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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 22:16:49 -0000 Thanks to the project champions for bringing this to the Hackathon.=20 Please see questions inline. > On Feb 25, 2022, at 3:36 AM, Christian Esteve Rothenberg wrote: >=20 > Nice initiative! >=20 > I always felt that hving reference client and server implementations > for ALTO would boost interest and adoption of the protocol. >=20 > I will present the hackathon topics to my students but unfortunately > we do not have any chance to participate on-site in this edition. >=20 > In the past we have done some ALTO research and produced some open > source work that may be of interest: >=20 > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/alto-based-broker-assisted-mdo > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/ALTO-as-a-Service I had a quick look at these but the licensing was not clear. It is mentione= d that they are open source, but I could not find a license file.=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Christian >=20 > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 9:58 AM wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Reinaldo and all, >>=20 >>=20 >> There are some projects where the hackathon can be based on. If you are = developing something on top of these projects, I would recommend using the = same or compatible licenses. >>=20 >>=20 >> https://github.com/openalto/sextant (EPL v1.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >>=20 >> https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet (Apache v2.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >>=20 >> https://github.com/rucio/rucio (Apache v2) This one is clear.=20 Thanks, Charles >>=20 >>=20 >> Best, >>=20 >> Kai >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Messages----- >> From:"Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" >> Sent Time:2022-02-24 05:39:02 (Thursday) >> To: "Muhammad Usman Bashir" , "Jordi Ros Giralt= " >> Cc: "alto-chairs@ietf.org" , "alto@ietf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [alto] [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and parti= cipation >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Will the stack be developed from scratch or there is something? If there= is something what is the proposed license? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: hackathon on behalf of Muhammad Usman= Bashir >> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:30 PM >> To: Jordi Ros Giralt >> Cc: alto-chairs@ietf.org , alto@ietf.org , hackathon@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participatio= n >>=20 >> I am interested in the project. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jordi Ros Giralt = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source code bas= e for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we plan t= o do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project description= in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of com= panies and universities participating in the ALTO WG as well as students fr= om Yale University and Sichuan University. If anyone is interested in parti= cipating, please let me know by replying to this note. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thank you. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Jordi >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> alto mailing list >> alto@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe From nobody Thu Mar 3 14:35:53 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2373A0958; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 14:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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boundary="_000_BN0PR02MB819032E71436B954294201DFF6049BN0PR02MB8190namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: qti.qualcomm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN0PR02MB8190.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3bba3c55-9677-458f-9bf4-08d9fd661f33 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Mar 2022 22:35:30.0494 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98e9ba89-e1a1-4e38-9007-8bdabc25de1d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6KCSHZuP9scrO2Pipp1L/2phMkLHIdH/YSV61NhfzO6RK0O7XDuiuKCoicWAfhRXQ1w0qhX9+Dvh1XqPVGRtvg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR02MB6358 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participation X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 22:35:41 -0000 --_000_BN0PR02MB819032E71436B954294201DFF6049BN0PR02MB8190namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will let Kai respond about the Sextant license. As for the G2-Mininet license, it is described in the provided repo, in the= COPYING file: https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet/blob/master/COPY= ING Thank you, Jordi ________________________________ From: hackathon on behalf of Charles Eckel (ec= kelcu) Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 23:15 To: Christian Esteve Rothenberg Cc: repenno=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org ; alto@ietf.org ; hackathon@ietf.org ; Muhammad Usman Bashir ; Kai Gao ; alto-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and particip= ation WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of = any links or attachments, and do not enable macros. Thanks to the project champions for bringing this to the Hackathon. Please see questions inline. > On Feb 25, 2022, at 3:36 AM, Christian Esteve Rothenberg wrote: > > Nice initiative! > > I always felt that hving reference client and server implementations > for ALTO would boost interest and adoption of the protocol. > > I will present the hackathon topics to my students but unfortunately > we do not have any chance to participate on-site in this edition. > > In the past we have done some ALTO research and produced some open > source work that may be of interest: > > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/alto-based-broker-assisted-mdo > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/ALTO-as-a-Service I had a quick look at these but the licensing was not clear. It is mentione= d that they are open source, but I could not find a license file. > > Thanks, > Christian > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 9:58 AM wrote: >> >> Hi Reinaldo and all, >> >> >> There are some projects where the hackathon can be based on. If you are = developing something on top of these projects, I would recommend using the = same or compatible licenses. >> >> >> https://github.com/openalto/sextant (EPL v1.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >> >> https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet (Apache v2.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >> >> https://github.com/rucio/rucio (Apache v2) This one is clear. Thanks, Charles >> >> >> Best, >> >> Kai >> >> >> -----Original Messages----- >> From:"Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" >> Sent Time:2022-02-24 05:39:02 (Thursday) >> To: "Muhammad Usman Bashir" , "Jordi Ros Giralt= " >> Cc: "alto-chairs@ietf.org" , "alto@ietf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [alto] [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and parti= cipation >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> Will the stack be developed from scratch or there is something? If there= is something what is the proposed license? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> From: hackathon on behalf of Muhammad Usman= Bashir >> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:30 PM >> To: Jordi Ros Giralt >> Cc: alto-chairs@ietf.org , alto@ietf.org , hackathon@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participatio= n >> >> I am interested in the project. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jordi Ros Giralt = wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source code bas= e for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we plan t= o do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project description= in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of com= panies and universities participating in the ALTO WG as well as students fr= om Yale University and Sichuan University. If anyone is interested in parti= cipating, please let me know by replying to this note. >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> Jordi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> alto mailing list >> alto@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe --_000_BN0PR02MB819032E71436B954294201DFF6049BN0PR02MB8190namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I will let Kai respond about the Sextant license.

As for the G2-Mininet license, it is described in the provided repo, in the= COPYING file: https://github.com/reservo= irlabs/g2-mininet/blob/master/COPYING 

Thank you,
Jordi

From: hackathon <hackath= on-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu=3D= 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 23:15
To: Christian Esteve Rothenberg <chesteve@dca.fee.unicamp.br><= br> Cc: repenno=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org <repenno=3D40cisco.com@d= marc.ietf.org>; alto@ietf.org <alto@ietf.org>; hackathon@ietf.org = <hackathon@ietf.org>; Muhammad Usman Bashir <mail2ch.usman@gmail.c= om>; Kai Gao <kaigao@scu.edu.cn>; alto-chairs@ietf.org <alto-ch= airs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and p= articipation
 
WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qua= lcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros= .

Thanks to the project champions for bringing this to the Hackathon.
Please see questions inline.

> On Feb 25, 2022, at 3:36 AM, Christian Esteve Rothenberg <chesteve@= dca.fee.unicamp.br> wrote:
>
> Nice initiative!
>
> I always felt that hving reference client and server implementations > for ALTO would boost interest and adoption of the protocol.
>
> I will present the hackathon topics to my students but unfortunately > we do not have any chance to participate on-site in this edition.
>
> In the past we have done some ALTO research and produced some open
> source work that may be of interest:
>
> https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/alto-based-broker-assisted-mdo=
> https:= //github.com/intrig-unicamp/ALTO-as-a-Service

I had a quick look at these but the licensing was not clear. It is mentione= d that they are open source, but I could not find a license file.

>
> Thanks,
> Christian
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 9:58 AM <kaigao@scu.edu.cn> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Reinaldo and all,
>>
>>
>> There are some projects where the hackathon can be based on. If yo= u are developing something on top of these projects, I would recommend usin= g the same or compatible licenses.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com= /openalto/sextant  (EPL v1.0)

I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d.

>>
>> https://gi= thub.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet (Apache v2.0)

I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d.

>>
>> https://github.com/ruci= o/rucio (Apache v2)

This one is clear.

Thanks,
Charles

>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Kai
>>
>>
>> -----Original Messages-----
>> From:"Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> Sent Time:2022-02-24 05:39:02 (Thursday)
>> To: "Muhammad Usman Bashir" <mail2ch.usman@gmail.com&= gt;, "Jordi Ros Giralt" <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
>> Cc: "alto-chairs@ietf.org" <alto-chairs@ietf.org>,= "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>, "hackathon@ietf.org&= quot; <hackathon@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [alto] [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and= participation
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> Will the stack be developed from scratch or there is something? If= there is something what is the proposed license?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mu= hammad Usman Bashir <mail2ch.usman@gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:30 PM
>> To: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
>> Cc: alto-chairs@ietf.org <alto-chairs@ietf.org>, alto@ietf.o= rg <alto@ietf.org>, hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and partic= ipation
>>
>> I am interested in the project.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qual= comm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source co= de base for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we = plan to do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project descr= iption in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of companies and universities participatin= g in the ALTO WG as well as students from Yale University and Sichuan Unive= rsity. If anyone is interested in participating, please let me know by repl= ying to this note.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hackathon mailing list
>> hackathon@ietf.org
>> https:= //www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe=
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> alto mailing list
>> alto@ietf.org
>> https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
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boundary="_000_BY5PR11MB438876BD1DB5411883FE69E4AD049BY5PR11MB4388namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4388.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5c1f8ced-2b6b-435a-c187-08d9fd6c2c5e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Mar 2022 23:18:49.1401 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 3FSRbnzP1UsdSDt8HbePU/LukOtRpkFAfPXcupltVM4aUlMItjEMpNC2+LwO8KLg4WBmZGvCNHactC/fSqMpQQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1295 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xbe-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participation X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 23:19:01 -0000 --_000_BY5PR11MB438876BD1DB5411883FE69E4AD049BY5PR11MB4388namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Folks, I looked at linkage below. Licensing and tech issues apart, I am always oka= y with leveraging something that is out there with running code. Alternatively, we apply the lessons learned from the projects that exists a= nd start a new codebase. There are pros and cons with both, and I am sure the group will reach a dec= ision. Regards -RP From: Jordi Ros Giralt Date: Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 2:36 PM To: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) , Christian Esteve Rothenber= g Cc: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) , alto@ietf.org , hackathon@ietf.org , Muhammad Usman Bashir , Kai Gao , alto-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and particip= ation I will let Kai respond about the Sextant license. As for the G2-Mininet license, it is described in the provided repo, in the= COPYING file: https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet/blob/master/COPY= ING Thank you, Jordi ________________________________ From: hackathon on behalf of Charles Eckel (ec= kelcu) Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 23:15 To: Christian Esteve Rothenberg Cc: repenno=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org ; alto@ietf.org ; hackathon@ietf.org ; Muhammad Usman Bashir ; Kai Gao ; alto-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and particip= ation WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of = any links or attachments, and do not enable macros. Thanks to the project champions for bringing this to the Hackathon. Please see questions inline. > On Feb 25, 2022, at 3:36 AM, Christian Esteve Rothenberg wrote: > > Nice initiative! > > I always felt that hving reference client and server implementations > for ALTO would boost interest and adoption of the protocol. > > I will present the hackathon topics to my students but unfortunately > we do not have any chance to participate on-site in this edition. > > In the past we have done some ALTO research and produced some open > source work that may be of interest: > > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/alto-based-broker-assisted-mdo > https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/ALTO-as-a-Service I had a quick look at these but the licensing was not clear. It is mentione= d that they are open source, but I could not find a license file. > > Thanks, > Christian > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 9:58 AM wrote: >> >> Hi Reinaldo and all, >> >> >> There are some projects where the hackathon can be based on. If you are = developing something on top of these projects, I would recommend using the = same or compatible licenses. >> >> >> https://github.com/openalto/sextant (EPL v1.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >> >> https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet (Apache v2.0) I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d. >> >> https://github.com/rucio/rucio (Apache v2) This one is clear. Thanks, Charles >> >> >> Best, >> >> Kai >> >> >> -----Original Messages----- >> From:"Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" >> Sent Time:2022-02-24 05:39:02 (Thursday) >> To: "Muhammad Usman Bashir" , "Jordi Ros Giralt= " >> Cc: "alto-chairs@ietf.org" , "alto@ietf.org" , "hackathon@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [alto] [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and parti= cipation >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> Will the stack be developed from scratch or there is something? If there= is something what is the proposed license? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> From: hackathon on behalf of Muhammad Usman= Bashir >> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:30 PM >> To: Jordi Ros Giralt >> Cc: alto-chairs@ietf.org , alto@ietf.org , hackathon@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participatio= n >> >> I am interested in the project. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jordi Ros Giralt = wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source code bas= e for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we plan t= o do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project description= in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of com= panies and universities participating in the ALTO WG as well as students fr= om Yale University and Sichuan University. If anyone is interested in parti= cipating, please let me know by replying to this note. >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> Jordi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> alto mailing list >> alto@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe --_000_BY5PR11MB438876BD1DB5411883FE69E4AD049BY5PR11MB4388namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Folks,<= /o:p>

 

I looked at linkage= below. Licensing and tech issues apart, I am always okay with leveraging s= omething that is out there with running code.

 

Alternatively, we a= pply the lessons learned from the projects that exists and start a new code= base.  

 

There are pros and = cons with both, and I am sure the group will reach a decision.

 

Regards<= /span>

 

-RP

 

From: Jordi Ros Giralt &l= t;jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 2:36 PM
To: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com>, Christian Est= eve Rothenberg <chesteve@dca.fee.unicamp.br>
Cc: Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>, alto@ietf.or= g <alto@ietf.org>, hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>, Muh= ammad Usman Bashir <mail2ch.usman@gmail.com>, Kai Gao <kaigao@scu.= edu.cn>, alto-chairs@ietf.org <alto-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and p= articipation

I will = let Kai respond about the Sextant license.

&n= bsp;

As for = the G2-Mininet license, it is described in the provided repo, in the COPYIN= G file: https://github.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet/blob/master/COPYI= NG 

&n= bsp;

Thank y= ou,

Jordi

&n= bsp;

From= : hackathon <hac= kathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelc= u=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 23:15
To: Christian Esteve Rothenberg <chesteve@dca.fee.unicamp.br><= br> Cc: repenno=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org <repenno=3D40cisco.com@d= marc.ietf.org>; alto@ietf.org <alto@ietf.org>; hackathon@ietf.org = <hackathon@ietf.org>; Muhammad Usman Bashir <mail2ch.usman@gmail.c= om>; Kai Gao <kaigao@scu.edu.cn>; alto-chairs@ietf.org <alto-ch= airs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] [alto] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and p= articipation

 

WARNING: This email= originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attach= ments, and do not enable macros.

Thanks to the project champions for bringing this to the Hackathon.
Please see questions inline.

> On Feb 25, 2022, at 3:36 AM, Christian Esteve Rothenberg <chesteve@= dca.fee.unicamp.br> wrote:
>
> Nice initiative!
>
> I always felt that hving reference client and server implementations > for ALTO would boost interest and adoption of the protocol.
>
> I will present the hackathon topics to my students but unfortunately > we do not have any chance to participate on-site in this edition.
>
> In the past we have done some ALTO research and produced some open
> source work that may be of interest:
>
> https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/alto-based-broker-assisted-mdo=
> https:= //github.com/intrig-unicamp/ALTO-as-a-Service

I had a quick look at these but the licensing was not clear. It is mentione= d that they are open source, but I could not find a license file.

>
> Thanks,
> Christian
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 9:58 AM <kaigao@scu.edu.cn> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Reinaldo and all,
>>
>>
>> There are some projects where the hackathon can be based on. If yo= u are developing something on top of these projects, I would recommend usin= g the same or compatible licenses.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com= /openalto/sextant  (EPL v1.0)

I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d.

>>
>> https://gi= thub.com/reservoirlabs/g2-mininet (Apache v2.0)

I could not find the license for this one either. Sorry if I missed it. It = would be good to add a license file, or make the existing one easier to fin= d.

>>
>> https://github.com/ruci= o/rucio (Apache v2)

This one is clear.

Thanks,
Charles

>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Kai
>>
>>
>> -----Original Messages-----
>> From:"Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> Sent Time:2022-02-24 05:39:02 (Thursday)
>> To: "Muhammad Usman Bashir" <mail2ch.usman@gmail.com&= gt;, "Jordi Ros Giralt" <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
>> Cc: "alto-chairs@ietf.org" <alto-chairs@ietf.org>,= "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>, "hackathon@ietf.org&= quot; <hackathon@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [alto] [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and= participation
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> Will the stack be developed from scratch or there is something? If= there is something what is the proposed license?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mu= hammad Usman Bashir <mail2ch.usman@gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:30 PM
>> To: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
>> Cc: alto-chairs@ietf.org <alto-chairs@ietf.org>, alto@ietf.o= rg <alto@ietf.org>, hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and partic= ipation
>>
>> I am interested in the project.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qual= comm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source co= de base for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we = plan to do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project descr= iption in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of companies and universities participatin= g in the ALTO WG as well as students from Yale University and Sichuan Unive= rsity. If anyone is interested in participating, please let me know by repl= ying to this note.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> hackathon mailing list
>> hackathon@ietf.org
>> https:= //www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe=
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> alto mailing list
>> alto@ietf.org
>> https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

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62a87e28-a787-4638-f0b8-08da02b97075 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Mar 2022 17:14:30.4548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98e9ba89-e1a1-4e38-9007-8bdabc25de1d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jgM2ZGOVotmJF9tVe5ja7R0CgfEfUpPER/ezqFMXdODviCyqsb2DAeOGpS+NwVmqToXEfF9myWnMrcBUL75wVg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR02MB2233 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participation X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 17:14:40 -0000 --_000_BN0PR02MB819041AAA2DA94461135906DF60B9BN0PR02MB8190namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you everyone who have responded to my message below with interest in = participating in the Hackathon as part of the ALTO WG. To those of you who would like to participate, we are going to do a kick-of= f meeting next Wednesday 9am EST. I will be sending an invite, but just in = case I miss anyone, here are the coordinates: what: IETF Hackathon 113 ALTO project kickoff meeting when: Wed March 16, 9am EST where: Click here to join the meeting The IETF ALTO WG has been working these past weeks to prepare for the hacka= thon. This is the repo where we track the work: https://github.com/openalto/ietf-= hackathon And this is the project dashboard: https://github.com/orgs/openalto/project= s/1/views/1?groupedBy%5BcolumnId%5D=3D2113975 We will be going through this during the kick-off. Thank you and we look forward to it! Jordi ________________________________ From: Jordi Ros Giralt Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 15:04 To: hackathon@ietf.org Cc: alto@ietf.org ; alto-chairs@ietf.org Subject: IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participation Hi all, The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source code base f= or the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we plan to d= o some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project description in= the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team includes a small community of companies and universi= ties participating in the ALTO WG as well as students from Yale University = and Sichuan University. If anyone is interested in participating, please le= t me know by replying to this note. Thank you. Jordi --_000_BN0PR02MB819041AAA2DA94461135906DF60B9BN0PR02MB8190namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you everyone who have responded to my message b= elow with interest in participating in the Hackathon as part of the ALTO WG= .

To those of you who would like to participate, we are goin= g to do a kick-off meeting next Wednesday 9am EST. I will be sending an inv= ite, but just in case I miss anyone, here are the coordinates:

what: IETF Hack= athon 113 ALTO project kickoff meeting
when: Wed March= 16, 9am EST

The IETF ALTO WG has been working these past weeks to prepare for the hacka= thon. 

This is the repo where we track the work: https://github.com/o= penalto/ietf-hackathon

We will be going through this during the kick-off.

Thank you and we look forward to it!

Jordi




From: Jordi Ros Giralt
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 15:04
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: alto@ietf.org <alto@ietf.org>; alto-chairs@ietf.org <al= to-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: IETF ALTO WG hackathon project and participation
 
Hi all,

The ALTO WG is starting an initiative to develop an open-source code b= ase for the ALTO standard. During the upcomming IETF 113 Hackathon, we plan= to do some initial work and demonstrations (see the ALTO project description in the Hackathon Wiki). Our current team inclu= des a small community of companies and universities participating in the AL= TO WG as well as students from Yale University and Sichuan University. If a= nyone is interested in participating, please let me know by replying to this note.

Thank you.

Jordi
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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d7efc937-805b-4cf2-917b-08da07848b3f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Mar 2022 19:38:27.8060 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: q2Ta+Szy6Kw+hrCnowlke8RJwlTSnzDYLjPE9XiuBQIfORsPe6PWf3yOTkxwGLtAUO8KlV7TeoFLpvIwTz9eJA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR11MB4183 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.227.251, xfe-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 19:38:44 -0000 Hi Everyone, It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. = This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup. Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the wik= i: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you soo= n. 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 01:47:45 -0000 --000000000000cfbc3405da745483 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Charles and Barry, Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea. I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from this Wednesday to this Friday in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busan Songdo Beach). We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this Saturday and this Sunday remotely, and also present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely. Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPWAVE & BMWG) to let other people join our hackathon project remotely: -------------------------------------------- - Meeting Link: https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=me8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95 - Meeting Number: 2517 188 2655 - Password: ietf113hackathon -------------------------------------------- I attach our photos to show our activity. The main members are professors, researchers, and students from Sungkyunkwan University, Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National University in South Korea. Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hackathon projects. IETFers interested in those hackathon projects, please contact me and Prof. Kim by pauljeong@skku.edu and younghak@ssu.ac.kr . Thanks for your coordination. Best Regards, Paul -- =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department Head Department of Computer Science and Engineering Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-1.jpg IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-2.jpg IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-3.jpg IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-4.jpg IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-5.jpg IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-6.jpg On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. > If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. > This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup. > > Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the > wiki: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon > > Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you > soon. > > Cheers, > Charles > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe > --000000000000cfbc3405da745483 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charles and Barry,
Let me announce our IETF-113 Hac= kathon Teams in Korea.
I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams ar= e working from this Wednesday to this Friday
in an on-site worksh= op in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busan Songdo Beach).

We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this=C2= =A0Saturday and this Sunday remotely, and also
present our progre= ss in the hackathon projects remotely.

Here is the= WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPWAVE & BMWG)<= /div>
to let other people join our hackathon project remotely:
--------------------------------------------
- Meeting Link= :
https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-= ict/j.php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95

- Meeting Nu= mber:
2517 188 2655

- Password:
ietf113hackathon
--------------------------------------------

I at= tach our photos to show our activity.
The main members are profes= sors, researchers, and students from Sungkyunkwan University,=C2=A0
Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National U= niversity in South Korea.

Prof. Younghan Kim and I= are the co-champions for these hackathon projects.

IETFers=C2=A0interested in those hackathon projects,
please con= tact me and Prof. Kim by=C2=A0pauljeo= ng@skku.edu and younghak@ssu.ac.k= r.

Thanks for your coordination.
Best Regards,
Paul
--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department Head
Department of Computer Science and = Engineering
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email:= =C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu,=C2=A0jaehoon.paul@gmail.com
Personal Homepage= :=C2=A0http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
=

<= div class=3D"gmail_chip gmail_drive_chip" style=3D"width:396px;height:18px;= max-height:18px;background-color:#f5f5f5;padding:5px;color:#222;font-family= :arial;font-style:normal;font-weight:bold;font-size:13px;border:1px solid #= ddd;line-height:1">=C2=A0IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-202= 2-03-17-1.jpg
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On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 = AM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
=
Hi Everyone,

It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. = This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup.

Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the wik= i:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/w= iki/113hackathon

Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you soo= n.

Cheers,
Charles
_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe
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boundary="_000_56847920A4814BF4A34D2909F66FDE65ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c8e0f159-e367-4ae0-2d03-08da08c2eb3a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Mar 2022 09:37:28.8076 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: tvganuiglHxITlzcxxlRhEjdWmlvolv75xSZwo9BQhQNIpU9oddvqoAPGijJikZedZ9W1jhYzDgCJd3HmVz58w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR11MB3151 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.227.249, xfe-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 03:34:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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Cg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KQ2hhcmxlcw0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCmhhY2thdGhvbiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCmhhY2thdGhvbkBpZXRmLm9yZzxt YWlsdG86aGFja2F0aG9uQGlldGYub3JnPg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9oYWNrYXRob24NClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlOiBtYWlsdG86aGFja2F0aG9uLXJlcXVlc3RA aWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOmhhY2thdGhvbi1yZXF1ZXN0QGlldGYub3JnPj9zdWJqZWN0PXVuc3Vi c2NyaWJlDQoNCg== --_000_56847920A4814BF4A34D2909F66FDE65ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul,

Thanks for this announcement and for continuing to bring gr= eat projects to the Hackathon. 

In order to help facilitate interaction with remote partici= pants and teams, we will use the Team Scheduling page that was introduced f= or online only Hackathon. 
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/= wiki/113hackathon/teamschedule

Feel free to add information on your projects here and upda= te is appropriate during the course of the Hackathon.

Cheers,
Charles

On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Charles and Barry,
Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea.
I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from th= is Wednesday to this Friday
in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marr= iott - Busan Songdo Beach).

We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this&nbs= p;Saturday and this Sunday remotely, and also
present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely.

Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams = (I2NSF, IPWAVE & BMWG)
to let other people join our hackathon project remotely:
--------------------------------------------
- Meeting Link:
https://skku-ict.webex.com= /skku-ict/j.php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95

- Meeting Number:
2517 188 2655

- Password:
ietf113hackathon
--------------------------------------------

I attach our photos to show our activity.
The main members are professors, researchers, and students = from Sungkyunkwan University, 
Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pus= an National University in South Korea.

Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hac= kathon projects.

IETFers interested in those hackathon projects,
please contact me and Prof. Kim by pauljeong@skku.edu and younghak@ssu.ac.kr.

Thanks for your coordination.

Best Regards,
Paul
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department Head
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.= com
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon= -jeong.php

 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-1.jpg
 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-2.jpg
 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-3.jpg
 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-4.jpg
 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-5.jpg
 IETF113-Korean-Hacka= thon-Teams-2022-03-17-6.jpg


On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charl= es Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:<= br class=3D"">
Hi Everyone,

It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. = This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup.

Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the wik= i:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/iet= f/meeting/wiki/113hackathon

Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you soo= n.

Cheers,
Charles
_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackatho= n@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hack= athon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

--_000_56847920A4814BF4A34D2909F66FDE65ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Mar 18 08:26:04 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919B53A0D40; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HK_NAME_FM_MR_MRS=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SKBz7sWg7pZE; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF7B53A0D54; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id p14so3223559lfe.4; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=L1GsGFIYi5fStk681eztQx1JMG7ND2PcoctXt4HL42Y=; b=fWoX97Txq4AgK7heHAxMd1Vx/TEEksmQ0Ohem3w+oxx2AgTP/R5zv1Do2SBDz+CO+q sv9jcOKNFjP3Yzp6lTDF0SI+8saM6EyrCKVAsnCf0Fih0XgdC9GLoXlKA40qKB+GsFJB C+q1L9d+cxo3xLYZdLx6ZeOBahg/JbIDrYJumXlCPH0IQnQRWOfUXV0GCvm074kjaCAH 8RtgThuY09CIyl0DbshrLsLph93psDphRg5nD7Pl7RZ9EA4J9HLB7ik+tihZTjQgjVXi OKT7K1nQrRKuw/3/MxrWd5xy09JEpUnAEDE5p12teBlCjxA7zzwNct2JygcGKvmoV8Dv KSxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L1GsGFIYi5fStk681eztQx1JMG7ND2PcoctXt4HL42Y=; b=LTuHcnR6hVr+ydhPMkAWSM2applXGtb/aiw83vTAbYxSIJ7gluBXrwBnseOxnyh5Ta o31MWEA2pVeTyuOkuQSej+96jBpVZQCx8U/0gic0T15iB2Yf6HUiRHjpYgkPWepQvqiz VAoxpOaIxnsVSrJ/l0Oh7HLHJJ6ZBkcSioqtGuIYW2FnwgJuXkIzDvnZBpKmLXIdonmm XAbvVer7c0LKJpwrFoviuoUZzQXi/CypGVJbvXBZoogjN9m9C/YFvTzNMgpqQiz7LhmS ZwxwW173XD7Opcj6A3qwvogoPy/0XIStckCU1Jj8RuP1ZtyRrP6X45zmYJSzq4DTExLt feBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530dG4qEoUBUo+JEUbKamVvZfm/e6gWwrCeDQP/wqyl7S3pJ4OG5 F7J+8b95tGjF3A6nkWTtH1UgLFA/6eIawq8kDx0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2rj6un/r79VqBP9f8PhbpcQyll4KC8QBydtuSkYaqffchsMN0BuvHk/4Ph+GQ4uIpDKN+OK/cm9nqyzP22nE= X-Received: by 2002:a19:650d:0:b0:448:6bf1:ab65 with SMTP id z13-20020a19650d000000b004486bf1ab65mr6381858lfb.668.1647615918563; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <490DC4A7-6638-4482-B7E1-C42F85E6DF99@cisco.com> <56847920-A481-4BF4-A34D-2909F66FDE65@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <56847920-A481-4BF4-A34D-2909F66FDE65@cisco.com> From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 00:04:41 +0900 Message-ID: To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" Cc: Barry Leiba , "hackathon@ietf.org" , Younghan Kim , =?UTF-8?B?7J6E7Zi46re8?= , JungSoo Park , Yunchul Choi , Chris Shen , Mugabarigira Bien Aime , =?UTF-8?B?7LWc6ri47Yq8?= , =?UTF-8?B?7KCV7ZiE7JWE?= , June K , Cheol-min Kim , =?UTF-8?B?6rOg7ISd7KO86rWQ7IiY64uY?= , =?UTF-8?B?7KeA7Iq56rWsIOydmOyepeuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?7KCE7J6s6recIOyEoOyehOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?67CV7IiY7KCVIOyxheyehOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?7KCV64uk7Jq0IOyEoOyehOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?6rmA7KKF7ZiEIOuwleyCrOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?7J207J6s7ZuIIOq1kOyImOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?6rmA7Y+J7IiYIOq1kOyImOuLmA==?= , =?UTF-8?B?6rmA7KeE7JqpIOuwleyCrA==?= , Jeong Hyeon Kim , Eshita Rastogi , =?UTF-8?B?7JWI7JqU7ISt?= <21ahn@naver.com>, =?UTF-8?B?6rWs66qo7IS4?= , Tianyou Yao , "i2nsf@ietf.org" , its@ietf.org, "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008d64d505da7f79f1" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:26:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:05:37 -0000 --0000000000008d64d505da7f79f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Charles, I have registered the schedule of I2NSF and IPWAVE hackathon projects with the IETF-113 Team Schedule page: - I2NSF Project . Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST . WebEx URL: https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=me8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95 (password: ietf113hackathon) . Contact: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com - IPWAVE Project . Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST . WebEx URL: https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=me8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95 (password: ietf113hackathon) . Contact: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com Thanks. Best Regards, Paul On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 6:37 PM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Thanks for this announcement and for continuing to bring great projects to > the Hackathon. > > In order to help facilitate interaction with remote participants and > teams, we will use the Team Scheduling page that was introduced for online > only Hackathon. > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon/teamschedule > > Feel free to add information on your projects here and update is > appropriate during the course of the Hackathon. > > Cheers, > Charles > > On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < > jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Charles and Barry, > Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea. > I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from this Wednesday to > this Friday > in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busan > Songdo Beach). > > We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this Saturday and this > Sunday remotely, and also > present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely. > > Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPWAVE > & BMWG) > to let other people join our hackathon project remotely: > -------------------------------------------- > - Meeting Link: > > https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=me8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95 > > - Meeting Number: > 2517 188 2655 > > - Password: > ietf113hackathon > -------------------------------------------- > > I attach our photos to show our activity. > The main members are professors, researchers, and students from > Sungkyunkwan University, > Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National > University in South Korea. > > Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hackathon projects. > > IETFers interested in those hackathon projects, > please contact me and Prof. Kim by pauljeong@skku.edu and > younghak@ssu.ac.kr. > > Thanks for your coordination. > > Best Regards, > Paul > -- > =========================== > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department Head > Department of Computer Science and Engineering > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-1.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-2.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-3.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-4.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-5.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-6.jpg > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. >> If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so >> ASAP. This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup. >> >> Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the >> wiki: >> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon >> >> Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you >> soon. >> >> Cheers, >> Charles >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe >> > > --0000000000008d64d505da7f79f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charles,
I have registered the schedule of I2NSF an= d IPWAVE hackathon projects with the IETF-113 Team Schedule page:

- I2NSF Project
. Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KS= T, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST
. Contact: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com

- IPWAVE Projec= t
. Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST

Thanks.

