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From: Marco Liebsch <Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu>
To: Jouni <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "karagian@cs.utwente.nl" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:53:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment	(single-operator and cross-operator?)
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Hi Jouni, Georgios,

please see inline.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Jouni
>Sent: Samstag, 26. Mai 2012 16:13
>To: karagian@cs.utwente.nl
>Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single=
-
>operator and cross-operator?)
>
>
>Hi,
>
>On May 25, 2012, at 3:57 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
><karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jouni,
>>
>> Answering to your question(s):
>>
>>> At least we need to make a
>>> distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it the
>>> MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current) IP
>>> level anchor changing across administrative domains.
>>
>> Georgios: Please note that I was referring to both cases!
>
>Since I have difficulties believing b) would be a successful requirement
>without slicing it into different use cases, I would ask you to list up wh=
at use
>cases you think b) is needed for and what assumptions there are for IP
>anchoring & possible tunnel state.

I think it helps if that request is moved to a lower level and discussed
on the basis of handover between administrative domains versus
roaming. Roaming does not imply any requirement on IP
address continuity, I think the only requirement here is about
authentication and authorization when the MN gets assigned
an anchor in the visited network (along with a local IP address).
Handover may imply some demand for IP address continuity,
which should be handled by signaling according to the DMM solution.
Again, more an issue of available trust and security associations
to protect signaling.
..Unless inter-domain handling requires a dedicated functional
entity for DMM, which I don't hope.

If needed at all, what about placing a requirement just like:=20
'The DMM solution must not break when being deployed between trusted
administrative domains and should allow inter-working with the security
measures deployed between these domains.'

marco





>
>- Jouni
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Georgios
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:49
>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
>>> Cc: pierrick.seite@orange.com; h.anthony.chan@huawei.com;
>>> dmm@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 25, 2012, at 3:21 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
>>> <karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Pierrick,
>>>>
>>>> Please see in line!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
>>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:00
>>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
>>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> As an operator guy, I will not dispute a use-case dealing with roamin=
g :-).
>>>>> However I think that it is out of the scope of our considerations
>>>>> here (I mean, from the IETF standpoint). IMU, the goal of DMM is
>>>>> not to specify a full system architecture (to which statement (1)
>>>>> below seems to refer); the goal of DMM is, in a first stage, to
>>>>> assess the use of legacy protocols in a distributed anchoring
>deployment.
>>>>
>>>> Georgios: Not really defining a system architecture, but more the
>>>> protocol
>>> framework! The definition of the "distribution anchoring deployment"
>>> borders is part of that!
>>>
>>> From my point of view, the protocol solutions (even what we have
>>> today in mobility area) do not prohibit cross administrative domain
>>> mobility. It is more a deployment decision loaded with non-techninal fa=
r
>from trivial issues.
>>>
>>> I do not like seeing this as a requirement. At least we need to make
>>> a distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it
>>> the MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current)
>>> IP level anchor changing across administrative domains.
>>>
>>> - Jouni
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Moreover, statement (2) below, is more a solution hints than a
>>> requirement.
>>>>> Typically, (2) is about HA/LMA relocation which may be, or not, a
>>>>> solution to meet Anthony's req#1. So, IMHO, req#1 addresses your
>>> concern.
>>>>
>>>> Georgios: I think that the current description of REQ-1 is not
>>>> really
>>> addressing my concern!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Georgios
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's only my opinion; let's see what others think.
>>>>>
>>>>> BR,
>>>>> Pierrick
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>>> De : karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl] Envoy=E9=
 :
>>>>>> vendredi 25 mai 2012 12:28 =C0 : SEITE Pierrick RD-RESA-REN;
>>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : RE: [DMM]
>>> draft
>>>>>> requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator and
>>>>>> cross-operator?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pierrick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The goal of such a requirement is to emphasize that the DMM
>>>>>> protocol(s) that will be designed/specified by the DMM WG should
>>>>>> be agnostic to whether users are roaming/moving into wireless
>>>>>> coverage
>>>>>> area(s) managed by either one single operator or by more than one
>>>>> operators.
>>>>>> I think that this will have an impact on some of  the requirements
>>>>>> listed already by Anthony!
>>>>>> Security association is one such requirement, other requirements
>>>>>> are related to for example the possibility of the DMM protocol(s)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> (1) easily use the user profile and mobility information when
>>>>>> users are roaming away from their home operator, (2) use and
>>>>>> support seamless, real time and dynamic change of the mobility
>>>>>> anchors that could be located in different communication area(s)
>>>>>> managed  by different operators.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Georgios
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 9:49
>>>>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
>>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
>>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Georgios,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems to me that the requirement: "need of supporting both
>>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management" is a
>>>>>>> deployment requirement. I understand the requirement but I do not
>>>>>>> see how to "translate it" into an IP generic wording. FSo,
>>>>>>> fcusing only on
>>>>>> protocols (as we
>>>>>>> are supposed to) how would you reformulate your requirement? Is
>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>> about "capability to establish security associations between
>>>>>>> mobility
>>>>>> entities"
>>>>>>> would be acceptable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Br,
>>>>>>> Pierrick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>>>>> De : dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De la
>>> part
>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>> karagian@cs.utwente.nl Envoy=E9 : vendredi 25 mai 2012 07:49 =C0 :
>>>>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : Re: [DMM]
>>>>>>>> draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> cross-operator?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Anthony,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not sure whether it can be incorporated in REQ-4 or whether
>>>>>>>> it could be considered as being an additional requirement!
>>>>>>>> I am in favour of adding a new requirement that satisfies this
>>>>>> issue!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Georgios
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Van: h chan [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
>>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 19:36
>>>>>>>> Aan: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
>>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Onderwerp: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
>>>>>> deployment
>>>>>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Georgios,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you think whether REQ-4 may be a better place to discuss.
>>>>>>>> REQ-4
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> talking about compatibility. It already includes compatibility
>>>>>>>> with other (such as 3GPP) mobility protocols. We can check what
>>>>>>>> else are needed there for cross-operator mobility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you agree, we can move this cross-operator issue over the
>>>>>>>> REQ-4 thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:06 AM
>>>>>>>> To: h chan
>>>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
>>>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Anthony, Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> During the last DMM meeting in Paris, I have raised  the issue
>>>>>>>> of cross-operator mobility management support.
>>>>>>>> Not sure if this issue can be satisfied by incorporating it into
>>>>>> REQ-1
>>>>>>>> Distributed deployment, or if it will be needed to create an
>>>>>>>> additional requirement that incorporates the need of supporting
>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Georgios
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Van: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [dmm-bounces@ietf.org] namens h
>>> chan
>>>>>>>> [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
>>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 1:20
>>>>>>>> Aan: Jouni; Peter McCann
>>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
>>>>>> deployment
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-1 below:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment
>>>>>>>> IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by
>>>>>>>> DMM SHALL enable a distributed deployment of mobility
>management
>>>>>>>> of IP sessions so that the traffic can be routed in an optimal
>>>>>>>> manner without traversing centrally deployed mobility anchors.
>>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1)
>>>>>>>> The goals of this requirement are to match mobility deployment
>>>>>>>> with current trend in network evolution: more cost and resource
>>>>>> effective
>>>>>>>> to cache and distribute contents when combining distributed
>>>>>>>> anchors with caching systems (e.g., CDN); improve scalability;
>>>>>>>> avoid single point of failure; mitigate threats being focused on
>>>>>>>> a centrally deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mobility
>anchor.
>>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
>>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
>>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
>>>>>>>> route,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the problem is especially manifested when accessing a local or
>>>>>> cache
>>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
>>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
>>>>>>>> centralized mobility management becomes non-optimal as network
>>>>>>>> architecture evolves and flattens.
>>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility context
>>>>>>>> maintenance Setting up such special routes and maintaining the
>>>>>>>> mobility context including the tunnel state for each MN is more
>>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large number
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> MNs.
>>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
>>> scalable.
>>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized anchoring
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
>>>>>>>> distributed system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:23 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Peter McCann
>>>>>>>> Cc: h chan; dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
>>> deployment
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 18, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Jouni,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> jouni korhonen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Breaking the silence..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2012, at 8:55 PM, h chan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment IP mobility, network access and
>>>>>>>>>>> routing solutions provided by
>>>>>> DMM
>>>>>>>>>>> SHALL enable the functions of mobility management of IP
>>>>>> sessions
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> distributed so that the traffic is routed in an optimal
>>>>>>>>>>> manner
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>> relying on centrally deployed anchors.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Few comments/questions..
>>>>>>>>>> o "SHALL enable the functions of mobility management" does
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> imply
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> DMM "solution" must always involve or extend a mobility
>>>>>> protocol?
>>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>>>> that should not be a SHALL requirement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To the extent that DMM provides an "IP mobility...solution" I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> it does
>>>>>>>>> involve or extend a mobility protocol.  However, I don't think
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> requirement
>>>>>>>>> implies that we will necessarily extend an existing mobility
>>>>>>>> protocol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Excerpt from the charter:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   on managing the use of care-of versus home addresses in an
>>>>>>>>   efficient manner for different types of communications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just making sure the right flavor or address is used does not
>>>>>>>> necessarily extend or require any mobility protocol support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> o "centrally deployed anchors" what if the access network
>>>>>> routing
>>>>>>>>>> is  laid  out in a way that even pure IP routing would lead
>>>>>> packets
>>>>>>>>>> to go  through a central site/edge router? Doesn't that lead
>>>>>>>>>> to similar  deficiencies than with mobility anchors?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It does indeed, which is why a good network deployment will
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> redundant
>>>>>>>>> back-up paths throughout the network.  Unfortunately, it is
>>>>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> provide redundancy when the path involves tunnel state at an
>>>>>> anchor
>>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1) The goals of this requirement
>>>>>>>>>>> are to match mobility deployment with current trend in
>>>>>>>>>>> network evolution:
>>>>>>>>>>> more cost and resource effective to cache and distribute
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> combining distributed anchors with caching systems (e.g.,
>>>>>>>>>>> CDN); improve scalability; reduce signaling overhead; avoid
>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> failure; mitigate threats being focused on a centrally
>>>>>>>>>>> deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mobility anchor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Reduce signaling overhead.. is a very good goal. However, if
>>>>>>>>>> any DMM solution builds on top of an existing mobility
>>>>>>>>>> protocol that hardly reduces anything. Also if setting up
>>>>>>>>>> optimal routes
>>>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>> establishing new tunnels, signaling is bound to increase. I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>> here "does not increase the amount of present signaling" and
>>>>>>>>>> the aim for solutions that would reduce it somehow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It should be possible to completely avoid mobility management
>>>>>>>> signaling
>>>>>>>>> when the MN is stationary or doesn't need a fixed address.  I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>> that reduces signaling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From that point view ok. Extra care is then needed that one does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> move the signaling to another layer.. take DSMIP6 (S2c) as an
>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>>> which avoids BU/BA exchange but then expanded the IKE signaling
>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
>>>>>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
>>>>>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
>>>>>> route,
>>>>>>>>>>> and the problem is especially manifested when accessing a
>>>>>>>>>>> local
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> cache
>>>>>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
>>>>>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
>>>>>>>>>>> centralized mobility management can become non-optimal as
>>>>>> Network
>>>>>>>>>>> architecture evolves and become more flattened.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> More flat is kind of superfluous.. take e.g. EPS example. You
>>>>>> have,
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> an optimal case, an eNodeB connected directly to a combined
>>>>>>> SGW/PGW
>>>>>>>>>> from the user plane point of view. And the SGW/PGW you can
>>>>>> allocate
>>>>>>>>>> close to you eNodeB based on its topological location. How you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> make that more flat? SGW relocation changes the situation a
>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> still..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Putting an SGW/PGW (or an LGW) inside in eNB would indeed be a
>>>>>>>> maximally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Putting SGW/PGW into eNodeB is not too realistic for a wider are
>>>>>>>> deployment. LGWs we already got out there but the mobility in
>>>>>>>> that case ain't too great as far as I remember.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> flat architecture.  However, we would then need to deal with a
>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> anchor point during the life of a session, which is something
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>> contemplated by 3GPP.  That is exactly the area that DMM should
>>>>>>>>> focus
>>>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>>>> IMHO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With a cost of additional signaling and new tunnel state?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility
>>>>>>>>>>> context maintenance Setting up such special routes and
>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining the mobility context for each MN is more
>>>>>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large number =
of
>MNs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can I assume the mobility context involves a possible per MN
>>>>>> tunnel
>>>>>>>>>> state?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think the per-MN tunnel state is part of the mobility
>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>>> being talked about here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Jouni
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Pete
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
>>>>>> scalable.
>>>>>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized anchoring
>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
>>>>>>>>>>> distributed system.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (The above is drafted with contributions, inputs and
>>>>>> discussions
>>>>>>>>>>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments
>>>>>>>>>>> are most
>>>>>>>>>>> welcome.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Jouni
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
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From karagian@cs.utwente.nl  Tue Jun  5 08:22:44 2012
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From: <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
To: <Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:22:37 +0000
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References: <FF1A9612A94D5C4A81ED7DE1039AB80F26C6D177@EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl>,  <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C1DE04EBB@SZXEML505-MBS.china.huawei.com> <FF1A9612A94D5C4A81ED7DE1039AB80F26C6D457@EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl> <843DA8228A1BA74CA31FB4E111A5C462025AC262@ftrdmel0.rd.francetelecom.fr> <FF1A9612A94D5C4A81ED7DE1039AB80F26C6D5B5@EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl> <843DA8228A1BA74CA31FB4E111A5C462025AC2EC@ftrdmel0.rd.francetelecom.fr> <FF1A9612A94D5C4A81ED7DE1039AB80F26C6D656@EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl> <23FDCF80-B4DC-44B1-AEC8-0CA01F033DB1@gmail.com> <FF1A9612A94D5C4A81ED7DE1039AB80F26C6D67C@EXMBX04.ad.utwente.nl> <39FF7960-3478-4B05-A4EF-9D81B8C8B17F@gmail.com> <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26D24DEC096@Polydeuces.office.hd>
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Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment	(single-operator and cross-operator?)
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Hi Marco,

Your proposal satisfies my concern! I agree with your proposed additional r=
equirement:

 "The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted
administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security
measures deployed between these domains."

Best regards,
Georgios



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Liebsch [mailto:Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu]
> Sent: dinsdag 5 juni 2012 15:54
> To: Jouni; Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>=20
> Hi Jouni, Georgios,
>=20
> please see inline.
>=20
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >Jouni
> >Sent: Samstag, 26. Mai 2012 16:13
> >To: karagian@cs.utwente.nl
> >Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >(single- operator and cross-operator?)
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >On May 25, 2012, at 3:57 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
> ><karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jouni,
> >>
> >> Answering to your question(s):
> >>
> >>> At least we need to make a
> >>> distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it
> >>> the MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current)
> >>> IP level anchor changing across administrative domains.
> >>
> >> Georgios: Please note that I was referring to both cases!
> >
> >Since I have difficulties believing b) would be a successful
> >requirement without slicing it into different use cases, I would ask
> >you to list up what use cases you think b) is needed for and what
> >assumptions there are for IP anchoring & possible tunnel state.
>=20
> I think it helps if that request is moved to a lower level and discussed =
on the
> basis of handover between administrative domains versus roaming. Roaming
> does not imply any requirement on IP address continuity, I think the only
> requirement here is about authentication and authorization when the MN
> gets assigned an anchor in the visited network (along with a local IP add=
ress).
> Handover may imply some demand for IP address continuity, which should
> be handled by signaling according to the DMM solution.
> Again, more an issue of available trust and security associations to prot=
ect
> signaling.
> ..Unless inter-domain handling requires a dedicated functional entity for
> DMM, which I don't hope.
>=20
> If needed at all, what about placing a requirement just like:
> 'The DMM solution must not break when being deployed between trusted
> administrative domains and should allow inter-working with the security
> measures deployed between these domains.'
>=20
> marco
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> >- Jouni
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Georgios
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:49
> >>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> >>> Cc: pierrick.seite@orange.com; h.anthony.chan@huawei.com;
> >>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 25, 2012, at 3:21 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
> >>> <karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Pierrick,
> >>>>
> >>>> Please see in line!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
> >>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:00
> >>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
> >>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As an operator guy, I will not dispute a use-case dealing with roam=
ing
> :-).
> >>>>> However I think that it is out of the scope of our considerations
> >>>>> here (I mean, from the IETF standpoint). IMU, the goal of DMM is
> >>>>> not to specify a full system architecture (to which statement (1)
> >>>>> below seems to refer); the goal of DMM is, in a first stage, to
> >>>>> assess the use of legacy protocols in a distributed anchoring
> >deployment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Georgios: Not really defining a system architecture, but more the
> >>>> protocol
> >>> framework! The definition of the "distribution anchoring deployment"
> >>> borders is part of that!
> >>>
> >>> From my point of view, the protocol solutions (even what we have
> >>> today in mobility area) do not prohibit cross administrative domain
> >>> mobility. It is more a deployment decision loaded with non-techninal
> >>> far
> >from trivial issues.
> >>>
> >>> I do not like seeing this as a requirement. At least we need to make
> >>> a distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it
> >>> the MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current)
> >>> IP level anchor changing across administrative domains.
> >>>
> >>> - Jouni
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moreover, statement (2) below, is more a solution hints than a
> >>> requirement.
> >>>>> Typically, (2) is about HA/LMA relocation which may be, or not, a
> >>>>> solution to meet Anthony's req#1. So, IMHO, req#1 addresses your
> >>> concern.
> >>>>
> >>>> Georgios: I think that the current description of REQ-1 is not
> >>>> really
> >>> addressing my concern!
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Georgios
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's only my opinion; let's see what others think.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BR,
> >>>>> Pierrick
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>>>>> De : karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> Envoy=E9 :
> >>>>>> vendredi 25 mai 2012 12:28 =C0 : SEITE Pierrick RD-RESA-REN;
> >>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : RE: [DMM]
> >>> draft
> >>>>>> requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator and
> >>>>>> cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Pierrick,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The goal of such a requirement is to emphasize that the DMM
> >>>>>> protocol(s) that will be designed/specified by the DMM WG should
> >>>>>> be agnostic to whether users are roaming/moving into wireless
> >>>>>> coverage
> >>>>>> area(s) managed by either one single operator or by more than one
> >>>>> operators.
> >>>>>> I think that this will have an impact on some of  the
> >>>>>> requirements listed already by Anthony!
> >>>>>> Security association is one such requirement, other requirements
> >>>>>> are related to for example the possibility of the DMM protocol(s)
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> (1) easily use the user profile and mobility information when
> >>>>>> users are roaming away from their home operator, (2) use and
> >>>>>> support seamless, real time and dynamic change of the mobility
> >>>>>> anchors that could be located in different communication area(s)
> >>>>>> managed  by different operators.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com
> >>>>>>> [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
> >>>>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 9:49
> >>>>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
> >>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Georgios,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It seems to me that the requirement: "need of supporting both
> >>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management" is a
> >>>>>>> deployment requirement. I understand the requirement but I do
> >>>>>>> not see how to "translate it" into an IP generic wording. FSo,
> >>>>>>> fcusing only on
> >>>>>> protocols (as we
> >>>>>>> are supposed to) how would you reformulate your requirement? Is
> >>>>>> talking
> >>>>>>> about "capability to establish security associations between
> >>>>>>> mobility
> >>>>>> entities"
> >>>>>>> would be acceptable?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Br,
> >>>>>>> Pierrick
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>>>>>>> De : dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De
> la
> >>> part
> >>>>>> de
> >>>>>>>> karagian@cs.utwente.nl Envoy=E9 : vendredi 25 mai 2012 07:49 =C0=
 :
> >>>>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : Re:
> [DMM]
> >>>>>>>> draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>>>>> (single-operator and
> >>>>>>>> cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Anthony,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am not sure whether it can be incorporated in REQ-4 or
> >>>>>>>> whether it could be considered as being an additional
> requirement!
> >>>>>>>> I am in favour of adding a new requirement that satisfies this
> >>>>>> issue!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Van: h chan [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
> >>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 19:36
> >>>>>>>> Aan: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> >>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Onderwerp: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>> deployment
> >>>>>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Georgios,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Do you think whether REQ-4 may be a better place to discuss.
> >>>>>>>> REQ-4
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> talking about compatibility. It already includes compatibility
> >>>>>>>> with other (such as 3GPP) mobility protocols. We can check what
> >>>>>>>> else are needed there for cross-operator mobility.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you agree, we can move this cross-operator issue over the
> >>>>>>>> REQ-4 thread.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:06 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: h chan
> >>>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Anthony, Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> During the last DMM meeting in Paris, I have raised  the issue
> >>>>>>>> of cross-operator mobility management support.
> >>>>>>>> Not sure if this issue can be satisfied by incorporating it
> >>>>>>>> into
> >>>>>> REQ-1
> >>>>>>>> Distributed deployment, or if it will be needed to create an
> >>>>>>>> additional requirement that incorporates the need of supporting
> >>>>>> both
> >>>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Van: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [dmm-bounces@ietf.org] namens h
> >>> chan
> >>>>>>>> [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
> >>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 1:20
> >>>>>>>> Aan: Jouni; Peter McCann
> >>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>> deployment
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-1 below:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>>>>> IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by
> >>>>>>>> DMM SHALL enable a distributed deployment of mobility
> >management
> >>>>>>>> of IP sessions so that the traffic can be routed in an optimal
> >>>>>>>> manner without traversing centrally deployed mobility anchors.
> >>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1)
> >>>>>>>> The goals of this requirement are to match mobility deployment
> >>>>>>>> with current trend in network evolution: more cost and resource
> >>>>>> effective
> >>>>>>>> to cache and distribute contents when combining distributed
> >>>>>>>> anchors with caching systems (e.g., CDN); improve scalability;
> >>>>>>>> avoid single point of failure; mitigate threats being focused
> >>>>>>>> on a centrally deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local
> >>>>>>>> mobility
> >anchor.
> >>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
> >>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
> >>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
> >>>>>>>> route,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> the problem is especially manifested when accessing a local or
> >>>>>> cache
> >>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
> >>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
> >>>>>>>> centralized mobility management becomes non-optimal as
> network
> >>>>>>>> architecture evolves and flattens.
> >>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility context
> >>>>>>>> maintenance Setting up such special routes and maintaining the
> >>>>>>>> mobility context including the tunnel state for each MN is more
> >>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large number
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>> MNs.
> >>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
> >>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
> >>> scalable.
> >>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized anchoring
> >>>>>>>> may
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
> >>>>>>>> distributed system.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:23 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: Peter McCann
> >>>>>>>> Cc: h chan; dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>> deployment
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On May 18, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Jouni,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> jouni korhonen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Breaking the silence..
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2012, at 8:55 PM, h chan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment IP mobility, network access
> >>>>>>>>>>> and routing solutions provided by
> >>>>>> DMM
> >>>>>>>>>>> SHALL enable the functions of mobility management of IP
> >>>>>> sessions
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> distributed so that the traffic is routed in an optimal
> >>>>>>>>>>> manner
> >>>>>>>> without
> >>>>>>>>>>> relying on centrally deployed anchors.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Few comments/questions..
> >>>>>>>>>> o "SHALL enable the functions of mobility management" does
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> imply
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> DMM "solution" must always involve or extend a mobility
> >>>>>> protocol?
> >>>>>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>>>>>> that should not be a SHALL requirement.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To the extent that DMM provides an "IP mobility...solution" I
> >>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>> it does
> >>>>>>>>> involve or extend a mobility protocol.  However, I don't think
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> requirement
> >>>>>>>>> implies that we will necessarily extend an existing mobility
> >>>>>>>> protocol.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Excerpt from the charter:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>   on managing the use of care-of versus home addresses in an
> >>>>>>>>   efficient manner for different types of communications.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just making sure the right flavor or address is used does not
> >>>>>>>> necessarily extend or require any mobility protocol support.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> o "centrally deployed anchors" what if the access network
> >>>>>> routing
> >>>>>>>>>> is  laid  out in a way that even pure IP routing would lead
> >>>>>> packets
> >>>>>>>>>> to go  through a central site/edge router? Doesn't that lead
> >>>>>>>>>> to similar  deficiencies than with mobility anchors?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It does indeed, which is why a good network deployment will
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> redundant
> >>>>>>>>> back-up paths throughout the network.  Unfortunately, it is
> >>>>>>>>> difficult
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> provide redundancy when the path involves tunnel state at an
> >>>>>> anchor
> >>>>>>>> point.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1) The goals of this requirement
> >>>>>>>>>>> are to match mobility deployment with current trend in
> >>>>>>>>>>> network evolution:
> >>>>>>>>>>> more cost and resource effective to cache and distribute
> >>>>>> contents
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>> combining distributed anchors with caching systems (e.g.,
> >>>>>>>>>>> CDN); improve scalability; reduce signaling overhead; avoid
> >>>>>>>>>>> single
> >>>>>> point
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>> failure; mitigate threats being focused on a centrally
> >>>>>>>>>>> deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mobility anchor.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Reduce signaling overhead.. is a very good goal. However, if
> >>>>>>>>>> any DMM solution builds on top of an existing mobility
> >>>>>>>>>> protocol that hardly reduces anything. Also if setting up
> >>>>>>>>>> optimal routes
> >>>>>> require
> >>>>>>>>>> establishing new tunnels, signaling is bound to increase. I
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> say
> >>>>>>>>>> here "does not increase the amount of present signaling" and
> >>>>>>>>>> the aim for solutions that would reduce it somehow.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It should be possible to completely avoid mobility management
> >>>>>>>> signaling
> >>>>>>>>> when the MN is stationary or doesn't need a fixed address.  I
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> say
> >>>>>>>>> that reduces signaling.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From that point view ok. Extra care is then needed that one
> >>>>>>>> does
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>> move the signaling to another layer.. take DSMIP6 (S2c) as an
> >>>>>> example,
> >>>>>>>> which avoids BU/BA exchange but then expanded the IKE
> signaling
> >>>>>>>> :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
> >>>>>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
> >>>>>> route,
> >>>>>>>>>>> and the problem is especially manifested when accessing a
> >>>>>>>>>>> local
> >>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> cache
> >>>>>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
> >>>>>>>>>>> centralized mobility management can become non-optimal as
> >>>>>> Network
> >>>>>>>>>>> architecture evolves and become more flattened.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> More flat is kind of superfluous.. take e.g. EPS example. You
> >>>>>> have,
> >>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> an optimal case, an eNodeB connected directly to a combined
> >>>>>>> SGW/PGW
> >>>>>>>>>> from the user plane point of view. And the SGW/PGW you can
> >>>>>> allocate
> >>>>>>>>>> close to you eNodeB based on its topological location. How
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> make that more flat? SGW relocation changes the situation a
> >>>>>>>>>> bit
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>> still..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Putting an SGW/PGW (or an LGW) inside in eNB would indeed
> be a
> >>>>>>>> maximally
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Putting SGW/PGW into eNodeB is not too realistic for a wider
> >>>>>>>> are deployment. LGWs we already got out there but the mobility
> >>>>>>>> in that case ain't too great as far as I remember.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> flat architecture.  However, we would then need to deal with a
> >>>>>>>>> change
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> anchor point during the life of a session, which is something
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>>>>> contemplated by 3GPP.  That is exactly the area that DMM
> >>>>>>>>> should focus
> >>>>>>>> on,
> >>>>>>>>> IMHO.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> With a cost of additional signaling and new tunnel state?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility
> >>>>>>>>>>> context maintenance Setting up such special routes and
> >>>>>>>>>>> maintaining the mobility context for each MN is more
> >>>>>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large
> >>>>>>>>>>> number of
> >MNs.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Can I assume the mobility context involves a possible per MN
> >>>>>> tunnel
> >>>>>>>>>> state?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I think the per-MN tunnel state is part of the mobility
> >>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>>> being talked about here.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Jouni
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Pete
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
> >>>>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
> >>>>>> scalable.
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized
> >>>>>>>>>>> anchoring
> >>>>>> may
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
> >>>>>>>>>>> distributed system.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> (The above is drafted with contributions, inputs and
> >>>>>> discussions
> >>>>>>>>>>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments
> >>>>>>>>>>> are most
> >>>>>>>>>>> welcome.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - Jouni
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "karagian@cs.utwente.nl" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>, "Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu" <Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed	deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:08:29 +0000
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Cc: "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed	deployment	(single-operator and cross-operator?)
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This issue does not belong to REQ-1. Let me move it to REQ-4

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of karag=
ian@cs.utwente.nl
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:23 AM
To: Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-=
operator and cross-operator?)

Hi Marco,

Your proposal satisfies my concern! I agree with your proposed additional r=
equirement:

 "The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted
administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security
measures deployed between these domains."

Best regards,
Georgios



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Liebsch [mailto:Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu]
> Sent: dinsdag 5 juni 2012 15:54
> To: Jouni; Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
>=20
> Hi Jouni, Georgios,
>=20
> please see inline.
>=20
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >Jouni
> >Sent: Samstag, 26. Mai 2012 16:13
> >To: karagian@cs.utwente.nl
> >Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >(single- operator and cross-operator?)
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >On May 25, 2012, at 3:57 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
> ><karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jouni,
> >>
> >> Answering to your question(s):
> >>
> >>> At least we need to make a
> >>> distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it
> >>> the MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current)
> >>> IP level anchor changing across administrative domains.
> >>
> >> Georgios: Please note that I was referring to both cases!
> >
> >Since I have difficulties believing b) would be a successful
> >requirement without slicing it into different use cases, I would ask
> >you to list up what use cases you think b) is needed for and what
> >assumptions there are for IP anchoring & possible tunnel state.
>=20
> I think it helps if that request is moved to a lower level and discussed =
on the
> basis of handover between administrative domains versus roaming. Roaming
> does not imply any requirement on IP address continuity, I think the only
> requirement here is about authentication and authorization when the MN
> gets assigned an anchor in the visited network (along with a local IP add=
ress).
> Handover may imply some demand for IP address continuity, which should
> be handled by signaling according to the DMM solution.
> Again, more an issue of available trust and security associations to prot=
ect
> signaling.
> ..Unless inter-domain handling requires a dedicated functional entity for
> DMM, which I don't hope.
>=20
> If needed at all, what about placing a requirement just like:
> 'The DMM solution must not break when being deployed between trusted
> administrative domains and should allow inter-working with the security
> measures deployed between these domains.'
>=20
> marco
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> >- Jouni
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Georgios
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:49
> >>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> >>> Cc: pierrick.seite@orange.com; h.anthony.chan@huawei.com;
> >>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 25, 2012, at 3:21 PM, <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
> >>> <karagian@cs.utwente.nl> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Pierrick,
> >>>>
> >>>> Please see in line!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
> >>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 14:00
> >>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
> >>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As an operator guy, I will not dispute a use-case dealing with roam=
ing
> :-).
> >>>>> However I think that it is out of the scope of our considerations
> >>>>> here (I mean, from the IETF standpoint). IMU, the goal of DMM is
> >>>>> not to specify a full system architecture (to which statement (1)
> >>>>> below seems to refer); the goal of DMM is, in a first stage, to
> >>>>> assess the use of legacy protocols in a distributed anchoring
> >deployment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Georgios: Not really defining a system architecture, but more the
> >>>> protocol
> >>> framework! The definition of the "distribution anchoring deployment"
> >>> borders is part of that!
> >>>
> >>> From my point of view, the protocol solutions (even what we have
> >>> today in mobility area) do not prohibit cross administrative domain
> >>> mobility. It is more a deployment decision loaded with non-techninal
> >>> far
> >from trivial issues.
> >>>
> >>> I do not like seeing this as a requirement. At least we need to make
> >>> a distinction what cross administrative domain would mean: a) is it
> >>> the MN moving across administrative domains or b) possibly (current)
> >>> IP level anchor changing across administrative domains.
> >>>
> >>> - Jouni
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moreover, statement (2) below, is more a solution hints than a
> >>> requirement.
> >>>>> Typically, (2) is about HA/LMA relocation which may be, or not, a
> >>>>> solution to meet Anthony's req#1. So, IMHO, req#1 addresses your
> >>> concern.
> >>>>
> >>>> Georgios: I think that the current description of REQ-1 is not
> >>>> really
> >>> addressing my concern!
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Georgios
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's only my opinion; let's see what others think.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BR,
> >>>>> Pierrick
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>>>>> De : karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> Envoy=E9 :
> >>>>>> vendredi 25 mai 2012 12:28 =C0 : SEITE Pierrick RD-RESA-REN;
> >>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : RE: [DMM]
> >>> draft
> >>>>>> requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment (single-operator and
> >>>>>> cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Pierrick,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The goal of such a requirement is to emphasize that the DMM
> >>>>>> protocol(s) that will be designed/specified by the DMM WG should
> >>>>>> be agnostic to whether users are roaming/moving into wireless
> >>>>>> coverage
> >>>>>> area(s) managed by either one single operator or by more than one
> >>>>> operators.
> >>>>>> I think that this will have an impact on some of  the
> >>>>>> requirements listed already by Anthony!
> >>>>>> Security association is one such requirement, other requirements
> >>>>>> are related to for example the possibility of the DMM protocol(s)
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> (1) easily use the user profile and mobility information when
> >>>>>> users are roaming away from their home operator, (2) use and
> >>>>>> support seamless, real time and dynamic change of the mobility
> >>>>>> anchors that could be located in different communication area(s)
> >>>>>> managed  by different operators.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com
> >>>>>>> [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com]
> >>>>>>> Sent: vrijdag 25 mei 2012 9:49
> >>>>>>> To: Karagiannis, G. (EWI); h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
> >>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Georgios,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It seems to me that the requirement: "need of supporting both
> >>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management" is a
> >>>>>>> deployment requirement. I understand the requirement but I do
> >>>>>>> not see how to "translate it" into an IP generic wording. FSo,
> >>>>>>> fcusing only on
> >>>>>> protocols (as we
> >>>>>>> are supposed to) how would you reformulate your requirement? Is
> >>>>>> talking
> >>>>>>> about "capability to establish security associations between
> >>>>>>> mobility
> >>>>>> entities"
> >>>>>>> would be acceptable?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Br,
> >>>>>>> Pierrick
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>>>>>>> De : dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De
> la
> >>> part
> >>>>>> de
> >>>>>>>> karagian@cs.utwente.nl Envoy=E9 : vendredi 25 mai 2012 07:49 =C0=
 :
> >>>>>>>> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com Cc : dmm@ietf.org Objet : Re:
> [DMM]
> >>>>>>>> draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>>>>> (single-operator and
> >>>>>>>> cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Anthony,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am not sure whether it can be incorporated in REQ-4 or
> >>>>>>>> whether it could be considered as being an additional
> requirement!
> >>>>>>>> I am in favour of adding a new requirement that satisfies this
> >>>>>> issue!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Van: h chan [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
> >>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 19:36
> >>>>>>>> Aan: Karagiannis, G. (EWI)
> >>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Onderwerp: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>> deployment
> >>>>>>>> (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Georgios,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Do you think whether REQ-4 may be a better place to discuss.
> >>>>>>>> REQ-4
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> talking about compatibility. It already includes compatibility
> >>>>>>>> with other (such as 3GPP) mobility protocols. We can check what
> >>>>>>>> else are needed there for cross-operator mobility.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you agree, we can move this cross-operator issue over the
> >>>>>>>> REQ-4 thread.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: karagian@cs.utwente.nl [mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl]
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:06 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: h chan
> >>>>>>>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>>>> deployment (single-operator and cross-operator?)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Anthony, Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> During the last DMM meeting in Paris, I have raised  the issue
> >>>>>>>> of cross-operator mobility management support.
> >>>>>>>> Not sure if this issue can be satisfied by incorporating it
> >>>>>>>> into
> >>>>>> REQ-1
> >>>>>>>> Distributed deployment, or if it will be needed to create an
> >>>>>>>> additional requirement that incorporates the need of supporting
> >>>>>> both
> >>>>>>>> single- operator and cross-operator mobility management.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>> Georgios
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Van: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [dmm-bounces@ietf.org] namens h
> >>> chan
> >>>>>>>> [h.anthony.chan@huawei.com]
> >>>>>>>> Verzonden: donderdag 24 mei 2012 1:20
> >>>>>>>> Aan: Jouni; Peter McCann
> >>>>>>>> CC: dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>>>>> deployment
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-1 below:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> >>>>>>>> IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by
> >>>>>>>> DMM SHALL enable a distributed deployment of mobility
> >management
> >>>>>>>> of IP sessions so that the traffic can be routed in an optimal
> >>>>>>>> manner without traversing centrally deployed mobility anchors.
> >>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1)
> >>>>>>>> The goals of this requirement are to match mobility deployment
> >>>>>>>> with current trend in network evolution: more cost and resource
> >>>>>> effective
> >>>>>>>> to cache and distribute contents when combining distributed
> >>>>>>>> anchors with caching systems (e.g., CDN); improve scalability;
> >>>>>>>> avoid single point of failure; mitigate threats being focused
> >>>>>>>> on a centrally deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local
> >>>>>>>> mobility
> >anchor.
> >>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
> >>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
> >>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
> >>>>>>>> route,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> the problem is especially manifested when accessing a local or
> >>>>>> cache
> >>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
> >>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
> >>>>>>>> centralized mobility management becomes non-optimal as
> network
> >>>>>>>> architecture evolves and flattens.
> >>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility context
> >>>>>>>> maintenance Setting up such special routes and maintaining the
> >>>>>>>> mobility context including the tunnel state for each MN is more
> >>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large number
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>> MNs.
> >>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
> >>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
> >>> scalable.
> >>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized anchoring
> >>>>>>>> may
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
> >>>>>>>> distributed system.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: Jouni [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:23 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: Peter McCann
> >>>>>>>> Cc: h chan; dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed
> >>> deployment
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On May 18, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Jouni,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> jouni korhonen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Breaking the silence..
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2012, at 8:55 PM, h chan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1: Distributed deployment IP mobility, network access
> >>>>>>>>>>> and routing solutions provided by
> >>>>>> DMM
> >>>>>>>>>>> SHALL enable the functions of mobility management of IP
> >>>>>> sessions
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> distributed so that the traffic is routed in an optimal
> >>>>>>>>>>> manner
> >>>>>>>> without
> >>>>>>>>>>> relying on centrally deployed anchors.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Few comments/questions..
> >>>>>>>>>> o "SHALL enable the functions of mobility management" does
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> imply
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> DMM "solution" must always involve or extend a mobility
> >>>>>> protocol?
> >>>>>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>>>>>> that should not be a SHALL requirement.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> To the extent that DMM provides an "IP mobility...solution" I
> >>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>> it does
> >>>>>>>>> involve or extend a mobility protocol.  However, I don't think
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> requirement
> >>>>>>>>> implies that we will necessarily extend an existing mobility
> >>>>>>>> protocol.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Excerpt from the charter:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>   on managing the use of care-of versus home addresses in an
> >>>>>>>>   efficient manner for different types of communications.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just making sure the right flavor or address is used does not
> >>>>>>>> necessarily extend or require any mobility protocol support.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> o "centrally deployed anchors" what if the access network
> >>>>>> routing
> >>>>>>>>>> is  laid  out in a way that even pure IP routing would lead
> >>>>>> packets
> >>>>>>>>>> to go  through a central site/edge router? Doesn't that lead
> >>>>>>>>>> to similar  deficiencies than with mobility anchors?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It does indeed, which is why a good network deployment will
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> redundant
> >>>>>>>>> back-up paths throughout the network.  Unfortunately, it is
> >>>>>>>>> difficult
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> provide redundancy when the path involves tunnel state at an
> >>>>>> anchor
> >>>>>>>> point.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1) The goals of this requirement
> >>>>>>>>>>> are to match mobility deployment with current trend in
> >>>>>>>>>>> network evolution:
> >>>>>>>>>>> more cost and resource effective to cache and distribute
> >>>>>> contents
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>> combining distributed anchors with caching systems (e.g.,
> >>>>>>>>>>> CDN); improve scalability; reduce signaling overhead; avoid
> >>>>>>>>>>> single
> >>>>>> point
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>> failure; mitigate threats being focused on a centrally
> >>>>>>>>>>> deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mobility anchor.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Reduce signaling overhead.. is a very good goal. However, if
> >>>>>>>>>> any DMM solution builds on top of an existing mobility
> >>>>>>>>>> protocol that hardly reduces anything. Also if setting up
> >>>>>>>>>> optimal routes
> >>>>>> require
> >>>>>>>>>> establishing new tunnels, signaling is bound to increase. I
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> say
> >>>>>>>>>> here "does not increase the amount of present signaling" and
> >>>>>>>>>> the aim for solutions that would reduce it somehow.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It should be possible to completely avoid mobility management
> >>>>>>>> signaling
> >>>>>>>>> when the MN is stationary or doesn't need a fixed address.  I
> >>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> say
> >>>>>>>>> that reduces signaling.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From that point view ok. Extra care is then needed that one
> >>>>>>>> does
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>> move the signaling to another layer.. take DSMIP6 (S2c) as an
> >>>>>> example,
> >>>>>>>> which avoids BU/BA exchange but then expanded the IKE
> signaling
> >>>>>>>> :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RELEVANT problems:
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS1: Non-optimal routes
> >>>>>>>>>>> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
> >>>>>> route,
> >>>>>>>>>>> and the problem is especially manifested when accessing a
> >>>>>>>>>>> local
> >>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> cache
> >>>>>>>>>>> server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture The
> >>>>>>>>>>> centralized mobility management can become non-optimal as
> >>>>>> Network
> >>>>>>>>>>> architecture evolves and become more flattened.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> More flat is kind of superfluous.. take e.g. EPS example. You
> >>>>>> have,
> >>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> an optimal case, an eNodeB connected directly to a combined
> >>>>>>> SGW/PGW
> >>>>>>>>>> from the user plane point of view. And the SGW/PGW you can
> >>>>>> allocate
> >>>>>>>>>> close to you eNodeB based on its topological location. How
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> make that more flat? SGW relocation changes the situation a
> >>>>>>>>>> bit
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>> still..
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Putting an SGW/PGW (or an LGW) inside in eNB would indeed
> be a
> >>>>>>>> maximally
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Putting SGW/PGW into eNodeB is not too realistic for a wider
> >>>>>>>> are deployment. LGWs we already got out there but the mobility
> >>>>>>>> in that case ain't too great as far as I remember.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> flat architecture.  However, we would then need to deal with a
> >>>>>>>>> change
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> anchor point during the life of a session, which is something
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>>>>> contemplated by 3GPP.  That is exactly the area that DMM
> >>>>>>>>> should focus
> >>>>>>>> on,
> >>>>>>>>> IMHO.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> With a cost of additional signaling and new tunnel state?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility
> >>>>>>>>>>> context maintenance Setting up such special routes and
> >>>>>>>>>>> maintaining the mobility context for each MN is more
> >>>>>>>>>>> difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large
> >>>>>>>>>>> number of
> >MNs.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Can I assume the mobility context involves a possible per MN
> >>>>>> tunnel
> >>>>>>>>>> state?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I think the per-MN tunnel state is part of the mobility
> >>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>>> being talked about here.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Jouni
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Pete
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility
> >>>>>>>> context
> >>>>>>>>>>> maintenance function among different networks can be more
> >>>>>> scalable.
> >>>>>>>>>>> PS4: Single point of failure and attack Centralized
> >>>>>>>>>>> anchoring
> >>>>>> may
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> more vulnerable to single point of failure and attack than a
> >>>>>>>>>>> distributed system.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> (The above is drafted with contributions, inputs and
> >>>>>> discussions
> >>>>>>>>>>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments
> >>>>>>>>>>> are most
> >>>>>>>>>>> welcome.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - Jouni
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> H Anthony Chan
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>>>>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> dmm mailing list
> >>>> dmm@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >dmm mailing list
> >dmm@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Tue Jun  5 10:14:15 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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Revise as follows:

REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when needed=
. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile netwo=
rks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application f=
lows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but the need to maintain=
 a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.
REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network res=
ources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home IP ad=
dress when there is no such need.

H Anthony Chan


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers

An attempt to clean up the text so far:

REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when needed=
. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile netwo=
rks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application f=
lows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but SHOULD NOT be taken =
as the default behavior.

REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network res=
ources and more efficient routing when mobility support is implemented by n=
ot invoking it for the application flows and nodes that do not need it.=20

RELEVANT problem:
PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility support=
=20
IP mobility support is not always required. For example, some applications =
do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP session continuity=
. Sometimes, the entire application session runs while the terminal does no=
t change the point of attachment. In these situations that do not require I=
P mobility support, network resources are wasted when including additional =
info to the mobility context to support the change the point of attachment.=
 Network resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many =
MNs that do not require IP mobility support.
OTHER related problem
O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts =
may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer nee=
ded. Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will waste=
 network resources.=20
O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be=
 less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of user-centr=
icity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by default regardl=
ess of whether the user needs it or not.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter McCann=20
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM
To: jouni korhonen; h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers

Hi, Jouni,

jouni korhonen wrote:
>=20
> Few comments/questions here:
>=20
> On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:
>=20
>> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>> The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the IP layer. Such
>> transparency is needed for the application flows that cannot cope with
>> a change of IP address and when mobile hosts or entire mobile networks
>> change their point of attachment to the Internet, but SHOULD NOT be
>> taken as the default behavior.
>=20
> "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" seem
> to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something
> like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave
> transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don't care
> whether IP changes or not?

I think the latter.  If the applications don't care about transparency,
then we don't need to pay for it with state and signaling in the network.

However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be possible
to provide it.
=20
>> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>> The goal of this requirement is to
>> enable more efficient use of network resources and more efficient
>> routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no such need.
>=20
> Does this still mean the mobility support must be implement even if it
> is not used?

We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of
mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for this case as it
might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period of
time.

>> RELEVANT problem:
>> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility
>> support IP mobility support is not always required. For example,
>> some
>> applications do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP
>> session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs
>> while the terminal does not change the point of attachment. In these
>> situations that do not require IP mobility support, network resources
>> are wasted when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also
>> wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require
>> IP mobility support.
>>=20
>> OTHER related problem
>> O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
>> While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the
>> hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no
>> longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default
>> behavior will waste network resources.
>> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
>> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management
>> may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of
>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by
>> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>=20
> I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though but
> the title "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what does
> forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user centricity?

I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility management
to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't mind seeing this explanatory text
re-worded.

-Pete

>=20
> - Jouni
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions
>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
>> welcome.)
>>=20
>> H Anthony Chan
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Tue Jun  5 10:19:31 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-5: Mobile IP based
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Simplify the text as follows:

REQ-5: Mobile IP based
A DMM solution SHOULD first consider reusing and extending the existing mob=
ility protocols before specifying new protocols.
REQ-5M (Motivation for REQ-5)
The motivation is to reuse the existing protocol first before considering n=
ew protocols.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:25 PM
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-5: Mobile IP based

Clean up the text below:

REQ-5: Mobile IP based
A DMM solution that relies on a mobility protocol SHOULD be based on existi=
ng mobility protocol, such as Mobile IPv6 [RFC6275, 5555], Proxy Mobile IPv=
6 [RFC5213, 5844], NEMO [RFC3963], and [I-D.ietf-netext-pd-pmip].=20

(assuming the PMIPv6 PD will have an rfc number later to update this requir=
ement)

REQ-5M (Motivation for REQ-5):
The motivation is to reuse the existing protocol first before considering n=
ew protocols.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter McCann=20
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:01 AM
To: jouni korhonen; h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-5: Mobile IP based

Hi, Jouni,

jouni korhonen wrote:
>=20
> On May 7, 2012, at 9:11 PM, h chan wrote:
>=20
>> REQ-5: Mobile IP based
>> The DMM solutions based on existing host- or network-based mobility
> protocols, such as Mobile IPv6 [RFC6275, 5555], Proxy Mobile IPv6
> [RFC5213, 5844] and NEMO [RFC3963], SHOULD be preferred, unless they
> fail to meet any of the other requirements.
>=20
> What about something on the lines with:
>=20
> "A DMM solution that relies on a mobility protocol should be based  on
> existing mobility protocol, such as .."

Sounds good to me.

-Pete

> - Jouni
>=20
>> REQ-5M (Motivation for REQ-5) The motivation is to reuse the existing
>> protocol first before considering new protocols.
>>=20
>> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions
>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
>> welcome.)
>>=20
>> H Anthony Chan
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



_______________________________________________
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Tue Jun  5 10:24:01 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@gmail.com>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-6: authentication and authorization
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:21:27 +0000
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Tue Jun  5 10:29:27 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:26:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Replacing REQ-4 with the following:

REQ-4: compatibility
The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adminis=
trative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures d=
eployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts al=
so SHOULD NOT break.

H Anthony Chan


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:

REQ-4: compatibility=20
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling protocol so that the existing network dep=
loyments and end hosts are not broken.
REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing net=
work deployments and end hosts.=20
OTHER related problem
O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP
Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. When in=
troducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solutions=
 are more vulnerable to break.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter McCann=20
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM
To: jouni korhonen; h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

Hi, Jouni,

jouni korhonen wrote:
>=20
> On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:
>=20
>> REQ-4: compatibility
>> The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with
>> IPv6
>> (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other
>> mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the
>> mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so
>> that the existing network deployments are unaffected.
>>=20
>> REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)
>> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to work
>> with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flattened
>> networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enough
>> flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existing
>> networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.
>=20
> Isn't the motivation just "SHALL not break existing network
> deployments and end hosts" ?
> Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions
> developed in DMM.

I think that's a reasonable simplification.  We need a strategy for
backwards compatibility.

-Pete

> - JOuni
>=20
>>=20
>> OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many
>> variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many
>> variants and extensions of
> MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,
> existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.
>>=20
>> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions
>> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
>> welcome.)
>>=20
>> H Anthony Chan
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



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From charliep@computer.org  Tue Jun  5 15:39:18 2012
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On 6/5/2012 10:12 AM, h chan wrote:
> Revise as follows:
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.
> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
>
> H Anthony Chan

I think it should be possible for the user of a device to set which behavior
is to be considered the default behavior for all applications on that 
device.

This would leave open the possibility that, unless the user specifies 
otherwise,
the device would be configured to have "unstable" addressing as default.

-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


From charliep@computer.org  Tue Jun  5 15:55:42 2012
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Hello folks,

On 6/5/2012 10:26 AM, h chan wrote:
> Replacing REQ-4 with the following:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts also SHOULD NOT break.

I understand the intent, but specifying that something "SHOULD NOT break"
seems almost like berating the children.

How about:

"The DMM solution is required to work between trusted administrative domains
   and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed 
between
   these domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution must preserve backwards
   compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts."

I have two more issues:

- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security 
measures.
- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the 
"SHOULD"
   in the above text is somehow incorrect.

I'm not sure exactly how best to resolve these latter two issues, but 
before I
try to make a resolution, I thought it would be good to raise the issue 
on this
list for possible further discussion.

-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Wed Jun  6 09:26:39 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:24:09 +0000
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Cc: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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How about the following change:

REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when needed=
. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile netwo=
rks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application f=
lows that cannot cope with a change of IP address. Otherwise the support to=
 maintain a stable home IP address or prefix during handover may be decline=
d.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:39 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers

On 6/5/2012 10:12 AM, h chan wrote:
> Revise as follows:
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when need=
ed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile net=
works change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application=
 flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but the need to mainta=
in a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.
> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network r=
esources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home IP =
address when there is no such need.
>
> H Anthony Chan

I think it should be possible for the user of a device to set which behavio=
r
is to be considered the default behavior for all applications on that=20
device.

This would leave open the possibility that, unless the user specifies=20
otherwise,
the device would be configured to have "unstable" addressing as default.

--=20
Regards,
Charlie P.


From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Wed Jun  6 09:35:33 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "luo.wen@zte.com.cn" <luo.wen@zte.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:32:56 +0000
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Cc: "dmm-bounces@ietf.org" <dmm-bounces@ietf.org>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yes, the second and third=
 sentences are not additional requirements, but rather explanations of the =
requirement in the first sentence. Does the rewrite sound
 better now:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when ne=
eded. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile n=
etworks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the applicati=
on flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address. Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP a=
ddress or prefix during handover may be declined.</tt><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F=
497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@=
zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparen=
cy to Upper Layers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Hi Anthony:</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">The last part of the sentence (i.e.
</span><tt><i>but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix S=
HOULD NOT be taken as default</i>.</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">) seems a littel strange =
to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just describes under what circumstances
 the </span><tt>transparency is needed (i.e. <i>when the mobile hosts or en=
tire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for =
the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address</i>), th=
at means automatically, otherwise
 the transparency is not needed. So why bother to write the </tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>last part of the</span><tt> sentence<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A3=BF</span></tt=
>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will obvious=
ly get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP address/prefi=
x can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile does not change its=
 point of attachment.
</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">The last part of the sentence will just exclude this scenar=
io.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">If I make any mistake, please correct me.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Thanks</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Luowen</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">: &nbsp;dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:12</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, jouni korhonen &lt;jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transpa=
rency to Upper Layers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Revise as follows:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when ne=
eded. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile n=
etworks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the applicati=
on flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address, but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or=
 prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.</tt><br>
<tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network=
 resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home I=
P address when there is no such need.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h=
 chan</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM</tt><br>
<tt>To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layer=
s</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>An attempt to clean up the text so far:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when ne=
eded. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile n=
etworks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the applicati=
on flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address, but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.</tt=
><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network=
 resources and more efficient routing when mobility support is implemented =
by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes that do not need it.
</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
<tt>PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility sup=
port </tt>
<br>
<tt>IP mobility support is not always required. For example, some applicati=
ons do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP session contin=
uity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs while the terminal doe=
s not change the point of attachment.
 In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, network resou=
rces are wasted when including additional info to the mobility context to s=
upport the change the point of attachment. Network resources are also waste=
d when the via routes are set up
 for many MNs that do not require IP mobility support.</tt><br>
<tt>OTHER related problem</tt><br>
<tt>O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication</tt>=
<br>
<tt>While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the ho=
sts may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer=
 needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will w=
aste network resources.
</tt><br>
<tt>O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
<tt>Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management ma=
y be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of user-c=
entricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by default reg=
ardless of whether the user needs
 it or not.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: Peter McCann </tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM</tt><br>
<tt>To: jouni korhonen; h chan</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layer=
s</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Hi, Jouni,</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>jouni korhonen wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Few comments/questions here:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the IP layer=
. Such</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; transparency is needed for the application flows that cannot c=
ope with</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile hosts or entire mobile =
networks</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the Internet, but SHOULD N=
OT be</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; &quot;SHALL enable&quot; but &quot;SHOULD NOT be taken as the defa=
ult behavior&quot; seem</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean somethi=
ng</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; like &quot;MUST implement, SHOULD use&quot; type of solution? Or c=
an one leave</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don't =
care</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; whether IP changes or not?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I think the latter. &nbsp;If the applications don't care about transpar=
ency,</tt><br>
<tt>then we don't need to pay for it with state and signaling in the networ=
k.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be possibl=
e</tt><br>
<tt>to provide it.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; The goal of this requirement is to</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; enable more efficient use of network resources and more effici=
ent</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no such=
 need.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Does this still mean the mobility support must be implement even i=
f it</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; is not used?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of<=
/tt><br>
<tt>mobility. &nbsp;However, we needn't optimize the network for this case =
as it</tt><br>
<tt>might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period of</=
tt><br>
<tt>time.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mob=
ility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not always required. For exampl=
e,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; some</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; applications do not need a stable IP address during handover, =
i.e. IP</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session =
runs</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; while the terminal does not change the point of attachment. In=
 these</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; situations that do not require IP mobility support, network re=
sources</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; are wasted when mobility context is set up. Network resources =
are also</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not=
 require</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; IP mobility support.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communica=
tion</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachabl=
e, the</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility suppo=
rt is no</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the defa=
ult</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; behavior will waste network resources.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility mana=
gement</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the=
 lack of</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile n=
odes by</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.</tt><b=
r>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though b=
ut</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; the title &quot;lack of user-centricity&quot; is somewhat confusin=
g.. what does</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user centricity?<=
/tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility managemen=
t</tt><br>
<tt>to the needs of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn't mind seeing this explanatory=
 text</tt><br>
<tt>re-worded.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-Pete</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; - Jouni</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and dis=
cussions</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are=
 most</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; welcome.)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From sarikaya2012@gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 12:04:36 2012
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From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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Hi Jouni,

What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never
ending discussions.

Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard work and
move on?

Regards,

Behcet

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com> wrote:

>  Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional requirements, but
> rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. Does the
> rewrite sound better now:****
>
> ** **
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobi=
le
> networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the
> application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address. Otherwise
> the support to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix during handove=
r
> may be declined.****
>
> ** **
>
> H Anthony Chan****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
> *To:* h chan
> *Cc:* dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann
> *Subject:* =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency =
to Upper
> Layers****
>
> ** **
>
>
> Hi Anthony:
>
> The last part of the sentence (i.e. *but the need to maintain a stable
> home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default*.) seems a
> littel strange to me.  REQ-2 just describes under what circumstances the =
transparency
> is needed (i.e. *when the mobile hosts or entire mobile networks change
> their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application flows that
> cannot cope with a change of IP address*), that means automatically,
> otherwise the transparency is not needed. So why bother to write the last
> part of the sentence=A3=BF
>
> Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will obviously
> get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP address/prefix
> can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile does not change its
> point of attachment. The last part of the sentence will just exclude this
> scenario.
>
> If I make any mistake, please correct me.
>
> Thanks
> Luowen
>
>
>
> ****
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  dmm-bounces@ietf.org ****
>
> 2012/06/06 01:12 ****
>
> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB****
>
> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>,
> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com> ****
>
> =B3=AD=CB=CD****
>
> =D6=F7=CC=E2****
>
> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
>
> Revise as follows:
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobi=
le
> networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the
> application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but the
> need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken a=
s
> default.
> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network
> resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home =
IP
> address when there is no such need.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h
> chan
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM
> To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>
> An attempt to clean up the text so far:
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobi=
le
> networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the
> application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but SHOUL=
D
> NOT be taken as the default behavior.
>
> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network
> resources and more efficient routing when mobility support is implemented
> by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes that do not need i=
t.
>
> RELEVANT problem:
> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility
> support
> IP mobility support is not always required. For example, some application=
s
> do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP session
> continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs while the
> terminal does not change the point of attachment. In these situations tha=
t
> do not require IP mobility support, network resources are wasted when
> including additional info to the mobility context to support the change t=
he
> point of attachment. Network resources are also wasted when the via route=
s
> are set up for many MNs that do not require IP mobility support.
> OTHER related problem
> O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
> While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the host=
s
> may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer
> needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will
> waste network resources.
> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management may
> be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of
> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by
> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter McCann
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM
> To: jouni korhonen; h chan
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>
> Hi, Jouni,
>
> jouni korhonen wrote:
> >
> > Few comments/questions here:
> >
> > On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:
> >
> >> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> >> The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the IP layer. Such
> >> transparency is needed for the application flows that cannot cope with
> >> a change of IP address and when mobile hosts or entire mobile networks
> >> change their point of attachment to the Internet, but SHOULD NOT be
> >> taken as the default behavior.
> >
> > "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" seem
> > to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something
> > like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave
> > transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don't care
> > whether IP changes or not?
>
> I think the latter.  If the applications don't care about transparency,
> then we don't need to pay for it with state and signaling in the network.
>
> However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be possible
> to provide it.
>
> >> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> >> The goal of this requirement is to
> >> enable more efficient use of network resources and more efficient
> >> routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no such need.
> >
> > Does this still mean the mobility support must be implement even if it
> > is not used?
>
> We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of
> mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for this case as it
> might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period of
> time.
>
> >> RELEVANT problem:
> >> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility
> >> support IP mobility support is not always required. For example,
> >> some
> >> applications do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP
> >> session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs
> >> while the terminal does not change the point of attachment. In these
> >> situations that do not require IP mobility support, network resources
> >> are wasted when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also
> >> wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require
> >> IP mobility support.
> >>
> >> OTHER related problem
> >> O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
> >> While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the
> >> hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no
> >> longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default
> >> behavior will waste network resources.
> >> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
> >> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management
> >> may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of
> >> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by
> >> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
> >
> > I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though but
> > the title "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what does
> > forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user centricity?
>
> I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility management
> to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't mind seeing this explanatory text
> re-worded.
>
> -Pete
>
> >
> > - Jouni
> >
> >
> >>
> >> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions
> >> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
> >> welcome.)
> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dmm mailing list
> > dmm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jouni,<br><br>What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mail=
s and never ending discussions.<br><br>Isn&#39;t it the time to get the dra=
ft out, thank Anthony for his hard work and move on?<br><br>Regards,<br>
<br>Behcet<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 A=
M, h chan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com=
" target=3D"_blank">h.anthony.chan@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Yes, the second and third=
 sentences are not additional requirements, but rather explanations of the =
requirement in the first sentence. Does the rewrite sound
 better now:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"></p><div class=3D"im"><tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upp=
er Layers</tt><br>
</div><div class=3D"im"><tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency ab=
ove the IP layer when needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile =
hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Int=
ernet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address. Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP a=
ddress or prefix during handover may be declined.</tt><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f=
497d"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">H Anthony Chan<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a> [ma=
ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn" target=3D"_blank">luo.wen@zte.co=
m.cn</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparen=
cy to Upper Layers<u></u><u></u></span></p>

</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Hi Anthony:</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">The last part of the sentence (i.e.
</span><tt><i>but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix S=
HOULD NOT be taken as default</i>.</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">) seems a littel strange =
to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just describes under what circumstances
 the </span><tt>transparency is needed (i.e. <i>when the mobile hosts or en=
tire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for =
the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address</i>), th=
at means automatically, otherwise
 the transparency is not needed. So why bother to write the </tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>last part of the</span><tt> sentence<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A3=BF</span></tt=
>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will obvious=
ly get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP address/prefi=
x can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile does not change its=
 point of attachment.
</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">The last part of the sentence will just exclude this scenar=
io.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">If I make any mistake, please correct me.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Thanks</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Luowen</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<table style=3D"width:100.0%" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D=
"3" width=3D"100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top" wi=
dth=3D"35%">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:h.anthony.=
chan@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">h.anthony.chan@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>=
</b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">: &nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dm=
m-bounces@ietf.org</a></span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:12</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top" wi=
dth=3D"64%">
<table style=3D"width:100.0%" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D=
"3" width=3D"100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:right" align=3D"right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Pe=
ter.McCann@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">Peter.McCann@huawei.com</a>&gt;, j=
ouni korhonen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">jouni.nospam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:right" align=3D"right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:right" align=3D"right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transpa=
rency to Upper Layers</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top"></td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" valign=3D"top"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Revise as follows:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when ne=
eded. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile n=
etworks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the applicati=
on flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address, but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or=
 prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.</tt><br>
<tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network=
 resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home I=
P address when there is no such need.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm-bou=
nces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of h chan</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM</tt><br>
<tt>To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a><=
/tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layer=
s</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>An attempt to clean up the text so far:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when ne=
eded. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile n=
etworks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the applicati=
on flows that cannot cope with a
 change of IP address, but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.</tt=
><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network=
 resources and more efficient routing when mobility support is implemented =
by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes that do not need it.
</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
<tt>PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility sup=
port </tt>
<br>
<tt>IP mobility support is not always required. For example, some applicati=
ons do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP session contin=
uity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs while the terminal doe=
s not change the point of attachment.
 In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, network resou=
rces are wasted when including additional info to the mobility context to s=
upport the change the point of attachment. Network resources are also waste=
d when the via routes are set up
 for many MNs that do not require IP mobility support.</tt><br>
<tt>OTHER related problem</tt><br>
<tt>O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication</tt>=
<br>
<tt>While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the ho=
sts may then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer=
 needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will w=
aste network resources.
</tt><br>
<tt>O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
<tt>Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management ma=
y be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of user-c=
entricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by default reg=
ardless of whether the user needs
 it or not.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: Peter McCann </tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM</tt><br>
<tt>To: jouni korhonen; h chan</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a><=
/tt><br>
<tt>Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layer=
s</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Hi, Jouni,</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>jouni korhonen wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Few comments/questions here:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the IP layer=
. Such</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; transparency is needed for the application flows that cannot c=
ope with</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile hosts or entire mobile =
networks</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the Internet, but SHOULD N=
OT be</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; &quot;SHALL enable&quot; but &quot;SHOULD NOT be taken as the defa=
ult behavior&quot; seem</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean somethi=
ng</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; like &quot;MUST implement, SHOULD use&quot; type of solution? Or c=
an one leave</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don&#3=
9;t care</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; whether IP changes or not?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I think the latter. &nbsp;If the applications don&#39;t care about tran=
sparency,</tt><br>
<tt>then we don&#39;t need to pay for it with state and signaling in the ne=
twork.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be possibl=
e</tt><br>
<tt>to provide it.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; The goal of this requirement is to</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; enable more efficient use of network resources and more effici=
ent</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no such=
 need.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Does this still mean the mobility support must be implement even i=
f it</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; is not used?</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of<=
/tt><br>
<tt>mobility. &nbsp;However, we needn&#39;t optimize the network for this c=
ase as it</tt><br>
<tt>might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period of</=
tt><br>
<tt>time.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mob=
ility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not always required. For exampl=
e,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; some</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; applications do not need a stable IP address during handover, =
i.e. IP</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session =
runs</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; while the terminal does not change the point of attachment. In=
 these</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; situations that do not require IP mobility support, network re=
sources</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; are wasted when mobility context is set up. Network resources =
are also</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not=
 require</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; IP mobility support.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communica=
tion</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachabl=
e, the</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility suppo=
rt is no</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the defa=
ult</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; behavior will waste network resources.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility mana=
gement</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the=
 lack of</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile n=
odes by</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.</tt><b=
r>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though b=
ut</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; the title &quot;lack of user-centricity&quot; is somewhat confusin=
g.. what does</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user centricity?<=
/tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility managemen=
t</tt><br>
<tt>to the needs of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn&#39;t mind seeing this explana=
tory text</tt><br>
<tt>re-worded.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-Pete</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; - Jouni</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and dis=
cussions</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are=
 most</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; welcome.)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org=
</a></tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>=
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt>=
<br>
<tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt>=
<br>
<tt><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>

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Hello folks,

It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for a new 
draft.
However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps 
worthy to
be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).

Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?

Regards,
Charlie P.


On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
> Hi Jouni,
>
> What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never 
> ending discussions.
>
> Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard 
> work and move on?
>
> Regards,
>
> Behcet
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com 
> <mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional
>     requirements, but rather explanations of the requirement in the
>     first sentence. Does the rewrite sound better now:
>
>     REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>     The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer
>     when needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or
>     entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the
>     Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change
>     of IP address. Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP
>     address or prefix during handover may be declined.
>
>     H Anthony Chan
>
>     *From:*luo.wen@zte.com.cn <mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn>
>     [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn <mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn>]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
>     *To:* h chan
>     *Cc:* dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>; dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org>; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann
>     *Subject:* ??: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to
>     Upper Layers
>
>
>     Hi Anthony:
>
>     The last part of the sentence (i.e. /but the need to maintain a
>     stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default/.)
>     seems a littel strange to me.  REQ-2 just describes under what
>     circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. /when the mobile
>     hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment
>     to the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a
>     change of IP address/), that means automatically, otherwise the
>     transparency is not needed. So why bother to write the last part
>     of thesentence?
>
>     Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will
>     obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The
>     IP address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the
>     mobile does not change its point of attachment. The last part of
>     the sentence will just exclude this scenario.
>
>     If I make any mistake, please correct me.
>
>     Thanks
>     Luowen
>
>
>
>     *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com
>     <mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>>*
>     ? ??: dmm-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org>
>
>     2012/06/06 01:12
>
>     	
>
>     ???
>
>     	
>
>     "dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>" <dmm@ietf.org
>     <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com
>     <mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com>>, jouni korhonen
>     <jouni.nospam@gmail.com <mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com>>
>
>     ??
>
>     	
>
>     ??
>
>     	
>
>     Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>
>
>     	
>
>
>
>
>     Revise as follows:
>
>     REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>     The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer
>     when needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or
>     entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the
>     Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change
>     of IP address, but the need to maintain a stable home IP address
>     or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.
>     REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>     The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of
>     network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a
>     stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
>
>     H Anthony Chan
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org>
>     [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org>] On
>     Behalf Of h chan
>     Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM
>     To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
>     Cc: dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
>     Layers
>
>     An attempt to clean up the text so far:
>
>     REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>     The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer
>     when needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or
>     entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to the
>     Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change
>     of IP address, but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.
>
>     REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>     The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of
>     network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support
>     is implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and
>     nodes that do not need it.
>
>     RELEVANT problem:
>     PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing
>     mobility support
>     IP mobility support is not always required. For example, some
>     applications do not need a stable IP address during handover, i.e.
>     IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session
>     runs while the terminal does not change the point of attachment.
>     In these situations that do not require IP mobility support,
>     network resources are wasted when including additional info to the
>     mobility context to support the change the point of attachment.
>     Network resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up
>     for many MNs that do not require IP mobility support.
>     OTHER related problem
>     O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
>     While mobility management enables a mobile host to be reachable,
>     the hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility
>     support is no longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support
>     as the default behavior will waste network resources.
>     O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
>     Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility
>     management may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example
>     in the lack of user-centricity is to provide mobility support to
>     all mobile nodes by default regardless of whether the user needs
>     it or not.
>
>     H Anthony Chan
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Peter McCann
>     Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM
>     To: jouni korhonen; h chan
>     Cc: dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
>     Layers
>
>     Hi, Jouni,
>
>     jouni korhonen wrote:
>     >
>     > Few comments/questions here:
>     >
>     > On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:
>     >
>     >> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>     >> The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the IP layer.
>     Such
>     >> transparency is needed for the application flows that cannot
>     cope with
>     >> a change of IP address and when mobile hosts or entire mobile
>     networks
>     >> change their point of attachment to the Internet, but SHOULD NOT be
>     >> taken as the default behavior.
>     >
>     > "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior"
>     seem
>     > to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something
>     > like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave
>     > transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just
>     don't care
>     > whether IP changes or not?
>
>     I think the latter.  If the applications don't care about
>     transparency,
>     then we don't need to pay for it with state and signaling in the
>     network.
>
>     However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be
>     possible
>     to provide it.
>
>     >> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>     >> The goal of this requirement is to
>     >> enable more efficient use of network resources and more efficient
>     >> routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no such
>     need.
>     >
>     > Does this still mean the mobility support must be implement even
>     if it
>     > is not used?
>
>     We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of
>     mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for this case
>     as it
>     might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period of
>     time.
>
>     >> RELEVANT problem:
>     >> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility
>     >> support IP mobility support is not always required. For example,
>     >> some
>     >> applications do not need a stable IP address during handover,
>     i.e. IP
>     >> session continuity. Sometimes, the entire application session runs
>     >> while the terminal does not change the point of attachment. In
>     these
>     >> situations that do not require IP mobility support, network
>     resources
>     >> are wasted when mobility context is set up. Network resources
>     are also
>     >> wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not
>     require
>     >> IP mobility support.
>     >>
>     >> OTHER related problem
>     >> O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication
>     >> While mobility management enables a mobile host to be
>     reachable, the
>     >> hosts may then communicate directly so that the mobility
>     support is no
>     >> longer needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default
>     >> behavior will waste network resources.
>     >> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity
>     >> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility
>     management
>     >> may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the
>     lack of
>     >> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile
>     nodes by
>     >> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>     >
>     > I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though but
>     > the title "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what
>     does
>     > forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user centricity?
>
>     I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility
>     management
>     to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't mind seeing this explanatory
>     text
>     re-worded.
>
>     -Pete
>
>     >
>     > - Jouni
>     >
>     >
>     >>
>     >> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and
>     discussions
>     >> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
>     >> welcome.)
>     >>
>     >> H Anthony Chan
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> dmm mailing list
>     >> dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > dmm mailing list
>     > dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     dmm mailing list
>     dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>     _______________________________________________
>     dmm mailing list
>     dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     dmm mailing list
>     dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm


-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


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    Hello folks,<br>
    <br>
    It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for a
    new draft.<br>
    However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps
    worthy to<br>
    be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).<br>
    <br>
    Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Charlie P.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAC8QAcemFZdr=y3OdH2VM_AGH80yOUKHxsiThW6J=7_hxPj3ag@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Hi Jouni,<br>
      <br>
      What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and
      never ending discussions.<br>
      <br>
      Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard
      work and move on?<br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      <br>
      Behcet<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan <span
          dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com" target="_blank">h.anthony.chan@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Yes,
                  the second and third sentences are not additional
                  requirements, but rather explanations of the
                  requirement in the first sentence. Does the rewrite
                  sound better now:</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p>
              <div class="im"><tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
              </div>
              <div class="im"><tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide
                  transparency above the IP layer when needed. Such
                  transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or
                  entire mobile networks change their point of
                  attachment to the Internet, for the application flows
                  that cannot cope with a change of IP address.
                  Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP
                  address or prefix during handover may be declined.</tt><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">H
                  Anthony Chan</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">&nbsp;</span></p>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn" target="_blank">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a>
                    [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn" target="_blank">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a>]
                    <br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> h chan<br>
                    <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>;
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>;
                    jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> </span><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="ZH-CN">&#31572;&#22797;</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
                    Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to
                    Upper Layers</span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                    <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi
                      Anthony:</span>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The
                      last part of the sentence (i.e.
                    </span><tt><i>but the need to maintain a stable home
                        IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as
                        default</i>.</tt><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">)
                      seems a littel strange to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just
                      describes under what circumstances the </span><tt>transparency
                      is needed (i.e. <i>when the mobile hosts or
                        entire mobile networks change their point of
                        attachment to the Internet, for the application
                        flows that cannot cope with a change of IP
                        address</i>), that means automatically,
                      otherwise the transparency is not needed. So why
                      bother to write the </tt><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">last
                      part of the</span><tt> sentence<span lang="ZH-CN">&#65311;</span></tt>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home
                      network, it will obviously get a home IP
                      address/prefix from its home network. The IP
                      address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as
                      long as the mobile does not change its point of
                      attachment.
                    </tt><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The
                      last part of the sentence will just exclude this
                      scenario.</span>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">If
                      I make any mistake, please correct me.</span>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks</span>
                    <br>
                    <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Luowen</span>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                  </p>
                  <table style="width:100.0%" border="0" cellpadding="0"
                    cellspacing="3" width="100%">
                    <tbody>
                      <tr>
                        <td style="width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                          .75pt" valign="top" width="35%">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h
                                chan &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com"
                                  target="_blank">h.anthony.chan@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                            </span><br>
                            <span style="font-size:7.5pt" lang="ZH-CN">&#21457;
                              &#20214;&#20154;</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
                              &nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"
                                target="_blank">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></span>
                          </p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2012/06/06
                              01:12</span>
                          </p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                          .75pt" valign="top" width="64%">
                          <table style="width:100.0%" border="0"
                            cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%">
                            <tbody>
                              <tr>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-align:right"
                                    align="right"><span
                                      style="font-size:7.5pt"
                                      lang="ZH-CN">&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">"<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org"
                                        target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>"
                                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org"
                                        target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
                                      Peter McCann &lt;<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com"
                                        target="_blank">Peter.McCann@huawei.com</a>&gt;,
                                      jouni korhonen &lt;<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank">jouni.nospam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                  </p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-align:right"
                                    align="right"><span
                                      style="font-size:7.5pt"
                                      lang="ZH-CN">&#25220;&#36865;</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top"><br>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-align:right"
                                    align="right"><span
                                      style="font-size:7.5pt"
                                      lang="ZH-CN">&#20027;&#39064;</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re:
                                      [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:
                                      Transparency to Upper Layers</span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
                          <table border="0" cellpadding="0"
                            cellspacing="3">
                            <tbody>
                              <tr>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top"><br>
                                </td>
                                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                                  .75pt" valign="top"><br>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>Revise as follows:</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
                    <tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency
                      above the IP layer when needed. Such transparency
                      is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile
                      networks change their point of attachment to the
                      Internet, for the application flows that cannot
                      cope with a change of IP address, but the need to
                      maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD
                      NOT be taken as default.</tt><br>
                    <tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
                    <tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more
                      efficient use of network resources and more
                      efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP
                      home IP address when there is no such need.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
                    <tt>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"
                        target="_blank">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>
                      [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"
                        target="_blank">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On
                      Behalf Of h chan</tt><br>
                    <tt>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:51 PM</tt><br>
                    <tt>To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen</tt><br>
                    <tt>Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
                    <tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:
                      Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>An attempt to clean up the text so far:</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
                    <tt>The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency
                      above the IP layer when needed. Such transparency
                      is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile
                      networks change their point of attachment to the
                      Internet, for the application flows that cannot
                      cope with a change of IP address, but SHOULD NOT
                      be taken as the default behavior.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
                    <tt>The goal of this requirement is to enable more
                      efficient use of network resources and more
                      efficient routing when mobility support is
                      implemented by not invoking it for the application
                      flows and nodes that do not need it.
                    </tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
                    <tt>PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes
                      not needing mobility support </tt>
                    <br>
                    <tt>IP mobility support is not always required. For
                      example, some applications do not need a stable IP
                      address during handover, i.e. IP session
                      continuity. Sometimes, the entire application
                      session runs while the terminal does not change
                      the point of attachment. In these situations that
                      do not require IP mobility support, network
                      resources are wasted when including additional
                      info to the mobility context to support the change
                      the point of attachment. Network resources are
                      also wasted when the via routes are set up for
                      many MNs that do not require IP mobility support.</tt><br>
                    <tt>OTHER related problem</tt><br>
                    <tt>O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with
                      peer-to-peer communication</tt><br>
                    <tt>While mobility management enables a mobile host
                      to be reachable, the hosts may then communicate
                      directly so that the mobility support is no longer
                      needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the
                      default behavior will waste network resources.
                    </tt><br>
                    <tt>O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
                    <tt>Centralized deployment compared with distributed
                      mobility management may be less capable to support
                      user-centricity. Example in the lack of
                      user-centricity is to provide mobility support to
                      all mobile nodes by default regardless of whether
                      the user needs it or not.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
                    <tt>From: Peter McCann </tt><br>
                    <tt>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 9:35 AM</tt><br>
                    <tt>To: jouni korhonen; h chan</tt><br>
                    <tt>Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
                    <tt>Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:
                      Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>Hi, Jouni,</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>jouni korhonen wrote:</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; Few comments/questions here:</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote:</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL enable
                      transparency above the IP layer. Such</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; transparency is needed for the
                      application flows that cannot cope with</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile
                      hosts or entire mobile networks</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the
                      Internet, but SHOULD NOT be</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior.</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as
                      the default behavior" seem</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; to conflict. So, what is really meant here?
                      Does this mean something</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of
                      solution? Or can one leave</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; transparency completely away if the
                      applications/hosts just don't care</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; whether IP changes or not?</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>I think the latter. &nbsp;If the applications don't
                      care about transparency,</tt><br>
                    <tt>then we don't need to pay for it with state and
                      signaling in the network.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>However, we know that some applications do care,
                      so it SHALL be possible</tt><br>
                    <tt>to provide it.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; The goal of this requirement is to</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; enable more efficient use of network
                      resources and more efficient</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; routing by not invoking mobility
                      support when there is no such need.</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; Does this still mean the mobility support
                      must be implement even if it</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; is not used?</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>We need some strategy for keeping an IP address
                      through some amount of</tt><br>
                    <tt>mobility. &nbsp;However, we needn't optimize the
                      network for this case as it</tt><br>
                    <tt>might be rather uncommon to keep an address for
                      a very long period of</tt><br>
                    <tt>time.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; RELEVANT problem:</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting resources to support
                      mobile nodes not needing mobility</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not
                      always required. For example,</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; some</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; applications do not need a stable IP
                      address during handover, i.e. IP</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; session continuity. Sometimes, the
                      entire application session runs</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; while the terminal does not change the
                      point of attachment. In these</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; situations that do not require IP
                      mobility support, network resources</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; are wasted when mobility context is set
                      up. Network resources are also</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; wasted when the via routes are set up
                      for many MNs that do not require</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; IP mobility support.</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobility signaling overhead with
                      peer-to-peer communication</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; While mobility management enables a
                      mobile host to be reachable, the</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; hosts may then communicate directly so
                      that the mobility support is no</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; longer needed. Taking the need of
                      mobility support as the default</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; behavior will waste network resources.</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with
                      distributed mobility management</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; may be less capable to support
                      user-centricity. Example in the lack of</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility
                      support to all mobile nodes by</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user
                      needs it or not.</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the
                      motivation makes sense though but</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; the title "lack of user-centricity" is
                      somewhat confusing.. what does</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; forced/always-on mobility support has to do
                      with user centricity?</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor
                      the mobility management</tt><br>
                    <tt>to the needs of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn't mind
                      seeing this explanatory text</tt><br>
                    <tt>re-worded.</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>-Pete</tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; - Jouni</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with
                      contributions, inputs and discussions</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional
                      contributions and comments are most</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; welcome.)</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt;
                      _______________________________________________</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"
                        target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; </tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt;
                      _______________________________________________</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
                    <tt>&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                        target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a></tt><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
                    <tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
                    <tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org" target="_blank">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
                    <tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                    <tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
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                    <tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                    <br>
                  </p>
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              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
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        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
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</pre>
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    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.</pre>
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Luo,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I think =A1=B0</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">existing network deployments which are not DMM enablded</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B1
 are included in =A1=B0existing network deployments. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The end result is the com=
patibility with existing network deployment and end hosts. So whatever the =
dmm solution needs to do to ensure such compatibility. Do
 you agree?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@=
zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibil=
ity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Hi Anthony:</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between truste=
d
</span><tt>administrative domains</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> is good to me, and the in=
terworking with existing network deployments which are not DMM enablded is =
also very important. I believe we have already have consistency
 about this. &nbsp;So, how about mergering this two parts as following ?</s=
pan> <br>
<br>
<tt>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------</tt>
<br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (=
e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility p=
rotocols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers=
 that do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken. Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed betw=
een trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the =
security measures deployed between
 these domains.</tt> <br>
<tt>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------</tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Hope this make sense.</tt> <br>
<br>
<tt>BR</tt> <br>
<tt>Luowen</tt> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">: &nbsp;dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:26</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, jouni korhonen &lt;jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Replacing REQ-4 with the following:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-4: compatibility</tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adm=
inistrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measur=
es deployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end host=
s also SHOULD NOT break.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h=
 chan</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM</tt><br>
<tt>To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-4: compatibility </tt><br>
<tt>The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (=
e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility p=
rotocols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers=
 that do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken.</tt><br>
<tt>REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)</tt><br>
<tt>Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing=
 network deployments and end hosts.
</tt><br>
<tt>OTHER related problem</tt><br>
<tt>O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of =
MIP</tt><br>
<tt>Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. Whe=
n introducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solut=
ions are more vulnerable to break.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: Peter McCann </tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM</tt><br>
<tt>To: jouni korhonen; h chan</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Hi, Jouni,</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>jouni korhonen wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment wi=
th</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; IPv6</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with ot=
her</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or t=
he</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling prot=
ocol so</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are unaffected.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able t=
o work</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and f=
lattened</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses e=
nough</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so that the exi=
sting</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Isn't the motivation just &quot;SHALL not break existing network</=
tt><br>
<tt>&gt; deployments and end hosts&quot; ?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the soluti=
ons</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; developed in DMM.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a strategy fo=
r</tt><br>
<tt>backwards compatibility.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-Pete</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>&gt; - JOuni</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too m=
any</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with =
many</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicit=
y,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and dis=
cussions</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are=
 most</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; welcome.)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</tt><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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Hello Pete,

Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.

I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM
requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security
mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.

Regards,
Charlie P.


On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
> I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your
> comment, Charles.  For instance, he removed the text that said,
> "should not be considered the default."  Are you ok with his new
> proposed text?  If not, can you propose text that you would like?
>
> -Pete
>
> Charles E. Perkins wrote:
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for a 
>> new draft.
>> However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps 
>> worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).
>>
>> Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Charlie P.
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
>>
>> 	Hi Jouni,
>>
>> 	What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never 
>> ending discussions.
>>
>> 	Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard 
>> work and move on?
>>
>> 	Regards,
>>
>> 	Behcet
>>
>>
>> 	On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 		Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional requirements, 
>> but rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. Does 
>> the rewrite sound better now:
>>
>>
>>
>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>
>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when 
>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire 
>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for 
>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address.
>> Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix 
>> during handover may be declined.
>>
>>
>>
>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>
>>
>>
>> 		From: luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
>> 		Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
>> 		To: h chan
>> 		Cc: dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann
>> 		Subject: ´ð¸´: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:
>> Transparency to Upper Layers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 		Hi Anthony:
>>
>> 		The last part of the sentence (i.e. but the need to maintain a 
>> stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as
>> default.) seems a littel strange to me.  REQ-2 just describes under 
>> what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the mobile 
>> hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to 
>> the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change 
>> of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the transparency 
>> is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the sentence£¿
>>
>> 		Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will 
>> obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP 
>> address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile 
>> does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the sentence 
>> will just exclude this scenario.
>>
>> 		If I make any mistake, please correct me.
>>
>> 		Thanks
>> 		Luowen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>> ·¢ ¼þÈË:  dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>>
>> 2012/06/06 01:12
>>
>> ÊÕ¼þÈË
>>
>> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, 
>> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
>>
>> ³­ËÍ
>>
>>
>>
>> Ö÷Ìâ
>>
>> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 		Revise as follows:
>>
>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when 
>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire 
>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for 
>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, 
>> but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT 
>> be taken as default.
>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of 
>> network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a 
>> stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
>>
>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>
>>
>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>> [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h chan 		Sent: Wednesday, May
>> 23, 2012 7:51 PM 		To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen 		Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>> 		Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper 
>> Layers
>>
>> 		An attempt to clean up the text so far:
>>
>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when 
>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire 
>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for 
>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, 
>> but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.
>>
>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of 
>> network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support is 
>> implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes 
>> that do not need it.
>>
>> 		RELEVANT problem: 		PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not
>> needing mobility support 		IP mobility support is not always required.
>> For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address during 
>> handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire 
>> application session runs while the terminal does not change the point of attachment.
>> In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, network 
>> resources are wasted when including additional info to the mobility 
>> context to support the change the point of attachment. Network 
>> resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not
>> require IP mobility support. 		OTHER related problem 		O-PS1: Mobility
>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		While mobility
>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts may then 
>> communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer needed.
>> Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will waste
>> network resources. 		O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity 		Centralized
>> deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be less 
>> capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of 
>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by 
>> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>>
>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>
>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: Peter McCann 		Sent: Friday, May
>> 18, 2012 9:35 AM 		To: jouni korhonen; h chan 		Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>> 		Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper 
>> Layers
>>
>> 		Hi, Jouni,
>>
>> 		jouni korhonen wrote: 		> 		> Few comments/questions here: 		> 		> On
>> May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: 		> 		>> REQ-2: Transparency to
>> Upper Layers 		>> The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the
>> IP layer. Such 		>> transparency is needed for the application flows
>> that cannot cope with 		>> a change of IP address and when mobile hosts
>> or entire mobile networks 		>> change their point of attachment to the
>> Internet, but SHOULD NOT be 		>> taken as the default behavior. 		> 		>
>> "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" seem
>> 		> to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something
>> 		> like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave
>> 		> transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don't
>> care 		> whether IP changes or not?
>>
>> 		I think the latter.  If the applications don't care about
>> transparency, 		then we don't need to pay for it with state and
>> signaling in the network.
>>
>> 		However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be
>> possible 		to provide it.
>>
>> 		>> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2) 		>> The goal of this requirement is
>> to 		>> enable more efficient use of network resources and more
>> efficient 		>> routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no
>> such need. 		> 		> Does this still mean the mobility support must be
>> implement even if it 		> is not used?
>>
>> 		We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of
>> 		mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for this case as
>> it 		might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period
>> of 		time.
>>
>> 		>> RELEVANT problem: 		>> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile
>> nodes not needing mobility 		>> support IP mobility support is not
>> always required. For example, 		>> some 		>> applications do not need a
>> stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP 		>> session continuity.
>> Sometimes, the entire application session runs 		>> while the terminal
>> does not change the point of attachment. In these 		>> situations that
>> do not require IP mobility support, network resources 		>> are wasted
>> when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also 		>> wasted
>> when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require 		>> IP
>> mobility support. 		>> 		>> OTHER related problem 		>> O-PS1: Mobility
>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		>> While mobility
>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the 		>> hosts may
>> then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no 		>> longer
>> needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default 		>> behavior
>> will waste network resources. 		>> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity 		>>
>> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management
>> 		>> may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack
>> of 		>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile
>> nodes by 		>> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>> 		> 		> I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though
>> but 		> the title "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what
>> does 		> forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user
>> centricity?
>>
>> 		I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility
>> management 		to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't mind seeing this
>> explanatory text 		re-worded.
>>
>> 		-Pete
>>
>> 		> 		> - Jouni 		> 		> 		>> 		>> (The above has been drafted with
>> contributions, inputs and discussions 		>> from various people.
>> Additional contributions and comments are most 		>> welcome.) 		>> 		>>
>> H Anthony Chan 		>> 		>> 		>>
>> _______________________________________________ 		>> dmm mailing list
>> 		>> dmm@ietf.org 		>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm 		> 		>
>> _______________________________________________ 		> dmm mailing list 		>
>> dmm@ietf.org 		> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> 		dmm mailing list
>> 		dmm@ietf.org
>> 		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun  7 17:09:58 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Cc: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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I think the intention is to allow interworking between 2 operators' network=
 domains if the operators choose to do so. Yet operators may not choose to =
do that. So the DMM solution can only enable such choice. Also, it can do t=
hat only if the security measures allow.=20

How about the following:

The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domai=
ns when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fu=
rthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts.=20

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:56 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

Hello folks,

On 6/5/2012 10:26 AM, h chan wrote:
> Replacing REQ-4 with the following:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted admin=
istrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures=
 deployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts =
also SHOULD NOT break.

I understand the intent, but specifying that something "SHOULD NOT break"
seems almost like berating the children.

How about:

"The DMM solution is required to work between trusted administrative domain=
s
   and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed=20
between
   these domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution must preserve backwards
   compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts."

I have two more issues:

- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security=20
measures.
- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the=20
"SHOULD"
   in the above text is somehow incorrect.

I'm not sure exactly how best to resolve these latter two issues, but=20
before I
try to make a resolution, I thought it would be good to raise the issue=20
on this
list for possible further discussion.

--=20
Regards,
Charlie P.


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--=_alternative 00092DAD48257A17_=--


From karagian@cs.utwente.nl  Thu Jun  7 20:43:04 2012
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From: <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
To: <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>, <charliep@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
Thread-Index: AQHNLHwQlfhYg5OeU0G1Ca5Rw8uwqJbOl/KAgAD7XYCACIPBAIAT7wWAgABcDwCAAzjYAIAAWjmB
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 03:43:00 +0000
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References: <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C1DDFB532@SZXEML505-MBS.china.huawei.com> <570967EC-D26C-4605-833F-267AD2C5AFD0@gmail.com> <5963DDF1F751474D8DEEFDCDBEE43AE716E0426B@dfweml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C1DE04DF1@SZXEML505-MBS.china.huawei.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C270B97F1@SZXEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4FCE8E68.5070208@computer.org>, <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C270B9CA8@SZXEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: Peter.McCann@huawei.com, dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Hi Anthony, Hi Charlie,

Regarding the operation between the trusted administrative domains, I think=
 that the DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrativ=
e domains, and not only "enable working" between such domains.

So the first sentence can become:
"The DMM solution SHOULD work between trusted administrative domains"

Regarding the  issues posted by Charlie:

>- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security
>measures.
>- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the "=
SHOULD"
>    in the above text is somehow incorrect.

Do you mean that the following sentence:
"SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed between
   these domains."" should change to:

"MUST allow inter-working with the security measures deployed between
   these domains."" should change to:"?


Best regards,
Georgios




________________________________________
Van: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [dmm-bounces@ietf.org] namens h chan [h.anthony.c=
han@huawei.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 8 juni 2012 2:07
Aan: Charles E. Perkins
CC: Peter McCann; dmm@ietf.org
Onderwerp: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

I think the intention is to allow interworking between 2 operators' network=
 domains if the operators choose to do so. Yet operators may not choose to =
do that. So the DMM solution can only enable such choice. Also, it can do t=
hat only if the security measures allow.

How about the following:

The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domai=
ns when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fu=
rthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:56 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

Hello folks,

On 6/5/2012 10:26 AM, h chan wrote:
> Replacing REQ-4 with the following:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted admin=
istrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures=
 deployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts =
also SHOULD NOT break.

I understand the intent, but specifying that something "SHOULD NOT break"
seems almost like berating the children.

How about:

"The DMM solution is required to work between trusted administrative domain=
s
   and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed
between
   these domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution must preserve backwards
   compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts."

I have two more issues:

- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security
measures.
- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the
"SHOULD"
   in the above text is somehow incorrect.

I'm not sure exactly how best to resolve these latter two issues, but
before I
try to make a resolution, I thought it would be good to raise the issue
on this
list for possible further discussion.

--
Regards,
Charlie P.

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm=

From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun  7 21:22:45 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "karagian@cs.utwente.nl" <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>, "charliep@computer.org" <charliep@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Cc: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Georgios,

I think "Should be able to work" is good. Whether it will actually work bet=
ween any two particular inter-operator domains is left to the decision of t=
he particular operators.=20

Regarding DMM will require security, I have already rephrased REQ-6 to "sha=
ll consider security," which is probably general enough.=20

So, my suggested text is the following:

REQ4:  Compatibility
The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrative doma=
ins when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. F=
urthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backward compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of karag=
ian@cs.utwente.nl
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 10:43 PM
To: h chan; charliep@computer.org
Cc: Peter McCann; dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

Hi Anthony, Hi Charlie,

Regarding the operation between the trusted administrative domains, I think=
 that the DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrativ=
e domains, and not only "enable working" between such domains.

So the first sentence can become:
"The DMM solution SHOULD work between trusted administrative domains"

Regarding the  issues posted by Charlie:

>- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security
>measures.
>- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the "=
SHOULD"
>    in the above text is somehow incorrect.

Do you mean that the following sentence:
"SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed between
   these domains."" should change to:

"MUST allow inter-working with the security measures deployed between
   these domains."" should change to:"?


Best regards,
Georgios




________________________________________
Van: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [dmm-bounces@ietf.org] namens h chan [h.anthony.c=
han@huawei.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 8 juni 2012 2:07
Aan: Charles E. Perkins
CC: Peter McCann; dmm@ietf.org
Onderwerp: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

I think the intention is to allow interworking between 2 operators' network=
 domains if the operators choose to do so. Yet operators may not choose to =
do that. So the DMM solution can only enable such choice. Also, it can do t=
hat only if the security measures allow.

How about the following:

The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domai=
ns when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fu=
rthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:56 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility

Hello folks,

On 6/5/2012 10:26 AM, h chan wrote:
> Replacing REQ-4 with the following:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted admin=
istrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures=
 deployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts =
also SHOULD NOT break.

I understand the intent, but specifying that something "SHOULD NOT break"
seems almost like berating the children.

How about:

"The DMM solution is required to work between trusted administrative domain=
s
   and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures deployed
between
   these domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution must preserve backwards
   compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts."

I have two more issues:

- You cannot guarantee inter-working with completely arbitrary security
measures.
- I am confident that the DMM solution will require security.  Thus, the
"SHOULD"
   in the above text is somehow incorrect.

I'm not sure exactly how best to resolve these latter two issues, but
before I
try to make a resolution, I thought it would be good to raise the issue
on this
list for possible further discussion.

--
Regards,
Charlie P.

