From nobody Tue Feb 2 08:37:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405681B2D2C; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 08:37:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160202163755.7932.74346.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 08:37:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:37:55 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nit: "funciton" should be "function". In this text: Evolving architectures in Europe to address regulatory requirements, such as [M493], couple location and routing information in the access network whilst using a softswitch-centric approach to emergency call processing. "softswitch-centric" is clearly defined in Section 3, but that's later in the document. Perhaps you could include a forward reference to Section 3 here? From nobody Tue Feb 2 18:39:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD21C1B31E8; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:39:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203023945.29944.26379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 18:39:45 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 02:39:45 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is some confusion about whether this draft updates 6881. The headers and section 5 say it does, but the abstract does not. (Since the abstract _does_ mention 5985, I assume the authors intended to follow the convention of mentioning such things in the abstract.) It would be nice to have a sentence or two on why some countries are reluctant to deploy public LoST servers. (I recognize there may be too many worms in that can, so feel free to ignore.) - section 5, 2nd paragraph: I don't understand the 2nd sentence. It seems like this updates 6881 or it doesn't. From nobody Wed Feb 3 01:59:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FE81A889D; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 01:59:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203095943.7789.12478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 01:59:43 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 09:59:43 -0000 Dear Brian Rosen, Hannes Tschofenig, Roger Marshall, Randall Gellens, James Winterbottom: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Additional Data Related to an Emergency Call" (draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2748/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Wed Feb 3 06:19:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDAF21ACCFF; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 06:19:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Brian Haberman" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203141943.22931.6731.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 06:19:43 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Brian Haberman's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:19:43 -0000 Brian Haberman has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is a training review from Suresh Krishnan (incoming INT AD) * Section 7 Not using documentation address block for examples. Using RFC1918 space instead. IANA has allocated 192.0.2.0/24 for documentation use. From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:28:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867F41ACE42 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:28:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ESQIfyjX3U6 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 590471ACE3C for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:28:45 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799c6d000007d66-b6-56b21c979590 Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B3.B4.32102.79C12B65; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 16:28:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:28:43 -0500 From: Theresa Reese To: "Roger Marshall (RMarshall@telecomsys.com)" , "Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFejKu3um/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+gg== Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 15:28:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A495EA4BDBEF2D41BEF21B26FDEC75F32492C071eusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonSneGzKYwg9sbBC2mnbzMbNG46Cmr xeGrS5kcmD2WLPnJ5LGj4Tmzx4atp5gDmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mia9vcNS0FBS0fxFsoGx KbWLkZNDQsBE4sjqFawQtpjEhXvr2boYuTiEBI4wSmx6u5UJJCEksIxR4tROThCbTcBA4vXS PewgtohAI6PEpYNKIDazgKrEucbHLCC2sIC5xPR1q9ggamwkfrxfxgph60n8f3kerJdFQEWi b8IisDivgK/E1aa7YPWMQEd8P7WGCWKmuMStJ/OZII4TkFiy5zwzhC0q8fLxP6ijlSQ+/p7P DlGfL/F+1iaomYISJ2c+YZnAKDwLyahZSMpmISmDiOtILNj9iQ3C1pZYtvA1M4x95sBjJmTx BYzsqxg5SosLcnLTjQw3MQLj5pgEm+MOxr29nocYBTgYlXh4N/zZECbEmlhWXJl7iFGCg1lJ hNdJaFOYEG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrxIUZpDhYlcd65zuvDhATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYzT fRJWxV06efRDcPidLn+LlZUfrOvWlb3ocCxXOurz85zE+/mTr5s2m236cPHapVvBXAaX5Lfx q7zgE7fKkNtuuT3svvrNBpVMSYYfh4QLWzf4aB9nr3665uW+wKIHu5tv1DAIHV98W8e7/4BY 58zV3tOFfsf/yXGYPbejRoG9q8fp31bry0eUWIozEg21mIuKEwE9CuyYlwIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:28:48 -0000 --_000_A495EA4BDBEF2D41BEF21B26FDEC75F32492C071eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and consider this docu= ment to describe a useful capability. During my review, I identified the following NITS: 1. The word "a" is missing from the last sentence of the abstract. Proposed change: From: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "compl= ete location" or "similar location", and are included as compilation of ca = type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message stru= cture." To: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "comple= te location" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca= type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message str= ucture." 2. There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented = throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses "ca type"; Section 2 uses = "CAtype"; Section 3 uses "caType" and "CAtype"; Section 8 usese "CAtype). = The term should be presented consistently throughout the document. 3. Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Sectio= n 2 Proposed change: From: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The ex= ample used within . . ." To: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap,. The ex= ample used within . . ." 4. Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for: Civic Loca= tion, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consisten= cy with the other definitions. 5. The word "of" is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, third senten= ce: Proposed change: From: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could b= e used to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." To: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could be u= sed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." 6. Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence Proposed change: From: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a = findService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked va= lid, the location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be ext= ended to include additional location information specific for that location= ." To: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a f= indService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked val= id,. tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be e= xtended to include additional location information specific for that locati= on." 7. Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in= Section 3. 8. Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., c= hange Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2). Regards, Terry Reese --_000_A495EA4BDBEF2D41BEF21B26FDEC75F32492C071eusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01= and consider this document to describe a useful capability. 

 

During my review, I identified the following NITS:

 

1.     &= nbsp; The word “a” is missing from the last s= entence of the abstract.

 

Proposed change:

From: “These two ty= pes of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete locat= ion" or "similar location", and are included as compilation = of ca type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.”

 

To:  “These tw= o types of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete l= ocation" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca type xml= elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.&#= 8221;

 

2.     &= nbsp; There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtyp= e is presented throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses “ca t= ype”; Section 2 uses “CAtype”; Section 3 uses “caTy= pe” and “CAtype”; Section 8 usese “CAtype).  T= he term should be presented consistently throughout the document.

 

3.     &= nbsp; Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Loc= ation in Section 2

 

Proposed change:

From: “. . . to des= ignates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The example used within .= .  .”

 

To:  “. . . to= designates a place within a= defined grid or basemap,. The example used within . .  .”

 

4.     &= nbsp; Need to add periods at the end of the definitions f= or:  Civic Location, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Sect= ion 2, for consistency with the other definitions.

 

5.     &= nbsp; The word “of” is missing from Section 3= , paragraph 2, third sentence:

 

Proposed change:

From:   “= As an example, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be us= ed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a mun= icipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”

 

To:  “As an ex= ample, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be used to de= fine a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a municip= al location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”=

 

6.     &= nbsp; Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, thir= d sentence

 

Proposed change:

From: “In a valid l= ocation response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService request= that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid, the location i= nformation in the findServiceResponse message MAY be extended to include additional location information specific for th= at location.”

 

To:  “In a val= id location response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService req= uest that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid,.  tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MA= Y be extended to include additional location information specific for that = location.”

 

7.     &= nbsp; Replace the colon with a period at the end of the l= ast sentence in Section 3.

 

8.     &= nbsp; Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Sec= tion 4 (i.e., change Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section = 4.2).

 

 

Regards,

Terry Reese

--_000_A495EA4BDBEF2D41BEF21B26FDEC75F32492C071eusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:40:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629E11ACE67 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:40:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2VHvBwcapDhc for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sea-mx-02.telecomsys.com (sea-mx-02.telecomsys.com [199.165.246.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D45221ACE61 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from SEA-EXCAS-3.telecomsys.com (exc2010-local3.telecomsys.com [10.32.12.6]) by sea-mx-02.telecomsys.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id u13Fe7CG020683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:40:07 -0800 Received: from SEA-EXMB-2.telecomsys.com ([169.254.2.119]) by SEA-EXCAS-3.telecomsys.com ([10.32.12.6]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:40:07 -0800 From: Roger Marshall To: "'Theresa Reese'" , "Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFejKu3um/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggADEqbw Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 15:40:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.32.12.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FBD5AAFFD0978846BF6D3FAB4C892ACC397E4E85SEAEXMB2telecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:40:36 -0000 --_000_FBD5AAFFD0978846BF6D3FAB4C892ACC397E4E85SEAEXMB2telecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry: Thanks for your careful review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01. We= will soon update the draft to take into account these editorial changes. -roger. From: Theresa Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM To: Roger Marshall; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and consider this docu= ment to describe a useful capability. During my review, I identified the following NITS: 1. The word "a" is missing from the last sentence of the abstract. Proposed change: From: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "compl= ete location" or "similar location", and are included as compilation of ca = type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message stru= cture." To: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "comple= te location" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca= type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message str= ucture." 2. There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented = throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses "ca type"; Section 2 uses = "CAtype"; Section 3 uses "caType" and "CAtype"; Section 8 usese "CAtype). = The term should be presented consistently throughout the document. 3. Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Sectio= n 2 Proposed change: From: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The ex= ample used within . . ." To: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap,. The ex= ample used within . . ." 4. Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for: Civic Loca= tion, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consisten= cy with the other definitions. 5. The word "of" is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, third senten= ce: Proposed change: From: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could b= e used to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." To: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could be u= sed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." 6. Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence Proposed change: From: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a = findService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked va= lid, the location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be ext= ended to include additional location information specific for that location= ." To: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a f= indService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked val= id,. tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be e= xtended to include additional location information specific for that locati= on." 7. Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in= Section 3. 8. Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., c= hange Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2). Regards, Terry Reese CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. --_000_FBD5AAFFD0978846BF6D3FAB4C892ACC397E4E85SEAEXMB2telecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Terry:

Thanks for your carefu= l review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01.  We will soon update= the draft to take into account these editorial changes.<= /p>

 

-roger.

 

From: Theresa = Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM
To: Roger Marshall; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01

 

I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01= and consider this document to describe a useful capability. 

 

During my review, I identified the following NITS:

 

1.     &= nbsp; The word “a” is missing from the last s= entence of the abstract.

 

Proposed change:

From: “These two ty= pes of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete locat= ion" or "similar location", and are included as compilation = of ca type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.”

 

To:  “These tw= o types of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete l= ocation" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca type xml= elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.&#= 8221;

 

2.     &= nbsp; There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtyp= e is presented throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses “ca t= ype”; Section 2 uses “CAtype”; Section 3 uses “caTy= pe” and “CAtype”; Section 8 usese “CAtype).  T= he term should be presented consistently throughout the document.

 

3.     &= nbsp; Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Loc= ation in Section 2

 

Proposed change:

From: “. . . to des= ignates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The example used within .= .  .”

 

To:  “. . . to= designates a place within a= defined grid or basemap,. The example used within . .  .”

 

4.     &= nbsp; Need to add periods at the end of the definitions f= or:  Civic Location, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Sect= ion 2, for consistency with the other definitions.

 

5.     &= nbsp; The word “of” is missing from Section 3= , paragraph 2, third sentence:

 

Proposed change:

From:   “= As an example, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be us= ed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a mun= icipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”

 

To:  “As an ex= ample, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be used to de= fine a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a municip= al location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”=

 

6.     &= nbsp; Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, thir= d sentence

 

Proposed change:

From: “In a valid l= ocation response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService request= that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid, the location i= nformation in the findServiceResponse message MAY be extended to include additional location information specific for th= at location.”

 

To:  “In a val= id location response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService req= uest that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid,.  tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MA= Y be extended to include additional location information specific for that = location.”

 

7.     &= nbsp; Replace the colon with a period at the end of the l= ast sentence in Section 3.

 

8.     &= nbsp; Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Sec= tion 4 (i.e., change Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section = 4.2).

 

 

Regards,

Terry Reese

<= meta content=3D"TX_HTML32 11.0.211.501" name=3DGENERATOR>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained= in this message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the = intended recipient, or responsible for delivering this message to the inten= ded recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copyi= ng of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If yo= u have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately= , and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network.<= /p>=0A --_000_FBD5AAFFD0978846BF6D3FAB4C892ACC397E4E85SEAEXMB2telecom_-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 10:40:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A451B2ADA; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Barry Leiba" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203184055.16546.56548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 10:40:55 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 18:40:56 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I note that the reference to 5687 was moved to informative in -04. I think the fact that it's used as the reference for privacy and security considerations leads to its being normative, as it originally was. But, really, I think the right fix for that is to change the phrases in Sections 8 and 9 that say "beyond those already described in [RFC5687]" to instead say "beyond those already described in [RFC5985]". I think using the security aspects of the base HELD protocol as the basic considerations for this extension is the right thing. Comments? From nobody Thu Feb 4 00:13:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0C31A1B28; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:13:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cGd56J62rSbY; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1C3D1A1B24; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id n128so36757338pfn.3; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:13:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=PGbmpx3wS043pLrl4fvmD8HcU2V1T5F3ftV90EiyDao=; b=SFXupgBaaCoKzO9Bd/ZhurYCT2glgk5HQvmDDIEv+SKCWJQdV76xZfuchIikJZQ8m4 I2HZP91zFEBx4j52w2+c7A5cTdzhZVv6yK1OwFWsqDVY99MBemuZcsEaxOHe12lJ0Aw7 gi4M29tnO9qXY+acpng40L2Rca34LZt7gO3Im+6hWjCu9pF71gRIfeo5+zaiGCQn2KYv He05V7+zMUjxlg7TO8XUVmRQmfbplj88rO3fkfxgL8Or/WPZvtzf3ufLR6vBJGd36EXa 7K3Y8AJUXJxezuyy7REjv8anhri6Pr+F7HdsY1OH+IWki26/7FtmyxocKRGLhe++FDuF L3ZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=PGbmpx3wS043pLrl4fvmD8HcU2V1T5F3ftV90EiyDao=; b=jaGZGptjwrKOFKw2hhRMlNnEsH/pkNoQZtiSnd2lCI/9HfugvfSGfPAgY7D36P9DJd 1eet9VJob101g1dwMJsnbfZIgA2e1ggJEckRqtDn50JGc2z3MpXoqnl8Do81v2/I2D7+ 3kB5afFn2RU63zikmXyfbhx0IoRQyOdwQDDwrtUN6QESDkoVN6ls2OhhkrmAhv7xt5Bi QL/JXgpP3tGVWGWpBJF2320/HKcE5WhGqh7it24dxyrvQiRtZi55S2HAMwxsYuUwgHrE Cfmr+szbYLgg7c2P6y2Gi78OkL5WKzLUbPGX+jZxZ2O19ojacCcNAgcBjLmLhDEVfQEz quiA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORslxsc0KkMpj5yMXzRA7iq+P7+VHhkw0cMLnB4T9wlHsoy25ViuvZsHwgRXi+k0w== X-Received: by 10.66.153.11 with SMTP id vc11mr8988982pab.42.1454573608382; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([1.144.7.253]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dg12sm14854838pac.47.2016.02.04.00.13.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:13:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_15D22743-048D-4561-B5E1-27AA904B56E1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <20160203184055.16546.56548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 19:13:22 +1100 Message-Id: <4D7C3193-AC6B-4923-A19A-D6A09B4ABE74@gmail.com> References: <20160203184055.16546.56548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Barry Leiba X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, The IESG , ecrit@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:13:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_15D22743-048D-4561-B5E1-27AA904B56E1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Barry, Please see inline: > On 4 Feb 2016, at 5:40 am, Barry Leiba = wrote: >=20 > Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I note that the reference to 5687 was moved to informative in -04. I > think the fact that it's used as the reference for privacy and = security > considerations leads to its being normative, as it originally was. = But, > really, I think the right fix for that is to change the phrases in > Sections 8 and 9 that say "beyond those already described in = [RFC5687]" > to instead say "beyond those already described in [RFC5985]". I think > using the security aspects of the base HELD protocol as the basic > considerations for this extension is the right thing. Comments? [AJW] Section 8 Old "This document makes no changes that require privacy considerations = beyond those already described in [RFC5687]. It does however extend = those described in [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D Proposed "This document makes no changes that require privacy = considerations beyond those already described in [RFC5985]. It does = however extend those described in [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D Old "[RFC5687] describes the issues surrounding Layer 7 location = configuration protocols, which this document makes no specific changes = to.=E2=80=9D Proposed =E2=80=9C[RFC5985] describes the privacy considerations = surrounding the HELD location configuration protocol, and this document = makes no specific changes to these considerations.=E2=80=9D [AJW] Section 9 Old "This document imposes no additional security considerations beyond = those already described in [RFC5687] and [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D Proposed =E2=80=9CThis document imposes no additional security = considerations beyond those already described in [RFC5985] and = [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D Given these changes I don=E2=80=99t see much need to move RFC5687 back = into the normative references, do you agree? Cheers James >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_15D22743-048D-4561-B5E1-27AA904B56E1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks Barry,


Please see inline:

On = 4 Feb 2016, at 5:40 am, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote:

Barry Leiba has = entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line = intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To = and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory = paragraph, however.)


Please = refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/=



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

I note that the reference to 5687 = was moved to informative in -04.  I
think the fact = that it's used as the reference for privacy and security
considerations leads to its being normative, as it originally = was.  But,
really, I think the right fix for that is = to change the phrases in
Sections 8 and 9 that say "beyond = those already described in [RFC5687]"
to instead say = "beyond those already described in [RFC5985]".  I think
using the security aspects of the base HELD protocol as the = basic
considerations for this extension is the right = thing.  Comments?

[AJW] = Section 8

Old "This document makes no changes that = require privacy considerations beyond those already described in [RFC5687].  It = does however extend those described in [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D

Proposed "This document makes no = changes that require privacy considerations beyond = those already described in [RFC5985]. =  It does however extend those described in = [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D

Old "[RFC5687] describes the issues surrounding Layer 7 = location configuration protocols, which this document makes no = specific changes= to.=E2=80=9D

Proposed =E2=80=9C[RFC5985] describes = the privacy considerations surrounding the HELD location = configuration protocol, and this document makes no = specific changes to these considerations.=E2=80=9D


[AJW] Section 9

Old "This document = imposes no additional security considerations beyond those already described in = [RFC5687] and [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D

Proposed =E2=80=9CThis document imposes no additional security = considerations beyond those already described in = [RFC5985] and = [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D


Given these changes I don=E2=80=99t see = much need to move RFC5687 back into the normative references, do you = agree?

