From nobody Tue Sep 19 02:01:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C30E126DFE for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 262_zKvnxb7y for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17A1D13208E for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.233] ([82.113.121.134]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lj7Eo-1dOjbO19pO-00dHqW; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 11:01:16 +0200 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: din@irtf.org Cc: "Melinda Shore" Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 11:01:11 +0200 Message-ID: <0E6157A0-1B4F-4D72-B9F3-C7774B920C8D@dkutscher.net> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_A391F23C-6766-4452-8F20-5F85174CB3B2_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Hh6m2zi5zZBPwtJncIwRw97y6TXf+lnqesavmAJZQwbZbS46r2b bJOZG5IuCcTbCBJmYFFokBKyOwLEKmRt8V85m5z3R/zIlAYO51P9xQ7IJXq8sEyCsFgOYV5 LF4X4b1rJes+X9zxSoLmfToaLO3zlS/mtIDzPVpy8B30EJnm9dTscarh3MxkdL2Mkauo8U+ Wnp4exnIjv4xzJb05YZZA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:fhbfEG3e7J8=:8voHIHqUHpMVL6acYFOJIy kZ9BPRc+wxQnhEE7+mzeXVGkmKAgfL9vhANl+1yU5VzHaRUb2JeEh+9bvciZw2z3aUawVJNFb OU8Gb9Qlcrw/Cy1gnHHu+dG5/D+sdVmUmzV+lCuQ4foydbIHRirh+pUnkkP9ISXADHI/t/M3j y5atjNYEvFWGxU9naXp7e7bk2Kl5Ujo5Gfd4QcseaFZGIVpCeYh+OtskxV/PjzQEKvNPOzi0w ScA3RUq4zl+rQxUaZzEWVhpC2BQ6HscSplm93zG4e2oj2tO2KX1LvWYKKcsEPnt6vcWjDvDKI T4ZI4i3UGq+kNraRl9lcGXbu2H4f0mQSmSCxCBggH0KPv+XpROx6vPwzGzmM2xtNTDiEkaomX LXHNXL4SEhNLcZshfVP4La+TnTgccDadYBEUdIWHxX1g+pi3BvIBUpt8cZVF+d5M7go1Jioj1 exwoQPaCTkqfRmK7H+CNM8CR6dMERK3U4/qy5nCFc4xVSDVvMSVUaE5nYEnNzfAPp4qp4kY01 0C4i/yGENMs9QWaTzF1DNEyww2d6g0BDyEy2uAL3ND+GMKiKPYjW2DhDc2h1wU/3l2rEJC4CP TMekwzLQPUlKX6PhBFRgzX0PW7BQsIXvwaQ2BOa0xvov3lPqO7n7PHXInK1Z12+5AqspX+xp8 k7I5s5YLMaqNJ4jrZajW8q/TB7m6GP8xsPlf2XG93ok6VdL6Zi48phhxx1AOb/O+qNUpshUk8 PMOLR+4EB9nrmX/1V9CLu799nUFsiATWjVzNXzUGWoirQmTIa06E53GBPtI= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] Requesting comments on draft DIN charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 09:01:22 -0000 --=_MailMate_A391F23C-6766-4452-8F20-5F85174CB3B2_= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Hi everyone, Thanks for the feedback and suggestions for improving the proposed charter text. We have received input from Lixia Zhang, Eve Schooler, Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Mankin and updated the text accordingly: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation Quick summary of the changes: - highlighted Internet-level deployment criteria (scalability, security, performance) - mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated Computing as one the research challenges - clarified the implementation & deployment objectives in the research challenges Please have a look and let us know if there are other suggestions etc. Also, we talked to Allison and are now aiming to run a meeting as a Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at IETF-100 in Singapore. We are now starting to prepare that meeting. The current plan is to look into selected use cases and experimentation results, but also to discuss RG goals, next steps etc. You are very welcome to reach out to us if you would like to propose something. Best regards, Melinda & Dirk On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Melinda and I drafted a charter for a proposed Research Group on > Decentralized Internet Infrastructure: > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation > > This is based on our discussions in Prague and additional input we > received in the meantime. > > We would be grateful for any feedback. > > Specific questions of interests: > > - Is this useful? > - Anything missing? > - Other suggestions? > - Do you want to contribute? > > Please group-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you see fit. > > Thanks, > Dirk & Melinda > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din --=_MailMate_A391F23C-6766-4452-8F20-5F85174CB3B2_= Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions for improving the= proposed charter text. We have received input from Lixia Zhang, Eve Scho= oler, Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Mankin and updated th= e text accordingly:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation<= /a>

Quick summary of the changes:

  • highlighted Internet-level deployment criteria (scalability, security= , performance)
  • mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated Computing as one the resear= ch challenges
  • clarified the implementation & deployment objectives in the resea= rch challenges

Please have a look and let us know if there are other sug= gestions etc.

Also, we talked to Allison and are now aiming to run a me= eting as a Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at IETF-100 in Sing= apore.

We are now starting to prepare that meeting. The current = plan is to look into selected use cases and experimentation results, but = also to discuss RG goals, next steps etc.

You are very welcome to reach out to us if you would like= to propose something.

Best regards,
Melinda & Dirk

On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher wrote:

Hi everyone,

Melinda and I drafted a charter for a proposed Research G= roup on Decentralized Internet Infrastructure:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation<= /a>

This is based on our discussions in Prague and additional= input we received in the meantime.

We would be grateful for any feedback.

Specific questions of interests:

  • Is this useful?
  • Anything missing?
  • Other suggestions?
  • Do you want to contribute?

Please group-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you se= e fit.

Thanks,
Dirk & Melinda

Din mailing list
Din@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/din

--=_MailMate_A391F23C-6766-4452-8F20-5F85174CB3B2_=-- From nobody Tue Sep 19 05:49:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2D8134310 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:48:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oCTD0zpHd0Ax for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db5eur01on0104.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.2.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E663134323 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.168.57.26) by DB6PR0601MB2438.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.169.213.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.56.11; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 12:46:44 +0000 Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29a6:d86f:ad2:e821]) by DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29a6:d86f:ad2:e821%15]) with mapi id 15.20.0056.016; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 12:46:44 +0000 From: "Diego R. 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multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_27309A00C9CD45CBAF037B3A05782A94telefonicacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Sep 2017 12:46:44.4950 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0601MB2438 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] Requesting comments on draft DIN charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 12:49:00 -0000 --_000_27309A00C9CD45CBAF037B3A05782A94telefonicacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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10:46:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9DD1342B9 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:46:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.318 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r7ODlipZHWfa for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout13.telekom.de (MAILOUT13.telekom.de [80.149.113.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with 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d="xml'?rels'?docx'72,48?scan'72,48,208,217,72,48";a="734903546" Received: from he105789.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.169.118.28]) by Q4DE8PSA04V.blf.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 19 Sep 2017 19:46:16 +0200 Received: from HE105782.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.118.27) by HE105789.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.118.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:46:15 +0200 Received: from HE105782.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::f91e:f234:cb68:6035]) by HE105782.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::f91e:f234:cb68:6035%26]) with mapi id 15.00.1293.002; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:46:15 +0200 From: To: CC: , , , , Thread-Topic: DINRG charter Thread-Index: AdMxbusa4Qm9Qsc8QTKObO+n+41oNg== Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:46:15 +0000 Message-ID: <8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523df@HE105782.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.30.186] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] DINRG charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:46:25 -0000 --_004_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_" --_000_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, please find attached my changes for discussion. Kind regards Axel https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG T-Labs (Research & Innovation) Axel Nennker Winterfeldtstr. 21, 10781 Berlin +491702275312 (Tel.) E-Mail: axel.nennker@telekom.de --_000_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

please find attached my changes= for discussion.

 

Kind regards<= /p>

Axel

 

h= ttps://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation

 

 

 

DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG
T-Labs (Research & Innovation)
Axel Nennker
Winterfeldtstr. 21, 10781 Berlin
+491702275312 (Tel.)

= E-Mail: axel.nennker@telekom.de

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

 

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--_004_8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523dfHE105782emea1cdstintern_-- From nobody Wed Sep 20 02:41:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9AD1342DC for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:41:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jtNA5JK_uwI1 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 690EC133323 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.233] ([89.204.130.84]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MCdZW-1e2oio3i6M-009T2r; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:41:37 +0200 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: Axel.Nennker@telekom.de Cc: din@irtf.org, pdingle@pingidentity.com, melinda.shore@nomountain.net, ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com, phil@windley.org Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:41:28 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523df@HE105782.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <8b9bf4537ca84534adf574796aa523df@HE105782.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_EE9183F5-5B9E-4E83-BEEE-98527F40A937_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[1851, 2849], "plain":[471, 311], "uuid":"4CD57253-D54F-43BD-87CF-82A123EE08C6"}] X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:9KbGu7EpldvxuYad3thUFFBt/VOnZBuhVKwyslwVYJoQRrL0NRD BKSP+eKeGKhprCGcVaiUYyHaYwSnyPbO6F7iY5eoH63ZBCXVQnPuGn91hkidZQEuz9mQ7zo +8Z523y0RO1o07IWmAga0FBvnvjVtOXJvfrcntjKMTV784rHAIzqKlioYSaBUlp29ptFOJJ Yo76wXgn0tkUBx3RuvPBg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:sUM+nncHc4o=:R292mqMo7W7ZUmpe/GK0Vk OWXx8TrUXpuenEKUqUVYerLC76VaiHpN9UjHE0Ot5i+I4Y8+zALcC22qAVl4VhV0+iC/C2kRx hQALZcofWW6Mqlj6hEYl3aEVoNiuHCBHXtrP1dLzCUTeAAsSJqmyY3icEbf6u8Z/kfGZp+Dds gw327IpgSWECaGI8x2gNiN8bvcwUiuf+2SRCIM6ZHb6CVrchTk8vSXWPSeAXo35PevxA1nCqz e9+zWrJipO4GG4fs+DZwdbTRBOoP38mSaGCynjUfUgrVJlKWyeWmm5GYTCT6lbpH46ERQs0q0 LEpKrTBSFJNp6FgyigrV5O5m8hEyqpfuoUIYl4GAyswG8p5GwtJMYN8oNTnkOdqntt+IOl/Xn DWgIbBw3WTG6cicx8NRuzdafO/xfx8ZEQPa7i8ajCDgSgj85wXADY35Ynd84X6rK6VcIRgADG SXsuHTvGOSBXJzJk1hQjk87T2gqyHbSEk8MRDdphnQfGO9w1S99CCa4TfJ7PU1QabH0C4xjZr kyXfhOfdHn7xxNlxogV5cZz3FXvx6v/HSwoINvGMuGwz8fTjslSllGgqGXGsVn8lp5HUZD/jY OOnxBNzXp1JZUs+opHIh0uESLgoYGE3TrGm0AMEPhYoB5AHaOJwvLplCk1s+FlVKU2s7OFtFq Hs2uqy+sKHP0E1xiXkMgc9YkTycG3MVVl+NDLL28LD0pPqJTGhg8Xt76eLAbjAMyNOarvHRhN TPtka3FOxT4EPMbDpdtfExfXG0KpTT8EmSWC7SxiGQUmeb9jgnfuvbSfYzc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] DINRG charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:41:44 -0000 --=_MailMate_EE9183F5-5B9E-4E83-BEEE-98527F40A937_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the fixes and suggestions, Axel. Do you want to elaborate on the Distributed Access Token Validation topic? Regarding the related activities and communities — we have to see how we manage this list. It’s probably not useful to pretend having a definitive list in a charter — perhaps this is better done on a Wiki page in the end, with some form of categorization etc. Best regards, Dirk On 19 Sep 2017, at 19:46, Axel.Nennker@telekom.de wrote: > Hi, > > please find attached my changes for discussion. > > Kind regards > Axel > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation > > > > DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG > T-Labs (Research & Innovation) > Axel Nennker > Winterfeldtstr. 21, 10781 Berlin > +491702275312 (Tel.) > E-Mail: axel.nennker@telekom.de > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din --=_MailMate_EE9183F5-5B9E-4E83-BEEE-98527F40A937_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for the fixes and suggest= ions, Axel.

Do you want to elaborate on the Distributed Access Token = Validation topic?

Regarding the related activities and communities =E2=80=94= we have to see how we manage this list. It=E2=80=99s probably not useful= to pretend having a definitive list in a charter =E2=80=94 perhaps this = is better done on a Wiki page in the end, with some form of categorizatio= n etc.

Best regards,
Dirk




On 19 Sep 2017, at 19:46, Axel.Nennker@teleko= m.de wrote:

Hi,

 

please find attached my chang= es for discussion.

 

Kind regards

Axel

 

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation

 

 

 

DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG
T-Labs (Research & Innovation)
Axel Nennker
Winterfeldtstr. 21, 10781 Berlin
+491702275312 (Tel.)

E-Mail: axel.nennker@telekom.de

 = ;

 = ;

 

____________________________________________= ___
Din mailing list
Din@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/din

--=_MailMate_EE9183F5-5B9E-4E83-BEEE-98527F40A937_=-- From nobody Wed Sep 20 02:50:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF72F132D45 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:50:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fMZo9x4o5jF7 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB90D13208E for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.233] ([89.204.130.84]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lgc09-1da4Xd0gbN-00o2ZB; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:45:52 +0200 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: "Diego R. Lopez" Cc: "din@irtf.org" , "Melinda Shore" Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:45:45 +0200 Message-ID: <17180FEF-CDBE-4E05-A40F-C940F33E7D9B@dkutscher.net> In-Reply-To: <27309A00-C9CD-45CB-AF03-7B3A05782A94@telefonica.com> References: <0E6157A0-1B4F-4D72-B9F3-C7774B920C8D@dkutscher.net> <27309A00-C9CD-45CB-AF03-7B3A05782A94@telefonica.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_E1D41E11-652F-4F32-9346-66B5DBC2EC3C_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[1676, 17634], "plain":[322, 4281], "uuid":"9B1006BD-34DE-40D4-A0A1-61BD2BBC24F0"}] X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:7DjwQNTq8UK3hd7HHb2qnn6PBp3P/riuKfVYz0JrmwoO9Eb8Qfo c4ZlE5M1Eqmo6a+Y4+A+xQYHTAc6qS+gJET/HVT5o0MXWCXkp2NGIq5Ew9NA11h+NIwmM+1 apXT///t4UqHMUa8Y4nwJ2nzazn0PERqMhbHYb/Hq6V2Gd1TlchlqoUj8m+h1pNF647vGve pACkC1cQiQX+f+aIGwhCA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:9NKoyGkHDoI=:laypFl2mJ4zXUp04BfQ7yr 1zsUaFgUPru6sBTa2X0Uaqeh86qFfEcNu4wepZrimrEovpW4qnmLgvZy/8d2wZ339kTmxr4GY L1wz3sbIudWpmV3GI61PHD5OfrNlK/UWpkDy9a7yX/MNHp/1oysNi7NkKa2fo2bTQub7rqiRk pu857hqV7fPaSuvf9Sw7UKExnduc6O6fI7Sj+8+p/1gkbrThjReA7LLm98eRx4ssojeIrBP8h fgX7qfMZVQrf9OqzyuO7G0aS2eokLzshRJpOPJQmnSwe9r4SkPlmYW2Y6nijYhULJc6mgk9ss UAUG3XPEWQPi/9Pwd3YW4kOFMwQ1jxCTTmIbLWdrJdBmMx/mfI8PR6CckzYf8+9i4/V+h4DnL 9X/blu+GRxgTF5uWDHIHy5u7OrR2YK81HHhTuMfTeNqaoIWxcEqHAgSnGjJAvs4Gl36iwKq7+ dPl8chv3rsb7ihmuSfrlbPgeiAAULzMGVwN0XbIda+XRek3xF7z8L1QTNk8sdFaMKI+hY5H61 1XpaL182ZBXofz9YQYJI1czlZhCRnbjF8DXkMFi/EhYpMl3c0jucPzD9Q1cotfAZU0r2cf5Yn PtzorhihElk+70Bl5ghZ+IXX8bKs1+Z+1SEerACnuGER+fUBbF9mEzMgjh2PsKmn3P6NK9KMW uHLiuochUlP3IWLnX0fNyKwWGCRng20EZJnp/X0YJHrn4kJ1wEUDTDUK6NQz93BBbFU1YMM3w EYpUlbM51hbtDHdqH0jxaPanWKfal6DtYX3BM2trcQxt6FJ8BWnYx5BnGr0= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] Requesting comments on draft DIN charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:50:30 -0000 --=_MailMate_E1D41E11-652F-4F32-9346-66B5DBC2EC3C_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Diego, Thanks for that. My personal view is that there could indeed be a dichotomy of publically recorded transactions etc. and privacy concerns, so I am leaning towards including that. BTW, do you have a specific use case in mind? What do others say? Cheers, Dirk On 19 Sep 2017, at 14:46, Diego R. Lopez wrote: > Hi Dirk, > > Looking at the text I wonder whether we should include an explicit > mention to privacy among the research challenges, given that many of > these distributed infrastructures might facilitate unwanted access to > personal data used to describe or secure the information managed by > them. > > Be goode, > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > e-mail: > diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > > On 19/9/2017, 11:01 , "Din on behalf of Dirk Kutscher" > on behalf of > dku@dkutscher.net> wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > Thanks for the feedback and suggestions for improving the proposed > charter text. We have received input from Lixia Zhang, Eve Schooler, > Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Mankin and updated the > text accordingly: > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation > > Quick summary of the changes: > · highlighted Internet-level deployment criteria > (scalability, security, performance) > · mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated Computing as one > the research challenges > · clarified the implementation & deployment objectives in the > research challenges > > Please have a look and let us know if there are other suggestions etc. > > Also, we talked to Allison and are now aiming to run a meeting as a > Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at IETF-100 in Singapore. > > We are now starting to prepare that meeting. The current plan is to > look into selected use cases and experimentation results, but also to > discuss RG goals, next steps etc. > > You are very welcome to reach out to us if you would like to propose > something. > > Best regards, > Melinda & Dirk > > On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Melinda and I drafted a charter for a proposed Research Group on > Decentralized Internet Infrastructure: > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation > > This is based on our discussions in Prague and additional input we > received in the meantime. > > We would be grateful for any feedback. > > Specific questions of interests: > · Is this useful? > · Anything missing? > · Other suggestions? > · Do you want to contribute? > > Please group-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you see fit. > > Thanks, > Dirk & Melinda > > ________________________________ > > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din > > ________________________________ > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su > destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial > y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, > utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar > prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por > esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and > confidential information intended only for the use of the individual > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. > Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this > communication in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu > destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e > é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é > vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a > leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode > estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta > mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por > esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din --=_MailMate_E1D41E11-652F-4F32-9346-66B5DBC2EC3C_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Diego,

Thanks for that. My personal view is that there could ind= eed be a dichotomy of publically recorded transactions etc. and privacy c= oncerns, so I am leaning towards including that. BTW, do you have a speci= fic use case in mind? What do others say?

Cheers,
Dirk

On 19 Sep 2017, at 14:46, Diego R. Lopez wrote:

=

Hi Dirk,

 

Looking at the text I wonder whether we should include an = explicit mention to privacy among the research challenges, given that man= y of these distributed infrastructures might facilitate unwanted access to personal data used to describe or secure the informat= ion managed by them.

 

Be goode,

 

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
<= a href=3D"http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/">http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<= span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-seri= f;color:black">
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

 

 

On 19/9/2017, 11:01 ,= "Din on behalf of Dirk Kutscher" <din-bounces@irtf.org on behalf of dku@dkutscher.net> wrote:

 

=

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions f= or improving the proposed charter text. We have received input from Lixia= Zhang, Eve Schooler, Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Manki= n and updated the text accordingly:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockc= hain-federation

Quick summary of the changes:<= /p>

= =C2=B7         highlighted Internet-level deployment crit= eria (scalability, security, performance)

= =C2=B7         mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated = Computing as one the research challenges

= =C2=B7         clarified the implementation & deploym= ent objectives in the research challenges

Please have a look and let us know if the= re are other suggestions etc.

Also, we talked to Allison and are now ai= ming to run a meeting as a Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at = IETF-100 in Singapore.

We are now starting to prepare that meeti= ng. The current plan is to look into selected use cases and experimentati= on results, but also to discuss RG goals, next steps etc.

You are very welcome to reach out to us i= f you would like to propose something.

Best regards,
Melinda & Dirk

On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher w= rote:

=

Hi everyone= ,

Melinda and= I drafted a charter for a proposed Research Group on Decentralized Inter= net Infrastructure:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federatio= n

This is bas= ed on our discussions in Prague and additional input we received in the m= eantime.

We would be= grateful for any feedback.

Specific qu= estions of interests:

=C2=B7      Is this usef= ul?

=C2=B7      Anything mis= sing?

=C2=B7      Other sugges= tions?

=C2=B7      Do you want = to contribute?

Please grou= p-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you see fit.

Thanks,
= Dirk & Melinda

Din mailing= list
Din@irtf.or= g
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din



Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, = puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso= exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destina= tario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3=B3n, divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3= n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha r= ecibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediata= mente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a su destrucci=C3=B3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confiden= tial information intended only for the use of the individual or entity na= med above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, y= ou are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If= you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please imm= ediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in= error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=C3=A1= rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =C3=A9= para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 = vossa senhoria o destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou c=C3=B3pia sem = autoriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3= o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comun= ique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destrui=C3=A7=C3=A3= o

____________________________________________= ___
Din mailing list
Din@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/din

--=_MailMate_E1D41E11-652F-4F32-9346-66B5DBC2EC3C_=-- From nobody Wed Sep 20 03:15:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33AF13421A for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:15:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o2O9sKRAAvA9 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DBB51321A6 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id a137so4039023wma.0 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:14:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=mzwOlI9dhD1vEt2qcGaiuN1RHVE+4Sghl5rmHibLGmg=; b=fIFuL+3AEhAg+IriR5WN/y12ZT8YyiAmTr/X5wW7YKzLbIxD3BruejWviEsGKX8SN1 qlg71XoT7kJFdyyLitKB5ZwtNVH4bLEXAI50rcAX5dLyk3p2o1UL3r8P+avfPlTJZR1N H2s82KJuOZg3gVh76UKILVLVdZmuPa9wu+wm/PZ1HVlDC1a+/gZKxDj1PoVoWv/NbJMo KJDNPpmyZZO9GUpFG+GTRcIZi8PQDUOd0swos7Td8TzI4ScNWQ5uhQPeEZuIV1yRLEQF 5Vx1rCFE64qOJIVe4xlA4utOYBZSBhAAj6Asno76BfsYcarF44RQqTvyswtiGLv5g4V9 ms/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=mzwOlI9dhD1vEt2qcGaiuN1RHVE+4Sghl5rmHibLGmg=; b=miVKgLNWuZxvXn94mqFlQ6fQZKt/60wPDmtkIKaQR7gKo1nfA47UyAYy5dVX8VEBaE Vs7fCRzvreoyJ9WddpvjF5Av7+YxDap09cOc9QvBqleWUy0U3UTvtvOAMWbrfBQiIT7k SbNqYFkVzynBVcTSrZGsG4+baRO6O0n20cDIv1+a2N2lbuZMFJRc6wVCnWEvZcBlgR/Y 2+NLMeL6QtLpS/gvMYQt8EGYUkEn5rVf/OwLfUGPFQNZeYBateMUZRW3cXauqAibJOoJ XzVOS/3UU1XIKO+vQ6+buBscBenIqLgvtMXfb+Cg6UONzpaHQEPlgpJN9GA9eogHPhF4 01Kg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiH7Drbl/l4XnQ+0E3GMrxiFaIo0fsE2Xyn2aVgYmGwEqlg6ZgO tyzIKs0P6NkkMDFTCnMpt+A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBmgUx9Vx3goUV4ZPETiknNsQAnvxQw5+J2moheyiF4M8U/jj+MGz0bp5OG8k3Q8TVy8YQscg== X-Received: by 10.28.208.72 with SMTP id h69mr3812315wmg.134.1505902497286; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.124] (p5DC7FC78.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [93.199.252.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 63sm1320719wmm.18.2017.09.20.03.14.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <17180FEF-CDBE-4E05-A40F-C940F33E7D9B@dkutscher.net> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 12:14:54 +0200 Cc: "Diego R. Lopez" , Melinda Shore , "din@irtf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 527595294.348429-986f9c773314189f5dfba8fbd5ddff0d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0E6157A0-1B4F-4D72-B9F3-C7774B920C8D@dkutscher.net> <27309A00-C9CD-45CB-AF03-7B3A05782A94@telefonica.com> <17180FEF-CDBE-4E05-A40F-C940F33E7D9B@dkutscher.net> To: Dirk Kutscher X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] Requesting comments on draft DIN charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:15:02 -0000 Privacy (and targeted verifiable disclosure) are certainly on topic here = (e.g., TumbleBit). The discussion talks about networks constraints, but not about node = constraints; I think it is important to enable constrained nodes to = benefit from elements of a consensus item that they cannot process or = store as a complete set. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Sep 20, 2017, at 11:45, Dirk Kutscher wrote: >=20 > Hi Diego, >=20 > Thanks for that. My personal view is that there could indeed be a = dichotomy of publically recorded transactions etc. and privacy concerns, = so I am leaning towards including that. BTW, do you have a specific use = case in mind? What do others say? >=20 > Cheers, > Dirk >=20 > On 19 Sep 2017, at 14:46, Diego R. Lopez wrote: >=20 > Hi Dirk, > =20 > Looking at the text I wonder whether we should include an explicit = mention to privacy among the research challenges, given that many of = these distributed infrastructures might facilitate unwanted access to = personal data used to describe or secure the information managed by = them. > =20 > Be goode, > =20 > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" >=20 > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ >=20 > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > =20 > =20 > On 19/9/2017, 11:01 , "Din on behalf of Dirk Kutscher" = wrote: > =20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > Thanks for the feedback and suggestions for improving the proposed = charter text. We have received input from Lixia Zhang, Eve Schooler, = Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Mankin and updated the = text accordingly: >=20 > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation >=20 > Quick summary of the changes: >=20 > =C2=B7 highlighted Internet-level deployment criteria = (scalability, security, performance) > =C2=B7 mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated Computing as = one the research challenges > =C2=B7 clarified the implementation & deployment objectives in = the research challenges > Please have a look and let us know if there are other suggestions etc. >=20 > Also, we talked to Allison and are now aiming to run a meeting as a = Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at IETF-100 in Singapore. >=20 > We are now starting to prepare that meeting. The current plan is to = look into selected use cases and experimentation results, but also to = discuss RG goals, next steps etc. >=20 > You are very welcome to reach out to us if you would like to propose = something. >=20 > Best regards, > Melinda & Dirk >=20 > On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher wrote: >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > Melinda and I drafted a charter for a proposed Research Group on = Decentralized Internet Infrastructure: >=20 > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation >=20 > This is based on our discussions in Prague and additional input we = received in the meantime. >=20 > We would be grateful for any feedback. >=20 > Specific questions of interests: >=20 > =C2=B7 Is this useful?=20 > =C2=B7 Anything missing?=20 > =C2=B7 Other suggestions?=20 > =C2=B7 Do you want to contribute? > Please group-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you see fit. >=20 > Thanks, > Dirk & Melinda >=20 > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din >=20 >=20 >=20 > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su = destinatario, puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o = confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. = Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la = lectura, utilizaci=C3=B3n, divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3= n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha = recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique = inmediatamente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a su destrucci=C3=B3n. >=20 > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and = confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or = entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended = recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution = or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have = received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately = reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error = and then delete it. >=20 > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu = destinat=C3=A1rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou = confidencial e =C3=A9 para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de = destino. 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Se recebeu esta mensagem por = erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e = proceda a sua destrui=C3=A7=C3=A3o > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din From nobody Wed Sep 20 03:22:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BA3132D41 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aBArITiVTpsD for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr10104.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.1.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA2B7134230 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.168.57.26) by DB6PR0601MB2439.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.169.213.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.77.7; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:22:22 +0000 Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29a6:d86f:ad2:e821]) by DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29a6:d86f:ad2:e821%15]) with mapi id 15.20.0056.018; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:22:22 +0000 From: "Diego R. 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Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440041342DB for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 05:41:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6fCRpgfERS7T for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 05:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88A851330B1 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 05:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.233] ([89.204.135.197]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue001 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lg9rw-1dZvbb0qBw-00nfzx; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 14:41:39 +0200 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: "Carsten Bormann" Cc: "Melinda Shore" , "din@irtf.org" , "Diego R. Lopez" Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 14:41:36 +0200 Message-ID: <1262F1B2-54D7-4A71-ABCF-5A13700E2FA4@dkutscher.net> In-Reply-To: References: <0E6157A0-1B4F-4D72-B9F3-C7774B920C8D@dkutscher.net> <27309A00-C9CD-45CB-AF03-7B3A05782A94@telefonica.com> <17180FEF-CDBE-4E05-A40F-C940F33E7D9B@dkutscher.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:VoXOXwcLPLtU8L/aiajWz8jpp2tjYKw8ZytA0KCBcQ9B+dKPjtd E9rX6aKirNeZlnpp9X8VJHzQT42aIy+Nz9fRvpPVIg5m0AAxvdILDO9ZBAg+4Jrvb9F/OuO reJKQadrjx3l8O0a6x2irNxMh/BF2CA/s8lXI2MUJxwPC72DqowznfvNHsl5FF3dI0UPQTO 1/DVN8xpfdBvmKU+JLqWg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KM0VNPGeK58=:OTSRi4N58N0N9UaT+EoErQ bxQT+hnDhWD/1Adu0cnb4KDC8bNqP9yqJqpJQwuIk5f9afUe+n2pAcTtTg90hs7uTgDlcyqFj Q/TprlQA9ACtjmlmBBEDsMuQ5J+cw4kn52CkQ6ObKHOXJuW+b+jVGc/tchpn3352Za7aHL8aN potws+FagoQwVj7UoockDER8cSIhHJlfVYfjuNtKmuENOUrkstw7rbLLuWt7K/t0MZ8kAbZFm 5MTIjrBOPzG7bT/02lwpD9O0ycjjX9twSiWiIQPHXyNTTcr8e6H03L/bvOsPqifSmSSZmKR9t XSuq0as//ZrYIqhN9t0HRON2TWGmXEsb3BTtRpmHB3hSmQ2rpHtcH1srkm0kUtpnxUFyjq1Zk CJAS1a4G9AM7MmhYS5w4ihaX7jq75J43MiI3aFfxTLjAi4cFDf6iTcRR4q8bazULByJUlp/Iz owBtO2URHvu6qEHC+hy7sbZC/dsw54MwQo8OqFssswCM2ttwpvphI0w750aTGnq+sUZel+kYg RmGkcGJUdXfXLXsAx2KSeEClMipjKh8UhOqmIMQg0kFLpt8L4N7QiOZ3JhGcVsaNP6yRrqqYd +E4daOtBXXPy7eXMzwl2qqm/QCn7IF4ywJGx7D38afuui00HTQIF4SLpGorld8dUk0N9JW9fW u2wHMA3BoGAsngArCh8cYX1pW7PJ2MUyKx17A1Ec0CxYO9gUv1/d6QsRu1ZRt7uSAlX4YD+ik uESl59HsDMb/yOfyduavIZEDy8g/3JXq8Q6CKNHZNFuHpVMFVtakhMpbIgo= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] Requesting comments on draft DIN charter X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 12:41:50 -0000 On 20 Sep 2017, at 12:14, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Privacy (and targeted verifiable disclosure) are certainly on topic > here (e.g., TumbleBit). > > The discussion talks about networks constraints, but not about node > constraints; I think it is important to enable constrained nodes to > benefit from elements of a consensus item that they cannot process or > store as a complete set. Yes, good points (both)! Cheers, Dirk > Grüße, Carsten > > >> On Sep 20, 2017, at 11:45, Dirk Kutscher wrote: >> >> Hi Diego, >> >> Thanks for that. My personal view is that there could indeed be a >> dichotomy of publically recorded transactions etc. and privacy >> concerns, so I am leaning towards including that. BTW, do you have a >> specific use case in mind? What do others say? >> >> Cheers, >> Dirk >> >> On 19 Sep 2017, at 14:46, Diego R. Lopez wrote: >> >> Hi Dirk, >> >> Looking at the text I wonder whether we should include an explicit >> mention to privacy among the research challenges, given that many of >> these distributed infrastructures might facilitate unwanted access to >> personal data used to describe or secure the information managed by >> them. >> >> Be goode, >> >> -- >> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" >> >> Dr Diego R. Lopez >> Telefonica I+D >> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ >> >> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com >> Tel: +34 913 129 041 >> Mobile: +34 682 051 091 >> ---------------------------------- >> >> >> On 19/9/2017, 11:01 , "Din on behalf of Dirk Kutscher" >> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Thanks for the feedback and suggestions for improving the proposed >> charter text. We have received input from Lixia Zhang, Eve Schooler, >> Thomas Hardjono, Spencer Dawkins, and Allison Mankin and updated the >> text accordingly: >> >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation >> >> Quick summary of the changes: >> >> · highlighted Internet-level deployment criteria >> (scalability, security, performance) >> · mentioned Distributed Trust and Delegated Computing as one >> the research challenges >> · clarified the implementation & deployment objectives in >> the research challenges >> Please have a look and let us know if there are other suggestions >> etc. >> >> Also, we talked to Allison and are now aiming to run a meeting as a >> Proposed RG as part of the official agenda at IETF-100 in Singapore. >> >> We are now starting to prepare that meeting. The current plan is to >> look into selected use cases and experimentation results, but also to >> discuss RG goals, next steps etc. >> >> You are very welcome to reach out to us if you would like to propose >> something. >> >> Best regards, >> Melinda & Dirk >> >> On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:35, Dirk Kutscher wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Melinda and I drafted a charter for a proposed Research Group on >> Decentralized Internet Infrastructure: >> >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/irtf/wiki/blockchain-federation >> >> This is based on our discussions in Prague and additional input we >> received in the meantime. >> >> We would be grateful for any feedback. >> >> Specific questions of interests: >> >> · Is this useful? >> · Anything missing? >> · Other suggestions? >> · Do you want to contribute? >> Please group-reply or unicast to Melinda and me as you see fit. >> >> Thanks, >> Dirk & Melinda >> >> Din mailing list >> Din@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din >> >> >> >> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su >> destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial >> y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es >> usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, >> utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar >> prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este >> mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por >> esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. >> >> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and >> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual >> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the >> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. >> If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. >> Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this >> communication in error and then delete it. >> >> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu >> destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial >> e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é >> vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a >> leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização >> pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu >> esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente >> por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição >> _______________________________________________ >> Din mailing list >> Din@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Din mailing list >> Din@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din > > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din From nobody Mon Sep 25 03:34:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@irtf.org Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EC9134290; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 03:34:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: dinrg-chairs@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org, ietf@dkutscher.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150633565977.27606.3089741095613601153.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 03:34:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] dinrg - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 10:34:20 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Dirk Kutscher, a Chair of the dinrg working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Proposed RG Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Dirk Kutscher Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: icnrg tls trans t2trg saag Second Priority: detnet quic People who must be present: Melinda Shore Dirk Kutscher Resources Requested: Special Requests: cannot take place on Friday --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Sep 28 17:28:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@irtf.org Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3581344AC; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:28:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: dinrg-chairs@ietf.org, melinda.shore@nomountain.net, din@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150664491134.14189.3098582964982621831.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:28:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] dinrg - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:28:31 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Melinda Shore, a Chair of the dinrg working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Proposed RG Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Melinda Shore Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: icnrg tls trans t2trg saag gaia Second Priority: detnet quic People who must be present: Melinda Shore Dirk Kutscher Allison Mankin Resources Requested: Special Requests: cannot take place on Friday --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Sep 29 16:37:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186B8133038 for ; 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Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web3 ([10.202.2.213]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:37:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=XTdPtsrp8Qre+QSK7vhIiFQqJLBFv yh9VZFH+vSDj4g=; b=X9b6A0V5mmCactZVYb6z/YzAeacbE/cPSk8eTTEC1iZai FAONsXi2EX2I5vt/1s20alLr5THaOUgu8+eVQKnLKsBBsqdEud2iZvTte3E2qFct uIhnUE+eGd5anNdqrSBDJ/EtCth1KeHtxZA3XJi0FDeiUewzlHDi+9v3q8yjLvZE UW649gWPWagDF4a5mOTgudEIzcmab+lKRqgATRN2HsMh9DUx3uhdtmg9kYaoA+2m 5UpDq0aqF48uqQcXziPMq/F8LMkqM5+QCQOvFBH5npJMCJg21leOaoza6Kx6TfOb Xx221HbiswtKBR1kar/nU3dgjtHxYlKq4nHJNkBfw== X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 750CF9EC05; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1506728223.3803132.1123032216.7AAA6987@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Jehan Tremback To: din@irtf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-6cb49228 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:37:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] Althea blockchain mesh live demo X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 23:37:06 -0000 Hello, someone posted about this group on the GAIA list. I thought you might appreciate a project that myself and a small team of other developers have been working on for a while. It's a system to let routers pay each other for internet, using several Babel extensions and extremely low-overhead cryptocurrency payments. We want this to eventually replace ISPs with decentralized networks of individuals running wireless and wired networking equipment. In the short term, we're trying to roll it out with wireless ISPs in the US as a way to let their customers do some of the work of expanding their networks. Here's a live demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyFEYEcHJyA And here's our whitepaper: http://altheamesh.com/documents/whitepaper.pdf I'll be presenting it at the GAIA group at IETF 100 in Singapore (with a live participatory demo if I'm able to make it in person), and am happy to present for this group as well, or just join in on the discussions. -- Jehan Tremback jehan@altheamesh.com