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Thread-Topic: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Luowen,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I understand that we earl=
ier had a list of at least 3 requirements bundled inside this REQ-4. We are=
 now adding a 4th and possibly 5th into this list regarding
 inter-domain. So I try to simplify 3 of them by examining the end result: =
whether existing network deployment and end hosts will break.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">What the dmm solution nee=
ds to do will then depend on the environment in which it is deployed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0Other mobility prot=
ocols=A1=B1 can only refer to the existing mobility protocols that are alre=
ady deployed. It cannot refer to =A1=B0future protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any =
protocol
 in the literature which has not been deployed in the same environment in w=
hich dmm is being deployed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you want to be more sp=
ecific, I suggest to append an explanatory sentence to explain the requirem=
ent rather than adding more requirements to the list.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@=
zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compat=
ibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">H=
i Antony,</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Y=
es, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the exsiting networ=
k deployments. But only say &quot;Existing network deployment and end hosts=
 also SHOULD NOT break&quot; or &quot;the DMM solution SHOULD preserve
 backwards compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts&quo=
t; may not be very specific.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">h=
ow about </span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">T=
he DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domain=
s when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fur=
thermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility
 with existing network deployment and end hosts that do not support the DMM=
 enabling protocol.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A=
nd put those description such as &nbsp;&quot;The DMM solutions SHALL suppor=
t existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignm=
ent), be compatible with other mobility protocols, and be interoperable
 with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM e=
nabling protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are=
 not broken.&quot; into the motivation, e.g</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">M=
otivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure the DMM solution=
s to support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 addr=
ess assignment), to be compatible with other mobility
 protocols, and to be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/ro=
uters that do not support the DMM enabling protocol, so that the existing n=
etwork deployments and end hosts are not broken.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">D=
oes it make sense?</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">B=
R</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">L=
uowen</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/08 07:13</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;luo.wen=
@zte.com.cn&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, &quot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, jouni k=
orhonen &lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawe=
i.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: com=
patibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
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</td>
</tr>
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</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Luo,
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I think =A1=B0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">existing network=
 deployments which are not DMM enablded</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
=A1=B1
 are included in =A1=B0existing network deployments. </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The end result is the compatibility with existin=
g network deployment and end hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs to d=
o to ensure such compatibility. Do you agree?</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.=
wen@zte.com.cn]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b>=
<br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility=
</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
Hi Anthony:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"> <br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between trusted </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">administ=
rative domains</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> is good to me, and the interworking with e=
xisting
 network deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very important. I b=
elieve we have already have consistency about this. &nbsp;So, how about mer=
gering this two parts as following ?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken. Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed betw=
een trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the =
security measures deployed between
 these domains. <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
<br>
Hope this make sense. <br>
<br>
BR <br>
Luowen </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"25%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:25.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">: &nbsp;dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D"font-family=
:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:26</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"74%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:74.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"5%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, jouni korhonen &lt;jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
Replacing REQ-4 with the following:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility<br>
The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adminis=
trative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures d=
eployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts al=
so SHOULD NOT break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM<br>
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility <br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken.<br>
REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing net=
work deployments and end hosts.
<br>
OTHER related problem<br>
O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP<=
br>
Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. When in=
troducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solutions=
 are more vulnerable to break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter McCann <br>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM<br>
To: jouni korhonen; h chan<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
Hi, Jouni,<br>
<br>
jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility<br>
&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; IPv6<br>
&gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other<=
br>
&gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol=
 so<br>
&gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are unaffected.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
&gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to wo=
rk<br>
&gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flatt=
ened<br>
&gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enoug=
h<br>
&gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Isn't the motivation just &quot;SHALL not break existing network<br>
&gt; deployments and end hosts&quot; ?<br>
&gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions<=
br>
&gt; developed in DMM.<br>
<br>
I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a strategy for<br=
>
backwards compatibility.<br>
<br>
-Pete<br>
<br>
&gt; - JOuni<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many<=
br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many=
<br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of<br>
&gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,<b=
r>
&gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discuss=
ions<br>
&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are mos=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; welcome.)<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>, "luo.wen@zte.com.cn" <luo.wen@zte.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">How about the following:<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">REQ4:&nbsp; Compatibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>administrative domains when allowed by the security measures</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>deployed between these domains.&nbsp; Furthermore, the DMM solution</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with existing network</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>deployment and end hosts.&nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>For example</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;">, depending</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the dmm solutions</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>may need to be compatible with other existing mobility</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>protocols that are deployed in that environment or may need to</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>be interoperable with the networ</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">k</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"> or the mobile hosts/routers</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>that do not support the dmm enabling protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to allow=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>inter-domain operation if desired and to preserve</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>backwards comp</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;">a</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New&quot;">t</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;">i</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;">bility
 so that the existing networks and hosts</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>are not affected and do not break.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> h chan
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 11:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'luo.wen@zte.com.cn'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Luowen,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I understand that we earl=
ier had a list of at least 3 requirements bundled inside this REQ-4. We are=
 now adding a 4th and possibly 5th into this list regarding
 inter-domain. So I try to simplify 3 of them by examining the end result: =
whether existing network deployment and end hosts will break.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">What the dmm solution nee=
ds to do will then depend on the environment in which it is deployed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0Other mobility prot=
ocols=A1=B1 can only refer to the existing mobility protocols that are alre=
ady deployed. It cannot refer to =A1=B0future protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any =
protocol
 in the literature which has not been deployed in the same environment in w=
hich dmm is being deployed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If you want to be more sp=
ecific, I suggest to append an explanatory sentence to explain the requirem=
ent rather than adding more requirements to the list.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@=
zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compat=
ibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">H=
i Antony,</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Y=
es, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the exsiting networ=
k deployments. But only say &quot;Existing network deployment and end hosts=
 also SHOULD NOT break&quot; or &quot;the DMM solution SHOULD preserve
 backwards compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts&quo=
t; may not be very specific.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">h=
ow about </span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">T=
he DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domain=
s when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fur=
thermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility
 with existing network deployment and end hosts that do not support the DMM=
 enabling protocol.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">A=
nd put those description such as &nbsp;&quot;The DMM solutions SHALL suppor=
t existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignm=
ent), be compatible with other mobility protocols, and be interoperable
 with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM e=
nabling protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are=
 not broken.&quot; into the motivation, e.g</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">M=
otivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure the DMM solution=
s to support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 addr=
ess assignment), to be compatible with other mobility
 protocols, and to be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/ro=
uters that do not support the DMM enabling protocol, so that the existing n=
etwork deployments and end hosts are not broken.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">D=
oes it make sense?</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">B=
R</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">L=
uowen</span> <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/08 07:13</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;luo.wen=
@zte.com.cn&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, &quot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, jouni k=
orhonen &lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawe=
i.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: com=
patibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Luo,
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I think =A1=B0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">existing network=
 deployments which are not DMM enablded</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
=A1=B1
 are included in =A1=B0existing network deployments. </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The end result is the compatibility with existin=
g network deployment and end hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs to d=
o to ensure such compatibility. Do you agree?</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.=
wen@zte.com.cn]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b>=
<br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility=
</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
Hi Anthony:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"> <br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;"><br>
It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between trusted </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">administ=
rative domains</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> is good to me, and the interworking with e=
xisting
 network deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very important. I b=
elieve we have already have consistency about this. &nbsp;So, how about mer=
gering this two parts as following ?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken. Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed betw=
een trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the =
security measures deployed between
 these domains. <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
<br>
Hope this make sense. <br>
<br>
BR <br>
Luowen </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"25%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:25.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">: &nbsp;dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D"font-family=
:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:26</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"74%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:74.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"5%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, jouni korhonen &lt;jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;=
</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
Replacing REQ-4 with the following:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility<br>
The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adminis=
trative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures d=
eployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts al=
so SHOULD NOT break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM<br>
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility <br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken.<br>
REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing net=
work deployments and end hosts.
<br>
OTHER related problem<br>
O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP<=
br>
Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. When in=
troducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solutions=
 are more vulnerable to break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter McCann <br>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM<br>
To: jouni korhonen; h chan<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
Hi, Jouni,<br>
<br>
jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility<br>
&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; IPv6<br>
&gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other<=
br>
&gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol=
 so<br>
&gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are unaffected.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
&gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to wo=
rk<br>
&gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flatt=
ened<br>
&gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enoug=
h<br>
&gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Isn't the motivation just &quot;SHALL not break existing network<br>
&gt; deployments and end hosts&quot; ?<br>
&gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions<=
br>
&gt; developed in DMM.<br>
<br>
I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a strategy for<br=
>
backwards compatibility.<br>
<br>
-Pete<br>
<br>
&gt; - JOuni<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many<=
br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many=
<br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of<br>
&gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,<b=
r>
&gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discuss=
ions<br>
&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are mos=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; welcome.)<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I am answering the use of=
 SHALL and SHOULD in a separate email thread on the requirements in general=
: DMM draft requirement discussions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> tso@zteu=
sa.com [mailto:tso@zteusa.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 1:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Dear Anthony an=
d LuoWen,
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Sorry for jumping in late to this discussion. &nbsp;If I have missed =
some prior discussion and repeat the same question, please forgive me.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">I agree with Anthony's view that, &quot;</span><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">=A1=B0</span><=
span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#004080">Other mobility protocols=A1=B1
 can only refer to the existing mobility protocols that are already deploye=
d. It cannot refer to =A1=B0future protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any protocol in=
 the literature which has not been deployed in the same environment in whic=
h dmm is being deployed.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&quot;</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">However, when I refer to the current writing of the REQ#4:</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4: &nbsp;Compatibili=
ty</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD=
 be able to work between trusted administrative domains when allowed by the=
 security measures deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the D=
MM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility
 with existing network deployment and end hosts. &nbsp;For example, dependi=
ng on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the dmm solutions may need =
to be compatible with other existing mobility protocols that are deployed i=
n that environment or may need to be
 interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not sup=
port the dmm enabling protocol.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation: The motivat=
ion of this requirement is to allow inter-domain operation if desired and t=
o preserve backwards compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts =
are not affected and do not break.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">First question to ask is that, why the backward compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts is &quot;optional&quot;, and not &q=
uot;mandatory&quot;? &nbsp;Wouldn't the compatibility with the existing dep=
loyment
 be the &quot;fundamental&quot; requirement? &nbsp;Hence, the &quot;SHOULD&=
quot; needs to be changed to &quot;SHALL&quot;.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Secondly, IMHO, compatibility has two aspects:
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">(1) backward compatible with existing deployment that has been discus=
sed above, but also</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">(2) no impact with the mobile host but still able to enable the DMM s=
olution at the network</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">I don't believe that we are proposing the DMM solution requirement th=
at must require the mobile node's support, correct?
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">If we can agree on these two above fundamental sentiment, then, I wou=
ld like to suggest a friendly amendment to REQ4 as follows:</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4: &nbsp;Compatibili=
ty</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD=
 be able to work between trusted administrative domains when allowed by the=
 security measures deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the D=
MM solution
<b><u><span style=3D"color:red">SHALL</span></u></b><span style=3D"color:re=
d"> </span>
preserve backwards compatibility with existing network deployment and end h=
osts. &nbsp;For example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deplo=
yed, the dmm solutions
<b><u><span style=3D"color:red">SHALL BE</span></u></b><span style=3D"color=
:red"> </span>
compatible with other existing mobility protocols that are deployed in that=
 environment or
<b><u><span style=3D"color:red">SHOULD BE </span></u></b>interoperable with=
 the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the dmm enabli=
ng protocol.
<b><u><span style=3D"color:red">In addition, it SHOULD BE feasible to enabl=
e DMM network solution without the necessity to impact the existing mobile =
hosts.</span></u></b>
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation: The motivat=
ion of this requirement is to allow inter-domain operation if desired and t=
o preserve backwards compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts =
are not affected and do not break.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; </span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Hoping that you can accept these changes. &nbsp;Thanks in advance.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Tricci </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">Sent by: dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">06/07/2012 09:41 PM</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;luo.wen=
@zte.com.cn&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm-b=
ounces@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;, Peter M=
cCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">Luowen,</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">I understand that we earlier had a list of at least 3 requirement=
s bundled inside this REQ-4. We are now adding a 4th and possibly 5th into =
this list regarding inter-domain. So I try to simplify
 3 of them by examining the end result: whether existing network deployment=
 and end hosts will break.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">What the dmm solution needs to do will then depend on the environ=
ment in which it is deployed.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">=A1=B0Other mobility protocols=A1=B1 can only refer to the existi=
ng mobility protocols that are already deployed. It cannot refer to =A1=B0f=
uture protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any protocol in the literature which has not=
 been
 deployed in the same environment in which dmm is being deployed. </span><b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">If you want to be more specific, I suggest to append an explanato=
ry sentence to explain the requirement rather than adding more requirements=
 to the list.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">H Anthony Chan</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@zte.com.cn [</span><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</sp=
an></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b>=
<br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibi=
lity</span>
<br>
&nbsp; <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
Hi Antony,</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
Yes, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the exsiting netwo=
rk deployments. But only say &quot;Existing network deployment and end host=
s also SHOULD NOT break&quot; or &quot;the DMM solution SHOULD preserve bac=
kwards compatibility with existing network deployment
 and end hosts&quot; may not be very specific.</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
how about </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domai=
ns when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fu=
rthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end
 hosts that do not support the DMM enabling protocol. </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
And put those description such as &nbsp;&quot;The DMM solutions SHALL suppo=
rt existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assign=
ment), be compatible with other mobility protocols, and be interoperable wi=
th the network or the mobile hosts/routers
 that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so that the existing network=
 deployments and end hosts are not broken.&quot; into the motivation, e.g</=
span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure the DMM solutio=
ns to support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 add=
ress assignment), to be compatible with other mobility protocols, and to be=
 interoperable with the network
 or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol,=
 so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.</sp=
an>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
Does it make sense?</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><=
br>
BR</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;"><br>
Luowen</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width=3D"19%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:19.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/08 07:13</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width=3D"80%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:80.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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<td width=3D"3%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"96%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:96.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot; &lt;luo.wen=
@zte.com.cn&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, &quot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;, jouni k=
orhonen &lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawe=
i.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: com=
patibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
Luo, <br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
I think =A1=B0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">existing network deployments which are not =
DMM enablded</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">=A1=B1 are included in =A1=B0=
existing network
 deployments. <br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
The end result is the compatibility with existing network deployment and en=
d hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs to do to ensure such compatibil=
ity. Do you agree?</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
H Anthony Chan</span> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">
<br>
</span>&nbsp;<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> luo.wen@zte.com.cn [</span><a href=3D"mailto:l=
uo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span></a><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b>=
<br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility=
</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
Hi Anthony:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between trusted </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">administ=
rative domains</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> is good to me, and the interworking with e=
xisting
 network deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very important. I b=
elieve we have already have consistency about this. &nbsp;So, how about mer=
gering this two parts as following ?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken. Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed betw=
een trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the =
security measures deployed between
 these domains. <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
<br>
Hope this make sense. <br>
<br>
BR <br>
Luowen </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"25%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:25.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt"><br>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: &nbsp;dmm-=
bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:26</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"74%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:74.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"5%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, jouni korhonen &lt;jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br=
>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Replacing REQ-4 with the following:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility<br>
The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adminis=
trative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures d=
eployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts al=
so SHOULD NOT break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [</span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto=
:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">] On Behalf Of h chan<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM<br>
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility <br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken.<br>
REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing net=
work deployments and end hosts.
<br>
OTHER related problem<br>
O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP<=
br>
Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. When in=
troducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solutions=
 are more vulnerable to break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter McCann <br>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM<br>
To: jouni korhonen; h chan<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org<br>
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
Hi, Jouni,<br>
<br>
jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility<br>
&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; IPv6<br>
&gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other<=
br>
&gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol=
 so<br>
&gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are unaffected.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
&gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to wo=
rk<br>
&gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flatt=
ened<br>
&gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enoug=
h<br>
&gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Isn't the motivation just &quot;SHALL not break existing network<br>
&gt; deployments and end hosts&quot; ?<br>
&gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions<=
br>
&gt; developed in DMM.<br>
<br>
I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a strategy for<br=
>
backwards compatibility.<br>
<br>
-Pete<br>
<br>
&gt; - JOuni<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many<=
br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many=
<br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of<br>
&gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,<b=
r>
&gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discuss=
ions<br>
&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are mos=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; welcome.)<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org<br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">______=
_________________________________________</span></tt><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt=
></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;informat=
ion&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;atta=
chment&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;herewith)&nbsp;is&nbsp;privileged&nbsp;and&nbs=
p;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;is&nbsp;intended&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;exclus=
ive&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;addressee(s).&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbs=
p;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;an&nbsp;intended&nbsp;recipient,&nbsp;any&nbsp;disclosu=
re,&nbsp;reproduction,&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;or&nbsp;other&nbsp;disseminat=
ion&nbsp;or&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;=
is&nbsp;strictly&nbsp;prohibited.&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;rec=
eived&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;in&nbsp;error,&nbsp;please&nbsp;delete&nbsp;=
it&nbsp;and&nbsp;notify&nbsp;us&nbsp;immediately.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
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Hello folks,

Why don't we use "MUST" and not "SHALL" when specifying mandatory features?

There are a lot of people who might interpret "SHALL" to mean "SHOULD", 
and I
don't see any reason to choose language that might be confusing.

Regards,
Charlie P.


On 6/8/2012 8:11 AM, h chan wrote:
>
> I am answering the use of SHALL and SHOULD in a separate email thread 
> on the requirements in general: DMM draft requirement discussions.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> *From:*tso@zteusa.com [mailto:tso@zteusa.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2012 1:17 AM
> *To:* h chan
> *Cc:* dmm@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
> Dear Anthony and LuoWen,
>
> Sorry for jumping in late to this discussion.  If I have missed some 
> prior discussion and repeat the same question, please forgive me.
>
> I agree with Anthony's view that, ""Other mobility protocols" can only 
> refer to the existing mobility protocols that are already deployed. It 
> cannot refer to "future protocols" or "any protocol in the literature 
> which has not been deployed in the same environment in which dmm is 
> being deployed.  "
>
> However, when I refer to the current writing of the REQ#4:
> >>>>>
> REQ4:  Compatibility
>
> The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrative 
> domains when allowed by the security measures deployed between these 
> domains.  Furthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards 
> compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts.  For 
> example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the 
> dmm solutions may need to be compatible with other existing mobility 
> protocols that are deployed in that environment or may need to be 
> interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not 
> support the dmm enabling protocol.
>
> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to allow 
> inter-domain operation if desired and to preserve backwards 
> compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts are not affected 
> and do not break.
> >>>>>
>
> First question to ask is that, why the backward compatibility with 
> existing network deployment and end hosts is "optional", and not 
> "mandatory"?  Wouldn't the compatibility with the existing deployment 
> be the "fundamental" requirement?  Hence, the "SHOULD" needs to be 
> changed to "SHALL".
>
> Secondly, IMHO, compatibility has two aspects:
> (1) backward compatible with existing deployment that has been 
> discussed above, but also
> (2) no impact with the mobile host but still able to enable the DMM 
> solution at the network
>
> I don't believe that we are proposing the DMM solution requirement 
> that must require the mobile node's support, correct?
>
> If we can agree on these two above fundamental sentiment, then, I 
> would like to suggest a friendly amendment to REQ4 as follows:
> >>>>>
> REQ4:  Compatibility
>
> The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrative 
> domains when allowed by the security measures deployed between these 
> domains.  Furthermore, the DMM solution *_SHALL_*preserve backwards 
> compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts.  For 
> example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the 
> dmm solutions *_SHALL BE_*compatible with other existing mobility 
> protocols that are deployed in that environment or *_SHOULD BE 
> _*interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do 
> not support the dmm enabling protocol. *_In addition, it SHOULD BE 
> feasible to enable DMM network solution without the necessity to 
> impact the existing mobile hosts._*
>
> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to allow 
> inter-domain operation if desired and to preserve backwards 
> compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts are not affected 
> and do not break.
> >>>>>
>
> Hoping that you can accept these changes.  Thanks in advance.
> Tricci
>
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
> Sent by: dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>
> 06/07/2012 09:41 PM
>
> 	
>
> To
>
> 	
>
> "luo.wen@zte.com.cn" <luo.wen@zte.com.cn>
>
> cc
>
> 	
>
> "dmm-bounces@ietf.org" <dmm-bounces@ietf.org>, "dmm@ietf.org" 
> <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>
>
> Subject
>
> 	
>
> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
> Luowen,
>
> I understand that we earlier had a list of at least 3 requirements 
> bundled inside this REQ-4. We are now adding a 4th and possibly 5th 
> into this list regarding inter-domain. So I try to simplify 3 of them 
> by examining the end result: whether existing network deployment and 
> end hosts will break.
>
> What the dmm solution needs to do will then depend on the environment 
> in which it is deployed.
>
> "Other mobility protocols" can only refer to the existing mobility 
> protocols that are already deployed. It cannot refer to "future 
> protocols" or "any protocol in the literature which has not been 
> deployed in the same environment in which dmm is being deployed.
>
> If you want to be more specific, I suggest to append an explanatory 
> sentence to explain the requirement rather than adding more 
> requirements to the list.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> *From:*luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM*
> To:* h chan*
> Cc:* dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann*
> Subject:* ??: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
>
> Hi Antony,
>
> Yes, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the exsiting 
> network deployments. But only say "Existing network deployment and end 
> hosts also SHOULD NOT break" or "the DMM solution SHOULD preserve 
> backwards compatibility with existing network deployment and end 
> hosts" may not be very specific.
>
> how about
>
> The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative 
> domains when allowed by the security measures deployed between these 
> domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards 
> compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts that do 
> not support the DMM enabling protocol.
>
> And put those description such as  "The DMM solutions SHALL support 
> existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address 
> assignment), be compatible with other mobility protocols, and be 
> interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not 
> support the DMM enabling protocol so that the existing network 
> deployments and end hosts are not broken." into the motivation, e.g
>
> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure the DMM 
> solutions to support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. 
> existing IPv6 address assignment), to be compatible with other 
> mobility protocols, and to be interoperable with the network or the 
> mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol, so 
> that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.
>
> Does it make sense?
>
> BR
> Luowen
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
>
> 2012/06/08 07:13
>
> 	
>
> ???
>
> 	
>
> "luo.wen@zte.com.cn" <luo.wen@zte.com.cn>
>
> ??
>
> 	
>
> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, "dmm-bounces@ietf.org" 
> <dmm-bounces@ietf.org>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, Peter 
> McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>
>
> ??
>
> 	
>
> RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
> Luo,
>
> I think "existing network deployments which are not DMM enablded" are 
> included in "existing network deployments.
>
> The end result is the compatibility with existing network deployment 
> and end hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs to do to ensure such 
> compatibility. Do you agree?
>
> H Anthony Chan
> *
> From:*luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn] *
> Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM*
> To:* h chan*
> Cc:* dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann*
> Subject:* ??: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
>
> Hi Anthony:
>
> It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between trusted 
> administrative domainsis good to me, and the interworking with 
> existing network deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very 
> important. I believe we have already have consistency about this.  So, 
> how about mergering this two parts as following ?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 
> (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other 
> mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the 
> mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so 
> that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken. 
> Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed 
> between trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working 
> with the security measures deployed between these domains.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
>
> Hope this make sense.
>
> BR
> Luowen
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
> ???:  dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>
> 2012/06/06 01:26
>
> 	
>
> ???
>
> 	
>
> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, 
> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
>
> ??
>
> 	
>
> ??
>
> 	
>
> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
> Replacing REQ-4 with the following:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted 
> administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the 
> security measures deployed between these domains. Existing network 
> deployment and end hosts also SHOULD NOT break.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
> h chan
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM
> To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
> An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:
>
> REQ-4: compatibility
> The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 
> (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other 
> mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the 
> mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so 
> that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.
> REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)
> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break 
> existing network deployments and end hosts.
> OTHER related problem
> O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP
> Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. 
> When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity, 
> existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter McCann
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM
> To: jouni korhonen; h chan
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
>
> Hi, Jouni,
>
> jouni korhonen wrote:
> >
> > On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:
> >
> >> REQ-4: compatibility
> >> The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with
> >> IPv6
> >> (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other
> >> mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the
> >> mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so
> >> that the existing network deployments are unaffected.
> >>
> >> REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)
> >> Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to work
> >> with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flattened
> >> networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enough
> >> flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existing
> >> networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.
> >
> > Isn't the motivation just "SHALL not break existing network
> > deployments and end hosts" ?
> > Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions
> > developed in DMM.
>
> I think that's a reasonable simplification.  We need a strategy for
> backwards compatibility.
>
> -Pete
>
> > - JOuni
> >
> >>
> >> OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many
> >> variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many
> >> variants and extensions of
> > MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,
> > existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.
> >>
> >> (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions
> >> from various people. Additional contributions and comments are most
> >> welcome.)
> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dmm mailing list
> > dmm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


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    <br>
    Hello folks,<br>
    <br>
    Why don't we use "MUST" and not "SHALL" when specifying mandatory
    features?<br>
    <br>
    There are a lot of people who might interpret "SHALL" to mean
    "SHOULD", and I<br>
    don't see any reason to choose language that might be confusing.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Charlie P.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 6/8/2012 8:11 AM, h chan wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C270B9DF2@SZXEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I
            am answering the use of SHALL and SHOULD in a separate email
            thread on the requirements in general: DMM draft requirement
            discussions.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H
            Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
              <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">tso@zteusa.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">mailto:tso@zteusa.com</a>]
              <br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 1:17 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> h chan<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4:
              compatibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Dear
            Anthony and LuoWen,
          </span><br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Sorry
            for jumping in late to this discussion. &nbsp;If I have missed
            some prior discussion and repeat the same question, please
            forgive me.
          </span><br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">I
            agree with Anthony's view that, "</span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">&#8220;</span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">Other
            mobility protocols&#8221; can only refer to the existing mobility
            protocols that are already deployed. It cannot refer to
            &#8220;future protocols&#8221; or &#8220;any protocol in the literature which
            has not been deployed in the same environment in which dmm
            is being deployed.
          </span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;"</span>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">However,
            when I refer to the current writing of the REQ#4:</span>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span>
          <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4:
            &nbsp;Compatibility</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM
            solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted
            administrative domains when allowed by the security measures
            deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the DMM
            solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with
            existing network deployment and end hosts. &nbsp;For example,
            depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the
            dmm solutions may need to be compatible with other existing
            mobility protocols that are deployed in that environment or
            may need to be interoperable with the network or the mobile
            hosts/routers that do not support the dmm enabling protocol.</span>
          <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation:
            The motivation of this requirement is to allow inter-domain
            operation if desired and to preserve backwards compatibility
            so that the existing networks and hosts are not affected and
            do not break.</span>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">First
            question to ask is that, why the backward compatibility with
            existing network deployment and end hosts is "optional", and
            not "mandatory"? &nbsp;Wouldn't the compatibility with the
            existing deployment be the "fundamental" requirement?
            &nbsp;Hence, the "SHOULD" needs to be changed to "SHALL".</span>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Secondly,
            IMHO, compatibility has two aspects:
          </span><br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">(1)
            backward compatible with existing deployment that has been
            discussed above, but also</span>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">(2)
            no impact with the mobile host but still able to enable the
            DMM solution at the network</span>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">I
            don't believe that we are proposing the DMM solution
            requirement that must require the mobile node's support,
            correct?
          </span><br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">If
            we can agree on these two above fundamental sentiment, then,
            I would like to suggest a friendly amendment to REQ4 as
            follows:</span>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span>
          <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4:
            &nbsp;Compatibility</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM
            solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted
            administrative domains when allowed by the security measures
            deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the DMM
            solution
            <b><u><span style="color:red">SHALL</span></u></b><span
              style="color:red"> </span>
            preserve backwards compatibility with existing network
            deployment and end hosts. &nbsp;For example, depending on the
            environment in which dmm is deployed, the dmm solutions
            <b><u><span style="color:red">SHALL BE</span></u></b><span
              style="color:red"> </span>
            compatible with other existing mobility protocols that are
            deployed in that environment or
            <b><u><span style="color:red">SHOULD BE </span></u></b>interoperable
            with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not
            support the dmm enabling protocol.
            <b><u><span style="color:red">In addition, it SHOULD BE
                  feasible to enable DMM network solution without the
                  necessity to impact the existing mobile hosts.</span></u></b>
          </span><br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation:
            The motivation of this requirement is to allow inter-domain
            operation if desired and to preserve backwards compatibility
            so that the existing networks and hosts are not affected and
            do not break.</span>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
          </span><br>
          <br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Hoping
            that you can accept these changes. &nbsp;Thanks in advance.
          </span><br>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Tricci
          </span><br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%" border="0"
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                valign="top" width="35%">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h
                      chan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a></span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  </span><br>
                  <span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Sent
                    by: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></span>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">06/07/2012
                    09:41 PM</span>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
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                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">"luo.wen@zte.com.cn"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&lt;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&gt;</a></span>
                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">"dmm-bounces@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a></span>
                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re:
                            [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"
                  cellspacing="3">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top"><br>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top"><br>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">Luowen,</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">I
            understand that we earlier had a list of at least 3
            requirements bundled inside this REQ-4. We are now adding a
            4th and possibly 5th into this list regarding inter-domain.
            So I try to simplify 3 of them by examining the end result:
            whether existing network deployment and end hosts will
            break.
          </span><br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">What
            the dmm solution needs to do will then depend on the
            environment in which it is deployed.
          </span><br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&#8220;Other
            mobility protocols&#8221; can only refer to the existing mobility
            protocols that are already deployed. It cannot refer to
            &#8220;future protocols&#8221; or &#8220;any protocol in the literature which
            has not been deployed in the same environment in which dmm
            is being deployed. </span><br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">If
            you want to be more specific, I suggest to append an
            explanatory sentence to explain the requirement rather than
            adding more requirements to the list.
          </span><br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">H
            Anthony Chan</span>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
          <br>
          <b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a> [</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
            <b><br>
              Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM<b><br>
              To:</b> h chan<b><br>
              Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>; jouni
            korhonen; Peter McCann<b><br>
              Subject:</b> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"
            lang="ZH-CN">&#31572;&#22797;</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
            RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</span>
          <br>
          &nbsp; <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            Hi Antony,</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            Yes, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the
            exsiting network deployments. But only say "Existing network
            deployment and end hosts also SHOULD NOT break" or "the DMM
            solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with
            existing network deployment and end hosts" may not be very
            specific.</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            how about </span><br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted
            administrative domains when allowed by the security measures
            deployed between these domains. Furthermore, the DMM
            solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with
            existing network deployment and end hosts that do not
            support the DMM enabling protocol. </span><br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            And put those description such as &nbsp;"The DMM solutions SHALL
            support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing
            IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility
            protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the
            mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling
            protocol so that the existing network deployments and end
            hosts are not broken." into the motivation, e.g</span>
          <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure
            the DMM solutions to support existing network deployment
            with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), to be
            compatible with other mobility protocols, and to be
            interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers
            that do not support the DMM enabling protocol, so that the
            existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.</span>
          <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            Does it make sense?</span> <br>
          <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            BR</span> <span style="font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
            Luowen</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%" border="0"
          cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:19.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                valign="top" width="19%">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h
                      chan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a></span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2012/06/08
                    07:13</span>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
              </td>
              <td style="width:80.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                valign="top" width="80%">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%"
                  border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"
                  width="100%">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="width:3.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="3%">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:96.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="96%">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">"luo.wen@zte.com.cn"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&lt;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&gt;</a></span>
                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#25220;&#36865;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">"dmm-bounces@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>, jouni korhonen
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">&lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a></span>
                          <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#20027;&#39064;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE:
                            Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4:
                            compatibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  &nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                <table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"
                  cellspacing="3">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top"><br>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top"><br>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p><br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
            Luo, <br>
          </span>&nbsp;<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
            I think &#8220;</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">existing
            network deployments which are not DMM enablded</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">&#8221;
            are included in &#8220;existing network deployments. <br>
          </span>&nbsp;<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
            The end result is the compatibility with existing network
            deployment and end hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs
            to do to ensure such compatibility. Do you agree?</span>
          <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
          </span>&nbsp;<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
            H Anthony Chan</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
          </span>&nbsp;<b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
              From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a> [</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
            <b><br>
              Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<b><br>
              To:</b> h chan<b><br>
              Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>; jouni
            korhonen; Peter McCann<b><br>
              Subject:</b> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"
            lang="ZH-CN">&#31572;&#22797;</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
            Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</span>
          <span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
          </span>&nbsp;<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            Hi Anthony:</span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
          </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between
            trusted </span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">administrative
            domains</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            is good to me, and the interworking with existing network
            deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very
            important. I believe we have already have consistency about
            this. &nbsp;So, how about mergering this two parts as following ?</span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            <br>
            <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            <br>
            The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment
            with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be
            compatible with other mobility protocols, and be
            interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers
            that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so that the
            existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.
            Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being
            deployed between trusted administrative domains and SHOULD
            allow inter-working with the security measures deployed
            between these domains. <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            <br>
            <br>
            Hope this make sense. <br>
            <br>
            BR <br>
            Luowen </span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%" border="0"
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          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:25.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                valign="top" width="25%">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h
                      chan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a></span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"><br>
                    <span lang="ZH-CN">&#21457;&#20214;&#20154;</span></span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">:
                    &nbsp;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></span><span
                    style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2012/06/06
                    01:26</span><span
                    style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              </td>
              <td style="width:74.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                valign="top" width="74%">
                <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%"
                  border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"
                  width="100%">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="5%">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="94%">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a>
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
                            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a>, jouni
                            korhonen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">&lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</a></span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#25220;&#36865;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top"><br>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
                          align="right"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"
                            lang="ZH-CN">&#20027;&#39064;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"
                        valign="top">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re:
                            [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p><br>
                  <span
                    style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
                  </span>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
                <p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%"
                  border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"
                  width="100%">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="50%">
                        <br>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
                        .75pt" valign="top" width="50%">
                        <br>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            Replacing REQ-4 with the following:<br>
            <br>
            REQ-4: compatibility<br>
            The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between
            trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow
            inter-working with the security measures deployed between
            these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts
            also SHOULD NOT break.<br>
            <br>
            H Anthony Chan<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            -----Original Message-----<br>
            From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
            On Behalf Of h chan<br>
            Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM<br>
            To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen<br>
            Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
            Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
            <br>
            An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:<br>
            <br>
            REQ-4: compatibility <br>
            The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment
            with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be
            compatible with other mobility protocols, and be
            interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers
            that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so that the
            existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.<br>
            REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
            Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to
            break existing network deployments and end hosts.
            <br>
            OTHER related problem<br>
            O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and
            extensions of MIP<br>
            Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions
            of MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the
            complicity, existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
            <br>
            H Anthony Chan<br>
            <br>
            -----Original Message-----<br>
            From: Peter McCann <br>
            Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM<br>
            To: jouni korhonen; h chan<br>
            Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
            Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
            <br>
            Hi, Jouni,<br>
            <br>
            jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
            &gt; <br>
            &gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:<br>
            &gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility<br>
            &gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network
            deployment with<br>
            &gt;&gt; IPv6<br>
            &gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be
            compatible with other<br>
            &gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the
            network or the<br>
            &gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM
            enabling protocol so<br>
            &gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are
            unaffected.<br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
            &gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is
            to be able to work<br>
            &gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical
            networks and flattened<br>
            &gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol
            possesses enough<br>
            &gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so
            that the existing<br>
            &gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not
            break.<br>
            &gt; <br>
            &gt; Isn't the motivation just "SHALL not break existing
            network<br>
            &gt; deployments and end hosts" ?<br>
            &gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of
            the solutions<br>
            &gt; developed in DMM.<br>
            <br>
            I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a
            strategy for<br>
            backwards compatibility.<br>
            <br>
            -Pete<br>
            <br>
            &gt; - JOuni<br>
            &gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment
            with too many<br>
            &gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is
            complicated with many<br>
            &gt;&gt; variants and extensions of<br>
            &gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to
            the complicity,<br>
            &gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions,
            inputs and discussions<br>
            &gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and
            comments are most<br>
            &gt;&gt; welcome.)<br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan<br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; <br>
            &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
            &gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
            &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
            &gt;&gt; </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
            &gt; <br>
            &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
            &gt; dmm mailing list<br>
            &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
            &gt; </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            dmm mailing list<br>
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          </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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              style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span
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            _______________________________________________<br>
            dmm mailing list<br>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
          </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><tt><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></tt><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
            <tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
            <tt><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><br>
          </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt></a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
        <pre>--------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;attachment&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;herewith)&nbsp;is&nbsp;privileged&nbsp;and&nbsp;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;is&nbsp;intended&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;exclusive&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;addressee(s).&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;an&nbsp;intended&nbsp;recipient,&nbsp;any&nbsp;disclosure,&nbsp;reproduction,&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;or&nbsp;other&nbsp;dissemination&nbsp;or&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;is&nbsp;strictly&nbsp;prohibited.&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;received&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;in&nbsp;error,&nbsp;please&nbsp;delete&nbsp;it&nbsp;and&nbsp;notify&nbsp;us&nbsp;immediately.<o:p></o:p></pre>
        <pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.</pre>
  </body>
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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Anthony,

Thanks for the update. While the requirements start shaping up
nicely I have few documentation related issues. First, Section 1
does not need to repeat DMM WG charter and milestones. Second,=20
Section 4 does not belong to this requirement document. The draft
already has rather lengthy intro, which is more than enough as a
background information.