Cheers
James




= --Apple-Mail=_15D22743-048D-4561-B5E1-27AA904B56E1-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 00:15:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09971A1B24; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VlhSgGEb0nRw; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 032041A1AF0; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id o185so37065156pfb.1; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:15:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=VEFS9TmscaYkfGFpO7EcnkLmZftK07lhjcFL7SiSM3U=; b=hvY/GWiyfwLfAEdTdLe2A05EcUsPXfl7cYSNXar03uTDDZyoOA7OT7CA9alZ2IAtps pkOoqYSdNJxyhLa4r8fR9OaD2nZYEjDqKmQAJaQ8svZpVccQmMBdZ2tOpN0pDo/CM6qC lvYCvEvs83EKIzzF7WHUxWA6Iin8zB6jDLDyUNKVMTiyBXzF052l34OuJBaexBltCum6 BNMIabMB7cQunw/Jiy/QzNxQ1h/tDFLV9UpwPOHByGvOtr3BE5ZEz/HIZ4WIMs0iMMXL QTrnYiRulJ2F4hKljFLsFAENwxjSd8K4zpfF3yEwCWPug7fWpCy2fUz/r8NtCPdr5svC TkVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=VEFS9TmscaYkfGFpO7EcnkLmZftK07lhjcFL7SiSM3U=; b=F0ND+++lXxz6P9zw1iS2sxuwSkf4Qu50wAA8zUVWsqEYn4FCo7GeOlqkeWsZuoMwkI 9cHPrOXG1FT0YWzoeOPTAR47WwZMctwldZC5kT9DQwqYiY/R+sRnEjtSjj1z9dJFAAPO n7c3J5QrWNkarWhwKoL8oTj6Ay9Vp/20eoGqahNwniB73tHhCWudAINByx7D7+Ec93JK YXwKKo/WGrtfbkzYZia4QGbOspAxYIhFsRdkBfexILkkidmiutVqzF2Rct52m+v1Kh5E Cn/fdkF9kAvK9hKhaeGJj2Jyvj72elPAPsKJtYjehW1PeTNZVIyV0xBi0d2FW+QCyfYl 292g== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS+t9lZd8CK6VCFPHzThWXAU5T84mcCli7g5pVOFRl9W1dKXTRSTtX1kU+lL8q9XA== X-Received: by 10.98.68.194 with SMTP id m63mr9068979pfi.153.1454573740719; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([1.144.8.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x10sm14901857pas.37.2016.02.04.00.15.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:15:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <20160203141943.22931.6731.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 19:15:33 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20160203141943.22931.6731.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Brian Haberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org, suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com, The IESG , ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Brian Haberman's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:15:42 -0000 Thanks. Correct, this will be there in the next revision. Cheers James > On 4 Feb 2016, at 1:19 am, Brian Haberman wrote: > > Brian Haberman has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The following is a training review from Suresh Krishnan (incoming INT > AD) > > * Section 7 > > Not using documentation address block for examples. Using RFC1918 space > instead. IANA has allocated 192.0.2.0/24 for documentation use. > > From nobody Thu Feb 4 00:39:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02141A1B88; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:39:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W_i5SXzjOIsC; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com (mail-pf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DB8F1A1B86; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id o185so37719102pfb.1; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:39:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=yRG+Hj5iwqKS9l7LmAM8GmS9CKfM096hpmoemt6dhYI=; b=BTOBVB+3oJGcHKxSuFzDHAVz4NDWOBH4soHskK8PBfGi7OR9OLVLjiR4iAyqAOtFUE PdSBwycsT70q7ZQeAMoX/koaoL4NuSpwttRglVvA5PxmsK5RdXoF7z0X5Uk+oqZvXB4v MFS5TEMcniWziTZ4+yJ4X5oJ5l1diCSclsVq0lEDyuaEQ9KLtdM4TKd3GknTLIS52iTh CVGwh82jSFn4B/wZIbLkYq66T+3YPZS76wMIsg0cxL1ZyKtvgv+8/mrlFGPFgZGUSIDU yTkkOYguB0iX2axg2XkVr/0ZI59r++oHHyQ7uG7xaYmf8kXaNU7iS2wH47MDpHUxynW+ 0H/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=yRG+Hj5iwqKS9l7LmAM8GmS9CKfM096hpmoemt6dhYI=; b=Fm5fpjK5+J/7d8/pDNdBVKgSMJ9Bd0GhMztG7FNT7qvN/99KCvuIjdpV9vRlgff0dU FbmBat2SMitNLPjjaYrcNJvGAUC6kELOLlu4ratO/vNHxUsoN/9jdwHcbjNjcQGhlrSS UCGgXYbrg7DoV9so/vrroTEBEWfZ1bmvecYlXxKg2eghMYRc2T2UBDhaTxD9d9XUPE8m ynuNR1n+xUxssjkfHEi7OrSiNka6T2WYOI3kVDUERbjgCWwdYoBpUYCIRZ6BIvRO0dwk 5tpL3cCV9iZx7XazhF/KennuaeR96YEua0w2ten4anulAQ7HqYzRtZ7e2umE8dEwpMlu T+uQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQ628c1OS0NsDHqUE3O3avGPWi3taKDgSlKh5HYWiEQF2p1fEjVF9X+CBg5T67O/Q== X-Received: by 10.66.236.129 with SMTP id uu1mr9210190pac.158.1454575187805; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([1.144.14.146]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 79sm15216535pfr.22.2016.02.04.00.39.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:39:46 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F9357996-27C5-4BFC-AFBA-85EB4DB981A9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <20160203023945.29944.26379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 19:39:41 +1100 Message-Id: <4BC272EC-2724-45DF-AFAF-A16EAB3EE0BF@gmail.com> References: <20160203023945.29944.26379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, The IESG , ecrit@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:39:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F9357996-27C5-4BFC-AFBA-85EB4DB981A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Ben, Please inline: >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > There is some confusion about whether this draft updates 6881. The > headers and section 5 say it does, but the abstract does not. (Since = the > abstract _does_ mention 5985, I assume the authors intended to follow = the > convention of mentioning such things in the abstract.) [AJW] I have clarified this, I hope, by adding the following sentence to = the end of the abstract: =E2=80=9CAllowing location and routing information to be acquired in a = single request response exchange requires updates to RFC6881, as = current location acquisition and route determination=20 procedures are separate operations." >=20 > It would be nice to have a sentence or two on why some countries are > reluctant to deploy public LoST servers. (I recognize there may be too > many worms in that can, so feel free to ignore.) [AJW] Are you looking for bait to go fishing with? In the conversations = I have been involved in the blunt line is =E2=80=9Cwe are not going to = do it=E2=80=9D. The reality, I think, are commercial and competition = related. I would rather not add this to the document unless there are = strong reasons for doing so. >=20 > - section 5, 2nd paragraph: > I don't understand the 2nd sentence. It seems like this updates 6881 = or > it doesn=E2=80=99t. [AJW] Agree, this was not very readable at all. Old : "In absence of global forest guides or local LoST servers and the = possibility that the local network may be configured with PSAP address = information, this specification updates Phone BCP [RFC6881]=E2=80=9D. Proposed: "An alternative to providing routing information via global = forest guides or local LoST servers is for local networks to configure = the PSAP address information in the network location server. This = specification updates Phone BCP [RFC6881] to provide this option. Cheers James >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_F9357996-27C5-4BFC-AFBA-85EB4DB981A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks Ben,

Please inline:



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

There is some confusion about = whether this draft updates 6881. The
headers and section 5 = say it does, but the abstract does not. (Since the
abstract = _does_ mention 5985, I assume the authors intended to follow the
convention of mentioning such things in the abstract.)
[AJW] I have clarified this, I hope, by adding the = following sentence to the end of the = abstract:

=E2=80=9CAllowing location and routing = information to be acquired in a single request response = exchange requires updates to RFC6881,  as current location acquisition and route = determination 
 procedures are separate operations."



It would be nice to have a sentence or two on = why some countries are
reluctant to deploy public LoST = servers. (I recognize there may be too
many worms in that = can, so feel free to ignore.)
[AJW] Are you looking for = bait to go fishing with? In the conversations I have been involved in = the blunt line is =E2=80=9Cwe are not going to do it=E2=80=9D. The = reality, I think, are commercial and competition related. I would rather = not add this to the document unless there are strong reasons for doing = so.



- section 5, 2nd = paragraph:
I don't understand the 2nd sentence. It seems = like this updates 6881 or
it doesn=E2=80=99t.
[AJW] Agree, this was not very readable at = all.

Old : "In = absence of global forest guides or local LoST servers and the possibility that the local network may be configured with = PSAP address information, this specification = updates Phone BCP [RFC6881]=E2=80=9D.

Proposed: = "An = alternative to providing routing information via global forest guides = or local LoST servers is for local networks to configure the PSAP = address  information in the network location server. This = specification updates Phone BCP [RFC6881] to provide this option.

Cheers
James





= --Apple-Mail=_F9357996-27C5-4BFC-AFBA-85EB4DB981A9-- From nobody Thu Feb 4 02:58:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1701ACDA9; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 02:58:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160204105828.12559.7287.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 02:58:28 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:58:28 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A detail but since I spent time writing it while performing my review, here it is. Sure, I should know about all the references before reading this document, but simply things such as expanding the first acronym occurences facilitates the reading. Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) Location-to-Service Translation (LoST) Ah. Now, I arrive to section 2, where I see those... From nobody Thu Feb 4 04:38:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4A41B2E2F; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 04:38:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160204123825.15889.18278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 04:38:25 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:38:25 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- section 4: The optional service URN seems like a thing where it could be dangerous to be over-general, and where being specific to emergency calling services would be a good restriction. I would not like "service=urn:advertising" to be something that'd work here. (At least not without consideration of how that could be used for ad blocking:-) The registry from RFC5031 does however seem to control that correctly (via standards action or ECRIT WG/IESG review) so I think it'd be better here to say that the service URN MUST be in that specific registry. If that is already in the text that's fine, but I didn't read it as quite having that MUST. From nobody Thu Feb 4 05:31:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C191B2F22; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:31:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZdhwEHgx_a4; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x230.google.com (mail-io0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9F891B2F20; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x230.google.com with SMTP id f81so92165876iof.0; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 05:31:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JSz29nVTEW0zPpL2bn4LWfiyK18NagpoRinEyAuJf7w=; b=RddEG8UcLLgnXRBv/OJ7Addoen/SrmIuIl5dD3js6Q1dpjRVga5zVZkg1BbCfRidr7 m+mWwX+00rZhg5jzBvQjaV6kyaGPQrVNczGt9Y9Z/zQpp2+9ievLfmspAozxb8XY3i5v DR9maqBfzwly7MRFEij9bbKRsO0LSh/DA8eSVUXQxOHpQxuQbVsF/e0lny6io2lR+soT 9yOpsTWWf5Ow5BAj+U+4MmYDCrwMAZwc2vM7vOzjuONpvH9ICzB37pSGf8+DlPoLSNMJ xK7myTNFW1I1Co/JReNkOr2+UVJPnFKVROJYwj/MiOdJw/NXS128uFWSiiJzp+JTm8Ce hUwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JSz29nVTEW0zPpL2bn4LWfiyK18NagpoRinEyAuJf7w=; b=j+FczL0WmpeNS/TD1GDKxrktrfX+HoYmLN8A10hrwZ/SldJFEYRnOPdqIkgBkNM2cQ 5shy602kOuGQzy85X5YaehlgdsYgE02XElWrSZt2lRUPjVLsaWc9Q61Modxf20Pbw/Id uAEF3HasM9ZcInQpzH+14LJwnxbM1U0PIVeGt+J5x8x0JRB6wiHlEGsP8K7ZNc6uEyiQ QpGy5RDiWrK+FmjL/Vwc4pDFW5rNK86FAVdJzmn++ZCDvv3sGT0NHBon2KP856x451FV yJ+tqThqteoeTdzHZWHRtQSQfLIAcpM1MM/HdzZ1WEypvyMNj8wW2zsXlnSmvaa8VpFt vsIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQ8zRUU8+pxgeFSTa5T8eN362Syg778Kja5aPQpiymjmDLh3BI6yE3CaW5bQwJilSQTUaCBNkXdRslBXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.5.209 with SMTP id 200mr8893397iof.193.1454592688302; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 05:31:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.36.156.5 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 05:31:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D7C3193-AC6B-4923-A19A-D6A09B4ABE74@gmail.com> References: <20160203184055.16546.56548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7C3193-AC6B-4923-A19A-D6A09B4ABE74@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 08:31:28 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: v121vlDJbF7iXCrhbsQOTcHHhqM Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: James Winterbottom Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 13:31:32 -0000 Yes, that's a fine change, and thanks. Barry On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 3:13 AM, James Winterbottom wrote: > Thanks Barry, > > Please see inline: > > On 4 Feb 2016, at 5:40 am, Barry Leiba wrote: > > Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I note that the reference to 5687 was moved to informative in -04. I > think the fact that it's used as the reference for privacy and security > considerations leads to its being normative, as it originally was. But, > really, I think the right fix for that is to change the phrases in > Sections 8 and 9 that say "beyond those already described in [RFC5687]" > to instead say "beyond those already described in [RFC5985]". I think > using the security aspects of the base HELD protocol as the basic > considerations for this extension is the right thing. Comments? > > > [AJW] Section 8 > > Old "This document makes no changes that require privacy considerations > beyond those already described in [RFC5687]. It does however extend thos= e > described in [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D > > Proposed "This document makes no changes that require privacy considerati= ons > beyond those already described in [RFC5985]. It does however extend thos= e > described in [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D > > Old "[RFC5687] describes the issues surrounding Layer 7 location > configuration protocols, which this document makes no specific changes to= .=E2=80=9D > > Proposed =E2=80=9C[RFC5985] describes the privacy considerations surround= ing the > HELD location configuration protocol, and this document makes no specific > changes to these considerations.=E2=80=9D > > > [AJW] Section 9 > > Old "This document imposes no additional security considerations beyond > those already described in [RFC5687] and [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D > > Proposed =E2=80=9CThis document imposes no additional security considerat= ions beyond > those already described in [RFC5985] and [RFC6155].=E2=80=9D > > > Given these changes I don=E2=80=99t see much need to move RFC5687 back in= to the > normative references, do you agree? > > Cheers > James > > > > From nobody Thu Feb 4 06:55:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EED01B30BA; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 06:55:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ueXWke7dmLTv; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 06:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9BF01B30B7; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 06:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u14EswRB074418 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Feb 2016 08:54:59 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "James Winterbottom" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:54:59 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4BC272EC-2724-45DF-AFAF-A16EAB3EE0BF@gmail.com> References: <20160203023945.29944.26379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4BC272EC-2724-45DF-AFAF-A16EAB3EE0BF@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5213) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Ben Campbell's Yes on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:55:05 -0000 On 4 Feb 2016, at 2:39, James Winterbottom wrote: [...] >> >> It would be nice to have a sentence or two on why some countries are >> reluctant to deploy public LoST servers. (I recognize there may be >> too >> many worms in that can, so feel free to ignore.) > [AJW] Are you looking for bait to go fishing with? In the > conversations I have been involved in the blunt line is “we are not > going to do it”. The reality, I think, are commercial and > competition related. I would rather not add this to the document > unless there are strong reasons for doing so. Yeah, okay. I guess I'm just picking at old wounds hoping something different comes up :-) > > >> >> - section 5, 2nd paragraph: >> I don't understand the 2nd sentence. It seems like this updates 6881 >> or >> it doesn’t. > [AJW] Agree, this was not very readable at all. > > Old : "In absence of global forest guides or local LoST servers and > the possibility that the local network may be configured with PSAP > address information, this specification updates Phone BCP > [RFC6881]”. > > Proposed: "An alternative to providing routing information via global > forest guides or local LoST servers is for local networks to configure > the PSAP address information in the network location server. This > specification updates Phone BCP [RFC6881] to provide this option. > That works for me. Thanks! Ben. From nobody Fri Feb 5 09:53:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6017B1A0027 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:53:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nlRFdmlpTa0T for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.ndaco.org (mail.ndaco.org [66.97.230.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EE551A0024 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394]) by ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:53:17 -0600 From: Jason Horning To: Roger Marshall , "Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFejKu3um/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggADEqbwAGjqMcA= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:53:15 +0000 Message-ID: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFF@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.131.175] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFFACO54MAILndacoo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:53:22 -0000 --_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFFACO54MAILndacoo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it is important that this draft move forward. As it stands, LoST i= s not particularly helpful when it comes to validating addresses. One question that I do have is what happens when dozens (i.e. an apartment)= or hundreds (office complex) of potential complete or similar location can= didates are found by the LoST server. Is there an expectation that all com= plete or similar locations with the same level of completeness or similarit= y are returned? Jason From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Marshall Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:40 AM To: 'Theresa Reese'; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Terry: Thanks for your careful review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01. We= will soon update the draft to take into account these editorial changes. -roger. From: Theresa Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM To: Roger Marshall; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and consider this docu= ment to describe a useful capability. During my review, I identified the following NITS: 1. The word "a" is missing from the last sentence of the abstract. Proposed change: From: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "compl= ete location" or "similar location", and are included as compilation of ca = type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message stru= cture." To: "These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "comple= te location" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca= type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message str= ucture." 2. There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented = throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses "ca type"; Section 2 uses = "CAtype"; Section 3 uses "caType" and "CAtype"; Section 8 usese "CAtype). = The term should be presented consistently throughout the document. 3. Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Sectio= n 2 Proposed change: From: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The ex= ample used within . . ." To: ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap,. The ex= ample used within . . ." 4. Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for: Civic Loca= tion, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consisten= cy with the other definitions. 5. The word "of" is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, third senten= ce: Proposed change: From: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could b= e used to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." To: "As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could be u= sed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call." 6. Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence Proposed change: From: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a = findService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked va= lid, the location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be ext= ended to include additional location information specific for that location= ." To: "In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a f= indService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked val= id,. tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be e= xtended to include additional location information specific for that locati= on." 7. Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in= Section 3. 8. Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., c= hange Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2). Regards, Terry Reese CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. --_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFFACO54MAILndacoo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think it is important that this draft move forward= .  As it stands, LoST is not particularly helpful when it comes to val= idating addresses.

 

One question that I do have is what happens when doz= ens (i.e. an apartment) or hundreds (office complex) of potential complete = or similar location candidates are found by the LoST server.  Is there= an expectation that all complete or similar locations with the same level of completeness or similarity are returned?<= o:p>

 

Jason

 

 

From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Marshall
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:40 AM
To: 'Theresa Reese'; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01<= o:p>

 

Terry:

Thanks for your carefu= l review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01.  We will soon update= the draft to take into account these editorial changes.<= /p>

 

-roger.

 

From: Theresa = Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@e= ricsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM
To: Roger Marshall; Brian= .Rosen@neustar.biz
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01

 

I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01= and consider this document to describe a useful capability. 

 

During my review, I identified the following NITS:

 

1.       The word “a” is missing from the last sentence of the ab= stract.

 

Proposed change:

From: “These two ty= pes of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete locat= ion" or "similar location", and are included as compilation = of ca type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.”

 

To:  “These tw= o types of civic addresses are referred to as either  "complete l= ocation" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca type xml= elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message structure.&#= 8221;

 

2.       There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented th= roughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses “ca type”; Secti= on 2 uses “CAtype”; Section 3 uses “caType” and = 220;CAtype”; Section 8 usese “CAtype).  The term should be= presented consistently throughout the document.

 

3.       Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Section = 2

 

Proposed change:

From: “. . . to des= ignates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The example used within .= .  .”

 

To:  “. . . to= designates a place within a= defined grid or basemap,= . The example used within . .  .”

 

4.       Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for:  Civic L= ocation, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consis= tency with the other definitions.

 

5.       The word “of” is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, th= ird sentence:

 

Proposed change:

From:   “= As an example, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be us= ed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a mun= icipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”

 

To:  “As an ex= ample, there are LoST civic  address elements that could be used to de= fine a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a municip= al location suitable for responding to an emergency call.”=

 

6.       Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence

 

Proposed change:

From: “In a valid l= ocation response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService request= that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid, the location i= nformation in the findServiceResponse message MAY be extended to include additional location information specific for th= at location.”

 

To:  “In a val= id location response, a LoST server returns a response to a findService req= uest that contains a set of civic address elements marked valid,.  tThe location information in the findServiceResponse mes= sage MAY be extended to include additional location information specific fo= r that location.”

 

7.       Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in S= ection 3.

 

8.       Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., cha= nge Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2).<= /p>

 

 

Regards,

Terry Reese

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this messa= ge may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recip= ient, or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying = of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you h= ave received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately, a= nd delete it and all attachments from your computer and network.

--_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFFACO54MAILndacoo_-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 11:54:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A931AC435 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2sYNS2cozT8Y for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 290781AC42F for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049401.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049401.ppops.net-0018ba01. (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u15Jr50b025154; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:54:00 -0500 Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by m0049401.ppops.net-0018ba01. with ESMTP id 20vup2gpkx-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:54:00 -0500 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.133]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.23]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:53:59 -0500 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: Jason Horning , Roger Marshall Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFejKu3um/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggADEqbwAGjqMcAABJSEAA== Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 19:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFF@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> In-Reply-To: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFF@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.8.151023 x-originating-ip: [10.33.193.8] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D2DA6790CC9C5brianrosenneustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-02-05_08:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 19:54:08 -0000 --_000_D2DA6790CC9C5brianrosenneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3Lg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgb3VnaHQgdG8gbGlt aXQgaG93IG1hbnkgb3B0aW9ucyBpdCBzZW5kcyB0byBhIGNvdXBsZS4gIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgY291 bGQgYWRkIHdvcmRzIHRvIHRoYXQgZWZmZWN0LiAgSXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gcHJv dmlkZSBhIHdheSBmb3IgdGhlIGNsaWVudCB0byBzcGVjaWZ5IHRoZSBtYXggbnVtYmVyIG9mIHZh 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hD56MPARczkk for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.ndaco.org (mail.ndaco.org [66.97.230.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B0311ACE9E for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394]) by ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:28:04 -0600 From: Jason Horning To: "Rosen, Brian" , Roger Marshall Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFejKu3um/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggADEqbwAGjqMcAABJSEAAAAMR8Q Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:28:03 +0000 Message-ID: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222458330@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> References: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222457CFF@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.131.175] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222458330ACO54MAILndacoo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:28:08 -0000 --_000_98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222458330ACO54MAILndacoo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SWYgYSBjbGllbnQgcHJvdmlkZXMgYSBwaHlzaWNhbCBhZGRyZXNzIGZvciBhbiBhcGFydG1lbnQg 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ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EE61ACE2F for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:58:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_61=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zAwpQYR_rXEp for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:58:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.geo-comm.com (mail.geo-comm.com [38.92.142.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C8A31A8724 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:58:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from EXCHANGE10.geo-comm.local ([::1]) by EXCHANGE10.geo-comm.local ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:58:29 -0600 From: Brooks Shannon To: "jason.horning@ndaco.org" , "Rosen, Brian (Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz)" , "RMarshall@telecomsys.com" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QA3HXImxxTTb2+MM23xQ5eUg== Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:58:29 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-vipre-scanned: 5388385A00B798538839A7 x-ninja-pim: Scanned by Ninja x-ninja-attachmentfiltering: (no action) x-originating-ip: [73.5.145.239] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:58:36 -0000 Jason, I agree with you and Brian - it definitely makes sense for a LoST server to= limit the number of suggested/complete addresses that it returns. Even a = few dozen will become difficult for a human to process. Any more than a ha= ndful would indicate to me that the address I am validating has some defini= te issues, which would cause me to investigate its accuracy and probably tr= y validating a few different variations of it as I investigate the problem.= (That's basically what I do when using GIS data editing applications to d= etermine why an address won't geocode; I 'play around' with the values unti= l I learn what's wrong with my address or I dive deeper and start looking f= or GIS data errors.) I'm not sure that there is a lot of value in allowing a client to specify t= he max number of results to return. Rather I see much more value in simply= allowing the LVF to return some indication that it found too many possible= candidates and the returned set is truncated due to that. Thanks! Brooks Brooks T. Shannon | Senior Product Manager Geo-Comm, Inc. | www.geo-comm.com 601 W. Saint Germain St., St. Cloud, MN 56301 Office: 320.240.0040 or 888.436.2666 Fax: 320.240.2389=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ecrit-request@ietf= .org Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:28 PM To: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Ecrit Digest, Vol 133, Issue 7 Send Ecrit mailing list submissions to ecrit@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ecrit-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at ecrit-owner@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "R= e: Contents of Ecrit digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 (Jason Horning) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:28:03 +0000 From: Jason Horning To: "Rosen, Brian" , Roger Marshall Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Message-ID: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222458330@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" If a client provides a physical address for an apartment building but no su= b-address for the individual unit, a server may be inclined to send back co= mplete locations for all 36 units in the apartment building. That would pr= obably be helpful as long as the list doesn?t get too unwieldy. For exampl= e, it probably wouldn?t be helpful in the case of ?One World Trade Center? = where thousands of complete locations may exist. The thing I?m trying to determine is what the value of the extension would = be in examples that are more difficult than a single family home scenario. = In those complex cases is it any more helpful than the LoST protocol as it= currently exists? Maybe it?s worth sending a message to the client that too many similar/comp= lete results were found? From: Rosen, Brian [mailto:Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz] Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 1:54 PM To: Jason Horning; Roger Marshall Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thanks for the review. I think the server ought to limit how many options it sends to a couple. I= think we could add words to that effect. It might be possible to provide = a way for the client to specify the max number of valid possibilities it ge= ts, but I think that isn?t worth the complexity. Brian From: Jason Horning > Date: Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:53 AM To: Roger Marshall >, Brian Rosen > Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I think it is important that this draft move forward. As it stands, LoST i= s not particularly helpful when it comes to validating addresses. One question that I do have is what happens when dozens (i.e. an apartment)= or hundreds (office complex) of potential complete or similar location can= didates are found by the LoST server. Is there an expectation that all com= plete or similar locations with the same level of completeness or similarit= y are returned? Jason From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Marshall Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:40 AM To: 'Theresa Reese'; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Terry: Thanks for your careful review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01. We= will soon update the draft to take into account these editorial changes. -roger. From: Theresa Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM To: Roger Marshall; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and consider this docu= ment to describe a useful capability. During my review, I identified the following NITS: 1. The word ?a? is missing from the last sentence of the abstract. Proposed change: From: ?These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "compl= ete location" or "similar location", and are included as compilation of ca = type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message stru= cture.? To: ?These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "comple= te location" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca= type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message str= ucture.? 2. There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented = throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses ?ca type?; Section 2 uses = ?CAtype?; Section 3 uses ?caType? and ?CAtype?; Section 8 usese ?CAtype). = The term should be presented consistently throughout the document. 3. Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Sectio= n 2 Proposed change: From: ?. . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The ex= ample used within . . .? To: ?. . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap,. The ex= ample used within . . .? 4. Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for: Civic Loca= tion, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consisten= cy with the other definitions. 5. The word ?of? is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, third senten= ce: Proposed change: From: ?As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could b= e used to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.? To: ?As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could be u= sed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.? 6. Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence Proposed change: From: ?In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a = findService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked va= lid, the location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be ext= ended to include additional location information specific for that location= .? To: ?In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a f= indService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked val= id,. tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be e= xtended to include additional location information specific for that locati= on.? 7. Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in= Section 3. 8. Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., c= hange Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2). Regards, Terry Reese CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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[124.171.30.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n84sm26559865pfa.45.2016.02.05.13.27.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:27:09 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_34606BDF-2A99-4C66-B872-74EED08D4DC3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 08:27:04 +1100 Message-Id: References: To: Brooks Shannon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "Rosen, Brian \(Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz\)" , "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:27:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_34606BDF-2A99-4C66-B872-74EED08D4DC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All, It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a = good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at all). When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are = talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? Cheers James > On 6 Feb 2016, at 7:58 am, Brooks Shannon = wrote: >=20 > Jason, >=20 > I agree with you and Brian - it definitely makes sense for a LoST = server to limit the number of suggested/complete addresses that it = returns. Even a few dozen will become difficult for a human to process. = Any more than a handful would indicate to me that the address I am = validating has some definite issues, which would cause me to investigate = its accuracy and probably try validating a few different variations of = it as I investigate the problem. (That's basically what I do when using = GIS data editing applications to determine why an address won't geocode; = I 'play around' with the values until I learn what's wrong with my = address or I dive deeper and start looking for GIS data errors.) >=20 > I'm not sure that there is a lot of value in allowing a client to = specify the max number of results to return. Rather I see much more = value in simply allowing the LVF to return some indication that it found = too many possible candidates and the returned set is truncated due to = that. >=20 > Thanks! > Brooks >=20 > Brooks T. Shannon | Senior Product Manager > Geo-Comm, Inc. | www.geo-comm.com > 601 W. Saint Germain St., St. Cloud, MN 56301 > Office: 320.240.0040 or 888.436.2666 Fax: 320.240.2389=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_34606BDF-2A99-4C66-B872-74EED08D4DC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the = returned number of entities is a good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like = the concept of the draft at all).
When we are down = to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are talking dispatch, = when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street number is = actually as fine a grain as we need to go?

Cheers
James

On 6 Feb 2016, at 7:58 am, Brooks Shannon = <bshannon@geo-comm.com> wrote:

Jason,

I agree with you and Brian - it definitely makes = sense for a LoST server to limit the number of suggested/complete = addresses that it returns.  Even a few dozen will become difficult = for a human to process.  Any more than a handful would indicate to = me that the address I am validating has some definite issues, which = would cause me to investigate its accuracy and probably try validating a = few different variations of it as I investigate the problem. =  (That's basically what I do when using GIS data editing = applications to determine why an address won't geocode; I 'play around' = with the values until I learn what's wrong with my address or I dive = deeper and start looking for GIS data errors.)

I'm not sure that there is a lot of value in = allowing a client to specify the max number of results to return. =  Rather I see much more value in simply allowing the LVF to return = some indication that it found too many possible candidates and the = returned set is truncated due to that.

Thanks!
Brooks

Brooks T. Shannon | Senior Product = Manager
Geo-Comm, Inc. | www.geo-comm.com
601 W. Saint Germain St., St. Cloud, MN = 56301
Office: 320.240.0040 or = 888.436.2666 Fax: 320.240.2389 


= --Apple-Mail=_34606BDF-2A99-4C66-B872-74EED08D4DC3-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 13:41:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBCE1AD49D for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_61=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rf8DPV90FdAa for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.ndaco.org (mail.ndaco.org [66.97.230.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C90E51B2D09 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394]) by ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:40:56 -0600 From: Jason Horning To: James Winterbottom Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QAum/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggANhAMA//+fwK0= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 21:40:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Rosen, Brian \(Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz\)" , "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:40:59 -0000 not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when pre-validatin= g addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough resolution. no gu= arantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where else would the dispa= tch level resolution come from? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom > wrote: Hi All, It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a go= od plan (I still don=92t like the concept of the draft at all). When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are tal= king dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street numb= er is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? Cheers James On 6 Feb 2016, at 7:58 am, Brooks Shannon > wrote: Jason, I agree with you and Brian - it definitely makes sense for a LoST server to= limit the number of suggested/complete addresses that it returns. Even a = few dozen will become difficult for a human to process. Any more than a ha= ndful would indicate to me that the address I am validating has some defini= te issues, which would cause me to investigate its accuracy and probably tr= y validating a few different variations of it as I investigate the problem.= (That's basically what I do when using GIS data editing applications to d= etermine why an address won't geocode; I 'play around' with the values unti= l I learn what's wrong with my address or I dive deeper and start looking f= or GIS data errors.) I'm not sure that there is a lot of value in allowing a client to specify t= he max number of results to return. Rather I see much more value in simply= allowing the LVF to return some indication that it found too many possible= candidates and the returned set is truncated due to that. Thanks! Brooks Brooks T. Shannon | Senior Product Manager Geo-Comm, Inc. | www.geo-comm.com 601 W. Saint Germain St., St. Cloud, MN 56301 Office: 320.240.0040 or 888.436.2666 Fax: 320.240.2389 -----Original Message----- From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ecrit-request@ietf= .org Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 2:28 PM To: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Ecrit Digest, Vol 133, Issue 7 Send Ecrit mailing list submissions to ecrit@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ecrit-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at ecrit-owner@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "R= e: Contents of Ecrit digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 (Jason Horning) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 20:28:03 +0000 From: Jason Horning > To: "Rosen, Brian" = >, Roger Marshall > Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Message-ID: <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B222458330@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" If a client provides a physical address for an apartment building but no su= b-address for the individual unit, a server may be inclined to send back co= mplete locations for all 36 units in the apartment building. That would pr= obably be helpful as long as the list doesn?t get too unwieldy. For exampl= e, it probably wouldn?t be helpful in the case of ?One World Trade Center? = where thousands of complete locations may exist. The thing I?m trying to determine is what the value of the extension would = be in examples that are more difficult than a single family home scenario. = In those complex cases is it any more helpful than the LoST protocol as it= currently exists? Maybe it?s worth sending a message to the client that too many similar/comp= lete results were found? From: Rosen, Brian [mailto:Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz] Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 1:54 PM To: Jason Horning; Roger Marshall Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thanks for the review. I think the server ought to limit how many options it sends to a couple. I= think we could add words to that effect. It might be possible to provide = a way for the client to specify the max number of valid possibilities it ge= ts, but I think that isn?t worth the complexity. Brian From: Jason Horning > Date: Friday, February 5, 2016 at 11:53 AM To: Roger Marshall >, Brian Rosen > Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I think it is important that this draft move forward. As it stands, LoST i= s not particularly helpful when it comes to validating addresses. One question that I do have is what happens when dozens (i.e. an apartment)= or hundreds (office complex) of potential complete or similar location can= didates are found by the LoST server. Is there an expectation that all com= plete or similar locations with the same level of completeness or similarit= y are returned? Jason From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roger Marshall Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:40 AM To: 'Theresa Reese'; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Terry: Thanks for your careful review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01. We= will soon update the draft to take into account these editorial changes. -roger. From: Theresa Reese [mailto:theresa.reese@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 7:29 AM To: Roger Marshall; Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz= Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and consider this docu= ment to describe a useful capability. During my review, I identified the following NITS: 1. The word ?a? is missing from the last sentence of the abstract. Proposed change: From: ?These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "compl= ete location" or "similar location", and are included as compilation of ca = type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message stru= cture.? To: ?These two types of civic addresses are referred to as either "comple= te location" or "similar location", and are included as a compilation of ca= type xml elements within the existing LoST findServiceResponse message str= ucture.? 2. There is an inconsistency in the way the term CAtype is presented = throughout the document (i.e., the Abstract uses ?ca type?; Section 2 uses = ?CAtype?; Section 3 uses ?caType? and ?CAtype?; Section 8 usese ?CAtype). = The term should be presented consistently throughout the document. 3. Fix the punctuation in the definition for Civic Location in Sectio= n 2 Proposed change: From: ?. . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap, The ex= ample used within . . .? To: ?. . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap,. The ex= ample used within . . .? 4. Need to add periods at the end of the definitions for: Civic Loca= tion, Civic Address Element, Invalid, and Valid in Section 2, for consisten= cy with the other definitions. 5. The word ?of? is missing from Section 3, paragraph 2, third senten= ce: Proposed change: From: ?As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could b= e used to define a postal location, suitable for delivery mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.? To: ?As an example, there are LoST civic address elements that could be u= sed to define a postal location, suitable for delivery of mail as well as a= municipal location suitable for responding to an emergency call.? 6. Fix the punctuation in Section 3, paragraph 6, third sentence Proposed change: From: ?In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a = findService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked va= lid, the location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be ext= ended to include additional location information specific for that location= .? To: ?In a valid location response, a LoST server returns a response to a f= indService request that contains a set of civic address elements marked val= id,. tThe location information in the findServiceResponse message MAY be e= xtended to include additional location information specific for that locati= on.? 7. Replace the colon with a period at the end of the last sentence in= Section 3. 8. Consider making Sections 5 and 6 subsections of Section 4 (i.e., c= hange Section 5 to Section 4.1; change Section 6 to Section 4.2). Regards, Terry Reese CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be pr= ivileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or res= ponsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,= forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication o= r any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this messa= ge in error, please notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all at= tachments from your computer and network. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From nobody Fri Feb 5 13:55:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A937F1B2DD7 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:55:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lFEhDSdCr4A0 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 189CD1B2DD6 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-x233.google.com with SMTP id cy9so40501801pac.0 for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:55:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=b7FjBUhK9+R1kPt52ZsWOsgnIN+NONn2fts/2oILfDM=; b=S7cl/6MMaz6B+4KqBnB6JsE/JTYVHSfwgCBS3yiO/JSBWV8rPLPa+GhuLgcYbssvmP +35u9Wf0horK+F7omGIlfJQsc2w0EO+bftxzpEmEsuW3gyEyKrFbCrVTtdstZ9AJI2qR jea7m1KPrvyu08GXCykCBGlYJJ//Zdv1r81XGh98odq8zc1mIfWY39ijHUSKA8uOoELU xk74X7eNYCGSPTNW8Jt9ci4wfaeM/HrlpbEO9Ubl/8U3iVR6UDJyGhVlrNWdHQVlxP/c yFFtdwl7L36lG22NKuWSV0YFL9zQ+9ci39GpRn6w1z28QFPjQKCzYxTmYdhaOPitV3QR fwTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=b7FjBUhK9+R1kPt52ZsWOsgnIN+NONn2fts/2oILfDM=; b=ZEOTEv96aT5T0Y2SnKnfrHHoxaKOFJSN76p8TZ56WE81Tm6fLKfqEyR3Ke8nZhLnFY tGqNRkwE37vpA4IJnZpmHVt2vOBTeXe61ebherkXsxbe6VIUvTLMx+sgABOgYSsNttN0 SBOF/MH/yr0CpOMAwSuk+m/Hy3ZIe5LLTI760A/fdlbqMkWz0xx7rHy85+gae1RFlB5K Ma6Ez9WDvWCAwg7fxugtzcZLgwcsV7Heb20rdrNv+YimTrsMveyLytnO+vNdj2P94Ahm XuAyKYwFEL2NAMpYygl5eCJq6MsYzZPocEQ5dg/QiS6VcpHMbCf054LsIzvjDioAfNW5 FwqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORd61nZFTxPfc+czIjZLC+JA74VWr8B/bk/hbSHXCFVDDbs6dQWUyqNRxdxWKtprA== X-Received: by 10.66.252.198 with SMTP id zu6mr23144124pac.107.1454709335706; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (124-171-30-137.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.171.30.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r87sm26590448pfa.61.2016.02.05.13.55.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:55:34 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1BA932AC-0158-473D-A4CE-9686D2B10B8E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 08:55:29 +1100 Message-Id: <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> To: Jason Horning X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "Rosen, Brian \(Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz\)" , "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:55:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1BA932AC-0158-473D-A4CE-9686D2B10B8E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi Jason, https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ = I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( > On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning = wrote: >=20 > not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when = pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough = resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where = else would the dispatch level resolution come from? >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is = a good plan (I still don=92t like the concept of the draft at all). > When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we = are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >=20 > Cheers > James >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1BA932AC-0158-473D-A4CE-9686D2B10B8E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is = important, but not currently in scope.. *8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning = <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote:

not familiar with = the charter so my apologies there, but when pre-validating addresses for = 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough resolution. no guarantee = you'll get more detail from the caller.  where else would the = dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent = from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, = James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels = like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a good = plan (I still don=92t like the concept of the draft at all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I = think we are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, = perhaps street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?

Cheers
James





= --Apple-Mail=_1BA932AC-0158-473D-A4CE-9686D2B10B8E-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 14:01:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC031B2DF1 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:01:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dsOYPTM8ApfR for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 201621B2DEC for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049401.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049401.ppops.net-0018ba01. (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u15Lwcgp024672; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:00:55 -0500 Received: from stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by m0049401.ppops.net-0018ba01. with ESMTP id 20vup2gvk8-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:00:55 -0500 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.133]) by stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:00:55 -0500 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: James Winterbottom Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QAum/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+gg== Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 22:00:54 +0000 Message-ID: <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.33.193.8] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2A1939EAB9844AC2A9914F4745C5F565neustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-02-05_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:01:07 -0000 --_000_2A1939EAB9844AC2A9914F4745C5F565neustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92ll make things easy for you: There are buildings where some suites house very high security departments.= Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so routing of the ca= lls is different. I personally am not aware of a routing different for one= room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary. So, not limited to dispatch issues. Brian On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom > wrote: Hi Jason, https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning > wrote: not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when pre-validatin= g addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough resolution. no gu= arantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where else would the dispa= tch level resolution come from? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom > wrote: Hi All, It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a go= od plan (I still don=92t like the concept of the draft at all). When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are tal= king dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street numb= er is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? Cheers James --_000_2A1939EAB9844AC2A9914F4745C5F565neustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92ll make things easy for you:

There are buildings where some suites house very high secur= ity departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be special,= so routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not aware of a= routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.

So, not limited to dispatch issues.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@= gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope..= *8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wro= te:

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but wh= en pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough r= esolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller.  where= else would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<= mailto:a.james= .winterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a go= od plan (I still don=92t like the concept of the draft at all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are tal= king dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street numb= er is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?

Cheers
James






--_000_2A1939EAB9844AC2A9914F4745C5F565neustarbiz_-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 14:23:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682C01B2E37 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G0ZqmXL4cYo0 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x236.google.com (mail-pa0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E2E71B2E18 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-x236.google.com with SMTP id ho8so40708922pac.2 for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:23:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=STC8H8eDUu7BCXydOhIdcZjoLEih1v4ZKNb3voVONKY=; b=uw/DDJEPpSqKIyO2Q7TtajvXKRxWsxTU/tapbgqENYX/nLEIN/LHfgVT7XQvgeAmxN AMKb4n0UaDWdPe2l3NyTUvgD6TBM3vslVY/93INjwAjflD2xcf91Dj0nVjsRqZpRGCZG UZZ2+Ezr59QCk1Sx2Eo+2rq0ituztlS6SAfe8crN/sQymEe7i+iCsI2GAqNIhh1Yb/Om 4eT1PkpW7dq8h+1cBymaImANoylNp8L+kHDFAIU6UrtGQudz5ljawXqP0G/HnWtHW+ry Tn3lQw4Q5BJar1PePqCvWVHy33ZTxyCdqzCEjhxZqj9sJoJ6PaPPLkLNU+/CORwq9olL cQHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=STC8H8eDUu7BCXydOhIdcZjoLEih1v4ZKNb3voVONKY=; b=LKnm9sGmCPhILAnra39iEbkwrVpRLby7wC+KsrPFaiLCXX1Xe52L50hFStwNuUQSW9 C581TcR6e9S33qQ6m+y95pjH0DsRVtq7dKa25PPjjDhRkfUcjZHs+dEeCTGmoKi8gHEP eD/fEz9eFi0dPFwgNBPpl9Bj1SbRCfgyF09YgnVFwu1rm6BxnT7kwIoczsqvfLWSap+4 5N9kLG6iAgjjKwaLR3ZfwgJP3SkbfYe/OYVIFS8Fnfu8cRhMYL898kWxToovltlD59Hb NDHg7UFolh97YL84idDYiSJMkoakMDyu/nWcpvy5fLbQ7i3hbbadVmtvb4G118a+TBlt 3A1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQyrrbtX2uBrvxlzHwJGsPcn2/fd8D+h8qNpfbTWUZUYGf3CDRT3g1zjlzxOdyPaA== X-Received: by 10.66.250.165 with SMTP id zd5mr22953585pac.111.1454711034136; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.172.51.119] ([1.129.19.96]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fl9sm26642787pab.30.2016.02.05.14.23.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 14:23:52 -0800 (PST) References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1A652B73-7226-4ACD-8E16-189288F506D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D201) From: James Winterbottom Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 09:23:46 +1100 To: "Rosen, Brian" Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:23:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1A652B73-7226-4ACD-8E16-189288F506D6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside a private= network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case. Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" wrote:= >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you: >=20 > There are buildings where some suites house very high security departments= . Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so routing of the ca= lls is different. I personally am not aware of a routing different for one r= oom (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary. >=20 > So, not limited to dispatch issues. >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Jason, >>=20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ >>=20 >> I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning wrote= : >>>=20 >>> not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when pre-valida= ting addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough resolution. no g= uarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where else would the dispa= tch level resolution come from? >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi All, >>>=20 >>> It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a= good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at all). >>> When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are t= alking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street num= ber is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>> James >=20 --Apple-Mail-1A652B73-7226-4ACD-8E16-189288F506D6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In such a case it is more than likely t= hat calls are routed inside a private network. Therefore I think that this i= s beyond a fringe case.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Feb 20= 16, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you:

There are buildings where some suites house very high securi= ty departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, s= o routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not aware of a ro= uting different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.

So, not limited to dispatch issues.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmai= l.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *= 8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote= :

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but whe= n pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough res= olution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller.  where el= se would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.wi= nterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a goo= d plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are talk= ing dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street number= is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?

Cheers
James






= --Apple-Mail-1A652B73-7226-4ACD-8E16-189288F506D6-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 14:29:59 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5911B2E49 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:29:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQ0TJBCBp2-K for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E58A1B2E3E for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 14:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078664.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u15MMjIi030379; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:29:46 -0500 Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20rrq0kvtb-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:29:46 -0500 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.133]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.23]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:29:45 -0500 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: James Winterbottom Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QAum/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+gg== Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 22:29:44 +0000 Message-ID: <0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.33.193.8] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0C529E7FA2E14712AE5498D4F4FFC917neustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-02-05_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:29:49 -0000 --_000_0C529E7FA2E14712AE5498D4F4FFC917neustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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Ym9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_0C529E7FA2E14712AE5498D4F4FFC917neustarbiz_-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 15:24:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9227A1B2F48 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:24:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_PAIN=2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qh6pEVUbXPJM for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x234.google.com (mail-pf0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 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James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 10:24:38 +1100 Message-Id: References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> <0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> To: "Rosen, Brian" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 23:24:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_02699514-D42A-4288-A7CD-498C520EB947 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards for Public, = not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you want and it = is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch = locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this = approach, I queried it then too. I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST uses = includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in = ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct = PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having = to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum sub-element quite = easily. There is also a very big difference between providing = alternatives for information that has been proffered, and adding whole = sub-elements that were not. Cheers James > On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian = wrote: >=20 > Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network? Still is a = route. >=20 > None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. Since the = same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street number, = solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even rooms. = The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress = components. It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any of them. The = problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just about any field. For = example if there is an error on A1 (State/Province), but there is only a = few possible addresses that match all of the rest of the fields = provided, all the discussions we are having on this thread apply. >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >>=20 >> In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside a = private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case. >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" > wrote: >>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you: >>>=20 >>> There are buildings where some suites house very high security = departments. Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so = routing of the calls is different. I personally am not aware of a = routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be = necessary. >>>=20 >>> So, not limited to dispatch issues. >>>=20 >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Jason, >>>>=20 >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ = >>>>=20 >>>> I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning > wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when = pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough = resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where = else would the dispatch level resolution come from? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom = >> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi All, >>>>>=20 >>>>> It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of = entities is a good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the = draft at all). >>>>> When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think = we are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, = perhaps street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cheers >>>>> James >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >=20 --Apple-Mail=_02699514-D42A-4288-A7CD-498C520EB947 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in = PSAP standards for Public, not Private. So in a private network you can = do whatever you want and it is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. = *8P

I don=E2=80=99= t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch locations by = forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this approach, I = queried it then too.

I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST = uses includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in = ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct = PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having = to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum sub-element quite = easily. There is also a very big difference between providing = alternatives for information that has been proffered, and adding whole = sub-elements that were not.

Cheers
James




On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian = <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network?  Still is a = route.

None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. =  Since the same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a = street number, solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, = or even rooms.  The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress components.  It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any = of them.  The problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just = about any field.  For example if there is an error on A1 = (State/Province), but there is only a few possible addresses that match = all of the rest of the fields provided, all the discussions we are having on this = thread apply.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:

In such a case it is more than likely that calls are = routed inside a private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a = fringe case.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you:

There are buildings where some suites house very high = security departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be = special, so routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not = aware of a routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.

So, not limited to dispatch issues.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in = scope.. *8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote:

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but = when pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is = enough resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. =  where else would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a = good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at = all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are = talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?
=
Cheers
James






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= --Apple-Mail=_02699514-D42A-4288-A7CD-498C520EB947-- From nobody Sat Feb 6 09:31:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B143F1A6FA3 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2016 09:31:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.036 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.036 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, MANGLED_PAIN=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOwMmYG4HS-v for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2016 09:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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[124.168.165.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x12sm9131499pfi.88.2016.02.06.11.16.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 06 Feb 2016 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9E751C1B-99DE-4718-9E47-97A53B687423" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <8D4DAF7B-8A63-42A2-9686-43FDA4441B75@neustar.biz> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 06:16:00 +1100 Message-Id: <39702A57-51B2-469B-8409-8A890BD3F03B@gmail.com> References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> <0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> <8D4DAF7B-8A63-42A2-9686-43FDA4441B75@neustar.biz> To: "Rosen, Brian" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2016 19:16:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9E751C1B-99DE-4718-9E47-97A53B687423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a better one. The problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t really the = example you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t found = =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is lots of = =E2=80=9Cunique=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same problem. It = may be a related problem, but it is not the problem you describe below. = The problem that is being described, as I understand it, is you provide = "200 North Main Street=E2=80=9D and this street goes for 20 blocks, so = you are given all 20 blocks worth of options on both sides of the road + = all floors and suites that may exist in any of the buildings. No = allowing multiples to be returned where it is =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D the = leaf element that is being substituted (leaf if from the proffered = location), would address this and most of the other vast-multi-return = cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not get a response = because there are 50 states that could be returned. Cheers James =20 > On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian = wrote: >=20 > =E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited access/limited = service area response system, especially when operated by government = agencies, which are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited. >=20 > You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and dispatch because you = always send one location with the call. That has to be good enough for = both functions when using location by value. We are discussing street = addresses, which are very often sent by value. >=20 > LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the Location = Information, including the subaddress components. Whether they are = actually used or not depends on the circumstances, and there are = circumstances where they are used. That=E2=80=99s really all there is. = We don=E2=80=99t have any text in any document that limits what LoST can = route on, and all the components can be in the proffered address, and = thus CAN be routed on. =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very big difference = between providing alternatives for information that has been proffered, = and adding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D. If you send a = location that is missing some element, but by the elements you send, we = can in fact identify a unique location, that doesn=E2=80=99t necessarily = mean the location is correct. Suppose there is no 200 Main Street, but = there is a 200 North Main Street. =E2=80=9CNorth=E2=80=9D may be = missing. Is that =E2=80=9Cadding a while sub-element=E2=80=9D if that = location is returned as an alternate valid location? =20 >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards for = Public, not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you = want and it is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch = locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this = approach, I queried it then too. >>=20 >> I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST uses = includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in = ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct = PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having = to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum sub-element quite = easily. There is also a very big difference between providing = alternatives for information that has been proffered, and adding whole = sub-elements that were not. >>=20 >> Cheers >> James >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian > wrote: >>>=20 >>> Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network? Still is a = route. >>>=20 >>> None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. Since the = same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street number, = solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even rooms. = The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress = components. It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any of them. The = problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just about any field. For = example if there is an error on A1 (State/Province), but there is only a = few possible addresses that match all of the rest of the fields = provided, all the discussions we are having on this thread apply. >>>=20 >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside = a private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case. >>>>=20 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>=20 >>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you: >>>>>=20 >>>>> There are buildings where some suites house very high security = departments. Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so = routing of the calls is different. I personally am not aware of a = routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be = necessary. >>>>>=20 >>>>> So, not limited to dispatch issues. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Brian >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ = >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning = > wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when = pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough = resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where = else would the dispatch level resolution come from? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom = >> wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of = entities is a good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the = draft at all). >>>>>>> When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think = we are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, = perhaps street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> James >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ecrit mailing list >>>> Ecrit@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit = >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >=20 --Apple-Mail=_9E751C1B-99DE-4718-9E47-97A53B687423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a better = one.

The = problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t really the = example you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t found = =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is lots of = =E2=80=9Cunique=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same problem. It = may be a related problem, but it is not the problem you describe below. = The problem that is being described, as I understand it, is you provide = "200 North Main Street=E2=80=9D and this street goes for 20 blocks, so = you are given all 20 blocks worth of options on both sides of the road + = all floors and suites that may exist in any of the buildings. No = allowing multiples to be returned where it is =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D the = leaf element that is being substituted (leaf if from the proffered = location), would address this and most of the other vast-multi-return = cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not get a response = because there are 50 states that could be returned.

Cheers
James
 


On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian = <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

=E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited = access/limited service area response system, especially when operated by = government agencies, which are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited.

You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and = dispatch because you always send one location with the call.  That = has to be good enough for both functions when using location by value. =  We are discussing street addresses, which are very often sent by = value.

LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the = Location Information, including the subaddress components.  Whether = they are actually used or not depends on the circumstances, and there = are circumstances where they are used.  That=E2=80=99s really all there is.  We don=E2=80=99t have any text in any document that = limits what LoST can route on, and all the components can be in the = proffered address, and thus CAN be routed on.  

I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very = big difference between providing alternatives for information that has = been proffered, and adding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D. =  If you send a location that is missing some element, but by the elements you send, we can in fact identify a unique location, that = doesn=E2=80=99t necessarily mean the location is correct.  Suppose = there is no 200 Main Street, but there is a 200 North Main Street. =  =E2=80=9CNorth=E2=80=9D may be missing.  Is that =E2=80=9Caddin= g a while sub-element=E2=80=9D if that location is returned as an alternate valid location? =  

Brian




On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:

Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP = standards for Public, not Private. So in a private network you can do = whatever you want and it is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P

I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing = and dispatch locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA = took this approach, I queried it then too.

I disagree with the assertion "The location information = LoST uses includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST = server in ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the = correct PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having to be the same, then I think we can define the = minimum sub-element quite easily. There is also a very big difference = between providing alternatives for information that has been proffered, = and adding whole sub-elements that were not.

Cheers
James




On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network?  Still is a = route.

None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. =  Since the same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a = street number, solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, = or even rooms.  The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress components.  It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any = of them.  The problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just = about any field.  For example if there is an error on A1 = (State/Province), but there is only a few possible addresses that match = all of the rest of the fields provided, all the discussions we are having on this = thread apply.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:

In such a case it is more than likely that calls are = routed inside a private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a = fringe case.

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you:

There are buildings where some suites house very high = security departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be = special, so routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not = aware of a routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.

So, not limited to dispatch issues.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in = scope.. *8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote:

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but = when pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is = enough resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. =  where else would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a = good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at = all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are = talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?
=
Cheers
James






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<7F76CDD7-C272-48B0-9F99-13F002A8DA24@neustar.biz> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6B4A69EF-2761-4993-B22D-11C25EA113CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <92EA1B19-3A6A-4EA8-AE2A-48C4A35B7222@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D201) From: James Winterbottom Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 09:34:25 +1100 To: "Rosen, Brian" Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:34:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6B4A69EF-2761-4993-B22D-11C25EA113CB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable House number is exactly as use case where not permitting leaf should be appl= ied. But are strangers to disagreement...*8) Sent from my iPhone > On 8 Feb 2016, at 8:53 am, "Rosen, Brian" wrote:= >=20 > I really think it=E2=80=99s just how many valid locations would be returne= d. If it=E2=80=99s small, return them. If it=E2=80=99s not, either don=E2=80= =99t return any option, or return the few most likely. I don=E2=80=99t thin= k you can suggest that if it=E2=80=99s not the leaf element than don=E2=80=99= t return: there are lots of cases where, for example, common use is no hous= e number on some very short streets that have only one or a very small numbe= r of houses, but in fact there is one. House number is leaf. All the =E2=80= =9Coptions=E2=80=9D on street name (directionals, prefix/suffix, thoroughfa= re type,..) could be considered =E2=80=9Cleaf=E2=80=9D of street name, and m= any of the cases we=E2=80=99re discussing could have only a couple of likely= options. I just don=E2=80=99t think that differentiation is useful for us.= >=20 > Brian >=20 >> On Feb 6, 2016, at 2:16 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a better one. >>=20 >> The problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t really the ex= ample you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t found =E2=80=9C= a=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is lots of =E2=80=9Cuni= que=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same problem. It may be a relate= d problem, but it is not the problem you describe below. The problem that is= being described, as I understand it, is you provide "200 North Main Street=E2= =80=9D and this street goes for 20 blocks, so you are given all 20 blocks wo= rth of options on both sides of the road + all floors and suites that may ex= ist in any of the buildings. No allowing multiples to be returned where it i= s =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D the leaf element that is being substituted (leaf if= from the proffered location), would address this and most of the other vas= t-multi-return cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not get a r= esponse because there are 50 states that could be returned. >>=20 >> Cheers >> James >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian wrote:= >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited access/limited serv= ice area response system, especially when operated by government agencies, w= hich are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited. >>>=20 >>> You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and dispatch because you al= ways send one location with the call. That has to be good enough for both f= unctions when using location by value. We are discussing street addresses, w= hich are very often sent by value. >>>=20 >>> LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the Location Inform= ation, including the subaddress components. Whether they are actually used o= r not depends on the circumstances, and there are circumstances where they a= re used. That=E2=80=99s really all there is. We don=E2=80=99t have any tex= t in any document that limits what LoST can route on, and all the components= can be in the proffered address, and thus CAN be routed on. =20 >>>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very big difference b= etween providing alternatives for information that has been proffered, and a= dding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D. If you send a location tha= t is missing some element, but by the elements you send, we can in fact iden= tify a unique location, that doesn=E2=80=99t necessarily mean the location i= s correct. Suppose there is no 200 Main Street, but there is a 200 North Ma= in Street. =E2=80=9CNorth=E2=80=9D may be missing. Is that =E2=80=9Cadding= a while sub-element=E2=80=9D if that location is returned as an alternate v= alid location? =20 >>>=20 >>> Brian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards for Public,= not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you want and it is= not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P >>>>=20 >>>> I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch lo= cations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this approach,= I queried it then too. >>>>=20 >>>> I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST uses inclu= des all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in ECRIT only re= quires the components necessary to identify the correct PSAP to route to. If= you decouple the routing and dispatch from having to be the same, then I th= ink we can define the minimum sub-element quite easily. There is also a very= big difference between providing alternatives for information that has been= proffered, and adding whole sub-elements that were not. >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers >>>> James >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian wrot= e: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network? Still is a rou= te. >>>>>=20 >>>>> None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. Since the sa= me circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street number, solving= it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even rooms. The locat= ion information LoST uses includes all the subaddress components. It=E2=80=99= s possible to route on any of them. The problems we=E2=80=99re solving can o= ccur on just about any field. For example if there is an error on A1 (State= /Province), but there is only a few possible addresses that match all of the= rest of the fields provided, all the discussions we are having on this thre= ad apply. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Brian >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside a p= rivate network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" w= rote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> There are buildings where some suites house very high security depar= tments. Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so routing of t= he calls is different. I personally am not aware of a routing different for= one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> So, not limited to dispatch issues. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning = wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when pre-= validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough resolutio= n. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where else would th= e dispatch level resolution come from? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom > wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entitie= s is a good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at all= ). >>>>>>>>> When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think w= e are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps str= eet number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> James >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ecrit mailing list >>>>>> Ecrit@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ecrit mailing list >>>> Ecrit@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >=20 --Apple-Mail-6B4A69EF-2761-4993-B22D-11C25EA113CB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
House number is exactly as use case wh= ere not permitting leaf should be applied. But are strangers to disagreement= ...*8)


Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Feb 2016, at= 8:53 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Bria= n.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

I really think it=E2=80=99s just how many valid locations would be returned.=  If it=E2=80=99s small, return them.  If it=E2=80=99s not, either= don=E2=80=99t return any option, or return the few most likely.  I don= =E2=80=99t think you can suggest that if it=E2=80=99s not the leaf element t= han don=E2=80=99t return:  there are lots of cases where, for example, common use is no house nu= mber on some very short streets that have only one or a very small number of= houses, but in fact there is one.  House number is leaf.  All the= =E2=80=9Coptions=E2=80=9D on street name  (directionals, prefix/suffix= , thoroughfare type,..) could be considered =E2=80=9Cleaf=E2=80=9D of street n= ame, and many of the cases we=E2=80=99re discussing could have only a couple= of likely options.  I just don=E2=80=99t think that differentiation is= useful for us.

Brian

On Feb 6, 2016, at 2:16 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmai= l.com> wrote:


Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a bette= r one.

The problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t r= eally the example you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t fo= und =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is lots of= =E2=80=9Cunique=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same problem. It ma= y be a related problem, but it is not the problem you describe below. The pro= blem that is being described, as I understand it, is you provide "200 North M= ain Street=E2=80=9D and this street goes for 20 blocks, so you are given all= 20 blocks worth of options on both sides of the road + all floors and suites that may exist in any of the buil= dings. No allowing multiples to be returned where it is =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D= the leaf element that is being substituted (leaf if from the proffered loca= tion), would address this and most of the other vast-multi-return cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not get= a response because there are 50 states that could be returned.

Cheers
James
 


On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:=

=E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited access/= limited service area response system, especially when operated by government= agencies, which are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited.

You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and dispatch be= cause you always send one location with the call.  That has to be good e= nough for both functions when using location by value.  We are discussi= ng street addresses, which are very often sent by value.

LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the Loc= ation Information, including the subaddress components.  Whether they a= re actually used or not depends on the circumstances, and there are circumst= ances where they are used.  That=E2=80=99s really all there is.  We don=E2=80=99t have any text in any document that lim= its what LoST can route on, and all the components can be in the proffered a= ddress, and thus CAN be routed on.  

I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very big d= ifference between providing alternatives for information that has been proff= ered, and adding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D.  If you sen= d a location that is missing some element, but by the elements you send, we can in fact identify a unique location, that doesn=E2= =80=99t necessarily mean the location is correct.  Suppose there is no 2= 00 Main Street, but there is a 200 North Main Street.  =E2=80=9CNorth=E2= =80=9D may be missing.  Is that =E2=80=9Cadding a while sub-element=E2=80= =9D if that location is returned as an alternate valid location?  

Brian




On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmai= l.com> wrote:

Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards f= or Public, not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you want= and it is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P

I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and d= ispatch locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this= approach, I queried it then too.

I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST= uses includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in EC= RIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct PSAP to r= oute to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum= sub-element quite easily. There is also a very big difference between provi= ding alternatives for information that has been proffered, and adding whole s= ub-elements that were not.

Cheers
James




On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:=

Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network?  Still is a rout= e.

None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. &nb= sp;Since the same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street n= umber, solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even roo= ms.  The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress components.  It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any of t= hem.  The problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just about any fi= eld.  For example if there is an error on A1 (State/Province), but ther= e is only a few possible addresses that match all of the rest of the fields provided, all the discussions we are having on this thread ap= ply.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmai= l.com> wrote:

In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed i= nside a private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case= .

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you:

There are buildings where some suites house very high securi= ty departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, s= o routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not aware of a ro= uting different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.

So, not limited to dispatch issues.

Brian


On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmai= l.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/

I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *= 8(


On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote= :

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but whe= n pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough res= olution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller.  where el= se would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.wi= nterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a goo= d plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are talk= ing dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps street number= is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?

Cheers
James






_______________________________________________
Ecrit mailing list
Ecrit@ietf.org
https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit


_______________________________________________
Ecrit mailing list
Ecrit@ietf.org
https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit



= --Apple-Mail-6B4A69EF-2761-4993-B22D-11C25EA113CB-- From nobody Mon Feb 8 08:38:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D511A6F91; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:12:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Liaison Statement Management Tool To: "Roger Marshall" , "Marc Linsner" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160201001230.24574.16071.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:12:30 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 08:38:09 -0800 Cc: Ben Campbell , Marc Linsner , Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Discussion List , 3GPPLiaison@etsi.org, Barry Leiba Subject: [Ecrit] New Liaison Statement, "Response to LS on NG eCall support for the EU" X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:12:30 -0000 Title: Response to LS on NG eCall support for the EU Submission Date: 2016-01-31 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1452/ From: "Susanna Kooistra" <3GPPLiaison@etsi.org> To: Marc Linsner , Roger Marshall Cc: Barry Leiba ,Marc Linsner ,Ben Campbell ,Alissa Cooper ,Roger Marshall ,Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Discussion List , Response Contacts: georg.mayer.huawei@gmx.com, 3GPPLiaison@etsi.org Technical Contacts: Purpose: In response Referenced liaison: Liaison Statement on NG eCall support for the EU (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1412/) Body: 1. Overall description 3GPP TSG CT WG1 would like to thank IETF Ecrit WG for the LS (C1-152644) on NG eCall support for the EU. 3GPP TSG CT WG1 would like to inform IETF Ecrit WG that 3GPP TSG CT WG1 will work on stage-3 for eCall in IMS in Release 14 (ending in June 2017), subject to 3GPP TSG SA WG2 completion of the normative stage-2 work and approval of a 3GPP TSG CT work item. 3GPP TSG CT WG1 stage-3 work might result in protocol requirements deviating or conflicting with the current version of IETF draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall, and thus might impact IETF work. 2. Actions To IETF Ecrit WG ACTION: 3GPP TSG CT WG1 respectfully asks IETF Ecrit WG to take the above into consideration. 3. Dates of next TSG CT WG1 meetings TSG CT WG1 Meeting 96 15-19 February 2016 Jeju Island, Korea TSG CT WG1 Meeting 97 11-15 April 2016 Ljubljana, Slovenia Attachments: Response to LS on NG eCall support for the EU https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2016-01-31-3gpp-tsgct-ct1-ecrit-response-to-ls-on-ng-ecall-support-for-the-eu-attachment-1.pdf From nobody Mon Feb 8 08:38:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0527C1B323D; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 08:42:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160201164249.12652.31468.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 08:42:49 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 08:38:10 -0800 Cc: ecrit-chairs@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] ecrit - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 16:42:50 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Roger Marshall, a Chair of the ecrit working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Roger Marshall Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 25 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: artarea Special Requests: No Friday meeting, please. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Feb 8 12:23:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58101B32B1 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:23:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.1 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_PAIN=2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XTD0bNaf4est for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:23:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.ndaco.org (mail.ndaco.org [66.97.230.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F12A1B32B4 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394]) by ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org ([fe80::b961:65f4:be54:a394%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0266.001; Mon, 8 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(8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u18KSuve005790; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 15:32:44 -0500 Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by m0049401.ppops.net-0018ba01. with ESMTP id 20we1dbqrh-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:32:44 -0500 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.133]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.23]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 15:32:43 -0500 From: "Rosen, Brian" To: Jason Horning Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QAum/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+gg== Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 20:32:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> <701915A9-7BF8-4723-9A78-B85AE3F1C188@gmail.com> <0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> <8D4DAF7B-8A63-42A2-9686-43FDA4441B75@neustar.biz> 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=2eyU/8Ijw8cMaJ0RYJN0GFcc1hws8F1WdkVdQ6k5Cwc=; b=ByrqeJWonDKfKE3ZOj1TBgkzX4XztAKuy0iuwgEbXkpK1A6vRqcsT+CEf5wswiZ33x b1W9+mxmPzQh1BWiWWJaiuwLW+EpT8QFYhdX2MQwfijjdiO6rtqRo6KsCWLZJpJ6OsXd Iw4Kcs4IGQ1s21UJVwUX5lP/Dg2+cUByvJcIPZSDuD0xoPmqG/P0mTWM5AI3Q7JU5Vlk sC2SsBtEgrkhDows1mSf+fcXtCJ8idsCRC94oNAmUI/lTudLU29yhTzw+QAgUbbwmv0F FzZn8qfXJ4R4rq+hTe5hZXHfhAV4Dguq8mooEnX8Tw46ULSm5dBBbuMaluPWc0Qib1MU An2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=2eyU/8Ijw8cMaJ0RYJN0GFcc1hws8F1WdkVdQ6k5Cwc=; b=aYneoaQ65fyoN0S8nEa3trQSeaGhHvk5QkZztCPcuT4fBlhxUP7DxJsTRrtR2EtwPu HnT958Mp2zHMWmjziYY7hE6IElWZHn120Orh/bv18nhDjO9tW559gNmLw8tyv1yWpQUS WzYsHcX4Fmgqa6LgHH5qPC5ZtrpiOVtNDhtVJX+S6IRL9kS3dxq/+1D164MLBbdMz1LJ 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<0C529E7F-A2E1-4712-AE54-98D4F4FFC917@neustar.biz> <8D4DAF7B-8A63-42A2-9686-43FDA4441B75@neustar.biz> <39702A57-51B2-469B-8409-8A890BD3F03B@gmail.com> <7F76CDD7-C272-48B0-9F99-13F002A8DA24@neustar.biz> <92EA1B19-3A6A-4EA8-AE2A-48C4A35B7222@gmail.com> <98B2A42FAA333144B616D2C361B3E1B22245A072@ACO54MAIL.ndaco.org> To: "Rosen, Brian" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 07:49:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B11135BA-E63B-4D8B-8479-85B409426CCB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think your position is fair Jason. The problem is that anything more than a very small number is going to = be difficult to hand process, and I must be honest and say that I = don=E2=80=99t think this mechanism is likely to be used for mass or = batch processing. So what is the recommended limit for the number of = responses? Cheers James =20 > On 9 Feb 2016, at 7:32 am, Rosen, Brian = wrote: >=20 > Yeah, I think so. We would need a new error code to supply =E2=80=9Ctoo= many matches=E2=80=9D. I wouldn=E2=80=99t try to suggest what to do: = =E2=80=9Ctry again with a unit=E2=80=9D. In the case where a unit is = required to get a match, you would return unit in the invalid list if it = was missing. Same with A1. =20 >=20 > Brian >=20 >> On Feb 8, 2016, at 3:23 PM, Jason Horning > wrote: >>=20 >> Can we agree that if a server finds 30 matches of complete or similar = locations with equal match quality, odds are that the interesting ones = are not offered in the response if the response is limited to a few?=20 >> =20 >> If you truncate the response at all, it seems like something else is = necessary to give the requestor another clue. (e.g. too many matches = returned, be more specific, try again with a UNIT value, etc) >> =20 >> Jason >> =20 >> =C2=A0 <> >> From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of James Winterbottom >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 4:34 PM >> To: Rosen, Brian >> Cc: ecrit@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 >> =20 >> House number is exactly as use case where not permitting leaf should = be applied. But are strangers to disagreement...*8) >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> On 8 Feb 2016, at 8:53 am, "Rosen, Brian" > wrote: >>=20 >> I really think it=E2=80=99s just how many valid locations would be = returned. If it=E2=80=99s small, return them. If it=E2=80=99s not, = either don=E2=80=99t return any option, or return the few most likely. = I don=E2=80=99t think you can suggest that if it=E2=80=99s not the leaf = element than don=E2=80=99t return: there are lots of cases where, for = example, common use is no house number on some very short streets that = have only one or a very small number of houses, but in fact there is = one. House number is leaf. All the =E2=80=9Coptions=E2=80=9D on street = name (directionals, prefix/suffix, thoroughfare type,..) could be = considered =E2=80=9Cleaf=E2=80=9D of street name, and many of the cases = we=E2=80=99re discussing could have only a couple of likely options. I = just don=E2=80=99t think that differentiation is useful for us. >> =20 >> Brian >> =20 >> On Feb 6, 2016, at 2:16 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >> =20 >> =20 >> Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a better one. >> =20 >> The problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t really = the example you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t = found =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is = lots of =E2=80=9Cunique=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same = problem. It may be a related problem, but it is not the problem you = describe below. The problem that is being described, as I understand it, = is you provide "200 North Main Street=E2=80=9D and this street goes for = 20 blocks, so you are given all 20 blocks worth of options on both sides = of the road + all floors and suites that may exist in any of the = buildings. No allowing multiples to be returned where it is =E2=80=9Conly=E2= =80=9D the leaf element that is being substituted (leaf if from the = proffered location), would address this and most of the other = vast-multi-return cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not = get a response because there are 50 states that could be returned. >> =20 >> Cheers >> James >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian > wrote: >> =20 >> =E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited access/limited = service area response system, especially when operated by government = agencies, which are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited. >> =20 >> You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and dispatch because you = always send one location with the call. That has to be good enough for = both functions when using location by value. We are discussing street = addresses, which are very often sent by value. >> =20 >> LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the Location = Information, including the subaddress components. Whether they are = actually used or not depends on the circumstances, and there are = circumstances where they are used. That=E2=80=99s really all there is. = We don=E2=80=99t have any text in any document that limits what LoST can = route on, and all the components can be in the proffered address, and = thus CAN be routed on. =20 >> =20 >> I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very big = difference between providing alternatives for information that has been = proffered, and adding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D. If you = send a location that is missing some element, but by the elements you = send, we can in fact identify a unique location, that doesn=E2=80=99t = necessarily mean the location is correct. Suppose there is no 200 Main = Street, but there is a 200 North Main Street. =E2=80=9CNorth=E2=80=9D = may be missing. Is that =E2=80=9Cadding a while sub-element=E2=80=9D if = that location is returned as an alternate valid location? =20 >> =20 >> Brian >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >> =20 >> Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards for = Public, not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you = want and it is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P >> =20 >> I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch = locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this = approach, I queried it then too. >> =20 >> I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST uses = includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in = ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct = PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having = to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum sub-element quite = easily. There is also a very big difference between providing = alternatives for information that has been proffered, and adding whole = sub-elements that were not. >> =20 >> Cheers >> James >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian > wrote: >> =20 >> Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network? Still is a = route. >> =20 >> None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you. Since the = same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street number, = solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even rooms. = The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress = components. It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any of them. The = problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just about any field. For = example if there is an error on A1 (State/Province), but there is only a = few possible addresses that match all of the rest of the fields = provided, all the discussions we are having on this thread apply. >> =20 >> Brian >> =20 >> =20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >> =20 >> In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside a = private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case. >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" > wrote: >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you:=20 >> =20 >> There are buildings where some suites house very high security = departments. Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, so = routing of the calls is different. I personally am not aware of a = routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be = necessary. >> =20 >> So, not limited to dispatch issues. >> =20 >> Brian >> =20 >> =20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom = > = wrote: >> =20 >> Hi Jason, >> =20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/ = >> =20 >> I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8( >> =20 >> =20 >> On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning > wrote: >> =20 >> not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when = pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough = resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. where = else would the dispatch level resolution come from? >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom = >> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi All, >>=20 >> It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities = is a good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at = all). >> When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we = are talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go? >>=20 >> Cheers >> James >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit = >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit = >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit = --Apple-Mail=_B11135BA-E63B-4D8B-8479-85B409426CCB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I think your position is fair Jason.

The problem is that anything more than = a very small number is going to be difficult to hand process, and I must = be honest and say that I don=E2=80=99t think this mechanism is likely to = be used for mass or batch processing. So what is the recommended limit = for the number of responses?

Cheers
James
 

On = 9 Feb 2016, at 7:32 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> wrote:

Yeah, I think so.  We would need a new error code to supply =E2=80=9C= too many matches=E2=80=9D.  I wouldn=E2=80=99t try to suggest what = to do: =E2=80=9Ctry again with a unit=E2=80=9D.  In the case where = a unit is required to get a match, you would return unit in the invalid = list if it was missing.  Same with A1.  

Brian

On Feb 8, 2016, at 3:23 PM, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> wrote:

Can we agree that if a server finds 30 matches of = complete or similar locations with equal match quality, odds are that = the interesting ones are not offered in the response if the response is limited to a few? 
 
If you truncate the response at all, it seems like = something else is necessary to give the requestor another clue. (e.g. = too many matches returned, be more specific, try again with a UNIT value, etc)
 
Jason
 
 
From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James = Winterbottom
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 = 4:34 PM
To: Rosen, Brian
Cc: ecrit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Review of = draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01
 
House number is exactly as use case where not permitting leaf should be = applied. But are strangers to disagreement...*8)


Sent from my iPhone


On 8 Feb 2016, at 8:53 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> = wrote:

I really think it=E2=80=99s just how many valid locations would be = returned.  If it=E2=80=99s small, return them.  If it=E2=80=99s = not, either don=E2=80=99t return any option, or return the few most = likely.  I don=E2=80=99t think you can suggest that if it=E2=80=99s = not the leaf element than don=E2=80=99t return:  there are lots of cases where, for example, common use is no = house number on some very short streets that have only one or a very = small number of houses, but in fact there is one.  House number is = leaf.  All the =E2=80=9Coptions=E2=80=9D on street name =  (directionals, prefix/suffix, thoroughfare type,..) could be considered =E2=80=9Cleaf=E2=80=9D of = street name, and many of the cases we=E2=80=99re discussing could have = only a couple of likely options.  I just don=E2=80=99t think that = differentiation is useful for us.
 
Brian
 
On Feb 6, 2016, at 2:16 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
Sub-element was a bad choice of terms, leaf might be a better one.
 
The problem that is currently being described isn=E2=80=99t really the = example you give below. The problem is that you haven=E2=80=99t found = =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D unique address, the issue being described is lots of = =E2=80=9Cunique=E2=80=9D addresses, and that is not the same problem. It = may be a related problem, but it is not the problem you describe below. The problem that is being = described, as I understand it, is you provide "200 North Main Street=E2=80= =9D and this street goes for 20 blocks, so you are given all 20 blocks = worth of options on both sides of the road + all floors and suites that may exist in any of the buildings. No allowing = multiples to be returned where it is =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D the leaf = element that is being substituted (leaf if from the proffered location), = would address this and most of the other vast-multi-return cases. For example, if you just put US, you would not get a response because = there are 50 states that could be returned.
 
Cheers
James
 
 
 
On 7 Feb 2016, at 4:31 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> = wrote:
 
=E2=80=9CPublic Safety=E2=80=9D applies to a limited access/limited = service area response system, especially when operated by government = agencies, which are the examples I=E2=80=99ve cited.
 
You often =E2=80=9Cconflate=E2=80=9D routing and dispatch because you = always send one location with the call.  That has to be good enough = for both functions when using location by value.  We are discussing = street addresses, which are very often sent by value.
 
LoST is capable of routing based on any component of the Location = Information, including the subaddress components.  Whether they are = actually used or not depends on the circumstances, and there are = circumstances where they are used.  That=E2=80=99s really all there is.  We don=E2=80=99t have any text in any document that limits = what LoST can route on, and all the components can be in the proffered = address, and thus CAN be routed on.  
 
I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand "There is also a very big difference = between providing alternatives for information that has been proffered, = and adding whole sub-elements that were not=E2=80=9D.  If you send = a location that is missing some element, but by the elements you send, we can in fact identify a unique location, that doesn=E2=80=99t = necessarily mean the location is correct.  Suppose there is no 200 = Main Street, but there is a 200 North Main Street.  =E2=80=9CNorth=E2= =80=9D may be missing.  Is that =E2=80=9Cadding a while = sub-element=E2=80=9D if that location is returned as an alternate valid location?  
 
Brian
 
 
 
 
On Feb 5, 2016, at 6:24 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Except that the first =E2=80=9CP=E2=80=9D in PSAP standards for Public, = not Private. So in a private network you can do whatever you want and it = is not applicable here=E2=80=A6. *8P
 
I don=E2=80=99t believe that we should conflate routing and dispatch = locations by forcing them to be the same, I know that NENA took this = approach, I queried it then too.
 
I disagree with the assertion "The location information LoST uses = includes all the subaddress components=E2=80=9D, the LoST server in = ECRIT only requires the components necessary to identify the correct = PSAP to route to. If you decouple the routing and dispatch from having to be the same, then I think we can define the minimum = sub-element quite easily. There is also a very big difference between = providing alternatives for information that has been proffered, and = adding whole sub-elements that were not.
 
Cheers
James
 
 
 
 
On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:29 am, Rosen, Brian <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> = wrote:
 
Why would it matter if it=E2=80=99s a private network?  Still is a = route.
 
None of this actually matters, I=E2=80=99m humoring you.  Since the = same circumstance we=E2=80=99re discussing happens on a street number, = solving it for that case solves it for apartment numbers, or even rooms. =  The location information LoST uses includes all the subaddress components.  It=E2=80=99s possible to route on any of them. =  The problems we=E2=80=99re solving can occur on just about any = field.  For example if there is an error on A1 (State/Province), = but there is only a few possible addresses that match all of the rest of = the fields provided, all the discussions we are having on this thread apply.
 
Brian
 
 
On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:23 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:
 
In such a case it is more than likely that calls are routed inside a = private network. Therefore I think that this is beyond a fringe case.

Sent from my iPhone


On 6 Feb 2016, at 9:00 am, "Rosen, Brian" <Brian.Rosen@neustar.biz> = wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll make things easy for you: 
 
There are buildings where some suites house very high security = departments.  Emergency calls from those suites has to be special, = so routing of the calls is different.  I personally am not aware of = a routing different for one room (such as a SCIF), but that may also be necessary.
 
So, not limited to dispatch issues.
 
Brian
 
 
On Feb 5, 2016, at 4:55 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Hi Jason,
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ecrit/charter/
 
I agree dispatch is important, but not currently in scope.. *8(
 
 
On 6 Feb 2016, at 8:40 am, Jason Horning <jason.horning@ndaco.org> = wrote:
 

not familiar with the charter so my apologies there, but when = pre-validating addresses for 911 I don't believe that the hn is enough = resolution. no guarantee you'll get more detail from the caller. =  where else would the dispatch level resolution come from?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:25 PM, James Winterbottom <a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com<mailto:a.james.winterbottom@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

It feels like some kind of limit on the returned number of entities is a = good plan (I still don=E2=80=99t like the concept of the draft at = all).
When we are down to which of 300 apartments to identify, I think we are = talking dispatch, when our charter is routing. Given that, perhaps = street number is actually as fine a grain as we need to go?
=
Cheers
James



 
 
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= --Apple-Mail=_B11135BA-E63B-4D8B-8479-85B409426CCB-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 02:28:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE211A8859; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:28:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160209102851.15434.27768.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 02:28:51 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:28:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies of the IETF. Title : A Routing Request Extension for the HELD Protocol Authors : James Winterbottom Hannes Tschofenig Laura Liess Filename : draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2016-02-09 Abstract: For cases where location servers have access to emergency routing information they are able to return routing information with the location information if the location request includes a request for the desired routing information. This document specifies an extension to the HELD protocol that updates RFC5985, to support this funciton. Allowing location and routing information to be acquired in a single request response exchange updates RFC6881, as current location acquisition and route determination procedures are separate operations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 9 02:35:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449BE1A886E; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:35:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LqJ7NEorRA1G; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x235.google.com (mail-pf0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE5021A8865; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x235.google.com with SMTP id q63so22016413pfb.0; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 02:35:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=Bls4xqIqIIeDzPQ5muFxdZpzT1gvl9d0H2/hq5BLHqc=; b=PipTvLD02WA4FHJWe4mqXnl3dz22fTOVf+9XvcYbENfm/tAaz2Dn/odF4qnftuXU8r 3w/ZXypvSydktkybcWa4bf9+1bBc/jF5npwwZLQpRaFxx6Sjf2DwzD3xVfdIMqbh9gux khKCWzsPXXwBTqMiwEz6jjADdFu+VLEo6cdbFU3mTqo+ZXzkTHxK7Dsyj3JDFJRNOJ2x w7crGbklW7SuGePjH0FI7YuColWCVLl225ePUG31jqyQ5Neyb5MxayMAyQpJWkaHuqnX 7AJWaIhQOsd0AR2aA7IEm4ninulJ2En0wpxdEps61fD6CZK5w4vJVswEIMMsmuhpmcGc xrrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Bls4xqIqIIeDzPQ5muFxdZpzT1gvl9d0H2/hq5BLHqc=; b=BUj9dFiKF95DWskywqiqqDN/6KC7h+4rC/Y3km4KmPbyu88ikvYBk1lvNqTiLI+9V0 1U1rX6k1NwpxCTv9xJRSPsUeV0/YYFj6gkBXMn/6ShokEvhUxQKDn5X76l6Vr43H3OqV YPR8OnqRktGaob3snTYnnX/PWtfzoy7ltiNuxE44HXBLEfT/Pfdj8Krf855QrO8plbYK Wuc0o23y97WzIeI3SUqHyvq8D1zwNhda5h3bZrnTGSZW+vELpgJga9QhX0RLenJudmDY hjKq4hyphxTd7yKqdgF14gttuo4WMBqmIG+5TMUBbIOK9SWxMlTK37GXlwtveIQnOQhi /6eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORotY5ZfkQ+ztr6pmXds/+jYCXHTZfIaGazGmb7bSCfFNYEyoGZWq5OgS/LvdLLjA== X-Received: by 10.98.18.8 with SMTP id a8mr49371324pfj.41.1455014126604; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 02:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([1.144.72.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x88sm28181151pfi.66.2016.02.09.02.35.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 09 Feb 2016 02:35:25 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_93D2A4F1-330E-4855-8912-CBFAD1A0DEF6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 21:35:20 +1100 Message-Id: <396BA716-DF83-40C4-B340-30F1F221266B@gmail.com> References: <20160203023945.29944.26379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4BC272EC-2724-45DF-AFAF-A16EAB3EE0BF@gmail.com> To: The IESG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, "ecrit_ietf.org" , ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 10:35:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_93D2A4F1-330E-4855-8912-CBFAD1A0DEF6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, I have revised the held-routing draft with all of the comments made. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05 = Please let me know if you think I have missed anything. Cheers James --Apple-Mail=_93D2A4F1-330E-4855-8912-CBFAD1A0DEF6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi All,

I have revised the held-routing draft with all of the comments made.


Please let me know if you think I have missed anything.

