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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xbe-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 11:49:31 -0000 SGkgQ2Fyc3RlbiwgYWxsLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHdvcmtpbmcgdGhyb3VnaCBteSBjb21tZW50 cywgeW91ciB1cGRhdGVzIGxvb2sgZ29vZCwgdGhlIG9ubHkgdHdvIGRpc2N1c3MgcG9pbnRzIHRo YXQgSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHdlIG1heSBuZWVkIGZ1cnRoZXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvbiByZWxhdGUg dG8gYXNzaWduaW5nIFNJRHMgdG8gZmVhdHVyZXMsIGFuZCBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGFyaXNpbmcgZnJv bSB0aGUgbm9ybWF0aXZlIHJlZmVyZW5jZS4NCg0KV2hpbHN0IGNoZWNraW5nIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2Vz IChiZXR3ZWVuIC0xNiBhbmQgLTE4KSwgSSBkaWQgbm90aWNlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHRoaW5ncyB0 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Cg0KPiANCj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rlbg0KDQo= From nobody Wed Jan 5 08:09:02 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4532F3A0DC9; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 08:08:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0EsTHmTuDgj; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 08:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A523C3A0DD1; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 08:08:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JTZD14MLPzDCbw; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 17:08:49 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 17:08:49 +0100 Cc: "draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor@ietf.org" , "core-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "core@ietf.org" , Marco Tiloca X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 663091729.175819-c3a9e57faaae8550abfc489eb8cd142c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <162635612227.22030.13513408024494659570@ietfa.amsl.com> <096F7FFB-21FA-49A9-BFA3-FA6A5A6B4ECD@tzi.org> To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 16:08:56 -0000 Hi Rob, thank you for this quick response! >=20 > (1) Section 3.2: >=20 > Where absolute SIDs = are=09 > desired in map key positions where a bare integer implies a = delta,=09 > they may be encoded using CBOR tag 47 (as defined in Section = 9.3). >=20 > Just to check, is may rather than MUST correct here? I.e., if you = want to use an absolute SID where a delta is expected then it must use = CBOR tag 47, or otherwise the receiver would not know it is an absolute = SID? The use of absolute SID values as map keys indeed requires the use of = tag 47; the choice is only whether to actually opt for absolute SIDs or = to keep with the (untagged) normal deltas. The sentence you cited was intended as text leading in to a = cross-reference, not a normative statement. =20 However, that normative statement isn=E2=80=99t fully contained in = Section 9.3, which just defines the CBOR tag, but somewhat smeared over = 4.2.1 and the example in 4.5.1 (of all places). So it seems that some editorial surgery would be beneficial here, making = sure that the definition how to use tag 47 and an example for that is in = a form that can be referenced here (and, to reduce may/MAY confusion, we = probably should substitute =E2=80=9Ccan=E2=80=9D). Now: https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/issues/137 > (2)=20 > * application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid -- for use by = applications that=09 > need to be frugal with encoding space and text string = processing=09 > (e.g., applications running on constrained nodes = [RFC7228], or=09 > applications with particular performance requirements);=09 > =09 > * application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname -- for use by = applications=09 > that do not want to engage in SID management, and that = have ample=09 > resources to manage text-string based item identifiers = (e.g.,=09 > applications that directly want to substitute application/=09= > yang.data+json with a more efficient representation = without any=09 > other changes); >=20 > I think that it is fairly obvious from their names, but the = definitions don't technically restrict what type of ids are used in the = content. Should they be more explicit on this? The intention was to say this in paragraph 2 of Section 7 =E2=80=94 the = cited text is just the summary of this section. We could repeat the = salient parts in the summary, but that has the usual risk of stating the = same thing twice in subtly different ways. > (3) Related to 2, I did wonder if the document could possible be = clearer about what is allowed when mixing name and sids, perhaps as an = extra sentence in the third paragraph of section 3? As I understand it, = barring the media-type, anything goes, e.g., a container or list entry = could contain some entries encoded with name ids and some with sids, = e.g., which could be required if handling an augmented module that = doesn't have sids allocated. Indeed, the intention is for the mechanism to be permissive =E2=80=94 I = think that styles/policies on how to best use the mechanism in hybrid = scenarios will need to evolve before we can write them up (possibly = becoming part of an RFC-8407-like document at some point). [Skipping items where no further work seems to be necessary:] >>> 4. How does the CBOR encoding of SIDs apply to YANG features? This = draft >>> references features and the SID draft allows SIDs for them, but I = don't >>> understand how they are used in the encoding (since features don't = appear >> in >>> the instance data, they are only at the schema level). >>=20 >> YANG features can occur in the data of a YANG module, e.g., = yang-library >> (RFC 8525). Using a SID instead of an identifier for a feature = allows a >> compact representation. >=20 > I'm still not really understanding how this would work. >=20 > The YANG library data carries the feature as a "yang:yang-identifier", = which has a string as its base type. >=20 > So, unless there was some special handling either for the 'feature' = leaf-list in YANG library, or for the encoding of "yang:yang-identifier" = to allow the use of SIDs, I think that this would naturally just end up = using a string encoding of the feature name (along with all other = yang:yang-identifiers). >=20 > I can see that allocating SIDs to features does no harm, but I still = don't currently see how they can be used. We didn=E2=80=99t want to put in examples showing good ways of using = these feature SIDs, again for mechanism/policy reasons. However, an example usage can be found in Page 8 of core-yang-library: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-03#page= -8 grouping implementation-parameters { description "Parameters for describing the implementation of a module."; leaf-list feature { type sid:sid; description "List of all YANG feature names from this module that are [=E2=80=A6] So a YANG module needs to make use of sid:sid explicitly in order to = make use of SIDs for features. Enabling the use of SIDs automatically in the encoding of any SID-naive = usage of yang:yang-identifier could widen the field of application. = However, as you note, at the base type level these are just YANG = strings, so we would need a mechanism such as a CBOR tag that can be = used in place of text strings anywhere in the encoding. This would seem = to be a rather invasive mechanism, for a somewhat limited gain. Simply allocating SIDs for YANG features costs nearly nothing, and = enables the above optimization in a module that will often be used in an = id=3Dsid environment. >>> 5. I also support Ben's second discuss point. I think that as = written, this >>> draft needs a normative reference to the SID draft. >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t necessarily agree, but this is an easy change without = negative >> consequences. >=20 > Okay, I can probably see where you are coming from, in that the = intention is that the SID draft just defines a file format and = allocation strategy, but the core definition of a SID is contained in = the CBOR draft. >=20 > The SID draft constraints SIDs to being 63 bits. Should that = text/constraint move to the CBOR draft instead? Strictly speaking, the YANG-CBOR specification does not have to make = this constraint; deltas from 64-bit unsigned integers do fit into CBOR = 64-bit+sign integers. However, given little compiler support for = 64+sign, implementers are rather likely to get this wrong. More so, as = the usual source of SIDs to be used with YANG-CBOR is constrained to = 63-bit integers, as you note, so there will be little testing of SID = deltas that don=E2=80=99t fit into int64. We can defuse this situation, with no practical loss, by insisting on = 63-bit unsigned integers (0..9223372036854775807) for the SIDs in the = YANG-CBOR specification, as well. Now https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/issues/138 [Thank you for the affirmative comments on our responses to the = COMMENTs.] Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jan 5 09:14:36 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671DC3A11F5; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:14:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=axK4qkfT; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=fCSsqnhn 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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xbe-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 17:14:34 -0000 SGkgQ2Fyc3RlbiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgYW5zd2VycywgcGxlYXNlIHNlZSBmdXJ0aGVy IGNvbW1lbnRzIGlubGluZSAuLi4NCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBG cm9tOiBpZXNnIDxpZXNnLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBDYXJzdGVuIEJv cm1hbm4NCj4gU2VudDogMDUgSmFudWFyeSAyMDIyIDE2OjA5DQo+IFRvOiBSb2IgV2lsdG9uIChy d2lsdG9uKSA8cndpbHRvbkBjaXNjby5jb20+DQo+IENjOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNvcmUteWFuZy1j Ym9yQGlldGYub3JnOyBjb3JlLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgVGhlIElFU0cNCj4gPGllc2dAaWV0 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ZW50cyBvbiBvdXIgcmVzcG9uc2VzIHRvIHRoZQ0KPiBDT01NRU5Ucy5dDQo+IA0KPiBHcsO8w59l LCBDYXJzdGVuDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Jan 5 09:15:51 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C873A11F6; Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:15:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor@ietf.org, core-chairs@ietf.org, core@ietf.org, Carsten Bormann , marco.tiloca@ri.se, marco.tiloca@ri.se X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.41.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <164140295011.13062.1490147306753983785@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 09:15:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Robert Wilton's Yes on draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-18: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 17:15:50 -0000 Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-18: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/blog/handling-iesg-ballot-positions/ for more information about how to handle DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discuss cleared, thanks for accommodating my comments. 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X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:36:55 -0000 --xalrdL3pWrr2M3js6ee5BMOlpfZnY1n9a Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Sc3Db3UVI4KtNfpYnTN5Ef8AesyrLNOOe"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Carsten Bormann , "Apple Inc." Cc: "t2trg@irtf.org" , "core@ietf.org" Message-ID: <9cd833fa-df93-1273-4dd8-f164217b9f5d@ri.se> Subject: Re: [T2TRG] [core] Quick Doodle T2TRG security topics (Re: New topic for T2TRG?) References: <97ED3090-7BBA-4ED8-B50B-26C5AC863EB5@tzi.org> <8CDC234A-7F52-4571-8CCA-0D5F59A84DB6@tzi.org> <5B94533C-55C8-4DD8-BB57-29E96880A951@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: --Sc3Db3UVI4KtNfpYnTN5Ef8AesyrLNOOe Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------60F461B5FE72025DFF5F0D56" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------60F461B5FE72025DFF5F0D56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Building on the suggested structure from Carsten, please find below my=20 input for tomorrow's discussion. Best, /Marco [Short-term] * Distribution of FW update using group communication --- Relation with SUIT --- Actual FW image distribution with multicast messages --- Different key provisioning methods to enable different encryption of = FW image * Indication of alternative transports for CoAP --- Security context propagation; OSCORE interaction [Mid-term] * Pub-Sub for CoAP --- Sanity-check of CoRE draft, and its relation with the ACE pub-sub=20 profile --- Facilitate progress and writing of security considerations --- Elaborate/explore on availability, confidentiality, integrity,=20 provenance * Pedagogical overview of secure group communication based on multicast --- Available technologies and how they relate/interact also from a=20 lifecycle point-of-view --- Material for a "technology survey" giving the big picture (worth an=20 Informational Internet Draft ?) * Key update for OSCORE --- With or without Perfect Forward Secrecy; survival of observations;=20 update of identifiers; application-specific considerations affecting key = usage limits --- Relevant also to 6TiSCH and LwM2M, as alternative to OSCORE Appendix = B.2 * Non-traditional responses --- Including also multicast notifications and non-notification=20 responses over multicast --- How they can be protected * Nested OSCORE protection --- Raise awareness of ongoing work --- Use cases include LwM2M when also using OSCORE with an external=20 Application Server --- Multiple nesting as building block towards hiding clients [Long-term] * Any security clarifications on CoRE-related topics --- Some are in the CoAP-FAQ of the CoRE wiki --- This can be material for the Corrclar document * Self description and trusted assertion on security properties of=20 devices and their resources On 2021-12-21 18:17, Carsten Bormann wrote: > So we had the first hour of discussion, and it was interesting to see h= ow many areas of potential work we could actually make out beyond what I = had prepared. See notes referenced below. > > We decided we would spend some time individually, grouping the activiti= es listed (and our favorite additions) into > > =E2=80=94 short term (do now) > =E2=80=94 mid term (examine and turn into one or more short-term items = during year 2022) > =E2=80=94 long term (same, but really with a longer outlook and some =E2= =80=9Cfreezer=E2=80=9D semantics for now). > > So we=E2=80=99ll try to have a few short emails (=E2=80=9Cdocuments=E2=80= =9D) out with this by Monday, 2022-01-10, and meet again 2022-01-11 at 16= 00Z again to merge and make this more concrete. > > An actual work meeting, with prepared discussion points (=E2=80=9Cprese= ntations=E2=80=9D, but really mostly for discussion), would then be next.= > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > >> On 2021-12-21, at 16:24, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> >> Some initial slides at >> >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftzi= =2Ede%2F~cabo%2Ft2trg-chat-2021-12-21.pdf&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tilo= ca%40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc= 40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w= LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D= wQBOnCHQPlvPFL0EqL%2Fswb1PZ1Ubp%2B1OPqwZO3E6VkY%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> We will collect notes at >> >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fno= tes.ietf.org%2Fnotes-t2trg-chat-2021-12-21&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.til= oca%40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ec= c40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4= wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D= HfT8bRiYA61Gv9OqCQ0S3QVs930tZdZDA6vepNeTBHI%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> See you in 35 minutes=E2=80=A6 >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> >>> On 2021-12-21, at 11:26, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> >>>> I have put up 9 potential meeting slots this week: >>>> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F= doodle.com%2Fpoll%2F7e76k335hd6d28k3&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40= ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9= e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM= DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Dsoxd= 4zAu4MXN0dDvWXdGzAgsA%2Bzv3muiYNxXrL7Mrm8%3D&reserved=3D0 >>> The doodle was in favor of 1600Z today (1100 EST, 1700 CET, 1800 EET)= =2E >>> >>> Webex info: >>> >>> Meeting link: >>> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi= etf.webex.com%2Fietf%2Fj.php%3FMTID%3Dmd00b3797e6b5d123cd2689f53b076f11&a= mp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d6= 4e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnkn= own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ= XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DW6DZPwMmYu8%2F5AMNgg7UXjI15VMKFl%2Fz18HixG= KAdCc%3D&reserved=3D0 >>> Meeting number: >>> 2428 335 7567 >>> Password: >>> constrained >>> >>> I hope to have an agenda prepared in a few hours. >>> As I said, this is going to be an informal chat in preparation of the= real work. >>> Talk to you then! >>> >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww= w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcore&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%= 40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40c= c9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA= wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DRC= 20p6T2mDgG99zMTdvGbUhOZWg1JN7bkkl6cRL6UV8%3D&reserved=3D0 > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= =2Eirtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ft2trg&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloc= a%40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc4= 0cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL= jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D= H024uZhd3y9ssFcAoEvCXjOrHz4L7AAxdOZh5sDQ3Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://www.ri.se Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --------------60F461B5FE72025DFF5F0D56 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Za= 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signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsB5BAABCAAjFiEEOEo4cV326Z7GypVg7iZktA5Y2kMFAmHcfKwFAwAAAAAACgkQ7iZktA5Y2kNO LAf/aDOhvRSZgYjUbTAyt6qc33ricqg79MLDgS5F+bZyi4XabbXzVRO3a/VxZEHXGNIxSzQNHu5i lxqPGDqqrZgd/8dp5ulgZUWwpoHmnizymoHRa9CgmQYguLFAph7+LVN9X40SC0Vh8rW5bnhSewu0 04i3790ezfREsqi4RZDXmJMHm5un9VyHr0dkawVXyUTyOv64fdnHgy0g97an2DBWNvsuqhtShwpG ial5a4rchM/uGszxsXLfIV7VvIxaRLJqc+bIJQmXv7MhXzdKyz5JBaQyqF4RfW5z2yDj92zA8RjT gYt84DD5yJ3MpsAmf2k8DB5+vR884veOdnfiSy5+9Q== =1fzH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xalrdL3pWrr2M3js6ee5BMOlpfZnY1n9a-- From nobody Tue Jan 11 01:14:43 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 498DA3A1F91; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 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=?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-core-os?= =?utf-8?q?core-groupcomm?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:20:40 -0000 --RARNhPY9c2Om8MWzH7u7yGnCcRoLQpI5Z Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="X7gLPhBQxnl4YnFV3xznQY1fU0FgEoshi"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: John Mattsson , =?UTF-8?Q?Jaime_Jim=c3=a9nez?= , "core@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org" Message-ID: <4db25351-0df5-73b7-1b4e-a1c9360e9a18@ri.se> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3a_=5bcore=5d_=f0=9f=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-?= =?UTF-8?Q?core-oscore-groupcomm?= References: In-Reply-To: --X7gLPhBQxnl4YnFV3xznQY1fU0FgEoshi Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3FA7492DB23072C9F60D85A6" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3FA7492DB23072C9F60D85A6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3F1862E483A40AD28D64F44E" --------------3F1862E483A40AD28D64F44E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, (speaking as a co-author) Following IETF 112, there is ongoing work on: - Further addressing the two open issues #28 and #29 from Christian. - Providing a number of examples, as requested by Jaime. This is tracked in the open PR #32 [1] that we plan to polish and=20 wrap-up soon. A new version including those updates should be ready for WG Last Call. Best, /Marco [1] https://github.com/core-wg/groupcomm-bis/pull/32 On 2022-01-11 11:00, John Mattsson wrote: > > Hi, > > What is the status and plan for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-bis? > > Part of Group OSCORE is a standard track security protocol for Group=20 > CoAP (which is currently informal). > > Group OSCORE cannot be published before Group CoAP is published as=20 > standard track. > > Cheers, > > John > > *From: *Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez > *Date: *Tuesday, 9 November 2021 at 20:00 > *To: *core@ietf.org > *Cc: *draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org=20 > , Marco Tiloca=20 > > *Subject: *[core] =F0=9F=94=94WG Last Call of draft-ietf-core-oscore-gr= oupcomm > > Dear CoRE, > > as we discussed yesterday, the authors of=20 > draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm think their draft is ready for a 2nd=20 > WGLC. The current version of the draft (v13) is not expecting any=20 > updates so you can start your planned reviews. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-= 13=20 > > > In addition to the email list discussion reviewers could consider=20 > opening new issues on the Github repo of the draft as courtesy to the=20 > authors. > > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3Ddcda2ec9-8341178a-dcda6e52-861f= cb972bfc-8e063595a4e5b0bc&q=3D1&e=3D455997d8-6697-4e3e-ab2b-8c5c8ef8bb2d&= u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcore-wg%2Foscore-groupcomm=20 > > > As we have the IETF ongoing and the document needs time to be=20 > digested, we place the end of the call on the 1st of December with a=20 > possibility of extension depending on the number of reviews. > > >From the minutes I take that CA, RH, ED and TF would give it thorough = > look. Thank you already for that, much appreciated!! > > Ciao! > --=20 > Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez > --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://www.ri.se Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --------------3F1862E483A40AD28D64F44E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John,