- Jouni

On Jun 8, 2012, at 8:59 AM, h chan wrote:

> A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so far =
together with the problem statements has been uploaded:
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt
>=20
> The following is an explanation of how it is structured.=20
>=20
> Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on problem =
statement listed 5 of them as relevant problems.=20
>=20
> In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address all the =
relevant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing centralized =
deployments. So I think they are the key requirements. They both use =
"SHALL"
>=20
> The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements with =
existing centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the "SHALL" very =
sparingly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing mobility =
protocols a mobility management solution lest they meet all the "SHALL" =
requirements.=20
>=20
> H Anthony Chan
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Charles E. Perkins
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM
> To: Peter McCann
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>=20
>=20
> Hello Pete,
>=20
> Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.
>=20
> I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM
> requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security
> mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.
>=20
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>=20
>=20
> On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
>> I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your
>> comment, Charles.  For instance, he removed the text that said,
>> "should not be considered the default."  Are you ok with his new
>> proposed text?  If not, can you propose text that you would like?
>>=20
>> -Pete
>>=20
>> Charles E. Perkins wrote:
>>> Hello folks,
>>>=20
>>> It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for a=20=

>>> new draft.
>>> However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps=20=

>>> worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).
>>>=20
>>> Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>> Charlie P.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
>>>=20
>>> 	Hi Jouni,
>>>=20
>>> 	What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and =
never=20
>>> ending discussions.
>>>=20
>>> 	Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his =
hard=20
>>> work and move on?
>>>=20
>>> 	Regards,
>>>=20
>>> 	Behcet
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 	On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan =
<h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional =
requirements,=20
>>> but rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. =
Does=20
>>> the rewrite sound better now:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>=20
>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire=20=

>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address.
>>> Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix=20=

>>> during handover may be declined.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		From: luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
>>> 		Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
>>> 		To: h chan
>>> 		Cc: dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; =
Peter McCann
>>> 		Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [DMM] draft requirement =
REQ-2:
>>> Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		Hi Anthony:
>>>=20
>>> 		The last part of the sentence (i.e. but the need to =
maintain a=20
>>> stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as
>>> default.) seems a littel strange to me.  REQ-2 just describes under=20=

>>> what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the mobile=20=

>>> hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to=20=

>>> the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a =
change=20
>>> of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the transparency=20=

>>> is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the =
sentence=A3=BF
>>>=20
>>> 		Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, =
it will=20
>>> obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP=20=

>>> address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile=20=

>>> does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the =
sentence=20
>>> will just exclude this scenario.
>>>=20
>>> 		If I make any mistake, please correct me.
>>>=20
>>> 		Thanks
>>> 		Luowen
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>>> =B7=A2 =BC=FE=C8=CB:  dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>>>=20
>>> 2012/06/06 01:12
>>>=20
>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
>>>=20
>>> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann =
<Peter.McCann@huawei.com>,=20
>>> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
>>>=20
>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2
>>>=20
>>> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		Revise as follows:
>>>=20
>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire=20=

>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,=20=

>>> but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD =
NOT=20
>>> be taken as default.
>>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient =
use of=20
>>> network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a=20
>>> stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
>>>=20
>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: =
dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>>> [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h chan 		Sent: =
Wednesday, May
>>> 23, 2012 7:51 PM 		To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen 		=
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>> 		Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency =
to Upper=20
>>> Layers
>>>=20
>>> 		An attempt to clean up the text so far:
>>>=20
>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire=20=

>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,=20=

>>> but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.
>>>=20
>>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient =
use of=20
>>> network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support =
is=20
>>> implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes=20=

>>> that do not need it.
>>>=20
>>> 		RELEVANT problem: 		PS5: Wasting resources =
to support mobile nodes not
>>> needing mobility support 		IP mobility support is not =
always required.
>>> For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address =
during=20
>>> handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire=20
>>> application session runs while the terminal does not change the =
point of attachment.
>>> In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, network=20=

>>> resources are wasted when including additional info to the mobility=20=

>>> context to support the change the point of attachment. Network=20
>>> resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many =
MNs that do not
>>> require IP mobility support. 		OTHER related problem 		=
O-PS1: Mobility
>>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		While =
mobility
>>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts may then=20=

>>> communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer =
needed.
>>> Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will =
waste
>>> network resources. 		O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity 		=
Centralized
>>> deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be less=20=

>>> capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of=20
>>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes =
by=20
>>> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>>>=20
>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>=20
>>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: Peter =
McCann 		Sent: Friday, May
>>> 18, 2012 9:35 AM 		To: jouni korhonen; h chan 		=
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>> 		Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency =
to Upper=20
>>> Layers
>>>=20
>>> 		Hi, Jouni,
>>>=20
>>> 		jouni korhonen wrote: 		> 		> Few =
comments/questions here: 		> 		> On
>>> May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: 		> 		=
>> REQ-2: Transparency to
>>> Upper Layers 		>> The DMM solutions SHALL enable =
transparency above the
>>> IP layer. Such 		>> transparency is needed for the =
application flows
>>> that cannot cope with 		>> a change of IP address and =
when mobile hosts
>>> or entire mobile networks 		>> change their point of =
attachment to the
>>> Internet, but SHOULD NOT be 		>> taken as the default =
behavior. 		> 		>
>>> "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" =
seem
>>> 		> to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this =
mean something
>>> 		> like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or =
can one leave
>>> 		> transparency completely away if the applications/hosts =
just don't
>>> care 		> whether IP changes or not?
>>>=20
>>> 		I think the latter.  If the applications don't care =
about
>>> transparency, 		then we don't need to pay for it with =
state and
>>> signaling in the network.
>>>=20
>>> 		However, we know that some applications do care, so it =
SHALL be
>>> possible 		to provide it.
>>>=20
>>> 		>> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2) 		>> The =
goal of this requirement is
>>> to 		>> enable more efficient use of network resources and =
more
>>> efficient 		>> routing by not invoking mobility support when =
there is no
>>> such need. 		> 		> Does this still mean the =
mobility support must be
>>> implement even if it 		> is not used?
>>>=20
>>> 		We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through =
some amount of
>>> 		mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for =
this case as
>>> it 		might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very =
long period
>>> of 		time.
>>>=20
>>> 		>> RELEVANT problem: 		>> PS5: Wasting =
resources to support mobile
>>> nodes not needing mobility 		>> support IP mobility support =
is not
>>> always required. For example, 		>> some 		=
>> applications do not need a
>>> stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP 		>> session =
continuity.
>>> Sometimes, the entire application session runs 		>> while =
the terminal
>>> does not change the point of attachment. In these 		>> =
situations that
>>> do not require IP mobility support, network resources 		=
>> are wasted
>>> when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also 		=
>> wasted
>>> when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require 		=
>> IP
>>> mobility support. 		>> 		>> OTHER related problem =
		>> O-PS1: Mobility
>>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		>> While =
mobility
>>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the 		=
>> hosts may
>>> then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no 		=
>> longer
>>> needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default 		=
>> behavior
>>> will waste network resources. 		>> O-PS2: Lack of =
user-centricity 		>>
>>> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management
>>> 		>> may be less capable to support user-centricity. =
Example in the lack
>>> of 		>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all =
mobile
>>> nodes by 		>> default regardless of whether the user needs =
it or not.
>>> 		> 		> I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the =
motivation makes sense though
>>> but 		> the title "lack of user-centricity" is =
somewhat confusing.. what
>>> does 		> forced/always-on mobility support has to do =
with user
>>> centricity?
>>>=20
>>> 		I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the =
mobility
>>> management 		to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't mind =
seeing this
>>> explanatory text 		re-worded.
>>>=20
>>> 		-Pete
>>>=20
>>> 		> 		> - Jouni 		> 		=
> 		>> 		>> (The above has been drafted with
>>> contributions, inputs and discussions 		>> from various =
people.
>>> Additional contributions and comments are most 		>> =
welcome.) 		>> 		>>
>>> H Anthony Chan 		>> 		>> 		>>
>>> _______________________________________________ 		>> dmm =
mailing list
>>> 		>> dmm@ietf.org 		>> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm 		> 		=
>
>>> _______________________________________________ 		> dmm =
mailing list 		>
>>> dmm@ietf.org 		> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		_______________________________________________ 		=
dmm mailing list
>>> 		dmm@ietf.org 		=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>> 		_______________________________________________ 		=
dmm mailing list
>>> 		dmm@ietf.org 		=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 		_______________________________________________
>>> 		dmm mailing list
>>> 		dmm@ietf.org
>>> 		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 	_______________________________________________
>>> 	dmm mailing list
>>> 	dmm@ietf.org
>>> 	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm


From jouni.nospam@gmail.com  Mon Jun 11 07:04:19 2012
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From: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
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Subject: [DMM] Vancouver DMM WG meeting approaching..
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Folks,

We have asked for a 2.5h meeting slot for Vancouver IETF#84 meeting. There is
no concrete agenda plan yet but obviously we will spend time going through
the requirements and gaps to existing stuff out there (the 'Solution
Requirements' & 'Practices and Gap Analysis' are due Aug 2012). There is not
going to be a marathon of draft presentations this time.. maybe few selected
ones.

Jouni & Julien

From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Mon Jun 11 09:43:28 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "tso@zteusa.com" <tso@zteusa.com>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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References: <CAC8QAcemFZdr=y3OdH2VM_AGH80yOUKHxsiThW6J=7_hxPj3ag@mail.gmail.com> <4FD0FDD0.90804@computer.org> <5963DDF1F751474D8DEEFDCDBEE43AE716E06FF3@dfweml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <4FD12281.8000400@computer.org> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C270B9D55@SZXEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C270B9DEC@SZXEML505-MBX.china.huawei.com> <OFE10C1CC7.8B794FBE-ON88257A17.0054F4AD-88257A17.00558714@zte.com.cn>
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dear Tricci,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In the current text, only=
 the first 2 sentences are requirements. The remaining sentences are not ad=
ditional requirements but are explanations and examples
 of the requirements. The explanatory sentences says: depending on the envi=
ronment. It is anticipating some are needed and some are not needed dependi=
ng on the specific network environment they are deployed. In this sense, is=
 it sufficient to use should?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> tso@zteu=
sa.com [mailto:tso@zteusa.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 11:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Charles E. Perkins; dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; Behcet Sarikaya<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Dear Anthony,
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thank =
you for clarifying your considerations on how to determine &quot;shall&quot=
; vs. &quot;should&quot;. &nbsp;</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">May be=
 it is just my lack of understanding for the motivation for defining the re=
quirement. :(</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Should=
 the requirements be defined based on the realistic use cases and not based=
 on individual proposals? &nbsp;I sincerely hope that all of our proposals =
are targeting to solve the real problem in today network deployment
 scenarios. &nbsp;</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">What d=
o you think? &nbsp;Thanks.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Tricci=
 </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">Sent by: dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">06/08/2012 08:08 AM</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;Charles E. Perkins&quot; &lt;charlie=
p@computer.org&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Behcet Sarikaya &lt;sarikaya2012@gmail.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Let me explain why I picked the use of=
 SHALL and SHOULD in this draft:
</span></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
<tt>REQ-1 and REQ-2 are requirements of distributed mobility management. Th=
ey address relevant problems in centralized deployment, which are the reaso=
ns for the dmm work. If the solutions does not meet these requirements, the=
y probably may not qualify as a
 dmm solution. </tt><br>
<br>
<tt>The rest of the requirements: REQ-3, REQ-4, REQ-5, REQ-6 are requiremen=
ts not limited to dmm but are needed in any mobility management. Yet I do n=
ot know whether the dmm proposals submitted by various people so far can me=
et all these requirements. I do
 not know even if every existing centralized mobility management protocols =
meet all these requirements. If we insist on using SHALL, we will not be ab=
le to name any of them as a mobility management solution if that solution f=
ails any one of them.
</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>So I guess the use of these later requirements is not to disqualify the=
se solutions, but to enable the user to tell whether which solution meets o=
r does not meet each requirement. Therefore I think that the use of SHOULD =
is sufficient.
</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [</tt></span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@i=
etf.org"><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</=
span></tt></a><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of h chan</s=
pan></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:00 AM</tt><br>
<tt>To: Charles E. Perkins; Peter McCann</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so far togeth=
er with the problem statements has been uploaded:</tt><br>
<br>
</span><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt=
"><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dm=
m-requirements-01.txt</span></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
<tt>The following is an explanation of how it is structured. </tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on problem sta=
tement listed 5 of them as relevant problems.
</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address all the =
relevant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing centralized deplo=
yments. So I think they are the key requirements. They both use &quot;SHALL=
&quot;</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements with exi=
sting centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the &quot;SHALL&quot; ve=
ry sparingly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing mobility p=
rotocols a mobility management solution lest
 they meet all the &quot;SHALL&quot; requirements. </tt><br>
<br>
<tt>H Anthony Chan</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [</tt></span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@i=
etf.org"><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</=
span></tt></a><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of Charles E=
. Perkins</span></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM</tt><br>
<tt>To: Peter McCann</tt><br>
<tt>Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Hello Pete,</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM</tt><br>
<tt>requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security</tt><br>
<tt>mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Regards,</tt><br>
<tt>Charlie P.</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your<=
/tt><br>
<tt>&gt; comment, Charles. &nbsp;For instance, he removed the text that sai=
d,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; &quot;should not be considered the default.&quot; &nbsp;Are you ok=
 with his new</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; proposed text? &nbsp;If not, can you propose text that you would l=
ike?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; -Pete</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; Charles E. Perkins wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Hello folks,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point=
 for a </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; new draft.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; However, there are still some points of discussion that are pe=
rhaps </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this w=
eek).</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Regards,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Charlie P.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
Hi Jouni,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; ending discussions.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; work and move on?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
Regards,</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
Behcet</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</=
tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, the second an=
d third sentences are not additional requirements,
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; but rather explanations of the requirement in the first senten=
ce. Does </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; the rewrite sound better now:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparenc=
y to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions =
SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Intern=
et, for </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP add=
ress.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or =
prefix </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; during handover may be declined.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan</tt=
><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: luo.wen@zte.=
com.cn [</tt></span><a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><tt><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span></tt></a><tt><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt">]</span></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, J=
une 06, 2012 12:56 AM</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: h chan</tt><br=
>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: dmm@ietf.org; =
dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: <span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:</tt><br=
>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Transparency to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi Anthony:</tt><b=
r>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The last part of t=
he sentence (i.e. but the need to maintain a
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as</tt><b=
r>
<tt>&gt;&gt; default.) seems a littel strange to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just descr=
ibes under </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the m=
obile </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachme=
nt to </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with =
a change </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the transp=
arency </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the sen=
tence<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A3=BF</span></tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Besides, when mobi=
le node attaches to its home network, it will
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. =
The IP </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the =
mobile </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the =
sentence </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; will just exclude this scenario.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If I make any mist=
ake, please correct me.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Luowen</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2 =BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: &nbsp;dmm-bou=
nces@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; 2012/06/06 01:12</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;, Peter McCann &l=
t;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; jouni korhonen &lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span></tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layer=
s</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Revise as follows:=
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparenc=
y to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions =
SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Intern=
et, for </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP add=
ress, </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SH=
OULD NOT </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; be taken as default.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation=
 for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this r=
equirement is to enable more efficient use of
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing by not maintainin=
g a </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan</tt=
><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Mess=
age----- &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: dmm-bounces@ietf=
.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; [</tt></span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></tt></a><tt>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, May</span></tt><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; 23, 2012 7:51 PM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; T=
o: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 Cc: dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [DMM]=
 draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; An attempt to clea=
n up the text so far:</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparenc=
y to Upper Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions =
SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Intern=
et, for </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP add=
ress, </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation=
 for REQ-2)</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this r=
equirement is to enable more efficient use of
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing when mobility sup=
port is </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and n=
odes </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; that do not need it.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RELEVANT problem: =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; PS5: Wasting resources to suppo=
rt mobile nodes not</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; needing mobility support &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; IP mobility support is not always required.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address=
 during </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire </=
tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; application session runs while the terminal does not change th=
e point of attachment.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, n=
etwork </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; resources are wasted when including additional info to the mob=
ility </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; context to support the change the point of attachment. Network=
 </tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for m=
any MNs that do not</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; require IP mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; OTHER related problem &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; O-PS1: Mobility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; While mobility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts ma=
y then </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer=
 needed.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior wi=
ll waste</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 Centralized</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; deployment compared with distributed mobility management may b=
e less </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of </t=
t><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile n=
odes by </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.</tt><b=
r>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan</tt=
><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Mess=
age----- &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Peter McCann &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Friday, May</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; 18, 2012 9:35 AM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; T=
o: jouni korhonen; h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: d=
mm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: RE: [DMM]=
 draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Layers</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi, Jouni,</tt><br=
>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; jouni korhonen wro=
te: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Few comments/questions here: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
gt; On</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&=
gt; REQ-2: Transparency to</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Upper Layers &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&=
gt; The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; IP layer. Such &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt=
;&gt; transparency is needed for the application flows</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; that cannot cope with &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile hosts</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; or entire mobile networks &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Internet, but SHOULD NOT be &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;</t=
t><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &quot;SHALL enable&quot; but &quot;SHOULD NOT be taken as the =
default behavior&quot; seem</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; to conflict. =
So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; like &quot;MU=
ST implement, SHOULD use&quot; type of solution? Or can one leave</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; transparency =
completely away if the applications/hosts just don't</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; care &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; whether =
IP changes or not?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think the latter=
. &nbsp;If the applications don't care about</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; transparency, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; then=
 we don't need to pay for it with state and</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; signaling in the network.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However, we know t=
hat some applications do care, so it SHALL be</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; possible &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to provid=
e it.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; REQ-2M (M=
otivation for REQ-2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; T=
he goal of this requirement is</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; to &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; enable=
 more efficient use of network resources and more</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; efficient &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;=
 routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; such need. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Does this still mean the mob=
ility support must be</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; implement even if it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &gt; is not used?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We need some strat=
egy for keeping an IP address through some amount of</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mobility. &nbsp;Ho=
wever, we needn't optimize the network for this case as</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might be rather=
 uncommon to keep an address for a very long period</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; time.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RELEVANT =
problem: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting =
resources to support mobile</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; nodes not needing mobility &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; always required. For example, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; some &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&=
gt; applications do not need a</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; session continuity.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Sometimes, the entire application session runs &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; while the terminal</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; does not change the point of attachment. In these &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; situations that</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; do not require IP mobility support, network resources &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; are wasted</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wasted</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not requir=
e &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IP</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; OTHER related=
 problem &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobili=
ty</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; While mobility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hosts may</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; longer</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; behavior</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; will waste network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility mana=
gement</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; may be le=
ss capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; user-c=
entricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; nodes by &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the moti=
vation makes sense though</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; but &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; the title=
 &quot;lack of user-centricity&quot; is somewhat confusing.. what</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; does &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; forced/a=
lways-on mobility support has to do with user</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; centricity?</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think Anthony ju=
st meant that we should tailor the mobility</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; management &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to the =
needs of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn't mind seeing this</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; explanatory text &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; r=
e-worded.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Pete</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; - Jouni &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted
 with</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; contributions, inputs and discussions &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; from various people.</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; Additional contributions and comments are most &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; welcome.) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&=
gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt=
;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.=
org &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
</tt></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span=
></tt></a><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;</span></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; dmm mailing list &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; =
</tt></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span=
></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; __________________=
_____________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d=
mm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</tt></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span=
></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; __________________=
_____________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; d=
mm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</tt></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span=
></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; __________________=
_____________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm mailing list</=
tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org</tt><=
br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </tt></span><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt></a><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
</tt></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span=
></tt></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;</tt><br>
<tt>&gt;</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-- </tt><br>
<tt>Regards,</tt><br>
<tt>Charlie P.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>dmm mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>dmm@ietf.org</tt><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;informat=
ion&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;atta=
chment&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;herewith)&nbsp;is&nbsp;privileged&nbsp;and&nbs=
p;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;is&nbsp;intended&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;exclus=
ive&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;addressee(s).&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbs=
p;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;an&nbsp;intended&nbsp;recipient,&nbsp;any&nbsp;disclosu=
re,&nbsp;reproduction,&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;or&nbsp;other&nbsp;disseminat=
ion&nbsp;or&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;=
is&nbsp;strictly&nbsp;prohibited.&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;rec=
eived&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;in&nbsp;error,&nbsp;please&nbsp;delete&nbsp;=
it&nbsp;and&nbsp;notify&nbsp;us&nbsp;immediately.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
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From charliep@computer.org  Mon Jun 11 13:29:04 2012
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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Hello folks,

I also prefer to mandate backwards compatibility, although I fear there
is some
ambiguity about exactly what it means.

I'd also greatly prefer using "MUST" instead of "SHALL" to specify mandated
behavior.

Regards,
Charlie P.

On 6/11/2012 1:07 PM, tso@zteusa.com wrote:
> Dear Anthony,
>
> Sincerely thank you for your kind feedback. I would be ok with the
> rest of the text as you suggested. However, for the 2nd secntence as
> you have in current text for REQ4...
> >
> > The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administrative
> > domains when allowed by the security measures deployed between these
> > domains. Furthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards
> > compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts. For
> > example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the
> > dmm solutions may need to be compatible with other existing mobility
> > protocols that are deployed in that environment or may need to be
> > interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not
> > support the dmm enabling protocol.
>
> Should we replace the "SHOULD" to "SHALL"? Backward compatibility
> should not be optional, right?
>
> Thanks in advance for your kind consideration.
> Tricci
>
>
>
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
>
> 06/11/2012 09:41 AM
>
> 	
> To
> 	"tso@zteusa.com" <tso@zteusa.com>
> cc
> 	"Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>, "dmm@ietf.org"
> <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, Behcet
> Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
> Subject
> 	RE: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tricci,
>
> In the current text, only the first 2 sentences are requirements. The
> remaining sentences are not additional requirements but are
> explanations and examples of the requirements. The explanatory
> sentences says: depending on the environment. It is anticipating some
> are needed and some are not needed depending on the specific network
> environment they are deployed. In this sense, is it sufficient to use
> should?
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> *From:* tso@zteusa.com [mailto:tso@zteusa.com] *
> Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2012 11:34 AM*
> To:* h chan*
> Cc:* Charles E. Perkins; dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; Behcet Sarikaya*
> Subject:* Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>
> Dear Anthony,
>
> Thank you for clarifying your considerations on how to determine
> "shall" vs. "should".
>
> May be it is just my lack of understanding for the motivation for
> defining the requirement. :(
>
> Should the requirements be defined based on the realistic use cases
> and not based on individual proposals? I sincerely hope that all of
> our proposals are targeting to solve the real problem in today network
> deployment scenarios.
>
> What do you think? Thanks.
> Tricci
>
>
> *h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>*
> Sent by: dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>
> 06/08/2012 08:08 AM
>
> 	
> To
> 	"Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>, Peter McCann
> <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>
> cc
> 	"dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
> Subject
> 	Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Let me explain why I picked the use of SHALL and SHOULD in this draft:
>
> REQ-1 and REQ-2 are requirements of distributed mobility management.
> They address relevant problems in centralized deployment, which are
> the reasons for the dmm work. If the solutions does not meet these
> requirements, they probably may not qualify as a dmm solution.
>
> The rest of the requirements: REQ-3, REQ-4, REQ-5, REQ-6 are
> requirements not limited to dmm but are needed in any mobility
> management. Yet I do not know whether the dmm proposals submitted by
> various people so far can meet all these requirements. I do not know
> even if every existing centralized mobility management protocols meet
> all these requirements. If we insist on using SHALL, we will not be
> able to name any of them as a mobility management solution if that
> solution fails any one of them.
>
> So I guess the use of these later requirements is not to disqualify
> these solutions, but to enable the user to tell whether which solution
> meets or does not meet each requirement. Therefore I think that the
> use of SHOULD is sufficient.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [_mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf
> Of h chan
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:00 AM
> To: Charles E. Perkins; Peter McCann
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>
> A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so far
> together with the problem statements has been uploaded:
> _
> __http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt_
>
> The following is an explanation of how it is structured.
>
> Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on problem
> statement listed 5 of them as relevant problems.
>
> In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address all the
> relevant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing centralized
> deployments. So I think they are the key requirements. They both use
> "SHALL"
>
> The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements with
> existing centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the "SHALL" very
> sparingly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing mobility
> protocols a mobility management solution lest they meet all the
> "SHALL" requirements.
>
> H Anthony Chan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [_mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf
> Of Charles E. Perkins
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM
> To: Peter McCann
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>
>
> Hello Pete,
>
> Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.
>
> I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM
> requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security
> mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.
>
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>
>
> On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
> > I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your
> > comment, Charles. For instance, he removed the text that said,
> > "should not be considered the default." Are you ok with his new
> > proposed text? If not, can you propose text that you would like?
> >
> > -Pete
> >
> > Charles E. Perkins wrote:
> >> Hello folks,
> >>
> >> It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for a
> >> new draft.
> >> However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps
> >> worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).
> >>
> >> Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Charlie P.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Jouni,
> >>
> >> What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never
> >> ending discussions.
> >>
> >> Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard
> >> work and move on?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Behcet
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional requirements,
> >> but rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. Does
> >> the rewrite sound better now:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> >>
> >> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> >> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire
> >> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for
> >> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address.
> >> Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix
> >> during handover may be declined.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: luo.wen@zte.com.cn [_mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn_]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
> >> To: h chan
> >> Cc: dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann
> >> Subject: ´ð¸´: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:
> >> Transparency to Upper Layers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Anthony:
> >>
> >> The last part of the sentence (i.e. but the need to maintain a
> >> stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as
> >> default.) seems a littel strange to me. REQ-2 just describes under
> >> what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the mobile
> >> hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to
> >> the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a change
> >> of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the transparency
> >> is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the sentence£¿
> >>
> >> Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, it will
> >> obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The IP
> >> address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobile
> >> does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the sentence
> >> will just exclude this scenario.
> >>
> >> If I make any mistake, please correct me.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Luowen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
> >> ·¢ ¼þÈË: dmm-bounces@ietf.org
> >>
> >> 2012/06/06 01:12
> >>
> >> ÊÕ¼þÈË
> >>
> >> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>,
> >> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> ³­ËÍ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ö÷Ìâ
> >>
> >> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Revise as follows:
> >>
> >> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> >> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> >> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire
> >> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for
> >> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,
> >> but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT
> >> be taken as default.
> >> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> >> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of
> >> network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a
> >> stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org
> >> [_mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf Of h chan Sent:
> Wednesday, May
> >> 23, 2012 7:51 PM To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
> >> Layers
> >>
> >> An attempt to clean up the text so far:
> >>
> >> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> >> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when
> >> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire
> >> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for
> >> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,
> >> but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.
> >>
> >> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> >> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of
> >> network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support is
> >> implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes
> >> that do not need it.
> >>
> >> RELEVANT problem: PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not
> >> needing mobility support IP mobility support is not always required.
> >> For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address during
> >> handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire
> >> application session runs while the terminal does not change the
> point of attachment.
> >> In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, network
> >> resources are wasted when including additional info to the mobility
> >> context to support the change the point of attachment. Network
> >> resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many
> MNs that do not
> >> require IP mobility support. OTHER related problem O-PS1: Mobility
> >> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication While mobility
> >> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts may then
> >> communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer needed.
> >> Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will waste
> >> network resources. O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity Centralized
> >> deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be less
> >> capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of
> >> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes by
> >> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Peter McCann Sent: Friday, May
> >> 18, 2012 9:35 AM To: jouni korhonen; h chan Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
> >> Layers
> >>
> >> Hi, Jouni,
> >>
> >> jouni korhonen wrote: > > Few comments/questions here: > > On
> >> May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: > >> REQ-2: Transparency to
> >> Upper Layers >> The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the
> >> IP layer. Such >> transparency is needed for the application flows
> >> that cannot cope with >> a change of IP address and when mobile hosts
> >> or entire mobile networks >> change their point of attachment to the
> >> Internet, but SHOULD NOT be >> taken as the default behavior. > >
> >> "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" seem
> >> > to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something
> >> > like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave
> >> > transparency completely away if the applications/hosts just don't
> >> care > whether IP changes or not?
> >>
> >> I think the latter. If the applications don't care about
> >> transparency, then we don't need to pay for it with state and
> >> signaling in the network.
> >>
> >> However, we know that some applications do care, so it SHALL be
> >> possible to provide it.
> >>
> >> >> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2) >> The goal of this requirement is
> >> to >> enable more efficient use of network resources and more
> >> efficient >> routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no
> >> such need. > > Does this still mean the mobility support must be
> >> implement even if it > is not used?
> >>
> >> We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through some amount of
> >> mobility. However, we needn't optimize the network for this case as
> >> it might be rather uncommon to keep an address for a very long period
> >> of time.
> >>
> >> >> RELEVANT problem: >> PS5: Wasting resources to support mobile
> >> nodes not needing mobility >> support IP mobility support is not
> >> always required. For example, >> some >> applications do not need a
> >> stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP >> session continuity.
> >> Sometimes, the entire application session runs >> while the terminal
> >> does not change the point of attachment. In these >> situations that
> >> do not require IP mobility support, network resources >> are wasted
> >> when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also >> wasted
> >> when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require >> IP
> >> mobility support. >> >> OTHER related problem >> O-PS1: Mobility
> >> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication >> While mobility
> >> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the >> hosts may
> >> then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no >> longer
> >> needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default >> behavior
> >> will waste network resources. >> O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity >>
> >> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility management
> >> >> may be less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack
> >> of >> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile
> >> nodes by >> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
> >> > > I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation makes sense though
> >> but > the title "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what
> >> does > forced/always-on mobility support has to do with user
> >> centricity?
> >>
> >> I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the mobility
> >> management to the needs of the user. I wouldn't mind seeing this
> >> explanatory text re-worded.
> >>
> >> -Pete
> >>
> >> > > - Jouni > > >> >> (The above has been drafted with
> >> contributions, inputs and discussions >> from various people.
> >> Additional contributions and comments are most >> welcome.) >> >>
> >> H Anthony Chan >> >> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ >> dmm mailing list
> >> >> dmm@ietf.org >> _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_> >
> >> _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list >
> >> dmm@ietf.org > _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> >> _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org
> >> _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dmm mailing list
> >> dmm@ietf.org
> >> _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> -- 
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org_
> __https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
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> __https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org_
> __https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm_
>
>
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-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.


