From nobody Mon Mar 2 02:06:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C825B3A0042; Mon, 2 Mar 2020 02:06:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= Message-ID: <158314356779.20288.747863183466626220@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2020 02:06:07 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2020 10:06:08 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nit sec 2: "on-link An on-link attacker is [...]; thus, the external attacker is in the same multicast domain." s/external attacker/on-link attacker/ I agree with Barry that at least RFC6763 and RFC7558 should be normative references. Also thanks for the quick reply to the TSV-ART review (and thanks Tommy for the review!)! From nobody Wed Mar 4 06:36:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2F43A0408; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 06:36:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <158333256222.29390.7571480971121506054@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 06:36:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Alissa Cooper's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 14:36:02 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I was missing our old friends Alice and Bob in 3.1, but then saw that they return in later sections. It might be good to name the example users consistently. From nobody Wed Mar 4 06:38:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5803A100D; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 06:38:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=yTFsHs0N; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=W4ueK+o0 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4xoiBlonPTZk; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 06:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB2A13A100A; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 06:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049654FF; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 04 Mar 2020 09:38:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm2; bh=z v2xfBvzCtar9l0l0F9BYkuEce7dR8rVSlJMPUDoKL0=; b=yTFsHs0Nb12xvxzVu RaLKHx/C/yX+uRyk4RUqesunZhzQGNmNlFpPOC91LL7J2AojJNJbhtwPdtRhhFK+ X2+AbzoeG/ciZX/s1o4hb8uEfPiZKZlprSn2mGZDNBwx+Shjg3+iXsokuz3Yf3tP gWuf+ts1o5WXuwEll1g342KQxmnmnG6C/Pcb0EVJjdvHIl8ts38YHE7E2er220U2 rH0fIFBNf9XDkJ3i7OFPcKk0rP2tB5eGS2CDFfioLzhEPJnmTka2SVBC5sgqOC8e IdKEoxPg/njTDiwXbqBn8je2LbqR4J+2dv6bQ7EMT2UOHkqAnderNhlggZg8WxXA AFopQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=zv2xfBvzCtar9l0l0F9BYkuEce7dR8rVSlJMPUDoK L0=; b=W4ueK+o0VRUVnKEx3Iqitpm3GHDxX12ukMXVORAJ/oFkMQgZjKC+a9U1B bUM2wfT2TCWGy+vUlRn8ThPsX3dsZBt+e99eZXP7v+g4P8z17l3EWY+fQrNG8/vA YIU7gdGycTOn5eKetF6IUKOcqQbyykDFVPXbZzB3lOBJJ7lr0zZiRy3sfx9DMUAH sfUvB/IwyUAtYxYwm4cbovoPw9uBzUpo0dJq1zQs9ZoN4a6/VWL8IYk0XkiwRF5t RKIBf9VNV5DsLucoIX4LRCD27Y2gM2T0tvmHqaaMEboncb1Xwj5ite4ZtK5r6thb SIh26KfPspWC7fnBTiAbiGkbduLtw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtkedgieejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhs shgrucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrg hinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedujeefrdefkedruddujedrjedunecuvehluhhs thgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghlihhsshgrsegtoh hophgvrhifrdhinh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.71]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 020493280060; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:38:12 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <158109060108.11593.18381186607321338415@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0500 Cc: General Area Review Team , draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <15CEC62E-97B3-47F8-A497-061EB0A03BCE@cooperw.in> References: <158109060108.11593.18381186607321338415@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04 X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 14:38:24 -0000 Robert, thanks for your review. Authors, I see that the changes have = been applied =E2=80=94 thanks. I entered a Yes ballot. Alissa > On Feb 7, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Robert Sparks via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Robert Sparks > Review result: Ready with Nits >=20 > This is a combined genart and secdir last-call review. > Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04 > Reviewer: Robert Sparks > Review Date: 2020-02-07 > IETF LC End Date: 2020-02-12 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >=20 > Summary: Ready (but with nits) for publication as an Informational RFC >=20 > This document provides a set of high-level requirements for a DNS-SD > privacy exptension, and discussion motivating those requirements. >=20 > Comment: > It might be good to call out in the discussion that while it is = intended > to be thorough, it's not possible to be exhaustive. >=20 > Nits (editorial, in document order): >=20 > The last sentence of the first paragraph of the introduction is = complex. > Consider breaking it apart. >=20 > In the introduction at "When analyzing these scenarios in Section = 3.2", > did you mean Section 3.1? >=20 > In the first sentence of 3.2 at "the scenarios in Section 2", did you > mean Section 3.1? >=20 > At the first sentence in 3.4.4, at "online" did you mean "on-link"? >=20 > The statement in the second paragraph of section 4 is perhaps too = strong. > Consider changing "will lead" to "are intended to lead". >=20 > The item numbering in sections 4.1 and 4.2 are messsed up. >=20 > The intent of the next to last paragraph in 4.1 and the last paragraph = in 4.2 > could be made more clear. I suggest something like: "When listing and = resolving > services in current DNS-SD deployments". >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Mar 4 08:31:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE8D3A124D for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:31:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfCoh0EdqlRT for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5FE63A124E for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse305.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.51] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx105.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9WvH-0008lM-Pw for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 17:31:12 +0100 Received: from xsmtp22.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.61]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48XfWn4XXkz47sQ for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.13] (helo=xmail03.myhosting.com) by xsmtp22.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9WvF-00065M-GU for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 08:31:01 -0800 Received: (qmail 7322 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2020 16:31:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.107]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail03.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 4 Mar 2020 16:31:01 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Christian Huitema Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:31:00 -0800 Message-Id: <07EB7AEA-C414-4C2C-B449-9D2029FB3852@huitema.net> References: <158333256222.29390.7571480971121506054@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: The IESG , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <158333256222.29390.7571480971121506054@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Alissa Cooper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.51 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: ham X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.04) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0dyF9K2ilaF/JaNUYHaAo6qpSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVho25V4iwch1E XjaMlGuK7kTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDoeDwbaJnZ2TaZhv/Bk6d8Jj9 EvBvwu01uVCaGVBWGqvxMhZorJvcr0DHEAJ0rFcK2rBNMmEsKEibQwSU1xBeOHButNDpi1WUXRkr He1vFsZaZad0VL/QynhFAlbT36L827A0We4Px3ZtIg26LaXLKAZ6weYgSzquK2hxskqXvy8DAJpT 4kpe4kNrctp48w4V1bQ9QP0oow/8SSNNF7oHa3y6i7D2mE046g9MgVta3xDquuFaG9Grr0IfWrye uuHp9xvM70vt2eYKeqO3TxjBD57KuHNaaKdg7iBEZefdsNViNNTu0e7IruXKZTH9VSxKZke5naW7 GR6a0ag3FlRCpOj/Ao+8UDmpPC8FqxW1LPT55flm9wQsIgqzrrcX9yhUVgW9/bktU41htiJ8fk7N kNhDlN3ZFexZfYgAG9qTPTrzvgwP9cMw+lye/qXkeuruM49zcQbne4vePgcv4iEyyps9zSZic0xN U+sMoNUh1wvQ8xprr+ug7A4DZ+7OQLu7oBpdWj8QLYr5sN4Ugz0te1pz0qbBCYZncRSjSNuDOBSh nJWj57cNhf7KkzliAIHWGlU4PSngKJoJ6shQV+KVUWkvZ+pWP1s35neRYWMQUWZErSs0X3oyoTc8 j/o7qulxwA6MFW+GjcAf08xzc9uwvGre/hsBBxzR0ZxLcHZ9dOiryrcbxF1ckr8jaBjIsrBCw3w7 pP4k/sr5lCJzSd2gGUstzZkoLPdHmQi52IQXptuL4vSJnEVLkY+6qZ79FraOfqb5R4VemuUI6bcE ARsm0De6PaZO6/JToEyx4tmc5OljkPSpPXAVjl2oMr8a1xm0wfXUFMjTH2DyD8i5kO5bZlYFvf25 LVONYbYifH5OzZCwIgD/xDehea09OpnwSuobZrrGExMR7eTbBjMGDKI3ijhhJn7Muv/NHXl0o++8 3wM= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Alissa Cooper's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:31:18 -0000 Hello Alissa, There is some history in the ascii art. It was created first for a presentat= ion in the DNSSD working group, with names chosen to engage the attention of= key participants in the group. Yes, David and Stuart could be renamed Alice= and Bob, and the guy with the hat Eve. But that would lose some of the hist= ory. Also, I would have to redraw the ASCII art to suggest gender. Not so ea= sy. -- Christian Huitema=20 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 6:36 AM, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFAlissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: Yes >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I was missing our old friends Alice and Bob in 3.1, but then saw that they= > return in later sections. It might be good to name the example users > consistently. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dnssd mailing list > dnssd@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd From nobody Wed Mar 4 08:35:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0063A11CF; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:35:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.276, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nSWghsOs2CQ2; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42F963A119F; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.121.48] (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 024GZ6FN065486 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Mar 2020 10:35:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1583339708; bh=IY8lVnBuvB70Wa1godhSAp++C8Z7wnjCKPSIuoEWjuw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=NtIEuHYH2u0f2m5d0DsKP7rHhzwf8Dd1/ocNFjsgwE6ib8zeQZ210ZFMkWfKzodqg ooNOv3RT0AFYtX3/66pWof0O4gMKOpkBUIJxkauFszMy4s7HvDjI8DbL9oelp78HTQ l0da8/IX5CI4ZL7Hax5r7o16yQ+vB5oyLV6uzLto= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be [172.17.121.48] To: Christian Huitema , Alissa Cooper Cc: dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org References: <158333256222.29390.7571480971121506054@ietfa.amsl.com> <07EB7AEA-C414-4C2C-B449-9D2029FB3852@huitema.net> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <80e20b51-a189-5357-0c8b-b9d51b886910@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 10:34:59 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <07EB7AEA-C414-4C2C-B449-9D2029FB3852@huitema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Alissa Cooper's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:35:18 -0000 On 3/4/2020 10:31 AM, Christian Huitema wrote: > Also, I would have to redraw the ASCII art to suggest gender. That doesn't seem strictly necessary. It's 2020, and I'm pretty certain I saw a woman wearing pants just the other day. /a From nobody Wed Mar 4 08:39:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC263A129B; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:39:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=buZqcw97; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=yCjgRgpd Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nq_2VHHQNJmq; 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Wed, 4 Mar 2020 16:39:11 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Christian Huitema , Alissa Cooper CC: "dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com" , "dnssd@ietf.org" , "dnssd-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dnssd] Alissa Cooper's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHV8kJj/7cLMuvv5UGvhpcxwKdoaag4sxoA Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 16:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158333256222.29390.7571480971121506054@ietfa.amsl.com> <07EB7AEA-C414-4C2C-B449-9D2029FB3852@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: <07EB7AEA-C414-4C2C-B449-9D2029FB3852@huitema.net> Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.22.0.200209 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:3cb4:f808:2fec:95a2] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7a41a353-4881-4a63-6c17-08d7c05a9134 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1802: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.17] (helo=xmail07.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9XBU-0004Ei-MI for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 08:47:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 18112 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2020 16:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.107]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail07.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 4 Mar 2020 16:47:48 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Christian Huitema Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 08:47:47 -0800 Message-Id: References: <80e20b51-a189-5357-0c8b-b9d51b886910@nostrum.com> Cc: Alissa Cooper , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <80e20b51-a189-5357-0c8b-b9d51b886910@nostrum.com> To: Adam Roach X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.252 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:47:58 -0000 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Adam Roach wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 3/4/2020 10:31 AM, Christian Huitema wrote: >> Also, I would have to redraw the ASCII art to suggest gender. >=20 >=20 > That doesn't seem strictly necessary. It's 2020, and I'm pretty certain I s= aw a woman wearing pants just the other day. I was not thinking about dresses, but rather visual cues like the ponytail o= r Megan characters in xkcd. But really I would like to not erase the dnssd h= istory. -- Christian Huitema=20= From nobody Wed Mar 4 09:44:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4A93A136F; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:44:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=LNBjvDgr; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=1rMZyaa4 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvoWJ3Z0Ab5f; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CC703A1371; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E6889D; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:44:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 04 Mar 2020 12:44:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm2; bh=B U8qY1XixQTlBk3FGRB+J+EMgs4CcKwAKx589QOabb4=; b=LNBjvDgrRK3XLpCDT kGpDJWLDVhIFI1BZM9ye5LEgN4rKEowdJ7l8PXj3cAOqOgBCrKossNzijROj/hP8 BHDearfpp2EAnyQSDELzYsW/Z04R8rhc+thKCtpEqIhPDDWgcE95bQNd1KAVzKLq NiNKY0cW5qMbZuLoGQp0HHdNCrgyoEJhGxyF/mAwZlGvhzTGHC6pT8dvnEl00Y6z u+3tcS4gX6fguieMP+k1e9Dv0iqEg1C5PkgEZo5pd982L1Yhri0hrmufjt7bRQ/Q rLG1GhUzbdTdmXyha8/VAnS5Mnb88GXD4mqhZtm0Sh9DIXlwk59zBnfniBnOF0q5 pbvmQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=BU8qY1XixQTlBk3FGRB+J+EMgs4CcKwAKx589QOab b4=; b=1rMZyaa4yfBz4NEaJv73y6qhHL9L9XnvXEK3uDC9rf+VOq5WzCmhLBcs2 qJ17fMj/9lDO0xkmoRKaXNaFunb0fCgoYX9RHCGj9TObmRGUeDY2WGqZkiyTKmYV 1GHkusBR233dDQQ+UL1gS8COI1MmZK4Ei8zpZZy9vAEoCES4RwknnFyEQDO7ll+u Cxd8arIaeYIZN7STPwXHedT3oh9juvh2RDN6FYP5j6M+W7BH9f0CumdSilB6CVK3 LaiQuE0mLmG0p/m0WLFjNbq4gwva/te2dTHB7/pfr/gC4TOQdnhS/rfX3yADxEpa m10bvQD7J/fZ6F6PyUXmdD6Pfp6BA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedruddtkedguddthecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpegtggfuhfgjfffgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhhi shhsrgcuvehoohhpvghruceorghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgvrhifrdhinheqnecukfhppe dujeefrdefkedruddujedrieehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghm pehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghlihhsshgrsegtohhophgvrhifrdhinh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from dhcp-10-150-9-196.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.65]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4F9C03061393; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:44:46 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:44:46 -0500 Cc: Adam Roach , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, IESG , draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <44E68A44-C132-4184-93F4-2A15245E8546@cooperw.in> References: <80e20b51-a189-5357-0c8b-b9d51b886910@nostrum.com> To: Christian Huitema X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Alissa Cooper's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 17:44:53 -0000 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Christian Huitema = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 4, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Adam Roach wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFOn 3/4/2020 10:31 AM, Christian Huitema wrote: >>> Also, I would have to redraw the ASCII art to suggest gender. >>=20 >>=20 >> That doesn't seem strictly necessary. It's 2020, and I'm pretty = certain I saw a woman wearing pants just the other day. >=20 > I was not thinking about dresses, but rather visual cues like the = ponytail or Megan characters in xkcd. But really I would like to not = erase the dnssd history. No worries about changing it, was just something I noticed. Alissa >=20 > -- Christian Huitema=20 From nobody Wed Mar 4 12:58:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23583A0871; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 12:58:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <158335552877.29262.18187945718837766095@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 12:58:48 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 20:58:49 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for this document. Kuddos on the amazing ASCII art. ** Section 3.1.1. Per “Identifying devices leads to identifying people, either just for tracking people or as a preliminary to targeted attacks.”, this didn’t parse for me and the intent of the “just for tracking people” wasn’t clear. Is the following the intent: “Identifying devices can lead to identifying people, either for surveillance of these individuals in the physical world or as a preliminary step for a targeted cyber attack.” ** Section 3.1.2. Per “The requirement in that scenario is that the discovery activity should not disclose the identify of either the client or the server”, is something stronger more desirable? For example, is there any desire to thwart the discovery of the “business and social interactions” between the device owners? ** Section 3.1.3 It seems as if all of the same challenges of Section 3.1.1 “identifying people” and using the information for a “targeted attack” apply here too (but it’s said in a different way). Is it worth link the same issues across scenarios? ** Section 3.2. Per “Information conveyed via multicast messages can be obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages are only available to MITM attackers.”, please clarify why a passive on-link attacker can’t see the unicast messages? ** Section 3.2.5. Per “This combination of services and attributes will often be sufficient to identify the version of the software running on a device”, makes sense. Is it worth adding that with this information and traffic analysis, you might also be able to get identity (track people). From nobody Wed Mar 4 14:34:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE1C3A0AD8 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:34:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id APJD3VClzk3Y for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E22E3A0AD3 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse398.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.144] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx19.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9bOD-00028O-Uo for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 22:17:19 +0100 Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48Xmsz48bPz4Klg for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 13:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.17] (helo=xmail07.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9bOB-0005Xt-ER for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 13:17:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 26186 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2020 21:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail07.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 4 Mar 2020 21:17:10 -0000 To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" , Barry Leiba Cc: David Schinazi , "dnssd@ietf.org" , "dnssd-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org" , Stuart Cheshire References: <158267919299.11026.3193133978474704307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <640b12c8-a4be-0c0a-6760-e7fa02364fb7@huitema.net> From: Christian Huitema Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 22:34:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1297034953CF1368E5E306A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I prepared a PR that applies the changes that Barry suggested: https://github.com/huitema/dnssd-privreq/pull/14 Mostly this is straightforward, but there are two potential issues: 1. I placed MDNS and DNSSD as normative references. Are there other references that should be classified as such? 2. Barry observed that using MDNS as the reference for sleep proxies was very loose, and he is right. The problem is that there are very few good publications describing sleep proxies. When I searched that, I mostly got references to specs by Intel or Apple that were shared with implementers under NDA. I found an old web page by Stuart Cheshire describing the sleep proxy on the MAC and I used that, but I would prefer an open spec or an academic reference. Of course, I am waiting for the end of the IESG review before publishing a new draft, but since the cut-off is this Monday I am trying to not waste time. -- Christian Huitema On 2/27/2020 9:04 AM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote: > Christian, Daniel, > > Based on the IESG statement below, please update the document (after th= e telechat) to include those references as normative. > > Thank you > > -=C3=A9ric > > =EF=BB=BF-----Original Message----- > From: iesg on behalf of Barry Leiba > Date: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 at 17:49 > To: Christian Huitema > Cc: David Schinazi , "dnssd@ietf.org" , "dnssd-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [dnssd] Barry Leiba's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (= with COMMENT) > > Thanks, Christian, and I appreciate your quick response. > =20 > > I am not enthusiastic about "normative references in informationa= l > > documents". I will wait for Eric's advice on that one, assuming t= hat he > > will carry the IESG consensus on that topic. > =20 > =C3=89ric and I will discuss it. Meanwhile, I'll note that the IES= G said > this in 2006: https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/nor= mative-informative-references/ > =20 > "Normative references specify documents that must be read to > understand or implement the technology in the new RFC, or whose > technology must be present for the technology in the new RFC to wor= k." > =20 > and > =20 > "Note 3: The normative/informative distinction is relevant in any > document that amounts to a technical specification, even if its > intended status is Experimental or Informational." > =20 > Barry > =20 > =20 > > _______________________________________________ > dnssd mailing list > dnssd@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd --------------1297034953CF1368E5E306A5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I prepared a PR that applies the changes that Barry suggested: https://github.com/huitema/dnssd-privreq/pull/1= 4

Mostly this is straightforward, but there are two potential issues:

  1. I placed MDNS and DNSSD as normative references. Are there other references that should be classified as such?

  2. Barry observed that using MDNS as the reference for sleep proxies was very loose, and he is right. The problem is that there are very few good publications describing sleep proxies. When I searched that, I mostly got references to specs by Intel or Apple that were shared with implementers under NDA. I found an old web page by Stuart Cheshire describing the sleep proxy on the MAC and I used that, but I would prefer an open spec or an academic reference.

Of course, I am waiting for the end of the IESG review before publishing a new draft, but since the cut-off is this Monday I am trying to not waste time.

-- Christian Huitema

On 2/27/2020 9:04 AM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
Christian, Daniel,

Based on the IESG statement below, please update the document (after the =
telechat) to include those references as normative.

Thank you

-=C3=A9ric

=EF=BB=BF-----Original Message-----
From: iesg <iesg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Barry Leiba &=
lt;barryleiba@computer.org>
Date: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 at 17:49
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Cc: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, "dnssd@ietf.org"=
 <dn=
ssd@ietf.org>, "dnssd-chairs@ietf.org" <dnssd-chairs@ietf.o=
rg>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-dnssd-prir=
eq@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dnssd] Barry Leiba's Yes on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (wi=
th COMMENT)

    Thanks, Christian, and I appreciate your quick response.
   =20
    > I am not enthusiastic about "normative references in information=
al
    > documents". I will wait for Eric's advice on that one, assuming =
that he
    > will carry the IESG consensus on that topic.
   =20
    =C3=89ric and I will discuss it.  Meanwhile, I'll note that the IESG =
said
    this in 2006: =
https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/normative-informative-r=
eferences/
   =20
    "Normative references specify documents that must be read to
    understand or implement the technology in the new RFC, or whose
    technology must be present for the technology in the new RFC to work.=
"
   =20
    and
   =20
    "Note 3: The normative/informative distinction is relevant in any
    document that amounts to a technical specification, even if its
    intended status is Experimental or Informational."
   =20
    Barry
   =20
   =20