(speaking as a co-author)

Following IETF 112, there is ongoing work on:

- Further addressing the two open issues #28 and #29 from Christian.<= br> - Providing a number of examples, as requested by Jaime.

This is tracked in the open PR #32 [1] that we plan to polish and wrap-up soon.

A new version including those updates should be ready for WG Last Call.

Best,
/Marco

[1] https://github.com/core-wg/groupcomm-bis/pull= /32

On 2022-01-11 11:00, John Mattsson wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

What is the status and plan for draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-bis?

=C2=A0

Part of Group OSCORE is a standard track security protocol for Group CoAP (which is currently informal).

=C2=A0

Group OSCORE cannot be published before Group CoAP is published as standard track.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

John

=C2= =A0

From: <= span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez <jaime@iki.fi>
Date: Tuesday, 9 November 2021 at 20:00
To: core@ietf.org <core@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-core-o= score-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org <draft-ietf-core-oscore-grou= pcomm.authors@ietf.org>, Marco Tiloca <marco.tiloca@ri.se>
Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm

Dear CoRE,

as we discussed yesterday, the authors of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm think their draft is ready for a 2nd WGLC. The current version of the draft (v13) is not expecting any updates so you can start your planned reviews.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /html/draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-13

In addition to the email list discussion reviewers could consider opening new issues on the Github repo of the draft as courtesy to the authors.

https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/= url?k=3Ddcda2ec9-8341178a-dcda6e52-861fcb972bfc-8e063595a4e5b0bc&q=3D= 1&e=3D455997d8-6697-4e3e-ab2b-8c5c8ef8bb2d&u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgith= ub.com%2Fcore-wg%2Foscore-groupcomm

As we have the IETF ongoing and the document needs time to be digested, we place the end of the call on the 1st of December with a possibility of extension depending on the number of reviews.

>From the minutes I take that CA, RH, ED and TF would give it thorough look. Thank you already for that, much appreciated!!

Ciao!
--
Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez


--=20
Marco Tiloca
Ph.D., Senior Researcher

Division: Digital System
Department: Computer Science
Unit: Cybersecurity

RISE Research Institutes of Sweden
https://www=
=2Eri.se

Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501
Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16
SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden)
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SIGNATURE----- --RARNhPY9c2Om8MWzH7u7yGnCcRoLQpI5Z-- From nobody Tue Jan 11 06:26:22 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380F63A1276 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:26:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4IOi9_OhJZS for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDEA03A1274 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JYCfk4jmjzDCjp; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:26:06 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:26:06 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 663603966.305539-f011e0063c5cc684f2eb1252d1fd50c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <97ED3090-7BBA-4ED8-B50B-26C5AC863EB5@tzi.org> <8CDC234A-7F52-4571-8CCA-0D5F59A84DB6@tzi.org> <5B94533C-55C8-4DD8-BB57-29E96880A951@tzi.org> To: "t2trg@irtf.org" , "core@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Quick Doodle T2TRG security topics (Re: [T2TRG] New topic for T2TRG?) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:26:16 -0000 On 2021-12-21, at 18:17, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > So we=E2=80=99ll try to have a few short emails (=E2=80=9Cdocuments=E2=80= =9D) out with this by Monday, 2022-01-10, and meet again 2022-01-11 at = 1600Z again to merge and make this more concrete. For those who want to join this chat, the Webex information: T2TRG security topics 16:00 - 17:00 Tuesday, 11 Jan 2022 (UTC+00:00) Reykjavik Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm1fe31895b69dbf3669b4976b6b61d723= Meeting number: 2437 371 0612 Password: constrained We=E2=80=99ll take notes at: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-t2trg-chat-2022-01-11 You can edit the proposed agenda there. Let=E2=80=99s talk in ~ 90 minutes... 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boundary="_000_AM4PR0701MB2195A73EAB79AD50CC6042F4F4519AM4PR0701MB2195_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM4PR0701MB2195.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d3b56565-1df0-414f-5470-08d9d51a92cd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jan 2022 15:53:55.7494 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vxvEsfUt9824c0nfevIBjxEV5KXDsLR96KH9NaJEBARTBvpogjfTxbVG2BB3Sqlvb3lGlVneiewSNzhfzRbdmloxBQeV8CB2v1B8k0zLe6k= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4449 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] [T2TRG] Quick Doodle T2TRG security topics (Re: New topic for T2TRG?) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:54:11 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0701MB2195A73EAB79AD50CC6042F4F4519AM4PR0701MB2195_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Marco and all, Thanks for taking a stab at structuring detailed topics! I was only missing= the authority-related topic, which is probably mid-term, more below. My ma= in comment, however, is that at the current stage of the discussion it woul= d perhaps be good if the topics should were formulated even more in terms o= f "problem statements" or "goals". For some topics and some people the unde= rlying problem may be more clear than for others. I'm not sure I understand= all topics listed below . . . :-) Perhaps we could add a high level description, for example * efficient distribution of firmware updates to a large group of devices ..= . * efficient secure communications between one endpoint other nodes in a con= nection over multiple proxies ... * status of IETF standardization of secure group communication in constrain= ed RESTful environments ... * ways to represent and execute authority in constrained IoT settings with = multiple stakeholders ... ... Not saying this maps 1-1 to the different topics, nor that the previous for= mulation did a bad job explaining the topic, but perhaps a starting point t= o allow for a wider discussion? Another topic I would like to raise is ways of working. One idea behind thi= s activity was to allow for an open discussion of security related topics i= n the constrained RESTful IoT setting. Such a discussion exists in IETF WGs= but is driven by progressing the the drafts in the scope of the charter, a= nd much of the new work has been a result of breakout sessions and IETF hal= lway (lunch) discussions. With this in mind, I think we should not have all= meetings filled with presentations of solutions, but also allow for more h= alf-baked thoughts, provided - again - that there is a problem statement/go= al that is understood and matches the scope. But the best way to find our feet is probably just pick a topic and get sta= rted :-) My 2 cents. Talk soon! G=F6ran On 2022-01-10, 19:37, "Marco Tiloca" wrote: Hi all, Building on the suggested structure from Carsten, please find below my input for tomorrow's discussion. Best, /Marco [Short-term] * Distribution of FW update using group communication --- Relation with SUIT --- Actual FW image distribution with multicast messages --- Different key provisioning methods to enable different encryption of FW image * Indication of alternative transports for CoAP --- Security context propagation; OSCORE interaction [Mid-term] * Pub-Sub for CoAP --- Sanity-check of CoRE draft, and its relation with the ACE pub-sub profile --- Facilitate progress and writing of security considerations --- Elaborate/explore on availability, confidentiality, integrity, provenance * Pedagogical overview of secure group communication based on multicast --- Available technologies and how they relate/interact also from a lifecycle point-of-view --- Material for a "technology survey" giving the big picture (worth an Informational Internet Draft ?) * Key update for OSCORE --- With or without Perfect Forward Secrecy; survival of observations; update of identifiers; application-specific considerations affecting key usage limits --- Relevant also to 6TiSCH and LwM2M, as alternative to OSCORE Appendix B.= 2 * Non-traditional responses --- Including also multicast notifications and non-notification responses over multicast --- How they can be protected * Nested OSCORE protection --- Raise awareness of ongoing work --- Use cases include LwM2M when also using OSCORE with an external Application Server --- Multiple nesting as building block towards hiding clients [Long-term] * Any security clarifications on CoRE-related topics --- Some are in the CoAP-FAQ of the CoRE wiki --- This can be material for the Corrclar document * Self description and trusted assertion on security properties of devices and their resources On 2021-12-21 18:17, Carsten Bormann wrote: > So we had the first hour of discussion, and it was interesting to see how= many areas of potential work we could actually make out beyond what I had = prepared. See notes referenced below. > > We decided we would spend some time individually, grouping the activities= listed (and our favorite additions) into > > =97 short term (do now) > =97 mid term (examine and turn into one or more short-term items during y= ear 2022) > =97 long term (same, but really with a longer outlook and some =93freezer= =94 semantics for now). > > So we=92ll try to have a few short emails (=93documents=94) out with this= by Monday, 2022-01-10, and meet again 2022-01-11 at 1600Z again to merge a= nd make this more concrete. > > An actual work meeting, with prepared discussion points (=93presentations= =94, but really mostly for discussion), would then be next. > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > >> On 2021-12-21, at 16:24, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >> >> Some initial slides at >> >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftzi.d= e%2F~cabo%2Ft2trg-chat-2021-12-21.pdf&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40r= i.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%= 7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC= JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DwQBOnCHQPlv= PFL0EqL%2Fswb1PZ1Ubp%2B1OPqwZO3E6VkY%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> We will collect notes at >> >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnote= s.ietf.org%2Fnotes-t2trg-chat-2021-12-21&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%= 40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9= e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA= iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DHfT8bRiY= A61Gv9OqCQ0S3QVs930tZdZDA6vepNeTBHI%3D&reserved=3D0 >> >> See you in 35 minutes=85 >> >> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >> >> >>> On 2021-12-21, at 11:26, Carsten Bormann > wrote: >>> >>>> I have put up 9 potential meeting slots this week: >>>> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdo= odle.com%2Fpoll%2F7e76k335hd6d28k3&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri.s= e%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0= %7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI= joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Dsoxd4zAu4MXN0d= DvWXdGzAgsA%2Bzv3muiYNxXrL7Mrm8%3D&reserved=3D0 >>> The doodle was in favor of 1600Z today (1100 EST, 1700 CET, 1800 EET). >>> >>> Webex info: >>> >>> Meeting link: >>> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fiet= f.webex.com%2Fietf%2Fj.php%3FMTID%3Dmd00b3797e6b5d123cd2689f53b076f11&d= ata=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri.se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5= a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTW= FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3= D%7C3000&sdata=3DW6DZPwMmYu8%2F5AMNgg7UXjI15VMKFl%2Fz18HixGKAdCc%3D&= ;reserved=3D0 >>> Meeting number: >>> 2428 335 7567 >>> Password: >>> constrained >>> >>> I hope to have an agenda prepared in a few hours. >>> As I said, this is going to be an informal chat in preparation of the r= eal work. >>> Talk to you then! >>> >>> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.= ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcore&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri= .se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7= C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ= QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DRC20p6T2mDgG= 99zMTdvGbUhOZWg1JN7bkkl6cRL6UV8%3D&reserved=3D0 > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= rtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ft2trg&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri= .se%7C9806e72b2dd54b47d99908d9c4a5d64e%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7= C0%7C0%7C637757039703600342%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ= QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DH024uZhd3y9s= sFcAoEvCXjOrHz4L7AAxdOZh5sDQ3Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 -- Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3D31323334-501d5122-313273af-45444555= 5731-3d296ae5721cac2b&q=3D1&e=3D634c9d10-c880-4637-a41e-44d9fb24ac16&u=3Dht= tps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ri.se%2F Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=E5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --_000_AM4PR0701MB2195A73EAB79AD50CC6042F4F4519AM4PR0701MB2195_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Marco and all,

