From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Oct 1 02:53:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC68E21F9D0A for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tezqXU0ALVgO for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58EC21F9C6A for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id y13so6965006pdi.19 for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=lWXaHtfKhbqvzOlu2rQ8t49Tv3dRb2r+dVeOqJecSeY=; b=MTWi/tSo736v5Ns8GlexLVjY92ZjtjaobCBDX8xaoYZrOVtGl5JHtgivVeQkkXTt90 F1V/+iNV3NMbj9WuX1+vjN0wmlaoiHaDDluwk+4zC1aEM7EvgFwsDXkVyOuFuVYdlFgm czA6+gxYnY/ZSMcUk8/wM+mV6Z2uLTI/xMFW8SDxt8wvpScGbq3284Sx/Ru3d2zhLLKt IlmJXj43OHhoepOYofTcRG09z4t8iH3WPdXgUycwptQOWNmFFz2K38ElPDvG50p6TVq/ fC5DrS+UclHOJyduYy1CZEG1H21NuJEq7o7hOD6FVMg8BlV5AfMeO/NDmI1OxrLPq2fk 5WuQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.162.73 with SMTP id xy9mr2068080pab.172.1380621222630; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.69.8.5 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130930160205.0b780c18@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930160205.0b780c18@elandnews.com> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 10:53:42 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bacc3ca8b5bf104e7aaedf4 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:53:44 -0000 --047d7bacc3ca8b5bf104e7aaedf4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ok, I will work on another draft to provide different aim related to diversity and regions considered by the IETF, AB On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:47 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Abdussalam, > > At 11:12 30-09-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> The draft states some of my interests and my past advise to add regions >> into IETF, and that many participants of other regions are having >> difficulties to work in IETF. I think the solutions in the draft need >> additions or recommendations to IETF managements. IMHO, the draft should >> consider how the management/Current-Practice should form to encourage such >> aim. >> > > I volunteered for only part of one of the initiatives. My understanding > is that part does not include how the IETF "management should form". The > draft does not provide solutions. > > > At 11:26 30-09-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > >> I like the goal, but it is not clear, the document is it procedure or >> informational, it seems like information or recommendation, but why not >> providing clear recommendations as one objective. >> > > The draft makes suggestions. I don't know the answer for the above. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > --047d7bacc3ca8b5bf104e7aaedf4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ok, I will work on another draft to provide different= aim related to diversity and regions considered by the IETF,
=A0=
AB


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:47 AM, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com= > wrote:
Hi Abdussalam,

At 11:12 30-09-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
The draft states some of my interests and my past advise to add regions int= o IETF, and that many participants of other regions are having difficulties= to work in IETF. I think the solutions in the draft need additions or reco= mmendations to IETF managements. IMHO, the draft should consider how the ma= nagement/Current-Practice should form to encourage such aim.

I volunteered for only part of one of the initiatives. =A0My understanding = is that part does not include how the IETF "management should form&quo= t;. =A0The draft does not provide solutions.


At 11:26 30-09-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote:
I like the goal, but it is not clear, the document is it procedure or infor= mational, it seems like information or recommendation, but why not providin= g clear recommendations as one objective.

The draft makes suggestions. =A0I don't know the answer for the above.<= br>
Regards,
S. Moonesamy

--047d7bacc3ca8b5bf104e7aaedf4-- From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 02:57:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1114D21F99C3 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.534 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.065, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lYOH+YOyPHvl for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10A821F8E97 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.129.107]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r919v7eg002774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 02:57:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380621439; bh=X40vsfvElgYeNlGXxRABeAWuriLdvUyVFSTXSdtHIrM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=HRZsi459lcNNKNffyV19IqRBXLm8kWVOuV628hiuXaYd51MGDDuAPs5BKhaprBRjg g5AdvWk3OjfC7Ra+GNJbVurUatwmTL6YNsfU6PTqJ4A9fVPlnZQ2nnOPy5S2gLLpOJ rGVI50sJetWFtSOmx9F01FySQMMaO/S1OugVk/cU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380621439; i=@elandsys.com; bh=X40vsfvElgYeNlGXxRABeAWuriLdvUyVFSTXSdtHIrM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=SimE3qR67E0BtXJKwHZHhGnHYXN9iOmoWeCNjeOEZVMguu8kFR0IvEVmIzMWPITcp MXhg+KV+lfz+23xnx0fCChOJZ5ApLxTOtPrFNUn1uY9E2MD/S5S/anIzcfoqqVFfew HECKmun7md/2b9hNfvcG4qwZX2ddMKhr8MZO8wo0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001000730.0afd0360@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 01:28:55 -0700 To: Suresh Krishnan From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <524A5E2F.7010707@ericsson.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <524A5E2F.7010707@ericsson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, "Moriarty, Kathleen" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 09:57:38 -0000 Hi Suresh, At 22:31 30-09-2013, Suresh Krishnan wrote: >One meta issue: I would also like the draft to include people from >"developed" regions who would not ordinarily have the means to attend an >IETF meeting. These folks are usually left out from the outreach >programs and would be worth evaluating as well. The first sentence of the draft says: "The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to determine how to address issues such as geographic diversity." The draft then mentions "emerging regions". The programme lists "emerging and developing economies into the IETF" as the target and the draft mentions "emerging regions" in "expectations of the IETF". I can remove the "geographic diversity" from the Introduction Section. The only issue is what to have in the text about "expectations of the IETF". Initiative 1 (a) mentions "from under-represented groups". My quick reaction would be to list the meta issue as an open issue in the draft and ask you to take up the issue with the IETF Community. Note that I did ask for feedback about the "means to attend an IETF meeting" instead of ignoring the problem ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg82742.html ). >Section 2: > >Split into two sections/subsections: One describing the current >program(s) and the other describing the issues. I like Dave's idea to >point to the original programs as well. I have that in my working copy. >Consider adding the ANRP here as one of the current programs as it is >certainly open to participants from emerging regions I thought about that. My preference is to leave ANRP for Aaron as there's already a long term goal in the draft (see the exchange I had with Dave Crocker). >Section 3: > >Consider removing the last criterion as I explained above. I already commented (see above). >Section 4: > >I think there should be a distinction between who nominates and who >evaluates. My view is that the WG chairs should nominate and and an >evaluation panel could be appointed each year (like the ANRP selection >committee). Even though interested ADs could participate, I am not a big >fan of adding more mandatory work to the already difficult IESG job. In my opinion there isn't a nomination and evaluation model. I suggest taking up that discussion with the IETF Community. The text relevant to Area Directors was in response to a comment from an Area Director. There are a few Area Directors reading this list. They can drop me a note if that's a problem. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 03:15:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1450921F8F9A for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 03:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A3LJexjuzuoV for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 03:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CB821F9635 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 03:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.129.107]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r91AEedh001574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 03:14:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380622493; bh=ypfTSr3kW5D8/tdnahD53no6qBROJ2R7Zw7hxG5tmb4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=nLAvthyVB4hlA3Q6TPTeZPvD3yA/I0OX3U48IHz+VtHP0qrGnwPfuKxPGISNoS1/I YUek5GT8Lqj199zZghyCxAB42T74RMUYd/R2ejXaeuhP0eFD5mzpOWHNYDC9bBJCEW GRJR0OXHnX5vK6cyE5JpjrxoiDPGStPat+dIHiPE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380622493; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ypfTSr3kW5D8/tdnahD53no6qBROJ2R7Zw7hxG5tmb4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=UkBsF0N5hETciEwHpHeJNrEqANDy+UuxtM+T4CcEpOEm3r3tmlnM9I11NNePlI1OR oOrSNGwYdLNFETDehxBl7bSrBXIZSSeXAwJh/4CpKXqE+rYGFO0rwWeyAYq/0tkJj5 bIAdsc4Fot90yOR2mLM38XlegqFr03foIxqQDYH0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001030742.0cf50c20@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 03:13:50 -0700 To: Abdussalam Baryun From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930160205.0b780c18@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, "Moriarty, Kathleen" , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 10:15:13 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, At 02:53 01-10-2013, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >ok, I will work on another draft to provide different aim related to >diversity and regions considered by the IETF, That's a good initiative. I suggest discussing the matter with Kathleen Moriarty and Suresh Krishnan as they may have a better view of the initiatives relating to diversity. Regards, S. Moonesamy From lars@netapp.com Tue Oct 1 11:36:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8724E11E820F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.529 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.529 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.930, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5wxV-puWauKw for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.netapp.com (mx11.netapp.com [216.240.18.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E89221E812C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:36:11 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1014,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="55312201" Received: from vmwexceht06-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.104]) by mx11-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2013 11:36:10 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht06-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.104]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:36:10 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: "" Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOvIEUpf/VXwHv0U2r+0UbkseLRJndXT+AgANJIwA= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:36:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.118] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_59A6F0C5-4C3B-4A9A-8C44-CF504BD4819A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 18:36:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_59A6F0C5-4C3B-4A9A-8C44-CF504BD4819A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Sep 29, 2013, at 18:25, Dave Crocker wrote: > In its current form, it's difficult to distinguish between factual = descriptions/summaries of what is currently done, criticisms of problems = with the current program or with what comes after, versus proposal(s) = for new things to do. I agree with Dave. Can I ask what the *motivation* for the document it? Are you trying to = describe what ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to change what = ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to argue for another fellowship = program that would operate differently from ISOC's with goals that would = maybe - arguably - be more aligned with what the IETF wants/needs? Once that is clear we can have a conversation about the content? Lars --Apple-Mail=_59A6F0C5-4C3B-4A9A-8C44-CF504BD4819A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUksV+tZcnpRveo1xAQLjkAQAkcRzFqR8VIbURtqM4hudORgse0O/HvPb bh6cJzpScg+1OH+1x/BHj5oEjADSPkPLk6XtqWVC3/qIe84DH0xUSHznlNHzHin5 TyZnWpTzjrUL08O5OgRfTKLqpOklGDh1bl7IXrGD5x1HlvG+469aFMlIal5hiKpU X31GRh0cw5o= =Jeb1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_59A6F0C5-4C3B-4A9A-8C44-CF504BD4819A-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Tue Oct 1 11:42:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED86711E8233 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id isMiZFv+G6MY for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1B811E821E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r91IgCOn001249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:42:15 -0700 Message-ID: <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 11:41:25 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Tue, 01 Oct 2013 11:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 18:42:38 -0000 On 10/1/2013 11:36 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Can I ask what the *motivation* for the document it? Are you trying to describe what ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to change what ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to argue for another fellowship program that would operate differently from ISOC's with goals that would maybe - arguably - be more aligned with what the IETF wants/needs? Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft author, here is my current understanding of the goal: 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face contact, which is of course useful. 2. The larger goal needs to be the development of /on-going/ and /active/ participation by such individuals. 3. This requires a broader effort to include these folk, covering participation via mailing lists, as well as remote meeting attendance). 4. It probably also requires some continuing physical attendance assistance for individuals who have attended previously. If the above is not entirely off the mark, please treat it as draft text, to be massaged into acceptability. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From lars@netapp.com Tue Oct 1 12:11:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827CB11E8211 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:11:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.874, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k5-onq2ns6YB for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.netapp.com (mx11.netapp.com [216.240.18.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ACDB11E8229 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:11:38 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1015,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="55325267" Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx11-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2013 12:11:36 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:11:35 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: "" Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOvIEUpf/VXwHv0U2r+0UbkseLRJndXT+AgANJIwCAAAGegIAACFIA Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 19:11:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.118] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F9E30C23-6979-4F7B-AA52-DD71E311B232"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:11:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F9E30C23-6979-4F7B-AA52-DD71E311B232 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, On Oct 1, 2013, at 20:41, Dave Crocker wrote: > Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft author, = here is my current understanding of the goal: >=20 > 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face = contact, which is of course useful. Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to the = IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, = state-run telco people, government officials, etc.=20 And they're bringing them more in an effort to educate them about how = the IETF works, that it's equal, and open, and easy to participate in, = and that the IETF folks know their technology than with the goal that = the fellows themselves will actually begin to do standards work and = continue participation on their on money. At least that's my impression. And if that's somewhat accurate, there's = nothing wrong with that. I hope it pays off for ISOC on the political = layer, where they're fighting the good fight. But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to = help build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And = that's fine, because it wasn't designed to be. The point I'm trying to make is that the motivations for bringing in new = participants matter. ISOC has one motivation, we (the IETF) may have = another, I (with my IRTF chair hat one) certainly have yet another. > 2. The larger goal needs to be the development of /on-going/ and = /active/ participation by such individuals. Yes, if the intent is to bring in engineers to help build the net. Maybe = not so much if the focus is on educating decision makers, as ISOC tries = at least partially. > 3. This requires a broader effort to include these folk, covering = participation via mailing lists, as well as remote meeting attendance). Yep. > 4. It probably also requires some continuing physical attendance = assistance for individuals who have attended previously. Yep. But, it's a slippery slope. The pool of money is limited (and it's = ISOC's pool.) There are many good motivations for paying for someone to = attend. Once money is handed out we better have exceedingly clear = explanation why we say yes to some people and no to some others. Lars --Apple-Mail=_F9E30C23-6979-4F7B-AA52-DD71E311B232 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUkseUNZcnpRveo1xAQJo3QP/WanUadl3NShdVkp3BmppYZXRqzZkUf9i V3ncW8RkWDimPNYL1CZFDyb5XvGUcCvfN0aXqd8pFsuM3TjYcOHnfSbYUMuKtdyn SIaA5A03VlBTiwPDr+DZB0Q2n5l+tucoRP3SbanPwtUnKyCERR4LTDtvU4/yjupn xOtvNbZ+Lwk= =VINs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F9E30C23-6979-4F7B-AA52-DD71E311B232-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Tue Oct 1 13:00:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CF011E81DC for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Z8qvooRjNWt for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044DE21E805F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r91JHWRJ002717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:17:36 -0700 Message-ID: <524B1F9D.4020907@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 12:16:45 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Tue, 01 Oct 2013 12:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 20:00:17 -0000 On 10/1/2013 12:11 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Hi, > > On Oct 1, 2013, at 20:41, Dave Crocker wrote: >> Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft >> author, here is my current understanding of the goal: >> >> 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face >> contact, which is of course useful. > > Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to > the IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, > state-run telco people, government officials, etc. That's not the Fellows program, as I understand it. What you are describing is, I believe, a separate effort. > But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to > help build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. > And that's fine, because it wasn't designed to be. Well, my own sense of SM's draft is that it essentially says "the current ISOC effort is a good start, but more needs to be done, to achieve the goal of ongoing, active participation by folk from under-represented areas. >> 4. It probably also requires some continuing physical attendance >> assistance for individuals who have attended previously. > > Yep. But, it's a slippery slope. The pool of money is limited (and > it's ISOC's pool.) There are many good motivations for paying for > someone to attend. Once money is handed out we better have > exceedingly clear explanation why we say yes to some people and no to > some others. In effect, I'm seeing SM's document as a "gap analysis" of the issue, where proposals for solution are secondary to getting agreement on the nature of the need. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 13:04:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1FE21E808C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:04:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5hsjdcNOM6h2 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2A521E8259 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.149.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r91K3Zsf028820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:03:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380657832; bh=1ZetJImk9wztTcf15djnhw/DoHmgJIT12PXwxpQPhgQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=2G/dwu977uIPzvnlHonFBZwty6PVem0Gb/c2YxsBZhTk818CfAgQicSGdh727kBsW eK/t2zdxN8liMVRIP4pnH132qO4+H+PqAY3C9/J7F7lRHl1WVnlSvZ9xsZ8Rq+ODZ1 jHBowXarJZ9Fv6eJrKcd6qynWOKmLbRBNsPe899o= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380657832; i=@elandsys.com; bh=1ZetJImk9wztTcf15djnhw/DoHmgJIT12PXwxpQPhgQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=mELewI3ehlLFck4Hq5q1dRMaWKF3Ugqx/91AQ11NKSVBg2BSAK7Bo+WiJtkZLFHUQ fI0W2Tk3389r4wiVBntihkPFD/SAZVZ+NfJsFbuR8r/IJp8NsPdTc2ijxKICrg2d7p PsR1V23u9+7NB+k9XyTQKIoAI2mhgki4lru8Cumw= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001121743.0d1d66d8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 13:02:39 -0700 To: "Eggert, Lars" From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, "Moriarty, Kathleen" , Suresh Krishnan , dcrocker@bbiw.net Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 20:04:09 -0000 Hi Lars, At 12:11 01-10-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to >the IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, >state-run telco people, government officials, etc. The draft does not discuss about that part. >And they're bringing them more in an effort to educate them about >how the IETF works, that it's equal, and open, and easy to >participate in, and that the IETF folks know their technology than >with the goal that the fellows themselves will actually begin to do >standards work and continue participation on their on money. Is the above related to the political layer (see above) or is it related to the ISOC Fellowship programme as described at http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/ietf-and-ois-programmes/internet-society-fellowship ? >Yep. But, it's a slippery slope. The pool of money is limited (and >it's ISOC's pool.) There are many good motivations for paying for >someone to attend. Once money is handed out we better have >exceedingly clear explanation why we say yes to some people and no >to some others. In my opinion the above is similar to the comments from Dave Crocker, Stephen Farrell and Adrian Farrel. At 11:36 01-10-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >Can I ask what the *motivation* for the document it? Are you trying >to describe what ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to change >what ISOC is currently doing? Are you trying to argue for another >fellowship program that would operate differently from ISOC's with >goals that would maybe - arguably - be more aligned with what the >IETF wants/needs? As I mentioned previously, and quoting text from the draft: "The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to determine how to address issues such as geographic diversity." Section 2 of the (new) draft describes the objective of the programme. As background about the effort, I volunteered for the "ISOC fellowship" part which is one of the initiatives identified by the Diversity Design Team. I quote part of a message posted to this mailing list: "I note that you said you hadn't seen any tickets come through yet, and I wonder if that is because people have not noticed the existence of the wiki (that applies to me) or feel reticent about proposing that they take on some of the work." I did notice the wiki. My preference was to leave it to other persons to make their first choice. As nobody volunteered I chose the first item for which I can try to provide an answer to "exceedingly clear explanation why we say yes". I am not trying to change what ISOC is currently doing. What I did was to solicit comments about "more participation from emerging and developing economies" ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00336.html ). The draft (or I) does not argue about another fellowship programme. What it does is discuss about "be more aligned about what the IETF wants/needs"? Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 13:58:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB2A11E8238 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:58:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.990, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoZfqSKrFjTY for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E7211E8211 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.149.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r91KvuCR006339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380661089; bh=7q8PH1XSt+RnQnbMcuhYe4UIbLRFG6WCcGRN4rAPtTc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=MbuZ3loKtfOacdwkJaXO7AsaAznfjIWKuP11IQkFuh/zcboqLcSsgLgZsa6GgnpZl f4EZ5DjLK9iISL5tGOQnJTqSbOttAId3gsliYN3QrUgcbVChH1d90bsENVbFbObGhh TQL4EZV/nqAMxKPkAKQc1OAoe1TGiadhPhi5kJNw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380661089; i=@elandsys.com; bh=7q8PH1XSt+RnQnbMcuhYe4UIbLRFG6WCcGRN4rAPtTc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=wRS6RXQCudrmieKrzm7ZZLJUWOhEplONxfA2uHxGnv6ChNjwwS+b4JoxHW5sakNKA A9763tbmZRi//3914V6yfXPUIffgGcQKXKxs126sBEXhJ1XfjiS6VR0hM2vL/BNWcq cSRoG5BBX3Cao4UvQnPNAbXSD4F04N965QFElFQI= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001120842.0a92c3e0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 13:53:56 -0700 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_22603172==_" Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 20:58:31 -0000 --=====================_22603172==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Dave, At 11:41 01-10-2013, Dave Crocker wrote: >Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft >author, here is my current understanding of the goal: > > 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face > contact, which is of course useful. > > 2. The larger goal needs to be the development of /on-going/ > and /active/ participation by such individuals. > > 3. This requires a broader effort to include these folk, > covering participation via mailing lists, as well as remote meeting > attendance). > > 4. It probably also requires some continuing physical > attendance assistance for individuals who have attended previously. > > >If the above is not entirely off the mark, please treat it as draft >text, to be massaged into acceptability. I already added the above based on our previous exchange. I am attaching a new version of the draft. The changes in version -01 are: - Added the text Dave Crocker suggested in Section 1 as it was not clear what the draft was about. - Rearrangement of the text in Section 2 to document the existing programme - Added references - Issues section renamed to Expectations of the IETF - Changes to the guidance in response to comments from Vinayak Hegde and Alejandro Acosta. - Added comments from Suresh as an open issue. Regards, S. Moonesamy --=====================_22603172==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ddt-fellowship-01.txt" S. Moonesamy Expires: April 4, 2014 October 1, 2013 Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF draft-ddt-fellowship-01 1. Introduction The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to determine how to address issues such as geographic diversity. There is already an ISOC Fellowship programme to the IETF for participants from emerging regions. This document attempts to address the challenge of attracting people from emerging regions who can contribute to IETF work into the IETF. Section 2 lists the objectives of the existing ISOC Fellowship programme and the selection criteria. The current programme does help new participants to establish an initial face-to-face contact. However, long-term benefit requires helping these participants to engage in the full range of IETF interactions. The most effective way to contribute to the IETF is through on-going active participation and by reviewing and commenting about working group drafts. There are suggestions in Section 4 to align the ISOC Fellowship programme with the expectations of the IETF by having selection criteria that encourages active IETF participation, and by having an evaluation panel with the expertise to evaluate IETF contributions. 2. Existing support for participants from emerging regions 2.1. Objectives of the ISOC Fellowship programme The Internet Society has provided significant financial support given that attendance by technologists from emerging and developing economies is currently limited [FEL]. It is considered that actually attending an event promotes a stronger understanding of the standards process, encourages active involvement in IETF work, and facilitates personal networking with others that have similar technical interests [FEL]. The main purpose [FEL] of the ISOC Fellowship programme is to: - Raise global awareness about the IETF and its work. - Foster greater understanding of, and participation in, the work Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 1] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 1, 2013 of the IETF by technologists from emerging and developing economies. - Provide an opportunity for networking with individuals from around the world with similar technical interests. - Identify and foster potential future leaders from emerging and developing economies - Demonstrate the Internet community's commitment to fostering greater global participation in Internet Forums such as the IETF. The goals of the ISOC Returning fellowship programme [RET] are to: - Provide an opportunity for highly committed former Fellows to return to the IETF to advance specific standards work. - More fully integrate technologists from emerging and developing economies into the IETF. - Advance the technical leadership potential of individuals from emerging and developing economies. - Provide immediate value to a working group by participating in scribing the working group meeting and contributing to the meeting minutes. 2.2. Selection criteria for the ISOC Fellowship programme Some of the requirements [SEL] for qualifying for ISOC Fellowship programme are: - Hold a university-level computer science, information technology, or similar degree, or can demonstrate similar and relevant work experience. - Be employed in a technical or technical management capacity with a data network provider (including university networks), a technology vendor, a local technical association, or other similar organisation OR be a university-level computer science/information technology professor, lecturer, or student currently undertaking research in one or more areas of current IETF standardisation work. Students must be enrolled in a graduate-level program (Masters or Ph.D). - Possess a strong understanding of how the IETF relates to and impacts their work or area of study and demonstrate how specific Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 2] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 1, 2013 areas of current IETF work are relevant to their pursuits. Some of the attributes [SEL] that reflect favorably on the application are: - Involvement in one or more regional data networking organisations, such as regional operators groups - Having actively participated in the work of an IETF Working Group through the mailing lists. 3. Expectations of the IETF The objectives of the fellowship are less well aligned with the expectations of the IETF as it focuses on meeting attendance by technologists from emerging and developing economies and awareness of the IETF instead of active participation in the IETF. Although attending IETF meetings fosters an understanding of the work of the IETF it does not ensure active participation. Active participation in the work of an IETF Working Group is listed as an advantage instead of a requirement for the fellowship [SEL]. The existing selection criteria puts an emphasis on university-level qualifications and the academic interests of the applicant [SEL]. It has been mentioned in discussions about academic participation that the IETF filters out proposals from researchers simply because they just do not fit in standardization work [DIN]. The Returning Fellowship programme is a laudable initiative by the Internet Society to encourage IETF participation from emerging regions. It is unclear how the goals to integrate technologists from emerging regions into the IETF or advance the technical leadership potential of individuals from emerging regions are pursued. 4. Suggestions 4.1. Selection criteria for the fellowship The most effective way to contribute to the IETF is through active participation and by reviewing and commenting about working group drafts [FAA]. It is proposed that the applicant fulfills the following criteria: - Be proficient in English. - Can be objectively said to have actively participated in IETF activities for more than six months, and subjectively, such that those contributions are considered useful. Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 3] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 1, 2013 For example, reviewing drafts, commenting on IETF Last Calls, writing code for drafts or taking part in interop testing are fine ways to be seen to have participated. Candidates whose contributions are considered more useful should be preferred over those who are less useful. Judging utility for contributions requires knowledge of the specific field. - Resident of a country in an emerging region. 4.2. Evaluation panel It is suggested to include Area Directors or Working Group Chairs on the evaluation panel [FAS]. These people will bring in the expertise to evaluate the reviews performed by the applicant. They can also determine whether the applicant has an understanding of the work done in the IETF. It is suggested that the evaluation panel prioritize people who have been contributing over time to real IETF work. 4.3. Guidance for applicants The fellowship is about people who can demonstrate commitment and can collaborate with other IETF participants to perform IETF work. Applicants can familiarize themselves with the technologies being discussed by, for example, implementing the relevant specifications or evaluating implementations [ACS]. Applicants can ask for advice on the edu-discuss@ietf.org mailing list [EDU]. 4.4. Effectiveness of the fellowship The effectiveness of the fellowship can be assessed by tracking the IETF activities of the fellows and doing a follow-up to find out why fellows drop out. 5. Open Issue The following is left open as it may require broader feedback. There were comments to remove the "resident of a country in an emerging region" suggestion (Section 4.1) so that people from "developed" regions who would not ordinarily have the means to attend an IETF meeting are included in the programme. 6. Acknowledgements The author would like to thank Alejandro Acosta, Dave Crocker, Adrian Farrel, Stephen Farrell, Roque Gagliano, Vinayak Hegde and Kathleen Moriarty for contributing to the discussions about participation from emerging countries. Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 4] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 1, 2013 7. References [FEL] [RET] [SEL] [DIN] [FAA] [FAS] [ACS] [EDU] 8. Author's Address S. Moonesamy Email: sm+ietf@elandsys.com Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 5] --=====================_22603172==_-- From conte@isoc.org Tue Oct 1 14:18:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83A821F9FB7 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:18:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cFBOIY6fT-yr for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2lp0241.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BCC21F9F8F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.148) by BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.775.9; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 21:18:17 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.90]) by BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.90]) with mapi id 15.00.0775.005; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 21:18:17 +0000 From: Steve Conte To: "Eggert, Lars" , "" Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOvID9LNBxfJLAhkeg9XxlITaf6Jnc5+aAgANJSgCAAAF3gIAACG0A//+uCwA= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 21:18:17 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.170.168.6] x-forefront-prvs: 09860C2161 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(24454002)(189002)(199002)(51704005)(377454003)(479174003)(81542001)(81342001)(74706001)(19580395003)(74876001)(63696002)(66066001)(80022001)(76796001)(83072001)(79102001)(53806001)(81816001)(36756003)(54356001)(81686001)(76176001)(76786001)(46102001)(80976001)(74366001)(56816003)(77096001)(77982001)(59766001)(47736001)(76482001)(51856001)(54316002)(56776001)(83322001)(19580405001)(31966008)(4396001)(49866001)(65816001)(69226001)(47976001)(74662001)(47446002)(74502001)(50986001)(491001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB019; H:BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:76.170.168.6; FPR:; RD:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <1687D5AB848EDA41ADF0D0CF5BB19664@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Cc: "" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:18:42 -0000 This has been a very interesting thread and I=B9m certainly tracking this discussion. I=B9d like to say +1 to many comments that have been made, specifically by Lars, Vinayak, and Adiel. One of the goals of the ISOC Fellowship to the IETF programme is to increase IETF participation in emerging and developing economies, and thus it contributes to increasing diversity within the IETF. ISOC also has and supports other activities surrounding the increase of awareness and participation in the IETF. The fellowship is just one component. I would like to better understand how the implementation and operation of this ISOC-driven programme speaks to the larger challenge question of increasing diversity at IETF. =20 The diversity discussion at IETF is much broader than just bringing engineers from developing and emerging economies. Given that, the fellowship can contribute to addressing one aspect of the diversity challenge. One of the expectations of the fellowship programme is that the participant bring back the work and importance of the IETF and share it with their broader community. Whether it is individuals becoming directly involved in the IETF process, a university professor changing their curriculum in order to introduce the open standards development process to their students, or an ISOC chapter holding a local workshop on how to get involved, each has its own definition of =B3success=B2 as well as =B3participation=B2. However, at the end, the fellowship programme is just a component. Although we do have the support and participation (both as selection committee members as well as mentors) of some of the IETF community, it remains an external programme with its own set of goals and motivations. Steve ----- Steve Conte Internet Leadership Programme The Internet Society conte@isoc.org On 10/1/13 12:11 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >Hi, > >On Oct 1, 2013, at 20:41, Dave Crocker wrote: >> Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft author, >>here is my current understanding of the goal: >>=20 >> 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face >>contact, which is of course useful. > >Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to the >IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, state-run >telco people, government officials, etc. > >And they're bringing them more in an effort to educate them about how the >IETF works, that it's equal, and open, and easy to participate in, and >that the IETF folks know their technology than with the goal that the >fellows themselves will actually begin to do standards work and continue >participation on their on money. > >At least that's my impression. And if that's somewhat accurate, there's >nothing wrong with that. I hope it pays off for ISOC on the political >layer, where they're fighting the good fight. > >But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to >help build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And >that's fine, because it wasn't designed to be. > >The point I'm trying to make is that the motivations for bringing in new >participants matter. ISOC has one motivation, we (the IETF) may have >another, I (with my IRTF chair hat one) certainly have yet another. > >> 2. The larger goal needs to be the development of /on-going/ and >>/active/ participation by such individuals. > >Yes, if the intent is to bring in engineers to help build the net. Maybe >not so much if the focus is on educating decision makers, as ISOC tries >at least partially. > >> 3. This requires a broader effort to include these folk, covering >>participation via mailing lists, as well as remote meeting attendance). > >Yep. > >> 4. It probably also requires some continuing physical attendance >>assistance for individuals who have attended previously. > >Yep. But, it's a slippery slope. The pool of money is limited (and it's >ISOC's pool.) There are many good motivations for paying for someone to >attend. Once money is handed out we better have exceedingly clear >explanation why we say yes to some people and no to some others. > >Lars From adiel@afrinic.net Tue Oct 1 14:48:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C829621E808C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Hzypz26nE4P for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mu.afrinic.net (smtp.afrinic.net [196.6.0.202]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11CAA21E80C7 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [201.221.11.150] (port=54577 helo=[10.10.1.176]) by smtp.mu.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1VR7nC-0001V8-TW; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:47:43 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1B62373D-AB9D-4D1D-A80C-E6D071E427E6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Adiel Akplogan In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:47:31 +0400 Message-Id: <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> To: S Moonesamy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 21:48:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1B62373D-AB9D-4D1D-A80C-E6D071E427E6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello SM, On 2013-09-30, at 20:55 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. >=20 > At 03:19 30-09-2013, Adiel Akplogan wrote: >> This is a an interesting document. Thanks for working on it. Here are = few contributions and comments: >>=20 >> 1. I will suggest that that the draft goes beyond ISOC fellowship = program and set a framework for any existing of future program that aim = at improving participation and contribution from emerging economies. In = addition, I see two distinct goals: One being to attract people, and the = other one to make their participation sustainable/effective. Reading the = draft I have the impression that it mainly addresses the latest aspect = which is "sustaining participation from emerging countries". Maybe a = different draft will be needed to address more effectively the = "attracting" aspect. >=20 > I agree with the suggestion to have a document that sets a framework = for any existing or future programs that aim at improving participation = and contribution from emerging economies. It would require a lot of = effort and the collaboration of several organisations to draw up a = framework which is workable. I'm not sure, as I see in the current draft many valid principles and = requirements that can be applied to any other program that will have the = objective to make supported participation from emerging economy = sustainable/effective. =20 > I highlight the comment about goals: >=20 > (i) one being to attract people >=20 > (ii) make their participation sustainable/effective >=20 > The draft tries to address (ii), i.e. make the participation from = emerging countries effective and sustainable. Then you may want to change the title of the Draft, because the current = title is about attracting. > The first goal (i) is one which could be covered through outreach. I = left out the outreach part from the draft. =20 Ok. > I have some very rough ideas for (i). In my opinion it is unlikely = that they would bring any results without money and even then I am not = sure whether the results will be considered as significant. Then maybe open a different thread for that aspect which is critical for = this diversity team. =20 >> 2. Will it not be be more accurate to use "countries", "markets" or = "economies" instead of region? In my view it could be hard/subjective to = define an homogeneous geographic region as an emerging one. >=20 > Yes (to the last sentence). >=20 > The term "emerging regions" is used in the IETF. I could not find a = better one for the draft. Although "countries", "markets" or = "economies" are more accurate they might not fit into goal (ii) or end = up causing a disincentive to IETF Contributions. I'm not sure I'm following your here. Can you elaborate why it will not = fit in to the goal of making participation effective?=20 Also if the IETF use "emerging region" maybe that will need to be = revisited as well to align with the reality and contribute to deliver a = clear message. >> 3. When talking about "attracting" people I think the critical aspect = is to make the participation appealing to them, meaning nurturing their = interest for Open standard in general and IETF work in >> particular. So, in the document while I believe that some of the = issues are well identified, the >> proposed solutions are incomplete and lack a deeper analysis of the = reason behind the issues. For >> instance when you set as requirement that candidate must have to = participate to IETF work for 6 at least months, I doubt this can happen = naturally if there is no incentive and hand holding to get them to that = stage. One real issue we have to circumvent here is the fact that there = is no (not >=20 > I have reached out to the IETF Community to request feedback. In my = humble opinion a deeper analysis takes the work beyond what is = achievable as a volunteer effort. I believe that IETF volunteers have already worked and addressed more = complex issue than that :-). Is it that this is less important?=20 >> yet) vibrant innovation industry in these economies which could = nurture engineers/technologists interest for standards in general and = Open Standards in this particular context. So we need to find a = sustainable way to create the interest first (which can be part of any = fellowship process) and find probable interested people where they are = (universities/technology school, innovation hubs that are flourishing = all over emerging countries, = http://www.ihub.co.ke/blog/2013/05/comparative-study-on-innovation-hubs-ac= ross-africa/, Mobile Operators [R&D department] who are taking over the = Internet market in emerging market etc ..) through an effective = communication. That is a critical >> aspect of attracting people! Engineers and technologists from = emerging markets face so much day to day basic challenges in doing their = work that asking them to naturally spare time to read and contribute to = lists where hundreds of mails are send in an hour with cross references = to other hundreds of document is hard. Fellowship to roughly 30 people = every year should not be the only direction too look at, the issue have = to be addressed holistically so to have an effective result. >=20 > Some of the above might fit in the framework suggested at the = beginning of the message or as part of outreach. There was another = thread on the mailing list where it was mentioned that some of the work = done at universities do not fit within the IETF. Some, but not all. And if we want to create the interest we may need to = start raising awareness within the Engineering/Technology student = community. It won't be mainly about the work done at University but = about raising the awareness on Open standard and how "easy" it is to = contribute to / influence it. > I agree that engineers from emerging markets face so much day to day = basic challenges and that asking them to spare time to reach the mailing = lists is hard. It has been mentioned that the IETF does its work = through its mailing list. I personally do not think that it would be a = good idea to suggest changing that without the support of the IETF = Community. I'm not suggesting to change the way the IETF works, but helping people = out there to understand why it is important to spear time to following = online discussions. Simply said, give them factual argument so to raise = that in their day to day priorities. - a. --Apple-Mail=_1B62373D-AB9D-4D1D-A80C-E6D071E427E6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUktC86PBL6dQeG11AQKrwgQAi6JPwd0OBhSHVAK45W9R7Pi8ZeYqcyna rzICUg2EAm03kstyQ/drzvh017oN6wcB9qMp3irrPU+PlY7TZGtjVaZeVJCBQn0U uPKf72VlkyK3WsiOLiEb5I0t99m1AGUmHYzJe85COtrvSHZkOHWR+DowDsTt5eJV S2V2BZpySKg= =+HqG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1B62373D-AB9D-4D1D-A80C-E6D071E427E6-- From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 17:19:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585F61F0D4F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.804 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.795, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fmWnGG0WN+u8 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37EFD1F0D07 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.149.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r920In0j000719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:18:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380673142; bh=ToDyeUFgRqplRUiMcOD/FPJf98v+Wx+rOK78yEYfCoI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=IIopfdP+z2oxr2rZWO71Er3Lvgpwy76qiLiJgzQvYGsEzCPoCput/W1oE7PptgkHD 7doM4eFzbGRISacoKqQOTUxsLf/4jbcoCfuGWwr3OBIewg3Qc3mpa0wcTklUt14fxe YYlEyUky4qDsUWfxywf62T5+YzUaVSxMGX8HUmME= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380673142; i=@elandsys.com; bh=ToDyeUFgRqplRUiMcOD/FPJf98v+Wx+rOK78yEYfCoI=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=wmcJZi1cOyFsem9ONS/UhQr0RJeYU9bdyUEviG1yujNYyj72zuEkJ9DKxvcVBuwkP xewYmLVsDAhZXx3PIshmTvAT1ETQYcIkIB7YbtMCD/smeOqdxq8Z/iZ+IZZO2gWNJ+ zQDUaqHXteze+yabiqnK95KQAcAlkdKiUi+gBO5Q= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 17:15:14 -0700 To: Adiel Akplogan From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 00:19:32 -0000 Hi Adiel, At 14:47 01-10-2013, Adiel Akplogan wrote: >I'm not sure, as I see in the current draft many valid principles >and requirements that can be applied to any other program that will >have the objective to make supported participation from emerging >economy sustainable/effective. Ok. >Then you may want to change the title of the Draft, because the >current title is about attracting. I commented about the "attracting" in my exchange with Dave Crocker as follows: Maybe "attracting" is not the correct word here. I would say that the draft "attempts to address the challenge of attracting people from emerging regions". >Then maybe open a different thread for that aspect which is critical >for this diversity team. I cannot comment on behalf on the diversity team. I'll leave this to Kathleen Moriarty and Suresh Krishnan. >I'm not sure I'm following your here. Can you elaborate why it will >not fit in to the goal of making participation effective? > >Also if the IETF use "emerging region" maybe that will need to be >revisited as well to align with the reality and contribute to >deliver a clear message. (i) Person A is from Country B. The person can be said to have actively participated in IETF activities for more than six months. (ii) Person C is from Country D. The person has not actively participated in IETF activities for more than six months. Person C (ii) is selected and Person A (i) is not selected. It can be a disincentive to Person A and that person might find better things to do instead of volunteering for IETF work. In my personal opinion it can have a negative impact on IETF work. I leave it to the IETF Community to clarify what "emerging regions" means. >I believe that IETF volunteers have already worked and addressed >more complex issue than that :-). I prefer simple issues. :-) > Is it that this is less important? In my personal opinion a work is less important when there aren't enough IETF participants who can do the work. >Some, but not all. And if we want to create the interest we may need >to start raising awareness within the Engineering/Technology student >community. It won't be mainly about the work done at University but >about raising the awareness on Open standard and how "easy" it is to >contribute to / influence it. I have personally tried the awareness within the student community. It was not a work-related effort. It did not generate significant interest to deliver results. I actually tell people that it is difficult to contribute. I found people who agree to contribute in spite of what I said. Oddly enough, some of these people are from emerging regions. Regards, S. Moonesamy From louwct@gmail.com Tue Oct 1 18:50:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E306721F9B21 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:50:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.057 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.057 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.991, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kitFbEWM3vWK for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A615411E8153 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id l18so165248wgh.16 for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 18:50:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=H5e22U97hgv1ZX9dKMsrauoxlBBISaQV2aC+rp6/4UM=; b=KzLb94WsIw1dlV4kM4uQ+EOHAvrn5NDoewg1JF+QIVWY+19oxsQPL+eiJCcQEkUkMK ArWIxRCMekgmCCHZ0ed4oyWOfk9ipKJTJNoyv9bBe3a4WKpGvEgYSsgwq0+erQIzaCyP pQf8cqcv1xhPaSMARvNRXf5gsNFYypUcWbV3anP6vMSxsw2Ftoh6kmT6RuI1QGTUAnvi KGF/K9cS6rN7x+YvQ5eE4fwZIPorToHaNG5U9EsemfwSBWJrgpiW0nWph9iiIEcHElql IOLqFo8FeytCrbvllw19Id2WK2a13uHGSyIp1N4oZHHHOu+EaW6tM+wKywOksQCP+oSe HypA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.109.68 with SMTP id hq4mr25348937wjb.12.1380678606817; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 18:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.201.40 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 18:50:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 21:50:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Colleen Louw To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0102e6dae88fa404e7b84980 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 01:50:21 -0000 --089e0102e6dae88fa404e7b84980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you SM for preparing this draft, it spun up a couple of questions for me - pardon me if these has been covered elsewhere: - Meetings of the IETF from what I can see off the main page have never taken place in Africa, South America or India, which constitute large areas of what we consider emerging economies/markets etc. I'm new to this organization so I don't know the history of why that is, but looking at it from the vantage point of wanting increase diversity, it doesn't send a good message of inclusiveness. - This draft raises a point which I understand as relating to fellows and not to the broader point of diversity but it is something of note in the general sense: being proficient in English. I'm pretty sure we've touched on language elsewhere on this list but in saying this, we are also making fluency with what may be a second language to an otherwise great contributor a barrier to entry Cheers Colleen On 1 October 2013 20:15, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Adiel, > > At 14:47 01-10-2013, Adiel Akplogan wrote: > >> I'm not sure, as I see in the current draft many valid principles and >> requirements that can be applied to any other program that will have the >> objective to make supported participation from emerging economy >> sustainable/effective. >> > > Ok. > > > Then you may want to change the title of the Draft, because the current >> title is about attracting. >> > > I commented about the "attracting" in my exchange with Dave Crocker as > follows: > > > Maybe "attracting" is not the correct word here. I would say that the > draft > "attempts to address the challenge of attracting people from emerging > regions". > > > Then maybe open a different thread for that aspect which is critical for >> this diversity team. >> > > I cannot comment on behalf on the diversity team. I'll leave this to > Kathleen Moriarty and Suresh Krishnan. > > > I'm not sure I'm following your here. Can you elaborate why it will not >> fit in to the goal of making participation effective? >> >> Also if the IETF use "emerging region" maybe that will need to be >> revisited as well to align with the reality and contribute to deliver a >> clear message. >> > > (i) Person A is from Country B. The person can be said to have actively > participated in IETF activities for more than six months. > > (ii) Person C is from Country D. The person has not actively participated > in IETF activities for more than six months. > > Person C (ii) is selected and Person A (i) is not selected. It can be a > disincentive to Person A and that person might find better things to do > instead of volunteering for IETF work. In my personal opinion it can have > a negative impact on IETF work. > > I leave it to the IETF Community to clarify what "emerging regions" means. > > > I believe that IETF volunteers have already worked and addressed more >> complex issue than that :-). >> > > I prefer simple issues. :-) > > > Is it that this is less important? >> > > In my personal opinion a work is less important when there aren't enough > IETF participants who can do the work. > > > Some, but not all. And if we want to create the interest we may need to >> start raising awareness within the Engineering/Technology student >> community. It won't be mainly about the work done at University but about >> raising the awareness on Open standard and how "easy" it is to contribute >> to / influence it. >> > > I have personally tried the awareness within the student community. It > was not a work-related effort. It did not generate significant interest to > deliver results. > > I actually tell people that it is difficult to contribute. I found people > who agree to contribute in spite of what I said. Oddly enough, some of > these people are from emerging regions. > > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > ______________________________**_________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/diversity > --089e0102e6dae88fa404e7b84980 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you SM for preparing this draft, it spun up a c= ouple of questions for me - pardon me if these has been covered elsewhere:<= br>
- Meetings of the IETF from what I can see off the main page have ne= ver taken place in Africa, South America or India, which constitute large a= reas of what we consider emerging economies/markets etc. I'm new to thi= s organization so I don't know the history of why that is, but looking = at it from the vantage point of wanting increase diversity, it doesn't = send a good message of inclusiveness.