_______________________________________________
dnssd mailing list
dnss=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd
--------------1297034953CF1368E5E306A5-- From nobody Wed Mar 4 20:50:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11383A0BDB; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 20:50:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Adam Roach via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Adam Roach Message-ID: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 20:50:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 04:50:03 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 3.2: > Information conveyed via multicast messages can be > obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages are only > available to MITM attackers. I don’t think this is accurate. Given that many of the environments under consideration (e.g., airport WiFi) use unencrypted wireless transmission combined with a captive portal. In these cases, an eavesdropper on the same channel can snoop on even unicast traffic without mounting an MITM attack. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- General: The document speaks of randomization of identifiers, including those commonly used by users to identify which services they want to connect to. While the current state of affairs may list a directory such as: • Adam’s iPhone • David’s Google Pixel 3 • Alice’s Laptop (allowing me to select something based on its published name) This document seems to propose a future state where such directories are instead presented as: • {da566203-0320-4604-aa14-f58ae7bea00c} • {6c0952a5-a573-4d92-9d4a-a4bc111a35d8} • {785bed6b-1355-4e7e-ad57-b5ce27e83e56} I find it a bit surprising that this document doesn’t include at least a cursory mention of the difficulty users may have in device rendezvous under such a scheme and potential solutions to such issues (e.g., using RFID or QR codes to provide pairing information). From nobody Wed Mar 4 21:40:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DABC63A0CCE; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:40:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.276, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yFYRqvE3ibfr; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 639F43A0CC5; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.121.48] (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 0255dvJK097632 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 4 Mar 2020 23:39:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1583386799; bh=0+WQO9gQ5ZwxU3vC9Deb1mDXbpCFZsx3gHu6XjfI98k=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ViaK2nPZe8qiM5xtcdQUYNMGFwpsjowbYtAh2f6SVR5Anh7a9VM3gD7dYPcsAlkSr BZnxISC4v4Ocexw065t43/5h/G5TCaJIECCvkpMICbHw09W+9oIyrlh+160OMMXyOg GRGjEtXtN6qmBHhKpk/1qnAvi0JI1m6W7wBvE9hs= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be [172.17.121.48] To: Christian Huitema , The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi References: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> <681d3976-c141-2f7d-51da-40c49dd9de5b@huitema.net> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <9dbcf43c-cd04-08a2-29e4-d4716922372d@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 23:39:51 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <681d3976-c141-2f7d-51da-40c49dd9de5b@huitema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 05:40:08 -0000 On 3/4/2020 11:22 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > On 3/4/2020 8:50 PM, Adam Roach via Datatracker wrote: >> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Section 3.2: >> >>> Information conveyed via multicast messages can be >>> obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages are only >>> available to MITM attackers. >> I don’t think this is accurate. Given that many of the environments under >> consideration (e.g., airport WiFi) use unencrypted wireless transmission >> combined with a captive portal. In these cases, an eavesdropper on the same >> channel can snoop on even unicast traffic without mounting an MITM attack. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> General: >> >> The document speaks of randomization of identifiers, including those commonly >> used by users to identify which services they want to connect to. While the >> current state of affairs may list a directory such as: >> >> • Adam’s iPhone >> • David’s Google Pixel 3 >> • Alice’s Laptop >> >> (allowing me to select something based on its published name) >> >> This document seems to propose a future state where such directories are >> instead presented as: >> >> • {da566203-0320-4604-aa14-f58ae7bea00c} >> • {6c0952a5-a573-4d92-9d4a-a4bc111a35d8} >> • {785bed6b-1355-4e7e-ad57-b5ce27e83e56} >> >> I find it a bit surprising that this document doesn’t include at least a >> cursory mention of the difficulty users may have in device rendezvous under >> such a scheme and potential solutions to such issues (e.g., using RFID or QR >> codes to provide pairing information). > Adam, > > I wonder were in the document you saw that? It's implicit in the entire subject matter, and quite explicit in section 4.2: "Servers must avoid publishing static identifiers such as host names or service names.  When those fields are required by the protocol, servers should publish randomized values." > We started this discussion many years ago with a specific protocol > proposal, which did indeed include presentations such as list of GUIDs. > However, there was a significant difference: if the publishing device > was known to you and you had exchanged credentials, then you would see > the name in the clear, instead of the cryptic text. The initial proposal > did include ways to enable quick pairing in order to exchange > credentials, just like you suggest. > > It turns out that the DNSSD working group was not ready to standardize a > protocol like that. The main reasons is that designing such protocols > requires a number of trade-offs between usability, management, network > resource and computing resource. An example of trade-off would be > whether trial decryption was considered OK: it simplifies the design and > the operation, at the cost of a high computing load. The initial > proposal was making specific trade-offs, but these did not get consensus. Sure. I recognize that this document is at a higher level than that, and wouldn't expect that level of detail as much as a one- or two-sentence treatment (or perhaps a bit more) that captures the general shape of such solutions. Specifically _because_ the document says to replace server names with "randomized values," I think it's incumbent on it to _at least_ mention the issues that arise from doing so, and to vaguely wave at how those issues might be addressed (in a non-exhaustive way, using examples). /a From nobody Wed Mar 4 21:49:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558F13A0D42 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:49:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UFHPLluVXsTI for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F1773A0D40 for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse177.mail2web.com ([66.113.196.177] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx17.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9iyJ-000724-G6 for dnssd@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Mar 2020 06:23:02 +0100 Received: from xsmtp22.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.61]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48XzfR4tt2z54nf for ; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 21:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.15] (helo=xmail05.myhosting.com) by xsmtp22.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9iyF-0002s4-I9 for dnssd@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Mar 2020 21:22:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 11094 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2020 05:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail05.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 5 Mar 2020 05:22:55 -0000 To: Adam Roach , The IESG Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi References: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Christian Huitema Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 05:49:20 -0000 On 3/4/2020 8:50 PM, Adam Roach via Datatracker wrote: > Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this= > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.ht= ml > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Section 3.2: > >> Information conveyed via multicast messages can be >> obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages are only >> available to MITM attackers. > I don=E2=80=99t think this is accurate. Given that many of the environm= ents under > consideration (e.g., airport WiFi) use unencrypted wireless transmissio= n > combined with a captive portal. In these cases, an eavesdropper on the = same > channel can snoop on even unicast traffic without mounting an MITM atta= ck. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > General: > > The document speaks of randomization of identifiers, including those co= mmonly > used by users to identify which services they want to connect to. While= the > current state of affairs may list a directory such as: > > =E2=80=A2 Adam=E2=80=99s iPhone > =E2=80=A2 David=E2=80=99s Google Pixel 3 > =E2=80=A2 Alice=E2=80=99s Laptop > > (allowing me to select something based on its published name) > > This document seems to propose a future state where such directories ar= e > instead presented as: > > =E2=80=A2 {da566203-0320-4604-aa14-f58ae7bea00c} > =E2=80=A2 {6c0952a5-a573-4d92-9d4a-a4bc111a35d8} > =E2=80=A2 {785bed6b-1355-4e7e-ad57-b5ce27e83e56} > > I find it a bit surprising that this document doesn=E2=80=99t include a= t least a > cursory mention of the difficulty users may have in device rendezvous u= nder > such a scheme and potential solutions to such issues (e.g., using RFID = or QR > codes to provide pairing information). Adam, I wonder were in the document you saw that? We started this discussion many years ago with a specific protocol proposal, which did indeed include presentations such as list of GUIDs. However, there was a significant difference: if the publishing device was known to you and you had exchanged credentials, then you would see the name in the clear, instead of the cryptic text. The initial proposal did include ways to enable quick pairing in order to exchange credentials, just like you suggest. It turns out that the DNSSD working group was not ready to standardize a protocol like that. The main reasons is that designing such protocols requires a number of trade-offs between usability, management, network resource and computing resource. An example of trade-off would be whether trial decryption was considered OK: it simplifies the design and the operation, at the cost of a high computing load. The initial proposal was making specific trade-offs, but these did not get consensus.= That's why we have the document that we have today. We focused on presenting the privacy requirements, and stayed well clear of proposing specific solutions. I think we have been thorough. The requirements did get consensus in the working group. I expect that we will see proposed solutions in the future. Maybe several solutions, with different trade-offs. But I also believe that having well stated requirements is useful, if only to draw attention on the privacy issues in many current deployments. -- Christian Huitema From nobody Wed Mar 4 22:04:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052C73A0D85; Wed, 4 Mar 2020 22:04:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, dnssd@ietf.org, David Schinazi , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.119.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158338827200.29413.5100659595596762657@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2020 22:04:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 06:04:32 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 1 connected to the same network. Consider for example a traveler wanting to upload pictures from a phone to a laptop when connected to the Wi-Fi network of an Internet cafe, or two travelers who want to [both devices are on the same Wi-Fi, right?] Disclosing Information In this document "disclosing information" is also focused on disclosure by data conveyed via messages on the service discovery protocol layer. This is generic non-identity but still potentially sensitive data, right? Section 3.2 kinds of means for making DNS-SD resource records available. These means comprise but are not limited to mDNS [RFC6762], DNS servers ([RFC1033] [RFC1034], [RFC1035]), e.g. using SRP [I-D.ietf-dnssd-srp], and multi-link [RFC7558] networks. nit: this "e.g." seems out of place. Section 3.2.2 There is, of course, also no authentication requirement to claim a particular instance name, so an active attacker can provide resources that claim to be Alice's but are not. Section 3.3.2 This sort of problem frequently ends up with a third-party "trusted introducer", though it's not clear that mentioning this in the document will add value. 3.4.2 I'm given to understand that for many radio technologies, multicast is both effectively broadcast and has specific spectrum requirements/properties that make it especially scarce, compared to unicast spectrum. From nobody Thu Mar 5 13:52:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D7E3A0CA4 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:52:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sVJzwJFyXQMm for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF42F3A0CBA for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse435.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.181] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx168.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9yPw-000azz-G2 for dnssd@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Mar 2020 22:52:34 +0100 Received: from xsmtp22.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.61]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48YPcH3RZWz78wC for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.49] (helo=xmail11.myhosting.com) by xsmtp22.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j9yPv-0003MU-Bh for dnssd@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:52:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 1150 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2020 21:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail11.