 

Thanks for taking a stab at structuring detailed topics! I was only m= issing the authority-related topic, which is probably mid-term, more below.= My main comment, however, is that at the current stage of the discussion it would perhaps be good if the topics= should were formulated even more in terms of "problem statements"= ; or "goals". For some topics and some people the underlying prob= lem may be more clear than for others. I'm not sure I understand all topics listed below . . . :-)

 

Perhaps we could add a high level description, for example=

* efficient distribution of firmware updates to a large group of devi= ces ...

* efficient secure communications between one endpoint other nodes in= a connection over multiple proxies ...

* status of IETF standardization of secure group communication in con= strained RESTful environments ...

* ways to represent and execute authority in constrained IoT settings= with multiple stakeholders ...

...

 

Not saying this maps 1-1 to the different topics, nor that the previo= us formulation did a bad job explaining the topic, but perhaps a starting p= oint to allow for a wider discussion?

 

Another topic I would like to raise is ways of working. One idea behi= nd this activity was to allow for an open discussion of security related to= pics in the constrained RESTful IoT setting. Such a discussion exists in IETF WGs but is driven by progressing the the = drafts in the scope of the charter, and much of the new work has been a res= ult of breakout sessions and IETF hallway (lunch) discussions. With this in= mind, I think we should not have all meetings filled with presentations of solutions, but also allow for mo= re half-baked thoughts, provided - again - that there is a problem statemen= t/goal that is understood and matches the scope.

 

But the best way to find our feet is probably just pick a topic and g= et started :-)

 

My 2 cents.

 

Talk soon!

G=F6ran

 

 

On 2022-01-10, 19:37,= "Marco Tiloca" <marco.tiloca@ri.se> wrote:

Hi all,

 

Building on the suggested structure from Carsten, pl= ease find below my

input for tomorrow's discussion.

 

Best,

/Marco

 

 

[Short-term]

 

* Distribution of FW update using group communicatio= n

--- Relation with SUIT

--- Actual FW image distribution with multicast mess= ages

--- Different key provisioning methods to enable dif= ferent encryption of

FW image

 

* Indication of alternative transports for CoAP

--- Security context propagation; OSCORE interaction=

 

 

[Mid-term]

 

* Pub-Sub for CoAP

--- Sanity-check of CoRE draft, and its relation wit= h the ACE pub-sub

profile

--- Facilitate progress and writing of security cons= iderations

--- Elaborate/explore on availability, confidentiali= ty, integrity,

provenance

 

* Pedagogical overview of secure group communication= based on multicast

--- Available technologies and how they relate/inter= act also from a

lifecycle point-of-view

--- Material for a "technology survey" giv= ing the big picture (worth an

Informational Internet Draft ?)

 

* Key update for OSCORE

--- With or without Perfect Forward Secrecy; surviva= l of observations;

update of identifiers; application-specific consider= ations affecting key

usage limits

--- Relevant also to 6TiSCH and LwM2M, as alternativ= e to OSCORE Appendix B.2

 

* Non-traditional responses

--- Including also multicast notifications and non-n= otification

responses over multicast

--- How they can be protected

 

* Nested OSCORE protection

--- Raise awareness of ongoing work

--- Use cases include LwM2M when also using OSCORE w= ith an external

Application Server

--- Multiple nesting as building block towards hidin= g clients

 

 

[Long-term]

 

* Any security clarifications on CoRE-related topics=

--- Some are in the CoAP-FAQ of the CoRE wiki

--- This can be material for the Corrclar document

 

* Self description and trusted assertion on security= properties of

devices and their resources

 

 

 

On 2021-12-21 18:17, Carsten Bormann wrote:

> So we had the first hour of discussion, and it = was interesting to see how many areas of potential work we could actually m= ake out beyond what I had prepared.  See notes referenced below.<= /p>

> 

> We decided we would spend some time individuall= y, grouping the activities listed (and our favorite additions) into

> 

> =97 short term (do now)

> =97 mid term (examine and turn into one or more= short-term items during year 2022)

> =97 long term (same, but really with a longer o= utlook and some =93freezer=94 semantics for now).

> 

> So we=92ll try to have a few short emails (=93d= ocuments=94) out with this by Monday, 2022-01-10, and meet again 2022-01-11= at 1600Z again to merge and make this more concrete.

> 

> An actual work meeting, with prepared discussio= n points (=93presentations=94, but really mostly for discussion), would the= n be next.

> 

> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

> 

> 

>> On 2021-12-21, at 16:24, Carsten Bormann &l= t;cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

>> 

>> Some initial slides at

>> 

>> 

>> We will collect notes at

>> 

>> 

>> See you in 35 minutes=85

>> 

>> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

>> 

>> 

>>> On 2021-12-21, at 11:26, Carsten Borman= n <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

>>> 

>>>> I have put up 9 potential meeting s= lots this week:

>>> The doodle was in favor of 1600Z today = (1100 EST, 1700 CET, 1800 EET).

>>> 

>>> Webex info:

>>> 

>>> Meeting link:

>>> Meeting number:

>>> 2428 335 7567

>>> Password:

>>> constrained

>>> 

>>> I hope to have an agenda prepared in a = few hours.

>>> As I said, this is going to be an infor= mal chat in preparation of the real work.

>>> Talk to you then!

>>> 

>>> Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

>>> 

>> ___________________________________________= ____

>> core mailing list

> _______________________________________________=

> T2TRG mailing list

 

--

Marco Tiloca

Ph.D., Senior Researcher

 

Division: Digital System

Department: Computer Science

Unit: Cybersecurity

 

RISE Research Institutes of Sweden

 

Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501

Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=E5ngen 16

SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden)

 

 

 

