Subject: [eman] Jevon's paradox - The Efficiency Dilemma

From: "Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 05:44:34 -0500

If our machines use less energy, will we just use them more?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/20/101220fa_fact_owen

Interesting historical perspective on energy.

Mouli

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From: Bruce Nordman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:46:25 -0700

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan) <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>  If our machines use less energy, will we just use them more?****
>
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>
> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/20/101220fa_fact_owen****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>

If this were true, then presumably making devices less efficient would cause
us
to use them less - so would that then be better?

That service output is not static is well known in energy efficiency
circles.  It is
commonly called the "takeback effect" - e.g. if a building is better
insulated, then
people can more cheaply get to their "optimal" temperature and so change the
heating/cooling setpoints towards that.  That is, people are investing some
of
the efficiency savings in higher quality of life.  Energy efficiency people
are in
general not opposed to raising quality of life - on the contrary, doing so
is often
part of a package of good benefits for efficiency measures.

Suppose I want to buy a big TV, and the lifetime energy use is a third the
purchase price.  If I cut the energy consumption by a third, then the total
cost of having the TV drops by about 10%, so maybe I take that and instead
by a 10% bigger TV raising the energy use by 10%.  I am still considerably
ahead in energy use, even after getting a bigger TV, so this "takeback" is
not a problem of the policy - it is a feature.

The New Yorker article quotes Lee Schipper.  He studied such issues very
extensively (and was a colleague/friend, and unfortunately passed away last
month).

The inter-relationship between efficiency, demand, and services provided are
very real - it is just that they are not a fundamental problem for
efficiency
technologies and policies.

--Bruce

> ****
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> Mouli****
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-- 
*Bruce Nordman*
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
eetd.lbl.gov/ea/nordman
[email-masked]
510-486-7089
m: 510-501-7943

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From: Kurt Muehmel <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:31:40 +0200

That’s a very good summary, Bruce.

If anyone is interested in more background on the subject, I was on the team
that completed a study for the European Commission a few months ago that
includes quite a complete literature review and summary of the state of the
art (as well as policy recommendations, etc.) It can be downloaded here:
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/eussd/pdf/rebound_effect_report.pdf

The conclusion is essentially what Bruce said, the rebound effect is real,
but it does not mean that efficiency improvements are ineffective, it just
means you don’t get the entire gain that you may expect from a purely
technical perspective.

Kurt Muehmel

<http://en.biois.com/>

[email-masked]
Skype: kurt.muehmel
Tel: +331 53 90 11 80
Fax: +331 56 53 99 90
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Energy - reducing our needs through improved
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*From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] *On
Behalf Of *Bruce
Nordman
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:46 AM
*To:* Mouli Chandramouli (moulchan)
*Cc:* [email-masked]
*Subject:* Re: [eman] Jevon's paradox - The Efficiency Dilemma

--Bruce

Mouli