- This draft raises a point which I understand as relating to fellows a= nd not to the broader point of diversity but it is something of note in the= general sense: being proficient in English. I'm pretty sure we've = touched on language elsewhere on this list but in saying this, we are also = making fluency with what may be a second language to an otherwise great con= tributor a barrier to entry

Cheers

Colleen

On 1 October 2013 20:15, S Moonesamy <sm+i= etf@elandsys.com> wrote:
Hi Adiel,

At 14:47 01-10-2013, Adiel Akplogan wrote:
I'm not sure, as I see in the current draft many valid principles and r= equirements that can be applied to any other program that will have the obj= ective to make supported participation from emerging economy sustainable/ef= fective.

Ok.


Then you may want to change the title of the Draft, because the current tit= le is about attracting.

I commented about the "attracting" in my exchange with Dave Crock= er as follows:


=A0 Maybe "attracting" is not the correct word here. I would say = that the draft
=A0 "attempts to address the challenge of attracting people from emerg= ing regions".


Then maybe open a different thread for that aspect which is critical for th= is diversity team.

I cannot comment on behalf on the diversity team. =A0I'll leave this to= Kathleen Moriarty and Suresh Krishnan.


I'm not sure I'm following your here. Can you elaborate why it will= not fit in to the goal of making participation effective?

Also if the IETF use "emerging region" maybe that will need to be= revisited as well to align with the reality and contribute to deliver a cl= ear message.

=A0(i) =A0Person A is from Country B. =A0The person can be said to have act= ively
=A0 =A0 =A0 participated in IETF activities for more than six months.

=A0(ii) Person C is from Country D. =A0The person has not actively particip= ated
=A0 =A0 =A0 in IETF activities for more than six months.

Person C (ii) is selected and Person A (i) is not selected. =A0It can be a = disincentive to Person A and that person might find better things to do ins= tead of volunteering for IETF work. =A0In my personal opinion it can have a= negative impact on IETF work.

I leave it to the IETF Community to clarify what "emerging regions&quo= t; means.


I believe that IETF volunteers have already worked and addressed more compl= ex issue than that :-).

I prefer simple issues. :-)


=A0Is it that this is less important?

In my personal opinion a work is less important when there aren't enoug= h IETF participants who can do the work.


Some, but not all. And if we want to create the interest we may need to sta= rt raising awareness within the Engineering/Technology student community. I= t won't be mainly about the work done at University but about raising t= he awareness on Open standard and how "easy" it is to contribute = to / influence it.

I have personally tried the awareness within the student community. =A0It w= as not a work-related effort. =A0It did not generate significant interest t= o deliver results.

I actually tell people that it is difficult to contribute. =A0I found peopl= e who agree to contribute in spite of what I said. =A0Oddly enough, some of= these people are from emerging regions.


Regards,
S. Moonesamy
_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity

--089e0102e6dae88fa404e7b84980-- From sm@elandsys.com Tue Oct 1 23:02:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089C821F9E5A for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:02:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.464 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.464 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.154, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ro8gGZgu1dMM for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615FE11E8252 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.149.116]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r92622iE011225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:02:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380693733; bh=jjn2tBi5uGj1pHPcTr4tSa840zeYCjohWJE4E5v1bTs=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=fvyOSTDejV74bC/Pditb3z0MmsdFjzEUYOcC/OYvbcmuhb1N9hD7EParJopR8N2CF ipmP5xlyLGq0IXSKndnLiP2QrTGI+R0MyseO8nJYd+ZU+UZCRYb4L0E5LpKTtyqmtv oIYRGqtaHVhK5XdHxLRgRsC+gw0Bn0NnfeOrVRbA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380693733; i=@elandsys.com; bh=jjn2tBi5uGj1pHPcTr4tSa840zeYCjohWJE4E5v1bTs=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=M40AWQ/GfUR0RRnOBVFDmJIJvwIKoyK4mOT05cGHPi324Ygs7fr4h/K8uGln5g8cS QXhGA/kYOq5wTXASN7cMQV9uXQUg+A7MIXp6htvCpkt6q+9bALHRobDTn4Mg2oXmE6 m2ND9nvw40ERheDsNlO1AAy3UG8qMd6LOu90Htlg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001210632.0b483110@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 22:57:40 -0700 To: Colleen Louw From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 06:02:32 -0000 Hi Colleen, At 18:50 01-10-2013, Colleen Louw wrote: >- Meetings of the IETF from what I can see off the main page have >never taken place in Africa, South America or India, which >constitute large areas of what we consider emerging >economies/markets etc. I'm new to this organization so I don't know >the history of why that is, but looking at it from the vantage point >of wanting increase diversity, it doesn't send a good message of inclusiveness. There is a thread about a meeting in South America at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg79456.html There is a comment about inclusiveness at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg78921.html >- This draft raises a point which I understand as relating to >fellows and not to the broader point of diversity but it is >something of note in the general sense: being proficient in English. >I'm pretty sure we've touched on language elsewhere on this list but >in saying this, we are also making fluency with what may be a second >language to an otherwise great contributor a barrier to entry Section 2 of draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-02 ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moonesamy-ietf-conduct-3184bis-02 ) discusses about the language used in the IETF. Regards, S. Moonesamy From vinayakh@gmail.com Tue Oct 1 23:10:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEE621E829E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:10:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kx8rVUW+s+IY for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x231.google.com (mail-pb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EE521E8289 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id xb4so427278pbc.36 for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ot1GgXePswI19lb2xEQhoMLLxFEuKGbRZxE0vg/VoTA=; b=c2pngi3QOz7YuDveb/zv8FSopwKggbfmBKG1vsKqce7dCf4F+eWzSIUd0Xox37w7xv dlB562h92Wzku9YSDk7+A04ik+4XuR0EaP3b4liIX/1od21UuJT/XFCpOPNE96cGrtIx dwap/ZmLUA1NTudDShTjJK/Pxv6hKYYinUK4zIxO5kWwDStxNsOVJzZdLfvNYjOljTw8 K59vl/omtllcWAGGg3tm+Lr+Sp/6TUDr1KKmpAu0wY3yxllKs8umSTN5SKZQ1IjUtCfE 5vI0TDGD9OhBUWfDzbWaKjh+mdMyYeR1R9tLAhgrvSGjyQZoOuPAZNO5J3pvSib2QQ0E dtWg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.254.105 with SMTP id ah9mr631243pbd.87.1380694194325; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.90.39 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 11:39:54 +0530 Message-ID: From: Vinayak Hegde To: Colleen Louw Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e1043ff11b404e7bbeaf8 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty , S Moonesamy , Suresh Krishnan Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 06:10:05 -0000 --047d7b2e1043ff11b404e7bbeaf8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Colleen Louw wrote: > Thank you SM for preparing this draft, it spun up a couple of questions > for me - pardon me if these has been covered elsewhere: > > - Meetings of the IETF from what I can see off the main page have never > taken place in Africa, South America or India, which constitute large areas > of what we consider emerging economies/markets etc. I'm new to this > organization so I don't know the history of why that is, but looking at it > from the vantage point of wanting increase diversity, it doesn't send a > good message of inclusiveness. > This has been discussed to death on the IETF mailing list. See the archives of ietf mailing list 2-3 months back for individual messages. The overall consensus was that having meetings in a region which does not have a lot of participants is a costly affair for the others. Also it is not the best and efficient way (money-wise) to increase participation from a region. There are several ways to increase participation from a region: 1. Have a satellite meeting in the region that increases awareness - a. This could be a venue that is available for like-minded people who can remotely participate in a WG meeting / IETF plenary. The challenge here is getting like-minded people for a WG meeting as the IETF WG covers a fairly large and diverse area of subjects. Another problem is the timezone especially for Asian countries. The WG meetings in North America happen in the middle of the night or early morning b. ISOC / Other interested parties can have outreach efforts for popularizing standards. It could be a simple seminar/talk about a particular standards and how easy it is to join the mailing lists and contribute to it. I have done this with some limited success. ISOC has an INET series which is also doing this. c. Also it is possible to do outreach events and talk about IETF work at regional events such as *NIC or *NOG events. SM you can also put this in the draft. > - This draft raises a point which I understand as relating to fellows and > not to the broader point of diversity but it is something of note in the > general sense: being proficient in English. I'm pretty sure we've touched > on language elsewhere on this list but in saying this, we are also making > fluency with what may be a second language to an otherwise great > contributor a barrier to entry > > Being proficient in English is almost a must. The IETF and other organisation do not have a budget to translate between different standards (like the UN does) and English has become the lingua franca of the business and technical world and the web. It is just a pragmatic decision. English may not be your/my first language but I have become proficient sooner rather than later. -- Vinayak --047d7b2e1043ff11b404e7bbeaf8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On W= ed, Oct 2, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Colleen Louw <louwct@gmail.com> w= rote:
Thank you SM for prepa= ring this draft, it spun up a couple of questions for me - pardon me if the= se has been covered elsewhere:

- Meetings of the IETF from what I can see off the main page have never= taken place in Africa, South America or India, which constitute large area= s of what we consider emerging economies/markets etc. I'm new to this o= rganization so I don't know the history of why that is, but looking at = it from the vantage point of wanting increase diversity, it doesn't sen= d a good message of inclusiveness.

This has been discussed to dea= th on the IETF mailing list. See the archives of ietf mailing list 2-3 mont= hs back for individual messages. The overall consensus was that having meet= ings in a region which does not have a lot of participants is a costly affa= ir for the others. Also it is not the best and efficient way (money-wise) t= o increase participation from a region.

There are several ways to increase participation from a regi= on:
1. Have a satellite meeting in the region that increases = awareness -
=A0=A0=A0 a. This could be a venue that is availa= ble for like-minded people who can remotely participate in a WG meeting / I= ETF plenary. The challenge here is getting like-minded people for a WG meet= ing as the IETF WG covers a fairly large and diverse area of subjects. Anot= her problem is the timezone especially for Asian countries. The WG meetings= in North America happen in the middle of the night or early morning
=A0=A0=A0 b. ISOC / Other interested parties can have outreach e= fforts for popularizing standards. It could be a simple seminar/talk about = a particular standards and how easy it is to join the mailing lists and con= tribute to it. I have done this with some limited success. ISOC has an INET= series which is also doing this.
=A0=A0=A0 c. Also it is possible to do outreach events and talk = about IETF work at regional events such as *NIC or *NOG events.

SM you can also put this in the draft.


- This draft raises a point which I understand as relating to fellows a= nd not to the broader point of diversity but it is something of note in the= general sense: being proficient in English. I'm pretty sure we've = touched on language elsewhere on this list but in saying this, we are also = making fluency with what may be a second language to an otherwise great con= tributor a barrier to entry


