From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 9 08:47:34 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02427 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h59Cl7Q31721 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:47:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cl7B31718 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:47:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02395 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM1I-00031C-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:45:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM1H-000318-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:45:03 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cl6B31708 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:47:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59CiCB31529 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:44:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02115 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PLyS-0002wA-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:42:08 -0400 Received: from mailgw2a.lmco.com ([192.91.147.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PLyR-0002w5-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:42:07 -0400 Received: from emss01g01.ems.lmco.com ([129.197.181.54]) by mailgw2a.lmco.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Ci2G13382 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.lmco.com by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) id <0HG700J01SPEQV@lmco.com> for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 05:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EMSS09I00.us.lmco.com ([158.183.26.31]) by lmco.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #40643) with ESMTP id <0HG700L9YSPDZH@lmco.com> for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 05:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by EMSS09I00.us.lmco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:44:01 -0400 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:43:59 -0400 From: "Eagan, Christopher" To: "'sipping-emergency@ietf.org'" Message-id: <3F2F205501D3D411878C0008C7E645940CD31004@emss09m06.ems.lmco.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all, Yes, I did read this isn't the place for SIP/MLPP development issues. Can anybody point me to the right place (if such a place exists)? Or for MLPP over IP in general? So far this is the only place I am finding it mentioned much at all. Thanks in advance. Christopher Eagan Software Engineer Lockheed Martin christopher.eagan@lmco.com 301-240-6328 _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 9 08:56:28 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02985 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h59Cu1L32083 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cu1B32080 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02979 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM9u-0003EA-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:53:58 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM9t-0003E7-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:53:57 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cu0B32068 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59CtPB32022 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:55:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02971 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM9J-0003Dk-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0400 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PM9I-0003Dh-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:53:20 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:55:19 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.11]) by mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.21) with SMTP id M2003060908551609572 ; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:55:16 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:55 -0400 Message-Id: From: "King, Kimberly S." To: "'Eagan, Christopher'" , "'sipping-emergency@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:55:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Chris, It is in IEPREP http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ieprep-charter.html . They refer to it as assured service since MLPP is the circuit-switched version of the general assured service capability. - Kimberly >-----Original Message----- >From: Eagan, Christopher [mailto:christopher.eagan@lmco.com] >Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:44 AM >To: 'sipping-emergency@ietf.org' >Subject: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? > > >Hi all, > >Yes, I did read this isn't the place for SIP/MLPP development >issues. Can >anybody point me to the right place (if such a place exists)? >Or for MLPP >over IP in general? So far this is the only place I am >finding it mentioned >much at all. > >Thanks in advance. > >Christopher Eagan >Software Engineer >Lockheed Martin >christopher.eagan@lmco.com >301-240-6328 > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping-emergency mailing list >Sipping-emergency@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency > _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 9 08:58:29 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03030 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h59Cw2A32190 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:58:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cw2B32187 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:58:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03027 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PMBq-0003Eh-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:55:58 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PMBq-0003Ee-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:55:58 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Cw1B32179 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:58:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59CvAB32137 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03012 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PMB0-0003EY-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:55:06 -0400 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PMAz-0003EV-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:55:05 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:02 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.12]) by mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.21) with SMTP id M2003060908570103040 ; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:57:01 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:23 -0400 Message-Id: From: "King, Kimberly S." To: "'Eagan, Christopher'" , "'sipping-emergency@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:56:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Chris, Also, the SIP mechanism for a MLPP-type indicator is being worked in SIP. Kimberly >-----Original Message----- >From: Eagan, Christopher [mailto:christopher.eagan@lmco.com] >Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:44 