<= /div>
Best Regards,
Paul

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 6:37 PM= Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@c= isco.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,

Thanks for this announcement and for continuing to bring great project= s to the Hackathon.=C2=A0

In order to help facilitate interaction with remote participants and t= eams, we will use the Team Scheduling page that was introduced for online o= nly Hackathon.=C2=A0

Feel free to add information on your projects here and update is appro= priate during the course of the Hackathon.

Cheers,
Charles

On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Hi Charles and Barry,
Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea.
I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from this Wednesda= y to this Friday
in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busa= n Songdo Beach).

We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this=C2=A0Saturday = and this Sunday remotely, and also
present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely.

Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPW= AVE & BMWG)
to let other people join our hackathon project remotely:
--------------------------------------------
- Meeting Link:
https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j= .php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95

- Meeting Number:
2517 188 2655

- Password:
ietf113hackathon
--------------------------------------------

I attach our photos to show our activity.
The main members are professors, researchers, and students from Sungky= unkwan University,=C2=A0
Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National= University in South Korea.

Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hackathon proj= ects.

IETFers=C2=A0interested in those hackathon projects,
please contact me and Prof. Kim by=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu and younghak@ssu.ac.kr<= /a>.

Thanks for your coordination.

Best Regards,
Paul

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charl= es Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. = This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup.

Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the wik= i:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/w= iki/113hackathon

Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you soo= n.

Cheers,
Charles
_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

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AOAM532eZge25o2QraO+X9KUZZUWMRcY7hHd9fDL8xtGwpdxp9OdwT4t PxbsTrpqKBcKf2RiuTbOok2MaliI7d97YaE0ESEZDwcbTdM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzvMCztdygD98unU84MBQQyEUY9sUwT7hSn1loDatcStyySSYmZ9bDS02kJtL8NY2MM0NWRkBlWCMreSKOGuQ= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:df82:0:b0:2e5:ad6c:d9d with SMTP id i124-20020a0ddf82000000b002e5ad6c0d9dmr12986503ywe.17.1647629600978; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:53:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <490DC4A7-6638-4482-B7E1-C42F85E6DF99@cisco.com> <56847920-A481-4BF4-A34D-2909F66FDE65@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: "Y. Richard Yang" Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 14:53:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" Cc: "hackathon@ietf.org" , Jordi Ros Giralt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000167ad805da82a9ca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:53:27 -0000 --000000000000167ad805da82a9ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charles, Jordi, all, A small change to the zoom link for the ALTO hackathon team: https://yale.zoom.us/my/yryan -> https://yale.zoom.us/my/yryang To those who may have some interests or want to learn more, our goals are listed at https://github.com/openalto/ietf-hackathon/issues/8 Task 1 is largely done and we just have had a design review with the Rucio team at CERN. We are working on two stretch goals: Task 2 and Task 3. All are welcome to participate. - Richard on behalf of the ALTO hackathon team On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 2:26 PM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > Thanks Jordi. > I am resending to the Hackathon list with the cc list truncated [1]. > > Cheers, > Charles > > [1] Emails sent to IETF lists with too many recipients get held for > moderation and require approval. > > On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:37 PM, Jordi Ros Giralt > wrote: > > Thank you Charles. We added the ALTO meeting times. Four planning & dry > run meetings with hacking in between: > > Meeting times: > > - Sat 13:30 - 14:15 CET > - Sat 15:00 - 17:00 CET > - Sun 3:00 - 4:00 CET > - Sun 7:00 - 7:30 CET > - Room: =E2=80=8Bhttps://yale.zoom.us/my/yryan > > Scrum board: https://github.com/orgs/openalto/projects/1 > Repo: https://github.com/openalto/ietf-hackathon > > Jordi on behalf of the ALTO hackathon team > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hackathon on behalf of Mr. Jaehoon > Paul Jeong > *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2022 16:04 > *To:* Charles Eckel (eckelcu) > *Cc:* Cheol-min Kim ; hackathon@ietf.org < > hackathon@ietf.org>; =EA=B9=80=EC=A7=84=EC=9A=A9 =EB=B0=95=EC=82=AC ; Younghan Kim < > younghak@ssu.ac.kr>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; > Barry Leiba ; =EC=A0=95=EB=8B=A4=EC=9A=B4 =EC=84= =A0=EC=9E=84=EB=8B=98 ; =EC=A7=80=EC=8A=B9=EA=B5=AC =EC=9D= =98=EC=9E=A5=EB=8B=98 > ; i2nsf@ietf.org ; Jeong Hyeon Kim < > jeonghyeonkim92@gmail.com>; =EC=95=88=EC=9A=94=EC=84=AD <21ahn@naver.com>= ; Mugabarigira Bien Aime > ; =EC=B5=9C=EA=B8=B8=ED=8A=BC ; Eshita Rastogi < > eshi.2801@gmail.com>; Tianyou Yao ; Yunchul Choi < > cyc79@etri.re.kr>; JungSoo Park ; Chris Shen < > shenyiwen7@gmail.com>; =EC=A0=84=EC=9E=AC=EA=B7=9C =EC=84=A0=EC=9E=84=EB= =8B=98 ; June K < > lovekwon200@gmail.com>; =EC=9D=B4=EC=9E=AC=ED=9B=88 =EA=B5=90=EC=88=98=EB= =8B=98 ; its@ietf.org< > its@ietf.org>; =EB=B0=95=EC=88=98=EC=A0=95 =EC=B1=85=EC=9E=84=EB=8B=98 ; =EC=9E=84=ED=98=B8=EA=B7=BC ; =EA=B5= =AC=EB=AA=A8=EC=84=B8 > ; =EA=B9=80=ED=8F=89=EC=88=98 =EA=B5=90=EC=88=98=EB=8B= =98 ; =EA=B9=80=EC=A2=85=ED=98=84 =EB=B0=95=EC=82=AC=EB=8B= =98 ; > =EC=A0=95=ED=98=84=EC=95=84 ; =EA=B3=A0=EC=84=9D= =EC=A3=BC=EA=B5=90=EC=88=98=EB=8B=98 > *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning > > *WARNING:* This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary > of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros. > Hi Charles, > I have registered the schedule of I2NSF and IPWAVE hackathon projects wit= h > the IETF-113 Team Schedule page: > > - I2NSF Project > . Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST > . WebEx URL: > https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1= ffd946e95(password: > ietf113hackathon) > . Contact: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com > > - IPWAVE Project > . Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST > . WebEx URL: > https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1= ffd946e95(password: > ietf113hackathon) > . Contact: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com > > Thanks. > > Best Regards, > Paul > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 6:37 PM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) > wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > Thanks for this announcement and for continuing to bring great projects t= o > the Hackathon. > > In order to help facilitate interaction with remote participants and > teams, we will use the Team Scheduling page that was introduced for onlin= e > only Hackathon. > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon/teamschedule > > Feel free to add information on your projects here and update is > appropriate during the course of the Hackathon. > > Cheers, > Charles > > On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong < > jaehoon.paul@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Charles and Barry, > Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea. > I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from this Wednesday t= o > this Friday > in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busan > Songdo Beach). > > We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this Saturday and this > Sunday remotely, and also > present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely. > > Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPWAVE > & BMWG) > to let other people join our hackathon project remotely: > -------------------------------------------- > - Meeting Link: > > https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j.php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1= ffd946e95 > > > - Meeting Number: > 2517 188 2655 > > - Password: > ietf113hackathon > -------------------------------------------- > > I attach our photos to show our activity. > The main members are professors, researchers, and students from > Sungkyunkwan University, > Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National > University in South Korea. > > Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hackathon project= s. > > IETFers interested in those hackathon projects, > please contact me and Prof. Kim by pauljeong@skku.edu and > younghak@ssu.ac.kr. > > Thanks for your coordination. > > Best Regards, > Paul > -- > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department Head > Department of Computer Science and Engineering > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-1.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-2.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-3.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-4.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-5.jpg > > IETF113-Korean-Hackathon-Teams-2022-03-17-6.jpg > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. > If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP= . > This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup. > > Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the > wiki: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon > > Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you > soon. > > Cheers, > Charles > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > --=20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D | Y. Richard Yang | | Professor of Computer Science | | http://www.cs.yale.edu/~yry/ | =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --000000000000167ad805da82a9ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Charles, Jordi, all,

A small ch= ange to the zoom link for the ALTO hackathon team:
https://yale.zoom.us/my/yryan ->=C2=A0https://yale.zoom.us/my/yryang

To those who may have some interests or want to learn = more, our goals are listed at https://github.com/openalto/ietf-hackathon/issues/8<= /div>

Task 1 is largely done and we just have had a desi= gn review with the Rucio team at CERN. We are working on two stretch goals:= Task 2 and Task 3. All are welcome to participate.

- Richard on behalf of the ALTO hackathon team

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022= at 2:26 PM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Thanks Jordi.=C2=A0
I am resending to the Hackathon list with the cc list truncated [1].

Cheers,
Charles

[1] Emails sent to IETF lists with too many recipients get held for mo= deration and require approval.

On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:37 PM, Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote:=

Thank you Charles. We added the ALTO meeting times. Four planning & dry= run meetings with hacking in between:

Meeting times:

Jordi on behalf=C2=A0of the ALTO hackathon team

From:=C2=A0hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mr. Jaeh= oon Paul Jeong <jaeh= oon.paul@gmail.com>
Sent:=C2=A0Friday, March 18, 2022 16:04
To:=C2=A0Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Cc:=C2=A0Cheol-min Kim <cheolminkim@vanilet.pe.kr>;= =C2=A0hackat= hon@ietf.org=C2=A0<hackathon@ietf.org>; =EA=B9=80=EC=A7=84=EC=9A=A9 =EB=B0=95=EC=82=AC <timkim09230930@gmail.com>; Yo= unghan Kim <youn= ghak@ssu.ac.kr>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>; =EC=A0=95=EB=8B=A4=EC=9A=B4 =EC=84=A0= =EC=9E=84=EB=8B=98 <dwtta@tta.or.kr>; =EC=A7=80=EC=8A=B9=EA=B5=AC =EC=9D=98=EC=9E=A5=EB= =8B=98 <eleca@kisa= .or.kr>;=C2=A0i2nsf@ietf.org=C2=A0<i2nsf@ietf.org>; Jeong Hyeon Kim <jeonghyeonkim92@gmail.com>; =EC=95=88=EC=9A=94=EC=84=AD <= ;21ahn@naver.com&g= t;; Mugabarigira Bien Aime <mubienaime@gmail.com>; =EC=B5=9C=EA=B8=B8=ED=8A=BC <gilteunchoi@gmail.com>; Eshita Rastogi <eshi.2801@gmail.com&g= t;; Tianyou Yao <yaotianyou3@gmail.com>; Yunchul Choi <cyc= 79@etri.re.kr>; JungSoo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>; =EC=A0= =84=EC=9E=AC=EA=B7=9C =EC=84=A0=EC=9E=84=EB=8B=98 <jjg@kisa.or.kr>; June K <love= kwon200@gmail.com>; =EC=9D=B4=EC=9E=AC=ED=9B=88 =EA=B5=90=EC=88=98= =EB=8B=98 <jae= hwoon@dongguk.edu>;=C2=A0its@ietf.org<its@ietf.org>; =EB=B0=95=EC=88=98=EC=A0=95 =EC=B1=85=EC=9E=84=EB=8B=98 <sjpark@tta.or.kr>; =EC=9E=84= =ED=98=B8=EA=B7=BC <limhk@dcn.ssu.ac.kr>; =EA=B5=AC=EB=AA=A8=EC=84=B8 <rna0415@naver.com>; = =EA=B9=80=ED=8F=89=EC=88=98 =EA=B5=90=EC=88=98=EB=8B=98 <pskim@kpu.ac.kr>; =EA=B9=80=EC=A2=85=ED=98=84 =EB=B0=95=EC=82=AC=EB=8B=98 <jhk@etri.re.kr>; =EC=A0=95=ED= =98=84=EC=95=84 <hyeonah_jung@naver.com>; =EA=B3=A0=EC=84=9D=EC=A3=BC=EA=B5=90= =EC=88=98=EB=8B=98 <sjkoh@knu.ac.kr>
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [hackathon] Hackathon space planning<= /font>
=C2=A0
WARNING:=C2=A0This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or = attachments, and do not enable macros.
Hi Charles,
I have registered the schedule of I2NSF and IPWAVE hackathon projects = with the IETF-113 Team Schedule page:

- I2NSF Project
. Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST=C2= =A0
. Contact:=C2=A0jaehoon.paul@gmail.com

- IPWAVE Project
. Time: Saturday 19:00 - 22:00 KST, Sunday 19:00 - 21:00 KST=C2= =A0
. Contact:=C2=A0jaehoon.paul@gmail.com

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 6:37 PM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) &l= t;eckelcu@cisco.com<= /a>> wrote:
Hi Paul,

Thanks for this announcement and for continuing to bring great project= s to the Hackathon.=C2=A0

In order to help facilitate interaction with remote participants and t= eams, we will use the Team Scheduling page that was introduced for online o= nly Hackathon.=C2=A0

Feel free to add information on your projects here and update is appro= priate during the course of the Hackathon.

Cheers,
Charles

On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:47 AM, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Hi Charles and Barry,
Let me announce our IETF-113 Hackathon Teams in Korea.
I2NSF, IPWAVE, and BMWG Hackathon Teams are working from this Wednesda= y to this Friday
in an on-site workshop in Busan in Korea (Fairfield by Marriott - Busa= n Songdo Beach).

We will participate in the IETF-113 Hackathon from this=C2=A0Saturday = and this Sunday remotely, and also
present our progress in the hackathon projects remotely.

Here is the WebEx link for IETF-113 Korean Hackathon Teams (I2NSF, IPW= AVE & BMWG)
to let other people join our hackathon project remotely:
--------------------------------------------
- Meeting Link:
https://skku-ict.webex.com/skku-ict/j= .php?MTID=3Dme8a15deb0f0cbfbc4c121e1ffd946e95=C2=A0

- Meeting Number:
2517 188 2655

- Password:
ietf113hackathon
--------------------------------------------

I attach our photos to show our activity.
The main members are professors, researchers, and students from Sungky= unkwan University,=C2=A0
Soongsil University, Kyungpook National University, and Pusan National= University in South Korea.

Prof. Younghan Kim and I are the co-champions for these hackathon proj= ects.

IETFers=C2=A0interested in those hackathon projects,
please contact me and Prof. Kim by=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu=C2=A0and=C2=A0young= hak@ssu.ac.kr.

Thanks for your coordination.

Best Regards,
Paul
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department Head
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email:=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu,=C2=A0jaehoon.paul@gmail.com
Personal Homepage:=C2=A0http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php<= /a>


On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 4:39 AM Charles Eckel (eckelcu) &l= t;eckelcu=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Everyone,

It is great to see so many projects and registrations for the Hackathon. If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so ASAP. = This will help a great deal with space planning/room setup.

Links for registrations and all the latest info and projects are on the wik= i:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/w= iki/113hackathon

Safe travels to those attending in person. I look forward to seeing you soo= n.

Cheers,
Charles
_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe


--
--=C2=A0
=C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
| Y. Richard Yang <yry@cs.yale.edu> =C2=A0 |
| Professor of Computer Science = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
| http://www.= cs.yale.edu/~yry/ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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2022)) id <0R8Y00I00SQQKD00@crk-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.euro.apple.com> for hackathon@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:47:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 65e2316e368e89fe68bd75e23778031b X-Va-E-CD: 48fad110ca52ec869dc2697e5c8f43a2 X-Va-R-CD: e204508099edb348e9ce5c554a85ea14 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 22951f0c-434d-46fa-bac6-d4364e8b2df7 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 65e2316e368e89fe68bd75e23778031b X-V-E-CD: 48fad110ca52ec869dc2697e5c8f43a2 X-V-R-CD: e204508099edb348e9ce5c554a85ea14 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 229d46c3-2ab1-4c98-a2b7-ec255dd5a485 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.850 definitions=2022-03-18_11:2022-03-15, 2022-03-18 signatures=0 Received: from [17.235.194.60] (unknown [17.235.194.60]) by crk-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.euro.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.16.20220118 64bit (built Jan 18 2022)) with ESMTPSA id <0R8Y00RAJSQPAI00@crk-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.euro.apple.com> for hackathon@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:47:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Stuart Cheshire Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Message-id: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 00:47:13 +0100 To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.850 definitions=2022-03-18_11:2022-03-15, 2022-03-18 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:47:21 -0000 Dear Hackathon crew! I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software = and network protocol standards. My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a = significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the = availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to = the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of = easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for = those network protocol standards. I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this = intuition, but it would be interesting to back up that intuition with = concrete data. I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples. Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation = clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open = Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively = working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent = community following the standards development process? Are there cases of a networking protocol that did not become successful = where, in retrospect, it seems clear that the availability of an easily = accessible Open Source implementation would have helped? And, of course, counterexamples are also interesting: recent protocols = that failed despite having a robust Open Source implementation, or = recent protocols that succeeded despite having no Open Source = implementation. I am not the first person to think about the growing influence of Open = Source on protocol development. Indeed, the existence of the IETF = Hackathon itself is, in part, an acknowledgment of this new direction in = protocol development. And others have written about it in the past: 2015: = 2016: = 2018: = Looking back now, in 2022, how have those earlier predictions played = out? Do we have clear winners we can point to? Clear losers? This will = help inform companies how they might want to engage with Open Source. = Should companies embrace Open Source for protocol development? Or should = companies go back to the old way, with open specifications and private = implementations? Please reply on the list or to me privately, and I will compile a list = of responses. 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--_000_SEZPR06MB4998C9D861B3FC4A858F9DC3F3149SEZPR06MB4998apcp_-- From nobody Sat Mar 19 07:03:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12FDC3A13CA for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sLFpnrV8dBGi for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65FD93A13AA for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:d003:2102:94d4:fdda]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8760280112; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 16:03:06 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1647698586; bh=HDF/JNcBjxuaa2g0qKo1LF+csKwnTqlP9PdT8bEH1Aw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ps/anD/pYF3vfGCi7kXeV2dy5BV/OeqwmzjlrcGqMA7ORj881FSlAVfxlNK5akbd8 RRIwuwbD/DnzzfxqHaJ19tZ/Nrmkx8ej/aMvjD+lktzSHOIyKrqI5QwLSbEHBTMeB0 JvlksUkkFYvi3NrpdyxRE75Ln8dcoF6hYUYdK4HY= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7278B1EE-BFE3-47AA-B7C2-5045BBF9343F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:03:05 +0100 Cc: hackathon@ietf.org Message-Id: References: To: Stuart Cheshire X-MailScanner-ID: A8760280112.A15B7 X-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:03:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7278B1EE-BFE3-47AA-B7C2-5045BBF9343F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2022-3-19, at 0:47, Stuart Cheshire = wrote: > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation = clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open = Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively = working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent = community following the standards development process? QUIC qualifies, I think. Almost all the implementations (including the = initial Google-proprietary version) are open source, and for the IETF = version, implementations and standardization were tightly coupled. We = did combined WG interims plus interop events six times a year for = several years. 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[174.103.112.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r14-20020ac85c8e000000b002e1d62ba775sm8249663qta.21.2022.03.19.11.57.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 19 Mar 2022 11:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:57:37 -0400 From: Sean DuBois To: Lars Eggert Cc: Stuart Cheshire , hackathon@ietf.org Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 18:57:45 -0000 On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 03:03:05PM +0100, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > On 2022-3-19, at 0:47, Stuart Cheshire wrote: > > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the standards development process? > > QUIC qualifies, I think. Almost all the implementations (including the initial Google-proprietary version) are open source, and for the IETF version, implementations and standardization were tightly coupled. We did combined WG interims plus interop events six times a year for several years. > > Thanks, > Lars > WebRTC As a WebRTC user in ~2013 it was only useful because of Open Source SFUs. Building your own SFU wasn't something smaller companies could do. janus[0] and mediasoup[1] are good examples. The authors were independent and involved with standards. [0] https://github.com/meetecho/janus-gateway [1] https://github.com/versatica/mediasoup > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe From nobody Sat Mar 19 12:36:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743613A0ED1; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oh_BQLXHtmg5; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04F2D3A0ED0; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nVerh-0006Ev-0g; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:35:53 +0000 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Lars Eggert Cc: Stuart Cheshire , hackathon@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/26.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:58:32 -0000 On 20-Mar-22 03:03, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > On 2022-3-19, at 0:47, Stuart Cheshire wrote: >> Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the standards development process? > > QUIC qualifies, I think. Almost all the implementations (including the initial Google-proprietary version) are open source, and for the IETF version, implementations and standardization were tightly coupled. We did combined WG interims plus interop events six times a year for several years. I don't remember, if I ever knew, the historical sequence that led to the original BSD license, but didn't an early BSD Unix release include a small package called TCP/IP? At least by 1988, when worldwide growth of TCP/IP really took off, it carried a primitive form of the BSD license. Another well known case is the public domain release of the original HTTP code in April 1993. That code probably didn't survive long but its release with no strings attached was very significant. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH0PR02MB7980.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 991eb21e-c2b2-4758-a7cc-08da09e75fdb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Mar 2022 20:30:57.5735 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e741d71c-c6b6-47b0-803c-0f3b32b07556 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gVcQRtv8jyuesgFspZocxphqepwcEoP0GSJjPKU5iV91nKbL+TQrYj8dc/CqZOAl X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR02MB6525 X-TM-SNTS-SMTP: 176ECE5B36DCEE536174D9608C11C3FF767A316BF276EFE89B44AC9E3C20DCAB2 X-Proofpoint-GUID: V_XZ4Sx_PIn7f6PDRWm4mRafW1znP3-R X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: V_XZ4Sx_PIn7f6PDRWm4mRafW1znP3-R X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.850,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.11.64.514 definitions=2022-03-19_11,2022-03-15_01,2022-02-23_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203190138 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 20:31:12 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: hackathon On Behalf Of Brian E Carpent= er > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 3:58 PM > To: hackathon@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standa= rds >=20 > On 20-Mar-22 03:03, Lars Eggert wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On 2022-3-19, at 0:47, Stuart Cheshire > wrote: > >> Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation cl= early > helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source > implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on th= e > protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent community followin= g the > standards development process? > > > > QUIC qualifies, I think. Almost all the implementations (including the > initial Google-proprietary version) are open source, and for the IETF ver= sion, > implementations and standardization were tightly coupled. We did combined= WG > interims plus interop events six times a year for several years. >=20 > I don't remember, if I ever knew, the historical sequence that led to the > original BSD license, but didn't an early BSD Unix release include a smal= l > package called TCP/IP? At least by 1988, when worldwide growth of TCP/IP > really took off, it carried a primitive form of the BSD license. >=20 > Another well known case is the public domain release of the original HTTP= code > in April 1993. That code probably didn't survive long but its release wit= h no > strings attached was very significant. See > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cds.cern.ch/record/1164399?ln=3Den__;= !!BhdT! > moHma6ShHkDJOSshEb6hQ9QlK6MinUv8JJKPoWmSLGKPRxC0CAtVczs7P-Hf1p6G2KWTsL14h= K2Z1- > SrAPQMmQ8$ >=20 > Brian >=20 [acm]=20 an example from the past is NTP. When the NTP WG started-up again in ~2005= *, quite a bit of the history was shared and it seemed that the Dave Mill's= running code was the success factor (RFC 1305). There were very few other = implementations, if any in 2005. The new NTP wg's goal was to bring the spe= cification up-to-date with the current code (NTP v4). Anyone still working = in timing distribution might want to tweak the above for accuracy. * I believe someone hired a car to bring Dave to the wg-forming BoF meeting= , a really nice gesture and the only time I met Dave in-person. Al From nobody Sat Mar 19 13:40:01 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516D43A1792 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rEKnhztRJWU5 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B8E03A17B9 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id m30so6112664wrb.1 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=epqdf4LaQj832O6yqN16R0+qPX+r7ukCiyvDCBJ6PrU=; b=E71po8TnNts5ZIVjMRzZqyI9K7qBuvY4S6mnD7v2h7nC2049nx6u/tNdNi5H2rt6dF XgaWeyWGmoMUQT4cXPDOYT7YJNVBvD6mFucvRk1CGlTCW5EzixOoiGN5Xpza4ha2wd3+ 9aPxUTV1g8IgsjNvp2OF0r2CkslLHL2FI+u5CeVZwAXe6zvy8uTfkSnzVhQW6g/bdzRN G5CdM4nM3cMazDspG+nQL4gPKU0WkAajzp29QC6kajz8h+soK9o6Ddcc+ctQTYxrlsFH f7UC7hCQWrwCgFNbJnKOWHd4jR6U6M27e5tRhIBYNR7NGg0DLlTva4ZWoTvHsATogd3C Lrow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=epqdf4LaQj832O6yqN16R0+qPX+r7ukCiyvDCBJ6PrU=; b=6GI49ziTe+267P/GmXVxGnScrIyeosDZHaQwsCG1AkCWfma0IaLBAhBi/ESBe5BicF SxAkqdt5AOZyvQ8j7a/hhqVOWMEygC9GdiqB0BUV7Rx2eOSw+VJSww7ubyIF/NYf7kAD aGhhthhbmnVd1EPJNmV5fkg+t4Iro6A+1hPk9TzJOMb/OW5b78W3Oj1NMyQduNrSnkXL hQqgDiiSxNecfkYXJsXNyr1d7Or3KL09wgQ5nAK6Np56fxCQvk4xwypg4EDk46lAvk/p 6UAxQYQ6Dx3VDk91f6u8n2nGuEVHBoo3RMcev5ktxgXaaa+b/E/EvdZ1xm8LC6M3pE9P s06g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VZKnxyxBXu2ZIl43EHSaNOl/aGfcI8gFoPzUuCk1AXjVq8PVF lf4QJUGlpgc9VZtKpQas5fw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwct6nLz3J0FGXi9Yk9pKJk/BcYCvQYShJIsWbODKakUm9ECZq+o7dHdaG8KymxRN5tBV7LoA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:510d:0:b0:203:f72e:ee24 with SMTP id s13-20020a5d510d000000b00203f72eee24mr6990024wrt.183.1647722391165; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:1700:4383:c05f:6571:dc6b:c1b7:4a67]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t7-20020a05600c198700b00389fb24f397sm13240843wmq.21.2022.03.19.13.39.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ED69F61C-3CFA-4478-8B94-75E47CCA3BC3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:39:47 -0700 Cc: Bob Hinden , hackathon@ietf.org Message-Id: <33C1BDCB-E46C-47A5-9004-2438348FC433@gmail.com> References: To: Stuart Cheshire X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 20:39:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ED69F61C-3CFA-4478-8B94-75E47CCA3BC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stuart, > On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:47 PM, Stuart Cheshire = wrote: >=20 > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation = clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open = Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively = working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent = community following the standards development process? >=20 The Kame project as part of the WIDE project developed open source = projects for IPv6, IPsec, and Mobile IPv6 for BSD variants. See: https://www.kame.net These were used as the basis of many IPv6 implementations. Bob --Apple-Mail=_ED69F61C-3CFA-4478-8B94-75E47CCA3BC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAmI2P5MACgkQrut0EXfn u6hpKQgAqhFaEa/pnXxfFjd5BkhG+0R6s9Nq/BYkjTTX/waHG4eyewJYWIeU4NHy u2phd6xSSj4hYfte1CeEkmmPvek+iaciTdRhQ8fW1RDXj4XcKfuXJfErQMSTX8uF 32b2rg1vnntSLl0fxQLZu3wKWjICFsNjNStWjilZBbjTciZGUGbmAK/qQyJyvrkk gBALaKw9wM7Xo6SSi6R3mQHHVWnyphlZi0i42NIqRyfwCr6y9g4r3KHDCgB3jiui xezXBisE3+bJ+5FzV8V9slQL9gvI6nQK/zdq+G/kp4lbIRfl9TvhRy0wubktah6Q tLUnfY0yZsdZCsh78adq7GeW+0BC+w== =b+9X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_ED69F61C-3CFA-4478-8B94-75E47CCA3BC3-- From nobody Sat Mar 19 13:59:47 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996483A1781 for ; 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Sat, 19 Mar 2022 20:59:33 +0000 (GMT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Stuart Cheshire In-reply-to: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 21:59:31 +0100 Cc: "hackathon@ietf.org" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: To: Chris Inacio X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.850 definitions=2022-03-19_09:2022-03-15, 2022-03-19 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 20:59:46 -0000 On 19 Mar 2022, at 01:32, Chris Inacio wrote: > Stuart, >=20 > Not that this necessarily changes an answer I have, but how far back = would you like to go, roughly? >=20 > Mostly reacting to your =E2=80=9Crecent years=E2=80=9D start of the = question. Good point Chris. Let=E2=80=99s remove the =E2=80=9Crecent=E2=80=9D = caveat. Examples others have given, like TCP/IP and HTTP, are very = relevant data points too. Stuart Cheshire From nobody Sat Mar 19 14:34:51 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E743A17A4 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-gcBpfVxA8j for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 194453A0A25 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id d19so12419572pfv.7 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ctmWf7cSE8Rb6uIOSrHuN9UN3nEEwX2/EWiWlDGQ3Xs=; b=WnIE41omPJfJr4PGH25d1jqVG9Wz9h++pxT7pI+5rviuFrJFcKfCrQlPtNR8hDepPI A1EETo785tIzlpoDkPrb6B+Ul+4oHL2dj+eKP13WfLNZMKb63FwZt3XyYfRe7sZuJ169 MlzTS4SrNbBMiotQKAs06t5W3+/oXKRGkQiV55+DQoPDtmY19rA5E1vXMpwuCY3YSr4L jwjclX4AYOg9tbQ/k8INeX/6c3ELRtfVXqs8/tDyam8OovVWfM619/r9TvjV+TJJxsNK j5Hhpr069+RGuKpFluvHI/XW0x/8JPWnF2S0RnvHG0g8QvebPh7TwWxj6iMXI3ZNMedo gq/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ctmWf7cSE8Rb6uIOSrHuN9UN3nEEwX2/EWiWlDGQ3Xs=; b=iCMtLGHTCP5xVTArY1+lUlDVT1y1mLkM+iL1VXiZ8Ous5sZF0s6h5yyreJsj+eJ8eg h/rWKmUgFNqljW7c8raz98AVAyKY6eV5FmoQdadUoyEISE3oczmUHFtTHBuBttVjz3Kc gHBss0uolXCYgV8HKjr09IXY0/VHJk9Bf+FKu4uBlNKqAA1Zd4yMWI7zFu7Q+jVOw0N/ 1bQIjDu2H6RmY+L9meVfn9BQ+xJ5GMKNGJJsqnvhQE34VEB3a+SJeI4TQNcltjNBuYww 3lAV9jrlYObEhz/R8izLiwTH5TlbyKAtG+9RL+6snsPLgIvsmya/bdIocNH5Vrr8Xu33 YHXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KKtU+8DDf4mDwALIZWbsDpcMDRVuDdQxrWGXMgqEwL/QccBPs pqYrOykz9Vo5s7SMVBIfPDlahE3h/Nw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyAuHJpFq2OnoUThl0Joa1PXJPr9yzSi7ctplq6IhnM2gSg2TyQqi+YrPPKQL/4aXaCX5cI/g== X-Received: by 2002:a63:1a04:0:b0:381:edc8:66b1 with SMTP id a4-20020a631a04000000b00381edc866b1mr12833448pga.131.1647725683756; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2a09:bac0:4::82d:2974]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e6-20020a056a001a8600b004f78b5a4493sm13617876pfv.105.2022.03.19.14.34.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Omer Shapira In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:34:40 -0700 Cc: Chris Inacio , "hackathon@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <55D6F5E8-717B-45A0-AC25-4A38E47CA681@gmail.com> References: To: Stuart Cheshire X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 21:34:50 -0000 Stuart, Apache Kafka comes to mind as an example of Open-Source protocol which = had displaced many closed-source alternatives.=20 Another example is the adoption of BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) for = biometric sensors (e.g. heart rate monitors). BLE has Open-Source = implementations and is steadily displacing proprietary protocols such as = Garmin ANT. Other than that, the evolution of peer-to-peer file sharing protocols = can be relevant: Closed-source protocols such as Kazaa or eD2k gained initial popularity = in the early 2000s but failed eventually. On the other hand, Bit Torrent remained relevant for more than 30 years. = As you probably know, the LEDBAT CCA has originated from Bit Torrent. Omer > On Mar 19, 2022, at 1:59 PM, Stuart Cheshire = wrote: >=20 > On 19 Mar 2022, at 01:32, Chris Inacio wrote: >=20 >> Stuart, >>=20 >> Not that this necessarily changes an answer I have, but how far back = would you like to go, roughly? >>=20 >> Mostly reacting to your =E2=80=9Crecent years=E2=80=9D start of the = question. >=20 > Good point Chris. Let=E2=80=99s remove the =E2=80=9Crecent=E2=80=9D = caveat. Examples others have given, like TCP/IP and HTTP, are very = relevant data points too. >=20 > Stuart Cheshire >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe From nobody Sat Mar 19 14:49:19 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE883A17B9 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:49:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.857 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.857 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jdyMFUZsqNPi for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D72D3A17B3 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id t7so9408006qta.10 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:49:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iCuSwAOPMNb5+cjBebgbMRRo9dVK1u+IZkqVMRDOaqs=; b=bKb2O3xOuMTmMisLjqZfV3erbZEiCr6NiyRDLn9uw7PncYRRT0WszY5/etQ4M3hoPh gcti6LhoagX611GgIsT/7tmVp+qFpmMvIcAFPcCtL354x0cykQ1tzMEf43c/Rtem/q8t dYqk8zmNZ4gHYSvBgXR70sPevn4E8SXQDI+5WXRF3LEVMxzi0mauPx8Y4WFS3BK8G+Nd iiWG1FisU2GVfY0LIEGRWduTqf5tVP8RML6rMR8LExI6OkCaEtojy/V/0AJSxLv1oDf1 Nsi3WATX5TrfHWFL3/kwbUlpx8Cj1txv5S4lmNTeIlcfPcu0mCNVe4jJ8xS2QxEdTEis Dy+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iCuSwAOPMNb5+cjBebgbMRRo9dVK1u+IZkqVMRDOaqs=; b=c2pxO6zv+yhvRGuFwz+BWHFEDRPl8DzLQUHVhHOVQCbIsXPP3goS/7YOVX+O8WQFQ8 HZbuEeN7O5LPGve2K/ZhRQHLP+k+0DmNcs/agRGDWsN5DwlVYVTyW6wo1Qv1sLOTiCWc I38oiE1T66q2D53prQDSH4E5g2xiMhotfT1O0sUN1bRcq3fk/DYj5wrDhiGI6NMMZJIw uxMqz0CivgQjrhzN11RwsuveNR4mCDwKN+oQVzfYf3NEQ2D+9yIixNmTzHSjwwJN7xZo pla0FEZTStYI+chtxbqlswDIQqnxMepo0qUHrPr/+4nxH34DJvfj5yuwBi67axbiqqSx W6og== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533bgIr4zlsgYm4pNSNKoLhRf9+XMgQ+uv9Yv6SjFxTHaJ67x06T y5WerV4tWrcmSNQcRyBl+YwYCdZIcOQ4+H/AgLE2S5SfoXo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxF0rrgXRMe6SARNPM4pYxNv9ksJlc5rwboYObrFyM7JWUPFU4qTlftgbBiGr75YkA/8Bu6oOn5xf9KdplunlM= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5955:0:b0:2e1:cd96:68a9 with SMTP id 21-20020ac85955000000b002e1cd9668a9mr11827732qtz.542.1647726549740; Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:49:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: guest271314 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:48:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Stuart Cheshire Cc: hackathon@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000af2ee505da993b8b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 21:49:18 -0000 --000000000000af2ee505da993b8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IPFS appears to meet the criteria. InterPlanetary File System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary_File_System#Creators[relevant?= ] According to its website and that of the World Economic Forum, Protocol > Labs is "an open-source research, development, and deployment laboratory > for blockchain technology" that "creates software systems that tackle > significant challenges" and whose goal is to "make human existence orders > of magnitude better through technology." IPFS - Content Addressed, Versioned, P2P File System (DRAFT 3): https://github.com/ipfs/papers/raw/master/ipfs-cap2pfs/ipfs-p2p-file-system= .pdf I think Open Source Software development and specification is superior to in-house, private development due to Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del#Incompleteness_Theorem 1. If a (logical or axiomatic formal) system is [omega] consistent, it cannot be [syntactically] complete. 2. The consistency of axioms cannot be proved within their own system. Even the smartest people in the world, when confined in their own laboratories or small or even large groups or organizations, cannot conceive of every potential use case, test and verify or prove their own claims. External testing and verification of claims is necessary to prove the claims are true and correct, which is not really possible when the source code is private. In fact, organizations might go so far as to ban external entities from contributing to development or filing bugs, which further limits the potential to find or fix bugs in the implementation or specification. Kind regards, /guest271314/ On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:48 PM Stuart Cheshire wrote: > Dear Hackathon crew! > > I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software and > network protocol standards. > > My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a > significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availabilit= y > of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of > network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessib= le > open implementations contributing to less success for those network > protocol standards. > > I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this intuition, > but it would be interesting to back up that intuition with concrete data. > > I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples. > > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation > clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open > Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively workin= g > on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent community > following the standards development process? > > Are there cases of a networking protocol that did not become successful > where, in retrospect, it seems clear that the availability of an easily > accessible Open Source implementation would have helped? > > And, of course, counterexamples are also interesting: recent protocols > that failed despite having a robust Open Source implementation, or recent > protocols that succeeded despite having no Open Source implementation. > > I am not the first person to think about the growing influence of Open > Source on protocol development. Indeed, the existence of the IETF Hackath= on > itself is, in part, an acknowledgment of this new direction in protocol > development. And others have written about it in the past: > > 2015: > 2016: < > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-arkko-ietf-trends-and-observa= tions-00 > > > 2018: < > https://www.ietfjournal.org/three-years-on-open-standards-open-source-ope= n-loop/ > > > > Looking back now, in 2022, how have those earlier predictions played out? > Do we have clear winners we can point to? Clear losers? This will help > inform companies how they might want to engage with Open Source. Should > companies embrace Open Source for protocol development? Or should compani= es > go back to the old way, with open specifications and private > implementations? > > Please reply on the list or to me privately, and I will compile a list of > responses. > > Stuart Cheshire > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > --000000000000af2ee505da993b8b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IPFS appears to meet the criteria.

InterPlan= etary File System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterPlanetary= _File_System#Creators[relevant?]

According to its website and that of th= e World Economic Forum, Protocol Labs is "an open-source research, dev= elopment, and deployment laboratory for blockchain technology" that &q= uot;creates software systems that tackle significant challenges" and w= hose goal is to "make human existence orders of magnitude better throu= gh technology."

IPFS - Content Address= ed, Versioned, P2P File System (DRAFT 3): https://github.com/ipfs/papers/raw/master/ipfs-= cap2pfs/ipfs-p2p-file-system.pdf

I= think Open Source Software development and specification is superior to in= -house, private development due to Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem= =C2=A0https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del#Incompleteness_Th= eorem

1. If a (logical or axiomatic formal) system = is [omega] consistent, it cannot be [syntactically] complete.
2. The con= sistency of axioms cannot be proved within their own system.

=
Even the smartest people in the world, when confined in their own labo= ratories or small or even large groups or organizations, cannot conceive of= every potential use case, test and verify or prove their own claims. Exter= nal testing and verification of claims is necessary to prove the claims are= true and correct, which is not really possible when the source code is pri= vate. In fact, organizations might go so far as to ban external entities fr= om contributing to development or filing bugs, which further limits the pot= ential to find or fix bugs in the implementation or specification.

Kind regards,
/guest271314/

On Fri, Mar 18,= 2022 at 4:48 PM Stuart Cheshire <cheshire=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Dear Hackathon crew!

I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software and n= etwork protocol standards.

My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a signifi= cant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easi= ly accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network p= rotocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open imp= lementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standa= rds.

I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this intuition, b= ut it would be interesting to back up that intuition with concrete data.
I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples.

Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly= helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source imple= mentation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the proto= col standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the s= tandards development process?

Are there cases of a networking protocol that did not become successful whe= re, in retrospect, it seems clear that the availability of an easily access= ible Open Source implementation would have helped?

And, of course, counterexamples are also interesting: recent protocols that= failed despite having a robust Open Source implementation, or recent proto= cols that succeeded despite having no Open Source implementation.

I am not the first person to think about the growing influence of Open Sour= ce on protocol development. Indeed, the existence of the IETF Hackathon its= elf is, in part, an acknowledgment of this new direction in protocol develo= pment. And others have written about it in the past:

2015: <https://www.ietfjournal.o= rg/open-standards-open-source-open-loop/>
2016: <https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-arkko-ietf-trends-and-observations-00>
2018: <https://ww= w.ietfjournal.org/three-years-on-open-standards-open-source-open-loop/&= gt;

Looking back now, in 2022, how have those earlier predictions played out? D= o we have clear winners we can point to? Clear losers? This will help infor= m companies how they might want to engage with Open Source. Should companie= s embrace Open Source for protocol development? Or should companies go back= to the old way, with open specifications and private implementations?

Please reply on the list or to me privately, and I will compile a list of r= esponses.

Stuart Cheshire

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe
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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:25:51 -0000 --_000_YT2PR01MB593327BB9DC7C59F9C7859EDB2159YT2PR01MB5933CANP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stuart, The Secure Reliable Transport (SRT) protocol might be an interesting exampl= e. https://github.com/Haivision/srt It has become an extremely popular network protocol for a sub-second latenc= y live video contribution and distribution. It is an implementation-driven protocol built on top of UDP. First created = in 2013 based on the UDT. Made free and open source in 2017. The protocol has gained a notable success because anyone could take the lib= rary, easily integrate it in his/her project and have things ready for live= streaming in quite a short time. Later the protocol was also included into= open-source projects like FFmpeg, VLC, GStreamer, Wireshark, etc. That had= further simplified the effort needed to get things up and running. The SRT RFC draft followed in 2021 to provide a normative description of how the proto= col works, and to serve a reference point for further improvements and exte= nsions. -- Kind regards, Maxim Sharabayko From: hackathon on behalf of Stuart Cheshire <= cheshire=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> Date: Saturday, 19. March 2022 at 00:47 To: hackathon@ietf.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol s= tandards Dear Hackathon crew! I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software and n= etwork protocol standards. My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a signifi= cant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easi= ly accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network p= rotocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open imp= lementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standa= rds. I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this intuition, b= ut it would be interesting to back up that intuition with concrete data. I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples. Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly= helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source imple= mentation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the proto= col standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the s= tandards development process? Are there cases of a networking protocol that did not become successful whe= re, in retrospect, it seems clear that the availability of an easily access= ible Open Source implementation would have helped? And, of course, counterexamples are also interesting: recent protocols that= failed despite having a robust Open Source implementation, or recent proto= cols that succeeded despite having no Open Source implementation. I am not the first person to think about the growing influence of Open Sour= ce on protocol development. Indeed, the existence of the IETF Hackathon its= elf is, in part, an acknowledgment of this new direction in protocol develo= pment. And others have written about it in the past: 2015: 2016: 2018: Looking back now, in 2022, how have those earlier predictions played out? D= o we have clear winners we can point to? Clear losers? This will help infor= m companies how they might want to engage with Open Source. Should companie= s embrace Open Source for protocol development? Or should companies go back= to the old way, with open specifications and private implementations? Please reply on the list or to me privately, and I will compile a list of r= esponses. Stuart Cheshire _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe ***[EXTERNAL] This message comes from an external organization. Exercise ca= ution when opening attachments or clicking links, especially from unknown s= enders.*** --_000_YT2PR01MB593327BB9DC7C59F9C7859EDB2159YT2PR01MB5933CANP_ Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="----------=_1647782737-1927652-77" ------------=_1647782737-1927652-77 content-type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stuart,

 

The Secure Reliable Tra= nsport (SRT) protocol might be an interesting example.

https://github.com/Haivision/srt

It has become an extrem= ely popular network protocol for a sub-second latency live video contributi= on and distribution.

 

It is an implementation= -driven protocol built on top of UDP. First created in 2013 based on the UDT. = Made free and open source in 2017.

The protocol has gained= a notable success because anyone could take the library, easily integrate = it in his/her project and have things ready for live streaming in quite a short time. Later the protocol was also included= into open-source projects like FFmpeg, VLC, GStreamer, Wireshark, etc. Tha= t had further simplified the effort needed to get things up and running.

 

The  SRT RFC draft<= /a> followed in 2021 to provide a normative description of how the protocol works, and to serve a reference point for further impr= ovements and extensions.

 

 

-- =

Kind regards,

Maxim Sharabayko

 





=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Maxim Sharabayko

Principal Researc= h Engineer

3D"Logo"




From: hackathon <hacka= thon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stuart Cheshire <cheshire=3D40app= le.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Saturday, 19. March 2022 at 00:47
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [hackathon] Open Source Software and network pro= tocol standards

Dear Hackathon crew= !

I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software and n= etwork protocol standards.

My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a signifi= cant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easi= ly accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network p= rotocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less su= ccess for those network protocol standards.

I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this intuition, b= ut it would be interesting to back up that intuition with concrete data.

I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples.

Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly= helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source imple= mentation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the proto= col standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the standards development process?
Are there cases of a networking protocol that did not become successful whe= re, in retrospect, it seems clear that the availability of an easily access= ible Open Source implementation would have helped?

And, of course, counterexamples are also interesting: recent protocols that= failed despite having a robust Open Source implementation, or recent proto= cols that succeeded despite having no Open Source implementation.

I am not the first person to think about the growing influence of Open Sour= ce on protocol development. Indeed, the existence of the IETF Hackathon its= elf is, in part, an acknowledgment of this new direction in protocol develo= pment. And others have written about it in the past:

2015: <https://www.ietfjournal.org/open-standards-open-source-open-lo= op/>
2016: <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ar= kko-ietf-trends-and-observations-00>
2018: <https://www.ietfjournal.org/three-years-on-open= -standards-open-source-open-loop/>

Looking back now, in 2022, how have those earlier predictions played out? D= o we have clear winners we can point to? Clear losers? This will help infor= m companies how they might want to engage with Open Source. Should companie= s embrace Open Source for protocol development? Or should companies go back to the old way, with open specifi= cations and private implementations?

Please reply on the list or to me privately, and I will compile a list of r= esponses.

Stuart Cheshire

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
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2D7FD2CD8F1; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:01:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Maxim Sharabayko cc: Stuart Cheshire , "hackathon@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:01:57 -0000 > Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards > My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standards. For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations for a number of years in the late '90s. The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. Paul From nobody Sun Mar 20 07:55:24 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCAC3A0C9A for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BnyxL04u1rvR for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F4F93A0C89 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.114] ([47.186.48.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.17.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 22KEtD3U000490 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:55:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1647788113; bh=pXstK4gbZ9ZrHYbveg284rUKNb1PEQwsj+pV9B2qc5g=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=FLqn5/1Py8U6LWxqO2M/FPGA1S+QlWY4ckabD53tI7Lb2Ky/q3dYUVRIbuvz7SWpp Fof56j+oXyuQwZazf11Dn3Hy/dvoadJPPXUwfm6BGoJfx5Mi+I2r6gy44mA1jvZ4Lh reUkgkYdU8Zm2Jifi2f3uF5Ybv6ZFPO/U628kUKg= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.48.51] claimed to be [192.168.1.114] Message-ID: <023d485d-bc6d-d24a-b7a5-4f521414db45@nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 09:55:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: hackathon@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:55:21 -0000 Guess I should point to the SIPits here (www.sipit.net) - there were open source SIP stacks that were core elements of many of the implementations at the event and their existence made it easy to prototype proposed changes to the specs when we discovered the need at the events (such as for what became RFC5393). RjS On 3/20/22 9:01 AM, Paul Wouters wrote: > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol >> standards > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a >> significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the >> availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing >> to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the >> lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less >> success for those network protocol standards. > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe From nobody Sun Mar 20 11:20:59 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4443A1418 for ; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box5867.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tomh.org X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 73.35.161.107 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1nW0AY-000YWc-Qq X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: c-73-35-161-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([192.168.168.110]) [73.35.161.107]:60520 X-Source-Auth: tomhorg X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dG9taG9yZzt0b21ob3JnO2JveDU4NjcuYmx1ZWhvc3QuY29t X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 18:20:55 -0000 On 3/18/22 16:47, Stuart Cheshire wrote: > Dear Hackathon crew! > > I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software and network protocol standards. > > My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standards. > > I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this intuition, but it would be interesting to back up that intuition with concrete data. > > I’d like to build a list of compelling examples. > > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent community following the standards development process? HIP (Host Identity Protocol) development was done in coordination with two open source implementations for Linux:  OpenHIP and HIPL.  Many of the same people working on the drafts were implementing at the same time, and holding interop/debugging sessions during IETF week in the IETF terminal room. - Tom From nobody Sun Mar 20 11:54:09 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E04F3A1534 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w5RMQqE4C_gm for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from drew.franken.de (drew.ipv6.franken.de [IPv6:2001:638:a02:a001:20e:cff:fe4a:feaa]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27C8E3A1533 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (ip1f100e7e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [31.16.14.126]) (Authenticated sender: macmic) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92739721E2806; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:53:58 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: Michael Tuexen In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:53:57 +0100 Cc: hackathon@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2733F68F-E225-4AD0-AC3D-5ABA8939E05D@fh-muenster.de> References: To: Stuart Cheshire X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 18:54:07 -0000 > On 19. Mar 2022, at 00:47, Stuart Cheshire = wrote: >=20 > Dear Hackathon crew! >=20 > I have a question about the relationship between Open Source Software = and network protocol standards. >=20 > My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a = significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the = availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to = the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of = easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for = those network protocol standards. >=20 > I suspect that many in the IETF Hackathon community share this = intuition, but it would be interesting to back up that intuition with = concrete data. >=20 > I=E2=80=99d like to build a list of compelling examples. >=20 > Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation = clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open = Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively = working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent = community following the standards development process? >=20 Hi Stuart, in the case of SCTP we always had in the past Open Source = implementations available when documents reached the WGLC. A lot of times it was the FreeBSD = kernel implementation. I really helped to understand if the specification is complete and = allowed other implementers to test against it. Best regards Michael From nobody Sun Mar 20 11:54:25 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D553A153A for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w9oKMhnMHfRL for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFEF83A1537 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1055C6256E; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id KxaNFuoHKVFJ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.160.11] (unknown [192.168.160.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 580E6624D4; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1dc901b1-1434-1ee4-9600-a5f22e0af980@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:54:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Paul Wouters , Maxim Sharabayko Cc: Stuart Cheshire , "hackathon@ietf.org" References: From: Robert Moskowitz In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 18:54:16 -0000 I ran MOST of those early IPsec/IKEv1 interop sessions until I wasn't.   Running them, that is. Michael and Tero were there for most of it, but Cisco, FTP Software, SSH, Checkpoint, NIST!, were as key along with FreeSWAN. I would say that the need for Inter-vendor connections (between companies running different products) was as much of a driver as open software for vpn use.  Further, that open vpn use was the beneficiary of commercial needs. Lots of interesting history of the early 'hackathons'.  In our first in Dallas, hosted by MCI, we found that we could not get SHA1 interop between to code libraries.  One had the endian wrong! Then in another, we blew the fuse on power draw for all the network gear and computers.  Some lost coding. Also it was 'fun' (not) to get security code back out of the US at that time.  SSH was faxing their diffs back home and wiping their drives to get them out of the US. Later interops were using FreeSwan as a target, but that was after the first interops worked out the kinks. On 3/20/22 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol >> standards > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a >> significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the >> availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing >> to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the >> lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less >> success for those network protocol standards. > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe From nobody Sun Mar 20 12:17:35 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC61A3A08C6 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:16:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNRNanBYLcgq for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED2513A07B4 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KM6tb4bnwz3Nq; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:16:39 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1647803799; bh=ZwrTjgYeaYgeGPbRMlnmBxCUNrLQeNffp6nxLuDPr00=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To; b=LmcF8zrDb4XDOJHh40TCb88hqxFkr9za2N2D/53X/fBn+6s/SqAk809HitgSmrvY1 nfs8jUcp24dosEa+SKQGMHX4uV5dFXXyUy1cb9L4lZ8zzuwnQfB1VWyGjiuWIOmVku xPxCL7WGCFAE8agWYci+XgjczprrpF7JNXDIS4eE= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8zfw_repEvh; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:16:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [193.110.157.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:16:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtpclient.apple (dhcp-9c99.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.153]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC1FF2CDB5D; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Paul Wouters Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:16:31 +0100 Message-Id: References: <1dc901b1-1434-1ee4-9600-a5f22e0af980@labs.htt-consult.com> Cc: Maxim Sharabayko , Stuart Cheshire , hackathon@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <1dc901b1-1434-1ee4-9600-a5f22e0af980@labs.htt-consult.com> To: Robert Moskowitz X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19D52) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:16:55 -0000 On Mar 20, 2022, at 19:55, Robert Moskowitz wrote= : I stand corrected. My hearsay seems to have been a tad subjective. As always= it=E2=80=99s great to hear IETF histories from the people who we actually t= here ! Paul >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI ran MOST of those early IPsec/IKEv1 interop sessions until I wa= sn't. Running them, that is. >=20 > Michael and Tero were there for most of it, but Cisco, FTP Software, SSH, C= heckpoint, NIST!, were as key along with FreeSWAN. >=20 > I would say that the need for Inter-vendor connections (between companies r= unning different products) was as much of a driver as open software for vpn u= se. Further, that open vpn use was the beneficiary of commercial needs. >=20 > Lots of interesting history of the early 'hackathons'. In our first in Da= llas, hosted by MCI, we found that we could not get SHA1 interop between to c= ode libraries. One had the endian wrong! >=20 > Then in another, we blew the fuse on power draw for all the network gear a= nd computers. Some lost coding. >=20 > Also it was 'fun' (not) to get security code back out of the US at that ti= me. SSH was faxing their diffs back home and wiping their drives to get the= m out of the US. >=20 > Later interops were using FreeSwan as a target, but that was after the fir= st interops worked out the kinks. >=20 >=20 >> On 3/20/22 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: >>=20 >>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol stand= ards >>=20 >>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a sign= ificant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of ea= sily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network p= rotocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open impl= ementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standard= s. >>=20 >> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where >> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations >> for a number of years in the late '90s. >>=20 >> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. >>=20 >> Paul >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe From nobody Sun Mar 20 13:25:32 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CBB63A0DE6 for ; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box5867.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tomh.org X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 73.35.161.107 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1nW26T-0024Vq-Cm X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: c-73-35-161-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([192.168.168.110]) [73.35.161.107]:34210 X-Source-Auth: tomhorg X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dG9taG9yZzt0b21ob3JnO2JveDU4NjcuYmx1ZWhvc3QuY29t X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:24:58 -0000 >> >> Can you think of cases where an Open Source Software implementation >> clearly helped a networking protocol become successful? Was that Open >> Source implementation driven by the people (or companies) actively >> working on the protocol standard? Or was it created by an independent >> community following the standards development process? > > HIP (Host Identity Protocol) development was done in coordination with > two open source implementations for Linux:  OpenHIP and HIPL.  Many of > the same people working on the drafts were implementing at the same > time, and holding interop/debugging sessions during IETF week in the > IETF terminal room. > I neglected to mention two other open source implementations of HIP that were part of the development process-- a team at Ericsson developed a HIP for NetBSD implementation, and Andrew McGregor wrote and posted an early userspace implementation in Python (PyHIP). Julien Laganier also had one going at some point, if I remember correctly, but I can't find artifacts of it today. So in summary, there were four or five HIP open source implementations during the standards development process. - Tom From nobody Sun Mar 20 13:56:10 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6B53A0E08 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CpELIhmW33Mg for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7A333A0DEF for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 982A22844C; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 16:55:57 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1647809757; bh=ebm9/VLecc+gxNWq5GhOY3OFo/15AhqOHsL7w3gL54w=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:From; b=O5w6O1eFl1cC7ESGK/JsZBQXau0QWBzkGNMGYhI4jf2DzhoQhlCRj7L+I2XlMd4Yt YTfTI9TC773aevYWxbDOZUj864Fvu+AkKuMkRrAcR3z+IO4Z+sjfGrUqgGep56Cz3L OJsgvzz2EVMzLERB54pOs3j7d6i61AvDmmqRO6vXGcYsR6ZF7tAlj8qBxYcXHtOD7T F9KlKsSyqBE5KUtPaXYz3Z6YA1BYB09HH+N3I1+KW1YPPYperPsUS82qVznWEL7/lP Da9kHCcfgck7SbVTk9p1H7QNlkbes1Qyn+Y2fmdTPhLc46FHVu0uTT7KXHJVa/+jnU 8rVxF1h6AXAUw== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Tom Pusateri Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 16:55:57 -0400 Message-Id: <3A506D92-7138-41BB-92D6-09105C2E7325@bangj.com> References: Cc: Chris Inacio , hackathon@ietf.org In-Reply-To: To: Stuart Cheshire X-Mailer: iPad Mail (19E241) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:56:06 -0000 > On Mar 19, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Stuart Cheshire wrote: >=20 > Good point Chris. Let=E2=80=99s remove the =E2=80=9Crecent=E2=80=9D caveat= . Examples others have given, like TCP/IP and HTTP, are very relevant data p= oints too. >=20 > Stuart Cheshire OSPF is a good example. We did a lot of interop testing and Rob Colton (UMD)= did an open source implementation that landed in gated (Cornell) which I wa= s a part of. John Moy (Protocol author/inventor, Proteon), Fred Baker (at AC= C at the time), Dino Farinacci (3com at the time), Der-Hwa Gan (also 3com), a= nd someone from Wellfleet who I don=E2=80=99t recall would do bake-offs wher= e we would gather in a hotel conference room and connect all the routers and= look for interop problems. Everyone would test against the open source vers= ion back at their labs as well as some of the closed source versions if you h= ad the right equipment. I remember a bake-off in Boston where we discovered a= bug in one of the closed source vendor implementations and everyone from al= l the companies just gathered around the laptop and looked at the source cod= e trying to find the bug. Those were the good old days! (1989) The bug was d= iscovered and fixed right then. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR11MB5053.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a9d0e187-a489-45fb-2e1c-08da0b1fe69f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Mar 2022 09:48:06.5867 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 4hBm2vjlSXyXGk5IGRI8efg9yGKb2KRROoTZ4W7sZGDkREGkZVR2IAjC/UyJSiUne2c7oJwHgnzgeFv9iAUcog== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1598 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.135.121, xfe-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Hackdemo Happy Hour, 17:00 - 18:30 TODAY, Grand Klimt Hall 1 X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:48:29 -0000 Hi Everyone,=20 Congrats and thank you for your part in a successful return to in-person Ha= ckathons. The collaboration within and across teams consisting of a mix of = local and remote participants was great to see. The project presentations w= ere great summaries of results and lessons learned despite the technical gl= itches encountered along the way. Hackdemo Happy Hour this evening provides an opportunity for more in depth = discussions with teams about their Hackathon projects. Several teams have s= igned up already. More are welcome. If you plan to participate, please make= sure to register your team/project by noon today. To register or to view the list of teams participating in Hackdemo Happy Ho= ur, see https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/113hackathon/hackdemo. Cheers, Charles= From nobody Mon Mar 21 13:41:39 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E60D3A1AF4 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iNigYzOfwN65 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D234A3A1B0B for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id s16so12616524qks.4 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=La9Vrxy3MdlqhCQhGDxCDzAGjgz/KQhZ8tXJJ5qMres=; b=MgNfo1l+VkzyUIeVxgKiqSwuMECo9cberIq0kjwpEgiKbwlIeOzAMSn3TGfrC623C1 ZFg7qurXhmVEvlegiJkWAMwRWJkuwwqGV9z/d9IpWkI0QOa9lU5BfgRz96Npq0Jwg3pe It5AztJl6peJisD1U+3LJ2J6zVyYmyX7xBnC8HhHASHiOlLQZ9zBtkVeARdy4Nk73/n1 CzxSYKZg/Cl9U3jks30XkQxqOaF/iIWW+kRHpWn2NhZXazo9dF/tmwlpEdA6LlLZLsV+ 0MHY7efBj1gYllz0A6sQ0zrMUqFHQt1Lp2J1fJYE6E6ER2nI+7N2zLEI0EDKX5zrmhIy xXyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=La9Vrxy3MdlqhCQhGDxCDzAGjgz/KQhZ8tXJJ5qMres=; b=xtzOzgk8ENAfchEE+9qUeu/w1tGKgfs9SF4aMD6b2ZII43FZWGeeMZhL7yOFq6xPPO RpheVLnvNbfo3tF2czgeJqkc7XbUPH1lcaqgIRJJEzkyhCuQ0DT6MpuSQMukIRoYfpq8 nsBFSicvqigI5p5w+mFmbRzjuTw45aYxQ11nJWBkuelXu4zv4nbiKr86PhxIQnSWksaC xNa0i0cMmdC6NBJ2xeOs4RHpSJPv91fHPC7ZyC/Gc4LPI2GiexJKNdoi8qTdHn9u6xCW MjvX8s2/TIDs8msOULnoF4qbUm6kRPbFUvaUpebUyjNgfvvAaedJufj4Me6IMjIO858R injg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533jPN/0/ispI8M0ZaL+exQN5YL99gUXM2Otr6fKy4jhHx1XLQ3v V9cb8CsY6NRY3k3ZT0aegOghqKFBqb0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJydVo+hR0icebuOTlw5SuwIMZaQhkj4TCa2AoJNRPKujHjxeiWrYGvBTyrAXkBENdQc39CUCw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:248c:b0:67d:b829:2570 with SMTP id i12-20020a05620a248c00b0067db8292570mr13590265qkn.429.1647895275381; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([173.73.135.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 186-20020a370cc3000000b0067d36e3481dsm8118987qkm.17.2022.03.21.13.41.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: RJ A In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:41:14 -0400 Cc: Stuart Cheshire Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <02628FF8-7174-44D9-A864-F52D70F75554@gmail.com> References: To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:41:18 -0000 NRL=E2=80=99s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the 1st with = IPv6 packets on the wire and also the 1st implementation of IPsec. It = was the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec = implementations and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations. = It was developed/tested both on SPARC and x86 hardware. Without NRL=E2=80=99s open-source implementation, IPsec would have taken = years longer to make it both into standards and into products. Ran From nobody Mon Mar 21 13:44:34 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128CB3A1B0E for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id heG4v_F_NdrW for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB5163A1B0B for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com with SMTP id k7so6888516qvc.4 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=qoNDBeNhXtUvfi5JDU34/txSXpWINduJz+8svg4zyO8=; b=Go05E646IUTjz5GzRgmeWTllupd8xXdEfDtViqjpjeB0d2+XVKxn+qYgmGiWP9fWIV ArXIawYbpOzSszDnmDWnmbqltB6ntwRnh0VeKICMN8tlXfspay2iKuBFJsIs0u+tO0PE Ofw2ZmLm756vBeYngrEZWZZlvL6vbCnRW0oVuXlHpMwTWKqRHW6/ZvAC57v6+Gbl9hh1 xhv2yx+H5BfsiL+984HGbsOXI5LKUm6d29JUfz7eytR3RRhzrdQeNOAeFjmi6zrcLu/5 zonpoVbolpTMmhHNEwvvpL2uNKW68CQAk6ElNEEoW1W5/w1yJiMIKdgo6D/ldMxTW1u/ D92w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=qoNDBeNhXtUvfi5JDU34/txSXpWINduJz+8svg4zyO8=; b=eq3yZc6+Z2aQfW7l0tM2sNy1VsOfW7cEHiFT3ujEf8Zpcri1Se/ilKhCyzaZIci1V4 FafgdQ2xWDhyZiOViccQPRXFcVVhBk8Wi6j1ysUo9iGGYhZKDw4lK/Nf9qfvFmJctAdL jXg1/8YvJ+Q1K17EvNRctVwpnzeryrrfPru0izgbrOZEVNM/vipWZn411pm+1q6M7HaZ aPMim42TD+exqYjPT9U3CJdv3U1w36GOvh5e9B7/+nkw5u4rJX6WHln7Q1MbzqEByMgA LDphy8By2IxRi+4rbF2TIevXs+3dTBgs+IdMj54Cik/80+tNyZRbFf+2VLh6ChelXBz1 rVNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5306qU5RfX2z3Ef0BerVMSXEZMxDPwxBca4alw8h72nSrDNRERRk 4pVD5kg4yZ40dOTrKMKdM8OxtzNHlQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxNvdzFw2vtOjCTrz/fN1ESMNaAbL/tgIOK89ALQGNuJVABIZUEEsjWAmj1CO8UXFKcV4Z0g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:224f:b0:43f:d536:d014 with SMTP id c15-20020a056214224f00b0043fd536d014mr17656469qvc.50.1647895466310; Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([173.73.135.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o206-20020a37a5d7000000b0067d42fd49c3sm8269426qke.4.2022.03.21.13.44.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Mar 2022 13:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: RA In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:44:24 -0400 Cc: Stuart Cheshire Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:44:32 -0000 NRL=E2=80=99s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for = many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also = was used in some early IPv6 implementations. It was developed/tested = both on SPARC and x86. IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source = implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products. Ran > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: >=20 >=20 >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol = standards >=20 >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a = significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the = availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to = the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of = easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for = those network protocol standards. >=20 > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events = where > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial = implementations > for a number of years in the late '90s. >=20 > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. >=20 > Paul >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe From nobody Mon Mar 21 23:12:30 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FBB3A087E for ; 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boundary="_000_PH0PR11MB5127ED38A0B3B08E532BD7AEA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PH0PR11MB5127.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4864218a-e4a9-4270-985c-08da0bcaea05 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Mar 2022 06:12:16.2474 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2YMjLl442H6TEBwMQy9yJc5tug65K8nTGXlKzI7hAk6FHzo6fNHKedHzB/VjrUPzXA3rvt1xZHY6CQhXqgR9gw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2237 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.135.124, xfe-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 06:12:28 -0000 --_000_PH0PR11MB5127ED38A0B3B08E532BD7AEA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec imple= metation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux. Shoichi ________________________________ From: hackathon on behalf of RA Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44 To: hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Stuart Cheshire Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standard= s NRL=92s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many (mos= t ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in s= ome early IPv6 implementations. It was developed/tested both on SPARC and = x86. IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementat= ion, both to standardize and to ship in products. Ran > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: > > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol stand= ards > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a sign= ificant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of e= asily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of networ= k protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open = implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol sta= ndards. > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe --_000_PH0PR11MB5127ED38A0B3B08E532BD7AEA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec imple= metation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux.

Shoichi
From: hackathon <hackath= on-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of RA <ran.atkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol s= tandards
 
NRL=92s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX wa= s the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementatio= ns and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was devel= oped/tested both on SPARC and x86.

IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementat= ion, both to standardize and to ship in products.

Ran


> On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:<= br> >
>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol= standards
>
>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had = a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availabilit= y of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of = network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less su= ccess for those network protocol standards.
>
> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] = events where
> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementation= s
> for a number of years in the late '90s.
>
> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time.=
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe
--_000_PH0PR11MB5127ED38A0B3B08E532BD7AEA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 02:51:25 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F303A0D6E for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 02:51:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vmb-3FsKlMlb for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 02:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D16E03A0D6F for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 02:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4355A6250B; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:50:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id qaCLtsumKOFD; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.160.11] (unknown [192.168.160.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E09FB623C1; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------oNhG5HtPXeUKsvIPueiCWSrk" Message-ID: <4dbb2170-fd33-bda9-0d60-2ef945133017@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:51:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Shoichi Sakane (ssakane)" , RA , "hackathon@ietf.org" Cc: Stuart Cheshire References: From: Robert Moskowitz In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:51:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------oNhG5HtPXeUKsvIPueiCWSrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks.  I was struggling to remember all the product participants and knew there was one from Japan... I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office. It was a challenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing the testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others.  I still have the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to figure out what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress reports. Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other testers limited. On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: > I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec > implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux. > > Shoichi > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* hackathon on behalf of RA > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44 > *To:* hackathon@ietf.org > *Cc:* Stuart Cheshire > *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > NRL’s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many > (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was > used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was developed/tested both > on SPARC and x86. > > IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source > implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products. > > Ran > > > > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > > > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a > significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the > availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to > the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack > of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success > for those network protocol standards. > > > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where > > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hackathon mailing list > > hackathon@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe:mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Standard Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C:248-219-2059 F:248-968-2824 E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit --------------oNhG5HtPXeUKsvIPueiCWSrk Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks.  I was struggling to remember all the product participants and knew there was one from Japan...

I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office.  It was a challenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing the testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others.  I still have the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to figure out what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress reports.

Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other testers limited.

On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote:
I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux.

Shoichi
From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of RA <ran.atkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
 
NRL’s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was developed/tested both on SPARC and x86.

IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products.

Ran


> On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>
>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
>
>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standards.
>
> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where
> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations
> for a number of years in the late '90s.
>
> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time.
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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hackathon@ietf.org
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Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

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--
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
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boundary="_000_PH0PR11MB5127239D469FACDB4954761BA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PH0PR11MB5127.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d3c1cf65-a48d-48d7-daf1-08da0bef82be X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Mar 2022 10:34:14.3732 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bIHrJPiNrK+l3pzG1rI20vJeQjw07sWgm8D7Lcl4+5xiCval+q/P/garhDuYNHTK2ThPdVltDH0tE60AoJI57A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR11MB2811 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.135.122, xfe-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:34:31 -0000 --_000_PH0PR11MB5127239D469FACDB4954761BA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, timezone was a big problem. So, I and Itojun joined many times of the= bakeoff events in person. Our implementation supported both IPv6 and IPv4= so that any participants was able to check interoperability with us. Shoichi ________________________________ From: Robert Moskowitz Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51 To: Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) ; RA ; hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Stuart Cheshire Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standard= s Thanks. I was struggling to remember all the product participants and knew= there was one from Japan... I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you wer= e part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office. It was a challe= nge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing the testin= g in the middle of local night to accommodate others. I still have the wor= ld timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to figure out= what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran down there) l= ogs I used for our progress reports. Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other test= ers limited. On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec imple= metation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux. Shoichi ________________________________ From: hackathon on behalf of RA Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44 To: hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Stuart Cheshire Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standard= s NRL=92s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many (mos= t ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in s= ome early IPv6 implementations. It was developed/tested both on SPARC and = x86. IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementat= ion, both to standardize and to ship in products. Ran > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters wrote: > > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol stand= ards > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a sign= ificant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of e= asily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of networ= k protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open = implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol sta= ndards. > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe -- Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C: 248-219-2059 F: 248-968-2824 E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets = the credit --_000_PH0PR11MB5127239D469FACDB4954761BA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, timezone was a big problem.  So, I and Itojun joined many times o= f the bakeoff events in person.  Our implementation supported both IPv= 6 and IPv4 so that any participants was able to check interoperability with= us.

Shoichi
From: Robert Moskowitz <= rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51
To: Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) <ssakane@cisco.com>; RA <ran.a= tkinson@gmail.com>; hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol s= tandards
 
Thanks.  I was struggling to remember all the product participant= s and knew there was one from Japan...

I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you wer= e part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office.  It was a c= hallenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing the t= esting in the middle of local night to accommodate others.  I still have the world timezone map up on my wal= l down in that office that I used to figure out what time it was for each o= f you, and the chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress = reports.

Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other test= ers limited.

On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane)= wrote:
I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec imple= metation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux.

Shoichi
From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of RA <ran.atkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol s= tandards
 
NRL=92s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX = was the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementat= ions and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was dev= eloped/tested both on SPARC and x86.

IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementat= ion, both to standardize and to ship in products.

Ran


> On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>
>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol= standards
>
>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had = a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availabilit= y of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of = network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less su= ccess for those network protocol standards.
>
> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] = events where
> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementation= s
> for a number of years in the late '90s.
>
> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time.=
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
= hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

____________________________________________=
___
hackathon mailing list
=
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?s=
ubject=3Dunsubscribe

--
Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:     &n= bsp;248-219-2059
F:     &n= bsp;248-968-2824
E:     &n= bsp;rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplis= hed if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
--_000_PH0PR11MB5127239D469FACDB4954761BA0179PH0PR11MB5127namp_-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 04:42:35 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632193A1156 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:42:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fi1fTkC4jt5G for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08B133A11AF for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 04:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393986250B; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:41:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8m9jVyMTn7-S; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.160.11] (unknown [192.168.160.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7017A623C1; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------TYOi707JIq0IT9tFJOzgAkNG" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:42:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: "Shoichi Sakane (ssakane)" , RA , "hackathon@ietf.org" Cc: Stuart Cheshire References: <4dbb2170-fd33-bda9-0d60-2ef945133017@labs.htt-consult.com> From: Robert Moskowitz In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:42:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------TYOi707JIq0IT9tFJOzgAkNG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to think we all had fun back then.  Really accomplishing something. On 3/22/22 06:34, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: > Yes, timezone was a big problem.  So, I and Itojun joined many times > of the bakeoff events in person.  Our implementation supported both > IPv6 and IPv4 so that any participants was able to check > interoperability with us. > > Shoichi > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Robert Moskowitz > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51 > *To:* Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) ; RA > ; hackathon@ietf.org > *Cc:* Stuart Cheshire > *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > Thanks.  I was struggling to remember all the product participants and > knew there was one from Japan... > > I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but > you were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office.  It > was a challenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us > doing the testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others.  > I still have the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office > that I used to figure out what time it was for each of you, and the > chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress reports. > > Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other > testers limited. > > On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: >> I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec >> implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux. >> >> Shoichi >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* hackathon >> on behalf of RA >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44 >> *To:* hackathon@ietf.org >> >> *Cc:* Stuart Cheshire >> *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol >> standards >> NRL’s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many >> (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was >> used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was developed/tested >> both on SPARC and x86. >> >> IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source >> implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products. >> >> Ran >> >> >> > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters >> wrote: >> > >> > >> >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol >> standards >> > >> >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had >> a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the >> availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing >> to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the >> lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less >> success for those network protocol standards. >> > >> > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events >> where >> > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations >> > for a number of years in the late '90s. >> > >> > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. >> > >> > Paul >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > hackathon mailing list >> > hackathon@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> >> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> hackathon mailing list >> hackathon@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon >> Unsubscribe:mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe > > -- > Robert Moskowitz > Owner > HTT Consulting > C: 248-219-2059 > F: 248-968-2824 > E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com > > There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who > gets the credit > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe:mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Standard Robert Moskowitz Owner HTT Consulting C:248-219-2059 F:248-968-2824 E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit --------------TYOi707JIq0IT9tFJOzgAkNG Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to think we all had fun back then.  Really accomplishing something.

On 3/22/22 06:34, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote:
Yes, timezone was a big problem.  So, I and Itojun joined many times of the bakeoff events in person.  Our implementation supported both IPv6 and IPv4 so that any participants was able to check interoperability with us.

Shoichi
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51
To: Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) <ssakane@cisco.com>; RA <ran.atkinson@gmail.com>; hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
 
Thanks.  I was struggling to remember all the product participants and knew there was one from Japan...

I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office.  It was a challenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing the testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others.  I still have the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to figure out what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress reports.

Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other testers limited.

On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote:
I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux.

Shoichi
From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of RA <ran.atkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
 
NRL’s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations.  It was developed/tested both on SPARC and x86.

IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products.

Ran


> On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>
>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
>
>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standards.
>
> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where
> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations
> for a number of years in the late '90s.
>
> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time.
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

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hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

--
Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit

_______________________________________________
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hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe

--
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:      248-219-2059
F:      248-968-2824
E:      rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
--------------TYOi707JIq0IT9tFJOzgAkNG-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 05:45:13 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB9C3A122E for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:45:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XWFjBjOBO5x for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [193.110.157.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECBCA3A1227 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 05:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4KNB5T0rNyz3mt; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:44:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1647953085; bh=nrOqcIW2VEZRhnu4p2Xvw8exnTZBMqpZZbpwA84z4RE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=fbqswWNRX6pqCgIOhuhJakkPtXcrchE7RmN4kq4vbswbvci77K8Y7f6dGSuF/Xlxr zrgMvSG4J7grWS9NeKakmkP25H2e/0vMgobHwL0temAWI6bJ5+CpDZZucL6+dn01dB WgmuicYJxWZAl4uzlymg9r0m3uy6pHqLBJOi2sBM= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xjcgBd-FV_-5; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:44:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (bofh.nohats.ca [193.110.157.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 13:44:44 +0100 (CET) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 497452CEF40; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 464512CEF3F; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:44:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Robert Moskowitz cc: "hackathon@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4dbb2170-fd33-bda9-0d60-2ef945133017@labs.htt-consult.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 12:45:12 -0000 On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > I would like to think we all had fun back then.  Really accomplishing something. We are ALL individual implementations ! :) Paul From nobody Tue Mar 22 07:46:58 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2243C3A14D4 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AsBXHrfSqe9x for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 658743A1600 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id b189so14080985qkf.11 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=pMtdLKlgcuAXGqQwKPe/ar/PZzURnkDaoWQGY4T4JQM=; b=DXrlI/l/C88fKAICI+oaVox+3okkmeHGJ8H76l0PgEA6byF33+rD+H8YenDzSHwUlf q7H+WAprgv1OyCIuthAIaBNN8C36xo4tr19/N8sDrQh45uMR3g9dTQmpi8wQ0oVQq5Zq nCU3XcuGhiHLMNr+TQutm4DUDziCdFaaTcpETFlUV0wT9/wx0WTUwWcd1Hc363KzaSqu 3voTv/oOu+oW3ekJhoAz44KC8HPr/mWmK2J4hJjrHhRM9IHZ9ePnH8Yz+9DquxH/YbBd DStVY6NWrN+6KisjAL/degLBJuTgFTwQsmlDKtavEdBTZq6MYiWzQvs15NJ+L2fNMCeU QByA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=pMtdLKlgcuAXGqQwKPe/ar/PZzURnkDaoWQGY4T4JQM=; b=Wbbd20LTnrOfbMa+cp7/C6mVwWEIo21z5HV86hPo9wQblbLt16vjdLI7k2cWbKKyfa fFuaNNuk4hDRfZLnElfpTcSwQTHl4xrihn7KHOL9g/ZJcoKn6lyiSzvZIutiomQJ7r2H BFANFY2W5tHVurRHdqhVAf/hPurGCmILG4tjfb0fKRjBF27u3Nh7U7nWozyg5GcxPHhg vdvUo6+AsrTLTo+ASHbGw5chHJ7P/kZ9byS88z8uld0oAbQs/TOweNIma/jexnEVLlB+ YYsIACv7VQA8NrA3s3AcR2kHgQl+J5hMBoT3i5lwTUvzU6M+QYj9YwB+ssjYxseXaCEH TlUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+q7pz4BrjjvE2tmW8dGggg1ISWmsXeCzd2EExaORatpfqWvaY JAtTjpKIef5TYfbcZ0aglqKPgmZ3JUg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJ4PGlp0NR5qgkN3t+8HpX6sqYnQQqYMRZU4GxXu8GQURGhJ4ng1izwnH6QccerPkaa9soMA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:460b:b0:67d:1cd4:527e with SMTP id br11-20020a05620a460b00b0067d1cd4527emr15422062qkb.277.1647960399907; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([173.73.135.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j28-20020a05620a147c00b0067e765e6c0asm4318753qkl.21.2022.03.22.07.46.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.80.82.1.1\)) From: RJ A In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:46:38 -0400 Cc: Robert Moskowitz , Stuart Cheshire Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4E0E5173-7857-4283-8921-3DF334ED91F7@gmail.com> References: <4dbb2170-fd33-bda9-0d60-2ef945133017@labs.htt-consult.com> To: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.80.82.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:46:56 -0000 > On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: >> I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec = implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and = Linux. >>=20 >> Shoichi Yes. I remember very well working with Itojun on many IPv6 things. It = is a very big loss that he is gone. At the time, I was hearing that the KAME IPv6+IPsec also was widely = referenced by commercial implementers. =20 The Racoon implementation of IKEv1 was especially important. I am not = certain, but I think Racoon was the 1st open-source implementation of = IKEv1 for BSD. As far as I know, NRL never implemented IKE, because it = was too difficult to get release permissions for IKE. Ran From nobody Tue Mar 22 07:53:53 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2AF3A14FB for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:53:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nf8fgyzll-Qx for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x32c.google.com (mail-ot1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A66B3A14FE for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id t8-20020a0568301e2800b005b235a56f2dso12646926otr.9 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SeO6N25o0a85LHUaG8DEfeY3N6Bffj8Z4l9Fir9q8eg=; b=aTIpOlcRstb6NV4/TRPpryzbOM7BbCbh80I5c+oHEXtcklwyT9UPIKI11YdBkL5+lN JAQhNBYdUQuITDkFw4hhaPWxV0LEQ0NhNdKsBD52+etkAutToXobldNaIY62qDUH+RWH Z5eCQp7OhAbYo7dtLRgfBTuPrLGC5OrSbW7UMB9tf2gJHppcPFQ4cA06LZXp3ig6fHv+ qnAyRFYi/q09IUItosW16lWHLGYmgH1Oy/C0bML1Do0Pf+hce9j+SsDs2SmuQvmOybTG Wooa+zW8i8G8Tp+fgWBugv21q1xgB5/8cf1syxw8ELxBXwpJjNaozJB0pMEMj4DnYjjP Faig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SeO6N25o0a85LHUaG8DEfeY3N6Bffj8Z4l9Fir9q8eg=; b=r4aX+KY5mi9oloiydu4ibYKvqpsq2N7ZzNGGO4C40KA2b+8vCihXlf2ZSM7G2kT+eQ hrWh4f6tMwcadkzhkSglwL+bY49EwKwBFSULKZaoJRhlXOWhod6PJT6k1IhrGlw36hIs /Wbwbpz+6JGYnn7TpYTy55t/2TXFBaK2N9cRdSN8FOitRgpaNEcp6rEPnrs+so81o65o rIZX+I8YxomJiHzeuok7AkVXe0AfikARoBzQHoFFTLNzsJx+HfC14rUU8KQeiEUNvtg/ 2DjcUwH3cjIQdTZBut6sd3SACh9JMwxlTAp3UhcXETeG3ugiTZJ0z/a1QonNG1hkAAcL uGrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533lB3a/nDkRqF3lwLjzfZmz1FVwHwHsKkzpfQTys9sDdI+kxiK9 gpD8Ke/9LGdfGFO6fa4WOzJ/ibwlENDT05DXrE4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxKl1YNZOXvObLJ65Yi1gJw5+9c6Fn6TMop+IQfCNqK61LRQ/29RMCqE5BvQL/KJAhzMhRj+Ffo6eQzorDGI6g= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:25d6:b0:5c9:49ef:3c5b with SMTP id d22-20020a05683025d600b005c949ef3c5bmr10135536otu.331.1647960824604; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 07:53:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4dbb2170-fd33-bda9-0d60-2ef945133017@labs.htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: From: Diego Dujovne Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:53:33 -0300 Message-ID: To: Robert Moskowitz Cc: "Shoichi Sakane (ssakane)" , RA , "hackathon@ietf.org" , Stuart Cheshire Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008dea7a05dacfc7a2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:53:51 -0000 --0000000000008dea7a05dacfc7a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stuart, I would like to mention OpenWSN, which is the reference for the 6tisch WG IoT stack. It was also used at the Interop sessions. Regards, Diego On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 8:43 AM Robert Moskowitz wrote: > I would like to think we all had fun back then. Really accomplishing > something. > > On 3/22/22 06:34, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: > > Yes, timezone was a big problem. So, I and Itojun joined many times of > the bakeoff events in person. Our implementation supported both IPv6 and > IPv4 so that any participants was able to check interoperability with us. > > Shoichi > ------------------------------ > *From:* Robert Moskowitz > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51 > *To:* Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) ; > RA ; hackathon@ietf.org > > *Cc:* Stuart Cheshire > *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > > Thanks. I was struggling to remember all the product participants and > knew there was one from Japan... > > I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you > were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office. It was a > challenge to coordinate everyone's testing time, with some of us doing th= e > testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others. I still have > the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to > figure out what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran > down there) logs I used for our progress reports. > > Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other > testers limited. > > On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote: > > I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec > implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux. > > Shoichi > ------------------------------ > *From:* hackathon > on behalf of RA > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44 > *To:* hackathon@ietf.org > *Cc:* Stuart Cheshire > *Subject:* Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > > NRL=E2=80=99s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for m= any (most > ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in > some early IPv6 implementations. It was developed/tested both on SPARC a= nd > x86. > > IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source > implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products. > > Ran > > > > On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters > wrote: > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol > standards > > > >> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a > significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availabilit= y > of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of > network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessib= le > open implementations contributing to less success for those network > protocol standards. > > > > For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events wher= e > > FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations > > for a number of years in the late '90s. > > > > The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time. > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hackathon mailing list > > hackathon@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing listhackathon@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > > > -- > Robert Moskowitz > Owner > HTT Consulting > C: 248-219-2059 > F: 248-968-2824 > E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com > > There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who get= s > the credit > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing listhackathon@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > > > -- > Robert Moskowitz > Owner > HTT Consulting > C: 248-219-2059 > F: 248-968-2824 > E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com > > There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who get= s > the credit > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@ietf.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe > --0000000000008dea7a05dacfc7a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stuart,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I wou= ld like to mention OpenWSN,
which is the reference for the 6tisch= WG IoT stack. It was also used at the Interop
sessions.=C2=A0
Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Diego

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 8:43 AM Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> = wrote:
=20 =20 =20
I would like to think we all had fun back then.=C2=A0 Really accomplishing something.

On 3/22/22 06:34, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote:
=20 =20
Yes, timezone was a big problem.=C2=A0 So, I and Itojun joined many times of the bakeoff events in person.=C2=A0 Our implementation supported both IPv6 and IPv4 so that any participants was able to check interoperability with us.

Shoichi
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 18:51
To: Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) <ssakane@cisco.com>; RA &l= t;ran.atkinson@gmail.com>; hackathon@ietf.org <hacka= thon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
=C2=A0
Thanks.=C2=A0 I was struggling to remember all the product participants and knew there was one from Japan...

I don't recall if you made it to any of the in-person interops, but you were part of the remote ones I ran out of my basement office.=C2=A0 It was a challenge to coordinate everyone's testi= ng time, with some of us doing the testing in the middle of local night to accommodate others.=C2=A0 I still have the world timezone map up on my wall down in that office that I used to figure out what time it was for each of you, and the chat server (I ran down there) logs I used for our progress reports.

Challenge was you were already at IPv6 and it made connecting to other testers limited.

On 3/22/22 02:12, Shoichi Sakane (ssakane) wrote:
=20
I would be happy if you all IPsec guys remembered the KAME IPv6/IPsec implemetation and racoon for IKEv1/v2 which is ported on MacOS and Linux.

Shoichi
From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of RA &= lt;ran.atkinson@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 5:44
To: hackathon@ietf.org <hackathon@ietf.org>
Cc: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
=C2=A0
NRL=E2=80=99s open-source IPv6+IPsec for 4.4 BSD UNIX was the basis for many (most ?) 1st generation commercial IPsec implementations and also was used in some early IPv6 implementations.=C2=A0 It was developed/tested both on SPARC and x86.

IPsec would have taken years longer without the NRL open-source implementation, both to standardize and to ship in products.

Ran


> On Mar 20, 2022, at 10:01, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>
>
>> Subject: Re: [hackathon] Open Source Software and network protocol standards
>
>> My intuition is that in recent years Open Source Software has had a significant impact on network protocol standards, both in the availability of easily accessible open implementations contributing to the success of network protocol standards, and, in contrast, the lack of easily accessible open implementations contributing to less success for those network protocol standards.
>
> For IKEv1 / IPsec there were a number of "bake off" [tm][r] events where
> FreeSWAN was the main interop target for all commercial implementations
> for a number of years in the late '90s.
>
> The software and protocol were evolving/implementing at the same time.
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> hackathon mailing list
> hackathon@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
> Unsubscribe: mailto:hackathon-request@iet= f.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

_______________________________________________
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Robert Moskowitz
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=20 =20 Robert Moskowitz
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There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who gets the credit
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