From nobody Sun Jul 2 19:12:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716701300F0 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2017 19:11:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z7pyun-b12Uo for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2017 19:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 592D3129B08 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 2017 19:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DQG85570; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 02:11:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 03:11:52 +0100 Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 10:11:49 +0800 Received: from DGGEML502-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.143]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 10:11:46 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank)" To: kaname nishizuka CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS Thread-Index: AQHS8T4vusFHLGRMzkmoFx/BK/A+PaI8UwmAgAUNNlA= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 02:11:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12BB0096FDGGEML502MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0203.5959A7EA.00CB, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.143, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: e2f8f0279303336b55c4a7b6c56fa00a Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRndkOiBbaGFja2F0aG9uXSBET1RT?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Z_sqdEfr8tN for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 03:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BD731289C3 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 03:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.85) for dots@ietf.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (envelope-from ) id <1dRyRy-000wQF-By>; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:19:26 +0200 Received: from z37bb.pia.fu-berlin.de ([87.77.55.187] helo=[10.55.187.2]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.85) for dots@ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (envelope-from ) id <1dRyRy-003Lko-5R>; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:19:26 +0200 To: "'dots@ietf.org'" From: Marcin Nawrocki Message-ID: <78ef023c-ba65-9b04-4809-095b88eff100@fu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 12:19:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3417BAB8F542FCD8983DE9E5" Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: 87.77.55.187 X-ZEDAT-Hint: A Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Questions about the DOTS server X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:19:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3417BAB8F542FCD8983DE9E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear DOTS wg, since I am relatively new to the DOTS architecture, I am still having some questions regarding the DOTS server. > A DOTS server is a DOTS agent capable of receiving, processing and > possibly acting on requests for help coordinating attack response > DOTS clients. Questions: 1. Does the DOTS server introduce a single point of failure? 2. How is a DOTS server protected from getting DDoS'ed? 3. Who will be the operator of a DOTS server? 4. How many DOTS clients should a DOTS server be able to serve? Regards, Marcin Nawrocki --------------3417BAB8F542FCD8983DE9E5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear DOTS wg,


since I am relatively new to the DOTS architecture, I am still having some questions regarding the DOTS server. 
A DOTS server is a DOTS agent capable of receiving, processing and
possibly acting on requests for help coordinating attack response
DOTS clients.

Questions:
  1. Does the DOTS server introduce a single point of failure?
  2. How is a DOTS server protected from getting DDoS'ed?
  3. Who will be the operator of a DOTS server?
  4. How many DOTS clients should a DOTS server be able to serve?


Regards,
Marcin Nawrocki --------------3417BAB8F542FCD8983DE9E5-- From nobody Mon Jul 3 05:42:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695AD12762F for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 05:42:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7mtpO2TD11Yj for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 05:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01on0091.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5141812EAF0 for ; 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SRVR:BN3PR0101MB1026; x-forefront-prvs: 035748864E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39450400003)(39840400002)(39400400002)(39410400002)(39850400002)(24454002)(5660300001)(54356999)(478600001)(6512007)(189998001)(81166006)(33656002)(3280700002)(76176999)(7736002)(305945005)(53546010)(2906002)(2900100001)(8936002)(3660700001)(6116002)(6506006)(38730400002)(6916009)(6486002)(102836003)(8676002)(6436002)(86362001)(25786009)(110136004)(77096006)(82746002)(53936002)(83716003)(229853002)(36756003)(14454004)(99286003)(4326008)(2950100002)(6246003)(50986999); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0101MB1026; H:BN3PR0101MB1028.prod.exchangelabs.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arbor.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Jul 2017 12:42:38.6224 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 54f11205-d4aa-4809-bd36-0b542199c5b2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0101MB1026 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Questions about the DOTS server X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 12:42:42 -0000 > On Jul 3, 2017, at 17:19, Marcin Nawrocki = wrote: >=20 > Does the DOTS server introduce a single point of failure? No, as there can be multiple DOTS servers. > How is a DOTS server protected from getting DDoS'ed? With BCPs like tACLs. > Who will be the operator of a DOTS server? Any organization which a) has the ability to mitigate DDoS attacks & b) wis= hes to operate a DOTS server.=20 > How many DOTS clients should a DOTS server be able to serve? As many as it's scaled to support. =20 ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins = From nobody Mon Jul 3 07:39:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58552131656; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149909273131.22786.2448302933738674962@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 07:38:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 14:38:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements Authors : Andrew Mortensen Robert Moskowitz Tirumaleswar Reddy Filename : draft-ietf-dots-requirements-06.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols coordinating attack response against DDoS attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-requirements-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 3 07:44:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDCD13163A; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 07:44:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149909306568.22726.2899297373553788038@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 07:44:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-architecture-04.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 14:44:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling of the IETF. Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Architecture Authors : Andrew Mortensen Flemming Andreasen Tirumaleswar Reddy Christopher Gray Rich Compton Nik Teague Filename : draft-ietf-dots-architecture-04.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: This document describes an architecture for establishing and maintaining Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) within and between domains. The document does not specify protocols or protocol extensions, instead focusing on defining architectural relationships, components and concepts used in a DOTS deployment. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-architecture/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-architecture-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-architecture-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-architecture-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 3 13:16:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F53124234; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:16:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149911301265.22804.18302024927028855225@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:16:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 20:16:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling of the IETF. Title : Use cases for DDoS Open Threat Signaling Authors : Roland Dobbins Daniel Migault Stefan Fouant Robert Moskowitz Nik Teague Liang Xia Kaname Nishizuka Filename : draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: The DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) effort is intended to provide a protocol that facilitates interoperability between multivendor solutions/services. This document presents use cases to evaluate the interactions expected between the DOTS components as well as DOTS messaging exchanges. The purpose of describing use cases is to identify the interacting DOTS components, how they collaborate and what are the types of information to be exchanged. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 3 13:26:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BE5120724 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:26:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XDV2IloG5j4N for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam03on0112.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.41.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C70F01200B9 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 20:26:52 -0000 Changes in -06 include 8 new/updated interdomain use-cases, reworking of the intradomain section with a new use-case, and some spelling and grammatical corrections. TODO in -07: Add at least one additional interdomain use-case. Add at least two additional intradomain use-cases. Incorporate recent feedback from editors and contributors. Rework orchestration section and move to its own top-level section. Add additional references. Grammatical and stylistic clean-up, and clean-up of typos. -07 will be edited over the next week-and-a-half, and submitted on 17Jul2017. -07 is currently targeted for WGLC. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins Forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:16:52 -0700 > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > has been successfully submitted by Roland Dobbins and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-dots-use-cases > Revision: 06 > Title: Use cases for DDoS Open Threat Signaling > Document date: 2017-07-03 > Group: dots > Pages: 16 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases/ > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > > Abstract: > The DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) effort is intended to provide > a > protocol that facilitates interoperability between multivendor > solutions/services. This document presents use cases to evaluate > the > interactions expected between the DOTS components as well as DOTS > messaging exchanges. The purpose of describing use cases is to > identify the interacting DOTS components, how they collaborate and > what are the types of information to be exchanged. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon Jul 3 22:30:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D8C913181F for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:30:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KsQfgAazoypW for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30ADB1200C5 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 6549418028C; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 07:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.13]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 288D712007B; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 07:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::54f9:a6c3:c013:cbc7%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 07:30:38 +0200 From: To: Roland Dobbins , dots Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9Dq3pjXiOzHUEECy+MdetVAOf6JDIxcQ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 05:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A00046B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149911301277.22804.3229398803275434313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 05:30:43 -0000 Hi Roland, all, When checking the diff, I'm surprised to see many items (including nits and= so on) that were fixed in -05 reappear in this new version.=20 It seems that you started the revision on an older version. IMO, this is no= t helpful.=20 I'm afraid that we need to revert back to -05.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Roland Dobbins > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 3 juillet 2017 22:26 > =C0=A0: dots > Objet=A0: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use- > cases-06.txt >=20 >=20 > Changes in -06 include 8 new/updated interdomain use-cases, reworking of > the intradomain section with a new use-case, and some spelling and > grammatical corrections. >=20 > TODO in -07: >=20 > Add at least one additional interdomain use-case. >=20 > Add at least two additional intradomain use-cases. >=20 > Incorporate recent feedback from editors and contributors. >=20 > Rework orchestration section and move to its own top-level section. >=20 > Add additional references. >=20 > Grammatical and stylistic clean-up, and clean-up of typos. >=20 > -07 will be edited over the next week-and-a-half, and submitted on > 17Jul2017. -07 is currently targeted for WGLC. >=20 > ----------------------------------- > Roland Dobbins >=20 > Forwarded message: >=20 > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > > > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > > Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:16:52 -0700 > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Roland Dobbins and posted to the > > IETF repository. > > > > Name: draft-ietf-dots-use-cases > > Revision: 06 > > Title: Use cases for DDoS Open Threat Signaling > > Document date: 2017-07-03 > > Group: dots > > Pages: 16 > > URL: > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt > > Status: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases/ > > Htmlized: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > > Htmlized: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > > Diff: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 > > > > Abstract: > > The DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) effort is intended to provide > > a > > protocol that facilitates interoperability between multivendor > > solutions/services. This document presents use cases to evaluate > > the > > interactions expected between the DOTS components as well as DOTS > > messaging exchanges. The purpose of describing use cases is to > > identify the interacting DOTS components, how they collaborate and > > what are the types of information to be exchanged. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Jul 3 23:58:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C5513187F for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 23:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0101MB1026; H:BN3PR0101MB1028.prod.exchangelabs.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: arbor.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arbor.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jul 2017 06:58:01.8374 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 54f11205-d4aa-4809-bd36-0b542199c5b2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0101MB1026 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 06:58:07 -0000 > On Jul 4, 2017, at 12:30, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" wrote: >=20 > When checking the diff, I'm surprised to see many items (including nits a= nd so on) that were fixed in -05 reappear in this new version. Please provide a list of the things you've spotted & we'll get them fixed d= irectly, thanks! ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins = From nobody Tue Jul 4 00:11:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42DD813146D for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 00:11:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wfRpmow6y0oG for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 00:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71DAB1318F5 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 00:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2F50D60462; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.43]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 15B8860088; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e172:f13e:8be6:71cc%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:11:53 +0200 From: To: "Dobbins, Roland" CC: dots Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9DlSQ5Y/jH5V/kGQ7C9ReXRpGqJCjPv2gACX6ACAABhrmYAAAjAg Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 07:11:53 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A000574@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149911301277.22804.3229398803275434313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A00046B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 07:11:57 -0000 Roland,=20 Actually, these are all the issues spotted -04 and fixed in -05. The requir= ed changes are available here: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-use-cases-05.txt =20 Thank you. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dobbins, Roland [mailto:rdobbins@arbor.net] > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 4 juillet 2017 08:58 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN > Cc=A0: dots > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-us= e- > cases-06.txt >=20 >=20 > > On Jul 4, 2017, at 12:30, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" > wrote: > > > > When checking the diff, I'm surprised to see many items (including nits > and so on) that were fixed in -05 reappear in this new version. >=20 > Please provide a list of the things you've spotted & we'll get them fixed > directly, thanks! >=20 > ----------------------------------- > Roland Dobbins From nobody Tue Jul 4 01:14:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446001317AA for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arbor.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jul 2017 08:14:18.8539 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 54f11205-d4aa-4809-bd36-0b542199c5b2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0101MB1025 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 08:14:22 -0000 > On Jul 4, 2017, at 14:11, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" wrote: >=20 > The required changes are available here: We'll get the relevant changes fixed - note that the changes to the substan= ce of the use-cases in both the interdomain & intradomain sections in -06 a= re intentional. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins = From nobody Tue Jul 4 01:47:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742FE131B7C for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:47:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3r7oe7F2VtMZ for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CFB2131B66 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 01:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0DE211805DD; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:47:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.41]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C96B51A0081; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:47:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2cc9:4bac:7b7d:229d%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:47:41 +0200 From: To: "Dobbins, Roland" CC: dots Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHS9DlSQ5Y/jH5V/kGQ7C9ReXRpGqJCjPv2gACX6ACAABhrmYAAAjAggAATIACAAAPscA== Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 08:47:40 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0006F6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149911301277.22804.3229398803275434313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A00046B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> , <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A000574@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 08:47:45 -0000 Re-, I suspect that some of the changes are intentional. I do like the new Section 3.1.8 but I'm not sure to understand the rational= e behind all of the other NEW sections. For example: * I would not categorize "End-customer operating an application or service = with ...", "End-customer operating a CPE network infrastructure ...", and "= End-customer with an out-of-band smartphone application" as DOTS use cases.= Those are variation of DOTS client deployment within a network that makes = use of the DOTS service. =20 * Further, how it is relevant to the discussion whether the DOTS client is = embedded on a smartphone or a "normal" host? * "End-customer with a single upstream transit provider", "End-customer wit= h multiple upstream transit providers ...", and "End-customer with multiple= upstream transit providers, but only a single upstream transit .." are all= variations of one single DOTS use case: a network invoking DOTS service fr= om one or multiple upstream providers.=20 I would personally maintain the structure in -05 + add the new section 3.1.= 8 + add privacy discussion induced by the procedure in section 3.1.8.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dobbins, Roland [mailto:rdobbins@arbor.net] > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 4 juillet 2017 10:14 > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN > Cc=A0: dots > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-us= e- > cases-06.txt >=20 >=20 > > On Jul 4, 2017, at 14:11, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" > wrote: > > > > The required changes are available here: >=20 > We'll get the relevant changes fixed - note that the changes to the > substance of the use-cases in both the interdomain & intradomain sections > in -06 are intentional. >=20 > ----------------------------------- > Roland Dobbins From nobody Tue Jul 4 20:51:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A457A1300F0 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:51:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SziDfLeUVc_K for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E17129AE3 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id E5C9125F69F; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:51:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from DHCP-119.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id D5D8B763516; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:51:33 +0900 (JST) To: "Xialiang (Frank)" Cc: "dots@ietf.org" References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 12:54:24 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------998FF6D21FD37A40B83B9A4E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBGd2Q6IFtoYWNrYXRob25dIERPVFM=?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 03:51:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------998FF6D21FD37A40B83B9A4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank, Even the time is limited, we can collaborate by discussing the implementations and the specifications. Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful hackathon. I'm looking forward to collaborating with you. see you then, Kaname On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) wrote: > > Hi Kaname, > > Thanks for leading this implementation work of DOTS. > > I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little bit at Saturday afternoon. > > See you then! > > B.R. > > Frank > > *发件人:*Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *kaname nishizuka > *发送时间:*2017年6月30日13:01 > *收件人:*dots@ietf.org > *主题:*[Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS > > Hi, > > We will attend the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation. > If you are interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a conversation and coffee. > > The code will be available at least before the hackathon event. > > thank you, > Kaname Nishizuka > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *Subject: * > > > > [hackathon] DOTS > > *Date: * > > > > Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:16:29 +0900 > > *From: * > > > > kaname nishizuka > > *To: * > > > > hackathon@ietf.org > > > > Hi, > > > *DOTS* > > §Champion(s) > > §Kaname Nishizuka > > §Koji Okada > > §Project(s) > > §DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS). > > §The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, classification, traceback, and mitigation. > > §We develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest specifications. > > §The goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user scenarios. > > §In addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if there is an opportunity. > > §Specifications > > §https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02 > > §https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02 > > §Implementation > > §The code will be available at [will be opened soon] > > We added a new project to the list. > > regards, > > Kaname Nishizuka > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --------------998FF6D21FD37A40B83B9A4E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank,

Even the time is limited, we can collaborate by discussing the implementations and the specifications.
Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful hackathon. I'm looking forward to collaborating with you.

see you then,
Kaname

On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:

Hi Kaname,

Thanks for leading this implementation work of DOTS.

I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little bit at Saturday afternoon.

 

See you then!

 

B.R.

Frank

 

发件人: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 kaname nishizuka
发送时间: 2017年6月30日 13:01
收件人: dots@ietf.org
主题: [Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS

 

Hi,

We will attend the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation.
If you are interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a conversation and coffee.

The code will be available at least before the hackathon event.

thank you,
Kaname Nishizuka



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:

[hackathon] DOTS

Date:

Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:16:29 +0900

From:

kaname nishizuka <kaname@nttv6.jp>

To:

hackathon@ietf.org



Hi,


DOTS

§  Champion(s)

§  Kaname Nishizuka

§  Koji Okada

§  Project(s)

§  DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS).

