From nobody Thu May 9 07:22:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E671200B6 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 07:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.147 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zZMzzGmB2Anj for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bode.no8.be (51-171-169-8-dynamic.agg2.blb.cld-dbn.eircom.net [51.171.169.8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08F6E12006A for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.162] (unknown [IPv6:2001:bb6:506:8e01:1ce5:7bb2:46e7:6dc5]) by bode.no8.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B7CA1DF156 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:22:39 +0000 (UTC) From: "Niall O'Reilly" To: dbound@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 15:22:37 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.4r5594) Message-ID: <0899C38C-8802-48ED-ACB6-E6BC3F863C9F@ucd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Archived-At: Subject: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 14:22:43 -0000 Hi. At Stephen Farrell's suggestion, and after an inexcusable delay, I've taken a look at this draft. My first reaction is that the PTR record (RFC1035, 1987) seems to fit the intended use case. /Niall From nobody Thu May 9 09:42:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA611200DF for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=cV1GsGus; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=u+QG2IQe Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f66jFH4aotvv for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3851A12006B for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 90586 invoked from network); 9 May 2019 16:42:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=161d5.5cd45881.k1905; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=R+3FANrlShl3D0tA0kMCDJHdC8wVz8+ZrCjTUMwhesE=; b=cV1GsGus+AQEXo7ZA08NXcFnfPY1LB/jJwkWDh9sw6Sxw8L0gNCZDyaiaVhUFHfydCfFt5Gt4i+F9tbZee3WIPZmdiCPCXjHeHVTi0Bk2bf8p+RzEl8B44aWNSF7x/TbSTNHhOF6Ipv1y0Tb6Sm+z/jR1vHBp8/d1uMOZr26KDBWp003TD/+IavNG8jwReiUC1jVq9ByE0VlTl9ppWgwwRNv2Ry9ORjYn7toH664Yb+wS8/ZAOdMjZ65F8McNHCM DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=161d5.5cd45881.k1905; olt=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=R+3FANrlShl3D0tA0kMCDJHdC8wVz8+ZrCjTUMwhesE=; b=u+QG2IQetRl7D7a62tKU+CxVxvv8R3xYQT2G5nWVQzo937fIo2wi6egaKXypANze8kNRMYoRlXeKKQhvKJO3CAJS+2QgF5SG4qLTpva7n0YyUafX0oGm/L4psenvrSvFAij2QUh18LW3E4UlS5a9Xlr70oa7ceigPfEzDlLi/bJvFzONQQrukX5BJn4HEMMwSTp15kvsvqzIBEMqSMsoJ/vMT2YyZK8pFeOm0ULDESiAEm/XbGiCsPKLfCA5t6ZG Received: from ary.qy ([64.246.232.221]) by imap.iecc.com ([64.57.183.75]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP; 09 May 2019 16:42:41 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 354EF2013999BB; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: 9 May 2019 12:42:40 -0400 Message-Id: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: dbound@ietf.org Cc: Niall.oReilly+IETF@ucd.ie In-Reply-To: <0899C38C-8802-48ED-ACB6-E6BC3F863C9F@ucd.ie> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 16:42:48 -0000 In article <0899C38C-8802-48ED-ACB6-E6BC3F863C9F@ucd.ie> you write: >Hi. > >At Stephen Farrell's suggestion, and after an inexcusable delay, I've >taken a look at this draft. > >My first reaction is that the PTR record (RFC1035, 1987) seems to fit >the intended use case. For over 30 years the only place anyone has used PTR records has been in the rDNS trees under in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. I think that if you try to use them anywhere else, you'll find way too much software that has baked in assumptions that they don't belong there. Note that RFC 1035 says they "are used in special domains". R's, John From nobody Thu May 9 09:51:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD1D12006B for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denic.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UIbI2RWt99l9 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.denic.de (mx1.denic.de [IPv6:2a02:568:102:211::1:16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 687F7120136 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at spamav-1.osl.denic.de Received: from (mx.denic.de) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.denic.