From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Thu Apr 06 09:12:11 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRUHT-0003Z5-Hg; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:12:11 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRUHS-0003Yt-Jp for dmsp@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:12:10 -0400 Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.153]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRUHS-0007vc-7I for dmsp@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:12:10 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e35.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k36DC9V8028257 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:12:09 -0400 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.168]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k36DFLlo177670 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:15:22 -0600 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k36DC8YB012756 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:12:08 -0600 Received: from d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.145]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k36DC8N2012750; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:12:08 -0600 To: jon.peterson@neustar.biz, fluffy@cisco.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF85 November 04, 2005 Message-ID: From: Chris Cross Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:11:28 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM119/03/M/IBM(Release 6.53HF654 | July 22, 2005) at 04/06/2006 07:15:07 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: [Dmsp] DMSP BOF X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1466981459==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org --===============1466981459== Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="0__=0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF28f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF2" Content-Disposition: inline --0__=0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF28f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jon and Cullen, It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again= for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group. After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at= the next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or = apps is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the fo= lks participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know = how we can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting. thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727= --0__=0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF28f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF2 Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jon and Cullen,
It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again= for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group.

After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at= the next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if ra= i or apps is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus am= ong the folks participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Pleas= e let us know how we can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the= next meeting.

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727
= --0__=0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF28f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBD4DFDD9DF2-- --===============1466981459== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1466981459==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 10 08:15:51 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSvJ8-0007sr-W1; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:15:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSpRR-0003Aa-Fy for dmsp@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:00:01 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSpRP-0000aK-3J for dmsp@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:00:01 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Apr 2006 22:59:59 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,105,1144047600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="1793296441:sNHT48723820" Received: from vtg-um-e2k4.sj21ad.cisco.com (vtg-um-e2k4.cisco.com [171.70.93.57]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3A5xv1j025104; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 171.68.225.134 ([171.68.225.134]) by vtg-um-e2k4.sj21ad.cisco.com ([171.70.93.57]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:59:57 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.3.060209 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 22:59:59 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: Chris Cross , Jon Peterson Message-ID: Thread-Topic: DMSP BOF Thread-Index: AcZcY//QPmGQnMhXEdqaBAARJEEJ/A== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:15:49 -0400 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0648244502==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0648244502== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3227468400_16966238" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3227468400_16966238 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Chris, To be honest, I'm did not see the level of interest that something would normally have to do a BOF. This was just my reaction watching the room and I would have to much more formally go and find out what others thought but I really don't want to get your hopes up on this. However, if you want to know more about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague wrote a good draft about what it takes. Have a read of draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also quite sure that Nathaniel knows more than he would ever want to know about doing a BOF :-) Cullen On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross" wrote: > Hi Jon and Cullen, > It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again for > the opportunity to present DMSP to the group. > > After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the > next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps is > the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks > participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know how we > can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting. > > thanks, > chris > > > Chris Cross > Multimodal Browser Architect > _________________________ > IBM Boca Raton > xcross@us.ibm.com > voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 > mobile 561.317.0700 > fax 501.641.6727 > --B_3227468400_16966238 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: DMSP BOF
Hi Chris,

To be honest, I'm did not see the level of interest that something would no= rmally have to do a BOF. This was just my reaction watching the room and I w= ould have to much more formally go and find out what others thought but I re= ally don't want to get your hopes up on this. However, if you want to know m= ore about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague wrote a good draft about = what it takes. Have a read of draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also = quite sure that Nathaniel knows more than he would ever want to know about d= oing a BOF :-)

Cullen


On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross" <xcross@us.ibm.com> wrote:=

Hi Jon and Cullen,
It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again for= the opportunity to present DMSP to the group.

After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the= next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps= is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks = participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know how w= e can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting.

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102  t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727


 --B_3227468400_16966238-- --===============0648244502== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============0648244502==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 11 17:23:22 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQKY-0000ir-3X; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:23:22 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQKW-0000im-FT for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:23:20 -0400 Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.145]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQKV-0003tL-I5 for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:23:20 -0400 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3BLN99i018869 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:23:09 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k3BLMxXn240674 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:22:59 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k3BLMwJ7020908 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:22:59 -0400 Received: from d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3BLMwSL020879; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:22:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: Cullen Jennings MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.1 January 17, 2006 From: Nathaniel S Borenstein Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:22:55 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/11/2006 04:22:57 PM, Serialize complete at 04/11/2006 04:22:57 PM X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4bbdb236f788407ff689fcae8109fe34 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org, Jon Peterson Subject: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0708078215==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0708078215== Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_related 0073CAD08525714D_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_related 0073CAD08525714D_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0073CAD08525714D_=" --=_alternative 0073CAD08525714D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" My sense is that there probably is enough interest for a BOF, but that the interested parties were underrepresented in the area meeting. There might actually be more interest in the app area, I'm not sure. Would it help if we came up with a list of parties who say they are interested in attending a BOF? Perhaps that would simultaneously validate the interest level and give us more of an indication whether it really belongs in app or rai? Does that sound like a reasonable next step? -- Nathaniel Cullen Jennings 04/10/2006 01:59 AM To Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS, Jon Peterson cc , Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS Subject Re: DMSP BOF Hi Chris, To be honest, I'm did not see the level of interest that something would normally have to do a BOF. This was just my reaction watching the room and I would have to much more formally go and find out what others thought but I really don't want to get your hopes up on this. However, if you want to know more about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague wrote a good draft about what it takes. Have a read of draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also quite sure that Nathaniel knows more than he would ever want to know about doing a BOF :-) Cullen On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross" wrote: Hi Jon and Cullen, It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group. After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know how we can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting. thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 --=_alternative 0073CAD08525714D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
My sense is that there probably is enough interest for a BOF, but that the interested parties were underrepresented in the area meeting.  There might actually be more interest in the app area, I'm not sure.  Would it help if we came up with a list of parties who say they are interested in attending a BOF?  Perhaps that would simultaneously validate the interest level and give us more of an indication whether it really belongs in app or rai?  Does that sound like a reasonable next step?  -- Nathaniel


Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>

04/10/2006 01:59 AM

To
Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS, Jon Peterson <jon.peterson@neustar.biz>
cc
<dmsp@ietf.org>, Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS
Subject
Re: DMSP BOF






Hi Chris,

To be honest, I'm did not see the level of interest that something would normally have to do a BOF. This was just my reaction watching the room and I would have to much more formally go and find out what others thought but I really don't want to get your hopes up on this. However, if you want to know more about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague wrote a good draft about what it takes. Have a read of draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also quite sure that Nathaniel knows more than he would ever want to know about doing a BOF :-)

Cullen


On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross" <xcross@us.ibm.com> wrote:
Hi Jon and Cullen,
It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group.

After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know how we can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting.