§  The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, classification, traceback, and mitigation.

§  We develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest specifications.

§  The goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user scenarios.

§  In addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if there is an opportunity.

§  Specifications

§  Implementation

§  The code will be available at [will be opened soon]

 

We added a new project to the list.

regards,

Kaname Nishizuka



_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

--------------998FF6D21FD37A40B83B9A4E-- From nobody Thu Jul 13 08:40:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA2C126C2F for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 08:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HXIBzbPTbAEq for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 08:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taper.sei.cmu.edu (taper.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7D11124BE8 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 08:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korb.sei.cmu.edu (korb.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.30]) by taper.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6DFeeNi030247 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:40:40 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 taper.sei.cmu.edu v6DFeeNi030247 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1499960440; bh=hQj4dkDNe9HSN3H8TJmkirE3EF8B7ogHMarbohrE4GM=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=YooU4mqXVQXeJPvFf1cnxo0p2q9dRD1uyvfonSEetcnV4omOpvSVS2E37xkWc1sQy Qr8XCNolC7MLI5siUltdk1lhjQkGixhQFYab6aq/1Q7nMF1J6DCQ4bTKzJ83vayG+P E3LoiWvK395M3XDfQVnZOunqlUpKzdwrNtPL038Q= Received: from CASCADE.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cascade.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.248]) by korb.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6DFed9Y003998 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:40:39 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASCADE.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.248]) with mapi id 14.03.0351.000; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:40:39 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "'dots@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: IETF 99 DOTS Agenda Thread-Index: AdL73gHjh4irZ8nQSaaVn/Eye+2T0w== Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:40:38 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC0104F9AC18@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] IETF 99 DOTS Agenda X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:40:43 -0000 Hello WG! A meeting for DOTS during IETF 99 has been scheduled for Thursday, July 20,= 2017 at 15:50-17:50 (Afternoon Session II) in the Berlin/Brussels room. B= ased on WG input, the agenda was refined as follows: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/meeting/99/agenda/dots/. We'll have a design team earlier in the week, the details of which will be = forthcoming. Safe travels to Prague. Roman From nobody Sat Jul 15 01:33:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97B91317BE for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:33:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m27lL98YBTHe for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E09127058 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:6::f]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id B7F1625F69F for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 17:33:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from dhcp-8879.meeting.ietf.org (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id DAD0976351E for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 17:33:07 +0900 (JST) From: kaname nishizuka To: "dots@ietf.org" References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:36:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4DAEDFC5383E97496B17BFC4" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:33:13 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4DAEDFC5383E97496B17BFC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, We finally made it public. https://github.com/nttdots/go-dots During the hackathon event, we will: * make the code easy to be deployed in various environments. * make demonstration of some of the user scenarios. * update and clarify the documents we need feedback from you. thanks again for people who have been waiting for godot(s) ;) thanks, Kaname On 2017/07/05 5:54, kaname nishizuka wrote: > Hi Frank, > > Even the time is limited, we can collaborate by discussing the implementations and the specifications. > Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful hackathon. I'm looking forward to collaborating with you. > > see you then, > Kaname > > On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) wrote: >> >> Hi Kaname, >> >> Thanks for leading this implementation work of DOTS. >> >> I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little bit at Saturday afternoon. >> >> See you then! >> >> B.R. >> >> Frank >> >> *发件人:*Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *kaname nishizuka >> *发送时间:*2017年6月30日13:01 >> *收件人:*dots@ietf.org >> *主题:*[Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS >> >> Hi, >> >> We will attend the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation. >> If you are interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a conversation and coffee. >> >> The code will be available at least before the hackathon event. >> >> thank you, >> Kaname Nishizuka >> >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> >> *Subject: * >> >> >> >> [hackathon] DOTS >> >> *Date: * >> >> >> >> Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:16:29 +0900 >> >> *From: * >> >> >> >> kaname nishizuka >> >> *To: * >> >> >> >> hackathon@ietf.org >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> *DOTS* >> >> §Champion(s) >> >> §Kaname Nishizuka >> >> §Koji Okada >> >> §Project(s) >> >> §DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS). >> >> §The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, classification, traceback, and mitigation. >> >> §We develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest specifications. >> >> §The goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user scenarios. >> >> §In addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if there is an opportunity. >> >> §Specifications >> >> §https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02 >> >> §https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02 >> >> §Implementation >> >> §The code will be available at [will be opened soon] >> >> We added a new project to the list. >> >> regards, >> >> Kaname Nishizuka >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dots mailing list >> Dots@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --------------4DAEDFC5383E97496B17BFC4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi,

We finally made it public.
https://github.com/nttdots/go-dots

During the hackathon event, we will:
 * make the code easy to be deployed in various environments.
 * make demonstration of some of the user scenarios.
 * update and clarify the documents
we need feedback from you.

thanks again for people who have been waiting for godot(s) ;)

thanks,
Kaname

On 2017/07/05 5:54, kaname nishizuka wrote:
Hi Frank,

Even the time is limited, we can collaborate by discussing the implementations and the specifications.
Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful hackathon. I'm looking forward to collaborating with you.

see you then,
Kaname

On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:

Hi Kaname,

Thanks for leading this implementation work of DOTS.

I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little bit at Saturday afternoon.

 

See you then!

 

B.R.

Frank

 

发件人: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 kaname nishizuka
发送时间: 2017年6月30日 13:01
收件人: dots@ietf.org
主题: [Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS

 

Hi,

We will attend the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation.
If you are interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a conversation and coffee.

The code will be available at least before the hackathon event.

thank you,
Kaname Nishizuka



-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:

[hackathon] DOTS

Date:

Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:16:29 +0900

From:

kaname nishizuka <kaname@nttv6.jp>

To:

hackathon@ietf.org



Hi,


DOTS

§  Champion(s)

§  Kaname Nishizuka

§  Koji Okada

§  Project(s)

§  DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS).

§  The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, classification, traceback, and mitigation.

§  We develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest specifications.

§  The goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user scenarios.

§  In addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if there is an opportunity.

§  Specifications

§  Implementation

§  The code will be available at [will be opened soon]

 

We added a new project to the list.

regards,

Kaname Nishizuka



_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots




_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

--------------4DAEDFC5383E97496B17BFC4-- From nobody Sat Jul 15 01:42:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF81512EC19 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:42:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.99 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.99 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verisign.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v2Pu7htyaTj5 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.verisign.com (mail2.verisign.com [72.13.63.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19561127058 for ; 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Sat, 15 Jul 2017 04:42:38 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 04:42:37 -0400 From: "Teague, Nik" To: kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public Thread-Index: AQHS/UZPDfksnJsByEubOo8RTQFVeg== Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:42:36 +0000 Message-ID: <2ED54B3B-0FBC-4F68-AACA-FF84C3929FCD@verisign.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.23.0.170610 x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2ED54B3B0FBC4F68AACAFF84C3929FCDverisigncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9wbVux79VKX; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:47:13 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.244.2.100] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CCA2BE53; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:47:13 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1500115633; bh=yFaOPgI9UVXp4+l7HUeTesYeMk9NPQyl/F5s125vwwo=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=U/Dh9ELJ6lrX+KgQgmyDkN16IJgNGHdpbm24IeBgMG2THdf6AJT5DDTCbcxaX0VHa KHXXEr/uUjt1Y4dczw4IUsbQ9p5aoyfu5yXkI3u+FuStRmWnVM8eJvgUCu5JDKS1Ge NPcAz+pAN2XuWyAJH85QDR59Ok4lQNASgJ3Bdj8U= To: kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:47:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sB4Eh3tv9quxBN8XlfBOI9wWxGBb8aVJw" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --sB4Eh3tv9quxBN8XlfBOI9wWxGBb8aVJw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3Jo6OpdenKd8XfR0unKjsWrBg1aAemGOA"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: --3Jo6OpdenKd8XfR0unKjsWrBg1aAemGOA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15/07/17 09:36, kaname nishizuka wrote: > thanks again for people who have been waiting for godot(s) ;) That's gotta win pun of the week:-) S. --3Jo6OpdenKd8XfR0unKjsWrBg1aAemGOA-- --sB4Eh3tv9quxBN8XlfBOI9wWxGBb8aVJw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZafKwAAoJEC88hzaAX42iG4MH/i9XFRGWN0BpOktR/JNBfS7l xqyne27nCIRlytt18eVU58rH9MbNochaGSKNixBIJHbwvJhqfdv9ZhE5H+d8DZrF g3p/BaNTeKwz1Z2GLiCFw9mOWCqs42M6kN15TVDA4/YUtxWD8X/Dh8nDFb7aAyvK gnZQZ2yapm/B5KbhbswydqzdL9FXimZeJNbVxnzzsf4PANVbfJv+2N/+oa3haKQ5 1dvjZKnsRAfrh41QVT6tp+F4NJm9sFDahdJN3K4YH13udj/k0kQDSiwgQs0dj7KC G+L3erxivcbExrMs0wUUGe6BWJVC0pHBZahITIeSv1t62J9jqZF8dK0x4cYh95c= =aLzu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sB4Eh3tv9quxBN8XlfBOI9wWxGBb8aVJw-- From nobody Sat Jul 15 22:53:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA8F126B7F for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:53:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jug21Xr3NMOj for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B6BB120726 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRF15347; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:53:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.39) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 06:53:29 +0100 Received: from DGGEML502-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.84]) by DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b177:a243:7a69:5ab8%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:53:26 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank)" To: Stephen Farrell , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public Thread-Index: AQHS/UUZBykho9TCXE6IMJyjy/0qWqJULsaAgAHGRkA= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:53:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8aafcc2d-b9df-eb50-d3e6-268584c00d03@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.78.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.596AFF5A.0061, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.84, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 9413acbf252ba410e808936590e47144 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 05:53:34 -0000 QWdyZWUgbm8gbW9yZSENCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBE b3RzIFttYWlsdG86ZG90cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgU3RlcGhlbiBG YXJyZWxsDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBKdWx5IDE1LCAyMDE3IDEyOjQ3IFBNDQo+IFRvOiBr YW5hbWUgbmlzaGl6dWthOyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRG90c10gW2hh Y2thdGhvbl0gb3VyIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIGlzIG5vdyBwdWJsaWMNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4g T24gMTUvMDcvMTcgMDk6MzYsIGthbmFtZSBuaXNoaXp1a2Egd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gdGhhbmtzIGFn YWluIGZvciBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGhhdmUgYmVlbiB3YWl0aW5nIGZvciBnb2RvdChzKSA7KQ0KPiAN Cj4gVGhhdCdzIGdvdHRhIHdpbiBwdW4gb2YgdGhlIHdlZWs6LSkNCj4gDQo+IFMuDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jul 17 00:10:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72082131725 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:10:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3XKJGF5RatBN for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C30A8131715 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 37FA6100999 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 1BFD740087 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4bd:9b2b:3651:6fba%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:10:54 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHS/sMG3EDq4mt6hUaVY4ofXZADQ6JXmeOg Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:10:54 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A00CA60@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <150027165667.32699.12937756155229066414@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150027165667.32699.12937756155229066414@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] TR: I-D Action: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:10:58 -0000 Dear all, FWIW, an updated version of this draft is available online. Please review and share your comments. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 17 juillet 2017 08:08 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > Signaling (DOTS) Server Discovery > Authors : Mohamed Boucadair > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Prashanth Patil > Filename : draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2017-07-16 >=20 > Abstract: > It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an > attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under > attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is > under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are > undertaken. >=20 > This document specifies mechanisms to configure nodes with DOTS > servers. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server- > discovery-02 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery= -02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon Jul 17 04:48:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1350D131B3C for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:48:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.297 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org header.d=gondrom.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQITESSVl_4X for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gondrom.org (www.gondrom.org [5.35.241.16]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D6121287A5 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seraph (dhcp-8f4b.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.75]) by gondrom.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B92B636A9 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:48:40 +0200 (CEST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=gondrom.org; b=p6f6Cpfa2oKZ+6u+z6OSQdxOh6u4OjhnNz9y9O/CXYt1UwAfzJD5C2/QD9XfAbV1BckAeaFJZebACDdVgpSY4K2S+4JbinxtMEIxqSUc/Dxi21g/v5bBDZ821E3oT9ZdgyNkJ/amCnL12KjChnjU4BWf1/PfHWHnOO+cxLDosiE=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:Thread-Index:Content-Language; From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:48:34 +0200 Message-ID: <03e501d2fef2$a0951030$e1bf3090$@gondrom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03E6_01D2FF03.641ECA90" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Importance: High Thread-Index: AdL+8plLWsedy96RQcOXu0V+gS4JTg== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] DOTS Design team meetings on July-18 12:30-13:30 and July-19 12:30-13:30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:48:44 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01D2FF03.641ECA90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear DOTS WG, Following the good use of design team meetings during our last IETF meeting, Roman and I would like to offer you again 2 design team meeting slots: Tuesday July-18 at 12:30 - 13:30 local time (Prague) Room: Roma, IETF 99 venue Design team meeting for open questions for use cases & architecture. I also noticed there were some questions about multi-homing and auto-provisioning. If we complete the topic early, we will move on to any open Protocol discussions Wednesday July-19 at 12:30 - 13:30 local time (Prague) Room: Roma, IETF 99 venue Design team meeting for Protocol discussion Note: if we finish everything on Tuesday, then we will cancel this slot after our design meeting tomorrow. All Design team meetings are open to everyone. If necessary, we can open a skype connection in case someone is interested to listen in remotely. (just send me an email with your skype ID and I will connect you in.) Best wishes and see you tomorrow, Tobias & Roman DOTS chairs ------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01D2FF03.641ECA90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear DOTS WG,

 

Following = the good use of design team meetings during our last IETF meeting, Roman = and I would like to offer you again 2 design team meeting slots: =

 

Tuesday July-18 at 12:30 – 13:30 local time = (Prague)

Room: Roma, IETF 99 = venue

Design team meeting for = open questions for use cases & architecture. I also noticed there = were some questions about multi-homing and auto-provisioning. =

If we complete the topic early, we = will move on to any open Protocol discussions

 

Wednesday = July-19 at 12:30 – 13:30 local time (Prague)

Room: Roma, IETF 99 venue

Design team meeting for Protocol = discussion

Note: if we finish = everything on Tuesday, then we will cancel this slot after our design = meeting tomorrow.

 

All = Design team meetings are open to everyone.

If necessary, we can open a skype connection in case = someone is interested to listen in remotely. (just send me an email with = your skype ID and I will connect you in…)

 

Best wishes = and see you tomorrow,

 

Tobias & = Roman

DOTS chairs

 

------=_NextPart_000_03E6_01D2FF03.641ECA90-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:18:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBBD4131BDC for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:18:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.991 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.991 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org header.d=gondrom.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oWsOFZNeI-FA for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gondrom.org (www.gondrom.org [5.35.241.16]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C9E11204DA for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seraph (dhcp-8f4b.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.75]) by gondrom.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E9175634DB; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:18:37 +0200 (CEST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=gondrom.org; b=pEEkL0MgsjsWDOcr0B2HUcvajwOIscVn8nnaJkyRc5u2iFcUNboQYcNZkTvoQVESEN6LFGmTYel2632ebp+EowfYZ6f8QWvsUFLgs/1tFeVx7pz6jwCNcRA+UNBdyBzgJLI0mtFJ3VaYRy6OkvbTpq2yjKdLQeu/vPowfJCluc4=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; From: "Tobias Gondrom" To: "'Teague, Nik'" , "'kaname nishizuka'" , References: <2ED54B3B-0FBC-4F68-AACA-FF84C3929FCD@verisign.com> In-Reply-To: <2ED54B3B-0FBC-4F68-AACA-FF84C3929FCD@verisign.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:18:36 +0200 Message-ID: <00d301d2ff07$953702b0$bfa50810$@gondrom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D4_01D2FF18.58C1F590" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKHcqqPrP7lqDbNoaHhY9/NOSrzaqDvKb/g Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:18:43 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01D2FF18.58C1F590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great! Very cool.=20 Thanks a lot,=20 Tobias =20 From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Teague, Nik Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2017 10:43 AM To: kaname nishizuka ; dots@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our implementation is now public =20 Kaname =E2=80=93 that=E2=80=99s really cool! =20 Thanks for releasing this. =20 -Nik =20 On 15/07/2017, 09:36, "Dots on behalf of kaname nishizuka" = on behalf of = kaname@nttv6.jp > wrote: =20 Hi, We finally made it public. https://github.com/nttdots/go-dots During the hackathon event, we will: * make the code easy to be deployed in various environments. * make demonstration of some of the user scenarios. * update and clarify the documents=20 we need feedback from you. thanks again for people who have been waiting for godot(s) ;) thanks, Kaname On 2017/07/05 5:54, kaname nishizuka wrote: Hi Frank, Even the time is limited, we can collaborate by discussing the = implementations and the specifications. Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful hackathon. I'm looking = forward to collaborating with you. see you then, Kaname On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) wrote: Hi Kaname, Thanks for leading this implementation work of DOTS. I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little = bit at Saturday afternoon. =20 See you then! =20 B.R. Frank =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 kaname nishizuka =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 = 13:01 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: dots@ietf.org =20 =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS =20 Hi, We will attend the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation. If you are interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a = conversation and coffee. The code will be available at least before the hackathon event. thank you, Kaname Nishizuka -------- Forwarded Message --------=20 Subject:=20 [hackathon] DOTS Date:=20 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:16:29 +0900 From:=20 kaname nishizuka To:=20 hackathon@ietf.org =20 Hi, DOTS * Champion(s) * Kaname Nishizuka * Koji Okada * Project(s) * DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS). * The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the = realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling = requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, = classification, traceback, and mitigation. * We develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest = specifications. * The goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user = scenarios. * In addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts = works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if = there is an opportunity. * Specifications * = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02 * = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02 * Implementation * The code will be available at [will be opened soon] =20 We added a new project to the list. regards, Kaname Nishizuka _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01D2FF18.58C1F590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great! Very cool.

Thanks a lot,

Tobias

 

From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Teague, = Nik
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2017 10:43 AM
To: = kaname nishizuka <kaname@nttv6.jp>; = dots@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dots] [hackathon] our = implementation is now public

 

Kaname =E2=80=93 that=E2=80=99s really cool!

 

Thanks for releasing this.

 

-Nik

 

On 15/07/2017, 09:36, "Dots on behalf of = kaname nishizuka" <dots-bounces@ietf.org on = behalf of kaname@nttv6.jp> = wrote:

 

Hi,

We finally made it public.
https://github.com/nttdots/go= -dots

During the hackathon event, we will:
 * make = the code easy to be deployed in various environments.
 * make = demonstration of some of the user scenarios.
 * update and = clarify the documents
we need feedback from you.

thanks again = for people who have been waiting for godot(s) = ;)

thanks,
Kaname

On 2017/07/05 5:54, kaname nishizuka = wrote:

Hi Frank,

Even the time is limited, we can = collaborate by discussing the implementations and the = specifications.
Feedback from WG members is a key of a successful = hackathon. I'm looking forward to collaborating with you.

see you = then,
Kaname

On 2017/07/03 11:11, Xialiang (Frank) = wrote:

Hi Kaname,

Thanks for leading this implementation work of = DOTS.

I will join this work, but the only problem is I will arrive a little = bit at Saturday afternoon.

 

See you then!

 

B.R.

Frank

 

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:<= /span> Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 kaname = nishizuka
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8830=E6=97=A5 = 13:01
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: dots@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:= [Dots] Fwd: [hackathon] DOTS

 

Hi,

We will attend = the hackathon in Prague with the dots implementation.
If you are = interested in, please feel free to join us or drop in for a conversation = and coffee.

The code will be available at least before the = hackathon event.

thank you,
Kaname = Nishizuka



-------- Forwarded Message -------- =

Subject:

[hackathon] = DOTS

Date:

Fri, 30 Jun 2017 = 10:16:29 +0900

From:

kaname nishizuka = <kaname@nttv6.jp>

To:

hackathon@ietf.org

<= /td>



Hi,


DOTS

=C2=A7  C= hampion(s)

    • K= aname Nishizuka
    • K= oji Okada

=C2=A7  P= roject(s)

    • D= DoS Open Threat Signaling = (DOTS).

=C2=A7  T= he aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime = signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and = data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, = classification, traceback, and = mitigation.

    • W= e develop PoC code of the dots protocol based on the latest = specifications.

=C2=A7  T= he goal is to improve the code and demonstrate some of the user = scenarios.

=C2=A7  I= n addition to testing whether the specification of the latest drafts = works well, we'd like to test interoperability with other software if = there is an opportunity.

=C2=A7  S= pecifications

    • <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02" = title=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02"><= span = style=3D'color:#2B73B7;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02
    <= /ul>
    • <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02" = title=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02">https://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-02

=C2=A7  I= mplementation

    • T= he code will be available at [will be opened = soon]

 

We added a new project to the = list.

regards,

Kaname Nishizuka



______________________________________________=
_
Dots mailing =
list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/dots




______________________________________________=
_
Dots mailing =
list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/dots

 

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2017 14:52:24.8687 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR16MB1613 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6073> : inlines <5978> : streams <1754588> : uri <2464653> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:52:37 -0000 The updated draft discusses discovery of DOTS servers (manual/local configu= ration, DHCP, discovery using service resolution, mDNS/DNS-SD and anycast) = and auto-provisioning of DOTS client to authenticate to the DOTS server. -Tiru > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 12:41 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Subject: [Dots] TR: I-D Action: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.= txt >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > FWIW, an updated version of this draft is available online. >=20 > Please review and share your comments. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De=A0: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part d= e > > internet-drafts@ietf.org Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 17 juillet 2017 08:08 =C0= =A0: > > i-d-announce@ietf.org Objet=A0: I-D Action: > > draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > > > > > Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > > Signaling (DOTS) Server Discovery > > Authors : Mohamed Boucadair > > Tirumaleswar Reddy > > Prashanth Patil > > Filename : draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02.txt > > Pages : 21 > > Date : 2017-07-16 > > > > Abstract: > > It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an > > attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be unde= r > > attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > > Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is > > under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are > > undertaken. > > > > This document specifies mechanisms to configure nodes with DOTS > > servers. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery > > / > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-02 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server- > > discovery-02 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-boucadair-dots-server-discove= r > > y-02 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:50:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016661286B2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uoz5D6Ub-f0B for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veto.sei.cmu.edu (veto.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C852131DE4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korb.sei.cmu.edu (korb.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.30]) by veto.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6I9ohaL046624 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:43 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 veto.sei.cmu.edu v6I9ohaL046624 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1500371443; bh=3GRTy9mQTrf8aOIJMd64Apj5dUunLdLj2JsC4/AFuJA=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=iF454VpjqbPFEciRFhv7BZv3wTRYxdQVdn0tMMDodx+eWpMgNgBxPLZtxfF7UgJ3W irbJ+nMSHLN5XffFsLl1Hr1pCKG/bb1mjbETZDsNVmE0Uo3GbPgX85iVDMdJM1qg59 agew1t+cVZLqD1B/h8StuuvTfyYDr1UaJuD11OtE= Received: from CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cassina.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.249]) by korb.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6I9ofax018838 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:42 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.249]) with mapi id 14.03.0351.000; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:41 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "'dots@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Feedback on draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 Thread-Index: AdL/qTP2nagZ2msaRZ2HRB/2rdvV0A== Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC0104F9E946@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Feedback on draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:50:51 -0000 Hello! (Hat off) I read the updated (-06) use case document (draft-ietf-dots-use-cases) and = wanted to share my observations and comments on this significantly revised = version. They are as follows: (1) Section 1, There are numerous uses of the convention where multiple nou= ns are concatenated with a slash (e.g., "solution/services", "vendor/servic= e"), I'd recommend avoiding this style. (2) Section 1, paragraph 1. The third sentence, "Additionally, coordinatio= n of multiple ..." does not follow for me from the first two sentences or t= he concluding fourth sentence. (3) Section 1, paragraph 2. "... are broadly heterogeneous among different= vendors ...". The use of 'different' seems redundant to ' heterogeneous' = already being used. Also, per "... primary goal for DOTS is to provide a h= igh level interaction ...", I'd be clearer and say protocol (not interactio= n). s/As DDoS solutions/services are broadly heterogeneous among different vend= ors, the primary goal for DOTS is to provide a high level interaction with = these DDoS solutions/services such as initiating or terminating DDoS mitiga= tion assistance./ As DDoS solutions and services are heterogeneous, the primary goal for DOTS= is to provide a protocol for these DDoS solutions and services to interact= ./ (4) Section 1, paragraph 3. I wouldn't call out I2NSF explicitly as this r= eference will become dated over time and simply state "no orchestration". s/It should be noted that DOTS is not in and of itself intended to perform = orchestration functions duplicative of the functionality being developed by= the [I2NSF] WG; rather, DOTS is intended to allow devices, services, and a= pplications to request DDoS attack mitigation assistance and receive mitiga= tion status updates from systems of this nature./ DOTS is not intended to perform orchestration. Rather, DOTS intends to all= ow devices, services, and applications to request DDoS attack mitigation as= sistance and receive mitigation status updates./ (5) Section 1, paragraph 4. IMO, "The use cases ... presented ..." sentenc= e would be clearer without references to DOTS-enabled nodes. s/The use cases presented in the document are intended to provide examples = of communications interactions DOTS-enabled nodes in both inter- and intra-= organizational DDoS mitigation scenarios./ The use cases presented in the document are intended to provide examples of= communications interactions in DDoS mitigation scenarios./ (6) Section 3, An inconsistent style observation -- the use case titles use= the convention "end customer". However, in the write-ups of these use cas= es, "enterprise" is used. I'd recommend choosing one style. (7) Section 3.1.1, For me, the specificity of this use case (i.e., the spec= ific call out of an IDMS, the details of the provisioning) buried the what = should have been the simplest of use cases -- a single homed customer reque= sting help from an upstream. (8) Section 3.1.2, The second sentence of the second paragraph, "However, i= f two or more ..." was long and difficult to parse for me. I'd recommend d= ecomposing it. (9) Section 3.1.3, The difference in network topology of this use case from= 3.1.2 is clearly stated. How this difference manifests for DOTS isn't com= ing through for me in this text. (10) Section 3.1.4, Are the constraints defined in the opening sentence, "a= n enterprise that has a local DDoS detection and classification capability = and may or may not have an on-premise mitigation capability", necessary to = scope this use case. It seems to me that the second sentence is the key d= etail, "[t]he enterprise is contracted with an overlay DDoS mitigation serv= ice". (11) Section 3.1.5, 3.1.6, These examples don't seem that different than th= e base 3.1.1 example. (12) Section 3.2.1, The use case title was clear. However, the write-up mi= xed descriptions of attack patterns with different network types with how t= elemetry could be used. This level of detail made this use case difficult = to follow for me. (13) Section 3.2.2, The opening sentence of the first paragraph is not a co= mplete sentence, "In this use case, one or multiple telemetry systems or mo= nitoring devices like a flow collector monitor a network -- typically an IS= P network.". Perhaps, it could be restated as ... s/In this use case, one or multiple telemetry systems or monitoring devices= like a flow collector monitor a network -- typically an ISP network/ In this use case, one or more telemetry systems are deployed in the enterpr= ise/ (14) Section 3.2.2, There are various references to an orchestrator and wha= t it does in this section. However, in Section 1, it is stated that DOTS d= oes not perform orchestration. This seems incongruent to me. Roman From nobody Tue Jul 18 13:18:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9ED129AB2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:18:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W8OM4asWgcFk for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01on0132.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73CFE120721 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:48:20 -0000 On 18 Jul 2017, at 22:18, Mortensen, Andrew wrote: > the replacement of the homenet use case My view is that the replacement of this use-case is desirable, because as written it isn't materially different from the very first use-case, and utilizes a lot of verbiage to say essentially the same thing. It also contains incorrect implications that broadband access network operators commonly detect and classify DDoS attacks against their user-base via so-called 'DPI' technologies, and that this causes scalability problems for those operators. As noted below, this is not actually the case in the majority of broadband access networks. It posits a scenario which does not in fact reflect current and anticipated operational reality, and moots a putative problem which is not actually prevalent on broadband access networks in the context of DDoS mitigation. The citation of RFC7368 is also unwarranted, in my view. Whether IPv4 or IPv6 is utilized, the broadband access network model we see today is likely to continue for the foreseeable future, which means that these will primarily be eyeball networks. > * Are DDoS attacks against individual SOHO networks actually that > common? Yes, absolutely. They make up something between ~80% - ~85% of all DDoS attacks, by frequency, AFAICT. We've always seen them, but they've grown dramatically over the last 4 years or so - and this increase is directly linked to the rise of easily-accessible booter/stresser services. Many large broadband access operators see literally thousands of DDoS attacks/day directed towards their users. > * Are ISPs going to add attack detection capabilities to SOHO CPEs? > How soon? How widely? At some point. It'll be much later in the DOTS adoption cycle. If we foster a decent rate of DOTS adoption, it may be well-nigh universal. But that would be quite some time from now. And it's more likely that putting DOTS servers into CPE devices in order to suppress outbound/crossbound DDoS attack emanating from end-user networks at the point of ingress will come first, (which is mischaracterized in the HOME-NET write-up as being somehow unsupported by the current proposed DOTS architecture), IMHO. Broadband access operators typically make use of flow telemetry-based detection/classification/traceback systems to identify DDoS attacks, just as other categories of network operators do. They also use many of the same mitigation techniques, but in different proportions (due to the fact that most of the nodes on those networks are clients, not servers in IDCs). So, both their current and medium-term future detection/classification/traceback/mitigation strategies are pretty similar to those utilized on other types of networks. The main difference is that broadband access networks are also emitters of DDoS attacks - either directly from compromised nodes (think Mirai and the ilk) or misconfigured CPE devices which are abused as reflectors/amplifiers. So, outbound attack suppression is also a major priority for them (as it should be for all network operators; sadly, many only focus on inbound attacks and neglect outbound/crossbound). Their inter- and intra-organizational DOTS architectures will look very similar to those of other types of network operators, with the addition of a focus on outbound/crossbound attack suppression, which is described in the new broadband access network use-case. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From nobody Tue Jul 18 13:53:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46E3129B64 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:52:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VJy8SO3yMRuQ for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:52:59 -0000 On 18 Jul 2017, at 22:48, Roland Dobbins wrote: > The main difference is that broadband access networks are also > emitters of DDoS attacks This isn't to say that other types of network operators, such as colocation, hosting, VPS, IaaS, transit providers aren't also sources of DDoS attacks - they often are. But the operators of broadband access networks in particular are very focused on this issue due to the widespread collateral impact these outbound/crossbound attacks have on user bases often numbering into the tens of millions. Other types of network operators should also take into account outbound/crossbound DDoS attacks, because they can be highly disruptive on those networks, as well. Sadly, awareness of this issue hasn't yet permeated as broadly amongst many of these operators as it has on the broadband access side of things. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From nobody Tue Jul 18 19:49:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E2E1296CF for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:49:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tr8v_YUDMwrh for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 138BF127010 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2a00:1028:8386:dd76:a4e6:9827:3048:8f59] (dynamic-2a00-1028-8386-dd76-a4e6-9827-3048-8f59.ipv6.broadband.iol.cz [IPv6:2a00:1028:8386:dd76:a4e6:9827:3048:8f59]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v6J2neOk095901 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:49:42 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host dynamic-2a00-1028-8386-dd76-a4e6-9827-3048-8f59.ipv6.broadband.iol.cz [IPv6:2a00:1028:8386:dd76:a4e6:9827:3048:8f59] claimed to be [IPv6:2a00:1028:8386:dd76:a4e6:9827:3048:8f59] To: "Mortensen, Andrew" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> From: joel jaeggli Message-ID: <91372e1e-28e8-b71c-0e6e-f0087074cb70@bogus.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 04:49:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:55.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/55.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="th7bDm7dfCT1vkaq5P4ldPHjQAWecpMcC" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:49:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --th7bDm7dfCT1vkaq5P4ldPHjQAWecpMcC Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="sSq91Jtn6u92obqjeDf9kxhK309PMoPRB"; protected-headers="v1" From: joel jaeggli To: "Mortensen, Andrew" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: <91372e1e-28e8-b71c-0e6e-f0087074cb70@bogus.com> Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions References: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> In-Reply-To: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> --sSq91Jtn6u92obqjeDf9kxhK309PMoPRB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/18/17 22:18, Mortensen, Andrew wrote: > Today=E2=80=99s design team meeting focused on the use case document, a= nd particularly the replacement of the homenet use case with a broadband = access network use case. Based on the discussion, I=E2=80=99m apparently = the unwitting proximate motivator for that change. Because my off-list qu= estions seem to have informed the revision, I thought the most appropriat= e thing to do under the circumstances would be to bring those same questi= ons to the list for discussion. >=20 > The specific questions I asked of one of use case editors were as follo= ws: >=20 > * Are DDoS attacks against individual SOHO networks actually that commo= n? Yes, or at least common enough that access-providers have to mitigate them to protect their own infrastracture, the customer and the customers neighbors in the case of shared resource access networks. > * Are ISPs going to add attack detection capabilities to SOHO CPEs? How= soon? How widely? In my experience detection is done via ipfix / sflow and statistical analysis. and mitigatation is generally done by null routing the destination, or scrubbing (i've seen your gear doing this albiet nowhere near the access network), or occasionally with recourse to something like bgp flowspec. null-routing a customer ip obviously has implications for being able to communicate with it depending where that route is install), obviously inband bidirectional communication with a cpe may be hard when the link to it is melting. > Since these off-list questions seem ultimately to have led to the heate= d discussion during today=E2=80=99s design team meeting, I=E2=80=99d appr= eciate WG comments on them to help get this issue out of the way as the u= se cases draft moves toward WGLC. Thanks. >=20 > andrew > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 --sSq91Jtn6u92obqjeDf9kxhK309PMoPRB-- --th7bDm7dfCT1vkaq5P4ldPHjQAWecpMcC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlluyL0ACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrI22gCeMiFmT8TrhSQZlqXwDe2LYbD+ FPoAniXSt1NDO77j0iJ1mctka9fOOZOj =4w0F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --th7bDm7dfCT1vkaq5P4ldPHjQAWecpMcC-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:48:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A792129A92 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:48:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jul 2017 05:47:00.5632 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR16MB1616 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6074> : inlines <5981> : streams <1754817> : uri <2465710> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 05:48:26 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roland Dobbins > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:18 AM > To: dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions >=20 >=20 > On 18 Jul 2017, at 22:18, Mortensen, Andrew wrote: >=20 > > the replacement of the homenet use case >=20 > My view is that the replacement of this use-case is desirable, because as > written it isn't materially different from the very first use-case, and u= tilizes a > lot of verbiage to say essentially the same thing. >=20 > It also contains incorrect implications that broadband access network > operators commonly detect and classify DDoS attacks against their user-ba= se > via so-called 'DPI' technologies, and that this causes scalability proble= ms for > those operators. As noted below, this is not actually the case in the ma= jority > of broadband access networks. It posits a scenario which does not in fac= t > reflect current and anticipated operational reality, and moots a putative > problem which is not actually prevalent on broadband access networks in t= he > context of DDoS mitigation. >=20 > The citation of RFC7368 is also unwarranted, in my view. Whether IPv4 or > IPv6 is utilized, the broadband access network model we see today is like= ly to > continue for the foreseeable future, which means that these will primaril= y be > eyeball networks. >=20 > > * Are DDoS attacks against individual SOHO networks actually that > > common? >=20 > Yes, absolutely. They make up something between ~80% - ~85% of all DDoS > attacks, by frequency, AFAICT. We've always seen them, but they've grown > dramatically over the last 4 years or so - and this increase is directly = linked to > the rise of easily-accessible booter/stresser services. >=20 > Many large broadband access operators see literally thousands of DDoS > attacks/day directed towards their users. >=20 > > * Are ISPs going to add attack detection capabilities to SOHO CPEs? > > How soon? How widely? >=20 > At some point. It'll be much later in the DOTS adoption cycle. If we fo= ster a > decent rate of DOTS adoption, it may be well-nigh universal. >=20 > But that would be quite some time from now. And it's more likely that > putting DOTS servers into CPE devices in order to suppress > outbound/crossbound DDoS attack emanating from end-user networks at > the point of ingress will come first, (which is mischaracterized in the H= OME- > NET write-up as being somehow unsupported by the current proposed DOTS > architecture), IMHO. >=20 > Broadband access operators typically make use of flow telemetry-based > detection/classification/traceback systems to identify DDoS attacks, just= as > other categories of network operators do. They also use many of the same > mitigation techniques, but in different proportions (due to the fact that= most > of the nodes on those networks are clients, not servers in IDCs) Home networks also have servers that could be accessed anywhere from the in= ternet and could be subjected to DDoS attacks (see the discussion in https:= //tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7368#section-3.7.4 and a home network example in s= lide 8 of https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/179-ripe64_homenet_exp.pdf = used demonstrate the complexity of a home network).=20 CPE has to act as DOTS client to request mitigation for these servers and a= lso act as a DOTS server to learn about the compromised devices in the home= network launching DDoS attacks and to suppress the DDoS attack from these = devices. Further, the DOTS server on the CPE could itself be subjected to D= DoS attacks. Homenet needs a special mention because the CPE needs to play= dual role, but I agree that the text associated with the homenet use case = can be simplified. -Tiru >=20 > So, both their current and medium-term future > detection/classification/traceback/mitigation strategies are pretty simil= ar to > those utilized on other types of networks. The main difference is that > broadband access networks are also emitters of DDoS attacks - either dire= ctly > from compromised nodes (think Mirai and the > ilk) or misconfigured CPE devices which are abused as reflectors/amplifie= rs. > So, outbound attack suppression is also a major priority for them (as it > should be for all network operators; sadly, many only focus on inbound > attacks and neglect outbound/crossbound). >=20 > Their inter- and intra-organizational DOTS architectures will look very s= imilar > to those of other types of network operators, with the addition of a focu= s on > outbound/crossbound attack suppression, which is described in the new > broadband access network use-case. >=20 > ----------------------------------- > Roland Dobbins >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:59:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9A012869B for ; 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boundary="_000_58AE7B0F6DF84355815FE2F9EC2DDA48arbornet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arbor.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jul 2017 05:59:51.6923 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 54f11205-d4aa-4809-bd36-0b542199c5b2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR0101MB1039 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MWHPR16MB16140F88595701D015257F6DEAA60MWHPR16MB1614namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jul 2017 06:50:15.1408 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR16MB1613 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6074> : inlines <5981> : streams <1754823> : uri <2465733> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xIDfqw_IQrrS for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259E913170E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 507AD25F69F; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:50:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from SR2-nishizuka.local (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id B256876351E; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:50:10 +0900 (JST) To: "Mortensen, Andrew" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <349a7c1d-51e8-d2bf-f26a-ecaeb981dc0a@nttv6.jp> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:53:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:18 -0000 On 2017/07/18 22:18, Mortensen, Andrew wrote: > Today’s design team meeting focused on the use case document, and particularly the replacement of the homenet use case with a broadband access network use case. Based on the discussion, I’m apparently the unwitting proximate motivator for that change. Because my off-list questions seem to have informed the revision, I thought the most appropriate thing to do under the circumstances would be to bring those same questions to the list for discussion. > > The specific questions I asked of one of use case editors were as follows: > > * Are DDoS attacks against individual SOHO networks actually that common? Yes, it's common. For example, in an ISP with ~3M users in Japan, they observe ~1Gbps attack at least once a week in average. In order to protect users in the same aggregation router/switch which suffer from such attacks, we tend to use blackholing/acl technologies (using mitigation boxes is a richer option for the protection) How to automate it by the DOTS protocol should be addressed by our WG. > * Are ISPs going to add attack detection capabilities to SOHO CPEs? How soon? How widely? Yes, but from operator's point of view, there are options 1) DOTS client resides in CPE, 2) DOTS client resides in some monitoring system managed by ISP. 2) is easy to accomplish because attack detection capabilities already exist in some monitoring system of the broadband access network. 1) is only in planning phase, but we are trying to figure out that DOTS is worth to be deployed in (managed) CPE devices. We haven't think about DOTS server resides in CPE, because when we want to stop outgoing DDoS attacks from subscribers, we can do it on our access network. kaname > Since these off-list questions seem ultimately to have led to the heated discussion during today’s design team meeting, I’d appreciate WG comments on them to help get this issue out of the way as the use cases draft moves toward WGLC. Thanks. > > andrew > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Jul 19 01:00:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44314131C07 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 01:00:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wu20D8armXxM for ; 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Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:00:36 +0000 From: "Dobbins, Roland" To: kaname nishizuka CC: "Mortensen, Andrew" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] homenet use case questions Thread-Index: AQHTAAMIW+KjtePPy0qWM7hk51vlgqJayDoAgAAB9Xk= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:00:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4EA3DEC3-9687-487D-BAF1-0629F1DD226F@arbor.net> References: <81A54360-C60C-475D-81A4-96B0783E7884@arbor.net>, <349a7c1d-51e8-d2bf-f26a-ecaeb981dc0a@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <349a7c1d-51e8-d2bf-f26a-ecaeb981dc0a@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: nttv6.jp; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;nttv6.jp; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arbor.net; x-originating-ip: [2001:67c:370:128:cd61:99ce:c243:251c] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM5PR0101MB3113; 7: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 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2d516866-3215-41c1-67f9-08d4ce7c3d8c x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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Wed, 19 Jul 2017 04:07:36 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 04:07:35 -0400 From: "Teague, Nik" To: "Mortensen, Andrew" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] homenet use case questions Thread-Index: AQHTAGYUqS2y+R6reUe+VIueTM8CyQ== Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:07:35 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.23.0.170610 x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <773141AF889A3D4292D32184B84A6B63@verisign.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] homenet use case questions X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:07:39 -0000 T24gMTgvMDcvMjAxNywgMjI6MTgsICJEb3RzIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBNb3J0ZW5zZW4sIEFuZHJl dyIgPGRvdHMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgYW1vcnRlbnNlbkBhcmJvci5u ZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgKiBBcmUgRERvUyBhdHRhY2tzIGFnYWluc3QgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBT T0hPIG5ldHdvcmtzIGFjdHVhbGx5IHRoYXQgY29tbW9uPw0KDQpJIHdvdWxkIHNheSDigJh5ZXPi gJkg4oCTIEUuZy4gSeKAmXZlIHNwb2tlbiB0byBvbmUgcHJvdmlkZXIgaW4gdGhlIHBhc3QgdGhh dCBoYXZlIGNvbmNlcm5zIHJlZ2FyZGluZyBlYXN0L3dlc3QgRERvUyB0cmFmZmljIGFjcm9zcyB0 aGVpciBuZXR3b3JrIGJldHdlZW4gc3Vic2NyaWJlcnMuDQogICAgDQogICAgKiBBcmUgSVNQcyBn b2luZyB0byBhZGQgYXR0YWNrIGRldGVjdGlvbiBjYXBhYmlsaXRpZXMgdG8gU09ITyBDUEVzPyBI b3cgc29vbj8gSG93IHdpZGVseT8NCg0KSW4gdGhlIGluc3RhbmNlIEkgbWVudGlvbiwgdGhlcmUg d2FzIG5vIGluaXRpYWwgcGxhbiB0byBkbyBhbnl0aGluZyBvbiB0aGUgY3VzdG9tZXIgQ1BF4oCm ICANCg0KSGF2aW5nIHNhaWQgdGhhdCBET1RTIHdhc27igJl0IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhcyBhIChmdXR1 cmUpIG9wdGlvbiBhdCB0aGUgdGltZS4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KDQotTmlrDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jul 19 19:36:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA91129B4C for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 19:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sbGjwr0yhj6y for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 19:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2A18129ACD for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 19:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by wtl-exchp-1.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:36:02 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Some notes on ietf-dots-signal-channel-02 Thread-Index: AdMA7vzOFdFEa4W8RY6lSPNLnIlWkA== Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:36:01 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [217.75.209.98] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A906B8A4wtlexchp2sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Some notes on ietf-dots-signal-channel-02 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:36:06 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A906B8A4wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally I think the document is pretty good, but I found a number of ques= tions and nits. BTW, is this document in github? I was going to make a pull request, but co= uldn't find it. For target-protocol, I think could be clarified using this reference: https= ://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml There is missing information about some filters: fqdn: which FQDN is supposed to go here? I'm unclear on what would be mitig= ated? DNS? HTTP? uri: does this mean an HTTP resource is under attack? It doesn't say HTTP. lifetime: I recommend a very large number be used for no timeout. (this mi= ght be a pet peeve of mine, but why do people like to use 0 to mean infinit= e?) I think in the future we might want to use 0 to mean "end now". CBOR supports binary byte strings. Therefore I suggest that IP addresses be= represented as 4-byte or 16-byte byte-strings rather than the bulkier huma= n-readable strings that may require ~40 bytes. However, then prefixes would be represented like: "target-prefix": [ {"pref= ix": byte-string[16], "length": integer}] At this time I also suggest supporting IPv4-mapped-v6 addresses to unify IP= v4 and IPv6 code. Although multiple mitigation-ids may be set, this wording confused me: If two mitigation requests have overlapping mitigation scopes the mitigation request with higher numeric mitigation-id value will override the mitigation request with a lower numeric mitigation-id value This sounds like higher-valued IDs are supposed to replace smaller values. = But that isn't intended, I don't think. Both mitigation-IDs should be store= d, but that comment is about logic in scrubbing rules and attributing bytes= -dropped. I think there may be a race condition to consider, when we allow for reorde= ring: If this sequence is sent: PUT (ID=3D1) PUT (ID=3D1) DELETE (ID=3D1) But this sequence is received: PUT (ID=3D1) DELETE (ID=3D1) PUT (ID=3D1) Then the ID 1 will be incorrectly stored. The solution is that the server n= eeds to remember deleted IDs for some time. The URIs for PUT and DELETE are specified differently (v1 and version). I s= uspect they are intended to be the same, probably "v1" ? Currently the DELETE is specified to return an error if deleting something = not found. What is the value of this error? Why not always return 2.02, the= reby giving DELETE idempotent behavior. Regarding the 5min timeout after client DELETE, did we consider making that= configurable in the delete message? This could allow a client to be a bit = smarter. If timeout=3D0, it would mean stop right now. I'm unclear on how I would determine bps-dropped or pps-dropped. What time = denominator? (Generally I find rate measurements very difficult to compute = and explain in a way that makes everyone happy.) Can we just let the client= compute bytes/time ? The -dropped counters show a clear bias towards scrubbers that simply drop = packets. Are there other actions to be considered? E.g., DSCP marking? Regarding "status", I'm unclear on what code 2 means. It sounds like all tr= affic is being dropped, but I don't consider that the most successful outco= me. I think it might be better to say "Mitigation is in progress within cap= ability" (in contrast to "exceeded capability" code 4). Regarding "observe" It says, A DOTS client that is no longer interested in receiving notifications from the DOTS server can simply "forget" the observation. More specifically, doesn't it have to make the request with "Observe=3D1" ? I think there may be some race conditions with the "observe" option. E.g., these messages reordered: Observe=3D0 Observe=3D1 I'm not sure what the solution is. (I didn't really read RFC7641 to see if = it was discussed) The efficacy update seems to use the same URI as the one for requesting mit= igation. How would the server know which type of message? I suspect we inte= nded to use a different URI. Scanning the document, a second look at all of the URIs might be in order. = We want the URI to indicate the type of operation, not inferred from the co= ntent of the body. Regarding heartbeat, what are the consequences of failure? I'm unclear on w= hat action should be taken. Please note that when under attack, round-trip times might be VERY large du= e to buffer bloat. A colleague of mine measured ping times exceeding 60s in= a hotel! On that note, should we give guidance about application-layer time-outs? A = na=EFve implementation might pick something like 5s timeout. A client shoul= d be trying multiple transports and therefore have an async approach to wri= ting the application. 5.4.2 Configuration: why is this a POST? I think this should be PUT, like = the others, since the intent is to replace previous configuration. Regarding redirected signaling, where do you get response code 3.00 from? I= t isn't listed in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-12.1.2 or htt= ps://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#respons= e-codes . Can we use 3.00, or is there a reference you can add to the doc= ? Do we intend to prohibit large datagrams that will be fragmented? These are= not terrible, just perhaps less likely to all arrive. I think the wording = should say that multiple mitigation requests should be created to keep the = datagram size small. (I didn't read the security sections in detail, expecting them to change.) It looks like a lot of issues, but I think the comments are only possible b= ecause the document is good enough by having details. [Tip: track github issues for the points I've raised, if you cannot answer/= resolve them immediately] -Dave --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A906B8A4wtlexchp2sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Generally I think the document is pretty good, but I= found a number of questions and nits.

 

BTW, is this document in github? I was going to make= a pull request, but couldn’t find it.

 

 

For target-protocol, I think could be clarified usin= g this reference: https://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml

 

There is missing information about some filters:

fqdn: which FQDN is supposed to go here? I’m u= nclear on what would be mitigated? DNS? HTTP?

 

uri: does this mean an HTTP resource is under attack= ? It doesn’t say HTTP.

 

lifetime:  I recommend a very large number be u= sed for no timeout. (this might be a pet peeve of mine, but why do people l= ike to use 0 to mean infinite?)  I think in the future we might want t= o use 0 to mean “end now”.

 

 

CBOR supports binary byte strings. Therefore I sugge= st that IP addresses be represented as 4-byte or 16-byte byte-strings rathe= r than the bulkier human-readable strings that may require ~40 bytes.<= /o:p>

However, then prefixes would be represented like: &q= uot;target-prefix": [ {"prefix": byte-string[16], "leng= th": integer}]

 

At this time I also suggest supporting IPv4-mapped-v= 6 addresses to unify IPv4 and IPv6 code.

 

Although multiple mitigation-ids may be set, this wo= rding confused me:

   If two mitigation requests<= /p>

   have overlapping mitigation scopes the mitiga= tion request with higher

   numeric mitigation-id value will override the= mitigation request with

   a lower numeric mitigation-id value

This sounds like higher-valued IDs are supposed to r= eplace smaller values. But that isn’t intended, I don’t think. = Both mitigation-IDs should be stored, but that comment is about logic in sc= rubbing rules and attributing bytes-dropped.

 

I think there may be a race condition to consider, w= hen we allow for reordering:

If this sequence is sent:

  PUT  (ID=3D1)

  PUT (ID=3D1)

  DELETE (ID=3D1)

But this sequence is received:

  PUT (ID=3D1)

  DELETE (ID=3D1)

  PUT  (ID=3D1)

Then the ID 1 will be incorrectly stored. The soluti= on is that the server needs to remember deleted IDs for some time.

 

The URIs for PUT and DELETE are specified differentl= y (v1 and version). I suspect they are intended to be the same, probably &#= 8220;v1” ?

 

Currently the DELETE is specified to return an error= if deleting something not found. What is the value of this error? Why not = always return 2.02, thereby giving DELETE idempotent behavior.

 

Regarding the 5min timeout after client DELETE, did = we consider making that configurable in the delete message? This could allo= w a client to be a bit smarter. If timeout=3D0, it would mean stop right no= w.

 

I’m unclear on how I would determine bps-dropp= ed or pps-dropped. What time denominator? (Generally I find rate measuremen= ts very difficult to compute and explain in a way that makes everyone happy= .) Can we just let the client compute bytes/time ?

 

The –dropped counters show a clear bias toward= s scrubbers that simply drop packets. Are there other actions to be conside= red? E.g., DSCP marking?

 

Regarding “status”, I’m unclear on= what code 2 means. It sounds like all traffic is being dropped, but I don&= #8217;t consider that the most successful outcome. I think it might be bett= er to say “Mitigation is in progress within capability” (in contrast to “exceeded capability” code 4).

 

Regarding “observe” It says,<= /p> 

    A DOTS client that is no longer
   interested in receiving notifications from the DOTS serve=
r can simply
   "forget" the observation.

More specifically, doesn’t it have to make the= request with “Observe=3D1” ?

 

I think there may be some race conditions with the &= #8220;observe” option.

E.g., these messages reordered:

  Observe=3D0

  Observe=3D1

I’m not sure what the solution is. (I didnR= 17;t really read RFC7641 to see if it was discussed)

 

The efficacy update seems to use the same URI as the= one for requesting mitigation. How would the server know which type of mes= sage? I suspect we intended to use a different URI.

Scanning the document, a second look at all of the U= RIs might be in order. We want the URI to indicate the type of operation, n= ot inferred from the content of the body.

 

Regarding heartbeat, what are the consequences of fa= ilure? I’m unclear on what action should be taken.

Please note that when under attack, round-trip times= might be VERY large due to buffer bloat. A colleague of mine measured ping= times exceeding 60s in a hotel!

 

On that note, should we give guidance about applicat= ion-layer time-outs? A na=EFve implementation might pick something like 5s = timeout. A client should be trying multiple transports and therefore have a= n async approach to writing the application.

 

5.4.2 Configuration: why is this a POST?  I thi= nk this should be PUT, like the others, since the intent is to replace prev= ious configuration.

 

Regarding redirected signaling, where do you get res= ponse code 3.00 from? It isn’t listed in https://tool= s.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-12.1.2 or https://www.iana.org/assignments/core-parameters/core-parameters.xhtml#resp= onse-codes  .  Can we use 3.00, or is there a reference you c= an add to the doc?

 

Do we intend to prohibit large datagrams that will b= e fragmented? These are not terrible, just perhaps less likely to all arriv= e. I think the wording should say that multiple mitigation requests should = be created to keep the datagram size small.

 

(I didn’t read the security sections in detail= , expecting them to change.)

 

It looks like a lot of issues, but I think the comme= nts are only possible because the document is good enough by having details= .

 

[Tip: track github issues for the points I’ve = raised, if you cannot answer/resolve them immediately]

-Dave

 

 

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A906B8A4wtlexchp2sandvi_-- From nobody Thu Jul 20 02:14:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA7312FB9C; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:14:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.57.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150054207960.24225.15825210139987896939@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:14:39 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-07.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:14:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Use cases for DDoS Open Threat Signaling Authors : Roland Dobbins Daniel Migault Stefan Fouant Robert Moskowitz Nik Teague Liang Xia Kaname Nishizuka Filename : draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-07.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2017-07-20 Abstract: The DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) effort is intended to provide a protocol that facilitates interoperability between multivendor solutions/services. This document presents use cases to evaluate the interactions expected between the DOTS components as well as DOTS messaging exchanges. The purpose of describing use cases is to identify the interacting DOTS components, how they collaborate and what are the types of information to be exchanged. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 20 08:24:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CFE131CE6 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vs8YuSZY9pbG for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 08:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam03on0126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.40.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 634C3131CE2 for ; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:29:48 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roland, You made the following comments during the DOTS session: 1. Break out explicit configuration into local/manual and dynamic configura= tion. I reconfirm my answer. The current draft already follows that approac= h (see the excerpt below): =3D=3D 1. Explicit configuration: * Local/Manual Configuration: A DOTS client, by default, will learn the DOTS server(s) by means of local or manual DOTS configuration (i.e., DOTS servers configured at the system level). Configuration discovered from a DOTS client application is considered as local configuration. An implementation may give the user an opportunity (e.g., by means of configuration file options or menu items) to specify DOTS server(s) for each address family. * DHCP: The DOTS client attempts to discover DOTS server(s) names from DHCP by including a DOTS option code in the Option Request for IPv6 and Parameter Request List Option for IPv4, respectively. =3D=3D 2. Shorten the list to focus on the above two means: I hear this comment. I= would really appreciate if other WG participants share their thoughts on t= his before making changes to the draft (e.g., is there an interest to speci= fy how DNS-SD/mDNS can be used for automatic DOTS discovery, whether the gr= oup sees a value in reserving a anycast address for DOTS usage). Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Roland,

 

You made the following comments during the = DOTS session:

 

1. Break out explicit configuration into lo= cal/manual and dynamic configuration. I reconfirm my answer. The current dr= aft already follows that approach (see the excerpt below):

 

=3D=3D

   1.&nbs= p; Explicit configuration:

 

   &= nbsp;   *  Local/Manual Configuration: A DOTS client, by def= ault, will

   &= nbsp;      learn the DOTS server(s) by means of lo= cal or manual DOTS

   &= nbsp;      configuration (i.e., DOTS servers confi= gured at the system

   &= nbsp;      level).  Configuration discovered = from a DOTS client

   &= nbsp;      application is considered as local conf= iguration.  An

   &= nbsp;      implementation may give the user an opp= ortunity (e.g., by

   &= nbsp;      means of configuration file options or = menu items) to specify

   &= nbsp;      DOTS server(s) for each address family.=

 

   &= nbsp;   *  DHCP: The DOTS client attempts to discover DOTS s= erver(s)

   &= nbsp;      names from DHCP by including a DOTS opt= ion code in the Option

   &= nbsp;      Request for IPv6 and Parameter Request = List Option for IPv4,

   &= nbsp;      respectively.

 

=3D=3D

 

2. Shorten the list to focus on the above t= wo means: I hear this comment. I would really appreciate if other WG partic= ipants share their thoughts on this before making changes to the draft (e.g., is there an interest to specify how DNS-SD/mDN= S can be used for automatic DOTS discovery, whether the group sees a value = in reserving a anycast address for DOTS usage).     

 

Cheers,

Med

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Thu Jul 20 23:43:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5B11250B8 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QJkeY9_70Wvs for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8DE1124D85 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2D8B8180587 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:43:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.2]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 079B7120083 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:43:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:43:16 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Multihoming & Requirements I-D Thread-Index: AdMB7J9UMsgK1k4tR6G+2SshwpeLvw== Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:43:15 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:43:20 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, As discussed during the DOTS session in Prague (and confirmed in the many s= ide meetings I had after the multi-homing presentation), there is an agreem= ent that multi-homing is key for DOTS architecture. I'm initiating this thread so that we can figure out collectively how to in= clude that item to the DOTS requirements I-D. Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

As discussed during the DOTS session in Pra= gue (and confirmed in the many side meetings I had after the multi-homing p= resentation), there is an agreement that multi-homing is key for DOTS architecture.

 

I’m initiating this thread so that we= can figure out collectively how to include that item to the DOTS requireme= nts I-D.  

 

Cheers,

Med

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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:23:05 -0000 On 21 Jul 2017, at 8:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > I'm initiating this thread so that we can figure out collectively how > to include that item to the DOTS requirements I-D. AFAICT, the only consideration is to ensure bidirectional routability per sound network engineering practices - i.e., nothing DOTS-specific. We've always assumed that multi-homing would be present in many environments in which DOTS will be used. There is nothing in the DOTS architecture which precludes its use in multi-homing environments. So, apart from emphasizing that sound network engineering practices be utilized, it's unclear why this is being treated as some exceptional problem we haven't considered, when in fact we've been aware of it and supported multi-homed environments from the outset of the DOTS effort. Please keep in mind that proprietary DOTS analogues have been in production use for many years, and so there is a considerable degree of real-world experience and expertise in using signaling mechanisms to initiate DDoS mitigation, both from upstream transit providers and topologically-distant MSSPs. Several of the active DOTS contributors have hands-on experience in such environments. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From nobody Fri Jul 21 00:39:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D532D12714F for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:39:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mNgYuWDO2Jvk for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02123124217 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 697EDC01F4; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:39:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.34]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3FF041A007F; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:39:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bd00:88f8:8552:3349%17]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:39:03 +0200 From: To: Roland Dobbins , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D Thread-Index: AdMB7J9UMsgK1k4tR6G+2SshwpeLv///6YsA///czsA= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:39:02 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0117A1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <9C775E38-299E-449D-922E-69DD62E9ED04@arbor.net> In-Reply-To: <9C775E38-299E-449D-922E-69DD62E9ED04@arbor.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:39:07 -0000 Hi Roland,=20 Thank you for sharing your thoughts.=20 Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Roland Dobbins > Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 21 juillet 2017 09:23 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D >=20 > On 21 Jul 2017, at 8:43, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >=20 > > I'm initiating this thread so that we can figure out collectively how > > to include that item to the DOTS requirements I-D. >=20 > AFAICT, the only consideration is to ensure bidirectional routability > per sound network engineering practices - i.e., nothing DOTS-specific. >=20 [Med] That's one aspect, but as discussed in the draft this is not the only= aspect. I agree the DOTS protocol is the same, but how DOTS associations a= re maintained, how servers are selected and how requests are placed are add= itional considerations to take into account.=20 > We've always assumed that multi-homing would be present in many > environments in which DOTS will be used. There is nothing in the DOTS > architecture which precludes its use in multi-homing environments. [Med] The problem is that if you just run a dots client/gateway which is co= nform to the DOTS architecture specification, DDoS mitigation may fail. I c= ited many examples in my prez; no need to go through that list here.=20 =20 So, > apart from emphasizing that sound network engineering practices be > utilized, it's unclear why this is being treated as some exceptional > problem we haven't considered, when in fact we've been aware of it and > supported multi-homed environments from the outset of the DOTS effort. [Med] Please read the draft. The goal is to provide a set of guidance for D= OTS clients/gateways when multihomed. =20 >=20 > Please keep in mind that proprietary DOTS analogues have been in > production use for many years, and so there is a considerable degree of > real-world experience and expertise in using signaling mechanisms to > initiate DDoS mitigation, both from upstream transit providers and > topologically-distant MSSPs. Several of the active DOTS contributors > have hands-on experience in such environments. >=20 [Med] What I'm hearing from those with that experience (including some of y= our colleagues) is that there are specifics to multihoming that need to be = covered.=20 > ----------------------------------- > Roland Dobbins >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Fri Jul 21 00:48:49 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E25A129A92 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cKpjWSyAOYeC for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E97D131DF7 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id 65so6051457wmf.0 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=LFBuYWCF6tzs7VzsPxyj+oLPs3Jq3Md4nFpr54UELEE=; b=ubtr08iXHj7vkMxb0spGzzTU7Hona6kpFCkebQ+JjhsOJ1xdoEqzEL6ciObclErhdA nPj+/ET0rQnfReiY2NwJIeuyHY/vBiTdEZQzSFRgncwjNKkwSEjmxUTiGEG3haQXkgwf oGkJYbIxqWo4qU6PG0RrqXF1/hCYQcXcYZ13c0cX49aSJ9+9pmfVToH9R+W+ha3XCgtH 1r2alzi7TgD2nBHBAnbBYOd8L1Ulv9K2GZ9A+k/O0/BLA9vlfrcZ5lvLdx5Z9/2nmCIj HsjCQh5AAnchwo8ParpOTaMQcgGXneqga2+vKQQwRC/VvE5M4wzMwQmTnDwmoYmllgVT KiBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=LFBuYWCF6tzs7VzsPxyj+oLPs3Jq3Md4nFpr54UELEE=; b=T7+uDy94iYZ2D7X1sDT6RItq4e33DuMk/q9W2YASzZAdiJOopFOjZ2QBHoXNbjEgrj uFRApVHglGjRMAXjC42u7bB/vQfFi/WPoXvCpl6ILtWi4q0o0cMlun5V4XKlLqU9M788 KtjBgnHAk3Ed4bfw/Lo7Iz8pLZWIxQiY+yVjljIKBciGyG6PagWCJM2IK+M5fzQxydy0 +8OzGqLoOaQxEBTIfwEeTvHO+lgrhodPJxZy5B26RnOoJrNe2vnCun+v0WHQTVI3umkO 5wxU+vPSBZLamulBjUernjHSt3myD5xSrHogB1fWHXm9O8xjrBII9Q6TcjUaSesqDrpx IkzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112Arecg/QUyH+gykhtds+GVFre2WpJcILVJX6iw8bjsFunniJf1 U+jO1haC52mvH0dgt1U= X-Received: by 10.28.56.195 with SMTP id f186mr67789wma.93.1500623324891; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ (host86-187-125-113.range86-187.btcentralplus.com. [86.187.125.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 1sm665001wmn.32.2017.07.21.00.48.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 03:48:41 -0400 Message-ID: <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccKIkMIqA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:48:48 -0000 2. Shorten the list to focus on the above two means: I hear this = comment. I > would really appreciate if other WG participants share their thoughts = on this > before making changes to the draft (e.g., is there an interest to = specify how > DNS-SD/mDNS can be used for automatic DOTS discovery, whether the = group > sees a value in reserving a anycast address > for DOTS usage). DNS should be useable for discovery, as well as having anycast address. = We cannot assume the DHCP case -- we also need to consider a box with a = manually configured address that needs to find a DOTs server, and the = entire SLAAC environment, among others. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Fri Jul 21 00:56:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02DC2129B34 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BVhxW38NfdPt for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jul 2017 07:54:46.0670 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR16MB1614 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6076> : inlines <5988> : streams <1755109> : uri <2466984> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:56:06 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBEb3RzIFttYWlsdG86ZG90cy1i b3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUnVzcyBXaGl0ZQ0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXks IEp1bHkgMjEsIDIwMTcgMToxOSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNv bTsgJ0RvYmJpbnMsIFJvbGFuZCcNCj4gPHJkb2JiaW5zQGFyYm9yLm5ldD47IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtEb3RzXSBkcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItZG90cy1zZXJ2ZXItZGlz Y292ZXJ5OiBSb2xhbmQncyBjb21tZW50DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gMi4gU2hvcnRlbiB0aGUgbGlzdCB0 byBmb2N1cyBvbiB0aGUgYWJvdmUgdHdvIG1lYW5zOiBJIGhlYXIgdGhpcyBjb21tZW50LiBJDQo+ ID4gd291bGQgcmVhbGx5IGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgaWYgb3RoZXIgV0cgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHNoYXJl IHRoZWlyIHRob3VnaHRzDQo+ID4gb24gdGhpcyBiZWZvcmUgbWFraW5nIGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gdGhl IGRyYWZ0IChlLmcuLCBpcyB0aGVyZSBhbiBpbnRlcmVzdA0KPiA+IHRvIHNwZWNpZnkgaG93IERO Uy1TRC9tRE5TIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGZvciBhdXRvbWF0aWMgRE9UUyBkaXNjb3ZlcnksDQo+ID4g d2hldGhlciB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgc2VlcyBhIHZhbHVlIGluIHJlc2VydmluZyBhIGFueWNhc3QgYWRk cmVzcyBmb3IgRE9UUw0KPiA+IHVzYWdlKS4NCj4gDQo+IEROUyBzaG91bGQgYmUgdXNlYWJsZSBm b3IgZGlzY292ZXJ5LCBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGhhdmluZyBhbnljYXN0IGFkZHJlc3MuIA0KDQpZdXAu IEV4Y2x1ZGluZyB3aW5kb3dzLCBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIGFueSBQT1NJWCBzdGFuZGFyZCBub3Ig YW55IE9TIHZlbmRvciBoYXMgb2ZmZXJlZCBhIGdlbmVyaWMgZmFjaWxpdHkgdG8gYWNjZXNzIGlu Zm9ybWF0aW9uIA0KbWFkZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gREhDUCBwYWNrZXRzLiAgRE5TLVNEL21ETlMg d2lsbCBiZSB1c2VmdWwgaW4gc2NlbmFyaW9zIHdoZXJlIGJyb3dzZXIsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHNl cnZlciBhY3QgYXMgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQuIA0KDQotVGlydQ0KDQo+IFdlDQo+IGNhbm5vdCBhc3N1 bWUgdGhlIERIQ1AgY2FzZSAtLSB3ZSBhbHNvIG5lZWQgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgYSBib3ggd2l0aCBh DQo+IG1hbnVhbGx5IGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQgYWRkcmVzcyB0aGF0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGZpbmQgYSBET1Rz IHNlcnZlciwgYW5kIHRoZSBlbnRpcmUNCj4gU0xBQUMgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQsIGFtb25nIG90aGVy cy4NCj4gDQo+IPCfmIoNCj4gDQo+IFJ1c3MNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IERvdHNAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQo= From nobody Fri Jul 21 01:03:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC3E131CE6 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:03:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OUZJTSYy6B9g for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B87D6131BC3 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com ([fe80::68ac:f071:19ff:3455]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 04:03:20 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHmwALJDuAAAA2ZAD//79Vcg== Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:03:19 +0000 Message-ID: <20170721080318.5103687.33602.24942@sandvine.com> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Fri, 21 Jul 2017 04:05:36 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 04:05:35 -0400 From: "Teague, Nik" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" CC: Roland Dobbins , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D Thread-Index: AQHTAfghYbuC4RymVUSCWnh32F/jGQ== Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:05:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <9C775E38-299E-449D-922E-69DD62E9ED04@arbor.net>, <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0117A1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0117A1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:05:39 -0000 Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Jul 2017, at 09:39, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" wrote: >=20 > The goal is to provide a set of guidance for DOTS clients/gateways when m= ultihomed. =20 I think this may be key point here - I think the issue of multihoming may b= e more a question for implementors vs the protocol itself but have no objec= tions to clarifying text. I would like to understand if there are any suggested updates to the archit= ecture and requirements drafts that you feel would address the concern? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:06:40 -0000 On 21 Jul 2017, at 10:05, Teague, Nik wrote: > I think this may be key point here - I think the issue of multihoming > may be more a question for implementors vs the protocol itself but > have no objections to clarifying text. Concur. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From nobody Fri Jul 21 01:09:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E40131AA9 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:09:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FmhOLTxXxnxF for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D450112EB2B for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKZ55231; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:09:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:08:05 +0100 Received: from DGGEML502-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.84]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:08:03 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank)" To: "Teague, Nik" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" CC: Roland Dobbins , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D Thread-Index: AdMB7J9UMsgK1k4tR6G+2SshwpeLv///hPYAgAAEhwCAAAdpAP//eT9Q Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:08:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011752@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <9C775E38-299E-449D-922E-69DD62E9ED04@arbor.net>, <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0117A1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.72.173] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0205.5971B69F.00FD, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.84, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: bdd6713661eff7d229ee2364966f53b4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:09:06 -0000 Agree! > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Teague, Nik > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 10:06 AM > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Cc: Roland Dobbins; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] Multihoming & Requirements I-D >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > > On 21 Jul 2017, at 09:39, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" > wrote: > > > > The goal is to provide a set of guidance for DOTS clients/gateways when > multihomed. >=20 > I think this may be key point here - I think the issue of multihoming may= be > more a question for implementors vs the protocol itself but have no objec= tions > to clarifying text. >=20 > I would like to understand if there are any suggested updates to the > architecture and requirements drafts that you feel would address the conc= ern? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -Nik > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Fri Jul 21 02:51:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C86127869 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:51:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mSPQknvarmzy for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C74E0129B40 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 51E4440674; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:51:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.41]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 238641A0063; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:51:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2cc9:4bac:7b7d:229d%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:51:28 +0200 From: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHm///9IyA//+9RUA= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:51:28 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:51:32 -0000 SGkgUnVzcywNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgZmVlZGJhY2suIA0KDQpJIGludGVycHJldCB5 b3VyIGFuc3dlciBhcyBiZWluZyBpbiBmYXZvciBvZiB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBhcHByb2FjaCBpbiB0 aGUgZHJhZnQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItZG90 cy1zZXJ2ZXItZGlzY292ZXJ5LTAyI3NlY3Rpb24tNSANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0t LS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IERvdHMgW21haWx0bzpkb3RzLWJvdW5j ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIERlIGxhIHBhcnQgZGUgUnVzcyBXaGl0ZQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IHZlbmRy ZWRpIDIxIGp1aWxsZXQgMjAxNyAwOTo0OQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9oYW1lZCBJTVQv T0xOOyAnRG9iYmlucywgUm9sYW5kJzsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBSZTogW0Rv dHNdIGRyYWZ0LWJvdWNhZGFpci1kb3RzLXNlcnZlci1kaXNjb3Zlcnk6IFJvbGFuZCdzIGNvbW1l bnQNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAyLiBTaG9ydGVuIHRoZSBsaXN0IHRvIGZvY3VzIG9uIHRoZSBhYm92ZSB0 d28gbWVhbnM6IEkgaGVhciB0aGlzIGNvbW1lbnQuDQo+IEkNCj4gPiB3b3VsZCByZWFsbHkgYXBw cmVjaWF0ZSBpZiBvdGhlciBXRyBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgc2hhcmUgdGhlaXIgdGhvdWdodHMgb24N Cj4gdGhpcw0KPiA+IGJlZm9yZSBtYWtpbmcgY2hhbmdlcyB0byB0aGUgZHJhZnQgKGUuZy4sIGlz IHRoZXJlIGFuIGludGVyZXN0IHRvDQo+IHNwZWNpZnkgaG93DQo+ID4gRE5TLVNEL21ETlMgY2Fu IGJlIHVzZWQgZm9yIGF1dG9tYXRpYyBET1RTIGRpc2NvdmVyeSwgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgZ3JvdXAN Cj4gPiBzZWVzIGEgdmFsdWUgaW4gcmVzZXJ2aW5nIGEgYW55Y2FzdCBhZGRyZXNzDQo+ID4gZm9y IERPVFMgdXNhZ2UpLg0KPiANCj4gRE5TIHNob3VsZCBiZSB1c2VhYmxlIGZvciBkaXNjb3Zlcnks IGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgaGF2aW5nIGFueWNhc3QgYWRkcmVzcy4gV2UNCj4gY2Fubm90IGFzc3VtZSB0 aGUgREhDUCBjYXNlIC0tIHdlIGFsc28gbmVlZCB0byBjb25zaWRlciBhIGJveCB3aXRoIGENCj4g bWFudWFsbHkgY29uZmlndXJlZCBhZGRyZXNzIHRoYXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gZmluZCBhIERPVHMgc2Vy dmVyLCBhbmQgdGhlDQo+IGVudGlyZSBTTEFBQyBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCwgYW1vbmcgb3RoZXJzLg0K PiANCj4g8J+Yig0KPiANCj4gUnVzcw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9y Zw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg== From nobody Fri Jul 21 02:54:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79703129B40 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:54:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKMxAunW38D2 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96962127869 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 71720A0564; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:53:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.57]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 490131A0086; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:53:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::787e:db0c:23c4:71b3%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:53:56 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHm///9IyAgAABswD//72w8A== Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011968@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:54:00 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpBZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudCBhYm91dCBESENQIGFuZCBpdHMgYXBwbGlj YWJpbGl0eSBmb3IgaG9zdHMuIA0KDQpBcyB5b3Uga25vdywgREhDUCBpbiB0aGlzIEktRCBpcyBt YWlubHkgdGFyZ2V0aW5nIHRoZSBDUEUgY2FzZS4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0t TWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5 IFttYWlsdG86VGlydW1hbGVzd2FyUmVkZHlfS29uZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKg OiB2ZW5kcmVkaSAyMSBqdWlsbGV0IDIwMTcgMDk6NTUNCj4gw4DCoDogUnVzcyBXaGl0ZTsgQk9V Q0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgSU1UL09MTjsgJ0RvYmJpbnMsIFJvbGFuZCc7DQo+IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBkcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItZG90cy1zZXJ2ZXItZGlz Y292ZXJ5OiBSb2xhbmQncyBjb21tZW50DQo+IA0KPiA+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQo+ID4gRnJvbTogRG90cyBbbWFpbHRvOmRvdHMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVo YWxmIE9mIFJ1c3MgV2hpdGUNCj4gPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEp1bHkgMjEsIDIwMTcgMToxOSBQ TQ0KPiA+IFRvOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tOyAnRG9iYmlucywgUm9sYW5k Jw0KPiA+IDxyZG9iYmluc0BhcmJvci5uZXQ+OyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFtEb3RzXSBkcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItZG90cy1zZXJ2ZXItZGlzY292ZXJ5OiBSb2xhbmQn cw0KPiBjb21tZW50DQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IDIuIFNob3J0ZW4gdGhlIGxpc3QgdG8gZm9jdXMg b24gdGhlIGFib3ZlIHR3byBtZWFuczogSSBoZWFyIHRoaXMNCj4gY29tbWVudC4gSQ0KPiA+ID4g d291bGQgcmVhbGx5IGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgaWYgb3RoZXIgV0cgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHNoYXJlIHRo ZWlyIHRob3VnaHRzDQo+ID4gPiBvbiB0aGlzIGJlZm9yZSBtYWtpbmcgY2hhbmdlcyB0byB0aGUg ZHJhZnQgKGUuZy4sIGlzIHRoZXJlIGFuIGludGVyZXN0DQo+ID4gPiB0byBzcGVjaWZ5IGhvdyBE TlMtU0QvbUROUyBjYW4gYmUgdXNlZCBmb3IgYXV0b21hdGljIERPVFMgZGlzY292ZXJ5LA0KPiA+ ID4gd2hldGhlciB0aGUgZ3JvdXAgc2VlcyBhIHZhbHVlIGluIHJlc2VydmluZyBhIGFueWNhc3Qg YWRkcmVzcyBmb3IgRE9UUw0KPiA+ID4gdXNhZ2UpLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gRE5TIHNob3VsZCBiZSB1 c2VhYmxlIGZvciBkaXNjb3ZlcnksIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgaGF2aW5nIGFueWNhc3QgYWRkcmVzcy4N Cj4gDQo+IFl1cC4gRXhjbHVkaW5nIHdpbmRvd3MsIEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgYW55IFBPU0lYIHN0 YW5kYXJkIG5vciBhbnkgT1MgdmVuZG9yDQo+IGhhcyBvZmZlcmVkIGEgZ2VuZXJpYyBmYWNpbGl0 eSB0byBhY2Nlc3MgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCj4gbWFkZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gREhDUCBwYWNrZXRz LiAgRE5TLVNEL21ETlMgd2lsbCBiZSB1c2VmdWwgaW4gc2NlbmFyaW9zDQo+IHdoZXJlIGJyb3dz ZXIsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHNlcnZlciBhY3QgYXMgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQuDQo+IA0KPiAtVGlydQ0K PiANCj4gPiBXZQ0KPiA+IGNhbm5vdCBhc3N1bWUgdGhlIERIQ1AgY2FzZSAtLSB3ZSBhbHNvIG5l ZWQgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgYSBib3ggd2l0aCBhDQo+ID4gbWFudWFsbHkgY29uZmlndXJlZCBhZGRy ZXNzIHRoYXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gZmluZCBhIERPVHMgc2VydmVyLCBhbmQgdGhlDQo+IGVudGlyZQ0K PiA+IFNMQUFDIGVudmlyb25tZW50LCBhbW9uZyBvdGhlcnMuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiDwn5iKDQo+ID4N Cj4gPiBSdXNzDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Fri Jul 21 02:57:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64A0127869 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:57:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4kKpX6h8pWr5 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E7EA127ABE for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EAB6A10041F; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:57:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.57]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id CC6FB180066; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:57:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::787e:db0c:23c4:71b3%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:57:40 +0200 From: To: Dave Dolson , "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHm///9IyAgAABswCAAAJkgP//v39w Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:57:39 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A01197D@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com>, <20170721080318.5103687.33602.24942@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: <20170721080318.5103687.33602.24942@sandvine.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpBZ3JlZS4gVGhpcyBpcyBleGFjdGx5IHdoeSB3ZSBoYXZlIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQoN Ck9uZSBjb21tZW50IGFib3V0IFJBLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbiBvYmplY3Rpb24gZnJvbSB0aGUgSVB2 NiBjb21tdW5pdHkgdG8gZHVwbGljYXRlIERIQ1AgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSBpbiBSQS4NCg0KSSBz dWdnZXN0IHdlIGRvbid0IGdvIHRoYXQgd2F5LiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1N ZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IERhdmUgRG9sc29uIFttYWlsdG86ZGRvbHNv bkBzYW5kdmluZS5jb21dDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogdmVuZHJlZGkgMjEganVpbGxldCAyMDE3IDEw OjAzDQo+IMOAwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHk7IFJ1c3MgV2hpdGU7IEJPVUNB REFJUiBNb2hhbWVkIElNVC9PTE47DQo+ICdEb2JiaW5zLCBSb2xhbmQnOyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJlOiBbRG90c10gZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWlyLWRvdHMtc2VydmVyLWRpc2Nv dmVyeTogUm9sYW5kJ3MgY29tbWVudA0KPiANCj4gSSB0aGluayBpdCBtaWdodCBtYWtlIHNlbnNl IHRvIHNwbGl0IHRoaXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgZG90cyBzcGVjLiBFLmcuLCBhZGQgYQ0KPiBkaXN0aW5j dCBkb2MgZm9yICJQcm92aXNpb25pbmcgZG90cyBzZXJ2ZXIgd2l0aCBESENQL1JBIg0KPiANCj4g SW4gdGhlIGRvdHMgc3BlYywgYXNzdW1lIHRoZSBkb3RzIHNlcnZlciBpcyBrbm93biBieSB0aGUg Y2xpZW50Lg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IERhdmlkIERvbHNvbg0KPiBTYW5kdmluZQ0KPiAgIE9yaWdpbmFs IE1lc3NhZ2UNCj4gRnJvbTogS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeQ0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlk YXksIEp1bHkgMjEsIDIwMTcgOTo1NiBBTQ0KPiBUbzogUnVzcyBXaGl0ZTsgbW9oYW1lZC5ib3Vj YWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbTsgJ0RvYmJpbnMsIFJvbGFuZCc7DQo+IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtEb3RzXSBkcmFmdC1ib3VjYWRhaXItZG90cy1zZXJ2ZXItZGlzY292ZXJ5 OiBSb2xhbmQncw0KPiBjb21tZW50DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KPiA+IEZyb206IERvdHMgW21haWx0bzpkb3RzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJl aGFsZiBPZiBSdXNzIFdoaXRlDQo+ID4gU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBKdWx5IDIxLCAyMDE3IDE6MTkg UE0NCj4gPiBUbzogbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbTsgJ0RvYmJpbnMsIFJvbGFu ZCcNCj4gPiA8cmRvYmJpbnNAYXJib3IubmV0PjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IFN1YmplY3Q6 IFJlOiBbRG90c10gZHJhZnQtYm91Y2FkYWlyLWRvdHMtc2VydmVyLWRpc2NvdmVyeTogUm9sYW5k J3MNCj4gY29tbWVudA0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPiAyLiBTaG9ydGVuIHRoZSBsaXN0IHRvIGZvY3Vz IG9uIHRoZSBhYm92ZSB0d28gbWVhbnM6IEkgaGVhciB0aGlzDQo+IGNvbW1lbnQuIEkNCj4gPiA+ IHdvdWxkIHJlYWxseSBhcHByZWNpYXRlIGlmIG90aGVyIFdHIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cyBzaGFyZSB0 aGVpciB0aG91Z2h0cw0KPiA+ID4gb24gdGhpcyBiZWZvcmUgbWFraW5nIGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gdGhl IGRyYWZ0IChlLmcuLCBpcyB0aGVyZSBhbiBpbnRlcmVzdA0KPiA+ID4gdG8gc3BlY2lmeSBob3cg RE5TLVNEL21ETlMgY2FuIGJlIHVzZWQgZm9yIGF1dG9tYXRpYyBET1RTIGRpc2NvdmVyeSwNCj4g PiA+IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIGdyb3VwIHNlZXMgYSB2YWx1ZSBpbiByZXNlcnZpbmcgYSBhbnljYXN0 IGFkZHJlc3MgZm9yIERPVFMNCj4gPiA+IHVzYWdlKS4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IEROUyBzaG91bGQgYmUg dXNlYWJsZSBmb3IgZGlzY292ZXJ5LCBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGhhdmluZyBhbnljYXN0IGFkZHJlc3Mu DQo+IA0KPiBZdXAuIEV4Y2x1ZGluZyB3aW5kb3dzLCBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIGFueSBQT1NJWCBz dGFuZGFyZCBub3IgYW55IE9TIHZlbmRvcg0KPiBoYXMgb2ZmZXJlZCBhIGdlbmVyaWMgZmFjaWxp dHkgdG8gYWNjZXNzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uDQo+IG1hZGUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIERIQ1AgcGFja2V0 cy4gIEROUy1TRC9tRE5TIHdpbGwgYmUgdXNlZnVsIGluIHNjZW5hcmlvcw0KPiB3aGVyZSBicm93 c2VyLCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBzZXJ2ZXIgYWN0IGFzIERPVFMgY2xpZW50Lg0KPiANCj4gLVRpcnUN Cj4gDQo+ID4gV2UNCj4gPiBjYW5ub3QgYXNzdW1lIHRoZSBESENQIGNhc2UgLS0gd2UgYWxzbyBu ZWVkIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIGEgYm94IHdpdGggYQ0KPiA+IG1hbnVhbGx5IGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQgYWRk cmVzcyB0aGF0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGZpbmQgYSBET1RzIHNlcnZlciwgYW5kIHRoZQ0KPiBlbnRpcmUN Cj4gPiBTTEFBQyBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCwgYW1vbmcgb3RoZXJzLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4g8J+Yig0KPiA+ DQo+ID4gUnVzcw0KPiA+DQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBEb3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IERvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2RvdHMNCg== From nobody Mon Jul 24 03:28:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFFF131C79 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 03:27:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ay_7JTzpndsG for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 03:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 050D6131C60 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 03:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,406,1496095200"; d="scan'208";a="232624835" Received: from router-testbed.loria.fr (HELO [192.168.1.182]) ([152.81.12.195]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA; 24 Jul 2017 12:27:53 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWUgRnJhbsOnb2lz?= To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <68c90ed4-00ce-dc0f-7576-02ecdf14431f@inria.fr> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 12:27:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] draft-francois-dots-ipv6-signal-option-02: clarification X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 10:27:59 -0000 Dear all, Here is clarification regarding the proposition to include a repository functionality. To illustrate, there are three cases: - Out-of-band signaling : the client can contact the server eventually through a gatway without experiencing any connectivity issue - In-band signaling - case 1: the attack degrades quality of connectivity between the client and the server avoiding the signal to be transmitted but the client can still send packets to given locations (at least in an intermittent manner) - In-band signaling - case 2: the attack completely disrupt the connectivity, the client is fully isolated with no capacity to send any packet. Below the motivation of using an auxiliary asynchronous signalling: Out-of-band signaling: no need for auxiliary signaling mechanism In-band signaling - Case 1: in that case, the goal is to store persistent information about the attack where both the client and server could connect to but not necessarily at the same time. Establishing a direct connection between them is impossible. However the client is able to send information to the "repository" in uncontrolled/intermitent manner and the server as well (they are not synchronized and we need thus an asynchronous signaling. It increase the chance of delivering the signal). Actually this has its ground into our original idea using IPv6 HbH by storing signal at router level which could be delivered afterwards. Hence, multiple repositories should be used simultaneously by the client (preferably well distributed into the network topology). In such a scenario, the server is still able to obtain some fresh information (even with a bit more of delay) In-band signaling - Case 2: in that case, the server relies on stored information (pro-actively set before the attack is confirmed) to trigger mitigation. Regarding the comment, I agree that if we consider that the server has the capacity to store the information in a persistent manner, the in-band signaling - case 2 scenario could be covered but not case 1. jerome From nobody Mon Jul 24 04:58:34 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A33B131CAB for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRKkPwA0z9xy for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x244.google.com (mail-io0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9208131CAA for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x244.google.com with SMTP id p5so3895809ioo.4 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=rFVc0l7sq5BKcM6tkauw60Ovo4QwGewijyg/9pNDnBo=; b=msRJayRa5xAtmie8cVK8bv3ipqfYMj5vqZuspVxATKWUyovuIt+f4k8Gx1erV/GrIB TRHubAbtbCwWv/Y4peGsYADqDL0DjpKI+hHzqUt59TgSUHdALSs31u17J4/7nVcFb2xi 6p3txRK+71G/6A5SDjIgpPaGX5ELbxKaQSR/bU8A8xw/WJ7waBJ7bkToOG5TXPCdfxB4 IkzesneQiYVeWPzKIk4GD0fzu5jBAiEHc02FIsZvwNFzyuZO1Aik+Y759NnShXREoHeC wdUi3EU9HPUtT37e51GMKxlygVP1jx/NHCCn6zvyAVemVFeAB6PIJPE6ULCixlpJTkYJ xnWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=rFVc0l7sq5BKcM6tkauw60Ovo4QwGewijyg/9pNDnBo=; b=cLaz8bbJaR3RZeDGeWv51J2wFTSkNJqZ5re87UsI8yfGnS+BZCCNOvF9LltJFv2nv6 wodD0lgqQnU7E5gqVWBSDqETAcLXB6sgWiD7EkXtILueFnW+MLyzohLrDzUPpdqsJFlj 7ZTXev7dYivYqposUTZO/WSiI9nCDd3HyZR5pfrFOGbOpXZPK+49ljQ+W2Q5ga3V+xLP aj4ts7tSWq1xwMJDxqySZ41ZTIGpn8mrB89cyM3oVCs6R50xRFd6pkbzN3hzrjhK+H7+ tjoCyV2bcSfIrR1faFvfxAVjNp6rWgo410eV5any2SgqK+Dbrne06pS3zmHuwuUJ99rE HaAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111S/9IhsIFOskJCcFSqwl7FnWwnzamvdtW//xGCdPYoqPp4EN2t E0CeE7MIPMGPP4p5 X-Received: by 10.107.56.7 with SMTP id f7mr5868313ioa.52.1500897509958; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:d1fa:f6f6:900:d368]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m5sm4000536ioa.45.2017.07.24.04.58.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 07:58:26 -0400 Message-ID: <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUceiDc5toA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:58:33 -0000 > I interpret your answer as being in favor of the current approach in = the draft: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery- > 02#section-5 Broadly, yes -- I think the wording might want to be "helped along" a = bit, however, in a couple of specific areas.=20 In bullet point 1, I'm not certain what you mean by "by default..." This = seems to expect that every device will have a manual configuration, and = the remainder are "just" fallback mechanisms... And yet, the text below = says, in effect, a DOTS client can use, or not use, any of these. This = doesn't sound like there is a "default" method... I think here I would = just take the implication that manual configuration is the "default" out = of the text, especially as I suspect most operators are going to prefer = some automated form of configuration.=20 The numbered list seems to imply an order, as does the text above the = numbered list, but one of the paragraphs below clearly states no order = is implied. I think this might be a nod at either giving a precedence to = one method or another, but this is not called out in the text... I think = I would re organize this to be somewhat different. Maybe something like = this -- =3D=3D A key point in the deployment of DOTS is the ability of network = operators to be able to configure DOTS clients with the correct server = information consistently. To accomplish this, operators will need a = consistent set of ways in which DOTS clients can discover this = information, and a consistent priority among these options. If some = devices prefer manual configuration over DNS discovery, while others = prefer DNS discovery over manual configuration, the result will be a = process of "whack-a-mole," where the operator must find devices that are = using the wrong DOTS server, determine how to ensure the devices is = configured properly, and then reconfigure the device through the = preferred method. All DOTS clients MUST at least one of the four mechanisms below to = determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all = four, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways = to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS = in large scale environments. 1. Manual configuration. The DOTS client may be manually configured = through an automation system (or a local CLI, though this is less = preferred), with a list of DOTS servers to contact. These MAY be = specified either as IP addresses or the DNS name of a DOTS server. 2. DHCP. The DOTS client attempts to discover DOTS server name(s) from = DHCP, as described below. 3. DNS SD. The DOTS client attempts to discover DOTS server name(s) = using DNS service discovery, as described below.=20 4. Anycast. Send DOTS request to establish a DOTS session with the = assigned DOTS server anycast address for each combination of interface = and address family. Some of these mechanisms imply the use of DNS to resolve the IP address = of the DOTS server, while others imply the IP address of the relevant = DOTS server is obtained directly. Implementation options may vary on a = per device basis, as some devices may not have DNS capabilities and/or = proper configuration. Operators SHOULD, therefore, deploy at least two = way for clients to discover an authoritative DOTS server in their = domain, so devices of both types will operate properly. Clients will prefer information received from the discovery methods in = the order listed; i.e. manually configured servers will be preferred = over servers learned through DHCP, etc. =3D=3D There is some confusion here on the DNS bits of the discovery process = that probably needs to be cleared up. IMHO, it's important to allow a = DOTS client to discover servers without needing DNS configured locally. = Not all clients may have DNS running or configured. I also tend to think there needs to be a "happy eyeballs" section here = someplace. Servers running v6 should be preferred over servers running = v4, with a fallback timer, probably the same one used in the happy = eyeballs drafts. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ=20 From nobody Mon Jul 24 06:07:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F99131CD9 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 06:07:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duo0h_j87D4X for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 06:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36F821276AF for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 06:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9E391C04F4; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:07:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.60]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 692931A0065; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:07:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c1d7:e278:e357:11ad%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:07:37 +0200 From: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHmwGxExBmAbmFUceiDc5toKIkCATQ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:07:36 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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cmUNCj4gc29tZXBsYWNlLiBTZXJ2ZXJzIHJ1bm5pbmcgdjYgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHByZWZlcnJlZCBv dmVyIHNlcnZlcnMgcnVubmluZyB2NCwNCj4gd2l0aCBhIGZhbGxiYWNrIHRpbWVyLCBwcm9iYWJs eSB0aGUgc2FtZSBvbmUgdXNlZCBpbiB0aGUgaGFwcHkgZXllYmFsbHMNCj4gZHJhZnRzLg0KPiAN Cg0KW01lZF0gV2UgYWxyZWFkeSBoYXZlIHRoaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIERP VFMgc2lnbmFsIGNoYW5uZWw6IA0KaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWll dGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtY2hhbm5lbC0wMiNzZWN0aW9uLTQgDQoNCj4g8J+Yig0KPiANCj4gUnVz cw0KDQo= From nobody Tue Jul 25 21:41:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEF1129AF6 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0XwOB0yVsVr2 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C21129B5B for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:6::f]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 07A7925F69F; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:41:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from DHCP-66.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id D9E8875904A; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:41:21 +0900 (JST) To: Dave Dolson , "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <20170721080318.5103687.33602.24942@sandvine.com> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 13:41:22 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170721080318.5103687.33602.24942@sandvine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 04:41:28 -0000 I agree. Kaname On 2017/07/21 17:03, Dave Dolson wrote: > I think it might make sense to split this from the dots spec. E.g., add a distinct doc for "Provisioning dots server with DHCP/RA" > > In the dots spec, assume the dots server is known by the client. > > > David Dolson > Sandvine > Original Message > From: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 9:56 AM > To: Russ White; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; 'Dobbins, Roland'; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Russ White >> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 1:19 PM >> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; 'Dobbins, Roland' >> ; dots@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment >> >> >> 2. Shorten the list to focus on the above two means: I hear this comment. I >>> would really appreciate if other WG participants share their thoughts >>> on this before making changes to the draft (e.g., is there an interest >>> to specify how DNS-SD/mDNS can be used for automatic DOTS discovery, >>> whether the group sees a value in reserving a anycast address for DOTS >>> usage). >> DNS should be useable for discovery, as well as having anycast address. > Yup. Excluding windows, I don't think any POSIX standard nor any OS vendor has offered a generic facility to access information > made available in DHCP packets. DNS-SD/mDNS will be useful in scenarios where browser, application server act as DOTS client. > > -Tiru > >> We >> cannot assume the DHCP case -- we also need to consider a box with a >> manually configured address that needs to find a DOTs server, and the entire >> SLAAC environment, among others. >> >> 😊 >> >> Russ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dots mailing list >> Dots@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Jul 26 14:41:44 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA8D131D19 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UCs3UW5ZvZnM for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43000131D1E for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id y129so89251990pgy.4 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=GXK2r3+W0I1BdhSwcLdDgGqCEwBJrVLNsuzcs8C/Jsw=; b=sn4LNlh0cN38j1+kjCK3F/iyz+q/o7FRmYo060m/nfDjTT46JhAEoI1Uk0b+Qt7fIX faWwGsAJtMTA9kD+OyRiN2xfyTqbGDG0SJATWQigotukuew/7SvB7NEU1KoMaveRj5xp 1cgvvfCNK54ww3NpKwET0m1BiT8oMg9ILukK76d00f98jzAF4pyyETA03NcbXShJqYnk paezKw7cQSsbvNQrHVVcCmHsLwvDznrqww8/ScxV2heI1ijZzx/50GM5Ft61HYPef5hy +AfMVFHwF5kGH0i6S91cvEaMvrjOtmlCMfw8g7WBFpw+2+Q2VvqNDvTjTrc3SIyHqNrs c2/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=GXK2r3+W0I1BdhSwcLdDgGqCEwBJrVLNsuzcs8C/Jsw=; b=b/MRPVOmM6l3juhSKdDYEYRLoj+Ddweaszx64awy+ufjgaF5EU8c4QYYdISJI+OjwC XZ59hmkEHgT9iNOw8q4af6Jhjhc/gepB1GnV3kWJhQNdZ5UEaPLZo+rZ0dBuucSqCCYN 0HX/Uy4XwCcHFHLpJhMbd0XYfQ94bNKEdTBBw3vOPR7qqEk1eDmLTmfkNjqMWYwWuETW ljq7vvSJ93CvolR7dzhDmPzxnYLKHUesZE08p9cMcILEz24rmhhu63kVS46uB5Z558rc aHIYLOoOI/I7VYRUllA56MiYEVyLMBF2tJXC+Ps0LaUQuBgdfKPpERn+noxv5MEp0L2z KAvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110G6Xxaz5x6W+s8eFfPihirSfm0g45rioofy8FwKoMpfurUHBXU 9HQ8aWbkosm1pvdg X-Received: by 10.84.169.3 with SMTP id g3mr2180885plb.136.1501105300592; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:c5d9:55aa:e1fb:8ed1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g11sm7199671pfk.38.2017.07.26.14.41.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 17:41:38 -0400 Message-ID: <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOoe2W9ZA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:41:43 -0000 > > A key point in the deployment of DOTS is the ability of network > > operators to be able to configure DOTS clients with the correct = server > > information consistently. To accomplish this, operators will need a > > consistent set of ways in which DOTS clients can discover this > > information, and a consistent priority among these options. If some > > devices prefer manual configuration over DNS discovery, while others > > prefer DNS discovery over manual >=20 > [Med] I guess you meant "dynamic" instead of "DNS discovery". Yes, this is right. > [Med] I would put the use of "an automation system" in the same level = as > DHCP. Both provide a dynamic provisioning means. In my mind, "Manual > configuration" is more about static configuration. Well, it depends... =F0=9F=98=8A For some folks, "manual configuration" = is automated. This is a very cloudy area.... I'm fine with putting them = on the same level, however. > > 2. DHCP. The DOTS client attempts to discover DOTS server name(s) = from > > DHCP, as described below. >=20 > [Med] FWIW, we clarified in -01 of the draft why a name is required. = I'm > inserting that text here because it was removed from -02: Hmmm... So this means that DOTS _cannot_ work without DNS -- I don't = know that this is a "good" dependency to put in place, especially if it = is implicit, rather than explicit. For one thing, it means that if the = attacker can take DNS access out of play, then DOTS is no longer = useable. For another, there are many situations where DOTS is going to = be useful where DNS cannot be deployed. So -- this needs to be = clarified, to me -- Is it possible to run DOTS without DNS? OR must every client have an = operational DNS stack, and be able to reach a DNS server? More just below -- > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > As reported in Section 1.7.2 of [RFC6125], "few certification > authorities issue server certificates based on IP addresses, but > preliminary evidence indicates that such certificates are a very > small percentage (less than 1%) of issued certificates". In order = to > allow for PKIX-based authentication between a DOTS client and = server, > this document specifies the DHCP option as a name. One or multiple > IP addresses may be returned as a result of name resolution. >=20 > Defining the option to include a list of IP addresses would avoid a > dependency on an underlying name resolution, but that design = requires > to also supply a name for PKIX-based authentication purposes. >=20 > Because aliasing is to be avoided (Section 7 of [RFC7227]), this > document specifies one single option that conveys a DOTS server's > name. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The point of this text seems to be that if you cannot validate the = server with a certificate, then you cannot use the server. But I don't = understand why the client should not be similarly situations towards the = server... So this means the client must also have a DNS name entry, and = that entry must map to the correct IP address, because the client cannot = be authenticated otherwise.=20 The second point here is -- just because certificates are not offered = for IP addresses today does not mean they cannot be. In fact, if I = wanted to deploy a lot of devices that could not run DNS, or I didn't = want the DNS dependency involved, I could simply build such = certificates... So this text disallows a perfectly useable deployment = option because "it's not done that way today." This does not seem like a = strong line of argument to me. > > Some of these mechanisms imply the use of DNS to resolve the IP > > address of the DOTS server, while others imply the IP address of the > > relevant DOTS server is obtained directly. Implementation options = may > > vary on a per device basis, as some devices may not have DNS > > capabilities and/or proper configuration. Operators SHOULD, = therefore, > > deploy at least two way for clients to discover an authoritative = DOTS > > server in their domain, so devices of both types will operate = properly. >=20 > [Med] I like this. See above, however -- if a DNS name is _required_, then DOTS is very = limited in its usefulness, and this paragraph isn't needed. > > Clients will prefer information received from the discovery methods = in > > the order listed; i.e. manually configured servers will be preferred > > over servers learned through DHCP, etc. >=20 > [Med] Preferring local/static configuration over a dynamic one may = lead to > never using the dynamic configuration in case a new server is deployed = or a > change occurred. I do agree that explicit configuration should be = preferred > over the other means (DNS-SD and anycast), but the information that is > dynamically retrieved should be preferred over static or manual one. = No? This is actually a catch22 -- if the automatic configuration always = overrides any manual configuration, then there is no way to perform = manual local troubleshooting. I'm not certain how to resolve this... > [Med] We already have this discussed as part of the DOTS signal = channel: > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-02#section-4 Okay. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Wed Jul 26 20:30:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5422131FD5 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DmAt36Y1Nvaa for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jul 2017 03:30:03.0059 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1785 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6080> : inlines <5995> : streams <1755936> : uri <2470599> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:30:23 -0000 SGkgUnVzcywNCg0KRE5TIHJlc29sdXRpb24gY2FuIGJlIHBlcmZvcm1lZCBkdXJpbmcgcGVhY2Ug dGltZSwgdG8gYXZvaWQgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gb2YgRE5TIHNlcnZlciBub3QgYmVpbmcgYXZhaWxh YmxlIGR1cmluZyBhIHZvbHVtZXRyaWMgRERvUyBhdHRhY2suIEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgRE9UUyBz aG91bGQgcmVjb21tZW5kIHNlcnZlciBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZXMgYmFzZWQgb24gSVAgYWRkcmVzc2Vz LCBzZWUgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL3JmYzYxMjUuICBJbiBjYXNlIG9mIG1h bnVhbCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uLCBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBjYW4gYmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCB3aXRoIHRo ZSBET1RTIHNlcnZlciBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYW5kIFNQS0kgZmluZ2VycHJpbnQgKGhhc2ggb2Yg dGhlIERPVFMgc2VydmVyIHB1YmxpYyBrZXkpIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBzdGlsbCBubyBuZWVkIHRv IGdlbmVyYXRlIERPVFMgc2VydmVyIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIGJhc2VkIG9uIElQIGFkZHJlc3MgKEZv ciBleGFtcGxlLCB3ZSBoYXZlIHVzZWQgU1BLSSBmaW5nZXJwcmludCBpbiBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xz LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kcHJpdmUtZHRscy1hbmQtdGxzLXByb2ZpbGVzLTEw 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PiBSdXNzDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KPiBEb3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Wed Jul 26 23:06:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E794132012 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:06:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xtHY6csJFG86 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9408312708C for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 007186078A; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 08:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.13]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D7328C006B; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 08:06:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::54f9:a6c3:c013:cbc7%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 08:06:17 +0200 From: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHmwGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOoe2W9ZCiI45qUA== Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:06:17 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013936@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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aGF2ZSB0aGlzIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBhcyBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBET1RTIHNpZ25hbCBjaGFubmVsOg0K PiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNo YW5uZWwtMDIjc2VjdGlvbi00DQo+IA0KPiBPa2F5Lg0KPiANCj4g8J+Yig0KPiANCj4gUnVzcw0K DQo= From nobody Thu Jul 27 03:52:20 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C1A131D25 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3snfgICLuILx for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x242.google.com (mail-yw0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC84312009C for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x242.google.com with SMTP id i6so7018102ywb.3 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=imMPlJsbwBPN0ZMH168XTOPiksceod2tFqok3kZQ/Ds=; b=ezTgcuqKs+ukIs/6Fze3QgtaeidPGY+3hEkDvQOJ31ckOCru3rC+CGZ9KKME+NXowz m+k6Q2Fr184Xfr7aEfLUf6aSl2a/qfHvTm0uc+Jkssff2V3szb71iT6CUKxcu1cIACMZ 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r24mr3189031ywa.275.1501152735962; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:18fd:f931:94f1:23e8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q1sm6904900ywd.24.2017.07.27.03.52.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:52:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOAq9zooIBid5ixaHMqoZw Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:52:19 -0000 > DNS resolution can be performed during peace time, to avoid the = problem of > DNS server not being available during a volumetric DDoS attack. I = don't think > DOTS should recommend server certificates based on IP addresses, see > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6125. In case of manual configuration, = DOTS So -- to get this straight -- the idea is that either the certificate = must be configured along with the IP address, or DNS must be used to = resolve the IP address of the server. There is no alternative to provide = a client without a DNS stack running a list of IP addresses, and work = from this point. Which makes no sense to me at all.=20 This restricts DOTS to a broad, rather incomplete, set of use cases -- = and assumes that DNS "at least works once," will not change once it does = not work, etc.=20 Further, ponder on what this is saying. What is the worst result if the = client attaches to a server that cannot be authenticated? The client = sends requests for mitigation to a non-server. What is the worst result = if a bad actor acts as a client? The client can use the DOTS channel as = a new attack surface. And yet... There are much stronger authentication = requirements on which server a client attaches to versus which client = attaches to a server. This makes no sense to me at all. AFAICT, DOTS has limited its own usefulness with this move, for no = apparent gain.=20 If you want to make DOTS useful, and these are really the requirements, = then either - - there MUST be a way to automatically carry certificates in DHCP/etc., = not just a name=20 - you MUST rule DHCP sorts of configuration out entirely, as there is no = way for the DHCP server to know whether or not its client is DNS = enabled, DNS settings have been overridden in a way that will cause DOTS = not to function, etc. What is specified right now is a half measure that is going to cause a = lot of networks to break, and many hours of troubleshooting and = frustration. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Thu Jul 27 03:53:17 2017 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC471318A3 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TQhn5-CX96Ma for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x241.google.com (mail-yw0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C68212009C for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x241.google.com with SMTP id p68so6252396ywg.5 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=nxzPW2BrXtC5IdvwFx10CUoBgbMdW+Ulbh+hv8CP/zk=; b=V5K4LrBHLBvGafjIAhTbybczqp0vsgrwBhnWp42SkIH1H6lMbqNRR7bvn/6td9lT+j wLFXVCjwrP7jwdByndLmp0c/+qE//4omJX5XdX6vKALuW/3l8Kd++b/tSa6NztNLYXLy U2tMpr1b6kG0BXTpzcmCzVdzjCPwCNL414EKfm/UMkFj7l7WMuyEEL/e1j2zIzUM842i m0ypkoFv2kNgZb17GD+qmxF46wJawtFYD0qH3/yz6+7NvwqP5dwyYn3HrobcVj3ny1fQ 4jYaBe3RhwcNj7DidUwJP2vOjRJhAalBg2zQA6mGcApEnKUaeDumKYvTPeWQEM2H3kD8 GDNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=nxzPW2BrXtC5IdvwFx10CUoBgbMdW+Ulbh+hv8CP/zk=; b=FaLU5/k5047pegxWFTTZIoCKipCFrPeE5GUPXM0W54TtmnfKF3bFR8S3+E6CDKOmox wGwob85nHZ+SR1V1OSXB4IZ69c2Xo0HJIsqUUoILBhe1Pb44Rdhw2T1u3jEfp3EATWFh NJ1r3Xr6cCPf5nLWNR/TvTpT7Tk/4FlMr51Ka0yFFRqIIe42/hJ4mpjgTWTI1p5NHZUB qfkdiPANordNGEVu65U3so+jDSkcvWp5WdQxHYjdnRcdrVr2BI0ZBcoSFEcrYwa+4sGq 2P9Tx/3FBi57kwQalietOr/FNhU7O8m2+KLaJ3eifqTNYlBJbd8PXQLJ27EvTwcYDDzw KEbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111FLtd/Rkd+RVjiIBM+EA5Vstcc6LAbloJXkovQHzoUCW6jgXwM SBl8QTkhzCpXxeCb X-Received: by 10.129.104.195 with SMTP id d186mr3141164ywc.406.1501152794363; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:18fd:f931:94f1:23e8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x141sm1894143ywx.90.2017.07.27.03.53.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jul 2017 03:53:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013936@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013936@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: <006801d306c6$8b57ba70$a2072f50$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOAq9zooIByOam36HKtSaw Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:53:17 -0000 =20 > [Med] Manual local troubleshooting can be done, e.g., > - deactivate the dynamic means to supply configuration data > - use the latest supplied data > - enable a local configuration parameter so that static configuration = overrides > dynamic one. You are assuming every implementation will have such a capability -- if = this is what is required to make things deployable, then it should be in = the requirements that clients MUST have this ability. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Thu Jul 27 04:24:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C41131FDC for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 04:24:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jtb_jEO178xC for ; 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Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:24:28 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHmwACwneAAARJxQAAm077AAACamYAAHaJBQAACn9UUAARHQqAAAC4l+A= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:24:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: McAfee.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jul 2017 11:24:28.0063 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1785 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6080> : inlines <5996> : streams <1755983> : uri <2470807> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Thu, 27 Jul 2017 04:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:18fd:f931:94f1:23e8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u96sm9042234iou.82.2017.07.27.04.36.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jul 2017 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 07:36:24 -0400 Message-ID: <024501d306cc$94284b00$bc78e100$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOAq9zooIBid5ixQHCMYdIAilyT02hrVpq8A== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:36:28 -0000 > No, IP and reference identifier can be configured (reference = identifier is > present in PKIX certificate's subjectAltName extension) to match the = server > certificate. So there are really only two choices for configuration - 1. Configure the IP address and reference identifier manually on each = client 2. Send ONLY a DNS name to the client, and expect the client to have = properly function DNS to resolve the rest There is no way to automatically configure a DOTS client in the absence = of correctly operational DNS on the client -- something the server = cannot know is true or not. Is there a specific operational or security = reason for this limitation? "Because we don't want to extend DHCP to supply the necessary = information" doesn't seem like a good answer to me. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ From nobody Thu Jul 27 05:04:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCFA131FF8 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 05:04:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRnwFyz35eki for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 05:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF776131C2F for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 05:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E422CC0628; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 14:04:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.60]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BA61940075; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 14:04:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c1d7:e278:e357:11ad%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 14:04:01 +0200 From: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment Thread-Index: AdMB6rtHb2tK75oESQe7LWje4TFHmwGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOAq9zooIBid5ixQHCMYdIAilyT02hrVpq8KIkFGHg Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:04:01 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013B3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> <024501d306cc$94284b00$bc78e100$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <024501d306cc$94284b00$bc78e100$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Russ ([2602:30a:2e5b:44d0:18fd:f931:94f1:23e8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h66sm147249itd.29.2017.07.27.06.30.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jul 2017 06:30:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ White" <7riw77@gmail.com> To: , "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , "'Dobbins, Roland'" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011700@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01bf01d301f5$c5b8e340$512aa9c0$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A011956@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012901d30474$296049d0$7c20dd70$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A0124D6@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <015801d30657$f71c8840$e55598c0$@gmail.com> <006701d306c6$681d7a90$38586fb0$@gmail.com> <024501d306cc$94284b00$bc78e100$@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013B3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A013B3A@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:30:20 -0400 Message-ID: <02ba01d306dc$7edc1280$7c943780$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHv3U0husgnIp38UYoL+e1y+I6ccAGxExBmAbmFUccBvCrRTQLEheVOAq9zooIBid5ixQHCMYdIAilyT00BuGa5OgHtUTeAoZBLvnA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery: Roland's comment X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 13:30:38 -0000 > * The main target of DHCP is DOTS client embedded in a CPE; those = devices > support DNS and are provided with DNS server. There is no issue out = there. However -- not everyone uses the provider CPE, and even when they do, = they modify the DNS settings. I do, for instance, and have for years.=20 > * We could design two options for DOTS: one for returning a list of IP > addresses and another one to return a name. A client that does not = support > DNS will ask for a list of IP addresses, while a client with DNS = capabilities may > include both and let the server decide. Such practice is not = recommended by > DHC WG: What the DHC drafts are talking about here is providing the same = information in two different forms. With DOTS, this isn't _necessarily_ = the same information. First, the IP address list would need to contain = the matching reference identifiers, so the information is different in = what it contains. Second, it would be perfectly rational for the DNS = option and the IP address option to reveal a different list of servers = for various reasons. In the normal DHC case, this would be a bug -- in = this case, it could well be a feature. But, ultimately -- if the point is there must be no way to autoconfigure = a list of IP addresses with their corresponding reference identifiers, = then this needs to be clearly documented in the _discovery_ = documentation, rather than being hinted at in a round-a-bout way such = that readers need to dig through a set of 4 drafts just to get an idea = of how the various pieces interlock. Don't leave open the possibility of = something in one draft that is foreclosed in another -- this just leads = to confusion down the road, including non-interoperable implementations. = =F0=9F=98=8A Russ