Subject: [hrpc] Late review

From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:11:50 -0500

Hi,

I believe this was just done against -09.

Was given permission to pass it on.

avri

-------- Original message --------

From: Michael Gurstein <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>

Date: 2/3/17 17:59 (GMT-05:00)

To: "Forum@Justnetcoalition. Org <mailto:Forum@Justnetcoalition.%20Org>"
<[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>

Cc: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>

Subject: FW: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-research-08.txt

This is a remarkable and remarkably useful document. 

My two comments/caveats are (and they both refer to Human Rights and the
UDHR) in general:
1. the report makes no reference and has no usefulness in the area of
"collective/group rights" as for example "the right to collective
bargaining", to "collective self-determination", to "collective expressions
of political opposition" (e.g. including those conducted on-line) except as
they can be parsed or reverted to "individual rights"--In a world going
crazier by the day with the strong likelihood that individual rights will be
increasingly difficult to maintain (and of less and less use in challenging
political authority) this strikes me as a significant gap although it was
clearly not what the work involved with this document was directed towards.

2. the report makes no reference and has no usefulness in the area of
"social justice" as for example in the economic (and social) distribution
effects of the Internet. Again with reference to the current political
situation, the Internet and those who have been developing it and driving it
(and who have systematically ignored (or derided) its social justice impact)
bare some responsibility for the political malformations that we are seeing
in several jurisdictions where the broad support of the Internet for
globalization was in no way matched by a concern for the localized
impacts of
globalization.  Again, of course this was clearly not what the work involved
with this document was directed towards.

I think that it is a pity that these two issues were not addressed and one
would hope that in any future efforts in these areas the very very
significant matters which collective rights and social justice raise not
only for the Internet but also for society in general will have a
significant priority.

But nevertheless I congratulate all those who worked on this document for
their very important efforts.

(And Avri you can take my comments as "review" as per your request.

M

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From: Corinne Cath <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 17:15:21 +0100

Dear Michael,

Thank you for your review. Some comments in-line responding to your great
suggestions.

> This is a remarkable and remarkably useful document.
​
Thanks!​

> ​Thank you for pointing this out. Although group rights are relevant to
the work done at the HRPC group we have decided to focus our initial
efforts on first and second generation human rights. As much as we would
like to cover broader issues, at this point in time we have to limit the
scope of the research. We have also focused on individual rights as these
are clearly enshrined in globally recognized UN human rights documents,
like the ones you mention. Such broad documents are harder to come by for
group rights's issues. However, we will certainly consider your suggestions
for future work in this area.

​

> with this document was directed towards.

​Again a very good point. However, much as we believe that social justice
issues are of equal importance as some of the things we cover we also
believe that the GAIA working group is better placed to cover the specific
issues you mentioned. And while social justice issues regularly overlap
with human right issues, considering the strong legal basis that exist for
understanding, and incorporating human rights in organizational processes
​the focus of this research groups has been on the human rights.

> only for the Internet but also for society in general will have a

​Noted! ​

> _______________________________________________
> hrpc mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc
>

-- 
Corinne J.N. Cath
Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute

Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
Email: [email-masked] & [email-masked]
Twitter: @C_Cath