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102  t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727

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Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQeQ-00039A-7V; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:43:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQeO-00038j-VL for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:43:52 -0400 Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQeK-00057L-CF for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:43:52 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id k3BM0CYQ015019 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm66.ds.mot.com (de01exm66.am.mot.com [10.176.8.17]) by il06exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k3BM0cX4027882 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:00:38 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF Thread-Index: AcZdri2CujOx/wfTSpmCqQmVKiHrJAAAIcfg From: "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" To: "Nathaniel S Borenstein" , "Cullen Jennings" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-White-List-Member: TRUE X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: c343632e7d969f32683dd165d9d1aa55 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org, Jon Peterson X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0874852301==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0874852301== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C65DB1.0332E468" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65DB1.0332E468 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C65DB1.0332E468" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C65DB1.0332E468 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This was true for us. We'd definately send a representative or two to a DMSP WG. We'd almost certainly send one to a BoF to help organize a DMSP WG. But we couldn't justify sending someone to listen to a short announcement of a possible DMSP BoF. DMSP may be drawing on folks not yet affiliated with the IETF. =20 Jim =20 -------------------------------------------- Jim Ferrans Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff Pervasive Platforms and Architectures Lab Applications Research Motorola Labs 1295 E. Algonquin Road Schaumburg, Illinois 60196-1065 USA =20 847.576.1379 (work) =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Nathaniel S Borenstein [mailto:nborenst@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:23 PM To: Cullen Jennings Cc: dmsp@ietf.org; Jon Peterson Subject: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF My sense is that there probably is enough interest for a BOF, but that the interested parties were underrepresented in the area meeting. There might actually be more interest in the app area, I'm not sure. Would it help if we came up with a list of parties who say they are interested in attending a BOF? Perhaps that would simultaneously validate the interest level and give us more of an indication whether it really belongs in app or rai? Does that sound like a reasonable next step? -- Nathaniel =20 Cullen Jennings =20 04/10/2006 01:59 AM=20 To Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS, Jon Peterson =20 cc , Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS=20 Subject Re: DMSP BOF =09 Hi Chris, To be honest, I'm did not see the level of interest that something would normally have to do a BOF. This was just my reaction watching the room and I would have to much more formally go and find out what others thought but I really don't want to get your hopes up on this. However, if you want to know more about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague wrote a good draft about what it takes. Have a read of draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also quite sure that Nathaniel knows more than he would ever want to know about doing a BOF :-) Cullen On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross" wrote: Hi Jon and Cullen, It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in Dallas. Thanks again for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group. After my presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the next IETF meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps is the appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know how we can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next meeting. thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 ------_=_NextPart_002_01C65DB1.0332E468 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This was true for us.  We'd definately = send a=20 representative or two to a DMSP WG.  We'd almost certainly send one = to a=20 BoF to help organize a DMSP WG.  But we couldn't justify sending = someone to=20 listen to a short announcement of a possible DMSP BoF.  DMSP = may be=20 drawing on folks not yet affiliated with the IETF.
 
Jim
 
--------------------------------------------
Jim Ferrans
Distinguished Member of = the Technical=20 Staff

Pervasive Platforms and Architectures Lab
Applications=20 Research

Motorola = Labs

1295 E. Algonquin = Road

Schaumburg, Illinois 60196-1065
USA

 

847.576.1379=20 (work)

 
 

From: Nathaniel S Borenstein=20 [mailto:nborenst@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 = 4:23=20 PM
To: Cullen Jennings
Cc: dmsp@ietf.org; Jon=20 Peterson
Subject: [Dmsp] Re: DMSP BOF


My sense is that there = probably is=20 enough interest for a BOF, but that the interested parties were = underrepresented=20 in the area meeting.  There might actually be more interest in the = app=20 area, I'm not sure.  Would it help if we came up with a list of = parties who=20 say they are interested in attending a BOF?  Perhaps that would=20 simultaneously validate the interest level and give us more of an = indication=20 whether it really belongs in app or rai?  Does that sound like a = reasonable=20 next step?  -- Nathaniel
=20


Cullen = Jennings=20 <fluffy@cisco.com>

04/10/2006 01:59 AM =

To
Chris = Cross/West Palm=20 Beach/IBM@IBMUS, Jon Peterson=20 <jon.peterson@neustar.biz>=20
cc
<dmsp@ietf.org>,=20 Nathaniel S Borenstein/Concord/IBM@IBMUS=20
Subject
Re: DMSP=20 BOF

=





Hi Chris,

To be honest, I'm did not see the level of = interest=20 that something would normally have to do a BOF. This was just my = reaction=20 watching the room and I would have to much more formally go and find out = what=20 others thought but I really don't want to get your hopes up on this. = However, if=20 you want to know more about how to have a BOF, another IBM colleague = wrote a=20 good draft about what it takes. Have a read of=20 draft-narten-successful-bof-01.txt. I am also quite sure that Nathaniel = knows=20 more than he would ever want to know about doing a BOF=20 :-)

Cullen


On 4/6/06 6:11 AM, "Chris Cross"=20 <xcross@us.ibm.com> wrote:

Hi Jon=20 and Cullen,
It was nice to meet you at the RAI area meeting in = Dallas. Thanks=20 again for the opportunity to present DMSP to the group.

After my=20 presentation I talked to Cullen about scheduling a DMSP BOF at the next = IETF=20 meeting. He mentioned that one issue was to decide if rai or apps is the = appropriate area. I think there's a rough consensus among the folks=20 participating in DMSP that rai is the right choice. Please let us know = how we=20 can move forward in order to schedule a BOF at the next=20 meeting.

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal = Browser=20 Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca=20 Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102  t/l = 975.2102
mobile=20 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727


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--===============0874852301==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 14 10:05:05 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUOv3-0007y0-Fr; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:05:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUOv2-0007xv-Km for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:05:04 -0400 Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUOv1-0002lA-89 for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:05:04 -0400 Received: from il06exr01.mot.com (il06exr01.mot.com [129.188.137.131]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id k3EELTR9015565 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm69.ds.mot.com (de01exm69.am.mot.com [10.176.8.25]) by il06exr01.mot.com (8.13.5/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k3EELWwO012630 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:21:32 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:04:59 -0400 Message-ID: <6806C66D71ED9241BAECC0478173B71F7A87E0@de01exm69.ds.mot.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: DMSP vs EMMA thread-index: AcZfm7ykm0/YDfKPSiKTi3xazvmyvgALF46A From: "Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678" To: "GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-White-List-Member: TRUE X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 88b11fc64c1bfdb4425294ef5374ca07 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1419575148==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1419575148== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C65FCC.6B12A07A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FCC.6B12A07A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Aurelien, =20 See my response embedded below. Thanks for reading the draft and = providing your input. =20 -jre =20 ps - I've cc'd the dmsp list on my response, as there are others there = who have made similar suggestions. ________________________________ From: GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN = [mailto:aurelien.guillou@francetelecom.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:17 AM To: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678 Subject: DMSP vs EMMA Hi Jonathan,=20 I've read the specification of the EMMA at the W3C, and I wonder how we = can insert the EMMA messages in the=20 DMSP protocol. My view is that EMMA should describe the recognition = results for example from the server to the client in=20 a DSMP response MESSAGE. Is DSMP should really encapsulates EMMA = messages ? =20 JRE: Yes. EMMA messages could be carried as "extended recognition = results". See section 4.2.2.9 in the spec.=20 DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands (NOINPUT, = NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without VoiceXML browser = (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS ressources (only launch = recognition or synthesis process). Do you plan to open / enlarge the = DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =20 JRE: We intentionally designed the protocol to operate at the dialog = level, as this helps keep the protocol amenable to implementations that = involve low bandwidth, high latency networks and resource constrained = clients. That said, you aren't the first one to bring this point up = both on the mailing list and in offline discussions. If there are = additional features required by the particular multimodal use cases you = have in mind that aren't already adequately addressed by MRCP, please = share them on the dmsp list. We would like to maintain support for = dialog level control messages, but at the same time are open to = supporting other configurations as well, as long as we can keep the = message set and associated state machines simple and compact.=20 Thanks for your response,=20 Best Regards.=20 Aur=E9lien.=20 Aur=E9lien Guillou=20 France T=E9l=E9com=20 Recherche & D=E9veloppement=20 SIRP/SIS/SIT=20 Ing=E9nieur R&D=20 2, avenue Pierre Marzin=20 22307 LANNION Cedex=20 Tel : + 33 (0)2 96 05 94 26=20 Fax : + 33 (0)2 96 05 18 49=20 http://www.francetelecom.com/rd =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FCC.6B12A07A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DMSP vs EMMA
Hello Aurelien,
 