--------------030106090604030900090401
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    <br>
    Hello folks,<br>
    <br>
    I also prefer to mandate backwards compatibility, although I fear
    there is some<br>
    ambiguity about exactly what it means.<br>
    <br>
    I'd also greatly prefer using "MUST" instead of "SHALL" to specify
    mandated<br>
    behavior.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Charlie P.<br>
    <br>
    On 6/11/2012 1:07 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">tso@zteusa.com</a> wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:OF90241CAF.4A3808CC-ON88257A1A.0069E085-88257A1A.006E84AB@zte.com.cn"
      type="cite"><font color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="3">Dear
        Anthony, </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="3">Sincerely thank you
        for your
        kind feedback. &nbsp;I would be ok with the rest of the text as you
        suggested.
        &nbsp;However, for the 2nd secntence as you have in current text for
        REQ4...</font>
      <br>
      <tt><font size="3">&gt; <br>
          &gt; The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted
          administrative
          <br>
          &gt; domains when allowed by the security measures deployed
          between these
          <br>
          &gt; domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve
          backwards
          <br>
          &gt; compatibility with existing network deployment and end
          hosts. &nbsp;For
          <br>
          &gt; example, depending on the environment in which dmm is
          deployed, the
          <br>
          &gt; dmm solutions may need to be compatible with other
          existing mobility
          <br>
          &gt; protocols that are deployed in that environment or may
          need to be
          <br>
          &gt; interoperable with the network or the mobile
          hosts/routers that do
          not <br>
          &gt; support the dmm enabling protocol.</font></tt>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="3">Should we replace
        the "SHOULD"
        to "SHALL"? &nbsp; Backward compatibility should not be optional,
        right? </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="3">Thanks in advance
        for your
        kind consideration. &nbsp;</font>
      <br>
      <font color="blue" face="sans-serif" size="3">Tricci </font>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <table width="100%">
        <tbody>
          <tr valign="top">
            <td width="35%"><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><b>h chan
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a></b>
              </font>
              <p><font face="sans-serif" size="1">06/11/2012 09:41 AM</font>
              </p>
            </td>
            <td width="64%">
              <table width="100%">
                <tbody>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font face="sans-serif"
                          size="1">To</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">"tso@zteusa.com"</a>
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">&lt;tso@zteusa.com&gt;</a></font>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font face="sans-serif"
                          size="1">cc</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"Charles E.
                        Perkins" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:charliep@computer.org">&lt;charliep@computer.org&gt;</a>,
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Peter
                        McCann <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a>,
                        Behcet Sarikaya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com">&lt;sarikaya2012@gmail.com&gt;</a></font>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <div align="right"><font face="sans-serif"
                          size="1">Subject</font></div>
                    </td>
                    <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">RE: [DMM] draft
                        requirement discussions</font></td>
                  </tr>
                </tbody>
              </table>
              <br>
              <table>
                <tbody>
                  <tr valign="top">
                    <td>
                      <br>
                    </td>
                    <td><br>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                </tbody>
              </table>
              <br>
            </td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="3">Dear Tricci,</font>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="3">&nbsp;</font>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="3">In the current text,
        only
        the first 2 sentences are requirements. The remaining sentences
        are not
        additional requirements but are explanations and examples of the
        requirements.
        The explanatory sentences says: depending on the environment. It
        is anticipating
        some are needed and some are not needed depending on the
        specific network
        environment they are deployed. In this sense, is it sufficient
        to use should?
      </font>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="3">&nbsp;</font>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="3">H Anthony Chan</font>
      <br>
      <font color="#004080" face="Calibri" size="2">&nbsp;</font>
      <br>
      <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com">tso@zteusa.com</a> [</font><a
        moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tso@zteusa.com"><font
          face="Tahoma" size="2">mailto:tso@zteusa.com</font></a><font
        face="Tahoma" size="2">]
        <b><br>
          Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 11:34 AM<b><br>
          To:</b> h chan<b><br>
          Cc:</b> Charles E. Perkins; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; Peter McCann; Behcet
        Sarikaya<b><br>
          Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</font>
      <br>
      <font face="SimSun" size="3">&nbsp;</font>
      <br>
      <font face="Arial" size="3">Dear Anthony, </font><font
        face="SimSun" size="3"><br>
      </font><font face="Arial" size="3"><br>
        Thank you for clarifying your considerations on how to determine
        "shall"
        vs. "should". &nbsp;</font><font face="SimSun" size="3"> <br>
      </font><font face="Arial" size="3"><br>
        May be it is just my lack of understanding for the motivation
        for defining
        the requirement. :(</font><font face="SimSun" size="3"> <br>
      </font><font face="Arial" size="3"><br>
        Should the requirements be defined based on the realistic use
        cases and
        not based on individual proposals? &nbsp;I sincerely hope that all of
        our
        proposals are targeting to solve the real problem in today
        network deployment
        scenarios. &nbsp;</font><font face="SimSun" size="3"> <br>
      </font><font face="Arial" size="3"><br>
        What do you think? &nbsp;Thanks.</font><font face="SimSun" size="3">
      </font><font face="Arial" size="3"><br>
        Tricci </font><font face="SimSun" size="3"><br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </font>
      <p>
        <table width="100%">
          <tbody>
            <tr valign="top">
              <td width="30%"><font face="Arial" size="1"><b>h chan
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a></b>
                  <br>
                  Sent by: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></font><font
                  face="SimSun" size="3"> </font>
                <p><font face="Arial" size="1">06/08/2012 08:08 AM</font><font
                    face="SimSun" size="3">
                  </font>
                </p>
              </td>
              <td width="69%">
                <br>
                <table width="100%">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr valign="top">
                      <td width="7%">
                        <div align="right"><font face="Arial" size="1">To</font></div>
                      </td>
                      <td width="92%"><font face="Arial" size="1">"Charles
                          E. Perkins"
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:charliep@computer.org">&lt;charliep@computer.org&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a></font><font
                          face="SimSun" size="3">
                        </font>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr valign="top">
                      <td>
                        <div align="right"><font face="Arial" size="1">cc</font></div>
                      </td>
                      <td><font face="Arial" size="1"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a>
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>,
                          Behcet Sarikaya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com">&lt;sarikaya2012@gmail.com&gt;</a></font><font
                          face="SimSun" size="3">
                        </font>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr valign="top">
                      <td>
                        <div align="right"><font face="Arial" size="1">Subject</font></div>
                      </td>
                      <td><font face="Arial" size="1">Re: [DMM] draft
                          requirement discussions</font></td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <br>
                <font face="SimSun" size="3">&nbsp;</font>
                <p>
                  <br>
                  <table>
                    <tbody>
                      <tr valign="top">
                        <td>
                          <br>
                        </td>
                        <td><br>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                  <br>
                </p>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <br>
        <font face="SimSun" size="3"><br>
          <br>
        </font><font face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          Let me explain why I picked the use of SHALL and SHOULD in
          this draft:
          <br>
          <br>
          REQ-1 and REQ-2 are requirements of distributed mobility
          management. They
          address relevant problems in centralized deployment, which are
          the reasons
          for the dmm work. If the solutions does not meet these
          requirements, they
          probably may not qualify as a dmm solution. <br>
          <br>
          The rest of the requirements: REQ-3, REQ-4, REQ-5, REQ-6 are
          requirements
          not limited to dmm but are needed in any mobility management.
          Yet I do
          not know whether the dmm proposals submitted by various people
          so far can
          meet all these requirements. I do not know even if every
          existing centralized
          mobility management protocols meet all these requirements. If
          we insist
          on using SHALL, we will not be able to name any of them as a
          mobility management
          solution if that solution fails any one of them. <br>
          <br>
          So I guess the use of these later requirements is not to
          disqualify these
          solutions, but to enable the user to tell whether which
          solution meets
          or does not meet each requirement. Therefore I think that the
          use of SHOULD
          is sufficient. <br>
          <br>
          H Anthony Chan<br>
          <br>
          -----Original Message-----<br>
          From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><font color="blue"
            face="SimSun" size="2"><u>mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2">]
          On Behalf Of h chan<br>
          Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:00 AM<br>
          To: Charles E. Perkins; Peter McCann<br>
          Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; Behcet Sarikaya<br>
          Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<br>
          <br>
          A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so
          far together
          with the problem statements has been uploaded:<br>
        </font><font color="blue" face="SimSun" size="3"><u><br>
          </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          <br>
          The following is an explanation of how it is structured. <br>
          <br>
          Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on
          problem statement
          listed 5 of them as relevant problems. <br>
          <br>
          In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address
          all the
          relevant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing
          centralized deployments.
          So I think they are the key requirements. They both use
          "SHALL"<br>
          <br>
          The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements
          with existing
          centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the "SHALL" very
          sparingly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing
          mobility
          protocols a mobility management solution lest they meet all
          the "SHALL"
          requirements. <br>
          <br>
          H Anthony Chan<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          -----Original Message-----<br>
          From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><font color="blue"
            face="SimSun" size="2"><u>mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2">]
          On Behalf Of Charles E. Perkins<br>
          Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM<br>
          To: Peter McCann<br>
          Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; Behcet Sarikaya<br>
          Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          Hello Pete,<br>
          <br>
          Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.<br>
          <br>
          I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM<br>
          requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security<br>
          mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.<br>
          <br>
          Regards,<br>
          Charlie P.<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:<br>
          &gt; I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to
          answer your<br>
          &gt; comment, Charles. &nbsp;For instance, he removed the text that
          said,<br>
          &gt; "should not be considered the default." &nbsp;Are you ok
          with his new<br>
          &gt; proposed text? &nbsp;If not, can you propose text that you
          would like?<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; -Pete<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Charles E. Perkins wrote:<br>
          &gt;&gt; Hello folks,<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a
          good point
          for a <br>
          &gt;&gt; new draft.<br>
          &gt;&gt; However, there are still some points of discussion
          that are perhaps
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email
          earlier this week).<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
          &gt;&gt; Charlie P.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Hi
          Jouni,<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;What
          are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and
          never <br>
          &gt;&gt; ending discussions.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Isn't
          it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard <br>
          &gt;&gt; work and move on?<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Regards,<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Behcet<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;On
          Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, the second
          and third sentences are not additional requirements, <br>
          &gt;&gt; but rather explanations of the requirement in the
          first sentence.
          Does <br>
          &gt;&gt; the rewrite sound better now:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency
          to Upper Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions
          SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when <br>
          &gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile
          hosts or
          entire <br>
          &gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to
          the Internet,
          for <br>
          &gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change
          of IP address.<br>
          &gt;&gt; Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP
          address or
          prefix <br>
          &gt;&gt; during handover may be declined.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a>
          [</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><font color="blue"
            face="SimSun" size="2"><u>mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2">]<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Wednesday,
          June 06, 2012 12:56 AM<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: h chan<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>;
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: ´ð¸´:
          Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:<br>
          &gt;&gt; Transparency to Upper Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi Anthony:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The last part of
          the sentence (i.e. but the need to maintain a <br>
          &gt;&gt; stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken
          as<br>
          &gt;&gt; default.) seems a littel strange to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just
          describes
          under <br>
          &gt;&gt; what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e.
          when the mobile
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of
          attachment
          to <br>
          &gt;&gt; the Internet, for the application flows that cannot
          cope with
          a change <br>
          &gt;&gt; of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise
          the transparency
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; is not needed. So why bother to write the last part
          of the sentence£¿<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Besides, when mobile
          node attaches to its home network, it will <br>
          &gt;&gt; obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home
          network.
          The IP <br>
          &gt;&gt; address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as
          long as the
          mobile <br>
          &gt;&gt; does not change its point of attachment. The last
          part of the
          sentence <br>
          &gt;&gt; will just exclude this scenario.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If I make any mistake,
          please correct me.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Luowen<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; h chan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; ·¢ ¼þÈË: &nbsp;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; 2012/06/06 01:12<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; ÊÕ¼þÈË<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">"dmm@ietf.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a>,
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; jouni korhonen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">&lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; ³­ËÍ<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Ö÷Ìâ<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to
          Upper Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Revise as follows:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency
          to Upper Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions
          SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when <br>
          &gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile
          hosts or
          entire <br>
          &gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to
          the Internet,
          for <br>
          &gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change
          of IP address,
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or
          prefix SHOULD
          NOT <br>
          &gt;&gt; be taken as default.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation
          for REQ-2)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this
          requirement is to enable more efficient use of <br>
          &gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing by not
          maintaining
          a <br>
          &gt;&gt; stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; [</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><font color="blue"
            face="SimSun" size="2"><u>mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2">]
          On Behalf Of h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Wednesday,
          May<br>
          &gt;&gt; 23, 2012 7:51 PM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To:
          Peter McCann; jouni korhonen &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [DMM]
          draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper <br>
          &gt;&gt; Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; An attempt to clean
          up the text so far:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency
          to Upper Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions
          SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when <br>
          &gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile
          hosts or
          entire <br>
          &gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to
          the Internet,
          for <br>
          &gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change
          of IP address,
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation
          for REQ-2)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this
          requirement is to enable more efficient use of <br>
          &gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing when
          mobility support
          is <br>
          &gt;&gt; implemented by not invoking it for the application
          flows and nodes
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; that do not need it.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RELEVANT problem:
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; PS5: Wasting resources to support
          mobile nodes not<br>
          &gt;&gt; needing mobility support &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          IP mobility support is not always required.<br>
          &gt;&gt; For example, some applications do not need a stable
          IP address
          during <br>
          &gt;&gt; handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the
          entire <br>
          &gt;&gt; application session runs while the terminal does not
          change the
          point of attachment.<br>
          &gt;&gt; In these situations that do not require IP mobility
          support, network
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; resources are wasted when including additional info
          to the mobility
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; context to support the change the point of
          attachment. Network
          <br>
          &gt;&gt; resources are also wasted when the via routes are set
          up for many
          MNs that do not<br>
          &gt;&gt; require IP mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; OTHER related problem &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          O-PS1: Mobility<br>
          &gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp;
          &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; While mobility<br>
          &gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the
          hosts may
          then <br>
          &gt;&gt; communicate directly so that the mobility support is
          no longer
          needed.<br>
          &gt;&gt; Taking the need of mobility support as the default
          behavior will
          waste<br>
          &gt;&gt; network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O-PS2:
          Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Centralized<br>
          &gt;&gt; deployment compared with distributed mobility
          management may be
          less <br>
          &gt;&gt; capable to support user-centricity. Example in the
          lack of <br>
          &gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all
          mobile nodes
          by <br>
          &gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user needs it or
          not.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Peter McCann &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Friday, May<br>
          &gt;&gt; 18, 2012 9:35 AM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To:
          jouni korhonen; h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc:
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: RE: [DMM]
          draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper <br>
          &gt;&gt; Layers<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi, Jouni,<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; jouni korhonen
          wrote: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Few comments/questions here: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;
          On<br>
          &gt;&gt; May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          REQ-2: Transparency to<br>
          &gt;&gt; Upper Layers &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the<br>
          &gt;&gt; IP layer. Such &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          transparency is needed for the application flows<br>
          &gt;&gt; that cannot cope with &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile hosts<br>
          &gt;&gt; or entire mobile networks &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the<br>
          &gt;&gt; Internet, but SHOULD NOT be &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the
          default behavior" seem<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; to conflict.
          So, what is really meant here? Does this mean something<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; like "MUST
          implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or can one leave<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; transparency
          completely away if the applications/hosts just don't<br>
          &gt;&gt; care &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; whether IP
          changes or not?<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think the latter.
          &nbsp;If the applications don't care about<br>
          &gt;&gt; transparency, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; then
          we don't need to pay for it with state and<br>
          &gt;&gt; signaling in the network.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However, we know
          that some applications do care, so it SHALL be<br>
          &gt;&gt; possible &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to provide
          it.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; REQ-2M
          (Motivation for REQ-2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          The goal of this requirement is<br>
          &gt;&gt; to &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; enable
          more efficient use of network resources and more<br>
          &gt;&gt; efficient &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          routing by not invoking mobility support when there is no<br>
          &gt;&gt; such need. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Does this still mean the mobility
          support must be<br>
          &gt;&gt; implement even if it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &gt; is not used?<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We need some strategy
          for keeping an IP address through some amount of<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mobility. &nbsp;However,
          we needn't optimize the network for this case as<br>
          &gt;&gt; it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might be rather
          uncommon to keep an address for a very long period<br>
          &gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; time.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RELEVANT
          problem: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting
          resources to support mobile<br>
          &gt;&gt; nodes not needing mobility &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not<br>
          &gt;&gt; always required. For example, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; some &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          applications do not need a<br>
          &gt;&gt; stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; session continuity.<br>
          &gt;&gt; Sometimes, the entire application session runs &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; while the terminal<br>
          &gt;&gt; does not change the point of attachment. In these &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; situations that<br>
          &gt;&gt; do not require IP mobility support, network resources
          &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; are wasted<br>
          &gt;&gt; when mobility context is set up. Network resources
          are also &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wasted<br>
          &gt;&gt; when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do
          not require
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IP<br>
          &gt;&gt; mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; OTHER related problem
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobility<br>
          &gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp;
          &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; While mobility<br>
          &gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the
          &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hosts may<br>
          &gt;&gt; then communicate directly so that the mobility
          support is no &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; longer<br>
          &gt;&gt; needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the
          default &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; behavior<br>
          &gt;&gt; will waste network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with distributed
          mobility management<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; may be
          less capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack<br>
          &gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; user-centricity
          is to provide mobility support to all mobile<br>
          &gt;&gt; nodes by &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivation
          makes sense though<br>
          &gt;&gt; but &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; the title
          "lack of user-centricity" is somewhat confusing.. what<br>
          &gt;&gt; does &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; forced/always-on
          mobility support has to do with user<br>
          &gt;&gt; centricity?<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think Anthony
          just meant that we should tailor the mobility<br>
          &gt;&gt; management &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to the needs
          of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn't mind seeing this<br>
          &gt;&gt; explanatory text &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; re-worded.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Pete<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; - Jouni &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with<br>
          &gt;&gt; contributions, inputs and discussions &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; from various people.<br>
          &gt;&gt; Additional contributions and comments are most &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; welcome.) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
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          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; dmm mailing list &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
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          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;
        </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          _______________________________________________
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a> &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          _______________________________________________
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a> &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
          &nbsp;_______________________________________________<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dmm
          mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          -- <br>
          Regards,<br>
          Charlie P.<br>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          dmm mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a></font><font color="blue" face="SimSun" size="3"><u><br>
          </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          dmm mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a></font><font color="blue" face="SimSun" size="3"><u><br>
          </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          dmm mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a></font><font color="blue" face="SimSun" size="3"><u><br>
          </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><font
            color="blue" face="SimSun" size="2"><u>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</u></font></a><font
          face="SimSun" size="2"><br>
        </font>
        <br>
        <font face="SimSun" size="3">&nbsp;</font>
        <br>
        <font face="SimSun" size="3">--------------------------------------------------------</font>
        <br>
        <font face="SimSun" size="3">ZTE Information Security Notice:
          The information
          contained in this mail (and any attachment transmitted
          herewith) is privileged
          and confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the
          addressee(s).
          &nbsp;If you are not an intended recipient, any disclosure,
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      </p>
      <pre>--------------------------------------------------------
ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;attachment&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;herewith)&nbsp;is&nbsp;privileged&nbsp;and&nbsp;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;is&nbsp;intended&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;exclusive&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;addressee(s).&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;an&nbsp;intended&nbsp;recipient,&nbsp;any&nbsp;disclosure,&nbsp;reproduction,&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;or&nbsp;other&nbsp;dissemination&nbsp;or&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;is&nbsp;strictly&nbsp;prohibited.&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;received&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;in&nbsp;error,&nbsp;please&nbsp;delete&nbsp;it&nbsp;and&nbsp;notify&nbsp;us&nbsp;immediately.

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Regards,
Charlie P.</pre>
  </body>
</html>

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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dear Tricci,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yes we need requirements =
on what are absolutely needed but we don=A1=AFt want to shut off innovation=
s in the solutions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Let me try to look at the=
 compatibility issue with an example.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If the operator has never=
 deployed the old solution, it may choose not to support the old solution. =
So, what the operator wants to support depends on the environment
 in which the new solution is to be used. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If a solution is already =
deployed in a network, and a new solution is to be deployed in the same net=
work. What is needed is that the operator is able to continue
 to support the existing solution while providing the new solution. &nbsp;S=
o the new solution is able to enable to operator to continue to use the old=
 solution. That is, the new solution does not cause the old solution to bre=
ak. It is therefore able to co-exist
 with the old solution in a manner that the old solution can continue to be=
 supported. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">How about the following t=
ext:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD be a=
ble to work between trusted administrative domains when allowed by the secu=
rity measures
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">deployed between these domai=
ns.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Furthermore, the DMM solutio=
n MUST be able to co-exist
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">with existing network deploy=
ment and end hosts so that the existing deployment can continue to be suppo=
rted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">For example, depending on th=
e environment in which dmm is deployed,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">the dmm solutions may need t=
o be compatible with other existing mobility protocols that are deployed in=
 that environment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">or may need to be interopera=
ble with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the dm=
m enabling protocol.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> tso@zteu=
sa.com [mailto:tso@zteusa.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 11, 2012 4:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Charles E. Perkins; dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; Behcet Sarikaya<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Dear Anthony,
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lue">Sincerely thank you for your kind feedback. &nbsp;I would be ok with t=
he rest of the text as you suggested. &nbsp;However, for the 2nd secntence =
as you have in current text for REQ4...</span>
<br>
<tt>&gt; </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted administra=
tive </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt; domains when allowed by the security measures deployed between the=
se </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backw=
ards </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts. &nbs=
p;For </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, th=
e </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; dmm solutions may need to be compatible with other existing mobili=
ty </tt><br>
<tt>&gt; protocols that are deployed in that environment or may need to be =
</tt><br>
<tt>&gt; interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do=
 not </tt>
<br>
<tt>&gt; support the dmm enabling protocol.</tt> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lue">Should we replace the &quot;SHOULD&quot; to &quot;SHALL&quot;? &nbsp; =
Backward compatibility should not be optional, right?
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lue">Thanks in advance for your kind consideration. &nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lue">Tricci </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">06/11/2012 09:41 AM</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;tso@zteusa.com&quot; &lt;tso@zteusa.=
com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;Charles E. Perkins&quot; &lt;charlie=
p@computer.org&gt;, &quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;, Peter Mc=
Cann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, Behcet Sarikaya &lt;sarikaya2012@gmai=
l.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">Dear Tricci,</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">In the current text, only the first 2 sentences are requirements.=
 The remaining sentences are not additional requirements but are explanatio=
ns and examples of the requirements. The explanatory sentences
 says: depending on the environment. It is anticipating some are needed and=
 some are not needed depending on the specific network environment they are=
 deployed. In this sense, is it sufficient to use should?
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">H Anthony Chan</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> tso@zteusa.com [</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:tso@zteusa.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:tso@zteusa.com</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 11:34 AM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> Charles E. Perkins; dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; Behcet Sarikaya<b><=
br>
Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</span> <br>
&nbsp; <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Dear A=
nthony, </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Thank you for clarifying your considerations on how to determine &quot;shal=
l&quot; vs. &quot;should&quot;. &nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
May be it is just my lack of understanding for the motivation for defining =
the requirement. :(</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
Should the requirements be defined based on the realistic use cases and not=
 based on individual proposals? &nbsp;I sincerely hope that all of our prop=
osals are targeting to solve the real problem in today network deployment s=
cenarios. &nbsp;</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
What do you think? &nbsp;Thanks.</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
Tricci </span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"30%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:30.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt=
;</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
Sent by: dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">06/08/2012 08:08 AM</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"69%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:69.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
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<td width=3D"7%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:7.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"92%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:92.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;Charles E. Perkins&quot; &lt;charlie=
p@computer.org&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&=
gt;, Behcet Sarikaya &lt;sarikaya2012@gmail.com&gt;</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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=3D"0">
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<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
Let me explain why I picked the use of SHALL and SHOULD in this draft: <br>
<br>
REQ-1 and REQ-2 are requirements of distributed mobility management. They a=
ddress relevant problems in centralized deployment, which are the reasons f=
or the dmm work. If the solutions does not meet these requirements, they pr=
obably may not qualify as a dmm
 solution. <br>
<br>
The rest of the requirements: REQ-3, REQ-4, REQ-5, REQ-6 are requirements n=
ot limited to dmm but are needed in any mobility management. Yet I do not k=
now whether the dmm proposals submitted by various people so far can meet a=
ll these requirements. I do not
 know even if every existing centralized mobility management protocols meet=
 all these requirements. If we insist on using SHALL, we will not be able t=
o name any of them as a mobility management solution if that solution fails=
 any one of them.
<br>
<br>
So I guess the use of these later requirements is not to disqualify these s=
olutions, but to enable the user to tell whether which solution meets or do=
es not meet each requirement. Therefore I think that the use of SHOULD is s=
ufficient.
<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [</span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of h chan<br>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:00 AM<br>
To: Charles E. Perkins; Peter McCann<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya<br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<br>
<br>
A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so far together w=
ith the problem statements has been uploaded:<br>
</span><u><span style=3D"color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01=
.txt"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dm=
m-requirements-01.txt</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<br>
The following is an explanation of how it is structured. <br>
<br>
Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on problem stateme=
nt listed 5 of them as relevant problems.
<br>
<br>
In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address all the rele=
vant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing centralized deploymen=
ts. So I think they are the key requirements. They both use &quot;SHALL&quo=
t;<br>
<br>
The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements with existin=
g centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the &quot;SHALL&quot; very s=
paringly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing mobility proto=
cols a mobility management solution lest they
 meet all the &quot;SHALL&quot; requirements. <br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [</span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of Charles E. Perkins<br>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM<br>
To: Peter McCann<br>
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya<br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Pete,<br>
<br>
Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.<br>
<br>
I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM<br>
requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security<br>
mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Charlie P.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:<br>
&gt; I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your<br>
&gt; comment, Charles. &nbsp;For instance, he removed the text that said,<b=
r>
&gt; &quot;should not be considered the default.&quot; &nbsp;Are you ok wit=
h his new<br>
&gt; proposed text? &nbsp;If not, can you propose text that you would like?=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -Pete<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Charles E. Perkins wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hello folks,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for=
 a <br>
&gt;&gt; new draft.<br>
&gt;&gt; However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhap=
s <br>
&gt;&gt; worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week)=
.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;&gt; Charlie P.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Hi J=
ouni,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;What=
 are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and never
<br>
&gt;&gt; ending discussions.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Isn'=
t it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his hard
<br>
&gt;&gt; work and move on?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Rega=
rds,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Behc=
et<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;On W=
ed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, the second and th=
ird sentences are not additional requirements,
<br>
&gt;&gt; but rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. =
Does <br>
&gt;&gt; the rewrite sound better now:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency to=
 Upper Layers<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions SHAL=
L provide transparency above the IP layer when
<br>
&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or enti=
re <br>
&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for <br>
&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address=
.<br>
&gt;&gt; Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or pref=
ix <br>
&gt;&gt; during handover may be declined.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: luo.wen@zte.com.=
cn [</span><a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"=
>]<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, June =
06, 2012 12:56 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: h chan<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: dmm@ietf.org; dmm-=
bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: <span lang=3D=
"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2:<br>
&gt;&gt; Transparency to Upper Layers<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi Anthony:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The last part of the s=
entence (i.e. but the need to maintain a
<br>
&gt;&gt; stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as<br>
&gt;&gt; default.) seems a littel strange to me. &nbsp;REQ-2 just describes=
 under <br>
&gt;&gt; what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the mobil=
e <br>
&gt;&gt; hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment t=
o <br>
&gt;&gt; the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a ch=
ange <br>
&gt;&gt; of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the transparen=
cy <br>
&gt;&gt; is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the sentenc=
e<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=A3=BF</span><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Besides, when mobile n=
ode attaches to its home network, it will
<br>
&gt;&gt; obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The =
IP <br>
&gt;&gt; address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the mobi=
le <br>
&gt;&gt; does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the sent=
ence <br>
&gt;&gt; will just exclude this scenario.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; If I make any mistake,=
 please correct me.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Luowen<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; h chan &lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2 =BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: &nbsp;dmm-bounces=
@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2012/06/06 01:12<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot; &lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;, Peter McCann &lt;Pe=
ter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;, <br>
&gt;&gt; jouni korhonen &lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers<br=
>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Revise as follows:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency to=
 Upper Layers<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions SHAL=
L provide transparency above the IP layer when
<br>
&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or enti=
re <br>
&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for <br>
&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address=
, <br>
&gt;&gt; but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD=
 NOT <br>
&gt;&gt; be taken as default.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation for=
 REQ-2)<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this requi=
rement is to enable more efficient use of
<br>
&gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a =
<br>
&gt;&gt; stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-=
---- &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org=
<br>
&gt;&gt; [</span><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt">] On Behalf Of h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Sent: Wednesday, May<br>
&gt;&gt; 23, 2012 7:51 PM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: P=
eter McCann; jouni korhonen &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc:=
 dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [DMM] dra=
ft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
<br>
&gt;&gt; Layers<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; An attempt to clean up=
 the text so far:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2: Transparency to=
 Upper Layers<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The DMM solutions SHAL=
L provide transparency above the IP layer when
<br>
&gt;&gt; needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or enti=
re <br>
&gt;&gt; mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for <br>
&gt;&gt; the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address=
, <br>
&gt;&gt; but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; REQ-2M (Motivation for=
 REQ-2)<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The goal of this requi=
rement is to enable more efficient use of
<br>
&gt;&gt; network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support=
 is <br>
&gt;&gt; implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes=
 <br>
&gt;&gt; that do not need it.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RELEVANT problem: &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; PS5: Wasting resources to support m=
obile nodes not<br>
&gt;&gt; needing mobility support &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; IP mobility support is not always required.<br>
&gt;&gt; For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address dur=
ing <br>
&gt;&gt; handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire <br>
&gt;&gt; application session runs while the terminal does not change the po=
int of attachment.<br>
&gt;&gt; In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, netwo=
rk <br>
&gt;&gt; resources are wasted when including additional info to the mobilit=
y <br>
&gt;&gt; context to support the change the point of attachment. Network <br=
>
&gt;&gt; resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many =
MNs that do not<br>
&gt;&gt; require IP mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; OTHER related problem &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O-=
PS1: Mobility<br>
&gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; While mobility<br>
&gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts may th=
en <br>
&gt;&gt; communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer nee=
ded.<br>
&gt;&gt; Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will w=
aste<br>
&gt;&gt; network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; O-P=
S2: Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cen=
tralized<br>
&gt;&gt; deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be le=
ss <br>
&gt;&gt; capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of <br>
&gt;&gt; user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes=
 by <br>
&gt;&gt; default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-=
---- &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Peter McCann &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Friday, May<br>
&gt;&gt; 18, 2012 9:35 AM &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: j=
ouni korhonen; h chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: dmm@i=
etf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: RE: [DMM] dra=
ft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper
<br>
&gt;&gt; Layers<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi, Jouni,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; jouni korhonen wrote: =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Few comments/questions here: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; =
On<br>
&gt;&gt; May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
REQ-2: Transparency to<br>
&gt;&gt; Upper Layers &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
The DMM solutions SHALL enable transparency above the<br>
&gt;&gt; IP layer. Such &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt=
; transparency is needed for the application flows<br>
&gt;&gt; that cannot cope with &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&gt;&gt; a change of IP address and when mobile hosts<br>
&gt;&gt; or entire mobile networks &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &gt;&gt; change their point of attachment to the<br>
&gt;&gt; Internet, but SHOULD NOT be &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &gt;&gt; taken as the default behavior. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;SHALL enable&quot; but &quot;SHOULD NOT be taken as the defa=
ult behavior&quot; seem<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; to conflict. So, =
what is really meant here? Does this mean something<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; like &quot;MUST i=
mplement, SHOULD use&quot; type of solution? Or can one leave<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; transparency comp=
letely away if the applications/hosts just don't<br>
&gt;&gt; care &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; whether IP c=
hanges or not?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think the latter. &n=
bsp;If the applications don't care about<br>
&gt;&gt; transparency, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; then we =
don't need to pay for it with state and<br>
&gt;&gt; signaling in the network.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However, we know that =
some applications do care, so it SHALL be<br>
&gt;&gt; possible &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to provide it=
.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; REQ-2M (Motiv=
ation for REQ-2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The g=
oal of this requirement is<br>
&gt;&gt; to &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; enable mor=
e efficient use of network resources and more<br>
&gt;&gt; efficient &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; rou=
ting by not invoking mobility support when there is no<br>
&gt;&gt; such need. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Does this still mean the mobilit=
y support must be<br>
&gt;&gt; implement even if it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
gt; is not used?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We need some strategy =
for keeping an IP address through some amount of<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mobility. &nbsp;Howeve=
r, we needn't optimize the network for this case as<br>
&gt;&gt; it &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; might be rather unc=
ommon to keep an address for a very long period<br>
&gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; time.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RELEVANT prob=
lem: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PS5: Wasting reso=
urces to support mobile<br>
&gt;&gt; nodes not needing mobility &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &gt;&gt; support IP mobility support is not<br>
&gt;&gt; always required. For example, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &gt;&gt; some &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; =
applications do not need a<br>
&gt;&gt; stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; session continuity.<br>
&gt;&gt; Sometimes, the entire application session runs &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; while the terminal<br>
&gt;&gt; does not change the point of attachment. In these &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; situations that<br>
&gt;&gt; do not require IP mobility support, network resources &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; are wasted<br>
&gt;&gt; when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wasted<br>
&gt;&gt; when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IP<br>
&gt;&gt; mobility support. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; OTHER related pro=
blem &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS1: Mobility<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; While mobility<br>
&gt;&gt; management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hosts may<br>
&gt;&gt; then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; longer<br>
&gt;&gt; needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; behavior<br>
&gt;&gt; will waste network resources. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &gt;&gt; O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility manageme=
nt<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; may be less c=
apable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack<br>
&gt;&gt; of &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; user-centr=
icity is to provide mobility support to all mobile<br>
&gt;&gt; nodes by &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; defa=
ult regardless of whether the user needs it or not.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the motivati=
on makes sense though<br>
&gt;&gt; but &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; the title &qu=
ot;lack of user-centricity&quot; is somewhat confusing.. what<br>
&gt;&gt; does &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; forced/alway=
s-on mobility support has to do with user<br>
&gt;&gt; centricity?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think Anthony just m=
eant that we should tailor the mobility<br>
&gt;&gt; management &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to the need=
s of the user. &nbsp;I wouldn't mind seeing this<br>
&gt;&gt; explanatory text &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; re-wo=
rded.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Pete<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; - Jouni &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted
 with<br>
&gt;&gt; contributions, inputs and discussions &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; from various people.<br>
&gt;&gt; Additional contributions and comments are most &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; welcome.) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<=
br>
&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; dmm mailing list &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; </sp=
an><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________=
_________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm m=
ailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________=
_________________________ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm m=
ailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________=
_________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </span><a href=3D"http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt"><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;____=
___________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dmm =
mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dmm@=
ietf.org<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</sp=
an><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Regards,<br>
Charlie P.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org</span><u><span style=3D"color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org</span><u><span style=3D"color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
dmm@ietf.org</span><u><span style=3D"color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><br>
&nbsp; <br>
-------------------------------------------------------- <br>
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<pre>--------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;informat=
ion&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;atta=
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<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
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Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun 14 19:21:13 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:19:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment
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Changed SHALL to MUST.
Clean up text:

   REQ1:  Distributed deployment

          IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by
          DMM MUST enable a distributed deployment of mobility
          management of IP sessions so that the traffic can be routed in
          an optimal manner without traversing centrally deployed
          mobility anchors.

          Motivation: The motivations of this requirement are to match
          mobility deployment with current trend in network evolution:
          more cost and resource effective to cache and distribute
          contents when combining distributed anchors with caching
          systems (e.g., CDN); improve scalability; avoid single point
          of failure; mitigate threats being focused on a centrally
          deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mobility anchor.

   This requirement addresses the following problems PS1, PS2, PS3, and
   PS4.

   PS1:  Non-optimal routes

         Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer
         route, and the problem is especially manifested when accessing
         a local or cache server of a Content Delivery Network (CDN).

   PS2:  Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture

         The centralized mobility management can become non-optimal as a
         network architecture evolves and becomes more flattened.

   PS3:  Low scalability of centralized route and mobility context
         maintenance

         Setting up such special routes and maintaining the mobility
         context for each MN is more difficult to scale in a centralized
         design with a large number of MNs.  Distributing the route
         maintenance function and the mobility context maintenance
         function among different networks can be more scalable.

   PS4:  Single point of failure and attack

         Centralized anchoring may be more vulnerable to single point of
         failure and attack than a distributed system.

H Anthony Chan


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:35 PM
To: jouni korhonen
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment

o "centrally deployed anchors" what if the access network routing is laid
  out in a way that even pure IP routing would lead packets to go through a=
=20
  central site/edge router? Doesn't that lead to similar deficiencies than
  with mobility anchors?

Let us call it "centrally deployed mobility anchors" in the requirement.=20

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: jouni korhonen [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:46 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-1: Distributed deployment

Breaking the silence..

On May 7, 2012, at 8:55 PM, h chan wrote:

> REQ-1: Distributed deployment
> IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by DMM SHALL e=
nable the functions of mobility management of IP sessions to be distributed=
 so that the traffic is routed in an optimal manner without relying on cent=
rally deployed anchors.

Few comments/questions..
o "SHALL enable the functions of mobility management" does that imply the
  DMM "solution" must always involve or extend a mobility protocol? IMHO
  that should not be a SHALL requirement.

o "centrally deployed anchors" what if the access network routing is laid
  out in a way that even pure IP routing would lead packets to go through a=
=20
  central site/edge router? Doesn't that lead to similar deficiencies than
  with mobility anchors?

> =20
> REQ-1M (Motivation for REQ-1)
> The goals of this requirement are to
> match mobility deployment with current trend in network evolution: more c=
ost and resource effective to cache and distribute contents when combining =
distributed anchors with caching systems (e.g., CDN); improve scalability; =
reduce signaling overhead; avoid single point of failure; mitigate threats =
being focused on a centrally deployed anchor, e.g., home agent and local mo=
bility anchor.

Reduce signaling overhead.. is a very good goal. However, if any DMM
solution builds on top of an existing mobility protocol that hardly
reduces anything. Also if setting up optimal routes require establishing
new tunnels, signaling is bound to increase. I would say here "does not
increase the amount of present signaling" and the aim for solutions that
would reduce it somehow.

> =20
> RELEVANT problems:
> PS1: Non-optimal routes
> Routing via a centralized anchor often results in a longer route, and the=
 problem is especially manifested when accessing a local or cache server of=
 a Content Delivery Network (CDN).
> PS2: Non-optimality in Evolved Network Architecture
> The centralized mobility management can become non-optimal as Network arc=
hitecture evolves and become more flattened.

More flat is kind of superfluous.. take e.g. EPS example. You have, in an o=
ptimal
case, an eNodeB connected directly to a combined SGW/PGW from the user plan=
e point
of view. And the SGW/PGW you can allocate close to you eNodeB based on its =
topological
location. How you can make that more flat? SGW relocation changes the situa=
tion a bit
but still..

> PS3: Low scalability of centralized route and mobility context maintenanc=
e
> Setting up such special routes and maintaining the mobility context for e=
ach MN is more difficult to scale in a centralized design with a large numb=
er of MNs.

Can I assume the mobility context involves a possible per MN tunnel state?

> Distributing the route maintenance function and the mobility context main=
tenance function among different networks can be more scalable.
> PS4: Single point of failure and attack
> Centralized anchoring may be more vulnerable to single point of failure a=
nd attack than a distributed system.
> =20
> (The above is drafted with contributions, inputs and discussions from var=
ious people. Additional contributions and comments are most welcome.)
> =20

- Jouni



> H Anthony Chan
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
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From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun 14 19:23:23 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:21:04 +0000
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Cc: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
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Changed SHALL to MUST
Clean up text:
   REQ2:  Transparency to Upper Layers when needed

          The DMM solutions MUST provide transparency above the IP layer
          when needed.  Such transparency is needed, when the mobile
          hosts or entire mobile networks [RFC3963] change their point
          of attachment to the Internet, for the application flows that
          cannot cope with a change of IP address.  Otherwise the
          support to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix during
          handover may be declined.

          Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to enable
          more efficient use of network resources and more efficient
          routing by not maintaining a stable IP home IP address when
          there is no such need.

   This requirement addresses the problems PS5 as well as the other
   related problem O-PS1.

   PS5:  Wasting resources to support mobile nodes not needing mobility
         support

         IP mobility support is not always required.  For example, some
         applications do not need a stable IP address during handover,
         i.e., IP session continuity.  Sometimes, the entire application
         session runs while the terminal does not change the point of
         attachment.  In these situations that do not require IP
         mobility support, network resources are wasted when mobility
         context is set up.

   O-PS1:  Mobility signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication

           Wasting resources when mobility signaling (e.g., maintenance
           of the tunnel, keep alive, etc.) is not turned off for peer-
           to-peer communication.


H Anthony Chan


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h cha=
n
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:24 PM
To: Charles E. Perkins
Cc: Peter McCann; dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers

How about the following change:

REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when needed=
. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile netwo=
rks change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application f=
lows that cannot cope with a change of IP address. Otherwise the support to=
 maintain a stable home IP address or prefix during handover may be decline=
d.

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:39 PM
To: h chan
Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Peter McCann; jouni korhonen
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers

On 6/5/2012 10:12 AM, h chan wrote:
> Revise as follows:
>
> REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
> The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the IP layer when need=
ed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or entire mobile net=
works change their point of attachment to the Internet, for the application=
 flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address, but the need to mainta=
in a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as default.
> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
> The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient use of network r=
esources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a stable IP home IP =
address when there is no such need.
>
> H Anthony Chan

I think it should be possible for the user of a device to set which behavio=
r
is to be considered the default behavior for all applications on that=20
device.

This would leave open the possibility that, unless the user specifies=20
otherwise,
the device would be configured to have "unstable" addressing as default.

--=20
Regards,
Charlie P.

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun 14 19:26:02 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "Charles E. Perkins" <charliep@computer.org>, "tso@zteusa.com" <tso@zteusa.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility
Thread-Index: AQHNRapo8fVXc0FXDkCREFpkFnZb9Jb6sBpQ
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:24:49 +0000
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Clean up text:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp; REQ4:&nbsp; Compatibility<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; The DMM solution SHOULD be able to work between trusted<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; administrative domains when allowed by the security measures<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; deployed between these domains.&nbsp; Furthermore, the DMM so=
lution<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; MUST be able to co-exist with existing network deployment and=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; end hosts so that the existing deployment can continue to be<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; supported.&nbsp; For example, depending on the environment in=
 which<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; dmm is deployed, the dmm solutions may need to be compatible<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; with other existing mobility protocols that are deployed in<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; that environment or may need to be interoperable with the<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; dmm enabling protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to allow<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; inter-domain operation if desired and to preserve backwards<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts are not=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; affected and do not break.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp; This requirement addresses t=
he following other related problem O-PS2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp; O-PS2:&nbsp; Complicated dep=
loyment with too many variants and extensions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of MIP Deployment is complicated with many variants and=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; extensions of MIP.&nbsp; When introducing new functions=
 which may<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add to the complicity, existing solutions are more vuln=
erable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to break.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:windowtext"> Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep@computer.org]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 3:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> tso@zteusa.com; dmm@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Hello folks,<br>
<br>
Why don't we use &quot;MUST&quot; and not &quot;SHALL&quot; when specifying=
 mandatory features?<br>
<br>
There are a lot of people who might interpret &quot;SHALL&quot; to mean &qu=
ot;SHOULD&quot;, and I<br>
don't see any reason to choose language that might be confusing.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Charlie P.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/8/2012 8:11 AM, h chan wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I am answering the use of=
 SHALL and SHOULD in a separate email thread on the requirements in general=
: DMM draft requirement discussions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">H Anthony Chan</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:tso@zteusa.com">tso@zteusa.com</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:tso=
@zteusa.com">mailto:tso@zteusa.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 1:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> h chan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">Dear Anthony an=
d LuoWen,
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Sorry for jumping in late to this discussion. &nbsp;If I have missed =
some prior discussion and repeat the same question, please forgive me.
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">I agree with Anthony's view that, &quot;</span><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:green">=A1=B0</span><=
span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
#004080">Other mobility protocols=A1=B1
 can only refer to the existing mobility protocols that are already deploye=
d. It cannot refer to =A1=B0future protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any protocol in=
 the literature which has not been deployed in the same environment in whic=
h dmm is being deployed.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&quot;</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">However, when I refer to the current writing of the REQ#4:</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4: &nbsp;Compatibili=
ty</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD=
 be able to work between trusted administrative domains when allowed by the=
 security measures deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the D=
MM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility
 with existing network deployment and end hosts. &nbsp;For example, dependi=
ng on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the dmm solutions may need =
to be compatible with other existing mobility protocols that are deployed i=
n that environment or may need to be
 interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not sup=
port the dmm enabling protocol.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation: The motivat=
ion of this requirement is to allow inter-domain operation if desired and t=
o preserve backwards compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts =
are not affected and do not break.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">First question to ask is that, why the backward compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end hosts is &quot;optional&quot;, and not &q=
uot;mandatory&quot;? &nbsp;Wouldn't the compatibility with the existing dep=
loyment
 be the &quot;fundamental&quot; requirement? &nbsp;Hence, the &quot;SHOULD&=
quot; needs to be changed to &quot;SHALL&quot;.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Secondly, IMHO, compatibility has two aspects:
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">(1) backward compatible with existing deployment that has been discus=
sed above, but also</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">(2) no impact with the mobile host but still able to enable the DMM s=
olution at the network</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">I don't believe that we are proposing the DMM solution requirement th=
at must require the mobile node's support, correct?
</span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">If we can agree on these two above fundamental sentiment, then, I wou=
ld like to suggest a friendly amendment to REQ4 as follows:</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">REQ4: &nbsp;Compatibili=
ty</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The DMM solution SHOULD=
 be able to work between trusted administrative domains when allowed by the=
 security measures deployed between these domains. &nbsp;Furthermore, the D=
MM solution
</span><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:red">=
SHALL</span></u></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;colo=
r:red">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">preserve backwar=
ds compatibility with existing network deployment and end hosts. &nbsp;For =
example, depending on the environment in which dmm is deployed, the dmm sol=
utions
</span><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:red">=
SHALL BE</span></u></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;c=
olor:red">
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">compatible with =
other existing mobility protocols that are deployed in that environment or
</span><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:red">=
SHOULD BE </span></u></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
">interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers that do not su=
pport the dmm enabling protocol.
</span><b><u><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:red">=
In addition, it SHOULD BE feasible to enable DMM network solution without t=
he necessity to impact the existing mobile hosts.</span></u></b><span style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Motivation: The motivat=
ion of this requirement is to allow inter-domain operation if desired and t=
o preserve backwards compatibility so that the existing networks and hosts =
are not affected and do not break.</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; </span><br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Hoping that you can accept these changes. &nbsp;Thanks in advance.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:g=
reen">Tricci </span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"35%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:35.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan
<a href=3D"mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&=
gt;</a></span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">Sent by: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">
dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">06/07/2012 09:41 PM</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width=3D"64%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:64.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&quo=
t;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot;</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&lt;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&gt;</a></span>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">&q=
uot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot;</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>, <=
a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">
&quot;dmm@ietf.org&quot;</a> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.o=
rg&gt;</a>, Peter McCann
<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;<=
/a></span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">Luowen,</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">I understand that we earlier had a list of at least 3 requirement=
s bundled inside this REQ-4. We are now adding a 4th and possibly 5th into =
this list regarding inter-domain. So I try to simplify
 3 of them by examining the end result: whether existing network deployment=
 and end hosts will break.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">What the dmm solution needs to do will then depend on the environ=
ment in which it is deployed.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">=A1=B0Other mobility protocols=A1=B1 can only refer to the existi=
ng mobility protocols that are already deployed. It cannot refer to =A1=B0f=
uture protocols=A1=B1 or =A1=B0any protocol in the literature which has not=
 been
 deployed in the same environment in which dmm is being deployed. </span><b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">If you want to be more specific, I suggest to append an explanato=
ry sentence to explain the requirement rather than adding more requirements=
 to the list.
</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">&nbsp;</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#004080">H Anthony Chan</span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080">&nbsp;</span>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a> [</span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Thursday, June 07, 2012 8:21 PM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto=
:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">
dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b><br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibi=
lity</span>
<br>
&nbsp; <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
Hi Antony,</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
Yes, I agree, the DMM solution shall be compatibile with the exsiting netwo=
rk deployments. But only say &quot;Existing network deployment and end host=
s also SHOULD NOT break&quot; or &quot;the DMM solution SHOULD preserve bac=
kwards compatibility with existing network deployment
 and end hosts&quot; may not be very specific.</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
how about </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
The DMM solution SHOULD enable working between trusted administrative domai=
ns when allowed by the security measures deployed between these domains. Fu=
rthermore, the DMM solution SHOULD preserve backwards compatibility with ex=
isting network deployment and end
 hosts that do not support the DMM enabling protocol. </span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
And put those description such as &nbsp;&quot;The DMM solutions SHALL suppo=
rt existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 address assign=
ment), be compatible with other mobility protocols, and be interoperable wi=
th the network or the mobile hosts/routers
 that do not support the DMM enabling protocol so that the existing network=
 deployments and end hosts are not broken.&quot; into the motivation, e.g</=
span>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to ensure the DMM solutio=
ns to support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g. existing IPv6 add=
ress assignment), to be compatible with other mobility protocols, and to be=
 interoperable with the network
 or the mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol,=
 so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not broken.</sp=
an>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
Does it make sense?</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;"><br>
BR</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman , serif&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;"><br>
Luowen</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<tr>
<td width=3D"19%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:19.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan
<a href=3D"mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&=
gt;</a></span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/08 07:13</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
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=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
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<td width=3D"3%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:3.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"96%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:96.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&quo=
t;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&quot;</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">&lt;luo.wen@zte.com.cn&gt;</a></span>=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&quot;dmm@=
ietf.org&quot;</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, <a href=3D"mailto=
:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">
&quot;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&quot;</a> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org=
">&lt;dmm-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>, jouni korhonen
<a href=3D"mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">&lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</a=
>, Peter McCann
<a href=3D"mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;<=
/a></span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">RE: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: com=
patibility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
Luo, <br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
I think =A1=B0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">existing network deployments which are not =
DMM enablded</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">=A1=B1 are included in =A1=B0=
existing network
 deployments. <br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
The end result is the compatibility with existing network deployment and en=
d hosts. So whatever the dmm solution needs to do to ensure such compatibil=
ity. Do you agree?</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080"><br>
H Anthony Chan</span> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#004080">
<br>
</span>&nbsp;<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn">luo.wen@zte.com.cn</a> [</span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn</span=
></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:15 AM<b><br>
To:</b> h chan<b><br>
Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto=
:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">
dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>; jouni korhonen; Peter McCann<b><br>
Subject:</b> </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=F0=
=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility=
</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
Hi Anthony:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;"> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
It seems the REQ-4 is changed a lot. Interworking between trusted </span><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">administ=
rative domains</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> is good to me, and the interworking with e=
xisting
 network deployments which are not DMM enablded is also very important. I b=
elieve we have already have consistency about this. &nbsp;So, how about mer=
gering this two parts as following ?</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken. Furthermore, the DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed betw=
een trusted administrative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the =
security measures deployed between
 these domains. <br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
<br>
<br>
Hope this make sense. <br>
<br>
BR <br>
Luowen </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"25%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:25.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">h chan
<a href=3D"mailto:h.anthony.chan@huawei.com">&lt;h.anthony.chan@huawei.com&=
gt;</a></span></b><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt"><br>
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: &nbsp;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">2012/06/06 01:26</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"74%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:74.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"5%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:5.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</td>
<td width=3D"94%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:94.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&quot;dmm@=
ietf.org&quot;</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">&lt;dmm@ietf.org&gt;</a>, Peter McCann <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com">
&lt;Peter.McCann@huawei.com&gt;</a>, jouni korhonen <a href=3D"mailto:jouni=
.nospam@gmail.com">
&lt;jouni.nospam@gmail.com&gt;</a></span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" style=3D"text-align:right"><span lan=
g=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compati=
bility</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
</span>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
<td width=3D"50%" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .=
75pt .75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br=
>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Replacing REQ-4 with the following:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility<br>
The DMM solution MUST NOT break when being deployed between trusted adminis=
trative domains and SHOULD allow inter-working with the security measures d=
eployed between these domains. Existing network deployment and end hosts al=
so SHOULD NOT break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org</span></a=
><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">] On =
Behalf
 Of h chan<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:02 PM<br>
To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
An attempt to clean up the text for REQ-4:<br>
<br>
REQ-4: compatibility <br>
The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with IPv6 (e.g.=
 existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other mobility proto=
cols, and be interoperable with the network or the mobile hosts/routers tha=
t do not support the DMM enabling
 protocol so that the existing network deployments and end hosts are not br=
oken.<br>
REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is not to break existing net=
work deployments and end hosts.
<br>
OTHER related problem<br>
O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions of MIP<=
br>
Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of MIP. When in=
troducing new functions which may add to the complicity, existing solutions=
 are more vulnerable to break.<br>
<br>
H Anthony Chan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter McCann <br>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:00 AM<br>
To: jouni korhonen; h chan<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-4: compatibility<br>
<br>
Hi, Jouni,<br>
<br>
jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On May 7, 2012, at 9:04 PM, h chan wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4: compatibility<br>
&gt;&gt; The DMM solutions SHALL support existing network deployment with<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; IPv6<br>
&gt;&gt; (e.g. existing IPv6 address assignment), be compatible with other<=
br>
&gt;&gt; mobility protocols, and be interoperable with the network or the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; mobile hosts/routers that do not support the DMM enabling protocol=
 so<br>
&gt;&gt; that the existing network deployments are unaffected.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; REQ-4M (Motivation for REQ-4)<br>
&gt;&gt; Motivation: The motivation of this requirement is to be able to wo=
rk<br>
&gt;&gt; with network architectures of both hierarchical networks and flatt=
ened<br>
&gt;&gt; networks, so that the mobility management protocol possesses enoug=
h<br>
&gt;&gt; flexibility to support different networks, and so that the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; networks and hosts are not affected and do not break.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Isn't the motivation just &quot;SHALL not break existing network<br>
&gt; deployments and end hosts&quot; ?<br>
&gt; Either the network or the host may not have any idea of the solutions<=
br>
&gt; developed in DMM.<br>
<br>
I think that's a reasonable simplification. &nbsp;We need a strategy for<br=
>
backwards compatibility.<br>
<br>
-Pete<br>
<br>
&gt; - JOuni<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; OTHER related problem O-PS3: Complicated deployment with too many<=
br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of MIP Deployment is complicated with many=
<br>
&gt;&gt; variants and extensions of<br>
&gt; MIP. When introducing new functions which may add to the complicity,<b=
r>
&gt; existing solutions are more vulnerable to break.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; (The above has been drafted with contributions, inputs and discuss=
ions<br>
&gt;&gt; from various people. Additional contributions and comments are mos=
t<br>
&gt;&gt; welcome.)<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; </span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><span style=3D=
"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></a><tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">______=
_________________________________________</span></tt><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt"><br>
</span><tt>dmm mailing list</tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><tt><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a></tt><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm"><tt><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</span></tt=
></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>ZTE&nbsp;Information&nbsp;Security&nbsp;Notice:&nbsp;The&nbsp;informat=
ion&nbsp;contained&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;(and&nbsp;any&nbsp;atta=
chment&nbsp;transmitted&nbsp;herewith)&nbsp;is&nbsp;privileged&nbsp;and&nbs=
p;confidential&nbsp;and&nbsp;is&nbsp;intended&nbsp;for&nbsp;the&nbsp;exclus=
ive&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;addressee(s).&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbs=
p;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;an&nbsp;intended&nbsp;recipient,&nbsp;any&nbsp;disclosu=
re,&nbsp;reproduction,&nbsp;distribution&nbsp;or&nbsp;other&nbsp;disseminat=
ion&nbsp;or&nbsp;use&nbsp;of&nbsp;the&nbsp;information&nbsp;contained&nbsp;=
is&nbsp;strictly&nbsp;prohibited.&nbsp;&nbsp;If&nbsp;you&nbsp;have&nbsp;rec=
eived&nbsp;this&nbsp;mail&nbsp;in&nbsp;error,&nbsp;please&nbsp;delete&nbsp;=
it&nbsp;and&nbsp;notify&nbsp;us&nbsp;immediately.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>dmm mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm">https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Charlie P.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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To: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
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<co-chair mode>

Thanks Anthony. The discussion around the requirements have
stabilized quite a bit, which is good. This I-D is a good
basis & candidate for the requirement document we have in our
milestones.

I encourage folks to start looking at gaps to existing (and
deployed) technologies based on these requirements. We will
spend time on those during the WG meeting anyway.

- Jouni



On Jun 15, 2012, at 5:14 AM, h chan wrote:

> The draft has been updated with the recommended changes.
> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
>=20
> H Anthony Chan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jouni korhonen [mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:49 AM
> To: h chan
> Cc: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>=20
>=20
> Anthony,
>=20
> Thanks for the update. While the requirements start shaping up
> nicely I have few documentation related issues. First, Section 1
> does not need to repeat DMM WG charter and milestones. Second,=20
> Section 4 does not belong to this requirement document. The draft
> already has rather lengthy intro, which is more than enough as a
> background information.
>=20
> - Jouni
>=20
> On Jun 8, 2012, at 8:59 AM, h chan wrote:
>=20
>> A draft of the requirement capturing all the requirements so far =
together with the problem statements has been uploaded:
>>=20
>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-01.txt
>>=20
>> The following is an explanation of how it is structured.=20
>>=20
>> Out of the large number of problem statements, Session 4 on problem =
statement listed 5 of them as relevant problems.=20
>>=20
>> In Session 5 on requirements, the first 2 requirements address all =
the relevant problems. They distinguish dmm from the existing =
centralized deployments. So I think they are the key requirements. They =
both use "SHALL"
>>=20
>> The remaining requirements are not owing to problem statements with =
existing centralized deployments. So I suggest to use the "SHALL" very =
sparingly. Else we may not be able to call even some existing mobility =
protocols a mobility management solution lest they meet all the "SHALL" =
requirements.=20
>>=20
>> H Anthony Chan
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Charles E. Perkins
>> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 4:52 PM
>> To: Peter McCann
>> Cc: dmm@ietf.org; Behcet Sarikaya
>> Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement discussions
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hello Pete,
>>=20
>> Yes, I am fine with that revision and the new proposed text.
>>=20
>> I was more worried about the seeming suggestion that the DMM
>> requirement was to interwork with any arbitrary security
>> mechanism. But, as I mentioned, I think we are pretty close.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Charlie P.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6/7/2012 1:53 PM, Peter McCann wrote:
>>> I thought the new text from Anthony was an attempt to answer your
>>> comment, Charles.  For instance, he removed the text that said,
>>> "should not be considered the default."  Are you ok with his new
>>> proposed text?  If not, can you propose text that you would like?
>>>=20
>>> -Pete
>>>=20
>>> Charles E. Perkins wrote:
>>>> Hello folks,
>>>>=20
>>>> It seems to me that we may be perhaps arriving at a good point for =
a=20
>>>> new draft.
>>>> However, there are still some points of discussion that are perhaps=20=

>>>> worthy to be resolved (for example, in my email earlier this week).
>>>>=20
>>>> Maybe we should fire up the issue tracker...?
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Charlie P.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 6/7/2012 12:04 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Hi Jouni,
>>>>=20
>>>> 	What are the plans on DMM requirements? I see lots of mails and =
never=20
>>>> ending discussions.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Isn't it the time to get the draft out, thank Anthony for his =
hard=20
>>>> work and move on?
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Regards,
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Behcet
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 	On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 11:32 AM, h chan =
<h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Yes, the second and third sentences are not additional =
requirements,=20
>>>> but rather explanations of the requirement in the first sentence. =
Does=20
>>>> the rewrite sound better now:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>>=20
>>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire=20
>>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address.
>>>> Otherwise the support to maintain a stable home IP address or =
prefix=20
>>>> during handover may be declined.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		From: luo.wen@zte.com.cn [mailto:luo.wen@zte.com.cn]
>>>> 		Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 12:56 AM
>>>> 		To: h chan
>>>> 		Cc: dmm@ietf.org; dmm-bounces@ietf.org; jouni korhonen; =
Peter McCann
>>>> 		Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Re: [DMM] draft requirement =
REQ-2:
>>>> Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Hi Anthony:
>>>>=20
>>>> 		The last part of the sentence (i.e. but the need to =
maintain a=20
>>>> stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD NOT be taken as
>>>> default.) seems a littel strange to me.  REQ-2 just describes under=20=

>>>> what circumstances the transparency is needed (i.e. when the mobile=20=

>>>> hosts or entire mobile networks change their point of attachment to=20=

>>>> the Internet, for the application flows that cannot cope with a =
change=20
>>>> of IP address), that means automatically, otherwise the =
transparency=20
>>>> is not needed. So why bother to write the last part of the =
sentence=A3=BF
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Besides, when mobile node attaches to its home network, =
it will=20
>>>> obviously get a home IP address/prefix from its home network. The =
IP=20
>>>> address/prefix can be considered as stable IP, as long as the =
mobile=20
>>>> does not change its point of attachment. The last part of the =
sentence=20
>>>> will just exclude this scenario.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		If I make any mistake, please correct me.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Thanks
>>>> 		Luowen
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
>>>> =B7=A2 =BC=FE=C8=CB:  dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>=20
>>>> 2012/06/06 01:12
>>>>=20
>>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB
>>>>=20
>>>> "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>, Peter McCann =
<Peter.McCann@huawei.com>,=20
>>>> jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
>>>>=20
>>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2
>>>>=20
>>>> Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Revise as follows:
>>>>=20
>>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire=20
>>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,=20=

>>>> but the need to maintain a stable home IP address or prefix SHOULD =
NOT=20
>>>> be taken as default.
>>>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>>>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient =
use of=20
>>>> network resources and more efficient routing by not maintaining a=20=

>>>> stable IP home IP address when there is no such need.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: =
dmm-bounces@ietf.org
>>>> [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of h chan 		Sent: =
Wednesday, May
>>>> 23, 2012 7:51 PM 		To: Peter McCann; jouni korhonen 		=
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>>> 		Subject: Re: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency =
to Upper=20
>>>> Layers
>>>>=20
>>>> 		An attempt to clean up the text so far:
>>>>=20
>>>> 		REQ-2: Transparency to Upper Layers
>>>> 		The DMM solutions SHALL provide transparency above the =
IP layer when=20
>>>> needed. Such transparency is needed, when the mobile hosts or =
entire=20
>>>> mobile networks change their point of attachment to the Internet, =
for=20
>>>> the application flows that cannot cope with a change of IP address,=20=

>>>> but SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2)
>>>> 		The goal of this requirement is to enable more efficient =
use of=20
>>>> network resources and more efficient routing when mobility support =
is=20
>>>> implemented by not invoking it for the application flows and nodes=20=

>>>> that do not need it.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		RELEVANT problem: 		PS5: Wasting resources =
to support mobile nodes not
>>>> needing mobility support 		IP mobility support is not =
always required.
>>>> For example, some applications do not need a stable IP address =
during=20
>>>> handover, i.e. IP session continuity. Sometimes, the entire=20
>>>> application session runs while the terminal does not change the =
point of attachment.
>>>> In these situations that do not require IP mobility support, =
network=20
>>>> resources are wasted when including additional info to the mobility=20=

>>>> context to support the change the point of attachment. Network=20
>>>> resources are also wasted when the via routes are set up for many =
MNs that do not
>>>> require IP mobility support. 		OTHER related problem 		=
O-PS1: Mobility
>>>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		=
While mobility
>>>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the hosts may =
then=20
>>>> communicate directly so that the mobility support is no longer =
needed.
>>>> Taking the need of mobility support as the default behavior will =
waste
>>>> network resources. 		O-PS2: Lack of user-centricity 		=
Centralized
>>>> deployment compared with distributed mobility management may be =
less=20
>>>> capable to support user-centricity. Example in the lack of=20
>>>> user-centricity is to provide mobility support to all mobile nodes =
by=20
>>>> default regardless of whether the user needs it or not.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		H Anthony Chan
>>>>=20
>>>> 		-----Original Message----- 		From: Peter =
McCann 		Sent: Friday, May
>>>> 18, 2012 9:35 AM 		To: jouni korhonen; h chan 		=
Cc: dmm@ietf.org
>>>> 		Subject: RE: [DMM] draft requirement REQ-2: Transparency =
to Upper=20
>>>> Layers
>>>>=20
>>>> 		Hi, Jouni,
>>>>=20
>>>> 		jouni korhonen wrote: 		> 		> Few =
comments/questions here: 		> 		> On
>>>> May 7, 2012, at 8:58 PM, h chan wrote: 		> 		=
>> REQ-2: Transparency to
>>>> Upper Layers 		>> The DMM solutions SHALL enable =
transparency above the
>>>> IP layer. Such 		>> transparency is needed for the =
application flows
>>>> that cannot cope with 		>> a change of IP address and =
when mobile hosts
>>>> or entire mobile networks 		>> change their point of =
attachment to the
>>>> Internet, but SHOULD NOT be 		>> taken as the default =
behavior. 		> 		>
>>>> "SHALL enable" but "SHOULD NOT be taken as the default behavior" =
seem
>>>> 		> to conflict. So, what is really meant here? Does this =
mean something
>>>> 		> like "MUST implement, SHOULD use" type of solution? Or =
can one leave
>>>> 		> transparency completely away if the applications/hosts =
just don't
>>>> care 		> whether IP changes or not?
>>>>=20
>>>> 		I think the latter.  If the applications don't care =
about
>>>> transparency, 		then we don't need to pay for it with =
state and
>>>> signaling in the network.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		However, we know that some applications do care, so it =
SHALL be
>>>> possible 		to provide it.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		>> REQ-2M (Motivation for REQ-2) 		>> The =
goal of this requirement is
>>>> to 		>> enable more efficient use of network =
resources and more
>>>> efficient 		>> routing by not invoking mobility support when =
there is no
>>>> such need. 		> 		> Does this still mean =
the mobility support must be
>>>> implement even if it 		> is not used?
>>>>=20
>>>> 		We need some strategy for keeping an IP address through =
some amount of
>>>> 		mobility.  However, we needn't optimize the network for =
this case as
>>>> it 		might be rather uncommon to keep an address for =
a very long period
>>>> of 		time.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		>> RELEVANT problem: 		>> PS5: Wasting =
resources to support mobile
>>>> nodes not needing mobility 		>> support IP mobility =
support is not
>>>> always required. For example, 		>> some 		=
>> applications do not need a
>>>> stable IP address during handover, i.e. IP 		>> =
session continuity.
>>>> Sometimes, the entire application session runs 		>> while =
the terminal
>>>> does not change the point of attachment. In these 		>> =
situations that
>>>> do not require IP mobility support, network resources 		=
>> are wasted
>>>> when mobility context is set up. Network resources are also 		=
>> wasted
>>>> when the via routes are set up for many MNs that do not require 		=
>> IP
>>>> mobility support. 		>> 		>> OTHER related problem =
		>> O-PS1: Mobility
>>>> signaling overhead with peer-to-peer communication 		=
>> While mobility
>>>> management enables a mobile host to be reachable, the 		=
>> hosts may
>>>> then communicate directly so that the mobility support is no 		=
>> longer
>>>> needed. Taking the need of mobility support as the default 		=
>> behavior
>>>> will waste network resources. 		>> O-PS2: Lack of =
user-centricity 		>>
>>>> Centralized deployment compared with distributed mobility =
management
>>>> 		>> may be less capable to support user-centricity. =
Example in the lack
>>>> of 		>> user-centricity is to provide mobility =
support to all mobile
>>>> nodes by 		>> default regardless of whether the user needs =
it or not.
>>>> 		> 		> I have issues to parse O-PS2.. the =
motivation makes sense though
>>>> but 		> the title "lack of user-centricity" is =
somewhat confusing.. what
>>>> does 		> forced/always-on mobility support has to do =
with user
>>>> centricity?
>>>>=20
>>>> 		I think Anthony just meant that we should tailor the =
mobility
>>>> management 		to the needs of the user.  I wouldn't =
mind seeing this
>>>> explanatory text 		re-worded.
>>>>=20
>>>> 		-Pete
>>>>=20
>>>> 		> 		> - Jouni 		> 		=
> 		>> 		>> (The above has been drafted with
>>>> contributions, inputs and discussions 		>> from various =
people.
>>>> Additional contributions and comments are most 		>> =
welcome.) 		>> 		>>
>>>> H Anthony Chan 		>> 		>> 		>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ 		>> dmm =
mailing list
>>>> 		>> dmm@ietf.org 		>> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm 		> 		=
>
>>>> _______________________________________________ 		> dmm =
mailing list 		>
>>>> dmm@ietf.org 		> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		_______________________________________________ 		=
dmm mailing list
>>>> 		dmm@ietf.org 		=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>> 		_______________________________________________ 		=
dmm mailing list
>>>> 		dmm@ietf.org 		=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 		_______________________________________________
>>>> 		dmm mailing list
>>>> 		dmm@ietf.org
>>>> 		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 	_______________________________________________
>>>> 	dmm mailing list
>>>> 	dmm@ietf.org
>>>> 	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Regards,
>> Charlie P.
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>=20


From jouni.nospam@gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 01:52:18 2012
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Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Folks,

We have a good start with the requirements document in 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the 
charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
ahead purposely so that we have one official document to 
work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
Vancouver.

This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting

	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2012-06-14

as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.

- Jouni & Julien

From jouni.nospam@gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 13:56:42 2012
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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<as a WG contributor>

I favor adopting this document.

- Jouni


On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> We have a good start with the requirements document in 
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the 
> charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> ahead purposely so that we have one official document to 
> work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> Vancouver.
> 
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> 
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
> 
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> 
> - Jouni & Julien


From amuhanna@awardsolutions.com  Mon Jun 25 15:29:26 2012
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From: Ahmad Muhanna <amuhanna@awardsolutions.com>
To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Hello Jouni, Anthony and All,

I have read the draft and I support adopting it as a WG document.=20

However, I have the following comment. It is not necessary to address the c=
omment now but I believe it needs to be addressed at one point.

The draft under section 1. "Introduction" says:
"
   The key idea is that dynamic mobility management relaxes
   some constraints while also repositioning mobility anchors; it avoids
   the establishment of non optimal tunnels between two topologically
   distant anchors.
"

My question: Is NOT true that the above key idea can be achieved by the pro=
per choice of deployment and policy?

If the answer is yes: Then, I assume that we are not expecting any new prot=
ocol but some recommendations on to how to achieve the above.

Thanks for all the good work and effort!

Best Regards,
Ahmad


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of jouni=
 korhonen
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:56 PM
To: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02


<as a WG contributor>

I favor adopting this document.

- Jouni


On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:

> Folks,
>=20
> We have a good start with the requirements document in
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding=20
> the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we=20
> have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to=20
> face meeting in Vancouver.
>=20
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>=20
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
>=20
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you=20
> opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the=20
> mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>=20
> - Jouni & Julien

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From karagian@cs.utwente.nl  Tue Jun 26 02:03:02 2012
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Hi all,

I am in favour of adopting this document as a DMM WG document!

Best regards,
Georgios

>=20
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:
>=20
> > Folks,
> >
> > We have a good start with the requirements document in
> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> > and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding
> > the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we
> > have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to
> > face meeting in Vancouver.
> >
> > This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> >
> > 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> > 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> > 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> > 	Pages           : 16
> > 	Date            : 2012-06-14
> >
> > as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you
> > opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the
> > mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> >
> > - Jouni & Julien
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu  Tue Jun 26 07:11:23 2012
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From: Marco Liebsch <Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu>
To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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I support adopting the document as base for a WG document.

marco

>-----Original Message-----
>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>jouni korhonen
>Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52
>To: dmm@ietf.org
>Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
>Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>
>Folks,
>
>We have a good start with the requirements document in
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding the
>Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we have one
>official document to work on and discuss before the face to face meeting i=
n
>Vancouver.
>
>This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>
>	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
>	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
>	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
>	Pages           : 16
>	Date            : 2012-06-14
>
>as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you
>opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the mai=
ling
>list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>
>- Jouni & Julien
>_______________________________________________
>dmm mailing list
>dmm@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de  Tue Jun 26 08:35:26 2012
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Dear all,
I am also in favour of WG adoption of the draft since it discusses very det=
ailed motivation, problems, and requirements of DMM approach.

To the authors: I propose to take in to consideration correction of some ve=
ry minor nits as follows in the next version:

Page 6:
In Fig. 1 beside LMA/MAG for PMIP also a FA is shown with MIPv6 referenced =
- shouldn't this be then the MN directly?

[Paper-New.Perspective] is not referenced

Page 7:
mobility management functional blocks can be groups =3D> mobility managemen=
t functional blocks can be grouped

will retrieve the location information of an MN is stored. =3D> will retrie=
ve the stored location information of an MN./will retrieve the location inf=
ormation of an MN which is stored in the table.

Page 8:
deployment in Section 4 =3D> deployment in Section 3.1

Page 9:
a stable IP home IP address =3D> a stable IP home address / a stable home I=
P address

Page 10:
dmm =3D> DMM (3 times)

Page 11:
 O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
           of MIP Deployment is complicated with many variants and
           extensions of MIP.  When introducing new functions which may
           add to the complicity, existing solutions are more vulnerable
=3D>
 O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
         of MIP

         Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of
         MIP.  When introducing new functions which may add to the
         complexity, existing solutions are more vulnerable



Best regards
Dirk


Von: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von joun=
i korhonen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52
An: dmm@ietf.org
Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Betreff: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02

Folks,

We have a good start with the requirements document in
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
Vancouver.

This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting

        Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
        Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
        Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
        Pages           : 16
        Date            : 2012-06-14

as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.

- Jouni & Julien
_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun 28 17:33:52 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: Ahmad Muhanna <amuhanna@awardsolutions.com>, jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Ahmad,

Thanks for the comment.=20

To expedite the changes in the future version, let me try to plan for such =
changes now.=20

I agree with you that "repositioning mobility anchors" belongs to the solut=
ion space and does not fall into the scope of the requirements document.=20

If the following is okay, I will make this change in the future version:

The key idea is that dynamic mobility management relaxes some constraints s=
o that it may avoid the establishment of non optimal tunnels between two to=
pologically distant anchors.=20

H Anthony Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Ahmad Muhanna [mailto:amuhanna@awardsolutions.com]=20
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 5:29 PM
To: jouni korhonen; dmm@ietf.org
Cc: h chan
Subject: RE: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02

Hello Jouni, Anthony and All,

I have read the draft and I support adopting it as a WG document.=20

However, I have the following comment. It is not necessary to address the c=
omment now but I believe it needs to be addressed at one point.

The draft under section 1. "Introduction" says:
"
   The key idea is that dynamic mobility management relaxes
   some constraints while also repositioning mobility anchors; it avoids
   the establishment of non optimal tunnels between two topologically
   distant anchors.
"

My question: Is NOT true that the above key idea can be achieved by the pro=
per choice of deployment and policy?

If the answer is yes: Then, I assume that we are not expecting any new prot=
ocol but some recommendations on to how to achieve the above.

Thanks for all the good work and effort!

Best Regards,
Ahmad


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of jouni=
 korhonen
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:56 PM
To: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02


<as a WG contributor>

I favor adopting this document.

- Jouni


On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:

> Folks,
>=20
> We have a good start with the requirements document in
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding=20
> the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we=20
> have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to=20
> face meeting in Vancouver.
>=20
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>=20
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
>=20
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you=20
> opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the=20
> mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>=20
> - Jouni & Julien

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From h.anthony.chan@huawei.com  Thu Jun 28 17:35:21 2012
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From: h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
To: "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>, "jouni.nospam@gmail.com" <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
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Dirk,
Thanks for a careful proof-reading. I will make the corrections in the futu=
re version.=20

H Anthony Chan


-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dirk.=
von-Hugo@telekom.de
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:35 AM
To: jouni.nospam@gmail.com; dmm@ietf.org
Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02

Dear all,
I am also in favour of WG adoption of the draft since it discusses very det=
ailed motivation, problems, and requirements of DMM approach.

To the authors: I propose to take in to consideration correction of some ve=
ry minor nits as follows in the next version:

Page 6:
In Fig. 1 beside LMA/MAG for PMIP also a FA is shown with MIPv6 referenced =
- shouldn't this be then the MN directly?

[Paper-New.Perspective] is not referenced

Page 7:
mobility management functional blocks can be groups =3D> mobility managemen=
t functional blocks can be grouped

will retrieve the location information of an MN is stored. =3D> will retrie=
ve the stored location information of an MN./will retrieve the location inf=
ormation of an MN which is stored in the table.

Page 8:
deployment in Section 4 =3D> deployment in Section 3.1

Page 9:
a stable IP home IP address =3D> a stable IP home address / a stable home I=
P address

Page 10:
dmm =3D> DMM (3 times)

Page 11:
 O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
           of MIP Deployment is complicated with many variants and
           extensions of MIP.  When introducing new functions which may
           add to the complicity, existing solutions are more vulnerable
=3D>
 O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
         of MIP

         Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of
         MIP.  When introducing new functions which may add to the
         complexity, existing solutions are more vulnerable



Best regards
Dirk


Von: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von joun=
i korhonen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52
An: dmm@ietf.org
Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Betreff: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02

Folks,

We have a good start with the requirements document in
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
Vancouver.

This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting

        Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
        Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
        Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
        Pages           : 16
        Date            : 2012-06-14

as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.

- Jouni & Julien
_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From cjbc@it.uc3m.es  Fri Jun 29 07:25:11 2012
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From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
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Hi,

I support the adoption of the document. I think it's a good starting
point for the WG to work towards the requirements charter item.

Thanks,

Carlos

On Wed, 2012-06-20 at 11:52 +0300, jouni korhonen wrote:
> Folks,
>=20
> We have a good start with the requirements document in=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the=20
> charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> ahead purposely so that we have one official document to=20
> work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> Vancouver.
>=20
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>=20
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
>=20
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>=20
> - Jouni & Julien
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

--=20
Carlos Jes=FAs Bernardos Cano     http://www.netcoms.net
   GPG FP: D29B 0A6A 639A A561 93CA  4D55 35DC BA4D D170 4F67
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                IEEE Network Special Issue on
                  Video over Mobile Networks
 http://dl.comsoc.org/livepubs/ni/info/cfp/cfpnetwork0313.htm=20
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From telemaco.melia@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Jun 29 07:33:47 2012
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From: "MELIA, TELEMACO (TELEMACO)" <telemaco.melia@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:33:05 +0200
Thread-Topic: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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I favor adoption of the doc

telemaco

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of jouni=
 korhonen
Sent: 20 June 2012 10:52
To: dmm@ietf.org
Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02

Folks,

We have a good start with the requirements document in=20
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the=20
charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
ahead purposely so that we have one official document to=20
work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
Vancouver.

This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting

	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2012-06-14

as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.

- Jouni & Julien
_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

From suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com  Fri Jun 29 07:36:46 2012
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Hi chairs,

On 06/20/2012 04:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> We have a good start with the requirements document in 
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the 
> charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> ahead purposely so that we have one official document to 
> work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> Vancouver.
> 
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> 
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
> 
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.

The draft looks like a reasonable starting point. I in favor of adopting.

Thanks
Suresh


From carlw@mcsr-labs.org  Fri Jun 29 07:47:14 2012
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I support to adopt the draft as it represents a good starting point and
basis of our requirement work.

Carl

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>jouni korhonen
>Sent: 20 June 2012 10:52
>To: dmm@ietf.org
>Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
>Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>
>Folks,
>
>We have a good start with the requirements document in
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
>charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
>ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
>work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
>Vancouver.
>
>This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>
>	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
>	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
>	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
>	Pages           : 16
>	Date            : 2012-06-14
>
>as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
>you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
>in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>
>- Jouni & Julien
>_______________________________________________
>dmm mailing list
>dmm@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>_______________________________________________
>dmm mailing list
>dmm@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>



From JuanCarlos.Zuniga@InterDigital.com  Fri Jun 29 08:47:55 2012
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From: "Zuniga, Juan Carlos" <JuanCarlos.Zuniga@InterDigital.com>
To: "jouni korhonen" <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, <dmm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
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Hi Jouni, all,

I think the document is in good enough shape and I support adopting it.

Regards,

Juan Carlos=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> jouni korhonen
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:52 AM
> To: dmm@ietf.org
> Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>=20
> Folks,
>=20
> We have a good start with the requirements document in
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
> charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
> work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> Vancouver.
>=20
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>=20
> 	Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility
management
> 	Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> 	Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> 	Pages           : 16
> 	Date            : 2012-06-14
>=20
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>=20
> - Jouni & Julien
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

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=C1=CBDSaD
=D4=DA 2012-6-27 =C9=CF=CE=E73:00=A3=AC <dmm-request@ietf.org>=D0=B4=B5=C0=
=A3=BA

> If you have received this digest without all the individual message
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>      (jouni korhonen)
>   2. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>      (Ahmad Muhanna)
>   3. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>      (karagian@cs.utwente.nl)
>   4. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>      (Marco Liebsch)
>   5. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>      (Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de)
>
>
> ---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------
> From: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>
> To: dmm@ietf.org
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:56:16 +0300
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>
> <as a WG contributor>
>
> I favor adopting this document.
>
> - Jouni
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > We have a good start with the requirements document in
> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> > and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
> > charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> > ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
> > work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> > Vancouver.
> >
> > This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> >
> >       Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> >       Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> >       Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> >       Pages           : 16
> >       Date            : 2012-06-14
> >
> > as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> > you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> > in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> >
> > - Jouni & Julien
>
>
>
>
> ---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------
> From: Ahmad Muhanna <amuhanna@awardsolutions.com>
> To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org=
>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:29:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> Hello Jouni, Anthony and All,
>
> I have read the draft and I support adopting it as a WG document.
>
> However, I have the following comment. It is not necessary to address the
> comment now but I believe it needs to be addressed at one point.
>
> The draft under section 1. "Introduction" says:
> "
>   The key idea is that dynamic mobility management relaxes
>   some constraints while also repositioning mobility anchors; it avoids
>   the establishment of non optimal tunnels between two topologically
>   distant anchors.
> "
>
> My question: Is NOT true that the above key idea can be achieved by the
> proper choice of deployment and policy?
>
> If the answer is yes: Then, I assume that we are not expecting any new
> protocol but some recommendations on to how to achieve the above.
>
> Thanks for all the good work and effort!
>
> Best Regards,
> Ahmad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> jouni korhonen
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: dmm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>
>
> <as a WG contributor>
>
> I favor adopting this document.
>
> - Jouni
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > We have a good start with the requirements document in
> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> > and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding
> > the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we
> > have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to
> > face meeting in Vancouver.
> >
> > This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> >
> >       Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> >       Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> >       Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> >       Pages           : 16
> >       Date            : 2012-06-14
> >
> > as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you
> > opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the
> > mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> >
> > - Jouni & Julien
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
> ---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------
> From: <karagian@cs.utwente.nl>
> To: <dmm@ietf.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:02:59 +0000
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> Hi all,
>
> I am in favour of adopting this document as a DMM WG document!
>
> Best regards,
> Georgios
>
> >
> > On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:
> >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > We have a good start with the requirements document in
> > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> > > and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regardin=
g
> > > the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we
> > > have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to
> > > face meeting in Vancouver.
> > >
> > > This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> > >
> > >     Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> > >     Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> > >     Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> > >     Pages           : 16
> > >     Date            : 2012-06-14
> > >
> > > as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you
> > > opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in th=
e
> > > mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> > >
> > > - Jouni & Julien
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dmm mailing list
> > dmm@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
> ---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------
> From: Marco Liebsch <Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu>
> To: jouni korhonen <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, "dmm@ietf.org" <dmm@ietf.org=
>
> Cc: "dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:12:36 +0000
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> I support adopting the document as base for a WG document.
>
> marco
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> >jouni korhonen
> >Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52
> >To: dmm@ietf.org
> >Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> >Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >We have a good start with the requirements document in
> >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> >and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding t=
he
> >Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we have one
> >official document to work on and discuss before the face to face meeting
> in
> >Vancouver.
> >
> >This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
> >
> >       Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
> >       Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
> >       Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
> >       Pages           : 16
> >       Date            : 2012-06-14
> >
> >as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you
> >opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the
> mailing
> >list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
> >
> >- Jouni & Julien
> >_______________________________________________
> >dmm mailing list
> >dmm@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
>
> ---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------
> From: <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
> To: <jouni.nospam@gmail.com>, <dmm@ietf.org>
> Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:35:21 +0200
> Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> Dear all,
> I am also in favour of WG adoption of the draft since it discusses very
> detailed motivation, problems, and requirements of DMM approach.
>
> To the authors: I propose to take in to consideration correction of some
> very minor nits as follows in the next version:
>
> Page 6:
> In Fig. 1 beside LMA/MAG for PMIP also a FA is shown with MIPv6 reference=
d
> - shouldn't this be then the MN directly?
>
> [Paper-New.Perspective] is not referenced
>
> Page 7:
> mobility management functional blocks can be groups =3D> mobility managem=
ent
> functional blocks can be grouped
>
> will retrieve the location information of an MN is stored. =3D> will
> retrieve the stored location information of an MN./will retrieve the
> location information of an MN which is stored in the table.
>
> Page 8:
> deployment in Section 4 =3D> deployment in Section 3.1
>
> Page 9:
> a stable IP home IP address =3D> a stable IP home address / a stable home=
 IP
> address
>
> Page 10:
> dmm =3D> DMM (3 times)
>
> Page 11:
>  O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
>           of MIP Deployment is complicated with many variants and
>           extensions of MIP.  When introducing new functions which may
>           add to the complicity, existing solutions are more vulnerable
> =3D>
>  O-PS2:  Complicated deployment with too many variants and extensions
>         of MIP
>
>         Deployment is complicated with many variants and extensions of
>         MIP.  When introducing new functions which may add to the
>         complexity, existing solutions are more vulnerable
>
>
>
> Best regards
> Dirk
>
>
> Von: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von
> jouni korhonen
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52
> An: dmm@ietf.org
> Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org
> Betreff: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
>
> Folks,
>
> We have a good start with the requirements document in
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02
> and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the
> charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit
> ahead purposely so that we have one official document to
> work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in
> Vancouver.
>
> This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting
>
>        Title           : Requirements of distributed mobility management
>        Author(s)       : H Anthony Chan
>        Filename        : draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02.txt
>        Pages           : 16
>        Date            : 2012-06-14
>
> as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state
> you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)
> in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.
>
> - Jouni & Julien
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
>
>

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of dmm digest...&quot;<br>
<br>Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; 1. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(jouni korhonen)<br>
 &nbsp; 2. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(Ahmad Muhanna)<br>
 &nbsp; 3. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(<a href=3D"mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl">karagian@cs=
.utwente.nl</a>)<br>
 &nbsp; 4. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(Marco Liebsch)<br>
 &nbsp; 5. Re: WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;(<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de">Dirk.von-=
Hugo@telekom.de</a>)<br>
<br><br>---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------<br>From:&nbsp;=
jouni korhonen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">jouni.nospam@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</=
a><br>Cc:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nbsp;Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:56:16 +0300<br>
Subject:&nbsp;Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-0=
2<br><br>
&lt;as a WG contributor&gt;<br>
<br>
I favor adopting this document.<br>
<br>
- Jouni<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Folks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We have a good start with the requirements document in<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02" =
target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02=
</a><br>
&gt; and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the<br>
&gt; charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit<br>
&gt; ahead purposely so that we have one official document to<br>
&gt; work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in<br>
&gt; Vancouver.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Requir=
ements of distributed mobility management<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : H Anthony Chan<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-chan-=
dmm-requirements-02.txt<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 16<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: 2=
012-06-14<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state<br>
&gt; you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)<br=
>
&gt; in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Jouni &amp; Julien<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------<br>From:&nbsp;=
Ahmad Muhanna &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amuhanna@awardsolutions.com">amuhanna@a=
wardsolutions.com</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;jouni korhonen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jouni.nospam@gmail.com">jouni.nospam@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.or=
g">dmm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nbsp;Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:29:22 +0000<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re=
: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>Hello Jouni=
, Anthony and All,<br>
<br>
I have read the draft and I support adopting it as a WG document.<br>
<br>
However, I have the following comment. It is not necessary to address the c=
omment now but I believe it needs to be addressed at one point.<br>
<br>
The draft under section 1. &quot;Introduction&quot; says:<br>
&quot;<br>
 &nbsp; The key idea is that dynamic mobility management relaxes<br>
 &nbsp; some constraints while also repositioning mobility anchors; it avoi=
ds<br>
 &nbsp; the establishment of non optimal tunnels between two topologically<=
br>
 &nbsp; distant anchors.<br>
&quot;<br>
<br>
My question: Is NOT true that the above key idea can be achieved by the pro=
per choice of deployment and policy?<br>
<br>
If the answer is yes: Then, I assume that we are not expecting any new prot=
ocol but some recommendations on to how to achieve the above.<br>
<br>
Thanks for all the good work and effort!<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Ahmad<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Be=
half Of jouni korhonen<br>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:56 PM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
<br>
<br>
&lt;as a WG contributor&gt;<br>
<br>
I favor adopting this document.<br>
<br>
- Jouni<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Folks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We have a good start with the requirements document in<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02" =
target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02=
</a><br>
&gt; and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding=
<br>
&gt; the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we<br>
&gt; have one official document to work on and discuss before the face to<b=
r>
&gt; face meeting in Vancouver.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Requir=
ements of distributed mobility management<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : H Anthony Chan<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-chan-=
dmm-requirements-02.txt<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 16<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: 2=
012-06-14<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you<=
br>
&gt; opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the=
<br>
&gt; mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Jouni &amp; Julien<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------<br>From:&nbsp;=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:karagian@cs.utwente.nl">karagian@cs.utwente.nl</a>&gt=
;<br>To:&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>C=
c:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nbsp;Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:02:59 +0000<br>
Subject:&nbsp;Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-0=
2<br>Hi all,<br>
<br>
I am in favour of adopting this document as a DMM WG document!<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Georgios<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Jun 20, 2012, at 11:52 AM, jouni korhonen wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Folks,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; We have a good start with the requirements document in<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements=
-02" target=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requiremen=
ts-02</a><br>
&gt; &gt; and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter rega=
rding<br>
&gt; &gt; the Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that w=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; have one official document to work on and discuss before the face=
 to<br>
&gt; &gt; face meeting in Vancouver.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Requirem=
ents of distributed mobility management<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : H Anthony Chan<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-chan-dm=
m-requirements-02.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 16<br>
&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: 201=
2-06-14<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state=
 you<br>
&gt; &gt; opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) i=
n the<br>
&gt; &gt; mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; - Jouni &amp; Julien<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; dmm mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------<br>From:&nbsp;=
Marco Liebsch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Marco.Liebsch@neclab.eu">Marco.Liebsch@=
neclab.eu</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;jouni korhonen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jouni.no=
spam@gmail.com">jouni.nospam@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm=
@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc:&nbsp;&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">dmm-chairs@tool=
s.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">dmm-c=
hairs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Date:&nbsp;Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:12:36 +0000<=
br>Subject:&nbsp;Re: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirement=
s-02<br>
I support adopting the document as base for a WG document.<br>
<br>
marco<br>
<br>
&gt;-----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;From: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] O=
n Behalf Of<br>
&gt;jouni korhonen<br>
&gt;Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52<br>
&gt;To: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.=
org</a><br>
&gt;Subject: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Folks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;We have a good start with the requirements document in<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<=
/a><br>
&gt;and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the charter regarding =
the<br>
&gt;Solution Requirements. We are a bit ahead purposely so that we have one=
<br>
&gt;official document to work on and discuss before the face to face meetin=
g in<br>
&gt;Vancouver.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Requir=
ements of distributed mobility management<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : H Anthony Chan<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-chan-=
dmm-requirements-02.txt<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 16<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: 2=
012-06-14<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state you<b=
r>
&gt;opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why) in the =
mailing<br>
&gt;list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;- Jouni &amp; Julien<br>
&gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;dmm mailing list<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- =D2=D1=D7=AA=B7=A2=D3=CA=BC=FE ----------<br>From:&nbsp;=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a=
>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jouni.nospam@gmail.com">jouni.nospa=
m@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
Cc:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">dmm-chairs@tools.ietf=
.org</a><br>Date:&nbsp;Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:35:21 +0200<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re:=
 [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>Dear all,<br=
>
I am also in favour of WG adoption of the draft since it discusses very det=
ailed motivation, problems, and requirements of DMM approach.<br>
<br>
To the authors: I propose to take in to consideration correction of some ve=
ry minor nits as follows in the next version:<br>
<br>
Page 6:<br>
In Fig. 1 beside LMA/MAG for PMIP also a FA is shown with MIPv6 referenced =
- shouldn&#39;t this be then the MN directly?<br>
<br>
[Paper-New.Perspective] is not referenced<br>
<br>
Page 7:<br>
mobility management functional blocks can be groups =3D&gt; mobility manage=
ment functional blocks can be grouped<br>
<br>
will retrieve the location information of an MN is stored. =3D&gt; will ret=
rieve the stored location information of an MN./will retrieve the location =
information of an MN which is stored in the table.<br>
<br>
Page 8:<br>
deployment in Section 4 =3D&gt; deployment in Section 3.1<br>
<br>
Page 9:<br>
a stable IP home IP address =3D&gt; a stable IP home address / a stable hom=
e IP address<br>
<br>
Page 10:<br>
dmm =3D&gt; DMM (3 times)<br>
<br>
Page 11:<br>
&nbsp;O-PS2: &nbsp;Complicated deployment with too many variants and extens=
ions<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of MIP Deployment is complicated with m=
any variants and<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; extensions of MIP. &nbsp;When introduci=
ng new functions which may<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; add to the complicity, existing solutio=
ns are more vulnerable<br>
=3D&gt;<br>
&nbsp;O-PS2: &nbsp;Complicated deployment with too many variants and extens=
ions<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of MIP<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Deployment is complicated with many variants a=
nd extensions of<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; MIP. &nbsp;When introducing new functions whic=
h may add to the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; complexity, existing solutions are more vulner=
able<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
<br>
Von: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org">dmm-bounces@ietf.org</a>] Im Auf=
trag von jouni korhonen<br>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Juni 2012 10:52<br>
An: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org<=
/a><br>
Betreff: [DMM] WG Call for adoption: draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02<br>
<br>
Folks,<br>
<br>
We have a good start with the requirements document in<br>
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chan-dmm-requirements-02</a><=
br>
and the chairs think it is time to catch up with the<br>
charter regarding the Solution Requirements. We are a bit<br>
ahead purposely so that we have one official document to<br>
work on and discuss before the face to face meeting in<br>
Vancouver.<br>
<br>
This email starts a 2-week consensus call on adopting<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Title &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : Requ=
irements of distributed mobility management<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Author(s) &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : H Anthony Chan=
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Filename &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;: draft-cha=
n-dmm-requirements-02.txt<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Pages &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; : 16<b=
r>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Date &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;:=
 2012-06-14<br>
<br>
as a DMM WG document. Please, read the current revision and state<br>
you opinion either for or against adoption (and with reasoning why)<br>
in the mailing list. The call for adoption ends 4th July 2012.<br>
<br>
- Jouni &amp; Julien<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><br>
<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
dmm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dmm@ietf.org">dmm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>

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