From nobody Wed Oct 3 11:17:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB20128D68 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:16:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XEBjzqx-W6E6 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz131.inmotionhosting.com (biz131.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.247.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE464128BAC for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [137.254.7.153] (port=64563 helo=SDmac.local) by biz131.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1g7lhI-0075uf-Sd; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 11:16:53 -0700 To: "NOEL, ERIC C" , "dime@ietf.org" References: <53c133a5-8bf5-6ac4-aa8d-5a3a6607e5b1@usdonovans.com> <432544DCDB78E046B9E22D0EE8F41903262A0359@MISOUT7MSGUSRDC.ITServices.sbc.com> <086af6f5-5b12-6c6a-2816-2ee4f8c5ad7d@usdonovans.com> <432544DCDB78E046B9E22D0EE8F41903262A35CB@MISOUT7MSGUSRDC.ITServices.sbc.com> From: Steve Donovan Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 13:18:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <432544DCDB78E046B9E22D0EE8F41903262A35CB@MISOUT7MSGUSRDC.ITServices.sbc.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8C79399E49C4538FA013F871" X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz131.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - usdonovans.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz131.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: srdonovan@usdonovans.com X-Authenticated-Sender: biz131.inmotionhosting.com: srdonovan@usdonovans.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 18:16:58 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8C79399E49C4538FA013F871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric, Thanks for your feedback. My responses are inline. I will submit a new version of the draft with these changes the previously made changes shortly. Steve On 10/1/18 2:20 PM, NOEL, ERIC C wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > > > Here are my comments/answers: > > > > §7.3: "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge > about the reporting node (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), it can be > beneficial to choose a value of TAU based on how many reacting nodes > will be sending requests to the reporting node.” > > I previously commented that this requires knowledge of other traffic sources, not just the reporting node. I did not see a response. > > SRD> I don't understand the issue. I'm hoping Eric can comment or you > can clarify. > *EN> Proposing to change "In situations where reacting nodes are > configured with some knowledge about the reporting node (e.g., > operator pre-provisioning), ….” to "In situations where reacting nodes > are configured with some knowledge about the reporting node and other > traffic sources (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), …”* > SRD> Done. > > ** > > > > §7.3.1: I found the text hard to follow. It would help to declare all the identifiers and initialization up front, and to present things in more of a stepwise fashion. > > *EN> This paragraph is the result of a compromise between multiple > [RFC7415] reviewers on how to describe the rate based algorithm. The > pseudo-code for the algorithm includes a summary description of all > the variables used in the algorithm. Proposing to move the pseudo code > at the beginning of the section (for both 7.3.1 & 7.3.2).* > SRD> Done. > > > > - T is effectively a time interval, right? It would help to say that, especially later when you subtract a different time interval from it. > > SRD> I'll leave this for Eric to handle. > *EN> Yes, T = 1/[OC-Maximum-Rate] or “ inter-Diameter request > interval” or “inter-transmission interval”.* > SRD> I'm assuming that moving the pseudo-code addresses this issue as it clearly states that T is the inter-transmission interval. > > > ** > > §7.3.2: > > - “ Request candidates for reduction, requests not subject to reduction (except under extenuating circumstances when there aren’t any messages in the first category that can be reduced).”: > > That seems like an awkward way to say that the second category is the set of requests that is only subject to reduction if there are no messages left in the first category. > > - “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.”: I suggest you refrain from calling it “obvious”. > *EN> Proposing to change “ This can be generalized to n priorities > using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.” to “ This can be > generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2.”* SRD> Done > ** > > §7.3.3: Paragraph starting with “ Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…”: I think you increase the bucket _count_, right? > > SRD> I'll leave these for Eric to handle. > > *EN>* *This implementation of the Leaky Bucket algorithm relies on a bucket > of real-valued content. Proposing to change “Then (only) if the > arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…” into “Then > (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket content by an > amount…”* SRD> Done > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eric Noel > > *AT&T Labs, Inc.* > /Rethink Possible/ > > > > Optimization, Reliability and Customer Analytics > > 200 South Laurel Avenue, D5-3C38 > Middletown, NJ 07748 > P: 732.420.4174 > > ecnoel@att.com > > > > *From:*Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:47 AM > *To:* NOEL, ERIC C > *Subject:* Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft > > > > Thanks > > On 9/26/18 10:37 AM, NOEL, ERIC C wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > > > Will take a look shortly (meant to do it last week but got side > tracked). > > Thanks, > > > > Eric Noel > > *AT&T Labs, Inc.* > /Rethink Possible/ > > > > Optimization, Reliability and Customer Analytics > > 200 South Laurel Avenue, D5-3C38 > Middletown, NJ 07748 > P: 732.420.4174 > > ecnoel@att.com > > > > *From:*Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:26 AM > *To:* NOEL, ERIC C > *Subject:* Fwd: Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft > > > > Eric, > > Let me know if you won't be able to address the questions I left > for you in Ben's comments on the Diameter rate draft. > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *Subject: * > > > > Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft > > *Date: * > > > > Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:58:21 -0500 > > *From: * > > > > Steve Donovan > > > *To: * > > > > dime@ietf.org , Eric Noel > > > > > I've dealt with the majority of the remaining issues in this email. > > There are a few questions that deal with section 7 that I have > left for Eric to address. > > Steve > > On 9/15/18 6:56 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > > Hi, thanks for posting the update; I think it is making progress. However, I still have some comments I would like to address before IETF LC: > > > > Thanks! > > > > Ben. > > > > Substantive Comments: > > > > - General: I still think more discussion is needed about allocating rate to multiple input sources. I get that the actual allocation is a matter of local policy, but there’s still implications that need discussion. I’m not sure I got my concern across in previous discussion, so here’s another attempt: > > > > The issue I think needs elaboration on is how the offered load varies with the number of sources times the (average) rate per each source. That is, if the number of sources changes, the reacting node may need to change the rate limits assigned to each existing source. > > > > As a hypothetical example, lets assume a reporting node wants to limit its entire offered load to 1000 tps. Further assume it has 10 active reacting nodes (all supporting the rate algorithm). Local policy is to allocate the rate limit equally across sources. So it sends an OLR to each of those clients to give it a rate limit of 100 tps. Now, if another 10 reacting nodes become active, it needs to reallocate the load across all 20, giving each a limit of 50 tps. Now, if some of those reacting nodes go off-line, or simply reduce their activity beneath the limit for an extended period of time, the reporting node may need to increase the allocation to the remaining nodes. > > > > This is a fairly fundamental difference between rate and load; rate uses absolute numbers while load uses percentages. > > SRD> See previous email. > > > §5.1: > > > > - The text is still not clear when a reporting node must send the first OLR. I understand that the choice of when to set a rate limit is local policy, but some of the text in this section suggests to me that you expect a reporting node to send an OLR immediately when it selects the rate algorithm for a specific reacting node. > > > > For example, paragraph 6 says: > > > > "A reporting node that has selected the rate overload abatement algorithm MUST indicate the rate requested to be applied by DOIC reacting nodes in the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP included in the OC-OLR AVP." > > > > This needs to talk about _when_ it must do that. Without some comment, it seems like it means “when it selects the algorithm” (i.e. “when you indicate support” ). That seems to conflict with the idea of this being local policy. > > SRD> Well, it must indicate the rate anytime an OLR is sent. The > when is specified in RFC7683, Section 5.2.3. Here's part of that > section (paragraph 1) included to hopefully illustrate that no > additional wording is needed in the rate draft: > > If there is an active OCS entry, then a reporting node SHOULD > include > the OC-OLR AVP in all answers to requests that contain the > OC-Supported-Features AVP and that match the active OCS entry. > > > > > - new 5th paragraph: Why SHOULD instead of MUST? Is there a situation where you have an OCS but no allocated rate? (e.g. you’ve selected the rate algorithm for the reacting node, but have not send an OLR?) > > SRD> There is a possible implementation that assumes the rate for > each reacting node is calculated by dividing the number of active > nodes by the maximum rate. With this implementation the OCS would > not require storing the rate. I did see an error in that > paragraph, and as such, I've changed that paragraph to the following: > > The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to the > reacting note. > > Old text: > > The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to each > reacting note. > > New text: > > The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to the > reacting note. > > > > > > §5.4, paragraph 1: > > > > Discussion indicated that the intent of this paragraph was the reacting node keeps OCS for each server than indicated support for the rate algorithm. But I don’t see text that says when the reacting note needs to actually create the state entry. I think the answer is “immediately when a reporting node indicates support”, right? > > SRD> This is covered by the following paragraph from RFC7683: > > If the received OLR is for a new overload condition, then a > reacting > node MUST generate a new OCS entry for the overload condition. > > > > > §5.6, first two paragraphs: > > > > I still think the text talking about using different algorithms needs to say something normative about the characteristics of those algorithms. Janet’s comments indicated the normative text is in §7.3.1. But that’s part of the algorithm that they MAY use, so it would not be constraining against other algorithm choices. Perhaps the 2nd paragraph should be normative? > > SRD> How about the following change in paragraph 2: > > Old text: > > Note: Other algorithms for controlling the rate can be > implemented > by the reacting node as long as they result in the correct > rate of > traffic being sent to the reporting node. > > New text: > > Other algorithms for controlling the rate MAY be implemented > by the reacting node. Any algorithm implemented MUST result > in the correct rate of traffic being sent to the reporting node. > > > > > §7.2: “ But the resulting request rate presented to the overloaded reporting node will converge towards the target Diameter request rate.” > > > > Wasn’t there discussion to change this to “... the target Diameter request rate or a lower rate”? > > SRD> Agreed, change made. > > > > > §7.3: "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge > > about the reporting node (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), it can be > > beneficial to choose a value of TAU based on how many reacting nodes > > will be sending requests to the reporting node.” > > > > I previously commented that this requires knowledge of other traffic sources, not just the reporting node. I did not see a response. > > SRD> I don't understand the issue. I'm hoping Eric can comment or > you can clarify. > > > > > Editorial Comments: > > > > [I note a number of editorial comments that fell into the “made changes unless indicated otherwise” category did not seem to get changed. I included those here again.] > > SRD> My apologies if I missed these in the last refresh. > > > > > - There are still things reported by IDNits that need checking. Some are obviously noise, but some appear to be real. (Line length, references in abstract, and references to RFC 5226) > > SRD> There were no issues reported by IDNits when I submitted the > document. Is there a different IDnits check than the one used > when submitting drafts? > > > > > - Was there a reason not to use the RFC 8174 boilerplate in the “Requirements” section? (I thought you had intended to do so.) > > SRD> Yes, this slipped through the cracks. Change made. > > > > > §1: > > - first paragraph: There were some editorial fixes that I thought were agreed that did not appear in the new version: > > s/“protect the stability”/“ensure the stability” > > SRD> Change made > > > s/“subjected with”/“subjected to” > > SRD> Change made > > > (new comment): In the new last sentence, is there a reason for the all-caps? That’s normally reserved for normative keywords. > > SRD> I don't remember. I've changed it to all lower. > > > > > §4: > > - first paragraph: Please consider active voice in the last sentence, > > SRD> Old text: > > This document defines the rate abatement algorithm (referred to as > rate in this document) feature. Support for the rate feature by a > DOIC node will be indicated by a new value of the OC-Feature-Vector > AVP, as described in Section 6.1.1, per the rules defined in > [RFC7683]. > > New Text: > > This document defines the rate abatement algorithm (referred to as > rate in this document) feature. A DOIC node indicates support > for the > rate feature by indicating a new value of the OC-Feature-Vector > AVP, as described in Section 6.1.1, per the rules defined in > [RFC7683]. > > > > > §5.1: > > - New 5th paragraph: > > s/entery/entry > > SRD> Change made. > > > > > §7.1, 2nd paragraph: “ signal one another support for rate-based overload > > control”: This seems awkward; are there missing words? Perhaps there should be something like “their” or “that they” between “another” and “support”? > > SRD> Changed from: > > Following the procedures defined in [RFC7683], the reacting > node and > reporting node signal one another support for rate-based overload > control. > > To: > > Following the procedures defined in [RFC7683], the reacting > node and > reporting node signal their support for rate-based overload > control. > > > > > §7.2, last two paragraphs: The MUSTs do not seem necessary. 2119 keywords should be used when there is some sort of choice or room for error. You don’t need them to define the basic operation of the protocol. > > SRD> I'm okay with removing the MUSTs. Here the proposed change: > > Old: > > Upon detection of overload, and the determination to invoke > overload > controls, the reporting node MUST follow the specifications in > [RFC7683] to notify its clients of the allocated target maximum > Diameter request rate and to notify them that the rate overload > abatement is in effect. > > The reporting node MUST use the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP defined in this > specification to communicate a target maximum Diameter request rate > to each of its clients. > > New: > > Upon detection of overload, and the determination to invoke > overload > controls, the reporting node follows the specifications in > [RFC7683] to notify its clients of the allocated target maximum > Diameter request rate and to notify them that the rate overload > abatement is in effect. > > The reporting node uses the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP defined in this > specification to communicate a target maximum Diameter request rate > to each of its clients. > > > > > §7.3.1: I found the text hard to follow. It would help to declare all the identifiers and initialization up front, and to present things in more of a stepwise fashion. > > > > - T is effectively a time interval, right? It would help to say that, especially later when you subtract a different time interval from it. > > SRD> I'll leave this for Eric to handle. > > > > > - paragraph 9: Should “admit” be “emit”? > > > > - the example code has several mentions of SIP requests. > > SRD> These have been changed to Diameter requests > > > > > §7.3.2: > > > > - “ Request candidates for reduction, requests not subject to reduction (except under extenuating circumstances when there aren’t any messages in the first category that can be reduced).”: > > > > That seems like an awkward way to say that the second category is the set of requests that is only subject to reduction if there are no messages left in the first category. > > > > - “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.”: I suggest you refrain from calling it “obvious”. > > > > §7.3.3: Paragraph starting with “ Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…”: I think you increase the bucket _count_, right? > > SRD> I'll leave these for Eric to handle. > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Steve Donovan wrote: > > > > I've posted a new version of the rate draft. > > > > I've attached the diff file. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > DiME mailing list > > DiME@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > DiME mailing list > > DiME@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > > > > > > --------------8C79399E49C4538FA013F871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric,

Thanks for your feedback. 

My responses are inline.

I will submit a new version of the draft with these changes the previously made changes shortly.

Steve

On 10/1/18 2:20 PM, NOEL, ERIC C wrote:

Hi Steve,

 

Here are my comments/answers:

 

§7.3: "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge
   about the reporting node (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), it can be
   beneficial to choose a value of TAU based on how many reacting nodes
   will be sending requests to the reporting node.”
 
I previously commented that this requires knowledge of other traffic sources, not just the reporting node. I did not see a response.

SRD> I don't understand the issue.  I'm hoping Eric can comment or you can clarify.
EN> Proposing to change "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge about the reporting node (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), ….” to "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge about the reporting node and other traffic sources (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), …”

SRD> Done.

 

§7.3.1: I found the text hard to follow. It would help to declare all the identifiers and initialization up front, and to present things in more of a stepwise fashion.

EN> This paragraph is the result of a compromise between multiple [RFC7415] reviewers on how to describe the rate based algorithm. The pseudo-code for the algorithm includes a summary description of all the variables used in the algorithm. Proposing to move the pseudo code at the beginning of the section (for both 7.3.1 & 7.3.2).

SRD> Done.


 
- T is effectively a time interval, right? It would help to say that, especially later when you subtract a different time interval from it.

SRD> I'll leave this for Eric to handle.
EN> Yes, T = 1/[OC-Maximum-Rate] or “ inter-Diameter request interval” or “inter-transmission interval”.

SRD> I'm assuming that moving the pseudo-code addresses this issue as it clearly states that T is the inter-transmission interval.


§7.3.2:
 
- “ Request candidates for reduction, requests not subject to reduction (except under extenuating circumstances when there aren’t any messages in the first category that can be reduced).”:
 
That seems like an awkward way to say that the second category is the set of requests that is only subject to reduction if there are no messages left in the first category.
 
- “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.”: I suggest you refrain from calling it “obvious”.
 EN> Proposing to change “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.” to  “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2.”
SRD> Done
 
§7.3.3: Paragraph starting with “ Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…”: I think you increase the bucket _count_, right?

SRD> I'll leave these for Eric to handle. 

EN> This implementation of the Leaky Bucket algorithm relies on a bucket of real-valued content.  Proposing to change “Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…” into “Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket content by an amount…”
SRD> Done

 

 

Thanks,

 

Eric Noel

AT&T Labs, Inc.
Rethink Possible

 

Optimization, Reliability and Customer Analytics

200 South Laurel Avenue, D5-3C38
Middletown, NJ 07748
P: 732.420.4174

ecnoel@att.com

 

From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:47 AM
To: NOEL, ERIC C <en5192@att.com>
Subject: Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft

 

Thanks

On 9/26/18 10:37 AM, NOEL, ERIC C wrote:

Hi Steve,

 

Will take a look shortly (meant to do it last week but got side tracked).

Thanks,

 

Eric Noel

AT&T Labs, Inc.
Rethink Possible

 

Optimization, Reliability and Customer Analytics

200 South Laurel Avenue, D5-3C38
Middletown, NJ 07748
P: 732.420.4174

ecnoel@att.com

 

From: Steve Donovan [mailto:srdonovan@usdonovans.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:26 AM
To: NOEL, ERIC C <en5192@att.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft

 

Eric,

Let me know if you won't be able to address the questions I left for you in Ben's comments on the Diameter rate draft.

Thanks,

Steve



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:

Re: [Dime] New version of DOIC rate draft

Date:

Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:58:21 -0500

From:

Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com>

To:

dime@ietf.org, Eric Noel <ecnoel@research.att.com>



I've dealt with the majority of the remaining issues in this email.

There are a few questions that deal with section 7 that I have left for Eric to address.

Steve

On 9/15/18 6:56 PM, Ben Campbell wrote:

Hi, thanks for posting the update; I think it is making progress. However,  I still have some comments I would like to address before IETF LC:
 
Thanks!
 
Ben.
 
Substantive Comments:
 
- General: I still think more discussion is needed about allocating rate to multiple input sources. I get that the actual allocation is a matter of local policy, but there’s still implications that need discussion. I’m not sure I got my concern across in previous discussion, so here’s another attempt:
 
The issue I think needs elaboration on is how the offered load varies with the number of sources times the (average) rate per each source. That is, if the number of sources changes, the reacting node may need to change the rate limits assigned to each existing source.
 
As a hypothetical example, lets assume a reporting node wants to limit its entire offered load to 1000 tps. Further assume it has 10 active reacting nodes (all supporting the rate algorithm). Local policy is to allocate the rate limit equally across sources. So it sends an OLR to each of those clients to give it a rate limit of 100 tps. Now, if another 10 reacting nodes become active, it needs to reallocate the load across all 20, giving each a limit of 50 tps. Now, if some of those reacting nodes go off-line, or simply reduce their activity beneath the limit for an extended period of time, the reporting node may need to increase the allocation to the remaining nodes.
 
This is a fairly fundamental difference between rate and load; rate uses absolute numbers while load uses percentages.

SRD> See previous email.


§5.1:
 
- The text is still not clear when a reporting node must send the first OLR. I understand that the choice of when to set a rate limit is local policy, but some of the text in this section suggests to me that you expect a reporting node to send an OLR immediately when it selects the rate algorithm for a specific reacting node.
 
For example, paragraph 6 says:
 
"A reporting node that has selected the rate overload abatement algorithm MUST indicate the rate requested to be applied by DOIC reacting nodes in the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP included in the OC-OLR AVP."
 
This needs to talk about _when_ it must do that. Without some comment, it seems like it means “when it selects the algorithm” (i.e. “when you indicate support” ). That seems to conflict with the idea of this being local policy.

SRD> Well, it must indicate the rate anytime an OLR is sent.  The when is specified in RFC7683, Section 5.2.3.  Here's part of that section (paragraph 1) included to hopefully illustrate that no additional wording is needed in the rate draft:

   If there is an active OCS entry, then a reporting node SHOULD include
   the OC-OLR AVP in all answers to requests that contain the
   OC-Supported-Features AVP and that match the active OCS entry.


 
- new 5th paragraph: Why SHOULD instead of MUST? Is there a situation where you have an OCS but no allocated rate? (e.g. you’ve selected the rate algorithm for the reacting node, but have not send an OLR?)

SRD> There is a possible implementation that assumes the rate for each reacting node is calculated by dividing the number of active nodes by the maximum rate.  With this implementation the OCS would not require storing the rate.  I did see an error in that paragraph, and as such, I've changed that paragraph to the following:

The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to the reacting note.

Old text:

   The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to each reacting note.

New text:

   The rate OCS entery SHOULD include the rate allocated to the reacting note.



 
§5.4, paragraph 1:
 
Discussion indicated that the intent of this paragraph was the reacting node keeps OCS for each server than indicated support for the rate algorithm. But I don’t see text that says when the reacting note needs to actually create the state entry. I think the answer is “immediately when a reporting node indicates support”, right?

SRD> This is covered by the following paragraph from RFC7683:

   If the received OLR is for a new overload condition, then a reacting
   node MUST generate a new OCS entry for the overload condition.


 
§5.6, first two paragraphs:
 
I still think the text talking about using different algorithms needs to say something normative about the characteristics of those algorithms. Janet’s comments indicated the normative text is in §7.3.1. But that’s part of the algorithm that they MAY use, so it would not be constraining against other algorithm choices. Perhaps the 2nd paragraph should be normative?

SRD> How about the following change in paragraph 2:

Old text:

      Note: Other algorithms for controlling the rate can be implemented
      by the reacting node as long as they result in the correct rate of
      traffic being sent to the reporting node.

New text:

   Other algorithms for controlling the rate MAY be implemented
   by the reacting node.  Any algorithm implemented MUST result
   in the correct rate of traffic being sent to the reporting node.


 
§7.2: “ But the resulting request rate presented to the overloaded reporting node will converge towards the target Diameter request rate.”
 
Wasn’t there discussion to change this to “... the target Diameter request rate or a lower rate”?

SRD> Agreed, change made.


 
§7.3: "In situations where reacting nodes are configured with some knowledge
   about the reporting node (e.g., operator pre-provisioning), it can be
   beneficial to choose a value of TAU based on how many reacting nodes
   will be sending requests to the reporting node.”
 
I previously commented that this requires knowledge of other traffic sources, not just the reporting node. I did not see a response.

SRD> I don't understand the issue.  I'm hoping Eric can comment or you can clarify.


 
Editorial Comments:
 
[I note a number of editorial comments that fell into the “made changes unless indicated otherwise” category did not seem to get changed. I included those here again.]

SRD> My apologies if I missed these in the last refresh.


 
- There are still things reported by IDNits that need checking. Some are obviously noise, but some appear to be real. (Line length, references in abstract, and references to RFC 5226)

SRD> There were no issues reported by IDNits when I submitted the document.  Is there a different IDnits check than the one used when submitting drafts?


 
- Was there a reason not to use the RFC 8174 boilerplate in the “Requirements” section? (I thought you had intended to do so.)

SRD> Yes, this slipped through the cracks.  Change made.


 
§1:
- first paragraph: There were some editorial fixes that I thought were agreed that did not appear in the new version:
s/“protect the stability”/“ensure the stability”

SRD> Change made


s/“subjected with”/“subjected to”

SRD> Change made


(new comment): In the new last sentence, is there a reason for the all-caps? That’s normally reserved for normative keywords.

SRD> I don't remember.  I've changed it to all lower.


 
§4:
- first paragraph: Please consider active voice in the last sentence,

SRD> Old text:

   This document defines the rate abatement algorithm (referred to as
   rate in this document) feature.  Support for the rate feature by a
   DOIC node will be indicated by a new value of the OC-Feature-Vector
   AVP, as described in Section 6.1.1, per the rules defined in
   [RFC7683].

New Text:

   This document defines the rate abatement algorithm (referred to as
   rate in this document) feature.  A DOIC node indicates support for the
   rate feature by indicating a new value of the OC-Feature-Vector
   AVP, as described in Section 6.1.1, per the rules defined in
   [RFC7683].


 
§5.1:
- New 5th paragraph:
s/entery/entry

SRD> Change made.


 
§7.1, 2nd paragraph: “ signal one another support for rate-based overload
  control”: This seems awkward; are there missing words? Perhaps there should be something like “their” or “that they” between “another” and “support”?

SRD> Changed from:

   Following the procedures defined in [RFC7683], the reacting node and
   reporting node signal one another support for rate-based overload
   control.

To:

   Following the procedures defined in [RFC7683], the reacting node and
   reporting node signal their support for rate-based overload
   control.


 
§7.2, last two paragraphs: The MUSTs do not seem necessary. 2119 keywords should be used when there is some sort of choice or room for error. You don’t need them to define the basic operation of the protocol.

SRD> I'm okay with removing the MUSTs.  Here the proposed change:

Old:

   Upon detection of overload, and the determination to invoke overload
   controls, the reporting node MUST follow the specifications in
   [RFC7683] to notify its clients of the allocated target maximum
   Diameter request rate and to notify them that the rate overload
   abatement is in effect.

   The reporting node MUST use the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP defined in this
   specification to communicate a target maximum Diameter request rate
   to each of its clients.

New:

   Upon detection of overload, and the determination to invoke overload
   controls, the reporting node follows the specifications in
   [RFC7683] to notify its clients of the allocated target maximum
   Diameter request rate and to notify them that the rate overload
   abatement is in effect.

   The reporting node uses the OC-Maximum-Rate AVP defined in this
   specification to communicate a target maximum Diameter request rate
   to each of its clients.


 
§7.3.1: I found the text hard to follow. It would help to declare all the identifiers and initialization up front, and to present things in more of a stepwise fashion.
 
- T is effectively a time interval, right? It would help to say that, especially later when you subtract a different time interval from it.

SRD> I'll leave this for Eric to handle.


 
- paragraph 9: Should “admit” be “emit”?
 
- the example code has several mentions of SIP requests.

SRD> These have been changed to Diameter requests


 
§7.3.2:
 
- “ Request candidates for reduction, requests not subject to reduction (except under extenuating circumstances when there aren’t any messages in the first category that can be reduced).”:
 
That seems like an awkward way to say that the second category is the set of requests that is only subject to reduction if there are no messages left in the first category.
 
- “ This can be generalized to n priorities using n thresholds for n>2 in the obvious way.”: I suggest you refrain from calling it “obvious”.
 
§7.3.3: Paragraph starting with “ Then (only) if the arrival is admitted, increase the bucket by an amount…”: I think you increase the bucket _count_, right?

SRD> I'll leave these for Eric to handle. 

 
 
On Sep 10, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Steve Donovan <srdonovan@usdonovans.com> wrote:
 
I've posted a new version of the rate draft.
 
I've attached the diff file.
 
Regards,
 
Steve
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--------------8C79399E49C4538FA013F871-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 11:41:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietf.org Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89221292F1; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 11:41:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dime@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.85.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dime@ietf.org Message-ID: <153859208964.9014.11466148270131521168@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 11:41:29 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dime] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10.txt X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 18:41:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Diameter Maintenance and Extensions WG of the IETF. Title : Diameter Overload Rate Control Authors : Steve Donovan Eric Noel Filename : draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2018-10-03 Abstract: This specification documents an extension to the Diameter Overload Indication Conveyance (DOIC) [RFC7683] base solution. This extension adds a new overload control abatement algorithm. This abatement algorithm allows for a DOIC reporting node to specify a maximum rate at which a DOIC reacting node sends Diameter requests to the DOIC reporting node. Requirements The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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22 Oct 2018 01:47:53 -0700 Subject: [Dime] Question regarding RFC 6733 on transport end disconnections X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:50:07 -0000 --_000_AM4PR07MB33135B773985A79741E8D2CCD1F80AM4PR07MB3313eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVsbG8sDQoNCldlIGFyZSB3b3JraW5nIGluIGEgcHJvZHVjdCB3aGljaCB1c2VzIGFuIGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9uIG9mIGEgZGlhbWV0ZXIgc3RhY2sgYmFzZWQgb24gUkZDIDY3MzMuDQpXZSByZWNl bnRseSBoYWQgYSBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucyB3aXRoIHRoZSBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBzdGFjayBh bmQgYWZ0ZXIgc29tZSB0aG91Z2h0cyBhbmQgcG9zdCBhbmFseXNpcyBvZiB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lv biwgd2UgcGVyc29uYWxseSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGNvdWxkIGJlIGR1ZSB0byBhbiBvcGVuIGludGVy cHJldGF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBSRkMgcmVnYXJkaW5nIERQUiBtZXNzYWdlcyBhbmQgaG93IGEgc3Rh 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[85.233.245.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644D2130F7F for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 07:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i1.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i1.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9C01A400CB for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:01:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from isjsys.localnet (unknown [10.0.0.2]) by i1.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:01:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Ivan Skytte =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgensen?= To: dime@ietf.org Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:01:17 +0200 Message-ID: <2055975.PXQd7Ydikz@isjsys> User-Agent: KMail/4.11.5 (Linux/3.11.10-29-desktop; KDE/4.11.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dime] Question regarding RFC 6733 on transport end disconnections X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 14:01:52 -0000 On Thursday 18 October 2018 15:56:52 Miguel Rodriguez Caudevilla wrote: > > We have a cluster wide distributed stack. The diameter instances in the cluster can be administratively be locked, which in consequence ends a transport end connection with a peer. [...] > The stack implementers have a different argument. The administrative lock of a single diameter instance, they consider that it is performed in a way that all the services on cluster level are available. So, it would be quite strange to indicate the peer disconnect-case REBOOTING for the loss of a single node considering we can still provide diameter service through all the other nodes in the cluster. So, the loss of a node (and connections handled by it) is a transient fault that is easily handled if the peer reconnects. They consider that this way the peer reconnects as quickly as possible in such cases. That the stack can achieve this according to the standard as well if it does not send any DPR with connection loss reasons. > > A given Diameter instance of the peer state machine MUST NOT use more than one transport connection to communicate with a given peer, unless multiple instances exist on the peer, in which, case a separate connection per process is allowed. > > And consider that a diameter disconnect cause (eg: REBOOTING or whatever else) sent by a diameter node to a peer actually reflects the overall state of the sending node. Since we have a cluster wide distributed implementation it would be not correct to send a disconnect case REBOOTING as that indicates the whole node is going to be rebooted. We just perform some node level operations while still providing full service to diameter peers. > > We would like to have your point of view regarding this discussion. > Is this intentionally left open for the stack implementation? > Did we interpret something wrong? The RFCs can be confusing/convoluted in this area. But re-read section 1.2: "Diameter Node A Diameter node is a host process that implements the Diameter protocol and acts as either a client, an agent, or a server." and combine with section 4.3.1: "If multiple Diameter nodes run on the same host, each Diameter node MUST be assigned a unique DiameterIdentity." combine with section 5.6.1: "Upon receipt of a CER, the identity of the connecting peer can be uniquely determined from the Origin-Host." Don't be fooled by the "host" part of "origin-host". The payload ia a diameter identity. The AVP was named before anyone thought of these problems. Then you can deduce that a diameter node is an entity (that being a process, thread, task, fiber, machine, vm, ...) that: - has an identity, which is unique and used as the host identity (which is actually a node identity) - has a state machine and therefore: - has at most one transport connection per peer. For simple setups those distinctions aren't that important but when you have a cluster of cooperating nodes with shared state they are. If you have such a cluster of nodes then you cannot have them all have the same host-identity because identities must be unique and if you somehow manage to get two transport connections to a peer using the same host-identity then the peer must close one of them (as per election process). What you can do is that each node (vm/process/thread/whatever) has a unique identity: * node1.example.com * node2.example.com * node3.example.com * node4.example.com ... and the messages (Eg. CCR/EAP/UD... but not CER/DPR) use a common identity in origin-host. * system.example.com So if node1 sends a eg. CCR to a peer it will have: * origin-host: system.example.com * route-record: node1.example.com The peer will simply treat node1 as an intermediate proxy. Nothing special. And your problem with node lock / reboots becomes trivial - just send a DPR with whatever-reason and the peer will only treat it as a message from node1 and only concerning node1. The only drawback I can think of is that there might be some non-compliant peers that don't support proxies. But back in 2013/2014 when I tested such cluster setups I didn't encounter any peers that were non-compliant in this area. Regards, Ivan From Silvia.Villa@italtel.com Fri Oct 26 05:44:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AEE130DCB for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:44:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id omPhgqtsaj64 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.italtel.it (ns.italtel.it [138.132.53.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77E97130DC0 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.italtel.it (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 35253149B7C for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exconn00speak.corp.dom (unknown [138.132.89.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ns.italtel.it (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2179E149BD0 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ITMI01VW365.corp.dom (138.132.89.65) by ITMI01VW370.corp.dom (138.132.89.75) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:44:01 +0200 Received: from ITMI01VW365.corp.dom ([fe80::d9c:90b0:d9c1:dd97]) by ITMI01VW365.corp.dom ([fe80::d9c:90b0:d9c1:dd97%17]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:44:07 +0200 From: Villa Silvia To: "dime@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis Thread-Index: AdRtKULzgui1lYo6RmurApMnh888nw== Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:44:07 +0000 Message-ID: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [138.132.89.225] x-puremessage: [Scanned] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434italtelcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:47:18 -0700 Subject: [Dime] Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:46:06 -0000 --_000_9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434italtelcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Diameter experts and funs, I have a question on the interpretation of RFC 6733. I have a Client Diameter that opens many Diameter Connections with differen= t Origin-Hosts and the same Origin-Realm. The Client need to send AAR in session with maintained state to a Server. Where a Diameter Server will send requests in session such as RAR or ASR? The Destination-Host-AVP must be valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the AAR= sent by the client or a different Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by re= alm? What would happen if the diameter connection will fell and lost? The Diameter Server must/can/cannot choose to send the request to a differe= nt Destination-Host-AVP of the same Client Realm? I cannot understand where is the limit between protocol rules and custom po= licy local develop solution. Thank you. Silvia Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con le = informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivolta= unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa aut= orizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvisa= ti che qualsiasi azione, copia, comunicazione, divulgazione o simili basate= sul contenuto di tali informazioni e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro la = legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P., D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Rego= lamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazione p= er errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di distrug= gere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alcuna o= riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l'i= nformativa Privacy: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-mail= and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and are confide= ntial and/or may contain legally privileged information. If you have receiv= ed this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees above, you may = take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it to anyone; plea= se reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has occurred. Click h= ere to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ --_000_9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434italtelcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Diameter experts and funs= ,

 

I have a question on the interp= retation of RFC 6733.

 

I have a Client Diameter that o= pens many Diameter Connections with different Origin-Hosts and the same Ori= gin-Realm.

The Client need to send AAR in = session with maintained state to a Server.

 

Where a Diameter Server will se= nd requests in session such as RAR or ASR?

 

The Destination-Host-AVP must b= e valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the AAR sent by the client or a differ= ent Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by realm?

 

What would happen if the diamet= er connection will fell and lost?

The Diameter Server must/can/ca= nnot choose to send the request to a different Destination-Host-AVP of the = same Client Realm?

 

I cannot understand where is th= e limit between protocol rules and custom policy local develop solution.

 

Thank you.

 

Silvia

 

Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con le = informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivolta= unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa aut= orizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvisati che qualsiasi azione, copia, comu= nicazione, divulgazione o simili basate sul contenuto di tali informazioni = e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro la legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P.,= D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Regolamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazi= one per errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di di= struggere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alc= una o riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l'informativa Privacy: http://w= ww.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-mail and its attachments are int= ended for the addressee(s) only and are confidential and/or may contain leg= ally privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees= above, you may take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it= to anyone; please reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has o= ccurred. Click here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ --_000_9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434italtelcom_-- From nobody Sun Oct 28 05:06:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DDC128CFD for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 05:06:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nu3jtoNbIb1K for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 05:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic310-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic310-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.135.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57138128CE4 for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 05:06:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1540728409; bh=/PkwFnpiOWXYI9IE3IwbpOIQrBkLOWcasE45nrXnu1U=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=ahTzXqErmXX+cIWK+NveBygFm8XLkBab4iiHhuWGyixSYkhJhZFWy6BJMnbd8GrPj7ja3Mr0TmizRvEupCTsPXZLEC9lA3kwU8bKW/1rarhbNq820QI8sXLtwZkCGa2gRLwqhzoAW7D1oOUMDV4f5DcGPt6pYVgqbWjHoYgJK02vxliNX913fGjpiM3rnHTxvTj2RuWXHtjnwjK0z+IlstfTzlJX0MfcOV9LVvY2u4ULd7Uwy0p3rB1tog1dMd+uz8Z6lGSw4nIsX6hUbmCBV1PGcPJOoHzpX5rnG27bfSZ60nA3A3kGFfubWoYJ81UH7Ruo2UwqE4dYVshmkMb13A== X-YMail-OSG: snGHmCgVM1lNT6zbd4DRT0MRTwt03hrzBeH7xAgVd2UzLGFRyyQD77CvWOfd_x3 bhI1MWHGme_91n.a0tqm0uQik1sV4fgOQd6HklwyINV9Lb2rc24xnyeEhNdMZGTovPBawqUV1t9h nm.CtIKjcIbeYgeYXiDpPtDvWQqk__jU9JXNYj6FPlo8yRL8uv4B8Bgz0AfW9V1F_bxXeucFh8zn fnLNWEMpbNeRgdS3e9N6Sh5BidFLvUWdxhRmAB.oWJDh.PQ.JvU4Zv0odS569ifsxdLFSGXMs_l7 PxRwV1XkKaavF0.4KBH_h3XvgbgHhnMZaXSc4Jok.hCc_oEWD7bfJGxEdjZzSahZ.xrQGjmNxII4 FN_pE2MOxQ9NbwO8_KkS8LWF1U.YtEy6iSe1Z9IEC59o6FN.cL82zlgk5NK4NCEtKm7uV.IfFuo1 FvXLtejpuCJW1aG4YyQ4mCI5OuTd5D7YmPlA7uGdPxHEWR1rg5pSfoDS0Jl.bEPRDV5p7rZrGrQC 0BvyJIn1rTR7iFxg3pnIQsFfCmkCx_u3mamKQVi0HpenkN_5j8kzOhJkd2uKj1eRk1rpFG5R55tJ My8LmraWB3lRpJCR0jfhCr809WlPqINmxBgdXTegGf_MOQBugRd7bb5vjefI7IyZoFRUcTOpVoq8 J9OPCU7B4CRT6wWiIEPNxG7Kc4LTPqi9.sbZ22gI3M7LbfwZpnQNMCXVwJOZTKr.O255GqR19xVJ _omQ.L1bilVPAr5bR5Cj0DeIpiESPyXe1B0R4lm97XuZu2t1s.yYRPUm0FErSf.9ynRuogleAoNg AlQyViSAo8oi7qhXuKJ9CM8TcQTdyGBNjHGC5dB3gG79hBC8t0YPCAo8rAL4VvfjjLqDPwCRZ9Ko ugXvtoPSl9CNMpxaWZeDO30HHZh7nPWPJkcQSlFtnbyEX2S5yzclR6or6IQtRxdJzdn5pzAL2suZ HjmEacwzGgINhV0Nhq40TZps.HnZNii6s7DZD1DI.mO_r6qlh.QaswJn3vm4eoNsYlbhwMKTOwwr mc1iK Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:06:49 +0000 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:06:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Yuval Lifshitz To: "dime@ietf.org" , Villa Silvia Message-ID: <1783796887.17665942.1540728405641@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> References: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17665941_437119187.1540728405638" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12512 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Fedora; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/66.0.3359.117 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dime] Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:06:53 -0000 ------=_Part_17665941_437119187.1540728405638 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Silvia,The server is expected to send the RAR to the same host from = which the session was initialized (i.e the Destination-Host of the RAR shou= ld be the same as the Origin-Host of the AAR). There is no requirement, however, to send the RAR on the same Diameter conn= ection that was used to send the AAR. For example, if there was a connectiv= ity issue with the client after the AAR was sent, that was resolved (client= reconnected wit the same Diameter identity), and then the server want to s= end the RAR, it should be allowed to send it over the new connection to the= same client (with the correct Destination-Host). Another case is where the client is not directly connected to the server (i= .e. a Diameter agent sits between them). In such a case the server may use = "realm routing" and send the RAR on any Diameter connection that may reach = the desired realm. However, even in this case, the Destination-Host of the = RAR must be set to the correct Destination-Host, and it is up to the Diamet= er agent(s) to route the request to the correct client. Hope this helps, Yuval On Friday, October 26, 2018, 3:47:26 p.m. GMT+3, Villa Silvia wrote: =20 =20 Hello Diameter experts and funs, =20 =C2=A0 =20 I have a question on the interpretation of RFC 6733. =20 =C2=A0 =20 I have a Client Diameter that opens many Diameter Connections with differen= t Origin-Hosts and the same Origin-Realm. =20 The Client need to send AAR in session with maintained state to a Server. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Where a Diameter Server will send requests in session such as RAR or ASR? =20 =C2=A0 =20 The Destination-Host-AVP must be valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the AAR= sent by the client or a different Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by re= alm? =20 =C2=A0 =20 What would happen if the diameter connection will fell and lost? =20 The Diameter Server must/can/cannot choose to send the request to a differe= nt Destination-Host-AVP of the same Client Realm? =20 =C2=A0 =20 I cannot understand where is the limit between protocol rules and custom po= licy local develop solution. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Thank you. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Silvia =20 =C2=A0 Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con le= informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivolt= a unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa au= torizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvis= ati che qualsiasi azione, copia, comunicazione, divulgazione o simili basat= e sul contenuto di tali informazioni e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro la= legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P., D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Reg= olamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazione = per errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di distru= ggere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alcuna = o riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l'= informativa Privacy: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-mai= l and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and are confid= ential and/or may contain legally privileged information. If you have recei= ved this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees above, you may= take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it to anyone; ple= ase reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has occurred. Click = here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/_= ______________________________________________ DiME mailing list DiME@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime =20 ------=_Part_17665941_437119187.1540728405638 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Silvia,
The server is expected to send the RAR= to the same host from which the session was initialized (i.e the Destinati= on-Host of the RAR should be the same as the Origin-Host of the AAR).
=

There is no requirement, however, to send the RAR on th= e same Diameter connection that was used to send the AAR. For example, if t= here was a connectivity issue with the client after the AAR was sent, that = was resolved (client reconnected wit the same Diameter identity), and then = the server want to send the RAR, it should be allowed to send it over the n= ew connection to the same client (with the correct Destination-Host).
=

Another case is where the client is not directly connec= ted to the server (i.e. a Diameter agent sits between them). In such a case= the server may use "realm routing" and send the RAR on any Diameter connec= tion that may reach the desired realm. However, even in this case, the Dest= ination-Host of the RAR must be set to the correct Destination-Host, and it= is up to the Diameter agent(s) to route the request to the correct client.=

Hope this helps,

Yuval

=20
=20
On Friday, October 26, 2018, 3:47:26 p.m. GMT+3, Villa = Silvia <Silvia.Villa@italtel.com> wrote:


=20 =20

Hello Diameter exp= erts and funs,

=20

 

= =20

I have a question = on the interpretation of RFC 6733.

=20

 

= =20

I have a Client Di= ameter that opens many Diameter Connections with different Origin-Hosts and= the same Origin-Realm.

=20

The Client need to= send AAR in session with maintained state to a Server.

=20

 

= =20

Where a Diameter S= erver will send requests in session such as RAR or ASR?

=20

 

= =20

The Destination-Ho= st-AVP must be valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the AAR sent by the clien= t or a different Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by realm?

=20

 

= =20

What would happen = if the diameter connection will fell and lost?

=20

The Diameter Serve= r must/can/cannot choose to send the request to a different Destination-Hos= t-AVP of the same Client Realm?

=20

 

= =20

I cannot understan= d where is the limit between protocol rules and custom policy local develop= solution.

=20

 

= =20

Thank you.

=20

 

=20

Silvia

=20

 

=20
Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con le = informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivolta= unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa aut= orizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvisati che qualsiasi azione, copia, comu= nicazione, divulgazione o simili basate sul contenuto di tali informazioni = e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro la legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P.,= D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Regolamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazi= one per errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di di= struggere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alc= una o riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l'informativa Privacy: http://w= ww.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-mail and its attachments are int= ended for the addressee(s) only and are confidential and/or may contain leg= ally privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees= above, you may take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it= to anyone; please reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has o= ccurred. Click here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/
_______________________________________________
DiME mailing list<= br>DiME@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime
------=_Part_17665941_437119187.1540728405638-- From nobody Mon Oct 29 09:23:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4D013107A for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 09:23:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eiuGFiugrxqZ for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 09:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.italtel.it (ns.italtel.it [138.132.53.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9B83131067 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 09:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.italtel.it (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A82C14A2E0; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:23:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from exconn00speak.corp.dom (unknown [138.132.89.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ns.italtel.it (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31B3814A2D3; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:23:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from ITMI01VW365.corp.dom (2002:8a84:5941::8a84:5941) by ITMI01VW365.corp.dom (2002:8a84:5941::8a84:5941) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:23:02 +0100 Received: from ITMI01VW365.corp.dom ([fe80::d9c:90b0:d9c1:dd97]) by ITMI01VW365.corp.dom ([fe80::d9c:90b0:d9c1:dd97%17]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:23:02 +0100 From: Villa Silvia To: Yuval Lifshitz , "dime@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dime] Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis Thread-Index: AdRtKULzgui1lYo6RmurApMnh888nwBhQ1KAAD1AVPA= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 16:23:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> <1783796887.17665942.1540728405641@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1783796887.17665942.1540728405641@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [138.132.89.225] x-puremessage: [Scanned] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ec1221a4f2c6434b93f7bdb3600953aaitaltelcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dime] R: Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 16:23:15 -0000 --_000_ec1221a4f2c6434b93f7bdb3600953aaitaltelcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dime] R: Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 16:40:44 -0000 --_000_79e3414ea75a40e5864c40176c1479bbitaltelcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QSBuZXcgcmVxdWVzdCBpbiBsaW5lDQoNCkRhOiBZdXZhbCBMaWZzaGl0eiBbbWFpbHRvOnl1dmFs aWZAeWFob28uY29tXQ0KSW52aWF0bzogZG9tZW5pY2EgMjggb3R0b2JyZSAyMDE4IDEzOjA3DQpB OiBkaW1lQGlldGYub3JnOyBWaWxsYSBTaWx2aWEgPFNpbHZpYS5WaWxsYUBpdGFsdGVsLmNvbT4N Ck9nZ2V0dG86IFJlOiBbRGltZV0gTWFpbCByZWdhcmRpbmcgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kaW1lLXJmYzM1 ODhiaXMNCg0KSGVsbG8gU2lsdmlhLA0KVGhlIHNlcnZlciBpcyBleHBlY3RlZCB0byBzZW5kIHRo ZSBSQVIgdG8gdGhlIHNhbWUgaG9zdCBmcm9tIHdoaWNoIHRoZSBzZXNzaW9uIHdhcyBpbml0aWFs 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<20181031075955.GA11356@dhcp-0-211.tlv.redhat.com> References: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> <1783796887.17665942.1540728405641@mail.yahoo.com> <79e3414ea75a40e5864c40176c1479bb@italtel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <79e3414ea75a40e5864c40176c1479bb@italtel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dime] R: Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:01:16 -0000 inline On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 04:40:37PM +0000, Villa Silvia wrote: > A new request in line >=20 > Da: Yuval Lifshitz [mailto:yuvalif@yahoo.com] > Inviato: domenica 28 ottobre 2018 13:07 > A: dime@ietf.org; Villa Silvia > Oggetto: Re: [Dime] Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis >=20 > Hello Silvia, > The server is expected to send the RAR to the same host from which the se= ssion was initialized (i.e the Destination-Host of the RAR should be the sa= me as the Origin-Host of the AAR). >=20 > There is no requirement, however, to send the RAR on the same Diameter co= nnection that was used to send the AAR. For example, if there was a connect= ivity issue with the client after the AAR was sent, that was resolved (clie= nt reconnected wit the same Diameter identity), and then the server want to= send the RAR, it should be allowed to send it over the new connection to t= he same client (with the correct Destination-Host). >=20 > Another case is where the client is not directly connected to the server = (i.e. a Diameter agent sits between them). In such a case the server may us= e "realm routing" and send the RAR on any Diameter connection that may reac= h the desired realm. However, even in this case, the Destination-Host of th= e RAR must be set to the correct Destination-Host, and it is up to the Diam= eter agent(s) to route the request to the correct client. >=20 > [SILVIA] I would like to check if I understood this last sentence well. > In this last case where there is an agent between server and client.. > The server can select a different routing street by =E2=80=9Crealm routin= g=E2=80=9D so that server can send the RAR or ASR to a different diameter a= gent peer (compared to that used for the AAR). > However, server must anyway insert in this RAR the specific Destination-H= ost-AVP that must be the same as the Origin-Host of the AAR. > So that the new diameter agent peer will deliver the RAR always to the sa= me =E2=80=9CClient Origin-Host and Connection=E2=80=9D. > It is correct? > I'm sorry if I ask you again but I do not know if I understood the second= case correctly > Thank you very much. > Silvia >=20 [yuval] yes, your understanding is correct >=20 >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > Yuval >=20 > On Friday, October 26, 2018, 3:47:26 p.m. GMT+3, Villa Silvia > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Diameter experts and funs, >=20 >=20 >=20 > I have a question on the interpretation of RFC 6733. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I have a Client Diameter that opens many Diameter Connections with differ= ent Origin-Hosts and the same Origin-Realm. >=20 > The Client need to send AAR in session with maintained state to a Server. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Where a Diameter Server will send requests in session such as RAR or ASR? >=20 >=20 >=20 > The Destination-Host-AVP must be valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the A= AR sent by the client or a different Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by = realm? >=20 >=20 >=20 > What would happen if the diameter connection will fell and lost? >=20 > The Diameter Server must/can/cannot choose to send the request to a diffe= rent Destination-Host-AVP of the same Client Realm? >=20 >=20 >=20 > I cannot understand where is the limit between protocol rules and custom = policy local develop solution. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Silvia >=20 >=20 > Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con l= e informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivol= ta unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa a= utorizzata/e a riceverla. 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If you have rece= ived this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees above, you ma= y take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it to anyone; pl= ease reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has occurred. Click= here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ > _______________________________________________ > DiME mailing list > DiME@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con l= e informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivol= ta unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa a= utorizzata/e a riceverla. 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Click= here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ From nobody Wed Oct 31 01:20:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDCF130DED for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClfOHHa0xHCf for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic315-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE1EE130DEB for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 01:20:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1540974052; bh=H3igYe3EdKeS+FpV119JeABSUck6jNrWguTFItMf8/o=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=G6cQzTj58IF7LsThHQkKj6aYskc5NcCDU/FRT1fe2hT4O1dftflMsvm4W6ezDRU4T802LPefxwUspUwf4exD+6GTKXXm8MNN/6nSqpDLwVgeHRXA2WryzMKFiB77YGwx/+EKa5phTS0clxD5X2GK3BhOikbO1aAh4+VHnst/QJM1HAHxXay40ZHeIEnjZOKwMHBv993Vzk8qLHAWMuShjke/Nr8R1ZvXSZrjUxgUM+87tJ4LVbyjIJi6BSfZfY1iEnFw2fG16aDjXd1dU12FgBpMVsP7q6TM2RIEUGGd1+iDOxZMRBy1t8f5c15Wi+azit95ka5r51kQmECdrUtbUA== X-YMail-OSG: 571XO64VM1nWAiExjfp6KLy.G3xnxFdnn5fvmXR0GcWVoPdsVWlv6gTQaSJNRC7 IiP3Y_GMwIKO3kdyiUPCwaXF9DW7L7ZXjlBPSX1ObFcT1QQ6OwTULmZyPgQQNn.4L3canjYuBAGJ fwPZDz5cgL_1CAxWTB2sjG2QGnuAANtwi6wNrKmMuh2W172Olz7Lwg.UromOfe3wanZVfOd4R3zM ELHbj07JCentZEAVE7nRm.OAlLorJeGlTK6jTgvlqnmjj4Qc6Y8PcxV.4zcGqy1UsdLWUOzUlhn4 v6ol2tfy90A63uXGIe8B0U3._jRHKqAKT92uc7o5YVmsuqZm7_HxD.lNrqcaVFrQKcqQMpvYqXLp QSxQr_JnSI38kGTZJKIhE0PGm6SaAsXGNvcigsyHH1uoQh2xm3AmyX2CE6O10mF9owLiTAlUcWW5 BoOpsV3Flof14kHHPdSXdBce1.bqeOwkexDIy3qy3aVtt98amPWnAD.fddnsachXI2wJGHTqg6iv YDx3pu34Xy9ZIU7ewVISprNPiyGIFiZzGkQKQeF9yP826imKCNQkq5pG2LVy_ZIIsxu5gw_Boaex 1Y81h1VwWWUaU8Fc._qxukYnhCqLobtZ4B.u1y3AOBOd.Tjqi1aLK9OXXGp_dnr4cnz2YHqtl664 Sxb1AMcSCUNB81zgpKSRuW.g8W7Ku8W19iGQpidNC2I7nIxYqeWMZJwlDYlWV5wFKiUPQFT6OFmF yhAvEbhXSyRaitGe88c3RsBZB.4U2G5xSZbsxawhKeOTna4bafYUdZDuhZfeI6tSTI6WrpwMQ7bi q4xOuoRx6gbLWkQxPZl04x.a3EAHd4rn.HbJagf5_rcxmER8Vye3dMZ6iuJZLLdC6e1a.s6ycRsZ p3.mVmaV8JSX7knaSbvkNLYEwfC0LWsP7afU8kNobrPJ2POqDQThtafZbv5yK_H.fc1QVEdzok8K wQWCEyrbaoPBkLaogUZ7qKVv3UFlbyAzz5ShHi0zdtYFJfZwpGLkjHI_FDYHCe_a2hZNSaCE_71_ RXsAk4438oCNnp_qdTgzYmbFB.Lm2n5w- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:20:52 +0000 Received: from bzq-82-81-161-50.red.bezeqint.net (EHLO dhcp-0-211.tlv.redhat.com) ([82.81.161.50]) by smtp408.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2df02e61759bd04dbdf6265138e15e7d; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 10:20:48 +0200 From: Yuval Lifshitz To: Villa Silvia Cc: "dime@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181031082048.GA12198@dhcp-0-211.tlv.redhat.com> References: <9483df2e03b04080a857b3bee987f434@italtel.com> <1783796887.17665942.1540728405641@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dime] R: Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis X-BeenThere: dime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Diameter Maintanence and Extentions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:20:56 -0000 While it may be that some servers will allow that (folowing the "Robustness= Principle"), the client should not do that. Note that even in the case that the server don't mind the change in Origin-= Host, it is most likely because it ignores it, and will not update the valu= e - either way, this is server specific implementation and not part of the = spec. If the client just reconnected to the server, than the Diameter session sho= uld just continue, using the original parameters (including Origin-Host). If the client went down, and a different client took over, than the client = is either expected to start a new session (the common case where the client= is stateless) whith a new Origin-Host, or to continue the same session (if= the client is stateful) with the old Origin-Host. Yuval On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 04:23:02PM +0000, Villa Silvia wrote: > Thank you very much for your answer Yuval. >=20 > Do you think that is allowed to a Diameter Client sending a subsequent AA= R for a Session by a different Origin-Host? > What do you think server will do? >=20 > Let me clarify... >=20 > I have this Diameter Client that opens many Diameter Connections with dif= ferent Origin-Hosts and the same Origin-Realm. >=20 > Suppose that the Client sends an AAR for a new Session by Diameter-Connec= tion-1 and Origin-Host-1. > Suppose that the Diameter-Connection-1 will fell and lost. > It shall be permissible for the Client to send subsequent re-auth for the= same Session-Id by a Diameter-Connection-2 and Origin-Host-2? > The Server is required to update the Destination-Host associated to the S= ession-Id (like Target Refresh Requests in SIP dialogs)? > And so all subsequent RAR or ASR will be sent by Server to the Diameter-C= onnection-2 and Destination-Host-2. >=20 > Thank you again, Yuval. >=20 > Silvia >=20 >=20 > Da: Yuval Lifshitz [mailto:yuvalif@yahoo.com] > Inviato: domenica 28 ottobre 2018 13:07 > A: dime@ietf.org; Villa Silvia > Oggetto: Re: [Dime] Mail regarding draft-ietf-dime-rfc3588bis >=20 > Hello Silvia, > The server is expected to send the RAR to the same host from which the se= ssion was initialized (i.e the Destination-Host of the RAR should be the sa= me as the Origin-Host of the AAR). >=20 > There is no requirement, however, to send the RAR on the same Diameter co= nnection that was used to send the AAR. For example, if there was a connect= ivity issue with the client after the AAR was sent, that was resolved (clie= nt reconnected wit the same Diameter identity), and then the server want to= send the RAR, it should be allowed to send it over the new connection to t= he same client (with the correct Destination-Host). >=20 > Another case is where the client is not directly connected to the server = (i.e. a Diameter agent sits between them). In such a case the server may us= e "realm routing" and send the RAR on any Diameter connection that may reac= h the desired realm. However, even in this case, the Destination-Host of th= e RAR must be set to the correct Destination-Host, and it is up to the Diam= eter agent(s) to route the request to the correct client. >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > Yuval >=20 > On Friday, October 26, 2018, 3:47:26 p.m. GMT+3, Villa Silvia > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Diameter experts and funs, >=20 >=20 >=20 > I have a question on the interpretation of RFC 6733. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I have a Client Diameter that opens many Diameter Connections with differ= ent Origin-Hosts and the same Origin-Realm. >=20 > The Client need to send AAR in session with maintained state to a Server. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Where a Diameter Server will send requests in session such as RAR or ASR? >=20 >=20 >=20 > The Destination-Host-AVP must be valued with the Origin-Host-AVP of the A= AR sent by the client or a different Destination-Host-AVP can be chosen by = realm? >=20 >=20 >=20 > What would happen if the diameter connection will fell and lost? >=20 > The Diameter Server must/can/cannot choose to send the request to a diffe= rent Destination-Host-AVP of the same Client Realm? >=20 >=20 >=20 > I cannot understand where is the limit between protocol rules and custom = policy local develop solution. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Silvia >=20 >=20 > Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con l= e informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivol= ta unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa a= utorizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvi= sati che qualsiasi azione, copia, comunicazione, divulgazione o simili basa= te sul contenuto di tali informazioni e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro l= a legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P., D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Re= golamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazione= per errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di distr= uggere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alcuna= o riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l= 'informativa Privacy: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-ma= il and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and are confi= dential and/or may contain legally privileged information. If you have rece= ived this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees above, you ma= y take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it to anyone; pl= ease reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has occurred. Click= here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ > _______________________________________________ > DiME mailing list > DiME@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > Internet Email Confidentiality Footer ** La presente comunicazione, con l= e informazioni in essa contenute e ogni documento o file allegato, e' rivol= ta unicamente alla/e persona/e cui e' indirizzata ed alle altre da questa a= utorizzata/e a riceverla. Se non siete i destinatari/autorizzati siete avvi= sati che qualsiasi azione, copia, comunicazione, divulgazione o simili basa= te sul contenuto di tali informazioni e' vietata e potrebbe essere contro l= a legge vigente (ad es. art. 616 C.P., D.Lgs n. 196/2003 Codice Privacy, Re= golamento Europeo n. 679/2016/GDPR). Se avete ricevuto questa comunicazione= per errore, vi preghiamo di darne immediata notizia al mittente e di distr= uggere il messaggio originale e ogni file allegato senza farne copia alcuna= o riprodurne in alcun modo il contenuto. Al link seguente e' disponibile l= 'informativa Privacy: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/ ** This e-ma= il and its attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and are confi= dential and/or may contain legally privileged information. If you have rece= ived this message by mistake or are not one of the addressees above, you ma= y take no action based on it, and you may not copy or show it to anyone; pl= ease reply to this e-mail and point out the error which has occurred. Click= here to read your privacy notice: http://www.italtel.com/it/about/privacy/