AM >To: 'sipping-emergency@ietf.org' >Subject: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? > > >Hi all, > >Yes, I did read this isn't the place for SIP/MLPP development >issues. Can >anybody point me to the right place (if such a place exists)? >Or for MLPP >over IP in general? So far this is the only place I am >finding it mentioned >much at all. > >Thanks in advance. > >Christopher Eagan >Software Engineer >Lockheed Martin >christopher.eagan@lmco.com >301-240-6328 > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping-emergency mailing list >Sipping-emergency@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency > _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 9 14:53:27 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16490 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h59Ir2R27177 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:53:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Ir2B27174 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:53:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16476 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PRjM-0006FM-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:50:56 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PRjL-0006FJ-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:50:55 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Ir1B27164 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:53:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h59Iq9B27113 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:52:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16435 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PRiU-0006Ew-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:50:02 -0400 Received: from halt-in.cisco.com ([171.70.144.185]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19PRiT-0006Ej-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:50:01 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.223) by halt-in.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jun 2003 11:51:32 -0800 Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id LAA07737 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030609135000.020febc8@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:51:33 -0500 To: "'sipping-emergency@ietf.org'" From: "James M. Polk" Subject: RE: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 08:56 AM 6/9/2003 -0400, King, Kimberly S. wrote: >Chris, > >Also, the SIP mechanism for a MLPP-type indicator is being worked in SIP. and there is the MLPP reqs into SIPPING at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-mlpp-reqs-00 an updated version is coming before Vienna >Kimberly > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Eagan, Christopher [mailto:christopher.eagan@lmco.com] > >Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:44 AM > >To: 'sipping-emergency@ietf.org' > >Subject: [Sipping-emergency] Directions to MLPP development? > > > > > >Hi all, > > > >Yes, I did read this isn't the place for SIP/MLPP development > >issues. Can > >anybody point me to the right place (if such a place exists)? > >Or for MLPP > >over IP in general? So far this is the only place I am > >finding it mentioned > >much at all. > > > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Christopher Eagan > >Software Engineer > >Lockheed Martin > >christopher.eagan@lmco.com > >301-240-6328 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sipping-emergency mailing list > >Sipping-emergency@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency > > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping-emergency mailing list >Sipping-emergency@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency cheers, James ******************* The answer is "42", what's the question? _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jun 13 08:56:10 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA00738 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5DCtgE07030 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:55:42 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DCtfm07027 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:55:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA00715 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qo3e-0004Bu-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:53:30 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qo3e-0004Bq-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:53:30 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5CJC0a17864 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:12:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5CJBcm17844 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:11:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24105 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QXRw-0005Pw-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:09:28 -0400 Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.56]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QXRv-0005Pr-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:09:27 -0400 Received: from zcard307.ca.nortel.com (americasm01.nt.com [47.129.242.67]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h5CJAeg02132; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.164]) by zcard307.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id MLYH9A29; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:10:40 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (acart1ct.ca.nortel.com [47.129.129.69]) by zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JQNA0TF8; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:10:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3EE8D021.40109@nortelnetworks.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:10:25 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henning Schulzrinne CC: sipping-emergency@ietf.org, Patrick.Emery@aca.gov.au, dick.rr.knight@bt.com, "Mary Barnes" , "James McEachern" , steve.norreys@bt.com Subject: Re: [Sipping-emergency] Emergency Scenarios Document References: <3ECA9992.9030002@nortelnetworks.com> <3ECD816D.4080608@cs.columbia.edu> In-Reply-To: <3ECD816D.4080608@cs.columbia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About time I finished this and got the document submitted. My remarks prefaced with [PTT]. I had help from Jim McEachern. Henning Schulzrinne wrote: >> centresin the PSTN, the scenarios involving stationary or >> nomadic SIP > > > spelling [PTT] Fixed > >> phones are described and then alternative strategies for >> supporting the information flows for the scenarios needed to >> meet these requirements are examined. The analysis presented >> here is a necessary step in defining the SIP specific >> requirements for invoking emergency assistance and understanding >> the level of functionality that can be provided by existing SIP >> devices and network elements and that which requires further >> development. > > >> in the European Market in general, or 000 in Australia. (Globally > > > I thought it was European Community? [PTT] Fixed. > >> there are about 60 different emergency services numbers in use >> [4].) > > >> This document uses the term SIP phone to denote a device which >> plugs into a wired network. This can be a either a physical >> phone device or a PC running a software based SIP client (often >> referred to as a SIP softphone). These devices can be >> stationary or nomadic. > > > Why a wired network? I think the issues for a PDA or laptop or even a > phone (via an Ethernet-to-802.11 bridge) that connects via an 802.11 > hotspot are fairly similar. [PTT] I've rewritten this section to focus on the distinction between stationary, nomadic, and mobile, with little mention of access technology. This should also answer your next comment. > >> >> Scenarios involving cellular phones using SIP signalling are not >> necessarily considered, because the current expectation is that >> they use the emergency service solutions devised for cellular >> phones in general. However, it is anticipated that many aspects >> of a general SIP signaling solution could apply to those >> scenarios. The requirements for Wi-Fi enabled devices (e.g. a >> SIP softphone with Wi- >> Fi access, a Wi-Fi phone etc.) using SIP signalling are >> considered from the perspective that these devices can be >> represented as nomadic SIP users and thus addressed by several >> of the scenarios described in this document. > > > I would not make the distinction up front. > >> "legacy" is used to refer to "Enhanced 911" functionality.) > > > You mean 'basic 911'? [PTT] I mean E911. A number of the requirements come up only in that context. > >> the difference in medium and the fact that a different number >> may be dialed to initiate the call. > > > I think all single-number systems support TDD on the same number; that's > at least true for 911, as far as I know. [PTT] Qualified to say that it may be different in some countries (Australia, for sure). > >> (1) The caller requires an easily-remembered, >> location-independent means of identifying an emergency >> call. Moreover, it must be possible to indicate whether >> this is a voice call or one to be directed to a text ECC. > > > I don't think so. I think the 911 destination listens for the TDD modem > tone and then switches to a TDD. This is not by number. > >> >> (5) The ECC operator can stay in touch with the caller, even >> though the telephone set goes on hook for an intervening >> period. An example of when this is useful is if the caller, >> feeling unwell, accidentally drops the telephone back onto >> its cradle, but then is able to retrieve it. > > > As discussed previously, this is not a universal feature. This is more > of an urban legend at this point :-) [PTT] Qualified to say it depends on the country. It's required in Canada. > >> >> (6) Emergency calls are given priority handling in call >> processing and high quality media connections. (The quality >> of media connections is outside the scope of this document.) > > > Again, I don't think this is generally true, at least in the US. [PTT] Qualified to say it depends on the country. It's done in the UK. > > >> >> (7) The caller can be held accountable for the call, to dissuade >> callers from misuse of the system. > > > If you ignore pay phones :-) > >> >> 3.3 Legacy System Operation >> In the legacy network, the public telephone system operator is >> responsible for maintaining the mapping database. > > > This is imprecise - at least in the US, there is no 'the' telephone > system operator. It is generally the ILEC, but I think it would be > unhelpful to imply that we live in pre-1984/pre-1996 land. [PTT] Changed to operators (plural). > >> the location. Alternatively, various locations can be >> identified within the business and assigned a pseudo directory >> number (DN), > > > Even for phones with DID, extensions are usually not visible to the > outside. (I've tried it - all of our extensions show up as 7000. We have > DID in 7000 to 7199.) [PTT] Right. It requires additional arrangements. When it is done, blocks of numbers are allocated to specific trunks. For each outward call, the telco checks the calling line identification against the trunk it is arriving on and accepts if if that check passes. My text is actually correct, but I've expanded upon the DID case a bit. > >> A special arrangement at the switch serving the ECC allows the >> emergency operator to hold open the voice path back to the >> caller as long as necessary, even if the caller goes on-hook. >> It should be noted that this functionality is not supported for >> ISDN. Thus, the operator can also ring the caller's line in this >> situation or others where it might be necessary. > > > I would qualify this as "In analog switches, ....". Most switches today > are effectively ISDN (or equivalent), so this feature is likely only > available to a tiny fraction of end systems. [PTT] You're getting confused between digital switches and analogue vs. ISDN access. In the US and Canada, most lines are analogue, even though practically all the switches are digital. In Europe, ISDN access is the dominant mode. > >> 4.1 A General Look At The Problem > > > at the > >> signalling passes through other intelligent elements -- SIP >> proxies and a gateway -- before reaching the telephone network. >> The SIP > > > A SIP proxy isn't mandatory. [PTT] Agreed, and I've always had that in mind. I added "perhaps" after the proxies. > > [More in next message.] > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping-emergency mailing list > Sipping-emergency@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency > _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From mailnull@www1.ietf.org Fri Jun 13 12:58:31 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12446 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5DGw4302131 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:58:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DGw3m02091 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:58:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12230 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QrqC-0006kn-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:52 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=www1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19QrqB-0006kk-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:55:51 -0400 Received: from www1.ietf.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DDc0a11601 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:38:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h5DDb1m10664 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:37:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA04366 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qohe-0005A7-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:34:50 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Qohd-00059S-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:34:50 -0400 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h5DDaKU18450; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.164]) by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id KRLG1K22; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:36:20 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (acart1d8.ca.nortel.com [47.129.129.84]) by zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JQNA0TMM; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:36:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3EE9D34F.7020608@nortelnetworks.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:36:15 -0400 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping-emergency@ietf.org, Patrick.Emery@aca.gov.au, dick.rr.knight@bt.com, steve.norreys@bt.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping-emergency] The Real Emergency Calling Scenarios To Look At Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dealt too lightly with Henning's remark on the optionality of proxies in my previous message. Obviously I had to follow through and consider the effect on each scenario. This got me thinking about the real variables of interest, which is probably the point of the whole exercise. It seems to me the key variables are these: (1) Whether the SIP phone is being used in stationary, nomadic, or mobile mode (with the latter still being out of scope?). Stationary usage implies that information on location and call-back addressing can be lodged in a network database in advance of the emergency call. (2) Whether there is a proxy in the signalling path, or the SIP phone signals directly to a PSTN gateway. A proxy provides the opportunity for gateway selection if location information is available. (3) Whether the SIP phone can reach a PSTN gateway which in turn can reach the ECC in jurisdiction. (4) Whether there is an opportunity to pull together information about the SIP phone's physical location (in the case of Wi-Fi or LAN access) or at least the calling number (for dial-up access), correlate it with the caller's contact information, and use the results to provide necessary data to the PSTN gateway. People can think about this list and consider whether I have it right. My problem now is what this does to the scenarios document. I'll have to think through how many independent scenarios we really have taking account of the above variables, and whether they are close enough to the ones already in the document. In any event, a list like the one above should appear in a Conclusions section, along with the implications for possible solutions. Tom _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Jun 23 02:14:41 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09604 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5N6EDn12613 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UKai-0003HM-FN for sipping-emergency-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09553 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19UKaf-0007Tn-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19UKaZ-0007Tj-00 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UKaX-0003Ez-71 for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UKZl-00035J-CW for sipping-emergency@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:13:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09454 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19UKZh-0007TD-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:13:09 -0400 Received: from zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.56]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19UKZX-0007So-00 for sipping-emergency@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:12:59 -0400 Received: from zcard307.ca.nortel.com (americasm07.nt.com [47.129.242.67]) by zcars04e.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h5N6C2201905 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.164]) by zcard307.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NLV5ZQP8; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:12:03 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (acart1fd.ca.nortel.com [47.129.129.155]) by zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NLV9J5BC; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:12:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3EF69A2C.8090103@nortelnetworks.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:11:56 -0400 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030507 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping-emergency@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping-emergency] Scenarios Document Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The hour of sending of this note is proof that my heart was in the right place -- I was trying to meet the deadline for submitting the scenarios draft as an I-D. However, the extent of my rewrite is very large, and I won't finish it tonight. That probably suggests that the design team should review it before it goes out in any event. Tom _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Jun 24 14:14:59 2003 Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29116 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5OIEV727351 for sipping-emergency-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:14:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UsJL-000774-9l for sipping-emergency-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:14:31 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29081 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UsIr-00076B-0g for sipping-emergency-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19UsIk-00075v-EK for sipping-emergency@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:13:54 -0400 Received: from bdsl.greycouncil.com (bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net [66.12.12.130]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29020 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from txdwillis (bdsl.66.12.12.254.gte.net [66.12.12.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5OI7nTh009784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:07:49 -0500 From: "Dean Willis" To: "'Tom Taylor'" , Subject: RE: [Sipping-emergency] Scenarios Document Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:07:34 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c33a7b$7d2067d0$ee036e3f@txdwillis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3EF69A2C.8090103@nortelnetworks.com> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-emergency-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping-emergency@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds fair. Thanks for the "college try" -- to bad we can't pull allnighters like freshmen any more! -- Dean Tom said: > The hour of sending of this note is proof that my heart was > in the right place -- I > was trying to meet the deadline for submitting the scenarios > draft as an I-D. > However, the extent of my rewrite is very large, and I won't > finish it tonight. > That probably suggests that the design team should review it > before it goes out in > any event. _______________________________________________ Sipping-emergency mailing list Sipping-emergency@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping-emergency