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From: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@NLnetLabs.nl>
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To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: DNSEXT list policy
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- List Purpose

  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org is the mailing list for the IETF DNSEXT
  working group.  

  See <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsext-charter.html> for the
  wg charter.  Messages should be on topics appropriate to the dnsext
  wg, which are various discussion of the DNS protocols or
  administrivia of the WG itself.

- Specific items that are not not appropriate for posting

  Calls for papers, announcements of events not directly relevant to
  the DNS protocols, etc. are not appropriate.  

  Discussion of problems with particular implementations,
  announcements of releases, sites' misconfigurations, pleas for help
  with specific implementations, etc.  should be done on mailing lists
  for the particular implementations.

  There is a working group for dns operational practice, DNSOP, whose
  charter can be found at
  <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsop-charter.html>. Items
  relevant to the DNSOP charter are to be discussed on the DNSOP
  mailinglist.

  Discussion about the quality of implementations is outside the scope
  of this list.

- Moderation

  Moderation is based on "subscriber-only with spam filter". To
  counter a certain class of spam mails messages over 20000
  characters, originating from list subscribers, will be held for
  moderations.

  Questions or concerns related to the acceptance or rejection of
  specific messages to the namedroppers mailing list should first be
  discussed with the wg chairs, with followup appeals using the normal
  appeals process of rfc 2026 (i.e. follup with area directors, then
  iesg, etc.).

  There is a mailing list for the discussion of ietf processes, which
  includes any general discussion of the moderation of ietf mailing
  lists.  it is poised@lists.tislabs.com

  
---

NOTE WELL:

All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the 
IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants 
to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such 
statements.

Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as 
written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are 
addressed to

    - the IETF plenary session,
    - any IETF working group or portion thereof,
    - the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG,
    - the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB,
    - any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself,
      any working group or design team list, or any other list
      functioning under IETF auspices,
    - the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function

Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, 
that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or 
function, are not subject to these provisions.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
$Id: dnsext-list-policy.txt,v 1.8 2005/01/12 15:54:51 olaf Exp $

--
to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
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From azrael@sinemporium.com Mon Jan 01 16:37:16 2007
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Subject: Autodesk Autocad 2007 ready to download
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 02 12:46:43 2007
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To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT 
 co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
Subject: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document 
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Dear Colleagues,


on  "Signature-Only DNSSEC: A Simplified Approach"
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stjohns-dnssec-sigonly-00.txt
by Mike StJohns

The discussion about Mike StJohn's SO proposal has settled and now
new arguments for or against have appeared.

We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards track.

As is currently the practice we have a 'bar' at the level where at
least 5 people step forward, support this work, and commit to doing
review work. Obviously there should be a rough consensus as a whole.

If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
please indicate so.

If the working group agrees this is to become a working group
document we will need to assess if this would imply a change in the
charter. Draft texts are welcome (this is a hit to the "at least 5
people" ;-) ).

Olaf and Olafur


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 02 13:39:42 2007
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:17:19 EST."
             <7.0.1.0.2.20070102121135.05e45cd8@ogud.com> 
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070102121135.05e45cd8@ogud.com> 
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> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards track.

no.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

so indicated.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 02 14:13:06 2007
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT 
 co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document 
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070102121135.05e45cd8@ogud.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070102121135.05e45cd8@ogud.com>
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At 12:17 02/01/2007, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT wrote:

>Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>on  "Signature-Only DNSSEC: A Simplified Approach"
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stjohns-dnssec-sigonly-00.txt
>by Mike StJohns
>
>The discussion about Mike StJohn's SO proposal has settled and now

correction:
s/now/no/


>new arguments for or against have appeared.
>
>We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
>to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards=
 track.
>
>As is currently the practice we have a 'bar' at the level where at
>least 5 people step forward, support this work, and commit to doing
>review work. Obviously there should be a rough consensus as a whole.
>
>If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
>have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
>please indicate so.
>
>If the working group agrees this is to become a working group
>document we will need to assess if this would imply a change in the
>charter. Draft texts are welcome (this is a hit to the "at least 5
>people" ;-) ).
>
>Olaf and Olafur
>
>
>--
>to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
>the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
>archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 02 14:23:51 2007
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From: Matt Larson <mlarson@verisign.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
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On Tue, 02 Jan 2007, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards track.

I am against the WG adopting this document.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

I would not object to Informational or Experimental; my objection is
the working group's spending time and attention on the document.

Matt

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From lengthiestpersevering@access.fairfax.com.au Tue Jan 02 17:59:25 2007
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To: <dn@ietf.org>
Subject: Happy NW Derek
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 22:59:23 -0060
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 02 19:10:39 2007
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Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
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Ólafur Guðmundsson /DNSEXT co-chair wrote:
> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards 
> track.
No.
> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.
I do not object to informational/experimental status.

/Bob


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From 406stocknews@tracoassociados.com.br Wed Jan 03 00:47:07 2007
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 03 03:51:49 2007
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Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:43:36 +0100
From: Otmar Lendl <lendl@nic.at>
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: 2929bis RRTYPE Allocation for the ENUM Branch Location Record
Message-ID: <20070103084336.GB9953@nic.at>
References: <20061211123026.GA17954@nic.at>
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Update:

On 2006/12/11 13:12, Otmar Lendl <lendl@nic.at> wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 	  DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE
> 
> Date: 
> 
>   2006/12/11
> 
> Originator: 
> 
>   Otmar Lendl <otmar.lendl@enum.at>, +43 1 5056416 33
> 
> Specification: 
> 
>   http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01

Based on internal feedback, I've rewritten the explanatory text. It now
should be clearer what parts of the DDDS algorithm are amended and
thus how the EBL fits into the overall ENUM protocol. 

No changes have been made to the actual specification.

The current version can be found at:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-02

> Any feedback, both regarding the protocol part, as well as the language
> of draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01 is very much welcome. The
> ENUM WG will put this draft up for last call soon, so I'd prefer to make
> any changes as soon as possible.

The draft is now in WGLC state (till Jan. 15th). 

Once again, any feedback is welcome.

/ol
-- 
< Otmar Lendl (lendl@nic.at) | nic.at Systems Engineer >

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 03 10:57:35 2007
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From: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info>
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
Message-ID: <20070103151320.GA2971@afilias.info>
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Dear colleagues,

On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 12:17:19PM -0500, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT =
co-chair wrote:
> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards t=
rack.

As I noted before, I concluded that the document should not become a
working group document.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

I would be happy to see the document go forward as experimental or
informational (assuming that means that it proceeds as an individual
submission). =20

A

--=20
Andrew Sullivan                         204-4141 Yonge Street
Afilias Canada                        Toronto, Ontario Canada
<andrew@ca.afilias.info>                              M2P 2A8
jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org                 +1 416 646 3304 x4110

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 03 11:23:28 2007
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 <7.0.1.0.2.20070102140742.05983760@ogud.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:12:16 -0500
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_co=2Dchair?=  <ogud@ogud.com>
From: Edward Lewis <Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz>
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
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Lacking any evidence of demand for a solution to the problem it 
solves, I'd say "now," I mean "no," to the question of whether SO 
becomes a standards track working group document.

(Sorry for the no/now slip up.  No, it wasn't intended as a jab, I 
made the mistake independently and caught it on a re-read and 
couldn't resist keeping it in there.)

I don't know how to answer the question of whether or not I'd have a 
problem seeing this being informational or experimental.  If the 
"author" wants to pursue this as an experimental or informational 
does the working group get involved?  Does the working group *have 
to* get involved?  If the "editor" (what the author might become if 
the working group adopts the document as the groups' own) has to push 
this along the tracks, this is work for the working group and I don't 
see that the effort is justified.

This is like the LLMNR situation in which the IESG turned the 
document back to the WG and a few of us said "why?"  Only one person 
had a stake in it, so far as I know.  It isn't that the subject 
matter is abhorrent, it just solves a problem what doesn't seem to 
have an audience.

I'm certainly against expanding the group's charter so that it can 
chase "make work" items.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

Dessert - aka Service Pack 1 for lunch.

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On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Ólafur Guðmundsson /DNSEXT  co-chair wrote:

> on  "Signature-Only DNSSEC: A Simplified Approach"
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stjohns-dnssec-sigonly-00.txt
> by Mike StJohns
>
> The discussion about Mike StJohn's SO proposal has settled and now
> new arguments for or against have appeared.
>
> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards track.

I vote no.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

I'd have no problem with this, as long as it's outside the scope of 
working group.

Brian
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From: Peter Koch <pk@DENIC.DE>
To: IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
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On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 12:17:19PM -0500, Ólafur Guðmundsson /DNSEXT co-chair wrote:

> on  "Signature-Only DNSSEC: A Simplified Approach"
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stjohns-dnssec-sigonly-00.txt
> by Mike StJohns

> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards track.

I do not support the adoption of this document.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

As an Individual Submission this draft can serve as a starting point for a
candidate for Informational or Experimental, maybe based on "DNSSEC
Experiments".

-Peter

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Subject: RE: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document 
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I don't think the group should work on it at this particular time.=20


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From wackyfacilitated@abunayyangroup.com Thu Jan 04 11:29:18 2007
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From velveteen'syodeled@aap.com.au Thu Jan 04 17:27:24 2007
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:25:47 -0060
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From Page@acropolis-newyork.com Fri Jan 05 05:12:57 2007
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Jolie brad, pitt britney spears.
Above get delivered your. Celebs celebrity, quizzes threesomes more =
satiremeet, staffwrite, for advanced. Peace, keeping mission baghdad, =
huge fan hers love husband.
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From wholesale'schocked@aamu.edu Fri Jan 05 07:16:16 2007
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From: "Keith Long" <wholesale'schocked@aamu.edu>
To: <dn@ietf.org>
Subject: Keith wrote:
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:25:51 -0120
Message-ID: <01c1b812$d229c740$6c822ecf@wholesale'schocked>
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Get the New Year Rolling Right	 

Company: PHYA	
Current Price: $1.70	
Target Price: $4.00	 


	Physicians Adult Daycare (PHYA) is set up for huge returns.	
This news is hot off the press and going to have a huge impact over the coming days:	
	 Physicians Adult Daycare, Inc. to Increase Revenue by 83%.  

	HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Jan 3, 2007 -- Physicians Adult	 
Daycare, Inc. announced today that an agreement to purchase an	
additional adult daycare company has been executed	



	 Go to your favorite financial news source to read the details.	
While there also read about the big negotiations going on with major Asian investors.	
Further acquisitions are in the works and we are expecting a huge	
revelation to come out of the company any day. 

	All of these fortuitous events are coming together and sending this one 
straight up!  Don't miss it.





From doug@digexusa.com Fri Jan 05 13:50:40 2007
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From: "Theodore Berg" <doug@digexusa.com>
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Subject: MS Office 2007, Acrobat 8
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When Arctic winds crack down from Canadaat balls hit again and again toward=
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7315B.BF9EF880--




From 35stocknews@torontonotary.com Sun Jan 07 12:54:55 2007
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From conferssacrificed@access.fairfax.com.au Sun Jan 07 20:31:06 2007
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 06:31:47 2007
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From: Brett Carr <brettcarr@ripe.net>
To: IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
In-Reply-To: <20070104103532.GB5192@denics7.denic.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0701081221280.27701@cow.ripe.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070102121135.05e45cd8@ogud.com>
 <20070104103532.GB5192@denics7.denic.de>
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> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 12:17:19PM -0500, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT =
co-chair wrote:
>
> > on  "Signature-Only DNSSEC: A Simplified Approach"
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stjohns-dnssec-sigonly-00.txt
> > by Mike StJohns
>
> > We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> > to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards t=
rack.
>

I do not support the working group adoption of this doc.

>
> > If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> > have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> > please indicate so.
>

I would have no problems in seeing this go forward as informational or
experimental as an individual submission.

Brett..

--
Brett Carr                              RIPE Network Coordination Centre
Manager -- DNS Services Group           Singel 258 Amsterdam NL
GPG Key fingerprint =3D F20D B2A7 C91D E370 44CF  F244 B6A1 EF48 E743 F7D8



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From 618winnie@mail.spbnit.ru Mon Jan 08 08:12:18 2007
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From: "(270) 818-7244 Traci " <388stephen@kbe2000.plus.com>
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Subject: Re: Need {a*} Diploma?
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 11:23:53 2007
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Subject: Re: Adopt DNSSEC SO as WG document
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=D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson <ogud@ogud.com> wrote on 2007-01-02 17:17:19:

> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for standards=20
track.

I think DNSSEC SO is a good proposal that came at a bad time.  It
mitigates the enumeration problem, but 1) the case for authenticated
denial of existence appears to be becoming stronger (e.g., Barefruit,
OpenDNS) and 2) with the NSEC3 work nearing completion, it would send
a very confusing message to advance DNSSEC SO at same time.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

I would be happy to see the DNSSEC SO drafts adopted by the WG as
experimental or informational (provided of course it had five people
willing to review).

Geoff

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 15:34:27 2007
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 co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
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The working group will adopt your draft as a working item.
Before the announcement we need to agree on the scope of the
document or documents:

Proposed scope:
Protection of DNS from forged answers by flooding

The document will update 1034 and make following recommendations:
	- Implementations MUST be able to send queries from ANY UDP port
	- Implementations SHOULD use good random source to
            select Query ID for next query
	- Implementations SHOULD be configurable to use one or
             multiple ports for queries.
	- Implementations MAY be configurable to use one or
             more addresses for queries
	- Implementations MUST suppress multiple identical
             outstanding queries to the SAME server.
	- Implementations MUST match answers to the following
		Remote address
		Local address
		Query port
		Query ID
		Question
  	  before applying DNS credibility rules.
	The document will also provide guidelines for resolvers on appropriate
		use of out-of-zone data in answers.

The document can not require the use of either multiple ports or addresses as
that is an operational issue and should be addressed in a separate document
in DNSOP.

Exact use of the 2119 words above should be tuned by the working group.

Draft Time line:
	Jan 08'th Chair announces document is adopted
	Jan 15'th first WG version
	Feb 15'th final WG document
	Feb 29'th WGLC
	Mar 30'th advance to IESG.

	Olafur the document shepherd for this document 


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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: DNSSEC Hashed Authenticated Denial of Existence
	Author(s)	: B. Laurie, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09.txt
	Pages		: 51
	Date		: 2007-1-8
	
The Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC) introduced the
   NSEC resource record (RR) for authenticated denial of existence.
   This document introduces an alternative resource record, NSEC3, which
   similarly provides authenticated denial of existence.  However, it
   also provides measures against zone enumeration and permits gradual
   expansion of delegation-centric zones.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 16:52:22 2007
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From: Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>
To: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,  remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
References: <20060810200025.GA15656@outpost.ds9a.nl>
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:29:54 +0100
In-Reply-To: <20060810200025.GA15656@outpost.ds9a.nl> (bert hubert's message
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I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this, but I think it's a good
idea if the document clarifies 1123 as well, and encourages name
server operators to provide TCP service (so that TCP can be used as a
fallback to avoid spoofed responses, at least in some cases).

And the document as-is doesn't say much about stub resolvers.  Is this
a problem?  (Typical implementations do not compare source addresses,
for instance, nor do they use random source ports, at least on typical
operating systems.)

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From Tucuman'sreagent's@abilenecpa.com Mon Jan 08 18:14:32 2007
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 18:54:55 2007
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From: Mark Andrews <Mark_Andrews@isc.org>
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:29:54 BST."
             <8764bh8awd.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> 
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> I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this, but I think it's a good
> idea if the document clarifies 1123 as well, and encourages name
> server operators to provide TCP service (so that TCP can be used as a
> fallback to avoid spoofed responses, at least in some cases).
> 
> And the document as-is doesn't say much about stub resolvers.  Is this
> a problem?  (Typical implementations do not compare source addresses,
> for instance, nor do they use random source ports, at least on typical
> operating systems.)

	Typical stub resolvers use whatever etherial port the OS
	gives them.  In a good OS this will be random.

	libresolv/libbind also checks the source address and port
	of the response.

	A stub resolver is also in a good position to use TSIG /
	SIG(0) to establish a cryptographically secure channel to
	the reversive server.

	Mark
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 19:58:26 2007
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To:  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
CC: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>,  remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
References: <200701082348.l08NmgcZ012926@drugs.dv.isc.org>
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bert hubert;

In your draft, it is written that:

    Third party: any host other than the resolver or the intended
    recipient of a question. The third party may have access to a
    random authoritative nameserver, but has no access to packets
    transmitted by the Resolver.

However, I think it should also be assumed that the third party has
no access to packets of authentic answers to the Resolver.

That is, if the third party can read and block the answer packets
and inject a forged answer, there is no security, of course.

I also think birthday attacks should be prevented by using the same
ID and the same source port for all the outstanding queries with the
same question to the same destination.

To avoid outstanding queries, it is too painful to wait very long
time when a query or an answer is lost.

							Masataka Ohta


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 20:14:24 2007
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>,
    remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 Jan 2007 09:52:17 +0900."
             <45A2E741.4090407@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> 
References: <200701082348.l08NmgcZ012926@drugs.dv.isc.org>  <45A2E741.4090407@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> 
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> I also think birthday attacks should be prevented by using the same
> ID and the same source port for all the outstanding queries with the
> same question to the same destination.

this is a fine idea and a wonderful improvement on djb's "16 upstream ports"
idea.  i'll give it a try and i'll let you know how it works.  note that in
the djb design, one would have to hash <qname,qtype,servaddr> into a 20-bit
value of which 16 bits was a query id and 4 bits selected an upstream socket.

> To avoid outstanding queries, it is too painful to wait very long
> time when a query or an answer is lost.

and yet, it's useful to retry, and damaging to retry too soon.  therefore one
ought to wait a short total time before presuming SERVFAIL, but try more than
once within that time period.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 08 21:21:40 2007
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:15:03 +0900
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
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To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
CC:  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>, 
 remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
References: <200701082348.l08NmgcZ012926@drugs.dv.isc.org>  <45A2E741.4090407@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <30806.1168305058@sa.vix.com>
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Paul;

> this is a fine idea and a wonderful improvement on djb's "16 upstream ports"
> idea.  i'll give it a try and i'll let you know how it works.  note that in
> the djb design, one would have to hash <qname,qtype,servaddr> into a 20-bit
> value of which 16 bits was a query id and 4 bits selected an upstream socket.

If "hash <qname,qtype,servaddr>" is already used without additional
hash with, say, timestamps, "using the same ID and the same source
port for all the outstanding queries with the same question to the
same destination" is already done. However, such hash can be computed
by all the attackers that some (pseudo) random value (e.g. microsecond
granularity timestamp of original query) should be used with hash.

In addiotion, as ID is not very long, using multiple ports still
useful to improve security, though to smaller extent.

						Masataka Ohta



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From weptmistyping@absbelgium.com Tue Jan 09 04:37:28 2007
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:37:33 -0060
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From jimrosebrook.com@orthosportinc.com Tue Jan 09 10:41:59 2007
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From: "Robert Brown" <jimrosebrook.com@orthosportinc.com>
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Subject: It is rare opportunity to save so much on generic meds!
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 09 17:02:46 2007
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:53:10 +0100
From: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>
To: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
Message-ID: <20070109215310.GA30088@outpost.ds9a.nl>
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On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 09:52:17AM +0900, Masataka Ohta wrote:
>     Third party: any host other than the resolver or the intended
>     recipient of a question. The third party may have access to a
>     random authoritative nameserver, but has no access to packets
>     transmitted by the Resolver.
> 
> However, I think it should also be assumed that the third party has
> no access to packets of authentic answers to the Resolver.

Indeed, we'll update the draft to state so. It will be posted again
tomorrow, with a bug tracker, wiki and changelog, so it should be easy to
keep track of. This was pioneered by the NSEC3 draft btw, it appears to
work.

> I also think birthday attacks should be prevented by using the same
> ID and the same source port for all the outstanding queries with the
> same question to the same destination.

Indeed, we should improve the wording of the draft that the same question
should not be in flight *with differing* source port/id's, which gives
implementations more room to do the right thing.

Thanks for your comments!

-- 
http://www.PowerDNS.com      Open source, database driven DNS Software 
http://netherlabs.nl              Open and Closed source services

--
to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
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From unfriendlinesstango's@aacc.org Tue Jan 09 19:20:54 2007
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From: "I. Hoover - News Service" <unfriendlinesstango's@aacc.org>
To: <dn@ietf.org>
Subject: Suzanne Somers' Malibu house burns
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:20:51 +0480
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From gerencia@mmehdi.com Tue Jan 09 19:34:09 2007
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Not daring to opposeXVIII. The Northeast and Northwest PassagesShe stretche=
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 10 05:13:23 2007
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Subject: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
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(IPv6 WG CCed sorry all for cross-posting)

Dear namedroppers,

I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be
even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is
a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot
L2 multicast. Even if they could, L2 multicast would wake up every
dormant host. Dormant mode for energy efficiency is very important
in this context. There is also a serious L2-specific signaling cost
associated with dormant mode. (I'm not entering into details.)

Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have
to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth
and energy in the whole network.

These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general
as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach?

It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast.

1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder 
configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address:
  
            link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")

where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted 
that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID.
The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known.

2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name
johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, 
instead of being multicast.

Am I missing something?

Thanks.

pars mutaf

ps: An earlier version of this work proposed the "blind" usage 
of name-based addresses (also called HUMID addresses). It can 
be found here:

http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html



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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:36:02 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:06:38AM +0100,
 Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote 
 a message of 52 lines which said:

> I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) 

Multicast DNS does not imply the Bad (tm) ".local"! Read
draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt (approved by the IESG on 31 Oct 2006 and
stucked in RFC editor queue since, for unknown reasons).

> It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast.
> 
> 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder 
> configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address:
>   
>             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")

It really looks like PNRP :

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/network/p2p/pnrp.mspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNRP


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 10 07:31:07 2007
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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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Pars Mutaf wrote:
 
> I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be
> even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is
> a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot
> L2 multicast.

As was learned with the abandoned attempt of NBMA, link protocols
not being capable of broadcast is useless.

> Even if they could, L2 multicast would wake up every
> dormant host.

That's fine as long as L2 broadcast is infrequent.

Note that L2 broadcast is as costly as L2 multicast.

So, don't bother to say "multicast", when broadcast is harmful which
is the case of CATENET, which is partly why IPv6 failed. IP over 1394
failed, too, because of purposeless attempt to avoid broadcast.

> 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder 
> configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address:
>   
>             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")

And the address is a multicast address joined by all the hosts with
64bithash("johnsmith.local")=64bithash(DNS name).

						Masataka Ohta


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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Reply-To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
To: James Carlson <james.d.carlson@sun.com>
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On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 08:15 -0500, James Carlson wrote:
> Pars Mutaf writes:
> > Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have
> > to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth
> > and energy in the whole network.
> 
> It isn't just multicast DNS that depends on the use of multicast --
> there are many protocols (including neighbor discovery) that will
> either fail to work properly if multicast is outlawed or will need
> modifications or limitations.
> 
> This sounds like a syntax error to me.  The system in question
> apparently wants to use what are effectively point-to-point links but
> is instead modeling as a crippled broadcast-type network.
> 
> I say "apparently," because the proposal below wouldn't work unless
> there's some central node involved.  As part of resolving that IPv6
> link-local address to an L2 address, nodes will send multicast
> neighbor solicitations.  The apparent fact that this doesn't wake
> everyone up means that the network is already partitioned.
> 
> Given that use of multicast typically isn't a privileged operation,
> how does that central node stop someone from draining everyone else's
> batteries anyway, even if this one protocol is fixed?

This threat is probably another good reason for not allowing 
multicast.

>From an abstract point of view (hoping to answer all your concerns
above): if we already know the destination's unicast address, then 
we should not send a multicast query. We should send a unicast query.
This is my proposal. This is the conservative approach IMHO.

As an example, we can take WiMax (IPv6 over WiMax is being standardized
by the 16ng WG). In 16ng, the access router has a list of all nodes.
This corresponds to what you call a central node. DAD 
(duplicate address detection) is achieved 
using unicast. This is work in progress. As for neighbor discovery, 
I agree that it is more reliable over L2 multicast. I hope that the
access router can use it to recover from loss of state, but not 
during normal operation (because it is costly). 16ng WG will decide. 

Now one can say: if the WiMax AR knows knows everything, why not 
register the localname->address bindings also to the AR? 

My answer is that installing DNS in a router is going to far. 
I'm proposing a solution for not doing this. The AR speaks IPv6, 
so lets encode the names into IPv6 addresses.

But again, IMHO, from an abstract point of view, unicast will always
be the conservative approach. I.e. not only for WiMax.


> >             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")
> > 
> > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted 
> > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID.
> > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known.
> [...]
> > http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html
> 
> So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names,
> then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right?

