From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 2 13:07:38 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA21539 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000302130708-21255-9 ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:07:08 -0500 Received: from alpha.ipswitch.com (alpha.ipswitch.com [216.104.149.100]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000302130705-58263-8 ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:07:06 -0500 Received: from wks222 [216.104.149.222] by alpha.ipswitch.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id AE6E13B20112; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:09:50 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bf8471$b0d31e60$de9568d8@wks222.augusta.ipswitch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <10037.951111125@munnari.OZ.AU> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:07:06 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:04:02 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Mark Symons" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: New version of mlst draft (-10) submitted Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have just submitted rev -10 of the mlst draft - the one that > should be the last one... Oops. Then this is something I should have spotted earlier, from Section 4.4: # For other uses, the "Size" fact of the MLST command (see # section 7.5.7) ought be requested. "ought to be" would be grammatically correct. Mark Symons Augusta, GA From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 2 20:52:48 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA02914 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:52:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000302205231-3156-9 ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 20:52:31 -0500 Received: from munnari.OZ.AU (munnari.OZ.AU [128.250.1.21]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000302205227-54833-8 ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 20:52:29 -0500 Received: from mundamutti.cs.mu.OZ.AU ([128.250.1.5]) by munnari.OZ.AU with SMTP (5.83--+1.3.1+0.59) id BA27109; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:49:20 +1100 (from kre@munnari.OZ.AU) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:07:06 CDT." <000101bf8471$b0d31e60$de9568d8@wks222.augusta.ipswitch.com> Message-Id: <5746.952048159@munnari.OZ.AU> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:52:29 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:49:19 +1100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Robert Elz To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: New version of mlst draft (-10) submitted Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:07:06 -0500 From: "Mark Symons" Message-ID: <000101bf8471$b0d31e60$de9568d8@wks222.augusta.ipswitch.com> | # For other uses, the "Size" fact of the MLST command (see | # section 7.5.7) ought be requested. | | "ought to be" would be grammatically correct. I'm not so sure on that one - more common certainly, but more correct I don't know. But if it is the consensus to change that, I think that is the kind of thing that we don't have to worry about changing after we do an IETF last call... kre From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Mar 3 08:50:00 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA26714 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000303084617-21069-9 ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:46:17 -0500 Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000303084613-58977-8 ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:46:14 -0500 Received: from magnus (aus-as4-126.io.com [208.2.105.126]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19575 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:43:23 -0600 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000303073301.00b6da00@mail.io.com> X-Sender: alun@mail.io.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 In-Reply-To: <5746.952048159@munnari.OZ.AU> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:46:15 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:35:38 -0600 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Alun Jones To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: New version of mlst draft (-10) submitted At 07:52 PM 3/2/2000 , you wrote: > Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:07:06 -0500 > From: "Mark Symons" > Message-ID: <000101bf8471$b0d31e60$de9568d8@wks222.augusta.ipswitch.com> > > | # For other uses, the "Size" fact of the MLST command (see > | # section 7.5.7) ought be requested. > | > | "ought to be" would be grammatically correct. > >I'm not so sure on that one - more common certainly, but more >correct I don't know. > >But if it is the consensus to change that, I think that is the kind of >thing that we don't have to worry about changing after we do an IETF >last call... Certainly where _I'm_ from, "ought be" is incorrect and meaningless. In this instance, "to be" is an infinitive, and cannot be changed to "be". "ought be", if it is anything, is a contraction of the slang "oughta be", which is similarly a contraction of "ought to be". Alun. ~~~~ -- Texas Imperial Software | Try WFTPD, the Windows FTP Server. Find it 1602 Harvest Moon Place | at web site http://www.wftpd.com or email Cedar Park TX 78613 | us at alun@texis.com. VISA / MC accepted. Fax +1 (512) 378 3246 | NT based ISPs, be sure to read details of Phone +1 (512) 378 3246 | WFTPD Pro, NT service version - $100. *WFTPD and WFTPD Pro now available as native Alpha versions for NT* From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Mon Mar 6 06:28:26 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id GAA02083 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:28:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000306062425-54004-10 ; Mon, 06 Mar 2000 06:24:25 -0500 Received: from oric.rajabhat.ac.th (203.151.49.20 [203.151.49.20]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000306062418-28771-5 ; Mon, 06 Mar 2000 06:24:20 -0500 Received: from 203.151.49.20 by oric.rajabhat.ac.th (8.9.1/1.1.10.5/29Jul98-1040AM) id SAA0000001444; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:00:00 +0700 (GMT+0700) Message-Id: <200003061100.SAA0000001444@oric.rajabhat.ac.th> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 06:24:22 -0500 X-OldDate: Mon, 06 Mar 00 05:57:22 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: To: Distance21@bigfoot.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Re:UNLIMITED Long Distance? IMAGINE! UNLIMITED Long Distance Calling for only $35/month flat rate for the United States! This flat rate is only available in the United States at this time! It was bound to happen... there is a new telephone company offering UNLIMITED US Domestic Long Distance Calling for a flat rate of $35 per month... no computer required... phone to phone... "pin drop" quality. FREE Demo and rep information available: Please Hit Reply and leave us your : Name & e-mail address, very Important , NO information will be sent without your e-mail Address. We use an automated system that responds only to your e-mail address. Please only respond if you live in the United States! (you will receive your requested information within 24-72 hours) Thank you! Imagine being able to make UNLIMITED Long Distance calls for only $35 a month? :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: Making Dreams Come True! :::::::::::::»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«::::::::::::: This "Hot", new, technology will also allow you to (realistically) make $2-5,000 in less than 30 days part-time! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ If you have received this message in error, please reply with the word remove in the subject. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Mon Mar 6 13:36:21 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA18623 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:36:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000306133551-64148-9 ; Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:35:51 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.30.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000306133548-11691-5 ; Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:35:49 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20012; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 6 Mar 00 13:27:55 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 6 Mar 00 13:27:51 -0500 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> References: Your message of "Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:54:59 CDT." <38C38E9D.18681.2D0AAF49@localhost> In-reply-to: <23687.952364426@munnari.OZ.AU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:35:49 -0500 X-OldDate: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:27:49 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: kre@munnari.OZ.AU Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 7 Mar 2000, at 4:40, Robert Elz wrote: > | 1. with respect to FEAT and RESTart, should implementations that > | support REST BLOCK say so in the feat request? Thats not mentioned | in > the draft. > > Modes of REST other than STREAM mode have been defined in FTP since > forever - if those transfer modes are supported at all, the REST > ought to be supported with them. FEAT is only intended to > advertise features that have been added to FTP since 959 - the theory > being that everyone supports all of 959 (which is nonsense of > course, but at least it gives a clear delineation). Ok. I just thought it might be more complete to mention that servers MAY include REST BLOCK and so forth in the FEAT list. > Ending the fact list with semicolon (rather than space) came very > late in the evolution of the draft, and was really done to ease > generation of the fact list, rather than parsing of it. I doubt > that anyone even gave a second thought to the effect that would have > on allowing spaces in the fact list. Would it make sense to say that feature values that contain special characters should be URL encoded? I know this is too late for this draft, but a follow-on clarification of how to handle feature values that contain reserved characters might be useful in the future. URL encoded does not excite me, but I think that there should be some definition of how to handle arbitrary feature values. If this can't get into this draft, is this still the best place to discuss it? > | 3. Servers will need to talk to new clients and old clients. If the > server | sends a UTF-8 pathname to a client that can't handle it, strange > things | may result. | | Should "new" clients specifically request UTF-8 > pathnames be | enabled using a new option? > > Clients that use the MLST command are not old ones. The mere act > of doing that is asking for UTF-8 pathnames. The listing commands > are the only time that the server ever returns path names to the client, Ok, so you're saying that PWD should not return UTF-8 paths? I know the doc says that MLST must support UTF-8, but it does not mention "legacy" commands such as PWD. Do you think this may leave the issue unclear? Perhaps in the "pathnames" section it should say that servers and clients MUST use ASCII/EBCDIC names for all commands except for MLST. > Various FTP commands take pathnames as arguments, or return pathnames > in responses. When the MLST command is supported, as indicated in > the response to the FEAT command [6], pathnames are to be transferred in > one of the following two formats. > > pathname = utf-8-name / raw > utf-8-name = > raw = As I read this, I read it to mean that: if the server includes MLST in the FEAT list, then pathnames (to any command or from any command) are either utf-8 or raw. As I client, I'd infer that MLST appearing in the FEAT list allows me to use UTF-8 with any command. As a server, I'd say that if my FEAT list would return MLST, then I can use UTF-8 anywhere as well and might receive UTF-8 pathnames anywhere. I'm sure I've missed this somewhere else in the document (having read it rather quickly), but my concern is returning UTF-8 pathnames to old clients. (I happen to be operating in an environment where there is a difference). --- Where can I find a client implementation that supports this draft? Thanks, -Brad Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 7 09:24:21 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA08377 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307091752-64162-9 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:17:52 -0500 Received: from munnari.OZ.AU (munnari.OZ.AU [128.250.1.21]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307091746-40284-5 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:17:47 -0500 Received: from mundamutti.cs.mu.OZ.AU ([128.250.1.5]) by munnari.OZ.AU with SMTP (5.83--+1.3.1+0.59) id OA13644; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:14:44 +1100 (from kre@munnari.OZ.AU) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:27:49 CDT." <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> Message-Id: <8045.952438483@munnari.OZ.AU> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:17:48 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 01:14:43 +1100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Robert Elz To: bkc@murkworks.