From mailman-owner@ietf.org Fri Feb 1 05:43:35 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA14097 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 05:43:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA27676 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 05:43:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 05:43:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200202011043.FAA27676@optimus.ietf.org> From: mailman-owner@ietf.org Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder To: dcp-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Precedence: bulk X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Session Initiation Protocol This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. 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Passwords for dcp-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- dcp@ietf.org gewN https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/dcp/dcp-web-archive@ietf.org From dcp-admin@ietf.org Tue Feb 5 21:32:52 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA28232 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:32:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18267; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18231 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:32:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ps.pxserver.com ([202.164.189.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA28228 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([202.164.189.225]) by ps.pxserver.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:38:33 +0800 X-Sender: johnx3001@yahoo.com From: John M To: dcp@ietf.org Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:38:33 +0800 Reply-To: johnx3002@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2002 02:38:33.0011 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E75C830:01C1AEB7] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [dcp] JOIN FOR FREE! ... 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Your email address will be automatically de-activated in our list if you don't reply in this mail. _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 03:24:51 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24282 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:24:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA04282; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:24:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA04237 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (albatross-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [193.180.251.46]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA24276 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from esealnt462.al.sw.ericsson.se (ESEALNT462.al.sw.ericsson.se [153.88.251.62]) by albatross.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.12.1/8.12.1/WIREfire-1.4) with SMTP id g1M8O3Zc027337 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:24:04 +0100 (MET) Received: FROM esealnt742.al.sw.ericsson.se BY esealnt462.al.sw.ericsson.se ; Fri Feb 22 09:24:03 2002 +0100 Received: by esealnt742.al.sw.ericsson.se with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: <21B25F729760D51198BF0002A56B386AFF4812@esealnt852> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_H=E5kansson_=28EPL=29?= To: "'dcp@ietf.org'" Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:23:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id DAA04240 Subject: [dcp] Congestion Control for VoIP Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I would like to start with saying that I am sorry for my ignorance, since I am sure this topic has already been extensively treated. However, I would like to know, if there anywhere is an ongoing discussion or conclusion on congestion control for VoIP within the IETF. VoIP usually involves some sort of speech codec that produces a new frame once every 10, 20 or 30 ms. And in order to have a good conversational quality the round-trip time cannot be too long, this often forces the application to pack only one speech frame in every packet. To slow-start does not really make sense when the service requires a new packet to be sent every 20 (or 10 or 30) ms , at least not when the round-trip time is long. And to halve the bit rate in case of a packet loss is not really a possibility if a low-bit rate speech codec is used. So in summary, I would be very grateful for any advice on where congestion control for VoIP has been discussed within the IETF, and for sources of information on this topic. Best Regards, Stefan Håkansson Ericsson AB stefan.hakansson@epl.ericsson.se _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 12:00:10 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10839 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:00:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06634; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06549 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:00:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (fmfdns02.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10818 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from fmsmsxvs041.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxv041-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.48.109]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.51 2002/02/19 21:12:32 root Exp $) with SMTP id RAA07623 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:00:00 GMT Received: from fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com ([132.233.42.26]) by fmsmsxvs041.fm.intel.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.16) with SMTP id M2002022209004315075 ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:00:43 -0800 Received: by fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1Y30GZFA>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:58 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Krithivas, Ramamurthy" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27Stefan_H=E5kansson_=28EPL=29=27?=, "'dcp@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [dcp] Congestion Control for VoIP Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id MAA06555 Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stefan, A starting point would be IETF's Audio-Video Transport Working Group. Suggest that you take a look at the RTP (Real Time Protocol, RFC1889) draft. I "believe" that the function of RTCP (Real Time Control Protocol) is to provide feedback (congestion control) functionality for the RTP (streams). http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1889.txt http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1890.txt R> Krithivas -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Håkansson (EPL) [mailto:Stefan.Hakansson@epl.ericsson.se] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:23 AM To: 'dcp@ietf.org' Subject: [dcp] Congestion Control for VoIP Hi, I would like to start with saying that I am sorry for my ignorance, since I am sure this topic has already been extensively treated. However, I would like to know, if there anywhere is an ongoing discussion or conclusion on congestion control for VoIP within the IETF. VoIP usually involves some sort of speech codec that produces a new frame once every 10, 20 or 30 ms. And in order to have a good conversational quality the round-trip time cannot be too long, this often forces the application to pack only one speech frame in every packet. To slow-start does not really make sense when the service requires a new packet to be sent every 20 (or 10 or 30) ms , at least not when the round-trip time is long. And to halve the bit rate in case of a packet loss is not really a possibility if a low-bit rate speech codec is used. So in summary, I would be very grateful for any advice on where congestion control for VoIP has been discussed within the IETF, and for sources of information on this topic. Best Regards, Stefan Håkansson Ericsson AB stefan.hakansson@epl.ericsson.se _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 15:22:21 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21732 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:22:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23361; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:21:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23328 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:21:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (elk.icir.org [192.150.187.21]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21710 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:21:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elk.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1MKLRc38185 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:21:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from floyd@elk.icir.org) Message-Id: <200202222021.g1MKLRc38185@elk.icir.org> To: dcp@ietf.org From: Sally Floyd Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:21:27 -0800 Subject: [dcp] a problem statement for DCP Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org We have written a first pass of a problem statement for DCP, and submitted it to the internet-drafts directory as draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt. A local copy is available from: http://www.icir.org/floyd/papers/draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt We would welcome input on the problem statement document (or on any of the technical issues related to DCP). - Sally DCP: http://www.icir.org/kohler/dcp/ _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 05:18:32 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09602 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04647; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04614 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk (exim@mta1.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.0.15]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09599 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from shep.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.8.11] helo=cl.cam.ac.uk ident=jac22) by wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.092 #1) id 16evjb-00069v-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:18:23 +0000 To: Sally Floyd cc: dcp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dcp] a problem statement for DCP In-Reply-To: Message from Sally Floyd of "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:21:27 PST." <200202222021.g1MKLRc38185@elk.icir.org> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:18:22 +0000 From: Jon Crowcroft Message-Id: Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org one possibly useful question to ask is whether a protocol such as PGM and also the ALC family of schemes, which have been designed for 1-n but has some of the propertiest this draft requests, might work quite well for n=1 (yes, i asked this question in RMT as well, but that was to compare RMT protocols with TCP - pgm has a specific mode of operation , for example, where "reliability" is downgraded if time-bounded delivery and data freshness are a need... In message <200202222021.g1MKLRc38185@elk.icir.org>, Sally Floyd typed: >>We have written a first pass of a problem statement for DCP, and >>submitted it to the internet-drafts directory as >>draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt. A local copy is available from: >> >> http://www.icir.org/floyd/papers/draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt >> >>We would welcome input on the problem statement document (or on >>any of the technical issues related to DCP). >> >>- Sally >>DCP: http://www.icir.org/kohler/dcp/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dcp mailing list >>dcp@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp cheers jon _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 18:52:18 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04408 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25731; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:52:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25696 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (elk.icir.org [192.150.187.21]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04405 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elk.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1PNqCc74778; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from floyd@elk.icir.org) Message-Id: <200202252352.g1PNqCc74778@elk.icir.org> To: Jon Crowcroft cc: dcp@ietf.org From: Sally Floyd Subject: Re: [dcp] a problem statement for DCP Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:52:12 -0800 Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org >one possibly useful question to ask is >whether a protocol such as PGM >and also the ALC family of schemes, >which have been designed for 1-n >but has some of the propertiest this draft >requests, might work quite well for n=1 Yep, I agree that that is a question to ask. I think the answer is pretty clear that they aren't the best solutions for the DCP problem statement, but I will try to write up a paragraph saying that for the next revision of the draft. - Sally http://www.icir.org/floyd/ _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp From dcp-admin@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 13:52:41 2002 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09948 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19937; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19902 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (elk.icir.org [192.150.187.21]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09940 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:52:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from elk.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elk.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1RIqYc95948 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:52:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from floyd@elk.icir.org) Message-Id: <200202271852.g1RIqYc95948@elk.icir.org> To: dcp@ietf.org From: Sally Floyd Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:52:34 -0800 Subject: [dcp] draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt Sender: dcp-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: dcp-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Datagram Control Protocol X-BeenThere: dcp@ietf.org ------- Forwarded Message Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:25:24 -0500 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Problem Statement for DCP Author(s) : S. Floyd et al. Filename : draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 26-Feb-02 This document gives the problem statement underlying the development of an unreliable transport protocol incorporating end-to-end congestion control. This is also the problem statement underlying the development of DCP, the Datagram Control Protocol. DCP implements a congestion-controlled, unreliable flow of datagrams suitable for use by applications such as streaming media or on-line games. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20020226130847.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-floyd-dcp-problem-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20020226130847.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- ------- End of Forwarded Message _______________________________________________ dcp mailing list dcp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dcp