From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sun Oct 1 04:30:49 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id EAA07092 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 04:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001001033059-10585-11 ; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 03:30:59 -0500 Received: from igclickmail02.igclick.net (213.1.245.202 [213.1.245.202]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001001033054-46650-8 ; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 03:30:55 -0500 Message-Id: <20001001033054-46650-8@mail.hethmon.com> Received: from MIGGY ([213.120.237.244]) by igclickmail02.igclick.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id T6Z7KJLJ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:23:36 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 03:30:56 -0500 X-OldDate: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:24:21 +0100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Spider" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: WHY SO MUCH SMART MONEY IS SO HIGH ON READ-RITE ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam ---------- > From: HotStock-@earth.com > To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com > Subject: Ftp-WG: WHY SO MUCH SMART MONEY IS SO HIGH ON READ-RITE ! > Date: 29 September 2000 19:34 > > > > > > > > > > Link to article below: > > http://www.thestreet.com/comment/herbonthestreet/1096812.html > > > Commentary: Herb on TheStreet.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Why So Much Smart Money Is So High on Read-Rite > By Herb Greenberg > Senior Columnist > 9/26/00 6:30 AM ET > > Read-Rite(symbol= RDRT) > > Feeling benevolent, so let's get bullish: > > Reading right: As I've written in RealMoney.com's Columnist Conversation, the > one stock quite a few of my smartest sources are yapping about is Read-Rite > (RDRT:Nasdaq - news - boards), the (until very recently) long-forgotten maker of > heads for disk drives. The only reason I take it seriously is because of the variety of > investors in the stock (from seasoned and savvy traders to some of the > most-dogged researchers I know). > > Most of the sizzle surrounding the company in recent weeks has been tied to the > launch of a new division called Scion Photonics, which is developing optical > wafers for use in the fiber-optic networks, and which was initially funded with $25 > mil from Tyco Ventures and Roger McNamee's Integral Capital, which got a > quarter of the company in return. > > But that's only part of the story: > > According to Scott Turkel of TCM Partners, who has had his share of hits and > misses in this column, and who also happens to be the only on-the-record holder > among my sources, the company without Scion is worth about where it trades > today, $10.50, or around 1 times sales. "They're completely sold out in their core > business in the fourth quarter," he says, "and for the first time, they have pricing > power." (One reason is that disk drives are no longer sold mostly for PCs; they've > become a staple in storage networks.) > > Scion, meanwhile, is currently valued at around $100 million (based on > Tyco/Integral's 25% stake). "Chump change," says Turkel. That's because the > valuation is without even having a marketable product; the first wafer isn't expected > to hit the market until next year (which, I should point out, is why some skeptics > are, uh, skeptical). > > But another very sharp manager I know, who is often short stocks, said he saw > Read-Rite at several recent conferences, and "I thought the story got better > between Salomon Smith Barney and Banc of America, both on the optics side > and on their base business. They actually showed a slide of the optical wafer > prototype they had made; they said they are sampling product with several > customers. They said, Our customers have said, 'If you can make them, we'll buy > them.' In other words, the move to optical is less theoretical than it was a month > ago." > > What's more, according to this money manger, who is great at spotting nuances, > "They went from saying, 'We'll be break-even cash flow in Q-4 from core > businesses,' to saying, 'We are on allocation and we may actually make money in > Q4' from the core business.' " > > Based on that, Turkel (who first bought the stock when it was $4 not long ago) > thinks he now owns a $10 stock that is worth $25. > > P.S.: Read-Rite recently paid the first installment of interest on a convertible bond > with cash, rather than stock, which was an alternative. (The cash came from the > State of Wisconsin Investment Board, already a large Read-Rite investor.) > Translation to some investors: The only reason the state paid with cash is because > it thinks the stock is going higher. Or, put another way, Wisconsin, which already > owns a 20% stake, wouldn't have sunk in even more cash if it didn't think it would > make a decent return. (Did I really write something that glowing? Must be some > kind of a market top!) > > (Voluntary Disclosure: Position- Long) > > > > Read-Rite CEO gets into growth > By Janet Haney, CBS.MarketWatch.com > Last Update: [Timestamp]NewsWatch > Latest headlines > SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- Read-Rite Chief Executive Officer Alan Lowe waxed positive about the future growth prospects for the magnetic-recording-head supplier. > > Lowe told a crowd of investors and analysts during a presentation at the Banc of America Securities Investment Conference in San Francisco on Thursday that he expects huge unit growth potential for Read-Rite's (RDRT: news, msgs) December quarter, as well as the possibility of profitability. > Lowe added that the company is hiring people as fast as it can for its wafer fabrication facility. > For the September quarter, the CEO said Read-Rite has a "lot of product to ship in the last 10 days of the quarter." > Additionally, Lowe talked about Read-Rite's recent formation of an independent fiber optic company called Scion Photonics which he said hopes to go public. > Scion received funding from Tyco, which will make a presentation at the conference later Thursday. > Janet Haney is a reporter for CBS.MarketWatch.com. > > > > > > > > > > > From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sun Oct 1 08:20:45 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA08289 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 08:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001001072104-61700-10 ; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:21:04 -0500 Received: from fw.hbwhptt.net.cn. (202.103.0.161 [202.103.0.161]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001001072058-33546-8 ; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:21:00 -0500 Received: from 202.103.0.161 by fw.hbwhptt.net.cn. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA23341; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:09:13 -0800 Received: from cabnewstv3@rocketmail.com by cabnewstv3@rocketmail.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA05196 for ; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 03:56:35 -0600 (EST) Message-ID: <> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 07:21:01 -0500 X-OldDate: Sun, 01 Oct 00 03:56:35 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: cabnewstv3@rocketmail.com To: cabnewstv3@rocketmai.com Subject: Ftp-WG: CABLE TV NOTE: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR LEGAL TV DE-SCRAMBLER. IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS INFORMATION PLEASE CLICK DELETE NOW. THANK YOU-- LEGAL CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER Want to watch Sporting Events?--Movies?--Pay-Per-View?? You can assemble from electronic store parts for about $12.00. We Send You: E-Z To follow Assembly Instructions. 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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 4 02:54:19 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id CAA12849 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004015531-307-10 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:55:31 -0500 Received: from modulonet.com.br (dns1.modulonet.com.br [200.197.71.1]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004015522-44688-8 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:55:28 -0500 Received: from finally ([158.252.248.189]) by modulonet.com.br (8.10.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id e949qEK28238; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 07:52:18 -0200 Message-Id: <200010040952.e949qEK28238@modulonet.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_13AD_00000446.00003731" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:55:29 -0500 X-OldDate: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:41:05 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: busy1@kidzmail.com.au To: Subject: Ftp-WG: Open Your Mind To Exciting Opportunities 76 ------=_NextPart_000_13AD_00000446.00003731 Content-Type: text/html; LOOKING FOR GEMS!

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------=_NextPart_000_13AD_00000446.00003731-- From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 4 09:32:00 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA19629 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004083407-58195-19 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:34:08 -0500 Received: from tropical.co.cr (63.160.71.196 [63.160.71.196]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004083403-24630-12 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:34:04 -0500 Received: from tropical.co.cr [63.178.136.109] by tropical.co.cr (SMTPD32-6.00 EVAL) id A06A3A0116; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:05:30 -0600 Received: from tv@yahoo.com by info@excite.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA09654 for ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:31:00 -0600 (EST) Message-ID: <> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:34:05 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 04 Oct 00 09:31:00 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: 63426672@yahoo.com To: cable@yahoo.com Subject: Ftp-WG: cable services > > NOTE: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR LEGAL TV > > DE-SCRAMBLER. 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The descrambler is > > manually controlled--but very easy to use! > > Q: Can you email me the plans? > > A: No the program comes with an easy to follow picture guide. > > Q: Does this work everywhere across the country? > > A: Yes, every where in the USA plus England, > > Brazil, Canada and other countries! > > Q: Is this deal guaranteed? > > A: Yes, if you are unhappy for any reason we will refund your money. > > Q: When I order, when will I get my stuff? > > A: We mail out all orders within 48 hours of receiving them. > > ORDER INFORMATION > > ACT WITHIN THE NEXT 14 DAYS AND RECEIVE TWO FREE BONUS!! > > THE CABLE MANUAL! This manual contains hard to find information your > > cable company does not want you to know. Also receive The RADAR > > JAMMER PLANS! Never get another speeding ticket. Build you own > > radar jammer, this unit will jam police radar so they can't get a reading > on > > your vechicle. Radar jammers are legal in 48 states. 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Less refuse in our Dumps! > > This is the new way of new millenium! > > If you would like to be removed move233@dcemail.com > > > From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 4 17:36:13 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA02351 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004163815-61699-13 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 16:38:15 -0500 Received: from med-02-msg.med.nu.ac.th (med-02-msg.med.nu.ac.th [203.146.170.146]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001004163811-3714-10 ; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 16:38:11 -0500 Message-Id: <20001004163811-3714-10@mail.hethmon.com> Received: from tu-casa (sdn-ar-005azphoep247.dialsprint.net [158.252.129.9]) by med-02-msg.med.nu.ac.th with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id T2HNVB3S; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:34:26 +0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:38:12 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: To: fdjkloy@goypt.au Subject: Ftp-WG: FIND OUT INFO ON ANYONE!! 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TO: K Gaston PO BOX 3042 Gilbert, AZ 85299-3042 (ALL ORDERS MAILED WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIVING THEM) MAKE YOUR CHECK PAYABLE TO: K Gaston (Please Print Clearly Your Name and Address) Name__________________________________________ Address________________________________________ City/State/ZIP___________________________________ E-mail Address__________________________________ SORRY NO MAC VERSION AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME. THIS PROGRAM WILL NOT WORK WITH M/S 3.11 AND OLDER. Copyright © 1998-1999 All Rights Reserved ********************************************************************** All REMOVE requests AUTOMATICALLY honored upon receipt. PLEASE understand that any effort to disrupt, close or block this REMOVE account can only result in difficulties for others wanting to be removed from our mailing list as it will be impossible to take anyone off the list if the remove instruction can not be received. To be removed from our mailing list please send an email to: sjoe@unbounded.com and place remove in the subject Thank you ********************************************************* From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 03:13:56 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA23393 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 03:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005020926-3346-10 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 02:09:26 -0500 Received: from o200.bim.uludag.edu.tr (o200.bim.uludag.edu.tr [193.140.245.122]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005020918-39059-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 02:09:20 -0500 Received: from 0u3b2yj.localhost (pool0282.cvx6-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.159.27]) by o200.bim.uludag.edu.tr (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id KAA01921; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Message-Id: <4l2db.0ykr1h@0u3b2yj.localhost> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:09:23 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 00:06:01 -0800 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: geroge547@usa.net To: @hetibegu.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Lenders COMPETE for your MORTGAGE Loan!!!! -atnebri Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 15:12:45 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA05309 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005141337-28475-9 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:13:37 -0500 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net (ulexite.lion-access.net [212.19.217.2]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005141333-5547-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:13:33 -0500 Received: from Xtreme (1Cust6.tnt22.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.138.6]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id F3592FAF55 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:08:58 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <004601c02eff$f9f84730$01ff1fac@Thuis.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01JUSKVPLWLW003245@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:13:35 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:07:41 +0200 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Joris Dobbelsteen" To: "'FTPEXT Working Group'" Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id PAA05309 I think the list owner should look at this spam and deny access for posting to all the spam senders... The last week I received about 20 mails, where ONLY ONE (1) was useful: "Ftp:WG- Moderation?" (see below). - Joris > -----Original Message----- > From: ftp-wg-owner [mailto:ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com]On Behalf > Of Stephen > Tihor > Sent: Sunday, 01 October 2000 0:25 > To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com > Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? > > > Since the spammers are showing no moderation might this group > add some. > Something like a one post approval requirement would avoid a > lot of problems. > > From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 16:25:07 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA06336 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005152715-8915-10 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:27:15 -0500 Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005152553-43019-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:27:11 -0500 Received: from mail.earthlink.net (1Cust249.tnt3.panama-city.fl.da.uu.net [63.15.220.249]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14066; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marketing12@rocketmail.com by marketing12@rocketmail.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA05644 for ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:53:58 -0600 (EST) Message-ID: <> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:27:13 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 05 Oct 00 13:53:58 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: marketing12@rocketmail.com To: marketing12@rocketmail.com Subject: Ftp-WG: MAKE MONEY NOW with pc HELLO: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR 50 MILLION E-MAIL ADDRESSES ON CD-ROM. 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If we have reached you in error, and you would like to be removed carla7@dcemail.com From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 16:47:18 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA06616 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005154839-30335-9 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:48:39 -0500 Received: from venus.marketlinx.com (63.80.113.44 [63.80.113.44]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005154835-59364-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:48:35 -0500 Received: from marketlinx.com (sambo.marketlinx.com [63.80.113.16]) by venus.marketlinx.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 4JPRYKZ4; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:50:07 -0400 Message-ID: <39DCE81C.A9DEF788@marketlinx.com> Organization: Marketlinx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004601c02eff$f9f84730$01ff1fac@Thuis.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:48:37 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:44:12 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Paul Hethmon To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will try to add some code to the mailing list software to require approval for anyone posting who is not on the subscriber list. Per IETF guidelines, this list has to be open for anyone to post to. Paul Joris Dobbelsteen wrote: > > I think the list owner should look at this spam and deny access for posting to all the spam senders... The last week I received about 20 mails, where ONLY ONE (1) was useful: "Ftp:WG- Moderation?" (see below). > > - Joris > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ftp-wg-owner [mailto:ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com]On Behalf > > Of Stephen > > Tihor > > Sent: Sunday, 01 October 2000 0:25 > > To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com > > Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? > > > > > > Since the spammers are showing no moderation might this group > > add some. > > Something like a one post approval requirement would avoid a > > lot of problems. > > > > From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 16:58:51 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA06771 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005155400-31572-10 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:54:00 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.52.