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:27:49 -0500 From: "Brad Clements" Message-ID: <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> [Aside to list members: Brad asked Paul Hethmon and I a set of questions about the draft - one of which was whether there is a list to discuss it. I replied, answered most of the questions (I think), and included the list address - Brad's message to the list was a reply to that reply of mine - so in a sense, you're coming in in the middle of a brief discussion]. | Ok. I just thought it might be more complete to mention that servers | MAY include REST BLOCK and so forth in the FEAT list. I'm not sure it would do a lot of good of itself. Perhaps better might be to indicate support of BLOCK mode at all - but that I don't think is in scope for the current draft. | Would it make sense to say that feature values that contain special | characters should be URL encoded? The draft says somewhere that such things should be encoded (need to be encoded). It doesn't say how, as none of the facts so far defined need any defined encoding of that form. When a fact that would need such encoding is defined, then the encoding method will need to be defined as well - I would expect that a common method for encoding most facts that might need it would be useful. But I wouldn't necessarily agree that one universal encoding method will necessarily be suitable for all facts ever defined - an ecoding method suitable for a fact that will occasionally contain an "unusual" character, isn't likely to be best for encoding a fact that will typically contain mostly "unusual" characters, and vice versa. So, I'd prefer to leave that unspecified for now. | Ok, so you're saying that PWD should not return UTF-8 paths? PWD I'd forgotten... Or rather, I had forgotten until after I sent the reply. I'm not sure it how much it matters though. In most cases, the current directory won't be down a non-ascii pathname unless the client has instructed the server to go there. I know that it is possible to log in directly to anywhere in the NFVS tree, and so potentially get any path in the reply. It would probably be wise for servers, and server operators to avoid that happening, until at least most clients understand more than ascii. | I know the doc says that MLST must support UTF-8, but it does not | mention "legacy" commands such as PWD. Do you think this may | leave the issue unclear? Actually, I thought it did say that all pathnames, in all commands, would be affected. | Perhaps in the "pathnames" section it should say that servers and | clients MUST use ASCII/EBCDIC names for all commands except for | MLST. No, that would not be productive - having obtained a listing containing non-ascii pathnames, how would the client ever manipulate the files listed? The FTP server really must deal with the file system it finds under it. That's always been the case. If there are are non-ascii file or directory names, then the server really doesn't have a lot of choice, other than I guess attempting to encode them somehow, and then deal with receiving encoded filenames back. | As I read this, I read it to mean that: | | if the server includes MLST in the FEAT list, then pathnames (to any | command or from any command) are either utf-8 or raw. The "pathname" in the grammar is relaly only intended to be useful for this particular doc, 959 doesn't have a grammar. But in spite of that, I agree with the conclusion, if not the method of reaching it. | As I client, I'd infer that MLST appearing in the FEAT list allows me to | use UTF-8 with any command. I don't think you need to infer it, I think (I hope...) the draft actually explicitly says that. | As a server, I'd say that if my FEAT list would return MLST, then I can | use UTF-8 anywhere as well and might receive UTF-8 pathnames | anywhere. Yes. But that you can does not mean that you necessarily automatically should, if there is a reasonable alternative. If there isn't, then you really have no choice. If the operators of the filestore have arranged to implement it in a way that will cause problems for many clients, then either the filestore will be ignored, or the clients will get upgraded, depending upon just how desireable it is. | Where can I find a client implementation that supports this draft? I have one, but "support" is truly rudimentary (it allowed be to exercise the servers that are around, and get the examples that are included in the draft). It isn't something I would let a user near though (or distribute). Aside from that, I'm not sure. Since it is possible for a server to support this doc without in any way altering its appearance to old clients, I expect that updated servers will appear first, and only when there are reasonable numbers of servers around will clients that make use of them appear. kre From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 7 09:54:42 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA16404 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:54:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307094608-40100-9 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:46:08 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.30.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307094606-55319-5 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:46:06 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21754 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 7 Mar 00 09:40:47 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 7 Mar 00 09:40:22 -0500 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <38C4CE86.21614.438CB0B@localhost> References: Your message of "Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:27:49 CDT." <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> In-reply-to: <8045.952438483@munnari.OZ.AU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:46:06 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:40:20 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 7 Mar 2000, at 9:17, Robert Elz wrote: > [Aside to list members: Brad asked Paul Hethmon and I a set of questions > about the draft - one of which was whether there is a list to discuss it. I > replied, answered most of the questions (I think), and included the list > address - Brad's message to the list was a reply to that reply of mine - so > in a sense, you're coming in in the middle of a brief discussion]. I'm now on this list. I'd like to apologize for "barging in" and copying the list in the middle of a conversation, sorry! > | Would it make sense to say that feature values that contain special | > characters should be URL encoded? > > The draft says somewhere that such things should be encoded (need to > be encoded). It doesn't say how, as none of the facts so far defined > So, I'd prefer to leave that unspecified for now. Ok. So if a feature appears that will be commonly used and if it contains "special characters" (ie, semi-colon or space) then the document describing that feature will also describe how it is encoded. > | Ok, so you're saying that PWD should not return UTF-8 paths? > > PWD I'd forgotten... Or rather, I had forgotten until after I sent > the reply. I'm not sure it how much it matters though. In most > cases, the current directory won't be down a non-ascii pathname > unless the client has instructed the server to go there. I know that > it is possible to log in directly to anywhere in the NFVS tree, and > so potentially get any path in the reply. It would probably be wise > for servers, and server operators to avoid that happening, until at > least most clients understand more than ascii. Well this is the crux of my problem. In the Novell NetWare environment, we can return "long" and "short" names. Short names (AKA DOS namespace) won't have non-ascii characters. However we have customers demanding support NOW for accented characters in the long namespace. We really need to know if the client can accept UTF-8 in the PWD response. If the client issues an MLSx command, we'll know that they can accept UTF-8 pathnames, so PWD will return UTF-8 paths. Otherwise, we'll have to assume that it's an old client, and not return UTF-8 pathnames from PWD. If we encounter a path (which may be their starting directory after login) that has non-ascii characters, we have to return the short (DOS) form of the pathname. I think this is not ideal. > The FTP server really must deal with the file system it finds under it. > That's always been the case. If there are are non-ascii file or directory > names, then the server really doesn't have a lot of choice, other than I > guess attempting to encode them somehow, and then deal with receiving > encoded filenames back. Our server has a choice since each pathname is represented by at least one, but possibly five different namespaces. DOS, MAC, NFS, LONG, FTAM Until we're certain that the client can accept a UTF-8 pathname, we'll be forced to use the DOS namespace if the pathname has non-ascii characters in the default namespace (ie, LONG) > | As a server, I'd say that if my FEAT list would return MLST, then I can > | use UTF-8 anywhere as well and might receive UTF-8 pathnames | > anywhere. > > Yes. But that you can does not mean that you necessarily automatically > should, if there is a reasonable alternative. If there isn't, then you > really have no choice. If the operators of the filestore have arranged to > implement it in a way that will cause problems for many clients, then > either the filestore will be ignored, or the clients will get upgraded, > depending upon just how desireable it is. If our server assumes that clients are "old" until identified as new, then PWD will return a DOS name if the LONG name has non-ascii characters. If the client supports UTF-8, we won't know this until they issue an MLSx command. Most clients start with a SYST and PWD as their first commands, not LIST or NLST. Therefore the client, even if it supports UTF-8, MAY get the wrong pathname from its first PWD command. Consider C> PWD S> /sys/usr/gunte C> MLSD S> 220 .... C> PWD S> /sys/usr/gunt<220><123> totally made up, but you can see the problem.. I feel that this part of the draft leaves an ambiguity. What does PWD return before the client has issued an MLSx command? I suppose this is too late to get into the draft, but it would be nice if there were a "CLIENT-FEATURE" command that the client could issue, at any point, that tells the server what features the client supports. In this case, UTF-8 is the only client-side feature that I can think of. C> CFEA UTF-8 S> 220 Client Feature noted: UTF-8 > > | Where can I find a client implementation that supports this draft? > > Since it is possible for a server to support this doc without in any > way altering its appearance to old clients, I expect that updated servers > will appear first, and only when there are reasonable numbers of servers > around will clients that make use of them appear. Sure, but it would be nice to be able to test our server with a somewhat conforming client, rather than typing everything by-hand. Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 7 10:35:08 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA25458 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307102748-18328-11 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:27:48 -0500 Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307102746-55815-5 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:27:46 -0500 Received: from magnus (aus-as3-156.io.com [208.2.106.156]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17482 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:24:52 -0600 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000307090124.00b75930@mail.io.com> X-Sender: alun@mail.io.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 In-Reply-To: <38C4CE86.21614.438CB0B@localhost> References: <8045.952438483@munnari.OZ.AU> <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:27:46 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:25:24 -0600 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Alun Jones To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments At 08:46 AM 3/7/2000 , you wrote: >Well this is the crux of my problem. In the Novell NetWare environment, >we can return "long" and "short" names. Short names (AKA DOS >namespace) won't have non-ascii characters. However we have >customers demanding support NOW for accented characters in the long >namespace. Now, when you say "non-ascii" characters, do you truly mean that Novell's "DOS namespace" cannot contain characters outside the range 32-127? Certainly, my DOS machine can put those characters into files, as can be shown by simply typing "COPY CON .txt", where "" means holding down the Alt key, while typing "250" on the numeric keypad, then releasing the Alt key. I get a nice little dot in the middle of the character - produces an 'a' with a grave accent, and other sequences are possible. >We really need to know if the client can accept UTF-8 in the PWD >response. > >If the client issues an MLSx command, we'll know that they can accept >UTF-8 pathnames, so PWD will return UTF-8 paths. > >Otherwise, we'll have to assume that it's an old client, and not return >UTF-8 pathnames from PWD. If we encounter a path (which may be >their starting directory after login) that has non-ascii characters, we have >to return the short (DOS) form of the pathname. If you have no reason to assume that the client is aware of UTF-8 encoding, then you have, as I see it, three choices: 1. Act like an RFC-959 compliant server and return 7-bit characters only. 2. Act like most FTP servers and pass the 8-bit character code in raw, and hope that the client can figure it out. 3. Return UTF-8 anyway - most clients are going to be capable of dealing with 8-bit character sequences, and UTF-8 is merely an encoding into an 8-bit character sequence; further, where the characters used are 'regular' 7-bit ASCII, the UTF-8 encoding is the same as the ASCII encoding. Either of these options may require you encoding certain characters, but does not necessarily prohibit you from using the long filename - as long as the encoding is reversible, i.e. that the client can request the name provided in a PWD response, or an NLST/LIST listing, to fetch the file. >Our server has a choice since each pathname is represented by at least >one, but possibly five different namespaces. DOS, MAC, NFS, LONG, >FTAM > >Until we're certain that the client can accept a UTF-8 pathname, we'll be >forced to use the DOS namespace if the pathname has non-ascii >characters in the default namespace (ie, LONG) What does your FTP server do currently (i.e. assuming that this draft document had never been written)? >If our server assumes that clients are "old" until identified as new, then >PWD will return a DOS name if the LONG name has non-ascii >characters. If the client supports UTF-8, we won't know this until they >issue an MLSx command. And by that time, changing the output of some commands may cause problems as they will then disagree with information that the client has cached. >Most clients start with a SYST and PWD as their first commands, not >LIST or NLST. Therefore the client, even if it supports UTF-8, MAY get >the wrong pathname from its first PWD command. > >Consider >C> PWD >S> /sys/usr/gunte >C> MLSD >S> 220 .... >C> PWD >S> /sys/usr/gunt<220><123> > >totally made up, but you can see the problem.. > >I feel that this part of the draft leaves an ambiguity. What does PWD >return before the client has issued an MLSx command? That's more an issue for the I18N document (*) to address than the MLST document; and it does so: [From the book of RFC, chapter 2640, verse 4.1] A new command "LANG" is added to the FTP command set to allow server-FTP process to determine in which language to present server greetings and the textual part of command responses. The parameter associated with the LANG command SHALL be one of the language tags defined in RFC 1766 [RFC1766]. If a LANG command without a parameter is issued the server's default language will be used. Greetings and responses issued prior to language negotiation SHALL be in the server's default language. Paragraph 4.5 of [RFC2277] state that this "default language MUST be understandable by an English- speaking person". This specification RECOMMENDS that the server default language be English encoded using ASCII. This text may be augmented by text from other languages. Once negotiated, server-PI MUST return server messages and textual part of command responses in the negotiated language and encoded in UTF-8. Server-PI MAY wish to re-send previously issued server messages in the newly negotiated language. In other words, all PWD and other responses must be in "English encoded using ASCII" unless the LANG command is issued. Note that MLST's use of the UTF-8 specification is more to tie it in to the RFC 2640 document than it is to mandate sweeping changes to the FTP standard in that respect - it is RFC 2640 that mandates those changes. >I suppose this is too late to get into the draft, but it would be nice if >there were a "CLIENT-FEATURE" command that the client could issue, >at any point, that tells the server what features the client supports. > >In this case, UTF-8 is the only client-side feature that I can think of. > >C> CFEA UTF-8 >S> 220 Client Feature noted: UTF-8 This would be "LANG EN", selecting English as the language, or "LANG" - either will indicate to the server that you're able to understand UTF-8. >Sure, but it would be nice to be able to test our server with a somewhat >conforming client, rather than typing everything by-hand. And the client authors say "it would be nice to be able to test our client with a somewhat conforming server..." :-) There's somewhat of a chicken-and-egg situation here, and as a server author, I do feel your pain - personally, I knocked up a quick and dirty hack to an existing FTP client code. I wouldn't feel comfortable releasing it, of course, since it is so quick and dirty (everything's hard-coded). Alun. ~~~~ (*) RFC 2640 makes occasional reference to the "HOST" command being defined in the MLST document - this, of course, is now no longer happening. -- Texas Imperial Software | Try WFTPD, the Windows FTP Server. Find it 1602 Harvest Moon Place | at web site http://www.wftpd.com or email Cedar Park TX 78613 | us at alun@texis.com. VISA / MC accepted. Fax +1 (512) 378 3246 | NT based ISPs, be sure to read details of Phone +1 (512) 378 3246 | WFTPD Pro, NT service version - $100. *WFTPD and WFTPD Pro now available as native Alpha versions for NT* From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 7 12:13:08 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA13277 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307120929-9987-9 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:09:29 -0500 Received: from crydee.sai.msu.ru (crydee.sai.msu.ru [195.208.220.203]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307120906-47256-5 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:09:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (asv1@localhost) by crydee.sai.msu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA75917 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:11:52 GMT (envelope-from asv1@crydee.sai.msu.ru) In-Reply-To: <38C3B270.6016.2D969F38@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:09:27 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:11:52 +0000 (GMT) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Sergey Ayukov To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Brad Clements wrote: > > | 3. Servers will need to talk to new clients and old clients. If the > > server | sends a UTF-8 pathname to a client that can't handle it, strange > > things | may result. | | Should "new" clients specifically request UTF-8 > > pathnames be | enabled using a new option? > > > > Clients that use the MLST command are not old ones. The mere act > > of doing that is asking for UTF-8 pathnames. The listing commands > > are the only time that the server ever returns path names to the client, > > Ok, so you're saying that PWD should not return UTF-8 paths? > > I know the doc says that MLST must support UTF-8, but it does not > mention "legacy" commands such as PWD. Do you think this may > leave the issue unclear? > > Perhaps in the "pathnames" section it should say that servers and > clients MUST use ASCII/EBCDIC names for all commands except for > MLST. While reading this part of the draft I had a feeling that it has too clean-mind design. In other words, it totally ignores the current situation (when 99% of clients/server speak national characters and not Unicode; some clients (MSIE, Mozilla) do support Unicode but it is mostly unused). Without real-world test implementation it is hard to predict what was omitted and what was specified in unreasonable way. IMHO RFC2640 is an example: I have pretty high doubts whether it will make into FTP clients/servers. Note: you should probably view these comments as 'feelings-at-the-first-glance' and not a flamebait. > > Various FTP commands take pathnames as arguments, or return pathnames > > in responses. When the MLST command is supported, as indicated in > > the response to the FEAT command [6], pathnames are to be transferred in > > one of the following two formats. > > > > pathname = utf-8-name / raw > > utf-8-name = > > raw = > > As I read this, I read it to mean that: > > if the server includes MLST in the FEAT list, then pathnames (to any > command or from any command) are either utf-8 or raw. > > As I client, I'd infer that MLST appearing in the FEAT list allows me to > use UTF-8 with any command. > > As a server, I'd say that if my FEAT list would return MLST, then I can > use UTF-8 anywhere as well and might receive UTF-8 pathnames > anywhere. Such guessing (caused by vague standard) ought to provoke great mess! Am I wrong? > Where can I find a client implementation that supports this draft? My FTP client does support some features found in the current draft (MLST) but not the internationalization stuff: I just don't see the demand. MLST/FEAT support is not enabled by default, you have to set an option in nftp.ini. Critisms and comments about NFTP are welcome. Also I suspect that ncftp by Mike Gleason should have MLST support since ncftpd supports it (draft-05 compliance is claimed). -- Dr. Sergey Ayukov | NFTP: Spell differently. Work faster. http://www.ayukov.com | mailto:asv@ayukov.com | runs on: BeOS * OS/2 * Unix * Windows From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 7 14:35:32 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA14834 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:35:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307143520-62931-9 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:35:20 -0500 Received: from mail-relay.eunet.no (mail-relay.eunet.no [193.71.71.242]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000307143516-44903-5 ; Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:35:16 -0500 Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by mail-relay.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.3/GN) with ESMTP id UAA31257 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:32:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from terje.flaaronning@eunet.no) Received: from home1 (frog@port119.megapop.eunet.no [193.71.82.119]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.3/GN) with SMTP id UAA20501 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:32:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from terje.flaaronning@eunet.no) Message-Id: <200003071932.UAA20501@login-2.eunet.no> X-Mailer: PMMail 2.10.2010 for OS/2 Warp 4.05 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-relay.eunet.no id UAA31257 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:35:18 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:32:17 +0100 (CET) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Terje_Flaar=F8nning?=" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id OAA14834 On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:09:27 -0500, Sergey Ayukov wrote: >My FTP client does support some features found in the current draft (MLST) >but not the internationalization stuff: I just don't see the >demand. MLST/FEAT support is not enabled by default, you have to set an >option in nftp.ini. Critisms and comments about NFTP are welcome. Also I >suspect that ncftp by Mike Gleason should have MLST support since ncftpd >supports it (draft-05 compliance is claimed). I've just added MLST/MLSD "support" to my server in the same matter even tho the draft says UTF-8 must be supported. Until I see the demand I'll probably do nothing about it. ...Terje... Terje Flaarønning ----------------- Tel#: +47-23 00 99 11 Terje Flaarønning Mob#: +47-91 60 90 25 Bergensgt. 4 Fax#: +47-91 46 35 36 N-0468 Oslo URL : http://home.eunet.no/~ill From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 9 03:58:18 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA16472 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 03:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309034856-9705-9 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 03:48:56 -0500 Received: from crydee.sai.msu.ru (crydee.sai.msu.ru [195.208.220.203]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309034849-6396-8 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 03:48:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (asv1@localhost) by crydee.sai.msu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA88188 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:51:38 GMT (envelope-from asv1@crydee.sai.msu.ru) In-Reply-To: <8045.952438483@munnari.OZ.AU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 03:48:54 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:51:38 +0000 (GMT) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Sergey Ayukov To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Robert Elz wrote: > | Ok, so you're saying that PWD should not return UTF-8 paths? > > PWD I'd forgotten... Or rather, I had forgotten until after I sent > the reply. I'm not sure it how much it matters though. In most > cases, the current directory won't be down a non-ascii pathname > unless the client has instructed the server to go there. I know that > it is possible to log in directly to anywhere in the NFVS tree, and > so potentially get any path in the reply. It would probably be wise > for servers, and server operators to avoid that happening, until at > least most clients understand more than ascii. > > | I know the doc says that MLST must support UTF-8, but it does not > | mention "legacy" commands such as PWD. Do you think this may > | leave the issue unclear? > > Actually, I thought it did say that all pathnames, in all commands, > would be affected. Sorry? To quote draft-10: Various FTP commands take pathnames as arguments, or return pathnames in responses. When the MLST command is supported, as indicated in the response to the FEAT command [6], pathnames are to be transferred in one of the following two formats. pathname = utf-8-name / raw utf-8-name = raw = Which format is used is at the option of the user-PI or server-PI sending the pathname. UTF-8 encodings [2] contain enough internal structure that it is always, in practice, possible to determine whether a UTF-8 or raw encoding has been used, in those cases where it matters. This looks like raw pathnames are permitted? (Note: and only possibility to find out whether this is a raw or UTF-8 string is guessing). I'd like to comment this a little. But first some facts and opinions about Unicode. I hope it won't trigger the discussion similar to one with Alex Belits. It is known that at least in several non-English speaking countries (examples are Russia and Japan) Unicode in general and its implementations such as UTF-8 are frowned upon by users. There are several reasons why this has happened. The most important one is that many programs in wide use don't support Unicode texts. For example, if I would want to view text file with UTF-8 contents I'll either have to convert it to 866 or KOI8, or find the software which does it automatically while viewing. On the other hand, almost all software will display this file properly if it is already in 866 or KOI8 encoding and proper fonts are installed -- even when this software wasn't designed to work with 866 or KOI8. The second most important reason is huge base of accumulated texts in national encodings. However, this does not mean that Unicode is useless. It is far from that because it allows to have single version of the program to work with many languages and encodings without enormous amount of work which would be required to support all national encodings. That's why Unicode is mostly pursued by large companies who produce multi-language products (to sell in many countries) and have resources to implement Unicode support. The examples are operating systems, wordprocessors and browsers. The most part of the momentum gained by Unicode in Russia is IMHO due to the fact that it is used/supported in newer versions of Microsoft Word and Outlook. But since Word has its own document format Unicode continues to be pretty much contained within Word :-) Furthermore, wide acceptance of the Unicode would allow to get rid of several variants of national encodings. For example, Russia uses 5 ones: 866 (DOS, OS/2), 1251 (Windows), KOI8 (Unix), ISO8859-5 (some Unixes, but now pretty much unused), and Mac. This is great, convoluted mess. Personally, I'd like to see Unicode to take over the world so that everything would happen in it (and have 32 bit in byte so that ugly workarounds like UTF-8 would be unnecessary). But right now I don't see it happening; for example, my mail client (pine) cannot handle it. At such level of acceptance IMHO it is unreasonable to demand Unicode support at the protocol level. Now let's return to our FTP protocol. Given the current situation (Unicode is good but national encodings are more popular than it right now) I don't see any point in tying MLSx support to UTF-8 support. These are in fact totally independent things and I see no reasons to associate them with each other. What bad things can happen from this tying? I can imagine two ones. Firstly, server/client authors who don't want to add Unicode support (due to real or perceived lack of demand) might choose not to implement MLSx at all (to be on somewhat safer side of RFC conformance). Secondly, MLSx could get implemented but without UTF-8 support (this is already happening). Since draft-10 does not provide a way to find out whether server really talks UTF-8, aware clients will have to guess. This is bad. The way I like things to be in FTP protocol: make clients and servers capable in telling/setting encoding used in filenames and commands, including PWD, MLSx, LIST(!), DELE etc. I.e. server will have some default encoding determined during the installation process. Typically that will be encoding used in the underlying filesystem, but this can also be UTF-8, or something else (e.g. Unix FTP server could be set up to automatically translate from KOI8 to 866). When unaware clients connect to it they operate in that encoding (while not actually knowing that). When aware client connects to such server, it can either query the default (and if default is reasonable for it, proceed) or request from server the list of supported encodings, or simply try to set the encoding it wants to work in (even if UTF-8 is not an encoding I use this term for all methods of communicating non-ASCII information). This IMHO would allow for gradual introduction of UTF-8 into FTP world. Unicode proponents might argue that this will slow down acceptance of Unicode because servers are going to talk national encodings first (since these are already in the filesystem, and no conversion is necessary), but I don't think this is important. Short summary: we shouldn't push Unicode acceptance, but provide an easy way to add its support in inambiguous way when necessary. Q: Why we shouldn't require UTF-8 support in MLSx. A: 1) Because it will also require UTF-8 support in CWD/PWD/DELE/etc. 2) Because there are certainly going to be a number of semi-broken implementations which will not actually support Unicode but provide MLSx interface. 3) Because Unicode has not gained widespread acceptance yet and old-style national encodings must be permitted and method to determine the encoding is needed. Q: Why can't we require UTF-8 support in CWD/PWD/DELETE/etc.? A: 1) Because it will break existing infrastructure. 2) Because it would be chicken-and-egg problem: servers won't support it before clients, and clients won't support it before servers (remember EPLF discussions!) The RFC2640 is a special case. Sentences like "Another feature is that the encoding rules make it very unlikely that a character sequence from a different character set will be mistaken for a UTF-8 encoded character sequence. Clients and servers can use a simple routine to determine if the character set being exchanged is valid UTF-8" make me really wonder whether this RFC pretends to be a standard because it expicitly suggests guessing at the protocol level, and leaves no possibility to find out whether guessing has been correct! ("There may be cases when the code set / encoding presented to the server or client cannot be determined. In such cases the raw bytes SHOULD be used.") And as I already wrote requiring UTF-8 is at least unreasonable at the current level of general Unicode acceptance. The good thing is that at least FEAT option is included to indicate UTF-8 support in servers, but clients cannot turn it off! In other words, i18n-ed server suddenly breaks all existing clients when dealing with non-ASCII filenames because UTF-8 support is required from it, is turned on by default, and there's no way to turn it off. I don't want to comment on the LANG command because I don't think it is important. Finally, my proposed solutions: -- problem posed by Brad Clements: support filenames encoded as in underlying filesystem because users almost certainly are going to work with them via other ways (not FTP) and consistency is a good thing. RFC2640 is `clever' enough even to make this compliant with it! Provide an installation option to turn on Unicode support for users who need to use many languages at once and are willing to develop/search for new FTP clients with Unicode which could appear in some (perhaps not very distant) future; -- mlst-draft: remove everything related to i18n. -- Dr. Sergey Ayukov | NFTP: Spell differently. Work faster. http://www.ayukov.com | mailto:asv@ayukov.com | runs on: BeOS * OS/2 * Unix * Windows From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 9 08:44:59 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA05889 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:44:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309083937-36025-9 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:39:37 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (128.153.30.16 [128.153.30.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309083934-50389-8 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:39:34 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25772 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 9 Mar 00 08:34:08 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 9 Mar 00 08:33:54 -0500 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <38C761F4.15181.E48AFE0@localhost> References: <8045.952438483@munnari.OZ.AU> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:39:35 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:33:48 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT With respect to Sergey's recent post. I can't comment on the internationalization issues. I do think that the pathname format being sent by the server, or the client, should be un-ambigious. The client should be able to tell the server "I'll accept UTF-8, I can send UTF-8" and the server should be able to say "I can send UTF-8, I can receive UTF-8". I know the LANG option was mentioned as a way to do some of this, but I think it would be good to eleminate "guess" and path-type determination based on inspection. Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 9 08:51:31 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA08216 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:51:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309084833-10126-10 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:48:33 -0500 Received: from crydee.sai.msu.ru (crydee.sai.msu.ru [195.208.220.203]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309084829-47358-8 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:48:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (asv1@localhost) by crydee.sai.msu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA90269 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:51:22 GMT (envelope-from asv1@crydee.sai.msu.ru) In-Reply-To: <38C761F4.15181.E48AFE0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:48:31 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:51:22 +0000 (GMT) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Sergey Ayukov To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Re: draft-ietf-ftpext-mlst-10 comments On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Brad Clements wrote: > I know the LANG option was mentioned as a way to do some of this, but > I think it would be good to eleminate "guess" and path-type > determination based on inspection. The LANG option (as defined in RFC2640) talks about server messages (such as greetings, error messages, etc.) and does not affect the encoding of the pathnames/filenames. -- Dr. Sergey Ayukov | NFTP: Spell differently. Work faster. http://www.ayukov.com | mailto:asv@ayukov.com | runs on: BeOS * OS/2 * Unix * Windows From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 9 23:53:01 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA16344 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:53:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309234153-58040-10 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:41:53 -0500 Received: from ns.unreal.co.jp (ns.unreal.co.jp [210.154.21.210]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000309234146-32163-8 ; Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:41:50 -0500 Received: from 210.154.025.210 (ip163.sacramento10.ca.pub-ip.psi.net [38.28.28.163]) by ns.unreal.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7Wpl2/unreal1.00) with SMTP id NAA20089; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:46:57 +0900 Message-ID: <9503247168.kls73662@rly-v84027.ebara.co.jp> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 23:41:51 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 09 Mar 00 19:37:28 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: carolwhi@ebara.co.jp To: susansts@earthlink.net Subject: Ftp-WG: Increase Sales w/4 Powerful Words!!! To be removed, please email karrit23@bigfoot.com and type remove in the subject line. You will be removed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Increase Sales w/4 Powerful Words!!! We Accept Credit Cards Accept All Major Credit Cards!!! If you own your own business, you're starting a new business or know someone who is... Being able to accept Major Credit cards can make all the difference in the world! Just the fact that you accept credit cards adds credibility to your business. Especially if you are a New, Small or Home Based Business. It's Vital To Your Success!!! If you are a Home Based Business, Internet Business, Small Business, Network Marketing Business, Software Vender, MLM, Communication Business, Any Kind of Business, you need the ability to accept Major Credit Cards. You could be accepting Major Credit Cards with in 2 weeks, If You Act Now! We have Waived the normal $195.00 Application Fee with this Offer! Good Credit helps. Bad Credit or No Credit, No Problem. 99% of our Applicants are Approved! Features Include: -Real Time Processing -Online Checks -Shopping Cart -Processing On or Off Line -Discount Rates as Low as 1.49% -And much More Call Now!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To have a representative contact you, please call our toll free voice mail and leave the following Info. 1-888-248-6515 Name_____________________________________ Phone_______________________ Best Time To Call_____Pacific - Mountain - Central - Eastern - Hawaii Company Name______________________________ Type of Product______________________________ A merchant account representative will contact you soon. ---------------------------------------------------------------- What our customers are saying... "Thank you very much for the Merchant account I received last week...The service and the expertise provided by you and your colleagues was just great. Regarding the product, this is exactly what we needed. One thing is for sure; I will definitely recommend people to you. You guys are great." - J.M. in California "Just a quick note to tell you that I have received my Merchant account and it is everything you said it would be. I had no trouble with the configuration and the directions and online help were second to none. I think you have a fine product and I am completely satisfied; I will be passing your info along to the local business people here as I think you may be able to satisfy some others." - J.G. in Maryland "Thank you for all the advise and time that you spent with me on the telephone in the past few weeks, it is a rare thing in today's busy world to find someone who is willing to do that. We are looking forward to many years of working to together with your fine company." - J.B.R.in New Jersey "I never got a chance to thank you both for all of the effort you put into making our online business a success. By far, you guys are the most responsive people we have ever dealt with, when buying an online processing system. Although cost is important to me, I also value customer service, and I must say I was extremely pleased with the service I received." - D.H. in California ******************************************************* ******************************************************* ******************************************************* ******************************************************* ******************************************************* ****************** 7392618-479 From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sun Mar 12 08:32:50 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA19793 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000312083053-16881-9 ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:30:53 -0500 Received: from eagle.wccs.k12.in.us (eagle.wccs.k12.in.us [206.140.184.100]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000312083049-30225-8 ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:30:51 -0500 Received: from y39H430AY (ABE141A8.ipt.aol.com [171.225.65.168]) by eagle.wccs.k12.in.us (8.9.3/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA29123; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:56:16 -0500 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:30:51 -0500 X-OldDate: 12 Mar 00 4:53:30 AM Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: h5HsDR8UV@hypermart.com To: lkjl;kl@eagle.wccs.k12.in.us;; Subject: Ftp-WG: ON-LINEOTCREVIEW.COM. ANALYSTS INITIATE COVERAGE OF ACEN(OTCBB) ON-LINEOTCREVIEW.COM initiates coverage of ACEN(OTCBB).Our analysts' investment opinions include detailed analysis and price targets for American Communication Enterprises,Inc.See what the analysts have to say and review S.E.C. filings and news releases on ACEN(OTCBB). ON-LINEOTCREVIEW.COM and its analysts have been compensated by American Communication Enterprises,Inc.(ACEN). for more info visit www.on-lineotcreview.com or click here From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sun Mar 12 17:36:27 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA28897 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000312173636-705-10 ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:36:36 -0500 Received: from apn.seika.kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp (asn.biochem.kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp [130.54.50.202]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000312173631-560-8 ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:36:32 -0500 Received: from showme (98AE2E2B.ipt.aol.com [152.174.46.43]) by apn.seika.kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA02747; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:35:56 +0900 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:36:33 -0500 X-OldDate: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:30:59 -0800 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: spyingtoday@post.com To: denny@hotmail.com Subject: Ftp-WG: INTERNET SPY! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT //////////////////////////////////////// one time mailing- no need to remove //////////////////////////////////////// CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION YOU WANT TO KNOW. This is the software they want banned from the INTERNET! "The Internet Desktop Spy" shows you how to get the facts on anyone using the Internet. LOCATE MISSING PERSONS, find lost relatives, obtain addresses and phone numbers of old school friends, even skip trace dead beat spouses. This is not a Private Investigator, but a SOFTWARE program DESIGNED to automatically CRACK YOUR CASE with links to thousands of Public Record Databases Find out SECRETS about your relatives, friends, enemies, and everyone else! -- even your spouse! With the New - "Internet Desktop SPY" You will be AMAZED at what you can discover: LICENSE PLATE NUMBER - Get anyone's name and address with just a license plate number! (Find that girl you met in traffic!) DRIVING RECORD - Get anyone's driving record! SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER - Trace anyone by social security number! ADDRESS - Get anyone's address with just a name! UNLISTED PHONE NUMBERS - Get anyone's phone number with just a name- even unlisted numbers! LOCATE - Long lost friends, relatives, a past lover who broke your heart! E-MAIL - Send anyone anonymous e-mail that's completely untraceable! DIRTY SECRETS - Discover dirty secrets your in-laws don't want you to know! INVESTIGATE ANYONE - Use the sources that private investigators use (all on the Internet) secretly! EX-SPOUSE - Learn how to get information on an ex-spouse that will help you win in court! (Dig up old skeletons) CRIMINAL SEARCH - BACKGROUND CHECK - Find out about your daughter's boyfriend! (or her husband) FIND OUT - If you are being investigated! NEIGHBORS - Learn all about your mysterious neighbors! Find out what they have to hide! PEOPLE YOU WORK WITH - Be astonished by what you'll learn about the people you work with! EDUCATION VERIFICATION - Did he really graduate college? Find out! "The Internet Desktop Spy" will help you discover ANYTHING about anyone, with clickable hyperlinks and no typing in Internet addresses! Just download the software and go! You will be shocked and amazed by the secrets that can be discovered about absolutely everyone! Find out the secrets they don't want you to know! About others, about yourself! LIMITED TIME OFFER -- ORDER TODAY! ONLY $20 (US) You can dowmload the "The Internet DeskTop Spy" software NOW so you can begin discovering all the secrets you ever wanted to know! You can know EVERYTHING about ANYONE with "The Internet DeskTop Spy" software. - Works with all browsers and all versions of AOL - PC Versions available Only! DON'T WAIT TO GET STARTED… It's as easy as 1, 2, 3. ORDER TODAY - While this software is still legal! VISA/MC ONLY STEP 1: Print out the below ORDER FORM STEP 2: Type or Print your order information into the form STEP 3: FAX Your order to us. FAX to:415-704-3071 (Order with confidence. This is a secure fax area. Only our qualified sales team will have access to your order information) *************************************************************************************************************************** "The Internet DeskTop Spy" ORDER FORM - PLEASE WRITE CLEARLY Name: ________________________________ Address: ________________________________ City, State, ZIP: ________________________________ Country: ______________ (International Orders) Phone Number: ______________ (In case we can't make out your order) TOTAL COST OF ORDER IS $20.00 ALL ORDERS WILL BE PROCESSED WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIPT METHOD OF PAYMENT – ID Code AXXX [ ]Visa [ ]MasterCard Credit Card #: __________________________________ Exp Date: _______________ Signature: ____________________________ (Required) E-Mail Address: ____________________________ *(VERY IMPORTANT-PRINT CLEARLY!!) -NOTES: - This program will not work on Windows 3.11 and older. - Sorry, Mac versions not yet available. - DISCLAIMER - The seller of this powerful software resource will not be held responsible for how the purchaser chooses to use its resources. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 16 22:12:43 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA09458 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:12:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000316220006-2965-10 ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:00:06 -0500 Received: from town.nagao.kagawa.jp (nagao1.town.nagao.kagawa.jp [210.163.176.162]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000316215959-38022-8 ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:00:00 -0500 Received: from lenders.connectfree.co.uk by town.nagao.kagawa.jp (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAB25622; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:53:32 +0900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:00:04 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:51:24 -0800 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: mailman@lenders.connectfree.co.uk To: smart-consumer@yourisp.com Subject: Ftp-WG: ADV: Refinance your home. ALL CREDIT ACCEPTED! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hit reply to be removed. Homeowners, let the power of the internet work for you. Fill in our quick loan request form and you will get competitive mortgage quotes from 3 of over 150 lenders signed up for our service. Your information is transmitted instantly and automatically to three lenders that meet YOUR requirements. When lenders compete you win. Cash Out Refi's No Equity Loans No Income Verification Bad Credit - OK Loans for any reason Lenders are standing by, ready to approve your loan today! They will contact you, often minutes after filling in the form. Visit this site: http://3518593971/bin/redirector.cgi?http://3509084637/loans/?TS0315 -Save Time -Save Money -Save Aggravation There is NEVER any fee to consumers for using this service. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Copyright © 1999, 2000 The Home Loan Source 4654 E Ave. S, Suite B PMB-104 Palmdale, CA 93552 email: compare-rates@lenders.connectfree.co.uk _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Mar 17 19:29:17 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA17131 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000317192147-43161-10 ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:21:47 -0500 Received: from kadd.co.kr (210.102.57.1 [210.102.57.1]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000317192142-11877-8 ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:21:43 -0500 Message-Id: <20000317192142-11877-8@mail.hethmon.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:21:44 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 17 Mar 00 07:59:02 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Search-Magic@mx.connectfree.co.uk To: Magic@yahoo.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Search Engine Secrets Discovered "Amazing Search Engine Secrets Discovered By A Computer Illiterate Man in Massachusetts Can Practically Hand You the Top Search Engine Positions...And Add 1,550 Hits a Day to Web Site Overnight!" Dear Friend, Remember the first time you built a web site. You stayed up until the early morning working it out so that it would be just perfect. Then, you were finally done and you sat back and thought, "The World is Good." After that, you've dreamed of all the visitors your site would have, how they would all see your ad and buy your product. Then it hit you, like a ton of bricks....How was anyone going to find your web site? You thought about it for a while and eventually thought you had the answer....submit your site to the search engines. But after you submitted your site you checked it out and couldn't find it. So you waited a few days.....and still nothing You couldn't even find your site if you looked up your own name!!! Then, you got discouraged....after all that hard work NOTHING?!?!? And this is where most people give up..... BUT You Don't Have To... You can achieve top 20 positioning for your web site...and the tens of thousands of hits which come with it...if you have the "Right" information available to you. For Example, did you know: * Infoseek, Alta Vista, and HotBot ban web sites which break their rules (many of the 'insider' techniques most experts recommend will get you banned faster than you could imagine). * Many search engines limit the number of pages you can submit from your domain (some only allow you to submit one page for best results), although we can show you a technique we use to get hundreds of our pages listed. * Yahoo only lists about 1% of the web in their actual directory. To even get your page listed, you may have to use the "backdoor". * Using a so-called search engine submission software that submits your site to 1,000 or more search engines could actually get your page deleted from the major search engines. * 95% of Internet traffic originates at one of the 10 major search engines...If you're not listed, you might as well not even have a web site! * Choosing the most effective 'keywords' is one of the major keys to a successful web site submission...Pick the right ones and your web site will look like Grand Central Station during rush hour! It has taken us over 2 years to learn how to consistently and without fail place any type of web site in the top 20 of the major search engines. Normally, we charge $500 per keyword that you want a top ranking on (plus a monthly fee of $150 for keeping that rank), but we have found we just don't have enough time for all of the clients that desperately need our services... So, we have produced a "Search Engine Magic" interactive CD-ROM that will show you step by step how to create pages which storm the search engines and lay hold to the precious Top 20 positions that millions of people are trying to reach. The Search Engine Magic CD-ROM consists of 21 interactive video and audio lessons that will run on any IBM compatible computer showing you the exact step-by-step process we use to traffic thousands of visitors to our web sites every single day. You will learn: * Three Different Methods We Use to Pick the Best Traffic Producing Keywords for any web site...and how you can have a list of hundreds of popular keywords in only a few minutes. * How Quick and Easy it is to Create 'Doorway' and 'Hallway' pages for the search engines so that you could possibly have thousands of different pages on your domain all pulling in visitors for your site 24 hours a day 7 days a week. * The Secret Weapon that gives you an "Unfair Advantage" over your competition...and virtually assures you will reach the top positions (don't let your competitors hear about this one first or you will be in trouble). * How to Submit Your Pages to the Search Engines and assure that every single one of them gets listed. (if you listen to one of those amateurs tell you how to list your site, you may just get banned for life). * How to Use Pay-Per-Click search engines to receive over 10,000 visitors for only $100 * The Infamous Yahoo backdoor...You can get listed and we will show you the quickest and easiest method for doing so! * And much, much more... Even Better, You'll Get the Same Results For A Fraction of What Everyone Else Had to Pay! Listen: A lot of people all over the world are gonna be furious with me for sharing these "Insider Secrets" with you...especially since you won't be paying even part of what they had to shell out for one top positioning page! That's just too bad. It's been a secret for too long. So, let me tell you what the deal is.... Contact us today using the below Risk-Free Response Form and you can have all of our secrets for only $139.00. This price wouldn't even buy you 10 minutes of our time at our regular submission fees, but you can own the top search engine positions for less than the cost of a few classified ads! You will be learning everything we know about top positioning! That, my friend, is the bargain of a lifetime for a serious Internet marketer like yourself. What’s more, the money is actually irrelevant, because... You Also Get a 90 Day No-Risk 100% Money-Back Guarantee! Here's how it works. Order your personal copy of this CD-ROM, and use it like you own it. If...For any reason or no reason at all, you aren't completely satisfied after 90 days (by which I had over 47 Top 20 positions for my own web site), just send the CD-ROM back in any condition, and I personally guarantee you to get a complete refund of your purchase price. No questions asked. No problems or forms to fill out. No problems at all. PLUS, You Will Also Receive What is Considered to be by most experts as the "Ultimate Bonus!" For the first 50 people who fill out the below response form and send it in, you will also receive UNLIMITED REPRINT AND REPRODUCTION RIGHTS to this CD-ROM for LIFE! I am not going to allow this CD-ROM to become like many of those over-advertised products you see out there, so only the first 50 will receive these rights. This means that you will be able to use this exact same sales letter, copy the CD-ROM yourself, and sell it For $139.00 a copy, one sell will have breaking even. Sell two copies and you will be in profit.This isn't even counting what the CD-ROM package will do for you! Since only 50 people are going to have these rights... you must take action today! Yours in Success, Michael Burgess To rush order this "Search Engine Magic CD-ROM" simply fill out the order form below and fax it to our 24 hour order line at: FAX ORDER LINE: 1 (212) 504-8032 Regular Mail to: Financial Systems P.O. Box 301 Orange, Ma 01364 ORDER FORM -------------------------------------------------------- Please send to: Your Name: _____________________________________________ Your Address: __________________________________________ Your City: _____________________________________________ State / Zip: ___________________________________________ Your Country: __________________________________________ Phone #: _______________________________________________ (For problems with your order only. No salesmen will call.) Email Address: ___________________________________________ We Accept Checks or Money Orders along with all Major Credit Cards including Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover. (NOTE - We only ship to the address listed on the credit card) (Please Fill Out Below Section and Make sure that the above name and address are listed as it appears on the card) for $144 ($139 + 5.00 Shipping) Credit Card Number:________________________________ Expiration Date:___________________________ Signature:_________________________ Date:____________________ * Please check one of the following payment options: [ ] I am faxing a check (Do not send original, we will make a draft from the faxed check) [ ] I am faxing or mailing my credit card number. (Note your card will be charged for $144.00 and we only ship to the address on the card) [ ] I am enclosing a check or money order for $144.00! Note - If ordering outside continental US, please add $5 to S&H P.S. If you send in your order and you are not one of the first 50 to receive the Reprint and Reproduction Rights, I will notify you immediately and give you the opportunity to cancel your order. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ If you have received this message in error and would like to be removed from future mailings, please reply with the word remove in the subject. x _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sat Mar 18 08:07:45 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA05470 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:07:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (w3.hethmon.com [208.147.156.7]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000318080102-59719-9 ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:02 -0500 Received: from galadriel.alyon.asso.fr (galadriel.alyon.asso.fr [62.8.2.71]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000318080100-23827-8 ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:00 -0500 Received: from max1-101.losangeles.corecomm.net by galadriel.alyon.asso.fr (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA09899; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:48:31 +0100 Message-Id: <1E62S20qd9> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:01:01 -0500 X-OldDate: 18 Mar 00 4:20:09 AM Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: klklhkr@yahoo.com To: gsggsfg@yahoo.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Important notice CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER Build Your Own Cable De-scrambler for less than $17. There are only 7 Simple steps to follow, and all the parts (parts number list provided) can be easily found at your local electronics store. We Send You: ¨ E-Z To follow Assembly Instructions. ¨ E-Z To read Original Drawings. ¨ The Parts List. Frequently Asked Questions--CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER Q: Will the de-scrambler work on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod and Satellite systems? A: The answer is YES. Q: Do I need a converter box? A: This plan works with or without a converter box. Specific Instructions are included in the plan for each. Q: Can the de-scrambler be detected? A: No, the signal de-scrambles right at the box and does not Move back thorough the line. Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system, television or VCR? A: The answer is no. Q: Does this work everywhere across the country? A: Yes, every where in the USA plus England, Brazil, and Other countries. Q: When I order, when will I get my stuff? A: We mail out all orders within 24 hours of receiving it. To get the instruction plans, the easy to follow diagram, and parts list. Just send $17, (Cash, Check or Money Order.) and you will receive your Cable De-scrambler Plans right away. You get the complete package all for just $17 (Shipping and Handling included) Send your orders to: SMA 1300 N. Cahuenga BLVD #292 Hollywood, CA 90028 PRINT YOUR: NAME______________________________________________ ADDRESS___________________________________________ CITY/STATE/ZIP____________________________________ PHONE NUMBER______________________________________ E-MAIL ADDRESS____________________________________ SMA is a member with the Better Business Bureau. Thank you for your interest. (DISCLAIMER pleases notes: This information is being provided for educational purposes only. The information itself is legal, while the usage of such information may be illegal. We do not advocate unauthorized use or theft of cable services. If in doubt check your local laws and act accordingly.) From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Mar 22 19:45:48 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA19720 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000322194502-61208-10 ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:45:02 -0500 Received: from alpha.hyowon.co.kr (203.233.24.31 [203.233.24.31]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000322194458-32678-9 ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:44:59 -0500 Message-Id: <20000322194458-32678-9@mail.hethmon.com> Received: from alpha.hyowon.co.kr (ip5.tucson3.az.pub-ip.PSI.NET [38.29.63.5]) by alpha.hyowon.co.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id HA0XTV1A; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:35:44 +0900 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:45:00 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 22 Mar 00 07:55:48 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: ResortHere@AllThePlanet.com To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Personal Travel Service If you or any associates plan on traveling to the Orlando, Florida area in the next 12 months, you've got to check out this great Resort. It's located just minutes away from all the major tourist attractions. The price is reasonable - five days/four nights for $299.90 per person and a group of six for $899.99...receive a variety of complimentary services. For details, reply with "yes" in the subject line. To:TheResort@traveltime.4mg.com For no information, send "no" in the subject line. To: Staff@traveltime.4mg.com From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 23 09:00:54 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA13764 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:00:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323085734-33438-9 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:57:34 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.30.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323085731-7382-8 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:57:32 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24757 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 23 Mar 00 08:51:54 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 23 Mar 00 08:51:43 -0500 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <38D9DB4D.18633.5672B47C@localhost> In-reply-to: <20000322194458-32678-9@mail.hethmon.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:57:32 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:51:38 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Spam on this list, can it be moderated? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've seen about 5 spam messages in 7 days from this list. I guess it's not moderated. Can this list be made moderated, or should I just shut up and take it? Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 23 09:09:38 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA16488 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:09:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323090559-16684-10 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:05:59 -0500 Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323090557-54108-8 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:05:57 -0500 Received: from magnus (aus-as4-182.io.com [208.2.105.182]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27044 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:02:56 -0600 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000323080135.00a91d20@mail.io.com> X-Sender: alun@mail.io.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 In-Reply-To: <38D9DB4D.18633.5672B47C@localhost> References: <20000322194458-32678-9@mail.hethmon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:05:57 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:03:27 -0600 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Alun Jones To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Spam on this list, can it be moderated? At 07:57 AM 3/23/2000 , you wrote: >I've seen about 5 spam messages in 7 days from this list. > >I guess it's not moderated. Can this list be made moderated, or should I >just shut up and take it? This has been discussed before, and basically because it's an IETF working group mailing list, it's not allowed to be moderated, censored, or pre-edited in any way. Anyone must be allowed to post, even if they don't read the list. I think that the IETF could remove that latter consideration, and require that posters be members of the mailing list (otherwise they ask questions that have been previously answered) before they post, but that's a matter, presumably, for another forum. Alun. ~~~~ -- Texas Imperial Software | Try WFTPD, the Windows FTP Server. Find us 1602 Harvest Moon Place | at web site http://www.wftpd.com or email Cedar Park TX 78613 | us at alun@texis.com. VISA / MC accepted. Fax +1 (512) 378 3246 | NT-based ISPs, be sure to read details of Phone +1 (512) 378 3246 | WFTPD Pro, NT service version - $100. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 23 09:34:29 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA25006 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:34:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323092803-9089-9 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:28:03 -0500 Received: from landfield.com (ns.landfield.com [208.196.145.2]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323092801-17806-8 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:28:02 -0500 Received: (from kent@localhost) by landfield.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28702 for ftp-wg@hethmon.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:24:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200003231424.IAA28702@landfield.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000323080135.00a91d20@mail.io.com> from "Alun Jones" at Mar 23, 2000 09:05:57 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:28:02 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:24:40 -0600 (CST) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Kent Landfield To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Spam on this list, can it be moderated? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # At 07:57 AM 3/23/2000 , you wrote: # >I've seen about 5 spam messages in 7 days from this list. # > # >I guess it's not moderated. Can this list be made moderated, or should I # >just shut up and take it? # # This has been discussed before, and basically because it's an IETF working # group mailing list, it's not allowed to be moderated, censored, or # pre-edited in any way. Anyone must be allowed to post, even if they don't # read the list. I think that the IETF could remove that latter # consideration, and require that posters be members of the mailing list # (otherwise they ask questions that have been previously answered) before # they post, but that's a matter, presumably, for another forum. This is not accurate. I run the UseFor mailing list from landfield.com and I have discussed this with Keith Moore of the IETF. Here is the exchange. Keith Moore responds: # > I use majordomo here and have certain commands restricted. # > # > subscribe_policy = open+confirm # > which_access = list # > who_access = closed # > # > Everything else is open but as stated earlier, I have postings by # > non-listmembers forwarded for approval for spam prevention. I have # > the who command closed since I don't want spammers harvesting the # > lists. See any problems there ? # # if I understand this, it looks okay to me. in particular, screening # of postings from non-members is fine as long as the postings are # reviewed promptly, and as long as the mechanism is only used to # filter things that are clearly out of scope. and there's no # requirement to have the who command open. I too am tired of the spam on the ftp-wg list... sigh... -- Kent Landfield Phone: 1-817-545-2502 Email: kent@landfield.com http://www.landfield.com/ Email: kent@nfr.net http://www.nfr.net/ Search the Usenet FAQ Archive at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ Search the RFC/FYI/STD/BCP Archive at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Mar 23 10:04:29 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA06367 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323095819-56855-9 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:58:19 -0500 Received: from frantic.bsdi.com (frantic.weston.BSDI.COM [209.173.194.254]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000323095817-27954-8 ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:58:17 -0500 Received: (from dab@localhost) by frantic.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA18345 for ftp-wg@hethmon.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:54:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200003231454.IAA18345@frantic.bsdi.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:58:18 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:54:25 -0600 (CST) Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: David Borman To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Spam on this list, can it be moderated? > From: Alun Jones > To: FTPEXT Working Group > Subject: Ftp-WG: Spam on this list, can it be moderated? > > At 07:57 AM 3/23/2000 , you wrote: > >I've seen about 5 spam messages in 7 days from this list. > > > >I guess it's not moderated. Can this list be made moderated, or should I > >just shut up and take it? > > This has been discussed before, and basically because it's an IETF working > group mailing list, it's not allowed to be moderated, censored, or > pre-edited in any way. Anyone must be allowed to post, even if they don't > read the list. I think that the IETF could remove that latter > consideration, and require that posters be members of the mailing list > (otherwise they ask questions that have been previously answered) before > they post, but that's a matter, presumably, for another forum. Another fix would be to just change the name of the list. I did that for the telnet mailing list. The old subscription address continues to work, and if people subscribe to the old address, they get informed of the new address for the list. That got rid of all the spam on the telnet mailing list. -David Borman, dab@bsdi.com From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sat Mar 25 15:07:10 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA21076 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:07:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000325150420-518-9 ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:04:20 -0500 Received: from icx.net (mailhub.icx.net [206.96.250.12]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000325145918-36864-8 ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:04:18 -0500 Received: from gw.hibernian.ie (gw.hibernian.ie [195.7.37.66]) by icx.net (IDG-2.7/1.3nr) with ESMTP id OAA23164 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by gw.hibernian.ie; id UAA09005; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 20:08:17 GMT Received: from ppp-218.tnt-1.hou.smartworld.net(64.38.18.218) by gw.hibernian.ie via smap (V4.2) id xmahk7685; Sat, 25 Mar 00 20:07:42 GMT Message-ID: <7H7IjB08Z3rB> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:04:19 -0500 X-OldDate: 25 Mar 00 1:38:13 PM Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: dp7f3eJ6d@muppet.bt.co.uk Subject: Ftp-WG: LOOKING FOR GEMS ! It Is So Simple And Easy To Earn $2,000 - $5,000 Per Week... We're searching for 10 quality individuals with integrity and the work ethic necessary to generate a positive cash-flow for themselves of $2,000 - $5,000 per week, and to increase that to over $20,000 per month, in as little as four to six months. And you know what ? If you really have a burning desire and a commitment to yourself to succeed, we "GUARANTEE" that you will achieve this explosive income ! Ask yourself these easy questions: 1) Do you have a burning desire to take complete personal and financial control of your life and earn an extraordinary income by helping others to do the same? 2) Are you looking for a strong and legitimate home-based business opportunity, that is not a chain-letter scheme or multi-level marketing (MLM) ? 3) Can you read a short script to our qualified leads, and then turn the interested prospects over to our electronic sales medium ? (you are not required to do any selling.) If the answer is "YES" to ANY of these questions and you have the self-discipline to ignore the TV and other distractions for a few hours per day, then this is the opportunity for you to earn an extraordinary income and learn how to have that income grow "lightning-fast" ! Under our guidance and support you can build a highly successful business without having to attend meetings or sell people things they don't want or need. CALL NOW for our TOLL FREE, Pre-Recorded Message (800) 742-6549 Ext 3530 We market a real product, that is high in demand and pays incredible commissions directly to you ($1,000.00 minimum) just for making the initial contacts. With our turn-key lead generation systems you will always talk to people who actually WANT to talk with you. So call now ! The call is FREE and you have absolutely nothing to lose. There is "No Risk" involved, and no obligation whatsoever. You may be qualified to earn thousands of extra dollars per month ! CALL NOW TOLL FREE (800) 742-6549 Ext 3530 This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity ! Get involved now ! Don't wait for this one to go by and then regret it later. This could be the most fascinating and profitable business of your life ! Remember, you have absolutely nothing to loose and EVERYTHING to gain. PS - Serious inquiries only, please to be removed from this list mailto:sms@berlinoffice.com?subject=remove From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sun Mar 26 08:11:19 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA26116 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000326081051-50975-10 ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:10:51 -0500 Received: from cjf.gob.mx (mail.cjf.gob.mx [200.38.227.72]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000326081045-22733-8 ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:10:46 -0500 Received: from 200.38.227.72 by cjf.gob.mx (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA20340; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:10:36 -0600 Message-Id: <200003261310.HAA20340@cjf.gob.mx> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:10:48 -0500 X-OldDate: Sun, 26 Mar 00 05:12:28 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Search-Magic@mx.connectfree.co.uk To: Magic@yahoo.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Search Engine Secrets Discovered "Amazing Search Engine Secrets Discovered By A Computer Illiterate Man in Massachusetts Can Practically Hand You the Top Search Engine Positions...And Add 1,550 Hits a Day to Web Site Overnight!" Dear Friend, Remember the first time you built a web site. You stayed up until the early morning working it out so that it would be just perfect. Then, you were finally done and you sat back and thought, "The World is Good." After that, you've dreamed of all the visitors your site would have, how they would all see your ad and buy your product. Then it hit you, like a ton of bricks....How was anyone going to find your web site? You thought about it for a while and eventually thought you had the answer....submit your site to the search engines. But after you submitted your site you checked it out and couldn't find it. So you waited a few days.....and still nothing You couldn't even find your site if you looked up your own name!!! Then, you got discouraged....after all that hard work NOTHING?!?!? And this is where most people give up..... BUT You Don't Have To... You can achieve top 20 positioning for your web site...and the tens of thousands of hits which come with it...if you have the "Right" information available to you. For Example, did you know: * Infoseek, Alta Vista, and HotBot ban web sites which break their rules (many of the 'insider' techniques most experts recommend will get you banned faster than you could imagine). * Many search engines limit the number of pages you can submit from your domain (some only allow you to submit one page for best results), although we can show you a technique we use to get hundreds of our pages listed. * Yahoo only lists about 1% of the web in their actual directory. To even get your page listed, you may have to use the "backdoor". * Using a so-called search engine submission software that submits your site to 1,000 or more search engines could actually get your page deleted from the major search engines. * 95% of Internet traffic originates at one of the 10 major search engines...If you're not listed, you might as well not even have a web site! * Choosing the most effective 'keywords' is one of the major keys to a successful web site submission...Pick the right ones and your web site will look like Grand Central Station during rush hour! It has taken us over 2 years to learn how to consistently and without fail place any type of web site in the top 20 of the major search engines. Normally, we charge $500 per keyword that you want a top ranking on (plus a monthly fee of $150 for keeping that rank), but we have found we just don't have enough time for all of the clients that desperately need our services... So, we have produced a "Search Engine Magic" interactive CD-ROM that will show you step by step how to create pages which storm the search engines and lay hold to the precious Top 20 positions that millions of people are trying to reach. The Search Engine Magic CD-ROM consists of 21 interactive video and audio lessons that will run on any IBM compatible computer showing you the exact step-by-step process we use to traffic thousands of visitors to our web sites every single day. You will learn: * Three Different Methods We Use to Pick the Best Traffic Producing Keywords for any web site...and how you can have a list of hundreds of popular keywords in only a few minutes. * How Quick and Easy it is to Create 'Doorway' and 'Hallway' pages for the search engines so that you could possibly have thousands of different pages on your domain all pulling in visitors for your site 24 hours a day 7 days a week. * The Secret Weapon that gives you an "Unfair Advantage" over your competition...and virtually assures you will reach the top positions (don't let your competitors hear about this one first or you will be in trouble). * How to Submit Your Pages to the Search Engines and assure that every single one of them gets listed. (if you listen to one of those amateurs tell you how to list your site, you may just get banned for life). * How to Use Pay-Per-Click search engines to receive over 10,000 visitors for only $100 * The Infamous Yahoo backdoor...You can get listed and we will show you the quickest and easiest method for doing so! * And much, much more... Even Better, You'll Get the Same Results For A Fraction of What Everyone Else Had to Pay! Listen: A lot of people all over the world are gonna be furious with me for sharing these "Insider Secrets" with you...especially since you won't be paying even part of what they had to shell out for one top positioning page! That's just too bad. It's been a secret for too long. So, let me tell you what the deal is.... Contact us today using the below Risk-Free Response Form and you can have all of our secrets for only $139.00. This price wouldn't even buy you 10 minutes of our time at our regular submission fees, but you can own the top search engine positions for less than the cost of a few classified ads! You will be learning everything we know about top positioning! That, my friend, is the bargain of a lifetime for a serious Internet marketer like yourself. What’s more, the money is actually irrelevant, because... You Also Get a 90 Day No-Risk 100% Money-Back Guarantee! Here's how it works. Order your personal copy of this CD-ROM, and use it like you own it. If...For any reason or no reason at all, you aren't completely satisfied after 90 days (by which I had over 47 Top 20 positions for my own web site), just send the CD-ROM back in any condition, and I personally guarantee you to get a complete refund of your purchase price. No questions asked. No problems or forms to fill out. No problems at all. PLUS, You Will Also Receive What is Considered to be by most experts as the "Ultimate Bonus!" For the first 50 people who fill out the below response form and send it in, you will also receive UNLIMITED REPRINT AND REPRODUCTION RIGHTS to this CD-ROM for LIFE! I am not going to allow this CD-ROM to become like many of those over-advertised products you see out there, so only the first 50 will receive these rights. This means that you will be able to use this exact same sales letter, copy the CD-ROM yourself, and sell it For $139.00 a copy, one sell will have breaking even. Sell two copies and you will be in profit.This isn't even counting what the CD-ROM package will do for you! Since only 50 people are going to have these rights... you must take action today! Yours in Success, Michael Burgess To rush order this "Search Engine Magic CD-ROM" simply fill out the order form below and fax it to our 24 hour order line at: FAX ORDER LINE: 1 (212) 504-8032 Regular Mail to: Financial Systems P.O. Box 301 Orange, Ma 01364 ORDER FORM -------------------------------------------------------- Please send to: Your Name: _____________________________________________ Your Address: __________________________________________ Your City: _____________________________________________ State / Zip: ___________________________________________ Your Country: __________________________________________ Phone #: _______________________________________________ (For problems with your order only. No salesmen will call.) Email Address: ___________________________________________ We Accept Checks or Money Orders along with all Major Credit Cards including Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover. (NOTE - We only ship to the address listed on the credit card) (Please Fill Out Below Section and Make sure that the above name and address are listed as it appears on the card) for $144 ($139 + 5.00 Shipping) Credit Card Number:________________________________ Expiration Date:___________________________ Signature:_________________________ Date:____________________ * Please check one of the following payment options: [ ] I am faxing a check (Do not send original, we will make a draft from the faxed check) [ ] I am faxing or mailing my credit card number. (Note your card will be charged for $144.00 and we only ship to the address on the card) [ ] I am enclosing a check or money order for $144.00! Note - If ordering outside continental US, please add $5 to S&H P.S. If you send in your order and you are not one of the first 50 to receive the Reprint and Reproduction Rights, I will notify you immediately and give you the opportunity to cancel your order. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ If you have received this message in error and would like to be removed from future mailings, please reply with the word remove in the subject. x _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Tue Mar 28 15:28:06 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA26028 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:28:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000328152727-6763-9 ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:27:27 -0500 Received: from e22.nc.us.ibm.com (e22.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.228]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000328152724-5121-8 ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:27:25 -0500 Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e22.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26608 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:06:02 -0600 Received: from d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com (d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.228.36]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with SMTP id PAA27834 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:24:22 -0500 Received: by d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 852568B0.007017A9 ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:24:20 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS Message-ID: <852568B0.00701556.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:27:25 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:24:13 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: jcwolf@us.ibm.com To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: ftp server and client that support RFC 2640 Seems to me a similar question was asked recently by Brad with limited success, but here goes. I am looking for both a client and server ftp that supports RFC 2640 (UTF-8 encoding and LANG command). I need to interoperability test my own ftp client and server. If you know of a platform/release that supports RFC 2640, please append. If you are trying to sell your RFC 2640 compliant implementation, we'll probably buy one just for our testing. Thanks! Janet C. Wolf From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Mar 29 09:30:23 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA21296 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:30:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000329092805-22646-9 ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:28:05 -0500 Received: from alpha.ipswitch.com (alpha.ipswitch.com [216.104.149.100]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000329092803-59587-8 ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:28:03 -0500 Received: from wks222 [216.104.149.222] by alpha.ipswitch.com (SMTPD32-6.00) id A43A4A0152; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:33:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bf998a$8b8f63b0$de9568d8@wks222.augusta.ipswitch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <852568B0.00701556.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> Importance: Normal Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:28:03 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:24:51 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Mark Symons" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: ftp server and client that support RFC 2640 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am looking for both a client and server ftp that supports > RFC 2640 (UTF-8 encoding and LANG command). I need to > interoperability test my own ftp client and server. If you > know of a platform/release that supports RFC 2640, please append. > If you are trying to sell your RFC 2640 compliant implementation, > we'll probably buy one just for our testing. >From WS_FTP Server v1.05 Release Notes: # Added full UTF8 support. Since some browsers have a problem # with UTF8, the only time UTF8 encoding is used is when the # languages is other than EN or if "SITE UTF8" has been sent. # UTF8 decoding is always supported. Currently, the only language listed in the FEAT response in EN. See: http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP-Server/index.html Hope this helps Mark Symons Ipswitch, Inc Augusta GA From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Mar 31 19:41:44 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA19969 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:41:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.6]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000331194103-17196-8 ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:41:03 -0500 Received: from zeta.fyrisskolan.uppsala.se (mail.Fyrisskolan.Uppsala.SE [192.176.237.79]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20000331194059-63020-8 ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:41:00 -0500 Received: from max1-97.losangeles.corecomm.net by zeta.fyrisskolan.uppsala.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id GVBJADWJ; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 00:36:48 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:41:01 -0500 X-OldDate: 01 Apr 00 6:30:17 AM Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: 8dS766i5b@fgfghh.com To: hiujkljklj Subject: Ftp-WG: Investor and Stock Alert, this is the one please read NEWS CONFIRMED FOR FRIDAY WILL SKYROCKET THIS .90 STOCK TO $4 OR HIGHER BY MONDAY!!!! JBRD the great opportunity to buy on the dip, the news will be on Friday [JBRD] xuligan [192.150.150.253] max2000rnd@aol.com JBRD-BUY OUT BY MAJOR RECORD GIANT AT $3.60 PER SHARE!! [JBRD] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Just caught the heavy Stock chat room Alert of rumours by 2 "insiders" of JBRD buyout by Record Giant at $3.60 per share. It is not the $5 that everyone was hoping for, but $3.60 for a $1 investment is not bad. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Just copied from BOBZ and a lot of this information on Yahoo Stock chat as well!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- JBRD flying!!!! Record Initial Ship for J-Bird Records Rockapella 2 Enters North American Marketplace Representing J-Bird Records' Most Successful Initial Shipment of CDs to the Retail Community WILTON, Conn., Mar 28, 2000 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Rockapella 2 enters retail brick and mortar stores today as J-Bird Music Group's (OTC Bulletin Board: JBRD) most successful initial shipment of CDs to the retail community to date. The phenomenal new CD will be represented in stores such as Tower, Virgin, Musicland, and Wherehouse, among others. The album, released nationwide today, features a remake of the chart topping Squeeze classic "Tempted" which is already gaining success for J-Bird Records as the number 3 most added on the fmqb AC (adult contemporary) chart. Radio has also responded with 10 adds at Top 40 radio. "With this highly anticipated brand new CD Rockapella is poised to take their place on the charts of mainstream pop music," said Jay Barbieri President & CEO of J-Bird Music Group. "Brand new material combined with the enormous amount of publicity and media scheduled will ensure that Rockapella 2 reaches new sales heights for both the group and the company". If you have not seen Rockapella at any of their sold out live performances, you may be familiar with them performing the Folgers anthem "Rockin' Morning" and the Folgers Christmas jingle "Holiday Wake-Up" both of which are included on the new CD courtesy of the Procter & Gamble Company. J-Bird Music Group, Ltd., the first World Wide Web recording label, is a completely integrated, independent music company utilizing a business model developed to generate sustained profitability in the Internet era. Rockapella 2 will be distributed by The Navarre Corporation (Nasdaq: NAVR) and available at the J-Bird web site, http://www.jbirdrecords.com . J-Bird Records was established as the First WWW Recording Label in 1996 by music industry executive and visionary Jay Barbieri. The label successfully combines online and traditional marketing and distribution for its roster of over 300 artists. SOURCE J-Bird Music Group CONTACT: Asa Fish of J-Bird Records 203 761-9393, ext. 207, or afish@jbirdrecords.com