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 5 Mar 2020 21:52:30 -0000 To: Adam Roach , The IESG Cc: David Schinazi , dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org References: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> <681d3976-c141-2f7d-51da-40c49dd9de5b@huitema.net> <9dbcf43c-cd04-08a2-29e4-d4716922372d@nostrum.com> From: Christian Huitema Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; 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WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9dbcf43c-cd04-08a2-29e4-d4716922372d@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.181 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.13) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0dyF9K2ilaF/JaNUYHaAo6qpSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVaXLXlT6x3unA pnd4l+Z+e0TNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDoeDwbaJnZ2TaZhv/Bk6d8Jj9 EvBvwu01uVCaGVBWGquc26dvvYwtpC+/b2oO5+al2rBNMmEsKEibQwSU1xBeOHButNDpi1WUXRkr He1vFsZaZad0VL/QynhFAlbT36L8w1wK8/Yyyr4pYC+V2mZdJwZ6weYgSzquK2hxskqXvy8woCTx LKweTbuJ+19zsyHVGVmhMAaQ/AfCRwRe7yHm5oY+NYmsSGn+svMubxnbgm1cr18FZBEPC2/c16Xd 7sC9aC4xteE1WLqGS9YoqrsZ2DyteN0e+ECCv9/f+GPymkgDVo7QBKA4MctKq4ifYPcXFRL2K3LA EfDXVOdt7wDbusYnuEVWSxKMHbU0zkNM3EElFDaoLuOPKc8gc82pKfhB7T02ZXdoQxMs//iOE4Fl hiCv9TR+UxzLZWL8hwGBjhoI3W+YcuHfP5PkZb5A+wE5qGdpH54Oa3V8I76VOEvlwIVUdYndRiyh yQb8o5SNcNSpUco9MJ9ix4aaI27G6iMItK+056Z5kUOVoW5YGpuAIf0MCd6Fdo7XNd/HWQNcEV4v UwPy3x0FYtCNEb10sHyQCLHEvD1OqP6bgZ4L66GcgBg66gs5OuzYxJgw5atIxeNDvjI/CYe5WPy0 +t1RP0azI/QKtgvVN4NQnMxAyK1BYZxMPnetLBJMh51NiRRoHIDC69f9UDVvTRlGqUTwPSaomiK7 x42VjdzChZMe6O/Did+/hGXTmfhE+Dx2/NyzMXptcQ4DMP15GyIZ02OEMWzrvOnCUbNPgcPcQwzM gKHyQxUo+ql2ySTkvEFH/23XMww2BnTTFGX5/yI4Ky+1ZJcbGqc5H4PEZHeoI/d6LWFf332z7LMw LGdoi9FMQ5j9dQUvMi1YKAun15JQSJLyCT5k+MTObVKxHy/dols381l9r9ft9daDonlwd6LnuX+J u10= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 21:52:41 -0000 On 3/4/2020 9:39 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > On 3/4/2020 11:22 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: >> On 3/4/2020 8:50 PM, Adam Roach via Datatracker wrote: >>> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all= >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut th= is >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to >>> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Information conveyed via multicast messages can be >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages= are only >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 available to MITM attackers. >>> I don=E2=80=99t think this is accurate. Given that many of the enviro= nments >>> under >>> consideration (e.g., airport WiFi) use unencrypted wireless >>> transmission >>> combined with a captive portal. In these cases, an eavesdropper on >>> the same >>> channel can snoop on even unicast traffic without mounting an MITM >>> attack. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - >>> >>> General: >>> >>> The document speaks of randomization of identifiers, including those >>> commonly >>> used by users to identify which services they want to connect to. >>> While the >>> current state of affairs may list a directory such as: >>> >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Adam=E2=80=99s iPhone >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 David=E2=80=99s Google = Pixel 3 >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Alice=E2=80=99s Laptop >>> >>> (allowing me to select something based on its published name) >>> >>> This document seems to propose a future state where such directories >>> are >>> instead presented as: >>> >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 {da566203-0320-4604-aa1= 4-f58ae7bea00c} >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 {6c0952a5-a573-4d92-9d4= a-a4bc111a35d8} >>> =E2=80=A2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 {785bed6b-1355-4e7e-ad5= 7-b5ce27e83e56} >>> >>> I find it a bit surprising that this document doesn=E2=80=99t include= at >>> least a >>> cursory mention of the difficulty users may have in device >>> rendezvous under >>> such a scheme and potential solutions to such issues (e.g., using >>> RFID or QR >>> codes to provide pairing information). >> Adam, >> >> I wonder were in the document you saw that? > > > It's implicit in the entire subject matter, and quite explicit in > section 4.2: "Servers must avoid publishing static identifiers such as > host names or service names.=C2=A0 When those fields are required by th= e > protocol, servers should publish randomized values." Note that there is a distinction between host names and service names. One of the privacy issues with DNSSD is that it requires the participants to publish a host name in MDNS. That host name does not need to be visible with the list of available services, the service names are supposed to be self describing. It could be randomized without creating much usability issues. > > >> We started this discussion many years ago with a specific protocol >> proposal, which did indeed include presentations such as list of GUIDs= =2E >> However, there was a significant difference: if the publishing device >> was known to you and you had exchanged credentials, then you would see= >> the name in the clear, instead of the cryptic text. The initial propos= al >> did include ways to enable quick pairing in order to exchange >> credentials, just like you suggest. >> >> It turns out that the DNSSD working group was not ready to standardize= a >> protocol like that. The main reasons is that designing such protocols >> requires a number of trade-offs between usability, management, network= >> resource and computing resource. An example of trade-off would be >> whether trial decryption was considered OK: it simplifies the design a= nd >> the operation, at the cost of a high computing load. The initial >> proposal was making specific trade-offs, but these did not get >> consensus. > > > Sure. I recognize that this document is at a higher level than that, > and wouldn't expect that level of detail as much as a one- or > two-sentence treatment (or perhaps a bit more) that captures the > general shape of such solutions. Specifically _because_ the document > says to replace server names with "randomized values," I think it's > incumbent on it to _at least_ mention the issues that arise from doing > so, and to vaguely wave at how those issues might be addressed (in a > non-exhaustive way, using examples). I will try to enter a short text along these lines. At a high level, this is the classic tension between usability and security... -- Christian Huitema From nobody Fri Mar 6 11:42:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE843A088D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 11:42:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqlX1JKkiwCh for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 11:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DB403A089D for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 11:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse267.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.13] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx37.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jAIrS-0002mN-2W for dnssd@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2020 20:42:20 +0100 Received: from xsmtp21.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.60]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48YygX40Bhz1sB9 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 11:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.2.16] (helo=xmail06.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jAIrQ-0001E8-EM for dnssd@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2020 11:42:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 8226 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2020 19:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail06.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 6 Mar 2020 19:42:15 -0000 From: Christian Huitema To: Adam Roach , The IESG Cc: David Schinazi , dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org References: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> <681d3976-c141-2f7d-51da-40c49dd9de5b@huitema.net> <9dbcf43c-cd04-08a2-29e4-d4716922372d@nostrum.com> <00c54c9f-de3c-ff14-6dfe-c404b1c6c2f8@huitema.net> Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; 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WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00c54c9f-de3c-ff14-6dfe-c404b1c6c2f8@huitema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.13 X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0dyF9K2ilaF/JaNUYHaAo6qpSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVUZbR67CQ7/vm /hHDJU4RXkTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDoeDwbaJnZ2TaZhv/Bk6d8Jj9 EvBvwu01uVCaGVBWGqufuzTTrkf9y/9+MTyMzIVt2rBNMmEsKEibQwSU1xBeOHButNDpi1WUXRkr He1vFsYm1aGKgRFqmjZjxZofiz4rc0IkROma4leeWKFOaFAwGLyme9ldZJ7uNXfg/GfS8fUvP/L5 rCqHDsKZM+xa1iwJX+gRCHfMVnsAk591zk0uilUI+ZL4xWiN8NS6C+dmX6OEdA4u1aThyWrQ/ou2 +v/lmX4Em37yFgrCB6NHRn1g+f3uncIqYSL3lhh5c81YyJqFoLZMmkWsaurVZfvqROaDnDtHb8z5 dpPkEuJ8Snwqla7jUnW3hy14Yji8fo+4xCnSRo4Rcu5Z37rMuDjCny5fE9ykbJ7I9co1MAEE3ruN Xsm8UJsAPvDcVSKtDCYkioPY5Qx4fJOk03R5fJtf/Dv/dkIzS7m4GUpXCY1Y3j3ileQtX44ad09m ARiBoFHKYOvLqhdh3uCVOPRrirlGor+JtZXsUt+aEO93ereIYi9AdZB/EQD1IdpgnD/tCFN9baEv UwPy3x0FYtCNEb10sHyQCLHEvD1OqP6bgZ4L66GcgBg66gs5OuzYxJgw5atIxeNDvjI/CYe5WPy0 +t1RP0azsLB6o1J9hfi4FkOqNk56JZxMPnetLBJMh51NiRRoHIDChI0n2zqid34TckfjqG3wmiK7 x42VjdzChZMe6O/DiWiiIzuXMTE3l4bIsk+O50ulczgowJJ645D/46b5SKt808QV3No+S2msRDep v5w/kkG0v17AmegcpQ0tml/sN9lmMy/o83jVXTcfb9k0nLWblJy7uxV6dw8jzlsaNZe6hynMJcjx DydxsJEju76A7X1QIVydqXpZ6MHhiKws9Iiut28r9wo4SqUIg8Yh9hAM0n3LLzx/F2gT3wl8JQJv Bho= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 19:42:25 -0000 Adam, I propose adding the following text to 4.2:       The current DNS-SD user interfaces present the list of discovered service names to the users,       and let them pick a service from the list. Using random identifiers for service names renders       that UI flow unusable. Privacy-respecting discovery protocols will have to solve this issue,       for example by presenting authenticated or decrypted service names instead of the       randomized values. Is that what you expect? -- Christian Huitema On 3/5/2020 1:52 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > On 3/4/2020 9:39 PM, Adam Roach wrote: >> On 3/4/2020 11:22 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: >>> On 3/4/2020 8:50 PM, Adam Roach via Datatracker wrote: >>>> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for >>>> draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: No Objection >>>> >>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Please refer to >>>> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>> >>>> >>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> COMMENT: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Section 3.2: >>>> >>>>>    Information conveyed via multicast messages can be >>>>>    obtained by an on-link attacker, while unicast messages are only >>>>>    available to MITM attackers. >>>> I don’t think this is accurate. Given that many of the environments >>>> under >>>> consideration (e.g., airport WiFi) use unencrypted wireless >>>> transmission >>>> combined with a captive portal. In these cases, an eavesdropper on >>>> the same >>>> channel can snoop on even unicast traffic without mounting an MITM >>>> attack. >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> General: >>>> >>>> The document speaks of randomization of identifiers, including those >>>> commonly >>>> used by users to identify which services they want to connect to. >>>> While the >>>> current state of affairs may list a directory such as: >>>> >>>> •       Adam’s iPhone >>>> •       David’s Google Pixel 3 >>>> •       Alice’s Laptop >>>> >>>> (allowing me to select something based on its published name) >>>> >>>> This document seems to propose a future state where such directories >>>> are >>>> instead presented as: >>>> >>>> •       {da566203-0320-4604-aa14-f58ae7bea00c} >>>> •       {6c0952a5-a573-4d92-9d4a-a4bc111a35d8} >>>> •       {785bed6b-1355-4e7e-ad57-b5ce27e83e56} >>>> >>>> I find it a bit surprising that this document doesn’t include at >>>> least a >>>> cursory mention of the difficulty users may have in device >>>> rendezvous under >>>> such a scheme and potential solutions to such issues (e.g., using >>>> RFID or QR >>>> codes to provide pairing information). >>> Adam, >>> >>> I wonder were in the document you saw that? >> >> It's implicit in the entire subject matter, and quite explicit in >> section 4.2: "Servers must avoid publishing static identifiers such as >> host names or service names.  When those fields are required by the >> protocol, servers should publish randomized values." > Note that there is a distinction between host names and service names. > One of the privacy issues with DNSSD is that it requires the > participants to publish a host name in MDNS. That host name does not > need to be visible with the list of available services, the service > names are supposed to be self describing. It could be randomized without > creating much usability issues. > >> >>> We started this discussion many years ago with a specific protocol >>> proposal, which did indeed include presentations such as list of GUIDs. >>> However, there was a significant difference: if the publishing device >>> was known to you and you had exchanged credentials, then you would see >>> the name in the clear, instead of the cryptic text. The initial proposal >>> did include ways to enable quick pairing in order to exchange >>> credentials, just like you suggest. >>> >>> It turns out that the DNSSD working group was not ready to standardize a >>> protocol like that. The main reasons is that designing such protocols >>> requires a number of trade-offs between usability, management, network >>> resource and computing resource. An example of trade-off would be >>> whether trial decryption was considered OK: it simplifies the design and >>> the operation, at the cost of a high computing load. The initial >>> proposal was making specific trade-offs, but these did not get >>> consensus. >> >> Sure. I recognize that this document is at a higher level than that, >> and wouldn't expect that level of detail as much as a one- or >> two-sentence treatment (or perhaps a bit more) that captures the >> general shape of such solutions. Specifically _because_ the document >> says to replace server names with "randomized values," I think it's >> incumbent on it to _at least_ mention the issues that arise from doing >> so, and to vaguely wave at how those issues might be addressed (in a >> non-exhaustive way, using examples). > I will try to enter a short text along these lines. At a high level, > this is the classic tension between usability and security... > > -- Christian Huitema > From nobody Fri Mar 6 12:04:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8A93A0926; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.276, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4qDt-v5ZL6Mn; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 12:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 506AD3A093A; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 12:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.121.48] (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 026K462K008620 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Mar 2020 14:04:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1583525048; bh=pTTiB8kvxjdJuunrAkrvMbvAHmtco2Mz23y/c5GgJSc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=JcBp5XF2WSuFkDYM+lizrEXa/qc1EdgHuTw9ogi8vGrtqq+lWyg4sClXHgVv+vLvr ObDHoNzDJRAUR9+/qpCLm8t2e7uaP5fxONcpGnTkP60JVb2ga0lgSUl3VjfUxdHtwG OzJseYm2mmhxR721g25CNCmpLatkKNe9G5wc4eTY= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be [172.17.121.48] To: Christian Huitema , The IESG Cc: David Schinazi , dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org References: <158338380296.29279.16868170788768865688@ietfa.amsl.com> <681d3976-c141-2f7d-51da-40c49dd9de5b@huitema.net> <9dbcf43c-cd04-08a2-29e4-d4716922372d@nostrum.com> <00c54c9f-de3c-ff14-6dfe-c404b1c6c2f8@huitema.net> <03f6c4bc-f39e-20c6-4801-f42caee1de13@huitema.net> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 14:04:00 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <03f6c4bc-f39e-20c6-4801-f42caee1de13@huitema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 20:04:15 -0000 On 3/6/2020 1:42 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > Adam, > > I propose adding the following text to 4.2: > > >       The current DNS-SD user interfaces present the list of discovered > service names to the users, >       and let them pick a service from the list. Using random > identifiers for service names renders >       that UI flow unusable. Privacy-respecting discovery protocols will > have to solve this issue, >       for example by presenting authenticated or decrypted service names > instead of the >       randomized values. > > Is that what you expect? That satisfies my concern, yes. Thanks! /a From nobody Fri Mar 6 16:17:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218FD3A0E39 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:17:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3tSh7NApfR64 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24B543A0E36 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from xse308.