Subject: RE: [Ecrit] some observations from yesterday wg meeting

From: "James Winterbottom" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 19:45:32 +1000

Bah!!!

The problem must exist in someone's charter, and GeoPriv don't seem to want
it either!

It is not easy, without having relatively substantial local foot print, to
spoof emergency calls with in the USA today. In a IP world, that is simply
not true any longer with the currently proposed mechanisms of user created
location documents, no matter where the source data came from. That is
consumers of location (location recipients LRs) have absolutely NO means of
assuring that this correct. The same is absolutely not true for 99.999% of
PSTN calls. 

Location is today in the cellular and wireline world is the responsibility
of the access provider, and this will need to remain the responsibility of
the access provider in the future until telekenic-osmosis becomes a reality.
ECRIT or GeoPriv pick it up until then, but stop passing the buck!!!

Cheers
James

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Brian Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2005 7:21 PM
To: 'Andrew Newton'
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ecrit] some observations from yesterday wg meeting

But that problem is not in our charter.  If an attacker learned a PSAP's SIP
URI from any mechanism, they can mount an attack.

True.

Not in our charter.

Determining that a location represents the location of the caller is within
charter.

I believe identity of caller is NOT a requirement in general, but I think
it's clearly not a requirement in ecrit.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Newton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:07 AM
To: Brian Rosen
Cc: 'James Seng'; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] some observations from yesterday wg meeting

On Aug 3, 2005, at 3:23 AM, Brian Rosen wrote:

> This discussion is more or less out of charter, as the work in ecrit 
> addresses the first point above.

I don't think so.  I think James has made a fairly important point:  
the notion that L2 location must be signed can simply be circumvented  
by an attacker contacting the PSAP's SIP server directly.

-andy

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---

From: "Brian Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 06:09:30 -0400

Chairs?

I was not a fan of the narrow focus of the charter.  It is what it is.

Each change in technology changes the situation for emergency call systems.
It takes away things, and provides new things.  When mobile phones came,
they removed accurate location and substituted inaccurate location in a
totally different, and difficult-for-psap-to-use form.  They even took away
call back number in the case of un-initialized phones. They gave the
possibility of tracking a moving caller, and they gave the ability to get
calls immediately from the scene of common events like car crashes.  On
balance, it's a good thing.

VoIP is the same; some things are being taken away, some things are being
added.  It's different, get over it.

Brian

________________________________________
From: James Winterbottom [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:46 AM
To: Brian Rosen; 'Andrew Newton'
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ecrit] some observations from yesterday wg meeting

Bah!!! 

Cheers 
James

---

From: "Marc Linsner" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 07:03:36 -0400

James,
 
The Internet is not attempting to look like the PSTN. (some would say for
good reason)
 
-Marc-

  _____  

James Winterbottom

Bah!!! 

Cheers 
James 

-----Original Message----- 

True. 

Not in our charter. 

Brian 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Andrew Newton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:07 AM 
To: Brian Rosen 
Cc: 'James Seng'; [email-masked] 
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] some observations from yesterday wg meeting 

-andy