From sm@resistor.net Thu Aug 1 08:30:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AEC21E815C for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cDqeng7OKhdI for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772BC21E8195 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r71FTn1s025209; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:29:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375370996; bh=yrMaGiJowQigc4W9JErzU0WKZ9PhNI8U0jGvSfO7lGs=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=rwlxS8+P0BkIcE47nAKZephFPuGi79KfrsEYQblBf2wSNs52WA2QFbDt2SyrAUaYb tfouZJwUejao6yV+/nLyTM8veYoue0nfphRRIbJk7udMJsJXT8H9tokuMlpKuyCoNW oyQ73PmLPCbO9Mi7Xce7a6T6boyxKbHT3SHNP3LY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1375370996; i=@resistor.net; bh=yrMaGiJowQigc4W9JErzU0WKZ9PhNI8U0jGvSfO7lGs=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=kWCOcFKDAS4UC8F9fhOcc2ZybYCgGk0pdEMwjZvDbey+psuCuXz/Ag9jhVsFQPawE GaZO87VHU+D4mxMNcP1TO1JmYDoKHBfKT5RLtFSU+oIjV5puR8v791RfnUELbyuRZa oFm6SF1muA1wLIbbFH1eBBUwyr4k1o8YE9gF3UfA= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:29:33 -0700 To: Andy Bierman , Yoav Nir From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <81B94276-0050-434D-8451-26068E199CA5@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:30:15 -0000 At 06:30 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: >Please provide some evidence that a loud hum means the person is more >committed to work on an item. > >Favoring loud humming is subject to cultural bias. >Some cultures are more inclined to raise their voice than others. >Some people have naturally louder voices than others. >Measuring volume may introduce bias in favor of loud men and against >soft-spoken women, for example. > >This cultural bias is not compatible with increased inclusiveness. There are very few women attending a WG session. Any person at the current meeting can see for himself or herself whether what I wrote is correct or not. Comparing hums for a yes or no question is a rough guess. I don't know who in the room usually raises his or her voice. When the noise sounds louder from a part of the room I will have a doubt that my rough guess is good enough. As the action I take in such cases is publicly documented I don't have to mention it again. People from some parts of the world are more inclined to raise their hands. I notice when the people I am acquainted with have raised their hands. Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Thu Aug 1 09:17:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6314211E810F for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DNsAr5KhgnOp for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919F611E810A for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r71GHB9s014698; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:17:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375373838; bh=G2irVHLRL5VCL99/EbvZp0aKo3v70KqCm/XKNri9Y1w=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=nYsKy+hqkyU5bJxoQQkPEf7RbmEoeESz+TpdyImTZXrhQv1HGcNyoWch9vgbCYK2g 5OjknZfi+VNztx5IQL5jfBW3W0Y/RkDy/ToSnojXre3O3jJRF/fwVegVDS306YxR2z kZcskMZjXgsfBkaDRw9XKWf2nr4ldWQ+B2wO+4Ak= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1375373838; i=@resistor.net; bh=G2irVHLRL5VCL99/EbvZp0aKo3v70KqCm/XKNri9Y1w=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=mlZXSERToA1yh+oFh5v9vq+qrUKgHrUnrhWNc1Nidx8zhlSlsOeInb96jQHmS5cvl cQZk1zOYImk3UbMwR9ONdQ7GQMmKy5QitvpsUBXEnuod5nHJC46ileWf233oMoM11e lonRhbJrTy/pfR80Mw5kUTJxPX5WrEULCSKLR+8M= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130801085913.0d161b80@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:16:38 -0700 To: Andy Bierman From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <81B94276-0050-434D-8451-26068E199CA5@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:17:32 -0000 Hi Andy, At 08:35 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: >I was not aware that maintaining anonymity was a goal >built into the WG process. It seems that this would >be incompatible with mailing list review comments. I am acknowledged in Section 9 of draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02. Mr Housley is the IAB Chair. Mr Curran is the President and CEO of ARIN. Mr Huston is the Chief Scientist at APNIC. As these distinguished gentlemen have not mentioned that there is a problem with my mailing list comments I assume that there isn't any problem. I note that according to the IESG draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02 reflects IETF Consensus. I assume that the learned members of the IESG have carefully reviewed draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02 and my mailing list comments about that draft. It seems to me that there isn't any incompatibility with mailing list review comments. :-) Regards, -sm From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Thu Aug 1 21:38:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB1B21E8221 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:38:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvEN0LaxpZOs for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x231.google.com (mail-pb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5B721E8054 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id xb4so228104pbc.8 for ; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:37:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=MHLXJqYrk0LwA/K0CaJe4hNEiPScBqChV/ehPmCXxic=; b=ZbTuFrOzRhR5uhedxSBlqsHZ7jWPnKYC4dmw3TUzoji2wagclSJRtQ2HbSvlLpRf2B btLBnY3vDE/L5wZjOS0BHG7VkkETyVrWoZMQUe8af/ICpuLZ5y24aWfBqx3viQYrLDsW Kzok/h0BlPGooIIrv3xTmQhD0lp/4mQfmsbsukFMpDdJuc9x6HOHX6dKC4zj2LmHyd9c IlJkqLEJ2EJyyXhmsu3nqaQuTWpQmue87SZuZHUirrA3fPxlYCT2DgEImQ4BAWjvOoXI yLaiEyf5z77Cna5lo2SR/+Gl3vIPVTBEShG/V3WtaIzuXOsinEmKVyIfuUEYrLz1gNMh LISg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.228.201 with SMTP id sk9mr5731426pbc.4.1375418274306; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.250.133 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 21:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:37:54 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: diversity@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: SM Subject: [Diversity] The community or IETF bias (was Re: Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF)) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 04:38:46 -0000 >>Favoring loud humming is subject to cultural bias. [1] >>This cultural bias is not compatible with increased inclusiveness. [1] > There are very few women attending a WG session. Any person at the > current meeting can see for himself or herself whether what I wrote > is correct or not. [1] [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00177.html Why is the above true in IETF activities? I think the answer is below; In reasonable cultures I think I would like to know the reason of hums against, so the chair should announce why are the against? (in the BoF of 6tsch I did not hear any reason from people against, so I think there is nothing valuable). Best reasons should help us make value into our decisions. If we know we can adjust and get to better progress-results or better work-together (the community becoming one team, not a team becoming the community). IMHO, the *aim of consensus* in any community culture is not just to make up our decision, but is to make the best-decision and to make it together without excluding minorities. Groups in the community try to drive the community or to make the group decision a community decision, so we need to give more chance to minorities/diverse to explain their point of view. If the point of view is more reasonable then I will think it is more important than majority decision ( i.e. decision with weak reasons or defence). Is the IETF culture reasonable or is it drived by few men, groups or regions? I noticed that IETF does practice excluding when one of my announced-reviews effort on a draft was not acknowledged. Huming, announcing-reasons and hand voting are just tools for knowledge of community direction. So I think that IETF gives chance to groups/teams to drive the community/reason not the other way around. I think women are more reasonable and more working with community, than men :-) Giving Chance to Diversity in IETF with acknowledging input/reason/knowledge is the solution. AB On 8/1/13, SM wrote: > At 06:30 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: >>Please provide some evidence that a loud hum means the person is more >>committed to work on an item. >> >>Favoring loud humming is subject to cultural bias. >>Some cultures are more inclined to raise their voice than others. >>Some people have naturally louder voices than others. >>Measuring volume may introduce bias in favor of loud men and against >>soft-spoken women, for example. >> >>This cultural bias is not compatible with increased inclusiveness. > > There are very few women attending a WG session. Any person at the > current meeting can see for himself or herself whether what I wrote > is correct or not. > > Comparing hums for a yes or no question is a rough guess. I don't > know who in the room usually raises his or her voice. When the noise > sounds louder from a part of the room I will have a doubt that my > rough guess is good enough. As the action I take in such cases is > publicly documented I don't have to mention it again. > > People from some parts of the world are more inclined to raise their > hands. I notice when the people I am acquainted with have raised their > hands. > > Regards, > -sm > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From adrian@olddog.co.uk Thu Aug 1 23:29:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D4E11E825E for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:29:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.514 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.514 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.085, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dO5Flb+4N4Jq for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CADE11E825A for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r726SADH010176; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:28:11 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-13f0.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r726S6IR010145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:28:10 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'SM'" , "'Andy Bierman'" , "'Yoav Nir'" References: <81B94276-0050-434D-8451-26068E199CA5@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:28:04 +0100 Message-ID: <010401ce8f49$74afdcb0$5e0f9610$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEEq2liIKrt/vDSshDN9GoExZWELQFXKI5TAhGM2IMBoEC0eQHcyZeGmt4LNHA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 06:29:25 -0000 Most forms of taking a "feel of the room" will be subject to cultural concerns. Won't hum loud, won't raise hand, won't vote if my boss is in the room to vote, won't vote a different way from what my wife told me, didn't understand the question, etc. I could cite both public referenda and women's votes in certain Swiss cantons as good examples that run counter to (my) intuition and demonstrate the cultural influence on such processes. But a major meta-cultural issue is embedded here. Many people raised this on the ietf list, but I feel it is not well noted. None of this discussion is about anything that changes outcomes directly. It is about stuff that provides input to WG chairs. There are many ways to provide input including face-to-face conversations, telephone calls, and email. Many times, these will be far more influential. Cheers, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: diversity-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:diversity-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of SM > Sent: 01 August 2013 16:30 > To: Andy Bierman; Yoav Nir > Cc: diversity@ietf.org > Subject: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) > > At 06:30 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: > >Please provide some evidence that a loud hum means the person is more > >committed to work on an item. > > > >Favoring loud humming is subject to cultural bias. > >Some cultures are more inclined to raise their voice than others. > >Some people have naturally louder voices than others. > >Measuring volume may introduce bias in favor of loud men and against > >soft-spoken women, for example. > > > >This cultural bias is not compatible with increased inclusiveness. > > There are very few women attending a WG session. Any person at the > current meeting can see for himself or herself whether what I wrote > is correct or not. > > Comparing hums for a yes or no question is a rough guess. I don't > know who in the room usually raises his or her voice. When the noise > sounds louder from a part of the room I will have a doubt that my > rough guess is good enough. As the action I take in such cases is > publicly documented I don't have to mention it again. > > People from some parts of the world are more inclined to raise their > hands. I notice when the people I am acquainted with have raised their hands. > > Regards, > -sm > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Fri Aug 2 12:32:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D3B11E80A2; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_TOOL=2.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1rSLMYQL+uzM; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6101711E80D7; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 12:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si02.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI02.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.55]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r72JVf08012363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:31:47 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com ([10.254.221.253]) by hop04-l1d11-si02.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:31:20 -0400 Received: from mxhub11.corp.emc.com (mxhub11.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.106]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r72JVIhn011939; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:31:19 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.184]) by mxhub11.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.106]) with mapi; Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:31:17 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: "Olle E. Johansson" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 15:31:14 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity-dt] [Diversity] plenary presentation comments Thread-Index: Ac6PttwL1vKJ5DYVRFOMBDJ/dBz49A== Message-ID: <16384030-12E4-4012-A0FA-51F5B1453404@emc.com> References: <446310CD-431D-4F1E-9BC7-AFFE7AF66FFF@viagenie.ca> <9B048CEF-5414-4084-B430-73C137B3C903@edvina.net> In-Reply-To: <9B048CEF-5414-4084-B430-73C137B3C903@edvina.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1638403012E44012A0FA51F5B1453404emccom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: Marc Blanchet , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" , "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] plenary presentation comments X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 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diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F71B21F9B10 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:20:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.752, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OaK5iti163DR for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85F921F9D3A for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 05:20:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1899; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1375532408; x=1376742008; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject; bh=6QhhiPOdIP7nrGkzWZIHFRVJ7M+WPH1+V9v7J7ZmUH8=; b=CWakX9DIFUBVDHHDI6vX+zB1su+fkTHLro/emc7BksPh805ze0m+sKGv XPGWOOcNNyHZBmnWmEixbsnSjskcxWauPbmBn5kAMa2csEGC22uHNIylr lMV/lUXP+NJt46Tgb0r4CmaL/x+RlYNOiOAXDG7RUl80KxtS3i7JcVTaG E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkUFAAf1/FGQ/khM/2dsb2JhbABagwYBhBSFXbdCFnSCGzNVHwEdFgsCCwMCAQIBKxQZCAEBiAyXWY8AkQ6QNoJQgScDl2CRT4MZOoEuJA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,729,1367971200"; d="scan'208,217";a="16291429" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Aug 2013 12:19:49 +0000 Received: from mctiny.local ([10.61.214.24]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r73CJkBG010681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 12:19:47 GMT Message-ID: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:19:47 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060903050704040603000909" Subject: [Diversity] transcription X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 12:20:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060903050704040603000909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he mentioned to me that transcription really helps. I wonder if you would like to put this on the list of things things to validate. I recognize that such services are expensive. In fact I used to transcribe for the DKIM working group from time to time (I have this freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 wpm, people typically speak at 150). I won't do this for every working group, but I would be willing to do it for *one* I am attending, upon request. I wonder if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as well. Eliot --------------060903050704040603000909 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone,

I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he mentioned to me that transcription really helps.  I wonder if you would like to put this on the list of things things to validate.  I recognize that such services are expensive.  In fact I used to transcribe for the DKIM working group from time to time (I have this freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 wpm, people typically speak at 150).  I won't do this for every working group, but I would be willing to do it for one I am attending, upon request.  I wonder if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as well.

Eliot


--------------060903050704040603000909-- From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Sat Aug 3 06:22:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD56F21F99C0 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:22:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B778UD1XzKRY for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8701611E80D1 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r73DMKsI028919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:22:20 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd03.lss.emc.com [10.254.221.145]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:22:02 -0400 Received: from mxhub25.corp.emc.com (mxhub25.corp.emc.com [10.254.110.181]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r73DM1NX018640; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:22:02 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.184]) by mxhub25.corp.emc.com ([10.254.110.181]) with mapi; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:22:01 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: Eliot Lear Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:21:58 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] transcription Thread-Index: Ac6QTG+6RMQVk0Q4RdyUUhYHGElQ8Q== Message-ID: <006DEF25-CC8A-4E74-A182-527A0B730A85@emc.com> References: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_006DEF25CC8A4E74A182527A0B730A85emccom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] transcription X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 13:22:39 -0000 --_000_006DEF25CC8A4E74A182527A0B730A85emccom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sat, 3 Aug 2013 08:43:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aO1RLyMT-+3m for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 08:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3383D21F9CA4 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 08:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r73FgsKO009433; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1375544579; bh=xRDGK4OuHxffMhatd1Lh/V5thDfvdjJ3Wj7kjO2wlhI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=RlkwVwcJJMHtMLQYclQ3P8lTC37Wx7+Zp+5QjURI+7gPqk0gxCoAYjVdUSF93yg0t y1e47snUAA0hVCrElA/Xnmd4f4yEVoNJrgT3weUYIftInrWhzEzvZ2UDtirT3wSmJs dKmTeElwLm8ZfkLc7YyxJgwdE9ov/i5vj1uRULp4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1375544579; i=@resistor.net; bh=xRDGK4OuHxffMhatd1Lh/V5thDfvdjJ3Wj7kjO2wlhI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=FHPyKu+nqWMMA+VVGx+M6w1MaL8LCsFwh3giB8J/IM46X0IWE//yu1wqbhLRg+3ze vTdhcAsvhzFNg/MX42Ptmcc0ecwJ4M9dFP9qexQ0vwTZ5PXfUHWuV/O+3YaABE+CKL PwdTXAUyosjlZu6os17BpTUsSyOo80xiXHf6cKF4= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130803082952.0cacf4f8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 08:38:41 -0700 To: Eliot Lear From: SM In-Reply-To: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> References: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] transcription X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 15:43:04 -0000 Hi Eliot, At 05:19 03-08-2013, Eliot Lear wrote: >I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he >mentioned to me that transcription really helps. I wonder if you >would like to put this on the list of things things to validate. I >recognize that such services are expensive. I suggested transcription to the IAOC a few years ago. Nothing was done. I talked to a few people a few months ago and they mentioned that it would really help. In my opinion it is easy to initiate what you suggested. Regards, -sm From klaas@wierenga.net Sat Aug 3 09:17:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FD221F9CF8 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.699, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i8BwG4I0afoN for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out42-ams.mf.surf.net (out42-ams.mf.surf.net [145.0.1.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1B021F9C40 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teletubbie.het.net.je (teletubbie.het.net.je [192.87.110.29]) by outgoing2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id r73GHaQu018839; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:17:36 +0200 Received: from 5355139f.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([83.85.19.159] helo=[192.168.2.98]) by teletubbie.het.net.je with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1V5eVg-000H7V-Kx; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 18:16:52 +0200 References: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-493F5D93-BC6F-4292-BB02-F837D6062093 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <55C1EAE8-8412-4956-83E1-7942731F8A34@wierenga.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: Klaas Wierenga Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:17:35 +0200 To: Eliot Lear X-Antivirus: no malware found X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=192.87.110.29; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: p-out:default (inherits from p:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0vK8ghAKO - 35ff69f34a5e - 20130803 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] transcription X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:17:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail-493F5D93-BC6F-4292-BB02-F837D6062093 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As a non-native speaker, I understand where this is coming from. I myself fe= el however typically well served by good slides and perhaps running minutes,= they don't have to be verbose for me, but your kilometers may vary :-) One might argue that, given that the language of choice for the IETF is Engl= ish (wouldn't it be great to switch to Dutch?) that a certain mastery of tha= t language is needed. I am all for chairs making sure that slides are number= ed, clear, no idiom and (I know that is is controversial) contain some intro= duction to the problem at hand, but the fact is that for a meaningful discus= sion there needs to be some mutual understanding, unless we would go for sim= ultaneous translation.=20 So where is the low hanging fruit that would make life easier immediately? N= ot sure that that is in transcribing.... Klaas Sent from my iPad On 3 aug. 2013, at 14:19, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi everyone, >=20 > I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he mentio= ned to me that transcription really helps. I wonder if you would like to pu= t this on the list of things things to validate. I recognize that such serv= ices are expensive. In fact I used to transcribe for the DKIM working group= from time to time (I have this freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 w= pm, people typically speak at 150). I won't do this for every working group= , but I would be willing to do it for one I am attending, upon request. I w= onder if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as w= ell. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --Apple-Mail-493F5D93-BC6F-4292-BB02-F837D6062093 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

As a non-= native speaker, I understand where this is coming from. I myself feel howeve= r typically well served by good slides and perhaps running minutes, they don= 't have to be verbose for me, but your kilometers may vary :-)
One= might argue that, given that the language of choice for the IETF is English= (wouldn't it be great to switch to Dutch?) that a certain mastery of that l= anguage is needed. I am all for chairs making sure that slides are numbered,= clear, no idiom and (I know that is is controversial) contain some introduc= tion to the problem at hand, but the fact is that for a meaningful discussio= n there needs to be some mutual understanding, unless we would go for simult= aneous translation. 
So where is the low hanging fruit that w= ould make life easier immediately? Not sure that that is in transcribing....=

Klaas

Sent from my iPad

On 3 a= ug. 2013, at 14:19, Eliot Lear <lear@ci= sco.com> wrote:

=20 =20 =20 Hi everyone,

I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he mentioned to me that transcription really helps.  I wonder if you would like to put this on the list of things things to validate.  I= recognize that such services are expensive.  In fact I used to transcribe for the DKIM working group from time to time (I have this freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 wpm, people typically speak at 150).  I won't do this for every working group, but I woul= d be willing to do it for one I am attending, upon request.  I= wonder if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as well.

Eliot


=20
____________________= ___________________________
diversity mailing listdiversity@ietf.orghttps://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
= --Apple-Mail-493F5D93-BC6F-4292-BB02-F837D6062093-- From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Sun Aug 4 14:47:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69EF021E80A5 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2sCPxaFxTHL for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22e.google.com (mail-oa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B05521E80A6 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id l10so4792748oag.19 for ; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:47:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=sLwofy9DHaXBsRId0vEg0XN9tcsK/cTx7JWzHyDaOsk=; b=vr4BJcKHiuaV7S8vt/9VBNEre2ZVKSpK3QnJth7f1cnd0ob9dI9LBj1wVGjJ+JoqWU VbVyf6kIepcYusACdTKpZcOZoHnpdYBjdJuSfhwKgJBNqGXJDBOP+QZRK1azO3/hHYum kWoZ+yA8QZUtwJDz4uadgB2rFeKVtRT79/mmPsB4KEBN7LPz+W0gsimvfcqKqKxMJbV/ nRj30/WvuT6Ip8jdzYPPsdKSaftxr3wbix8vbunJCc+CN9KPNo7DYQv7Q48by55M+W7S L+X1bMhmdkRpcp2pLss4Xr3TlA24bkwjGkOHQjJL85tu+xd9jIfjX5AsevMa7NsAtn6e tlkg== X-Received: by 10.60.94.230 with SMTP id df6mr12598313oeb.64.1375652826678; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.23] (173-97-116-174.pools.spcsdns.net. [173.97.116.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id jz7sm20402293obb.4.2013.08.04.14.46.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51FECBD1.2040408@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:46:57 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <51FCF563.7040204@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040305060104070501030802" Subject: Re: [Diversity] transcription X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 21:47:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040305060104070501030802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/3/2013 7:19 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he > mentioned to me that transcription really helps. I wonder if you > would like to put this on the list of things things to validate. I > recognize that such services are expensive. In fact I used to > transcribe for the DKIM working group from time to time (I have this > freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 wpm, people typically > speak at 150). I won't do this for every working group, but I would > be willing to do it for *one* I am attending, upon request. I wonder > if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as > well. I'm thinking that this is another task where Eliot is better than Spencer is (seriously), but I took notes at a lot of working group meetings for several years, and for most of that time, I don't think I missed much (*) (at least thought-for-thought), so there are at least a few others who have something like that ability "out there". Spencer (*) I'm assuming that if I *was* horrible, chairs wouldn't keep asking me to take notes, meeting after meeting :-) --------------040305060104070501030802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 8/3/2013 7:19 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
Hi everyone,

I was talking to someone who is a non-native English speaker and he mentioned to me that transcription really helps.  I wonder if you would like to put this on the list of things things to validate.  I recognize that such services are expensive.  In fact I used to transcribe for the DKIM working group from time to time (I have this freakish ability to type very fast - ca 135 wpm, people typically speak at 150).  I won't do this for every working group, but I would be willing to do it for one I am attending, upon request.  I wonder if others (a) have this ability, and (b) would be willing to offer as well.

I'm thinking that this is another task where Eliot is better than Spencer is (seriously), but I took notes at a lot of working group meetings for several years, and for most of that time, I don't think I missed much (*) (at least thought-for-thought), so there are at least a few others who have something like that ability "out there".

Spencer

(*) I'm assuming that if I *was* horrible, chairs wouldn't keep asking me to take notes, meeting after meeting :-)
--------------040305060104070501030802-- From andy@yumaworks.com Thu Aug 1 08:35:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9EE921E8195 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:35:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRcljKyzCA+L for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com (mail-pa0-f48.google.com [209.85.220.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51A121E818D for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id kp13so2255699pab.7 for ; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=rT9EIB8sP8PlcGH0VlQHCsNj7LhFgOEQmQ1xB9wVaLE=; b=JwarIiwEK7LpgPQ/8rj6nwspTIZSQD3fYxkS4GlhHKT+KnpdewFPZq63AHgGNnnGIf dGzYGMufTWE3Rn3HFNXLBa2s89r919zo9FzunkfFgAKYkWVlAUgEeoiSU8KwXZM1pMHa GNdCg2LsIO4FXKWpMuFCGUkauGxl5khFoa23osdBv+6vJ+bNVsxRHXgd2eib9z+DXxp2 CuwRgarANQsfHQGcGbufQlrhN6ULYiJI+c8ACrOqojrtA5JWvYhTyZnM54Qc/CZw74Eh oC/SoK35vMTDtYfnVtBMtcJA7XttKHE9oTuUWeXHdbCQlHu1yPWFNjlkflIfyr/VFCyU 3ZfA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.60.132 with SMTP id h4mr2719356pbr.177.1375371317248; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.12.161 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> References: <81B94276-0050-434D-8451-26068E199CA5@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: SM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlNZjBgvoc7iMK3EJGVqK3zs9W+fJrvlv0tVX/U1g7G25KZSkIQWtqNUBa9T20/dt+nHEqZ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 08:45:25 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:35:30 -0000 Hi, I was not aware that maintaining anonymity was a goal built into the WG process. It seems that this would be incompatible with mailing list review comments. Andy On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:29 AM, SM wrote: > At 06:30 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> Please provide some evidence that a loud hum means the person is more >> committed to work on an item. >> >> Favoring loud humming is subject to cultural bias. >> Some cultures are more inclined to raise their voice than others. >> Some people have naturally louder voices than others. >> Measuring volume may introduce bias in favor of loud men and against >> soft-spoken women, for example. >> >> This cultural bias is not compatible with increased inclusiveness. > > > There are very few women attending a WG session. Any person at the current > meeting can see for himself or herself whether what I wrote is correct or > not. > > Comparing hums for a yes or no question is a rough guess. I don't know who > in the room usually raises his or her voice. When the noise sounds louder > from a part of the room I will have a doubt that my rough guess is good > enough. As the action I take in such cases is publicly documented I don't > have to mention it again. > > People from some parts of the world are more inclined to raise their hands. > I notice when the people I am acquainted with have raised their hands. > > Regards, > -sm From andy@yumaworks.com Thu Aug 1 09:26:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C2C11E810D for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.429, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XeWKuW0T49Tt for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f180.google.com (mail-pd0-f180.google.com [209.85.192.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5137F21F9CDA for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 15so2180453pdi.39 for ; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=lNTBP1pO3lE+KS4ikp+12e2ZE5BafmBg5JGzj08eAu4=; b=gyoh6g2TSEea9Vdlmex+mSmOfk3d4wk42pIBXZZUF1NRFicLlYIq/rFL3t7+uXXGmW 4Sau/aV49Q9EXnNO+ncwQINmIf6Sj6nH9sI8l7Gtk27mNjeLxDD7EJgnR7QgHGaDIGos nGi5xFaMxvQjcfROIxjUtaddILAhjaokGh6WzTdGbP4XbUKo/tjLsjctmtpl8dPXgjuq gxVrI5bz+AYCblL/8RQw2k7c8yf4zJtEE0p7EKtfruq1p9iuxaXPGv3vEKm1z8wARq54 1yKLk/q+MuxSq4MiPBZKhuEtCeOGryL4Xi93FTztjdJ2/QSfFYsbXVJtmUKnm4yt7EAm wk2Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.219.38 with SMTP id pl6mr5343120pac.59.1375374376056; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.12.161 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130801085913.0d161b80@resistor.net> References: <81B94276-0050-434D-8451-26068E199CA5@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130801075701.0d1d3398@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130801085913.0d161b80@resistor.net> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 09:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: SM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmsTmu/k45jzaNaakAuyNawkOzwZhDvHK5wrwzK3kpLQ6JLnt6aoEIZHWvBUwBR5bHO6HUM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 08:45:27 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Yoav Nir Subject: Re: [Diversity] Loud humming is subject to cultural bias (was: 6tsch BoF) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:26:21 -0000 Hi, I meant that it is difficult to remain anonymous when the email to the WG has your email address in it. Perhaps you can point me to the RFC 2026 text (or other RFC) that says something about protecting the disclosure of the identity of the person expressing agreement or disagreement with some question asked in a WG meeting. Andy On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:16 AM, SM wrote: > Hi Andy, > At 08:35 01-08-2013, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> I was not aware that maintaining anonymity was a goal >> built into the WG process. It seems that this would >> be incompatible with mailing list review comments. > > > I am acknowledged in Section 9 of draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02. Mr Housley > is the IAB Chair. Mr Curran is the President and CEO of ARIN. Mr Huston is > the Chief Scientist at APNIC. As these distinguished gentlemen have not > mentioned that there is a problem with my mailing list comments I assume > that there isn't any problem. I note that according to the IESG > draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02 reflects IETF Consensus. I assume that the > learned members of the IESG have carefully reviewed > draft-housley-rfc2050bis-02 and my mailing list comments about that draft. > > It seems to me that there isn't any incompatibility with mailing list review > comments. :-) > > Regards, > -sm From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Wed Aug 7 05:52:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC37721E80EE for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 05:52:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.051 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.052, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bccjVOeA3uyk for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 05:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC83A11E8129 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 05:52:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.33]:36453) by ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]:25) with esmtp id 1V73E0-0003jc-7F (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:52:24 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1V73E0-000HTj-70 (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:52:24 +0100 Received: from c0175.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.100.175]) by webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:52:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:52:24 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com, fuyou.miao@huawei.com Message-ID: X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.2 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 12:52:50 -0000 Hi Leaf, I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from Mr.=20 Miao. Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? Thanks, Aaron On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >=20 > The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the=20 > professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version, b= ut I suppose=20 > we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) her= e. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version &=20 > Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I=20 > suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key=20 > words, including: >=20 >=20 >=20 > a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >=20 > b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96= =E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >=20 > c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E7= =BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >=20 > and etc. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The key-typo in Aaron's version is >=20 > > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >=20 > Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, >=20 > Leaf >=20 >=20 >=20 > PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Note Well >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5= =E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication=20 > as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made=20 > within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF=20 > Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF=20 > sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any=20 > time or place, which are addressed to: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F= =91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C= =E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC= =E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5= =AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84= =E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83=E5=9B=B4=E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8= =BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5= =E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3= =E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4= =BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9= =A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96= =E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=BA=86=EF= =BC=9A >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF plenary session >=20 > The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG >=20 > Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working=20 > group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF=20 > auspices >=20 > Any IETF working group or portion thereof >=20 > Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) session >=20 > The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB >=20 > The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >=20 >=20 >=20 > * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >=20 > * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >=20 > * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8= =AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6= =8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >=20 > * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >=20 > * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF= =BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >=20 > * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >=20 > * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >=20 >=20 >=20 > All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC=20 > 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6= =B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4= =B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other=20 > function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF=20 > activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context=20 > of this notice. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80= =E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4= =B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87= =E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7= =9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF= =E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89= =E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >=20 >=20 >=20 > A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules=20 > of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG=20 > Statements. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1= =BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84= =E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >=20 >=20 >=20 > A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio and= =20 > video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the=20 > public. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C= =E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D= =A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91= =E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM > To: Aaron Yi DING > Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 > leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >=20 >=20 >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Kathleen >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" =20 > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > > Hi, >=20 > > >=20 > > Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >=20 > > is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >=20 > > >=20 > > Cheers, >=20 > > Aaron >=20 > > >=20 > > -------- >=20 > > >=20 > > =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >=20 > > >=20 > > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA= =A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6= =96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92= =E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5= =8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83= =E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >=20 > > =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >=20 > > =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1= =BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC= =9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4= =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6= =89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A >=20 > > >=20 > > * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF >=20 > > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC= =8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6= =9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92= =8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7= =94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >=20 > > * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3= =E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >=20 > > =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6= =88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4= =BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83= =BD >=20 > > >=20 > > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >=20 > > 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8= =BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >=20 > > >=20 > > =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5= =92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD= =9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E= =E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8= =E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5= =9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83= =85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >=20 > > IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >=20 > > >=20 > > =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=8E= =B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >=20 > > >=20 > > =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5= =8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85= =A8=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3= =80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=BA= =8E >=20 > > RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=E3=80=82 >=20 > > >=20 > > IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7= =9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF= =E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9= =9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88= =96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >=20 > >> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >=20 > >>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >=20 > >>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >=20 > >>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> Dear Diversity Team, >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >=20 > >>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since Paris/IETF >=20 > >>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >=20 > >>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk with= him in person. >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> Spencer >=20 > >> >=20 > >> >=20 > >> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >=20 > >> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due time= =2E >=20 > >> >=20 > >> See you soon in Berlin. >=20 > >> >=20 > >> Cheers, >=20 > >> Aaron >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB= =99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >=20 > >>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88= =E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8= =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >=20 > >>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84= =E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >=20 > >>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=B8= =80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC >=20 > >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95= =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=92=8C=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7= =9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=81=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92= =8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85= =E6=8B=AC=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81 >=20 > >>> =E7=BB=99=EF=BC=9A >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >=20 > >>> IESG=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7= =9A=84=E5=85=B6=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 >=20 > >>> IETF=E5=86=85=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=ACIETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5 =E4=BD=9C=E7= =BB=84 >=20 > >>> =E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E5=AE=83= =E7=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB= =B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >=20 > >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >=20 > >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7= =BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >=20 > >>> IAB=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8=E5=85=B6= =E7=9A=84IAB=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 >=20 > >>> RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=80=85Internet-Draft=E5=8A=9F=E8= =83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB= =B6=E2=80=9D=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=97RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979 =EF=BC=88=E5=B7=B2= =E4=B8=BARFC 4879=E6=89=80=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=AD=E7=A1=AE=E5= =AE=9A >=20 > >>> =E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8=BE=96=E3=80=82 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8 >=20 > >>> =E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB= =84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E= =EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA=E4= =B8=8D=E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE=A4= =E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F >=20 > >>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7= =9B=AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA= =8B=E9=A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4= =E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80= =9D=E3=80=82 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E= =B7=E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8= =E9=83=A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF= =99 >=20 > >>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4=B8= =AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80=9D= RFC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A=E4= =B9=89=E3=80=82 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD= =E5=B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A >=20 > >>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6=96= =87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE=B0= =E5=BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5= =85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >=20 > >>> >=20 > >>> _______________________________________________ >=20 > >>> diversity mailing list >=20 > >>> diversity@ietf.org >=20 > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >=20 > >> >=20 > >> _______________________________________________ >=20 > >> diversity mailing list >=20 > >> diversity@ietf.org >=20 > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >=20 > > From leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 00:56:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E22F11E80C5 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Vq7pLCfNQc4 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com (mail-pa0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C051E11E81CD for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 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Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:56:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Leaf Yeh" To: "'Aaron Yi DING'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:56:31 +0800 Message-ID: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6TbPgwuQujKvTuT4iFykmsDDHC4gAnRKow Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: diversity@ietf.org, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:56:55 -0000 QWFyb24gLSBMZXQncyB3YWl0IG5vdyBmb3IgYSByZXNwb25zZSBmcm9tIE1yLiBNaWFvLg0KDQpP ay4NCg0KQWFyb24gLSBNZWFud2hpbGUsIGNvdWxkIHlvdSBraW5kbHkgc2VuZCB1cyB5b3VyIHN5 bnRoZXNpemVkIHZlcnNpb24/DQoNCkkgc2VudCBpdCBvdXQgKG9yIGF0dGFjaGVkIGl0KSBpbiB0 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PiBJRVRG5rS75Yqo55qE5Y+C5LiO6ICF6YO95beyIOiiq+WRig0KPiANCj4gPj4+IOefpeWSjOeQ huino+S8muiurueahOaWh+acrOOAgemfs+mikeWSjOinhumikeiusOW9lemDveWPr+iDveaIluWP r+S7peWQkeWFrOS8l+WFrOW8gOOAgg0KPiANCj4gPj4+DQo+IA0KPiA+Pj4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gDQo+ID4+PiBkaXZlcnNpdHkg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IA0KPiA+Pj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IA0KPiA+Pj4gaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaXZlcnNpdHkNCj4gDQo+ID4+DQo+ IA0KPiA+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0K PiANCj4gPj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiANCj4gPj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5QGlldGYu b3JnDQo+IA0KPiA+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RpdmVy c2l0eQ0KPiANCj4gPiA8aWV0Zi1ub3RlLXdlbGwtY2hpbmVzZS50eHQ+DQo= From klaas@wierenga.net Thu Aug 8 01:20:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C669711E810F for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 01:20:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.349, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UCncRjhvNL3K for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 01:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out48-ams.mf.surf.net (out48-ams.mf.surf.net [145.0.1.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BFA21E804B for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 01:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teletubbie.het.net.je (teletubbie.het.net.je [192.87.110.29]) by outgoing2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id r788K6aA020506; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:20:06 +0200 Received: from 5355139f.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([83.85.19.159] helo=[192.168.2.127]) by teletubbie.het.net.je with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1V7LRF-0007EH-Ds; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:19:17 +0200 References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: Klaas Wierenga Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:20:07 +0200 To: Leaf Yeh X-Antivirus: no malware found X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 4.7, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=192.87.110.29; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: p-out:default (inherits from p:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0vKa8k6pp - eeb209767e47 - 20130808 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "kathleen.moriarty@emc.com" , Aaron Yi DING , "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:20:40 -0000 Hi, I can (obviously) not read the Chinese version, so perhaps it is already the= re. In any case, I think it makes sense to include a sentence that the Engli= sh language version is the authoritative source and that the Chinese version= is just provided as a service (same for other language versions). This in c= ase ever a dispute arises over the text of the note well. Klaas Sent from my iPad On 8 aug. 2013, at 09:56, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: > Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >=20 > Ok. >=20 > Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >=20 > I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th.=20 > It also shows below in this email. >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > Leaf >=20 >=20 > PS. Here is the copy. >> *************************************************************************= ************************************************************** >> Note Well >> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5= =E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >>=20 >> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication=20= >> as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made=20= >> within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF=20 >> Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF=20 >> sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any=20= >> time or place, which are addressed to: >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F= =91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4= =B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A= =84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF= =BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8= =8C=83=E5=9B=B4 >> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8= =A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E8= =BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4= =BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C= =E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88= =96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91= =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=BA=86 >> =EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF plenary session >> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG >> Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working=20 >> group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF=20 >> auspices >> Any IETF working group or portion thereof >> Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) session >> The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB >> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C= =85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8= =AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84= =E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83= =A8=E5=88=86 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC= =89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5= =91=98 >> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>=20 >>=20 >> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6= =B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8= =AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other=20 >> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF=20 >> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context=20= >> of this notice. >> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4= =BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D= =E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93= =E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8= =8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8= =BF=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89= =E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules=20 >> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG=20 >> Statements. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BB= RFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=AE= =9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio=20 >> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the=20 >> public. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5= =92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7= =9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84= =E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >> *************************************************************************= **************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM > To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com > Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; diversity@ie= tf.org > Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > Hi Leaf, >=20 > I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from Mr.=20= > Miao. >=20 > Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >=20 > Thanks, > Aaron >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>=20 >> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the=20 >> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version, b= ut I suppose=20 >> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) her= e. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version &=20 >> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I=20 >> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key=20 >> words, including: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>=20 >> b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E6= =96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >> c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >> and etc. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1= =A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5= =8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC >>=20 >> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >>=20 >> Leaf >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> *************************************************************************= ************************************************************** >> Note Well >> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5= =E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >>=20 >> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication=20= >> as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made=20= >> within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF=20 >> Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF=20 >> sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any=20= >> time or place, which are addressed to: >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F= =91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4= =B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A= =84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF= =BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8= =8C=83=E5=9B=B4 >> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8= =A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E8= =BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4= =BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C= =E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88= =96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91= =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=BA=86 >> =EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF plenary session >> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG >> Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working=20 >> group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF=20 >> auspices >> Any IETF working group or portion thereof >> Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) session >> The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB >> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C= =85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8= =AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84= =E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83= =A8=E5=88=86 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC= =89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5= =91=98 >> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>=20 >>=20 >> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6= =B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8= =AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other=20 >> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF=20 >> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context=20= >> of this notice. >> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4= =BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D= =E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93= =E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8= =8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8= =BF=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89= =E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules=20 >> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG=20 >> Statements. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BB= RFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=AE= =9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio=20 >> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the=20 >> public. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5= =92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7= =9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84= =E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >> *************************************************************************= **************************************************************** >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >> To: Aaron Yi DING >> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 >> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Kathleen >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >> wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Hi, >>=20 >>=20 >>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >>=20 >>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>=20 >>=20 >>> Cheers, >>=20 >>> Aaron >>=20 >>=20 >>> -------- >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4= =E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6=96=87= =E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94= =E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8= IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A= =E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95 >>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >>=20 >>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >>=20 >>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB= =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE= =AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF= =E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC= =9A >>=20 >>=20 >>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4= =BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=9C=AC= =E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE= =BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF= =BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7=94=B1IETF=E6= =94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>=20 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0= =8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >>=20 >>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4=BA=92= =E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1= =A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5= =8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC >>=20 >>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8=BE= =96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5=92= =8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5= =87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E=E7=A1=AE= =E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E7=9A= =84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5= =87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B= =E4=B8=8D >>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >>=20 >>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=B7= =E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A= =A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=A8=E6= =9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82=E6= =AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=BA=8E >>=20 >>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98= =8E=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7=9F= =A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF=E4=BC= =9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9=9F=B3=E9= =A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF= =E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>=20 >>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>=20 >>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>=20 >>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >>=20 >>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >>=20 >>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since=20 >>>>> Paris/IETF >>=20 >>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>=20 >>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk with h= im in person. >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Spencer >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>=20 >>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due time.= >>=20 >>=20 >>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>=20 >>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>=20 >>>> Aaron >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99= IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85= =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >>=20 >>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5= =92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8 =E9= =83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >>=20 >>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E7= =8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >>=20 >>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=B8=80= =E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82= =E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC >>=20 >>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6= =97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=92=8C=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84= =E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=81=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94= =B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5= =8F=91=E9=80=81 >>=20 >>>>> =E7=BB=99=EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>=20 >>>>> IESG=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A= =84=E5=85=B6=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 >>=20 >>>>> IETF=E5=86=85=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=ACIETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6= =9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5 =E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84 >>=20 >>>>> =E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E5=AE=83=E7=94= 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=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84= =E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC= =8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA=E4=B8=8D=E4= =BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E6= =88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F >>=20 >>>>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7=9B= =AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9= =A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA= =E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82= >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=B7= =E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8=E9=83= =A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF=99 >>=20 >>>>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4=B8=AA= =E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80=9DRFC=E4= =BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E3= =80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD=E5= =B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A >>=20 >>>>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87= =E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD= =95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4= =BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >>>>> diversity mailing list >>=20 >>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>=20 >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>=20 >>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >>>> diversity mailing list >>=20 >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>=20 >>> > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com Thu Aug 8 02:28:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4221011E8115 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:28:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HmU2Rai1os0N for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 02:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x232.google.com (mail-pb0-x232.google.com 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([221.219.111.60]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ue9sm15465087pab.7.2013.08.08.02.28.10 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 02:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Leaf Yeh" To: "'Klaas Wierenga'" References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> In-Reply-To: <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:28:04 +0800 Message-ID: <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6UEBovDc1TcHKCS8+K5w+PXOIvhwABE6fQ Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: diversity@ietf.org, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com, 'Aaron Yi DING' , fuyou.miao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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DQo+PiANCj4+Pj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5QGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiANCj4+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaXZlcnNpdHkNCj4+IA0KPj4+IDxpZXRmLW5vdGUtd2Vs bC1jaGluZXNlLnR4dD4NCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBkaXZlcnNpdHlAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaXZlcnNpdHkNCg== From klaas@wierenga.net Thu Aug 8 04:14:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E67411E8100 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:14:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.174, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rMQHvo-E2+CN for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out49-ams.mf.surf.net (out49-ams.mf.surf.net [145.0.1.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02A111E8103 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from teletubbie.het.net.je (teletubbie.het.net.je [192.87.110.29]) by outgoing2-ams.mf.surf.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id r78BERua013140; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:14:27 +0200 Received: from 5355139f.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl ([83.85.19.159] helo=[192.168.2.127]) by teletubbie.het.net.je with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1V7O9y-000AJ6-K2; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:13:38 +0200 References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: Klaas Wierenga Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:14:28 +0200 To: Leaf Yeh X-Antivirus: no malware found X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 4.7, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=192.87.110.29; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: p-out:default (inherits from p:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0vKaberAp - 737fe73a38f3 - 20130808 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Cc: "" , "" , Aaron Yi DING , "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:14:48 -0000 Leaf, On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:28, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: > Klaas - ...(same for other language versions)... >=20 > The community may want a similar case of the ITU-T publication, for exampl= e, http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-A.8-200810-I/en (6 languages here) , but the= community formed by volunteers sounds have no professional resource to comp= lete this kind of translation for RFCs, but 'Note Well' is not a real RFC. No, but unlike the Tao it does have a legal status. Klaas >=20 > So I guess we will do the translation as the case of 'The Tao of IETF: A N= ovice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force' @ http://www.ietf.org/= tao-translations.html . >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > Leaf >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaas Wierenga [mailto:klaas@wierenga.net]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:20 PM > To: Leaf Yeh > Cc: Aaron Yi DING; ; diversity@ietf.org; kathleen.m= oriarty@emc.com > Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I can (obviously) not read the Chinese version, so perhaps it is already t= here. In any case, I think it makes sense to include a sentence that the Eng= lish language version is the authoritative source and that the Chinese versi= on is just provided as a service (same for other language versions). This in= case ever a dispute arises over the text of the note well. >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On 8 aug. 2013, at 09:56, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >=20 >> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >>=20 >> Ok. >>=20 >> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>=20 >> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th.=20 >> It also shows below in this email. >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >> Leaf >>=20 >>=20 >> PS. Here is the copy. >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ****************************************************************** >>> Note Well >>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5= =E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for=20 >>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any=20 >>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered=20 >>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in=20 >>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made=20 >>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F= =91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4= =B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A= =84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF= =BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8= =8C=83 >>> =E5=9B=B4 >>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87= =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82= =E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4= =BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C= =E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88= =96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91= =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>> =E4=BA=86 >>> =EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF plenary session >>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF=20 >>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or=20 >>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices=20 >>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather=20 >>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The=20 >>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE= =E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC= =8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A= =84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC= =89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5= =91=98 >>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6= =B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8= =AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other=20 >>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF=20 >>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the=20 >>> context of this notice. >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4= =BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D= =E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93= =E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8= =8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8= =BF=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89= =E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules=20= >>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG=20 >>> Statements. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BB= RFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=AE= =9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio=20 >>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the=20= >>> public. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5= =92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7= =9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84= =E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ******************************************************************** >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM >> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com >> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 >> diversity@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>=20 >> Hi Leaf, >>=20 >> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from Mr.=20= >> Miao. >>=20 >> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Aaron >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>>=20 >>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the=20 >>> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version, b= ut I suppose=20 >>> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) he= re. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version &=20 >>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I=20= >>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key=20= >>> words, including: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>=20 >>> b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96= =E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>> c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>> and etc. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1= =A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5= =8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC >>>=20 >>> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best Regards, >>>=20 >>> Leaf >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ****************************************************************** >>> Note Well >>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5= =E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for=20 >>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any=20 >>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered=20 >>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in=20 >>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made=20 >>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F= =91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4= =B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A= =84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF= =BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8= =8C=83 >>> =E5=9B=B4 >>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87= =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82= =E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4= =BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C= =E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88= =96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91= =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>> =E4=BA=86 >>> =EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF plenary session >>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF=20 >>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or=20 >>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices=20 >>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather=20 >>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The=20 >>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE= =E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC= =8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A= =84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC= =89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5= =91=98 >>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6= =B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8= =AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other=20 >>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF=20 >>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the=20 >>> context of this notice. >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4= =BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D= =E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93= =E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8= =8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8= =BF=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89= =E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules=20= >>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG=20 >>> Statements. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BB= RFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=AE= =9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio=20 >>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the=20= >>> public. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80= =85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5= =92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7= =9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84= =E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ******************************************************************** >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >>> To: Aaron Yi DING >>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 >>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>>=20 >>> Kathleen >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING"=20 >>> >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >>>=20 >>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>> Aaron >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> -------- >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4= =E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6=96=87= =E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94= =E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8= IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A= =E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95 >>>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >>>=20 >>>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >>>=20 >>>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB= =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE= =AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF= =E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC= =9A >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4= =BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=9C=AC= =E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE= =BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF= =BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7=94=B1IETF=E6= =94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>>=20 >>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0= =8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >>>=20 >>>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4=BA=92= =E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1= =A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5= =8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC >>>=20 >>>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8= =BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5=92= =8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5= =87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E=E7=A1=AE= =E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E7=9A= =84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5= =87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B= =E4=B8=8D >>>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >>>=20 >>>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=8E= =B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A= =A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=A8=E6= =9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82=E6= =AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=BA=8E >>>=20 >>>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7=9F= =A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF=E4=BC= =9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9=9F=B3=E9= =A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF= =E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>=20 >>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>=20 >>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >>>=20 >>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >>>=20 >>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since=20 >>>>>> Paris/IETF >>>=20 >>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>>=20 >>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk with= him in person. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Spencer >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>>=20 >>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due time= . >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>>> Aaron >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB= =99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C= =85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5= =92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8 =E9= =83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E7= =8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=B8= =80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80= =82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC >>>=20 >>>>>> 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=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB= =84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF= =BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA=E4=B8=8D= =E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84= =E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F >>>=20 >>>>>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7=9B= =AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9= =A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA= =E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82= >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=B7= =E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8=E9=83= =A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF=99 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4=B8= =AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80=9DR= FC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89= =E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD=E5= =B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A >>>=20 >>>>>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6=96= =87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE=B0=E5= =BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC= =E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>=20 >>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>>> diversity mailing list >>>=20 >>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>=20 >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Thu Aug 8 04:20:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADCA21E8097 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.319, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WyOry2JNAV9U for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B562921E8095 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA697BE54; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:20:27 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JY7byZU0cuvl; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:20:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.8] (unknown [86.42.22.76]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00DA2BE51; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 12:20:20 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:20:10 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaas Wierenga References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net> In-Reply-To: <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "" , Leaf Yeh , "" , "" , Aaron Yi DING Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:20:34 -0000 On 08/08/2013 12:14 PM, Klaas Wierenga wrote: > Leaf, > > On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:28, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: > >> Klaas - ...(same for other language versions)... >> >> The community may want a similar case of the ITU-T publication, for example, http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-A.8-200810-I/en (6 languages here) , but the community formed by volunteers sounds have no professional resource to complete this kind of translation for RFCs, but 'Note Well' is not a real RFC. > > No, but unlike the Tao it does have a legal status. Not really - the Note well is more of a pointer to the BCPs that have all the details. So while it might be good to point to the English language version as the original, I'm not sure its needed since the whole point of the note well, in any language, should be to get the reader to check out the BCPs. S. > > Klaas > >> >> So I guess we will do the translation as the case of 'The Tao of IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force' @ http://www.ietf.org/tao-translations.html . >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Leaf >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Klaas Wierenga [mailto:klaas@wierenga.net] >> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:20 PM >> To: Leaf Yeh >> Cc: Aaron Yi DING; ; diversity@ietf.org; kathleen.moriarty@emc.com >> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >> >> Hi, >> >> I can (obviously) not read the Chinese version, so perhaps it is already there. In any case, I think it makes sense to include a sentence that the English language version is the authoritative source and that the Chinese version is just provided as a service (same for other language versions). This in case ever a dispute arises over the text of the note well. >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 8 aug. 2013, at 09:56, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >> >>> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >>> >>> Ok. >>> >>> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>> >>> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th. >>> It also shows below in this email. >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Leaf >>> >>> >>> PS. Here is the copy. >>>> ********************************************************************* >>>> ****************************************************************** >>>> Note Well >>>> 须知（或 “请周知”） >>>> >>>> >>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made >>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>> 所有有意提交至IETF发表的投稿，包含作为IETF草案（Internet-Draft）和RFC的部分或者全部内容，以及在IETF机构组织范 >>>> 围 >>>> 内所作的陈述，均被认作“IETF来稿”。这些陈述既包含在IETF会议中的口头声明，也包括在任何时间或地点的书面和电子通讯；他们提交和发送给 >>>> 了 >>>> ： >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF plenary session >>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The >>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>> * IETF全体会议 >>>> * IESG或任何代表IESG的成员 >>>> * 任何IETF邮件列表，包含IETF自身的邮件列表，任何工作组和设计团队的邮件列表，或任何其他IETF支持的邮件列表 >>>> * 任何IETF工作组或其部分 >>>> * 任何兴趣小组（BoF）会议 >>>> * IAB或任何代表IAB的成员 >>>> * RFC编辑或草案职能 >>>> >>>> >>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>> 所有IETF来搞均需满足RFC 5378、RFC 3979（RFC 4879更新）中规则的要求。 >>>> >>>> >>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>> context of this notice. >>>> 在IETF会议、邮件列表或其他职能之外所作的陈述，其明显不是有意作为IETF组织输入的，不是本须知上下文中述及的IETF来稿。 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>> 参阅 RFC 5378 和 RFC 3979可获悉更多的细节。 >>>> >>>> >>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>> Statements. >>>> 任何IETF组织的参与者被视为接受所有BCP类RFC文档和IESG声明中规定的IETF流程规则。 >>>> >>>> >>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >>>> public. >>>> 任何IETF组织的参与者均认同，可以制作和公开IETF会议的书面的、音频的和视频的记录。 >>>> ********************************************************************* >>>> ******************************************************************** >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM >>> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com >>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>> diversity@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>> >>> Hi Leaf, >>> >>> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from Mr. >>> Miao. >>> >>> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Aaron >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>>> >>>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the >>>> professional translator has his ‘professional’ version, but I suppose >>>> we can’t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version & >>>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I >>>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key >>>> words, including: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> a. the title - Note Well – 须知 >>>> >>>> b. IETF Contribution – IETF来稿（或文稿） >>>> >>>> c. IETF activity – IETF机构（或组织） >>>> >>>> and etc. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>>> >>>>> 所有提交至IETF的文档议案和工作贡献都受到 RFC 5278 和 RFC 3979(更新于RFC >>>> >>>> Which is right in Fuyou’s version. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> >>>> Leaf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ********************************************************************* >>>> ****************************************************************** >>>> Note Well >>>> 须知（或 “请周知”） >>>> >>>> >>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made >>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>> 所有有意提交至IETF发表的投稿，包含作为IETF草案（Internet-Draft）和RFC的部分或者全部内容，以及在IETF机构组织范 >>>> 围 >>>> 内所作的陈述，均被认作“IETF来稿”。这些陈述既包含在IETF会议中的口头声明，也包括在任何时间或地点的书面和电子通讯；他们提交和发送给 >>>> 了 >>>> ： >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF plenary session >>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The >>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>> * IETF全体会议 >>>> * IESG或任何代表IESG的成员 >>>> * 任何IETF邮件列表，包含IETF自身的邮件列表，任何工作组和设计团队的邮件列表，或任何其他IETF支持的邮件列表 >>>> * 任何IETF工作组或其部分 >>>> * 任何兴趣小组（BoF）会议 >>>> * IAB或任何代表IAB的成员 >>>> * RFC编辑或草案职能 >>>> >>>> >>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>> 所有IETF来搞均需满足RFC 5378、RFC 3979（RFC 4879更新）中规则的要求。 >>>> >>>> >>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>> context of this notice. >>>> 在IETF会议、邮件列表或其他职能之外所作的陈述，其明显不是有意作为IETF组织输入的，不是本须知上下文中述及的IETF来稿。 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>> 参阅 RFC 5378 和 RFC 3979可获悉更多的细节。 >>>> >>>> >>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>> Statements. >>>> 任何IETF组织的参与者被视为接受所有BCP类RFC文档和IESG声明中规定的IETF流程规则。 >>>> >>>> >>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >>>> public. >>>> 任何IETF组织的参与者均认同，可以制作和公开IETF会议的书面的、音频的和视频的记录。 >>>> ********************************************************************* >>>> ******************************************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >>>> To: Aaron Yi DING >>>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Kathleen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> >>>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >>>> >>>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>>> Aaron >>>> >>>> >>>>> -------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> 准则须知 >>>> >>>> >>>>> 所有由贡献者提交至IETF以公开的议案文档，包含作为IETF互联网草案和RFC的某一部分或者全部，以及在IETF相关活动环境下做出的任何 >>>>> 声明 >>>> >>>>> ，均属于”IETF >>>> >>>>> 工作贡献”。此类声明包含贡献者于任何时间地点在IETF会议上所发表的口头声明，书面和电子通讯内容，其内容涉及： >>>> >>>> >>>>> * IETF 全体会议 * IESG 以及任何代表IESG的成员 * IETF >>>> >>>>> 所有的邮件列表，包含IETF其邮件列表本身，任何工作组和设计团队的邮件列表，或者其他任何由IETF支持的邮件列表 >>>> >>>>> * 任何IETF工作组或其部分 * 任何共同兴趣小组(BoF)会议 * IAB >>>> >>>>> 以及任何代表IAB的成员 * RFC编辑或任何IETF互联网草案相关功能 >>>> >>>> >>>>> 所有提交至IETF的文档议案和工作贡献都受到 RFC 5278 和 RFC 3979(更新于RFC >>>> >>>>> 4879)制定的规则所管辖约束。 >>>> >>>> >>>>> 于IETF会议，邮件组和相关部门之外所作出的声明，其已明确表明不纳入IETF活动，邮件组或功能部门的工作输入，则在此准则所涉及的情景下不 >>>>> 属于 >>>> >>>>> IETF工作贡献。 >>>> >>>> >>>>> 请参阅 RFC 5378 和 RFC 3979 以获悉更多的细节。 >>>> >>>> >>>>> 所有参与IETF相关活动的人员都被认为全权接受IETF流程规则。此流程规则定义于 >>>> >>>>> RFC “Best Current Practices” 及 IESG声明。 >>>> >>>> >>>>> IETF参与者均以被告知，理解并认可与IETF会议相关的文本，音频和视频都可能或可以向公众公开。 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>>> >>>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >>>> >>>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >>>> >>>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since >>>>>>> Paris/IETF >>>> >>>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>>> >>>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk with him in person. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Spencer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>>> >>>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due time. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>>>> Aaron >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 注意事项 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 任何贡献者发送给IETF以公开的文稿，包 括作 >>>> >>>>>>> 为IETF的互联网草案和RFC的一部分或者全 部，以 >>>> >>>>>>> 及任何在IETF活动的环境下作出 的声 >>>> >>>>>>> 明，均被认为是一个”IETF贡献文件”。此类声明包括 >>>> >>>>>>> 在IETF会议上的任何时间和地点所作出的口头声明、书面和电子通讯内容，包括发送 >>>> >>>>>>> 给： >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> IETF全体会议 >>>> >>>>>>> IESG以及任何代表IESG的其成员 >>>> >>>>>>> IETF内的任何邮件列表，包 括IETF邮件列表本身，任何工 作组 >>>> >>>>>>> 和设计团队邮件列表，或者任何其它由IETF支持的其他邮件列表 >>>> >>>>>>> 任何工作组或其部分 >>>> >>>>>>> 任何共同兴趣小组（BoF）会议 >>>> >>>>>>> IAB以及任何代表其的IAB成员 >>>> >>>>>>> RFC编辑或者Internet-Draft功能小组 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 所有的“贡献文件”都受RFC 5378和RFC 3979 （已为RFC 4879所更新）中确定 >>>> >>>>>>> 的规则所管辖。 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 在IETF会议、邮件列表 >>>> >>>>>>> 或其其他功能小组之外所作出的声明，其已清晰表述为不以作为IETF活动、群组或者功 >>>> >>>>>>> 能小 组的输入为目的的，在此注意事项的情境下并不认为是IETF“贡献文件”。 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 请参阅RFC 5378和RFC 3979以获得进一步细 节。 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> 任何IETF活动的参与者都 被认为接受全部IETF的流程规则，这 >>>> >>>>>>> 些流程规则在多个“最优当前实践”RFC以及IESG声明中所定义。 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> IETF活动的参与者都已 被告 >>>> >>>>>>> 知和理解会议的文本、音频和视频记录都可能或可以向公众公开。 >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>> >>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>> >>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> diversity mailing list >>> diversity@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Thu Aug 8 04:33:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0894321E8091 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.717 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.717 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.922, BAYES_95=3, CN_BODY_35=0.339, CN_BODY_518=0.006, CN_BODY_639=0.086, CN_BODY_943=0.005, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7O0j9p1VRb5X for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D4411E8100 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 04:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r78BVMa0026351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:31:23 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd05.lss.emc.com [10.254.222.129]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:31:13 -0400 Received: from mxhub11.corp.emc.com (mxhub11.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.106]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r78BVCrm015434; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:31:13 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.99]) by mxhub11.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.106]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:31:12 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: Stephen Farrell , Klaas Wierenga Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:29:03 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese Thread-Index: Ac6UKVOKdBZajilAQTesbswMmFPEDAAAS5Fw Message-ID: References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net>, <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: "" , Leaf Yeh , Aaron Yi DING , "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:33:02 -0000 QWdyZWVkLCB0aGUgcHVycG9zZSBoZXJlIHdhcyB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgcGVvcGxlIHVuZGVyc3Rv b2Qgd2hlcmUgYW5kIGhvdyB0byBmaW5kIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudHMgd2l0aCBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIGRl dGFpbHMgb24gSVBSLiAgT25lIG9mIHRoZSBncm91cHMgYXNzaXN0aW5nIHdpdGggdHJhbnNsYXRp b25zIHB1dCBhIHN0YXRlbWVudCBvbiB0aGVpciB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgdGhl 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+Pj4+IGRpdmVyc2l0eSBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4+PiBkaXZlcnNpdHlAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4+PiBodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RpdmVyc2l0eQ0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+Pj4g PGlldGYtbm90ZS13ZWxsLWNoaW5lc2UudHh0Pg0KPj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+Pj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4+ IGRpdmVyc2l0eUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vZGl2ZXJzaXR5DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQo+IGRpdmVyc2l0eSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gZGl2ZXJzaXR5QGlldGYub3Jn DQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGl2ZXJzaXR5DQo+DQo= From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu Aug 8 05:13:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32A421F9130 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:13:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.088 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.088 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.511, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id upOdyvbhQOri for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C0D21F91CA for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 05:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.33]:52244) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.137]:25) with esmtp id 1V7P5d-0001UM-gV (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:13:13 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1V7P5d-0007b1-4r (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:13:13 +0100 Received: from c0175.aw.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.100.175]) by webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:13:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:13:13 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Message-ID: <220ab2e3c649fbd04410c0372a3ec41a@cam.ac.uk> X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.2 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, klaas@wierenga.net, leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com, fuyou.miao@huawei.com, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:13:36 -0000 Hi Kathleen, Thanks for clarifying this. There was probably misconception on the list=20 concerning the status of this translation. If possible, I am for attaching a similar statement at the beginning of=20 the translation. It's not a big deal but yet helpful. Cheers, Aaron On 08/08/13 12:29, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: > Agreed, the purpose here was to make sure people understood where and=20 > how to find the documents with all of the details on IPR. One of the=20 > groups assisting with translations put a statement on their translation= =20 > to make sure there were no legal implications (ENglish version is=20 > primary). When they all get posted, there may be some other statement=20 > if needed that applies to all of them since this was a volunteer effort= =20 > and is just the Note Well and not the BCPs. >=20 > Thank you, > Kathleen > ________________________________________ > From: Stephen Farrell [stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie] > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:20 AM > To: Klaas Wierenga > Cc: Leaf Yeh; ; Moriarty, Kathleen; Aaron Yi DING;=20 > > Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > On 08/08/2013 12:14 PM, Klaas Wierenga wrote: >> Leaf, >>=20 >> On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:28, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >>=20 >>> Klaas - ...(same for other language versions)... >>>=20 >>> The community may want a similar case of the ITU-T publication, for=20 >>> example, http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-A.8-200810-I/en (6 languages=20 >>> here) , but the community formed by volunteers sounds have no=20 >>> professional resource to complete this kind of translation for RFCs,=20 >>> but 'Note Well' is not a real RFC. >>=20 >> No, but unlike the Tao it does have a legal status. >=20 > Not really - the Note well is more of a pointer to the BCPs that > have all the details. So while it might be good to point to the > English language version as the original, I'm not sure its needed > since the whole point of the note well, in any language, should > be to get the reader to check out the BCPs. >=20 > S. >=20 >>=20 >> Klaas >>=20 >>>=20 >>> So I guess we will do the translation as the case of 'The Tao of=20 >>> IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force' @=20 >>> http://www.ietf.org/tao-translations.html . >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best Regards, >>> Leaf >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Klaas Wierenga [mailto:klaas@wierenga.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:20 PM >>> To: Leaf Yeh >>> Cc: Aaron Yi DING; ; diversity@ietf.org;=20 >>> kathleen.moriarty@emc.com >>> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I can (obviously) not read the Chinese version, so perhaps it is=20 >>> already there. In any case, I think it makes sense to include a=20 >>> sentence that the English language version is the authoritative=20 >>> source and that the Chinese version is just provided as a service=20 >>> (same for other language versions). This in case ever a dispute=20 >>> arises over the text of the note well. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>> On 8 aug. 2013, at 09:56, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >>>>=20 >>>> Ok. >>>>=20 >>>> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized=20 >>>> version? >>>>=20 >>>> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th. >>>> It also shows below in this email. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Leaf >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> PS. Here is the copy. >>>>> ********************************************************************* >>>>> ****************************************************************** >>>>> Note Well >>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7= =9F=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications=20 >>>>> made >>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF= =E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4= =BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92= =8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86= =85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7= =BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83 >>>>> =E5=9B=B4 >>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D= =87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C= =A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C= =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4= =BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>>>> =E4=BA=86 >>>>> =EF=BC=9A >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The IETF plenary session >>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB=20 >>>>> The >>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>>>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6= =88=90=E5=91=98 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C= =E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF= =E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF= =EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1= =E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC= =89=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>>> context of this notice. >>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6= =89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98= =BE=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7= =BB=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1= =BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84= IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6= =82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF=20 >>>>> rules >>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>>> Statements. >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP= =E7=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8= =A7=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to=20 >>>>> the >>>>> public. >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4= =BD=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6= =E9=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9= =A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>>>> ********************************************************************* >>>>> ******************************************************************** >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM >>>> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com >>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Leaf, >>>>=20 >>>> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from= =20 >>>> Mr. >>>> Miao. >>>>=20 >>>> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Aaron >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the >>>>> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 versio= n, but I=20 >>>>> suppose >>>>> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator)= here. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version=20 >>>>> & >>>>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but= =20 >>>>> I >>>>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some=20 >>>>> key >>>>> words, including: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>>>=20 >>>>> b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88= =96=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >>>>>=20 >>>>> c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96= =E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >>>>>=20 >>>>> and etc. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87= =E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9= =83=BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4= =BA=8ERFC >>>>>=20 >>>>> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Leaf >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ********************************************************************* >>>>> ****************************************************************** >>>>> Note Well >>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7= =9F=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications=20 >>>>> made >>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF= =E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4= =BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92= =8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86= =85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7= =BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83 >>>>> =E5=9B=B4 >>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D= =87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C= =A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C= =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4= =BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>>>> =E4=BA=86 >>>>> =EF=BC=9A >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The IETF plenary session >>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB=20 >>>>> The >>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>>>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6= =88=90=E5=91=98 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C= =E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF= =E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 >>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF= =EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1= =E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC= =89=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>>> context of this notice. >>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6= =89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98= =BE=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7= =BB=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1= =BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84= IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6= =82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF=20 >>>>> rules >>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>>> Statements. >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP= =E7=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8= =A7=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to=20 >>>>> the >>>>> public. >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4= =BD=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6= =E9=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9= =A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>>>> ********************************************************************* >>>>> ******************************************************************** >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >>>>> To: Aaron Yi DING >>>>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>>>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Kathleen >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work.=20 >>>>>> File >>>>>=20 >>>>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Aaron >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -------- >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4= =BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88= =E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA= =92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8= =80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5= =E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2= =83=E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95 >>>>>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7= =B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA= =8E=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4= =BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4= =B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90= =E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6= =B6=89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F= =8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IE= TF >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF= =BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8= =E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5= =92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95= =E7=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85= =B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6= =A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84= =E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF= =E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8= =83=BD >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87= =E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9= =83=BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4= =BA=8ERFC >>>>>=20 >>>>>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1= =E8=BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84= =E5=92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4= =BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98= =8E=E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5= =8A=A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83= =A8=E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99= =E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6= =83=85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D >>>>>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >>>>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8= =8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB= =E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5= =85=A8=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99= =E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4= =BA=8E >>>>>=20 >>>>>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0= =E6=98=8E=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A= =E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIET= F=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C= =E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6= =88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80= =82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate=20 >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this=20 >>>>>>>> e-mail). >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on=20 >>>>>>>> the >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since >>>>>>>> Paris/IETF >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk= =20 >>>>>>>> with him in person. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Spencer >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due= =20 >>>>>>> time. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Aaron >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7= =BB=99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1= =88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85= =A8 =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A= =84=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4= =B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D= 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>>>>>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7= =BB=84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98= =8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA= =E4=B8=8D=E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE= =A4=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA= =E7=9B=AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4= =BA=8B=E9=A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE= =A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2= =80=9D=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8= =8E=B7=E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8= =8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85= =A8=E9=83=A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8= =BF=99 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4= =B8=AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80= =9DRFC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A= =E4=B9=89=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83= =BD=E5=B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6= =96=87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE= =B0=E5=BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91= =E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>>>=20 >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> diversity mailing list >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>=20 From klaas@wierenga.net Thu Aug 8 06:43:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB4321E80B2 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:43:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com 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4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1V7QTK-000D9w-Me; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:41:46 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_756889B5-EF65-42B5-AFD9-908D7AA1F300"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Klaas Wierenga In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:43:17 +0200 Message-Id: <3662BEE7-C17A-44E6-B331-9D00A76D152B@wierenga.net> References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net>, <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Antivirus: no malware found X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: ip=192.87.110.29; country=NL; latitude=52.5000; longitude=5.7500; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.5000,5.7500&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: p-out:default (inherits from p:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0vKadGABC - ed771cb799f3 - 20130808 (trained as not-spam) X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Cc: "" , Leaf Yeh , Aaron Yi DING , "" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:43:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_756889B5-EF65-42B5-AFD9-908D7AA1F300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb18030 On Aug 8, 2013, at 1:29 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" = wrote: > Agreed, the purpose here was to make sure people understood where and = how to find the documents with all of the details on IPR. One of the = groups assisting with translations put a statement on their translation = to make sure there were no legal implications (ENglish version is = primary). When they all get posted, there may be some other statement = if needed that applies to all of them since this was a volunteer effort = and is just the Note Well and not the BCPs. ah ok, so the translated note well will never be put in front of people = in any official IETF business. Then I stand corrected. But Stephen, if the note well has no legal status, why does my AD beat = me up if I don't show it at the beginning of a WG meeting? ;-) Klaas >=20 > Thank you, > Kathleen > ________________________________________ > From: Stephen Farrell [stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie] > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:20 AM > To: Klaas Wierenga > Cc: Leaf Yeh; ; Moriarty, Kathleen; Aaron Yi DING; = > Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > On 08/08/2013 12:14 PM, Klaas Wierenga wrote: >> Leaf, >>=20 >> On 8 aug. 2013, at 11:28, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >>=20 >>> Klaas - ...(same for other language versions)... >>>=20 >>> The community may want a similar case of the ITU-T publication, for = example, http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-A.8-200810-I/en (6 languages here) = , but the community formed by volunteers sounds have no professional = resource to complete this kind of translation for RFCs, but 'Note Well' = is not a real RFC. >>=20 >> No, but unlike the Tao it does have a legal status. >=20 > Not really - the Note well is more of a pointer to the BCPs that > have all the details. So while it might be good to point to the > English language version as the original, I'm not sure its needed > since the whole point of the note well, in any language, should > be to get the reader to check out the BCPs. >=20 > S. >=20 >>=20 >> Klaas >>=20 >>>=20 >>> So I guess we will do the translation as the case of 'The Tao of = IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force' @ = http://www.ietf.org/tao-translations.html . >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best Regards, >>> Leaf >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Klaas Wierenga [mailto:klaas@wierenga.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:20 PM >>> To: Leaf Yeh >>> Cc: Aaron Yi DING; ; diversity@ietf.org; = kathleen.moriarty@emc.com >>> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I can (obviously) not read the Chinese version, so perhaps it is = already there. In any case, I think it makes sense to include a sentence = that the English language version is the authoritative source and that = the Chinese version is just provided as a service (same for other = language versions). This in case ever a dispute arises over the text of = the note well. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>> On 8 aug. 2013, at 09:56, "Leaf Yeh" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >>>>=20 >>>> Ok. >>>>=20 >>>> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized = version? >>>>=20 >>>> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th. >>>> It also shows below in this email. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Leaf >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> PS. Here is the copy. >>>>> = ********************************************************************* >>>>> ****************************************************************** >>>>> Note Well >>>>> =D0=EB=D6=AA=A3=A8=BB=F2 =A1=B0=C7=EB=D6=DC=D6=AA=A1=B1=A3=A9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and = any >>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is = considered >>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications = made >>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>>> = =CB=F9=D3=D0=D3=D0=D2=E2=CC=E1=BD=BB=D6=C1IETF=B7=A2=B1=ED=B5=C4=CD=B6=B8=E5= =A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=AC=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=B2=DD=B0=B8=A3=A8Internet-Draft=A3=A9=BA= =CDRFC=B5=C4=B2=BF=B7=D6=BB=F2=D5=DF=C8=AB=B2=BF=C4=DA=C8=DD=A3=AC=D2=D4=BC= =B0=D4=DAIETF=BB=FA=B9=B9=D7=E9=D6=AF=B7=B6 >>>>> =CE=A7 >>>>> = =C4=DA=CB=F9=D7=F7=B5=C4=B3=C2=CA=F6=A3=AC=BE=F9=B1=BB=C8=CF=D7=F7=A1=B0IE= TF=C0=B4=B8=E5=A1=B1=A1=A3=D5=E2=D0=A9=B3=C2=CA=F6=BC=C8=B0=FC=BA=AC=D4=DA= IETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=D6=D0=B5=C4=BF=DA=CD=B7=C9=F9=C3=F7=A3=AC=D2=B2=B0=FC=C0=A8= =D4=DA=C8=CE=BA=CE=CA=B1=BC=E4=BB=F2=B5=D8=B5=E3=B5=C4=CA=E9=C3=E6=BA=CD=B5= =E7=D7=D3=CD=A8=D1=B6=A3=BB=CB=FB=C3=C7=CC=E1=BD=BB=BA=CD=B7=A2=CB=CD=B8=F8= >>>>> =C1=CB >>>>> =A3=BA >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The IETF plenary session >>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF = auspices >>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB = The >>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>>> * IETF=C8=AB=CC=E5=BB=E1=D2=E9 >>>>> * IESG=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIESG=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 >>>>> * = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=ACIETF=D7=D4=C9=ED= =B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BA=CD=C9= =E8=BC=C6=CD=C5=B6=D3=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE= =C6=E4=CB=FBIETF=D6=A7=B3=D6=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED >>>>> * =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BB=F2=C6=E4=B2=BF=B7=D6 >>>>> * =C8=CE=BA=CE=D0=CB=C8=A4=D0=A1=D7=E9=A3=A8BoF=A3=A9=BB=E1=D2=E9 >>>>> * IAB=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIAB=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 >>>>> * RFC=B1=E0=BC=AD=BB=F2=B2=DD=B0=B8=D6=B0=C4=DC >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and = RFC >>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>>> =CB=F9=D3=D0IETF=C0=B4=B8=E3=BE=F9=D0=E8=C2=FA=D7=E3RFC 5378=A1=A2RF= C 3979=A3=A8RFC 4879=B8=FC=D0=C2=A3=A9=D6=D0=B9=E6=D4=F2=B5=C4=D2=AA=C7=F3= =A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>>> context of this notice. >>>>> = =D4=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=A1=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=BB=F2=C6=E4=CB=FB=D6=B0= =C4=DC=D6=AE=CD=E2=CB=F9=D7=F7=B5=C4=B3=C2=CA=F6=A3=AC=C6=E4=C3=F7=CF=D4=B2= =BB=CA=C7=D3=D0=D2=E2=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=CA=E4=C8=EB=B5=C4=A3=AC=B2= =BB=CA=C7=B1=BE=D0=EB=D6=AA=C9=CF=CF=C2=CE=C4=D6=D0=CA=F6=BC=B0=B5=C4IETF=C0= =B4=B8=E5=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>>> =B2=CE=D4=C4 RFC 5378 =BA=CD RFC 3979=BF=C9=BB=F1=CF=A4=B8=FC=B6=E0=B5= =C4=CF=B8=BD=DA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF = rules >>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>>> Statements. >>>>> = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=B1=BB=CA=D3=CE=AA=BD=D3= =CA=DC=CB=F9=D3=D0BCP=C0=E0RFC=CE=C4=B5=B5=BA=CDIESG=C9=F9=C3=F7=D6=D0=B9=E6= =B6=A8=B5=C4IETF=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, = audio >>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to = the >>>>> public. >>>>> = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=BE=F9=C8=CF=CD=AC=A3=AC= =BF=C9=D2=D4=D6=C6=D7=F7=BA=CD=B9=AB=BF=AAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=B5=C4=CA=E9=C3=E6= =B5=C4=A1=A2=D2=F4=C6=B5=B5=C4=BA=CD=CA=D3=C6=B5=B5=C4=BC=C7=C2=BC=A1=A3 >>>>> = ********************************************************************* >>>>> = ******************************************************************** >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM >>>> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com >>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Leaf, >>>>=20 >>>> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response = from Mr. >>>> Miao. >>>>=20 >>>> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Aaron >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the >>>>> professional translator has his =A1=AEprofessional=A1=AF version, = but I suppose >>>>> we can=A1=AFt trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) = here. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version = & >>>>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, = but I >>>>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some = key >>>>> words, including: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> a. the title - Note Well =A8C =D0=EB=D6=AA >>>>>=20 >>>>> b. IETF Contribution =A8C IETF=C0=B4=B8=E5=A3=A8=BB=F2=CE=C4=B8=E5=A3= =A9 >>>>>=20 >>>>> c. IETF activity =A8C IETF=BB=FA=B9=B9=A3=A8=BB=F2=D7=E9=D6=AF=A3=A9= >>>>>=20 >>>>> and etc. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =CB=F9=D3=D0=CC=E1=BD=BB=D6=C1IETF=B5=C4=CE=C4=B5=B5=D2=E9=B0=B8=BA= =CD=B9=A4=D7=F7=B9=B1=CF=D7=B6=BC=CA=DC=B5=BD RFC 5278 =BA=CD RFC = 3979(=B8=FC=D0=C2=D3=DARFC >>>>>=20 >>>>> Which is right in Fuyou=A1=AFs version. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Leaf >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> = ********************************************************************* >>>>> ****************************************************************** >>>>> Note Well >>>>> =D0=EB=D6=AA=A3=A8=BB=F2 =A1=B0=C7=EB=D6=DC=D6=AA=A1=B1=A3=A9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and = any >>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is = considered >>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications = made >>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>>>> = =CB=F9=D3=D0=D3=D0=D2=E2=CC=E1=BD=BB=D6=C1IETF=B7=A2=B1=ED=B5=C4=CD=B6=B8=E5= =A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=AC=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=B2=DD=B0=B8=A3=A8Internet-Draft=A3=A9=BA= =CDRFC=B5=C4=B2=BF=B7=D6=BB=F2=D5=DF=C8=AB=B2=BF=C4=DA=C8=DD=A3=AC=D2=D4=BC= =B0=D4=DAIETF=BB=FA=B9=B9=D7=E9=D6=AF=B7=B6 >>>>> =CE=A7 >>>>> = =C4=DA=CB=F9=D7=F7=B5=C4=B3=C2=CA=F6=A3=AC=BE=F9=B1=BB=C8=CF=D7=F7=A1=B0IE= TF=C0=B4=B8=E5=A1=B1=A1=A3=D5=E2=D0=A9=B3=C2=CA=F6=BC=C8=B0=FC=BA=AC=D4=DA= IETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=D6=D0=B5=C4=BF=DA=CD=B7=C9=F9=C3=F7=A3=AC=D2=B2=B0=FC=C0=A8= =D4=DA=C8=CE=BA=CE=CA=B1=BC=E4=BB=F2=B5=D8=B5=E3=B5=C4=CA=E9=C3=E6=BA=CD=B5= =E7=D7=D3=CD=A8=D1=B6=A3=BB=CB=FB=C3=C7=CC=E1=BD=BB=BA=CD=B7=A2=CB=CD=B8=F8= >>>>> =C1=CB >>>>> =A3=BA >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The IETF plenary session >>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF = auspices >>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB = The >>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>>>> * IETF=C8=AB=CC=E5=BB=E1=D2=E9 >>>>> * IESG=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIESG=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 >>>>> * = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=ACIETF=D7=D4=C9=ED= =B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BA=CD=C9= =E8=BC=C6=CD=C5=B6=D3=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE= =C6=E4=CB=FBIETF=D6=A7=B3=D6=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED >>>>> * =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BB=F2=C6=E4=B2=BF=B7=D6 >>>>> * =C8=CE=BA=CE=D0=CB=C8=A4=D0=A1=D7=E9=A3=A8BoF=A3=A9=BB=E1=D2=E9 >>>>> * IAB=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIAB=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 >>>>> * RFC=B1=E0=BC=AD=BB=F2=B2=DD=B0=B8=D6=B0=C4=DC >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and = RFC >>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>>>> =CB=F9=D3=D0IETF=C0=B4=B8=E3=BE=F9=D0=E8=C2=FA=D7=E3RFC 5378=A1=A2RF= C 3979=A3=A8RFC 4879=B8=FC=D0=C2=A3=A9=D6=D0=B9=E6=D4=F2=B5=C4=D2=AA=C7=F3= =A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>>>> context of this notice. >>>>> = =D4=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=A1=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=BB=F2=C6=E4=CB=FB=D6=B0= =C4=DC=D6=AE=CD=E2=CB=F9=D7=F7=B5=C4=B3=C2=CA=F6=A3=AC=C6=E4=C3=F7=CF=D4=B2= =BB=CA=C7=D3=D0=D2=E2=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=CA=E4=C8=EB=B5=C4=A3=AC=B2= =BB=CA=C7=B1=BE=D0=EB=D6=AA=C9=CF=CF=C2=CE=C4=D6=D0=CA=F6=BC=B0=B5=C4IETF=C0= =B4=B8=E5=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>>>> =B2=CE=D4=C4 RFC 5378 =BA=CD RFC 3979=BF=C9=BB=F1=CF=A4=B8=FC=B6=E0=B5= =C4=CF=B8=BD=DA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF = rules >>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>>>> Statements. >>>>> = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=B1=BB=CA=D3=CE=AA=BD=D3= =CA=DC=CB=F9=D3=D0BCP=C0=E0RFC=CE=C4=B5=B5=BA=CDIESG=C9=F9=C3=F7=D6=D0=B9=E6= =B6=A8=B5=C4IETF=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, = audio >>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to = the >>>>> public. >>>>> = =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=D7=E9=D6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=BE=F9=C8=CF=CD=AC=A3=AC= =BF=C9=D2=D4=D6=C6=D7=F7=BA=CD=B9=AB=BF=AAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=B5=C4=CA=E9=C3=E6= =B5=C4=A1=A2=D2=F4=C6=B5=B5=C4=BA=CD=CA=D3=C6=B5=B5=C4=BC=C7=C2=BC=A1=A3 >>>>> = ********************************************************************* >>>>> = ******************************************************************** >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >>>>> To: Aaron Yi DING >>>>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>>>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Kathleen >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. = File >>>>>=20 >>>>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Aaron >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -------- >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =D7=BC=D4=F2=D0=EB=D6=AA >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = =CB=F9=D3=D0=D3=C9=B9=B1=CF=D7=D5=DF=CC=E1=BD=BB=D6=C1IETF=D2=D4=B9=AB=BF=AA= =B5=C4=D2=E9=B0=B8=CE=C4=B5=B5=A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=AC=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=BB=A5=C1=AA= =CD=F8=B2=DD=B0=B8=BA=CDRFC=B5=C4=C4=B3=D2=BB=B2=BF=B7=D6=BB=F2=D5=DF=C8=AB= =B2=BF=A3=AC=D2=D4=BC=B0=D4=DAIETF=CF=E0=B9=D8=BB=EE=B6=AF=BB=B7=BE=B3=CF=C2= =D7=F6=B3=F6=B5=C4=C8=CE=BA=CE >>>>>> =C9=F9=C3=F7 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =A3=AC=BE=F9=CA=F4=D3=DA=A1=B1IETF >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = =B9=A4=D7=F7=B9=B1=CF=D7=A1=B1=A1=A3=B4=CB=C0=E0=C9=F9=C3=F7=B0=FC=BA=AC=B9= =B1=CF=D7=D5=DF=D3=DA=C8=CE=BA=CE=CA=B1=BC=E4=B5=D8=B5=E3=D4=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2= =E9=C9=CF=CB=F9=B7=A2=B1=ED=B5=C4=BF=DA=CD=B7=C9=F9=C3=F7=A3=AC=CA=E9=C3=E6= =BA=CD=B5=E7=D7=D3=CD=A8=D1=B6=C4=DA=C8=DD=A3=AC=C6=E4=C4=DA=C8=DD=C9=E6=BC= =B0=A3=BA >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> * IETF =C8=AB=CC=E5=BB=E1=D2=E9 * IESG =D2=D4=BC=B0=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA= =B1=EDIESG=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 * IETF >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = =CB=F9=D3=D0=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=B0=FC=BA=ACIETF=C6=E4=D3=CA= =BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=B1=BE=C9=ED=A3=AC=C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BA=CD=C9= =E8=BC=C6=CD=C5=B6=D3=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=BB=F2=D5=DF=C6=E4= =CB=FB=C8=CE=BA=CE=D3=C9IETF=D6=A7=B3=D6=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED >>>>>=20 >>>>>> * =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BB=F2=C6=E4=B2=BF=B7=D6 * = =C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=B2=CD=AC=D0=CB=C8=A4=D0=A1=D7=E9(BoF)=BB=E1=D2=E9 * IAB >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =D2=D4=BC=B0=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIAB=B5=C4=B3=C9=D4=B1 * = RFC=B1=E0=BC=AD=BB=F2=C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=BB=A5=C1=AA=CD=F8=B2=DD=B0=B8=CF=E0=B9= =D8=B9=A6=C4=DC >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =CB=F9=D3=D0=CC=E1=BD=BB=D6=C1IETF=B5=C4=CE=C4=B5=B5=D2=E9=B0=B8=BA= =CD=B9=A4=D7=F7=B9=B1=CF=D7=B6=BC=CA=DC=B5=BD RFC 5278 =BA=CD RFC = 3979(=B8=FC=D0=C2=D3=DARFC >>>>>=20 >>>>>> 4879)=D6=C6=B6=A8=B5=C4=B9=E6=D4=F2=CB=F9=B9=DC=CF=BD=D4=BC=CA=F8=A1= =A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = =D3=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=A3=AC=D3=CA=BC=FE=D7=E9=BA=CD=CF=E0=B9=D8=B2=BF=C3=C5= =D6=AE=CD=E2=CB=F9=D7=F7=B3=F6=B5=C4=C9=F9=C3=F7=A3=AC=C6=E4=D2=D1=C3=F7=C8= =B7=B1=ED=C3=F7=B2=BB=C4=C9=C8=EBIETF=BB=EE=B6=AF=A3=AC=D3=CA=BC=FE=D7=E9=BB= =F2=B9=A6=C4=DC=B2=BF=C3=C5=B5=C4=B9=A4=D7=F7=CA=E4=C8=EB=A3=AC=D4=F2=D4=DA= =B4=CB=D7=BC=D4=F2=CB=F9=C9=E6=BC=B0=B5=C4=C7=E9=BE=B0=CF=C2=B2=BB >>>>>> =CA=F4=D3=DA >>>>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=B9=A4=D7=F7=B9=B1=CF=D7=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> =C7=EB=B2=CE=D4=C4 RFC 5378 =BA=CD RFC 3979 =D2=D4=BB=F1=CF=A4=B8=FC= =B6=E0=B5=C4=CF=B8=BD=DA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = =CB=F9=D3=D0=B2=CE=D3=EBIETF=CF=E0=B9=D8=BB=EE=B6=AF=B5=C4=C8=CB=D4=B1=B6=BC= =B1=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=C8=AB=C8=A8=BD=D3=CA=DCIETF=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2=A1=A3= =B4=CB=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2=B6=A8=D2=E5=D3=DA >>>>>=20 >>>>>> RFC =A1=B0Best Current Practices=A1=B1 =BC=B0 IESG=C9=F9=C3=F7=A1=A3= >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> = IETF=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=BE=F9=D2=D4=B1=BB=B8=E6=D6=AA=A3=AC=C0=ED=BD=E2=B2=A2= =C8=CF=BF=C9=D3=EBIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=CF=E0=B9=D8=B5=C4=CE=C4=B1=BE=A3=AC=D2=F4= =C6=B5=BA=CD=CA=D3=C6=B5=B6=BC=BF=C9=C4=DC=BB=F2=BF=C9=D2=D4=CF=F2=B9=AB=D6= =DA=B9=AB=BF=AA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate = so >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this = e-mail). >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on = the >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since >>>>>>>> Paris/IETF >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to = talk with him in person. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Spencer >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in = due time. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Aaron >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =D7=A2=D2=E2=CA=C2=CF=EE >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=B1=CF=D7=D5=DF=B7=A2=CB=CD=B8=F8IETF=D2=D4=B9=AB=BF= =AA=B5=C4=CE=C4=B8=E5=A3=AC=B0=FC =C0=A8=D7=F7 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =CE=AAIETF=B5=C4=BB=A5=C1=AA=CD=F8=B2=DD=B0=B8=BA=CDRFC=B5=C4=D2=BB= =B2=BF=B7=D6=BB=F2=D5=DF=C8=AB =B2=BF=A3=AC=D2=D4 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =BC=B0=C8=CE=BA=CE=D4=DAIETF=BB=EE=B6=AF=B5=C4=BB=B7=BE=B3=CF=C2=D7= =F7=B3=F6 =B5=C4=C9=F9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C3=F7=A3=AC=BE=F9=B1=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=CA=C7=D2=BB=B8=F6=A1=B1IETF=B9= =B1=CF=D7=CE=C4=BC=FE=A1=B1=A1=A3=B4=CB=C0=E0=C9=F9=C3=F7=B0=FC=C0=A8 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> = =D4=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=C9=CF=B5=C4=C8=CE=BA=CE=CA=B1=BC=E4=BA=CD=B5=D8=B5=E3= =CB=F9=D7=F7=B3=F6=B5=C4=BF=DA=CD=B7=C9=F9=C3=F7=A1=A2=CA=E9=C3=E6=BA=CD=B5= =E7=D7=D3=CD=A8=D1=B6=C4=DA=C8=DD=A3=AC=B0=FC=C0=A8=B7=A2=CB=CD >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =B8=F8=A3=BA >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IETF=C8=AB=CC=E5=BB=E1=D2=E9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IESG=D2=D4=BC=B0=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=EDIESG=B5=C4=C6=E4=B3=C9=D4= =B1 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IETF=C4=DA=B5=C4=C8=CE=BA=CE=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=B0=FC = =C0=A8IETF=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=B1=BE=C9=ED=A3=AC=C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=A4 = =D7=F7=D7=E9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =BA=CD=C9=E8=BC=C6=CD=C5=B6=D3=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED=A3=AC=BB=F2= =D5=DF=C8=CE=BA=CE=C6=E4=CB=FC=D3=C9IETF=D6=A7=B3=D6=B5=C4=C6=E4=CB=FB=D3=CA= =BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=A4=D7=F7=D7=E9=BB=F2=C6=E4=B2=BF=B7=D6 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C8=CE=BA=CE=B9=B2=CD=AC=D0=CB=C8=A4=D0=A1=D7=E9=A3=A8BoF=A3=A9=BB= =E1=D2=E9 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IAB=D2=D4=BC=B0=C8=CE=BA=CE=B4=FA=B1=ED=C6=E4=B5=C4IAB=B3=C9=D4=B1= >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> RFC=B1=E0=BC=AD=BB=F2=D5=DFInternet-Draft=B9=A6=C4=DC=D0=A1=D7=E9= >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =CB=F9=D3=D0=B5=C4=A1=B0=B9=B1=CF=D7=CE=C4=BC=FE=A1=B1=B6=BC=CA=DC= RFC 5378=BA=CDRFC 3979 =A3=A8=D2=D1=CE=AARFC 4879=CB=F9=B8=FC=D0=C2=A3=A9=D6= =D0=C8=B7=B6=A8 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =B5=C4=B9=E6=D4=F2=CB=F9=B9=DC=CF=BD=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =D4=DAIETF=BB=E1=D2=E9=A1=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE=C1=D0=B1=ED >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> = =BB=F2=C6=E4=C6=E4=CB=FB=B9=A6=C4=DC=D0=A1=D7=E9=D6=AE=CD=E2=CB=F9=D7=F7=B3= =F6=B5=C4=C9=F9=C3=F7=A3=AC=C6=E4=D2=D1=C7=E5=CE=FA=B1=ED=CA=F6=CE=AA=B2=BB= =D2=D4=D7=F7=CE=AAIETF=BB=EE=B6=AF=A1=A2=C8=BA=D7=E9=BB=F2=D5=DF=B9=A6 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C4=DC=D0=A1 = =D7=E9=B5=C4=CA=E4=C8=EB=CE=AA=C4=BF=B5=C4=B5=C4=A3=AC=D4=DA=B4=CB=D7=A2=D2= =E2=CA=C2=CF=EE=B5=C4=C7=E9=BE=B3=CF=C2=B2=A2=B2=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=CA=C7IETF=A1= =B0=B9=B1=CF=D7=CE=C4=BC=FE=A1=B1=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C7=EB=B2=CE=D4=C4RFC 5378=BA=CDRFC 3979=D2=D4=BB=F1=B5=C3=BD=F8=D2= =BB=B2=BD=CF=B8 =BD=DA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =C8=CE=BA=CEIETF=BB=EE=B6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=B6=BC = =B1=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=BD=D3=CA=DC=C8=AB=B2=BFIETF=B5=C4=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2= =A3=AC=D5=E2 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =D0=A9=C1=F7=B3=CC=B9=E6=D4=F2=D4=DA=B6=E0=B8=F6=A1=B0=D7=EE=D3=C5= =B5=B1=C7=B0=CA=B5=BC=F9=A1=B1RFC=D2=D4=BC=B0IESG=C9=F9=C3=F7=D6=D0=CB=F9=B6= =A8=D2=E5=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> IETF=BB=EE=B6=AF=B5=C4=B2=CE=D3=EB=D5=DF=B6=BC=D2=D1 =B1=BB=B8=E6= >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> =D6=AA=BA=CD=C0=ED=BD=E2=BB=E1=D2=E9=B5=C4=CE=C4=B1=BE=A1=A2=D2=F4= =C6=B5=BA=CD=CA=D3=C6=B5=BC=C7=C2=BC=B6=BC=BF=C9=C4=DC=BB=F2=BF=C9=D2=D4=CF= =F2=B9=AB=D6=DA=B9=AB=BF=AA=A1=A3 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>>>=20 >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> diversity mailing list >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_756889B5-EF65-42B5-AFD9-908D7AA1F300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlIDoHUACgkQH2Wy/p4XeFL0iwCfQtXCiwX74LL1QHswApkxB13D gs0AoJ2qu1ggiSV6QdXSZTUQH8vSsshc =wSz5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_756889B5-EF65-42B5-AFD9-908D7AA1F300-- From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Thu Aug 8 06:45:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DAF921E80B2 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:45:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.58 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.059, BAYES_60=1, CN_BODY_35=0.339, CN_BODY_518=0.006, CN_BODY_639=0.086, CN_BODY_943=0.005, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sL51KxF7tUzp for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59AD21E80AA for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si03.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI03.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.23]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r78DibPG028753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:44:38 -0400 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd03.lss.emc.com [10.254.221.145]) by hop04-l1d11-si03.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:44:29 -0400 Received: from mxhub07.corp.emc.com (mxhub07.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.204]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r78DiRxW023427; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:44:27 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.99]) by mxhub07.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.204]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:44:26 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: Klaas Wierenga Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 09:43:54 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese Thread-Index: Ac6UPS8nbNkRErgOQPqAoY972mIXiwAACkXM Message-ID: References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net>, <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> , <3662BEE7-C17A-44E6-B331-9D00A76D152B@wierenga.net> In-Reply-To: <3662BEE7-C17A-44E6-B331-9D00A76D152B@wierenga.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Cc: "" , Leaf Yeh , Aaron Yi DING , "" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:45:53 -0000 SmFyaSBpcyBoZWxwaW5nIG9uIHRoaXMgb25lIHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSB0aGUgdm9sdW50ZWVycyBk b24ndCBoYXZlIHRvIHdvcnJ5Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpLYXRobGVlbg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KRnJvbTogS2xhYXMgV2llcmVuZ2EgW2tsYWFzQHdp 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Pj4+Pj4gPGlldGYtbm90ZS13ZWxsLWNoaW5lc2UudHh0Pg0KPj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+PiBkaXZlcnNpdHkgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+Pj4+IGRpdmVyc2l0eUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RpdmVyc2l0eQ0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IGRpdmVyc2l0eSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IGRpdmVy c2l0eUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9k aXZlcnNpdHkNCj4+DQoNCg== From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Thu Aug 8 07:02:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354C211E8171 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUb28ssOdMDy for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4983411E812A for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 07:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0932BE50; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:02:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NbxWj3xrg66A; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:02:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.63.225] (cswireless63-225.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.63.225]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CDDCBE33; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:02:40 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5203A500.9040707@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:02:40 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130623 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaas Wierenga References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> <26B0CBA4-B1C6-45F6-BD71-2A7EEE16D153@wierenga.net> <520364ad.0996420a.410a.ffff8029@mx.google.com> <16C88EBE-DD27-4B25-84C1-4036A207967D@wierenga.net>, <52037EEA.1080501@cs.tcd.ie> <3662BEE7-C17A-44E6-B331-9D00A76D152B@wierenga.net> In-Reply-To: <3662BEE7-C17A-44E6-B331-9D00A76D152B@wierenga.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:02:49 -0000 Hiya, On 08/08/2013 02:43 PM, Klaas Wierenga wrote: > But Stephen, if the note well has no legal status, why does my AD beat me up if I don't show it at the beginning of a WG meeting? ;-) You must have a bad AD:-) The thing to realise is that the note well is just a pointer, the things with any real legal significance are the BCPs themselves. At least that's how I interpreted mail from Jorge (IETF's legal counsel) on the topic. If you could find a way to usefully present all of the detail of the BCPs on one slide I'd say even your cranky AD would be happy, but the best we've got so far is the note well pointer. So translating the note well is a fine thing to do, but doesn't need to be done by lawyers luckily - if the translations help participants to figure out that they and/or their corporate lawyers need to read and understand the BCPs then the job of the note well is done. S. From fuyou.miao@huawei.com Sun Aug 11 18:41:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01D421F84F9 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:41:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Ew+fEnQgxrF for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAD411E816F for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2013 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AVX81625; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 01:34:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 02:33:59 +0100 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 02:34:02 +0100 Received: from NKGEML506-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.76]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:33:54 +0800 From: "Miaofuyou (Fuyou)" To: Leaf Yeh , "'Aaron Yi DING'" Thread-Topic: Note Well translation - Chinese Thread-Index: AQHOk2z+PcahFllHfkKfF3O8GzT1qZmKbKCAgAZkT7A= Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 01:33:54 +0000 Message-ID: <0ADCB19B1B24A64C8DC0F9AEE06214CE5030D2A8@nkgeml506-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <52034f40.459b420a.09e5.6edc@mx.google.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.221] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:00:04 -0700 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "kathleen.moriarty@emc.com" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 01:41:51 -0000 SSBhbSBPSyB3aXRoIGl0LCB0aGFuayBmb3IgeW91ciB3b3JrIQ0KDQotIE1pYW8NCg0KLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExlYWYgWWVoIFttYWlsdG86bGVhZi55ZWguc2Rv QGdtYWlsLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDA4LCAyMDEzIDM6NTcgUE0NClRv 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B521F9C68 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.196]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7HItgI0025083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:55:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376765754; bh=M2zy84NDcn5sYh3JAbDKWNplAzmK2bi6g1Kf7R7giLo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=EqrQud/EM6lYU9i79mzsJkt0gaLJG1Tur8NLXnUKMz4aRj2iRxBCyBJnRgT5+Glt5 seNVkfx6pdTE05ssHfMpQ4pVNf/BZmnftMbBY9ucPETTPYL+0Yyq1PtcB8dK99ruha c6n5JCLS2/zrCR1PB6xSRBPipUCQUJ7m3/1rtGeg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376765754; i=@elandsys.com; bh=M2zy84NDcn5sYh3JAbDKWNplAzmK2bi6g1Kf7R7giLo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=MmGRtG2BWzbt3FOPLXMWJ21DAIA+79WLGAtUrY9sbVX2FUnknWrNfXkeM1iEGQ6fY 7g1oHMt3IkJqwM3OY5FJPGRGf0CSOWrc2yKOQ3mWnTrEdLW+eL6VrA7J6DA4fHNTJI 55F2Eq+AoAMFyzqaDotww8KVa5LFj803R6cFDmxI= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:44:12 -0700 To: diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:55:55 -0000 Hello, I submitted a draft about the IETF Guidelines for Conduct ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-00 ). The draft is a revision of RFC 3184. During the last IETF plenary there was the following comment: "z (asian accent): Diversity was a controversial topic two years ago, and I am happy to see that things have somewhat changed, in that the leadership is more diverse and there is a diversity project in action. The IETF is about connecting networks, and bringing in people from more parts of the world will help achieve the IETFs goals." As an off-topic comment, I do not know what is an "asian accent". I'll get back to the topic. I think that there has been a positive change. When people new to the IETF are treated unfairly people sit back and watch the show. I guess that people forget how difficult it is when a person is new and that person has to grasp how a foreign culture works. There is a Best Common Practices (BCP) about guidelines for conduct which was published in October 2001. If that was indeed a BCP the diversity discussions should not have happened. My guess is that it happened because what the IETF says and what the IETF does are two different things. This draft will not change anything if there isn't any support from IETF participants. Comments are welcome. Regards, S. Moonesamy From arturo.servin@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 12:00:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D825C21F8EEA for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zDfk3QqfD-Sw for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x234.google.com (mail-vb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0494A21F9B12 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f12so2312285vbg.39 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/3bsecdQVMh++q9STSRfNAqT4ffkhHcQXAxqdM6cWGA=; b=umQjZrE9szFMXmgFJIogd5b1t+mHXUppQ4J58pP3vnWNvF2DOWoVztrqnFY1Q8qQoV LYee7CjsCgfCgYMYZnNMldEff6OhbgDHmDl/8pHGTOoZazm2/zoQnGSzjgpfPBHRU2Nb 7XS5AlEwkfuQuQv3v+Itma42TK5Rqh4QXxQ9zi0r7l2AxfcfG6aWRhkLRj6cEJKdiwHH 0ZAaG6ve0g6hb9kqsDw7Bf3eng+fjRbhCpBRQWaxV3lxFwhbV4o9i/NTPPqCf+PB/3MK uwguIFhALBpPtq68AeiSPj960yu9Ce8UwqsDrUYFsMXu9EX2zvwvkWAkl0z+DORuDx1x +HIw== X-Received: by 10.220.174.200 with SMTP id u8mr4363847vcz.6.1376766040653; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2800:af:ba30:ea36:70e3:4f23:1a14:3ca5]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id eu9sm375354vdb.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:00:37 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:00:47 -0000 My first read of the text looks good. I promise to do a deeper read and send more comments. Initially it would be good to add what are the differences with RFC 3184, why it is no longer useful and/or why we need to update it. Best regards, as On 8/17/13 3:44 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hello, > > I submitted a draft about the IETF Guidelines for Conduct ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-00 ). > The draft is a revision of RFC 3184. > > During the last IETF plenary there was the following comment: > > "z (asian accent): Diversity was a controversial topic two years > ago, and I am happy to see that things have somewhat changed, in > that the leadership is more diverse and there is a diversity > project in action. The IETF is about connecting networks, and > bringing in people from more parts of the world will help achieve > the IETFs goals." > > As an off-topic comment, I do not know what is an "asian accent". > I'll get back to the topic. I think that there has been a positive > change. When people new to the IETF are treated unfairly people sit > back and watch the show. I guess that people forget how difficult it > is when a person is new and that person has to grasp how a foreign > culture works. > > There is a Best Common Practices (BCP) about guidelines for conduct > which was published in October 2001. If that was indeed a BCP the > diversity discussions should not have happened. My guess is that it > happened because what the IETF says and what the IETF does are two > different things. This draft will not change anything if there isn't > any support from IETF participants. Comments are welcome. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From juliao@braga.eti.br Sat Aug 17 12:19:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDC111E8209 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwOBKGjZgp8B for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-f42.google.com (mail-yh0-f42.google.com [209.85.213.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8339011E8218 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f42.google.com with SMTP id t59so461024yho.1 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HuzSZrXMvbdCD56jhKy0gBc8+aVnlF3apgxZ4Z1HOeI=; b=nYK/8C2oD4AXHvQexdVMB9L3qH5aCpUsXgaH5ePXtiI8iirMvTKDlHPceMYbdubD6I RaW9KSBlFFw9XR+ZWm9/Os8MAaikPF6MTuttVgNNv6YcmBhb1NEhTdk+i4tSfgO2+/el uMtJnBxK75pFS4BQ5DKnCJjbmoEqCgUz2W+Wq85xOb6dIR3+AiKUnZWSJ3z3VMiUgri9 pZGVFZ0HVUeJKYu48zUrud+iKFR84a6kDqUIOx9la9Dh7b30oIanxcFjHiSgI50RixbX PFRW9BStrwHEZDsoNU1BU74PxWWlFCSYSRmhTXLKCoIlbFWxzWH/gWzpKqitiITCZBVy 0w0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmezD0p5SKwxQVGc6dRBJkW9f70xzcP8NnRDv/oHg/gmAtGtH06uM+wgxtbvKifrvYJzxM/ X-Received: by 10.236.7.202 with SMTP id 50mr4856909yhp.12.1376767169844; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:1294:1295:1295::167? ([2001:1294:1295:1295::167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y69sm4191483yhd.27.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520FCCBC.4060507@braga.eti.br> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:19:24 -0300 From: Juliao Braga User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:19:35 -0000 Hi SM, +1 about Arturo's suggestion. Regards, Julio Em 17/08/2013 16:00, Arturo Servin escreveu: > Initially it would be good to add what are the differences with RFC > 3184, why it is no longer useful and/or why we need to update it. From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 17 13:40:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9D221F89D8 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zwmjdKKJRpkk for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF6621F8994 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.196]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7HKe0mW006211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:40:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376772013; bh=i3qs2xAG1BgxSDRcjhwUmCKEHY5lRMNMLuTH8ThXEUE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=R/caQOFmM0hqi6LsCxUaryTCmirR40w0+C2jQT/D7S2SHs3t4MpLp2AEdOclPpbmQ UhBbjTFoeuDCb7GB/O8DtRocBj7kH47fiEj5SNH0K5V6dr2ED1XMHM1VLMVUR1Z5ZB Rx8n3C9erUeIc7x+Z4Cbncb8ZxdaUa0wy3g6v2EQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376772013; i=@elandsys.com; bh=i3qs2xAG1BgxSDRcjhwUmCKEHY5lRMNMLuTH8ThXEUE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=rAoyjomNBIfcWF1t2lECkxtQOy68pxWJ0zLeNQcfAbRcDiGSylP/IL64TZ1xKD+MR hy9drqP8s+mA8TQs2aq3iIeiXBr7Byum3Ip+9X5/o4LVAgl3nJawl8mHu2mgGXQImm ie8NyKu7a5ROSJ3sbmgyOUfvt2Om/7cP3BjDtNtE= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 13:30:52 -0700 To: Arturo Servin , Juliao Braga From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:40:25 -0000 At 12:00 17-08-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: > My first read of the text looks good. I promise to do a deeper read >and send more comments. Thanks. > Initially it would be good to add what are the differences with RFC >3184, why it is no longer useful and/or why we need to update it. The following text is from RFC 3184: "With that in mind, newcomers who attend Working Group meetings are encouraged to observe and absorb whatever material they can, but should not interfere with the ongoing process of the group. Working Group meetings run on a very limited time schedule, and are not intended for the education of individuals. The work of the group will continue on the mailing list, and many questions would be better expressed on the list in the months that follow." The above text is telling people new to the IETF to be quiet during Working Group meetings. I did not include it in the draft. I also did not include the: "We follow the intellectual property guidelines" as this document is not the place to discuss about intellectual property. The "Reduce the heat and increase the light" was also removed as it may not make sense to non-English speakers. At 12:19 17-08-2013, Juliao Braga wrote: >+1 about Arturo's suggestion. Could you try and see whether the text in the draft is easily understandable by Portuguese speakers? Regards, S. Moonesamy From juliao@braga.eti.br Sat Aug 17 14:46:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C9D11E8222 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FdBI--QCBoDh for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f178.google.com (mail-gh0-f178.google.com [209.85.160.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC9511E820B for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gh0-f178.google.com with SMTP id g15so591354ghb.37 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+WKBs8kTLuETpLAMwD9uFBoeUUDRI11zeUUVAloUIHU=; b=aqGGFVlAWuo5lpZo3AmIByf8YXyYVie0jZVRp8KyL2aN/MDxTAAoc6DtMH9hfJs20/ vYAQq4FU8Y6aQEDiAXj4wR8hdNwfAZN8BSKFHiewLDRrsKUSOairUuCLrICInAHz24oX IT8O3Y8IymSNACOJGIy9AygQ2MxbMPnNr7az4AJXyC4NRE9OJ6uQRibDKvB2BKfWzPXC bxaYuwe7I7vBv7czXNhsIlmBmLsfjE24yOO/h7QU+2UsaP6XdpPxx9Zoab8tso4v4d2/ FZcA2+wPG8/k0uxVXUiUpBgW3N8gvW7C9R5L+91SSbTfipCkTdTgceVYcK2tXYuTkaFt eSkg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmQVkbfmx9woYlKCgUJ9YR6OgUyHpnvaUPNr/KBIQcD2G6TNzwEBJiBGVa2Tsn2fbOxp+WF X-Received: by 10.236.125.162 with SMTP id z22mr5354203yhh.52.1376775994537; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:1294:1295:1295::167? ([2001:1294:1295:1295::167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p10sm409320vdi.7.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <520FEF36.9080709@braga.eti.br> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:46:30 -0300 From: Juliao Braga User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:46:43 -0000 Yes, SM, The draft is easily undestandable to us. So much so that I support it. Best regards, Julio Em 17/08/2013 17:30, S Moonesamy escreveu: > Could you try and see whether the text in the draft is easily > understandable by Portuguese speakers? From arturo.servin@gmail.com Sat Aug 17 16:22:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D7E11E8198 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h9ibis6uCpQU for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x233.google.com (mail-vc0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E053D11E817C for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id ht10so2218359vcb.38 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=w3VAEYR9bZ2aPeiYocgdl/g1ajUN6vIchSHPLvfNrlA=; b=C6Ab9kAGuKoId0xKzKWgOz+qqr9qugXCBYP9O/wO6YICjvpE0up8kK5iMHOlC7YoIc C6YAGNgWiEp3meRd0PS6OeqNEORv+jmylVTz5si/fnJarjwkyiSGfU9gT/li3BeuYspn 6YFPjjrJWDFSnZg4ahgTxI+y48jx//MpY9V83HTx7c2LrBRGp8V0A3rHRZ0UGHeSFxp4 TF3/7vC6l/rgqUP7sMTa+c7uy1/pjZhpmpYMm47dSi/KIFMwXEoPhAk4bv3H6DFmi0JO UhNIsEJVjwrFCp2jhF7kB5JlFBlQGKjDGK84O9dZ2SkWsCm2p9PPHWgLZWTEFsno3XtJ sqPA== X-Received: by 10.59.8.232 with SMTP id dn8mr5142300ved.8.1376781759337; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2800:af:ba30:fc03:c11b:8878:cdfd:d421]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ev7sm449133vdc.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 16:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <521005BC.8060206@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:22:36 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 23:22:41 -0000 It would be good to explain that you are removing text and why. /as On 8/17/13 5:30 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > At 12:00 17-08-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: >> My first read of the text looks good. I promise to do a deeper read >> and send more comments. > > Thanks. > >> Initially it would be good to add what are the differences with RFC >> 3184, why it is no longer useful and/or why we need to update it. > > The following text is from RFC 3184: > > "With that in mind, newcomers who attend Working Group meetings are > encouraged to observe and absorb whatever material they can, but > should not interfere with the ongoing process of the group. > Working Group meetings run on a very limited time schedule, and > are not intended for the education of individuals. The work of > the group will continue on the mailing list, and many questions > would be better expressed on the list in the months that follow." > > The above text is telling people new to the IETF to be quiet during > Working Group meetings. I did not include it in the draft. I also > did not include the: > > "We follow the intellectual property guidelines" > > as this document is not the place to discuss about intellectual property. > > The "Reduce the heat and increase the light" was also removed as it > may not make sense to non-English speakers. > > At 12:19 17-08-2013, Juliao Braga wrote: >> +1 about Arturo's suggestion. > > Could you try and see whether the text in the draft is easily > understandable by Portuguese speakers? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 17 18:08:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F96111E819E for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:08:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kA60rLbaGXww for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219EE11E819C for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7I181FU016033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:08:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376788094; bh=HyOXj3FD56JAcpm37906JCYxwNfNaX+jgUdRgQFV0DA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=WPhHS+HnV8oov5atuiV8XtlbI6Nb1PM1qOVXfygi3ow+fmGix/n1ybXPWUMCgV0gm iNqSFpycwm1Nccxa55B9jytda8kwv3BkPRy9i1umYIb3todP56Gpw21PlBj4VLkj4z Jc85OadgLjHK9dFjf7CTLq+oqNnJQ5+kjzWl8Fhw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376788094; i=@elandsys.com; bh=HyOXj3FD56JAcpm37906JCYxwNfNaX+jgUdRgQFV0DA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=3mJCorjeAmWDBurY8KsJLqQf5WFP2dTpOpoWiDy9eVzcTBzY83EtsTS7/dgQntVFQ 70iRmCNjmWS20A2Phi4n2CSyVCAdKgwqTWDLk8diTIdDOJylz4ylDCXisGRO52DWCO hd3wt/uRYqUWVbGP/GZL7HtFcPY/2/5CNukmrH/c= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817162501.0c92ad88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 18:07:15 -0700 To: Arturo Servin , diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <521005BC.8060206@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <521005BC.8060206@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Juliao Braga Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 01:08:30 -0000 At 16:22 17-08-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: > It would be good to explain that you are removing text and why. Yes. I'll add the explanation in an appendix. If anyone knows the email address of Susan Harris, could you please send me that information? Someone mentioned off-list that the draft discusses about good behavior but it does not say anything about how to handle bad behavior. Please feel free to comment about that off-list if you prefer. I'll keep the comments anonymous and I'll post a summary to the mailing list. Regards, S. Moonesamy From lars@netapp.com Sun Aug 18 19:56:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372C021F9CA6 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:56:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uPkzlYUVxNnf for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331FE21F9D04 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,910,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="82040026" Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 18 Aug 2013 19:56:41 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.116]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 19:56:41 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis Thread-Index: AQHOm3wm3PQS1wl4d0mG/THdiGb+6pmcTdOA Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 02:56:40 +0000 Message-ID: <32E5EAE0-2953-4F25-9038-04FA1C466D9E@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.118] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5DE667D9-A5AF-4584-8609-06B0C5846937"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 02:56:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5DE667D9-A5AF-4584-8609-06B0C5846937 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:00, Arturo Servin wrote: > Initially it would be good to add what are the differences with RFC > 3184, why it is no longer useful and/or why we need to update it. +1 I am looking at the diff, but I would like to understand WHY changes are = being made. Lars --Apple-Mail=_5DE667D9-A5AF-4584-8609-06B0C5846937 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUhGJZ9ZcnpRveo1xAQL4dgP+Mr32DckH6hCLO/1Pvni85AxS31SzW3dh hhPErPCRfgtffhOmrfaJJrj/9BTcUnBJrOzAbOK/bRVBfcc5IEMJFHyE9MC9PFFs BGkgQSNtqOQTsICfzGJ64NLiFPm6895x5FVnsEwS7rpRzHUnMzj4CQvPz++xAz/5 KJ9G3GzsCn0= =fnHA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5DE667D9-A5AF-4584-8609-06B0C5846937-- From lars@netapp.com Sun Aug 18 20:00:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6CD21F99C3 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:00:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.724 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.724 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.875, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J5LpaabuVVwn for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B559D21F999B for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,910,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="39008930" Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 18 Aug 2013 20:00:47 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.116]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:00:47 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis Thread-Index: AQHOm4oZ4nxaS7EYE0uWRmECFIHiwZmcTt4A Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.118] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC9E6BDC-2DCE-4340-9B45-825D5ED5C87D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:00:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC9E6BDC-2DCE-4340-9B45-825D5ED5C87D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Aug 18, 2013, at 4:30, S Moonesamy wrote: > The following text is from RFC 3184: >=20 > "With that in mind, newcomers who attend Working Group meetings are > encouraged to observe and absorb whatever material they can, but > should not interfere with the ongoing process of the group. > Working Group meetings run on a very limited time schedule, and > are not intended for the education of individuals. The work of > the group will continue on the mailing list, and many questions > would be better expressed on the list in the months that follow." >=20 > The above text is telling people new to the IETF to be quiet during = Working Group meetings. I did not include it in the draft. I think we want to rephrase rather than erase. Something along the lines = of "when you begin to participate in a WG, maybe approach the chairs or = longer-term participants in order get a view on whether the issues you = wish to discuss fit the current work of the group." Rationale: I HAVE = seen newcomers raise issues that were either outside the scope, or raise = them in ways that got them a bad reception, and a little caution about = how to get the best result is IMO good. > I also did not include the: >=20 > "We follow the intellectual property guidelines" >=20 > as this document is not the place to discuss about intellectual = property. But it's a code of conduct, and reminding folks that an important part = of this is following hte IPR policy is certainly a good thing. > The "Reduce the heat and increase the light" was also removed as it = may not make sense to non-English speakers. Remember that you are not only writing this document for non-English = speakers. You are writing it for ALL participants. As such, I'd rather = see the phrase explained rather than erased. Lars --Apple-Mail=_EC9E6BDC-2DCE-4340-9B45-825D5ED5C87D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUhGKXtZcnpRveo1xAQJzlwQAkIjVRt6ME6LO3sAVIaKWVqsNYdyig/Fl ThcV4oOK+AtuBwFs56FLI2hxzDZ+y3UpCSlaZSEdc/VP7VM0e/0BbfQ8u15xVPXi tPg7m3vRD6+AfwFf2KnRKHS2ZuDVOL9Lof0Fot77ekZ9pUrEblZsUYCmwqfYWnHw oR4NNfTbXPQ= =22B6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EC9E6BDC-2DCE-4340-9B45-825D5ED5C87D-- From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Mon Aug 19 00:10:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0DF21F9371 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 00:10:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bv4JmxGIdZ5H for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 00:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1992421F94FF for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 00:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D19BE24; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:10:42 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A71eCuQjK0Ns; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:10:42 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.183.150.105] (unknown [155.56.40.98]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC5FFBE20; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:10:41 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5211C4F1.7090005@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:10:41 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:10:55 -0000 On 08/19/2013 04:00 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: >> The "Reduce the heat and increase the light" was also removed as it >> may not make sense to non-English speakers. > Remember that you are not only writing this document for non-English > speakers. You are writing it for ALL participants. As such, I'd > rather see the phrase explained rather than erased. I also have a minor concern about this aspect. It is clear that some non-native English speakers find use of slang makes it harder to participate. However, its not clear to me whether or not there's another set of non-native English speakers who find it just fine the way it is. (It is the IETF, everything about which its possible to complain has at least two sides to the story:-) Personally as a native English speaker from Ireland I quite enjoy the English language oddities of the English, the Americans and all the other non-native English speakers:-) So, fwiw, I'd be slow to try to eliminate all slang. S. From sm@elandsys.com Mon Aug 19 01:26:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9F321F9C89 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IrRRkDJrxMrb for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A7021F9346 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7J8PXCu012076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:25:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376900747; bh=r+iW6kCNzWrFl8MeN4v6ByBPWUOGHeMmYd3YmO/8nQ0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=O52Hp5qjs0DFiB/tT6hvxbXpihQ9ntJOeM5z4NnSKWWW68PuoDMASd7pJGuE/Qsi2 x86letXIfA0RbPzGi3t3a+BBvHyOzDjlU/bYFHGKrIkAJl0zXkYMOR0ndLWE5dWgxz bZSIuZ4vPnv5p9B3HPzl2WmM1ng6AFtxZrIlbq5k= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376900747; i=@elandsys.com; bh=r+iW6kCNzWrFl8MeN4v6ByBPWUOGHeMmYd3YmO/8nQ0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=DxMCAXT1mfT4qYMD3DSCaplyKaOeEWGOqhm5g9vFs+FdifCq357Ax/GjSfNDXrCyB G338YNdOtTDy2DzIyBpljMfhn9X8BYHOny085Q1dh4fxSwYGVfx5DrGw1o3B9jMLpb 1Oa4zX8f709e5HXvEctBcKxCOt/2exewXPj9P8hE= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:17:26 -0700 To: "Eggert, Lars" From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: "" , Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:26:12 -0000 Hi Lars, At 20:00 18-08-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >I think we want to rephrase rather than erase. Something along the >lines of "when you begin to participate in a WG, maybe approach the >chairs or longer-term participants in order get a view on whether >the issues you wish to discuss fit the current work of the group." >Rationale: I HAVE seen newcomers raise issues that were either >outside the scope, or raise them in ways that got them a bad >reception, and a little caution about how to get the best result is IMO good. I would prefer if the above is part of the Newcomers tutorial and/or the Tao instead of a guideline for conduct. One of the principles of conduct is: "IETF participants come from diverse origins and backgrounds and are equipped with multiple capabilities and ideals. Regardless of these individual differences, participants treat their colleagues with respect as person" The bad reception does not seem in line with the above. Your advice (see quoted text) is better. However, that raises the question of whether there should also be guidance for non-newcomers so that they do not say unpleasant things. You mentioned that you have seen newcomers raise issues that are outside the scope. The text from the draft is from a RFC which has been available for years. As the issue happened despite that I would read it as meaning that that RFC and the draft is/will be ineffective. >But it's a code of conduct, and reminding folks that an important >part of this is following hte IPR policy is certainly a good thing. Shouldn't that code of conduct be more about attribution instead of legal rules? For example, the text I am using in the draft comes from a document written by another person. It would not be appropriate for me to take credit for that text. If the idea I wrote as a proposal originated from someone else it the appropriate course of action might be to give credit to that person. >Remember that you are not only writing this document for non-English >speakers. You are Yes [1]. > writing it for ALL participants. As such, I'd rather see the > phrase explained rather than erased. That would be something like: Do not resort to intimidation and personal attacks as they are not reasoned arguments. The IETF-like way sounds like evangelization. The question I would ask is whether the IETF wants to convert people to its ways or respect the broad cultural differences. Is the IETF accommodating the needs of all readers by expecting some readers to learn IETF slang? Harald mentioned the following during the last plenary: "Sorry about making your jobs harder. We are an open community, which is one of our core strengths. Which also means, some members do not share the community goals including diversity. Which means that our leadership, wg chairs, IESG and IAB, need to take action when needed to stem actions that would lead to a reduction in diversity. I'm a bit worried about the assertion that if we were a bit nicer, it would go away; there will be occasions where we need to be a bit more brutal with some of our members." Nobody says anything when there is a violation of the guidelines. This draft will not make any difference as long as people remain quiet. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. I would describe it as editing instead of writing From lear@cisco.com Mon Aug 19 01:34:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727D111E8211 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:34:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AlWpSGe6etoi for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D92111E8219 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 01:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=807; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376901243; x=1378110843; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5eQG4E8ZoBen7xuKngjzB6TbyPQxfF1qe3cY6bE3MyQ=; b=louYj7bS4KcUYw6Q7CWCJvHcJD/n+9pt+7eBTEHX5Dtz0nZpjbYQ3v1w GegsmU0JoO60Wj3ZRyshCfaJVQ2PVfVIMCn1uwW/tgosOWpFAai4iet5q gUx0GhRlARekYdR09HavcL7nh2imUv1WcVyIlliqUJfQlUj6OcpiYfD7Z k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag4FAFvXEVKQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABbgweEILwYgSEWdIIlAQEEI0kKAgEQCxoCBRYLAgIJAwIBAgErGgYNAQcBAReHdaRikHKBKY83B4JogSoDl2SRVYFhgT06 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,912,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="17277000" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2013 08:33:48 +0000 Received: from mctiny.local ([10.61.174.80]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7J8Xj5O030361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:33:45 GMT Message-ID: <5211D869.7010001@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 10:33:45 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , Juliao Braga , "Eggert, Lars" , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 08:34:46 -0000 SM, I think this is an important document to update, but I would agree with Harald's point that being nicer doesn't always do the trick. When the idea just doesn't work and cannot gain traction, some will take this badly. The best we can do is tell people "thank you for contributing, but there is no consensus to move forward." Often times we can indicate that they've found a problem worth considering, but that the solution is problematic for various reasons. Also, I wonder whether we should put a bit more teeth into these guidelines for egregious violations. One gets the impression that we should also require people to count to 10 before stating their opinions. Finally, I noticed something at the plenaries. Nobody seems to know what the open mic is for these days. Eliot From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Aug 19 03:55:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3726821F9A70 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:55:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lkh5f-UeDr7i for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784F211E8238 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 03:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7JAt7AU015875; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:55:07 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7JAt3ex015811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:55:06 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'S Moonesamy'" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:55:03 +0100 Message-ID: <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGRFtRqBdsC5/tiniqZwXYTiBSa2QFegc8eAVw1cyoCBMyLHAH8s7zXmeGB8eA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 10:55:32 -0000 SM, > Nobody says anything when there is a violation of the > guidelines. That is not fair by virtue of not being true. Of course, there are many instances when no-one says anything, and there are many people who feel hurt by having been treated badly and nothing having been done about it. But there are many cases where bad behaviour is handled sensitively and swiftly. You probably do not hear about these cases and I hope you don't think that the correct way to handle them is through public flogging. What I hope is being uncovered is a way for bad conduct to be made visible to those who can and will do something about it. A mechanism for complaint and an avenue for report may be helpful, although I know that many will suggest that an email to the right person is all that is needed. I would also like to observe that the IETF is a community. As such it should be self-correcting. If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the very first step should be for the community to act. (And, yes, there will be those who argue that such behaviour only serves to contract the IETF to a small set of social norms - but then, I never said I wanted diversity, only inclusivity :-) Cheers, Adrian From lear@cisco.com Mon Aug 19 04:19:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00EE11E8243 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:19:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5dhh8P81Uhk for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C0311E80D5 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:19:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1392; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376911171; x=1378120771; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=U0UYOU08V3eoL7vT4Z3A2+uk7MKFqjFSgpSI3KX2Op0=; b=gGJjlOj7e+Zr43WpXvX/sIYlENwpoSKO/7UlHyB0VDzsJaOPYx8Wl/AZ v7PLpfoJRCOnuXRAUtPiaz1/UOTsUOsNd8LiBHqGEu8rg71BV69s15cpZ 0dwf9+bx15WLekGV9A0HHs+B1qgJLOo1o1/H6aFpEiQyoqmBQHr+qdNim Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag0FAKn+EVKQ/khM/2dsb2JhbABbgweEILwYgSEWdIIkAQEBAwEjVhALGAICBSECAg8CLBoTAQcBARCHdgakQJB+gSmNaoFNBxaCUoEqA5dkkVWBYYE9OoE1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,912,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="16807024" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2013 11:19:29 +0000 Received: from mctiny.local ([10.61.174.80]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7JBJHaJ006465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:19:21 GMT Message-ID: <5211FF33.10607@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:19:15 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'S Moonesamy' Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:19:37 -0000 Adrian, On 8/19/13 12:55 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > SM, > >> Nobody says anything when there is a violation of the >> guidelines. > That is not fair by virtue of not being true. > > Of course, there are many instances when no-one says anything, and there are > many people who feel hurt by having been treated badly and nothing having been > done about it. > > But there are many cases where bad behaviour is handled sensitively and swiftly. > You probably do not hear about these cases and I hope you don't think that the > correct way to handle them is through public flogging. > > What I hope is being uncovered is a way for bad conduct to be made visible to > those who can and will do something about it. A mechanism for complaint and an > avenue for report may be helpful, although I know that many will suggest that an > email to the right person is all that is needed. With you, so far. > > I would also like to observe that the IETF is a community. As such it should be > self-correcting. If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the > very first step should be for the community to act. (And, yes, there will be > those who argue that such behaviour only serves to contract the IETF to a small > set of social norms - but then, I never said I wanted diversity, only > inclusivity :-) > What does this mean, concretely? Eliot From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Aug 19 04:34:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A81111E8252 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:34:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ATP6CW-flz+i for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EB611E824C for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7JBXw99018368; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:33:58 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7JBXuBK018357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:33:57 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Eliot Lear'" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> <5211FF33.10607@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5211FF33.10607@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:33:56 +0100 Message-ID: <050e01ce9ccf$fe51a550$faf4eff0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGRFtRqBdsC5/tiniqZwXYTiBSa2QFegc8eAVw1cyoCBMyLHAH8s7zXAfUACjsCu20lh5m8C4OQ Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'S Moonesamy' Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:34:30 -0000 > > I would also like to observe that the IETF is a community. As such = it should be > > self-correcting. If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public = forum, the > > very first step should be for the community to act. (And, yes, there = will be > > those who argue that such behaviour only serves to contract the IETF = to a small > > set of social norms - but then, I never said I wanted diversity, = only > > inclusivity :-) >=20 > What does this mean, concretely? If you, as a member of the IETF community, see someone violating what is = documented as a code of conduct or what you consider to be the norms of = reasonable behaviour, it is your responsibility to step in (gently, = politely) and stop the misconduct. If you are unable or feel unable to = do so, it is your responsibility to report the misconduct so that it is = handled. And my parentheses refer to the fact that a community that is = self-administering in this way may well tend towards inward-looking. = Behavioural differences introduced by newcomers may be rejected by a = conservative community. But then, I say, diversity of behaviour is not = an aim (indeed, such would be antithetical to guidelines of conduct). = The aim, IMHO, is unfettered access (i.e., inclusivity) to all within = the aims of the IETF and within the rules and guidance for conduct that = we set out. Ciao, Adrian From lear@cisco.com Mon Aug 19 04:39:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA4E11E824A for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EezFV9l0G1BK for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A1111E8241 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:39:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1660; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1376912392; x=1378121992; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S6SarYHa6BXV2ztzND5KvQJHpvmmEPT9G3R1WTjEHtM=; b=YlDRu+5tSo6Sewc5nL4YuxnmwSI2IuiGGOGvtV+j/cqnJPgzDCKUNiG0 K3uQKMwCXrDLBIK7Eb5pnmcr80/skc0B/iuhumXBVcyQqI1DDJo+iFm3o 3NXSZnc5gxZRQYcySonn25+IV3EOCSQYhg4LuaxR9GUyUqASlrvBCfTMf s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMFAKEDElKQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABbgweEILwWgSEWdIIkAQEBBCNVARALGAICBRYLAgIJAwIBAgErGhMBBwEBEId8pDuQf4EpjzcHFoJSgSoDl2SRVYFhgT06 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,913,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="158623089" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2013 11:39:51 +0000 Received: from mctiny.local ([10.61.174.80]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7JBdn7W030175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:39:49 GMT Message-ID: <52120405.6090807@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:39:49 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> <5211FF33.10607@cisco.com> <050e01ce9ccf$fe51a550$faf4eff0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <050e01ce9ccf$fe51a550$faf4eff0$@olddog.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'S Moonesamy' Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:39:59 -0000 On 8/19/13 1:33 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> I would also like to observe that the IETF is a community. As such it should be >>> self-correcting. If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the >>> very first step should be for the community to act. (And, yes, there will be >>> those who argue that such behaviour only serves to contract the IETF to a small >>> set of social norms - but then, I never said I wanted diversity, only >>> inclusivity :-) >> What does this mean, concretely? > If you, as a member of the IETF community, see someone violating what is documented as a code of conduct or what you consider to be the norms of reasonable behaviour, it is your responsibility to step in (gently, politely) and stop the misconduct. If you are unable or feel unable to do so, it is your responsibility to report the misconduct so that it is handled. Perhaps it would be useful to add a few words about this into the doc, and perhaps just so many words. > > And my parentheses refer to the fact that a community that is self-administering in this way may well tend towards inward-looking. Behavioural differences introduced by newcomers may be rejected by a conservative community. But then, I say, diversity of behaviour is not an aim (indeed, such would be antithetical to guidelines of conduct). The aim, IMHO, is unfettered access (i.e., inclusivity) to all within the aims of the IETF and within the rules and guidance for conduct that we set out. > I agree on the whole, although I would use different words. I think what you are saying is that inclusivity serves the long term aims of the organization. Eliot From sm@elandsys.com Mon Aug 19 05:58:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FBE11E80C5 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:58:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g4p3zB3dTTsR for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68F021F9C55 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7JCw2iE014548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 05:58:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376917097; bh=a4dqa/2t+GviS+ItK/f5HJL+U346VjssLec4tO86xc8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=yxP85k6Zptea4lnR1o+sWxWeGTSe+sF0coePVo0/QtwqkJVfHTOaXqbawijRrIcon sfH1hIIFFbiDTLMW5ocvQkCusLKWyHzFq15Kno9i2LtW7YmS8oBfhr/OpOYJckKKMp vdp4dUezhUqO8kCYba5h3eqG7u5AYCWWcTfLzdmk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376917097; i=@elandsys.com; bh=a4dqa/2t+GviS+ItK/f5HJL+U346VjssLec4tO86xc8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=cJIlcNSdTPd/uYMBc4KIr8ZXq3AgSK919odrDeJdPHDr3emrWv8fQZCBpvRDxlW+2 0Oom4DJfIO17THr0a7lL5XGtxyhb+X8p9yDE/bnY5MUQaSl+zjhK3LAG9T2q/SfdZ0 junWiuL/vDCIRk27aCoamiqA4rEaX51PsP4v+4Dw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130819035556.0d74dd20@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:42:37 -0700 To: Eliot Lear From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <5211D869.7010001@cisco.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <5211D869.7010001@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga , "Eggert, Lars" , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:58:28 -0000 Hi Eliot, At 01:33 19-08-2013, Eliot Lear wrote: >I think this is an important document to update, but I would agree with >Harald's point that being nicer doesn't always do the trick. When the >idea just doesn't work and cannot gain traction, some will take this >badly. The best we can do is tell people "thank you for contributing, >but there is no consensus to move forward." Often times we can indicate >that they've found a problem worth considering, but that the solution is >problematic for various reasons. Yes. >Also, I wonder whether we should put a bit more teeth into these >guidelines for egregious violations. One gets the impression that we >should also require people to count to 10 before stating their >opinions. Finally, I noticed something at the plenaries. Nobody seems >to know what the open mic is for these days. Someone mentioned off-list that the draft discusses about good behavior but it does not say anything about how to handle bad behavior. That sounds similar to the "a bit more teeth into these guidelines" (see quoted text). The "count to 10" is good advice. It is possible to request the suspension of posting privileges. Let me add text about that in the next revision of the draft to start the discussion. I agree with the comment about the open mic. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Mon Aug 19 06:39:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246D411E8272 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:39:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ww7UXJciS1TF for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CC811E826D for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7JDd7HQ017628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:39:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376919560; bh=TOh1xNxsLpAc1e/sbEcp8eYCn0KW3y7w4oyRkeiYBOc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=hU/WyxsHW1u36CWetDFc0Sm00iXdRnRXMRoUTYhU8LN7y4YPjdk39VI/ZzlUT3Iuc hwduz0r9hOfPD5mTVs661proxfDWrVYf2u5ZUoU/TAlp49KNu5RYu80f4JTLwiGUlu nTgZfl1Ky3aUPycYpn1IAaQHIZZOooF+5W8prPAw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376919560; i=@elandsys.com; bh=TOh1xNxsLpAc1e/sbEcp8eYCn0KW3y7w4oyRkeiYBOc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=FrF4/5gj1dSFIhMxOtnVxR7RkDPLyt5XZXbxufIxurd+fbO8pCjaptfm3ENJ/+53+ +WTvs15zgcIAd7z7xlZqalbYjr293xgHKCvKnl/UqnhdYowr2lG2OTG66PBg9M7CIo EXqxSeEsRakoIDzUPEqzUnXOlD6lislP10DIujkw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130819044319.0c8d4c48@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 06:28:54 -0700 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <04f901ce9cca$90f1b6d0$b2d52470$@olddog.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:39:23 -0000 Hi Adrian, At 03:55 19-08-2013, Adrian Farrel wrote: >That is not fair by virtue of not being true. Ok. >Of course, there are many instances when no-one says anything, and there are >many people who feel hurt by having been treated badly and nothing having been >done about it. I was talking to a person (outside the IETF) and she mentioned that she did not have any friends. I asked why. She told me that she was being bullied and how it felt. It is only when things go really wrong that people realize that they should have done something about it. >But there are many cases where bad behaviour is handled sensitively >and swiftly. >You probably do not hear about these cases and I hope you don't think that the >correct way to handle them is through public flogging. I am not suggesting public flogging. There are various ways to say "please do not do that". >What I hope is being uncovered is a way for bad conduct to be made visible to >those who can and will do something about it. A mechanism for complaint and an >avenue for report may be helpful, although I know that many will >suggest that an >email to the right person is all that is needed. Yes. A person would be more comfortable sending a message to someone who is approachable instead of sending it to the right person. >I would also like to observe that the IETF is a community. As such >it should be >self-correcting. If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the >very first step should be for the community to act. (And, yes, there will be >those who argue that such behaviour only serves to contract the IETF >to a small >set of social norms - but then, I never said I wanted diversity, only >inclusivity :-) Yes. At 04:33 19-08-2013, Adrian Farrel wrote: >If you, as a member of the IETF community, see someone violating >what is documented as a code of conduct or what you consider to be >the norms of reasonable behaviour, it is your responsibility to step >in (gently, politely) and stop the misconduct. If you are unable or >feel unable to do so, it is your responsibility to report the >misconduct so that it is handled. I like the above text. >And my parentheses refer to the fact that a community that is >self-administering in this way may well tend towards inward-looking. >Behavioural differences introduced by newcomers may be rejected by a >conservative community. But then, I say, diversity of behaviour is >not an aim (indeed, such would be antithetical to guidelines of >conduct). The aim, IMHO, is unfettered access (i.e., inclusivity) to >all within the aims of the IETF and within the rules and guidance >for conduct that we set out. Agreed. Regards, S. Moonesamy From arturo.servin@gmail.com Mon Aug 19 07:26:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE3F11E8271 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hG8ouqT-Q-j1 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x22a.google.com (mail-ye0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978A211E8282 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f170.google.com with SMTP id m7so124358yen.1 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fU2G+LfARlsLxgJbiL53fSv23D6bi6wKkR6NxOko1Xo=; b=lhosejqUoTFtNeGN+ZvCI3hzzDs7sO2bl28INlwmGpSHZ8hT2cFLq1UUeW8UUrPh2E cXq2SoTCsUtyTdj1HEddqZMKRO7zll2XQ2ltUGfFNV7Aq7Md0QVfGZEocew/nN1fgX5Z 3d0fkBEhXH98U5ffTmM/vt9qNqswp1hMDH1fmHIq8lJcQ5c1fk6VJCK4i2aqnS9SWwXX jwP/XuQOCurbpchcoTCJ4rM+DIJUOM21/xmkAH0xBufqOZKO+WmySx+meCy2MAODT0T4 Rtg/fPZVcfPRNvAyD+lfJSVG1XQGceq0n/Tt/+yqOj4YcjIoaNruEU5Q2PbaqLoch2a3 +rzg== X-Received: by 10.236.161.165 with SMTP id w25mr536471yhk.96.1376922389095; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (r190-64-26-200.su-static.adinet.com.uy. [190.64.26.200]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s9sm14111529yhb.9.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 07:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52122B11.9020105@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:26:25 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <521005BC.8060206@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817162501.0c92ad88@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817162501.0c92ad88@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:26:31 -0000 I think that you need to have in the main text, in the intro for example. As mentioned, it is an important document and we need to know why we need to update it. Also, as Lars mentioned, the text need to find a balance between encouraging new participants to speak but doing it appropriately. Regards, as On 8/17/13 10:07 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > At 16:22 17-08-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: >> It would be good to explain that you are removing text and why. > > Yes. I'll add the explanation in an appendix. > > If anyone knows the email address of Susan Harris, could you please > send me that information? > > Someone mentioned off-list that the draft discusses about good > behavior but it does not say anything about how to handle bad > behavior. Please feel free to comment about that off-list if you > prefer. I'll keep the comments anonymous and I'll post a summary to > the mailing list. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy From suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com Mon Aug 19 11:01:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C07221F9A94 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sL1sk0bUb0qH for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711F321F99F4 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 11:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7fe28e000000d82-27-52125d5d4ed7 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 45.B1.03458.D5D52125; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:01:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [142.133.113.185] (147.117.188.135) by smtps-am.internal.ericsson.com (147.117.188.93) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:01:01 -0400 Message-ID: <52125CBF.5050900@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:58:23 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [147.117.188.135] X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrG5srFCQwdRjNhbXbq9gsXjVf5PV gcnj3puPTB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpoPvmeseC+WMWz6e1MDYzNQl2MnBwSAiYS 7+9NY4WwxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJRR4srJyYwQzk5Gia7eJSwgVbwC2hL/T98AquLgYBFQlVj+ zAEkzAY0aMPOz0wgtqhAmMT9c4eYIMoFJU7OfMICUi4ioCaxb2Y6SJhZQELi9ZrVjCC2sEC0 RNu7f8wgtpCArcS15nlsIDangJ1E1/RTLBC3SUpsW3SMHaJXT2LK1RZGCFteYvvbOVC9mhJb 13xnBVklIaAssWNG4gRG4VlIjpiFpHsWku4FjMyrGDlKi1PLctONDDcxAgP4mASb4w7GBZ8s DzFKc7AoifNu0DsTKCSQnliSmp2aWpBaFF9UmpNafIiRiYNTqoFxQ1N166JchSf7xJm7InPP r1SQuttwTqjpcHbhpIc1G1o8q3RUsw3PH74Qq+196o3e12XLl1+KXF9jkvcn7eeb1Tes/I9f +L5350KF7proTe9iPsWk7ndlZV/tlyoo5M1opJnIUMbQ0huR0/rB+4RG32u1J9s8XpyL3Pzw o+nZG/NC78RmJJ1RYinOSDTUYi4qTgQAxMdnoS4CAAA= Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:01:07 -0000 Hi SM, Thanks for writing this draft. I do have a few comments myself, and I agree with Arturo's comments about describing why the changes are being made. * Section 2 Point 1. I think speaking slowly and clearly is certainly of value and should be retained as BCP. * Section 2 Point 3. What does "think globally" mean here. It probably merits some explanatory text. Otherwise it looks like just a buzzword. * Section 2 Point 4. * I don't think this text is really true anymore. "This may represent a challenge for newcomers, as email archives can be difficult to locate and search." The tools page for the working group http://tools.ietf.org/wg// contains at the top a navigation link for the list archives as well as a search box (the datatracker page contains the link to the archive but no search feature). Now you might argue that the tools page is not official, but we can also work on a search feature for the datatracker in the next codesprint. Maybe such information should feature prominently in the newcomer tutorials. * Probably worth adding the WG charter as reading material. Lot of the misunderstanding of the newcomers relates to the charter and milestones. Thanks Suresh On 08/17/2013 02:44 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hello, > > I submitted a draft about the IETF Guidelines for Conduct ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-00 ). > The draft is a revision of RFC 3184. > > During the last IETF plenary there was the following comment: > > "z (asian accent): Diversity was a controversial topic two years > ago, and I am happy to see that things have somewhat changed, in > that the leadership is more diverse and there is a diversity > project in action. The IETF is about connecting networks, and > bringing in people from more parts of the world will help achieve > the IETFs goals." > > As an off-topic comment, I do not know what is an "asian accent". I'll > get back to the topic. I think that there has been a positive change. > When people new to the IETF are treated unfairly people sit back and > watch the show. I guess that people forget how difficult it is when a > person is new and that person has to grasp how a foreign culture works. > > There is a Best Common Practices (BCP) about guidelines for conduct > which was published in October 2001. If that was indeed a BCP the > diversity discussions should not have happened. My guess is that it > happened because what the IETF says and what the IETF does are two > different things. This draft will not change anything if there isn't > any support from IETF participants. Comments are welcome. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From sm@elandsys.com Mon Aug 19 16:48:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B2111E81D6 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:48:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZT-FA4HpmPwz for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B4B11E818D for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.234.26]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7JNmSFS000073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:48:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1376956120; bh=gCy37LHpnVIrH/qe56Oe9eyc25MM+4X80kzCozErfoY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=G1dAI5O6x7pu8YTqacvilHMTxIdEMn4mGVaF/rrynj1jT6ACYiDPCAiVZiWSkQ9k0 barZ1f6QM240iOur73T5Ou7Z41xFIiZe6HCS+Q56B0qUVMIiFss0PgKA766tjt3WYW RhvYdR8JP0BfYzSoq1XcWhs31/+AiV89ycCDXrzw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1376956120; i=@elandsys.com; bh=gCy37LHpnVIrH/qe56Oe9eyc25MM+4X80kzCozErfoY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=f1gVTZXO3jGLEU8AWR9wbHEmuAUtfTF7wmx51Y04pm42shAvj+1EH/Vfg1srDgLXn VtXeiodJWdsSLFdCpwFzh3Qd+j2zjA/oS4OcumYQi73pb9QQ2brdUFpq8IhPbeZgJx 0biR59ZNLr6ye4YI7e7f8MvZ+TQOawFdUQ+iX+ic= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130819131332.0c876330@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:15:42 -0700 To: Suresh Krishnan From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <52125CBF.5050900@ericsson.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <52125CBF.5050900@ericsson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 23:48:49 -0000 At 10:58 19-08-2013, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >agree with Arturo's comments about describing why the changes are being >made. I'll add an appendix about that. >* Section 2 Point 3. > >What does "think globally" mean here. It probably merits some >explanatory text. Otherwise it looks like just a buzzword. Yes. That point is attributed to Mike O'Dell and it predates RFC 3184. Harald Alvestrand explained it as "consider all the people who will feel the cost of" the solution. I think that was what John Klensin was trying to explain when he commented about the "I" in the IETF. I'll propose the following sentence: IETF participants devise solutions for the Internet that meet the needs of diverse technical and operational environments. >* Section 2 Point 4. > >* I don't think this text is really true anymore. > >"This may represent a challenge for newcomers, as email archives can be >difficult to locate and search." The email archives are not that difficult to locate. Searching the email archives to locate the discussion of a topic is still a challenge. >The tools page for the working group > >http://tools.ietf.org/wg// > >contains at the top a navigation link for the list archives as well as a >search box (the datatracker page contains the link to the archive but no >search feature). Now you might argue that the tools page is not >official, but we can also work on a search feature for the datatracker >in the next codesprint. Maybe such information should feature >prominently in the newcomer tutorials. > >* Probably worth adding the WG charter as reading material. Lot of the >misunderstanding of the newcomers relates to the charter and milestones. I'll add text about the charter and milestones. By the way, the milestones is not that helpful in practice (e.g. see http://tools.ietf.org/wg/6man/charters ). It is as difficult as before for the average IETF participant to contribute to ongoing work as: (a) It requires a significant number of hours weekly to follow the mailing list discussions. (b) The discussions between some parties is not always clear. One of the ways I used in the working groups I participated in was to summarize the discussion every now and then. Regards, S. Moonesamy From lars@netapp.com Tue Aug 20 03:41:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB4A11E8200 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:41:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.281, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoJDt7837Hbq for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.netapp.com (mx11.netapp.com [216.240.18.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0847011E81E8 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:41:10 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,919,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="42757952" Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx11-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 20 Aug 2013 03:41:10 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.116]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:41:10 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis Thread-Index: AQHOnLW9fyNkRkVll0aiTFWebP2aFZmeX32A Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:41:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7659CB2C-B211-4D97-8F05-D47A9A7C108B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:41:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7659CB2C-B211-4D97-8F05-D47A9A7C108B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Aug 19, 2013, at 16:17, S Moonesamy wrote: > The text from the draft is from a RFC which has been available for = years. As the issue happened despite that I would read it as meaning = that that RFC and the draft is/will be ineffective. depends on what you mean by "ineffective". If we believe that all = participants will read the RFC and follow the guidelines, then yes, it = will be ineffective. Similarly to how the Note Well and IPR guidelines = are ineffective, in that many don't know them and don't follow them = correctly. But my definition of "effective" is different: I want to have something = to point to that states our code of conduct and what the consequences = are when it is violated, so that when gross misbehavior occurs, we can = exclude someone from participating in the future. (I wish we had this for the IPR guidelines as well, but that's a = different discussion.) >> But it's a code of conduct, and reminding folks that an important = part of this is following hte IPR policy is certainly a good thing. >=20 > Shouldn't that code of conduct be more about attribution instead of = legal rules? For example, the text I am using in the draft comes from a = document written by another person. It would not be appropriate for me = to take credit for that text. If the idea I wrote as a proposal = originated from someone else it the appropriate course of action might = be to give credit to that person. Sorry, I don't follow where editing etiquette comes in here. (Everything = you say above it fine, I is don't make the connection to the code of = conduct.) >> writing it for ALL participants. As such, I'd rather see the phrase = explained rather than erased. >=20 > That would be something like: >=20 > Do not resort to intimidation and personal attacks as they are not = reasoned > arguments. That does not capture the meaning of the phrase, I believe. At least to = me, the meaning is "cool off, take the intensity out of the discussion, = and try to provide data/facts for your different standpoints, so the = rest of us who are sitting on the sidelines watching the fireworks can = form an opinion." > The IETF-like way sounds like evangelization. The question I would = ask is whether the IETF wants to convert people to its ways or respect = the broad cultural differences. Is the IETF accommodating the needs of = all readers by expecting some readers to learn IETF slang? You will not be able to expunge all the slang from the organization, = there are decades of history here. And having a common vocabulary ("last = call", "DISCUSS", "BoF", "appeal", etc.) of terms makes the = communication easier. So I think the best we can do in the = introductory/fundamental documents about the organization is to explain = them as best as we can, so that people know what they mean when they = come across them. > Harald mentioned the following during the last plenary: >=20 > "Sorry about making your jobs harder. We are an open community, = which is > one of our core strengths. Which also means, some members do not = share > the community goals including diversity. Which means that our = leadership, > wg chairs, IESG and IAB, need to take action when needed to stem = actions > that would lead to a reduction in diversity. I'm a bit worried = about the > assertion that if we were a bit nicer, it would go away; there will = be > occasions where we need to be a bit more brutal with some of our = members." >=20 > Nobody says anything when there is a violation of the guidelines. = This draft will not make any difference as long as people remain quiet. I actually WANT this draft to talk about the CONSEQUENCES (posting = rights getting taken away, personal attendance made impossible, etc.) of = not following the code of conduct! I think that would be by FAR the most = impactful addition we could make. Lars --Apple-Mail=_7659CB2C-B211-4D97-8F05-D47A9A7C108B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUhNHxdZcnpRveo1xAQLPnAP8C87QDORWqdNRkAc5YIzPW7tIEWcvZEtM bcU444rZ4tv3DKYRyiE70ZfbRdCbPG3c0/Yq4Ja6FIADu4ND9RGSEwdRSjGcNXGr 5e95ARIIltCWKhqxbHbz2eDMu4m0T+TzigiElh2vj8s1Y/11Nyhh+eAdmtYtRH7M 5tIi5/mwcGk= =9TRH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7659CB2C-B211-4D97-8F05-D47A9A7C108B-- From adrian@olddog.co.uk Tue Aug 20 04:16:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8868C11E8203 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p92w8K4UMUPA for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D890611E820B for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 04:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7KBFnRR012538; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:15:49 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7KBFlhL012516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:15:48 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Eggert, Lars'" , "'S Moonesamy'" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:15:46 +0100 Message-ID: <006301ce9d96$9ec0be10$dc423a30$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGRFtRqBdsC5/tiniqZwXYTiBSa2QFegc8eAVw1cyoCBMyLHAH8s7zXAW8H1cyZ16QpoA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'Juliao Braga' , 'Arturo Servin' Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:16:23 -0000 Lars wrote: > I actually WANT this draft to talk about the CONSEQUENCES (posting rights > getting taken away, personal attendance made impossible, etc.) of not following > the code of conduct! I think that would be by FAR the most impactful addition we > could make. Just to observe that what you are asking for is rules, not a code of conduct or guidelines. Not to say that what you want is wrong (or right). Just to note that you are asking for something very different from what SM is working on and that may lead to you missing each other's points. *A* way to address that is for the guidelines to be produced in one document, and the ways of handling breaches to be in another document. That way progress can be made on documenting the social norms of the IETF without being delayed working out what the appropriate "punishments" are, and what the mechanisms of judgement are. Noting that in working on RFC 6701, we found that there are plenty of tools available as sanctions. Perhaps one that is missing in *this* case is the ability to eject someone from a face-to-face or virtual meeting. Cheers, Adrian From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com Tue Aug 20 09:28:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FAE11E8262 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juKiPZwoEdJo for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x22b.google.com (mail-ye0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FC011E8251 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f171.google.com with SMTP id m3so132712yen.16 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=HYDlhX6aljrdID1f9X0JDpnMF3P5BT1DU9Rj/8tpGls=; b=bPQ14HZptiHQasAYEMn/CrcOj0xRQhV9VApEujfutfFqp3wDxAubZdBkXc3v9JFStt N4wrcNbFMJegXMt07GHkxAuDZb8w8ONopfALIjh2WHglqNOshsQqaSzb0USfKVHbiMYj HjWulDJ9/ydAVsFS9i4zabEOcshKp3XAGRXtZjLC+Dqg6/gEODrOnO3V6Ff8gpNT9RWS ayNwyJy+8QcBksfSpiW4/ycS0GyQJJqo0sEDU2BGXswVnhLvLG9Uezt1ANEyG/I+2HB0 EHLxKsvuGICm4AFyadcKC7esoxK4PAdq83HZQHEeeGFZ3AwXuJIgZK1ozOt0E4GT21Ti 49BA== X-Received: by 10.236.180.74 with SMTP id i50mr18178yhm.241.1377016134424; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (70-3-16-11.pools.spcsdns.net. [70.3.16.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i28sm2397260yhl.2.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52139946.6080400@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 11:28:54 -0500 From: Spencer Dawkins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <006301ce9d96$9ec0be10$dc423a30$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <006301ce9d96$9ec0be10$dc423a30$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090800040502030003050203" Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'Juliao Braga' , "'Eggert, Lars'" , 'S Moonesamy' , 'Arturo Servin' Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:28:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090800040502030003050203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/20/2013 6:15 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > *A* way to address that is for the guidelines to be produced in one document, > and the ways of handling breaches to be in another document. That way progress > can be made on documenting the social norms of the IETF without being delayed > working out what the appropriate "punishments" are, and what the mechanisms of > judgement are. Speaking as an individual, I agree with Adrian that this is *a* way, and would further hope that other ways the community thinks about provide equivalent benefits (which I'm paraphrasing as "we don't have to reopen all the conduct discussions every time we talk about consequences, and we don't have to reopen all the consequences discussions every time we talk about conduct"). > Noting that in working on RFC 6701, we found that there are plenty of tools > available as sanctions. Perhaps one that is missing in *this* case is the > ability to eject someone from a face-to-face or virtual meeting. Adrian's note jogged my memory about http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3934 ("Updates to RFC 2418 Regarding the Management of IETF Mailing Lists", also published as BCP 94), which describes consequences for disruptive mailing list participants - that's the first tool that popped into my mind. I expect Adrian is right, there are plenty of other tools, and there might still be holes. Perhaps if this discussion comes to include consequences, looking at the tools already available would be helpful. Spencer --------------090800040502030003050203 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 8/20/2013 6:15 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
*A* way to address that is for the guidelines to be produced in one document,
and the ways of handling breaches to be in another document. That way progress
can be made on documenting the social norms of the IETF without being delayed
working out what the appropriate "punishments" are, and what the mechanisms of
judgement are.

Speaking as an individual, I agree with Adrian that this is *a* way, and would further hope that other ways the community thinks about provide equivalent benefits (which I'm paraphrasing as "we don't have to reopen all the conduct discussions every time we talk about consequences, and we don't have to reopen all the consequences discussions every time we talk about conduct").

Noting that in working on RFC 6701, we found that there are plenty of tools
available as sanctions. Perhaps one that is missing in *this* case is the
ability to eject someone from a face-to-face or virtual meeting.

Adrian's note jogged my memory about http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3934 ("Updates to RFC 2418 Regarding the Management of IETF Mailing Lists", also published as BCP 94), which describes consequences for disruptive mailing list participants - that's the first tool that popped into my mind.

I expect Adrian is right, there are plenty of other tools, and there might still be holes. Perhaps if this discussion comes to include consequences, looking at the tools already available would be helpful.

Spencer
--------------090800040502030003050203-- From sm@elandsys.com Tue Aug 20 15:48:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60B911E8183 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:48:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVXQ8zf78+Sd for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30AE11E82F4 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7KMmJuR029822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:48:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377038915; bh=fw3zIEDomCgAkrfijZmiugs5QvhU+xFPN2gyuS8Wh0g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=DdEngIHg23r556Go+8cqfCMAdH/dQLZwI1gfJD8do5agPlVlsvOTq0+XqWeJd/qIt pPunzxeqT2w1QmVqpOOAubHYBdYtNAEp/ICYZWZXW9gynVQQPj5+oQvz/zfmvFynX/ 2O6koEPF5JesmzzxRZUdEHviPjUX7KzVIr4GaJbM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377038915; i=@elandsys.com; bh=fw3zIEDomCgAkrfijZmiugs5QvhU+xFPN2gyuS8Wh0g=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=JF3SPPBQ1egF6PbNkiCwp0fmSHLMR+9ylOk4mrdHnXVtOZOVe1wHgc3/8Vfb1qsES zZzMBhd5mwyfGwhktelHfczx+Ha6gzqb4ACfKd1lXRnE68pp8N5ZoIWK0LPEw4PoCC VrVdyVx6hUg3Qac0EeMNZm1ML06bu1f3goqPNHNs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130820135844.0cfcbfc8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:10:11 -0700 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, Spencer Dawkins From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <006301ce9d96$9ec0be10$dc423a30$@olddog.co.uk> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> <006301ce9d96$9ec0be10$dc423a30$@olddog.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin , "Eggert, Lars" Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:48:53 -0000 At 04:15 20-08-2013, Adrian Farrel wrote: >Not to say that what you want is wrong (or right). Just to note that you are >asking for something very different from what SM is working on and >that may lead >to you missing each other's points. Yes. >*A* way to address that is for the guidelines to be produced in one document, >and the ways of handling breaches to be in another document. That way progress >can be made on documenting the social norms of the IETF without being delayed >working out what the appropriate "punishments" are, and what the mechanisms of >judgement are. Yes. >Noting that in working on RFC 6701, we found that there are plenty of tools >available as sanctions. Perhaps one that is missing in *this* case is the >ability to eject someone from a face-to-face or virtual meeting. There is already a process document which can be used to eject someone from a face-to-face meeting. It can also be used for virtual meetings. At 09:28 20-08-2013, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >Adrian's note jogged my memory about >http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3934 >("Updates to RFC 2418 Regarding >the Management of IETF Mailing Lists", also published as BCP 94), >which describes consequences for disruptive mailing list >participants - that's the first tool that popped into my mind. Yes. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Aug 20 15:51:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C96611E82CD for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.575 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.575 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q82lG766XjSf for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F010B11E830A for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7KMov3n019541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:51:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377039071; bh=jrRkEQDyKKh7PSySUgsZSi31c8Cdl+yEk7daLmfnQF4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=E7X2uOpyLGJxMVgvpp8LfLDp4aBGDyeRlA2jBWjuL3oJn9jMugdjTdeo+H3r3edWC HLWjqB/w+EvuMCgVcKkEwU8g/Anxdmxp3oMJCxxPeRpmqoU0IUP1VCylPALqMIdkec DODtOp+yLY/HOk7li/q3Tbc3dnmFavCrusVdq4OI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377039071; i=@elandsys.com; bh=jrRkEQDyKKh7PSySUgsZSi31c8Cdl+yEk7daLmfnQF4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=nAe7tExs+Q6F0s1c+U8JLqKIKcMPi5yy2LqLEElnz7GJzVLJ3qcbhUJrNYt+Hr+WV hxQB/9TuS38vWNdXi/b93RbZjF0X2Sz9HdXwMMScALylMg0gxuygdxVGmYIByvSYCT tlztZdGFkokB0TV5V+M1KycCLk5ytA+YpEKcs6b0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130820141120.0c6bb690@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:49:33 -0700 To: "Eggert, Lars" From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <520FC855.4090304@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130817130354.0b882f40@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130818234116.0c60d3c8@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 22:51:19 -0000 Hi Lars, At 03:41 20-08-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >depends on what you mean by "ineffective". If we believe that all >participants will read the RFC and follow the guidelines, then yes, >it will be ineffective. Similarly to how the Note Well and IPR >guidelines are ineffective, in that many don't know them and don't >follow them correctly. Agreed. >But my definition of "effective" is different: I want to have >something to point to that states our code of conduct and what the >consequences are when it is violated, so that when gross misbehavior >occurs, we can exclude someone from participating in the future. Adrian and Spencer commented about this. >(I wish we had this for the IPR guidelines as well, but that's a >different discussion.) That would be RFC 6701 for IPR sanctions. >That does not capture the meaning of the phrase, I believe. At least >to me, the meaning is "cool off, take the intensity out of the >discussion, and try to provide data/facts for your different >standpoints, so the rest of us who are sitting on the sidelines >watching the fireworks can form an opinion." Agreed. >You will not be able to expunge all the slang from the organization, >there are decades of history here. And having a common vocabulary >("last call", "DISCUSS", "BoF", "appeal", etc.) of terms makes the >communication easier. So I think the best we can do in the >introductory/fundamental documents about the organization is to >explain them as best as we can, so that people know what they mean >when they come across them. Yes. >I actually WANT this draft to talk about the CONSEQUENCES (posting >rights getting taken away, personal attendance made impossible, >etc.) of not following the code of conduct! I think that would be by >FAR the most impactful addition we could make. Let me read the comments again and think about this. Regards, S. Moonesamy From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 08:55:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CAD11E81FB for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-3YkvRg1bvo for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899C111E81AC for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:55:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.35]:51776) by ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.138]:25) with esmtp id 1VCXDz-0006xa-FV (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:55:03 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VCXDz-000oLK-Ov (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:55:03 +0100 Received: from add.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.64.12]) by webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:55:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:55:03 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: fuyou.miao@huawei.com Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.2 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:55:15 -0000 On 12/08/13 02:33, Miaofuyou (Fuyou) wrote: > I am OK with it, thank for your work! >=20 > - Miao Thanks Mr. Miao. Could Leaf help to finalize your version so that it can used soon by the=20 community. As we discussed, it is also nice to attach a brief statement=20 clarifying its status, i.e., non-legal. Thanks, Aaron >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Leaf Yeh [mailto:leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:57 PM > To: 'Aaron Yi DING'; Miaofuyou (Fuyou) > Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 > diversity@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >=20 > Ok. >=20 > Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >=20 > I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th. > It also shows below in this email. >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > Leaf >=20 >=20 > PS. Here is the copy. >> ************************************************************************= *************************************************************** >> Note Well >> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F= =A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >>=20 >> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication >> as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made >> within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF >> Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF >> sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any >> time or place, which are addressed to: >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5= =8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD= =9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C= RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85= =E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83=E5=9B=B4 >> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87= =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80= =82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8= IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98= =8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6= =E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7= =94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA= =A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=BA=86 >> =EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF plenary session >> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG >> Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working >> group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF >> auspices >> Any IETF working group or portion thereof >> Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) session >> The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB >> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8= =AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6= =8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF= =BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>=20 >>=20 >> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8= =B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89= =E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context >> of this notice. >> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89= =80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE= =E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB= =87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB= =E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IET= F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82= =89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >> Statements. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7= =B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7= =84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >> public. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD= =9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9= =9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2= =91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >> ************************************************************************= ***************************************************************** >>=20 >>=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM > To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com > Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;=20 > diversity@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > Hi Leaf, >=20 > I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from=20 > Mr. > Miao. >=20 > Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >=20 > Thanks, > Aaron >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>=20 >> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the >> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version, = but I suppose >> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) he= re. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version & >> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I >> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key >> words, including: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>=20 >> b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96= =E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >> c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E7= =BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >> and etc. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >>=20 >> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >>=20 >> Leaf >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ************************************************************************= *************************************************************** >> Note Well >> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F= =A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>=20 >>=20 >> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for publication >> as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made >> within the context of an IETF activity is considered an "IETF >> Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in IETF >> sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made at any >> time or place, which are addressed to: >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5= =8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD= =9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C= RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85= =E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83=E5=9B=B4 >> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87= =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80= =82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8= IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98= =8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6= =E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7= =94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA= =A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=BA=86 >> =EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF plenary session >> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG >> Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working >> group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF >> auspices >> Any IETF working group or portion thereof >> Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) session >> The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB >> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8= =AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6= =8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9= =83=A8=E5=88=86 >> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF= =BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>=20 >>=20 >> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8= =B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89= =E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context >> of this notice. >> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89= =80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE= =E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB= =87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB= =E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IET= F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82= =89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >> Statements. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7= =B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7= =84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>=20 >> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >> public. >> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD= =9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9= =9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2= =91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >> ************************************************************************= ***************************************************************** >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >> To: Aaron Yi DING >> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Kathleen >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >> wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Hi, >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >>=20 >>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> Cheers, >>=20 >>> Aaron >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> -------- >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA= =A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6= =96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92= =E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5= =8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83= =E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95 >>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >>=20 >>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >>=20 >>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1= =BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC= =9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4= =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6= =89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC= =8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6= =9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92= =8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7= =94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>=20 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3= =E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >>=20 >>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6= =88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4= =BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83= =BD >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >>=20 >>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8= =BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5= =92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD= =9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E= =E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8= =E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5= =9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83= =85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D >>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >>=20 >>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=8E= =B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5= =8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85= =A8=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3= =80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=BA= =8E >>=20 >>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7= =9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF= =E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9= =9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88= =96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>=20 >>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>=20 >>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>=20 >>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >>=20 >>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >>=20 >>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since >>>>> Paris/IETF >>=20 >>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>=20 >>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk=20 >>>>> with him in person. >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> Spencer >>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>=20 >>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due=20 >>>> time. >>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>=20 >>>> Aaron >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>=20 >>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB= =99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5= =8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >>=20 >>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88= =E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8= =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >>=20 >>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84= =E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >>=20 >>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=B8= =80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC >>=20 >>>>> 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_______________________________________________ >>=20 >>>> diversity mailing list >>=20 >>>> diversity@ietf.org >>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>=20 >>> > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com Thu Aug 22 09:53:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE4B21F9F23 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:53:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YyljiDHDlaRm for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:53:56 -0700 (PDT) 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ey4mr14412240pbd.52.1377190435460; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PC ([111.193.212.125]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sx7sm15922996pbc.41.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Leaf Yeh" To: "'Aaron Yi DING'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 00:53:45 +0800 Message-ID: <52164222.67e6440a.6fed.641a@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6fT/h1XQQ9m8VuTuC3DS91qkD9HgABMujw Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: diversity@ietf.org, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:53:57 -0000 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X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+PiBkaXZlcnNpdHkgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiANCj4+ Pj4+IGRpdmVyc2l0eUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RpdmVyc2l0eQ0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+IF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiANCj4+Pj4gZGl2ZXJz aXR5IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+IGRpdmVyc2l0eUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gDQo+Pj4+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGl2ZXJzaXR5DQo+PiANCj4+ PiA8aWV0Zi1ub3RlLXdlbGwtY2hpbmVzZS50eHQ+DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IGRpdmVyc2l0eSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gZGl2 ZXJzaXR5QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v ZGl2ZXJzaXR5DQo= From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 10:03:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5360C21F99CD for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:03:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMYipBjYnT9r for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268D111E81F5 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 10:03:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.35]:45454) by ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]:25) with esmtp id 1VCYIN-0005NF-8y (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:03:39 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VCYIN-000uIv-OL (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:03:39 +0100 Received: from add.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.64.12]) by webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:03:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:03:39 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: <18ccad2d7aa06aaee2edfdc890f4c23d@cam.ac.uk> X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.2 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, kathleen.moriarty@emc.com, fuyou.miao@huawei.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:03:48 -0000 Hi Leaf, On 22/08/13 17:53, Leaf Yeh wrote: > Aaron - Could Leaf help to finalize your version so that it can used=20 > soon by the community. >=20 > Because Fuyou & you have no 'technical' argue (or revision suggestion)=20 > on my translation version, so it has no update yet and has always=20 > included in this thread. >=20 Since we trust you that your latest version reflects our joint work,=20 there is no such argument whatsoever :) >=20 > Aaron - ...it is also nice to attach a brief statement clarifying its=20 > status, i.e., non-legal. >=20 > I believe Kathleen (or Jari) has an unified method (or standard) to=20 > handle it. >=20 Sounds good. Once such statement's ready, this task is complete. Cheers, Aaron >=20 > Best Regards, > Leaf >=20 >> PS. Here is the copy. >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ****************************************************************** >>> Note Well >>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F= =A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made >>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5= =8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD= =9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C= RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85= =E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83 >>> =E5=9B=B4 >>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D= =87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C= =A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C= =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4= =BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>> =E4=BA=86 >>> =EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF plenary session >>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The >>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C= =E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF= =E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF= =BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8= =B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89= =E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>> context of this notice. >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89= =80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE= =E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB= =87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB= =E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IET= F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82= =89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>> Statements. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7= =B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7= =84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >>> public. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD= =9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9= =9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2= =91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ******************************************************************** >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:55 PM > To: fuyou.miao@huawei.com > Cc: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org;=20 > kathleen.moriarty@emc.com > Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese >=20 > On 12/08/13 02:33, Miaofuyou (Fuyou) wrote: >> I am OK with it, thank for your work! >>=20 >> - Miao >=20 >=20 > Thanks Mr. Miao. >=20 > Could Leaf help to finalize your version so that it can used soon by=20 > the community. As we discussed, it is also nice to attach a brief=20 > statement clarifying its status, i.e., non-legal. >=20 > Thanks, > Aaron >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Leaf Yeh [mailto:leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:57 PM >> To: 'Aaron Yi DING'; Miaofuyou (Fuyou) >> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >> diversity@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Note Well translation - Chinese >>=20 >> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao. >>=20 >> Ok. >>=20 >> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>=20 >> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th. >> It also shows below in this email. >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >> Leaf >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM >> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com >> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >> diversity@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>=20 >> Hi Leaf, >>=20 >> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from >> Mr. >> Miao. >>=20 >> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Aaron >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote: >>>=20 >>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the >>> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version,= but I suppose >>> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) h= ere. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version & >>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but I >>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some key >>> words, including: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> a. the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>=20 >>> b. IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88= =96=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>> c. IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=E7= =BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>> and etc. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >>>=20 >>> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best Regards, >>>=20 >>> Leaf >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ****************************************************************** >>> Note Well >>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F= =A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for >>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any >>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered >>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in >>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made >>> at any time or place, which are addressed to: >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5= =8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD= =9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C= RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85= =E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB= =84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83 >>> =E5=9B=B4 >>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D= =87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3= =80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C= =A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6= =98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97= =B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C= =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4= =BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99 >>> =E4=BA=86 >>> =EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF plenary session >>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF >>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or >>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices >>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather >>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The >>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function >>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88= =90=E5=91=98 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C= =E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF= =E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 >>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF= =BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90= =E5=91=98 >>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC >>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879). >>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8= =B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89= =E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other >>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF >>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the >>> context of this notice. >>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89= =80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE= =E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB= =87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB= =E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IET= F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details. >>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82= =89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF rules >>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG >>> Statements. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7= =B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7= =84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio >>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the >>> public. >>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8= =80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD= =9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9= =9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2= =91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82 >>> ********************************************************************* >>> ******************************************************************** >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM >>> To: Aaron Yi DING >>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com; >>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative! >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>>=20 >>> Kathleen >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING" >>> >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work. File >>>=20 >>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome. >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>> Aaron >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> -------- >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA= =A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6= =96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92= =E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5= =8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83= =E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95 >>>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E >>>=20 >>>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF >>>=20 >>>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1= =BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC= =9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4= =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9= =80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6= =89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A= =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC= =8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6= =9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92= =8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97= =E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7= =94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8 >>>=20 >>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6= =E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3= =E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB >>>=20 >>>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6= =88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4= =BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83= =BD >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6= =A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83= =BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA= =8ERFC >>>=20 >>>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1= =E8=BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5= =92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD= =9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E= =E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A= =A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8= =E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5= =9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83= =85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D >>>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E >>>=20 >>>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8= =8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5= =8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85= =A8=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3= =80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=BA= =8E >>>=20 >>>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0= =E6=98=8E=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7= =9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF= =E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9= =9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88= =96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote: >>>=20 >>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>=20 >>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so >>>=20 >>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer? >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Dear Diversity Team, >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this e-mail). >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the >>>=20 >>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since >>>>>> Paris/IETF >>>=20 >>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is >>>=20 >>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk >>>>>> with him in person. >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help! >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> Spencer >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an >>>=20 >>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due >>>>> time. >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> See you soon in Berlin. >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> Cheers, >>>=20 >>>>> Aaron >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9 >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7= =BB=99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C= =E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88= =E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8= =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84= =E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4= =B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D= =E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC >>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95= =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=92=8C=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7= =9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=81=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92= =8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85= =E6=8B=AC=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E7=BB=99=EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE >>>=20 >>>>>> IESG=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7= =9A=84=E5=85=B6=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 >>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E5=86=85=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88= =97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=ACIETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8= =A1=A8=E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5 =E4=BD=9C=E7= =BB=84 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5= =88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E5=AE= 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>>>>>> =E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7= =BB=84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98= =8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA= =E4=B8=8D=E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE= =A4=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F >>>=20 >>>>>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7= =9B=AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA= =8B=E9=A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4= =E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80= =9D=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E= =B7=E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E= =E8=80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8= =E9=83=A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF= =99 >>>=20 >>>>>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4= =B8=AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80= =9DRFC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A= =E4=B9=89=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD= =E5=B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A >>>=20 >>>>>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6= =96=87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE= =B0=E5=BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91= =E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82 >>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>>>> diversity mailing list >>>=20 >>>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>>> diversity mailing list >>>=20 >>>>> diversity@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>=20 >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sun Aug 25 04:59:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C843D21F9BD3 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 78Gsf8kLWtDC for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22b.google.com (mail-pd0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574FC21F9BC3 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f171.google.com with SMTP id g10so2386492pdj.2 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=k00GJMXhbfmmkUHyi0b49ubzcpcmaFdb8GD2d8dmgiQ=; b=qZO9Y6x2EghjdGCLOPI3I9YqHJIRzyFd1NGCApF0oLYo9AHKdAIcl2LIOoa96U4svF eiMKbEjpJojFSonaYJaMjMwcfUkkXqdbzoic3wpqSwg4A0/qYtKGmkDTp5Uk+Mk6S7AC qnt1UVhfkJa9ZlN2zgUfzdsHPC2sBdDE4vJ3B6FfOW1pO4S8E7trAdvYDJZbrpd9cmDm Ed0fXxgxkmPCMZyS+m7eVetd98PUNLgpfEq2fAMUBPyzSZrFNMyH8D3da7ReJUaOyqWY ec+yO3H8MaKc2uEzjspaYmLBPSAVVRneRWY/s5z+Ocj6EgvFFP68OvkSKTTSgB+dhP93 9sHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.150.41 with SMTP id uf9mr8966859pab.108.1377431997972; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 04:59:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 21:59:57 +1000 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6d7f14f1076204e4c46090 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:59:59 -0000 --047d7b6d7f14f1076204e4c46090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Moonesamy, I thank you for this draft, I want this draft to mention what is the current practice and what should be fixed, or what is wrong with IETF conduct. If I make the problem clear I will know the solution. Some people don't want things to be clear in writting because they are managing the current practice, but I think only the community SHOULD guide the practice to better solutions of many unseen/unclear problems. My idea on Guidance in such BCPs as yours: Some times best practice is doing things friendly without procedure, and some times best practices is doing things with procedure of conduct, so I recommend that the draft can give space between thoes two reactions. Furthermore, the community has no clear known action/decision related to your draft, the community has no WG formed related to your draft, so only managers realy are guiding IETF related works. I asked before a year to the IETF Chair to form a known WG, but he did not think it was a right idea, threrefore, the community is not having a body to guide your draft. What do you think? AB On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:44 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hello, > > I submitted a draft about the IETF Guidelines for Conduct ( > http://tools.ietf.org/html/**draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-**3184bis-00). The draft is a revision of RFC 3184. > > During the last IETF plenary there was the following comment: > > "z (asian accent): Diversity was a controversial topic two years > ago, and I am happy to see that things have somewhat changed, in > that the leadership is more diverse and there is a diversity > project in action. The IETF is about connecting networks, and > bringing in people from more parts of the world will help achieve > the IETFs goals." > > As an off-topic comment, I do not know what is an "asian accent". I'll > get back to the topic. I think that there has been a positive change. > When people new to the IETF are treated unfairly people sit back and watch > the show. I guess that people forget how difficult it is when a person is > new and that person has to grasp how a foreign culture works. > > There is a Best Common Practices (BCP) about guidelines for conduct which > was published in October 2001. If that was indeed a BCP the diversity > discussions should not have happened. My guess is that it happened because > what the IETF says and what the IETF does are two different things. This > draft will not change anything if there isn't any support from IETF > participants. Comments are welcome. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > ______________________________**_________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/diversity > --047d7b6d7f14f1076204e4c46090 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Moonesamy,
=A0
I thank you for this draft, I want this draft to mention what is the c= urrent practice and what should be fixed, or what is wrong with IETF conduc= t. If I make the problem clear I will know the solution. Some people don= 9;t want things to be clear in writting=A0because they are managing the cur= rent practice, but I think only the community SHOULD guide the practice to = better solutions of many unseen/unclear problems.
=A0
My idea on Guidance in such BCPs as yours:
=A0
Some times best practice is doing things friendly without procedure, a= nd some times best practices is doing things with procedure of conduct, so = I recommend that the draft can give space between thoes two reactions. Furt= hermore, the community has no clear known action/decision related to your d= raft, the community has no WG formed related to your draft,=A0so only manag= ers realy are guiding IETF related works. I asked before a year to the IETF= Chair to form a known WG, but he did not think it was a right idea, threre= fore, the community is not having a body to guide your draft. What do you t= hink?
=A0
AB

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 4:44 AM, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> wrote:
Hello,

I submitted a draft abo= ut the IETF Guidelines for Conduct ( http://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-00 ). =A0= The draft is a revision of RFC 3184.

During the last IETF plenary there was the following comment:

= =A0 "z (asian accent): Diversity was a controversial topic two years=A0 ago, and I am happy to see that things have somewhat changed, in
= =A0 that the leadership is more diverse and there is a diversity
=A0 project in action. =A0The IETF is about connecting networks, and
=A0= bringing in people from more parts of the world will help achieve
=A0 t= he IETFs goals."

As an off-topic comment, I do not know what is= an "asian accent". =A0I'll get back to the topic. =A0I think= that there has been a positive change. =A0When people new to the IETF are = treated unfairly people sit back and watch the show. =A0I guess that people= forget how difficult it is when a person is new and that person has to gra= sp how a foreign culture works.

There is a Best Common Practices (BCP) about guidelines for conduct whi= ch was published in October 2001. =A0If that was indeed a BCP the diversity= discussions should not have happened. =A0My guess is that it happened beca= use what the IETF says and what the IETF does are two different things. =A0= This draft will not change anything if there isn't any support from IET= F participants. =A0Comments are welcome.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

________________________________= _______________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/diversity

--047d7b6d7f14f1076204e4c46090-- From sm@elandsys.com Sun Aug 25 09:00:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCAAD21F9D4C for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:00:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.314 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.314 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.285, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MqNPO-rTpSXJ for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDD321F9D55 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.135.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7PG0IvX009518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:00:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377446430; bh=hoUJ6rVw9Bx0j9k3Wl81QVxRw9T2Qg2ZVmjCqqauBxw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=ZyqDtueWBo1i13oZ6x1ESPdSPxksbBFD3FKkSxETpzSfW7TlP0QQ95/aew9qXcc8S yQUHKMfOd0p8m45gz97xtKkY5JceiX3WwsvVwYkrg2jqfOrFwLwoiH0rtQ0FPG+GF7 DoDeiUkY/X8n0edLxm08aB1iJ0TgqKiQAldYua+Q= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377446430; i=@elandsys.com; bh=hoUJ6rVw9Bx0j9k3Wl81QVxRw9T2Qg2ZVmjCqqauBxw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=dTwCHNdxdexggrnbHGTMTQwt0ZBgUFlf+7GSVeWpMMj569p8yaBkhUBRIKMUEC3xy bii9lbUvX4qyoTcAROQhu8NgXXP1eOaojW/dYyCmxyMcqgctEZgxWOS0V0mrad7k9W 2JT6FCc1Nv2EUinz2znz5/QYe7z+ccZMOg5hRIqw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 07:36:16 -0700 To: Abdussalam Baryun From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 16:00:58 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, At 04:59 25-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >I thank you for this draft, I want this draft to mention what is the >current practice and what should be fixed, or what is wrong with >IETF conduct. If I make the problem clear I will know the solution. >Some people don't want things to be clear in writting because they >are managing the current practice, but I think only the community >SHOULD guide the practice to better solutions of many unseen/unclear problems. The draft is about the guidelines of conduct the IETF agrees about. If people have an idea of what the general guidelines are it is easier for them to follow the guidelines. The draft is being discussed by some IETF participants. >My idea on Guidance in such BCPs as yours: > >Some times best practice is doing things friendly without procedure, >and some times best practices is doing things with procedure of >conduct, so I recommend that the draft can Yes. >give space between thoes two reactions. Furthermore, the community >has no clear known action/decision related to your draft, the >community has no WG formed related to your draft, so only managers >realy are guiding IETF related works. I asked before a year to the >IETF Chair to form a known WG, but he did not think it was a right >idea, threrefore, the community is not having a body to guide your >draft. What do you think? There are individual efforts which may not require a formal working group. A working group has an overhead, WG Chairs, a Responsible Area Director, etc. If a General Area Director believes that a working group is recommended he or she can recommend that. It is not something within my decision. The IETF Community is deemed to have agreed to all BCPs. I think it is better to do things in a friendly manner. If that does not work there are actions that can be taken. For what it is worth I have been involved in two highly contentious working groups. I have an understanding of both sides of the problem. Regards, S. Moonesamy From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Aug 27 02:42:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CEB21E80D0 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F3AYs9H0VbT8 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x231.google.com (mail-pd0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3B621E80CD for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id y10so4605164pdj.8 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qnah+RdAl3LwI6HQmYnemxUqKsHYmJmxNJXFFCGgecw=; b=SK+ZfwfwWpzHQ/W7tLvxc5Iy5kx1yPELEbFwurvNFtoIU+pv98akOj7OrXvv26uOsE qBHgOhULEGvYOPqwfmpZ03sdQv/GxiMIPzZXAxvHgH1YUvYdw3NAIZKjVR9+Wm8trJtw uBLsAvrv+NBLKCZuc9BLBJK7DIbQ8A2JTrYA+4ARwfn1/xpVTfv6i0zlBPPpN9Fc3eoM G/rEB9GKH7Y/ZGNo7AdzMwtasdMBQQl50cBYEG8XLkZpRdgnnPEehmWwjV1o8eQfrlLp 0Qhcx4PLWD4M69aSbqdZ8zTccqscTn+6SPj1u5GqFvLRVdjp8uvSu1KzMdMW8HzhSo5J 6FWg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.217.166 with SMTP id oz6mr19611932pac.22.1377596558144; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 19:42:38 +1000 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d9fa97dfc5204e4eab1bc Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:42:39 -0000 --047d7b5d9fa97dfc5204e4eab1bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Moonesamy, The drafts that do BCP need a working group, it is not correct that IETF allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such working group. General Area has already a DIRECTOR (the IETF Chair) but sadly it has no WG, why is that, could some one answer? There is a general Area but there is no WG, in my opinion why we have a director of no working community, it seems like we have a director for no diversity, we have a director of teams, or assigned groups that that director wants, DO you think that is friendly with the community? AB On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:36 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > > At 04:59 25-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> I thank you for this draft, I want this draft to mention what is the >> current practice and what should be fixed, or what is wrong with IETF >> conduct. If I make the problem clear I will know the solution. Some people >> don't want things to be clear in writting because they are managing the >> current practice, but I think only the community SHOULD guide the practice >> to better solutions of many unseen/unclear problems. >> > > The draft is about the guidelines of conduct the IETF agrees about. If > people have an idea of what the general guidelines are it is easier for > them to follow the guidelines. The draft is being discussed by some IETF > participants. > > > My idea on Guidance in such BCPs as yours: >> >> Some times best practice is doing things friendly without procedure, and >> some times best practices is doing things with procedure of conduct, so I >> recommend that the draft can >> > > Yes. > > > give space between thoes two reactions. Furthermore, the community has no >> clear known action/decision related to your draft, the community has no WG >> formed related to your draft, so only managers realy are guiding IETF >> related works. I asked before a year to the IETF Chair to form a known WG, >> but he did not think it was a right idea, threrefore, the community is not >> having a body to guide your draft. What do you think? >> > > There are individual efforts which may not require a formal working group. > A working group has an overhead, WG Chairs, a Responsible Area Director, > etc. If a General Area Director believes that a working group is > recommended he or she can recommend that. It is not something within my > decision. > > The IETF Community is deemed to have agreed to all BCPs. I think it is > better to do things in a friendly manner. If that does not work there are > actions that can be taken. For what it is worth I have been involved in > two highly contentious working groups. I have an understanding of both > sides of the problem. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > --047d7b5d9fa97dfc5204e4eab1bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=A0Moonesamy,

The drafts that do BCP need a working group, it = is not correct that IETF allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed= community on such working group. General Area has already a DIRECTOR (the = IETF Chair) but sadly it has no WG, why is that, could some one answer?

=
There is a general Area but there is no WG, in my opinion why we h= ave a director of no working community, it seems like we have a director fo= r no diversity, we have a director of teams, or assigned groups that that d= irector wants, DO you think that is friendly with the community?

=
AB


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:36 AM, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com= > wrote:
Hi Abdussalam,

At 04:59 25-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
I thank you for this draft, I want this draft to mention what is the curren= t practice and what should be fixed, or what is wrong with IETF conduct. If= I make the problem clear I will know the solution. Some people don't w= ant things to be clear in writting because they are managing the current pr= actice, but I think only the community SHOULD guide the practice to better = solutions of many unseen/unclear problems.

The draft is about the guidelines of conduct the IETF agrees about. =A0If p= eople have an idea of what the general guidelines are it is easier for them= to follow the guidelines. =A0The draft is being discussed by some IETF par= ticipants.


My idea on Guidance in such BCPs as yours:

Some times best practice is doing things friendly without procedure, and so= me times best practices is doing things with procedure of conduct, so I rec= ommend that the draft can

Yes.


give space between thoes two reactions. Furthermore, the community has no c= lear known action/decision related to your draft, the community has no WG f= ormed related to your draft, so only managers realy are guiding IETF relate= d works. I asked before a year to the IETF Chair to form a known WG, but he= did not think it was a right idea, threrefore, the community is not having= a body to guide your draft. What do you think?

There are individual efforts which may not require a formal working group. = =A0A working group has an overhead, WG Chairs, a Responsible Area Director,= etc. =A0If a General Area Director believes that a working group is recomm= ended he or she can recommend that. =A0It is not something within my decisi= on.

The IETF Community is deemed to have agreed to all BCPs. =A0I think it is b= etter to do things in a friendly manner. =A0If that does not work there are= actions that can be taken. =A0For what it is worth I have been involved in= two highly contentious working groups. =A0I have an understanding of both = sides of the problem.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

--047d7b5d9fa97dfc5204e4eab1bc-- From lars@netapp.com Tue Aug 27 03:15:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B0B11E8175 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.613 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.613 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.986, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ULxr7zN1HC2h for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 03:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F7411E8127 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 03:15:53 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,967,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="84299377" Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 27 Aug 2013 03:15:53 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.116]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 03:15:53 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Abdussalam Baryun Thread-Topic: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis Thread-Index: AQHOown6F/FI2kuYmUaiQ8BhSJTfcJmpTBSA Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:15:52 +0000 Message-ID: <961E235E-A1A6-4511-A38A-580A72C7338B@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_996DDFFC-B762-483E-9BD4-2E78C05A5489"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:15:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_996DDFFC-B762-483E-9BD4-2E78C05A5489 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, On Aug 27, 2013, at 11:42, Abdussalam Baryun = wrote: > The drafts that do BCP need a working group, that is not true. BCPs and standards track documents *can* be published = as AD-sponsored documents without the need for a WG. See = http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/ad-sponsoring-docs.html > it is not correct that IETF > allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such > working group. That is your *viewpoint*. The IETF process allows for this. Lars --Apple-Mail=_996DDFFC-B762-483E-9BD4-2E78C05A5489 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUhx8WNZcnpRveo1xAQKCDQQAr9Xy3zeXB8FdR/ye6iBCkpyASPZWMMpY BvMJW8Vuzu1AQajmctddvaVRZLznsTgUSdjM8Uaj74M5eDxwffCs7jUkUXjs+eMy znuZoLdrO3vUdfFl6IKiN4rfPLZoII8nPX9622Cer+1KlNWKNtru4+s8PmAnsb6+ cWYs/meNNQM= =Zdje -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_996DDFFC-B762-483E-9BD4-2E78C05A5489-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Aug 27 04:13:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C035121F9E36 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5u4-sq7HBngE for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB49021F9E46 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id lf1so4670811pab.38 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5FpKccwKC9JZpvE9n9v2Zkrm2103NapM6tI5yUwE/Nk=; b=WsMyl6WzE0lYfqGAmwly3MTg6QVfLoA3EqPadah+VlJSETDmpJwJOFT7MTf7QO/HzQ RUbj0o9BKE+UoW4/HHQZfOHzH84UNR1a+7tBwAmwWBY2RCbEfqwOIPwrlSE5KvdZXBKL XWRZRm3EvYfr72Ri9OX/H/CyDkkrYtVs++jTYUV7dGNDREUndT38CGaIpej605TsQxjt ONXzkfo8qkgE4fMsqUNZOvVJYvGJ9jh488I6QO/Kj0FekSY1AW93f4o/MdpV5Knr8Puo Z305xhTOrzpJclYfE6qOpf2mwDMjDLH9CTNsf+IF9NSqS48t2mbFCG433JqcR9AwXpZf nmVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.217.166 with SMTP id oz6mr20026265pac.22.1377602003587; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <961E235E-A1A6-4511-A38A-580A72C7338B@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <961E235E-A1A6-4511-A38A-580A72C7338B@netapp.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:13:23 +1000 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Eggert, Lars" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d9fa910e04304e4ebf673 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:13:24 -0000 --047d7b5d9fa910e04304e4ebf673 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Lars, I agree with you totally, but my input/subject is not for IETF list, it is in diversity list. The draft mentions/concerns with diversity, or the diverse community, please note that most participants in IETF are not diverse much, so the works/drafts related are needing more efforts which I think we need a WG (not a team assigned by management) for such BCPs under the General Area, related to issues of the draft of Moonesamy. AB On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Hi, > > On Aug 27, 2013, at 11:42, Abdussalam Baryun > wrote: > > The drafts that do BCP need a working group, > > that is not true. BCPs and standards track documents *can* be published as > AD-sponsored documents without the need for a WG. See > http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/ad-sponsoring-docs.html > > > it is not correct that IETF > > allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such > > working group. > > That is your *viewpoint*. The IETF process allows for this. > > Lars > --047d7b5d9fa910e04304e4ebf673 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Lars,

I agree with you totally= , but my input/subject is not for IETF list, it is in diversity list. The d= raft mentions/concerns with diversity, or the diverse community, please not= e that most participants in IETF are not diverse much, so the works/drafts = related are needing more efforts which I think we need a WG (not a team ass= igned by management) for such BCPs under the General Area, related to issue= s of the draft of Moonesamy.

AB

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Eggert, L= ars <lars@netapp.com> wrote:
Hi,

On Aug 27, 2013, at 11:42, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote:
> The drafts that do BCP need a working group,

that is not true. BCPs and standards track documents *can* be publish= ed as AD-sponsored documents without the need for a WG. See h= ttp://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/ad-sponsoring-docs.html

> it is not correct that IETF
> allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such > working group.

That is your *viewpoint*. The IETF process allows for this.

Lars

--047d7b5d9fa910e04304e4ebf673-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Aug 27 04:16:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ECA21F9E51 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7wiK0uJ3QF4z for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C9821F99BA for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id lf1so4704709pab.10 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7nEzu1yH7NxvNllXXH6HTo+YRMvc1nnMl0fqTyg/FDc=; b=q6622B7aEgGImfR9+xPPJ487+TIsFEfLXI+W9wSGSatw7iaIbPEtsgHwzrTIdAdasd JpuZYlE9VmW2z9knDqmZpqxqEOVnQAInvoDNqFJOzW37Lnyk3/GXH4dm5LcnDokgp/ul psnvbziq9P5f/T7tUTd+OMBzcchIsaMU3EJMTvp46DH91s805LFbtTtmvGdXSCciJ/Yr FxnXbQlLoMABuaOHoX6ppW0YpOT31AZKlkvpnV+6l2Asfs5iP1TEyOQn0CDv56OUYxXt Mbbbr+ilOg+DHI/Abl0jP73pfhvrSyY9ufTlbWaO9dxweFkPujfB02xzMEZdSu8Wr6Wt i4cQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.228.201 with SMTP id sk9mr20771756pbc.4.1377602182709; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 04:16:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <961E235E-A1A6-4511-A38A-580A72C7338B@netapp.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:16:22 +1000 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Eggert, Lars" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b162d11be07d704e4ec00c4 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:16:25 -0000 --047d7b162d11be07d704e4ec00c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Therefore, your reply is only correct if we are talking about BCPs that are for non-diverse IETF, but if we want BCPs of diverse IETF we will need my view point to become true, which is having an IETF WG for such works as Moonesamy's draft. AB On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Abdussalam Baryun < abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I agree with you totally, but my input/subject is not for IETF list, it is > in diversity list. The draft mentions/concerns with diversity, or the > diverse community, please note that most participants in IETF are not > diverse much, so the works/drafts related are needing more efforts which I > think we need a WG (not a team assigned by management) for such BCPs under > the General Area, related to issues of the draft of Moonesamy. > > AB > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On Aug 27, 2013, at 11:42, Abdussalam Baryun >> wrote: >> > The drafts that do BCP need a working group, >> >> that is not true. BCPs and standards track documents *can* be published >> as AD-sponsored documents without the need for a WG. See >> http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/ad-sponsoring-docs.html >> >> > it is not correct that IETF >> > allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such >> > working group. >> >> That is your *viewpoint*. The IETF process allows for this. >> >> Lars >> > > --047d7b162d11be07d704e4ec00c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Therefore, your reply is only correct if we are talking ab= out BCPs that are for non-diverse IETF, but if we want BCPs of diverse IETF= we will need my view point to become true, which is having an IETF WG for = such works as=A0Moonesamy's draft.

AB=


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambar= yun@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Lars,

I agree with you totally, but = my input/subject is not for IETF list, it is in diversity list. The draft m= entions/concerns with diversity, or the diverse community, please note that= most participants in IETF are not diverse much, so the works/drafts relate= d are needing more efforts which I think we need a WG (not a team assigned = by management) for such BCPs under the General Area, related to issues of t= he draft of Moonesamy.

AB


= On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com> wrote:
Hi,

On Aug 27, 2013, at 11:42, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wr= ote:
> The drafts that do BCP need a working group,

that is not true. BCPs and standards track documents *can* be publish= ed as AD-sponsored documents without the need for a WG. See h= ttp://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/ad-sponsoring-docs.html

> it is not correct that IETF
> allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on such > working group.

That is your *viewpoint*. The IETF process allows for this.

Lars


--047d7b162d11be07d704e4ec00c4-- From sm@elandsys.com Tue Aug 27 10:28:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BB511E8243 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:28:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hygx6bGx+Hn1 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633E311E81CD for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.139.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7RHS6NH017540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Aug 2013 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377624503; bh=ivVCiANgtRbsED3jd18jxptvLkyVYG4vaQqt7fY45bA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=eXVjUiYOk78lzU7of0hCIkopmRRRum6R3IsOcP6AfmY+iuIMoZiQeIasiAf0jxqpV tWYqEuLhOkK0iCJddbeN2o6bVaZTB0xPFQLi36SJXkFPgrHIn3MU0GOZeJB024L0DL mlJ9AAqN4OCfcAK7g/nvmi3T7r92N+LlrPkDy3mA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377624503; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ivVCiANgtRbsED3jd18jxptvLkyVYG4vaQqt7fY45bA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Dd1PtZIS7kpBDfgtR11WipDowk+A9Mjm9zeeZfFhcYfKfEsj7st7spFnONa4rvXwh ZnCA89F0oK6MFnHOfgei0vmMSHCV8Z4r2bjN4nTNBnHN+X0emN8bdA1Gi6Z6egwWRs 0Pt/nN4Wew4iOJzXCkPS/1dPfdE9lNYCnxIENEfM= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:08:33 -0700 To: Abdussalam Baryun From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 17:28:28 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, At 02:42 27-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >The drafts that do BCP need a working group, it is not correct that >IETF allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on >such working group. General Area has already a DIRECTOR (the IETF >Chair) but sadly it has no WG, why is that, could some one answer? draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis is an Internet-Draft. Anyone can submit an Internet-Draft with an intended BCP status. Lars Eggert explained about AD-sponsored drafts at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00233.html >There is a general Area but there is no WG, in my opinion why we >have a director of no working community, it seems like we have a >director for no diversity, we have a director of teams, or assigned >groups that that director wants, DO you think that is friendly with >the community? If the General Area Director sponsors this draft, the draft will still require IETF Consensus. Assuming that I consider the lack of working group as a problem I would raise it as an issue and explain why it is a problem. I would not use "friendly with the community" as an explanation. Regards, S. Moonesamy From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Fri Aug 30 14:14:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFF911E8120 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.516 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.516 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lH3rXkqcl6wY for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x233.google.com (mail-pb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E0011E8122 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f51.google.com with SMTP id jt11so2353343pbb.10 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=4qfTEGo/cZxPw1DBKq9/eqDI83fGpsjGEo0pc2sRk68=; b=S7R/vV49f7rrvkkk3JdFI5sgOJ4BY8viDNv31vaDfYVZZObhbybGaqyQVKY9PoFw3h yUCuKpSKlU95/gcDhRL1Ts2gkf6KjJyiG+MmjfA4WRvWcnLr+2R0w14Aq/yDt6bU/bFx 75JricOXMWZ4g824WFOnNsV3o6yguXMVV1j6gDxdpebOZO9pPyL2ja2xbjU52GdtRqkV vvjg5kGUReXjbvBRPS+g9xWB3tq2yKxRfMWf+bz7yMFph2nunXKI+MN+g/AHYt2nYiId IuGa01nr3y6ZAbHDCLbeuY5++qhQ/PEIpiR8zGXrMqmx0nyMvKdnBSGD59RTAObNC5Qp I8+w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.25.133 with SMTP id c5mr7726283pag.4.1377897290999; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:14:50 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 21:14:52 -0000 Hi Moonesamy, I understand your point, but I ment that I prefer a diversity WG that carries this draft through not a draft that needs non-diverse groups or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. AB On 8/27/13, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > At 02:42 27-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>The drafts that do BCP need a working group, it is not correct that >>IETF allows for some people to do BCP without an agreed community on >>such working group. General Area has already a DIRECTOR (the IETF >>Chair) but sadly it has no WG, why is that, could some one answer? > > draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis is an Internet-Draft. Anyone > can submit an Internet-Draft with an intended BCP status. Lars > Eggert explained about AD-sponsored drafts at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00233.html > >>There is a general Area but there is no WG, in my opinion why we >>have a director of no working community, it seems like we have a >>director for no diversity, we have a director of teams, or assigned >>groups that that director wants, DO you think that is friendly with >>the community? > > If the General Area Director sponsors this draft, the draft will > still require IETF Consensus. Assuming that I consider the lack of > working group as a problem I would raise it as an issue and explain > why it is a problem. I would not use "friendly with the community" > as an explanation. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > From lars@netapp.com Sat Aug 31 02:46:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE75521F99EF for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:46:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.158, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EMDQBVMycNRx for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.netapp.com (mx11.netapp.com [216.240.18.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BDC21F893E for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:45:47 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,997,1367996400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="45878075" Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) by mx11-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2013 02:45:35 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.116]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:45:36 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Abdussalam Baryun Thread-Topic: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis Thread-Index: AQHOpcZWY6xQ09Qmz0S7eThYlAhf0Jmvh3kA Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:45:34 +0000 Message-ID: <9AF8B072-87CE-475C-A503-88E59AC34BAC@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.118] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_00288A6D-3448-4E3F-A3DC-5596F560B3BE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:46:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_00288A6D-3448-4E3F-A3DC-5596F560B3BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Aug 30, 2013, at 23:14, Abdussalam Baryun = wrote: > I understand your point, but I ment that I prefer a diversity WG that > carries this draft through not a draft that needs non-diverse groups > or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the > issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that > consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by > diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. you seem to believe that a WG that would be formed to work on these = issues would somehow inherently be more diverse than the design team is. = I don't think that's a given. Also, it will be crucial for any new guidelines in this space to have = broad IETF discussion and consensus, which will require a long and = in-depth IETF last call. It's not clear to me that front-loading a WG = last call will really lead to any better result in the end. Lars --Apple-Mail=_00288A6D-3448-4E3F-A3DC-5596F560B3BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUiG7PtZcnpRveo1xAQJ83QP+OIbax+LX817jsYtDNspCq1nru3YuBpJS kDzEmVZ2OjwrTedA5x0wFqquBgjVaEgt9tscqQtiH1P2kgj8kdBojwrXb72T2Ij6 BnXChLa+o9FcdiuUfjFfLI7o5ks7gn6rAok9qP6AiSIADK4oiiZsbqD4vAOR2Z40 LCeMpmsp4W0= =yD1h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_00288A6D-3448-4E3F-A3DC-5596F560B3BE-- From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 02:54:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E52C11E8135 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:54:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1fLj8m7Wurco for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7904F11E8132 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.235.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7V9s2dp017038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:54:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377942859; bh=qdLnGHXcuNYo3tulxUJBUp/JvkeFEyx78V6yC3Q1GX8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc; b=G+gXDiMkhWwSY9dU2sLjVbxGwFgW7ItBMmUQcILoSFPij6eUDCXOpVBRdh/nRgywC 80VYqCwYl2dv97rfNlxlUDBxoI7WBMTI1+BpZOiwYFM2kJN0gbK7eMj1A4tQF8H/UL /ba5LFSuhGUk2lMZKUv85wYYX4kV3L50KT1n0ymU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377942859; i=@elandsys.com; bh=qdLnGHXcuNYo3tulxUJBUp/JvkeFEyx78V6yC3Q1GX8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc; b=Ib/EzVTwdElU6a2l+SvVArEDwSOdF7kAL09b0pqSF/2Gv0Obpy60rUUyUC5Fkb+uZ cNPUdXDccfV7kd2u0ZoHZ1JtOt6flrHI4hybTeBC8PiTtf2vcG/Cxwzm1NJn/m/Ghi E6fCMnNgpcLpYubTTkhjrhVlVea8euc25T4a4vxQ= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 02:53:58 -0700 To: diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: "Eggert, Lars" , Juliao Braga , Arturo Servin , Suresh Krishnan , Adrian Farrel Subject: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:54:37 -0000 Hello, I submitted draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 [1]. I corrected the name of the author of RFC 3184. Thanks to the two persons who emailed me her contact details. I used the text suggested by Lars Eggert in Section 2, 6th paragraph. I removed the "think globally" following a comment from Suresh and added some text to the last paragraph of Section 2. Appendix A contains some text about where to report violations of the guidelines for conduct. Appendix B documents the existing measures which are available. The isn't any dependency between the guidelines for conduct and the measures, i.e. the messages can be updated without changing this document. I added Appendix C about changes from RFC 3184 (comment from Juliao and Arturo). Adian Farrel mentioned the following [2]: "If you are unable or feel unable to do so, it is your responsibility to report the misconduct so that it is handled." Some people may not feel comfortable raising such a matter with an unknown person. Making it the person's responsibility creates an uncomfortable situation. Do the community want Area Directors to act on a report where A says: "I heard B being rude to C"? B can deny it or it may not be clear what was said. There is also the question of off-list messages. Is that something an Area Director should take PR-action on? Adrian Farrel mentioned that: 'If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the very first step should be for the community to act.' Is there someone who is not an Area Director or IAB member who will stand up if there is a breach of the guidelines for conduct? Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 2. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00215.html From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 03:27:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392EC21E80BB for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 03:27:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qCpmEQuyWCli for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 03:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDFC21E80AE for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 03:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.235.70]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7VARJZT006129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 03:27:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377944853; bh=wWtKuqXvQzZ33WHWCJrsCtreI2Bj0lpLdhYVIj0GTSg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=22Vz2ih0VtOVmC+ktKCtJhWrqkxjO5V6hL3Zj8Gu7Iwft3oN/zx+8hGbcqjG4P3R2 6G9SRbBcrZl4q8E6pmYWJEic/1T6vd4OWGlirIp5N1yW/8n0mok48iNIUns8LjNuec /fjnvla75V9LebA5tc6CYGR/dHrw2TT23QdwIf30= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377944853; i=@elandsys.com; bh=wWtKuqXvQzZ33WHWCJrsCtreI2Bj0lpLdhYVIj0GTSg=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=HvGhToewfRU3chrfu0M1Y5I6XMb7dLJ+wApcRc8DmVkWsY6ks3fnY/vyKMr23qaYf UVPxr+cCEgiyMPdfxWD+rDyLraH7dqYP2CbSMHVvajD6w/NsKwnFFcyof5H7Oj83PY WEs2TYH9a03H+Vrjnd2dzExA5QK2m8E9Ulr2hhsE= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 03:27:10 -0700 To: Abdussalam Baryun From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:27:46 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. The following persons commented on the thread about the draft: 1. Arturo Servin 2. Juliao Braga 3. Lars Eggert 4. Stephen Farrell 5. Eliot Lear 6. Adrian Farrel 7. Suresh Krishnan 8. Spencer Dawkins 9. Abdussalam Baryun Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. What is a diverse group? Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate with the diverse group? Regards, S. Moonesamy From adrian@olddog.co.uk Sat Aug 31 04:25:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7640A11E8141 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 04:25:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lok-1DzMwZq9 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 04:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1B011E8140 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 04:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7VBOnZ4013706; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:24:49 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (genkt-056-064.t-mobile.co.uk [149.254.56.64]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7VBOim4013678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:24:47 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'S Moonesamy'" , References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 12:24:43 +0100 Message-ID: <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLgUoJQmcpuXxqr2Q8h0qnjJSfPiZeL0eNg Content-Language: en-gb Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 11:25:31 -0000 Hi SM, Thanks for the revision and the notes. > Adrian Farrel mentioned the following [2]: > > "If you are unable or feel unable to do so, it is your responsibility > to report the misconduct so that it is handled." > > Some people may not feel comfortable raising such a matter with an > unknown person. I recognise this, but I don't know the solution. If the victim does not report, and the witness does not report, it becomes a little hard for knowledge of the event to reach those who might act. This logic regrettably causes the installation of large numbers of CCTV camera around many public spaces > Making it the person's responsibility creates an > uncomfortable situation. Do the community want Area Directors to act > on a report where A says: "I heard B being rude to C"? B can deny it > or it may not be clear what was said. This AD wants to hear such reports and to act. But please be aware that "act" does not mean "go from report directly to punishment with no intervening steps". Instead, it includes research, judge impact, assess context, speak to offender. > There is also the question of off-list messages. Is that something > an Area Director should take PR-action on? Actually, yes. I think a personal email in the context of IETF work is within scope, just as an personal interaction in the corridors of a hotel late at night around the dates of an IETF meeting is in scope. > Adrian Farrel mentioned that: > > 'If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the > very first step should be for the community to act.' > > Is there someone who is not an Area Director or IAB member who will > stand up if there is a breach of the guidelines for conduct? If you care to wait until March 2015, you can count me in. (Or you can organise a recall if you want it sooner ;-) But this is a serious and important point. It is the choice between being a community/social group, and being a policed grouping. That is, if we as individuals are not prepared to speak up, then we rely on appointed officers to detect, investigate, judge, and punish. I would be sad if this was the case in the IETF. Cheers, Adrian From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 07:00:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9161511E8106 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.550, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ucU6lQylqS7s for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x233.google.com (mail-pb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD8011E8101 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f51.google.com with SMTP id jt11so2983959pbb.10 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=QisUKdtqNEz5u3b6jq1GC82LdzwTSLb10eEnZNJjSic=; b=HBZBtHAQPkQn3sBOC/Z6tFkLytcmjnUUaU4SBekcWlHV9bLGdDwtDyz4wtVUkIxCOn bBXcVFaXsfqDCm1UZEdT9zrzkPlky3+oDWDzHnCzY+HxG8lKdq8qd4UxHmjRSFmYxwK7 rdKXrSSbPmU+sXLhd9v9bojDIMUjjZxsjnRKDhHnCnhqnSZk2K7smToS5E9KaN93dS3x y3yuE8C1fWl0+8LQ7zs2LdREyDFSNFoOS3yj7KUrlnAySrv7JsMViazzJQz0KWOqjRCa nj9dlcrdWUIahfNT9sQgNZxMxMEUVcKXBk3QacLOx16vNthsYGgJvN/P8wLdgGxvi8z1 WlDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.220.1 with SMTP id ps1mr15662352pbc.30.1377957627736; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:00:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9AF8B072-87CE-475C-A503-88E59AC34BAC@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <9AF8B072-87CE-475C-A503-88E59AC34BAC@netapp.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:00:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Eggert, Lars" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:00:28 -0000 Hi Lars, This diversity list is not a WG and is not a general area space as far as I understand it. This list and including the diversity team have no charter/objetives. I don't beleive also that IETF list is a general area list, I think that IETF list is a community list that watches all IETF Areas, including managements/directors. I like that All IETF documents get to last call IETF so we already request the broad-community comments, but we need special WG that represent community and welcomes new participants to the WORKS, but the team designed does not have welcoming new memebrs/participants I already tried, the team is assigned by management not by community, so any work the team do is not open enough nor diverse enough. comments below: On 8/31/13, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Hi, > > On Aug 30, 2013, at 23:14, Abdussalam Baryun > wrote: >> I understand your point, but I ment that I prefer a diversity WG that >> carries this draft through not a draft that needs non-diverse groups >> or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >> issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >> consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >> diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. > > you seem to believe that a WG that would be formed to work on these issues > would somehow inherently be more diverse than the design team is. I don't > think that's a given. An IETF WG for diversity issues including milestones and charter will be more representing/solving real problems in short term and long term. I don't beleive that general groups can solve any specific problem, but I like that general groups get to read LAST CALL and can comment on specific/general issues related. I beleive not having any General Area WG means that we as community are never given equal chance in BCP issues and only directors and IETF management are focused in thoes. The community has weak say in thoes issues because they have no place as single WG related to General Area. > > Also, it will be crucial for any new guidelines in this space to have broad > IETF discussion and consensus, which will require a long and in-depth IETF > last call. It's not clear to me that front-loading a WG last call will > really lead to any better result in the end. I have no problem with broad discussions, but I requested specific as well, IMHO, we need participations from all, new people, all world regions, women, students,..to say what is the best practice. Making think general and broad may make things with less value/guality, AB From allison.mankin@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 07:04:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CAC11E810C for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TqFdEiQn6FYo for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-x22c.google.com (mail-bk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7A011E8109 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-bk0-f44.google.com with SMTP id mz10so1024289bkb.17 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=3XoRV+8rCyo3sSGjZj3aZ92CfyGtBhOz2CvJgKDP1LM=; b=nP+oDE6cJiiu/eZXdXc29EoaxE6/XAQfdRXjO1xK4YSLhms8yP6vtGwzMBnZYWxPGL IOK5adXw4wLD4ZaW+n7WjPG+Wqzl0X4WJQltKndzw5mst8wtfWZ6pnwVIw5DoZ9Szdm4 RfC9eSLW7GF7JR5t4HJ2//tyPnxG8XqT6SUlzKpfU9KWsQPix7YB8c3HAV+dbJwSZpR5 U4ulMPRhRnwMwT7XPw5ubAxh8YaXN0zKWOWWz5ZaRh2qtBNlyjQrRyC/8/DE3TTBuhR9 7xCm/v9UqC0ESIH3tseE3JnHz1ho10tTd5+x2hQqdjzc4XOC/RR4I7QvKQsCgCER5qkA N3Mw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.123.70 with SMTP id o6mr2180524bkr.9.1377957846360; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.42.194 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.42.194 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:04:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Allison Mankin To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133541af2d4c204e53ecf1d Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:04:09 -0000 --001a1133541af2d4c204e53ecf1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 SM, Interesting observation. I've observed over the years that I have a high threshhold for sending email to a mailing list. Speaking only for myself, I almost always get at least some private responses, and they inflict discomfort often enough for me to not enjoy this communication mode. I especially feel caution about speaking of a female perspective as might be natural in this diversity list. The group you listed are people who demonstrably are less inclined to hesitation. I read that Facebook has signs up that say "What could I accomplish if I wasn't afraid?" I am trying to remember it for more situations. If people who send sharp responses hesitate more, and people who are nervous think more about what we can accomplish, list participation might become more diverse. Allison On Aug 31, 2013 6:27 AM, "S Moonesamy" wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >> issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >> consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >> diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. >> > > The following persons commented on the thread about the draft: > > 1. Arturo Servin > 2. Juliao Braga > 3. Lars Eggert > 4. Stephen Farrell > 5. Eliot Lear > 6. Adrian Farrel > 7. Suresh Krishnan > 8. Spencer Dawkins > 9. Abdussalam Baryun > > Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. What is a diverse > group? Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate with the > diverse group? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > ______________________________**_________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/diversity > --001a1133541af2d4c204e53ecf1d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

SM,

Interesting observation.

I've observed over the years that I have a high threshhold for sendi= ng email to a mailing list. Speaking only for myself, I almost always get a= t least some private responses, and they inflict discomfort often enough fo= r me to not enjoy this communication mode.=A0

I especially feel caution about speaking of a female perspective as migh= t be natural in this diversity list.

The group you listed are people who demonstrably are less inclined to he= sitation.=A0 I read that Facebook has signs up that say "What could I = accomplish if I wasn't afraid?" I am trying to remember it for mor= e situations.

If people who send sharp responses hesitate more, and people who are ne= rvous think more about what we can accomplish, list participation might bec= ome more diverse.

Allison

On Aug 31, 2013 6:27 AM, "S Moonesamy"= <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>= wrote:
Hi Abdussalam,
At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the
issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that
consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by
diverse-group not a non-diverse-group.

The following persons commented on the thread about the draft:

=A0 1. Arturo Servin
=A0 2. Juliao Braga
=A0 3. Lars Eggert
=A0 4. Stephen Farrell
=A0 5. Eliot Lear
=A0 6. Adrian Farrel
=A0 7. Suresh Krishnan
=A0 8. Spencer Dawkins
=A0 9. Abdussalam Baryun

Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. =A0What is a divers= e group? =A0 Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate with the d= iverse group?

Regards,
S. Moonesamy
_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
--001a1133541af2d4c204e53ecf1d-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 07:20:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD19511E8109 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.112, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XlCGuULoDGiH for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22d.google.com (mail-pb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAFD11E80FD for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id mc17so2988595pbc.32 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=sqljDhKYbjxEgAHmre3wm7P7/ckNPohgkgKQnR3VWKU=; b=VQ4X9+1WQGXuslWA0OOHUDGGvTwing9/pQazwO2NyE4vPi9u2Yfkw9oVdjeDFQVssp UoR61N/gjb8cDdCaVkk8kcF6r/gjBxnDGQQb0cPEMC9XTc6EvkjkKGSTh8oMhtspXN1l beIPGB43FaEtZBLxcNTU1qA6wNMhE8kVTZHt+/RUYA/SfHFzbKjLRC6YMHPcN3vQOkUz 5iAo6yq9rONk/XN95qDxqYRGh3ek92ISjC623nw0fkUExFtLxOVWYFskqTWBgmbs2vYU xpc1VRaHH7k29U00Qj0MG8ftM+VSYrdxAsramuoN89oc03y5kuSGkAkowm+Zjnc0Jrl8 U0xA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.217.166 with SMTP id oz6mr16670301pac.22.1377958812295; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:20:12 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:20:13 -0000 On 8/31/13, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >>or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >>issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >>consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >>diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. > > The following persons commented on the thread about the draft: > > 1. Arturo Servin > 2. Juliao Braga > 3. Lars Eggert > 4. Stephen Farrell > 5. Eliot Lear > 6. Adrian Farrel > 7. Suresh Krishnan > 8. Spencer Dawkins > 9. Abdussalam Baryun The above are IETF participants that read the draft, and they are interested in the related General Area problem. Does the General Area director care about this document, please check with the AD and reply. The above names may help to form a new WG as an IETF General Area WG. > > Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. What is a > diverse group? Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate > with the diverse group? I beleive that in IETF we/you can get a diverse group, but the above names are not enough. Diverse Group: is a group that has included/represent all different participants interests/issues related to IETF best practices or IETF procedures. IMHO, you are using the correct mailing list (because we have no much diverse group) and I think the General Area director can answer the question better than me because ADs have better control to represent community problems. Your draft covers an important problem in issues related to General Area. If I was an AD, my answer is that your draft to be discussed in both IETF-list and in this diversity list, and that we try to issue a new WG in General area, so that we can make things more specific for BCP related to such problems. In conclusion, to make the draft with better quality, my personal answer to your question is to communicate (i.e. seek comments) with the above persons and try to find others that make the diverse direction (ex: find different ages, different gender, different world-region participants, ..etc). Thanks for your questions, please note that I would like to know your opinion as well, because I just want the best for your draft and for IETF. Finally, if we in IETF work together we will make it better, because I beleive that usually indivduals (including experts) make mistakes but usually WG don't. AB > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 07:50:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E2B11E8119 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4x0onHGEM+m for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x230.google.com (mail-pd0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF07211E810C for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f176.google.com with SMTP id q10so3002880pdj.21 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=F9VkRuOo8R70eXDI5cY2h1JRPcOYTeU9VlrSGysEdm4=; b=zQnQwYvF4dFpsby1X7icQeAldnae64Lu3tjAISmBv39JiaPagm3f8rb2Po4xaP6GSV qnV5/ytdS2j3iKSFjtglUAzx31XBV2ocMSESEvOyKib0D9eFUmYv+ScfynpPpuqy5smR kUFGsUlcOKFLXEuK3I0GSxk9qCXZ+zmfvLkLB6zMZgzORg4qNM+Uz2cOtX+shSwFxQwo fx4npmp7ZLr4oSDuBTwwVPH1QFLsIVsvm4+YysgtkNQ5Jxi1sHqbzbDIQ5MXFGuYeKIx 8tjvTjfz+UfoH1K1cRSuYj9q4Y4paHly6VZ7w14wlqyTPQr/qrJ+UPMia6WlaTg4eH3C SruA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.245.133 with SMTP id xo5mr440675pbc.198.1377960603216; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:50:03 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:50:04 -0000 I agree that there are discomfort from some IETF communication related to general area drafts, but I think the problem is because that we have no WG in this diversity issue. WG related can meet in IETF meetings and discuss more friendly and solve issues with accomplishments. We can accomplish if we work together friendly and we present all views without hidings or affraid. AB On 8/31/13, Allison Mankin wrote: > SM, > > Interesting observation. > > I've observed over the years that I have a high threshhold for sending > email to a mailing list. Speaking only for myself, I almost always get at > least some private responses, and they inflict discomfort often enough for > me to not enjoy this communication mode. > > I especially feel caution about speaking of a female perspective as might > be natural in this diversity list. > > The group you listed are people who demonstrably are less inclined to > hesitation. I read that Facebook has signs up that say "What could I > accomplish if I wasn't afraid?" I am trying to remember it for more > situations. > > If people who send sharp responses hesitate more, and people who are > nervous think more about what we can accomplish, list participation might > become more diverse. > > Allison > On Aug 31, 2013 6:27 AM, "S Moonesamy" wrote: > >> Hi Abdussalam, >> At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> >>> or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >>> issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >>> consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >>> diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. >>> >> >> The following persons commented on the thread about the draft: >> >> 1. Arturo Servin >> 2. Juliao Braga >> 3. Lars Eggert >> 4. Stephen Farrell >> 5. Eliot Lear >> 6. Adrian Farrel >> 7. Suresh Krishnan >> 8. Spencer Dawkins >> 9. Abdussalam Baryun >> >> Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. What is a diverse >> group? Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate with the >> diverse group? >> >> Regards, >> S. Moonesamy >> ______________________________**_________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/diversity >> > From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 08:17:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6CF21F9F44 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.097, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H9V6N9VsKtRA for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x229.google.com (mail-pd0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA7921F9F3D for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id r10so3039957pdi.0 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=h9o/kTcbOpryqVeGVpVpxxdsAreXGbFSVrGFAjyuPpE=; b=B99eScHQG7lERSJHhSWGgTEIzUfMHty7BJX8zXDZC1pcwRtKHBJoQnya2Tfk2+Cbr9 E4k9LrgNaIF2BOfEeN5zBDAFhVZ6i7I4sPDGrFoxSfPI/KMIjEYLR6klSv5qVfe9UCLH qVaeEJZId5m96JIqDO7Svp8Alp/Qeh5xojm++75E35Y1Pd9LTQsJUQOKVp3BpSXBAOmw W9d1390TCxYF6XAE7UBZYUlZskuNF6yiR3uIlfbWFVsPSsdmV7JgF2WmTIXBJHMJh4FM XjUSKRyjimmkvF25AyRnaYYTrc+LIiGCuWmjm8XV5TOQkbITxfIunp5mnHx5ZcAaagUX 1Q1Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.67.3.103 with SMTP id bv7mr16600760pad.15.1377962236674; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.195.168 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:17:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:17:16 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: diversity@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 15:17:19 -0000 On 8/31/13, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi SM, > > Thanks for the revision and the notes. > >> Adrian Farrel mentioned the following [2]: >> >> "If you are unable or feel unable to do so, it is your responsibility >> to report the misconduct so that it is handled." >> >> Some people may not feel comfortable raising such a matter with an >> unknown person. > > I recognise this, but I don't know the solution. The solution is that WG chairs or ADs SHOULD spot any discomforte that is not related to IETF culture, and report the issue to make sure it does not happen again. The report SHOULD go to the General Area Director to mention in such draft related to that Area. > If the victim does not report, and the witness does not report, it becomes > a > little hard for knowledge of the event to reach those who might act. > This logic regrettably causes the installation of large numbers of CCTV > camera > around many public spaces In IETF, we only need CCTV in IETF meetings, which I beleive we already have. However, I think all acts/reacts in IETF can be witnessed by ALL specially by managments that include ADs and WG chairs. Therefore, I think in IETF we already have witnesses. > >> Making it the person's responsibility creates an >> uncomfortable situation. Do the community want Area Directors to act >> on a report where A says: "I heard B being rude to C"? B can deny it >> or it may not be clear what was said. > > This AD wants to hear such reports and to act. > But please be aware that "act" does not mean "go from report directly to > punishment with no intervening steps". > Instead, it includes research, judge impact, assess context, speak to > offender. > IMHO, the responsibility is on ALL IETFers, we SHOULD not agree with any wrong action witnessed. We don't need punishment, just ADs SHOULD make announcements of who is wrong/mistaken or who is doing something out of IETF culture. Some people in IETF may not know what is IETF culture/procedures/BCPs. >> There is also the question of off-list messages. Is that something >> an Area Director should take PR-action on? > > Actually, yes. > I think a personal email in the context of IETF work is within scope, just > as an > personal interaction in the corridors of a hotel late at night around the > dates > of an IETF meeting is in scope. I agree, > >> Adrian Farrel mentioned that: >> >> 'If the "code of conduct" is breached in a public forum, the >> very first step should be for the community to act.' >> >> Is there someone who is not an Area Director or IAB member who will >> stand up if there is a breach of the guidelines for conduct? > > If you care to wait until March 2015, you can count me in. (Or you can > organise > a recall if you want it sooner ;-) > > But this is a serious and important point. It is the choice between being a > community/social group, and being a policed grouping. That is, if we as > individuals are not prepared to speak up, then we rely on appointed officers > to > detect, investigate, judge, and punish. I would be sad if this was the case > in > the IETF. IMHO, we already in IETF have a special police system which includes ADs, the ADs monitor all participants practices within WGs, but if these ADs make mistake or did not monitor few things, then I think one social group or appointed-officer to remind ADs can be a good idea. That officer will help some people that fear the difficult communication modes of IETF (which is sadly already known in IETF). Usually I experienced that ADs assign WG chairs, so IMHO, they mostly back them up, therefore, an officer that can back up the community memebrs is very important in such situations (the difficult-situations). We need balance and diversity in judments so ADs and Community-Appointed-Officers work together but they have different duties. AB From arturo.servin@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 09:30:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9523311E8158 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMoi1846Q2BT for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-x235.google.com (mail-gh0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12ABA11E8156 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gh0-f181.google.com with SMTP id z12so706221ghb.26 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LDb5feGgIRXTz4y0jh/mfl6BDbRjX8PJidJrI6Ku8K8=; b=ZlSr228M4nz3B2mRwncSNlC5SCB4AxTfNEP7TJb5KVerYWLImICpeXKRNQDuWBn0hV SX+0ykGLaYmGgMBggNow4GX3Tbc9eEhVt/7mH3CQEWOPkqIGdkuBY8TjETcjs+r5HHqV RJLsM4Fdkc26DLndTRCsVP5y4YXgMGAPGLDdrxKTR7OaUU2AMom9TcFaNur1Ac6Qw5Ad 6v5RIR9wyAkN/5mhgexcTit+4Nq82MXg1ReNZ+H9YjfuI8/mrbZlSFL60cBSCPl9sICe 4i+zZpkXsFFrWynIGm8PDS8zTb9w4o8zFTx8GThxJfXxF4s42lpo+tEhM6CRwXymhbKt ljMQ== X-Received: by 10.236.144.169 with SMTP id n29mr13396220yhj.46.1377966641537; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (r186-48-253-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy. [186.48.253.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h66sm4648017yhb.7.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52221A28.306@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:30:32 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:30:42 -0000 Replying various emails at once. I think that the group that commented the draft is diverse, obvious it would be better a more diverse group but for a starting point it looks good. I consider that this list is good to space to discuss initally the draft before going to the general-list. And I do not think that we need a WG for it. The bourocracy to set up a WG, to manage, etc. would be like an elephant shut gun to kill a mouse. Finally, I think that the General AD (the IETF chair if I am not mistaken) is well aware and concerned about this topic of diversity. I haven't read the latest version of the draft but I will do next week and to send some comments here. Have a nice weekend, as On 8/31/13 7:27 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > At 14:14 30-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> or needs director sponser. We still have no WG that considers the >> issues related to diversity, it seems like we have in IETF a team that >> consider that but I prefered that BCP related to be done by >> diverse-group not a non-diverse-group. > > The following persons commented on the thread about the draft: > > 1. Arturo Servin > 2. Juliao Braga > 3. Lars Eggert > 4. Stephen Farrell > 5. Eliot Lear > 6. Adrian Farrel > 7. Suresh Krishnan > 8. Spencer Dawkins > 9. Abdussalam Baryun > > Let's assume that the above is a non-diverse group. What is a diverse > group? Which IETF mailing list should I use to communicate with the > diverse group? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From arturo.servin@gmail.com Sat Aug 31 09:35:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765F821F88B4 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bSEEq0+bQJzo for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-x22f.google.com (mail-yh0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6692921F999D for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 29so802322yhl.6 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1kzvfJgZ97uojkWeSDs15m2E3dkPxGxMhh5335gxno4=; b=krEzSfKkZZHYQWjxS553V9OstAkBbBXuG1+i0BzJFEg7p3fXfhuap/jE5pX0JP+g0u 7FFXmM3aAUKEyOZdf2fJZhNDJ31H9H9DveBSV6dhGcvJOh+wjFp/J7xy9PAucaCFqXEc 4VfGrp6arpwEi11DMV2W4lzTVYo8O5cIK9AjHWjyoSYa4hoMnOS5LUiThNhAJOUR4F+u Q3oxLYBU6Y3V6n7VVOagWQcJ1PUkcEoVDPxXkUVK03fzPTbp2BdZeyb2tuQ1oeMQ6pfn aEPeO4OFd4evP6TMYteojfMPMrnMBKZVE0v2cB+u8Kd5SDld5I6+pgufD3H5H0r3wedu Tg6A== X-Received: by 10.236.155.166 with SMTP id j26mr13574863yhk.6.1377966953005; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (r186-48-253-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy. [186.48.253.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g25sm4689476yhg.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52221B65.6010501@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 13:35:49 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Abdussalam Baryun References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <9AF8B072-87CE-475C-A503-88E59AC34BAC@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , "Eggert, Lars" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:35:59 -0000 Abdussalam No, we do not need a WG. As I said the process to set up and manage a WG just for one draft are over killing. A WG for diversity matters may probably be, but even there I am not sure. /as On 8/31/13 11:00 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > I like that All IETF documents get to last call IETF so we already > request the broad-community comments, but we need special WG that > represent community and welcomes new participants to the WORKS, but > the team designed does not have welcoming new memebrs/participants I > already tried, the team is assigned by management not by community, so > any work the team do is not open enough nor diverse enough. comments > below: From dhc@dcrocker.net Sat Aug 31 09:43:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500F321F8DDD for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iGCz2-ukXc8T for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA1221F8CDD for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.116] (cpe-76-93-128-131.san.res.rr.com [76.93.128.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7VGgw4X002536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:43:01 -0700 Message-ID: <52221D0A.2090003@dcrocker.net> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:42:50 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allison Mankin References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 16:43:08 -0000 On 8/31/2013 7:04 AM, Allison Mankin wrote: > If people who send sharp responses hesitate more, and people who are > nervous think more about what we can accomplish, list participation > might become more diverse. (Hesitate and, even better, use more moderate tone.) You're describing worthy goals, which leads to the question: How do we achieve them? How do we help those with an aggressive style (learn) to be more moderate? How do we help those with a more cautious style to be more adventuresome -- and help the rest of us make their adventure be comfortable? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 10:45:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEE521F88FB for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wgdTAQwD2FK2 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A028121F8C0C for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.159.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7VHjSA9015973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377971148; bh=bDGrVJ254moDDgidZVpxRmFgEEmUQ1MBiF43ya418AU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=0e+N6DgrIA7bkMV7dONSrMKQfjrGrWFALhlBEE5BknVnowgz13fLvWuMtK5EcXFbo rOF3ekoov5PnRoPFVCOuYqtIRlbvPIqlhS0D9RVCtD+91zuwY2LSF/qb0Arz31PePv ntK0WLrmpWEFniaZjMr+t9bcIueyEmVsCdki6ZvI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377971148; i=@elandsys.com; bh=bDGrVJ254moDDgidZVpxRmFgEEmUQ1MBiF43ya418AU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=JpaNppRZP53Yy2bfYicftXjTytGTIDySvy9Rd5FiNf80pazrMMlnOH/j+sL0hCg60 hG1zawKInsdpW4nulqOTnVh2BBg+DnQabUzjQeQqyBkxcbo53nL87GCqpM9UEKEesm vOBaUQiMONaccJU2H6HHacweA4Tbz1fpLxv6EQWo= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831090858.0b9641f8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:40:30 -0700 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:45:52 -0000 Hi Adrian, At 04:24 31-08-2013, Adrian Farrel wrote: >I recognise this, but I don't know the solution. >If the victim does not report, and the witness does not report, it becomes a >little hard for knowledge of the event to reach those who might act. >This logic regrettably causes the installation of large numbers of CCTV camera >around many public spaces Yes. >This AD wants to hear such reports and to act. >But please be aware that "act" does not mean "go from report directly to >punishment with no intervening steps". >Instead, it includes research, judge impact, assess context, speak >to offender. > >Actually, yes. >I think a personal email in the context of IETF work is within >scope, just as an >personal interaction in the corridors of a hotel late at night >around the dates >of an IETF meeting is in scope. Ok. >If you care to wait until March 2015, you can count me in. (Or you >can organise >a recall if you want it sooner ;-) I'll be patient. :-) >But this is a serious and important point. It is the choice between being a >community/social group, and being a policed grouping. That is, if we as >individuals are not prepared to speak up, then we rely on appointed >officers to >detect, investigate, judge, and punish. I would be sad if this was the case in >the IETF. You said it better than I could. Let's see who says that he or she will stand up. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 10:45:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846F321F8D0D for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chw3OsPnb4iM for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A54D21F8B35 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.159.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7VHjSA5015973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377971140; bh=XLNM+1kbCCkV6Eujd+F8v6K3ScSjbO4NG0UzKjdejck=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=t5JNjGKwp/ozKtgvqKfNhFQ5sL2pAUiyyMwbyZMj+ttK0KKXY0idrMol9Lq7Az8GJ 45rB8kx3U1pQrugxfXlBnIrx9/wOFlSlv5DuXSM3EIZ1KmI9y+BroHV8Ky6d39jlUZ FJSKjyMIMBxGPQmcwV0hPv5flc/cqClqAzq8o1EM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377971140; i=@elandsys.com; bh=XLNM+1kbCCkV6Eujd+F8v6K3ScSjbO4NG0UzKjdejck=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=4z8VguaaxWPOWLsnFTwykkiZXTx8EpkIKqA4Va2/pahZHaN2rVK0cHHFvpUyDRAPm Md+T8x5LJtYO6xAouWAokSQjlSo6KFdR9RKqd4kaj2hKQKugAjVC80yyAPCdHz+zch gJ+gKA5H/VKxuovlRznUVQOaHKevB1HYOQZfKTlU= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831072330.0b963cd8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:16:21 -0700 To: Allison Mankin From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:45:52 -0000 Hi Allison, At 07:04 31-08-2013, Allison Mankin wrote: >I've observed over the years that I have a high threshhold for >sending email to a mailing list. Speaking only for myself, I almost >always get at least some private responses, and they inflict >discomfort often enough for me to not enjoy this communication mode. Many thanks for saying this. The private responses inflicting discomfort might be one of the reasons why people may be wary of sending email to a mailing list. The public responses can have a chilling effect on people who have not commented. There is an interesting comment at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg81773.html My guess is that there is a significant number of people (old and new) who are wary to get involved in IETF discussions. >The group you listed are people who demonstrably are less inclined >to hesitation. I read that Facebook has signs up that say "What >could I accomplish if I wasn't afraid?" I am trying to remember it >for more situations. :-) >If people who send sharp responses hesitate more, and people who are >nervous think more about what we can accomplish, list participation >might become more diverse. I would look at it differently. If there were more people who send non-sharp responses sharp responses would not be seen as the average. There was another interesting comment on a mailing list. I'll quote it selectively: There was a group that were determined to do X. So I didn't see much benefit in pushing my view. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 10:45:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26FC21F88FB for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.051, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAxV9q9SI3km for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F297121F8574 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.159.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r7VHjSA7015973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1377971144; bh=5m+z8eeHh2EeYVszugo0EXnVL7QUPUbm6Hq3nawdG4U=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=vSBuhOW4uJyHxnBLk/nI0q0RmwzdPKDk5gIURhPsixBadxALtBzNLEBDFT7crglhg EbbM/pbiwksLMm2+wJhNSHF47aDcM/SeYlBm9+RT+iuq/UkLfBvUm6gv530UH6OFte 0bl24dAfVdvS4ZfYJgDuE6wdf4dH0He06hHSybC8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1377971144; i=@elandsys.com; bh=5m+z8eeHh2EeYVszugo0EXnVL7QUPUbm6Hq3nawdG4U=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=yLj8KwBr885kGWaRvgwNq1D1o5Lb4E8LU2mp68NCChWWIHa/8dwvZJjVBIM4vGxMl 6MIUdgRSJG88uQBkc66rcyyCgBDd6Tcy7o0vf0A90t5TlO/FzymNkeTqz20Q0WPV7e tWUzGSw6X5t8xyRWr6QGCLqT+uSkZsr1wKt38sfY= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831081853.0b9831d0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:07:18 -0700 To: Abdussalam Baryun From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130817111150.0c44e700@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130825070026.07187dc0@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130827082359.0d7b3b88@resistor.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831031136.0bca90b0@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Diverse-group or non-diverse-group (was: IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:45:53 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, At 07:20 31-08-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >The above are IETF participants that read the draft, and they are >interested in the related General Area problem. Does the General Area >director care about this document, please check with the AD and reply. >The above names may help to form a new WG as an IETF General Area WG. If I ask the General Area Director whether he cares about this draft he will have to reply yes. I can then argue that a WG is needed for it. I am not making the life of the General Area Director easier by doing that. As such I prefer not to ask that question. >If I was an AD, my answer is that your draft to be discussed in both >IETF-list and in this diversity list, and that we try to issue a new >WG in General area, so that we can make things more specific for BCP >related to such problems. I plan to discuss the draft on the main IETF mailing list at some point. >In conclusion, to make the draft with better quality, my personal >answer to your question is to communicate (i.e. seek comments) with >the above persons and try to find others that make the diverse >direction (ex: find different ages, different gender, different >world-region participants, ..etc). The reason I posted a message about the revision of the draft is to seek comments. If people are not inclined to comment on this mailing list it is not a good omen for the other issues unrelated to the draft. In my opinion a working group also makes mistakes. I would not define what is a diverse group. I should send less messages to this mailing list as the amount of messages can be a burden for others. Regards, S. Moonesamy From dhc@dcrocker.net Sat Aug 31 10:52:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAA121E80D4 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBhLud5iCfFZ for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8639021E80D0 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.29.102.244] (wsip-184-191-162-57.sd.sd.cox.net [184.191.162.57]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r7VHpfBj003457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:51:44 -0700 Message-ID: <52222D25.7090705@dcrocker.net> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:51:33 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831013906.0c31fe10@elandnews.com> <0a7001cea63c$b44bd400$1ce37c00$@olddog.co.uk> <6.2.5.6.2.20130831090858.0b9641f8@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831090858.0b9641f8@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Sat, 31 Aug 2013 10:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF Guidelines for Conduct - draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:52:01 -0000 On 8/31/2013 9:40 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > >> If you care to wait until March 2015, you can count me in. (Or you can >> organise >> a recall if you want it sooner ;-) > > I'll be patient. :-) The politics of a recall for this sort of reason could be entertaining enough to be worth trying out. It's summer. Things are boring... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 22:20:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8400511E8124 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PoV0BKZ-yH-x for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F50C11E8120 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.159.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r815KK1m017025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1378012832; bh=reB/BnxmnHFGIfzxDZH55eOkwQMz8VazK8+dtwwJcvQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=qFrVVYzW9t55dGTyCW+ceqXVT99A8MlboVHKymvPoZAPPuzMkWOBbfRb++z2eOUj+ 3hTQl7zRl5jMvf1j8XHU3ymntwon1ty7WdaOx4ePuVVVLpimR20B7evdTFCwl4Soux zsS1sT9TF6QxOLkQw3UW6Pfr8eMOWaWjvHaR+UWk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1378012832; i=@elandsys.com; bh=reB/BnxmnHFGIfzxDZH55eOkwQMz8VazK8+dtwwJcvQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=QicXmCmXq+SkSCwN30KnQEQ1iZjoky/pWatQeXmKjlPmTpi2PfW/pkqoOdVpL6V7N iMcy1iCRKG4gKtbPFr+mCnE9qdgabF4l0/alcDWRMw78GCEv3J8btjBCrY09CcFMS0 NomcoIdWzH7nUbpnTKxnIPYIIIYMIezRwraBDtac= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831210355.0aeb4278@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 21:16:53 -0700 To: diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Diversity] draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 - impartially X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 05:20:34 -0000 Hello, There is the following text in draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01: "IETF participants develop and test ideas impartially without finding fault with the colleague proposing the idea." I received an off-list comment about the word "impartiality". The word is better suited to decision-making. For example, the Area director or the Working Group Chair acts impartially. An IETF participant cannot act impartially. I propose to drop that word from the sentence. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Sat Aug 31 22:20:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E14B11E81C5 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9TolGUx8AfnU for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A1811E81C3 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.159.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r815KK1o017025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2013 22:20:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1378012835; bh=GsGdGkOWtJli2/htlXS930xroU2/WMMIhcTNHme+BJM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=YTfPxPi5TN1n7wrzJ/92cyEvkiShBJMPDEGoaX/gBvIUc1g/k6PoyZNJxeOBevmv1 Rq8+PjXHOcaUYY1KwxomVIzxPEiCw6SBnCEkyWgTbT0DpyQXNNI85E4eOicE89kaOb cr5PHyHaQIAtBS/Kl+l0SCYPYFxHbPj0tyCI3qq8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1378012835; i=@elandsys.com; bh=GsGdGkOWtJli2/htlXS930xroU2/WMMIhcTNHme+BJM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=mkfRCocDvXBLDR7gt+7b64BjNQpC68/vkp4p6u4ziKhfYKkS/9IsK2f1BBVD7+Zx8 Cc3j7VRwoAxCVMgCeAMpmB0N4J6sulBfDxxUQYObA9XVJoIUkbOw2nrHxNQBjctyaU cPbYpFAth6lOcU550fh17Ci71HSPjNHF2jNKAXjc= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130831211723.0aeb8660@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 21:46:15 -0700 To: diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Diversity] draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01 - intimidation or personal attack X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2013 05:20:37 -0000 Hello, There is the following text in draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-01: "We dispute ideas by using reasoned argument rather than through intimidation or personal attack." How do I disagree with what you said without it being viewed as intimidation or a personal attack? To say it differently, it is possible for the other person to consider what I wrote as intimidating. I'll list a few scenarios: An Area Director says X. Some people will likely be intimidated and will not say anything to contradict the Area Director. It can be said that the Area Director is intimidating. A well-known IETF participant says X. Some people will likely be intimidated or not be comfortable to disagree with that participant. An unknown IETF participant says X. A lot of people disagree with the participant. The participant will likely be intimidated. Let's say I write to you and say: Your request come from a clear lack of understanding of the IETF or how it works. Is that a personal attack? Regards, S. Moonesamy