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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Cc: Claudio.Allocchio@elettra.trieste.it
Subject: Our status for San Diego meeting
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From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

San Diego meeting is coming.

Please read this mail carefully.

First, I would like to draw your attention to the following
important days from IETF Web site.

--------------
November 17 - Working Group and BOF scheduling closes at 17:00 ET 
November 17 - Internet Draft Cut-off for inital document (-00) submissions 
November 24 - Internet-Draft final submission cutoff date at 17:00 ET 
December 1 - Pre-Registration and Pre-payment cutoff date at 12:00 ET 
December 4 - Working Group agendas due date by 17:00 ET 
December 6 - Registration Cancellation cutoff date by 17:00 ET 
December 10 - 15, 2000 - 49th IETF Meeting 
January 12 - Proceedings submission cutoff date by 17:00 ET 

THURSDAY, December 14, 2000
0900-1130 Morning Sessions
      APP      fax       Internet Fax WG
--------------

The deadline for I-D is Nov 24. It is Nov 17 for -00.

..................................................................

Next, the I-Ds and the issues that we are discussing.

1 FFPIM

There are new versions:
draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-01.txt
draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-03.txt

I think some pending issues are resolved in these versions
at my first glance. Others are not done. Anyway, there is progress.

I do not think the newer versions are announced by San Diego meeting.
So, you can read them Now. Please!
I will also be able to comment.

2 Impl. Guide

Within a few days, the new version(-04) is announced.
There are no pending issues. Editors(including me) almost finished it.
I think we can issue WG last-call after San Diego meeting.

3 Gateway

Editors are now preparing the updated version(-02). Also, at Pittsburgh
they suggested some issues in older version should move to
a separate document. It seems that they almost finished writing
the -00 version. Both will be announced next week, I think.

4 Tiff extension

There are the extension issues. They were introduced at Pittsburgh.
The formal initial(-00) version is not provided, although there is
draft-mcintyre-fax-tiff-fx-extension. I think McIntyre-san is preparing
it now. Please wait.

5 PNDN

At Pittsburgh, there were suggestions that PNDN is useful for ifax.
Editor roughly introduced it about two weeks ago in our ML.
There are no plans in our current charter,
but AD admits it can be included, if we need.

If someone is interested in PNDN, please say something ASAP.
The deadline for -00 version is Nov 17, as I said.
If none by Nov 14, we do not cover it in our WG, for the time being.
Is it acceptable? Any suggesions are welcome.

6 Status of pending Draft Standard

Claudio and I will report at San Diego.

Anyway, please read the I-Ds and the related threads in ML.
If there are comments for I-Ds, please say in SEPARATE thread.

.....................................................................

Finally, W.R.T. our agenda at San Diego,
by the middle of this month, Claudio or I will circulate it and
ask you for your comment.

.....

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-Chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Nov  1 17:22:59 2000
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From: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
To: "'David Yon'" <yon@dialout.net>, Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>,
        ietf-fax@imc.org
Cc: sip@lists.bell-labs.com, "'Glenn Parsons'" <gparsons@nortelnetworks.com>,
        "'Herman Silbiger'" <hsilbiger@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [SIP] RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 wit
	h SIP/SDP/ RTP
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:46:33 -0500 
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To all - 

The registration from ITU-T SG8 for IANA as related to SDP was related to
the 
Approval last February of Annex D to T.38, which defines how to use SIP/SDP 
with T.38 for facsimile session control.   T.38 needs to support both UDP
and TCP modes of operation, hence the need for the SDP extension to support
TCP (Glenn Parsons of Nortel was the editor).    

So, the methods for using TCP within SDP for T.38 session control purposes
have been  described in detail in the T.38 Annex D.   

So, I'd suggest that people who want to write ID's related to this, take a
look at what is in the T.38 Annex D (TIES users can read it as TD262rev2 in
the SG8 informal FTP area).   There is also a small amendment to T.38 annex
D (see Com8-114) which will be reviewed at the SG16 meeting during the week
of Nov 13-17. 

I just checked on the ITU site and notice that T.38 Amendment 2 is not
published yet, so the TD262rev2 above is the only access to that text at the
moment.  Hopefully, this will change soon.   

James

* -----------------------------------
James Rafferty
Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
jraff@brooktrout.com

Brooktrout Technology
410 First Avenue
Needham, MA 02494 USA
Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
Fax: 781-433-9268
www.brooktrout.com
Your Hook into the New Network(SM)    

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Yon [mailto:yon@dialout.net]
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:54 PM
> To: Jean-Francois Mule; ietf-fax@imc.org
> Cc: sip@lists.bell-labs.com
> Subject: Re: [SIP] RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38
> with SIP/SDP/ RTP
> 
> 
> I know that the I-D specifically defers the discussion of 
> media transport 
> using TCP rather than UDPTL, but at the same time it also 
> refers to a new 
> token "TCP" to be registered with IANA for use in SDP.  I am 
> of the opinion 
> that simply specifying "TCP" is insufficient to describe how 
> TCP-based 
> Media Transport is to be negotiated between two endpoints.
> 
> I've submitted an Internet Draft for the MMUSIC group which 
> will hopefully 
> be available in the IETF I-D area soon, but for the moment it 
> can be read here:
> 
ftp://ftp.dialout.net/drafts/draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-tcpmedia-00.txt

So, in regards to the SIP/T.38 I-D, my only comment would be that it take 
into account the I-D on SDP/TCP.  Or at the very least, participate with 
better defining the SDP/TCP I-D such that is meets the needs of SIP/T.38 
when using TCP for Media Transport.  As such, any comments on the I-D above 
would be greatly appreciated.

Again, hopefully the draft will be in the IETF area soon, I don't know why 
it is taking so long to work through the queue.

At 02:26 PM 10/27/00 -0700, Jean-Francois Mule wrote:
>There is an Internet-Draft on SIP and T.38 fax calls at
>http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mule-sip-t38callflows-00.txt
>It deals with how to negotiate a t.38 fax calls using sip as a signaling
>protocol (including switch over from audio/rtp to data/t38), the SDP
>attributes that itu-t sg-8 has registered with IANA.  Comments are
>appreciated on this Internet-Draft.
>
>


David Yon
Chief Technical Officer
Dialout.Net, Inc.
yon@dialout.net


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Nov  1 18:10:09 2000
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To: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>,
        Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>, ietf-fax@imc.org
From: David Yon <yon@dialout.net>
Subject: RE: [SIP] RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38
  wit h SIP/SDP/ RTP
Cc: sip@lists.bell-labs.com, "'Glenn Parsons'" <gparsons@nortelnetworks.com>,
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The draft of T.38 Annex-D I've read is here (can anyone point me to a more 
up-to-date draft?):

ftp://standards.nortelnetworks.com/itu_to_ietf/SG8/February00/

Based on that reading, the setup procedure of TCP is inextricably bridged 
between two protocols: SDP and SIP.  It says that SDP is used to declare 
that (a) TCP will be used, and (b) which port number to connect to.  But 
the direction of the call determines the direction of the TCP connection 
(callee must connect to caller, and caller must accept this connection), as 
this is not declared in SDP.  So now instead of having a complete 
description of the TCP behavior solely in the SDP packets, the context of 
the call must be known in order to correctly predict the behavior of the 
endpoints.

The I-D listed below addresses this problem, such that the behavior of the 
endpoints is fully described by the SDP exchange.

That said, T.38 Annex-D and the TCP/SDP I-D do not conflict in any major 
way.  The I-D defines that if the "direction" attribute is omitted, both 
sides are to attempt to establish connections.  If T.38 opts to set up the 
TCP connection based on call context in lieu of the "direction" attribute, 
that's probably not a huge discrepancy.  Anyone disagree?

What is notably missing from my copy if T.38 Annex-D is an example of a 
T.38 SIP exchange that specifies TCP.  The question I have is, what does 
the receiver of the call put into its return SDP packet if it is agreeing 
to use TCP?  Does it say "TCP"?  If so, what port number does it 
specify?  Presumably the sender knows to ignore this port number, yes?


At 04:46 PM 11/1/00 -0500, James Rafferty wrote:
>To all -
>
>The registration from ITU-T SG8 for IANA as related to SDP was related to
>the
>Approval last February of Annex D to T.38, which defines how to use SIP/SDP
>with T.38 for facsimile session control.   T.38 needs to support both UDP
>and TCP modes of operation, hence the need for the SDP extension to support
>TCP (Glenn Parsons of Nortel was the editor).
>
>So, the methods for using TCP within SDP for T.38 session control purposes
>have been  described in detail in the T.38 Annex D.
>
>So, I'd suggest that people who want to write ID's related to this, take a
>look at what is in the T.38 Annex D (TIES users can read it as TD262rev2 in
>the SG8 informal FTP area).   There is also a small amendment to T.38 annex
>D (see Com8-114) which will be reviewed at the SG16 meeting during the week
>of Nov 13-17.
>
>I just checked on the ITU site and notice that T.38 Amendment 2 is not
>published yet, so the TD262rev2 above is the only access to that text at the
>moment.  Hopefully, this will change soon.
>
>James
>
>* -----------------------------------
>James Rafferty
>Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
>jraff@brooktrout.com
>
>Brooktrout Technology
>410 First Avenue
>Needham, MA 02494 USA
>Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
>Fax: 781-433-9268
>www.brooktrout.com
>Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Yon [mailto:yon@dialout.net]
> > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 3:54 PM
> > To: Jean-Francois Mule; ietf-fax@imc.org
> > Cc: sip@lists.bell-labs.com
> > Subject: Re: [SIP] RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38
> > with SIP/SDP/ RTP
> >
> >
> > I know that the I-D specifically defers the discussion of
> > media transport
> > using TCP rather than UDPTL, but at the same time it also
> > refers to a new
> > token "TCP" to be registered with IANA for use in SDP.  I am
> > of the opinion
> > that simply specifying "TCP" is insufficient to describe how
> > TCP-based
> > Media Transport is to be negotiated between two endpoints.
> >
> > I've submitted an Internet Draft for the MMUSIC group which
> > will hopefully
> > be available in the IETF I-D area soon, but for the moment it
> > can be read here:
> >
>ftp://ftp.dialout.net/drafts/draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-tcpmedia-00.txt
>
>So, in regards to the SIP/T.38 I-D, my only comment would be that it take
>into account the I-D on SDP/TCP.  Or at the very least, participate with
>better defining the SDP/TCP I-D such that is meets the needs of SIP/T.38
>when using TCP for Media Transport.  As such, any comments on the I-D above
>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Again, hopefully the draft will be in the IETF area soon, I don't know why
>it is taking so long to work through the queue.
>
>At 02:26 PM 10/27/00 -0700, Jean-Francois Mule wrote:
> >There is an Internet-Draft on SIP and T.38 fax calls at
> >http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mule-sip-t38callflows-00.txt
> >It deals with how to negotiate a t.38 fax calls using sip as a signaling
> >protocol (including switch over from audio/rtp to data/t38), the SDP
> >attributes that itu-t sg-8 has registered with IANA.  Comments are
> >appreciated on this Internet-Draft.
> >
> >
>
>
>David Yon
>Chief Technical Officer
>Dialout.Net, Inc.
>yon@dialout.net
>
>


David Yon
Chief Technical Officer
Dialout.Net, Inc.
yon@dialout.net



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Implementers Guide for Facsimile Using Internet Mail
	Author(s)	: V. Cancio, M. Moldovan, H. Tamura, D. Wing
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt
	Pages		: 19
	Date		: 01-Nov-00
	
This document is intended for the implementers of software which uses email to send to facsimiles using RFC 2305 and 2532.
This is an informational document and its guidelines do not supersede the referenced documents.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
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--OtherAccess
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	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
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ENCODING mime
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--OtherAccess
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--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--




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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
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	Title		: Internet FAX Gateway Protocol
	Author(s)	: K. Mimura, K. Yokoyama, T. Satoh, C. Kanaide
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 02-Nov-00
	
An Internet FAX Gateway provides functions which translate facsimile
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This document provides information on recommended behaviors for 
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	Title		: Guideline of optional services for Internet FAX 
                          Gateway
	Author(s)	: K. Mimura, K. Yokoyama, T. Satoh,
                          K. Watanabe, C. Kanaide
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00.txt
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To: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
cc: mjh@aciri.org, Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
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Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:32:19 -0600
Subject: RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP
	/RTP
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James,

Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.

In my desire to keep my request for information short, I mis-used the terms
simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not completely accurate
context for my request. Let me clarify.

As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted over the PSTN. By using
that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for information had
something to do with faxes.

And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our store-and-forward fax
and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 attachments for faxes to be
sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for faxes received from the
PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had something to do with
faxes.

I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.

And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses TCP and UDPTL, not
RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of such sessions is
already standardized or is proposed.

While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful transport protocols for
T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a transport protocol for
T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we would like to see
standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would require two things:
o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
Here specifically is one place where I was looking for information on anyone
that has already done work in this area or is interested in doing so. I think
this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but I
might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it should appropriately
be done.

The one other area that we are also looking for work already done or folk
interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as defined, e.g., by
EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative to T.38 over any
transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already supported by many of our
products and the products of other vendors, but the establishment of sessions
between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax over TCP is handled by
non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to standardize this so
that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such sessions and multiple
vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the protocols are all
defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think this work also might
appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but am open to other
suggestions.

I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already working in these areas
or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If anyone is interested,
perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a few weeks to discuss
this further.

Thank you in advance for your attention to this.

Jim Renkel
Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
3Com Carrier Networks Business







James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM

Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>


To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
cc:
Subject:  RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP



James,

Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.

See my comments below:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
> To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> SIP/SDP/RTP
>
>
>
>
> The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
> is working on
> extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
> greater functionality
> and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
> real-time
> facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
> facsimile applications
> systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
>
> Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
> done or anyone that
> has done or is doing work in the areas of:
> o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
> and other transport
> protocols;
this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,

1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
here to RTP, which is on the packet side.

2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and the transport
is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the technical details
are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are referenced by T.37
(my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
info on the About Internet fax link)

3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time over packet
networks.
Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet methods which are
specified
in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes specifying operation
with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe the annex for use
with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T SG16 meeting in
Geneva.

At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and data over IP and
PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the related standards
developments.

I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.

Regards,

James Rafferty

* -----------------------------------
James Rafferty
Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
jraff@brooktrout.com

Brooktrout Technology
410 First Avenue
Needham, MA 02494 USA
Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
Fax: 781-433-9268
www.brooktrout.com
Your Hook into the New Network(SM)




> and
> o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
>
> Any information you have on this would be greatly
> approciated. Thank you in
> advance for your attention to this.
>
> Jim Renkel
> Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
> 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>
>






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Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:17:11 -0500
From: Herman Silbiger <hsilbiger@home.com>
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To: James_Renkel@3com.com
CC: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>, mjh@aciri.org,
        Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
        frederick@parc.xerox.com, van@ee.lbl.gov, scott.petrack@metatel.com,
        gk@acm.org, szilles@Adobe.COM, Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com,
        venable@wrc.xerox.com, Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca,
        Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net, c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk,
        Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it, tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp,
        ned.freed@innosoft.com, paf@cisco.com, ietf-fax@imc.org,
        Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>,
        Don Mactaggart <mactag@total.net>
Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/RTP
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James_R,

If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP the that would have to
be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for facsimile.  The next
meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put a contribution in to
that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the successor group to TR29.

The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.

Herman Silbiger

James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:

> James,
>
> Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
>
> In my desire to keep my request for information short, I mis-used the terms
> simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not completely accurate
> context for my request. Let me clarify.
>
> As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted over the PSTN. By using
> that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for information had
> something to do with faxes.
>
> And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our store-and-forward fax
> and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 attachments for faxes to be
> sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for faxes received from the
> PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had something to do with
> faxes.
>
> I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
>
> And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses TCP and UDPTL, not
> RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of such sessions is
> already standardized or is proposed.
>
> While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful transport protocols for
> T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a transport protocol for
> T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we would like to see
> standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would require two things:
> o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
> o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
> Here specifically is one place where I was looking for information on anyone
> that has already done work in this area or is interested in doing so. I think
> this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but I
> might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it should appropriately
> be done.
>
> The one other area that we are also looking for work already done or folk
> interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as defined, e.g., by
> EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative to T.38 over any
> transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already supported by many of our
> products and the products of other vendors, but the establishment of sessions
> between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax over TCP is handled by
> non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to standardize this so
> that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such sessions and multiple
> vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the protocols are all
> defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think this work also might
> appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but am open to other
> suggestions.
>
> I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already working in these areas
> or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If anyone is interested,
> perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a few weeks to discuss
> this further.
>
> Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
>
> Jim Renkel
> Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
> 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>
> James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
>
> Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
>
> To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
> cc:
> Subject:  RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP
>
> James,
>
> Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
> off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
> been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
>
> See my comments below:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
> > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> > SIP/SDP/RTP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
> > is working on
> > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
> > greater functionality
> > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
> > real-time
> > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
> > facsimile applications
> > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
> > done or anyone that
> > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
> > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
> > and other transport
> > protocols;
> this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
>
> 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
> fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
> here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
>
> 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
> where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and the transport
> is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the technical details
> are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are referenced by T.37
> (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
> info on the About Internet fax link)
>
> 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time over packet
> networks.
> Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet methods which are
> specified
> in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes specifying operation
> with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe the annex for use
> with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T SG16 meeting in
> Geneva.
>
> At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and data over IP and
> PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the related standards
> developments.
>
> I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
>
> Regards,
>
> James Rafferty
>
> * -----------------------------------
> James Rafferty
> Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
> jraff@brooktrout.com
>
> Brooktrout Technology
> 410 First Avenue
> Needham, MA 02494 USA
> Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
> Fax: 781-433-9268
> www.brooktrout.com
> Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
>
> > and
> > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
> >
> > Any information you have on this would be greatly
> > approciated. Thank you in
> > advance for your attention to this.
> >
> > Jim Renkel
> > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> >
> >



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Nov  3 18:35:10 2000
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From: David Duehren <dduehren@brooktrout.com>
To: "'hsilbiger@ieee.org'" <hsilbiger@ieee.org>, James_Renkel@3com.com
Cc: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>, mjh@aciri.org,
        Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
        frederick@parc.xerox.com, van@ee.lbl.gov, scott.petrack@metatel.com,
        gk@acm.org, szilles@Adobe.COM, Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com,
        venable@wrc.xerox.com, Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca,
        Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net, c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk,
        Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it, tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp,
        ned.freed@innosoft.com, paf@cisco.com, ietf-fax@imc.org,
        Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>,
        Don Mactaggart
	 <mactag@total.net>
Subject: RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/
	RTP
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:14:36 -0500 
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I won't be able to attend the SG16 meeting but I suggest discussing the use
of
SCTP as a compromise between UDP/RTP and TCP.

- David Duehren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herman Silbiger [mailto:hsilbiger@home.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:17 PM
> To: James_Renkel@3com.com
> Cc: James Rafferty; mjh@aciri.org; Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu;
> Schooler@cs.caltech.edu; frederick@parc.xerox.com; van@ee.lbl.gov;
> scott.petrack@metatel.com; gk@acm.org; szilles@Adobe.COM;
> Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com; venable@wrc.xerox.com;
> Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca; Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net;
> c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk; Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it;
> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp; ned.freed@innosoft.com; paf@cisco.com;
> ietf-fax@imc.org; Jean-Francois Mule; Don Mactaggart
> Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> SIP/SDP/RTP
> 
> 
> James_R,
> 
> If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP 
> the that would have to
> be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for 
> facsimile.  The next
> meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put 
> a contribution in to
> that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the 
> successor group to TR29.
> 
> The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.
> 
> Herman Silbiger
> 
> James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:
> 
> > James,
> >
> > Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
> >
> > In my desire to keep my request for information short, I 
> mis-used the terms
> > simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not 
> completely accurate
> > context for my request. Let me clarify.
> >
> > As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted 
> over the PSTN. By using
> > that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for 
> information had
> > something to do with faxes.
> >
> > And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our 
> store-and-forward fax
> > and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 
> attachments for faxes to be
> > sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for 
> faxes received from the
> > PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had 
> something to do with
> > faxes.
> >
> > I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
> >
> > And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses 
> TCP and UDPTL, not
> > RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of 
> such sessions is
> > already standardized or is proposed.
> >
> > While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful 
> transport protocols for
> > T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a 
> transport protocol for
> > T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we 
> would like to see
> > standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would 
> require two things:
> > o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
> > o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
> > Here specifically is one place where I was looking for 
> information on anyone
> > that has already done work in this area or is interested in 
> doing so. I think
> > this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX 
> working group, but I
> > might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it 
> should appropriately
> > be done.
> >
> > The one other area that we are also looking for work 
> already done or folk
> > interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as 
> defined, e.g., by
> > EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative 
> to T.38 over any
> > transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already 
> supported by many of our
> > products and the products of other vendors, but the 
> establishment of sessions
> > between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax 
> over TCP is handled by
> > non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to 
> standardize this so
> > that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such 
> sessions and multiple
> > vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the 
> protocols are all
> > defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think 
> this work also might
> > appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, 
> but am open to other
> > suggestions.
> >
> > I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already 
> working in these areas
> > or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If 
> anyone is interested,
> > perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a 
> few weeks to discuss
> > this further.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
> >
> > Jim Renkel
> > Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> >
> > James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
> >
> > Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
> >
> > To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
> > cc:
> > Subject:  RE: Request for information on using 
> T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP
> >
> > James,
> >
> > Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
> > off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
> > been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
> >
> > See my comments below:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
> > > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> > > SIP/SDP/RTP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
> > > is working on
> > > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
> > > greater functionality
> > > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
> > > real-time
> > > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
> > > facsimile applications
> > > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
> > > done or anyone that
> > > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
> > > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
> > > and other transport
> > > protocols;
> > this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
> >
> > 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
> > fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
> > here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
> >
> > 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
> > where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and 
> the transport
> > is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the 
> technical details
> > are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are 
> referenced by T.37
> > (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
> > info on the About Internet fax link)
> >
> > 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time 
> over packet
> > networks.
> > Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet 
> methods which are
> > specified
> > in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes 
> specifying operation
> > with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe 
> the annex for use
> > with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T 
> SG16 meeting in
> > Geneva.
> >
> > At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and 
> data over IP and
> > PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the 
> related standards
> > developments.
> >
> > I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > James Rafferty
> >
> > * -----------------------------------
> > James Rafferty
> > Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
> > jraff@brooktrout.com
> >
> > Brooktrout Technology
> > 410 First Avenue
> > Needham, MA 02494 USA
> > Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
> > Fax: 781-433-9268
> > www.brooktrout.com
> > Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
> >
> > > and
> > > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
> > >
> > > Any information you have on this would be greatly
> > > approciated. Thank you in
> > > advance for your attention to this.
> > >
> > > Jim Renkel
> > > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
> > > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> > >
> > >
> 


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Nov  3 18:44:36 2000
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To: hsilbiger@ieee.org
cc: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>, mjh@aciri.org,
        Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
        frederick@parc.xerox.com, van@ee.lbl.gov, scott.petrack@metatel.com,
        gk@acm.org, szilles@Adobe.COM, Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com,
        venable@wrc.xerox.com, Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca,
        Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net, c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk,
        Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it, tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp,
        ned.freed@innosoft.com, paf@cisco.com, ietf-fax@imc.org,
        Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>,
        Don Mactaggart <mactag@total.net>
Message-ID: <8825698C.007B68CE.00@hqoutbound.ops.3com.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 15:54:10 -0600
Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP
	/RTP
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Herman,

Thanks for your reply. You raise an interesting point we hadn't considered,
namely amending ITU T.38 to specify RTP as another transport protocol. And I
think you're right, we should probably consider that. Up until now, we had
thought it sufficient to simply define a T.38 RTP payload type in, e.g., an RFC.
But maybe a T.38 amendment is a better place for it.

I'll contact Jim Dahmen and see about getting involved with TR30.5. 3Com has a
long history with TR30.1 (V.32, V.34, V.90, V.91, V.92, etc.), so TR30.5 should
be a natural for us.

Again, thank you for your input, and I hope to see you in San Diego.

Jim





Herman Silbiger <hsilbiger@home.com> on 11/03/2000 03:17:11 PM

Please respond to hsilbiger@ieee.org

Sent by:  Herman Silbiger <hsilbiger@home.com>


To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
cc:   See Below
Subject:  Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/RTP



James_R,

If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP the that would have
to
be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for facsimile.  The next
meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put a contribution in
to
that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the successor group to TR29.

The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.

Herman Silbiger

James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:

> James,
>
> Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
>
> In my desire to keep my request for information short, I mis-used the terms
> simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not completely accurate
> context for my request. Let me clarify.
>
> As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted over the PSTN. By
using
> that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for information had
> something to do with faxes.
>
> And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our store-and-forward fax
> and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 attachments for faxes to be
> sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for faxes received from
the
> PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had something to do
with
> faxes.
>
> I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
>
> And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses TCP and UDPTL, not
> RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of such sessions is
> already standardized or is proposed.
>
> While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful transport protocols
for
> T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a transport protocol for
> T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we would like to see
> standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would require two things:
> o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
> o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
> Here specifically is one place where I was looking for information on anyone
> that has already done work in this area or is interested in doing so. I think
> this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but I
> might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it should
appropriately
> be done.
>
> The one other area that we are also looking for work already done or folk
> interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as defined, e.g., by
> EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative to T.38 over any
> transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already supported by many of our
> products and the products of other vendors, but the establishment of sessions
> between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax over TCP is handled
by
> non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to standardize this so
> that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such sessions and multiple
> vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the protocols are all
> defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think this work also might
> appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but am open to other
> suggestions.
>
> I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already working in these
areas
> or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If anyone is
interested,
> perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a few weeks to discuss
> this further.
>
> Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
>
> Jim Renkel
> Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
> 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>
> James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
>
> Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
>
> To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
> cc:
> Subject:  RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/
RTP
>
> James,
>
> Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
> off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
> been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
>
> See my comments below:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
> > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> > SIP/SDP/RTP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
> > is working on
> > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
> > greater functionality
> > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
> > real-time
> > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
> > facsimile applications
> > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
> > done or anyone that
> > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
> > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
> > and other transport
> > protocols;
> this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
>
> 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
> fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
> here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
>
> 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
> where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and the transport
> is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the technical details
> are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are referenced by T.37
> (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
> info on the About Internet fax link)
>
> 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time over packet
> networks.
> Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet methods which are
> specified
> in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes specifying operation
> with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe the annex for use
> with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T SG16 meeting in
> Geneva.
>
> At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and data over IP and
> PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the related standards
> developments.
>
> I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
>
> Regards,
>
> James Rafferty
>
> * -----------------------------------
> James Rafferty
> Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
> jraff@brooktrout.com
>
> Brooktrout Technology
> 410 First Avenue
> Needham, MA 02494 USA
> Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
> Fax: 781-433-9268
> www.brooktrout.com
> Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
>
> > and
> > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
> >
> > Any information you have on this would be greatly
> > approciated. Thank you in
> > advance for your attention to this.
> >
> > Jim Renkel
> > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> >
> >


cc: James Rafferty <Jraff @Brooktrout.Com>    Glenn.Parsons @Nortel.Ca
    Mjh @Aciri.Org                 Jrafferty @Worldnet.Att.Net
    Schulzrinne @Cs.Columbia.Edu   C.Perkins @Cs.Ucl.Ac.Uk
    Schooler @Cs.Caltech.Edu       Claudio.Allocchio @Garr.It
    Frederick @Parc.Xerox.Com      Tamura @Toda.Ricoh.Co.Jp
    Van @Ee.Lbl.Gov                Ned.Freed @Innosoft.Com
    Scott.Petrack @Metatel.Com     Paf @Cisco.Com
    Gk @Acm.Org                    Ietf-Fax @Imc.Org
    Szilles @Adobe.Com             Jean-Francois Mule <Jfmule @Clarent.Com>
    Rob_Buckley @Wb.Xerox.Com      Don Mactaggart <Mactag @Total.Net>
    Venable @Wrc.Xerox.Com





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Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:13:28 -0500
To: hsilbiger@ieee.org, James_Renkel@3com.com
From: Don Mactaggart <mactag@total.net>
Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
  SIP/SDP/RTP
Cc: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>, mjh@aciri.org,
        Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
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I strongly support a good look at RTP, and am willing to put it forward at
Geneva under
headings 1.1 and 3.1 of my TD to SG16. I was going to put a specific
reference to RTP,
but didn't know enough about its performance - and still don't.    --- Don


At 04:17 PM 00/11/03 -0500, Herman Silbiger wrote:
>James_R,
>
>If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP the that would
have to
>be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for facsimile.
The next
>meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put a
contribution in to
>that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the successor group to
TR29.
>
>The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.
>
>Herman Silbiger
>
>James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:
>
>> James,
>>
>> Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
>>
>> In my desire to keep my request for information short, I mis-used the terms
>> simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not completely accurate
>> context for my request. Let me clarify.
>>
>> As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted over the PSTN.
By using
>> that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for information had
>> something to do with faxes.
>>
>> And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our
store-and-forward fax
>> and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 attachments for faxes
to be
>> sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for faxes received
from the
>> PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had something to
do with
>> faxes.
>>
>> I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
>>
>> And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses TCP and
UDPTL, not
>> RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of such sessions is
>> already standardized or is proposed.
>>
>> While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful transport
protocols for
>> T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a transport
protocol for
>> T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we would like
to see
>> standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would require two
things:
>> o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
>> o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
>> Here specifically is one place where I was looking for information on
anyone
>> that has already done work in this area or is interested in doing so. I
think
>> this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group,
but I
>> might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it should
appropriately
>> be done.
>>
>> The one other area that we are also looking for work already done or folk
>> interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as defined, e.g., by
>> EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative to T.38 over any
>> transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already supported by many
of our
>> products and the products of other vendors, but the establishment of
sessions
>> between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax over TCP is
handled by
>> non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to standardize
this so
>> that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such sessions and
multiple
>> vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the protocols are all
>> defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think this work also
might
>> appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, but am open to
other
>> suggestions.
>>
>> I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already working in
these areas
>> or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If anyone is
interested,
>> perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a few weeks to
discuss
>> this further.
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
>>
>> Jim Renkel
>> Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
>> 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>>
>> James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
>>
>> Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
>>
>> To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
>> cc:
>> Subject:  RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
SIP/SDP/ RTP
>>
>> James,
>>
>> Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
>> off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
>> been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
>>
>> See my comments below:
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
>> > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
>> > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
>> > SIP/SDP/RTP
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
>> > is working on
>> > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
>> > greater functionality
>> > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
>> > real-time
>> > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
>> > facsimile applications
>> > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
>> >
>> > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
>> > done or anyone that
>> > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
>> > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
>> > and other transport
>> > protocols;
>> this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
>>
>> 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
>> fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
>> here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
>>
>> 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
>> where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and the transport
>> is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the technical details
>> are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are referenced by T.37
>> (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
>> info on the About Internet fax link)
>>
>> 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time over packet
>> networks.
>> Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet methods which are
>> specified
>> in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes specifying operation
>> with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe the annex for use
>> with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T SG16 meeting in
>> Geneva.
>>
>> At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and data over IP
and
>> PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the related standards
>> developments.
>>
>> I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> James Rafferty
>>
>> * -----------------------------------
>> James Rafferty
>> Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
>> jraff@brooktrout.com
>>
>> Brooktrout Technology
>> 410 First Avenue
>> Needham, MA 02494 USA
>> Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
>> Fax: 781-433-9268
>> www.brooktrout.com
>> Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
>>
>> > and
>> > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
>> >
>> > Any information you have on this would be greatly
>> > approciated. Thank you in
>> > advance for your attention to this.
>> >
>> > Jim Renkel
>> > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
>> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
--=====================_973318408==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

ITU - Telecommunication Standardization Sector      Temporary Doc 

Study Group 16
______________

Geneva, 13-17 November 2000

Question: fax/16

Source: Canada

Title: Review of Recommendation T.38 in Q4/SG8 and suggestions arising.

1. Abstract:

As the Study Group 8 alumni join Study Group 16, a review of some of the 
events  related  to real time fax-over-IP, and to the present  state  of 
ITU-T Recommendation T.38, may be useful. These events are summarized in 
the following section, and lead to the conclusions in this abstract:

1.1 TCP/IP should not be used, since T.30 session integrity can only  be 
    maintained  by extreme spoofing, which increases the  total  session 
    duration to a degree which is commercially unsupportable. This  also 
    applies to any other form of error correction by retransmission.

1.2 The  raw uncorrected error rate of the international  Internet  does 
    not support a viable T.30-based facsimile service.

1.3 Therefore,  to provide a real time international  facsimile  service 
    over  the  Internet, some form of forward error correction  must  be 
    implemented. For reasonable bandwidth consumption on the IP path and 
    acceptable quality of service, a greater degree of error  correction 
    is  required for facsimile control fields than for image  data,  and 
    this is easily implemented in practice since there is less FCF data.

1.4 With the characteristics indicated in paragraph 1.3, a viable public 
    international  fax-over-public-IP  service can be  implemented,  and 
    was.  No  alternative public FOIP service has been  implemented  and 
    documented, at time of writing.

1.5 The  present  text of Recommendation T.38(98) does not  resolve  the 
    above  issues at all, and certainly not in a manner explicit  enough 
    to   define  an  international  service  interoperable   between   a 
    multiplicity  of  implementors and service providers, as  is  to  be 
    expected of a viable ITU Recommendation.

1.6 The  above relates to the body of Recommendation T.38 e.g. the  FOIP 
    communication   process;  call  establishment  procedures  are   not 
    addressed in this contribution.


contact: Don Mactaggart, CyberFax Canada            tel: +1 514 485 1908
                                                    fax: +1 514 485 6321
                                                e-mail: mactag@total.net
                                - 2 -

2. History of fax-as-data services: FoGSTN, FoX.25, FoIP

2.1 FoGSTN: 

In  the  beginning of G3 facsimile, the data service accessible  to  the 
non-expert  public  with worldwide reach was the GSTN, as  seen  through 
APSK modems. Economy of scale, utility and ease of access were such that 
telex  was effectively  superseded in the 1985 to 1988 period.  Creation 
of message material was consistent with office procedure; sending it was 
comparable with GSTN or telex: dial number, press start.

The fax=phone transport equation suited many service providers, but  not 
all,  often for regulatory reasons as well as technical ones. Among  the 
technical reasons was that fax could tolerate satellite delay with  ease 
and data errors with difficulty, the reverse being true for speech.

Thus  a  technical  or  business case, or  both,  was  made  in  several 
jurisdictions  for a differentiated G3 fax service, for as much  of  the 
path  as made economic sense, albeit always terminating in  the  already 
dominant constituency of fax terminals, on a legacy "analog" path:

2.1.1 CNCP FacsRoute - Canada (1988)

      Initially, a store & forward fax service was provided over an X.25 
      data network, and presented to the market with all the traditional 
      "value added" arguments; it peaked at $2 million revenue and 2,000 
      subscribers.  A  year  later  the  regulator  allowed  real   time 
      FacsRoute,  which attracted $40 million and 50,000 subscribers  of 
      the  300,000 fax terminals then in Canada, doing so in  9  months. 
      Real  time FacsRoute was provided over a 64kbit/s bypass GSTN  via 
      "voice busters" which cut the dialed connection after a cumulative 
      70 seconds of speech per call: a remarkably "value subtracted" way 
      of  bringing a transcontinental 64kbit/s service to market, but  a 
      20-fold increase in business over the S&F FacsRoute Plus.

2.1.2 FaxStream - Telecom Australia

      Provided assured 64 kbit/s access and intercity trunk  connection. 
      FaxStream  and FacsRoute are believed to be the pioneer  dedicated 
      fax long distance services.

2.1.3 Mercury SureFax - United Kingdom

      When the access default was reversed to make real time SureFax the 
      default,  and  store & forward SureFax Plus  the  option,  traffic 
      increased 20-fold. Similar experiments by different  experimenters 
      seem to come up with 5% for S&F market share every time.

2.1.4 Hong Kong Tel - 002+ IDD Fax

      Provided a way of using excess satellite capacity, with the useful 
      added value of differentiating fax traffic on the monthly bill.
                                   - 3 -
 
2.2 FoX.25 (1990+)

By 1990, a GSTN circuit had evolved conceptually from 4kHz of  bandwidth 
to  64kbit/s  of data. Facsimile bits were being  transported  in  great 
numbers  at 9600 bit/s on 64 kbit/s channels for reasons of  convenience 
and  history;  X.25/X.75  was the then-established  way  of  statistical 
multiplexing of digital data. Thus begat ITU Recommendation X.38. In its 
way,  X.38 was a technically successful operation, but the  patient  has 
not survived:

2.2.1 Error correction by retransmission: required extreme spoofing; not       
      much point in halving the tolls if the calls take twice as long.

2.2.2 Accounting  rates for public data service: negated  the  technical 
      accomplishment  of  exploiting the fact that shared  services  are 
      more effective for all.

***   And so, the few X.38/X.25 FoX.25 services that survived did so on
      dedicated leased circuits.

***   And  the good news: X.38 defined the intergateway  interface  well 
      enough  that  the  only change needed to  make  two  independently 
      developed  gateways  interoperable  was a reversal  of  bit  order 
      within an octet.


2.3   FOIP - T.38 and CyberFax (1997+)

2.3.1 A 5-country, 1-channel switched network was built as a feasibility 
      demonstration:  Canada, Israel, Singapore, Sri Lanka, USA.  Either 
      TCP,  or UDP with a proprietary retransmission protocol  could  be 
      used. Frame size was large: 500 octets; call duration increase was 
      therefore  relatively  high, since retransmission  of  an  errored 
      frame  took  a  while. Performance and utility  were  adequate  to 
      proceed to a commercialisation phase.

2.3.2 Results  were tabled June 1997 as TD CM-008 in a Q4/8  meeting  in 
      Costa  Mesa, California, USA, and the T.ifax questions  to  become 
      T.37 and T.38 were created there.

2.3.3 May 1998, commercial FOIP service was launched out of Johannesburg 
      with  offramp  in  New York, followed in the  next  18  months  by 
      offramps  in Fort Lauderdale, Hong Kong, Montreal,  Guangzhou  and 
      Hong Kong, and onramps in Cape Town, Durban, Pretoria,  Guangzhou, 
      Beijing, Shanghai, Bangkok and Singapore. 
                                  - 4 -

3.    Conclusions, Lessons Learned:

      The  implementation  in 2.3.1 above was made  with  a  proprietary 
      superset  of Recommendation T.38. The extensions to T.38(98)  were 
      outlined  but  not explicitly defined in  SG8/D.223  (Geneva,  Feb 
      2000) and in GMD-20 (Gaithersburg, Maryland, June 2000), and are:

3.1   Minimize  spoofing;  therefore avoid use of  error  correction  by 
      retransmission (don't use TCP);

3.2   Selective redundancy; more error protection on FCFs than on  image 
      data.

***   and, to make T.38 truly useful:

3.3   Define  an  efficient forward error correction  algorithm  with  a 
      modest  increase in data rate yet capable of spanning at least  10 
      consecutive missing or errored IP frames;

3.4   Finally: make the intergateway protocol explicit and  unambiguous, 
      favouring solutions proven in service on the public Internet.



                               _________________

--=====================_973318408==_--



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Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:13:28 -0500
To: David Duehren <dduehren@brooktrout.com>,
        "'hsilbiger@ieee.org'" <hsilbiger@ieee.org>, James_Renkel@3com.com
From: Don Mactaggart <mactag@total.net>
Subject: RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
  SIP/SDP/RTP
Cc: James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>, mjh@aciri.org,
        Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, Schooler@cs.caltech.edu,
        frederick@parc.xerox.com, van@ee.lbl.gov, scott.petrack@metatel.com,
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Dave, where might I look for performance data  for SCTP ?													At
05:14 PM 00/11/03 -0500, David Duehren wrote:
>I won't be able to attend the SG16 meeting but I suggest discussing the use
>of
>SCTP as a compromise between UDP/RTP and TCP.
>
>- David Duehren
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Herman Silbiger [mailto:hsilbiger@home.com]
>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:17 PM
>> To: James_Renkel@3com.com
>> Cc: James Rafferty; mjh@aciri.org; Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu;
>> Schooler@cs.caltech.edu; frederick@parc.xerox.com; van@ee.lbl.gov;
>> scott.petrack@metatel.com; gk@acm.org; szilles@Adobe.COM;
>> Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com; venable@wrc.xerox.com;
>> Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca; Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net;
>> c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk; Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it;
>> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp; ned.freed@innosoft.com; paf@cisco.com;
>> ietf-fax@imc.org; Jean-Francois Mule; Don Mactaggart
>> Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
>> SIP/SDP/RTP
>> 
>> 
>> James_R,
>> 
>> If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP 
>> the that would have to
>> be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for 
>> facsimile.  The next
>> meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put 
>> a contribution in to
>> that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the 
>> successor group to TR29.
>> 
>> The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.
>> 
>> Herman Silbiger
>> 
>> James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:
>> 
>> > James,
>> >
>> > Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
>> >
>> > In my desire to keep my request for information short, I 
>> mis-used the terms
>> > simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not 
>> completely accurate
>> > context for my request. Let me clarify.
>> >
>> > As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted 
>> over the PSTN. By using
>> > that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for 
>> information had
>> > something to do with faxes.
>> >
>> > And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our 
>> store-and-forward fax
>> > and universal messaging systems can receive T.37 
>> attachments for faxes to be
>> > sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for 
>> faxes received from the
>> > PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had 
>> something to do with
>> > faxes.
>> >
>> > I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
>> >
>> > And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses 
>> TCP and UDPTL, not
>> > RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of 
>> such sessions is
>> > already standardized or is proposed.
>> >
>> > While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful 
>> transport protocols for
>> > T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a 
>> transport protocol for
>> > T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we 
>> would like to see
>> > standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would 
>> require two things:
>> > o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
>> > o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
>> > Here specifically is one place where I was looking for 
>> information on anyone
>> > that has already done work in this area or is interested in 
>> doing so. I think
>> > this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX 
>> working group, but I
>> > might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it 
>> should appropriately
>> > be done.
>> >
>> > The one other area that we are also looking for work 
>> already done or folk
>> > interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as 
>> defined, e.g., by
>> > EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative 
>> to T.38 over any
>> > transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already 
>> supported by many of our
>> > products and the products of other vendors, but the 
>> establishment of sessions
>> > between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax 
>> over TCP is handled by
>> > non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to 
>> standardize this so
>> > that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such 
>> sessions and multiple
>> > vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the 
>> protocols are all
>> > defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think 
>> this work also might
>> > appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group, 
>> but am open to other
>> > suggestions.
>> >
>> > I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already 
>> working in these areas
>> > or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If 
>> anyone is interested,
>> > perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a 
>> few weeks to discuss
>> > this further.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
>> >
>> > Jim Renkel
>> > Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
>> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>> >
>> > James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
>> >
>> > Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
>> >
>> > To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
>> > cc:
>> > Subject:  RE: Request for information on using 
>> T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP
>> >
>> > James,
>> >
>> > Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
>> > off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
>> > been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
>> >
>> > See my comments below:
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
>> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
>> > > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
>> > > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
>> > > SIP/SDP/RTP
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
>> > > is working on
>> > > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
>> > > greater functionality
>> > > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
>> > > real-time
>> > > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
>> > > facsimile applications
>> > > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
>> > > done or anyone that
>> > > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
>> > > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
>> > > and other transport
>> > > protocols;
>> > this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
>> >
>> > 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
>> > fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
>> > here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
>> >
>> > 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
>> > where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and 
>> the transport
>> > is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the 
>> technical details
>> > are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are 
>> referenced by T.37
>> > (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
>> > info on the About Internet fax link)
>> >
>> > 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time 
>> over packet
>> > networks.
>> > Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet 
>> methods which are
>> > specified
>> > in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes 
>> specifying operation
>> > with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe 
>> the annex for use
>> > with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T 
>> SG16 meeting in
>> > Geneva.
>> >
>> > At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and 
>> data over IP and
>> > PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the 
>> related standards
>> > developments.
>> >
>> > I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > James Rafferty
>> >
>> > * -----------------------------------
>> > James Rafferty
>> > Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
>> > jraff@brooktrout.com
>> >
>> > Brooktrout Technology
>> > 410 First Avenue
>> > Needham, MA 02494 USA
>> > Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
>> > Fax: 781-433-9268
>> > www.brooktrout.com
>> > Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
>> >
>> > > and
>> > > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
>> > >
>> > > Any information you have on this would be greatly
>> > > approciated. Thank you in
>> > > advance for your attention to this.
>> > >
>> > > Jim Renkel
>> > > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
>> > > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
>> > >
>> > >
>> 
>
>


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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sun Nov  5 22:45:40 2000
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Subject: San Diego meeting
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Folks,

It seems that our slot changes to Friday.
I know lots of people leave on Friday morning, including me.

I am now requesting to change to other days.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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David,

I agree that SCTP should also be looked at. But given the prevalence of RTP use
in, e.g., internet / PSTN gateways, I don't think we should skip looking at RTP.
IMHO, it's rather easy to add support for T.38 over RTP to an internet / PSTN
gateway, and that would provide more interworking opportunities, at least as
compared to adding support for SCTP. Some vendors, like us, already have
proprietary implementations of this, and wish to get it standardized. I think
SCTP will be extensively used eventually, but RTP is being extensively used now.

I look forward to discussing this with you in San Diego, assuming you'll be
there.

Jim





David Duehren <dduehren@brooktrout.com> on 11/03/2000 04:14:36 PM

Sent by:  David Duehren <dduehren@brooktrout.com>


To:   "'hsilbiger @ieee.org'" <hsilbiger@ieee.org>, James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
cc:   See Below
Subject:  RE: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP



I won't be able to attend the SG16 meeting but I suggest discussing the use
of
SCTP as a compromise between UDP/RTP and TCP.

- David Duehren

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herman Silbiger [mailto:hsilbiger@home.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:17 PM
> To: James_Renkel@3com.com
> Cc: James Rafferty; mjh@aciri.org; Schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu;
> Schooler@cs.caltech.edu; frederick@parc.xerox.com; van@ee.lbl.gov;
> scott.petrack@metatel.com; gk@acm.org; szilles@Adobe.COM;
> Rob_Buckley@wb.xerox.com; venable@wrc.xerox.com;
> Glenn.Parsons@nortel.ca; Jrafferty@worldnet.att.net;
> c.perkins@cs.ucl.ac.uk; Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it;
> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp; ned.freed@innosoft.com; paf@cisco.com;
> ietf-fax@imc.org; Jean-Francois Mule; Don Mactaggart
> Subject: Re: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> SIP/SDP/RTP
>
>
> James_R,
>
> If you are interested in gettin T.38 amended to support RTP
> the that would have to
> be done in ITU Study Group 16, which now is responsible for
> facsimile.  The next
> meeting of SG16 is 13-17 November in Geneva so ypu can't put
> a contribution in to
> that.  The best thing will be to take it to TR30.5, the
> successor group to TR29.
>
> The new chair of TR29 is Jim Dahmen, jdahmen@atl.mediaone.net.
>
> Herman Silbiger
>
> James_Renkel@3com.com wrote:
>
> > James,
> >
> > Your comments below are absolutely correct and are appreciated.
> >
> > In my desire to keep my request for information short, I
> mis-used the terms
> > simply to give what I hoped was a short but perhaps not
> completely accurate
> > context for my request. Let me clarify.
> >
> > As you state, T.30 is relevant only to faxes transmitted
> over the PSTN. By using
> > that term, I just wanted to indicate that my request for
> information had
> > something to do with faxes.
> >
> > And as you state, T.37 is for fax MIME attachments. Our
> store-and-forward fax
> > and universal messaging systems can receive T.37
> attachments for faxes to be
> > sent over the PSTN and can generate T.37 attachments for
> faxes received from the
> > PSTN. Again, I just wanted to indicate that my request had
> something to do with
> > faxes.
> >
> > I apologize if my mis-use of these terms misled anyone.
> >
> > And again as you state, T.38 as currently defined only uses
> TCP and UDPTL, not
> > RTP, as transport protocols, and SIP/SDP establishment of
> such sessions is
> > already standardized or is proposed.
> >
> > While we certainly believe that TCP and UDPTL are useful
> transport protocols for
> > T.38, and we support them, we also see use for RTP as a
> transport protocol for
> > T.38. We have a proprietary implementation of that which we
> would like to see
> > standardized if others also find it useful. Doing so would
> require two things:
> > o    defining a T.38 payload type for RTP: and
> > o    defining SDP tokens to describe that.
> > Here specifically is one place where I was looking for
> information on anyone
> > that has already done work in this area or is interested in
> doing so. I think
> > this work might appropriately be done within the IETF FAX
> working group, but I
> > might be wrong. If so, I'm open to suggestions for where it
> should appropriately
> > be done.
> >
> > The one other area that we are also looking for work
> already done or folk
> > interested in doing work is the use of Class 2.0 fax, as
> defined, e.g., by
> > EIA/TIA-578, -592, -602, etc., over TCP as an alternative
> to T.38 over any
> > transport protocol. Class 2.0 fax over TCP is already
> supported by many of our
> > products and the products of other vendors, but the
> establishment of sessions
> > between fax servers and PSTN gateways using Class 2.0 fax
> over TCP is handled by
> > non-standard, proprietary schemes. Again, we would like to
> standardize this so
> > that, in particular, SIP can be used to establish such
> sessions and multiple
> > vendors products can better interwork. In this case, the
> protocols are all
> > defined, all that is needed is a few SDP tokens. I think
> this work also might
> > appropriately be done within the IETF FAX working group,
> but am open to other
> > suggestions.
> >
> > I hope this clarifies my original request. Anyone already
> working in these areas
> > or interested in doing so please contact me by e-mail. If
> anyone is interested,
> > perhaps we can get together informally in San Diego in a
> few weeks to discuss
> > this further.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
> >
> > Jim Renkel
> > Director, Advanced Technology and System Engineering
> > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> >
> > James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com> on 10/27/2000 12:58:41 PM
> >
> > Sent by:  James Rafferty <jraff@brooktrout.com>
> >
> > To:   James Renkel/MW/US/3Com
> > cc:
> > Subject:  RE: Request for information on using
> T.30/T.37/T.38 with SIP/SDP/ RTP
> >
> > James,
> >
> > Hi.   I'm the former chair for the WG.    This request is somewhat
> > off topic for this list, but I'll give you a brief answer.  I've
> > been involved in all of the work referenced in the ITU and IETF.
> >
> > See my comments below:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: James_Renkel@3com.com [mailto:James_Renkel@3com.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:33 PM
> > > To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > > Subject: Request for information on using T.30/T.37/T.38 with
> > > SIP/SDP/RTP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The 3Com Carrier Networks Business System Engineering group
> > > is working on
> > > extending and integrating some of our products to achieve
> > > greater functionality
> > > and better interworking in the areas of store-and-forward and
> > > real-time
> > > facsimile transmission. Products in this area include
> > > facsimile applications
> > > systems and PSTN-Internet interworking gateways.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of any work that has been done or is being
> > > done or anyone that
> > > has done or is doing work in the areas of:
> > > o    specification of T.30/T.37/T.38 payload formats for RTP
> > > and other transport
> > > protocols;
> > this is mixing apples and oranges. Briefly,
> >
> > 1.  T.30 is the PSTN protocol and needs to be supported for PSTN
> > fax support in products like gateways to IP; no direct connection
> > here to RTP, which is on the packet side.
> >
> > 2.   T.37 is an umbrella standard for store and forward Internet fax
> > where images are sent as MIME attachments (image/tiff) and
> the transport
> > is SMTP/ESMTP ; again, no connection to RTP; all of the
> technical details
> > are included in RFC 2301-2306; RFC 2530-2532, which are
> referenced by T.37
> > (my personal web site , www.humancomm.com, has some of this kind of
> > info on the About Internet fax link)
> >
> > 3.   T.38 is the standard for sending fax data in real time
> over packet
> > networks.
> > Instead of using RTP, the fax data and signals use packet
> methods which are
> > specified
> > in the ITU-T T.38 recommendation.   T.38 has annexes
> specifying operation
> > with H.323 and (recently approved) with SIP.   I believe
> the annex for use
> > with Megaco/H.248 is up for approval at next month's ITU-T
> SG16 meeting in
> > Geneva.
> >
> > At Brooktrout, we do enabling technology for voice, fax and
> data over IP and
> > PSTN networks, so we are staying plugged in to all of the
> related standards
> > developments.
> >
> > I hope this helps.   Please feel free to follow up if needed.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > James Rafferty
> >
> > * -----------------------------------
> > James Rafferty
> > Senior Product Manager, IP Telephony
> > jraff@brooktrout.com
> >
> > Brooktrout Technology
> > 410 First Avenue
> > Needham, MA 02494 USA
> > Phone:  +1-781-433-9462
> > Fax: 781-433-9268
> > www.brooktrout.com
> > Your Hook into the New Network(SM)
> >
> > > and
> > > o    specification of the above media stream types in SDP/SIP.
> > >
> > > Any information you have on this would be greatly
> > > approciated. Thank you in
> > > advance for your attention to this.
> > >
> > > Jim Renkel
> > > Director, Advanced Technology & System Engineering
> > > 3Com Carrier Networks Business
> > >
> > >
>

cc: James Rafferty <Jraff @Brooktrout.Com>    Glenn.Parsons @Nortel.Ca
    Mjh @Aciri.Org                 Jrafferty @Worldnet.Att.Net
    Schulzrinne @Cs.Columbia.Edu   C.Perkins @Cs.Ucl.Ac.Uk
    Schooler @Cs.Caltech.Edu       Claudio.Allocchio @Garr.It
    Frederick @Parc.Xerox.Com      Tamura @Toda.Ricoh.Co.Jp
    Van @Ee.Lbl.Gov                Ned.Freed @Innosoft.Com
    Scott.Petrack @Metatel.Com     Paf @Cisco.Com
    Gk @Acm.Org                    Ietf-Fax @Imc.Org
    Szilles @Adobe.Com             Jean-Francois Mule <Jfmule @Clarent.Com>
    Rob_Buckley @Wb.Xerox.Com      Don Mactaggart <Mactag @Total.Net>
    Venable @Wrc.Xerox.Com





From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov  6 18:52:26 2000
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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: [Important] Re: San Diego meeting
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From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

If you attend San Diego meeting, please read this mail *NOW*.
If necessary, please reply SOON.

> It seems that our slot changes to Friday.
> I know lots of people leave on Friday morning, including me.
> 
> I am now requesting to change to other days.

I am told it may be difficult to re-change.

If our slot is in Friday, is there anyone who can not attend?
If Monday-Thursday is OK and Friday is not convenient,
please reply ASAP.

I would like to know how many presentors and attendees
cannot be there on Friday morning.

There is a priority for presentors.

Thank you for your help.
 
Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov  6 19:06:36 2000
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From: "McIntyre, Lloyd" <Lloyd.McIntyre@pahv.xerox.com>
To: "'Hiroshi Tamura'" <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>, ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: RE: [Important] Re: San Diego meeting
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:36:49 -0800 
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Friday would be more difficult for me to attend.

Lloyd (editor RFC3201)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hiroshi Tamura [mailto:tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp]
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:20 PM
> To: ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: [Important] Re: San Diego meeting
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> If you attend San Diego meeting, please read this mail *NOW*.
> If necessary, please reply SOON.
> 
> > It seems that our slot changes to Friday.
> > I know lots of people leave on Friday morning, including me.
> > 
> > I am now requesting to change to other days.
> 
> I am told it may be difficult to re-change.
> 
> If our slot is in Friday, is there anyone who can not attend?
> If Monday-Thursday is OK and Friday is not convenient,
> please reply ASAP.
> 
> I would like to know how many presentors and attendees
> cannot be there on Friday morning.
> 
> There is a priority for presentors.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
>  
> Regards,
> --
> Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
> E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp
> 


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov  6 21:13:16 2000
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"McIntyre, Lloyd" wrote:
> 
> Friday would be more difficult for me to attend.
> 
> Lloyd (editor RFC3201)

We also, Friday would be more difficult to attend.
 
Mimura (editor draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02 & 
               draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00 )
-----------------------------------------------
Ktasuhiko Mimura   E-mail mimu@toyocom.co.jp
TOYOCOM(TOYO COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT CO., LTD)
Multimedia Engineering Department
Communication Systems Division
Tel +81-467-74-3584 Fax +81-467-74-3934


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov  7 02:54:14 2000
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From: mohammad salehizadeh <salehizadeh2000@yahoo.com>
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Hi,sir
I am Mohammad reza Salehizadeh from Iran.
I have a project about " The new methods of circuit
analysis".Would you mind heling me and send me more
information about it?My email is
salehizadeh2000@yahoo.com
Thank you for helping me.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:58:17 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

> > It seems that our slot changes to Friday.
> > I know lots of people leave on Friday morning, including me.
> > 
> > I am now requesting to change to other days.
> 
> I am told it may be difficult to re-change.

It seems that most presenters cannot attend Friday.
Therefore, Claudio and I requested again to change.

They suggests Monday evening session. But *NOT* decided.

We are told the preliminary agenda is *preliminary*.
It can be changed. You may miss some seesions
unless you are there on whole IETF days.

If you do not fix your schedule like air flight,
please remember the agenda can be changed by the cutoff date.

Please wait for the fixed schedule.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov 13 16:03:25 2000
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From: "Glenn Parsons" <gparsons@nortelnetworks.com>
To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Cc: ned.freed@innosoft.com, paf@cisco.com
Subject: RE: IETF-FAX WG Last Call on Addressing I-Ds
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Was this sent on an IETF last call yet?

I have not seen the announcement or see it on the IESG queue...

Cheers,
Glenn.

> ----------
> From: 	Hiroshi Tamura
> Sent: 	Tuesday, October 3, 2000 4:23 am
> To: 	ietf-fax@imc.org
> Cc: 	ned.freed@innosoft.com; paf@cisco.com
> Subject: 	Re: IETF-FAX WG Last Call on Addressing I-Ds
> 
> Folks, 
> 
> This is the result of IETF-FAX WG Last Call of the following I-Ds.
>  
> 1 draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt (update of RFC 2303)
> - Minimal GSTN address format in Internet Mail -
> 
> 2 draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt (update of RFC 2304)
> - Minimal FAX address format in Internet Mail -
> 
> These were submitted for IETF FAX WG Last CALL on September 18, 2000.
> During the two-weeks Last Call period, there were no comments.
> They were already modified for clarification by Pittsburgh meeting and 
> editorially corrected by the Last Call.
> 
> Therefore, I will submit both documents to the IESG with the interworking
> report for Draft Standard consideration, within a few days.
> 
> Thanks to the editor, Claudio and all people who commented them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Hiroshi Tamura
> IETF FAX WG co-chair
> 
> 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C04DAA.005BD010
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: IETF-FAX WG Last Call on Addressing I-Ds</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" FACE=3D"Arial">Was this sent on an IETF last =
call yet?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" FACE=3D"Arial">I have not seen the =
announcement or see it on the IESG queue...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" FACE=3D"Arial">Cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" FACE=3D"Arial">Glenn.</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">----------</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">From:</FONT></B> &nbsp; <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Hiroshi Tamura</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Sent:</FONT></B> &nbsp; <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Tuesday, October 3, 2000 4:23 am</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">To:</FONT></B> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">ietf-fax@imc.org</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Cc:</FONT></B> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">ned.freed@innosoft.com; =
paf@cisco.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Subject:</FONT></B> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Geneva">Re: =
IETF-FAX WG Last Call on Addressing I-Ds</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Folks, </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">This is the result of IETF-FAX WG =
Last Call of the following I-Ds.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">1 draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt =
(update of RFC 2303)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">- Minimal GSTN address format in =
Internet Mail -</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">2 draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt =
(update of RFC 2304)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">- Minimal FAX address format in =
Internet Mail -</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">These were submitted for IETF FAX WG =
Last CALL on September 18, 2000.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">During the two-weeks Last Call =
period, there were no comments.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">They were already modified for =
clarification by Pittsburgh meeting and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">editorially corrected by the Last =
Call.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Therefore, I will submit both =
documents to the IESG with the interworking</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">report for Draft Standard =
consideration, within a few days.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Thanks to the editor, Claudio and all =
people who commented them.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Regards,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Hiroshi Tamura</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">IETF FAX WG co-chair</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C04DAA.005BD010--


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov 13 17:52:32 2000
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Subject: RE: IETF-FAX WG Last Call on Addressing I-Ds
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:43:31 -0500"
 <488891341182D4118A870000F80822E782B6D7@zcard00p.ca.nortel.com>
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> Was this sent on an IETF last call yet?

No. These have not passed AD review yet.

> I have not seen the announcement or see it on the IESG queue...

I'll make sure they are on the IESG queue.

				Ned


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 14 11:45:51 2000
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Subject: Very draft Agenda at San Diego
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

Draft agenda is below. "[[[]]]"s are my comments
only for this mail.

If there are anything else you would like to take,
please let me know. Also, if anyone has suggestions,
comments or anything, please say!.

If possbile, I would like to have your comments by 21th.

--------------------------------------------------------------

1 Opening and Agenda bashing                 5 min

2 Status of pending Draft Standard           5-15 min
2.1 TIFF-FX
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-08.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-regbis-01.txt

[[[Ned asked us some actions for regbis. Editors do something
before San Diego, I hope. They might submit the new version.]]]

2.2 Addressing
- draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt

3 Targeted for Draft Standard                5 min
3.1 Service
- draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-02.txt         

[[[It is better to confirm the status.]]]

4 On-going Internet-Drafts
4.1 Gateway issue                            30-40 min
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00.txt

4.2 Imlementers Guide                        10 min
- draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt  

4.3 FFPIM                                    20-30 min
- draft-ietf-fax-ffpim-00.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-01.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-03.txt

4.4 TIFF-FX extension issue                  15-20 min
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-Extension-xx.txt

4.5 PNDN                                     5-10 min

[[[Decision if we continue or we drop the I-D.]]]

[[[Eric,
is it acceptable to you?]]]

5 Issue from VPIM WG                         10 min

[[[Glenn,
if there are anything that your group would like to introduce,
please let us know.

6 ITU issue                                  5-10 min
- Status

[[[I am now in Geneva for ITU-T SG16 meeting. According to the results,
I will introduce briefly.]]]

7 Confirmation of Milestone and charter      10 min

------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Nov 16 12:48:19 2000
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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: San Diego schedule
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

THere is a change, again.
Now, our slot is temporary allocated to Monday afternoon,,,

----------------------------------
MONDAY, December 11, 2000
1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II
APP fax Internet Fax WG
 
----------------------------------

It is still preliminary. At the end of this week, it is fixed.
After that, I will let you know again.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

 


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To: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>, ietf-fax@imc.org
From: MAEDA toru <maeda.toru@canon.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Very draft Agenda at San Diego
Cc: eburger@snowshore.com, gparsons@nortelnetworks.com
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Tamura-san

Please add Terminal Mode 10 min in ITU issue.


Toru Maeda


At 01:11 00/11/15 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Draft agenda is below. "[[[]]]"s are my comments
>only for this mail.
>
>If there are anything else you would like to take,
>please let me know. Also, if anyone has suggestions,
>comments or anything, please say!.
>
>If possbile, I would like to have your comments by 21th.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>1 Opening and Agenda bashing                 5 min
>
>2 Status of pending Draft Standard           5-15 min
>2.1 TIFF-FX
>- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-08.txt
>- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-regbis-01.txt
>
>[[[Ned asked us some actions for regbis. Editors do something
>before San Diego, I hope. They might submit the new version.]]]
>
>2.2 Addressing
>- draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt
>- draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt
>
>3 Targeted for Draft Standard                5 min
>3.1 Service
>- draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-02.txt
>
>[[[It is better to confirm the status.]]]
>
>4 On-going Internet-Drafts
>4.1 Gateway issue                            30-40 min
>- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02.txt
>- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00.txt
>
>4.2 Imlementers Guide                        10 min
>- draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt
>
>4.3 FFPIM                                    20-30 min
>- draft-ietf-fax-ffpim-00.txt
>- draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-01.txt
>- draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-03.txt
>
>4.4 TIFF-FX extension issue                  15-20 min
>- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-Extension-xx.txt
>
>4.5 PNDN                                     5-10 min
>
>[[[Decision if we continue or we drop the I-D.]]]
>
>[[[Eric,
>is it acceptable to you?]]]
>
>5 Issue from VPIM WG                         10 min
>
>[[[Glenn,
>if there are anything that your group would like to introduce,
>please let us know.
>
>6 ITU issue                                  5-10 min
>- Status
>
>[[[I am now in Geneva for ITU-T SG16 meeting. According to the results,
>I will introduce briefly.]]]
>
>7 Confirmation of Milestone and charter      10 min
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Regards,
>--
>Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
>tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

************************
$BA0ED!!E0(B
$B%-%d%N%s(B($B3t(B)$B!!1G;vBh(B3$B5;?dIt(B
************************


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Subject: Re: Very draft Agenda at San Diego
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MAEDA-san,

> Please add Terminal Mode 10 min in ITU issue.

Adding is OK.
But we need to talk about how the issue is introduced,
according to the results of SG16 meeting.

Sooner or later, I can contact you locally.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: File Format for Internet Fax
	Author(s)	: R. Buckley, D. Venable, S. Zilles,
                          L. McIntyre, G. Parsons, J. Rafferty
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-09.txt
	Pages		: 86
	Date		: 17-Nov-00
	
This document is a revised version of RFC 2301.
The revisions, summarized in the list attached as Annex C to this 
document, are based on the discussions and suggestions for improvements 
that have been made since RFC 2301 was issued in March 1998, and on the
results of independent implementations and interoperability testing.
This RFC 2301 revision describes the TIFF (Tag Image File Format)
representation of image data specified by the ITU-T Recommendations
for black-and-white and color facsimile. This file format
specification is commonly known as TIFF-FX. It formally defines
minimal, extended and lossless JBIG profiles (Profiles S, F, J) for
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Content profiles (Profiles C, L, M) for color and grayscale fax. These
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Recommendations. Files formatted according to this specification use
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: TIFF-FX Extensions 1
	Author(s)	: L. McIntyre, D. Abercrombie, W. Rucklidge, R. Buckley
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-extension1-00.txt
	Pages		: 58
	Date		: 17-Nov-00
	
This document is an Internet draft for extensions to TIFF-FX
[RFC XXXX], extension set 1.
This draft describes extensions to RFC XXXX to enable new features or
conditions to TIFF-FX. The features are described by a set of 
guidelines for all TIFF-FX extensions, and a set of 5 extension types
which enable: increased resolutions and image widths, expanding 
Profile M from 3 layers to N layers, the use of shared data as a 
general mechanism for sharing data across images and pages, a binary 
profile for JBIG2 coding, and an extension to Profile M for JBIG2 and
'colour tag' coding. These extensions do not required modification of
existing TIFF-FX implementations.
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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Nov 20 23:27:17 2000
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To: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
From: MAEDA toru <maeda.toru@canon.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Very draft Agenda at San Diego
Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
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 <20001115011143X.tamurah@ties.itu.int>
 <4.2.0.58.J.20001120141047.00a5e740@ffmmail.ffm.canon.co.jp>
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Tamura-san

Thank you for adding the item in the agenda.
Terminal Mode will be introduced following to its communication from ITU-T.
I hope the communication will be released to IETF before the meeting.

Regards,


At 16:05 00/11/20 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:
>MAEDA-san,
>
> > Please add Terminal Mode 10 min in ITU issue.
>
>Adding is OK.
>But we need to talk about how the issue is introduced,
>according to the results of SG16 meeting.
>
>Sooner or later, I can contact you locally.
>
>Regards,
>--
>Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
>E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

*****************************
Toru MAEDA
CANON Inc. OIP Technology Adv. 3
*****************************


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 21 00:27:33 2000
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	<20001120160516A.tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
	<4.2.0.58.J.20001121125822.00a19530@ffmmail.ffm.canon.co.jp>
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MAEDA-san,

> Terminal Mode will be introduced following to its communication from ITU-T.
> I hope the communication will be released to IETF before the meeting.

If you need it urgently, could you ask Mr. Bigi and/or Mr. Probst
(contact people to IETF in ITU-T SG16) to do it on behalf of
Q.FAX rapporteur and/or WP1 chairman?

For us, it is better to circulate *formally*.
It is not good for me to do it.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-Chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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FYI,

Will this draft be discussed in the FAX WG?

We are discussing a VPIM use of ENUM draft in the VPIM WG
<draft-ietf-vpim-routing-01.txt>.

Glenn.

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: ENUM, E.164, and Internet Fax
	Author(s)	: A. Gallant
	Filename	: draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt
	Pages		: 6
	Date		: 20-Nov-00
	
E.164 numbers are often used for fax addresses. Internet fax 
provides store-and-forward (T.37) and real-time (T.38) modes. 
Subscribers could use ENUM to store Internet fax preferences in DNS 
under their fax numbers. Network devices could then query DNS to 
retrieve that information. An example is subscriber preferences for 
receiving faxes via Internet mail or SIP delivery. Further work on 
ENUM for Internet Fax is indicated, one example being H.323 
delivery. Policy aspects are out of scope of this draft. This 
document is not associated with any working group. Comments may be 
sent to the author.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<20001120150907.I-D@ietf.org>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	name="draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<20001120150907.I-D@ietf.org>

--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--




--------------F25F287967265B986EE9BCA5--



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 21 18:21:17 2000
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To: gparsons@nortelnetworks.com
Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org, vpim@lists.neystadt.org, andrew.gallant@neustar.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt]
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References: <3A1AC852.17B4CF4B@americasm01.nt.com>
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:56:16 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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> We are discussing a VPIM use of ENUM draft in the VPIM WG
> <draft-ietf-vpim-routing-01.txt>.

OK.

The editor of draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt(andrew.gallant@neustar.com)
requests us for the introduction on FAX-WG.

I agree to it.

I think they are similar I-Ds. It is better to take them
at the same time. Claudio and I also include them in FAX WG agenda.

Some people of FAX WG do not know ENUM itself well.
Personally I think the brief introduction of ENUM itself is preferrable.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 21 18:25:25 2000
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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Cc: dinaras@ietf.org, paf@cisco.com, ned.freed@innosoft.com
Subject: FAX-WG on Monday Afternoon
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:05:00 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

Our slot is fixed.

Thanks to efforts by lots of people who adjust IETF schedule.
We can meet at 15:30-17:30 on Monday, Dec 11.

Again, thank you.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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From: "Glenn Parsons" <gparsons@nortelnetworks.com>
To: "'IETF VPIM List'" <vpim@lists.neystadt.org>
Cc: "'ned.freed@innosoft.com'" <ned.freed@innosoft.com>,
        "'ietf-fax@imc.org'" <ietf-fax@imc.org>,
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Subject: WG Last Call on VPIM Addressing
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C053ED.039CDBE0
Content-Type: text/plain

This is the Working Group last call notice for the following draft:       

	A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
	This draft is a work item of the Voice Profile for Internet Mail
Working Group of the IETF.

		Title		: VPIM Addressing
		Author(s)	: G. Parsons
		Filename	: draft-ietf-vpim-address-00.txt
		Pages		: 14
		Date		: 17-Nov-00
		
	This document lists the various VPIM email addresses that are 
	currently in common use and defines several new address formats for 
	special case usage.  
	Note:  Though this draft is '00', it is a revision of the Internet 
	Draft issued as draft-ema-vpim-address-01.txt

	A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
	http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-vpim-address-00.txt


This document has been under review in the WG and in other communities
interested in VPIM address elements during the past year (it was 
draft-ema-vpim-addres-xx).    At our last IETF meeting, it was felt that 
the document was sufficiently stable, excepting the need to sync with the
final GSTN Draft Standards.

The main revision since the last IETF meeting has been to align with the 
new GSTN address documents,  as well as adding details for /EXT and /DL.

I am also ccing the FAX list, since their documents are referenced by this 
this draft.   

The comment period will be two weeks and is targeted to expire on 
December 6th.   Please direct comments to this list.   

Per the WG charter, this document is targeted for submission to the IESG 
as a proposed standard upon completion of the Last Call comment period.    

Glenn Parsons
Co-Chair, IETF VPIM WG


------_=_NextPart_001_01C053ED.039CDBE0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>WG Last Call on VPIM Addressing</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">This is the Working Group last call =
notice for the following draft:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">A New Internet-Draft is available =
from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">This draft is a work item of the =
Voice Profile for Internet Mail Working Group of the IETF.</FONT>
</P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">Title&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : VPIM Addressing</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">Author(s)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : G. =
Parsons</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">Filename&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : =
draft-ietf-vpim-address-00.txt</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">Pages&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : 14</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">Date&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : 17-Nov-00</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">This document lists the various VPIM =
email addresses that are </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">currently in common use and defines =
several new address formats for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">special case usage.&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Note:&nbsp; Though this draft is =
'00', it is a revision of the Internet </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Draft issued as =
draft-ema-vpim-address-01.txt</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">A URL for this Internet-Draft =
is:</FONT>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-vpim-address-00.t=
xt" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-vpim-ad=
dress-00.txt</A></FONT></U>
</P>
<BR>
</UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">This document has been under review =
in the WG and in other communities</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">interested in VPIM address elements =
during the past year (it was </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Monaco">draft-ema-vpim-addres-xx).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; At our =
last IETF meeting, it was felt that </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">the document was sufficiently =
stable, excepting the need to sync with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">final GSTN Draft Standards.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">The main revision since the last IETF =
meeting has been to align with the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">new GSTN address documents,&nbsp; as =
well as adding details for /EXT and /DL.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">I am also ccing the FAX list, since =
their documents are referenced by this </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">this draft.&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">The comment period will be two weeks =
and is targeted to expire on </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">December 6th.&nbsp;&nbsp; Please =
direct comments to this list.&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Per the WG charter, this document is =
targeted for submission to the IESG </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">as a proposed standard upon =
completion of the Last Call comment period.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Glenn Parsons</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Monaco">Co-Chair, IETF VPIM WG</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C053ED.039CDBE0--


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Nov 22 12:47:58 2000
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:03:39 -0500
To: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp, ietf-fax@imc.org
From: Richard Shockey <rshockey@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: ENUM as in Fax 
Cc: gparsons@nortelnetworks.com
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Tamura-san  as you know I'm the ENUM WG Chair .. If I can help here I 
certainly will ..and you well know I've had considerable experience in the 
FAX WG in the past.

If you think just a pure ENUM brief is in order I'm more that happy to assist.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hiroshi Tamura [mailto:tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:56 PM
To: gparsons@nortelnetworks.com
Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org; vpim@lists.neystadt.org;
andrew.gallant@neustar.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt]


 > We are discussing a VPIM use of ENUM draft in the VPIM WG
 > <draft-ietf-vpim-routing-01.txt>.

OK.

The editor of draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt(andrew.gallant@neustar.com)
requests us for the introduction on FAX-WG.

I agree to it.

I think they are similar I-Ds. It is better to take them
at the same time. Claudio and I also include them in FAX WG agenda.

Some people of FAX WG do not know ENUM itself well.
Personally I think the brief introduction of ENUM itself is preferrable.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp




 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Richard Shockey
Senior Technical Industry Liaison
NeuStar Inc.
1120 Vermont Avenue N.W.
Suite 550
Washington DC. 20005
Voice 202.533.2811
Fax to EMail 815.333.1237 (Preferred for Fax)
Cell : 314.503.0640
INTERNET Mail & IFAX : rich.shockey@neustar.com
or   rshockey@ix.netcom.com
http://www.neustar.com

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Nov 23 18:27:26 2000
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Subject: Re: ENUM as in Fax 
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Shockey-san,

> Tamura-san  as you know I'm the ENUM WG Chair .. If I can help here I 
> certainly will ..and you well know I've had considerable experience in the 
> FAX WG in the past.

Yes, I know both well.

> If you think just a pure ENUM brief is in order I'm more that happy to assist.

Please do it in a few minutes. Claudio and I include it in our agenda.

Thank you for your support.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-Chair of IETF-FAX WG.
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Nov 23 18:40:38 2000
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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: new IFD and new compression values for TIFF-FX Extension
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:09:09 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

I requested the registration of new TIFF IFDs and new compression values
to Adobe for TIFF-FX extension, last month.

Thanks to Adobe's support, we got it.

---------------------------------------------------------------
New IFD Fields:
406 - MultiProfiles
407 - TIFF-FXExtensions
436 - T88Options
437 - SharedResources
 
New Compression type: 
12 - JBIG2: Binary JBIG2, based on ISO 14492/ITU-T Rec. T.88. 
---------------------------------------------------------------

The Editors will modify the I-Ds, according to the results,
after San Diego meeting.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp




From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Nov 24 02:06:08 2000
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To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Cc: claudio.allocchio@garr.it
Subject: IETF-FAX WG Draft Agenda at San Diego
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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:34:26 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Folks,

Draft agenda is below. Some are added. Otheres are modified.
So, I would like to confirm, again.

If there are something you would like to comment,
please let me know by Nov 27. I will submit it on Nov 28.

Claudio,
W.R.T. "chair splitting", after it is fixed, let's decide!

--------------------------------------------------------------

1 Opening and Agenda bashing                 3 min

2 Status of pending Draft Standard           10 min
2.1 TIFF-FX
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-09.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-regbis-02.txt
(Explanation of difference between regbis-02 and regbis-01)

2.2 Addressing
- draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt

3 Targeted for Draft Standard                2 min
3.1 Service
- draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-02.txt         
(Confirmation of DSN status)

4 On-going Internet-Drafts
4.1 Gateway issue                            20 min
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00.txt

4.2 Imlementers Guide                        10 min
- draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt  

4.3 FFPIM                                    20 min
- draft-ietf-fax-ffpim-00.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-01.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-03.txt

4.4 TIFF-FX extension issue                  15 min
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-extension1-00.txt

5 PNDN                                       5 min
(Brief introduction and decision if we continue or we drop the I-D)

6 Issues from Other WGs                      15 min
- ENUM itself
- draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt
- draft-ietf-vpim-routing-01.txt

7 ITU issue                                  15 min
- Letters from ITU-T
- Terminal mode

8 Confirmation of Milestone and charter      5 min

--------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 28 03:50:05 2000
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Deary Dinara,

Thank you for your usual support.

IETF-FAX WG agenda is below.
Please accept it.

--------------------------------------------------------------

1 Opening and Agenda bashing                 3 min

2 Status of pending Draft Standard           10 min
2.1 TIFF-FX
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-09.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-regbis-02.txt
(Explanation of difference between regbis-02 and regbis-01)

2.2 Addressing
- draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-02.txt

3 Targeted for Draft Standard                2 min
3.1 Service
- draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-02.txt         
(Confirmation of DSN status)

4 On-going Internet-Drafts
4.1 Gateway issue                            20 min
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-02.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-00.txt

4.2 Imlementers Guide                        10 min
- draft-ietf-fax-implementers-guide-04.txt  

4.3 FFPIM                                    20 min
- draft-ietf-fax-ffpim-00.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-01.txt
- draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-03.txt

4.4 TIFF-FX extension issue                  15 min
- draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-extension1-00.txt

5 PNDN                                       5 min
- draft-ema-vpim-pndn-02.txt
(Brief introduction and decision if we continue or we drop the I-D)

6 Issues from Other WGs                      15 min
- ENUM itself
- draft-gallant-enum-ifax-00.txt
- draft-ietf-vpim-routing-01.txt

7 ITU issue                                  15 min
- Letters from ITU-T
- Terminal mode

8 Confirmation of Milestone and charter      5 min

--------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Nov 28 10:34:58 2000
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From: "Bigi, Fabio" <Fabio.Bigi@itu.int>
To: "'ietf-fax@imc.org'" <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: Communication from ITU-T Study Group 16 to IETF Fax Working Group
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:35:07 +0100
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Attached please find a communication prepared during ITU-T SG16 last meeting
(Geneva, 13-17 November 2000).

Best regards

Fabio Bigi
TSB, Senior Counsellor

 <<LS7-16.ww9>> 

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------_=_NextPart_000_01C0593F.559B17B0--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Tag Image File Format (TIFF) - image/tiff MIME 
                          Sub-type Registration
	Author(s)	: G. Parsons, J. Rafferty, S. Zilles
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-tiff-regbis-02.txt
	Pages		: 7
	Date		: 28-Nov-00
	
This document describes the registration of the MIME sub-type 
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--OtherAccess
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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Nov 29 17:41:10 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:53:12 +0100 (MET)
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Subject: Lady V:  The Pleasure Pill for Women!
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LADY V: The Pleasure Pill for Women!

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Researchers are calling Lady V the greatest breakthrough
for women since the Birth Control Pill. And you don't even need
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               Welcome to the New Sexual Revolution!

It's no secret that men have been having the time of their
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designed for women. Lady V is an all-natural proprietary 
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synergistically blended to naturally stimulate neurotransmitter
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• 100% Natural
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• Guaranteed Potency
• Certified Purity

                     Lady V is Sweeping the Nation!

Women are going crazy over Lady V. Suddenly couples are falling
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less than $1 a pill! It's not just a man's world anymore!

Just look at what a few women have to say:

"I thought my love life was good before, but now it is out of
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feel like a couple of 19 year olds again!" — Debra T, Assistant Buyer

"Imagine what it would feel like to have incredible passion
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"Suddenly my husband and I are spending more time in the bedroom
instead of the TV room." — Angie R., Realtor

Ingredients: Vitamin D, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid,
Vitamin B12, Avena Sativa, Kava Kava, Guarana, White Willow Extract,
Mura Puama, St. John's Wort, Siberian Ginseng, Cordyceps, Damiana,
and L-Taurine.

Each bottle of Lady V contains 30 tablets.
Take three capsules one hour before romantic activity
as a dietary supplement. 

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Payment Methods

You may FAX or Postal Mail Checks, MasterCard, Visa,
& American Express.payments. Money Orders
are accepted only by Postal Mail. 


Each bottle of Lady V contains 30 tablets.


Step 1: Place a check by your desired quanity.


______ 1 Bottle of Lady V  $24


______ 2 Bottles of Lady V $44


______ 3 Bottles of Lady V $59


Please add $6 shipping and handling for any size order. 
[ Total cost including shipping & handling, 
1 bottle=$30, 2 bottles=$50, 3 bottles=$65 ]

International Orders
Please add $18 shipping and handling for any size order.
[ Total cost including shipping & handling,
1 bottle=$42, 2 bottles=$62, 3 bottles=$77 ]
We cannot accept foreign checks.
International money orders or credit cards only.

Step 2: Place a check by your desired payment method 
and complete fields if necessary.


_____Check or CHECK-BY-FAX [details below]


_____Money Order 


_____American Express 
Account Number__________________ Exp____/____

_____Visa
Account Number__________________ Exp____/____

_____MasterCard
Account Number__________________ Exp____/____


Please make your check or money order payable to
"Lion Sciences National".
 

Step 3: Please complete and print the following fields clearly.


Name ___________________________________________________ 


Address _________________________________________________


City ____________________________________________________ 


State ___________________________________________________ 


Zip _____________________________________________________ 


E-mail __________________________________________________ 


Signature _________________________________________________
[ required for check and credit card orders]



             Toll Free FAX Order Line: 1-800-940-6590
If faxing in your order, please state whether you require
a fax, email, or no confirmation at all. 
Allow up to one day for confirmation, if requested.
FAX orders are processed immediately.

  Or, print & mail to: LSN   
                       273 S. State Rd. 7, #193
                       Margate, FL 33068-5727               


        ______________________________________________________


*CHECK BY FAX ORDERS: Complete the check as normal. Tape
the check in the area below. Below the check, clearly write
the check number, all numbers at the bottom of the check,
& your name. Tape the check below and fax the check to the
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will electronically debit your account for the amount of 
the check; your reference number for this transaction will
be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier !

                          TAPE CHECK BELOW















              _____________________________________________________________

This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further 
contact is necessary. Please Note: Lady V is not intended to
diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. As individuals differ,
so will results. Lady V helps provide herbal and nutritional support
for female sexual performance. The FDA has not evaluated these 
statements. For details about our double your money back guarantee,
please write to the above address, attention consumer affairs 
department; enclose a self addressed stamped envelope for this and any 
requested contact information.
Thank You.



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Nov 29 22:13:51 2000
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Subject: Re: Communication from ITU-T Study Group 16 to IETF Fax Working
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:39:00 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Dear Colleagues,

> Attached please find a communication prepared during ITU-T SG16 last meeting
> (Geneva, 13-17 November 2000).
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Fabio Bigi
> TSB, Senior Counsellor
> 
>  <<LS7-16.ww9>> 

I attended the meeting. 
There are actually two letters, but they are combined into one.
Although the contact person is a new rapporteur,
Maeda-san is the key person, who wrote them.

I only introduce briefly the first part related to Full mode
at San Diego.
	  
Maeda-san,
Could you introduce the second one at San Diego?
(Yesterday, I said to you, "I will". But, it is better for you to do.)

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-Chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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To: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>, ietf-fax@imc.org
From: MAEDA toru <maeda.toru@canon.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Communication from ITU-T Study Group 16 to IETF Fax
  WorkingGroup
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Tamura-san

>Could you introduce the second one at San Diego?

I will do it at the meeting.

Regards,



At 11:39 00/11/30 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:
>Dear Colleagues,
>
> > Attached please find a communication prepared during ITU-T SG16 last 
> meeting
> > (Geneva, 13-17 November 2000).
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Fabio Bigi
> > TSB, Senior Counsellor
> >
> >  <<LS7-16.ww9>>
>
>I attended the meeting.
>There are actually two letters, but they are combined into one.
>Although the contact person is a new rapporteur,
>Maeda-san is the key person, who wrote them.
>
>I only introduce briefly the first part related to Full mode
>at San Diego.
>
>Maeda-san,
>Could you introduce the second one at San Diego?
>(Yesterday, I said to you, "I will". But, it is better for you to do.)
>
>Regards,
>--
>Hiroshi Tamura, Co-Chair of IETF-FAX WG
>E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

*****************************
Toru MAEDA
CANON Inc. OIP Technology Adv. 3
*****************************


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Voice Profile for Internet Mail Working
Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Message Context for Internet Mail
	Author(s)	: E. Burger, E. Candell, C. Eliot, G. Klyne
	Filename	: draft-ietf-vpim-hint-01.txt
	Pages		: 20
	Date		: 29-Nov-00

This memo describes a new RFC822 message header, 'Message-Context'.
This header provides information about the context and presentation
characteristics of a message.
A receiving user agent (UA) may use this information as a hint to
optimally present the message.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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Send a message to:
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
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	Title		: Critical Content of Internet Mail
	Author(s)	: E. Burger, E. Candell
	Filename	: draft-ietf-vpim-cc-02.txt
	Pages		: 14
	Date		: 29-Nov-00

This document describes a mechanism for identifying the body parts
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By knowing what parts of a message the sender deems critical, a MTA
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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Nov 30 19:05:12 2000
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Eric,

Thank you for your forwarding the two I-Ds to FAX WG.

The previous versions were introduced in FAX WG at Pittsburgh.
They are useful for Ifax devices, too, I think.

Although we have no time to introduce them at San Diego,
I recommend FAX WG members to keep watching them.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp




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Subject: REVERSE the AGING PROCESS 10-20 Years!
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toll free FAX number above. Void the check. Our merchant
will electronically debit your account for the amount of
the check; your reference number for this transaction will
be your check number. Nothing could be safer & easier !

                          TAPE CHECK BELOW
















_____________________________________________________________

This is a one time mailing: Removal is automatic and no further
contact is necessary. Please Note: HGH is not intended to
diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. The FDA has not
evaluated these statements.


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Nov 30 21:17:11 2000
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: AD review of draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-09.txt and
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I've just reviewed the revised versions of these two documents and found that
the issues I pointed out last time have all been addressed. So they are now
ready for IETF last call.

					Ned