Cheers
James

--Apple-Mail=_93D2A4F1-330E-4855-8912-CBFAD1A0DEF6-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 22:16:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACE21B3790; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:16:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ME0Tre_vZ6Ut; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22e.google.com (mail-pa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7FC71B3781; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 22:16:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id yy13so6685283pab.3; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:16:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=QUr75DDEnsyDebZiVmpwn2jWVZmf7i456Mi2dxdm8jg=; b=e5Yvhr37DW9iV9epIWgQStOTqorbUpeleoR6G5EekWYRXI9ZqD1rkA6UXicfEduBzD CDRPhnHHeQOk//Vcnwt3tJX+0IMxj7lIBI6N1IpxgSfnPGSv7JKgg37zsi1LeVOZfD3k +ifon6gz1QJVwR49Il6mq8+r1dFl2W6SB5UQ2d/iNoWrOs8Cd8RIOVjvymvGQmEMizjw PQa2+/vHKIq8G6oCjRbck0VCEYorCWfTDAAeox5XAYOxCE1dysYAyAjCuAd60kiy6leJ ooji6fpnfhgacwSGVHdzaY6EwJCkl05tK2v/GVxDzCxlV4lQu3QxPyjaecuX6Lgs5L2S lQQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=QUr75DDEnsyDebZiVmpwn2jWVZmf7i456Mi2dxdm8jg=; b=MsefHCPNW3g5Og9RlSP6zbglFpLahf1WSUX7Zg70KIArpgOMXHyoRbWq/bya40oLO4 c/jXN0BrWCVLZQuq57ok3T+eWfwg6wrc+I5vn9nmAwpilHYHaL8Xa51nXk5/IE3/noVW +VBs4BfOpLNqFqWlkRzMKFapXOHtAHAXT52wWmhhiLGtYNklStHIYLX66EtHWsMZoef3 NSJZZ9U9xOH1yXgtGTrnZI7FEpOzZnBh+j61xKEvdoYG4wU4HySBRD75crjZ7MClQvA/ ICkn+lvVlXnfHBBjo6MYGneUrXeoszMzzWN+XPcRC+ocIe4DzMA2zOzEBZ/+9tMpC2Bh s71A== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSWwbQspmnFufbTluI1IQFsOm82Z4eM5FQzha0xod8zh54zyzFkyA5OF2yCFfaqWA== X-Received: by 10.66.101.36 with SMTP id fd4mr57129586pab.76.1455084987502; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:16:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (124-168-155-74.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.168.155.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id kw10sm2056877pab.0.2016.02.09.22.16.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:16:26 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: James Winterbottom In-Reply-To: <20160204123825.15889.18278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:16:19 +1100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <829E7F28-0F6C-48A3-B372-0D4BE0FC1164@gmail.com> References: <20160204123825.15889.18278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Stephen Farrell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, The IESG , ecrit@ietf.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 06:16:29 -0000 My apologies Stephen, I seem to have missed this email completely. I will propose some changes and then update. Again, my apologies. > On 4 Feb 2016, at 11:38 pm, Stephen Farrell = wrote: >=20 > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-04: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > section 4: The optional service URN seems like a thing where > it could be dangerous to be over-general, and where being > specific to emergency calling services would be a good > restriction. I would not like "service=3Durn:advertising" to be > something that'd work here. (At least not without > consideration of how that could be used for ad blocking:-) > The registry from RFC5031 does however seem to control that > correctly (via standards action or ECRIT WG/IESG review) so I > think it'd be better here to say that the service URN MUST be > in that specific registry. If that is already in the text > that's fine, but I didn't read it as quite having that MUST. >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Feb 10 10:08:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D037B1B2E8A; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 10:08:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160210180827.4513.5183.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 10:08:27 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing@ietf.org, alcoop@cisco.com, ecrit@ietf.org, The IESG , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ecrit-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] Protocol Action: 'A Routing Request Extension for the HELD Protocol' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05.txt) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:08:28 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'A Routing Request Extension for the HELD Protocol' (draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing-05.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ben Campbell, Barry Leiba and Alissa Cooper. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-held-routing/ Technical Summary For cases where location servers have access to emergency routing information they are able to return routing information with the location information if the location request includes a request for the desired routing information. This document specifies an extension to the HELD protocol to support this function. Working Group Summary Was there anything in WG process that is worth noting? For example, was there controversy about particular points or were there decisions where the consensus was particularly rough? There was significant work group participation in discussion of the approach taken within the draft, since it introduces a different way to use the HELD protocol, which originally was designed exclusively to convey location information. There were some controversies noted on the list, and all dialogues were efficiently attended to during the development stage. One final objection was noted and addressed by the draft author, with no follow up provided by the commenter, despite ample opportunity/time to do so. A successful development progression is documented in the ECRIT work group minutes and in email list archives. Document Quality No existing implementations are known to exist. There have been several vendors that have been involved in the development and review of the document. Personnel Document shepherd is Roger Marshall. Area Director is Alissa Cooper. From nobody Tue Feb 16 09:26:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4801B2EA7 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:26:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.099 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_PAIN=2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A2Nt3WmvCB7Y for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0654.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::654]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C8331B301E for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from SN1PR17MB0366.namprd17.prod.outlook.com (10.163.223.143) by SN1PR17MB0367.namprd17.prod.outlook.com (10.163.223.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.409.15; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:25:39 +0000 Received: from SN1PR17MB0366.namprd17.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.223.143]) by SN1PR17MB0366.namprd17.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.223.143]) with mapi id 15.01.0409.017; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:25:39 +0000 From: Dan Banks To: James Winterbottom , "Rosen, Brian" Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Review of draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 Thread-Index: AdFgV/QAum/jF5RrSNqGWnxZlEc+ggANhAMA//+fwK2AAAQSgIAAAYMAgAAGZACAAAGrAIAAD1cAgAEvlICAAB1JAIABvniAgAALTICAAW2/AIAAApaAgAC88oD/9G4RAA== Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:25:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8CAD3E98-F793-4731-BCF3-DBF5D7854CA3@gmail.com> <8855AC1B-749A-4AA9-9BAE-8946EA572DCC@gmail.com> <2A1939EA-B984-4AC2-A991-4F4745C5F565@neustar.biz> 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ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C431ACCE5 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:39:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id znw6APv9UYg5 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1E3A1AC43A for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2016 15:39:19 -0800 (PST) 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4c0f48ba-5f29-44b1-b29c-1aff8251101b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR17MB0365 Archived-At: Subject: [Ecrit] comments on draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 23:39:27 -0000 --_000_SN1PR17MB036612A4B0448760B2573775A7AD0SN1PR17MB0366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01 and believe the functi= onality described will be useful. The existing validation portion of a LoS= T response carries limited information that is not always helpful in resolv= ing issues with invalid locations. I do have a few comments that follow be= low. The introduction states, in part: The use of this protocol extension will reduce user and system input errors, and will result in a higher level of civic address matching, reducing the number of mismatch errors, where a civic address that appears to be valid gets wrongly associated with the physical location of the caller. I think it would be better to say that this protocol extension will facilit= ate the correction of errors, and allow location servers to be more easily = provisioned with complete address information. This may be splitting hairs= , but to reduce input errors from the beginning, I think it would be necess= ary to implement guided data entry - something like the auto-complete text = boxes on popular search/mapping websites - and I do not see this draft bein= g especially helpful for something like that. I also do not believe that t= his draft will be very helpful in preventing valid - but incorrect - civic = addresses from being associated with a caller. In section 2: 1) The definitions for Civic Location and Street Address reference the= concepts of a grid and basemap. While some addressing schemes may in fact= be based on a grid, my experience is that this tends to not be the case. = Except in cases where the element happens to reference a grid (or= ), there are not any civic address elements that specifically grid-o= riented. While the house numbers assigned along a road may sometimes also = align with a grid, that is usually of secondary importance. Without furthe= r definition, I think it is also troublesome to use the term "basemap". I = suggest replacing ". . . to designates a place within a defined grid or bas= emap" with ". . . to designate a specific place within a region of geograph= y, or a region of geography by itself." I am also concerned that we may be= redefining civic location needlessly, and should simply leave the definiti= on as a reference to RFC 5139, as is done in LoST itself. 2) The definitions for Invalid and Valid do not seem to be helpful to = me. These are referencing the valid and invalid categories defined in RFC5= 222, but seem to be vague restatements of the definitions. I do, however, = think that we should clarify and tweak the normative definitions of these e= lements, including the element. I'm not familiar enough with t= he process to know if this draft is the appropriate place to do that, but i= t seems relevant. 3) While this definition of Invalid Location is appropriate to the ver= y narrow case that is described, it does not even encompass all cases of in= valid location within LoST. I see this potentially leading to confusion. = We may wish to explicitly call out the distinction between the case where e= lements are marked as invalid and the cases where a locationInvalid or notF= ound error are returned. 4) The definition of Valid Location needs to also account for the poss= ibility of some elements being unchecked. 5) In the definition of Similar Location, the pronoun "which" after th= e comma could be unclear. I understand which location is being referred to= , but an unfamiliar reader may be confused. 6) The definition of Returned Location Information here seems redundan= t, but if kept, could be simplified to say something more like "A set of ci= vic locations returned in a LoST response." I specifically wish to avoid s= aying "standard . . . elements" because that seems to exclude the return of= extended elements. The language in section 4 should also be made consiste= nt. Section 4 also contains the only reference to the civic location profi= le. I think it is a good idea to explicitly state somewhere that this enti= re extension only applies to responses generated for queries containing loc= ation in the civic profile, and reference the definition in RFC 5222. Howe= ver, we may also want to consider allowing RLI in other profiles that are d= erived from the baseline civic profile in addition to the civic profile its= elf. Section 3 is titled overview, but then goes into significant detail. So mu= ch so that the remaining sections contain little more than examples and sch= ema. Consider reorganizing. In some cases, it might be dangerous to assume that an underspecified locat= ion really is the "complete" location that an LoST server identifies as the= best match. I think the language that states that the server MAY return c= omplete location information is in alignment with this concern, but perhaps= caution could should be advised. In the last paragraph of page 5, the text seems to define a "valid location= response". While I understand the intent, there really is no such thing, = and I would prefer to avoid this language in favor of being more precise. = I suggest "In a LoST indicating a valid location - i.= e. containing a element with no elements listed as inv= alid - the element MAY be extended to include addition= al location information . . . " In the discussion about returning a complete location, I think it should al= so say something to the effective of " the complete location SHOULD NOT con= tain any elements that would be marked as invalid, or cause an error, if a = recipient of that location performs a subsequent findService request using = the complete location." I'm only hesitant about making this a MUST NOT bec= ause the conditions for returning CLI state SHOULD only happen when there a= re only valid elements. Also, the existing condition should be changed to = allow unchecked elements, consistent with my earlier comments. The examples given show missing A1 and country elements, and I think this i= s a bad example. While it might be theoretically ok if there is only one S= eattle in the world, there are practical issues that would need to be addre= ssed to make this possible (e.g., listing a coverage region for Seattle in = the forest guide). Also, the example on page 8 does show A1 as an input, b= ut does not include it in the list in the response. The examples in section 3 also are shown as a traditionally written address= , which may aid in understanding the general concepts, but also leaves ambi= guities (such as A3 v. PCN). I think this might be ok because the XML exam= ples later show all of the elements, but it may be better reorganize and ei= ther move the XML examples closer to the text describing the scenarios, or = find a way to eliminate the ambiguities entirely. Another note about the examples: the addresses as shown are not consistent = with CLDXF (civic address usage profile for the U.S.) I would like to see one or more parameters added to the reque= st to ask for similar or complete location info. In certain scenarios, the= client may not want to receive this info. As a specific example, as a loc= ation server, when I am doing bulk validation of many records, I have no in= terest in similar locations. I only need that data once I have a human in = front of a screen who can evaluate it and take action, and I would submit a= request to get a fresh response at that time. The schema in section 7 has a few issues: 1) completeLocation and similarLocation are defined by name in the sch= ema, but consist of 1 or more elements simply named . This is no= t consistent with the examples and appears to be a cut/paste mistake from R= FC 5222. These definitions also include the 'id' attribute, which is not o= therwise described here (and probably not useful). 2) The locationInformation definition includes a profile attribute. C= onsidering my comment #6 about section 2, this would be appropriate if we a= llow RLI in multiple profiles, but otherwise is not described in the curren= t draft. 3) The locationInformation definition includes an apparent error also = present in RFC 5222. notLost =3D element * - (ns1:* | ns1:*) { anyElement } should be notRLI =3D element * - (ns1:* | local:*) { anyElement } with a prior definition of namespace local =3D "" and description of "Any element not in the LoST-RLI namespa= ce" or similar. I believe the schema in RFC 5222 was intended to exclude th= e local namespace as well, and the non-normative schema in XML syntax is co= nsistent with that (at odds with the normative schema in compact form). If= we can do a normative update of RFC 5222 with this document, I would like = to see this fixed (and if we can, the other previously reported errata pert= aining to the schema as well). The title of section 9.2 should specify the LoST-RLI namespace (not simply = LoST), and the element appears to contain a copy/paste error: <titl= e>LoST Planned Change Namespace. Dan Banks --_000_SN1PR17MB036612A4B0448760B2573775A7AD0SN1PR17MB0366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have reviewed draft-ietf-ecrit-similar-location-01= and believe the functionality described will be useful.  The existing= validation portion of a LoST response carries limited information that is = not always helpful in resolving issues with invalid locations.  I do have a few comments that follow below.<= o:p>

 

The introduction states, in part:

   The use of this protocol extension will= reduce

   user and system input errors, and will = result in a higher level of

   civic address matching, reducing the nu= mber of mismatch errors, where

   a civic address that appears to be vali= d gets wrongly associated with

   the physical location of the caller.

 

I think it would be better to say that this protocol= extension will facilitate the correction of errors, and allow location ser= vers to be more easily provisioned with complete address information. = This may be splitting hairs, but to reduce input errors from the beginning, I think it would be necessary to implemen= t guided data entry - something like the auto-complete text boxes on popula= r search/mapping websites - and I do not see this draft being especially he= lpful for something like that.  I also do not believe that this draft will be very helpful in preventing v= alid – but incorrect – civic addresses from being associated wi= th a caller.

 

In section 2:

1)      The definitions for Civic Location and Street Addre= ss reference the concepts of a grid and basemap.  While some addressin= g schemes may in fact be based on a grid, my experience is that this tends = to not be the case.  Except in cases where the <ADDCODE> element happens to reference a grid (or <SEAT= >), there are not any civic address elements that specifically grid-orie= nted.  While the house numbers assigned along a road may sometimes als= o align with a grid, that is usually of secondary importance.  Without further definition, I think it is also troubleso= me to use the term “basemap”.  I suggest replacing “= . . . to designates a place within a defined grid or basemap” with &#= 8220;. . . to designate a specific place within a region of geography, or a region of geography by itself.”  I am also concerned that we = may be redefining civic location needlessly, and should simply leave the de= finition as a reference to RFC 5139, as is done in LoST itself.<= /p>

 

2)      The definitions for Invalid and Valid do not seem t= o be helpful to me.  These are referencing the valid and invalid categ= ories defined in RFC5222, but seem to be vague restatements of the definiti= ons.  I do, however, think that we should clarify and tweak the normative definitions of these elements, including t= he <unchecked> element.  I’m not familiar enough with the = process to know if this draft is the appropriate place to do that, but it s= eems relevant.

 

3)      While this definition of Invalid Location is approp= riate to the very narrow case that is described, it does not even encompass= all cases of invalid location within LoST.  I see this potentially le= ading to confusion.  We may wish to explicitly call out the distinction between the case where elements are marked as inv= alid and the cases where a locationInvalid or notFound error are returned.<= o:p>

 

4)      The definition of Valid Location needs to also acco= unt for the possibility of some elements being unchecked. 

 

5)      In the definition of Similar Location, the pronoun = “which” after the comma could be unclear.  I understand wh= ich location is being referred to, but an unfamiliar reader may be confused= .

 

6)      The definition of Returned Location Information her= e seems redundant, but if kept, could be simplified to say something more l= ike “A set of civic locations returned in a LoST response.”&nbs= p; I specifically wish to avoid saying “standard . . . elements” because that seems to exclude the return of extended= elements.  The language in section 4 should also be made consistent.&= nbsp; Section 4 also contains the only reference to the civic location prof= ile.  I think it is a good idea to explicitly state somewhere that this entire extension only applies to responses generated f= or queries containing location in the civic profile, and reference the defi= nition in RFC 5222.  However, we may also want to consider allowing RL= I in other profiles that are derived from the baseline civic profile in addition to the civic profile itself.

 

Section 3 is titled overview, but then goes into sig= nificant detail.  So much so that the remaining sections contain littl= e more than examples and schema.  Consider reorganizing.

 

In some cases, it might be dangerous to assume that = an underspecified location really is the “complete” location th= at an LoST server identifies as the best match.  I think the language = that states that the server MAY return complete location information is in alignment with this concern, but perhaps caution could s= hould be advised.

 

In the last paragraph of page 5, the text seems to d= efine a “valid location response”.  While I understand the= intent, there really is no such thing, and I would prefer to avoid this la= nguage in favor of being more precise.  I suggest “In a LoST <findServiceResponse> indicating a valid location – i.e= . containing a <locationValidation> element with no elements listed a= s invalid – the <locationValidation> element MAY be extended to= include additional location information . . . “

 

In the discussion about returning a complete locatio= n, I think it should also say something to the effective of “ the com= plete location SHOULD NOT contain any elements that would be marked as inva= lid, or cause an error, if a recipient of that location performs a subsequent findService request using the complete= location.”  I’m only hesitant about making this a MUST NO= T because the conditions for returning CLI state SHOULD only happen when th= ere are only valid elements.  Also, the existing condition should be changed to allow unchecked elements, consistent with m= y earlier comments.

 

The examples given show missing A1 and country eleme= nts, and I think this is a bad example.  While it might be theoretical= ly ok if there is only one Seattle in the world, there are practical issues= that would need to be addressed to make this possible (e.g., listing a coverage region for Seattle in the forest g= uide).  Also, the example on page 8 does show A1 as an input, but does= not include it in the <valid> list in the response.

 

The examples in section 3 also are shown as a tradit= ionally written address, which may aid in understanding the general concept= s, but also leaves ambiguities (such as A3 v. PCN).  I think this migh= t be ok because the XML examples later show all of the elements, but it may be better reorganize and either move = the XML examples closer to the text describing the scenarios, or find a way= to eliminate the ambiguities entirely.

 

Another note about the examples: the addresses as sh= own are not consistent with CLDXF (civic address usage profile for the U.S.= )

 

I would like to see one or more parameters added to = the <findService> request to ask for similar or complete location inf= o.  In certain scenarios, the client may not want to receive this info= .  As a specific example, as a location server, when I am doing bulk validation of many records, I have no interest in sim= ilar locations.  I only need that data once I have a human in front of= a screen who can evaluate it and take action, and I would submit a request= to get a fresh response at that time.

 

The schema in section 7 has a few issues:=

1)      completeLocation and similarLocation are defined by= name in the schema, but consist of 1 or more elements simply named <loc= ation>.  This is not consistent with the examples and appears to be= a cut/paste mistake from RFC 5222.  These definitions also include the ‘id’ attribute, which is not othe= rwise described here (and probably not useful).

2)      The locationInformation definition includes a profi= le attribute.  Considering my comment #6 about section 2, this would b= e appropriate if we allow RLI in multiple profiles, but otherwise is not de= scribed in the current draft.

3)      The locationInformation definition includes an appa= rent error also present in RFC 5222.

notLost =3D eleme= nt * - (ns1:* | ns1:*) { anyElement }

should be

    &= nbsp;           notRLI = =3D element * - (ns1:* | local:*) { anyElement }

with a prior definition o= f

namespac= e local =3D ""

        &nbs= p;       and description of “Any elemen= t not in the LoST-RLI namespace” or similar.

        &nbs= p;       I believe the schema in RFC 5222 was= intended to exclude the local namespace as well, and the non-normative sch= ema in XML syntax is consistent with that (at odds with the normative schem= a in compact form).  If we can do a normative update of RFC 5222 with this document, I would like to see thi= s fixed (and if we can, the other previously reported errata pertaining to = the schema as well).

 

The title of section 9.2 should specify the LoST-RLI= namespace (not simply LoST), and the <title> element appears to cont= ain a copy/paste error: <title>LoST Planned Change Namespace</titl= e>.

 

Dan Banks

--_000_SN1PR17MB036612A4B0448760B2573775A7AD0SN1PR17MB0366namp_-- From nobody Fri Feb 19 16:56:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C75F1AE4CB; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:56:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160220005634.21112.83157.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:56:34 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-06.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:56:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies of the IETF. Title : Next-Generation Pan-European eCall Authors : Randall Gellens Hannes Tschofenig Filename : draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-06.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2016-02-19 Abstract: This document describes how to use IP-based emergency services mechanisms to support the next generation of the Pan European in- vehicle emergency call service defined under the eSafety initiative of the European Commission (generally referred to as "eCall"). eCall is a standardized and mandated system for a special form of emergency calls placed by vehicles. eCall deployment is required in the very near future in European Union member states, and eCall (and eCall- compatible systems) are also being deployed in other regions. eCall provides an integrated voice path and a standardized set of vehicle, sensor (e.g., crash related), and location data. An eCall is recognized and handled as a specialized form of emergency call and is routed to a specialized eCall-capable Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) capable of processing the vehicle data and trained in handling emergency calls from vehicles. Currently, eCall functions over circuit-switched cellular telephony; work on next-generation eCall (NG-eCall, sometimes called packet- switched eCall or PS-eCall) is now in process, and this document assists in that work by describing how to support eCall within the IP-based emergency services infrastructure. This document also registers a MIME Content Type and an Emergency Call Additional Data Block for the eCall vehicle data. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 19 16:57:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4754A1B36FC; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:56:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160220005658.18048.47261.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:56:58 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-06.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 00:56:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies of the IETF. Title : Next-Generation Vehicle-Initiated Emergency Calls Authors : Randall Gellens Brian Rosen Hannes Tschofenig Filename : draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-06.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2016-02-19 Abstract: This document describes how to use IP-based emergency services mechanisms to support the next generation of emergency calls placed by vehicles (automatically in the event of a crash or serious incident, or manually invoked by a vehicle occupant) and conveying vehicle, sensor, and location data related to the crash or incident. Such calls are often referred to as "Automatic Crash Notification" (ACN), or "Advanced Automatic Crash Notification" (AACN), even in the case of manual trigger. The "Advanced" qualifier refers to the ability to carry a richer set of data. This document also registers a MIME Content Type and an Emergency Call Additional Data Block for the vehicle, sensor, and location data (often referred to as "crash data" even though there is not necessarily a crash). An external specification for the data format, contents, and structure are referenced in this document. This document reuses the technical aspects of next-generation pan- European eCall (a mandated and standardized system for emergency calls by in-vehicle systems within Europe and other regions). However, this document specifies a different set of vehicle (crash) data, specifically, the Vehicle Emergency Data Set (VEDS) rather than the eCall Minimum Set of Data (MSD). This document is an extension of the eCall document, with the differences being that this document makes the MSD data set optional and VEDS mandatory. This document also discusses legacy (curcuit-switched) ACN systems and their migration to next-generation emergency calling. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 19 19:46:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFCA1B3538; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:46:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160220034652.8221.52331.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:46:52 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-07.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 03:46:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies of the IETF. Title : Next-Generation Pan-European eCall Authors : Randall Gellens Hannes Tschofenig Filename : draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-07.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2016-02-19 Abstract: This document describes how to use IP-based emergency services mechanisms to support the next generation of the Pan European in- vehicle emergency call service defined under the eSafety initiative of the European Commission (generally referred to as "eCall"). eCall is a standardized and mandated system for a special form of emergency calls placed by vehicles. eCall deployment is required in the very near future in European Union member states, and eCall (and eCall- compatible systems) are also being deployed in other regions. eCall provides an integrated voice path and a standardized set of vehicle, sensor (e.g., crash related), and location data. An eCall is recognized and handled as a specialized form of emergency call and is routed to a specialized eCall-capable Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) capable of processing the vehicle data and trained in handling emergency calls from vehicles. Currently, eCall functions over circuit-switched cellular telephony; work on next-generation eCall (NG-eCall, sometimes called packet- switched eCall or PS-eCall) is now in process, and this document assists in that work by describing how to support eCall within the IP-based emergency services infrastructure. This document also registers a MIME Content Type and an Emergency Call Additional Data Block for the eCall vehicle data. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ecrit-ecall-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Feb 19 19:47:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietf.org Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6B81B3538; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:47:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.14.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160220034713.14857.85518.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:47:13 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ecrit@ietf.org Subject: [Ecrit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-07.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 03:47:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies of the IETF. Title : Next-Generation Vehicle-Initiated Emergency Calls Authors : Randall Gellens Brian Rosen Hannes Tschofenig Filename : draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-07.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2016-02-19 Abstract: This document describes how to use IP-based emergency services mechanisms to support the next generation of emergency calls placed by vehicles (automatically in the event of a crash or serious incident, or manually invoked by a vehicle occupant) and conveying vehicle, sensor, and location data related to the crash or incident. Such calls are often referred to as "Automatic Crash Notification" (ACN), or "Advanced Automatic Crash Notification" (AACN), even in the case of manual trigger. The "Advanced" qualifier refers to the ability to carry a richer set of data. This document also registers a MIME Content Type and an Emergency Call Additional Data Block for the vehicle, sensor, and location data (often referred to as "crash data" even though there is not necessarily a crash). An external specification for the data format, contents, and structure are referenced in this document. This document reuses the technical aspects of next-generation pan- European eCall (a mandated and standardized system for emergency calls by in-vehicle systems within Europe and other regions). However, this document specifies a different set of vehicle (crash) data, specifically, the Vehicle Emergency Data Set (VEDS) rather than the eCall Minimum Set of Data (MSD). This document is an extension of the eCall document, with the differences being that this document makes the MSD data set optional and VEDS mandatory. This document also discusses legacy (curcuit-switched) ACN systems and their migration to next-generation emergency calling. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ecrit-car-crash-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 29 12:41:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1861B3BBE; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:39:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.006 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.006 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P0duDdg0b3po; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 424CE1B3BB6; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:38:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1456778338; x=1488314338; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version; bh=JQbYBqi26ievpaFWb7HofbM46R2sLrzlW1oclx08a8E=; b=aLCFAgmcWyHI00A0ND0JXD2UiJZZ7xgRBaDRtFu9cpPh6CAhmO3leFz8 Kf+RkCuTaxn+xbeMpjTt7QZ3/16i0sDQptGvsWH6Ip0pGRkeAMQ0R114Z zx7zsPGwoCPHi312slcqFlKgvtpEOO3jaBjEuewznpinqNlNlqUw8nZGk U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,521,1449561600"; d="scan'208,217";a="172797929" Received: from ironmsg03-l-new.qualcomm.com (HELO Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com) ([10.53.140.110]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Feb 2016 12:38:55 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5700,7163,8090"; a="1100938334" Received: from nasanexm01f.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.32]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 29 Feb 2016 12:38:55 -0800 Received: from [10.64.174.178] (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:38:55 -0800 From: Pete Resnick To: IETF Secretariat Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:38:53 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20160203095943.7789.12478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20160203095943.7789.12478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_C30480FF-F418-4589-9F67-BD9C161123ED_=" X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5226) X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8] X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) To NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:39:02 -0000 --=_MailMate_C30480FF-F418-4589-9F67-BD9C161123ED_= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Just FYI: We did an internal review of this disclosure and determined that it should not have been submitted. The secretariat has marked it as such. pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 On 3 Feb 2016, at 3:59, IETF Secretariat wrote: > Dear Brian Rosen, Hannes Tschofenig, Roger Marshall, Randall Gellens, > James Winterbottom: > > > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled > "Additional > Data Related to an Emergency Call" (draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data) > was > submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF > Page of > Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2748/). The title of the IPR > disclosure is > "QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to > draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data" > > > Thank you > > IETF Secretariat --=_MailMate_C30480FF-F418-4589-9F67-BD9C161123ED_= Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just FYI: We did an internal review of this disclosure an= d determined that it should not have been submitted. The secretariat has = marked it as such.

pr
--
Pete Resnick http://www.= qualcomm.com/~presnick/
Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478

On 3 Feb 2016, at 3:59, IETF Secretariat wrote:

Dear Brian Rosen, Hannes Tschofenig, Roger Marshall, Rand= all Gellens, James Winterbottom:

An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft en= titled "Additional
Data Related to an Emergency Call" (draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data) was=
submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Pa= ge of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.i= etf.org/ipr/2748/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data"

Thank you

IETF Secretariat

--=_MailMate_C30480FF-F418-4589-9F67-BD9C161123ED_=-- From nobody Mon Feb 29 23:50:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6D41A9301; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:50:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.606 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.606 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CEU5FI5Ew98Z; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C82A01ACD9F; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.10.131] ([80.92.123.193]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MDn8s-1aglCV1Hzy-00H5uI; Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:50:06 +0100 To: Pete Resnick References: <20160203095943.7789.12478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Hannes Tschofenig Openpgp: id=071A97A9ECBADCA8E31E678554D9CEEF4D776BC9 Message-ID: <56D549AE.4030200@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:50:06 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rS3INg8UkRfgGVx3FJJ6amO3EcGClkwcd" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:w0z4GDCUukSYnMVKpXfjolmMzxgP7dk8s00dij24XENfT/Fc9HH WeRRSc1zkk7dgmsgiQmMDHPpkzyYu3LOLXO39cD5VsgqbwUpiBV3QB/e6VCkI812ylcPhhz LHXbEc1yh6TvwKV0rrIp5vIj9C3+yvEZbAP3sRRR2huWrdtueW2mSE5x2UljPU616rjJWwM M29tjdGegndd1eG4KIgvw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:8f432uKE8l0=:ttw55PtHbUVQflcjpQBnaY 1bUAYb++Tnk/oQw8Cbzd7FniLG1fM63XbXJHWzuu+cOLrPAefFsE2hRPXUB6ktupXDyi8/xFv QRFflmEgA6SrPqij7muwCNkedeWQh+J3YuxeNX9Xf0hn18IQ5jU7RtsMeFT/zj8BcKQ8k9a6k X0QtHAq1tD7aHcknE5UCVLvCyp3cRdNOkt9fAtXDUzVbTqzjVaeS6RIxoIYTnUWEBQn5aDAlq /xCw7K55MIgc9kASN4vUx5rvWogDsD7hNH4h262SoDeYzMqqTEJdy+/jU7dHrpajfG6hBDcPL TJZhsqqbvfHDSIgntDRF5QgnsW5nA9xgGxVfr/fXEx312FYxafW+bFavt7MCwO611vRLHSvDE 2NVfir5Ir5cpgiBWSAkSdXjQlMseIV8Os/UN5BzMi08K/bbIF6GhxoDlvturp0xWoLJofCOdY K/ZatC1fhZ4WvZGS6VkZn/KZ8hUIbwg2VkB+14J6rb0QVqS2lgyV8prAK3GQdHPkDPnH21ify DtK+WGh6ooYKjFFoYbh2Up65ZzHcJ+a0HMW2Rae97cj2VlVh/oGZkHikPUKIEkBNc44jniZDZ MWcmUcVqZDAyp9v427e0wp+fbbwi3CYfC40HjoGKYL6E7Sd35e/JY1Cy7kkMT18aHz6pA3oTj og7t3ooM+XeWuau5gWWouvs6aKMcZ/508nbTVM54OQYYsYBKu9QhWaa7M186a5ZqeuMAES95R c4z20xoLFIRv9T8s8YmWhuW726ad8J9XDBoYWdSvL37acS1aLpf6eewXTDU= Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data@ietf.org, ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 07:50:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rS3INg8UkRfgGVx3FJJ6amO3EcGClkwcd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the update! This is good to hear. On 02/29/2016 09:38 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: > Just FYI: We did an internal review of this disclosure and determined > that it should not have been submitted. The secretariat has marked it a= s > such. >=20 > pr > --=20 > Pete Resnick http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/ > > Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 >=20 > On 3 Feb 2016, at 3:59, IETF Secretariat wrote: >=20 > Dear Brian Rosen, Hannes Tschofenig, Roger Marshall, Randall > Gellens, James Winterbottom: >=20 > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled > "Additional > Data Related to an Emergency Call" > (draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data) was > submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the > "IETF Page of > Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2748/). The title of the IPR > disclosure is > "QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to > draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data" >=20 > Thank you >=20 > IETF Secretariat >=20 --rS3INg8UkRfgGVx3FJJ6amO3EcGClkwcd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJW1UmuAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtklMH/RIUm+A+5IcQfXQraD/DxQtu mM0y5biej4w7JbApsO3ox+R1v796mh1J1lOCLLzpDk+xEmSf4J4ejBnAMha2Y3Oi MgiFx2Wahdfj22/3fE/5AudmLeynWB8n5vsZUx/EwgdQunr7VuHic4sF0jqqw9NH Beh5XzsAJV2ZTTdotMJNs3PSFHkJxZZiG+9In1dAItVe+NeutvqrYHwVuJpcdh33 axFOPKHIQdqwjn9RBj8AJtv6mdcXeJ0Nh1xzTgZ8wFG6v+RU3gE/MKvCrJcwqGUz HXR5ff3Pfin4nnIb+QmpJyPKMYhol/bBe25A5n3tbtqYGRyHKQ1cxnomBNuSQt0= =y6BC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rS3INg8UkRfgGVx3FJJ6amO3EcGClkwcd-- From nobody Mon Feb 29 23:54:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A4D11ABD8F; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:54:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2a6-wScFp86i; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 800251AC39C; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:54:13 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79096d000002f68-e0-56d54aa347da Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.84]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 50.74.12136.3AA45D65; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:54:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.73]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:54:11 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Hannes Tschofenig , Pete Resnick Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data Thread-Index: AQHRXmmdD+GuYZHVREWqZshiIKhk859DlNCAgAC7iQCAABG54A== Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 07:54:10 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37E4E371@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <20160203095943.7789.12478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <56D549AE.4030200@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <56D549AE.4030200@gmx.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprOIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iO5ir6thBrd6tS3am8+wWzQuespq sXTnPVaLK1dbmB1YPBZv2s/msWTJTyaPRVOfMQYwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlTOn+x1hwnadi /9zHTA2MfVxdjJwcEgImErMnrmWDsMUkLtxbD2YLCRxmlHj4S7SLkQvIXsQocfTnDeYuRg4O NgELie5/2iA1IgKxEis+z2QHqWEWaGKU2Hj+IQtIQligVuL6wT9MEEV1ElsPPIGynSTePDnI CmKzCKhIzO7fwQ5i8wr4SmxpvcYOsWw6o8Tr5v2MIMs4BdQlfh82AqlhBDru+6k1YHOYBcQl bj2ZzwRxtIDEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+xQtiKEu1PGxgh6nUkFuz+xAZha0ssW/iaGWKvoMTJmU9Y JjCKzUIydhaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKUbQ4tTgpN93ISC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzC6Dm75bbCD 8eVzx0OMAhyMSjy8G1ivhgmxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4d3qAhTiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3B oiTOy/rpcpiQQHpiSWp2ampBahFMlomDU6qBcevyKQ9XOFRcOvLFhmkZ++1j8kuvVwf+mvXs 8F9mTxl3gdcyX8tjz838Z73pVvp0xcmTzu0R+2NnO33J1u/eyZ4Nnx92ahoVqF78nfTAvqvM yDr3WvSv7aKvNJKrpyxa3PzQSkRQ4JPJ+XerLNJFtzXsLysrrwzL0OCdIPBu6Yx7//7Mzgsy VVRiKc5INNRiLipOBACFLHM0qgIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data@ietf.org" , "ecrit@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 07:54:15 -0000 Question for clarification: why is it good that disclosures are not submitt= ed? Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: Ecrit [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: 1. maaliskuuta 2016 9:50 To: Pete Resnick Cc: draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data@ietf.org; ecrit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ecrit] IPR Disclosure QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about= IPR related to draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data Thanks for the update! This is good to hear. On 02/29/2016 09:38 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: > Just FYI: We did an internal review of this disclosure and determined=20 > that it should not have been submitted. The secretariat has marked it=20 > as such. >=20 > pr > -- > Pete Resnick http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/ > > Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 >=20 > On 3 Feb 2016, at 3:59, IETF Secretariat wrote: >=20 > Dear Brian Rosen, Hannes Tschofenig, Roger Marshall, Randall > Gellens, James Winterbottom: >=20 > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled > "Additional > Data Related to an Emergency Call" > (draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data) was > submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the > "IETF Page of > Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2748/). The title of the IPR > disclosure is > "QUALCOMM Incorporated's Statement about IPR related to > draft-ietf-ecrit-additional-data" >=20 > Thank you >=20 > IETF Secretariat >=20