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Subject: Re: [Dime] [dime] #65 (draft-ietf-dime-ovli): Definition of messages impacted by host overload report
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#65: Definition of messages impacted by host overload report

Changes (by srdonovan@usdonovans.com):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


Comment:

 Changed the wording to the following:

       Either the Destination-Host AVP is present in the request and its
 value

       matches the value of the Origin-Host AVP of the received message

       that contained the OC-OLR AVP; or the Destination-Host is not
 present

       in the request but the value of peer identity associated with the
 connection

       used to send the request matches the value of the Origin-Host AVP of
 the

       received message that contained the OC-OLR AVP.

-- 
-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 Reporter:                           |       Owner:  draft-ietf-dime-
  srdonovan@usdonovans.com           |  ovli@tools.ietf.org
     Type:  defect                   |      Status:  closed
 Priority:  major                    |   Milestone:
Component:  draft-ietf-dime-ovli     |     Version:
 Severity:  Active WG Document       |  Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:                           |
-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/dime/trac/ticket/65#comment:1>
dime <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dime/>


From devoss.ind@gmail.com  Fri May  2 05:32:06 2014
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Subject: [Dime] About DCCA
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--047d7b5db066ff8fc504f869f720
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Hi,

I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in DCCA. Can
we find any formulae for it. I went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but
could not find the exact derivation for it. Please help me.


Regards,
Devoss

--047d7b5db066ff8fc504f869f720
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I have a question regardin=
g the way multiplier is calculated in DCCA. Can we find any formulae for it=
. I went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but could not find the exact der=
ivation for it. Please help me.<br>
<br><br></div>Regards,<br></div>Devoss<br></div>

--047d7b5db066ff8fc504f869f720--


From nobody Fri May  2 06:15:58 2014
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--001a1134f860661d6a04f86a09a9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi,

I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in DCCA. Can
we find any formulae for it. I went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but
could not find the exact derivation for it. Please help me.


Regards,
Devoss


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM, devoss ind <devoss.ind@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in DCCA. Can
> we find any formulae for it. I went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but
> could not find the exact derivation for it. Please help me.
>
>
> Regards,
> Devoss
>

--001a1134f860661d6a04f86a09a9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I have a question regardin=
g the way=20
multiplier is calculated in DCCA. Can we find any formulae for it. I=20
went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but could not find the exact=20
derivation for it. Please help me.<br>
<br><br></div>Regards,<br></div>Devoss</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM, devoss ind <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:devoss.ind@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">devoss.ind@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br><=
/div>I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in DCCA. =
Can we find any formulae for it. I went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, b=
ut could not find the exact derivation for it. Please help me.<br>

<br><br></div>Regards,<br></div>Devoss<br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1134f860661d6a04f86a09a9--


From nobody Fri May  2 06:16:00 2014
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Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 08:15:57 -0500
From: Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>
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Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------030704000200030109020602
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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All,

I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for
the DOIC draft.

For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being
required.  As such, I propose that we close this issue.

If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.

Regards,

Steve

--------------030704000200030109020602
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All,<br>
      <br>
      I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues
      for the DOIC draft.<br>
      <br>
      For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being
      required.&nbsp; As such, I propose that we close this issue.<br>
      <br>
      If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.<br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      <br>
      Steve<br>
    </font>
  </body>
</html>

--------------030704000200030109020602--


From nobody Fri May  2 06:23:45 2014
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dime/PIAr3JLOC6hTF15kfJ1BKfeyATg
Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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All,

I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific
overload reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow
on extension.

To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:

A.4 Client specific overload reports

This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload
report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a
reporting node to send different overload reports, with different
reduction percentages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.

If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the
spec and close this issue.

Regards,

Steve

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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
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    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All,<br>
      <br>
      I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific
      overload reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a
      follow on extension.<br>
      <br>
      To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:<br>
      <br>
      A.4 Client specific overload reports<br>
      <br>
      This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single
      overload report to all reacting nodes.&nbsp; This proposed extension
      would allow a reporting node to send different overload reports,
      with different reduction percentages (assuming the loss algorithm)
      to individual clients. <br>
      <br>
      If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version
      of the spec and close this issue.<br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      <br>
      Steve<br>
    </font>
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--------------010107030607040806050506--


From nobody Fri May  2 06:30:41 2014
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Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Issue #49
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All,

I believe that this issue was addressed in the -02 version of the draft
by requiring that OC-Supported-Features be carried in every request and
response.  As such, I propose that this issue can be closed.

If I don't hear any objections I will close this issue early next week.

Regards,

Steve

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    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All,<br>
      <br>
      I believe that this issue was addressed in the -02 version of the
      draft by requiring that OC-Supported-Features be carried in every
      request and response.&nbsp; As such, I propose that this issue can be
      closed.<br>
      <br>
      If I don't hear any objections I will close this issue early next
      week.<br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      <br>
      Steve<br>
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From nobody Sat May  3 18:43:19 2014
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From: "Shishufeng (Susan)" <susan.shishufeng@huawei.com>
To: Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54
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Hello Steve,

May I know when and how this AVP becomes required? My understanding is that=
 there is no strong reason to make it as mandatory.

Best Regards,
Susan

From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM
To: dime@ietf.org
Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54

All,

I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for the D=
OIC draft.

For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being required.  =
As such, I propose that we close this issue.

If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.

Regards,

Steve

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello Stev=
e,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">May I know=
 when and how this AVP becomes required? My understanding is that there is =
no strong reason to make it as mandatory.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best Regar=
ds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Susan<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Steve Donovan [mail=
to:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> dime@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">All,<br>
<br>
I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for the D=
OIC draft.<br>
<br>
For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being required.&n=
bsp; As such, I propose that we close this issue.<br>
<br>
If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: ext Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Steve,

I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rather t=
han with an extension.
I have outlined a very simple approach:

-          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are cli=
ents or agents.

-          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the rea=
cting node is an agent.

Ulrich

From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donovan
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
To: dime@ietf.org
Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

All,

I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overload =
reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on extensio=
n.

To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:

A.4 Client specific overload reports

This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload re=
port to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a reportin=
g node to send different overload reports, with different reduction percent=
ages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.

If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the sp=
ec and close this issue.

Regards,

Steve

--_000_5BCBA1FC2B7F0B4C9D935572D9000668151E42B1DEMUMBX014nsnin_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Steve,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I still be=
lieve it is better to address the issue in the base spec rather than with a=
n extension.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I have out=
lined a very simple approach:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><sp=
an style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Re=
acting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are clients or agent=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><sp=
an style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Re=
porting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the reacting node is=
 an agent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ulrich<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> DiME [mailto:dime-b=
ounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Steve Donovan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> dime@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All,<br>
<br>
I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overload =
reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on extensio=
n.<br>
<br>
To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:<br>
<br>
A.4 Client specific overload reports<br>
<br>
This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload re=
port to all reacting nodes.&nbsp; This proposed extension would allow a rep=
orting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction pe=
rcentages (assuming the loss algorithm)
 to individual clients. <br>
<br>
If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the sp=
ec and close this issue.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Mon May  5 07:09:38 2014
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From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
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To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our =
initial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd =
hate to delay completion of the base draft over it.

Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought =
through all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need =
"agent-specific" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't =
require different normative language for agents and clients when acting =
as reporting nodes?

My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably =
optional) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" =
reacting-node. But we would need to think through use cases first.

On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:

> Steve,
> =20
> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec =
rather than with an extension.
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they =
are clients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when =
the reacting node is an agent.
> =20
> Ulrich
> =20
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve =
Donovan
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
> To: dime@ietf.org
> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
> =20
> All,
>=20
> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific =
overload reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow =
on extension.
>=20
> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>=20
> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>=20
> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single =
overload report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would =
allow a reporting node to send different overload reports, with =
different reduction percentages (assuming the loss algorithm) to =
individual clients.=20
>=20
> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of =
the spec and close this issue.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime


From nobody Tue May  6 02:59:32 2014
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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--_002_5BCBA1FC2B7F0B4C9D935572D9000668151E4532DEMUMBX014nsnin_
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Ben,

I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity of =
the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.

Please find proposed modifications attached.

Comments are welcome.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our initi=
al requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate to d=
elay completion of the base draft over it.

Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought through a=
ll the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specific" =
overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different no=
rmative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?

My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably optional)=
 AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node. B=
ut we would need to think through use cases first.

On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Steve,
> =20
> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rather=
 than with an extension.
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are c=
lients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the r=
eacting node is an agent.
> =20
> Ulrich
> =20
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donovan
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
> To: dime@ietf.org
> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
> =20
> All,
>=20
> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overloa=
d reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on extens=
ion.
>=20
> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>=20
> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>=20
> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload =
report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a report=
ing node to send different overload reports, with different reduction perce=
ntages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>=20
> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the =
spec and close this issue.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime


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From nobody Tue May  6 06:47:38 2014
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Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 08:47:28 -0500
From: Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dime/WBB0ZuU_6XnfbBG7nXwv-Cdtci4
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54
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--------------040309020707010104040507
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Susan,

I made the change based on direction set by Lionel as working group 
chair and document shepherd.

Regards,

Steve

On 5/3/14, 8:42 PM, Shishufeng (Susan) wrote:
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> May I know when and how this AVP becomes required? My understanding is 
> that there is no strong reason to make it as mandatory.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Susan
>
> *From:*Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM
> *To:* dime@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54
>
> All,
>
> I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for 
> the DOIC draft.
>
> For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being 
> required.  As such, I propose that we close this issue.
>
> If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>


--------------040309020707010104040507
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  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Susan,<br>
    <br>
    I made the change based on direction set by Lionel as working group
    chair and document shepherd.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    <br>
    Steve<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/3/14, 8:42 PM, Shishufeng (Susan)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:26C84DFD55BC3040A45BF70926E55F2587C4E154@SZXEMA512-MBX.china.huawei.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Hello Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">May I know when and how this AVP becomes
            required? My understanding is that there is no strong reason
            to make it as mandatory.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">Susan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
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            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Steve Donovan
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com">mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dime@ietf.org">dime@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">All,<br>
            <br>
            I am starting the processing of trying to address the open
            issues for the DOIC draft.<br>
            <br>
            For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as
            being required.&nbsp; As such, I propose that we close this
            issue.<br>
            <br>
            If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next
            week.<br>
            <br>
            Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------040309020707010104040507--


From nobody Tue May  6 07:13:09 2014
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From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hi Ulrich,

Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? =
I do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office =
files very well.

Thanks!

Ben.

On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:

> Ben,
>=20
> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter =
identity of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>=20
> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>=20
> Comments are welcome.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our =
initial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd =
hate to delay completion of the base draft over it.
>=20
> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought =
through all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need =
"agent-specific" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't =
require different normative language for agents and clients when acting =
as reporting nodes?
>=20
> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably =
optional) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" =
reacting-node. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>=20
> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Steve,
>>=20
>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec =
rather than with an extension.
>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they =
are clients or agents.
>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when =
the reacting node is an agent.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve =
Donovan
>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>> To: dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> All,
>>=20
>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific =
overload reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow =
on extension.
>>=20
>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>=20
>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>=20
>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single =
overload report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would =
allow a reporting node to send different overload reports, with =
different reduction percentages (assuming the loss algorithm) to =
individual clients.=20
>>=20
>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of =
the spec and close this issue.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>>=20
>> Steve
>> _______________________________________________
>> DiME mailing list
>> DiME@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>


From nobody Tue May  6 07:57:58 2014
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From: Maria Cruz Bartolome <maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com>
To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>, ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Dear Ulrich,

Your proposal seems to be generic, i.e. any node, either client or agent, w=
ill be able to support "client-specific-throttling". Is this your intention=
?
If so, I was expecting something different according you your proposal:
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are c=
lients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the r=
eacting node is an agent.

Could you clarify please?
Best regards
/MCruz

-----Original Message-----
From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN -=
 DE/Munich)
Sent: martes, 06 de mayo de 2014 11:59
To: ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Ben,

I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity of =
the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.

Please find proposed modifications attached.

Comments are welcome.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our initi=
al requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate to d=
elay completion of the base draft over it.

Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought through a=
ll the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specific" =
overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different no=
rmative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?

My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably optional)=
 AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node. B=
ut we would need to think through use cases first.

On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Steve,
> =20
> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rather=
 than with an extension.
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are c=
lients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the r=
eacting node is an agent.
> =20
> Ulrich
> =20
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donovan
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
> To: dime@ietf.org
> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
> =20
> All,
>=20
> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overloa=
d reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on extens=
ion.
>=20
> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>=20
> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>=20
> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload =
report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a report=
ing node to send different overload reports, with different reduction perce=
ntages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>=20
> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the =
spec and close this issue.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime


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To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to =
respond point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for =
any DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear =
to me how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.)