Being proficient in Englis= h is almost a must. The IETF and other organisation do not have a budget to= translate between different standards (like the UN does) and English has b= ecome the lingua franca of the business and technical world and the web. It= is just a pragmatic decision. English may not be your/my first language bu= t I have become proficient sooner rather than later.
=A0
--= Vinayak
--047d7b2e1043ff11b404e7bbeaf8-- From arturo.servin@gmail.com Wed Oct 2 05:26:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BEF21F970E for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 05:26:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id epktGN8ZhEsO for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 05:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-x22f.google.com (mail-yh0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BECE11E8292 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 05:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f47.google.com with SMTP id l109so163620yhq.6 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 05:25:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=V/aqVAMPPgguvR4ydM/fXIA4s/U6NPtExEMJCTa5boM=; b=ioGguEAK8KpKxNk6Mlx+J5hm34d/XZ+PqhTfXDE4OOMl+D9FwYdxvddEcwL/7ytKWZ 9gl/VZzvVOSLDQzGccVr8ojnW87h2ShQavz1/MeyDY8F2f+PIJgbk+yI4LDVpU7BTBY0 I0OE/SuINwOhR3QfHDOM6eqTBjym9dP4wX2nk0Pb/lbcRut/3QH8NplLndFTqvHTU28y SYTp0/trs4rIMH96YfNjVTkWFjAL5fySyc0vYlCRBJ2uXip6Il+zVXQRcUNSCWaCGXXR GxBualqWwQdjaz6WTYcNLkf20mZnQjGjNaqc4nIYVIQ4/0q52wmGh383L/TtjG9selKw x91A== X-Received: by 10.236.141.12 with SMTP id f12mr1721610yhj.34.1380716706713; Wed, 02 Oct 2013 05:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2800:af:ba31:2e5:95b4:b7fb:1a24:d2d]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s46sm1780249yha.27.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Oct 2013 05:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <524C10A1.4050804@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 09:25:05 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> <524B1F9D.4020907@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <524B1F9D.4020907@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:26:03 -0000 On 10/1/13 4:16 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 10/1/2013 12:11 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Oct 1, 2013, at 20:41, Dave Crocker wrote: >>> Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft >>> author, here is my current understanding of the goal: >>> >>> 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face >>> contact, which is of course useful. >> >> Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to >> the IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, >> state-run telco people, government officials, etc. > > That's not the Fellows program, as I understand it. What you are > describing is, I believe, a separate effort. Dave is right, it is a separate program with a different goal. Sometimes they meet together like in dinners and some specific presentations, however the goal of the programs and the selection criteria are different. Regards, as From lars@netapp.com Wed Oct 2 06:11:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D46E21F9BF1 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:11:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GixiCMu-JHYP for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE8B21F9AA1 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1019,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="48285711" Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 02 Oct 2013 06:11:37 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:11:37 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOvIEUpf/VXwHv0U2r+0UbkseLRJndXT+AgANJIwCAAAGegIAACFIAgAABjYCAAR9QgIAADP6A Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 13:11:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> <524B1F9D.4020907@dcrocker.net> <524C10A1.4050804@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <524C10A1.4050804@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A3C375F4-E0BA-48C3-ABAB-5502B8E64895"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:11:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A3C375F4-E0BA-48C3-ABAB-5502B8E64895 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for clarifying! I think having some information from ISOC on what programs they run in = this space and what the differences/foci are would be useful. Lars On Oct 2, 2013, at 5:25, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > On 10/1/13 4:16 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: >> On 10/1/2013 12:11 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> On Oct 1, 2013, at 20:41, Dave Crocker wrote: >>>> Merely to offer a data point that isn't generated by the draft >>>> author, here is my current understanding of the goal: >>>>=20 >>>> 1. The ISOC current effort establishes initial, face-to-face >>>> contact, which is of course useful. >>>=20 >>> Yes. But my impression is that ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to >>> the IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, >>> state-run telco people, government officials, etc. >>=20 >> That's not the Fellows program, as I understand it. What you are >> describing is, I believe, a separate effort. >=20 > Dave is right, it is a separate program with a different goal. >=20 > Sometimes they meet together like in dinners and some specific > presentations, however the goal of the programs and the selection > criteria are different. >=20 >=20 > Regards, > as >=20 > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --Apple-Mail=_A3C375F4-E0BA-48C3-ABAB-5502B8E64895 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUkwbh9ZcnpRveo1xAQKpZAP/W6fQfuIIqiChJ7cvJvdyOr95VlQMNUri y31kw1N4l/hNGUGfjfC81PA0SfsumtcC7uTpIXcC+b4xYJWCyJYnyx3U8p3ZFd9+ /v7pDY+qNCxn4RDSdwbIbjGa8vuQ0MfWN9sf+tBlNK8fut9KOXzGBBCRRTiKlydp TjqaMNkP5X0= =evne -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_A3C375F4-E0BA-48C3-ABAB-5502B8E64895-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Wed Oct 2 09:38:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A74321F9E7C for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fMHtpstX4Lb6 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3AF21F8EB2 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r92GZnKs012604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 2 Oct 2013 09:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: <524C4B35.4060209@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 09:35:01 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy , "diversity@ietf.org" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001120842.0a92c3e0@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001120842.0a92c3e0@elandnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Wed, 02 Oct 2013 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:38:17 -0000 On 10/1/2013 1:53 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > The changes in version -01 are: SM, > 1. Introduction > > The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to > determine how to address issues such as geographic diversity. There I suggest replacing "how to... diversity", by quoting Jari's text explicitly. Being in sync with what he said is generally good for something like this, since it links this draft better to existing efforts and statements; plus I think his text is concise and useful: http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/07/a-diverse-ietf/ "to understand the diversity problem and suggest solutions to make the IETF more inclusive" > is already an ISOC Fellowship programme to the IETF for participants > from emerging regions. This document attempts to address the Again, I suggest using ISOC's own language to describe its fellowship program: http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/ietf-and-ois-programmes/internet-society-fellowship "The Fellowship to the IETF helps to increase the diversity of inputs to, and global awareness of the IETF’s vital work." Then create linkage between it and what you are proposing. Hence, something like: This document builds upon the ISOC work, proposing adjustments and additional efforts, with the goal of enabling more sustained and active participation by contributors from under-represented regions. I suspect we'll do better to have the draft use a term like "under-represented sector" rather than "emerging region". The former can permit including deserving and promising folk from a wider range of places. I'm assuming that's a desirable change, but of course it's a policy point that needs to be explicit. ... > > 2. Existing support for participants from emerging regions > > 2.1. Objectives of the ISOC Fellowship programme Introduce this sub-section with: ISOC's efforts are encompassed by a basic Fellowship Programme and a Returning Fellowship Programme. > The Internet Society has provided significant financial support given > that attendance by technologists from emerging and developing > economies is currently limited [FEL]. It is considered that actually > attending an event promotes a stronger understanding of the standards an event -> a face-to-face IETF meeting > process, encourages active involvement in IETF work, and facilitates To help lay the foundation for the incremental proposal the draft is making... encourages active -> lays the foundation for active > personal networking with others that have similar technical interests > [FEL]. ... > The goals of the ISOC Returning fellowship programme [RET] are to: The text at [RET] refers to attending one more meeting, rather than continuing attendance. The language here ought to reflect this limitation, since it's quite a major point, IMO. ... > 3. Expectations of the IETF > > The objectives of the fellowship are less well aligned with the 'less well' requires some existing context about alignment, that isn't provided in the draft. I suggest a change that makes the sentence introduce the concern: less well-aligned -> can be better aligned > expectations of the IETF as it focuses on meeting attendance by The IETF isn't a person and doesn't have 'expectations'. > technologists from emerging and developing economies and awareness of > the IETF instead of active participation in the IETF. Although Replace first sentence with: The current ISOC Fellowship Programme is primarily useful for initial introductions to IETF activities and culture. However the goal in the IETF, itself, is for continuing and active participation, which goes considerably beyond introductions. Moving from introduction to participation requires additional effort. > attending IETF meetings fosters an understanding of the work of the > IETF it does not ensure active participation. Active participation > in the work of an IETF Working Group is listed as an advantage > instead of a requirement for the fellowship [SEL]. > > The existing selection criteria puts an emphasis on university-level > qualifications and the academic interests of the applicant [SEL]. It The draft is suggesting an actual mis-match between the programme and IETF's operating culture. So the draft should flag the point as being an issue. "However" is a small flag. So... It -> However it > has been mentioned in discussions about academic participation that > the IETF filters out proposals from researchers simply because they > just do not fit in standardization work [DIN]. > > The Returning Fellowship programme is a laudable initiative by the > Internet Society to encourage IETF participation from emerging The basic program already encourages participation. So... to encourage -> to further encourage > regions. It is unclear how the goals to integrate technologists from > emerging regions into the IETF or advance the technical leadership > potential of individuals from emerging regions are pursued. The above, last sentence confuses me a bit. Pursued by whom? Perhaps the draft means to say something like: It is unclear how an ISOC Fellow can build upon the initial -- but limited -- experiences of the basic Programme and Returning Fellow Programme, to achieve the Fellow's technical leadership potential, through on-going, active participation in the IETF. > 4. Suggestions > > 4.1. Selection criteria for the fellowship Is this being suggested as a replacement set of criteria? And for which of the two Programmes? Again, this text needs context that links it to the existing activities and text. > > The most effective way to contribute to the IETF is through active > participation and by reviewing and commenting about working group > drafts [FAA]. It is proposed that the applicant fulfills the > following criteria: > > - Be proficient in English. > > - Can be objectively said to have actively participated in IETF > activities for more than six months, and subjectively, such that > those contributions are considered useful. Replace with: Has been actively and constructively participating in the IETF for at least six months. > > > Expires April 4, 2014 [Page 3] > > S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 1, 2013 > > > For example, reviewing drafts, commenting on IETF Last Calls, > writing code for drafts or taking part in interop testing are > fine ways to be seen to have participated. Candidates whose > contributions are considered more useful should be preferred > over those who are less useful. Judging utility for > contributions requires knowledge of the specific field. > > - Resident of a country in an emerging region. > > 4.2. Evaluation panel > > It is suggested to include Area Directors or Working Group Chairs on > the evaluation panel [FAS]. These people will bring in the expertise > to evaluate the reviews performed by the applicant. They can also To cover a wider range of activities, such as writing a draft: reviews performed -> contributions made Hmmm. The challenge here is that the Panel needs to be fairly small, while the range of possible applications might be large, therefore requiring a range of ADs or WG Chairs who have had contact with them. That is, the draft is seeking to have members of the Evaluation Panel be folk with direct experience of the applicants, but I'd expect that to require too many people. So I suspect that a more efficient suggestion would be something like: - Applicants shall summarize their specific contributions to the IETF - Applicants shall solicit Area Directors, working group chairs, authors and other active IETF participants, to send supporting notes on their behalf to the Evaluation Panel. These notes should comment on the nature and extent of contributions made by the application. - The Evaluation Panel may also solicit comments from IETF participants who have had contact with the applicant. > determine whether the applicant has an understanding of the work done > in the IETF. It is suggested that the evaluation panel prioritize > people who have been contributing over time to real IETF work. Hmmm. That last sentence strikes me as a major policy point, and one with justifications and problems in either direction. For example, a policy like that can lead to awards going to a small, stagnant set of active contributors. While the goodness of that is that they are useful contributors, the downside is that it doesn't bring in more new people. Mumble... > > 4.3. Guidance for applicants > > The fellowship is about people who can demonstrate commitment and can > collaborate with other IETF participants to perform IETF work. That's certainly a reasonable goal for a programme like this, but it seems to be much more narrow than ISOC's current language suggests. Again, this sounds like a significant policy change. > Applicants can familiarize themselves with the technologies being > discussed by, for example, implementing the relevant specifications > or evaluating implementations [ACS]. Applicants can ask for advice > on the edu-discuss@ietf.org mailing list [EDU]. > > 4.4. Effectiveness of the fellowship > > The effectiveness of the fellowship can be assessed by tracking the > IETF activities of the fellows and doing a follow-up to find out why > fellows drop out. Assessment should look for the whys and hows of both continued involvement as well as lack of continued involvement. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From conte@isoc.org Wed Oct 2 17:49:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125421F8517 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:49:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.423 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.423, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8+kSjrESHHpj for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0153.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9321F21F9F3A for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.148) by BLUPR06MB018.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.775.9; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 00:47:38 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.90]) by BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.90]) with mapi id 15.00.0775.005; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 00:47:38 +0000 From: Steve Conte To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOv4bF66kAg1pK0k6QCty+19qO4Jnhr+aA Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 00:47:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.170.168.6] x-forefront-prvs: 09888BC01D 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people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 00:49:16 -0000 U00sDQoNCkknbSBtb3ZpbmcgdGhpcyBiYWNrIHRvIHRoZSBkaXZlcnNpdHkgdGhyZWFkIHdoZXJl IHRoZSBhY3RpdmUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uDQppcyB0YWtpbmcgcGxhY2UuIEknbSB1bnN1cmUgd2h5 IHlvdSBjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24gdG8gYmUgb3V0c2lkZQ0Kb2YgdGhlIHRocmVh ZC4gIEkgbm90ZSB0aGF0IHlvdSBkaWRuJ3QgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgZnVsbCBjb250ZXh0IG9mIG15 DQptZXNzYWdlIHdoZW4geW91IGNoYW5nZWQgdGhlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbi4NCg0KSSBhbHNvIGRv bid0IGZlZWwgdGhhdCB5b3UgYW5zd2VyZWQgbXkgcXVlc3Rpb24uIEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoZSBtZWNo YW5pc21zDQpvZiB0aGUgSVNPQyBGZWxsb3dzaGlwIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgcXVl c3Rpb24gb2YgaW5jcmVhc2luZyB0aGUNCmRpdmVyc2l0eSBvZiB0aGUgSUVURj8NCg0KTG9va2lu ZyBhdCB5b3VyIGRyYWZ0LCB5b3UgbWFrZSBzZXZlcmFsIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgdG8gJ2FjdGl2ZQ0K 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score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1YWCTxP95HsR for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 19:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1427E21F9C69 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 19:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7fda8e0000024c6-20-524cdb939e15 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2A.65.09414.39BDC425; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 04:50:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [164.48.125.32] (147.117.188.135) by smtps-am.internal.ericsson.com (147.117.188.78) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 2 Oct 2013 22:50:55 -0400 Message-ID: <524CDAE6.5060204@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 22:48:06 -0400 From: Suresh Krishnan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adiel Akplogan References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> In-Reply-To: <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [147.117.188.135] X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn+7k2z5BBr+mWliceneByeLa7RUs Fq+afwGJ/pusDiweU2+bedx785HJ48iR2SweS5b8ZApgieKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKWPnlLVPB Ss6KrbtnMjYwzmPvYuTkkBAwkXjRN4EFwhaTuHBvPVsXIxeHkMBRRolzK9vYIZxtjBLfOz4z glTxCmhLvF2/EayDRUBF4u2+HWA2G9CkDTs/M4HYogJhEvfPHWKCqBeUODnzCViNiICaxMqu PWBzmAVyJdb0X2MDsYUFAiRWPd4IVi8kcJVR4u9rCRCbU8BeouXFT2aI6yQlti06xg7Rqycx 5WoL1Bx5ie1v5zBD9GpKbF3znbWLkQOoXllix4zECYzCs5BcMQtJ9ywk3QsYmVcxcpQWp5bl phsZbGIEhvoxCTbdHYx7XloeYpTmYFES5/3y1jlISCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4ECMTB6dU A2N6SfHOywGvF0rOvzBhyZuNN2Wt3aQ0je3XxirXJSdwLtyZ4aj+UPBw2tTfdk03A6bX/U4z eNd8dWHAm41XthRXBJ89X7FKZl2DyUMnxxOVrjVrg5jWx9Y8vLPz8V/3sNMNx8UrOmMzb77L YrlrWbVBN77seNr2s2+WX1rAFJ21S9ZRtXlld7YSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgCwepV8QwIAAA== Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 02:51:20 -0000 Hi Adiel, On 10/01/2013 05:47 PM, Adiel Akplogan wrote: > Hello SM, > > On 2013-09-30, at 20:55 PM, S Moonesamy > wrote: >> I highlight the comment about goals: >> >> (i) one being to attract people >> >> (ii) make their participation sustainable/effective >> >> The draft tries to address (ii), i.e. make the participation >> from emerging countries effective and sustainable. > > Then you may want to change the title of the Draft, because the > current title is about attracting. > >> The first goal (i) is one which could be covered through >> outreach. I left out the outreach part from the draft. > > Ok. > >> I have some very rough ideas for (i). In my opinion it is >> unlikely that they would bring any results without money and >> even then I am not sure whether the results will be considered >> as significant. > > Then maybe open a different thread for that aspect which is > critical for this diversity team. Certainly. We would love to hear your thoughts on (i) along with any ideas you might have on this topic. The diversity design team can be reached at diversity-dt@ietf.org Thanks Suresh From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 3 03:51:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA72D21E8051 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 03:51:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.671 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.671 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.928, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fbNAYO6iu0Y0 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 03:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B611B11E80F7 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 03:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.128.43]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r93AkdUF018723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Oct 2013 03:46:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380797211; bh=vjMHOo8ByqZUieI3hj8BRpFHD/ip/i/QaNGWeSLy0uw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=HM5A88wDZ7LyRPM3xk7fyLLSL8Wk7sYXMHYVIGnubwPmouhoEaUiq5ryaI6e6bKx7 XXG8rHutXSSCFGsZLkT0DNw3riqHD/giBS70JvRW8VoCv8Hsyn5igbHXrMZvO0405O 1aSaYwd4Nkpy+xpy/P0UEAtw58A/o+IP2armn5X0= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380797211; i=@elandsys.com; bh=vjMHOo8ByqZUieI3hj8BRpFHD/ip/i/QaNGWeSLy0uw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=pfan2rPqUvEggv80ZFee/Kn3pRJ5U85EBW8zYPTJ7q8PjZYmPi/ye80VtQzApfNZb D4MbACwvHiSeDjzobH58A7KI0knLtQgUFQXvP6P+Aoz3cgfpllDvD55Mo+gvss9/+B EBE0VWJlzfCVyyVu23ThM022h9uf6YFZria6nIu4= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 02:44:47 -0700 To: Steve Conte From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 10:51:20 -0000 Hi Steve, At 17:47 02-10-2013, Steve Conte wrote: >I'm moving this back to the diversity thread where the active conversation >is taking place. I'm unsure why you changed the distribution to be outside >of the thread. I note that you didn't include the full context of my >message when you changed the distribution. I mentioned previously that the work on the draft is a volunteer effort and not a work-related effort. I cannot afford to spend years on such efforts. In my opinion the draft is ready for IETF Community input (I have to get back to Dave Crocker and make some changes). I send it to the relevant mailing list and move on. >I also don't feel that you answered my question. How does the mechanisms >of the ISOC Fellowship to the IETF affect the question of increasing the >diversity of the IETF? That is an answer for the IETF Community to find. I contacted the Chair of the ISOC Board of Trustees. He responded quickly. If my request was unrelated to the diversity of the IETF he would have told me so. Here's a comment from Michael StJohns: "Who have you mentored in the past 5 years? Have they ended up as working group chairs, or ADs or IAB members? Do they mostly represent under-represented groups? How many of them were employed by your employer (e.g. was this a work related task?)? During your time as an AD, how many women did you arm twist/recruit specifically (or ask nicely) to take WG positions in your area (as opposed to them coming to you or your co-AD)?" My answers to those questions are at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg78939.html As you have been helpful I can try to get you a formal reply (see question above) from the IETF. Let me know if you would like me to look into that. >Looking at your draft, you make several references to 'active >participation'. As I mentioned in my previous mail (which I'm reattaching >to capture the full context), active participation could mean many things: > >- Author an RFC >- Contribute to discussions on mailing lists >- Review drafts >- Comment on Last Calls >- Serve as Jabber Scribe >- Contribute to WG minutes >- Serve as a WG Chair or AD Dave Crocker suggested using "on-going active participation" as it may not be clear to the average reader what the IETF means by participation. It has been pointed out to me that serving as Jabber Scribe is not considered as active participation. Please note that I have volunteered as Jabber Scribe. Contributing to WG minutes is not active participation. Please note that I have taken WG minutes. As an example I edited the minutes at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/minutes/minutes-85-spfbis The draft says: "Can be objectively said to have actively participated in IETF activities for more than six months, and subjectively, such that those contributions are considered useful." >But in the scope of the fellowship, it could also include: > >- Actively follow drafts and discussions to better understand your >network/application implementation >- Provide awareness to the IETF and encourage involvement >- Provide workshops on how to get involved in the IETF >- Help local communities better understand the value of Open Standards I see. That explains why Lars Eggert has the impression that: "ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to the IETF who may become allies on the political layer - regulators, state-run telco people, government officials, etc." "But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to help build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And that's fine, because it wasn't designed to be." Now I understand why some IETF participants look down on people from emerging regions. It does not bother me if some IETF participants look down on me. It might prove to be quite entertaining. :-) >No definition is any less worthy of the other, and almost all of them >contribute back to the IETF, either directly or indirectly. The goal of >the programme is to provide an opportunity for engineers from emerging and >developing economies to experience an IETF meeting and 'actively >participate' in the way that is suitable to both a newcomer to the IETF as >well as contribute to their local community's increased involvement in the >Open Standards development process. The above clarifies why Lars Eggert mentioned that the programme wasn't designed to be efficient. I don't understand why people are commenting about open standards development process. My reading of a message from Stephen Farrell is that "all the predicting the future stuff (how this'll make me/the world better)" is not a good idea. Regards, S. Moonesamy From lars@netapp.com Thu Oct 3 09:32:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B8921E80A1 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.320, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mkeO4js+lekz for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBEA21F918C for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:19:39 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1027,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="96345888" Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 03 Oct 2013 09:19:39 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:19:39 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOvIEUpf/VXwHv0U2r+0UbkseLRJndXT+AgANJIwCAAAGegIAACFIAgAAjgoCAATLlAIAAmeyAgACWFoCAAG5PAA== Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 16:19:38 +0000 Message-ID: <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07926850-5D69-4D94-9240-43ACEBD9C6DA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , Steve Conte Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:32:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07926850-5D69-4D94-9240-43ACEBD9C6DA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Oct 3, 2013, at 2:44, S Moonesamy wrote: >> But in the scope of the fellowship, it could also include: >>=20 >> - Actively follow drafts and discussions to better understand your >> network/application implementation >> - Provide awareness to the IETF and encourage involvement >> - Provide workshops on how to get involved in the IETF >> - Help local communities better understand the value of Open = Standards >=20 > I see. That explains why Lars Eggert has the impression that: >=20 > "ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to the IETF who may become allies = on > the political layer - regulators, state-run telco people, government > officials, etc." >=20 > "But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting = to help > build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And = that's > fine, because it wasn't designed to be." >=20 > Now I understand why some IETF participants look down on people from = emerging regions. It does not bother me if some IETF participants look = down on me. It might prove to be quite entertaining. :-) ahem. Just for the record: I don't look down on participants from = emerging reasons. I'm saying that some of the people ISOC brings in, they are brought in = for other reasons than hoping they will start contributing to the = technical IETF work. And that's fine. >> No definition is any less worthy of the other, and almost all of them >> contribute back to the IETF, either directly or indirectly. The goal = of >> the programme is to provide an opportunity for engineers from = emerging and >> developing economies to experience an IETF meeting and 'actively >> participate' in the way that is suitable to both a newcomer to the = IETF as >> well as contribute to their local community's increased involvement = in the >> Open Standards development process. >=20 > The above clarifies why Lars Eggert mentioned that the programme = wasn't designed to be efficient. Where did I say that? Efficiency is related to how much effort one needs to spend to perform = at a certain level for a certain metric. What I'm saying is that at least part of ISOC's programs (thanks, = Arturo, for clarifying that there are several) have a metric that is = different from the one you seem to think should be primary. (Grooming = potential allies for the political debate vs. grooming future technical = IETF contributors.) And that is fine. I'm not saying we shouldn't think about how we can attract more IETF = contributors from emerging regions (or academia, or non-white-males, or = beardless folks, etc.) All I'm saying is that there are different = motivations to sponsor someone's attendance, and we need to be clear = about that. Lars --Apple-Mail=_07926850-5D69-4D94-9240-43ACEBD9C6DA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUk2ZGtZcnpRveo1xAQJ8SAP8DzHpMxFJGsKsRMzHHrLdtNwY6ugG0dLB c06hwmtGJzAIAQZoEGHF6NtwdAFhS/4PCo0giw7PW3yRVPdsnAvFSW4+oxBNcdiJ 0GUFOVOgFP47+sdImguRvi9RCbEkq4dT37nzMZEx1JpTJ9fBBO6qLLDLqpaAFpDA XlFFItkqCfU= =G6pd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_07926850-5D69-4D94-9240-43ACEBD9C6DA-- From dhc@dcrocker.net Thu Oct 3 10:11:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACCD21F8C93 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.836 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.836 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.763, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFwClJic1nR8 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A8921F8D20 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r93Gq6ro010418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:52:10 -0700 Message-ID: <524DA086.9030909@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 09:51:18 -0700 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.66]); Thu, 03 Oct 2013 09:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: "" , Steve Conte , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 17:11:39 -0000 Folks, Please permit a small attempt to re-focus this thread away from some apparent controversy and towards a simpler, gentler view. And as one who is entirely comfortable criticizing problematic activities, I'll stress that what follows isn't meant merely as polite form, but as a strong suggestion that there is no "problem" in the current situation, only opportunity for more and better... ISOC is a separate organization from the IETF. We often forget that, because ISOC is so tightly integrated into the fabric of IETF activity. However every now and again, we get examples of the fact that it is separate, which means that it can and does sometimes see a different picture of things than the IETF does. In this case, different means broader, not conflicting. These differences don't demonstrate anything bad or even problematic, but merely difference. (For a discussion on diversity, we might want to consider the challenge of distinguishing 'difference' from 'problem' and how naturally we seem to get confused about it...) ISOC's Fellowship program is ISOC's program, started at run by ISOC, not the IETF, no matter how delighted we are with the existence of the program. Again, it's easy to get confused about this, since its venue is the IETF. From the description ISOC provides, it has several goals, one of which is to help get more diverse IETF participation. I'd characterize the other goals as serving larger Internet benefits, beyond the IETF. Again -- and yes, I think the repetition is needed -- not only is there nothing wrong with ISOC's effort here, there is only goodness. The IETF diversity effort and SM's draft have the narrower scope of increasing diversity in IETF participation. Again, nothing 'bad' about that narrower scope; and again, only goodness: it permits us to focus on a shared need for a broader base of participation. So any changes that SM's draft might propose are not to fix a problem with the ISOC effort, but rather to build upon the excellent initiative they have taken, albeit build upon one particular aspect of that initiative. In other words, there really is neither need nor basis for using any critical language about the current effort. Let's just focus on augmenting what we've got. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 3 11:23:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD5621E80A3 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:23:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.803 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.803 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.796, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdncnTMhamMJ for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84CE21F9951 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.138.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r93I9II1005409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:11:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380823872; bh=cQDGjWUpkXRZnYvaM1AaMWAq8V+f0JkfhfSGG1zkbDU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Op0QIx9e+62nTFv4frNg57kcTM7dY9iUUSTtO0GcgM1XfhGUwER1C1ZT7mv8CWNOV 0NiOLNtEP1qCWrYbLTX5bmYivu2RKd8RmZ96T01tUfszZPRxE5df96ml0B5bMIXvM6 Io0BUfpYQWnejEt4IHUz3UnfS+5dQJk3o/ou+Xrk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380823872; i=@elandsys.com; bh=cQDGjWUpkXRZnYvaM1AaMWAq8V+f0JkfhfSGG1zkbDU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=WYq1FgdrHmG6EKp6aaBjxyWl3NCYwl/2jBbNW5WEqY5pzSea71dwaarUvpbQmaX5U 3pxhE4Sk8wBwT3c65BTXzB27aLHhgdI/1PgPesuMfO3CErvmF2AC59TPTDlUWQwOka SRV1Ci50F/YGvR/Uc/fOz/l4zn0JUqsB6bfL8mRQ= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131003103635.0d6744d8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:06:54 -0700 To: "Eggert, Lars" From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Steve Conte Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 18:23:46 -0000 Hi Lars, At 09:19 03-10-2013, Eggert, Lars wrote: >ahem. Just for the record: I don't look down on participants from >emerging reasons. I don't think that you look down on participants. >I'm saying that some of the people ISOC brings in, they are brought >in for other reasons than hoping they will start contributing to the >technical IETF work. And that's fine. It is better not to mention them in IETF diversity discussions if that is the case. >Where did I say that? http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00374.html >Efficiency is related to how much effort one needs to spend to >perform at a certain level for a certain metric. Ok. >What I'm saying is that at least part of ISOC's programs (thanks, >Arturo, for clarifying that there are several) have a metric that is >different from the one you seem to think should be primary. >(Grooming potential allies for the political debate vs. grooming >future technical IETF contributors.) And that is fine. I am aware that there are several programmes. The draft has references to the technical programme. It is okay if I am told that it is a non-technical programme. >I'm not saying we shouldn't think about how we can attract more IETF >contributors from emerging regions (or academia, or non-white-males, >or beardless folks, etc.) All I'm saying is that there are different >motivations to sponsor someone's attendance, and we need to be clear >about that. Ok. Regards, S. Moonesamy From lars@netapp.com Thu Oct 3 11:32:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1968021E808D for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:32:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.943, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j-D4uLMkBMNK for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81CE221E8094 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1027,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="96379534" Received: from vmwexceht06-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.104]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 03 Oct 2013 11:22:40 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht06-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.104]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:22:40 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: S Moonesamy Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOwGQIX3eftay8zkmS5l52sTz8mJnjv6WA Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 18:22:39 +0000 Message-ID: <44310EA1-C937-46CD-A2B6-22F58F1FFDC2@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> <9844A260-CD3B-4979-864E-F7ACFBB477A5@netapp.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131003103635.0d6744d8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131003103635.0d6744d8@elandnews.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F94CE9AC-C6BD-4503-BE18-38B0B6113E9A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , Steve Conte Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 18:32:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F94CE9AC-C6BD-4503-BE18-38B0B6113E9A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Oct 3, 2013, at 11:06, S Moonesamy wrote: >> I'm saying that some of the people ISOC brings in, they are brought = in for other reasons than hoping they will start contributing to the = technical IETF work. And that's fine. >=20 > It is better not to mention them in IETF diversity discussions if that = is the case. why not? They do (also) make the IETF more diverse, by bringing in = different viewpoints and experiences, even if only for a few meetings = and more indirectly than if they made actual engineering contributions. >> Where did I say that? >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00374.html I'm sorry, but you wrote "Lars Eggert mentioned that the programme = wasn't designed to be efficient". The email you point to has me say: But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to help build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And that's fine, because it wasn't designed to be. So let's not quibble about effective vs. efficient. But I was still = careful to say that I believed the ISOC program was not designed to be = effective ***in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers = wanting to help build the Internet***. It is (probably) much more = effective in fulfilling the metric is *was* designed to target. That's a = much more carefully qualified statement than your broad = generalization/misrepresentation. I think I'm going to stop responding to this thread now. Lars --Apple-Mail=_F94CE9AC-C6BD-4503-BE18-38B0B6113E9A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUk2179ZcnpRveo1xAQJCAgP/YbIkSgirO1zDcKhDVv/38xlO7lZayuu2 BstcdW6Ri4EtYAMJ4ZgNFvkyykC6edvBSznm9XtgSghRQEqqscTCapi+Sb9XLlPE cTqO4kQ9n+TTffrSY5IEkCxkigs5FbueKWZFdTlsv2B+0otVY4lRfVKh3yG0fRUj kCnutOSNiko= =O965 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F94CE9AC-C6BD-4503-BE18-38B0B6113E9A-- From alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com Thu Oct 3 12:34:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E9B21E809E for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZDGCWHV4LGoq for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x236.google.com (mail-ye0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB43421F93F8 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f182.google.com with SMTP id q7so159781yen.27 for ; Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QMHdX7bdPAvH01YKeEZrcOetegLKypwXODlmVfi9Qgw=; b=KWTzYAKY27VAUeAPBwCBJXyqSFJv8sMRxlDfBT6Fy8MwI8GvXs3Obq0/shIEmHIXvJ 33u4sJAp/0qH3pdNYIElfvLXiRlpwA01SyLzJwIVGmKT/hKLxw10l7jC86kv04aDq3MU l2OoPtyx7ZT05t6vJTBuz8EArCYtWENsk6igvjVSf9J5ICLPvqe0UrXaIPO5Yt1XavzN 5sWGd7TKU77MsOzNsQrwlUDzOSLKDqn+SfKKnkaMbfFx6ZyiwzjHYlYqeZhfvz1Kz4Vu katMPFQeSb1/Q8xhcUJZO77HnBGB0W0fXoIwEPK5nRlAOv7mV+KNRY2DV9VQfxJlpWYh HK5g== X-Received: by 10.236.102.46 with SMTP id c34mr1785918yhg.101.1380827820223; Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.105] ([186.95.120.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j67sm12950751yhe.26.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <524DBBA0.4030702@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:16:56 -0430 From: Alejandro Acosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <7351E76F-72E0-4839-827E-62A80E6D4458@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20130930055517.0ccf7da0@elandnews.com> <3A1B1F5E-96B0-4200-A1B4-244D11C858BF@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131001150529.0d22b540@elandnews.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:34:46 -0000 On 01/10/13 19:45, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Adiel, > At 14:47 01-10-2013, Adiel Akplogan wrote: >> I'm not sure, as I see in the current draft many valid principles and {...} >> Also if the IETF use "emerging region" maybe that will need to be >> revisited as well to align with the reality and contribute to deliver >> a clear message. My 2 cents: I prefer the sentence: "emerging economics". I think it's a more accurate term. > > (i) Person A is from Country B. The person can be said to have actively > participated in IETF activities for more than six months. > > (ii) Person C is from Country D. The person has not actively participated > in IETF activities for more than six months. > > Person C (ii) is selected and Person A (i) is not selected. It can be a > disincentive to Person A and that person might find better things to do > instead of volunteering for IETF work. In my personal opinion it can > have a negative impact on IETF work. > > I leave it to the IETF Community to clarify what "emerging regions" means. > >> I believe that IETF volunteers have already worked and addressed more >> complex issue than that :-). > > I prefer simple issues. :-) > >> Is it that this is less important? > > In my personal opinion a work is less important when there aren't enough > IETF participants who can do the work. > >> Some, but not all. And if we want to create the interest we may need >> to start raising awareness within the Engineering/Technology student >> community. It won't be mainly about the work done at University but >> about raising the awareness on Open standard and how "easy" it is to >> contribute to / influence it. > > I have personally tried the awareness within the student community. It > was not a work-related effort. It did not generate significant interest > to deliver results. > > I actually tell people that it is difficult to contribute. I found > people who agree to contribute in spite of what I said. Oddly enough, > some of these people are from emerging regions. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity Alejandro Acosta, From alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com Thu Oct 3 12:41:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9536621E80DE for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwSJW3fuBGKX for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x22a.google.com (mail-ye0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE9721F9BC2 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f170.google.com with SMTP id r4so733501yen.1 for ; Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:22:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XGlEvdQKRCFekZAjD4YdDdvJaEn92/GMzc23XyMvxGM=; b=ePMl+WayYdDz2FndzYn5QvEh1JAU6E768/k6bAbc25ytQ1HeGBbxRtCiNXSG0xs0b/ Ux/P9eVFehl87Bstci2YVTLZGRf/B53TSA9de0Och+MwJ6PpfiRLKOfS621AvKbBTuBh JXTqBAjHneYGT1LYpRi12vk0j/Dr6WxUIwn56Fc2enx/uZpkJysgD/FrGBofMwVYqysv UyR9NcA8MQPHUGBI/DLY/aFX7fe44Pj2cDbt3uDza9lu3X5l5dDGPu1EnJtJ0UdTbXXN j3s9WYw26Sev1QH4K7IXfuiUzKEVsCEcYoG6PfXK5MkdhQyiexiEhEaBk/7VTB6ctgdG iKHw== X-Received: by 10.236.147.210 with SMTP id t58mr8444060yhj.1.1380828141304; Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.105] ([186.95.120.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v45sm13052672yha.2.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Oct 2013 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <524DBCE1.3030902@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:22:17 -0430 From: Alejandro Acosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002045328.0d46e8c8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131002225721.0ae5d8e8@elandnews.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:41:28 -0000 Hi SM, Regardless of the other comments or threads I agree with Steve suggestions and it worth to mention them in your draft, I would have liked to read it when accepting my first ISOC fellowship :) Thanks, Alejandro, On 03/10/13 05:14, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Steve, > At 17:47 02-10-2013, Steve Conte wrote: >> I'm moving this back to the diversity thread where the active >> conversation >> is taking place. I'm unsure why you changed the distribution to be >> outside >> of the thread. I note that you didn't include the full context of my >> message when you changed the distribution. > > I mentioned previously that the work on the draft is a volunteer effort > and not a work-related effort. I cannot afford to spend years on such > efforts. In my opinion the draft is ready for IETF Community input (I > have to get back to Dave Crocker and make some changes). I send it to > the relevant mailing list and move on. > >> I also don't feel that you answered my question. How does the mechanisms >> of the ISOC Fellowship to the IETF affect the question of increasing the >> diversity of the IETF? > > That is an answer for the IETF Community to find. I contacted the Chair > of the ISOC Board of Trustees. He responded quickly. If my request was > unrelated to the diversity of the IETF he would have told me so. > > Here's a comment from Michael StJohns: > > "Who have you mentored in the past 5 years? Have they ended up as > working group chairs, or ADs or IAB members? Do they mostly represent > under-represented groups? How many of them were employed by your > employer > (e.g. was this a work related task?)? > > During your time as an AD, how many women did you arm twist/recruit > specifically (or ask nicely) to take WG positions in your area > (as opposed to them coming to you or your co-AD)?" > > My answers to those questions are at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg78939.html > > As you have been helpful I can try to get you a formal reply (see > question above) from the IETF. Let me know if you would like me to look > into that. > >> Looking at your draft, you make several references to 'active >> participation'. As I mentioned in my previous mail (which I'm reattaching >> to capture the full context), active participation could mean many >> things: >> >> - Author an RFC >> - Contribute to discussions on mailing lists >> - Review drafts >> - Comment on Last Calls >> - Serve as Jabber Scribe >> - Contribute to WG minutes >> - Serve as a WG Chair or AD > > Dave Crocker suggested using "on-going active participation" as it may > not be clear to the average reader what the IETF means by > participation. It has been pointed out to me that serving as Jabber > Scribe is not considered as active participation. Please note that I > have volunteered as Jabber Scribe. Contributing to WG minutes is not > active participation. Please note that I have taken WG minutes. As an > example I edited the minutes at > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/minutes/minutes-85-spfbis > > The draft says: > > "Can be objectively said to have actively participated in IETF > activities for more than six months, and subjectively, such that > those contributions are considered useful." > >> But in the scope of the fellowship, it could also include: >> >> - Actively follow drafts and discussions to better understand your >> network/application implementation >> - Provide awareness to the IETF and encourage involvement >> - Provide workshops on how to get involved in the IETF >> - Help local communities better understand the value of Open Standards > > I see. That explains why Lars Eggert has the impression that: > > "ISOC is focusing on bringing folks to the IETF who may become allies on > the political layer - regulators, state-run telco people, government > officials, etc." > > "But in terms of increasing IETF participation by engineers wanting to > help > build the Internet, the ISOC program may not be very effective. And > that's > fine, because it wasn't designed to be." > > Now I understand why some IETF participants look down on people from > emerging regions. It does not bother me if some IETF participants look > down on me. It might prove to be quite entertaining. :-) > >> No definition is any less worthy of the other, and almost all of them >> contribute back to the IETF, either directly or indirectly. The goal of >> the programme is to provide an opportunity for engineers from emerging >> and >> developing economies to experience an IETF meeting and 'actively >> participate' in the way that is suitable to both a newcomer to the >> IETF as >> well as contribute to their local community's increased involvement in >> the >> Open Standards development process. > > The above clarifies why Lars Eggert mentioned that the programme wasn't > designed to be efficient. > > I don't understand why people are commenting about open standards > development process. My reading of a message from Stephen Farrell is that > > "all the predicting the future stuff (how this'll make me/the world > better)" > > is not a good idea. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 3 14:42:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B4321F84A8 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 14:42:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.696, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yVX2niH1vtMN for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 14:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB59711E80FD for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 14:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.138.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r93LfVd5016465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Oct 2013 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380836504; bh=2RN2F81CTCqcRZKTLE2kpEzsutcNadKt0YAGtw6N3h8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=EUvAYc89mIqB+AkxNT2mtMJznYl9j723Dr2T5Uv2zqSwT4QifZ3ST+5dqY3iIBiSV cSxiUXB43xxTq08N934Mo6iRk0FG3e9nOX/FsCqO9xVxSIPsebPyW/NYh186EWPLcT Wq+lOhTpbNutiOIabS1IkqsqQvYrxUSCg2YfgHrg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380836504; i=@elandsys.com; bh=2RN2F81CTCqcRZKTLE2kpEzsutcNadKt0YAGtw6N3h8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=cUnOoaeeo3yGvYu5DrHdYJgXFlZOYatg0ZRpPq2hQtDjVGta8r5jJXAcC3coL82aX c7vIwcZPSc7yfA7UAwVdj3Ouktju9qqwmElaI7LYtnXIrgiR7E/qQ0sD+V3eUYqJzu +/7gN4yEJ1PDyq/NMlvDQUu1A8PLQGbUuTiP+qJA= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131003112414.0d624d90@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:40:02 -0700 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <524C4B35.4060209@dcrocker.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20130928120841.0b7fa798@elandnews.com> <52485461.7000001@dcrocker.net> <4136C0EB-9009-4C4A-9C2A-3EDA7C04FB15@netapp.com> <524B1755.3000302@dcrocker.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20131001120842.0a92c3e0@elandnews.com> <524C4B35.4060209@dcrocker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from emerging regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:42:48 -0000 Hi Dave, At 09:35 02-10-2013, Dave Crocker wrote: >I suggest replacing "how to... diversity", by quoting Jari's text >explicitly. Being in sync with what he said is generally good for >something like this, since it links this draft better to existing >efforts and statements; plus I think his text is concise and useful: > > http://www.ietf.org/blog/2013/07/a-diverse-ietf/ > > "to understand the diversity problem and suggest solutions to > make the IETF more inclusive" Ok. I'll include the new text below. >Again, I suggest using ISOC's own language to describe its fellowship program: > >http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/ietf-and-ois-programmes/internet-society-fellowship > > "The Fellowship to the IETF helps to increase the diversity of > inputs to, and global awareness of the IETF's vital work." > >Then create linkage between it and what you are proposing. Hence, >something like: > > This document builds upon the ISOC work, proposing adjustments > and additional efforts, with the goal of enabling more sustained > and active participation by contributors from under-represented regions. > >I suspect we'll do better to have the draft use a term like >"under-represented sector" rather than "emerging region". The former >can permit including deserving and promising folk from a wider range >of places. I'm assuming that's a desirable change, but of course >it's a policy point that needs to be explicit. I have the "wider range of places" as an open issue (Section 5). I have the following text now: The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to understand the diversity problem and suggest solutions to make the IETF more inclusive. There is already an ISOC Fellowship programme to the IETF for participants from emerging regions. The Fellowship to the IETF helps to increase the diversity of inputs to, and global awareness of the IETF's vital work. This document builds upon the ISOC work, proposing adjustments and additional efforts, with the goal of enabling more sustained and active participation by contributors from an under-represented sector. I may have to change the title of the draft to: Enabling more sustained and active participation by contributors from an under-represented sector >Introduce this sub-section with: > > ISOC's efforts are encompassed by a basic Fellowship Programme > and a Returning Fellowship Programme. I added that. > an event -> a face-to-face IETF meeting That's much better. >To help lay the foundation for the incremental proposal the draft is making... > > encourages active -> lays the foundation for active Ok. I left in the FEL reference. >The text at [RET] refers to attending one more meeting, rather than >continuing attendance. The language here ought to reflect this >limitation, since it's quite a major point, IMO. The limitation is one meeting per year. I'll add the following to Section 2.2: "A Returning Fellowship award will not be given to the same individual twice in one calendar year." >'less well' requires some existing context about alignment, that >isn't provided in the draft. I suggest a change that makes the >sentence introduce the concern: > > less well-aligned -> can be better aligned Done. >The IETF isn't a person and doesn't have 'expectations'. I changed the title of Section 3.1 to "Expectations of the IETF Community" I made some editorial changes to Section 1 because of the above two changes. >Replace first sentence with: > > The current ISOC Fellowship Programme is primarily useful for > initial introductions to IETF activities and culture. However the > goal in the IETF, itself, is for continuing and active > participation, which goes considerably beyond > introductions. Moving from introduction to participation requires > additional effort. Here is the entire paragraph: The current ISOC Fellowship Programme is primarily useful for initial introductions to IETF activities and culture. However the goal in the IETF, itself, is for continuing and active participation, which goes considerably beyond introductions. Moving from introduction to participation requires additional effort.. Although attending IETF meetings fosters an understanding of the work of the IETF it does not ensure active participation. Active participation in the work of an IETF Working Group is listed as an advantage instead of a requirement for the fellowship [SEL]. >The draft is suggesting an actual mis-match between the programme >and IETF's operating culture. So the draft should flag the point as >being an issue. "However" is a small flag. So... > > It -> However it I added "however". >The basic program already encourages participation. So... > > to encourage -> to further encourage Ok. I used "an under-represented sector" in that sentence. >The above, last sentence confuses me a bit. Pursued by >whom? Perhaps the draft means to That was rough text for the draft. > say something like: > > It is unclear how an ISOC Fellow can build upon the initial -- > but limited -- experiences of the basic Programme and Returning > Fellow Programme, to achieve the Fellow's technical leadership > potential, through on-going, active participation in the IETF. I used the above text. >>4. Suggestions >> >>4.1. Selection criteria for the fellowship > >Is this being suggested as a replacement set of criteria? And for >which of the two Programmes? Again, this text needs context that >links it to the existing activities and text. It is a generic criteria for both programmes. I added "basic and returning" in the section title. >Replace with: > > Has been actively and constructively participating in the IETF for > at least six months. I made this change. >To cover a wider range of activities, such as writing a draft: > > reviews performed -> contributions made Ok. >Hmmm. The challenge here is that the Panel needs to be fairly >small, while the range of possible applications might be large, >therefore requiring a range of ADs or WG Chairs who have had contact >with them. That is, the draft is seeking to have members of the >Evaluation Panel be folk with direct experience of the applicants, >but I'd expect that to require too many people. So I suspect that a >more efficient suggestion would be something like: > > - Applicants shall summarize their specific contributions to the IETF > > - Applicants shall solicit Area Directors, working group chairs, > authors and other active IETF participants, to send supporting > notes on their behalf to the Evaluation Panel. These notes should > comment on the nature and extent of contributions made by the application. > > - The Evaluation Panel may also solicit comments from IETF > participants who have had contact with the applicant. Section 4.2 is avoids getting into the details of the evaluation panel. In essence, the draft suggests selection criteria so that the person has a lesser barrier understanding the IETF. Some of the above would be guidance to applicants. I kept the guidance short to limit the amount of suggestions made. >Hmmm. That last sentence strikes me as a major policy point, and >one with justifications and problems in either direction. > >For example, a policy like that can lead to awards going to a small, >stagnant set of active contributors. While the goodness of that is >that they are useful contributors, the downside is that it doesn't >bring in more new people. Mumble... Yes. In practice a high set of active contributors cannot be attained within a few years. If it does happen the IETF will be over-productive. :-) >That's certainly a reasonable goal for a programme like this, but it >seems to be much more narrow than ISOC's current language suggests. >Again, this sounds like a significant policy change. I'll remove the first sentence. >Assessment should look for the whys and hows of both continued >involvement as well as lack of continued involvement. Yes. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Fri Oct 4 03:25:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222FE21F8F32 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 03:25:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.619, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lZtgJ4bW1+nD for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 03:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B71B21F98EE for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 03:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.138.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r94AOkXR005134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Oct 2013 03:25:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1380882305; bh=PHXkHxS3vQyMPMbmaQnBzmILk7PiNBW9PnS8uNPnYwc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=p5SU9rB2iDbqhYgWpuMdPYx9c8d8RjLBr9dtUb27e8HNO38nwxKw3TnMy+eN0HyYK 4nCbcFD2H04E//TUOzwYxepdqBTr4vcZ0BKc/T4Y6J2b2mIYgSkMP8/6fM+l46jkAa K+RqtMpAv4Ma1Ryt5gT+7WKZOEMA+Fl5gD1fLRfY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1380882305; i=@elandsys.com; bh=PHXkHxS3vQyMPMbmaQnBzmILk7PiNBW9PnS8uNPnYwc=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Orht5u23rnE9+HkUsxd7Cn2BKoKOBdg2+WqpyU1OrZDm2ZXSGXEfdXv4jxsDCFjkc wB4gr3qSpPe2BNBoWmwyvxWh9V4tU9hfYeosLw8jrQjx7/NPLWw9QSUOngYo3WFTaB UWssflUYBhQ6+LRx/wOKmxt3jV7vxpygQY/zlOcs= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131004013949.0d62ec70@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 02:41:48 -0700 To: Aaron Yi DING From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: [Diversity] Strong criticism (was: ietf networking research) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 10:25:41 -0000 Hi Aaron, At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough >question - how to identify work that suits IETF. Without >collaborating with experts who already have sufficient experience >@IETF, I personally don't think the 'pure' researchers have much clue about it. I received some private feedback. I suggest that you use it in your initiative as it might be a more value there. It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than research problems in the IETF. The comment mentioned that it was still useful to go to the IETF. It was also mentioned that the direct and negative feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. Note that the students attending the IETF for the first time get a little scared because of this. I think that the issue is more about how to handle the strong criticism which is unlike what may be experienced at a research conference. It was mentioned that the time and effort for actively working in the IETF does often not help directly for a PhD thesis. Oddly enough, the people got a very positive impression of the IETF and found it more useful to talk to people at the IETF than people at research conferences. Is it the strong criticism which brings input and good ideas? Regards, S. Moonesamy From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 4 05:05:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5563521F86BE for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 05:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02IALFmmZb5e for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 05:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A7F21F84F9 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 05:04:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.33]:54750) by ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp id 1VS47N-0003so-0R (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:04:25 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VS47N-000hKO-2Z (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:04:25 +0100 Received: from c234.al.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.110.234]) by webmail-1.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:04:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:04:25 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: sm+ietf@elandsys.com Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: <37ae7751e0e11792a9f59f94e719b339@cam.ac.uk> X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.4 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, xing@cernet.edu.cn, lear@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] Strong criticism (was: ietf networking research) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 12:05:44 -0000 Hi SM, Thanks for your anonymous feedback. For your question, "Is it the strong criticism which brings input and good ideas?" IMO, it depends on the situation. Sometimes the comments from academia are not be as sharp as IETF ones. It is true, but certain criticisms are just due to that audience didn't fully capture what the researchers are doing (partially from the academic presentation style, and of course there are work that obviously don't fit in...) Criticism being strong probably does not link directly to good feedback nor ideas. Experts (engineer/researcher) shall be capable of spotting meaningful feedback from either mild or strong criticism. At least, we shall learn it. For the other comment "the people got a very positive impression of the IETF and found it more useful to talk to people at the IETF than people at research conferences." hmm.., that depends on who she/he has been talking to :) It's not so hard to find interesting people at both sides. Cheers, Aaron PS: whether IETF work will help research like thesis work, it's still too early to judge. And that's actually what we are trying to improve. On 04/10/13 10:41, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Aaron, > At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote: >> Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough question >> - how to identify work that suits IETF. Without collaborating with >> experts who already have sufficient experience @IETF, I personally >> don't think the 'pure' researchers have much clue about it. > > I received some private feedback. I suggest that you use it in your > initiative as it might be a more value there. > > It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than > research problems in the IETF. The comment mentioned that it was still > useful to go to the IETF. It was also mentioned that the direct and > negative feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. > Note that the students attending the IETF for the first time get a > little scared because of this. I think that the issue is more about > how to handle the strong criticism which is unlike what may be > experienced at a research conference. > > It was mentioned that the time and effort for actively working in the > IETF does often not help directly for a PhD thesis. Oddly enough, the > people got a very positive impression of the IETF and found it more > useful to talk to people at the IETF than people at research > conferences. > > Is it the strong criticism which brings input and good ideas? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy From vinayakh@gmail.com Fri Oct 4 06:03:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9371021F9A7E for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 06:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.609 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.609 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.991, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id veJH6MyDoWKN for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 06:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E69521F9CAF for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 05:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id y13so4014237pdi.5 for ; Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7IMATQfDClKpLwo8sDbB6vCh8B2TuXqzw44RlZovMU8=; b=jUPrfG4s4WuaHcl4Y+aUvUI3ctHO+lDWFLG7a7sRwx6BX2ZFPQP5PRpLcQtv07o4vF uXGKfPG54/IM3eoBwRZM2bCid34U79u5fZlfm53ZzN1WzrQXD+GuzDY9+kEkNeIneS0J uhO5SrfxTr3SIamu+8rDE1y327CWL73LG2iQJSfAHm/p79AwTKkInRptz2S8u+lUy5mo WtyiE6M8cP5XFceIiKF2DF/Mi35NTkep7kBGI6tabwhQC5MXHs8G80iCL6iJUCrFUmeU IlbEobYb9FFTMm7hMFef2SJFvTTYxxMBihHD53aFyt1+hKfF9o3YV9auks8WEvrUBjku W5+Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.49.232 with SMTP id x8mr3073388pbn.167.1380891007802; Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.90.39 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131004013949.0d62ec70@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131004013949.0d62ec70@elandnews.com> Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 18:20:07 +0530 Message-ID: From: Vinayak Hegde To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec544f080fe660f04e7e9bd65 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Aaron Yi DING Subject: Re: [Diversity] Strong criticism (was: ietf networking research) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:03:53 -0000 --bcaec544f080fe660f04e7e9bd65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Aaron, > At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote: > >> Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough question - >> how to identify work that suits IETF. Without collaborating with experts >> who already have sufficient experience @IETF, I personally don't think the >> 'pure' researchers have much clue about it. >> > > I received some private feedback. I suggest that you use it in your > initiative as it might be a more value there. > > It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than > research problems in the IETF. The comment mentioned that it was still > useful to go to the IETF. It was also mentioned that the direct and > negative feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. Note > that the students attending the IETF for the first time get a little scared > because of this. I think that the issue is more about how to handle the > strong criticism which is unlike what may be experienced at a research > conference. > A couple of points about strong opinions that I have gathered from attending a few IETFs. Strong opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt though they do have a lot of truth in them generally. 1. The engineers who participate in the IETF get real life feedback and learn from their hard mistakes. So any design / implementation issues affect them directly as they are the implementors or the go-to persons for standards in the organizations. We also learn the hard way that once an implementation is out on the field it is often hard to change it (especially that is tied to hardware). Also often the world changes and use/abuses the protocol in ways that were not envisioned earlier. eg. HTTP being used as transport and control mechanism for videos and the corresponding load on last-mile networks. 2. It is often tedious for the old-timers to see newbies and newer contributors make the same mistakes they did / they suffered. So that is often the sentiment in expressing an opinion strongly (to avoid making the same mistakes). It is a way of transmitting knowledge / DNA /Design principles / philosophies amongst participating engineers. Eg. the way http-auth is implemented in browsers. 3. However over I have observed (with me as well) that opinions get calcified with time. The premise for making those decisions no longer exists and the world has moved on. eg. The NSA surveillance and trust anyone easily architecture of email. my 2 bits -- Vinayak --bcaec544f080fe660f04e7e9bd65 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough question - how= to identify work that suits IETF. Without collaborating with experts who a= lready have sufficient experience @IETF, I personally don't think the &= #39;pure' researchers have much clue about it.

I received some private feedback. =A0I suggest that you use it in your init= iative as it might be a more value there.

It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than rese= arch problems in the IETF. =A0The comment mentioned that it was still usefu= l to go to the IETF. =A0It was also mentioned that the direct and negative = feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. =A0Note that the= students attending the IETF for the first time get a little scared because= of this. =A0I think that the issue is more about how to handle the strong = criticism which is unlike what may be experienced at a research conference.=

A couple of points about strong opinions t= hat I have gathered from attending a few IETFs. Strong opinions should be t= aken with a pinch of salt though they do have a lot of truth in them genera= lly.

1. The engineers who participate in the IETF get real life f= eedback and learn from their hard mistakes. So any design / implementation = issues affect them directly as they are the implementors or the go-to perso= ns for standards in the organizations. We also learn the hard way that once= an implementation is out on the field it is often hard to change it (espec= ially that is tied to hardware). Also often the world changes and use/abuse= s the protocol in ways that were not envisioned earlier. eg. HTTP being use= d as transport and control mechanism for videos and the corresponding load = on last-mile networks.

2. It is often tedious for the old-timers to see newbies and= newer contributors make the same mistakes they did / they suffered. So tha= t is often the sentiment in expressing an opinion strongly (to avoid making= the same mistakes). It is a way of transmitting knowledge / DNA /Design pr= inciples / philosophies amongst participating engineers. Eg. the way http-a= uth is implemented in browsers.

3. However over I have observed (with me as well) that opini= ons get calcified with time. The premise for making those decisions no long= er exists and the world has moved on. eg. The NSA surveillance and trust an= yone easily architecture of email.

my 2 bits

-- Vinayak=
--bcaec544f080fe660f04e7e9bd65-- From adrian@olddog.co.uk Fri Oct 4 12:48:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D6621F9A70 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 12:48:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.357 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.173, BAYES_40=-0.185, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wd305YGFsy6E for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 12:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBDA21F940D for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 12:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r94Jm6fm014383 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:48:06 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r94Jm4vY014366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:48:05 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 20:48:01 +0100 Message-ID: <060401cec13a$a2f719d0$e8e54d70$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0605_01CEC143.04BD0870" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQG7pCVuN9ARcvV46t1HjRslPZHac5oLLH5A Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [Diversity] FW: Press Release: IEEE Photonics Society Raises Industry Awareness Through New Global Initiatives X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2013 19:48:16 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0605_01CEC143.04BD0870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case others are not aware of this, here is an edit from an IEEE Photonics Society press release. Adrian From: ips-pubs-authors@IEEE.ORG [mailto:ips-pubs-authors@IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Photonics Society Sent: 04 October 2013 20:25 To: photonics-society-members@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; photonics-society-past-attendees@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; ips-pubs-authors@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Press Release: IEEE Photonics Society Raises Industry Awareness Through New Global Initiatives IEEE Photonics Society Raises Industry Awareness Through New Global Initiatives Collaborating with IEEE Women in Engineering and the launch of a chapter in New Delhi, the Society is focused on increasing member engagement and industry relevance Piscataway, NJ (October 1, 2013) - The IEEE Photonics Society (IPS), a leading global network of scientists and engineers representing the laser, optoelectronics and photonics community, continues to grow as a result of the launch of several new programs since the start of 2013. WOMEN IN ENGINEERING In addition to NPI, IPS is collaborating with IEEE Women in Engineering (WIE) to showcase the volunteer efforts and dedication of their female members. Under the leadership of IEEE Fellow and IPS President-Elect, Dalma Novak, and IEEE Photonics Journal Editor-in-Chief, Carmen Menoni, the society's collaboration with WIE is designed to encourage women around the world to pursue careers in the photonics industry. WIE plans to feature Novak in the December issue of IEEE WIE Magazine, which will detail her industry accomplishments, leadership roles, and her vision for the Society after she becomes president in 2014. Novak, as well as Menoni, will participate in WIE Live-Chats throughout the remainder of the year with the goal of spurring discussions that connect women engineers with the photonics community. To participate in the Dalma Novak, IPS President-Elect, Live-Chat, visit http://www.ustream.tv/channel/dalma-novak at 10:30am EDT on October 11, 2013. ------=_NextPart_000_0605_01CEC143.04BD0870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In case others are not aware = of this, here is an edit from an IEEE Photonics Society press = release.

 

Adrian

 

From: = ips-pubs-authors@IEEE.ORG [mailto:ips-pubs-authors@IEEE.ORG] On = Behalf Of Photonics Society
Sent: 04 October 2013 = 20:25
To: photonics-society-members@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; = photonics-society-past-attendees@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; = ips-pubs-authors@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Press Release: = IEEE Photonics Society Raises Industry Awareness Through New Global = Initiatives

 

IEEE = Photonics Society Raises Industry Awareness Through New Global = Initiatives

Col= laborating with IEEE Women in Engineering and the launch of a chapter in = New Delhi, the Society is focused on increasing member = engagement and industry relevance


Piscataway, NJ = (October 1, 2013) – The IEEE Photonics Society (IPS), a = leading global network of scientists and engineers representing the = laser, optoelectronics and photonics community, continues to grow as a = result of the launch of several new programs since the start of = 2013.

WOMEN IN ENGINEERING
In addition to NPI, IPS is = collaborating with IEEE Women in Engineering (WIE) to showcase the = volunteer efforts and dedication of their female members. Under the = leadership of IEEE Fellow and IPS President-Elect, Dalma Novak, and IEEE = Photonics Journal Editor-in-Chief, Carmen Menoni, the society’s = collaboration with WIE is designed to encourage women around the world = to pursue careers in the photonics industry.

WIE plans to feature = Novak in the December issue of IEEE WIE Magazine, which will detail her = industry accomplishments, leadership roles, and her vision for the = Society after she becomes president in 2014. Novak, as well as Menoni, = will participate in WIE Live-Chats throughout the remainder of the year = with the goal of spurring discussions that connect women engineers with = the photonics community.

To participate in the Dalma Novak, IPS = President-Elect, Live-Chat, visit http://www.ustream.tv/channel/dalma-novak at = 10:30am EDT on October 11, = 2013.

------=_NextPart_000_0605_01CEC143.04BD0870-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sun Oct 6 05:24:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E9921E809B for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:24:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ol8Mop0dgKCb for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22c.google.com (mail-pb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DC721E809C for ; Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id xa7so5933378pbc.17 for ; Sun, 06 Oct 2013 05:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7162U+iXYISISMWCbPg9KhSqeWVMeeKXIuXxsc/QraA=; b=l3HxKgEim3RjDmCX0nvwy4AfAbNGnRooaBfJNn8s3SkbWBQ0jyLpe0V16pkYzwKNyh WskjoIaRfilrRzZgsXpDJe0bWnaKkYVXTiiapdBkhVOI7CVMx1ZCe0KPoxnN+CIpy0sf DbTivplMrEN7fIOM1yT86RKdNG1COB4Vjk58V8GhxD8zhOr7IHSBRzUcdeoNrGXoFzeX LXXwEoI80gTAyZf+T10ZIfYYnxF4eYg4LHtV3uKDSLCArtCZJSQMNDd3NKDtJ2T+32r8 SOjqddgaBaU+tczE0L0hhz8IfT40peq7bjnbR1Rrj1puJ/NzlpEt6XOL2nabQ51Gt4jx JLtg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.162.73 with SMTP id xy9mr986342pab.172.1381062287664; Sun, 06 Oct 2013 05:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.69.8.5 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:24:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131004013949.0d62ec70@elandnews.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131004013949.0d62ec70@elandnews.com> Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:24:47 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: S Moonesamy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bacc3ca11aadf04e8119f08 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Strong criticism (was: ietf networking research) X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 12:24:49 -0000 --047d7bacc3ca11aadf04e8119f08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 10:41 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Aaron, > At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote: > >> Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough question - >> how to identify work that suits IETF. Without collaborating with experts >> who already have sufficient experience @IETF, I personally don't think the >> 'pure' researchers have much clue about it. >> > IMHO, every thing needs research, without research the IETF will fail, > > I received some private feedback. I suggest that you use it in your > initiative as it might be a more value there. > > It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than > research problems in the IETF. The comment mentioned that it was still > useful to go to the IETF. It was also mentioned that the direct and > negative feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. Note > that the students attending the IETF for the first time get a little scared > because of this. I think that the issue is more about how to handle the > strong criticism which is unlike what may be experienced at a research > conference. > Student may be scared because some people in IETF are not polite within discussions, I have seen many within my silent watch and now still see it when my remote participation, but hopefully when f2f participate others will be scared to face me :-) So student should be encouraged by their mentors or WG Chair, > > It was mentioned that the time and effort for actively working in the IETF > does often not help directly for a PhD thesis. Oddly enough, the people > got a very positive impression of the IETF and found it more useful to talk > to people at the IETF than people at research conferences. > It is more important to test the IETF and see if it is delivering real work/service to community, if the community are the majority and only few are participating in IETF there will be no success. Diversity is about bring more people in the IETF and in the meetings to speak/participate not just watch. > > Is it the strong criticism which brings input and good ideas? > I think it is the reasonable work criticism (not criticising persons or inputs, which is bad still practiced in IETF) only that makes value, and if management or any participant does like work-criticism then the works may not develop or update. We need more comments on I-Ds, we only get few within the LCs, that means still the IETF is not functioning the way it should be just because less diversity, which I beleive we will fix in these efforts here. AB --047d7bacc3ca11aadf04e8119f08 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Oct 4, 2013 at 10:41 AM, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com><= /span> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
At 02:04 26-09-2013, Aaron Yi DING wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion. IMO, it is a good yet very tough question - how= to identify work that suits IETF. Without collaborating with experts who a= lready have sufficient experience @IETF, I personally don't think the &= #39;pure' researchers have much clue about it.
=A0
IMHO, every thing=A0needs rese= arch, without research the IETF=A0will fail,=A0

I received some private feedback. =A0I suggest that you use it in your init= iative as it might be a more value there.

It was mentioned that there are usually more engineering problems than rese= arch problems in the IETF. =A0The comment mentioned that it was still usefu= l to go to the IETF. =A0It was also mentioned that the direct and negative = feedback fosters discussion on open engineering questions. =A0Note that the= students attending the IETF for the first time get a little scared because= of this. =A0I think that the issue is more about how to handle the strong = criticism which is unlike what may be experienced at a research conference.=
=A0
Student may be scared because some people i= n IETF are not polite within discussions, I have seen many within my silent= watch and now still see it when my remote participation, but hopefully whe= n f2f participate others will be scared to face me :-)
So student should be encouraged by their mentors or WG Chair,
=A0

It was mentioned that the time and effort for actively working in the IETF = does often not help directly for a PhD thesis. =A0Oddly enough, the people = got a very positive impression of the IETF and found it more useful to talk= to people at the IETF than people at research conferences.
=A0
It is more important to test the IETF and s= ee if it is delivering real work/service to community, if the community are= the majority and only few are participating in IETF there will be no succe= ss. Diversity is about bring more people in the IETF and in the meetings to= speak/participate not just watch.

Is it the strong criticism which brings input and good ideas?
=A0
I think it is the reasonable work criticism (not crit= icising persons or inputs, which is bad still practiced in IETF)=A0only tha= t makes value, and if management or any participant does like work-criticis= m then the works may not develop or update. We need more comments on I-Ds, = we only get few within the LCs, that means still the IETF is not functionin= g the way it should be just because less diversity, which I beleive we will= fix in these efforts here.
=A0
AB
--047d7bacc3ca11aadf04e8119f08-- From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Mon Oct 7 05:58:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EFB21E81B1; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 05:58:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ntk2LA1WcnAq; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 05:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B37221E8113; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 05:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd51.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd51.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.155]) by mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97CvtfG019422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:57:58 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com r97CvtfG019422 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1381150678; bh=Pq3iCfSH5yauUS5Mwv7Dbh2uHg0=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=Oaa/bNCcC2TcqLwC3UMVabUX5H5Qz6al2DQYoy7qrjg4rBUqHlqXQBqXcTAGGhqVJ oaDrSTBAtP204daJv+b8tDYBdGiU7OSs0PjFAN+1OH+19NLY/MsnpBv5OHAKSjL4B/ 1tkqKz00QDxEOeKoXANBqKsk7Qssihe+Ob6Mjv90= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com r97CvtfG019422 Received: from mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.21]) by maildlpprd51.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:57:42 -0400 Received: from mxhub05.corp.emc.com (mxhub05.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.202]) by mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97CvgFE032671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:57:42 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.46]) by mxhub05.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.202]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:57:42 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: "diversity-dt@ietf.org" , "diversity@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:57:41 -0400 Thread-Topic: Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DWu7eCO5VZ2wKSE2tPpCHbROr2Q== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1CEMX15Acorpemcc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com X-EMM-GWVC: 1 X-EMM-McAfeeVC: 1 X-RSA-Classifications: public Subject: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:58:05 -0000 --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1CEMX15Acorpemcc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I had the opportunity to assist ISOC and represent women in the IETF at the= Grace Hopper Celebration last week. This is a conference and recruiting f= air for women in Computer Science. After talking to numerous young women = in school and some professors there seemed to be some unique opportunities = we could work with to get them involved in IETF work before they graduate. Many working groups have opportunities for software development. Students = have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a site that en= abled easy access for students to identify coding opportunities that could = potentially live on beyond their project, we may get valuable input. A lis= ting of working groups matched with existing implementations or a listing o= f what is needed would make it easier for students to see where they could = help (jumping into something brand new to them). We could make this compel= ling for them and get interoperability testing feedback as a great way to h= ave them be able to provide meaningful comments on list. Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementations, but this do= es not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work to the growing op= en source movement. I think we could greatly benefit from showing that rel= ationship. For some students, they may be able to participate in interoper= ability testing. This could be great for job interviews where they can say= they tested their open source code against an implementation from X compan= y and provided solid feedback to the working group to improve the interoper= ability of the protocol in development. Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), we a= re not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they could h= elp. A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpful. Work= ing groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. Student= s could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them most. I= talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her students.= Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get them used= to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are pro= viding solid contributions. Some people shy away from contributing otherwi= se. Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for worki= ng groups and development opportunities? Thanks, Kathleen --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1CEMX15Acorpemcc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

 

I had t= he opportunity to assist ISOC and represent women in the IETF at the Grace = Hopper Celebration last week.  This is a conference and recruiting fai= r for women in Computer Science.   After talking to numerous youn= g women in school and some professors there seemed to be some unique opport= unities we could work with to get them involved in IETF work before they gr= aduate.

 

Many working groups have opportunities for software development.&= nbsp; Students have projects where they need to code.  If we were to c= reate a site that enabled easy access for students to identify coding oppor= tunities that could potentially live on beyond their project, we may get va= luable input.  A listing of working groups matched with existing imple= mentations or a listing of what is needed would make it easier for students= to see where they could help (jumping into something brand new to them).&n= bsp; We could make this compelling for them and get interoperability testin= g feedback as a great way to have them be able to provide meaningful commen= ts on list. 

 

=

Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track impleme= ntations, but this does not show the obvious connection of IETF standards w= ork to the growing open source movement.  I think we could greatly ben= efit from showing that relationship.  For some students, they may be a= ble to participate in interoperability testing.  This could be great f= or job interviews where they can say they tested their open source code aga= inst an implementation from X company and provided solid feedback to the wo= rking group to improve the interoperability of the protocol in development.=

 

Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), w= e are not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they coul= d help.  A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpfu= l.  Working groups could also identify opportunities where they want h= elp.  Students could then look at each of those WGs and see what inter= ests them most.  I talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing = this with her students.  Making this easier could really expand this i= nvolvement and get them used to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets= them feel like they are providing solid contributions.  Some people s= hy away from contributing otherwise.

 

Is this something we think could be = set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunit= ies?

 

 

Thanks,

Kathleen

= --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1CEMX15Acorpemcc_-- From vinayakh@gmail.com Mon Oct 7 06:34:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A4911E80E4; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:34:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.495, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K3tmyZRvlR78; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30D711E80E2; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id v10so7209349pde.10 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 06:34:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=MpJNtIHC13dDLfL8PEH6oIGYoR96XCqgffKdDCZcYu0=; b=DKpNEJu6fy4pCFEUXxBFqGz9dMti58wqS1AzxPiZB59fAUyKxWc/Xt1JnBSx0pVSuK y3QrHWSV94dy4/SoCKPEL5Yr0cbVFNh+pS7jUh502AtgsmaksKBUIffe6zb1WVN56vsZ NcdmegBPsJzQ+GQHnoccWY8D9OctryzazIU+PSQ9pFo1ixp/KUUE6VczRdp0FrgHSFX8 Ihe1mWcdbT9HWiogKdvRBtycAIlGEdjAuCLsO00lZTVFI0yVH8v7/MqHbdzGa96TzQj1 mXFmecY6naZhelHOmTBWPadTI2TlHQXxUaEk4R0WWpWz0G6ea24MWe7CIEGwIm9qhPWZ ArZQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.225.42 with SMTP id rh10mr3106725pbc.176.1381152867430; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 06:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.90.39 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:34:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 19:04:27 +0530 Message-ID: From: Vinayak Hegde To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff243c10b394704e826b6e3 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:34:28 -0000 --e89a8ff243c10b394704e826b6e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen < kathleen.moriarty@emc.com> wrote: [snipped] > Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementations, but this > does not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work to the growing > open source movement. I think we could greatly benefit from showing that > relationship. For some students, they may be able to participate in > interoperability testing. This could be great for job interviews where > they can say they tested their open source code against an implementation > from X company and provided solid feedback to the working group to improve > the interoperability of the protocol in development.**** > > ** ** > > Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), we > are not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they could > help. A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpful. > Working groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. > Students could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them > most. I talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her > students. Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get > them used to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like > they are providing solid contributions. Some people shy away from > contributing otherwise.**** > > ** ** > > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for > working groups and development opportunities? > I think this is a great idea. I think there are a number of groups that are testing implementations for eg. http/2.0 https://github.com/http2 and https://github.com/molnarg/node-http2 Is there some sort of a wiki which people can join and update it would be really useful not only to women but all people who are interested in participating in the IETF. Another suggestion would be to have a column with email addresses of people who are happy to hand-hold others to contribute code to implementations or help test on varied platforms. That would really help. It would be like GSoC (without the funding)( https://developers.google.com/open-source/soc/) -- Vinayak --e89a8ff243c10b394704e826b6e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen <kathleen.moriarty@= emc.com> wrote:
[snipped]

Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implement= ations, but this does not show the obvious connection of IETF standards wor= k to the growing open source movement.=A0 I think we could greatly benefit = from showing that relationship.=A0 For some students, they may be able to p= articipate in interoperability testing.=A0 This could be great for job inte= rviews where they can say they tested their open source code against an imp= lementation from X company and provided solid feedback to the working group= to improve the interoperability of the protocol in development.<= /u>

=A0

Since we are just tracking= what has been done (and on numerous sites), we are not making it easy for = students to find opportunities where they could help.=A0 A match-up web sit= e pulling this all together could be helpful.=A0 Working groups could also = identify opportunities where they want help.=A0 Students could then look at= each of those WGs and see what interests them most.=A0 I talked to a profe= ssor in Chili who may start doing this with her students. =A0Making this ea= sier could really expand this involvement and get them used to talking on m= ailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are providing solid con= tributions.=A0 Some people shy away from contributing otherwise.<= /u>

=A0

Is this something we think= could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development = opportunities?


I think = this is a great idea. I think there are a number of groups that are testing= implementations for eg. http/2.0
https://github.com/http2 and https://github.com/molnarg/nod= e-http2

Is there some sort of a wiki which people can= join and update it would be really useful not only to women but all people= who are interested in participating in the IETF. Another suggestion would = be to have a column with email addresses of people who are happy to hand-ho= ld others to contribute code to implementations or help test on varied plat= forms. That would really help. It would be like GSoC (without the funding)(= https://develope= rs.google.com/open-source/soc/)
=A0
-- Vinayak
--e89a8ff243c10b394704e826b6e3-- From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Mon Oct 7 06:45:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCD421E80AF; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:45:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JsGlQpIfDzeD; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CA421E80AD; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.38]) by mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97DivnX010700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 09:44:58 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com r97DivnX010700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1381153498; bh=MGFV/o2+uf7MbLdtN8oZfvqg7Gw=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=ic+265seifVuB/HrZlCBEG3xSBpbgB5qLaO7+m+cWUM6efry69e889JMMx/gx+lOS eYdVfGIPurcYusU8tuq83DU2R50sWADp7nkZZWwQfP57ehZnRuFb9/J+2oBu0rWRXR UGIdv2xlkNfIkQ6Se9SnS0VywAQFQlUxWqfF3iOc= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com r97DivnX010700 Received: from mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.21]) by maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:44:51 -0700 Received: from mxhub07.corp.emc.com (mxhub07.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.204]) by mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97DipvZ003981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 09:44:51 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.46]) by mxhub07.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.204]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 09:44:51 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: Vinayak Hegde , "Henrik Levkowetz (henrik@levkowetz.com)" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 09:44:50 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DYfVv4uFsjL/dRlW6uqicA7HIcwAATptA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1E2MX15Acorpemcc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com X-EMM-GWVC: 1 X-EMM-McAfeeVC: 1 X-RSA-Classifications: public Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:45:20 -0000 --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1E2MX15Acorpemcc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would the tools wiki be the right place and then we figure out how to get i= t promoted to universities and open source communities? I am not sure what= the right answer is, but copying Henrik in case that is a good answer. Thanks, Kathleen From: Vinayak Hegde [mailto:vinayakh@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:34 AM To: Moriarty, Kathleen Cc: diversity-dt@ietf.org; diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen > wrote: [snipped] Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementations, but this do= es not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work to the growing op= en source movement. I think we could greatly benefit from showing that rel= ationship. For some students, they may be able to participate in interoper= ability testing. This could be great for job interviews where they can say= they tested their open source code against an implementation from X compan= y and provided solid feedback to the working group to improve the interoper= ability of the protocol in development. Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), we a= re not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they could h= elp. A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpful. Work= ing groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. Student= s could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them most. I= talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her students.= Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get them used= to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are pro= viding solid contributions. Some people shy away from contributing otherwi= se. Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for worki= ng groups and development opportunities? I think this is a great idea. I think there are a number of groups that are= testing implementations for eg. http/2.0 https://github.com/http2 and https://github.com/molnarg/node-http2 Is there some sort of a wiki which people can join and update it would be r= eally useful not only to women but all people who are interested in partici= pating in the IETF. Another suggestion would be to have a column with email= addresses of people who are happy to hand-hold others to contribute code t= o implementations or help test on varied platforms. That would really help.= It would be like GSoC (without the funding)(https://developers.google.com/= open-source/soc/) -- Vinayak --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1E2MX15Acorpemcc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Would the= tools wiki be the right place and then we figure out how to get it promote= d to universities and open source communities?  I am not sure what the= right answer is, but copying Henrik in case that is a good answer.

 

Thanks,

Kathleen

 <= /o:p>

From: Vinayak Hegde [mailto:vinayakh@gma= il.com]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Mor= iarty, Kathleen
Cc: diversity-dt@ietf.org; diversity@ietf.org
= Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities=

 

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen <kathleen.moriarty@emc.com= > wrote:

[snipped]

=

Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementat= ions, but this does not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work = to the growing open source movement.  I think we could greatly benefit= from showing that relationship.  For some students, they may be able = to participate in interoperability testing.  This could be great for j= ob interviews where they can say they tested their open source code against= an implementation from X company and provided solid feedback to the workin= g group to improve the interoperability of the protocol in development.

 

Since we are just tracking wh= at has been done (and on numerous sites), we are not making it easy for stu= dents to find opportunities where they could help.  A match-up web sit= e pulling this all together could be helpful.  Working groups could al= so identify opportunities where they want help.  Students could then l= ook at each of those WGs and see what interests them most.  I talked t= o a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her students.  Ma= king this easier could really expand this involvement and get them used to = talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are providi= ng solid contributions.  Some people shy away from contributing otherw= ise.

 

Is this something w= e think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and devel= opment opportunities?

 

I think this is a great idea. I think there are a num= ber of groups that are testing implementations for eg. http/2.0
https://github.com/http2 and https://github.com/molnarg/node-http2=

Is there some sort of a = wiki which people can join and update it would be really useful not only to= women but all people who are interested in participating in the IETF. Anot= her suggestion would be to have a column with email addresses of people who= are happy to hand-hold others to contribute code to implementations or hel= p test on varied platforms. That would really help. It would be like GSoC (= without the funding)(https://developers.google.com/open-source/soc/)

 

-- Vinayak

= --_000_F5063677821E3B4F81ACFB7905573F24049E8BC1E2MX15Acorpemcc_-- From arturo.servin@gmail.com Mon Oct 7 06:55:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBC821E80A5; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lAUVnw6Wfrz8; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-x22e.google.com (mail-qe0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D3B11E80D9; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f46.google.com with SMTP id x7so5274348qeu.33 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=q+0Z9wqd1L4K1CEv07Mdxa7MXsupCNWNWCXovINKbZ0=; b=iE5mWa9Fj6fY6wzRsVw43/he6gVY/tsPsnb379HhaUy/Wok5vLtrvrV6vWCtQa8mP6 W4NYF1S72QzBbhSFM37HGpaa3CqTpC6lqTui4hBuVgyu6R9n6kVFbkODC949sDREDtND lfbHBB9VRfOwldTDPT+vSajXtDrtAH/Z9dFkvFq90UiP89eLF4p0KXBUC+zHXHSukqmn 4rNHZmAbgMluXyfCR7zE397EFNtSm5tXuu+CdBcb9qJfJ1wAH5JNKbaf9QAUWuEmWVmz xVJorBkPUkuUpBXk4fAYWzI1JxUn6tKGbj/FtJR+hgLI5fMclsdSs+jOBdabHexHT0jU wczA== X-Received: by 10.224.60.199 with SMTP id q7mr38121323qah.80.1381154148568; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2001:13c7:7001:7000:1cf4:d209:73b5:4129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h2sm54335782qev.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2013 06:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:55:49 -0200 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080508060109050801040507" Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:55:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080508060109050801040507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think is a great idea. There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. Regards, as On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: > > Hello, > > > > > > > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for > working groups and development opportunities? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Kathleen > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity-dt mailing list > diversity-dt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt --------------080508060109050801040507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    I think is a great idea.

    There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests.


Regards,
as
   
On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:

Hello,

 

<snip>

 

Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunities?

 

 

Thanks,

Kathleen



_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt

--------------080508060109050801040507-- From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Mon Oct 7 06:58:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C865221E8099; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id scRxndsp6h8Q; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E6E21F9E7C; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41EBBE51; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iOwN9btjEI-x; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DA1FBE50; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:25 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5252BE01.1050302@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:58:25 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arturo Servin , "Moriarty, Kathleen" References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:58:35 -0000 And suck in drafts with an RFC 6982 implementation status section too. If lots of drafts had those, then a tools based solution might be simple enough. S. On 10/07/2013 02:55 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > I think is a great idea. > > There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it > (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the > IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. > > > Regards, > as > > On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for >> working groups and development opportunities? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kathleen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity-dt mailing list >> diversity-dt@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt > > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Oct 7 07:11:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F96421F9EB0; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.533 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.533 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOi3z+FbKa20; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4806621E8099; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r97EB2Te006424; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:11:02 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r97EAvQw006358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:10:58 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Stephen Farrell'" , "'Arturo Servin'" , "'Moriarty, Kathleen'" References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> <5252BE01.1050302@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <5252BE01.1050302@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:10:57 +0100 Message-ID: <026201cec367$0be61940$23b24bc0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFoCmtFLgWLGIJRvgp9PUoqXyCwUQHiWWrKAf8wZ0yal6wPAA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org, diversity-dt@ietf.org, 'Yaron Sheffer' Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:11:25 -0000 Yaron [added to this thread] and I had been considering setting up a wiki for tracking 6982 implementation status details. It might be less confusing to the world in general if we could combine the activities. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: diversity-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:diversity-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Stephen Farrell > Sent: 07 October 2013 14:58 > To: Arturo Servin; Moriarty, Kathleen > Cc: diversity@ietf.org; diversity-dt@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities > > > And suck in drafts with an RFC 6982 implementation status > section too. If lots of drafts had those, then a tools > based solution might be simple enough. > > S. > > On 10/07/2013 02:55 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > > > I think is a great idea. > > > > There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it > > (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the > > IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. > > > > > > Regards, > > as > > > > On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for > >> working groups and development opportunities? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Kathleen > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> diversity-dt mailing list > >> diversity-dt@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > diversity mailing list > > diversity@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From carlos@lacnic.net Mon Oct 7 07:02:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5E411E80E4; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:02:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESCDDiaKW07h; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF05511E80D9; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonaire.local (unknown [190.113.162.51]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3E630844D; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 12:02:07 -0200 (UYST) Message-ID: <5252BEF5.4000501@lacnic.net> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:02:29 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arturo Servin References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000905060101070408050709" X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:34:30 -0700 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:02:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000905060101070408050709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be a huge motivator for students. regards ~C. On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > I think is a great idea. > > There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it > (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in > the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. > > > Regards, > as > > On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for >> working groups and development opportunities? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kathleen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity-dt mailing list >> diversity-dt@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity-dt mailing list > diversity-dt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt --------------000905060101070408050709 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be a huge motivator for students.

regards

~C.


On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote:

    I think is a great idea.

    There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests.


Regards,
as
   
On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:

Hello,

 

<snip>

 

Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunities?

 

 

Thanks,

Kathleen



_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt




_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt

--------------000905060101070408050709-- From carlosm3011@gmail.com Mon Oct 7 07:07:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6086F21F9ECE; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:07:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VC1O9vHGrL6p; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-x231.google.com (mail-yh0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D39221F9ED1; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f49.google.com with SMTP id a41so795600yho.22 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:07:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=Q/atbGb7A1AS/C0WBKDjKDyXetj/Xl03F/0pS2zjORg=; b=lwyA8MbJEArmFDfwvtgjoVLImDeUpQx5NSTAA5KRJ00bXvbyCfmFw7dipriVhYmEde K9zhm9h7GDDIPaPYE3YI9vSMsQ2u3KH16awxARdB7uNKM4Yrut/1q9PUOL4AWxQidyj6 383bk8r19nNaC/PPjLpZBKH/ikMzUniubH1StxGGNNzPo2TlFyhaTqLzjpHBgQNDnAZj AR/Z7UJzmM2e0Xd14KtIASmR1T5MFSSruHraBpXOgO1VEieQJKUeLqYqe1/YWzLcm5a9 Gr9mNwoaZ2RSGP71VXj9F0z2bp6es8895vZqorSJlOSBE4Ln/Z1hX/p3m2N090yCQz0m X9Sw== X-Received: by 10.236.38.162 with SMTP id a22mr26065399yhb.30.1381154859781; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonaire.local ([190.113.162.51]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u52sm43662816yhg.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5252C027.8080702@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:07:35 -0300 From: "Carlos M. martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000008090404080403070306" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:34:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:07:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000008090404080403070306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be a huge motivator for students. regards ~C. On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > I think is a great idea. > > There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it > (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in > the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. > > > Regards, > as > > On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for >> working groups and development opportunities? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kathleen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity-dt mailing list >> diversity-dt@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity-dt mailing list > diversity-dt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt --------------000008090404080403070306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be a huge motivator for students.

regards

~C.


On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote:

    I think is a great idea.

    There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests.


Regards,
as
   
On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:

Hello,

 

<snip>

 

Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunities?

 

 

Thanks,

Kathleen



_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt




_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt

--------------000008090404080403070306-- From yaronf.ietf@gmail.com Mon Oct 7 07:25:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DB721E818D; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:25:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jFvsJ+-prEuq; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-x22f.google.com (mail-ee0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c00::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5E021E81AA; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ee0-f47.google.com with SMTP id d49so3310332eek.34 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:25:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i93g+5HrTDNaRfTw10is4r8nPe1GRhqvwFXFHUoN8+8=; b=EnLPd802x6Sc5iYNqJRVKkpoip0R5CWWx05XOShTYSsc9YVdjXlseU1UJQogsaafhV RXwRROjF+qhUoDtR0wf1ppI2erC313tqyuh4f/juk72tYcYsbkX6F85l6JLb4JJSY2ws kS+36E2Qq+lcssEMGjldyyC2zlFmMy3SyNoJuH+TFSv/2oc9l10CZm9mfMi+YwbTJiW7 uzj5N5aziW8JDUM1fo/sILe8WzER0k+xTfP5r/Wx5yCoukNMum5gUIaCi3Djbq5qkSmq UcqULsFq0e81I+uN4BQ1glL5MjFwNTMeKJnUBH/ijlTENbLEoGNVw97rxLV4Xaamnfme IYUg== X-Received: by 10.14.94.195 with SMTP id n43mr42509eef.93.1381155921771; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.2] (93-172-79-110.bb.netvision.net.il. [93.172.79.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id h52sm63996623eez.3.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5252C44E.4020401@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:25:18 +0300 From: Yaron Sheffer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Stephen Farrell' , 'Arturo Servin' , "'Moriarty, Kathleen'" References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> <5252BE01.1050302@cs.tcd.ie> <026201cec367$0be61940$23b24bc0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <026201cec367$0be61940$23b24bc0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 07:34:30 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, diversity-dt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:25:35 -0000 Sorry for coming into this discussion out of context. But actually the RFC 6982 wiki page is already up, see the "Soliciting Implementation Feedback" section of the WG Chairs wiki [1], or a direct link [2]. Thanks, Yaron [1] http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/WikiStart [2] http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/RunningCode On 10/07/2013 05:10 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Yaron [added to this thread] and I had been considering setting up a wiki for > tracking 6982 implementation status details. > > It might be less confusing to the world in general if we could combine the > activities. > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: diversity-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:diversity-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Stephen Farrell >> Sent: 07 October 2013 14:58 >> To: Arturo Servin; Moriarty, Kathleen >> Cc: diversity@ietf.org; diversity-dt@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities >> >> >> And suck in drafts with an RFC 6982 implementation status >> section too. If lots of drafts had those, then a tools >> based solution might be simple enough. >> >> S. >> >> On 10/07/2013 02:55 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >>> >>> I think is a great idea. >>> >>> There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it >>> (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the >>> IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> as >>> >>> On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for >>>> working groups and development opportunities? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Kathleen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> diversity-dt mailing list >>>> diversity-dt@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> diversity mailing list >>> diversity@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Mon Oct 7 07:36:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B2321E80AF; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:36:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A9JVPj6ciDBg; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8760E21F9FE7; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 07:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.158]) by mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97EaFHe015692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:36:16 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com r97EaFHe015692 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1381156577; bh=2r4dkYbSzcXeU6TWCwQIt7eh4YU=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=CAIZt/zRuj4Hzwwg88Cou1wgNZgSjAJ/gdhfncVj85WeEVeQPGdunzKSEzQMTIrCs cvhnHOM8+rdxBqv1wBREN6FE3av0Ga47nga08ukHvm6ltUdpmaWok3aGIX01LiSe8r AtoYg3pC+N6hZdluplKmrDEERtu6qP/j0M+VRFxI= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com r97EaFHe015692 Received: from mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.24]) by maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:36:03 -0400 Received: from mxhub17.corp.emc.com (mxhub17.corp.emc.com [10.254.93.46]) by mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97Ea2X7008048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:36:02 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.46]) by mxhub17.corp.emc.com ([10.254.93.46]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:36:02 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: Yaron Sheffer , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Stephen Farrell'" , "'Arturo Servin'" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:36:00 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DaRE3sg0ougxQSSGywUa2w28LWAAAT/Hw Message-ID: References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> <5252BE01.1050302@cs.tcd.ie> <026201cec367$0be61940$23b24bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <5252C44E.4020401@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5252C44E.4020401@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com X-EMM-GWVC: 1 X-RSA-Classifications: public X-EMM-McAfeeVC: 1 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:36:52 -0000 Thanks, Yaron! Here is my initial message that folks are proposing get combined with the w= ork you and Adrian are doing (which makes perfect sense). ---- I had the opportunity to assist ISOC and represent women in the IETF at the= Grace Hopper Celebration last week. This is a conference and recruiting f= air for women in Computer Science. After talking to numerous young women = in school and some professors there seemed to be some unique opportunities = we could work with to get them involved in IETF work before they graduate. Many working groups have opportunities for software development. Students = have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a site that en= abled easy access for students to identify coding opportunities that could = potentially live on beyond their project, we may get valuable input. A lis= ting of working groups matched with existing implementations or a listing o= f what is needed would make it easier for students to see where they could = help (jumping into something brand new to them). We could make this compel= ling for them and get interoperability testing feedback as a great way to h= ave them be able to provide meaningful comments on list. =20 Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementations, but this do= es not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work to the growing op= en source movement. I think we could greatly benefit from showing that rel= ationship. For some students, they may be able to participate in interoper= ability testing. This could be great for job interviews where they can say= they tested their open source code against an implementation from X compan= y and provided solid feedback to the working group to improve the interoper= ability of the protocol in development. Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), we a= re not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they could h= elp. A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpful. Work= ing groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. Student= s could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them most. I= talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her students.= Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get them used= to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are pro= viding solid contributions. Some people shy away from contributing otherwi= se. Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for worki= ng groups and development opportunities? Thanks, Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Yaron Sheffer [mailto:yaronf.ietf@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 10:25 AM To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Stephen Farrell'; 'Arturo Servin'; Moriarty, Kath= leen Cc: diversity@ietf.org; diversity-dt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities Sorry for coming into this discussion out of context. But actually the RFC = 6982 wiki page is already up, see the "Soliciting Implementation Feedback" = section of the WG Chairs wiki [1], or a direct link [2]. Thanks, Yaron [1] http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/WikiStart [2] http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/RunningCode On 10/07/2013 05:10 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Yaron [added to this thread] and I had been considering setting up a=20 > wiki for tracking 6982 implementation status details. > > It might be less confusing to the world in general if we could combine=20 > the activities. > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: diversity-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:diversity-bounces@ietf.org]=20 >> On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell >> Sent: 07 October 2013 14:58 >> To: Arturo Servin; Moriarty, Kathleen >> Cc: diversity@ietf.org; diversity-dt@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities >> >> >> And suck in drafts with an RFC 6982 implementation status section=20 >> too. If lots of drafts had those, then a tools based solution might=20 >> be simple enough. >> >> S. >> >> On 10/07/2013 02:55 PM, Arturo Servin wrote: >>> >>> I think is a great idea. >>> >>> There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it=20 >>> (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in=20 >>> the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests= . >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> as >>> >>> On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up=20 >>>> for working groups and development opportunities? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Kathleen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> diversity-dt mailing list >>>> diversity-dt@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> diversity mailing list >>> diversity@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From eburger@standardstrack.com Mon Oct 7 08:34:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724AD21E8087; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:34:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GHsIYAZB5eDg; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [74.124.215.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED9821E80AB; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-74-194.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.74.194]:59721 helo=[192.168.15.140]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VTCox-00064h-SF; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:34:14 -0700 From: Eric Burger Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D23B49E5-394B-40A0-A584-D3B83A2FD74F"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: <9493DF51-0200-48C5-8FC2-224C796539AC@standardstrack.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 11:34:07 -0400 References: <5252BD65.1090004@gmail.com> <5252C027.8080702@gmail.com> To: diversity@ietf.org, diversity-dt@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5252C027.8080702@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: biz104.inmotionhosting.com: authenticated_id: eburger+standardstrack.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [Diversity] [Diversity-dt] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 15:34:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D23B49E5-394B-40A0-A584-D3B83A2FD74F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_795ECCC6-F693-4C4B-954F-A9BB99C172DC" --Apple-Mail=_795ECCC6-F693-4C4B-954F-A9BB99C172DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 This is a great idea. One thing that would really help is to tie in not = only the work that needs to be done, but pointers to organizations = willing to fund the work as well. You can maybe get an undergraduate to = do a project for free, but then the scope of the project has to be = microscopic. To get a grad student to work on a project or to get an = undergraduate's attention for more than a week requires some level of = support. On Oct 7, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Carlos M. martinez = wrote: > A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related = projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting = interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be = a huge motivator for students. >=20 > regards >=20 > ~C. >=20 >=20 > On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >>=20 >> I think is a great idea. >>=20 >> There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it = (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the = IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests. >>=20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> as >> =20 >> On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: >>> Hello, >>> =20 >> >>> =20 >>> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up = for working groups and development opportunities? >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Thanks, >>> Kathleen >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> diversity-dt mailing list >>> diversity-dt@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity-dt mailing list >> diversity-dt@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --Apple-Mail=_795ECCC6-F693-4C4B-954F-A9BB99C172DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 This is a great idea. One thing that would really help is to tie in not only the work that needs to be done, but pointers to organizations willing to fund the work as well. You can maybe get an undergraduate to do a project for free, but then the scope of the project has to be microscopic. To get a grad student to work on a project or to get an undergraduate's attention for more than a week requires some level of support.

On Oct 7, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Carlos M. martinez <carlosm3011@gmail.com> wrote:

A total +1. In fact, I've been proposing for some years IPv6-related projects for CS undergrads, and I usually have a hard time getting interested students. Having projects listed in an IETF web page would be a huge motivator for students.

regards

~C.


On 10/7/13 10:55 AM, Arturo Servin wrote:

    I think is a great idea.

    There are various ways that occurs to me in how to implement it (they could be all of them), a special wiki is one, a new section in the IETF page, and links from the WG pages to the developments requests.


Regards,
as
   
On 10/7/13 10:57 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:

Hello,

 

<snip>

 

Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunities?

 

 

Thanks,

Kathleen



_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt




_______________________________________________
diversity-dt mailing list
diversity-dt@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity-dt

_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity

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Mon Oct 7 08:54:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7713421E809A; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:54:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.936, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d5Pi0FzIEI9l; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.netapp.com (mx11.netapp.com [216.240.18.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A037121E81BC; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1051,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="57195501" Received: from vmwexceht03-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.241]) by mx11-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 07 Oct 2013 08:52:38 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht03-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.241]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 08:52:37 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DWu7eCO5VZ2wKSE2tPpCHbROr2QAVPuMA Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:52:35 +0000 Message-ID: <858BA61B-6688-4E50-B8C9-FA02436FD8AB@netapp.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_73C8BF7A-4C08-4F65-A27C-A63D6672B9B7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 15:54:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_73C8BF7A-4C08-4F65-A27C-A63D6672B9B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On Oct 7, 2013, at 5:57, "Moriarty, Kathleen" = wrote: > Many working groups have opportunities for software development. = Students have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a = site that enabled easy access for students to identify coding = opportunities that could potentially live on beyond their project, we = may get valuable input. A listing of working groups matched with = existing implementations or a listing of what is needed would make it = easier for students to see where they could help (jumping into something = brand new to them). We could make this compelling for them and get = interoperability testing feedback as a great way to have them be able to = provide meaningful comments on list. this is very similar to what we had discussed for an IRTF/ISOC joint = program. Basically, a "summer of code"-style program where we support a = student over the summer in exchange for getting some RFC or ID content = converted into open source code. (I think ISOC Latin America was trying to pilot this during 2013, but I = have not heard back.) > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for = working groups and development opportunities? I think it's a great idea. When we discussed this in the past, we came = to the conclusion that it would need to be driven by folks (professors, = IETF participants) from the regions we'd be targeting with this program, = and not by the IETF/IRTF. Because these folks can reach out to the = students much more effectively. Lars --Apple-Mail=_73C8BF7A-4C08-4F65-A27C-A63D6672B9B7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUlLYxNZcnpRveo1xAQLZGgP/V0kd/Nh3zIKjxZmI/a81qyZd89WcTuL9 P9K2Ba0rJXX8irW+Ko9qrw526XrkFGdfVQQln5mic/pVozj14Wj9MbhkeocY3kVI bby9rW79Ew/c+wmmJBPcg2V6vgGDDHzlQdhEpI9oKrw7Z+mJuDEAY9gC95a5pCZv W4qRSP1k/7s= =j9tE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_73C8BF7A-4C08-4F65-A27C-A63D6672B9B7-- From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com Mon Oct 7 10:37:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3256411E810A; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:37:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id en9fxSWtY1Ey; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB58E11E8109; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.160]) by mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97Hb5pA014496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:37:05 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com r97Hb5pA014496 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1381167426; bh=+Tq+Y8uAgb/WPJYBzv47ERNxbGo=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=mSocl4GJFua7DDjIzh4czM+IprIC3DRuK9nI8AweAs4iWzw1v9KX8imU9CxQjmqjk t23HfoRsQcYLln7qBx97Lt2ddHsaQ3wCk3crDO3Qnw06z/z3uI/WXPyWHfC0OcADlU edKOvRuTybj8wTOCOyeZgMYunAQcQTDVIlI5xKrQ= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com r97Hb5pA014496 Received: from mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.20]) by maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:36:46 -0400 Received: from mxhub27.corp.emc.com (mxhub27.corp.emc.com [10.254.110.183]) by mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id r97HajhH014594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:36:45 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.46]) by mxhub27.corp.emc.com ([10.254.110.183]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:36:45 -0400 From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" To: "Eggert, Lars" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:36:44 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DWu7eCO5VZ2wKSE2tPpCHbROr2QAVPuMAAA6OhsA= Message-ID: References: <858BA61B-6688-4E50-B8C9-FA02436FD8AB@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: <858BA61B-6688-4E50-B8C9-FA02436FD8AB@netapp.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com X-EMM-GWVC: 1 X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:37:12 -0000 I'd like us to leverage social networking concepts so this can go farther i= n scope and let it take on a life of its own by providing a match up home..= . We could integrate all of the other great ideas that are related in a so= cial style to provide funding as Eric suggested, but allow for directed as = well non-directed opportunities. This might be used by a few universities at first, but could expand beyond = that once the site was available and people understood more of how the IETF= works - rough consensus and running code. Others may be interested in wo= rking with the IETF WGs or coding that otherwise would be unaware of this w= ork. =20 There was one student that came by who had heard of the IETF, but then comp= lained about IEEE standards thinking they were IETF documents. There is cl= early an awareness problem. I also spoke to other engineers that were ther= e recruiting, they also asked if their company was involved and for ways fo= r them to be involved. If we could provide a tool, then work with ISOC and others to reach student= s, that may get this off the ground. It is good to hear that there are rel= ated efforts that we can tie together to hit the various points and leverag= e the good outcomes of previous efforts. Thanks! Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Eggert, Lars [mailto:lars@netapp.com]=20 Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 11:53 AM To: Moriarty, Kathleen Cc: diversity-dt@ietf.org; diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities Hi, On Oct 7, 2013, at 5:57, "Moriarty, Kathleen" w= rote: > Many working groups have opportunities for software development. Student= s have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a site that = enabled easy access for students to identify coding opportunities that coul= d potentially live on beyond their project, we may get valuable input. A l= isting of working groups matched with existing implementations or a listing= of what is needed would make it easier for students to see where they coul= d help (jumping into something brand new to them). We could make this comp= elling for them and get interoperability testing feedback as a great way to= have them be able to provide meaningful comments on list. this is very similar to what we had discussed for an IRTF/ISOC joint progra= m. Basically, a "summer of code"-style program where we support a student o= ver the summer in exchange for getting some RFC or ID content converted int= o open source code. (I think ISOC Latin America was trying to pilot this during 2013, but I hav= e not heard back.) > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for wor= king groups and development opportunities? I think it's a great idea. When we discussed this in the past, we came to t= he conclusion that it would need to be driven by folks (professors, IETF pa= rticipants) from the regions we'd be targeting with this program, and not b= y the IETF/IRTF. Because these folks can reach out to the students much mor= e effectively. Lars From alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com Mon Oct 7 13:05:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5613321E81C3 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 67gwBYfpAx1l for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f179.google.com (mail-gg0-f179.google.com [209.85.161.179]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1515F21E80C3 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gg0-f179.google.com with SMTP id q1so1212827gge.24 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eQtSYIsDuYcDgQVTp6ydMGkle0JD2yjJp2YL2qhyQX0=; b=XOLyNNgg4oWAFNMw4Z9r6pmWbsFbe8M5jN8T1wEJqJmP+F/u07ykFLUsyBufRz18/C t4fMhw05ueLqBrWpWxNNkbrOf/g4FfhBWXzKUqsJ5z/VpcO6n+RlsZR4G84ZwsjiZ+uo CSVnMo8uSXxs9BJhEDe7SD3+sQyLn4VPnqR1a1hD0DA54VkVFhCFv121jm/Y3ZQkaty8 92ECI5SJ1WUdRxTrPavhXFF3n9Ihsc/YMmqZVBTRThGDrKOM1ZwGeYlOUEkbI7yUvxUM 7f9VKVsPsJai8g52ZiO5dxsAZMZIrGNmMo2MlidWgQKLvfWNv5R2Pqn76U3DI2r6MJab a3Tg== X-Received: by 10.236.13.3 with SMTP id a3mr27163930yha.21.1381176288353; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.105] ([186.95.120.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm46170183yhg.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2013 13:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52530CD8.4060904@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 15:04:48 -0430 From: Alejandro Acosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 20:05:11 -0000 Excellent idea + 1 On 07/10/13 08:27, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote: > Hello, > > I had the opportunity to assist ISOC and represent women in the IETF at the Grace Hopper Celebration last week. This is a conference and recruiting fair for women in Computer Science. After talking to numerous young women in school and some professors there seemed to be some unique opportunities we could work with to get them involved in IETF work before they graduate. > > Many working groups have opportunities for software development. Students have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a site that enabled easy access for students to identify coding opportunities that could potentially live on beyond their project, we may get valuable input. A listing of working groups matched with existing implementations or a listing of what is needed would make it easier for students to see where they could help (jumping into something brand new to them). We could make this compelling for them and get interoperability testing feedback as a great way to have them be able to provide meaningful comments on list. > > Right now, many of use non-IETF sites to track implementations, but this does not show the obvious connection of IETF standards work to the growing open source movement. I think we could greatly benefit from showing that relationship. For some students, they may be able to participate in interoperability testing. This could be great for job interviews where they can say they tested their open source code against an implementation from X company and provided solid feedback to the working group to improve the interoperability of the protocol in development. > > Since we are just tracking what has been done (and on numerous sites), we are not making it easy for students to find opportunities where they could help. A match-up web site pulling this all together could be helpful. Working groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. Students could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them most. I talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her students. Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get them used to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like they are providing solid contributions. Some people shy away from contributing otherwise. > > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunities? > > > Thanks, > Kathleen > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Mon Oct 7 16:29:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5AE721E811A; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:29:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07YZ0vFfnOaL; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577FC21E81CC; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:29:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.35]:57761) by ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]:25) with esmtp id 1VTKEq-0000P3-8h (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:29:20 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VTKEq-0000yg-KN (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:29:20 +0100 Received: from s218i40.wolfson.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.218.40]) by webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:29:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:29:20 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: ietf@ietf.org Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.4 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 23:29:29 -0000 Hello, Is there a pointer (maybe from IETF secretary)? The year with highest number of attendees - which one is that? The exact number of participants will be even better. Thanks, Aaron From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Mon Oct 7 17:03:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B6E21E80EC; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:03:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.745, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3w-RHjIaDTBi; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63EE21E80D0; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:03:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.33]:58343) by ppsw-42.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]:25) with esmtp id 1VTKll-00076w-6X (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:03:21 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-1b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VTKlk-000VZc-V4 (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:03:21 +0100 Received: from s218i40.wolfson.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.218.40]) by webmail.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:03:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:03:20 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: ietf@ietf.org Organization: Cambridge University In-Reply-To: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.4 Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 00:03:28 -0000 Thanks for the pointer from Ray Pelletier. It seems IETF-49 got the highest number - 2810. 2nd is IETF-46, 2379. Cheers, Aaron On 08.10.2013 00:29, Aaron Yi DING wrote: > Hello, > > Is there a pointer (maybe from IETF secretary)? The year with highest > number of attendees - which one is that? The exact number of > participants will be even better. > > Thanks, > Aaron From Ted.Lemon@nominum.com Mon Oct 7 18:09:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D7121E8102; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:09:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.573 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.573 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oQdJw4hSs1Y; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og110.obsmtp.com (exprod7og110.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1199B21E80EC; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell-too.nominum.com ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob110.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUlNbJUvLg0G2jY+VOg8JHUysezZ4Qfui@postini.com; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:08:55 PDT Received: from archivist.nominum.com (archivist.nominum.com [64.89.228.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4BA1B8237; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-01.win.nominum.com [64.89.228.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by archivist.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 848D6190061; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) Received: from [10.0.10.40] (192.168.1.10) by CAS-01.WIN.NOMINUM.COM (192.168.1.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:08:53 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1811\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 21:08:49 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> To: Aaron Yi DING X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1811) X-Originating-IP: [192.168.1.10] Cc: diversity@ietf.org, IETF Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:09:02 -0000 On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:29 PM, Aaron Yi DING = wrote: > Is there a pointer (maybe from IETF secretary)? The year with highest = number of attendees - which one is that? The exact number of = participants will be even better. Wasn't it in Berlin? ISTR that we had a remarkably good attendance. = If not, it would have been probably the IETF in San Jose, quite some = time ago. From adrian@olddog.co.uk Tue Oct 8 05:51:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E2F21E809C; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 05:51:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e9wEoOGhsOCT; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD0521E818B; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r98CpMct013078; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:51:22 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r98CpKAu013070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:51:21 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Joe Abley'" , "'Ted Lemon'" References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> <72C88D25-6668-4086-8E50-7AA21C549113@hopcount.ca> In-Reply-To: <72C88D25-6668-4086-8E50-7AA21C549113@hopcount.ca> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:51:20 +0100 Message-ID: <044d01cec425$1756c680$46045380$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGfUJYDc6tnLO82x8sm9+0ae0jrSAIMVeE4A4Rw30CaHSGkMA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: diversity@ietf.org, 'IETF' Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:51:44 -0000 Curiously these numbers do not match those at https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Abley > Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38 > To: Ted Lemon > Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF > Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants > > [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do > curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | \ > awk -v n=${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, ""); sub(/^.*\>/, ""); > print n, $0; }' > done > 73 1111 > 74 1332 > 75 1230 > 76 1249 > 77 1350 > 78 1304 > 79 1337 > 80 1317 > 81 1244 > 82 1051 > 83 1529 > 84 1356 > 85 1351 > 86 1223 > 87 1585 > [krill:~]% From jabley@hopcount.ca Mon Oct 7 18:37:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BE521E8117 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MIFCBZtX5qaZ for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x235.google.com (mail-pd0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5E621E815B for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f181.google.com with SMTP id g10so7910013pdj.40 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:37:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hopcount.ca; s=google; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Hi7d2jMoCTbZa+4G/4aSH2O6BKveKaNMMEWkqfyVNEg=; b=QLn8788DYLOxRbV/3se69oDYxr4VX5r597YhFEqhKTjHRKDLRr9CT4T3z4rGV5eJQx 9qajPI78Rch07ScKkyXMUG8L0O8cXWn74dL4jnHw8mjS2Eiw+XMLifULgtAJbi0ceYKL b4TliZvWYU0hy5RT9WLX4or4TrtdGqwBNt5BE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=Hi7d2jMoCTbZa+4G/4aSH2O6BKveKaNMMEWkqfyVNEg=; b=U4Q6o3cKYMcllZGdO6WrDsFWimJeZ7BP3rySNQ6igmuP8c3Uhy/0tNn9oGs1MeBPSo TZZ7+dShRtxirHl13eMGnkJ++qVh3C1LnJCgrtptFdIAqqPXII4LwGOk3/WNG/g+RThI q7rK3f5SPE6UVrmxYmiAB6MED4ZVOvG8DtXFb98pi3pxmXKmEpaAOMZgKsqILIeTY09h LRy9S4A2Sjc37x6gjMHWUuLPXtaMNcQ5aYhzRH+EBwS9XyA5TpOBOtTV2tuKQSqmUbyq usczJTs8fRyLjn08l67iguDwYSSZXW8GCYxKpvO/NNGnzBQbgCGk0GG3ZaQ7/oSqMaZE avig== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlvebR1lZ7KbOnd5jzThbI7GVxb3yyrUeRMqPz8WpI/0/8jKTZyCcS71WFJbDlS9fhG80m9 X-Received: by 10.68.162.5 with SMTP id xw5mr3788605pbb.71.1381196256116; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from static-219-138.meetings.nanog.org (static-219-138.meetings.nanog.org. [199.187.219.138]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id im2sm36221950pbd.31.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 18:37:33 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <72C88D25-6668-4086-8E50-7AA21C549113@hopcount.ca> References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> To: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 06:08:30 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Aaron Yi DING , IETF Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 01:37:45 -0000 On 2013-10-07, at 18:08, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Oct 7, 2013, at 7:29 PM, Aaron Yi DING = wrote: >> Is there a pointer (maybe from IETF secretary)? The year with highest = number of attendees - which one is that? The exact number of = participants will be even better. >=20 > Wasn't it in Berlin? ISTR that we had a remarkably good attendance. = If not, it would have been probably the IETF in San Jose, quite some = time ago. Attendance numbers for the last 14 meetings are trivially available from = the command-line (and figuring that out was about two minutes' work = following a search for "ietf 87 attendance"). Berlin was the best-attended meeting in that period. And also the = meeting with the most unexpectedly high ambient temperatures, although I = have no science to back up that claim, just recurring nightmares. Joe [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do=20 curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | \ awk -v n=3D${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, ""); = sub(/^.*\>/, ""); print n, $0; }' done 73 1111 74 1332 75 1230 76 1249 77 1350 78 1304 79 1337 80 1317 81 1244 82 1051 83 1529 84 1356 85 1351 86 1223 87 1585 [krill:~]%=20 From tony@att.com Mon Oct 7 20:43:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F9921E812A; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.645, BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52KmbJZPxnLB; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tlpi046.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (egssmtp01.att.com [144.160.112.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776BD21E8128; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by egssmtp01.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r983hTmI019866; Mon, 7 Oct 2013 22:43:29 -0500 Received: from [135.70.110.11] (vpn-135-70-110-11.vpn.swst.att.com[135.70.110.11]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20131008034327gw100q0g1oe> (Authid: tony); Tue, 8 Oct 2013 03:43:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.110.11] Message-ID: <52537F5F.8070706@att.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 23:43:27 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 06:08:30 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 03:43:37 -0000 On 10/7/2013 8:03 PM, Aaron Yi DING wrote: > Thanks for the pointer from Ray Pelletier. > > It seems IETF-49 got the highest number - 2810. > > 2nd is IETF-46, 2379. For those wondering where to see a list of attendees by meeting, see http://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html Tony Hansen From rlb@ipv.sx Tue Oct 8 06:07:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E381921E8098 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:07:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.811 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.811 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.165, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZuRYo2IUihi for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-f51.google.com (mail-oa0-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C62F21E81CB for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id h16so7404596oag.24 for ; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 06:06:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=i+8scrlyQhATE2EN7HvqWjRKnfZnAT7IxdSOuStbByQ=; b=Iz8yLAsUJgaixtK0s/LltutDEtYWUcsZ3tHWR75K3UQF6bErVH9aeE5+F8gO+cxh9w ckW2LXAFA7ahUTaFts4ANjNDXq7ugpMULuWabD1VEuxXByon9V2qpcVZRZw8RDXIxwtO cMlnymog2wsMcatUwAzWGkSXQRMUh/TXa8/qaYxRWgAdJf1lSnDHf2KcMqcYDvx1nHy+ 5HNcSoy41mCyYT3KMugDPWY46ayvx3Vbybdjpr97xiOCakzSME7QrGqRQT9tcq+uX3ej D+lQ/7r0uKHtE8hXfXX1PXWfIEAbTx0c69EBKIKipdHZpRcs9sZTLFhRrPwKuH0ogjow PzMw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlUu+qLMdVcWVBAE0erQVD4wsUUJgBQF9bntNcYDrO2M8ykjDruhQfAYCw+5AoEV0pwHY8r MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.68.135 with SMTP id w7mr1179810oet.9.1381237615473; Tue, 08 Oct 2013 06:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.101.10 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:06:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <044d01cec425$1756c680$46045380$@olddog.co.uk> References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> <72C88D25-6668-4086-8E50-7AA21C549113@hopcount.ca> <044d01cec425$1756c680$46045380$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:06:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134c4c26bc2e604e83a71cf X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 06:08:18 -0700 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, IETF , Joe Abley , Ted Lemon Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:07:15 -0000 --001a1134c4c26bc2e604e83a71cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Indeed, the number Joe was counting was the number who filled out a registration form. Counting those who actually paid their registration yields closer numbers. rbarnes$ for n in $(jot 15 73); do att=$(curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | grep -o ">Yes<" | wc -l); echo $n $att; done 73 969 74 1170 75 1102 76 1129 77 1242 78 1159 79 1144 80 1231 81 1127 82 948 83 1395 84 1199 85 1157 86 1115 87 1435 On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Curiously these numbers do not match those at > https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html > > Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance. > > Adrian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Joe > > Abley > > Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38 > > To: Ted Lemon > > Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF > > Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants > > > > [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do > > curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | \ > > awk -v n=${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, ""); > sub(/^.*\>/, ""); > > print n, $0; }' > > done > > 73 1111 > > 74 1332 > > 75 1230 > > 76 1249 > > 77 1350 > > 78 1304 > > 79 1337 > > 80 1317 > > 81 1244 > > 82 1051 > > 83 1529 > > 84 1356 > > 85 1351 > > 86 1223 > > 87 1585 > > [krill:~]% > > --001a1134c4c26bc2e604e83a71cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Indeed, the number Joe was counting was the number who fil= led out a registration form. =A0Counting those who actually paid their regi= stration yields closer numbers.

rbarnes$ for n in $= (jot 15 73); do =A0 =A0=A0
att=3D$(curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.= py" | grep -o ">Yes<" | wc -l);
echo $n = $att;=A0
done
73 969
74 1170
75 1102
76= 1129
77 1242
78 1159
79 1144
80 12= 31
81 1127
82 948
83 1395
84 1199
85 1157
86 1115
87 1435


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at= 8:51 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
Curiously these numbers do not match those a= t
https:= //www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html

Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance.

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> Abley
> Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38
> To: Ted Lemon
> Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF=
> Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants
>
> [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do
> curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/a= ttendance.py" | \
> =A0 awk -v n=3D${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/,= "");
sub(/^.*\>/, "");
> print n, $0; }'
> done
> 73 1111
> 74 1332
> 75 1230
> 76 1249
> 77 1350
> 78 1304
> 79 1337
> 80 1317
> 81 1244
> 82 1051
> 83 1529
> 84 1356
> 85 1351
> 86 1223
> 87 1585
> [krill:~]%


--001a1134c4c26bc2e604e83a71cf-- From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 06:51:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8301021E8088; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZG8feo1Dxq2E; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD05221E80A3; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:51:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.35]:38393) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.137]:25) with esmtp id 1VTXgj-0007aB-iF (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:51:01 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VTXgj-000TxX-LC (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:51:01 +0100 Received: from chesterfield.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.10.127]) by webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:51:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:51:01 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.4 Cc: diversity@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, jabley@hopcount.ca, ted.lemon@nominum.com Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:51:11 -0000 Hi Adrian, True, that also puzzled me a bit since the numbers do not match, registration and attendee - the registration number is in general higher than that of attendees. Cheers, Aaron On 08/10/13 13:51, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Curiously these numbers do not match those at > https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html > > Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance. > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Joe >> Abley >> Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38 >> To: Ted Lemon >> Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF >> Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants >> >> [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do >> curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | \ >> awk -v n=${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, ""); > sub(/^.*\>/, ""); >> print n, $0; }' >> done >> 73 1111 >> 74 1332 >> 75 1230 >> 76 1249 >> 77 1350 >> 78 1304 >> 79 1337 >> 80 1317 >> 81 1244 >> 82 1051 >> 83 1529 >> 84 1356 >> 85 1351 >> 86 1223 >> 87 1585 >> [krill:~]% > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 06:56:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E1521E8096; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:56:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9wkTxxmHK3T; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:212:8::e:f32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6078821E809F; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 06:56:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: not scanned (internal relaying) X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.9.35]:37922) by ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.136]:25) with esmtp id 1VTXlf-0002Zs-0o (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:56:07 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk) by webmail-2b.csi.cam.ac.uk with esmtp id 1VTXlf-000V07-64 (Exim 4.80_167-5a66dd3) (return-path ); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:56:07 +0100 Received: from chesterfield.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.10.127]) by webmail-2.hermes.cam.ac.uk with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:56:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: ad707 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:56:07 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: rlb@ipv.sx Organization: Cambridge University Message-ID: <023a67c04403e65508b32a0acf2a4e22@cam.ac.uk> X-Sender: Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.4 Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ietf@ietf.org, diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:56:13 -0000 The registration number may include remote participants while attendee number shows how many actually went on-site. Cheers, Aaron On 08/10/13 14:06, Richard Barnes wrote: > Indeed, the number Joe was counting was the number who filled out a > registration form. Counting those who actually paid their registration > yields closer numbers. > rbarnes$ for n in $(jot 15 73); do > att=$(curl -s > "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | grep -o > ">Yes<" | wc -l); > echo $n $att; > done > 73 969 > 74 1170 > 75 1102 > 76 1129 > 77 1242 > 78 1159 > 79 1144 > 80 1231 > 81 1127 > 82 948 > 83 1395 > 84 1199 > 85 1157 > 86 1115 > 87 1435 > > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Adrian Farrel > wrote: > > Curiously these numbers do not match those at > https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html > > Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance. > > Adrian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Joe > > Abley > > Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38 > > To: Ted Lemon > > Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF > > Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants > > > > [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do > > curl -s > "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | \ > > awk -v n=${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, > ""); > sub(/^.*\>/, ""); > > print n, $0; }' > > done > > 73 1111 > > 74 1332 > > 75 1230 > > 76 1249 > > 77 1350 > > 78 1304 > > 79 1337 > > 80 1317 > > 81 1244 > > 82 1051 > > 83 1529 > > 84 1356 > > 85 1351 > > 86 1223 > > 87 1585 > > [krill:~]% > From rpelletier@isoc.org Tue Oct 8 07:04:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716A611E81A3; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 07:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.481, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GYXg-hqxjh9p; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 07:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp118.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp118.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.118]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF1F11E8195; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 07:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp7.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 91D711B81B7; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 10:04:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp7.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id D74981B824E; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 10:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B7A1308A-0368-41BF-B21B-928617D6872E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 10:04:40 -0400 Message-Id: References: <4695b41878ea8459411ba325bb173fc1@cam.ac.uk> <72C88D25-6668-4086-8E50-7AA21C549113@hopcount.ca> <044d01cec425$1756c680$46045380$@olddog.co.uk> To: Richard Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , IETF , diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] year for highest number of IETF participants X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:04:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B7A1308A-0368-41BF-B21B-928617D6872E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 All; Prior to this Vancouver meeting in which Remote Participants will have = an opportunity to register, registrations did -not- include Remote = Participants. Attendees are those who showed up. Registrations are typically a much = higher number. Not all those who register attend. Ray IAD On Oct 8, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Richard Barnes wrote: > Indeed, the number Joe was counting was the number who filled out a = registration form. Counting those who actually paid their registration = yields closer numbers. >=20 > rbarnes$ for n in $(jot 15 73); do =20 > att=3D$(curl -s = "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | grep -o = ">Yes<" | wc -l); > echo $n $att;=20 > done > 73 969 > 74 1170 > 75 1102 > 76 1129 > 77 1242 > 78 1159 > 79 1144 > 80 1231 > 81 1127 > 82 948 > 83 1395 > 84 1199 > 85 1157 > 86 1115 > 87 1435 >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: > Curiously these numbers do not match those at > https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html >=20 > Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance. >=20 > Adrian >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Joe > > Abley > > Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38 > > To: Ted Lemon > > Cc: diversity@ietf.org; IETF > > Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants > > > > [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do > > curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | = \ > > awk -v n=3D${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ registrations:.*$/, = ""); > sub(/^.*\>/, ""); > > print n, $0; }' > > done > > 73 1111 > > 74 1332 > > 75 1230 > > 76 1249 > > 77 1350 > > 78 1304 > > 79 1337 > > 80 1317 > > 81 1244 > > 82 1051 > > 83 1529 > > 84 1356 > > 85 1351 > > 86 1223 > > 87 1585 > > [krill:~]% >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B7A1308A-0368-41BF-B21B-928617D6872E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:

Indeed, the number Joe was counting was the number who = filled out a registration form.  Counting those who actually paid = their registration yields closer = numbers.

rbarnes$ for n in $(jot 15 73); do =     
att=3D$(curl -s "https://= www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py" | grep -o = ">Yes<" | wc -l);
echo $n $att; 
done
73 969
74 1170
75 = 1102
76 1129
77 1242
78 1159
79 = 1144
80 1231
81 1127
82 948
83 = 1395
84 1199
85 1157
86 1115
87 1435


On Tue, Oct 8, = 2013 at 8:51 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
Curiously these = numbers do not match those at
https://www.ietf.org/meeting/past.html

Registration, we may conclude, does not equate to attendance.

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Joe
> Abley
> Sent: 08 October 2013 02:38
> To: Ted Lemon
> Cc: diversity@ietf.org; = IETF
> Subject: Re: year for highest number of IETF participants
>
> [krill:~]% for n in $(jot 15 73); do
> curl -s "https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf${n}/attendance.py= " | \
>   awk -v n=3D${n} '/ registrations:/ { sub(/ = registrations:.*$/, "");
sub(/^.*\>/, "");
> print n, $0; }'
> done
> 73 1111
> 74 1332
> 75 1230
> 76 1249
> 77 1350
> 78 1304
> 79 1337
> 80 1317
> 81 1244
> 82 1051
> 83 1529
> 84 1356
> 85 1351
> 86 1223
> 87 1585
> [krill:~]%



= --Apple-Mail=_B7A1308A-0368-41BF-B21B-928617D6872E-- From oflaherty@isoc.org Tue Oct 8 14:06:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F5821F9E62; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s65-iZzaP+Su; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0151.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.151]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9670421F9CE3; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 14:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB228.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.152) by BLUPR06MB225.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.785.10; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 21:06:13 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB228.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.200]) by BLUPR06MB228.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.200]) with mapi id 15.00.0775.005; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 21:06:13 +0000 From: Christian O'Flaherty To: "Eggert, Lars" , "Moriarty, Kathleen" Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Working with Universities Thread-Index: Ac7DWu7eCO5VZ2wKSE2tPpCHbROr2QAVPuMAACpiIgA= Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 21:06:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <858BA61B-6688-4E50-B8C9-FA02436FD8AB@netapp.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [186.52.168.58] x-forefront-prvs: 0993689CD1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(189002)(199002)(24454002)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(63696002)(19580395003)(83322001)(19580405001)(81342001)(74706001)(81542001)(83072001)(69226001)(81816001)(74876001)(76796001)(76786001)(36756003)(76176001)(80022001)(65816001)(66066001)(56816003)(77096001)(4396001)(77982001)(59766001)(74662001)(31966008)(47976001)(50986001)(49866001)(47736001)(46102001)(54356001)(51856001)(54316002)(53806001)(56776001)(74502001)(47446002)(85306002)(74366001)(76482001)(81686001)(79102001)(80976001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB225; H:BLUPR06MB228.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:186.52.168.58; FPR:; RD:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <25E1C87FDCB0C44D9F587BE97EDCA195@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 21:06:26 -0000 Hi, On 10/7/13 1:52 PM, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >Hi, > >On Oct 7, 2013, at 5:57, "Moriarty, Kathleen" >wrote: >> Many working groups have opportunities for software development. >>Students have projects where they need to code. If we were to create a >>site that enabled easy access for students to identify coding >>opportunities that could potentially live on beyond their project, we >>may get valuable input. A listing of working groups matched with >>existing implementations or a listing of what is needed would make it >>easier for students to see where they could help (jumping into something >>brand new to them). We could make this compelling for them and get >>interoperability testing feedback as a great way to have them be able to >>provide meaningful comments on list. > >this is very similar to what we had discussed for an IRTF/ISOC joint >program. Basically, a "summer of code"-style program where we support a >student over the summer in exchange for getting some RFC or ID content >converted into open source code. Even though I would not call it a program yet, there were several universities in Latam contacted and most of them were interested. Some people got involved in different ways since then, but none of them as developers for someone else's research. I fully support the publication of "a listing of what is needed". It can help us engage the appropriate groups within Universities more effectively. =20 Having said that, I would start with a small list and a few people from the IETF involved before creating a "program". Sometimes the expectations in the Universities are not fully aligned with the IETF needs (timeframe, support, research leadership, etc.) Christian > >(I think ISOC Latin America was trying to pilot this during 2013, but I >have not heard back.) > >> Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for >>working groups and development opportunities? > >I think it's a great idea. When we discussed this in the past, we came to >the conclusion that it would need to be driven by folks (professors, IETF >participants) from the regions we'd be targeting with this program, and >not by the IETF/IRTF. Because these folks can reach out to the students >much more effectively. > >Lars From sm@elandsys.com Wed Oct 9 00:56:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3398F21E80F2 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 00:56:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.609 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.609 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.991, BAYES_00=-2.599, FRT_PROFILE2=1.981, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XX282SurP5p0 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 00:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E69B21E80ED for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 00:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.234.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r997uCBA007986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 00:56:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1381305385; bh=vKApnFBEi1YSz5EBuaHtmH2jXqWeb9nKuDN0QU/cAOE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=eusCAYTG2xhfkLWFbBVkPUkObffpZXkzusFTiHa3lxBDLEYHStSK/iit+ao0zLgZI DeGNcx31ZcpJXsRxoXSLOtl6JMn+1pPHTWxiGdY1If6rJdMQui+oFpKlVqvoLOT60r Sb8ErER1MAtssmRZ/+6OJCh/aC8N96unL/R5PxLM= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1381305385; i=@elandsys.com; bh=vKApnFBEi1YSz5EBuaHtmH2jXqWeb9nKuDN0QU/cAOE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=FVH6T7SWEGGsgNhlvkbzWZ89DWNH0EYqOee/fcvu1pLpG7bgSn1TvV+jOydpxJozZ fodyep/OkQvqfkSXZnzBM32Ph5Hfd0CRNVqkEiwHuXm8FM37+o9vx1mftG97uNk6ND xccaYygY2+P0Ba7XSv+h5YcrqCppBumOmrBXK310= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 23:53:05 -0700 To: diversity@ietf.org From: S Moonesamy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_72275122==_" Subject: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 07:56:50 -0000 --=====================_72275122==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello, Here is version -02 of the draft about attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF. Most of the changes are in response to the review from Dave Crocker. The wording for two the criteria (Section 4.1) has been changed. I used the term "under-represented" instead of "emerging" regions. There are some worthwhile suggestions at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00386.html I left some of them out to try and keep the scope as narrow as possible. Regards, S. Moonesamy --=====================_72275122==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ddt-fellowship-02.txt" S. Moonesamy Expires: April 11, 2014 October 8, 2013 Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF draft-ddt-fellowship-02 1. Introduction The IETF Chair set up a Diversity Design Team in July, 2013 to understand the diversity problem and suggest solutions to make the IETF more inclusive. There is already an ISOC Fellowship programme to the IETF for participants from emerging regions. The Fellowship to the IETF helps to increase the diversity of inputs to, and global awareness of the IETF's vital work. This document builds upon the ISOC work, proposing adjustments and additional efforts, with the goal of enabling more sustained and active participation by contributors from under-represented regions. Section 2 lists the objectives of the existing ISOC Fellowship programme and the selection criteria. The current programme does help new participants to establish an initial face-to-face contact. However, long-term benefit requires helping these participants to engage in the full range of IETF interactions. The most effective way to contribute to the IETF is through on-going active participation and by reviewing and commenting about working group drafts. There are suggestions in Section 4 to better align the ISOC Fellowship programme with the expectations of the IETF Community by having selection criteria that encourages active IETF participation, and by having an evaluation panel with the expertise to evaluate IETF contributions. 2. Existing support for participants from emerging regions 2.1. Objectives of the ISOC Fellowship programme The Internet Society's efforts are encompassed by a basic Fellowship Programme and a Returning Fellowship Programme. The Internet Society has provided significant financial support given that attendance by technologists from emerging and developing economies is currently limited [FEL]. It is considered that actually attending a face-to- face IETF meeting promotes a stronger understanding of the standards process, lays the foundation for active involvement in IETF work, and facilitates personal networking with others that have similar technical interests [FEL]. Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 1] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 8, 2013 The main purpose [FEL] of the ISOC Fellowship programme is to: - Raise global awareness about the IETF and its work. - Foster greater understanding of, and participation in, the work of the IETF by technologists from emerging and developing economies. - Provide an opportunity for networking with individuals from around the world with similar technical interests. - Identify and foster potential future leaders from emerging and developing economies - Demonstrate the Internet community's commitment to fostering greater global participation in Internet Forums such as the IETF. The goals of the ISOC Returning fellowship programme [RET] are to: - Provide an opportunity for highly committed former Fellows to return to the IETF to advance specific standards work. - More fully integrate technologists from emerging and developing economies into the IETF. - Advance the technical leadership potential of individuals from emerging and developing economies. - Provide immediate value to a working group by participating in scribing the working group meeting and contributing to the meeting minutes. 2.2. Selection criteria for the ISOC Fellowship programme Some of the requirements [SEL] for qualifying for ISOC Fellowship programme are: - Hold a university-level computer science, information technology, or similar degree, or can demonstrate similar and relevant work experience. - Be employed in a technical or technical management capacity with a data network provider (including university networks), a technology vendor, a local technical association, or other similar organisation OR be a university-level computer science/information technology professor, lecturer, or student currently undertaking research in one or more areas of current Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 2] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 8, 2013 IETF standardisation work. Students must be enrolled in a graduate-level program (Masters or Ph.D). - Possess a strong understanding of how the IETF relates to and impacts their work or area of study and demonstrate how specific areas of current IETF work are relevant to their pursuits. Some of the attributes [SEL] that reflect favorably on the application are: - Involvement in one or more regional data networking organisations, such as regional operators groups - Having actively participated in the work of an IETF Working Group through the mailing lists. A Returning Fellowship award will not be given to the same individual twice in one calendar year. 3. Expectations of the IETF Community The current ISOC Fellowship Programme is primarily useful for initial introductions to IETF activities and culture. However the goal in the IETF, itself, is for continuing and active participation, which goes considerably beyond introductions. Moving from introduction to participation requires additional effort.. Although attending IETF meetings fosters an understanding of the work of the IETF it does not ensure active participation. Active participation in the work of an IETF Working Group is listed as an advantage instead of a requirement for the fellowship [SEL]. The existing selection criteria puts an emphasis on university-level qualifications and the academic interests of the applicant [SEL]. However, it has been mentioned in discussions about academic participation that the IETF filters out proposals from researchers simply because they just do not fit in standardization work [DIN]. The Returning Fellowship programme is a laudable initiative by the Internet Society to further encourage IETF participation from an under-represented sector. It is unclear how an ISOC Fellow can build upon the initial -- but limited -- experiences of the basic Programme and Returning Fellow Programme, to achieve the Fellow's technical leadership potential, through on-going, active participation in the IETF. 4. Suggestions 4.1. Selection criteria for the basic Programme and Returning Fellow Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 3] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 8, 2013 Programme The most effective way to contribute to the IETF is through active participation and by reviewing and commenting about working group drafts [FAA]. It is proposed that the applicant fulfills the following criteria: - Be proficient in English. - Has been actively and constructively participating in the IETF for at least six months. For example, reviewing drafts, commenting on IETF Last Calls, writing code for drafts or taking part in interop testing are fine ways to be seen to have participated. Candidates whose contributions are considered more useful should be preferred over those who are less useful. Judging utility for contributions requires knowledge of the specific field. - Resident of a country in an under-represented region. 4.2. Evaluation panel It is suggested to include Area Directors or Working Group Chairs on the evaluation panel [FAS]. These people will bring in the expertise to evaluate the contributions made by the applicant. They can also determine whether the applicant has an understanding of the work done in the IETF. It is suggested that the evaluation panel prioritize people who have been contributing over time to real IETF work. 4.3. Guidance for applicants Applicants can familiarize themselves with the technologies being discussed by, for example, implementing the relevant specifications or evaluating implementations [ACS]. Applicants can ask for advice on the edu-discuss@ietf.org mailing list [EDU]. 4.4. Effectiveness of the fellowship The effectiveness of the fellowship can be assessed by tracking the IETF activities of the fellows and doing a follow-up to find out why fellows drop out. 5. Open Issue The following is left open as it may require broader feedback. There were comments to remove the "resident of a country in an under- Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 4] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 8, 2013 represented region" suggestion (Section 4.1) so that people from "developed" regions who would not ordinarily have the means to attend an IETF meeting are included in the programme. 6. Acknowledgements The author would like to thank Alejandro Acosta, Adrian Farrel, Roque Gagliano, Vinayak Hegde and Kathleen Moriarty for contributing to the discussions about participation from emerging countries. Thanks to Dave Crocker and Stephen Farrell for their substantial contributions to improve the document. 7. References [FEL] Internet Society, About the Fellowship, Accessed 4 October, 2013, [RET] Internet Society, Returning Fellowship to the IETF Programme, Accessed 4 October, 2013, [SEL] Internet Society, Selection Criteria for Fellowships to the IETF, Accessed 4 October, 2013, [DIN] [FAA] [FAS] [ACS] [EDU] 8. Author's Address Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 5] S. Moonesamy Attracting people October 8, 2013 S. Moonesamy Email: sm+ietf@elandsys.com Expires April 11, 2014 [Page 6] --=====================_72275122==_-- From arturo.servin@gmail.com Wed Oct 9 10:07:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6565C21E80A3 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:07:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dksNbMOmQmnF for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-x232.google.com (mail-qe0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B642521E808F for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a11so1061427qen.9 for ; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=LDvrXkfg+CtqPP+AqpUdKWe9L4evFpPLfPBzU630F4A=; b=tUduUb/cDhhpqpv/rCjxCPLbmoAiM3gHx+iOdnK2sfkW3ZUlgoxWlggU/EdR6KEoL/ Ysv2FHXLPw7BZxXy5g+HsYIfSFAFU+S2tJ7YfyzwccBHE18nCCc4u8mTWR+jS5WKx3hb FfgT4ZNyWlj8ihf9cHZzthP9KlI2BRtlyP37egQ0cizcdscMpm3bjRETjzgxcEFkhlHK ZiStyCR18gUvpg7jMgAbRwl3Xxx8nHTTJi63Dw1J+qDCLAskk2J8+yupvE9C345NpSR9 eQkhJ5neTKO23IOzliK3eeVizJLcIZSdwenJM3Nz/Um9DnhKMBqUNx6QBUzHweLA1YB7 +6Sg== X-Received: by 10.49.94.72 with SMTP id da8mr10800273qeb.67.1381338437942; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2001:13c7:7001:7000:85a2:4d29:b62a:aacb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x1sm88183946qai.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:07:18 -0200 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060209040807000102070302" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 17:07:20 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060209040807000102070302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF"? I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC fellowship to give a clear direction to improve participation of under-represented regions to the IETF in general. My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more generic. Regards, as On 10/9/13 4:53 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hello, > > Here is version -02 of the draft about attracting people from > under-represented regions into the IETF. Most of the changes are in > response to the review from Dave Crocker. The wording for two the > criteria (Section 4.1) has been changed. I used the term > "under-represented" instead of "emerging" regions. > > There are some worthwhile suggestions at > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00386.html I > left some of them out to try and keep the scope as narrow as possible. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --------------060209040807000102070302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

    Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF"?

    I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC fellowship to give a clear direction to improve participation of under-represented regions to the IETF in general.

    My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more generic.

Regards,
as
On 10/9/13 4:53 AM, S Moonesamy wrote:
Hello,

Here is version -02 of the draft about attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF.  Most of the changes are in response to the review from Dave Crocker.  The wording for two the criteria (Section 4.1) has been changed.  I used the term "under-represented" instead of "emerging" regions.

There are some worthwhile suggestions at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00386.html I left some of them out to try and keep the scope as narrow as possible.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy


_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity

--------------060209040807000102070302-- From lars@netapp.com Wed Oct 9 22:09:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5AFC21E80CB for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 22:09:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.175 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.175 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.424, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6zd8UGc01Cbo for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 22:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE3121E80C6 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 22:09:24 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,1069,1371106800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="98517647" Received: from vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.35]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2013 22:09:24 -0700 Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.46]) by vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 22:09:24 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOxRIlvO2eY/DkkUSykpOCvNdYGJnt2O0A Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:09:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9A07CA1F-1FAD-4BD7-9855-2A34A30EA40B@netapp.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.116] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A7221B84-38F1-4915-8329-5830F2485DBC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 05:09:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A7221B84-38F1-4915-8329-5830F2485DBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Fully agree with Arturo. On Oct 9, 2013, at 19:07, Arturo Servin wrote: > Hi, > > Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC Fellowship > programme to Attracting people from under-represented regions into the > IETF"? > > I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC fellowship > to give a clear direction to improve participation of under-represented > regions to the IETF in general. > > My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more generic. > > Regards, > as > > > On 10/9/13 4:53 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Here is version -02 of the draft about attracting people from >> under-represented regions into the IETF. Most of the changes are in >> response to the review from Dave Crocker. The wording for two the >> criteria (Section 4.1) has been changed. I used the term >> "under-represented" instead of "emerging" regions. >> >> There are some worthwhile suggestions at >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/diversity/current/msg00386.html I >> left some of them out to try and keep the scope as narrow as possible. >> >> Regards, >> S. Moonesamy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --Apple-Mail=_A7221B84-38F1-4915-8329-5830F2485DBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBUlY2etZcnpRveo1xAQIHWAQArC4bCgTIH5knoUxMyE7VS1d6DMXZZ5be YRqI/X4VZl6Ya1iFdNv91g9YLQoaW23MVl2//eeG8nAwJZK0P8SuFgXqHVxI19Ih CIIE/4Ljtp2qM73f+0h4htTqNVpgp1/vzFw496LgNFep+yY++2lsKrzS7ZBx9GH9 UuqLVzflJVg= =/3rM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_A7221B84-38F1-4915-8329-5830F2485DBC-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Thu Oct 10 02:16:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51B421F9AD2; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3p8AAQFR5Bx0; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x231.google.com (mail-pd0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9265221F8790; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id y10so2289350pdj.8 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ROgfJdfPWfbwQKSFiCXnK4kH9pWGswP+1O4m+gfc2Ys=; b=CLzhBjiRKG5c0aDfrGyt08QjI+2nHQR5lTjC9MibVPkYHN3tU8AP3IaLHKfRBl7PHK eNm9dKqqRWREUCs9shTmNY+sazhBvOG1TwHURqcEhGTs4FaJrte/Wbgq5r8t+Z1BYcNC L9uA8evBEteD+Rh8JyC7KU61yA7CjwP+ZoHQDRBPM1agpyeTqb5eH4jm12455keKPQPa 77qnbgz4vc9qNjqdvI5pR/D24DzahDLu8+IGf/QEJSiv7AtqW8KXA5Qhu3+b4xYlZnXn jVizs2os5duRC4cVj+6EsjQFISnSw60Ur40dEdEmPC7w5L6mxeL2MsSSrloCpZa7QbSc Zbrw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.197.104 with SMTP id it8mr12713744pbc.17.1381396608693; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.69.8.5 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 02:16:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:16:48 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c9a227ba4104e85f763b Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "diversity-dt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Working with Universities X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 09:16:58 -0000 --e89a8ff1c9a227ba4104e85f763b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen < kathleen.moriarty@emc.com> wrote: > **** > > ** ** > > Working groups could also identify opportunities where they want help. > Students could then look at each of those WGs and see what interests them > most. I talked to a professor in Chili who may start doing this with her > students. Making this easier could really expand this involvement and get > them used to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets them feel like > they are providing solid contributions. Some people shy away from > contributing otherwise. > I support that our IETF WGs need participation from students and more university memebrs, students comments IMHO are the most important ones, and awareness is more important for the IETF future. > **** > > ** ** > > Is this something we think could be set up, some sort of match-up for > working groups and development opportunities? > Absolutly can match-up, I always encourage students to participate but seems there are still some who do discourage in IETF, or that you may participate and editors ignore acknowledging and take/use your work, however, WGs Chairs in IETF need to consider your ideas because they seem not able to handle the volume of partcipation for developing the WGs' opportunities and the IETF's opportunity/awareness. AB --e89a8ff1c9a227ba4104e85f763b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On M= on, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Moriarty, Kathleen <kathleen.moriarty@= emc.com> wrote:
=A0

=A0

=A0Working groups could also identify opportunities where th= ey want help.=A0 Students could then look at each of those WGs and see what= interests them most.=A0 I talked to a professor in Chili who may start doi= ng this with her students. =A0Making this easier could really expand this i= nvolvement and get them used to talking on mailing lists in a way that lets= them feel like they are providing solid contributions.=A0 Some people shy = away from contributing otherwise.

=A0
I support that our IETF WGs=A0n= eed participation from students and more university memebrs, students comme= nts IMHO are the most important ones, and awareness is more important for t= he IETF future.
=A0

=A0

= =A0

Is this something we think could be se= t up, some sort of match-up for working groups and development opportunitie= s?

=A0
Absolutly can match-up,=A0I always en= courage students to participate but seems there are still some who do disco= urage in IETF, or that you may participate and editors ignore=A0acknowledgi= ng and take/use your work,=A0however, WGs Chairs in IETF need to consider y= our ideas because they seem not=A0able to handle the volume of partcipation= for developing the WGs' opportunities and=A0the IETF's opportunity= /awareness.
=A0
AB

--e89a8ff1c9a227ba4104e85f763b-- From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 10 03:01:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8C021E80F9 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 03:01:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.495, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xiEoF9r58W0b for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 03:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33DA21E809E for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 03:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.226.232.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9AA1Ukr020443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 03:01:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1381399302; bh=fVVZVrl0Ek2N26wr5eKKhyU86CzTKD48FDNCxOAbbK4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=e17NsqDUAbUkNRH9YoPFmtKHhxA/aoa1CrN9PUUk+OnrdXo+87qul9r/TpW3TvP6v t8NaWrXKygWgctRUtKlmhggq20grMuEJEz1+8YyjQg7DXj27Xj6Fm5hmRMhM7GgnNn 3CVgi6FSehOsyUZOXABKaQWMXhHgnFRX7IhbDEuo= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1381399302; i=@elandsys.com; bh=fVVZVrl0Ek2N26wr5eKKhyU86CzTKD48FDNCxOAbbK4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=FymT3gplKlNVPUPpCufYfjvzqlaUQ8Mz+aVh3QOYWq9nZBxIrpMupPww8rZM5TPoJ zLIpHUToOtx3NvL3MK7lYZgBboaQ+l5BOap5Ik3kdsoNiYRUYxpsxSa14eBbYVhEv9 9LuUQG+I6jGaMWSz/CmHS6extFsKNTNAW4Za7AP0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010024033.0c6794b8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 03:00:03 -0700 To: Arturo Servin From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:01:50 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 10:07 09-10-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: > Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC > Fellowship programme to Attracting people from under-represented > regions into the IETF"? > > I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC > fellowship to give a clear direction to improve participation of > under-represented regions to the IETF in general. > > My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more generic. I'll follow your suggestion and rewrite the title as: "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to attract people from under-represented regions into the IETF" I'll post the draft to ietf@ietf.org. If there isn't consensus on that mailing list it is unlikely that the suggestions in the draft will be accepted within the IETF. If anyone has concerns about what is in the draft I suggest raising them on the ietf@ietf.org mailing list. Regards, S. Moonesamy From arturo.servin@gmail.com Thu Oct 10 06:30:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A6E21E808D for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.85 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qta+zc9E2Qbp for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x235.google.com (mail-vc0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0EE21F9E83 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id id10so1124064vcb.40 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g17TACSis4WeIkCF3hKiUtbM2s6yv4/haSmYmhs5HkI=; b=Vphf2/q8AbjnDmgQlJPpXKShT8vK3lnJZ4aaC+P5eRxFMd6SE1rSCOQswHtQf3CvPI oWnM3rwjHAHwZ4mI3U/VVQxdKqHz8CB1IX5i2YlQ2Os5NMRrjxPZtHmln8judyWkmIMV c0zjlQjwa26+fj0CUjgGmcKDXS+vgz6RJ3k7E63gMgphDuq3eU3qHjPBgbeH2Po2Hf6u QyK4Nzodgim64VGpieDzeWmURI79md7Z6WsNtakpjhRVrUuEUDSD717s7tWPz/DyoP4o mKjNZeSHNlkkDVctUtMGohI9LAJkJyn7YJTXQK2wC1ajKxNhJO+gEaNw9mKowEf2CPQ+ 20Vw== X-Received: by 10.52.120.78 with SMTP id la14mr11591870vdb.9.1381411848353; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2001:13c7:7001:7000:58d3:754:c864:eed6]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id la1sm7811535vdb.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5256AC07.9010609@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:30:47 -0200 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131008233721.0b8041f8@elandnews.com> <52558D46.90000@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20131010024033.0c6794b8@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010024033.0c6794b8@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:30:49 -0000 Good, looking forward to it. And thanks for taking the time to write the draft. Regards, as On 10/10/13 8:00 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Hi Arturo, > At 10:07 09-10-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: >> Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC Fellowship >> programme to Attracting people from under-represented regions into >> the IETF"? >> >> I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC >> fellowship to give a clear direction to improve participation of >> under-represented regions to the IETF in general. >> >> My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more >> generic. > > I'll follow your suggestion and rewrite the title as: > > "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to attract people from > under-represented regions into the IETF" > > I'll post the draft to ietf@ietf.org. If there isn't consensus on > that mailing list it is unlikely that the suggestions in the draft > will be accepted within the IETF. If anyone has concerns about what > is in the draft I suggest raising them on the ietf@ietf.org mailing list. > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy From conte@isoc.org Thu Oct 10 09:30:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC7D21E8122 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 09:30:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.874 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.874 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.726, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3HeZMcyv3QWd for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 09:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0152.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.152]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DE721E8090 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 09:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.148) by BLUPR06MB020.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.190.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.785.10; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:30:00 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.4.126]) by BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.4.126]) with mapi id 15.00.0785.001; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:30:00 +0000 From: Steve Conte To: S Moonesamy , Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF Thread-Index: AQHOxRIIcXWItL6W/EKGhqTKeVUOqpnttNaA///3l4A= Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:29:59 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010024033.0c6794b8@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.170.168.6] x-forefront-prvs: 0995196AA2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(479174003)(24454002)(377454003)(377424004)(164054003)(189002)(199002)(51704005)(52604005)(81816001)(47976001)(81542001)(74706001)(50986001)(36756003)(81342001)(74876001)(54316002)(74366001)(56776001)(49866001)(47736001)(56816003)(77096001)(76786001)(59766001)(76796001)(76176001)(69226001)(77982001)(85306002)(80022001)(66066001)(74502001)(83072001)(31966008)(54356001)(47446002)(74662001)(51856001)(53806001)(83322001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(76482001)(4396001)(81686001)(46102001)(80976001)(65816001)(63696002)(79102001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB020; H:BLUPR06MB019.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:76.170.168.6; FPR:; RD:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:30:11 -0000 SM, As the others have stated, thanks for taking the time to look at the ISOC Fellowship to the IETF programme. As a 5+ times awardee of the fellowship, you have the ability to see the value of the programme directly. I'm struggling with the title that has been suggested: "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to attract people from under-represented regions into the IETF". This draft is more about suggesting ways in which ISOC should change the programme to be more restrictive rather than finding ways to attract more applicants. The suggestions in the draft reflect changes in selection criteria of applicants and the make-up of the selection committee. These suggestions speak to increasing the quality of the applicant (which ISOC is already doing) and not about attracting more people. As I mentioned in a previous mail, the fellowship programme is only one piece of the overall ISOC strategy to increase awareness and participation in the IETF. By looking only at the granularity of the fellowship programme, it is missing the other methods in which ISOC works towards attracting people to participate in the IETF. Finally, what will be the end result of this draft? Will the IETF submit this to ISOC as recommendations for consideration? There are certainly some ideas within the draft that would be considered, but in the end, this is an ISOC programme and final decisions on how it's run remain within ISOC. Thanks, Steve ----- Steve Conte Internet Leadership Programme The Internet Society conte@isoc.org On 10/10/13 3:00 AM, "S Moonesamy" wrote: >Hi Arturo, >At 10:07 09-10-2013, Arturo Servin wrote: >> Shouldn't this draft have a title "Improving the ISOC >> Fellowship programme to Attracting people from under-represented >> regions into the IETF"? >> >> I like the draft, but I think it is to tied to the ISOC >> fellowship to give a clear direction to improve participation of >> under-represented regions to the IETF in general. >> >> My suggestion is to change the title or re-write it to be more >>generic. > >I'll follow your suggestion and rewrite the title as: > > "Improving the ISOC Fellowship programme to attract people from > under-represented regions into the IETF" > >I'll post the draft to ietf@ietf.org. If there isn't consensus on >that mailing list it is unlikely that the suggestions in the draft >will be accepted within the IETF. If anyone has concerns about what >is in the draft I suggest raising them on the ietf@ietf.org mailing list. > >Regards, >S. Moonesamy=20 > >_______________________________________________ >diversity mailing list >diversity@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity From juliao@braga.eti.br Thu Oct 10 10:15:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F04211E817F for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8svgQpMTk7U1 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f170.google.com (mail-vc0-f170.google.com [209.85.220.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F4511E8179 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id lc6so1925444vcb.1 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CwZtEGeo+9Ryp9XdGKo9EeDg0/4sZOyW9IpYccC4St4=; b=gXmQIXAFPxI36R+qm7DiN0zlqevDPa7oUvhg4VB/Brd/zRPwDrAXPFgVOyJ7BYD32s mS9y7/9yC6MZk1fEUrxUf62EUSvOeG2nLtdgiYSu2Fd6SdPkO7v3qaDsIiLxBgRWMjDB G1qPDglnzwfxP5qALaEajTVSOda/lCZL/KIgqAiRV+tVmz83irsvXsDbUhCePEgtinBo xV1rTdiRiEDTFpoWqQHE+DZqwUf0TfGaIAJ84xGGz2o3Jh+ZZkhIypgfVuF7rNo86z1b xotdN6jOPn0VkybU7vs7R1xoSGF48C35R7qxSooGqM7udaOF5dZjYJLelJHl3LB4BSdO L3Xw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmunSd2hkLHWoeid271yiQ+aNqqk6iatwRkPxXXkbg2f+cJ0W5CSZ2w9v0TGWNHTCCkF2TS X-Received: by 10.52.26.6 with SMTP id h6mr7686544vdg.57.1381425327118; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:1294:1295:1295::167? ([2001:1294:1295:1295::167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sm5sm50996550vdc.9.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:15:22 -0300 From: Juliao Braga User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diversity@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 17:15:33 -0000 SM, There is a question, which seems to have been commented upon "an passant" in this list: how to increase the participation of people in the IETF meetings. My view is that the local chapters of the ISOC could help a lot. I will cite an example from Brazil. The CGI.br (Brazilian Internet Steering Comitee) is proposing to offer five felloships for Brazilians participate in IETF meetings . Well, the Brazilian chapter of ISOC could attend to expedite this propose (coincidentally, the chair of the Brazilian chapter of ISOC is a member of CGI), and look for other one's. This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. prospecting grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are many resources available in public and private institutions of a country. All chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people from Latin America. And so also in other countries. Another thing to think about is the allocation of these resources to the ISOC, which already has skills in distribute fellowships. Regards, Juliao Em 10/10/2013 13:29, Steve Conte escreveu: > SM, > > As the others have stated, thanks for taking the time to look at the ISOC > Fellowship to the IETF programme. From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 10 11:57:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EDA421F9998 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.557, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zzkNf9nA46gs for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAD021F9EE9 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.138.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9AIu9ZJ011906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1381431382; bh=VOIGphTxxBIP+VVFAhRKS0bdGNmXwPkkgOJ7eHmBJLY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=VpGgBpBBiwUPPv7aRbsc4odzEQ+MbT66X4QhLSPIBH7t9x6zQH5H3niuysWky0SUl iUVgShv2Fui5nesi2bC+meGILLRZk0EDIQXBOT/PDoT9UyXarz6DguGSIW5SsxRWL1 89k9cjvd6UQ7o0hxckCxPsGwBF3F867jPWM6zvcU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1381431382; i=@elandsys.com; bh=VOIGphTxxBIP+VVFAhRKS0bdGNmXwPkkgOJ7eHmBJLY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=25WCBqwgbVFTE78F04gA7NfC59ArtUEresJo0ZGBmCYNvt1/9TlqqgSIiTvwMJWeq UBW6LSPCxGq+/qiQzng8JKKrOMhmTnv4Fh9ak3+nKvjoVjIMrOd/hvAdCMfBnnFj14 kVE5qmBMiFvMTP5rfQgbhMG1ZcZ7X69X4gNIBMz4= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010093454.0b1644d0@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 10:10:41 -0700 To: Steve Conte From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010024033.0c6794b8@resistor.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Arturo Servin Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:57:46 -0000 Hi Steve, At 09:29 10-10-2013, Steve Conte wrote: >As the others have stated, thanks for taking the time to look at the ISOC >Fellowship to the IETF programme. As a 5+ times awardee of the >fellowship, you have the ability to see the value of the programme >directly. Ok. >I'm struggling with the title that has been suggested: "Improving the ISOC >Fellowship programme to attract people from under-represented regions into >the IETF". I suggest raising that as a concern on the ietf@ietf.org mailing list. Arturo Servin suggested the title and Lars Eggert agreed with the comments. >This draft is more about suggesting ways in which ISOC should change the >programme to be more restrictive rather than finding ways to attract more >applicants. The suggestions in the draft reflect changes in selection >criteria of applicants and the make-up of the selection committee. These >suggestions speak to increasing the quality of the applicant (which ISOC >is already doing) and not about attracting more people. > >As I mentioned in a previous mail, the fellowship programme is only one >piece of the overall ISOC strategy to increase awareness and participation >in the IETF. By looking only at the granularity of the fellowship >programme, it is missing the other methods in which ISOC works towards >attracting people to participate in the IETF. I suggest raising the above as a concern on the ietf@ietf.org mailing list. >Finally, what will be the end result of this draft? Will the IETF submit >this to ISOC as recommendations for consideration? There are certainly >some ideas within the draft that would be considered, but in the end, this >is an ISOC programme and final decisions on how it's run remain within >ISOC. I don't know what the end result of the draft will be. I don't know what the IETF will do with the draft. Regards, S. Moonesamy From sm@elandsys.com Thu Oct 10 12:37:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE4E21F9CB1 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.052 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.052 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.547, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7MQYiGWy9Sct for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1EE21F853A for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.elandsys.com ([197.224.138.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r9AJaHtK025509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:36:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1381433789; bh=PVO3r1XwAC0ue0D4opm58T7tDYq6ZDDZZqxNUjtgkRQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=QS0wlXD+SWNTtgaqa27Bew9D19QVujyft6E2eWrcfPNWTYukFy8ARJflf8hp9v4Zt ahbecSBrKUDkD8tumEV77wiUgkaLWpmdhzfdnXrEbfD8we5kmbtcc1bAoSoFgr3sTP yJmi8S/Ocaj55JdJZ9FlO9osu/hrEyTsYfP3X0MY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1381433789; i=@elandsys.com; bh=PVO3r1XwAC0ue0D4opm58T7tDYq6ZDDZZqxNUjtgkRQ=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=dOjZccq4BGAlQip9SKFNbji0CyTf+nHsdmrhWvkhk5YktIoO/DlGzKnUaNdw0WCXY /b2/vnyOf1QvgasrS0zz/n4JMYp4tV8/S44b40wJ658HE/T3uXrIquG1ii7JvfsoiS F6x+2/RUNmlNUWU0+ivlEYYdG0cMcrmTWCFF7FxU= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:35:59 -0700 To: Juliao Braga From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> References: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: diversity@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 19:37:44 -0000 Hi Juliao, At 10:15 10-10-2013, Juliao Braga wrote: >There is a question, which seems to have been commented upon "an >passant" in this list: how to increase the participation of people in >the IETF meetings. > >My view is that the local chapters of the ISOC could help a lot. I will >cite an example from Brazil. The CGI.br (Brazilian Internet Steering >Comitee) is proposing to offer five felloships for Brazilians >participate in IETF meetings . Well, the Brazilian chapter of ISOC could >attend to expedite this propose (coincidentally, the chair of the >Brazilian chapter of ISOC is a member of CGI), and look for other one's. This is a good initiative. I hope that the discussion about the draft can be of help to CGI.br. >This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. prospecting >grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are many >resources available in public and private institutions of a country. All >chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC >allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people >from Latin America. And so also in other countries. Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list. He may be able to comment about the LACNIC side. It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest some practical action. For example, getting grants might be related to the problem of academic participation in the IETF. If the IETF Community is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be easier to get help from the IETF side. Regards, S. Moonesamy From arturo.servin@gmail.com Thu Oct 10 18:13:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E421721F9FC6 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:13:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qhso2LrMwKuS for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f173.google.com (mail-gg0-f173.google.com [209.85.161.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF22621F8413 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gg0-f173.google.com with SMTP id l1so532131ggn.4 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:12:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Vv8X5tfJKWQ9g+nwRKncwojF7HHRWtS0qSEEXP70aPY=; b=0TjP9+Eh0PQ0Snssmp2opT4BH4qT0HQ2KfDbjKzGZazbJQRSbT+F6OFoXui2ggO1ud bbTm2EcdE0Sk57EpwM0//DmuFe7msOEY26KKfacX1NDt95gx/R8J4mrcQSWYvhm6irwL uWwWpifwq5s83KBUM3oetlpy8RrK3lUCqT4/hsWm0rSi/4RRaOSXWgGxxAHy8ETEndYO iX3U7UoU+0wWn0sIeCMC+QieYbW8Wx46smKhb6GvrXvD52XQ0wN22B1cytUNxACO/DR+ fK8Yy9LOKB5zJF0xYPKCPRbNaazz5+UcOIgL2fCofYFBX98waux5OM50ThGEgO+pixJ9 CE4A== X-Received: by 10.236.81.237 with SMTP id m73mr9417128yhe.29.1381453960915; Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local ([2800:af:ba30:c192:4ce2:5bab:af6b:307a]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm74467212yhd.19.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52575089.6050207@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 23:12:41 -0200 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: S Moonesamy References: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: diversity@ietf.org, Juliao Braga Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 01:13:02 -0000 Can't say too much as we do not have a position to support scholarships for people to go to the IETF. What I can certainly say is that from LACNIC we are supporting other initiatives to encourage people to participate in the IETF. One of those is partnership with LACNOG to promote IETF work in the region in several in our events and with a Task Foce (ietf-lac@lacnog.org). Another very specific was to arrange a visit to the university to speak with students when Jari Arkko and Russ Housley visited Montevideo. Also, if an IETF is organized in Latin America, be sure that we would do our best to support a variety of efforts. Regards, as On 10/10/13 5:35 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: > This is a good initiative. I hope that the discussion about the draft > can be of help to CGI.br. > >> This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. prospecting >> grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are many >> resources available in public and private institutions of a country. All >> chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC >> allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people >> from Latin America. And so also in other countries. > > Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list. He may be able to comment > about the LACNIC side. > > It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest some > practical action. For example, getting grants might be related to the > problem of academic participation in the IETF. If the IETF Community > is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be > easier to get help from the IETF side. From adiel@afrinic.net Fri Oct 11 12:33:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C2511E8174 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:33:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GjB8eGhQS+sx for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mu.afrinic.net (smtp.afrinic.net [196.6.0.202]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AF611E812F for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [41.76.42.123] (port=48773 helo=[192.168.21.113]) by smtp.mu.afrinic.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1VUiSd-0008QC-3d; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:33:19 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8857A3B8-770D-4E53-B371-810938083771"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Adiel Akplogan In-Reply-To: <52575089.6050207@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 23:33:11 +0400 Message-Id: References: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> <52575089.6050207@gmail.com> To: "diversity@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: Juliao Braga , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 19:33:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8857A3B8-770D-4E53-B371-810938083771 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As I already mentioned in one of my previous mail, I think it will be = good (and better) to widen the scope of this kind of draft to address = general issue and set general guideline (not focus just one initiative = which is ISOC fellowship). At AFRINIC we also have some regional = initiatives to support participation to IETF we have created back in = 2006 an IETF fellowship through which we have sent 2 people selected = from the community to the IETF, but unfortunately it has not produced = the result we expected. We focus our effort right now on raising = awareness within students and universities and our own staff. That being = said we are very keen to do more and revive an improved felowship = program. A draft like this can be of interest to our fellowship program = team. - a. On 2013-10-11, at 05:12 AM, Arturo Servin = wrote: >=20 > Can't say too much as we do not have a position to support > scholarships for people to go to the IETF. What I can certainly say is > that from LACNIC we are supporting other initiatives to encourage = people > to participate in the IETF. >=20 > One of those is partnership with LACNOG to promote IETF work in the > region in several in our events and with a Task Foce > (ietf-lac@lacnog.org). Another very specific was to arrange a visit to > the university to speak with students when Jari Arkko and Russ Housley > visited Montevideo. Also, if an IETF is organized in Latin America, be > sure that we would do our best to support a variety of efforts. >=20 >=20 > Regards, > as >=20 >=20 > On 10/10/13 5:35 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: >> This is a good initiative. I hope that the discussion about the = draft >> can be of help to CGI.br. >>=20 >>> This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. = prospecting >>> grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are = many >>> resources available in public and private institutions of a country. = All >>> chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC >>> allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of = people >>> from Latin America. And so also in other countries. >>=20 >> Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list. He may be able to comment >> about the LACNIC side. >>=20 >> It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest = some >> practical action. For example, getting grants might be related to = the >> problem of academic participation in the IETF. If the IETF Community >> is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be >> easier to get help from the IETF side. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --Apple-Mail=_8857A3B8-770D-4E53-B371-810938083771 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQCVAwUBUlhSd6PBL6dQeG11AQIXsgP/YY3pcVyALJj2RYKq5Bg2tOYxmOsjmntb edaSaTkwGHWSXyO0TJxfIyfKJI/vcsfHJP5H4NPpbnT29AylKfuXYo8A87d8CTBy q9l5B+Nh6LTqfjffp2tzo++LlS5UgckcpNiN1nFw9vlSyxW1t2B75haNKjZqOyvs uHaTFYw78rY= =4Inr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8857A3B8-770D-4E53-B371-810938083771-- From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Sat Oct 12 03:41:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7A321F9C6C for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.615 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.615 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5MaM-nNYcct5 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x234.google.com (mail-pb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69DB11E8200 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so5291859pbc.25 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2fbClEbA5867RQPk2LGoQmOa0x8SoweNHIcufLIOza8=; b=MiYYHjfyyLkfOWiGMVRw6MfE+FmcaFCJINeZXh7VgxxDHJzaYgclpeNWseRh/H4VCD LRqnyncS2aJqkTk0OAnDNcIe/8IkEEdUZOOp1MXLARq+U0U6RD2Un9Ct3BfWRqibr+Zd Fs+amwln3Qo/7hMb/7JX+MW93CjGJsRhq/bm8eZgNh8P00BGqQfv5b8df8B1Iy0htbkM SqONJ4tFC/8Krnjj29Do58bOV6OKIqFQ7dnFc9OwFERCY3x4LpWUsAq9CDWRudkpOSiC g/vcM//R+M0ravTAURSBnfh6lqWFhqK8PwEI4uoayIS2kfVr70IweV7NZYNSIjY/uNOE 1JCQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.196.227 with SMTP id ip3mr551960pbc.163.1381574463606; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.69.8.5 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Oct 2013 03:41:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> <52575089.6050207@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:41:03 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Adiel Akplogan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:41:08 -0000 Hi Adiel, I support your input as well. The fellowship program need to know what IETF thinks about them. The change of the title of the draft is not a good idea, and the solution of the attraction of regions is not only fellowship. The draft has good points or intentions but not having real case studies, I think your real example will help to be added to the weak fellowship impact of attracting new comers from unaware regions. AB On 10/11/13, Adiel Akplogan wrote: > As I already mentioned in one of my previous mail, I think it will be good > (and better) to widen the scope of this kind of draft to address general > issue and set general guideline (not focus just one initiative which is ISOC > fellowship). At AFRINIC we also have some regional initiatives to support > participation to IETF we have created back in 2006 an IETF fellowship > through which we have sent 2 people selected from the community to the IETF, > but unfortunately it has not produced the result we expected. We focus our > effort right now on raising awareness within students and universities and > our own staff. That being said we are very keen to do more and revive an > improved felowship program. A draft like this can be of interest to our > fellowship program team. > > - a. > On 2013-10-11, at 05:12 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > >> >> Can't say too much as we do not have a position to support >> scholarships for people to go to the IETF. What I can certainly say is >> that from LACNIC we are supporting other initiatives to encourage people >> to participate in the IETF. >> >> One of those is partnership with LACNOG to promote IETF work in the >> region in several in our events and with a Task Foce >> (ietf-lac@lacnog.org). Another very specific was to arrange a visit to >> the university to speak with students when Jari Arkko and Russ Housley >> visited Montevideo. Also, if an IETF is organized in Latin America, be >> sure that we would do our best to support a variety of efforts. >> >> >> Regards, >> as >> >> >> On 10/10/13 5:35 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: >>> This is a good initiative. I hope that the discussion about the draft >>> can be of help to CGI.br. >>> >>>> This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. >>>> prospecting >>>> grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are >>>> many >>>> resources available in public and private institutions of a country. >>>> All >>>> chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC >>>> allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people >>>> from Latin America. And so also in other countries. >>> >>> Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list. He may be able to comment >>> about the LACNIC side. >>> >>> It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest some >>> practical action. For example, getting grants might be related to the >>> problem of academic participation in the IETF. If the IETF Community >>> is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be >>> easier to get help from the IETF side. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > > From arturo.servin@gmail.com Sun Oct 13 06:43:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: diversity@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A0D21F9FD6 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.499, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h95R1ww4si5S for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E33721F9DA3 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gg0-f182.google.com with SMTP id h13so1173395ggd.41 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=pwTn3JzXN+WUx7piQQU3Ajqfaj6DOBNrYcW3dWL/bDs=; b=IrxccvijInOueztHpFYqEZnasxtFmrW+mkdCfx+dy1uuzdGZLumcEvDxQGOA/KRBe6 utgUiRfgnsTxhNDJU68pj+5gMPC/XMjX1fBXRsnoVOQna+QfB5emD6yairdy5oH6McZi tE+OBPB2ml/KeRuHbbfNne/K10qt4Itue/KlH+MLVitrKVyNvms+yfSTnGLVGmQtpGyH Iahfk6Hyhd95ZVwllvizwm6fxf9pEvUndcOmnI9FOz6MtkfCz4SgjNgwyF0HsJ12x2Ue QX1W0GsT7VUPpVxCbARP6N/Sx8O8Wkh2DU/IB3Bxiqk3clg1CQ8gFFs1aASHP+5cMIRG E4oQ== X-Received: by 10.236.210.49 with SMTP id t37mr22008068yho.46.1381671810044; Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (r186-49-7-52.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy. [186.49.7.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y46sm95002990yhy.18.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Oct 2013 06:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <525AA37F.1030501@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:43:27 -0200 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adiel Akplogan References: <5256E0AA.8060606@braga.eti.br> <6.2.5.6.2.20131010121623.0c9ca410@resistor.net> <52575089.6050207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060009020001050202030407" Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , Juliao Braga , S Moonesamy Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting people from under-represented regions into the IETF X-BeenThere: diversity@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Diversity open mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:43:56 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060009020001050202030407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adiel, I think that is the idea, to produce a draft addressing general issues. However we are still gathering ideas, problems, solutions, etc. AFAIK we do not have a timeline or milestones yet (may be Suresh or Kathleen may clarify) but we are advancing little by little. /as On 10/11/13 5:33 PM, Adiel Akplogan wrote: > As I already mentioned in one of my previous mail, I think it will be good (and better) to widen the scope of this kind of draft to address general issue and set general guideline (not focus just one initiative which is ISOC fellowship). At AFRINIC we also have some regional initiatives to support participation to IETF we have created back in 2006 an IETF fellowship through which we have sent 2 people selected from the community to the IETF, but unfortunately it has not produced the result we expected. We focus our effort right now on raising awareness within students and universities and our own staff. That being said we are very keen to do more and revive an improved felowship program. A draft like this can be of interest to our fellowship program team. > > - a. > On 2013-10-11, at 05:12 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > >> Can't say too much as we do not have a position to support >> scholarships for people to go to the IETF. What I can certainly say is >> that from LACNIC we are supporting other initiatives to encourage people >> to participate in the IETF. >> >> One of those is partnership with LACNOG to promote IETF work in the >> region in several in our events and with a Task Foce >> (ietf-lac@lacnog.org). Another very specific was to arrange a visit to >> the university to speak with students when Jari Arkko and Russ Housley >> visited Montevideo. Also, if an IETF is organized in Latin America, be >> sure that we would do our best to support a variety of efforts. >> >> >> Regards, >> as >> >> >> On 10/10/13 5:35 PM, S Moonesamy wrote: >>> This is a good initiative. I hope that the discussion about the draft >>> can be of help to CGI.br. >>> >>>> This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. prospecting >>>> grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are many >>>> resources available in public and private institutions of a country. All >>>> chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC >>>> allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people >>>> from Latin America. And so also in other countries. >>> Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list. He may be able to comment >>> about the LACNIC side. >>> >>> It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest some >>> practical action. For example, getting grants might be related to the >>> problem of academic participation in the IETF. If the IETF Community >>> is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be >>> easier to get help from the IETF side. >> _______________________________________________ >> diversity mailing list >> diversity@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity --------------060009020001050202030407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adiel,

    I think that is the idea, to produce a draft addressing general issues.

    However we are still gathering ideas, problems, solutions, etc.

    AFAIK we do not have a timeline or milestones yet (may be Suresh or Kathleen may clarify) but we are advancing little by little.

/as
On 10/11/13 5:33 PM, Adiel Akplogan wrote:
As I already mentioned in one of my previous mail, I think it will be good (and better) to widen the scope of this kind of draft to address general issue and set general guideline (not focus just one initiative which is ISOC fellowship). At AFRINIC we also have some regional initiatives to support participation to IETF we have created back in 2006 an IETF fellowship through which we have sent 2 people selected from the community to the IETF, but unfortunately it has not produced the result we expected. We focus our effort right now on raising awareness within students and universities and our own staff. That being said we are very keen to do more and revive an improved felowship program. A draft like this can be of interest to our fellowship program team.

- a.
On 2013-10-11, at 05:12 AM, Arturo Servin <arturo.servin@gmail.com> wrote:


   Can't say too much as we do not have a position to support
scholarships for people to go to the IETF. What I can certainly say is
that from LACNIC we are supporting other initiatives to encourage people
to participate in the IETF.

   One of those is partnership with LACNOG to promote IETF work in the
region in several in our events and with a Task Foce
(ietf-lac@lacnog.org). Another very specific was to arrange a visit to
the university to speak with students when Jari Arkko and Russ Housley
visited Montevideo. Also, if an IETF is organized in Latin America, be
sure that we would do our best to support a variety of efforts.


Regards,
as


On 10/10/13 5:35 PM, S Moonesamy wrote:

This is a good initiative.  I hope that the discussion about the draft
can be of help to CGI.br.


This is also a good participatory job for the chapters, i.e. prospecting
grants to increase participation in the IETF meetings, as there are many
resources available in public and private institutions of a country. All
chapter of ISOC in Latin America could work together for the LACNIC
allocate (for example) a small annual quota of participation of people
from Latin America. And so also in other countries.

Arturo is subscribed to this mailing list.  He may be able to comment
about the LACNIC side.

It helps if someone can explain what the problems are and suggest some
practical action.  For example, getting grants might be related to the
problem of academic participation in the IETF.  If the IETF Community
is convinced that what is being suggested is practical, it can be
easier to get help from the IETF side.

_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity


      

      

      

      
_______________________________________________
diversity mailing list
diversity@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity


    

    

  


--------------060009020001050202030407--

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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Aaron Yi DING , "leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com" 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:03:47 -0400
Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
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From Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk  Thu Oct 17 05:19:17 2013
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Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:19:07 +0100
From: Aaron Yi DING 
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Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
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Hi Kathleen,

I think the one below shall be Leaf's latest version.

Cheers,
Aaron

------------------------


Note Well
=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=A5=
=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89


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=E5=91=98

* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=
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* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=
=A8=E5=88=86

* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=
=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE

* IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=
=91=98

* RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD



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(updated by RFC 4879).

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=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=
=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82



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=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82



Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details.

=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=
=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82



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=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82



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=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82


------------------------


On 16/10/13 16:03, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:
> Hello,
>=20
> I wanted to make sure we have the latest version of the translation,=20
> does Leaf have that?
>=20
> Thank you,
> Kathleen
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:04 PM
> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com
> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; diversity@ietf.org; Moriarty, Kathleen
> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
>=20
> Hi Leaf,
>=20
> On 22/08/13 17:53, Leaf Yeh wrote:
>> Aaron - Could Leaf help to finalize your version so that it can used
>> soon by the community.
>>=20
>> Because Fuyou & you have no 'technical' argue (or revision suggestion)
>> on my translation version, so it has no update yet and has always
>> included in this thread.
>>=20
>=20
> Since we trust you that your latest version reflects our joint work,=20
> there is no such argument whatsoever :)
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Aaron - ...it is also nice to attach a brief statement clarifying its
>> status, i.e., non-legal.
>>=20
>> I believe Kathleen (or Jari) has an unified method (or standard) to
>> handle it.
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> Sounds good. Once such statement's ready, this task is complete.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Aaron
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Best Regards,
>> Leaf
>>=20
>=20
>>> PS. Here is the copy.
>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>> Note Well
>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for
>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any
>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered
>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in
>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made
>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to:
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=
=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=
=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C=
RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=
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=84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83
>>>> =E5=9B=B4
>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=
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=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99
>>>> =E4=BA=86
>>>> =EF=BC=9A
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The IETF plenary session
>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF
>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or
>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices
>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather
>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The
>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function
>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=
=90=E5=91=98
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=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=
=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=
=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC
>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=
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>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other
>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF
>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the
>>>> context of this notice.
>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=
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F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details.
>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=
=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF=20
>>>> rules
>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG
>>>> Statements.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=
=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=
=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=
=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio
>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to=20
>>>> the
>>>> public.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=
=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=
=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=
=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=
=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>> ********************************************************************
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:55 PM
>> To: fuyou.miao@huawei.com
>> Cc: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org;
>> kathleen.moriarty@emc.com
>> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
>>=20
>> On 12/08/13 02:33, Miaofuyou (Fuyou) wrote:
>>> I am OK with it, thank for your work!
>>>=20
>>> - Miao
>>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks Mr. Miao.
>>=20
>> Could Leaf help to finalize your version so that it can used soon by
>> the community. As we discussed, it is also nice to attach a brief
>> statement clarifying its status, i.e., non-legal.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Aaron
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leaf Yeh [mailto:leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:57 PM
>>> To: 'Aaron Yi DING'; Miaofuyou (Fuyou)
>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;
>>> diversity@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: Note Well translation - Chinese
>>>=20
>>> Aaron - Let's wait now for a response from Mr. Miao.
>>>=20
>>> Ok.
>>>=20
>>> Aaron - Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version?
>>>=20
>>> I sent it out (or attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th.
>>> It also shows below in this email.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Leaf
>>>=20
>>>=20
>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 PM
>>> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com
>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;
>>> diversity@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese
>>>=20
>>> Hi Leaf,
>>>=20
>>> I am fine with what you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from
>>> Mr.
>>> Miao.
>>>=20
>>> Meanwhile, could you kindly send us your synthesized version?
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Aaron
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 30/07/13 12:01, Leaf Yeh wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> The attached is my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the
>>>> professional translator has his =E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version=
, but I=20
>>>> suppose
>>>> we can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine (such as Google Translator) =
here.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> I used Beyond Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version &
>>>> Fuyou's version. The diff looks great, language is so flexible, but=20
>>>> I
>>>> suppose there are only some minor different understanding on some=20
>>>> key
>>>> words, including:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> a.       the title - Note Well =E2=80=93 =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5
>>>>=20
>>>> b.  IETF Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89
>>>>=20
>>>> c.  IETF activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96=
=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89
>>>>=20
>>>> and etc.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The key-typo in Aaron's version is
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=
=E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=
=83=BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=
=BA=8ERFC
>>>>=20
>>>> Which is right in Fuyou=E2=80=99s version.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>=20
>>>> Leaf
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>> Note Well
>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Any submission to the IETF intended by the Contributor for
>>>> publication as all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any
>>>> statement made within the context of an IETF activity is considered
>>>> an "IETF Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in
>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and electronic communications made
>>>> at any time or place, which are addressed to:
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=
=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=
=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8C=
RFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=
=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=
=84=E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83
>>>> =E5=9B=B4
>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=
=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9CIETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=
=80=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=
=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=
=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=
=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=
=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=
=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99
>>>> =E4=BA=86
>>>> =EF=BC=9A
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The IETF plenary session
>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG Any IETF
>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or
>>>> design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices
>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof Any Birds of a Feather
>>>> (BOF) session The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB The
>>>> RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function
>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=
=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=
=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=
=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=
=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=
=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=
=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=
=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=
=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=
=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and RFC
>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=
=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=
=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other
>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF
>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the
>>>> context of this notice.
>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=
=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=
=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=
=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=
=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=
=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IET=
F=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details.
>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=
=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF=20
>>>> rules
>>>> of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and IESG
>>>> Statements.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=
=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=
=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=
=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio
>>>> and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to=20
>>>> the
>>>> public.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=
=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=
=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=
=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=
=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>> ********************************************************************
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 AM
>>>> To: Aaron Yi DING
>>>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com;
>>>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - Chinese
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Thank you very much for your time and effort on this initiative!
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>=20
>>>> Kathleen
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 29, 2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING"
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> Please find the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent work.=20
>>>>> File
>>>>=20
>>>>> is attached. Comments and feedback are welcome.
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>=20
>>>>> Aaron
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> --------
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=
=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6=
=96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92=
=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80=
=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=
=8F=8A=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=
=E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95
>>>>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E
>>>>=20
>>>>> =EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E=E2=80=9DIETF
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=
=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E=
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=
=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=
=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=
=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6=
=89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> * IETF =E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=
=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=
=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=
=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=
=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E7=
=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>>=20
>>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=
=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=
=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=
=88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4=
=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=
=BD
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=
=E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=
=83=BD=E5=8F=97=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=
=BA=8ERFC
>>>>=20
>>>>> 4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=
=E8=BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=
=E5=92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=
=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=
=8E=E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=
=8A=A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=
=A8=E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=
=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=
=83=85=E6=99=AF=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D
>>>>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E
>>>>=20
>>>>> IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=
=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=
=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=
=85=A8=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=
=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E4=
=BA=8E
>>>>=20
>>>>> RFC =E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=
=E6=98=8E=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=
=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIET=
F=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=
=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=
=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=
=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 27/07/13 22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On 7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate so
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> that we have one translator and at least one reviewer?
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Dear Diversity Team,
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this=20
>>>>>>> e-mail).
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on the
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since
>>>>>>> Paris/IETF
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 63, so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he is
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk
>>>>>>> with him in person.
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Thank you, Fuyou, for your help!
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Spencer
>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>> Thank you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is an
>>>>=20
>>>>>> excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due
>>>>>> time.
>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>> See you soon in Berlin.
>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>=20
>>>>>> Aaron
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=
=BB=99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=
=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=
=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=
 =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=
=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=
=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=
=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=
=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=92=8C=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=
=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=81=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=
=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=
=E6=8B=AC=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E7=BB=99=EF=BC=9A
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    IESG=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=
=E7=9A=84=E5=85=B6=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    IETF=E5=86=85=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=
=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=ACIETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=
=A1=A8=E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5 =E4=BD=9C=E7=
=BB=84
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=
=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E5=AE=
=83=E7=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E9=82=AE=E4=
=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=
=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=
=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    IAB=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8=E5=85=
=B6=E7=9A=84IAB=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>    RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=80=85Internet-Draft=E5=8A=9F=
=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=
=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=97RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979 =EF=BC=88=E5=B7=
=B2=E4=B8=BARFC 4879=E6=89=80=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=AD=E7=A1=AE=
=E5=AE=9A
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8=BE=96=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=
=E8=A1=A8
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=
=BB=84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=
=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA=
=E4=B8=8D=E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE=
=A4=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7=
=9B=AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=
=8B=E9=A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4=
=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=
=9D=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=
=B7=E5=BE=97=E8=BF=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=
=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8=
=E9=83=A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF=
=99
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4=
=B8=AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80=
=9DRFC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=80=E5=AE=9A=
=E4=B9=89=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD=
=E5=B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> =E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6=
=96=87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE=
=B0=E5=BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=
=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82
>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> diversity mailing list
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org
>>>>=20
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>=20
>>>>>> diversity mailing list
>>>>=20
>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org
>>>>=20
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>>>=20
>>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> diversity mailing list
>>> diversity@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>> _______________________________________________
>> diversity mailing list
>> diversity@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>=20
>=20


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Thu Oct 17 05:35:41 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Aaron Yi DING 
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 08:34:13 -0400
Thread-Topic: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
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Cc: "diversity@ietf.org" , "leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com" , "fuyou.miao@huawei.com" 
Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
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From: "Leaf Yeh" 
To: "'Moriarty, Kathleen'" , "'Aaron Yi DING'" 
References: <12a83c6398d705802836a8f2c10b99fd@cam.ac.uk> 
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Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - Chinese
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------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CECD88.C61FEB30
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi =
Kathleen,
 
I got the following copy revisions (in bold type) for the =
Chinese translation after the additional =
reviews:
 
1.=C2=A0=C2=A0 
* The IETF plenary =
session
* The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IESG
* =
Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group =
or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF =
auspices
* Any IETF working group or portion =
thereof
* Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) =
session
* The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IAB
* =
The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function
 
* IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE=EF=BC=9B - added 1 punctuation mark =
in this sentence.
* IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98=EF=
=BC=9B- added 1 punctuation mark in this =
sentence.
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=
=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E3=80=81=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=
=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=
=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=
=B6=E4=BB=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=9B - changed 1 punctuation mark & added 1 punctuation mark =
in this sentence.
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=EF=BC=9B- added 1 punctuation mark in this =
sentence.
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=
=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=
=BC=9B- added 1 punctuation mark in this =
sentence.
* IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98=EF=
=BC=9B- added 1 punctuation mark in this =
sentence.
* RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E3=80=82- added 2 Chinese characters & 1 punctuation mark =
in this sentence.
 
 
2.=C2=A0 All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of =
RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E5=9D=87=
=E9=9C=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC =
5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82- changed 1 Chinese character in this =
sentence.
 
 
3.=C2=A0 All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of =
RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=
=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88=E5=8F=8A=
RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82- added 1 Chinese character in this =
sentence.
 
 
4.=C2=A0 Statements made outside of an IETF session, =
mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be =
input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions =
in the context of this notice.
 
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=
=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=
=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=
=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E6=9C=BA=E6=
=9E=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=
=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=
=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82- added 4 Chinese characters in this =
sentence.
 
 
 
The following is my updated edition for the =
translation:
 
 
---------------------------------
Note =
Well
=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
 
 
Any submission to the IETF =
intended by the Contributor for publication as all or part of an IETF =
Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made within the context of an =
IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contribution". Such =
statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well as written =
and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are =
addressed to:
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=
=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=
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=E4=BA=86=EF=BC=9A
 
* The IETF plenary =
session
 
* The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IESG
 
* Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, =
any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning =
under IETF auspices
 
* Any IETF working group or portion =
thereof
 
* Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) =
session
 
* The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IAB
 
* The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts =
function
 
* IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE=EF=BC=9B
 
* IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
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* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=EF=BC=9B
 
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=
=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=
=9B
 
* IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98=EF=BC=
=9B
 
* RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E3=80=82
 
 
All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 =
and RFC 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=
=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88=E5=8F=8ARFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82
 
 
Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or =
other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF =
activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context =
of this notice.
 
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=
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Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for =
details.
 
=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=
=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
 
 
A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all =
IETF rules of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and =
IESG Statements.
 
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=
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=99=E3=80=82
 
 
A participant in any IETF =
activity acknowledges that written, audio and video records of meetings =
may be made and may be available to the public.
 
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=
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=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
 
Sorry for a little late.
 
Pls. Aaron for the additional =
3rd-party endorsement. J
 
 
Best Regards,
Leaf
 
 
 
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Moriarty, Kathleen =
[mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 =
8:34 PM
To: Aaron Yi DING
Cc: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; =
fuyou.miao@huawei.com; diversity@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Diversity] =
Note Well translation - Chinese
 
Thank you, Aaron and =
Leaf!
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.=
ac.uk]
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:19 =
AM
To: =
Moriarty, Kathleen
Cc: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com; diversity@ietf.org=

Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - =
Chinese
 
Hi Kathleen,
 
I think the one below shall be =
Leaf's latest version.
 
Cheers,
Aaron
 
------------------------
 
 
Note =
Well
=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
 
 
Any submission to the IETF =
intended by the Contributor for publication as all or part of an IETF =
Internet-Draft or RFC and any statement made within the context of an =
IETF activity is considered an "IETF Contribution". Such =
statements include oral statements in IETF sessions, as well as written =
and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are =
addressed to:
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=
=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=
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IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=
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=E4=BA=86=EF=BC=9A
 
The IETF plenary =
session
 
The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IESG
 
Any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any =
working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under =
IETF auspices
 
Any IETF working group or portion =
thereof
 
Any Birds of a Feather (BOF) =
session
 
The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the =
IAB
 
The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts =
function
 
* IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE
 
* IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
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* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=
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=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
 
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
 
* =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=
=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
 
* IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
 
* RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD
 
 
 
All IETF Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 =
and RFC 3979 (updated by RFC 4879).
 
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=
=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82
 
 
 
Statements made outside of an IETF session, mailing list or =
other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF =
activity, group or function, are not IETF Contributions in the context =
of this notice.
 
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=
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=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=
=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=
=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82
 
 
 
Please consult RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for =
details.
 
=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=
=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
 
 
 
A participant in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all =
IETF rules of process, as documented in Best Current Practices RFCs and =
IESG Statements.
 
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=
=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=
=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=
=99=E3=80=82
 
 
 
A participant in any IETF =
activity acknowledges that written, audio and video records of meetings =
may be made and may be available to the public.
 
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=
=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=
=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=
=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
 
 
------------------------
 
 
On 16/10/13 16:03, Moriarty, =
Kathleen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I wanted to make sure we =
have the latest version of the translation, 
> does Leaf have =
that?
> 
> Thank =
you,
> Kathleen
> 
> -----Original =
Message-----
> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.=
ac.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:04 =
PM
> =
To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com
> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; diversity@ietf.org=
; Moriarty, Kathleen
> Subject: Re: [Diversity] =
Note Well translation - Chinese
> 
> Hi =
Leaf,
> 
> On 22/08/13 17:53, Leaf Yeh =
wrote:
>> Aaron - Could Leaf help to finalize your version =
so that it can used 
>> soon by the community.
>> 
>> Because Fuyou & you =
have no 'technical' argue (or revision
>> suggestion) on my =
translation version, so it has no update yet and =

>> has always included in this =
thread.
>> 
> 
> Since we trust you that =
your latest version reflects our joint work, 
> there is no such argument =
whatsoever :)
> 
> 
>> 
>> Aaron - ...it is also =
nice to attach a brief statement clarifying its 
>> status, i.e., =
non-legal.
>> 
>> I believe Kathleen (or =
Jari) has an unified method (or standard) to 
>> handle =
it.
>> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good. Once such =
statement's ready, this task is complete.
> 
> =
Cheers,
> Aaron
> 
> 
>> 
>> Best =
Regards,
>> Leaf
>> 
> 
>>> PS. Here is the =
copy.
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> **
>>>> =
******************************************************************
>>>> Note Well
>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any submission =
to the IETF intended by the Contributor for 
>>>> publication as =
all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any =

>>>> statement made within the context of an =
IETF activity is considered 
>>>> an "IETF =
Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in =

>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and =
electronic communications 
>>>> made at any =
time or place, which are addressed to:
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=
=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=
=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=
=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84
>>>> =E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83
>>>> =E5=9B=B4
>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=
=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9C=
IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=
=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8=
IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=
=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=
=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=
=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=
=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91
>>>> =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99
>>>> =E4=BA=86
>>>> =EF=BC=9A
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The IETF =
plenary session
>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf =
of the IESG Any IETF 
>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list =
itself, any working group or 
>>>> design team =
list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices =

>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof =
Any Birds of a Feather
>>>> (BOF) session =
The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB =

>>>> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts =
function
>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE
>>>> * =
IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=
=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=
=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=
=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=
=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=
=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> All IETF =
Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and =
RFC
>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC =
4879).
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=
=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Statements made =
outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other =

>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to =
be input to an IETF 
>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF =
Contributions in the 
>>>> context of this =
notice.
>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=
=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=
=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=
=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=
=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=
=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please consult =
RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details.
>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=
=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A participant =
in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF =

>>>> rules of process, as documented in Best =
Current Practices RFCs and 
>>>> IESG =
Statements.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=
=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=
=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=
=99=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A participant =
in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio =

>>>> and video records of meetings may be made =
and may be available to 
>>>> the =
public.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=
=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=
=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=
=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> **
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> *
> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original =
Message-----
>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.=
ac.uk]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:55 =
PM
>> To: fuyou.miao@huawei.com
>> Cc: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org=
; 
>> kathleen.moriarty@emc.com=

>> Subject: Re: [Diversity] Note Well translation - =
Chinese
>> 
>> On 12/08/13 02:33, =
Miaofuyou (Fuyou) wrote:
>>> I am OK with it, =
thank for your work!
>>> 
>>> - =
Miao
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks Mr. =
Miao.
>> 
>> Could Leaf help to =
finalize your version so that it can used soon by =

>> the community. As we discussed, it is also nice to =
attach a brief 
>> statement clarifying its status, i.e., =
non-legal.
>> 
>> =
Thanks,
>> Aaron
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original =
Message-----
>>> From: Leaf Yeh [mailto:leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail=
.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:57 =
PM
>>> To: 'Aaron Yi DING'; Miaofuyou =
(Fuyou)
>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com=
; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail=
.com; 
>>> diversity@ietf.org=

>>> Subject: RE: Note Well translation - =
Chinese
>>> 
>>> Aaron - Let's wait =
now for a response from Mr. Miao.
>>> 
>>> =
Ok.
>>> 
>>> Aaron - Meanwhile, =
could you kindly send us your synthesized =
version?
>>> 
>>> I sent it out (or =
attached it) in the my email of Jul. 30th.
>>> It also shows below =
in this email.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best =
Regards,
>>> Leaf
>>> 
>>> 
> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -----Original =
Message-----
>>> From: Aaron Yi DING [mailto:Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.=
ac.uk]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:52 =
PM
>>> To: leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; fuyou.miao@huawei.com
>>> Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com=
; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail=
.com; 
>>> diversity@ietf.org=

>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - =
Chinese
>>> 
>>> Hi =
Leaf,
>>> 
>>> I am fine with what =
you proposed. Let's wait now for a response from =

>>> Mr.
>>> =
Miao.
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, could =
you kindly send us your synthesized version?
>>> 
>>> =
Thanks,
>>> Aaron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/07/13 12:01, =
Leaf Yeh wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The attached is =
my version of the Chinese translation. Maybe the =

>>>> professional translator has his =
=E2=80=98professional=E2=80=99 version, but I 
>>>> suppose we =
can=E2=80=99t trust translator machine =
(such as Google
>>>> Translator) here.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I used Beyond =
Compare to make the Diff between the Aaron's version =

>>>> & Fuyou's version. The diff looks =
great, language is so flexible, 
>>>> but I suppose =
there are only some minor different understanding on =

>>>> some key words, =
including:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =
a.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the title - Note Well =
=E2=80=93 =
=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5
>>>> 
>>>> b.=C2=A0 IETF =
Contribution =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=89
>>>> 
>>>> c.=C2=A0 IETF =
activity =E2=80=93 IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=EF=BC=89
>>>> 
>>>> and =
etc.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The key-typo in =
Aaron's version is
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=
=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=
=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=97=
=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC
>>>> 
>>>> Which is right =
in Fuyou=E2=80=99s =
version.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best =
Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> =
Leaf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> PS. Gtalk - leaf.y.yeh@gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> **
>>>> =
******************************************************************
>>>> Note Well
>>>> =E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=88=E6=88=
=96 =E2=80=9C=E8=AF=B7=E5=91=A8=E7=9F=
=A5=E2=80=9D=EF=BC=89
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any submission =
to the IETF intended by the Contributor for 
>>>> publication as =
all or part of an IETF Internet-Draft or RFC and any =

>>>> statement made within the context of an =
IETF activity is considered 
>>>> an "IETF =
Contribution". Such statements include oral statements in =

>>>> IETF sessions, as well as written and =
electronic communications 
>>>> made at any =
time or place, which are addressed to:
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=9C=89=E6=84=
=8F=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E6=8A=
=95=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=EF=BC=88Internet-Draft=EF=BC=89=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=
=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E6=9C=BA=E6=9E=84=E7=BB=84
>>>> =E7=BB=87=E8=8C=83
>>>> =E5=9B=B4
>>>> =E5=86=85=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=
=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=BD=9C=E2=80=9C=
IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E2=80=9D=E3=80=
=82=E8=BF=99=E4=BA=9B=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=E6=97=A2=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E5=9C=A8=
IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=AD=E7=9A=
=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E4=B9=9F=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=
=E5=9C=A8=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E6=88=96=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E7=
=9A=84=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=EF=BC=
=9B=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=AC=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E5=92=8C=E5=8F=91
>>>> =E9=80=81=E7=BB=99
>>>> =E4=BA=86
>>>> =EF=BC=9A
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The IETF =
plenary session
>>>> The IESG, or any member thereof on behalf =
of the IESG Any IETF 
>>>> mailing list, including the IETF list =
itself, any working group or 
>>>> design team =
list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices =

>>>> Any IETF working group or portion thereof =
Any Birds of a Feather
>>>> (BOF) session =
The IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB =

>>>> The RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts =
function
>>>> * IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE
>>>> * =
IESG=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=
=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E8=87=AA=E8=BA=AB=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=
=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=
=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=
=96IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>> * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=
=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> * IAB=E6=88=96=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>> * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> All IETF =
Contributions are subject to the rules of RFC 5378 and =
RFC
>>>> 3979 (updated by RFC =
4879).
>>>> =E6=89=80=E6=9C=89IETF=E6=9D=A5=E6=90=9E=E5=9D=87=E9=9C=
=80=E6=BB=A1=E8=B6=B3RFC 5378=E3=80=81RFC 3979=EF=BC=88RFC 4879=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=89=E4=B8=
=AD=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E7=9A=84=E8=A6=81=E6=B1=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Statements made =
outside of an IETF session, mailing list or other =

>>>> function, that are clearly not intended to =
be input to an IETF 
>>>> activity, group or function, are not IETF =
Contributions in the 
>>>> context of this =
notice.
>>>> =E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E8=81=8C=E8=83=BD=
=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E7=9A=84=E9=99=88=E8=BF=B0=EF=BC=8C=E5=
=85=B6=E6=98=8E=E6=98=BE=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=89=E6=84=8F=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=
=BAIETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E8=BE=93=E5=85=
=A5=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8D=E6=98=AF=E6=9C=AC=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=A5=E4=B8=8A=
=E4=B8=8B=E6=96=87=E4=B8=AD=E8=BF=B0=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=9D=A5=E7=A8=BF=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please consult =
RFC 5378 and RFC 3979 for details.
>>>> =E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979=E5=8F=AF=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=
=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A participant =
in any IETF activity is deemed to accept all IETF =

>>>> rules of process, as documented in Best =
Current Practices RFCs and 
>>>> IESG =
Statements.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E8=A2=AB=E8=A7=86=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97=E6=89=80=
=E6=9C=89BCP=E7=B1=BBRFC=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E5=92=8CIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E8=A7=
=84=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=
=99=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A participant =
in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio =

>>>> and video records of meetings may be made =
and may be available to 
>>>> the =
public.
>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E7=BB=84=E7=BB=87=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=87=E8=AE=A4=E5=90=8C=EF=BC=8C=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=
=E5=88=B6=E4=BD=9C=E5=92=8C=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E4=B9=
=A6=E9=9D=A2=E7=9A=84=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=
=E9=A2=91=E7=9A=84=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E3=80=82
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> **
>>>> =
*******************************************************************<=
/o:p>
>>>> *
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original =
Message-----
>>>> From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@=
emc.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:24 =
AM
>>>> To: Aaron Yi DING
>>>> Cc: fuyou.miao@huawei.com; spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail=
.com; 
>>>> leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com; diversity@ietf.org=

>>>> Subject: Re: Note Well translation - =
Chinese
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you very =
much for your time and effort on this =
initiative!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best =
regards,
>>>> 
>>>> =
Kathleen
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my =
iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 29, =
2013, at 4:59 PM, "Aaron Yi DING"
>>>> <Aaron.Ding@cl.cam.ac.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
Hi,
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Please find =
the translation based on Mr. Miao's excellent =
work.
>>>>> File
>>>> 
>>>>> is =
attached. Comments and feedback are welcome.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>>> =
Aaron
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
--------
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E5=87=86=E5=88=99=E9=A1=BB=E7=9F=
=A5
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=94=B1=E8=B4=
=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=
=84=E8=AE=AE=E6=A1=88=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=E4=BD=9C=
=E4=B8=BAIETF=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E6=9F=90=E4=B8=80=E9=83=
=A8=E5=88=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=
=A8=E7=8E=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=81=9A=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84
>>>>> =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95
>>>>> =E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=
=8E=E2=80=9DIETF
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=
=AE=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E5=90=AB=
=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E8=80=85=E4=BA=8E=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=
=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E6=89=
=80=E5=8F=91=E8=A1=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=
=E4=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=
=AE=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=86=85=E5=AE=B9=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=EF=BC=9A
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> * IETF =
=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE * IESG =E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=
=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * IETF
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E5=90=ABIETF=E5=85=B6=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=
=97=E8=A1=A8=E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=
=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=A2=E9=98=9F=E7=9A=84=E9=82=AE=E4=
=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BB=
=BB=E4=BD=95=E7=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> 
>>>>> * =
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=
=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86 * =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=
=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84(BoF)=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE * IAB
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=
=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IAB=E7=9A=84=E6=88=90=E5=91=98 * RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E4=BB=
=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=91=E8=8D=
=89=E6=A1=88=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E6=8F=90=E4=BA=
=A4=E8=87=B3IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=A1=A3=E8=AE=
=AE=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8C=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=97=
=E5=88=B0 RFC 5278 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979(=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=E4=BA=8ERFC
>>>> 
>>>>> =
4879)=E5=88=B6=E5=AE=9A=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=
=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E7=AE=A1=E8=BE=96=E7=BA=A6=E6=9D=9F=E3=80=82=

>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E4=BA=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E5=92=8C=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E4=B9=8B=
=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=
=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=98=8E=E7=A1=AE=E8=A1=A8=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=8D=E7=BA=B3=E5=85=
=A5IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=EF=BC=8C=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E9=83=A8=E9=97=A8=E7=9A=84=
=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=BE=93=E5=85=A5=EF=BC=8C=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E5=
=87=86=E5=88=99=E6=89=80=E6=B6=89=E5=8F=8A=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E6=99=AF
>>>>> =
=E4=B8=8B=E4=B8=8D
>>>>> =E5=B1=9E=E4=BA=8E
>>>> 
>>>>> =
IETF=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=
=AE=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85 RFC 5378 =E5=92=8C RFC 3979 =E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=B7=E6=82=89=E6=9B=
=B4=E5=A4=9A=E7=9A=84=E7=BB=86=E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=
=8EIETF=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=B3=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=
=A8=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=BA=E5=91=98=E9=83=BD=E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=A8=
=E6=9D=83=E6=8E=A5=E5=8F=97IETF=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=
=99=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=
=E4=BA=8E
>>>> 
>>>>> RFC =
=E2=80=9CBest Current Practices=E2=80=9D =E5=8F=8A IESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> =
IETF=E5=8F=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E5=9D=
=87=E4=BB=A5=E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A=E7=9F=A5=EF=BC=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=A3=E5=B9=B6=
=E8=AE=A4=E5=8F=AF=E4=B8=8EIETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9B=B8=E5=85=
=B3=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=EF=BC=8C=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=
=E9=A2=91=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=
=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 27/07/13 =
22:07, Aaron Yi DING wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> On =
27/07/13 20:21, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> On =
7/22/2013 7:34 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> =
Thank you very much Aaron & Spencer! Could you two coordinate =

>>>>>>>> so
>>>> 
>>>>>>>> =
that we have one translator and at least one =
reviewer?
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
Dear Diversity Team,
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> I =
have the translation below from Fuyou Miao (cc: on this =

>>>>>>> =
e-mail).
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> I =
know that Aaron and Leaf had offered to read and comment on =

>>>>>>> the
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
initial translation. Fuyou has been coming to IETFs since =

>>>>>>> =
Paris/IETF
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 63, =
so some of you from INT and RTG may know him, and he =
is
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
registered to attend IETF 87 this week, if it is helpful to talk =

>>>>>>> with him in =
person.
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
Thank you, Fuyou, for your help!
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
Spencer
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank =
you Spencer and Mr. MIAO Fuyou! The current version is =
an
>>>> 
>>>>>> =
excellent start. I will go through it and provide feedback in due =

>>>>>> time.
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> See you =
soon in Berlin.
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> =
Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>>>> =
Aaron
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E6=B3=A8=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=
=B9
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=
=AE=E8=80=85=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99IETF=E4=BB=A5=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E7=9A=
=84=E6=96=87=E7=A8=BF=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=9C
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E4=B8=BAIETF=E7=9A=84=E4=BA=92=E8=81=94=E7=BD=
=91=E8=8D=89=E6=A1=88=E5=92=8CRFC=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=80=E9=83=A8=E5=88=
=86=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=85=A8 =E9=83=A8=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=A5
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=9C=
=A8IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E7=8E=
=AF=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA =E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=9D=87=E8=A2=
=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AF=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9DIETF=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=
=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82=E6=AD=A4=E7=B1=BB=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=

>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E4=B8=8A=E7=9A=
=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=E5=92=8C=E5=9C=B0=E7=82=B9=E6=89=80=
=E4=BD=9C=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=A3=E5=A4=B4=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E3=80=81=E4=
=B9=A6=E9=9D=A2=E5=92=8C=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=80=9A=E8=AE=AF=E5=86=85=E5=AE=
=B9=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E7=BB=99=EF=BC=9A
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IETF=E5=85=A8=E4=BD=93=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=
=AE
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IESG=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=
=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8IESG=E7=9A=84=E5=85=B6=E6=88=90=E5=91=
=98
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IETF=E5=86=85=E7=9A=84=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=
=95=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E5=8C=85 =E6=8B=ACIETF=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=
=A8=E6=9C=AC=E8=BA=AB=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5 =E4=BD=9C=E7=BB=84
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E5=92=8C=E8=AE=BE=E8=AE=A1=E5=9B=
=A2=E9=98=9F=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8=EF=BC=8C=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E5=AE=83=E7=94=B1IETF=E6=94=AF=E6=8C=81=E7=9A=84=E5=85=
=B6=E4=BB=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=B7=A5=E4=BD=
=9C=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B1=E5=90=
=8C=E5=85=B4=E8=B6=A3=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=EF=BC=88BoF=EF=BC=89=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
IAB=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8A=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=
=95=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8=E5=85=B6=E7=9A=84IAB=E6=88=90=E5=91=98
>>>> 
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
RFC=E7=BC=96=E8=BE=91=E6=88=96=E8=80=
=85Internet-Draft=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=
=84
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E6=89=80=E6=9C=89=E7=9A=84=E2=80=
=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=97=
RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979 =EF=BC=88=E5=B7=B2=E4=B8=BARFC 4879=E6=89=80=E6=9B=B4=E6=96=B0=EF=BC=
=89=E4=B8=AD=E7=A1=AE=E5=AE=9A
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E7=9A=84=E8=A7=84=E5=88=99=E6=89=
=80=E7=AE=A1=E8=BE=96=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E5=9C=A8IETF=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E3=80=81=E9=82=
=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=88=97=E8=A1=A8
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E6=88=96=E5=85=B6=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=
=96=E5=8A=9F=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F=E7=BB=84=E4=B9=8B=E5=A4=96=E6=89=80=E4=BD=9C=
=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=EF=BC=8C=E5=85=B6=E5=B7=B2=E6=B8=85=E6=
=99=B0=E8=A1=A8=E8=BF=B0=E4=B8=BA=E4=B8=8D=E4=BB=A5=E4=BD=9C=E4=B8=BAIETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E3=80=81=E7=BE=
=A4=E7=BB=84=E6=88=96=E8=80=85=E5=8A=9F
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E8=83=BD=E5=B0=8F =E7=BB=84=E7=9A=84=E8=BE=93=E5=85=
=A5=E4=B8=BA=E7=9B=AE=E7=9A=84=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=9C=A8=E6=AD=A4=E6=B3=A8=
=E6=84=8F=E4=BA=8B=E9=A1=B9=E7=9A=84=E6=83=85=E5=A2=83=E4=B8=8B=E5=B9=B6=E4=
=B8=8D=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=98=AFIETF=E2=80=9C=E8=B4=A1=E7=8C=AE=E6=96=
=87=E4=BB=B6=E2=80=9D=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E8=AF=B7=E5=8F=82=E9=98=85RFC 5378=E5=92=8CRFC 3979=E4=BB=A5=E8=8E=B7=E5=BE=97=E8=BF=
=9B=E4=B8=80=E6=AD=A5=E7=BB=86 =E8=8A=82=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD =E8=A2=AB=E8=AE=A4=E4=B8=BA=E6=8E=
=A5=E5=8F=97=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8IETF=E7=9A=84=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=
=84=E5=88=99=EF=BC=8C=E8=BF=99
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E4=BA=9B=E6=B5=81=E7=A8=8B=E8=A7=
=84=E5=88=99=E5=9C=A8=E5=A4=9A=E4=B8=AA=E2=80=9C=E6=9C=80=E4=BC=98=E5=BD=93=
=E5=89=8D=E5=AE=9E=E8=B7=B5=E2=80=9DRFC=E4=BB=A5=E5=8F=8AIESG=E5=A3=B0=E6=98=8E=E4=B8=AD=E6=89=
=80=E5=AE=9A=E4=B9=89=E3=80=82
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
IETF=E6=B4=BB=E5=8A=A8=E7=9A=84=E5=8F=
=82=E4=B8=8E=E8=80=85=E9=83=BD=E5=B7=B2 =E8=A2=AB=E5=91=8A
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
=E7=9F=A5=E5=92=8C=E7=90=86=E8=A7=
=A3=E4=BC=9A=E8=AE=AE=E7=9A=84=E6=96=87=E6=9C=AC=E3=80=81=E9=9F=B3=E9=A2=91=
=E5=92=8C=E8=A7=86=E9=A2=91=E8=AE=B0=E5=BD=95=E9=83=BD=E5=8F=AF=E8=83=BD=E6=
=88=96=E5=8F=AF=E4=BB=A5=E5=90=91=E5=85=AC=E4=BC=97=E5=85=AC=E5=BC=80=E3=80=
=82
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
_______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>>>>> =
diversity mailing list
>>>> 
>>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org=

>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/diversity
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> =
_______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>>>> =
diversity mailing list
>>>> 
>>>>>> diversity@ietf.org=

>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/diversity
>>>> 
>>>>> =
<ietf-note-well-chinese.txt>
>>> =
_______________________________________________
>>> diversity mailing =
list
>>> diversity@ietf.org=

>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/diversity
>> =
_______________________________________________
>> diversity mailing =
list
>> diversity@ietf.org=

>> https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/diversity
> 
> 
 
 

------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CECD88.C61FEB30--


From spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 08:36:38 2013
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:36:19 -0500
From: Spencer Dawkins 
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To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" ,  "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'S Moonesamy' ,  "diversity@ietf.org" 
References: <05b101ceb9da$fb0e98d0$f12bca70$@olddog.co.uk> 
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Subject: Re: [Diversity] ISOC fellowship - Attracting new people and work into the IETF
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On 9/25/2013 8:35 AM, Moriarty, Kathleen wrote:
> Time zones are really difficult.  If we have remote groups gathering, what if they went through a eerie of recorded sessions post-meeting in their own time zone?  This might be possible with an area focused local chapter.  We could start local chapters and advertise the meeting (if we ran an experiment) through social media or related organized groups for the target audience.  I think this would require a volunteer facilitator in the room that can help people get up-to-speed on participating.  They also have to feel comfortable to participate (feedback on a draft, asking questions on a list, participating in a poll, etc.).

I've been meaning to follow up on this for more than a month, and now 
have two minutes to do so.

"Recorded sessions post-meeting in your time zone" isn't WRONG, 
especially if there's a volunteer coordinator (whether in the room or 
not), and especially to get started. So, after the first step, I'm 
wondering what a next step might be.

Kathleen, et al, would you think the next step would be people attending 
remotely in the middle of the night, or doing a pre-meeting in the local 
time zone, or something else I'm not thinking of?

Spencer

From vinayakh@gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 12:30:13 2013
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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 01:00:11 +0530
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From: Vinayak Hegde 
To: IAB Chair , "diversity@ietf.org" 
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Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer , IETF Discussion Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Diversity] IETF must use only UTC in its announcements (Was: Live Streaming of the IETF 88 Technical Plenary
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--047d7b86c7489bf97704e9fa5c2e
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On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 7:49 PM, IAB Chair  wrote:

> Stephane:
>
> I think that the use of the local timezone make it easy for people to look
> it up on the agenda.  I do agree that inclusion of UTC as well would have
> been very helpful.  I'll try to remember to do that in the future.
>
> Russ
>


Why is it so hard to even mention the offset of the local time from UTC if
not anything else on the Agenda itself ? Everyone is aware of the offset
from the timezone they are in but may not be aware of the local timezone
offsets during the time of the year (think day-light savings) and the place
(several countries have different timezones so different cities within same
country can have different times).

I think the problem here is of the mindset within the IETF which looks at
IETF meetings as local physical meetings rather than a place of
congregation of people (whether physical or remote) at certain point in
time. If IETF really means to encourage wider participation (both in number
and diversity), then they need to make small changes such as these to
accommodate remote participants more. The change should start right from
the very top if this were to work.

-- Vinayak

--047d7b86c7489bf97704e9fa5c2e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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On W=
ed, Oct 30, 2013 at 7:49 PM, IAB Chair <iab-chair@iab.org> w=
rote:


Stephane:



I think that the use of the local timezone make it easy for people to look =
it up on the agenda. =A0I do agree that inclusion of UTC as well would have=
 been very helpful. =A0I'll try to remember to do that in the future.



Russ
=A0

Why is it so hard to=
 even mention the offset of the local time from UTC if not anything else on=
 the Agenda itself ? Everyone is aware of the offset from the timezone they=
 are in but may not be aware of the local timezone offsets during the time =
of the year (think day-light savings) and the place (several countries have=
 different timezones so different cities within same country can have diffe=
rent times).


I think the problem here is of the mindset within the IETF w=
hich looks at IETF meetings as local physical meetings rather than a place =
of congregation of people (whether physical or remote) at certain point in =
time. If IETF really means to encourage wider participation (both in number=
 and diversity), then they need to make small changes such as these to acco=
mmodate remote participants more. The change should start right from the ve=
ry top if this were to work.


-- Vinayak


--047d7b86c7489bf97704e9fa5c2e--

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Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:15:02 -0700
To: Spencer Dawkins , "Moriarty, Kathleen" , adrian@olddog.co.uk
From: S Moonesamy 
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Subject: Re: [Diversity] Attracting new people and work into the IETF
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Hi Spencer,
At 08:36 29-10-2013, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
>Kathleen, et al, would you think the next step would be people 
>attending remotely in the middle of the night, or doing a 
>pre-meeting in the local time zone, or something else I'm not thinking of?

It is a matter of what the IETF wants to achieve.  Does it want 
participation or attendance?  Please note that the question is not 
addressed to you.

My uninformed suggestion would be to favor local time zone.  It is 
not possible to say much about next steps as there aren't any 
resources available.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy