From nobody Wed Sep 3 05:49:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4541A02D2 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.662 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xovb7D3zKZ6i for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 05:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (amt0.gin.ntt.net [129.250.11.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D8AC1A02D0 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 05:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.10.140] (gw.mountain2sea.com [71.70.135.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1581613BF6 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Pusateri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <65F4CC0B-B0BD-42C4-B944-A49438AAF6BC@bangj.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:48:59 -0400 To: dnssd@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1973.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1973.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnssd/YnplOlZaZaQT3GzDaX1TSTMewVs Subject: [dnssd] Hybrid Proxy SOA records X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:49:03 -0000 For each delegated subdomain, the hybrid proxy should provide an SOA = record when queried. In the case of LLQ, a client can query a service = with an SOA record type and either get back an SOA response in the = answer section or is supposed to put the SOA for the subdomain in the = authority section if LLQ isn't supported. There are many recommendations out there for SOA response values but I = was wondering if the Hybrid Proxy is in a unique enough position that = the draft should provide guidance on the SOA response values. Ripe has some recommendations here: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-203 But when does the serial number change in a dynamic proxy? The = recommendations from Ripe seem too long for the hybrid proxy case. Any clue would be helpful. Thanks, Tom= From nobody Wed Sep 3 06:08:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B896E1A8A61 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 06:08:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.579 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3IOxkSOVPf3 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 06:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jenni2.inet.fi (mta-out1.inet.fi [62.71.2.194]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FF81A8A60 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 06:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from poro.lan (84.248.80.109) by jenni2.inet.fi (8.5.142.08) (authenticated as stenma-47) id 53FAE17800E1C0EC; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 16:08:19 +0300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Markus Stenberg In-Reply-To: <65F4CC0B-B0BD-42C4-B944-A49438AAF6BC@bangj.com> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 16:08:19 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0DDB5E45-AA96-41FF-9F65-E9F00F705749@iki.fi> References: <65F4CC0B-B0BD-42C4-B944-A49438AAF6BC@bangj.com> To: Tom Pusateri X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnssd/wahdpKWV-sqnNJiWnpF6NtYpnd8 Cc: dnssd@ietf.org, Markus Stenberg Subject: Re: [dnssd] Hybrid Proxy SOA records X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:08:27 -0000 For the record, I=92m not that convinced SOA is that useful - I don=92t = implement LLQ and also no SOA for zones currently. That said.. On 3.9.2014, at 15.48, Tom Pusateri wrote: > There are many recommendations out there for SOA response values but I = was wondering if the Hybrid Proxy is in a unique enough position that = the draft should provide guidance on the SOA response values. >=20 > Ripe has some recommendations here: >=20 > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-203 These figures are way off the mark for what hybrid proxy provides - for = example, mdns maximum TTL is hour or two, and the recommendation has = minimum TTL of 2 days.. :-p > But when does the serial number change in a dynamic proxy? The = recommendations from Ripe seem too long for the hybrid proxy case. Constantly? Just calculate it as function of time?=20 If you want to be fancy, it could be incremented every time you see mdns = probe+announce steps occur, but someone may silently join or leave = anyway so it wouldn=92t be correct always at any rate.=20 Cheers, -Markus= From nobody Thu Sep 4 19:31:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DD81A036E for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:31:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.662 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7iOYeFCoTA8V for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (amt0.gin.ntt.net [129.250.11.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E44AD1A036B for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.10.153] (gw.mountain2sea.com [71.70.135.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6694913DCF; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 22:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1974.6\)) From: Tom Pusateri In-Reply-To: <0DDB5E45-AA96-41FF-9F65-E9F00F705749@iki.fi> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 22:31:07 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2FD4319B-F177-446F-95CA-5AB7DE534BFD@bangj.com> References: <65F4CC0B-B0BD-42C4-B944-A49438AAF6BC@bangj.com> <0DDB5E45-AA96-41FF-9F65-E9F00F705749@iki.fi> To: Markus Stenberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1974.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnssd/vsJthrya_QP64iCHgBRpopfm0dk Cc: dnssd@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnssd] Hybrid Proxy SOA records X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to Bonjour \(mDNS and DNS-SD\) for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 02:31:13 -0000 > On Sep 3, 2014, at 9:08 AM, Markus Stenberg = wrote: >=20 > For the record, I=92m not that convinced SOA is that useful - I don=92t = implement LLQ and also no SOA for zones currently. >=20 I'm in the process of implementing LLQ so I want to make sure clients = don't give up. > That said.. >=20 > On 3.9.2014, at 15.48, Tom Pusateri wrote: >> There are many recommendations out there for SOA response values but = I was wondering if the Hybrid Proxy is in a unique enough position that = the draft should provide guidance on the SOA response values. >>=20 >> Ripe has some recommendations here: >>=20 >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-203 >=20 > These figures are way off the mark for what hybrid proxy provides - = for example, mdns maximum TTL is hour or two, and the recommendation has = minimum TTL of 2 days.. :-p >=20 >> But when does the serial number change in a dynamic proxy? The = recommendations from Ripe seem too long for the hybrid proxy case. >=20 > Constantly? Just calculate it as function of time?=20 >=20 > If you want to be fancy, it could be incremented every time you see = mdns probe+announce steps occur, but someone may silently join or leave = anyway so it wouldn=92t be correct always at any rate.=20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > -Markus Thanks for the suggestion. It would not be hard to update a timestamp each time the cache changes = on the interface. But the standard ascii format of YYYYMMDDNN where NN = is a sequence number does not leave enough flexibility for lots of = changes to the cache throughout the day. In this case, and since we are = limited to 32 bits, it would be better to use the number of seconds = since the epoch. The only restriction this provides is that you can't = identify changes more than once per second and still be within 32 bits. = But this isn't a realistic problem since you shouldn't have sub-second = tracking. Here's the default values I'm going to use. I'll make sure they can be = overridden through configuration: Serial: number of seconds since the epoch Expire: 24 hours Refresh: this is probably meaningless in the context of the proxy but = I'll use 2 hours Retry: this is also probably meaningless but I'll use 30 minutes Min TTL: the default negative TTL [RFC 2308] could be used in the = context of the proxy but this isn't clear because the NSEC records are = impossible to proxy for since we don't know all of the records. I'll use = 30 minutes. Thanks, Tom