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005155358-24442-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:53:58 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09095 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 5 Oct 00 17:02:40 -0400 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 5 Oct 00 17:02:15 -0400 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <39DCB40E.11924.F553402@localhost> In-reply-to: <39DCE81C.A9DEF788@marketlinx.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v4.0, pre-alpha) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:53:59 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:02:09 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 5 Oct 2000, at 15:48, Paul Hethmon wrote: > I will try to add some code to the mailing list software to require > approval for anyone posting who is not on the subscriber list. Per IETF > guidelines, this list has to be open for anyone to post to. > > Paul I think in this day and age where we've received more spam than substance on this list, it would be acceptable to auto-reply to non- subscribed members and tell them to subscribe first, then post. I'm sure the IETF won't mind that. Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 17:59:19 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA07588 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005165558-35846-9 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:55:58 -0500 Received: from penfold.transactionsite.com (penfold.transactionsite.com [203.14.245.1]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005165553-57378-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:55:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 31738 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2000 21:51:21 -0000 Received: from haym.transactionsite.com (HELO haym) (192.168.1.9) by penfold.transactionsite.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2000 21:51:21 -0000 Message-ID: <002c01c02f15$9e7dff10$0901a8c0@haym.transactionsite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:55:56 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:45:43 +1100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Jan Mikkelsen" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Surely a simple way would be to simply reject messages which do not have the list address in the header. Most of the spam does not, and so would be rejected. The only valid posts which would be rejected are those which were BCC'd to the list, which are rare in any case. This is also less work than moderation. Jan Mikkelsen -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hethmon To: FTPEXT Working Group Date: Friday, 6 October 2000 7:44 Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? >I will try to add some code to the mailing list software to require approval >for anyone posting who is not on the subscriber list. Per IETF guidelines, this >list has to be open for anyone to post to. > >Paul > >Joris Dobbelsteen wrote: >> >> I think the list owner should look at this spam and deny access for posting to all the spam senders... The last week I received about 20 mails, where ONLY ONE (1) was useful: "Ftp:WG- Moderation?" (see below). >> >> - Joris >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: ftp-wg-owner [mailto:ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com]On Behalf >> > Of Stephen >> > Tihor >> > Sent: Sunday, 01 October 2000 0:25 >> > To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com >> > Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? >> > >> > >> > Since the spammers are showing no moderation might this group >> > add some. >> > Something like a one post approval requirement would avoid a >> > lot of problems. >> > >> > > > From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 18:51:35 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA08319 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005174845-12686-9 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:48:45 -0500 Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.64.13.23]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005174841-49118-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:48:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 16238 invoked by uid 50); 5 Oct 2000 22:44:18 -0000 References: <004601c02eff$f9f84730$01ff1fac@Thuis.local> <39DCE81C.A9DEF788@marketlinx.com> In-Reply-To: Paul Hethmon's message of "Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:48:37 -0500" Organization: The Eyrie Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:48:43 -0500 X-OldDate: 05 Oct 2000 15:44:18 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Russ Allbery To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Paul Hethmon writes: > I will try to add some code to the mailing list software to require > approval for anyone posting who is not on the subscriber list. Per IETF > guidelines, this list has to be open for anyone to post to. Surely the right thing to do, given that there's essentially no on-topic discussion on this list any more, is to get the drafts finished and promoted to RFCs and then close down this working group rather than trying to patch the mailing list software? Once the list has been closed down, obviously no one will get spam through it. Is there any major unfinished business? My very strong impression is that this working group has reached the exhausted, "let's just finish" stage that marks the end of the life cycle of an IETF working group. If there are additional FTP issues that people would like to work on, it's always possible to start a new working group focused on those issues. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 5 22:16:03 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA10867 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005211800-25303-10 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:18:01 -0500 Received: from mail.vr.net (mail.vr.net [205.133.13.8]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005211756-10689-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:17:56 -0500 Received: from osiris (osiris.vr.net [205.133.13.9]) (authenticated) by mail.vr.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e962DWh12289 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: <009501c02f3b$9eb1c400$090d85cd@vr.net> References: <004601c02eff$f9f84730$01ff1fac@Thuis.local><39DCE81C.A9DEF788@marketlinx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:17:58 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:17:44 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Gregory A Lundberg" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Surely the right thing to do, given that there's essentially no on-topic > discussion on this list any more, is to get the drafts finished and > promoted to RFCs and then close down this working group rather than trying > to patch the mailing list software? Once the list has been closed down, > obviously no one will get spam through it. > > Is there any major unfinished business? My very strong impression is that > this working group has reached the exhausted, "let's just finish" stage > that marks the end of the life cycle of an IETF working group. If there > are additional FTP issues that people would like to work on, it's always > possible to start a new working group focused on those issues. It sounds like you're saying that, once the issues you're personally interested in are done, there's no reason for the working group any more. My feeling is the FTP specification needs a lot more work, but that the current issues are what should be concentrated on first. MLST is nearing completion. At one time HOST was a part of MLST, but was removed. I've started work on a HOST draft, but it will be some time (a few weeks) until it's ready for draft-00 publication. Personally, I think the time has come for a supercedes-959 RFC. Once both MLST and HOST are published, and assuming FTP-SSL is published, and further rolling in the pertinent changes from FTP-PLUS one would need to comprehend and work out the inconsistencies between some TWELVE (12) RFCs. To my mind, that's far too many and it's time to completely restate the FTP, bringing all these issues into a single document. In addition, over the years, I've come across a number of small issues in 959 (et al) which should be clarified (both internal inconsistencies and things assumed and unstated). As for moderation of the WG mailing list: why bother? The spam level is running only one or two messages a day. At that low level, ISTM it's more work to talk about fixing a non-problem than it is to simply ignore it. If the spam picks up to something like, say, a half-dozen a day, THEN would be the time to fix a problem. As it is, I barely notice the spam through the WG mailing list (in fact, the only reason I do notice it is that the WG mail has its own inbox in my mail system). If a change must be made, the best suggestion I've seen is to require the body To:/Cc: header to include the mailing list address; I cannot see why someone would want to Bcc: the WG mailing list and it would stop most (all?) of the spam through the list. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 00:02:56 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id AAA12940 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005225948-19702-9 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 22:59:48 -0500 Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.64.13.23]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001005225943-56140-8 ; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 22:59:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 17096 invoked by uid 50); 6 Oct 2000 03:55:21 -0000 References: <004601c02eff$f9f84730$01ff1fac@Thuis.local> <39DCE81C.A9DEF788@marketlinx.com> <009501c02f3b$9eb1c400$090d85cd@vr.net> In-Reply-To: "Gregory A Lundberg"'s message of "Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:17:58 -0500" Organization: The Eyrie Message-ID: Lines: 39 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:59:45 -0500 X-OldDate: 05 Oct 2000 20:55:20 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Russ Allbery To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Gregory A Lundberg writes: > It sounds like you're saying that, once the issues you're personally > interested in are done, there's no reason for the working group any > more. No, I'm really not saying that. I'm saying that I see an on-topic message from this mailing list maybe once a month, all of the deadlines for this working group have, I believe, passed, and that in my experience with IETF working groups that means it's time to publish the draft, close the working group, and start new working groups on the topics that people think are still outstanding to get some fresh blood and fresh enthusiasm. It's just my opinion; others may well disagree. > Personally, I think the time has come for a supercedes-959 RFC. Once > both MLST and HOST are published, and assuming FTP-SSL is published, and > further rolling in the pertinent changes from FTP-PLUS one would need to > comprehend and work out the inconsistencies between some TWELVE (12) > RFCs. To my mind, that's far too many and it's time to completely > restate the FTP, bringing all these issues into a single document. In > addition, over the years, I've come across a number of small issues in > 959 (et al) which should be clarified (both internal inconsistencies and > things assumed and unstated). I agree; I think that would be great. But I think one should consider calling that a new working group, writing a charter specifically for that, etc. I could be completely out to lunch here, of course. > As for moderation of the WG mailing list: why bother? The spam level is > running only one or two messages a day. It's just that it's about 60x the on-topic traffic that I think is causing people to notice it. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 06:31:09 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id GAA27500 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006053255-34300-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:32:55 -0500 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com [195.212.29.1]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006053250-5689-8 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:32:51 -0500 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA222374 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:15:05 +0100 Received: from d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06mta07_cs0 [9.180.35.5]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.93) with SMTP id LAA227086 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:28:16 +0100 Received: by d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 80256970.0039827E ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:28:09 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMGB Message-ID: <80256970.003981A3.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:32:52 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:28:04 +0100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: paulfordh@uk.ibm.com To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Gregory A Lundberg wrote: >Personally, I think the time has come for a supercedes-959 RFC. Once both >MLST and HOST are published, and assuming FTP-SSL is published, The current state of FTP-SSL is that I have started to splice it into 2 docs and will be going through the process with the co-authors to issue the non-RFC228 conformant stuff as Infromational. At the same time I am preparing a 2228 compliant draft that will go onto Standards Track - I would very much like this group to sponsor that draft rather than publish it as an individual. This approach is very similar to that taken by https, where there is a 'how it works today' Informational RFC (2818) and a 'how it should work' Standards Track one (2817). I believe that the charter of this group includes this type of work, as well as the HOST stuff etc... and so to wind it up to start another seems a little pointless. As far as the spam level goes - I guess it's an annoying noise to signal ratio, but that's really because of the lack of signal at the moment. Cheers, Paul -- Paul Ford-Hutchinson : eCommerce application security : paulfordh@uk.ibm.com MPT-6, IBM , PO Box 31, Birmingham Rd, Warwick, CV34 5YR +44 (0)1926 462005 From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 08:31:30 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA00228 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006072828-13917-10 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:28:28 -0500 Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006072824-49243-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:28:24 -0500 Received: from magnus.io.com (aus-as4-129.io.com [208.2.105.129]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19675 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:23:57 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001006071630.0176a5b8@mail.io.com> X-Sender: alun@mail.io.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 In-Reply-To: <80256970.003981A3.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:28:26 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:21:48 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Alun Jones To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? At 05:32 AM 10/6/2000, you wrote: >The current state of FTP-SSL is that I have started to splice it into 2 >docs and will be going through the process with the co-authors to issue >the non-RFC228 conformant stuff as Infromational. At the same time I am >preparing a 2228 compliant draft that will go onto Standards Track - I >would very much like this group to sponsor that draft rather than publish >it as an individual. This approach is very similar to that taken by >https, where there is a 'how it works today' Informational RFC (2818) and >a 'how it should work' Standards Track one (2817). Is it ever going to work "how it should work", or is it more likely that the "how it works today" will be the way it'll always work? I guess what I'm asking is whether this will create unnecessary confusion, publishing two somewhat contradictory RFCs, leading one to suspect that the Standards Track version is the one new developers should comply with, but turning out that everyone uses the Informational one? >I believe that the charter of this group includes this type of work, as >well as the HOST stuff etc... and so to wind it up to start another seems >a little pointless. I think also that even if the working group gets wound up, there needs to be some form of mailing list continuing for discussion of more general FTP-related issues - there are some topics that I've been holding back, waiting for the new-RFC-related work to conclude, before discussing. >As far as the spam level goes - I guess it's an annoying noise to signal >ratio, but that's really because of the lack of signal at the moment. Agreed - the noise level is constant (and actually, fairly small). It's the signal level that is lacking. Perhaps what's needed at this point is a procedural reminder - what is the purpose of the working group (as opposed to just a general FTP developers mailing list), what durations does it have placed on it, and what is the procedure for extending that purpose and/or those durations? Sadly, I don't know the answers to that. Alun. ~~~~ P.S. Paul, FYI, I'll be working on an SSL implementation of my FTP server, WFTPD Pro, just as soon as I can get the new release bolted down and shipped. -- Texas Imperial Software | Try WFTPD, the Windows FTP Server. Find us at 1602 Harvest Moon Place | http://www.wftpd.com or email alun@texis.com Cedar Park TX 78613-1419 | VISA/MC accepted. NT-based sites, be sure to Fax/Voice +1(512)378-3246 | read details of WFTPD Pro for NT. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 10:27:22 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA05134 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006092924-18404-10 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:29:24 -0500 Received: from mail.vr.net (mail.vr.net [205.133.13.8]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006092920-56984-8 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:29:22 -0500 Received: from osiris (osiris.vr.net [205.133.13.9]) (authenticated) by mail.vr.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e96EOgh05391 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:24:43 -0400 Message-ID: <005101c02fa1$b8d3c3e0$090d85cd@vr.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001006071630.0176a5b8@mail.io.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:29:22 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:28:30 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Gregory A Lundberg" To: "FTPEXT Working Group" Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is it ever going to work "how it should work", or is it more likely that > the "how it works today" will be the way it'll always work? I guess what > I'm asking is whether this will create unnecessary confusion, publishing > two somewhat contradictory RFCs, leading one to suspect that the Standards > Track version is the one new developers should comply with, but turning out > that everyone uses the Informational one? I think I agree with what I this Alun is saying here: one or the other, please, but not both. From what I've seen "how it works today" is best summed up by saying "not very well". If you feel the best-current-practice should be documented, do that in the introductory section, make it clear the discussion is an analysis of why it doesn't do what's required, and leave it at that. > >I believe that the charter of this group includes this type of work, as > >well as the HOST stuff etc... and so to wind it up to start another seems > >a little pointless. > > I think also that even if the working group gets wound up, there needs to > be some form of mailing list continuing for discussion of more general > FTP-related issues - there are some topics that I've been holding back, > waiting for the new-RFC-related work to conclude, before discussing. http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ftpext-charter.html What it looks like to me as if the charter is the problem. It's been out there for so long it's gotten stale. What's needed is a more-current charter. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 10:58:28 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA05738 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006095517-31248-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:55:17 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.52.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006095514-6248-8 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:55:14 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10927 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 00 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 00 11:03:50 -0400 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <39DDB18F.15719.13337166@localhost> In-reply-to: <009501c02f3b$9eb1c400$090d85cd@vr.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v4.0, pre-alpha) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:55:15 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:03:46 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 5 Oct 2000, at 21:17, Gregory A Lundberg wrote: > Personally, I think the time has come for a supercedes-959 RFC. Once both I agree with this. > As for moderation of the WG mailing list: why bother? The spam level is > running only one or two messages a day. At that low level, ISTM it's more > work to talk about fixing a non-problem than it is to simply ignore it. If I disagree with this. To me, its not the total amount of spam, is the ratio of spam to substance. So far its lots more spam than substance. Just require posters to be subscribed, that should be easy enough, any mailing list software can do it. Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 11:12:06 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA06051 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006101415-49802-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:14:15 -0500 Received: from anvil.murkworks.com (murkwork.pey.clarkson.edu [128.153.52.16]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006101412-37990-8 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:14:12 -0500 Received: from coal.murkworks.com (coal.murkworks.com [128.153.43.3]) by anvil.murkworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10963 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GIMPELSTIMER/SpoolDir by coal.murkworks.com (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 00 11:22:59 -0400 Received: from SpoolDir by GIMPELSTIMER (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 00 11:22:56 -0400 Organization: MurkWorks, Incorporated. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <39DDB60A.18832.1344F274@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.2.7.2.20001006071630.0176a5b8@mail.io.com> References: <80256970.003981A3.