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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Structured headers should explicitly allow multiple same-named headers (#596)
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As @reschke points out in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2018JanMar/0209.html, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#section-3.2.2 says:

> A sender MUST NOT generate multiple header fields with the same field
> name in a message unless either the entire field value for that
> header field is defined as a comma-separated list [i.e., #(values)]
> or the header field is a well-known exception (as noted below).

draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure should explicitly override that prohibition for lists, dictionaries, and parameterised lists. It could do this by using the # construct in the ABNF for those types, but because the parsing algorithm in structured headers isn't actually driven by the ABNF, I'm not sure that's the right approach.

The parsing side is already handled by http://httpwg.org/http-extensions/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure.html#text.

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<p>As <a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="332994" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/reschke">@reschke</a> points out in <a href="https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2018JanMar/0209.html" rel="nofollow">https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2018JanMar/0209.html</a>, <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#section-3.2.2" rel="nofollow">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#section-3.2.2</a> says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>A sender MUST NOT generate multiple header fields with the same field<br>
name in a message unless either the entire field value for that<br>
header field is defined as a comma-separated list [i.e., #(values)]<br>
or the header field is a well-known exception (as noted below).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure should explicitly override that prohibition for lists, dictionaries, and parameterised lists. It could do this by using the # construct in the ABNF for those types, but because the parsing algorithm in structured headers isn't actually driven by the ABNF, I'm not sure that's the right approach.</p>
<p>The parsing side is already handled by <a href="http://httpwg.org/http-extensions/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure.html#text" rel="nofollow">http://httpwg.org/http-extensions/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure.html#text</a>.</p>

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-1 on "overriding" anything the base spec says.

If you want list semantics, use the matching ABNF notation.

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<p>-1 on "overriding" anything the base spec says.</p>
<p>If you want list semantics, use the matching ABNF notation.</p>

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To be clear, I have no objection to using the `#` ABNF notation if that's what folks think is best.

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<p>To be clear, I have no objection to using the <code>#</code> ABNF notation if that's what folks think is best.</p>

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I don't think we should tie requirements for handling of HTTP extensions into what convention is used to define their syntax. Will raise an issue against httpwg/http-core.

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<p>I don't think we should tie requirements for handling of HTTP extensions into what convention is used to define their syntax. Will raise an issue against httpwg/http-core.</p>

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Maybe, but the core question is the behavior, not the syntax (handling empty elements, for instance).

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<p>Maybe, but the core question is the behavior, not the syntax (handling empty elements, for instance).</p>

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The prose defines precise ranges for numbers (explicitly for integers, implicitly for floats), yet the algorithm doesn't yet enforce them.

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<p>The prose defines precise ranges for numbers (explicitly for integers, implicitly for floats), yet the algorithm doesn't yet enforce them.</p>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598

-- Commit Summary --

  * variants: reference formatting

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md (20)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>variants: reference formatting</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md</a>
    (20)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] variants: why update RFC 7234 (#599)
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Does it really *update* RFC 7234? If it really does, it should say how exactly.

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<p>Does it really <em>update</em> RFC 7234? If it really does, it should say how exactly.</p>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600

-- Commit Summary --

  * variants: type the artwork

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md (46)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>variants: type the artwork</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md</a>
    (46)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] variants: acks should be last and unnumbered (#601)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601

-- Commit Summary --

  * variants: acks should be last and unnumbered

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md (17)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>variants: acks should be last and unnumbered</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md</a>
    (17)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/601.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #601.

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Merged #600.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319470481" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/600" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/600">#600</a>.</p>

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mnot commented on this pull request.



>  
 To perform content negotiation for Accept given a request-value and available-values:
 
 1. Let preferred-available be an empty list.
-2. Let preferred-types be a list of the types in the request-value, ordered by their weight, highest to lowest, as per {{!RFC7231}} Section 5.3.2 (omitting any coding with a weight of 0). If "Accept" is not present or empty, preferred-types will be empty. If a type lacks an explicit weight, an implementation MAY assign one.
+2. Let preferred-types be a list of the types in the request-value, ordered by their weight, highest to lowest, as per Section 5.3.2 of {{!RFC7231}} (omitting any coding with a weight of 0). If "Accept" is not present or empty, preferred-types will be empty. If a type laSection 5.3.2 of cks an explicit weight, an implementation MAY assign one.

typo here

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<p><b>@mnot</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598#discussion_r185661685">draft-ietf-httpbis-variants.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  
 To perform content negotiation for Accept given a request-value and available-values:
 
 1. Let preferred-available be an empty list.
-2. Let preferred-types be a list of the types in the request-value, ordered by their weight, highest to lowest, as per {{!RFC7231}} Section 5.3.2 (omitting any coding with a weight of 0). If &quot;Accept&quot; is not present or empty, preferred-types will be empty. If a type lacks an explicit weight, an implementation MAY assign one.
+2. Let preferred-types be a list of the types in the request-value, ordered by their weight, highest to lowest, as per Section 5.3.2 of {{!RFC7231}} (omitting any coding with a weight of 0). If &quot;Accept&quot; is not present or empty, preferred-types will be empty. If a type laSection 5.3.2 of cks an explicit weight, an implementation MAY assign one.
</pre>
<p>typo here</p>

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Our basic list of mitigations missed a fairly obvious one.

Mentioning it should help with the class of confusion Magnus N. had with the draft.

I decided not to include a note about the server being unable to examine early data before making this decision.  That's just something people will need to discover for themselves.  Generally, you have to decide whether you want 0-RTT without seeing any of it.  Partly this is because it avoids a potential deadlock, but mostly it's because the TLS stack will not even decrypt 0-RTT if it is rejected.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602

-- Commit Summary --

  * Explicitly mention rejecting 0-RTT
  * Trim words
  * Discarded is a better word

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md (14)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.diff

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<p>Our basic list of mitigations missed a fairly obvious one.</p>
<p>Mentioning it should help with the class of confusion Magnus N. had with the draft.</p>
<p>I decided not to include a note about the server being unable to examine early data before making this decision.  That's just something people will need to discover for themselves.  Generally, you have to decide whether you want 0-RTT without seeing any of it.  Partly this is because it avoids a potential deadlock, but mostly it's because the TLS stack will not even decrypt 0-RTT if it is rejected.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Explicitly mention rejecting 0-RTT</li>
  <li>Trim words</li>
  <li>Discarded is a better word</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md</a>
    (14)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602.diff</a></li>
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@martinthomson pushed 1 commit.

f987920  Discarded is a better word


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<p><a href="https://github.com/martinthomson" class="user-mention">@martinthomson</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/f987920">f987920</a>  Discarded is a better word</li>
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This was a little obtuse in the previous iteration, likely as a result of trying to be parsimonious.  Expand it a little and clarify the attack.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603

-- Commit Summary --

  * Attempt to clarify the replay attack

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md (20)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.diff

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<p>This was a little obtuse in the previous iteration, likely as a result of trying to be parsimonious.  Expand it a little and clarify the attack.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Attempt to clarify the replay attack</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md</a>
    (20)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Looks good to me, and indeed clearer. Thanks.

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<p>Looks good to me, and indeed clearer. Thanks.</p>

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It's indeed better like this in my opinion.

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<p>It's indeed better like this in my opinion.</p>

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@reschke pushed 1 commit.

5fa0a4b  fix typo


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<p><a href="https://github.com/reschke" class="user-mention">@reschke</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/5fa0a4b">5fa0a4b</a>  fix typo</li>
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Merged #598.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319468565" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/598" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/598">#598</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: acks should be unnumbered (#604)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: acks should be unnumbered

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: acks should be unnumbered</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: ref format and typo

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (6)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: ref format and typo</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (6)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: artwork width (#606)
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(attempt to fix it)
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: artwork width

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (3)

-- Patch Links --

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https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606.diff

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<p>(attempt to fix it)</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: artwork width</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (3)
  </li>
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<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606.diff</a></li>
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] [cache digests] Eliminate requirement that the digest is a power of 2 (#607)
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During the implementation of the [Cache Digests reference implementation](https://github.com/yoavweiss/cache-digests-cuckoo) I [realized](https://github.com/yoavweiss/cache-digests-cuckoo/commit/3ee4a45bf0bc03ea47ae7125e409b41d57acb198) that the digest size has to be a power of 2. Otherwise the `xor` operation on the primary index can lead to an out-of-bounds write, resulting in memory and correctness issues.

An alternative to that approach would be to:
* Do an out-of-bounds check to the `xor` operation and if it is out-of-bounds, take as an index the out-of-bounds value minus the digest size.
* Add a bit to the fingerprint which indicates that the alternative index was out-of-bounds.
* In the future, when a fingerprint is displaced and need to be returned to the primary index, the "out-of-bounds" bit can be used as an indication that the original `xor` operation was out-of-bounds, and instead of the index, the `xor` operation now can use the original out-of-bounds index.

@kazuho - Does that make sense?

It will cost us a bit more space (extra bit per fingerprint), but will make the digest size significantly more flexible.


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<p>During the implementation of the <a href="https://github.com/yoavweiss/cache-digests-cuckoo">Cache Digests reference implementation</a> I <a href="https://github.com/yoavweiss/cache-digests-cuckoo/commit/3ee4a45bf0bc03ea47ae7125e409b41d57acb198">realized</a> that the digest size has to be a power of 2. Otherwise the <code>xor</code> operation on the primary index can lead to an out-of-bounds write, resulting in memory and correctness issues.</p>
<p>An alternative to that approach would be to:</p>
<ul>
<li>Do an out-of-bounds check to the <code>xor</code> operation and if it is out-of-bounds, take as an index the out-of-bounds value minus the digest size.</li>
<li>Add a bit to the fingerprint which indicates that the alternative index was out-of-bounds.</li>
<li>In the future, when a fingerprint is displaced and need to be returned to the primary index, the "out-of-bounds" bit can be used as an indication that the original <code>xor</code> operation was out-of-bounds, and instead of the index, the <code>xor</code> operation now can use the original out-of-bounds index.</li>
</ul>
<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="41567" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/kazuho">@kazuho</a> - Does that make sense?</p>
<p>It will cost us a bit more space (extra bit per fingerprint), but will make the digest size significantly more flexible.</p>

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+1

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<p>+1</p>

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Merged #605.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319794077" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/605" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/605">#605</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: artwork width (#606)
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@mcmanus pushed 1 commit.

f7d3315  use ellipsis instead


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mcmanus" class="user-mention">@mcmanus</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/f7d3315">f7d3315</a>  use ellipsis instead</li>
</ul>


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thanks. 72. gah.



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<p>thanks. 72. gah.</p>

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Merged #606.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319794443" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/606" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/606">#606</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] [cache digests] Eliminate requirement that the digest size is a power of 2 (#607)
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@yoavweiss Thank you for noticing and raising the issue.

I think the proposed solution is plausible. OTOH, I am not sure if we need the flexibility.

I'd assume that a client would not resize the hash every time it adds / removes an entry. I'd rather expect it to resize it based on exponential backoff. That means that in the average case, we will not be transferring a optimally-sized Cuckoo hash anyways. Considering that, I fear having 1-bit overhead for every entry might actually lead us to seeing a bigger hash in practice.

Note also that allowing a table size other than power-of-two increases the CPU cost since it means that we cannot rely on bit operations for calculating modulo.

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<p><a class=3D"user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id=3D"786187" data-octo-=
click=3D"hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions=3D"link_type:self" hr=
ef=3D"https://github.com/yoavweiss">@yoavweiss</a> Thank you for noticing=
 and raising the issue.</p>
<p>I think the proposed solution is plausible. OTOH, I am not sure if we =
need the flexibility.</p>
<p>I'd assume that a client would not resize the hash every time it adds =
/ removes an entry. I'd rather expect it to resize it based on exponentia=
l backoff. That means that in the average case, we will not be transferri=
ng a optimally-sized Cuckoo hash anyways. Considering that, I fear having=
 1-bit overhead for every entry might actually lead us to seeing a bigger=
 hash in practice.</p>
<p>Note also that allowing a table size other than power-of-two increases=
 the CPU cost since it means that we cannot rely on bit operations for ca=
lculating modulo.</p>

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azuho in #607: @yoavweiss Thank you for noticing and raising the issue.\r=
\n\r\nI think the proposed solution is plausible. OTOH, I am not sure if =
we need the flexibility.\r\n\r\nI'd assume that a client would not resize=
 the hash every time it adds / removes an entry. I'd rather expect it to =
resize it based on exponential backoff. That means that in the average ca=
se, we will not be transferring a optimally-sized Cuckoo hash anyways. Co=
nsidering that, I fear having 1-bit overhead for every entry might actual=
ly lead us to seeing a bigger hash in practice.\r\n\r\nNote also that all=
owing a table size other than power-of-two increases the CPU cost since i=
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Merged #603.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319765639" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/603" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/603">#603</a>.</p>

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Merged #602.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319764053" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/602" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/602">#602</a>.</p>

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Closed #581 via 2b1fcbe69609c0bc63d3c37b1206cfb9a5e2a20d.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="313554392" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/581" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/581">#581</a> via <a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/2b1fcbe69609c0bc63d3c37b1206cfb9a5e2a20d"><tt>2b1fcbe</tt></a>.</p>

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Closed #595 via e1ce4742e4984c9c6d2195af2045953ffa3ee23c.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319112862" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/595" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/595">#595</a> via <a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/e1ce4742e4984c9c6d2195af2045953ffa3ee23c"><tt>e1ce474</tt></a>.</p>

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This doesn't seem like we've formed best practice about it; punting for now.

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<p>This doesn't seem like we've formed best practice about it; punting for now.</p>

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Closed #580.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="313554301" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/580" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/580">#580</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] variants: why update RFC 7234 (#599)
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I put that in there because it relaxes the requirements around Vary handling when present. Will mention.

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<p>I put that in there because it relaxes the requirements around Vary handling when present. Will mention.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Add versioning and evolution (2b1fcbe)
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Aren't these backward-**compatible** techniques?

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<p>Aren't these backward-<strong>compatible</strong> techniques?</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Add versioning and evolution (2b1fcbe)
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The changes are backwards-incompatible; if they were backwards-compatible, you could continue to use the existing URL / media type / header field.

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<p>The changes are backwards-incompatible; if they were backwards-compatible, you could continue to use the existing URL / media type / header field.</p>

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Hmm, a new header field can be sent alongside the old one.  Same for a new link relation.  A new media type might be backwards compatible, depending on who sends it (a server responding might use Accept from the request).

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<p>Hmm, a new header field can be sent alongside the old one.  Same for a=
 new link relation.  A new media type might be backwards compatible, depe=
nding on who sends it (a server responding might use Accept from the requ=
est).</p>

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note that I used the terminology "backwards-compatible *changes*", not "techniques". 

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<p>note that I used the terminology "backwards-compatible <em>changes</em>", not "techniques".</p>

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Closed #599 via 8b16fc883ed00cffe0e2fdc8ff93045aaaf88c7f.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319469485" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/599" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/599">#599</a> via <a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/8b16fc883ed00cffe0e2fdc8ff93045aaaf88c7f"><tt>8b16fc8</tt></a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] [cache digests] Eliminate requirement that the digest size is a power of 2 (#607)
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This is not about resizing the table, but about finding an alternative index in case of a collision.

Alternatively to my approach which adds an extra bit, @bdupras and @beala have an alternative [approach](https://github.com/bdupras/guava-probably/blob/10a738234de3830c8bb0dd8d1617e0df123607cf/src/main/java/com/duprasville/guava/probably/CuckooStrategyMurmurBealDupras32.java#L134-L169) for Guava-Probably, which seems to be providing the same benefits without the overhead.

Essentially (IIUC), they calculate a predicable but randomly distributed number from the fingerprint and use that as an offset from the original index. They make sure that it doesn't fall on the original index by requiring that the offset is odd and that the size of the digest is even.




> Note also that allowing a table size other than power-of-two increases the CPU cost since it means that we cannot rely on bit operations for calculating modulo.