See my response embedded below.  Thanks = for reading=20 the draft and providing your input.
 
-jre
 
ps - = I've cc'd the=20 dmsp list on my response, as there are others there who have made = similar=20 suggestions.
From: GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN=20 [mailto:aurelien.guillou@francetelecom.com]
Sent: Friday, = April 14,=20 2006 4:17 AM
To: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678
Subject: = DMSP vs=20 EMMA

Hi Jonathan,

I've read the specification of the EMMA = at the W3C,=20 and I wonder how we can insert the EMMA messages in the
DMSP protocol. My view is that EMMA should = describe the=20 recognition results for example from the server to the client in =

a DSMP response MESSAGE. Is DSMP should = really=20 encapsulates EMMA messages ?  

JRE:=20 Yes.  EMMA messages could be carried as "extended recognition=20 results".  See section 4.2.2.9 in the spec. 

DSMP messages are really closed to = VoiceXML=20 events / commands (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,=85). Multimodal services can be = done without=20 VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS = ressources=20 (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you plan to open / = enlarge=20 the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML)=20 ?   

JRE: We intentionally designed the protocol to operate = at the=20 dialog level, as this helps keep the protocol amenable to = implementations that=20 involve low bandwidth, high latency networks and resource constrained=20 clients.   That said, you aren't the first one to bring this = point up=20 both on the mailing list and in offline discussions.  If there = are=20 additional features required by the particular multimodal use cases you = have in=20 mind that aren't already adequately addressed by MRCP,  please = share them=20 on the dmsp list.    We would like to maintain support = for dialog=20 level control messages, but at the same time are open to supporting = other=20 configurations as well, as long as we can keep the message set and=20 associated state machines simple and = compact. 

Thanks for your response, =
Best Regards.
Aur=E9lien.

Aur=E9lien Guillou =
France T=E9l=E9com =
Recherche & = D=E9veloppement=20
SIRP/SIS/SIT=20
Ing=E9nieur R&D =
2, avenue Pierre Marzin
22307 LANNION=20 Cedex
Tel : + = 33 (0)2 96 05=20 94 26
Fax : + 33 (0)2=20 96 05 18 49
http://www.francetelecom.com/rd


------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FCC.6B12A07A-- --===============1419575148== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1419575148==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 14 10:50:13 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUPcj-0006yo-8s; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:50:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUPcj-0006yj-1z for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:50:13 -0400 Received: from motgate4.mot.com ([144.189.100.102]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUPch-0004Cm-CP for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:50:13 -0400 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (az33exr03.mot.com [10.64.251.233]) by motgate4.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate4) with ESMTP id k3EF39Fs010021 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm66.ds.mot.com (de01exm66.am.mot.com [10.176.8.17]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k3EF6OT0016066 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:06:24 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:50:08 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Thread-Index: AcZfm7ykm0/YDfKPSiKTi3xazvmyvgALF46AAAEnsGA= From: "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" To: "Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678" , "GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-White-List-Member: TRUE X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 46ad68ada464411807db2a0edd5648ae Cc: dmsp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1805231503==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1805231503== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C65FD2.B9B3453A" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FD2.B9B3453A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aurelien: DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands = (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without VoiceXML = browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS resources (only = launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you plan to open / enlarge = the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? = =20 I believe you already can drive the Voice Browser at a conceptual level = beneath a VoiceXML dialog. One way to do this is to send the Voice = Browser a new extremely simple VoiceXML document for each = prompt-and-collect, using CMD_LOAD_SRC. The GUI Browser constructs this = document from a prompt and a speech recognition grammar (by URL or by = providing complete text). It inserts the prompt and the grammar into a = standard VoiceXML template that consists of a single
and a single = , then sends the resulting document via the CMD_LOAD_SRC. At the = start of the application, and after each speech recognition attempt, the = GUI Browser creates the next prompt-and-collect document to listen for = and sends it to the Voice Browser. This creates a bit more message = traffic though. =20 As far as DMSP is concerned, the Voice Browser doesn't even have to have = a VoiceXML interpreter. You could modify the above approach to have the = GUI Browser send the bare prompt and speech grammar via CMD_LOAD_SRC in = some other format than VoiceXML. Then the Voice Browser can use these = directly for the next prompt-and-collect without bothering with VoiceXML = interpretation. The Voice Browser and GUI Browser still need to = communicate in terms of documents, dialogs, and fields, but each = document has just one dialog in it, and that dialog has one field. I = suppose you could even put something like "run " or even = "prompt-collect #123456" in the CMD_LOAD_SRC. =20 I think our group needs to have the general principal that DMSP should = know as little as possible about the voice dialog language layered on = top of it, so that it can evolve (e.g., to VoiceXML 3.0) independently, = and so that your use-case could be supported. =20 Having said all this, there are major interoperability issues if you use = a proprietary approach instead of the standard one. The same economic = forces that made the industry adopt VoiceXML are at work here too, so = the great majority of DMSP clients and DMSP servers will layer VoiceXML = on top of DMSP. =20 Jim Ferrans ________________________________ From: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:05 AM To: GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Hello Aurelien, =20 See my response embedded below. Thanks for reading the draft and = providing your input. =20 -jre =20 ps - I've cc'd the dmsp list on my response, as there are others there = who have made similar suggestions. ________________________________ From: GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN = [mailto:aurelien.guillou@francetelecom.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:17 AM To: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678 Subject: DMSP vs EMMA Hi Jonathan,=20 I've read the specification of the EMMA at the W3C, and I wonder how we = can insert the EMMA messages in the=20 DMSP protocol. My view is that EMMA should describe the recognition = results for example from the server to the client in=20 a DSMP response MESSAGE. Is DSMP should really encapsulates EMMA = messages ? =20 JRE: Yes. EMMA messages could be carried as "extended recognition = results". See section 4.2.2.9 in the spec.=20 DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands (NOINPUT, = NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without VoiceXML browser = (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS ressources (only launch = recognition or synthesis process). Do you plan to open / enlarge the = DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =20 JRE: We intentionally designed the protocol to operate at the dialog = level, as this helps keep the protocol amenable to implementations that = involve low bandwidth, high latency networks and resource constrained = clients. That said, you aren't the first one to bring this point up = both on the mailing list and in offline discussions. If there are = additional features required by the particular multimodal use cases you = have in mind that aren't already adequately addressed by MRCP, please = share them on the dmsp list. We would like to maintain support for = dialog level control messages, but at the same time are open to = supporting other configurations as well, as long as we can keep the = message set and associated state machines simple and compact.=20 Thanks for your response,=20 Best Regards.=20 Aur=E9lien.=20 Aur=E9lien Guillou=20 France T=E9l=E9com=20 Recherche & D=E9veloppement=20 SIRP/SIS/SIT=20 Ing=E9nieur R&D=20 2, avenue Pierre Marzin=20 22307 LANNION Cedex=20 Tel : + 33 (0)2 96 05 94 26=20 Fax : + 33 (0)2 96 05 18 49=20 http://www.francetelecom.com/rd =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FD2.B9B3453A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DMSP vs EMMA