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the =
origin-host AVP en route.=20

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or =
not,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node =
somewhere in the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the =
associated request. Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original =
request requires extra state and extra steps.


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for =
you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office =
attachment? I do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms =
office files very well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter =
identity of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our =
initial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd =
hate to delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought =
through all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need =
"agent-specific" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't =
require different normative language for agents and clients when acting =
as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably =
optional) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" =
reacting-node. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) =
<ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec =
rather than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they =
are clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when =
the reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve =
Donovan
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific =
overload reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow =
on extension.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single =
overload report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would =
allow a reporting node to send different overload reports, with =
different reduction percentages (assuming the loss algorithm) to =
individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of =
the spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


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From: "Shishufeng (Susan)" <susan.shishufeng@huawei.com>
To: Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54
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Hi Steve,

As I know, there was no conclusion on that after last email exchange on tha=
t.

As I clarified, with this AVP as mandatory, it does not bring benefit while=
 may introduce error cases. There is no need for the server to always add t=
his useless AVP in the report. I still prefer to keep it as optional, which=
 was supported by most of 3GPP colleagues. As mentioned many times, this Di=
ameter overload control feature will be mainly used by 3GPP. And to my know=
ledge, all people could live with it as optional. Thus please revert the ch=
ange if possible.

Best Regards,
Susan

From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:47 PM
To: Shishufeng (Susan); dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54

Susan,

I made the change based on direction set by Lionel as working group chair a=
nd document shepherd.

Regards,

Steve
On 5/3/14, 8:42 PM, Shishufeng (Susan) wrote:
Hello Steve,

May I know when and how this AVP becomes required? My understanding is that=
 there is no strong reason to make it as mandatory.

Best Regards,
Susan

From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM
To: dime@ietf.org<mailto:dime@ietf.org>
Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54

All,

I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for the D=
OIC draft.

For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being required.  =
As such, I propose that we close this issue.

If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.

Regards,

Steve


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Steve,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As I know,=
 there was no conclusion on that after last email exchange on that.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As I clari=
fied, with this AVP as mandatory, it does not bring benefit while may intro=
duce error cases. There is no need for the server to always
 add this useless AVP in the report. I still prefer to keep it as optional,=
 which was supported by most of 3GPP colleagues. As mentioned many times, t=
his Diameter overload control feature will be mainly used by 3GPP. And to m=
y knowledge, all people could live
 with it as optional. Thus please revert the change if possible.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best Regar=
ds,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Susan<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Steve Donovan [mail=
to:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shishufeng (Susan); dime@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
Susan,<br>
<br>
I made the change based on direction set by Lionel as working group chair a=
nd document shepherd.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 5/3/14, 8:42 PM, Shishufeng =
(Susan) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello Stev=
e,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">May I know=
 when and how this AVP becomes required? My understanding is that there is =
no strong reason to make it as mandatory.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best Regar=
ds,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Susan</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Steve Donovan [<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com">mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com</a>=
]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 02, 2014 9:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dime@ietf.org">dime@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dime] DOIC: Proposal to close #54</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">All,<br>
<br>
I am starting the processing of trying to address the open issues for the D=
OIC draft.<br>
<br>
For issue #54, the -02 draft shows the report-type AVP as being required.&n=
bsp; As such, I propose that we close this issue.<br>
<br>
If I don't hear any objections I will close it early next week.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: ext Maria Cruz Bartolome <maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com>, "ext Ben Campbell" <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
Thread-Index: AQHPZgm+yrXT2l/wZk6F5wDpr1R4dpsxuVOAgAAwT4CAAWoaQIAAViiggAETHlA=
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Dear Maria Cruz,

thank you for your comment.

Indeed, my original proposal was to limit client specific throttling suppor=
t to clients (which anyway support it) and not specifying/recommending/allo=
wing it for agents.=20

The mechanism outlined, however, allows agents to implement client specific=
 throttling, but there are issues:
- agents don't anyway support it (unlike clients do)
- complexity for agents supporting client specific throttling is quite high
- dependencies between client-specific and client-independent throttling ne=
ed to be sorted out
- client-specific throttling support by agents (which do DOIC on behalf of =
non-DOIC clients) may not be needed in long term as more and more clients a=
re expected to support DOIC in the future

In order to simplify things my proposal would be to say that agents are not=
 expected to support client-specific throttling.

Best regards
Ulrich



-----Original Message-----
From: ext Maria Cruz Bartolome [mailto:maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:58 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Dear Ulrich,

Your proposal seems to be generic, i.e. any node, either client or agent, w=
ill be able to support "client-specific-throttling". Is this your intention=
?
If so, I was expecting something different according you your proposal:
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are c=
lients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the r=
eacting node is an agent.

Could you clarify please?
Best regards
/MCruz

-----Original Message-----
From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN -=
 DE/Munich)
Sent: martes, 06 de mayo de 2014 11:59
To: ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Ben,

I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity of =
the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.

Please find proposed modifications attached.

Comments are welcome.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our initi=
al requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate to d=
elay completion of the base draft over it.

Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought through a=
ll the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specific" =
overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different no=
rmative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?

My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably optional)=
 AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node. B=
ut we would need to think through use cases first.

On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Steve,
> =20
> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rather=
 than with an extension.
> I have outlined a very simple approach:
> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are c=
lients or agents.
> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the r=
eacting node is an agent.
> =20
> Ulrich
> =20
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donovan
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
> To: dime@ietf.org
> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
> =20
> All,
>=20
> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overloa=
d reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on extens=
ion.
>=20
> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>=20
> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>=20
> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overload =
report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a report=
ing node to send different overload reports, with different reduction perce=
ntages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>=20
> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of the =
spec and close this issue.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime


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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
Thread-Index: AQHPZgm+yrXT2l/wZk6F5wDpr1R4dpsxuVOAgAAwT4CAAWoaQIAAKTiAgAAr/pD//+J+AIABP5QA
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hi Ben,

please see inline

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:05 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to respond =
point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for any=
 DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear to me=
 how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.)
<Ulrich>The 3GPP requirement from 29.809 clause 6.4.7 is "overload mitigati=
on differentiation per client", it is not "overload mitigation differentiat=
ion per reacting node". In configurations like this:

+----+       +----+      +---+
| C1 |-------| A1 |------|   |
+----+ \   / +----+      |   |
        \ /              |   |
         X               | S | =20
        / \              |   |
+----+ /   \ +----+      |   |     =20
| C2 |-------| A2 |------|   |
+----+       +----+      +---+
=20
S may want to request a reduction of C1-to-S traffic (no matter whether rou=
ted via A1 or A2), while C2-to-S traffic (no matter whether routed via A1 o=
r A2) is not throttled.

There is no requirement to let S request a reduction of A1-to-S traffic (no=
 matter whether originated by C1 or C2), while A2-to-S traffic (no matter w=
hether originated by C1 or C2) is not throttled. What would be the rational=
 for such a requirement?</Ulrich>

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the origin-hos=
t AVP en route.=20
<Ulrich> This issue #66. Issue #66 seems to address answer messages only. I=
s your concern with request messages?</Ulrich>

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or no=
t,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node somewhere i=
n the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the associated request.=
 Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original request requires extra s=
tate and extra steps.
<Ulrich>I agree. However, your concern is only relevant for agent-support o=
f client specific throttling. If we agree to address only client-support of=
 client specific throttling in the draft (see my response to MCruz), this i=
ssue disappears.  Anyway, my suggested text for clause 4.6  needs to be rev=
ised as answer messages do not contain Destination-Host/Destination-Realm.<=
/Ulrich>


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? I=
 do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office files ve=
ry well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe=
@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity =
of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our in=
itial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate t=
o delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought throug=
h all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specifi=
c" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different=
 normative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably option=
al) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node=
. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wieh=
e@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rath=
er than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are=
 clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the=
 reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donova=
n
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overl=
oad reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on exte=
nsion.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overloa=
d report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a repo=
rting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction per=
centages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of th=
e spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


From nobody Wed May  7 06:52:52 2014
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Subject: [Dime] About DCCA
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--089e0141a466d395f804f8cfad04
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi,

I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in case of
credit pool concept of DCCA. Can we find any formulae for it. I went thru
the complete RFC4006 for it, but could not find the exact derivation for
it. Please help me.


Regards,
Devoss

--089e0141a466d395f804f8cfad04
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I have a question regarding the way 
multiplier is calculated in case of credit pool concept of DCCA. Can we find any formulae for it. I 
went thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but could not find the exact 
derivation for it. Please help me.<br>
<br><br></div>Regards,<br></div>Devoss</div>

--089e0141a466d395f804f8cfad04--


From nobody Wed May  7 22:44:49 2014
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From: Marco Stura <mstura@ooredoo.com>
To: "dime@ietf.org list" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question on realm validity in answer messages
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Dear all,

I'm facing the following situation.

|---------------------------- SPrealm--------------------------------------=
------------|

                                                                           =
        _----------- Server 1(realm a)
                                                                           =
     _
                                                                           =
  _
Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) ---------------- Server 2(realm b)
                                                                           =
 _
                                                                           =
     _
                                                                           =
        _
                                                                           =
            ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)


The implementation is such that the Proxy is load balancing by selecting th=
e internal Server where the subscriber data are provisioned, based on user =
identity.
The Client is sending an application specific authorization request to the =
Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm =3D=3D SPrealm.
The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPrealm and send the request =
there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.
Server 2 processes the request generates an answer and send it to the Proxy=
 with Origin-Host =3D=3D server2@realm b, Origin-Realm =3D=3D realm b.
The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that receives a successful auth=
orization answer from a realm that is different from the one supposed to se=
rve the user (as in the NAI).
The client terminates the session with STR to Destination-Host =3D=3D serve=
r2@realm b, Destination-Realm =3D=3D realm b, Termination-Cause =3D=3D Diam=
eter_bad_answer

The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same implementation, which appare=
ntly requires this kind of configuration to work.
In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly stated how to deal with case=
s where a successful authorization answer is coming from a server located i=
n a different realm than the home realm of the user (as per NAI).
However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the clie=
nt IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may looks to the=
 client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don't remember any disc=
ussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol development time.....

Any opinion on this scenario?

BR,
Marco





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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;m facing the following situation.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">|---------------------------- SPrealm---------------=
-----------------------------------|</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_---=
-------- Server 1(realm a)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_ &nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) -----------=
----- Server 2(realm b)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The implementation is such that the Proxy is load ba=
lancing by selecting the internal Server where the subscriber data are prov=
isioned, based on user identity.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The Client is sending an application specific author=
ization request to the Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm =3D=3D=
 SPrealm.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPreal=
m and send the request there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Server 2 processes the request generates an answer a=
nd send it to the Proxy with Origin-Host =3D=3D server2@realm b, Origin-Rea=
lm =3D=3D realm b.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that rec=
eives a successful authorization answer from a realm that is different from=
 the one supposed to serve the user (as in the NAI).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The client terminates the session with STR to Destin=
ation-Host =3D=3D server2@realm b, Destination-Realm =3D=3D realm b, Termin=
ation-Cause =3D=3D Diameter_bad_answer</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same imple=
mentation, which apparently requires this kind of configuration to work.</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly state=
d how to deal with cases where a successful authorization answer is coming =
from a server located in a different realm than the home realm of the user =
(as per NAI).
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, to say the least, this configuration is qui=
te bizarre and the client IMHO is right to terminate the session as this be=
havior may looks to the client like an answer from a malicious node. But I =
don&#8217;t remember any discussion on this
 aspects back at the Diameter protocol development time&#8230;..</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any opinion on this scenario?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BR,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Marco</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"1"><br>
The information in this email and any attachments thereto may contain infor=
mation that is confidential, protected by intellectual property rights, and=
 may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Acc=
ess to this email by anyone else
 is unauthorized. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of the info=
rmation contained herein by persons other than the designated addressee is =
unauthorized and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, yo=
u should delete the message immediately
 from your system. If you believe that you have received this email in erro=
r, please contact the sender. Any views expressed in this email and its att=
achments are those of the individual sender except where the sender express=
ly states them to be the views of
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From nobody Wed May  7 23:15:47 2014
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Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 09:15:35 +0300
From: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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To: devoss ind <devoss.ind@gmail.com>, dime@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Dime] About DCCA
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You might want to ask the original authors. At least one of them is 
still around, see a mail from today: 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dime/current/msg07437.html

- Jouni

5/7/2014 4:52 PM, devoss ind kirjoitti:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding the way multiplier is calculated in case of
> credit pool concept of DCCA. Can we find any formulae for it. I went
> thru the complete RFC4006 for it, but could not find the exact
> derivation for it. Please help me.
>
>
> Regards,
> Devoss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>


From nobody Thu May  8 03:02:09 2014
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From: Ivan Skytte =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgensen?= <isj-dime@i1.dk>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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On Thursday 08 May 2014 05:44:18 Marco Stura wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I'm facing the following situation.
> 
[proxy modifies destination-realm ni requests, but doesn't modify origin-realm in the answer coming back]
...
> However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the client IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may looks to the client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don't remember any discussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol development time.....
> 
> Any opinion on this scenario?

I have always found the Origin-Realm AVP of dubious value. Checks on acceptable origins/paths of an answer is done on the Route-Record AVP - not the origin-host/origin-realm.

On the other hand, the proxy in your example modifies the destination-realm in the request, so logically it should modify the origin-realm in the answer.

/isj


From nobody Thu May  8 08:00:28 2014
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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(Although I did not contribute to Diameter protocol development, I have bee=
n involved in many deep discussions on these types of configurations.)

In my opinion, there are several problems with that deployment:
1. The client and servers should be in different realms. All units in the s=
ame realm should be functionally equivalent.
2. Proxies providing a false front for a group of servers add complexity. T=
hey are the Diameter equivalent of NAT. If possible, try to have the client=
 talk to the real realm and hosts of the server. It seems the proxy you des=
cribe has a bug that it does not reverse-NAT (by analogy) the return packet=
s.
3. It seems the servers should all be in the same realm.

I think the client is right to expect an answer from the realm it sent a re=
quest to. Arguably it could be more forgiving...

Here is the more elegant approach:
If all of the servers were in the same realm (say realmX), a conversation w=
ould work like this:
- client sends message to Dest-Realm=3DrealmX, (Dest-Host unspecified)
- client realm-routing indicates the proxy can handle it and forwards to pr=
oxy.
- based on lack of Dest-Host, proxy realm-routing table determines any of S=
ervers 1-3 (all of realmX) can handle it.
- the proxy selects a host in realmX (e.g., Server1) by any appropriate alg=
orithm
- e.g., Server1 answers the message with Origin-Host=3DServer1 and Origin-R=
ealm=3DrealmX
- proxy transparently passes the Origin-Host=3DServer1 and Origin-Realm=3Dr=
ealmX
- if client needs to continue the session, the client makes subsequent requ=
ests to Dest-Host=3DServer1 and Dest-Realm=3DrealmX

The beauty of this approach (which I believe the Diameter designers intende=
d) is that the Proxy does not need to keep session state, since the client =
remembers the host it connected to. You can have multiple proxies for redun=
dancy and they do not require shared session state.


David Dolson
Senior Software Architect
Sandvine


________________________________
From: DiME [dime-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Marco Stura [mstura@ooredoo=
.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:44 AM
To: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages

Dear all,

I=92m facing the following situation.

|---------------------------- SPrealm--------------------------------------=
------------|

                                                                           =
        _----------- Server 1(realm a)
                                                                           =
     _
                                                                           =
  _
Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) ---------------- Server 2(realm b)
                                                                           =
 _
                                                                           =
     _
                                                                           =
        _
                                                                           =
            ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)


The implementation is such that the Proxy is load balancing by selecting th=
e internal Server where the subscriber data are provisioned, based on user =
identity.
The Client is sending an application specific authorization request to the =
Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm =3D=3D SPrealm.
The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPrealm and send the request =
there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.
Server 2 processes the request generates an answer and send it to the Proxy=
 with Origin-Host =3D=3D server2@realm b, Origin-Realm =3D=3D realm b.
The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that receives a successful auth=
orization answer from a realm that is different from the one supposed to se=
rve the user (as in the NAI).
The client terminates the session with STR to Destination-Host =3D=3D serve=
r2@realm b, Destination-Realm =3D=3D realm b, Termination-Cause =3D=3D Diam=
eter_bad_answer

The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same implementation, which appare=
ntly requires this kind of configuration to work.
In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly stated how to deal with case=
s where a successful authorization answer is coming from a server located i=
n a different realm than the home realm of the user (as per NAI).
However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the clie=
nt IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may looks to the=
 client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don=92t remember any di=
scussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol development time=85.=
.

Any opinion on this scenario?

BR,
Marco





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Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 22:07:54 +0300
From: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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Your load balancer is misbehaving. Unfortunately you don't find any 
exact specification language to prohibit the proxy vendor doing this.

- Jouni



5/8/2014 8:44 AM, Marco Stura kirjoitti:
> Dear all,
>
> I’m facing the following situation.
>
> |----------------------------
> SPrealm--------------------------------------------------|
>
>                                                                                     _----------- Server 1(realm a)
>
>
>                                   _
>
>                                                                               _
>
> Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) ---------------- Server 2(realm b)
>
>                                                                              _
>
>
>                                                        _
>
>                                                                                     _
>
>                                                                                         ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)
>
> The implementation is such that the Proxy is load balancing by selecting
> the internal Server where the subscriber data are provisioned, based on
> user identity.
>
> The Client is sending an application specific authorization request to
> the Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm == SPrealm.
>
> The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPrealm and send the
> request there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.
>
> Server 2 processes the request generates an answer and send it to the
> Proxy with Origin-Host == server2@realm b, Origin-Realm == realm b.
>
> The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that receives a successful
> authorization answer from a realm that is different from the one
> supposed to serve the user (as in the NAI).
>
> The client terminates the session with STR to Destination-Host ==
> server2@realm b, Destination-Realm == realm b, Termination-Cause ==
> Diameter_bad_answer
>
> The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same implementation, which
> apparently requires this kind of configuration to work.
>
> In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly stated how to deal with
> cases where a successful authorization answer is coming from a server
> located in a different realm than the home realm of the user (as per NAI).
>
> However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the
> client IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may looks
> to the client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don’t remember
> any discussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol development
> time…..
>
> Any opinion on this scenario?
>
> BR,
>
> Marco
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The information in this email and any attachments thereto may contain
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From: Marco Stura <mstura@ooredoo.com>
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From nobody Thu May  8 23:32:01 2014
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From: Marco Stura <mstura@ooredoo.com>
To: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 06:31:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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Thank you Jouni and all folks that replied.

I wanted to hear opinions without giving mine first. I agree that we cannot=
 find any explicit specification language, but I think this kind of configu=
rations are not really standard and are against the spirit of AAA.

If we think what AAA was invented for, it is all about communicating with t=
he home server that is authoritative to authenticate/authorize the user. Th=
e home server shall match the user's home realm.  If we look at the definit=
ion of realm in RFC 6733:

Realm

      The string in the NAI that immediately follows the '@' character.
      NAI realm names are required to be unique and are piggybacked on
      the administration of the DNS namespace.  Diameter makes use of
      the realm, also loosely referred to as domain, to determine
      whether messages can be satisfied locally or whether they must be
      routed or redirected.  In RADIUS, realm names are not necessarily
      piggybacked on the DNS namespace but may be independent of it.

Then further on in the RFC it is said that the ream may be derived from the=
 NAI and then populated in the Destination-Realm. Alternatively one could u=
se other mechanisms in the client to determine what realm is authoritative =
for the user, but whatever mechanism must not be dictated by the implementa=
tion of the server or servers composition, it must be a standard mechanism.=
 Otherwise it will never be possible to implement things like roaming. One =
example is the NAI, another example is the IMSI derived home realm as defin=
ed in 3gpp TS 23.003.

By definition there is only one realm that is authoritative, not many diffe=
rent realms (or domains). In my example the realm that is authoritative for=
 the user is "sprealm", as the user belong to that. Therefore a configurati=
on with servers belonging each to a different realm (none of the realm is a=
ctually matching the home realm) it's not what I would call a Diameter comp=
liant implementation, as none of the servers can actually be said to serve =
the user's home realm. Furthermore, again in the spirit of AAA, the Destina=
tion-Realm AVP shall not be changed by agents as per diameter request routi=
ng processing defined in section 6.1.

IMHO a Diameter compliant implementation would exactly look as the one desc=
ribed by David, which I report below:

If all of the servers were in the same realm (say realmX), a conversation w=
ould work like this:
- client sends message to Dest-Realm=3DrealmX, (Dest-Host unspecified)
- client realm-routing indicates the proxy can handle it and forwards to pr=
oxy.
- based on lack of Dest-Host, proxy realm-routing table determines any of S=
ervers 1-3 (all of realmX) can handle it.
- the proxy selects a host in realmX (e.g., Server1) by any appropriate alg=
orithm
- e.g., Server1 answers the message with Origin-Host=3DServer1 and Origin-R=
ealm=3DrealmX
- proxy transparently passes the Origin-Host=3DServer1 and Origin-Realm=3Dr=
ealmX
- if client needs to continue the session, the client makes subsequent requ=
ests to Dest-Host=3DServer1 and Dest-Realm=3DrealmX

What I described in my original email it's actually an horrible hack of Dia=
meter :-) Do you agree?

BR,
Marco

-----Original Message-----
From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jouni Korhonen
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 10:08 PM
To: dime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages


Your load balancer is misbehaving. Unfortunately you don't find any exact s=
pecification language to prohibit the proxy vendor doing this.

- Jouni



5/8/2014 8:44 AM, Marco Stura kirjoitti:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm facing the following situation.
>
> |----------------------------
> SPrealm--------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> _----------- Server 1(realm a)
>
>
>                                   _
>
>
> _
>
> Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) ---------------- Server
> 2(realm b)
>
>
> _
>
>
>                                                        _
>
>
> _
>
>
> ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)
>
> The implementation is such that the Proxy is load balancing by
> selecting the internal Server where the subscriber data are
> provisioned, based on user identity.
>
> The Client is sending an application specific authorization request to
> the Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm =3D=3D SPrealm.
>
> The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPrealm and send the
> request there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.
>
> Server 2 processes the request generates an answer and send it to the
> Proxy with Origin-Host =3D=3D server2@realm b, Origin-Realm =3D=3D realm =
b.
>
> The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that receives a successful
> authorization answer from a realm that is different from the one
> supposed to serve the user (as in the NAI).
>
> The client terminates the session with STR to Destination-Host =3D=3D
> server2@realm b, Destination-Realm =3D=3D realm b, Termination-Cause =3D=
=3D
> Diameter_bad_answer
>
> The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same implementation, which
> apparently requires this kind of configuration to work.
>
> In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly stated how to deal with
> cases where a successful authorization answer is coming from a server
> located in a different realm than the home realm of the user (as per NAI)=
.
>
> However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the
> client IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may
> looks to the client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don't
> remember any discussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol
> development time.....
>
> Any opinion on this scenario?
>
> BR,
>
> Marco
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
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Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 10:29:43 +0300
From: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
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Hi

5/9/2014 9:31 AM, Marco Stura kirjoitti:
> Thank you Jouni and all folks that replied.
>
> I wanted to hear opinions without giving mine first. I agree that we cannot find any explicit specification language, but I think this kind of configurations are not really standard and are against the spirit of AAA.

There is one thing that kind of assumes that the realm is not to be 
changed. The duplicate detection is based on e-2-e identifier and the 
origin-host. So that thing may get confused if the answer messages are 
from a different realm than the request was sent to.

> If we think what AAA was invented for, it is all about communicating with the home server that is authoritative to authenticate/authorize the user. The home server shall match the user's home realm.  If we look at the definition of realm in RFC 6733:
>
> Realm
>
>        The string in the NAI that immediately follows the '@' character.
>        NAI realm names are required to be unique and are piggybacked on
>        the administration of the DNS namespace.  Diameter makes use of
>        the realm, also loosely referred to as domain, to determine
>        whether messages can be satisfied locally or whether they must be
>        routed or redirected.  In RADIUS, realm names are not necessarily
>        piggybacked on the DNS namespace but may be independent of it.
>
> Then further on in the RFC it is said that the ream may be derived from the NAI and then populated in the Destination-Realm. Alternatively one could use other mechanisms in the client to determine what realm is authoritative for the user, but whatever mechanism must not be dictated by the implementation of the server or servers composition, it must be a standard mechanism. Otherwise it will never be possible to implement things like roaming. One example is the NAI, another example is the IMSI derived home realm as defined in 3gpp TS 23.003.
>
> By definition there is only one realm that is authoritative, not many different realms (or domains). In my example the realm that is authoritative for the user is "sprealm", as the user belong to that. Therefore a configuration with servers belonging each to a different realm (none of the realm is actually matching the home realm) it's not what I would call a Diameter compliant implementation, as none of the servers can actually be said to serve the user's home realm. Furthermore, again in the spirit of AAA, the Destination-Realm AVP shall not be changed by agents as per diameter request routing processing defined in section 6.1.
>
> IMHO a Diameter compliant implementation would exactly look as the one described by David, which I report below:
>
> If all of the servers were in the same realm (say realmX), a conversation would work like this:
> - client sends message to Dest-Realm=realmX, (Dest-Host unspecified)
> - client realm-routing indicates the proxy can handle it and forwards to proxy.
> - based on lack of Dest-Host, proxy realm-routing table determines any of Servers 1-3 (all of realmX) can handle it.
> - the proxy selects a host in realmX (e.g., Server1) by any appropriate algorithm
> - e.g., Server1 answers the message with Origin-Host=Server1 and Origin-Realm=realmX
> - proxy transparently passes the Origin-Host=Server1 and Origin-Realm=realmX
> - if client needs to continue the session, the client makes subsequent requests to Dest-Host=Server1 and Dest-Realm=realmX
>
> What I described in my original email it's actually an horrible hack of Diameter :-) Do you agree?

Yes.

>
> BR,
> Marco
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jouni Korhonen
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 10:08 PM
> To: dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] Question on realm validity in answer messages
>
>
> Your load balancer is misbehaving. Unfortunately you don't find any exact specification language to prohibit the proxy vendor doing this.
>
> - Jouni
>
>
>
> 5/8/2014 8:44 AM, Marco Stura kirjoitti:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I'm facing the following situation.
>>
>> |----------------------------
>> SPrealm--------------------------------------------------|
>>
>>
>> _----------- Server 1(realm a)
>>
>>
>>                                    _
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>> Client ------------------ Proxy(SPrealm) ---------------- Server
>> 2(realm b)
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>>
>>                                                         _
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>>
>> ---------- Sever 3 (realm c)
>>
>> The implementation is such that the Proxy is load balancing by
>> selecting the internal Server where the subscriber data are
>> provisioned, based on user identity.
>>
>> The Client is sending an application specific authorization request to
>> the Proxy for NAI user@SPrealm, Destination-Realm == SPrealm.
>>
>> The Proxy selects e.g. Server 2 based on user@SPrealm and send the
>> request there changing the Destination-Realm to realm b.
>>
>> Server 2 processes the request generates an answer and send it to the
>> Proxy with Origin-Host == server2@realm b, Origin-Realm == realm b.
>>
>> The Proxy forward the answer to the Client, that receives a successful
>> authorization answer from a realm that is different from the one
>> supposed to serve the user (as in the NAI).
>>
>> The client terminates the session with STR to Destination-Host ==
>> server2@realm b, Destination-Realm == realm b, Termination-Cause ==
>> Diameter_bad_answer
>>
>> The Proxy and the Servers are part of the same implementation, which
>> apparently requires this kind of configuration to work.
>>
>> In RFC 6733 (or RFC 3388) it is not explicitly stated how to deal with
>> cases where a successful authorization answer is coming from a server
>> located in a different realm than the home realm of the user (as per NAI).
>>
>> However, to say the least, this configuration is quite bizarre and the
>> client IMHO is right to terminate the session as this behavior may
>> looks to the client like an answer from a malicious node. But I don't
>> remember any discussion on this aspects back at the Diameter protocol
>> development time.....
>>
>> Any opinion on this scenario?
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Marco
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>> The information in this email and any attachments thereto may contain
>> information that is confidential, protected by intellectual property
>> rights, and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the
>> addressee(s). Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. Any
>> use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of the information contained
>> herein by persons other than the designated addressee is unauthorized
>> and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, you should
>> delete the message immediately from your system. If you believe that
>> you have received this email in error, please contact the sender. Any
>> views expressed in this email and its attachments are those of the
>> individual sender except where the sender expressly states them to be
>> the views of Ooredoo.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DiME mailing list
>> DiME@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>
> ________________________________
>
> The information in this email and any attachments thereto may contain information that is confidential, protected by intellectual property rights, and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of the information contained herein by persons other than the designated addressee is unauthorized and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete the message immediately from your system. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender. Any views expressed in this email and its attachments are those of the individual sender except where the sender expressly states them to be the views of Ooredoo.
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From nobody Mon May 12 03:07:47 2014
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Subject: [Dime] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide-23.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Diameter Maintenance and Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Diameter Applications Design Guidelines
        Authors         : Lionel Morand
                          Victor Fajardo
                          Hannes Tschofenig
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide-23.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2014-05-12

Abstract:
   The Diameter base protocol provides facilities for protocol
   extensibility enabling to define new Diameter applications or modify
   existing applications.  This document is a companion document to the
   Diameter Base protocol that further explains and clarifies the rules
   to extend Diameter.  Futhermore, this document provides guidelines to
   Diameter application designers reusing/defining Diameter applications
   or creating generic Diameter extensions.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide-23

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide-23


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Hi Lionel,

Thanks for the new version 23.

One question regarding the attached picture.


What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.
RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why 
it's used here.

Regards, Benoit.

> Hi Lionel,
>
> Thanks for the new version.
> See in line
>>
>>
>>
>> - When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.
>>
>> BCP definition from RFC 2026:
>>
>>     5.  BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs
>>
>>       
>>
>>         The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a way to
>>
>>         standardize practices and the results of community deliberations.
>>
>> Interestingly, the charter mentions:
>>
>> May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the IESG 
>> for consideration as a BCP document
>>
>> */[LM] discussed in another email thread./*
>>
>>
>> If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the writeup.
>>
> Abstract:
>
>     It is meant as a guidelines document and
>     therefore as informative in nature.
>
> I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very well.
>
> Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> *//**//**//*
>>
>>
>> - Editorial in section 5.7
>> OLD:
>>
>> Destination- Realm
>>   
>> NEW:
>> Destination-Realm
>> */
>> /*
> Still there.
>>
>>
>> *//**//*
>>
>>
>>
>> - Section 5.9
>>
>>   Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard
>>     them upon receipt.
>>
>> Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like this one above, 
>> we should mention RFC 6733 as the reference.
>> This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.
>>
>> */[LM] ok/*
>>
> Still there.
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> *//*
>
> Regards, Benoit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DiME mailing list
> DiME@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Lionel,<br>
      <br>
      Thanks for the new version 23.<br>
      <br>
      One question regarding the attached picture.<br>
      <img src="cid:part1.02060208.03050804@cisco.com" alt=""><br>
      <br>
      What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.<br>
      RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see
      why it's used here.<br>
      <br>
      Regards, Benoit.<br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:53514D73.3090006@cisco.com" type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Lionel,<br>
        <br>
        Thanks for the new version.<br>
        See in line <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
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            <br>
            - When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">BCP definition from RFC 2026:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <pre>5.&nbsp; BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
                  <pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a way to<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; standardize practices and the results of community deliberations. <o:p></o:p></pre>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Interestingly, the charter
                  mentions:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">May 2012, Submit 'Diameter
                    Application Design Guidelines' to the IESG for
                    consideration as a BCP document<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                          lang="EN-US">[LM] discussed in another email
                          thread.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                    If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the
                    abstract, and the writeup.<br>
                  </span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Abstract:<br>
      &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
      <pre>   It is meant as a guidelines document and
   therefore as informative in nature.

I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very well.

Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.
</pre>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:22885_1396976646_53442C06_22885_3037_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E54D5C4@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  - Editorial in section 5.7<br>
                  OLD:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <pre>Destination- Realm<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
                <pre>NEW:<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Destination-Realm<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">
</span></i></b></pre>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Still there.<br>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:22885_1396976646_53442C06_22885_3037_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E54D5C4@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
        type="cite">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  <b><i><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"></span></i></b><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                    <br>
                  </span>- Section 5.9<o:p></o:p></p>
                <pre> Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; them upon receipt. <o:p></o:p></pre>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Generic comment: Each time there is
                  a sentence like this one above, we should mention RFC
                  6733 as the reference.<br>
                  This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC
                  6733.<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[LM]

                        ok</span></i></b></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      Still there.
      <blockquote
cite="mid:22885_1396976646_53442C06_22885_3037_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E54D5C4@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup"
        type="cite">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
                <b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      Regards, Benoit<br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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From: <lionel.morand@orange.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 06:27:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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Hi Benoit,

The "MUST" is maybe not required.
But this will cause interoperability issues if you just say "re-use AVP 1" =
without saying exactly how to set the M-bit. Some may decide to set the M-b=
it as initially defined, others may decide to change it.
So the idea was to provide an absolute recommendation for designers and the=
n a MUST/REQUIRED/SHALL for all the AVP flags:
- The M-bit flag MUST be re-evaluated
- Other AVP flags MUST remain unchanged.

If not valid, no problem to revert the change.

Regards,

Lionel


De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
Envoy=E9 : mardi 13 mai 2014 00:16
=C0 : MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN; draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.iet=
f.org
Cc : dime mailing list
Objet : Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide

Hi Lionel,

Thanks for the new version 23.

One question regarding the attached picture.
[cid:image001.png@01CF6E82.6C602D80]

What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.
RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why it's=
 used here.

Regards, Benoit.
Hi Lionel,

Thanks for the new version.
See in line


- When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.
BCP definition from RFC 2026:

5.  BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs



   The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a way to

   standardize practices and the results of community deliberations.
Interestingly, the charter mentions:
May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the IESG for c=
onsideration as a BCP document
[LM] discussed in another email thread.

If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the writeup.
Abstract:


   It is meant as a guidelines document and

   therefore as informative in nature.



I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very well.



Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.


- Editorial in section 5.7
OLD:

Destination- Realm



NEW:

Destination-Realm


Still there.





- Section 5.9

 Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard

   them upon receipt.
Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like this one above, we shou=
ld mention RFC 6733 as the reference.
This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.
[LM] ok
Still there.


Regards, Benoit




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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Benoit,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The &quot;=
MUST&quot; is maybe not required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But this w=
ill cause interoperability issues if you just say &quot;re-use AVP 1&quot; =
without saying exactly how to set the M-bit. Some may decide to set
 the M-bit as initially defined, others may decide to change it.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">So the ide=
a was to provide an absolute recommendation for designers and then a MUST/R=
EQUIRED/SHALL for all the AVP flags:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">- The M-bi=
t flag MUST be re-evaluated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">- Other AV=
P flags MUST remain unchanged.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If not val=
id, no problem to revert the change.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Lionel<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">De&nbsp;:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> mardi 13 mai 2014 00:16<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN; draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.a=
ll@tools.ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> dime mailing list<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Lionel,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the new version 23.<br>
<br>
One question regarding the attached picture.<br>
<img width=3D"1042" height=3D"180" id=3D"_x0000_i1025" src=3D"cid:image001.=
png@01CF6E82.6C602D80"><br>
<br>
What does it mean &quot;MUST be re-evaluated&quot; with a RFC 2119 keyword.=
<br>
RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why it's=
 used here.<br>
<br>
Regards, Benoit.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Lionel,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the new version.<br>
See in line <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
- When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BCP definition from RFC 2026:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>5.&nbsp; BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a w=
ay to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; standardize practices and the results of community delibe=
rations. <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interestingly, the charter mentions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidel=
ines' to the IESG for consideration as a BCP document<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[LM]=
 discussed in another email thread.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the writeup.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Abstract:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It is meant as a guidelines document and<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; therefore as informative in nature.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very =
well.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
- Editorial in section 5.7<br>
OLD:<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Destination- Realm<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NEW:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Destination-Realm<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Still there.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
</span>- Section 5.9<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; them upon receipt. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like =
this one above, we should mention RFC 6733 as the reference.<br>
This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[LM] ok</span></i><=
/b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Still there. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Regards, Benoit<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>DiME mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:DiME@ietf.org">DiME@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/dime</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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</PRE></body>
</html>

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--_004_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E59FE4DPEXCVZYM13corpora_--


From nobody Tue May 13 07:30:21 2014
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Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 17:30:04 +0300
From: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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To: lionel.morand@orange.com, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>,  "draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide@tools.ietf.org>
References: <52D9030B.3010402@cisco.com> <533BD276.7000401@cisco.com> <22885_1396976646_53442C06_22885_3037_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E54D5C4@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53514D73.3090006@cisco.com> <53714817.8020100@cisco.com> <7656_1399962480_5371BB70_7656_3268_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E59FE4D@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Cc: dime mailing list <dime@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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I think the change Lionel made is a good one. Diameter allows us, even 
if not too much recommended, to change M-bits for existing AVP per 
application. Emphasizing the "sanity check" is a good practise imho.

- Jouni

5/13/2014 9:27 AM, lionel.morand@orange.com kirjoitti:
> Hi Benoit,
>
> The "MUST" is maybe not required.
>
> But this will cause interoperability issues if you just say "re-use AVP
> 1" without saying exactly how to set the M-bit. Some may decide to set
> the M-bit as initially defined, others may decide to change it.
>
> So the idea was to provide an absolute recommendation for designers and
> then a MUST/REQUIRED/SHALL for all the AVP flags:
>
> - The M-bit flag MUST be re-evaluated
>
> - Other AVP flags MUST remain unchanged.
>
> If not valid, no problem to revert the change.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lionel
>
> *De :*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
> *Envoyé :* mardi 13 mai 2014 00:16
> *À :* MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN;
> draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc :* dime mailing list
> *Objet :* Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
>
> Hi Lionel,
>
> Thanks for the new version 23.
>
> One question regarding the attached picture.
>
>
> What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.
> RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why
> it's used here.
>
> Regards, Benoit.
>
>     Hi Lionel,
>
>     Thanks for the new version.
>     See in line
>
>
>
>         - When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.
>
>         BCP definition from RFC 2026:
>
>             5.  BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs
>
>
>
>                 The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a way to
>
>                 standardize practices and the results of community deliberations.
>
>         Interestingly, the charter mentions:
>
>         May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the
>         IESG for consideration as a BCP document
>
>         */[LM] discussed in another email thread./*
>
>
>         If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the
>         writeup.
>
>     Abstract:
>
>         It is meant as a guidelines document and
>
>         therefore as informative in nature.
>
>
>
>     I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very well.
>
>
>
>     Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.
>
>
>         - Editorial in section 5.7
>         OLD:
>
>         Destination- Realm
>
>
>
>         NEW:
>
>         Destination-Realm
>
>         */  /*
>
>     Still there.
>
>
>
>
>
>     - Section 5.9
>
>       Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard
>
>         them upon receipt.
>
>     Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like this one above,
>     we should mention RFC 6733 as the reference.
>     This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.
>
>     */[LM] ok/*
>
>     Still there.
>
>
>     Regards, Benoit
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     DiME mailing list
>
>     DiME@ietf.org  <mailto:DiME@ietf.org>
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>, ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hi,

attached is an updated proposed text hopefully reflecting comments from Mar=
ia Cruz and Ben.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:21 AM
To: 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ben,

please see inline

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:05 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to respond =
point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for any=
 DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear to me=
 how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.)
<Ulrich>The 3GPP requirement from 29.809 clause 6.4.7 is "overload mitigati=
on differentiation per client", it is not "overload mitigation differentiat=
ion per reacting node". In configurations like this:

+----+       +----+      +---+
| C1 |-------| A1 |------|   |
+----+ \   / +----+      |   |
        \ /              |   |
         X               | S | =20
        / \              |   |
+----+ /   \ +----+      |   |     =20
| C2 |-------| A2 |------|   |
+----+       +----+      +---+
=20
S may want to request a reduction of C1-to-S traffic (no matter whether rou=
ted via A1 or A2), while C2-to-S traffic (no matter whether routed via A1 o=
r A2) is not throttled.

There is no requirement to let S request a reduction of A1-to-S traffic (no=
 matter whether originated by C1 or C2), while A2-to-S traffic (no matter w=
hether originated by C1 or C2) is not throttled. What would be the rational=
 for such a requirement?</Ulrich>

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the origin-hos=
t AVP en route.=20
<Ulrich> This issue #66. Issue #66 seems to address answer messages only. I=
s your concern with request messages?</Ulrich>

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or no=
t,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node somewhere i=
n the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the associated request.=
 Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original request requires extra s=
tate and extra steps.
<Ulrich>I agree. However, your concern is only relevant for agent-support o=
f client specific throttling. If we agree to address only client-support of=
 client specific throttling in the draft (see my response to MCruz), this i=
ssue disappears.  Anyway, my suggested text for clause 4.6  needs to be rev=
ised as answer messages do not contain Destination-Host/Destination-Realm.<=
/Ulrich>


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? I=
 do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office files ve=
ry well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe=
@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity =
of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our in=
itial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate t=
o delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought throug=
h all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specifi=
c" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different=
 normative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably option=
al) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node=
. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wieh=
e@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rath=
er than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are=
 clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the=
 reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donova=
n
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overl=
oad reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on exte=
nsion.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overloa=
d report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a repo=
rting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction per=
centages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of th=
e spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


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Content-Type: application/rtf;
	name="draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling rev1.rtf"
Content-Description: draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling
 rev1.rtf
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling rev1.rtf";
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	modification-date="Thu, 08 May 2014 07:10:20 GMT"
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From nobody Wed May 14 03:42:42 2014
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>, ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Sorry, I attached wrong files.
Here are correct files.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:21 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: 'dime@ietf.org list'
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi,

attached is an updated proposed text hopefully reflecting comments from Mar=
ia Cruz and Ben.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:21 AM
To: 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ben,

please see inline

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:05 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to respond =
point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for any=
 DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear to me=
 how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.)
<Ulrich>The 3GPP requirement from 29.809 clause 6.4.7 is "overload mitigati=
on differentiation per client", it is not "overload mitigation differentiat=
ion per reacting node". In configurations like this:

+----+       +----+      +---+
| C1 |-------| A1 |------|   |
+----+ \   / +----+      |   |
        \ /              |   |
         X               | S | =20
        / \              |   |
+----+ /   \ +----+      |   |     =20
| C2 |-------| A2 |------|   |
+----+       +----+      +---+
=20
S may want to request a reduction of C1-to-S traffic (no matter whether rou=
ted via A1 or A2), while C2-to-S traffic (no matter whether routed via A1 o=
r A2) is not throttled.

There is no requirement to let S request a reduction of A1-to-S traffic (no=
 matter whether originated by C1 or C2), while A2-to-S traffic (no matter w=
hether originated by C1 or C2) is not throttled. What would be the rational=
 for such a requirement?</Ulrich>

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the origin-hos=
t AVP en route.=20
<Ulrich> This issue #66. Issue #66 seems to address answer messages only. I=
s your concern with request messages?</Ulrich>

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or no=
t,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node somewhere i=
n the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the associated request.=
 Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original request requires extra s=
tate and extra steps.
<Ulrich>I agree. However, your concern is only relevant for agent-support o=
f client specific throttling. If we agree to address only client-support of=
 client specific throttling in the draft (see my response to MCruz), this i=
ssue disappears.  Anyway, my suggested text for clause 4.6  needs to be rev=
ised as answer messages do not contain Destination-Host/Destination-Realm.<=
/Ulrich>


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? I=
 do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office files ve=
ry well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe=
@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity =
of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]=20
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our in=
itial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate t=
o delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought throug=
h all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specifi=
c" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different=
 normative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably option=
al) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node=
. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wieh=
e@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rath=
er than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are=
 clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the=
 reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve Donova=
n
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overl=
oad reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on exte=
nsion.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overloa=
d report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a repo=
rting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction per=
centages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of th=
e spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


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Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling rev2.txt"
Content-Description: draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling
 rev2.txt
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling rev2.txt";
	size=7838; creation-date="Thu, 08 May 2014 07:20:39 GMT";
	modification-date="Wed, 14 May 2014 10:12:27 GMT"
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--_003_5BCBA1FC2B7F0B4C9D935572D9000668151EADE7DEMUMBX014nsnin_--


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From: <lionel.morand@orange.com>
To: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 15:37:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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Hi Benoit,

Would you be happy with the following rewording?

OLD:

4.4.1. Setting of the AVP Flags

   When reusing AVPs in a new application, the M-bit flag setting MUST
   be re-evaluated for a new Diameter application and, if necessary,
   even for every command within the application.  In general, for AVPs
   defined outside of the Diameter base protocol, the characteristics of
   an AVP are tied to its role within a given application and the
   commands used in this application.

   All other AVP flags (V-bit, P-bit, reserved bits) MUST remain
   unchanged.

NEW:

4.4.1. Setting of the AVP Flags

   When reusing existing AVPs in a new application, application designers=
=20
   MUST specify the setting of the M-bit flag for a new Diameter application
   and, if necessary, even for every command within the application.
   In general, for AVPs defined outside of the Diameter base protocol, the=
=20
   characteristics of an AVP are tied to its role within a given application
   and the commands used in this application.

   All other AVP flags (V-bit, P-bit, reserved bits) MUST remain
   unchanged.

-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: Jouni Korhonen [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]=20
Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 13 mai 2014 16:30
=C0=A0: MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN; Benoit Claise; draft-ietf-dime-app-design-gu=
ide.all@tools.ietf.org
Cc=A0: dime mailing list
Objet=A0: Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide


I think the change Lionel made is a good one. Diameter allows us, even=20
if not too much recommended, to change M-bits for existing AVP per=20
application. Emphasizing the "sanity check" is a good practise imho.

- Jouni

5/13/2014 9:27 AM, lionel.morand@orange.com kirjoitti:
> Hi Benoit,
>
> The "MUST" is maybe not required.
>
> But this will cause interoperability issues if you just say "re-use AVP
> 1" without saying exactly how to set the M-bit. Some may decide to set
> the M-bit as initially defined, others may decide to change it.
>
> So the idea was to provide an absolute recommendation for designers and
> then a MUST/REQUIRED/SHALL for all the AVP flags:
>
> - The M-bit flag MUST be re-evaluated
>
> - Other AVP flags MUST remain unchanged.
>
> If not valid, no problem to revert the change.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lionel
>
> *De :*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
> *Envoy=E9 :* mardi 13 mai 2014 00:16
> *=C0 :* MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN;
> draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org
> *Cc :* dime mailing list
> *Objet :* Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
>
> Hi Lionel,
>
> Thanks for the new version 23.
>
> One question regarding the attached picture.
>
>
> What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.
> RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why
> it's used here.
>
> Regards, Benoit.
>
>     Hi Lionel,
>
>     Thanks for the new version.
>     See in line
>
>
>
>         - When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.
>
>         BCP definition from RFC 2026:
>
>             5.  BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs
>
>
>
>                 The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a w=
ay to
>
>                 standardize practices and the results of community delibe=
rations.
>
>         Interestingly, the charter mentions:
>
>         May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the
>         IESG for consideration as a BCP document
>
>         */[LM] discussed in another email thread./*
>
>
>         If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the
>         writeup.
>
>     Abstract:
>
>         It is meant as a guidelines document and
>
>         therefore as informative in nature.
>
>
>
>     I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very=
 well.
>
>
>
>     Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.
>
>
>         - Editorial in section 5.7
>         OLD:
>
>         Destination- Realm
>
>
>
>         NEW:
>
>         Destination-Realm
>
>         */  /*
>
>     Still there.
>
>
>
>
>
>     - Section 5.9
>
>       Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard
>
>         them upon receipt.
>
>     Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like this one above,
>     we should mention RFC 6733 as the reference.
>     This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.
>
>     */[LM] ok/*
>
>     Still there.
>
>
>     Regards, Benoit
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     DiME mailing list
>
>     DiME@ietf.org  <mailto:DiME@ietf.org>
>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>

___________________________________________________________________________=
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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 18:39:36 +0200
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To: lionel.morand@orange.com, Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide@tools.ietf.org>
References: <52D9030B.3010402@cisco.com> <533BD276.7000401@cisco.com> <22885_1396976646_53442C06_22885_3037_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E54D5C4@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53514D73.3090006@cisco.com> <53714817.8020100@cisco.com> <7656_1399962480_5371BB70_7656_3268_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E59FE4D@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53722C6C.4000405@gmail.com> <21032_1400081845_53738DB5_21032_16360_1_6B7134B31289DC4FAF731D844122B36E5A4181@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Cc: dime mailing list <dime@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
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Hi Lionel,

If this works for the WG, that would work for me.
I was uneasy with the verb in "When reusing AVPs in a new application, 
the M-bit flag setting MUST be re-evaluated for a new Diameter 
application", along with the MUST.

Possible answer: "I MUST re-evaluate the M-bit. Yeah, I did evaluate it, 
and I don't care, but I'm compliant". :-)

Regards, Benoit

> Hi Benoit,
>
> Would you be happy with the following rewording?
>
> OLD:
>
> 4.4.1. Setting of the AVP Flags
>
>     When reusing AVPs in a new application, the M-bit flag setting MUST
>     be re-evaluated for a new Diameter application and, if necessary,
>     even for every command within the application.  In general, for AVPs
>     defined outside of the Diameter base protocol, the characteristics of
>     an AVP are tied to its role within a given application and the
>     commands used in this application.
>
>     All other AVP flags (V-bit, P-bit, reserved bits) MUST remain
>     unchanged.
>
> NEW:
>
> 4.4.1. Setting of the AVP Flags
>
>     When reusing existing AVPs in a new application, application designers
>     MUST specify the setting of the M-bit flag for a new Diameter application
>     and, if necessary, even for every command within the application.
>     In general, for AVPs defined outside of the Diameter base protocol, the
>     characteristics of an AVP are tied to its role within a given application
>     and the commands used in this application.
>
>     All other AVP flags (V-bit, P-bit, reserved bits) MUST remain
>     unchanged.
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Jouni Korhonen [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
> Envoyé : mardi 13 mai 2014 16:30
> À : MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN; Benoit Claise; draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org
> Cc : dime mailing list
> Objet : Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
>
>
> I think the change Lionel made is a good one. Diameter allows us, even
> if not too much recommended, to change M-bits for existing AVP per
> application. Emphasizing the "sanity check" is a good practise imho.
>
> - Jouni
>
> 5/13/2014 9:27 AM, lionel.morand@orange.com kirjoitti:
>> Hi Benoit,
>>
>> The "MUST" is maybe not required.
>>
>> But this will cause interoperability issues if you just say "re-use AVP
>> 1" without saying exactly how to set the M-bit. Some may decide to set
>> the M-bit as initially defined, others may decide to change it.
>>
>> So the idea was to provide an absolute recommendation for designers and
>> then a MUST/REQUIRED/SHALL for all the AVP flags:
>>
>> - The M-bit flag MUST be re-evaluated
>>
>> - Other AVP flags MUST remain unchanged.
>>
>> If not valid, no problem to revert the change.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Lionel
>>
>> *De :*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
>> *Envoyé :* mardi 13 mai 2014 00:16
>> *À :* MORAND Lionel IMT/OLN;
>> draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide.all@tools.ietf.org
>> *Cc :* dime mailing list
>> *Objet :* Re: [Dime] AD review draft-ietf-dime-app-design-guide
>>
>> Hi Lionel,
>>
>> Thanks for the new version 23.
>>
>> One question regarding the attached picture.
>>
>>
>> What does it mean "MUST be re-evaluated" with a RFC 2119 keyword.
>> RFC 2119 keywords are useful for interoperability, and I don't see why
>> it's used here.
>>
>> Regards, Benoit.
>>
>>      Hi Lionel,
>>
>>      Thanks for the new version.
>>      See in line
>>
>>
>>
>>          - When I read the document, it looked to me as a BCP.
>>
>>          BCP definition from RFC 2026:
>>
>>              5.  BEST CURRENT PRACTICE (BCP) RFCs
>>
>>
>>
>>                  The BCP subseries of the RFC series is designed to be a way to
>>
>>                  standardize practices and the results of community deliberations.
>>
>>          Interestingly, the charter mentions:
>>
>>          May 2012, Submit 'Diameter Application Design Guidelines' to the
>>          IESG for consideration as a BCP document
>>
>>          */[LM] discussed in another email thread./*
>>
>>
>>          If you go to BCP, don't forget to update the abstract, and the
>>          writeup.
>>
>>      Abstract:
>>
>>          It is meant as a guidelines document and
>>
>>          therefore as informative in nature.
>>
>>
>>
>>      I would remove this sentence. Informative and BCP don't go along very well.
>>
>>
>>
>>      Jouni, don't forget to update the writeup.
>>
>>
>>          - Editorial in section 5.7
>>          OLD:
>>
>>          Destination- Realm
>>
>>
>>
>>          NEW:
>>
>>          Destination-Realm
>>
>>          */  /*
>>
>>      Still there.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      - Section 5.9
>>
>>        Applications that do not understand these AVPs can discard
>>
>>          them upon receipt.
>>
>>      Generic comment: Each time there is a sentence like this one above,
>>      we should mention RFC 6733 as the reference.
>>      This document is not an extension/deviation to RFC 6733.
>>
>>      */[LM] ok/*
>>
>>      Still there.
>>
>>
>>      Regards, Benoit
>>
>>
>>
>>      _______________________________________________
>>
>>      DiME mailing list
>>
>>      DiME@ietf.org  <mailto:DiME@ietf.org>
>>
>>      https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>>
>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DiME mailing list
>> DiME@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
> .
>


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Subject: [Dime] Fwd: NomCom 2014-2015 Call for Volunteers
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FYI


-------- Alkuperäinen viesti / Orig.Msg. --------
Aihe: NomCom 2014-2015 Call for Volunteers
Päiväys: Fri, 16 May 2014 10:20:56 -0400
Lähettäjä: Michael Richardson <nomcom-chair-2014@ietf.org>
Vastausosoite: mcr+nomcom@sandelman.ca
Vastaanottaja: ietf@ietf.org


The IETF nominating committee (nomcom) process for 2014-15 has begun. The
IETF nomcom appoints folks to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB,
and the IESG (including IETF Chair).

Ten voting members for the nomcom are selected in a verifiably random
way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we 
have of
choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population.

Let's break the 200 volunteer mark again this year!

The details of the operation of the nomcom can be found in RFC 3777,
and BCP10/RFC3797 details the selection algorithm.

Volunteers must have attended 3 of the past 5 IETF meetings.  As 
specified in
RFC 3777, that means three out of the five past meetings up to the time this
email announcement goes out to start the solicitation of volunteers.
The five meetings out of which you must have attended *three*
are IETF 85(Atlanta),      \
          86(Orlando),       \
          87(Berlin),         *** ANY THREE!
          88(Vancouver),     /
          89(London)        /

If you qualify, please volunteer.   However, much as we want this, 
before you
decide to volunteer, please be sure you are willing to forgo appointment
to any of the positions for which this nomcom is responsible.

The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2015 IETF
meeting, and thus the positions for which this nomcom is responsible, are

IAOC:
To be confirmed

IAB:
Joel Halpern
Russ Housley
Eliot Lear
Xing Li
Andrew Sullivan
Dave Thaler

IESG:
Pete Resnick (Applications)
Ted Lemon (Internet)
Joel Jaeggli (Operations and Management)
Richard Barnes (RAI)
Adrian Farrel* (Routing)
Stephen Farrell (Security)
Spencer Dawkins (Transport)
Jari Arkko (Gen)

(names with * have publically indicated they will not serve another term)

The primary activity for this nomcom will begin in July 2014 and should be
completed in January 2015.   The nomcom will have regularly scheduled
conference calls to ensure progress. (We might dogfood WebRTC)
There will be activities to collect requirements from the community, review
candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about
candidates, and talk to candidates.

Thus, being a nomcom member does require some time commitment; but it is 
also
a very rewarding experience.

It is very important that you be able to attend IETF91 to conduct 
interviews.
Being at IETF90 is useful for training.  Being at IETF92 is not essential.

Please volunteer by sending me an email before 11:59 pm EDT (UTC -4 hours)
June 22, 2013, as follows:

To: nomcom-chair-2014@ietf.org
Subject: Nomcom 2014-15 Volunteer

Please include the following information in the email body:

  <Your Full Name>
     // First/Given Name followed by Last/Family Name
     // matching how you enter it in the IETF Registration Form)

  <Current Primary Affiliation>
     // Typically what goes in the Company field
     // in the IETF Registration Form
[<All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings>]
  <Preferred email address>
  <Telephone number>
     // For confirmation if selected

You should expect an email response from me within 3 business days stating
whether or not you are qualified.  If you don't receive this response,
please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line.

If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider
that nomcom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership
of the IETF.  Questions by email or voice are welcome.
Volunteering for the nomcom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!

You can find a detailed timeline on the nomcom web site at:
     https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2014/

I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details
of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process,
within the next couple weeks.

Thank you!
Michael Richardson
mcr+nomcom@sandelman.ca
nomcom-chair-2014@ietf.org




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LS0tLS0NCg==
--------------020204090800050103080405--


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From: Maria Cruz Bartolome <maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com>
To: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>, ext Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hello Ulrich,

In the following description in your text:

   OLR_CLIENT_SPECIFIC_THROTTLING (0x0000000000000002)

      When this flag is set by the reacting overload control endpoint it
      means that client specific throttling is supported. When this flag
      is set by the reporting overload control endpoint it means that
      client specific throttling is requested. When the reacting overload
      control endpoint did not indicate support of client specific throttli=
ng,
      the reporting overload control endpoint shall not request client
      specific throttling.
      Note: Reacting nodes which are clients trivially do support client
      specific throttling. Similarly, reacting nodes which are agents that
      perform throttling on behalf of a single client do support client=20
      specific throttling. In contrast, reacting nodes which are agents
      that perform throttling on behalf of several clients are not required
      to support client specific throttling.

I have a concern on the Note, since there is one more case we should consid=
er:
An agent that provides service to a realm is not throttling traffic on beha=
lf of its clients but it is anyway the reacting node.
In this case, I expect agent is not supporting client-specific throttling b=
ut just default "all-client" throttling.

A part from that, not sure why this is a "note", rather than regular normat=
ive text. Not sure how "notes" are interpreted in IETF drafts/RFCs.

Thanks
/MCruz

-----Original Message-----
From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN -=
 DE/Munich)
Sent: mi=E9rcoles, 14 de mayo de 2014 12:42
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Sorry, I attached wrong files.
Here are correct files.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:21 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: 'dime@ietf.org list'
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi,

attached is an updated proposed text hopefully reflecting comments from Mar=
ia Cruz and Ben.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:21 AM
To: 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ben,

please see inline

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:05 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to respond =
point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for any=
 DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear to me=
 how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.) <Ulrich>Th=
e 3GPP requirement from 29.809 clause 6.4.7 is "overload mitigation differe=
ntiation per client", it is not "overload mitigation differentiation per re=
acting node". In configurations like this:

+----+       +----+      +---+
| C1 |-------| A1 |------|   |
+----+ \   / +----+      |   |
        \ /              |   |
         X               | S | =20
        / \              |   |
+----+ /   \ +----+      |   |     =20
| C2 |-------| A2 |------|   |
+----+       +----+      +---+
=20
S may want to request a reduction of C1-to-S traffic (no matter whether rou=
ted via A1 or A2), while C2-to-S traffic (no matter whether routed via A1 o=
r A2) is not throttled.

There is no requirement to let S request a reduction of A1-to-S traffic (no=
 matter whether originated by C1 or C2), while A2-to-S traffic (no matter w=
hether originated by C1 or C2) is not throttled. What would be the rational=
 for such a requirement?</Ulrich>

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the origin-hos=
t AVP en route.=20
<Ulrich> This issue #66. Issue #66 seems to address answer messages only. I=
s your concern with request messages?</Ulrich>

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or no=
t,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node somewhere i=
n the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the associated request.=
 Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original request requires extra s=
tate and extra steps.
<Ulrich>I agree. However, your concern is only relevant for agent-support o=
f client specific throttling. If we agree to address only client-support of=
 client specific throttling in the draft (see my response to MCruz), this i=
ssue disappears.  Anyway, my suggested text for clause 4.6  needs to be rev=
ised as answer messages do not contain Destination-Host/Destination-Realm.<=
/Ulrich>


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? I=
 do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office files ve=
ry well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe=
@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity =
of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our in=
itial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate t=
o delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought throug=
h all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specifi=
c" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different=
 normative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably option=
al) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node=
. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wieh=
e@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rath=
er than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are=
 clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the=
 reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve=20
>>> Donovan
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overl=
oad reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on exte=
nsion.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overloa=
d report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a repo=
rting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction per=
centages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of th=
e spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


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From: "Hirschman, Brent B [CTO]" <Brent.Hirschman@sprint.com>
To: "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] Topic 1 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00 -	ECE and CWR
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Subject: Re: [Dime] Topic 1 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00 -	ECE and CWR
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--_000_6280831f07cf4db08ac5edd756ff1ad9PREWE13M04adsprintcom_
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Our request for comments on this draft issue has not had any responses yet.=
  Please take a look at this straightforward, 6 page draft and provide comm=
ents.
I know the overload work is of high importance to the working group.  We fe=
el this draft is complete and need everyone's quick review to capture any a=
reas that need refinement.  Your assistance is appreciated.

Brent Hirschman
Tech Dev Strategist III
Sprint Corporation
6220 Sprint Parkway
Overland Park, KS 66251
Office - 913-762-6736
Mobile - 913-593-6221

From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hirschman, Brent B [=
CTO]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:34 AM
To: dime@ietf.org
Cc: Rajagopal, Arun [CTO]; Sershen, Dan J [CTO]
Subject: [Dime] Topic 1 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00 - =
ECE and CWR

At IETF 89 in London, during the discussion of the draft-ietf-dime-congesti=
on-flow-attributes-00.txt, Two areas were requested to be investigated furt=
her.  We will be addressing them in separate email threads to keep the disc=
ussion focused on each topic.  This is Topic 1.
First discussion topic, whether ECE and CWR flags needed to be added to thi=
s draft.  After further investigation, these flags are already included as =
part of Section 4.1.8.10 or RFC5777.
The TCP-Flag-Type AVP (AVP Code 544) is of type Unsigned32 and
   specifies the TCP control flag types that must be matched.  The first
   16 bits match the TCP header format defined in [RFC3168<http://tools.iet=
f.org/html/rfc3168>], and the
   subsequent 16 bits are unused.  Within the first 16 bits, bits 0 to 3
   are unused and bits 4 to 15 are managed by IANA under the TCP Header
   Flag registry as defined in [RFC3168<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3168>=
].
The support of ECN flags (in this draft) are needed since they were omitted=
 in RFC5777:
                The ECN flags are still required and here is why.  The prob=
lem is that RFC 2474 (DSCP) update was made prior to 3168.  They studied an=
d made recommendations for this situation in RFC 3260 Section 4.
The DS Field has a six bit Diffserv Codepoint and two "currently unused" bi=
ts.
...
It has been pointed out that this leads to inconsistencies and
   ambiguities.  In particular, the "Currently Unused" (CU) bits of the
   DS Field have not been assigned to Diffserv, and subsequent to the
   publication of RFC 2474<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474>, they were a=
ssigned for explicit congestion
   notification, as defined in RFC 3168<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3168>=
 [4<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3260#ref-4>]
...
   Therefore, for use in future documents, including the next update to
   RFC 2474<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474>, the following definitions =
should apply:

      -  the Differentiated Services Field (DSField) is the six most
         significant bits of the (former) IPV4 TOS octet or the (former)
         IPV6 Traffic Class octet.

      -  the Differentiated Services Codepoint (DSCP) is a value which
         is encoded in the DS field, and which each DS Node MUST use to
         select the PHB which is to be experienced by each packet it
         forwards.
   The two least significant bits of the IPV4 TOS octet and the IPV6
   Traffic Class octet are not used by Diffserv.

   When RFC 2474<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474> is updated, considerat=
ion should be given to changing
   the designation "currently unused (CU)" to "explicit congestion
   notification (ECN)" and referencing RFC 3168<http://tools.ietf.org/html/=
rfc3168> (or its successor).

Note here they are essentially dropping the "CU" bits in the definition its=
elf.  This removes overlap in ECN 3186.

For RFC 5777, the authors wrote the AVP definition for DSCP in such a way t=
hat it is not impacted so long as the registry is correct from 2474 and its=
 successors.  Below is the RFC 5777 definition for DSCP.
4.1.8.1<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5777#section-4.1.8.1>.  Diffserv-Code=
-Point AVP

   The Diffserv-Code-Point AVP (AVP Code 535) is of type Enumerated and
   specifies the Differentiated Services Field Codepoints to match in
   the IP header.  The values are managed by IANA under the
   Differentiated Services Field Codepoints registry as defined in
   [RFC2474<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474>].

The registry is to be updated to exclude the LU/Exp DSCPs from 2474.  This =
is specified in RFC 3260.
8<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3260#section-8>. IANA Considerations

   IANA has requested clarification of a point in RFC 2474<http://tools.iet=
f.org/html/rfc2474>, concerning
   registration of experimental/local use DSCPs.  When RFC 2474<http://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc2474> is
   revised, the following should be added to Section 6<http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/rfc3260#section-6>:

      IANA is requested to maintain a registry of RECOMMENDED DSCP
      values assigned by standards action.  EXP/LU values are not to be
      registered.

In summary the ECN flags are no longer considered DSCP "CU" bits.  They are=
 also not covered any IANA value.  This results in a gap in 5777 and requir=
es the update.


Brent Hirschman
Tech Dev Strategist III
Sprint Corporation
6220 Sprint Parkway
Overland Park, KS 66251
Office - 913-762-6736
Mobile - 913-593-6221


________________________________

This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
e use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not =
the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of =
the message.

________________________________

This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
e use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not =
the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of =
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Our request for commen=
ts on this draft issue has not had any responses yet.&nbsp; Please take a l=
ook at this straightforward, 6 page draft and provide comments.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I know the overload wo=
rk is of high importance to the working group.&nbsp; We feel this draft is =
complete and need everyone&#8217;s quick review to capture any areas that n=
eed refinement.&nbsp; Your assistance is appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">Brent Hirschman<o:p></o:=
p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Tech Dev Strategist III<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Sprint Corporation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">6220 Sprint Parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Overland Park, KS 66251<i><o:p></o:p></i></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Office &#8211; 913-762-6736<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Mobile &#8211; 913-593-6221<o:p></o:p></span></=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
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<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> DiME [ma=
ilto:dime-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hirschman, Brent B [CTO]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> dime@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rajagopal, Arun [CTO]; Sershen, Dan J [CTO]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dime] Topic 1 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attribute=
s-00 - ECE and CWR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At IETF 89 in London, during the discussion of the d=
raft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00.txt, Two areas were requested =
to be investigated further.&nbsp; We will be addressing them in separate em=
ail threads to keep the discussion focused
 on each topic.&nbsp; This is Topic 1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First discussion topic, whether ECE and CWR flags ne=
eded to be added to this draft.&nbsp; After further investigation, these fl=
ags are already included as part of Section 4.1.8.10 or RFC5777.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-9.0pt">The TC=
P-Flag-Type AVP (AVP Code 544) is of type Unsigned32 and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-9.0pt">&nbsp;=
&nbsp; specifies the TCP control flag types that must be matched.&nbsp; The=
 first<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-9.0pt">&nbsp;=
&nbsp; 16 bits match the TCP header format defined in [<a href=3D"http://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/rfc3168" title=3D"&quot;The Addition of Explicit Congesti=
on Notification (ECN) to IP&quot;">RFC3168</a>], and the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-9.0pt">&nbsp;=
&nbsp; subsequent 16 bits are unused.&nbsp; Within the first 16 bits, bits =
0 to 3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-9.0pt">&nbsp;=
&nbsp; are unused and bits 4 to 15 are managed by IANA under the TCP Header=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:27.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; Flag regis=
try as defined in [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3168" title=3D"=
&quot;The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP&quot;">R=
FC3168</a>].
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The support of ECN flags (in this draft) are needed =
since they were omitted in RFC5777:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The ECN flags are still required and=
 here is why.&nbsp; The problem is that RFC 2474 (DSCP) update was made pri=
or to 3168.&nbsp; They studied and made recommendations for this situation =
in RFC 3260 Section 4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The DS Field has a&nbsp;six bit Diffserv Codepoint a=
nd two &quot;currently unused&quot; bits.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It has been pointed out that this leads to inconsist=
encies and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; ambiguities.&nbsp; In particular, the &=
quot;Currently Unused&quot; (CU) bits of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; DS Field have not been assigned to Diff=
serv, and subsequent to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; publication of <a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc2474">
RFC 2474</a>, they were assigned for explicit congestion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; notification, as defined in <a href=3D"=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3168">
RFC 3168</a> [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3260#ref-4" title=3D=
"&quot;The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP&quot;">=
4</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Therefore, for use in future documents,=
 including the next update to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc2474">RFC 2474</a>, the following definitions should apply:<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; the Different=
iated Services Field (DSField) is the six most<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sig=
nificant bits of the (former) IPV4 TOS octet or the (former)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IPV=
6 Traffic Class octet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; the Different=
iated Services Codepoint (DSCP) is a value which<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
encoded in the DS field, and which each DS Node MUST use to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sel=
ect the PHB which is to be experienced by each packet it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for=
wards.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; The two least significant bits of the I=
PV4 TOS octet and the IPV6<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Traffic Class octet are not used by Dif=
fserv.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; When <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/rfc2474">RFC 2474</a> is updated, consideration should be given to chan=
ging<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; the designation &quot;currently unused =
(CU)&quot; to &quot;explicit congestion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; notification (ECN)&quot; and referencin=
g <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3168">
RFC 3168</a> (or its successor).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note here they are essentially dropping the &#8220;C=
U&#8221; bits in the definition itself.&nbsp; This removes overlap in ECN 3=
186.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For RFC 5777, the authors wrote the AVP definition f=
or DSCP in such a way that it is not impacted so long as the registry is co=
rrect from 2474 and its successors.&nbsp; Below is the RFC 5777 definition =
for DSCP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"section-4.1.8.1"></a><b><a href=3D"http:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5777#section-4.1.8.1">4.1.8.1</a>.&nbsp; Diffserv-C=
ode-Point AVP</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; The Diffserv-Code-Point AVP (AVP Code 5=
35) is of type Enumerated and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; specifies the Differentiated Services F=
ield Codepoints to match in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; the IP header.&nbsp; The values are man=
aged by IANA under the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Differentiated Services Field Codepoint=
s registry as defined in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/=
rfc2474" title=3D"&quot;Definition of the Differentiated Services Field (DS=
 Field) in the IPv4 and IPv6 Headers&quot;">RFC2474</a>].<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The registry is to be updated to exclude the LU/Exp =
DSCPs from 2474.&nbsp; This is specified in RFC 3260.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"section-8"></a><b><a href=3D"http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc3260#section-8">8</a>. IANA Considerations</b><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; IANA has requested clarification of a p=
oint in <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474">
RFC 2474</a>, concerning<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; registration of experimental/local use =
DSCPs.&nbsp; When <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2474">
RFC 2474</a> is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; revised, the following should be added =
to <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3260#section-6">
Section 6</a>:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IANA is requested to =
maintain a registry of RECOMMENDED DSCP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;values assigned by st=
andards action.&nbsp; EXP/LU values are not to be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; registered.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In summary the ECN flags are no longer considered DS=
CP &#8220;CU&#8221; bits.&nbsp; They are also not covered any IANA value.&n=
bsp; This results in a gap in 5777 and requires the update.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">Brent Hirschman</span></=
i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Tech Dev Strategist III</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Sprint Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">6220 Sprint Parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Overland Park, KS 66251</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Office &#8211; 913-762-6736</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Mobile &#8211; 913-593-6221</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;se=
rif&quot;">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:gray"><br>
This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
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From: "Hirschman, Brent B [CTO]" <Brent.Hirschman@sprint.com>
To: "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] Topic 2 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00 -	Use Cases
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Our request for comments on this draft issue has not had any responses yet.=
  Please take a look at this straightforward, 6 page draft and provide comm=
ents.
I know the overload work is of high importance to the working group.  We fe=
el this draft is complete and need everyone's quick review to capture any a=
reas that need refinement.  Your assistance is appreciated.


Brent Hirschman
Tech Dev Strategist III
Sprint Corporation
6220 Sprint Parkway
Overland Park, KS 66251
Office - 913-762-6736
Mobile - 913-593-6221

From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hirschman, Brent B [=
CTO]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:36 AM
To: dime@ietf.org
Cc: Rajagopal, Arun [CTO]; Sershen, Dan J [CTO]
Subject: [Dime] Topic 2 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00 - =
Use Cases

At IETF 89 in London, during the discussion of the draft-ietf-dime-congesti=
on-flow-attributes-00.txt, Two areas were requested to be investigated furt=
her.  We will be addressing them in separate email threads to keep the disc=
ussion focused on each topic.  This is Topic 2:

Second, we were requested to investigate providing example use cases of ECN=
.  RFC5777 already provides a set of use cases for reporting and ECN is jus=
t one of many such reporting parameters such as byte count.  Adding a parag=
raph of text such as the following may add some information but the authors=
 feel little incremental information is needed because of the work already =
in RFC 5777.
"Diameter nodes along the bearer path can implement filters to collect acco=
unting and policy control information based on these congestion parameters =
similar to byte count information. These filters on flows and overall node =
congestion for these AVPs can report a measure of quality of byte counts to=
 collection points in the network where decisions can be made to mitigate o=
r mediate any congestion conditions for accounting or real time policy cont=
rol.  These AVPs provide supplemental information as described in the use c=
ases discussed in RFC5777."

Thus, the authors are proposing no modification to the working group draft =
at this time.  Comments are welcome.



Brent Hirschman
Tech Dev Strategist III
Sprint Corporation
6220 Sprint Parkway
Overland Park, KS 66251
Office - 913-762-6736
Mobile - 913-593-6221


________________________________

This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
e use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not =
the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of =
the message.

________________________________

This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
e use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not =
the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of =
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Our request for commen=
ts on this draft issue has not had any responses yet.&nbsp; Please take a l=
ook at this straightforward, 6 page draft and provide comments.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I know the overload wo=
rk is of high importance to the working group.&nbsp; We feel this draft is =
complete and need everyone&#8217;s quick review to capture any areas that n=
eed refinement.&nbsp; Your assistance is appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">Brent Hirschman<o:p></o:=
p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Tech Dev Strategist III<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Sprint Corporation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">6220 Sprint Parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Overland Park, KS 66251<i><o:p></o:p></i></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Office &#8211; 913-762-6736<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Mobile &#8211; 913-593-6221<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> DiME [ma=
ilto:dime-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hirschman, Brent B [CTO]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> dime@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rajagopal, Arun [CTO]; Sershen, Dan J [CTO]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Dime] Topic 2 of draft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attribute=
s-00 - Use Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At IETF 89 in London, during the discussion of the d=
raft-ietf-dime-congestion-flow-attributes-00.txt, Two areas were requested =
to be investigated further.&nbsp; We will be addressing them in separate em=
ail threads to keep the discussion focused
 on each topic.&nbsp; This is Topic 2:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Second, we were requested to investigate providing e=
xample use cases of ECN.&nbsp; RFC5777 already provides a set of use cases =
for reporting and ECN is just one of many such reporting parameters such as=
 byte count.&nbsp; Adding a paragraph of text
 such as the following may add some information but the authors feel little=
 incremental information is needed because of the work already in RFC 5777.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in">&#8220;D=
iameter nodes along the bearer path can implement filters to collect accoun=
ting and policy control information based on these congestion parameters si=
milar to byte count information. These filters
 on flows and overall node congestion for these AVPs can report a measure o=
f quality of byte counts to collection points in the network where decision=
s can be made to mitigate or mediate any congestion conditions for accounti=
ng or real time policy control.&nbsp;
 These AVPs provide supplemental information as described in the use cases =
discussed in RFC5777.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thus, the authors are proposing no modification to t=
he working group draft at this time.&nbsp; Comments are welcome.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:18.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Century&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">Brent Hirschman</span></=
i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Tech Dev Strategist III</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Sprint Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">6220 Sprint Parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Overland Park, KS 66251</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Office &#8211; 913-762-6736</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Century&quot;,&quot=
;serif&quot;">Mobile &#8211; 913-593-6221</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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This e-mail may contain Sprint proprietary information intended for the sol=
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the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of =
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New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From: "Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)" <ulrich.wiehe@nsn.com>
To: ext Maria Cruz Bartolome <maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com>, "ext Ben Campbell" <ben@nostrum.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
Thread-Index: AQHPZgm+yrXT2l/wZk6F5wDpr1R4dpsxuVOAgAAwT4CAAWoaQIAAKTiAgAAr/pD//+J+AIABP5QAgAsjLYCAAAfSwIAEssvQgAUG1qA=
Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 15:16:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
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Hi Maria Cruz,

I'm not sure to correctly understand your case.
I thought that an agent either does not perform throttling or performs thro=
ttling on behalf of a non supporting client.

Can you please clarify.

With regard to the note I'm ok to remove "Note: ".

Best regards
Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Maria Cruz Bartolome [mailto:maria.cruz.bartolome@ericsson.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 2:19 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hello Ulrich,

In the following description in your text:

   OLR_CLIENT_SPECIFIC_THROTTLING (0x0000000000000002)

      When this flag is set by the reacting overload control endpoint it
      means that client specific throttling is supported. When this flag
      is set by the reporting overload control endpoint it means that
      client specific throttling is requested. When the reacting overload
      control endpoint did not indicate support of client specific throttli=
ng,
      the reporting overload control endpoint shall not request client
      specific throttling.
      Note: Reacting nodes which are clients trivially do support client
      specific throttling. Similarly, reacting nodes which are agents that
      perform throttling on behalf of a single client do support client=20
      specific throttling. In contrast, reacting nodes which are agents
      that perform throttling on behalf of several clients are not required
      to support client specific throttling.

I have a concern on the Note, since there is one more case we should consid=
er:
An agent that provides service to a realm is not throttling traffic on beha=
lf of its clients but it is anyway the reacting node.
In this case, I expect agent is not supporting client-specific throttling b=
ut just default "all-client" throttling.

A part from that, not sure why this is a "note", rather than regular normat=
ive text. Not sure how "notes" are interpreted in IETF drafts/RFCs.

Thanks
/MCruz

-----Original Message-----
From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN -=
 DE/Munich)
Sent: mi=E9rcoles, 14 de mayo de 2014 12:42
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); ext Ben Campbell
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Sorry, I attached wrong files.
Here are correct files.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:21 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: 'dime@ietf.org list'
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi,

attached is an updated proposed text hopefully reflecting comments from Mar=
ia Cruz and Ben.

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 11:21 AM
To: 'ext Ben Campbell'
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: RE: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ben,

please see inline

Ulrich

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:05 PM
To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
Cc: dime@ietf.org list
Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35

Hi Ulrich,

(I can make that work, although in the future, it's much easier to respond =
point-by-point to plain text.)

I have a few of concerns with that approach:

1. I would like to see a solution that allows node-specific reports for any=
 DOIC endpoint, not just for clients. (but it's not immediately clear to me=
 how a reporting node might know to target non-adjacent agents.) <Ulrich>Th=
e 3GPP requirement from 29.809 clause 6.4.7 is "overload mitigation differe=
ntiation per client", it is not "overload mitigation differentiation per re=
acting node". In configurations like this:

+----+       +----+      +---+
| C1 |-------| A1 |------|   |
+----+ \   / +----+      |   |
        \ /              |   |
         X               | S | =20
        / \              |   |
+----+ /   \ +----+      |   |     =20
| C2 |-------| A2 |------|   |
+----+       +----+      +---+
=20
S may want to request a reduction of C1-to-S traffic (no matter whether rou=
ted via A1 or A2), while C2-to-S traffic (no matter whether routed via A1 o=
r A2) is not throttled.

There is no requirement to let S request a reduction of A1-to-S traffic (no=
 matter whether originated by C1 or C2), while A2-to-S traffic (no matter w=
hether originated by C1 or C2) is not throttled. What would be the rational=
 for such a requirement?</Ulrich>

2. I do not trust that non-supporting agents will not change the origin-hos=
t AVP en route.=20
<Ulrich> This issue #66. Issue #66 seems to address answer messages only. I=
s your concern with request messages?</Ulrich>

3. Whether or not the identity of the targeted node goes into the OLR or no=
t,  I would prefer a solution that identifies the targeted node somewhere i=
n the message that actually carries the OLR, not in the associated request.=
 Forcing reacting-nodes to refer back the original request requires extra s=
tate and extra steps.
<Ulrich>I agree. However, your concern is only relevant for agent-support o=
f client specific throttling. If we agree to address only client-support of=
 client specific throttling in the draft (see my response to MCruz), this i=
ssue disappears.  Anyway, my suggested text for clause 4.6  needs to be rev=
ised as answer messages do not contain Destination-Host/Destination-Realm.<=
/Ulrich>


On May 6, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe@n=
sn.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> attached is the fie converted to pdf. Let me know if this works for you.
>=20
> Ulrich
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:13 PM
> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>=20
> Hi Ulrich,
>=20
> Any chance you can send that as text, rather than an office attachment? I=
 do much of my IETF work from devices that do not render ms office files ve=
ry well.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
> On May 6, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wiehe=
@nsn.com> wrote:
>=20
>> Ben,
>>=20
>> I don't think we need to add an AVP that contains the diameter identity =
of the "targeted" reacting-node to the OC-OLR.
>>=20
>> Please find proposed modifications attached.
>>=20
>> Comments are welcome.
>>=20
>> Ulrich
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:09 PM
>> To: Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
>> Cc: ext Steve Donovan; dime@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>=20
>> I think the issue needs non-trivial thought, and it wasn't one of our in=
itial requirements. I'm okay if it gets into the base draft, but I'd hate t=
o delay completion of the base draft over it.
>>=20
>> Some examples of areas that need further thought: Have we thought throug=
h all the use cases for this? Why do we assume we never need "agent-specifi=
c" overload reports? Can we do this in a way that doesn't require different=
 normative language for agents and clients when acting as reporting nodes?
>>=20
>> My instinct is that the real answer to this is to add a (probably option=
al) AVP that contains the diameter identity of the "targeted" reacting-node=
. But we would need to think through use cases first.
>>=20
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:25 AM, Wiehe, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) <ulrich.wieh=
e@nsn.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Steve,
>>>=20
>>> I still believe it is better to address the issue in the base spec rath=
er than with an extension.
>>> I have outlined a very simple approach:
>>> -          Reacting nodes indicate in request messages whether they are=
 clients or agents.
>>> -          Reporting nodes do not do client specific reporting when the=
 reacting node is an agent.
>>>=20
>>> Ulrich
>>>=20
>>> From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Steve=20
>>> Donovan
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 3:24 PM
>>> To: dime@ietf.org
>>> Subject: [Dime] DOIC: Proposed resolution to issue #35
>>>=20
>>> All,
>>>=20
>>> I believe that we reached consensus on issue #35 (client specific overl=
oad reports) that this functionality should be deferred to a follow on exte=
nsion.
>>>=20
>>> To this end, I propose adding the following to appendix A:
>>>=20
>>> A.4 Client specific overload reports
>>>=20
>>> This specification assumes that a reporting node sends a single overloa=
d report to all reacting nodes.  This proposed extension would allow a repo=
rting node to send different overload reports, with different reduction per=
centages (assuming the loss algorithm) to individual clients.=20
>>>=20
>>> If we have agreement on this text, I'll add it to the -03 version of th=
e spec and close this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> DiME mailing list
>>> DiME@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
>>=20
>> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.docx>
>=20
> <draft-ietf-dime-ovli-02 Client specific Throttling.pdf>


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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6733,
"Diameter Base Protocol".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6733&eid=3997

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>

Section: GLOBAL

Original Text
-------------
Section 2.1.

   The base Diameter protocol is run on port 3868 for both TCP [RFC0793]
   and SCTP [RFC4960].  For TLS [RFC5246] and Datagram Transport Layer
   Security (DTLS) [RFC6347], a Diameter node that initiates a
   connection prior to any message exchanges MUST run on port 5658.  It
   is assumed that TLS is run on top of TCP when it is used, and DTLS is
   run on top of SCTP when it is used.

   If the Diameter peer does not support receiving TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP
   connections on port 5658 (i.e., the peer complies only with RFC
   3588), then the initiator MAY revert to using TCP or SCTP on port
   3868.  Note that this scheme is kept only for the purpose of backward
   compatibility and that there are inherent security vulnerabilities
   when the initial CER/CEA messages are sent unprotected (see
   Section 5.6).

   Diameter clients MUST support either TCP or SCTP; agents and servers
   SHOULD support both.

   A Diameter node MAY initiate connections from a source port other
   than the one that it declares it accepts incoming connections on, and
   it MUST always be prepared to receive connections on port 3868 for
   TCP or SCTP and port 5658 for TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP connections.
   When DNS-based peer discovery (Section 5.2) is used, the port numbers
   received from SRV records take precedence over the default ports
   (3868 and 5658).

Section 4.3.1.

      port               = ":" 1*DIGIT

                      ; One of the ports used to listen for
                      ; incoming connections.
                      ; If absent, the default Diameter port
                      ; (3868) is assumed if no transport
                      ; security is used and port 5658 when
                      ; transport security (TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP)
                      ; is used.

Corrected Text
--------------
Section 2.1.

   The base Diameter protocol is run on port 3868 for both TCP [RFC0793]
   and SCTP [RFC4960].  For TLS [RFC5246] and Datagram Transport Layer
   Security (DTLS) [RFC6347], a Diameter node that initiates a
   connection prior to any message exchanges MUST run on port 5868.  It
   is assumed that TLS is run on top of TCP when it is used, and DTLS is
   run on top of SCTP when it is used.

   If the Diameter peer does not support receiving TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP
   connections on port 5868 (i.e., the peer complies only with RFC
   3588), then the initiator MAY revert to using TCP or SCTP on port
   3868.  Note that this scheme is kept only for the purpose of backward
   compatibility and that there are inherent security vulnerabilities
   when the initial CER/CEA messages are sent unprotected (see
   Section 5.6).

   Diameter clients MUST support either TCP or SCTP; agents and servers
   SHOULD support both.

   A Diameter node MAY initiate connections from a source port other
   than the one that it declares it accepts incoming connections on, and
   it MUST always be prepared to receive connections on port 3868 for
   TCP or SCTP and port 5868 for TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP connections.
   When DNS-based peer discovery (Section 5.2) is used, the port numbers
   received from SRV records take precedence over the default ports
   (3868 and 5868).

Section 4.3.1.

      port               = ":" 1*DIGIT

                      ; One of the ports used to listen for
                      ; incoming connections.
                      ; If absent, the default Diameter port
                      ; (3868) is assumed if no transport
                      ; security is used and port 5868 when
                      ; transport security (TLS/TCP and DTLS/SCTP)
                      ; is used.

Notes
-----
RFC 6733 defined the Diameter port number for secure transport in IANA considerations Section 11.4. to be 5868. This is also in IANA port numbers registry "Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry". However, the RFC 6733 body text uses different port number in Sections 2.1. and 4.3.1. for secure transports. Since the IANA registry already contains the port number 5868 instead of the body text used value 5658, the values in Sections 2.1. and 4.3.1. should be 5868 instead of 5658.

Instructions:
-------------
This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG)
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC6733 (draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis-33)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Diameter Base Protocol
Publication Date    : October 2012
Author(s)           : V. Fajardo, Ed., J. Arkko, J. Loughney, G. Zorn, Ed.
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : Diameter Maintenance and Extensions
Area                : Operations and Management
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG

