From nobody Fri Sep 8 13:08:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2646B13293A for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n9PBbiZuO1FO for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a111.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A9AD1321E6 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a111.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a111.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1318F3C000741; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=WmcQZxqBGUrtqK /UUKV/Ic3A0Ao=; b=KNuvtxer0H/x9dWpZBFoDwMMd5AHzrkGM3Jrq0fVW+6nY4 4vD4s0tIjkzWzlHbdav93F5fPh0aXflkFTRiqPxsdRZBcmlaXoBgkqni9qPoWzZr cUM4Jjs0Uf51qqjjmJkaLpPyiTgC1ILEas95y/JLfzGlcL5SnGHwnLtpyPt6w= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a111.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACC253C001C15; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: ggie@ietf.org Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 16:07:58 -0400 Message-ID: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 20:08:02 -0000 Hi, Following up the discussion in Prague, here=E2=80=99s a first cut at tryi= ng to=20 capture some scoping for our onward discussions: Video and the IETF =E2=80=9CVideo=E2=80=9D covers a vast range of technologies and uses, and= its use of=20 Internet technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet=20 technologies at the same time. Creative uses of technologies for=20 video, and opportunities for new uses, abound. None of this will be=20 realized effectively without increased communication between engineers=20 working in different parts of the problem space. The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issues=20 in handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. The=20 scope is deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of=20 purpose. Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible,=20 appropriate venues for further discussion are identified. Work can be=20 done to refine problem statements for individual work items that are=20 proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is appropriate for=20 sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or=20 technologies. Breadth of topic areas includes: (end to end) transport, distribution=20 and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). =20 This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and=20 gateways/gateway performance. The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help in=20 framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address=20 them. Leslie. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Sep 11 01:50:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2889D133028 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:50:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nY_LPmp9Imvf for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85AC9126BF0 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 01:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DVE76226; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:50:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:49:24 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.138]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:48:49 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Leslie Daigle , "ggie@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions Thread-Index: AQHTKN40CIK7FJcFfke0kRYE9l7qqaKvX2BQ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> In-Reply-To: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.59B64E6B.000F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.138, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 039c8a794cbd8aa9fafe46513dd89d7e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:50:55 -0000 SGkgTGVzbGllLA0KVGhpcyBpcyBhIGdvb2Qgc3RhcnQuIEkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgcHJvcG9z ZWQgb3V0Y29tZS4gDQpJbiBnZW5lcmFsIHdlIGFyZSB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IGNvbnZlcmdpbmcg dmlkZW8vbXVsdGltZWRpYSBkZWxpdmVyeSBvdmVyIElQIG5ldHdvcmsgKEludGVybmV0PykgIGZy b20gcHJvZHVjdGlvbiB0byBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24gdGlsbCB0aGUgZW5kIHVzZXIuDQpXZSBwcm9i YWJseSBuZWVkIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gc3RhdGVtZW50ICB0byBkZXNjcmliZSB0 aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZXMgYW5kICBtZWRpYSBmbG93IHRvZGF5IGluIG9yZGVy IHRvIGlkZW50aWZ5IHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtcyB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGFkZHJlc3MuDQoNClRoYW5rcw0K Um9uaSBFdmVuDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogR0dJRSBb bWFpbHRvOmdnaWUtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIExlc2xpZSBEYWlnbGUN Cj4gU2VudDog15nXldedwqDXlSAwOCDXodek15jXnteR16ggMjAxNyAyMzowOA0KPiBUbzogZ2dp ZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbR0dJRV0gU2NvcGluZyBvdXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMNCj4g DQo+IA0KPiBIaSwNCj4gDQo+IEZvbGxvd2luZyB1cCB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBpbiBQcmFndWUs IGhlcmXigJlzIGEgZmlyc3QgY3V0IGF0IHRyeWluZyB0byBjYXB0dXJlDQo+IHNvbWUgc2NvcGlu ZyBmb3Igb3VyIG9ud2FyZCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uczoNCj4gDQo+IFZpZGVvIGFuZCB0aGUgSUVURg0K PiANCj4g4oCcVmlkZW/igJ0gY292ZXJzIGEgdmFzdCByYW5nZSBvZiB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgYW5k IHVzZXMsIGFuZCBpdHMgdXNlIG9mIEludGVybmV0DQo+IHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBpcyBjaGFuZ2lu ZyB0cmFkaXRpb25hbCBpbmR1c3RyaWVzIGFuZCBJbnRlcm5ldA0KPiB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgYXQg dGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZS4gICBDcmVhdGl2ZSB1c2VzIG9mIHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBmb3INCj4gdmlk ZW8sIGFuZCBvcHBvcnR1bml0aWVzIGZvciBuZXcgdXNlcywgYWJvdW5kLiAgTm9uZSBvZiB0aGlz IHdpbGwgYmUgcmVhbGl6ZWQNCj4gZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgd2l0aG91dCBpbmNyZWFzZWQgY29tbXVu aWNhdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIGVuZ2luZWVycyB3b3JraW5nIGluDQo+IGRpZmZlcmVudCBwYXJ0cyBv ZiB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBzcGFjZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBwdXJwb3NlIG9mIHRoZSBncm91cCBpcyB0 byBwcm92aWRlIGEgZm9ydW0gdG8gZGlzY3VzcyBjdXJyZW50IGlzc3VlcyBpbg0KPiBoYW5kbGlu ZyB2aWRlbyBvbiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQgYW5kIHdpdGggSW50ZXJuZXQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLiAgVGhl IHNjb3BlIGlzDQo+IGRlbGliZXJhdGVseSBicm9hZCBpbiB0b3BpY3MgY292ZXJlZCwgYW5kIHNo YWxsb3cgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YgcHVycG9zZS4NCj4gUHJvYmxlbXMgYXJlIGlkZW50aWZpZWQgYW5k IGRpc2N1c3NlZCwgYW5kLCB3aGVyZSBwb3NzaWJsZSwgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUNCj4gdmVudWVzIGZv ciBmdXJ0aGVyIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYXJlIGlkZW50aWZpZWQuICBXb3JrIGNhbiBiZSBkb25lIHRv IHJlZmluZQ0KPiBwcm9ibGVtIHN0YXRlbWVudHMgZm9yIGluZGl2aWR1YWwgd29yayBpdGVtcyB0 aGF0IGFyZQ0KPiBwcm9wb3NlZCBpbiBJRVRGIFdHcyBvciBlbHNld2hlcmUuICAgVGhpcyBmb3J1 bSBpcyBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBmb3INCj4gc2hhcmluZyBhbmQgZGlzY3Vzc2luZywgYnV0IGl0IGlz IG5vdCBleHBlY3RlZCB0byBkZXZlbG9wIHByb3RvY29scyBvcg0KPiB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMuDQo+ IA0KPiBCcmVhZHRoIG9mIHRvcGljIGFyZWFzIGluY2x1ZGVzOiAgKGVuZCB0byBlbmQpIHRyYW5z cG9ydCwgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uDQo+IGFuZCBwcm9kdWN0aW9uIG9mIHZpZGVvLCBhY3Jvc3MgbXVs dGlwbGUgKHBvdGVudGlhbCkgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlcykuDQo+IFRoaXMgaW5jbHVkZXMgc2lnbmFs aW5nLCBNUEVHIG11bHRpbWVkaWEsIHN1YnRpdGxlcywgY29udGFpbmVycyBhbmQNCj4gZ2F0ZXdh eXMvZ2F0ZXdheSBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgb3V0Y29tZXMgb2Yg ZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhcmU6ICBrbm93bGVkZ2Ugc2hhcmluZyBhbmQgaGVscCBpbg0KPiBmcmFtaW5n IHByb2JsZW0gc3RhdGVtZW50cyBhbmQgZmluZGluZyBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSB2ZW51ZXMgdG8gYWRk cmVzcw0KPiB0aGVtLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IExlc2xpZS4NCj4gDQo+IC0tDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQo+IExlc2xpZSBEYWlnbGUNCj4gUHJpbmNpcGFsLCBUaGlua2luZ0NhdCBFbnRlcnByaXNl cw0KPiBsZGFpZ2xlQHRoaW5raW5nY2F0LmNvbQ0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBHR0lFIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdA0KPiBHR0lFQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vZ2dpZQ0K From nobody Mon Sep 11 14:49:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B462132331 for ; 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Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:49:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.28.10 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Amreesh Phokeer Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:49:00 +0200 Message-ID: To: Roni Even Cc: Leslie Daigle , "ggie@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c1540669de710558f0e7cf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 21:49:44 -0000 --001a11c1540669de710558f0e7cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Leslie, I'm Amreesh from UCT, South Africa. I agree with the proposed outcome as well. I'd be interested in video content delivery in low-resourced networks especially in developing countries. Actually at a recent Internet Peering Forum in Africa, content providers mentioned about a lack of demand to deploy caches because of a relatively high cost of transit/co-location in some countries. I'm interested in the caching dynamics. This part of the work can eventually be tied back into the GAIA IRTF group's areas of interest. Regards, Amreesh On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Roni Even wrote: > Hi Leslie, > This is a good start. I agree with the proposed outcome. > In general we are talking about converging video/multimedia delivery over > IP network (Internet?) from production to distribution till the end user= . > We probably need as part of the problem statement to describe the > different architectures and media flow today in order to identify the > problems we want to address. > > Thanks > Roni Even > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: GGIE [mailto:ggie-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Daigle > > Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=95 08 =D7=A1=D7=A4=D7=98=D7=9E=D7=91=D7=A8= 2017 23:08 > > To: ggie@ietf.org > > Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Following up the discussion in Prague, here=E2=80=99s a first cut at tr= ying to > capture > > some scoping for our onward discussions: > > > > Video and the IETF > > > > =E2=80=9CVideo=E2=80=9D covers a vast range of technologies and uses, a= nd its use of > Internet > > technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet > > technologies at the same time. Creative uses of technologies for > > video, and opportunities for new uses, abound. None of this will be > realized > > effectively without increased communication between engineers working i= n > > different parts of the problem space. > > > > The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issue= s > in > > handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. The scope = is > > deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of purpose. > > Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible, appropriate > > venues for further discussion are identified. Work can be done to refi= ne > > problem statements for individual work items that are > > proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is appropriate for > > sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or > > technologies. > > > > Breadth of topic areas includes: (end to end) transport, distribution > > and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). > > This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and > > gateways/gateway performance. > > > > The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help i= n > > framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address > > them. > > > > > > Leslie. > > > > -- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Leslie Daigle > > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises > > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > GGIE mailing list > > GGIE@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > --=20 Amreesh Phokeer --001a11c1540669de710558f0e7cf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Leslie,

I'm Amreesh from UCT, So= uth Africa. I agree with the proposed outcome as well.
I'd be= interested in video content delivery in low-resourced networks especially = in developing countries. Actually at a recent Internet Peering Forum in Afr= ica, content providers mentioned about a lack of demand to deploy caches be= cause of a relatively high cost of transit/co-location in some countries. I= 'm interested in the caching dynamics.

This pa= rt of the work can eventually be tied back into the GAIA IRTF group's a= reas of interest.

Regards,
Amreesh
=



On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Roni Even <roni.ev= en@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi Le= slie,
This is a good start. I agree with the proposed outcome.
In general we are talking about converging video/multimedia delivery over I= P network (Internet?)=C2=A0 from production to distribution till the end us= er.
We probably need as part of the problem statement=C2=A0 to describe the dif= ferent architectures and=C2=A0 media flow today in order to identify the pr= oblems we want to address.

Thanks
Roni Even

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GGIE [mailto:ggie-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Daigle
> Sent: =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=95 08 =D7=A1=D7=A4=D7=98=D7=9E=D7=91= =D7=A8 2017 23:08
> To: ggie@ietf.org
> Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Following up the discussion in Prague, here=E2=80=99s a first cut at t= rying to capture
> some scoping for our onward discussions:
>
> Video and the IETF
>
> =E2=80=9CVideo=E2=80=9D covers a vast range of technologies and uses, = and its use of Internet
> technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet
> technologies at the same time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Creative uses of technologi= es for
> video, and opportunities for new uses, abound.=C2=A0 None of this will= be realized
> effectively without increased communication between engineers working = in
> different parts of the problem space.
>
> The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issu= es in
> handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols.=C2=A0 The = scope is
> deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of purpose.=
> Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible, appropriat= e
> venues for further discussion are identified.=C2=A0 Work can be done t= o refine
> problem statements for individual work items that are
> proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This forum is appropria= te for
> sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or=
> technologies.
>
> Breadth of topic areas includes:=C2=A0 (end to end) transport, distrib= ution
> and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). > This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and > gateways/gateway performance.
>
> The important outcomes of discussion are:=C2=A0 knowledge sharing and = help in
> framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address > them.
>
>
> Leslie.
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= -------
> Leslie Daigle
> Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises
> ldaigle@thinkingcat.com=
> ------------------------------------------------------------= -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GGIE mailing list
> GGIE@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie _______________________________________________
GGIE mailing list
GGIE@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie



--
=
Amreesh P= hokeer
--001a11c1540669de710558f0e7cf-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 19:36:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116861321DE for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:36:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6hmTb5EvJEHb for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.149.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB83713293A for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048276.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048276.ppops.net-00176a04. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id v8C2X4Ix032088 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:36:53 -0400 Received: from usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([173.213.212.135]) by m0048276.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 2cv97r9pgf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:36:52 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO potemwp00009.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.78.204]) by usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 11 Sep 2017 22:36:51 -0400 Received: from potemwp00031.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.55) by potemwp00033.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:36:49 -0600 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.53) by potemwp00031.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:36:48 -0600 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) by potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.032; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:36:48 -0600 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Roni Even CC: Leslie Daigle , "ggie@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions Thread-Index: AQHTKN4yk55jwnrmjkqbQCBFP3cC/6KvyGuAgADF0Ng= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:36:48 +0000 Message-ID: <98B9A3AB-6DBB-4849-BE24-6F195CCA4F8B@nbcuni.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com>, <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-09-12_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1709120037 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:36:57 -0000 I agree that understanding the different architectures is key, I'm wonderi= ng what the right level of detail maybe, and the format for capturing it al= l. It can get pretty complex quickly, especially with the current legacy m= ix of SDI some have. Do we: 1. Describe the "ideal" world that we think should come about and just keep= the description tightly focused on how it should be? 2. Attempt to document the potentially ugly mix of old and new as the world= evolves? The first has the nice, clean, approach of focusing on how things really sh= ould end up, while the second attempts to capture the reality of the operat= ional transition. Thoughts? =20 I'm leaning towards 1 as it's cleaning and doesn't attempt to boil the ocea= n. Glenn Sent from my iPad > On Sep 11, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Roni Even wrote: >=20 > Hi Leslie, > This is a good start. I agree with the proposed outcome.=20 > In general we are talking about converging video/multimedia delivery over= IP network (Internet?) from production to distribution till the end user. > We probably need as part of the problem statement to describe the differ= ent architectures and media flow today in order to identify the problems w= e want to address. >=20 > Thanks > Roni Even >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: GGIE [mailto:ggie-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Daigle >> Sent: =E9=E5=ED =E5 08 =F1=F4=E8=EE=E1=F8 2017 23:08 >> To: ggie@ietf.org >> Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Following up the discussion in Prague, here=92s a first cut at trying to= capture >> some scoping for our onward discussions: >>=20 >> Video and the IETF >>=20 >> =93Video=94 covers a vast range of technologies and uses, and its use of= Internet >> technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet >> technologies at the same time. Creative uses of technologies for >> video, and opportunities for new uses, abound. None of this will be rea= lized >> effectively without increased communication between engineers working in >> different parts of the problem space. >>=20 >> The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issues= in >> handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. The scope i= s >> deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of purpose. >> Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible, appropriate >> venues for further discussion are identified. Work can be done to refin= e >> problem statements for individual work items that are >> proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is appropriate for >> sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or >> technologies. >>=20 >> Breadth of topic areas includes: (end to end) transport, distribution >> and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). >> This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and >> gateways/gateway performance. >>=20 >> The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help in >> framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address >> them. >>=20 >>=20 >> Leslie. >>=20 >> -- >>=20 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Leslie Daigle >> Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises >> ldaigle@thinkingcat.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> GGIE mailing list >> GGIE@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie From nobody Mon Sep 11 19:40:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1DA51321DE for ; 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Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:40:11 -0600 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Amreesh Phokeer CC: Roni Even , "ggie@ietf.org" , "Leslie Daigle" Thread-Topic: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions Thread-Index: AQHTKN4yk55jwnrmjkqbQCBFP3cC/6KvyGuAgADZ+wD//+zGSA== Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:40:11 +0000 Message-ID: <49F5BD55-FAA8-4688-8D35-17EEF34298FF@nbcuni.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_49F5BD55FAA846888D3517EEF34298FFnbcunicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-09-12_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1709120039 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:40:19 -0000 --_000_49F5BD55FAA846888D3517EEF34298FFnbcunicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Amreesh, The low resourced networks are an interesting problem. Would it be fair to= equate them to networks that are very highly congested and have depleted r= esources due to high competition? Or is that potentially ignoring unique pr= oblems of the low resourced networks? Glenn Sent from my iPad On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Amreesh Phokeer > wrote: Hi Leslie, I'm Amreesh from UCT, South Africa. I agree with the proposed outcome as we= ll. I'd be interested in video content delivery in low-resourced networks espec= ially in developing countries. Actually at a recent Internet Peering Forum = in Africa, content providers mentioned about a lack of demand to deploy cac= hes because of a relatively high cost of transit/co-location in some countr= ies. I'm interested in the caching dynamics. This part of the work can eventually be tied back into the GAIA IRTF group'= s areas of interest. Regards, Amreesh On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Roni Even > wrote: Hi Leslie, This is a good start. I agree with the proposed outcome. In general we are talking about converging video/multimedia delivery over I= P network (Internet?) from production to distribution till the end user. We probably need as part of the problem statement to describe the differen= t architectures and media flow today in order to identify the problems we = want to address. Thanks Roni Even > -----Original Message----- > From: GGIE [mailto:ggie-bounces@ietf.org] O= n Behalf Of Leslie Daigle > Sent: ??? ? 08 ?????? 2017 23:08 > To: ggie@ietf.org > Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions > > > Hi, > > Following up the discussion in Prague, here's a first cut at trying to ca= pture > some scoping for our onward discussions: > > Video and the IETF > > "Video" covers a vast range of technologies and uses, and its use of Inte= rnet > technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet > technologies at the same time. Creative uses of technologies for > video, and opportunities for new uses, abound. None of this will be real= ized > effectively without increased communication between engineers working in > different parts of the problem space. > > The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issues = in > handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. The scope is > deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of purpose. > Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible, appropriate > venues for further discussion are identified. Work can be done to refine > problem statements for individual work items that are > proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is appropriate for > sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or > technologies. > > Breadth of topic areas includes: (end to end) transport, distribution > and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). > This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and > gateways/gateway performance. > > The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help in > framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address > them. > > > Leslie. > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie _______________________________________________ GGIE mailing list GGIE@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie -- Amreesh Phokeer _______________________________________________ GGIE mailing list GGIE@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie --_000_49F5BD55FAA846888D3517EEF34298FFnbcunicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Amreesh,

The low resourced networks are an interestin= g problem.  Would it be fair to equate them to networks that are very = highly congested and have depleted resources due to high competition? Or is= that potentially ignoring unique problems of the low resourced networks?

Glenn 

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Amreesh Phokeer <amreesh.phokeer@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Leslie,

I'm Amreesh from UCT, South Africa. I agree with the proposed outcome = as well.
I'd be interested in video content delivery in low-resourced networks = especially in developing countries. Actually at a recent Internet Peering F= orum in Africa, content providers mentioned about a lack of demand to deplo= y caches because of a relatively high cost of transit/co-location in some countries. I'm interested in the = caching dynamics.

This part of the work can eventually be tied back into the GAIA IRTF g= roup's areas of interest.

Regards,
Amreesh



On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Roni Even <roni.even@hua= wei.com> wrote:
Hi Leslie,
This is a good start. I agree with the proposed outcome.
In general we are talking about converging video/multimedia delivery over I= P network (Internet?)  from production to distribution till the end us= er.
We probably need as part of the problem statement  to describe the dif= ferent architectures and  media flow today in order to identify the pr= oblems we want to address.

Thanks
Roni Even

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GGIE [mailto:ggie-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Daigle
> Sent: יום ו 08 ספט–= 2;בר 2017 23:08
> To: ggie@ietf.org
> Subject: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Following up the discussion in Prague, here’s a first cut at try= ing to capture
> some scoping for our onward discussions:
>
> Video and the IETF
>
> “Video” covers a vast range of technologies and uses, and = its use of Internet
> technologies is changing traditional industries and Internet
> technologies at the same time.   Creative uses of technologi= es for
> video, and opportunities for new uses, abound.  None of this will= be realized
> effectively without increased communication between engineers working = in
> different parts of the problem space.
>
> The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issu= es in
> handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols.  The = scope is
> deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms of purpose.=
> Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible, appropriat= e
> venues for further discussion are identified.  Work can be done t= o refine
> problem statements for individual work items that are
> proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere.   This forum is appropria= te for
> sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or=
> technologies.
>
> Breadth of topic areas includes:  (end to end) transport, distrib= ution
> and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). > This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and > gateways/gateway performance.
>
> The important outcomes of discussion are:  knowledge sharing and = help in
> framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address > them.
>
>
> Leslie.
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= -------
> Leslie Daigle
> Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises
> ldaigle@thinkingcat.com=
> ------------------------------------------------------------= -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> GGIE mailing list
> GGIE@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie
_______________________________________________
GGIE mailing list
GGIE@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie



--
Amreesh P= hokeer
_______________________________________________
GGIE mailing list
GGIE@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie
--_000_49F5BD55FAA846888D3517EEF34298FFnbcunicom_-- From nobody Tue Sep 12 01:37:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C9F1332E1 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:37:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1g2WluWrnMs2 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x233.google.com (mail-it0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D385B133245 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x233.google.com with SMTP id g142so15126461ita.0 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:37:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DsqyUnNANjxlDgq8QbDUHDUY2g0iVM+Mh8xtfvYAxDE=; b=LeS7cqoIvUCAvcD9hOV1NBLdNLVSdOtAcLvLbILTAaP6kQWgdxCzKtpXfmbRUk0EeI +XGMCiVsUulQpr5wrNFoWCuHt22fqaW9oj0zF9hx+lOm4jRqdGSRupGmBktEtGtbJ/HD FtuMgDJg70IerzYkXrefSl9Ovb7TsXSYziEdfOyhC9jme174SQuvSOYJXrOfYlve7/RS WP5JB6d89HI8lyLWo//ZSxWfkzrAPLB+5lWof7WNPQKqtFj99zlt+9hBp6NyVG3k9tYB TWXX88z4+P15mPiMPcoEdynLOfs3nK375LUDJjLoIwYtAG3zrjKUFmwOC6DcdN7+gxKU c/MA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DsqyUnNANjxlDgq8QbDUHDUY2g0iVM+Mh8xtfvYAxDE=; b=aevc9nQgDQxTHQPxxFHhZZNw5SjAm6bDZKjEONe0Td6x5858lfu506Q53GJdmx3Gd8 XxBSf6av6B1rWGm5NF6bvakR1UjWGgwLs5hqK6BsAK9fZ+cH1Vh3n6YYb7diXQoqmaAn JNewqxnVxYTg7pCMqSwpMaHVLS8guyU7sSis4dGqgoX0DOXli9YqKcIisuNRu/7NXLAE WI+TPWWdR/EH7FZvW3xmcf0DE3RQ6881ZdiKa6Ic7isMCzPvEXQoWPoZrIj2bH/BX31z 85pn0JvVasnADarWLv5HxSk0HCuH5XyKeRQSvd4kvUoEL0H+G4cptKtpLwh0uioNiEj+ P+QA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgZoeIZAqp5zS0fxV0dDEnfCTq6LLpD+uDykn5PGfR5xv+QVTq+ wscaWi/N4uDQKj4ZrBy/fb6TYQqUg69UfXE5j0g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7iMVvL0F5jqsdn5m+2U7ZLYmE+s78LKBMkPGObeSfluV/Y3of7GSNPoEmtQ5MYYU0YYvHD44xMdXXVS04ZA0I= X-Received: by 10.36.225.202 with SMTP id n193mr17598110ith.106.1505205453190; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:37:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.28.10 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 01:36:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49F5BD55-FAA8-4688-8D35-17EEF34298FF@nbcuni.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD8026C6@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <49F5BD55-FAA8-4688-8D35-17EEF34298FF@nbcuni.com> From: Amreesh Phokeer Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:36:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" Cc: Roni Even , "ggie@ietf.org" , Leslie Daigle Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19dc8859fb890558f9f4b2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 08:37:35 -0000 --94eb2c19dc8859fb890558f9f4b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Glenn, The low resourced networks are an interesting problem. Would it be fair to > equate them to networks that are very highly congested and have depleted > resources due to high competition? Or is that potentially ignoring unique > problems of the low resourced networks? > I think there are cross-cutting aspects, low-resourced networks (in terms of bandwidth) can easily get congested. Other aspects to consider is low link quality for e.g. high delay, jitter and packet loss. We can think of an IoT network also being "low-resourced". In the realm of community networks for e.g. we go with the premise that networks are highly congested, has low bandwidth capacity and high jitter/packet loss especially many of them are using expensive VSAT links. Regards, Amreesh --94eb2c19dc8859fb890558f9f4b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenn,

The low resourced networks a= re an interesting problem.=C2=A0 Would it be fair to equate them to network= s that are very highly congested and have depleted resources due to high co= mpetition? Or is that potentially ignoring unique problems of the low resourced networks?

I think there are cross-cutting aspects, low-resourced networks (in terms = of bandwidth) can easily get congested. Other aspects to consider is low li= nk quality for e.g. high delay, jitter and packet loss.
We can th= ink of an IoT network also being "low-resourced". In the realm of= community networks for e.g. we go with the premise that networks are highl= y congested, has low bandwidth capacity and high jitter/packet loss especia= lly many of them are using expensive VSAT links.

R= egards,
Amreesh

--94eb2c19dc8859fb890558f9f4b2-- From nobody Thu Sep 14 15:53:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ggie@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812DB1326DF for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:53:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v4Fmd1J-njij for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFFF21323B8 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D264A00763B; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=y 8L/46H5PvL8b2yWbycUKDZXh+o=; b=B9HrDXt0+Nh10RrHx9cJTQpwOXkqGlXPC TELiRjC3CLv2hzW4ss7JFRV5+tc7iIfb5CN4DjMUp8vmwQsFsJhsdE91V1JI4IYG Fuz8yobEixJ0m9GshL+bZg2rak7zQ2NgaMkQ8mVfIW1FwGGEIJkhzl/HGSNdXdrX DzUh3SqagQ= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: leslie@oceanpurl.net) by homiemail-a26.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D870FA00762E; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Leslie Daigle" To: ggie@ietf.org Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 18:53:42 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> References: <63DC1DC1-D7C9-4D8C-9531-8F5B4E8F2E90@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [GGIE] Scoping our discussions X-BeenThere: ggie@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discuss IETF-related items surfaced in the W3C GGIE Task Force List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:53:47 -0000 Thanks, all, for the comments so far. I=E2=80=99ve attempted to capture = them=20 in the updated text below. One off-list comment suggested that this=20 clarify it=E2=80=99s not talking about the video protocols themselves (e.= g.,=20 WebRTC), so much as the use of these protocols for the handling of video=20 content. Some of the comments seemed to hint at framing a group to do specific=20 bits of work. I think that=E2=80=99s beyond the scope of what has been=20 discussed to date. I.e., we=E2=80=99ve been focused on having a venue to= =20 discuss the broad range of issues that need solving, with a view to=20 figure out what other forum is appropriate to do the actual work. If people think that=E2=80=99s not the right focus, we should discuss. Updated: Video Content Handling and the IETF =E2=80=9CVideo content handling=E2=80=9D (delivery, management, etc) ove= r IP=20 networks, from production to distribution till the end user, covers a=20 vast range of technologies and uses. Its use of Internet technologies=20 is changing traditional industries and Internet technologies at the same=20 time. Creative uses of technologies for video content handling, and=20 opportunities for new uses, abound. None of this will be realized=20 effectively without increased communication between engineers working in=20 different parts of the problem space. The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current issues=20 in handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. The scope is deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in terms=20 of purpose. Problems are identified and discussed, and, where possible,=20 appropriate venues for further discussion are identified. Work can be=20 done to refine problem statements for individual work items that are=20 proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is appropriate for=20 sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to develop protocols or=20 technologies. Breadth of topic areas includes: . (end to end) transport, distribution and production of video, across=20 multiple (potential) architectures, . the existing architectures . working within low-resourced networks. This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and=20 gateways/gateway performance. The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help in=20 framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to address=20 them. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- On 8 Sep 2017, at 16:07, Leslie Daigle wrote: > Hi, > > Following up the discussion in Prague, here=E2=80=99s a first cut at tr= ying=20 > to capture some scoping for our onward discussions: > > Video and the IETF > > =E2=80=9CVideo=E2=80=9D covers a vast range of technologies and uses, a= nd its use=20 > of Internet technologies is changing traditional industries and=20 > Internet technologies at the same time. Creative uses of=20 > technologies for video, and opportunities for new uses, abound. None=20 > of this will be realized effectively without increased communication=20 > between engineers working in different parts of the problem space. > > The purpose of the group is to provide a forum to discuss current=20 > issues in handling video on the Internet and with Internet protocols. =20 > The scope is deliberately broad in topics covered, and shallow in=20 > terms of purpose. Problems are identified and discussed, and, where=20 > possible, appropriate venues for further discussion are identified. =20 > Work can be done to refine problem statements for individual work=20 > items that are proposed in IETF WGs or elsewhere. This forum is=20 > appropriate for sharing and discussing, but it is not expected to=20 > develop protocols or technologies. > > Breadth of topic areas includes: (end to end) transport, distribution=20 > and production of video, across multiple (potential) architectures). =20 > This includes signaling, MPEG multimedia, subtitles, containers and=20 > gateways/gateway performance. > > The important outcomes of discussion are: knowledge sharing and help=20 > in framing problem statements and finding appropriate venues to=20 > address them. > > > Leslie. > > --=20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > GGIE mailing list > GGIE@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie