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An implementation may refuse > to load or transfer a zone that contains a wildcarded DNAME, but there > is no direct protocol specification. > > I'd be very welcome to better text. :) You could strengthen it by changing the MAY to a SHOULD. (I am not commenting on whether that's a good idea -- I can see arguments in each direction.) 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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C808BE.0388CEF4-- From ilopxgfkho@boulderpeak.com Sun Oct 07 07:02:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeTti-0007JU-GG; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:02:10 -0400 Received: from f048231049.adsl.alicedsl.de ([78.48.231.49] helo=steffi-y6btzjrt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeTsf-0003pS-OL; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:02:04 -0400 Received: from [78.48.231.49] by smtp.secureserver.net; , 7 Oct 2007 12:00:31 +0100 From: "Marquita Draper" To: Subject: Police: Student marked with 'KKK' at deaf school Date: , 7 Oct 2007 12:00:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C808D1.47022890" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QGE82GIRI7K959E32JPNWJV09S== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Message-ID: <01c808d1$47022890$31e7304e@ilopxgfkho> X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: dc7bd83d90806aed39f33478866e2683 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C808D1.47022890 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C808D1.47022890" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C808D1.47022890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hong Kong's Hang Sen was also up 3.89 percent -- gaining more than 1,000 points -- at 28,047. "It becomes a psychological phenomenon. Investors know that there are inherent risks in the market, but at the same time, they're rationalizing any bad news." "Sometime during the time she went into custody, she went into medical distress," he said. "But I have seen him verbally and mentally assault many people," Allen told CNN. "He's good with mind games. He's good at twisting people's realities and manipulating people." Someone close to Stiles told investigators Stiles is a "survivalist type" and always carries a weapon, Nye County District Attorney Bob Beckett said. Betsy Gotbaum called Carol Ann Gotbaum "a wonderful, wonderful person" and a great mother. She said the family was dealing with the situation "the best way we can." A spokeswoman for the Maricopa County medical examiner said an autopsy would be conducted Monday morning.(CNN) -- Darren Tuck, the man who gave police a tape depicting the rape of a 3-year-old girl, turned himself in Sunday to Nye County, Nevada, authorities. In Asia on Tuesday, Tokyo's Nikkei 225 gained 200 points to close up 1.19 percent at 17,047, its highest finish since August 9. Technology companies Sony (4.2 percent) and Canon (2.6 percent) and automakers Nissan (3 percent) were among the biggest gainers. CNN and other news organizations did so until the child was found, and De Meo asked media to stop showing the picture. Carol Ann Gotbaum may have accidentally strangled herself while trying to get out of her handcuffs, Phoenix Police Department spokesman Sgt. Andy Hill said Saturday. "According to investigators, it appeared as though Ms. Gotbaum had possibly tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, got tangled up in the process, and they ended up around her neck area," he said. The Dow Jones industrial average added nearly 192 points to end at an all-time high of 14,087.55 points on Monday amid hopes that banks have put the worst of the recent 'credit crunch' behind them and expectations that the Federal Reserve will continue to cut interest rates. Finding Gotbaum "unconscious and not breathing," Hill said, officers performed CPR. Witnesses told police that Gotbaum was "yelling and screaming" and running through the terminal Friday. She was arrested for disorderly conduct. Allen said nobody realized the child had been abused. While handcuffed, the New Yorker became "disruptive" and she was taken to a holding room, where she was left alone, Hill told CNN affiliate KTVK. "The mother has cooperated with us," De Meo said. "We believe that the mother was not aware of anything that went on with this young girl. It was very sad for her to find this out." Investigators said officers went to check on her five to 10 minutes later. Police policy requires that be done every 15 minutes. Authorities have identified Chester A. Stiles, 37, as the suspect in the tape. A resident of Pahrump, Nevada, he remains at-large, De Meo said. Pahrump is about 60 miles west of Las Vegas. Stiles was a distant friend of the girl's family, De Meo said. ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C808D1.47022890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hong Kong's Hang Sen was also up 3.89 percent -- gaining more than 1,= 000 points -- at 28,047.

"It becomes a psychological phenomenon. Investors know that there are= inherent risks in the market, but at the same time, they're rationalizin= g any bad news."

"Sometime during the time she went into custody, she went into medica= l distress," he said.

"But I have seen him verbally and mentally assault many people," Alle= n told CNN. "He's good with mind games. He's good at twisting people's re= alities and manipulating people."

Someone close to Stiles told investigators Stiles is a "survivalist t= ype" and always carries a weapon, Nye County District Attorney Bob Becket= t said.

Betsy Gotbaum called Carol Ann Gotbaum "a wonderful, wonderful person= " and a great mother. She said the family was dealing with the situation = "the best way we can."

A spokeswoman for the Maricopa County medical examiner said an autops= y would be conducted Monday morning.

(CNN) -- Darren Tuck, the man who gave police a tape depicting th= e rape of a 3-year-old girl, turned himself in Sunday to Nye County, Neva= da, authorities.

In Asia on Tuesday, Tokyo's Nikkei 225 gained 200 points to close up = 1.19 percent at 17,047, its highest finish since August 9. Technology com= panies Sony (4.2 percent) and Canon (2.6 percent) and automakers Nissan (= 3 percent) were among the biggest gainers.

CNN and other news organizations did so until the child was found, an= d De Meo asked media to stop showing the picture.

Carol Ann Gotbaum may have accidentally strangled herself while tryin= g to get out of her handcuffs, Phoenix Police Department spokesman Sgt. A= ndy Hill said Saturday.

"According to investigators, it appeared as though Ms. Gotbaum had po= ssibly tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, go= t tangled up in the process, and they ended up around her neck area," he = said.

The Dow Jones industrial average added nearly 192 points to end at an= all-time high of 14,087.55 points on Monday amid hopes that banks have p= ut the worst of the recent 'credit crunch' behind them and expectations t= hat the Federal Reserve will continue to cut interest rates.

Finding Gotbaum "unconscious and not breathing," Hill said, officers = performed CPR.

Witnesses told police that Gotbaum was "yelling and screaming" and ru= nning through the terminal Friday. She was arrested for disorderly conduc= t.

Allen said nobody realized the child had been abused.

While handcuffed, the New Yorker became "disruptive" and she was take= n to a holding room, where she was left alone, Hill told CNN affiliate KT= VK.

"The mother has cooperated with us," De Meo said. "We believe that th= e mother was not aware of anything that went on with this young girl. It = was very sad for her to find this out."

Investigators said officers went to check on her five to 10 minutes l= ater. Police policy requires that be done every 15 minutes.

Au= thorities have identified Chester A. Stiles, 37, as the suspect in the ta= pe. A resident of Pahrump, Nevada, he remains at-large, De Meo said. Pah= rump is about 60 miles west of Las Vegas.

Stiles was a distant friend of the girl's family, De Meo said.

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TimurPeake@honks.se Sun Oct 07 13:14:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeZhs-0001w9-SS for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:14:20 -0400 Received: from [81.193.17.75] (helo=[81.193.17.75]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeZhn-0006sN-Vj for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:14:16 -0400 Received: from admin-63faa5828 ([136.104.123.22] helo=admin-63faa5828) by [81.193.17.75] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1doWic-000XQT-YS for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2007 18:14:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c80905$820c74c0$4b11c151@admin63faa5828> From: "Timur Peake" To: Subject: altand|r Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 18:14:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8090D.E3D0DCC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8090D.E3D0DCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.pleuibs.com/ What's up dnsext-archive its the size of ones penis that determines success Timur Peake ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8090D.E3D0DCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://www.pleuibs.com/

What's up dnsext-archive

its the size of ones penis that determines = success

Timur Peake
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Wassup dnsext-archive

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C80C5E.04BB0635-- From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Oct 11 20:17:16 2007 Return-path: <> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8DM-0002tB-Da for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:17:16 -0400 Received: from 52.208.216.87.static.jazztel.es ([87.216.208.52] helo=mail.egasystem.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8DG-0003mN-2K for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:17:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by mail.egasystem.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) id l9C0H0HN001265; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:17:00 +0200 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:17:00 +0200 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <200710120017.l9C0H0HN001265@mail.egasystem.com> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="l9C0H0HN001265.1192148220/mail.egasystem.com" Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a This is a MIME-encapsulated message --l9C0H0HN001265.1192148220/mail.egasystem.com The original message was received at Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:48 +0200 from [190.9.200.234] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown) (reason: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown) (reason: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown) (reason: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to [192.168.200.13]: >>> DATA <<< 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown --l9C0H0HN001265.1192148220/mail.egasystem.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.egasystem.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; [190.9.200.234] Arrival-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:48 +0200 Final-Recipient: RFC822; as@egasystem.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; [192.168.200.13] Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:56 +0200 Final-Recipient: RFC822; asralcanas@egasystem.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; [192.168.200.13] Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:56 +0200 Final-Recipient: RFC822; avanhardpromociones@egasystem.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; [192.168.200.13] Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:56 +0200 Final-Recipient: RFC822; bfraile@egasystem.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; [192.168.200.13] Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:56 +0200 --l9C0H0HN001265.1192148220/mail.egasystem.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from 190.9.200.234 ([190.9.200.234]) by mail.egasystem.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9C0GdHN001237; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:16:48 +0200 Received: from [10.0.32.195] by 190.9.200.234 id a5PRYO3mKlGa; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:16:40 +0300 Message-ID: <003501c80c65$214d3f80$c320000a@190.9.200.234> From: "Juliya P." To: "Eric" Subject: Re[1]: let's be friends, dear Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:16:40 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Eric Do you agree with me that love is like a good wine which you want to drink more and more? I am in search of my second half who will enjoy this love-drink with me the whole life. I found you here and would not like to lose you again. I know that we are strangers for each other, but I want to believe that time will pass and we will become native souls for each other. If you are single at present time and your heart is free, if you believe in our future love, I will wait for your letter every day http://kgbbride.info/?idAff=101 Kiss-kiss Julia P --l9C0H0HN001265.1192148220/mail.egasystem.com-- From boray-lewis@CGZFS.COM Thu Oct 11 21:06:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8zE-0007qt-LQ for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:44 -0400 Received: from host25-166-static.23-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([87.23.166.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8z2-0005kV-9V for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:32 -0400 Received: from angelo by CGZFS.COM with ASMTP id 72193EF2 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:04:17 +0200 Received: from angelo ([139.121.193.124]) by CGZFS.COM with ESMTP id 8A43FC2C3D68 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:04:17 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:03:58 +0200 To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "boray lewis" Subject: peuplion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed whatz craken dnsext-archive my lover grabbed my dick and asked me what i had done to it boray lewis http://blathon.com/ From aviddvpro@k66.ru Thu Oct 11 21:08:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig90j-0000qY-6t for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:17 -0400 Received: from [201.230.143.227] (helo=client-201.230.143.227.speedy.net.pe) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig90c-0005ZK-Oz for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:12 -0400 Received: from jch ([134.172.135.43]) by client-201.230.143.227.speedy.net.pe with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:07:53 -0500 Message-ID: <470EC8E9.8050300@k66.ru> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:07:53 -0500 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Please open your ecard. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Kitty Kards, sent just for you. http://69.228.193.30/ From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 12 07:06:29 2007 Return-path: <> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgILd-0000xL-S0 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:06:29 -0400 Received: from relayout.eni.it ([212.17.199.37] helo=etsv01cs.eni.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgILX-0007g4-GN for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:06:29 -0400 Received: from sxsv0009.sieco.pri ([10.130.1.18]) by etsv01cs.eni.it (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9CB5te8003307 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:05 +0200 X-ifm: IsSpam X-SpamFlag: YES X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmXmABbwDkd6qEtBRmdsb2JhbACGWYJqhQM Subject: DELIVERY FAILURE: User m_venezia (m_venezia@eniservizi.eni.it) not listed in public Name & Address Book X-IFM: IsSpam Message-ID: <00af01c80cbf$d44a8700$8d0e000a@221-135-133-102.sify.net> From: Postmaster@sieco.pri To: "Juliya P" Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:05:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2007 11:06:02.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[E09CFA10:01C80CBF] X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on SXSV0009/SRV/SIECO/IT(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/10/2007 13.06.04, Serialize by Router on SXSV0009/SRV/SIECO/IT(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/10/2007 13.06.06, Serialize complete at 12/10/2007 13.06.06 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="==IFJRGLKFGIR22554UHRUHIHD" X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 --==IFJRGLKFGIR22554UHRUHIHD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your message Subject: [ifmSpamCheck: IsSpam]Re[3]: To you my dear! was not delivered to: m_venezia@eniservizi.eni.it because: User m_venezia (m_venezia@eniservizi.eni.it) not listed in public Name & Address Book --==IFJRGLKFGIR22554UHRUHIHD Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns;sxsv0009.sieco.pri Final-Recipient: rfc822;m_venezia@eniservizi.eni.it Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Diagnostic-Code: X-Notes; User m_venezia (m_venezia@eniservizi.eni.it) not listed in public Name & Address Book --==IFJRGLKFGIR22554UHRUHIHD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from ensv01xk.eni.pri ([10.130.2.59]) by sxsv0009.sieco.pri (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.12) with ESMTP id 2007101213060407:85333 ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:04 +0200 Received: from ensv11ks.enirf.res.prirf ([10.131.20.80]) by ensv01xk.eni.pri with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:03 +0200 Received: from ensv11ks.enirf.res.prirf ([10.131.20.80]) by ensv11ks.enirf.res.prirf with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:02 +0200 Received: from relayin.eni.it ([172.31.254.235]) by ensv11ks.enirf.res.prirf with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:02 +0200 Received: from slim-5a.inet.it (unknown [213.92.5.128]) by relayin.eni.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C01215867; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ip-1a.mail.inet.it ([::ffff:213.92.5.150]) by slim-5a.inet.it via I-SMTP-5.4.4-547 id ::ffff:213.92.5.150+t3XQ91PcfvSL; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:00 +0200 Received: from abts-mp-dynamic-065.75.168.122.airtelbroadband.in ([122.168.75.65]) by gw.mail.inet.it with ESMTP; 12 Oct 2007 13:05:53 +0200 Received: from [10.0.14.141] by 221-135-133-102.sify.net id jdee3UQsPk49; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:05:47 +0300 X-ifm: IsSpam X-SpamFlag: YES X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmXmABbwDkd6qEtBRmdsb2JhbACGWYJqhQM Subject: [ifmSpamCheck: IsSpam]Re[3]: To you my dear! X-IFM: IsSpam Message-ID: <00af01c80cbf$d44a8700$8d0e000a@221-135-133-102.sify.net> From: "Juliya P" To: "Guenther" Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:05:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2007 11:06:02.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[E09CFA10:01C80CBF] X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on SXSV0009/SRV/SIECO/IT(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/10/2007 13.06.04, Serialize by Router on SXSV0009/SRV/SIECO/IT(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 12/10/2007 13.06.06, Serialize complete at 12/10/2007 13.06.06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, Guenther Don't laugh if I say that since my girlhood I wanted to get married very much. It was my lifetime dream which is still alive into my heart. I want to get married, because I don't understand such life when you are alone, you get up at silent room and you are not responsible for somebody and your heart is empty. My heart and my mind are against such selfish way of life. I looked at your profile, I read it attentively and the first thought which visited me was: This man is so interesting and smart, that I won't be I if I don't try to get acquainted with him. I hope that my frank letter about marriage's dreams won't make you feel scared and doubtful. I am sincere with you because It is my character. If i love, I love to death, if I am romantic I will present to you all stars in the sky. I can be different and life wont' become dull if you decide to be with me and to share life with me. I hope that you will think about me and write me, you can find me here http://kgbbride.info/?idAff=101 Waiting for your mail Julia P. --==IFJRGLKFGIR22554UHRUHIHD-- From Manolo.Beluffi@eniservizi.eni.it Fri Oct 12 07:06:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgILm-0000yI-W4 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:06:38 -0400 Received: from relayout.eni.it ([212.17.199.37] helo=etsv01cs.eni.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgILc-0007g5-KH for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:06:33 -0400 Received: from ensv01xk.eni.pri (ensv01xk.eni.pri [10.130.2.59]) by etsv01cs.eni.it (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9CB64Rq003378 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:04 +0200 Received: from ensv00vl.enirf.res.prirf ([10.130.1.55]) by ensv01xk.eni.pri with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:04 +0200 Received: from ENSV11L1.enirf.res.prirf ([10.131.203.94]) by ensv00vl.enirf.res.prirf with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C80CBF.E1790AAA" Subject: Risposta automatica Fuori sede: [ifmSpamCheck: IsSpam]Re[3]: To you my dear! Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:06:04 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ifmSpamCheck: IsSpam]Re[3]: To you my dear! Thread-Index: AcgMv+FLNOX4hPxPRW6bvTlSjp5RXAAAAAoC From: "Beluffi Manolo" To: "Juliya P" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2007 11:06:04.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1836270:01C80CBF] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80CBF.E1790AAA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sono in trasferta dal giornio 10/10/07 al 12/10/07 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------=0D Message for the recipient only, if received in error, please notify the= sender and read http://www.eni.it/disclaimer/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C80CBF.E1790AAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Risposta automatica Fuori sede: [ifmSpamCheck: IsSpam]Re[3]: To you= my dear!
Sono in trasferta dal giornio 10/10/07 al 12/10/07

----------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:45:59 -0400 Message-ID: <471263E7.2050405@chamada.com.br> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:45:59 -0400 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Big announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Physical Is Moving To New Ground. Physical Property Holdings Inc. PPYH $0.25 Restructure at Physical is taking off as they begin hitting the HK Real Estate Market. This team is moving already. Grabbing several high profit locations in Hong Kong and area. Monday will be a big day for this one, get your broker on it as the trading warms up. 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This isn't efficient, and more than a cupful of tars will have accumulated in his lungs by the time of his premature death. - Other disadvantages of smoking: You must always carry cigarettes and matches; your pockets bulge - or there's less space in your purse; smelly breath; smelly house; smelly clothes; messy rugs and furniture, often burned; cigarettes lying around for kids to smoke (and matches to light); you're a bad influence on kids; you're held in low esteem by your kids and your friends (even your smoking friends); the inside of your home and auto windows need cleaning more often; death or property loss due to smoking in bed. - Air pollution (auto exhausts, industry wastes, etc.) increases the lung cancer rate of the smoker, but not of the non-smoker. Apparently, the lung-cleaning cilia are alive and working for the non-smoker. - Secondhand smoke from a parent's cigarette increases a child's chances for middle ear problems, causes coughing and wheezing, and worsens asthma conditions. But there's still a chance ! Get more info If you stop smoking you will get many advantages: - Ex-smokers have better health than current smokers. Ex-smokers have fewer days of illness, fewer health complaints, and less bronchitis and pneumonia than current smokers. - Ex-smokers have better health than current smokers. Ex-smokers have fewer days of illness, fewer health complaints, and less bronchitis and pneumonia than current smokers. LiveFree is an all natural anti smoking patch that WILL WORK for you View more information ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C80FF3.54259D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Quit smoking all together
- The cilia are tiny, delicate, hairlike coverings on the thin membrane of= the surface of the lungs and trachea that, by means of their whipping, bea= ting action, produce an upward current of foreign material and mucus from t= he lungs which is then swallowed or expectorated. This is the way the body= cleans the lungs. This delicate lung-cleaning mechanism, in a cigarette sm= oker, at first paralyzes, then deteriorates, and is eventually made inopera= tive, through the complete destruction of the cilia. The smoker then must r= esort to coughing as a lung-cleaning method. This isn't efficient, and more= than a cupful of tars will have accumulated in his lungs by the time of hi= s premature death.
- Other disadvantages of smoking: You must always ca= rry cigarettes and matches; your pockets bulge - or there's less space in y= our purse; smelly breath; smelly house; smelly clothes; messy rugs and furn= iture, often burned; cigarettes lying around for kids to smoke (and matches= to light); you're a bad influence on kids; you're held in low esteem by yo= ur kids and your friends (even your smoking friends); the inside of your ho= me and auto windows need cleaning more often; death or property loss due to= smoking in bed.
- Air pollution (auto exhausts, industry wastes, etc.)= increases the lung cancer rate of the smoker, but not of the non-smoker. A= pparently, the lung-cleaning cilia are alive and working for the non-smoker= .
- Secondhand smoke from a parent's cigarette increases a child's chan= ces for middle ear problems, causes coughing and wheezing, and worsens asth= ma conditions.

But there's still a chance !

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This mail > will highlight the mayor changes to the document. The rfc-diff file is > included as well. > > 1) The NSEC3PARAM Record. > > There was confusion about the NSEC3PARAM record, in that it was thought to > be processed in validators and resolvers. We have now made it explicit > that the NSEC3PARAM is solely needed by authoritative servers to determine > proper parameters. > > 2) Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > > In section 12.1.3 ("Using New or Unknown Hash Algorithms"), the statement > "It is suggested that a similar technique to the one being used in this > specification to protect older clients be employed (see Section 2.)" was > unclear. We have now rewritten that section (12.1.3) and it now contains a > transition scenario. This is the exact same scenario as was suggested in > the previous text. Subsequently, this caused the DNSKEY alias algorithm > allocated in this specification to be used with SHA1 (for NSEC3 > algorithms) only. These two changes look quite reasonable to me. What's the next action? Can the IESG to move forward with the document now? 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------=_NextPart_000_03F2_01C8111C.3F6D18D0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 17 20:19:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiJ6W-0007Ke-Tx; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:19:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiJ6Q-00021L-OM; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:19:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiIyn-000LjU-Q8 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 00:11:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiIyk-000Liy-7n for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 00:11:11 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (mail.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9I0B1NC061341 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:11:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:10:12 -0400 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 10.20.30.6 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Dear colleagues, During the IESG evaluation of this documents a number of clarifications were suggested to the document. As Roy stated in his message there is no change in what the working group agreed to before sending the document to the IESG. See IESG discussion at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3/? For complete history of changes to the document see: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3/ For process reason this message starts a 1 week, comment period where members of the WG can raise issues with word changes in the document or explain why the new text differs from prior working group consensus. At the end of this comment period on Oct 25'th the chair plans to notify the IESG that the working group has no issues with the changes in the document, and request the DISCUSS on the document be cleared. Silence will be taken as an agreement that the textual changes are improvements in documentation, and do not affect the working group consensus. Statements saying you have reviewed the changes are greatly appreciated. Olafur At 04:42 17/10/2007, Roy Arends wrote: >The authors of the NSEC3 document have just released the latest version of >the NSEC3 draft, version 12. > >The previous version went through extensive IESG review, which >subsequently brought the need for clarification on some topics. This mail >will highlight the mayor changes to the document. The rfc-diff file is >included as well. > >1) The NSEC3PARAM Record. > >There was confusion about the NSEC3PARAM record, in that it was thought to >be processed in validators and resolvers. We have now made it explicit >that the NSEC3PARAM is solely needed by authoritative servers to determine >proper parameters. > >2) Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > >In section 12.1.3 ("Using New or Unknown Hash Algorithms"), the statement >"It is suggested that a similar technique to the one being used in this >specification to protect older clients be employed (see Section 2.)" was >unclear. We have now rewritten that section (12.1.3) and it now contains a >transition scenario. This is the exact same scenario as was suggested in >the previous text. Subsequently, this caused the DNSKEY alias algorithm >allocated in this specification to be used with SHA1 (for NSEC3 >algorithms) only. > >Thanks, > >Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From HalarcingDuran@fontstock.net Thu Oct 18 01:20:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiNoQ-00049f-RE for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:20:50 -0400 Received: from 207-255-12-215-dhcp.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net ([207.255.12.215] helo=hogue.atlanticbb.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiNoM-00012y-68 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:20:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host26729608.fontstock.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id DgAm659d93.204982.e8J.Xa1.3067342621518 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:19:08 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Brain Dalton" To: Subject: Hi Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:19:08 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_CA0D_01C81146.A7A0DF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_CA0D_01C81146.A7A0DF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_CA0D_01C81146.A7A0DF20-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 04:01:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiQK2-0002Ku-6a; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:01:38 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiQJv-00067o-Va; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:01:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiQBb-000C36-Hq for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:52:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiQBY-000C2c-Qc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:52:54 +0000 Received: from gary.nlnetlabs.nl (gary.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:216:76ff:feb8:1853]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9I7qbJX093738; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:52:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wouter@nlnetlabs.nl) Message-ID: <471710C5.1060608@nlnetlabs.nl> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:52:37 +0200 From: Wouter Wijngaards User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (X11/20070727) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_/DNSEXT_chair?= CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:52:40 +0200 (CEST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 �lafur Gu�mundsson /DNSEXT chair wrote: > See IESG discussion at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3/? > > For complete history of changes to the document see: > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3/ > > Statements saying you have reviewed the changes are greatly appreciated. I have reviewed the -12 and -11 changes and they are fine. I note that the changes do not affect my existing implementation. >> 1) The NSEC3PARAM Record. >> >> There was confusion about the NSEC3PARAM record, in that it was >> thought to >> be processed in validators and resolvers. We have now made it explicit >> that the NSEC3PARAM is solely needed by authoritative servers to >> determine >> proper parameters. Indeed, that would not work, since a validator, due to time and caching may get NSEC3PARAMs with different content than the NSEC3-parameters that it gets in other (older or newer) messages. 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------=_NextPart_000_5089_01C81161.FAA2C3D0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 05:03:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiRHe-00047v-6l; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 05:03:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiRHd-0007nD-0S; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 05:03:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiRAE-000MBy-AZ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:55:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [81.91.160.27] (helo=denic.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiRAB-000M7D-Rq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:55:33 +0000 Received: by unknown.office.denic.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8332054C677; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:55:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:55:24 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Cc: iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, Message-ID: <20071018085524.GD5305@unknown.office.denic.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 09:42:58AM +0100, Roy Arends wrote: > The authors of the NSEC3 document have just released the latest version o= f=20 > the NSEC3 draft, version 12. > 1) The NSEC3PARAM Record. > 2) Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm FWIW, I support these two clarifications. -Peter --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHFx98a9NtQQpmHpIRAq9zAKCll4GsISDTojMPJde5cvA1fL0Z7QCgo+fD RDtw71igMFKZEPRkE4Cu5rw= =Rc2N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From deepa-Lemmo@umbra.zzn.com Thu Oct 18 06:03:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiSDp-0001JW-Q4 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:03:21 -0400 Received: from dyndsl-085-016-009-194.ewe-ip-backbone.de ([85.16.9.194] helo=dyndsl-085-016-007-159.ewe-ip-backbone.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiSDa-00018l-VZ for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:03:17 -0400 Received: from backup-server by umbra.zzn.com with ASMTP id CA80F4FD for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:58:27 +0200 Received: from backup-server ([117.182.140.77]) by umbra.zzn.com with ESMTP id 692CC61A6195 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:58:27 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c8116d$68415a40$4b091055@backupserver> From: "deepa Lemmo" To: Subject: paasbest Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:58:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8117E.2BCA2A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8117E.2BCA2A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey you dnsext-archive no need to feel shy when you slap her in the face with ya dick http://www.hofsac.com/ deepa Lemmo ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C8117E.2BCA2A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81188.3D810830-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 07:47:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiTqv-0001yS-FH; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:47:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiTqk-0005WR-6i; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:47:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiTjI-000Oug-Qp for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:39:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiTjG-000OuE-7Y for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:39:55 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,295,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="10529129" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2007 12:39:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Cc: Stephen Kent , Sam Hartman , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: From: Roy Arends Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:39:51 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 18/10/2007 12:39:52 PM, Serialize complete at 18/10/2007 12:39:52 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Olafur Gudmundsson wrote on 10/18/2007 02:10:12 AM: > Dear colleagues, > > During the IESG evaluation of this documents a number of clarifications > were suggested to the document. As Roy stated in his message there is no > change in what the working group agreed to before sending the document > to the IESG. My post was referring to changes between version 11 and 12. Between version 10 and version 11, there was a change as well. The original text in the rationale of version 10 reads: A second problem is that the cost to cryptographically secure delegations to unsigned zones is high for large delegation-centric zones and zones where insecure delegations will be updated rapidly. For these zones, the costs of maintaining the NSEC RR chain may be extremely high relative to the gain of cryptographically authenticating existence of unsecured zones. The new text in the rationale of version 11 and 12 reads: A second problem is that the cost to cryptographically secure delegations to unsigned zones is high, relative to the perceived security benefit, in two cases: large, delegation-centric zones, and zones where insecure delegations will be updated rapidly. In these cases, the costs of maintaining the NSEC RR chain may be extremely high and use of the "Opt-Out" convention may be more appropriate (for these unsecured zones). The history and rationale behind that change is as follows: 1) During the security directorate review, Stephen Kent noted: "The second argument appears to be based on a tradeoff analysis between the costs of signing the NSEC RRs and the perceived security from use of this mechanism. This seems to be an apples/oranges sort of argument that requires much more justification." The authors agreed with that, and asked Stephen Kent to rewrite that section, which resulted in the new text in the rationale. 2) During the IESG review, Sam Hartman asked us to either iterate that change back to the WG and measure consensus on it, or roll back the change to the previous version. To the authors, rolling back the change to the original version would re-raise Stephen Kent's point, hence we went for the first option, and thus this post is a result of Sam Hartman's request. Since I'm not in a position to call for consensus on this textual change, I'd like you to consider it as part of Olafur's request: > For process reason this message starts a 1 week, comment period where > members of the WG can raise issues with word changes in the document > or explain why the new text differs from prior working group > consensus. Thanks, Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 08:11:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiUDp-0007Jd-3O; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:11:29 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiUDn-0006Cs-Tb; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:11:29 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiU8J-00044J-3X for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:05:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [129.6.16.226] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiU8G-00043X-6x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:05:45 +0000 Received: from [129.6.140.98] (98-140.antd.nist.gov [129.6.140.98]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IC5YhX023418 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:05:34 -0400 Message-ID: <47174C0E.2080809@nist.gov> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:05:34 -0400 From: Scott Rose Organization: NIST User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (X11/20070530) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 �lafur Gu�mundsson /DNSEXT chair wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > > Silence will be taken as an agreement that the textual changes are > improvements > in documentation, and do not affect the working group consensus. > Statements saying you have reviewed the changes are greatly appreciated. > I read the changes and I agree with them. I think the new text is good. Scott -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 09:23:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiVLc-0004QR-KN; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:23:36 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiVLb-00019J-BS; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:23:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiVEb-000IFt-UI for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:16:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiVEZ-000IFH-0S for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:16:20 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (mail.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IDG79d065660 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:16:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200710181316.l9IDG79d065660@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:15:18 -0400 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: References: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 10.20.30.6 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c As has been pointed out to me version -11 should also be included in this thread as version 10 was what the WG sent to the IESG. See: http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00132.html and http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00157.html Consider the changes highlighted below as part of the changes you can comment on. Remember we are only looking for issues that VIOLATE the WG consensus or CHANGE the protocol. In section 1. second paragraph was added as background: The enumeration is caused by the set of NSEC records that exists side signed zone. An NSEC record lists two names that are ordered canonically, in order to show that nothing exists between the two names. The complete set of NSEC records lists all the names in a zone. It is trivial to enumerate the content of a zone by querying for names that do not exist. In "3.1.2.1. Opt-Out Flag" the following was added If the Opt-Out flag is set, the NSEC3 record covers zero or more unsigned delegations. If the Opt-Out flag is clear, the NSEC3 record covers zero unsigned delegations. In 7.1 a new step was added to the algorithm: 1. Select the hash algorithm and the values for salt and iterations. In 10.1 following was added as clarification: As an example, SHA-1 produces a hash of 160 bits. The base-32 encoding of 160 bits results in 32 characters. The 32 characters are prepended to the name of the zone as a single label, which includes a length field of a single octet. The maximum length of the zone name, when using SHA-1, is 222 octets (255 - 33). In 10.3 the table for DSA was removed based on comments from the security directorate review that it added nothing. The surrounding text was modified to reflect this change. IANA consideration section 11. was updated to be more explicit. Following was added to the end of 12.1.1 The salt SHOULD be at least 64 bits long and unpredictable, so that an attacker cannot anticipate the value of the salt and compute the next set of dictionaries before the zone is published. Other changes are simple grammatical fixes. Olafur At 07:39 18/10/2007, Roy Arends wrote: >Olafur Gudmundsson wrote on 10/18/2007 02:10:12 AM: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > During the IESG evaluation of this documents a number of clarifications > > were suggested to the document. As Roy stated in his message there is no > > change in what the working group agreed to before sending the document > > to the IESG. > >My post was referring to changes between version 11 and 12. > >Between version 10 and version 11, there was a change as well. > >The original text in the rationale of version 10 reads: > > A second problem is that the cost to cryptographically secure > delegations to unsigned zones is high for large delegation-centric > zones and zones where insecure delegations will be updated rapidly. > For these zones, the costs of maintaining the NSEC RR chain may be > extremely high relative to the gain of cryptographically > authenticating existence of unsecured zones. > >The new text in the rationale of version 11 and 12 reads: > > A second problem is that the cost to cryptographically secure > delegations to unsigned zones is high, relative to the perceived > security benefit, in two cases: large, delegation-centric zones, and > zones where insecure delegations will be updated rapidly. In these > cases, the costs of maintaining the NSEC RR chain may be extremely > high and use of the "Opt-Out" convention may be more appropriate (for > these unsecured zones). > >The history and rationale behind that change is as follows: > >1) During the security directorate review, Stephen Kent noted: > >"The second argument appears to be based on a tradeoff analysis between >the costs of signing the NSEC RRs and the perceived security from use of >this mechanism. This seems to be an apples/oranges sort of argument that >requires much more justification." > >The authors agreed with that, and asked Stephen Kent to rewrite that >section, which resulted in the new text in the rationale. > >2) During the IESG review, Sam Hartman asked us to either iterate that >change back to the WG and measure consensus on it, or roll back the change >to the previous version. > >To the authors, rolling back the change to the original version would >re-raise Stephen Kent's point, hence we went for the first option, and >thus this post is a result of Sam Hartman's request. > >Since I'm not in a position to call for consensus on this textual change, >I'd like you to consider it as part of Olafur's request: > > > For process reason this message starts a 1 week, comment period where > > members of the WG can raise issues with word changes in the document > > or explain why the new text differs from prior working group > > consensus. > >Thanks, > >Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 09:55:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiVqK-0002XU-QG; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:55:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiVqJ-0002cb-HB; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:55:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiVkn-000PRS-8U for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:49:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiVkk-000POK-Bx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:49:35 +0000 Received: from gary.nlnetlabs.nl (gary.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:216:76ff:feb8:1853]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9IDnT9f066727 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:49:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wouter@nlnetlabs.nl) Message-ID: <47176469.6030105@nlnetlabs.nl> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:49:29 +0200 From: Wouter Wijngaards User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (X11/20070727) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Namedroppers Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history-01 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000900090809070200070200" X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:49:30 +0200 (CEST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000900090809070200070200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi dnsext, Some time ago I wrote this draft about DNSSEC trust anchor rollover. I have updated it now with some corrections and an example. I hope this makes it easier to read. I would like to ask if the dnsext group wants to adopt this work. The method described (IMHO) fills gaps in the currently available trust-anchor-update mechanisms, that previous drafts did not address. The main thrust of the draft is this: When a resolver has been offline for a long time (for a variety of reasons), it cannot keep up with regular updates. Therefore, a history of key states is kept, that can be used to bring the resolver back online. It can be deployed incrementally, can coexist with other update mechanisms (such as -timers and software update), has algorithm flexibility, and handles key revocation. AFAIK there are no patent issues regarding this work. I believe it addresses all of RFC 4986 concerns, with initial trust possible, and a chance of being able to rollover for longer-offline cases. It can also provide multiple key compromise protection (like the N out of N-draft did). Best regards, Wouter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHF2RpkDLqNwOhpPgRAmuWAKCksuwWZc2jUpgrgl18OUA14RIetACeJ1V0 U0qubdugJJdAWs7O4EPpyyU= =bo7p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------000900090809070200070200 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="New Version Notification for draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history-01.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename*0="New Version Notification for draft-wijngaards-dnsex"; filename*1="t-trust-history-01.eml" Return-Path: Received: from omval.tednet.nl (omval.tednet.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:200:39ff:fe59:b187]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9C98ptK090315 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:08:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mirror@ietf.org) Received: from ns1.neustar.com (ns1.neustar.com [156.154.16.138]) by omval.tednet.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9C98ew7064447 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:08:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mirror@ietf.org) Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3B826E77 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:39:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IgG3P-000082-Py for wouter@nlnetlabs.nl; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:39:31 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: wouter@nlnetlabs.nl Cc: From: IETF I-D Submission Tool Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history-01 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:39:31 -0400 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:08:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:27:32 by milter-greylist-3.0 (omval.tednet.nl [213.154.224.17]); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:08:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on open.nlnetlabs.nl A new version of I-D, draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history-01.txt has been successfuly submitted by Wouter Wijngaards and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history Revision: 01 Title: DNSSEC Trust Anchor History Service Creation_date: 2007-10-10 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 16 Abstract: When DNS validators have trusted keys, but have been offline for a longer period, key rollover will fail and they are stuck with stale trust anchors. History service allows validators to query for older DNSKEY RRsets and pick up the rollover trail where they left off. The service can be made to withstand multiple key compromises and large-scale spoofing.Requirements Language The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119]. The IETF Secretariat. --------------000900090809070200070200-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 11:21:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXC1-00056u-4t; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:21:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXBu-0005ce-HC; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:21:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiX2W-000Fsh-3d for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:12:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiX2T-000FsE-ED for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:11:58 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9IFBoxU020364; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:11:50 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IFBokY027060; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:11:50 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:11:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Roy Arends cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 15:11:49.0828 (UTC) FILETIME=[3514C040:01C81199] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > 2) Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > > In section 12.1.3 ("Using New or Unknown Hash Algorithms"), the statement > "It is suggested that a similar technique to the one being used in this > specification to protect older clients be employed (see Section 2.)" was > unclear. We have now rewritten that section (12.1.3) and it now contains a > transition scenario. This is the exact same scenario as was suggested in > the previous text. Subsequently, this caused the DNSKEY alias algorithm > allocated in this specification to be used with SHA1 (for NSEC3 > algorithms) only. I'm not convinced the documented scenario works. Perhaps I'm just missing something, and I've be delighted to hear that. I think the problem stems from a difference in required support: we require that NSEC3-capable resolvers also support NSEC, but we aren't (as far as I can tell) requiring that an NSEC3-SHA256-capable resolver also support NSEC3-SHA1. (And I think that's a reasonable state of affairs, for sundry reasons, mostly related to the fact that we might want to entirely deprecate some hash algorithms in the future.) Imagine a resolver that only supports NSEC3-SHA256 (or some other new hash algorithm), but not NSEC3-SHA1 (or whatever the zone is currently using). Step 1: move to new DNSKEYs (with the new alg. identifiers for NSEC3-SHA256). Step 2: add the SHA256 NSEC3 RRs. Between steps 1 and 2, that resolver has some issues: it sees a zone signed with algorithms it groks, but it can't find appropriate NSEC3's. Validation failures happen. A resolver that supports both the old and new hash algorithms might even have a few difficulties, too. -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 11:39:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXTa-0002IA-Ik; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:39:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXTZ-00066s-CV; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:39:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXOs-000LDk-RL for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:35:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXOq-000LBU-0Q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:35:05 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9IFYuZt022291; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:34:56 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IFYvpC028596; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:34:57 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:34:56 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:34:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Roy Arends cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Stephen Kent , Sam Hartman Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 15:34:56.0569 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FA4A290:01C8119C] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:34:57 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > Between version 10 and version 11, there was a change as well. ... Thank you for calling this out. I think the new text makes some slightly more definitive, and arguably incorrect, statements about the value of NSEC than the previous text, and it seems to encourage the use of opt-out. I'd like to see this change rolled back or the paragraph recrafted to be at least as neutral as the previous version. My proposed replacement text: "Certain large, delegation-centric zones wish to avoid the cost of cryptographically securing delegations to unsigned zones, particularly when these delegations will be updated rapidly. The "Opt-Out" convention described in the document was designed to help them avoid that cost." -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 11:41:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXUo-0004aH-8s; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:41:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXUn-00069G-2P; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:41:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXQ3-000LWy-Ns for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:36:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXQ1-000LWb-7E for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:36:18 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9IFa8aW022436; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:36:08 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IFa9xk028757; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:36:09 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:36:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:36:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: <200710181316.l9IDG79d065660@ogud.com> Message-ID: References: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> <200710181316.l9IDG79d065660@ogud.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="8323328-1565273356-1192721220=:15627" Content-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 15:36:08.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A830FB0:01C8119C] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:36:08 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-1565273356-1192721220=:15627 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: Just informational... On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, �lafur Gu�mundsson /DNSEXT chair wrote: [looking at diff from -10 to -11] > In section 1. second paragraph was added as background: > The enumeration is caused by the set of NSEC records that exists FWIW, The above paragraph changed slightly between -11 and -12 as well. > Other changes are simple grammatical fixes. It appears that section C.2.3., "Possible Hash Value Truncation Method", was removed between -10 and -11, also. -- Sam --8323328-1565273356-1192721220=:15627-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From ValeriapritchardAdair@tripod.com Thu Oct 18 11:42:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXVp-0005vh-RW for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:42:17 -0400 Received: from [189.156.8.26] (helo=cgcv2247) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXVk-0006OG-B6 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:42:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host87221030.tripod.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id ZS4ttH7N28.477495.OtN.Mc9.8649894725252 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:41:47 +0600 Message-ID: <2a29b901c8119d$72cec3f0$0f03a8c0@CGCV2247> From: "Lawanda Gifford" To: Subject: Your family Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:41:47 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2A29B5_01C8119D.72CEC3F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2A29B5_01C8119D.72CEC3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_2A29AE_01C8119D.72931A80-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 12:03:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXqT-0001OZ-Ow; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:03:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiXqT-0007RB-Cf; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:03:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXjC-0001YE-Ow for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:56:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [206.190.36.78] (helo=smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiXj6-0001XJ-SH for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:56:02 +0000 Received: (qmail 81141 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2007 15:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO connotech.com) (t2i6@rogers.com@209.148.165.15 with plain) by smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2007 15:55:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: MnH27sIVM1lfDOcyT84lK3FSKxpGXrNEHQM9.qZDdalUwzHD6LGGcaeG1JXl8o3Z2g-- Message-ID: <4717830B.5000407@connotech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:00:11 -0400 From: Thierry Moreau User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wouter Wijngaards CC: Namedroppers Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-wijngaards-dnsext-trust-history-01 References: <47176469.6030105@nlnetlabs.nl> In-Reply-To: <47176469.6030105@nlnetlabs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Dear all: This work seems to fulfill two goals: A specification that allows a (island of trust) zone manager to publish history of RFC5011 (timers-based rollover mechanism) events, intended only for resolvers that were off-line for a too long duration, and effective only when the RFC5011 events were not triggered by a security breach. With the proposed "priming keys" mechanism, a substitute for RFC5011 rollover mechanism. OK, the original intent might have been to fix a limitation of the solution for first goal, but the result is indeed an alternate trust anchor rollover mechanism. I don't know if this "priming key" mechanism is detailed enough, e.g. the rollover of priming keys is kind of vaguely described as "only ... when this becomes necessary." I doubt the dnsext wg would pick up either goal as a priority, but we will see. Regards, -- - Thierry Moreau CONNOTECH Experts-conseils inc. 9130 Place de Montgolfier Montreal, Qc Canada H2M 2A1 Tel.: (514)385-5691 Fax: (514)385-5900 web site: http://www.connotech.com e-mail: thierry.moreau@connotech.com -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 12:28:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYEH-0003jm-HS; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:28:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYEG-0008R1-AY; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:28:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiY6h-0008YL-G2 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:20:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiY6f-0008Xx-1M for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:20:22 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,296,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="10533628" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2007 17:20:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: To: Sam Weiler Cc: iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: From: Roy Arends Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:20:17 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 18/10/2007 05:20:18 PM, Serialize complete at 18/10/2007 05:20:18 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Sam Weiler wrote on 10/18/2007 05:11:47 PM: > On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > > > 2) Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > > > > In section 12.1.3 ("Using New or Unknown Hash Algorithms"), the statement > > "It is suggested that a similar technique to the one being used in this > > specification to protect older clients be employed (see Section 2.)" was > > unclear. We have now rewritten that section (12.1.3) and it now contains a > > transition scenario. This is the exact same scenario as was suggested in > > the previous text. Subsequently, this caused the DNSKEY alias algorithm > > allocated in this specification to be used with SHA1 (for NSEC3 > > algorithms) only. > > I'm not convinced the documented scenario works. Perhaps I'm just > missing something, and I've be delighted to hear that. > > I think the problem stems from a difference in required support: we > require that NSEC3-capable resolvers also support NSEC, but we aren't > (as far as I can tell) requiring that an NSEC3-SHA256-capable resolver > also support NSEC3-SHA1. (And I think that's a reasonable state of > affairs, for sundry reasons, mostly related to the fact that we might > want to entirely deprecate some hash algorithms in the future.) > > Imagine a resolver that only supports NSEC3-SHA256 (or some other new > hash algorithm), but not NSEC3-SHA1 (or whatever the zone is currently > using). I can't imagine a resolver supporting a not yet specified hash algorithm, while not supporting the current specified hash algorithm. > Step 1: move to new DNSKEYs (with the new alg. identifiers for > NSEC3-SHA256). > > Step 2: add the SHA256 NSEC3 RRs. > > Between steps 1 and 2, that resolver has some issues: it sees a zone > signed with algorithms it groks, but it can't find appropriate > NSEC3's. Validation failures happen. Yes, and so be it, for this extremely unlikely case. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From ShelbypeepyGabriel@gobritney.com Thu Oct 18 12:39:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYPE-0000NP-OL for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:39:32 -0400 Received: from [218.97.174.76] (helo=oemgary) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYP9-0000du-3R for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:39:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host48204329.gobritney.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id BuSzHqF495.727952.nlE.kMS.5913450985011 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:38:35 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Patrice Cassidy" To: Subject: Your health Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:38:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_A006_01C811A5.6AD8FAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_A006_01C811A5.6AD8FAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_A006_01C811A5.6AD8FAA0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 12:45:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYUd-00015g-MK; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:45:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYUc-0000SY-GJ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:45:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiYPO-000DCt-H2 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:39:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.23] (helo=mx3.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiYPM-000DC5-85 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:39:41 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,296,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="11817019" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2007 17:39:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: To: Sam Weiler Cc: Sam Hartman , Stephen Kent , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: From: Roy Arends Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:39:35 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 18/10/2007 05:39:35 PM, Serialize complete at 18/10/2007 05:39:35 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Sam Weiler wrote on 10/18/2007 05:34:54 PM: > On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > > > Between version 10 and version 11, there was a change as well. ... > > Thank you for calling this out. > > I think the new text makes some slightly more definitive, and arguably > incorrect, statements about the value of NSEC than the previous text, Could you please hightlight which statement is incorrect, and explain to us why it is incorrect? > and it seems to encourage the use of opt-out. Not at all. We strongly recommend that Opt-Out be used sparingly (section 12.2). I think the wording change is benign, and is actually more readable than the original text. What do others think ? Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From azam@rocketmail.com Thu Oct 18 13:05:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYoC-0003Kq-LK for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:05:20 -0400 Received: from catv-59844bbb.catv.broadband.hu ([89.132.75.187]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiYo7-00010h-69 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:05:20 -0400 Received: from [89.132.75.187] by ns1.yahoo.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:05:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c811a9$02871030$ec1ecbb8@ibdot> From: "Blue ice" To: Subject: Blue ice Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:17:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C811A9.0281F9A6" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C811A9.0281F9A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cikgoLsYWZxwvwEl/bSHNOTxktbV/ikgoLsY/ZxwvwElxbSHNO/xktbV/ikgoLsY/Catching= your girlfriend's look at other guy? Turn your sexual life into blossom, using "blue pill". She'll be moaning all night long. Proved meds here http://geocities.com/TommyWalter82/ PS: 4 Free Male enhancer with EACH order. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C811A9.0281F9A6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C811BA.D24007A0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 13:47:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiZSi-0005oj-4x; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:47:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiZSg-0002NF-QG; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:47:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiZLl-0001Ot-Ba for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:40:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [216.168.239.75] (helo=osprey.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiZLi-0001OP-Kr for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:40:00 +0000 Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l9IHXZ26029644; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:33:37 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.135]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:39:09 -0400 Received: from dul1mcdblacka-l1.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.131.29.169]) by dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:39:09 -0400 Message-ID: <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:39:24 -0400 From: "Blacka, David" Organization: VeriSign, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Weiler CC: Roy Arends , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020001060700080602000707" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 17:39:09.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA0C0960:01C811AD] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 202a3ece0492a8c7e7c8672d5214398f This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020001060700080602000707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam Weiler wrote: > I'm not convinced the documented scenario works. Perhaps I'm just > missing something, and I've be delighted to hear that. > > I think the problem stems from a difference in required support: we > require that NSEC3-capable resolvers also support NSEC, but we aren't > (as far as I can tell) requiring that an NSEC3-SHA256-capable resolver > also support NSEC3-SHA1. (And I think that's a reasonable state of > affairs, for sundry reasons, mostly related to the fact that we might > want to entirely deprecate some hash algorithms in the future.) I suppose. I do find it hard to imagine a situation where you would rather not validate the response than validate it using the old hash algorithm. Keep in mind this is the NSEC3 hash here, not a hash used in the signature. > Imagine a resolver that only supports NSEC3-SHA256 (or some other new > hash algorithm), but not NSEC3-SHA1 (or whatever the zone is currently > using). Sam, You do bring up a valid point. The documented procedure (as written, anyway) is only safe if the validators are backwards compatible. There are basically two events that are important here: 1) Changing the DNSKEY and DS sets. 2) Changing the NSEC3PARAM record (I'm using this as the point when the servers start returning the new NSEC3 RRs in responses). After #1, non-forward-compatible validators stop validating the zone. After #2, the migration is complete. We could, of course, change the procedure to do #2, then #1. That would work for your proposed non-backwards-compatible validator. However, it would break the zone for all of the non-upgraded validators, which, I hope you would agree, would be a worse situation. > A resolver that supports both the old and new hash algorithms might even > have a few difficulties, too. The procedure is designed for such validators, so I don't think they would have any problems. There is a way to change the algorithm so that it would work in your scenario (as unlikely as I believe it to be): 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. 2) Start serving both old and new NSEC3 records. At this point, old validators will ignore the NSEC3 RRs, new validators might ignore the old NSEC3 RRs. 2) Change the DNSKEY and DS RRsets. At this point, old validators stop validating responses from this zone, so it is safe to cease returning the old NSEC3 RRs. 3) Change the NSEC3PARAM and stop serving the old NSEC3 RRs. Personally, I don't think it is worth changing the procedure, though. I think the scenario is very unlikely, and, if it *does* come about, the document describing the new NSEC3 hash can outline a similar procedure. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering --------------ms020001060700080602000707 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPojCC A6YwggMPoAMCAQICEHWNgosXAgaqes2nmr0jsCgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgcExCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE8MDoGA1UECxMzQ2xhc3MgMiBQdWJs aWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eSAtIEcyMTowOAYDVQQLEzEoYykg MTk5OCBWZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLiAtIEZvciBhdXRob3JpemVkIHVzZSBvbmx5MR8wHQYDVQQL ExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMB4XDTk5MDIyNTAwMDAwMFoXDTA5MDIyNDIzNTk1 OVowga0xFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVz 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for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:11:23 -0400 Received: from [200.119.211.105] (helo=pc12) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iiam7-0005tY-Nj for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:11:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host57046783.washingtonpost.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id aE1XcPcN56.082625.gMq.2AA.2717327770951 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:09:50 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Carmella Diggs" To: Subject: Your family Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:09:50 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_DB8D_01C8134D.08555A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_DB8D_01C8134D.08555A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_DB8D_01C8134D.08555A00-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 15:13:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iianw-0003Iy-9p; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:13:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iianq-0005a2-08; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:13:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iiaap-0005An-2p for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:59:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [216.168.239.74] (helo=peregrine.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iiaal-0005AA-KV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:59:37 +0000 Received: from dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.139]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l9IIqgDl021137; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:52:42 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.135]) by dul1wnexcn02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:58:48 -0400 Received: from dul1mcdblacka-l1.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.131.29.169]) by dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:58:39 -0400 Message-ID: <4717ACEF.5060907@verisign.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:58:55 -0400 From: "Blacka, David" Organization: VeriSign, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Hartman CC: Sam Weiler , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Roy Arends , iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms040904000204050501060202" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 18:58:39.0360 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4FE8800:01C811B8] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040904000204050501060202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>> "Blacka," == Blacka, David writes: > > Blacka,> 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. > > 2) Start serving both > Blacka,> old and new NSEC3 records. At this point, old validators > Blacka,> will ignore the NSEC3 RRs, new validators might ignore > Blacka,> the old NSEC3 RRs. > > I agree that 8.1 says that unknown hash algorithms should be ignored. > However the text in 8.2 says that I can treat a zone as bogus if the > response contains different hashes for some of the nsec3 records. I > think that if you make the change to the algorithm you need to change > the text in 8.2 to make it clear that it is OK to have more than one > hash provided that all the necessary nsec3 records can be validated > with a single hash. Hm, good point. I guess I was thinking that if you were ignoring them based on 8.1, then they wouldn't count based on 8.2. But if you understood both, then maybe there is a problem. > 2) Change the DNSKEY and DS RRsets. > Blacka,> At this point, old validators stop validating responses > Blacka,> from this zone, so it is safe to cease returning the old > Blacka,> NSEC3 RRs. 3) Change the NSEC3PARAM and stop serving the > Blacka,> old NSEC3 RRs. > > Blacka,> Personally, I don't think it is worth changing the > Blacka,> procedure, though. I think the scenario is very > Blacka,> unlikely, and, if it *does* come about, the document > Blacka,> describing the new NSEC3 hash can outline a similar > Blacka,> procedure. > > I'd appreciate a response to my message about why I think this is > reasonably likely. I have not seen that message. Just to be clear, the scenario that I consider unlikely is that both a) a new NSEC3 hash algorithm is defined and b) validators are deployed that actively refuse to validate an NSEC3 record using SHA1. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering --------------ms040904000204050501060202 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPojCC A6YwggMPoAMCAQICEHWNgosXAgaqes2nmr0jsCgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgcExCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE8MDoGA1UECxMzQ2xhc3MgMiBQdWJs aWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eSAtIEcyMTowOAYDVQQLEzEoYykg MTk5OCBWZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLiAtIEZvciBhdXRob3JpemVkIHVzZSBvbmx5MR8wHQYDVQQL ExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMB4XDTk5MDIyNTAwMDAwMFoXDTA5MDIyNDIzNTk1 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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibKH-0006Rp-B8; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:46:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibKF-0006qq-1T; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:46:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibEr-000EpH-OS for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:41:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibEp-000Eov-95 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:41:00 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IJetpe068204 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:40:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9IJetVc068203 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:40:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IiZ05-000MVH-02 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:17:38 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id D82574A46; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: Roy Arends Cc: Sam Weiler , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Roy Arends's message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:20:17 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] Roy, consider what happens when we decide a hash algorithm is weak. What you seem to be saying is that we need to deploy the new hash algorithm everywhere before we can start withdrawing it anywhere. That seems problematic. It seems that after a certain point you're going to want to set validator policies that the old algorithm is no longer sufficient and should be treated as insecure. However under the current strategy it actually ends up bogus rather than insecure. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 15:46:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibKU-0006gm-My; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:46:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibKT-0006rI-Gc; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:46:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibF7-000EqB-0p for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:41:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibF4-000Epu-Ez for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:41:15 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IJfAer068210 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:41:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9IJfAjt068209 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:41:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iia6C-000D2x-MX for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:28:01 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 97AA74A47; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: "Blacka, David" Cc: Sam Weiler , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Roy Arends , iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:27:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> (David Blacka's message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:39:24 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "Blacka," == Blacka, David writes: Blacka,> 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. 2) Start serving both Blacka,> old and new NSEC3 records. At this point, old validators Blacka,> will ignore the NSEC3 RRs, new validators might ignore Blacka,> the old NSEC3 RRs. I agree that 8.1 says that unknown hash algorithms should be ignored. However the text in 8.2 says that I can treat a zone as bogus if the response contains different hashes for some of the nsec3 records. I think that if you make the change to the algorithm you need to change the text in 8.2 to make it clear that it is OK to have more than one hash provided that all the necessary nsec3 records can be validated with a single hash. 2) Change the DNSKEY and DS RRsets. Blacka,> At this point, old validators stop validating responses Blacka,> from this zone, so it is safe to cease returning the old Blacka,> NSEC3 RRs. 3) Change the NSEC3PARAM and stop serving the Blacka,> old NSEC3 RRs. Blacka,> Personally, I don't think it is worth changing the Blacka,> procedure, though. I think the scenario is very Blacka,> unlikely, and, if it *does* come about, the document Blacka,> describing the new NSEC3 hash can outline a similar Blacka,> procedure. I'd appreciate a response to my message about why I think this is reasonably likely. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 15:48:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibMV-0007se-W4; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:48:55 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibMS-0006uh-Pp; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:48:53 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibGo-000F9w-OR for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:43:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [65.201.175.9] (helo=cliffie.verisignlabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibGm-000F9W-E3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:43:01 +0000 Received: from monsoon.verisignlabs.com (scooter.bo.verisignlabs.com [172.25.170.10]) by cliffie.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F5761367F5; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com (dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com [10.131.244.205]) by monsoon.verisignlabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569FD242157; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:42:51 -0400 From: Matt Larson To: Roy Arends , Sam Weiler , Sam Hartman , Stephen Kent , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, Message-ID: <20071018194251.GZ2437@dul1mcmlarson-l1.verisignlabs.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > I think the wording change is benign, and is actually more readable than > the original text. > > What do others think ? I think either the -10 or -11 text is fine and I am opposed to any further changes: let's just stay with what's in -12. Quibbling about this is passive-aggressive nit-picking and a waste of our time and energy. Let's move on. Matt -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 15:59:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibX3-0007X6-V5; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:59:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibX0-0007Dv-PJ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:59:47 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibRa-000I2w-T4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:54:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IibRY-000I2g-Nq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:54:09 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4038F1155C; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:54:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:58:55 -0400." <4717ACEF.5060907@verisign.com> References: <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> <4717ACEF.5060907@verisign.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:54:08 +0000 Message-ID: <19159.1192737248@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f > > Blacka,> 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. ... > > > > I agree that 8.1 says that unknown hash algorithms should be ignored. > > However the text in 8.2 says that I can treat a zone as bogus ... > > Hm, good point. I guess I was thinking that if you were ignoring them > based on 8.1, then they wouldn't count based on 8.2. But if ... gentlemen, the dnssec train was stopped to let NSEC3 on, and i'd take it as a personal favour if the design could be finished, tested, proved out, and made ready for deployment, so that we can restart that train. basic arguments about feature level and design implications have no place at the 11th hour. is this thing close to being ready to go, or not? -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 16:26:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibxG-0006rb-MW; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:26:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibxF-0007wL-GL; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:26:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iibqw-000OeZ-Oh for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:20:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iibqu-000Odx-DJ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:20:21 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,297,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="10536118" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2007 21:20:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: To: Sam Hartman Cc: iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Sam Weiler Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: From: Roy Arends Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:20:18 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 18/10/2007 09:20:18 PM, Serialize complete at 18/10/2007 09:20:18 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Sam Hartman wrote on 10/18/2007 07:17:31 PM: > Roy, consider what happens when we decide a hash algorithm is weak. > What you seem to be saying is that we need to deploy the new hash > algorithm everywhere before we can start withdrawing it anywhere. > > That seems problematic. It seems that after a certain point you're > going to want to set validator policies that the old algorithm is no > longer sufficient and should be treated as insecure. However under > the current strategy it actually ends up bogus rather than insecure. I agree that the transition strategy fails in the scenario where the weak algorithm is not implemented in validators. So, I suggest the most simple transition scenario possible, guaranteed to work with current implementations, does not cause a bogus state. 1) transition from NSEC3-OLD to unsigned. 2) transition from unsigned to NSEC3-NEW. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 16:40:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IicAi-0000u1-44; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:40:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IicAf-0008Jf-Gz; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:40:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iic6N-0002bh-HM for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:36:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iic6G-0002bD-PZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:36:16 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Iic6G-0006va-0F for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:36:12 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id B171113744; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:36:21 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, Message-ID: <20071018203620.GC29777@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Dear colleagues, On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 06:39:35PM +0200, Roy Arends wrote: > I think the wording change is benign, and is actually more readable than > the original text. I agree. I get Sam's point, but I don't think the document as written encourages the use of the opt-out mechanism. I also think that another round on this will delay an otherwise useful document even further, which seems to me to be a poor cure for a disease I can't detect. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 16:43:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IicD1-0003PN-NF; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:43:11 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IicCs-0008OT-15; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:43:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iic8S-0003ND-7y for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:38:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iic8P-0003FR-Us for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:38:27 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1Iic8P-00075y-Dc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:38:25 -0400 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 2751813744; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:38:35 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, Message-ID: <20071018203833.GD29777@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org References: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200710180011.l9I0B1NC061341@ogud.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Dear colleagues, On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 08:10:12PM -0400, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT = chair wrote: > Silence will be taken as an agreement that the textual changes are=20 > improvements > in documentation, and do not affect the working group consensus. > Statements saying you have reviewed the changes are greatly appreciated= . I have read and compared the -10, -11, and -12 drafts of draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3. I have no objections to any of the changes between -10 and -12. Best regards, Andrew --=20 ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 18:13:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IidcH-00038I-Ug; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:13:21 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IidcE-0003Wi-OG; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:13:21 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IidVa-000KUN-NK for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:06:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IidVY-000KSd-Ao for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:06:25 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9IM6JMW019531; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:06:20 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9IM6JHd018757; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:06:19 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:06:19 -0400 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:06:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: <20071018203620.GC29777@dba3> Message-ID: References: <20071018203620.GC29777@dba3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 22:06:19.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C5EDDD0:01C811D3] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:06:20 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I also think that another round on this will delay an otherwise > useful document even further, which seems to me to be a poor cure > for a disease I can't detect. Since we're already looking at (yet) another round on the document to address the hash algorithm agility concerns, dealing with this shouldn't really add any time. -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 18:51:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IieCx-0003Zh-Fi; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:51:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IieCw-0004fO-78; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:51:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iie8X-000P2I-1G for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:46:41 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [216.168.239.75] (helo=osprey.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iie8U-000P0f-9j for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:46:39 +0000 Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l9IMeF6j009992; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:40:17 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.135]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:45:49 -0400 Received: from dul1mcdblacka-l1.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.131.29.169]) by dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:45:49 -0400 Message-ID: <4717E234.7020803@verisign.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:46:12 -0400 From: "Blacka, David" Organization: VeriSign, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Hartman CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030406060408000102070003" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 22:45:49.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[A127B000:01C811D8] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030406060408000102070003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam Hartman wrote: > Roy, consider what happens when we decide a hash algorithm is weak. > What you seem to be saying is that we need to deploy the new hash > algorithm everywhere before we can start withdrawing it anywhere. I don't understand this statement. > That seems problematic. It seems that after a certain point you're > going to want to set validator policies that the old algorithm is no > longer sufficient and should be treated as insecure. However under > the current strategy it actually ends up bogus rather than insecure. This statement seems a bit misleading, but maybe it is just me. I read it as "once you declare the old hash algorithm as bad, my validator is going to see all NSEC3-OLDALG-signed zones as bogus". Which isn't true. I'll agree that in the procedure outlined in 10.4, the zone will be seen as bogus between steps 1 and 3, which is probably not a very long time. But the end state is fine. I am quite curious, however, as to what sort of thing we are going to have to find out about SHA1 to actually want to treat zones using signed using NSEC3-SHA1 as insecure? I'll just point out that NSEC3 doesn't use SHA-1 in quite the same way as in RSASHA1 (e.g.), so the same attack scenarios don't necessarily apply. For example, I don't think that a collision attack is particularly relevant. However, I'm not a crypto expert, so I may be talking out of my hat. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering --------------ms030406060408000102070003 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPojCC A6YwggMPoAMCAQICEHWNgosXAgaqes2nmr0jsCgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgcExCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE8MDoGA1UECxMzQ2xhc3MgMiBQdWJs aWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eSAtIEcyMTowOAYDVQQLEzEoYykg MTk5OCBWZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLiAtIEZvciBhdXRob3JpemVkIHVzZSBvbmx5MR8wHQYDVQQL ExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMB4XDTk5MDIyNTAwMDAwMFoXDTA5MDIyNDIzNTk1 OVowga0xFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVz dCBOZXR3b3JrMUkwRwYDVQQLE0BVc2UgaXMgc3ViamVjdCB0byB0ZXJtcyBhdCBodHRwczov 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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IieDR-0004gO-BJ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:51:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iie9x-000PD7-PZ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:48:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [216.168.239.74] (helo=peregrine.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Iie9v-000PCP-3H for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:48:08 +0000 Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l9IMfOMX030402; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:41:24 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.135]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:47:20 -0400 Received: from dul1mcdblacka-l1.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.131.29.169]) by dul1wnexmb02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:47:21 -0400 Message-ID: <4717E290.30703@verisign.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:47:44 -0400 From: "Blacka, David" Organization: VeriSign, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roy Arends CC: Sam Hartman , iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Sam Weiler Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070501050201080908070407" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2007 22:47:21.0167 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7D41DF0:01C811D8] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070501050201080908070407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roy Arends wrote: > I agree that the transition strategy fails in the scenario where the weak > algorithm is not implemented in validators. > > So, I suggest the most simple transition scenario possible, guaranteed to > work with current implementations, does not cause a bogus state. > > 1) transition from NSEC3-OLD to unsigned. > 2) transition from unsigned to NSEC3-NEW. Ah, simpler and even better. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering --------------ms070501050201080908070407 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIPojCC A6YwggMPoAMCAQICEHWNgosXAgaqes2nmr0jsCgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgcExCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE8MDoGA1UECxMzQ2xhc3MgMiBQdWJs aWMgUHJpbWFyeSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eSAtIEcyMTowOAYDVQQLEzEoYykg MTk5OCBWZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLiAtIEZvciBhdXRob3JpemVkIHVzZSBvbmx5MR8wHQYDVQQL ExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMB4XDTk5MDIyNTAwMDAwMFoXDTA5MDIyNDIzNTk1 OVowga0xFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVz dCBOZXR3b3JrMUkwRwYDVQQLE0BVc2UgaXMgc3ViamVjdCB0byB0ZXJtcyBhdCBodHRwczov 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:42:28 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 19/10/2007 11:42:28 AM, Serialize complete at 19/10/2007 11:42:28 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 The transition scheme was designed to allow zone operators to perform a smooth and gradual transition (i.e. over several versions of a zone) from and old hash to a new hash. This transition scheme has no impact on implementations whatsoever, it is solely operational, and written as a courtesy to zone operators. In theory, such schemes have a better place in informational documents like RFC4641. In practice, this still needs to be dealt with anyway. In absence of a smooth and gradual transition scheme for hash algorithms, zone operators have a simple method to go from an old hash to a new hash. Simply replace the old with the new hashed NSEC3 records while the zone remains unsigned. State wise, the zone will go from signed (NSEC3-sha1) to unsigned to signed (NSEC3-newhash). My proposal is to replace the transition scheme in section 12.1.3 with the following note: <new text> 12.1.3. Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm Since validators are instructed to ignore NSEC3 RRs with unknown hash algorithms, simply using a new or unknown hash algorithm directly will lead to validation failures with clients that understand NSEC3 but do not understand the hash algorithm. When transitioning to a new hash algorithm, care must be taken to prevent client validation failures during the process. Note that this is an operation procedure. The procedure is as follows: 1. Roll the zone to an Unsigned State. The actual method for safely and securely transitioning the zone to an unsigned state is outside the scope of this specification. However, the end result MUST be that validators see this zone as unsigned. 2. Replace the NSEC3 RRs containing the old Hash Algorithm from the zone with signed NSEC3 RRs with the new Hash Algorithm to the zone. Add the NSEC3PARAM RRSet to the zone. 4. Roll the zone to a Signed State. The actual method for safely and securely transitioning the zone to a signed state is outside the scope of this Specification. </new text> As said, the _ONLY_ reason we had a transition scheme is to allow a gradual change from NSEC3-sha1 to NSEC3-newhash. The above change to the document will not cause any change in implementation, since by default zone operators are able to roll back a zone from signed to unsigned and vice versa, see RFC4641. If there is a need for a smooth and gradual transition scheme while the zone remains signed, we can leave that for the document that standardizes the new hash algorithm. Let me emphasize that a smooth and gradual transition scheme is not critical. I see this as the one way to avoid a complete bankruptcy of the IETF standardization process around NSEC3. 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Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:34:35 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iisvk-0001Ye-Cd; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:34:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IisqF-00099e-18 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:28:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <roy@nominet.org.uk>) id 1IisqC-000998-I5 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:28:45 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,301,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="10554210" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2007 15:28:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <19159.1192737248@sa.vix.com> To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> Cc: iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: <OF78DAE30B.11904755-ON80257379.004E614C-C1257379.004F7EE9@nominet.org.uk> From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:28:42 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 19/10/2007 03:28:42 PM, Serialize complete at 19/10/2007 03:28:42 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Paul Vixie wrote on 10/18/2007 09:54:08 PM: > > > Blacka,> 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. ... > > > > > > I agree that 8.1 says that unknown hash algorithms should be ignored. > > > However the text in 8.2 says that I can treat a zone as bogus ... > > > > Hm, good point. I guess I was thinking that if you were ignoring them > > based on 8.1, then they wouldn't count based on 8.2. But if ... > > gentlemen, the dnssec train was stopped to let NSEC3 on, and i'd take it > as a personal favour if the design could be finished, tested, proved out, > and made ready for deployment, so that we can restart that train. basic > arguments about feature level and design implications have no place at > the 11th hour. is this thing close to being ready to go, or not? The design is finished, tested, proved out and made ready for deployment. The only subject at hand is an operational consideration. I've send text. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 10:35:57 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IisxB-0003z1-6R; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:35:57 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iisx9-0001dI-UA; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:35:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IisoB-0008ww-Bl for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:26:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <vixie@vix.com>) id 1Iiso8-0008wb-Je for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:26:38 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD3511432; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:26:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:42:28 +0200." <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:26:35 +0000 Message-ID: <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 on the basis of this thread, my advice to the working group and to IESG is to reject the NSEC3 proposal and ask that it be taken off the standards track and returned to the working group for further development. we're tinkering with the final product on the outbound loading dock while the truck's motor is running, and the things we're tinkering with are potentially explosive after they reach the field. note, i say this as a strong supporter of the goals of NSEC3. but dnssec-bis has to ship, and this thread has convinced me that NSEC3 is a dnssec-ter issue. dnssec-ter should also include roy's version of DLV, and have another TCR, and is clearly going to take a year or two of development. re: > To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > Cc: iesg@iesg.org > Subject: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. > X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 > From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> > Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:42:28 +0200 > Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > > The transition scheme was designed to allow zone operators to perform a > smooth and gradual transition (i.e. over several versions of a zone) from > and old hash to a new hash. This transition scheme has no impact on > implementations whatsoever, it is solely operational, and written as a > courtesy to zone operators. In theory, such schemes have a better place in > informational documents like RFC4641. In practice, this still needs to be > dealt with anyway. > > In absence of a smooth and gradual transition scheme for hash algorithms, > zone operators have a simple method to go from an old hash to a new hash. > Simply replace the old with the new hashed NSEC3 records while the zone > remains unsigned. State wise, the zone will go from signed (NSEC3-sha1) to > unsigned to signed (NSEC3-newhash). > > My proposal is to replace the transition scheme in section 12.1.3 with the > following note: > > <new text> > 12.1.3. Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > > Since validators are instructed to ignore NSEC3 RRs with unknown hash > algorithms, simply using a new or unknown hash algorithm directly > will lead to validation failures with clients that understand NSEC3 > but do not understand the hash algorithm. > > When transitioning to a new hash algorithm, care must be taken to > prevent client validation failures during the process. > > Note that this is an operation procedure. > > The procedure is as follows: > > 1. Roll the zone to an Unsigned State. The actual method for safely > and securely transitioning the zone to an unsigned state is > outside the scope of this specification. However, the end result > MUST be that validators see this zone as unsigned. > > 2. Replace the NSEC3 RRs containing the old Hash Algorithm from the > zone with signed NSEC3 RRs with the new Hash Algorithm to the zone. > Add the NSEC3PARAM RRSet to the zone. > > 4. Roll the zone to a Signed State. The actual method for safely and > securely transitioning the zone to a signed state is outside the > scope of this Specification. > > </new text> > > As said, the _ONLY_ reason we had a transition scheme is to allow a > gradual change from NSEC3-sha1 to NSEC3-newhash. The above change to the > document will not cause any change in implementation, since by default > zone operators are able to roll back a zone from signed to unsigned and > vice versa, see RFC4641. > > If there is a need for a smooth and gradual transition scheme while the > zone remains signed, we can leave that for the document that standardizes > the new hash algorithm. Let me emphasize that a smooth and gradual > transition scheme is not critical. > > I see this as the one way to avoid a complete bankruptcy of the IETF > standardization process around NSEC3. > > Roy > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 11:19:05 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitcv-0004ba-Cp; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:19:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitcu-0003Kz-5v; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:19:05 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IitWw-000EKm-6V for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:12:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <weiler@tislabs.com>) id 1IitWt-000EIl-K6 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:12:52 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9JFCXoH005415; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:12:33 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9JFCVfY013986; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:12:31 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:12:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:12:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler <weiler@tislabs.com> X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> cc: iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: <OFE8D35920.82A1A52B-ON80257378.006A8B46-C1257378.006FB074@nominet.org.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710190705580.24655@mint.samweiler.com> References: <OFE8D35920.82A1A52B-ON80257378.006A8B46-C1257378.006FB074@nominet.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2007 15:12:30.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[77F614D0:01C81262] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:12:33 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > So, I suggest the most simple transition scenario possible, guaranteed to > work with current implementations, does not cause a bogus state. > > 1) transition from NSEC3-OLD to unsigned. > 2) transition from unsigned to NSEC3-NEW. No objection. It might be worth noting that an alternative to "unsigned" is "use NSEC". That also avoids the 2119 MUST ("...the end result MUST be that validators see this zone as unsigned."). -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 11:19:17 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitd6-0004kR-Sc; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:19:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitd2-0003LF-MX; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:19:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IitYs-000EY2-8z for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:14:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <weiler@tislabs.com>) id 1IitYp-000EW6-Oi for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:14:53 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9JFEmcs005515; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:14:48 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9JFEmpP014092; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:14:48 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:14:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:14:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler <weiler@tislabs.com> X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. In-Reply-To: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710190750000.24655@mint.samweiler.com> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2007 15:14:47.0814 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9950260:01C81262] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:14:48 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > I see this as the one way to avoid a complete bankruptcy of the IETF > standardization process around NSEC3. I'm not sure what problem you're seeing, but I encourage you to take an active role in improving the process you see as broken. Personally, I see the current events as a resounding success of IETF process, demonstrating the benefit of broad cross-area review. After the NSEC3 document was put forward for IETF review (IETF LC on May 9th), one AD identified hash agility[1] as being underdocumented (on June 5th). On October 16th, we saw a new document that included a longer description of how to handle hash agility. Within 48 hours of that document being published, a new problem was found with the mechanism described. And the WG is actively discussing how to proceed. -- Sam [1] Which, as far as I recall, is an completely untested part of the spec. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 11:22:12 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitfw-0001jw-6Z; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:22:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iitfu-0003R7-Vf; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:22:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Iitcd-000Eys-9J for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:18:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <weiler@tislabs.com>) id 1IitcW-000EyD-Ue for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:18:42 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9JFINNh005948; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:18:23 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9JFINai014240; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:18:24 -0500 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:18:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:18:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler <weiler@tislabs.com> X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> cc: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>, Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-Reply-To: <OF7401C7DB.E51B1BFA-ON80257378.005A38D8-C1257378.005B7B70@nominet.org.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710181331370.15627@mint.samweiler.com> References: <OF7401C7DB.E51B1BFA-ON80257378.005A38D8-C1257378.005B7B70@nominet.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2007 15:18:23.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A2414C0:01C81263] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:18:24 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: >> I think the new text makes some slightly more definitive, and >> arguably incorrect, statements about the value of NSEC than the >> previous text, > > Could you please hightlight which statement is incorrect, and > explain to us why it is incorrect? Sure. Thanks for asking. When talking about costs relative to the gain of signing, the old text makes a conditional statement, but the new text makes an unconditional statement. (Paraphrasing and adding emphasis: OLD: "The cost MAY BE extremely high relative to the gain." v. NEW: "The cost IS high relative to the benefit") (The paragraphs also make different statements about the absolute cost, but I'm not objecting to those. (OLD: "... cost ... is high..." v. NEW: "... cost ... may be extremely high ...")) The rearrangement of phrases in the two paragraphs can make it a little hard to decipher. Each paragraph has one conditional ("may be"), one relative cost sentence/clause, one absolute cost sentence/clause, one "high", and one "extremely high". Reshuffling those five items does not always lead to the same result. :-) To be clear: I don't attribute this change to malice. I think it was a sincere attempt to improve the readability of the paragraph. I just think it changed the meaning somewhat. Answering the second question: Using the more definitive statement is (arguably) incorrect since the relative benefit may vary per zone and depending on one's perspective. If you believe (as some do), that DNSSEC is all about protecting the resolver (or consumer of the DNS data): each consumer may have a different view of the value of the protection offered. -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 12:05:12 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiuLY-0008K6-IJ; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:05:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiuLT-0005aF-Bn; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:05:08 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IiuDV-000Jdq-7X for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:56:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <andrew@ca.afilias.info>) id 1IiuDS-000Jct-KP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:56:51 +0000 Received: from mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.198]) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1IiuDR-00061D-SS; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:56:49 -0400 Received: by mac-andrew.int.libertyrms.com (Postfix, from userid 1019) id 35DB83934F1; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:57:40 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. Message-ID: <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Dear colleagues, On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 02:26:35PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > on the basis of this thread, my advice to the working group and to IESG is > to reject the NSEC3 proposal and ask that it be taken off the standards track > and returned to the working group for further development. we're tinkering > with the final product on the outbound loading dock while the truck's motor > is running, and the things we're tinkering with are potentially explosive > after they reach the field. I understand the point of the argument above, but I cannot say I agree with it. In my view, Roy has already pointed out something important about the apparently controversial text: it's really just courtesy advice to operators, and doesn't affect implementation or interoperability as such. It's also not critical to deployment. It is true that mistakes by operators when performing delicate operations around algorithm management (or, for that matter, key management) could have very serious results for the Internet community. But that is surely not news. If there is a weakness in trying to "add security" to an existing widely-deployed system, it's that the addition is usually a good place to really screw things up in practice. Since the alternative is apparently to replace DNS (in effect "reformat and reinstall the Internet), it seems like we have settled on the better of the two options; but it comes with a risk. Given the complexity of NSEC3, I don't think it should be a surprise either that advice to operators is not going to be perfect. I don't see how putting off obtaining any operational experience with this protocol is going to yield better results than trying to come up with a perfect solution to every possible, but unlikely, use case. We have users who are ready to try to deploy this, and we have running code. I don't think we should hold up the documents over disagreements about the precise words with which to advise operators, and I really don't think we should go back to the working group for another year or two. There comes a time to ship, and we're past it. Best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada <andrew@ca.afilias.info> M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 12:15:12 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiuVD-0001hR-KT; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:15:11 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiuVC-0005yk-7U; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:15:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IiuPs-000LJy-K8 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:09:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.23] (helo=mx3.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <roy@nominet.org.uk>) id 1IiuPp-000LJ2-Jh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:09:38 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,301,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="11845556" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2007 17:09:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710190750000.24655@mint.samweiler.com> To: Sam Weiler <weiler@tislabs.com> Cc: iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: <OF3300E512.5BBFFFD0-ON80257379.00551015-C1257379.0058BA4F@nominet.org.uk> From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:09:33 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 19/10/2007 05:09:33 PM, Serialize complete at 19/10/2007 05:09:33 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Sam Weiler <weiler@tislabs.com> wrote on 10/19/2007 05:14:43 PM: > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Roy Arends wrote: > > > I see this as the one way to avoid a complete bankruptcy of the IETF > > standardization process around NSEC3. > > I'm not sure what problem you're seeing, but I encourage you to take > an active role in improving the process you see as broken. I'd love to, but it seems that my hands are full with NSEC3 right now. > Personally, I see the current events as a resounding success of IETF > process, demonstrating the benefit of broad cross-area review. > > After the NSEC3 document was put forward for IETF review (IETF LC on > May 9th), one AD identified hash agility[1] as being underdocumented > (on June 5th). Many area directors chipped in. I've addressed all their comments. Given feedback on suggested text. Sending out reminders when the deafening silence remained for weeks. It finally took a conference call to hash out (no pun intended) the agility problem. But I do apologize for the delay on my side. I had a two week holiday. > On October 16th, we saw a new document that included a > longer description of how to handle hash agility. Within 48 hours of > that document being published, a new problem was found with the > mechanism described. > > And the WG is actively discussing how to > proceed. We have bend over backwards to organize several workshops, spend a considerable amount of money to get vendors to implement this, have spend over three years on the NSEC3 standardization process. We've baby-sat this document through SECDIR and IESG. We have exhausted the working group (and I can imagine the IESG) by this process, which resulted in the authors walking on eggs to keep folks interested. I see that as the modus operandi these days to get things standardized in the IETF. Expensive, exhaustive, it might even be worth the effort. What I meant with the complete bankruptcy of the ietf standardization process is that at any time the process can be put to a grinding halt to discuss mere trivialities and wording changes like the stuff about the rationale we've been going back on forth on. It would be good to have a process 'with defaults', i.e. If folks can't come to an agreement, we default to X. That would include a strong, active and unbiased shepherding process management. > [1] Which, as far as I recall, is an completely untested part of the > spec. The transition mechanism was tested for NSEC to NSEC3-sha1. It will work for transition between NSEC3-sha1 to NSEC3-shanew. It doesn't work for validators that have NOT implemented sha1, and only sha256. IIRC THERE ARE NO SUCH IMPLEMENTATIONS. If there would be such implementations, then validation _for those_ would not work during transition, and by that time, a BCP document can deal with it. I should have put 'mandatory to implement' for SHA1 in the document early on. I can't stress this enough: it was an operation text, not an implementation text. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From Dowlingxvw@stevenpittassociates.com Fri Oct 19 12:32:54 2007 Return-path: <Dowlingxvw@stevenpittassociates.com> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiumM-0003o1-IH for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:32:54 -0400 Received: from [88.245.78.230] (helo=[88.245.78.230]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiumG-0006fo-1w for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:32:49 -0400 Received: by 10.35.61.175 with SMTP id eTCaefigKNAVA; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:32:46 +0300 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.51.96 with SMTP id fQXHLsJesqMDJG.2828678993144; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:32:44 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000701c8126d$ab25de20$e64ef558@bilgiislem> From: "Ralf Dowling" <Dowlingxvw@stevenpittassociates.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: derhftig Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:32:41 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81286.D0731620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C81286.D0731620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Monday update. 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: <OFA9604A7E.BA41471B-ON80257379.00670480-C1257379.00684045@nominet.org.uk> From: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:59:06 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 19/10/2007 07:59:05 PM, Serialize complete at 19/10/2007 07:59:05 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> wrote on 10/19/2007 06:29:55 PM: > I'm going to ask the security directorate to review your proposal. My > personal belief is that requiring a transition through insecure is not > OK, but I want to get the opinion of other security experts. There is no such thing as 'requiring a transition through insecure'. We don't require anything. The proposed text is one method of doing it "gradually". One of many, but guaranteed to work. Besides, going through insecure is an option. If operators can transition within one zone increment, the insecure state is unnecessary but it would not be gradually, it would be sudden. But that would be another method, and there a plenty of methods to pick from. > If others agree with you, then your text is fine. > > If we're still > stuck, then we probably want to take a step back and see what the > requirements are for algorithm agility. If we're still stuck, then we probably want to address this either in a separate operational document, or in the document that allocates this new hash algorithm for NSEC3 purposes. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 16:44:50 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IiyiA-0007ZR-4W; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:44:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iiyi4-0001kv-Up; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:44:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IiyaZ-000PWl-It for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:36:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <namedroppers@mail.ogud.com>) id 1IiyaX-000PWI-4F for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:36:58 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9JKarnC076294 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:36:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9JKar5k076293 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:36:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hartmans@mit.edu>) id 1Iiujb-000NqD-GU for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:30:04 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id E1F6E4A45; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:29:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> To: Roy Arends <roy@nominet.org.uk> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:29:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> (Roy Arends's message of "Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:42:28 +0200") Message-ID: <tslwstj3w58.fsf@mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] I'm going to ask the security directorate to review your proposal. My personal belief is that requiring a transition through insecure is not OK, but I want to get the opinion of other security experts. If others agree with you, then your text is fine. 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The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://creasehear.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_1D77C4_01C812D3.4E7C0850-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 20 11:15:53 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjG3M-0008Mb-Aa; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:15:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjG3E-0005Di-4d; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:15:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IjFw2-000NM9-Je for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:08:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <ogud@ogud.com>) id 1IjFvz-000NLr-Uk for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:08:17 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (mail.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9KF7oFo082463; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:07:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200710201507.l9KF7oFo082463@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:06:41 -0400 To: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair <ogud@ogud.com> Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org In-Reply-To: <tslwstj3w58.fsf@mit.edu> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <tslwstj3w58.fsf@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 10.20.30.6 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 <char-hat=on> For what it is worth similar question was asked to the working group about 2 years ago and the answer was that going through unsigned state was better than having in place an untested complicated automated algorithm. Thus the text Roy posted was consistent with the working group consensus on the subject of transition from NSEC to/from NSEC3. See: start of thread: http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2005/msg01087.html Highlighted messages: http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2005/msg01107.html http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2005/msg01156.html Summary by Sam Weiler: http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2005/msg01161.html SamH, due to the distributed nature of DNS and the non-existence of negotiating handshake, DNS is different from most other protocols and needs to be evaluated as a special case. <chair-hat=off> DNS (IMHO) MUST be tuned to the more frequent operations and adding code complexity to handle rare events should be discouraged and only done when absolutely necessary. IFF you/security-directorate think SHA1 is too weak and is going to have to be replaced soon, at this point we can change the digest algorithm to one of your choice, as there is no deployed base. Olafur At 12:29 19/10/2007, Sam Hartman wrote: >I'm going to ask the security directorate to review your proposal. My >personal belief is that requiring a transition through insecure is not >OK, but I want to get the opinion of other security experts. > > >If others agree with you, then your text is fine. If we're still >stuck, then we probably want to take a step back and see what the >requirements are for algorithm agility. > > > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From TerryagoMorgan@gasupreme.us Sat Oct 20 19:10:16 2007 Return-path: <TerryagoMorgan@gasupreme.us> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjNSS-000724-3Q for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:10:16 -0400 Received: from pool-68-239-44-223.bos.east.verizon.net ([68.239.44.223] helo=user60skqvdzpc.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjNSR-0007ue-DU for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:10:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host24190918.gasupreme.us (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id RYoNruwE16.874686.oFQ.kOw.9800207607105 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:11:13 +0500 Message-ID: <d529501c8136e$b863aed0$2e01a8c0@user60skqvdzpc> From: "Douglas Perez" <TerryagoMorgan@gasupreme.us> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Approval process Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:11:13 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_D5291_01C8136E.B863AED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_D5291_01C8136E.B863AED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_D5291_01C8136E.B863AED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://creasehear.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_D5291_01C8136E.B863AED0-- From ElliotgigacycleKemp@zabasearch.com Sat Oct 20 23:43:35 2007 Return-path: <ElliotgigacycleKemp@zabasearch.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjRix-0003hT-KC for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:43:35 -0400 Received: from pool-72-93-75-143.bstnma.fios.verizon.net ([72.93.75.143] helo=tyfghfghho08c1.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjRix-0000Le-Cn for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:43:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host02921666.zabasearch.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id xqtNBPyY47.923546.naU.yH6.8747616327827 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:44:32 +0800 Message-ID: <824ee01c81412$7b87e6d0$0201a8c0@tyfghfghho08c1> From: "Norbert Cline" <ElliotgigacycleKemp@zabasearch.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Hi Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:44:32 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_824EA_01C81412.7B87E6D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_824EA_01C81412.7B87E6D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_824EA_01C81412.7B87E6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://marketpart.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_824EA_01C81412.7B87E6D0-- From zso2chelm@advinc.com Sun Oct 21 04:10:19 2007 Return-path: <zso2chelm@advinc.com> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVt5-00067d-7H for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:10:19 -0400 Received: from [85.99.15.173] (helo=dsl.dynamic859915173.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVsx-0001d9-Lx for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:10:13 -0400 Received: (qmail 11648 invoked from network); Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:09:20 +0300 Received: from unknown (HELO bxst) (162.71.236.74) by dsl.dynamic859915173.ttnet.net.tr with SMTP; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:09:20 +0300 Message-ID: <001a01c813b9$af1b2b50$4aec47a2@bxst> From: <zso2chelm@advinc.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: You have just received an ecard. 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padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_110941_01C813D2.6C459AE0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Oct 21 07:58:41 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjZS5-0001SK-Iu; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:58:41 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjZRv-0001v3-CY; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:58:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IjZJ7-000EA4-0P for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:49:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <namedroppers@mail.ogud.com>) id 1IjZJ2-000E9i-W7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:49:22 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9LBnGHB087421 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:49:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9LBnGGS087420 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:49:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [204.152.184.138] (helo=mail2.ntp.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <mayer@ntp.isc.org>) id 1IjRNo-0004pX-Nx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:21:45 +0000 Received: from 65-86-158-146.client.dsl.net (65-86-158-146.client.dsl.net [65.86.158.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBB9398AE; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:21:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayer@ntp.isc.org) Received: from cust-63-209-225-184.bos-dynamic.gis.net ([63.209.225.184] helo=[10.10.10.100]) by 65-86-158-146.client.dsl.net with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <mayer@ntp.isc.org>) id 1IjRNa-00072i-PI; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:21:31 -0400 Message-ID: <471AC53A.7020907@ntp.isc.org> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:19:22 -0400 From: Danny Mayer <mayer@ntp.isc.org> Reply-To: mayer@ntp.isc.org User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, References: <OF1A11B4BA.43395858-ON80257377.002F6BC2-C1257377.002FD83C@nominet.org.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710180203520.13365@mint.samweiler.com> <47179A4C.5050606@verisign.com> <tsl7ilke0r8.fsf@mit.edu> <4717ACEF.5060907@verisign.com> <19159.1192737248@sa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <19159.1192737248@sa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-kostecke.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-kostecke.net-MailScanner-From: mayer@ntp.isc.org X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] Paul Vixie wrote: >>> Blacka,> 1) Generate the new NSEC3 records. ... >>> >>> I agree that 8.1 says that unknown hash algorithms should be ignored. >>> However the text in 8.2 says that I can treat a zone as bogus ... >> Hm, good point. I guess I was thinking that if you were ignoring them >> based on 8.1, then they wouldn't count based on 8.2. But if ... > > gentlemen, the dnssec train was stopped to let NSEC3 on, and i'd take it > as a personal favour if the design could be finished, tested, proved out, > and made ready for deployment, so that we can restart that train. basic > arguments about feature level and design implications have no place at > the 11th hour. is this thing close to being ready to go, or not? I agree with Paul on this. Also I don't think this group really has a charter any more to make changes. Danny -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Oct 21 09:05:30 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjaUk-00036U-Ez; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:05:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjaUj-0005Ty-8d; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:05:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IjaPv-000KgU-Qz for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:00:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <roy@nominet.org.uk>) id 1IjaPt-000Kg9-Dg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:00:30 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,306,1188774000"; d="scan'208";a="10582305" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2007 14:00:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200710201507.l9KF7oFo082463@ogud.com> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= <ogud@ogud.com> Cc: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>, iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V702MAC_11052006 November 05, 2006 Message-ID: <OF1C1B1926.37CA6DBE-ON8025737B.003A35CA-C125737B.00477310@nominet.org.uk> From: roy@nominet.org.uk Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:00:27 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 21/10/2007 02:00:27 PM, Serialize complete at 21/10/2007 02:00:27 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Olafur Gudmundsson wrote on 10/20/2007 05:06:41 PM: > IFF you/security-directorate think SHA1 is too weak and is going to have to be > replaced soon, Hash functions for NSEC3 do not require collision resistance. The important cryptographic property here is pre-image resistance. IFF this property is considered somewhat weak in SHA-1, keep in mind that it can be mitigated by some factor using a higher iterations value. However, I have yet to see evidence that the pre-image resistance property of SHA1 is broken or even weak in such a way that it can be used to violate the NSEC3 design requirement "DNSSEC-ter should not make it easier to enumerate zones than it is with plain DNS.". > at this point we can change the digest algorithm to one > of your choice, as there is no deployed base. I refuse to change the digest algorithm at this point for arbitrary reasons. There is no deployment exactly because folks want to make last minute changes long after any last calls have ended. Roy -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From BennieteaspoonCannon@spacemanincuba.com Sun Oct 21 10:36:33 2007 Return-path: <BennieteaspoonCannon@spacemanincuba.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijbur-000685-Gy for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:36:33 -0400 Received: from [200.114.21.127] (helo=santos0192533b) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijbum-0000gV-HQ for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:36:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host14621634.spacemanincuba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id tGRejFb194.703207.EWn.bnU.0845755645503 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:35:45 +0500 Message-ID: <6d3501c813ef$bb0b4a90$7f1572c8@SANTOS0192533B> From: "Marco Newton" <BennieteaspoonCannon@spacemanincuba.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your order Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:35:45 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_6D31_01C813EF.BB0B4A90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_6D31_01C813EF.BB0B4A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_78A65_01C8140D.FCB37990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_78A65_01C8140D.FCB37990-- From NoahstatisticianRoy@switchboard.com Sun Oct 21 15:14:08 2007 Return-path: <NoahstatisticianRoy@switchboard.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjgFU-0004Ca-CB for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:14:08 -0400 Received: from 84.120.222.74.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.120.222.74] helo=andreaff07334a) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjgFJ-0005Hq-Kv for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:14:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host04280860.switchboard.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 135PctVe23.957260.NB7.p6s.5132847979069 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:13:03 -0100 Message-ID: <9df4501c81416$87e4bd50$4ade7854@andreaff07334a> From: "Doyle Moran" <NoahstatisticianRoy@switchboard.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Approval process Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:13:03 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_9DF41_01C81416.87E4BD50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000782-4, 20/10/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_9DF41_01C81416.87E4BD50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_9DF41_01C81416.87E4BD50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_9DF41_01C81416.87E4BD50-- From YvettepigskinQuintana@wikipedia.org Sun Oct 21 22:37:51 2007 Return-path: <YvettepigskinQuintana@wikipedia.org> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjnAt-00049S-M4 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:37:51 -0400 Received: from 206-248-174-186.dsl.teksavvy.com ([206.248.174.186] helo=g.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjnAt-0007lJ-A5 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:37:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host28081088.wikipedia.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id PJKkzBHn80.380774.LDu.uFo.5090051144363 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:38:13 +0500 Message-ID: <20a4301c81454$a4331a40$6500a8c0@G> From: "Lula Lund" <YvettepigskinQuintana@wikipedia.org> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your life Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:38:13 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_20A3F_01C81454.A4331A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_20A3F_01C81454.A4331A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_20A3F_01C81454.A4331A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_20A3F_01C81454.A4331A40-- From AlisonfirLand@williebird.com Sun Oct 21 22:38:18 2007 Return-path: <AlisonfirLand@williebird.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjnBJ-0004Ez-Vr for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:38:18 -0400 Received: from 206-248-174-186.dsl.teksavvy.com ([206.248.174.186] helo=g.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjnAz-0007lZ-9W for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:37:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host83890664.williebird.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id bLT2LMZm57.611464.rWe.GG0.9058327854436 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:38:13 +0500 Message-ID: <20a4a01c81454$a45484f0$6500a8c0@G> From: "Kristy Albright" <AlisonfirLand@williebird.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your order Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:38:13 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_20A46_01C81454.A45484F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_20A46_01C81454.A45484F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_20A46_01C81454.A45484F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$789.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1325.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_20A46_01C81454.A45484F0-- From VincentfreebootSullivan@sun-sentinel.com Mon Oct 22 01:10:38 2007 Return-path: <VincentfreebootSullivan@sun-sentinel.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjpYk-0001OV-NU for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:10:38 -0400 Received: from pool-71-174-23-115.bstnma.east.verizon.net ([71.174.23.115] helo=pc343027361144.domainnotset.invalid) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjpY9-000727-L4 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:10:03 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host30736794.sun-sentinel.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id rHOS3mnH45.979264.Etu.9XN.1619907530535 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:08:03 +0500 Message-ID: <1586e201c81469$bbd996a0$4101a8c0@PC343027361144> From: "Bryan Gibson" <VincentfreebootSullivan@sun-sentinel.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your family Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:08:03 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1586DE_01C81469.BBD996A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1586DE_01C81469.BBD996A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_1586DE_01C81469.BBD996A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://sendring.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_1586DE_01C81469.BBD996A0-- From BlakecomprehensiveTate@policing-crowds.org Mon Oct 22 03:09:13 2007 Return-path: <BlakecomprehensiveTate@policing-crowds.org> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjrPU-0003cN-Sv for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:09:12 -0400 Received: from 238.pool85-49-73.dynamic.orange.es ([85.49.73.238] helo=winxp0e0b744d6.home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjrPM-0004Ll-Sa for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:09:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host51994104.policing-crowds.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id DNdKe36F86.364672.Wfb.67K.8607072301261 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:08:12 -0100 Message-ID: <125f7a01c8147a$65db5de0$8000a8c0@winxp0e0b744d6> From: "Andres Mann" <BlakecomprehensiveTate@policing-crowds.org> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your order Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:08:12 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_125F76_01C8147A.65DB5DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_125F76_01C8147A.65DB5DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_125F76_01C8147A.65DB5DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_125F76_01C8147A.65DB5DE0-- From sheila_Jangda@realitycentral.com Mon Oct 22 03:28:02 2007 Return-path: <sheila_Jangda@realitycentral.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijrhi-0007Ia-Lb for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:28:02 -0400 Received: from [213.91.244.12] (helo=[213.91.244.12]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ijrhc-00058j-8p for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:27:57 -0400 Received: by 10.51.39.28 with SMTP id ODVzzcTfiloIK; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:27:57 +0300 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.117.103 with SMTP id TOJEzJlTEwmBXt.0951727902554; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:27:55 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000701c8147d$0e518470$0cf45bd5@6tabapc> From: "sheila Jangda" <sheila_Jangda@realitycentral.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: rsmiehen Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:27:52 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C81496.339EBC70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C81496.339EBC70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hello buddy dnsext-archive you cant hide a small cock from her, so make it humungous! 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With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "Blacka," == Blacka, David <davidb@verisign.com> writes: Blacka,> Sam Hartman wrote: >> Roy, consider what happens when we decide a hash algorithm is >> weak. What you seem to be saying is that we need to deploy the >> new hash algorithm everywhere before we can start withdrawing >> it anywhere. Blacka,> I don't understand this statement. Let's say we find some problem with SHA-1. We'll probably specify a new hash--perhaps SHA-256. Unless things are really grim for SHA-1 (a situation I consider so unlikely as to ignore), we'll start by recommending that people accept both hashes. However the eventual goal will be to retire SHA-1. However as attacks progress on SHA-1, we will eventually get to a point where its use is counter-indicated and that sites with strong security policies want to instruct their validators to treat SHA-1 as insecure. In order to avoid sites seeing SHA-1 to SHA-256 transitions as bogus, we need to have everyone transition before the first sites make a reasonable security policy decision that SHA-1 is insecure. >> That seems problematic. It seems that after a certain point >> you're going to want to set validator policies that the old >> algorithm is no longer sufficient and should be treated as >> insecure. However under the current strategy it actually ends >> up bogus rather than insecure. Blacka,> This statement seems a bit misleading, but maybe it is Blacka,> just me. I read it as "once you declare the old hash Blacka,> algorithm as bad, my validator is going to see all Blacka,> NSEC3-OLDALG-signed zones as bogus". Which isn't true. Blacka,> I'll agree that in the procedure outlined in 10.4, the Blacka,> zone will be seen as bogus between steps 1 and 3, which Blacka,> is probably not a very long time. But the end state is Blacka,> fine. Blacka,> I am quite curious, however, as to what sort of thing we Blacka,> are going to have to find out about SHA1 to actually want Blacka,> to treat zones using signed using NSEC3-SHA1 as insecure? Blacka,> I'll just point out that NSEC3 doesn't use SHA-1 in quite Blacka,> the same way as in RSASHA1 (e.g.), so the same attack Blacka,> scenarios don't necessarily apply. For example, I don't Blacka,> think that a collision attack is particularly relevant. Blacka,> However, I'm not a crypto expert, so I may be talking out Blacka,> of my hat. Blacka,> -- David Blacka <davidb@verisign.com> Sr. Engineer Blacka,> VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 10:42:22 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjyU2-0001fS-IX; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:42:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjyU1-0005ip-BX; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:42:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IjyK3-00049E-Qm for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:32:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <namedroppers@mail.ogud.com>) id 1IjyK0-00043J-RV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:32:02 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9MEVDfQ094462 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:31:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9MEVD7J094461 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:31:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hartmans@mit.edu>) id 1Ijxxo-0001hh-8T for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:09:05 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 033654A45; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> To: roy@nominet.org.uk Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= <ogud@ogud.com>, iesg@iesg.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. References: <OF1C1B1926.37CA6DBE-ON8025737B.003A35CA-C125737B.00477310@nominet.org.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:09:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <OF1C1B1926.37CA6DBE-ON8025737B.003A35CA-C125737B.00477310@nominet.org.uk> (roy@nominet.org.uk's message of "Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:00:27 +0200") Message-ID: <tsl7ilfb5s2.fsf@mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "roy" == roy <roy@nominet.org.uk> writes: roy> Olafur Gudmundsson wrote on 10/20/2007 05:06:41 PM: >> IFF you/security-directorate think SHA1 is too weak and is >> going to have roy> to be >> replaced soon, roy> Hash functions for NSEC3 do not require collision roy> resistance. True. roy> The important cryptographic property here is roy> pre-image resistance. IFF this property is considered roy> somewhat weak in SHA-1, keep in mind that it can be mitigated roy> by some factor using a higher iterations value. I disagree that preimage-resistance is sufficient for NSEC3's needs. I agree that a hash that does not have primage-resistance is broken for NSEC3. However you're looking for something stronger. In particular, you want to hide as much information as possible about the input. Pre-image resistance only guarantees that I cannot actually find the input; it doesn't say too much about how much information about the input is leaked by the hash. Now, there are upper-bounds on how much you can leak and still get preimage-resistance. However it's safe to say that the cryptographic requirements of NSEC3 are kind of complicated and that we have no good formal model for them or thinking about whether hashes satisfy them short of random oracle. --Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 10:42:25 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjyU4-0001k6-S3; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:42:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjyU3-0005iv-Iz; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:42:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1IjyJj-00045a-V4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:31:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <namedroppers@mail.ogud.com>) id 1IjyJh-0003zm-2A for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:31:42 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9MEUTZA094455 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:30:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9MEUTQk094454 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:30:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hartmans@mit.edu>) id 1Ijx8r-000LVt-7R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:16:29 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 275AA4A45; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> To: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:16:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> (Andrew Sullivan's message of "Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:57:40 -0400") Message-ID: <tsloderb87s.fsf@mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> writes: Andrew> Dear colleagues, Andrew> On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 02:26:35PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: >> on the basis of this thread, my advice to the working group and >> to IESG is to reject the NSEC3 proposal and ask that it be >> taken off the standards track and returned to the working group >> for further development. we're tinkering with the final >> product on the outbound loading dock while the truck's motor is >> running, and the things we're tinkering with are potentially >> explosive after they reach the field. Andrew> I understand the point of the argument above, but I cannot Andrew> say I agree with it. In my view, Roy has already pointed Andrew> out something important about the apparently controversial Andrew> text: it's really just courtesy advice to operators, and Andrew> doesn't affect implementation or interoperability as such. Andrew> It's also not critical to deployment. I actually think it is critical to deployment because it is critical to security. One of the most critical aspects of security deployment is the ability to deal with security problems and to fix them in a secure manner. So, yes, deciding what we require of NSEC3 for algorithm agility and convincing ourselves that we have the facilities to meet that is in fact a necessary exit condition to standardize NSEC3 or any other security sensitive technology. In principle, if we were convinced that we knew how to solve the problem and that we had the right facilities, we might not need to actually write up the solution in this document. However we're not yet convinced we have the right facilities or even that we understand what problem we're solving. --Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From OpalbonnetAlbright@arstechnica.com Mon Oct 22 11:29:49 2007 Return-path: <OpalbonnetAlbright@arstechnica.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzDx-0002aW-IA for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:29:49 -0400 Received: from host150-asun1.personalnet.com.py ([200.3.249.150] helo=cesar) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzDt-0008MI-VW for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:29:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host05077689.arstechnica.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id GHTONXkG83.566545.O5e.gPR.9125167613394 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:10 +0400 Message-ID: <6e02b01c814bf$a65d98c0$ba0ac90a@cesar> From: "Lee Padgett" <OpalbonnetAlbright@arstechnica.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Approval process Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:10 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_6E027_01C814BF.A65D98C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Antivirus: avast! 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Message-ID: <20071022180548.GA13724@afilias.info> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> <tsloderb87s.fsf@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <tsloderb87s.fsf@mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Dear colleagues, On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 09:16:23AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote: > One of the most critical aspects of security deployment is the ability > to deal with security problems and to fix them in a secure manner. If I understand the arguments so far -- and I do not pretend to be a security expert -- the above is precisely the premise others are denying. That is (as I understand it) if you _really really_ had a problem that demanded immediate withdrawal of an algorithm in use, then the fall-back answer is to go through the insecure state. That is not ideal, but it appears anyway to be a corner case for which nobody has yet provided a precedent, and that makes us no worse off than we are today while possibly getting us some advantages. More worrisome, to me, is this: > In principle, if we were convinced that we knew how to solve the > problem and that we had the right facilities, we might not need to > actually write up the solution in this document. However we're not > yet convinced we have the right facilities or even that we understand > what problem we're solving. The above sounds to me like a claim that the requirements for agility are not yet known, and the problem itself is not completely understood. So the proposal is to refuse to standardise on a technology that appears to solve most cases, because it is possibly incomplete. In addition, it seems there is an implicit proposal to get a requirements document for agility, which would entail understanding the problem completely. So, in favour of adoption is that we can deploy in the shorter term, and gain experience; and if the worst happens, we are no worse off than we are today. Whereas if we do not publish the documents now, we open the can of worms again, and we wait a couple more years for any benefit. Against standardisation on what we have now is that it may not be completely bulletproof, and is certainly not provably so. I believe that security is not an absolute value, but a trade-off. The present trade-off seems worth it to me, and I have yet to see a strong argument that the advantage is not worth the admitted risk in adopting what we have. I'm totally prepared to admit I may be missing something, but so far as I can tell, those advocating more design work are arguing that anything less than a comprehensive solution -- one that covers cases we have never seen and that some think are irrelevant -- is not enough. I don't feel comfortable saying anything more on this topic, since I'm not a security expert. But if someone can describe why the above characterisation of the two points of view is mistaken, I'd really appreciate it. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada <andrew@ca.afilias.info> M2P 2A8 jabber: ajsaf@jabber.org +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From a-act-owner@abipr.com Mon Oct 22 14:38:33 2007 Return-path: <a-act-owner@abipr.com> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2Ab-0006CX-58; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:38:33 -0400 Received: from 77-253-250-28.adsl.inetia.pl ([77.253.250.28] helo=julia) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik28Q-0001Rv-Gm; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:38:33 -0400 Received: from [77.253.250.28] by abipr.com.s5b2.psmtp.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:57:33 +0100 From: "Diane Monroe" <a-act-owner@abipr.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Can we talk? Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:57:33 +0100 Message-ID: <01c814e5$c9036b90$1cfafd4d@a-act-owner> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Hello! I am tired this evening. I am nice girl that would like to chat with you. Email me at qiulb@GreatGloveCell.info only, because I am writing not from my personal email. To see my pics From TiastrictureShaver@across.net Mon Oct 22 14:52:40 2007 Return-path: <TiastrictureShaver@across.net> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2OG-0006Av-Ls for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:52:40 -0400 Received: from 84.120.229.33.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.120.229.33] helo=acer796297fe27) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2OD-000118-0f for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:52:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host77862983.across.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id gXV3qTRA87.850380.31l.Z1s.7886759762518 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:52:10 -0100 Message-ID: <044301c814dc$b4aa7610$0a00a8c0@acer796297fe27> From: "Alexandria Crenshaw" <TiastrictureShaver@across.net> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your health Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:52:10 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_043F_01C814DC.B4AA7610" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_043F_01C814DC.B4AA7610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_043F_01C814DC.B4AA7610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_043F_01C814DC.B4AA7610-- From ErickafamilyMccracken@flickr.com Mon Oct 22 14:52:49 2007 Return-path: <ErickafamilyMccracken@flickr.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2OP-000644-Ea for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:52:49 -0400 Received: from 84.120.229.33.dyn.user.ono.com ([84.120.229.33] helo=acer796297fe27) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2OB-00010s-M5 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:52:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host57418077.flickr.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 3gRWTzcn64.652732.m5j.ysj.4480836133365 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:52:10 -0100 Message-ID: <043501c814dc$b467c7c0$0a00a8c0@acer796297fe27> From: "Ericka Neff" <ErickafamilyMccracken@flickr.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your life Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:52:10 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0431_01C814DC.B467C7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0431_01C814DC.B467C7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_0431_01C814DC.B467C7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0431_01C814DC.B467C7C0-- From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Oct 22 16:31:15 2007 Return-path: <> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik3vf-0007Hl-0y for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:31:15 -0400 Received: from mail.hoyausa.com ([64.169.85.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik3u2-0006LY-FP for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:31:15 -0400 From: postmaster@hoyausa.com To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:31:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="9B095B5ADSN=_01C80E90BC0880D400027FBDmail.hoyausa.com" X-DSNContext: 335a7efd - 4523 - 00000001 - 80040546 Message-ID: <BtdQdjaMK0001049e@mail.hoyausa.com> Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc This is a MIME-formatted message. Portions of this message may be unreadable without a MIME-capable mail program. --9B095B5ADSN=_01C80E90BC0880D400027FBDmail.hoyausa.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unicode-1-1-utf-7 This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed. zqafraud@hoyausa.com zqkwednesday@hoyausa.com zturkey@hoyausa.com zvhactress@hoyausa.com --9B095B5ADSN=_01C80E90BC0880D400027FBDmail.hoyausa.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns;mail.hoyausa.com Received-From-MTA: dns;23-157-222-201.adsl.terra.cl Arrival-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:31:15 -0700 Final-Recipient: rfc822;zqafraud@hoyausa.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Final-Recipient: rfc822;zqkwednesday@hoyausa.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Final-Recipient: rfc822;zturkey@hoyausa.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Final-Recipient: rfc822;zvhactress@hoyausa.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 --9B095B5ADSN=_01C80E90BC0880D400027FBDmail.hoyausa.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from 23-157-222-201.adsl.terra.cl ([201.222.157.23]) by mail.hoyausa.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:31:15 -0700 Received: from [10.0.35.124] (HELO RdjeG) by 189-46-123-11.dsl.telesp.net.br with SMTP id 82HeYRXBsabCHq; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:29:11 +0300 Message-ID: <00be01c814ea$2c686100$7c23000a@RdjeG> From: "Marisha" <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> To: "zqafraud" <zqafraud@hoyausa.com> Subject: Re[4]: it's wonderful to know u Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:29:11 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2007 20:31:16.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EBA23D0:01C814EA] Ave, dear I have always dreamt of being a housewife. I think that it is the highest level of the comfort a woman can give to her man: Just imagine yourself coming home from work, and the supper is ready, the house is clean, kids are tidy and ready for school, and you can take your dearest family out for a picnic for weekends and also to the entertainment park. Or watch football with your son, while I will be enjoying just seeing two of you cheering for your favorite team. And all the neighbors will be saying: "it is a wonderful family" about us: I don't give promises which I can't prove, so I promise that when we like each other I will give to you all my love. You can share your thoughts with me at http://russobride.info/?idAff=101 and tell me that you with to continue our acquaintance. See you Marisha --9B095B5ADSN=_01C80E90BC0880D400027FBDmail.hoyausa.com-- From GregorymccluskeyWalker@soyouwanna.com Mon Oct 22 17:12:21 2007 Return-path: <GregorymccluskeyWalker@soyouwanna.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik4ZR-0008S0-BK for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:12:21 -0400 Received: from [201.238.187.83] (helo=digital) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik4ZN-0003Iq-Ut for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:12:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host58175909.soyouwanna.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id aXylVcFp55.198376.99M.w7T.2589073220158 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:09:54 +0500 Message-ID: <c441901c814f0$363c30c0$0500000a@digital> From: "Jerry Lopez" <GregorymccluskeyWalker@soyouwanna.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your order approved Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:09:54 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_C4415_01C814F0.363C30C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_C4415_01C814F0.363C30C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 = minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_C4415_01C814F0.363C30C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Viagra would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$99.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$449.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$769.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$1299.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td> </tr> </table></center> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed = up…<br> When you are aged and never give up…<br> Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p> </div> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_C4415_01C814F0.363C30C0-- From ClaudettecompleatLovett@gobritney.com Mon Oct 22 17:52:07 2007 Return-path: <ClaudettecompleatLovett@gobritney.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5Bv-0006U0-Tm for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:52:07 -0400 Received: from [201.221.150.96] (helo=planta) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5Bg-0005dI-Qs for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:51:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host59275654.gobritney.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 2KqeaoUl09.746278.eDY.tSf.7120488456157 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:51:33 +0500 Message-ID: <12629801c814f5$c4fac150$1201a8c0@PLANTA> From: "Tonia Roland" <ClaudettecompleatLovett@gobritney.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your family Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:51:33 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_126294_01C814F5.C4FAC150" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_126294_01C814F5.C4FAC150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just = disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 = minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $95.95 $34.19 30 tabs 60 doses $349.95 $104.66 60 tabs 120 doses $549.95 $180.15 90 tabs 180 doses $789.95 $242.06 180 tabs 360 doses $1325.95 $445.61 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_126294_01C814F5.C4FAC150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD>=20 <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; = border: 3px=20 solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;"> <p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis would=20 help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable = plesure=20 to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for = action in=20 15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking = this=20 medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p> <center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: = #ffd; width:=20 90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;"> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your = local drugstore*</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our = price</b></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: = #ffa;"=20 rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: = 14pt;=20 text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a = href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20 style=3D"text-decoration: = none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$95.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$349.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike = style=3D"color:=20 #777;">$549.95</strike></td> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span = style=3D"color: #900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; 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Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:25:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5hz-0000B5-Tu; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:25:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Ik5ag-0002Nr-SL for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:17:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [204.152.184.167] (helo=mx.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <Mark_Andrews@isc.org>) id 1Ik5ae-0002MC-3n for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:17:41 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5800611402C for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:17:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AACFE6059 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:17:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9MMGpKu045247; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:16:52 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200710222216.l9MMGpKu045247@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> Cc: "Blacka, David" <davidb@verisign.com>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org From: Mark Andrews <Mark_Andrews@isc.org> Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 12, In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:12:30 -0400." <tslfy03mjpt.fsf@mit.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:16:51 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 > [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by > a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. > With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore > delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. > Please fix your subscription addresses. ] > > >>>>> "Blacka," == Blacka, David <davidb@verisign.com> writes: > > Blacka,> Sam Hartman wrote: > >> Roy, consider what happens when we decide a hash algorithm is > >> weak. What you seem to be saying is that we need to deploy the > >> new hash algorithm everywhere before we can start withdrawing > >> it anywhere. > > Blacka,> I don't understand this statement. Let's say we find > some problem with SHA-1. We'll probably specify a new hash--perhaps > SHA-256. Unless things are really grim for SHA-1 (a situation I > consider so unlikely as to ignore), we'll start by recommending that > people accept both hashes. > > However the eventual goal will be to retire SHA-1. > > However as attacks progress on SHA-1, we will eventually get to a > point where its use is counter-indicated and that sites with strong > security policies want to instruct their validators to treat SHA-1 as > insecure. > > In order to avoid sites seeing SHA-1 to SHA-256 transitions as bogus, > we need to have everyone transition before the first sites make a > reasonable security policy decision that SHA-1 is insecure. > > > >> That seems problematic. It seems that after a certain point > >> you're going to want to set validator policies that the old > >> algorithm is no longer sufficient and should be treated as > >> insecure. However under the current strategy it actually ends > >> up bogus rather than insecure. > > Blacka,> This statement seems a bit misleading, but maybe it is > Blacka,> just me. I read it as "once you declare the old hash > Blacka,> algorithm as bad, my validator is going to see all > Blacka,> NSEC3-OLDALG-signed zones as bogus". Which isn't true. > > Blacka,> I'll agree that in the procedure outlined in 10.4, the > Blacka,> zone will be seen as bogus between steps 1 and 3, which > Blacka,> is probably not a very long time. But the end state is > Blacka,> fine. > > Blacka,> I am quite curious, however, as to what sort of thing we > Blacka,> are going to have to find out about SHA1 to actually want > Blacka,> to treat zones using signed using NSEC3-SHA1 as insecure? > > Blacka,> I'll just point out that NSEC3 doesn't use SHA-1 in quite > Blacka,> the same way as in RSASHA1 (e.g.), so the same attack > Blacka,> scenarios don't necessarily apply. For example, I don't > Blacka,> think that a collision attack is particularly relevant. > Blacka,> However, I'm not a crypto expert, so I may be talking out > Blacka,> of my hat. > > Blacka,> -- David Blacka <davidb@verisign.com> Sr. Engineer > Blacka,> VeriSign Infrastructure Product Engineering > > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> This whole discussion is predicated on a resolver that doesn't support a DNSKEY algorithm which indicates a weak NSEC3 hash but supports a DNSKEY algorithm which indicates a stronger NSEC3 hash. The solution is to not publish the DS record, thereby preventing a secure transition to the child zone, until the contents of the child zone are complete. The zone is then provable insecure to that resolver. This is already part of the requirements to publish a DS record. You don't make a per zone choice. You make a per resolver choice. If you do want to make a per zone choice you need to attempt with the stonger algorithm and if that fails you do a insecurity proof of that algorithm before attempting with the weaker algorithm. This behaviour falls within the base DNSSEC as it is equally applicable to NSEC zones as it it to NSEC3 zones. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 19:33:00 2007 Return-path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik6lY-00044u-IH; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:33:00 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik6lX-0004td-Td; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:33:00 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Ik6gd-0009FE-T1 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:27:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.1 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <namedroppers@mail.ogud.com>) id 1Ik6ga-0009Em-TV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:27:54 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9MNRlqh003925 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:27:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l9MNRldX003924 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:27:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [18.188.10.61] (helo=carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hartmans@mit.edu>) id 1Ik4ll-000Mpa-UO for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:25:07 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 9E1F84A45; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:25:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> To: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@iesg.org Subject: Re: no gradual NSEC3 hash transition scheme. References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> <tsloderb87s.fsf@mit.edu> <20071022180548.GA13724@afilias.info> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:25:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20071022180548.GA13724@afilias.info> (Andrew Sullivan's message of "Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:05:49 -0400") Message-ID: <tsl7ile7sgf.fsf@mit.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Sullivan <andrew@ca.afilias.info> writes: Andrew> Dear colleagues, Andrew> On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 09:16:23AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote: >> One of the most critical aspects of security deployment is the >> ability to deal with security problems and to fix them in a >> secure manner. Andrew> If I understand the arguments so far -- and I do not Andrew> pretend to be a security expert -- the above is precisely Andrew> the premise others are denying. That is (as I understand Andrew> it) if you _really really_ had a problem that demanded Andrew> immediate withdrawal of an algorithm in use, then the Andrew> fall-back answer is to go through the insecure state. Note that I'm not talking about quick withdrawal of an algorithm. I'm talking about a phased withdrawal of an algorithm. You decide SHA-1 is problematic today, and want everyone to be done using it say within five years. By that point, people will start considering SHA-1 as insecure even if you have not yet withdrawn it. >From my standpoint, the problem with Roy's new text is that it requires people to go through an insecure state for every transition--even gradual transitions where the desire to start the transition is years ahead of the point when you want to withdraw the algorithm. I agree that dnsext participants seem to disagree with my claim that deployment of new security should happen only after you have transition strategies in place. However, I think there is a broad consensus in the security community behind something similar to my original claim. I believe that consensus is sufficiently broad that we do not have a rough consensus of the IETF to publish a new protocol with a security mechanism that has an inadequate algorithm agility solution. I think the question of whether Roy's new proposed text provides an adequate strategy remains open. My personal opinion is that it is not adequate. However the input I'm getting from the security directorate is not providing particularly strong support for my position. If others don't join that discussion in the next day or two, I'll conclude that I'm in the rough on this issue. Here's one argument why you might prefer to publish nothing rather than to publish something with an incomplete transition strategy. Today, people don't depend on NSEC3. People get whatever level of security they have without assuming the availability of NSEC3 Typically this means they use something other than DNS to provide security. If we publish something without a transition strategy, we could box ourselves into a situation where people depend on NSEC3 but where we don't have the ability to incrementally deploy new algorithms. Personally, I'd consider that situation significantly worse than today's situation. Arguments similar to this are what motivates the concern within the security community behind algorithm agility. I actually think the text in 12 is better than Roy's new text, even given that it does not cover the corner case Sam found. We probably could fix Sam's corner case if we spent more time. --Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> From RickeychinamenMoss@metrohartford.com Mon Oct 22 19:55:57 2007 Return-path: <RickeychinamenMoss@metrohartford.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik77k-0001Pt-Qn for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:55:56 -0400 Received: from 212.40.250.24.dyn.user.ono.com ([212.40.250.24] helo=histars) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik77k-00076B-CG for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:55:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host58396692.metrohartford.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id WUP9S6dT73.105129.Rt9.z7A.8119340786591 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:54:37 +0000 Message-ID: <d81101c81507$149877f0$18fa28d4@histars> From: "Wilbur Tate" <RickeychinamenMoss@metrohartford.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your order approved Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:54:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_D80D_01C81507.149877F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_D80D_01C81507.149877F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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In-Reply-To: <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710191238350.27344@mint.samweiler.com> References: <OF12E0C5D2.456C0825-ON80257379.00310C9E-C1257379.003AC7D8@nominet.org.uk> <8488.1192803995@sa.vix.com> <20071019155738.GB20823@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2007 00:13:48.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[959184D0:01C81509] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:13:51 -0500 (CDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > In my view, Roy has already pointed out something important > about the apparently controversial text: it's really just courtesy > advice to operators, and doesn't affect implementation or > interoperability as such. I disagree: this goes beyond "courtesy advice".[1] In the past, this WG has found it worthwhile to make certain that future extensiblity, including introducing new crypto algorithms, was accomodated by our protocols. In at least one of those cases, we determined that not making changes to the protocol would greatly inhibit the introduction of new crypto algorithms. Someone could try to make this case that this is a different beast and we don't need to specify a hash agility mechanism at all, but that's not what the WG appears to have choosen to do so far. (I'll note that I proposed exactly this in February 2005.[2]) Absent such a case being made, it's entirely appropriate to ask if the hash agility mechanism we've defined actually works. We seem to have determined that the mechanism documented in -12 doesn't work. Let's fix it or make a case that we don't need it after all. > I don't see how putting off obtaining any operational experience > with this protocol is going to yield better results than trying to > come up with a perfect solution to every possible, but unlikely, use > case. We have users who are ready to try to deploy this, and we > have running code. OK, then deploy it. Obtain operational experience. There are no protocol police. -- Sam [1] The fact that this is currently just operational guidance is an artifact of the hash agility mechanism chosen. It's entirely possible that other mechanisms (perhaps ones that work better) will, in fact, impact the on-the-wire protocol and the implementations. 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