
From nobody Tue May  2 12:29:23 2017
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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Incomplete responses and immutable (#325)
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I think we ought to close this issue as not relevant in any special way to immutable.

The issue you are talking about is that conditional reloads do not work for fixing corrupted content because they re validate headers and not the corrupted content. The presence of immutable doesn't really matter to that equation - all it does is bypass a conditional request that wasn't working right anyhow because it is unaware the corruption is in the message body. You can insert this proposed rule to 'fix' that, but it doesn't fix all the resources without immutable that have the same problem for the same reason. The problem has nothing to do with immutable.

I could support a rule for all resources that says clients SHOULD NOT issue a conditional revalidation when the stored response is potentially corrupted (i.e. they should do force reloads) - indeed that's firefox policy. but its not really immutable specific.

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<p>I think we ought to close this issue as not relevant in any special wa=
y to immutable.</p>
<p>The issue you are talking about is that conditional reloads do not wor=
k for fixing corrupted content because they re validate headers and not t=
he corrupted content. The presence of immutable doesn't really matter to =
that equation - all it does is bypass a conditional request that wasn't w=
orking right anyhow because it is unaware the corruption is in the messag=
e body. You can insert this proposed rule to 'fix' that, but it doesn't f=
ix all the resources without immutable that have the same problem for the=
 same reason. The problem has nothing to do with immutable.</p>
<p>I could support a rule for all resources that says clients SHOULD NOT =
issue a conditional revalidation when the stored response is potentially =
corrupted (i.e. they should do force reloads) - indeed that's firefox pol=
icy. but its not really immutable specific.</p>

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cmanus in #325: I think we ought to close this issue as not relevant in a=
ny special way to immutable.\r\n\r\nThe issue you are talking about is th=
at conditional reloads do not work for fixing corrupted content because t=
hey re validate headers and not the corrupted content. The presence of im=
mutable doesn't really matter to that equation - all it does is bypass a =
conditional request that wasn't working right anyhow because it is unawar=
e the corruption is in the message body. You can insert this proposed rul=
e to 'fix' that, but it doesn't fix all the resources without immutable t=
hat have the same problem for the same reason. The problem has nothing to=
 do with immutable.\r\n\r\nI could support a rule for all resources that =
says clients SHOULD NOT issue a conditional revalidation when the stored =
response is potentially corrupted (i.e. they should do force reloads) - i=
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Fair enough. I'll raise an issue on the http11bis repo.

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<p>Fair enough. I'll raise an issue on the http11bis repo.</p>

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Closed #325.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/325" data-id="221425851" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#325</a>.</p>

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Seems to have been addressed.

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<p>Seems to have been addressed.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] client hints generally uses "headers" to refer to "header fields" (#320)
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Closed #320.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/320" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/320" data-id="218543161" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#320</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Remove note about the counter (8c31395)
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Issue still

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<p>Issue still</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Fix abstract wrt what this document obsoletes (#334)
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Thanks!

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<p>Thanks!</p>

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Merged #334.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/334" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/334" data-id="224469687" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#334</a>.</p>

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Merged #335.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/335" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/335" data-id="224471893" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#335</a>.</p>

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Merged #336.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/336" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/336" data-id="224472136" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#336</a>.</p>

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I knew there had to be a way to do this. :) Thanks!

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<p>I knew there had to be a way to do this. :) Thanks!</p>

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Merged #337.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/337" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/337" data-id="224474791" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#337</a>.</p>

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Merged #338.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/338" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/338" data-id="224774426" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#338</a>.</p>

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This is very cool. I didn't see this kind of linking mechanism in the kramdown-rfc2629 docs... is there a list of the supported syntatical sugar somewhere I should skim through?

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<p>This is very cool. I didn't see this kind of linking mechanism in the kramdown-rfc2629 docs... is there a list of the supported syntatical sugar somewhere I should skim through?</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Explicitly note case-sensitivity of prefix (#221)
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I pulled this into https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis-01#section-5.3 (steps 13 and 14). Thanks!

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<p>I pulled this into <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis-01#section-5.3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis-01#section-5.3</a> (steps 13 and 14). Thanks!</p>

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Closed #221.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/221" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/221" data-id="170212784" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#221</a>.</p>

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This seems to have turned editorial (as Erik originally suggested). 

Erik, if you can make specific proposals on what needs to be changed, that would be helpful.

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<p>This seems to have turned editorial (as Erik originally suggested).</p>
<p>Erik, if you can make specific proposals on what needs to be changed, that would be helpful.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] define `cache-digest` header in appendix (#341)
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mnot commented on this pull request.



> @@ -263,8 +276,8 @@ we can determine whether there is a match in the digest using the following algo
 
 # IANA Considerations
 
-This draft currently has no requirements for IANA. If the CACHE_DIGEST frame is standardised, it
-will need to be assigned a frame type.
+This draft currently has no requirements for IANA.
+If the specification is standardised, the CACHE_DIGEST frame will need to be assigned a frame type and the Cache-Digest header will need to be registered.

I'm afraid this isn't adequate; if an RFC -- even an experimental one -- defines a header, it really needs to register it. I can do a separate PR if you like.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/341#discussion_r115906541">draft-ietf-httpbis-cache-digest.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -263,8 +276,8 @@ we can determine whether there is a match in the digest using the following algo
 
 # IANA Considerations
 
-This draft currently has no requirements for IANA. If the CACHE_DIGEST frame is standardised, it
-will need to be assigned a frame type.
+This draft currently has no requirements for IANA.
+If the specification is standardised, the CACHE_DIGEST frame will need to be assigned a frame type and the Cache-Digest header will need to be registered.
</pre>
<p>I'm afraid this isn't adequate; if an RFC -- even an experimental one -- defines a header, it really needs to register it. I can do a separate PR if you like.</p>

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Merged #328.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/328" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/328" data-id="222598316" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#328</a>.</p>

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Thank you so much for the improvements. This PR is a tremendous opportunity for me to improve my skills (both in terms of writing a specification and in terms of English).

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<p>Thank you so much for the improvements. This PR is a tremendous opportunity for me to improve my skills (both in terms of writing a specification and in terms of English).</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Viewport Height (#342)
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With the slow but continual adoption of CSS grid's and allowing of 2 dimensional layouts, as well as the push to eliminate render blocking CSS for initial views, it would be incredibly useful to be able to capture both the width and height of the requesting viewport to handle server side inclusion of the specific styles needed for the initial view. This allows developers to not have to tightly align their markup creation with the style creation and maintain the separation of concerns.

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<p>With the slow but continual adoption of CSS grid's and allowing of 2 dimensional layouts, as well as the push to eliminate render blocking CSS for initial views, it would be incredibly useful to be able to capture both the width and height of the requesting viewport to handle server side inclusion of the specific styles needed for the initial view. This allows developers to not have to tightly align their markup creation with the style creation and maintain the separation of concerns.</p>

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Closed #333.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/333" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/333" data-id="224468682" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#333</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] text about why RFC 3490 is cited is missing (#343)
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See the annotation in https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc6265.html#RFC3490 

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<p>See the annotation in <a href="https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc6265.html#RFC3490">https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc6265.html#RFC3490</a></p>

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Opened https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/42

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<p>Opened <a href="https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/42" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629/issues/42" data-id="229266388" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#42</a></p>

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Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 03:07:00 -0700
To: httpwg/http-extensions <http-extensions@noreply.github.com>
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] augment downref to RFC 3490 with explanation (see #343) (#344)
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(taken from 6265)

Note this requires kramdown-rfc2629 version 1.2.2 or newer  - please make sure to use this when generating submissions
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344

-- Commit Summary --

  * augment downref to RFC 3490 with explanation (see #343)

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md (11)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.diff

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<p>(taken from 6265)</p>
<p>Note this requires kramdown-rfc2629 version 1.2.2 or newer  - please make sure to use this when generating submissions</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>augment downref to RFC 3490 with explanation (see #343)</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md</a>
    (11)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] update UTS46 reference (#345)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345

-- Commit Summary --

  * update UTS46 reference

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>update UTS46 reference</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346

-- Commit Summary --

  * prune boilerplate

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure.md (3)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>prune boilerplate</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure.md</a>
    (3)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/346.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347

-- Commit Summary --

  * augment CSRF citation

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md (6)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>augment CSRF citation</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md</a>
    (6)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] EARLY-hints requirement on "client MUST NOT process" headers needs better wording (#319)
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Closed #319.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/319" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/319" data-id="218536805" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#319</a>.</p>

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Collision with my suggested edits; closing. Please ask to reopen if you still think there's a problem; we can address it in WGLC.

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<p>Collision with my suggested edits; closing. Please ask to reopen if you still think there's a problem; we can address it in WGLC.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect-CT report-uri should be quoted (#312)
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Closed #312.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/312" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/312" data-id="214211486" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#312</a>.</p>

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On second thought. I'm going to WontFix this. I don't think there's any reason that the report-uri has to be quoted, and since the syntax already differs somewhat from HPKP, I don't think we need to match the examples in the HPKP spec that closely.

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<p>On second thought. I'm going to WontFix this. I don't think there's any =
reason that the report-uri has to be quoted, and since the syntax already d=
iffers somewhat from HPKP, I don't think we need to match the examples in t=
he HPKP spec that closely.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Explain interactions with Alt-Svc (#348)
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The consequences for ORIGIN + Alt-Svc with a port change aren't awesome, but this should at least remove any confusion.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348

-- Commit Summary --

  * Remove trailing whitespace
  * Explain the relationship of this with Alt-Svc

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md (17)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.diff

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<p>The consequences for ORIGIN + Alt-Svc with a port change aren't awesome, but this should at least remove any confusion.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Remove trailing whitespace</li>
  <li>Explain the relationship of this with Alt-Svc</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>
    (17)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Take a look at #348 for my take on this.

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<p>Take a look at <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/348" data-id="230587884" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#348</a> for my take on this.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] ORIGIN and server authority (#349)
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I'm reading the bit that touches on [server authority](http://httpwg.org/http-extensions/origin-frame.html#authority) and it's kinda vague on what the server is authoritative for.

I see two alternatives: 

1. ORIGIN is an explicit disavowal of authority for any name for which the server would otherwise be authoritative for.
2. ORIGIN doesn't say anything about authority, but instead relies on the definitions in RFC 7230 and 7540.  What it does say is that requests made to (or pushed for) origins that aren't in the Origin Set are somehow invalid.

I think that the text leans toward option 1, but it could be the latter.

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<p>I'm reading the bit that touches on <a href="http://httpwg.org/http-extensions/origin-frame.html#authority">server authority</a> and it's kinda vague on what the server is authoritative for.</p>
<p>I see two alternatives:</p>
<ol>
<li>ORIGIN is an explicit disavowal of authority for any name for which the server would otherwise be authoritative for.</li>
<li>ORIGIN doesn't say anything about authority, but instead relies on the definitions in RFC 7230 and 7540.  What it does say is that requests made to (or pushed for) origins that aren't in the Origin Set are somehow invalid.</li>
</ol>
<p>I think that the text leans toward option 1, but it could be the latter.</p>

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> 2.1.  About Intermediaries
>
>  An immutable response has the same semantic meaning when received by
>  proxy clients as it does when received by User-Agent based clients.
>  Therefore proxies SHOULD skip conditionally revalidating fresh
>  responses containing the immutable extension unless there is a signal
>  from the client that a validation is necessary (e.g. a no-cache
>  Cache-Control request directive).

Maybe point to Section 5.2.1.4 of RFC 7234 here...

>  A proxy that uses immutable to bypass a conditional revalidation may
>  choose whether to reply with a 304 or 200 to its requesting client
>  based on the request headers the proxy received.

s/may/MAY/ or s/may/can/

> 2.2.  Example
>
>  Cache-Control: max-age=31536000, immutable

Maybe add a full example, including a request/response pair for the case when "immutable" is not present?

> 4.  IANA Considerations
>
>  [RFC7234] sections 7.1 and 7.1.2 require registration of the

s/[RFC7234] sections 7.1 and 7.1.2/Section 7.1 of .../

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<blockquote>
<p>2.1.  About Intermediaries</p>
<p>An immutable response has the same semantic meaning when received by<br>
proxy clients as it does when received by User-Agent based clients.<br>
Therefore proxies SHOULD skip conditionally revalidating fresh<br>
responses containing the immutable extension unless there is a signal<br>
from the client that a validation is necessary (e.g. a no-cache<br>
Cache-Control request directive).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Maybe point to Section 5.2.1.4 of RFC 7234 here...</p>
<blockquote>
<p>A proxy that uses immutable to bypass a conditional revalidation may<br>
choose whether to reply with a 304 or 200 to its requesting client<br>
based on the request headers the proxy received.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>s/may/MAY/ or s/may/can/</p>
<blockquote>
<p>2.2.  Example</p>
<p>Cache-Control: max-age=31536000, immutable</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Maybe add a full example, including a request/response pair for the case when "immutable" is not present?</p>
<blockquote>
<ol start="4">
<li>IANA Considerations</li>
</ol>
<p>[RFC7234] sections 7.1 and 7.1.2 require registration of the</p>
</blockquote>
<p>s/[RFC7234] sections 7.1 and 7.1.2/Section 7.1 of .../</p>

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* [ ] Immutable doesn't contain the RFC2119 boilerplate, even though it uses the language. 
* [ ] It also has a dangling reference to RFC7231.

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<ul class="contains-task-list">
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> Immutable doesn't contain the RFC2119 boilerplate, even though it uses the language.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> It also has a dangling reference to RFC7231.</li>
</ul>

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mnot requested changes on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the

ORIGIN doesn't specify how to remove a member of the origin set.

> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for "https://example.com" that is
+  directed to an alternative at ("h2", "x.example.net", "8443") will seed the origin set with
+  "https://example.com:8443".  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+

I'm not sure this is helping; what are you trying to accomplish?

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<p><b>@mnot</b> requested changes on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r117906612">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
</pre>
<p>ORIGIN doesn't specify how to remove a member of the origin set.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r117906675">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for &quot;https://example.com&quot; that is
+  directed to an alternative at (&quot;h2&quot;, &quot;x.example.net&quot;, &quot;8443&quot;) will seed the origin set with
+  &quot;https://example.com:8443&quot;.  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+
</pre>
<p>I'm not sure this is helping; what are you trying to accomplish?</p>

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I don't want to get into a situation where a connection's authority changes based upon the ability of the client to understand an optional-to-implement frame; that's why the draft is written how it is (i.e., not directly affecting authority).

So, your #2 is closer to the mark. If the client understands and implements ORIGIN, a new set of requirements are applied to it, ones that take certain origins out of consideration for actual use (not authority) for a given connection.

Yes, this could be clarified. It also makes me think we might not want to have ORIGIN apply to server push.

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<p>I don't want to get into a situation where a connection's authority chan=
ges based upon the ability of the client to understand an optional-to-imple=
ment frame; that's why the draft is written how it is (i.e., not directly a=
ffecting authority).</p>
<p>So, your <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/2" =
class=3D"issue-link js-issue-link" data-url=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/ht=
tp-extensions/issues/2" data-id=3D"36346196" data-error-text=3D"Failed to l=
oad issue title" data-permission-text=3D"Issue title is private">#2</a> is =
closer to the mark. If the client understands and implements ORIGIN, a new =
set of requirements are applied to it, ones that take certain origins out o=
f consideration for actual use (not authority) for a given connection.</p>
<p>Yes, this could be clarified. It also makes me think we might not want t=
o have ORIGIN apply to server push.</p>

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sh;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<=
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a href=3D"https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AORpyBp_6G0QAZZ=
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 authority).\r\n\r\nSo, your #2 is closer to the mark. If the client unders=
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martinthomson commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the

It doesn't remove it from the origin set, that's unfortunate phrasing.  It does invalidate the connection for use with the origin.

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r117925877">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
</pre>
<p>It doesn't remove it from the origin set, that's unfortunate phrasing.  It does invalidate the connection for use with the origin.</p>

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martinthomson commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for "https://example.com" that is
+  directed to an alternative at ("h2", "x.example.net", "8443") will seed the origin set with
+  "https://example.com:8443".  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+

I thought that the example was illustrative: if you Alt-Svc with a different port, then send ORIGIN you get in a bind unless you include the original origin in the ORIGIN frame because the implicitly-included origin uses the alternative service port.

I've been trying to find a word for a. the origin that is seed for the origin set, and b. the origin that the client is chasing with alternative services.  I don't think that "original origin" is very helpful.

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r117926445">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for &quot;https://example.com&quot; that is
+  directed to an alternative at (&quot;h2&quot;, &quot;x.example.net&quot;, &quot;8443&quot;) will seed the origin set with
+  &quot;https://example.com:8443&quot;.  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+
</pre>
<p>I thought that the example was illustrative: if you Alt-Svc with a different port, then send ORIGIN you get in a bind unless you include the original origin in the ORIGIN frame because the implicitly-included origin uses the alternative service port.</p>
<p>I've been trying to find a word for a. the origin that is seed for the origin set, and b. the origin that the client is chasing with alternative services.  I don't think that "original origin" is very helpful.</p>

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@martinthomson pushed 1 commit.

23edbf8  Trying again to explain this convoluted scenario


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<p><a href="https://github.com/martinthomson" class="user-mention">@martinthomson</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/23edbf8" class="commit-link">23edbf8</a>  Trying again to explain this convoluted scenario</li>
</ul>


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Closed #294.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" data-id="206358806" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#294</a>.</p>

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Reopened #294.

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<p>Reopened <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" data-id="206358806" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#294</a>.</p>

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Oops, sorry, it looks like I wasn't supposed to close this on my own because of the design label, is that right @mnot?

I think https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18 was the only design issue on this list. I ended up only making fairly superficial changes, with my reasoning described in https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18#issuecomment-303517543


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<p>Oops, sorry, it looks like I wasn't supposed to close this on my own bec=
ause of the design label, is that right <a href=3D"https://github.com/mnot"=
 class=3D"user-mention">@mnot</a>?</p>
<p>I think <a href=3D"https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18" c=
lass=3D"issue-link js-issue-link" data-url=3D"https://github.com/bifurcatio=
n/expect-ct/issues/18" data-id=3D"204094997" data-error-text=3D"Failed to l=
oad issue title" data-permission-text=3D"Issue title is private">bifurcatio=
n/expect-ct#18</a> was the only design issue on this list. I ended up only =
making fairly superficial changes, with my reasoning described in <a href=
=3D"https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18#issuecomment-3035175=
43" class=3D"issue-link js-issue-link" data-url=3D"https://github.com/bifur=
cation/expect-ct/issues/18" data-id=3D"204094997" data-error-text=3D"Failed=
 to load issue title" data-permission-text=3D"Issue title is private">bifur=
cation/expect-ct#18 (comment)</a></p>

<p style=3D"font-size:small;-webkit-text-size-adjust:none;color:#666;">&mda=
sh;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<=
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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Convert RFC 6962 references to 6962-bis (045219e)
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Drive-by comment: Would you not want to support 6962 and 6962-bis concurrently? 6962-bis is not backwards-compatible, different TLS extensions, X509 extensions and SCT structure.

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<p>Drive-by comment: Would you not want to support 6962 and 6962-bis conc=
urrently? 6962-bis is not backwards-compatible, different TLS extensions,=
 X509 extensions and SCT structure.</p>

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Closed #294.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/294" data-id="206358806" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#294</a>.</p>

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That's OK, we can reopen it if someone complains.

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<p>That's OK, we can reopen it if someone complains.</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for "https://example.com" that is
+  directed to an alternative at ("h2", "x.example.net", "8443") will seed the origin set with
+  "https://example.com:8443".  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+

Maybe define a new term "initial origin"?

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r118412838">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for &quot;https://example.com&quot; that is
+  directed to an alternative at (&quot;h2&quot;, &quot;x.example.net&quot;, &quot;8443&quot;) will seed the origin set with
+  &quot;https://example.com:8443&quot;.  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+
</pre>
<p>Maybe define a new term "initial origin"?</p>

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martinthomson commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for "https://example.com" that is
+  directed to an alternative at ("h2", "x.example.net", "8443") will seed the origin set with
+  "https://example.com:8443".  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+

That's not quite it, it's the default (alternative) service for the origin that matters here.  The origin doesn't change when talking to an alternative.

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r118413193">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for &quot;https://example.com&quot; that is
+  directed to an alternative at (&quot;h2&quot;, &quot;x.example.net&quot;, &quot;8443&quot;) will seed the origin set with
+  &quot;https://example.com:8443&quot;.  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+
</pre>
<p>That's not quite it, it's the default (alternative) service for the origin that matters here.  The origin doesn't change when talking to an alternative.</p>

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martinthomson commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for "https://example.com" that is
+  directed to an alternative at ("h2", "x.example.net", "8443") will seed the origin set with
+  "https://example.com:8443".  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+

More noodling on this one... "initial origin" works, but that's not the hard one.  Does "original service" work for the service that is not an alternative?

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r118418491">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,16 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: A server that acts as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} might remove the origin that a
+  client creates the connection for by sending an ORIGIN frame.  The single value that is in the
+  newly-initialized Origin Set will contain the port of the alternative service rather than that
+  of the origin.  For instance, a client making requests for &quot;https://example.com&quot; that is
+  directed to an alternative at (&quot;h2&quot;, &quot;x.example.net&quot;, &quot;8443&quot;) will seed the origin set with
+  &quot;https://example.com:8443&quot;.  This problem can be avoided by explicitly including an origin
+  with the correct port in the ORIGIN frame.
+
</pre>
<p>More noodling on this one... "initial origin" works, but that's not the hard one.  Does "original service" work for the service that is not an alternative?</p>

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@martinthomson pushed 1 commit.

69ce241  Define "initial origin", try to rework note


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<p><a href="https://github.com/martinthomson" class="user-mention">@martinthomson</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/69ce241" class="commit-link">69ce241</a>  Define &quot;initial origin&quot;, try to rework note</li>
</ul>


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Merged #341.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/341" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/341" data-id="225245150" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#341</a>.</p>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

db84551  Merge branch 'master' into kazuho/settings-cache-digest


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/db84551" class="commit-link">db84551</a>  Merge branch &#39;master&#39; into kazuho/settings-cache-digest</li>
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Register header, frame type with IANA (#352)
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The header needs to be registered if it's going to appear in an RFC.

Looking at 7540, I think the frame type needs to be registered as well, since "Experimental Use" is private / local only.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352

-- Commit Summary --

  * Register header, frame type with IANA

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-cache-digest.md (19)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.diff

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<p>The header needs to be registered if it's going to appear in an RFC.</p>
<p>Looking at 7540, I think the frame type needs to be registered as well, since "Experimental Use" is private / local only.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Register header, frame type with IANA</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-cache-digest.md</a>
    (19)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

0ee448d  Fix ref


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/0ee448d" class="commit-link">0ee448d</a>  Fix ref</li>
</ul>


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Merged #352.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/352" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/352" data-id="231255900" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#352</a>.</p>

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Thank you very much!

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<p>Thank you very much!</p>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

28f4bc9  Merge branch 'master' into kazuho/settings-cache-digest


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/28f4bc9" class="commit-link">28f4bc9</a>  Merge branch &#39;master&#39; into kazuho/settings-cache-digest</li>
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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

11cab73  missed one


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/11cab73" class="commit-link">11cab73</a>  missed one</li>
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Merged #340.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/340" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/340" data-id="224991233" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#340</a>.</p>

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Closed #229 via #340.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/229" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/229" data-id="172245015" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#229</a> via <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/340" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/340" data-id="224991233" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#340</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] adjust the explanation why it is difficult to generate the header block of a final response immediately (#353)
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based on the suggestion in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0147.html
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353

-- Commit Summary --

  * adjust the explanation why it is difficult to generate the header block of a _final_ response immediately

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md (8)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.diff

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<p>based on the suggestion in <a href="https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0147.html">https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0147.html</a></p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>adjust the explanation why it is difficult to generate the header block of a _final_ response immediately</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>
    (8)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Adds an example showing how 103 can be used.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354

-- Commit Summary --

  * add example

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md (27)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.diff

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<p>Adds an example showing how 103 can be used.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>add example</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>
    (27)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #347.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/347" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/347" data-id="229302322" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#347</a>.</p>

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Thanks!

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<p>Thanks!</p>

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Thanks (and thanks for the note about Kramdown)

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<p>Thanks (and thanks for the note about Kramdown)</p>

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Merged #344.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/344" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/344" data-id="229301351" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#344</a>.</p>

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Merged #345.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/345" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/345" data-id="229301680" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#345</a>.</p>

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:+1: 

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@kazuho Would it make sense to also describe the cookie-based method in this spec?

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<p><a href="https://github.com/kazuho" class="user-mention">@kazuho</a> Would it make sense to also describe the cookie-based method in this spec?</p>

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While we could do that, I am kind of negative against it.

We need a specification for Cache-digest using HTTP/2 frames or HTTP/1 headers, since it needs to be defined as an interaction between a server and a client (that has the knowledge of what is being cached).

OTOH, we do not need a specification for a Cache-Digest cookie, since it is totally controlled by the server. So it is entirely up to each server implementation to use whatever format it wants. Also, it is not easy to find out the right way to implement a cookie-based Cache-Digest that would work on all web browsers, since the timing the browser consumes the cookies sent from the server depend on the timing of the response.

To summarize, the relatively low necessity and the technical difficulty makes me hesitate in pursuing the idea.

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<p>While we could do that, I am kind of negative against it.</p>
<p>We need a specification for Cache-digest using HTTP/2 frames or HTTP/1 h=
eaders, since it needs to be defined as an interaction between a server and=
 a client (that has the knowledge of what is being cached).</p>
<p>OTOH, we do not need a specification for a Cache-Digest cookie, since it=
 is totally controlled by the server. So it is entirely up to each server i=
mplementation to use whatever format it wants. Also, it is not easy to find=
 out the right way to implement a cookie-based Cache-Digest that would work=
 on all web browsers, since the timing the browser consumes the cookies sen=
t from the server depend on the timing of the response.</p>
<p>To summarize, the relatively low necessity and the technical difficulty =
makes me hesitate in pursuing the idea.</p>

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cification for Cache-digest using HTTP/2 frames or HTTP/1 headers, since it=
 needs to be defined as an interaction between a server and a client (that =
has the knowledge of what is being cached).\r\n\r\nOTOH, we do not need a s=
pecification for a Cache-Digest cookie, since it is totally controlled by t=
he server. So it is entirely up to each server implementation to use whatev=
er format it wants. Also, it is not easy to find out the right way to imple=
ment a cookie-based Cache-Digest that would work on all web browsers, since=
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Merged #354.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/354" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/354" data-id="231500909" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#354</a>.</p>

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Merged #353.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/353" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/353" data-id="231469859" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#353</a>.</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+

I think you want to say something like this:

> Servers used as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} will need to explicitly send the origin(s) that are available when sending ORIGIN frames, because the initial origin set (see {{ref}}) does not contain any alternative services. Because the origin includes the port number, this includes alternative services that are on the same host as the origin.

I.e., this is about more than just ports.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r119020420">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+
</pre>
<p>I think you want to say something like this:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Servers used as an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} will need to explicitly send the origin(s) that are available when sending ORIGIN frames, because the initial origin set (see {{ref}}) does not contain any alternative services. Because the origin includes the port number, this includes alternative services that are on the same host as the origin.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I.e., this is about more than just ports.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] ORIGIN and Server Push (#355)
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#349 made me realise that, from the server's perspective, they don't have hard information about whether the client supports ORIGIN at the time they send the ORIGIN frame. 

While they might gather this based upon the requests that the client subsequently sends, this isn't information you'd want to rely upon.

This is especially relevant to Server Push. Right now, ORIGIN is defined to affect what the client is able to push, but (as above), the server doesn't have a firm idea about the origins that are actually valid to use on the connection at any given time. 

A number of potential solutions:

1. The server just speculatively pushes and figures it out based upon the responses (i.e. no change)
2. We create an explicit signal from the client to the server (e.g., "I will process ORIGIN", probably a SETTING, or "I have processed ORIGIN", probably a frame)
3. ORIGIN doesn't constrain Server Push

Note that 1 is not optimal (wasted bytes), and 3 might collide badly with future uses of ORIGIN.

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<p><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/349" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/349" data-id="230588489" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#349</a> made me realise that, from the server's perspective, they don't have hard information about whether the client supports ORIGIN at the time they send the ORIGIN frame.</p>
<p>While they might gather this based upon the requests that the client subsequently sends, this isn't information you'd want to rely upon.</p>
<p>This is especially relevant to Server Push. Right now, ORIGIN is defined to affect what the client is able to push, but (as above), the server doesn't have a firm idea about the origins that are actually valid to use on the connection at any given time.</p>
<p>A number of potential solutions:</p>
<ol>
<li>The server just speculatively pushes and figures it out based upon the responses (i.e. no change)</li>
<li>We create an explicit signal from the client to the server (e.g., "I will process ORIGIN", probably a SETTING, or "I have processed ORIGIN", probably a frame)</li>
<li>ORIGIN doesn't constrain Server Push</li>
</ol>
<p>Note that 1 is not optimal (wasted bytes), and 3 might collide badly with future uses of ORIGIN.</p>

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_what the_ server _is able to push_, you mean?

Hmm, I would expect a server that sends out ORIGIN to have a positive idea what it is willing to serve on the connection. If it has no clear idea, it should probably refrain from ORIGIN?

If I understood correctly, the question boils down to: "Can the server, having send out ORIGIN, still PUSH resources from domains that are not in ORIGIN?"

And my answer would be no. I would like to use ORIGIN to hint to the client that on any other domain, it can expect a 421 as answer. The reason for that lies in separate TLS options for hosts that share a certificate. If those differ, the server should not server _or push_ resources from the other domain. It could require a client cert, or only stronger ciphers.


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<p><em>what the</em> server <em>is able to push</em>, you mean?</p>
<p>Hmm, I would expect a server that sends out ORIGIN to have a positive id=
ea what it is willing to serve on the connection. If it has no clear idea, =
it should probably refrain from ORIGIN?</p>
<p>If I understood correctly, the question boils down to: "Can the server, =
having send out ORIGIN, still PUSH resources from domains that are not in O=
RIGIN?"</p>
<p>And my answer would be no. I would like to use ORIGIN to hint to the cli=
ent that on any other domain, it can expect a 421 as answer. The reason for=
 that lies in separate TLS options for hosts that share a certificate. If t=
hose differ, the server should not server <em>or push</em> resources from t=
he other domain. It could require a client cert, or only stronger ciphers.<=
/p>

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ve on the connection. If it has no clear idea, it should probably refrain f=
rom ORIGIN?\r\n\r\nIf I understood correctly, the question boils down to: \=
"Can the server, having send out ORIGIN, still PUSH resources from domains =
that are not in ORIGIN?\"\r\n\r\nAnd my answer would be no. I would like to=
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 421 as answer. The reason for that lies in separate TLS options for hosts =
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@icing - the server doesn't know whether the client implements ORIGIN. It may have different PUSH strategies based upon ORIGIN support.

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<p><a href="https://github.com/icing" class="user-mention">@icing</a> - the server doesn't know whether the client implements ORIGIN. It may have different PUSH strategies based upon ORIGIN support.</p>

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(It may be a corner case now, but if we open up the origin set a la CERTIFICATE, we'll hit this. That might be an argument for approach 1 - i.e., "we'll deal with it then.").

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<p>(It may be a corner case now, but if we open up the origin set a la CERTIFICATE, we'll hit this. That might be an argument for approach 1 - i.e., "we'll deal with it then.").</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] ORIGIN and Server Push (#355)
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It could, yes. But is that sane? Can ORIGIN require that the server answers requests outside of those domain the same way, no matter if the client understands it or not?

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<p>It could, yes. But is that sane? Can ORIGIN require that the server answers requests outside of those domain the same way, no matter if the client understands it or not?</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Form-encode Expect-CT report bodies? (#356)
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Background for this issue is in https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18, where it is argued that Expect-CT reports should have a special Content-Type, like Content Security Policy reports, but it is also argued that they should be sent with CORS preflights when Expect-CT is implemented by a web browser, since they are not a whitelisted safe request.

Unfortunately, implementing preflights for Expect-CT reports probably can't be done in Chrome in any reasonable amount of time, and would probably be difficult for other implementors as well. Expect-CT is checked at connection setup time, completely divorced from any context from which we can construct an `Origin` header.

Therefore I think we need to resort to using `application/x-www-form-urlencoded` for reports, if we want Expect-CT to be reasonably implementable in a web browser without violating the SOP.

@scotthelme @mikewest @eranmes

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<p>Background for this issue is in <a href="https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/bifurcation/expect-ct/issues/18" data-id="204094997" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">bifurcation/expect-ct#18</a>, where it is argued that Expect-CT reports should have a special Content-Type, like Content Security Policy reports, but it is also argued that they should be sent with CORS preflights when Expect-CT is implemented by a web browser, since they are not a whitelisted safe request.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, implementing preflights for Expect-CT reports probably can't be done in Chrome in any reasonable amount of time, and would probably be difficult for other implementors as well. Expect-CT is checked at connection setup time, completely divorced from any context from which we can construct an <code>Origin</code> header.</p>
<p>Therefore I think we need to resort to using <code>application/x-www-form-urlencoded</code> for reports, if we want Expect-CT to be reasonably implementable in a web browser without violating the SOP.</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/scotthelme" class="user-mention">@ScottHelme</a> <a href="https://github.com/mikewest" class="user-mention">@mikewest</a> <a href="https://github.com/eranmes" class="user-mention">@eranmes</a></p>

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@sleevi do you think this is the right way forward given the time pressures on Expect-CT?

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<p><a href="https://github.com/sleevi" class="user-mention">@sleevi</a> do you think this is the right way forward given the time pressures on Expect-CT?</p>

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@estark37 It's above my paygrade. I'm not sure these requests should abide by CORS, especially if we think of "Expect-CT" as part of an input to the PKI validation blackbox, but if it helps adoption, then such is the life of standards and compromises.

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<p><a href=3D"https://github.com/estark37" class=3D"user-mention">@estark37=
</a> It's above my paygrade. I'm not sure these requests should abide by CO=
RS, especially if we think of "Expect-CT" as part of an input to the PKI va=
lidation blackbox, but if it helps adoption, then such is the life of stand=
ards and compromises.</p>

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even in the absence of ORIGIN, the server does not know the client's effective origin set unless it is completely ignoring 7540 coalescing.. as mike bishop says we don't standardize pki decisions. istm its just a particular instance of a general push problem.

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<p>even in the absence of ORIGIN, the server does not know the client's e=
ffective origin set unless it is completely ignoring 7540 coalescing.. as=
 mike bishop says we don't standardize pki decisions. istm its just a par=
ticular instance of a general push problem.</p>

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@mnot 
> (It may be a corner case now, but if we open up the origin set a la CERTIFICATE, we'll hit this. That might be an argument for approach 1 - i.e., "we'll deal with it then.").

My +1 goes to this.

When servers start sending secondary certificates to expand the authority (than that allowed by the names stored in the certificate sent during the TLS handshake), we would inevitably requiring the client to send a signal indicating if it accepted the certificate, which can be used as a signal.

Until then, I think that there is no need for an indication.

In fact, I think that it might be a good idea to clarify that the ORIGIN frame only changes what a _client_ is expected to request, and that it does not change what a server is allowed to push.

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<p><a href=3D"https://github.com/mnot" class=3D"user-mention">@mnot</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>(It may be a corner case now, but if we open up the origin set a la CERT=
IFICATE, we'll hit this. That might be an argument for approach 1 - i.e., "=
we'll deal with it then.").</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My +1 goes to this.</p>
<p>When servers start sending secondary certificates to expand the authorit=
y (than that allowed by the names stored in the certificate sent during the=
 TLS handshake), we would inevitably requiring the client to send a signal =
indicating if it accepted the certificate, which can be used as a signal.</=
p>
<p>Until then, I think that there is no need for an indication.</p>
<p>In fact, I think that it might be a good idea to clarify that the ORIGIN=
 frame only changes what a <em>client</em> is expected to request, and that=
 it does not change what a server is allowed to push.</p>

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in the end, there are always going to be two different evaluations of the can-i-push rule and its going to be done on a per origin basis - once on the server and once on the client. This is just a generalization of the existing situation (and yet another example of the complexity of push). That's true of 7540 coalescing (e.g. client has a key pin rule that prohibits the coalescing the server doesn't know about), origin, and certificate.

I really think the RST_STREAM mechanism is sufficient - perhaps with a new error code made available for it.

This is an argument for 1.

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<p>in the end, there are always going to be two different evaluations of th=
e can-i-push rule and its going to be done on a per origin basis - once on =
the server and once on the client. This is just a generalization of the exi=
sting situation (and yet another example of the complexity of push). That's=
 true of 7540 coalescing (e.g. client has a key pin rule that prohibits the=
 coalescing the server doesn't know about), origin, and certificate.</p>
<p>I really think the RST_STREAM mechanism is sufficient - perhaps with a n=
ew error code made available for it.</p>
<p>This is an argument for 1.</p>

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 the end, there are always going to be two different evaluations of the can=
-i-push rule and its going to be done on a per origin basis - once on the s=
erver and once on the client. This is just a generalization of the existing=
 situation (and yet another example of the complexity of push). That's true=
 of 7540 coalescing (e.g. client has a key pin rule that prohibits the coal=
escing the server doesn't know about), origin, and certificate.\r\n\r\nI re=
ally think the RST_STREAM mechanism is sufficient - perhaps with a new erro=
r code made available for it.\r\n\r\nThis is an argument for 1."}],"action"=
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martinthomson commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+

That doesn't ring true either.  I realize that there are cases where the alternative has its own independent identity (e.g., example.com might use alt.example.net as an alternative, but that server might also want to serve resources for alt.example.net), but I wanted to avoid dragging that into this.

The port thing is a trap because the initial origin is primed based on the port that was *used*.  At least with the SNI, the original origin (example.com) is sent, so there is no confusion.  If the port number is the same for origin and alternative, the initial origin covers the resources that caused the client to use this alternative.  Send an empty ORIGIN frame and you still have a usable alternative.  Change the port number and that is no longer true.

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r119512414">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+
</pre>
<p>That doesn't ring true either.  I realize that there are cases where the alternative has its own independent identity (e.g., example.com might use alt.example.net as an alternative, but that server might also want to serve resources for alt.example.net), but I wanted to avoid dragging that into this.</p>
<p>The port thing is a trap because the initial origin is primed based on the port that was <em>used</em>.  At least with the SNI, the original origin (example.com) is sent, so there is no confusion.  If the port number is the same for origin and alternative, the initial origin covers the resources that caused the client to use this alternative.  Send an empty ORIGIN frame and you still have a usable alternative.  Change the port number and that is no longer true.</p>

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