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v4.0, pre-alpha) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:14:12 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:22:53 -0400 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: "Brad Clements" To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: SSL, was moderation Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 6 Oct 2000, at 7:28, Alun Jones wrote: > P.S. Paul, FYI, I'll be working on an SSL implementation of my FTP server, > WFTPD Pro, just as soon as I can get the new release bolted down and > shipped. -- I'm also looking to add SSL support to my FTP server for NetWare. Where can I get the draft documents? Thanks Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 12:52:26 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA08173 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006115433-42376-13 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:54:33 -0500 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com [195.212.29.2]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006115430-6791-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:54:31 -0500 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA134718 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:36:47 +0100 Received: from d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06mta07_cs0 [9.180.35.5]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.93) with SMTP id RAA258432 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:45 +0100 Received: by d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 80256970.005C6DF5 ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:34 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMGB Message-ID: <80256970.005C6CCB.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:54:31 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:31 +0100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: paulfordh@uk.ibm.com To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: SSL, was moderation http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-murray-auth-ftp-ssl-06.txt -- Paul Ford-Hutchinson : eCommerce application security : paulfordh@uk.ibm.com MPT-6, IBM , PO Box 31, Birmingham Rd, Warwick, CV34 5YR +44 (0)1926 462005 w3 - http://dandare.inedi.warwick.uk.ibm.com/~pfh/mine.html Please respond to FTPEXT Working Group To: FTPEXT Working Group cc: (bcc: Paul V Ford-Hutchinson/UK/IBM) Subject: Ftp-WG: SSL, was moderation On 6 Oct 2000, at 7:28, Alun Jones wrote: > P.S. Paul, FYI, I'll be working on an SSL implementation of my FTP server, > WFTPD Pro, just as soon as I can get the new release bolted down and > shipped. -- I'm also looking to add SSL support to my FTP server for NetWare. Where can I get the draft documents? Thanks Brad Clements, bkc@murkworks.com (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 12:52:33 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA08184 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006115427-34785-10 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:54:27 -0500 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com [195.212.29.3]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006115424-5981-8 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:54:24 -0500 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA95418 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:41:36 +0100 Received: from d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06mta07_cs0 [9.180.35.5]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.93) with SMTP id RAA258430 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:45 +0100 Received: by d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 80256970.005C6E93 ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:36 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMGB Message-ID: <80256970.005C6CCB.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:54:25 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:49:31 +0100 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: paulfordh@uk.ibm.com To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? >> Is it ever going to work "how it should work", or is it more likely that >> the "how it works today" will be the way it'll always work? I guess what >> I'm asking is whether this will create unnecessary confusion, publishing >> two somewhat contradictory RFCs, leading one to suspect that the Standards >> Track version is the one new developers should comply with, but turning out >> that everyone uses the Informational one? >I think I agree with what I this Alun is saying here: one or the other, >please, but not both. >From what I've seen "how it works today" is best summed up by saying "not >very well". If you feel the best-current-practice should be documented, do >that in the introductory section, make it clear the discussion is an >analysis of why it doesn't do what's required, and leave it at that. Hmmm - To be honest I think current implementations of secure FTP follow somthing like this: a) use an ssl tunnel on the control connection - data goes unencrypted b) listen on 990 and do the ssl immediately upon connection - implicitly protect the data connection c) use the AUTH SSL command to start SSL negotiation on the control and implicitly protect the data d) use the AUTH TLS command to start SSL on the Control and use PBSZ 0; PROT P to protect the data. a) is pathethic, b) is outmoded and broken, c) is used by a few implementations, particularly the pioneering stuff done by Tim Hudson for the SSLeay work and d) is the way most new implementation I have seen seem to go (good on them). Currently the draft indicates how b), c) and d) should work and explains how they are not mutually exclusive, despite b) and c) being in direct conflict with 2228. I think there is some value in that discussion being documented. I also think that the draft is confusing in that it doesn't contain a single implementation path. Therefore I feel there is a need to publish two. This is the exact model that http has gone down and I think there is good reason to follow their precedent. For those of you familiar with the draft, I propose to leave all the discussion stuff and the timing diagram stuff (which should have been in 959 in the first place) in the Informational draft and put the bare bones of the AUTH TLS, PBSZ and PROT comands into a small simple Standards track document that is easy to follow and implement. Paul -- Paul Ford-Hutchinson : eCommerce application security : paulfordh@uk.ibm.com MPT-6, IBM , PO Box 31, Birmingham Rd, Warwick, CV34 5YR +44 (0)1926 462005 From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 6 13:38:47 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA09236 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006124024-48770-10 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:40:24 -0500 Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001006124021-49388-9 ; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:40:21 -0500 Received: from magnus.io.com (aus-as4-129.io.com [208.2.105.129]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08279 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:35:57 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001006121946.0172c2d8@mail.io.com> X-Sender: alun@mail.io.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 In-Reply-To: <80256970.005C6CCB.00@d06mta07.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:40:22 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:34:37 -0500 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Alun Jones To: FTPEXT Working Group Subject: Ftp-WG: Moderation? At 11:54 AM 10/6/2000, paulfordh@uk.ibm.com wrote: >Currently the draft indicates how b), c) and d) should work and explains >how they are not mutually exclusive, despite b) and c) being in direct >conflict with 2228. I think there is some value in that discussion being >documented. I also think that the draft is confusing in that it doesn't >contain a single implementation path. Therefore I feel there is a need to >publish two. This is the exact model that http has gone down and I think >there is good reason to follow their precedent. For those of you familiar >with the draft, I propose to leave all the discussion stuff and the timing >diagram stuff (which should have been in 959 in the first place) in the >Informational draft and put the bare bones of the AUTH TLS, PBSZ and PROT >comands into a small simple Standards track document that is easy to >follow and implement. Sounds far better, and more appropriate, than I was imagining. Sorry, but when you talk (esp. in this WG) about "how web is supposed to work, and how it actually works", you frequently come up against things like the old chestnut of the ftp: URL specification - it's documented in RFC 1738 as a relative path, and yet it's implemented everywhere as an absolute path, with the rather peculiar "ftp://host/./foo" to get foo from the current directory after login! I was concerned that we might be heading towards an even more confusing state of having two contradictory RFCs, one stating "this is how it should be done, in theory", and the other saying "but instead, this is how it is done, in practice". What it sounds like you're proposing is "this is how it should be done, in theory and in practice", and an informational RFC to say "and some historical implementations may do it like this". Alun. ~~~~ -- Texas Imperial Software | Try WFTPD, the Windows FTP Server. Find us at 1602 Harvest Moon Place | http://www.wftpd.com or email alun@texis.com Cedar Park TX 78613-1419 | VISA/MC accepted. NT-based sites, be sure to Fax/Voice +1(512)378-3246 | read details of WFTPD Pro for NT. 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These risks and uncertainties coul= d significantly affect results in the future and actual results may differ materially form any representations herein. Forward-looking statements are= typically identified by the words: believe, expect, anticipate, intend, estimate, and similar expressions or which by there nature refer to future= events. This press release shall not constitute an offer to sell any securities or solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. This publication is an advertisement on behalf of the said company and may not be construed as investment advice. This is not to be purported to be a complete analysis of the company mentioned. Investing in securities is speculative and carries a high degree of risk. You should independently investigate and fully understand all risks before. 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE THINK SO !! Dnaprint (DNAP) is an emerging biotech company and is trading under $1 !!= ! 1) CEO (Dr. Tony Frudakis) Lead scientist for Corixa starts his own compa= ny a=20 few months ago =20 2) Company is formed by a reverse merger of a pinksheet company 3) DNAP has already completed the accounting to get off the pinksheets an= d=20 should be listed on the OTCBB soon. 4) Dr. Frudakis was responsible for a patent that sold for $54,000,000 t= o=20 Smith Kline Beecham while he was at Corixa. =20 5) Corixa's stock has gone from 14 Cents a few years ago to 50 Dollars to= day. =20 6) According to the Barron's article (9/25/00 pg 52), Dnaprint is in the = late stages of forming=20 strategic alliances with major companies. 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http://www.ragingbull.altavista.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=3DPCBM&read=3D= 132816=20 dnap has unusually good promise=97accounting for the sad fact that were i= n =93basher heaven=94-read me=20 http://www.ragingbull.altavista.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=3DPCBM&read=3D= 132818=20 sec offers tips on how to avoid scams on the internet=97good article=20 http://www.sec.gov/consumer/cyberfr.htm=20 CONTENTS=20 1.BACKGROUND=20 2.FOUNDERS=20 3.PRODUCTS&SERVICES=20 1.BACKGROUND=20 DNAPrint genomics is a young e-biotech company based in southwest Florida= . We are developing an informatics platform system that will provide dyna= mic solutions for disease gene discovery, genetic predisposition and gene= tic analysis testing. Our work has real-life application to the germinati= ng field of Personalized Medicine and will help lay the foundation for a = brand-new area of medical research called Phenomics.=20 The PhenomeSM platform system that we are developing will help identify a= n individual predisposed to develop cancer before the onset of illness so= that lifestyles can be altered and/or preventative measures taken. It wi= ll be used to identify individuals who are incompatible with certain drug= treatments before the drugs are prescribed and damage is done. It will b= e used to tease out important genetic determinants associated with comple= x genetic diseases, so that drugs can be developed to target these genes.= =20 Our aim is ambitious. By partnering our platform with biotech/pharma, we = will participate in the downstream profits generated from pharmaceutical = products our platform has enabled. By marketing our platform directly to = the public, we intend to make comprehensive genotype screening solutions = accessible to people all over the world via the internet. Our system will= enable a more holistic approach to using genomics information to improve= peoples lives.=20 The patient of the future will have more information and power than ever = imagined. The human genome project, the internet and recent technological= advancements all contribute to make this possible, and we intend to take= advantage of these synergies to become the primary conduit for the gener= ation and distribution of personalized genetic information.=20 The Market=20 Pharmacogenomics is currently a 1 billion dollar industry and is projecte= d to be a 10 billion dollar industry by the end of 2003. Several billions= of dollars have been spent on the human genome project so far, and an eq= ual amount will likely be spent trying to understand what all of the geno= mics information means (i.e. bioinformatics, proteomics and phenomics). G= enomics is a multi billion dollar industry world-wide and the market for = personalized medicine is expected to exceed $25 billion dollars by 2010. = Recently congress has approved a $2.3 billion increase in NIH funding to = a total of $18 billion dollars for the year 2000.=20 2.FOUNDERS=20 Tony Frudakis, Ph.D.(tfrudakis@dnaprint.com)=20 Chief Executive Officer, President and Laboratory Director. Dr. Tony Frud= akis is a Phi Beta Kappa, Magna Cumme Laude graduate of the University of= California system. He received his doctorate degree in molecular and cel= l biology from the University of California Berkeley and has 14 total yea= rs of experience as a molecular biologist. Dr. Frudakis' technical experi= ence encompass a range of areas within biology, including the molecular b= iology of eukaryotic transcriptional regulation, the creation and study o= f transgenic animals, the development of novel nucleic acid isolation tec= hniques and gene discovery protocols, bioinformatics processing and anato= mical gene expression profiling. At Corixa Corporation in Seattle, WA he = developed several new techniques for RNA fingerprinting, managed and exec= uted high-throughput gene discovery programs for various cancers and was = instrumental in the companies early success in attracting R and D partner= s. Founding GAFF biologic in 1998, Dr. Frudakis established a good reputa= tion for high quality DNA sequencing and library construction/screening s= ervices, until its evolution into the DNAPrint Genomics that exists today= . In all, his work has resulted in a patent portfolio for over 350 unique= genes and 2 products=20 George Frudakis(gfrudakis@dnaprint.com)=20 Vice President of Business Affairs. George Frudakis has vast experience w= ith start-up company development. He started and developed a successful m= ulti-component company called GAFF group, which today enjoys over 15 mill= ion dollars annually in revenue. During his life=92s work as an entrepren= eur and businessman, George has learned how to run and successfully manag= e the financial and operational aspects of both small and large companies= alike. He is a graduate from the California State University at Long Bea= ch in California.=20 Myung Ho Kim, Ph.D. Mathematics(mkim@dnaprint.com)=20 Director of Informatics and Lead Mathemetician. Myung recieved his Ph.D. = in Mathematics from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1988 and M= .S. in Mathematics from The Ohio State University in Columbus Ohio. Most = recently, Myung worked on the Ant World Server project supported by DARPA= (Defense Advanced Research Progect Agency) and implemented Kolmogorov-Sm= irnov tests, linear/nonlinear regression, nonparametric analysis and mode= ling to a TREC 6 (Text Retrieval Conference) project using SAS, C/C++ and= Perl languages. Prior to this, Myung simulated mathematical modeling for= breast tumors and implemented/developed various image processing algorit= hms. He has served as an Honorary research Fellow in the Department of Ma= thematics and Information Science at the University of Auckland, New Zeal= and and a Visiting Research Scholor in the Department of Mathematics at t= he University of California at Santa Cruz in California. Prior to coming = to the United States, Myung held the position of Assistant Professor in t= he Department of Mathematics at Sungkyunkwan University in Soel Korea.=20 Venkateswarlu Kondragunta, Ph.D. (vkondragunta@dnaprint.com)=20 Director of Biostatistics. 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(SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA08090; Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:43:45 +0900 Message-Id: <200009272143.GAA08090@ns.> Received: from [5.168.241.241] by _[114.92.62.149]_by with SMTP id A87C24E2 Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:24:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain, charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:44:02 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:41:54 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: HotStock@masterone.com To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Why So Much Smart Money Is So High on Read-Rite !! Link to article below: http://www.thestreet.com/comment/herbonthestreet/1096812.html Commentary: Herb on TheStreet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why So Much Smart Money Is So High on Read-Rite By Herb Greenberg Senior Columnist 9/26/00 6:30 AM ET Read-Rite(symbol= RDRT) Feeling benevolent, so let's get bullish: Reading right: As I've written in RealMoney.com's Columnist Conversation, the one stock quite a few of my smartest sources are yapping about is Read-Rite (RDRT:Nasdaq - news - boards), the (until very recently) long-forgotten maker of heads for disk drives. The only reason I take it seriously is because of the variety of investors in the stock (from seasoned and savvy traders to some of the most-dogged researchers I know). Most of the sizzle surrounding the company in recent weeks has been tied to the launch of a new division called Scion Photonics, which is developing optical wafers for use in the fiber-optic networks, and which was initially funded with $25 mil from Tyco Ventures and Roger McNamee's Integral Capital, which got a quarter of the company in return. But that's only part of the story: According to Scott Turkel of TCM Partners, who has had his share of hits and misses in this column, and who also happens to be the only on-the-record holder among my sources, the company without Scion is worth about where it trades today, $10.50, or around 1 times sales. "They're completely sold out in their core business in the fourth quarter," he says, "and for the first time, they have pricing power." (One reason is that disk drives are no longer sold mostly for PCs; they've become a staple in storage networks.) Scion, meanwhile, is currently valued at around $100 million (based on Tyco/Integral's 25% stake). "Chump change," says Turkel. That's because the valuation is without even having a marketable product; the first wafer isn't expected to hit the market until next year (which, I should point out, is why some skeptics are, uh, skeptical). But another very sharp manager I know, who is often short stocks, said he saw Read-Rite at several recent conferences, and "I thought the story got better between Salomon Smith Barney and Banc of America, both on the optics side and on their base business. They actually showed a slide of the optical wafer prototype they had made; they said they are sampling product with several customers. They said, Our customers have said, 'If you can make them, we'll buy them.' In other words, the move to optical is less theoretical than it was a month ago." What's more, according to this money manger, who is great at spotting nuances, "They went from saying, 'We'll be break-even cash flow in Q-4 from core businesses,' to saying, 'We are on allocation and we may actually make money in Q4' from the core business.' " Based on that, Turkel (who first bought the stock when it was $4 not long ago) thinks he now owns a $10 stock that is worth $25. P.S.: Read-Rite recently paid the first installment of interest on a convertible bond with cash, rather than stock, which was an alternative. (The cash came from the State of Wisconsin Investment Board, already a large Read-Rite investor.) Translation to some investors: The only reason the state paid with cash is because it thinks the stock is going higher. Or, put another way, Wisconsin, which already owns a 20% stake, wouldn't have sunk in even more cash if it didn't think it would make a decent return. (Did I really write something that glowing? Must be some kind of a market top!) (Voluntary Disclosure: Position- Long) Read-Rite CEO gets into growth By Janet Haney, CBS.MarketWatch.com Last Update: [Timestamp]NewsWatch Latest headlines SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- Read-Rite Chief Executive Officer Alan Lowe waxed positive about the future growth prospects for the magnetic-recording-head supplier. Lowe told a crowd of investors and analysts during a presentation at the Banc of America Securities Investment Conference in San Francisco on Thursday that he expects huge unit growth potential for Read-Rite's (RDRT: news, msgs) December quarter, as well as the possibility of profitability. Lowe added that the company is hiring people as fast as it can for its wafer fabrication facility. For the September quarter, the CEO said Read-Rite has a "lot of product to ship in the last 10 days of the quarter." Additionally, Lowe talked about Read-Rite's recent formation of an independent fiber optic company called Scion Photonics which he said hopes to go public. Scion received funding from Tyco, which will make a presentation at the conference later Thursday. Janet Haney is a reporter for CBS.MarketWatch.com. 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CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED. make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets write: (a) the number and name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name and postal address. REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: S. STARK P.O. BOX 61009 HOUSTON, TEXAS 77208-1009 REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: WAYNE ELLIOTT 11918 SE DIVISION #358 PORTLAND, OR 97266 REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: RYAN ROMNEY P.O. 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Further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this e-mail address with the words "remove" in the subject line. ******************************************************************** From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 18 18:52:19 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA14358 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001018175425-38036-10 ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:54:25 -0500 Received: from lgsdl2.lgsg.de (62.159.67.102 [62.159.67.102]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001018175420-36298-8 ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:54:20 -0500 Received: from 63.38.85.247 by lgsdl2.lgsg.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA25900; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:41:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000074450736$00002d3a$00000d7b@63.38.85.247> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:54:22 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:47:24 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: jmele51542@dnai.com To: Subject: Ftp-WG: Accept Credit Cards Online 3451 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quick Application
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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 18 19:44:00 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA19966 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001018184116-65296-9 ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:41:16 -0500 Received: from baosoft.com (202.101.38.219 [202.101.38.219]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001018184113-53977-8 ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:41:14 -0500 Received: from _[214.203.168.109]_by by baosoft.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA00319; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:36:19 +0800 Message-Id: <200010182336.HAA00319@baosoft.com> Received: from [242.174.181.14] by _[214.203.168.109]_by with SMTP id A31C28E10 Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:16:45 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain, charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:41:14 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:34:02 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Stockpicks@all.com To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: DNAP- Could this be the next high flying biotech Stock!! 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NEWS!!!!!!!!! 10/17/00 DNAP DNAPrint genomics Announces Merger RELATED SYMBOLS: (DNAP) SARASOTA, Fla., Oct 17, 2000 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- DNAPrint genomics, Inc., (Pink Sheets:DNAP), today announced that it has merged with an SEC 12g full reporting company, SDE Holdings 1, Inc., after acquiring all of the issued and outstanding stock of SDE. The merger allows DNAPrint genomics, Inc. to file its 211 application with the NASD as a successor full reporting company to become listed on the OTC Bulletin Board. DNAPrint expects to file its 8-k 12g3 within the next few days, and will apply to the NASD immediately after that filing. About DNAPrint Genomics, Inc. DNAPrint genomics, Inc. provides practitioners of genomic research and personalized medicine with a comprehensive system for complex trait dissection and patient classification. DNAPrint genomics Inc. was founded by a group of scientists with research and commercial experience in high-level mathematical modeling, programming and molecular genetics. For more information about the company, please visit www.dnaprint.com All statements in this press release that are not historical are forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act as amended, including statements regarding DNAPrint's ability to conduct high throughput genotyping using Orchid's SNPstream 25K platform and SNPware kits and the potential for use of Orchid's automated systems by developing companies. 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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 20 16:57:59 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA26588 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001020155937-11459-8 ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:59:37 -0500 Received: from svrb-mail (mailhost.sterry.co.uk [195.54.224.176]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001020155928-4752-9 ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:59:31 -0500 Received: from 4.54.137.46 by svrb-mail ([192.168.200.13] running VPOP3) with SMTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:53:47 +0100 Message-ID: <000038d81538$000006c3$00005508@> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Server: VPOP3 V1.4.0a - Registered to: Sterry Communications (UK) Ltd Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:59:33 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:55:33 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: eludwig@sprintmail.com To: Subject: Ftp-WG: Fast Easy Cash 21768 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FREE Mortgage Quote

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(NOTE - We only ship to the address listed on the credit card) (Please Fill Out Below Section and Make sure that the above name and address are listed as it appears on the card) for $144 ($139 + 5.00 Shipping) ********* ************************** Credit Card Number:________________________________ Expiration Date:___________________________ Signature:_________________________ Date:____________________ * Please check one of the following payment options: [ ] I am faxing a check (Do not send original, we will make a draft from the faxed check) [ ] I am faxing or mailing my credit card number. (Note your card will be charged for $144.00 and we only ship to the address on the card) [ ] I am enclosing a check or money order for $144.00! Note - If ordering outside continental US, please add $5 to S&H P.S. If you send in your order and you are not one of the first 50 to receive the Reprint and Reproduction Rights, I will notify you immediately and give you the opportunity to cancel your order. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ If you have received this message in error and would like to be removed from future mailings, please reply with the word remove in the subject. x _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Wed Oct 25 18:49:24 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com ([208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA28015 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001025175140-62984-9 ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:51:40 -0500 Received: from baosoft.com (202.101.38.219 [202.101.38.219]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001025175137-23045-8 ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:51:37 -0500 Received: from _[57.153.227.246]_by by baosoft.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA29218; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:46:58 +0800 Message-Id: <200010252246.GAA29218@baosoft.com> Received: from [124.194.196.171] by _[57.153.227.246]_by with SMTP id A117C15E8 Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:28:02 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:51:38 -0500 X-OldDate: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:45:18 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: Ted@money.com To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Search Engine Optimization Kit - 2000
Learn how to achieve Top 10 positions in search engines.

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937.885.7732


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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 26 07:01:18 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com ([208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA19423 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001026055743-53043-9 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 05:57:43 -0500 Received: from radiant.net (radiant.net [207.194.200.18]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001026055738-27609-9 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 05:57:38 -0500 Received: from radiant.net [216.21.139.54] by radiant.net (SMTPD32-6.04) id AA8D13B500AE; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:42:21 -0700 Message-Id: <200010260342718.SM02500@radiant.net> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 05:57:40 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:42:22 -0700 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: writer@radiant.net To: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Documentation Specialist Seeking Contract Work Documentation Specialists Seeking Contract Work - Technical Writing, Editing,Graphics, Robohelp, HTML, SGML, etc. Senior technical writers, senior editors, project leaders and electronic documentation specialists seek contract work. Clients have included companies such as Microsoft and Koch Petroleum. Excellent communication skills, able to work with all levels of the company from programmers to CEO. Excellent background in technical, marketing and creative writing. Familiar with educational material as well as e-commerce. Writing samples, full resume and references available on request. Experience in creating both published and online documentation. REQUIRED: Prefer Corp to Corp Sole relationship directly with the client. Agents are also welcome in the same capacity. Production is done at our facility. We are fully equipped. PLEASE REPLY ONLY BY PHONE Contact - Casey Lea or Domhnall CGN Adams, CS - TO INQUIRE ABOUT SERVICES, AVAILABILITY, OR TO CONFIRM REMOVAL FROM OUR LIST CALL 780-998-4066 PST Rates: Fees are charged by the hour or by the project. _________________________________________________________ This Message was Composed by a user of Extractor Pro '98 Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Thu Oct 26 19:51:25 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com ([208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA26376 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001026185317-296-10 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:53:17 -0500 Received: from mail.pitc.com.tw (203.75.187.2 [203.75.187.2]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001026185309-37821-8 ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:53:10 -0500 Received: from od7r6m4t.localhost ([4.4.228.190]) by mail.pitc.com.tw (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 619-51520U100L2S100) with SMTP id ADA62; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:16:19 +0800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Message-Id: <6rfkje731u0.aa4qoa@od7r6m4t.localhost> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:53:14 -0500 X-OldDate: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:49:32 -0800 Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: holye101@aol.com To: @heto.net Subject: Ftp-WG: Lenders COMPETE for your MORTAGE Loan!! -qpajjpkdjh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
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From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Fri Oct 27 11:46:30 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA03408 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001027104816-9301-10 ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:48:16 -0500 Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001027104803-43640-9 ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:48:11 -0500 Received: from mail.earthlink.net (1Cust175.tnt3.panama-city.fl.da.uu.net [63.15.220.175]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20646; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from preapproved20@mail.com by preapproved202@mail.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA05345 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:02:24 -0600 (EST) Message-ID: <> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:48:13 -0500 X-OldDate: Fri, 27 Oct 00 09:02:24 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: preapproved20@mail.com To: preapproved202@mail.com Subject: Ftp-WG: Home based opportunity offering bank credit cards "BECOME A CREDIT CARD CONSULTANT" Yes, you can earn a great deal of money by providing this much needed service to the individuals in your community. You'll be an absolute "dream-come-true" and your only business will be showing people how and where to obtain the best deals in credit cards. IT'S TRUE!!! Yes, you can qualify to get a major bank credit card even if you've had bad credit, no credit, low income, are concerned about employment status, marital status, age, etc. You can obatin a major bank credit card with credit limits from $250 to $5,000 per card. In today's society, credit cards are almost a must when cashing a check, making hotel reservations, renting a car, caught short on cash, and establishing a credit history. UNSECURED MAJOR BANK CREDIT CARDS!!! Yes, you read that right! Unsecured Visas and MasterCards are now available for people who have had bad credit or no credit at all! GUARANTEED $10,000 IN CREDIT! We absolutely guarantee you'll receive 3 to 5 new credit cards with credit lines totaling $10,000. You'll receive an exclusive list of 5 merchants that will grant you credit for the asking with no credit check and no security deposit. You can charge up to $10,000 in merchandise next week! Remember you can not be refused, these are pre-approved! Now is the time to act! Banks, financial institutions, and merchandisers are aggressively seeking individuals to grant credit to. As a consultant you will become the "talk of the town" by offering this unique service within your community. At least 90% of the people in your city or state will benefit from this information because it applies to people who have established credit, as well as people who have bad credit, or absolutely no credit at all. THE PERFECT HOME-BASED BUSINESS! It's the best business opportunity you can get into and the time is just right! This opportunity has no seasons or boundaries and can be done any place in the US. Now you can operate a "service business" right from your own home by showing individuals with bad credit, or no credit, how to obtain a major credit card and showing established credit card holders how to save money in interest. Practically everyone can benefit from this information and will pay you handsomely for learning the secrets of obtaining these credit cards. You need absolutely no experience since our state-of- the-art marketing program will bring you hundreds of orders requesting this information and you can get started immediately. Take advantage of this program for your own credit card interest savings! As a consultant you will be filling orders that come directly to your address for "The Credit Solutions Consultant Program" which reveals the sources for the best deals in the credit card history! . DID YOU KNOW! In the last 12 months over 20 million people were denied a major credit card and twice that number want these cards, but don't know where or how to obtain them. Through our unique program, those previously denied can now obtain a major credit card within a matter of weeks. This is a ground floor oportunity with virtually no competition! The demand is overwhelming and you will have the knowledge and tools to fill it. Use our program to obtain your own credit card even if you have been turned down before. In our timeframe of documenting this business opportunity we discovered an individual who earned over $100,000 in his first year of operation, and this was from offering only the secured credit card service in his own city. The potential here is unlimited and now you have the opportunity to achieve your goals and financial independence with this unique money making program! START IMMEDIATELY! Our company will provide you with all the necessary information to get started immediately and you can start earning money immediately! Regardless of your position now, you can discover the personal financial freedom waiting for you in this unique "service business" opportunity today! Within two weeks of receipt of "The Credit Solutions Consultant Program" you can start receiving hundreds of dollars in orders and all you have to do is fill them with information we supply you. It's that simple! ACT IN THE NEXT 7 DAYS AND RECEIVE THE "Credit Solutions Consultants" manual and a free bonus, "The #1 Wealth Building System in America." ACT NOW!! Here's How To Order: Special Limited Time offer only $34.99 add ($5 for 7-10 day shipping & handling, or $10 for 2nd day shipping). All orders are processed within 48 hours and shipped by US mail only. All checks are verified through Check-Rite. Write to: Credit Solutions Consultants 266 Elmwood Avenue, #172 Buffalo, NY 14222 30 DAY NO-RISK GUARANTEE!! Want FAST service? Charge to your credit card or.... we also accept checks and credit cards by fax!! 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. est. at ( 1-716-834-7443 ) To be removed from the mailing list boswell4629@yahoo.com This mailing is done by an independent marketing company. We opologize if this message has reached you in error. Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise via E mail. No wasted paper! Delete with one simple keystroke! Less refuse in our Dumps. This is the new way of the new millennium! From ftp-wg-owner@hethmon.com Sat Oct 28 17:04:39 2000 Received: from mail.hethmon.com (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA03372 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail (mail.hethmon.com [208.147.156.32]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001028160637-16117-10 ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:06:37 -0500 Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by mail.hethmon.com (Hethmon Brothers Smtpd) id 20001028160620-41528-8 ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:06:32 -0500 Received: from mail.earthlink.net (1Cust216.tnt2.panama-city.fl.da.uu.net [63.25.165.216]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA14228; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tvcable11@geocities.com by tvcable111@geocities.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA02272 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:21:11 -0600 (EST) Message-ID: <> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:06:35 -0500 X-OldDate: Sat, 28 Oct 00 14:21:11 EST Sender: ftp-wg-owner X-Listname: ftp-wg@hethmon.com Reply-To: FTPEXT Working Group From: tvcable11@geocities.com To: tvcable111@geocities.com Subject: Ftp-WG: TV CABLE NEWS for you NOTE: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR LEGAL TV DE-SCRAMBLER. IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS INFORMATION PLEASE CLICK DELETE NOW. THANK YOU-- LEGAL CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER Want to watch Sporting Events?--Movies?--Pay-Per-View?? You can assemble from electronic store parts for about $12.00. We Send You: E-Z To follow Assembly Instructions. E-Z To read Original Drawings. Electronic parts lists. PLUS SOMETHING NEW YOU MUST HAVE! Something you can't do without. THE UP-TO-DATE REPORT: USING A DESCRAMBLER LEGALLY Warning: You should not build a TV Descrambler without reading this report first. Frequently Asked Questions--CABLE TV DESCRAMBLER Q: Will the descrambler work on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod A: The answer is YES. Q: Do I need a converter box? A: This plan works with or without a converter box. Specific instructions are included in the plans for each! Q: Can the cable company detect that I have the descrambler? A: No, the signal descrambles right at the box and does not move back through the line! Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system, television or VCR? A: The answer is no! Q: Does this work with my remote control? A: The answer is yes. The descrambler is manually controlled--but very easy to use! Q: Can you email me the plans? A: No the program comes with an easy to follow picture guide. Q: Does this work everywhere across the country? A: Yes, every where in the USA plus England, Brazil, Canada and other countries! Q: Is this deal guaranteed? A: Yes, if you are unhappy for any reason we will refund your money. ORDER INFORMATION ACT WITHIN THE NEXT 14 DAYS AND RECEIVE TWO FREE BONUS!! THE CABLE MANUAL! This manual contains hard to find information your cable company does not want you to know. Also receive The RADAR JAMMER PLANS! Never get another speeding ticket. Build you own radar jammer, this unit will jam police radar so they can't get a reading on your vechicle. Radar jammers are legal in 48 states. It is simple to build. The FREE BONUSES ALONE ARE WORTH ACTING NOW! THE CABLE DESCRAMBLER KIT COMES WITH A THIRTY DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! IF YOUR NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED, SEND THE CABLE DESCRAMBLER KIT BACK AND YOU KEEP THE BONUSES FOR FREE. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE ACT NOW! SIMPLY SEND $14.00 CHECK OR, MONEY ORDER, OR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION TO: QUALITY RESOURCES 5399 EAST HWY C30-A #242 SEAGROVE BEACH, FL 32459 FOR CREDIT CARD ORDERS FILL OUT THIS FORM AND MAIL IN, ATTENTION QUALITY RESOURCES, here is my credit card information for the amount of $14.00 for the cable descrambler kit. ACCOUNT NUMBER____________________________________ EXP. DATE____________________ NAME_____________________________________________ BILLING ADDRESS__________________________________________ CITY/STATE/ZIP_____________________________________ HOME PHONE__________________________________ THIS INFORMATION IS SOLD FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY! This mailing is done by an independent marketing co. We apologize if this message has reached you in error. Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise via E mail. No wasted paper! Delete with one simple keystroke! Less refuse in our Dumps! This is the new way of new millennium! If you would like to be removed mc2malcolm@yahoo.com

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