Subject: Re: [eman] new revision of eman requirements - Requirement 7.2

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:20:25 +0200

Hi Juergen,

That would be better to group the requirements in 7.x somehow logically, 
because, to be frank, I missed the 7.6.
I mean going from 7.2 to 7.6, you have completely different requirement 
interleaved.
We should group 7.2 and 7.6

Regards, Benoit (as a contributor)

> Hi Mouli,
>
> All that you miss is in requirement 7.6.
>
> Thanks,
>
>      Juergen
>
>
> Am 27.07.2011 um 00:16 schrieb Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan):
>
>> Hi Juergen,
>>
>> Requirement 7.2. Identity of other powered entities on which is reported
>>
>> Focuses on the Parent having knowledge of the children.
>>
>> It is also useful to add a requirement - in the other direction also.
>>
>> The energy management standard must provide means for specifying the
>> identity of the powered entity
>> Which shall monitor and report the power consumption of a given powered
>> entity.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mouli
>> _______________________________________________
>> eman mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/eman
> _______________________________________________
> eman mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/eman

---

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 07:18:01 +0000

Hi Benoit,

OK. I am fine either way.
But if we move 7.6 up, we should move 7.7 as well
(7.7 has a wrong title. To be changed for next vorsion.)

    Juergen

---

From: "Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 04:06:13 -0500

IMHO,   Req # 7.6 title can be renamed  - 

s/Indicating source of remote information/Identity of the device to
which information is reported to/

Thanks
Mouli

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Juergen Quittek
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:48 PM
To: Benoit Claise (bclaise); Juergen Quittek
Cc: eman mailing list
Subject: Re: [eman] new revision of eman requirements - Requirement 7.2

Hi Benoit,

    Juergen

---

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:13:29 +0200

Hi Mouli,

Sorry, I do not understand you new title suggestion:

The current title

    Indicating source of remote information

refers to indicating WHERE (at which device) information on an entity or device can be found.
For example, a switch may point to its parent PDU that controls its power supply 
and that has a MIB module where the state of its sockets is reported (power "on" or "off").
 
If we rename it to 

    Identity of the device to which information is reported to

then we are at something completely different. 
Who would report to whom? 
Would the switch report to the PDU?

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: "Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 04:25:27 -0500

Hi Juergen,

We have requirement 7.2.  Identity of other powered entities on which is
reported - which talks about identities of the children. 

My initial comment was we may also need to consider the reverse
direction of 7.2. i.e. the powered entities need to indicate the
identity of the device 
to which information is reported. You had indicated requirement 7.6.
Reading the requirement again, I felt the title can be rephrased. 

Thanks
Mouli

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Quittek [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:43 PM
To: Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)
Cc: Juergen Quittek; Benoit Claise (bclaise); eman mailing list
Subject: Re: [eman] new revision of eman requirements - Requirement 7.2

Hi Mouli,

The current title

refers to indicating WHERE (at which device) information on an entity or
device can be found.
For example, a switch may point to its parent PDU that controls its
power supply 
and that has a MIB module where the state of its sockets is reported
(power "on" or "off").
 
If we rename it to 

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 11:29:03 +0200

Hi Mouli,

You talk about the identity of the device "TO WHICH" information is reported.

Again, why would a switch as a child report anything to its parent PDU 
that measures and reports power values for the switch?

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: "Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 05:14:57 -0500

Hi Juergen,

If you consider the scenario of a PC ( a child) that is powered from a
wall outlet but still the PC can report its energy consumption to a
switch. 
In that scenario, the PC can indicate the identity of the switch to
which the power consumption data can be reported. 

Thanks
Mouli

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Quittek [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:59 PM
To: Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)
Cc: Juergen Quittek; Benoit Claise (bclaise); eman mailing list
Subject: Re: [eman] new revision of eman requirements - Requirement 7.2

Hi Mouli,

You talk about the identity of the device "TO WHICH" information is
reported.

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 12:24:45 +0200

Yes, you talk about relaying power information.
That is possible as well. 

But a standard should also cover both cases.
Your rephrasing of the title would eliminate one case, 
the one that I sketched in the email below. The phrase 
that we currently use in the requirements draft covers both cases.
Ans we want to cover both cases.

    Juergen

---

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:15:44 -0700

Hi Benoit,

Maybe we can argue for a long time what is more logical or less logical :-)

The current logic is:  7.1 - 7.5  are requirements for reporting from the parent,
7.6 and 7.7 are requirements for reporting from the child. But If you like I can
drop the parent-child logic here. 

7.1 report on others
7.2 identify the others on which you report
7.3 if you report a single value belonging to multiple other, list all of them.
7.4 list all you report anything on 
7.5 list what you can report on others
7.6 identify who reports on you
7.7 state what does who report on you

What would be your preferred order?

7.1 report on others
7.2 identify the others on which you report
7.6 identify who reports on you
7.7 state what does who report on you
7.3 if you report a single value belonging to multiple other, list all of them.
7.4 list all you report anything on 
7.5 list what you can report on others

What I would not like (but could accept) here is the separation of 7.2 and 7.3
7.2 says if you report a single value on another entity then you should have
means to identify the one you report on.
7.3 says the same thing just for the case that the quantity you report is 
accumulated, for example by metering at a PDU socket to which two 
host are connected.
I think these two are closely related, much more than 7.2 and 7.3.

By the way, I think we should add a requirement 
between 7.6 and 7.7:  List all others that report on you.

I tried to clarify the parent child grouping by rephrasing the requirements 
and added the one mentioned above, please see below. It is still in the
old order. but I am fine to change it.

7.1.  Reports on other powered entities

   The energy management standard must provide means for a powered
   entitiy to report energy-related information on another powered
   entity.

7.2.  Identity of other powered entities on which is reported

   For entities that report on one or more other entities, the energy
   management standard must provide means for reporting the identity of
   another powered entity on which energy-related information is
   reported.

7.3.  Reporting quantities accumulated over multiple powered entities

   For entities that report quantities accumulated over multiple powered
   entities, the energy management standard must provide means for
   reporting the list of all powered entities from which contributions
   are included in an accumulated value.

7.4.  List of all powered entities on which is reported

   For entities that report on one or more other entities, the energy
   management standard must provide means for reporting the list of all
   other powered entities on which energy-related information can be
   reported.

7.5.  Content of reports on other powered entities

   For entities that report on one or more other entities, the energy
   management standard must provide means for indicating which energy-
   related information it can report for which other powered entity.

7.6.  Indicating source of remote information

   For entities that have one or more other entities reporting on them,
   the energy management standard must provide means for indicating the
   other entities.

7.7.  Indicating source of remote information

   For entities that have one or more other entities reporting on them,
   the energy management standard must provide means for reporting the
   list of all other entities that report on them.

7.8.  Indicating content of remote information

   For entities that have one or more other entities reporting on them,
   the energy management standard must provide means for indicating the
   content that other entities can report on them.

Thanks,

    Juergen