From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Dec 01 02:48:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyN5f-0008L9-6j; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 02:48:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyN5e-0002co-O3; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 02:48:43 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IyMy9-0008Mc-9J for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 07:40:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IyMxx-0008L5-Od for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 07:40:51 +0000 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lB17eYkV022851; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:40:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ted@open.nlnetlabs.nl) Received: (from ted@localhost) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lB17eTFa022850; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:40:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ted) Message-Id: <200712010740.lB17eTFa022850@open.nlnetlabs.nl> From: ted@NLnetLabs.nl (Ted Lindgreen) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:40:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Sam Hartman's message as of Nov 30, 17:34" X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: ogud@ogud.com Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Cc: Sam Hartman , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:40:34 +0100 (CET) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 [Quoting Sam Hartman, on Nov 30, 17:34, in "Re: NSEC3, version 1 ..."] > However, since there are objections, I assume the chairs will also > call for support;silence in the presence of objections is not rough > consensus. I share Sam's concern, I also think that silence does not suffice to go forward. NSEC3 is a very complicated protocol extention. Few people, even in this WG, really understand the issues at hand, those who do, should speak up and guarantee the rest of us that all issues are now solved, Regards, -- ted -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Dec 01 11:55:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyVcr-0001Jo-Vr; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 11:55:33 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IyVcp-0006Pc-QI; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 11:55:33 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IyVUa-000GJ6-33 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:47:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.154.224.48] (helo=bert.secret-wg.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IyVU3-000GH1-1U for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:46:43 +0000 Received: from [192.168.100.222] (unknown [207.34.158.232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bert.secret-wg.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 103C7B86B; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:46:22 +0100 (CET) Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ben@links.org, davidb@verisign.com, Sam Hartman , roy@dnss.ec, Sam Weiler , Mark Townsley , Roy Arends Message-Id: From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_/DNSEXT_chair?= In-Reply-To: <200711300544.lAU5iq9B090383@ogud.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-3--822956103" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:46:15 +0100 References: <200711300544.lAU5iq9B090383@ogud.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d50 (Leopard) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-3--822956103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30Nov 2007, at 6:43 AM, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT chair wrote: > Please speak up if this change is of concern to you. > If no one speaks up by Dec 7'th I will tell our AD the changes are > fine. So the change is that the basic-4 steps procedure was removed and =20 replaced with text that amounts to "We'll solve this when we get to =20 this". For those who are not up to speed with the issue that is being =20 addressed, the thread causing all this starts here: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00553.html To me it is clear that the current text postpones dealing with the =20 problem that starts with the premisses in Sam Weiler's observation: "but we aren't (as far as I can tell) requiring that an NSEC3-=20 SHA256-capable resolver also support NSEC3-SHA1" If the requirement to support old algorithms would exist, then the =20 rollover is one that we currently understand. Personally I could imagine that the introduction of a new hashing =20 algorithm would be able to deal with that requirement: If all else =20 fails using the blunt instrument of a flag date. Hopefully there is a =20= more elegant way. Finding resolvers not supporting the old algorithm =20 is unlikely but I appreciate the fact that a corner case remains a =20 corner case and will need to be dealt with. Anyhow, as far as I am concerned, this is a corner case that can be =20 dealt with later. The current text does sufficiently flag this is an =20 issue and I am confident there is at least one blunt way to solve the =20= issue. In other words I am supportive of this change. No hats. --Olaf ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. 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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C83606.07EF1869-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 03 19:41:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLqa-0003PB-Vk; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:41:12 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzLqa-00062N-2G; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:41:12 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLjE-0007hh-0m for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:33:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [64.233.182.185] (helo=nf-out-0910.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLie-0007fj-Sb for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:33:20 +0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id d21so3147468nfb for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:32:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; bh=T14WazcWGCsV4FUE/qqJIy9Yq6e8m2VjKp8uKd5VC4k=; b=JBbe28Va9H1YhiEwT7z2HnzxFFDV9n/8uXDvALa+hyKE9u+Yvl73+bvFm7dzPUGGK4DPo0r27qsMlkttFwPMbIfZvfgo4Ouqpote0fN84GmhiqevuW0NQddCYv69zAGC9pdbfyqmpnLz6BgNEabJ1J71O/WNbEa3oRRNyzAKtTY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:x-google-sender-auth; b=yDMwnJw67EG0bc9IjVG+4NVZ3e6aDO4AMqZ+emgukvjVg6XZ1IysehI9xIG7iNgjPtAmhljd1Rhx+U/Jv5v/4JBYweIvV9Z8PaAAl+RjN2BAnuREHv0QJ0Cu4kCK9cKEzygGPTQlLyBayVsF8d5NiknYT6BWJzHBpF4PEAwD3UI= Received: by 10.78.142.14 with SMTP id p14mr3649505hud.1196728376433; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.206.14 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:32:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:32:56 -0800 From: "Richard Lamb" To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: dnssec-signzone/keygen /w seamless pkcs11 support - Part II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 863e2d264b7fa34b Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b2809b6f39decc6de467dcf252f42af1 December 3, 2007 DNSSEC Enthusiasts- Here is my second version of modifications to BIND for native PKCS11 HSM support (first released June 14 2007 on dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com). The vast majority of changes to BIND are restricted to one file (lib/dns/opensslrsa_link.c). Included are a number of HSM utilities that should also work with any HSM with PKCS11 support such as private key backup using C_Wrap/C_Unwrap. The archive is in fact a snapshot of what IANA is using in its demo DNSSEC system. As there appears to be very little sample pkcs11 code on the net, I hope it is in some way helpful to those of you struggling with this. Feel free to use it or pieces of the code as you please. Contact me if you have any questions and I will try to help. I. How to build and test PKCS11 HSM tools: 1. If you have not done so already, install and configure the PKCS11 library for your HSM. If first time using this HSM this typically includes: a. copying the pkcs11 library into a directory b. enable the HSM c. initialize the HSM Otherwise: a. just enable the HSM 2. Set environment variables: Edit "hsmconfig" to set PKCS11_LIBRARY_PATH to where you put the HSM pkcs11 shared library and edit any other variables needed by your particular HSM. Then run: ". hsmconfig" to set the environment variables. My HSM tools and BIND mods will use PKCS11_LIBRARY_PATH to determine what library to load. 3. Compile the tools: $ wget http://www.xtcn.com/~lamb/pkcs11HSMtools.tar.gz $ tar zxf pkcs11HSMtools.tar.gz $ ./keygenbuild 4. Test $ ./pkcs11-backup -l (after asking for the HSM PIN, this should list the keys in the HSM) or $ ./pkcs11-random 10 randombytes (to use the HSM to put 10 random bytes into a file called "randombytes") II. To build pkcs11 modified BIND: 1. Build $ wget http://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/9.4.1-P1/bind-9.4.1-P1.tar.gz $ tar zxf bind-9.4.1-P1.tar.gz $ mv bind-9.4.1-P1 bind-9.4.1-P1.pkcs11 $ wget http://www.xtcn.com/~lamb/bind-9.4.1-P1.pkcs11.diff $ patch -p0 < bind-9.4.1-P1.pkcs11.diff $ cd bind-9.4.1-P1.pkcs11 $ ./configure $ make 2. To test: $ bin/dnssec/dnssec-keygen -P 123456 -a RSASHA1 -b 1024 -n ZONE ip6.arpa Kip6.arpa.+005+24727 this will generate two (2) files: Kip6.arpa.+005+24727.key Kip6.arpa.+005+24727.private (of course the tag id, 24727, will be different for each new key generation) the contents of Kip6.arpa.+005+24727.key : (the usual dnssec-keygen output) ip6.arpa. IN DNSKEY 256 3 5 AwEAAeUUHWIG+nkRRKH6mXtrtll7CgIkqDrKCs8WN9By2OZMH5h6J3jn Q8PEKPhkb8TZOi6z2jYMNzXckzEzKPBFYytg03lBRvW1AmzmkZf3nas8 xpUU7cB1hv4xi5Ry9rnV7PZwpPtmujToOCHb3hUhXmby4DQx77byRHVV V9O/stRL and the contents of Kip6.arpa.+005+24727.private: Private-key-format: xxx slot:0 pin: id:46 label:K24727 this is different from the normal BIND behaviour and contains only the key label within the HSM and other location information. This information will be used by dnssec-signzone to instruct the HSM to sign records while ensuring the private key is never available in unencrypted form. To continue with testing dnssec-signzone: $ cp ip6.arpa.zone zonefile $ cat Kip6.arpa.+005+24727.key >> zonefile $ bin/dnssec/dnssec-signzone -P 123456 -o ip6.arpa zonefile Kip6.arpa.+005+24727 dnssec-signzone: warning: zonefile:435: using RFC1035 TTL semantics zonefile.signed "zonefile.signed" is the ZSK signed zonefile. Thats it. III. dnssec-keygen and dnssec-signzone behaviour modifications: 1. Addition of "-P PIN" for unattended key generation and signing operation using an HSM. Without it, the programs will ask for a PIN. Small mod to bin/dnssec/dnssec-keygen.c and bin/dnssec/dnssec-signzone.c to accomodate -P option. 2. The PKCS11 HSM will only be used if the environment variable PKCS11_LIBRARY_PATH is defined as it is in "hsmconfig". Otherwise, dnssec-keygen and dnssec-signzone should behave normally. Sorry about the line breaks. Ill pdf it if there is interest. Have fun, Rick -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From MiloshMoltu@bluearmadilloconsulting.com Tue Dec 04 08:47:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzY7u-0007Y8-8D for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:47:54 -0500 Received: from ppp-43-5.telesat.com.co ([66.128.43.5]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzY7s-0003x7-G0 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:47:53 -0500 Received: from PersonalDiana ([192.177.30.10] helo=PersonalDiana) by ppp-43-5.telesat.com.co ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1yZWKg-000FCY-Ng for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:48:22 -0500 Message-ID: <8289C283.2CB4777A@bluearmadilloconsulting.com> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:47:50 -0500 From: "Milosh Moltu" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: kutuhsne Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Allways wanted to have the size a black friend of yours have? http://www.orscor.com/
From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 04 11:40:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzaoW-0004qe-Ik; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:40:04 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzaoW-0004Vo-89; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:40:04 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Izag7-0009rm-6D for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:31:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Izafg-0009p4-2N for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:31:07 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB4GUp3B033895 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:30:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id lB4GUo33033894 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:30:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [217.147.82.63] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzTk1-000MEO-9s for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:07:02 +0000 Received: from [192.168.100.3] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51A1D6C35; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:06:52 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:06:50 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93lafur_Gu=C3=B0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org cc: ben@links.org, davidb@verisign.com, Sam Hartman , =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93lafur_Gu=C3=B0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= , roy@dnss.ec, Sam Weiler , Mark Townsley , Roy Arends , Alex Bligh Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Message-ID: <7DE39E495B8529CD85813C75@Ximines.local> In-Reply-To: <200711300544.lAU5iq9B090383@ogud.com> References: <200711300544.lAU5iq9B090383@ogud.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] --On 30 November 2007 00:43:49 -0500 "=C3=93lafur Gu=C3=B0mundsson /DNSEXT = chair"=20 wrote: > Please speak up if this change is of concern to you. > If no one speaks up by Dec 7'th I will tell our AD the changes are > fine. FWIW this text does NOT concern me and I think the changes are fine. Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 04 11:59:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izb7m-0004W9-Gl; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:59:58 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izb7m-0006Xu-3Z; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:59:58 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzazU-000Bzv-Gb for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:51:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [157.185.61.2] (helo=M4.sparta.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Izayt-000BwS-R5 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:51:08 +0000 Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lB4GoilU004425; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:50:44 -0600 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB4GojRp001824; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:50:45 -0600 Received: from localhost ([157.185.80.253]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:50:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:50:43 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@mint.samweiler.com To: ietf@ietf.org cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis (Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations) to BCP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2007 16:50:44.0570 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFE0C3A0:01C83695] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]); Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:50:44 -0600 (CST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This draft does not address at least one issue raised in WGLC. It also contains substantial changes made after the close of WGLC that have received too little attention from the WG. Accordingly, I continue to oppose publication of this document[1]. I suggest that the IESG refer it back to the WG and, once a new document is advanced, issue a new IETF last call. An example of an issue raised in WGLC (in August 2006) that I think should be addressed: The document continues to use IETF Consensus as an allocation metric. That term is deprecated in 2434bis and should be replaced. The editor appears to have agreed to make that change[2], and I've seen no follow-up discussion saying that shouldn't happen. And an example of one of the changes that I think has received too little review: The document allows templates to create IANA registries. Is that altogether desirable? Has the expert been given enough guidance to review such requests? I have not attempted to do an exhaustive review of the 2929bis discussion, but I suspect there are other items in the above categories also. On the positive side, I'm pleased that the document provides for permanently archived templates which can, in and of themselves, serve as adequate documentation of a typecode assignment. [1] http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg01208.html [2] http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2006/msg01410.html -- Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 04 17:34:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzgL6-00074P-Jx; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:34:04 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzgL6-0001oI-2R; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:34:04 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzgEG-000LPG-Np for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:27:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [216.82.250.131] (helo=mail128.messagelabs.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzgDe-000LK2-79 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:26:41 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-128.messagelabs.com!1196807180!24222890!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.189.100.101] Received: (qmail 14000 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 22:26:21 -0000 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (HELO motgate2.mot.com) (144.189.100.101) by server-9.tower-128.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 22:26:21 -0000 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (az33exr03.mot.com [10.64.251.233]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.12.11/Motorola) with ESMTP id lB4MQKvm029418 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from az10vts03 (az10vts03.mot.com [10.64.251.244]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/Vontu) with SMTP id lB4MQIN5012719 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:26:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from de01exm64.ds.mot.com (de01exm64.am.mot.com [10.176.8.15]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id lB4MQHXU012698 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:26:18 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis (Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations) to BCP Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:24:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3870C46029D1F945B1472F170D2D97900350C6CA@de01exm64.ds.mot.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Last Call: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis (Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations) to BCP thread-index: Acg2lhnt684bEbZtQKCejmx85fEPjAALY3Rw References: From: "Eastlake III Donald-LDE008" To: "Sam Weiler" Cc: , X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Hi Sam, It appears that, somehow, I overlooked message [2] below when I was editing the document. Thanks for catching that. I'd be happy to make the two changes agreed to: changing "who" to "whose" in one case (an error a couple of other people have noticed) and changing "IETF Consensus" to "IETF Review". I believe that other changes you suggested were found by the WG Chair not to have WG consensus. Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: Sam Weiler [mailto:weiler@tislabs.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:51 AM To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis (Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations) to BCP This draft does not address at least one issue raised in WGLC. It=20 also contains substantial changes made after the close of WGLC that=20 have received too little attention from the WG. Accordingly, I=20 continue to oppose publication of this document[1]. I suggest that=20 the IESG refer it back to the WG and, once a new document is advanced,=20 issue a new IETF last call. An example of an issue raised in WGLC (in August 2006) that I think=20 should be addressed: The document continues to use IETF Consensus as an allocation metric.=20 That term is deprecated in 2434bis and should be replaced. The editor=20 appears to have agreed to make that change[2], and I've seen no=20 follow-up discussion saying that shouldn't happen. And an example of one of the changes that I think has received too=20 little review: The document allows templates to create IANA registries. Is that=20 altogether desirable? Has the expert been given enough guidance to=20 review such requests? I have not attempted to do an exhaustive review of the 2929bis=20 discussion, but I suspect there are other items in the above=20 categories also. On the positive side, I'm pleased that the document provides for=20 permanently archived templates which can, in and of themselves, serve=20 as adequate documentation of a typecode assignment. 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1fuY5NS+zWXT1v8At6RbNtvNlHV9XLwZdSDlhHVe5oa+KhUmpGmta2p5eSBZqWKP/wCkR5QRTNse 7w8Co9OI+ZpPkFLpkMYM/edvco9MAuzeARYt413U/JdFxprauYzRJ1MeBJ9APNS1kAvykvbBm270 CS5IFV+r97VttZl1HJpF6bgF0HzP+4KUMZyBjw5vR6qVC7Z/04N7/wCGz0Ekvzef8AqSZVbU/fp2 t9p//9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C83767.8609AF80-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 05 12:53:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzyRK-0008VP-C2; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:53:42 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzyRK-00023W-0C; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:53:42 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzyJc-000Fv1-M7 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:45:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IzyJR-000Ftp-Tu for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:45:39 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lB5HirC5044516; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:44:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200712051744.lB5HirC5044516@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:44:30 -0500 To: ted@NLnetLabs.nl (Ted Lindgreen) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Cc: Sam Hartman , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200712010740.lB17eTFa022850@open.nlnetlabs.nl> References: <200712010740.lB17eTFa022850@open.nlnetlabs.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 At 12:36 01/12/2007, Ted Lindgreen wrote: >[Quoting Sam Hartman, on Nov 30, 17:34, in "Re: NSEC3, version 1 ..."] > > > However, since there are objections, I assume the chairs will also > > call for support;silence in the presence of objections is not rough > > consensus. > >I share Sam's concern, I also think that silence does not suffice >to go forward. We have IMHO a consensus on the document, what I need to know from the working group member is if this change does affect their understanding and expectations of the protocol. This is a form of consensus call and should be just fine as the explicit way to judge the consensuses is expressed. >NSEC3 is a very complicated protocol extention. Few people, even >in this WG, really understand the issues at hand, those who do, >should speak up and guarantee the rest of us that all issues are >now solved, This is not a fair request without you saying what you mean by "guarantee the rest of us that all issues are now solved". Is this a guarantee that the expert has to pay penalty if she/he is wrong? Did you mean to say "assert that he/she knows of NO issues with the current specification". Olafur -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From FreidaloquacityPereira@chinadigitaltimes.net Wed Dec 05 13:09:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzygK-0005Ti-Uw; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:09:13 -0500 Received: from [190.33.245.10] (helo=slave2.domain) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzygK-0007Un-H8; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:09:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host06930716.chinadigitaltimes.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id sRn2N4je70.658048.enq.SLZ.3866243601727 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:09:10 +0600 Message-ID: <2f35001c83772$56f8bb40$6601a8c0@slave2> From: "Enid Means" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

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------=_NextPart_000_2F34C_01C83772.56F8BB40-- From DonalditoWilson@math.com Wed Dec 05 13:42:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzC8-0003lY-5i; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:42:04 -0500 Received: from [190.42.53.234] (helo=cesar) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzC7-0001k9-QT; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:42:04 -0500 Received: from wick by math.com with SMTP id nZVtIjeetE for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:41:55 +0500 From: "Mark Moore" To: Subject: Multi-hand and single-hand blackjack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Visit and start seeing the dollars coming. If you're in the US or anywhere else, join your new casino paradise. Get $999 you download our casino. Huge progressive jackpots, slots, multi-hand, and single-hand blackjack. http://pritanari.cn/ From WillieacquiesceRoss@lohud.com Wed Dec 05 14:19:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzmQ-0001UR-70; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:19:34 -0500 Received: from 217.pool80-102-135.dynamic.orange.es ([80.102.135.217] helo=gemma1.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzmP-00050X-9F; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:19:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host46803921.lohud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id cK45UZJk76.445234.eT4.DiV.1634928708875 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:19:09 -0100 Message-ID: <229df01c83773$bc663240$8000a8c0@Gemma1> From: "Nicholas Brooks" To: Cc: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

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------=_NextPart_000_229DB_01C83773.BC663240-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 05 15:18:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00hr-0005z4-IO; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:18:55 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00hr-0006hp-7H; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:18:55 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J00Z4-0003Bn-6m for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:09:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J00Yj-00038S-LC for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:09:44 +0000 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lB5K8tWL079775; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:08:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ted@open.nlnetlabs.nl) Received: (from ted@localhost) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lB5K8sUb079774; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:08:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ted) Message-Id: <200712052008.lB5K8sUb079774@open.nlnetlabs.nl> From: ted@NLnetLabs.nl (Ted Lindgreen) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:08:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair's message as of Dec 5, 19:19" X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair , ted@NLnetLabs.nl (Ted Lindgreen) Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Cc: Sam Hartman , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:08:55 +0100 (CET) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c [Quoting =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair, on Dec 5, 19:19, in "Re: NSEC3, version 1 ..."] > This is not a fair request without you saying what you mean by > "guarantee the rest of us that all issues are now solved". > Is this a guarantee that the expert has to pay penalty if she/he is wrong? > Did you mean to say "assert that he/she knows of NO issues with the > current specification". I meant the latter, -- ted -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From ErikyearnLittle@metacafe.com Wed Dec 05 15:31:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00th-0004LQ-3w; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:31:09 -0500 Received: from 74-140-187-168.dhcp.insightbb.com ([74.140.187.168] helo=your18de68d643.belkin) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00tg-00046d-Rr; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:31:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host91066389.metacafe.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 8mygB6SA71.271167.L0D.JmB.5750352597508 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:30:49 +0500 Message-ID: <5e580c01c8377d$bfa4fe00$0302a8c0@YOUR18DE68D643> From: "Jared Fuller" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
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Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_5E5808_01C8377D.BFA4FE00-- From TedcontusionReid@softwaretipsandtricks.com Wed Dec 05 15:36:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00zG-0005VG-84; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:36:54 -0500 Received: from cm52134.red.mundo-r.com ([213.60.52.134] helo=patri321cfb6ea.mundor.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J00z6-0004ek-5c; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:36:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host85178243.softwaretipsandtricks.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id IQDuTHCC13.626097.nel.lIr.4314186714823 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:36:12 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Javier Garrett" To: , =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time.

------=_NextPart_000_BA15_01C8377E.863DC060-- From DarylfreeportCraig@xoops.org Wed Dec 05 16:04:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01QL-0000St-93; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:04:53 -0500 Received: from [218.153.119.49] (helo=4) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J01QK-0007Of-RE; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:04:53 -0500 Received: from gunflint by xoops.org with SMTP id URJd1w4tic for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:04:40 -0900 From: "Seth Lucas" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J028K-0001x1-Gj; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:50:20 -0500 Received: from [189.162.102.105] (helo=ventas2.gateway.2wire.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J028J-0003gN-Rr; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:50:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host90404733.mathleague.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 4fqFtelx86.853744.gNa.HUn.0217659238897 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:48:20 +0600 Message-ID: <2d7f101c83788$d3135a80$280110ac@ventas2> From: "Felipe Manning" To: Cc: , =20

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When you are young and stressed = up…
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------=_NextPart_000_2D7ED_01C83788.D3135A80-- From StephanyapMarquez@lohud.com Wed Dec 05 17:58:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03C7-0000rG-Jr; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:58:19 -0500 Received: from pc-238-83-47-190.cm.vtr.net ([190.47.83.238] helo=home) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03C6-0002bx-T6; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:58:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host91868381.lohud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id TQy0duEJ95.411543.xf2.GnS.3938794959166 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:11 +0400 Message-ID: From: "Reynaldo Hodge" To: Subject: Hi Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:11 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_B568_01C83792.54B6FB10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_B568_01C83792.54B6FB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_B568_01C83792.54B6FB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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When you are young and stressed = up…
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------=_NextPart_000_B568_01C83792.54B6FB10-- From NolanspiegelOlsen@annapolischamber.com Wed Dec 05 18:41:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03s9-00041x-5I; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:41:45 -0500 Received: from pool-72-68-178-173.nycmny.east.verizon.net ([72.68.178.173] helo=yu6c475ce38ce0.myhome.westell.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J03s8-0007Ie-RN; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:41:45 -0500 Received: from brookside by annapolischamber.com with SMTP id 5Q5eagxlgr for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:39:40 +0500 From: "Nolan Horn" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Pe-0003vH-LT; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:16:22 -0500 Received: from [201.230.129.136] (helo=corporativo3) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J04Pe-0001xc-76; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:16:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host14025879.xoops.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id PbDOg0RK54.599891.sey.INr.5183329737481 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:15:46 -0100 Message-ID: <2259401c83699$58c74650$0507a8c0@CORPORATIVO3> From: "Scot Ellison" To: Subject: Your order approved Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:15:46 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_22590_01C83699.58C74650" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_22590_01C83699.58C74650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_22590_01C83699.58C74650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

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180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_22590_01C83699.58C74650-- From DanialcopperfieldNolan@davidsuzuki.org Wed Dec 05 19:59:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J055k-0002wM-Ma; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:59:52 -0500 Received: from [200.74.144.236] (helo=mjimenez.fundacion.loc) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J055k-0005jT-Bc; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:59:52 -0500 Received: from schultz by davidsuzuki.org with SMTP id BF8suTT9ox for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:59:45 +0500 From: "Joan Joyce" To: , Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05xS-0006qp-1Y; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:55:22 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J05xR-0005Cl-Jk; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:55:22 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J05po-000D55-9F for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:47:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J05pd-000D4R-HP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:47:22 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.23,257,1194220800"; d="scan'208";a="11406934" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2007 01:47:15 +0000 In-Reply-To: <200712010740.lB17eTFa022850@open.nlnetlabs.nl> To: ted@NLnetLabs.nl (Ted Lindgreen) Cc: Sam Hartman , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ogud@ogud.com Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.3 September 26, 2007 Message-ID: From: roy@nominet.org.uk Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:47:12 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 06/12/2007 01:47:14 AM, Serialize complete at 06/12/2007 01:47:14 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Ted Lindgreen wrote on 11/30/2007 11:40:29 PM: > [Quoting Sam Hartman, on Nov 30, 17:34, in "Re: NSEC3, version 1 ..."] > > > However, since there are objections, I assume the chairs will also > > call for support;silence in the presence of objections is not rough > > consensus. > > I share Sam's concern, I also think that silence does not suffice > to go forward. > > NSEC3 is a very complicated protocol extention. Few people, even > in this WG, really understand the issues at hand, those who do, > should speak up and guarantee the rest of us that all issues are > now solved, I am confident all issues are now solved. Nothing has changed in the normative text part of the draft for a while now (not counting the occasional typo). The text that changed was section 12.1.3, which had a 4 step gradual transition process for zone administrators to gradually introduce NSEC3 records with a new hash algorithm. Without a gradual introduction of NSEC3 records, an administrator needs to change the hash algorithm and the signature algorithm in a single SOA serial version increase (i.e. an instant transition for lack of better terminology). That might be a bit problematic for highly volatile or very large zones though I do not expect that this transition would happen frequently. It is possible to have a gradual transition process, other than the one we came up with. That one had a requirement that older hash algorithms needed to be supported. That requirement was, as we were told, not okay. Since there is no hash algorithm to transition to at this point, and does not require a change to normative text (i.e. NSEC3 capable implementations do not have to be changed) we accepted Sam Weiler's alternative text to require a gradual transition scheme to be defined when a new NSEC3 hash algorithm is defined. I hope this helps. Regards, Roy Arends -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From JamaalintransitiveBaird@softwaretipsandtricks.com Wed Dec 05 21:16:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06Ho-0002RF-Pk; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:16:24 -0500 Received: from adsl-238-229.eunet.yu ([213.198.238.229] helo=pri10.ristic.local) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06Ho-0003gS-CN; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:16:24 -0500 Received: from dare by softwaretipsandtricks.com with SMTP id Euswk6OVsz for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:16:39 -0100 From: "Milford Wynn" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06z5-0000tf-3O; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:01:07 -0500 Received: from c-69-249-154-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net ([69.249.154.156] helo=purchasing.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J06z4-0007Eo-Qf; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:01:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host22918596.chinadigitaltimes.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 1WfLFDuZ70.476080.Btx.plp.1220067663967 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:00:51 +0500 Message-ID: <8864d801c837b4$3df4e640$6901a8c0@Purchasing> From: "Karen Arroyo" To: Subject: Your family Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:00:51 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_8864D4_01C837B4.3DF4E640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_8864D4_01C837B4.3DF4E640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_8864D4_01C837B4.3DF4E640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
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60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_8864D4_01C837B4.3DF4E640-- From DonnawendyRankin@annapolischorale.org Wed Dec 05 22:07:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J075V-0003qM-A0; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:07:45 -0500 Received: from pool-71-245-145-119.albyny.east.verizon.net ([71.245.145.119] helo=matt) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J075U-0007wM-T7; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:07:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host73058639.annapolischorale.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id Q0fC53yo21.683303.AgC.R7q.2601423892684 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:09:29 +0500 Message-ID: <455a201c837b5$72a67920$6501a8c0@Matt> From: "Jennifer Shea" To: Cc: , =20

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Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

Learn
More
Now
10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
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------=_NextPart_000_4559E_01C837B5.72A67920-- From JuliadraftsmanBlanton@davidsuzuki.org Wed Dec 05 22:44:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07fX-0007Cf-3k; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:44:59 -0500 Received: from cpe-69-201-131-211.nyc.res.rr.com ([69.201.131.211] helo=nonejchsgs5moh.nyc.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J07fW-0001oO-S2; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:44:59 -0500 Received: from brushy by davidsuzuki.org with SMTP id uVuteGckNk for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:44:47 +0500 From: "Lillian Lutz" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08W8-00032q-59; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:39:20 -0500 Received: from [190.67.174.34] (helo=emirac0babc1a1) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J08W7-0004oF-No; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:39:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host81712999.brownsvilleherald.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 5fNMiCln16.990933.CHP.HVq.7487061833213 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:39:03 +0500 Message-ID: <24fd301c837c1$f3d46d20$1701a8c0@emirac0babc1a1> From: "Jeanne Britton" To: Subject: Confirmation link Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:39:03 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_24FCF_01C837C1.F3D46D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3971661e40967acfc35f708dd5f33760 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_24FCF_01C837C1.F3D46D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Cialis Soft Tabs would help you to = make better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. = Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in = 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this = medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours! Package Quantity Price in your local drugstore* Our price LearnMoreNow 10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49 30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50 60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02 90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40 180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46 When you are young and stressed up… When you are aged and never give up… Cialis Soft Tabs gives you confidence in any chance, every time. ------=_NextPart_000_24FCF_01C837C1.F3D46D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20

Even if you have no erection problems = Cialis Soft=20 Tabs would help you to make better sex more often and to bring=20 unimaginable plesure to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue = and get=20 ready for action in 30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of = men after=20 taking this medication were able to have perfect erection during = 24=20 hours!

Package Quantity Price in your = local drugstore* Our = price

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More
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10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
30 tabs 60 doses $299.95 $88.50
60 tabs 120 doses $449.95 $141.02
90 tabs 180 doses $769.95 $176.40
180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

When you are young and stressed = up…
When you are aged and never give up…
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------=_NextPart_000_22088_01C83962.809732F0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Dec 08 02:20:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0tzA-0001U3-OT; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:20:28 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J0tzA-0004Vu-74; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 02:20:28 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J0tmU-0003bh-5n for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:07:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [81.91.161.3] (helo=smtp.denic.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J0tmR-0003bM-E2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:07:20 +0000 Received: from mail-int1.denic.de (mail-int1.denic.de [192.168.0.45]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 1J0tmP-0000Ls-4D; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:07:17 +0100 Received: from localhost by mail-int1.denic.de with local id 1J0tmO-0007fA-00; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:07:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:07:16 +0100 From: Peter Koch To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: NSEC3, version 13 Message-ID: <20071208070716.GB11434@denics7.denic.de> References: <200711300544.lAU5iq9B090383@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 05:46:15PM +0100, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: > So the change is that the basic-4 steps procedure was removed and > replaced with text that amounts to "We'll solve this when we get to > this". I agree with the changes proposed for -13 in Roy's message dated 30 NOV. > problem that starts with the premisses in Sam Weiler's observation: > "but we aren't (as far as I can tell) requiring that an NSEC3- > SHA256-capable resolver also support NSEC3-SHA1" This is one underlying assumption, although it doesn't _have_ to be that way. The new algorithm could as well mean "SHA256 or SHA1". Theoretically this would allow a downgrade attack, but that could be mitigated by doing a double transition (where the intermediate state might even be infinitesimally small): NSEC3-SHA1 -> NSEC3-SHAng-or-SHA1 -> NSEC3-SHAng Alternatively, for the transition phase, both hash algs could be signalled in the DS RR. Either of these could again have corner cases, but locating and arguing them is not my point. I am confident that the WG as a whole understands signalling and rollover well enough to address the issue once it becomes necessary. Hash algorithm is expected to be a _rare_ event, as opposed to key rollover, so extra manual intervention or timing constraints appear acceptable IMHO. The exact scheme will also depend on the operational environment at that future date and thus could be dealt with later better anyway. > Anyhow, as far as I am concerned, this is a corner case that can be > dealt with later. The current text does sufficiently flag this is an > issue and I am confident there is at least one blunt way to solve the > issue. Seconded. 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Those that do NSEC3 and wish to do any type of transition will be competent enough to know how best for their zone to transition, which would likely be different from anything written in a static RFC. It is most likely to be a rare event (as Peter Koch mentioned in a previous email) - I can really only think of 1 (maybe 2) hash algorithms beyond SHA-1 that may be used in the future (SHA-256 for example). I think the text is acceptable as it stands, and would like the -13 version to progress. Scott Roy Arends wrote: > Dear WG, > > This is the latest version of the NSEC3 draft, version 13. > > Since the submission deadline for IETF 71 has passed, I've put the latest > version online: > > http://www.nsec3.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/attachment/wiki/WikiStart/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-13.txt?format=raw > > This version addresses the NSEC3 hash algorithm agility issue. > > Changes are: > > 1) Section 12.1.3 has been replaced with the following text: > > 12.1.3. Transitioning to a New Hash Algorithm > > Although the NSEC3 and NSEC3PARAM RR formats include a hash algorithm > parameter, this document does not define a particular mechanism for > safely transitioning from one NSEC3 hash algorithm to another. When > specifying a new hash algorithm for use with NSEC3, a transition > mechanism MUST also be defined. It is possible that the only > practical and palatable transition mechanisms may require an > intermediate transition to an insecure state, or to a state that uses > NSEC records instead of NSEC3. > > 2) an addition to the IANA considerations: > > 11. IANA Considerations > > Although the NSEC3 and NSEC3PARAM RR formats include a hash algorithm > parameter, this document does not define a particular mechanism for > safely transitioning from one NSEC3 hash algorithm to another. When > specifying a new hash algorithm for use with NSEC3, a transition > mechanism MUST also be defined. > > 3) One typo was fixed, and two of the authors' addresses have changed > > Regards, > > Roy Arends > Nominet UK > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: > -- ---------------------------------------- Scott Rose Computer Scientist NIST ph: +1 301-975-8439 scott.rose@nist.gov http://www-x.antd.nist.gov/dnssec http://www.dnsops.gov/ ----------------------------------------- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From sanjayedgar2@four-soft.com Mon Dec 10 20:49:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1uFC-000470-0B for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:49:10 -0500 Received: from [201.72.207.84] (helo=201.72.207.84) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1uFB-0006j1-Aw for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:49:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c83b97$0117b618$777866ad@nykmprr> From: "edan choong-h" To: "Neal Darby" Subject: perfectly crafted exclusive watches rolex Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:01:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://zipsialrep.com/ From BrigittehormoneHemphill@replace-eu.com Tue Dec 11 02:50:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1zsx-0004Vj-8I for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:50:35 -0500 Received: from host98-57-static.75-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([81.75.57.98] helo=bladetrinity) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J1zsw-00064A-OS for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:50:35 -0500 Received: from jawbone by replace-eu.com with SMTP id xTk23imNf1 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:50:10 -0100 From: "Hollie Zapata" To: Subject: Relax and have fun with roulette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Our casino is for you and everyone else who likes to win! 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This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : DNSSEC Hashed Authenticated Denial of Existence Author(s) : B. Laurie, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-13.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2007-12-11 The Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC) introduced the NSEC resource record (RR) for authenticated denial of existence. This document introduces an alternative resource record, NSEC3, which similarly provides authenticated denial of existence. However, it also provides measures against zone enumeration and permits gradual expansion of delegation-centric zones. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-13.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Use of SHA-2 algorithms with RSA in DNSKEY and RRSIG Resource Records for DNSSEC Author(s) : J. Jansen Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2007-12-11 This document describes how to produce RSA/SHA-256 and RSA/SHA-512 DNSKEY and RRSIG resource records for use in the Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC, RFC4033, RFC4034, and RFC4035). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-11090920.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-12-11090920.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 11:11:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27hd-0006UH-DA; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:11:25 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J27hd-0003Sr-2g; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:11:25 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J27aa-0008AM-Pp for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:04:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J27aY-00089r-7Q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:04:07 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,152,1196640000"; d="scan'208";a="11523691" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 11 Dec 2007 16:04:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.3 September 26, 2007 Message-ID: From: roy@nominet.org.uk Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:04:01 +0000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 11/12/2007 04:04:02 PM, Serialize complete at 11/12/2007 04:04:02 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. > > > Title : Use of SHA-2 algorithms with RSA in DNSKEY and > RRSIG Resource Records for DNSSEC > Author(s) : J. Jansen > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2007-12-11 > > This document describes how to produce RSA/SHA-256 and RSA/SHA-512 > DNSKEY and RRSIG resource records for use in the Domain Name System > Security Extensions (DNSSEC, RFC4033, RFC4034, and RFC4035). I think it is a good idea to add that the use of SHA-2 algorithms over SHA-1 does not have an impact on the RRSIG length. 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The working group is done with NSEC3. Mark, please forward this version to the RFC-editor, for publication. Olafur -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 12:32:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28yH-0002Tw-Ai; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:32:41 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28yG-0005Tg-Nh; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:32:41 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J28rB-000F9k-5s for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:25:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_MID, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [76.96.62.17] (helo=QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J28qg-000F58-75 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from OMTA13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.52]) by QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id PSL41Y00C17dt5G050Jb00; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:24:49 +0000 Received: from mikespersonal.comcast.net ([69.140.151.110]) by OMTA13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id PVQo1Y0032P9w053Z00000; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:24:49 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=M0gaenzEbNOAMrvql9MA:9 a=DsYTqLDWhtZ8a-dPvoEA:7 a=BoqC3me9sErSyqHhbA5YB_-aAJwA:4 a=oltX7JrCFroA:10 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:24:55 -0500 To: roy@nominet.org.uk,namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Michael StJohns Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 A couple of comments and questions: Since 3110 permits RSA keys as short as 512 bits you should probably note that SHA512 can't be used with keys of that length due to padding considerations. Per PKCS1 the hash size has to be at least 11 octets shorter than the key length. The ID lists allocations for SHA256-NSEC3 etc - but there's no body text related to NSEC3. This is probably not the right place to list those allocations. Given that NSEC3 ID still isn't closed (or may only have closed today) it may be more appropriate to list the allocations there. This document doesn't specify WHICH signature mechanism of the two listed in PKCS1 should be used - from context its PKCS 1 v1.5, but should be stated explicitly. There's some low level mumbling in the security community to deprecate 1.5 padding and the original signature mechanism and replace them with RSASSA-PSS and RSA-OAEP. There should at least be a discussion about this set of choices and why DNSSEC is sticking with RSASSA-PKCS1-v1_5. Following the item above on key length, there needs to either be a discussion of the appropriate hash algorithm to use with which key lengths or a pointer a document which describes this (e.g. NIST 800-57) or preferably both. At 11:04 12/11/2007, roy@nominet.org.uk wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >> This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the >IETF. >> >> >> Title : Use of SHA-2 algorithms with RSA in DNSKEY and >> RRSIG Resource Records for DNSSEC >> Author(s) : J. Jansen >> Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt >> Pages : 8 >> Date : 2007-12-11 >> >> This document describes how to produce RSA/SHA-256 and RSA/SHA-512 >> DNSKEY and RRSIG resource records for use in the Domain Name System >> Security Extensions (DNSSEC, RFC4033, RFC4034, and RFC4035). > >I think it is a good idea to add that the use of SHA-2 algorithms over >SHA-1 does not have an impact on the RRSIG length. > >Roy > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 12:34:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28zk-0005IX-1v; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:34:12 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J28zi-0005VP-Mk; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:34:12 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J28v1-000FYF-31 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:29:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J28uV-000FVW-Uy for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:29:03 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBBHSU5j038911; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:28:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200712111627.lBBGR7Z8038162@ogud.com> References: <200712111627.lBBGR7Z8038162@ogud.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:28:29 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: NSEC-13 conclusion Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, townsley@cisco.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 I have to ask, now that I have time to read the=20 document, is there a reason opt-out is optional=20 wrt to NSEC3? Yes I know I'm late in asking, but as things wind=20 down I get to catch up on my reading pile. The reason I'm asking this question is that I am=20 concerned (meaning unable to come up with a=20 concrete reason) about altering parameters in an=20 operating zone. If there are few NSEC3 records=20 to update, I think it is okay. But if there are=20 millions of records, I am not so sure. Did we consider adding text to encourage liberal use of opt-out? At 11:26 -0500 12/11/07, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT chair wrote: >Namedroppers, >There seems to be consensus that the change is acceptable. >The working group is done with NSEC3. > >Mark, >please forward this version to the RFC-editor, for publication. > > Olafur > > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. 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------=_NextPart_000_233C93_01C83C39.8337E520-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 18:23:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ES6-0007cW-7D; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:23:50 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2ES4-0005e5-Km; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:23:50 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2EHb-000IgO-IV for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:12:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.184.167] (helo=mx.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2EH4-000IdL-Sk for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:12:44 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DD611401C for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0D0E6074 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBBNC5Vc069080; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200712112312.lBBNC5Vc069080@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Edward Lewis Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, townsley@cisco.com From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: NSEC-13 conclusion In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:28:29 CDT." Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:05 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -3.7 (---) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 > I have to ask, now that I have time to read the=20 > document, is there a reason opt-out is optional=20 > wrt to NSEC3? You can still want to assert the non existance of a delegation. Note: the decision of whether to include opt-out or not in NSEC3 has never been decided. We are still in limbo state on this question. The most recent version of this WG's "Requirements related to DNSSEC Signed Proof of Non-Existence" document, dated June 2006, contains the text: Editor comments: We believe that [opt-out] is a medium-priority goal or desire and should be considered. Because of the similarity of this item to the older "opt-in signed zones" proposal, we recognize that consideration of this item may bog down the DNSEXT WG and that a decision must be made by the WG chairs. [Section 8, "Group 5"] If the audio records were complete I'm pretty sure I could also find the decision to defer deciding whether NSEC3 should be part of DNSSEC or not. Mark > Yes I know I'm late in asking, but as things wind=20 > down I get to catch up on my reading pile. > > The reason I'm asking this question is that I am=20 > concerned (meaning unable to come up with a=20 > concrete reason) about altering parameters in an=20 > operating zone. If there are few NSEC3 records=20 > to update, I think it is okay. But if there are=20 > millions of records, I am not so sure. > > Did we consider adding text to encourage liberal use of opt-out? > > At 11:26 -0500 12/11/07, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT > chair wrote: > >Namedroppers, > >There seems to be consensus that the change is acceptable. > >The working group is done with NSEC3. > > > >Mark, > >please forward this version to the RFC-editor, for publication. > > > > Olafur > > > > > >-- > >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > >archive: > > -- > -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= > -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- > Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > Think glocally. Act confused. > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 20:35:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GVm-0003r6-FU; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:35:46 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2GVl-0000Tj-K2; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:35:46 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2GNu-00046W-8Y for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:27:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [199.212.90.4] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2GNM-00041z-F1 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:27:23 +0000 Received: from [199.212.90.26] (helo=yxu1b26.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2GNH-000NKt-ON for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:27:03 +0000 Message-Id: From: Joe Abley To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Subject: Fwd: I-D Action:draft-kaplan-enum-source-uri-00.txt Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:26:59 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Hi all, This (below) seems quite incompatible with the concept of a coherent namespace, which makes me wonder what benefit a signed E164.ARPA domain will have (viz. ). But perhaps I'm missing something? Joe Begin forwarded message: > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Date: 11 December 2007 17:20:02 GMT-05:00 > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action:draft-kaplan-enum-source-uri-00.txt > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > Title : DNS Extension for ENUM Source-URI > Author(s) : H. Kaplan, et al. > Filename : draft-kaplan-enum-source-uri-00.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2007-12-11 > > This document defines a specific DNS extension, based on the EDNS0 > OPT RR, for an ENUM query to include the source URI which caused the > ENUM request. This is useful, for example, to specify the > originating SIP or TEL URI from a SIP request which triggered the > ENUM query, so the ENUM server can provide a different response. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kaplan-enum-source- > uri-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-kaplan-enum-source-uri-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-kaplan-enum-source-uri-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-ID: <2007-12-11171322.I-D\@ietf.org> > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From josssacha@pbxsoftware.com Tue Dec 11 22:25:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2IDa-0004yM-CN for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:25:06 -0500 Received: from [77.48.172.10] (helo=77.48.172.10) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2IDZ-00020M-NR for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:25:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c83c6e$06ffeb91$8f02f8b9@nvnya> From: "gere tzi-dar" To: "Clinton Fry" Subject: perfectly crafted exclusive watches rolex Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:37:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://ziprockrep.net/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 00:14:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Jvf-0000wz-Dy; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:14:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2Jvd-0005ad-TJ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:14:43 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2Jnl-000Oln-RQ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:06:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2JnE-000Oic-0g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:06:18 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBC54JkR042612; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:04:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200712112312.lBBNC5Vc069080@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200712112312.lBBNC5Vc069080@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:04:16 -0500 To: Mark Andrews From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: NSEC-13 conclusion Cc: Edward Lewis , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, townsley@cisco.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 At 10:12 +1100 12/12/07, Mark Andrews wrote: >You can still want to assert the non existance of a delegation. If you want to do that, just put an TXT record there saying "Na na nana nah" and sign it. (DNSSEC isn't about asserting anything, it's about being able to verify something.) >Note: the decision of whether to include opt-out or not in NSEC3 >has never been decided. We are still in limbo state on this question. Well, then let's leave the doc as it is and be done with it. >The most recent version of this WG's "Requirements related to DNSSEC >Signed Proof of Non-Existence" document, dated June 2006, contains >the text: If it never made it to consensus, then I wouldn't worry about it. (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsext-signed-nonexistence-requirements-03) > Editor comments: We believe that [opt-out] is a medium-priority goal or > desire and should be considered. Because of the similarity of this > item to the older "opt-in signed zones" proposal, we recognize that > consideration of this item may bog down the DNSEXT WG and that a > decision must be made by the WG chairs. [Section 8, "Group 5"] > >If the audio records were complete I'm pretty sure I could also find the >decision to defer deciding whether NSEC3 should be part of DNSSEC or >not. I don't see the point of worrying about this, it seems like the WG has already agreed to nsec3-13. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 03:59:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2NRU-00058P-5V; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:59:48 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2NRS-0000r5-Ew; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:59:48 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2NLK-000IF7-R5 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:53:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.154.224.43] (helo=sol.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2NKx-000IDZ-3x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:53:15 +0000 Received: from jelte (vhe-520087.sshn.net [195.169.221.157]) by sol.nlnetlabs.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B4218A737 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:53:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.9.10] (unknown [192.168.9.10]) by jelte (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D0ECFE2B for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:54:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <475F94DC.5030408@NLnetLabs.nl> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:59:24 +0200 From: Jelte Jansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks, very good points. Michael StJohns wrote: > A couple of comments and questions: > > Since 3110 permits RSA keys as short as 512 bits you should probably note that SHA512 can't be used with keys of that length due to padding considerations. Per PKCS1 the hash size has to be at least 11 octets shorter than the key length. > Yes, a discussion about lengths (both of keys and signatures) is missing and will be added. Also, I structured the document so that if we do decide on adding or removing specific algorithms from the SHA-2 document, it's easily done. Although I think that with 256 and 512 we have an acceptable middle ground between needs and combination-complexity. > The ID lists allocations for SHA256-NSEC3 etc - but there's no body text related to NSEC3. This is probably not the right place to list those allocations. Given that NSEC3 ID still isn't closed (or may only have closed today) it may be more appropriate to list the allocations there. > It kind of depends which document gets finalized first. It seems that NSEC3 will be finalized before this document, in which case I think this (sha2) document will be the right place. There should indeed be some actual text and a reference in that case. If this document would seem to be done first, I'll remove the NSEC3 references altogether. > This document doesn't specify WHICH signature mechanism of the two listed in PKCS1 should be used - from context its PKCS 1 v1.5, but should be stated explicitly. > Yes, thanks. > There's some low level mumbling in the security community to deprecate 1.5 padding and the original signature mechanism and replace them with RSASSA-PSS and RSA-OAEP. There should at least be a discussion about this set of choices and why DNSSEC is sticking with RSASSA-PKCS1-v1_5. > Hmm, I kind of went for a least-surprise and least-fuss-for-users-of-crypto-libraries method, with the most widely used padding mechanism, which obviously I think is this one. If I'm wrong, or if there are strong hints that they will indeed be deprecated, using another method is probably the way to go. Otherwise I'll gladly add some text to explain the choice. > Following the item above on key length, there needs to either be a discussion of the appropriate hash algorithm to use with which key lengths or a pointer a document which describes this (e.g. NIST 800-57) or preferably both. > Ok Jelte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHX5Tc4nZCKsdOncURAknaAKCyGulawnZE+F0BV1IjVkuX4npsywCfcdWd gdOuyktmcLs7e3DilGaGbDs= =SEeM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 04:58:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2OMk-0002ay-E4; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:58:58 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2OMk-0002wV-1K; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:58:58 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2OF7-000OB3-Tf for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:51:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2OF5-000OAP-5e for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:51:04 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,156,1196640000"; d="scan'208";a="11536833" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 09:51:00 +0000 In-Reply-To: To: Edward Lewis Cc: Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= , townsley@cisco.com Subject: Re: NSEC-13 conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.3 September 26, 2007 Message-ID: From: roy@nominet.org.uk Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:50:57 +0000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 12/12/2007 09:50:58 AM, Serialize complete at 12/12/2007 09:50:58 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Edward Lewis wrote on 12/12/2007 05:04:16 AM: > At 10:12 +1100 12/12/07, Mark Andrews wrote: > > >You can still want to assert the non existance of a delegation. > > If you want to do that, just put an TXT record there saying "Na na > nana nah" and sign it. (DNSSEC isn't about asserting anything, it's > about being able to verify something.) We have considered that. That would require either an additional query for that text record, or that text record, including its signature present in every (nsec3) referral. Since we need to signal a binary state (a single bit), we thought it is efficient to signal that binary state in the NSEC3 record. This would save the additional query, or save space (of that text record and the signature) in a referral where the cost of packet real estate is already significant. Especially when it is for a single bit. This is the rationale for the 'how' though, not the 'why'. The rationale for the 'why is it optional' is that anti-enumeration and opt-out are two different concepts that is signalled in one record (the nsec3 record). The requirement for anti-enumeration does not imply a requirement for opt-out, hence it is optional. 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------=_NextPart_000_2D92F_01C83CAB.F75A65F0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 06:06:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2PQC-0007C9-Vf; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:06:36 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2PQC-0004W0-Em; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:06:36 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2PIt-0004ai-L4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:59:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2PIO-0004Y5-No for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:48 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.24,156,1196640000"; d="scan'208";a="11537796" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 10:58:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: <200712112312.lBBNC5Vc069080@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Mark Andrews Cc: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT_chair?= , townsley@cisco.com Subject: Re: NSEC-13 conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.3 September 26, 2007 Message-ID: From: roy@nominet.org.uk Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:29 +0000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 12/12/2007 10:58:30 AM, Serialize complete at 12/12/2007 10:58:30 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Mark Andrews wrote on 12/11/2007 11:12:05 PM: > > I have to ask, now that I have time to read the=20 > > document, is there a reason opt-out is optional=20 > > wrt to NSEC3? > > You can still want to assert the non existance of a delegation. > > Note: the decision of whether to include opt-out or not in NSEC3 > has never been decided. We are still in limbo state on this question. > > The most recent version of this WG's "Requirements related to DNSSEC > Signed Proof of Non-Existence" document, dated June 2006, contains > the text: > > Editor comments: We believe that [opt-out] is a medium-priority goal or > desire and should be considered. Because of the similarity of this > item to the older "opt-in signed zones" proposal, we recognize that > consideration of this item may bog down the DNSEXT WG and that a > decision must be made by the WG chairs. [Section 8, "Group 5"] > > If the audio records were complete I'm pretty sure I could also find the > decision to defer deciding whether NSEC3 should be part of DNSSEC or > not. Mark, I think we did due diligence on that. On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Olaf Kolkman, the then WG co-chair issued a WGLC on NSEC3: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00027.html On Mon, 5 Feb 2007, during the last call, there was one comment on Opt-Out, from Olaf Kolkman, acting without hats, stating the following: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00086.html In the past I have repeatedly said that I am not happy with the way that OPT-OUT (then called OPT-IN) changes the security model away from the concept that a "zone" is secure. I continue to not be happy but consent with the argument that such feature is needed in specific operational environments. On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Olaf Kolkman, acting as co-chair, summarized the WGLC as follows on this specific point: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00132.html The opt-in feature used to be contentious but it is clear that the consensus in the working group has shifted over the years. In the presence of his own concern, and absence of other statements on nonsupport for OPT-OUT, the co-chair declared consensus. I do not know of any decision to defer deciding whether NSEC3 should be part of DNSSEC or not. I do not know of any decision to defer deciding whether opt-out should be part of NSEC3. I've found no evidence on the mailing list about a decision to defer either. NSEC3, including opt-out was adopted as a working group item. Note that the quoted text in the requirements document is not contentious here. Since 'consideration of this item' [opt-out] did not bog down the DNSEXT WG, and that the WG chairs _have_ made a decision (see wglc summary above), I do not see why 'we are in still in limbo state on this question'. Regards, Roy Arends -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 08:28:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2RdQ-00054a-O8; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:28:24 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J2RdO-0001gr-3y; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:28:24 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2RWQ-000JFz-Q8 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:21:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [129.6.16.226] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J2RVz-000JEA-U3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:20:57 +0000 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (emailha2.nist.gov [129.6.16.198]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBCDKatD002521 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:20:36 -0500 Received: from 619893L ([129.6.220.160]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id lBCDL9Lp019773 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:21:10 -0500 From: "Scott Rose" To: Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-rsasha256-02.txt Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:20:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <475F94DC.5030408@NLnetLabs.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Importance: Normal X-NIST-MailScanner-Information: X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Jelte Jansen> > > Thanks, very good points. > > Michael StJohns wrote: > > A couple of comments and questions: > > > > Since 3110 permits RSA keys as short as 512 bits you should > probably note that SHA512 can't be used with keys of that length > due to padding considerations. Per PKCS1 the hash size has to be > at least 11 octets shorter than the key length. > > > > Yes, a discussion about lengths (both of keys and signatures) is missing > and will be added. Also, I structured the document so that if we do > decide on adding or removing specific algorithms from the SHA-2 > document, it's easily done. Although I think that with 256 and 512 we > have an acceptable middle ground between needs and combination-complexity. > > > The ID lists allocations for SHA256-NSEC3 etc - but there's no > body text related to NSEC3. This is probably not the right place > to list those allocations. Given that NSEC3 ID still isn't > closed (or may only have closed today) it may be more appropriate > to list the allocations there. > > > > It kind of depends which document gets finalized first. It seems that > NSEC3 will be finalized before this document, in which case I think this > (sha2) document will be the right place. There should indeed be some > actual text and a reference in that case. If this document would seem to > be done first, I'll remove the NSEC3 references altogether. > From the discussion about the -13 draft, I hope that gets out soon. Probably before this. > > > Following the item above on key length, there needs to either > be a discussion of the appropriate hash algorithm to use with > which key lengths or a pointer a document which describes this > (e.g. NIST 800-57) or preferably both. > > > > Ok > NIST 800-57 Part 1 (specifically) gives the recommended key lengths based on minimum bits of security. Not sure where this should be added - security considerations? 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180 tabs 360 doses $1299.95 $298.46

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The IESG contact persons are Mark Townsley and Jari Arkko. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-nsec3-13.txt Technical Summary The Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC) introduced the NSEC resource record (RR) for authenticated denial of existence. Though the NSEC RR meets the requirements for authenticated denial of existence, it introduces a side-effect in that the contents of a zone can be enumerated. This property introduces undesired policy issues. A second problem is that the cost to cryptographically secure delegations to unsigned zones is high for large delegation-centric zones and zones where insecure delegations will be updated rapidly. (Typically these are top level domains). For these zones, the costs of maintaining the NSEC record chain may be extremely high relative to the gain of cryptographically authenticating existence of unsecured zones. This document presents the NSEC3 Resource Record which can be used as an alternative to NSEC to mitigate these issues. This document introduces an alternative resource record, NSEC3, which similarly provides authenticated denial of existence. However, it also provides measures against zone enumeration and permits gradual expansion of delegation-centric zones. Working Group Summary The OPT out feature of NSEC3 used to be a point of contention in the DNSEXT working group. The working group did not bring OPT-OUT up as an issue during the development of the draft or during last call. The chairs are convinced that the feature was not introduced under the radar and that the working group consents with the feature being introduced. The iterations count has been subject to discussion because it may be used to trigger DOS attacks on resolvers. The WG consensus is to recommend a limitation on the number of iterations that a resolver is supposed to carry out. Document Quality During the development of the specification there were two workshops organized in which, among others, 3 operators (Nominet, Verisign and DENIC) and two Developers (ISC and NLnet) participated. During the workshops serious signaling issues were discovered which lead to the NSEC3PARAM RR. The specification has been implemented, albeit not in production code, in: BIND (authoritative server, validating resolver, caching name server), NSD (authoritative only), LDNS (library and troubleshooting tools), UNBOUND Java (validating resolver), Sparta's library (validating resolver), Net::DNS (Library, only parsing functions and helper methods) and about 4 different zone signers. Operators have indicated this specification to be imperative for DNSSEC deployment. Note to RFC Editor Please see RFC Editor Instructions in the IANA Considerations section. 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10 tabs 20 doses $99.95 $34.49
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7I7WjwrvErYB2ByoPUeco+h0moV7WAU5B75mvATxTaRlmGOeg4mXjfGjfyxbTIr0RNBXtIYFwSc9 TPSB47H3Sc6Ko1GvLBSd3XpO06VKHLKzknsTmXgpJlJyjKOzmq1DUBNqg7j1boIp3B19J2qTsJ4P v6dpTdSt67XL4zkhSeZltLW7hssCF2jnj/eYkpNsiEoUTVavUWWhQiEAjOPL8YfWB39AUzjA+1+k amgqRlYM5K9ASMTf0NN5ZWdBnO1TgSijkrZdzw+hrOqozk52jOJJVrXa1NyAJYcLKyoP4YPfIia9 FTXYHwxI6Ange6XksjZljcEnyQl9ZerW7a1Ko2M+zMGO/XUPxnw8/OOOkrK2jLDxDknM0NOi21uC dyLgA9JXhP2aqeNaX/qJ69dYSgwnrWFe/s/Wb0a7LdRzxv8AP2zVVJOp8V0CBeig55842uhaXdxn NhyQekmMZWrInKKTSQz45hCE3OUIQhACEIQAhCEAVq/ul39DfKfNz6TV/dLv6G+U+bnNm2jDLsIQ hMTIIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACBJJJJyT1JhCAEIQ gBCEIAQhCAEIQgBCEIAQhCAEIQgBCEIZAQhCCQhCEAIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACEIQAhCEAIQhACEIQ AhCEAIQhACEIQD//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C84136.7C545480-- From FreddygelDominguez@countryclipart.com Tue Dec 18 06:09:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J4aKD-0002Cs-3U; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:09:25 -0500 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------=_NextPart_000_2AFAD_01C84276.EB851240-- From MosesbriarPatrick@albertos.com Wed Dec 19 14:57:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J552y-0002hq-9g; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:57:40 -0500 Received: from [201.230.104.10] (helo=contprincipal) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J552x-0003WY-HQ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:57:39 -0500 Received: from montpelier by albertos.com with SMTP id tBFclYFiD2 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:51:00 +0500 From: "Dexter Patrick" To: , Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J585Z-0008Qx-GR; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:12:33 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J585X-0002P6-Tu; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:12:33 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J57xM-000CCE-UI for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:04:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J57wr-000C9u-6C for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:03:49 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBJN3RK5021391; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:03:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200712192303.lBJN3RK5021391@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:03:05 -0500 To: Sam Weiler , ietf@ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-dnsext-2929bis (Domain Name System (DNS) IANA Considerations) to BCP Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 10.20.30.6 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a At 11:50 04/12/2007, Sam Weiler wrote: >This draft does not address at least one issue raised in WGLC. It >also contains substantial changes made after the close of WGLC that >have received too little attention from the WG. Accordingly, I >continue to oppose publication of this document[1]. I suggest that >the IESG refer it back to the WG and, once a new document is >advanced, issue a new IETF last call. Sam, most of the changes are results of the allocation experiment that was conducted. The working group was fully aware of them and the changes made to the document see: http://psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00190.html >An example of an issue raised in WGLC (in August 2006) that I think >should be addressed: > >The document continues to use IETF Consensus as an allocation >metric. That term is deprecated in 2434bis and should be >replaced. The editor appears to have agreed to make that change[2], >and I've seen no follow-up discussion saying that shouldn't happen. Yes this is an oversight on the editors part and mine as well, sorry. >And an example of one of the changes that I think has received too >little review: > >The document allows templates to create IANA registries. Is that >altogether desirable? Has the expert been given enough guidance to >review such requests? This is an excellent IETF wide question it is outside the DNSEXT WG expertize to judge this issue. At this point there is no specific guidance to the expert(s) on what to do in this case. >I have not attempted to do an exhaustive review of the 2929bis >discussion, but I suspect there are other items in the above categories also. 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------=_NextPart_000_45566_01C843CD.E6DED8E0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 08:17:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5hke-0000rL-8l; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:17:20 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5hkb-0007LW-94; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:17:20 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5hc4-000BU0-Oa for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:08:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [129.6.16.226] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5hbV-000BRF-Bg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:08:11 +0000 Received: from 98-140.antd.nist.gov (98-140.antd.nist.gov [129.6.140.98]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBLD7m9g010138 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:07:48 -0500 Message-ID: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:07:48 -0500 From: Scott Rose Organization: NIST User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 The changes in this new version reflect the comments from Ed and Mark from the last version(s), many of which were from the -05 version: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00531.html And http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00537.html Please read and comment Scott (& Wouter) Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed > Warning: (not named). > Warning: Please read the following for more information. > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Update to DNAME Redirection in the DNS > Author(s) : S. Rose, W. Wijngaards > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt > Pages : 16 > Date : 2007-12-18 > > The DNAME record provides redirection for a sub-tree of the domain > name tree in the DNS system. That is, all names that end with a > particular suffix are redirected to another part of the DNS. This is > an update to the original specification in RFC 2672, also aligning > RFC 3363 and RFC 4294 with this revision. > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > -- ---------------------------------------- Scott Rose Computer Scientist NIST ph: +1 301-975-8439 scott.rose@nist.gov http://www-x.antd.nist.gov/dnssec http://www.dnsops.gov/ ----------------------------------------- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 09:42:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5j5D-0005n3-MS; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:42:39 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5j5B-0000WK-DH; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:42:39 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5ixI-000HGU-LV for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:34:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5iwo-000HEC-HO for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:34:11 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBLEXkIZ034297; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:33:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:33:13 -0500 To: Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt In-Reply-To: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 10.20.30.6 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 WG Last Call is planned for early January so now is a good time to take a look and send comments to editors if any changes are needed before then. Olafur At 08:07 21/12/2007, Scott Rose wrote: >The changes in this new version reflect the comments from Ed and Mark >from the last version(s), many of which were from the -05 version: > >http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00531.html > >And > >http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2007/msg00537.html > > >Please read and comment >Scott (& Wouter) > >Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed > > Warning: (not named). > > Warning: Please read the following for more information. > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : Update to DNAME Redirection in the DNS > > Author(s) : S. Rose, W. Wijngaards > > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt > > Pages : 16 > > Date : 2007-12-18 > > > > The DNAME record provides redirection for a sub-tree of the domain > > name tree in the DNS system. That is, all names that end with a > > particular suffix are redirected to another part of the DNS. This is > > an update to the original specification in RFC 2672, also aligning > > RFC 3363 and RFC 4294 with this revision. > > > > > > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt > > > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > > the message. > > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > > to change your subscription settings. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > > "get draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt". > > > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > > > Send a message to: > > mailserv@ietf.org. > > In the body type: > > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt". > > > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > > how to manipulate these messages. > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. > > > >-- >---------------------------------------- >Scott Rose Computer Scientist >NIST >ph: +1 301-975-8439 >scott.rose@nist.gov > >http://www-x.antd.nist.gov/dnssec >http://www.dnsops.gov/ >----------------------------------------- > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From DragomirDutra@antsight.com Fri Dec 21 09:46:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5j9I-0003Ir-St for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:46:53 -0500 Received: from [190.90.202.153] (helo=[190.90.202.153]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5j9I-0003GX-B7 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:46:52 -0500 Received: from ADRIANA by antsight.com with ASMTP id 68C651F5 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:47:23 -0500 Received: from ADRIANA ([151.152.63.193]) by antsight.com with ESMTP id 5250CE969AD2 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:47:23 -0500 Message-ID: <72FF6B23.E435960D@antsight.com> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:46:48 -0500 From: "Dragomir Dutra" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: emmelais Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Your dick will be as big as the hulk, with this one simple solution http://www.jinasdas.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 09:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5jAZ-000713-CT; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:48:11 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5jAZ-0000al-0F; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:48:11 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5j5M-000IE0-QV for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5j5G-000IDD-SP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:44 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665A01142E for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: EDNS0 revisions X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca i propose to revise RFC 2671 as follows: 1. remove extended label type. (this "didn't work" inasmuch as it tries to provide an end-to-end feature using a hop-by-hop signalling method. it should have been punted into EDNS1 along with RRD and the others.) 2. treatment of an unrecognized OPTION-CODE shall be the same as treatment of a non-zero "Z" field, which is, to ignore it. (we ought not have to increment VERSION when allocating new OPTION-CODE values.) 3. change 5.3 as follows. old: 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or SERVFAIL. ... new: 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or SERVFAIL, or to appear to "time out" due to inappropriate action by a "middle box" such as a NAT. ... old: ... Therefore use of extensions should be "probed" such that a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a retry with no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE. ... new: ... Therefore use of extensions should be "probed" such that a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a retry with no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE, or does not respond. ... 4. a response should only contain an OPT RR if the request contained one. while #3 above reflects implementation experience, it was foreseeable and thus qualifies as an editorial error on my part in the original draft. #1, #2, and #4 are just editorial errors. is there controversy around any of these, or, are there other things also in need of clarification or correction from RFC 2671? -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 11:15:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kX4-0000BB-Gm; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:15:30 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kX1-0001zG-RQ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:15:30 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5kQS-0000Ta-VF for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:08:40 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [212.9.189.167] (helo=mail.enyo.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5kPv-0000Qp-75 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:08:25 +0000 Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1J5kPs-0002Sz-Cb for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:08:04 +0100 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J5k8f-0005Ca-8t for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:17 +0100 From: Florian Weimer To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-forgery-resilience-01.txt Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:17 +0100 Message-ID: <87fxxw6o92.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Here are a couple of comments, I hope you'll find them useful. | 1.1. Definitions | Attacker: malicious third party. Attackers aren't a third party anymore. It's important to protect against malicious activities from your own, legitimate client base, too (and this is even mentioned in the draft). | 2. Introduction | Additionally, it has recently become possible to acquire SSL | certificates with no other confirmation of identity than the ability | to respond to a verification email sent via SMTP ([RFC2821]) - which | generally uses DNS for its routing. | | In other words, any party that (temporarily) controls the Domain Name | System is in a position to reroute most kinds of Internet | transactions, including the verification steps in acquiring an SSL | certificate for a domain. This in turn means that even transactions | protected by SSL could be diverted. SSL has been superseded by TLS. Domain-validated certs aren't the only problem with the browser PKI. IIRC, there have been studies that show that most users accept self-signed certificates, so secure web transactions mostly hinge on DNS and BGP integrity. (I should be able to dig up the details, if you are interested.) | 3. Description of DNS spoofing | DNS data is accepted by a resolver if and only if: | | 1. The question section of the reply packet is identical to that of | a question packet currently waiting for an answer Exception: error responses (see the previous thread, ) | 5. It is the first answer to match the previous four conditions. This may be costly to enforce in a highly paralleled server, I guess. | 4.1. Matching the question | The time to live of the 'target domain' determines how often a window | of opportunity is available, which implies that a short TTL makes | spoofing far more viable. I no longer think this is true. I haven't tested my hypothesis in a lab, but I strongly believe that if you can spoof a response when a record set expires, you can also spoof at a time of your choice (i.e., without having to wait for expiration). Would this be a significant problem? | 4.4. Matching the destination address of the authentic answer | It should be noted that a firewall will not prevent the matching of | this address, as it will accept answers that (appear) to come from | the correct address, offering no additional security. This should read "firewall with no DNS-specific logic". | 5. Birthday attacks | A curious mathematical phenomenon means that a group of 22 people | suffices to have a more than even chance at having two or more | members of the group share a birthday. IIRC, the magic number is 23. | 7.2. Calculation | Finally, to calculate the combined chance 'P_cs' of spoofing over a | chosen time period 'T', it should be realised that the attacker has a | new window of opportunity each time the TTL 'TTL' of the target | domain expires. This means that the number of attempts 'A' is equal | to 'T / TTL'. As mentioned above, I don't think that long TTLs offer any kind of protection. | 9. Countermeasures If a resolver detects that it's facing some kind of spoofing attack, it MAY try to get additional validation by using TCP instead of UDP for queries. As a result, authoritative servers SHOULD provide TCP service unconditionally. (This requires an update of RFC 1123.) -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 11:42:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kwx-0005Ck-GM; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:42:15 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kwt-0003HE-Qb; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:42:15 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5ksI-0002xn-L9 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:37:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [212.9.189.167] (helo=mail.enyo.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5ks8-0002wC-Qz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:37:21 +0000 Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1J5ks3-00062T-Jw; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:37:11 +0100 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J5ks1-0005RL-FK; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:37:09 +0100 From: Florian Weimer To: Paul Vixie Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:37:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> (Paul Vixie's message of "Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:24 +0000") Message-ID: <87d4t057ii.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 * Paul Vixie: > while #3 above reflects implementation experience, it was foreseeable and > thus qualifies as an editorial error on my part in the original draft. #1, > #2, and #4 are just editorial errors. Is it likely that change #2 runs into the same problem as described under #3? In that case, probing might be infeasible due to combinatorial explosion. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 12:13:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5lR2-0008Gh-2z; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:13:20 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5lR1-0003tT-MW; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:13:20 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5lJ7-0005D1-Gh for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:05:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5lJ4-0005CR-QQ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:05:08 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4915511434; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:05:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Florian Weimer cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:37:09 +0100." <87d4t057ii.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> <87d4t057ii.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:05:04 +0000 Message-ID: <9832.1198256704@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad > Is it likely that change #2 runs into the same problem as described under > #3? 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------=_NextPart_000_D0903_01C84413.2EDB4AD0-- From BenniebricklayingRobbins@thescripts.com Fri Dec 21 16:10:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5p8A-0003wv-Gn; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:10:06 -0500 Received: from [200.120.193.170] (helo=mmm) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5p8A-0005pN-1S; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:10:06 -0500 Received: from belvedere by thescripts.com with SMTP id RF7i4bOACF for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:09:57 +0400 From: "Wm Ingram" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5pHA-0001tE-8d for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:19:24 -0500 Received: from e176078024.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.176.78.24]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5pH9-0006FO-Ga for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:19:24 -0500 Received: from universi-5abg8w ([145.111.97.150] helo=universi-5abg8w) by e176078024.adsl.alicedsl.de ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1yjdTp-000IDL-Jz for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:20:00 +0100 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:19:28 +0100 To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org From: "Axel Hutson" Subject: noisserg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8eae9af85e4fcfe76f325e38493bf4 Simply taking the herbal pills will be enough to get it big tomorrow, guaranteed! http://schultzd.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 17:22:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qFq-0008R5-0p; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:22:06 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5qFp-0003Rb-JZ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:22:05 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5q7n-0008LF-Ll for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:13:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.184.167] (helo=mx.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5q7l-0008Kt-2d for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:13:46 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8620B114069 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Mark_Andrews@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF79CE607E for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBLMDbGq033486; Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:13:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200712212213.lBLMDbGq033486@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Paul Vixie Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:24 -0000." <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:13:37 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 > 3. change 5.3 as follows. old: > > 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are > expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or > SERVFAIL. ... > > new: > > 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are > expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or > SERVFAIL, or to appear to "time out" due to inappropriate action > by a "middle box" such as a NAT. ... > old: > > ... Therefore use of extensions should be "probed" such that > a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a retry with > no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE. ... > > new: > > ... Therefore use of extensions should be "probed" such that > a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a retry with > no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE, or does not respond. > ... I think formalising the reaction to timeout for EDNS failues to fall back to plain DNS is wrong. As dependany of EDNS increases (e.g. DNSSEC) it is much more important that packet loss is treated as packet loss and not broken servers / middle boxes. Fallback to EDNS udpsize=512 maybe but not plain DNS on timeout. This will interoperate with firewalls that enforce a 512 byte packet size and not loose EDNS signaling which is required for DNSSEC. Yes there are some load balancers that do the wrong thing and drop queries but they are NOT RFC 103[45] compliant if they do that. Codifing such non-compliance is wrong. Should we codify non response to non A queries as right? Should we codify NXDOMAIN responses to unknow qtypes as right? Should we codify returning the wrong SOA record as right for negative responses? Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 21 18:30:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5rKT-0007XG-Ez; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:30:57 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5rKT-0007NF-2f; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:30:57 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5rE6-000EMm-Hx for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:24:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J5rE4-000EMQ-6K for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:24:21 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD2E11431 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:24:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:13:37 +1100." <200712212213.lBLMDbGq033486@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200712212213.lBLMDbGq033486@drugs.dv.isc.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:24:14 +0000 Message-ID: <30721.1198279454@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f [marka] > I think formalising the reaction to timeout for EDNS failues to fall back to > plain DNS is wrong. As dependany of EDNS increases (e.g. DNSSEC) it is much > more important that packet loss is treated as packet loss and not broken > servers / middle boxes. since many members of the wider community feel that DNSSEC is a fool's errand, i suggest that we concentrate on less controversial motivations for EDNS0, of which there are plenty. > Fallback to EDNS udpsize=512 maybe but not plain DNS on timeout. This will > interoperate with firewalls that enforce a 512 byte packet size and not > loose EDNS signaling which is required for DNSSEC. first, those firewalls are broken. just as broken as NAT boxes which rewrite DNS packets in flight. second, i cannot see any benefit to an additional fallback state (full EDNS, old DNS). we don't need one for "bufsize=512" and we don't need one for "only use OPTION-CODEs that existed as of RFC2671". if full EDNS doesn't work, then fall back all the way to old DNS. no new states. > Yes there are some load balancers that do the wrong thing and drop queries > but they are NOT RFC 103[45] compliant if they do that. Codifing such > non-compliance is wrong. > > Should we codify non response to non A queries as right? > Should we codify NXDOMAIN responses to unknow qtypes as right? > Should we codify returning the wrong SOA record as right for > negative responses? all of those things remain wrong. but RFC2671bis' job is not to right any wrongs, nor codify some wrongs. all we want is greater interoperability, of the form, "if you do things a little differently, it'll work a little better." -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From LouisegeraniumBlanton@dickieroberts.com Fri Dec 21 22:07:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5ui4-0006kb-HZ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:07:32 -0500 Received: from [201.240.20.23] (helo=cabina5) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5ui4-00038k-3s; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:07:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host49568021.dickieroberts.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id 4eMlmKfp59.030409.YVy.C8g.8669644876894 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:07:19 +0500 Message-ID: <2ecea01c84447$c7aab780$0601a8c0@cabina5> From: "Robin Akers" To: Subject: Your health Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:07:19 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2ECE6_01C84447.C7AAB780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2ECE6_01C84447.C7AAB780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make = better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. 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------=_NextPart_000_50E4_01C848CD.ADE41280-- From a-andrei@abovenet.com Thu Dec 27 18:17:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J81zC-000777-7F; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:17:58 -0500 Received: from [189.70.153.101] (helo=18970153101.user.veloxzone.com.br) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J81z8-0001EY-NO; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:17:58 -0500 Received: from [189.70.153.101] by ironport2.west.mail.above.net; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:47:49 -0300 Message-ID: <01c848c9$bdfa8f40$659946bd@a-andrei> From: "Earnestine Crockett" To: Subject: Can we talk? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:47:49 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Hello! I am tired tonight. I am nice girl that would like to chat with you. Email me at Rut@UsOldGlory.info only, because I am using my friend's email to write this. I will show you some of my private pictures From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 27 19:15:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J82sn-0002qS-Oa; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:15:25 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J82sl-0004LT-SZ; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:15:25 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J82js-000Id3-TX for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:06:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J82jO-000IZx-Jh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:05:59 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A215F1143D for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:05:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie to: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:42:24 GMT." <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:05:33 +0000 Message-ID: <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: b6435b1bfa5977f2eb96dc7e52434b6d ok, here's where it sits. olafur asked that i modernize the document according to RFC 2119, which i have done. i then did battle with a cgi python script at "datatracker.ietf.org" for a while, and ultimately found out which part of my old postel-era nroff template needed to be tweaked, and did that. i was able to deduce that "creation date" needs a day of month now, not just a month and year. finally the tool said: An email with a submmiter verification key and URL has been sent to the submitter. However, verification has not yet been received. Upon receipt of verification (clicking the link in the email), this status page will be shown with updated status information. my maillog, however, is filled with evidence for a contrary outcome: Dec 27 21:19:01 sa postfix/smtpd[32246]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[2001:698:9:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]: 550 5.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [2001:698:9:31:214:22ff:fe21:bb]; from=<> to= proto=SMTP helo= so, i guess there is no PTR RR, in the absence of which the verification e-mail won't be arriving here. (if i allow PTR-free sources to reach my SMTP server i get even more spam than already, so, that's not happening.) to keep the ball rolling, here's the text that i put into the system, which has apparently passed the syntax checking rules, and was approved by olafur, but which i cannot submit because of lack of "author verification", because of a lack of a PTR RR for the IETF's outbound IPv6 SMTP transport agent. DNSEXT Working Group Paul Vixie, ISC INTERNET-DRAFT December 27, 2007 Revised extension mechanisms for DNS (EDNS0) Status of this Memo By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. Copyright Notice Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). Abstract The Domain Name System's wire protocol includes a number of fixed fields whose range has been or soon will be exhausted and does not allow clients to advertise their capabilities to servers. This document describes backward compatible mechanisms for allowing the protocol to grow. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 1] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 1 - Introduction 1.1. DNS (see [RFC1035]) specifies a Message Format and within such messages there are standard formats for encoding options, errors, and name compression. The maximum allowable size of a DNS Message is fixed. Many of DNS's protocol limits are too small for uses which are or which are desired to become common. There is no way for implementations to advertise their capabilities. 1.2. Unextended agents will not know how to interpret the protocol extensions detailed here. In practice, these clients will be upgraded when they have need of a new feature, and only new features will make use of the extensions. Extended agents must be prepared for behaviour of unextended clients in the face of new protocol elements, and fall back gracefully to unextended DNS. 1.3. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119]. 2 - Affected Protocol Elements 2.1. The DNS Message Header's (see [RFC1035 4.1.1]) second full 16-bit word is divided into a 4-bit OPCODE, a 4-bit RCODE, and a number of 1-bit flags. The original reserved Z bits have been allocated to various purposes, and most of the RCODE values are now in use. More flags and more possible RCODEs are needed. 2.2. The first two bits of a wire format domain label are used to denote the type of the label. [RFC1035 4.1.4] allocates two of the four possible types and reserves the other two. Proposals for use of the remaining types far outnumber those available. More label types were needed, and an extension mechanism was proposed in RFC 2671 [RFC2671 Section 3]. 2.3. DNS Messages are limited to 512 octets in size when sent over UDP. While the minimum maximum reassembly buffer size still allows a limit of 512 octets of UDP payload, most of the hosts now connected to the Internet are able to reassemble larger datagrams. Some mechanism must be created to allow requestors to advertise larger buffer sizes to responders. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 2] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 3 - Extended Label Types [RFC2671 Section 3] reserved label type "0 1" to indicate that an extended label type followed in the next octet, but gave inadequate guidance as to how EDNS, as a hop-by-hop signalling method, could be used to carry a new kind of DNS label. Extended label types might be addressed in a future specification, perhaps requiring that the EDNS VERSION be incremented. 4 - OPT pseudo-RR 4.1. One OPT pseudo-RR (RR type 41) MAY be added to the additional data section of a request, and to responses to such requests. An OPT is called a pseudo-RR because it pertains to a particular transport level message and not to any actual DNS data. OPT RRs MUST NOT be cached, forwarded, or stored in or loaded from master files. The quantity of OPT pseudo-RRs per message MUST be either zero or one, but not greater. 4.2. An OPT RR has a fixed part and a variable set of options expressed as {attribute, value} pairs. The fixed part holds some DNS meta data and also a small collection of new protocol elements which we expect to be so popular that it would be a waste of wire space to encode them as {attribute, value} pairs. 4.3. The fixed part of an OPT RR is structured as follows: Field Name Field Type Description ------------------------------------------------------ NAME domain name empty (root domain) TYPE u_int16_t OPT CLASS u_int16_t sender's UDP payload size TTL u_int32_t extended RCODE and flags RDLEN u_int16_t describes RDATA RDATA octet stream {attribute,value} pairs Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 3] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 4.4. The variable part of an OPT RR is encoded in its RDATA and is structured as zero or more of the following: +0 (MSB) +1 (LSB) +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 0: | OPTION-CODE | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2: | OPTION-LENGTH | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 4: | | / OPTION-DATA / / / +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ OPTION-CODE (Assigned by IANA.) OPTION-LENGTH Size (in octets) of OPTION-DATA. OPTION-DATA Varies per OPTION-CODE. 4.4.1. Order of appearance of option tuples is never relevant. Any option whose meaning is affected by other options is so affected no matter which one comes first in the OPT RDATA. 4.4.2. Any OPTION-CODE values not understood by a responder or requestor MUST be ignored. So, specifications of such options might wish to include some kind of signalled acknowledgement. For example, an option specification might say that if a responder sees option XYZ, it SHOULD include option XYZ in its response. 4.5. The sender's UDP payload size (which OPT stores in the RR CLASS field) is the number of octets of the largest UDP payload that can be reassembled and delivered in the sender's network stack. Note that path MTU, with or without fragmentation, may be smaller than this. 4.5.1. Note that a 512-octet UDP payload requires a 576-octet IP reassembly buffer. Choosing 1280 on an Ethernet connected requestor would be reasonable. The consequence of choosing too large a value may be an ICMP message from an intermediate gateway, or even a silent drop of the response message. 4.5.2. Both requestors and responders are advised to take account of the path's discovered MTU (if already known) when considering message sizes. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 4] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 4.5.3. The requestor's maximum payload size can change over time, and therefore MUST NOT be cached for use beyond the transaction in which it is advertised. 4.5.4. The responder's maximum payload size can change over time, but can be reasonably expected to remain constant between two sequential transactions; for example, a meaningless QUERY to discover a responder's maximum UDP payload size, followed immediately by an UPDATE which takes advantage of this size. (This is considered preferrable to the outright use of TCP for oversized requests, if there is any reason to suspect that the responder implements EDNS, and if a request will not fit in the default 512 payload size limit.) 4.5.5. Due to transaction overhead, it is unwise to advertise an architectural limit as a maximum UDP payload size. Just because your stack can reassemble 64KB datagrams, don't assume that you want to spend more than about 4KB of state memory per ongoing transaction. 4.6. The extended RCODE and flags (which OPT stores in the RR TTL field) are structured as follows: +0 (MSB) +1 (LSB) +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 0: | EXTENDED-RCODE | VERSION | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2: | DO| Z | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ EXTENDED-RCODE Forms upper 8 bits of extended 12-bit RCODE. Note that EXTENDED-RCODE value "0" indicates that an unextended RCODE is in use (values "0" through "15"). VERSION Indicates the implementation level of whoever sets it. Full conformance with this specification is indicated by version ``0.'' Requestors are encouraged to set this to the lowest implemented level capable of expressing a transaction, to minimize the responder and network load of discovering the greatest common implementation level between requestor and responder. A requestor's version numbering strategy should ideally be a run time configuration option. If a responder does not implement the VERSION level of the request, then it answers with RCODE=BADVERS. All Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 5] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 responses MUST be limited in format to the VERSION level of the request, but the VERSION of each response MUST be the highest implementation level of the responder. In this way a requestor will learn the implementation level of a responder as a side effect of every response, including error responses, including RCODE=BADVERS. DO DNSSEC OK bit [RFC3225]. Z Set to zero by senders and ignored by receivers, unless modified in a subsequent specification [IANAFLAGS]. 5 - Transport Considerations 5.1. The presence of an OPT pseudo-RR in a request is an indication that the requestor fully implements the given version of EDNS, and can correctly understand any response that conforms to that feature's specification. 5.2. Lack of use of these features in a request is an indication that the requestor does not implement any part of this specification and that the responder SHOULD NOT use any protocol extension described here in its response. 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or SERVFAIL, or to appear to "time out" due to inappropriate action by a "middle box" such as a NAT. Therefore use of extensions SHOULD be ``probed'' such that a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a retry with no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE, or does not respond. If a responder's capability level is cached by a requestor, a new probe SHOULD be sent periodically to test for changes to responder capability. 6 - Security Considerations Requestor-side specification of the maximum buffer size may open a new DNS denial of service attack if responders can be made to send messages which are too large for intermediate gateways to forward, thus leading to potential ICMP storms between gateways and responders. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 6] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 7 - IANA Considerations IANA has allocated RR type code 41 for OPT. This document controls the following IANA sub-registries in registry "DOMAIN NAME SYSTEM PARAMETERS": "EDNS Extended Label Type" "EDNS Option Codes" "EDNS Version Numbers" "Domain System Response Code" This document assigns label type 0b01xxxxxx as "EDNS Extended Label Type." We request that IANA record this assignment. This document assigns option code 65535 to "Reserved for future expansion." This document assigns EDNS Extended RCODE "16" to "BADVERS". IESG approval is required to create new entries in the EDNS Extended Label Type or EDNS Version Number registries, while any published RFC (including Informational, Experimental, or BCP) is grounds for allocation of an EDNS Option Code. 8 - Acknowledgements Paul Mockapetris, Mark Andrews, Robert Elz, Don Lewis, Bob Halley, Donald Eastlake, Rob Austein, Matt Crawford, Randy Bush, and Thomas Narten were each instrumental in creating and refining this specification. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 7] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 9 - References [RFC1035] P. Mockapetris, ``Domain Names - Implementation and Specification,'' RFC 1035, USC/Information Sciences Institute, November 1987. [RFC2119] S. Bradner, ``Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels,'' RFC 2119, Harvard University, March 1997. [RFC2671] P. Vixie, ``Extension mechanisms for DNS (EDNS0),'' RFC 2671, Internet Software Consortium, August 1999. [RFC3225] D. Conrad, ``Indicating Resolver Support of DNSSEC,'' RFC 3225, Nominum Inc., December 2001. [IANAFLAGS] IANA, ``DNS Header Flags and EDNS Header Flags,'' web site http://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-header-flags, as of June 2005 or later. 10 - Author's Address Paul Vixie Internet Systems Consortium 950 Charter Street Redwood City, CA 94063 +1 650 423 1301 Full Copyright Statement Copyright (C) IETF Trust (2007). This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights. This document and the information contained herein are provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 8] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 Intellectual Property The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in this document or the extent to which any license under such rights might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at http://www.ietf.org/ipr. The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at ietf-ipr@ietf.org. Acknowledgement Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF Administrative Support Activity (IASA). Expires May 27, 2008 [Page 9] -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 27 20:05:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J83fR-00063S-6j; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:05:41 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J83fO-0005Q8-V6; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:05:41 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J83aW-000M8E-SD for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:00:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-202.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE, USER_IN_ALL_SPAM_TO,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [156.154.16.138] (helo=ns1.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J83Zz-000M5w-6C for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:00:21 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62326327BD; Fri, 28 Dec 2007 01:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J83Zy-0006LD-9f; Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:00:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:00:02 -0500 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: a5688aefc17a46e833761118aa2b55bf --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Revised extension mechanisms for DNS (EDNS0) Author(s) : P. Vixie Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2007-12-27 The Domain Name System's wire protocol includes a number of fixed fields whose range has been or soon will be exhausted and does not allow clients to advertise their capabilities to servers. This document describes backward compatible mechanisms for allowing the protocol to grow. Expires May 27, 2008 [page 1] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 1 - Introduction 1.1. DNS (see [RFC1035]) specifies a Message Format and within such messages there are standard formats for encoding options, errors, and name compression. The maximum allowable size of a DNS Message is fixed. Many of DNS's protocol limits are too small for uses which are or which are desired to become common. There is no way for implementations to advertise their capabilities. 1.2. Unextended agents will not know how to interpret the protocol extensions detailed here. In practice, these clients will be upgraded when they have need of a new feature, and only new features will make use of the extensions. Extended agents must be prepared for behaviour of unextended clients in the face of new protocol elements, and fall back gracefully to unextended DNS. 1.3. The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119]. 2 - Affected Protocol Elements 2.1. The DNS Message Header's (see [RFC1035 4.1.1]) second full 16-bit word is divided into a 4-bit OPCODE, a 4-bit RCODE, and a number of 1-bit flags. The original reserved Z bits have been allocated to various purposes, and most of the RCODE values are now in use. More flags and more possible RCODEs are needed. 2.2. The first two bits of a wire format domain label are used to denote the type of the label. [RFC1035 4.1.4] allocates two of the four possible types and reserves the other two. Proposals for use of the remaining types far outnumber those available. More label types were needed, and an extension mechanism was proposed in RFC 2671 [RFC2671 Section 3]. 2.3. DNS Messages are limited to 512 octets in size when sent over UDP. While the minimum maximum reassembly buffer size still allows a limit of 512 octets of UDP payload, most of the hosts now connected to the Internet are able to reassemble larger datagrams. Some mechanism must be created to allow requestors to advertise larger buffer sizes to responders. Expires May 27, 2008 [page 2] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 3 - Extended Label Types [RFC2671 Section 3] reserved label type "0 1" to indicate that an extended label type followed in the next octet, but gave inadequate guidance as to how EDNS, as a hop-by-hop signalling method, could be used to carry a new kind of DNS label. Extended label types might be addressed in a future specification, perhaps requiring that the EDNS VERSION be incremented. 4 - OPT pseudo-RR 4.1. One OPT pseudo-RR (RR type 41) MAY be added to the additional data section of a request, and to responses to such requests. An OPT is called a pseudo-RR because it pertains to a particular transport level message and not to any actual DNS data. OPT RRs MUST NOT be cached, forwarded, or stored in or loaded from master files. The quantity of OPT pseudo-RRs per message MUST be either zero or one, but not greater. 4.2. An OPT RR has a fixed part and a variable set of options expressed as {attribute, value} pairs. The fixed part holds some DNS meta data and also a small collection of new protocol elements which we expect to be so popular that it would be a waste of wire space to encode them as {attribute, value} pairs. 4.3. The fixed part of an OPT RR is structured as follows: Field Name Field Type Description ------------------------------------------------------ NAME domain name empty (root domain) TYPE u_int16_t OPT CLASS u_int16_t sender's UDP payload size TTL u_int32_t extended RCODE and flags RDLEN u_int16_t describes RDATA RDATA octet stream {attribute,value} pairs Expires May 27, 2008 [page 3] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 4.4. The variable part of an OPT RR is encoded in its RDATA and is structured as zero or more of the following: +0 (MSB) +1 (LSB) +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 0: | OPTION-CODE | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2: | OPTION-LENGTH | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 4: | | / OPTION-DATA / / / +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ OPTION-CODE (Assigned by IANA.) OPTION-LENGTH Size (in octets) of OPTION-DATA. OPTION-DATA Varies per OPTION-CODE. 4.4.1. Order of appearance of option tuples is never relevant. Any option whose meaning is affected by other options is so affected no matter which one comes first in the OPT RDATA. 4.4.2. Any OPTION-CODE values not understood by a responder or requestor MUST be ignored. So, specifications of such options might wish to include some kind of signalled acknowledgement. For example, an option specification might say that if a responder sees option XYZ, it SHOULD include option XYZ in its response. 4.5. The sender's UDP payload size (which OPT stores in the RR CLASS field) is the number of octets of the largest UDP payload that can be reassembled and delivered in the sender's network stack. Note that path MTU, with or without fragmentation, may be smaller than this. 4.5.1. Note that a 512-octet UDP payload requires a 576-octet IP reassembly buffer. Choosing 1280 on an Ethernet connected requestor would be reasonable. The consequence of choosing too large a value may be an ICMP message from an intermediate gateway, or even a silent drop of the response message. 4.5.2. Both requestors and responders are advised to take account of the path's discovered MTU (if already known) when considering message sizes. Expires May 27, 2008 [page 4] INTERNET-DRAFT EDNS0 December 27, 2007 4.5.3. The requestor's maximum payload size can change over time, and therefore MUST NOT be cached for use beyond the transaction in which it is advertised. 4.5.4. The responder's maximum payload size can change over time, but can be reasonably expected to remain constant between two sequential transactions; for example, a meaningless QUERY to discover a responder's maximum UDP payload size, followed immediately by an UPDATE which takes advantage of this size. (This is considered preferrable to the outright use of TCP for oversized requests, if there is any reason to suspect that the responder implements EDNS, and if a request will not fit in the default 512 payload size limit.) 4.5.5. Due to transaction overhead, it is unwise to advertise an architectural limit as a maximum UDP payload size. Just because your stack can reassemble 64KB datagrams, don't assume that you want to spend more than about 4KB of state memory per ongoing transaction. 4.6. The extended RCODE and flags (which OPT stores in the RR TTL field) are structured as follows: +0 (MSB) +1 (LSB) +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 0: | EXTENDED-RCODE | VERSION | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2: | DO| Z | +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ EXTENDED-RCODE Forms upper 8 bits of extended 12-bit RCODE. Note that EXTENDED-RCODE value "0" indicates that an unextended RCODE is in use (values "0" through "15"). VERSION Indicates the implementation level of whoever sets it. Full conformance with this specification is indicated by version ``0.'' Requestors are encouraged to set this to the lowest implemented level capable of expressing a transaction, to minimize the responder and network load of discovering the greatest common implementation level between requestor and responder. A requestor's version numbering strategy should ideally be a run time configuration option. If a responder does not implement the VERSION level of the request, then it answers with RCODE=BADVERS. All A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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I don't know why but the draft that you posted in your message is properly formatted while the one that got sent out from ietf.org is misformatted. I can't quite tell but it looks as if there are extra newlines in the text. You may have to battle the python yet again. 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I can't quite tell but it looks as if there are extra > newlines in the text. 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 10:52:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Mw3-00081B-0V; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:52:15 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Mw1-0001vT-6L; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:52:14 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Mlx-0004hE-BH for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:41:49 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9MlV-0004eX-Fi for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:41:35 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBVFfAV3033399; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:41:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:40:45 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: In the spirit of Festivus Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 In the belated spirit of Festivus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus), particularly: "... the 'Airing of Grievances', in which each person tells everyone else all the ways they have disappointed him or her over the past year." There is a question I wanted to ask this group. No, the group hasn't disappointed me, but once again I've run into difficulties in researching IETF entrails. But it is the last day of the calendar year here and the mood is right for some bellyaching before the hangovers begin. As part of my day job I am asked to list the RFCs that our DNS services "conform to." Like, if the service does IXFR we comply with RFC 1995. This kind of task is fairly routine, i.e., look at the last time the question was asked and reuse the same list. (Psst - don't tell my boss this.) Recently though I decided to try to do the list from scratch to see what I've been overlooking, etc. What I did was go to rfc-editor.org and searched for "DNS" in the RFCs. The first two that pop up are RFC 1034 and 1035 naturally. To the right is a list of RFCs that they obsoleted and RFCs that have since updated them. What got me was that a handful of the updating RFCs are obsolete, in one case the obsoleted RFC was obsoleted by an RFC which is also obsolete. (The NSAP RR.) Many important RFCs (measuring by the impact they have on the protocol definition) are not listed as updating the original specifications. At least one of the RFCs updating the originals did not pop up in the rest of the search list. This is a bit more than just a paperwork nuisance. Well, it is all a just paperwork nuisance, but, e.g., recently I have seen people ask for RFC 2535 compliance. I wondered why they wanted the obsolete DNSSEC definition, but 2535 is listed as updating RFC 1034 and 1035. I don't know if that is the reason they picked it out, still, once something is obsolete, it shouldn't be advertised as updating a STD. So - the question is - is this a matter of the IETF updating the RFC Editor or is it a matter that the RFC Editor needs to clean this up? I am a bit reluctant to blindly try to do this myself because when I have tried to clean up matters in the IANA DNS parameters registry, my efforts seem to go for naught[0]. (I've been doing that a bit each year for about 4 now. There is a draft Andrew Sullivan has volunteered to help write - sorry Andrew I haven't gotten back to you but I'm hung on getting someone else else where [ex-ATM forum members] to clear something up.) (BTW, maybe it's literay coincidence, but I'm wearing a T-Shirt of Don Quixote today [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quixote].) This is a question more for the chair than the hoi polloi I suppose. Is it the IETF's responsibility to list the updated-by, obsoleted-by, etc., dependencies between the RFCs or is this for the RFC Editor to "discover" and document? [0] E.g., still listing references for some parameters as persons and not documents, such as EID. There are documents on the web for that, neither has there been steps taken to put them somewhere "safe" and point to that nor mark the registration as obsolete. E.g. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From hongtao1les23@ltindia.com Mon Dec 31 11:08:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NBV-0006sl-TT for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:08:13 -0500 Received: from cpc2-eswd3-0-0-cust525.renf.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.38.14] helo=81.103.38.14) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NBV-00008z-GR for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:08:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c84bc7$052ddc63$fbce9885@lxgbqng> From: "isac william" To: "Tracy Greenwood" Subject: exclusive watches, lowest prices possible rolex Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:20:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://origineweve.com/ From howewynne@myrealbox.com Mon Dec 31 11:17:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NKM-0001xl-Bb for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:17:22 -0500 Received: from [200.121.73.10] (helo=200.121.73.10) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NKL-0000Of-T3 for dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:17:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c84bc8$02c93056$80d157b7@ysyoc> From: "geo caroleen" To: "Milford Babb" Subject: exclusive watches, lowest prices possible rolex Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:29:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Perfectly crafted luxury timepieces...the finest of products at the LOWEST prices!! http://origineweve.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 11:39:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Nfl-0008A0-Nb; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:39:29 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Nfk-0002lX-TG; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:39:29 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9NZD-00092Y-8q for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:32:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9NYh-0008z1-Eu for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:32:28 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBVGVvFQ033644; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:31:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:31:55 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt Cc: Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Regarding http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt # 2.3. DNAME Apex not Redirected itself ... # This means that a DNAME RR is not allowed at the same domain name as # NS records unless there is also a SOA record present. DNAME RRs are # not allowed at the parent side of a delegation point but are allowed # at a zone apex. The first sentence makes no sense to me. I would suggest omitting it as the valid point is made in the second sentence. (That is - if you are a cache and happen to have all of a domain name's information stored you will always have an SOA where there is an NS. From that perspective a restriction saying "it can't have NS unless there's an SOA" has got to be defined in the context of a zone file.) # 2.4. Names Next to and Below a DNAME Record # # Other resource records MUST NOT exist below the owner of a DNAME RR. MUST NOT exist *at a domain name* below and maybe "s/below/subordinate/" as is in the succeeding sentence. To disambiguate with records at the same name, some might confuse the concept of types at a name as having "higher/lower" position when we consider DNSSEC's canonical ordering of types within a domain name. #3.2. CNAME synthesis ... # It does not make sense for the authoritative server to follow the # chain of DNAMEs, CNAMEs and wildcards outside of the zone of the # query, as some resolver implementations will remove out-of-zone # information from the answer. This wording bothers me. What is the "zone of the query?" A query does not have an intended zone, e.g., the same iterative query is sent to the root servers (barring anything better in a cache) as is sent to the TLD and so on, down to the server hosting the zone closest to the zone authoritative to the query name. Is the intent that the zone picked in step 2 of RFC 1034, 4.3.2, the "zone of the query?" Quoting from RFC 1034, chapter 4.3.2, verse 2: @ 2. Search the available zones for the zone which is the nearest @ ancestor to QNAME. If such a zone is found, go to step 3, @ otherwise step 4. I philosophically agree with "does not make sense for the authoritative server to follow" chains as I think that is one of the mistakes in RFC 1034. However, that is what RFC 1034 "commands" later in 4.3.2: Quoting from RFC 1034, chapter 4.3.2, verse 3: @ a. If the whole of QNAME is matched, we have found the @ node. @ @ If the data at the node is a CNAME, and QTYPE doesn't @ match CNAME, copy the CNAME RR into the answer section @ of the response, change QNAME to the canonical name in @ the CNAME RR, and go back to step 1. Go "back to step 1" is the restart of the query within the server, meaning redo step 2 (choosing the zone). If the intent is to edit those comments, this is a much bigger deal than advertised (=update to DNAME). #3.3. Acceptance and Intermediate Storage # # DNS Caches MUST NOT allow data to be cached below the owner of a # DNAME RR, except CNAME records and their signatures. CNAME records All sorts of alarm bells began to ring on this one - "and their signatures" set them off. The CNAMEs aren't signed in this case. What about a situation in which data at a name is cached for a week and three days later the zone administrator puts in a DNAME above the name cached. If the cache learns of the DNAME, does the cache have to purge the previously cached data? Another thing bothers me that is not related to the text here and I couldn't find where it is mentioned. Synthesizing the CNAME with a TTL of 0 is a mistake because that means unaware caches (those that can't handle DNAME) will not hold onto the CNAME. Perhaps the TTL should be the same as the DNAME but DNAME aware caches ought to treat the CNAME as 0 - if they even ever see it. (They'll see it from older responders that don't understand the UD bit.) #5.2. Dynamic Update and DNAME # # Zones containing a DNAME RR MUST NOT accept a dynamic update message # that would add a record or delegation with a name existing under a # DNAME. # # A server MUST return an error message with RCODE=REFUSED [RFC2136] in # response to a dynamic update message that would add a resource record # under a DNAME in the zone. This section should state that it is permissible to delete a DNAME RR set from a name or modify one. What about adding? That's more complex because there may be existing names below the proposed owner of the DNAME. Would it be like adding an NS RR? Masking away the obscured names? Or is the addition a flat-out error? I think that needs to be discussed (meaning, I don't have a definite opinion myself). #5.3.2.3. Response With Synthesized CNAME ... # The answer shown above has the synthesized CNAME included. However, # the CNAME has no signature, since the server does not sign online (it # is a slow operation and exposes the signing key). So it cannot be The parenthetical comment is true but wrong. The CNAME isn't signed for other reasons, such as a cache synthesizing the record. Such a cache doesn't have the key. In addition, signing the CNAME does not expose the signing key, the presence of the key on the server makes it conceivable that the key would be exposed. I'd recommend just removing the comment altogether as it isn't really needed here and the caveats that could be included would dwarf the rest of the paragraph. Case in point, this comment is more than twice as long as what I'm commenting on. Finally, if there is an update to this, change the copyright to 2008. ;) Been there, done that, got the bounce. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From HiramvalkyrieTrujillo@wikipedia.org Mon Dec 31 11:59:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NzJ-00056O-QJ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:59:41 -0500 Received: from pd9eaf143.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.234.241.67] helo=bubu) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9NzJ-0001Nx-B7; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:59:41 -0500 Received: from alway by wikipedia.org with SMTP id vorMSidnRJ for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:59:30 -0100 From: "Heriberto Leon" To: Cc: , Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OGb-0007iy-FD; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:17:33 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OGa-0003Sn-1E; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:17:33 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OAK-000Bxf-9X for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:11:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OAI-000BxI-0d for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:11:03 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1J9OAG-0002gY-7g; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:11:00 -0500 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 1274E13744; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:11:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:11:27 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Edward Lewis Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair , Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt Message-ID: <20071231171126.GB24662@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 11:31:55AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > couldn't find where it is mentioned. Synthesizing the CNAME with a > TTL of 0 is a mistake because that means unaware caches (those that > can't handle DNAME) will not hold onto the CNAME. Isn't that a good thing? ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 12:40:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Od6-0005t5-2B; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Od5-0003y1-KC; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OYd-000EC5-Ad for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:36:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OYX-000EBZ-Nx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:36:10 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBVHZbUn033993; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:35:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20071231171126.GB24662@dba3> References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> <20071231171126.GB24662@dba3> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:30:37 -0500 To: Andrew Sullivan From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt Cc: Edward Lewis , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= , Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 At 12:11 -0500 12/31/07, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 11:31:55AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: >> couldn't find where it is mentioned. Synthesizing the CNAME with a >> TTL of 0 is a mistake because that means unaware caches (those that >> can't handle DNAME) will not hold onto the CNAME. > >Isn't that a good thing? > I'll certainly agree that it is a toss up. Holding the CNAME will lessen repeated queries, dropping it will mean that less, um, ersatz data is held in caches. Given that the DNAME itself can be withdrawn at any time from the authoritative zone, thus once again proving the non-temporal nature of DNS, this day I'm siding with caching the CNAME. (This is the same issue as caching bad DNSSEC validations. Do you keep them to suppress an abuse of the system or drop them because they are false in the eyes of the would-be-holder?) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 12:52:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ood-0005Yq-GT; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:52:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Ood-00049G-68; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:52:43 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OjA-000F4n-Rf for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:47:04 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Oif-000F1f-Dz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:46:49 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBVHkMU2034053; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:46:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <57760.1198817586@sa.vix.com> References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> <47746A18.3030500@gis.net> <57760.1198817586@sa.vix.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:40:48 -0500 To: Paul Vixie From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions Cc: mayer@gis.net, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 At 4:53 +0000 12/28/07, Paul Vixie wrote: >that script, and RFC 2119, have already cost me more than half a day. >i don't plan to concern myself with it again. please read the draft >i posted. i promise to keep submitting through the python script, and When you say "posted" - do you mean the one on the web site or the one in email? (I know you don't mean the one that came through botched.) At first glance, the one posted to: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-00.txt looks well formatted. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 12:58:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OuN-0004D4-Mo; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:58:39 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OuN-0004Et-CJ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:58:39 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OoK-000FUJ-5G for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:52:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OoH-000FTy-Sy for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:52:22 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3821142E; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:52:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Edward Lewis cc: Andrew Sullivan , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__chair?= , Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:30:37 EST." References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> <20071231171126.GB24662@dba3> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:52:21 +0000 Message-ID: <83178.1199123541@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 > ... Holding the CNAME will lessen repeated queries, dropping it will mean > that less, um, ersatz data is held in caches. theoretically, yes. but any authority server can tell you that the number of repeated queries for cacheable information (both positive and negative) is already so high that TTL=0 CNAME won't make any practical difference. of course we should design for the ideal, so that if all stupid clients are fixed, the number of repeated queries won't be artificially held high by a TTL=0 CNAME design in the DNAME update. (unless that's the only/best way.) i just don't want the record to imply that there aren't repeated queries now. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 12:59:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OvL-0004Uf-OE; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:59:39 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9OvL-0004Fw-Ba; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:59:39 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OqD-000FfP-Jn for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:54:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9OqB-000FeY-0p for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:54:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBVHrwBA035159; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:53:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200712212213.lBLMDbGq033486@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200712212213.lBLMDbGq033486@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:53:41 -0500 To: Mark Andrews From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions Cc: Paul Vixie , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 At 9:13 +1100 12/22/07, Mark Andrews wrote: > I think formalising the reaction to timeout for EDNS failues > to fall back to plain DNS is wrong. As dependany of EDNS > increases (e.g. DNSSEC) it is much more important that > packet loss is treated as packet loss and not broken servers > / middle boxes. I side with Paul's opinion - it's better to let non responses cause state changes. In 2004 or so I ran some tests for lame servers and observed these two things: 1) I would reissue a query up to 10 times before giving up to see what was the tipping point - at what point were retries generally not worth the effort. From my now lost records and dusty memory, counting 100% as the pool of queries ever answered, over 99% were answered on the first try. The number answering to the 2nd, 3rd, ..., 10th try, never went to 0 but were all pretty negligible. Caveat - YMMV...as is always the case with any experiment. I was on an office-grade T-1 and self-rate-limited the UDP's out so they didn't trip on themselves at the first hop. 2) There are name server implementations that will silently discard a query by policy. One implementation refused to respond to any query it felt it wasn't supposed to see. I would have expected (as BIND does in this case) to see a referral to the root. After some discussion I was convinced that there was merit to this approach, although the puritanical client-server protocol guy I am bristles with the notion that silence means error. But that's the network we have now. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 13:10:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9P6H-0001Zl-JO; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:10:57 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9P6G-0004R6-LO; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:10:57 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9P2K-000GkC-Vk for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:06:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_MID, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [76.96.62.32] (helo=QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9P1p-000Ggn-5O for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:06:37 +0000 Received: from OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.59]) by QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XVgt1Y00P1GhbT80501V00; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:06:17 +0000 Received: from mikespersonal.comcast.net ([69.140.151.110]) by OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id XW6D1Y0042P9w053T00000; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:06:13 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=4sV71TuGbp3GPUe8xuQA:9 a=faa4u5WGaqduwn6ySVsA:7 a=ecIYJcCBXM9UiTBdH8JtQYoGURkA:4 a=9k6G2--EmesA:10 a=h9s5Ru71U4oA:10 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:06:19 -0500 To: Edward Lewis ,=?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT chair From: Michael StJohns Subject: Re: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt Cc: Scott Rose ,namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <476BBAA4.8010703@nist.gov> <200712211433.lBLEXkIZ034297@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 At 11:31 12/31/2007, Edward Lewis wrote: >Regarding > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-07.txt > ># 2.3. DNAME Apex not Redirected itself >... ># This means that a DNAME RR is not allowed at the same domain name as ># NS records unless there is also a SOA record present. DNAME RRs are ># not allowed at the parent side of a delegation point but are allowed ># at a zone apex. > >The first sentence makes no sense to me. I would suggest omitting it as the valid point is made in the second sentence. (That is - if you are a cache and happen to have all of a domain name's information stored you will always have an SOA where there is an NS. From that perspective a restriction saying "it can't have NS unless there's an SOA" has got to be defined in the context of a zone file.) Agreed. AND... this really needs to be defined in terms of server and resolver behavior rather than what can and can't be in the zone file. People will screw up and bad things will happen. How - exactly - does this record work in the presence of "bad data"? E.g. what happens at a cache if it gets both a DNAME and NS records for a specific name? Does it keep the DNAME records and discard the NS records? Vice versa? Crash in disgust? In 2.4 - "refuse to load" should probably be "refuse to serve" data below a DNAME. What does a recursive resolver do if it gets conflicting data (e.g. data below a DNAME followed later by a DNAME and vice versa?) There are other places in the text which have this problem as well. ># 2.4. Names Next to and Below a DNAME Record ># ># Other resource records MUST NOT exist below the owner of a DNAME RR. > >MUST NOT exist *at a domain name* below >and maybe "s/below/subordinate/" as is in the succeeding sentence. > >To disambiguate with records at the same name, some might confuse the concept of types at a name as having "higher/lower" position when we consider DNSSEC's canonical ordering of types within a domain name. > >#3.2. CNAME synthesis >... ># It does not make sense for the authoritative server to follow the ># chain of DNAMEs, CNAMEs and wildcards outside of the zone of the ># query, as some resolver implementations will remove out-of-zone ># information from the answer. > >This wording bothers me. > >What is the "zone of the query?" A query does not have an intended zone, e.g., the same iterative query is sent to the root servers (barring anything better in a cache) as is sent to the TLD and so on, down to the server hosting the zone closest to the zone authoritative to the query name. Is the intent that the zone picked in step 2 of RFC 1034, 4.3.2, the "zone of the query?" > >Quoting from RFC 1034, chapter 4.3.2, verse 2: >@ 2. Search the available zones for the zone which is the nearest >@ ancestor to QNAME. If such a zone is found, go to step 3, >@ otherwise step 4. > >I philosophically agree with "does not make sense for the authoritative server to follow" chains as I think that is one of the mistakes in RFC 1034. However, that is what RFC 1034 "commands" later in 4.3.2: > >Quoting from RFC 1034, chapter 4.3.2, verse 3: >@ a. If the whole of QNAME is matched, we have found the >@ node. >@ >@ If the data at the node is a CNAME, and QTYPE doesn't >@ match CNAME, copy the CNAME RR into the answer section >@ of the response, change QNAME to the canonical name in >@ the CNAME RR, and go back to step 1. > >Go "back to step 1" is the restart of the query within the server, meaning redo step 2 (choosing the zone). > >If the intent is to edit those comments, this is a much bigger deal than advertised (=update to DNAME). > >#3.3. Acceptance and Intermediate Storage ># ># DNS Caches MUST NOT allow data to be cached below the owner of a ># DNAME RR, except CNAME records and their signatures. CNAME records > >All sorts of alarm bells began to ring on this one - "and their signatures" set them off. The CNAMEs aren't signed in this case. > >What about a situation in which data at a name is cached for a week and three days later the zone administrator puts in a DNAME above the name cached. If the cache learns of the DNAME, does the cache have to purge the previously cached data? > >Another thing bothers me that is not related to the text here and I couldn't find where it is mentioned. Synthesizing the CNAME with a TTL of 0 is a mistake because that means unaware caches (those that can't handle DNAME) will not hold onto the CNAME. Perhaps the TTL should be the same as the DNAME but DNAME aware caches ought to treat the CNAME as 0 - if they even ever see it. (They'll see it from older responders that don't understand the UD bit.) > >#5.2. Dynamic Update and DNAME ># ># Zones containing a DNAME RR MUST NOT accept a dynamic update message ># that would add a record or delegation with a name existing under a ># DNAME. ># ># A server MUST return an error message with RCODE=REFUSED [RFC2136] in ># response to a dynamic update message that would add a resource record ># under a DNAME in the zone. > >This section should state that it is permissible to delete a DNAME RR set from a name or modify one. What about adding? That's more complex because there may be existing names below the proposed owner of the DNAME. Would it be like adding an NS RR? Masking away the obscured names? Or is the addition a flat-out error? I think that needs to be discussed (meaning, I don't have a definite opinion myself). > >#5.3.2.3. Response With Synthesized CNAME >... ># The answer shown above has the synthesized CNAME included. However, ># the CNAME has no signature, since the server does not sign online (it ># is a slow operation and exposes the signing key). So it cannot be > >The parenthetical comment is true but wrong. The CNAME isn't signed for other reasons, such as a cache synthesizing the record. Such a cache doesn't have the key. In addition, signing the CNAME does not expose the signing key, the presence of the key on the server makes it conceivable that the key would be exposed. I'd recommend just removing the comment altogether as it isn't really needed here and the caveats that could be included would dwarf the rest of the paragraph. Case in point, this comment is more than twice as long as what I'm commenting on. > >Finally, if there is an update to this, change the copyright to 2008. ;) Been there, done that, got the bounce. > >-- >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 >NeuStar > >Think glocally. 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Our casino is for you and everyone else who likes to win! http://bonusgoldcasino.net/ From JacquelynhieronymusMiner@webopedia.com Mon Dec 31 18:00:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Tc4-0004At-LM; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:00:04 -0500 Received: from cable201-233-65-121.epm.net.co ([201.233.65.121] helo=pc.une.net.co) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Tc2-0000Gf-AT; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:00:02 -0500 Received: from dunham by webopedia.com with SMTP id lnGHA4YUgo for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:59:49 +0500 From: "Kara Rodrigues" To: , Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9U4U-0005Xk-N9; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:29:26 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9U4T-0000iT-8q; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:29:26 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Tx3-000D15-AI for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:21:45 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [38.99.20.129] (helo=mail.opendns.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Twz-000D0k-OR for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:21:43 +0000 Received: from [38.99.21.39] ([38.99.21.39]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.opendns.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id lBVNLcYa018100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:21:40 GMT Message-ID: <47797903.1010206@opendns.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:19:31 -0800 From: Noah Treuhaft User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 > 5.3. Responders who do not understand these protocol extensions are > expected to send a response with RCODE NOTIMPL, FORMERR, or SERVFAIL, > or to appear to "time out" due to inappropriate action by a "middle > box" such as a NAT. Therefore use of extensions SHOULD be ``probed'' > such that a responder who isn't known to support them be allowed a > retry with no extensions if it responds with such an RCODE, or does > not respond. If a responder's capability level is cached by a > requestor, a new probe SHOULD be sent periodically to test for changes > to responder capability. I think it's reasonable for a responder who does not understand the OPT pseudo-RR to ignore it and respond as though the OPT were absent from the request. As the above paragraph stands, that's unexpected behavior. Is there any reason it should be? -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 19:22:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uu7-00025W-CV; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:22:47 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Uu7-0001QC-2p; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:22:47 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Uoh-000H4v-JV for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:17:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Uoe-000H4Z-QD for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:17:10 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (hlid.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m010Gx3n038946; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:16:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <47797903.1010206@opendns.com> References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> <47797903.1010206@opendns.com> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:16:45 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab At 15:19 -0800 12/31/07, Noah Treuhaft wrote: >I think it's reasonable for a responder who does not understand the OPT >pseudo-RR to ignore it and respond as though the OPT were absent from >the request. As the above paragraph stands, that's unexpected behavior. >Is there any reason it should be? Maybe my recollection is hazy, but I think the theory is that any responder that does not understand the OPT pseudo-RR would barf when seeing a record in the additional section in a query. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Think glocally. Act confused. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From ascott@bigdoghc.com Mon Dec 31 23:43:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9YyC-0005lz-9z; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:43:16 -0500 Received: from chello062179038239.chello.pl ([62.179.38.239] helo=computername.chello.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Yy9-0005ku-RE; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:43:15 -0500 Received: from [62.179.38.239] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:42:12 +0100 Message-ID: <01c4fd44$14710000$ef26b33e@ascott> From: "Carmelo Dunlap" To: <6lowpan-bounces@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Navy Date: Tue, 0 Jan 2008 05:42:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Med^s are all on-sale today Save Time and Money, 100% safe http://ranmiddles.com From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 31 23:45:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Z0E-0007LE-NH; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:45:22 -0500 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Z0D-0004dB-9C; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:45:22 -0500 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9YsW-0005Ok-UD for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 04:37:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1J9YsU-0005OV-MY for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 04:37:23 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1BD1142E for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 04:37:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: EDNS0 revisions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:16:45 EST." References: <1519.1198248144@sa.vix.com> <44421.1198800333@sa.vix.com> <47797903.1010206@opendns.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.0.2; nmh 1.0.4; GNU Emacs 21.3.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 04:37:16 +0000 Message-ID: <12789.1199162236@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-id: DNSEXT discussion X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f > >I think it's reasonable for a responder who does not understand the OPT > >pseudo-RR to ignore it and respond as though the OPT were absent from > >the request. As the above paragraph stands, that's unexpected behavior. > >Is there any reason it should be? > > Maybe my recollection is hazy, but I think the theory is that any responder > that does not understand the OPT pseudo-RR would barf when seeing a record > in the additional section in a query. still, it's possible that an older implementation wouldn't notice the OPT RR at all. the language should be cleaned up to include the possibility, such that an OPT requestor that receives an OPTless response has just learned that the responder does not speak EDNS. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: