From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 1 01:03:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA29527 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:03:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D47202C3; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0FB203A0; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:03:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FED4203A0 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6DF202C3 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:02:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4337789810 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:02:50 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <41FF1B47.2060307@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200501312044.PAA18629@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200501312044.PAA18629@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-urien-eap-smartcard-07.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:01:43 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : EAP-Support in Smartcard > Author(s) : P. Urien, et al. > Filename : draft-urien-eap-smartcard-07.txt > Pages : 49 > Date : 2005-1-31 > > This document describes the interface to the EAP protocol in > smartcards, which may store multiple identities associated to EAP > methods and appropriate credentials. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-07.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From diameter-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 1 05:02:23 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09058 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:02:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689C02044B for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:02:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C475020418 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:01:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 05:01:59 -0500 Message-ID: <20050201100159.11629.85258.Mailman@xavier> Subject: frascone.com mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@wolverine.cnri.reston.va.us To: eap-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: diameter-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: diameter-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: diameter@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your frascone.com mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, eap-request@frascone.com) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@wolverine. Thanks! Passwords for eap-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- eap@frascone.com ohweow http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/options/eap/eap-archive%40lists.ietf.org From Mcconnell@graffiti.net Tue Feb 1 07:30:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA23886; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:30:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502011230.HAA23886@ietf.org> Received: from [221.158.204.148] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvxSb-0008NI-Jf; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 07:48:52 -0500 Received: from [212.88.97.240] by alternate%DIGITS.disparage.221.158.204.148 via HTTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:31:28 -0800 Reply-To: "netscape.net" From: "netscape.net" To: Subject: Hi,, me again Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:31:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--1881703903lsez6415" X-Spam-Score: 5.3 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 ----1881703903lsez6415 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-%DIGITS%LCVALUES%DIGITS%DIGITS%LCVALUES" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wanted to interest you in keeping me some company. My Sack of shit husband=20 is on a business trip for the next 2 months, an= d I hate being lonely. To contact me please go here: http://godatetonight.com/d/1.php Sincerely Yours, Elizabeth g ----1881703903lsez6415-- From oconnor@caths.co.uk Tue Feb 1 08:59:08 2005 Received: from caths69.com (acceso125.broadred.net [217.172.65.125]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA03499 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:59:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502011359.IAA03499@ietf.org> From: LIOUDMILA OCONNOR To: eap-archive@ietf.org Reply-To: lioudmila.lioumila@gmx.net Subject: ATTENTION!!! CAN YOU BE HONEST? Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 02:59:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="128625aa-73f1-11d9-8947-006067903c18" This is a multi-part message in MIME format --128625aa-73f1-11d9-8947-006067903c18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From:1002 Lausanne Switzerland Dear Friend. 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Due to the sensitive nature of my job, I need a foreigner to HELP claim the funds. All that is required is for you to provide me with your details for processing of the necessary legal and administrative claim documents for transfer of the funds to you, to this regard, you are expected to fill out a text form. I will pay all required fees to ensure that the fund is transferred to a secured, numbered account in your name, where you will be capable of accessing the funds and gradually transfering to your country and other banks of choice in the world. THERE IS NO RISK INVOLVED. You can find additional information about unclaimed funds through the internet at the following websites: www.swissbankclaims.com http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9902/09/germany.holocaust/ www.wiesenthal.com The Holocaust Claims Processing Office has put funds in Escrow awaiting submission of valid claims for necessary disbursement. I find myself priviledged to have this information and this may be a great opportunity for a life time of success without risks. Due to confidential reasons, reply via email only. You may reply to me securely through this email address (lioudmila.lioumila@gmx.net) I await your urgent response to this proposal via my email address. Thank you for your prompt response. My Regards kimaeva Lioudmila ****PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL***** this e-mail and any attached files are = confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, copying, = distribution, or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender = immediately and then delete this e-mail. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be = secure or error free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. 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Accounting From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 4 13:31:13 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21792 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBBB204DA; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FAF202E1; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:31:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14A8202E1 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.58]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A09A9202A9 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j14IUfOc025789; Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:30:41 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Clancy X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Another review of draft-clancy-eap-pax-01.txt In-Reply-To: <41DE73BC.2010503@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <41DE73BC.2010503@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:28:36 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Jari Arkko wrote: > I'm working on the official expert review of your spec. This review is > not ready yet, but in the meantime I do have some early comments and > questions: Sorry for the response delay. I'm trying to get version 02 put together before IETF 62, and am finally looking over the comments. >> SID >> EAP server NAI [RFC2486] > > I am not sure whether this is appropriate. We generally do not use > NAIs for server side identification; there may be issues here that > no one has thought of. Or maybe not. The use of NAIs for SIDs works > nicely in peer-to-peer situation. In any case some discussion > about this usage would be useful. The provable security requires these hashes include the server's identity, and it should somehow be verfiably the same as the CN specified in the certificate. Also, there should be something in the certificate that indicates AAA authority over a domain. How does this work in EAP-TLS? In an organization that signs user and host keys, what prevents me from using my valid user key with matching domain to spoof a AAA server? I think that for a AAA server managing multiple domains, this would be disambiguated by the EAP-Identity/Response message. It would have to include an @DOMAIN in order for the server to validate the client credentials anyway. > There seems to be a number of modes in the protocol. I wonder if you > could combine the modes that do require a cert into just one, which > would provide both key update and identity protection? Or is the > interest in avoiding PK computations on some authentications the reason > for the additional mode? Basically you have the following modes: STD w/ cert: provisioning STD w/o cert: insecure provisioning, regular authentication IDP w/ cert: identity protection (regular and provisioning) I could eleminate "STD with certificate". Plus you'd get the bonus of identity protection (though you'd probably already have leaked it in the EAP-Response/Identity). > What specific verifications regarding certificates need to be performed? > For instance, are there some requirements regarding the SID and > certificate name comparisons? Which identifier is the one that matters, > by the way? (E.g., is shown to the user.) Is there a requirement to > compare the EAP Identity Response contents in some manner to CID or the > certificate? Or perhaps only the domain part. Etc. The CID should match the EAP-Response/Identity modulo the AP-added decorations. The SID should match the certificate CN. These are things I will address in v02. > Perhaps I do not understand the role of the sequence number well > enough. It seems like EAP identifier already covers the matching-not > matching response case. What additional value does the sequence > number field give here? I would understand this better if the server > kept a global or long-term sequence number counter, but you say that > its initialized to 0 "for each transaction", presumably meaning each > EAP protocol run. I think you are right. Even a running counter wouldn't do much to stop a replay attack. The goal was to prevent an attacker from sending forged PAX-ACK packets. These are sent as the second client response in PAX_STD and in response to fragments in PAX_STD-1 and PAX_IDP-1. Of course, the CK hasn't yet been generated by PAX_*-1, so there is no integrity protection. The numbers could be easily changed by an attacker. I'll remove this field. >> executed, the server-side certificate is required. Without using >> some form of authenticated public-key cryptography, identity >> protection with forward secrecy is theoretically impossible. > > Just out of curiosity, is there a reference that states this? Well you end up with the basic paradox of needing to know the username to figure out which key to use to decrypt the username. There are some ways to *kind* of get around the problem by providing partial information to the server about the client, but that same partial information is also provided to an attacker. It's probably best to just remove that claim. >> EAP-PAX does not explicitly include any channel binding. > > As far as I can see, the method's non-AVP format does not lend > itself easily for extensions, such as channel bindings. This would > make it hard to implement draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth on top > of PAX. Or how would you do it, by adding a new flag? But how would > the peers be able to skip the unrecognized AVP? Personally, I'd like > to see binding features in PAX, preferably in a general form that does > not make channel information in PAX completely separate from the > channel information in other methods... Hmm... the goal was to keep PAX as simple as possible and still meet the "EAP Method Requirements for Wireless LANs". What do others on the list think about this? >> Two of the biggest challenges in an enterprise WiFi network is key >> provisioning and support for multiple devices. Consequently, it is >> recommended that the client's NAI have the format username/KID@realm, >> where KID is a key ID that can be used to distinguish between >> different devices. > > Hmm... I wonder if the users need to be burdened with this. Presumably > the peers already have a lot of information about the specific devices > that are in use (e.g. MAC address), so why would additional information > be needed in the NAI? I suppose username+MAC would uniquely identify users in every situation you can think of off the top of your head. I'm sure there would be cases where that might be insufficient though. These are just some implementaiton suggestions. How appropriate would they even be for a standards-track draft? >> Provisioning could easily be accomplished by issuing a customer a >> 4-digit PIN they could type into their phone's keypad. > > Does this mean that if I know you have been assigned a NAI > charles@example.com but you have not yet used it, I need to run > > 0.5 * 10,000 = 5,000 > > authentication runs, on the average, to the server before hitting > a value that the server recognizes as valid? And from there on > *I*, not you, own the generated key which is used for subsequent > authentication? Yes. Should I include text on preventing online dictionary attacks? It seems like a fairly obvious security practice. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From kgcunty@o2.pl Sat Feb 5 01:41:24 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19328; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 01:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from p5076-ipad33akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp ([60.37.136.76]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxJw9-0008Hw-Fe; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 02:00:59 -0500 Received: from symphony-22.iinet.net.au ([44.54.162.72]:1906 "HELO mail.ies.edu") by ies.edu with SMTP id ; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 05:34:18 -0100 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:33:18 +0300 Message-Id: <5.8.07.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> From: "Emile Strong" To: Subject: Its for him and for her. 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mP8ALTNKQS2y2Aw/QEGigfUSHsoCbekeqvrUs/vqXKNv5aE4/wByb/x0NPooUgiHZQWv5WPWb1v8 IfB56SdRYTIAT0shy/U+DE2oSQLeUYKdtri16vLclzi3STtoECgiKWcmwVRck+alZdMdNE1jzNRw YHwfa/QpZPeczayQYmNfZx/q9o/zqEGjhSCIdlAFH6v8TLNop0tvaNgPly1xRsp8oIrGkMIJljcM thfA3DUFOinc9Mcbt9VaSJPd+pjVv6s0UkaDzsy0xns0pUhBcBQbYZu1QGq1aRDfy0Ln4sxipfzP O1rL94+VT6kPL+vWXQ6SLT+WNAG+N+u3+P8A/9k= ------------A48356845382213-- From tammh@chartertn.net Sat Feb 5 13:00:14 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17885; Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxUXD-0004X7-Ke; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:19:56 -0500 Received: from morristown-68-118-89-12.chartertn.net ([68.118.89.12]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CxUE3-0000Mm-Ax; Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:00:14 -0500 Received: from mail.chartertn.net by morristown-68-118-89-12.chartertn.net 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1Cxvkl-0008WP-Ku; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:23:45 -0500 Received: from tfhjtj3.milehigh.net (228.34.97.43) by m269-bd.milehigh.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 07 Feb 2005 03:00:28 +0400 Received: from kaddishm86 (respiratory134.166.102.216) by milehigh.net (uwlty3) with SMTP id <611255s00050k> (Authid: SidneyCalvert); Mon, 07 Feb 2005 03:06:28 +0400 From: "OEM INC" To: "'Iesg-admin'" Subject: WHOLE.SALE SOFTWARE - Autodesk, Corel, XP, Adobe - Iesg-admin wy 6 iq Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:06:28 +0300 Message-ID: <007kbc988qj185$9yuu20cca919$524z15zu@flauntcm7625> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--sdxyfzkc814845102742zsdlnf" X-Spam-Score: 6.9 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 ----sdxyfzkc814845102742zsdlnf Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Find lots of cheap software in our site, http://choirmaster.fnaiegfmfm.com/?5k7GDmB6aFcuTB5bridgewater The popular programs 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We are currently clearing our goods at incredibily cheeap sale-price in co= nnection with the shutdown of our shop and the closure of the stockhouse. = Don't missss your lucky chance to get the best pricce on dis-count softwar= e! http://choirmaster.fnaiegfmfm.com/?5k7GDmB6aFcuTB5bridgewater Regards Sidney Calvert http://choirmaster.fnaiegfmfm.com/?5k7GDmB6aFcuTB5bridgewater no thanks: http://bfijdeacghkl.comcities.info/go.php?egjkbdxyclzafhim ------------------------ ferret oncology crabmeat e raze marvel melinda epidermis throb condemnator= y presence tarantara screenplay flashlight parkway fetid accordion session= bugaboo endicott prestigious metalloid acclaim ntis codomain delphinus be= bop radioactive relish kennan cartographic who'd simultaneity nabisco bellow savonarola iceland barbara casino stippl= e cookie cayenne seaman monk regression schlesinger badminton exert headboard macaque axolotl daffy plebeian pictorial flub curate crest= view cataract dingy also eke disc ed glom prey divisor newfound coo blutwu= rst o'er honduras sloven wehr hermosa suzuki petrology barnabas gruesome i= nterest purine singe aviary catchup cornwall cotoneaster anorthosite cerem= ony kohlrabi marjorie journeymen angelica incapacity curse blum cost concord buddhism episcopate sidecar embodiment vacant trunk scum adaptation woodhen hanford stubble pervasion shaft incomprehensible b= edimmed breakpoint wesley chrome natchez hibernia elephant dichotomize lip= ton intimate damp discriminable einstein votive gaines castanet copperhead cabot puck richfi= eld blackbody rescind seance misery blend cupidity smudge meltdown depressant cosmic transpacific tetrafluoride bottom rutlan= d calkins nate renaissance den cinematic monument fig mulligan manservant = grotesque revolutionary electroencephalogram respondent hamburg monroe eni= d perform ditty abed derail sensor transceiver bivalve cypress chisholm sl= ob tucson dole advice alai synergy mound recessive steprelation geraldine effluent possessive declarator wind= shield mend spread lefty dogfish snowflake burrow bootes cameo rototill so= ra iota dusky coy douce brent anyhow preliminary drew sinew armadillo defi= nition controversial farmhouse reflexive escadrille mudd fishy proscribe c= ovalent camaraderie whittle holeable hangman debater dignify chateau conse= quent advocate astronaut eardrum vivacious apply mexican paraphrase shinbone sheffield skulk arrear deleterious alexandre b= ilk eileen sarasota keller arcadia compelling constance balm feminist thro= wback enzyme claudio biometry galenite budweiser demure peru playboy withs= tood bisque theta camelopard firestone sperm=20 ----sdxyfzkc814845102742zsdlnf-- From osqbhbjkkeomkw@nol.net Sun Feb 6 18:53:58 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10493; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:53:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502062353.SAA10493@ietf.org> Received: from adsl-65-68-21-237.dsl.ltrkar.swbell.net ([65.68.21.237]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CxwXH-0000uG-3i; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:13:56 -0500 Received: from LNLLN-SC72 (65.68.21.237) by 65.68.21.237; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:57:18 -0800 From: "St. Regina Clinic" To: eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org, geopriv@ietf.org Subject: Phermacy you wish Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:57:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0WE_08E0285LD_05B.920B05L0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: EQFL Mail v7.4 X-Spam-Score: 15.5 (+++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: e3ebaaff3b3539efaf29ef65eea2aded This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0WE_08E0285LD_05B.920B05L0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00HP_02V3029VT_08N.630F41G0" ------=0_00HP_02V3029VT_08N.630F41G0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://tvmvmdh182.fdnchxjdyrt.com/ When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. The quality of the moment is more important than the number of our days. If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. Hatch a dream and then believe it. The best proof of love is trust. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. When love is not madness, it is not love. Give me a wo man who loves beer and I will conquer the world. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare necessity. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? Love is life. And if you miss love, you miss life. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words become superfluous. Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of being. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well, therefore to this day. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Hope is like a road in the country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into existence. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Sp ecialization is for insects. Love takes up where knowledge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. All love shifts and changes. I don't know if you can be wholeheartedly in love all the time. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. Love takes up where knowledge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. The quality of the moment is more important than the number of our days. Hatch a dream and then believe it. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well, therefore to this day. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years i n a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. Compassion alone stands apart from the continuous traffic between good and evil proceeding within us. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separate you from friends... If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you already there? Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. Memory is a child walking along a seashore. You never can tell what small pebble it will pick up and store away among its treasured things. Who so loves believes the impossible. Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. The best proof of love is trust. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ------=0_00HP_02V3029VT_08N.630F41G0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D"" When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall= asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we = go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! The man who says I= told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly i= n the first place. The quality of the moment is more important than the nu= mber of our days. If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant= ; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so w= elcome. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the = morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. A woman drove me= to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Love is the imm= ortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal go= al is life. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by = force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the = need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies c= annot stand. The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as pla= ying a poor hand well. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live wi= thout and know we cannot live within. Life is a waste of time, time is a w= aste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life= Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls a= nd looks like work. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the y= ears. Hatch a dream and then believe it. The best proof of love is trust. = A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher= a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, b= uild a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, coop= erate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, pr= ogram a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Spe= cialization is for insects. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gav= e up reading. When love is not madness, it is not love. Give me a woman wh= o loves beer and I will conquer the world. Who would give a law to lovers?= Love is unto itself a higher law. All right, Brain, I don't like you and = you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing yo= u with beer. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare necessi= ty. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. 24 hours in a day,= 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? Love is life. And if you miss love, you = miss life. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than = problems to solve. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop spe= ech when words become superfluous. Treat people as if they were what they = ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of being. Y= esterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived makes eve= ry yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Lo= ok well, therefore to this day. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't eve= n have the decency to thank her. Always remember that I have taken more ou= t of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Hope is like a road in the = country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road= comes into existence. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought t= o aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. When a friend= is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do.= Think up something appropriate and do it. No dictator, no invader, can ho= ld an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater = power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, gover= nments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. A human being should be able t= o change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a b= uilding, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfo= rt the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equati= ons, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty= meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Lo= ve takes up where knowledge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul = inhabiting two bodies. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it = is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. I feel sorry for= people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good = as they're going to feel all day. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste= of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. A = kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. An intelligent m= an is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. Programmi= ng today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and= better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger an= d better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. The problem with the wor= ld is that everyone is a few drinks behind. A woman knows the face of the = man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. Distance between two hearts = is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love c= an be. All love shifts and changes. I don't know if you can be wholehearte= dly in love all the time. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It i= s all within yourself, in your way of thinking. Love takes up where knowle= dge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies. I= feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, = that's as good as they're going to feel all day. The quality of the moment= is more important than the number of our days. Hatch a dream and then bel= ieve it. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived= makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision o= f hope. Look well, therefore to this day. You can widen your life by yours= elf, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a fri= endship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many = to properly take care of. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for tw= o thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon = being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line tha= t seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is n= ot different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have fa= r-reaching consequences. The great thing about a computer notebook is that= no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. E= verything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderati= on is for monks. True friendship comes when the silence between two people= is comfortable. Compassion alone stands apart from the continuous traffic= between good and evil proceeding within us. The Babylon project was our l= ast, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow w= ar it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The ye= ar is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles= truly separate you from friends... If you want to be with someone you lov= e, aren't you already there? Opportunity is missed by most people because = it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. You can widen your life by = yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes = a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too = many to properly take care of. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. Wh= en they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel al= l day. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. L= ife's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to hel= p you discover who you are. Memory is a child walking along a seashore. Yo= u never can tell what small pebble it will pick up and store away among it= s treasured things. Who so loves believes the impossible. Distance between= two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong= true love can be. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing = up children; now I have six children and no theories. Before I got married= I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children an= d no theories. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a m= an of value. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citiz= ens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Begi= n doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have on= ly this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowf= lake. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little = order, will lose both and deserve neither. The Babylon project was our las= t, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war= it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year= is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Give me a woman who loves beer and I will c= onquer the world. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing u= p children; now I have six children and no theories. When I read about the= evils of drinking, I gave up reading. The man who says I told you so is m= aking an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place= I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of a= ttitude. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of = value. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol = has taken out of me. The best proof of love is trust. Never doubt that a s= mall group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. 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vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379f t7nr2/fr9vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379ft7nr2/fr9vc9e379cOHtNbGtsWZD/63+6xof5HajDt ZeCvz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+evz1+em/wAfm1Z+DOv/ 2Q== ------=0WE_08E0285LD_05B.920B05L0-- From npvdt.GGYAQ@gdsys.net Sun Feb 6 23:50:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA01102; Sun, 6 Feb 2005 23:50:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [220.122.197.26] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cy1AB-0006JO-Vp; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from mundo63.greendragon.net (220.122.197.26) by 220.122.197.26 with Microsoft SMTP44806(1[1-2.3595.732.85); Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:41:15 -0500 Received: from 220.122.197.26 (dune[220.122.197.26]) by chambers571.greendragon.net (yrg15) with SMTP id <6234zojd155qd>;Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: "howie stan" From: "howie stan" To: ietf-request@ietf.org Cc: secretary@ietf.org, meeting-planning@ietf.org, ietf-languages@ietf.org, pr-wg@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, tsvwg-request@ietf.org, usic-admin@ietf.org, policy@ietf.org Subject: Read: You are approved Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:49:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--61652_08307865.cIr35" X-Spam-Score: 9.8 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 ----61652_08307865.cIr35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello Account #6213180, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest mort[g]age rate. 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To get a free, no obligation consultation please visit: http://gunar.wexvd.info:443/azwmlagainst Regards, howie stan, Account Manager JNM Associates Inc. r*mv. -> http://helgelan.wexvd.info:443/index.php ----61652_08307865.cIr35-- From ygnntjeoxypJefferson@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de Mon Feb 7 02:21:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA00171 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 02:21:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502070721.CAA00171@ietf.org> Received: from c-24-12-53-121.client.comcast.net ([24.12.53.121]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cy3Wv-0000f6-H4 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:41:58 -0500 X-Message-Info: 37AduYO785YKUEFPFB4wGEXmeELP40zkX1hNCmuTGH1C7RS27F Received: from ceramium.ygnntjeoxypJefferson@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (j9349F.ecsD08826A7795F9.svp-o.feg.ygnntjeoxypJefferson@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de [19.32.180.27]) by ambulantbestir.ygnntjeoxypJefferson@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de id OSRA38AA82A; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:16:56 -0600 [confiscatoryHost SMTP Relay 34.E9] Reply-To: "Daryl vexation" From: "Daryl vexation" To: "Eap-archive" Subject: News: This is for real Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 05:13:56 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="--44C0F4E12FAFAE0E9D" X-Spam-Score: 7.6 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab ----44C0F4E12FAFAE0E9D Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-4153-0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable n

 

 

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it is only dependent on users In non-modern terms Sony wishes to expand the entertainment industry by in= troducing robots In cyberculture in general and especially when we come face to face=20 educated Palm's letter describing the capture runs thus:=96"Herewith I send your Ex= cellency, contrary to all expectation (since long ago I offered more than = a hundred ducats to the natives for an Orang-Utan of four or five feet hig= h) an Orang which I heard of this morning about eight o'clock. For a long = time we did our best to take the frightful beast alive in the dense forest= about half way to Landak. We forgot even to eat, so anxious were we not t= o let him escape; but it was necessary to take care that he did not reveng= e himself, as he kept continually breaking off heavy pieces of wood and gr= een branches, and dashing them at us. This game lasted till four o'clock i= n the afternoon, when we determined to shoot him; in which I succeeded ver= y well, and indeed better than I ever shot from a boat before; for the bul= let went just into the side of his chest, so that he was not much damaged.= We got him into the prow still living, and bound him fast, and next morni= ng he died of his wounds. All Pontiana came on board to see him when we ar= rived." Palm gives his height from the head to the heel as 49 inches. even though it still is with difficulties "with questions such as; ""why were they [simulations] written" ----44C0F4E12FAFAE0E9D-- From GIKXBNYUJGO@fuse.net Mon Feb 7 12:36:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22017; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CyD7p-0006JS-3T; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:56:41 -0500 Received: from [220.189.249.178] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CyCoK-0000mC-2k; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:36:33 -0500 X-Message-Info: UCLpgE787daPPSlbbDdfJXZrMJmqh5 Received: from acetate-dns.adelphia.com (242.25.252.48) by fn686-r72.adelphia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:28:18 +0200 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:36:18 -0200 (CST) Message-Id: <204928237163.inx3CabeZAC578@buckskin39.amoral64adelphia.com> To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Julia Stiles already has a rolax! Get yours! bluebill From: Linwood Kent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--695xs9790bloket9265" X-Spam-Score: 15.8 (+++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ----695xs9790bloket9265 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi!
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hBpEUbVs6ZOosshvTOVKbkSo0ztPXSKwEIukRupXAWUXhxsI6caFpkQoCWA72E9TChZZFZASwnVt 6mFB07pBkRsos1tJJljBx9eE7YiuKFQOF0z3svtVoc64YOC8kgjtriNbTUTJPe/uo3XRCSIOePrw 7IpbcBUXJV6esk+ugQi6lyaDPqMHtFBFbTBLErILE76cQo4mnURPs5RjQtmDD8STMz6aNxoBbdWt 0XV9Yatn80eqi7ous+0NX90eqkbSq+LBBA8J5hjn48uMadld2K/FnT+7l9NdzLmjkHD3d6d3x9fR XTX4/D1R7emY7a/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcr9 H3K/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcr9H3K/R9yv0fcocLha9mnTPqr//Z ------------A78705401054634-- From adyaumanladc@eircom.net Wed Feb 9 05:24:36 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA17443; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 05:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CypLD-0003T8-Bj; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 05:45:05 -0500 Received: from h-68-166-130-90.lsanca54.covad.net ([68.166.130.90]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Cyp1P-0004HT-BA; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 05:24:35 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dacca controlled allyl brett. cyanate chairwomen adorn cardiology. conformation blight coalesce bartok brown. blight chartreuse botany chelate corrosion antietam. brevity cagey allemand. ----864mtj7913anybodyn351-- From Devineinxr@msgto.com Wed Feb 9 08:02:27 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27422; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:02:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:02:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502091302.IAA27422@ietf.org> Received: from [195.120.145.249] (helo=SRV-GRS) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cyrnt-0006Px-5C; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:22:56 -0500 Received: from nwcmortgage.com ([213.130.63.235]) by nag.youpy.fr (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 606-361-656 license 0bc879zg7780j7gn9n3oac3701p3zps3) with ESMTP id <11523658538329.EYGF1109.nag.youpy.fr> for ; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 06:02:05 -0700 From: "Richard Teague" To: "Tsfitrpsec" Subject: Rich woman looking for true love Sender: "Richard Teague" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:03:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID:




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dense contusionskindive exhibit cowhideanarchic noise arrogateburdock frequent adiabaticcoolant annotate recitalservant beatify champlainthread cessna impeccablerebellion allude bandittempestuous librarian connivancescrewdriver From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 9 11:09:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13734 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:09:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3878320277; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:09:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF25204A4; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:09:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F90204A4 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr (revol2.enst.fr [137.194.2.14]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA2120277 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:08:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787F4553 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:08:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (revol2.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91785-04 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:08:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from infres.enst.fr (infres-192.enst.fr [137.194.192.1]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE052110 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:08:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from DELL.enst.fr (dhcp47-11.infradio.enst.fr [137.194.47.11]) by infres.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF86D2F46 for ; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:08:34 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050209165340.03297868@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: urien@infres.enst.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at enst.fr X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] OpenEAPSmartcard Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:08:34 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi everyboby, OpenEAPsmartcard is an open initiative, see http://www.infres.enst.fr/~urien/openeapsmartcard/ which provides an implementation (javacard source codes, tools ,...) of the draft http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-07.txt Three EAP types are supported - EAP-MD5 - EAP-TLS (RFC 2716) -EAP-PSK (draft-bersani-eap-psk-06.txt) This environment is still experimental and open to comments Regards Pascal Urien _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From aexoqocfmy@stealth.net Wed Feb 9 17:36:23 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06703; Wed, 9 Feb 2005 17:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cz0lU-0001gW-Ci; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:56:59 -0500 Received: from user-0vvd9pi.cable.mindspring.com ([63.246.167.50]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Cz0RN-0002Zr-JW; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:36:10 -0500 Received: from QXRUN-SV03 (63.246.167.50) by 63.246.167.50; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:35:32 -0800 From: "St. Alfred Ospital" To: asrg-announce-admin@ietf.org, asrg-request@ietf.org, avt-admin@ietf.org, avt-request@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bridge-mib@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Enjoy excellent pricing on quality medicines Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:35:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0VR_04V0774VF_00U.935Y39V0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: MNEI Mailer v1.3.4 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 82b297dca242a35ee50ccecf5bf2e37f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0VR_04V0774VF_00U.935Y39V0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00LV_07Z0259IM_00O.039R61X0" ------=0_00LV_07Z0259IM_00O.039R61X0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://hsthbwqccl182.hcvkkpdoir.com/d// Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Hatch a dream and then believe it. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. If you find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are. Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or from the meeting of your sparks. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. If you find a path with no obstacles, it probably does n't lead anywhere. If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, g ive orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. No elected body is the country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or from the meeting of your sparks. Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separate you from friends... If you want to be wi th someone you love, aren't you already there? A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. Hope is like a road in the country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into existence. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Who so loves believes the impossible. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? Who so loves believes the impossible. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. Who so loves believes the impossible. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compared to what lies within us. Iron rusts from d isuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. ------=0_00LV_07Z0259IM_00O.039R61X0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D"" Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, ext= ends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. Begin doing what you want to= do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparklin= g like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Time is never wast= ed when you're wasted all the time. You can't be a real country unless you= have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football = team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Hatc= h a dream and then believe it. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of= life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. Compa= ssion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the mos= t poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. When a friend is in troub= le, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do. Think up so= mething appropriate and do it. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even= have the decency to thank her. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, t= han a frontal lobotomy. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abs= tains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. What the world really nee= ds is more love and less paper work. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for sn= ow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. A = happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather= a person with a certain set of attitudes. I discovered I always have choi= ces and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. I feel sorry for people = who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they'= re going to feel all day. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave = up reading. Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done,= and why. Then do it. If you find a path with no obstacles, it probably do= esn't lead anywhere. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privile= ge but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itsel= f. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to ke= ep your mouth shut. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan = an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet,= balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take order= s, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new probl= em, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently= , die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Treat everyone with polite= ness, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but becau= se you are. Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denyi= ng himself a pleasure. The only time you run out of chances is when you st= op taking them. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drink= s behind. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? Love takes o= ff masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live withi= n. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we ca= nnot live within. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege = but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. = When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from = the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whethe= r the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or f= rom the meeting of your sparks. Friends are as companions on a journey, wh= o ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. The = problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. I'd rather= have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. Nothing splendid h= as ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something ins= ide them was superior to circumstances. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a c= ase. Coincidence? The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for n= ot expressing his position clearly in the first place. Too often we give o= ur children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. If you find= a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. If you ever = reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot o= ut your nose. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydroge= n and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital in= gredient in beer. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by = another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have reki= ndled this light. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity = and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of= the mind. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dar= ed believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. The p= roblem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. The great t= hing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into i= t, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. Those who are willing to sacrifice es= sential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. = I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning,= that's as good as they're going to feel all day. Sometimes our light goes= out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepe= st thanks to those who have rekindled this light. A happy person is not a = person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certa= in set of attitudes. The great thing about television is that if something= important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always cha= nge the channel. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's onl= y a choice of attitude. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes i= t's only a choice of attitude. The ultimate measure of a man is not where = he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in ti= mes of challenge and controversy. A human being should be able to change a= diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, w= rite a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dyi= ng, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analy= ze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fig= ht efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. I do not fea= r computers. I fear the lack of them. Try not to become a man of success b= ut rather to become a man of value. Programming today is a race between so= ftware engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs,= and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the = Universe is winning. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. L= ove is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more r= eliable than a man. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purit= y and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor = of the mind. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an inva= sion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balanc= e accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give= orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pit= ch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die g= allantly. Specialization is for insects. Blessed is the man who, having no= thing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. Nothing = splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that som= ething inside them was superior to circumstances. No elected body is the c= ountry, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way as l= ong as we care to keep it so. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only = a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize w= ith itself. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation= comes from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to= her; whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, fr= om her, or from the meeting of your sparks. Love is the beauty of the soul= Can miles truly separate you from friends... If you want to be with some= one you love, aren't you already there? A woman drove me to drink and I di= dn't even have the decency to thank her. Solitude, if rightly used, become= s not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to f= raternize with itself. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, e= njoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for i= t. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Your living = is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude yo= u bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your min= d looks at what happens. Too often we give our children answers to remembe= r rather than problems to solve. Hope is like a road in the country: there= was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into ex= istence. Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know= we cannot live within. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is= dressed in overalls and looks like work. Who so loves believes the imposs= ible. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? Who so = loves believes the impossible. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtfu= l, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing t= hat ever has. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in mome= nts of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge = and controversy. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and= without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Change i= s inevitable, except from vending machines. Sometimes our light goes out b= ut is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest tha= nks to those who have rekindled this light. If we had no winter, the sprin= g would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, pr= osperity would not be so welcome. Who so loves believes the impossible. Wh= at lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compared= to what lies within us. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its = purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the v= igor of the mind. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the dec= ency to thank her. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one = activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls.= The great thing about television is that if something important happens a= nywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. A p= ositive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enoug= h people to make it worth the effort. Always remember that I have taken mo= re out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. The problem with the w= orld is that everyone is a few drinks behind. Why is it drug addicts and c= omputer afficionados are both called users? A woman knows the face of the = man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. A woman drove me to drink an= d I didn't even have the decency to thank her. No dictator, no invader, ca= n hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no grea= ter power in the universe than the need for freedom. 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ieprep-request@ietf.org, ietf-request@ietf.org, secretary@ietf.org, meeting-planning@ietf.org, ietf-languages@ietf.org, pr-wg@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, tsvwg-request@ietf.org, usic-admin@ietf.org Subject: The Results of Your Application Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:46:42 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--99905_854253.eC32" X-Spam-Score: 6.8 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 ----99905_854253.eC32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello Account #5518351, Your application was approved. 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This isn't something I'm interested in recieving - http://wowhealth.info/fgh.php ----Part_YRLIfd6X6.iJGhxDPqFK5-- From sepxxofzxcm@mcleodusa.com Fri Feb 11 13:39:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23979; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:39:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502111839.NAA23979@ietf.org> Received: from [202.96.192.155] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Czg1Z-0006Cu-EL; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:00:46 -0500 Received: from UOOAZ-DW51 (202.96.192.155) by 202.96.192.155; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:39:01 -0800 From: "St. Dennis Clinic" To: avt-admin@ietf.org, avt-request@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bridge-mib@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org Subject: New Pharmacy, Best Deals Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:39:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0EZ_04C0737CD_09Z.040L42O0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: VPHMO Mailer v1.2.1 X-Spam-Score: 24.8 (++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 1e47b908cbd1247f22e7953a41f1c4c6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0EZ_04C0737CD_09Z.040L42O0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00EC_06F9779BR_06N.986H65C0" ------=0_00EC_06F9779BR_06N.986H65C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://gmktka.bbklfmnd.info/?l7TJTtmmVpYzQllndyblpdnawh A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. When love is not madness, it is not love. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the ab ysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare necessity. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. Hope is like a road in the country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into existence. When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, ba lance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compared to what lies within us. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words become superfluous. Love is the energy of the soul. Love is what heals the personality. There is nothing that cannot be healed by love. There is nothing but love. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way yo ur mind looks at what happens. The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. Books are the shoes with which we tread the footsteps of great minds. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. If you find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. Hatch a dream and then believe it. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well, therefore to this day. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. No elected body is the country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. ------=0_00EC_06F9779BR_06N.986H65C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D= A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the de= cency to thank her. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol = than alcohol has taken out of me. Friends are as companions on a journey, = who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. Yo= u can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Dri= nking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gi= ves me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. Programming today is = a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idio= t-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idi= ots. So far, the Universe is winning. A kiss makes the heart young again a= nd wipes out the years. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up= reading. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It fai= led. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our= last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Re= duce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and= the labors of life reduce themselves. You can't be a real country unless = you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a footba= ll team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. V= ery little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in y= our way of thinking. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a= higher law. When love is not madness, it is not love. Change is inevitabl= e, except from vending machines. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemic= als such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to mak= e water, a vital ingredient in beer. Beer is proof that God loves us and w= ants us to be happy. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to = aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. A book may lie = dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of= a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses = that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone= In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: = whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. Beer is proof th= at God loves us and wants us to be happy. Autumn is the time when seasons = merge because of bare necessity. Programming today is a race between softw= are engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, an= d the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Uni= verse is winning. A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circu= mstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes. Change is i= nevitable, except from vending machines. Nothing splendid has ever been ac= hieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was su= perior to circumstances. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because i= t is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Solitude, if r= ightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superfic= ial soul fears to fraternize with itself. All right, Brain, I don't like y= ou and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to kil= ling you with beer. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so g= et wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. Hope is like a r= oad in the country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on i= t, the road comes into existence. When we drink, we get drunk. When we get= drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we com= mit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! Who= would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. What contem= ptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? Begin doing what you wan= t to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, spar= kling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. A human being = should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a= shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, s= et a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alo= ne, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a comput= er, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is= for insects. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small = matters compared to what lies within us. Reduce the complexity of life by = eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce them= selves. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. Love d= oes not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, = love is a war; love is a growing up. The game of life is not so much in ho= lding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. No dictator, no invader, ca= n hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no grea= ter power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, g= overnments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The ultimate measure of a = man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but wher= e he stands in times of challenge and controversy. A positive attitude wil= l not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it = worth the effort. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up readi= ng. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expe= ctation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Touch is the most fun= damental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and lon= g after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever cease= s to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs.= A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words bec= ome superfluous. Love is the energy of the soul. Love is what heals the pe= rsonality. There is nothing that cannot be healed by love. There is nothin= g but love. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to y= ou as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to yo= u as by the way your mind looks at what happens. The great thing about a c= omputer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't = get bigger or heavier. Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer t= he world. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking the= m. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortabl= e. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank h= er. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank = her. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. No= t all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, fo= r example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer= When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anyth= ing you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. Iron rusts from = disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen= ; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Compassion is the antit= oxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impuls= es remain relatively harmless. Love is the immortal flow of energy that no= urishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. The great thing = about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the wo= rld, day or night, you can always change the channel. Blessed is the man w= ho, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the f= act. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all o= f the time and have the time of your life. It's not that chocolates are a = substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let= 's face it, far more reliable than a man. Books are the shoes with which w= e tread the footsteps of great minds. I discovered I always have choices a= nd sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Always listen to experts. The= y'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. If you find a path = with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. Hatch a dream and th= en believe it. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than = alcohol has taken out of me. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a= privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize wi= th itself. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity= that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. Always = do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mo= uth shut. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well live= d makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision = of hope. Look well, therefore to this day. Friends are as companions on a = journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier= life. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force= of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need = for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot= stand. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. Beer= is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Try not to become a = man of success but rather to become a man of value. The problem with some = people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. No elected body is t= he country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way = as long as we care to keep it so. The man who says I told you so is making= an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. A b= ook may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgott= en corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or = the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written = for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other h= uman being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. The = ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and= convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy.=20= ------=0_00EC_06F9779BR_06N.986H65C0-- ------=0EZ_04C0737CD_09Z.040L42O0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="hr.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <682257c4d3c0$2180fea0$656aa9c0@EJVEEV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAEwAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAABJQAAAoNwAARqz/2wCEABMPDxYQFiQVFSQtIhwiLSkjIiIjKTgvLy8vLzhBOzs7Ozs7 QUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUEBFBYWHRkdIxgYIzEjHSMxPzEmJjE/QT87Lzs/ QUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQUFBQf/CABEIAU0B9AMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xADTAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFEAACAgIC AgICAgICAgIDAAABAgADEQQSBSETEDEgBiIUMCNBMiQVQDM0JRYRAAEDAgMEBwYDBgQFBQEAAAEA EQIhAzFREhBBYSIgcYGRMhMEMKGxwUJS8GIjQNHhcoKikjODFPGywlPT0kNjc3QFEgABAwIEAwUH 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mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05484 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A75207ED; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:55:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1A920652; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:55:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2AE9207EA for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:54:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DF0207E7 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Feb 2005 18:05:19 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.88,196,1102309200"; d="scan'208"; a="36723130:sNHT21457920" Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-72.cisco.com [10.82.224.72]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1BMrXhF026873; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:53:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502112253.j1BMrXhF026873@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: Cc: , , , , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpg== X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:53:32 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Section 2, paragraph 2 says "if the EAP server receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint." It's not clear how the EAP-Response/Identity message would reach an EAP server if it was unacceptable, nor how it would know what an acceptable hint would be. The NAI is used to route AAA messages. If the user knows the realm, and the realm is valid, and the EAP server receives from AAA an EAP message containing a known, valid user ID, how can that be unacceptable? If it was somehow delivered to the wrong AAA home server, the only appropriate action for the AAA server to take is to deny access; if it was correctly delivered, however, the right course is to continue the authentication process. This leads me to believe that there is a purpose other than the advertisement of available realms being served by this draft; if so, it might be a good idea if it were to be disclosed. In the appendix, the authors take it upon themselves to use the term "EAP server" as a kind of placeholder that can represent virtually any entity in both the EAP and AAA chains. However, an EAP server is a well-defined thing; in particular, it is not identical to an EAP authenticator (though they may be co-located), nor a RADIUS proxy, nor a RADIUS server (ditto). This is a technical error, and betrays to my thinking a certain fuzziness (at least) of thought about the subject. In fact, a real EAP server is unlikely to have any knowledge of NAIs or AAA routing, so that the hints described would almost certainly come from some AAA entity. Hidden behind this fuzziness is a rather dangerous assumption, I think, that AAA should not only transport EAP messages, but interpret them and actually interfere with the operation of the EAP protocol. If I understand the intent of this document, it seems that if this protocol operates successfully, the result will be that any person within range of say, an 802.11 hotspot, who just begins the EAP authentication process will end up with a list of all the roaming partners of the access network. This would seem to be a rather serious security risk, but it is unmentioned in the Security Considerations section. ~gwz _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Groveseiuhd@juntos.com Fri Feb 11 18:06:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07356; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: Groveseiuhd@juntos.com Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzkCX-0002Jn-WA; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:27:56 -0500 Received: from [222.101.109.135] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Czjs5-0007Kl-Sx; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:06:47 -0500 Received: from london.com ([212.227.119.80]) by downstate.truth.com (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 970-144-654 license 6ex708oc8313p9zd5q0roe7486n1dpj8) with ESMTP id <30889302436384.L[4 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:06:47 -0500 X-Spam-Score: 5.9 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 2eba37fe9c77781b0ecb0a74d8c65128 From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 18:56:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA13886 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:56:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2712080A; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C4120806; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:56:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A217020806 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B0C20804 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1BNtpa6024282; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:55:51 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1BNtnW8000912; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:55:51 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021115555118920 ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:55:51 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:55:51 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7Qlw From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: , Cc: "Lortz, Victor" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2005 23:55:51.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[372091A0:01C51095] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:55:50 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glen, Please see my comments inline. Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:54 PM > To: iesg@ietf.org > Cc: Adrangi, Farid; Lortz, Victor; farooq.bari@attws.com;=20 > Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 >=20 > Section 2, paragraph 2 says "if the EAP server receives an > EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers > implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an > EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint." It's not clear > how the EAP-Response/Identity message would reach an EAP server if > it was unacceptable, nor how it would know what an acceptable hint > would be. The NAI is used to route AAA messages. If the user knows > the realm, and the realm is valid, and the EAP server receives from > AAA an EAP message containing a known, valid user ID, how can that > be unacceptable? If it was somehow delivered to the wrong AAA home > server, the only appropriate action for the AAA server to take is to > deny access; if it was correctly delivered, however, the right > course is to continue the authentication process. This leads me to > believe that there is a purpose other than the advertisement of > available realms being served by this draft; if so, it might be a > good idea if it were to be disclosed. >=20 I think Joe brought up the similar point. So, please let's use the same thread to avoid duplicate discussion. > In the appendix, the authors take it upon themselves to use the term > "EAP server" as a kind of placeholder that can represent virtually > any entity in both the EAP and AAA chains. However, an EAP server > is a well-defined thing; in particular, it is not identical to an > EAP authenticator (though they may be co-located), nor a RADIUS > proxy, nor a RADIUS server (ditto). =20 RFC 3784 has the following definition of an EAP server. EAP server The entity that terminates the EAP authentication method with the peer. In the case where no backend authentication server is used, the EAP server is part of the authenticator. In the case where the authenticator operates in pass-through mode, the EAP server is located on the backend authentication server. >This is a technical error, and > betrays to my thinking a certain fuzziness (at least) of thought > about the subject. In fact, a real EAP server is unlikely to have > any knowledge of NAIs or AAA routing, so that the hints described > would almost certainly come from some AAA entity. =20 I don't think we are saying that EAP server will do AAA routing. However, we are saying the role of EAP server (could be part of authenticator or AAA proxy) will be responsible for sending EAP-Identity Request containing the hints. In some cases, the AAA bearer is used to deliver the EAP-Identity Request (e.g., when it is issued by the AAA proxy). Maybe "EAP server" is not the right term to use and hence the source of the confusion. But, I think we agree on how things would work from technical / protocol perspective, do you have any suggestions for using another term instead of "EAP server" for our purpose here? > Hidden behind > this fuzziness is a rather dangerous assumption, I think, that AAA > should not only transport EAP messages, but interpret them and > actually interfere with the operation of the EAP protocol. >=20 Fine, but that's outside the scope of this document. As far as this document concerns, AAA routing will be done based on the NAI placed in UserName(1) attribute - please see RFC3579 on how NAI gets copied to UserName(1). Where AAA proxy in the Access Network is not able to route the packet based the realm portion of the NAI, then it may send an Access-Challenge with identity hints to the peer. > If I understand the intent of this document, it seems that if this > protocol operates successfully, the result will be that any person > within range of say, an 802.11 hotspot, who just begins the EAP > authentication process will end up with a list of all the roaming > partners of the access network. This would seem to be a rather > serious security risk, but it is unmentioned in the Security > Considerations section. >=20 In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and some methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack scenario that you have in mind? > ~gwz >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From kvrulqf@o2.pl Fri Feb 11 19:11:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15033; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:11:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzlCt-0003k4-DE; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:32:21 -0500 Received: from [81.57.100.56] (helo=vol75-1-81-57-100-56.fbx.proxad.net) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CzksX-0000Lt-0k; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:11:17 -0500 Received: from sa.com.ar (HELO sa.com.ar [64.192.132.163]) by minu.ubp.edu.ar (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-8) with ESMTP id gBAApHtr37831 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:05:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3DF4FB83.70004@ubp.edu.ar> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:02:13 -0500 From: "Hector Goddard" To: Subject: Absolutely lowest. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----------A78705401054634" X-Spam-Score: 5.0 (+++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 17589c7043b24a47064a4b7516f59671 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------A78705401054634 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------A24212024868946" ------------A24212024868946 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Only Approved Pharmacy Online. ------------A24212024868946 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit clarinet conservatism

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:22:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F023D20813; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:22:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21DD20813 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:21:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA99E20811 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:21:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Feb 2005 19:20:16 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-72.cisco.com [10.82.224.72]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1C0KC1j013974; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:20:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502120020.j1C0KC1j013974@rtp-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGA= In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 16:20:12 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Hi Glen, > Please see my comments inline. > Farid > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:54 PM >> To: iesg@ietf.org >> Cc: Adrangi, Farid; Lortz, Victor; farooq.bari@attws.com; >> Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com >> Subject: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >> >> >> Section 2, paragraph 2 says "if the EAP server receives an >> EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers >> implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an >> EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint." It's not clear >> how the EAP-Response/Identity message would reach an EAP server if >> it was unacceptable, nor how it would know what an acceptable hint >> would be. The NAI is used to route AAA messages. If the user knows >> the realm, and the realm is valid, and the EAP server receives from >> AAA an EAP message containing a known, valid user ID, how can that be >> unacceptable? If it was somehow delivered to the wrong AAA home >> server, the only appropriate action for the AAA server to take is to >> deny access; if it was correctly delivered, however, the right course >> is to continue the authentication process. This leads me to believe >> that there is a purpose other than the advertisement of available >> realms being served by this draft; if so, it might be a good idea if >> it were to be disclosed. >> > I think Joe brought up the similar point. So, please let's use the > same thread to avoid duplicate discussion. > >> In the appendix, the authors take it upon themselves to use the term >> "EAP server" as a kind of placeholder that can represent virtually >> any entity in both the EAP and AAA chains. However, an EAP server >> is a well-defined thing; in particular, it is not identical to an EAP >> authenticator (though they may be co-located), nor a RADIUS proxy, >> nor a RADIUS server (ditto). > > RFC 3784 has the following definition of an EAP server. > > EAP server > The entity that terminates the EAP authentication method with > the peer. In the case where no backend authentication server > is used, the EAP server is part of the authenticator. In the > case where the authenticator operates in pass-through mode, the > EAP server is located on the backend authentication server. I don't really understand your point. I agree (and said) that they may be co-located; that doesn't make them the same thing. My dictionary defines "entity" as "Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit." > >> This is a technical error, and >> betrays to my thinking a certain fuzziness (at least) of thought >> about the subject. In fact, a real EAP server is unlikely to have >> any knowledge of NAIs or AAA routing, so that the hints described >> would almost certainly come from some AAA entity. > > I don't think we are saying that EAP server will do AAA routing. > However, we are saying the role of EAP server (could be part of > authenticator or AAA proxy) will be responsible for sending > EAP-Identity Request containing the hints. In some cases, the AAA > bearer is used to deliver the EAP-Identity Request (e.g., when it is > issued by the AAA proxy). Maybe "EAP server" is not the right term > to use and hence the source of the confusion. But, I think we agree > on how things would work from technical / protocol perspective, do > you have any suggestions for using another term instead of "EAP > server" for our purpose here? Which entity is going to _provide_ the hints? That is, which one has knowledge of roaming partners, next hop routing for AAA packets, etc.? Since what you are actually doing is telling the user how to source-route AAA packets, wouldn't that be the AAA server? > >> Hidden behind >> this fuzziness is a rather dangerous assumption, I think, that AAA >> should not only transport EAP messages, but interpret them and >> actually interfere with the operation of the EAP protocol. >> > Fine, but that's outside the scope of this document. As far as this > document concerns, AAA routing will be done based on the NAI placed > in > UserName(1) attribute - please see RFC3579 on how NAI gets copied to > UserName(1). Not exactly -- it will be done based upon what AAA tells the client to put in the NAI. > Where AAA proxy in the Access Network is not able to > route the packet based the realm portion of the NAI, then it may send > an Access-Challenge with identity hints to the peer. > >> If I understand the intent of this document, it seems that if this >> protocol operates successfully, the result will be that any person >> within range of say, an 802.11 hotspot, who just begins the EAP >> authentication process will end up with a list of all the roaming >> partners of the access network. This would seem to be a rather >> serious security risk, but it is unmentioned in the Security >> Considerations section. >> > > In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and some > methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack > scenario that you have in mind? > >> ~gwz Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 21:26:11 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22926 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9EC20841; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BDB20843; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A0720843 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:25:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE9B20841 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:25:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 03:38:36 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-281.cisco.com [10.82.225.25]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1C2PKlu014665; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 03:25:21 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502120225.j1C2PKlu014665@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: , "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIA== In-Reply-To: <200502120020.j1C0KC1j013974@rtp-core-1.cisco.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:25:19 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen Zorn (gwz) <> supposedly scribbled: ... >> >> In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and some >> methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack >> scenario that you have in mind? Sorry, I missed this one. It seems that it enables attacks against the greater network; it's not an attack against your protocol, per se, but it seems that your protocol is giving away (by design) a lot of information about network topology and even contracts to anybody who happens along. That's almost never a good idea. It would be far less revealing if the EAP peer were to send a list of realms it was willing to use. Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 21:41:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA23689 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF3720845; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC1E2084B; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:41:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0A72084B for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:40:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (fmr18.intel.com [134.134.136.17]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3934020845 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:40:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1C2eOSc027597; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:40:24 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1C2eGW6023531; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:40:24 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021118402406605 ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:40:24 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:40:23 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQ From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: , Cc: "Lortz, Victor" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2005 02:40:23.0623 (UTC) FILETIME=[339C5570:01C510AC] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:40:22 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Geln. Please see my comments inline. Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:25 PM > To: gwz@cisco.com; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: Lortz, Victor; farooq.bari@attws.com;=20 > Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on=20 > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 >=20 > Glen Zorn (gwz) <> supposedly scribbled: >=20 > ... >=20 > >>=20 > >> In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and > some > >> methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack > >> scenario that you have in mind? >=20 > Sorry, I missed this one. It seems that it enables attacks against > the greater network;=20 [FA] Right. But, what are they? We mentioned some in the document -- let's identify the ones that we missed. > it's not an attack against your protocol, per > se,=20 [FA] The draft does not provide any new protocol. We are using existing EAP protocol with no changes. >but it seems that your protocol is giving away (by design) a lot > of information about network topology and even contracts to anybody > who happens along. [FA] yes, roaming partners of the access network is given away. So, let's identify how MITM can take advantage of the information and attack the network, in addition to what we already mentioned it in the draft. > That's almost never a good idea. It would be > far less revealing if the EAP peer were to send a list of realms it > was willing to use. >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > ~gwz >=20 > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by > simply > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 22:13:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA24979 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D41520856; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:13:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CF920857; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:13:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCFE20857 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EAB20856 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 04:26:06 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-281.cisco.com [10.82.225.25]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1C3Colu018967; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:12:51 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502120312.j1C3Colu018967@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OA= In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:12:50 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Thanks Geln. Please see my comments inline. > Farid > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:25 PM >> To: gwz@cisco.com; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org >> Cc: Lortz, Victor; farooq.bari@attws.com; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; >> eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on >> draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >> >> >> Glen Zorn (gwz) <> supposedly scribbled: >> >> ... >> >>>> >>>> In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and some >>>> methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack >>>> scenario that you have in mind? >> >> Sorry, I missed this one. It seems that it enables attacks against >> the greater network; > [FA] Right. But, what are they? We mentioned some in the document -- > let's identify the ones that we missed. >> it's not an attack against your protocol, per se, > [FA] The draft does not provide any new protocol. We are using > existing EAP protocol with no changes. > >> but it seems that your protocol is giving away (by design) a lot of >> information about network topology and even contracts to anybody who >> happens along. > > [FA] yes, roaming partners of the access network is given away. So, > let's identify how MITM This isn't a man-in-the-middle attack; I don't have to eavesdrop, I just have to ask. > can take advantage of the information and > attack the network, in addition to what we already mentioned it in > the draft. Did you mention this in the draft? I must have missed it. In any case, how many attacks are enabled by having access to a network and knowing which network it is? Suppose that one of the realms being advertised is intel.com. That's wonderful! I don't have to war-dial (or -drive) to find a way into Intel's network, it's right there in the comfort of my local Starbucks, advertised for all to see! Of course, I don't have credentials, but a user ID should be easy to come by. Maybe I can't get inside the Intel network easily, but let's see, if I fail authentication n times, will the account be disabled? That should provide a little entertainment! The point is, this draft (by design) opens a hole that wasn't there before. How big a truck can be driven through it remains to be seen... > >> That's almost never a good idea. It would be far less revealing if >> the EAP peer were to send a list of realms it was willing to use. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> ~gwz >> >> Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply >> listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 22:52:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27159 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FA220870; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752A72086A; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:52:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CD02086A for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:51:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail11.cingular.com [170.35.225.26]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC9A20868 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:51:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.42.163]) by extmail11.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYHG4.18891597; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:50:39 -0500 Received: from nwestmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1C3ocZU011917; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.241]) by nwestmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19267; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:50:38 -0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwA== From: "Bari, Farooq" To: , "Adrangi, Farid" , Cc: "Lortz, Victor" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2005 03:50:38.0513 (UTC) FILETIME=[03E18210:01C510B6] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:50:38 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Glen, Good to hear from you. Pls see my comments below.=20 -----Original Message----- From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:13 PM To: 'Adrangi, Farid'; iesg@ietf.org Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Bari, Farooq; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Thanks Geln. Please see my comments inline. > Farid >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:25 PM >> To: gwz@cisco.com; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org >> Cc: Lortz, Victor; farooq.bari@attws.com; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; >> eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on >> draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >>=20 >>=20 >> Glen Zorn (gwz) <> supposedly scribbled: >>=20 >> ... >>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> In security section, we mention possible attack scenarios and some >>>> methods to prevent them. Did we miss any? What is the attack >>>> scenario that you have in mind? >>=20 >> Sorry, I missed this one. It seems that it enables attacks against >> the greater network; > [FA] Right. But, what are they? We mentioned some in the document -- > let's identify the ones that we missed.=20 >> it's not an attack against your protocol, per se, > [FA] The draft does not provide any new protocol. We are using > existing EAP protocol with no changes.=20 >=20 >> but it seems that your protocol is giving away (by design) a lot of >> information about network topology and even contracts to anybody who >> happens along. >=20 > [FA] yes, roaming partners of the access network is given away. So, > let's identify how MITM=20 This isn't a man-in-the-middle attack; I don't have to eavesdrop, I just have to ask. =20 (FB) so what - should the service providers stop advertising their presence...I am not sure what you are suggesting. If service providers can not announce their presence for fear of an attack then I am not sure how they can serve their customers....should the hot spot operator stop announcing its presence as well for fear of an attack?=20 > can take advantage of the information and > attack the network, in addition to what we already mentioned it in > the draft.=20 Did you mention this in the draft? I must have missed it. In any case, how many attacks are enabled by having access to a network and knowing which network it is? Suppose that one of the realms being advertised is intel.com. That's wonderful! I don't have to war-dial (or -drive) to find a way into Intel's network, it's right there in the comfort of my local Starbucks, advertised for all to see! Of course, I don't have credentials, but a user ID should be easy to come by. Maybe I can't get inside the Intel network easily, but let's see, if I fail authentication n times, will the account be disabled? That should provide a little entertainment! The point is, this draft (by design) opens a hole that wasn't there before. How big a truck can be driven through it remains to be seen... (FB) Again your reasoning is difficult for me to comprehend. All cellular providers for example do advertise their presence e.g via boradcasting a PLMN. That is how the subscribers can get to their networks. This broadcast is visible to all non subscribers as well. Should they stop broadcasting their presence for fear of an attack. I can probably right a very long email on it but I wait for your response as to why do you expect service providers should stop broadcasting their presence ....BTW your example is wrong. Intel till last news is not service provides - service providers on the other hand by default are supposed to interface with both their customers as well as roaming partner customers from all locations including starbucks and Tullys and other small venues like them. >=20 >> That's almost never a good idea. It would be far less revealing if >> the EAP peer were to send a list of realms it was willing to use. >>=20 >> Hope this helps, >>=20 >> ~gwz >>=20 >> Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply >> listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Higgins@mypersonalemail.com Fri Feb 11 23:01:49 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA27667; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:01:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502120401.XAA27667@ietf.org> Received: from [213.157.166.156] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Czonx-0007gJ-AL; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:22:54 -0500 Received: from [147.228.26.224] by implementation%DIGITS.andrei.213.157.166.156 via HTTP; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:01:25 -0800 Reply-To: "i Hawkins Corp." 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Webcam's are= available for all 4. http://www.doherinnotime.com/d/10.php If you have found a lady or not to be paired up then continue. http://doherinnotime.com/out/=20 ----8701832946zmot5484-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 11 23:41:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA29892 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B385D20881; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8ABD20882; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:41:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F4320882 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3996520881 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 05:53:43 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-281.cisco.com [10.82.225.25]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1C4eQlu025652; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:40:27 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502120440.j1C4eQlu025652@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Bari, Farooq'" , "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAC4tBw In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:40:25 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bari, Farooq <> supposedly scribbled: ... >> >>> but it seems that your protocol is giving away (by design) a lot of >>> information about network topology and even contracts to anybody who >>> happens along. >> >> [FA] yes, roaming partners of the access network is given away. So, >> let's identify how MITM > > This isn't a man-in-the-middle attack; I don't have to eavesdrop, I > just have to ask. > > (FB) so what - should the service providers stop advertising their > presence...I am not sure what you are suggesting. If service > providers can not announce their presence for fear of an attack then > I am not sure how they can serve their customers....should the hot > spot operator stop announcing its presence as well for fear of an > attack? > >> can take advantage of the information and attack the network, in >> addition to what we already mentioned it in the draft. > > Did you mention this in the draft? I must have missed it. In any > case, how many attacks are enabled by having access to a network and > knowing which network it is? Suppose that one of the realms being > advertised is intel.com. That's wonderful! I don't have to war-dial > (or -drive) to find a way into Intel's network, it's right there in > the comfort of my local Starbucks, advertised for all to see! Of > course, I don't have credentials, but a user ID should be easy to > come by. Maybe I can't get inside the Intel network easily, but > let's see, if I fail authentication n times, will the account be > disabled? That should provide a little entertainment! The point is, > this draft (by design) opens a hole that wasn't there before. How big > a truck can be driven through it remains to be seen... > > (FB) Again your reasoning is difficult for me to comprehend. All > cellular providers for example do advertise their presence e.g via > boradcasting a PLMN. That is how the subscribers can get to their > networks. This broadcast is visible to all non subscribers as well. > Should they stop broadcasting their presence for fear of an attack. I > can probably right a very long email on it but I wait for your > response as to why do you expect service providers should stop > broadcasting their presence .... Don't wait too long. I give up. ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 00:12:05 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA02008 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55832089A; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FAB720896; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:12:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7E420896 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFE420886 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:11:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AD189871 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:11:34 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <420D8FB6.9030705@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502112025.PAA05252@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502112025.PAA05252@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-eronen-eap-sim-aka-80211-00.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:10:14 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : Evaluation of Cellular Extensible Authentication Protocol > (EAP) Methods agaist IEEE 802.11 requirements > Author(s) : P. Eronen, et al. > Filename : draft-eronen-eap-sim-aka-80211-00.txt > Pages : 12 > Date : 2005-2-11 > > This document evaluates two Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) > methods, EAP-AKA and EAP-SIM, against the EAP method requirements for > Wireless LANs given in [802.11 REQ]. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eronen-eap-sim-aka-80211-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From calamir@freemail.nl Sat Feb 12 04:50:54 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA13276; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CzuFt-0006aL-8Q; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:12:01 -0500 Received: from [222.78.202.210] (helo=emoka.ro) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CztvP-0007Hy-EZ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:50:52 -0500 message-id: <011701c510e8$aacc4ce0$d309eec9@AUXFDHW> Reply-To: From: "Viagra, Cialis, Xanax, Valium..." 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Preferably Not From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 20:42:28 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18543 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669BF1FE1E; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016721FFF3; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4EE204B7 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:46:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79680204D5 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:37:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 17:43:39 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-281.cisco.com [10.82.225.25]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1CGUDlu022456; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:30:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502121630.j1CGUDlu022456@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Bari, Farooq'" , "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2A In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:30:12 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, now that we've established that the security properties of WLANs are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq had pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot of time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further discussion of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be listed in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts with Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when they are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming partner of Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to access the network. How does that work? Does it work at all? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 20:42:37 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18563 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70E520351; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DD01FFF3; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:25 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B1F20512 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFED204EA for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:46:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 17:59:28 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-281.cisco.com [10.82.225.25]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1CGk1lu023774; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:46:02 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502121646.j1CGk1lu023774@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: , "'Bari, Farooq'" , "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2AAACzUiA= X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:46:00 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen Zorn (gwz) supposedly scribbled: > OK, now that we've established that the security properties of WLANs > are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq had > pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot of > time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further discussion > of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be listed > in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts with > Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when they > are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming partner of > Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the > world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to > access the network. Should have mentioned, using her Bigco.com user ID. >How does that work? Does it work at all? BTW, this example is from Real Life -- the names have been changed to protect the innocent -- and is the simplest example of enterprise roaming/remote access I can think of. There are _much_ more complex examples, also from Real Life. Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 20:42:46 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18584 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC4920319; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9510E203DF; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:35 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA412050E for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from goliath.siemens.de (goliath.siemens.de [192.35.17.28]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3FD5204BF for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1CDvpJH001870; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:57:51 +0100 Received: from mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de (mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de [139.25.137.99]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1CDvpiQ009185; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:57:51 +0100 Received: by mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <1XNRHT84>; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:57:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: Tschofenig Hannes To: "'ietf-enroll@mit.edu'" , "'pana@ietf.org'" , "'mip6@ietf.org'" , "'eap@frascone.com'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] new draft: Enriching Bootstrapping with Authorization Information Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:56:31 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) hi all, we (gerardo, antonio and myself) have written a document relevant for bootstrapping (which again is relevant for a number of working groups in the meanwhile). please find the draft in the indicated url (before it appears in the id-directory). ------------ Abstract Some work has been done in the area of bootstrapping in the IETF recently. Bootstrapping refers to the process of creating state (typically security associations) between two or more entities based on a trust relationship between these two or more parties and a trusted third party. So far work has mostly focused on creating security associations. This document aims to attach authorization information to the bootstrapping process. http://www.tschofenig.com/drafts/draft-tschofenig-enroll-bootstrapping-saml- 00.txt http://www.tschofenig.com/drafts/draft-tschofenig-enroll-bootstrapping-saml- 00.html ------------ ciao hannes, gerardo, antonio _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 20:43:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18622 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:43:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D46E204FD; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:43:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E5120527; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:42:56 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E7720529 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5C520521 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:17:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1CIHSc1027141; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:17:28 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1CIHSr6008941; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:17:28 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021210172700565 ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:17:27 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:17:27 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2AAAOfyjA= From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: , "Bari, Farooq" , Cc: "Lortz, Victor" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2005 18:17:27.0956 (UTC) FILETIME=[1BECB540:01C5112F] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:17:27 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glen, I don't think Farooq was implying that (security properties of WLANs are identical to those of cellular networks). Anyhow, in your example, either Megatel.com knows that it needs to route @bigco.com to Consort.com (based on some local policy), or the user influences the routing by NAI decoration. =20 -Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:30 AM > To: 'Bari, Farooq'; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on=20 > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 >=20 > OK, now that we've established that the security properties of WLANs > are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq had > pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot of > time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further > discussion of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will > be listed in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com > contracts with Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's > employees when they are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is > a roaming partner of Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in > coffeehouses around the world. A Bigco employee walks into a > Megatel hotspot and tries to access the network. How does that > work? Does it work at all? >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 20:43:29 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18659 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0996720523; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:43:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CBF1FE1E; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:43:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E345B2054E for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:24:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036D920520 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2005 21:37:30 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-255.cisco.com [10.82.224.255]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1CKO1lu011893; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:24:02 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502122024.j1CKO1lu011893@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Adrangi, Farid'" , "'Bari, Farooq'" , Cc: "'Lortz, Victor'" , , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2AAAOfyjAABK1QcA== In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:24:00 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Hi Glen, > I don't think Farooq was implying that (security properties of WLANs > are identical to those of cellular networks). Anyhow, in your > example, either Megatel.com knows that it needs to route @bigco.com > to Consort.com (based on some local policy), So the local proxy needs to have a list of all of Consort.com's partners? Otherwise, won't it send a set of hints (which we've established wouldn't include Bigco.com, and therefore seem pretty much useless in this case) back to the client? > or the user influences > the routing by NAI decoration. Does the latter option exist, unless the user happens to know all the relationships involved? > -Farid > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:30 AM >> To: 'Bari, Farooq'; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org >> Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com >> Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on >> draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >> >> >> OK, now that we've established that the security properties of WLANs >> are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq had >> pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot of >> time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further discussion >> of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be listed >> in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts with >> Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when they >> are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming partner of >> Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the >> world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to >> access the network. How does that work? Does it work at all? Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 12 21:29:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21421 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2241FE0D; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BAB20313; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:29:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E02C20313 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:28:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail09.cingular.com [170.35.225.24]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9BF1FE0D for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.40.161]) by extmail09.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYGZ6.18967729; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:27:51 -0500 Received: from neastmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall1.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1D2RoPL029205 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.242]) by neastmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01105 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:27:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:27:50 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2AAAOfyjAABK1QcAAH8K9wAAO2B5AAAGK1UAABCzAA From: "Bari, Farooq" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2005 02:27:50.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D5D0F00:01C51173] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:27:50 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joe, Following is link to the stage 3 (i.e. detailed design document) TS 24.234 that has this draft listed as reference. The latest rev is 6.1.1 that is being worked on. http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/24234.htm If it makes everyone happy we can include a reference to this document in the IETF draft. BR, Farooq -----Original Message----- From: Salowey, Joe [mailto:jsalowey@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 5:50 PM To: Bari, Farooq; Zorn, Glen; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com; Stephen Hayes (TX/EUS) Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Hi Farooq, Perhaps there is an informative 3GPP document that this draft can reference. Thanks, Joe=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bari, Farooq [mailto:Farooq.Bari@cingular.com]=20 > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 4:22 PM > To: Zorn, Glen; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com;=20 > Stephen Hayes (TX/EUS); Salowey, Joe > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on=20 > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 > Hi Glen, >=20 > I am not sure why you are opening this particular discussion=20 > at the last minute, more than a year after we closed this=20 > topic in the EAP WG group. > FYI again, as it was stated several times, this draft is to=20 > be used by 3GPP (http://www.3gpp.org/TB/Other/IETF.htm) for=20 > their interworking with WLAN. The roaming scenarios are based=20 > on 3GPP models and they work fine. > Trying to answer your questions in this manner will take=20 > forever and is not productive - their were several=20 > opportunities for you in the last two years as you do=20 > attend/follow the EAP WG and the draft went through not one=20 > but two pseudo WG last calls. >=20 > And please do not twist other person's comments. >=20 > I hope this helps. >=20 > Farooq >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:24 PM > To: 'Adrangi, Farid'; Bari, Farooq; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 > Adrangi, Farid supposedly > scribbled: >=20 > > Hi Glen, > > I don't think Farooq was implying that (security properties of > WLANs > > are identical to those of cellular networks). Anyhow, in your=20 > > example, either Megatel.com knows that it needs to route > @bigco.com > > to Consort.com (based on some local policy), >=20 > So the local proxy needs to have a list of all of=20 > Consort.com's partners? Otherwise, won't it send a set of=20 > hints (which we've established wouldn't include Bigco.com,=20 > and therefore seem pretty much useless in this case) back to=20 > the client? >=20 > > or the user influences > > the routing by NAI decoration.=20 >=20 > Does the latter option exist, unless the user happens to know=20 > all the relationships involved? >=20 > > -Farid =20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:30 AM > >> To: 'Bari, Farooq'; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org > >> Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > >> Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on > >> draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> OK, now that we've established that the security properties of > WLANs > >> are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq > had > >> pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot > of > >> time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further > discussion > >> of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be > listed > >> in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts > with > >> Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when > they > >> are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming > partner of > >> Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the=20 > >> world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to=20 > >> access the network. How does that work? Does it work at all? >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > ~gwz >=20 > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From support@paypal.com Sat Feb 12 22:36:01 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA25869 for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.117.177.39] (helo=216.117.177.39) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0Asn-0001RX-Cq for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:57:17 -0500 Received: from 24.128.36.203 by web040.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:34:00 +0600 Message-ID: From: "PayPal" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: PayPal Flagged Account Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:28:00 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--02560681242490571130" X-CS-IP: 0.115.184.42 X-Spam-Score: 10.9 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f ----02560681242490571130 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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----02560681242490571130-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 15:06:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19860 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEF71FCD6; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61B320553; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:06:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0603A20553 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:05:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2131FCD6 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D0Pzp-0000u3-At for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:05:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1DK5WT30275 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:05:32 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issues Bifurcation Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:05:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) I've filed Glen's review comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt under two separate issues. Issue 286 will cover the security issues arising from disclosure of the network partners. Issue 287 will cover the roaming model issues that Glen has raised about the document. So we can disentangle the discussions, I will post comments on both issues. Please reply to those emails under the appropriate issue so we can track discussion. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 15:10:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20402 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6B220567; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A7020561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:10:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1D820553 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19541FCD6 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:09:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D0Q3R-0003KW-19 for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:09:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1DK9FM30465 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:09:16 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 286: Security Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:09:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) It seems that the crux of the issue here is the appropriateness of the network disclosure mechanisms. For example, as I understand it in 802.11u, there is a proposal whereby the STA would disclose the networks with which it has a relationship in the Probe Request, and the AP would respond with the subset of that list that it supports in the Probe Response. The discovery mechanism in this draft is somewhat different: the AAA proxy discloses its roaming relationships to the peer without the peer first indicating what networks it supports. The questions this issue raises are: 1. Is the disclosure negotiation described in this document appropriate? What are the security implications? 2. Does the document need to be modified so as to have the peer indicate the networks it supports? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 15:14:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20819 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36241FCD6; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF8C20553; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1439320553 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:13:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F441FCD6 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:13:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D0Q77-0005QF-U5 for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:13:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1DKD4Y30666 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:13:04 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:13:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) This issue, raised by Glen seems to relate to the roaming model implicitly assumed by this document, and whether it is compatible with the IETF roaming model as embodied in the products of the ROAMOPS WG. Glen has put forward a basic ROAMOPS roaming scenario, and has questioned whether this scenario is supported by the document. 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Helen.Lee Warwick, Account Manager TJK Associates r.mv - http://gsvdvs.info:443/index.php ----82070_617001.Bxj343-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 15:53:12 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25072 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:53:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB391FCD6; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF5820555; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:53:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9DF20555 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:52:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5751FCD6 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Feb 2005 22:06:03 +0100 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn2-98.cisco.com [10.82.240.98]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1DKqGlu018326; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:52:17 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200502132052.j1DKqGlu018326@ams-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Adrangi, Farid'" Cc: , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUQi+dF2siLT8AAQ1uhJqyMkESwpgAA7QlwAAG4eGAABHViIAAAn4MQAACq0OAAAN7LwAAbQS2AAAOfyjAABK1QcAAH8K9wAADjPeAABs4kMAAjG+Bw In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:52:15 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Hi Glen, > Please see my comments inline. > Farid > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 4:54 PM >> To: 'Bari, Farooq'; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org >> Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com; 'Stephen >> Hayes (TX/EUS)'; 'Salowey, Joe' >> Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on >> draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >> >> >> Bari, Farooq supposedly scribbled: >> >>> Hi Glen, >>> >>> I am not sure why you are opening this particular discussion at the >>> last minute, more than a year after we closed this topic in the EAP >>> WG group. >> >> It appears that this is not an EAP WG work item. It only came to my >> attention that the IETF Last Call was ending Friday on Thursday, and >> I was actually not planning to comment; however, I was strongly >> encouraged to do so by several others. In any case, I believe that >> in this body topics are open for discussion until the last Last Call >> ends. >> > > Yes. This is an individual submission. I believe we had 3 pseudo > last calls (initiated by Bernard) before the draft was sent to IESG, > and also the WG had this draft reviewed by IEEE/WIEN and received an > official feedback/approval from the chair of IEEE/WIEN -- the report > was posted on the list by Bernard and Jari. > > We (authors) do encourage you to review the draft. But, I don't > think we want to repeat or rehash the discussion that we have had in > last two years. A few things could help: (1) You might want to > review the archives (in last two years) on this thread and I am sure > you will find answers to most of your questions. (2) You might want > to review the problem statement for network selection (written by > Bernard and Jari). (3) You might want to review Release-6 3GPP/WLAN > (stage 2 and 3 > documents) which will provide an overview how this concept is used. > Your colleague, Mark Grayson, could also be a good source of the > information, as he was involved in the design of network selection in > 3GPP. OK, so I'm not just trying to give you a hard time. I also believe myself to be neither a super-genius who can spot problems where others cannot, nor delusional enough to imagine problems where there are none (though Farooq may disagree with that ;-). I have read all the references (both normative and informative) cited in the draft, several of them many times & co-authored one of them. I was co-chair of the WG that developed the original NAI spec. Nevertheless, I still don't understand exactly how this thing would work in practice & I still have serious (to me, anyway) questions about both the security of the proposal and about its compatibility with existing IETF models of roaming. I believe that others could reasonably pose similar questions. Yet, RFCs are (I think) supposed to be more or less standalone documents: if a person reads the RFC and the normative texts referenced therein, that person (assuming average intelligence & appropriate training) should understand clearly the RFC in question. Perhaps I'm just an idiot, but if not, then telling me to read 2 years of email archives and hundreds of pages of documentation from an external SDO in order to understand an RFC is just unacceptable, IMHO. Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 16:01:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25695 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF6A20569; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C71E20562; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:01:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE3B20562 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:00:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32071FCD6 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:00:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1DL0NBd005330; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:23 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1DKxvI4026812; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:22 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021313002228712 ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:00:22 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:00:22 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issues Bifurcation Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issues Bifurcation Thread-Index: AcUSB3eaUf0/hVHkQq6zeNcaVoZ2IAABbTMg From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2005 21:00:22.0636 (UTC) FILETIME=[088042C0:01C5120F] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:00:22 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Bernard. We also need to add Joe's review comments on section 2. Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:06 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issues Bifurcation >=20 >=20 > I've filed Glen's review comments on > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt under two separate issues. > Issue 286 will cover the security issues arising from=20 > disclosure of the > network partners. >=20 > Issue 287 will cover the roaming model issues that Glen has=20 > raised about > the document. >=20 > So we can disentangle the discussions, I will post comments on both > issues. Please reply to those emails under the appropriate=20 > issue so we > can track discussion. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 18:19:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA05627 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C7120561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920EE20562; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:19:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD3220562 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr004.jf.intel.com (fmr19.intel.com [134.134.136.18]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4600620561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr004.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1DNIIOI013139; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:18:18 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1DNIGHY010162; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:18:18 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021315181830420 ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:18:18 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:18:18 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUSCAacoXqnxvimQ8S9inXY/SZfHAAFAJlw From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2005 23:18:18.0565 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D56CF50:01C51222] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:18:17 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My two cents inline. Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:09 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 >=20 > It seems that the crux of the issue here is the appropriateness of the > network disclosure mechanisms. >=20 > For example, as I understand it in 802.11u, there is a=20 > proposal whereby > the STA would disclose the networks with which it has a=20 > relationship in > the Probe Request, and the AP would respond with the subset=20 > of that list > that it supports in the Probe Response. >=20 > The discovery mechanism in this draft is somewhat different: the AAA > proxy discloses its roaming relationships to the peer without the peer > first indicating what networks it supports. >=20 > The questions this issue raises are: >=20 > 1. Is the disclosure negotiation described in this document=20 > appropriate? > What are the security implications? >=20 This is a valid question rasied by Glen. And we are hoping we can use Glen's security expertise to undertand the security implications that weren't already addressed in the draft. > 2. Does the document need to be modified so as to have the=20 > peer indicate > the networks it supports? Interesting question. A few questions: 1) Would operators want to reveal all their roaming partners to any access network? =20 2) How does this work with manual selection (supported by Release 6 3GPP) where the client may not be pre-provisioned with roaming information? =20 3) Assuming that this is okay, why would there be a need for AAA or AP network advertisement? For example, the peer (user@anyisp.com) can indicate its route preferences in EAP-Identity/Response as follows: user@anyisp.com; anyisp.com!user@isp1; anyisp.com!user@isp2; anyisp.com!user@isp3 This means the AAA proxy should route the packet directly to anyisp.com first if possible, if not then it should try to route it through isp1 , if not, it should try isp2, and so on.=20 =20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 18:26:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06473 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:26:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF3D920561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:26:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B76720569; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2E320569 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A252720561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:25:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1DNPvBd010467; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:57 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1DNPqHW012439; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:57 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021315255631118 ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:25:56 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:25:57 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issues Bifurcation Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issues Bifurcation Thread-Index: AcUSB3eaUf0/hVHkQq6zeNcaVoZ2IAAGuBxg From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2005 23:25:57.0081 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EA2CC90:01C51223] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:25:56 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another issue that you might want add to the list. Glen thinks that the proposed solution modifies EAP .... " > OK, just one more question: if a) this draft doesn't modify EAP, as > has been asserted (I'm not sure that I agree with that assertion, > but will accept it at face value),=20 " -Faird > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:06 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issues Bifurcation >=20 >=20 > I've filed Glen's review comments on > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt under two separate issues. > Issue 286 will cover the security issues arising from=20 > disclosure of the > network partners. >=20 > Issue 287 will cover the roaming model issues that Glen has=20 > raised about > the document. >=20 > So we can disentangle the discussions, I will post comments on both > issues. Please reply to those emails under the appropriate=20 > issue so we > can track discussion. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 20:48:12 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14959 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A9E20561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2ECA205B8; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:48:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42556205B8 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:47:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail12.cingular.com [170.35.225.27]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C9120561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:47:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.40.161]) by extmail12.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYHH4.18707195; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:46:51 -0500 Received: from ncentmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall1.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1E1koDG022886; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.241]) by ncentmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20496; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:46:50 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUSCAll8/RytbInSCmkU/DSQdR8NQALFZNg From: "Bari, Farooq" To: "Bernard Aboba" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2005 01:46:50.0912 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D830A00:01C51237] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:46:50 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, Pls see my comments below. > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On Behalf Of > Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:09 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 > It seems that the crux of the issue here is the appropriateness of the > network disclosure mechanisms. >=20 > For example, as I understand it in 802.11u, there is a proposal whereby > the STA would disclose the networks with which it has a relationship in > the Probe Request, and the AP would respond with the subset of that list > that it supports in the Probe Response. >=20 > The discovery mechanism in this draft is somewhat different: the AAA > proxy discloses its roaming relationships to the peer without the peer > first indicating what networks it supports. >=20 > The questions this issue raises are: >=20 > 1. Is the disclosure negotiation described in this document appropriate? > What are the security implications? >=20 > 2. Does the document need to be modified so as to have the peer indicate > the networks it supports? I do not claim myself to be a security expert. The fundamental question that I ask, is if it is fair thing to ask a service provider not to announce its presence when by the very nature of its business it needs to announce its presence to the maximum number of current and potential furutre customers? Also 1) What is the issue with advertising presence of a service provider to all users before authentication has been done? What new security issue has been created? Service providers use printed materials, radio/tv advertisements etc. to announce their presence as well. Are these all security risks and they have security implications? Should they take off all the billboards, newspaper advertisements etc. as well? Again I say, no new security issue is created as this knowledge already exsists in public domain. 2) Do not we do it today via SSID or PLMN ID etc? Do not the hotpsot operator try to announce themselve by trying to have a specific SSID for their customers and broadcasting it (it has its issues but they are relevant to this discussion). The hotspot operators can even announce their roaming partners today by using multiple SSIDs. BR, Farooq > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 21:22:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17398 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BF020561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB7F205B9; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:22:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFB7205B9 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:21:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail13.cingular.com [170.35.225.28]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6535420561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.40.161]) by extmail13.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-TRRF8.18967811; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:21:40 -0500 Received: from nwestmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall1.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1E2LcM8029129; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.242]) by nwestmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00057; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:21:39 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model Thread-Index: AcUSCJevl+jNol03Q6yKNg3e1oSQIwAMlUOg From: "Bari, Farooq" To: "Bernard Aboba" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2005 02:21:39.0061 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA254A50:01C5123B] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:21:38 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was planning not to respond to this but now that it is listed as a issue, here is my response. Glen's scenario Bigco.com contracts with Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when they are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming partner of Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the world. A Bigco employee using her Bigco.com user ID, walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to access the network. My response 1. Bigco can have its employee's handsets/laptops provisioned with a list of its preferred roaming partners lists which in this case would include Consort.com. 2. Megatel is a roaming partner of Consort.com and therefore can advertise Consort.com as its roaming partners if needed. One possible scenario is that: The Bigco employee with her Bigco credentials tries to authenticate herself. Megatel does not recognize her and sends her back list of its roaming partner and among them is Consort.com. The BigCo employees client was provisioned with BigCo's preferred roaming partner list and therefore it recognizes Consort and sends out a response that indicates its desire to use Consort (as a middle man). The client software behavior described here is not part of the draft and the client may decide to behave differently. Another possible scenarios is=20 The Bigco employee upon entering the hotspot facility notices a sign saying that this Megatel operator faciltiy supports Consort customers as well. The user from its past experience or from information in its client software knows that it can use the network via Consort. So the BigCo employee sends out the first authentication request that includes the desire that she would like to use Consort (as a middle man). In this case the first message can be successful and no advertisement would be needed from MegaTel. Again this client software behavior is not part of the draft. > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On Behalf Of > Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:13 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model >=20 > This issue, raised by Glen seems to relate to the roaming model implicitly > assumed by this document, and whether it is compatible with the IETF > roaming model as embodied in the products of the ROAMOPS WG. >=20 > Glen has put forward a basic ROAMOPS roaming scenario, and has questioned > whether this scenario is supported by the document. >=20 > Some questions raised by this issue include: >=20 > o Are the roaming model assumptions and limitations clearly articulated in > the document? >=20 > o Is the document capable of supporting basic roaming scenarios, such as > those articulated by Glen as well as other ROAMOPS documents? > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 22:13:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20163 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EFD204A2; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA2520561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:13:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F22320561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163DD204A2 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D0WfO-000PnS-Hq; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:12:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1E3Crv23493; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:12:53 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: "Bari, Farooq" Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:12:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > I do not claim myself to be a security expert. The fundamental question > that I ask, is if it is fair thing to ask a service provider not to > announce its presence when by the very nature of its business it needs > to announce its presence to the maximum number of current and potential > future customers? It seems fair to enable the maximum degree of connectivity -- but this is not the same as requiring that a AAA proxy announce its routing table beyond the boundaries of the routing system. Based on some of the exchanges, my understanding is that there is some implicit "filtering" that is to occur in the route announcements so that not all routes are actually announced to the client. But it is not clear to me from the discussion exactly how this filter is defined, and what the impact is on global reachability. > 1) What is the issue with advertising presence of a service provider to > all users before authentication has been done? The exchanges have brought up at least three issues: a) Security. In the Request/Response model the peer announces its networks, then the AAA proxy replies with a subset of that set that it supports. In such an exchange a rogue proxy can learn the networks supported by the client, but it is harder for a rogue client to learn all the networks supported by a AAA proxy. Are the threats in one model inherently more serious than the other model? b) Scalability. As the number of supported networks grows, a Request/Response model appears to scale better than a raw announcement model. In particular, a peer may only be expected to support a relatively small number of networks, while a AAA proxy may support a great many. Therefore a Request/Response exchange can scale to a much greater degree than a pure announcement model can, without having to exceed the MTU size. c) Reachability. Given that a pure announcement model does not scale, the question is what filters need to be applied in order to allow the announcement to fit within an MTU. The document appears to assume that a "carrier" filter is being applied which prevents home AAA servers from being advertised. Glen has questioned whether this implicit roaming model is articulated in the document, and whether that model is consistent with RFC 2194 and RFC 2477. > 2) Do not we do it today via SSID or PLMN ID etc? Do not the hotpsot > operator try to announce themselve by trying to have a specific SSID for > their customers and broadcasting it (it has its issues but they are > relevant to this discussion). The hotspot operators can even announce > their roaming partners today by using multiple SSIDs. Today there are a number of models in use for SSID discovery/announcement. For example, some vendors support both announced and "hidden" SSIDs. Announced SSIDs are sent in Beacons, along with capabilities. "Hidden" networks can only be discovered via a Probe Request/Response. So I think the answer today is that *both* the broadcast and request/response exchanges are supported. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From FinnMAJBR@nsu.ru Sun Feb 13 22:16:20 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20410 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-24-23-115-167.client.comcast.net ([24.23.115.167]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0X3U-0006Ac-0W for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:37:49 -0500 X-Message-Info: AV478Zmfcax8KJ627oPicRM9BwJAhrBOhshE2AAUQQ6EB Received: from elyAmyofibrilmoore (FC.13.32A.CE) by mail2.FinnMAJBR@nsu.ru (Bluewin AG 8.9.CA3) id 14DF6VDF6FZP425F4DR5A905 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:07:20 +0400 Message-ID: <73F2A432577C2.34D40@FinnMAJBR@nsu.ru> Reply-To: "Nadine militate" From: "Nadine militate" To: "Eap-archive" Subject: re: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:07:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--D66653EE8D6DA0DA" X-Spam-Score: 16.4 (++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ----D66653EE8D6DA0DA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2CC1-B" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lpa
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"which I claim can be taken as an example for the implementation of artifi= ciality or ""naturalistic"" machines in our everyday life" Collective intelligence could lead to associations of an ultimate chaos wi= th everyone just pursuing their own luck or turning into some undistinguis= hable magma of merging individuals. To avoid this Linn=E6us knew nothing, of his own observation, of the man-like Apes of ei= ther Africa or Asia, but a dissertation by his pupil Hoppius in the "Am=9C= nitates Academic=E6" (VI. "Anthropomorpha") may be regarded as embodying h= is views respecting these animals. Fig. 1=96Simi=E6 magnatum delici=E6.=96De Bry, 1598. MOOs they claim to be talking on behalf of nature a Turing Machine can perform any operation that a contemporary computer ca= n perform. It might not always work as fast as you would like ----D66653EE8D6DA0DA-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 13 22:28:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21299 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA00204A2; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C81620561; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:28:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789F220561 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62D4204A2 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D0WtO-0009aE-Rr; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:27:22 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1E3RLM24341; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:27:21 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: "Bari, Farooq" Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > My response > 1. Bigco can have its employee's handsets/laptops provisioned with > a list of its preferred roaming partners lists which in this case would > include Consort.com. I think the question is what assumptions this document makes about how AAA proxy routing tables are transformed into EAP network announcements. Essentially, what is being defined here is a peer-AAA proxy routing protocol into which static AAA proxy routes are redistributed. Once the peer obtains the routing table, it uses it to form the "source routes" utilized within the NAI. Multiple issues are brought up by Glen's comments: a) Is the roaming model proposed by the document adequately specified and analyzed? b) Does the proposed model scale? What are its limitations? > One possible scenario is that: > The Bigco employee with her Bigco credentials tries to authenticate > herself. Megatel does not recognize her It would be more clear if you described the scenario in terms of the entries present in the AAA proxy routing table and the ensuing announcements. Are you saying that a bigco.com entry is present in the routing table, but that this document specifies that a "filter" is to be applied to that entry so that it is not announced? Or are you saying that the entry is not present at all, and therefore is not announced? There is a considerable difference between these two scenarios. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 01:19:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03556 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8E7205CE; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E608320525; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:19:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DBA20525 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:18:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE9C204A2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0C089871; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:18:16 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42104252.60802@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com, Glen Zorn Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:16:50 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: > It seems that the crux of the issue here is the appropriateness of the > network disclosure mechanisms. > > For example, as I understand it in 802.11u, there is a proposal whereby > the STA would disclose the networks with which it has a relationship in > the Probe Request, and the AP would respond with the subset of that list > that it supports in the Probe Response. > > The discovery mechanism in this draft is somewhat different: the AAA > proxy discloses its roaming relationships to the peer without the peer > first indicating what networks it supports. > > The questions this issue raises are: > > 1. Is the disclosure negotiation described in this document appropriate? > What are the security implications? > > 2. Does the document need to be modified so as to have the peer indicate > the networks it supports? There may be a difference with regards to the type of service being offered. In private networks (company X) we are likely to want some secrecy and limit login attemps from outsiders as a matter of principle. In a commercial networks (public network access from operator Y), in principle, we would likely want just as many customers as we can get. Of course, the security of the underlying link layer attachment procedures and the used authentication methods affects the above a lot. In a world with perfect protocols, none of this would matter, really, because outsiders could not get in or even cause DoS. But even in that world, corporate network managers would probably want to limit things, just to be sure. Does the draft explain enough about its area of applicability? I suppose it is primarily intended for public network access? Glen, would it help if more text was added about this? Privacy of the networks also comes into the question. Some networks may wish to stay private. As far as I know we don't have good support for network-side privacy in our protocols. But it probably makes sense for a network that wants privacy to NOT use its own virtual SSID or announce its presence in Farid's list of roaming networks. Does the draft talk about this? We also have different types of solutions. The networks can announce what's available, either in the form of different SSIDs or through the roaming relationship advertisements suggested here. Or the clients can announce what they have and then the network can act based on that. I'm not sure which one is better. Both have issues: clients announcing what they have might enable some attacks against the clients or lose some of the privacy we have (oh, you're a member of Cisco and Seattle city and IETF... hmm... you must be...). And the network announcing what it has may lead to disclosure of too much information about the network. Finally, even if we don't do anything its probably easy to probe at least some of this information anyway. Say, its quite likely that a random access point offers roaming via Vodafone (just to pick the name of a big operator) or corporate access to the IBM network (just to pick a large company). The best suggestion that I can come up with is to document these issues in the draft and to state the applicability limits of the proposed mechanisms. Does anyone have other suggestions? Glen, would this help resolve your issue? --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 01:26:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04134 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5504204A2; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9E9205B9; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC45205B9 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (fmr18.intel.com [134.134.136.17]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6F8204A2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1E6PvTs009452; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:25:57 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1E6Pvah005182; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:25:57 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021322255703149 ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:25:57 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:25:57 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUSQx9aynr3AZueSVC0/kw+LryRxAAD73NQ From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: , "Bari, Farooq" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2005 06:25:57.0206 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B14B760:01C5125E] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:25:56 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bernard, all Please see my comments in line. Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:13 PM > To: Bari, Farooq > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 >=20 > > I do not claim myself to be a security expert. The=20 > fundamental question > > that I ask, is if it is fair thing to ask a service provider not to > > announce its presence when by the very nature of its=20 > business it needs > > to announce its presence to the maximum number of current=20 > and potential > > future customers? >=20 > It seems fair to enable the maximum degree of connectivity --=20 > but this is > not the same as requiring that a AAA proxy announce its routing table > beyond the boundaries of the routing system. Based on some of the > exchanges, my understanding is that there is some implicit "filtering" > that is to occur in the route announcements so that not all routes are > actually announced to the client. But it is not clear to me from the > discussion exactly how this filter is defined, and what the=20 > impact is on > global reachability. >=20 Three are a few things to note: (1) AAA proxy announcement does NOT happen always. If the AAA proxy knows how to route @Bigco.com, then it will go ahead and do it - i.e., no network announcement! For example, AAA proxy may have a direct business relationship with Bigco.com. =20 (2) "filtering" could be done based on the realm part of the user's NAI. When the local AAA proxy (that does not have a direct roaming relationship with bigco.com) receives a AAA packet for a user of bigco.com, it is possible for the AAA proxy to know which of its roaming partners can route the packet to bigco.com, and hence it announces only those roaming partners. (3) Glen also suggested that "filtering" can be done by having the user to announce the roaming partners of its home operator. But, I see some problems with this method: (a) Would operators be happy with this method? That is, having the client reveal all their roaming partners to any access network? (b) This method does not seem to work well when "manual selection" is used. The "manual selection" refers to a usage model where a list of networks appears on the screen, and the user selects one (based on some prior knowledge). (c) Let's say the user announces a, b, c networks, and it turns out the AAA proxy also supports a, b, c networks and therefore it announces a, b, c. So, in this case, it does not make any difference! > > 1) What is the issue with advertising presence of a service=20 > provider to > > all users before authentication has been done? >=20 > The exchanges have brought up at least three issues: >=20 > a) Security. In the Request/Response model the peer announces its > networks, then the AAA proxy replies with a subset of that set that it > supports. In such an exchange a rogue proxy can learn the networks > supported by the client, but it is harder for a rogue client=20 > to learn all > the networks supported by a AAA proxy. Are the threats in one model > inherently more serious than the other model? I guess the question is that what harms a rogue client can do once it learns the roaming partners of an access network? Did we miss any attack scenarios in the security section? >=20 > b) Scalability. As the number of supported networks grows, a > Request/Response model appears to scale better than a raw > announcement model. In particular, a peer may only be=20 > expected to support > a relatively small number of networks, while a AAA proxy may support a > great many. Therefore a Request/Response exchange can scale to a much > greater degree than a pure announcement model can, without having to > exceed the MTU size. >=20 =20 A Request/Response model can be added as an option to the draft -- and it would be upto the operators if they want to implement it in their clients. =20 BTW, I thought the WG decided to position this draft as a short-term solution (to mainly address 3GPP needs) while waiting for IEEE 11u (or whatever) for more secure, scalable, and efficient (layer-2 based) solution? =20 > c) Reachability. Given that a pure announcement model does=20 > not scale, the > question is what filters need to be applied in order to allow the > announcement to fit within an MTU. The document appears to=20 > assume that a > "carrier" filter is being applied which prevents home AAA servers from > being advertised. =20 How did you infer that? If the AAA proxy can route the packet directly to the home network, there won't be any announcement. That is, the proposed solution will NOT be exercised. >Glen has questioned whether this implicit=20 > roaming model > is articulated in the document, and whether that model is=20 > consistent with > RFC 2194 and RFC 2477. >=20 Or, we can reverse the question: Why isn't the proposed solution consistent with the RFCs? > > 2) Do not we do it today via SSID or PLMN ID etc? Do not the hotpsot > > operator try to announce themselve by trying to have a=20 > specific SSID for > > their customers and broadcasting it (it has its issues but they are > > relevant to this discussion). The hotspot operators can=20 > even announce > > their roaming partners today by using multiple SSIDs. >=20 > Today there are a number of models in use for SSID=20 > discovery/announcement. > For example, some vendors support both announced and "hidden" SSIDs. > Announced SSIDs are sent in Beacons, along with capabilities.=20 > "Hidden" > networks can only be discovered via a Probe Request/Response.=20 > So I think > the answer today is that *both* the broadcast and request/response > exchanges are supported. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 02:26:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28183 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CEA205CF; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B63C205B9; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71780205B9 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail11.cingular.com [170.35.225.26]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698FB204A2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.241.196]) by extmail11.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYHG4.19101844; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:25:20 -0500 Received: from scentmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall2.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1E7PLcN008116; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.242]) by scentmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22304; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:18 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model Thread-Index: AcUSRSpuwAlOqLVtQuaUYCammVYbwQAHglaw From: "Bari, Farooq" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2005 07:25:18.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[55C6C020:01C51266] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:25:17 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pls see my comments below > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:aboba@internaut.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:27 PM > To: Bari, Farooq > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 287: Roaming Model >=20 > > My response > > 1. Bigco can have its employee's handsets/laptops provisioned with > > a list of its preferred roaming partners lists which in this case would > > include Consort.com. >=20 > I think the question is what assumptions this document makes about how AAA > proxy routing tables are transformed into EAP network announcements. > Essentially, what is being defined here is a peer-AAA proxy routing > protocol into which static AAA proxy routes are redistributed. Once the > peer obtains the routing table, it uses it to form the "source routes" > utilized within the NAI. >=20 > Multiple issues are brought up by Glen's comments: >=20 > a) Is the roaming model proposed by the document adequately specified and > analyzed? >=20 I believe so. The draft however to my understanding is more for ABNF. There were discussion on the roaming models etc. in the earlier versions of draft and they were discussed in IETF as well as in other forums. They were taken out on Chair's suggestion from later versions of the draft. > b) Does the proposed model scale? What are its limitations? >=20 It will work well for what it is being aimed for - I think this issue was brought and discussed quite thoroughly in the past IETF meetings but maybe an applicability statement is needed so that people reading the draft understand its intended applicability. It certainly can not solve and is not designed to solve world hunger problem :-)). > > One possible scenario is that: > > The Bigco employee with her Bigco credentials tries to authenticate > > herself. Megatel does not recognize her >=20 > It would be more clear if you described the scenario in terms of the > entries present in the AAA proxy routing table and the ensuing > announcements. Are you saying that a bigco.com entry is present in the > routing table, but that this document specifies that a "filter" is to be > applied to that entry so that it is not announced? Or are you saying that > the entry is not present at all, and therefore is not announced? There is > a considerable difference between these two scenarios. What I am indicating is that based on a number of possible reasons, the first message sent to the network from the client may already have a decoration to indicate a preferred network. For example if I go to Europe and BT is my preferred partner in Europe, I can change my client settings to by default try to use BT as the middle man. In that case my initial message will be decorated with BT info. If the hotspot operator has a relationship with BT, then there will be no advertisement. But this is all client behaviour and not something that needs to go into the draft. Also please note these advertisement do not always happen but only happen when the user message is not routable by the AAA proxy. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From FelyCyril@inside.net Mon Feb 14 03:01:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01986; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:01:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502140801.DAA01986@ietf.org> Received: from [66.178.52.113] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0bVI-00038H-4H; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:22:50 -0500 Received: from mail.infinite.net (66.178.52.113) by 66.178.52.113 (areawidev.8) with SMTP id <13460u82f> (Authid: 151); Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:01:01 -0600 Reply-To: "Isabells Herbert.New" From: "Isabells Herbert.New" To: e3@ietf.org Cc: eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, entmib-admin@ietf.org, entmib-request@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org, enum-archive@ietf.org Subject: FWD[2]: Home Purchase Query [TT2006LD] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:00:01 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--943548_960310.8Pz469" X-Spam-Score: 13.0 (+++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 ----943548_960310.8Pz469 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Applicant, Your application was processed and approved. 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Isabells Herbert.New, Account Manager TJK Associates r.mv - http://homeloanon.com/st.html ----943548_960310.8Pz469-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 05:46:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA13551 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2CB205E6; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEB0205E2; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8F7205E2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2CF205E3 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454AC89884; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:45:01 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <421080D8.4070707@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:43:36 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some further thoughts. You wrote: > For example, as I understand it in 802.11u, there is a proposal whereby > the STA would disclose the networks with which it has a relationship in > the Probe Request, and the AP would respond with the subset of that list > that it supports in the Probe Response. > > The discovery mechanism in this draft is somewhat different: the AAA > proxy discloses its roaming relationships to the peer without the peer > first indicating what networks it supports. Given that the probe request and response are not authenticated, it would seem that the security of the two approaches differs only in terms of requiring active vs. passive attackers, and maybe in scalability for attackers. Someone who wants to determine what networks are available could presumably spoof a Probe Request with a set of potential victim network names. Or am I missing something? The main difference appears to be that the attackers have to be active before they can discover the information. (Passive attackers may also be able to collect some information from other client's requests and associated responses.) The scalability of attacks is also interesting. In theory, network-side advertisements are nice for attackers, because they can get a lot of exact information. With client-side requests, the attackers would have to probe for the information a few networks at a time. Advertisements are more effective when there are a lot of interesting networks for the attackers. If the number of interesting networks is small, the difference is not that big. Also, the scalability limitations of Farid's draft limit the difference too; only a handful of networks can be advertised. This limits the mechanism in practise to roaming consortiums and few top-level operators. It would be unthinkable to announce thousands of corporate networks via this mechanism, for instance. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 05:46:19 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA13570 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF32D205D8; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCC4205E8; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:08 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEDB1205E2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289A3205D8 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A7F89884; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:45:32 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <421080F7.7030304@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adrangi, Farid" Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:44:07 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Farid, Looking only at your alternative 3 below ... > 3) Assuming that this is okay, why would there be a need for AAA or AP > network advertisement? For example, the peer (user@anyisp.com) can > indicate its route preferences in EAP-Identity/Response as follows: > > user@anyisp.com; anyisp.com!user@isp1; anyisp.com!user@isp2; > anyisp.com!user@isp3 ... I just wanted to point out that doing this would probably break NASes that expect to see a NAI and suddenly run into a ';'. (This may be OK if you are using this only as a last resort, but then you have probably tried all the four alternatives already. It isn't clear to me that this would help any more at that stage.) --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 05:46:23 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA13591 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465BE205FD; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32108205F2; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B367205E2 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABE5205D8 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DF189897; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:45:44 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42108104.6080102@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bari, Farooq" Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:44:20 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bari, Farooq wrote: > 2) Do not we do it today via SSID or PLMN ID etc? Do not the hotpsot > operator try to announce themselve by trying to have a specific SSID for > their customers and broadcasting it (it has its issues but they are > relevant to this discussion). The hotspot operators can even announce > their roaming partners today by using multiple SSIDs. The use of virtual SSIDs is probably similar to what is being proposed here, in that the presence of a network is published and that there are fundamental limits to how many such networks will in practise be published. That is, both would probably be used in a commercial setting to highlight the existence of a few large commercial entities, rather than a hundred thousand served corporate networks. I think Bernard mentioned that hidden SSIDs are possible. The same is possible in the advertisement scheme as well, by not advertising all partners... not sure if the draft mentions this case though. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From kellyann-hinz@tiozzoscavi.com Mon Feb 14 05:56:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA15363; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:56:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0eF0-0006hW-AC; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:18:15 -0500 Received: from [213.37.34.131] (helo=131.red-213-37-34.user.auna.net) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D0dtx-0006i5-AW; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:56:26 -0500 Received: from mailer61.vndi.com (213.37.34.131) by 213.37.34.131 (kerrv.225) with SMTP id <191735rq18vrf>; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:58:25 -0100 Reply-To: "chihchien brannen" From: "chihchien brannen" To: pr-wg@ietf.org Cc: eap-archive@ietf.org, tsvwg-request@ietf.org, usic-admin@ietf.org, policy@ietf.org, vrrp@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, mailman-owner@ietf.org, sip-security@ietf.org, rohc@ietf.org Subject: Congratulations, You've Been Approved Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:55:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--3970360_72892260.3Z85" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 ----3970360_72892260.3Z85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello Account #8900704, Your application was approved. 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It is = difficult for me to understand why IESG has these rules that = practically reset everything that has happened with the draft since it = got introduced long time back and require authors to satisfy everyone = again from the very beginning on fundamental questions that were dealt = with longtime back and are hard to explain/resolve/convey over = emails................... A very brief response (which I am sure can not staisfy you and obviously = can not because discussion on this topic is something that has always = taken a long time to converge) is, the draft does not mandate anything = on the part of the service provider. It is about ABNF. The information = on roaming partners is just a hint for the client device about hotspot = operators own roaming partners, and no where does it say it has to be an = exhaustive list of all of its roaming partners roaming partners partner = etc..IT is not tryin g to solve world hunger problem. The service = provider, can also choose not to advertise any of its partners, a couple = of them or all of them if there are a handful. This draft is NOT trying = to address your thousands of roaming coprorate partners scenarios but = is to be used by 3GPP SPs. Again this roaming partner information is = just a hint and I am not sure why people expect this draft to solve = everyone's roaming issues and problems with all the scalability to = handle n possible mediating partners etc. ...... to be honest I am not = sure if some one can design such a solution that satisfies everyone's = roaming dreams. BR, Farooq > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Chang [mailto:eugene.chang@funk.com] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 7:46 AM > To: gwz@cisco.com; Bari, Farooq; 'Adrangi, Farid'; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on = draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 > Farid, > I am sorry to be catching up with the weekend mail. > Glen points out an example that is often overlooked. There are many = cases > where the "home AAA" is the enterprise and not a public provider. This > provides a significant increase in the number of home AAA. Further, = the > enterprises that fall into this category provide a large number of = roaming > users so we should not be minimizing this scenario. >=20 > I really would like to see an explanation of how this the network = discovery > scheme works in a global context. I can understand how it works with a = small > set of bilateral arrangements but I thing the scheme does not scale. >=20 > Gene >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Eugene Y. Chang > Funk Software > voice=A0=A0 1-617-497-6339 x244 > fax=A0=A0=A0=A0 1-617-547-1031 > mobile=A0 1-781-799-0233 > AIM=A0=A0=A0=A0 gene02421 > Skype gene02421 > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@funk.com > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@ieee.org > --------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:46 AM > To: gwz@cisco.com; 'Bari, Farooq'; 'Adrangi, Farid'; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 > Glen Zorn (gwz) supposedly scribbled: >=20 > > OK, now that we've established that the security properties of > WLANs > > are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq > had > > pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot of > > time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further > discussion > > of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be > listed > > in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts > with > > Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when > they > > are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming partner > of > > Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the > > world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries to > > access the network. >=20 > Should have mentioned, using her Bigco.com user ID. >=20 > >How does that work? Does it work at all? >=20 > BTW, this example is from Real Life -- the names have been changed > to protect the innocent -- and is the simplest example of enterprise > roaming/remote access I can think of. There are _much_ more complex > examples, also from Real Life. >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > ~gwz >=20 > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by > simply > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From lwwgc@go2.pl Mon Feb 14 13:23:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29676; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0lDB-0000T9-Lz; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:44:46 -0500 Received: from m23.net81-65-150.noos.fr ([81.65.150.23]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D0ksG-0007xG-EU; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:23:09 -0500 Delivered-To: mailing list lwwgc@go2.pl Received: from desk.crynwr.com (208.209.40.72) by ERam.NOynwr.com with SMTP; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:14:07 -0300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:14:07 -0500 From: "Andy English" To: Subject: Show what you know with a degr3e X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 WHAT A GREAT IDEA! 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If you prefer not to receive such offers go here: http://www.freeinfoisnomore.info/r.php From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 14:33:12 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05239 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C71C205FE; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE5B20612; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:33:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF59C20612 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00AE205FE for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:32:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Feb 2005 14:31:16 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-212.cisco.com [10.82.224.212]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1EJVChF019583; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:31:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502141931.j1EJVChF019583@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Bari, Farooq'" Cc: , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUSrKZox4ayUYcCT96EzqynE1gTJAABJJgAAAW/BuA= In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:31:12 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bari, Farooq <> supposedly scribbled: > Hi Eugene, > > All I can say is that you are not catching up on your weekend emails > but on last two years worth of discussions in EAP WG :)) on the > draft. It is difficult for me to understand why IESG has these rules > that practically reset everything that has happened with the draft > since it got introduced long time back and require authors to satisfy > everyone again from the very beginning on fundamental questions that > were dealt with longtime back and are hard to explain/resolve/convey > over emails................... > > A very brief response (which I am sure can not staisfy you and > obviously can not because discussion on this topic is something that > has always taken a long time to converge) is, the draft does not > mandate anything on the part of the service provider. It is about > ABNF. Here are some ideas: put the ABNF on a billboard in Times Square; buy full-page ads in the New York Times, Der Spiegel, etc. There are more, none of which involves using the IETF as little more than a medium for announcement. > The information on roaming partners is just a hint for the > client device about hotspot operators own roaming partners, No. it's not; it's a command. If the client doesn't accept your "hint" it will be disconnected, right? Further, the fact that the AAA proxy or EAP server or whatever is capable of providing a useful hint at all means that it knows a route to the home network. Why send a hint at all, then, instead of just forwarding the message? ... Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 14 15:37:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15335 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616D3205FE; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B161920613; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:37:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBEE20613 for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail09.cingular.com [170.35.225.24]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75CE205FE for ; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.42.163]) by extmail09.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYGZ6.19145148; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:35:54 -0500 Received: from neastmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1EKZrMX018930; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.242]) by neastmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16172; Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH02-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:35:53 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: Comments on draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt Thread-Index: AcUSynJ0l7Q4VDPzS32auj/lxugQYgACg48g From: "Bari, Farooq" To: "Eugene Chang" , , "Adrangi, Farid" , Cc: "Lortz, Victor" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2005 20:35:53.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6F726E0:01C512D4] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:35:52 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eugene, Your comment about applicability is quite valid and was also requested = by Joe - we do plan to update the draft for it. BR, Farooq > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Chang [mailto:eugene.chang@funk.com] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:19 AM > To: Bari, Farooq; Eugene Chang; gwz@cisco.com; Adrangi, Farid; = iesg@ietf.org > Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on = draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt >=20 > Farooq, > Thanks for your reply. >=20 > 1- It would be very helpful if the scope being addressed be stated. It = seems > very natural to read an RFC as an absolute statement to a problem = unless the > limits are explicit. >=20 > 2- What is ironic to me is that in a subscribers "home region" where = the > home network has the most influence, the proposed solutions works = well. This > is the very scenario that the proposed solution may not be needed. = When the > subscriber is traveling far from home, the very situation the proposed > solution is most valuable; it is likely that the proposed solution = will not > be helpful. >=20 > I have watched the discussion for a long time. With all the issues I = have > seen mentioned (again) in the last three days, I am surprised that, = the > draft has not changes to explicitly narrowed the focus to define some = of the > issues out-of-bounds or to have changed to broadened the solution's > effectiveness to address more of the issues. >=20 > Gene >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Eugene Y. Chang > Funk Software > voice=A0=A0 1-617-497-6339 x244 > fax=A0=A0=A0=A0 1-617-547-1031 > mobile=A0 1-781-799-0233 > AIM=A0=A0=A0=A0 gene02421 > Skype gene02421 > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@funk.com > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@ieee.org > --------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bari, Farooq [mailto:Farooq.Bari@cingular.com] > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:51 AM > > To: Eugene Chang; gwz@cisco.com; Adrangi, Farid; iesg@ietf.org > > Cc: Lortz, Victor; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on = draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery- > > 07.txt > > > > Hi Eugene, > > > > All I can say is that you are not catching up on your weekend emails = but > > on last two years worth of discussions in EAP WG :)) on the draft. = It is > > difficult for me to understand why IESG has these rules that = practically > > reset everything that has happened with the draft since it got = introduced > > long time back and require authors to satisfy everyone again from = the very > > beginning on fundamental questions that were dealt with longtime = back and > > are hard to explain/resolve/convey over emails................... > > > > A very brief response (which I am sure can not staisfy you and = obviously > > can not because discussion on this topic is something that has = always > > taken a long time to converge) is, the draft does not mandate = anything on > > the part of the service provider. It is about ABNF. The information = on > > roaming partners is just a hint for the client device about hotspot > > operators own roaming partners, and no where does it say it has to = be an > > exhaustive list of all of its roaming partners roaming partners = partner > > etc..IT is not tryin g to solve world hunger problem. The service > > provider, can also choose not to advertise any of its partners, a = couple > > of them or all of them if there are a handful. This draft is NOT = trying to > > address your thousands of roaming coprorate partners scenarios but = is to > > be used by 3GPP SPs. Again this roaming partner information is just = a hint > > and I am not sure why people expect this draft to solve everyone's = roaming > > issues and problems with all the scalability to handle n possible > > mediating partners etc. ...... to be honest I am not sure if some = one can > > design such a solution that satisfies everyone's roaming dreams. > > > > > > BR, > > > > Farooq > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Chang [mailto:eugene.chang@funk.com] > > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 7:46 AM > > > To: gwz@cisco.com; Bari, Farooq; 'Adrangi, Farid'; iesg@ietf.org > > > Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > > > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on = draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery- > > 07.txt > > > > > > Farid, > > > I am sorry to be catching up with the weekend mail. > > > Glen points out an example that is often overlooked. There are = many > > cases > > > where the "home AAA" is the enterprise and not a public provider. = This > > > provides a significant increase in the number of home AAA. = Further, the > > > enterprises that fall into this category provide a large number of > > roaming > > > users so we should not be minimizing this scenario. > > > > > > I really would like to see an explanation of how this the network > > discovery > > > scheme works in a global context. I can understand how it works = with a > > small > > > set of bilateral arrangements but I thing the scheme does not = scale. > > > > > > Gene > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Eugene Y. Chang > > > Funk Software > > > voice=A0=A0 1-617-497-6339 x244 > > > fax=A0=A0=A0=A0 1-617-547-1031 > > > mobile=A0 1-781-799-0233 > > > AIM=A0=A0=A0=A0 gene02421 > > > Skype gene02421 > > > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@funk.com > > > email=A0=A0 eugene.chang@ieee.org > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:46 AM > > > To: gwz@cisco.com; 'Bari, Farooq'; 'Adrangi, Farid'; iesg@ietf.org > > > Cc: 'Lortz, Victor'; Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com; eap@frascone.com > > > Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Comments on > > > draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-07.txt > > > > > > Glen Zorn (gwz) supposedly scribbled: > > > > > > > OK, now that we've established that the security properties of > > > WLANs > > > > are identical to those of cellular networks (I wish that Farooq > > > had > > > > pointed this out several years ago -- it would have saved a lot = of > > > > time in 802.11i), I guess we can dispense with any further > > > discussion > > > > of such things. Furthermore, no enterprise networks will be > > > listed > > > > in the hints, just SPs. Suppose, then, that Bigco.com contracts > > > with > > > > Consort.com to provide remote access for Bigco's employees when > > > they > > > > are traveling. Suppose also that Consort.com is a roaming = partner > > > of > > > > Megatel.com, which operates hotspots in coffeehouses around the > > > > world. A Bigco employee walks into a Megatel hotspot and tries = to > > > > access the network. > > > > > > Should have mentioned, using her Bigco.com user ID. > > > > > > >How does that work? Does it work at all? > > > > > > BTW, this example is from Real Life -- the names have been changed > > > to protect the innocent -- and is the simplest example of = enterprise > > > roaming/remote access I can think of. There are _much_ more = complex > > > examples, also from Real Life. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > > > ~gwz > > > > > > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by > > > simply > > > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel > > > _______________________________________________ > > > eap mailing list > > > eap@frascone.com > > > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Goldenfgkgm@yap.com.au Tue Feb 15 02:56:41 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01675; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 02:56:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [218.38.88.139] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D0xuW-0005WA-Sk; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:18:24 -0500 Received: from vilaweb.com ([66.160.155.54]) by lucifer.online.sh.cn (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 261-787-253 license 4ss969wy7569x5fh4h3win2012q0ezy0) with ESMTP id <05152689800121.JMLZ295.vanish@vilaweb.com> for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 06:58:47 -0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:54:47 +0300 Received: from 203.86.166.58 by laxative.joel.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:50:47 +0300 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.221.8.44] X-Originating-Email: [syndrome@vilaweb.com] From: "Patsy Marcum" To: rafts@ietf.org Subject: Re : Is she looking for love Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:53:47 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:52:47 +0300 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A4XEE00:08L80216] X-Spam-Score: 6.9 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable




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If you prefer not to receive such offers go here: http://www.freeinfoisnomore.info/r.php From obtlslbheav@ai.net Tue Feb 15 08:18:18 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29212; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D12vr-0004Ql-Ay; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:40:05 -0500 Received: from aamiens-151-1-43-215.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr ([83.192.184.215]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D12aY-0004xK-Oc; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:18:06 -0500 Received: from SJRNW-VE87 (83.192.184.215) by 83.192.184.215; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:17:30 -0800 From: "Staint Jeannine Clinic" To: avt-request@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bridge-mib@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org Subject: Outstanding Rx Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:17:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0ZL_05R7570NF_03G.642Z19B0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: VQWHP Mail v9.4 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d094b18a574860cb9e2fe5fedfbcc179 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0ZL_05R7570NF_03G.642Z19B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00SK_05V6620AT_05N.866Y46J0" ------=0_00SK_05V6620AT_05N.866Y46J0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://xomybzeggdc.spam-cash.net/?wid=209111 Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. Dancing is silent poetry. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. A man can't be too careful in the choice of his enemies. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. Everyone is a genius at least once a year; a real genius has his original ideas closer together. Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Opportun ity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. Don't be so humble - you are not that great. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare necessity. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. When ideas fail, words come in very handy. In the end, everything is a gag. If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. The Babylon project was our last, best hop e for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it. In the end, everything is a gag. Sleep is an excellent way of listening to an opera. The mistakes are all waiting to be made. The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. Hatch a dream and then believe it. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. Compassion alone stands apart from the continuous traffic between good and evil proceeding within us. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Many a man's reputation would not know his character if they met on the street. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. Moral indignation i s jealousy with a halo. The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart. Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Dancing is silent poetry. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. While we are postponing, life speeds by. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. While we are postponing, life speeds by. ------=0_00SK_05V6620AT_05N.866Y46J0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D"" Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences= it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, he= aring, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children s= hort on pocket money - but long on hugs. The problem with some people is t= hat when they aren't drunk, they're sober. Before I got married I had six = theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theori= es. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to bui= ld bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to prod= uce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. Whatever ou= r souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Life is pleasant. Death is= peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. I heard someone tried t= he monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but = all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. Dancing is silent p= oetry. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they'r= e sober. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up childre= n; now I have six children and no theories. When solving problems, dig at = the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. How wrong it is for a wom= an to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create i= t herself. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. A ma= n can't be too careful in the choice of his enemies. I have often regrette= d my speech, never my silence. When solving problems, dig at the roots ins= tead of just hacking at the leaves. The only way to get rid of a temptatio= n is to yield to it. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hu= rrying near. Everyone is a genius at least once a year; a real genius has = his original ideas closer together. Victory goes to the player who makes t= he next-to-last mistake. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect c= an only advise his clients to plant vines. In the End, we will remember no= t the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Opportunity is= missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like wo= rk. Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. I have not failed. I've jus= t found 10,000 ways that won't work. There is more stupidity than hydrogen= in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. Don't be so humble - you= are not that great. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare= necessity. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks be= hind. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yoursel= f, in your way of thinking. When ideas fail, words come in very handy. In = the end, everything is a gag. If you can count your money, you don't have = a billion dollars. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned populat= ion by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe th= an the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and a= rmies cannot stand. You can only find truth with logic if you have already= found truth without it. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. A w= oman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Th= e significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of think= ing we were at when we created them. Without question, the greatest invent= ion in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was = also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza= A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both= A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both= Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when = there is nothing left to take away. Programming today is a race between so= ftware engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs,= and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the = Universe is winning. Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed. = A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her.= The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. B= ut in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, be= st hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Perfection = is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is noth= ing left to take away. From the moment I picked your book up until I laid = it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it. In th= e end, everything is a gag. Sleep is an excellent way of listening to an o= pera. The mistakes are all waiting to be made. The full use of your power= s along lines of excellence. Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of = producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. The significant = problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at= when we created them. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experie= nces it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight= , hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your childr= en short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Before I got married I had si= x theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theo= ries. Hatch a dream and then believe it. It is much more comfortable to be= mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. Compassion alone = stands apart from the continuous traffic between good and evil proceeding = within us. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. Three o'clo= ck is always too late or too early for anything you want to do. An inconve= nience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconve= nience rightly considered. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothi= ng more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. I have often = regretted my speech, never my silence. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for = snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. = Many a man's reputation would not know his character if they met on the st= reet. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. M= oral indignation is jealousy with a halo. The true measure of a man is how= he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. Only two things are = infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the for= mer. I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be l= iving apart. Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. = Dancing is silent poetry. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he st= ands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times o= f challenge and controversy. Whether you think that you can, or that you c= an't, you are usually right. The problem with the world is that everyone i= s a few drinks behind. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can= only advise his clients to plant vines. While we are postponing, life spe= eds by. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. Anyon= e who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of cou= rse, in a state of sin. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they= wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. = While we are postponing, life speeds by.=20 ------=0_00SK_05V6620AT_05N.866Y46J0-- ------=0ZL_05R7570NF_03G.642Z19B0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="txxro.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <235952c4d3c0$2180fea0$499aa1c0@LQPOSZVIM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAACQAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAABD9AAAnuAAAS5L/2wCEABQRERoTGioZGSo1KCEoNTEpKCgpMUE4ODg4OEFERERERERE REREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREQBFhoaIh0iKRoaKTkpIik5RDktLTlEREREOERE RERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERP/CABEIAfQBTgMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xADVAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAECBAUGBwEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFEAACAgIB BAEDBAIDAAMAAAABAgADEQQSECETBTEgFBUwQSIGMiMzJDRAUBYRAAEDAgMFBgIGCAUCBwEAAAEA EQIhMUESAxBRYXEiIIGRoTITscHw0UJSYgQw4XKCorLCI/GSM9MUQHNQ0lNjg5OjwxIAAQMCAggE BQMFAQAAAAAAAQARAiExQRIQIDBAUWGBIlDwcaGR0TJCA2CxweFSYsITU//aAAwDAQACEQMRAAAA 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B90frNf3QVpkSfMGlxBi58D8FPTj6pDp5io81LPEOaThKlR4t4FRjEBwMsYxqz3qQHJYYBlp6RuN KL8zKZPxUSNPAH1S+tRgaH2ofzTUSNPAH1S+tGDYM2zNOAJ32PiKr+3AA77nxKA1o5iLVI+BCpp0 /al9abTjlBv9CvfjD+4TmJc33s7eSY7Pc0YZZb3PzKjHXjmMHy1IZ+RCOmYjIRly8CpDTgBGQaVS XHeV06f8UvrQnDTAI4k/EonTgBmBjKpNDzPwRjCAEZeqpL+K/tRyg3qT8V7etHMAXFSK9y9uEQIb ln0YZTzPzKHuQEiMcfG6fTgAd9z5ujp6gzCQYgp9GOUcyfi692UH1CzlzhwdlVZNSIkOKfSgAd9T 8XWTViJN9L3WXTiIjz8TVRjqGQyO2UtfuKGhOPRFsrYMiYOSftSv8AmWacAZb7HxFV/bgI8bnxNU Jasc0wGBcj4FMhqasM0wGBcincU3/hn/2Q== ------=0ZL_05R7570NF_03G.642Z19B0-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 11:42:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04530 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C79202E6; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:42:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440A42034F; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:42:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44162034F for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:41:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EA8202E6 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E967689883 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:41:30 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <421225E4.80601@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: <42108104.6080102@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <42108104.6080102@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:40:04 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an attempt to write some text that would address this issue. I agree that the draft should define its area of applicability better, and should talk about the security considerations of revealing network identities. Text: Add the following new text to the end of the abstract: The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for advertising connectivity to a limited number of entities that find such advertisements of their presence useful. Add the following new text before the last paragraph in Section 1. This mechanism is not generally applicable to all access networks or all home or mediating networks. Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally sufficient, and the identification hints are typically useful only when there's too much ambiquity, or when the scale of the roaming associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all access networks to all home networks. In such situations, a limited number of identity hints can be provided. Even in this case, it is required that the networks that are listed in these hints consent to such advertisements. And add this to the Security Considerations section: Any information revealed either from the network or client sides before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security risk. For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a poor authentication method can make it easier for attackers to discover that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent of the network being described in the hints is required before such hints can be sent. Comments? Would this work for people? --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 14:43:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28929 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37FA20418; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F83203A3; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:43:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0347D203A3 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:42:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D6E203A1 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D18at-000Drv-AI for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:42:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1FJgk711143 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:42:46 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:42:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) I've received several questions recently from EAP implementors: * Is it legal to send an EAP Notification as the first message in an EAP exchange? (e.g. before EAP-Request/Identity or an EAP-Request for an authentication method) * Is it legal to send an EAP Notification in response to an EAP-Response/Identity? * After negotiation of an EAP authentication method is confirmed (e.g. an EAP-Response with Type=X has been sent in response to an EAP-Request with Type=X) is it possible to send an EAP Notification if the method negotiated forbids notifications? (e.g. can a Notification be sent after the method completes, instead of Success/Failure). _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 15:37:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09482 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE03203E9; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC60020418; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:37:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C9B20418 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:36:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D08203E9 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:36:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5A189883 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:36:14 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42125CE8.4000202@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502151531.KAA13347@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502151531.KAA13347@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-ohba-multihop-eap-00.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:34:48 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : Usage Scenarios and Requirements for Multi-hop EAP Lower Layer > Author(s) : G. Giaretta, et al. > Filename : draft-ohba-multihop-eap-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2005-2-14 > > All EAP lower layers that have been defined for network access > authentication have the requirement that an EAP peer and an EAP > authenticator are in the same IP subnet. This draft describes some > scenarios where relaxing this requirement so that the EAP peer and > the EAP authenticator are multiple IP hops away from each other could > be useful or necessary. The draft also extracts a set of > requirements for the design of such a multi-hop EAP lower layer based > on the scenarios. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ohba-multihop-eap-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 15:38:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09537 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EA520434; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C789E20418; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:38:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A1E2041A for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA3820418 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEC289883 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:37:07 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42125D1D.4070102@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502151529.KAA12914@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502151529.KAA12914@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-bersani-eap-psk-07.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:35:41 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : The EAP-PSK Protocol: a Pre-Shared Key EAP Method > Author(s) : F. Bersani, H. Tschofenig > Filename : draft-bersani-eap-psk-07.txt > Pages : 55 > Date : 2005-2-14 > > This document specifies EAP-PSK, an Extensible Authentication > Protocol (EAP) method for mutual authentication and session key > derivation using a Pre-Shared Key (PSK). > EAP-PSK provides a protected communication channel when mutual > authentication is successful for both parties to communicate over. > This document describes the use of this channel only for protected > exchange of result indications, but future EAP-PSK extensions may use > the channel for other purposes. > EAP-PSK is designed for authentication over insecure networks such as > IEEE 802.11. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bersani-eap-psk-07.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 16:36:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15354 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48041FC62; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C06271FE12; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:36:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF5D1FE12 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:35:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567A41FC62 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:35:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Feb 2005 13:43:01 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,87,1107763200"; d="scan'208"; a="614685152:sNHT3915708504" Received: from gwzw2k01 (rtp-vpn1-212.cisco.com [10.82.224.212]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1FLVPhF026872; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:31:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502152131.j1FLVPhF026872@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: Cc: , Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUTfVK+LqkeqpIZTUK0LV/6vqGMuAAJjhzA In-Reply-To: <421225E4.80601@piuha.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:31:24 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jari Arkko <> supposedly scribbled: > Here's an attempt to write some text that would address this issue. I > agree that the draft should define its area of applicability better, > and should talk about the security considerations of revealing > network identities. This would work for me: I would _really_ like to end all this rather coy dancing around the subject. So, I would like the authors to explain clearly, concisely and precisely (_in the document_, not in the EAP list archives or some 3GPP document-in-progress, unless those are referenced _in the document_) what the purpose of this thing is, who is going to use it and why. Farooq has reminded us several times that this is 3GPP; OK, then put that in title: "Identity Selection in 3GPP Networks" or something. As I mentioned in an earlier message, I don't think that any of the hints are actually necessary for roaming to function, especially those in secondary identity requests. I suspect (but don't _know_, since the authors aren't telling) that this is actually to implement some kind of AAA source-routing, possibly to support some legacy model of circuit-switched accounting. OK, fine. Explain that, clearly mark it as a 3GPP thing, make it Informational and let's be done with it. > > Text: Add the following new text to the end of the abstract: > > The mechanism defined in this document is > primarily intended for advertising connectivity > to a limited number of entities that find such > advertisements of their presence useful. > > Add the following new text before the > last paragraph in Section 1. > > This mechanism is not generally applicable to > all access networks or all home or mediating networks. > Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally > sufficient, and the identification hints are typically > useful only when there's too much ambiquity, or when > the scale of the roaming associations precludes > full automatic connectivity from all access networks > to all home networks. In such situations, a limited > number of identity hints can be provided. Even > in this case, it is required that the networks that > are listed in these hints consent to such > advertisements. > > And add this to the Security Considerations section: > > Any information revealed either from the network > or client sides before authentication has occurred > can be seen as a security risk. For instance, revealing > the existence of network that uses a poor authentication > method can make it easier for attackers to discover > that such network can be accessed. As a result, > the consent of the network being described in the > hints is required before such hints can be sent. > > Comments? Would this work for people? > > --Jari > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Feb 15 16:52:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA16710 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B5B20418; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839321FE16; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:52:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DA81FE16 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:51:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEA91FC62 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1FLpYdX001184; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:51:35 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1FLorBQ031601; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:51:31 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2005021513513106430 ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:51:31 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:51:31 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUTfVK+LqkeqpIZTUK0LV/6vqGMuAAJjhzAAADhkxA= From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: Cc: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2005 21:51:31.0596 (UTC) FILETIME=[8291E4C0:01C513A8] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:51:30 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with you Glen. Eugene also requested some clarification on applicability/scalability of the solution. Will the following text work for you? And Eugene? " The immediate application of the proposed mechanism is in 3GPP systems inteworking with WLANs [XX][yy]. The roaming partner information provided via this mechanism is limited by the link layer MTU size. For example, assuming an average of 20 octets per roaming partner / home network information and the link layer MTU size of 1096, the approximate number of roaming partners that can be advertised would be 50. The scalability limitation imposed by the link layer MTU size should be taken into consideration when deploying this solution. [xx] TS.23.234 3GPP System to Wireless Local Area Network (WLAN) interworking. Stage 2. (www.3gpp.org)=20 [yy] TS.24.234 3GPP System to Wireless Local Area Network (WLAN) interworking. Stage 3. (www.3gpp.org) " BR, Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Glen Zorn (gwz) > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:31 PM > To: jari.arkko@piuha.net > Cc: eap@frascone.com; iesg@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 >=20 > Jari Arkko <> supposedly scribbled: >=20 > > Here's an attempt to write some text that would address this > issue. I > > agree that the draft should define its area of applicability > better, > > and should talk about the security considerations of revealing > > network identities.=20 >=20 > This would work for me: I would _really_ like to end all this rather > coy dancing around the subject. So, I would like the authors to > explain clearly, concisely and precisely (_in the document_, not in > the EAP list archives or some 3GPP document-in-progress, unless > those are referenced _in the document_) what the purpose of this > thing is, who is going to use it and why. Farooq has reminded us > several times that this is 3GPP; OK, then put that in title: > "Identity Selection in 3GPP Networks" or something. As I mentioned > in an earlier message, I don't think that any of the hints are > actually necessary for roaming to function, especially those in > secondary identity requests. I suspect (but don't _know_, since the > authors aren't telling) that this is actually to implement some kind > of AAA source-routing, possibly to support some legacy model of > circuit-switched accounting. OK, fine. Explain that, clearly mark > it as a 3GPP thing, make it Informational and let's be done with it. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > Text: Add the following new text to the end of the abstract: > >=20 > > The mechanism defined in this document is > > primarily intended for advertising connectivity > > to a limited number of entities that find such > > advertisements of their presence useful. > >=20 > > Add the following new text before the > > last paragraph in Section 1. > >=20 > > This mechanism is not generally applicable to > > all access networks or all home or mediating networks. > > Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally > > sufficient, and the identification hints are typically > > useful only when there's too much ambiquity, or when > > the scale of the roaming associations precludes > > full automatic connectivity from all access networks > > to all home networks. In such situations, a limited > > number of identity hints can be provided. Even > > in this case, it is required that the networks that > > are listed in these hints consent to such > > advertisements. > >=20 > > And add this to the Security Considerations section: > >=20 > > Any information revealed either from the network > > or client sides before authentication has occurred > > can be seen as a security risk. For instance, revealing > > the existence of network that uses a poor authentication > > method can make it easier for attackers to discover > > that such network can be accessed. As a result, > > the consent of the network being described in the > > hints is required before such hints can be sent. > >=20 > > Comments? Would this work for people? > >=20 > > --Jari > > _______________________________________________ > > eap mailing list > > eap@frascone.com > > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > ~gwz >=20 > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by > simply > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wo16288@126.com Tue Feb 15 20:41:21 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA11706 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:41:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502160141.UAA11706@ietf.org> Received: from [218.17.69.44] (helo=126.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1EX3-0000fH-Fn for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:03:15 -0500 From: =?GB2312?B?ye7b2si6waa/xry8?= Subject: =?GB2312?B?v+zL2deo0rXJz8PFzqzQ3rXnxNQ=?= To: eap-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html;charset="GB2312" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:40:59 +0800 X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: FoxMail 4.0 beta 2 [cn] X-Spam-Score: 7.3 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 ÎÞ±êÌâÎĵµ
 
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------=_NextPart_000_0014_0951B387.248597E0-- From lhzajntinqn@go2.pl Wed Feb 16 07:42:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03167; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:42:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [218.51.112.82] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1OqW-0002cy-Uo; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:04:05 -0500 Delivered-To: mailing list lhzajntinqn@go2.pl Received: from desk.crynwr.com (122.72.232.192) by GAam.ISynwr.com with SMTP; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:33:52 -0400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:39:52 +0300 From: "Kim Grant" To: Subject: Don't know if this helps but... X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 X-Spam-Score: 10.7 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 There was never a better time to refinance your home. Rates are at a 40 year low. Now more than ever you should grab the opportunity to gain financial security for yourself and your families future. Go here to change your life forever. http://www.rgeg546.com/ NO THANKS http://www.rgeg546.com/gone.asp From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 08:21:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07321 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092E020493; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:21:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C3A20497; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:21:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F8920497 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:20:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628F520493 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D5389883; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:20:45 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42134856.1010501@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwz@cisco.com Cc: eap@frascone.com, iesg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: <200502152131.j1FLVPhF026872@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <200502152131.j1FLVPhF026872@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:19:18 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Glen, > This would work for me: I would _really_ like to end all this rather > coy dancing around the subject. So, I would like the authors to > explain clearly, concisely and precisely (_in the document_, not in > the EAP list archives or some 3GPP document-in-progress, unless > those are referenced _in the document_) what the purpose of this > thing is, who is going to use it and why. Ok, great! > Farooq has reminded us several times that this is 3GPP; OK, then put that in title: > "Identity Selection in 3GPP Networks" or something. As I mentioned > in an earlier message, I don't think that any of the hints are > actually necessary for roaming to function, especially those in > secondary identity requests. I suspect (but don't _know_, since the > authors aren't telling) that this is actually to implement some kind > of AAA source-routing, possibly to support some legacy model of > circuit-switched accounting. I believe 3GPP intends to use some form of source routing, even though that would not necessarily be the only way to use this functionality. I personally hesitate a bit to make the title 3GPP specific. (Maybe its just a preference of writing "situation X" instead of "organization Y".) There seems to be a very specific scenario where the hints are useful; what comes afterwards is either a decision to go somewhere else, use another identifer, or source routing. > OK, fine. Explain that, clearly mark > it as a 3GPP thing, make it Informational and let's be done with it. It is already Informational (and individual submission). --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 08:38:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08643 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172EE204AA; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBD12049B; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:38:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B6C2049F for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80B720498 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B9B89883; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:37:04 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:35:37 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bernard, > * Is it legal to send an EAP Notification as the first message in an EAP > exchange? (e.g. before EAP-Request/Identity or an EAP-Request for an > authentication method) I think so. See Section 5.2 of RFC 3748 (emphasis added): An authenticator MAY send a Notification Request to the peer *at any time* when there is no outstanding Request, prior to completion of an EAP authentication method. Page 8 of draft-ietf-eap-statemachine-05.pdf seems to confirm this, because allowNotifications is initialized to TRUE. > * Is it legal to send an EAP Notification in response to an > EAP-Response/Identity? I think so. See Section 5.1 of RFC 3748: The Notification Request MAY be used to indicate an invalid authentication attempt prior to transmitting a new Identity Request (optionally, the failure MAY be indicated within the message of the new Identity Request itself). (The last part of this text is funny, however, because we have no bit in the Identity Request to indicate such things. I think the text means that the mere reception of a new Identity Request means that previous identity was invalid or insufficient.) > * After negotiation of an EAP authentication method is confirmed (e.g. an > EAP-Response with Type=X has been sent in response to an EAP-Request with > Type=X) is it possible to send an EAP Notification if the method > negotiated forbids notifications? (e.g. can a Notification be sent after > the method completes, instead of Success/Failure). The answer that I found to this seems partial, but it is at least clear that if the method forbids notifications then the peer can't respond to them. By implication, if the server sends notifications then it will have to wait for the response and the process ends up in a timeout. Section 5.2 of RFC 3748: The peer MUST respond to a Notification Request with a Notification Response unless the EAP authentication method specification prohibits the use of Notification messages. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 09:37:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14474 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383EC2049B; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E392049F; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:37:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F2C2049F for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64352049B for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:36:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D1QHn-000Js0-Mx; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:36:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1GEaEB03376; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:36:14 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications In-Reply-To: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:36:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > I think so. See Section 5.1 of RFC 3748: > > The Notification Request MAY be used to indicate an invalid > authentication attempt prior to transmitting a new Identity > Request (optionally, the failure MAY be indicated within > the message of the new Identity Request itself). > > (The last part of this text is funny, however, because we have > no bit in the Identity Request to indicate such things. I think > the text means that the mere reception of a new Identity > Request means that previous identity was invalid or insufficient.) Yes. However, since both the EAP-Request/Identity and Notification can be used to send a notice there is some overlap. However, the EAP-Request/Identity can also be used for Network Selection, so I guess that might not leave enough space for a longer message. > The answer that I found to this seems partial, but > it is at least clear that if the method forbids notifications > then the peer can't respond to them. By implication, > if the server sends notifications then it will have to > wait for the response and the process ends up in a timeout. Yes. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 09:41:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14935 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36717204C4; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0780204AB; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:41:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485EB204AB for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:40:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623E72049F for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:40:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352B289883; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:02 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42135AEA.9060901@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications References: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:38:34 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >>The answer that I found to this seems partial, but >>it is at least clear that if the method forbids notifications >>then the peer can't respond to them. By implication, >>if the server sends notifications then it will have to >>wait for the response and the process ends up in a timeout. > > Yes. The part of that I did not find an answer to is when the method's prohibition "ends", does it extend to the Success/Failure, or only during its own run. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wo16288@126.com Wed Feb 16 09:46:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15572 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:46:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502161446.JAA15572@ietf.org> Received: from [218.17.69.44] (helo=126.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1QmX-0005wc-Gg for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:08:05 -0500 From: =?GB2312?B?ye7b2si6waa/xry8?= Subject: =?GB2312?B?v+zL2deo0rXJz8PFzqzQ3rXnxNQ=?= To: eap-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html;charset="GB2312" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:45:39 +0800 X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: FoxMail 4.0 beta 2 [cn] X-Spam-Score: 9.5 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 ÎÞ±êÌâÎĵµ
 
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From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 09:49:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15933 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C46A204D5; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C17204AC; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:49:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D085204AB for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40F8204A4 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D1QTp-0001Kb-E1; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:48:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1GEmeY06053; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:48:40 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications In-Reply-To: <42135AEA.9060901@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> <42135AEA.9060901@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:48:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > Bernard Aboba wrote: > > >>The answer that I found to this seems partial, but > >>it is at least clear that if the method forbids notifications > >>then the peer can't respond to them. By implication, > >>if the server sends notifications then it will have to > >>wait for the response and the process ends up in a timeout. > > > > Yes. > > The part of that I did not find an answer to is when > the method's prohibition "ends", does it extend to > the Success/Failure, or only during its own run. Section 2.1: An EAP conversation MAY utilize a sequence of methods. A common example of this is an Identity request followed by a single EAP authentication method such as an MD5-Challenge. However, the peer and authenticator MUST utilize only one authentication method (Type 4 or greater) within an EAP conversation, after which the authenticator MUST send a Success or Failure packet. So I conclude that if the method doesn't permit Notifications, then once the method proposal is accepted, no Notifications are allowed from that point forward. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 09:52:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16345 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C063D204C0; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788B7204AB; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:52:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCDF204BF for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:51:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FF65204AB for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55C789883; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:51:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42135D80.6000809@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Some questions about EAP Notifications References: <42134C29.1070105@piuha.net> <42135AEA.9060901@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:49:36 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: > Section 2.1: > > An EAP conversation MAY utilize a sequence of methods. A common > example of this is an Identity request followed by a single EAP > authentication method such as an MD5-Challenge. However, the peer > and authenticator MUST utilize only one authentication method (Type 4 > or greater) within an EAP conversation, after which the authenticator > MUST send a Success or Failure packet. > > So I conclude that if the method doesn't permit Notifications, then once > the method proposal is accepted, no Notifications are allowed from that > point forward. Ok, good! --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 11:19:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08774 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C0D2050F; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94786204F2; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:19:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB89204DD for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:18:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.173]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490A7204BF for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D1Rsn-0006ba-00 for eap@frascone.com; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:18:33 +0100 Received: from [213.54.66.28] (helo=p213.54.66.28.tisdip.tiscali.de) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D1Rsm-0000tU-00 for eap@frascone.com; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:18:33 +0100 From: Thomas Otto Organization: Thomas Otto To: eap@frascone.com User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200502161715.28203.t.otto@sharevolution.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] SHA-1 broken Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:18:30 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit from: http://www.schneier.com/blog/ February 15, 2005 SHA-1 Broken SHA-1 has been broken. Not a reduced-round version. Not a simplified version. The real thing. The research team of Xiaoyun Wang, Yiqun Lisa Yin, and Hongbo Yu (mostly from Shandong University in China) have been quietly circulating a paper describing their results: * collisions in the the full SHA-1 in 2**69 hash operations, much less than the brute-force attack of 2**80 operations based on the hash length. * collisions in SHA-0 in 2**39 operations. * collisions in 58-round SHA-1 in 2**33 operations. This attack builds on previous attacks on SHA-0 and SHA-1, and is a major, major cryptanalytic result. It pretty much puts a bullet into SHA-1 as a hash function for digital signatures (although it doesn't affect applications such as HMAC where collisions aren't important). The paper isn't generally available yet. At this point I can't tell if the attack is real, but the paper looks good and this is a reputable research team. More details when I have them. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 13:23:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14050 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8AE204F2; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757502051E; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:23:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921902051E for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:22:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25CC204F2 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C4589883 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:22:25 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42138F0A.1010402@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502161507.KAA18966@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502161507.KAA18966@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-funk-eap-ttls-v1-00.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:20:58 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : EAP Tunneled TLS Authentication Protocol Version 1 (EAP-TTLSv1) > Author(s) : P. Funk, S. Blake-Wilson > Filename : draft-funk-eap-ttls-v1-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2005-2-15 > > EAP-TTLS is an EAP type that utilizes TLS to establish a secure > connection between a client and server, through which additional > information may be exchanged. The initial TLS handshake may mutually > authenticate client and server; or it may perform a one-way > authentication, in which only the server is authenticated to the > client. The secure connection established by the initial handshake > may then be used to allow the server to authenticate the client > using existing, widely-deployed authentication infrastructures such > as RADIUS. The authentication of the client may itself be EAP, or it > may be another authentication protocol such as PAP, CHAP, MS-CHAP or > MS-CHAP-V2. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v1-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 13:45:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20769 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:45:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05BF42054A; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:45:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B46E2054D; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:45:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF1820530 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553EB20527 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F96089883 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:44:14 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42139427.8040207@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502161520.KAA22213@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502161520.KAA22213@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-nystrom-eap-potp-00.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:42:47 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : The Protected One-Time Password Protocol (EAP-POTP) > Author(s) : M. Nystrom > Filename : draft-nystrom-eap-potp-00.txt > Pages : 66 > Date : 2005-2-15 > > This document describes a general EAP method suitable for use with > One-Time Password (OTP) tokens, in particular tokens with direct > electronic interfaces to their associated clients. The method can be > used to provide unilateral or mutual authentication, and key > material, in protocols utilizing EAP, such as PPP, IEEE 802.1X and > IKEv2. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nystrom-eap-potp-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From scotjwwdger@acceleratedweb.com Wed Feb 16 14:14:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00520; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1Uy9-00043r-CP; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:36:22 -0500 Received: from 130-235-114-200.fibertel.com.ar ([200.114.235.130]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D1UcF-0004Yj-Q2; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:13:41 -0500 Received: from ICEDQ-BU38 (200.114.235.130) by 200.114.235.130; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:13:17 -0800 From: "St. Lincoln Clinic" To: avt-admin@ietf.org, avt-request@ietf.org, bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bridge-mib@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org Subject: get MEDlClNES delivred Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:13:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0PI_01P9768KZ_09T.251K65O0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: QWG Mail v5.2 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f251f249fc9a04067ce354aa0943ab98 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0PI_01P9768KZ_09T.251K65O0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00ON_07Z7201UG_06T.452B96L0" ------=0_00ON_07Z7201UG_06T.452B96L0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://qnqawykw.kldjknai.com/?zj5H5c347DGWL3zviomrgsjtiibd When love is not madness, it is not love. If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are. Who would give a law to lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems. 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Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other pro blems. His ignorance is encyclopedic Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. The quality of the moment is more important than the number of our days. Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket? A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. Luck is the residue of design. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. 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It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. His ignorance is encyclopedic Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Love is life. And if you miss love, you miss life. The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. I would have made a good Pope. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow but a vision. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well, therefore to this day. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense. Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact. I'll moider da bum. The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. ------=0_00ON_07Z7201UG_06T.452B96L0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D= When love is not madness, it is not love. If you ever r= each total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot ou= t your nose. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to yo= u. Not because they are nice, but because you are. Who would give a law to= lovers? Love is unto itself a higher law. Do, or do not. There is no 'try= '. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitut= e for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man= I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an = agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- tha= t is all that agnosticism means. I feel sorry for people who don't drink. = When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel = all day. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your e= yes off your goal. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Each= problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve othe= r problems. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citize= ns can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Where= are we going, and why am I in this handbasket? Sometimes our light goes o= ut but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest= thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Three o'clock is always to= o late or too early for anything you want to do. Three o'clock is always t= oo late or too early for anything you want to do. Everything has been figu= red out, except how to live. Treat everyone with politeness, even those wh= o are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are. If a ma= n does his best, what else is there? Touch is the most fundamental sense. = A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learn= s to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Ke= ep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Each problem th= at I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems.= His ignorance is encyclopedic Make everything as simple as possible, but = not simpler. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a= substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable = than a man. The quality of the moment is more important than the number of= our days. Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both calle= d users? Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for= it Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. Where ar= e we going, and why am I in this handbasket? A woman knows the face of the= man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. Luck is the residue of desi= gn. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a = forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marv= els or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been w= ritten for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any = other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequence= s. It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid. But at my bac= k I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. I'm all in favor of k= eeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typew= riters. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a f= riend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One= can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. An incon= venience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an incon= venience rightly considered. The great thing about television is that if s= omething important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can al= ways change the channel. Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever. I do= not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnost= ic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is a= ll that agnosticism means. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss al= so gazes into you. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transitio= n that's troublesome. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. = I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. I am ready to meet my = Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is = another matter. Luck is the residue of design. No matter what looms ahead,= if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjo= y it and bless God for it. I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it. = When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from = the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whethe= r the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or f= rom the meeting of your sparks. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by natur= e to stop speech when words become superfluous. In theory, there is no dif= ference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. Iron rust= s from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes= frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Autumn is the ti= me when seasons merge because of bare necessity. Life's challenges are not= supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you a= re. Hatch a dream and then believe it. It is dangerous to be sincere unles= s you are also stupid. Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rat= her a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. First they ignor= e you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. I have n= ot failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. Whenever I climb I= am followed by a dog called 'Ego'. You can't be a real country unless you= have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football = team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. No m= atter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer = with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. Moral indignation is jea= lousy with a halo. His ignorance is encyclopedic Only two things are infin= ite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. = We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Love is life. And if you mis= s love, you miss life. The only difference between me and a madman is that= I'm not mad. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is import= ant to them; there ought to be as many for love. I would have made a good = Pope. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she= wants, rather than to create it herself. Yesterday is a dream, tomorrow b= ut a vision. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happine= ss, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well, therefore to this day.= The great thing about television is that if something important happens a= nywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. The= Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But i= n the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best h= ope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.The use of COBO= L cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a crim= inal offense. Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from= giving wordy evidence of the fact. I'll moider da bum. The opposite of a = correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth m= ay well be another profound truth. True friendship comes when the silence = between two people is comfortable. 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mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6142020415; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:46:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97EF820415 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB97320388 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:45:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1GNjaKg013640; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:45:36 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1GNjZI8012702; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:45:36 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005021615453529991 ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:45:35 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:45:35 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUUcX/DC1KxVXz4TMW1lrEHqpqBdQACzTlw From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Sam Hartman" Cc: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2005 23:45:35.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[9C71AF40:01C51481] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:45:34 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam, The proposed text was intended to clarify the immediate applicability of the proposed solution only. The included 3GPP specification references (stage 2 and 3) explain exactly how the proposed solution is used for 3GPP/WLAN network selection. The introduction section also provides some usage models and rationale for EAP-based network advertisement, and appendix provides detailed examples with network topology and railroad diagrams. But, I guess you still are not clear about the concept. Hmmm -- I guess we need to work on it more! It would be nice if you file an issue explaining what additional details you are expecting to see in the document. =20 -Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-ietf@mit.edu]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:50 PM > To: Adrangi, Farid > Cc: gwz@cisco.com; jari.arkko@piuha.net; iesg@ietf.org;=20 > eap@frascone.com > Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 >=20 > Your proposed text probably will not work for me. It is focusing too > much on who will use the technology, not on why or what they get out > of the technology. >=20 > I should be able to read the document and come away knowing whether > the technology is appropriate for an environment I'm considering > designing and probably know what environments it would be good for. >=20 > I'm not sure your text does that. >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Feb 16 23:59:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA13223 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:59:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD31C20419; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:59:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF417204A4; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:59:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7A1204A4 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cingular.com (extmail12.cingular.com [170.35.225.27]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C324820419 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ([135.214.42.163]) by extmail12.cingular.com with ESMTP id KP-VYHH4.19210504; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:57:32 -0500 Received: from neastmail.entp.attws.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by viruswall.entp.attws.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1H4vUBY018236; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com (WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com [135.214.26.241]) by neastmail.entp.attws.com (8.8.8p2+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01818; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from WA-MSG10-BTH.wireless.attws.com ([135.214.41.74]) by WA-MSGBH01-BTH.wireless.attws.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:30 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 286: Security Thread-Index: AcUUcX/DC1KxVXz4TMW1lrEHqpqBdQACzTlwAAuGjOA= From: "Bari, Farooq" To: "Adrangi, Farid" , "Sam Hartman" Cc: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2005 04:57:30.0409 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F390190:01C514AD] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:30 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam, Section 1 of the draft has some of the information that you are probably looking for and the proposed text that Farid sent out is not meant to replace that information but to add to it. There also used to be much more information on the roaming scenarios etc.in the draft in its earlier versions which explained the usage etc. However as the draft went through revisions the guidance we got from EAP WG was to focus on the main objective of the draft and not focus too much on informational/problem statement type of dicussion in the draft. The reference document [netsel-problem] is a draft that got trigerred by discussions on our draft and much of the of the information on the larger problem space now resides in that draft. We have included this draft as the reference. BR, Farooq > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On Behalf Of > Adrangi, Farid > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:46 PM > To: Sam Hartman > Cc: gwz@cisco.com; jari.arkko@piuha.net; iesg@ietf.org; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 286: Security >=20 > Hi Sam, > The proposed text was intended to clarify the immediate applicability of > the proposed solution only. The included 3GPP specification references > (stage 2 and 3) explain exactly how the proposed solution is used for > 3GPP/WLAN network selection. The introduction section also provides > some usage models and rationale for EAP-based network advertisement, and > appendix provides detailed examples with network topology and railroad > diagrams. But, I guess you still are not clear about the concept. Hmmm > -- I guess we need to work on it more! It would be nice if you file an > issue explaining what additional details you are expecting to see in the > document. > -Farid >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-ietf@mit.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:50 PM > > To: Adrangi, Farid > > Cc: gwz@cisco.com; jari.arkko@piuha.net; iesg@ietf.org; > > eap@frascone.com > > Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security > > > > > > Your proposed text probably will not work for me. It is focusing too > > much on who will use the technology, not on why or what they get out > > of the technology. > > > > I should be able to read the document and come away knowing whether > > the technology is appropriate for an environment I'm considering > > designing and probably know what environments it would be good for. > > > > I'm not sure your text does that. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From uszdvpw@go2.pl Thu Feb 17 00:16:47 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA14854; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:16:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [210.220.111.103] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1eNL-0007Yl-G8; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:38:57 -0500 Received: from calamity.softhome.net (HELO soft.net) (21.9.130.0) by necessitate-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:08:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:14:45 -0700 Message-Id: <68HX87FE-0D24-11D7-A3B5-0050E4C05556@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> From: "Marlon Meier" To: Subject: Five minute signup. 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Go here to change your life forever. http://www.rgeg546.com/ NO THANKS http://www.rgeg546.com/gone.asp From yqpclrikdmsl@go2.pl Thu Feb 17 00:16:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA14907; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [210.220.111.103] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1eNU-0007Yl-Gl; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:39:05 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 18.speakeasy.net) (envelope-sender ) by speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-HNX3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 04:11:51 -0100 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:09:51 +0300 From: "Bradly Hurd" To: Subject: We all go thru it. X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) X-Spam-Score: 9.9 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 There was never a better time to refinance your home. Rates are at a 40 year low. Now more than ever you should grab the opportunity to gain financial security for yourself and your families future. Go here to change your life forever. http://www.rgeg546.com/ NO THANKS http://www.rgeg546.com/gone.asp From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Feb 17 00:35:05 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16899 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8E8205D7; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:35:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0CD205D8; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:35:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B628205CF for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2461E205CD for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:34:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02C589969; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:34:49 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42142CA1.9050800@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Hartman Cc: "Adrangi, Farid" , gwz@cisco.com, iesg@ietf.org, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 286: Security References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:33:21 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam, I agree that the text should focus on what the situation is rather than who uses this stuff. I sent an alternative text proposal to the EAP list a while ago (but it did not go to the IESG list). Here's a new revision of that proposal. Would this work for you better? Add the following new text to the end of the abstract: The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for advertising connectivity to a limited number of entities that find such advertisements of their presence useful. Replace paragraphs 3-5 in Section 1 with the following: This mechanism is not generally applicable to all access networks or all home or mediating networks. Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally sufficient, and the identification hints are typically useful only when there's too much ambiquity to try all client identity and access network combinations efficiently, or when the scale of the roaming associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all access networks to all home networks. This can happen, for instance, when access networks have contracts with multiple roaming consortiums but do not have a full list of home networks reachable through them. In the situations mentioned above, a limited number of identity hints can be provided by the mechanism described in this document. Even in this case, for security reasons it is required that the networks that are listed in these hints consent to such advertisements. Exactly how the identity hint information is used by the peer depends largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the scope of this document. However, the peer would typically either decide to use another identity it has, decide to switch to another access network, or attempt to reformat its NAI [rfc2486bis] to assist in proper routing. This document is also related to the general network discovery and selection problem. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed discussion about this problem space. And add this to the Security Considerations section: Any information revealed either from the network or client sides before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security risk. For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a poor authentication method can make it easier for attackers to discover that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent of the network being described in the hints is required before such hints can be sent. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From NFHSTY@mindspring.com Thu Feb 17 06:26:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA09847; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:26:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [195.60.28.233] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1k9Y-00083K-Ub; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:49:06 -0500 X-Message-Info: ACIVzxTA331aYC5UaiSWK512PlnuPA4SO811O759mqc483K Received: (from ed45sweepstake@localhost) by pjg917-disulfide37.adh7l.comcast.net (4.59.32/9.92.49) id sne26Q50aq039521; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:26:07 +0200 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: ea12-ductwork13.eoe467os.comcast.net: pzm9equilateral set sender to NFHSTY@mindspring.com using -x MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:24:07 -0100 From: Damon Sims Subject: saxxually explicjit:: Get instant access to many poorn sites! soapy To: 20000411095908.i-d@ietf.org Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--363650154947175263" X-Spam-Score: 23.0 (+++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab ----363650154947175263 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Yep, you can now get a real life-time pass for our network!
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quadrangle tote billow cite climate antennae. ares revise retrieval lop perverse derbyshire profuse fogging. durance inbred lop brumidi acapulco mantlepiece flinty bowen. bonaventure occupation christenson cite clandestine because dogberry selectmen cattle. iran pane abhorrent chalkline hoar doctrinaire casualty. ----363650154947175263-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Feb 17 08:02:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18051 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:02:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16B2205D8; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:02:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43823204F5; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:02:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBC7204F5 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC7A204AA for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:01:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130 [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF58A8989B; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:01:56 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4214956C.8000300@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" Cc: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] ICOS BOF -- IP Configuration Security Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:00:28 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For your information: we intend to arrange a BoF in the next IETF about the secure configuration needs at IP layer. Some of the proposals in this space relate to EAP usage, so participation from this group would be highly desirable. Mailing list has also been set up; see below for a link to subscribe yourself. IP Configuration Security BoF Chairs: Bernard Aboba Jari Arkko Area Directors: Thomas Narten Margaret Wasserman Mailing list: https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/icos This BoF will provide an overview of secure Internet layer configuration needs, discussing the architectural issues, areas of applicability and potential solutions under discussion in different areas of the IETF. The purpose of the BoF is to discuss a common topic that touches several existing Working Groups, and it is not expected that a new working group will be formed as a result. The BoF will also not replace ongoing process in existing WGs, though it is hoped that the discussion gives additional insights to the participants to deal with these issues. The need for this BoF has came up in the context of expanding EAP usage, including the use of EAP for configuration in different IETF WGs. However, the BoF will discuss this issue from a general point of view, as the issue is not related to just a single protocol. Examples of specific issues in IP layer protocols are brought forward, however, as are examples of solutions in order make it easier to understand the concrete implications of the issues. Internet layer configuration is defined as the configuration required to support the operation at the Internet layer. This includes IP address configuration, default gateway(s), name server configuration, boot configuration (TFTP, NFS), service location and directory configuration, mobility configuration, and time server configuration (NTP). Configuration is typically performed insecurely today. For example, DHCP is rarely secured for a variety of reasons, even though a security mechanism has been defined in RFC 3118. In other cases, such as in Mobile IPv6, the use of security tools is mandatory in the protocols, but there are deployment barriers. As a result, Internet Area working groups are exploring alternative solutions. These include use of EAP for use for key derivation, and configuration. For example, the DHC WG has considered employment of EAP-derived keys for use with DHCP security, as defined in RFC 3118 and 3315. The MIPv6 WG, in investigating the bootstrapping problem, has considered proposals involving use of IKEv2 with EAP, as well as utilization of link layer EAP exchanges for configuration. IPv6 uses Router Advertisements for address autoconfiguration; however, a mechanism is needed to secure them. The SEND working group defined a zero-configuration mechanism for secure IP address configuration, based on Cryptographically Generated Addresses (CGAs). It also defined a certificate-based authorization for routers, where hosts can use a router that has a certificate traceable to a trusted root configured for the host. All these configuration tasks have delay constraints, because they typically need to be performed before a node that just moved can resume communications. Reading list: [RFC3118] Droms, R. and W. Arbaugh, "Authentication for DHCP Messages", RFC 3118, June 2001. [RFC3315] Droms, R., Ed., Bound, J., Volz,, B., Lemon, T., Perkins, C. and M. Carney, "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6)", RFC 3315, July 2003. [RFC3748] Aboba, B., Blunk, L., Vollbrecht, J., Carlson, J. and H. Lefkowetz, "Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP)", RFC 3748, June 2004. [RFC3736] Droms, R., "Stateless Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) Service for IPv6", RFC 3736, April 2004. [RFC3756] Nikander, P., Kempf, J. and E. Nordmark, "IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (ND) Trust Models and Threats", RFC 3756, May 2004. [RFC3818] Schryver, V., "IANA Considerations for Point-to-Point Protocol", RFC 3818, June 2004. [ANYCAST] Hagino, J., and K. Ettikan, "An Analysis of IPv6 Anycast", draft-ietf-ipngwg-ipv6-anycast-analysis-02.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), June 2003. [DHCPv4Threat] Hibbs, R., Smith, C., Volz, B., Zohar, M., "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv4 (DHCPv4) Threat Analysis", draft-ietf-dhc-v4-threat-analysis-02.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), April 2004. [DHCPv6Threat] Prigent, N., Marchand, J., Dupont, F., Cousin, B., Laurent- Maknavicius, M. and J. Bournelle, "DHCPv6 Threats", draft- prigent-dhcpv6-threats-00.txt, March 2001. [DNSConfv6] Jeong, J. (ed.), "IPv6 Host Configuration of DNS Server Information Approaches", draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns- configuration-04.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), September 2004. [EAP3118] Yegin, A., Tschofenig, H. and D. Forsberg, "Bootstrapping RFC 3118 Delayed DHCP AUthentication Using EAP-based Network Access Authentication", draft-yegin-eap-boot-rfc3118-01.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), January 2005. [EAPIKE] Tschofenig, H., Kroeselberg, D., Ohba, Y. and F. Bersani, "EAP IKEv2 Method (EAP-IKEv2)", draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-05.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2004. [IKEv2] Kaufman, C., (ed.), "Internet Key Exchange (IKEv2) Protocol", draft-ietf-ipsec-ikev2-17.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), September 2004. [IPCPMIPv6] Song, J., Chong, C. and D. Leigh, "MIPv6 IPCP configuration option for PPP IPv6CP", draft-song-pppext-mipv6-ppp- support-01.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2001. [SEND] Arkko, J., Kempf, J., Sommerfeld, B., Zill, B. and P. Nikander, "SEcure Neighbor Discovery (SEND)", draft-ietf-send- ndopt-06.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), January 2005. [SEND-CGA] Aura, T., "Cryptographically Generated Addresses (CGA)", draft-ietf-send-cga-06.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2004. [MIPv6-BOOT] A. Patel, "Problem Statement for bootstrapping Mobile IPv6, draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2004. [MIPv6-IKEv2] Devarapalli, V., "Mobile IPv6 Operation with IKEv2 and the revised IPsec Architecture", draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2004. [MIPv6-EAP] Giaretta, G., Guardini, I., Demaria, E., Bournelle, J., and M. Laurent-Maknavicius, "MIPv6 Authorization and Configuration based on EAP", draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), October 2004. [MIPv6-AAA] Yegin, A., "AAA Mobile IPv6 Application Framework", draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), August 2004. [MIPv6-BOOT2] J. Kempf, E. Nordmark, S. Chakrabarti, "Bootstrapping Mobile IPv6", draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt, Internet draft (work in progress), December 2004. ---- IP Configuration Security BOF Agenda Time and Date: Monday, March 7, 2005, 1530-1730 (Tentative - have asked to be moved to Wed-Thu!) Preliminaries: (5 minutes) - Minute Takers - Bluesheets IP Configuration Security Problem, Bernard Aboba (10 minutes) http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IETF62/icos.ppt Why do we care, TBD (10 minutes) Credential Reuse, TBD (10 minutes) EAP and its Applicability, Bernard Aboba (15 minutes) http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IETF62/icos.ppt (To Be Provided) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3748.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-04.txt Overview of The MIPv6 Bootstrap Problem, James Kempf (20 minutes) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mipv6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-giaretta-mipv6-authorization-eap-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mipv6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt (more documents in the reading list) Overview of DHCP Security, Mark Stapp/Ralph Droms (20 minutes) http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3118.txt http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3315.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dhc-v4-threat-analysis-03.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yegin-eap-boot-rfc3118-01.txt http://bgp.potaroo.net/ietf/all-ids/draft-ietf-dhc-auth-sigzero-00.txt http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IETF62/draft-stapp-dhc-eap-00.txt (To Be Provided) Overview of Secure Configuration in SEND, Jari Arkko (10 minutes) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-send-cga-06.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-send-ndopt-06.txt Overview of Other IP Layer Needs, TBD (5 min) - Mobile IPv4 - PANA - IKEv2 Discussion and Wrapup (20 minutes) _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From shantaecondit@freemail.nl Thu Feb 17 13:14:17 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11426; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:14:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [222.75.101.138] (helo=mail.bulgaria.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1qVo-0000f9-Mu; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:36:32 -0500 message-id: <096e01c5151c$d5498540$30404d50@BOHKI> Reply-To: From: "Viagra, Cialis, Xanax, Valium..." 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Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:56:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E522049E; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69BC204AE; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:56:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F67620631 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BAB2049E for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130 [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE2A89883 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:55:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4215044F.2030106@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "eap@frascone.com" References: <200502171455.JAA01257@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200502171455.JAA01257@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-funk-eap-ttls-v0-00.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:53:35 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : EAP Tunneled TLS Authentication Protocol Version 0 (EAP-TTLSv0) > Author(s) : P. Funk, S. Blake-Wilson > Filename : draft-funk-eap-ttls-v0-00.txt > Pages : 37 > Date : 2005-2-16 > > EAP-TTLS is an EAP protocol that extends EAP-TLS. In EAP-TLS, a TLS > handshake is used to mutually authenticate a client and server. EAP- > TTLS extends this authentication negotiation by using the secure > connection established by the TLS handshake to exchange additional > information between client and server. In EAP-TTLS, the TLS > handshake may be mutual; or it may be one-way, in which only the > server is authenticated to the client. The secure connection > established by the handshake may then be used to allow the server to > authenticate the client using existing, widely-deployed > authentication infrastructures such as RADIUS. The authentication of > the client may itself be EAP, or it may be another authentication > protocol such as PAP, CHAP, MS-CHAP or MS-CHAP-V2. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v0-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From broli@nativeweb.net Thu Feb 17 18:40:50 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24927; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D1vbu-0004cT-C6; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:03:08 -0500 Received: from [220.81.249.243] (helo=freemail.nl) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D1vGD-00049a-BK; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:40:41 -0500 message-id: <080201c5154a$6f78ad30$b89b3a92@the.rv> Reply-To: From: "Viagra, Cialis, Xanax, Valium..." 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------=_NextPart_001_0001_5697D78D.5435C869-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_B7D0CE09.49B4A616-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Feb 17 22:58:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20394 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:58:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89B120432; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:58:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE2B2044B; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:58:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D252044B for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:57:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B81C20432 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D1zGk-0007oX-QW for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:57:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1I3vTm22080 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:57:29 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue 254: Key Lifetime Issues Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:57:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) The text of Issue 254 is available here: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/eapissues.html#Issue 254 The proposed resolution is to gather all key management-related material into Section 4, which reads as follows: 4. Key Management The EAP peer, authenticator and backend server may support key caching. Since EAP supports key derivation, but not key management, this functionality needs to be provided by the Secure Association Protocol. Key management support includes: [a] Key lifetime determination. EAP does not support negotiation of key lifetimes, nor does it support rekey without reauthentication. As a result, the Secure Association Protocol is responsible for rekey and determination of the key lifetime. Where key caching is supported, secure negotiation of key lifetimes is RECOMMENDED. Lower layers that support rekey, but not key caching may not require key lifetime negotiation. To take an example from IKE, the difference between IKEv1 and IKEv2 is that in IKEv1 SA lifetimes were negotiated. In IKEv2, each end of the SA is responsible for enforcing its own lifetime policy on the SA and rekeying the SA when necessary. [b] Key resynchronization. It is possible for the peer or authenticator to reboot or reclaim resources, clearing portions or all of the key cache. Therefore, key lifetime negotiation cannot guarantee that the key cache will remain synchronized, and the peer may not be able to determine before attempting to use a AAA-Key whether it exists within the authenticator cache. It is therefore RECOMMENDED for the Secure Association Protocol to provide a mechanism for key state resynchronization. Since in this situation one or more of the parties initially do not possess a key with which to protect the resynchronization exchange, securing this mechanism may be difficult. [c] Key selection. Where key caching is supported, it may be possible for the EAP peer and authenticator to share more than one key of a given type. As a result, the Secure Association Protocol needs to support key selection, using the EAP Key Naming scheme described in this document. [d] Key scope determination. Since the Discovery phase is handled out- of-band, EAP does not provide a mechanism by which the peer can determine the authenticator identity. As a result, where the authenticator has multiple ports and AAA-Key caching is supported, the EAP peer may not be able to determine the scope of validity of a AAA-Key. Similarly, where the EAP peer has multiple ports, the authenticator may not be able to determine whether a peer has authorization to use a particular AAA-Key. To allow key scope determination, the lower layer SHOULD provide a mechanism by which the peer can determine the scope of the AAA-Key cache on each authenticator, and by which the authenticator can determine the scope of the AAA-Key cache on a peer. 4.1. Key Caching Key caching may be supported on the EAP peer, authenticator and backend server. Where explicitly supported by the lower layer, the EAP peer and authenticator MAY cache the AAA-Key and/or TSKs. The structure of the key cache on the peer and authenticator is defined by the lower layer. Unless specified by the lower layer, the EAP peer, authenticator and server MUST assume that peers and authenticators do not cache the AAA-Key or TSKs. The EAP peer and server MAY cache keys exported by the EAP method as well as keys derived from them, subject to the following restrictions: [1] In order to avoid key reuse, on the EAP server, transported keys are deleted once they are sent. An EAP server MUST NOT retain keys that it has previously sent to the authenticator. For example, an EAP server that has transported a AAA-Key based on the MSK MUST delete both the AAA-Key and the MSK, and no keys may be derived from either the AAA-Key or the MSK from that point forward. [2] Keys which are not transported, such as the EMSK, MAY be cached on the EAP server. While AMSKs calculated from the EMSK MUST be deleted from the EAP server once they are transported, the parent EMSK may remain in the EAP server cache. 4.2. Parent-Child Relationships When keying material exported by EAP methods expires, all keying material derived from the exported keying material expires, including the AAA-Key, AMSKs and TSKs. When an EAP reauthentication takes place, new keying material is derived and exported by the EAP method, which eventually results in replacement of calculated keys, including the AAA-Key, AMSKs, and TSKs. As a result, while the lifetime of calculated keys can be less than or equal that of the exported keys they are derived from, it cannot be greater. For example, TSK rekey may occur prior to EAP reauthentication. Failure to mutually prove possession of the AAA-Key during the Secure Association Protocol exchange need not be grounds for deletion of the AAA-Key by both parties; rate-limiting Secure Association Protocol exchanges could be used to prevent a brute force attack. 4.3. Local Key Lifetimes The Transient EAP Keys (TEKs) are session keys used to protect the EAP conversation. The TEKs are internal to the EAP method and are not exported. TEKs are typically created during an EAP conversation, used until the end of the conversation and then discarded. However, methods may rekey TEKs during a conversation. When using TEKs within an EAP conversation or across conversations, it is necessary to ensure that replay protection and key separation requirements are fulfilled. For instance, if a replay counter is used, TEK rekey MUST occur prior to wrapping of the counter. Similarly, TSKs MUST remain cryptographically separate from TEKs despite TEK rekeying or caching. This prevents TEK compromise from leading directly to compromise of the TSKs and vice versa. EAP methods may cache local keying material which may persist for multiple EAP conversations when fast reconnect is used [RFC 3748]. For example, EAP methods based on TLS (such as EAP-TLS [RFC2716]) derive and cache the TLS Master Secret, typically for substantial time periods. The lifetime of other local keying material calculated within the EAP method is defined by the method. Note that in general, when using fast reconnect, there is no guarantee to that the original long-term credentials are still in the possession of the peer. For instance, a card hold holding the private key for EAP-TLS may have been removed. EAP servers should verify that the long-term credentials are still valid, such as by checking that certificate used in the original authentication has not yet expired. 4.4. Exported and Calculated Key Lifetimes All EAP methods generating keys are required to generate the MSK and EMSK, and may optionally generate the IV. However, EAP, defined in [RFC3748], does not support the negotiation of lifetimes for exported keying material such as the MSK, EMSK and IV. Several mechanisms exist for managing key lifetimes: [a] AAA attributes. AAA protocols such as RADIUS [RFC2865] and Diameter [DiamEAP] support the Session-Timeout attribute. The Session-Timeout value represents the maximum lifetime of the exported keys, and all keys calculated from it. If the AAA server caches exported keys, then it MUST expire the exported keys and all keys calculated from them, no later than the future time indicated by Session-Timeout. On the authenticator, where EAP is used for authentication, the Session-Timeout value represents the maximum session time prior to re-authentication, as described in [RFC3580]. Where EAP is used for pre-authentication, the session may not start until some future time, or may never occur. Nevertheless, the Session-Timeout value represents the time after which the AAA-Key, and all keys calculated from it, will have expired on the authenticator. If the session subsequently starts, re-authentication will be initiated once the Session-Time has expired. If the session never started, or started and ended, the AAA-Key and all keys calculated from it will be expired by the authenticator prior to the future time indicated by Session-Timeout. Since the TSK lifetime is often determined by authenticator resources, the AAA server has no insight into the TSK derivation process, and by the principle of ciphersuite independence, it is not appropriate for the AAA server to manage any aspect of the TSK derivation process, including the TSK lifetime. [b] Lower layer mechanisms. While AAA attributes can communicate the maximum exported key lifetime, this only serves to synchronize the key lifetime between the backend authentication server and the authenticator. Lower layer mechanisms can then be used to enable the lifetime of exported and calculated keys to be negotiated between the peer and authenticator. Where TSKs are established as the result of a Secure Association Protocol exchange, it is RECOMMENDED that the Secure Association Protocol include support for TSK resynchronization. Where the TSK is taken from the AAA-Key, there is no need to manage the TSK lifetime as a separate parameter, since the TSK lifetime and AAA- Key lifetime are identical. [c] System defaults. Where the EAP method does not support the negotiation of the exported key lifetime, and a key lifetime negotiation mechanism is not provided by the lower lower, there may be no way for the peer to learn the exported key liftime. In this case it is RECOMMENDED that the peer assume a default value of the exported key lifetime; 8 hours is suggested. Similarly, the lifetime of calculated keys can also be managed as a system parameter on the authenticator. 4.5. Key cache synchronization Issues arise when attempting to synchronize the key cache on the peer and authenticator. Lifetime negotiation alone cannot guarantee key cache synchronization. One problem is that the AAA protocol cannot guarantee synchronization of key lifetimes between the peer and authenticator. Where the Secure Association Protocol is not run immediately after EAP authentication, the exported and calculated key lifetimes will not be known by the peer during the hiatus. Where EAP pre-authentication occurs, this can leave the peer uncertain whether a subsequent attempt to use the exported keys will prove successful. However, even where the Secure Association Protocol is run immediately after EAP, it is still possible for the authenticator to reclaim resources if the created key state is not immediately utilized. The lower layer may utilize Discovery mechanisms to assist in this. For example, the authenticator manages the AAA-Key cache by deleting the oldest AAA-Key first (LIFO), the relative creation time of the last AAA-Key to be deleted could be advertised with the Discovery phase, enabling the peer to determine whether a given AAA-Key had been expired from the authenticator key cache prematurely. 4.6. Key Scope Issues As described in Section 2.3, the AAA-Key is calculated from the EMSK and MSK by the EAP peer and server, and is used as the root of the ciphersuite-specific key hierarchy. Where a backend authentication server is present, the AAA-Key is transported from the EAP server to the authenticator; where it is not present, the AAA-Key is calculated on the authenticator. Regardless of how many sessions are initiated using it, the AAA-Key scope is between the EAP peer that calculates it, and the authenticator that either calculates it (where no backend authenticator is present) or receives it from the server (where a backend authenticator server is present). It should be understood that an authenticator or peer: [a] may contain multiple physical ports; [b] may advertise itself as multiple "virtual" authenticators or peers; [c] may utilize multiple CPUs; [d] may support clustering services for load balancing or failover. As illustrated in Figure 1, an EAP peer with multiple ports may be attached to one or more authenticators, each with multiple ports. Where the peer and authenticator identify themselves using a port identifier such as a link layer address, it may not be obvious to the peer which authenticator ports are associated with which authenticators. Similarly, it may not be obvious to the authenticator which peer ports are associated with which peers. As a result, the peer and authenticator may not be able to determine the scope of the AAA-Key. When a single physical authenticator advertises itself as multiple "virtual authenticators", the EAP peer and authenticator also may not be able to agree on the scope of the AAA-Key, creating a security vulnerability. For example, the peer may assume that the "virtual authenticators" are distinct and do not share a key cache, whereas, depending on the architecture of the physical AP, a shared key cache may or may not be implemented. Where the AAA-Key is shared between "virtual authenticators" an attacker acting as a peer could authenticate with the "Guest" "virtual authenticator" and derive a AAA-Key. If the virtual authenticators share a key cache, then the peer can utilize the AAA- Key derived for the "Guest" network to obtain access to the "Corporate Intranet" virtual authenticator. Several measures are recommended to address these issues: [a] Authenticators are REQUIRED to cache associated authorizations along with the AAA-Key and apply authorizations consistently. This ensures that an attacker cannot obtain elevated privileges even where the AAA-Key cache is shared between "virtual authenticators". [b] It is RECOMMENDED that physical authenticators maintain separate AAA-Key caches for each "virtual authenticator". [c] It is RECOMMENDED that each "virtual authenticator" identify itself distinctly to the AAA server, such as by utilizing a distinct NAS- identifier attribute. This enables the AAA server to utilize a separate credential to authenticate each "virtual authenticator". [d] It is RECOMMENDED that Secure Association Protocols identify peers and authenticators unambiguously, without incorporating implicit assumptions about peer and authenticator architectures. Using port-specific MAC addresses as identifiers is NOT RECOMMENDED where peers and authenticators may support multiple ports. [e] The AAA server and authenticator MAY implement additional attributes in order to further restrict the AAA-Key scope. For example, in 802.11, the AAA server may provide the authenticator with a list of authorized Called or Calling-Station-Ids and/or SSIDs for which the AAA-Key is valid. [f] Where the AAA server provides attributes restricting the key scope, it is RECOMMENDED that restrictions be securely communicated by the authenticator to the peer. This is typically accomplished using the Secure Association Protocol, but also can be accomplished via the EAP method or the lower layer. 4.7. Key Strength In order to guard against brute force attacks, EAP methods deriving keys need to be capable of generating keys with an appropriate effective symmetric key strength. In order to ensure that key generation is not the weakest link, it is RECOMMENDED that EAP methods utilizing public key cryptography choose a public key that has a cryptographic strength meeting the symmetric key strength requirement. As noted in [RFC3766] Section 5, this results in the following required RSA or DH module and DSA subgroup size in bits, for a given level of attack resistance in bits: Attack Resistance RSA or DH Modulus DSA subgroup (bits) size (bits) size (bits) ----------------- ----------------- ------------ 70 947 128 80 1228 145 90 1553 153 100 1926 184 150 4575 279 200 8719 373 250 14596 475 4.8. Key Wrap As described in [RFC3579] Section 4.3, known problems exist in the key wrap specified in [RFC2548]. Where the same RADIUS shared secret is used by a PAP authenticator and an EAP authenticator, there is a vulnerability to known plaintext attack. Since RADIUS uses the shared secret for multiple purposes, including per-packet authentication, attribute hiding, considerable information is exposed about the shared secret with each packet. This exposes the shared secret to dictionary attacks. MD5 is used both to compute the RADIUS Response Authenticator and the Message-Authenticator attribute, and some concerns exist relating to the security of this hash [MD5Attack]. As discussed in [RFC3579] Section 4.3, the security vulnerabilities of RADIUS are extensive, and therefore development of an alternative key wrap technique based on the RADIUS shared secret would not substantially improve security. As a result, [RFC3759] Section 4.2 recommends running RADIUS over IPsec. The same approach is taken in Diameter EAP [I-D.ietf-aaa-eap], which defines cleartext key attributes, to be protected by IPsec or TLS. Where an untrusted AAA intermediary is present (such as a RADIUS proxy or a Diameter agent), and data object security is not used, the AAA-Key may be recovered by an attacker in control of the untrusted intermediary. Possession of the AAA-Key enables decryption of data traffic sent between the peer and a specific authenticator; however where key separation is implemented, compromise of the AAA-Key does not enable an attacker to impersonate the peer to another authenticator, since that requires possession of the EMSK, which is not transported by the AAA protocol. This vulnerability may be mitigated by implementation of redirect functionality, as provided in [RFC3588]. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wuhqh@eudoramail.com Fri Feb 18 01:11:45 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA02836; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:11:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D21iF-0006SP-KK; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:34:05 -0500 Received: from [211.219.15.140] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D21Mb-0005gy-KU; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:11:42 -0500 X-Message-Info: QUfqtWV0tICKx/tFJXaaQzTDsjqZbtuaMTBgia48JFN Received: from acquire-qx82.boson.prodigy.net (177.168.100.48) by njb8-f08.prodigy.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:07:40 -0300 From: Cleo Rios To: mmusic-admin@ietf.org Subject: Want to Meaat saaxy women in your area? anagram Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 04:05:40 -0200 EST Message-ID: <9320948931729745141.4413021500.777283@collectible-ui51.prodigy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--79453055543261763629" X-Spam-Score: 26.0 (++++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab ----79453055543261763629 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi my name is roy and Id like to invite you to my favorite
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chairman blouse complementary barrier. bureaucrat comma carlson assault aforementioned cosponsor. coachman cheesecake chamfer. connors claret counterargument charisma bamako. confect cantle commerce burlington blum. ----79453055543261763629-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 01:25:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04502 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563C9204CA; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:25:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D207D204EB; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:25:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28509204C8 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:24:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2112044B for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:24:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D21Z2-000ELr-Nk for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:24:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1I6OVq31216 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:24:31 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 288: Cleanup of Secure Association Section Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:24:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Issue 288: Cleanup of Secure Association Section Submitter name: Bernard Aboba Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com Date first submitted: 2/17/2005 Reference: Document: KEY-04 Comment type: T Priority: S Section: 1.3.3 Rationale/Explanation of issue There is text in several places relating to the Secure Association phase. Here is a rewrite of Section 1.3.3 that combines and revises the text: "1.3.3. Secure Association Phase The Secure Association phase (phase 2), if it occurs, begins after the completion of EAP authentication (phase 1a) and key transport (phase 1b). EAP may be used in the following scenarios: [a] Stationary peer. Where the peer is stationary it will establish communications with one or more authenticators while remaining in one location. In this scenario, EAP authentication typically represents only a small fraction of the total session time, so that it is acceptable for EAP authentication to occur each time the peer wishes to access the network. In this scenario, the Secure Association Protocol phase may be omitted. [b] Mobile peer. Where the peer is mobile, it may move its point of attachment from one authenticator to another, or between points of attachment on a single authenticator. In this scenario, it is often desirable to minimize the handoff latency, so that it is desirable to avoid EAP authentication each time the peer changes its point of attachment. In this scenario, caching of the AAA-Key be supported on the EAP peer and authenticator. In this, a Secure Assocation Protocol phase is required to allow EAP to be used securely. A Secure Association Protocol used with EAP typically supports the following features: [1] Generation of fresh transient session keys (TSKs). Where AAA-Key caching is supported, the EAP peer may initiate a new session using a AAA-Key that was used in a previous session. Were the TSKs to be derived from a portion of the AAA-Key, this would result in reuse of the session keys which could expose the underlying ciphersuite to attack. As a result, where AAA-Key caching is supported, the Secure Association Protocol phase is REQUIRED, and MUST provide for freshness of the TSKs. This is typically handled via the exchange of nonces or counters, which are then mixed with the AAA-Key in order to generate fresh unicast (phase 2a) and possibly multicast (phase 2b) session keys. By not using the AAA-Key directly to protect data, the Secure Association Protocol protects against compromise of the AAA-Key. [2] Entity Naming. A basic feature of a Secure Association Protocol is the explicit naming of the parties engaged in the exchange. Explicit identification of the parties is critical, since without this the parties engaged in the exchange are not identified and the scope of the transient session keys (TSKs) generated during the exchange is undefined. As illustrated in Figure 1, both the peer and NAS may have more than one physical or virtual port, so that port identifiers are not recommended a naming mechanism. [3] Secure capabilities negotiation. This includes the secure negotiation of usage modes, session parameters (such as key lifetimes), ciphersuites and required filters, including confirmation of the capabilities discovered during phase 0. It is RECOMMENDED that the Secure Association Protocol support secure capabilities negotiation, in order to protect against spoofing during the discovery phase, and to ensure agreement between the peer and authenticator about how data is to be secured. [4] Key management. EAP as defined in [RFC3748] supports key derivation, but not key management. While EAP methods may derive keying material, EAP does provide for the management of exported or derived keys. For example, EAP does not support negotiation of the key lifetime of exported or derived keys, nor does it support rekey. Although EAP methods may support "fast reconnect" as defined in [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1, rekey of exported keys cannot occur without reauthentication. In order to provide method independence, key management of exported or derived keys SHOULD NOT be provided within EAP methods. Since neither EAP nor EAP methods provide key management support, it is RECOMMENDED that key management facilities be provided within the Secure Association Protocol. This includes key lifetime management (such as via explicit key lifetime negotiation, or seamless rekey), as well synchronization of the installation and deletion of keys so as to enable recovery from partial or complete loss of key state by the peer or authenticator. Since key management requires a key naming scheme, Secure Association Protocols supporting key management support MUST also support key naming. [5] Mutual proof of possession of the AAA-Key. The Secure Association Protocol MUST demonstrate mutual proof of posession of the AAA-Key, in order to show that both the peer and authenticator have been authenticated and authorized by the backend authentication server. Since mutual proof of possession is not the same as mutual authentication, the peer cannot verify authenticator assertions (including the authenticator identity) as a result of this exchange." _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 02:21:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA27094 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:21:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A092064D; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:21:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F91204EB; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:21:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4C9204C8 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FAC204EB for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D22Qs-000KJI-Or for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:20:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1I7K9Q02179 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:20:09 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Pre-issue discussion: Key-caching and Key Request interactions Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:20:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) In going over Section 4, I came across an area which we have not discussed very much: key caching on the backend server. Some proposals seem to assume that the keys exported by EAP methods remain on the AAA server for some time after their creation. For example, the pre-emptive handoff proposals appear to assume that the exported keys remain on the AAA server, where they can be used to generate additional AMSKs, based on the EMSK. It also seems that proposals for "Key Request" functionality assume the existence of a key cache on the backend server. After all, for a "Key Request" to be honored, there has to be keying material present on the AAA server that can generate the requested key. One question about such a cache, if it exists, is what exactly is cached. Since the AAA server does not produce TSKs directly, and does not have access to EAP method internal state, TSKs and TEKs cannot be cached on the AAA server. Since keys transported by the AAA server are deleted, such a key cache cannot include the AAA-Key. Once the AAA-Key is sent, it is deleted from the AAA server, in order to prevent the transported key from being replayed. If the AAA-Key was based on the MSK, the MSK is gone too. However, since the EMSK is never transported, this can be cached, and serves as the root of the hierarchy of AMSKs. Based on this, my conclusion is that the AAA-Key cache, if it exists, consists of EMSKs. AMSKs are not cached because they are created on demand and are deleted once they are transported. The next question is: how long do the cached EMSKs live? My answer is that they are kept by the AAA server until Session-Time after the EAP authentication that generated them. Once the EAP authentication completes and the AAA-Key is sent a timer is set to Session-Time, and after it runs out, the EMSK and all derived keys are deleted. The timer does not stop if the session ends. Also, the timer starts when the AAA-Key is sent, not when the session starts, because in some cases the session might start considerably after the AAA-Key is sent (e.g. pre-authentication). However, the value of Session-Time is not communicated to the peer either by AAA or EAP. So how does the EAP peer know when an EMSK/AMSK has expired? I think the answer is that the EAP peer needs to be informed by the lower layer, otherwise its key cache cannot be synchronized with the authenticator and backend server. So we've talked about how the key cache on the AAA server might work, and what is in it (EMSKs). Given this, how does a "Key Request" work? As I understand it, a peer uses a protocol other than EAP (e.g. a lower layer) to request that the authenticator retrieve a key, naming that key according to the EAP Key Naming scheme. Since we've already said that the backend server does not cache MSKs (since they're deleted after transport), and the EMSK is not transportable, the key name must be the name of an AMSK. That's well and good, but how does the authenticator know which backend server to request the key from? Typically an authenticator is configured with multiple AAA servers, or sometimes with one or more proxies which can route to multiple home AAA servers. So there may be quite a few choices. Some ideas come to mind: a. The peer may know the name of the AAA server with which it completed the EAP exchange (deriving the MSK and EMSK), and can tell the authenticator using a lower layer protocol. The authenticator can then send an Access-Request containing a Key-Request attribute to the AAA server named by the peer. However, there are problems with this. While some EAP methods provide the server name, some methods do not. Thus, such an approach is not method independent. Also, some reflection on the operation of a directed "Key Request" attribute discloses that it introduces operational issues. The problem is that a directed "Key Request" attribute must cause the authenticator to direct an Access-Request to a specific AAA server. However in practice this is very difficult. The authenticator may not be set up to speak to the AAA server, it may only talk to a AAA agent who will route the request. This implies that a "Key Request" attribute needs to be placed in the Access-Request that can be interpretted by a proxy so as to cause the message to be routed appropriately. No proxies do this today, so there is a backwards compatibilty issue. Plus, what happens if the proxy isn't set up to talk to the requested destination? What error message is sent back? b. Proxies along the path route the Key Request based on the NAI in some way that guarantees that the request goes to the same server as the one that generated the exported keys, without explicitly naming it. For example, if the EAP session-id space were partitioned, then it might be possible to route the key request appropriately based on that alone. However, I don't think this works either because the Session-Id has no hierarchy, being based on nonces or counters. Also, this approach again assumes that proxies interpret the Key Request attribute in order to route packets. c. The AAA servers share a unified key cache. This allow for proxies to operate normally, since all they have to do is route the Access-Request based on the NAI. Since any server within a realm can access the unified key cache, it doesn't matter which server receives it. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From VIZUZWRG@go.ro Fri Feb 18 03:06:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02936 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D23Ux-0000V9-7f for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:28:29 -0500 Received: from [210.95.234.65] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D239I-0008VQ-Ju for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:06:05 -0500 X-Message-Info: Dvbre5E7A9IT9C6hZBBrdlNKQF6outSB297kyCCDwpOEYB3 Received: from 32.20.174.218 by ip-EAC-44-BEC-D3.g.VIZUZWRG@go.ro (AppleMailServer 31.C.8.E) id EFCB14AD7 via NDR; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:59:53 +0500 Reply-To: "Gonzalo W Ambrose" From: "Gonzalo W Ambrose" To: "Eap-archive" Subject: too heavy to ship with fedex? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:00:53 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--CDF6A7A33A6B4E389" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 25.0 (+++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 ----CDF6A7A33A6B4E389 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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which I claimed could be compared to quasi-objects William Smith's "Mandrill," or "Boggoe," as his description and figure tes= tify, was, without doubt, a Chimpanzee. ----CDF6A7A33A6B4E389-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 07:32:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25242 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547E620657; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:32:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DF22065B; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:32:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712242065B for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3314620657 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AB689883; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:31:25 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4215DFC4.8030600@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue 254: Key Lifetime Issues References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:29:56 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks OK to me. A few nits inline: > 4. Key Management > > The EAP peer, authenticator and backend server may support key > caching. Since EAP supports key derivation, but not key management, > this functionality needs to be provided by the Secure Association > Protocol. Key management support includes: > > [a] Key lifetime determination. EAP does not support negotiation of > key lifetimes, nor does it support rekey without reauthentication. > As a result, the Secure Association Protocol is responsible for > rekey and determination of the key lifetime. Where key caching is > supported, secure negotiation of key lifetimes is RECOMMENDED. > Lower layers that support rekey, but not key caching may not > require key lifetime negotiation. To take an example from IKE, the > difference between IKEv1 and IKEv2 is that in IKEv1 SA lifetimes > were negotiated. In IKEv2, each end of the SA is responsible for > enforcing its own lifetime policy on the SA and rekeying the SA > when necessary. > > [b] Key resynchronization. It is possible for the peer or > authenticator to reboot or reclaim resources, clearing portions or > all of the key cache. Therefore, key lifetime negotiation cannot > guarantee that the key cache will remain synchronized, and the peer > may not be able to determine before attempting to use a AAA-Key > whether it exists within the authenticator cache. It is therefore > RECOMMENDED for the Secure Association Protocol to provide a > mechanism for key state resynchronization. Since in this situation > one or more of the parties initially do not possess a key with > which to protect the resynchronization exchange, securing this > mechanism may be difficult. > > [c] Key selection. Where key caching is supported, it may be possible > for the EAP peer and authenticator to share more than one key of a > given type. As a result, the Secure Association Protocol needs to > support key selection, using the EAP Key Naming scheme described in > this document. > > [d] Key scope determination. Since the Discovery phase is handled out- > of-band, EAP does not provide a mechanism by which the peer can > determine the authenticator identity. As a result, where the > authenticator has multiple ports and AAA-Key caching is supported, > the EAP peer may not be able to determine the scope of validity of > a AAA-Key. Similarly, where the EAP peer has multiple ports, the > authenticator may not be able to determine whether a peer has > authorization to use a particular AAA-Key. To allow key scope > determination, the lower layer SHOULD provide a mechanism by which > the peer can determine the scope of the AAA-Key cache on each > authenticator, and by which the authenticator can determine the > scope of the AAA-Key cache on a peer. > > 4.1. Key Caching > > Key caching may be supported on the EAP peer, authenticator and > backend server. Where explicitly supported by the lower layer, the > EAP peer and authenticator MAY cache the AAA-Key and/or TSKs. The > structure of the key cache on the peer and authenticator is defined > by the lower layer. Unless specified by the lower layer, the EAP > peer, authenticator and server MUST assume that peers and > authenticators do not cache the AAA-Key or TSKs. > > The EAP peer and server MAY cache keys exported by the EAP method as > well as keys derived from them, subject to the following > restrictions: > > [1] In order to avoid key reuse, on the EAP server, transported keys > are deleted once they are sent. An EAP server MUST NOT retain keys > that it has previously sent to the authenticator. For example, an > EAP server that has transported a AAA-Key based on the MSK MUST > delete both the AAA-Key and the MSK, and no keys may be derived > from either the AAA-Key or the MSK from that point forward. s/forward/forward by the server/ (we still want to allow the NAS to derive keys from MSK...) > [2] Keys which are not transported, such as the EMSK, MAY be cached on > the EAP server. While AMSKs calculated from the EMSK MUST be > deleted from the EAP server once they are transported, the parent > EMSK may remain in the EAP server cache. > > 4.2. Parent-Child Relationships > > When keying material exported by EAP methods expires, all keying > material derived from the exported keying material expires, including > the AAA-Key, AMSKs and TSKs. > > When an EAP reauthentication takes place, new keying material is > derived and exported by the EAP method, which eventually results in > replacement of calculated keys, including the AAA-Key, AMSKs, and > TSKs. > > As a result, while the lifetime of calculated keys can be less than > or equal that of the exported keys they are derived from, it cannot > be greater. For example, TSK rekey may occur prior to EAP > reauthentication. > > Failure to mutually prove possession of the AAA-Key during the Secure > Association Protocol exchange need not be grounds for deletion of the > AAA-Key by both parties; rate-limiting Secure Association Protocol > exchanges could be used to prevent a brute force attack. > > 4.3. Local Key Lifetimes > > The Transient EAP Keys (TEKs) are session keys used to protect the > EAP conversation. The TEKs are internal to the EAP method and are > not exported. TEKs are typically created during an EAP conversation, > used until the end of the conversation and then discarded. However, > methods may rekey TEKs during a conversation. > > When using TEKs within an EAP conversation or across conversations, > it is necessary to ensure that replay protection and key separation > requirements are fulfilled. For instance, if a replay counter is > used, TEK rekey MUST occur prior to wrapping of the counter. > Similarly, TSKs MUST remain cryptographically separate from TEKs > despite TEK rekeying or caching. This prevents TEK compromise from > leading directly to compromise of the TSKs and vice versa. > > EAP methods may cache local keying material which may persist for > multiple EAP conversations when fast reconnect is used [RFC 3748]. > For example, EAP methods based on TLS (such as EAP-TLS [RFC2716]) > derive and cache the TLS Master Secret, typically for substantial > time periods. The lifetime of other local keying material calculated > within the EAP method is defined by the method. Note that in > general, when using fast reconnect, there is no guarantee to that the > original long-term credentials are still in the possession of the > peer. For instance, a card hold holding the private key for EAP-TLS > may have been removed. EAP servers should verify that the long-term s/should/SHOULD also/ > credentials are still valid, such as by checking that certificate > used in the original authentication has not yet expired. > > 4.4. Exported and Calculated Key Lifetimes > > All EAP methods generating keys are required to generate the MSK and > EMSK, and may optionally generate the IV. However, EAP, defined in > [RFC3748], does not support the negotiation of lifetimes for exported > keying material such as the MSK, EMSK and IV. > > Several mechanisms exist for managing key lifetimes: > > [a] AAA attributes. AAA protocols such as RADIUS [RFC2865] and > Diameter [DiamEAP] support the Session-Timeout attribute. The > Session-Timeout value represents the maximum lifetime of the > exported keys, and all keys calculated from it. If the AAA server > caches exported keys, then it MUST expire the exported keys and all > keys calculated from them, no later than the future time indicated > by Session-Timeout. > > On the authenticator, where EAP is used for authentication, the > Session-Timeout value represents the maximum session time prior to > re-authentication, as described in [RFC3580]. Where EAP is used > for pre-authentication, the session may not start until some future > time, or may never occur. Nevertheless, the Session-Timeout value > represents the time after which the AAA-Key, and all keys > calculated from it, will have expired on the authenticator. If the > session subsequently starts, re-authentication will be initiated > once the Session-Time has expired. If the session never started, > or started and ended, the AAA-Key and all keys calculated from it > will be expired by the authenticator prior to the future time > indicated by Session-Timeout. > > Since the TSK lifetime is often determined by authenticator > resources, the AAA server has no insight into the TSK derivation > process, and by the principle of ciphersuite independence, it is > not appropriate for the AAA server to manage any aspect of the TSK > derivation process, including the TSK lifetime. > > [b] Lower layer mechanisms. While AAA attributes can communicate the > maximum exported key lifetime, this only serves to synchronize the > key lifetime between the backend authentication server and the > authenticator. Lower layer mechanisms can then be used to enable > the lifetime of exported and calculated keys to be negotiated > between the peer and authenticator. > > Where TSKs are established as the result of a Secure Association > Protocol exchange, it is RECOMMENDED that the Secure Association > Protocol include support for TSK resynchronization. Where the TSK > is taken from the AAA-Key, there is no need to manage the TSK > lifetime as a separate parameter, since the TSK lifetime and AAA- > Key lifetime are identical. > > [c] System defaults. Where the EAP method does not support the > negotiation of the exported key lifetime, and a key lifetime > negotiation mechanism is not provided by the lower lower, there may > be no way for the peer to learn the exported key liftime. In this > case it is RECOMMENDED that the peer assume a default value of the > exported key lifetime; 8 hours is suggested. Similarly, the > lifetime of calculated keys can also be managed as a system > parameter on the authenticator. > > 4.5. Key cache synchronization > > Issues arise when attempting to synchronize the key cache on the peer > and authenticator. Lifetime negotiation alone cannot guarantee key > cache synchronization. > > One problem is that the AAA protocol cannot guarantee synchronization > of key lifetimes between the peer and authenticator. Where the > Secure Association Protocol is not run immediately after EAP > authentication, the exported and calculated key lifetimes will not be > known by the peer during the hiatus. Where EAP pre-authentication > occurs, this can leave the peer uncertain whether a subsequent > attempt to use the exported keys will prove successful. > > However, even where the Secure Association Protocol is run > immediately after EAP, it is still possible for the authenticator to > reclaim resources if the created key state is not immediately > utilized. > > The lower layer may utilize Discovery mechanisms to assist in this. > For example, the authenticator manages the AAA-Key cache by deleting > the oldest AAA-Key first (LIFO), the relative creation time of the > last AAA-Key to be deleted could be advertised with the Discovery > phase, enabling the peer to determine whether a given AAA-Key had > been expired from the authenticator key cache prematurely. Should we talk about the potential use of the EAP channel (with things like draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth) to deliver lifetime information? I'm not proposing that we need to do that -- in fact I'm quite happy with the "system default" approach -- but sounds like it is something might be mentioned. > 4.6. Key Scope Issues > > As described in Section 2.3, the AAA-Key is calculated from the EMSK > and MSK by the EAP peer and server, and is used as the root of the > ciphersuite-specific key hierarchy. Where a backend authentication > server is present, the AAA-Key is transported from the EAP server to > the authenticator; where it is not present, the AAA-Key is calculated > on the authenticator. > > Regardless of how many sessions are initiated using it, the AAA-Key > scope is between the EAP peer that calculates it, and the > authenticator that either calculates it (where no backend > authenticator is present) or receives it from the server (where a > backend authenticator server is present). > > It should be understood that an authenticator or peer: > > [a] may contain multiple physical ports; > [b] may advertise itself as multiple "virtual" authenticators > or peers; > [c] may utilize multiple CPUs; > [d] may support clustering services for load balancing or failover. > > As illustrated in Figure 1, an EAP peer with multiple ports may be > attached to one or more authenticators, each with multiple ports. > Where the peer and authenticator identify themselves using a port > identifier such as a link layer address, it may not be obvious to the > peer which authenticator ports are associated with which > authenticators. Similarly, it may not be obvious to the > authenticator which peer ports are associated with which peers. As a > result, the peer and authenticator may not be able to determine the > scope of the AAA-Key. > > When a single physical authenticator advertises itself as multiple > "virtual authenticators", the EAP peer and authenticator also may not > be able to agree on the scope of the AAA-Key, creating a security > vulnerability. For example, the peer may assume that the "virtual > authenticators" are distinct and do not share a key cache, whereas, > depending on the architecture of the physical AP, a shared key cache > may or may not be implemented. > > Where the AAA-Key is shared between "virtual authenticators" an > attacker acting as a peer could authenticate with the "Guest" > "virtual authenticator" and derive a AAA-Key. If the virtual > authenticators share a key cache, then the peer can utilize the AAA- > Key derived for the "Guest" network to obtain access to the > "Corporate Intranet" virtual authenticator. > > Several measures are recommended to address these issues: > > [a] Authenticators are REQUIRED to cache associated authorizations > along with the AAA-Key and apply authorizations consistently. This > ensures that an attacker cannot obtain elevated privileges even > where the AAA-Key cache is shared between "virtual authenticators". > > [b] It is RECOMMENDED that physical authenticators maintain separate > AAA-Key caches for each "virtual authenticator". > > [c] It is RECOMMENDED that each "virtual authenticator" identify itself > distinctly to the AAA server, such as by utilizing a distinct NAS- > identifier attribute. This enables the AAA server to utilize a > separate credential to authenticate each "virtual authenticator". > > [d] It is RECOMMENDED that Secure Association Protocols identify peers > and authenticators unambiguously, without incorporating implicit > assumptions about peer and authenticator architectures. Using > port-specific MAC addresses as identifiers is NOT RECOMMENDED where > peers and authenticators may support multiple ports. > > [e] The AAA server and authenticator MAY implement additional > attributes in order to further restrict the AAA-Key scope. For > example, in 802.11, the AAA server may provide the authenticator > with a list of authorized Called or Calling-Station-Ids and/or > SSIDs for which the AAA-Key is valid. > > [f] Where the AAA server provides attributes restricting the key scope, > it is RECOMMENDED that restrictions be securely communicated by the > authenticator to the peer. This is typically accomplished using > the Secure Association Protocol, but also can be accomplished via > the EAP method or the lower layer. > > 4.7. Key Strength > > In order to guard against brute force attacks, EAP methods deriving > keys need to be capable of generating keys with an appropriate > effective symmetric key strength. In order to ensure that key > generation is not the weakest link, it is RECOMMENDED that EAP > methods utilizing public key cryptography choose a public key that > has a cryptographic strength meeting the symmetric key strength > requirement. > > As noted in [RFC3766] Section 5, this results in the following > required RSA or DH module and DSA subgroup size in bits, for a given > level of attack resistance in bits: > > Attack Resistance RSA or DH Modulus DSA subgroup > (bits) size (bits) size (bits) > ----------------- ----------------- ------------ > 70 947 128 > 80 1228 145 > 90 1553 153 > 100 1926 184 > 150 4575 279 > 200 8719 373 > 250 14596 475 > > 4.8. Key Wrap > > As described in [RFC3579] Section 4.3, known problems exist in the > key wrap specified in [RFC2548]. Where the same RADIUS shared secret > is used by a PAP authenticator and an EAP authenticator, there is a > vulnerability to known plaintext attack. Since RADIUS uses the > shared secret for multiple purposes, including per-packet > authentication, attribute hiding, considerable information is exposed > about the shared secret with each packet. This exposes the shared > secret to dictionary attacks. MD5 is used both to compute the RADIUS > Response Authenticator and the Message-Authenticator attribute, and > some concerns exist relating to the security of this hash > [MD5Attack]. > > As discussed in [RFC3579] Section 4.3, the security vulnerabilities > of RADIUS are extensive, and therefore development of an alternative > key wrap technique based on the RADIUS shared secret would not > substantially improve security. As a result, [RFC3759] Section 4.2 > recommends running RADIUS over IPsec. The same approach is taken in > Diameter EAP [I-D.ietf-aaa-eap], which defines cleartext key > attributes, to be protected by IPsec or TLS. > > Where an untrusted AAA intermediary is present (such as a RADIUS > proxy or a Diameter agent), and data object security is not used, the > AAA-Key may be recovered by an attacker in control of the untrusted > intermediary. Possession of the AAA-Key enables decryption of data > traffic sent between the peer and a specific authenticator; however > where key separation is implemented, compromise of the AAA-Key does > not enable an attacker to impersonate the peer to another > authenticator, since that requires possession of the EMSK, which is > not transported by the AAA protocol. This vulnerability may be > mitigated by implementation of redirect functionality, as provided in > [RFC3588]. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From vrutxavqidh@go2.pl Fri Feb 18 11:02:23 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24613; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:02:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip-68.net-82-216-236.rev.numericable.fr ([82.216.236.68]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2Avx-00068N-GZ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:24:50 -0500 Received: from palpable.softhome.net (HELO soft.net) (176.196.216.63) by inefficacy-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:57:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:00:08 -0300 Message-Id: <68TY87FE-0F24-11D7-A3B5-0050E4C05556@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> From: "Osvaldo Cain" To: Subject: An Honest Hand. X-Sender: vrutxavqidh@go2.pl X-Antivirus: avast! 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Go here to change your life forever. http://www.rgeg546.com/ NO THANKS http://www.rgeg546.com/gone.asp From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 11:23:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00974 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 527B320496; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C878B2048E; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:23:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9E22048E for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:22:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0C920486 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:22:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D2AtW-000Kmz-NI for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:22:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1IGMH403783 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:22:17 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Update to IEEE 802 attributes draft Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:22:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) An update to the IEEE 802 attributes draft has been submitted. 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N0-re m0val are re'qui-red 6PHb0PTo0qmax2MFbH2Dmaxa1FD57vyMb36cwwcZi12txQSo From Ramos@thirdage.com Fri Feb 18 13:15:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16078 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:15:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2D0S-0004B8-Mu for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:37:37 -0500 Received: from [62.85.16.161] (helo=mailclub.net) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D2CpQ-0002Vl-IH for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:26:23 -0500 From: "Peters Jefferson" To: "Kaloferova Liuba" Subject: Re[5]: discussion with our meds Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:14:00 +0100 Message-ID: <055101c515e5$11944d56$a110553e@mailclub.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_CDEF_01234567.89ABCDEF" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 06d29b9b22258f4f07fe89b4d4a05a86 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_CDEF_01234567.89ABCDEF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. 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Expe ce thr es lon gas rien ee tim ger or ms Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of ------=_NextPart_000_CDEF_01234567.89ABCDEF-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 13:34:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19224 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619C0204A8; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1FE204AF; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:34:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DB1204AF for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9FC6204A8 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D2Cw4-0002zb-4w; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:33:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1IIX2K12147; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:33:02 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue 254: Key Lifetime Issues In-Reply-To: <4215DFC4.8030600@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <4215DFC4.8030600@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > s/forward/forward by the server/ (we still want to allow the > NAS to derive keys from MSK...) Change made. > s/should/SHOULD also/ Change made. > Should we talk about the potential use of the EAP channel (with > things like draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth) to deliver > lifetime information? I'm not proposing that we need to do that -- > in fact I'm quite happy with the "system default" approach -- but > sounds like it is something might be mentioned. Yes, I think we should discuss this. Can you file an issue on that subject? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 13:55:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22246 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00CD204DB; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A66204E1; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:55:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CE8204D3 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:54:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE23204BB for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:54:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D2DGb-000H1R-MJ for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:54:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1IIsGr13503 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:54:16 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 289: Format of EAP Key Names Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Issue 289: Format of EAP Key names Submitter name: Bernard Aboba Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com Date first submitted: 2/18/2005 Reference: Document: KEY-04 Comment type: T Priority: S Section: 2.5 Rationale/Explanation of issue The current draft is not clear on how the format of the key name. Is this binary or is it expressed in ASCII? How are the fields separated? The following rewrite of Section 2.5 is intended to clarify these issues: "2.5. Key Naming Each key created within the EAP key management framework has a name (the identifier by which the key can be identified), as well as a scope (the parties to whom the key is available). This section describes how keys are named, and the scope within which that name applies. Session-Id EAP methods supporting key naming MUST specify a temporally unique method identifier known as the EAP Method-Id, which is typically constructed from nonces or counters used within the exchange. Since multiple EAP sessions may exist between an EAP peer and EAP server, the Method-Id allows MSKs to be differentiated. The concatenation of the EAP Type (expressed in ASCII text), ":" and the Method-Id (also expressed in ASCII text) is known as the EAP Session-Id. The inclusion of the Type in the EAP Session-Id ensures that each EAP method has a distinct name space. The EAP Session-Id uniquely identifies the EAP session to the EAP peer and server terminating the EAP conversation. However, suitable EAP peer and server names may not always be available. As described in [RFC3748] Section 7.3, the identity provided in the EAP- Response/Identity, may be different from the identity authenticated by the EAP method, and as a result the EAP-Response/Identity is unsuitable for determination of the peer identity. As a result, the Session-Id scope is defined by the EAP peer name (if securely exchanged within the method) concatenated with the EAP server name (also only if securely exchanged). Where a peer or server name is missing the null string is used. Since an EAP session is not bound to a particular authentication or specific ports on the peer and authenticator, the authenticator port or identity are not included in the Session-Id scope. The EAP Session-Id is exported by the EAP method along with the Session-Id scope, if available, and is used to construct names for other EAP keys. Note that the EAP Session-Id and scope are only known by the EAP method. As a result, the format of the EAP Session- Id and the definition of the Session-Id scope needs to be specified within the method. Appendix E defines the EAP Session-Id and scope provided by existing methods. MSK Name This key is created between the EAP peer and EAP server, and can be referred to using the string "MSK:", concatenated with the EAP Session-Id. As with the EAP Session-Id, the MSK scope is defined by the EAP peer name (if securely exchanged within the method) and the EAP server name (also only if securely exchanged). Where a peer or server name is missing the null string is used. EMSK Name The EMSK can be referred to using the string "EMSK:", concatenated with the EAP Session-Id. As with the EAP Session-Id, the EMSK scope is defined by the EAP peer name (if securely exchanged within the method) and the EAP server name (also only if securely exchanged). Where a peer or server name is missing the null string is used. AMSK Name AMSKs, if any, can be referred to using the string "AMSK:", the key label, ":", application data (see Section 2.4), ":", and the EAP Session-Id. As with the EAP Session-Id, the AMSK scope is defined by the EAP peer name (if securely exchanged within the method), ":" and the EAP server name (also only if securely exchanged). Where a peer or server name is missing the null string is used. AAA-Key Name The AAA-Key is derived from either the MSK or AMSK and so can be referred to using the MSK or AMSK names. The AAA-Key scope is provided by the concatenation of the EAP peer name (if securely provided to the authenticator), and the authenticator name (if securely provided to the peer). For the purpose of identifying the authenticator to the peer, the value of the NAS-Identifier attribute is recommended. The authenticator may include the NAS-Identifier attribute to the AAA server in an Access-Request, and the authenticator may provide the NAS-Identifier (unsecured) to the EAP peer in the EAP- Request/Identity or via a lower layer mechanism (such as the 802.11 Beacon/Probe Response). Where the NAS-Identifier is provided by the authenticator to the peer a secure mechanism is RECOMMENDED. For the purpose of identifying the peer to the authenticator, the EAP peer identifier provided within the EAP method is recommended. It cannot be assumed that the authenticator is aware of the EAP peer name used within the method. Therefore alternatives mechanisms need to be used to provide the EAP peer name to the authenticator. For example, the AAA server may include the EAP peer name in the User- Name attribute of the Access-Accept or the peer may provide the authenticator with its name via a lower layer mechanism. Absent an explicit binding step within the Secure Association Protocol, the AAA-Key is not bound to a specific peer or authenticator port. As a result, the peer or authenticator port over which the EAP conversation takes place is not included in the AAA-Key scope. PMK Name This document does not specify a naming scheme for the PMK. The PMK is only identified by the AAA-Key from which it is derived. Similarly, the PMK scope is the same as the AAA-Key scope. Note: IEEE 802.11i names the PMKID for the purposes of being able to refer to it in the Secure Association protocol; this naming is based on a hash of the PMK itself as well as some other parameters (see Section 8.5.1.2 [IEEE80211i]). TEKs The TEKs may or may not be named. Their naming is specified in the EAP method. Since the TEKs are only known by the EAP peer and server, the TEK scope is the same as the Session-Id scope. TSKs The TSKs are typically named. Their naming is specified in the Secure Association (phase 2) protocol, so that the correct set of transient session keys can be identified for processing a given packet. The scope of the TSKs is negotiated within the Secure Association Protocol. TSK creation and deletion operations are typically supported so that establishment and re-establishment of TSKs can be synchronized between the parties. In order to avoid confusion in the case where an EAP peer has more than one AAA-Key (phase 1b) applicable to establishment of a phase 2 security association, the secure Association protocol needs to utilize the AAA-Key name so that the appropriate phase 1b keying material can be identified for use in the Secure Association Protocol exchange." _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wo16288@126.com Fri Feb 18 18:42:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22771 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:42:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502182342.SAA22771@ietf.org> Received: from [218.18.30.71] (helo=126.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2I7e-0006hY-8e for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:05:28 -0500 From: =?GB2312?B?ye7b2si6waa/xry8?= Subject: =?GB2312?B?v+zL2deo0rXJz8PFzqzQ3rXnxNQ=?= To: eap-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html;charset="GB2312" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 07:42:28 +0800 X-Priority: 2 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 8.9 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a ÎÞ±êÌâÎĵµ
 
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From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Feb 18 21:11:11 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA11555 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:11:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D762052A; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7EC12052C; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:11:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33692052D for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7552052A for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1J2AAtp029964; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:10:10 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1J2A3UM005653; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:10:05 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005021818100507195 ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:10:05 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:10:05 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Thread-Index: AcUWKB/D3Fp+Xuy5Ri6iMayo0WKsgA== From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Jari Arkko" , , , "Eugene Chang" , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2005 02:10:05.0553 (UTC) FILETIME=[20D91E10:01C51628] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:10:03 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jari, Glen, Joe, Eugene, Sam, all Thank you for reviewing the draft and providing your feedback/comments. We have revised the draft to provide resolution to issues that you raised. I just submitted version -08, so it does not yet appear on I-D repository yet. In the mean time, you can access the draft here: =20 http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adrangi-eap-net work-discovery-08.txt Special thanks to Jari for proposing text to address some of the issues. A summary of changes can be found below. BR, Farid *** Abstract - the following paragraph was added " The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for advertising connectivity of access network to a limited number of roaming partners that find such advertisement of their presence useful. " *** Section 1 " Exactly how the identity hint information is used by the peer depends largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the scope of this document. In many roaming situations, an access network can have several roaming relationships, either with several home networks, or with mediating networks such as roaming consortiums and brokers, or both. One possible application for this mechanism is to help in selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home AAA server. If there are several possible mediating networks, the peer can choose which one to use. However, exactly how the selection is made is beyond the scope of this document. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed discussion about this problem space. " Replaced/modified with " One possible application for this mechanism is to help an EAP peer in selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home AAA server. If there are several possible mediating networks, the peer can choose which one to use. Exactly how the selection is made by the peer depends largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the scope of this document. For example, the peer could decide to use another identity it has, decide to switch to another access network, or attempt to reformat its NAI [rfc2486bis] to assist in proper AAA routing. This document is also related to the general network discovery and selection problem. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed discussion about this problem space. " *** A new Section 1.1 (Applicability) was added " 1.1 Applicability Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally sufficient, and the identity hints are typically useful only when there's too much ambiquity to try all client identities and access network combinations efficiently, or when the scale of the roaming associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all access networks to all home networks. This can happen, for instance, when access networks have contracts with multiple roaming consortiums but do not have a full list of home networks reachable through them. In the situations mentioned above, a limited number of identity hints can be provided by the mechanism described in this document. Even in this case, for security reasons it is required that the networks that are listed in these hints consent to such advertisements. The immediate application of the proposed mechanism is in 3GPP systems inteworking with WLANs [TS.23.234] and [TS.24.234]. The roaming partner information provided via this mechanism is limited by the link layer MTU size. For example, assuming an average of 20 octets per roaming partner / home network information and the link layer MTU size of 1096, the approximate number of roaming partners that can be advertised would be 50. The scalability limitation imposed by the link layer MTU size should be taken into consideration when deploying this solution. " *** Section 2 " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this specification), then if the EAP server receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. If after the EAP server sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity containing an unacceptable NAI Realm, then the EAP server MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. " Was replaced with=20 " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. " *** Section 4 (Security) - The following paragraph was added " Any information revealed either from the network or client sides before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security risk. For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a poor authentication method can make it easier for attackers to discover that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent of the network being advertised in the hints is required before such hints can be sent. " _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From asleykettel@mail.bulgaria.com Fri Feb 18 23:51:29 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA24605; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:51:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [61.76.105.129] (helo=nativeweb.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2MwF-0000Sr-0a; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 00:14:03 -0500 message-id: <02cd01c5163e$a8e34fe0$740a16ad@vfxelqs> Reply-To: From: "Viagra, Cialis, Xanax, Valium..." 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helo=hkid.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2PCQ-0004dR-T7; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:38:58 -0500 From: "Verkerk Jeroen" To: "Alawy Rachel" Subject: Re[5]: talk thread about her tabs Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:19:54 -0300 Message-ID: <70d601c51653$003fd1f8$640fed42@hkid.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_89AB_CDEF0123.456789AB" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6379955759c38e2371a49573a0932fc7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_89AB_CDEF0123.456789AB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. 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From hynuhvz@erols.com Sat Feb 19 10:12:10 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10796; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:12:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2Wd6-0001L1-U5; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:34:50 -0500 Received: from [219.130.210.215] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D2WH9-00069v-Uh; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:12:09 -0500 Received: (from i1@localhost) by wn770-01.yov8c.telusplanet.net (9.70.42/9.13.20) id yok998EI034dqn26890; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:05:49 -0200 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: jn61-30.gxz4qgoe.telusplanet.net: cn4 set sender to hynuhvz@erols.com using -a MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:03:49 -0100 From: Stacey Anaya Subject: You've been approved at 3.25 To: ipoverib-web-archive@ietf.org Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--sepvxuurp56871332142unqklo" X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f ----sepvxuurp56871332142unqklo Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Homeowner You have been pre-approved for a $400,000 Home Loan at a 3.25= % Fixed Rate. 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To take Advantage of this Limited Time opportunity All we ask is that you visit our Website and complete The 1 minute post Approval Form http://www.grrrrreat.com/m0rt.asp Sincerely, Lawanda Jenkins http://www.grrrrreat.com/m0rt.asp ----------------------------------------- Discontinue http://www.grrrrreat.com/gone.asp ----sepvxuurp56871332142unqklo-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 19 15:00:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA02081 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C20205BB; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE63205BC; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:00:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04FC3205B8 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:59:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EF6205B5 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D2akl-0004bE-MO for eap@frascone.com; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:58:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1JJwwO06995 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:58:58 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:58:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Issue 290: State Tracking Submitter name: Bernard Aboba Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com Date first submitted: 2/18/2005 Reference: Document: IDSEL-08 Comment type: T Priority: S Section: 2 Rationale/Explanation of issue There are paragraphs in the latest version of the draft which change the behavior of AAA proxies: " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure." I think the document needs to suggest how the above changes can be implemented without requiring RADIUS proxies to keep state. For example, use of the State attribute might be mentioned. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 19 15:24:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04662 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79B8205B5; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FA8205B8; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:24:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E73205B8 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr004.jf.intel.com (fmr19.intel.com [134.134.136.18]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83969205B5 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:23:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr004.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1JKNtfs020980; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:23:55 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1JKNqu0010617; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:23:52 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005021912235220359 ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:23:52 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:23:52 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking Thread-Index: AcUWvaKUUnlHGw5PSOudBMLmp+L9LQAASGdg From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2005 20:23:52.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED90D130:01C516C0] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:23:51 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, Good catch! Thanks! We explain this in the appendix -- but now since we changed the language in section 2 we need to mention this in the normative part. We can revise the text as below " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy, a RADIUS State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS proxy determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the EAP peer. If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. " =20 The second paragraph above will be removed from the appendix. Will this work for you? BR, Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:59 AM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking >=20 >=20 > Issue 290: State Tracking > Submitter name: Bernard Aboba > Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com > Date first submitted: 2/18/2005 > Reference: > Document: IDSEL-08 > Comment type: T > Priority: S > Section: 2 > Rationale/Explanation of issue >=20 > There are paragraphs in the latest version of the draft which=20 > change the > behavior of AAA proxies: >=20 > " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown > realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > identity hint. >=20 > If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity=20 > containing > an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure." >=20 > I think the document needs to suggest how the above changes can be > implemented without requiring RADIUS proxies to keep state. =20 > For example, > use of the State attribute might be mentioned. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Feb 19 17:10:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11848 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F09E205C4; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6088205C5; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:10:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EAA205C3 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:09:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7580205BD for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1JM9BXR026863; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:09:11 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1JM9BOc016744; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:09:11 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005021914091018043 ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:09:10 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:09:10 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking Thread-Index: AcUWvaKUUnlHGw5PSOudBMLmp+L9LQAASGdgAAPcQlA= From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2005 22:09:10.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[A3A30B60:01C516CF] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:09:10 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, I would revise my proposal slightly, as below " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. When an Identity hint is sent by a AAA proxy, the AAA proxy MUST be able to determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it=20 to the EAP peer. For example, when RADIUS is used, State(24) attribute can be used to achieve this. " BR, Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > On Behalf Of Adrangi, Farid > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Bernard Aboba; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking >=20 >=20 > Hi Bernard, >=20 > Good catch! Thanks! We explain this in the appendix -- but=20 > now since we > changed the language in section 2 we need to mention this in the > normative part. We can revise the text as below >=20 > " > The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown > realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > identity hint. >=20 > When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy, a RADIUS > State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS proxy > determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the > EAP peer. >=20 > If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity=20 > containing > an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. > " =20 >=20 > The second paragraph above will be removed from the appendix.=20 > Will this > work for you? >=20 > BR, > Farid >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > > On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:59 AM > > To: eap@frascone.com > > Subject: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking > >=20 > >=20 > > Issue 290: State Tracking > > Submitter name: Bernard Aboba > > Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com > > Date first submitted: 2/18/2005 > > Reference: > > Document: IDSEL-08 > > Comment type: T > > Priority: S > > Section: 2 > > Rationale/Explanation of issue > >=20 > > There are paragraphs in the latest version of the draft which=20 > > change the > > behavior of AAA proxies: > >=20 > > " The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the=20 > peer in the > > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > > specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > > specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown > > realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > > identity hint. > >=20 > > If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity=20 > > containing > > an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > > containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond > > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure." > >=20 > > I think the document needs to suggest how the above changes can be > > implemented without requiring RADIUS proxies to keep state. =20 > > For example, > > use of the State attribute might be mentioned. > > _______________________________________________ > > eap mailing list > > eap@frascone.com > > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From ashima@about.com Sat Feb 19 18:45:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA20483 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [82.158.26.189] (helo=189.red-82-158-26.user.auna.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2edp-0005yn-Fg for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:08:07 -0500 Message-ID: <091d01c516da$18dc3a35$b2fb2763@about.com> From: "Paul A. 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To: disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org, geopriv@ietf.org, gsmp-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Pharmacy you need Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:09:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0IS_03G9172IL_02O.979B37I0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ADDU Mailer v2.0.8 X-Spam-Score: 6.0 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 43ca87c8fcef5d9f6e966e1c3917103e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0IS_03G9172IL_02O.979B37I0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00JB_06M3383ID_03B.188Q28T0" ------=0_00JB_06M3383ID_03B.188Q28T0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://hremdabplgaob.viag.net/ph/sevy/21/zhbhbll.jsp Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separate you from friends... If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you already there? Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bare necessity. A friendship founded on business is better than a business founded on friendship. Grove giveth and Gates taketh away. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. Dancing is silent poetry. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. Logic is in the eye of the logician.Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me. What do you take me for, an idiot? Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live wit hin. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves. A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Dancing is silent poetry. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza. In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Hope is like a road in the country: there was never a road, but when many people walk on it, the road comes into existence. The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolate is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. Sleep is an excellent way of listening to an opera. I would have made a good Pope. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. A clever man commits no minor blunders. When you do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or from the meeting of your sparks. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. A witty saying proves nothing. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter. If a man does his best, what else is there? The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. ------=0_00JB_06M3383ID_03B.188Q28T0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D= Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separat= e you from friends... If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you = already there? Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation = I have while working. Autumn is the time when seasons merge because of bar= e necessity. A friendship founded on business is better than a business fo= unded on friendship. Grove giveth and Gates taketh away. A book may lie do= rmant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a= library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses th= at it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. = In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: wh= atever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. When you have to k= ill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. Make everything as simple as pos= sible, but not simpler. Dancing is silent poetry. Compassion is the antito= xin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulse= s remain relatively harmless. Logic is in the eye of the logician.Very lit= tle is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way= of thinking. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in mome= nts of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge = and controversy. True friendship comes when the silence between two people= is comfortable. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes i= nto you. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than pr= oblems to solve. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same= Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time. Iron rusts from di= suse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; = even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Give me chastity and cont= inence, but not yet. If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody= , come sit next to me. What do you take me for, an idiot? Love takes off m= asks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. W= hen I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. When we drink, = we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we c= ommit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get dr= unk and go to heaven! I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a ... b= rain operation. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one act= ivity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. I = think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. God is a comedian playing= to an audience too afraid to laugh. Nothing splendid has ever been achiev= ed except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superi= or to circumstances. When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be p= olite. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Obstacles are th= ose frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. People= demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they= avoid. I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not i= n order to enjoy ourselves. A lie gets halfway around the world before the= truth has a chance to get its pants on. There is more stupidity than hydr= ogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. Give me chastity and= continence, but not yet. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are= the same. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,= and I'm not sure about the former. The secret of success is to know somet= hing nobody else knows. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it,= than to be sane and have one's doubts. Beer is proof that God loves us an= d wants us to be happy. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its p= urity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vi= gor of the mind. Dancing is silent poetry. Sometimes our light goes out bu= t is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest than= ks to those who have rekindled this light. Whether you think that you can,= or that you can't, you are usually right. Once you eliminate the impossib= le, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. But at = my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. The game of lif= e is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. It is= much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one= 's doubts. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dar= ed believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. When = I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about h= ow to solve the problem. Without question, the greatest invention in the h= istory of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine = invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza. In the End= , we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our fr= iends. Hope is like a road in the country: there was never a road, but whe= n many people walk on it, the road comes into existence. The difference be= tween 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: th= e chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. It's not that chocolat= es are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute for chocolate. Chocolat= e is, let's face it, far more reliable than a man. Sleep is an excellent w= ay of listening to an opera. I would have made a good Pope. Obstacles are = those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. Know= ledge speaks, but wisdom listens. I have often regretted my speech, never = my silence. A clever man commits no minor blunders. When you do the common= things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the = world. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children;= now I have six children and no theories. When you're in love you never re= ally know whether your elation comes from the qualities of the one you lov= e, or if it attributes them to her; whether the light which surrounds her = like a halo comes from you, from her, or from the meeting of your sparks. = Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad pe= ople will find a way around the laws. Begin doing what you want to do now.= We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a= star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Good people do not need la= ws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way aroun= d the laws. Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything = that counts can be counted.The great thing about a computer notebook is th= at no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier.= I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of at= titude. Human history becomes more and more a race between education and c= atastrophe. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who da= red believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. Too = often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to sol= ve. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. A witty s= aying proves nothing. The great thing about television is that if somethin= g important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always ch= ange the channel. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will = teach you to keep your mouth shut. Sometimes our light goes out but is blo= wn into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to th= ose who have rekindled this light. I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my= Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter. I= f a man does his best, what else is there? The only way to get rid of a te= mptation is to yield to it.=20 ------=0_00JB_06M3383ID_03B.188Q28T0-- ------=0IS_03G9172IL_02O.979B37I0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rnuiin.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <475979c4d3c0$2180fea0$871aa2c0@ERWBHAQM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAACQAA/+4AIUFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAQMA EAMCAwYAABNTAAAp0gAAS/H/2wCEABQRERoTGioZGSo1KCEoNTEpKCgpMUE4ODg4OEFERERERERE REREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREREQBFhoaIh0iKRoaKTkpIik5RDktLTlEREREOERE RERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERERP/CABEIAfQBTQMBIgACEQEDEQH/ xADOAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAECBQAGBwEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFEAACAgIC AgICAgMBAAMBAAABAgADEQQhEhAFMRMgFEEiMiMVBjBCMyURAAEDAgMECAMGBQQCAAcAAAEAEQIh AzFBEhBRYSIgcYGRoTITBPCxUjDB0UJiI+HxcoIUkqKyM0AFwtJzgzREFRIAAgECBAQEAwcFAQAA AAAAAREAIQIQMUESIDBRYfBxgSJAoTJQsdHxUgMTkcHhQmLi/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAAADyvE6b08n1 fcWPlrevBR5cfr/K6Xq31+5tfKI/QkLw8xpa0xeSDbdl+eNqlLxaW0ttUsP1yuOGV5/6Fnb4+Ra9 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by churchwomen-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:08:28 +0200 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:13:28 -0600 Message-Id: <68RP87FE-0T24-11D7-A3B5-0050E4C05556@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> From: "Erin Bowen" To: Subject: Perhaps we can aid you. X-Sender: euxwmvmqjx@go2.pl X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 How have you been? I have very exciting news! We FINALLY were able to save an extra $450 a month We refinanced our mortgage with a 3.75% lower rate, and closing was fast! The application was free and we got several low rate quotes within days CIick on this link and check it out! http://www.mnm1.com/ Hope you do good with money over the coming year http://www.mnm1.com/gone.asp for NOMORE! From bzpynxvzkzuwag@go2.pl Sun Feb 20 07:15:36 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA27537; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:15:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [221.163.132.18] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2qLy-0003dp-St; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:38:28 -0500 Received: from gale.softhome.net (HELO soft.net) (213.250.150.182) by pathos-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:07:34 +0200 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:12:34 -0500 Message-Id: <68UR87FE-0L24-11D7-A3B5-0050E4C05556@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> From: "Alexandria Link" To: Subject: Little action required. X-Sender: bzpynxvzkzuwag@go2.pl X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 How have you been? I have very exciting news! We FINALLY were able to save an extra $450 a month We refinanced our mortgage with a 3.75% lower rate, and closing was fast! The application was free and we got several low rate quotes within days CIick on this link and check it out! http://www.mnm1.com/ Hope you do good with money over the coming year http://www.mnm1.com/gone.asp for NOMORE! From Reid.Ayers@flashmail.com Sun Feb 20 11:37:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17554; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D2uRt-0002OL-86; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:00:50 -0500 Received: from d53-64-168-209.nap.wideopenwest.com ([64.53.209.168]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D2u5i-0007xr-3S; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:37:54 -0500 Received: from chemic.unknown (HELO dlollingws) (172.118.142.84) by softdnserror with SMTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:30:44 +0500 Message-Id: <845304271814.4214237@oscsunb.osc.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:31:44 +0600 From: "Carey Ragland" To: cfrg-archive@ietf.org Cc: cfrg-request@ietf.org, chair@ietf.org, diffserv-interest-admin@ietf.org, dinaras@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, entmib-request@ietf.org, geopriv-admin@ietf.org, idr@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, ietf-announce-request@ietf.org Subject: cfrg-archive@ietf.org Your Application Confirmation Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:37:44 -0500 X-BeenThere: Reid.Ayers@flashmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----------A43937216560600" X-Spam-Score: 8.8 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 4a4195ffb11c7b0baf82f77b2a730aa9 X-message-flag: Authentic Sender, Hash: KVRVGGIJ This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------A43937216560600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------A33599338966209" ------------A33599338966209 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dukehexameter .calfskin eros strychnine .deprivation addison dukehexameter .calfskin eros strychnine .deprivation addison ------------A33599338966209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit galway

 
 
 
 
 
 
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(EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D287C20433; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:44:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F143020433 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:43:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD7A2041F for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:43:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A1589848; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:43:38 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4218F61C.4080600@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florent Bersani Cc: "eap@frascone.com" Subject: Re: [eap] Issue: exagerate claim in appendix C & B of eap-keying about EAP-TLS References: <4163B93C.1090004@rd.francetelecom.fr> In-Reply-To: <4163B93C.1090004@rd.francetelecom.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:42:04 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Florent Bersani wrote: > Appendix C claims that EAP-TLS RFC 2716 is very explicit on its key > derivation: > > "As described in [RFC2716], the formula for the derivation of the MSK, > EMSK and IV from the MK is as follows: > > MSK = TLS-PRF-64(MK, "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random) > EMSK = second 64 octets of: > TLS-PRF-128(MK, "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random) > IV = TLS-PRF-64("", "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random)" > > How, I find section 3.5 of RFC 2716 less straight-forward. In > particular, there is no occurrence in RFC 2716 of MSK nor any of EMSK Yes. > Requested change > > Either write an update of RFC 2716 that makes things more precise on its > key derivation part > Or make things more honest in eap-keying by saying sth like: > > "The key derivation scheme specified in RFC 2716 that was specified > prior to the introduction of the terminology MSK and EMSK MUST be > interpreted as follows: > MSK = TLS-PRF-64(MK, "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random) > EMSK = second 64 octets of: > TLS-PRF-128(MK, "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random) > IV = TLS-PRF-64("", "client EAP encryption", > client.random || server.random)" This would work for me. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 15:51:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09553 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808A920433; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA12E20443; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F9520443 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287B920433 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:50:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E2589848; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:50:55 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4218F7D2.3010205@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Florent Bersani Cc: "eap@frascone.com" Subject: Re: [eap] Issue: exagerate claim in appendix C & B of eap-keying about EAP-TLS References: <4163B93C.1090004@rd.francetelecom.fr> <4218F61C.4080600@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <4218F61C.4080600@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:49:22 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops, responded to an old e-mail. Nevertheless, it does not seem to appear in the history of issues in the issue file nor do I see a fix in the latest keying draft. So maybe we forgot this one, or I'm missing something obvious why it isn't an issue... --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 15:52:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09687 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D71620433; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:52:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507FA2044E; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:52:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075D62044E for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD2A20433 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B47B89848; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:51:51 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4218F809.4060406@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adrangi, Farid" Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:50:17 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Works for me. Adrangi, Farid wrote: > Actually, I would revise my proposal slightly, as below > > " > The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown > realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > identity hint. > > If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing > an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. > > When an Identity hint is sent by a AAA proxy, the AAA proxy MUST be > able to determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it > to the EAP peer. For example, when RADIUS is used, State(24) > attribute > can be used to achieve this. > " > > BR, > Farid > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] >>On Behalf Of Adrangi, Farid >>Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:24 PM >>To: Bernard Aboba; eap@frascone.com >>Subject: RE: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking >> >> >>Hi Bernard, >> >>Good catch! Thanks! We explain this in the appendix -- but >>now since we >>changed the language in section 2 we need to mention this in the >>normative part. We can revise the text as below >> >>" >> The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the >> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent >> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this >> specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this >> specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown >> realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an >> identity hint. >> >> When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy, a RADIUS >> State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS proxy >> determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the >> EAP peer. >> >> If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity >>containing >> an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity >> containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond >> immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an >> EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. >>" >> >>The second paragraph above will be removed from the appendix. >> Will this >>work for you? >> >>BR, >>Farid >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] >>>On Behalf Of Bernard Aboba >>>Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:59 AM >>>To: eap@frascone.com >>>Subject: [eap] Issue 290: State Tracking >>> >>> >>>Issue 290: State Tracking >>>Submitter name: Bernard Aboba >>>Submitter email address: aboba@internaut.com >>>Date first submitted: 2/18/2005 >>>Reference: >>>Document: IDSEL-08 >>>Comment type: T >>>Priority: S >>>Section: 2 >>>Rationale/Explanation of issue >>> >>>There are paragraphs in the latest version of the draft which >>>change the >>>behavior of AAA proxies: >>> >>>" The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the >> >>peer in the >> >>> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent >>> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this >>> specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this >>> specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown >>> realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an >>> identity hint. >>> >>> If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity >>>containing >>> an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity >>> containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond >>> immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an >>> EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure." >>> >>>I think the document needs to suggest how the above changes can be >>>implemented without requiring RADIUS proxies to keep state. >>>For example, >>>use of the State attribute might be mentioned. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>eap mailing list >>>eap@frascone.com >>>http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>eap mailing list >>eap@frascone.com >>http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >> > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 16:17:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11586 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:17:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDE8203A3; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:17:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188692041B; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:17:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8322041B for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:16:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FFFF203A3 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302CD89848; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:16:56 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4218FDEA.80600@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Proposed Resolution of Issue 254: Key Lifetime Issues References: <4215DFC4.8030600@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:15:22 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >>Should we talk about the potential use of the EAP channel (with >>things like draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth) to deliver >>lifetime information? I'm not proposing that we need to do that -- >>in fact I'm quite happy with the "system default" approach -- but >>sounds like it is something might be mentioned. > > Yes, I think we should discuss this. Can you file an issue on that > subject? Yes. Here goes: Description of issue Submitter name: Jari Arkko Submitter email address: jari.arkko@piuha.net Date first submitted: Feb 20, 2004 Reference: - Document: Keying Framework Comment type: T Priority: 1 - Should fix Section: 4.4 and 4.5 Rationale/Explanation of issue: > 4.5. Key cache synchronization > > Issues arise when attempting to synchronize the key cache on the peer > and authenticator. Lifetime negotiation alone cannot guarantee key > cache synchronization. > > One problem is that the AAA protocol cannot guarantee synchronization > of key lifetimes between the peer and authenticator. Where the > Secure Association Protocol is not run immediately after EAP > authentication, the exported and calculated key lifetimes will not be > known by the peer during the hiatus. Where EAP pre-authentication > occurs, this can leave the peer uncertain whether a subsequent > attempt to use the exported keys will prove successful. > > However, even where the Secure Association Protocol is run > immediately after EAP, it is still possible for the authenticator to > reclaim resources if the created key state is not immediately > utilized. > > The lower layer may utilize Discovery mechanisms to assist in this. > For example, the authenticator manages the AAA-Key cache by deleting > the oldest AAA-Key first (LIFO), the relative creation time of the > last AAA-Key to be deleted could be advertised with the Discovery > phase, enabling the peer to determine whether a given AAA-Key had > been expired from the authenticator key cache prematurely. Should we talk about the potential use of the EAP channel (with things like draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth) to deliver lifetime information? I'm not proposing that we need to do that -- in fact I'm quite happy with the "system default" approach -- but sounds like it is something might be mentioned. Requested change: Add text to the end of Section 4.4: [d] Method specific negotiation within EAP. While EAP itself does not support lifetime negotiation, it would be possible to specify methods that do. However, systems that rely on such negotiation for exported keys would only function with these methods. As a result, it is not recommended to use this approach as the sole way to determine key lifetimes. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 16:57:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14866 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:57:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB9C1FE0F; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:57:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9762220397; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:57:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A4020397 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:56:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (fmr18.intel.com [134.134.136.17]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC531FE0F for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:56:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1KLuiBg011399; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:56:44 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1KLue0L021967; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:56:40 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005022013563906858 ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:56:39 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:56:39 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Thread-Index: AcUWKB/D3Fp+Xuy5Ri6iMayo0WKsgABbMkVg From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: "Adrangi, Farid" , "Jari Arkko" , , , "Eugene Chang" , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2005 21:56:39.0886 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E63F6E0:01C51797] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:56:39 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A quick update! I just submitted -09 version to address the recent issue 290 (submitted by Bernard). You can find the draft here: http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adrangi-eap-net work-discovery-09.txt A summary of the changes: - The following paragraph was added to section 2, after the third paragraph " When an Identity hint is sent by a AAA proxy/server, the AAA proxy/server MUST be able to determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the EAP peer. When RADIUS is used, State(24) attribute can be used to achieve this. " - The following paragraph was removed from the appendix " When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy/server, a RADIUS State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS proxy/server determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the EAP peer. " BR, Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrangi, Farid=20 > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:10 PM > To: Jari Arkko; 'gwz@cisco.com'; 'jsalowey@cisco.com'; Eugene=20 > Chang; 'hartmans-ietf@mit.edu' > Cc: eap@frascone.com; 'iesg@ietf.org' > Subject: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Jari, Glen, Joe, Eugene, Sam, all >=20 > Thank you for reviewing the draft and providing your=20 > feedback/comments. We have revised the draft to provide=20 > resolution to issues that you raised. I just submitted=20 > version -08, so it does not yet appear on I-D repository yet.=20 > In the mean time, you can access the draft here: =20 > http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adran > gi-eap-network-discovery-08.txt >=20 > Special thanks to Jari for proposing text to address some of=20 > the issues. A summary of changes can be found below. >=20 > BR, > Farid >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > *** Abstract >=20 > - the following paragraph was added >=20 > " > The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for > advertising connectivity of access network to a limited number of > roaming partners that find such advertisement of their presence > useful. > " >=20 > *** Section 1 >=20 > " > Exactly how the identity hint information is used by the=20 > peer depends > largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, and=20 > is outside > the scope of this document. >=20 > In many roaming situations, an access network can have several > roaming relationships, either with several home networks, or with > mediating networks such as roaming consortiums and=20 > brokers, or both. >=20 > One possible application for this mechanism is to help in selecting > what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be applied to allow > proper routing of AAA messages to the home AAA server. If=20 > there are > several possible mediating networks, the peer can choose=20 > which one to > use. However, exactly how the selection is made is beyond=20 > the scope > of this document. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed=20 > discussion > about this problem space. > " >=20 > Replaced/modified with >=20 > " > One possible application for this mechanism is to help an=20 > EAP peer in > selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be=20 > applied to > allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home AAA server. If > there are several possible mediating networks, the peer can choose > which one to use. >=20 > Exactly how the selection is made by the peer depends=20 > largely on the > peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the scope of > this document. For example, the peer could decide to use another > identity it has, decide to switch to another access network, or > attempt to reformat its NAI [rfc2486bis] to assist in proper AAA > routing. >=20 > This document is also related to the general network discovery and > selection problem. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed=20 > discussion > about this problem space. > " >=20 > *** A new Section 1.1 (Applicability) was added >=20 > " > 1.1 Applicability >=20 > Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally=20 > sufficient, and > the identity hints are typically useful only when there's too much > ambiquity to try all client identities and access network > combinations efficiently, or when the scale of the roaming > associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all access > networks to all home networks. This can happen, for instance, when > access networks have contracts with multiple roaming=20 > consortiums but > do not have a full list of home networks reachable through them. >=20 > In the situations mentioned above, a limited number of=20 > identity hints > can be provided by the mechanism described in this=20 > document. Even in > this case, for security reasons it is required that the=20 > networks that > are listed in these hints consent to such advertisements. >=20 > The immediate application of the proposed mechanism is in 3GPP > systems inteworking with WLANs [TS.23.234] and [TS.24.234]. The > roaming partner information provided via this mechanism is=20 > limited by > the link layer MTU size. For example, assuming an average of 20 > octets per roaming partner / home network information and the link > layer MTU size of 1096, the approximate number of roaming partners > that can be advertised would be 50. The scalability limitation > imposed by the link layer MTU size should be taken into=20 > consideration > when deploying this solution. > " >=20 >=20 > *** Section 2 >=20 > " > The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > specification), then if the EAP server receives an > EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers > implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an > EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. >=20 > If after the EAP server sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > containing an unacceptable NAI Realm, then the EAP server=20 > MAY respond > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. > " >=20 > Was replaced with=20 >=20 >=20 > " > The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the > initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent > initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this > specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown > realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an > identity hint. >=20 > If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity=20 > containing > an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity > containing an unknown realm, then the local AAA proxy MAY respond > immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first send an > EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. >=20 > " >=20 > *** Section 4 (Security) >=20 > - The following paragraph was added >=20 > " > Any information revealed either from the network or client sides > before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security risk. > For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a poor > authentication method can make it easier for attackers to discover > that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent of the > network being advertised in the hints is required before such hints > can be sent. > " >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 19:49:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA29014 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:49:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26E81FE0F; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012982042E; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:49:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858692042E for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D491FE0F for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2005 16:59:29 -0800 Received: from gwzw2k01 (tky-vpn-client-230-120.cisco.com [10.70.230.120]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1L0mMuC014514; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:48:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200502210048.j1L0mMuC014514@sj-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Adrangi, Farid'" Cc: , , "'Jari Arkko'" , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUWKB/D3Fp+Xuy5Ri6iMayo0WKsgABbMkVgAAU8d2A= X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:48:22 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrangi, Farid supposedly scribbled: > Hi all, > A quick update! I just submitted -09 version to address the recent > issue 290 (submitted by Bernard). You can find the draft here: > http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adrangi-eap -network-discovery-09.txt > A couple of quick comments: the grammar & syntax needs some serious work. The second paragraph of the introduction says "The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for advertising connectivity of access network to a limited number of roaming partners that find such advertisement of their presence useful.", which is barely parseable to me. I _think_ that it means "The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for advertising the connectivity of an access network to a limited number of roaming partners that find such advertisement useful." Although the authors attempt to punt on the question of client network (excuse me, identity) selection, nevertheless they clearly have some model of client participation in mind. For example, if "access networks have contracts with multiple roaming consortiums but do not have a full list of home networks reachable through them" (section 1.1, first paragraph, second sentence) then it would appear that the client must carry with it a list of routes to its home network through all the roaming consortia of which it is aware. It would be helpful if the model of client behavior assumed was explained. The Appendix (why is it "Appendix A" if there is only one?) is marked as "Informative". Assuming that this is intended to be an Informational RFC (I can't imagine it as Standards Track unless our standards have seriously eroded), this marking is redundant. > A summary of the changes: > > - The following paragraph was added to section 2, after the third > paragraph > > " > When an Identity hint is sent by a AAA proxy/server, the AAA > proxy/server MUST be able to determine if an identity hint had > previously been sent by it to the EAP peer. When RADIUS is used, > State(24) attribute can be used to achieve this. > " > > - The following paragraph was removed from the appendix > > " > When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy/server, a RADIUS > State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS proxy/server > determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to the > EAP peer. > " > > BR, > Farid > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Adrangi, Farid >> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:10 PM >> To: Jari Arkko; 'gwz@cisco.com'; 'jsalowey@cisco.com'; Eugene Chang; >> 'hartmans-ietf@mit.edu' Cc: eap@frascone.com; 'iesg@ietf.org' >> Subject: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery >> >> >> >> Hi Jari, Glen, Joe, Eugene, Sam, all >> >> Thank you for reviewing the draft and providing your >> feedback/comments. We have revised the draft to provide resolution >> to issues that you raised. I just submitted version -08, so it does >> not yet appear on I-D repository yet. >> In the mean time, you can access the draft here: >> http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adran >> gi-eap-network-discovery-08.txt >> >> Special thanks to Jari for proposing text to address some of the >> issues. A summary of changes can be found below. >> >> BR, >> Farid >> >> >> >> >> *** Abstract >> >> - the following paragraph was added >> >> " >> The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended for >> advertising connectivity of access network to a limited number of >> roaming partners that find such advertisement of their presence >> useful. " >> >> *** Section 1 >> >> " >> Exactly how the identity hint information is used by the peer >> depends largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, and >> is outside the scope of this document. >> >> In many roaming situations, an access network can have several >> roaming relationships, either with several home networks, or with >> mediating networks such as roaming consortiums and brokers, or >> both. >> >> One possible application for this mechanism is to help in >> selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be >> applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home AAA >> server. If there are several possible mediating networks, the >> peer can choose which one to use. However, exactly how the >> selection is made is beyond the scope of this document. See >> [netsel-problem] for more detailed discussion about this problem >> space. " >> >> Replaced/modified with >> >> " >> One possible application for this mechanism is to help an EAP >> peer in selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must >> be applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home >> AAA server. If there are several possible mediating networks, >> the peer can choose which one to use. >> >> Exactly how the selection is made by the peer depends largely on >> the peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the >> scope of this document. For example, the peer could decide to >> use another identity it has, decide to switch to another access >> network, or attempt to reformat its NAI [rfc2486bis] to assist in >> proper AAA routing. >> >> This document is also related to the general network discovery and >> selection problem. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed >> discussion about this problem space. >> " >> >> *** A new Section 1.1 (Applicability) was added >> >> " >> 1.1 Applicability >> >> Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally sufficient, >> and the identity hints are typically useful only when there's too >> much ambiquity to try all client identities and access network >> combinations efficiently, or when the scale of the roaming >> associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all access >> networks to all home networks. This can happen, for instance, >> when access networks have contracts with multiple roaming >> consortiums but do not have a full list of home networks >> reachable through them. >> >> In the situations mentioned above, a limited number of identity >> hints can be provided by the mechanism described in this >> document. Even in this case, for security reasons it is required >> that the networks that are listed in these hints consent to such >> advertisements. >> >> The immediate application of the proposed mechanism is in 3GPP >> systems inteworking with WLANs [TS.23.234] and [TS.24.234]. The >> roaming partner information provided via this mechanism is >> limited by the link layer MTU size. For example, assuming an >> average of 20 octets per roaming partner / home network >> information and the link layer MTU size of 1096, the approximate >> number of roaming partners that can be advertised would be 50. >> The scalability limitation imposed by the link layer MTU size >> should be taken into consideration when deploying this solution. >> " >> >> >> *** Section 2 >> >> " >> The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the >> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent >> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this >> specification), then if the EAP server receives an >> EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP servers >> implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an >> EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. >> >> If after the EAP server sends an EAP-Request/Identity containing >> an identity hint, the peer responds with an EAP-Response/Identity >> containing an unacceptable NAI Realm, then the EAP server MAY >> respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY first >> send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. " >> >> Was replaced with >> >> >> " >> The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in the >> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not sent >> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support this >> specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this >> specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an unknown >> realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing an >> identity hint. >> >> If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity >> containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an >> EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the local >> AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or >> it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for >> the failure. >> >> " >> >> *** Section 4 (Security) >> >> - The following paragraph was added >> >> " >> Any information revealed either from the network or client sides >> before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security risk. >> For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a poor >> authentication method can make it easier for attackers to discover >> that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent of >> the network being advertised in the hints is required before such >> hints can be sent. " Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 20:13:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA00903 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B9F1FE0F; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40A82044C; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:13:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4BC2044C for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539C31FE0F for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:12:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2005 18:26:07 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="3.90,101,1107734400"; d="scan'208"; a="227230092:sNHT18390676" Received: from gwzw2k01 (tky-vpn-client-230-120.cisco.com [10.70.230.120]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j1L1C0uC022284; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:12:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200502210112.j1L1C0uC022284@sj-core-1.cisco.com> Reply-To: From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "'Jari Arkko'" Cc: , , , "'Adrangi, Farid'" , Subject: RE: [eap] RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <200502210048.j1L0mMuC014514@sj-core-1.cisco.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcUWKB/D3Fp+Xuy5Ri6iMayo0WKsgABbMkVgAAU8d2AAAestwA== X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:12:02 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW, draft-arkko-roamops-rfc2486bis-02.txt (a normative reference) appears to have expired. Perhaps it could be refreshed before the deadline tomorrow? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Feb 20 22:26:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA11754 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53A92042E; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A450B204E8; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:26:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121A7204E8 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF3A2042E for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j1L3PP5H008679; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 03:25:25 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j1L3PMZN032322; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 03:25:22 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005022019252116837 ; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:25:21 -0800 Received: from orsmsx408.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.52]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:25:22 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Thread-Index: AcUWKB/D3Fp+Xuy5Ri6iMayo0WKsgABbMkVgAAU8d2AABadssA== From: "Adrangi, Farid" To: Cc: , , "Jari Arkko" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2005 03:25:22.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9F85EC0:01C517C4] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:25:21 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glen, Thanks for your review. Please see my comments in line. - Farid > -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Zorn (gwz) [mailto:gwz@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 4:48 PM > To: Adrangi, Farid > Cc: eap@frascone.com; iesg@ietf.org; 'Jari Arkko';=20 > hartmans-ietf@mit.edu > Subject: RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery >=20 >=20 > Adrangi, Farid supposedly > scribbled: >=20 > > Hi all, > > A quick update! I just submitted -09 version to address the > recent > > issue 290 (submitted by Bernard). You can find the draft here: > > > http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adrangi-eap > -network-discovery-09.txt > >=20 >=20 > A couple of quick comments: the grammar & syntax needs some serious > work. =20 >=20 > The second paragraph of the introduction says "The mechanism defined > in this document is primarily intended for advertising connectivity > of access network to a limited number of roaming partners that find > such advertisement of their presence useful.", which is barely > parseable to me. I _think_ that it means "The mechanism defined in > this document is primarily intended for advertising the connectivity > of an access network to a limited number of roaming partners that > find such advertisement useful." =20 >=20 Your suggested text is more clear - will fix it as per your recommendation. Are there any other paragraphs that need editoral fixing? If so, can you point us to those paragraphs.=20 > Although the authors attempt to punt on the question of client > network (excuse me, identity) selection, nevertheless they clearly > have some model of client participation in mind. For example, if > "access networks have contracts with multiple roaming consortiums > but do not have a full list of home networks reachable through them" > (section 1.1, first paragraph, second sentence) then it would appear > that the client must carry with it a list of routes to its home > network through all the roaming consortia of which it is aware. It > would be helpful if the model of client behavior assumed was > explained. >=20 I agree with you on the point that the client needs to be preprovisioned with his/her home network's roaming partner information. However, the authors did not want to suggest any specific client behavior model in this document. TS.24.234 (Release 6) specifies two client behavior models: manual and automatic selection. In automatic selection, the client is preprovioned with network information by the home network to help the client in roaming partner selection. If the list or IESG want us to elaborate on some client behavior models, well I guess we can do it. But, in the meant time, TS.24.234 is listed as a reference in the document. > The Appendix (why is it "Appendix A" if there is only one?) is > marked as "Informative". Assuming that this is intended to be an > Informational RFC (I can't imagine it as Standards Track unless our > standards have seriously eroded), this marking is redundant. Ok. I will remove "informative" and replace "Appendix A" with "Appendix". >=20 > > A summary of the changes: > >=20 > > - The following paragraph was added to section 2, after the third > > paragraph=20 > >=20 > > " > > When an Identity hint is sent by a AAA proxy/server, the AAA > > proxy/server MUST be able to determine if an identity hint had > > previously been sent by it to the EAP peer. When RADIUS is > used, > > State(24) attribute can be used to achieve this. > > " > >=20 > > - The following paragraph was removed from the appendix > >=20 > > " > > When an Identity hint is sent by a RADIUS proxy/server, a > RADIUS > > State (24) attribute can be used to help the RADIUS > proxy/server > > determine if an identity hint had previously been sent by it to > the > > EAP peer. > > " > >=20 > > BR, > > Farid > >=20 > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Adrangi, Farid > >> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:10 PM > >> To: Jari Arkko; 'gwz@cisco.com'; 'jsalowey@cisco.com'; Eugene > Chang; > >> 'hartmans-ietf@mit.edu' Cc: eap@frascone.com; 'iesg@ietf.org' > >> Subject: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Hi Jari, Glen, Joe, Eugene, Sam, all > >>=20 > >> Thank you for reviewing the draft and providing your > >> feedback/comments. We have revised the draft to provide > resolution > >> to issues that you raised. I just submitted version -08, so it > does > >> not yet appear on I-D repository yet. > >> In the mean time, you can access the draft here: > >> http://mng.ctgisp.com/IETF/EAP/Network%20Selection/draft-adran > >> gi-eap-network-discovery-08.txt > >>=20 > >> Special thanks to Jari for proposing text to address some of the > >> issues. A summary of changes can be found below. > >>=20 > >> BR, > >> Farid > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> *** Abstract > >>=20 > >> - the following paragraph was added > >>=20 > >> " > >> The mechanism defined in this document is primarily intended > for > >> advertising connectivity of access network to a limited number > of > >> roaming partners that find such advertisement of their > presence =20 > >> useful. " > >>=20 > >> *** Section 1 > >>=20 > >> " > >> Exactly how the identity hint information is used by the peer > >> depends largely on the peer's local policy and configuration, > and > >> is outside the scope of this document. > >>=20 > >> In many roaming situations, an access network can have several > >> roaming relationships, either with several home networks, or > with > >> mediating networks such as roaming consortiums and brokers, or > >> both.=20 > >>=20 > >> One possible application for this mechanism is to help in > >> selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] must be > >> applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home > AAA > >> server. If there are several possible mediating networks, the > >> peer can choose which one to use. However, exactly how the > >> selection is made is beyond the scope of this document. See > >> [netsel-problem] for more detailed discussion about this > problem > >> space. " > >>=20 > >> Replaced/modified with > >>=20 > >> " > >> One possible application for this mechanism is to help an EAP > >> peer in selecting what kind of NAI decoration [rfc2486bis] > must > >> be applied to allow proper routing of AAA messages to the home > >> AAA server. If there are several possible mediating networks, > >> the peer can choose which one to use.=20 > >>=20 > >> Exactly how the selection is made by the peer depends largely > on > >> the peer's local policy and configuration, and is outside the > >> scope of this document. For example, the peer could decide to > >> use another identity it has, decide to switch to another > access > >> network, or attempt to reformat its NAI [rfc2486bis] to assist > in > >> proper AAA routing.=20 > >>=20 > >> This document is also related to the general network discovery > and > >> selection problem. See [netsel-problem] for more detailed > >> discussion about this problem space. > >> " > >>=20 > >> *** A new Section 1.1 (Applicability) was added > >>=20 > >> " > >> 1.1 Applicability > >>=20 > >> Basic roaming and AAA routing mechanisms are normally > sufficient, > >> and the identity hints are typically useful only when there's > too > >> much ambiquity to try all client identities and access network > >> combinations efficiently, or when the scale of the roaming > >> associations precludes full automatic connectivity from all > access > >> networks to all home networks. This can happen, for instance, > >> when access networks have contracts with multiple roaming > >> consortiums but do not have a full list of home networks > >> reachable through them.=20 > >>=20 > >> In the situations mentioned above, a limited number of > identity > >> hints can be provided by the mechanism described in this > >> document. Even in this case, for security reasons it is > required > >> that the networks that are listed in these hints consent to > such > >> advertisements.=20 > >>=20 > >> The immediate application of the proposed mechanism is in 3GPP > >> systems inteworking with WLANs [TS.23.234] and [TS.24.234]. > The > >> roaming partner information provided via this mechanism is > >> limited by the link layer MTU size. For example, assuming an > >> average of 20 octets per roaming partner / home network > >> information and the link layer MTU size of 1096, the > approximate > >> number of roaming partners that can be advertised would be 50. >=20 > >> The scalability limitation imposed by the link layer MTU size > >> should be taken into consideration when deploying this > solution. > >> " > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> *** Section 2 > >>=20 > >> " > >> The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in > the > >> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not > sent > >> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support > this > >> specification), then if the EAP server receives an > >> EAP-Response/Identity with an unacceptable NAI Realm, EAP > servers > >> implementing this specification SHOULD reply with an > >> EAP-Request/Identity containing an identity hint. > >>=20 > >> If after the EAP server sends an EAP-Request/Identity > containing > >> an identity hint, the peer responds with an > EAP-Response/Identity > >> containing an unacceptable NAI Realm, then the EAP server MAY > >> respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, or it MAY > first > >> send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for the failure. > " > >>=20 > >> Was replaced with > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> " > >> The EAP authenticator MAY send an identity hint to the peer in > the > >> initial EAP-Request/Identity. If the identity hint is not > sent > >> initially (such as when the authenticator does not support > this > >> specification), then if the local AAA proxy implementing this > >> specification receives an EAP-Response/Identity with an > unknown > >> realm, it SHOULD reply with an EAP-Request/Identity containing > an > >> identity hint.=20 > >>=20 > >> If after the local AAA proxy sends an EAP-Request/Identity > >> containing an identity hint, the peer responds with an > >> EAP-Response/Identity containing an unknown realm, then the > local > >> AAA proxy MAY respond immediately with an EAP Failure packet, > or > >> it MAY first send an EAP-Notification providing the reason for > >> the failure.=20 > >>=20 > >> " > >>=20 > >> *** Section 4 (Security) > >>=20 > >> - The following paragraph was added > >>=20 > >> " > >> Any information revealed either from the network or client > sides > >> before authentication has occurred can be seen as a security > risk. > >> For instance, revealing the existence of network that uses a > poor > >> authentication method can make it easier for attackers to > discover > >> that such network can be accessed. As a result, the consent > of > >> the network being advertised in the hints is required before > such > >> hints can be sent. " >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > ~gwz >=20 > Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by > simply > listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Hashwani@issihk.net Sun Feb 20 22:55:58 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14356; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 22:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.214.15.199] (helo=ucs.com.tw) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D351W-0002iQ-La; Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:18:57 -0500 From: "Unrealero Miguelo" To: "Taylor Michelle" Subject: Re[7]: question with her tabs Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 21:59:14 +0200 Message-ID: <1dd401c517c9$0e740357$c70fd6d4@ucs.com.tw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4567_89ABCDEF.01234567" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4942.400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4942.400 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 6379955759c38e2371a49573a0932fc7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4567_89ABCDEF.01234567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. Expe ce thr es lon gas rien ee tim ger or ms Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. Expe ce thr es lon gas rien ee tim ger or ms Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. Expe ce thr es lon gas rien ee tim ger or ms Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa Ph acy is Ne st The est y of arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. 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Expe ce thr es lon gas rien ee tim ger or ms Wor de shi g wit hou ld Wi ppin hin 24 rs SP -M UR The we and Saf Wa ------=_NextPart_000_4567_89ABCDEF.01234567-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 21 00:08:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA20986 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:08:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FE5204F3; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:08:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FBB204F4; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:08:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3597204F4 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:07:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09CD204F3 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:07:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CDE489848; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:07:44 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <42196C41.70307@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwz@cisco.com Cc: eap@frascone.com, iesg@ietf.org, hartmans-ietf@mit.edu, "'Adrangi, Farid'" Subject: Re: [eap] RE: -08 version of EAP-based network discovery References: <200502210112.j1L1C0uC022284@sj-core-1.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <200502210112.j1L1C0uC022284@sj-core-1.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:06:09 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen Zorn (gwz) wrote: > BTW, draft-arkko-roamops-rfc2486bis-02.txt (a normative reference) > appears to have expired. Perhaps it could be refreshed before the > deadline tomorrow? Its expired because the current draft name is draft-ietf-radext-rfc2486bis-03.txt. 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This draft is a work item of the Extensible Authentication Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) Key Management Framework Author(s) : B. Aboba, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt Pages : 74 Date : 2005-2-21 The Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP), defined in [RFC3748], enables extensible network access authentication. This document provides a framework for the generation, transport and usage of keying material generated by EAP authentication algorithms, known as 'methods'. It also specifies the EAP key hierarchy. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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------=_NextPart_001_0001_0D538750.2A506A77-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_16563927.5720CD03-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Feb 24 10:30:13 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02469 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004ED204AC; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477852049C; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:30:05 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7530E20495 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from swip.net (mailfe06.swip.net [212.247.154.161]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79AE20492 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:29:48 -0500 (EST) X-T2-Posting-ID: TlrHmwDFCX01iQZd0Fm6v3T8FBlCqve5GwI1mWaefYU= Received: from [83.179.0.56] (HELO DELL.tele2.fr) by mailfe06.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.9) with ESMTP id 301686400 for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:29:40 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050224162030.02b804d0@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: eu968071@pop.tele2.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_708266743==.ALT" X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-01.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:29:38 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) --=====================_708266743==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Everybody, A new version of the draft "EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC) " is available at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-01.txt Regards Pascal Urien Authors: P.Urien, W.Habraken, D. Flattin, H. Ganem Tittle: "EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC) " Abstract: The EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC) defines an EAP Method and Multiplexing model for the support of Smart Card based authentication methods. EAP-SC provides a uniform framework for interfacing with Smart Cards within the EAP [RFC3748] context. EAP- SC provides for encapsulation of other EAP methods (such as [EAP- TLS], [EAP-SIM] and [EAP-AKA]). --=====================_708266743==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Everybody,