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFFD6E4; Thu, 9 May 2019 18:51:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mx1.denic.de EFFD6E4 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=denic.de; s=mail; t=1557420668; bh=w5v9psJXVm2a4n1srm1rhMobL3QPjWJHph3FaeV/xpE=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:From:Sender:To:CC:Subject: Message-Id:Date; b=Ml3n9PKa2FeK3caiNMxIlHbu+aZPAxixBf095e5AvwgZd2WUYXERl/6+tXcW5qEwn jKB86Ekme+mMQQY6oyqee/UXV8fuc0cLq4qkPDepSy4hN1aZlzvLYJD4VeXL0JjF0Z ccHh3S/x/jy9unPw9p1220NVapfnOtmXRjorabKHhsJ4B550/dtwJmWvzVPpmsFUYy a5wZR66z5R0/ts1uCmJS2zlBx4Cxl5BcJOjFPLb3UZwlhe+c3imXnvDNpyblRpo5NP hZWTUW0odxSRAcdlu2fcPsjTwEhBtIkjY8fw16uYVAyZE68uh4FMduBhdjc+Ag1j7A PYqRVIX+YAI1Q== Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 18:51:07 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: dbound@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190509165107.GB7968@x11672.adm.denic.de> References: <0899C38C-8802-48ED-ACB6-E6BC3F863C9F@ucd.ie> <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> Sender: Peter Koch Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 16:51:20 -0000 On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 12:42:40PM -0400, John Levine wrote: > For over 30 years the only place anyone has used PTR records has been > in the rDNS trees under in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. I think that if kinda close: RFC 1101 was published in April 1989. -Peter From nobody Thu May 9 10:10:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1C11200E5 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=f8hwF7HI; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=PxfjLR2B Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zO8eJAbVCgH5 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 853FB12006B for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 99293 invoked from network); 9 May 2019 17:10:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=183d8.5cd45ef2.k1905; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=uiVEfJUTdkQIIdd1+/tzW8GB6vNHuWEo0+MW3tb2bXE=; b=f8hwF7HIpn2hHmsihOA7WqGMctV2pbq4MRJJiWwgR3bezZunWXEiVQ41RINdhVaypkKvVGVeh/PyR87hthIhDqyEz861srPh+pu6qKTlHIWB7wiFZfKRettrAvyc8t1eBAhiCe2O6pT14v0r2Zm3t6nWROu+obz2sVb1qmErWEYQ1qCy/XwtvLNr2Z12YAEezOzA/ku/WCg84OqaqjYVUJiYSyOVIPdWlZIdEXtKOTEQRXBgd9ls7HtEWcGkKVF4 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=183d8.5cd45ef2.k1905; olt=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=uiVEfJUTdkQIIdd1+/tzW8GB6vNHuWEo0+MW3tb2bXE=; b=PxfjLR2BX8ILwtbbprQYlcvWXCzkHlfx7QQO3mhWhM8jvFzLTP7ronRSes7zpjWtPT5uCQc9ShxyOHNX0mILXtI5haUZOjblvclztHhYUFpW55oOkicknlWveH3OEZYbDeEswZ34f5Va0m8chzySXYaNz65n/AHmUboCyoV6VU7HSaVFoBGD/o+oNeuyc/XfYm0Aq2U10oSpZq3mfd76ptr/U97ZeK7OivFxqWlVrp8iB76w6+GSo1y/2jRN8w9I Received: from ary.qy ([64.246.232.221]) by imap.iecc.com ([64.57.183.75]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP; 09 May 2019 17:10:09 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6DA04201399F33; Thu, 9 May 2019 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: 9 May 2019 13:10:09 -0400 Message-Id: <20190509171009.6DA04201399F33@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: dbound@ietf.org Cc: pk@DENIC.DE In-Reply-To: <20190509165107.GB7968@x11672.adm.denic.de> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 17:10:13 -0000 In article <20190509165107.GB7968@x11672.adm.denic.de> you write: >On Thu, May 09, 2019 at 12:42:40PM -0400, John Levine wrote: > >> For over 30 years the only place anyone has used PTR records has been >> in the rDNS trees under in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. I think that if > >kinda close: RFC 1101 was published in April 1989. I know, but I've never seen anyone use the network number PTRs it proposes. This is definitely a practical concern, not one of whether you could publish the bits. It wouldn't work now anyway since it depends on classful addressing to guess how many bits are in the network number. R's, John From nobody Thu May 9 12:06:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0FC12013D for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:06:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ucd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c7EB2UaIBTmz for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40D46120110 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id w11so2986074edl.5 for ; Thu, 09 May 2019 12:06:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ucd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=IS7ftjqDtBSZmCNq7GPEX6jyL928E+AyYQg01TYuY8I=; b=Jnq8FUehpiEUcBXCc3g85EA9yXqGE2mtqAhIhSQg5YV/tmUaQ+ixFwIBe9Odp7VeTr oe80e1FNuUcZdSOsabKqJOZOvvRWwvq3lZiYwydpGSs0GIE7fR29Fsi1iNr0E2k4NQCU +1tJIm3jSDoc8il52/3OMyQu4E4xIJecotsYWF2bYf+NU24FWbrpUuyY/ztpQUOwzcVv uyJINddXDiDEMujCLaRQQZ/YGLJrmy8OUDJxchQYBYj5sT6d0XG2ytAuHrxyD2jvOCiG 6h73JSOUvRacY7TxLjQEjT8Kl+cj8dk7Bcjl2fBEiqzowOq8cQFhMNgVirwDQ+cpPBXR pe+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=IS7ftjqDtBSZmCNq7GPEX6jyL928E+AyYQg01TYuY8I=; b=OOR3qVYd7ThpREca7S0UCzxdE9Val+SQCUlOKY2L7Q8WtR6nOQkv+ucky4s1R2Vhm6 0zTmFMEnK1+GKVCjiKIS2VY4bUWeBXQ2fagfqfBYo26j4r3KVisAQV1bL6WJevC+AABE JOIkiRpiBf8QZ6qt0YDxzcCcsBB5rbwhS3RaqG4SGhDmK4F4mKhO3WtIW+BoPF9Z46zo nDl5YdAIK0xyuOnvkFb7kg0LTPwVebOhV6nF5RVlDXCiTMjdHmwsDGnp2JI8vdvlH1xe C/fWoUO4ZJcMujlJQRCQQAG8oeaBVv/v/mUfcji9sKR4Xbe2ymnLZOF+0F58BYwSOc9J 1CLw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW5xLTbGXQBnYm0G5MXNx2922nmHGc/lZCPtMCxt20eVXv4e0Dc gY+ZS9yFj1MUlsfROq+yNmbnddoV9pE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw0WbS/MG+/p2qmk1YwyUvoJFHuJzgDJkOf+erBclg9FHmeKjcWdhXk9Vav4sLhJ8nH4pL7hA== X-Received: by 2002:a50:94ed:: with SMTP id t42mr6091093eda.288.1557428765309; Thu, 09 May 2019 12:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.162] ([2001:bb6:506:8e01:1ce5:7bb2:46e7:6dc5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s7sm55048eda.62.2019.05.09.12.06.04 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 09 May 2019 12:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Niall O'Reilly" X-Google-Original-From: "Niall O'Reilly" To: dbound@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 20:06:02 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.4r5594) Message-ID: <130D3CBF-277E-49FE-B353-6CD8AE15FC61@ucd.ie> In-Reply-To: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> References: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; markup=markdown Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 19:06:09 -0000 On 9 May 2019, at 17:42, John Levine wrote: > For over 30 years the only place anyone has used PTR records has been > in the rDNS trees under in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. Catalog zones are much more recent, and specifically use PTR records. I'm aware that support for these is a BIND-specific feature, and utterly unaware of how much it's being used. > I think that if > you try to use them anywhere else, you'll find way too much software > that has baked in assumptions that they don't belong there. I'm not sure what kind of software might have such assumptions baked in. The very small sample that my provisioning chain includes (Emacs, dnssec-signzone, nsd, unbound, zonemaster) shows no problem of this kind. One significant counterexample is enough, of course. I have a strong suspicion that any provisioning chain needing modification to accommodate innovative uses of PTR would also need work to add support for the new RRtypes proposed in the draft, and that the effort involved in either case might be roughly commensurate. > Note that RFC 1035 says they "are used in special domains". A domain that has a special relationship with another domain is arguably "special". IIUC, advertising such a relationship is the purpose of the new RRtypes proposed in the draft. I'm still coloured "unconvinced". /Niall From nobody Thu May 9 12:42:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C9512013C for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:42:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=LmGCw19z; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=hc7N5cop Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8jK-riBohFI for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 463341200F4 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51737 invoked from network); 9 May 2019 19:42:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=ca17.5cd482a7.k1905; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=rkredLMRSStmw+WJF23oirJl/seoJhFKgbsrJIRnAxw=; b=LmGCw19zvoZf07rxMexWYU2X/Imho0dv/SckyPflKi9u00BUKDr3J3MdRvPJhxfHIg97OFEE5I+weyDW2/Hkt9fNamwmEVTrv8RvtZqfJJbGFo+uhgPeBsoy+wmmS12i51ZAhFx0Bm2/Yw01HNwTH/rzGmR32I2768ZkfgU+ip0xKC5Im0gwfKvqGQetcuxZMeNkfK5pq1Pwa4qjyrsKp4I1mk33pXNObQ0g3G1k+LvnN11kOdjOyvxzeglgmzSb DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=ca17.5cd482a7.k1905; olt=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=rkredLMRSStmw+WJF23oirJl/seoJhFKgbsrJIRnAxw=; b=hc7N5copx2ojDoucXwmTJd/J/l0O8RJMpb3OOCB5MK0trjtR5B4Vz6dM3sI8jDC52o3irUfIjlt4fSSUt7D5YsCpQ8/fY66fBPeWOGwVRxxaSQkmlld+fvHeOjQmG7Aa9ReJFxq5A9v2EHOeCIOdUpgBU9aRGB5w62qrQGMAy7OnFnY9MzOG4b2HCgxSVcBJKS/E0nr9f+LWpbqGrfWfJCb9fnua0KxKQjNxPUdEJKQUFNeRWKZYF6q0z5BkJIq+ Received: from ary.qy ([64.246.232.221]) by imap.iecc.com ([64.57.183.75]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP; 09 May 2019 19:42:31 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id A9AA320139C0F5; Thu, 9 May 2019 15:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: 9 May 2019 15:42:30 -0400 Message-Id: <20190509194230.A9AA320139C0F5@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: dbound@ietf.org Cc: niall.oreilly@ucd.ie In-Reply-To: <130D3CBF-277E-49FE-B353-6CD8AE15FC61@ucd.ie> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 19:42:36 -0000 In article <130D3CBF-277E-49FE-B353-6CD8AE15FC61@ucd.ie> you write: >> I think that if >> you try to use them anywhere else, you'll find way too much software >> that has baked in assumptions that they don't belong there. > >I'm not sure what kind of software might have such assumptions >baked in. The very small sample that my provisioning chain includes >(Emacs, dnssec-signzone, nsd, unbound, zonemaster) shows no problem >of this kind. The usual problem is middleboxes. >I have a strong suspicion that any provisioning chain needing >modification to accommodate innovative uses of PTR would also need >work to add support for the new RRtypes proposed in the draft, and >that the effort involved in either case might be roughly commensurate. Commensurate but different. Adding new rrtypes is a well known misery with the problem being primarily in the provisioning crudware that people use to manage their zones. Finding unhelpful middleboxes is a more distributed problem. From nobody Thu May 9 14:23:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D3C1200B7 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:23:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=tnetconsulting.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FJ3gpxAoKpgy for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [IPv6:2600:3c00:e000:1e9::8849]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 932F61200FA for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id x49LMxsW025873 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 16:23:00 -0500 ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v0.1.0 tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net x49LMxsW025873 Authentication-Results: tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net; arc=none header.d=tnetconsulting.net ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1557436980; cv=none; b=0QmXzfEok9QIdtcJCgWyoK5AdwMqP5yc7BD7hJYPrPSWmmZ7BCmCy/Z9Zt/Z1pOeten1/oSudLNQvCvuyWR1oKkn9m3u973GOA7PufhxtFHGpWeoR4pJ8P7X1mOF4KZTVMPI9kyeKMUHIFgCTn164/KPnVQEXA087vCmnBzGzJ0= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1557436980; c=relaxed/simple; bh=GwRjPa34JippFngnf8wxMALDOpg1eFMwWLBjCyBSmM8=; h=DKIM-Signature:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=1roqL5a0uJ0WHy1RhFAg0XzSU+oadcwuYHRx8ttrX499P0oksfndp3XggXO/Xek2EU4rKMRwmQOgccuqlZqEgtn9BtlHpGtfAF9IM+q/NLbKS6YlZFzJ61Eg4I8qEWw6FpY3cnlfaINIU5jejsoR5v8DzKDEBPjasmCC+quIhcU= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2019; t=1557436980; bh=GwRjPa34JippFngnf8wxMALDOpg1eFMwWLBjCyBSmM8=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=Qmi89qnZWLsdvPKQocBHy954ht/uKrZHZoKqR4V4RP3oez2r8vN/U7+rIIftAIsF6 f53H6n+hBI/9/Q7dvGxnkzVWVYPjZmXnxa7P0X/2+Ylry7hAU/g+IY4zLBewZnq4fC 8trrvf2wdX0irE/mAE0/hJIl19TwhU2wUYGJit/Y= To: dbound@ietf.org References: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> From: Grant Taylor Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: <0b0d9206-2c30-e151-f321-d459bc1e80e8@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:22:59 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190509164241.354EF2013999BB@ary.qy> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms040207090409010909000808" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dbound] draft-brotman-rdbd X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS tree bounds List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 21:23:04 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040207090409010909000808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/9/19 10:42 AM, John Levine wrote: > For over 30 years the only place anyone has used PTR records has been=20 > in the rDNS trees under in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. I've seen PTRs used outside of in-addr.arpa and ip6.arpa. Particularly=20 with RFC 2317 Classless IN-ADDR.ARPA delegation with CNAMEs pointing to=20 names outside of in-addr.arpa / ip6.arpa. Even RFC 2317 has examples=20 reconstructing the in-addr sub-domain structure in other domains in =C2=A7= 5.2. > I think that if you try to use them anywhere else, you'll find way too = > much software that has baked in assumptions that they don't belong ther= e. I've not suffered through that misfortune myself. I seem to recall an intriguing use of PTR records for other information. = I think it had to do with translating service names to the host=20 running said service name without actually altering resolution like a=20 CNAME would. smtp.example.net. IN A 192.0.2.34 smtp.example.net. IN PTR host.example.net. host.example.net. 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