Subject: [hrpc] re RFC 8280

From: Sandra Braman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:43:04 +0800

Access to information is generally considered fundamental to human rights,
including freedom of expression and on. What was the thinking of the
authors of this document that led to the absence of this human right in the
RFC?

Thanks --

Sandra Braman

---

From: Niels ten Oever <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 04:31:30 +0100

Hmmmm - interesting. Did not think of it. 

How do you think this could / would work on protocol level?

If you have a suggestion, we can add it to:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tenoever-hrpc-guidelines-01

If you want you can always be a co-author too!

Best,

Niels

> _______________________________________________
> hrpc mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc

-- 

Niels ten Oever
Head of Digital

Article 19
www.article19.org

PGP fingerprint	   2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488  
                   643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 11:49:00 +0800

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 12:43:04AM +0800,
 Sandra Braman <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 40 lines which said:

> Access to information is generally considered fundamental to human
> rights, including freedom of expression and on. What was the
> thinking of the authors of this document that led to the absence of
> this human right in the RFC?

Isn't "censorship resistance" enough? It is quite present in RFC 8280.

---

From: Roland Bless <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 05:04:54 +0100

Hi Sandra,

On 13.11.2017 at 17:43 Sandra Braman wrote:
> rights, including freedom of expression and on. What was the thinking of
> the authors of this document that led to the absence of this human right
> in the RFC?

Probably you need to qualify this by using "generally accessible
information" or "freely available information" since some information on
the Internet isn't freely accessible or available for all on purpose,
e.g., company confidential data or your private collection of photos.

I think that is right is not explicitly mentioned but still present in
the document, e.g., in the Introduction:
   Additionally, access to
   freely available information gives people access to knowledge that
   enables them to help satisfy other human rights; as such, the
   Internet increasingly becomes a precondition for human rights rather
   than a supplement.

Moreover, all the discussions around censorship in RFC8280 touch it.

Regards,
 Roland

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:37:21 -0500

I might have the source wrong but Thomas Jefferson said that public
libraries were essential to freedom because they were the only place
the average person could read the laws which govern them.

The internet, beyond the many other things it can do, fits that
description in our modern age. It provides simple and straightforward
access to the law. Denying someone that access could put them at a
serious disadvantage.

On November 14, 2017 at 04:31 [email-masked] (Niels ten Oever) wrote:
 > x[DELETED ATTACHMENT signature.asc, application/pgp-signature]

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | [email-masked]             | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:25:15 +0800

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 02:37:21PM -0500,
 [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote 

> the average person could read the laws which govern them.

Since today, the only place where the average person could read the
laws which govern them is the Internet, do you mean that access to the
Internet should be regarded as a human right?

I have sympathy for that view point but do note it has practical
consequences. For instance, this would require some way to provide
access even for the poorest people (mandatory service for the ISPs?
Gratis PC?)

---

From: Michael Breuer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:44:29 +0100

> access even for the poorest people (mandatory service for the ISPs?

AFAIK most public libraries provide access to the Internet these days.