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is available at
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Authors: P.Urien, W.Habraken, D. Flattin, H. Ganem
Tittle: "EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC) "
Abstract:
The EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC) defines an EAP Method and
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  SC provides for encapsulation of other EAP methods (such as [EAP-
 TLS], [EAP-SIM] and [EAP-AKA]).
--=====================_708266743==.ALT-- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From service@paypal.com Thu Feb 24 17:17:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28830 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4RIM-0006Co-Bq for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:17:18 -0500 Received: from [216.117.150.44] (helo=216.117.150.44) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D4RIK-0006DN-Ov for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:17:16 -0500 Received: from 219.218.112.0 by ; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:11:22 +0600 Message-ID: From: "PayPal" Reply-To: "PayPal" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: PayPal Flagged Account Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:16:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--650313123324140" X-Spam-Score: 10.1 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f ----650313123324140 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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----650313123324140-- From zvzxoq@pacbell.net Thu Feb 24 17:57:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02738; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:57:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502242257.RAA02738@ietf.org> Received: from [220.84.208.67] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D4RvP-000772-Qr; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:57:42 -0500 Received: from ZFBTU-LW80 (220.84.208.67) by 220.84.208.67; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:57:28 -0800 From: "St. Wendell Clinic" To: bmwg-admin@ietf.org, bridge-mib@ietf.org, disman@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org, geopriv@ietf.org, gsmp-web-archive@ietf.org, hubmib@ietf.org, hubmib-admin@ietf.org Subject: Better than Viagra Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:57:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=0HQ_06L5153VS_04X.180L66X0" X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: LCVKB Mailer v3.4.9 X-Spam-Score: 8.4 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d1330b60dd48fa5cb1958a0aa669d18b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=0HQ_06L5153VS_04X.180L66X0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=0_00QM_05W6479BH_08F.592X42N0" ------=0_00QM_05W6479BH_08F.592X42N0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ypmyobmesa528g9o5opyndron.clfmbeiie.com/ When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. In the end, everything is a gag. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. Love takes up where knowledge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. Who so loves believes the impossible. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time reading it. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows. All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough? Basically, I no longer work for anything but t he sensation I have while working. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Give me a museum and I'll fill it. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. There are two ways of constructing a software design; one way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult. Memory is a child walking along a seashore. You never can tell what small pebble it will pick up and store away among its treasured things. The artist is nothing without the gift, but the gift is nothing without work. I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. Dancing is silent poetry. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Dancing is silent poetry. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher. While we are postponing, life speeds by. Books are the shoes with which we tread the footsteps of great minds. When ideas fail, words come in very handy. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. Make ever ything as simple as possible, but not simpler. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. Too often we give our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. Everything has been figured out, except how to live. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. Dancing is silent poetry. I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating. Compassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right. I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. Of cheerfulness, or a good temper - the more it is spent, the more of it remains. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. Many a man's reputation would not know his character if they met on the street. A kiss makes the heart young again and wipes out the years. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. If you find a path wi th no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. ------=0_00QM_05W6479BH_08F.592X42N0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3D= When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up read= ing. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. When so= lving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Co= mpassion is the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the = most poisonous impulses remain relatively harmless. I do not fear computer= s. I fear the lack of them. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scra= tch where it itches. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace= .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something g= reater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: B= abylon 5.I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.= In the end, everything is a gag. But at my back I always hear Time's wing= ed chariot hurrying near. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly co= nsidered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. Love takes = up where knowledge leaves off. Love is composed of a single soul inhabitin= g two bodies. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. Who so l= oves believes the impossible. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. I'd ra= ther have a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. If everythin= g seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. You can't be a r= eal country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have so= me kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least= you need a beer. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll wast= e no time reading it. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fight= ing back. The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows. Al= l right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do= this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. Drinking provides a beau= tiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- ho= oking up with fat, hairy girls. We all agree that your theory is crazy, bu= t is it crazy enough? Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sen= sation I have while working. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow becau= se it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Give me a = museum and I'll fill it. Opportunity is missed by most people because it i= s dressed in overalls and looks like work. There are two ways of construct= ing a software design; one way is to make it so simple that there are obvi= ously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that= there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult= Memory is a child walking along a seashore. You never can tell what smal= l pebble it will pick up and store away among its treasured things. The ar= tist is nothing without the gift, but the gift is nothing without work. I = find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. I think 'Hail t= o the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Once is happenstance. Twice is coincid= ence. Three times is enemy action. Those who are willing to sacrifice esse= ntial liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. Ar= gue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. The only time you= run out of chances is when you stop taking them. Whether you think that y= ou can, or that you can't, you are usually right. Dancing is silent poetry= Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can cha= nge the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Dancing is sile= nt poetry. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, w= hile bad people will find a way around the laws. When solving problems, di= g at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. All are lunatics, bu= t he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher. While we are po= stponing, life speeds by. Books are the shoes with which we tread the foot= steps of great minds. When ideas fail, words come in very handy. First the= y ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. B= efore I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I h= ave six children and no theories. Make everything as simple as possible, b= ut not simpler. I think 'Hail to the Chief' has a nice ring to it. Those w= ho are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will l= ose both and deserve neither. Too often we give our children answers to re= member rather than problems to solve. The full use of your powers along li= nes of excellence. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so ge= t wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. True friendship c= omes when the silence between two people is comfortable. Too often we give= our children answers to remember rather than problems to solve. Everythin= g has been figured out, except how to live. Solitude, if rightly used, bec= omes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears t= o fraternize with itself. Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze y= ou, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. When you have to ki= ll a man, it costs nothing to be polite. Dancing is silent poetry. I heard= someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. S= hakespeare, but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. It = is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating. Compassion is= the antitoxin of the soul: where there is compassion even the most poison= ous impulses remain relatively harmless. I begin by taking. I shall find s= cholars later to demonstrate my perfect right. I heard someone tried the m= onkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all = they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. Of cheerfulness, or a g= ood temper - the more it is spent, the more of it remains. Talent does wha= t it can; genius does what it must. Many a man's reputation would not know= his character if they met on the street. A kiss makes the heart young aga= in and wipes out the years. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,= then they fight you, then you win. Distance between two hearts is not an = obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. If = you find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. Ther= e are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except= in the form of bread. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?= I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect = right. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. When you have to= kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. It is much more comfortable to= be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. You can widen = your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. You can't wait = for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. No dictator, no inva= der, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is = no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that p= ower, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.=20 ------=0_00QM_05W6479BH_08F.592X42N0-- ------=0HQ_06L5153VS_04X.180L66X0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="hxgwqdkp.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <752657c4d3c0$2180fea0$931aa8c0@VUMIIRVP> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAZABkAAD/7AARRHVja3kAAQAEAAAAKAAA/+4ADkFkb2JlAGTAAAAAAf/b AIQADAgICAkIDAkJDBELCgsRFQ8MDA8VGBMTFRMTGBcSFBQUFBIXFxscHhwbFyQkJyckJDUzMzM1 Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7OwENCwsNDg0QDg4QFA4PDhQUEBEREBQdFBQVFBQdJRoXFxcXGiUgIx4eHiMgKCgl JSgoMjIwMjI7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7/8AAEQgCJgHCAwEiAAIRAQMRAf/EALsAAAEFAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAABAgMEBQYHAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUQAAIBAwMCBAMDCAYFCAcGBwECAwARBCES BTETQVEiBmFxFIGRMqGxwUJSciMVYpKyMzQH0YJzJBbhosJDU7MlNfHSg1RkdBfwk8O0JjZjo5Sk xHUnEQACAgEDAgQEBgEDBAMAAAAAARECITESA0FRYXEiE4GRoTLwscHRQgRSYnIU4aIzc5Ijk//a AAwDAQACEQMRAD8A6bKwos58eCaSSKJplDtC+x/UGRRf95hVjPhj4xGQMzxY8QIZzdiFXqx8TpUO 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<505601c51b0c$a203a283$887091ea@aquaskier.com> From: "Jennifer A. Clark" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWljcm9zb2Z0IE9mZmljZSAyMDAzIC0gdmVyeSBsb3cgcHJpY2U=?= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 07:32:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_8495EC70.0BA150E2" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_8495EC70.0BA150E2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_F05FE52F.44BFB68A" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_F05FE52F.44BFB68A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get access to all the software possible for extremely low prices! We sell software 2-6 times cheaper than retail price. Just a few examples: $79.95 Windows XP Professional (Including: Service Pack 2) $89.95 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional $99.95 Adobe Photoshop 8.0/CS (Including: ImageReady CS) $179.95 Macromedia Studio MX 2004 (Including: Dreamweaver MX + Flash MX + Fireworks MX) $79.95 Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional $59.95 Corel Draw Graphics Suite 11 Special Offers: $89.95 Windows XP Professional + Office XP Professional $149.95 Adobe Photoshop CS + Adobe Illustrator CS + Adobe InDesign CS $129.95 Adobe Photoshop 7 + Adobe Premiere 7 + Adobe Illustrator 10 All main products from Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc. And lots more... For full list of products go: http://www.mxsoft.biz Regards, Jennifer Clark _____________________________________________________ To change your mail details, go here: http://www.mxsoft.biz/uns.htm _____________________________________________________ ------=_NextPart_001_0001_F05FE52F.44BFB68A Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Protect Your Account I= nfo
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Get access to all the software possible for bottom prices!
We sell software 2-6 times cheaper than retail price.

Just a few examples:
$79.95 Windows XP Professional (Including: Service Pack 2)
$89.95 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional
$99.95 Adobe Photoshop 8.0/CS (Including: ImageReady CS)
$179.95 Macromedia Studio MX 2004 (Including: Dreamweaver MX + Flash MX + Fireworks MX)
$79.95 Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional
$59.95 Corel Draw Graphics Suite 11

Special Offers:
$89.95 Windows XP Professional + Office XP Professional
$149.95 Adobe Photoshop CS + Adobe Illustrator CS + Adobe InDesign CS
$129.95 Adobe Photoshop 7 + Adobe Premiere 7 + Adobe Illustrator 10

All main products from Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, Corel, etc.
And many more... Enter here:

http://www.mxsoft.biz

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ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA06755; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:41:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [218.79.175.190] (helo=A-D7C46940DCF54) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5I7X-0002kA-U9; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:42:02 -0500 Received: from [80.33.32.80] (helo=..dearriba.com) by smtp2.cistron.nl with esmtp ( 3.35 #1 ()) id 179LFL-0068PT-81 Message-ID: <54014313144732.R37481@.noc..gr> Sender: freeradius-devel-azbgveuvtukr@msn.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:36:58 +0500 From: "Lula Bartley" To: cfrg-admin@ietf.org Subject: Woww..8o-% 0ff Cfrg-admin X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 This Months speciial: Vi-codinn - 199.00 Valiuum - 169.00 Viagraa - 199.00 Cia-llis - 269.00 Codeinne - 219.00 Xa-naax - 179.00 All orderrs are delivered by UPS with full tracking 24/7. 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N0-re m0val are re'qui-red xtfnipXStwV7DlYTtdkyqE1KJdAw1RQ1N7UJevAALOHwaXv1Nee963u2N3ZxDImgm From juvekdpu@go2.pl Sun Feb 27 12:09:22 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13753; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:09:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5Rvb-0001Qd-P1; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:10:00 -0500 Received: from [210.106.80.82] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1D5Ruz-0001OD-QL; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:09:22 -0500 Received: from symphony-20.go2.pl ([44.160.23.240]:1906 "HELO mail.go2.pl") by go2.pl with SMTP id ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:04:42 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:04:42 +0100 Message-Id: <7.1.70.2081924.0083fc70@go2.pl> From: "Carlos Yarbrough" To: Subject: Special offer for 2005 X-message-flag: Authentic Sender, Hash: LKQLMTEA List-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----------A48356845382213" X-Spam-Score: 9.4 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 2ce306e4307a2c0b518ae453b13efdd0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------A48356845382213 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------A85031401794097" ------------A85031401794097 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.g3tit.com/mortgage.asp. ------------A85031401794097 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tog beryllium

     
     
     
     
     
     
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from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24828 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:37:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D217C20389; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BD520382; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:37:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EE020382 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:36:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51982037B for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:36:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D5UDV-00053L-Nx for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:36:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1RJaaH02858 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:36:36 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Issue 293: Client behavior Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) I have opened Issue 293 to track the portion of the issues that Glen raised that relate to client behavior with respect to identity selection. Here is the full text of the issue: Issue 293: Client Behavior Submitter name: Glen Zorn Submitter email address: gwz@cisco.com Date first submitted: 2/27/2005 Reference: Document: IDSEL-10 Comment type: T Priority: S Section: Various Rationale/Explanation of issue The document does not define the required client behavior. [Farid Adrangi] I am not sure if this is in the scope of the draft. The 3GPP reference (i.e., TS24.234) describes the client behavior in detail. [Bernard Aboba] Can you provide a link to this document? [Farooq Bari] Following is the link. 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    ----67242415629820725-- From bar_paulusoro@eresmas.com Mon Feb 28 08:04:38 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16643; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp13.eresmas.com ([62.81.235.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5kaO-0006ag-Tc; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:05:25 -0500 Received: from [192.168.105.171] (helo=ma23.eresmas.com) by smtp13.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1D5kOq-0004zn-00; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:53:24 +0100 From: paul usoro mr To: bar_paulusoro@eresmas.com Reply-To: bar_paulusoro@lawyer.com Message-ID: <19655519a816.19a816196555@ma23.eresmas.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:53:25 GMT X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: ARE YOU CAPABLE? MY CLIENT WANTS TO INVEST IN YOUR COMPANY OR COUNTRY X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 14.1 (++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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    FROM THE DESK OF BARRISTER PAUL USORO
    PERSONAL LAWYER TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA.

    DEAR SIR,

    I PERSONALLY APOLOGISE FOR USING THIS RATHER UNCONVENTIONAL MEANS TO BRING THIS PROPOSALTO YOU.
    MY NAME IS BARRISTER PAUL USORO, I AM A PRIVATE ATTORNEY AND I HAVE A CLIENT WHO IS INTERESTED IN INVESTING SOME GOOD MONEY IN YOUR COUNTRY/COMPANY.MY CLIENT IS A VERY IMPORTANT AND PROMINENT PERSON WHO HAS MANDATED ME TO CONTACT YOU OR YOUR COMPANY FOR A VERY IMPORTANT BUSINESS TRANSACTION.MY CLIENT IS BY NAME MR. CHARLES TAYLOR AND HE WAS THE FORMAL PRESIDENTOF LIBERIA FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF LIBERIA. MR. CHARLES TAYLOR MADE ALOT OF MONEY THROUGH GOLD/DIAMOND, OIL PROCEEDS DURING HIS TENURE IN OFFICE.THE TRUTH OF THIS CASE IS THAT MY CLIENT DESPITE THE PROBLEM HE IS GOING THROUGH NOW, HE STILL HAS A LOT OF MONEY IN HIS POSSESSION. WHICH HE INTENDS TO INVEST OUTSIDE THEIR COUNTRY LIBERIA.

    WHAT MY CLIENT NEEDS FROM YOU NOW IS A RELIABLE ACCOUNT WHERE HE CAN TRANSFER SOME MONEY BUT MIND YOU, ALL THE MONEY IN HIS POSSESSION CAN NOT LEAVE AT ONCE BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO BUILD CONFIDENCE AND TRUST IN SOMEONE WHO WOULD NOT EXPOSE HIS PLAN TO REMIT AND POSSIBLY INVEST IN YOUR COUNTRY/ COMPANY. SO HE HAS AGREED THAT I SHOULD MAKE ARRANGEMENT FOR THE TRANSFER OF US$250 MILLION US DOLLARS(TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS) THEN IF HE FINDS YOU RELIABLE, HE WILL STILL TRANSFER THE REMAINING US$25O MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS AND YOU ARE FREE TO NEGOTIATE YOUR MODE OF COMPENSATION EVEN IF HE INTENDS TO INVEST THE MONEY IN YOUR COUNTRY.
    PLEASE, DO NOT HESITATE TO INDICATE YOUR VIEW OF THIS REQUEST BY CONTACTING ME IMMEDIATELY YOU RECEIVE THIS MAIL, SO THAT THE NECESSARY ARRANGEMENTS CAN BE MADE FOR THE MONEY TO LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. DUE TO THE PRESENT SITUATION OF MY CLIENT, I WOULD BE HAPPY IF THIS REQUEST CAN BE KEPT A SECRET. I WOULD ALSO LIKE YOU TO NOTE THAT THERE IS NO RISK INVOLVED. I HOPE MY CLIENT WOULD BE HAPPY INVESTING WITH YOU.  IF THIS PROPOSAL IS ACCEPTABLE BY YOU, DO NOT FORGET TO SEND YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS WHEN REPLYING.

    IF YOU ARE INTREASTED KINDLY REPLY ME BACK AT MY PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESS:(bar_paulusoro@lawyer.com)

    THANKS,

    YOURS FAITHFULLY,
    BARRISTER PAUL USORO(SAN)

    From bar_paulusoro@eresmas.com Mon Feb 28 08:04:38 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16642; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp13.eresmas.com ([62.81.235.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5kaO-0006aB-Oi; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:05:25 -0500 Received: from [192.168.105.171] (helo=ma23.eresmas.com) by smtp13.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1D5kOy-000539-00; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:53:32 +0100 From: paul usoro mr To: bar_paulusoro@eresmas.com Reply-To: bar_paulusoro@lawyer.com Message-ID: <19dded199388.19938819dded@ma23.eresmas.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:53:33 GMT X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: ARE YOU CAPABLE? MY CLIENT WANTS TO INVEST IN YOUR COMPANY OR COUNTRY X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 14.1 (++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3Ctable border=3D0 width=3D=22100=25=22 cellpadding=3D=228=22 cellpaddi= ng=3D=228=22=3E=3Ctr=3E=3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22=23ffffff=22=3E=3CP=3EFROM THE = DESK OF BARRISTER PAUL USORO=3CBR=3EPERSONAL LAWYER TO THE FORMER PRESIDE= NT OF LIBERIA=2E=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EDEAR SIR=2C=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EI PERSONALLY APOLOGISE FOR USING THIS RATHER UNCONVENTIONAL MEANS = TO BRING THIS PROPOSALTO YOU=2E=3CBR=3EMY NAME IS BARRISTER PAUL USORO=2C= I AM A PRIVATE ATTORNEY AND I HAVE A CLIENT WHO IS INTERESTED IN INVESTI= NG SOME GOOD MONEY IN YOUR COUNTRY/COMPANY=2EMY CLIENT IS A VERY IMPORTAN= T AND PROMINENT PERSON WHO HAS MANDATED ME TO CONTACT YOU OR YOUR COMPANY= FOR A VERY IMPORTANT BUSINESS TRANSACTION=2EMY CLIENT IS BY NAME MR=2E C= HARLES TAYLOR AND HE WAS THE FORMAL PRESIDENTOF LIBERIA FEDERAL REPUBLIC = OF LIBERIA=2E MR=2E CHARLES TAYLOR MADE ALOT OF MONEY THROUGH GOLD/DIAMON= D=2C OIL PROCEEDS DURING HIS TENURE IN OFFICE=2ETHE TRUTH OF THIS CASE IS= THAT MY CLIENT DESPITE THE PROBLEM HE IS GOING THROUGH NOW=2C HE STILL H= AS A LOT OF MONEY IN HIS POSSESSION=2E WHICH HE INTENDS TO INVEST OUTSIDE= THEIR COUNTRY LIBERIA=2E=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EWHAT MY CLIENT NEEDS FROM YOU NOW IS A RELIABLE ACCOUNT WHERE HE C= AN TRANSFER SOME MONEY BUT MIND YOU=2C ALL THE MONEY IN HIS POSSESSION CA= N NOT LEAVE AT ONCE BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO BUILD CONFIDENCE AND TRUST IN SOM= EONE WHO WOULD NOT EXPOSE HIS PLAN TO REMIT AND POSSIBLY INVEST IN YOUR C= OUNTRY/ COMPANY=2E SO HE HAS AGREED THAT I SHOULD MAKE ARRANGEMENT FOR TH= E TRANSFER OF US=24250 MILLION US DOLLARS(TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION U= NITED STATES DOLLARS) THEN IF HE FINDS YOU RELIABLE=2C HE WILL STILL TRAN= SFER THE REMAINING US=2425O MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS AND YOU ARE FRE= E TO NEGOTIATE YOUR MODE OF COMPENSATION EVEN IF HE INTENDS TO INVEST THE= MONEY IN YOUR COUNTRY=2E=3CBR=3EPLEASE=2C DO NOT HESITATE TO INDICATE YO= UR VIEW OF THIS REQUEST BY CONTACTING ME IMMEDIATELY YOU RECEIVE THIS MAI= L=2C SO THAT THE NECESSARY ARRANGEMENTS CAN BE MADE FOR THE MONEY TO LEAV= E IMMEDIATELY=2E DUE TO THE PRESENT SITUATION OF MY CLIENT=2C I WOULD BE = HAPPY IF THIS REQUEST CAN BE KEPT A SECRET=2E I WOULD ALSO LIKE YOU TO NO= TE THAT THERE IS NO RISK INVOLVED=2E I HOPE MY CLIENT WOULD BE HAPPY INVE= STING WITH YOU=2E=26nbsp=3B IF THIS PROPOSAL IS ACCEPTABLE BY YOU=2C DO N= OT FORGET TO SEND YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS WHEN REPLYING=2E= =3C/P=3E =3CP=3EIF YOU ARE INTREASTED KINDLY REPLY ME BACK AT MY PRIVATE EMAIL ADD= RESS=3A(=3CA href=3D=22mailto=3Abar=5Fpaulusoro=40lawyer=2Ecom=22=3Ebar=5F= paulusoro=40lawyer=2Ecom=3C/A=3E)=3C/P=3E =3CP=3ETHANKS=2C=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EYOURS FAITHFULLY=2C=3CBR=3EBARRISTER PAUL USORO(SAN)=3CBR=3E=3C/P=3E= =3C/td=3E=3C/tr=3E=3C/table=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cspan style=3D=22font-fam= ily=3Amonospace=22=3E----------------------------------------------------= -------------------=3C/span=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cspan style=3D=22font-family=3Ave= rdana=3Bfont-size=3A11px=3B=22=3E=A1Enam=F3rate!=3Cbr=3E Encuentra en Wan= adoo Amor y Amistad a esa persona especial=3Cbr=3E=3Ca href=3D=22http=3A/= /banner=2Eeresmas=2Ecom/adclick/CID=3D00005ea3c858344d00000000/site=3DERE= SMAS/area=3DERESMAS=2ECORREO/aamsz=3DPIE=5FWEBMAIL=22 target=3D=22=5Fblan= k=22=3Ehttp=3A//match=2Ewanadoo=2Ees/match/mt=2Ecfm=3Fpg=3Dchannel=26tcid= =3D202920=3C/a=3E=3C/span=3E=3Cbr=3E From Lavrentios@gamebird.com Mon Feb 28 09:57:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA26717 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:57:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200502281457.JAA26717@ietf.org> Received: from [61.74.168.185] (helo=gamebird.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5mLM-0000Kr-Pd for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:57:58 -0500 From: "Mavourneen Christensen" To: "Dilys Tobias" Subject: OXQ Phharmaccy Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:17:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_0E4B960A.C834B750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_0E4B960A.C834B750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, this oily financier who came smiling and in sheep's clothing, Frank Cowperwood had taught her a number of things. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0005_0E4B960A.C834B750-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 28 10:36:08 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01720 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:36:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DEAC2028D; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CD920252; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:36:05 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6BB20252 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:35:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0969A2024C for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.client.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1D5mvc-000M0p-Gb for eap@frascone.com; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:35:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j1SFZNw12010 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:35:23 -0800 From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] EAP WG Agenda for IETF 62: Take Two Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:35:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Extensible Authentication Protocol WG (eap) Friday, March 11, 2005 0900 - 1130 =================================== Room TBD CHAIRS: Jari Arkko Bernard Aboba AGENDA: Preliminaries (chairs), 10 min Blue Sheets Minute Takers Agenda Bashing Document Status See also http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/eapissues.html Keying framework discussion (Bernard Aboba), 50 min http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt Network selection update (chairs/Farid Adrangi), 10 min http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-10.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-netsel-problem-02.txt Methods EAP PAX (Charles Clancy), 10 min http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-clancy-eap-pax-01.txt EAP TTLS (Paul Funk), 10 min http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v0-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v1-00.txt EAP POTP (Magnus Nystrom), 10 min http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nystrom-eap-potp-00.txt _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 28 14:58:14 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29281 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:58:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B974020445; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:58:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C7C20420; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:58:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6FC20420 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:57:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from swip.net (mailfe06.swip.net [212.247.154.161]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C173A203E0 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:57:15 -0500 (EST) X-T2-Posting-ID: TlrHmwDFCX01iQZd0Fm6v3T8FBlCqve5GwI1mWaefYU= Received: from [83.177.198.16] (HELO DELL.tele2.fr) by mailfe06.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.9) with ESMTP id 305013010; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:56:51 +0100 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050228204512.03513cb8@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: eu968071@pop.tele2.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: aboba@internaut.com, jari.arkko@piuha.net From: Pascal Urien Cc: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] 5' slot ? - EAP WG Agenda for IETF 62 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:56:58 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Bernard & Jari, Could i get a 5' slot on Friday, March 11, 2005, in order to briefly present the two following drafts http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-07.txt Best Regards. Pascal Urien. http://www.infres.enst.fr/~urien/openeapsmartcard/ _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Feb 28 18:38:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA21700 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CEC20483; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFAB203A1; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:38:05 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3B4203A1 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ringding.cs.umd.edu (ringding.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.2]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CD52028D for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:37:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from charmpop.cs.umd.edu (charmpop.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.111]) by ringding.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j1SNbcnO016331 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:37:38 -0500 (EST) From: "T. Charles Clancy" To: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] EAP WG Agenda for IETF 62: Take Two In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:37:38 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) I submitted an updated version of the PAX draft, but it hasn't found it's way to the IETF website yet. http://www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy/eap-pax/draft-clancy-eap-pax-02.html http://www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy/eap-pax/draft-clancy-eap-pax-02.txt It consolidates the two modes that use certificates into one, vastly simplifying the security discussions related to public key usage. It also addresses the NAI issues. Topics brought up but not yet addressed include key naming and TLV support. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Bernard Aboba wrote: > Extensible Authentication Protocol WG (eap) > > Friday, March 11, 2005 > 0900 - 1130 > =================================== > Room TBD > > CHAIRS: Jari Arkko > Bernard Aboba > > AGENDA: > > Preliminaries (chairs), 10 min > Blue Sheets > Minute Takers > Agenda Bashing > Document Status > See also http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/eapissues.html > > Keying framework discussion (Bernard Aboba), 50 min > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-05.txt > > Network selection update (chairs/Farid Adrangi), 10 min > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-10.txt > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-netsel-problem-02.txt > > Methods > > EAP PAX (Charles Clancy), 10 min > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-clancy-eap-pax-01.txt > > EAP TTLS (Paul Funk), 10 min > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v0-00.txt > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-funk-eap-ttls-v1-00.txt > > EAP POTP (Magnus Nystrom), 10 min > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nystrom-eap-potp-00.txt > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Tosunlar@darkhorsefan.net Mon Feb 28 23:21:21 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA13327; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from 234.red-80-24-90.pooles.rima-tde.net ([80.24.90.234] helo=codec.ro) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1D5ytR-0000cd-LE; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:22:17 -0500 From: "Valdez Alejandro" To: "Cooper Katrina" Subject: Re[4]: talk about her tabs Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:22:30 -0100 Message-ID: <7b7101c51e16$02f4c274$ea5a1850@codec.ro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0123_456789AB.CDEF0123" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Score: 10.7 (++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 6379955759c38e2371a49573a0932fc7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0123_456789AB.CDEF0123 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable arm Inc e Yo xual Des Spe ume by % reas ur Se ire and rm vol 500 100 ural and de Eff - in con t to wel wn bra % Nat No Si ects tras l-kno nds. 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