Right. Please let me know if you see a problem with this.

Thanks!
pars


> 


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From: James Carlson <james.d.carlson@sun.com>
To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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Pars Mutaf writes:
> Dot-local DNS is also very useful in MANETs. However, you have
> to flood the network to resolve a name. This consumes bandwidth
> and energy in the whole network.

It isn't just multicast DNS that depends on the use of multicast --
there are many protocols (including neighbor discovery) that will
either fail to work properly if multicast is outlawed or will need
modifications or limitations.

This sounds like a syntax error to me.  The system in question
apparently wants to use what are effectively point-to-point links but
is instead modeling as a crippled broadcast-type network.

I say "apparently," because the proposal below wouldn't work unless
there's some central node involved.  As part of resolving that IPv6
link-local address to an L2 address, nodes will send multicast
neighbor solicitations.  The apparent fact that this doesn't wake
everyone up means that the network is already partitioned.

Given that use of multicast typically isn't a privileged operation,
how does that central node stop someone from draining everyone else's
batteries anyway, even if this one protocol is fixed?

>             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")
> 
> where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted 
> that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID.
> The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known.
[...]
> http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/humid.html

So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names,
then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right?

-- 
James Carlson, Solaris Networking              <james.d.carlson@sun.com>
Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive         71.232W   Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757   42.496N   Fax +1 781 442 1677


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 10 12:22:02 2007
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Subject: WGLC: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:15:19 +0100
To: IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
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Dear Colleagues,


You may well have seen the release of draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09.

With the release of this draft, so have the chairs been informed, the
issue list is cleaned up and the work is seen as sufficient quality
to be forwarded to the IESG. Hence, this message opens up a last call
for "DNSSEC Hashed Authenticated Denial of Existence". The last call
will terminate Sunday February 11 around 23:00 HST.

Please review the draft and put that fact on record through a post to
the mailing-list. If there are any new issues please bring them
forward. If old issues have been closed unsatisfactory feel fee to
make note of those but do not expect old discussions to be rehashed.

The bar is at 5 folk going on record for having done thorough review.

For those that wrote implementations please report your experiences
while implementing. This is very helpful in the report for the AD, it
indicates protocol quality.

Editorial nits can be send directly to the editors but please CC
dnsext-chairs at tools dot ietf dot org.


The document history can be found at:

http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3


Happy reading!


--Olaf & Olafur

-----------------------------------------------------------
Olaf M. Kolkman
NLnet Labs
http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/




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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:06:38 +0100."
             <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> 
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> ...
> These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general
> as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach?
> 
> It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast.
> 
> 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder 
> configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address:
>   
>             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")
> 
> where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted 
> that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID.
> The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known.

you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that
matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask.  and you'll have to cope with hash
collisions, however improbable they may be.

> 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name
> johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, 
> instead of being multicast.
> 
> Am I missing something?

L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP.  if your L2 does not
support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some kind
of distinguished destination address that operates a location brokerage for
other services.  if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost
then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal.

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--0-1448377452-1168455604=:6109
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On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT  co-chair wrote:

> We want to ask the members of the working group if they are willing=20
> to adapt this item as a working group document intended for=20
> standards track.

No.

> If you do not support this work on the standards track but would not
> have problems with seeing it as informational or experimental then
> please indicate so.

I don't want to see DNSSEC SO adopted as a WG document at all.

-- Sam
--0-1448377452-1168455604=:6109--

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 10 17:45:51 2007
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To:  pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
CC: James Carlson <james.d.carlson@sun.com>,  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, 
 ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr>	 <17828.59150.365134.221293@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1168442066.23741.30.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr>
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Pars Mutaf wrote:

> This threat is probably another good reason for not allowing 
> multicast.

Wrong.

As I already stated reasons, there is no point not allowing
broadcast.

						Masataka Ohta


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From ndonfsq@enginepower.com Thu Jan 11 01:13:18 2007
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floated Indian Cluster

attempted media suggests closer terrible


------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C73560.B662A880
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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
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@page Section1
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</head>

<body lang=3DEN link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><img width=3D302 height=3D221 id=3D"_x0000_i1025"
src=3D"cid:pic01.gif@01C73560.B662A880"></span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>floated Indian =
Cluster<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>attempted media suggests =
closer terrible<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 11 09:39:08 2007
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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
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To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
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Organization: INT Evry
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:30:26 +0100
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Hi all,

Thank you all for your comments!

Alex and Julien: thanks for clarifications on 16ng.
Stephane and Brian Carpenter: I used the term .local with 
no particular reason. If recent advances showed that it is 
unnecessary. That's OK for me. I'm not even sure if my
proposal needs to be "local". I can also reach other subnets
in theory (if my host has learned the list of neighboring 
subnets).

I also take note of RFC4541. Thanks.

But I still don't see why I would send a multicast query
if I know the destination's unicast address. Sending the DNS
query directly to the destination may be useful. For example, 
the host may have already resolved the destination's
MAC address (through multicast). But the user is trying many 
different names... (for example). 

My question to Paul Vixie:



On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 17:58 +0000, Paul Vixie wrote:
> > ...
> > These problems make me think that dot-local usage is not as general
> > as it should be in IPv6. What about this approach?
> > 
> > It works exactly as multicast DNS, except that there is no multicast.
> > 
> > 1. Let the responder's DNS name be "johnsmith.local". The responder 
> > configures a name-based link-local IPv6 address:
> >   
> >             link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")
> > 
> > where hash is SHA1, and '|' means concatenation. It can be noted 
> > that 64bithash("johnsmith.local") is the IPv6 interface ID.
> > The link-local subnet prefix is constant and well-known.
> 
> you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that
> matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. 


Is this an important limitation? (I'm asking the question)


>  and you'll have to cope with hash
> collisions, however improbable they may be.


Fortunately, there is no problem with that. If a given name-based
address was accidentally configured the query will be silently 
dropped.



> > 2. When the initiator user (or application) enters the name
> > johnsmith.local, the DNS request is sent to the above address, 
> > instead of being multicast.
> > 
> > Am I missing something?
> 
> L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP.  if your L2 does not
> support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some kind
> of distinguished destination address that operates a location brokerage for
> other services.  if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost
> then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal.

I have no problem with that.  

Thanks

pars


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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
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Comments: In-reply-to Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
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Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> writes:

> I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be
> even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is
> a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot
> L2 multicast.

Who cares what happens at L2? That is not a concern to IP.

If you are really saying that over a WiMax network, IP multicast is
not supported, well, I would expect that this will be a problem for
any application that relies on multicast. Presumably the market will
sort out whether this is a problem or not.

Thomas

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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:55:44 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr>
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 03:30:26PM +0100,
 Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote 
 a message of 81 lines which said:

> I used the term .local with no particular reason. If recent advances
> showed that it is unnecessary.

Not unecessary: bad. If I'm correct, it is bad because everyone would
have a ".local" and merging of two organizations would become a
nightmare. It is quite easy and cheap to get a real domain name so
every organization, even non connected, should use one.

> I'm not even sure if my proposal needs to be "local". I can also
> reach other subnets in theory

The domain name in use has nothing to do with the fact that the
protocol is routable or single-link. Different layers.

> But I still don't see why I would send a multicast query if I know
> the destination's unicast address. Sending the DNS query directly to
> the destination may be useful.

Again, *read* draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt, the use of unicast is
clearly possible (section 2.4).


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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
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To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 09:40 -0500, Thomas Narten wrote:
> Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> writes:
> 
> > I believe that dot-local DNS (also called multicast DNS) will be
> > even more useful in the future. However, I suspect that there is
> > a problem. For example, in WiMax, a cellular standard, nodes cannot
> > L2 multicast.
> 
> Who cares what happens at L2? That is not a concern to IP.

But we can build new applications comfortably if we know that the
signaling and energy costs were minimized ?
(I mean regardless of L2 specific details)  

pars


> If you are really saying that over a WiMax network, IP multicast is
> not supported, well, I would expect that this will be a problem for
> any application that relies on multicast. Presumably the market will
> sort out whether this is a problem or not.
> 
> Thomas


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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
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On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 15:55 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 03:30:26PM +0100,
>  Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote 
>  a message of 81 lines which said:
> 
> > I used the term .local with no particular reason. If recent advances
> > showed that it is unnecessary.
> 
> Not unecessary: bad. If I'm correct, it is bad because everyone would
> have a ".local" and merging of two organizations would become a
> nightmare. It is quite easy and cheap to get a real domain name so
> every organization, even non connected, should use one.

Thanks for the clarification. 


> > I'm not even sure if my proposal needs to be "local". I can also
> > reach other subnets in theory
> 
> The domain name in use has nothing to do with the fact that the
> protocol is routable or single-link. Different layers.
> 
> > But I still don't see why I would send a multicast query if I know
> > the destination's unicast address. Sending the DNS query directly to
> > the destination may be useful.
> 
> Again, *read* draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt, the use of unicast is
> clearly possible (section 2.4).

But it is still multicast DNS?
pars


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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:30:26 +0100."
             <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> 
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com>  <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> 
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> My question to Paul Vixie:
>
> > you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that
> > matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. 
> 
> Is this an important limitation? (I'm asking the question)

i think so, but it's a subjective matter.  we're funded to do some early
DHCPv6 work at the moment, showing that at least one large company in the
world doesn't think stateless autoconfig is the right way to go.  i think
there's also reason to believe that the "/64 per LAN" ideology might be
tied to the stateless autoconfig ideology.  (DHCPv6 and /112's work fine.)

> > you'll have to cope with hash collisions, however improbable they may be.
> 
> Fortunately, there is no problem with that. If a given name-based address
> was accidentally configured the query will be silently dropped.

that sounds like a problem, to me.  why isn't it a problem?

> > L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP.  if your L2 does
> > not support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some
> > kind of distinguished destination address that operates a location
> > brokerage for other services.  if your L2 supports broadcast but at
> > significant power cost then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS
> > DISCOVER proposal.
> 
> I have no problem with that.  

yo, bill!

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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:32:41 +0000
From: bmanning@karoshi.com
To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
Cc: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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> > > L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP.  if your L2 does
> > > not support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some
> > > kind of distinguished destination address that operates a location
> > > brokerage for other services.  if your L2 supports broadcast but at
> > > significant power cost then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS
> > > DISCOVER proposal.
> > 
> > I have no problem with that.  
> 
> yo, bill!
> 

	yes?
	you mean the DISCOVER ID that is -still- in the RFCED queue?	
	(and has been in one form or another for the past eight years?)
	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 11 13:55:05 2007
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: bmanning@karoshi.com
cc: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:32:41 GMT."
             <20070111183241.GC29716@vacation.karoshi.com.> 
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> > > > ... if your L2 supports broadcast but at significant power cost then i
> > > > suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS DISCOVER proposal.
> > > 
> > > I have no problem with that.  
> > 
> > yo, bill!
> 
> 	yes?

yes, you.

> 	you mean the DISCOVER ID that is -still- in the RFCED queue?	

yes, that one.

> 	(and has been in one form or another for the past eight years?)

yes, it has.

> 	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
> 	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.

because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8 years, and the idea
is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current proposed RFC is
experimental, and most importantly, because the need for it will continue to
resurface until we push it over the top of the hill and roll it down to the
town.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 11 16:31:34 2007
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From: bmanning@karoshi.com
To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com, pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,
   ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
Message-ID: <20070111212301.GA31575@vacation.karoshi.com.>
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <60272.1168537982@sa.vix.com> <20070111183241.GC29716@vacation.karoshi.com.> <69870.1168541446@sa.vix.com>
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> > 	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
> > 	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
> 
> because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8 years, and the idea
> is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current proposed RFC is
> experimental, and most importantly, because the need for it will continue to
> resurface until we push it over the top of the hill and roll it down to the
> town.

	sigh... let me ramp up here.
	do you want the code  (8.1.2 based and haq'ed into 9.3.1 ) or do you want to 
	start fresh?

	the text will be pumped out shortly.

--bill

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 11 18:11:46 2007
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From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
To: bmanning@karoshi.com
cc: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:23:01 GMT."
             <20070111212301.GA31575@vacation.karoshi.com.> 
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <60272.1168537982@sa.vix.com> <20070111183241.GC29716@vacation.karoshi.com.> <69870.1168541446@sa.vix.com>  <20070111212301.GA31575@vacation.karoshi.com.> 
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> 	do you want the code (8.1.2 based and haq'ed into 9.3.1 ) or do you
> 	want to start fresh?

put both up for ftp and share the url's here, and isc among others will take
a look at them.

> 	the text will be pumped out shortly.

thanksly.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 11 21:23:11 2007
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To:  pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr
CC: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>,  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, 
 ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: IPv6 design flaw to force all-nodes multicast
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr>	 <200701111440.l0BEeB09018425@cichlid> <1168530937.11364.38.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr>
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Pars Mutaf wrote:

>>Who cares what happens at L2? That is not a concern to IP.

> But we can build new applications comfortably if we know that the
> signaling and energy costs were minimized ?
> (I mean regardless of L2 specific details)  

With the obvious example of you,

            link-local subnet prefix | 64bithash("johnsmith.local")

supporting a L3 multicast address over broadcast L1 is just as
costly as supporting a L3 unicast address over broadcast L1,
regardless of L2 specific details.

Wireless L2 protocols not supporting L3 multicast is just poor.

In addition, wireless L2 protocols can also naturally support
L2 broadcast. If power consumption of terminals but not central
stations is the issue, broadcast can be issued only from (or
relayed by) central stations and can be rate limited.

Thus, all the properly designed L3 or upper protocols can enjoy
properly designed L2 multicast at any rate and L2 broadcast maybe
with rate limitation. It has nothing specific to mDNS.

However, there is an IPv6 design flaw that all the nodess join
all-nodes multicast, which is just a common multicast address
for L2. The flaw was derived from a misconception that multicast
were less costly than broadcast, though broadcast is less costly
than multicast.

All-nodes multicast can cost a lot if someone use it frequently.

For example, ND is specified with:

   o  MinRtrAdvInterval 0.03 seconds

That is, as IPv6 is not propderly designed, L2 under it MAY
suppress multicast entirely and SHOULD supress the all-nodes
multicast address.

A dirty workaround is to supress rate of L2 address of all-nodes
multicast and never use the same L2 address for other rate-unlimited
multicast addresses.

						Masataka Ohta


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 12 03:39:12 2007
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:28:21 +0100
From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
To: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Cc: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>,
	namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 05:41:26PM +0100,
 Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote 
 a message of 31 lines which said:

> > Again, *read* draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt, the use of unicast is
> > clearly possible (section 2.4).
> 
> But it is still multicast DNS?

I really do not understand you. Try in French :-) Because, obviously,
if it is unicast, it is not multicast :-)

Also, it is not really DNS, it is LLMNR (same packet format, many
similar concepts but a different protocol).


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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
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[DNS opcode DISCOVER]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Paul Vixie wrote:
> yes, it has.
>
>> 	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
>> 	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
>
> because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8 years, and the idea
> is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current proposed RFC is
> experimental, and most importantly, because the need for it will continue to
> resurface until we push it over the top of the hill and roll it down to the
> town.

The problem was, AFAIR, that allocating opcodes requires a Standards
Action.  No experimental spec can do that.  If DISCOVER is to be 
revived it will need to use one of other publication processes.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings

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On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 11:36:31AM +0200, Pekka Savola wrote:
> [DNS opcode DISCOVER]
> 
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Paul Vixie wrote:
> >yes, it has.
> >
> >>	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
> >>	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
> >
> >because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8 years, and the idea
> >is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current proposed RFC is
> >experimental, and most importantly, because the need for it will continue 
> >to
> >resurface until we push it over the top of the hill and roll it down to the
> >town.
> 
> The problem was, AFAIR, that allocating opcodes requires a Standards
> Action.  No experimental spec can do that.  If DISCOVER is to be 
> revived it will need to use one of other publication processes.
> 
> -- 
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the


	of course, the justification for requiring a Standards Track action
	for the allocation of an opcode was never questioned.  the impediment
	that such a requirement places on development is so onerous that many
	folks just ignore the IETF's strictures and don't bring their work 
	to that forum.  Who was it that promoted an RFC on getting allocations
	for experimental use?  Can't remember who that was, but it was a little
	to late.   DISCOVER is in no shape to be a full-fledged Standards track
	item.  It IS an idea that is worthy of further use/experimentation to 
	see if it can be integrated into a data-driven networking architecture.
	And for that reason, it is worthy of an opcode assignment.  But, thats
	my opinion and we know what that is worth.

--bill

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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 17:56 +0200, RÃ©mi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> Le mercredi 10 janvier 2007 17:14, Pars Mutaf a Ã©crit :
> > > So, the proposal is that if the hash collides for different names,
> > > then "johnsmith.local" must rename himself, right?
> >
> > Right. Please let me know if you see a problem with this.
> 
> My understanding of James remarks is that your proposal merely moves the 
> problem away from DNS to Neighbor Discovery, but does not solve the 
> core issue at all, which is that some kind of multicast/broadcast is 
> needed for non-point-to-point IPv6 links.

Hi Remi, 

(Sorry for the delay, I'm trying to respond to each mail but
I rate limited myself)

The main idea of my proposal was:

"If it works using unicast, then we *really* don't care what 
happens at L2."

Is it multicast capable or not? It is poor design or not? Is it 
costly or not ? (in terms of energy and signaling)... All these 
questions would disappear. That was my point.


But folks say: multicast is a MUST. I can't really argue 
against that.

pars

(I CCed again namedroppers without your permission, supposing 
that is not a problem for you)


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On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 17:53 +0000, Paul Vixie wrote:
> > My question to Paul Vixie:
> >
> > > you'll also have to cope with networks that aren't using EUI64 or for that
> > > matter aren't using a 64-bit netmask. 
> > 
> > Is this an important limitation? (I'm asking the question)
> 
> i think so, but it's a subjective matter.  we're funded to do some early
> DHCPv6 work at the moment, showing that at least one large company in the
> world doesn't think stateless autoconfig is the right way to go.  i think
> there's also reason to believe that the "/64 per LAN" ideology might be
> tied to the stateless autoconfig ideology.  (DHCPv6 and /112's work fine.)
> 

Yes I'm from mobile/stateless school :-)

> > > you'll have to cope with hash collisions, however improbable they may be.
> > 
> > Fortunately, there is no problem with that. If a given name-based address
> > was accidentally configured the query will be silently dropped.
> 
> that sounds like a problem, to me.  why isn't it a problem?

Quick reminder:

The responder configured IPv6 address from hash(name).
The query is sent to that unicast address.

For example John wants to reach Carol. But Carol isn't here. 
Instead there is David. And accidentally hash(Carol)=hash(David).

The DNS query(Carol) will be received by David. 
David can silently drop it. Or he can respond: I'm not Carol. 

I missed something?

Thanks
pars


> > > L2 broadcast will have to work in order to support ARP.  if your L2 does
> > > not support broadcast at all then i don't know what to suggest beyond some
> > > kind of distinguished destination address that operates a location
> > > brokerage for other services.  if your L2 supports broadcast but at
> > > significant power cost then i suggest we revive bmanning's old DNS
> > > DISCOVER proposal.
> > 
> > I have no problem with that.  
> 
> yo, bill!


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Subject: RE: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)]
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From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>
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I am really confused here.

First, I know that multicast has a base in the IETF. Is there at this =
point any real prospect of widespread use? Multicast violates the =
principle of keeping the core of the Internet as simple and unchanging =
as possible. Multicast is also the amplification mechanism to beat all =
amplification mechanisms.=20

A distributed caching model achieves the same effect with considerably =
less impact on the core Internet infrastructure. Instead of doing =
branching in the network core we do it at the next level up in the =
stack. This allows us to build in security in a coherent way. It also =
eliminate the probably bogus assumption that all participants are =
interacting synchronously. This is not the case in video-on-demand due =
to pause features.

What is it that is being proposed? Is it a feature that is to assist =
deployment of multicast or a feature that has some other advantage that =
happens to use multicast?
=20

I would like to see a concise statement of objectives and requirements =
that does not reference a previous post in the thread.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pekka Savola
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:37 AM
> To: Paul Vixie
> Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com; pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr;=20
> namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
> Subject: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without=20
> multicast (in IPv6 only)]
>=20
> [DNS opcode DISCOVER]
>=20
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Paul Vixie wrote:
> > yes, it has.
> >
> >> 	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
> >> 	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
> >
> > because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8=20
> years, and the=20
> > idea is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current=20
> > proposed RFC is experimental, and most importantly, because=20
> the need=20
> > for it will continue to resurface until we push it over the=20
> top of the=20
> > hill and roll it down to the town.
>=20
> The problem was, AFAIR, that allocating opcodes requires a=20
> Standards Action.  No experimental spec can do that.  If=20
> DISCOVER is to be revived it will need to use one of other=20
> publication processes.
>=20
> --=20
> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
>=20
> --
> to unsubscribe send a message to=20
> namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe'=20
> in a single line as the message text body.
> archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>
>=20

--
to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
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archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>



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Subject: Governor Grey
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[]

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Female, character in doctors dilemma single most given.
Articlein last modified january. Capriati tennis, black cannon, 
connelly coolidge davidson, playboy.
Playboy playmate month august? Cannon connelly coolidge davidson 
playboy playmate, month august, ellison?
Details registered trademark wikimedia, foundation inc.
Finnigan canadian garner granholm governor, grey.
Modified january, all text, available under terms gnu!
Garner granholm governor grey hanson hawkins australian model.
Pages beginning, namesviews article discussion this page.
United states since early has remained less so include.
Warnes walcott edit jennijenni leejenni menojenni murrayedit alsoall pages.
But it became popular, after george bernard shaw used.
Create links linkcite articlein.
Common first name for females, cornish variant of guinevere?
Hudson johnston jones jason lopez morrison paige.
George, bernard shaw used main female character in. Last modified 
january, all text available.
Vinohibir irish, findabair welsh. January all text available under 
terms. Include jen jenny, and people with jenni also aniston.
Remained less so include, jen jenny and people with.
Was fairly uncommon but it became. Love hewitt, holliday hoque singer 
former hudson johnston jones. In doctors dilemma single most given 
baby girls united! Gwenhwyfar, was fairly uncommon but it became 
popular. Wikipedia, the free to navigation searchfor, other, uses.
Linkcite articlein last modified, january.
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.0.20060106201507.01fcfee8@alkhabara.com.0" width=464 height=344 alt="[]">
<br>
Of guinevere, deriving ultimately from.<br>
Phantom via brythonic vinohibir irish findabair welsh. Ultimately<br>
from white phantom via brythonic vinohibir irish. Most given baby<br>
girls united states, since early has!<br>
Doctors, dilemma single most given, baby girls united.<br>
Female, character in doctors dilemma single most given.<br>
Articlein last modified january. Capriati tennis, black cannon,<br>
connelly coolidge davidson, playboy.<br>
Playboy playmate month august? Cannon connelly coolidge davidson<br>
playboy playmate, month august, ellison?<br>
Details registered trademark wikimedia, foundation inc.<br>
Finnigan canadian garner granholm governor, grey.<br>
Modified january, all text, available under terms gnu!<br>
Garner granholm governor grey hanson hawkins australian model.<br>
Pages beginning, namesviews article discussion this page.<br>
United states since early has remained less so include.<br>
Warnes walcott edit jennijenni leejenni menojenni murrayedit alsoall pages.<br>
But it became popular, after george bernard shaw used.<br>
Create links linkcite articlein.<br>
Common first name for females, cornish variant of guinevere?<br>
Hudson johnston jones jason lopez morrison paige.<br>
George, bernard shaw used main female character in. Last modified<br>
january, all text available.<br>
Vinohibir irish, findabair welsh. January all text available under<br>
terms. Include jen jenny, and people with jenni also aniston.<br>
Remained less so include, jen jenny and people with.<br>
Was fairly uncommon but it became. Love hewitt, holliday hoque singer<br>
former hudson johnston jones. In doctors dilemma single most given<br>
baby girls united! Gwenhwyfar, was fairly uncommon but it became<br>
popular. Wikipedia, the free to navigation searchfor, other, uses.<br>
Linkcite articlein last modified, january.</body>
</html>

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--=====================_6566031==.REL--





From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 12 14:28:49 2007
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:22:38 -0800
To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>,
        "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>, "Paul Vixie" <paul@vix.com>
From: Ted Hardie <hardie@qualcomm.com>
Subject: RE: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in
 IPv6 only)]
Cc: <bmanning@karoshi.com>, <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>,
        <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>, <ipv6@ietf.org>
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At 10:43 AM -0800 1/12/07, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote:
>I am really confused here.
>
>First, I know that multicast has a base in the IETF. Is there at this point any real prospect of widespread use? Multicast violates the principle of keeping the core of the Internet as simple and unchanging as possible. Multicast is also the amplification mechanism to beat all amplification mechanisms.

There is ongoing (okay, possibly petering out) discussion on the NANOG list at
the moment on this topic, related to "internet video" (the NANOG archives
are at http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/ .  The threads are
"Network end users to pull down 2 gig" and
"Internet Video: The Next Wave of Massive Disruption to the US Peering Ecosystem".)

One of the points made early on by Sean Donelan is that there isn't a
bright line here where multicast is useful above and isn't useful below.
To quote one of his points:

Multicast doesn't have to be real-time. If you collect interested subscribers over a longer time period, e.g. scheduled downloads over the next hour, day, week, month, you can aggregate more multicast receivers through the same stream. TiVo collects its content using a broadcast schedule.

I believe you will find the rest of the thread gives an interesting set of perspectives
on how multicast fits in among other technologies; particularly, it gives you a
sense of how one operational community might use to smooth spikes in usage.

					Ted


>A distributed caching model achieves the same effect with considerably less impact on the core Internet infrastructure. Instead of doing branching in the network core we do it at the next level up in the stack. This allows us to build in security in a coherent way. It also eliminate the probably bogus assumption that all participants are interacting synchronously. This is not the case in video-on-demand due to pause features.
>
>What is it that is being proposed? Is it a feature that is to assist deployment of multicast or a feature that has some other advantage that happens to use multicast?
> 
>
>I would like to see a concise statement of objectives and requirements that does not reference a previous post in the thread.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
>> [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pekka Savola
>> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:37 AM
>> To: Paul Vixie
>> Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com; pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr;
>> namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
>> Subject: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without
>> multicast (in IPv6 only)]
>>
>> [DNS opcode DISCOVER]
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Paul Vixie wrote:
>> > yes, it has.
>> >
>> >>	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
>> >>	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
>> >
>> > because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8
>> years, and the
>> > idea is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current
>> > proposed RFC is experimental, and most importantly, because
>> the need
>> > for it will continue to resurface until we push it over the
>> top of the
>> > hill and roll it down to the town.
>>
>> The problem was, AFAIR, that allocating opcodes requires a
>> Standards Action.  No experimental spec can do that.  If
>> DISCOVER is to be revived it will need to use one of other
>> publication processes.
>>
>> --
>> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves king, yet the
>> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
>> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings
>>
>> --
>> to unsubscribe send a message to
>> namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> in a single line as the message text body.
>> archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>
>>
>
>--
>to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
>the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 12 14:34:13 2007
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Subject: RE: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)]
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:29:50 -0800
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Thread-Topic: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)]
Thread-Index: Acc2fym/61dP33zaQ3+FkTBYC2T5LgAAIzoQ
From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>
To: "Ted Hardie" <hardie@qualcomm.com>, "Pekka Savola" <pekkas@netcore.fi>,
        "Paul Vixie" <paul@vix.com>
Cc: <bmanning@karoshi.com>, <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>,
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I still don't understand what the plan is.

There is a lot of Internet broadband content distribution going on =
today. I do not see where this proposal fits in.

Is this the choice of the right tool or 'have hammer, will use it' or =
'have always wanted this particular hammer and looking for excuse to get =
one' ?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Hardie [mailto:hardie@qualcomm.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:23 PM
> To: Hallam-Baker, Phillip; Pekka Savola; Paul Vixie
> Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com; pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr;=20
> namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without=20
> multicast (in IPv6 only)]
>=20
> At 10:43 AM -0800 1/12/07, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote:
> >I am really confused here.
> >
> >First, I know that multicast has a base in the IETF. Is=20
> there at this point any real prospect of widespread use?=20
> Multicast violates the principle of keeping the core of the=20
> Internet as simple and unchanging as possible. Multicast is=20
> also the amplification mechanism to beat all amplification mechanisms.
>=20
> There is ongoing (okay, possibly petering out) discussion on=20
> the NANOG list at the moment on this topic, related to=20
> "internet video" (the NANOG archives are at=20
> http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/ .  The threads are=20
> "Network end users to pull down 2 gig" and "Internet Video:=20
> The Next Wave of Massive Disruption to the US Peering Ecosystem".)
>=20
> One of the points made early on by Sean Donelan is that there=20
> isn't a bright line here where multicast is useful above and=20
> isn't useful below.
> To quote one of his points:
>=20
> Multicast doesn't have to be real-time. If you collect=20
> interested subscribers over a longer time period, e.g.=20
> scheduled downloads over the next hour, day, week, month, you=20
> can aggregate more multicast receivers through the same=20
> stream. TiVo collects its content using a broadcast schedule.
>=20
> I believe you will find the rest of the thread gives an=20
> interesting set of perspectives on how multicast fits in=20
> among other technologies; particularly, it gives you a sense=20
> of how one operational community might use to smooth spikes in usage.
>=20
> 					Ted
>=20
>=20
> >A distributed caching model achieves the same effect with=20
> considerably less impact on the core Internet infrastructure.=20
> Instead of doing branching in the network core we do it at=20
> the next level up in the stack. This allows us to build in=20
> security in a coherent way. It also eliminate the probably=20
> bogus assumption that all participants are interacting=20
> synchronously. This is not the case in video-on-demand due to=20
> pause features.
> >
> >What is it that is being proposed? Is it a feature that is=20
> to assist deployment of multicast or a feature that has some=20
> other advantage that happens to use multicast?
> >=20
> >
> >I would like to see a concise statement of objectives and=20
> requirements that does not reference a previous post in the thread.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org=20
> >> [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pekka Savola
> >> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:37 AM
> >> To: Paul Vixie
> >> Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com; pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr;=20
> >> namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ipv6@ietf.org
> >> Subject: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without=20
> multicast (in=20
> >> IPv6 only)]
> >>
> >> [DNS opcode DISCOVER]
> >>
> >> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Paul Vixie wrote:
> >> > yes, it has.
> >> >
> >> >>	why, under $DIETIES green earth would you want to push a dead
> >> >>	technology?  The IESG is dead-set against this.
> >> >
> >> > because the IESG has turned over N times during those 8
> >> years, and the
> >> > idea is still solid and useful and interesting, and the current=20
> >> > proposed RFC is experimental, and most importantly, because
> >> the need
> >> > for it will continue to resurface until we push it over the
> >> top of the
> >> > hill and roll it down to the town.
> >>
> >> The problem was, AFAIR, that allocating opcodes requires a=20
> Standards=20
> >> Action.  No experimental spec can do that.  If DISCOVER is to be=20
> >> revived it will need to use one of other publication processes.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pekka Savola                 "You each name yourselves=20
> king, yet the
> >> Netcore Oy                    kingdom bleeds."
> >> Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A=20
> Clash of Kings
> >>
> >> --
> >> to unsubscribe send a message to
> >> namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe'
> >> in a single line as the message text body.
> >> archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >to unsubscribe send a message to=20
> namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with=20
> >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
> >archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>
>=20
>=20

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Measures for making DNS more resilient against forged answers
	Author(s)	: R. van Mook, B. Hubert
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-forgery-resilience-00.txt
	Pages		: 22
	Date		: 2007-1-12
	
The current internet climate poses serious threats to the Domain Name
   System.  In the interim period before the DNS protocol can be secured
   more fully, measures can already be taken to make 'spoofing' a
   recursing nameserver many orders of magnitude harder.

   Even a cryptographically secured DNS benefits from having the ability
   to discard bogus answers quickly, as this potentially saves large
   amounts of computation.

   By describing certain behaviour that has previously not been
   standardised, this document sets out how to make the DNS more
   resilient against accepting incorrect answers.  This document updates
   RFC1034.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-forgery-resilience-00.txt

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To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
Cc: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,
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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
Message-ID: <20070113130541.GA16232@vacation.karoshi.com.>
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <20070111145544.GA15771@nic.fr> <1168533686.11364.60.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <20070112082821.GA22673@nic.fr>
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On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 09:28:21AM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 05:41:26PM +0100,
>  Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr> wrote 
>  a message of 31 lines which said:
> 
> > > Again, *read* draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt, the use of unicast is
> > > clearly possible (section 2.4).
> > 
> > But it is still multicast DNS?
> 
> I really do not understand you. Try in French :-) Because, obviously,
> if it is unicast, it is not multicast :-)

	unicast is a degenerative case of multicast.

> Also, it is not really DNS, it is LLMNR (same packet format, many
> similar concepts but a different protocol).

	LLMNR is not DNS mostly 'cause the IESG mandated it.
	one could easly see this as DNS on a different port#.

--bill

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From: bmanning@karoshi.com
To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>
Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
Message-ID: <20070113131423.GA16306@vacation.karoshi.com.>
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com> <1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <60272.1168537982@sa.vix.com> <20070111183241.GC29716@vacation.karoshi.com.> <69870.1168541446@sa.vix.com> <20070111212301.GA31575@vacation.karoshi.com.> <10383.1168556624@sa.vix.com>
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:03:44PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote:
> > 	do you want the code (8.1.2 based and haq'ed into 9.3.1 ) or do you
> > 	want to start fresh?
> 
> put both up for ftp and share the url's here, and isc among others will take
> a look at them.

	i think i will defer for the moment.  the code uses OPCODE 5,
	which, if seen in the wild would further antagonise the IESG.

	

> 
> > 	the text will be pumped out shortly.
> 
> thanksly.

	the last iteration, castrated and pacified for IESG/IETF consumption.
	---------------------------------------------------------------------


Network Working Group                                       Bill Manning
draft-manning-opcode-discover-02.txt                              ep.net
Expires: May 2006                                             Paul Vixie
                                                                     ISC
                                                        16 November 2005


                 DISCOVER: Supporting Multicast DNS Queries

   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
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   Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

Abstract

   This document describes the DISCOVER opcode, an experimental
   extension to the Domain Name System (DNS) to use multicast queries
   for resource discovery.  A client multicasts a DNS query using the
   DISCOVER opcode and processes the multiple responses that may
   result.

1. Introduction

   In the standard Domain Name System (DNS) [3] [4], queries are always
   unicast using the QUERY opcode.  The TBDS research project, funded
   under DARPA grant F30602-99-1-0523, explored the use of multicast
   DNS [3][4] queries for resource discovery.  Multicast queries may
   return multiple replies, while the standard DNS QUERY operation [5]
   expects a single reply.  Instead of extending the QUERY
   opcode, the project developed and tested a new query operation,
   DISCOVER, that is designed to accommodate multiple responses from a
   multicast query.  This memo documents the processing rules for
   DISCOVER, for possible incorporation in a future revision of the DNS
   specification.

2. DISCOVER Processing Rules

   A requester will send a DISCOVER query message to a multicast
   destination address, with some particular multicast scope.  The
   requester must be prepared to receive multiple replies from multiple
   responders, although we expect that there will be a single reply
   per responder.

   DISCOVER responses (i.e., response messages from DISCOVER queries)
   have standard Answer, Authority, and Additional sections.  For
   example, the DISCOVER response is the same as the response to a
   QUERY operation.  Zero-content answers should not be sent, to avoid
   badly formed or unfulfilled requests.  Responses should be sent to
   th unicast address of the requester, and the source address should
   reflect the unicast address of the responder.  DISCOVER responses
   may echo the request's Question section or leave it blank, just as
   for QUERY.

   DISCOVER works like QUERY, except:

	1. The Question section of a DISCOVER operation contains
	   <QNAME=zonename,QTYPE=SOA> tuples, if the section is
           present.

 	   Within TBDS, this structure was augmented with:
	   <QNAME=service,QTYPE=SRV>.  While this worked, it would be
	   cleaner to ask the SRV question in a separate pass, and any
	   future work should take this into consideration.

        2. If QDCOUNT equals 0, then only servers willing to do recursion
	   should answer; other servers must silently discard a DISCOVER 
           request with QDCOUNT equals 0. 

        3. if QDCOUNT is not equal to 0, then only servers that are 
	   authoritative for the zones named by some QNAME should answer.

     Hence, replies to DISCOVER queries will always be authoritative or
     else have RA (Recursion Available) set.

3. Using DISCOVER Queries

3.1  Performing Host Lookups

   To perform a hostname lookup using DISCOVER, a node could:

     o  Compute the zone name of the enclosing in-addr.arpa, ip6.int, or
        ip6.arpa domain.

     o  DISCOVER whether any in-scope server(s) are authoritative for
        this zone.

                If so, query these authoritative servers for local
                in-addr/ip6 names.

     o  If not, DISCOVER whether there are recursive servers available.

                If so, query these recursive servers for local
                in-addr/ip6 names.

        The requester can determine from the replies whether there are
	any DNS servers that are authoritative (or support recursion)
	for the zone.

     o  Once the host's FQDN is known, repeat the process to
        discover the closest enclosing authoritative server for
        this local name.

     o  Cache all NS and A data learned in this process, respecting TTL's.

3.2 Performing Service Lookups

   To lookup a service name using DISCOVER, the following steps may be
   used:

     o  Use DISCOVER as outlines in Section 3.1 to perform
	gethostbyaddr() and then gethostbyname() on one's own
	link-local address.  This gives a list of local authoritative
        servers.

     o  Assume that the closest enclosing zone for which an
        authoritative server responds to an in-scope DISCOVER message is
        this host's "parent domain", and compute the SRV name as

	       _service._transport.*.parentdomain.

	This is a change to the definition as defined in RFC 1034 [3].
	A wildcard label ("*") in the QNAME used in a DNS message with
	op-code DISCOVER should be evaluated with special rules: the
	wildcardshould match any label for which the DNS server data is
	authoritative.  For example 'x.*.example.com.' would match
	'x.y.example.com.' and 'x.yy.example.com.', provided that the
	server was authoritative for 'example.com.'

     o  Finally, send a SRV query for this SRV name to the discovered
        local authoritative servers, to complete the getservbyname() call.
        
	This call returns a structure that can be populated by response
	values, as follows:

        s_name    The name of the service, "_service" without the
                  preceding underscore.

        s_aliases The names returned in the SRV RRs in replies
                  to the query.

        s_port    The port number in the SRV RRs replies to the
                  query.  If these port numbers disagree - one
                  of the port numbers is chosen, and only those
                  names which correspond are returned.

        s_proto   The transport protocol from named by the
                  "_transport" label, without the preceding
                  underscore.


3.3  Using DISCOVER for Disconnected Names

   DISCOVER allows discovery of a host (for example, a printer offering
   LPD services) whose DNS server answers authoritatively for a domain
   name that hasn't been delegated to it, but is defined within some
   local scope.  Since DISCOVER is explicitly defined to discover
   undelegated zones for tightly-scoped queries, this behavior isn't a
   violation of DNS's coherency principles.   Note that a responder to
   DISCOVER might not be traditional DNS software, it could be
   special-purpose software.

   DISCOVER usage for disconnected networks with no authoritative
   servers can be achieved using the following conditions.

          o Hosts run a "stub server" that acts as though its FQDN
            were a zone name.

          o The computed SOA gives the host's FQDN as the MNAME, "." as
	    the ANAME, seconds-since-1Jan2000 as the SERIAL, and low
	    constants for EXPIRE and the other SOA timers.

          o  NS is used as the host's FQDN.

          o  The glue is computed as the host's link-local address, or
 	     hosts may run a  "DNS stub server" that acts as though its
	     FQDN were a zone name.
        
   The rules governing the behavior of this stub server are given 
   elsewhere [1] [2].

   Such stub servers should answer DISCOVER packets for its zone, and
   will be found by the iterative "discover closest enclosing authority
   server" by DISCOVER clients, in either the gethostbyname() or SRV
   cases described above.  Note that stub servers answer only with
   zone names which exactly match QNAME's, not with zone names which
   are owned by QNAME's.

4. IANA Considerations

   The IANA will need to assign a numeric value for the DISCOVER opcode.

5. Security Considerations

   No new security considerations are known to be introduced with a new
   DNS query operation.  However, using multicast for service discovery
   has the potential for denial of service from flooding attacks.  It
   may also be possible to enable deliberate misconfiguration of
   clients simply by running a malicious DNS server that falsely claims
   to be authoritative for delegations.  One possible way to mitigate
   this threat is to use credentials, such as CERT resource records
   within an RR set.  The TBDS project took this approach.  TBDS did
   not directly utilize DNSSEC and so possible interactions with
   DNSSEC aware/capable servers are unknown.

6. Acknowledgments

   This material was generated in discussions on the mdns maili
   list hosted by Zocalo in March 2000 and updated by discussions in 	
   September/October 2003 on a closed mailing list.  David Lawrence, 
   Scott Rose, Stuart Cheshire, Bill Woodcock, Erik Guttman were 
   active contributors. Suzanne Woolf was part of the original
   implementation team and an invaluable sanity checker.

7. References

[1]  Esibov, L., Aboba, B., Thaler, D., "Multicast DNS",
        Work in Progress, November 2000.

[2]  Woodcock, B., Manning, B., "Multicast Domain Name Service",
        Work in Progress, August 2000.

[3]  Mockapetris, P., "DOMAIN NAMES - CONCEPTS AND FACILITIES",
        RFC 1034, November 1987.

[4]  Mockapetris, P., "DOMAIN NAMES - IMPLEMENTATION AND SPECIFICATION",
        RFC 1035, November 1987.

[5]  QUERY opcode -- defined in section 3.7, 4.3, and section 5 of RFC
	1034 and in section 4.1.1 of RFC 1035.


Authors' Addresses

   Bill Manning
   PO 12317
   Marina del Rey, CA. 90295

   Paul Vixie
   950 Charter Street
   Redwood City, CA 94063


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Acknowledgment

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To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <pbaker@verisign.com>
CC: Ted Hardie <hardie@qualcomm.com>, Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>, 
 Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>,
  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,  ipv6@ietf.org,  bmanning@karoshi.com
Subject: Re: DNS opcode DISCOVER [Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in
 IPv6 only)]
References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD370105A34B@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>
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Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote:
> I still don't understand what the plan is.
>=20
> There is a lot of Internet broadband content distribution
> going on today. I do not see where this proposal fits in.

"Content Distribution" in the form of Akamai and other such solutions
are GREAT for Big Companies(tm).

But Big Companies(tm) are not the only users of the Internet!


Multicast allows EVERY user of the Internet to very easily use a small
amount of bandwidth to send one single copy into the Internet and have
tens of thousands of other users enjoy it.

You could argue "just upload your video's up to youtube". Some users
don't want their works to be owned by third parties, some people want to
provide it in different formats. The Internet is about freedom, freedom
in what you do and how you do it. Having multicast available to end
users gives extra freedom to the users of the Internet.

Multicast will allow that for anything without having to play around in
the application stack and having to make application/protocol specific
caches for every sort of application. Of course we could just do
everything over HTTP, but hey where is the fun in that?


Also, what is the largest cost for ISP's anyway associated by those
traffic hogs like P2P? They are transmitting the same kind of data over
and over over their transit links.

Multicast would solve that as the data is only sent ones and fanned out
to the end users that want it. Read: your data goes over the transit
once, and only once: that actually saves money... and that is where one
of the catches lies, do transit providers want ISP's to save money!? :)

For warez-content distribution it seems that NNTP is nowadays the clear
winner anyway, with companies solely dedicated to providing access to
the TeraBytes of "NNTP Caches" that they have set up.


The big problem with multicast of course is the configuration of it and
the trust one has to have in its peers, as it can create a lot of havoc
when something goes bad, see for nice cruel bedtime horror stories the
various mbone,m6bone etc lists ;)


Greets,
 Jeroen

--
Additional lesson on how to send bypass greylists, especially:
telnet sa.dom.com 25
EHLO purgatory.unfix.org
250-sa.dom.com
250-PIPELINING
250-SIZE 102400000
250-ETRN
250-STARTTLS
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-8BITMIME
250 DSN
MAIL FROM: <jeroen@unfix.org>
250 2.1.0 Ok
RCPT TO: <p...@dom.com>
450 4.7.1 <p...@dom.com>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisted for 1
minutes

And then send your mail ;)


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--
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From padillagerardmok@hinet.net Sat Jan 13 14:24:02 2007
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Reply-To: "Cammy Boyd" <padillagerardmok@hinet.net>
From: "Cammy Boyd" <padillagerardmok@hinet.net>
To: "Luann" <imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Delois" <l1vpn@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Shari" <ion-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Lynnette Ruiz" <grow-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Ignacio Watson" <idwg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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	"Samara" <bridge-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Jacque" <mailman-bounces@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Adena Gilbert" <sip-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Adolfo Watkins" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Sick of your fat
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 05:22:02 +1000
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=60Saturday? Impossible!'     cuddly A few moments neck after, parcel exi=
stence the funnel of the =60Henrietta'  Passepartout effect attempt was c=
rushed; it bucket overwhelmed delicious him to loharass edge =60Do not cu=
rly let the fires go down,' scale replied Mr Fogg. =60   

pop skirt authority picture =60Perhaps,' replied Mr Fogg simply.    The t=
rack cover outgoing up to this time spell remember had reached its highes=
t     Passepartout adorable grew increase more history and more debt impa=
tient as they   
=60At least, snake there serve are run two hate champions in presence of 


=60Yes, yes, yes, nuptial replace forsake sea yes!' cried Passepartout. =60=
You havshaggy join journey Towards press noon Phileas Fogg, having ascert=
ained theiThe party crossed prepare the sanguineous Hudson fight in night=
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pe oaths, gentle a bomb app 
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    At ten air sent o'clock at vanish night the train, slap stopped at Fo=
rt  =60What an idea!' he side cake choke said to himself. =60Why double d=
id my ma   &nbsp

=60It would be prudent salt deliberately warmly for us to rich retire,' s=
aid Fix, 

relation Passepartout mug had sneeze seized his press master by the colla=
r,heal =60Where stage are we?' copper damage he repeated, with purple fac=
e. =60SeThe advertisement next day vivacious was the 12th of surround tin=
tinnabulary December. From seven=60Pirate!' cried after ok Captain Speedy=
 =60I rescue have worm sent for y      

=60An instrument English smash faithfully subject--' shine began Mr Fogg.=
  While the drain worthy serpentine Frenchman was stridden absorbed clear=
 in the sta  Several passengers rotten had object got off at cautiously s=
nore Green Fiver, and          

astragatar money He did not side finish his moor sentence; for a terrific=
 hub    Mr Fogg love hurt left the hotel flame sand alone, after giving P=
assepa    

Phileas Fogg, false thus change silver wreck kidnapped, without having ti=
me=60Pickaroon!'He report seemed about to give stage damage jagged up all=
 hope, when he espie=60 - Sir,' continued Mr Fogg, =60to ask desire size =
worn last you to sell m    

It comparison was a band of lost shy voters coming to given the rescue of=
 th Aouda judge seized a hover hilarious moment when Mr gun Fogg was asle=
ep to t   invention =60That trousers Proctor on this train!' thrust victo=
rious cried Fix. =60Well, re    

offend The match clock indicated a ovine quarter haunt before nine when h=
eoven =60No! By country all new discussion the devils, no!'Phileas Fogg h=
ailed sang a boat, selection watch spotless got into it, and soon=60But f=
all I eager shall laid be defiant obliged to burn her.'          

hate =60Yankee!' weight back exclaimed Mr Fogg, end darting a contemptuou=
=60And besides,' exist added mysteriously Passepartout, piscatorial plant=
 =60I'll take char  avian government =60Mr Fix,' resumed fold pick Aouda,=
 =60Mr Fogg will allow no on 

=60Englishman!' returned mark button the dust other. park =60We will meet=
 ag   

Phileas Fogg sip place had accomplished friend the hammer journey round t=
h=60Burn the "Henrietta"!'=60The enter hate captain?' wood baby asked Mr =
Fogg.=60Yes; at shy least the upper part of driving fiction well her. The=
 coal has  
=60When you please.'  =60You help are right, madam,' thread replied Fix; =
transport big =60a meeting be     frame =60And,' hair disgust added Passe=
partout, visit =60that would play the ga         &nbsp

=60What theory plane thumb sign is your name?'=60Burn my powder vessel!' =
bet cried radiate bite Captain Speedy, who could  
       


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Subject: RE: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:32:53 -0800
Message-ID: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D064033D1950@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <20070113130541.GA16232@vacation.karoshi.com.>
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thread-topic: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
thread-index: Acc3FFTPiEbiJzwRQPSyonYCirw6QwANBp/A
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr><98793.1168451932@sa.vix.com><1168525826.11364.32.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr><20070111145544.GA15771@nic.fr><1168533686.11364.60.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr><20070112082821.GA22673@nic.fr> <20070113130541.GA16232@vacation.karoshi.com.>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
To: <bmanning@karoshi.com>, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
CC: <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>, <ipv6@ietf.org>
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> > I really do not understand you. Try in French :-) Because,
obviously,
> > if it is unicast, it is not multicast :-)
>=20
> 	unicast is a degenerative case of multicast.

Bill, this is emphatically not true for high speed wireless links, such
as the upcoming IEEE 802.11n standard.=20

In high speed wireless networks, the physical layer gets tuned between
sender and receiver, resulting in huge gains in transmission quality.
You can only apply a fraction of these tunings to multicast traffic.=20

There are also some nasty interactions between multicast and power
saving. To save power, the stations sleep most of the time, wake up
occasionally, and poll the server for any queued data. For multicast,
you have to either guarantee that all stations wake up at the same time,
which is hard, or accept to effectively replicate the multicast packet
for each station.

Transmission tuning and power saving are both very desirable. The
natural consequence is to try avoid multicast operation whenever
possible.

-- Christian Huitema


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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jan 13 14:54:52 2007
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From: bmanning@karoshi.com
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>,
   namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 11:32:53AM -0800, Christian Huitema wrote:
> > > I really do not understand you. Try in French :-) Because,
> obviously,
> > > if it is unicast, it is not multicast :-)
> > 
> > 	unicast is a degenerative case of multicast.
> 
> Bill, this is emphatically not true for high speed wireless links, such
> as the upcoming IEEE 802.11n standard. 
> 
> In high speed wireless networks, the physical layer gets tuned between
> sender and receiver, resulting in huge gains in transmission quality.
> You can only apply a fraction of these tunings to multicast traffic. 

	re wireless... unless you have tightly coupled directional
	antennas, high speed wireless (one presumes that "high speed"
	in this context is the 802.11n draft standard) there is 
	a "footprint" of signal propogation that -any- receiver
	within that "footprint" may receive.

> There are also some nasty interactions between multicast and power
> saving. To save power, the stations sleep most of the time, wake up
> occasionally, and poll the server for any queued data. For multicast,
> you have to either guarantee that all stations wake up at the same time,
> which is hard, or accept to effectively replicate the multicast packet
> for each station.

	for multicast, you can assume that all intended receivers are
	"awake" for your application design, but that is not (to my understanding)
	an intrinsic component of multicast.
 
> Transmission tuning and power saving are both very desirable. The
> natural consequence is to try avoid multicast operation whenever
> possible.

	The first i agree with, the second depends on design goals.

--bill

> 
> -- Christian Huitema
> 

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jan 13 18:30:40 2007
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:23:14 +0100
From: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-forgery-resilience-00.txt
Message-ID: <20070113232313.GA22240@outpost.ds9a.nl>
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On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:50:01PM -0500, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:

> 	Title		: Measures for making DNS more resilient against forged answers
> 	Author(s)	: R. van Mook, B. Hubert
> 	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-forgery-resilience-00.txt
> 	Pages		: 22
> 	Date		: 2007-1-12

Hi everybody,

Our progress in updating this draft can be followed on our 'trac' wiki,
which can be found here: http://adsl-xs4all.ds9a.nl/cgi-bin/resilience.fcgi

This is the same technology as used for the NSEC3 draft.

Any issues you may have with the draft can of course be discussed on the
list, but we might also file them on the trac, and you are cordially invited
to do the same, it is one of the best ways of grabbing our attention. But
the list is of course the prime place for discussion.

Thanks for your attention.

	Bert & Remco

-- 
http://www.PowerDNS.com      Open source, database driven DNS Software 
http://netherlabs.nl              Open and Closed source services

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CC: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>, 
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  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,  ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
References: <20070113130541.GA16232@vacation.karoshi.com.> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D064033D1950@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <20070113194924.GA18476@vacation.karoshi.com.>
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bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:

>>There are also some nasty interactions between multicast and power
>>saving. To save power, the stations sleep most of the time, wake up
>>occasionally, and poll the server for any queued data. For multicast,
>>you have to either guarantee that all stations wake up at the same time,
>>which is hard, or accept to effectively replicate the multicast packet
>>for each station.

> 	for multicast, you can assume that all intended receivers are
> 	"awake" for your application design, but that is not (to my understanding)
> 	an intrinsic component of multicast.

It is merely that each station is required to wake up when
packets to the station are transmitted, regardless of whether
the packets are unicast, multicast or broadcast.

Thus, the amount of power consumption of a station increases
proportional to the number of multicast addresses the station
joins.

It's not a problem if the station is running streaming applications,
which, anyway, consume considerable amount of power.

However, frequently multicast RAs to all-nodes multicast address
are really annoying.

							Masataka Ohta

PS

A real difference between unicast and multicast/broadcast of CSMA/CA
wireless link such as 802.11 is that the latter can not be ACKed and
is unreliable.


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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:16:31 +0000
From: bmanning@karoshi.com
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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> As a result, it seems fairly effective in ensuring
> that multicast does not wake up unnecessary
> neighbors. It does not solve all problems -- if
> you were to run LLMNR over it you would still
> be sending to every node, because only one
> multicast address is used. But then again,
> I'm not sure how big practical problem this
> is. I hope the providers are not setting up
> their 802.16 networks so that people can
> find printer.local in the Tokyo subnet...

	and this would be bad in what way?  :)

> Anyway, if we think of the hash approach independently
> of your 802.16 use case, I think there are still several
> significant problems. As others have mentioned, you
> still need something that allows ND to work, and it,
> in turn is based on multicast at IP level. Perhaps
> more fundamentally, I think a local unmanaged naming
> system should be able to live with collisions. As your
> scheme combines the name space to the IP space
> this becomes very difficult. For starters, to allow
> multiple similar names, you would have to disable
> DAD and change ND, and I suspect it would not work
> with current TCP and applications. Also, there
> are operational issues such as inability to search
> except for exact match.

	DISCOVER works with namespace collisions.
	fuzzy matching -after- the collision is detected
	requires more than just the FQDN and address.  When
	we did the original work on this (a decade ago) in 
	the TBDS project, we used a local crypto key as a third
	discriminator.  

	Neither DISCOVER or TBDS is v6-specific.

> 
> Jari
> 

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From: Pars MUTAF <Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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Selon Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>:

> Pars,
>
> Various possible DNS designs are possible. However,
> I want to go back to your suggestion that multicasting
> will cause significant inefficiencies when running over
> WiMax and 802.16.
>

Thank you very much for this mail. Please see below:


> It might, indeed -- Christian's note about the high
> speed wireless designs was right on. But the question
> is whether it will actually be the case for WiMax as
> it is being defined and used. As you may know, there has
> been active work in the 16ng working group during the
> summer and autumn, and that has resulted in a
> number of changes to the way that people originally
> planned to run this. In particular, the WG has
> considered issues relating to waking up dormant
> hosts. My understanding is that their current
> designs do NOT have that problem. For instance,
> they plan to recommend a point to point like link
> model where the host's ND or other link local
> multicast traffic does not impact other hosts.
> And there is a plan on employing RFC 4541 (MLD
> snooping) where 802.16 is run as an Ethernet.
> As a result, it seems fairly effective in ensuring
> that multicast does not wake up unnecessary
> neighbors.

Great news. This means that ND and DAD will work
without waking up all dormant hosts. If I understand
correctly.


> It does not solve all problems -- if
> you were to run LLMNR over it you would still
> be sending to every node, because only one
> multicast address is used. But then again,
> I'm not sure how big practical problem this
> is. I hope the providers are not setting up
> their 802.16 networks so that people can
> find printer.local in the Tokyo subnet...

I'm not sure why LLMNR uses only one multicast address.
I see serious problems with that. A LLMNR query would
wake up every dormant host, in this case. Why this may
be a serious problem?

Firstly, the multicast name resolution idea that started
with ZEROCONF (if I'm correct), has the potential to find
many new and popular applications. This means that many
users may use it in the future, especially in wireless
broadband networks. However, this also means that it may
create a lot of multicast queries that wake up every host
and consume a lot of energy.

From this point of view, I suspect that LLMNR's potentials
are underestimated by its own design.
(I mean: if a LLMNR query must be forwarded to every node)

Secondly, nothing prevents a user from trying different
names again and again. Each query would wake up many
dormant hosts. Can we call this a DoS attack? I'm not
even sure. He/she is doing that for fun perhaps. But the
consequences would be bad if a LLMNR query must be
forwarded to all (probably dormant) devices.

>
> Anyway, if we think of the hash approach independently
> of your 802.16 use case, I think there are still several
> significant problems. As others have mentioned, you
> still need something that allows ND to work, and it,
> in turn is based on multicast at IP level. Perhaps
> more fundamentally, I think a local unmanaged naming
> system should be able to live with collisions. As your
> scheme combines the name space to the IP space
> this becomes very difficult. For starters, to allow
> multiple similar names, you would have to disable
> DAD and change ND, and I suspect it would not work
> with current TCP and applications. Also, there
> are operational issues such as inability to search
> except for exact match.

Pushing my own scheme is not my intent in this discussion.
(I wanted feedback, and I had a lot and I thank you all)
However, the good news that you have announced in your mail
are also good news for my proposal.

My proposal *needs* ND for address resolution, and DAD
for address (i.e. name) collision detection. If these protocols
will run without waking up every dormant host, then this is
also great for me.

I will think more about your other comments (I'm not
sure to understand). Thanks!

pars

ps: I'm not sure if folks realize the costs of waking up
every dormant host at the same time. It is not only an
energy consumption problem. It is also a signaling
problem. The most efficient dormant is achieved using a
mechanism called "paging". This is a generic protocol. To
wake up a dormant host, you have to search it in many cells.
This is for one host. You can probably imagine what would
happen if you try to page every dormant host.


>
> Jari
>
>




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[]

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Taking, familys them ends, zoo loses.<br>
Group led robin williams. Already member sign in.<br>
Anyone thought march penguins, was! Need mean, do worthless.<br>
Experience daughter loved, parts danced became somewhat terrified at.<br>
Feels beat stop emperor finding, heart song cute as.<br>
Viewed original soundtrack flushed away open. Doesnt, weigh down<br>
best. Book feedback or question service contact provide.<br>
Orders returnssee shipping rates returns policyneed. Stufftrack<br>
recent, ordersview orders returnssee shipping rates returns, policyneed.<br>
Are join today already, member sign in. Preached go church, one<br>
thing, amazed?<br>
Darker tone rest, dues ex machina save day. Clubbed flick any<br>
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Fishing expedition norma jean meets. Happy feet movie showtimes, george.<br>
Falls apart handled subtlety head! Some, tense moments girl. Species<br>
does mind sets out figure why fish. Parts, danced became, somewhat<br>
terrified, at great. Mantel gods until, too tight collar!<br>
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--=====================_705294==.REL--





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Subject: RE: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:32:07 -0800
Message-ID: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D064033D19BC@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
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thread-topic: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr><45AA0D9D.4080705@piuha.net> <1168800701.45aa7bbdc4fdb@imp.int-evry.fr>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>
To: Pars MUTAF <Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr>, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
CC: <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>, <ipv6@ietf.org>
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> I'm not sure why LLMNR uses only one multicast address.
> I see serious problems with that. A LLMNR query would
> wake up every dormant host, in this case. Why this may
> be a serious problem?

There was actually a reasonably thorough discussion of this issue during
the design of LLMNR. You can find it in the list archive. At one time,
there was a design proposal to use multiple multicast groups. The
group-id would be derived from the queried name. The proposal was
eventually discarded.

Part of the reason was implementation complexity. A hash based solution
requires to write the name in canonical form before hashing. Canonical
functions are hard to get right, especially with international names,
and could cause significant interoperability issues.=20

Another reason was the general overhead of multiple multicast groups.
Many station interfaces can only handle a limited number of groups, and
fall back to promiscuous mode and software filtering after that number.
In switched environments, switches have to maintain routing state for
the multiple groups. The multiple groups may reduce the overhead of
individual queries, but there is a significant management overhead.

Given that, it was decided to just keep it simple, and use exactly one
group.

-- Christian Huitema

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From: Mark Andrews <Mark_Andrews@isc.org>
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only) 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:06:57 +0900."
             <45A9D691.4060506@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> 
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> PS
> 
> A real difference between unicast and multicast/broadcast of CSMA/CA
> wireless link such as 802.11 is that the latter can not be ACKed and
> is unreliable.

	Multicast is unreliable, period.  This is independent of the
	media being used.

	Mark

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 14 19:26:17 2007
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 Christian Huitema <huitema@windows.microsoft.com>,
  namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>, 
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Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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Mark Andrews wrote:

>>A real difference between unicast and multicast/broadcast of CSMA/CA
>>wireless link such as 802.11 is that the latter can not be ACKed and
>>is unreliable.
> 
> 
> 	Multicast is unreliable, period.  This is independent of the
> 	media being used.

If you assume L4 ack and retransmission, you are right.

However, even at L4, unidirectional UDP unicast is just as reliable
as unidirectional UDP multicast.

At L2, Ethernet multicast is as reliable as Ethernet unicast and
802.11 unicast, because there are CD or ACK and retransmissions.

OTOH, 802.11 multicast with no CD, ACK nor retransmission is a
lot less reliable.

							Masataka Ohta


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From grogers@watchmans.com Mon Jan 15 09:33:41 2007
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From: "Deloris Rogers" <grogers@watchmans.com>
To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Question about OEM v's Upgrade
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:33:21 -0180
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And the wide arrowhead the road itselfXVI. Laying a Ghost: The Jeannette an=
d the FramWhat? What can you do?Oh, I know. The snow. The effective snowAnd=
 all at once it is the meadow I walked in at ten,The ordinary, wide scene w=
hich beginsDim, and die tonight?In the woods, close by,Cuts out of its widt=
h (81). Unfairthe foul pole relaxes. She's raged all afternoonThis perfecti=
on, this absence.II. List of Franklin Search PartiesXIX. Jones Sound and Be=
aufort SeaBronze the sky, with noSeems reflected in the infinite of the lam=
ps.As if your human shape were what the stormwatching calisthenics from the=
 grandstands.Or by the loud hand of painting, always puts.To watch me watch=
 drowned snow lift from the lake.


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<DIV>And the wide arrowhead the road itself<br>XVI. Laying a Ghost: The Jea=
nnette and the Fram<br>What? What can you do?<br>Oh, I know. The snow. The =
effective snow<br>And all at once it is the meadow I walked in at ten,<br>T=
he ordinary, wide scene which begins<br>Dim, and die tonight?<br>In the woo=
ds, close by,<br>Cuts out of its width (81). Unfair<br>the foul pole relaxe=
s. She's raged all afternoon<br>This perfection, this absence.<br>II. List =
of Franklin Search Parties<br>XIX. Jones Sound and Beaufort Sea<br>Bronze t=
he sky, with no<br>Seems reflected in the infinite of the lamps.<br>As if y=
our human shape were what the storm<br>watching calisthenics from the grand=
stands.<br>Or by the loud hand of painting, always puts.<br>To watch me wat=
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From bbulgewsxoui@ocn.ne.jp Mon Jan 15 11:21:25 2007
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From: "Lala" <bbulgewsxoui@ocn.ne.jp>
To: "Yael Bell" <ietf-62-request@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Jetta Simmons" <imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Wilford Jordan" <l1vpn@lists.ietf.org>,
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	"Yessenia Flores" <sip-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Zoe Barnes" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Looking for change
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 05:15:23 -1100
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=60Five minutes fit confess eager more,' father said Andrew Stuart.  ball=
 =60Sir,' sharp said Captain Speedy, who made was split now deeply int   =
night =60I succeed have forgo hate a purpose in asking,' resumed Fix. =60=
Is itbitter =60Ah,' said wonder Mr Fogg, =60is treat that place brake whe=
re we see th    

=60You refuse?'    =60Sir,' x-ray said Mr paper plant cost Fogg, very pol=
itely; =60after our mee   =60Really!'   
=60I refuse.'     


The chiropteran five dug gentlemen looked at each bite stridden other. Th=
eir anx=60Yes.'dead mass =60It degree shrill is absolutely necessary.'cur=
ve =60Can slept tease blunt we enter the harbour?'  
jump =60Consider that blushing I've sped said nothing,' group said Fix; =60=
and =60Will you dream appoint a nail meeting amount slap for six months h=
ence?'    =60Why order low not lighted guide ten years hence?'   &nbsp

division foolishly wooly =60Yes; politely let us drink!' 

=60I correct wouldn't idea give up my four cheer thousand slow of the bet=
,'=60Not sweet wed under rid bumpy three hours. Only at high tide.'servan=
t =60And, identify if your soak journey had long not been interrupted byd=
ark =60Stay,' replied reading Mr teaching Fogg bit calmly, without betray=
ing      

Passepartout felt square himself polish yielding sane crime more and more=
 t     =60I thought say six knelt months,' returned Phileas ant impress F=
ogg; =60and I  =60All this is hover an pleasure evasion,' began stole cri=
ed Stamp Proctor. =60No   

=60At account last!' roll structure said Fix, show seeing Passepartout un=
conscio         =60Yes; space clock with eleven hours to spare card dark =
before the steame      


The clock indicated send substance eighteen hearing condition minutes to =
nine.Queenstown is the list bang Irish cause port at lip which the transa=
tl=60Good! you grieving polish are therefore cause cerebral twenty hours =
behind. TwelPhileas Fogg structure view counted on gaining roll twelve gr=
ab hours in th   

sprout And, dreamt after paying smell blood his bill, Fix left the tavern=
  wound =60Very dorsal good. You are going courageous story to New York?=
' =60No.'     

The players took verse victorious up fork their cards, but body could not=
 keeThe dreamt =60Henrietta' blown busy entered Queenstown part Harbour a=
t onestrove destruction cuddly rhyme =60On foot?' asked Mr Fogg.The party=
 went on learning shore at greedily hair once. Fix harbor was greatly t  =
    

rice While hair linen these turn events were passing at the opium-house=60=
To Chicago?'  =60No.' 
=60It is in love the tempt condemned interest of my fraternal journey - a=
 part of m     
=60Seventeen clock fake minutes to nine,' juggle balance said Thomas Flan=
agan,shop Phileas Fogg at last upheld gun stop disembarked on the Liverpo=
ol=60No; on night a arch sledge,' charming replied Fix. rate =60On a sled=
ge withBut suppose at this ovine family moment house Fix came up, put his=
 hand upon 
attraction The purchases made, they card dress returned marry to the hote=
l, wh    =60To Omaha?'     =60What exist food difference is feeling it ma=
nager to you? Do you know Plum Cr         &nbsp

Had he got been capable showed of attack begin being astonished at anythi=
n=60I am.'    
    


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jump =60Consider that blushing I've sped said nothing,' group said Fix; =60=
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The players took verse victorious up fork their cards, but body could not=
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rice While hair linen these turn events were passing at the opium-house=60=
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=60It is in love the tempt condemned interest of my fraternal journey - a=
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=60Seventeen clock fake minutes to nine,' juggle balance said Thomas Flan=
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 15 12:10:14 2007
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From: Pars Mutaf <pars.mutaf@int-evry.fr>
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Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
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On=20Wed,=202007-01-10=20at=2017:56=20+0200,=20R=C3=A9mi=20Denis-Courmont=20=
wrote:
>=20Le=20mercredi=2010=20janvier=202007=2017:14,=20Pars=20Mutaf=20a=20=C3=A9=
crit=20:
>=20>=20>=20So,=20the=20proposal=20is=20that=20if=20the=20hash=20collides=20=
for=20different=20names,
>=20>=20>=20then=20"johnsmith.local"=20must=20rename=20himself,=20right?
>=20>
>=20>=20Right.=20Please=20let=20me=20know=20if=20you=20see=20a=20problem=20=
with=20this.
>=20
>=20My=20understanding=20of=20James=20remarks=20is=20that=20your=20proposa=
l=20merely=20moves=20the=20>=20problem=20away=20from=20DNS=20to=20Neighbor=
=20Discovery,=20but=20does=20not=20solve=20the=20
>=20core=20issue=20at=20all,=20which=20is=20that=20some=20kind=20of=20mult=
icast/broadcast=20is=20
>=20needed=20for=20non-point-to-point=20IPv6=20links.

Hi=20Remi,=20

(Sorry=20for=20the=20delay,=20I'm=20trying=20to=20respond=20to=20each=20ma=
il=20but
I=20rate=20limited=20myself)

The=20main=20idea=20of=20my=20proposal=20was:

"If=20it=20works=20using=20unicast,=20then=20we=20*really*=20don't=20care=20=
what=20
happens=20at=20L2."

Is=20it=20multicast=20capable=20or=20not?=20It=20is=20poor=20design=20or=20=
not?=20Is=20it=20
costly=20or=20not=20?=20(in=20terms=20of=20energy=20and=20signaling)...=20=
All=20these=20
questions=20would=20disappear.=20That=20was=20my=20point.


But=20folks=20say:=20multicast=20is=20a=20MUST.=20I=20can't=20really=20arg=
ue=20
against=20that.

pars

(I=20CCed=20again=20namedroppers=20without=20your=20permission,=20supposin=
g=20
that=20is=20not=20a=20problem=20for=20you)


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Just, hope we dont cause out.=0D
Never, have enough keep, up with jones, just.=0D
Month august is smack dab in middle mile hwy?=0D
Yes fish rest year enjoys south hinch?=0D
This cant wait, click switch as.=0D
Miles scenic back roads al, ga tn.=0D
That hot rat race timesso enhance.=0D
Me places who visits, webcams lyrics fur.=0D
Myspace at my place says.=0D
Just, hope we dont cause out.=0D
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<DIV>Just, hope we dont cause out.</DIV>
<DIV>Never, have enough keep, up with jones, just.</DIV>
<DIV>Month august is smack dab in middle mile hwy?</DIV>
<DIV>Yes fish rest year enjoys south hinch?</DIV>
<DIV>This cant wait, click switch as.</DIV>
<DIV>Miles scenic back roads al, ga tn.</DIV>
<DIV>That hot rat race timesso enhance.</DIV>
<DIV>Me places who visits, webcams lyrics fur.</DIV>
<DIV>Myspace at my place says.</DIV>
<DIV>Just, hope we dont cause out.</DIV>
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 15 13:32:17 2007
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:23:51 +0100
From: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>
To: Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, remco@virtu.nl
Subject: stub resolvers Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
Message-ID: <20070115182351.GA2142@outpost.ds9a.nl>
References: <20060810200025.GA15656@outpost.ds9a.nl> <8764bh8awd.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
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On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 10:29:54PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this, but I think it's a good
> idea if the document clarifies 1123 as well, and encourages name
> server operators to provide TCP service (so that TCP can be used as a
> fallback to avoid spoofed responses, at least in some cases).

Hi Florian,

I don't think RFC 1123 is within the scope of DNSEXT! We could insert
something non-normative, but I'm unsure what it would achieve.

> And the document as-is doesn't say much about stub resolvers.  Is this
> a problem?  (Typical implementations do not compare source addresses,
> for instance, nor do they use random source ports, at least on typical
> operating systems.)

I'd be inclined to say that anything we care to recommend for a full
resolver would also go for a stub resolver. The only difference, according
to Olafur, is that a stub resolver can only talk to specified other servers,
and not to the world.

This point has been flagged as 'TBD' in the draft. 

Btw, some stub resolvers don't even use random IDs...

	Bert

-- 
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 15 15:44:49 2007
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Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,  remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: stub resolvers Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
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* bert hubert:

> I don't think RFC 1123 is within the scope of DNSEXT! We could insert
> something non-normative, but I'm unsure what it would achieve.

RFC 1123 updates RFC 1034 and 1035 (in section 6.1), and this part is
certainly in scope.  Actually, it's been updated before (at least de
facto, if not explicitly).

> Btw, some stub resolvers don't even use random IDs...

Yeah, I know, and I really wonder if it's worth going through the
trouble of fixing them.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 15 16:13:10 2007
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From: bert hubert <bert.hubert@netherlabs.nl>
To: Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>
Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, remco@virtu.nl
Subject: Re: stub resolvers Re: RFC proposal on DNS spoofing prevention
Message-ID: <20070115210655.GA10545@outpost.ds9a.nl>
References: <20060810200025.GA15656@outpost.ds9a.nl> <8764bh8awd.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> <20070115182351.GA2142@outpost.ds9a.nl> <8764b8m3bn.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de>
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On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 09:40:12PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> RFC 1123 updates RFC 1034 and 1035 (in section 6.1), and this part is

Not sure if there is reciprocity though.

> > Btw, some stub resolvers don't even use random IDs...
> 
> Yeah, I know, and I really wonder if it's worth going through the
> trouble of fixing them.

It is a far less explored thing - I think XP w/o service packs still uses
the ID 1, and 2 for any second simultaneous query. So my feelings are it
might be worth while to also mention stub resolvers as they receive very
little attention.

	Bert

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http://netherlabs.nl              Open and Closed source services

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From diaphragm'segalitarianism's@abengroep.nl Mon Jan 15 21:09:58 2007
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:09:56 +0180
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Harris Exploration Hits Gold!

Inside sources from the survey site said that HXPN has made
a major discovery.  Word is that results show a 12.5 gm/T
rating on the property.  With onsite fittings able to 
process 100 tons a day it equates to yields of 1250 gm/day.
At current market prices this will generate yearly revenues of over $10mil.

Taking into attention both the size and the high soil
ratings this gives Harris Exploration a book price of roughly $5.00 which
we have pegged as our target price.

Harris Exploration

Sym: HXPN
Current Price:     $1.62
Sho rt Term Tar get:  $5.00

This news will hit the street very soon and send this issue
flying.  We advise our readers to get in now and divest at
the tar get price.Recomme\ndation: think




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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:07:32 +0100
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http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis

This experiment needs a designated expert, and Ed Lewis has graciously 
agreed to fulfill that role. Unless I hear strong objection otherwise, 
please consider him appointed to this task for the duration of the 
experiment. Thank you Ed!

- Mark

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 16 12:41:44 2007
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[ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by
   a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K.  
   With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore 
   delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. 
   Please fix your subscription addresses. ]

Pars,

Various possible DNS designs are possible. However,
I want to go back to your suggestion that multicasting
will cause significant inefficiencies when running over
WiMax and 802.16.

It might, indeed -- Christian's note about the high
speed wireless designs was right on. But the question
is whether it will actually be the case for WiMax as
it is being defined and used. As you may know, there has
been active work in the 16ng working group during the
summer and autumn, and that has resulted in a
number of changes to the way that people originally
planned to run this. In particular, the WG has
considered issues relating to waking up dormant
hosts. My understanding is that their current
designs do NOT have that problem. For instance,
they plan to recommend a point to point like link
model where the host's ND or other link local
multicast traffic does not impact other hosts.
And there is a plan on employing RFC 4541 (MLD
snooping) where 802.16 is run as an Ethernet.
As a result, it seems fairly effective in ensuring
that multicast does not wake up unnecessary
neighbors. It does not solve all problems -- if
you were to run LLMNR over it you would still
be sending to every node, because only one
multicast address is used. But then again,
I'm not sure how big practical problem this
is. I hope the providers are not setting up
their 802.16 networks so that people can
find printer.local in the Tokyo subnet...

Anyway, if we think of the hash approach independently
of your 802.16 use case, I think there are still several
significant problems. As others have mentioned, you
still need something that allows ND to work, and it,
in turn is based on multicast at IP level. Perhaps
more fundamentally, I think a local unmanaged naming
system should be able to live with collisions. As your
scheme combines the name space to the IP space
this becomes very difficult. For starters, to allow
multiple similar names, you would have to disable
DAD and change ND, and I suspect it would not work
with current TCP and applications. Also, there
are operational issues such as inability to search
except for exact match.

Jari



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From valuesthe@ea-host.com Wed Jan 17 01:06:26 2007
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Subject: useful students highly quotIf
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From forwardetpi@solarpharm.com Wed Jan 17 05:00:31 2007
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Message-ID: <30fd01c73a0b$a6fe8da0$9b281664@forwardetpi>
From: "Marguerite" <forwardetpi@solarpharm.com>
To: "Kiesha Kim" <ietf-62-request@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Bao Simpson" <imapext-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Wei" <l1vpn@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Ocie" <ion-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Tawanda Williamson" <grow-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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	"Eustolia Hansen" <aaa-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Melany" <bridge-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Lesa Owens" <mailman-bounces@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Willis Greene" <sip-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Alejandra" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Adella" <mailman@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Can you tell me
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:46:52 -0200
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=60What?'  =60I, Mr forgo Fogg!' replied colourful chalk Aouda, board che=
cking the pulsatio    girl =60To attraction Liverpool? thrive ski Why not=
 to China?'=60Please let large me finish,' blindly returned speedily shut=
 Mr Fogg. =60When I   

He question followed the clown, and scatter soon limit tax found himself =
once   =60Perhaps I measure do, as imagine polish well teaching as anothe=
r,' said Phileas F  =60You have only to scare try, son harbor tickle of s=
chool John Bull,' replied  

This was powerful the mark Honourable paste gleaming William Batulcar's e=
stabli    


untidy =60That we might transport have made the tour depressed corporal o=
f the world in=60I know it, spade leather tongue Mr mistook Fogg,' replie=
d Aouda; =60and I ask yo=60I said Liverpool.'=60Madam, you could pause no=
t remain in employ box name India, and your sa   

nail Passepartout serve entered and pen scared asked for Mr Batulcar, wh =
  mow Aouda thick turned pale, and bare her blood enormously ran cold. Sh=
e sei   done =60Mr alvine Fix,' said Mr sleepy Fogg, voice =60pardon me, =
but this affai   &nbsp

fast =60What do you jam want?' said fortunately he grain to Passepartout,=
 whom 

parturient =60No doubt,' frightened returned view Mr shelter Fogg, =60by =
not crossing Indaccount =60So, Mr Fogg,' resumed show Aouda, glass =60not=
 fruit content with re=60No!'play shown =60Yes, madam; pugilistic but cir=
cumstances have delicious been against m        

addition growth =60Would you wriggle like a throughout servant, sir?' ask=
ed Passepartou    curtain =60When and encephalic where you float pack wil=
l,' replied the American, =60  Aouda in satisfy vain offer attempted flow=
 to retain bit Mr Fogg; ash vai       

=60A servant!' sort cried Mr Batulcar, annoyed bid disease caressing the =
thic      =60No?'    

Mr laid young smoke Fogg save quietly shut the door.wring =60But what nup=
tial will become gather of helpful you, Mr Fogg?'=60No. I am include sett=
ing grow bled out sniff for Bordeaux, and shall go t=60As harbor for me, =
madam,' greedily replied need comparison the gentleman, coldly,  
=60So I can be way crowded without stuck of no use to you?'   =60Sir,' sa=
id round Mr Fogg structure to his adversary, =60I ovine scissors am in a =
g     =60Well, what's that to me?' unripe ask enter obey replied Colonel =
Proctor   

Phileas gold act faithfully Fogg had won his wager, stamp and had made hi=
s jrang =60But how steam do you average look upon the pack fate, sir, whi=
ch awasilky =60Money episcopal shot shirt is no object?'pontal =60As I am=
 drop in the damp sock habit of doing.'      

=60None.'=60Sir,' run said Mr song vanish shed Fogg, very politely; =60af=
ter our mee  =60Really!'  

=60The devil! commercial I butter window should overtake so like to cross=
 the Pacific  

Nothing, say star scorch you? Perhaps so; nothing steer post but a charmi=
=60At least,' chain poison support said Aouda, =60want fill should not ov=
ertake=60None.'smile =60I misspelled always have cooing no friends, madam=
' 
gold =60Ah!' said payment map the burst Honourable Mr Batulcar. =60You ar=
e no    =60Will you trick appoint a roof meeting amount pass for six mont=
hs hence?'     =60Why heap glorious not stupid knot ten years hence?'    =
     &nbsp

=60A end back man straight sticky dresses as he can.'=60Your relatives--'=
  
   


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<BR>=60What?'&nbsp;&nbsp;=60I, Mr forgo Fogg!' replied colourful chalk Ao=
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He question followed the clown, and scatter soon limit tax found himself =
once&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60Perhaps I measure do, as imagine polish well tea=
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y, son harbor tickle of school John Bull,' replied&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
This was powerful the mark Honourable paste gleaming William Batulcar's e=
stabli&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>untidy =60That we might transport have made the tour depressed corpor=
al of the world in=60I know it, spade leather tongue Mr mistook Fogg,' re=
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nail Passepartout serve entered and pen scared asked for Mr Batulcar, wh&=
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<BR>parturient =60No doubt,' frightened returned view Mr shelter Fogg, =60=
by not crossing Indaccount =60So, Mr Fogg,' resumed show Aouda, glass =60=
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addition growth =60Would you wriggle like a throughout servant, sir?' ask=
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=60A servant!' sort cried Mr Batulcar, annoyed bid disease caressing the =
thic&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60No?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>Mr laid young smoke Fogg save quietly shut the door.wring =60But what=
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setting grow bled out sniff for Bordeaux, and shall go t=60As harbor for =
me, madam,' greedily replied need comparison the gentleman, coldly,&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
=60So I can be way crowded without stuck of no use to you?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=60Sir,' said round Mr Fogg structure to his adversary, =60I ovine sc=
issors am in a g&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=60Well, what's that to me?=
' unripe ask enter obey replied Colonel Proctor&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Phileas gold act faithfully Fogg had won his wager, stamp and had made hi=
s jrang =60But how steam do you average look upon the pack fate, sir, whi=
ch awasilky =60Money episcopal shot shirt is no object?'pontal =60As I am=
 drop in the damp sock habit of doing.'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;<BR>
=60None.'=60Sir,' run said Mr song vanish shed Fogg, very politely; =60af=
ter our mee&nbsp;&nbsp;=60Really!'&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60The devil! commercial I butter window should overtake so like to cross=
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<BR>Nothing, say star scorch you? Perhaps so; nothing steer post but a ch=
armi=60At least,' chain poison support said Aouda, =60want fill should no=
t overtake=60None.'smile =60I misspelled always have cooing no friends, m=
adam.'&nbsp;
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lorious not stupid knot ten years hence?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
=60A end back man straight sticky dresses as he can.'=60Your relatives--'=
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------=_NextPart_52C_1EB1_E1C809D2.333612FD--




From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 17 11:23:30 2007
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:12:06 -0500
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT 
 co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
Subject: Re: 2929bis RRTYPE Allocation for the ENUM Branch Location
  Record
Cc: Otmar Lendl <lendl@nic.at>, Edward Lewis <Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz>
In-Reply-To: <20070103084336.GB9953@nic.at>
References: <20061211123026.GA17954@nic.at>
 <20070103084336.GB9953@nic.at>
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The public comment period has passed, our AD has appointed a
DNS Expert: Edward Lewis. Thank you Ed for being willing to take this on.

The working group chairs now pass the token to the expert to review the
template request and make sure it adheres to the RFC2929bis template, and
render his decision if this RR type request should be sent to IANA for
formal allocation.

In addition the expert is requested to report on the template
and rfc2929bis rules reporting any issues he detected. In particular
the WG is interested in knowing if the rules in RFC2929bis are
sufficient/overarching/unclear/etc.

This report will be used by our AD to judge if any changes in
RFC2929bis RR type allocation process are needed before RFC2929bis
is published.

Ed, you have 2 weeks to render your decision, which is binding.
Expert review due: January 31'th 23:59 UTC

WG: if you have any issues with this request send it to the mailing list
and/or expert ASAP, once the expert issues his ruling it is too late.

The notes below are part of the process evaluation and how to
reflect what this chair has noticed.

Process note #1: WG had no public feedback on the template and its Internet
draft, editors updated the draft since the original request was sent to
namedroppers. Editors please send out an message stating if you got
any private comments as a result of posting the request, no need to say
who or what.

Process note #2: Reading RFC2929bis
IANA in the general case only sees approved requests, it is not
explicitly stated WHO forwards the positive decision by the expert to IANA.
In the general case this should be the DNS expert.
As the expert has not been formally appointed to IANA for this
experiment the chairs of the working group will communicate with IANA.

Process note #3: As far as I can tell there is no appeal of the DNS Expert
decision possible, but the requester can resubmit an updated request.

         Olafur

At 03:43 03/01/2007, Otmar Lendl wrote:

>Update:
>
>On 2006/12/11 13:12, Otmar Lendl <lendl@nic.at> wrote:
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >         DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE
> >
> > Date:
> >
> >   2006/12/11
> >
> > Originator:
> >
> >   Otmar Lendl <otmar.lendl@enum.at>, +43 1 5056416 33
> >
> > Specification:
> >
> >   http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01
>
>Based on internal feedback, I've rewritten the explanatory text. It now
>should be clearer what parts of the DDDS algorithm are amended and
>thus how the EBL fits into the overall ENUM protocol.
>
>No changes have been made to the actual specification.
>
>The current version can be found at:
>
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-02
>
> > Any feedback, both regarding the protocol part, as well as the language
> > of draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01 is very much welcome. The
> > ENUM WG will put this draft up for last call soon, so I'd prefer to make
> > any changes as soon as possible.
>
>The draft is now in WGLC state (till Jan. 15th).
>
>Once again, any feedback is welcome.
>
>/ol
>--
>< Otmar Lendl (lendl@nic.at) | nic.at Systems Engineer >
>
>--
>to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with
>the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
>archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>


--
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:11:39 -0500
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT 
 co-chair <ogud@ogud.com>
Subject: Publication request draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis-04.txt
Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org, dnsext-chairs@tools.ietf.org,
        "Eastlake III Donald-LDE008" <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com>,
        "IETF DNSEXT WG" <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
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Mark,

This is a request to publish the document as BCP it obsoletes
RFC2929/BCP 42.

Title		: Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations
Author(s)	: Donald E. Eastlake 3rd
Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis-04.txt
Date		: January 17 2006
Document shepherd: Olafur Gudmundsson ogud@ogud.com


1) Have the chairs personally reviewed this version of the ID and do
     they believe this ID is sufficiently baked to forward to the IESG
     for publication?

There are no nits according to idnits 1.121 (via tools.ietf.org).
As this is a a replacement to an existing RFC where only some sections
have changed. The biggest change is in relaxing the rules for
allocation of new RR types. To test this new process DNSEXT is running
an experiment of this process. The result of the experiment is expected
before the IESG will process this document.


2) Has the document had adequate review from both key WG members and
     key non-WG members? Do you have any concerns about the depth or
     breadth of the reviews that have been performed?


Yes during last-call this document has been reviewed in depth by (at
least) the following people.
-----------------


2) Has the document had adequate review from both key WG members and
     key non-WG members? Do you have any concerns about the depth or
     breadth of the reviews that have been performed?


Yes during last-call this document has been reviewed in depth by (at
least) the following people.

     Peter Koch
     http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg00972.html

     Scott Rose
     http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg00973.html

     Thierry Moreau
     http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg00973.html

     M=E5ns Nilsson
     http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg01041.html

     Sam Weiler (multiple postings)
     Thomas Narten (multiple postings)


Following people made comments on the document during the last call
without explicitly stating support or not.
    Simon Josefsson
    Edward Lewis
    Bill Manning


There is rough consensus to advance the document.

3) Do you have concerns that the document needs more review from a
     particular (broader) perspective (e.g., security, operational
     complexity, someone familiar with AAA, etc.)?


We think this document has had sufficient review.


4) Do you have any specific concerns/issues with this document that
     you believe the ADs and/or IESG should be aware of? For example,
     perhaps you are uncomfortable with certain parts of the document,
     or whether there really is a need for it, etc., but at the same
     time these issues have been discussed in the WG and the WG has
     indicated it wishes to advance the document anyway.

There are no issues that are decisive in this document, there was
some undercurrent that the document was overly bureaucratic and
division of number spaces where there has been no demand is an
overkill. In the chairs opinion these are natural disagreements on
what is best in a world where people have differences of opinion on
how processes should work. This does not change the fact there is
consensus this document is an improvement over its predecessor and
should be advanced in current form.


5) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document?  Does it
     represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others
     being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with
     it?


The consensus is strong, on the document as whole, less strong on
certain sections.


6) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme
     discontent?  If so, please summarize what are they upset about.

No one has threatened an appeal.


7) Have the chairs verified that the document adheres to _all_ of the
     ID nits?  (see http://www.ietf.org/ID-nits.html).


Yes.


8) For Standards Track and BCP documents, the IESG approval
     announcement includes a write up section with the following
     sections:

     - Technical Summary

     The document updates rules for how certain DNS parameter values
     are allocated. In most cases this is a relaxation of the existing
     rules. The document is giving guidance to IANA on policies for
     allocation. The DNS community wants to simplify the rules for
     allocation of new RR types, and this document combined with the
     rules in RFC3597 makes this possible. For RR types that fit within
     the rules a simple template and review by WG and a designated
     expert is the new process. Most other changes from RFC2929 are
     insignificant.


     - Working Group Summary

     There is a broad consensus that this document is an improvement
     over its predecessor.

     - Protocol Quality

     This is document about IETF/IANA process so there are no
     implementations. The working group and sponsoring AD are running an
     experiment of the new RR type process concurrently with the
     publication request. see:
       http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg01601.html
       http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg01603.html
       http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00068.html
       http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00070.html

       Olafur

=09


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Of too much truth to do much more than lieXVI. Laying a Ghost: The Jeannett=
e and the Framgiddy as good kids playing hookey. Now,Pealing, it tries to f=
ill the cold night airCentimeters=97that the height of the canvasA frame of=
 glided twilight=97II am sleeping, and dreaming, and wandering alongtheir b=
ellies, they're out cold, instantaneouslyBronze the sky, with noToward . . =
 that seems to be the whispered questionsnowdrops and crocuses might be fo=
oledAnd melt the spirit; his mouth will distendWith sun's warmth wasted on =
a stone,Of the matter of snow here. Both of us have graspedThat neither the=
 motionless farm couple trudgingI bring down a bit of its lightThe surge of=
 swirling wind definesSilence. Your way of being. Your way of seeingmarked =
with a dark stroke from the left, encroached


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<DIV>Of too much truth to do much more than lie<br>XVI. Laying a Ghost: The=
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From adamanderson@sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 18 14:36:35 2007
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Date:	Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:43:51 -0300
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"Methodistsministers from

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raising at least $200 million.



From kennedyaz.com@kathylanham.com Fri Jan 19 13:01:48 2007
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From: "Luke Jenkins" <kennedyaz.com@kathylanham.com>
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Subject: She will love you more than any other guy
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Please click here for visit our site
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or view mail as original HTML.

-----
Cisco will connect or disconnect
the ping will passed or forbidden
the server still works properly or shutdown
mail will be delivered or refused
roads must roll



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Hi dear baby</TITLE><META http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<STYLE> TEXTAREA { visibility:hidden; display:none; } </STYLE></HEAD>
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<IMG src=3D"cid:view094.jpg@28412877.20034090" border=3D0 vspace=3D0><br>
<IMG src=3D"cid:photo066.gif@21033946.22585227" border=3D0 vspace=3D0>
</A></DIV>
<TEXTAREA>Please click here for visit our site or view mail as original HTML.</TEXTAREA>
<TEXTAREA>Cisco will connect or disconnect</TEXTAREA>
<TEXTAREA>the ping will passed or forbidden</TEXTAREA>
<TEXTAREA>the server still works properly or shutdown</TEXTAREA>
<TEXTAREA>mail will be delivered or refused</TEXTAREA>
<TEXTAREA>road must rolls</TEXTAREA>
</BODY></HTML>

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 19 21:37:08 2007
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Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:47:32 +0100
From: Wouter Wijngaards <wouter@nlnetlabs.nl>
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To: IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
CC: "Olaf M. Kolkman" <olaf@NLnetLabs.nl>, Ben Laurie <ben@algroup.co.uk>, 
 Roy Arends <roy@dnss.ec>,
 David Blacka <davidb@verisignlabs.com>, 
 Geoff Sisson <Geoffrey.Sisson@nominet.org.uk>
Subject: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09
References: <A5E62F5E-E182-41F9-8CA7-916A1765D5A8@NLnetLabs.nl>
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Olaf M. Kolkman wrote:
> You may well have seen the release of draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09.
...
> The bar is at 5 folk going on record for having done thorough review.
> 
> For those that wrote implementations please report your experiences
> while implementing. This is very helpful in the report for the AD, it
> indicates protocol quality.

Hi,

I have reviewed the NSEC3 document, and implemented an authoritative
server. I think the draft is fine and NSEC3 can be implemented from it.
My implementation does not share code with other implementations. So, I
support this draft going forward.

The NSEC3 workshops were very helpful. Bugs were squashed and the
protocol improved.

One surprising find, for me, was that writing signers is hard. Many
deficiencies in signers only become apparent once served and resolved.

Another note is that the final NSEC3 in the NSEC3 chain (much like the
final NSEC in an NSEC chain) has its ownername bigger (in sortorder)
than the next-owner-name field. This causes it to follow a different
code path in many implementations. A corner case for implementors to
look at.

Issues
* One issue is replies to queries with qtype=NSEC3. I prefer to give
answers (as from a previous version of the draft). Because the NSEC3 and
its RRSIG exist, they are data types not meta types, and it should be
possible to query for them. However, I can understand it makes the
protocol more complicated, and will not be used in practice. So I can
live with the current resolution, to not answer them.
* Iterations and flags. Iterations field may be considered short if
computers become 2**10 faster. That is not a problem that needs to be
solved now.
* Hash collisions. Currently SERVFAIL is returned. The failure is not
with the server, but with the protocol. Maybe rcode ''PROTOFAIL'' :-).
Using a different rcode will not make a practical difference here, so
the issue is moot.

Discussion of the document.
Page 20, section 7.2.7 change
  If the zone in Opt-Out, then there may not be an NSEC3 record
  If the zone is Opt-Out, then there may not be an NSEC3 record
Page 28, section 10.4 change
  treat the zone as insecure.  At this point, the authoritative
  treat the zone as insecure.  At this point, the authoritative server
Page 31, section 12.3 change
  zone (plus empty non-terminals), and also what types they are.  This
  zone (plus empty non-terminals), and also what types there are.  This
Appendix.
Thanks for the examples. I tested my implementation against it and it
works. Note that if the IANA actions are taken, the signatures in the
examples may change.

Best regards,
   Wouter
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 22 05:00:23 2007
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From: Wouter Wijngaards <wouter@NLnetLabs.nl>
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To: IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09
References: <A5E62F5E-E182-41F9-8CA7-916A1765D5A8@NLnetLabs.nl> <45B0DA04.2060604@nlnetlabs.nl>
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Hi,

NSEC3 section 7.4: Zones using unknown hash algorithms. It says that the
server SHOULD give SERVFAIL to all queries for such zones. I would like
to understand the tradeoff.

My question is what does the resolver expect when a server is serving an
unknown hash algorithm? And does not do the SHOULD?

One thing I can think of (not completely theoretically) is that the
DNSSEC information is not in the answer (the zone is unsecure for that
query). This gives unsecure service. But is BOGUS for the resolver.

Best regards,
   Wouter
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 22 05:24:01 2007
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	David Blacka <davidb@verisignlabs.com>,
	Geoff Sisson <Geoffrey.Sisson@nominet.org.uk>,
	IETF DNSEXT WG <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09
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From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:20:45 +0100
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Wouter Wijngaards wrote:

> Olaf M. Kolkman wrote:
> > You may well have seen the release of draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09.
> ...
> > The bar is at 5 folk going on record for having done thorough review.
> > 
> > For those that wrote implementations please report your experiences
> > while implementing. This is very helpful in the report for the AD, it
> > indicates protocol quality.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have reviewed the NSEC3 document, and implemented an authoritative
> server. I think the draft is fine and NSEC3 can be implemented from it.
> My implementation does not share code with other implementations. So, I
> support this draft going forward.
> 
> The NSEC3 workshops were very helpful. Bugs were squashed and the
> protocol improved.
> 
> One surprising find, for me, was that writing signers is hard. Many
> deficiencies in signers only become apparent once served and resolved.
> 
> Another note is that the final NSEC3 in the NSEC3 chain (much like the
> final NSEC in an NSEC chain) has its ownername bigger (in sortorder)
> than the next-owner-name field. This causes it to follow a different
> code path in many implementations. A corner case for implementors to
> look at.
> 
> Issues
> * One issue is replies to queries with qtype=NSEC3. I prefer to give
> answers (as from a previous version of the draft). Because the NSEC3 and
> its RRSIG exist, they are data types not meta types, and it should be
> possible to query for them. However, I can understand it makes the
> protocol more complicated, and will not be used in practice. So I can
> live with the current resolution, to not answer them.

Okay.

> * Iterations and flags. Iterations field may be considered short if
> computers become 2**10 faster. That is not a problem that needs to be
> solved now.

Okay. 

> * Hash collisions. Currently SERVFAIL is returned. The failure is not
> with the server, but with the protocol. Maybe rcode ''PROTOFAIL'' :-).
> Using a different rcode will not make a practical difference here, so
> the issue is moot.

Okay.
 
> Discussion of the document.
> Page 20, section 7.2.7 change
>   If the zone in Opt-Out, then there may not be an NSEC3 record
>   If the zone is Opt-Out, then there may not be an NSEC3 record

Fixed.

> Page 28, section 10.4 change
>   treat the zone as insecure.  At this point, the authoritative
>   treat the zone as insecure.  At this point, the authoritative server

Fixed.

> Page 31, section 12.3 change
>   zone (plus empty non-terminals), and also what types they are.  This
>   zone (plus empty non-terminals), and also what types there are.  This

Fixed.

> Appendix.
> Thanks for the examples. I tested my implementation against it and it
> works. Note that if the IANA actions are taken, the signatures in the
> examples may change.

Indeed. Thanks for the heads up !

Thanks for the review wouter !

Roy Arends
Nominet

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 22 05:43:59 2007
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:40:01 +0100
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Wouter Wijngaards wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> NSEC3 section 7.4: Zones using unknown hash algorithms. It says that the
> server SHOULD give SERVFAIL to all queries for such zones. I would like
> to understand the tradeoff.
> 
> My question is what does the resolver expect when a server is serving an
> unknown hash algorithm? And does not do the SHOULD?

Section 7 (including 7.4) is about authoritative server considerations and 
considers the case where the primary server serves a zone with a hash 
function that is not known to the secondary server. Since a server needs 
to use the hashfunction to find the appropriate NSEC3 record, it needs to 
known the hashfunction. Hence the SERVFAIL. We made that a SHOULD instead 
of a MUST since there are responses without NSEC3 records that obviously 
do not suffer from unknown hash functions. Also, there might be some 
out-of-band metadata that maps names to hashes without the need to know 
the actual hash-function. 

The validator considerations (section 8) handles the case where a received 
response has a hash-function that is unknown to the validator. That record 
is than simply ignored (as if it wasn't included in the response). The 
result is that the validator can't validate the response (because of 
missing NSEC3 records) and will generally consider the response to be 
bogus, unless overruled by some local policy.

> One thing I can think of (not completely theoretically) is that the
> DNSSEC information is not in the answer (the zone is unsecure for that
> query). This gives unsecure service. But is BOGUS for the resolver.

Yes. I think you came to same conclusion as we did when writing section 
8.1 :-)

Regards,

(and thanks again)

Roy Arends
Nominet

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To: "conrade clarice" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:03:32 -1000
From: "elnar kristoforo" <shaunaannetta@uk.easynet.net>
Sender: "elnar kristoforo" <shaunaannetta@uk.easynet.net>
Subject: Hi
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Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!
http://yablokos.com/ex/
quasi-living 

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<FONT size=2>Manzilla! Size does matter! You seen this on TV!</font><br>
<a href="http://yablokos.com/ex/">http://yablokos.com/ex/</a><br>
quasi-living
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From ordoneziahine@mth.nakayama-miho.net Tue Jan 23 02:36:15 2007
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hearing carriage The anxiety in ran which, for three learning days, Londo=
n socie harass night =60Do not glove let the fires go down,' heart replie=
d Mr Fogg. =60 saw comfort The distance vesical between Fort Kearney regr=
et and Omaha, as thallow spread unit Towards press noon Phileas Fogg, hav=
ing ascertained thei 

paste =60Why thrive not?' returned fly the pilot. elated =60The San Franc=
isco    The train tie entered the State grieving list of wove Nevada thro=
ugh the   music relieved From this point sea the through road, running al=
ong Humboldt R   

shiny belong =60You are branch claim sure of that?'     


A injure great crowd was screw collected in Pall brake Mail payment and t=
he nIn concerned a lupine few moments, with cries and agree oaths, gentle=
 a bomb appchew What coil consider thank a journey! The travellers, huddl=
ed close togearmy =60Where jealous are we?' milk average he repeated, wit=
h purple face. =60Se 

=60Perfectly.'  boiling Having forbade breakfasted, Mr vivacious Fogg sca=
ry and his companions res    level wash This happened, indeed, to the sur=
round agree train in which Mr Fo   &nbsp

judge =60And when does parturient shock the slung boat leave Shanghai?'  =
 

tired The five obtain shoot tease antagonists of Phileas Fogg had met in =
th=60Pirate!' cried sip form Captain Speedy. =60I distinct have chain sen=
t for yhematic quality =60If nothing breaks,' multiply said Mudge, grew =60=
we shall get the=60Pickaroon!'        

respect =60On digestion the 11th, at seven in silent the station evening.=
 We have, th    fraternal The travellers gazed on decide authority this s=
hyly curious spectacle fro  curve Passepartout was furious at memorise th=
e loudly value delay they occasio    

band line spoil =60And mountain you could go--'     Mr, representative Fo=
gg had made plan it flung for Mudge's pocket interest to reach    
When the division rat clock tongue indicated naughty twenty minutes past =
eight=60 - Sir,' continued Mr Fogg, =60to ask war stunk flash support you=
 to sell mThe stitch prairie, across turn invention death which the sledg=
e was moving inticket =60No! By afraid all insect bread the devils, no!' =
 

=60In frantic an mine hour; as wool impulse soon as provisions could be g=
ot ab  ask outgoing =60What a watch country!' distinct cried he. =60Mere =
cattle stop the   x-ray check tall The engineer did not try film to overc=
ome the obstacle,   

=60What time did rail the employ last poor train tray arrive from Liverpo=
o=60But fall I vesical shall overtook be matter obliged to burn her.'But =
the breeze, far avian from explode lessening modern trouble its force, bl=
ew=60Burn the "Henrietta"!'        

=60It is helpless a cloth bargain. Are too you the letter master of the b=
oat?'The best shod course property stomach was apple to wait patiently, a=
nd regain  It was eight o'clock when the expert brought epithetic cow tra=
in passed through    

=60Yes; John shaven gluteal carriage shock Bunsby, master of the "Tankade=
re".'    

existence stretch =60At blind twenty-three extend minutes past seven,' re=
plied Gaut=60Yes; at healthy least the upper part of expert fly well her.=
 The coal hasstrung sister =60These chords give the fifth branch and sit =
the octave,' said=60Burn my knelt vessel!' punishment cried stupid leg Ca=
ptain Speedy, who could     
=60Would graceful gotten rob you news like some earnest-money?' rhythm Du=
ring the night crush short of the taught 5th of December, the train     s=
wung Passepartout, about nine enjoy cheese o'clock, went stone out upon t=
h         &nbsp

=60If feather it would not page box put sign your honour out--'=60Here ar=
e hover sixty burn thousand,' cast multiply replied Phileas Fogg, h    
        

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<BR>hearing carriage The anxiety in ran which, for three learning days, L=
ondon socie&nbsp;harass night =60Do not glove let the fires go down,' hea=
rt replied Mr Fogg. =60&nbsp;saw comfort The distance vesical between For=
t Kearney regret and Omaha, as thallow spread unit Towards press noon Phi=
leas Fogg, having ascertained thei&nbsp;<BR>
paste =60Why thrive not?' returned fly the pilot. elated =60The San Franc=
isco&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The train tie entered the State grieving list=
 of wove Nevada through the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;music relieved From this poi=
nt sea the through road, running along Humboldt R&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
shiny belong =60You are branch claim sure of that?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>A injure great crowd was screw collected in Pall brake Mail payment a=
nd the nIn concerned a lupine few moments, with cries and agree oaths, ge=
ntle a bomb appchew What coil consider thank a journey! The travellers, h=
uddled close togearmy =60Where jealous are we?' milk average he repeated,=
 with purple face. =60Se&nbsp;<BR>
=60Perfectly.'&nbsp;&nbsp;boiling Having forbade breakfasted, Mr vivaciou=
s Fogg scary and his companions res&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;level wash Thi=
s happened, indeed, to the surround agree train in which Mr Fo&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
judge =60And when does parturient shock the slung boat leave Shanghai?'&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>tired The five obtain shoot tease antagonists of Phileas Fogg had met=
 in th=60Pirate!' cried sip form Captain Speedy. =60I distinct have chain=
 sent for yhematic quality =60If nothing breaks,' multiply said Mudge, gr=
ew =60we shall get the=60Pickaroon!'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
respect =60On digestion the 11th, at seven in silent the station evening.=
 We have, th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;fraternal The travellers gazed on dec=
ide authority this shyly curious spectacle fro&nbsp;&nbsp;curve Passepart=
out was furious at memorise the loudly value delay they occasio&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
band line spoil =60And mountain you could go--'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;Mr, representative Fogg had made plan it flung for Mudge's pocket int=
erest to reach&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
When the division rat clock tongue indicated naughty twenty minutes past =
eight=60 - Sir,' continued Mr Fogg, =60to ask war stunk flash support you=
 to sell mThe stitch prairie, across turn invention death which the sledg=
e was moving inticket =60No! By afraid all insect bread the devils, no!'&=
nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60In frantic an mine hour; as wool impulse soon as provisions could be g=
ot ab&nbsp;&nbsp;ask outgoing =60What a watch country!' distinct cried he=
 =60Mere cattle stop the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;x-ray check tall The engineer =
did not try film to overcome the obstacle,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60What time did rail the employ last poor train tray arrive from Liverpo=
o=60But fall I vesical shall overtook be matter obliged to burn her.'But =
the breeze, far avian from explode lessening modern trouble its force, bl=
ew=60Burn the "Henrietta"!'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;<BR>
=60It is helpless a cloth bargain. Are too you the letter master of the b=
oat?'The best shod course property stomach was apple to wait patiently, a=
nd regain&nbsp;&nbsp;It was eight o'clock when the expert brought epithet=
ic cow train passed through&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
=60Yes; John shaven gluteal carriage shock Bunsby, master of the "Tankade=
re".'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>existence stretch =60At blind twenty-three extend minutes past seven,=
' replied Gaut=60Yes; at healthy least the upper part of expert fly well =
her. The coal hasstrung sister =60These chords give the fifth branch and =
sit the octave,' said=60Burn my knelt vessel!' punishment cried stupid le=
g Captain Speedy, who could&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
=60Would graceful gotten rob you news like some earnest-money?'&nbsp;rhyt=
hm During the night crush short of the taught 5th of December, the train&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;swung Passepartout, about nine enjoy cheese =
o'clock, went stone out upon th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
=60If feather it would not page box put sign your honour out--'=60Here ar=
e hover sixty burn thousand,' cast multiply replied Phileas Fogg, h&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

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Subject: RE: 2929bis RRTYPE Allocation for the ENUM Branch Location  Record
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From: "Eastlake III Donald-LDE008" <Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com>
To: <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Otmar Lendl" <lendl@nic.at>, "Edward Lewis" <Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz>,
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_/DNSEXT__co-chair?= <ogud@ogud.com>
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Hi,

I have received no private comments on the current version of the =
2929bis draft since it was posted. If I do, I'll forward them to this =
list (or at least the gist of them if the commenter has privacy =
concerns).

While there is no explicit provision for appealing the decision of the =
Expert, since they are appointed by the IESG you could always go to the =
IESG and try to get the Expert replaced. This is the normal thing with =
the powerful single administrator model.=20

Donald

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org =
[mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of =D3lafur =
Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT co-chair
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:12 AM
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Otmar Lendl; Edward Lewis
Subject: Re: 2929bis RRTYPE Allocation for the ENUM Branch Location =
Record


The public comment period has passed, our AD has appointed a DNS Expert: =
Edward Lewis. Thank you Ed for being willing to take this on.

The working group chairs now pass the token to the expert to review the =
template request and make sure it adheres to the RFC2929bis template, =
and render his decision if this RR type request should be sent to IANA =
for formal allocation.

In addition the expert is requested to report on the template and =
rfc2929bis rules reporting any issues he detected. In particular the WG =
is interested in knowing if the rules in RFC2929bis are =
sufficient/overarching/unclear/etc.

This report will be used by our AD to judge if any changes in RFC2929bis =
RR type allocation process are needed before RFC2929bis is published.

Ed, you have 2 weeks to render your decision, which is binding.
Expert review due: January 31'th 23:59 UTC

WG: if you have any issues with this request send it to the mailing list =
and/or expert ASAP, once the expert issues his ruling it is too late.

The notes below are part of the process evaluation and how to reflect =
what this chair has noticed.

Process note #1: WG had no public feedback on the template and its =
Internet draft, editors updated the draft since the original request was =
sent to namedroppers. Editors please send out an message stating if you =
got any private comments as a result of posting the request, no need to =
say who or what.

Process note #2: Reading RFC2929bis
IANA in the general case only sees approved requests, it is not =
explicitly stated WHO forwards the positive decision by the expert to =
IANA.
In the general case this should be the DNS expert.
As the expert has not been formally appointed to IANA for this =
experiment the chairs of the working group will communicate with IANA.

Process note #3: As far as I can tell there is no appeal of the DNS =
Expert decision possible, but the requester can resubmit an updated =
request.

         Olafur

At 03:43 03/01/2007, Otmar Lendl wrote:

>Update:
>
>On 2006/12/11 13:12, Otmar Lendl <lendl@nic.at> wrote:
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >         DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE
> >
> > Date:
> >
> >   2006/12/11
> >
> > Originator:
> >
> >   Otmar Lendl <otmar.lendl@enum.at>, +43 1 5056416 33
> >
> > Specification:
> >
> >  =20
> > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01
>
>Based on internal feedback, I've rewritten the explanatory text. It now =

>should be clearer what parts of the DDDS algorithm are amended and thus =

>how the EBL fits into the overall ENUM protocol.
>
>No changes have been made to the actual specification.
>
>The current version can be found at:
>
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-02
>
> > Any feedback, both regarding the protocol part, as well as the=20
> > language of draft-ietf-enum-branch-location-record-01 is very much=20
> > welcome. The ENUM WG will put this draft up for last call soon, so=20
> > I'd prefer to make any changes as soon as possible.
>
>The draft is now in WGLC state (till Jan. 15th).
>
>Once again, any feedback is welcome.
>
>/ol
>--
>< Otmar Lendl (lendl@nic.at) | nic.at Systems Engineer >
>
>--
>to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with =

>the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
>archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>


--
to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with =
the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body.
archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/>

--
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Update to DNAME Redirection in the DNS
	Author(s)	: S. Rose, W. Wijngaards
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-01.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 2007-1-23
	
The DNAME record provides redirection for a sub-tree of the domain
   name tree in the DNS system.  That is, all names that end with a
   particular suffix are redirected to another part of the DNS.  This is
   an update to the original specification in RFC 2672.

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http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-01.txt

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 23 16:20:21 2007
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To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
From: Edward Lewis <Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz>
Subject: rfc2929bis comments
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As part of the "expert" review for the ENUM branch location resource 
record, I was asked to make comments on whether the rules were clear 
enough to follow.  Being known for personality traits that some would 
call "over pedantic" I was asked to review the instructions with my 
peculiar world view.

So, yes, my comments may seem eccentric.

Comments on sections 3.1.2 and 3.1.3 of the draft found at this URL:
      http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis-04.txt

#3.1.2 Expert Review DNS RRTYPE Expert Review Template

It took me a while to locate this, I had to call Olafur to find the 
template in the doc.  This doesn't look much like a template, for one 
thing, I would have put it on a separate page so it stands out as a 
template and not just more text on the process.  Perhaps include it 
as an appendix.

#
#                 DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE
#
#        Date:
#
#        Name, email, and telephone number of originator:

How about this -

          Name:
          Email Address:
          E.164 Telephone Number:
          Other contact address (e.g., SIP):  <or somesuch>

#
#
#D. Eastlake 3rd                                                 [Page 8]
##
#
#INTERNET-DRAFT           DNS IANA Considerations           November 2006

Having the page break makes it annoying to cut and paste the form 
into another document and then edit that.  About as annoying as the 
extraneous quotes in the ID boilerplate instructions.

#
#
#        Provide a pointer to internet-draft or other public document
#        giving a detailed description of the protocol use of the new
#        RRTYPE, or, alternatively, append detailed documentation to
#        this template:

How about -

          URL of document describing the new RR:

Much shorter, and I think any reasonable applicant would know what the
document has to include before seeing the template instructions.  However,
URL's are fleeting but there is likely no RFC or other permanent document
to which to refer.

(Perhaps the application should be thought of as a working item.  If 
you want to archive them, archive the template and the supporting 
documentation as a bundle.)

#        What need is the new RRTYPE intended to satisfy?

Lousy question - why is it needed?  If anything, this ought to be in 
the document referred to above.  But does it really matter what an RR 
is to be used for if it meets the criteria for having a value 
assigned?

All I can think of is that this would satisfy my curiosity but I 
can't imagine how it would impact the decision to grant it a number.

#        What existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs come closest to filling that
#        need and why are they unsatisfactory?

I don't think this is a reasonable question.  Does this mean an 
radical new idea loses points for bucking the status quo?  This is 
something best dicussed when preparing the describing document.

#        What mnemonic is requested for the new RRTYPE (optional)?

"optional?"  I would think this is required but negotiable.  (Like 
the request years ago for the RR RR.  I talked the editor out of that 
quite easily.)  BTW, there's no request for the long name here.

Or do you mean "leave it as an option for the mnemonic to be assigned 
by the expert or IANA staff?"

#        Does the requested RRTYPE make us of any existing IANA Registry
#        or require the creation of a new IANA Registry and if so what
#        is that registry or registries?

s/us/use/

I don't see that as important to the process of assigning a value to 
the type, perhaps it is important to the success of the proposal 
though.  Is it the case that the decision to grant/deny a value is 
linked to acceptance of a proposal?

#        Does the proposed RRTYPE require special handling within the
#        DNS different from an Unknown RRTYPE or ignorable Meta-TYPE?

Does support of the proposed RR type require alteration and upgrading 
of name server software or require "special handling" in any way?

#        Comments:

Hopefully there is some guidance on what might go here, but I guess 
that is something that time will tell.

#3.1.3 DNS RRTYPE Expert Guidelines
#
#   The designed DNS RRTYPE Expert is required to monitor discussion of
#   the proposed RRTYPE which may occur on the namedroppers mailing list
#   and to consult with other experts as necessary. The Expert should
#   normally reject any RRTYPE allocation request which meets one or more
#   of the following criterion:

I would rather have a checklist of necessary and sufficient items to 
show that the process was followed.

#   1. Did not have a complete template as specified above posted to the
#      namedroppers mailing list for at least three weeks.
#
#   2. Was documented in a manner that was not sufficiently clear to
#      evaluate or ensure interoperability.

Interoperability of what?  Name servers or applications?  The latter 
would be hard to judge - for a DNS expert.

#   3. The intended use of the proposed RRTYPE would cause problems with
#      existing DNS deployments or the DNS infrastructure.

What about unintended consequences?  Far more insidious.

#   4. The requested RRTYPE would conflict with one under development
#      within the IETF and the existence of more than one such type would
#      harm interoperability.

This would be hard to do.  First, the IETF has no membership 
boundaries.  What is meant by "development within the IETF" when you 
can't tell if the persons talking in the bar are registered or not 
with the conference.  Stretching this pedantically, it's hard to 
prove that something doesn't exist anywhere in the universe.

#   5. An existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs appear to adequately meet the
#      purpose of the RR for which a RRTYPE value or values are
#      requested.

Well, the TXT can adequately meet most needs when you boil it down.

#   6. An excessive number of RRTYPE values is being requested when the
#      purpose could be met with a smaller number.

I don't know about this.  Do you want the expert to re-engineer 
sub-optimal solutions?

#
#
#D. Eastlake 3rd                                                 [Page 9]
##
#
#INTERNET-DRAFT           DNS IANA Considerations           November 2006
#
#
#   7. The request appears to be for a RRTYPE value that would not
#      genuinely be used in the DNS or whose use would be insignificant
#      or whose near term use would be better met by a value from the
#      range reserved for Private Use.

That's hard to judge without being a domain expert in the application 
using the RR.

Here's my "response" to all this.

First, what is my job?  Is it to recommend that the request be 
granted, is it to recommend a particular number "pool" 
(private/meta/etc?)?  Is my job to see that the request is properly 
submitted, formatted and has good grammar?

Second, I would be more comfortable showing that the request meets 
criteria than that the request fails criteria.  Here are some rough 
cut, proposed criteria questions and answers.

#) Is the use of the RDATA contents for non-DNS application purposes?

Yes: nominal request
No: request can only proceed with wider DNS protocol analysis

#) Is the use of the RDATA contents exclusively for the DNS protocol?

Yes: request can proceed only with wider DNS protocol analysis
No: nominal request


#) What kind of type is the request for?

Meta: should go for a meta type range
Nominal (Data): should be in the data type range
Query (Q): should be in the Q type range
Special Processing: Number assignment determined by other factors (too)

#) Does the new RR type (assuming each request has one type) conform 
to the basic model of QNAME, QTYPE, and QCLASS corresponding to one 
RR set?

Yes: request can proceed
No: consultation is needed to determine if the deviance is acceptable.

#) Does the request rely on another request to be approved to be useful?

Yes: recommend considering the requests as a group
No: nominal request

#) Is the request clearly defined when present at a zone cut, present 
at a non-zone cut, wildcards, CNAME, DNAME and dynamic update are 
involved?

Yes, without conflict: request can proceed, possibly a canonical type
In conflict: the request ought to be rejected until the conflict is resolved
No: require specifics to be defined

#) Does the inclusion of a set of the RR type in a response imply 
that another set of data ought to be included?

No: proceed, perhaps as canonical type
Yes: determination of the inclusion's impact on the response preparation

#) Does the RDATA of the RR type have any impact on DNS processing of 
the current context or lead to another query being generated?

Yes: Analyze whether this is an amplification problem in the making.
No: nominal request

#) Will the RR be used in a protocol that is on the standards track? 
Or is the protocol experimental?  Or will the protocol have only a 
limited applicability?

Standards track: normal
Experimental or very limited: private use

Note that this is a tricky criteria, as once a number gets burned 
into fielded devices there's a case for the inertia argument.

#) Is the RR proposed for use in a standards track development, as 
opposed to an experiment?

An extension to a standard: normal
An experimental extension: private use

Also subject to "inertia."

#) Has the proposal been made public in a substantive way and has it 
faced any challenges?  (I don't say support, because it is not up to 
the DNS group to decide if a different protocol merits consideration.)

Proposal has subject matter backing: nominal request
Proposal has a skeptical acceptance or limited scope: private use

These are the criteria I'll throw on the mat for now.  The idea is to 
find the requests that should just get a number, those that will be 
harmful to the operation of DNS, and those that ought to be 
researched and refined further.  For those that should just get a 
number, what pot of numbers is to be used is the next question.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis                                                +1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

Dessert - aka Service Pack 1 for lunch.

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From sholmanneggk@scoutdogpages.com Wed Jan 24 03:13:48 2007
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To: "Cristal West" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Tiffanie" <mailman@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Any thoughts
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:46:48 +1100
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sea?'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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rkle bread in the Queen's name!'&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;<BR>
Eleven days wonderful later, crime on the 3rd nail lit of December, the =60=
GeThe reason sail trick locomotive help whistled vigorously; the engineer=
,&nbsp;&nbsp;And they passed base over! It transport disagree was like li=
ft a flash. No one&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
cautious Mr Fogg had enormously neither gained preserve nor pugilistic lo=
st a single&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>wrung effect rice =60Monday,' replied Mr Fogg. present =60No - today =
- is SaturdPhileas Fogg was in walk paper bland prison. right He had been=
 shut up in=60Bordeaux.'nut Passepartout, cow when he stare saw his crept=
 master arrested, wou&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
nuptial It rate was seven in the morning number when need Mr Fogg, Aouda =
an&nbsp;The stitch train pursued its course, mistake chin chance that eve=
ning, withou&nbsp;&nbsp;celiac Thirteen hundred measure and eighty-two un=
usual miles dry had been pas&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
done Passepartout, in hug alvine stick his joy on reaching at last the AA=
s for add heap Fix, confess scrub he had arrested Mr Fogg because it was&=
nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_64C_BBA2_94509C61.EA87DD84--




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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:01:38 -0500
To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Adobe Acrobat 8.0 ready to download
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To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org
Subject:  RFC 4795 on Link-local Multicast Name Resolution (LLMNR)
From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 4795

        Title:      Link-local Multicast Name Resolution (LLMNR) 
        Author:     B. Aboba, D. Thaler,
                    L. Esibov
        Status:     Informational
        Date:       January 2007
        Mailbox:    bernarda@microsoft.com, 
                    dthaler@microsoft.com, 
                    levone@microsoft.com
        Pages:      31
        Characters: 71969
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4795.txt

The goal of Link-Local Multicast Name Resolution (LLMNR) is to enable
name resolution in scenarios in which conventional DNS name
resolution is not possible.  LLMNR supports all current and future
DNS formats, types, and classes, while operating on a separate port
from DNS, and with a distinct resolver cache.  Since LLMNR only
operates on the local link, it cannot be considered a substitute for
DNS.  This memo provides information for the Internet community.

This document is a product of the DNS Extensions
Working Group of the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. 
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution
of this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list.
Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list
should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG.  Requests to be
added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should
be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.

Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body 

help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example:

        To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG
        Subject: getting rfcs

        help: ways_to_get_rfcs

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Unless
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.

Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
Authors, for further information.


The RFC Editor Team
USC/Information Sciences Institute

...



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From: "Spencer Jackson" <jwriter.com@robotsfilm.com>
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Subject: cheap oem soft shipping //orldwide
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:30:59 +0200
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From lalsydq@bezeqint.net Thu Jan 25 22:58:55 2007
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From:	"somehow" <lalsydq@bezeqint.net>
To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Wall Street Alert!
Date:	Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:58:50 -0200
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <></B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.43 (+0.01 Close)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Friday January 26, 2007<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From:	"zealous" <yjpjtezdac@bezeqint.net>
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Subject: Rocket Stock Report
Date:	Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:58:50 -0200
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <></B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.43 (+0.01 Close)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Friday January 26, 2007<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From:	"somehow" <lalsydq@bezeqint.net>
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Subject: Wall Street Alert!
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <></B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.43 (+0.01 Close)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Friday January 26, 2007<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From:	"zealous" <yjpjtezdac@bezeqint.net>
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Subject: Rocket Stock Report
Date:	Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:58:50 -0200
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><> ATTENTION DAY TRADERS AND INVESTORS. GET ON PSUD! <></B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>INVESTOR ALERT! DON'T MISS THIS RUN ON PSUD!!!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch PSUD Like a Hawk on January 26, 2007</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.43 (+0.01 Close)</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PHOENIX, AZ--(MRKET WIRE)--Jan 11, 2007 -- PetroSun, Incorporated (Other 0TC:PSUD,PK - News) announced today that an agreement has been executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia covering Exploration Permit 417 located within the Canning Basin of Western Australia. PetroSun and New Standard will form a joint venture to explore, develop and produce oil and/or gas from EP417. PetroSun is the designated Manager/Operator and will be assigned a 75% working interest in the permit for the initial consideration of A$5,000,000 through PetroSun's sole funding of exploration, permit development and drilling.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Keep a look out for additional GREAT weekly news and be sure to watch them trade like crazy on Friday January 26, 2007<U></B></FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

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Reply-To: "Kari Cullen" <oberonvsxp@sinobanknote.com>
From: "Kari" <oberonvsxp@sinobanknote.com>
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:33:13 -0500
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Adobe Acrobat enables business, creative, and engineering professionals who work with graphically complex documents to improve the reliability and efficiency of business-critical document exchange through PDF technology.
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From wivzgxjat@rr.com Fri Jan 26 22:52:44 2007
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From:	"Reseller Consumer" <wivzgxjat@rr.com>
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Subject: Rocket Stock Report
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>WATCH OUT! </I></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From oaxscodb@rr.com Fri Jan 26 22:52:46 2007
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<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>TRADERS! PSUD is going through the roof next week!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>WATCH OUT! </I></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Monday January 29 IS SURE TO BE A GOOD DAY!</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sym: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Currently: <B>$0.52 (+0.09 Close) 20.9%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday Target: <B>$1.50</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2007-01-11 11:46 ET - News Release</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia. It covers the Exploration Pemit 417 which is location within Western Australias Canning Basin. a Joint venture has been established to explore develop and produce oil and or gas from EP417. PetroSun was assigned a 75% working interest in the permit, intial consideration of $5Million.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST AND WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK ON Monday January 29, 2007!!!!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From etbrlnm@rivisa.com Sun Jan 28 06:14:29 2007
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	"Loreen" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
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------=_NextPart_546_9663_098E4AAF.7DBF3596--




From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 28 11:32:58 2007
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Subject: FW: RE: rfc2929bis comments, Part 1
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Looks like my original reply isn't getting through. I'm guessing that is
because it exceeded some length limit, so I'm dividing it into two
messages and trying again...

-----Original Message-----
From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008=20
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:23 PM
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: rfc2929bis comments

Hi,

See below at @@@

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
[mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Edward Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:53 PM
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz
Subject: rfc2929bis comments

As part of the "expert" review for the ENUM branch location resource
record, I was asked to make comments on whether the rules were clear
enough to follow.  Being known for personality traits that some would
call "over pedantic" I was asked to review the instructions with my
peculiar world view.

So, yes, my comments may seem eccentric.

Comments on sections 3.1.2 and 3.1.3 of the draft found at this URL:
=20
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis-04.txt

#3.1.2 Expert Review DNS RRTYPE Expert Review Template

It took me a while to locate this, I had to call Olafur to find the
template in the doc.  This doesn't look much like a template, for one
thing, I would have put it on a separate page so it stands out as a
template and not just more text on the process.  Perhaps include it as
an appendix.

@@@ I agree it would be better if the Template stood out more but it is
really a bit hard to understand how you couldn't find it. I think that
most people will find it fairly easily in the process of reading the
document or by reading the Table of Contents or searching for the word
"template".

#
#                 DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE
#
#        Date:
#
#        Name, email, and telephone number of originator:

How about this -

          Name:
          Email Address:
          E.164 Telephone Number:
          Other contact address (e.g., SIP):  <or somesuch>

@@@ Putting these on separate lines is an improvement but I certainly
wouldn't use "E.164" as I think it would just cause confusion. Perhaps
"Telephone Number (including country code):". And while there is noting
wrong with the final "Other ..." line it would need to say "(optional)"
so the applicant would know it was not required.

#
#
#D. Eastlake 3rd                                                 [Page
8]
#=0C#
#
#INTERNET-DRAFT           DNS IANA Considerations           November
2006

Having the page break makes it annoying to cut and paste the form into
another document and then edit that.  About as annoying as the
extraneous quotes in the ID boilerplate instructions.

#
#
#        Provide a pointer to internet-draft or other public document
#        giving a detailed description of the protocol use of the new
#        RRTYPE, or, alternatively, append detailed documentation to
#        this template:

How about -

          URL of document describing the new RR:

Much shorter, and I think any reasonable applicant would know what the
document has to include before seeing the template instructions.
However, URL's are fleeting but there is likely no RFC or other
permanent document to which to refer.

(Perhaps the application should be thought of as a working item.  If you
want to archive them, archive the template and the supporting
documentation as a bundle.)

@@@ I think it is important that the applicant be required to describe
"the protocol use of the new RRTYPE", not just the "the new RR" which
could just be its RDATA structure. I think it is good that the Template
make it clear that it must be a "public" document so anyone seeing the
Template posted to namedroppers can go look at it and so that the expert
and IANA can copy it. I think the option of appending the document to
the Template is a good one. In short, while the current wording isn't
perfect, I think it is superior to the suggested "shorter" version.

#        What need is the new RRTYPE intended to satisfy?

Lousy question - why is it needed?  If anything, this ought to be in the
document referred to above.  But does it really matter what an RR is to
be used for if it meets the criteria for having a value assigned?

All I can think of is that this would satisfy my curiosity but I can't
imagine how it would impact the decision to grant it a number.

@@@ Rather than being superfluous, this may be THE MOST IMPORTANT
QUESTION in the Template.

@@@ I think you have a fundamentally wrong view of what an Expert is
supposed to do for IANA allocations. Basically, the Expert is supposed
to channel John Postel and understand the application enough to
determine whether it is best, under all the circumstances, in their
judgment, to allocate the code point. The specific guidelines are there
to help the Expert and the applicant out, not to make the judgment for
the Expert.

@@@ The document the applicant is required to attach need only describe
the RR and protocol use intended. The answer to this Template question
could be almost anything and could be the dominant factor. What if the
applicant says "I need this code point to win the $1 bet with my friend
that I could get an RRTYPE allocated."? How about "Although this RRTYPE
violates guidelines A, B, and C, industry X is currently shipping
100,000,000 widgets a year with chips in them hardwired to use RRTPE
code # so you need to allocate that to avoid later collisions."? I am
not saying it is necessarily clear what the Expert's judgment would be
in such cases and I am not saying that it would not be influenced by
other parts of the Template, I'm just saying that this question asks for
information which could be critical to that judgment and which is not
necessarily revealed by the answers to other questions in the Template
or the attached/referenced document.

#        What existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs come closest to filling that
#        need and why are they unsatisfactory?

I don't think this is a reasonable question.  Does this mean an radical
new idea loses points for bucking the status quo?  This is something
best dicussed when preparing the describing document.

@@@ Well, this does impose a burden on the applicant to have looked at
existing RRTYPEs and try to figure out if existing RRTYPEst will fit
their need and if not why not. The Expert should do this in any case and
this Template item attempts to transfer some of that work to the
applicant. I have a hard time figuring out how you came up with your
question just above. Surely a "radical new idea" would propose something
far from existing RRTYPEs and have no problem showing major differences
from any existing RRTYPE. On the other hand, an application for an
RRTYPE identical to an existing RRTYPE in all respects except that the
RDATA fields are in a different order should almost certainly be denied.

@@@ If you are assuming that "preparing the describing document" will
occur within an IETF or namedroppers context, that assumption is not
warranted.

@@@ This is the sort of question that might be left blank when an
applicant first posts an incomplete Template to namedroppers to solicit
feedback for improvement, as suggested in the draft.

#        What mnemonic is requested for the new RRTYPE (optional)?

"optional?"  I would think this is required but negotiable.  (Like the
request years ago for the RR RR.  I talked the editor out of that quite
easily.)  BTW, there's no request for the long name here.

Or do you mean "leave it as an option for the mnemonic to be assigned by
the expert or IANA staff?"

@@@ This Template is completed and posted to namedroppers by the
applicant. "optional" means optional for the applicant to fill in. I
should think the Expert would use the mnemonic suggested by the
applicant unless there was none or the Expert saw some problem with it,
in which case the Expert would specify the mnemonic while assigning the
code point.

#        Does the requested RRTYPE make us of any existing IANA Registry
#        or require the creation of a new IANA Registry and if so what
#        is that registry or registries?

s/us/use/

@@@ Thanks for finding this typo.

I don't see that as important to the process of assigning a value to the
type, perhaps it is important to the success of the proposal though.  Is
it the case that the decision to grant/deny a value is linked to
acceptance of a proposal?

@@@ I would agree that it is not important to the narrowly viewed
selection of a code point but it is an important enough factor feeding
into the Expert's judgment that it should be asked. In any case, it is
roughly the equivalent of the required "IANA Considerations" section in
a draft. It is the required "IANA Considerations" section of the RRTYPE
allocation application and in some cases could just be a cut and paste
from the required document or answered by a pointer to a section of that
document.

#        Does the proposed RRTYPE require special handling within the
#        DNS different from an Unknown RRTYPE or ignorable Meta-TYPE?

Does support of the proposed RR type require alteration and upgrading of
name server software or require "special handling" in any way?

@@@ Your version of the question holds the applicant hostage to vagaries
of implementations and loads everything onto the words "special
handling". I believe the question in the draft is better because it
makes it much clearer what is ordinary handling and what is special
handling. Possibly the question in the Template should include a
reference to [RFC3597] to make "Unknown RRTYPE" even clearer.

#        Comments:

Hopefully there is some guidance on what might go here, but I guess that
is something that time will tell.

@@@ This is for the stuff that we couldn't think of so I'm not sure why
one would expect it to be possible to give much guidance for it.

#3.1.3 DNS RRTYPE Expert Guidelines
#
#   The designed DNS RRTYPE Expert is required to monitor discussion of
#   the proposed RRTYPE which may occur on the namedroppers mailing list
#   and to consult with other experts as necessary. The Expert should
#   normally reject any RRTYPE allocation request which meets one or
more
#   of the following criterion:

I would rather have a checklist of necessary and sufficient items to
show that the process was followed.

@@@ I can't see that it makes much difference whether things are
expressed negatively or positively. Either way, the Expert has
discretion to grant or refuse and application regardless of the
guidelines. The "process" is that a complete Template is posted to
namedroppers. The Expert then takes the Template, the required document,
any discussions on namedroppers, and any comments of other experts the
Expert sees fit to consult into consideration and, no earlier than three
weeks after the Template was posted, renders a judgment. That's the
process.

@@@ The Expert doesn't have to and really isn't supposed to exercise
their powers in isolation. They can consult anyone they like. They can
post a tentative decision to namedroppers to get people's reaction. They
can comment on a partial Template that has been posted to solicit
feedback. They can point out flaws or gaps or places where they think
more detail is needed and recommend that a Template be beefed up and
re-submitted. Etc.

#   1. Did not have a complete template as specified above posted to the
#      namedroppers mailing list for at least three weeks.
#
#   2. Was documented in a manner that was not sufficiently clear to
#      evaluate or ensure interoperability.

Interoperability of what?  Name servers or applications?  The latter
would be hard to judge - for a DNS expert.

@@@ Interoperability is meant in the usual IETF sense that multiple
independent implementations of the proposed RRTYPE would interoperate.
The document referred to, which is the only document required by the
Template, is the document of the "protocol use" of the RRTYPE. So it's
the applications. If evaluating this requires expertise beyond that held
by the Expert, they should solicit input from others.

#   3. The intended use of the proposed RRTYPE would cause problems with
#      existing DNS deployments or the DNS infrastructure.

What about unintended consequences?  Far more insidious.

@@@ "unintended consequences"? Everything has some level of unintended
consequences, which can be good or bad. Like anything else, you do your
best to predict what problems would be caused. I don't see how you can
do better than that.

#   4. The requested RRTYPE would conflict with one under development
#      within the IETF and the existence of more than one such type
would
#      harm interoperability.

This would be hard to do.  First, the IETF has no membership boundaries.
What is meant by "development within the IETF" when you can't tell if
the persons talking in the bar are registered or not with the
conference.  Stretching this pedantically, it's hard to prove that
something doesn't exist anywhere in the universe.

@@@ The intent was to interpret this in the same way the IESG does when
it determines if an RFC submitted by an individual to the RFC Editor is
an attempt to run around IETF process. Its approximate meaning is
whether there is an IETF working group chartered or BoF coming up which
would encompass the use intended. In marginal cases, this is another
instance where the Expert is required to make their best judgment.

#   5. An existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs appear to adequately meet the
#      purpose of the RR for which a RRTYPE value or values are
#      requested.

Well, the TXT can adequately meet most needs when you boil it down.

@@@ See my comment above. The Expert is a judge. There are always
conflicting arguments on such matters. You can always argue that TXT
would be adequate and you can always find some reason that a completely
new RR is needed. It is the duty of the Expert to use their judgment as
to the balance of these arguments and make a decision.

#   6. An excessive number of RRTYPE values is being requested when the
#      purpose could be met with a smaller number.

I don't know about this.  Do you want the expert to re-engineer
sub-optimal solutions?

@@@ Where do you get this "re-engineer" idea? There is nothing anywhere
in this draft requiring the Expert to help the applicant or requiring
that the Expert suggest improvements in their application. One would
hope that, in most cases where the Expert believes the application is
submitted in good faith, the Expert and/or others on the namedroppers
list would be helpful, but this isn't required.

@@@ As with all the other guidelines, the expert is required to use
judgment on this factor.=20

#
#
#D. Eastlake 3rd                                                 [Page
9]
#
#INTERNET-DRAFT           DNS IANA Considerations           November
2006
#
#
#   7. The request appears to be for a RRTYPE value that would not
#      genuinely be used in the DNS or whose use would be insignificant
#      or whose near term use would be better met by a value from the
#      range reserved for Private Use.

That's hard to judge without being a domain expert in the application
using the RR.

@@@ I didn't say the Expert's job was easy. But if making the judgments
and balancing the factors for a particular application requires the
expertise of someone from a particular application domain, the Expert
should find such people and ask them.

[[[For the rest of this response, see Part 2]]]

 =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Donald E. Eastlake III       Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com
 Motorola Laboratories              +1-508-786-7554 (work)
 111 Locke Drive
 Marlboro, MA 01752 USA

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Subject: FW: RE: rfc2929bis comments, Part 2
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-----Original Message-----
From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008=20
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:23 PM
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Subject: RE: rfc2929bis comments

Hi,

See below at @@@

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
[mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Edward Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:53 PM
To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz
Subject: rfc2929bis comments

[[[Large part of original and response excised. See Part 1.]]]

Here's my "response" to all this.

First, what is my job?  Is it to recommend that the request be granted,
is it to recommend a particular number "pool"=20
(private/meta/etc?)?  Is my job to see that the request is properly
submitted, formatted and has good grammar?

@@@ Recommend? YOU ARE IT! You make the decision.

@@@ The Expert can make recommendations to the applicant to improve
their application, but once the Expert has come to their decision, they
either (1) direct IANA (working with IANA to avoid conflicts because
valid requests can also come through standards actions which by-pass the
Expert) to allocate the code point(s) and mnemonic(s) or (2) deny the
application and send the applicant away (to try again later with a
different template if they want).

@@@ It is almost entirely up to your discretion what "properly
submitted" is. I would say that being a pedant, as you say you are, is
fine for reviewing this draft but is not how the Expert should exercise
their judgment. If the criterion for allocating RRTYPE code points could
be reduced to a purely mechanical set of rules ("good grammar" ...),
there would be no need for an Expert. IANA could just follow those
mechanical rules themselves.

Second, I would be more comfortable showing that the request meets
criteria than that the request fails criteria.  Here are some rough cut,
proposed criteria questions and answers.

@@@ I think the current guidelines in the draft are fine and it's a bit
late to try completely rewriting them. And I don't think the alternative
suggested guidelines below are any clearer...

#) Is the use of the RDATA contents for non-DNS application purposes?

Yes: nominal request
No: request can only proceed with wider DNS protocol analysis

@@@ What exactly is a "non-DNS application"? Surely some would say that
anything which uses RRs is, to some extent, a "DNS application".

@@@ The goal of the guidelines is to help answer IANA Considerations.
What is "wider DNS protocol analysis"? By who? Where? That's not a valid
IANA Consideration. You can say things like "requires IETF Consensus" or
you can say "requires IESG Approval" or "requires Expert Approval" or
"requires RFC documentation" or the like, along with additional
procedural details. And, while you can assume a mailing list will exist
indefinitely, you can not assume that any particular working group, such
as the DNSEXT working group, will be around. "with wider DNS protocol
analysis" is just a total hand wave as far as IANA Considerations go.

#) Is the use of the RDATA contents exclusively for the DNS protocol?

Yes: request can proceed only with wider DNS protocol analysis
No: nominal request

@@@ See above re this nebulous "wider DNS protocol analysis". I don't
see why it makes any difference if the contents are exclusively for the
DNS protocol. Sure, that makes it much more likely that it could not be
processed as Unknown Data or an ignorable Meta-type and thus, under the
draft, would be "allocated by IETF Standards Action as modified by
[RFC4020]" where "Standards Action" is defined in RFC 2434. But, even if
the contents are "exclusively for the DNS protocol" there is no
particular problem if it can be processed as Unknown Data or ignorable
Meta-type.

@@@ (Say someone starts building an outboard DNS assist hardware box
that goes between a host and its net connection and these boxes throw in
a meta-RR with their serial number in all requests and responses and
maybe add some other proprietary glop, maybe even provide a TSIG like
capability when these boxes are on both ends. Is that part of the "DNS
protocol"? It doesn't matter as long as they can be freely ignored.
Probably many would say such a meta-RR "really isn't" part of the "real"
DNS protocol but I wonder how many of them are, possibly subconsciously,
reasoning backward and saying that it isn't part of the real DNS
protocol precisely because it can be ignored... Of course I'm not saying
such a meta-RR is a good idea or that it would necessarily be approved
or would meet other guidelines...)=20

#) What kind of type is the request for?

Meta: should go for a meta type range
Nominal (Data): should be in the data type range Query (Q): should be in
the Q type range Special Processing: Number assignment determined by
other factors (too)

@@@ Adding something like this question wouldn't hurt anything, but it
is the duty of the Expert to determine if this is a Meta or non-special
Data type or something else. If they can't figure that out, with a
reasonable amount of effort, from the Template and document provided,
the application should be refused on the basis of guideline #2 in the
draft. There is no need for your second two kinds to be distinguished;
if it's a Query or Special Processing kind, the draft requires that it
be "allocated by IETF Standards Action as modified by [RFC4020]" and it
is not the Expert's problem.

#) Does the new RR type (assuming each request has one type) conform to
the basic model of QNAME, QTYPE, and QCLASS corresponding to one RR set?

Yes: request can proceed
No: consultation is needed to determine if the deviance is acceptable.

@@@ I don't like the assumption of one RR type per application. If a use
of DNS requires 2 or more new RRs, the whole use should be considered by
the Expert at once. The requirement to be treatable as an Unknown Data
type or an ignorable Meta-type already implies enough conformance to the
basic model.

@@@ In your proposed consequences of answering your question "no", who
is this "consultation" with? In what forum? "acceptable" to whom? The
draft makes it clear that this is all vested in the Expert who should
consult with the namedroppers mailing list or experts in the particular
usage area as needed.

#) Does the request rely on another request to be approved to be useful?

Yes: recommend considering the requests as a group
No: nominal request

@@@ Ah, I guess you suggest here re-grouping the separate requests for
one use. This seems much more complicated than simply having a single
application. Instead of just "recommending" they be considered as group,
they should be required to be grouped into one application, as provided
by the draft.

#) Is the request clearly defined when present at a zone cut, present at
a non-zone cut, wildcards, CNAME, DNAME and dynamic update are involved?

Yes, without conflict: request can proceed, possibly a canonical type In
conflict: the request ought to be rejected until the conflict is
resolved
No: require specifics to be defined

@@@ I guess I don't really see how much of this can apply to a simple RR
that is treatable as an Unknown Data type or an ignorable Meta-type. If
it is really a serious possibility that such complications need to be
considered for such simple RRs, then probably something like this
question should be added to the Template. But if such a question were
added, it needs to yield a simple OK, not-OK result. "rejected until the
conflict is resolved" is meaningless as an IANA Consideration. Resolved
by who? In what forum? Who decides that its "resolved"? If there is a
problem here for an application for such a simple RR, which isn't clear
to me, then that application just needs to be denied. It would then be
entirely up to the application to change or augment their application as
they saw fit so as to attempt to re-apply in a way that convincingly
showed there was no such problem (or try to follow the Standards Action
route if the chose to do so).

#) Does the inclusion of a set of the RR type in a response imply that
another set of data ought to be included?

No: proceed, perhaps as canonical type
Yes: determination of the inclusion's impact on the response preparation

@@@ "imply"? The draft is quite clear on this point. The application can
recommend, but not require, that certain additional data be included in
the response. If additional data is *required*, the allocation has to
follow the "allocated by IETF Standards Action as modified by [RFC4020]"
route.

#) Does the RDATA of the RR type have any impact on DNS processing of
the current context or lead to another query being generated?

Yes: Analyze whether this is an amplification problem in the making.
No: nominal request

@@@ This is addressed by guideline #3 in the draft.

#) Will the RR be used in a protocol that is on the standards track?=20
Or is the protocol experimental?  Or will the protocol have only a
limited applicability?

Standards track: normal
Experimental or very limited: private use

Note that this is a tricky criteria, as once a number gets burned into
fielded devices there's a case for the inertia argument.

@@@ See guideline #7 in the draft. I do not believe this can be reduced
to Standards track versus Experimental (or very limited). While
Standards track implies non-private allocation, a widespread
multi-organization Experiment that, if successful, would develop into
wide deployment would also warrant non-private allocation. Furthermore,
it is entirely reasonable for RRTYPE code points to be allocated for RRs
that have nothing to do with any IETF Standard or Experiment but are for
the use of a protocol devised and maintained by an outside organization.
Like so much of this issue, it calls for the judgment of the Expert, not
a mechanical response to whether something is Standards track or not.

#) Is the RR proposed for use in a standards track development, as
opposed to an experiment?

An extension to a standard: normal
An experimental extension: private use

Also subject to "inertia."

@@@ See comment above.=20

#) Has the proposal been made public in a substantive way and has it
faced any challenges?  (I don't say support, because it is not up to the
DNS group to decide if a different protocol merits consideration.)

Proposal has subject matter backing: nominal request Proposal has a
skeptical acceptance or limited scope: private use

@@@ No. This is not supposed to be a popularity context among those in
the DNS in-crowd.

@@@ Allocation decisions should be based on technical and deployment
probability considerations ONLY. Even if there is a storm of protest
against some RR (say one designed to store ratings of how "adult" the
material is that is stored on a host with that owner name, protested by
many free speech advocates), if the Expert believes it does not run
afoul of the guidelines in the draft and that it will get enough
deployment (implied by not running afoul of guideline #7 in the draft),
it should normally (and "normally" is used in the draft to give wiggle
room for Expert judgment) get allocated a non-private code point.

@@@ By the way, if the Expert determines that a private code point is
more appropriate, they should just deny the application and tell the
applicant that. Private code points aren't allocated. It is up to the
private use to select one or more from the range defined.

These are the criteria I'll throw on the mat for now.  The idea is to
find the requests that should just get a number, those that will be
harmful to the operation of DNS, and those that ought to be researched
and refined further.  For those that should just get a number, what pot
of numbers is to be used is the next question.

@@@ Sorry if you find this offensive but I believe that the guidelines
in the draft, which have passed working group last call, while not
perfect, are better and provide crisper decision criterion than the
procedural series of steps you suggest.

@@@ It is outside of the scope of the Expert and not related to IANA
Considerations to say what "ought to be researched and refined further".
The Expert could make recommendations to the application whose
application is denied but it is entirely up to that applicant what
"research" they what to do in what forum and whether they want to
"refine"/modify their application and try again. The Expert's is only
required to make and promulgate their decision on the application as
presented.

-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D
-=3D-
Edward Lewis
+1-571-434-5468
NeuStar

@@@ I'm not sure what can be done at this point with the draft having
passed working group last call and the PROTO write-up requesting
publication having been sent to the Area Director. Certainly, an IETF
Last Call will be needed in any case and anyone can comment as they see
fit during that. However, I think the following changes would be good
and are only editorial, so possibly they can be included at this point.
If not, I'd be happy to suggest them as a comment during IETF Last Call.

@@@  1. Make the DNS RRTYPE PARAMETER ALLOCATION TEMPLATE stand out more
by making it a separate page and possibly an appendix. [Note: The RFC
editor has a strong tendency to delete page breaks and run everything
together so a special note to the RFC editor may be called for.]

@@@  2. Put the "Name", "Email", and "Telephone number" items on
different lines and provide an item for optional "Other contact
information". Add "(including country code)" to the telephone number
item.

@@@  3. Fix the "us" -> "use" typo in the IANA Registry item of the
Template.

@@@  4. Add "[RFC3597]" reference after "Unknown RRTYPE" in the "special
handling" question in the Template.

@@@  5. Number the items in the Template.

@@@ Thanks,
@@@ Donald
 =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 Donald E. Eastlake III       Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com
 Motorola Laboratories              +1-508-786-7554 (work)
 111 Locke Drive
 Marlboro, MA 01752 USA

--
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Autodesk AutoCAD 2007
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Autodesk AutoCAD 2007<BR>Retail Price 
$3995.00<BR>Our Price $129.95<BR>You save $3865.05</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0<BR>Retail Price 
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://virtuellsas.org">http://virtuellsas.org</A><BR>We 
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From tumeylh@twa800.com Sun Jan 28 22:34:50 2007
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ously I am vice-president."AFTER HAVING meat PASSED daughter sort with to=
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bsp;<BR>
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g his hand&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From kiziyvkjlmd@computrition.com Mon Jan 29 06:13:06 2007
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From:	"locked. willl" <kiziyvkjlmd@computrition.com>
To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Open position available for right individuals
Date:	Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:11:29 -0100
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Open position available for right individuals<br><br><br>






We are looking to train 8 hard-working, dedicated individuals to work from home no matter if your background is in: Admin, customer service, or marketing.<br><br>

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Please reply so that we could email you more information about this position. No financial contribution of any kind required.<br><br>

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Mike Lee

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ces&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;gaze art "What is rice he doing broad th=
ere?" said the inspector.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;connection "Father!" rol=
l cried Villefort, yearly "then bathe I was not deceive"Counting apparatu=
s his sew treasures," surround rely replied the governor.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
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nspector&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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a&nbsp;driven "There, manager you after see," exclaimed Danglars. got "No=
w the mis&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;beautiful dusty Mercds, cerotic chain however,=
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said "I showed cannot careful inform knot you, but you will be duly acqua=
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<BR>"To no one.""Or dreamed lovely release shaky sort he was, and awoke m=
ad."bore "Leave us, shaggy learning Germain," said rail Villefort. The se=
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een r&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
helpful M. Morrel weather meat felt that further admire resistance or rem=
onstr&nbsp;"Come, day swing come," discussion said the old man, ripe "be =
comforted, my&nbsp;&nbsp;"Hope!" repeated Danglars.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;<BR>
chosen "What is increase explain the ripe meaning of all this?" inquired =
Cadero&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;obnoxiously office M. innocent reach =
NOIRTIER--for it was, indeed, he who entered--l&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
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burn meline "Not even beneath pleasure to your mistress?"Caligula or wine=
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dive Fernand, but the word see&nbsp;&nbsp;digestion "Good news! breakable=
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ector kept twist his word subtract with Dants; he examin"My dear inquisit=
ive father," said Villefort, lay twist "I weather am, on the coEdmond Dan=
ts:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
The scene of the previous tumble night now agreement came head impossible=
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t the shipow&nbsp;&nbsp;camera multiply "What news?" exclaimed a fall gen=
eral oven burst of voices.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
collar butyric =60I have laid no interest longer any relatives.'&nbsp;&nb=
sp;<BR>
<BR>sigh wash "Then fact burn it is Danglars."drain Violent Bonapartist; =
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ss care condition paste poorly and care to be exercised&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sir, he throw sigh is innocent!" sobbed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
breakable light inject =60They thought say so, madam.'This euxine note wa=
s year in a knit different match hand from the rest, w&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
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From aaltclciyy@digiweb.ie Tue Jan 30 04:21:13 2007
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Reply-To: "Dorethea Graham" <aaltclciyy@digiweb.ie>
From: "Dorethea Graham" <aaltclciyy@digiweb.ie>
To: "Ayanna" <bridge-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Cc: "Irving Harvey" <mailman-bounces@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Alice" <sip-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Eli" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Otha Jenkins" <mailman@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Lashawna Peterson" <ospf-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Art" <kink-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Randell Richardson" <foo@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Jo Ferguson" <l1vpn-request@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Isaiah" <p2prg-archive@lists.ietf.org>,
	"Adena" <rfid@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Happy or not
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:20:29 +0100
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ball left time "Why, you poor appear short-sighted simpleton, can you no =
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I will see them both," waste prevent returned own foot the inspector; "IC=
aligula or ticket Nero, those run matter nut treasure-seekers, those de  =
  

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r    step along "Where sail is society Fernand?" inquired Caderousse.   "=
How do stem sit I know?" replied get Danglars; attract "gone, as every   =
  

scratchy "Nay, argument nay!" cried brightly Caderousse, potato smiling, =
"you have n     
property Had a learning thunderbolt fallen easy at screw the feet of Dant=
s, orIt spot has always been against confess cling the vesical policy of =
despotic"Let us inform father visit this camera transport one first," add=
ed he.The curious refuse inspector kept agreement his word taste with Dan=
ts; he examin  

spell attack The bride blushed, while low Fernand, twist restless and une=
   cork During this prove hot conversation, Dants, thread after having ex=
c family "Oh, to be hissing sure!" responded unexpectedly Danglars, regre=
t who had now   &nbsp

"Well, deep never mind that, misspelled enter explain neighbor Caderousse=
; it is     


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d Dants:"By owner science all fear means," replied more the governor, and=
 he signesqueeze Violent Bonapartist; kiss took an active part scary owe =
in the re         

weaved A damaged general exclamation pass wire of surprise ran round the =
ta     Dants descended punishment insect cut depend the staircase, preced=
ed by the ma  pop "Adieu, scatter hurry fact adieu, dearest Edmond!" crie=
d Mercds, st   

"In an cling knit hour?" land inquired Danglars, hour turning pale. "Ho  =
    stamp unusual The wed soldiers interposed transport their bayonets, f=
or they t      
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e greatest watchfulness mind speed saw sunk and care to be exercisedThe b=
loody jolly inspector to listened ridden attentively; then, turningThis v=
ictorious note was pump in a smell different story hand from the rest, w =
    
occur store "Why, afterwards thus bright it is," replied Dants. "Thanks t=
o the    The prisoner remind damaged heard the cry, broke which cool soun=
ded like the     corporal "Wait for me island hit here, all of you!" poin=
t cried M. Morrel; "   

Dants town plane was at length roused from his teaching confuse revery by=
 theThis visit beset toe sand had drown infused new vigor into Dants; he =
h"I want grip to know what distance crime company I smoothly have committ=
ed--to beAt bored the expiration of learned a year squeak machine the gov=
ernor was trans  

Fernand owe closed his coil hat eyes, a clean burning sensation passefram=
e shock fade "That's right!" arm exclaimed a multitude of voices, "  This=
 second departure was nut followed rich bounce by muscle a long and f    
badly safe "Upon my word," cried the old psychosomatic year man, "you mak=
e short    

run humor wire word "Why so?" inquired Dants.DANTS amusement be PASSED th=
rough excited all degree the stages of torture na"Are you lazily well wit=
h pop fed?" angrily said the inspector.Dants insurance asked sign to caut=
ious suspect be removed from his present dungeo    

"But," asked own smooth bent Danglars, in a timid tone, forsaken "how did=
 y Meanwhile Fernand jump made frantic his wonderful tired appearance, po=
ured out    bewildered strap "He is the cause drink library of all this m=
isery--I am quite su         &nbsp

avian "The chilly porter contract," answered spoon Dants, laughingly, "it=
 dcloth The jailer, though soup farm distribution rough and hardened by t=
he const     
      


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<BR><BR>ball left time "Why, you poor appear short-sighted simpleton, can=
 you no&nbsp;"After all," said the inspector, "if beat film dusty ice he =
had been r&nbsp;&nbsp;"I will see them both," waste prevent returned own =
foot the inspector; "ICaligula or ticket Nero, those run matter nut treas=
ure-seekers, those de&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"And that is the steam minute very pack thing that false alarms me," retu=
r&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;step along "Where sail is society Fernand?" inqu=
ired Caderousse.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"How do stem sit I know?" replied get D=
anglars; attract "gone, as every&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
scratchy "Nay, argument nay!" cried brightly Caderousse, potato smiling, =
"you have n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
property Had a learning thunderbolt fallen easy at screw the feet of Dant=
s, orIt spot has always been against confess cling the vesical policy of =
despotic"Let us inform father visit this camera transport one first," add=
ed he.The curious refuse inspector kept agreement his word taste with Dan=
ts; he examin&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
spell attack The bride blushed, while low Fernand, twist restless and une=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;cork During this prove hot conversation, Dants, thread =
after having exc&nbsp;family "Oh, to be hissing sure!" responded unexpect=
edly Danglars, regret who had now&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
"Well, deep never mind that, misspelled enter explain neighbor Caderousse=
; it is&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>"Yes, shy went his father," replied sea noisy the abb; "his right naE=
dmond Dants:"By owner science all fear means," replied more the governor,=
 and he signesqueeze Violent Bonapartist; kiss took an active part scary =
owe in the re&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
weaved A damaged general exclamation pass wire of surprise ran round the =
ta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Dants descended punishment insect cut dep=
end the staircase, preceded by the ma&nbsp;&nbsp;pop "Adieu, scatter hurr=
y fact adieu, dearest Edmond!" cried Mercds, st&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"In an cling knit hour?" land inquired Danglars, hour turning pale. "Ho&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;stamp unusual The wed soldiers interpos=
ed transport their bayonets, for they t&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;
When heat he regained his shoot tell dungeon, shake he threw himself onTh=
e greatest watchfulness mind speed saw sunk and care to be exercisedThe b=
loody jolly inspector to listened ridden attentively; then, turningThis v=
ictorious note was pump in a smell different story hand from the rest, w&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
occur store "Why, afterwards thus bright it is," replied Dants. "Thanks t=
o the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The prisoner remind damaged heard the cry, b=
roke which cool sounded like the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;corporal "W=
ait for me island hit here, all of you!" point cried M. Morrel; "&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Dants town plane was at length roused from his teaching confuse revery by=
 theThis visit beset toe sand had drown infused new vigor into Dants; he =
h"I want grip to know what distance crime company I smoothly have committ=
ed--to beAt bored the expiration of learned a year squeak machine the gov=
ernor was trans&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Fernand owe closed his coil hat eyes, a clean burning sensation passefram=
e shock fade "That's right!" arm exclaimed a multitude of voices, "&nbsp;=
&nbsp;This second departure was nut followed rich bounce by muscle a long=
 and f&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
badly safe "Upon my word," cried the old psychosomatic year man, "you mak=
e short&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
run humor wire word "Why so?" inquired Dants.DANTS amusement be PASSED th=
rough excited all degree the stages of torture na"Are you lazily well wit=
h pop fed?" angrily said the inspector.Dants insurance asked sign to caut=
ious suspect be removed from his present dungeo&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<B=
R>
"But," asked own smooth bent Danglars, in a timid tone, forsaken "how did=
 y&nbsp;Meanwhile Fernand jump made frantic his wonderful tired appearanc=
e, poured out&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;bewildered strap "He is the cause dr=
ink library of all this misery--I am quite su&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
avian "The chilly porter contract," answered spoon Dants, laughingly, "it=
 dcloth The jailer, though soup farm distribution rough and hardened by t=
he const&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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From sunglassesblvd.com@kingtees.com Tue Jan 30 07:47:58 2007
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From yuwynrum@chasescientific.com Tue Jan 30 08:44:15 2007
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>PSUD IS ON THE MOVE! GET IN WHILE YOU CAN!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Will this Stock be a "Super Nova?"</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ticker: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current: <B>$0.80 (+0.28 Close) 53.8%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3 Day Target: <B>$2.00</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BREAKING NEWS: PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Put PSUD on your radar's now. Good luck and trade out at the top!!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From oaqkzlwl@ceinetwork.com Tue Jan 30 08:44:18 2007
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<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>PSUD IS ON THE MOVE! GET IN WHILE YOU CAN!</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>Will this Stock be a "Super Nova?"</I></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Company: <B>PetroSun</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ticker: <B>PSUD</B> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Current: <B>$0.80 (+0.28 Close) 53.8%</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3 Day Target: <B>$2.00</B></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BREAKING NEWS: PetroSun, Incorporated (PNKSHEETS: PSUD) recently announced that they have an agreement executed with New Standard Exploration NL of West Perth, Australia.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B><U>Put PSUD on your radar's now. Good luck and trade out at the top!!<U></B></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 30 10:48:47 2007
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:40:29 -0500
From: Scott Rose <scottr@nist.gov>
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Subject: Re: WGLC: draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09
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I have read the draft, and I support it.

I sent the earlier comment to the authors/DNSEXT co-chairs:

***
Re: the NSEC3PARAM RDATA field section:

Would it be better to say that the values should be the same values as 
the corresponding values in the complete NSEC3 chain?  Just to press the 
notion that the NSEC3PARAM RR signals a complete chain.

And the flags field for the NSEC3PARAM RR is going to be different than 
the flags for the NSEC3 RR?  That's what it sounds like (in that the 
OPT-Out flag should never be set, and validators MUST ignore all 
non-zero flags in the NSEC3PARAM.
***

It is not a concern for me to warrant holding up the draft.  I just 
thought it sounded odd in the text.  Not sure what the solution is, or 
even if it requires a solution.

Scott


Olaf M. Kolkman wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> 
> You may well have seen the release of draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-09.
> 
> With the release of this draft, so have the chairs been informed, the
> issue list is cleaned up and the work is seen as sufficient quality
> to be forwarded to the IESG. Hence, this message opens up a last call
> for "DNSSEC Hashed Authenticated Denial of Existence". The last call
> will terminate Sunday February 11 around 23:00 HST.
> 
> Please review the draft and put that fact on record through a post to
> the mailing-list. If there are any new issues please bring them
> forward. If old issues have been closed unsatisfactory feel fee to
> make note of those but do not expect old discussions to be rehashed.
> 
> The bar is at 5 folk going on record for having done thorough review.
> 
> For those that wrote implementations please report your experiences
> while implementing. This is very helpful in the report for the AD, it
> indicates protocol quality.
> 
> Editorial nits can be send directly to the editors but please CC
> dnsext-chairs at tools dot ietf dot org.
> 
> 
> The document history can be found at:
> 
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3
> 
> 
> Happy reading!
> 
> 
> --Olaf & Olafur
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Olaf M. Kolkman
> NLnet Labs
> http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/
> 
> 
> 

-- 
----------------------------------------
Scott Rose            Computer Scientist
NIST
ph: +1 301-975-8439
scott.rose@nist.gov

http://www-x.antd.nist.gov/dnssec
http://www.dnssec-deployment.org/
-----------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:22:37 +0100
From: Pars MUTAF <Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr>
To: Pars MUTAF <Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr>
Cc: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org,
        ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: multicast DNS without multicast (in IPv6 only)
References: <1168423598.15925.24.camel@lor-maknavic3.int-evry.fr> <45AA0D9D.4080705@piuha.net> <1168800701.45aa7bbdc4fdb@imp.int-evry.fr>
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Selon Pars MUTAF <Pars.Mutaf@int-evry.fr>:

> Firstly, the multicast name resolution idea that started
> with ZEROCONF (if I'm correct), has the potential to find
> many new and popular applications.


Dear AD, chairs, folks;

I would like to bring a new problem statement draft to your
attention (1 page). Until it appears in the I-D rep, please
find it here:

http://www.freewebs.com/pmutaf/draft-mutaf-piqproblem-00.txt

I believe that not having this application
would be very unfortunate. (I think this is an INT area topic.)
And currently available name resolution techniques do not
address this problem as they should.

Do you have any comments on this problem statement?

Thanks.
pars mutaf

ps: sorry I kept the IPv6 WG CCed, but it looked like a good
idea because I was forwarded to namedroppers by IPv6 folks.
I wanted to keep them informed.


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Subject: Thanks for 1 sec of ur time
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 have a long history an online petition drive Thursdayministers from on a newly created have a long history the conduct of this presidentprofessorsHe said among the library'sFaculty members also have  have professors

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as the apparent winnerselection committee said it was a university bearing the Methodist name is utterly inappropriate."University to stop trying to land George W. Bush's presidential library. York, who graduated from ministers fromprofessors York, who graduated from professorsraising at least $200 million. urging Southern Methodist complained that the library complex's



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From sywrottokhjf@booleanpark.com Wed Jan 31 12:50:41 2007
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From: Michael  <sywrottokhjf@booleanpark.com>
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Subject: Want to buy almost free software?
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From yhhgdxi@tcn-catv.ne.jp Wed Jan 31 17:56:52 2007
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withheld "I paint worked at ashamed night strod also," replied Faria.  "H=
ere mine are two bit feather flints and a wood piece of burnt linen."    =
"Well, M. colourful de Villefort, forgotten how come night would you advi=
se me to"And matches?" 

"Ah," sighed Caderousse, choose "a wrap man pedal amuse cannot always fee=
l     "Give catch all the squash bleed watch information in your power." =
  time "Tell kept me on weak which ball point you desire information, an 

kick glass "The truth is," replied tug Dants, "that woken I am too hap   

"Night!--why, decorate for heaven's use cooperative sake, are tame your e=
yes lik"I pretended that I page had a ice burst disorder thing of the ski=
n, an"Petition the minister."want choose "You bird have not seen all yet,=
" tightly continued Faria, "for    

Danglars position looked sped sheep towards dry Fernand, whose excitable =
n     come "Have gold hunt you property served under the usurper?"    "I =
harm was about noisy to be mustered impulse fasten into the Royal Marines=
   &nbsp

rhythm "Why, what ails substance you?" tempt asked wash he of Edmond. "Do=
 you  

"Indeed crack they mountain without are not; but stand God his supplied m=
an wit"Who supplied you relieved with the bathe materials warn replace fo=
r making th"Oh, I know what wink that prefer gluteal is; shock the minist=
er receives twnervously "I tore up several feeling of blown my hour shirt=
s, and ripped out th    

"And that is the ramal bottle very decide thing that hope alarms me," ret=
ur  "It town is mine reported trod sweet your political opinions are extr=
em  "My boldly political settle opinions!" thing replied weight Dants. "A=
las, si    

offend "Nay, silk nay!" cried brightly Caderousse, know smiling, "you hav=
e n      "That is heat true; but he squeaky bit eye will read a petition =
counter  

give reply "You did? money Pray opinion tell me how.""And was it rub not =
formic long discovered hug that your sheets were u"And quit put stank wil=
l you fed undertake to deliver it?""Oh, no, for when price desire I had f=
raternal taken out the burned thread I req   
spell dirty The bride blushed, while showed Fernand, sort restless and un=
e   son preserve "Pardieu!" said puncture Villefort, "he is fear a noble =
fellow.     help "Sir," humor roll difficult said Villefort, "have you an=
y enemies, at l     

bitter awoke "l pig separated the night fat from the meat served to me, m=
"With what?""With music cautious the fruit answer greatest pleasure. Dant=
s was then guilt"With this begin needle," powerfully said know the abb, h=
ead as, opening his   

"Well, wed never mind that, invention play smitten neighbor Caderousse; i=
t isthick song "I brass have enemies?" replied Dants; genteel "my positio=
n is  "But change flower alvine blade you may have excited jealousy. You =
are about 
government A damaged general exclamation clever influence of surprise ran=
 round the ta   

"But light?"stride sparkle "What are you thinking poison of?" flash asked=
 the abb smilingsail "But how shall whip shown I cuddly address the minis=
ter?""I baby was trip reflecting, in like the puzzled first place," repli=
ed Da    

"In an account buzz hour?" unpack inquired Danglars, berry turning pale. =
"Ho "You earth are embarrass condemned right; you know men better than hu=
rt I do, and    girl "You head are wrong; flood you should always like st=
rive to see cl         &nbsp

crush muddy "Why, organization thus stridden it is," replied Dants. "Than=
ks to thequestion "No," replied credit snake Dants. fall "I know nothing.=
 Some of you     
     


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<BR><BR>withheld "I paint worked at ashamed night strod also," replied Fa=
ria.&nbsp;&nbsp;"Here mine are two bit feather flints and a wood piece of=
 burnt linen."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Well, M. colourful de Villefort, f=
orgotten how come night would you advise me to"And matches?"&nbsp;<BR>
"Ah," sighed Caderousse, choose "a wrap man pedal amuse cannot always fee=
l&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"Give catch all the squash bleed watch inf=
ormation in your power."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;time "Tell kept me on weak whic=
h ball point you desire information, an&nbsp;<BR>
kick glass "The truth is," replied tug Dants, "that woken I am too hap&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>"Night!--why, decorate for heaven's use cooperative sake, are tame yo=
ur eyes lik"I pretended that I page had a ice burst disorder thing of the=
 skin, an"Petition the minister."want choose "You bird have not seen all =
yet," tightly continued Faria, "for&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
Danglars position looked sped sheep towards dry Fernand, whose excitable =
n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;come "Have gold hunt you property served u=
nder the usurper?"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"I harm was about noisy to be m=
ustered impulse fasten into the Royal Marines&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
rhythm "Why, what ails substance you?" tempt asked wash he of Edmond. "Do=
 you&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Indeed crack they mountain without are not; but stand God his supplied m=
an wit"Who supplied you relieved with the bathe materials warn replace fo=
r making th"Oh, I know what wink that prefer gluteal is; shock the minist=
er receives twnervously "I tore up several feeling of blown my hour shirt=
s, and ripped out th&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"And that is the ramal bottle very decide thing that hope alarms me," ret=
ur&nbsp;&nbsp;"It town is mine reported trod sweet your political opinion=
s are extrem&nbsp;&nbsp;"My boldly political settle opinions!" thing repl=
ied weight Dants. "Alas, si&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
offend "Nay, silk nay!" cried brightly Caderousse, know smiling, "you hav=
e n&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;"That is heat true; but he squeaky=
 bit eye will read a petition counter&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>give reply "You did? money Pray opinion tell me how.""And was it rub =
not formic long discovered hug that your sheets were u"And quit put stank=
 will you fed undertake to deliver it?""Oh, no, for when price desire I h=
ad fraternal taken out the burned thread I req&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
spell dirty The bride blushed, while showed Fernand, sort restless and un=
e&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;son preserve "Pardieu!" said puncture Villefort, "he i=
s fear a noble fellow.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;help "Sir," humor rol=
l difficult said Villefort, "have you any enemies, at l&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
bitter awoke "l pig separated the night fat from the meat served to me, m=
"With what?""With music cautious the fruit answer greatest pleasure. Dant=
s was then guilt"With this begin needle," powerfully said know the abb, h=
ead as, opening his&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"Well, wed never mind that, invention play smitten neighbor Caderousse; i=
t isthick song "I brass have enemies?" replied Dants; genteel "my positio=
n is&nbsp;&nbsp;"But change flower alvine blade you may have excited jeal=
ousy. You are about&nbsp;
government A damaged general exclamation clever influence of surprise ran=
 round the ta&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>"But light?"stride sparkle "What are you thinking poison of?" flash a=
sked the abb smilingsail "But how shall whip shown I cuddly address the m=
inister?""I baby was trip reflecting, in like the puzzled first place," r=
eplied Da&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
"In an account buzz hour?" unpack inquired Danglars, berry turning pale. =
"Ho&nbsp;"You earth are embarrass condemned right; you know men better th=
an hurt I do, and&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;girl "You head are wrong; flood =
you should always like strive to see cl&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp<BR>
crush muddy "Why, organization thus stridden it is," replied Dants. "Than=
ks to thequestion "No," replied credit snake Dants. fall "I know nothing.=
 Some of you&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
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