From nobody Mon Apr 1 00:04:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8CE120046 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 00:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HvlnI92LC7x3 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 00:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E908E12003F for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 00:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Xjy108Cyz1y3y; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 09:04:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.60]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Xjy06JqSzDq7R; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 09:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 09:04:24 +0200 From: To: kaname nishizuka , Jon Shallow , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AQHU5g4BCfVXhciSq0+ZqKxGOtsoYqYm5Qkg Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:04:24 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5055F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1519e976-9b67-ca8e-d3d4-eb22727f0ddd@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <1519e976-9b67-ca8e-d3d4-eb22727f0ddd@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2019 07:04:29 -0000 SGkgS2FuYW1lLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0t LS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IGthbmFtZSBuaXNoaXp1a2EgW21haWx0 bzprYW5hbWVAbnR0djYuanBdDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogdmVuZHJlZGkgMjkgbWFycyAyMDE5IDEw OjAyDQo+IMOAwqA6IEJPVUNBREFJUiBNb2hhbWVkIFRHSS9PTE47IEpvbiBTaGFsbG93OyBkb3Rz QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJlOiBbRG90c10gY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBxdWVzdGlvbnMg ZnJvbSB0aGUgaGFja2F0aG9uDQo+IA0KPiBIaSwNCj4gDQo+IHBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lLg0K PiANCj4gcmVnYXJkcywNCj4gS2FuYW1lDQo+IA0KPiBPbiAyMDE5LzAzLzI5IDQ6MjgsIG1vaGFt ZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gUmUtLA0KPiA+DQo+ID4gUGxlYXNl IHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+ID4gTWVkDQo+ID4NCj4gPj4gLS0tLS1N ZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+ID4+IERlwqA6IEpvbiBTaGFsbG93IFttYWlsdG86c3Vw anBzLWlldGZAanBzaGFsbG93LmNvbV0NCj4gPj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBqZXVkaSAyOCBtYXJzIDIw 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dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81031200E3 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:13:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QPFXdsBPD02n for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AD3712002F for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44XqT06Bcdz8t04; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:13:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.70]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44XqT057pMzCqkc; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:13:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c911:d24e:cc19:afa7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:13:08 +0200 From: To: Jon Shallow , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AdTliGx+CfVXhciSq0+ZqKxGOtsoYgAE0UngALTyooA= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 11:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:26:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JhVxhQstEJh8 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0782E1200E3 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 04:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hAv5S-00022D-7k; Mon, 01 Apr 2019 12:26:46 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , "kaname nishizuka" , References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 12:26:44 +0100 Message-ID: <13aa01d4e87d$cafde560$60f9b020$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQHt3r5uLxQCm36T4hpiV9AQ3uXfywEEvNQdAusoxfCl1b6fwA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2019 11:26:53 -0000 Hi Med, Changes look good to me - thanks. Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: 01 April 2019 12:13 > To: Jon Shallow; kaname nishizuka; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >=20 > Jon, Kaname, all, >=20 > FWIW, a proposal to integrate the interop comments is available at: > https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/blob/master/wdiff%20draft- > = nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-05.txt%20draft-nishizuka-dots-sig= nal- > control-filtering-06.pdf >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname > nishizuka > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 28 mars 2019 11:38 > > > > > =C3=80 : dots@ietf.org > > > > > Objet : [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the ML. > > > > > > > > > > #1: Questions about signal-control-filtering > > > > > 1. Should a mitigation request create a mitigation before = doing a PUT > > + > > > > > acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] against the active = mitigation, > > or > > > is a > > > > > =E2=80=98PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]=E2=80=99 = allowed to create a new > > > > > mitigation? > > > > > > > > [Med] Both are currently allowed in the draft. I don't still a = valid > > reason > > > to > > > > restrict this. > > > > > > [Jon] As per draft > > > A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS = signal > > > channel if no attack (mitigation) is active; > > > > > > > [Med] What is meant actually is: > > > > A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal > > channel in 'idle' time; > > > > Will update the text. > > > > > [Jon] then needs to be reworded as there is no active mitigation = until the > > > PUT is done... > > > I believe that both cases should be supported. > > > > > > > > > 2. Should the response to a GET (or Observed GET) include = the acl- > > list > > > > > [{acl-name, activation-type}] if the PUT included it? > > > > > > > > [Med] The current spec says "no". That's said, what would be the = value > in > > > > returning it? Then, why not allowing to return the references to = all ACLs > > > that > > > > are enabled during the mitigation time? > > > > > > > [Jon] When observing the mitigation request, if the = activation-type is > > > changed externally, the client will then know about the change. = Assuming > > the > > > response got back to the client, this is effectively an ACK to the = fact > > that > > > the ACL change got through. > > > > [Med] The observe case makes sense, indeed. > > > > > > > > Interesting concept about knowing about all the relevant ACLs as = returned > > > over the signal channel. More work for the server to do in = determining > > which > > > ACLs are valid for, say, a specific IP address that is being = mitigated. > > Not > > > entirely convinced of the benefit of this as this generally is = available > > over > > > the data channel. > > > > > > > [Med] I'm not convinced, either. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 1 06:31:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DD8120110 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 06:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:30:43 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2744.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.232.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1750.22; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:30:42 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959f:8bd7:8c34:238d]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959f:8bd7:8c34:238d%6]) with mapi id 15.20.1750.021; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:30:43 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Jon Shallow , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AdTliGx+SHuMyqAwQXGIbxMDIEwnuAAFAkKAALfbG4AABL07wA== Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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AQHU5h+xrX4SeVf6U0ySGUHQ6MNCN6YnUh3g Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 13:37:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2afb5c9deef06d0-00008.Richmail.00007050166234752489@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: <2afb5c9deef06d0-00008.Richmail.00007050166234752489@chinamobile.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; x-originating-ip: [49.37.205.163] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 536cb635-f424-48fa-50ef-08d6b6a72216 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600139)(711020)(4605104)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR16MB2726; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR16MB2726: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 3 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-forefront-prvs: 0994F5E0C5 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from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d42b:2e80:86c2:5905%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:01:47 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AdTliGx+SHuMyqAwQXGIbxMDIEwnuAAFAkKAALfbG4AABL07wAAAeoKg Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 14:01:47 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5092C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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TWVkXSBJJ20gbm90IGNvbnZpbmNlZCwgZWl0aGVyLg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQo+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Mon Apr 1 07:35:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9804612013E for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j_jRyTDQ2Wr9 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5D31120110 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Xvyx4mt4z10BM for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Xvyx42wXz8sYT for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:35:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::849f:f804:b713:d99a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 16:35:53 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHU6JfUgsjBoBfDSkWnVKSWXVFRgKYnXpIA Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 14:35:53 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA509AB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155412918871.17052.15933518947409207656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155412918871.17052.15933518947409207656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gJ6FH8wcNClVn03qcTXZQ186CGlio5sDHBgpkHOSqRQ=; b=aEzruiTtiezw/MyOhc8+UDSe5o6JHd46YfJsQb2aBNutBG5C1OCSWk5h+P5Emxqt1b n5k39Y1QXP3Y1h4TM8Th3FPutu06SpXKXtsWdeb5MnI28UopLnKiPMN4DsUsyV76+81O SO0i3Bm70Ry1tFb4RMMwuAlkxTSRTWfFcGb7cMgBbgmn7L/CB/BRH/4pc+bZfDAKmZIQ r8ieBU7QVPFIXiWRfclEO9+yDaXhjJxsRMhqpQR6vfDvrm6BYILkJfzkDzUA/tt9QQCd GzWX2LeDEXnf2wFcpBxY4nVGHE8O8eZYadYdUV0q5puOeRZoiPSeDUgRcY7iZ8JCK4EU Yvqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gJ6FH8wcNClVn03qcTXZQ186CGlio5sDHBgpkHOSqRQ=; b=a31pdQKMl/mRDZASuLFQ3DXsFFCVIk4EStW3R5Cyx5fzn+/RXJG5NGhXxJvGRbWjdJ monQIhhroSJLQ5iTFj+9qyLFVEE+xIO40kOnWJu8xY/PJeUQSIjUW+Mz/nX5C85477ps MqfvPMLiRLNbQsdVDKDsqu37AvClaw+P7V80dXmFzkR9TjN9VkrZASc+c19TJCOTGZT/ vCjp2xZ0aliFs5iAUosP1lYyFyxO664JRKx3xcENyPFGhcdkJakMFLTdK9QdmnN1IcWS P2BpLxcs9rBPVix1TGNKXW9kM+UU3Lv5wt1RwqK/eu5+aX7V2IvomDqUwOVJSORhA0eI ZBuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX02iA08XWWSbAqzMNQStaBGylEQgV6Cayc6RpUgi8hpwiclRa3 pThAD+A3Fqbku/RGuUSC417qujxbKaH+LKWZF2Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzScEfDpvQGLqxhNsbtCb0BNCNFKeM3EcvwGThVUQ4MlENLV6fTeAbJI7Mh9Cj5k2JOmvHFT/e3lwaULuEt/F0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d9c7:: with SMTP id q190mr10421079ybg.378.1554138799266; Mon, 01 Apr 2019 10:13:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2afa5c9df0626fd-00007.Richmail.00004070460264152429@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: <2afa5c9df0626fd-00007.Richmail.00004070460264152429@chinamobile.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 19:13:01 +0200 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?6ZmI576O546y?= Cc: dots Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Target-Attack-type expansion: more discussion X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:13:22 -0000 Peace, On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 12:15 PM =E9=99=88=E7=BE=8E=E7=8E=B2 wrote: > I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the mail For clarification, the quotations below that line are from the draft [1], not from the mailing list thread. > Therefore, it is necessary to unify the attack definition, > form a standard attack definition I do not anticipate that happening in the foreseeable future. Mainly, because of the differences between traffic classifying and filtering engines. Also, because the state of scientific research on the problem space is quite poor. > we give out a complete format for DDoS attacks as below >From the text and also from the slides [2] it is not clear what exactly you list under "protocol level". It appears like something very close to the OSI layering, however, a) in this case the proper word would be "layer", not "level", b) the attribution seems quite arbitrary. E.g. ICMP flood is coupled with "Network_Layer" while it could also affect the data link layer if e.g. there's no "no arp packet-priority enable" on an interface in a Cisco switched network. The same with memcached reflection which could cause an effect on the layer 2 through 4 performance of a network (and I'd even go as far as to say that L4 being affected is the least likely case). *** All in all, as I tried to point out during the session, I've personally seen a similar problem of conversion between different item classification methods being solved before in 3GPP world, where e.g. HP OpenView and Huawei M2000/J2000 had almost entirely different concepts of event type, status, and severity, yet communicated just fine through software-defined mapping tables provided by the respective vendors. Sometimes, it's best to follow that path, and a good thing is: you don't need a years-long IETF process for that to go live. References: [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-meiling-dots-attack-type-expansion-0= 0 [2]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dots-att= ack-bandwidth-and-attack-type-expansion-01 -- T=C3=B6ma From nobody Mon Apr 1 22:15:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CC4120086 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 22:15:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zSxJrLtHCGVC for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 22:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29A6A12001E for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 22:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YHTB6kTMz8tKV; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:14:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.57]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YHTB5YXszCqkt; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:14:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM6D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4c24:f1ba:2b1:e490%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:14:54 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AdTliGx+SHuMyqAwQXGIbxMDIEwnuAAFAkKAALfbG4AABL07wAAAeoKgAAOXWlAAHPOt0A== Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 05:14:54 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50DA9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA50720@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5092C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7206112011A for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 06:13:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id isVcJ1HgADJh for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 06:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEED21200DB for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 06:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YV4y3FrPz10L5 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:13:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.92]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YV4y2fv8zyQ2 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:13:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::7873:1668:636f:52c%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:13:06 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHU6VV8tXarL0WSm0CyTZCHY1fb3aYo2JKg Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 13:13:05 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA512C0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155421064292.6387.16657228529546449549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155421064292.6387.16657228529546449549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 13:13:12 -0000 SGkgYWxsLCANCg0KVGhpcyB2ZXJzaW9uIHRha2VzIGludG8gYWNjb3VudCB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMg cmVjZWl2ZWQgaW4gUHJhZ3VlLiANCg0KVGhlIHRleHQgd2FzIGFsc28gcmVzdHJ1Y3R1cmVkIGZv ciBhIGJldHRlciByZWFkYWJpbGl0eS4gDQoNClF1ZXN0aW9ucywgY29tbWVudHMsIGFuZCBzdWdn ZXN0aW9ucyBhcmUgbW9yZSB0aGFuIHdlbGNvbWUuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0t LU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3Jn IFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IG1hcmRpIDIg YXZyaWwgMjAxOSAxNToxMQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBUYWthaGlrbyBOYWdhdGE7IFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBS ZWRkeTsgQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09MTjsgUmVkZHkgSzsNCj4gS2FuYW1lIE5pc2hp enVrYQ0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LW5pc2hp enVrYS1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9sLQ0KPiBmaWx0ZXJpbmctMDYudHh0DQo+IA0KPiANCj4g QSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LW5pc2hpenVrYS1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9s LWZpbHRlcmluZy0wNi50eHQNCj4gaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBieSBN b2hhbWVkIEJvdWNhZGFpciBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZQ0KPiBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkuDQo+ IA0KPiBOYW1lOgkJZHJhZnQtbmlzaGl6dWthLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNvbnRyb2wtZmlsdGVyaW5n DQo+IFJldmlzaW9uOgkwNg0KPiBUaXRsZToJCUNvbnRyb2xsaW5nIEZpbHRlcmluZyBSdWxlcyBV c2luZyBEaXN0cmlidXRlZCBEZW5pYWwtb2YtDQo+IFNlcnZpY2UgT3BlbiBUaHJlYXQgU2lnbmFs aW5nIChET1RTKSBTaWduYWwgQ2hhbm5lbA0KPiBEb2N1bWVudCBkYXRlOgkyMDE5LTA0LTAyDQo+ IEdyb3VwOgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQo+IFBhZ2VzOgkJMjMNCj4gVVJMOiAgICAg ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1uaXNoaXp1 a2EtZG90cy0NCj4gc2lnbmFsLWNvbnRyb2wtZmlsdGVyaW5nLTA2LnR4dA0KPiBTdGF0dXM6ICAg ICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtbmlzaGl6dWthLWRv dHMtc2lnbmFsLQ0KPiBjb250cm9sLWZpbHRlcmluZy8NCj4gSHRtbGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBz Oi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1uaXNoaXp1a2EtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtDQo+IGNv bnRyb2wtZmlsdGVyaW5nLTA2DQo+IEh0bWxpemVkOiAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2Vy LmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LW5pc2hpenVrYS1kb3RzLQ0KPiBzaWduYWwtY29udHJv bC1maWx0ZXJpbmcNCj4gRGlmZjogICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2Rp ZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1uaXNoaXp1a2EtZG90cy0NCj4gc2lnbmFsLWNvbnRyb2wtZmlsdGVyaW5n LTA2DQo+IA0KPiBBYnN0cmFjdDoNCj4gICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBzcGVjaWZpZXMgYW4gZXh0 ZW5zaW9uIHRvIHRoZSBET1RTIHNpZ25hbCBjaGFubmVsIHNvDQo+ICAgIHRoYXQgRE9UUyBjbGll bnRzIGNhbiBjb250cm9sIHRoZWlyIGZpbHRlcmluZyBydWxlcyB3aGVuIGFuIGF0dGFjaw0KPiAg ICBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIGlzIGFjdGl2ZS4NCj4gDQo+ICAgIFBhcnRpY3VsYXJseSwgdGhpcyBleHRl bnNpb24gYWxsb3dzIGEgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQgdG8gYWN0aXZhdGUgb3IgZGUtDQo+ICAgIGFjdGl2 YXRlIGV4aXN0aW5nIGZpbHRlcmluZyBydWxlcyBkdXJpbmcgYSBERG9TIGF0dGFjay4gIFRoZQ0K PiAgICBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpemF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZXNlIGZpbHRlcmluZyBydWxlcyBpcyBzdXBwb3Nl ZCB0byBiZSBjb252ZXllZA0KPiAgICBieSBhIERPVFMgY2xpZW50IGR1cmluZyBhbiBpZGxlIHRp bWUgYnkgbWVhbnMgb2YgdGhlIERPVFMgZGF0YQ0KPiAgICBjaGFubmVsIHByb3RvY29sLg0KPiAN Cj4gRWRpdG9yaWFsIE5vdGUgKFRvIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQgYnkgUkZDIEVkaXRvcikNCj4gDQo+ICAg IFBsZWFzZSB1cGRhdGUgdGhlc2Ugc3RhdGVtZW50cyB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpdGgg dGhlIFJGQw0KPiAgICBudW1iZXIgdG8gYmUgYXNzaWduZWQgdG8gdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudDoNCj4g DQo+ICAgIG8gICJUaGlzIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBZQU5HIG1vZHVsZSBpcyBwYXJ0IG9mIFJG QyBYWFhYOyINCj4gDQo+ICAgIG8gICJSRkMgWFhYWDogQ29udHJvbGxpbmcgRmlsdGVyaW5nIFJ1 bGVzIFVzaW5nIERpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIERlbmlhbC0NCj4gICAgICAgb2YtU2VydmljZSBPcGVuIFRo cmVhdCBTaWduYWxpbmcgKERPVFMpIFNpZ25hbCBDaGFubmVsIjsNCj4gDQo+ICAgIG8gIHJlZmVy ZW5jZTogUkZDIFhYWFgNCj4gDQo+ICAgIG8gIFtSRkNYWFhYXQ0KPiANCj4gICAgUGxlYXNlIHVw ZGF0ZSB0aGVzZSBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzIHdpdGggdGhlIFJGQyBudW1iZXIgdG8gYmUgYXNzaWduZWQg dG8NCj4gICAgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBkb2N1bWVudHM6DQo+IA0KPiAgICBvICAiUkZDIFNTU1M6 IERpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIERlbmlhbC1vZi1TZXJ2aWNlIE9wZW4gVGhyZWF0IFNpZ25hbGluZw0KPiAg ICAgICAoRE9UUykgU2lnbmFsIENoYW5uZWwgU3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiIgKHVzZWQgdG8gYmUNCj4g ICAgICAgW0ktRC5pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNoYW5uZWxdKQ0KPiANCj4gICAgbyAgIlJGQyBE REREOiBEaXN0cmlidXRlZCBEZW5pYWwtb2YtU2VydmljZSBPcGVuIFRocmVhdCBTaWduYWxpbmcN Cj4gICAgICAgKERPVFMpIERhdGEgQ2hhbm5lbCBTcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uIiAodXNlZCB0byBiZQ0K PiAgICAgICBbSS1ELmlldGYtZG90cy1kYXRhLWNoYW5uZWxdKQ0KPiANCj4gICAgUGxlYXNlIHVw ZGF0ZSB0aGUgInJldmlzaW9uIiBkYXRlIG9mIHRoZSBZQU5HIG1vZHVsZS4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IFBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBm cm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCj4gdW50aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24g YW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBJRVRG IFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Apr 2 07:21:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A999B1201EB for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LmZyY1o_NWaJ for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180A612016F for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hBKI4-000337-KB; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:21:28 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , References: <155421064292.6387.16657228529546449549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA512C0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA512C0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:21:27 +0100 Message-ID: <151801d4e95f$5d98ffe0$18caffa0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQIodJsxuhDA6GheWme44Hg+M5GD1QNE9aJJpWek9gA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 14:21:37 -0000 Hi Med, Thanks for this. Clarification / comment 3.2.1 Parameters & Behaviors ... acl-name: A name of an access list defined using the DOTS data channel (Section 7.2 of [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]). The acl-name is unique per cuid, but the name can be duplicated, so = perhaps Updated acl-name: A name of an access list defined using the DOTS data channel (Section 7.2 of [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) that is = associated with the DOTS client's 'cuid'. Old Figure 5: GET to Retrieve the Filtering (After Mitigation) New Figure 5: DOTS Data Channel GET response after Mitigation Old Figure 6: DOTS Data Channel Request to Create an Accep-List Filter New Figure 6: DOTS Data Channel Request to Create an Accept-List Filter Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: 02 April 2019 14:13 > To: dots@ietf.org > Subject: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > control-filtering-06.txt >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > This version takes into account the comments received in Prague. >=20 > The text was also restructured for a better readability. >=20 > Questions, comments, and suggestions are more than welcome. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 2 avril 2019 15:11 > > =C3=80 : Takahiko Nagata; Tirumaleswar Reddy; BOUCADAIR Mohamed = TGI/OLN; > Reddy K; > > Kaname Nishizuka > > Objet : New Version Notification for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control- > > filtering-06.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to = the > > IETF repository. > > > > Name: draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering > > Revision: 06 > > Title: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial-of- > > Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel > > Document date: 2019-04-02 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 23 > > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nishizuka-dots- > > signal-control-filtering-06.txt > > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > > control-filtering/ > > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > > control-filtering-06 > > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nishizuka-dots- > > signal-control-filtering > > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-nishizuka-dots- > > signal-control-filtering-06 > > > > Abstract: > > This document specifies an extension to the DOTS signal channel = so > > that DOTS clients can control their filtering rules when an = attack > > mitigation is active. > > > > Particularly, this extension allows a DOTS client to activate or = de- > > activate existing filtering rules during a DDoS attack. The > > characterization of these filtering rules is supposed to be = conveyed > > by a DOTS client during an idle time by means of the DOTS data > > channel protocol. > > > > Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) > > > > Please update these statements within the document with the RFC > > number to be assigned to this document: > > > > o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" > > > > o "RFC XXXX: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed = Denial- > > of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel"; > > > > o reference: RFC XXXX > > > > o [RFCXXXX] > > > > Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned = to > > the following documents: > > > > o "RFC SSSS: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling > > (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification" (used to be > > [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]) > > > > o "RFC DDDD: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling > > (DOTS) Data Channel Specification" (used to be > > [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) > > > > Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 2 07:45:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81390120124 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:45:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5jIvNSht0PNX for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 469A21200DB for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 07:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YX7T2MM9zyp6; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 16:45:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.104]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YX7T1JWzzDq7Y; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 16:45:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::193b:bc32:1ad3:362d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 16:45:24 +0200 From: To: Jon Shallow , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHU6VV8tXarL0WSm0CyTZCHY1fb3aYo2JKg///x84CAACYg4A== Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 14:45:24 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA513BB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155421064292.6387.16657228529546449549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA512C0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <151801d4e95f$5d98ffe0$18caffa0$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <151801d4e95f$5d98ffe0$18caffa0$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] TR: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 14:45:30 -0000 SGkgSm9uLCANCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3LiANCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxp bmUuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4g RGXCoDogSm9uIFNoYWxsb3cgW21haWx0bzpzdXBqcHMtaWV0ZkBqcHNoYWxsb3cuY29tXQ0KPiBF bnZvecOpwqA6IG1hcmRpIDIgYXZyaWwgMjAxOSAxNjoyMQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9o YW1lZCBUR0kvT0xOOyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJFOiBbRG90c10gVFI6IE5l dyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtbmlzaGl6dWthLWRvdHMtDQo+IHNpZ25h bC1jb250cm9sLWZpbHRlcmluZy0wNi50eHQNCj4gDQo+IEhpIE1lZCwNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcyBm b3IgdGhpcy4NCj4gDQo+IENsYXJpZmljYXRpb24gLyBjb21tZW50DQo+IA0KPiAzLjIuMSAgUGFy YW1ldGVycyAmIEJlaGF2aW9ycw0KPiAuLi4NCj4gYWNsLW5hbWU6ICBBIG5hbWUgb2YgYW4gYWNj ZXNzIGxpc3QgZGVmaW5lZCB1c2luZyB0aGUgRE9UUyBkYXRhDQo+ICAgY2hhbm5lbCAoU2VjdGlv biA3LjIgb2YgW0ktRC5pZXRmLWRvdHMtZGF0YS1jaGFubmVsXSkuDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gVGhlIGFj 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Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461DE120333; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 14:59:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <155424239427.6306.4549019967046760351.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 14:59:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 21:59:55 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am balloting YES but noticed a few things in the -31 that can get addressed with the rest of the IESG comments. Section 4.4.1 Implementations SHOULD set 'cuid' to the output of a cryptographic [...] [RFC6234]. The output of the cryptographic hash algorithm is truncated to 16 bytes; truncation is done by stripping off the final 16 bytes. The truncated output is base64url encoded. [...] If a DOTS client has to change its 'cuid' for some reason, it MUST NOT do so when mitigations are still active for the old 'cuid'. The 'cuid' SHOULD be 22 characters to avoid DOTS signal message fragmentation over UDP. [...] We need to cite RFC 4648, Section 5, for base64url. Also, getting a 22-character base64url-encoded cuid requires stripping the trailing '=' from the encoding, and we should explicitly say to do that. A similar attack can be achieved by a compromised DOTS client which can sniff the TLS 1.2 handshake, use the client certificate to identify the 'cuid' used by another DOTS client. This attack is not possible if algorithms such as [RFC4122] are used to generate the 'cuid'. [...] I think the key part of RFC4122 cuid generation (w.r.t. preventing sniffing) is that it's non-deterministic (and thus non-guessable), so we should say something like "because such UUIDs are not a deterministic function of the client certificate". Figure 11 needs to show the response that indicates a conflicting cuid that triggers the second request. Section 10 When FQDNs are used as targets, the DOTS server MUST rely upon DNS privacy enabling protocols (e.g., DNS over TLS [RFC7858], DoH [RFC8484]) to prevent eavesdroppers from possibly identifying the target resources protected by the DDoS mitigation service and means to ensure the target FQDN resolution is authentic (e.g., DNSSEC [RFC4034]). nits: "DNS over TLS or DoH" ("or" instead of comma, but keep the references as-is); comma before "and means to ensure", since the DOTS server has to do both of those (as opposed to the DOTS server using DoT/DoH which provides both eavesdropping protection and data authenticity, which is what the current text says). From nobody Tue Apr 2 15:00:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6C8120341; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:00:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-data-channel@ietf.org, Roman Danyliw , dots-chairs@ietf.org, rdd@cert.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <155424243323.6396.16520268247896153789.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:00:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 22:00:34 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As in the signal-channel document, there are a couple of nits in the text about using FQDNs as mitigation targets: Section 10 When FQDNs are used as targets, the DOTS server MUST rely upon DNS privacy enabling protocols (e.g., DNS over TLS [RFC7858], DoH [RFC8484]) to prevent eavesdroppers from possibly identifying the target resources protected by the DDoS mitigation service and means to ensure the target FQDN resolution is authentic (e.g., DNSSEC [RFC4034]). nits: "DNS over TLS or DoH" ("or" instead of comma, but keep the references as-is); comma before "and means to ensure", since the DOTS server has to do both of those (as opposed to the DOTS server using DoT/DoH which provides both eavesdropping protection and data authenticity, which is what the current text says). From nobody Tue Apr 2 15:02:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930FE120260; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gRJp_UA3IaiL; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DB9A120336; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com (mail-wr1-f49.google.com [209.85.221.49]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45D25278B43; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 07:01:48 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id y7so18547241wrn.11; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:01:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXhkKyujaXDY9hLsTqPllGoqvi4HC/aGv8H+16Tkx1OFlLbhF99 +5I3+/EMtdDkH6Q4e0UEfNhExmqFwqZpTp3sP0g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzEJhCVD9MsMjvfmqhxE+eRkqaAlbaTE/je09yYx9mSKgN2Sfv5tMAOc6xpL0UR4JcW59GRDX4H7bAXGDL68qU= X-Received: by 2002:adf:9c91:: with SMTP id d17mr24582634wre.285.1554242505936; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 15:01:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2019 15:01:34 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000076151a05859348aa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 22:01:55 -0000 --00000000000076151a05859348aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Med, Thanks for the reply. I put my comments in lines. On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:55 PM wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > Thank you for the review. > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : dimanche 31 mars 2019 10:53 > > =C3=80 : tsv-art@ietf.org > > Cc : draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; > > dots@ietf.org > > Objet : Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 > > > > Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida > > Review result: Almost Ready > > > > This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review > team's > > ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were writte= n > > primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the > document's > > authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to t= he > > IETF > > discussion list for information. > > > > When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider th= is > > review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC > > tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. > > > > Summary: This document is almost ready for publication, but it will be > better > > to clarify the following points. > > > > 1: "it is out of scope of this document to specify the behavior to be > > followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple > > DOTS servers are provisioned." > > > > I'm not sure why it is out of scope. Does it bring a certain > > complexities > > to the protocol? > > Or, does it simply mean it is up to implementations? > > [Med] This is because of specific considerations such as those discussed > in draft-ietf-dots-multihoming. We don't want to overload the base spec > with such considerations (discussed in separate documents). The same > approach is followed for server discovery > (draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery). > Got it. I think it would be useful for readers to mention it in the draft. > > 2: "The DOTS client periodically repeats the mechanism to discover > whether > > DOTS signal > > channel messages with DTLS over UDP becomes available from the > DOTS > > server.." > > > > -> Does this mean DOTS clients will not repeat this when it > already > > has > > DTLS over UDP connection? > > What about if the client has DTLS over UDPv4? Does it try to > check > > DTLS over UDPv6? Also, is this logic MAY or SHOULD or don't > want > > to > > specify? > > [Med] The client will retry when the cache flushes out: > Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a > connection MUST cache information regarding the outcome of each > connection attempt for a specific time period, and it uses that > information to avoid thrashing the network with subsequent attempts. > OK, but if you retry anyway after a certain time, why do you need to cache the results? > 3: "DOTS agents SHOULD follow the data transmission guidelines discusse= d > > in Section 3.1.3 of [RFC8085] and control transmission behavior > by > > not sending more than one UDP datagram per round-trip time (RTT= ) > to > > the peer DOTS agent on average." > > > > -> How about TCP connections? > > [Med] TCP does not have the issue with non-confirmable messages. FWIW, > RFC8323 states the following: > > The request/response interaction model of CoAP over TCP is the same > as CoAP over UDP. The primary differences are in the message layer. > The message layer of CoAP over UDP supports optional reliability by > defining four types of messages: Confirmable, Non-confirmable, > Acknowledgment, and Reset. > > ... > > Since TCP eliminates the need for the message layer to support > reliability, CoAP over reliable transports does not support > Confirmable or Non-confirmable message types. > I see. Thanks for the clarification. -- Yoshi --00000000000076151a05859348aa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI Med,

Tha= nks for the reply. I put my comments in lines.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:55= PM <m= ohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
Hi Yoshi,

Thank you for the review.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: dimanche 31 mars 2019 10:53
> =C3=80=C2=A0: ts= v-art@ietf.org
> Cc=C2=A0: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org;
> dots@ietf.org > Objet=C2=A0: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel= -31
>
> Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida
> Review result: Almost Ready
>
> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review t= eam's
> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were writt= en
> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the docu= ment's
> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to = the
> IETF
> discussion list for information.
>
> When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider t= his
> review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always C= C
> tsv-art@ietf.org= if you reply to or forward this review.
>
> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication, but it will be= better
> to clarify the following points.
>
> 1:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"it is out of scope of this document to specify th= e behavior to be
> followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DOTS servers are provisioned." >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm not sure why it is out of scope. Doe= s it bring a certain
> complexities
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the protocol?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Or, does it simply mean it is up to implementation= s?

[Med] This is because of specific considerations such as those discussed in= draft-ietf-dots-multihoming. We don't want to overload the base spec w= ith such considerations (discussed in separate documents). The same approac= h is followed for server discovery (draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery).
=

Got it. I think it would be useful for rea= ders to mention it in the draft.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
> 2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"The DOTS client periodically repeats the mechanis= m to discover whether
> DOTS signal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0channel messages with DTLS over UDP b= ecomes available from the DOTS
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0server.."
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> Does this mean DOTS clients will not = repeat this when it already
> has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DTLS over UDP connection?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What about if the client has = DTLS over UDPv4? Does it try to check
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DTLS over UDPv6? Also, is thi= s logic MAY or SHOULD or don't want
> to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specify?

[Med] The client will retry when the cache flushes out:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a =C2=A0 =C2=A0connection MUST cache information regarding the outcome of eac= h
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connection attempt for a specific time period, and it uses tha= t
=C2=A0 =C2=A0information to avoid thrashing the network with subsequent att= empts.
=C2=A0
OK, but if you retry anyway af= ter a certain time, why do you need to cache the results?