--_000_AM4PR0701MB2195A73EAB79AD50CC6042F4F4519AM4PR0701MB2195_-- From nobody Tue Jan 11 09:14:08 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57FF3A0826 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:14:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O7cEeiRylSAq for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B4523A082F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JYHNH3YGMzDCv5; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:13:51 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:13:51 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 663614030.8071671-9711feaae4920d34011a01b1a5882c7b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8B2F401D-950E-485F-94F9-A74B4606EEB2@tzi.org> References: <97ED3090-7BBA-4ED8-B50B-26C5AC863EB5@tzi.org> <8CDC234A-7F52-4571-8CCA-0D5F59A84DB6@tzi.org> <5B94533C-55C8-4DD8-BB57-29E96880A951@tzi.org> To: "t2trg@irtf.org" , "core@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Quick Doodle T2TRG security topics (Re: [T2TRG] New topic for T2TRG?) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 17:14:02 -0000 On 2022-01-11, at 15:26, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > https://notes.ietf.org/notes-t2trg-chat-2022-01-11 We chatted for a bit more than an hour and came out with a set of items = to work on up to the next chat on 2022-02-01 1600Z. Please see the notes for details. 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=?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-core-os?= =?utf-8?q?core-groupcomm_/_review_part_2?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:15:26 -0000 --u5cIYSBAvl0wdmo3M5p7ai511WgHKjLVY Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="agHi9kj23jgpu4ZFY95NE7kYBFJfmJmG3"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Esko Dijk , =?UTF-8?Q?Jaime_Jim=c3=a9nez?= , "core@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3a_=5bcore=5d_=f0=9f=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-?= =?UTF-8?Q?core-oscore-groupcomm_/_review_part_2?= References: In-Reply-To: --agHi9kj23jgpu4ZFY95NE7kYBFJfmJmG3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------99D23E5255264BA579C28211" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------99D23E5255264BA579C28211 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Esko, Thanks a lot for your review and comments! I've just addressed the editorial points from this mail (see the commit=20 at [1]), and will soon start processing your first mail as well. Please, see below my detailed replies. Best, /Marco [1]=20 https://github.com/core-wg/oscore-groupcomm/commit/5b489dcdd4733ae8251cd9= 2ec79a4969cece85bc On 2022-01-12 09:14, Esko Dijk wrote: > Hi, > > This mail is part 2 of my review including the editorial/textual/nit co= mments. > > Best regards > Esko > > --- > > 2 > "for executing the Group OSCORE protocol (see Section 1.1)." > -> the reference probably needs updating; section 1 defines and explain= s Group OSCORE security protocol way more than section 1.1 does. =3D=3D>MT The reference was in fact intended to Section 1.1 "Terminology", as=20 related to the use of the word "group". The exact spot where the=20 reference is included probably created confusion. I have rephrased as follows: "As per the terminology in Section 1.1, this document refers to a group=20 as a set of endpoints sharing keying material and security parameters=20 for executing the Group OSCORE protocol." <=3D=3D > > 2.4.1 > "Sender Pub Key" and "Recipient Pub Key" items are not defined in the b= ullet list. > > Is "Sender Pub Key" and "Sender Key" the same key? If so, should we giv= e it the same name? If not, they need to be separately defined. > Same question for "Recipient Pub Key" and "Recipient Key". =3D=3D>MT Good point. "Sender Pub Key" and "Sender Key" are definitely not the=20 same key (and the same holds for "Recipient Pub Key" and "Recipient Key")= =2E "Sender Key" and "Recipient Key" are inherited from OSCORE (RFC 8613)=20 and thus are not re-defined in Section 2. I have made the following fixes: * s/other endpoint in the group/other endpoint X in the group * In the bullet point about IKM-Sender Recipient, s/derivation of the=20 Recipient Sender Key/derivation of the Pairwise Recipient Key =2E.. and revised and reordered the following bullet points as below.=20 These fit between the bullet points "The Recipient Key ..." and "info=20 and L ..." * The Sender Pub Key is the endpoint's own (signature) public key from=20 the Sender Context. * The Recipient Pub Key is the endpoint X's (signature) public key from=20 the Recipient Context associated to the endpoint X. * The Shared Secret is computed as a cofactor Diffie-Hellman shared=20 secret, see Section 5.7.1.2 of [NIST-800-56A], using the Pairwise Key=20 Agreement Algorithm. The endpoint uses its private key from the Sender=20 Context and the Recipient Pub Key. Note the requirement of validation of = public keys in Section 11.15. For X25519 and X448, the procedure is=20 described in Section 5 of [RFC7748] using public keys mapped to=20 Montgomery coordinates, see Section 2.4.2. * IKM-Sender is the Input Keying Material (IKM) used in the HKDF for the = derivation of the Pairwise Sender Key. IKM-Sender is the byte string=20 concatenation of the Sender Pub Key, the Recipient Pub Key, and the=20 Shared Secret. The Sender Pub Key and the Recipient Pub Key are binary=20 encoded as defined in Section 2.3. * IKM-Recipient is the Input Keying Material (IKM) used in the HKDF for=20 the derivation of the Pairwise Recipient Key. IKM-Recipient is the byte=20 string concatenation of the Recipient Pub Key, the Sender Pub Key, and=20 the Shared Secret. The Recipient Pub Key and the Sender Pub Key are=20 binary encoded as defined in Section 2.3. <=3D=3D > > > 2.5.3.2. > Grammar nit: "it resets to 0 ....." -> "it resets ..... to 0" =3D=3D>MT Fixed. Now it reads: "It resets its Sender Sequence Number in its Sender Context to 0." <=3D=3D > > 3 > "compiled together" -> "compiled" (I think the verb already indicates= multiple elements are being taken together) =3D=3D>MT Rephrased as: The list of responsibilities of the Group Manager is compiled in Section = 3.3. <=3D=3D > > 3.2 > Following sentence is somewhat unclear; maybe split into 2 sentences, o= ne with the normative requirement and another detailing the cases for lea= ving the group. > > The Group Manager MUST rekey the group when one or more currently > present endpoints leave the group, or in order to evict them as > compromised or suspected so. > E.g.: > The Group Manager MUST rekey the group when one or more endpoints leav= e the group. An endpoint may leave the group at own initiative, > or may be evicted from the group by the Group Manager e.g. in case an = endpoint is compromised, or is suspected to be compromised. =3D=3D>MT Thanks, now rephrased as you proposed. <=3D=3D > > Grammar nit: "MUST increment by 1 the ...." -> "MUST increment the ....= by 1" =3D=3D>MT Rephrased as: "MUST increment the Key Generation Number for the group by 1." <=3D=3D > > 6.2 > There appears to be some minor duplication of description with 6.3. (Al= though the wording differs.) But not a big issue. =3D=3D>MT Ok. <=3D=3D > > 8 > Grammar nit: "perform possible retransmissions" -> "perform potential r= etransmissions" =3D=3D>MT Fixed. <=3D=3D > "in non-multicast environments" -> is "non-multicast transports" meant = here? E.g. "Confirmable group requests are acknowledged when sent over no= n-multicast transports" . =3D=3D>MT Yes, I've rephrased based on your suggestion. <=3D=3D > > 9.3 > grammar nit "what defined in Section 8.1.1 of this document holds." -> = "what is defined" =3D=3D>MT Fixed. <=3D=3D > > 9.6 > similar "is supported, what defined in" -> "what is defined in " =3D=3D>MT Fixed (and same in Sections 9.4 and 9.5). <=3D=3D > > 11.1 > Nit "the use of encryption ..." -> "the use of an encryption ..." > > 11.4 > "large-scale groups" -> why not just "large groups". Appendix E also us= es "large groups". > > 11.5 > "large scale groups" -> "large groups"? > > Appendix B > "fault tolerance multicast algorithm" -> "fault-tolerant multicast algo= rithm" =3D=3D>MT Fixed all the above points. <=3D=3D > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 20:00 > To: core@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of draft-ietf-core-oscore-gro= upcomm > > Dear CoRE, > > as we discussed yesterday, the authors of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupc= omm think their draft is ready for a 2nd WGLC. The current version of the= draft (v13) is not expecting any updates so you can start your planned r= eviews. > > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat= atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-13&= data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri.se%7C5f8c35d709ab443ccbfd08d9d5a397b9%= 7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637775721604150420%7CUnknown= %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC= I6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3D%2FzRyxsnZwzBCWKjjECQr6ltDF0XKfUJUQ22w7EYy%2B= 4k%3D&reserved=3D0 > > In addition to the email list discussion reviewers could consider openi= ng new issues on the Github repo of the draft as courtesy to the authors.= > > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit= hub.com%2Fcore-wg%2Foscore-groupcomm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40= ri.se%7C5f8c35d709ab443ccbfd08d9d5a397b9%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9= e8%7C0%7C0%7C637775721604150420%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM= DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3DVeUV= XIqPQX5LzHBLWkQ3n7q7%2Bv4mVWPO%2FCR7%2FP8hloQ%3D&reserved=3D0 > > As we have the IETF ongoing and the document needs time to be digested,= we place the end of the call on the 1st of December with a possibility o= f extension depending on the number of reviews. > > >From the minutes I take that CA, RH, ED and TF would give it thorough = look. Thank you already for that, much appreciated!! > > Ciao! --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://www.ri.se Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --------------99D23E5255264BA579C28211 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Za= RDP C4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt0G4Ck= Unq 5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0Kh1T4WUW6= NHf EWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+NrSetJlljT0QO= XrX 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9Qf+JMYVDQJdb3O3G8k/0F2qxIAdmkwPaEHnnlb8PiBazzCb6ubmz5bXzBA4GnrjzYDQyZs2Pqhy f63PocJjMeMgBdBGbLc8lmK1LownkNHkvzhzmvqALcBj6TB7am0oppAcBShZW8V+SdB32ySHQPRS ThkZPGX2Gn0F7JQ8YNTCztmohEqLcmsiu/+FlHktuBt1SSrRU40oxONJDn7Kgd6bjYistDxA91jf CUzBjTyn2TVf968yGQ/nV4HWHQoTPExFrS7XcaqFo3dssB4BUewRWa3W1hvRTksv91oDcEFBGXbn DIJA7CTHekpsmJjUYhXkZnU88pvriZUo+A6HgqeWUA== =h/Bp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u5cIYSBAvl0wdmo3M5p7ai511WgHKjLVY-- From nobody Wed Jan 12 06:12:40 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BB23A0EF4 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 06:12:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham 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Archived-At: Subject: [core] Data retrieval for a specific timeframe X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:12:39 -0000 --_000_DBBPR08MB5915DD624120968D0A320392FA529DBBPR08MB5915eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all Is there functionality defined somewhere to allow a CoAP client to ask a Co= AP server for data (e.g. temperature sensor) from a specific timeframe or f= rom a specific date? With SenML there is the possibility to encode this time series data but I h= aven't seen any definitions for requesting such data (e.g. as URI parameter= s). I am sure that the need for such functionality has come up before. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_DBBPR08MB5915DD624120968D0A320392FA529DBBPR08MB5915eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all

 

Is there functionality defined somewhere to allow a = CoAP client to ask a CoAP server for data (e.g. temperature sensor) from a = specific timeframe or from a specific date?

With SenML there is the possibility to encode this t= ime series data but I haven’t seen any definitions for requesting suc= h data (e.g. as URI parameters).

 

I am sure that the need for such functionality has c= ome up before.

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_DBBPR08MB5915DD624120968D0A320392FA529DBBPR08MB5915eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jan 12 06:19:55 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0267E3A0EB4 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 06:19:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vPrr0ZyOQokh for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 06:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D43A03A0E47 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 06:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JYqSw1ZmFzDCnm; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:19:44 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:19:43 +0100 Cc: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 663689983.7831711-30d0f79bd2adde1d0a50b3478641178b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <648DCDAA-8BC8-40F6-9455-A386CA1C5FDA@tzi.org> References: To: Hannes Tschofenig X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Data retrieval for a specific timeframe X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:19:54 -0000 > On 2022-01-12, at 15:12, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > Hi all > =20 > Is there functionality defined somewhere to allow a CoAP client to ask = a CoAP server for data (e.g. temperature sensor) from a specific = timeframe or from a specific date? > With SenML there is the possibility to encode this time series data = but I haven=E2=80=99t seen any definitions for requesting such data = (e.g. as URI parameters). > =20 > I am sure that the need for such functionality has come up before. This can be left to an application, but it certainly is a good idea to = have a standard vocabulary for that. This also could be combined with pagination. See also https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-t2trg-stp/ Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jan 12 08:51:18 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6753A1432 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:51:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=CsNf3TZk; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=CsNf3TZk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zuwrGMGjOL4E for ; 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Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:33:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <164208080333.21714.762249185394987908@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:33:23 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-conditional-attributes-01.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:33:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Conditional Attributes for Constrained RESTful Environments Authors : Michael Koster Alan Soloway Bilhanan Silverajan Filename : draft-ietf-core-conditional-attributes-01.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2022-01-13 Abstract: This specification defines Conditional Notification and Control Attributes that work with CoAP Observe (RFC7641). Editor note The git repository for the draft is found at https://github.com/core- wg/conditional-attributes/ The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-conditional-attributes/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-conditional-attributes-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-conditional-attributes-01 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Sat Jan 15 15:04:39 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F2F3A0EB5; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:04:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <164228787195.986.13109719532442901154@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:04:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-href-09.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 23:04:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Constrained Resource Identifiers Authors : Carsten Bormann Henk Birkholz Filename : draft-ietf-core-href-09.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2022-01-15 Abstract: The Constrained Resource Identifier (CRI) is a complement to the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) that serializes the URI components in Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) instead of a sequence of characters. This simplifies parsing, comparison and reference resolution in environments with severe limitations on processing power, code size, and memory size. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-href/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-core-href-09.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-href-09 Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts From nobody Sat Jan 15 15:14:48 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48EEA3A101A for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:14:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GhjsINyP3SdG for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4F853A1018 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JbvBk3ypkzDCbX; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:14:38 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <164228787195.986.13109719532442901154@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:14:38 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 663981278.165329-4d27ea33fc73fc79e94a64188238fced Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26536783-E1E2-4B6E-8D15-D4779BD509DB@tzi.org> References: <164228787195.986.13109719532442901154@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-href-09.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 23:14:46 -0000 In preparation for Wednesday=E2=80=99s interim, we have prepared another = update of draft-ietf-core-href. =46rom the Change Log [1]: >> Changes from -08 to -09 >>=20 >> * Identify more esoteric features with a CDDL ".feature". >>=20 >> * Clarify that well-formedness requires removing trailing nulls. >>=20 >> * Fragments can contain PET. >>=20 >> * Percent-encoded text in PET is treated as byte strings. >>=20 >> * URIs with an authority but a completely empty path (e.g., >> http://example.com): CRIs with an authority component no longer >> always produce at least a slash in the path component. >>=20 >> For generic schemes, the conversion of scheme://example.com to = a >> CRI is now possible because CRI produces a URI with an = authority >> not followed by a slash following the updated rules of >> Section 6.1. Schemes like http and coap do not distinguish >> between the empty path and the path containing a single slash = when >> an authority is set (as recommended in [RFC3986]). For these >> schemes, that equivalence allows implementations to convert the >> just-a-slash URI to a CRI with a zero length path array (which, >> however, when converted back, does not produce a slash after = the >> authority). >>=20 >> (Add an appendix "the small print" for more detailed discussion = of >> pesky corner cases like this.) Discussion before Wednesday is appreciated; in any case see you all = then! Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-core-href-09.html#appendix-B-2 > On 2022-01-16, at 00:04, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG = of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Constrained Resource Identifiers > Authors : Carsten Bormann > Henk Birkholz > Filename : draft-ietf-core-href-09.txt > Pages : 23 > Date : 2022-01-15 >=20 > Abstract: > The Constrained Resource Identifier (CRI) is a complement to the > Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) that serializes the URI components > in Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR) instead of a sequence > of characters. This simplifies parsing, comparison and reference > resolution in environments with severe limitations on processing > power, code size, and memory size. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-href/ >=20 > There is also an HTML version available at: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-core-href-09.html >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-href-09 From nobody Mon Jan 17 10:14:25 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127993A0B67 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 10:14:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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boundary="rV3xQMpZgMbEUmgpCqzE3uveJbL5NiGpo"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: <55a341ca-85d9-2406-d6e8-b03b3fae3d81@ri.se> Subject: [core] CoRE WG Virtual Interim 2022-01-19 --rV3xQMpZgMbEUmgpCqzE3uveJbL5NiGpo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2FD0A526FECD5F686F643E50" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2FD0A526FECD5F686F643E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Just a reminder that we will have a virtual interim meeting on=20 Wednesday, January 19th at 15:00 UTC. The agenda is available at [1]. The meeting will be on Meetecho [2] and minutes will be taken at [3]. Best, Marco and Jaime [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2022-core-01/session/cor= e [2]=20 https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=3Dae5982a9-e70c-4936-b0= 66-487e96dc93ab [3] https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2022-core-01-core --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://www.ri.se Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --------------2FD0A526FECD5F686F643E50 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Za= RDP C4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt0G4Ck= Unq 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=?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-core-os?= =?utf-8?q?core-groupcomm?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 11:05:58 -0000 --Wch1ttMfKAUQbywVcqOvQG3I15LSvHLN7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="igza4ugFQmxG0VWbS2OtdjjsWZmnJDUeN"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: Esko Dijk , =?UTF-8?Q?Jaime_Jim=c3=a9nez?= , "core@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org" Message-ID: <6591fcc6-5d2b-571b-7b93-cb06d623c3ba@ri.se> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3a_=5bcore=5d_=f0=9f=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_draft-ietf-?= =?UTF-8?Q?core-oscore-groupcomm?= References: In-Reply-To: --igza4ugFQmxG0VWbS2OtdjjsWZmnJDUeN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1474E8A213FC7BD0028D0C50" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1474E8A213FC7BD0028D0C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Esko, Thank you very much again for you review! Please, find detailed replies inline. Best, /Marco On 2022-01-11 10:14, Esko Dijk wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I completed my review of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm for this 2nd = last call. Below some points for discussion or clarification are listed. = In another email today or tomorrow I'll send the editorial/textual/nit co= mments. > Overall my impression of the draft is good; there has been much attenti= on to detail and guidance for the readers/implementers. Also its scope is= set to support as many variations as possible (e.g. with/without pairwis= e mode, group mode, with/without Observe, Blockwise, supporting observati= on across rekeying events, etc.). The downside of that is that the spec = becomes complex at particular places to support all of that at the same t= ime, securely. Maybe implementers will therefore consider to implement a = subset only to avoid some of the complexity; which should be ok. > > Best regards > Esko > > --- > > 1 > "in order to protect the routing information of packets from observers"= > -> this feels counter-intuitive; which routing information is protected= by DTLS? IP headers remain visible. Or is there more/other routing info= rmation protected by wrapping Group OSCORE messages in DTLS? =3D=3D>MT The wording "routing information" was suggested by Jim in an old review. = This refers to CoAP options such as Uri-Host, Uri-Port and Proxy-Uri,=20 which would not be protected by (Group) OSCORE but would be protected by = DTLS. PROPOSAL: Rephrase as follows. OLD: "... (and vice versa), in order to protect the routing information of=20 packets from observers." NEW: "... (and vice versa). This prevents observers from accessing addressing = information conveyed in CoAP options that would not be protected by=20 Group OSCORE, but would be protected by DTLS. These options include=20 Uri-Host, Uri-Port and Proxy-Uri. <=3D=3D > > "but has the benefit of restricting the symmetric keying material while= distributing only the public key of each group member." > -> can be formulated more clearly: in what way is the symmetric keying = material restricted? E.g. do we mean restricting any given symmetric key = to only those 2 CoAP endpoints that need to communicate using it. It is n= ot restricted in the sense of restricted scope or, say, restricted (lower= ) key length. > And 'while distributing only the public key of each group member' co= uld be more specific also. To what other node(s) is the public key of a g= roup member sent? E.g. only to those CoAP endpoints that need to communic= ate with that group member, not to > all group members I think. =3D=3D>MT On the first point, the restriction is not about the scope of key usage=20 or about key length. It is about the amount of symmetric material to=20 distribute. Rather than distributing (at most) one symmetric key per=20 other group member, the Group Manager provides one shared Master Secret=20 and (at most) one public key per group member. On the second point, the distribution of public keys to a certain node X = can basically happen at two points in time: when X (re-)joins the group=20 or when X asks the Group Manager for other members' public keys while=20 already a group member. In either case, X can, e.g., ask for the public=20 keys of all group members, or specify some filter criteria to obtain the = public keys of only some members. These details related to key distribution are intentionally out of scope = for Group OSCORE. In the approach defined in=20 draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore=C2=A0 all such details are also defin= ed. PROPOSAL: In order to address this comment while not getting into key=20 distribution details, we can rephrase as follows. OLD: "... it is desirable to restrict the provisioned keying material." NEW: "... it is desirable to restrict the amount of secret keying material=20 provided to each node." OLD: "... (see Section 3), but has the benefit of restricting the symmetric=20 keying material while distributing only the public key of each group=20 member." NEW "... (see Section 3). However, it has the benefit of distributing a=20 single shared secret, while distributing only the public keys of group=20 members or a subset of those." <=3D=3D > > 1.1 Terminology > Perhaps the difference between "node" and "endpoint" can be reiterated = here, even though it was defined by RFC 7252. In this draft the 'term' n= ode is often used e.g. in Section 3.2 to indicate a node with a single en= dpoint where that endpoint joins a group. So when we talk about a 'node = as a group member' that it means a single endpoint hosted on that node. L= ater in Section 3.2. it e.g. states endpoints are removed from the group = which then excludes nodes from communication with the group. In case a no= de can host multiple endpoints, we may need to say then that all endpoint= s of a particular node need to be removed from the group. (Assuming it ca= n have multiple like defined by RFC 7252.) So then it becomes important f= or security reasons to get the distinction clear. =3D=3D>MT Good points. I see this comment as twofold. On the first part, looking at RFC 8613, OSCORE always uses "endpoint"=20 for what concerns the actual security protocol. Instead, it uses "node"=20 only for "constrained node", "intermediary node" or "next node". The occurrences of "node" that you found can be better replaced by=20 "member" or "endpoint" (depending on the context). Note that a group=20 member is actually an "endpoint". In fact, Sender IDs assigned to group=20 members are first of all defined by OSCORE as associated to endpoints. Related fixes are: Section 1: s/number of nodes/number of endpoints (note "endpoints" rather than "members" here, thus taking into account=20 both current group members and candidate group members that still have=20 to join) Section 3.1: s/When a node (re-)joins a group/When an endpoint=20 (re-)joins a group Section 3.1: s/the Birth Gid of that node/the Birth Gid of that endpoint Section 3.1: s/In case the node has in fact/In case the endpoint has in f= act Section 3.1: s/Upon nodes' joining/Upon endpoints' joining Section 3.2: s/this excludes such nodes/this excludes such endpoints (this would also be consistent with the previous sentence of the section)= Section 11.1: s/in case of nodes' leaving/in case of members' leaving I couldn't find other ambiguous uses of "node" and "endpoint". On the second part, yes, a node might admit multiple endpoints, say E1=20 and E2, which thus would have separately joined the group as distinct=20 group members. The eviction of E1 as compromised does not necessarily=20 mean that E2 is also compromised and to be evicted. PROPOSAL: Perform the fixes and rephrasing above. In Section 3.2, we can = clarify that if a *node* is detected to be compromised, the Group=20 Manager must evict all the group members corresponding to endpoints=20 "living" in that node. <=3D=3D > > 2.3 / 2.4.1 > Section 2.3 discusses format requirements for public keys. It also says= "For example, an X.509 certificate is provided as its direct binary seri= alization." which was quite confusing to me as it suggests the entire cer= tificate is denoted as a "pubic key" and used as such in 2.4.1 procedures= =2E > Does this mean in Section 2.4.1 the entire X.509 certificate is used to= derive the pairwise key? That seems less efficient as a node then has to= store the entire X.509 certificate of each peer, instead of just the pub= lic-key part of it (the SubjectPublicKeyInfo structure). That will take m= ore memory than perhaps needed. > Maybe there's some reason the full certificate is used and not just the= SubjectPublicKeyInfo part of it? It could avoid further parsing of the c= ertificate structure. Also when only a part is used it needs to be reall= y clearly defined to avoid unclarities about what part to really use (as = we had in the ANIMA WG). > And another thought: besides memory impact, would using the full X.509 = be more overhead on a constrained device instead of just the SubjectPubli= cKeyInfo part of it? I.e. the input to the HKDF(.) is substantially longe= r when using the full cert. =3D=3D>MT Yes, you understood correctly, the whole X.509 certificate and its=20 serialization would be stored and used for the process you mention. What follows relates to the three different parts of the comments. 1) Yes, the current text denotes the entire certificate as the "public ke= y". =C2=A0=C2=A0 To avoid any confusion, we can follow more closely the same= =20 terminology used in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc , and use "authentication=20 credential" to denote X.509 or C509 certificates, CWT, and CCS. =C2=A0=C2=A0 Then an "authentication credential" includes a "public key"= as=20 authentication key, with details depending on the type of=20 "authentication credential". =C2=A0=C2=A0 That said, the whole "authentication credentials" are curre= ntly=20 used: i) to derive pairwise keys, see Section 2.4.1, on which process a=20 security proof has been accordingly produced in [Thormarker]; and ii) to = fill the external_aad structure, see Section 4.3. =C2=A0=C2=A0 Instead, the "public key" alone is used: i) to compute a=20 Diffie-Hellman shared secret to derive pairwise keys, see Section=20 2.4.1.; and ii) to verify the signature of incoming messages protected=20 in group mode, see Sections 8.2 and 8.4. =C2=A0=C2=A0 PROPOSAL: The document can be revised to consistently use=20 "authentication credential" or "public key" as above. 2) On considering the whole "authentication credentials" verbatim as per = the previous point, this has been aligned to draft-ietf-lake-edhoc. =C2=A0=C2=A0 While considering that "authentication credentials" are inv= olved in=20 key derivation (i.e., of pairwise keys) and in structures providing=20 secure message binding (i.e., the external_aad), there are reasons to=20 consider keeping them verbatim. =C2=A0=C2=A0 * It ensures to carry on also metadata and parameters relat= ed to the=20 public key. These include not only the public key algorithm (that would=20 indeed be, e.g., in the SubjectPublicKeyInfo structure of an X.509=20 certificate), but also other relevant pieces of information (if present) = such as key usage, expiration time, issuer and subject. =C2=A0=C2=A0 * It ensures that all endpoints using another endpoint's=20 "authentication credential" handle exactly the same bytes, as obtained=20 by the credential provider (e.g., the OSCORE Group Manager) and as=20 crafted by the original credential issuer. =C2=A0=C2=A0 Sure, this simplicity introduces the cost of storing the wh= ole=20 "authentication credential" as a larger object, also after having=20 successfully validated it. However, not doing that and rather preserving = only a subset of its content, would result in different complications. =C2=A0=C2=A0 * For each type of current and future "authentication crede= ntial",=20 it becomes necessary to define the exact subset of information to be=20 extracted and preserved. This subset must be kept up to date if a type=20 of "authentication credential" is extended in the future. =C2=A0=C2=A0 * For each type of current and future "authentication crede= ntial",=20 it becomes necessary to define the exact canonical way to encode such a=20 subset, in order to ensure that all endpoints converge to the same result= =2E =C2=A0=C2=A0 This is a trade-off between storage on one hand, and=20 complexity/feasibility/flexibility in correctly handling "authentication = credentials" (which, in the future, can be extended or newly introduced).= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Personally, I tend to favor the latter, while seeing the fo= rmer as=20 an incentive to prefer more compact types of "authentication=20 credential", especially in large groups. =C2=A0=C2=A0 PROPOSAL: Add trade-off considerations as above? 3) Besides the memory impact and rather considering the processing side=20 when deriving pairwise keys in Section 2.4.1, providing a longer input=20 to HDKF(.) should still be fine. In fact, the whole "authentication=20 credentials" are used to build the IKM parameter of HKDF, which in turn=20 is used in the Extract step consisting of a single HMAC-Hash()=20 invocation, see RFC 5869. =C2=A0=C2=A0 PROPOSAL: if the above is clear and agreed, no action. <=3D=3D > > 2.4.1 > the adjective "(signature)" is used a couple of times. I don't see a "s= ignature public key" being defined explicitly. Also Fig 1 does not use "(= signature)". Do I miss something? =3D=3D>MT No, that was just a too compressed way to indicate that a public key can = be either a signature public key or a Diffie-Hellman public key. The former case is the typical one, where the group uses the group mode, = possibly together with the pairwise mode. Then, public keys are=20 signature keys. The latter case is relevant to a group using only the pairwise mode,=20 where endpoints will have Diffie-Hellman keys as public keys. PROPOSAL: Considering the possible confusion and the discussion on=20 terminology in the previous point, "(signature) public key" can be=20 changed to "authentication credential", which is in fact what is used=20 when building IKM-Sender and IKM-Recipient through byte concatenation. <=3D=3D > > 3.2 > See Section 1.1 comment. =3D=3D>MT See reply to Section 1.1 comment above. PROPOSAL: no further action. <=3D=3D > > "The Group Manager MUST check if the new Gid to be distributed coincide= s with the Birth Gid of any of the current group members" > -> This is unclear to me. In the first paragraph of 3.2, it is stated t= hat GM creates a new Gid. So how could it coincide if it is really new? (= Also not clear what 'coincide' means here. Equal? If so, we should write = 'equals') > -> What is the purpose of evicting the elder members? This is puzzling= , as the aim is to keep the elder members in the group surely. =3D=3D>MT First off, yes, here "coincide" means "equal". We will replace it (also=20 in other parts of the document where it is similarly used). The first paragraph of Section 3.2 means that: the group has Gid G1=20 before rekeying; and, when rekeying the group, the Group Manager=20 generates and assigns a new Gid G2 different from G1. That is, two=20 consecutively used Gid values are certainly different. Using "equal"=20 rather than "coincide" should already make it clearer, and we can also=20 explicitly clarify as above. Besides that and more in general, the Gid G1 may be re-assigned later=20 on, at some point in time during the group lifetime. This allows a group = to "live forever", even after the whole space of Gid values has been=20 exhausted, so that values can be reused. The details really depend on how the Group Manager generates, manages=20 and formats the Gid values. An example is provided in Appendix C, where=20 a Gid value is composed of a fixed Group Prefix followed by a Group=20 Epoch subject to increment at every rekeying. Eventually, the Group=20 Epoch would wrap-around, thus yielding the reuse of past Gid values. The = same can happen with different Gid formats. With the above in mind, let's get to the purpose of doing what is in the = text you have quoted. The following expands on what is very shortly=20 summarized in the draft as: "This ensures that an Observe notification=20 [RFC7641] can never successfully match against the Observe requests of two different=20 observations." In general, as you say, the aim is indeed to keep current members in the = group, unless to be evicted for other reasons (e.g., as compromised).=20 However, a particular "elder member" M as defined in the text is not=20 safe to keep in the group, since that would put in danger the security=20 of its very old, ongoing observations. In fact, this is what might happen= =2E * The endpoint M joins the group, obtaining Gid G1 and Sender ID ID1.=20 That is, G1 is the "Birth Gid" of M. * The endpoint M starts an observation OBS1, say using Partial IV equal=20 to 42. This observation would leverage an external_aad including the=20 triple (42, G1, ID1), in order to match notifications to the observation = request. * The group is rekeyed several times, thus changing its Gid value=20 multiple times. In the meanwhile, the endpoint M keeps OBS1 active and=20 retains its original Sender ID ID1. * Eventually, the Group Manager rekeys the group and re-assigns Gid G1.=20 Now, the newly assigned Gid G1, is equal to the "Birth Gid" of the=20 endpoint M. If the endpoint M was not evicted from the group as defined in the=20 current draft, the following can happen. The endpoint M starts a new observation OBS2. As an unlucky coincidence, = M uses Partial IV equal to 42 in the observation request. Therefore,=20 just like the still ongoing OBS1, also OBS2 would leverage an=20 external_aad including the triple (42, G1, ID1). Hence, from then on, a notification related to OBS1 or OBS2 would=20 cryptographically match the observation request of both OBS1 and OBS2,=20 which is not secure. Instead, by evicting the endpoint M as the "elder member" in question, M = would eventually re-join the group. When this happens, M terminates all=20 its ongoing observations (see Section 6.1), in addition to obtaining a=20 new Sender ID and resetting its Sender Sequence Number to use as Partial = IV to 0 (see Section 2.5.3.1). PROPOSAL: we have not included the above detailed reasoning in the=20 draft, since it is more related to design considerations than to=20 protocol description. Should we include it instead? If so, would you=20 suggest, e.g., Section 3.2 again or rather in the Security=20 Considerations section? <=3D=3D > > 3.2.1 > > Even when an endpoint joining a group is recognized as a current > member of that group, e.g., through the ongoing secure communicatio= n > association, the Group Manager MUST assign a new Sender ID differen= t > than the one currently used by the endpoint in the group, unless th= e > group is rekeyed first and a new Gid value is established. > -> How can an already-joined endpoint, i.e. a member, join the same gro= up? Or does this text assume that the GM knows the endpoint is a member = while the endpoint itself "forgot" this or purposely deleted its group-re= lated data to do a re-join? > Section 3.3 step 6 has the same question. =3D=3D>MT While the Group Manager knows, e.g, based on the ongoing secure=20 communication association it has with that endpoint, the endpoint does=20 not "forget" about its membership (except in the case it reboots and=20 loses its Security Context). In general, an endpoint may re-join the group. The details about the=20 actual procedure are up to the specific Group Manager (e.g., the one=20 defined in draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore), but a re-join can=20 happen in a number of cases. For instance: * Following a forceful eviction. In the situation discussed in the=20 previous comment, a re-join would in fact be successful, since the=20 eviction was intentionally performed to force a re-joining and the=20 termination of very long-living observations. * As discussed in Section 2.5.3 (and more in details in Section 2.5.3.1=20 and 2.5.3.2), an endpoint might need new Security Context parameters=20 from the Group Manager. In particular, it requires a new Sender ID if it = has run out of Sender Sequence Number values, or the latest group keying = material if it realizes to have missed some group rekeying instances. =C2=A0=C2=A0 What this draft is concerned about is that the Group Manage= r is able=20 to provide these parameters to the endpoint if need be. Again, how this=20 exactly happens depends on the specific Group Manager and the interface=20 it provides to the current or candidate group members (see above). =C2=A0=C2=A0 That said, fully re-joining the group is a minimally grante= d way to=20 acquire all those parameters at once, rather than through more=20 fine-grained interactions that the Group Manager might, in general, not=20 implement. That is, upon re-joining the group, the endpoint would=20 receive a new Sender ID (hence technically becoming a new endpoint) and=20 the latest keying material to use in the group. PROPOSAL: if the above is clear and agreed, no action. <=3D=3D > > Figure 2 says "After changing Group ID, an unused kid can be assigned".= Do we mean here a previously used kid (under a Gid=3DN) that is currentl= y unused (under Gid=3DN), can be re-assigned after Gid change to Gid !=3D= N ? Not sure whether we can fit the intended sentence in such a small s= pace. Maybe "After Group ID change, a formerly used kid can be re-used" ?= =3D=3D>MT Well, it was not necessarily formerly used, it might have never been befo= re. That is, assume that possible kid values are {0, 1, ..., 9}. Under Gid=3D100, the Group Manager assigns the kid values {0, 1, ..., 7}.= =20 Then: * The endpoint with kid =3D 0 leaves the group. * The Group Manager rekeys the group and assigns Gid=3D200. Then, under Gid=3D200: * The kid values {1, 2, ..., 7} are taken. * The kid values {0, 8, 9} are available to be assigned. Note that 0 was indeed formerly used under the previous Gid value, but 8 = and 9 have never been. PROPOSAL: the text in Figure 2 can be updated as: "After Group ID=20 change, an unused kid becomes possible to assign, even if used before=20 the Group ID change." <=3D=3D > > 8 > Recommendations in the last paragraph to not send back any error messag= e: is this also applicable when the group request is sent over a unicast = transport? In that case it should be ok to respond error, since there's n= o risk of amplification attack. > E.g. for a unicast pairwise request it is defined that an error can be = sent e.g. in 9.4. Although sending group request over unicast is general= ly not recommended as stated elsewhere in the draft, there were some vali= d cases cited so we can consider group request over unicast cases. =3D=3D>MT Good points. To clarify, a request can be sent over unicast or=20 multicast, when protected in group mode or in pairwise mode. That is: - Multicast request in group mode. This is the typical case for the=20 group mode. - Unicast request in group mode. This is not recommended as discussed in = Section 11.9. - Unicast request in pairwise mode. This is the typical case for the=20 pairwise mode, and is very similar to how OSCORE works. - Multicast request in pairwise mode. This is a particular case, with=20 two relevant examples: --- The last paragraph in Section 9.0, in turn pointing to Section 9.1. --- Section 3.4.5 of draft-amsuess-core-cachable-oscore-03 Note that a server might not be able to assert if a received request was = sent over unicast or multicast. Although for different reasons, this is=20 already mentioned in Section 4.4 of RFC 7252, and we had a practical=20 evidence in Java implementations. PROPOSAL: based on the above, we can revise the recommendation in=20 Section 8 as follows. i) servers that are not able to distinguish multicast and unicast=20 requests are RECOMMENDED to suppress error responses. ii) servers that are able to distinguish multicast and unicast requests=20 are RECOMMENDED to suppress error responses to multicast requests. <=3D=3D > > 8.3.1 > "For each ongoing observation, the server can help the client to > synchronize, by including also the 'kid context' parameter in > notifications following a group rekeying, " > -> I'm wondering in what way this helps. Is it a reduction of time / en= ergy used by the client, because sending it lets the client avoid trying = out decryption/validation using first the old Gid/context, which would fa= il? > The downside of optionally including it is a more complex handling in t= he code i.e. more message variations =3D more code paths =3D more things = potentially going wrong and to test. =3D=3D>MT Well, while usually not necessary, it is not wrong to include 'kid=20 context' in a response message. In this particular case, the notification including the new Gid in 'kid=20 context' makes the client aware that a group rekeying has happened, or=20 is underway and the client has not got rekeying messages yet. Now, if the client has already switched to the new Security Context,=20 then the old one would have been discarded. If the client has not already switched to the new Security Context, the=20 notification can make the client realize to have missed one or more=20 group rekeying instances. The client will then promptly check with the=20 Group Manager and retrieve the latest group keying material for deriving = the latest Security Context, rather than doing that anyway (much) later, = e.g., after experiencing several consecutive decryption failures. Especially for a client that does not send requests that often (or does=20 not receive requests that often if acting also as a server), this hint=20 is an opportunistic shortcut to realize its misalignment in terms of=20 Security Context, which might otherwise require more time and decryption = failures. PROPOSAL: if the above is clear and agreed, no action. <=3D=3D > > 10 > > Constrained IoT devices may alternatively represent Montgomery curves > and (twisted) Edwards curves [RFC7748] in the short-Weierstrass for= m > Wei25519, with which the algorithms ECDSA25519 and ECDH25519 can be= > used for signature operations and Diffie-Hellman secret calculation= , > respectively [I-D.ietf-lwig-curve-representations]. > > -> This sounds optional ('may'). But the paragraph is in the section "M= andatory-to-Implement"; why place it there? > -> Also several SHOULD/RECOMMENDED items are in this section. Same que= stion, doesn't it contradict the title? =3D=3D>MT The section title is "Mandatory-to-Implement Compliance Requirements",=20 like in the analogous section of draft-ietf-lake-edhoc , and uses the=20 items you mention in a similar way. If I understand the comment correctly, you would expect a section named=20 "Mandatory-to-Implement ..." to cover its points only using MUST/SHALL.=20 Correct? PROPOSAL: Since we do mean what is in the text here, it can help to=20 change the section title to "Implementation Compliance". Then, some of=20 the covered points would be indeed mandatory-to-implement requirements,=20 while other would not. <=3D=3D > > 11 > I did not find a consideration about selecting the value/length of the = Master Salt, and whether it needs to be set at all (i.e. other than the d= efault value of Master Salt). Is it useful for group communication? In wh= at situations? =3D=3D>MT There are no differences compared to OSCORE, hence Group OSCORE simply=20 inherits what is defined in RFC 8613. Like in OSCORE, the Master Salt has variable length, and its length and=20 value may be preserved or changed when rekeying the group. Its use and usefulness are also the same as in OSCORE. That is, by=20 contributing in the key derivation process, it prevents cryptanalysis=20 (see Section 12.6 of RFC 8613 also inherited in Section 11.15 of Group=20 OSCORE). PROPOSAL: if the above is clear and agreed, no action. <=3D=3D > > What about a consideration on a possible DoS attack: an attacker first= blocks the IP communication path to the Group Manager , and then trigger= a mass power-cycle (reboot) including devices that are doing Group OSCOR= E communication. These device will then not perform group communication a= nymore due to the section 2.5.1.1 requirements last paragraph. Blocking= the IP communication path to the GM could be done e.g. by injecting fake= DNS responses for GM hostname queries or by removing a network link that= 's used for routing towards the GM. At least in the movies an attacker is= ocassionally able to trigger a power outage for a few seconds ;) =3D=3D>MT Thanks, I think it is good to elaborate on this. I am just not sure where exactly. This might require a new dedicated=20 subsection within Section 11, together with an effective reminder of=20 Section 2.5.1.1 for the reader. PROPOSAL: elaborate on this point, once understood where exactly, but=20 most likely within the security considerations. <=3D=3D > > 11.1 > "Thus, a current group member owning the > latest group keying material does not own the public key of any > former group member." > -> Not sure what this intends to say. A group member may store a public= key of any group member. But it never "owns" the public key of another n= ode, in the sense that it doesn't have access to its private key right? > Maybe it was intended to say that due to protocol/GM design, a node doe= sn't store the public key of a former group member because it gets delete= d at the moment that the member leaves. > Changing "owned" to "stored" may help to rephrase. =3D=3D>MT Just like you said: not "owned" as related to a property, but rather to=20 something available in local storage. PROPOSAL: change "own"/"owned" to "store"/"stored". This probably=20 affects=C2=A0 some other sentence in the document. <=3D=3D > > 11.7.2 > Towards the end the reader may lose a bit the context of the prior "wou= ld" statements. E.g. we have: > > Since the Partial IV is 5 bytes in size, this requires 2^40 > operations to test all the Partial IVs, which can be done in real- > time. The probability that a single given message M1 can be used t= o > forge a response M2 for a given request would be equal to 2^-24, > since there are more MAC values (8 bytes in size) than Partial IV > values (5 bytes in size). > > Is this in the context of the present solution specified, or in context= of a hypothetical case of a countersignature that does *not* cover the O= SCORE Option? > Same question for the paragraph: > Note that, by changing the Partial IV as discussed above, any member > of G1 would also be able to forge a valid signed response message M= 2 > to be injected in the same group G1. > (In other words: do we want to say here that a member of G2 can *not* f= orge a valid signed response message M2, because we now have a countersig= nature that covers the OSCORE Option? > Or do we want to say that a member of G2 *can* forge in real-time.) =3D=3D>MT Starting from the paragraph "If the countersignature did not cover ..."=20 , the text discusses the hypothetical case of the countersignature *not* = covering the OSCORE option. To make it clearer and ensure that the reader does not loose context, we = can perform the following editorial fixes, by also leveraging a bullet=20 list and its indentation. " If, hypothetically, the countersignature did not cover the OSCORE option:= * The attack described in Section 11.7.1 would still be possible against = response messages ... * A simplification would also be possible in performing the attack,=20 since Z is able to ... =C2=A0=C2=A0 Since the Partial IV is 5 bytes in size, ... =C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that, by changing the Partial IV ... " PROPOSAL: perform the editorial updates above. <=3D=3D > > References > Quite a number of references are informative. This may need to be chang= ed for some, based on the guidelines in https://eur05.safelinks.protectio= n.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fabout%2Fgroups%2Fiesg%2= Fstatements%2Fnormative-informative-references%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Cma= rco.tiloca%40ri.se%7C0d8f108545ce472d32cc08d9d4e2ce2b%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a8= 38a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637774893728988984%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW= IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&= ;sdata=3DhUDgSQ3DeCr5gC0aQmHfwn2ILs7uL8lD2rhAXbggads%3D&reserved=3D0.= =3D=3D>MT Thanks, especially two points should be considered from the guidelines=20 (restated here for reference in the following comments). GL1: "Normative references specify documents that must be read to=20 understand or implement the technology in the new RFC, or whose=20 technology must be present for the technology in the new RFC to work." GL2: "Even references that are relevant only for optional features must=20 be classified as normative if they meet the above conditions for=20 normative references." <=3D=3D > Reference [I-D.mattsson-cfrg-det-sigs-with-noise] is used in a normativ= e requirement (SHOULD), so the reference should be normative even though = some implementations may not use it. (Assumption here is that most will.= ) =3D=3D>MT For information, note that Section 1 of=20 [I-D.mattsson-cfrg-det-sigs-with-noise] says: =E2=80=9CProduced signatures remain fully compatible with unmodified ECDS= A and=20 EdDSA verifiers and existing key pairs can continue to be used.=E2=80=9D That is, the approach can be used with only one communication side=20 supporting it. Regardless, while keeping the reference as informative, possible=20 alternatives to take in Section 10 for addressing the guideline GL1 can b= e: * Changing "RECOMMENDED" to "recommended". * Rephrasing the whole bullet point as follows, or similar: OLD: If elliptic curve signatures are used, it is RECOMMENDED to implement=20 deterministic signatures with additional randomness as specified in=20 [I-D.mattsson-cfrg-det-sigs-with-noise]. NEW: =E2=80=9CIf elliptic curve signatures are used, it is RECOMMENDED for=20 deployments where side-channel and fault injection attacks are a concern = to implement deterministic signatures with additional randomness, for=20 example by using the constructions specified in=20 [I-D.mattsson-cfrg-det-sigs-with-noise].=E2=80=9D PROPOSAL: keep the reference informative and take one of the two=20 alternatives above (preferably the second one). <=3D=3D > Similar for [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore], [I-D.ietf-ace-key-g= roupcomm-oscore]: used in a SHOULD. =3D=3D>MT The occurrences in question are: * Section 3 "The Group Manager": It is RECOMMENDED to use a Group=20 Manager as described in [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore]. * Section 3.2 "Management of Group Keying Material": The specific group=20 key management scheme used to distribute new keying material, is out of=20 the scope of this document. However, it is RECOMMENDED that the Group=20 Manager supports the Group Rekeying Process described in=20 [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore]. * Appendix D "Set-up of New Endpoints": It is RECOMMENDED that the join=20 process adopts the approach described in=20 [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore] ... There are two safe alternative to take in the sections above to address=20 the guideline GL1: * Make the reference normative. * Relax the statements to be non normative, while pointing to the ACE=20 document providing a possible Group Manager to use, as including also a=20 group rekeying process and a join process in its specification. PROPOSAL: take one of the two alternatives above (preferably the second o= ne) <=3D=3D > CoAP Observe RFC 7641 plays an important role so should be a normative = reference. That is true regardless of the fact that Observe is an option= al feature; since many of the sections define specific protocol elements = for Observe i.e. it defines new technology that builds normatively on Obs= erve. =3D=3D>MT Agree, as consistent with the guideline GL2. PROPOSAL: make RFC 7641 a normative reference. <=3D=3D > > Reference [I-D.ietf-core-echo-request-tag] is used in a normative MUST = requirement (in 2.5.1.2), so here the reference should be normative. > Or do I misunderstand this? It can also be interpreted as only Appendix= E being the target of the MUST requirement, while [I-D.ietf-core-echo-re= quest-tag] is only informative - but that seems to be not the case, as th= e format of the Echo option is actually used in the Appendix E approach. = In other words you need to read [I-D.ietf-core-echo-request-tag] definiti= ons to implement the solution of Appendix E and it cannot work otherwise.= =3D=3D>MT tldr; Consistently with the guideline in GL2, agree that=20 echo-request-tag should be a normative reference due to Section 2.5.1.2. Originally, Appendix E was intended to provide a possible way to deal=20 with message freshness and client aliveness, as the analogous of=20 Appendix B.1.2 of RFC 8613. Thus, consistently with RFC 8613, we: i) wrote it as an appendix=20 presenting a possible approach to use for synchronization; ii) had=20 echo-request-tag as an informative reference; iii) had not normative=20 language about it in Sections 6.3 "Message Freshness", 11.13 "Message=20 Freshness" and 11.14 "Client Aliveness". Section 2.5.1.2 and the problem it discusses came later, and admittedly=20 raise the bar about the role and importance of echo-request-tag, which=20 is still presented as one of two alternatives, but also as the=20 RECOMMENDED one. Thus, it sounds right to make echo-request-tag a normative reference. PROPOSAL: make draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag a normative reference. <=3D=3D > > Appendices > All: Some appendices have normative language; so it seems they are not = merely informative. Is there a particular reason for putting this informa= tion in an appendix and not in main text? > Should we indicate in the introduction which Appendices are normative a= nd which informative? =3D=3D>MT This is the case for Appendix D and Appendix E. As to Appendix D "Set-up of New Endpoints", it uses RECOMMENDED once,=20 for draft-ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore regarding the join process to=20 use. However, this is simply restating the same normative recommendation = from Section 3. It should help to simply change "RECOMMENDED" to=20 "recommended" in Appendix D. However, based on a previous comment, this=20 recommendation throughout the document can be relaxed to be=20 non-normative in the first place. As to Appendix E "Challenge-Response Synchronization", the analogous=20 Appendix B.1.2 of RFC 8613 also uses normative language (just like its=20 Appendix B.2). That is, once clarified upfront that the appendix=20 describes a possible approach, it should be fine to use normative=20 language to describe details about how that approach has to work when=20 used. However, based on the final comment below, Appendix E might become = an actual section in the document body. PROPOSAL: in Appendix D, change "RECOMMENDED" to "recommended"=20 (regardless of how the recommendation becomes in the rest of the document= ). <=3D=3D > > Appendix A.1 > "Multicast data security ciphersuite: all members of a security group m= ust agree on a ciphersuite" > -> Isn't it determined by the GM? E.g. the GM needs to establish a ciph= ersuite that all members can support. There's no agreement protocol or so= =2E =3D=3D>MT Correct, it is indeed determined by the Group Manager; to be clarified=20 as, e.g.: "all members of a security group must use a same ciphersuite=20 to ...". PROPOSAL: clarify the quoted sentence. <=3D=3D > > Appendix D > It is RECOMMENDED that the join process adopts the approach described > in [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore] and based on the ACE framewo= rk > for Authentication and Authorization in constrained environments > [I-D.ietf-ace-oauth-authz]. > -> the part "and based on the ACE framework ..." is not so clear. Is ap= plying [I-D.ietf-ace-oauth-authz] RECOMMENDED? Or is it just informationa= l saying that [I-D.ietf-ace-key-groupcomm-oscore] is basing itself on [I-= D.ietf-ace-oauth-authz], as a "FYI" statement? =3D=3D>MT The latter. PROPOSAL: no action. <=3D=3D > Section 3 language on this same subject is more clear and could be used= instead. Or maybe refer to the Section 3 statement from here to avoid d= uplication. =3D=3D>MT Thanks for the suggestion. PROPOSAL: rephrase as per Section 3. <=3D=3D > > Appendix E > Given the normative-references discussion above and normative reference= s made to Appendix E, why isn't this content in a main document section? =3D=3D>MT See the history of Appendix E in the reply to a previous comment. As also mentioned above, due to the role/importance of echo-request-tag=20 in the more recent Section 2.5.1.2, it would be good to make it a=20 section in the document body, e.g., after the current Section 9 "Message = Processing in Pairwise Mode". Consistently, and as discussed in a comment above, echo-request-tag=20 would also become a normative reference. PROPOSAL: if agreed, move Appendix E to the document body. <=3D=3D =3D=3D>MT Thanks a lot again! <=3D=3D > > > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez > Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 20:00 > To: core@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm.authors@ietf.org > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of draft-ietf-core-oscore-gro= upcomm > > Dear CoRE, > > as we discussed yesterday, the authors of draft-ietf-core-oscore-groupc= omm think their draft is ready for a 2nd WGLC. The current version of the= draft (v13) is not expecting any updates so you can start your planned r= eviews. > > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat= atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-core-oscore-groupcomm-13&= data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40ri.se%7C0d8f108545ce472d32cc08d9d4e2ce2b%= 7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9e8%7C0%7C0%7C637774893728988984%7CUnknown= %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC= I6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3DVVud%2BqJGlRNfTaOAEL%2FDTpSAd9aqrkCRJCipL7Ony= bM%3D&reserved=3D0 > > In addition to the email list discussion reviewers could consider openi= ng new issues on the Github repo of the draft as courtesy to the authors.= > > https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgit= hub.com%2Fcore-wg%2Foscore-groupcomm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cmarco.tiloca%40= ri.se%7C0d8f108545ce472d32cc08d9d4e2ce2b%7C5a9809cf0bcb413a838a09ecc40cc9= e8%7C0%7C0%7C637774893728988984%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM= DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3DrlZj= qNw14TCBifx4PNLbJcFnBl5bsjIv%2F%2FYUKo1RJ%2B0%3D&reserved=3D0 > > As we have the IETF ongoing and the document needs time to be digested,= we place the end of the call on the 1st of December with a possibility o= f extension depending on the number of reviews. > > >From the minutes I take that CA, RH, ED and TF would give it thorough = look. Thank you already for that, much appreciated!! > > Ciao! --=20 Marco Tiloca Ph.D., Senior Researcher Division: Digital System Department: Computer Science Unit: Cybersecurity RISE Research Institutes of Sweden https://www.ri.se Phone: +46 (0)70 60 46 501 Isafjordsgatan 22 / Kistag=C3=A5ngen 16 SE-164 40 Kista (Sweden) --------------1474E8A213FC7BD0028D0C50 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xEE2664B40E58DA43.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsBNBFSNeRUBCAC44iazWzj/PE3TiAlBsaWna0JbdIAJFHB8PLrqthI0ZG7GnCLNR8ZhDz6Za= RDP C4FR3UcMhPgZpJIqa6Zi8yWYCqF7A7QhT7E1WdQR1G0+6xUEd0ZD+QBdf29pQadrVZAt0G4Ck= Unq 5H+Sm05aw2Cpv3JfsATVaemWmujnMTvZ3dFudCGNdsY6kPSVzMRyedX7ArLXyF+0Kh1T4WUW6= NHf EWltnzkcqRhn2NcZtADsxWrMBgZXkLE/dP67SnyFjWYpz7aNpxxA+mb5WBT+NrSetJlljT0QO= XrX 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tAf/XjIV2XK1FXIGsZqnoOAmDqVNAF8DqE97982Bgt2j7UeeLVYZoQOfw3WrYaO2xDFaeD8B6IYp byJWxbVQkLiFXgfg3OzDskz/2Ias3WW7JMh/LeNIMxL6mr66zs/Wwltmt/uMpTqP066LMgIQ0rTO 973bNuifeqStBHhtuol05By8q0hvpllI+HdEWyRHKhLrUns3G9KsruJRjhfy62LDnbnBkQNuxKTR InfrNjG4c8ZnRK1usD6IXHZ/QnQNhPCLC7LARu5cRIeChbkncYdBLUTZb98hdV1drI7FpjC13oi2 xkbzpcNVizAKpn9TfK8wV6LVytA/b2gyF4EGD24udQ== =WNIH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Wch1ttMfKAUQbywVcqOvQG3I15LSvHLN7-- From nobody Fri Jan 28 06:44:17 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5722E3A1674; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, 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verify=NOT); Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from christian@amsuess.com) X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.akis.at: Host [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd] claimed to be poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bf]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE61FD7; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:7392:7a6c:9059:fa6b]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73D337F; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:30 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 2489000 invoked by uid 1000); Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:00:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:00:30 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Jon Shallow Cc: "'Carsten Bormann'" , core@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <269201d7f5be$c94dcef0$5be96cd0$@jpshallow.com> <8E42CD49-27E0-4537-9E09-19469EDCADB7@tzi.org> <297301d7f5d6$ed3a33e0$c7ae9ba0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="g3iIpZ7eT5kdmHt3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <297301d7f5d6$ed3a33e0$c7ae9ba0$@jpshallow.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag -14 and Block2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:00:43 -0000 --g3iIpZ7eT5kdmHt3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jon, hello CoRE On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 07:22:28PM -0000, Jon Shallow wrote: > Thanks for this. I will go ahead using the Request-Tag in the request > in the potential case there is a response requiring Block2. I've asked that this be altered in the currently open AUTH48 process; quoting: > I support that change. The concrete text change I suggest is: >=20 > OLD: > Note that Request-Tag options can be present in request messages that > carry no Block options (for example, because a proxy unaware of > Request-Tag reassembled them) and MUST be ignored in those. >=20 > NEW: > Note that Request-Tag options can be present in request messages that > carry no Block options (for example, because a proxy unaware of > Request-Tag reassembled them). Clients may set them for purposes not > further discussed in this document. >=20 > (The "MUST" was also slightly inexact; the server would still have used > them as part of the block-wise key in any later Block2 phase, but it > must not do anything more with it, as 3.3 already describes). >=20 > OLD: > The Request-Tag option is only used in requests that carry the Block1 > option and in Block2 requests following these. >=20 > NEW: > The Request-Tag option is mainly used in requests that carry the Block1 > option and in Block2 requests following these. >=20 > (The reader might follow with a thought like "although it may later turn > out that the operation was not as block-wise as the client had > anticipated", or even "and if it's only to disambiguate with a request > that is still ongoing and known to be block-wise", but that does not > need to be put in the document IMO). Thanks for pointing this out, it's a valuable change for a use case I did not consider. BR c --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --g3iIpZ7eT5kdmHt3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAmH4Fa4ACgkQOY0REtOk veF+tBAAh9m0Hi3C9FuF9oJuRailkGw3AaUV0lRdWGbgswCHu6EwswIVyNWwpIxH tw8YllLi9FbYtPBDZhfwOosshLxU5krEoxwjdQ9YmMe9s8au13wuuRUzRKWserpg ZBKjeKfJ5dK8sMrBwkOvlWiXCYsTs7LquWeIQkYvpmB3zfiXWG1cPWCVVSIEqmI7 WsFWq+9KnzI/73kfb0sL8t1lNJCoTK+qVoBrjgw17n0GHIaCcp0uaHjRwZd1zW0t WIDezN7xUBvHoWMkt5eElpbIzkdqbH/kRCJ9YtKPrqdZkdX97+qA+gV6riKU6wu6 VDnTlSnPxzsGqq3z6igxGrvIN0/uXtty4TwAp7SN77hqjyLQd7+wE/tvhsWM08la Bm/ye8nlWiP05JGUHcUwpdRlpUu4mLVxmNlKN0tKbcdTaB2yFhd9aqcAtY4cFCim xjA7QpTy2LUgqCDJiVvqywdyhfpVypDLX9H7vVRWwC0RK+9wlOKL8/9PEFgGbctQ MeKJ9/4WEBb72tA5ybRSwTXplrpZQ65q5h+ZYzxAKWeEZpyQZFP9hIXy3esesqQv MpAh8/7sYFxoIptpy/KE0AyhGMMbslF1rP4zanIFtSjdo+CAcoxniaO+bubldHR0 +icNDo91dk3iA9Ag9My4z7jfb1XBIHlaKq49YiUZSWziv0NOvBM= =/8hu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --g3iIpZ7eT5kdmHt3-- From nobody Mon Jan 31 09:09:57 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6C63A0E13 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IrBG_z6mDeTs for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D84A3A0E86 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.jpshallow.com ([192.168.0.3] helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1nEaBQ-0004xs-Vn; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:09:41 +0000 From: To: Cc: "'Carsten Bormann'" , References: <269201d7f5be$c94dcef0$5be96cd0$@jpshallow.com> <8E42CD49-27E0-4537-9E09-19469EDCADB7@tzi.org> <297301d7f5d6$ed3a33e0$c7ae9ba0$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:09:39 -0000 Message-ID: <133801d816c5$54d17090$fe7451b0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQF8QA3GNdD894KceuIedjWXFRhXNAJ65wRwAYtRiI0BCmO2UK0MhMig Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag -14 and Block2 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:09:56 -0000 Hi Christian, Thanks for doing this. The proposed changes work for me. Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Ams=FCss [mailto: christian@amsuess.com] > Sent: 31 January 2022 17:01 > To: Jon Shallow > Cc: 'Carsten Bormann'; core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] draft-ietf-core-echo-request-tag -14 and Block2 >=20 > Hello Jon, hello CoRE >=20 > On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 07:22:28PM -0000, Jon Shallow wrote: > > Thanks for this. I will go ahead using the Request-Tag in the = request > > in the potential case there is a response requiring Block2. >=20 > I've asked that this be altered in the currently open AUTH48 process; > quoting: >=20 > > I support that change. The concrete text change I suggest is: > > > > OLD: > > Note that Request-Tag options can be present in request messages = that > > carry no Block options (for example, because a proxy unaware of > > Request-Tag reassembled them) and MUST be ignored in those. > > > > NEW: > > Note that Request-Tag options can be present in request messages = that > > carry no Block options (for example, because a proxy unaware of > > Request-Tag reassembled them). Clients may set them for purposes not > > further discussed in this document. > > > > (The "MUST" was also slightly inexact; the server would still have > > used them as part of the block-wise key in any later Block2 phase, = but > > it must not do anything more with it, as 3.3 already describes). > > > > OLD: > > The Request-Tag option is only used in requests that carry the = Block1 > > option and in Block2 requests following these. > > > > NEW: > > The Request-Tag option is mainly used in requests that carry the > > Block1 option and in Block2 requests following these. > > > > (The reader might follow with a thought like "although it may later > > turn out that the operation was not as block-wise as the client had > > anticipated", or even "and if it's only to disambiguate with a = request > > that is still ongoing and known to be block-wise", but that does not > > need to be put in the document IMO). >=20 > Thanks for pointing this out, it's a valuable change for a use case I = did not > consider. >=20 > BR > c >=20 > -- > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom From nobody Mon Jan 31 11:53:19 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFFB3A1595 for ; 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boundary="------------Sv029OJEPheOlPZHtrDfNbcG"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marco Tiloca To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" Message-ID: Subject: [core] CoRE WG Virtual Interim 2022-02-02 --------------Sv029OJEPheOlPZHtrDfNbcG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------mUXnBErE7094KQLucXVzSbv0" --------------mUXnBErE7094KQLucXVzSbv0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCkp1c3QgYSByZW1pbmRlciB0aGF0IHdlIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSBhIHZpcnR1 YWwgaW50ZXJpbSBtZWV0aW5nIG9uIA0KV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAybmQgYXQgMTU6 MDAgVVRDLiBUaGUgYWdlbmRhIGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCBbMV0uDQoNClRoZSBtZWV0aW5n IHdpbGwgYmUgb24gTWVldGVjaG8gWzJdIGFuZCBtaW51dGVzIHdpbGwgYmUgdGFrZW4gYXQg WzNdLiANClBsZWFzZSwgZmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIHByb3Bvc2UgZnVydGhlciB0b3BpY3MgdG8g ZGlzY3Vzcy4NCg0KQmVzdCwNCk1hcmNvIGFuZCBKYWltZQ0KDQoNClsxXSBodHRwczovL2Rh dGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL21lZXRpbmcvaW50ZXJpbS0yMDIyLWNvcmUtMDIvc2Vzc2lv bi9jb3JlDQoNClsyXSANCmh0dHBzOi8vbWVldGluZ3MuY29uZi5tZWV0ZWNoby5jb20vaW50 ZXJpbS8/c2hvcnQ9MjY5MWQ2MjgtMjMxNS00ODBkLTk5MmUtODI3NWUzODNlODIwDQoNClsz XSBodHRwczovL25vdGVzLmlldGYub3JnL25vdGVzLWlldGYtaW50ZXJpbS0yMDIyLWNvcmUt MDItY29yZQ0KDQotLSANCk1hcmNvIFRpbG9jYQ0KUGguRC4sIFNlbmlvciBSZXNlYXJjaGVy DQoNCkRpdmlzaW9uOiBEaWdpdGFsIFN5c3RlbQ0KRGVwYXJ0bWVudDogQ29tcHV0ZXIgU2Np ZW5jZQ0KVW5pdDogQ3liZXJzZWN1cml0eQ0KDQpSSVNFIFJlc2VhcmNoIEluc3RpdHV0ZXMg b2YgU3dlZGVuDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5yaS5zZQ0KDQpQaG9uZTogKzQ2ICgwKTcwIDYwIDQ2 IDUwMQ0KSXNhZmpvcmRzZ2F0YW4gMjIgLyBLaXN0YWfDpW5nZW4gMTYNClNFLTE2NCA0MCBL aXN0YSAoU3dlZGVuKQ0KDQo= --------------mUXnBErE7094KQLucXVzSbv0 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; 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