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.54] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx169.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jAN9S-000dMI-Qz for dnssd@ietf.org; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 00:17:16 -0000 Ben, I am trying to incorporate your feedback, but I have issues with two of your points. =2E.. > Section 3.3.2 > > This sort of problem frequently ends up with a third-party "trusted > introducer", though it's not clear that mentioning this in the document= > will add value. I would rather not say that, because people are also looking at P2P pairing systems -- for example, let your phone read a QR code from the the screen of your friend's laptop. As you say, we can leave that to developers, we don't need to try add value. > > 3.4.2 > > I'm given to understand that for many radio technologies, multicast is > both effectively broadcast and has specific spectrum > requirements/properties that make it especially scarce, compared to > unicast spectrum. I am not sure about the spectrum requirements. AFAIK, for Wi-Fi, unicast and multicast operate on the same frequencies and the same channel. Multicast requires transmitting at the lowest data rate acceptable for all recipients, which means that the transmission of a multicast message may last longer than the transmission of a unicast message, maybe much longer, and that means occupying the spectrum for a longer time. On the other hand, the same transaction using unicast would require several messages, and that too creates requirements on the channel. I am concerned that explaining the issue with fairness would require a long development. MDNS does rely on multicast, and writing something about the cost of multicast would beg the question, what about MDNS? That's a fine discussion to have in the DNSSD working group but, again, I don't think the privacy requirement document is the right place for that. Now, if you have a good citation, we could point at it. -- Christian Huitema From nobody Fri Mar 6 16:42:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58113A0E9F for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:42:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnSjV79xlZVB for ; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com (mx36-out10.antispamcloud.com [209.126.121.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 832AD3A0E68 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 00:42:27 -0000 Ben, Thinking about this some more, I think I can propose a minimal edit to the section 3.4.2:     Creating a discovery protocol that has the desired security     properties may result in a design that is not efficient.     To perform the necessary operations the protocol may     need to send and receive a large number of network packets, >>>    or require an inordinate amount of multicast transmissions. <<<     This may consume an unreasonable amount of network capacity,     particularly problematic when it is a shared wireless spectrum.     Further, it may cause an unnecessary level of power consumption     which is particularly problematic on battery devices,     and may result in the discovery process being slow. That is, just a subtle hint, but enough to draw attention on potential issues. Would that work? -- Christian Huitema From nobody Fri Mar 6 16:48:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B3D3A0EAF; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:48:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u60SiSQ-QKMf; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B6403A0EB6; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0270mCbD029154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 6 Mar 2020 19:48:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:48:12 -0800 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Christian Huitema Cc: The IESG , dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, dnssd@ietf.org, dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200307004812.GG98042@kduck.mit.edu> References: <158338827200.29413.5100659595596762657@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 00:48:22 -0000 Hi Christian, On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 04:41:47PM -0800, Christian Huitema wrote: > Ben, > > Thinking about this some more, I think I can propose a minimal edit to > the section 3.4.2: > > Creating a discovery protocol that has the desired security > properties may result in a design that is not efficient. > To perform the necessary operations the protocol may > need to send and receive a large number of network packets, > > >>> or require an inordinate amount of multicast transmissions. <<< > > This may consume an unreasonable amount of network capacity, > particularly problematic when it is a shared wireless spectrum. > Further, it may cause an unnecessary level of power consumption > which is particularly problematic on battery devices, > and may result in the discovery process being slow. > > That is, just a subtle hint, but enough to draw attention on potential > issues. > > Would that work? It was a non-blocking comment and I was not sure that any change was needed, so even "do nothing" would work :) That said, I do think this strikes a good balance, so thank you. (Whether "or" or "and/or" is better is probably a matter of style.) 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Sat, 7 Mar 2020 07:43:14 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Christian Huitema , Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG CC: "dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com" , "dnssd@ietf.org" , "dnssd-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dnssd] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHV9BXKDdCOxgLzVEOWKHsUr0pzS6g80LSA Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 07:43:14 +0000 Message-ID: <8D8198ED-51B8-4304-9A1F-7DB071CBC4C1@cisco.com> References: <158338827200.29413.5100659595596762657@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.22.0.200209 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:11c6:93af:55d9:ad7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 919471a6-6aae-4724-de92-08d7c26b3170 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB2059: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:18:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG of the IETF. Title : DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements Authors : Christian Huitema Daniel Kaiser Filename : draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2020-03-09 Abstract: DNS-SD (DNS Service Discovery) normally discloses information about devices offering and requesting services. This information includes host names, network parameters, and possibly a further description of the corresponding service instance. Especially when mobile devices engage in DNS Service Discovery at a public hotspot, serious privacy problems arise. We analyze the requirements of a privacy-respecting discovery service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:41:17 +0000 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Daniel KAISER , Christian Huitema CC: "dnssd@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Wrong I-D revision ? Re: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHV9jGOku548dVorUu344oCeE0/vg== Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 16:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: <24CEAEF8-782D-44E7-86E5-E3B69B7D8881@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.22.0.200209 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:d844:aa4b:3f35:9f44] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5023cb8d-103a-4479-1b96-08d7c448b09d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1340: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-forefront-prvs: 0337AFFE9A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(39850400004)(346002)(396003)(366004)(376002)(136003)(199004)(189003)(186003)(478600001)(33656002)(2616005)(71200400001)(86362001)(36756003)(966005)(2906002)(91956017)(8936002)(81166006)(76116006)(8676002)(81156014)(110136005)(316002)(66946007)(66476007)(64756008)(66446008)(4326008)(66556008)(5660300002)(53546011)(6506007)(6512007)(6486002)(66574012); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR11MB1340; H:DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vGgH2FVqho1+2DgXCG0k7tSDZqpUsRK77V6XhhQ9HbpKsBBS8OYGRC72kPJT9jePGEXBdAKnxhv47Jc5KbrsAGT2J5DjqTuQLFbQdSfFrLUmxZyDoytsi13scdtjxfeSyt0opiN/Y506aKKGJ8E8LsNvWPMBP4vn2aBeTp5BH3g6I4kfTj/p9YGNqbFWnv3+3LgTwHpusqDEgMaEgQqmkzt20Ekk3kGNyJpziggPefcwqycf7eliN7UqHlkUbxy6GQXTDdtLCklFeGS0rbPWakAKOC7Zbss58nZdFWEXr9hIVx75ezrfDXkQkPMQwcE61x9zA6Dxwm7WKnjKvn4nHqjN4++l3hduCoAJ5kG0WdDcqcVfZPECeYE+AQ6IzScImBW3G6Spe+vyjG49F/+h9Mn4YW4em22E6DrALKBY++8y6KpVtUC1SCLoopz6GjHXXlcP7VBUt+MIBhIVAjM0GWg6BBC2BmhTclV5KYPbshTqxp8bmnBlQpm+UxyFc/PLNgG8rmlnwgMoOC++ijQwFw== x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: kO9kmyKNiTm9ryQ4edFWoUaEDgSq3ABTDkv+d8uyuWBTxiZI4ofE6XfIDCvx/KM+iPdTlT8RvFJZRJlJ3fgBDhBIsMXjZfUNwL7ZLG7K870cVAp1txKbx4YAF5/gC7U1p0h1TEV0Z6u9VaMTOfD4c4MDl3j6O74x+xXqgRpHWHnPKfCJ5USJhgwxqIwrpjoa/Cv3mxZejPCz1HhUt9QEBA== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5023cb8d-103a-4479-1b96-08d7c448b09d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Mar 2020 16:41:17.5280 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 99H027fwtsYOMy/FXOFuM7gZ3xEtbHhckEGrnOoZwBOzA9ayp0rmUh8AExRGcWiuaA0V+Cj7m8cIxIs+TXg03g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1340 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Wrong I-D revision ? Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-04.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2020 16:41:22 -0000 Q2hyaXN0aWFuLCBEYW5pZWwsDQoNClNvbWV0aGluZyB3ZW50IGJhZGx5IHdpdGggdGhlIHVwbG9h ZC4uLiBUaGUgdGl0bGUgYW5kIGJvZHkgb2YgdGhlIGFubm91bmNlbWVudCBpcyBhYm91dCB2ZXJz aW9uIC0wNCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgZGF0YSB0cmFja2VyIGFzIGEgLTA1IGRhdGVkIDIxc3Qgb2YgRmVi cnVhcnkgMjAyMC4NCg0KV291bGQgeW91IG1pbmQgdG8gY2hlY2sgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHlvdSBq dXN0IHVwbG9hZGVkPw0KDQotw6lyaWMNCg0K77u/LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N CkZyb206IGRuc3NkIDxkbnNzZC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgImludGVy bmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NClJlcGx5LVRv OiAiZG5zc2RAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkbnNzZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkRhdGU6IE1vbmRheSwgOSBNYXJj aCAyMDIwIGF0IDE3OjE5DQpUbzogImktZC1hbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGktZC1hbm5vdW5j ZUBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkNjOiAiZG5zc2RAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkbnNzZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFtkbnNzZF0gSS1EIEFjdGlvbjogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kbnNzZC1wcmlyZXEtMDQudHh0DQoN CiAgICANCiAgICBBIE5ldyBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgb24t bGluZSBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgZGlyZWN0b3JpZXMuDQogICAgVGhpcyBkcmFmdCBpcyBhIHdv cmsgaXRlbSBvZiB0aGUgRXh0ZW5zaW9ucyBmb3IgU2NhbGFibGUgRE5TIFNlcnZpY2UgRGlzY292 ZXJ5IFdHIG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGLg0KICAgIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgVGl0bGUgICAgICAgICAgIDog RE5TLVNEIFByaXZhY3kgYW5kIFNlY3VyaXR5IFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgQXV0 aG9ycyAgICAgICAgIDogQ2hyaXN0aWFuIEh1aXRlbWENCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIERhbmllbCBLYWlzZXINCiAgICAJRmlsZW5hbWUgICAgICAgIDogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1k bnNzZC1wcmlyZXEtMDQudHh0DQogICAgCVBhZ2VzICAgICAgICAgICA6IDIwDQogICAgCURhdGUg ICAgICAgICAgICA6IDIwMjAtMDMtMDkNCiAgICANCiAgICBBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgICAgICBETlMt U0QgKEROUyBTZXJ2aWNlIERpc2NvdmVyeSkgbm9ybWFsbHkgZGlzY2xvc2VzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u IGFib3V0DQogICAgICAgZGV2aWNlcyBvZmZlcmluZyBhbmQgcmVxdWVzdGluZyBzZXJ2aWNlcy4g IFRoaXMgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW5jbHVkZXMNCiAgICAgICBob3N0IG5hbWVzLCBuZXR3b3JrIHBh cmFtZXRlcnMsIGFuZCBwb3NzaWJseSBhIGZ1cnRoZXIgZGVzY3JpcHRpb24gb2YNCiAgICAgICB0 aGUgY29ycmVzcG9uZGluZyBzZXJ2aWNlIGluc3RhbmNlLiAgRXNwZWNpYWxseSB3aGVuIG1vYmls ZSBkZXZpY2VzDQogICAgICAgZW5nYWdlIGluIEROUyBTZXJ2aWNlIERpc2NvdmVyeSBhdCBhIHB1 YmxpYyBob3RzcG90LCBzZXJpb3VzIHByaXZhY3kNCiAgICAgICBwcm9ibGVtcyBhcmlzZS4gIFdl IGFuYWx5emUgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiBhIHByaXZhY3ktcmVzcGVjdGluZw0KICAgICAg IGRpc2NvdmVyeSBzZXJ2aWNlLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSBJRVRGIGRhdGF0cmFja2Vy IHN0YXR1cyBwYWdlIGZvciB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGlzOg0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIu aWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG5zc2QtcHJpcmVxLw0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZXJlIGFy ZSBhbHNvIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb25zIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdDoNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xz LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kbnNzZC1wcmlyZXEtMDQNCiAgICBodHRwczovL2Rh dGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG5zc2QtcHJpcmVxLTA0DQog ICAgDQogICAgQSBkaWZmIGZyb20gdGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIHZlcnNpb24gaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0 Og0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRuc3Nk LXByaXJlcS0wNA0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIFBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2Ug YSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCiAgICB1bnRp bCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmll dGYub3JnLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBhcmUgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgYnkg YW5vbnltb3VzIEZUUCBhdDoNCiAgICBmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRz Lw0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQogICAgZG5zc2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgZG5zc2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAg ICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2Ruc3NkDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Mar 10 22:38:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A733A1225; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 22:38:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dnssd@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.120.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dnssd@ietf.org Message-ID: <158390508907.16357.7031618644783779281@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 22:38:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 05:38:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG of the IETF. Title : DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements Authors : Christian Huitema Daniel Kaiser Filename : draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2020-03-10 Abstract: DNS-SD (DNS Service Discovery) normally discloses information about devices offering and requesting services. This information includes host names, network parameters, and possibly a further description of the corresponding service instance. Especially when mobile devices engage in DNS Service Discovery at a public hotspot, serious privacy problems arise. We analyze the requirements of a privacy-respecting discovery service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Mar 12 16:39:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607883A092F; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:39:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dnssd@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.120.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dnssd@ietf.org Message-ID: <158405636829.18107.3609795294050716388@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 16:39:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:39:28 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG of the IETF. Title : DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements Authors : Christian Huitema Daniel Kaiser Filename : draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2020-03-12 Abstract: DNS-SD (DNS Service Discovery) normally discloses information about devices offering and requesting services. This information includes host names, network parameters, and possibly a further description of the corresponding service instance. Especially when mobile devices engage in DNS Service Discovery at a public hotspot, serious privacy problems arise. We analyze the requirements of a privacy-respecting discovery service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Mar 13 01:30:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A773A139A for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 01:30:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yE3Svn21gv3E for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 01:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C6923A1399 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 01:30:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: 212.76.239.56 Received: from [192.168.0.233] (cable-212.76.239.56.coditel.net [212.76.239.56]) (Authenticated sender: amelia@andersdotter.cc) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 074B44000B for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:30:24 +0000 (UTC) To: dnssd@ietf.org References: <158405636829.18107.3609795294050716388@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc From: Amelia Andersdotter Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 09:30:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <158405636829.18107.3609795294050716388@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] version numbering? Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 08:30:30 -0000 i don't want to be nitpicky but what is going on with the versioning here? On 2020-03-13 00:39, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG of the IETF. > > Title : DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements > Authors : Christian Huitema > Daniel Kaiser > Filename : draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2020-03-12 > From nobody Fri Mar 13 03:49:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010443A1590 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 03:49:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt Thread-Index: AQHV+RG7wZTmBF15bEaElVLVDaI5pahGaJoA Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158405636829.18107.3609795294050716388@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.35.20030802 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=evyncke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c1:36:c1f1:786e:e19e:d483] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c2648cb8-10e3-46ea-705e-08d7c73c207d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB1403: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 034119E4F6 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(396003)(346002)(366004)(199004)(8676002)(110136005)(6486002)(36756003)(8936002)(2906002)(66476007)(66446008)(966005)(76116006)(91956017)(81156014)(33656002)(66556008)(478600001)(81166006)(64756008)(66946007)(6512007)(86362001)(66574012)(316002)(71200400001)(54906003)(5660300002)(186003)(53546011)(2616005)(4326008)(6506007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR11MB1403; H:DM5PR11MB1753.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: iGHEy8Z9c5kOssdCUqRtpHgOEFifapQneAyjKouwHeN1MiW69gUYDC2uympskArGfoRrU2riEJfywz5MZvJlOKvfV/sgoYMENVtththqQNwBS+x8hnMFqQTvRdP/QjI5AUcPsCOhtEkLFzq8cZ819Q4oI69Xns4luxQMe5oQDLCZRsgyboqV3U4NPuLG5tu64c0vNhgDGr8DqGwmiOMccg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3A02FF185887A84D856AB37A2380E331@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c2648cb8-10e3-46ea-705e-08d7c73c207d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Mar 2020 10:48:55.2171 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: w+HX8Vn/uJ8uY0IzjrU0ZkIlU+ORiLL1n72f5lZp6RYaNf/sbPS6wjzTC5OZlrqg0jrwn2BGzkdciZ2ghK5zAQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1403 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] version numbering? Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." 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Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.5.2.15] (helo=xmail05.myhosting.com) by xsmtp21.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jCqWw-0000MO-8z for dnssd@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:03:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 14712 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2020 20:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.217]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail05.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 13 Mar 2020 20:03:38 -0000 To: amelia.ietf@andersdotter.cc, dnssd@ietf.org References: <158405636829.18107.3609795294050716388@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Christian Huitema Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFIRX8gBCAC26usy/Ya38IqaLBSu33vKD6hP5Yw390XsWLaAZTeQR64OJEkoOdXpvcOS HWfMIlD5s5+oHfLe8jjmErFAXYJ8yytPj1fD2OdSKAe1TccUBiOXT8wdVxSr5d0alExVv/LO I/vA2aU1TwOkVHKSapD7j8/HZBrqIWRrXUSj2f5n9tY2nJzG9KRzSG0giaJWBfUFiGb4lvsy IaCaIU0YpfkDDk6PtK5YYzuCeF0B+O7N9LhDu/foUUc4MNq4K3EKDPb2FL1Hrv0XHpkXeMRZ olpH8SUFUJbmi+zYRuUgcXgMZRmZFL1tu6z9h6gY4/KPyF9aYot6zG28Qk/BFQRtj7V1ABEB AAG0J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PokBOQQTAQIAIwUC UhFfyAIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJNDCbJVyA1yhbYH/1ud6x6m VqGIp0JcZUfSQO8w+TjugqxCyGNn+w/6Qb5O/xENxNQ4HaMQ5uSRK9n8WKKDDRSzwZ4syKKf wbkfj05vgFxrjCynVbm1zs2X2aGXh+PxPL/WHUaxzEP7KjYbLtCUZDRzOOrm+0LMktngT/k3 6+EZoLEM52hwwpIAzJoscyEz7QfqMOZtFm6xQnlvDQeIrHx0KUvwo/vgDLK3SuruG1CSHcR0 D24kEEUa044AIUKBS3b0b8AR7f6mP2NcnLpdsibtpabi9BzqAidcY/EjTaoea46HXALk/eJd 6OLkLE6UQe1PPzQC4jB7rErX2BxnSkHDw50xMgLRcl5/b1a5AQ0EUhFfyAEIAKp7Cp8lqKTV CC9QiAf6QTIjW+lie5J44Ad++0k8gRgANZVWubQuCQ71gxDWLtxYfFkEXjG4TXV/MUtnOliG 5rc2E+ih6Dg61Y5PQakm9OwPIsOx+2R+iSW325ngln2UQrVPgloO83QiUoi7mBJPbcHlxkhZ bd3+EjFxSLIQogt29sTcg2oSh4oljUpz5niTt69IOfZx21kf29NfDE+Iw56gfrxI2ywZbu5o G+d0ZSp0lsovygpk4jK04fDTq0vxjEU5HjPcsXC4CSZdq5E2DrF4nOh1UHkHzeaXdYR2Bn1Y wTePfaHBFlvQzI+Li/Q6AD/uxbTM0vIcsUxrv3MNHCUAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQUCUhFfyAIb LgEpCRCTQwmyVcgNcsBdIAQZAQIABgUCUhFfyAAKCRC22tOSFDh1UOlBB/94RsCJepNvmi/c YiNmMnm0mKb6vjv43OsHkqrrCqJSfo95KHyl5Up4JEp8tiJMyYT2mp4IsirZHxz/5lqkw9Az tcGAF3GlFsj++xTyD07DXlNeddwTKlqPRi/b8sppjtWur6Pm+wnAHp0mQ7GidhxHccFCl65w uT7S/ocb1MjrTgnAMiz+x87d48n1UJ7yIdI41Wpg2XFZiA9xPBiDuuoPwFj14/nK0elV5Dvq 4/HVgfurb4+fd74PV/CC/dmd7hg0ZRlgnB5rFUcFO7ywb7/TvICIIaLWcI42OJDSZjZ/MAzz BeXm263lHh+kFxkh2LxEHnQGHCHGpTYyi4Z3dv03HtkH/1SI8joQMQq00Bv+RdEbJXfEExrT u4gtdZAihwvy97OPA2nCdTAHm/phkzryMeOaOztI4PS8u2Ce5lUB6P/HcGtK/038KdX5MYST Fn8KUDt4o29bkv0CUXwDzS3oTzPNtGdryBkRMc9b+yn9+AdwFEH4auhiTQXPMnl0+G3nhKr7 jvzVFJCRif3OAhEm4vmBNDE3uuaXFQnbK56GJrnqVN+KX5Z3M7X3fA8UcVCGOEHXRP/aubiw Ngawj0V9x+43kUapFp+nF69R53UI65YtJ95ec4PTO/Edvap8h1UbdEOc4+TiYwY1TBuIKltY 1cnrjgAWUh/Ucvr++/KbD9tD6C8= Message-ID: <4b517285-ee99-9855-5e2b-007620ae4381@huitema.net> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:03:41 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 20:03:49 -0000 On 3/13/2020 1:30 AM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote: > i don't want to be nitpicky but what is going on with the versioning here? > > On 2020-03-13 00:39, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements >> Authors : Christian Huitema >> Daniel Kaiser >> Filename : draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt >> Pages : 20 >> Date : 2020-03-12 Believe it or not, but I hit a bug in the datatracker when submitting draft 05. The data tracker UI told me it was the wrong version number, and that I should submit as version 04. I did that. Then Eric asked me to submit version 05 to get the right version in the tracker. I did that too, submitting version 06 as expected. The data tracker gave me an all clear so I thought we were good, but Eric later found out that behind the scene the tracker had created version 06 and version 07. Finally, I resubmitted the draft as version 08, bring tracker and draft version numbers in line. -- Christian Huitema From nobody Wed Mar 18 09:08:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietf.org Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A5A3A1837; Wed, 18 Mar 2020 09:08:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.121.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: dnssd-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq@ietf.org, evyncke@cisco.com, The IESG , dnssd@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com, David Schinazi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <158454771440.29119.4621832415167026160@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 09:08:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dnssd] Document Action: 'DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt) X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 16:08:41 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'DNS-SD Privacy and Security Requirements' (draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq-08.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Éric Vyncke and Suresh Krishnan. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-prireq/ Technical Summary This document discusses how current DNSSD protocols can leak users' private information. It goes into detail on some specific use-cases that would benefit from improved privacy and security. This document is meant as guidelines that the DNSSD working group will follow when defining a standard for privacy-preserving service discovery. Working Group Summary There was controversy in how to build a solution to these privacy concerns, and the working group therefore chose to start with writing a requirements document, which is this draft. This draft was not controversial in the working group. Document Quality This document only discusses requirements, and does so pretty well. Personnel David Schinazi is the Document Shepherd (and co-chair of the WG) Éric Vyncke is the Responsible Area Director. From nobody Mon Mar 23 16:31:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587053A0F12 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:31:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KZj2HDpbNlPF for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A53B03A0F0D for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049459.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049459.ppops.net-00191d01. 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 23:31:35 -0000 Hi dnssd WG, David and I have discussed the possible interim and decided not to have one= . There were no contributions and no requests for agenda time. If you think we were sadly mistaken, please let us know. 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[24.91.177.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z23sm12186219qkg.21.2020.03.23.16.34.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Mar 2020 16:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <257F7513-6A11-446F-914D-D8E498A79219@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FA1C3E9D-1DF9-431A-AE70-FDA697A8D9FF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3622.0.6\)) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:34:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83f032792b684e5599b39928cff24521@att.com> Cc: "dnssd@ietf.org" To: "STARK, BARBARA H" References: <83f032792b684e5599b39928cff24521@att.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3622.0.6) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] no dnssd interim X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 23:35:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FA1C3E9D-1DF9-431A-AE70-FDA697A8D9FF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Mar 23, 2020, at 7:31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > David and I have discussed the possible interim and decided not to = have one. There were no contributions and no requests for agenda time. > If you think we were sadly mistaken, please let us know. I wouldn=E2=80=99t mind having one when the dust has settled, but it=E2=80= =99s perfectly fine to not have one right away. :) --Apple-Mail=_FA1C3E9D-1DF9-431A-AE70-FDA697A8D9FF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = Mar 23, 2020, at 7:31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H <bs7652@att.com> = wrote:
David and I = have discussed the possible interim and decided not to have one. There = were no contributions and no requests for agenda time.
If you think = we were sadly mistaken, please let us = know.

I = wouldn=E2=80=99t mind having one when the dust has settled, but it=E2=80=99= s perfectly fine to not have one right away.  :)

= --Apple-Mail=_FA1C3E9D-1DF9-431A-AE70-FDA697A8D9FF-- From nobody Mon Mar 23 17:27:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnssd@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899103A0E62 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1eu2HwzBbbmE for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 594E33A0E61 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id j17so11770839lfe.7 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:27:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TL1vy51yJvc9aW0/slbcnsBM3iRvN4vyzAArwezhvW8=; b=kXdRZ61d9SstnnWvVHowxRP9Fc9OuHp9/V+E7zn6C3Iyvc2iwmlE32z3QZFwTgwvpL pUnS10JCA+JR9DvXS9psWsOB0e3GO0h5u5/iIvvysanxmb6oo+mBA5HigtzHiy/TDAVQ TQI101aImEX/MWbrWAwMbXEo7VzWlpGEI0F2rpGR44tVLgbGmB4wsPIuopjS6pzUbJMk 02TMfT6VeRwxPqFHPOi79csMMK1X2wxfF6ygwY0vhTkzr6/87lIkxIf9iV55wwWgIZRy ZbnkxgwzM8pjtAColSl2eQCnOqhRQn8yIb07pAfaKnj4CYQocMXoON13dyN9Z2rmDpRS PnFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TL1vy51yJvc9aW0/slbcnsBM3iRvN4vyzAArwezhvW8=; b=WMWKWQLxqG9V5cL+imKcPOZ9mVQY2FgXQ0LP6RmSuo51m4Aa0290yEgnkaFBN+zs9A XsqpljWmrNvWiOlX/MLyyu7DkRvIlbwiz0LjzQc8dC9vrVQYwt9Th09qYVE3SeffXfht UYooH6OMAo9wqIWyRvviS4yAl1DEALsD1BPInfT+9e6+tkS6Xo5F79BFuek9LgQ9iNXt w6mwh90z359MZBWqvheBO77zOZQqcBE4pbk8jfyokFnLzmATovSJ1vYtzun0Um9tzF6I ABtCyvtc/0XkFemcTHEaD5pOamOV5B+o39s9oFCw15oZFZfnmzOwGFWOsnQSW2cuV+PI BPLA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ0S5lFQ+54GJ80umNGWLj51sOYMUbUeBJr4z3BhUs0zdhS7JcWQ cwjkVrPjoNjbdr/3tuMaTYQVmloBFnXsMvuyuww= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vtsX0RRfLjoAS3KW10JB1LoOOvNltck6A1V7ry2YtV1s8LeM0u2tpp7r2k2Tuci2LaXLAx2TISEM7FneBqWKDA= X-Received: by 2002:a19:84c7:: with SMTP id g190mr7776407lfd.204.1585009629588; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:27:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83f032792b684e5599b39928cff24521@att.com> <257F7513-6A11-446F-914D-D8E498A79219@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <257F7513-6A11-446F-914D-D8E498A79219@fugue.com> From: David Schinazi Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Cc: "STARK, BARBARA H" , "dnssd@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eff32805a18ecfca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] no dnssd interim X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 00:27:14 -0000 --000000000000eff32805a18ecfca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ted, What topics would you like to discuss if we were to have a DNSSD Virtual Interim meeting before IETF 108? Thanks, David On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 4:35 PM Ted Lemon wrote: > On Mar 23, 2020, at 7:31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > > David and I have discussed the possible interim and decided not to have > one. There were no contributions and no requests for agenda time. > If you think we were sadly mistaken, please let us know. > > > I wouldn=E2=80=99t mind having one when the dust has settled, but it=E2= =80=99s perfectly > fine to not have one right away. :) > > _______________________________________________ > dnssd mailing list > dnssd@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd > --000000000000eff32805a18ecfca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ted,

What topics would you like to d= iscuss if we were to have a DNSSD Virtual Interim meeting before IETF 108?<= /div>

Thanks,
David

On Mon, Mar 23, 2020= at 4:35 PM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.= com> wrote:
On Mar 23, 2020, at 7:31 PM, S= TARK, BARBARA H <bs7= 652@att.com> wrote:
David and I have discussed the pos= sible interim and decided not to have one. There were no contributions and = no requests for agenda time.
If you think we were sadly mistaken, pl= ease let us know.

I wouldn=E2=80=99= t mind having one when the dust has settled, but it=E2=80=99s perfectly fin= e to not have one right away. =C2=A0:)

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([2601:18b:300:36ee:fc82:3392:d35c:7e90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l13sm13197731qtu.66.2020.03.23.17.47.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1063981A-87BD-430D-83D4-F19D5801C986 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ted Lemon Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 20:31:59 -0400 Message-Id: <7CC2E0C1-2DB1-472C-BFA4-07FDBB89BDE9@fugue.com> References: Cc: "STARK, BARBARA H" , "dnssd@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: David Schinazi X-Mailer: iPad Mail (17E255) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dnssd] no dnssd interim X-BeenThere: dnssd@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of extensions to DNS-based service discovery for routed networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 00:47:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1063981A-87BD-430D-83D4-F19D5801C986 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Changes to SRP. There are a couple of things that have come up. E.g., when= there is a name conflict, do we need to signal which name was in conflict, s= ince the update will contain more than one name? Right now we just return Y= XDOMAIN. Also, do we need to be able to remove names before the lease expir= es? Etc. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:27 PM, David Schinazi wro= te: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Ted, >=20 > What topics would you like to discuss if we were to have a DNSSD Virtual I= nterim meeting before IETF 108? >=20 > Thanks, > David >=20 >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 4:35 PM Ted Lemon wrote: >>> On Mar 23, 2020, at 7:31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >>> David and I have discussed the possible interim and decided not to have o= ne. There were no contributions and no requests for agenda time. >>> If you think we were sadly mistaken, please let us know. >>=20 >> I wouldn=E2=80=99t mind having one when the dust has settled, but it=E2=80= =99s perfectly fine to not have one right away. :) >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dnssd mailing list >> dnssd@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd --Apple-Mail-1063981A-87BD-430D-83D4-F19D5801C986 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Changes to SRP.  There are a couple of= things that have come up.  E.g., when there is a name conflict, do we n= eed to signal which name was in conflict, since the update will contain more= than one name?  Right now we just return YXDOMAIN.  Also, do we n= eed to be able to remove names before the lease expires?  Etc.

<= div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPad

On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:27 PM, David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gma= il.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hi Ted,

What topics w= ould you like to discuss if we were to have a DNSSD Virtual Interim meeting b= efore IETF 108?

Thanks,
David
=
On Mon,= Mar 23, 2020 at 4:35 PM Ted Lemon <m= ellon@fugue.com> wrote:
On Mar 23, 2020, at 7= :31 PM, STARK, BARBARA H <bs7652@att.com> wrote:
David and I have discussed the pos= sible interim and decided not to have one. There were no contributions and n= o requests for agenda time.
If you think we were sadly mistaken, please let u= s know.

I wouldn=E2=80=99t mind havi= ng one when the dust has settled, but it=E2=80=99s perfectly fine to not hav= e one right away.  :)

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