> 3:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"DOTS agents SHOULD follow the data transmission g= uidelines discussed
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in Section 3.1.3 of [RFC8085] and con= trol transmission behavior by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not sending more than one UDP datagra= m per round-trip time (RTT) to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the peer DOTS agent on average."=
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0->=C2=A0 How about TCP connections?

[Med] TCP does not have the issue with non-confirmable messages. FWIW, RFC8= 323 states the following:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The request/response interaction model of CoAP over TCP is the= same
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as CoAP over UDP.=C2=A0 The primary differences are in the mes= sage layer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The message layer of CoAP over UDP supports optional reliabili= ty by
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defining four types of messages: Confirmable, Non-confirmable,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Acknowledgment, and Reset.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0...

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Since TCP eliminates the need for the message layer to support=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0reliability, CoAP over reliable transports does not support =C2=A0 =C2=A0Confirmable or Non-confirmable message types.
=

I see. Thanks for the clarification.=C2=A0
--=
Yoshi



=C2= =A0
--00000000000076151a05859348aa-- From nobody Tue Apr 2 23:12:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326C6120049; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:12:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iyzgxSqBMuZI; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D575120019; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YwjL2R6sz2xXT; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:12:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.54]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YwjK3k4pzBrLS; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:12:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:12:37 +0200 From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org" , Liang Xia , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHU6Z9pJtsjEvWz90KhDJLBcsS0/aYp9G5A Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 06:12:36 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA519BF@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155424239427.6306.4549019967046760351.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155424239427.6306.4549019967046760351.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Benjamin Kaduk's Yes on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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dGV4dCBzYXlzKS4NCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Apr 2 23:17:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E5012004F for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:17:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g3_TRScUQVxK for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0FD4120019 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id g7so10759546lfh.10 for ; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WG0NFtXB5k5bRxgAtE4gfHW8RdoDkaovzO4L4QTTsLo=; b=t0osgWr0bWls4WXzLv3vzCs0e9noqv+oA/swA7Rizpz/BDyK3p0wdGx/isnEKd8M0Y si4tBYA9Iq4DhCOSFnN4P8saH2OsBf7GkMpjgE/0cQT3KWOOMY+g9BkopdL0HaWdtu8l +86XqaUrrjnaXPVpE1w8eMLqQcFdOGO5WJMjkEeoc2Dprvd4FROWXktiVH1fZDrxTbA7 2x9KAt/sD75NJ0PMwtx4tD1pJLHl7x2JzlQWiC0E6ozhckn/mfaDgQsgoN+aFK/YP+h+ 3ATubn3X2NoRlB2mDtBUBtezncEy3qsQwejG8zrc/2n03NveDz3Zq5NN56wh7PrsrCaD 2vmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WG0NFtXB5k5bRxgAtE4gfHW8RdoDkaovzO4L4QTTsLo=; b=FNqy28/3Sco/HfvGkAXwLWDuTcpZ/1MLVmasP36fLqSIEm1+3N5iDI7XiBq9AKCDxH 8ct9hBlmgCy0MGyjDZgozroK9G2+MssayvaDvcO/afjweR1P5xyTD2Q97Olj6TwFFQFk oOsNuGtKZqYGX6N5DaPWxHfjb7c4bZNFqQUPKmvbXXoSifQPfYnpN6fpn/YmPrLLluN1 OmnS8NmCn7lWuw9cuEdQ4PMsD3e5NkvXgBedLVZTDNkbrADdmKUzaMUpaI/kDA/s0QnW u9tsRtztK/4KIEKWiPoe8cJXPy/jB6sczKcrTwfYitM7ZZVwnn8FMyKffm+WVVAqmKE3 KlRg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUuRCc2/L6JKyLXKoZQ1KAdFmDi3DTuZhro/DaN2vqkVwprcYWc DEaMJTAexRkcqrWQpZpcJ4OA7Jdl60I76YXaFJ+Zlzfi X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz6oM4DM25fDJAoTcO+X1a8OAkg9PeVxZmtV2s8iNcGpgRAqRWobBDcjivUtfeUrOMMvKLq+rap3CPl/S+SGow= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5c5a:: with SMTP id s26mr4417443lfp.109.1554272252706; Tue, 02 Apr 2019 23:17:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: H Y Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 15:17:24 +0900 Message-ID: To: dots@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000081c38a05859a352e" Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Next action: draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 06:17:37 -0000 --00000000000081c38a05859a352e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, Thank you for giving me feedback at IETF104. Based on the feedback of WG and co-authors, I would like to modify my draft in the following policy. 1) Insert JSON Example of DOTS signaling into "Case: Mitigation Request via In-band Link". 2) Clarify deployment considerations into both "Case: DOTS Request via Out-of-band Link " and "Case: Mitigation Request via In-band Link". I suppose that "Case: DOTS Request via Out-of-band Link " doesn't require no expansion of current Data Channel. However, I suppose that "Case: Mitigation Request via In-band Link" requires some expansion of current Signal Channel such as the source-* clauses defined in reddy-dots-home-network. I will share my draft after modification. Thanks, Yuhei -- ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- --00000000000081c38a05859a352e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Thank you for giving me feedback at IETF104. Based on the feedback of W= G and co-authors, I would like to modify my draft in the following policy.<= br>
1) Insert JSON Example of DOTS signaling into "Case: Mitigation Re= quest via In-band Link".
2) Clarify deployment considerations into = both "Case: DOTS Request via Out-of-band Link " and "Case: M= itigation Request via In-band Link".

I suppose that "Case: DOTS Request via Out-of-ba= nd Link " doesn't require no expansion of current Data Channel. Ho= wever, I suppose that "Case: Mitigation Request via In-band Link"= requires some expansion of current Signal Channel such as the source-* cla= uses defined in reddy-dots-home-network.

I will share my draft aft= er modification.=C2=A0

Thanks,
Yuhei

--
-------= ---------------------------
Yuuhei HAYASHI
08065300884
yuuhei.hayash= i@gmail.com
iehuuy_0220@d= ocomo.ne.jp
----------------------------------
--00000000000081c38a05859a352e-- From nobody Tue Apr 2 23:35:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83576120395; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4i_wYancnjlZ; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F327712049E; Tue, 2 Apr 2019 23:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YxD80BKLz2xtQ; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:35:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.98]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44YxD76P67zCqkT; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:35:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d9:d3cd:85bd:d331%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 3 Apr 2019 08:35:51 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida CC: Yoshifumi Nishida , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 Thread-Index: AQHU6Z+uUBMkEiD7EUiAdpk+3/hJ56Yp9W2g Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2019 06:35:51 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155428156943.22937.15885748722629969072@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 01:52:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-architecture-13.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2019 08:52:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Architecture Authors : Andrew Mortensen Tirumaleswar Reddy Flemming Andreasen Nik Teague Rich Compton Filename : draft-ietf-dots-architecture-13.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2019-04-03 Abstract: This document describes an architecture for establishing and maintaining Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) within and between domains. The document does not specify protocols or protocol extensions, instead focusing on defining architectural relationships, components and concepts used in a DOTS deployment. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-architecture/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-architecture-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-architecture-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-architecture-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 4 02:26:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02720120470 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2019 02:26:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPlU1n2VXZj9 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2019 02:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0D81203FB for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2019 02:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.17]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app11-12011 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eeb5ca5cdba485-16423; Thu, 04 Apr 2019 17:26:19 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eeb5ca5cdba485-16423 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.51.21]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr09-12009 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee95ca5cdbabd0-f5a22; Thu, 04 Apr 2019 17:26:19 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee95ca5cdbabd0-f5a22 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 17:26:29 +0800 From: "MeiLing Chen" To: =?UTF-8?B?S29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeQ==?= , dots References: <2afb5c9deef06d0-00008.Richmail.00007050166234752489@chinamobile.com>, X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019040417262909803722@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart274755583251_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Attack-bandwidth expansion: more discussion X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2019 09:26:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart274755583251_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIGRyYWZ0LWRvcm9uLWRvdHMtdGVsZW1ldHJ5LTAwLCBpdCBpcyBub3Qg bmVjY2Vzc2FyeSB0byBhZGQgYWxsIHRoZSBwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIGNvbnRhaW5lZCBpbiB0aGUgZHJh ZnQgb2YgZHJhZnQtZG9yb24tZG90cy10ZWxlbWV0cnktMDA7DQpXaGVuIGRpc2N1c3MgYSBwYXJh bWV0ZXIgaXMgbmVlZGVkIGZvciBzaWduYWwgY2hhbm5lbCBleHBhbnNpb24gb3Igbm90LCB0aGVy ZSBhcmUgdHdvIHByb2JsZW1zIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gdGFrZSBpbnRvIGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb246IDEs IGlmIHRoZSBhdHRhY2sgdGFyZ2V0IGNhbiBwcm92aWRlIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlPyAyLCBpZiB0aGUg cGFyYW1ldGVyIGNhbiByZWFsbHkgZWZmaWNlbnQgZm9yIG1pdGlnYXRpb24/DQpzbyBmYXIsIG5l dHdvcmsgZGV2aWNlIGNhbiBwcm92aWRlIGF0dGFjay1iYW5kd2lkdGggYW5kIGF0dGFjay10eXBl IGFuZCAgdGhpcyB0d28gZHJhZnRzIHdpbGwgYmUgbWVyZ2VkIGludG8gYSBzaW5nbGUgZHJhZnQu IA0KDQoNCg0K56Wd5aW977yBDQpjaGVubWVpbGluZ++8iOmZiOe+jueOsu+8iQ0KLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCuS4reWbveenu+WKqOmAmuS/oeaciemZkOWFrOWPuOeglOep tumZog0K5a6J5YWo5oqA5pyv56CU56m25omADQrpgq7nrrHvvJpjaGVubWVpbGluZ0BjaGluYW1v YmlsZS5jb20NCuaJi+acuu+8mjEzODEwMTQ5NTE1DQrnlLXor53vvJoxNTgwMTY5NjY4OC0zNDI4 Mw0K5Zyw5Z2A77ya5YyX5Lqs5biC6KW/5Z+O5Yy65a6j5q2m6Zeo6KW/5aSn6KGXMzLlj7fvvIjn p7vliqjliJvmlrDlpKfljqbvvIkNCiANCkZyb206IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkN CkRhdGU6IDIwMTktMDQtMDEgMjE6MzcNClRvOiDpmYjnvo7njrI7IGRvdHMNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJF OiBbRG90c10gQXR0YWNrLWJhbmR3aWR0aCBleHBhbnNpb246IG1vcmUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbg0KV2Ug cHVibGlzaGVkIGEgZHJhZnQgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWRvcm9u LWRvdHMtdGVsZW1ldHJ5LTAwIGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgdmFyaW91cyBET1RTIHRlbGVtZXRyeSBpbmNs dWRpbmcgdG90YWwgYXR0YWNrIHRyYWZmaWMsIGJ1dCBhdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBkZWNpc2lvbiB3YXMg dG8gZm9jdXMgb25seSBvbiB0aGUgbWFuZGF0b3J5IGF0dHJpYnV0ZXMgaW4gdGhlIERPVFMgc2ln bmFsIGNoYW5uZWwgZHJhZnQuICBOb3cgdGhhdCB0aGUgY29yZSBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIGFsbW9z dCByZWFkeSwgSSB0aGluayBpdOKAmXMgcmlnaHQgdGltZSB0byBsb29rIGludG8gdGhlIHRlbGVt ZXRyeSBhdHRyaWJ1dGVzLiBXZSBzaG91bGQgcHJvYmFibHkgZGlzY3VzcyBhbmQgY29uc29saWRh dGUgdGhlIERPVFMgdGVsZW1ldHJ5IGF0dHJpYnV0ZXMgaW4gYSBzaW5nbGUgZHJhZnQuIA0KIA0K Q2hlZXJzLA0KLVRpcnUNCiANCkZyb206IERvdHMgPGRvdHMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gT24g QmVoYWxmIE9mID8/Pw0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyOSwgMjAxOSA0OjM3IFBNDQpUbzog ZG90cyA8ZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtEb3RzXSBBdHRhY2stYmFuZHdpZHRoIGV4 cGFuc2lvbjogbW9yZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uDQogDQpDQVVUSU9OOiBFeHRlcm5hbCBlbWFpbC4gRG8g bm90IGNsaWNrIGxpbmtzIG9yIG9wZW4gYXR0YWNobWVudHMgdW5sZXNzIHlvdSByZWNvZ25pemUg dGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQga25vdyB0aGUgY29udGVudCBpcyBzYWZlLg0KDQoNCkhpIGV2ZXJ5b25l LA0KRHVlIHRvIHRpbWUgY29uc3RyYWludHMgZHVyaW5nIG15IHByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiwgd2UgaGFk bid0IG1ha2UgbXVjaCBtb3JlIGRpc2N1c3MgeWVzdGVyZGF5LCANCkknZCBsaWtlIHRvIGNvbnRp bnVlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgdGhlc2UgdG9waWNzIGluIHRoZSBtYWlsIGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFu eSBxdWVzdGlvbnMgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4gDQogDQpNZWlMaW5nIENoZW4NCi0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpSZXNlYXJjaCBpbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgQ2hpbmEgbW9iaWxl IGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIGNvLiBMVEQNCkluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBzYWZldHkgdGVjaG5vbG9neQ0K RW1haWwgYWRkcmVzczogY2hlbm1laWxpbmdAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29tDQpQaG9uZTogMTM4MTAx NDk1MTUNCkFkZHJlc3M6IG5vLiAzMiwgeHVhbnd1bWVuIHdlc3Qgc3RyZWV0LCB4aWNoZW5nIGRp c3RyaWN0LCBCZWlqaW5nIChtb2JpbGUgaW5ub3ZhdGlvbiBidWlsZGluZykNCiANCg== ------=_001_NextPart274755583251_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A
I have read the draft-doron-dots-telemetry-00, it is = not neccessary to add all the parameters contained in the draft of draft-doron-dots-telemetry-00;
When discuss a par= ameter is needed for signal channel expansion or not, there are two proble= ms we need to take into consideration: 1, if the attack target can provide= the message? 2, if the parameter can really efficent for mitigation?
so far, network device can provide attack-bandwidth and attack-type = and  this two drafts will be merged into a single draft. 
= =0A

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<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri&qu= ot;,"sans-serif";=0Acolor:#1F497D">chenmeiling=EF=BC=88=E9=99=88=E7=BE=8E=E7=8E=B2= =EF=BC=89

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=0A=E5=AE=89=E5=85=A8=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E7=A0=94=E7=A9=B6=E6=89= =80
=0A=E9=82=AE=E7=AE=B1=EF=BC=9Achenmeiling@chinamobile.com=0A=E6=89=8B=E6=9C= =BA=EF=BC=9A13810149515<= /span>

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=E7= =94=B5=E8=AF=9D=EF=BC=9A= 15801696688-34283
=0A=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9A=E5=8C=97=E4=BA=AC=E5=B8=82=E8=A5=BF=E5=9F= =8E=E5=8C=BA=E5=AE=A3=E6=AD=A6=E9=97=A8=E8=A5=BF=E5=A4=A7=E8=A1=97<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri&qu= ot;,"sans-serif";=0Acolor:#1F497D">32=E5=8F=B7=EF=BC=88=E7=A7=BB=E5=8A=A8=E5=88=9B= =E6=96=B0=E5=A4=A7=E5=8E=A6=EF=BC=89=0A

=0A
 
Date: 2019-04-0= 1 21:37
<= b>Subject: RE: [Dots] Attack-bandwidth expansion: more discussion=
=0A=0A
=0A

We published a dr= aft =0Ahttps://t= ools.ietf.org/html/draft-doron-dots-telemetry-00 discussing various DO= TS telemetry including total attack traffic, but at that the decision was = to focus only on the mandatory attributes in the DOTS signal channel draft= .  Now that the core protocols=0A are almost ready, I think it=E2=80= =99s right time to look into the telemetry attributes. We should probably = discuss and consolidate the DOTS telemetry attributes in a single draft.= =0A

=0A

 =

=0A

Cheers,

=0A

-Tiru

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.o= rg> On Behalf Of =0A???
=0ASent: Friday, March 29, 201= 9 4:37 PM
=0ATo: dots <dots@ietf.org>
=0ASubject: [Dots] Attack-bandwidth expansion: more discussion

=0A=0A
=0A

 

=0A=
=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or = open=0A attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content i= s safe.

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Hi everyone,

=0A

Due to time constraints during my presentation, we hadn't make much m= ore discuss yesterday, 

=0A

I'd like to con= tinue discussion of these topics in the mail= if you have any questions about this draft. 

= =0A

 

=0A

=0AMeiLing Chen<= /o:p>

=0A

=0A-------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------

=0A=

=0AResearch institute of China mobile communications co. LT= D

=0A

=0AInstitute of safety technology=

=0A

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Thu, 04 Apr 2019 09:38:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUR76ScbBGyA43/oa/1dIW8o0eWvhKVsxRFH9gHT3p8SDDTm6tt IYMvd8YyoGbDSLGDdoLHQa+ohwo0taXtNXvzn6Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxAQwkbOyw0KWYOxlnGioawyqNNf4XB1/rOrA+mhJKuv1a8cL2FNbFxQCZJcHhXtxFXMcMgjOH/XSpywHxJyq8= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:618b:: with SMTP id j11mr5096546wru.123.1554395894520; Thu, 04 Apr 2019 09:38:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2019 09:38:02 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , Yoshifumi Nishida , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002226380585b6ff04" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2019 16:38:23 -0000 --0000000000002226380585b6ff04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 11:35 PM wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp] > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mercredi 3 avril 2019 00:02 > *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > *Cc :* Yoshifumi Nishida; tsv-art@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org > *Objet :* Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-3= 1 > > > > HI Med, > > > > Thanks for the reply. I put my comments in lines. > > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:55 PM wrote: > > Hi Yoshi, > > Thank you for the review. > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : dimanche 31 mars 2019 10:53 > > =C3=80 : tsv-art@ietf.org > > Cc : draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; > > dots@ietf.org > > Objet : Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 > > > > Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida > > Review result: Almost Ready > > > > This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review > team's > > ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were writte= n > > primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the > document's > > authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to t= he > > IETF > > discussion list for information. > > > > When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider th= is > > review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC > > tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. > > > > Summary: This document is almost ready for publication, but it will be > better > > to clarify the following points. > > > > 1: "it is out of scope of this document to specify the behavior to be > > followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple > > DOTS servers are provisioned." > > > > I'm not sure why it is out of scope. Does it bring a certain > > complexities > > to the protocol? > > Or, does it simply mean it is up to implementations? > > [Med] This is because of specific considerations such as those discussed > in draft-ietf-dots-multihoming. We don't want to overload the base spec > with such considerations (discussed in separate documents). The same > approach is followed for server discovery > (draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery). > > > > Got it. I think it would be useful for readers to mention it in the draft= . > > > > [Med] I updated the text as follows : > > > > Likewise, it is out of scope of this document to specify the behavior > > to be followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple > > DOTS servers are provisioned (e.g., contact all DOTS servers, select > > one DOTS server among the list). Such behavior is specified in other > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > documents (e.g., [I-D.ietf-dots-multihoming]). > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > WFM. Thanks for the updates! > > > > > > 2: "The DOTS client periodically repeats the mechanism to discover > whether > > DOTS signal > > channel messages with DTLS over UDP becomes available from the > DOTS > > server.." > > > > -> Does this mean DOTS clients will not repeat this when it > already > > has > > DTLS over UDP connection? > > What about if the client has DTLS over UDPv4? Does it try to > check > > DTLS over UDPv6? Also, is this logic MAY or SHOULD or don't > want > > to > > specify? > > [Med] The client will retry when the cache flushes out: > > > Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a > connection MUST cache information regarding the outcome of each > connection attempt for a specific time period, and it uses that > information to avoid thrashing the network with subsequent attempts. > > > > OK, but if you retry anyway after a certain time, why do you need to cach= e > the results? > > > > [Med] =E2=80=9Cto avoid thrashing the network with subsequent attempts=E2= =80=9D as the > text says. Also, caching avoids the inconvenience of selection during > attack times. Typically, the client executes the HE procedure when it > initializes and uses the outcome of the procedure for subsequent DOTS > signal exchanges during a certain period. Please refer to this text in th= e > draft: > Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs was TCP over IPv4 (just like the figure 4) and the client cache the info. After certain period of time, the client will do happy eyeball again because other better connections might be available . But, in this case, how the cached info will be used? It seems that an implementation that doesn't cache the info at all and does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be allowed in this draft. Thanks, -- Yoshi > --0000000000002226380585b6ff04 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Med,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 11:35 PM <mohamed.boucadai= r@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Please see inline.<= /span>

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida [mailto:nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp]
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mercredi 3 avril 2019 00:02
=C3=80=C2=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN
Cc=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida; tsv-art@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.a= ll@ietf.org; ietf@ie= tf.org; dots@ietf.or= g
Objet=C2=A0: Re: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-c= hannel-31

=C2=A0

HI Med,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the reply. I put my comments in lines.=

=C2=A0

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 11:55 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange= .com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

Thank you for the review.

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=C2=A0: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: dimanche 31 mars 2019 10:53
> =C3=80=C2=A0: ts= v-art@ietf.org
> Cc=C2=A0: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org;
> dots@ietf.org > Objet=C2=A0: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel= -31
>
> Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida
> Review result: Almost Ready
>
> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review t= eam's
> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were writt= en
> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the docu= ment's
> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to = the
> IETF
> discussion list for information.
>
> When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider t= his
> review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always C= C
> tsv-art@ietf.org= if you reply to or forward this review.
>
> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication, but it will be= better
> to clarify the following points.
>
> 1:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"it is out of scope of this document to specify th= e behavior to be
> followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DOTS servers are provisioned." >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm not sure why it is out of scope. Doe= s it bring a certain
> complexities
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to the protocol?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Or, does it simply mean it is up to implementation= s?

[Med] This is because of specific considerations such as those discussed in= draft-ietf-dots-multihoming. We don't want to overload the base spec w= ith such considerations (discussed in separate documents). The same approac= h is followed for server discovery (draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery).

=C2=A0

Got it. I think it would be useful for readers to me= ntion it in the draft.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[Med] I updated the text as follo= ws=C2=A0:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Likewise, it is out of scope of = this document to specify the behavior

=C2=A0=C2=A0 to be followed by a DOTS client = to send DOTS requests when multiple

=C2=A0=C2=A0 DOTS servers are provisioned (e.= g., contact all DOTS servers, select

=C2=A0=C2=A0 one DOTS server among the list).= =C2=A0 Such behavior is specified in other

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0documents (e.g.,=C2=A0 [I-D.= ietf-dots-multihoming]).

=C2=A0=C2=A0^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


WFM. Thanks for the updates!
=C2=A0

<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0

> 2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"The DOTS client periodical= ly repeats the mechanism to discover whether
> DOTS signal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0channel messages with DTLS over UDP b= ecomes available from the DOTS
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0server.."
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -> Does this mean DOTS clients will not = repeat this when it already
> has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DTLS over UDP connection?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What about if the client has = DTLS over UDPv4? Does it try to check
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DTLS over UDPv6? Also, is thi= s logic MAY or SHOULD or don't want
> to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specify?

[Med] The client will retry when the cache flushes out:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a =C2=A0 =C2=A0connection MUST cache information regarding the outcome of eac= h
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connection attempt for a specific time period, and it uses tha= t
=C2=A0 =C2=A0information to avoid thrashing the network with subsequent att= empts.

=C2=A0

OK, but if you retry anyway after a certain time, wh= y do you need to cache the results?

=C2=A0

[Med] =E2=80=9Cto = avoid thrashing the network with subsequent attempts=E2=80=9D as the text s= ays. Also, caching avoids the inconvenience of selection during attack times. T= ypically, the client executes the HE procedure when it initializes and uses= the outcome of the procedure for subsequent DOTS signal exchanges during a= certain period. Please refer to this text in the draft: =C2=A0=C2=A0


Hmm. let's say the resu= lts of the happy eyeballs was TCP over IPv4 (just like the figure 4) and th= e client cache the info.
After certain period of time, the client= will do happy eyeball again because other better connections might be avai= lable . But, in this case, how the cached info will be used?
=
It seems that an implementation that doesn't cache the i= nfo at all and does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be allowed i= n this draft.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi=
=
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Sun, 07 Apr 2019 23:53:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2019 23:53:32 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , Yoshifumi Nishida Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002892c70585ff4c89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 06:53:53 -0000 --0000000000002892c70585ff4c89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tiru, On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs was TCP over IPv4 (just > like the figure 4) and the client cache the info. > > After certain period of time, the client will do happy eyeball again > because other better connections might be available . But, in this case, > how the cached info will be used? > > > > [TR] The cache expires after a specific time period. If the cache has not > expired, the client uses the information from the cache. If cache has > expired, the client performs happy eyeball again. > > > > It seems that an implementation that doesn't cache the info at all and > does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be allowed in this draft. > > > > [TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few seconds after the > first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the network. The endpoint > may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few seconds for several > reasons (e.g. TLS session got terminated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted > etc.). > Thanks for the explanation. The logic makes sense to me. I think it would be good to articulate this a bit more in the draft. For example, the figure 4 example explains the probing period, but doesn't mention about the cache period. Thanks, -- Yoshi --0000000000002892c70585ff4c89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tiru,

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Ko= nda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs= was TCP over IPv4 (just like the figure 4) and the client cache the info.<= u>

After certain period of time, the client will do hap= py eyeball again because other better connections might be available . But,= in this case, how the cached info will be used?

=C2=A0

[TR] The cache expires after a specific time period.= If the cache has not expired, the client uses the information from the cac= he. If cache has expired, the client performs happy eyeball again.

=C2=A0

It seems that an implementation that doesn't cac= he the info at all and does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be a= llowed in this draft.

=C2=A0

[TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few= seconds after the first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the netwo= rk. The endpoint may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few sec= onds for several reasons (e.g. TLS session got terminated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted etc.).

=

Thanks for the explanation. The logi= c makes sense to me.=C2=A0
I think it would be good to articulate= this a bit more in the draft.
For example, the figure 4 example = explains the probing period, but doesn't mention about the cache period= .=C2=A0

Thanks,
--
Yoshi


=C2=A0
--0000000000002892c70585ff4c89-- From nobody Mon Apr 8 00:50:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5180E1201D9 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 00:50:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UYeKOYilGM8M for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FD241201D8 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 29413EA73BFF84D89C6B for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:50:18 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:50:17 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.232]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 15:50:07 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IETF 104th meeting DOTS session minutes is now available: Thread-Index: AdTt35+IwpKbRBXJQImrN8KSvKnSaQ== Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 07:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA4CE53dggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] IETF 104th meeting DOTS session minutes is now available: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 07:50:22 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA4CE53dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The IETF 104th meeting DOTS session minutes is published, thanks for Wei Pa= n's big help! If you are interested, please read it in the following link: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-104-dots?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue Thanks! B.R. Frank & Valery --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA4CE53dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

The IETF 104th meeti= ng DOTS session minutes is published, thanks for Wei Pan’s big help!<= o:p>

 

If you are interested, please r= ead it in the following link:

https://etherpad.ietf.= org/p/notes-ietf-104-dots?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue

 

Thanks!

 

B.R.

Frank & Valery

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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gNsxLKP7XeHP; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2F30120144; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jrN3HuIH9xkcWzqtAwNd+xBKWc8AMYPNZbwymVVayCc=; b=L5pqE9n/TBo/4CtcjAVHXH4ax1 L+uIpSCzWFm8fTffzSbnm/JiLxqKYEzL+Zk1xB4F3VHS1WUIMjGV/LECr09RqFrD8BRj48GAC9F6D APdaGlTDxdOPR6j5vMVdIV5Q88ZduNxExmEb8bOXt9zr4BIVjCRF/q8agY2JiEwHM/eKAaa63KG+5 rkA6KCv2YCUCM63iSXzAdxB+MDfcXtQy9m7FcMfJHQ2oHU2GEk/9ycogFreLNVo+RErFJEyJGp2gB dhT0PTIHxNVLCA+Z24K3RrhTfR802eVRIaHgjl1+zD69Cc5SL39XaIKyF/WLcNat27m8KMu9ZDraX XgUbS4NA==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=62676 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hDWCd-0003Ri-B9; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:28:55 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: , Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:28:48 +0300 Message-ID: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdTuH0lVtcvo9EorR7q3pCrtRR/S7g== Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:28:59 -0000 Hi all, the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date. If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why. Regards, Frank & Valery. From nobody Mon Apr 8 08:29:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20278120174; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-ei0FADHYI9; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2DFE1200C3; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=dd4G2/hALokA+SUISueQCRDR3mmJxi1h0PxLGievyI4=; b=vhkRb3jkwLeYiRPWA0ycSkIRUD JYBglfXxoRI/63n3O787JLbV3l0nVbzY2EY55aGV2YilepyLNgfEkhkD35t7wWNeIZL6++1Kg3nFX +ZCw23PF/fPDop1bYOhHyPQZi/RVzwC1E6E3hBuzKeqt3DfYVKYZsOlc2LTnKxPzYpayYPM9YvVGa Ka3TfgBQclTSfz+/27P1dEjUDDEaLunXSNbNM7UL+S+km8S+EIo3mscW3IV4H/yJYF3fXAJ7tM2O5 0yh3qoP9mH7QYQ9dFdinv8B3cNTbUNC17OYwftNK3ReQ0YZ0Ah1xefSrlaLzt4utJYz11nPZc6ar1 siiLpn7Q==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=62676 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hDWCb-0003Ri-W8; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 11:28:54 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: , Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:28:45 +0300 Message-ID: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOA== Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:28:59 -0000 Hi all, the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date. If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why. Regards, Frank & Valery. From nobody Mon Apr 8 08:32:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37164120174; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:31:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verisign.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXVNGStAFes4; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.verisign.com (mail1.verisign.com [72.13.63.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5799F120144; 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Mon, 8 Apr 2019 11:31:55 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([fe80::a89b:32d6:b967:337d]) by BRN1WNEX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([fe80::a89b:32d6:b967:337d%5]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 11:31:55 -0400 From: "Teague, Nik" To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 Thread-Index: AdTuH0lVtcvo9EorR7q3pCrtRR/S7gAANt0w Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 15:31:55 +0000 Message-ID: <7934aafaa1204ef093579286fae559f0@Verisign.com> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:31:59 -0000 Hi, I support adoption of this draft. Thanks, -Nik > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 4:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > control-filtering-06 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots= - > signal-control-filtering-06. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-sig= nal- > control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 8 08:32:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4784E1200C3; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:32:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verisign.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FRY_GH5XP808; 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Mon, 8 Apr 2019 11:32:20 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([fe80::a89b:32d6:b967:337d]) by BRN1WNEX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([fe80::a89b:32d6:b967:337d%5]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 11:32:20 -0400 From: "Teague, Nik" To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAAAuEJA Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 15:32:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.170.148.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:32:24 -0000 Hi, I support adoption of this draft. Thanks, -Nik > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 4:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-networ= k- > 04 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-hom= e- > network-04. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home- > network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 8 08:51:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62BC120309; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 43GrNL6uyQtZ; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 044E91201C0; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hDWXy-0000EX-MF; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:50:58 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Valery Smyslov'" , , , References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:50:57 +0100 Message-ID: <033501d4ee22$dcdc7080$96955180$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3aUl7oYA Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:51:15 -0000 Hi, As an author, I obviously support the adoption of this draft Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:ietf-supjps-dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery > Smyslov > Sent: 08 April 2019 16:29 > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home- > network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home- > network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, > please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 8 08:52:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24B6120309; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ePhW0c-8XTW6; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BD471201C0; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 08:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hDWYj-0000Eo-TR; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 16:51:46 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Valery Smyslov'" , , , References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 16:51:47 +0100 Message-ID: <033701d4ee22$f901f1e0$eb05d5a0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFofcDll063hnoOZ5xJUu1PCD2lGacLSjug Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:52:00 -0000 Hi, I support the adoption of this draft Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery > Smyslov > Sent: 08 April 2019 16:29 > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering- > 06 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots- > signal-control-filtering-06. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, > please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 8 17:19:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8666D1200C7; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoItTngikn3U; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp (dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp [202.19.227.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4229212000F; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:19:53 -0700 (PDT) X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound Received: from zssg-mailmd105.ddreams.local (zssg-mailmd900.ddreams.local [10.160.172.63]) by zssg-mailou102.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968871200DD; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (zssg-mailmf900.ddreams.local [10.160.172.84]) by zssg-mailmd105.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTP id <0PPO00MBO3L4WM60@dDREAMS>; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7617E6032; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7945F8E6054; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:52 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with SMTP id 77D2A8E6042; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:52 +0900 (JST) X-IMSS-HAND-OFF-DIRECTIVE: localhost:10026 Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DBB18E6050; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailua102.ddreams.local (unknown [10.160.172.62]) by zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:19:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from RDSVVDI0520 (unknown [10.171.65.192]) by zssg-mailua102.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTPA id <0PPO00S4M3KQK8B0@dDREAMS>; Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:19:46 +0900 (JST) From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCTlMhIU01Sj8bKEI=?= References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> In-reply-to: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:19:38 +0900 Message-id: <001901d4ee69$eb677630$c2366290$@hco.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-language: ja Thread-index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3aUmfr6A To: 'Valery Smyslov' , dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 00:19:55 -0000 Hi, I support adoption of this draft. Thanks, Yuhei -----Original Message----- From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:29 AM To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Hi all, the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date. If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why. Regards, Frank & Valery. _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 8 23:56:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E581203E1; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:56:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JgNdGxvG6tGR; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EC6212075A; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com (mail-wr1-f46.google.com [209.85.221.46]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12A1F278B77; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 15:56:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id h4so19304259wre.7; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:56:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWGOssKOG8dHauommbYBdQEq/RjRlUxwnQy9tUuw6+D5ukAmYun rBM8Vntd1fG1IYNDwignlJRVp0cfwF8g0ipS29s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw1Fx2RCq8xNMWyy2HKXU3XzjiW3InhyT3t7Hkw3WZYz3fJPwoc9tSyewKyx86LwyI2bj/1LA0y+sRNNw2+rRs= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:698b:: with SMTP id g11mr22221548wru.65.1554792996002; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:56:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 23:56:24 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , Yoshifumi Nishida Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000039e378058613741f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 06:56:44 -0000 --00000000000039e378058613741f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tiru, I put my comments in lines. On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 1:40 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Please see inline [TR2] > > > > *From:* Yoshifumi Nishida > *Sent:* Monday, April 8, 2019 12:24 PM > *To:* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > *Cc:* Yoshifumi Nishida ; > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; ietf@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; > tsv-art@ietf.org; Yoshifumi Nishida > *Subject:* Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 > > > > *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > ------------------------------ > > Hi Tiru, > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < > TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > > Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs was TCP over IPv4 (just > like the figure 4) and the client cache the info. > > After certain period of time, the client will do happy eyeball again > because other better connections might be available . But, in this case, > how the cached info will be used? > > > > [TR] The cache expires after a specific time period. If the cache has not > expired, the client uses the information from the cache. If cache has > expired, the client performs happy eyeball again. > > > > It seems that an implementation that doesn't cache the info at all and > does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be allowed in this draft. > > > > [TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few seconds after the > first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the network. The endpoint > may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few seconds for several > reasons (e.g. TLS session got terminated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted > etc.). > > > > Thanks for the explanation. The logic makes sense to me. > > I think it would be good to articulate this a bit more in the draft. > > For example, the figure 4 example explains the probing period, but doesn't > mention about the cache period. > > > > [TR2] > > Sure, we can update the text as follows: > > > > Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a connection > MUST cache information regarding the outcome of each > > connection attempt and the cached information should be flushed when its > age exceeds a system-defined maximum on the order of few minutes (e.g. 2 > minutes). > > If the DOTS client has to re-establish the connection with the DOTS server > within few seconds after the Happy Eyeballs mechanism is complete, > > caching avoids trashing the network in the presence of DDoS attack > traffic. > Thanks for the updates. But, one thing.. The text suggests cache period would be the order of few minutes. But, this value seems to be much smaller compared to "probing SHOULD NOT be done more than every 24 hours". -- Yoshi --00000000000039e378058613741f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tiru,

I = put my comments in lines.

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 1:40 AM Konda, T= irumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Please see inline [TR2]

=C2=A0

From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <= br> Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com= >
Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; = ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; tsv-art@ietf.org; Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@wide.ad.jp>=
Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signa= l-channel-31

=C2=A0

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz= e the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Tiru,

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar = Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs= was TCP over IPv4 (just like the figure 4) and the client cache the info.<= u>

After certain period of time, the client will do hap= py eyeball again because other better connections might be available . But,= in this case, how the cached info will be used?

=C2=A0

[TR] The cache expires after a specific time period.= If the cache has not expired, the client uses the information from the cac= he. If cache has expired, the client performs happy eyeball again.

=C2=A0

It seems that an implementation that doesn't cac= he the info at all and does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be a= llowed in this draft.

=C2=A0

[TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few= seconds after the first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the netwo= rk. The endpoint may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few seconds for several reasons (e.g. TLS session got termi= nated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted etc.).

=C2=A0

Thanks for the explanation. The logic makes sense to= me.=C2=A0

I think it would be good to articulate this a bit mo= re in the draft.

For example, the figure 4 example explains the probi= ng period, but doesn't mention about the cache period.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

[TR2]

Sure, we can update the text as follows:

=C2=A0

Note that the DOTS clie= nt after successfully establishing a connection MUST cache information rega= rding the outcome of each

connection attempt and = the cached information should be flushed when its age exceeds a system-defi= ned maximum on the order of few minutes (e.g. 2 minutes).

If the DOTS client has = to re-establish the connection with the DOTS server within few seconds afte= r the Happy Eyeballs mechanism is complete,

=C2=A0=C2=A0caching avoids trashing the network in t= he presence of DDoS attack traffic.=C2=A0

=

Thanks for the updates. But, one thi= ng.. The text suggests cache period would be the order of few minutes.
But, this value seems to be much smaller compared to "probing SHOULD NOT be done more than every 24 hours&= quot;.
--
= Yoshi
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ESMTP id AFCA412087C; Tue, 9 Apr 2019 09:27:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , dots@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, kaduk@mit.edu, dots-chairs@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org, Liang Xia Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <155482726771.19582.16787267191617654822.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 09:27:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Document Action: 'Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2019 16:27:48 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements' (draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Benjamin Kaduk and Roman Danyliw. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ Technical Summary This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling coordinated response to DDoS attacks. The working group has the consensus to publish it as an informational RFC since it is a requirements draft. Working Group Summary This document has been extensively reviewed and discussed within the working group by mailing list and github, and all technical issues raised have been resolved, most of them are before the -10 version. After long term discussion among the WG and enough iterations of updates, the draft is mature enough and there is strong consensus in the WG to advance to publication. Document Quality The co-authors are from leading vendors in DDoS protection industry with extensive experience with the related technologies and implementations; they are also the core authors of the DOTS protocol WG drafts, which guarantees consistency among the requirements draft with them. This draft covers different categories of requirements for: general, signal channel, data channel, security and data model. The signal channel requirements are the most important and complex, as it works during the attack time and thus requires the highest resilience, efficiency and fault tolerance. Specially, the heartbeat handling (SIG-004) and NAT traversal (SIG-010) issues are considered highly complicated as they include many corner cases, and are discussed mostly in the WG. So, careful review of them is needed. Personnel The document shepherd is Liang Xia. The responsible Area Director is Benjamin Kaduk. 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APXvYqxthGhWTj4yctTjS/inhz2jZJzMfx4Ny7F7MKlmk10FdWqhPzHOwNIbmxLXKgw4MKfby+Icew== X-Received: by 2002:a63:d250:: with SMTP id t16mr40407280pgi.288.1554906893969; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.31.0.24] ([216.50.165.66]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k6sm38140443pfj.173.2019.04.10.07.34.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Andrew Mortensen In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:34:56 -0400 Cc: dots , dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8F1833D5-92FE-4A28-A0FA-D52EE2B0A1CE@gmail.com> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> To: Valery Smyslov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:34:56 -0000 I support adoption of this draft. > On Apr 8, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Valery Smyslov = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the = list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether = you're willing=20 > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Apr 10 07:35:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7635812012E; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4yXB5HXv0mQD; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x531.google.com (mail-pg1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA1A4120021; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x531.google.com with SMTP id f6so1671604pgs.8; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=xAHlO4g9W7q5/tRwc+PAPspOQBHBG7ClHKR+FJU0rgk=; b=M9xdzq70ja6EnYJg3X7g5cgeDw1mKf2EiGIRHH5599gOq2Ue6FpsfaitmJhB8sBuM+ pde/+umQ+cxtv+lzOqPb815tMiBY7k03D0NtWllTeoBNGL36Srk/bLJTykJ/OElXWRxB J9T7cTdwD1hLjL8AORA1yud/rP3iA4B5qzL1jweneHgxCEuQa7x5YalspLgqovPa7fZN /KQaXwT4chNMW2Z5uJ6DvvWBCHyIUvKBgj5zEXQ3ItsxQWUB8qJHVQOWI8tgI5pkoAiJ 2sQb7bJQ8MzZc/tZIiOWdeAFe4pKFd5yKQkHc6A9++EORra0M+V00zNWACOhvcR66YXg w+Qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=xAHlO4g9W7q5/tRwc+PAPspOQBHBG7ClHKR+FJU0rgk=; b=D2lxSPgOIkBjy1uEQ3ZhFh3v/r0BaFnV9jiNjqJj7uH0iHXS5LRQk/9C6Zo79PuXM/ vM9c727wT7VxY1LJwbnm9YNOwY27TFEJ56WzssW8DycFRqTBdKTLg5+fEivxgPDL9mI1 5nYe+zlVu72fdmQmR8+tVjMb10z0Q9GO9AK+diZx0Nyzpgl/mlWFrVXc4tIoGX0xTDs5 mIsVKb8SYFcrbwW6DppAh/ektSxNMabz+sliuf+Y+GxX5aXh3vheWoUrtc4vc0ajAAWb zFQGxTdajpiOhLgywr+8zgmpZpJMnMOLlHlfEqrQHR2PWlO2XVrO+mB0fci/6+oQka0k Y4xw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUb/fT6d0FuciSagZldg0Vr3HghPWfEqL1Dt5/5/b1PbawjCTNc BvS7MV5kXjg1U07ossXkHHHIUu7IxX35MQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxlx5EjVN0ze8eWBkKiQZAgDoje/Ss84aUE/IAjxiZ6Nz9Ang+yCdP4l3RNLOuuwydB/9Tyrg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:481:: with SMTP id 123mr42153560pge.167.1554906946501; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.31.0.24] ([216.50.165.66]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k6sm38140443pfj.173.2019.04.10.07.35.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Andrew Mortensen In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:35:49 -0400 Cc: dots , dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <657D8E7E-96C8-4A25-8A65-DD846E027097@gmail.com> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> To: Valery Smyslov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:35:48 -0000 I support adoption of this draft. > On Apr 8, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Valery Smyslov = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the = list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether = you're willing=20 > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Apr 10 23:06:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E372120173; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vcP48uu22urU; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp [IPv6:2001:200:0:8803:203:178:142:146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82EA0120074; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-f53.google.com (mail-wr1-f53.google.com [209.85.221.53]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4A5E29C009; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 15:06:20 +0900 (JST) Received: by mail-wr1-f53.google.com with SMTP id s15so5551581wra.12; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWHp6IPGHKKqLagXkKp48tmfOzdAeF76blV3JDbpJByvAI1moKi V3wuzrZw6Z61wad8J8w24ehMteC21dEE3qS/Xis= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyoMbAhaRCX59Jol5cqrnbsxwTG3N0poF0yvO0Kfo6Lh3TfwRZMhewrkj2UjxDznBzUub1RKQKiYqplDVYdSyE= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:698b:: with SMTP id g11mr30664226wru.65.1554962778517; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA51A15@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:06:07 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Yoshifumi Nishida Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d780f05863afcea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 06:06:28 -0000 --0000000000000d780f05863afcea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tiru, On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:26 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > Please see inline [TR3] > > > > *From:* Dots *On Behalf Of * Yoshifumi Nishida > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:26 PM > *To:* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > *Cc:* ietf@ietf.org; Yoshifumi Nishida ; > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; > tsv-art@ietf.org; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Yoshifumi Nishida < > nishida@wide.ad.jp> > *Subject:* Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 > > > > *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > ------------------------------ > > Hi Tiru, > > > > I put my comments in lines. > > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 1:40 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < > TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > > Hi Yoshi, > > > > Please see inline [TR2] > > > > *From:* Yoshifumi Nishida > *Sent:* Monday, April 8, 2019 12:24 PM > *To:* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > *Cc:* Yoshifumi Nishida ; > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com ; > ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; > tsv-art@ietf.org ; Yoshifumi Nishida < > nishida@wide.ad.jp> > *Subject:* Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 > > > > *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > ------------------------------ > > Hi Tiru, > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < > TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > > Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs was TCP over IPv4 (just > like the figure 4) and the client cache the info. > > After certain period of time, the client will do happy eyeball again > because other better connections might be available . But, in this case, > how the cached info will be used? > > > > [TR] The cache expires after a specific time period. If the cache has not > expired, the client uses the information from the cache. If cache has > expired, the client performs happy eyeball again. > > > > It seems that an implementation that doesn't cache the info at all and > does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be allowed in this draft. > > > > [TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few seconds after the > first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the network. The endpoint > may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few seconds for several > reasons (e.g. TLS session got terminated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted > etc.). > > > > Thanks for the explanation. The logic makes sense to me. > > I think it would be good to articulate this a bit more in the draft. > > For example, the figure 4 example explains the probing period, but doesn't > mention about the cache period. > > > > [TR2] > > Sure, we can update the text as follows: > > > > Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a connection > MUST cache information regarding the outcome of each > > connection attempt and the cached information should be flushed when its > age exceeds a system-defined maximum on the order of few minutes (e.g. 2 > minutes). > > If the DOTS client has to re-establish the connection with the DOTS server > within few seconds after the Happy Eyeballs mechanism is complete, > > caching avoids trashing the network in the presence of DDoS attack > traffic. > > > > Thanks for the updates. But, one thing.. The text suggests cache period > would be the order of few minutes. > > But, this value seems to be much smaller compared to "probing SHOULD NOT > be done more than every 24 hours". > > > > [TR3] The probing is for a scenario where the client is using TLS (over > TCP) for the signal channel and probes to check if DTLS (over UDP) becomes > available. If the probing finds DTLS over UDP is available, the client > disconnects the TLS over TCP and re-connects to the server using DTLS over > UDP transport. > Thanks for explanation. OK. so, probing and cache is irrelevant. I have thought about if this is confusing or not for a bit. But, I think it's ok after I re-read the text. I don't have any more comments. Thanks, -- Yoshi --0000000000000d780f05863afcea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tiru,

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:26 AM Kon= da, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Please see inline [TR3]

=C2=A0

From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Yoshifumi Nishida
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:26 PM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com= >
Cc: ietf@ietf.org= ; Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>; draft-ietf-dots-signal-c= hannel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; t= sv-art@ietf.org; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@wide.ad.jp>=
Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signa= l-channel-31

=C2=A0

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<= /span>

Hi Tiru,

=C2=A0

I put my comments in lines.

=C2=A0

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 1:40 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar R= eddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Hi Yoshi,

=C2=A0

Please see inline [TR2]

=C2=A0

From: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@sfc.wide.ad.jp>; mohamed.= boucadair@orange.com; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; t= sv-art@ietf.org; Yoshifumi Nishida <nishida@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signa= l-channel-31

=C2=A0

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz= e the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Tiru,

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 10:46 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar = Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

Hmm. let's say the results of the happy eyeballs= was TCP over IPv4 (just like the figure 4) and the client cache the info.<= u>

After certain period of time, the client will do hap= py eyeball again because other better connections might be available . But,= in this case, how the cached info will be used?

=C2=A0

[TR] The cache expires after a specific time period.= If the cache has not expired, the client uses the information from the cac= he. If cache has expired, the client performs happy eyeball again.

=C2=A0

It seems that an implementation that doesn't cac= he the info at all and does happy eyeballs at every 10 hours won't be a= llowed in this draft.

=C2=A0

[TR] No, but if the subsequent attempt is within few= seconds after the first attempt of happy eyeball, it would trash the netwo= rk. The endpoint may have to re-establish the (D)TLS session within few seconds for several reasons (e.g. TLS session got termi= nated, DOTS server rebooted NAT rebooted etc.).

=C2=A0

Thanks for the explanation. The logic makes sense to= me.=C2=A0

I think it would be good to articulate this a bit mo= re in the draft.

For example, the figure 4 example explains the probi= ng period, but doesn't mention about the cache period.=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

[TR2]

Sure, we can update the text as follows:

=C2=A0

Note that the DOTS client after successfully establishing a connection MUST= cache information regarding the outcome of each

connection attempt and the cached information should be flushed when its ag= e exceeds a system-defined maximum on the order of few minutes (e.g. 2 minu= tes).

If the DOTS client has to re-establish the connection with the DOTS server = within few seconds after the Happy Eyeballs mechanism is complete,

=C2=A0=C2=A0caching avoids trashing the network in t= he presence of DDoS attack traffic.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks for the updates. But, one thing.. The text su= ggests cache period would be the order of few minutes.

But, this value seems to be much smaller compared to= "probing SHOULD NOT be done more than eve= ry 24 hours".

=C2=A0

[TR3] The probing is for a scenario where the client= is using TLS (over TCP) for the signal channel and probes to check if DTLS= (over UDP) becomes available. If the probing finds DTLS over UDP is availa= ble, the client disconnects the TLS over TCP and re-connects to the server using DTLS over UDP transport.

<= /div>

T= hanks for explanation.
OK. so, probing and cache is irrelevant. I= have thought about if this is confusing or not for a bit. But, I think it&= #39;s ok after I re-read the text.
I don't have any more comm= ents.=C2=A0
Thanks,
--
Yoshi




--0000000000000d780f05863afcea-- From nobody Sun Apr 14 20:06:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDC012007C; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:06:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2MbIY55nfnuY; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68C5C120047; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2FA5D26692BC08CD8200; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 04:06:35 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 04:06:34 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:06:30 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAFGr25w Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 03:06:29 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 03:06:40 -0000 Hi, I support adoption of this draft. Best Regards Wei Pan -----Original Message----- From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Hi all, the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-= network-04. This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04. The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list be= fore this date. If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're wi= lling to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adop= ted, please explain why. Regards, Frank & Valery. _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Sun Apr 14 20:07:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13AB12007C; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:07:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7XgpSs6lchwh; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F148120047; Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E2F6CE634DBCF42113BA; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 04:07:33 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 04:07:33 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:07:27 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 Thread-Index: AdTuH0lVtcvo9EorR7q3pCrtRR/S7gFGPsRw Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 03:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A591@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 03:07:37 -0000 Hi, I support adoption of this draft. Best Regards Wei Pan -----Original Message----- From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filte= ring-06 Hi all, the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots-s= ignal-control-filtering-06. This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signa= l-control-filtering-06. The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list be= fore this date. If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're wi= lling to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adop= ted, please explain why. Regards, Frank & Valery. _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 15 05:21:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19865120170; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 05:21:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stephen Farrell via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 05:21:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 12:21:22 -0000 Reviewer: Stephen Farrell Review result: Has Issues I took a look at the changes between -30 and -31 and at the mail following my earlier review of -30. To explain the "has issues" status for this review: Generally, I think this is probably ok, but I (still) have the concerns listed below that the ADs might wanna think about. The authors already responded on each of these points, and made some corresponding changes, so I guess they reckon these are non-issues. (Which is of course fine - even if I don't quite agree, I'm often wrong:-) - p13: The cuid still seems to me to be too static (there's a SHOULD saying to tie it to the client certificate public key or an equivalent). I still think recommending a way to generate an identifier that isn't tied to a key pair would be better, esp if this could be used in a CPE. (Creating a new long-lived identifier for a CPE seems like a bad plan if it's not really needed.) For example, one could use both the SPKI and a timestamp as input for a recommended way to generate a cuid and that should be as unique, but without mapping 1:1 to possibly long-lived key pairs. (-31 does say some more about how to change cuid, but still has the same SHOULD/RECOMMENDED way to generate cuid values.) - I wondered if a bad actor in control of an authorised DOTS client colluding with the controller of a DDoS attack could use this protocol to probe the network to see how their attack is going and change the attack to be more effective. In mail, the authors stated that this isn't possible, and added text saying that to -31. That may be true, but I'm not sure (given the complexity of the protocol). A nit: - p91: The mention of TCP-AO seems to require suspension of disbelief (given the lack of deployment of TCP-AO). If we don't think it'll be used, it'd be better to not pretend it might get used. From nobody Mon Apr 15 06:16:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F921203A2; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:16:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Pfha5x7ptcU; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1F7D120390; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44jTY03n6pzFpbq; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.76]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44jTY02F93zCqlN; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:16:36 +0200 From: To: Stephen Farrell , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 Thread-Index: AQHU84W+t2C1NhRJPEGTSxi4oDGffqY9MHkg Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:16:35 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:16:44 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiwgYWxsLCANCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUgZm9yIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBpdGVt LiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERl wqA6IFN0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCB2aWEgRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgW21haWx0bzpub3JlcGx5QGlldGYu b3JnXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IGx1bmRpIDE1IGF2cmlsIDIwMTkgMTQ6MjENCj4gw4DCoDogc2Vj ZGlyQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IENjwqA6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtY2hhbm5lbC5hbGxA aWV0Zi5vcmc7IGlldGZAaWV0Zi5vcmc7DQo+IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogU2Vj ZGlyIHRlbGVjaGF0IHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNoYW5uZWwtMzEN Cj4gDQo+IFJldmlld2VyOiBTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwNCj4gUmV2aWV3IHJlc3VsdDogSGFzIElz c3Vlcw0KPiANCj4gSSB0b29rIGEgbG9vayBhdCB0aGUgY2hhbmdlcyBiZXR3ZWVuIC0zMCBhbmQg LTMxIGFuZCBhdCB0aGUgbWFpbA0KPiBmb2xsb3dpbmcgbXkgZWFybGllciByZXZpZXcgb2YgLTMw Lg0KPiANCj4gVG8gZXhwbGFpbiB0aGUgImhhcyBpc3N1ZXMiIHN0YXR1cyBmb3IgdGhpcyByZXZp ZXc6IEdlbmVyYWxseSwgSQ0KPiB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIHByb2JhYmx5IG9rLCBidXQgSSAoc3Rp bGwpIGhhdmUgdGhlIGNvbmNlcm5zIGxpc3RlZA0KPiBiZWxvdyB0aGF0IHRoZSBBRHMgbWlnaHQg d2FubmEgdGhpbmsgYWJvdXQuIFRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGFscmVhZHkNCj4gcmVzcG9uZGVkIG9uIGVh Y2ggb2YgdGhlc2UgcG9pbnRzLCBhbmQgbWFkZSBzb21lIGNvcnJlc3BvbmRpbmcNCj4gY2hhbmdl cywgc28gSSBndWVzcyB0aGV5IHJlY2tvbiB0aGVzZSBhcmUgbm9uLWlzc3Vlcy4gKFdoaWNoIGlz IG9mDQo+IGNvdXJzZSBmaW5lIC0gZXZlbiBpZiBJIGRvbid0IHF1aXRlIGFncmVlLCBJJ20gb2Z0 ZW4gd3Jvbmc6LSkNCj4gDQo+IC0gcDEzOiBUaGUgY3VpZCBzdGlsbCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0byBi ZSB0b28gc3RhdGljICh0aGVyZSdzIGENCg0KW01lZF0gVGhpcyBpcyBhIGZlYXR1cmUgbm90IGEg YnVnLiBUaGlzIHNjaGVtZSBpcyBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkgdXNlZnVsIHRvIHJlY292ZXIgc3RhdGUs IGZvciBleGFtcGxlLCB1cG9uIHJlYm9vdCBvciBjcmFzaCBvZiBhIERPVFMgY2xpZW50LiANCg0K PiBTSE9VTEQgc2F5aW5nIHRvIHRpZSBpdCB0byB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIHB1Ymxp YyBrZXkNCj4gb3IgYW4gZXF1aXZhbGVudCkuICBJIHN0aWxsIHRoaW5rIHJlY29tbWVuZGluZyBh IHdheSB0byBnZW5lcmF0ZQ0KPiBhbiBpZGVudGlmaWVyIHRoYXQgaXNuJ3QgdGllZCB0byBhIGtl eSBwYWlyIHdvdWxkIGJlIGJldHRlciwgZXNwDQo+IGlmIHRoaXMgY291bGQgYmUgdXNlZCBpbiBh IENQRS4gKENyZWF0aW5nIGEgbmV3IGxvbmctbGl2ZWQNCj4gaWRlbnRpZmllciBmb3IgYSBDUEUg c2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIGJhZCBwbGFuIGlmIGl0J3Mgbm90IHJlYWxseQ0KPiBuZWVkZWQuKSBGb3Ig ZXhhbXBsZSwgb25lIGNvdWxkIHVzZSBib3RoIHRoZSBTUEtJIGFuZCBhIHRpbWVzdGFtcA0KPiBh cyBpbnB1dCBmb3IgYSByZWNvbW1lbmRlZCB3YXkgdG8gZ2VuZXJhdGUgYSBjdWlkIGFuZCB0aGF0 IHNob3VsZA0KPiBiZSBhcyB1bmlxdWUsIGJ1dCB3aXRob3V0IG1hcHBpbmcgMToxIHRvIHBvc3Np Ymx5IGxvbmctbGl2ZWQga2V5DQo+IHBhaXJzLiAoLTMxIGRvZXMgc2F5IHNvbWUgbW9yZSBhYm91 dCBob3cgdG8gY2hhbmdlIGN1aWQsIGJ1dCBzdGlsbA0KPiBoYXMgdGhlIHNhbWUgU0hPVUxEL1JF Q09NTUVOREVEIHdheSB0byBnZW5lcmF0ZSBjdWlkIHZhbHVlcy4pDQo+IA0KPiAtIEkgd29uZGVy ZWQgaWYgYSBiYWQgYWN0b3IgaW4gY29udHJvbCBvZiBhbiBhdXRob3Jpc2VkIERPVFMNCj4gY2xp ZW50IGNvbGx1ZGluZyB3aXRoIHRoZSBjb250cm9sbGVyIG9mIGEgRERvUyBhdHRhY2sgY291bGQg dXNlDQo+IHRoaXMgcHJvdG9jb2wgdG8gcHJvYmUgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyB0aGVp ciBhdHRhY2sgaXMNCj4gZ29pbmcgYW5kIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgYXR0YWNrIHRvIGJlIG1vcmUgZWZm ZWN0aXZlLiAgSW4gbWFpbCwgdGhlDQo+IGF1dGhvcnMgc3RhdGVkIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBpc24ndCBw b3NzaWJsZSwgYW5kIGFkZGVkIHRleHQgc2F5aW5nDQo+IHRoYXQgdG8gLTMxLiBUaGF0IG1heSBi ZSB0cnVlLCBidXQgSSdtIG5vdCBzdXJlIChnaXZlbiB0aGUNCj4gY29tcGxleGl0eSBvZiB0aGUg cHJvdG9jb2wpLg0KPiANCj4gQSBuaXQ6DQo+IA0KPiAtIHA5MTogVGhlIG1lbnRpb24gb2YgVENQ LUFPIHNlZW1zIHRvIHJlcXVpcmUgc3VzcGVuc2lvbiBvZg0KPiBkaXNiZWxpZWYgKGdpdmVuIHRo ZSBsYWNrIG9mIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgb2YgVENQLUFPKS4gIElmIHdlIGRvbid0DQo+IHRoaW5rIGl0 J2xsIGJlIHVzZWQsIGl0J2QgYmUgYmV0dGVyIHRvIG5vdCBwcmV0ZW5kIGl0IG1pZ2h0IGdldA0K PiB1c2VkLg0KPiANCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Apr 15 06:26:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D752F120143; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zR8MOHKdIhjl; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B3BE120127; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 06:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C57BE7B; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:25:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ES1nAfyENBoH; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:25:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (unknown [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CAD3EBE74; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:25:49 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1555334749; bh=SNEXtyg13k8PsHEoJEy5GVDV+csMIkLYWClBvdLOcVY=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=mRaPSd81Ge0AUgUYoqrd9Jj1/QAQbaSAQDKfe3sC0+TFM93XH4U19EuyD6nWpHLU1 lCHEv091RCVaLgeDuA+xLofUISrvhfiE4KcJ5Xa/TcK0g1L6CojxXr2PqVBZB+LGtv 51Dd5IwoyeB3aaSCs5gKQiw89w+U7Eq+E0YeaKdU= To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; url= Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr EMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZU bUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqO Vz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJg b097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k 4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9tlyWxn5Xi HzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQABtDJTdGVwaGVuIEZh cnJlbGwgKDIwMTcpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPokCQAQTAQgAKgIbAwUJ CZQmAAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWj6jdwIZAQAKCRBasvrxexcr6o7QD/9m x9DPJetmW794RXmNTrbTJ44zc/tJbcLdRBh0KBn9OW/EaAqjDmgNJeCMyJTKr1ywaps8HGUN hLEVkc14NUpgi4/Zkrbi3DmTp25OHj6wXBS5qVMyVynTMEIjOfeFFyxG+48od+Xn7qg6LT7G rHeNf+z/r0v9+8eZ1Ip63kshQDGhhpmRMKu4Ws9ZvTW2ACXkkTFaSGYJj3yIP4R6IgwBYGMz DXFX6nS4LA1s3pcPNxOgrvCyb60AiJZTLcOk/rRrpZtXB1XQc23ZZmrlTkl2HaThL6w3YKdi Ti1NbuMeOxZqtXcUshII45sANm4HuWNTiRh93Bn5bN6ddjgsaXEZBKUBuUaPBl7gQiQJcAlS 3MmGgVS4ZoX8+VaPGpXdQVFyBMRFlOKOC5XJESt7wY0RE2C8PFm+5eywSO/P1fkl9whkMgml 3OEuIQiP2ehRt/HVLMHkoM9CPQ7t6UwdrXrvX+vBZykav8x9U9M6KTgfsXytxUl6Vx5lPMLi 2/Jrsz6Mzh/IVZa3xjhq1OLFSI/tT2ji4FkJDQbO+yYUDhcuqfakDmtWLMxecZsY6O58A/95 8Qni6Xeq+Nh7zJ7wNcQOMoDGj+24di2TX1cKLzdDMWFaWzlNP5dB5VMwS9Wqj1Z6TzKjGjru q8soqohwb2CK9B3wzFg0Bs1iBI+2RuFnxLkCDQRaPVAyARAA+g3R0HzGr/Dl34Y07XqGqzq5 SU0nXIu9u8Ynsxj7gR5qb3HgUWYEWrHW2jHOByXnvkffucf5yzwrsvw8Q8iI8CFHiTYHPpey 4yPVn6R0w/FOMcY70eTIu/k6EEFDlDbs09DtKcrsT9bmN0XoRxITlXwWTufYqUnmS+YkAuk+ TLCtUin7OdaS2uU6Ata3PLQSeM2ZsUQMmYmHPwB9rmf+q2I005AJ9Q1SPQ2KNg/8xOGxo13S VuaSqYRQdpV93RuCOzg4vuXtR+gP0KQrus/P2ZCEPvU9cXF/2MIhXgOz207lv3iE2zGyNXld /n8spvWk+0bH5Zqd9Wcba/rGcBhmX9NKKDARZqjkv/zVEP1X97w1HsNYeUFNcg2lk9zQKb4v l1jx/Uz8ukzH2QNhU4R39dbF/4AwWuSVkGW6bTxHJqGs6YimbfdQqxTzmqFwz3JP0OtXX5q/ 6D4pHwcmJwEiDNzsBLl6skPSQ0Xyq3pua/qAP8MVm+YxCxJQITqZ8qjDLzoe7s9X6FLLC/DA L9kxl5saVSfDbuI3usH/emdtn0NA9/M7nfgih92zD92sl1yQXHT6BDa8xW1j+RU4P+E0wyd7 zgB2UeYgrp2IIcfG+xX2uFG5MJQ/nYfBoiALb0+dQHNHDtFnNGY3Oe8z1M9c5aDG3/s29QbJ +w7hEKKo9YMAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWj1QMgIbDAUJCZQmAAAKCRBasvrxexcr6qwvD/9b Rek3kfN8Q+jGrKl8qwY8HC5s4mhdDJZI/JP2FImf5J2+d5/e8UJ4fcsT79E0/FqX3Z9wZr6h sofPqLh1/YzDsYkZDHTYSGrlWGP/I5kXwUmFnBZHzM3WGrL3S7ZmCYMdudhykxXXjq7M6Do1 oxM8JofrXGtwBTLv5wfvvygJouVCVe87Ge7mCeY5vey1eUi4zSSF1zPpR6gg64w2g4TXM5qt SwkZVOv1g475LsGlYWRuJV8TA67yp1zJI7HkNqCo8KyHX0DPOh9c+Sd9ZX4aqKfqH9HIpnCL AYEgj7vofeix7gM3kQQmwynqq32bQGQBrKJEYp2vfeO30VsVx4dzuuiC5lyjUccVmw5D72J0 FlGrfEm0kw6D1qwyBg0SAMqamKN6XDdjhNAtXIaoA2UMZK/vZGGUKbqTgDdk0fnzOyb2zvXK CiPFKqIPAqKaDHg0JHdGI3KpQdRNLLzgx083EqEc6IAwWA6jSz+6lZDV6XDgF0lYqAYIkg3+ 6OUXUv6plMlwSHquiOc/MQXHfgUP5//Ra5JuiuyCj954FD+MBKIj8eWROfnzyEnBplVHGSDI ZLzL3pvV14dcsoajdeIH45i8DxnVm64BvEFHtLNlnliMrLOrk4shfmWyUqNlzilXN2BTFVFH 4MrnagFdcFnWYp1JPh96ZKjiqBwMv/H0kw== Message-ID: <6c4b8d89-c114-103e-9a6e-5a8ae6a59350@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:25:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uW7qq4xEiivNmN862CpuVxqTE6lrc9Cwp" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:25:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --uW7qq4xEiivNmN862CpuVxqTE6lrc9Cwp Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ot53OlrZcHHDWFud1am6uJO3DkxLeiCh7"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: <6c4b8d89-c114-103e-9a6e-5a8ae6a59350@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 References: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> --ot53OlrZcHHDWFud1am6uJO3DkxLeiCh7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4AFFDD1103EAED0DC1E49C86" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4AFFDD1103EAED0DC1E49C86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 15/04/2019 14:16, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >> - p13: The cuid still seems to me to be too static (there's a > > [Med] This is a feature not a bug. This scheme is particularly useful > to recover state, for example, upon reboot or crash of a DOTS client. >=20 Well, fair enough, but FWIW I'm not convinced that a client that can keep state (the private key and other dots stuff) couldn't also as easily keep a cuid value. And ISTM there should also be equally good ways to recommend for generating a cuid that don't have that 1:1 mapping to a key pair. All that said, it's not me needs to be convinced, but the IESG, so probably best to wait and see if they think this is worth changing or not before doing so. 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Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:57:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (unknown [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B7A6EBE4D; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 15:57:50 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1555340270; bh=nqgIdWFnmb68BYGJBgLfGphBI/0LCMwTvDRv8sFdf5Q=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=BzU0w7yTTum38GTmEPDmGVIDfwR98PwR7GzWnyAR5eyopth7mYcpymY5md6XtWkpa CnwjvMERNANvk9nw0QPBdnQSxGadwmd3tEU/oI8yr3CMHdCnYVXxxKLePmGdfE3xng eW6WtNbMPUADjfsO15QVtdIwIJcpwlTEJ5vg8/L4= To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c4b8d89-c114-103e-9a6e-5a8ae6a59350@cs.tcd.ie> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; 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Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ThhBnFdYYoob1a6MzfcaqKyFuHZLQkcp3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 14:58:02 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ThhBnFdYYoob1a6MzfcaqKyFuHZLQkcp3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="qn4RbnWkMlcJSrR6buKomXVBe8ZuY2VqK"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 References: <155533088202.10777.9128855796755282458@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60294@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6c4b8d89-c114-103e-9a6e-5a8ae6a59350@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: --qn4RbnWkMlcJSrR6buKomXVBe8ZuY2VqK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F67211906672D983026AA7A1" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F67211906672D983026AA7A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15/04/2019 15:38, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- From: Dots On >> Behalf Of Stephen Farrell Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 6:56 PM To: >> mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; secdir@ietf.org Cc: >> draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; >> dots@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir telechat review of >> draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hiya, >>=20 >> On 15/04/2019 14:16, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >>>> - p13: The cuid still seems to me to be too static (there's a >>>=20 >>> [Med] This is a feature not a bug. This scheme is particularly >>> useful to recover state, for example, upon reboot or crash of a >>> DOTS client. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Well, fair enough, but FWIW I'm not convinced that a client that >> can keep state (the private key and other dots stuff) couldn't also >> as easily keep a cuid value. And ISTM there should also be equally >> good ways to recommend for generating a cuid that don't have that=20 >> 1:1 mapping to a key pair. All that said, it's not me needs to be >> convinced, but the IESG, so probably best to wait and see if they >> think this is worth changing or not before doing so. >=20 > The advantage of the 1:1 mapping is the DOTS servers can validate the > DOTS client is not using the 'cuid' of another client. So that'd be "an" advantage, if it is one;-) But given the servers are supposed to authenticate the client via TLS client-auth (or else the server doesn't see the public key), I don't see the need. Nor do I recall that the server is supposed to compare the key to the cuid - if that check is to be done, then that'd need to be in the spec or a client that re-keys would have to make a new cuid. (Apologies if that's in the spec and I've forgotten it.) Cheers, S. >=20 > -Tiru >=20 >>=20 >> S. >>=20 >=20 --------------F67211906672D983026AA7A1 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV B5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5 FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9t 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HyF4XMW2oJvZGvmfg8vkBLtvl4sZbVZlcI49Q77PG2g=; b=IiIl/XPdUkcEKdzhv4jWzTDe9VgrKvVxxb+AbMkCE5Kx83Setr797vQ743jI1p73rl 4D6hE0wPJUKkZoYuotZp2W2BpDJTL1voX69/DuE/dw/UVw/y2v5vQ543CS9vW+2/bU6a 2aRKUCVgP15/HAsjut68RDNBTlnlEdH36h7KLQvQXBdFK3+1XOLu3JOE9x2duwKK8cG5 EYcQ80GTZNXx8I94TCd0ZlxX4QBrKSh9Y88KVDdpj5BmnfWuzIqAlxSub2FPdGYeV/s4 Nhll/qq6piVMe2qEefoAFZf5ltzUs3f/qN2A7LA9xm8JQCNGK6eP33e5DpBCEuDwuvrv /sWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVH1Znaf6z9rUVbDDAY7chVefAJmCkSsLLSjX7GQw/zwxZSv7HK kyrQ8sGFci36YecOfR3w+h49c5lHiqrzn8jKm38= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxQDeE5uicAag08QlUmbVcaKCC+rHiF831qoW863eUh3jwfaFallAswkV7b4T9CBWqNDD+kfhY0KhzMP94wHvU= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:50d5:: with SMTP id h21mr7105704lfm.44.1555344258168; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 09:04:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Daniel Migault Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 12:04:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Panwei (William)" Cc: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000002fbcd058693ce74" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 16:04:26 -0000 --00000000000002fbcd058693ce74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I support the adoption of the draft, please see my comments on the current version. None of them should be considered as preventing the adoption. Yours, Daniel Some random comments: Section 1: """ Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris, and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network devices without adversely affecting its performance. The reason is typically home routers have fast path to boost the throughput. For every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first few packets are punted through the slow path. Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the target server after the flow is switched to fast path. Deep packet inspection (DPI) of all the packets of a flow would be able to detect some of the attacks. However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible for all the devices attached to the home network owing to the memory and CPU limitations of the home routers. Further, for certain DDoS attacks the ability to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker traffic on a per packet basis is complex. This complexity originates from the fact that the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no attack signature can be identified. The anomaly can be identified only after detailed statistical analysis. """ I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection at the ISP is easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we are going a bit further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS target. I believe that the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of the Homenet and the ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be generalized and actually help coordination between independent domains. I believe the draft can be placed in a larger perspective. Section 3.1 Procedure: I am not convinced this is the right approach to switch the roles between clients and servers. I believe that while the previous dots signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one way to see this could be to have a DOTS communication between different entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving side is the DOTS Responder. Here is a more concrete example while Client / Server might be confusing. When a server sends an alert when under attach it is designated as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresses are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server. It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending further notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may re-use that exact same channel. I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is able to handle the requests and be a "Server". I believe the clarification and comparison with the "traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for clarification purpose. However, one should make sure also that such signalling can also be made with a signal dots signalling established in the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the draft. On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) wrote: > Hi, > > I support adoption of this draft. > > Best Regards > Wei Pan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > adopted, please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > --00000000000002fbcd058693ce74 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support the adoption o= f the draft, please see my comments on the current version. None of them sh= ould be considered as preventing the adoption.=C2=A0

You= rs,=C2=A0
Daniel

Some random commen= ts:


Section 1:

=
"""
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some of the DDoS attacks lik= e spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS re-= negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0devices without adversely affecting its performance.=C2=A0 The reason= is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0typically home routers have fast path to boost t= he throughput.=C2=A0 For
=C2=A0 =C2=A0every new TCP/UDP flow, onl= y the first few packets are punted through
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the slow = path.=C2=A0 Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0target server after the flow is switched to fast pa= th.=C2=A0 Deep packet
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inspection (DPI) of all the pa= ckets of a flow would be able to detect
=C2=A0 =C2=A0some of the = attacks.=C2=A0 However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these
=C2=A0= =C2=A0type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for all the devices attached to the home network owin= g to the memory
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and CPU limitations of the home rout= ers.=C2=A0 Further, for certain DDoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacks the abi= lity to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0traffic on a per packet basis is complex.=C2=A0 This complexity originat= es
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from the fact that the packet itself may look &qu= ot;legitimate" and no
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack signature can be i= dentified.=C2=A0 The anomaly can be identified
=C2=A0 =C2=A0only = after detailed statistical analysis.
"""

I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection = at the ISP is
easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggrega= tes the traffic. This
is correct and I agree with the text. Howev= er, if we are going a bit
further, the detection is even easier t= o the DDoS target. I believe that
the same mechanism could be dep= loyed between a DDoS target, its Cloud
provider major ISPs up to = the origin. The example of the Homenet and the
ISP is only one bo= und but the mechanism can be generalized and actually
help coordi= nation between independent domains.=C2=A0 I believe the draft can
be placed in a larger perspective.


Section 3.1 Procedure:

I am not convinced this is= the right approach to switch the roles
between clients and serve= rs. I believe that while the previous dots
signal-channel was for= eseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now
considering DOTS C= lient and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one
way to see t= his could be to have a DOTS communication between different
entit= ies, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating
= the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving
side is the DOTS Responder.

Here is a more = concrete example while Client / Server=C2=A0 might be
confusing. = When=C2=A0 a server sends an alert when under attach it is designated
=
as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresse= s
are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server.

It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS= channel can be sent
by any other peer, not necessarily the peer = sending further
notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client m= ay have set the DOTS
channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Se= rver may re-use that exact
same channel.

I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or
announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is abl= e
to handle the requests and be a "Server".
<= br>

I believe the clarification and comparison wit= h the
"traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases = is useful and needs to stay for
clarification purpose. However, o= ne should make sure also that such
signalling can also be made wi= th a signal dots signalling established in
the initial use cases.= Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS
channel and set= a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the
draft.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM = Panwei (William) <william.p= anwei@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi,

I support adoption of this draft.

Best Regards
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM
To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@i= etf.org; kaduk@mit.e= du
Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04

Hi all,

the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-= network-04.

This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04.
The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd.

Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list be= fore this date.
If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why.

Regards,
Frank & Valery.


_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
--00000000000002fbcd058693ce74-- From nobody Mon Apr 15 11:05:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB621200D7; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fMFFrKhmlZjl; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C962120098; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id g12so8933681pll.11; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4LoURNqxMO22uPPkW+Bag98KVt47WoYHJJ+6eRTTsPs=; b=Ttcnn+uZfy31FePC4Wk7ZRRFvJCbszZDW6XfXo68/1S5kCmeAhTjnjIYFAPmY2QTR8 YPtewiQsRB1qssY4OPWVDlGNnon6WGbyQVo2G0H18wrRkrRfKs5+5f/ADhoouaNzUf8j lwrr4W77JsXp27DOJ9QGjgit+6PpwwCxdPcyZ250rM1y8kHRb/gIySS496yhrcwFyiMD BRqm/uo95lbmOefk75ccgbaaFG3r8pGK+4zombed3lSdyPAbz1SDxjzV112zjVCrbzAd 0H3ZuDXirxROA0Pthlt/JwTj1mf9vQzRzC5Tn/5PvK2BYMhDkOFMMVwXr7z+GQSJOChg XZQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4LoURNqxMO22uPPkW+Bag98KVt47WoYHJJ+6eRTTsPs=; b=VahcnNmW/cQvfqY6ls/sl7zYdONFb0H+U9JwFUtyZ/kgNHj5IePXGIk+mpPIk3+Jyd 2CEwQiHzOeY6v73Ofh1AlqGz6bQxa5v3ha1JzNs31xqNZ6YqRkvlf+v4Hp5LUi8wn8PY dQ0PnNv5p0Z+fWoaOGLNMbbLO8+IHisRP+yoNbO6h9vqnlnDtOWqTFqRWeJze8lTkI/k pRrWXVqtu6EOJwaRe3oFkso38rK/vsdNl0fNuz29ZIA2OvrEm7Y4OBEaWgGNm7hHpEv+ a9SgwMyzdeenJE9/t4tkaxUhITaxHwazdnJ/MPTq1JeR6J8hyxz7sHigPSJ+sgygDEHs FJng== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXBE26h7xVnH/lckyNqyvJIOKL9OpjBHxDmAgUPpWB6xaF2UF+a cY4BJIJ9avKHdYS8FsLJwwmtgYaA X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwZomfElPXPM+YRs6HnZm/AzLBbL4Ymnc7cq2KBVOYFPHo8EpFuzCz6p4HxKOGMeYIFGuCv3w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b089:: with SMTP id p9mr51550061plr.185.1555351495295; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjcldanwi.lan ([75.111.84.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q80sm97744438pfa.66.2019.04.15.11.04.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Dan Wing In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:52 -0700 Cc: dots@ietf.org, dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> To: Valery Smyslov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 18:04:59 -0000 I support adoption of this draft. Nit: I am nervous it is unnecessarily re-stating normative behavior in = its Section 3.2.1 -- normative behavior of acl-name and activation-type = which should only be located in draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. It's = difficult to tell if the subtle word differences are intended to change = behavior or simply restate the behavior described in = draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. I would just remove the text that mimics = draft-ietf-dots-data-channel and simply point off to = draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. -d > On Apr 8, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Valery Smyslov wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the = list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether = you're willing=20 > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 15 11:05:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2AE1203B0; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:05:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ui6KHuoi9ung; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D9FB120219; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id i2so8947205pgj.11; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:05:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tKiNjQKWrQKBTDuDKR1Wjcuai2B+o0IEnHvkxZ884mM=; b=DDMC5XpGUyFi9uzF5agj/X86afXMZ6DIXJ0RoTzK1em13rZVn/CPA58pbQ2d6ZmcoH 7Qkn4TRr752KkJ9hZNeJ9D8VpAV4E24dWP7Yw5q54WZ7P+YNnpucqq4Viar5Roorvyiw hR9TfOzOhDCHDgl2R4w2dDcrIvJwhgLZ6ocLjBQt0OgH249knnGGsxbhTpyT5Uzw4eto x6pIAkN8kUNGBOQjBI5/Pzp59nmBDKGd42vC9YU+FimMumuExEYIeDyulFG+j0PRV8zh G2CEuBPYCwASiSrzUGJg2ZDJLZvMvGz+8H6OMGx9ZR8f+Pz6KSoC8abCW+H6eok7nbMT 52uA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tKiNjQKWrQKBTDuDKR1Wjcuai2B+o0IEnHvkxZ884mM=; b=k9rM3Z2Sm0JHYdOKv46YqPLoNHtRGvIuLsE1umqnHTZ6Ql/dxCoEYEU/yVzQs1S+l6 Eu5xjx0Tc5oxX9zNoMgDedW4Fzl7kJqLR2bG6T22Yh1goGTpUulKu4KAMLJSB6XRabVd nW6T3dVcjc4ZK4tw9/blaQVLuLs7PNhYuRy+PING6VFoBzxQSajYC4gSDkZlqxTul9Bb Az38u2JBIkbmfilZ/WbV6TdyqohFsNa+UIXBYoVLuQvMt99AxFV1U+avgm1o32YLz/B6 aGuthfAnNZda/ZcoFnc/ysqMXXDfoSwmt0nkkoA85k4QmLB0Qk/cqrZqocG2AbVZ0CL3 xJ7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUpiuQ+kdwBtT5gPxyyQCPfcceaPKiUnEFafOD+QCHHdj4AeHZV CEuf0HtV+R50ZBSjTC7p1tzlnxi1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyUjqrYVQ+hI5FI8t8p8D4EXxEK6Z3n1CAESftnWJWWS52PoeDzYPlqD7ifASC3PLVFcUEolA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:209c:: with SMTP id m28mr75383176pfj.233.1555351500674; Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjcldanwi.lan ([75.111.84.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q80sm97744438pfa.66.2019.04.15.11.04.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Dan Wing In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:04:59 -0700 Cc: dots@ietf.org, dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <17134D64-F968-4B1C-A9B4-0D7239B57C41@gmail.com> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> To: Valery Smyslov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 18:05:07 -0000 I support adoption of draft-reddy-dots-home-network. -d > On Apr 8, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Valery Smyslov wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the = list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether = you're willing=20 > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 16 01:40:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007D312037D; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 01:40:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DILuFl6fqc70; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 01:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBABA120372; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 01:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.11]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44jzMd3J5Jz8tP0; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 10:40:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfedar00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44jzMd22RjzCqjh; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 10:40:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 10:40:13 +0200 From: To: Dan Wing , Valery Smyslov CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 Thread-Index: AQHU87XBX60o/DOehEK5zkTcgdNlzaY+dpLw Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 08:40:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60D56@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 08:40:17 -0000 Hi Dan,=20 Thank you for the comment.=20 Some of the text is provided as a reminder to ease the readability of the d= ocument, while some (new) text (e.g., "Note that both 'immediate' and 'acti= vate-when-mitigating' have an immediate effect when a mitigation request is= being processed by the DOTS server.") is specific to the signal channel.=20 A first attempt to tweak the text and avoid the potential confusion you rai= sed is available at:=20 https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/blob/master/wdiff%20draft-nishi= zuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt%20draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-con= trol-filtering-06.pdf=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Dan Wing > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 15 avril 2019 20:05 > =C0=A0: Valery Smyslov > Cc=A0: dots-chairs@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-contro= l- > filtering-06 >=20 > I support adoption of this draft. >=20 > Nit: I am nervous it is unnecessarily re-stating normative behavior in it= s > Section 3.2.1 -- normative behavior of acl-name and activation-type which > should only be located in draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. It's difficult t= o > tell if the subtle word differences are intended to change behavior or si= mply > restate the behavior described in draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. I would = just > remove the text that mimics draft-ietf-dots-data-channel and simply point= off > to draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. >=20 > -d >=20 >=20 > > On Apr 8, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Valery Smyslov wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-do= ts- > signal-control-filtering-06. > > > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots- > signal-control-filtering-06. > > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the lis= t > before this date. > > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e > willing > > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopte= d, > please explain why. > > > > Regards, > > Frank & Valery. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 16 09:22:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0782E12064C; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DsgxZRsBNs6P; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B52BD12063F; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id t16so10575165plo.0; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5g1vDyqkgAFx0jwQTaoPZfbokLelI5Ub8yULBSkIaTg=; b=VBNuqGV9GSBEK7lGOPbaQpRlnpI4/P6WXlzhHiQ3akjZKdrOFBLzCyv/ZqRnOq6Bvd pk39hEY+AmUaum/49uhUNP8q1ZnHNbh5onSyG0+Eh7rGkH1vVrUCIodsZ1MEMlDIvGWw BZBoZcJOwVx0qPdhOFyWVBzfZ3VQ85KV829+B/KPniTo8Hrm/EPsaC+jQo2D2+tAgSlh GHGYmza22cq3FMi3KKpkiiX20E6M/yWvMvoHy905rrPKHjew8HPCDML/LH8yGnwsOCtD yubpWEfdbs9LU13DbjID6k5W51f+duVm+bimyceNA1JI+7h3RWMlVOJ2K1G4KYki7XXB L8Xw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5g1vDyqkgAFx0jwQTaoPZfbokLelI5Ub8yULBSkIaTg=; b=eg8We0NI+vrKV9aALu9nhBtC/L0eYNKiHW4iKcdeAMnxb0fFhdqFOl3bVTXEzJafu+ QpVOeVexuhy/xIQf7DkdpBXS8OTnhWj6bb06w3kcPDkPshuyga3yN+Of7nID+Tl2PYcX iQMy2DBzmsMgku1KkVMZ1BseiztqjdF4wc0WtvRB/pZ2MzDSztkvFeRIcL/pip8YDi2O wl0NOoNLc0rn0rSlqSShAI6YfJb+9Ksic2mzAEjRDu7hm49G9wHDDSBehXUvdFQsLrsJ XHbptO0SmZm8fEEHcueOVtCmTMoVqx4HtWl93tQk2j9e0kVq7294s3+x7eZeJxFk6Wt1 7ysw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW9w0V3YjE8KC5EO9KjTOlzDglFeOxv2wucROynvlBrQ1cQvMlZ c8floNp4zlHKzBKFH2uz7PE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzVpre4fE9LdrIGYn6D0/z9ffo6I3b88jlK6ks37VR8rtISt6hyb3t2vVRCrFrt9lgDA4HUgQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:4681:: with SMTP id p1mr82508312pld.42.1555430896456; Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjcldanwi.lan ([75.111.84.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n21sm102320740pfb.42.2019.04.16.09.08.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Dan Wing In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60D56@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:08:14 -0700 Cc: Valery Smyslov , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1446492F-E573-48AA-9355-88647CF4FF5C@gmail.com> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA60D56@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: Mohamed Boucadair X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2019 16:22:57 -0000 Thanks. -d > On Apr 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, = wrote: >=20 > Hi Dan,=20 >=20 > Thank you for the comment.=20 >=20 > Some of the text is provided as a reminder to ease the readability of = the document, while some (new) text (e.g., "Note that both 'immediate' = and 'activate-when-mitigating' have an immediate effect when a = mitigation request is being processed by the DOTS server.") is specific = to the signal channel.=20 >=20 > A first attempt to tweak the text and avoid the potential confusion = you raised is available at:=20 >=20 > = https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/blob/master/wdiff%20draft-nish= izuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06.txt%20draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-c= ontrol-filtering-06.pdf=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Dan Wing >> Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 15 avril 2019 20:05 >> =C3=80 : Valery Smyslov >> Cc : dots-chairs@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu >> Objet : Re: [Dots] Adoption call for = draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control- >> filtering-06 >>=20 >> I support adoption of this draft. >>=20 >> Nit: I am nervous it is unnecessarily re-stating normative behavior = in its >> Section 3.2.1 -- normative behavior of acl-name and activation-type = which >> should only be located in draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. It's = difficult to >> tell if the subtle word differences are intended to change behavior = or simply >> restate the behavior described in draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. I = would just >> remove the text that mimics draft-ietf-dots-data-channel and simply = point off >> to draft-ietf-dots-data-channel. >>=20 >> -d >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Apr 8, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Valery Smyslov = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> the chairs recently received an adoption request for = draft-nishizuka-dots- >> signal-control-filtering-06. >>>=20 >>> This message starts a two-week adoption call for = draft-nishizuka-dots- >> signal-control-filtering-06. >>> The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >>>=20 >>> Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the = list >> before this date. >>> If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether = you're >> willing >>> to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, >> please explain why. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Frank & Valery. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Dots mailing list >>> Dots@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Dots mailing list >> Dots@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Apr 17 02:13:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7C3120145; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:13:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155549239918.29198.15670152345724257115@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:13:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:13:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Server Discovery Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Prashanth Patil Filename : draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2019-04-17 Abstract: It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are undertaken. This document specifies mechanisms to configure DOTS clients with DOTS servers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Apr 17 02:22:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7911200B9; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXGkPmJHydWj; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta2.chinamobile.com (cmccmta2.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC9D12003E; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app06-12006 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee65cb6f03683e-42ca2; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:21:58 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee65cb6f03683e-42ca2 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.51.20]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee25cb6f0351db-8d45b; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:21:58 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee25cb6f0351db-8d45b Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:22:15 +0800 From: "MeiLing Chen" To: "Valery Smyslov" , dots Cc: dots-chairs , kaduk References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <201904171721498933073@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart220682830307_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:22:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart220682830307_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQpJIGhhdmUgYSBxdWVzdGlvbiwgZG9lcyB0aGUgY2FsbCBob21lIGluIGRyYWZ0LXJlZGR5 LWRvdHMtaG9tZS1uZXR3b3JrLTA0IGNvbnNpc3RlbnQgd2l0aCB0aGUgImNhbGwgaG9tZSIgaW4g UkZDODA3MT8NCiANCg0KYmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NClJlc2VhcmNoIGluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBDaGluYSBtb2JpbGUgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMgY28u IExURA0KSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIHNhZmV0eSB0ZWNobm9sb2d5DQpFbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzOiBjaGVu bWVpbGluZ0BjaGluYW1vYmlsZS5jb20NClBob25lOiAxMzgxMDE0OTUxNQ0KVGVsZXBob25lOiAx NTgwMTY5NjY4OC0zNDI4Mw0KQWRkcmVzczogbm8uIDMyLCB4dWFud3VtZW4gd2VzdCBzdHJlZXQs IHhpY2hlbmcgZGlzdHJpY3QsIEJlaWppbmcgKG1vYmlsZSBpbm5vdmF0aW9uIGJ1aWxkaW5nKQ0K IA0KRnJvbTogVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3YNCkRhdGU6IDIwMTktMDQtMDggMjM6MjgNClRvOiBkb3Rz QGlldGYub3JnDQpDQzogZG90cy1jaGFpcnM7IGthZHVrDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbRG90c10gQWRvcHRp b24gY2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtcmVkZHktZG90cy1ob21lLW5ldHdvcmstMDQNCkhpIGFsbCwNCiAN CnRoZSBjaGFpcnMgcmVjZW50bHkgcmVjZWl2ZWQgYW4gYWRvcHRpb24gcmVxdWVzdCBmb3IgZHJh ZnQtcmVkZHktZG90cy1ob21lLW5ldHdvcmstMDQuDQogDQpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ugc3RhcnRzIGEg dHdvLXdlZWsgYWRvcHRpb24gY2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtcmVkZHktZG90cy1ob21lLW5ldHdvcmst MDQuDQpUaGUgY2FsbCBlbmRzIHVwIG9uIFR1ZXNkYXksIEFwcmlsIHRoZSAyM3JkLg0KIA0KUGxl YXNlIHNlbmQgeW91ciBvcGluaW9uIHJlZ2FyZGluZyBhZG9wdGlvbiBvZiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50 IHRvIHRoZSBsaXN0IGJlZm9yZSB0aGlzIGRhdGUuDQpJZiB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHNo b3VsZCBiZSBhZG9wdGVkLCBwbGVhc2UgaW5kaWNhdGUgd2hldGhlciB5b3UncmUgd2lsbGluZyAN CnRvIHJldmlldyBpdC90byB3b3JrIG9uIGl0LiBJZiB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHNob3Vs ZCBub3QgYmUgYWRvcHRlZCwgcGxlYXNlIGV4cGxhaW4gd2h5Lg0KIA0KUmVnYXJkcywNCkZyYW5r ICYgVmFsZXJ5Lg0KIA0KIA0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCkRvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCiANCg== ------=_001_NextPart220682830307_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
Hi,
I have a question, does the call home = in draft-reddy-dots-home-network-0= 4 consistent w= ith the "call home" in RFC8071?
=0A
 

<= /div>

best regards.

------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------

Research ins= titute of China mobile communications co. LTD

= Institute of safet= y technology

Email address: chenmeiling@chinamobile.com

Phone: 13810149515

Telephone: 15801696688-34283

Addre= ss: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, xicheng district, Beijing (mobile innov= ation building)

=0A
=0A<= blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5e= m">
 
Date:&= nbsp;2019-04-08 23:28
Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-redd= y-dots-home-network-04
Hi all,
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&nb= sp;
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the chairs recently received an adoption request for draf= t-reddy-dots-home-network-04.
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This messag= e starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04.=0A
The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd.
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 = ;
=0A
Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this documen= t to the list before this date.
=0A
If you think the draft should= be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing
=0A
to revie= w it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please e= xplain why.
=0A
 
=0A
Regards,
=0A
Frank &= amp; Valery.
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=0A
________= _______________________________________
=0A
Dots mailing list=0A
Dots@ietf.org
=0A
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo= /dots
=0A
 
=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart220682830307_=------ From nobody Wed Apr 17 02:22:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CF5120455 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RxA-hGzDIg0m for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8D5B1200B9 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44kcFS0mgbzyWS for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:22:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.79]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44kcFR5wnlzFpWM for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:22:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM6E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d89a:9017:59c2:9724%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:22:03 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHU9P3RXkxAe4XRukO4hEYOkujufKZAEemQ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:22:03 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA61A2B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155549239918.29198.15670152345724257115@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155549239918.29198.15670152345724257115@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:22:14 -0000 Hi all, This new version implements the changes that were presented in Prague (http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dots-dots-server-= discovery-ietf104-00):=20 * Shorten the list of discovery options: Remove anycast and mDNS. * Call out triggers to execute the discovery procedure. * Add a pointer to ZSTP as suggested by Kent. =20 As a next step, a request will be sent to the dhc WG to review the DHCP par= t of the specification.=20 Comments are more than welcome.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 17 avril 2019 11:13 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IET= F. >=20 > Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signa= ling > (DOTS) Server Discovery > Authors : Mohamed Boucadair > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Prashanth Patil > Filename : draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2019-04-17 >=20 > Abstract: > It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an > attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under > attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is > under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are > undertaken. >=20 > This document specifies mechanisms to configure DOTS clients with > DOTS servers. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Apr 17 02:44:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026C412025B; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9d1wGyC6mSdE; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951BF120148; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 02:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44kcl503hTzCrdH; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:44:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.89]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44kcl46KbCzDq7F; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:44:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:44:16 +0200 From: To: MeiLing Chen , Valery Smyslov , dots CC: dots-chairs , kaduk Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AQHU9P8Kg/ztZp4N9Ey5JkQsHrZyn6ZAFelw Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:44:16 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA61A7A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <201904171721498933073@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: <201904171721498933073@chinamobile.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA61A7AOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Apr 17 17:48:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374B3120033; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qrJZLa8oi85G; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECFC1201A2; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 24B2825F68C; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:48:49 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1555548529; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=AIWR8ftY73skIA3E65O4MfG0s7RZxzIngocXW54OUjI=; b=sBEGtJo99CldOWAC42AUcSz1RRPWfUOmU76rBvrfZXAdAqRBnplf7v76ADoCRgIt8ZbpUY Zvsgi822fU7sYqUqcOow6PIbduJwJaRTamt+7HP1Ihu7SZtLm3lqQI1B+sZUvQsJvJw3jo cImVPTtCPUDOuFyGt/rgE8qf55wKhlw= Received: from [IPv6:::1] (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id B1D22759011; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:48:48 +0900 (JST) To: Valery Smyslov Cc: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <98e68f54-432e-5edb-3358-d4c550edf72d@nttv6.jp> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:48:48 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8ADB9A9317699F12309A52FD" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 00:48:54 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8ADB9A9317699F12309A52FD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I support adoption of this draft. And +1 to this Daniel's comment. > the mechanism can be generalized and actually > help coordination between independent domains.  I believe the draft can > be placed in a larger perspective. thanks, Kaname Nishizuka On 2019/04/16 1:04, Daniel Migault wrote: > I support the adoption of the draft, please see my comments on the current version. None of them should be considered as preventing the adoption. > > Yours, > Daniel > > Some random comments: > > > Section 1: > > """ >    Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris, >    and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network >    devices without adversely affecting its performance.  The reason is >    typically home routers have fast path to boost the throughput.  For >    every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first few packets are punted through >    the slow path.  Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS >    attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the >    target server after the flow is switched to fast path.  Deep packet >    inspection (DPI) of all the packets of a flow would be able to detect >    some of the attacks.  However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these >    type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible >    for all the devices attached to the home network owing to the memory >    and CPU limitations of the home routers.  Further, for certain DDoS >    attacks the ability to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker >    traffic on a per packet basis is complex.  This complexity originates >    from the fact that the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no >    attack signature can be identified.  The anomaly can be identified >    only after detailed statistical analysis. > """ > > I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection at the ISP is > easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This > is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we are going a bit > further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS target. I believe that > the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud > provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of the Homenet and the > ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be generalized and actually > help coordination between independent domains.  I believe the draft can > be placed in a larger perspective. > > > Section 3.1 Procedure: > > I am not convinced this is the right approach to switch the roles > between clients and servers. I believe that while the previous dots > signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now > considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one > way to see this could be to have a DOTS communication between different > entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating > the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving > side is the DOTS Responder. > > Here is a more concrete example while Client / Server  might be > confusing. When  a server sends an alert when under attach it is designated > as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresses > are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server. > > It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent > by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending further > notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS > channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may re-use that exact > same channel. > > I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or > announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is able > to handle the requests and be a "Server". > > > I believe the clarification and comparison with the > "traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for > clarification purpose. However, one should make sure also that such > signalling can also be made with a signal dots signalling established in > the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS > channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the > draft. > > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) > wrote: > > Hi, > > I support adoption of this draft. > > Best Regards > Wei Pan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org ] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org ; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --------------8ADB9A9317699F12309A52FD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I support adoption of this draft.
And +1 to this Daniel's comment.

> the mechanism can be generalized and actually
> help coordination between independent domains.  I believe the draft can
> be placed in a larger perspective.

thanks,
Kaname Nishizuka

On 2019/04/16 1:04, Daniel Migault wrote:
I support the adoption of the draft, please see my comments on the current version. None of them should be considered as preventing the adoption. 

Yours, 
Daniel

Some random comments:


Section 1:

"""
   Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris,
   and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network
   devices without adversely affecting its performance.  The reason is
   typically home routers have fast path to boost the throughput.  For
   every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first few packets are punted through
   the slow path.  Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS
   attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the
   target server after the flow is switched to fast path.  Deep packet
   inspection (DPI) of all the packets of a flow would be able to detect
   some of the attacks.  However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these
   type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible
   for all the devices attached to the home network owing to the memory
   and CPU limitations of the home routers.  Further, for certain DDoS
   attacks the ability to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker
   traffic on a per packet basis is complex.  This complexity originates
   from the fact that the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no
   attack signature can be identified.  The anomaly can be identified
   only after detailed statistical analysis.
"""

I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection at the ISP is
easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This
is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we are going a bit
further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS target. I believe that
the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud
provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of the Homenet and the
ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be generalized and actually
help coordination between independent domains.  I believe the draft can
be placed in a larger perspective.


Section 3.1 Procedure:

I am not convinced this is the right approach to switch the roles
between clients and servers. I believe that while the previous dots
signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now
considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one
way to see this could be to have a DOTS communication between different
entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating
the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving
side is the DOTS Responder.

Here is a more concrete example while Client / Server  might be
confusing. When  a server sends an alert when under attach it is designated
as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresses
are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server.

It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent
by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending further
notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS
channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may re-use that exact
same channel.

I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or
announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is able
to handle the requests and be a "Server".


I believe the clarification and comparison with the
"traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for
clarification purpose. However, one should make sure also that such
signalling can also be made with a signal dots signalling established in
the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS
channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the
draft.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) <william.panwei@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi,

I support adoption of this draft.

Best Regards
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM
To: dots@ietf.org
Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04

Hi all,

the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04.

This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04.
The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd.

Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date.
If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why.

Regards,
Frank & Valery.


_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

--------------8ADB9A9317699F12309A52FD-- From nobody Wed Apr 17 17:56:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD3112004F; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:56:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mM11GUPTAIde; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp (dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp [202.19.227.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21623120033; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:56:54 -0700 (PDT) X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound X-dD-Source: Outbound Received: from zssg-mailmd101.ddreams.local (zssg-mailmd900.ddreams.local [10.160.172.63]) by zssg-mailou101.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0444D1200DC; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (zssg-mailmf900.ddreams.local [10.160.172.84]) by zssg-mailmd101.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTP id <0PQ400EK3TATZXD0@dDREAMS>; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B197E603D; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id D359B8E6050; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with SMTP id D1F838E6058; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) X-IMSS-HAND-OFF-DIRECTIVE: localhost:10026 Received: from zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953858E6050; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailua102.ddreams.local (unknown [10.160.172.62]) by zssg-mailmf102.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from RDSVVDI0520 (unknown [10.171.65.192]) by zssg-mailua102.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTPA id <0PQ400BLYTAH4K60@dDREAMS>; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:48 +0900 (JST) From: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCTlMhIU01Sj8bKEI=?= References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-reply-to: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 09:56:41 +0900 Message-id: <003401d4f581$960c6cd0$c2254670$@hco.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-index: AQFofcDll063hnoOZ5xJUu1PCD2lGacaBzVQ Content-language: ja To: 'Valery Smyslov' , dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 00:56:57 -0000 Hi all, I support adoption of this draft. Thanks, Yuhei > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2019 12:29 AM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 18 05:53:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E21120316; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 05:53:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HxLKLv-t8Ky0; 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RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600141)(711020)(4605104)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR16MB2758; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR16MB2758: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-forefront-prvs: 0011612A55 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(366004)(376002)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(346002)(32952001)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(53754006)(55016002)(11346002)(71200400001)(486006)(71190400001)(6246003)(9686003)(6306002)(53936002)(66066001)(6116002)(33656002)(6436002)(3846002)(7736002)(81156014)(81166006)(80792005)(305945005)(97736004)(8676002)(229853002)(52536014)(8936002)(5660300002)(2501003)(478600001)(14444005)(256004)(72206003)(966005)(74316002)(102836004)(4326008)(2906002)(25786009)(76176011)(86362001)(110136005)(99286004)(476003)(7696005)(316002)(446003)(14454004)(6506007)(186003)(68736007)(26005)(53546011)(54906003)(85282002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR16MB2758; H:BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: McAfee.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: zmfQYcuidfgGsISgNitGu1BfZfq8FWTYOZaCSvBXgdxuyexvFJvVpQhQOOFOMPjVxdRwvS2uoHdWJhwqm4gbAWJaQUUXjB78UkDxODXMFgavRxzVCq0GBfb02YciT81QpsPBVjTeWyctP1yQprMszdYERYdO6OCWP1+PtUcygMZ0DKbkwiL2m3LSFJxOa0sNVgiL00U03E/UiKZ2N8GDixJpYK+zC0pACk+qsisn1CZ3K5UEupX/MoXc1Ch6cWjq3X77E6U5RXNmsS/A0EOP47XwhV85K0EMm8/M6ZL2KNtnp7xedTef7wv9kZn5Va0CeZ4Er11OJVP4V0xhWFrRpGS5nHgpUjbY5HtU5bbzaaRR17+FvOqZo+HIi/upPGmogUrytP3lreTyC34OrRk0eMnrFvYpQ00Ijhm9fcMtiCM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 76bff21e-9eb3-4f58-dcbd-08d6c3fde3fa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Apr 2019 13:00:53.5902 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR16MB2758 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6528> : inlines <7057> : streams <1819018> : uri <2834127> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 13:01:43 -0000 I support the adoption of this draft (especially with the continuous increa= se in internal attacks). Cheers, -Tiru > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 8:59 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-fil= tering- > 06 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots= - > signal-control-filtering-06. >=20 > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-sig= nal- > control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. >=20 > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, > please explain why. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 18 06:13:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB4212031E; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CFCCxi3FKi8U; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A936612031D; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 06:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44lKKQ053Jz4wpl; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:12:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44lKKP6mVSzDq7m; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:12:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::90fe:7dc1:fb15:a02b%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 15:12:57 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Daniel Migault" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAFGr25wABsxq4AAi6JHcAAE2iQQ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 13:12:56 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAFGr25wABsxq4AAi6JHcAAE2iQQAAHe34A= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 13:59:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; x-originating-ip: [49.37.205.191] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8ccebc85-24c4-49e5-9b49-08d6c4060757 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L815UQXPcW6N; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 07:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5A7C12034D; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 07:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44lM620Y3Qz8tWJ; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 16:33:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.45]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44lM615LRZzBrLl; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 16:33:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 18 Apr 2019 16:33:13 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Daniel Migault" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAFGr25wABsxq4AAi6JHcAAE2iQQAAHe34AAAJITIA== Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 14:33:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62A43@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62A43OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 14:33:27 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62A43OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCkRlIDogS29uZGEs IFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeSBbbWFpbHRvOlRpcnVtYWxlc3dhclJlZGR5X0tvbmRhQE1jQWZl ZS5jb21dDQpFbnZvecOpIDogamV1ZGkgMTggYXZyaWwgMjAxOSAxNTo1OQ0Kw4AgOiBCT1VDQURB SVIgTW9oYW1lZCBUR0kvT0xOOyBEYW5pZWwgTWlnYXVsdA0KQ2MgOiBkb3RzLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRm Lm9yZzsgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3Y7IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGthZHVrQG1pdC5lZHUNCk9iamV0 IDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBBZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsIGZvciBkcmFmdC1yZWRkeS1kb3RzLWhvbWUtbmV0 d29yay0wNA0KDQpGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tIDxtb2hhbWVkLmJv dWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tPg0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEFwcmlsIDE4LCAyMDE5IDY6NDMg UE0NClRvOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5IDxUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25k 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-1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SINa-M1VSVj1; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62AC3120154; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [185.48.36.5] (port=59695 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJA2R-0006n3-Oz; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 01:01:44 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: , References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:01:40 +0300 Message-ID: <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3aU+XFBg Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:01:48 -0000 Hi, we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the document. So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG draft. A couple of comments. 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This combination is not among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not listed neither in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC requirement language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST NOT, SHALL NOT, SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. 2. When describing transport, the draft allows both TLS and DTLS. What makes me confusing is that the draft describes it several times as "TCP/TLS or DTLS". Why TCP is ever mentioned here? We all know that TLS usually runs over TCP (however we now have QUICK) and DTLS runs over UDP. The way it is presented in the draft makes me think that probably plain TCP is also allowed as a transport, but is seems to contradict everything I read about DOTS. Am I missing something here? Regards, Valery. > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home- > network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home- > network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please > explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. From nobody Tue Apr 23 22:04:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC671202FD; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:04:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wlsAWHj6qlL0; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87ABA120154; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [185.48.36.5] (port=58515 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJA4p-0007Qh-CA; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 01:04:11 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: , References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:04:08 +0300 Message-ID: <019101d4fa5b$2702cd50$750867f0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFofcDll063hnoOZ5xJUu1PCD2lGacjui6g Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:04:15 -0000 Hi, we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the document. So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG draft. One comment. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This combination is not among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not listed neither in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC requirement language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST NOT, SHALL NOT, SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. Regards, Valery. > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-dots- > signal-control-filtering-06. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > control-filtering-06. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're willing > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopted, please > explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. From nobody Tue Apr 23 22:20:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F241120150; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:20:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtipE6VkYaca; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62EF5120021; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44ppYj2tQsz5vvc; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:20:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.92]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44ppYj1tsxzDq78; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:20:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::7873:1668:636f:52c%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:20:40 +0200 From: To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 Thread-Index: AQFofcDll063hnoOZ5xJUu1PCD2lGacjui6ggAAEW3A= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:20:40 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6487C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> <019101d4fa5b$2702cd50$750867f0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <019101d4fa5b$2702cd50$750867f0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:20:46 -0000 Hi Valery,=20 Will do. Thanks.=20 I fail to see where "MAY NOT" is used in the draft.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery Smyslov > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:04 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-contro= l- > filtering-06 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the document. > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG draft. >=20 > One comment. > The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This combination is not > among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not listed neither > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC requirement > language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST NOT, SHALL NOT, > SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. >=20 > Regards, > Valery. >=20 > > Hi all, > > > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-nishizuka-do= ts- > > signal-control-filtering-06. > > > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for > draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > > control-filtering-06. > > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the lis= t > > before this date. > > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e > willing > > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopte= d, > please > > explain why. > > > > Regards, > > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 23 22:34:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3251202EB; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:34:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155608405844.32461.10188263374087772401@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:34:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:34:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Authors : Kaname Nishizuka Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Takahiko Nagata Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2019-04-23 Abstract: This document specifies an extension to the DOTS signal channel so that DOTS clients can control their filtering rules when an attack mitigation is active. Particularly, this extension allows a DOTS client to activate or de- activate existing filtering rules during a DDoS attack. The characterization of these filtering rules is supposed to be conveyed by a DOTS client during an idle time by means of the DOTS data channel protocol. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements within the document with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" o "RFC XXXX: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial- of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel"; o reference: RFC XXXX o [RFCXXXX] Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned to the following documents: o "RFC SSSS: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification" (used to be [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]) o "RFC DDDD: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification" (used to be [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 23 22:40:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00161200CD; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:40:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MD-lUT7-LN0f; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D5CB12002E; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [185.48.36.5] (port=61205 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJAdu-00076Z-Vg; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 01:40:27 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: , Cc: , References: <023e01d4ee1f$c3892950$4a9b7bf0$@smyslov.net> <019101d4fa5b$2702cd50$750867f0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6487C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6487C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:40:23 +0300 Message-ID: <019201d4fa60$38096050$a81c20f0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFofcDll063hnoOZ5xJUu1PCD2lGQIVZhnTAlvcHUunADl0EA== Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-06 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:40:31 -0000 Hi Med, > Hi Valery, >=20 > Will do. Thanks. >=20 > I fail to see where "MAY NOT" is used in the draft. You are right, it is used uppercase only in home-network draft. I read both the drafts a while ago and probably mixed up=20 the references when checking this. Thank you, Valery. > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery = Smyslov > > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:04 =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org = Cc=A0: > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption = call > > for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control- > > filtering-06 > > > > Hi, > > > > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the document. > > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG = draft. > > > > One comment. > > The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This combination is = not > > among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not listed neither > > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC = requirement > > language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST NOT, SHALL > > NOT, SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. > > > > Regards, > > Valery. > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for > > > draft-nishizuka-dots- signal-control-filtering-06. > > > > > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for > > draft-nishizuka-dots-signal- > > > control-filtering-06. > > > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > > > > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to = the > > > list before this date. > > > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether > > > you're > > willing > > > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > > > adopted, > > please > > > explain why. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Frank & Valery. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 23 22:56:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFD212004F; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:56:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h8NpGSvhJBDB; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF15512002E; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44pqLR57s8z1yTb; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:55:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44pqLR4P3zzDq7x; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:55:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::849f:f804:b713:d99a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:55:59 +0200 From: To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3aU+XFBggAAQHOA= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:55:58 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 05:56:04 -0000 Re-, Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery Smyslov > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:02 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the document. > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG draft. >=20 > A couple of comments. > 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This combination is not > among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not listed neither > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC requiremen= t > language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST NOT, SHALL > NOT, > SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. >=20 [Med] Good catch. Fixed.=20 > 2. When describing transport, the draft allows both TLS and DTLS. What > makes me confusing is that the draft describes it several times as > "TCP/TLS or DTLS". > Why TCP is ever mentioned here? We all know that TLS usually runs ov= er > TCP (however we now have QUICK) and DTLS runs over UDP. > The way it is presented in the draft makes me think that probably > plain TCP is also allowed as a transport, but is seems to contradict > everything I read about DOTS. Am I missing something here? >=20 [Med] Plain TCP is not allowed. The intent was to be explicit that there is= a reversal in both TCP and TLS layers, but as you rightfully raised this m= ay be confusing since, for the DOTS case, it is trivial that the reversal o= f TLS roles implies the reversal of TCP ones. The use of TCP/TLS is OK but = may be confusing. I changed TCP/TLS to TLS. =20 > Regards, > Valery. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > Hi all, > > > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for > draft-reddy-dots-home- > > network-04. > > > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home- > > network-04. > > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the lis= t > > before this date. > > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e > willing > > to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be adopte= d, > please > > explain why. > > > > Regards, > > Frank & Valery. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 23 23:01:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879C31201F1; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:01:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155608567852.32525.5808548335188987091@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:01:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:01:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Call Home Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy Mohamed Boucadair Jon Shallow Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-00.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2019-04-23 Abstract: This document presents DOTS signal channel Call Home service, which enables a DOTS server to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS client, and to receive the attack traffic information from the DOTS client. The DOTS server in turn uses the attack traffic information to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDoS attack and takes appropriate mitigation action. The Call Home service is not specific to the home networks; the solution targets any deployment which requires to block DDoS attack traffic closer to the source(s) of a DDoS attack. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Apr 23 23:13:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6AF120203; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id erv-xaddQyRX; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (dnvwsmailout1.mcafee.com [161.69.31.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9005D120150; 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Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:12:44 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2533.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.177.225.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1813.16; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:12:40 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1813.017; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:12:40 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8A== Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:12:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBEb3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K PiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v ZG90cw0K From nobody Tue Apr 23 23:24:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45F6120150 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:24:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvU5u9cPuIeI for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7694A12013C for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44pqzS3N3QzFprL for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.26]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44pqzS2gpZzCqkS for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:24:36 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6Q== Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:24:35 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:24:41 -0000 Hi all,=20 We do have one pending issue to be resolved for this draft. The issue is av= ailable at:=20 https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/issues/1=20 We need your feedback on this.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:34 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IET= F. >=20 > Title : Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed > Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel > Authors : Kaname Nishizuka > Mohamed Boucadair > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Takahiko Nagata > Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt > Pages : 23 > Date : 2019-04-23 >=20 > Abstract: > This document specifies an extension to the DOTS signal channel so > that DOTS clients can control their filtering rules when an attack > mitigation is active. >=20 > Particularly, this extension allows a DOTS client to activate or de- > activate existing filtering rules during a DDoS attack. The > characterization of these filtering rules is supposed to be conveyed > by a DOTS client during an idle time by means of the DOTS data > channel protocol. >=20 > Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) >=20 > Please update these statements within the document with the RFC > number to be assigned to this document: >=20 > o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" >=20 > o "RFC XXXX: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial- > of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel"; >=20 > o reference: RFC XXXX >=20 > o [RFCXXXX] >=20 > Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned to > the following documents: >=20 > o "RFC SSSS: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling > (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification" (used to be > [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]) >=20 > o "RFC DDDD: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling > (DOTS) Data Channel Specification" (used to be > [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) >=20 > Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-contr= ol- > 00 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 23 23:47:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D2D12030D; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:47:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wbg_FGwY1JCo; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62D4C1201F1; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44prTz4NxFz105m; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:47:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44prTz3kqrzDq7W; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:47:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::849f:f804:b713:d99a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 08:47:35 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:47:34 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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ZWQgZWFybGllciwgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBUQ1AvVExTIGlzIE9LIGJ1dCBpdCBtYXkgYmUgY29uZnVz aW5nIGFzIGluaXRpYWxseSByYWlzZWQgYnkgVmFsZXJ5LiANCg== From nobody Wed Apr 24 04:01:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FAD12008B; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 04:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZNwglMAcx5VM; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 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15.20.1813.017; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:01:01 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQAAj4x4A= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) 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X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6531> : inlines <7059> : streams <1819583> : uri <2836470> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::393d:418c:3f1d:991d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:18:24 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQAAj4x4AAAJCXsA== Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:18:23 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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dGUgbWVhbnMgbm8gcm9sZSByZXZlcnNhbCBhdCB0aGUgVENQIGxheWVyICENCg0KLVRpcnUNCg0K PiANCj4gIFRoZQ0KPiA+IHNlY3VyaXR5IGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIHNlY3Rpb24gc2F5cyAiIERP VFMgYWdlbnRzIE1VU1QgYXV0aGVudGljYXRlDQo+ID4gZWFjaCBvdGhlciB1c2luZyAoRClUTFMg YmVmb3JlIGEgRE9UUyBzaWduYWwgY2hhbm5lbCBzZXNzaW9uIGlzDQo+ID4gY29uc2lkZXJlZCB2 YWxpZC4iLCBzbyBjbGVhciB0ZXh0IERPVFMgdHJhZmZpYyBpcyBydWxlZCBvdXQuDQo+IA0KPiBb TWVkXSBGdWxseSBhZ3JlZS4NCg0K From nobody Wed Apr 24 06:11:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF6012009A; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qFt9zrQUknNI; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18917120019; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44q11D3Yzrz4wsQ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:11:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.101]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44q11D2mQszDq86; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:11:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM6F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c489:b768:686a:545b%23]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:11:44 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQAAj4x4AAAJCXsAADitfgAAByLdA= Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:11:43 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64E53@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0002A12008C for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:13:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vh-X8Oabd-mj for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4C09120075 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qRhF6zvLz20Ph; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:13:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.35]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qRhF6L9HzyPk; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:13:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM6C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f58e:8e9d:ae18:b9e3%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:13:33 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQAAj4x4AAAJCXsAADitfgAAByLdAAAFuUIAAjllPA Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 06:13:32 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656B7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64E53@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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dCBpcywgdGhlIERPVFMgc2VydmVyIGFjdHMNCj4gICAgIGFzIGEgRFRMUyBjbGllbnQgYW5kIHRo ZSBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBhY3RzIGFzIGEgRFRMUyBzZXJ2ZXIgb3IgdGhlDQo+ICAgIERPVFMgc2Vy dmVyIGFjdHMgYXMgYSBUTFMgY2xpZW50IGluaXRpYXRpbmcgdGhlIHVuZGVybHlpbmcgVENQIGNv bm5lY3Rpb24NCj4gYW5kIHRoZSBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBhY3RzIGFzIGEgVExTDQo+ICAgIHNlcnZl ci4gIFRoZSBET1RTIHNlcnZlciBpbml0aWF0ZXMgVExTIGhhbmRzaGFrZSBvciBEVExTIGhhbmRz aGFrZSB0bw0KPiAgICB0aGUgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQuDQo+IA0KPiAtVGlydQ0K From nobody Wed Apr 24 23:58:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88CC120136 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:58:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sHfFK-SmPPn9 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11D6A1200EA for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qShJ0sJbz308h; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:58:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.45]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qShJ051qz3wbb; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:58:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:58:39 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Daniel Migault" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAFGr25wABsxq4AAi6JHcAAE2iQQAAHe34AAAJITIAFQh6kA Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 06:58:39 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656D3@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62A43@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62A43@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656D3OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPGJyPg0KRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8YnI+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJt YWlsdG86RG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPkRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJy Pg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzIiB0 YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3Rz PC9hPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656D3OPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Thu Apr 25 01:59:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB431200E5 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 01:59:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Ff3ux380fBt for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 01:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FBC12006F for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 01:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 1D39E25F6BF; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:59:32 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1556182772; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=D+RUJSn5yjyLGHsr7jipGTdB7l5PcbPGC4d1tzou32g=; b=Ut3R8sKOnKJ+ruaRTWKdYOBLS6j6T3+v+9Iq/8C7yA+YelJKMJ+1Ix6wkHQilvcSMnlLZl tifKivLw6G5eUE72ZuFIMt4KK5hiNgX/e9e7rm05XNvKP89hpUGonwALxFjzHvHxyVdvF1 c43XmypZOSHbvpAzZI8+sadu9uYSBIQ= Received: from macbook-pro-17.lv4.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 0E4EA759005; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:59:32 +0900 (JST) To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "dots@ietf.org" References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:11 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 08:59:38 -0000 Hi Med, all, Regarding with the issue, I'm not convinced of the benefit to return the activated ACL statistics over signal-channel. The idea of this draft is based on this situation (quoted from Jon's comment): (It is) very unreliable when the inbound pipe is running full.  If the pipe is not running full, then this information can be obtained over the data channel. ACL stats can be get over the data-channel. I don't see any reason to reproduce the same function. Further more, I don't think the DOTS server should notify that DOTS client with the change by including the corresponding acl-* parameters in an asynchronous notification. The basic behavior is already written in the draft:    This specification does not require any modification to the efficacy    update and the withdrawal procedures defined in    [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel].  In particular, ACL-related clauses    are not included in a PUT request used to send an efficacy update and    DELETE requests. If so, the server need not to store any resource about acl-* per mitigation request, which make the function of the signal-filter-control simple enough. thanks, Kaname On 2019/04/24 15:24, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi all, > > We do have one pending issue to be resolved for this draft. The issue is available at: > https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/issues/1 > > We need your feedback on this. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- >> drafts@ietf.org >> Envoyé : mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:34 >> À : i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc : dots@ietf.org >> Objet : [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed >> Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel >> Authors : Kaname Nishizuka >> Mohamed Boucadair >> Tirumaleswar Reddy >> Takahiko Nagata >> Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt >> Pages : 23 >> Date : 2019-04-23 >> >> Abstract: >> This document specifies an extension to the DOTS signal channel so >> that DOTS clients can control their filtering rules when an attack >> mitigation is active. >> >> Particularly, this extension allows a DOTS client to activate or de- >> activate existing filtering rules during a DDoS attack. The >> characterization of these filtering rules is supposed to be conveyed >> by a DOTS client during an idle time by means of the DOTS data >> channel protocol. >> >> Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) >> >> Please update these statements within the document with the RFC >> number to be assigned to this document: >> >> o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" >> >> o "RFC XXXX: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial- >> of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel"; >> >> o reference: RFC XXXX >> >> o [RFCXXXX] >> >> Please update these statements with the RFC number to be assigned to >> the following documents: >> >> o "RFC SSSS: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling >> (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification" (used to be >> [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]) >> >> o "RFC DDDD: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling >> (DOTS) Data Channel Specification" (used to be >> [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) >> >> Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control- >> 00 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dots mailing list >> Dots@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 25 02:28:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C59A12007A for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 02:28:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.099 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cpiwDePrSXeF for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 02:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB9F812006D for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 02:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJafp-0000Gr-O4; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:28:09 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'kaname nishizuka'" , , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:28:07 +0100 Message-ID: <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJQEGP+1iseERi2OTPcLXp1W/83ywIpkhMbpUUkcMA= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:28:17 -0000 Hi there, The advantage of separating out the counters for the different ACLs is = that the DOTS client can then determine what is being effective or not. = However, if (signal) data is able to get from the DOTS server to the = DOTS client, then it is likely that the data channel will still be = operable and can be used to get these numbers so I still do not think = that this should be over the signal channel. I think that that the GET response (or observe response) bytes-dropped = etc. should be the total dropped - i.e. the sum of the ACls and what the = DMS is otherwise doing as it refers to the mitigation request. Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of kaname > nishizuka > Sent: 25 April 2019 10:00 > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats = issue >=20 > Hi Med, all, >=20 > Regarding with the issue, I'm not convinced of the benefit to return = the > activated ACL statistics over signal-channel. >=20 > The idea of this draft is based on this situation (quoted from Jon's > comment): > (It is) very unreliable when the inbound pipe is running full. If the = pipe is not > running full, then this information can be obtained over the data = channel. >=20 > ACL stats can be get over the data-channel. I don't see any reason to > reproduce the same function. >=20 > Further more, I don't think the DOTS server should notify that DOTS = client > with the change by including the corresponding acl-* parameters in an > asynchronous notification. > The basic behavior is already written in the draft: > This specification does not require any modification to the = efficacy > update and the withdrawal procedures defined in > [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]. In particular, ACL-related = clauses > are not included in a PUT request used to send an efficacy update = and > DELETE requests. >=20 > If so, the server need not to store any resource about acl-* per = mitigation > request, which make the function of the signal-filter-control simple = enough. >=20 > thanks, > Kaname >=20 > On 2019/04/24 15:24, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > We do have one pending issue to be resolved for this draft. The = issue is > available at: > > https://github.com/boucadair/filter-control/issues/1 > > > > We need your feedback on this. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > >> -----Message d'origine----- > >> De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- > >> drafts@ietf.org > >> Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:34 > >> =C3=80 : i-d-announce@ietf.org > >> Cc : dots@ietf.org > >> Objet : [Dots] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt > >> > >> > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >> directories. > >> This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of = the > IETF. > >> > >> Title : Controlling Filtering Rules Using = Distributed > >> Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel > >> Authors : Kaname Nishizuka > >> Mohamed Boucadair > >> Tirumaleswar Reddy > >> Takahiko Nagata > >> Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00.txt > >> Pages : 23 > >> Date : 2019-04-23 > >> > >> Abstract: > >> This document specifies an extension to the DOTS signal channel = so > >> that DOTS clients can control their filtering rules when an = attack > >> mitigation is active. > >> > >> Particularly, this extension allows a DOTS client to activate = or de- > >> activate existing filtering rules during a DDoS attack. The > >> characterization of these filtering rules is supposed to be = conveyed > >> by a DOTS client during an idle time by means of the DOTS data > >> channel protocol. > >> > >> Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) > >> > >> Please update these statements within the document with the RFC > >> number to be assigned to this document: > >> > >> o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" > >> > >> o "RFC XXXX: Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed = Denial- > >> of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel"; > >> > >> o reference: RFC XXXX > >> > >> o [RFCXXXX] > >> > >> Please update these statements with the RFC number to be = assigned to > >> the following documents: > >> > >> o "RFC SSSS: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat = Signaling > >> (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification" (used to be > >> [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-channel]) > >> > >> o "RFC DDDD: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat = Signaling > >> (DOTS) Data Channel Specification" (used to be > >> [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel]) > >> > >> Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. > >> > >> > >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ > >> > >> There are also htmlized versions available at: > >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-00 > >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-contr= ol- > >> 00 > >> > >> > >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. > >> > >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Dots mailing list > >> Dots@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 25 03:27:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DE6120111 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:27:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ec8rrvT1B4Sy for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3DA412006F for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJbbB-0000IS-3b; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:27:25 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64E53@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656B7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656B7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:27:23 +0100 Message-ID: <012e01d4fb51$7a4d0e20$6ee72a60$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3QGUJEMaAbTQtMAA8kzLKQJ12CJ+AjVMCj0CD7jm6QEHvqv3AesrjAABLjgzegH8cTfnpLerT2A= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:27:32 -0000 Hi Med / Tiru, I am having a hard time working out how to implement this Call Home = using libcoap. The easiest way in my current thinking is that the role reversal should = only be at the UDP or TCP layer and then (D)TLS is set up / initiated by = the DOTS client to the DOTS server (and is how RFC8071 defines the setup = of the security layer over TCP). Otherwise, libcoap needs to be taught that (D)TLS set up is in the = reverse direction to the CoAP transfers which would involve a = significant re-write and a lot of clarity in the code (e.g. am I a = server or a client at this point of working in the network stack?). Just establishing a session 5 tuple in the reverse direction and then = remembering this only for the UDP/TCP layer is a simple libcoap change. So, I would like to see it as (as per RFC8071 Figure 1:) DOTS DOTS Server Client | | | 1. TCP or UDP | |----------------------------------->| | 2. (D)TLS set up | |<-----------------------------------| | 3. Mitigation request | |<-----------------------------------| | | Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: 25 April 2019 07:14 > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > Cc: dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 >=20 > Hi Tiru, >=20 > Works for me. >=20 > An updated version with a slightly updated wording is available at: > = https://github.com/boucadair/dots-call-home/blob/master/draft-ietf-dots- > signal-call-home-00.txt >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 15:26 > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > Objet : RE: [Dots] Adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 6:42 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not = click links > > or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > content is > > > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 14:56 > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; = dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] Adoption = call > > > > for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 4:48 PM > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not = click > > > > > links > > > > or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 13:01 =C3=80 : = BOUCADAIR Mohamed > > > > > > TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] = Adoption > > > > > > call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:18 PM > > > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 08:13 =C3=80 : = BOUCADAIR Mohamed > > > > > > > > TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > > > > > Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:26 AM > > > > > > > > > To: Valery Smyslov ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the = organization. Do > > > > > > > > > not click links > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and = know > > > > > > > > > the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- De : Dots > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery > > > > > > > > > > Smyslov Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:02 = =C3=80 : > > > > > > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > Cc : > > > > > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : Re: = [Dots] > > > > > > > > > > Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of = the > > > document. > > > > > > > > > > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please = re-submit it > > > > > > > > > > as WG > > > > > > draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of comments. > > > > > > > > > > 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". = This > > > > > > > > > > combination is > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it = is not > > > > > > > > > > listed > > > > > > neither > > > > > > > > > > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was = to use > > > > > > > > > > RFC > > > > > > > > requirement > > > > > > > > > > language, then I'd suggest replacing it with = one of > > > > > > > > > > MUST NOT, SHALL NOT, > > > > > > > > > > SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Good catch. Fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. When describing transport, the draft allows both = TLS and > > DTLS. > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > > makes me confusing is that the draft describes = it > > > > > > > > > > several times as "TCP/TLS or DTLS". > > > > > > > > > > Why TCP is ever mentioned here? We all know = that TLS > > > > > > > > > > usually runs > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > TCP (however we now have QUICK) and DTLS runs = over > UDP. > > > > > > > > > > The way it is presented in the draft makes me = think > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > plain TCP is also allowed as a transport, but = is > > > > > > > > > > seems to > > > > > > contradict > > > > > > > > > > everything I read about DOTS. Am I missing = something > > here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Plain TCP is not allowed. The intent was to be > > > > > > > > > explicit that there is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > reversal in both TCP and TLS layers, but as you = rightfully > > > > > > > > > raised this may > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > confusing since, for the DOTS case, it is trivial that = the > > > > > > > > > reversal of TLS > > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > > implies the reversal of TCP ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESTCONF call home only reverses the TCP role but not = the TLS > > > > > > > > role. In DOTS case, the server has to initiate DTLS = handshake > > > > > > > > for UDP. To keep the roles same for TCP, TLS handshake = is > > > > > > > > also initiated > > > > by > > > > > the server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] You missed "for the DOTS case" in my previous reply = :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do have the following in the draft: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DOTS = DOTS > > > > > > > Server = Client > > > > > > > | | > > > > > > > | 1. (D)TLS connection | > > > > > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > | 2. Mitigation request | > > > > > > > |<-----------------------------------| > > > > > > > | | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That can be trivially expanded as follows for the TLS = case: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DOTS = DOTS > > > > > > > Server = Client > > > > > > > | | > > > > > > > | 1.1. TCP | > > > > > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > | 1.2. TLS | > > > > > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > | 2. Mitigation request | > > > > > > > |<-----------------------------------| > > > > > > > | | > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, the use of TCP/TLS is OK but it may = be > > > > > > > confusing as initially raised by Valery. > > > > > > > > > > > > The updated text is not accurate if TCP is not covered, role > > > > > > reversal at TLS does not mean role reversal at TCP. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The updated text is still fine (ref to Figure 1). We = don't > > > > > have any ambiguity in the procedure part with regards to TCP. = We > > > > > explicitly say the > > > > > following: > > > > > > > > > > If TCP is used, the DOTS server begins by initiating a = TCP > > > > > connection to the DOTS client. The DOTS client MUST = support > > > > > accepting TCP connections on the IANA-assigned port = number > > > > > defined in Section 4.1, but MAY be configured to listen = to a > > > > > different port number. Using this TCP connection, the = DOTS > > > > > server initiates a TLS connection to the DOTS client. > > > > > > > > > > > Similar to (D)TLS, I prefer explicit text to say role = reversal at > > TCP. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We already have such text (see the above excerpt). > > > > > > > > [TR] Yes, but the updated sentences are incomplete/incorrect at > > > > various places. I have listed one of the inconsistencies below > > > > > > > > The one and only role reversal that > > > > occurs are at the TLS or DTLS layers; that is, the DOTS = server acts > > > > as a DTLS client and the DOTS client acts as a DTLS server or = the > > > > DOTS server acts as a TLS client and the DOTS client acts as = a TLS > > > > server. The DOTS server initiates TLS handshake or DTLS = handshake > to > > > > the DOTS client. > > > > > > > > The above update means no role reversal at the TCP layer ! > > > > > > [Med] This text assumes that the TCP is implicitly covered by "TLS = layer" > > > (refer again to Figure 1). There is no ambiguity that the reversal = at the > > TLS > > > layer for the DOTS case implies a reversal of the TCP roles, = because > > > otherwise the connection cannot be established at the first place = (due to > > the > > > presence of NATs/FWs) ! > > > > If NAT is not present, connection can be established. FW can be = configured > to > > permit TCP connections from external peer (e.g. port forwarding). > > > > > > > > We can removed "one and only" if this really hurts, though. > > > > I propose the following additional change: > > > > The role reversal that > > occurs are at the TLS or DTLS layers; that is, the DOTS server = acts > > as a DTLS client and the DOTS client acts as a DTLS server or = the > > DOTS server acts as a TLS client initiating the underlying TCP = connection > > and the DOTS client acts as a TLS > > server. The DOTS server initiates TLS handshake or DTLS = handshake to > > the DOTS client. > > > > -Tiru > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 25 03:34:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75331120155 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:34:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e83oE9cvLLum for ; 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UyBoYW5kc2hha2UgdG8NCj4gPiAgICB0aGUgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiAtVGlydQ0K From nobody Thu Apr 25 03:42:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945A6120169 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FncgmIf_BGfi for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com 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Jon Shallow , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AdTuHVZNyfDh6IMnTiyfhZP8vM2pOAMPXcMAAAHlewAAACVi8AABQijQAAj4x4AAAJCXsAADitfgAAByLdAAAFuUIAAjllPAAAjlb4AAAEheYA== Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64E53@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656B7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012e01d4fb51$7a4d0e20$6ee72a60$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <012e01d4fb51$7a4d0e20$6ee72a60$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: 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X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6532> : inlines <7059> : streams <1819677> : uri <2836861> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IERv dHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRm Lm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg== From nobody Thu Apr 25 04:14:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFCF120161 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:14:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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"dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) Thread-Index: AQHU+0Sq1V/hGCdsE0ag/VLKIAhvs6ZMuPcw Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:14:33 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65899@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65899OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sencQm2_RT3Z for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF18A120045 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJcMj-0000Kb-3s; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:16:33 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64E53@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA656B7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012e01d4fb51$7a4d0e20$6ee72a60$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:16:31 +0100 Message-ID: <013c01d4fb58$576f1ae0$064d50a0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJbKhUsh7U/p5pdx+eMSV8unPEt3QGUJEMaAbTQtMAA8kzLKQJ12CJ+AjVMCj0CD7jm6QEHvqv3AesrjAABLjgzegH8cTfnAb8negMCuGSEXaST/aNQ Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:16:39 -0000 Hi Tiru, Good point about the DOTS server initial UDP Packet needs to include the = Client Hello. However, if it was an empty packet (no data, or some = other specifically defined data), the DOTS client could ignore any data = (as it is listening on the Call Home port) then use the 5 tuple of the = received packet to send the initial Client Hello to the DOTS server.=20 However, that does raise the question of an attack where someone is = sending spoofed IP packets to the DOTS client. But that would also be = true for a Client Hello packet with a spoofed source IP causing the = recipient to send out the Server Hello to the spoofed originator. I will continue to look at how to do the current draft thinking in = libcoap .... Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, = Tirumaleswar Reddy > Sent: 25 April 2019 11:41 > To: Jon Shallow; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 >=20 > Hi Jon, >=20 > For UDP, the first packet is the DTLS ClientHello message and it has = to be > sent by the DOTS server. The DOTS client cannot send the ClientHello > Message as the first packet > because of the reasons listed in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8071#section- > 1.1. We followed the same logic for TLS/TCP. >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jon Shallow > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 3:57 PM > > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > ; dots@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > Hi Med / Tiru, > > > > I am having a hard time working out how to implement this Call Home > using > > libcoap. > > > > The easiest way in my current thinking is that the role reversal = should only > be > > at the UDP or TCP layer and then (D)TLS is set up / initiated by the = DOTS > client > > to the DOTS server (and is how RFC8071 defines the setup of the = security > > layer over TCP). > > > > Otherwise, libcoap needs to be taught that (D)TLS set up is in the = reverse > > direction to the CoAP transfers which would involve a significant = re-write > and > > a lot of clarity in the code (e.g. am I a server or a client at this = point of > working > > in the network stack?). > > > > Just establishing a session 5 tuple in the reverse direction and = then > > remembering this only for the UDP/TCP layer is a simple libcoap = change. > > > > So, I would like to see it as (as per RFC8071 Figure 1:) > > > > DOTS DOTS > > Server Client > > | = | > > | 1. TCP or UDP | > > |----------------------------------->| > > | 2. (D)TLS set up | > > |<-----------------------------------| > > | 3. Mitigation request | > > |<-----------------------------------| > > | = | > > > > Regards > > > > Jon > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > Sent: 25 April 2019 07:14 > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > Cc: dots@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for = draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > Hi Tiru, > > > > > > Works for me. > > > > > > An updated version with a slightly updated wording is available = at: > > > = https://github.com/boucadair/dots-call-home/blob/master/draft-ietf-dot > > > s- > > > signal-call-home-00.txt > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 15:26 =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR = Mohamed > TGI/OLN; > > > > Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : dots-chairs@ietf.org; > > > > kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 6:42 PM > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > > > > > click links > > > > or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > content is > > > > > safe. > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 14:56 =C3=80 : = BOUCADAIR Mohamed > > > > > > TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] = Adoption > > > > > > call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 4:48 PM > > > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do = not > > > > > > > click links > > > > > > or > > > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know = the > > > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 13:01 =C3=80 : = BOUCADAIR Mohamed > > > > > > > > TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > > > > > Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:18 PM > > > > > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- De : Konda, Tirumaleswar > > > > > > > > > > Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 08:13 =C3=80 : = BOUCADAIR > > > > > > > > > > Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: = [Dots] > > > > > > > > > > Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:26 AM > > > > > > > > > > > To: Valery Smyslov ; = dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the > > > > > > > > > > > organization. Do not click links > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender = and > > > > > > > > > > > know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- De : Dots > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de = Valery > > > > > > > > > > > > Smyslov Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 = 07:02 =C3=80 : > > > > > > > > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > > > Cc : > > > > > > > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : Re: > > > > > > > > > > > > [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > > > > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption = of > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > document. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please > > > > > > > > > > > > re-submit it as WG > > > > > > > > draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". > > > > > > > > > > > > This combination is > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > among the list of RFC requirement keywords = (it > > > > > > > > > > > > is not listed > > > > > > > > neither > > > > > > > > > > > > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent = was > > > > > > > > > > > > to use RFC > > > > > > > > > > requirement > > > > > > > > > > > > language, then I'd suggest replacing it = with > > > > > > > > > > > > one of MUST NOT, SHALL NOT, > > > > > > > > > > > > SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it = lowcase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Good catch. Fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. When describing transport, the draft allows = both > > > > > > > > > > > > TLS and > > > > DTLS. > > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > > > > makes me confusing is that the draft = describes > > > > > > > > > > > > it several times as "TCP/TLS or DTLS". > > > > > > > > > > > > Why TCP is ever mentioned here? We all know > > > > > > > > > > > > that TLS usually runs > > > > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > > > > TCP (however we now have QUICK) and DTLS = runs > > > > > > > > > > > > over > > > UDP. > > > > > > > > > > > > The way it is presented in the draft makes = me > > > > > > > > > > > > think that > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > > > plain TCP is also allowed as a transport, = but > > > > > > > > > > > > is seems to > > > > > > > > contradict > > > > > > > > > > > > everything I read about DOTS. Am I missing > > > > > > > > > > > > something > > > > here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Plain TCP is not allowed. The intent was to = be > > > > > > > > > > > explicit that there is > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > reversal in both TCP and TLS layers, but as you > > > > > > > > > > > rightfully raised this may > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > confusing since, for the DOTS case, it is trivial = that > > > > > > > > > > > the reversal of TLS > > > > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > > > > > implies the reversal of TCP ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESTCONF call home only reverses the TCP role but = not > > > > > > > > > > the TLS role. In DOTS case, the server has to = initiate > > > > > > > > > > DTLS handshake for UDP. To keep the roles same for = TCP, > > > > > > > > > > TLS handshake is also initiated > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] You missed "for the DOTS case" in my previous = reply > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We do have the following in the draft: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DOTS = DOTS > > > > > > > > > Server = Client > > > > > > > > > | = | > > > > > > > > > | 1. (D)TLS connection = | > > > > > > > > > = |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > > > | 2. Mitigation request = | > > > > > > > > > = |<-----------------------------------| > > > > > > > > > | = | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That can be trivially expanded as follows for the TLS = case: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DOTS = DOTS > > > > > > > > > Server = Client > > > > > > > > > | = | > > > > > > > > > | 1.1. TCP = | > > > > > > > > > = |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > > > | 1.2. TLS = | > > > > > > > > > = |----------------------------------->| > > > > > > > > > | 2. Mitigation request = | > > > > > > > > > = |<-----------------------------------| > > > > > > > > > | = | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, the use of TCP/TLS is OK but it = may > > > > > > > > > be confusing as initially raised by Valery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The updated text is not accurate if TCP is not covered, = role > > > > > > > > reversal at TLS does not mean role reversal at TCP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The updated text is still fine (ref to Figure 1). We > > > > > > > don't have any ambiguity in the procedure part with = regards to > > > > > > > TCP. We explicitly say the > > > > > > > following: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If TCP is used, the DOTS server begins by = initiating a TCP > > > > > > > connection to the DOTS client. The DOTS client = MUST > support > > > > > > > accepting TCP connections on the IANA-assigned port = number > > > > > > > defined in Section 4.1, but MAY be configured to = listen to a > > > > > > > different port number. Using this TCP connection, = the DOTS > > > > > > > server initiates a TLS connection to the DOTS = client. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similar to (D)TLS, I prefer explicit text to say role > > > > > > > > reversal at > > > > TCP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We already have such text (see the above excerpt). > > > > > > > > > > > > [TR] Yes, but the updated sentences are incomplete/incorrect = at > > > > > > various places. I have listed one of the inconsistencies = below > > > > > > > > > > > > The one and only role reversal that > > > > > > occurs are at the TLS or DTLS layers; that is, the DOTS = server acts > > > > > > as a DTLS client and the DOTS client acts as a DTLS = server or the > > > > > > DOTS server acts as a TLS client and the DOTS client acts = as a TLS > > > > > > server. The DOTS server initiates TLS handshake or DTLS > > > > > > handshake > > > to > > > > > > the DOTS client. > > > > > > > > > > > > The above update means no role reversal at the TCP layer ! > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This text assumes that the TCP is implicitly covered by = "TLS > layer" > > > > > (refer again to Figure 1). There is no ambiguity that the = reversal > > > > > at the > > > > TLS > > > > > layer for the DOTS case implies a reversal of the TCP roles, > > > > > because otherwise the connection cannot be established at the > > > > > first place (due to > > > > the > > > > > presence of NATs/FWs) ! > > > > > > > > If NAT is not present, connection can be established. FW can be > > > > configured > > > to > > > > permit TCP connections from external peer (e.g. port = forwarding). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can removed "one and only" if this really hurts, though. > > > > > > > > I propose the following additional change: > > > > > > > > The role reversal that > > > > occurs are at the TLS or DTLS layers; that is, the DOTS = server acts > > > > as a DTLS client and the DOTS client acts as a DTLS server = or the > > > > DOTS server acts as a TLS client initiating the underlying = TCP > > > > connection and the DOTS client acts as a TLS > > > > server. The DOTS server initiates TLS handshake or DTLS = handshake > to > > > > the DOTS client. > > > > > > > > -Tiru > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Dots mailing list > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Apr 25 04:23:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AAF120045 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RWFw0pIv9-CF for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62C8A120072 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hJcTW-0000Kt-3M; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:23:34 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65899@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65899@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:23:32 +0100 Message-ID: <013e01d4fb59$525bb530$f7131f90$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_013F_01D4FB61.B4210790" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIvp+qO+awQ4wrsv0AJFVYrtrllSwEm/r99pY4pXtA= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:23:39 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01D4FB61.B4210790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, =20 "acl-list and acl-name" works for me, and keeps things clear should any = new acl-* definition appear in the future. =20 Regards =20 Jon =20 From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Sent: 25 April 2019 12:15 To: dots@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dots] [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be = acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) =20 acl-name cannot be included without including acl-list. =20 acl-type is optional since acl-name is sufficient to identify an ACL. = Including it would be valid, but it is completely fine to recommend = against including acl-type by replacing acl-* with "acl-list and = acl-name". =20 Cheers, Med =20 De : mrdeep1 [mailto:notifications@github.com]=20 Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 25 avril 2019 10:56 =C3=80 : boucadair/filter-control Cc : Subscribed Objet : [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in = most cases in the text (#2) =20 acl-name is the only acl-* that a client can send in a request to a = server - the others are only used for conflict responses. E.g. A DOTS client may include acl-* attributes in a mitigation request should be A DOTS client may include the acl-name attribute in a mitigation request =E2=80=94 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub = , or mute the = thread = . = =20 ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01D4FB61.B4210790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Med,

 

"acl-list and acl-name" works for me, and keeps things clear = should any new acl-* definition appear in the = future.

 

Regards

 

Jon

 

From:= Dots = [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Sent: 25 April 2019 = 12:15
To: dots@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dots] = [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases = in the text (#2)

 

acl-name cannot be included without including = acl-list.

 

acl-type is optional since acl-name is sufficient to = identify an ACL. Including it would be valid, but it is completely fine = to recommend against including acl-type by replacing acl-* with = "acl-list and acl-name".

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : mrdeep1 = [mailto:notifications@github.com]
Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 25 = avril 2019 10:56
=C3=80 : = boucadair/filter-control
Cc : = Subscribed
Objet : [boucadair/filter-control] Use of = acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text = (#2)

 

acl-name is the = only acl-* that a client can send in a request to a server - the others = are only used for conflict responses.

E.g.
A DOTS client may include acl-* attributes in a = mitigation request

should = be

A DOTS client may include the = acl-name attribute in a mitigation request

=E2=80=94
You are receiving this because you = are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly, view it on = GitHub, or mute the thread.

------=_NextPart_000_013F_01D4FB61.B4210790-- From nobody Thu Apr 25 04:27:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723F61200D7 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TjUXMzum4ryv for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68520120072 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 04:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qZdy51Syz5wqq; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:27:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qZdy4F4bz1xpW; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:27:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::90fe:7dc1:fb15:a02b%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:27:02 +0200 From: To: Jon Shallow , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) Thread-Index: AQHU+0Sq1V/hGCdsE0ag/VLKIAhvs6ZMuPcw///hmQCAACJEMA== Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:27:02 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA658EF@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65899@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <013e01d4fb59$525bb530$f7131f90$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <013e01d4fb59$525bb530$f7131f90$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA658EFOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [boucadair/filter-control] Use of acl-* should be acl-name in most cases in the text (#2) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Thu, 25 Apr 2019 05:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2706D120150 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 05:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qbXR22BnzBrlH; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:07:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.86]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qbXR0y44z1xnn; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:07:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:07:18 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCw Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 12:07:18 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBEb3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+ID4gPiA+ IERvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4g RG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+ID4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+IERvdHNAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Thu Apr 25 07:17:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4510F1200F4 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.4 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0VPH8cww0AwB for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E8551200A3 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qfQz1SnWz7tVv; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:17:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.89]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44qfQz0TzJz1xpC; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:17:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:17:46 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMA== Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:17:46 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Thu Apr 25 07:26:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D616812011C for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:26:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NQYj7GqFV4i for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (dnvwsmailout1.mcafee.com 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, "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZgg Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:26:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; x-originating-ip: [49.37.205.191] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4gPiA+ID4g RG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQo= From nobody Thu Apr 25 14:25:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD89120140; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:25:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.648 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.648 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jP2Gu74K87V; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com (mail-lf1-f43.google.com [209.85.167.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B0C2120158; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id t30so747530lfd.8; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U41v/BPURRNQFk9u352HCNnp2YHrm9EntYdKcztJ/oU=; b=Dz3deXuVQJTjcUTyIVDTAYJN0SfH2jB8/JkuEDgQyUr/W0lspxZoerFNSltg2G/4cH UyCXS7nHl6io7ZxOPhfz+cl1XjbbMN3FaERRazyryt0DMCKVYSleBhElO6JSjvIdUQuF EsYYWajEKZJvzkkQcoVTv8ZVi9Yels692xDKc7OrfyifVjMi1Nik6zKYn2XY2bloRLfn R3yuVNpAOFFdGCvKgQk/PBbindv/VVMjXmMvJ4EfkfdtJrtTWdSlxDCa05FG8pPUrJbB sKK40/ryB3na9WBadbv+C09Onb0LEpt3IkPF0262sVRLw7w/4C5FmtFVPL1PyOuIIZL0 wbIg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXmtD/4O3Buzbs/wFmXbajm4KDqn3/zWT0wNE7JmqZomiOsI8Fa 3hUMnUiYCnQB6j9HCLSJnlzZF8L/T0b8KOwKogw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzjYBvwejlQJZK48rhA/8G9RD1+HRZeVEpXHgWR1EpOD2NxdRqCNUJVt1p2H7YBEx4AumLyZ7Xcg5ah3B3Y0zI= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5315:: with SMTP id c21mr23758193lfh.25.1556227524172; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Daniel Migault Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:25:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: "Panwei (William)" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c4a4fc058761742c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:25:29 -0000 --000000000000c4a4fc058761742c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Tiru, Thanks for the feedback. Please see my comments/response and clarification. Apology for being so long to respond. Yours, Daniel On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 8:53 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > > > Thanks for the review, Please see inline [TR] > > > > *From:* Dots *On Behalf Of * Daniel Migault > *Sent:* Monday, April 15, 2019 9:34 PM > *To:* Panwei (William) > *Cc:* dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov ; > dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > *Subject:* Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > ------------------------------ > > I support the adoption of the draft, please see my comments on the curren= t > version. None of them should be considered as preventing the adoption. > > > > Yours, > > Daniel > > > > Some random comments: > > > > > > Section 1: > > > > """ > > Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris, > > and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network > > devices without adversely affecting its performance. The reason is > > typically home routers have fast path to boost the throughput. For > > every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first few packets are punted through > > the slow path. Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS > > attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the > > target server after the flow is switched to fast path. Deep packet > > inspection (DPI) of all the packets of a flow would be able to detect > > some of the attacks. However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these > > type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible > > for all the devices attached to the home network owing to the memory > > and CPU limitations of the home routers. Further, for certain DDoS > > attacks the ability to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker > > traffic on a per packet basis is complex. This complexity originates > > from the fact that the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no > > attack signature can be identified. The anomaly can be identified > > only after detailed statistical analysis. > > """ > > > > I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection at the ISP is > > easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This > > is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we are going a bit > > further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS target. I believe that > > the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud > > provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of the Homenet and the > > ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be generalized and actually > > help coordination between independent domains. I believe the draft can > > be placed in a larger perspective. > > > > [TR] Agreed, it is relatively easy for the DDoS mitigation provider for > the attack target to detect sophisticated DDoS attacks (especially if the > attack uses encrypted traffic). > > > > I will add the following lines: > > > > BGP defines a mechanism as described in [RFC5575] that can be used to > > automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such as what > > is required in order to mitigate DDoS attacks. DDoS mitigation provider > > for the attack target can detect sophisticated DDoS attacks > > using encrypted attack traffic, and can possibly use BGP flowspec > [RFC5575] to > > convey the filtering rules to filter block, or rate-limit DDoS attack > traffic originating > > from the ISP's subscribers to the attack target. > > > > > > Section 3.1 Procedure: > > > > I am not convinced this is the right approach to switch the roles > > between clients and servers. I believe that while the previous dots > > signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now > > considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one > > way to see this could be to have a DOTS communication between different > > entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating > > the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving > > side is the DOTS Responder. > > > > Here is a more concrete example while Client / Server might be > > confusing. When a server sends an alert when under attach it is designat= ed > > as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresses > > are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server. > > > > It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent > > by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending further > > notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS > > channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may re-use that exact > > same channel. > > > > I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or > > announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is able > > to handle the requests and be a "Server". > > > > [TR] Both draft-reddy-dots-home-network and RFC8071 adopt the same > approach for managing roles and connections. You may want to look into > RFC8071. > > CoAP allows asynchronous messages but the request is always sent > by the CoAP client. > > > ok thanks. and we wants to map the DOTS Client with the CoAP client. In other words, it is out of scope to have a DOT CLient with a CoAP client and a CoAP server. When I wrote the comment I had a push request in mind, and observe does not work ;-) > I believe the clarification and comparison with the > > "traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for > > clarification purpose. However, one should make sure also that such > > signalling can also be made with a signal dots signalling established in > > the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS > > channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the > > draft. > > > > [TR] I don=E2=80=99t get the above comment. > I suppose my mouse pointer tricked me. The idea I wanted to provide was that *maybe* it would be good to think as DOTS peers that establish a channel using DTLS and each peer can be over the same channel act as a client or server. We would rather talk about initiator and responder. In other word, to make teh protocol less asymmetric. > > > Cheers, > > -Tiru > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) < > william.panwei@huawei.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I support adoption of this draft. > > Best Regards > Wei Pan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > adopted, please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > --000000000000c4a4fc058761742c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Tiru,=C2=A0

Thanks fo= r the feedback. Please see my comments/response and clarification. Apology = for being so long to respond.

Yours,=C2=A0
Daniel

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 8:53 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.= com> wrote:

Hi Daniel,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the review, Please see inline [TR]=

=C2=A0

From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Daniel Migault
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 9:34 PM
To: Panwei (William) <william.panwei@huawei.com>
Cc: dots-c= hairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-= 04

=C2=A0

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz= e the sender and know the content is safe.

I support the adoption of the draft, please see my c= omments on the current version. None of them should be considered as preven= ting the adoption.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Yours,=C2=A0

Daniel

=C2=A0

Some random comments:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Section 1:

=C2=A0

"""

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed R= ST or FIN packets, Slowloris,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to= detect on the home network

=C2=A0 =C2=A0devices without adversely affecting its= performance.=C2=A0 The reason is

=C2=A0 =C2=A0typically home routers have fast path t= o boost the throughput.=C2=A0 For

=C2=A0 =C2=A0every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first = few packets are punted through

=C2=A0 =C2=A0the slow path.=C2=A0 Hence, it is not p= ossible to detect various DDoS

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacks in the slow path, since the att= ack payload is sent to the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0target server after the flow is switche= d to fast path.=C2=A0 Deep packet

=C2=A0 =C2=A0inspection (DPI) of all the packets of = a flow would be able to detect

=C2=A0 =C2=A0some of the attacks.=C2=A0 However, a f= ull-fledged DPI to detect these

=C2=A0 =C2=A0type of DDoS attacks is functionally or= operationally not possible

=C2=A0 =C2=A0for all the devices attached to the hom= e network owing to the memory

=C2=A0 =C2=A0and CPU limitations of the home routers= .=C2=A0 Further, for certain DDoS

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacks the ability to distinguish legi= timate traffic from attacker

=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic on a per packet basis is comple= x.=C2=A0 This complexity originates

=C2=A0 =C2=A0from the fact that the packet itself ma= y look "legitimate" and no

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack signature can be identified.=C2= =A0 The anomaly can be identified

=C2=A0 =C2=A0only after detailed statistical analysi= s.

"""

=C2=A0

I understand, the paragraph below as saying that det= ection at the ISP is

easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregat= es the traffic. This

is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we= are going a bit

further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS ta= rget. I believe that

the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS = target, its Cloud

provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of= the Homenet and the

ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be gener= alized and actually

help coordination between independent domains.=C2=A0= I believe the draft can

be placed in a larger perspective.

=C2=A0

[TR] Agreed, it is relatively easy for the DDoS miti= gation provider for the attack target to detect sophisticated DDoS attacks = (especially if the attack uses encrypted traffic).

=C2=A0

I will add the following lines:

=C2=A0

BGP defines a mechanism= as described in [RFC5575] that can be used to

automate inter-domain c= oordination of traffic filtering, such as what

is required in order to= mitigate DDoS attacks. DDoS mitigation provider

for the attack target c= an detect sophisticated DDoS attacks

using encrypted attack = traffic, and can possibly use BGP flowspec [RFC5575] to

=C2=A0=C2=A0convey the filtering rules to filter blo= ck, or rate-limit DDoS attack traffic originating

=C2=A0=C2=A0from the ISP's subscribers to the at= tack target.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Section 3.1 Procedure:

=C2=A0

I am not convinced this is the right approach to swi= tch the roles

between clients and servers. I believe that while th= e previous dots

signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymme= tric, we are now

considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly sy= mmetric. Maybe one

way to see this could be to have a DOTS communicatio= n between different

entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. T= he one initiating

the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, = while the receiving

side is the DOTS Responder.

=C2=A0

Here is a more concrete example while Client / Serve= r=C2=A0 might be

confusing. When=C2=A0 a server sends an alert when u= nder attach it is designated

as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying= these IP addresses

are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the= Server.

=C2=A0

It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS= channel can be sent

by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending = further

notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may = have set the DOTS

channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may= re-use that exact

same channel.

=C2=A0

I am also wondering if the support of the extension = is agreed or

announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of = which peer is able

to handle the requests and be a "Server".<= u>

=C2=A0

[TR] Both draft-reddy-dots-home-network and RFC8071 = adopt the same approach for managing roles and connections. You may want to= look into RFC8071.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0CoAP= allows asynchronous messages but the request is always sent by the CoAP cl= ient.

=C2=A0

<mglt>ok thanks. and we wants to= map the DOTS Client with the CoAP client. In other words, it is out of sco= pe to have a DOT CLient with a CoAP client and a CoAP server. When I wrote = the comment I had a push request in mind, and observe does not work ;-)<= /mglt>
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=

I believe the clarification and comparison with the<= u>

"traditional"/"initial" DOTS use= cases is useful and needs to stay for

clarification purpose. However, one should make sure= also that such

signalling can also be made with a signal dots signa= lling established in

the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client ma= y have set the DOTS

channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the= signalling of the

draft.

=C2=A0

[TR] I don=E2=80=99t get the above comment.

<mglt= >I suppose my mouse pointer tricked me. The idea I wanted to provide was= that *maybe* it would be good to think as DOTS peers that establish a chan= nel using DTLS and each peer can be over the same channel act as a client o= r server. We would rather talk about initiator and responder. In other word= , to make teh protocol less asymmetric. </mglt>=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

-Tiru

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) &l= t;william.pa= nwei@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi,

I support adoption of this draft.

Best Regards
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM
To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@i= etf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04

Hi all,

the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-= network-04.

This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04.
The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd.

Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list be= fore this date.
If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why.

Regards,
Frank & Valery.


_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
--000000000000c4a4fc058761742c-- From nobody Thu Apr 25 18:01:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3CA120379; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y6AHJGMR_LE4; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-f42.google.com (mail-lf1-f42.google.com [209.85.167.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FCF8120006; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id o16so1155491lfl.7; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3MHBzDVqIdzivdpB8t1jdREiwVDs9w4cNlzQZ9WRFuM=; b=aNqHGm7e6/a9P11pd82wrIP6RPWwR4/GodlpzMuMCyza6/ctBYHzUkiXRKKGjC/Up5 /oIPZzm1oJSThCAnkMjffIjp2D30Drvs4fS+Vqfv5ClgXZESzzH/fOtuBfOwgJpZkKid S96CJ74LXFZP9ERfJV8S2CzBztQx65tnpVGXZIckZGTIwV34+/81du9J6W65uukMlJP/ Ebl4hxhvtyEeDA+GDNHOQNa3+rpg+bIblhfPY1Y+a2ZKsgPeCFMHN5yh/Xt2DLfYC/3W tgEywvYVf1ieGDfnl/fE1p5uCJ8pyO1mUDC/HWlt+NrS8lDAQXBbUhvmMvMFe5x6AMd7 sRxA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjytMHXSN+JsULUKeAM0hfKOe19suJuMKahpWUEapw7oMhaLI2 inYUs2VjIPWuEqwGo1JxeVfjFN5l6z4rAqmixps= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/dhExLNUvuBVxu6R6Aj2oZhCQoXcR+p6mWrgpNVQp4liD0g/21Le7gVZWU7Nj5gu5HGzN5UgFiM0KosCAeN0= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:52a8:: with SMTP id r8mr22735005lfm.160.1556240454036; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:00:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Daniel Migault Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:00:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000072b21e0587647767" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 01:01:01 -0000 --00000000000072b21e0587647767 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Please find my comments inline. I believe my initial comment is addressed. Igot confused between the DOTS and DTLS Client. Yours, Daniel On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 9:13 AM wrote: > Hi Tiru, Daniel, > > > > With regards to: > > > > =E2=80=9C I believe that > > the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud > > provider major ISPs up to the origin.=E2=80=9D > > > > This is not currently doable with DOTS. Some key functional components ar= e > needed: > > (1) To identify the appropriate ISP which is hosting a DDoS source once a > DDoS target has detected/reported an attack to its DOTS server/provider. > The target may not be on the same network as the source. > I might be wrong, but it seems to me that when the IP address is not spoof, you can relatively easily go back to the ISP of that IP address. (at least). Am I missing something ? > (2) That ISP needs to expose a service to receive these notifications. > Theoretically, you would need an mesh of ISP DOTS communications (for DTLS). but I imagine we could start with ISP you peer with or have servers at the RIR level.... > > > Of course, if the ISP is capable of receiving these notifications, it can > invoke the procedure in draft-reddy-dots-home-network. > > > > The scenario mentioned by Daniel is an interesting problem to address=E2= =80=A6but > I=E2=80=99m afraid this is out of scope of the current DOTS charter. > In fact what I really wanted to point out was that at the target node. a DOT Client sends a message to the DMS. briefly re-reading the draft I have the impression the DOTS client is on the ISP side. Only TCP/DTLS client server are exchanged. This seems fine. I believe I misread this the first time. > > > I don=E2=80=99t see how BGP Flowspec solves this. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Konda, > Tirumaleswar Reddy > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 18 avril 2019 14:52 > *=C3=80 :* Daniel Migault; Panwei (William) > *Cc :* dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > *Objet :* Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > Hi Daniel, > > > > Thanks for the review, Please see inline [TR] > > > > *From:* Dots *On Behalf Of *Daniel Migault > *Sent:* Monday, April 15, 2019 9:34 PM > *To:* Panwei (William) > *Cc:* dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov ; > dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > *Subject:* Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless > you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > ------------------------------ > > I support the adoption of the draft, please see my comments on the curren= t > version. None of them should be considered as preventing the adoption. > > > > Yours, > > Daniel > > > > Some random comments: > > > > > > Section 1: > > > > """ > > Some of the DDoS attacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris, > > and TLS re-negotiation are difficult to detect on the home network > > devices without adversely affecting its performance. The reason is > > typically home routers have fast path to boost the throughput. For > > every new TCP/UDP flow, only the first few packets are punted through > > the slow path. Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS > > attacks in the slow path, since the attack payload is sent to the > > target server after the flow is switched to fast path. Deep packet > > inspection (DPI) of all the packets of a flow would be able to detect > > some of the attacks. However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these > > type of DDoS attacks is functionally or operationally not possible > > for all the devices attached to the home network owing to the memory > > and CPU limitations of the home routers. Further, for certain DDoS > > attacks the ability to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker > > traffic on a per packet basis is complex. This complexity originates > > from the fact that the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no > > attack signature can be identified. The anomaly can be identified > > only after detailed statistical analysis. > > """ > > > > I understand, the paragraph below as saying that detection at the ISP is > > easier than at the homenet level as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This > > is correct and I agree with the text. However, if we are going a bit > > further, the detection is even easier to the DDoS target. I believe that > > the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud > > provider major ISPs up to the origin. The example of the Homenet and the > > ISP is only one bound but the mechanism can be generalized and actually > > help coordination between independent domains. I believe the draft can > > be placed in a larger perspective. > > > > [TR] Agreed, it is relatively easy for the DDoS mitigation provider for > the attack target to detect sophisticated DDoS attacks (especially if the > attack uses encrypted traffic). > > > > I will add the following lines: > > > > BGP defines a mechanism as described in [RFC5575] that can be used to > > automate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such as what > > is required in order to mitigate DDoS attacks. DDoS mitigation provider > > for the attack target can detect sophisticated DDoS attacks > > using encrypted attack traffic, and can possibly use BGP flowspec > [RFC5575] to > > convey the filtering rules to filter block, or rate-limit DDoS attack > traffic originating > > from the ISP's subscribers to the attack target. > > > > > > Section 3.1 Procedure: > > > > I am not convinced this is the right approach to switch the roles > > between clients and servers. I believe that while the previous dots > > signal-channel was foreseeing the relation as asymmetric, we are now > > considering DOTS Client and DOTS Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one > > way to see this could be to have a DOTS communication between different > > entities, and exchanges can be in both directions. The one initiating > > the exchange could be designated as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving > > side is the DOTS Responder. > > > > Here is a more concrete example while Client / Server might be > > confusing. When a server sends an alert when under attach it is designat= ed > > as the DOTS Client, while the same client specifying these IP addresses > > are detected as belonging to an attacker will be the Server. > > > > It seems also to me that establishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent > > by any other peer, not necessarily the peer sending further > > notification/request. Typically the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS > > channel protected by (D)TLS, and the DOTS Server may re-use that exact > > same channel. > > > > I am also wondering if the support of the extension is agreed or > > announced. If so this would ease the negotiation of which peer is able > > to handle the requests and be a "Server". > > > > [TR] Both draft-reddy-dots-home-network and RFC8071 adopt the same > approach for managing roles and connections. You may want to look into > RFC8071. > > CoAP allows asynchronous messages but the request is always sent > by the CoAP client. > > > > I believe the clarification and comparison with the > > "traditional"/"initial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for > > clarification purpose. However, one should make sure also that such > > signalling can also be made with a signal dots signalling established in > > the initial use cases. Typically, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS > > channel and set a DTLS session which could carry the signalling of the > > draft. > > > > [TR] I don=E2=80=99t get the above comment. > > > > Cheers, > > -Tiru > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 PM Panwei (William) < > william.panwei@huawei.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I support adoption of this draft. > > Best Regards > Wei Pan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > Hi all, > > the chairs recently received an adoption request for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > > This message starts a two-week adoption call for > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04. > The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd. > > Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list > before this date. > If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you're > willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be > adopted, please explain why. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > --00000000000072b21e0587647767 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=C2=A0

Please find my com= ments inline. I believe my initial comment is addressed.=C2=A0 Igot confuse= d between the DOTS and DTLS Client.

Yours,=C2=A0
Daniel=C2=A0=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 9:13 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wr= ote:

Hi Tiru, Daniel,

=C2=A0

With regards to:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9C I believe that

the same mechanism could be dep= loyed between a DDoS target, its Cloud

provider major ISPs up to the o= rigin.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

This is not currently doable with= DOTS. Some key functional components are needed:

(1) To identify the appropriate I= SP which is hosting a DDoS source once a DDoS target has detected/reported = an attack to its DOTS server/provider. The target may not be on the same network as the source.

<mglt>I might be wrong, but it seems to me that when the = IP address is not spoof, you can relatively easily go back to the ISP of th= at IP address. (at least). Am I missing something ?</mglt>=C2=A0

(2) That ISP needs to expose a se= rvice to receive these notifications.

<mglt>Theoretically, you would need an mesh of ISP DOTS communicat= ions (for DTLS). but I imagine we could start with ISP you peer with or hav= e servers at the RIR level....</mglt>

=C2=A0

Of course, if the ISP is capable = of receiving these notifications, it can invoke the procedure in draft-redd= y-dots-home-network.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The scenario mentioned by Daniel = is an interesting problem to address=E2=80=A6but I=E2=80=99m afraid this is= out of scope of the current DOTS charter.

<mglt>In fact what I really wanted to point out was that at t= he target node. a DOT Client sends a message to the DMS. briefly re-reading= the draft I have the impression the DOTS client is on the ISP side. Only T= CP/DTLS client server are exchanged. This seems fine. I believe I misread t= his the first time.</mglt>=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t see how BGP Flows= pec solves this.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 18 avril 2019 14:52
=C3=80=C2=A0: Daniel Migault; Panwei (William)
Cc=C2=A0: = dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04

=C2=A0

Hi Daniel,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the review, Please s= ee inline [TR]

=C2=A0

From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Daniel Migault
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 9:34 PM
To: Panwei (William) <william.panwei@huawei.com>
Cc: dots-c= hairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-= 04

=C2=A0

CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz= e the sender and know the content is safe.

I support the adoption of the d= raft, please see my comments on the current version. None of them should be= considered as preventing the adoption.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Yours,=C2=A0

Daniel

=C2=A0

Some random comments:=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Section 1:=

=C2=A0

"""

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some of the DDoS a= ttacks like spoofed RST or FIN packets, Slowloris,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0and TLS re-negotia= tion are difficult to detect on the home network

=C2=A0 =C2=A0devices without ad= versely affecting its performance.=C2=A0 The reason is=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0typically home rou= ters have fast path to boost the throughput.=C2=A0 For=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0every new TCP/UDP = flow, only the first few packets are punted through

=C2=A0 =C2=A0the slow path.=C2= =A0 Hence, it is not possible to detect various DDoS

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacks in the slo= w path, since the attack payload is sent to the

=C2=A0 =C2=A0target server afte= r the flow is switched to fast path.=C2=A0 Deep packet=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0inspection (DPI) o= f all the packets of a flow would be able to detect

=C2=A0 =C2=A0some of the attack= s.=C2=A0 However, a full-fledged DPI to detect these

=C2=A0 =C2=A0type of DDoS attac= ks is functionally or operationally not possible

=C2=A0 =C2=A0for all the device= s attached to the home network owing to the memory

=C2=A0 =C2=A0and CPU limitation= s of the home routers.=C2=A0 Further, for certain DDoS=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attacks the abilit= y to distinguish legitimate traffic from attacker

=C2=A0 =C2=A0traffic on a per p= acket basis is complex.=C2=A0 This complexity originates

=C2=A0 =C2=A0from the fact that= the packet itself may look "legitimate" and no

=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack signature c= an be identified.=C2=A0 The anomaly can be identified<= /p>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0only after detaile= d statistical analysis.

"""

=C2=A0

I understand, the paragraph bel= ow as saying that detection at the ISP is

easier than at the homenet leve= l as the ISP aggregates the traffic. This

is correct and I agree with the= text. However, if we are going a bit

further, the detection is even = easier to the DDoS target. I believe that

the same mechanism could be dep= loyed between a DDoS target, its Cloud

provider major ISPs up to the o= rigin. The example of the Homenet and the

ISP is only one bound but the m= echanism can be generalized and actually

help coordination between indep= endent domains.=C2=A0 I believe the draft can

be placed in a larger perspecti= ve.

=C2=A0

[TR] Agreed, it is relatively e= asy for the DDoS mitigation provider for the attack target to detect sophis= ticated DDoS attacks (especially if the attack uses encrypted traffic).

=C2=A0

I will add the following lines:=

=C2=A0

BG= P defines a mechanism as described in [RFC5575] that can be used to<= u>

au= tomate inter-domain coordination of traffic filtering, such as what<= u>

is= required in order to mitigate DDoS attacks. DDoS mitigation provider

fo= r the attack target can detect sophisticated DDoS attacks

us= ing encrypted attack traffic, and can possibly use BGP flowspec [RFC5575] t= o

=C2=A0=C2=A0convey the filterin= g rules to filter block, or rate-limit DDoS attack traffic originating

=C2=A0=C2=A0from the ISP's = subscribers to the attack target.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Section 3.1 Procedure:

=C2=A0

I am not convinced this is the = right approach to switch the roles

between clients and servers. I = believe that while the previous dots

signal-channel was foreseeing t= he relation as asymmetric, we are now

considering DOTS Client and DOT= S Server as mostly symmetric. Maybe one

way to see this could be to hav= e a DOTS communication between different

entities, and exchanges can be = in both directions. The one initiating

the exchange could be designate= d as DOTS Initiator, while the receiving

side is the DOTS Responder.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Here is a more concrete example= while Client / Server=C2=A0 might be

confusing. When=C2=A0 a server = sends an alert when under attach it is designated

as the DOTS Client, while the s= ame client specifying these IP addresses

are detected as belonging to an= attacker will be the Server.

=C2=A0

It seems also to me that establ= ishment of the (D)TLS channel can be sent

by any other peer, not necessar= ily the peer sending further

notification/request. Typically= the DOTS Client may have set the DOTS

channel protected by (D)TLS, an= d the DOTS Server may re-use that exact

same channel.

=C2=A0

I am also wondering if the supp= ort of the extension is agreed or

announced. If so this would eas= e the negotiation of which peer is able

to handle the requests and be a= "Server".

=C2=A0

[TR] Both draft-reddy-dots-home= -network and RFC8071 adopt the same approach for managing roles and connect= ions. You may want to look into RFC8071.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0CoAP allows asynchronous messages but the request is alwa= ys sent by the CoAP client.

=C2=A0

I believe the clarification and= comparison with the

"traditional"/"i= nitial" DOTS use cases is useful and needs to stay for

clarification purpose. However,= one should make sure also that such

signalling can also be made wit= h a signal dots signalling established in

the initial use cases. Typicall= y, the DOTS client may have set the DOTS

channel and set a DTLS session = which could carry the signalling of the

draft.

=C2=A0

[TR] I don=E2=80=99t get the ab= ove comment.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

-Tiru

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:06 P= M Panwei (William) <william.panwei@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi,

I support adoption of this draft.

Best Regards
Wei Pan

-----Original Message-----
From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 11:29 PM
To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@i= etf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Subject: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04

Hi all,

the chairs recently received an adoption request for draft-reddy-dots-home-= network-04.

This message starts a two-week adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04.
The call ends up on Tuesday, April the 23rd.

Please send your opinion regarding adoption of this document to the list be= fore this date.
If you think the draft should be adopted, please indicate whether you'r= e willing to review it/to work on it. If you think the draft should not be = adopted, please explain why.

Regards,
Frank & Valery.


_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
--00000000000072b21e0587647767-- From nobody Thu Apr 25 18:03:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66C2120379; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gVlw6oYXvs_Q; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-f173.google.com (mail-lj1-f173.google.com [209.85.208.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D3F4120006; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f173.google.com with SMTP id p14so1330055ljg.5; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:03:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dNhnC4OQLceFdjLHpVaiJv51MAEfrpNk78Vjw3B3Cu0=; b=pNQFCpJwAblLUm4mpIgkotCH39n5UK8QRI2vOElCgXfc2nPIbJB9nOG5L99ZASw73o ZD6erfEzo/BtJ/g4y/IoXiwUy2EP4eG1zLnJ0LjdwpXWpmnWWyoU2rpBpycaHYQv4WO3 yNhG6gtGcq5lqRKvrv6ItoDNOmqtQokM2d3jkLfmnZ2hzSKdJMumbrWseeydPEOtGL/A v3kfJ2p5DzbTxKof1WvaA0vgmf0CUPF4YGoL4hPZSDlbXVxm8BU2EN3pXrTa0wMDjMw1 gQWDPzLcI+sJaB2jt8Rv5dopWDE+M/D+LpyOk7/fTNn/s7R3/fqUNnKekk8f05wqg3uW MPTA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXohwK7tMZoFhQptA0dydRha8dstzV9ZJ3Xdl33vvWfQSzF4jmC xrWC3f3MzN12rek6UI0Hglsoi8QqaS5V2QZNvnE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxi5RfrTJ8WmqTe8VidkitPbCf6+Zpq25B6hX44RWgUp+GIzUwWUNAqxN+/qEoP4LsPhwIAQkK0AtV7nvj+4xg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9e03:: with SMTP id e3mr742935ljk.180.1556240593471; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:03:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <019001d4fa5a$cf08fb60$6d1af220$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA648E7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649DB@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA64C46@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Daniel Migault Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c24b020587647f7c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 01:03:18 -0000 --000000000000c24b020587647f7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Works fine for me. Thanks for addressing this. I believe the text clarified what confused me in the beginning. Yours, Daniel On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 7:18 AM wrote: > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto: > TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 13:01 > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > Objet : RE: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:18 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-0= 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 08:13 > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org C= c : > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : RE: [Dots] Adoption cal= l > > > > for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:26 AM > > > > > To: Valery Smyslov ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for > > > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > click > > > > > links > > > > or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery > > > > > > Smyslov Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 24 avril 2019 07:02 =C3=80 : dot= s@ietf.org > Cc : > > > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet : Re: [Dots] Adoption > > > > > > call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption of the documen= t. > > > > > > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-submit it as WG > > draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of comments. > > > > > > 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NOT". This > combination is > > > not > > > > > > among the list of RFC requirement keywords (it is not list= ed > > neither > > > > > > in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). If the intent was to use RFC > > > > requirement > > > > > > language, then I'd suggest replacing it with one of MUST > NOT, > > > > > > SHALL NOT, > > > > > > SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please make it lowcase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Good catch. Fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > 2. When describing transport, the draft allows both TLS and DTL= S. > > What > > > > > > makes me confusing is that the draft describes it several > > > > > > times as "TCP/TLS or DTLS". > > > > > > Why TCP is ever mentioned here? We all know that TLS usual= ly > > > > > > runs > > > > over > > > > > > TCP (however we now have QUICK) and DTLS runs over UDP. > > > > > > The way it is presented in the draft makes me think that > > probably > > > > > > plain TCP is also allowed as a transport, but is seems to > > contradict > > > > > > everything I read about DOTS. Am I missing something here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Plain TCP is not allowed. The intent was to be explicit tha= t > > > > > there is > > > > a > > > > > reversal in both TCP and TLS layers, but as you rightfully raised > > > > > this may > > > > be > > > > > confusing since, for the DOTS case, it is trivial that the revers= al > > > > > of TLS > > > > roles > > > > > implies the reversal of TCP ones. > > > > > > > > RESTCONF call home only reverses the TCP role but not the TLS role. > In > > > > DOTS case, the server has to initiate DTLS handshake for UDP. To ke= ep > > > > the roles same for TCP, TLS handshake is also initiated by the > server. > > > > > > [Med] You missed "for the DOTS case" in my previous reply :-) > > > > > > We do have the following in the draft: > > > > > > DOTS DOTS > > > Server Client > > > | | > > > | 1. (D)TLS connection | > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > | 2. Mitigation request | > > > |<-----------------------------------| > > > | | > > > > > > That can be trivially expanded as follows for the TLS case: > > > > > > DOTS DOTS > > > Server Client > > > | | > > > | 1.1. TCP | > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > | 1.2. TLS | > > > |----------------------------------->| > > > | 2. Mitigation request | > > > |<-----------------------------------| > > > | | > > > > Okay. > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, the use of TCP/TLS is OK but it may be confusin= g > as > > > initially raised by Valery. > > > > The updated text is not accurate if TCP is not covered, role reversal a= t > TLS > > does not mean role reversal at TCP. > > [Med] The updated text is still fine (ref to Figure 1). We don't have any > ambiguity in the procedure part with regards to TCP. We explicitly say th= e > following: > > If TCP is used, the DOTS server begins by initiating a TCP > connection to the DOTS client. The DOTS client MUST support > accepting TCP connections on the IANA-assigned port number > defined in Section 4.1, but MAY be configured to listen to a > different port number. Using this TCP connection, the DOTS > server initiates a TLS connection to the DOTS client. > > > Similar to (D)TLS, I prefer explicit text to say role reversal at TCP. > > [Med] We already have such text (see the above excerpt). > > The > > security considerations section says " DOTS agents MUST authenticate ea= ch > > other using (D)TLS before a DOTS > > signal channel session is considered valid.", so clear text DOTS traffi= c > is > > ruled out. > > [Med] Fully agree. > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > --000000000000c24b020587647f7c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Works fine for me. Thanks for addressing this. I believe t= he text clarified what confused me in the beginning.
Yours,=C2=A0
Da= niel

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 7:18 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
Re-,

Please see inline.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=C2=A0: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfe= e.com]
> Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 13:01
> =C3=80=C2=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org
> Cc=C2=A0: do= ts-chairs@ietf.org; = kaduk@mit.edu
> Objet=C2=A0: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-networ= k-04
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:18 PM
> > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
> > <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Valery Smyslov
> > <valer= y@smyslov.net>; d= ots@ietf.org
> > Cc: dot= s-chairs@ietf.org; k= aduk@mit.edu
> > Subject: RE: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netwo= rk-04
> >
> >
> >
> > Re-,
> >
> > Please see inline.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De=C2=A0: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
> > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com]
> > > Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 08:13
> > > =C3=80=C2=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc=C2=A0:=
> > > do= ts-chairs@ietf.org; = kaduk@mit.edu Objet=C2=A0: RE: [Dots] Adoption call
> > > for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dots <dots-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:26 AM
> > > > To: Valery Smyslov <valery@smyslov.net>; dots@ietf.org
> > > > Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for
> > > > draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04
> > > >
> > > > This email originated from outside of the organization.= Do not click
> > > > links
> > > or
> > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and kn= ow the
> > > > content is safe.
> > > >
> > > > Re-,
> > > >
> > > > Please see inline.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Med
> > > >
> > > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > > De=C2=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Va= lery
> > > > > Smyslov Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mercredi 24 avril 2019 = 07:02 =C3=80=C2=A0: dots= @ietf.org Cc=C2=A0:
> > > > > dots-chairs@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu Objet=C2=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption
> > > > > call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > we received a lot of replies supporting adoption o= f the document.
> > > > > So, the document is adopted. Authors, please re-su= bmit it as WG
> draft.
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of comments.
> > > > > 1. The draft uses few times a keyword "MAY NO= T". This combination is
> > not
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 among the list of RFC requirem= ent keywords (it is not listed
> neither
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in RFC2119, nor in RFC8174). I= f the intent was to use RFC
> > > requirement
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 language, then I'd suggest= replacing it with one of MUST NOT,
> > > > > SHALL NOT,
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SHOULD NOT. Otherwise please m= ake it lowcase.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Med] Good catch. Fixed.
> > > >
> > > > > 2. When describing transport, the draft allows bot= h TLS and DTLS.
> What
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 makes me confusing is that the= draft describes it several
> > > > > times as "TCP/TLS or DTLS".
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Why TCP is ever mentioned here= ? We all know that TLS usually
> > > > > runs
> > > over
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TCP (however we now have QUICK= ) and DTLS runs over UDP.
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The way it is presented in the= draft makes me think that
> probably
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 plain TCP is also allowed as a= transport, but is seems to
> contradict
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 everything I read about DOTS. = Am I missing something here?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Med] Plain TCP is not allowed. The intent was to be ex= plicit that
> > > > there is
> > > a
> > > > reversal in both TCP and TLS layers, but as you rightfu= lly raised
> > > > this may
> > > be
> > > > confusing since, for the DOTS case, it is trivial that = the reversal
> > > > of TLS
> > > roles
> > > > implies the reversal of TCP ones.
> > >
> > > RESTCONF call home only reverses the TCP role but not the TL= S role. In
> > > DOTS case, the server has to initiate DTLS handshake for UDP= . To keep
> > > the roles same for TCP,=C2=A0 TLS handshake is also initiate= d by the server.
> >
> > [Med] You missed "for the DOTS case" in my previous rep= ly :-)
> >
> > We do have the following in the draft:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 DOTS=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOTS
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Server=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Client
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01. (D)TLS connection=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|----------------------------------->|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02. Mitigation request=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|<-----------------------------------|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> >
> > That can be trivially expanded as follows for the TLS case:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 DOTS=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOTS
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Server=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Client
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01.1. TCP=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|----------------------------------->|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01.2. TLS=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|----------------------------------->|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02. Mitigation request=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|<-----------------------------------|
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
>
> Okay.
>
> >
> >
> > As mentioned earlier, the use of TCP/TLS is OK but it may be conf= using as
> > initially raised by Valery.
>
> The updated text is not accurate if TCP is not covered, role reversal = at TLS
> does not mean role reversal at TCP.

[Med] The updated text is still fine (ref to Figure 1). We don't have a= ny ambiguity in the procedure part with regards to TCP. We explicitly say t= he following:=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If TCP is used, the DOTS server begins by initia= ting a TCP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0connection to the DOTS client.=C2=A0 The DOTS cl= ient MUST support
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0accepting TCP connections on the IANA-assigned p= ort number
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defined in Section 4.1, but MAY be configured to= listen to a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0different port number.=C2=A0 Using this TCP conn= ection, the DOTS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0server initiates a TLS connection to the DOTS cl= ient.

> Similar to (D)TLS, I prefer explicit text to say role reversal at TCP.=

[Med] We already have such text (see the above excerpt).

=C2=A0The
> security considerations section says " DOTS agents MUST authentic= ate each
> other using (D)TLS before a DOTS
> signal channel session is considered valid.", so clear text DOTS = traffic is
> ruled out.

[Med] Fully agree.

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
--000000000000c24b020587647f7c-- From nobody Thu Apr 25 22:52:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C58912016F for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 22:52:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.401 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eOAvI2e_4xdY for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 22:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1099120179 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 22:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44r3963JyRz8t0S; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:52:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.35]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44r3962Rg9z1xpC; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:52:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM6C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f58e:8e9d:ae18:b9e3%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:52:10 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7A= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:52:09 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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ID4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ID4g PiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+ ID4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+IERv dHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Thu Apr 25 23:16:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA0712016C; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lEL5thkr1swu; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 857911200BA; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44r3hh2GDVz8v76; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:16:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44r3hh1Jhqz2xCX; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:16:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::90fe:7dc1:fb15:a02b%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:16:04 +0200 From: To: Daniel Migault CC: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 Thread-Index: AQHU+8uBzl0p8A7r/kuIXBaGTxojuqZN6eVQ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 06:16:03 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66260@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66260OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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aWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gRG90cyBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4g RG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2Rv dHMNCg== From nobody Fri Apr 26 05:25:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061E8120091; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:25:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4oAvZENfLDHV; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-f178.google.com (mail-lj1-f178.google.com [209.85.208.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D3C4120045; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f178.google.com with SMTP id t10so1706614ljg.7; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aMlNtfzE6hB9AasH1i61gw50xxEsBx+8EH6iCBN00Ew=; b=o5IKPwbUVMuFbwgVV6H5ibsCUefbLCiB7ilXTwh2TbhI+vrSWjt9zJI1LK/UMX9Ptj FBVUaxMoJbAg1kTQBX77SDsHWyqvGkUe2FsQkY4H0u0lMS6RdbYhxDftURkUdsl4FeWz ET+EBKF5bM+gKNfJc2i5oH6TJonGiKwzL8kNlr9N+G/tDZHzOucoJybwWsLmgaMNdEfU QvQFjaYSNvW9zQUm/OccvKdLhjppNOfV7JM/lJknFalQbJu2pmHk8Vtsdh2jvoAH0Rvh VkjYgIx1Gupve9qg7s14NE1uFZJoEgzzbCAez16wYQpJ1x9qYL2BrmDlXNE+Af+Bn6x9 93OQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVKLtGxpW6yPxmgbkIf5MSlAJ3gjH20+IT5+2IF3SNK4WXl+xAK 6Y0IuhtPFu2cjtExR7oouf5OekVpXns/wNCcy5E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzrbkEin48dd4CxPyrPosShqbAE8UyoEcKJG8FPI6oqZ0a7ItOrWdpaf1HqsgqZqAwDvZjp4KXooEAcdS5+6Hs= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9753:: with SMTP id f19mr26118691ljj.54.1556281529586; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <023d01d4ee1f$c2bcb190$483614b0$@smyslov.net> <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A69F3A581@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA62879@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66260@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66260@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Daniel Migault Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:25:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "kaduk@mit.edu" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bdda4205876e07ff" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 12:25:35 -0000 --000000000000bdda4205876e07ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the response. Yours, Daniel On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:16 AM wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > > > Please see inline. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* Daniel Migault [mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com] > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 26 avril 2019 03:01 > *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > *Cc :* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy; dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov; > dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu > *Objet :* Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-04 > > > > Hi, > > > > Please find my comments inline. I believe my initial comment is > addressed. Igot confused between the DOTS and DTLS Client. > > > > Yours, > > Daniel > > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 9:13 AM wrote: > > Hi Tiru, Daniel, > > > > With regards to: > > > > =E2=80=9C I believe that > > the same mechanism could be deployed between a DDoS target, its Cloud > > provider major ISPs up to the origin.=E2=80=9D > > > > This is not currently doable with DOTS. Some key functional components ar= e > needed: > > (1) To identify the appropriate ISP which is hosting a DDoS source once a > DDoS target has detected/reported an attack to its DOTS server/provider. > The target may not be on the same network as the source. > > I might be wrong, but it seems to me that when the IP address is no= t > spoof, you can relatively easily go back to the ISP of that IP address. (= at > least). Am I missing something ? > > [Med] That=E2=80=99s a good starting point (assuming workarounds for some= issues > such as: registries are not always up to date due to secondary market and > so on.) > > > > (2) That ISP needs to expose a service to receive these notifications. > > Theoretically, you would need an mesh of ISP DOTS communications > (for DTLS). but I imagine we could start with ISP you peer with or have > servers at the RIR level.... > > [Med] That=E2=80=99s an option. A solution is missing in that space, IMO.= Such > solution would also be used, for example, by IP reputation systems which > currently add IP addresses to blacklists without even informing the ISPs. > If that information is made available using some dynamic means, appropria= te > actions can be enforced by ISPs rather than assigning a =E2=80=9Cpolluted= =E2=80=9D IP > address to customers who will experience a bad quality because of > restrictions induced by the reputation of the assigned IP address. We can > discuss this offline as this is not specific to DOTS. > > > > Of course, if the ISP is capable of receiving these notifications, it can > invoke the procedure in draft-reddy-dots-home-network. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > --000000000000bdda4205876e07ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the response.=C2=A0
Yours,=C2=A0
Daniel<= /div>

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:16 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

Hi Daniel,

=C2=A0

Please see inline.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: Daniel Migault [mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com]
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: vendredi 26 avril 2019 03:01
=C3=80=C2=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN
Cc=C2=A0: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy; dots-chairs@ietf.org; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org; kaduk@mit.edu
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [Dots] Adoption call for draft-reddy-dots-home-netw= ork-04

=C2=A0

Hi,=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Please find my comments inline. I believe my initial= comment is addressed.=C2=A0 Igot confused between the DOTS and DTLS Client= .

=C2=A0

Yours,=C2=A0

Daniel=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 9:13 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.= com> wrote:

Hi Tiru, Daniel,

=C2=A0

With regards to:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9C I believe that

the same mechanism could be dep= loyed between a DDoS target, its Cloud

provider major ISPs up to the o= rigin.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

This is not currently doable with= DOTS. Some key functional components are needed:

(1) To identify the appropriate I= SP which is hosting a DDoS source once a DDoS target has detected/reported an attack to its DOTS server/provider. The target may not be on the same n= etwork as the source.

<mglt>I might be wrong, but it seems to me tha= t when the IP address is not spoof, you can relatively easily go back to th= e ISP of that IP address. (at least). Am I missing something ?</mglt>= =C2=A0

[Med] That=E2=80=99s a good start= ing point (assuming workarounds for some issues such as: registries are not= always up to date due to secondary market and so on.)=

=C2=A0

(2) That ISP needs to expose a se= rvice to receive these notifications.

<mglt>Theoretically, you would need an mesh of= ISP DOTS communications (for DTLS). but I imagine we could start with ISP = you peer with or have servers at the RIR level....</mglt>

[Med] That=E2=80=99s an option. A= solution is missing in that space, IMO. Such solution would also be used, = for example, by IP reputation systems which currently add IP addresses to blacklists without even informing the ISPs. If that in= formation is made available using some dynamic means, appropriate actions c= an be enforced by ISPs rather than assigning a =E2=80=9Cpolluted=E2=80=9D I= P address to customers who will experience a bad quality because of restrictions induced by the reputation of the assigned = IP address. We can discuss this offline as this is not specific to DOTS.

=C2=A0

Of course, if the ISP is capable = of receiving these notifications, it can invoke the procedure in draft-reddy-dots-home-network.

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
--000000000000bdda4205876e07ff-- From nobody Fri Apr 26 06:08:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B151203A5 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 06:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.401 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pesq9Ii3RWzl for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 06:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E3271201DA for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 06:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44rDqv1fnCz5wvF; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 15:07:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.29]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44rDqv0Wbxz1xpP; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 15:07:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 15:07:54 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5g Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 13:07:54 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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(draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eA= Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:00:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: 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PiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+ IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4gPiBE b3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQo= From nobody Fri Apr 26 07:09:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2A81201D9; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:09:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155628774912.6895.6635183962026065763@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:09:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:09:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Call Home Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy Mohamed Boucadair Jon Shallow Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2019-04-26 Abstract: This document specifies the DOTS signal channel Call Home service, which enables a DOTS server to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS client, and to receive the attack traffic information from the DOTS client. The DOTS server in turn uses the attack traffic information to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDoS attack and takes appropriate mitigation action(s). The Call Home service is not specific to the home networks; the solution targets any deployment which requires to block DDoS attack traffic closer to the source(s) of a DDoS attack. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Apr 26 07:14:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B30E120145 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:14:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VSLG44un0Ms3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B05B12004B for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44rGJV3KtDz10pq for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:14:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.51]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44rGJV2y0XzDq7Y for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:14:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 26 Apr 2019 16:14:18 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHU/DmkmMzi0uaUzk+/77EsyH8GfqZOeuQg Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:14:17 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA665BE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155628774912.6895.6635183962026065763@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155628774912.6895.6635183962026065763@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:14:24 -0000 All, The new version implements the following changes:=20 * Integrate the comment from Daniel about the applicability of the proposal= .=20 * Fix two minor issues with the YANG module. * Add a reference architecture.=20 * Add text toe describe the behavior with regards to the source address val= idation and clarify how target-prefix is validated. * Some edits and fix nits.=20 Please review and share your comments. Feel free to open issues at https://= github.com/boucadair/dots-call-home.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 26 avril 2019 16:09 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IET= F. >=20 > Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signa= ling > (DOTS) Signal Channel Call Home > Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy > Mohamed Boucadair > Jon Shallow > Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2019-04-26 >=20 > Abstract: > This document specifies the DOTS signal channel Call Home service, > which enables a DOTS server to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS > client, and to receive the attack traffic information from the DOTS > client. The DOTS server in turn uses the attack traffic information > to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDoS > attack and takes appropriate mitigation action(s). >=20 > The Call Home service is not specific to the home networks; the > solution targets any deployment which requires to block DDoS attack > traffic closer to the source(s) of a DDoS attack. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-signal-call-home-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Sun Apr 28 23:36:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C39120074 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:36:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTU96R2aPwyn for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86207120072 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44sw175WdCz1yRV; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:36:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44sw174qgzzyQC; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:36:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::849f:f804:b713:d99a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:36:43 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eAAh04/QA== Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 06:36:43 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 06:36:48 -0000 SGkgVGlydSwgDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lLiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0t LS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVk ZHkgW21haWx0bzpUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOp wqA6IHZlbmRyZWRpIDI2IGF2cmlsIDIwMTkgMTY6MDENCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFt ZWQgVEdJL09MTjsgSm9uIFNoYWxsb3c7ICdrYW5hbWUgbmlzaGl6dWthJzsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9y Zw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBSRTogW0RvdHNdIChkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWZpbHRlci1j b250cm9sKSBBQ0wgU3RhdHMgaXNzdWUNCj4gDQo+ID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t LS0NCj4gPiBGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+ID4gPG1vaGFtZWQu Ym91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20+DQo+ID4gU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAyNiwgMjAxOSA2 OjM4IFBNDQo+ID4gVG86IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkNCj4gPiA8VGlydW1hbGVz d2FyUmVkZHlfS29uZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbT47IEpvbiBTaGFsbG93IDxzdXBqcHMtDQo+ID4gaWV0 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YXIgdmlzaWJpbGl0eSAodmlzaWJpbGl0eSBpcyBhIGNyaXRpY2FsDQo+IGNyaXRlcmlhIGluIE1J VFJFIGF0dGFjayBmcmFtZXdvcmsgaHR0cHM6Ly9hdHRhY2subWl0cmUub3JnLykuIA0K From nobody Mon Apr 29 01:53:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735DA1202F6 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 01:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUWiho9_kv6j 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Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CE31200E6 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLxnoso6kqz3 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7760E1200F8 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44szY83db5zCsFp; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:16:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.29]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44szY85mMbzDq7r; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:16:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:16:12 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eAAh04/QAAA/5ngAAUJIHA= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:16:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:16:16 -0000 KEZvY3VzaW5nIG9uIHRoaXMgcGFydGljdWxhciBwb2ludCkuDQoNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1lc3NhZ2Ug ZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeSBbbWFpbHRv OlRpcnVtYWxlc3dhclJlZGR5X0tvbmRhQE1jQWZlZS5jb21dDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogbHVuZGkg MjkgYXZyaWwgMjAxOSAxMDo1Mg0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9oYW1lZCBUR0kvT0xOOyBK b24gU2hhbGxvdzsgJ2thbmFtZSBuaXNoaXp1a2EnOyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6 IFJFOiBbRG90c10gKGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtZmlsdGVyLWNvbnRyb2wpIEFDTCBT dGF0cyBpc3N1ZQ0KPiANCj4gPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+ID4gIEFDTC1zcGVjaWZpYyBzdGF0cyBhbmQg bWl0aWdhdGlvbiBzdGF0cyB3aWxsIGdpdmUgYSBjbGVhcg0KPiA+ID4gPiA+IHBpY3R1cmUgb2Yg dGhlIHRyYWZmaWMgcmF0ZS1saW1pdGVkLCBiYWQgdHJhZmZpYyBkcm9wcGVkIGJ5IHRoZQ0KPiA+ ID4gPiA+IEREb1MgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBzeXN0ZW0sIGFuZCB1c2luZyB0aGVzZSBzdGF0cyB0aGUg RE9UUyBjbGllbnQgY2FuDQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gaGV1cmlzdGljYWxseSBkZXRlcm1pbmUgdGhlIGFt b3VudCBvZiBsZWdpdGltYXRlIHRyYWZmaWMgZHJvcHBlZA0KPiA+ID4gPiA+IGJlY2F1c2Ugb2Yg cmF0ZS1saW1pdCBhbmQgdGhlIGltcGFjdCBvZiB0aGUgYXR0YWNrIG9uIGl0cyBzZXJ2aWNlLg0K PiA+ID4gPg0KPiA+ID4gPiBbTWVkXSBUaGUgaW1wYWN0IGNhbiBiZSBvYnNlcnZlZCBsb2NhbGx5 IChlLmcuLCBiYWQgUW9TLCBpbmFiaWxpdHkNCj4gPiA+ID4gdG8NCj4gPiA+IGFjY2VzcyBhDQo+ ID4gPiA+IHNlcnZpY2UsIGluc3RhYmxlIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSwgZXRjLikuIEkgc3RpbGwgZG9u 4oCZdCBzZWUgaG93IHNoYXJpbmcNCj4gPiA+ID4gdGhlDQo+ID4gPiBBQ0wgc3RhdHMNCj4gPiA+ ID4gd2lsbCBiZSBoZWxwZnVsIGhlcmUuDQo+ID4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiA+IEEgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQg Y2FuIHByZWluc3RhbGwgdGhlIHNhbWUgcmF0ZS1saW1pdCBmaWx0ZXIgd2l0aCBidXQNCj4gPiA+ ID4gd2l0aA0KPiA+ID4gZGlmZmVyZW50DQo+ID4gPiA+IHBvbGljaWVzLiBJdCBjYW4gc2VsZWN0 IHRoZSBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBBQ0wgdG8gYWN0aXZhdGUvZGVhY3RpdmF0ZQ0KPiA+ID4gPiBiYXNl ZCBvbiBsb2NhbCBleHBlcmllbmNlLg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IEkgZG9uJ3QgZ2V0IGhvdyB0aGUg bG9jYWwgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSB3aWxsIGhlbHAgdGhlIGNsaWVudCBwaWNrIGFuDQo+ID4gPiBhbHRl cm5hdGUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBwcm92aWRlciB3aG8gY2FuIGhhbmRsZSB0aGUgYXR0YWNrIHNjYWxl Lg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gW01lZF0gTW9kZXJuIENQRXMgaW5jbHVkZSBhdXRvbWF0ZWQgZmVhdHVyZXMg dG8gYXNzZXNzIHRoZSBhdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkgb2YNCj4gPiBzZXJ2aWNlcyBzdWNoIGFzIFZvSVAs IElQVFYsIGV0Yy4gVGhlIERPVFMgY2xpZW50IGNhbiBiZSBmZWQgd2l0aCBpbnB1dA0KPiBmcm9t DQo+ID4gdGhlc2UgbW9kdWxlcyBhbmQgcmVhY3QgYWNjb3JkaW5nbHkuDQoNCltNZWRdIHMvY2xp ZW50L3NlcnZlci4NCg0KPiANCj4gSSBtZWFudCB0aGUgdGFyZ2V0IG5ldHdvcmsgY2Fubm90IGlu ZmVyIHRoZSBhbW91bnQgb2YgbGVnaXRpbWF0ZSB0cmFmZmljIChvcg0KPiBpbmZlciB0aGUgbnVt YmVyIG9mIHVzZXJzKSB1bmFibGUgdG8gdXNlIGl0cyBzZXJ2aWNlIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHJh dGUtDQo+IGxpbWl0IGFjdGlvbi4NCj4gDQoNCltNZWRdIFRoZSBhbW91bnQgb2YgdHJhZmZpYyBp cyBub3QgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gYXNzZXNzIHRoZSBhdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgIm5vbWluYWwiIHNl cnZpY2VzICh0aGUgZXhhbXBsZSBhYm92ZSkuIFdoYXQgaXMgcmVhbGx5IGltcG9ydGFudCBpcyB3 aGV0aGVyIHNvbWUgY3JpdGljYWwgc2VydmljZXMgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZS4gVGhhdCBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBjYW4gYmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5lZCB3aXRob3V0IG5lZWRpbmcgdGhlIEFDTCBzdGF0cy4NCg0K From nobody Mon Apr 29 02:23:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4BC1200C3 for ; 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Mon, 29 Apr 2019 03:22:08 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2567.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.177.226.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1835.12; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:22:06 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1835.010; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:22:06 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Jon Shallow , 'kaname nishizuka' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eAAh04/QAAA/5ngAAUJIHAAADrVQA== Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:22:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR16MB2567; H:BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: McAfee.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 2YKSQgZwgI4mMwZp162q3FyUJIhnTHNis5I5wa+0Kmz2vFVetOvD8l1ji2X3OUw7qUtf8NolZ1kb/YKywm/FSYTTSPlFGcZlza7d9eFdoMS0nW+BpSO0/+t6o+Ns/Hg2hiwQQ5V9joy/glnTX/PE1LBbLESJoz6iyZWjCpiukHPLMH/4hBAjrn7VkE5f1qW+IJXMn1HyEkUoq7NbBwxvIHlWbagV3t8bC4YteVxvLAjekSIaWNybZ4Vu2XLukunkUiMS8X+DWtQ9HvppRFd8dvBBpNl39gMVVjBURixzcVSI7vxqEVrB6ExFxenMRmnTXoH8H3lL5DQ/ki48jyEE7Esjyh4Now8c8VctGJ7FI5rXlDWqQX/T/NXsXiW9Qv8923V2cP7baGPBn5LOJbvgMHDHA33Ow/oHnSZfU1CKEmk= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 192a4425-9860-4f08-b67e-08d6cc842621 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Apr 2019 09:22:06.5976 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR16MB2567 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6534> : inlines <7062> : streams <1820054> : uri <2838418> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jiQYdVSqD5Cr for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 957AA12001B for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 02:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hL2m1-0003ar-M3; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:40:33 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , "kaname nishizuka" , References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.c orporate.adroo t.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:40:33 +0100 Message-ID: <03f901d4fe6f$98f00a00$cad01e00$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJQEGP+1iseERi2OTPcLXp1W/83ywIpkhMbAavtnMUChxPz1wD32vTSASwkWbADAaBxcAEHrc8OAf+TrikBMzqEGAE6ytM+AexiOccBac8EEQHsepgcAihEijwBhMPb9KSNgRhw Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:40:41 -0000 Hi, See inline, Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, = Tirumaleswar Reddy > Sent: 29 April 2019 10:22 > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Jon Shallow; 'kaname nishizuka'; > dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats = issue >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 2:46 PM > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > ; > > Jon Shallow ; 'kaname nishizuka' > > ; dots@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL = Stats issue > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click = links or > open > > attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is = safe. > > > > (Focusing on this particular point). > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 29 avril 2019 10:52 > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Jon Shallow; 'kaname = nishizuka'; > > > dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ACL-specific stats and mitigation stats will give a clear > > > > > > > picture of the traffic rate-limited, bad traffic dropped = by > > > > > > > the DDoS mitigation system, and using these stats the DOTS > > > > > > > client can heuristically determine the amount of = legitimate > > > > > > > traffic dropped because of rate-limit and the impact of = the attack > on its > > service. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The impact can be observed locally (e.g., bad QoS, > > > > > > inability to > > > > > access a > > > > > > service, instable connectivity, etc.). I still don=E2=80=99t = see how > > > > > > sharing the > > > > > ACL stats > > > > > > will be helpful here. > > > > > > > > > > > > A DOTS client can preinstall the same rate-limit filter with = but > > > > > > with > > > > > different > > > > > > policies. It can select the appropriate ACL to > > > > > > activate/deactivate based on local experience. > > > > > > > > > > I don't get how the local experience will help the client pick = an > > > > > alternate mitigation provider who can handle the attack scale. > > > > > > > > [Med] Modern CPEs include automated features to assess the > > > > availability of services such as VoIP, IPTV, etc. The DOTS = client > > > > can be fed with input > > > from > > > > these modules and react accordingly. > > > > [Med] s/client/server. Is this correct? > > > > > > > > I meant the target network cannot infer the amount of legitimate > > > traffic (or infer the number of users) unable to use its service > > > because of the rate- limit action. > > > > > > > [Med] The amount of traffic is not required to assess the = availability of > > "nominal" services (the example above). What is really important is > whether > > some critical services are available. That information can be = determined > without > > needing the ACL stats. >=20 > I am not referring to "nominal" services or critical resources. For = instance, > consider Netflix is not accessible to a large number > of users because of the rate-limit action. The DOTS server will have a limited (only because they have to be = previously defined) set of (possibly inactivated) ACLS on the server. = If the "standard" white/black list are unable to bring the inbound pipe = back to not being flooded, then a (likely global for the DOTS client's = networks) Rate-Limit ACL must be brought in. Once the Inbound pipe is = available, then analysis of the data reaching the DOTs client will show = the top users which then need their own limiting (black or rate-limit) = ACL set up over the data channel. At this point the Rate-Limit ACL can = removed to see if things are stable again. [I agree that the CPE may not have this top usage capability] If Netflix (or similar) has a priority when under attack, then this = needs to be added into a White ACL which can be done once the inbound = pipe is not flooded (or be a part of the standard white lists) ~jon >=20 > -Tiru >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Apr 29 03:18:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032E9120094 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 03:18:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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cGFibGUgb2YgaGFuZGxpbmcgdGhlIGF0dGFjayAoZS5nLiBLcmVicyB3YXMgaW5pdGlhbGx5IHVz aW5nIEFrYW1haSBhbmQgZXZlbnR1YWxseSBnb3QgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IEdvb2dsZSB0byBoYW5k bGUgdGhlIG1hc3NpdmUgYXR0YWNrKS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KLVRpcnUNCg0KPiANCj4gfmpvbg0K PiANCj4gPg0KPiA+IC1UaXJ1DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRm Lm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0KDQo= From nobody Mon Apr 29 04:34:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16CC1202FF for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 04:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] 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([fe80::74f6:8fc8:b1b8:dbba%22]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:34:44 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eAAh04/QAAA/5ngAAUJIHAAADrVQAAAy9qAAADPe0AAAl2uEA== Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6725D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroo t.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <03f901d4fe6f$98f00a00$cad01e00$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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cm90ZWN0ZWQgYnkgR29vZ2xlIHRvIGhhbmRsZSB0aGUNCj4gbWFzc2l2ZSBhdHRhY2spLg0KPiAN Cj4gQ2hlZXJzLA0KPiAtVGlydQ0KPiANCj4gPg0KPiA+IH5qb24NCj4gPg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+ IC1UaXJ1DQo+ID4gPg0KPiA+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3Jn DQo+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg0K From nobody Mon Apr 29 05:47:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839B512012A for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 05:47:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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Cj4gPg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IH5qb24NCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiA+IC1UaXJ1DQo+ ID4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQo+ID4gPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gPiA+IERvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gPiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Apr 29 05:56:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1E61202D9 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 05:56:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nutWom6mdbAs for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 05:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42D40120025 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 05:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44t4Rn5cW1zBsPl; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:56:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.20]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44t4Rn4vrxzBrLS; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:56:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA1.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:56:53 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Jon Shallow" , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue Thread-Index: AdT6ZmI8uG0f606MQBW+/9uvcTWn6QA3ueOAAAD5v4AAAuISAAACLWCwAASh2bAAAFNQMAAALZggAB/gx7AADZnDQAAB9k5gAAGY4eAAh04/QAAA/5ngAAUJIHAAADrVQAAAy9qAAADPe0AAAl2uEAADFwxAAACGwAA= Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:56:52 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6736E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012601d4fb49$3328c000$997a4000$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6591A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA65AD6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6623D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6649C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroo t.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <03f901d4fe6f$98f00a00$cad01e00$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6725D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:56:58 -0000 VGlydSwgDQoNCkxvb2tzIGxpa2UgYSBjYW5kaWRhdGUgaXRlbSBpbiBhIHNlcGFyYXRlIERPVFMg dGVsZW1ldHJ5IHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gSS1ELCByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiByZXN0cmljdGluZyBpdCB0 byB0aGUgZmlsdGVyIGNvbnRyb2wgY2FzZS4gDQoNCkhvcGUgdGhpcyBpcyBPSyB3aXRoIHlvdS4g DQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKg OiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5IFttYWlsdG86VGlydW1hbGVzd2FyUmVkZHlfS29u ZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBsdW5kaSAyOSBhdnJpbCAyMDE5IDE0OjQ3DQo+ IMOAwqA6IEJPVUNBREFJUiBNb2hhbWVkIFRHSS9PTE47IEpvbiBTaGFsbG93OyBrYW5hbWUgbmlz aGl6dWthOyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJFOiBbRG90c10gKGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt ZG90cy1zaWduYWwtZmlsdGVyLWNvbnRyb2wpIEFDTCBTdGF0cyBpc3N1ZQ0KPiANCj4gPiAtLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiA+IEZyb206IG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5n ZS5jb20NCj4gPiA8bW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbT4NCj4gPiBTZW50OiBNb25k 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4g PiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gPiA+ ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg0K From nobody Tue Apr 30 07:24:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE69120075 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 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[IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id C90CD759005; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 23:24:28 +0900 (JST) To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Jon Shallow , "dots@ietf.org" References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA649B4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA66FEC@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroo t.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA67156@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <03f901d4fe6f$98f00a00$cad01e00$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6725D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA6736E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 23:24:28 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: guri.nttv6.jp; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kaname@nttv6.jp Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:24:34 -0000 Hi, > Looks like a candidate item in a separate DOTS telemetry specification I-D, rather than restricting it to the filter control case. I agree with this. At the usecase(2) that Tiru raised, per ACL traffic counter would be useful but it's not limited to the ACLs activated by signal-filter-control. "activate-when-mitigating" ACL related information is one of the example. It can be decoupled with the resources created by a signal-filter-control. I'm in favor of this Jon's comment because it clarifies the original behavior of a signal-filter-control. > The DOTS server will have a limited (only because they have to be previously defined) set of (possibly inactivated) ACLS on the server.  If the "standard" white/black list are unable to bring the inbound pipe back to not being flooded, then a (likely global for the DOTS client's networks) Rate-Limit ACL must be brought in.  Once the Inbound pipe is available, then analysis of the data reaching the DOTs client will show the top users which then need their own limiting (black or rate-limit) ACL set up over the data channel.  At this point the Rate-Limit ACL can removed to see if things are stable again. I'd like to check the new DOTS telemetry specification I-D and see if a reference from the signal-filter-control is needed. regards, Kaname On 2019/04/29 21:58, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >> >> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 6:27 PM >> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >> ; Jon Shallow > ietf@jpshallow.com>; kaname nishizuka ; dots@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue >> >> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or >> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is >> safe. >> >> Tiru, >> >> Looks like a candidate item in a separate DOTS telemetry specification I-D, >> rather than restricting it to the filter control case. >> >> Hope this is OK with you. > Yes, works for me. > > -Tiru > >> Cheers, >> Med >> >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>> [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] >>> Envoyé : lundi 29 avril 2019 14:47 >>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Jon Shallow; kaname nishizuka; >>> dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: [Dots] >>> (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 5:05 PM >>>> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>> ; Jon Shallow >>> ietf@jpshallow.com>; kaname nishizuka ; >>>> dots@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL >>>> Stats issue >>>> >>>> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click >>>> links >>> or >>>> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the >>>> content is safe. >>>> >>>> Tiru, >>>> >>>> I agree that we are approaching the problem with two different use cases: >>>> >>>> (1) a client domain with is basically "consuming" services. I do >>>> still >>> think this >>>> use case does not need to learn about the ACL stats. >>> Yes. >>> >>>> (2) your case in which the client domain is "providing" services: I >>>> still >>> think >>>> that the impact on business can be determined also using local >>>> information (known patterns + rate-limit policy applied by the >>>> client). If the goal is >>> to >>>> decide whether/when an alternate mitigator is to be solicited, this >>>> can deterministically rely upon "status" set to 4 (Attack has >>>> exceeded the mitigation provider capacity) or deactivate back the >>>> rate-limit ACL + local observation. Please remember that local >>>> observation is needed for efficacy update. >>> "Attack has exceeded" status message does not convey the details the >>> traffic rate-limited, and the client needs to understand the attack >>> scale to figure out suitable alternate mitigation provider. It is a >>> critical DOTS telemetry that needs to be conveyed in the signal >>> channel and cannot be propagated in the data channel during an massive >> attack. >>> Cheers, >>> -Tiru >>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Med >>>> >>>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>>> De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>>> [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] >>>>> Envoyé : lundi 29 avril 2019 12:18 À : Jon Shallow; BOUCADAIR >>>>> Mohamed TGI/OLN; kaname nishizuka; dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: >>>>> [Dots] >>>>> (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Jon Shallow >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 3:11 PM >>>>>> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>>>> ; >>>>>> mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; kaname nishizuka >>>> ; >>>>>> dots@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL >>>>>> Stats issue >>>>>> >>>>>> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not >>>>>> click links >>>>> or >>>>>> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the >>>>>> content is safe. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> See inline, >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Jon >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, >>>>>>> Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>>>>> Sent: 29 April 2019 10:22 >>>>>>> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Jon Shallow; 'kaname >>>>>>> nishizuka'; dots@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) >>>>>>> ACL Stats issue >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 2:46 PM >>>>>>>> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>>>>> ; >>>>>>>> Jon Shallow ; 'kaname nishizuka' >>>>>>>> ; dots@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Dots] (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) >>>>>>>> ACL Stats issue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do >>>>>>>> not click links or >>>>>>> open >>>>>>>> attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the >>>>>>>> content is >>>>>> safe. >>>>>>>> (Focusing on this particular point). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >>>>>>>>> [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] >>>>>>>>> Envoyé : lundi 29 avril 2019 10:52 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed >>>>>>>>> TGI/OLN; Jon Shallow; 'kaname nishizuka'; dots@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Objet >>>>>>>>> : RE: [Dots] >>>>>>>>> (draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control) ACL Stats issue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ACL-specific stats and mitigation stats will give a >>>>>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>>>>>> picture of the traffic rate-limited, bad traffic >>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped by the DDoS mitigation system, and using >>>>>>>>>>>>> these stats the DOTS client can heuristically >>>>>>>>>>>>> determine the amount of legitimate traffic dropped >>>>>>>>>>>>> because of rate-limit and the impact of the attack >>>>>>> on its >>>>>>>> service. >>>>>>>>>>>> [Med] The impact can be observed locally (e.g., bad >>>>>>>>>>>> QoS, inability to >>>>>>>>>>> access a >>>>>>>>>>>> service, instable connectivity, etc.). I still don’t >>>>>>>>>>>> see how sharing the >>>>>>>>>>> ACL stats >>>>>>>>>>>> will be helpful here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A DOTS client can preinstall the same rate-limit >>>>>>>>>>>> filter with but with >>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>> policies. It can select the appropriate ACL to >>>>>>>>>>>> activate/deactivate based on local experience. >>>>>>>>>>> I don't get how the local experience will help the >>>>>>>>>>> client pick an alternate mitigation provider who can >>>>>>>>>>> handle the >>> attack >>>> scale. >>>>>>>>>> [Med] Modern CPEs include automated features to assess >>>>>>>>>> the availability of services such as VoIP, IPTV, etc. >>>>>>>>>> The DOTS client can be fed with input >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> these modules and react accordingly. >>>>>>>> [Med] s/client/server. >>>>>> Is this correct? >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I meant the target network cannot infer the amount of >>>>>>>>> legitimate traffic (or infer the number of users) unable >>>>>>>>> to use its service because of the rate- limit action. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [Med] The amount of traffic is not required to assess the >>>>>>>> availability of "nominal" services (the example above). What >>>>>>>> is really important is >>>>>>> whether >>>>>>>> some critical services are available. That information can >>>>>>>> be determined >>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> needing the ACL stats. >>>>>>> I am not referring to "nominal" services or critical resources. >>>>>>> For instance, consider Netflix is not accessible to a large >>>>>>> number of users because of the rate-limit action. >>>>>> The DOTS server will have a limited (only because they have to >>>>>> be >>>>> previously >>>>>> defined) set of (possibly inactivated) ACLS on the server. If >>>>>> the >>>>> "standard" >>>>>> white/black list are unable to bring the inbound pipe back to >>>>>> not being flooded, then a (likely global for the DOTS client's >>>>>> networks) Rate-Limit >>>>> ACL >>>>>> must be brought in. Once the Inbound pipe is available, then >>>>>> analysis of >>>>> the >>>>>> data reaching the DOTs client will show the top users which then >>>>>> need their own limiting (black or rate-limit) ACL set up over >>>>>> the data channel. At >>>>> this >>>>>> point the Rate-Limit ACL can removed to see if things are stable again. >>>>>> [I agree that the CPE may not have this top usage capability] >>>>>> >>>>>> If Netflix (or similar) has a priority when under attack, then >>>>>> this needs >>>>> to be >>>>>> added into a White ACL which can be done once the inbound pipe >>>>>> is not flooded (or be a part of the standard white lists) >>>>> I think we are discussing two different use cases. My attack use >>>>> case is Netflix content provider is under volumetric DDoS attack, >>>>> and if the rate- limit ACL is configured using the DOTS signal >>>>> channel because the DDoS mitigation provider cannot handle all the >>>>> attack traffic. The rate-limit ACL stats will help Netflix >>>>> understand the scale of the attack, impact on the current business >>>>> because of the rate-limit action (e.g. based on the amount of >>>>> traffic dropped by DMS, infer the amount of good traffic dropped >>>>> by the rate-limit ACL action, and infer the number of users who >>>>> cannot access its service), and if the attack lasts for several >>>>> days/weeks help identify an alternate mitigation provider capable >>>>> of handling the attack (e.g. Krebs was initially using Akamai and >>>>> eventually got protected by Google to handle >>> the >>>> massive attack). >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> -Tiru >>>>> >>>>>> ~jon >>>>>> >>>>>>> -Tiru >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Dots mailing list >>>>>>> Dots@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Apr 30 10:20:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7BE1202CE; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <155664484466.7664.13847528298882927424.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:20:44 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:20:45 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A few minor items: (1) Typos: Section 3: s/signalling/signaling/ Section 4.4.1: s/implictily/implicitly/ (2) Section 7.1, Per “The DOTS client additionally uses [RFC6125] validation techniques to compare the domain name with the certificate provided”, this sentence appears to be missing a RFC2119 word – should it read something like “Additionally, the DOTS client MUST use [RFC6125] validation …”? From nobody Tue Apr 30 20:06:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A29B12004C; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 20:06:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Suresh Krishnan via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Suresh Krishnan Message-ID: <155668001610.28771.2924259500369474716.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 20:06:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 03:06:56 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This should be easy to clear up, but I would like to understand why this document needs to restate the motivation and describe the algorithm for happy eyeballs instead of simply stating that hosts should use RFC8305 and then specify that UDP must be tried before TCP in each of the address families. If you do want to specify the whole algorithm here it needs to be more specific than "in a manner similar to the Happy Eyeballs mechanism" as it is not clear where it is similar (and where it will differ). It also looks like the example flow in Figure 4 is not consistent with the description before (TCP+IPv6 before UDP+IPv4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 7.3 This text is wrong and needs to be removed "IP packets whose size does not exceed 576 bytes should never need to be fragmented" RFC791 only requires all hosts to be prepared to accept datagrams of up to 576 octets. 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Wed, 1 May 2019 00:08:21 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2455.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.177.227.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1835.13; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:08:20 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4873:7200:9e57:9e62%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1835.018; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:08:20 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: Roman Danyliw , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHU/3kiFl//VDvg/keiKCYpDOjorqZVyKlg Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 06:08:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <155664484466.7664.13847528298882927424.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155664484466.7664.13847528298882927424.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 06:08:43 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBEb3RzIDxkb3RzLWJvdW5jZXNA aWV0Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBSb21hbiBEYW55bGl3IHZpYQ0KPiBEYXRhdHJhY2tlcg0K PiBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAzMCwgMjAxOSAxMDo1MSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogVGhlIElFU0cg PGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IENjOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNoYW5uZWxAaWV0 Zi5vcmc7IGZyYW5rLnhpYWxpYW5nQGh1YXdlaS5jb207DQo+IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRvdHMt Y2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFtEb3RzXSBSb21hbiBEYW55bGl3J3MgTm8gT2Jq ZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtDQo+IGNoYW5uZWwtMzE6ICh3aXRoIENP TU1FTlQpDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFJvbWFuIERhbnlsaXcgaGFzIGVudGVyZWQgdGhlIGZvbGxv d2luZyBiYWxsb3QgcG9zaXRpb24gZm9yDQo+IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtY2hhbm5l bC0zMTogTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uDQo+IA0KPiBXaGVuIHJlc3BvbmRpbmcsIHBsZWFzZSBrZWVwIHRo ZSBzdWJqZWN0IGxpbmUgaW50YWN0IGFuZCByZXBseSB0byBhbGwgZW1haWwNCj4gYWRkcmVzc2Vz IGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBUbyBhbmQgQ0MgbGluZXMuIChGZWVsIGZyZWUgdG8gY3V0IHRoaXMg aW50cm9kdWN0b3J5DQo+IHBhcmFncmFwaCwgaG93ZXZlci4pDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHJl ZmVyIHRvIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2llc2cvc3RhdGVtZW50L2Rpc2N1c3MtY3JpdGVy aWEuaHRtbA0KPiBmb3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCBJRVNHIERJU0NVU1MgYW5kIENP TU1FTlQgcG9zaXRpb25zLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCwgYWxvbmcgd2l0aCBvdGhl ciBiYWxsb3QgcG9zaXRpb25zLCBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgaGVyZToNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJh Y2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jaGFubmVsLw0KPiANCj4g DQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+IENPTU1FTlQ6DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+ IEEgZmV3IG1pbm9yIGl0ZW1zOg0KPiANCj4gKDEpIFR5cG9zOg0KPiANCj4gU2VjdGlvbiAzOiBz L3NpZ25hbGxpbmcvc2lnbmFsaW5nLw0KPiBTZWN0aW9uIDQuNC4xOiBzL2ltcGxpY3RpbHkvaW1w bGljaXRseS8NCj4gDQo+ICgyKSBTZWN0aW9uIDcuMSwgUGVyIOKAnFRoZSBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBh ZGRpdGlvbmFsbHkgdXNlcyBbUkZDNjEyNV0gdmFsaWRhdGlvbg0KPiB0ZWNobmlxdWVzIHRvIGNv bXBhcmUgdGhlIGRvbWFpbiBuYW1lIHdpdGggdGhlIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIHByb3ZpZGVk4oCdLCB0 aGlzDQo+IHNlbnRlbmNlIGFwcGVhcnMgdG8gYmUgbWlzc2luZyBhIFJGQzIxMTkgd29yZCDigJMg c2hvdWxkIGl0IHJlYWQgc29tZXRoaW5nDQo+IGxpa2Ug4oCcQWRkaXRpb25hbGx5LCB0aGUgRE9U UyBjbGllbnQgTVVTVCB1c2UgW1JGQzYxMjVdIHZhbGlkYXRpb24g4oCm4oCdPw0KDQpUaGFua3Mg Um9tYW4sIHdpbGwgZml4IGJvdGggaXNzdWVzLg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQotVGlydQ0KDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90 cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg==