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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Form-encode Expect-CT report bodies? (#356)
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Use an HTTP method other than POST?

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<p>Use an HTTP method other than POST?</p>

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@reschke that doesn't resolve the issue; preflight requests are required as long as there is a non-whitelisted `Content-Type` header of application/json.

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<p><a href="https://github.com/reschke" class="user-mention">@reschke</a> that doesn't resolve the issue; preflight requests are required as long as there is a non-whitelisted <code>Content-Type</code> header of application/json.</p>

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That would be a bug in CORS. No preflight is needed if the HTTP method by definition can not ve generated by an HTML form.

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<p>That would be a bug in CORS. No preflight is needed if the HTTP method by definition can not ve generated by an HTML form.</p>

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That's not a bug in CORS, it's exactly the point of CORS -- to prevent requests that cannot be generated by legacy web content (for example, via an `img` tag or an HTML form submission) unless the server opts in.

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<p>That's not a bug in CORS, it's exactly the point of CORS -- to prevent=
 requests that cannot be generated by legacy web content (for example, vi=
a an <code>img</code> tag or an HTML form submission) unless the server o=
pts in.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Form-encode Expect-CT report bodies? (#356)
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Yes.

But form content and links can only generate GET, HEAD and POST requests.

I was suggesting to use a different method than these.

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<p>Yes.</p>
<p>But form content and links can only generate GET, HEAD and POST requests.</p>
<p>I was suggesting to use a different method than these.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Form-encode Expect-CT report bodies? (#356)
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But CORS also disallows non-GET/HEAD/POST methods without a preflight, and that's not a bug; it's because servers might rely on web content not being able to generate those methods and would be vulnerable if web content could send such requests.

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<p>But CORS also disallows non-GET/HEAD/POST methods without a preflight,=
 and that's not a bug; it's because servers might rely on web content not=
 being able to generate those methods and would be vulnerable if web cont=
ent could send such requests.</p>

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Yes, indeed. I was temporarily confused.

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<p>Yes, indeed. I was temporarily confused.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] improve the wording: "client MUST NOT process" (#357)
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This is a PR that essentially rebases the change proposed in #319.

To me the change proposed by @royfielding is a clear improvement. I believe that we should merge this.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357

-- Commit Summary --

  * rebase #319

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md (9)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.diff

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<p>This is a PR that essentially rebases the change proposed in <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/319" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/319" data-id="218536805" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#319</a>.</p>
<p>To me the change proposed by <a href="https://github.com/royfielding" class="user-mention">@royfielding</a> is a clear improvement. I believe that we should merge this.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>rebase #319</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>
    (9)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #357.

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<p>Merged <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/357" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/357" data-id="234508725" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#357</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Allow both v1 and v2 SCTs to be included in Expect-CT reports (#358)
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To support both 6962 and 6962-bis clients, we should allow Expect-CT reports to contain both v1 and v2 SCTs. One way to do that is include SCTs as a JSON object:
```
version: 1 / 2,
serialized_sct: <base64-encoded serialized SignedCertificateTimestamp from 6962> / <base64-encoded serialized TransItem struct from 6962-bis>
```

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<p>To support both 6962 and 6962-bis clients, we should allow Expect-CT reports to contain both v1 and v2 SCTs. One way to do that is include SCTs as a JSON object:</p>
<pre><code>version: 1 / 2,
serialized_sct: &lt;base64-encoded serialized SignedCertificateTimestamp from 6962&gt; / &lt;base64-encoded serialized TransItem struct from 6962-bis&gt;
</code></pre>

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After further discussion on the list (https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg//2017AprJun/0168.html), I suppose we should leave things as they are: leave it up to the UA to decide if and how to send preflights, with the report-collection server advised to expect preflights from some clients ("The UA MAY perform other operations as part of sending the HTTP POST request, for example sending a CORS preflight as part of [FETCH]").

While it isn't feasible to implement true preflights in a network stack like Chrome's, we could feasibly implement null-origin preflights for Expect-CT reports.

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<p>After further discussion on the list (<a href=3D"https://lists.w3.org/=
Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg//2017AprJun/0168.html">https://lists.w3.org/=
Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg//2017AprJun/0168.html</a>), I suppose we sho=
uld leave things as they are: leave it up to the UA to decide if and how =
to send preflights, with the report-collection server advised to expect p=
reflights from some clients ("The UA MAY perform other operations as part=
 of sending the HTTP POST request, for example sending a CORS preflight a=
s part of [FETCH]").</p>
<p>While it isn't feasible to implement true preflights in a network stac=
k like Chrome's, we could feasibly implement null-origin preflights for E=
xpect-CT reports.</p>

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ld leave things as they are: leave it up to the UA to decide if and how t=
o send preflights, with the report-collection server advised to expect pr=
eflights from some clients (\"The UA MAY perform other operations as part=
 of sending the HTTP POST request, for example sending a CORS preflight a=
s part of [FETCH]\").\r\n\r\nWhile it isn't feasible to implement true pr=
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Closed #255.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/255" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/255" data-id="186427595" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#255</a>.</p>

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OK. 

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<p>OK.</p>

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Closed #256.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/256" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/256" data-id="186430948" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#256</a>.</p>

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Closed #216.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/216" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/216" data-id="167540754" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#216</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Potential security issues with ORIGIN frame (#339)
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Closed #339.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/339" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/339" data-id="224798406" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#339</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Explain interactions with Alt-Svc (#348)
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mnot commented on this pull request.



> @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request's origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection's Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+

> When sending an ORIGIN frame to a connection that is initialised as an Alternative Service {{?RFC7838}}, the initial origin set {{ref}} will contain an origin with the appropriate scheme and hostname (since Alternative Services specifies that the origin's hostname be sent in SNI). However, it is possible that the port will be different than that of the intended origin, since the initial origin set is calculated using the actual port in use, which can be different for the alternative service. In this case, the intended origin ought to be sent in the ORIGIN frame explicitly.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/348#discussion_r122854712">draft-ietf-httpbis-origin-frame.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -153,6 +153,20 @@ The Origin Set is also affected by the 421 (Misdirected Request) response status
 MUST create the ASCII serialisation of the corresponding request&#39;s origin (as per {{!RFC6454}},
 Section 6.2) and remove it from the connection&#39;s Origin Set, if present.
 
+Note:
+
+: Using an alternative service {{?RFC7838}} can result in using a service that has a different
+  port to the original service (that is, the server that a client contacts when it has no active
+  alternative services).  In that case, the initial origin will have a different port number.  A
+  client could be unable to send requests for the origin that advertised the alternative
+  service.  Explicitly including origins in the ORIGIN frame avoids this problem.
+
</pre>
<blockquote>
<p>When sending an ORIGIN frame to a connection that is initialised as an Alternative Service {{?RFC7838}}, the initial origin set {{ref}} will contain an origin with the appropriate scheme and hostname (since Alternative Services specifies that the origin's hostname be sent in SNI). However, it is possible that the port will be different than that of the intended origin, since the initial origin set is calculated using the actual port in use, which can be different for the alternative service. In this case, the intended origin ought to be sent in the ORIGIN frame explicitly.</p>
</blockquote>

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http://www.w3.org/mid/624e3e87-43bc-0dc2-d38c-2d69cbb9e93b@gmx.de

Most of this is editorial, so you can dispose of it as you see fit (although some of it is likely to come back up in IETF LC if not addressed. The exceptions are **bold**; I think we need to give some sort of response to those.

* [ ] Througout: avoid lowercase BCP14 keywords (may->can, should->ought to, ...), or actually invoke the new boilerplate defined in draft-leiba-rfc2119-update.
* [ ] s/headers/header fields/
* [ ] **It's not optimal to mention a draft that for now is work in progress so close to a "MUST", even with "optionally" sprinkled in. My recommendation continues to move all material that refers to the Key header field to an appendix.**
* [ ] s/defines/defines the/
* [ ] We should define "origin" somewhere (and also explain "subresource").
* [ ] Througout: uppercase "header field" in section titles.
* [ ] Isn't that evident because sending the hints is purely OPTIONAL anyway?
* [ ] **Why aren't we using HTTP list syntax here? Also, what does it mean when the field appears more than once?**
* [ ] I would rename this to "CSSVAL" (or something like that) for readability.
* [ ] I would rename this to "HTML5" (or something like that) for readability. 
* [ ] I would rename this to "KEY" (or something like that) for readability. 
* [ ] Finally: no Acknowledgements?

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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/mid/624e3e87-43bc-0dc2-d38c-2d69cbb9e93b@gmx.de">http://www.w3.org/mid/624e3e87-43bc-0dc2-d38c-2d69cbb9e93b@gmx.de</a></p>
<p>Most of this is editorial, so you can dispose of it as you see fit (although some of it is likely to come back up in IETF LC if not addressed. The exceptions are <strong>bold</strong>; I think we need to give some sort of response to those.</p>
<ul class="contains-task-list">
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> Througout: avoid lowercase BCP14 keywords (may-&gt;can, should-&gt;ought to, ...), or actually invoke the new boilerplate defined in draft-leiba-rfc2119-update.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> s/headers/header fields/</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> <strong>It's not optimal to mention a draft that for now is work in progress so close to a "MUST", even with "optionally" sprinkled in. My recommendation continues to move all material that refers to the Key header field to an appendix.</strong></li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> s/defines/defines the/</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> We should define "origin" somewhere (and also explain "subresource").</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> Througout: uppercase "header field" in section titles.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> Isn't that evident because sending the hints is purely OPTIONAL anyway?</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> <strong>Why aren't we using HTTP list syntax here? Also, what does it mean when the field appears more than once?</strong></li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> I would rename this to "CSSVAL" (or something like that) for readability.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> I would rename this to "HTML5" (or something like that) for readability.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> I would rename this to "KEY" (or something like that) for readability.</li>
<li class="task-list-item"><input type="checkbox" class="task-list-item-checkbox" disabled=""> Finally: no Acknowledgements?</li>
</ul>

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>From thread at <http://www.w3.org/mid/20170419164106.EFBCF24249@welho-filter4.welho.com>:

> Is it assumed that "Accept-CH" is given in http-equiv attribute, but "Accept-CH-Lifetime" on http response ?

Yes. 

> Or is that needed so that "Accept-CH" can be given on several times?

No, that's implicit in its definition as a comma separated list of values. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that default semantics allow multiple headers with same field-name, as long as the field-value is defined as a comma separated list.. Meaning, there can be multiple Accept-CH header fields and they can be combined into a single list.
 
> What happens if there is several "Accept-CH-Lifetime" on response?

For Accept-CH-Lifetime, I guess we just need to specify which one wins, correct? Any defaults I can point to or reuse? Last one wins?


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<p>From thread at <a href="http://www.w3.org/mid/20170419164106.EFBCF24249@welho-filter4.welho.com">http://www.w3.org/mid/20170419164106.EFBCF24249@welho-filter4.welho.com</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Is it assumed that "Accept-CH" is given in http-equiv attribute, but "Accept-CH-Lifetime" on http response ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Or is that needed so that "Accept-CH" can be given on several times?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No, that's implicit in its definition as a comma separated list of values. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that default semantics allow multiple headers with same field-name, as long as the field-value is defined as a comma separated list.. Meaning, there can be multiple Accept-CH header fields and they can be combined into a single list.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>What happens if there is several "Accept-CH-Lifetime" on response?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>For Accept-CH-Lifetime, I guess we just need to specify which one wins, correct? Any defaults I can point to or reuse? Last one wins?</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Address client-hints-04 feedback (#361)
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See https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/359, https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/360.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361

-- Commit Summary --

  * CH draft 04
  * update rfc2119 boilerplate
  * s/header/header fields/
  * fixup missing the
  * add origin reference
  * add ack's section
  * remove Downlink definition
  * add missing repeat callout for Save-Data
  * move Key reference into appendix

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-client-hints.md (104)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.diff

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<p>See <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/359" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/359" data-id="237058470" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#359</a>, <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/360" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/360" data-id="237058670" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#360</a>.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>CH draft 04</li>
  <li>update rfc2119 boilerplate</li>
  <li>s/header/header fields/</li>
  <li>fixup missing the</li>
  <li>add origin reference</li>
  <li>add ack&#39;s section</li>
  <li>remove Downlink definition</li>
  <li>add missing repeat callout for Save-Data</li>
  <li>move Key reference into appendix</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-client-hints.md</a>
    (104)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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> I would rename this to "CSSVAL" (or something like that) for readability.
>  I would rename this to "HTML5" (or something like that) for readability.
>  I would rename this to "KEY" (or something like that) for readability.

I'm inclined to keep them as is. The CSS spec is CSS2, not CSS values specific, and other names are auto generated -- don't think it's worth overwriting.

>> If the desired resource width is not known at the time of the request
>> or the resource does not have a display width, the Width header field
>> can be omitted. ...
>
> Isn't that evident because sending the hints is purely OPTIONAL anyway?

Yes, you could make that case, but it's there to highlight a non-obvious implementation edge case that most will not consider until much later in implementation.. I think it's worth keeping as is.

>> Save-Data = sd-token *( OWS ";" OWS [sd-token] )
>>      sd-token = token
>
> Why aren't we using HTTP list syntax here? Also, what does it mean when 
> the field appears more than once?

This is a repeat of discussion in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0688.html + https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0678.html. I've added a callout for repeat fields.

---

Opened https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361. I believe it should address all of the above -- ptal.

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<blockquote>
<p>I would rename this to "CSSVAL" (or something like that) for readabili=
ty.<br>
I would rename this to "HTML5" (or something like that) for readability.<=
br>
I would rename this to "KEY" (or something like that) for readability.</p=
>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm inclined to keep them as is. The CSS spec is CSS2, not CSS values =
specific, and other names are auto generated -- don't think it's worth ov=
erwriting.</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>If the desired resource width is not known at the time of the request<=
br>
or the resource does not have a display width, the Width header field<br>=

can be omitted. ...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Isn't that evident because sending the hints is purely OPTIONAL anyway=
?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, you could make that case, but it's there to highlight a non-obvio=
us implementation edge case that most will not consider until much later =
in implementation.. I think it's worth keeping as is.</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>Save-Data =3D sd-token *( OWS ";" OWS [sd-token] )<br>
sd-token =3D token</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Why aren't we using HTTP list syntax here? Also, what does it mean whe=
n<br>
the field appears more than once?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is a repeat of discussion in <a href=3D"https://lists.w3.org/Arch=
ives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0688.html">https://lists.w3.org/Archi=
ves/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0688.html</a> + <a href=3D"https://lis=
ts.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0678.html">https://list=
s.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0678.html</a>. I've adde=
d a callout for repeat fields.</p>
<hr>
<p>Opened <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361" =
class=3D"issue-link js-issue-link" data-url=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/=
http-extensions/issues/361" data-id=3D"238667353" data-error-text=3D"Fail=
ed to load issue title" data-permission-text=3D"Issue title is private">#=
361</a>. I believe it should address all of the above -- ptal.</p>

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dash;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thre=
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wg/http-extensions/issues/359#issuecomment-311179917">view it on GitHub</=
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grigorik in #359: \u003e I would rename this to \"CSSVAL\" (or something =
like that) for readability.\r\n\u003e  I would rename this to \"HTML5\" (=
or something like that) for readability.\r\n\u003e  I would rename this t=
o \"KEY\" (or something like that) for readability.\r\n\r\nI'm inclined t=
o keep them as is. The CSS spec is CSS2, not CSS values specific, and oth=
er names are auto generated -- don't think it's worth overwriting.\r\n\r\=
n\u003e\u003e If the desired resource width is not known at the time of t=
he request\r\n\u003e\u003e or the resource does not have a display width,=
 the Width header field\r\n\u003e\u003e can be omitted. ...\r\n\u003e\r\n=
\u003e Isn't that evident because sending the hints is purely OPTIONAL an=
yway?\r\n\r\nYes, you could make that case, but it's there to highlight a=
 non-obvious implementation edge case that most will not consider until m=
uch later in implementation.. I think it's worth keeping as is.\r\n\r\n\u=
003e\u003e Save-Data =3D sd-token *( OWS \";\" OWS [sd-token] )\r\n\u003e=
\u003e      sd-token =3D token\r\n\u003e\r\n\u003e Why aren't we using HT=
TP list syntax here? Also, what does it mean when \r\n\u003e the field ap=
pears more than once?\r\n\r\nThis is a repeat of discussion in https://li=
sts.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0688.html + https://li=
sts.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2016OctDec/0678.html. I've added =
a callout for repeat fields.\r\n\r\n---\r\n\r\nOpened https://github.com/=
httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361. I believe it should address all of the a=
bove -- ptal."}],"action":{"name":"View Issue","url":"https://github.com/=
httpwg/http-extensions/issues/359#issuecomment-311179917"}}}</script>=

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@igrigorik pushed 1 commit.

78a0a61  define repeat Accept-CH-Lifetime behavior


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<p><a href="https://github.com/igrigorik" class="user-mention">@igrigorik</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/78a0a61" class="commit-link">78a0a61</a>  define repeat Accept-CH-Lifetime behavior</li>
</ul>


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I believe https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361 should address this, ptal.

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<p>I believe <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/361" data-id="238667353" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#361</a> should address this, ptal.</p>

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mnot approved this pull request.

LGTM. I suspect you might have people bring up further nits about the boilerplate, etc. in IETF LC, but let's let them raise them (gives people something to do :)

Go ahead and ship a new draft and we'll kick it down the road.



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<p><b>@mnot</b> approved this pull request.</p>

<p>LGTM. I suspect you might have people bring up further nits about the boilerplate, etc. in IETF LC, but let's let them raise them (gives people something to do :)</p>
<p>Go ahead and ship a new draft and we'll kick it down the road.</p>

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Revise contributing.md to reflect our working practices more closely.

Specifically, editors can make proposals in the drafts that close issues, as long as they remember to label them `proposal`.

This is more aligned with the quicwg process; it's different (they use `has-consensus`) because we have a large number of existing issues with consensus.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362

-- Commit Summary --

  * mention charter up front
  * consistent wrapping
  * punctuation
  * more wrapping
  * closed -> dealt with
  * rework resolving issues
  * talk about consensus generally

-- File Changes --

    M CONTRIBUTING.md (94)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.diff

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<p>Revise contributing.md to reflect our working practices more closely.</p>
<p>Specifically, editors can make proposals in the drafts that close issues, as long as they remember to label them <code>proposal</code>.</p>
<p>This is more aligned with the quicwg process; it's different (they use <code>has-consensus</code>) because we have a large number of existing issues with consensus.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>mention charter up front</li>
  <li>consistent wrapping</li>
  <li>punctuation</li>
  <li>more wrapping</li>
  <li>closed -&gt; dealt with</li>
  <li>rework resolving issues</li>
  <li>talk about consensus generally</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362/files#diff-0">CONTRIBUTING.md</a>
    (94)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/362.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

62152bd  Talk about disposing of proposal flag


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<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/62152bd" class="commit-link">62152bd</a>  Talk about disposing of proposal flag</li>
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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

fbbe8c6  Merge github.com:httpwg/http-extensions into contributing


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/fbbe8c6" class="commit-link">fbbe8c6</a>  Merge github.com:httpwg/http-extensions into contributing</li>
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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

2394d55  Merge remote-tracking branch 'refs/remotes/origin/HEAD' into contributing


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/2394d55" class="commit-link">2394d55</a>  Merge remote-tracking branch &#39;refs/remotes/origin/HEAD&#39; into contributing</li>
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] fix contradictory definintions with HTTP/1.1 (#363)
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* removes statements that are either redundant or contradicts with RFC 7230, 7231
* clarifies how a server is expected to do when generating a response
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363

-- Commit Summary --

  * remove statements that are either redundant or in contradction with RFC 723x
  * clarify how a server is expected to do when generating a response

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md (15)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.diff

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<ul>
<li>removes statements that are either redundant or contradicts with RFC 7230, 7231</li>
<li>clarifies how a server is expected to do when generating a response</li>
</ul>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>remove statements that are either redundant or in contradction with RFC 723x</li>
  <li>clarify how a server is expected to do when generating a response</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>
    (15)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.

All intermediaries, including proxies, or just gateways? Having proxies generate this might surprise some.

>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

What's the intent here -- to require headers in the 103 to be repeated in the final response? Editorial issue aside, that seems like it might always work; e.g., when the 103 headers are speculative.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124172982">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>All intermediaries, including proxies, or just gateways? Having proxies generate this might surprise some.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124173094">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>What's the intent here -- to require headers in the 103 to be repeated in the final response? Editorial issue aside, that seems like it might always work; e.g., when the 103 headers are speculative.</p>

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kazuho commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

> to require headers in the 103 to be repeated in the final response

Correct.

Even though the current version of the draft states that evaluation of the header fields included in a 103 response is speculative, it does not provide a guidance in how a server is expected to generate a response.

The issue was pointed out by @reschke  (please refer to the last paragraph on https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0220.html), and I think that it would be beneficial for us to specify it.

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<p><b>@kazuho</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124174025">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<blockquote>
<p>to require headers in the 103 to be repeated in the final response</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Correct.</p>
<p>Even though the current version of the draft states that evaluation of the header fields included in a 103 response is speculative, it does not provide a guidance in how a server is expected to generate a response.</p>
<p>The issue was pointed out by <a href="https://github.com/reschke" class="user-mention">@reschke</a>  (please refer to the last paragraph on <a href="https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0220.html">https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2017AprJun/0220.html</a>), and I think that it would be beneficial for us to specify it.</p>

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kazuho commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.

I had proxies in mind as well.

If people are going to find such action to be taken by a proxy as a surprise, I am not against removing the paragraph as a whole (since IMO a gateway could do that regardless of what the specification states (or not)).

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<p><b>@kazuho</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124174258">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>I had proxies in mind as well.</p>
<p>If people are going to find such action to be taken by a proxy as a surprise, I am not against removing the paragraph as a whole (since IMO a gateway could do that regardless of what the specification states (or not)).</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

Hm. I can imagine cases where the origin wants to "target" the hints at an intermediary, but not have them replayed from cache. Is it necessary to use a MUST NOT here, or do we just need to give guidance? 

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124175496">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>Hm. I can imagine cases where the origin wants to "target" the hints at an intermediary, but not have them replayed from cache. Is it necessary to use a MUST NOT here, or do we just need to give guidance?</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.

I think it would be best to leave it unspecified, personally.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124175529">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>I think it would be best to leave it unspecified, personally.</p>

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Oh, one thing -- you removed Downlink. It'd be good to mention that in the change notes, and on list, so people are aware.

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<p>Oh, one thing -- you removed Downlink. It'd be good to mention that in the change notes, and on list, so people are aware.</p>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

8b85ee4  clarify "otherwise"


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/8b85ee4" class="commit-link">8b85ee4</a>  clarify &quot;otherwise&quot;</li>
</ul>


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kazuho commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

Do you think changing this to `SHOULD` would be sufficient? Your suggestion makes sense.

The other scenario that I can think of would be a cache sending 103 based on a stale-cached response, while contacting the origin for revalidation. Changing this to SHOULD will give us more room to perform these kind of operations. If this was a MUST NOT, an intermediary cannot do that without risking the possibility of breaking the specification.

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<p><b>@kazuho</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124176556">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>Do you think changing this to <code>SHOULD</code> would be sufficient? Your suggestion makes sense.</p>
<p>The other scenario that I can think of would be a cache sending 103 based on a stale-cached response, while contacting the origin for revalidation. Changing this to SHOULD will give us more room to perform these kind of operations. If this was a MUST NOT, an intermediary cannot do that without risking the possibility of breaking the specification.</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

I was thinking more of making it advisory text only (requirements affect conformance, and this really is a judgement call). E.g.,

> Typically, servers will include the headers sent in 103 (Early Hints) in the final response as well. However, there might be cases when this is not desirable, such as when the server learns that they are not correct before the final response is sent, or the server does not wish them to be cached.

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124177124">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>I was thinking more of making it advisory text only (requirements affect conformance, and this really is a judgement call). E.g.,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Typically, servers will include the headers sent in 103 (Early Hints) in the final response as well. However, there might be cases when this is not desirable, such as when the server learns that they are not correct before the final response is sent, or the server does not wish them to be cached.</p>
</blockquote>

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wtarreau commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

@mnot: I like your proposed text. It emphasizes the speculative nature of what is presented in 103. Also I noticed that "speculative" is exactly the term that's missing in the document to explain the logics behind early hints and why the final value may slightly differ.

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<p><b>@wtarreau</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124179143">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a>: I like your proposed text. It emphasizes the speculative nature of what is presented in 103. Also I noticed that "speculative" is exactly the term that's missing in the document to explain the logics behind early hints and why the final value may slightly differ.</p>

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wtarreau commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.

I'd leave it with any intermediary. A good end-to-end example would involve a client not aware of 103, a caching proxy aware of 103, a gateway (reverse proxy) sending some links in 103 roughly based on the URL and a server knowing perfectly what to prefetch. When the gateway receives the request, it would immediately emit a 103 with 2-3 links which are generic to the site (eg: css, logo) and passes the request to the server. The server knows based on the URL that some JS is needed as well and could send an extra 103 with 2-3 more links while processing. The proxy receiving these 103 can start to prefetch these objects and populate its cache, then send some push promises to the client with these objects. That way the limitations of pushed resources (not cacheable, limited to connection etc) are significantly outcome as the client-side caching proxy can provide them very quickly again.

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<p><b>@wtarreau</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124179796">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>I'd leave it with any intermediary. A good end-to-end example would involve a client not aware of 103, a caching proxy aware of 103, a gateway (reverse proxy) sending some links in 103 roughly based on the URL and a server knowing perfectly what to prefetch. When the gateway receives the request, it would immediately emit a 103 with 2-3 links which are generic to the site (eg: css, logo) and passes the request to the server. The server knows based on the URL that some JS is needed as well and could send an extra 103 with 2-3 more links while processing. The proxy receiving these 103 can start to prefetch these objects and populate its cache, then send some push promises to the client with these objects. That way the limitations of pushed resources (not cacheable, limited to connection etc) are significantly outcome as the client-side caching proxy can provide them very quickly again.</p>

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reschke commented on this pull request.



> @@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ Client Hints does not supersede or replace the User-Agent header field. Existing
 
 ## Notational Conventions
 
-The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in {{RFC2119}}.
+The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 {{RFC2119}} when, and only when, they appear capitalized, as shown.

This doesn't seem to be consistent with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8174#section-2

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<p><b>@reschke</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361#discussion_r124187860">draft-ietf-httpbis-client-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ Client Hints does not supersede or replace the User-Agent header field. Existing
 
 ## Notational Conventions
 
-The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;, &quot;REQUIRED&quot;, &quot;SHALL&quot;, &quot;SHALL NOT&quot;, &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;RECOMMENDED&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this document are to be interpreted as described in {{RFC2119}}.
+The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;, &quot;REQUIRED&quot;, &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 {{RFC2119}} when, and only when, they appear capitalized, as shown.
</pre>
<p>This doesn't seem to be consistent with <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8174#section-2">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8174#section-2</a></p>

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igrigorik commented on this pull request.



> @@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ Client Hints does not supersede or replace the User-Agent header field. Existing
 
 ## Notational Conventions
 
-The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in {{RFC2119}}.
+The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 {{RFC2119}} when, and only when, they appear capitalized, as shown.

Good catch, looks like I took the text from outdated draft.

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<p><b>@igrigorik</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/361#discussion_r124199273">draft-ietf-httpbis-client-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt; @@ -89,7 +89,7 @@ Client Hints does not supersede or replace the User-Agent header field. Existing
 
 ## Notational Conventions
 
-The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;, &quot;REQUIRED&quot;, &quot;SHALL&quot;, &quot;SHALL NOT&quot;, &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;RECOMMENDED&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this document are to be interpreted as described in {{RFC2119}}.
+The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;, &quot;REQUIRED&quot;, &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP 14 {{RFC2119}} when, and only when, they appear capitalized, as shown.
</pre>
<p>Good catch, looks like I took the text from outdated draft.</p>

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@igrigorik pushed 2 commits.

0fd7787  update upper vs lower case to latest guidance
e3827a9  since 04 changes


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<p><a href="https://github.com/igrigorik" class="user-mention">@igrigorik</a> pushed 2 commits.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/0fd7787" class="commit-link">0fd7787</a>  update upper vs lower case to latest guidance</li>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/e3827a9" class="commit-link">e3827a9</a>  since 04 changes</li>
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Thanks guys, pushed a few more updates. 

@reschke everything else looks good? If so I'll squash+push a new draft.

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<p>Thanks guys, pushed a few more updates.</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/reschke" class="user-mention">@reschke</a> everything else looks good? If so I'll squash+push a new draft.</p>

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@kazuho pushed 2 commits.

dc88612  change server requirement to advisory statements
0154cce  remove paragraph talking about intermediary


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<p><a href="https://github.com/kazuho" class="user-mention">@kazuho</a> pushed 2 commits.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/dc88612" class="commit-link">dc88612</a>  change server requirement to advisory statements</li>
  <li><a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/0154cce" class="commit-link">0154cce</a>  remove paragraph talking about intermediary</li>
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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] fix contradictory definintions with HTTP/1.1 (#363)
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kazuho commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.

@mnot Thank you for the text.

I have adopted it in dc88612 with slight modifications. I've removed "or the server does not wish them to be cached" since IMO it might sound as an advice that 103 can be used a way to send signal to one client (that receives the informational response). Please let me know what you think.

@wtarreau I agree that it makes sense to use the word "speculative" somewhere. The problem is where we should :-)

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<p><b>@kazuho</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124201126">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> Thank you for the text.</p>
<p>I have adopted it in <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/dc886124c7fe40995241912350f072daf7dd8ff8" class="commit-link"><tt>dc88612</tt></a> with slight modifications. I've removed "or the server does not wish them to be cached" since IMO it might sound as an advice that 103 can be used a way to send signal to one client (that receives the informational response). Please let me know what you think.</p>
<p><a href="https://github.com/wtarreau" class="user-mention">@wtarreau</a> I agree that it makes sense to use the word "speculative" somewhere. The problem is where we should :-)</p>

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kazuho commented on this pull request.



>  (Early Hints) response's header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.

The text has been removed in 0154cce.

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<p><b>@kazuho</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124201252">draft-ietf-httpbis-early-hints.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  (Early Hints) response&#39;s header fields MUST NOT affect how the final response is processed. A
 client MUST NOT interpret the 103 (Early Hints) response header fields as if they applied to
 the informational response itself (e.g., as metadata about the 103 (Early Hints) response).
 
-An intermediary MAY drop the informational response. It MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes
-using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
+A server MUST NOT omit sending the header fields of a final response even if they have been sent as
+part of a 103 (Early Hints) response.
+The server SHOULD only send the header fields that are likely to help the client carry out speculative operations as part of the 103 (Early Hints) response, instead of including all the header fields that are likely to be seen in the final response.
+
+An intermediary MAY send HTTP/2 ([RFC7540]) server pushes using the information found in the 103 (Early Hints) response.
</pre>
<p>The text has been removed in <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/0154cce7e09b89ac93aa7135b956588818efc3c1" class="commit-link"><tt>0154cce</tt></a>.</p>

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While it is not necessary to specify how an intermediary might behave, doing so might be beneficial as suggested in https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124179796.

We could possibly have something like the following below the example.

> As is the case with any informational response, a server might emit more than one 103 (Early Hints) responses prior to sending a final response. This can happen for example when a caching intermediary generates a 103 (Early Hints) response based on the header fields of a stale-cached response, then forwards a 103 (Early Hints) response and a final response that was sent from the origin in response to a revalidation request.


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<p>While it is not necessary to specify how an intermediary might behave, d=
oing so might be beneficial as suggested in <a href=3D"https://github.com/h=
ttpwg/http-extensions/pull/363#discussion_r124179796" class=3D"issue-link j=
s-issue-link" data-url=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/=
363" data-id=3D"238728947" data-error-text=3D"Failed to load issue title" d=
ata-permission-text=3D"Issue title is private">#363 (comment)</a>.</p>
<p>We could possibly have something like the following below the example.</=
p>
<blockquote>
<p>As is the case with any informational response, a server might emit more=
 than one 103 (Early Hints) responses prior to sending a final response. Th=
is can happen for example when a caching intermediary generates a 103 (Earl=
y Hints) response based on the header fields of a stale-cached response, th=
en forwards a 103 (Early Hints) response and a final response that was sent=
 from the origin in response to a revalidation request.</p>
</blockquote>

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ions/pull/363#discussion_r124179796.\r\n\r\nWe could possibly have somethin=
g like the following below the example.\r\n\r\n\u003e As is the case with a=
ny informational response, a server might emit more than one 103 (Early Hin=
ts) responses prior to sending a final response. This can happen for exampl=
e when a caching intermediary generates a 103 (Early Hints) response based =
on the header fields of a stale-cached response, then forwards a 103 (Early=
 Hints) response and a final response that was sent from the origin in resp=
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works for me.



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works for me.<br>
<br>


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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Geolocation Header (#364)
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Hello,

My name is Luis. I'd like to discuss with you a proposal to solve the follo=
wing use case:

Currently, the only mechanism to share your location with a website is thro=
ugh the JS Geolocation API. This has some limitations: First, in order to h=
ave the server know the client=E2=80=99s location there are two full roundt=
rips required (one roundtrip to load the page with Javascript code, and a s=
econd roundtrip to actually send the location to the server and get back a =
location-aware response). While not as significant as the first limitation,=
 the second limitation is that the client must execute Javascript in order =
to acquire location.

For example, for services like Search, it means that the very first respons=
e from a server will contain non-localized results, and a second roundtrip =
would be required to refresh those results (assuming Geolocation permission=
 is already granted for the origin).

There's many ways to solve this problem through headers, so no JS would be =
required and clients could proactively include geolocation data in the very=
 first request (after the server asked for it in previous sessions, and per=
missions are granted).

[Here you can find a document detailing the problem and a possible proposal=
](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zL4qyOpp6W36H4_eMpmth3Yj_ZTMZ3wCupc01=
q5qatA/edit)

After discussing with @igrigorik he suggested that Client Hints might be a =
potential way to implement this too, which makes perfect sense. However, so=
me features in the original proposal would not be possible with current CH =
draft (parameters for CH-Accept or path restrictions for when the data shou=
ld be included).

It would be great to get your opinion on this and whether this is something=
 that might be interesting for people in this working group.

Thanks!
Luis.

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<p>Hello,</p>
<p>My name is Luis. I'd like to discuss with you a proposal to solve the fo=
llowing use case:</p>
<p>Currently, the only mechanism to share your location with a website is t=
hrough the JS Geolocation API. This has some limitations: First, in order t=
o have the server know the client=E2=80=99s location there are two full rou=
ndtrips required (one roundtrip to load the page with Javascript code, and =
a second roundtrip to actually send the location to the server and get back=
 a location-aware response). While not as significant as the first limitati=
on, the second limitation is that the client must execute Javascript in ord=
er to acquire location.</p>
<p>For example, for services like Search, it means that the very first resp=
onse from a server will contain non-localized results, and a second roundtr=
ip would be required to refresh those results (assuming Geolocation permiss=
ion is already granted for the origin).</p>
<p>There's many ways to solve this problem through headers, so no JS would =
be required and clients could proactively include geolocation data in the v=
ery first request (after the server asked for it in previous sessions, and =
permissions are granted).</p>
<p><a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zL4qyOpp6W36H4_eMpmth3Yj_=
ZTMZ3wCupc01q5qatA/edit">Here you can find a document detailing the problem=
 and a possible proposal</a></p>
<p>After discussing with <a href=3D"https://github.com/igrigorik" class=3D"=
user-mention">@igrigorik</a> he suggested that Client Hints might be a pote=
ntial way to implement this too, which makes perfect sense. However, some f=
eatures in the original proposal would not be possible with current CH draf=
t (parameters for CH-Accept or path restrictions for when the data should b=
e included).</p>
<p>It would be great to get your opinion on this and whether this is someth=
ing that might be interesting for people in this working group.</p>
<p>Thanks!<br>
Luis.</p>

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Closed #364.

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<p>Closed <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/364" class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/364" data-id="239474121" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-permission-text="Issue title is private">#364</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Geolocation Header (#364)
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Hi Luis,

Welcome. The best way to make a proposal for new work to the WG is to send e-mail; we generally use this repo to talk about things we've already decided to do.

Client Hints is already very advanced in the process, so we're not likely to add it to that spec. However, it doesn't have to be in that document to be considered a "client hint" (which is really just a use of content negotiation). 

I'd encourage you to bring this up on the WG mailing list:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/
(you can just paste the text above into an e-mail)

Be aware that, because it's Geolocation, there's going to be extra scrutiny from a privacy/security perspective. Also, one of the primary things we look at when deciding to adopt something is whether it's likely to get implemented. 

Cheers,


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<p>Hi Luis,</p>
<p>Welcome. The best way to make a proposal for new work to the WG is to se=
nd e-mail; we generally use this repo to talk about things we've already de=
cided to do.</p>
<p>Client Hints is already very advanced in the process, so we're not likel=
y to add it to that spec. However, it doesn't have to be in that document t=
o be considered a "client hint" (which is really just a use of content nego=
tiation).</p>
<p>I'd encourage you to bring this up on the WG mailing list:<br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/">https://list=
s.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/</a><br>
(you can just paste the text above into an e-mail)</p>
<p>Be aware that, because it's Geolocation, there's going to be extra scrut=
iny from a privacy/security perspective. Also, one of the primary things we=
 look at when deciding to adopt something is whether it's likely to get imp=
lemented.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>

<p style=3D"font-size:small;-webkit-text-size-adjust:none;color:#666;">&mda=
sh;<br />You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.<=
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"}},"updates":{"snippets":[{"icon":"PERSON","message":"@mnot in #364: Hi Lu=
is,\r\n\r\nWelcome. The best way to make a proposal for new work to the WG =
is to send e-mail; we generally use this repo to talk about things we've al=
ready decided to do.\r\n\r\nClient Hints is already very advanced in the pr=
ocess, so we're not likely to add it to that spec. However, it doesn't have=
 to be in that document to be considered a \"client hint\" (which is really=
 just a use of content negotiation). \r\n\r\nI'd encourage you to bring thi=
s up on the WG mailing list:\r\n  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf=
-http-wg/\r\n(you can just paste the text above into an e-mail)\r\n\r\nBe a=
ware that, because it's Geolocation, there's going to be extra scrutiny fro=
m a privacy/security perspective. Also, one of the primary things we look a=
t when deciding to adopt something is whether it's likely to get implemente=
d. \r\n\r\nCheers,\r\n"}],"action":{"name":"View Issue","url":"https://gith=
ub.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/364#issuecomment-312155560"}}}</script>=

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