Aurelien:=20 DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands = (NOINPUT,=20 NOMATCH,=85). Multimodal services can be done without VoiceXML browser = (without=20 VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS resources (only launch = recognition or=20 synthesis process). Do you plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to = "simple"=20 Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ?   

I believe you already can drive the Voice Browser at a = conceptual level=20 beneath a VoiceXML dialog.  One way to do this is to send = the=20 Voice Browser a new extremely simple VoiceXML document for each=20 prompt-and-collect, using CMD_LOAD_SRC.  The GUI Browser constructs = this=20 document from a prompt and a speech recognition grammar (by URL or by = providing=20 complete text).  It inserts the prompt and the grammar into a = standard=20 VoiceXML template that consists of a single <form> and a single=20 <field>, then sends the resulting document via the = CMD_LOAD_SRC.  At=20 the start of the application, and after each speech recognition attempt, = the GUI=20 Browser creates the next prompt-and-collect document to listen for and = sends it=20 to the Voice Browser.  This creates a bit more message traffic=20 though.
 
As far=20 as DMSP is concerned, the Voice Browser doesn't even have to have a = VoiceXML=20 interpreter.  You could modify the above approach to have the GUI = Browser=20 send the bare prompt and speech grammar via CMD_LOAD_SRC in some other = format=20 than VoiceXML.  Then the Voice Browser can use these directly for = the=20 next prompt-and-collect without bothering with VoiceXML=20 interpretation.  The Voice Browser and GUI Browser still need to=20 communicate in terms of documents, dialogs, and fields, but each = document has=20 just one dialog in it, and that dialog has one field.  I suppose = you could=20 even put something like "run <url>" or even "prompt-collect = #123456" in=20 the CMD_LOAD_SRC.
 
I think our group needs to have the = general=20 principal that DMSP should know as little as possible about the voice = dialog=20 language layered on top of it, so that it can evolve (e.g., to VoiceXML = 3.0)=20 independently, and so that your use-case could be=20 supported.
 
Having said all this, there are major = interoperability=20 issues if you use a proprietary approach instead of the standard = one.  The=20 same economic forces that made the industry adopt VoiceXML are at work = here too,=20 so the great majority of DMSP clients and DMSP servers will layer = VoiceXML on=20 top of DMSP.
 
Jim Ferrans

From: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678 =
Sent:=20 Friday, April 14, 2006 9:05 AM
To: GUILLOU Aurelien=20 RD-SIRP-LAN
Cc: dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: [Dmsp] RE: = DMSP vs=20 EMMA

Hello Aurelien,
 
See my response embedded below.  Thanks = for reading=20 the draft and providing your input.
 
-jre
 
ps - = I've cc'd the=20 dmsp list on my response, as there are others there who have made = similar=20 suggestions.
From: GUILLOU Aurelien RD-SIRP-LAN=20 [mailto:aurelien.guillou@francetelecom.com]
Sent: Friday, = April 14,=20 2006 4:17 AM
To: Engelsma Jonathan-QA2678
Subject: = DMSP vs=20 EMMA

Hi Jonathan,

I've read the specification of the EMMA = at the W3C,=20 and I wonder how we can insert the EMMA messages in the
DMSP protocol. My view is that EMMA should = describe the=20 recognition results for example from the server to the client in =

a DSMP response MESSAGE. Is DSMP should = really=20 encapsulates EMMA messages ?  

JRE:=20 Yes.  EMMA messages could be carried as "extended recognition=20 results".  See section 4.2.2.9 in the spec. 

DSMP messages are really closed to = VoiceXML=20 events / commands (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,=85). Multimodal services can be = done without=20 VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS = ressources=20 (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you plan to open / = enlarge=20 the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML)=20 ?   

JRE: We intentionally designed the protocol to operate = at the=20 dialog level, as this helps keep the protocol amenable to = implementations that=20 involve low bandwidth, high latency networks and resource constrained=20 clients.   That said, you aren't the first one to bring this = point up=20 both on the mailing list and in offline discussions.  If there = are=20 additional features required by the particular multimodal use cases you = have in=20 mind that aren't already adequately addressed by MRCP,  please = share them=20 on the dmsp list.    We would like to maintain support = for dialog=20 level control messages, but at the same time are open to supporting = other=20 configurations as well, as long as we can keep the message set and=20 associated state machines simple and = compact. 

Thanks for your response, =
Best Regards.
Aur=E9lien.

Aur=E9lien Guillou =
France T=E9l=E9com =
Recherche & = D=E9veloppement=20
SIRP/SIS/SIT=20
Ing=E9nieur R&D =
2, avenue Pierre Marzin
22307 LANNION=20 Cedex
Tel : + = 33 (0)2 96 05=20 94 26
Fax : + 33 (0)2=20 96 05 18 49
http://www.francetelecom.com/rd


------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FD2.B9B3453A-- --===============1805231503== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1805231503==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 14 12:47:26 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FURSA-0002pm-Ie; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FURS8-0002iE-M2 for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:24 -0400 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.152]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FURS8-00086O-AS for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:24 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e34.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3EGlNa4032060 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:23 -0400 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k3EGohV5178416 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:50:43 -0600 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k3EGlN7g019717 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:47:23 -0600 Received: from d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.145]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3EGlN4Q019707 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:47:23 -0600 In-Reply-To: <6806C66D71ED9241BAECC0478173B71F7A87E0@de01exm69.ds.mot.com> Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA To: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF85 November 04, 2005 Message-ID: From: Chris Cross Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:05 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM119/03/M/IBM(Release 6.53HF654 | July 22, 2005) at 04/14/2006 10:50:31 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1689489158==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 14 14:02:01 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUScL-0002qU-Fl; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:02:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUScL-0002qP-57 for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:02:01 -0400 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FUScI-0001ya-N2 for dmsp@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:02:01 -0400 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate3.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate3) with ESMTP id k3EINliP026511 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm66.ds.mot.com (de01exm66.am.mot.com [10.176.8.17]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k3EIDOZ4008181 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:13:25 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:01:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Thread-Index: AcZf4ysJ19G7qhtzSWmMRNewWGHM9wACQ+mQ From: "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" To: "Chris Cross" , X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-White-List-Member: TRUE X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f Cc: X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1629982925==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1629982925== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C65FED.84C76D0B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FED.84C76D0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I strongly agree. =20 An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response. According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were possible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't making assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating MRCP's functionality. =20 Jim ________________________________ From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA > DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands=20 > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without=20 > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS=20 > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you=20 > plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server=20 > (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =20 I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an application wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that. chris cross ------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FED.84C76D0B Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I strongly agree.
 
An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if = CMD_LOAD_SRC=20 could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP = response.  =20 According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were = possible to=20 (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't making=20 assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating MRCP's=20 functionality.
 
Jim

From: Chris Cross = [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM
To:=20 dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs=20 EMMA

> DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / = commands=20
> (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,…). Multimodal services can be done = without
>=20 VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS =
>=20 ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you =
> plan=20 to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server
> = (ASR+TTS=20 without VoiceXML) ?  

I agree with other's responses = to=20 Aurelien. However, we must take care to not duplicate the function of = MRCP. The=20 domain we're working in is the sychronization of modalities within a=20 dialog. I think if all an application wants to do is speech = enable itself=20 through a low level speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct = route=20 for that.

chris cross

------_=_NextPart_001_01C65FED.84C76D0B-- --===============1629982925== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1629982925==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 18 17:47:24 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy2e-0000q7-Bh; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:47:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy2c-0000q2-Sa for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:47:22 -0400 Received: from mxgate1.brooktrout.com ([204.176.74.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy2c-00007j-H6 for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:47:22 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,131,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="31442557:sNHT33818444" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Dmsp] Comments on draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:47:20 -0400 Message-ID: <330A23D8336C0346B5C1A5BB1966664702AE2005@ATLANTIS.Brooktrout.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] Comments on draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt Thread-Index: AcZNJc71JX1OMyZVTkyiN39gU8LCkwWCut/g From: "Burger, Eric" To: "Chris Cross" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Cc: dmsp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org In-line > ________________________________________ > From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:25 PM > To: dmsp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dmsp] Comments on draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt >=20 > Eric, > Thanks for your comments. It takes a bit of work to wade through a spec this size and I appreciate the effort.=20 >=20 > "Burger, Eric" wrote on 03/20/2006 08:48:35 PM: [snip] > > User-Agent field in SIG_INIT: says for advertising capabilities, but it > > is just a string identifying the GUA. A better mechanism is to advertise > > capabilities. >=20 > Open to suggestion here. The intent is to provide an efficient one-turn init event. I would offer choosing to either have a bunch of protocol data elements conveying what capabilities need to be conveyed, a parameterized string, or a structured string. I would offer that creating PDE's makes extensions problematic and structured strings are doomed to interoperability failure. That leaves a string with (extendable) parameters. [snip] > > Translating the real result into a DMSP result will be error-prone and > > is guaranteed to not supply what the application desires. What is the > > use case? It is not a VoiceXML browser in the handset; that is what > > MRCPv2 is for. It is inconceivable that it is a network-based VoiceXML > > browser using a handset ASR engine; if the handset has the power to run > > ASR, it most likely has the power to run a VoiceXML browser. > >=20 > > For that matter, what does the GUA do with recognition results? Is it to > > populate fields or to help in low-confidence situations? If the former, > > then it isn't worth having confidence scores - there should not be more > > than one value. If the latter, what does the interaction look like? I am > > asking, because presumably the VoiceXML interpreter will go into its "I > > did not get that" portion of the form. I am assuming that the goal is to > > allow the user to visually pick from a list of results. I was thinking > > that it might be more compact to have the GUA send the VUA the correct > > pick by reference, but that is too much state to carry around (which > > pick of which result are we referring to ). Thus the current model where > > the GUA pushes down the result string is a good way to go. >=20 > Don't assume that the application author will only want to > handle n-best results in the voice modality. He may prompt > the user with "what did you say?" and pop up a list to choose > from. The same argument goes for the interpretation and/or > recognition results. There's all kinds of creative things > that the GUA can do with that information. >=20 > MRCP by definition does not support dialog level application > programming. So your assertion that there won't be VoiceXML > in a handset is incorrect. DMSP is designed to support a > couple of broad use cases: Interaction Manager and > peer-to-peer configurations. The latter includes an X+V > multimodal browser where the VoiceXML is rendered by a > remote VoiceXML server. Turn your assertion around: are > there devices that could support a VoiceXML interpreter but > not ASR/TTS? That was my point exactly. We violently agree here. [snip] > > Strings: most of the strings are or will need to be Unicode. For > > example, arbitrary form text data can easily be non-Western. Likewise, > > expect International URI's to end up as Unicode or UTF-16. If every byte > > counts, then I would offer selecting the charset in SIG_INIT or > > SIG_VXML_START, with a default to UTF-8. >=20 > Every byte counts so utf-8 is probably the default. Maybe > string encoding is part of the initial session negotiation? Sounds like a plan. > > DOM keydown, keyup, keypress events: I don't have the DOM reference > > handy. Do these refer to actual keyboard presses or ink strokes? If so, > > who would use a key-by-key protocol for a distributed, web-oriented > > stimulus protocol? >=20 > Others in the multimodal community, such as some OMA members, > have pressed for this level of granularity (no pun intended.) > I don't think key-by-key protocol is practical on a real > network and it is generally not necessary in dialog level > interaction. Ouch! Hehehe. Agreed :) [snip] _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 18 17:50:50 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy5y-0000yb-JU; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:50:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy5x-0000yW-3p for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:50:49 -0400 Received: from mxgate1.brooktrout.com ([204.176.74.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVy5v-0000I3-RG for dmsp@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:50:49 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,131,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="31442604:sNHT53230728" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:50:45 -0400 Message-ID: <330A23D8336C0346B5C1A5BB1966664702AE200B@ATLANTIS.Brooktrout.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Thread-Index: AcZf4ysJ19G7qhtzSWmMRNewWGHM9wACQ+mQANFgLZA= From: "Burger, Eric" To: "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" , "Chris Cross" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2. If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is one = would use MRCPv2. That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we = did in MRCPv2. Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to result in = a loss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want some = extension that gets into EMMA put into DMSP. Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differs = from EMMA? The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA: Same parser / generator Same data format Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA gets a new = feature ________________________________________ From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA I strongly agree. =A0 An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC = could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response.=A0=A0 = According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were = possible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP = isn't making assumptions about its payload, and that we're not = duplicating MRCP's functionality. =A0 Jim ________________________________________ From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA > DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands=20 > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without=20 > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS=20 > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you=20 > plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server=20 > (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =A0=20 I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is = the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an = application wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level = speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that. chris cross _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 19 09:59:46 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDDe-0004hs-Ss; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:59:46 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDDd-0004gh-HX for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:59:45 -0400 Received: from mxgate1.brooktrout.com ([204.176.74.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDDc-0004ft-Bu for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:59:45 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,135,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="31459515:sNHT29126336" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:59:42 -0400 Message-ID: <330A23D8336C0346B5C1A5BB1966664702AE22DE@ATLANTIS.Brooktrout.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Sigh Thread-Index: AcZjuYBiCk/XmpeGTp2z0J3bG0sUzw== From: "Burger, Eric" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Subject: [Dmsp] Sigh X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Of course, we're interested in DMSP. I would offer a consolidated list of interest is a way to go. Reaching out is a good idea, but I would also suggest gaining visibility through the usual marketing organizations, e.g., VoiceXML Forum, SALT Forum, TMC, etc., to get the commercial interests psyched. _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 19 10:14:31 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDRv-0008Aa-3l; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:14:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDRu-0008AR-4G for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:14:30 -0400 Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWDRt-0005lX-Ij for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:14:30 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JEESv5016518 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:14:28 -0400 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (d03av04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.170]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k3JEHpxd164722 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:17:51 -0600 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k3JEERlP003512 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:14:27 -0600 Received: from d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.145]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JEERoJ003496; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:14:27 -0600 In-Reply-To: <330A23D8336C0346B5C1A5BB1966664702AE200B@ATLANTIS.Brooktrout.com> Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA To: "Burger, Eric" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF85 November 04, 2005 Message-ID: From: Chris Cross Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:13:02 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM119/03/M/IBM(Release 6.53HF654 | July 22, 2005) at 04/19/2006 08:17:42 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 46ad68ada464411807db2a0edd5648ae Cc: dmsp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1294365165==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org --===============1294365165== Content-type: multipart/related; Boundary="0__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C" --0__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="1__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C" --1__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Eric, I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is agnos= tic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is the defaul= t that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which inclide SI_TYPE and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of semantic interpretation type by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example type because at the time of writing it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is an obvious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal to= the DMSP protocol. We may need to formalize SI_TYPE to include version... thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 = "Burger, Eric" = = To "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" = 04/18/2006 05:50 , Ch= ris PM Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS = = cc = Subj= ect RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA = = = = = = = I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2. If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is on= e would use MRCPv2. That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we= did in MRCPv2. Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to result in a l= oss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want some extension = that gets into EMMA put into DMSP. Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differ= s from EMMA? The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA: Same parser / generator Same data format Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA gets a new= feature ________________________________________ From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA I strongly agree.=00 An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response. According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were poss= ible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't makin= g assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating MRCP's functionality.=00 Jim ________________________________________ From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA > DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you > plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server > (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an applica= tion wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that. chris cross = --1__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Eric,
I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is agnos= tic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is the de= fault that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which incl= ide SI_TYPE and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of semantic = interpretation type by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example type be= cause at the time of writing it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is an ob= vious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal to t= he DMSP protocol. We may need to formalize SI_TYPE to include version..= .

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727

3D"Inactive"Burger, Eric" <EBurger= @cantata.com>


=
          "Burger, Eric" <EBurger@cantata.co= m>

          04/18/2006 05:50 PM

 = =

To
3D""
"Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" <James.Ferrans@m= otorola.com>, Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS

cc
3D""
<dmsp@ietf.org>

Subject
3D""
RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA
=3D""3D""<= /td>

I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2.  If one needs MRCPv2, my gu= ess is one would use MRCPv2.

That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we= did in MRCPv2.  Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to res= ult in a loss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want s= ome extension that gets into EMMA put into DMSP.

Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differ= s from EMMA?

The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA:

Same parser / generator
Same data format
Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers
Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA = gets a new feature

________________________________________
From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM
To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA

I strongly agree.
=A0
An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC = could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response.=A0=A0= According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were pos= sible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't= making assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating M= RCP's functionality.
=A0
Jim

________________________________________
From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@u= s.ibm.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM
To: dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA
> DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands
= > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS <= br> > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you =
> plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voi= ce server
> (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =A0

I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is t= he sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an appl= ication wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level speech = engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that.

chris cross

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name="ecblank.gif" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ecblank.gif" Content-ID: <30__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938@us.ibm.com> Content-transfer-encoding: base64 R0lGODlhEAABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAAQAAEAAAIEjI8ZBQA7 --0__=0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFDF6F8C-- --===============1294365165== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1294365165==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 19 10:52:33 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE2j-0000vE-1C; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:52:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE2h-0000v4-6s for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:52:31 -0400 Received: from maild.telecomitalia.it ([156.54.233.30]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE2e-00074X-6H for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:52:31 -0400 Received: from ptpxch009ba020.idc.cww.telecomitalia.it ([156.54.240.52]) by maild.telecomitalia.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:52:27 +0200 Received: from PTPEVS106BA020.idc.cww.telecomitalia.it ([156.54.241.223]) by ptpxch009ba020.idc.cww.telecomitalia.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:52:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: R: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:52:24 +0200 Message-ID: Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA thread-index: AcZju5YpCraLxU+ISF2pkur37+zOWgAANslA From: "Baggia Paolo" To: "Chris Cross" , "Burger, Eric" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2006 14:52:26.0850 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFEF2420:01C663C0] X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c6d4566aad1fef50f784fa8a77ccada7 Cc: dmsp@ietf.org X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1779844883==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1779844883== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, =20 EMMA is a good candidate for representing a semantic content. MRCP for = instance choose to standardize a former format called NLSML because EMMA was still not stable enough, so also NLSML would be another = candidate and even a serialization of ECMA-262. =20 SISR seems to me feature related to the grammar in use by the = applications that should be independent to DMSP, but I might be wrong. =20 Paolo. =20 ________________________________ Da: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20 Inviato: mercoled=EC 19 aprile 2006 16.13 A: Burger, Eric Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Oggetto: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA =20 Eric, I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is = agnostic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is = the default that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which = inclide SI_TYPE and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of = semantic interpretation type by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example = type because at the time of writing it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is = an obvious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal = to the DMSP protocol. We may need to formalize SI_TYPE to include = version... thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 "Burger, Eric" "Burger, Eric" =20 04/18/2006 05:50 PM =20 To =20 "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" , Chris Cross/West = Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS cc Subject RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA =20 I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2. If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is one = would use MRCPv2. That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we = did in MRCPv2. Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to result in = a loss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want some = extension that gets into EMMA put into DMSP. Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differs = from EMMA? The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA: Same parser / generator Same data format Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA gets a new = feature ________________________________________ From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA I strongly agree. =20 An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC = could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response. = According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were = possible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP = isn't making assumptions about its payload, and that we're not = duplicating MRCP's functionality. =20 Jim ________________________________________ From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA > DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands=20 > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without=20 > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS=20 > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you=20 > plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server=20 > (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? =20 I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is = the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an = application wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level = speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that. chris cross Gruppo Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia = S.p.A. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons = above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the = message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is = prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the = message. Should you have any questions, please send an e_mail to = webmaster@telecomitalia.it. Thank = youwww.loquendo.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------_=_NextPart_002_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris,

 

EMMA is a good = candidate for representing a semantic content. MRCP for instance choose to = standardize a former format called NLSML

because EMMA was = still not stable enough, so also NLSML would be another candidate and even a serialization of ECMA-262.

 =

SISR seems to me = feature related to the grammar in use by the applications that should be = independent to DMSP, but I might be

wrong.=

 =

Paolo.=

 =

Da: Chris = Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]
Inviato: mercoled=EC 19 = aprile 2006 16.13
A: Burger, Eric
Cc: dmsp@ietf.org
Oggetto: RE: [Dmsp] RE: = DMSP vs EMMA

 

Eric,
I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is = agnostic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is the default = that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which inclide SI_TYPE = and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of semantic interpretation type = by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example type because at the time of writing = it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is an obvious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal to the DMSP protocol. We may need to = formalize SI_TYPE to include version...

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727

3D"Inactive"Burger, Eric" <EBurger@cantata.com>

"Burger, Eric" <EBurger@cantata.com>

04/18/2006 05:50 = PM

To


"Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" <James.Ferrans@motorola.com>, Chris = Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS

cc


<dmsp@ietf.org>=

Subject


RE: = [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA

 


I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2.  If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is = one would use MRCPv2.

That said, I would offer the same = approach to recognition results as we did in MRCPv2.  Virtually any deviation = from EMMA is bound to result in a loss of functionality and you can bet that = someone will want some extension that gets into EMMA put into = DMSP.

Can anyone give a value to having a = proprietary DMSP format that differs from EMMA?

The flip side is there are lots of = benefits of reusing EMMA:

Same parser / generator
Same data format
Integrates directly with speech engines = and browsers
Always "the latest": don't need = to hack DMSP every time EMMA gets a new feature

________________________________________
From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.= com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 = PM
To: Chris Cross; = dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs = EMMA

I strongly agree.
 
An interesting thought experiment would = be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC could contain an MRCP request and the result be = an MRCP response.   According to our studies this is quite = inefficient, but if it were possible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would = indicate that DMSP isn't making assumptions about its payload, and that we're not = duplicating MRCP's functionality.
 
Jim

________________________________________
From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com] =
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 = AM
To: dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs = EMMA
> DSMP messages are really closed to = VoiceXML events / commands
> (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal = services can be done without
> VoiceXML browser (without VXML = scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS
> ressources (only launch recognition = or synthesis process). Do you
> plan to open / enlarge the DMSP = protocol to "simple" Voice server
> (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ?   =

I agree with other's responses to = Aurelien. However, we must take care to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The = domain we're working in is the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I = think if all an application wants to do is speech enable itself through a low = level speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for = that.

chris = cross


Gruppo=20 Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia = S.p.A.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
CONFIDENTIALITY=20 NOTICE
This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the=20 persons
above and may contain confidential information. If you have=20 received
the message in error, be informed that any use of the = content=20 hereof
is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and=20 delete
the message. Should you have any questions, please send an = e_mail=20 to
<mailto:webmaster@telecomitalia= .it>webmaster@telecomitalia.it.=20 Thank you
<http://www.loquendo.com>www.loque= ndo.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

------_=_NextPart_002_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9-- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Location: image001.gif R0lGODlhEAAQAKECAMzMzAAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAIALAAAAAAQABAAAAIXlI+py+0PopwxUbpu ZRfKZ2zgSJbmSRYAIf4fT3B0aW1pemVkIGJ5IFVsZWFkIFNtYXJ0U2F2ZXIhAAA7 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Description: image002.gif Content-Location: image002.gif R0lGODlhOgABAHcAMSH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAAB AAEAgAAAAAECAwICRAEAOw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image003.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Description: image003.gif Content-Location: image003.gif R0lGODlhAQABAHcAMSH+GlNvZnR3YXJlOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgT2ZmaWNlACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAAB AAEAgAAAAAECAwICRAEAOw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C0.DF4C8DE9-- --===============1779844883== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Dmsp mailing list Dmsp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmsp --===============1779844883==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 19 11:07:02 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEGk-0005BU-Kl; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:07:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEGj-0005BP-UO for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:07:01 -0400 Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEGg-000811-Ht for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:07:01 -0400 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JF6w4w003565 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:58 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k3JF6wGT208754 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:58 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k3JF6wp1005118 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:58 -0400 Received: from d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JF6uax004910 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:57 -0400 To: dmsp@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.1 January 17, 2006 From: Nathaniel S Borenstein Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:51 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/19/2006 10:06:57 AM, Serialize complete at 04/19/2006 10:06:57 AM X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: b058151374d77ee76edaac850f7449fb Cc: Subject: [Dmsp] DMSP BOF X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0803582129==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0803582129== Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_related 0052F7B485257155_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_related 0052F7B485257155_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0052F7B485257155_=" --=_alternative 0052F7B485257155_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I support holding a DMSP BOF at the 66th IETF in Montreal. -- Nathaniel --=_alternative 0052F7B485257155_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I support holding a DMSP BOF at the 66th IETF in Montreal.  -- Nathaniel
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Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEqe-0005tw-7D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:44:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEqd-0005to-Gp for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:44:07 -0400 Received: from motgate4.mot.com ([144.189.100.102]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEqb-00010R-Up for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:44:07 -0400 Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate4.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate4) with ESMTP id k3JFvB6U005791 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm66.ds.mot.com (de01exm66.am.mot.com [10.176.8.17]) by az33exr01.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id k3JG62SP007514 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:06:03 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Dmsp] DMSP BOF Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:44:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Dmsp] DMSP BOF Thread-Index: AcZjwvRLQlsJkgm1Q/eNDEhpZMrfIgABQfcQ From: "Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" To: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAQ= X-White-List-Member: TRUE X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 562cdc9baa87554b29d950396a30cf75 X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0926850497==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0926850497== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C663C8.15EA4FBB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C663C8.15EA4FBB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C663C8.15EA4FBB" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C663C8.15EA4FBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also support a DMSP BoF in Montreal. =20 Jim Ferrans Motorola=20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Nathaniel S Borenstein [mailto:nborenst@us.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:07 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: [Dmsp] DMSP BOF I support holding a DMSP BOF at the 66th IETF in Montreal. -- Nathaniel =20 ------_=_NextPart_002_01C663C8.15EA4FBB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also support a DMSP BoF in=20 Montreal.
 
Jim Ferrans
Motorola
 
 
From: = Nathaniel S=20 Borenstein [mailto:nborenst@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, = April 19,=20 2006 10:07 AM
To: dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: [Dmsp] DMSP = BOF


I support holding a DMSP = BOF at the=20 66th IETF in Montreal.  -- Nathaniel
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--===============0926850497==-- From dmsp-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 19 13:16:56 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWGIS-00053T-6n; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:16:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWGIQ-00053N-Tz for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:16:54 -0400 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.152]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWGIO-0005JQ-2L for dmsp@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:16:54 -0400 Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e34.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JHGp9M018089 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:16:51 -0400 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.8) with ESMTP id k3JHDCDH186566 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:13:12 -0600 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k3JHGpkj025776 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:16:51 -0600 Received: from d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm119.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.145]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JHGoGf025737 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:16:50 -0600 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: R: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA To: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF85 November 04, 2005 Message-ID: From: Chris Cross Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:15:19 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM119/03/M/IBM(Release 6.53HF654 | July 22, 2005) at 04/19/2006 11:20:05 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3c5809f82a2ef36c74d8c0ab21f70455 X-BeenThere: dmsp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0727527262==" Errors-To: dmsp-bounces@ietf.org --===============0727527262== Content-type: multipart/related; Boundary="0__=0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE" --0__=0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE Content-type: multipart/alternative; Boundary="1__=0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE" --1__=0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Paolo, I think SISR is a choice because of its relationship to VoiceXML. In an= y case, whether its EMMA, SISR, NLSML, or ECMAScript serialization, DMSP = just provides a way to negotiate the type and send the payload. thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 = "Baggia Paolo" = = To Chris Cross/West Palm = 04/19/2006 10:52 Beach/IBM@IBMUS, "Burger, Eric" = AM = = cc , "Baggia Paolo" = = Subj= ect R: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA = = = = = = = Chris, EMMA is a good candidate for representing a semantic content. MRCP for instance choose to standardize a former format called NLSML because EMMA was still not stable enough, so also NLSML would be anothe= r candidate and even a serialization of ECMA-262. SISR seems to me feature related to the grammar in use by the applicati= ons that should be independent to DMSP, but I might be wrong. Paolo. Da: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com] Inviato: mercoled=EC 19 aprile 2006 16.13 A: Burger, Eric Cc: dmsp@ietf.org Oggetto: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA Eric, I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is agnos= tic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is the defaul= t that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which inclide SI_TYPE and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of semantic interpretation type by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example type because at the time of writing it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is an obvious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal to= the DMSP protocol. We may need to formalize SI_TYPE to include version... thanks, chris Chris Cross Multimodal Browser Architect _________________________ IBM Boca Raton xcross@us.ibm.com voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102 mobile 561.317.0700 fax 501.641.6727 Inactive hide details for "Burger, Eric" "Burger, Eric" = "Burg = er, = Eric" = , Ch= ris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS = = 04/18 = cc /2006 = 05:50 = PM = Subj= ect = RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA = = = = = = = = = = = I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2. If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is on= e would use MRCPv2. That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we= did in MRCPv2. Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to result in a l= oss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want some extension = that gets into EMMA put into DMSP. Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differ= s from EMMA? The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA: Same parser / generator Same data format Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA gets a new= feature ________________________________________ From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:James.Ferrans@motorola.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA I strongly agree. An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response. According to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were poss= ible to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't makin= g assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating MRCP's functionality. Jim ________________________________________ From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM To: dmsp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA > DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you > plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voice server > (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ? I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is the sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an applica= tion wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level speech engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that. chris cross Gruppo Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia S.p= .A. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please send an e_mail to webmaster@telecomitalia.it. Thank yo= u www.loquendo.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= = --1__=0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE8f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFBC6DFCDA4AE Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Paolo,
I think SISR is a choice because of its relationship to VoiceXML. In an= y case, whether its EMMA, SISR, NLSML, or ECMAScript serialization, DMS= P just provides a way to negotiate the type and send the payload.

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727

3D"Inactive"Baggia Paolo" <p= aolo.baggia@loquendo.com>


=
          "Baggia Paolo" <paolo.baggia@loque= ndo.com>

          04/19/2006 10:52 AM

 =

To
3D""
Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS, "Burger, E= ric" <EBurger@cantata.com>

cc
3D""
<dmsp@ietf.org>, "Baggia Paolo" <pa= olo.baggia@loquendo.com>

Subject
3D""
R: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA
=3D""3D""<= /td>

Chris,

EMMA is a good candidate for rep= resenting a semantic content. MRCP for instance choose to standardize a= former format called NLSML
because EMMA was still not stabl= e enough, so also NLSML would be another candidate and even a serializa= tion of ECMA-262.

SISR seems to me feature related= to the grammar in use by the applications that should be independent t= o DMSP, but I might be
wrong.

Paolo.

Da: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com]
Inviato: mercoled=EC 19 aprile 2006 16= .13
A: Burger, Eric
Cc: dmsp@ietf.org
Oggetto: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA

Eric,
I think the subject line of this thread is a red herring. DMSP is agnos= tic on the format of interpretation. It may well be that EMMA is the de= fault that implementors choose. Table 9 shows RESULT_EX type which incl= ide SI_TYPE and SI. The intent is to allow the negotiation of semantic = interpretation type by the endpoints. I show SISR as an example type be= cause at the time of writing it was CR status in the W3C. EMMA is an ob= vious alternative. But SI type is an application choice orthogonal to t= he DMSP protocol. We may need to formalize SI_TYPE to include version..= .

thanks,
chris


Chris Cross
Multimodal Browser Architect
_________________________
IBM Boca Raton
xcross@us.ibm.com
voice 561.862.2102 t/l 975.2102
mobile 561.317.0700
fax 501.641.6727

3D"Inactive"Burger, Eric" <EBurger@cantata.com>
=

=
                  "Burger, Eric" <EBur= ger@cantata.com>

                  04/18/2006 05:50 PM

 = =
3D""
To
3D""
"Ferrans James-JFERRAN1" <James.Ferrans@motorola.com>, = Chris Cross/West Palm Beach/IBM@IBMUS
3D""
cc
3D""
<dmsp@ietf.org>
3D""
Subject
3D""
RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA


= =
3D""3D""


I'm not a fan of tunneling MRCPv2. If one needs MRCPv2, my guess is on= e would use MRCPv2.

That said, I would offer the same approach to recognition results as we= did in MRCPv2. Virtually any deviation from EMMA is bound to result i= n a loss of functionality and you can bet that someone will want some e= xtension that gets into EMMA put into DMSP.

Can anyone give a value to having a proprietary DMSP format that differ= s from EMMA?

The flip side is there are lots of benefits of reusing EMMA:

Same parser / generator
Same data format
Integrates directly with speech engines and browsers
Always "the latest": don't need to hack DMSP every time EMMA = gets a new feature

________________________________________
From: Ferrans James-JFERRAN1 [mailto:Jame= s.Ferrans@motorola.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:02 PM
To: Chris Cross; dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA

I strongly agree.

An interesting thought experiment would be to consider if CMD_LOAD_SRC = could contain an MRCP request and the result be an MRCP response. Acc= ording to our studies this is quite inefficient, but if it were possibl= e to (mis)use DMSP in this way, that would indicate that DMSP isn't mak= ing assumptions about its payload, and that we're not duplicating MRCP'= s functionality.

Jim

________________________________________
From: Chris Cross [mailto:xcross@us.ibm.com= ]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:47 AM
To: dmsp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dmsp] RE: DMSP vs EMMA
> DSMP messages are really closed to VoiceXML events / commands
= > (NOINPUT, NOMATCH,...). Multimodal services can be done without > VoiceXML browser (without VXML scripts) with only simple ASR/TTS <= br> > ressources (only launch recognition or synthesis process). Do you =
> plan to open / enlarge the DMSP protocol to "simple" Voi= ce server
> (ASR+TTS without VoiceXML) ?

I agree with other's responses to Aurelien. However, we must take care = to not duplicate the function of MRCP. The domain we're working in is t= he sychronization of modalities within a dialog. I think if all an appl= ication wants to do is speech enable itself through a low level speech = engine interface then MRCP may be the correct route for that.

chris cross


Gruppo Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia S.p= .A.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please send an e_mail to <mailto:webmaster@telecomitalia.it<= font size=3D"4">>webmaster@telecomitalia.it. Thank you
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