That's a good point, and implementations can choose to stick with power-of-two digest sizes. But figuring out a way to remove that as a requirement seems like a win. (especially if we don't have to pay the "extra bit per fingerprint" tax after all)

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<p>This is not about resizing the table, but about finding an alternative=
 index in case of a collision.</p>
<p>Alternatively to my approach which adds an extra bit, <a class=3D"user=
-mention" data-hovercard-user-id=3D"2314746" data-octo-click=3D"hovercard=
-link-click" data-octo-dimensions=3D"link_type:self" href=3D"https://gith=
ub.com/bdupras">@bdupras</a> and <a class=3D"user-mention" data-hovercard=
-user-id=3D"455163" data-octo-click=3D"hovercard-link-click" data-octo-di=
mensions=3D"link_type:self" href=3D"https://github.com/beala">@beala</a> =
have an alternative <a href=3D"https://github.com/bdupras/guava-probably/=
blob/10a738234de3830c8bb0dd8d1617e0df123607cf/src/main/java/com/duprasvil=
le/guava/probably/CuckooStrategyMurmurBealDupras32.java#L134-L169">approa=
ch</a> for Guava-Probably, which seems to be providing the same benefits =
without the overhead.</p>
<p>Essentially (IIUC), they calculate a predicable but randomly distribut=
ed number from the fingerprint and use that as an offset from the origina=
l index. They make sure that it doesn't fall on the original index by req=
uiring that the offset is odd and that the size of the digest is even.</p=
>
<blockquote>
<p>Note also that allowing a table size other than power-of-two increases=
 the CPU cost since it means that we cannot rely on bit operations for ca=
lculating modulo.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's a good point, and implementations can choose to stick with powe=
r-of-two digest sizes. But figuring out a way to remove that as a require=
ment seems like a win. (especially if we don't have to pay the "extra bit=
 per fingerprint" tax after all)</p>

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oavweiss in #607: This is not about resizing the table, but about finding=
 an alternative index in case of a collision.\r\n\r\nAlternatively to my =
approach which adds an extra bit, @bdupras and @beala have an alternative=
 [approach](https://github.com/bdupras/guava-probably/blob/10a738234de383=
0c8bb0dd8d1617e0df123607cf/src/main/java/com/duprasville/guava/probably/C=
uckooStrategyMurmurBealDupras32.java#L134-L169) for Guava-Probably, which=
 seems to be providing the same benefits without the overhead.\r\n\r\nEss=
entially (IIUC), they calculate a predicable but randomly distributed num=
ber from the fingerprint and use that as an offset from the original inde=
x. They make sure that it doesn't fall on the original index by requiring=
 that the offset is odd and that the size of the digest is even.\r\n\r\n\=
r\n\r\n\r\n\u003e Note also that allowing a table size other than power-o=
f-two increases the CPU cost since it means that we cannot rely on bit op=
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out a way to remove that as a requirement seems like a win. (especially i=
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@mcmanus pushed 1 commit.

6853d4a  add a back section to md


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mcmanus" class="user-mention">@mcmanus</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/6853d4a">6853d4a</a>  add a back section to md</li>
</ul>


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Merged #604.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="319791172" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/604" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/604">#604</a>.</p>

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the first section references 7230.. which immediately begs the question of what about 7540.

assuming http-core won't be an rfc before this is published (and its not worth waiting for it) it would probably be good to have a paragraph just saying that 7230 defines both semantics and wire protocol, and 7540 is an alternative wire protocol for those same semantics (ummm.. plus push.).. and that your text in bcp56bis is generally scoped to the semantics unless otherwise noted. That might at least sort things out a bit.

this might also be a place to say that best practices of using http limit themselves to the semantics.. 4.1 kinda says that - not sure about a specific suggestion


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<p>the first section references 7230.. which immediately begs the question =
of what about 7540.</p>
<p>assuming http-core won't be an rfc before this is published (and its not=
 worth waiting for it) it would probably be good to have a paragraph just s=
aying that 7230 defines both semantics and wire protocol, and 7540 is an al=
ternative wire protocol for those same semantics (ummm.. plus push.).. and =
that your text in bcp56bis is generally scoped to the semantics unless othe=
rwise noted. That might at least sort things out a bit.</p>
<p>this might also be a place to say that best practices of using http limi=
t themselves to the semantics.. 4.1 kinda says that - not sure about a spec=
ific suggestion</p>

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Much of the text of "3.3 Rich Functionality" discusses the merits of granular uris, but in one fell swoop it dismisses post/single-uri pattern as benefiting from only a very short and finite list of features: message framing, and availability of implementations.

I find the former convincing, but the latter dismissal rather unconvincing.. it gives the air of being a complete argument but leaves out a lot of valuable other things even in a mere tunnel case - e.g. proxy support, varied authentication schemes, content negotiation, language negotiation, multiplexing  in h2, alt-service routing, coalsecing, and cross-origin policy enforcement in a browser, etc... These are reasonable motivators and you might be underselling the value of high quality available implementations for all aspects of the ecosystem including load balancers.

I wonder if this could be more focused on the merits of URI design rather than saying - if you don't find that a match don't use http.

and the bullet about "The ability to interact with the application easily using a Web browser" might be clarified to mean in a linkable/browsable/discoverable sense rather than excluding a fetch based API for it..

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<p>Much of the text of "3.3 Rich Functionality" discusses the merits of granular uris, but in one fell swoop it dismisses post/single-uri pattern as benefiting from only a very short and finite list of features: message framing, and availability of implementations.</p>
<p>I find the former convincing, but the latter dismissal rather unconvincing.. it gives the air of being a complete argument but leaves out a lot of valuable other things even in a mere tunnel case - e.g. proxy support, varied authentication schemes, content negotiation, language negotiation, multiplexing  in h2, alt-service routing, coalsecing, and cross-origin policy enforcement in a browser, etc... These are reasonable motivators and you might be underselling the value of high quality available implementations for all aspects of the ecosystem including load balancers.</p>
<p>I wonder if this could be more focused on the merits of URI design rather than saying - if you don't find that a match don't use http.</p>
<p>and the bullet about "The ability to interact with the application easily using a Web browser" might be clarified to mean in a linkable/browsable/discoverable sense rather than excluding a fetch based API for it..</p>

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My assumption has been that once core settles down, we'll change references appropriately, and this will sit in the queue depending on core.

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<p>My assumption has been that once core settles down, we'll change references appropriately, and this will sit in the queue depending on core.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] bcp56bis: fix typo in FETCH reference (#609)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609

-- Commit Summary --

  * bcp56bis: fix typo in FETCH reference

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>bcp56bis: fix typo in FETCH reference</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Date: Sat, 05 May 2018 09:44:01 +0000 (UTC)
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: no references in abstract (#610)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: no references in abstract

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: no references in abstract</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Date: Sat, 05 May 2018 09:46:11 +0000 (UTC)
To: httpwg/http-extensions <http-extensions@noreply.github.com>
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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: type the artwork and reduce the width once more (#611)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: type the artwork and reduce the width once more

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (4)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: type the artwork and reduce the width once more</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (4)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #609.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320480369" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/609" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/609">#609</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] [cache digests] Eliminate requirement that the digest size is a power of 2 (#607)
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I'm curious, what digest sizes are you anticipating from implementations?

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<p>I'm curious, what digest sizes are you anticipating from implementations?</p>

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Merged #610.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320495383" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/610" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/610">#610</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] [cache digests] Eliminate requirement that the digest size is a power of 2 (#607)
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I thought it might be useful to post a plain english explanation of the indexing strategy @bdupras and I proposed:

The property that we need to maintain is that the primary and secondary indices can be calculated in terms of each other (ie, the only info we have available is their position in the table, and the fingerprint). We maintain this property in the following way. 

First, we calculate an offset, which is based on the fingerprint. Crucially, this offset is always odd: `offset = makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))`. 

This offset is then either subtracted or added to the current position to get the other index. If the current index is odd, it's added. If it's even, it's subtracted. Since the offset is always the same, this jumps between the two possible indices. Further, because adding or subtracting an odd number always flips the evenness or oddness of a number, this guarantees that one position is always even and one is always odd. 

In pseudo code, it looks like this:

```
makeOdd(x) = x    [if x is odd]
             x+1  [if x is even]

flipIndex(currentIndex) = currentIndex + makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if index is odd]
                          currentIndex - makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if index is even]
```

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<p>I thought it might be useful to post a plain english explanation of the =
indexing strategy <a class=3D"user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id=3D"23147=
46" data-octo-click=3D"hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions=3D"link_t=
ype:self" href=3D"https://github.com/bdupras">@bdupras</a> and I proposed:<=
/p>
<p>The property that we need to maintain is that the primary and secondary =
indices can be calculated in terms of each other (ie, the only info we have=
 available is their position in the table, and the fingerprint). We maintai=
n this property in the following way.</p>
<p>First, we calculate an offset, which is based on the fingerprint. Crucia=
lly, this offset is always odd: <code>offset =3D makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))=
</code>.</p>
<p>This offset is then either subtracted or added to the current position t=
o get the other index. If the current index is odd, it's added. If it's eve=
n, it's subtracted. Since the offset is always the same, this jumps between=
 the two possible indices. Further, because adding or subtracting an odd nu=
mber always flips the evenness or oddness of a number, this guarantees that=
 one position is always even and one is always odd.</p>
<p>In pseudo code, it looks like this:</p>
<pre><code>makeOdd(x) =3D x    [if x is odd]
             x+1  [if x is even]

flipIndex(currentIndex) =3D currentIndex + makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if=
 index is odd]
                          currentIndex - makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if i=
ndex is even]
</code></pre>

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g strategy @bdupras and I proposed:\r\n\r\nThe property that we need to mai=
ntain is that the primary and secondary indices can be calculated in terms =
of each other (ie, the only info we have available is their position in the=
 table, and the fingerprint). We maintain this property in the following wa=
y. \r\n\r\nFirst, we calculate an offset, which is based on the fingerprint=
. Crucially, this offset is always odd: `offset =3D makeOdd(hash(fingerprin=
t))`. \r\n\r\nThis offset is then either subtracted or added to the current=
 position to get the other index. If the current index is odd, it's added. =
If it's even, it's subtracted. Since the offset is always the same, this ju=
mps between the two possible indices. Further, because adding or subtractin=
g an odd number always flips the evenness or oddness of a number, this guar=
antees that one position is always even and one is always odd. \r\n\r\nIn p=
seudo code, it looks like this:\r\n\r\n```\r\nmakeOdd(x) =3D x    [if x is =
odd]\r\n             x+1  [if x is even]\r\n\r\nflipIndex(currentIndex) =3D=
 currentIndex + makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if index is odd]\r\n         =
                 currentIndex - makeOdd(hash(fingerprint))   [if index is e=
ven]\r\n```"}],"action":{"name":"View Issue","url":"https://github.com/http=
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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] bcp56bis: rich functionality - maybe focus on uri granularity (#608)
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@mcmanus ^^

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="260531" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mcmanus">@mcmanus</a> ^^</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] bcp56bis: rich functionality - maybe focus on uri granularity (#608)
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lgtm - thanks

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<p>lgtm - thanks</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] bcp56bis: rich functionality - maybe focus on uri granularity (#608)
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Closed #608.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320450155" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/608" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/608">#608</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: type the artwork and reduce the width once more (#611)
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Merged #611.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320495717" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/611" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/611">#611</a>.</p>

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> Certificates - Applications using HTTP MUST specify that TLS certificates are to be checked according to [RFC2818] when HTTPS is used.

why is this more special than any of the other 2818 rules (it is a MUST there I believe)? This doesn't seem to square with the optional theme of cookies and redirects.

cool btw that https is RECCOMMENDED

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<blockquote>
<p>Certificates - Applications using HTTP MUST specify that TLS certificates are to be checked according to [RFC2818] when HTTPS is used.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>why is this more special than any of the other 2818 rules (it is a MUST there I believe)? This doesn't seem to square with the optional theme of cookies and redirects.</p>
<p>cool btw that https is RECCOMMENDED</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] consider hsts (#613)
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section 4.3.2

> HTTP-specific features such as cookies [RFC6265], authentication [RFC7235=
], caching [RFC7234], and CORS [FETCH] might or might not work correctly, d=
epending on how they are defined and implemented. Generally, they are desig=
ned and implemented with an assumption that the URL will always be =E2=80=
=9Chttp=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Chttps=E2=80=9D.

likely worth working HSTS into that list.. we've seen it fail to provide it=
s security benefit when mixed on hosts that provide ftp resources


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<p>section 4.3.2</p>
<blockquote>
<p>HTTP-specific features such as cookies [RFC6265], authentication [RFC723=
5], caching [RFC7234], and CORS [FETCH] might or might not work correctly, =
depending on how they are defined and implemented. Generally, they are desi=
gned and implemented with an assumption that the URL will always be =E2=80=
=9Chttp=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Chttps=E2=80=9D.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>likely worth working HSTS into that list.. we've seen it fail to provide=
 its security benefit when mixed on hosts that provide ftp resources</p>

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All of the references are currently normative. After a quick read, I think the following can be moved to Informative:

* HTML / HTML5
* FETCH
* RFC5246


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<p>All of the references are currently normative. After a quick read, I think the following can be moved to Informative:</p>
<ul>
<li>HTML / HTML5</li>
<li>FETCH</li>
<li>RFC5246</li>
</ul>

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Emily - there are a few things going on here:

1. If you want to keep the WHATWG HTML reference, you need to actually use it.
2. The WHATWG has moved away from listing document authors, so you'll need to reflect that.
3. How to reference HTML is a thorny issue. I personally think the right thing to do is reference both the WHATWG and W3C specifications; YMMV. 
4. Referencing "living documents" may cause some issues/discussion in IETF evaluation. However, we're going to need to figure out how to do that, as we're starting to have more dependencies on WHATWG documents, so don't take that as discouragement from referencing them.

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<p>Emily - there are a few things going on here:</p>
<ol>
<li>If you want to keep the WHATWG HTML reference, you need to actually use=
 it.</li>
<li>The WHATWG has moved away from listing document authors, so you'll need=
 to reflect that.</li>
<li>How to reference HTML is a thorny issue. I personally think the right t=
hing to do is reference both the WHATWG and W3C specifications; YMMV.</li>
<li>Referencing "living documents" may cause some issues/discussion in IETF=
 evaluation. However, we're going to need to figure out how to do that, as =
we're starting to have more dependencies on WHATWG documents, so don't take=
 that as discouragement from referencing them.</li>
</ol>

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ved away from listing document authors, so you'll need to reflect that.\r\n=
3. How to reference HTML is a thorny issue. I personally think the right th=
ing to do is reference both the WHATWG and W3C specifications; YMMV. \r\n4.=
 Referencing \"living documents\" may cause some issues/discussion in IETF =
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Closed #613 via 3e2354cb535374d6f49f150b4346aee875bad851.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320938366" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/613" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/613">#613</a> via <a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/3e2354cb535374d6f49f150b4346aee875bad851"><tt>3e2354c</tt></a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] shout out to cert checking (#612)
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Not sure I understand; the intent is to require clients to check certificates; is there a more clear way to say that?

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<p>Not sure I understand; the intent is to require clients to check certificates; is there a more clear way to say that?</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Client authentication with certificates (#615)
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This isn't mentioned in the client authentication section.  It's a practice that is used quite often, so it should be mentioned.  That naturally means addressing some of the (many) shortcomings though.

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<p>This isn't mentioned in the client authentication section.  It's a practice that is used quite often, so it should be mentioned.  That naturally means addressing some of the (many) shortcomings though.</p>

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Do we have best practices for that, or is it just something that should be mentioned in passing? (I'm trying not to have this become a compendium of everything HTTP, and perhaps already failing at that).

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<p>Do we have best practices for that, or is it just something that should be mentioned in passing? (I'm trying not to have this become a compendium of everything HTTP, and perhaps already failing at that).</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Client authentication with certificates (#615)
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In passing would suffice.  As in, "With HTTPS, clients might also be authenticated using certificates."  If you want to avoid the compendium problem, avoid getting into the shortcomings.

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<p>In passing would suffice.  As in, "With HTTPS, clients might also be authenticated using certificates."  If you want to avoid the compendium problem, avoid getting into the shortcomings.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] shout out to cert checking (#612)
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sorry that wasn't very clear.

The section was on stuff that normally isn't mandatory (like chasing redirects) - I was having trouble seeing how certificate checking fit in there. Its a mandatory part of https so it might not even rate mention - is there confusion on it?



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<p>sorry that wasn't very clear.</p>
<p>The section was on stuff that normally isn't mandatory (like chasing r=
edirects) - I was having trouble seeing how certificate checking fit in t=
here. Its a mandatory part of https so it might not even rate mention - i=
s there confusion on it?</p>

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I just reread 2818 - and I think want to retract the issue now.. the 2818 language is restricted to validating server identity afaict.

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<p>I just reread 2818 - and I think want to retract the issue now.. the 2=
818 language is restricted to validating server identity afaict.</p>

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Closed #612.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="320936285" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/612" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/612">#612</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Reword exclusion regarding retries (#616)
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@MikeBishop noted that automated retries can be initiated by other enties than the client, which might be without client knowledge.  That's a fair point and an opportunity to improve text more.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616

-- Commit Summary --

  * Reword exclusion regarding retries

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md (5)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.diff

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<p><a class=3D"user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id=3D"4273797" data-octo=
-click=3D"hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions=3D"link_type:self" h=
ref=3D"https://github.com/MikeBishop">@MikeBishop</a> noted that automate=
d retries can be initiated by other enties than the client, which might b=
e without client knowledge.  That's a fair point and an opportunity to im=
prove text more.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
616'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Reword exclusion regarding retries</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md</a>
    (5)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/616.diff</a></li>
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You're still glossing over the fact that retries can be initiated by something other than the client, but this focuses specifically on client-initiated actions, so that's probably okay.

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<p>You're still glossing over the fact that retries can be initiated by s=
omething other than the client, but this focuses specifically on client-i=
nitiated actions, so that's probably okay.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Client authentication with certificates (#615)
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Probably want a reference to TLS in there for further reading.

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<p>Probably want a reference to TLS in there for further reading.</p>

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The glossing-over is intentional. :)

Getting into what an intermediary might do here is what the rest of the document covers.  The primary point here is to separate replay from intentional retries.

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<p>The glossing-over is intentional. :)</p>
<p>Getting into what an intermediary might do here is what the rest of th=
e document covers.  The primary point here is to separate replay from int=
entional retries.</p>

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I'm not seeing the benefit of the rewording here. How about this instead ?

The difference between replay attacks and retries is that retries may be performed by a user, a client or an intermediary for the purpose of getting a response that will be delivered to the client, while a replay attack is generally performed by a third party not part of the chain from the client to the server, which is not interested in receiving a response, will often not receive it, and not even know whether or not such a response was provided or not.


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<p>I'm not seeing the benefit of the rewording here. How about this inste=
ad ?</p>
<p>The difference between replay attacks and retries is that retries may =
be performed by a user, a client or an intermediary for the purpose of ge=
tting a response that will be delivered to the client, while a replay att=
ack is generally performed by a third party not part of the chain from th=
e client to the server, which is not interested in receiving a response, =
will often not receive it, and not even know whether or not such a respon=
se was provided or not.</p>

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@bdupras 
> I'm curious, what digest sizes are you anticipating from implementations?

The anticipation is that we would have typically up to hundreds (but not thousands) of entries. Please refer to https://github.com/httpwg/wg-materials/blob/gh-pages/ietf100/cache-digest.pdf.

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<blockquote>
<p>I'm curious, what digest sizes are you anticipating from implementatio=
ns?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The anticipation is that we would have typically up to hundreds (but n=
ot thousands) of entries. Please refer to <a href=3D"https://github.com/h=
ttpwg/wg-materials/blob/gh-pages/ietf100/cache-digest.pdf">https://github=
.com/httpwg/wg-materials/blob/gh-pages/ietf100/cache-digest.pdf</a>.</p>

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@beala That's interesting. Thank you for the explanation.

OTOH, I am not sure if it is actually optimal compared to using XOR for a table having a size of power-of-two.

The approach you described distributes the secondary index to N / 2 entries where N is the size of the table. IMO, it is essentially the same as omitting the last bit of the fingerprint (and hard-coding it as `1` instead) when we use XOR-based approach.

What I am trying to state here is that while I can understand the potential benefit of using the approach for tables that do not have the size of power-of-two, I do not see a benefit for the cache-digest use-case adopting that approach, under the assumption that the clients would resize the table using exponential backoff.

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ef=3D"https://github.com/beala">@beala</a> That's interesting. Thank you =
for the explanation.</p>
<p>OTOH, I am not sure if it is actually optimal compared to using XOR fo=
r a table having a size of power-of-two.</p>
<p>The approach you described distributes the secondary index to N / 2 en=
tries where N is the size of the table. IMO, it is essentially the same a=
s omitting the last bit of the fingerprint (and hard-coding it as <code>1=
</code> instead) when we use XOR-based approach.</p>
<p>What I am trying to state here is that while I can understand the pote=
ntial benefit of using the approach for tables that do not have the size =
of power-of-two, I do not see a benefit for the cache-digest use-case ado=
pting that approach, under the assumption that the clients would resize t=
he table using exponential backoff.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] MitM detection (#617)
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Secondary certs depends on there not being a MitM.  And sadly, they still exist in some places.

Now, as an advisory extra, the failure mode isn't fatal to the connection, but it could mean a lot of wasted effort.  So we could pack the setting with 32 bits extracted from the exporter as confirmation that the mechanism works, or design a new mechanism to reduce the chance that we waste effort on creating authenticators that we can't use.

Either way, it's probably worth mentioning this possibility.

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<p>Secondary certs depends on there not being a MitM.  And sadly, they st=
ill exist in some places.</p>
<p>Now, as an advisory extra, the failure mode isn't fatal to the connect=
ion, but it could mean a lot of wasted effort.  So we could pack the sett=
ing with 32 bits extracted from the exporter as confirmation that the mec=
hanism works, or design a new mechanism to reduce the chance that we wast=
e effort on creating authenticators that we can't use.</p>
<p>Either way, it's probably worth mentioning this possibility.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] typo 6265bis fix (#618)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618

-- Commit Summary --

  * typo 6265bis fix

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
618'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>typo 6265bis fix</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc6265bis.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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mikewest approved this pull request.

Thank you!



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<p><b>@mikewest</b> approved this pull request.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

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Merged #618.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="321978852" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/618" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/618">#618</a>.</p>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619

-- Commit Summary --

  * typo in GET bcp56bis

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
619'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>typo in GET bcp56bis</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619.diff</a></li>
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Merged #619.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="322198400" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/619" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/619">#619</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] h2-ws: consistent use of "header field" (#620)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620

-- Commit Summary --

  * h2-ws: consistent use of "header field"

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md (40)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
620'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>h2-ws: consistent use of &quot;header field&quot;</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-h2-websockets.md</a>
    (40)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/620.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] early-data: iana links (#621)
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use registry URIs consistently
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621

-- Commit Summary --

  * early-data: iana links

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md (3)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.diff

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<p>use registry URIs consistently</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
621'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>early-data: iana links</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md</a>
    (3)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] MitM detection (#617)
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Thirty-two bits from the exporter seems like a reasonable mitigation.  That's fairly low cost.

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<p>Thirty-two bits from the exporter seems like a reasonable mitigation. =
 That's fairly low cost.</p>

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Merged #621.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="322261241" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/621" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/621">#621</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] MitM detection (#617)
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The only wrinkle is that they might be all zero.  If settings parsers return 0 and the exporter returns an all zero 32-bit value, then there is a possibility of a false positive.

I think that we can either force a bit to one and lose a bit, or emphasize that endpoints have to check for the *presence* of the setting as well as its value.

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<p>The only wrinkle is that they might be all zero.  If settings parsers =
return 0 and the exporter returns an all zero 32-bit value, then there is=
 a possibility of a false positive.</p>
<p>I think that we can either force a bit to one and lose a bit, or empha=
size that endpoints have to check for the <em>presence</em> of the settin=
g as well as its value.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Treat invalid header fields conservatively (#622)
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As discussed on the list.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622

-- Commit Summary --

  * Treat invalid header fields conservatively

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md (5)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.diff

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<p>As discussed on the list.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/=
622'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Treat invalid header fields conservatively</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622/files#d=
iff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-replay.md</a>
    (5)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.patch=
'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D'https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.diff'=
>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622.diff</a></li>
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looks good, OK for me. Thanks Martin!

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<p>looks good, OK for me. Thanks Martin!</p>

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Merged #622.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="322547397" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/622" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/622">#622</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Header fields that are valid SH, but invalid according to the definition of that field (#623)
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If a header field is valid according to SH, but invalid according to some additional constraints that are included in the definition of the specific header field, what happens?

* it needs to be dropped because malformed header fields are dropped according to SH

* the definition of the specific header field needs to define what happens in this case

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<p>If a header field is valid according to SH, but invalid according to s=
ome additional constraints that are included in the definition of the spe=
cific header field, what happens?</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>it needs to be dropped because malformed header fields are dropped acc=
ording to SH</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>the definition of the specific header field needs to define what happe=
ns in this case</p>
</li>
</ul>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Structure limits (#578)
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@mnot pushed 3 commits.

6a9ad12  Merge branch 'master' into structure-limits
7bf7ff8  Merge branch 'master' into structure-limits
0d77829  talk about header size limits


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<p><a href=3D"https://github.com/mnot" class=3D"user-mention">@mnot</a> p=
ushed 3 commits.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class=3D"commit-link" href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-ext=
ensions/commit/6a9ad12">6a9ad12</a>  Merge branch &#39;master&#39; into s=
tructure-limits</li>
  <li><a class=3D"commit-link" href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-ext=
ensions/commit/7bf7ff8">7bf7ff8</a>  Merge branch &#39;master&#39; into s=
tructure-limits</li>
  <li><a class=3D"commit-link" href=3D"https://github.com/httpwg/http-ext=
ensions/commit/0d77829">0d77829</a>  talk about header size limits</li>
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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

1745c45  Remove length constraint on identifiers


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/1745c45">1745c45</a>  Remove length constraint on identifiers</li>
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`0*`

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<p><code>0*</code></p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Remove length constraint on identifiers (1745c45)
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right.

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<p>right.</p>

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@mnot pushed 1 commit.

2c06d04  not 1*


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<p><a href="https://github.com/mnot" class="user-mention">@mnot</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

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  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/2c06d04">2c06d04</a>  not 1*</li>
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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Rough in Server Push (9985fa9)
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Server push is based around request and response with headers and a body. How is this not part of the "core" semantics?

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<p>Server push is based around request and response with headers and a body. How is this not part of the "core" semantics?</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Rough in Server Push (9985fa9)
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This language is jumping the gun quite a bit. For example, the Node.js v10 release just this month finally includes Server Push support and is expected to enter LTS in October. It is normal for implementors to lag the standard.

Lack of Browser API support is not for lack of enthusiasm by the web developer community, judged by the many conference talks and blog posts about Server Push. Many web developers eagerly await (and work towards) better support for this feature.

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<p>This language is jumping the gun quite a bit. For example, the Node.js=
 v10 release just this month finally includes Server Push support and is =
expected to enter LTS in October. It is normal for implementors to lag th=
e standard.</p>
<p>Lack of Browser API support is not for lack of enthusiasm by the web d=
eveloper community, judged by the many conference talks and blog posts ab=
out Server Push. Many web developers eagerly await (and work towards) bet=
ter support for this feature.</p>

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(See also: comments on the commit)

This language sounds very strange in the light of recent(ly improved) implementations of Server Push in major web development frameworks (e.g. Node.js v10) and servers (Nginx). Most CDNs also have support for Server Push so that claim is dubious. All major browsers support it.

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<p>(See also: comments on the commit)</p>
<p>This language sounds very strange in the light of recent(ly improved) =
implementations of Server Push in major web development frameworks (e.g. =
Node.js v10) and servers (Nginx). Most CDNs also have support for Server =
Push so that claim is dubious. All major browsers support it.</p>

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I agree, i think it's a little odd to encode this in an rfc. It's still early days and I see huge potential for things like API's. Maybe that's just me

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<p>I agree, i think it's a little odd to encode this in an rfc. It's still early days and I see huge potential for things like API's. Maybe that's just me</p>

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@evert I don't think you are alone. Shameless plug for a White Paper I wrote about prototyping a Server Push API that could be used for a variety of things (but in this particular case for video streaming).

[BBC R&D WHP 336 - Scalable media delivery on the Web with HTTP Server Push](https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper336)

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I agree. I_ think there is tremendous potential in HTTP/2 APIs for more fine grained control how to handle server push (e.g. priority/order)

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<p>I agree. I_ think there is tremendous potential in HTTP/2 APIs for more fine grained control how to handle server push (e.g. priority/order)</p>

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Merged #489.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="296378367" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/489" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/489">#489</a>.</p>

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Closing per https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/420#issuecomment-379127529

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<p>Closing per <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="274925173" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/420" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/420#issuecomment-379127529">#420 (comment)</a></p>

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Closed #420.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="274925173" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/420" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/420">#420</a>.</p>

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Closed #356.

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This is covered as an exception in Fetch now: https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-protocol-exceptions

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<p>This is covered as an exception in Fetch now: <a href="https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-protocol-exceptions" rel="nofollow">https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-protocol-exceptions</a></p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Allow both v1 and v2 SCTs to be included in Expect-CT reports (#358)
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Closed #358.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="237048374" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/358" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/358">#358</a>.</p>

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Closed #383 via 713e572b277a4ff1e23d0a55f9c8c4124098eb05.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="250240142" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/383" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/383">#383</a> via <a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/713e572b277a4ff1e23d0a55f9c8c4124098eb05"><tt>713e572</tt></a>.</p>

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FWIW, I don't think this is going to work, because references appear in a "MUST NOT" statement, but are listed as informative. 

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<p>FWIW, I don't think this is going to work, because references appear in a "MUST NOT" statement, but are listed as informative.</p>

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Merged #578.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="313550087" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/578" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/578">#578</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] expect-ct: add IANA considerations (#624)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624

-- Commit Summary --

  * expect-ct: add IANA considerations

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md (28)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>expect-ct: add IANA considerations</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md</a>
    (28)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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...avoid too wide artwork by changing the second example to use multiple field instances (which, in itself, is good to have in the examples anyway)
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625

-- Commit Summary --

  * expect-ct: tune examples

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md (6)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.diff

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<p>...avoid too wide artwork by changing the second example to use multiple field instances (which, in itself, is good to have in the examples anyway)</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>expect-ct: tune examples</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md</a>
    (6)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Header fields that are valid SH, but invalid according to the definition of that field (#623)
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Current text:

> However, header field authors are encouraged to clearly state additional constraints upon the syntax, as well as the consequences when those constraints are violated. When Structured Headers parsing fails, the header is discarded (see {{text}}); in most situations, header-specific constraints should do likewise.

Is that sufficient?

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<p>Current text:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>However, header field authors are encouraged to clearly state addition=
al constraints upon the syntax, as well as the consequences when those co=
nstraints are violated. When Structured Headers parsing fails, the header=
 is discarded (see {{text}}); in most situations, header-specific constra=
ints should do likewise.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Is that sufficient?</p>

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Closed #433.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="277232586" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/433" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/433">#433</a>.</p>

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Thanks!

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<p>Thanks!</p>

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Merged #625.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="325255522" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/625" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/625">#625</a>.</p>

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Merged #624.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="325235181" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/624" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/624">#624</a>.</p>

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect-CT: update text about http-equiv (#626)
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626

-- Commit Summary --

  * Expect-CT: update text about http-equiv

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md (4)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Expect-CT: update text about http-equiv</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-expect-ct.md</a>
    (4)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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@reschke @mnot thanks for the explanation/suggestion on the list. Does this look about right to you?

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="332994" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/reschke">@reschke</a> <a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="74384" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mnot">@mnot</a> thanks for the explanation/suggestion on the list. Does this look about right to you?</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Header fields that are valid SH, but invalid according to the definition of that field (#623)
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Closed #623.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="322685774" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/623" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/623">#623</a>.</p>

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Yes. 

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<p>Yes.</p>

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LGTM.

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<p>LGTM.</p>

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- avoid lowercase "should" unless you refer to [RFC8174] in "Terminology"

FWIW, I still think that citing both HTML specs does not help the reader, and that the whole section isn't needed. If it was needed, why don't we say the same thing in draft-ietf-httpbis-replay-03?


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<ul>
<li>avoid lowercase "should" unless you refer to [RFC8174] in "Terminolog=
y"</li>
</ul>
<p>FWIW, I still think that citing both HTML specs does not help the read=
er, and that the whole section isn't needed. If it was needed, why don't =
we say the same thing in draft-ietf-httpbis-replay-03?</p>

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I've started sketching out a feature that intends to deliver a structured header as part of an HTTP request, and I find myself doing a little more hand-waving than I'd like in step 6 of https://mikewest.github.io/sec-metadata/#abstract-opdef-set-the-sec-metadata-header-for-a-request.

The end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-04#section-1 suggests that:

>   Those abstract types can be serialised into textual headers - such as those used in HTTP/1 and HTTP/2 - using the algorithms described in Section 3.

Section 3, however, seems to be the opposite: parsing a string into a Structured Header. I don't actually see a serialization algorithm in the document. Each type hints at how it might be serialized, but it would be nice to have an algorithm to point to.

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<p>I've started sketching out a feature that intends to deliver a structured header as part of an HTTP request, and I find myself doing a little more hand-waving than I'd like in step 6 of <a href="https://mikewest.github.io/sec-metadata/#abstract-opdef-set-the-sec-metadata-header-for-a-request" rel="nofollow">https://mikewest.github.io/sec-metadata/#abstract-opdef-set-the-sec-metadata-header-for-a-request</a>.</p>
<p>The end of <a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-04#section-1" rel="nofollow">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-04#section-1</a> suggests that:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Those abstract types can be serialised into textual headers - such as those used in HTTP/1 and HTTP/2 - using the algorithms described in Section 3.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Section 3, however, seems to be the opposite: parsing a string into a Structured Header. I don't actually see a serialization algorithm in the document. Each type hints at how it might be serialized, but it would be nice to have an algorithm to point to.</p>

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(For example, can we assume any ordering in the serialization of a dictionary? :) )

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<p>(For example, can we assume any ordering in the serialization of a dictionary? :) )</p>

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I don't have any strong feelings on this, I'm happy to just remove it. I cribbed it from HPKP originally. (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7469#section-2.3.4)

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<p>I don't have any strong feelings on this, I'm happy to just remove it. I cribbed it from HPKP originally. (<a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7469#section-2.3.4" rel="nofollow">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7469#section-2.3.4</a>)</p>

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Makes sense, will do in the next round.

One hitch is that *eventually*, we want to be able to define alternative serialisations of the header field in new versions of HTTP, so we'll have to be careful in how we do this. Or just admit that there will be some residual hand-waving.

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<p>Makes sense, will do in the next round.</p>
<p>One hitch is that <em>eventually</em>, we want to be able to define al=
ternative serialisations of the header field in new versions of HTTP, so =
we'll have to be careful in how we do this. Or just admit that there will=
 be some residual hand-waving.</p>

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> Makes sense, will do in the next round.

Thanks, no rush. :)

> One hitch is that eventually, we want to be able to define alternative serialisations of the header field in new versions of HTTP, so we'll have to be careful in how we do this. Or just admit that there will be some residual hand-waving.

Some level of hand-waving seems fine, though I'd prefer that it be constrained to this document, and not all the documents that wish to define structured headers. If we can end up with a single algorithm, no matter how complicated, that takes a structured header object and outputs a string, I'll be happy to use it!

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<blockquote>
<p>Makes sense, will do in the next round.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks, no rush. :)</p>
<blockquote>
<p>One hitch is that eventually, we want to be able to define alternative=
 serialisations of the header field in new versions of HTTP, so we'll hav=
e to be careful in how we do this. Or just admit that there will be some =
residual hand-waving.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Some level of hand-waving seems fine, though I'd prefer that it be con=
strained to this document, and not all the documents that wish to define =
structured headers. If we can end up with a single algorithm, no matter h=
ow complicated, that takes a structured header object and outputs a strin=
g, I'll be happy to use it!</p>

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There seems to be some ambiguity around same-site-ness for requests from refreshes. See 

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<p>There seems to be some ambiguity around same-site-ness for requests from refreshes. See</p>

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@mikewest suggested using structured headers for Cross-Origin-Resource-Policy in https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/pull/733 which makes sense, but requiring origins to be embedded in strings seems rather awkward and doesn't have precedent with the existing headers.

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="1497" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mikewest">@mikewest</a> suggested using structured headers for Cross-Origin-Resource-Policy in <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="326061611" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/733" href="https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/pull/733">whatwg/fetch#733</a> which makes sense, but requiring origins to be embedded in strings seems rather awkward and doesn't have precedent with the existing headers.</p>

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Is it intentional that `"test"test` does not fail and returns `test`? Might be worth a note if so.

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<p>Is it intentional that <code>"test"test</code> does not fail and returns <code>test</code>? Might be worth a note if so.</p>

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In fact, several existing header fields use angle brackets as delimiters (Link, Dav, If). SH tries to get away with one delimiter syntax, so quoted-string it is.


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<p>In fact, several existing header fields use angle brackets as delimiters (Link, Dav, If). SH tries to get away with one delimiter syntax, so quoted-string it is.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Clarify behaviour on page refresh for SameSite cookies (#628)
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Some things to think about:

- Do `location.reload()`, `window.location = ...` and other non-user initiated requests count as redirects? Should they send `SameSite` cookies?
- Should POST data be sent on a refresh?

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<p>Some things to think about:</p>
<ul>
<li>Do <code>location.reload()</code>, <code>window.location = ...</code> and other non-user initiated requests count as redirects? Should they send <code>SameSite</code> cookies?</li>
<li>Should POST data be sent on a refresh?</li>
</ul>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Stream-linking frames can reference Stream Zero (#586)
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@MikeBishop pushed 1 commit.

07cf01b  transaction, not transition


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<p><a href="https://github.com/MikeBishop" class="user-mention">@MikeBishop</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/07cf01b">07cf01b</a>  transaction, not transition</li>
</ul>


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@kazuho, @martinthomson, I would appreciate it if you could give this a look.  Do you think this is a good approach?

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="41567" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/kazuho">@kazuho</a>, <a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="67641" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/martinthomson">@martinthomson</a>, I would appreciate it if you could give this a look.  Do you think this is a good approach?</p>

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@estark37 pushed 1 commit.

e25254c  remove meta section


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<p><a href="https://github.com/estark37" class="user-mention">@estark37</a> pushed 1 commit.</p>

<ul>
  <li><a class="commit-link" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/e25254c">e25254c</a>  remove meta section</li>
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This is removed now.

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<p>This is removed now.</p>

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Nod - but the hitch is "outputs a string" -- in that future world, it might be binary...

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<p>Nod - but the hitch is "outputs a string" -- in that future world, it might be binary...</p>

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martinthomson requested changes on this pull request.

This makes me convinced that we probably want to hold exported authenticators for a little while longer.  See the big comment.

>  
-If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST \[see issue #564].
-In this case, or if the server has not advertised support for HTTP-layer
-certificates, the client MUST NOT send any requests for resources in that origin
-on the current connection.
+If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST send an empty
+`USE_CERTIFICATE` frame for stream zero.  In this case, or if the server has not

When you say empty, I think that you mean that the server sends an empty CERTIFICATE frame and then references that certificate when it wants to reject a CERTIFICATE_NEEDED request.

That is:

```
Client Sends:
CERTIFICATE_REQUEST (id=N) -->
CERTIFICATE_NEEDED (S=0, R=M) -->
...
Server can't answer, so:
<-- CERTIFICATE (Cert-ID=Q, <empty>)
<-- USE_CERTIFICATE (S=0, R=M)
```

The problem here is that the empty CERTIFICATE frame isn't bound in any way to the CERTIFICATE_REQUEST, unless your definition of "empty" isn't that the authenticator is completely absent, but that it includes a valid authenticator, but no certificate in the TLS Certificate message.  Then the `certificate_request_context` can be used to correlate CERTIFICATE with CERTIFICATE_REQUEST in the usual fashion.  That's how TLS does it - it sends Certificate without the certificate and omits the CertificateVerify message entirely if it doesn't want to authenticate.  (I just realized that I used CERTIFICATE, Certificate and certificate in the same paragraph to mean three different things, which is not at all confusing.)

I just read exported authenticators again and I don't see that use case being addressed at all.  @grittygrease should be aware of that given that TLSEA is in WGLC.  I think that TLSEA needs to address that case one way or other.  If the intent is to have the using application manage rejection, then it needs to be clear where the responsibility lies.  However, I think that having authenticated rejection is superior and that should be expressly included in the draft with a description of how that is done.

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<p><b>@martinthomson</b> requested changes on this pull request.</p>

<p>This makes me convinced that we probably want to hold exported authenticators for a little while longer.  See the big comment.</p><hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/586#discussion_r190758803">draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  
-If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST \[see issue #564].
-In this case, or if the server has not advertised support for HTTP-layer
-certificates, the client MUST NOT send any requests for resources in that origin
-on the current connection.
+If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST send an empty
+`USE_CERTIFICATE` frame for stream zero.  In this case, or if the server has not
</pre>
<p>When you say empty, I think that you mean that the server sends an empty CERTIFICATE frame and then references that certificate when it wants to reject a CERTIFICATE_NEEDED request.</p>
<p>That is:</p>
<pre><code>Client Sends:
CERTIFICATE_REQUEST (id=N) --&gt;
CERTIFICATE_NEEDED (S=0, R=M) --&gt;
...
Server can't answer, so:
&lt;-- CERTIFICATE (Cert-ID=Q, &lt;empty&gt;)
&lt;-- USE_CERTIFICATE (S=0, R=M)
</code></pre>
<p>The problem here is that the empty CERTIFICATE frame isn't bound in any way to the CERTIFICATE_REQUEST, unless your definition of "empty" isn't that the authenticator is completely absent, but that it includes a valid authenticator, but no certificate in the TLS Certificate message.  Then the <code>certificate_request_context</code> can be used to correlate CERTIFICATE with CERTIFICATE_REQUEST in the usual fashion.  That's how TLS does it - it sends Certificate without the certificate and omits the CertificateVerify message entirely if it doesn't want to authenticate.  (I just realized that I used CERTIFICATE, Certificate and certificate in the same paragraph to mean three different things, which is not at all confusing.)</p>
<p>I just read exported authenticators again and I don't see that use case being addressed at all.  <a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="5125095" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/grittygrease">@grittygrease</a> should be aware of that given that TLSEA is in WGLC.  I think that TLSEA needs to address that case one way or other.  If the intent is to have the using application manage rejection, then it needs to be clear where the responsibility lies.  However, I think that having authenticated rejection is superior and that should be expressly included in the draft with a description of how that is done.</p>

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How so? If there's input left over after Parsing an Item from Text, step 7 of Parsing Textual Header Fields fails.

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<p>How so? If there's input left over after Parsing an Item from Text, step 7 of Parsing Textual Header Fields fails.</p>

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LGTM, and thanks for pointing to RFC 7469. @mnot - should we raise an erratum for that spec?

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<p>LGTM, and thanks for pointing to RFC 7469. <a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="74384" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mnot">@mnot</a> - should we raise an erratum for that spec?</p>

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Ah, I was thinking later that might be what I was missing. I was just looking at string parsing in isolation.

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<p>Ah, I was thinking later that might be what I was missing. I was just looking at string parsing in isolation.</p>

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Closed #630.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="326101361" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/630" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/630">#630</a>.</p>

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How about "outputs a thing that might be a string, and might be binary, and might be trinary, or might be anything else I can hand to Fetch's `header list` [`set`](https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-header-list-set) algorithm"? Fetch talks about it in terms of a https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/#byte-sequence. Would that work for you?

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<p>How about "outputs a thing that might be a string, and might be binary=
, and might be trinary, or might be anything else I can hand to Fetch's <=
code>header list</code> <a href=3D"https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept=
-header-list-set" rel=3D"nofollow"><code>set</code></a> algorithm"? Fetch=
 talks about it in terms of a <a href=3D"https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/#b=
yte-sequence" rel=3D"nofollow">https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/#byte-sequen=
ce</a>. Would that work for you?</p>

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Given how common URLs and origins seem to be as primitive components of headers headers, perhaps splitting them out into a type distinct from "string" might make sense. The initial serialisation might even be the same, but perhaps an eventual binary format could do more interesting tricks given knowledge of the format.

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<p>Given how common URLs and origins seem to be as primitive components o=
f headers headers, perhaps splitting them out into a type distinct from "=
string" might make sense. The initial serialisation might even be the sam=
e, but perhaps an eventual binary format could do more interesting tricks=
 given knowledge of the format.</p>

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I love it: "A byte sequence is a sequence of bytes, represented as a space-separated sequence of bytes."

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<p>I love it: "A byte sequence is a sequence of bytes, represented as a space-separated sequence of bytes."</p>

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@mnot - actually, what's in a HTTP/1.1 message should also be better considered a byte sequence, not a string

@mikewest - I would prefer to have SH not to rely on FETCH in any way

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="74384" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mnot">@mnot</a> - actually, what's in a HTTP/1.1 message should also be better considered a byte sequence, not a string</p>
<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="1497" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/mikewest">@mikewest</a> - I would prefer to have SH not to rely on FETCH in any way</p>

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> I would prefer to have SH not to rely on FETCH in any way

Pedantic nit: Byte sequence isn't defined in Fetch, but in Infra. :)

I would like SH to define a serialization algorithm in such a way that I can explain to web browsers what they ought to do with the result. It would be unfortunate if it was difficult to integrate SH and Fetch, as that makes my goals more difficult.

I think all I'm asking for is a clearly defined serialization algorithm that returns a result that Fetch can accept as a header value. I'm happy to leave details up to y'all and @annevk to work out who depends on whom and why amongst yourselves. :)

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<blockquote>
<p>I would prefer to have SH not to rely on FETCH in any way</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Pedantic nit: Byte sequence isn't defined in Fetch, but in Infra. :)</=
p>
<p>I would like SH to define a serialization algorithm in such a way that=
 I can explain to web browsers what they ought to do with the result. It =
would be unfortunate if it was difficult to integrate SH and Fetch, as th=
at makes my goals more difficult.</p>
<p>I think all I'm asking for is a clearly defined serialization algorith=
m that returns a result that Fetch can accept as a header value. I'm happ=
y to leave details up to y'all and <a class=3D"user-mention" data-hoverca=
rd-user-id=3D"1544111" data-octo-click=3D"hovercard-link-click" data-octo=
-dimensions=3D"link_type:self" href=3D"https://github.com/annevk">@annevk=
</a> to work out who depends on whom and why amongst yourselves. :)</p>

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Well, that gets us back to the data model. I assume FETCH considers header field values as JavaScript strings (?), while in an HTTP/1.1 message it's really a sequence of bytes, usually restricted to values <= 127.

It's the edge case (non-ASCII) that makes this all interesting, but I believe it's a non-issue for SH.

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<p>Well, that gets us back to the data model. I assume FETCH considers he=
ader field values as JavaScript strings (?), while in an HTTP/1.1 message=
 it's really a sequence of bytes, usually restricted to values &lt;=3D 12=
7.</p>
<p>It's the edge case (non-ASCII) that makes this all interesting, but I =
believe it's a non-issue for SH.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Serialization for structured headers. (#627)
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@reschke no, byte sequences with restrictions: https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-header. (The API does convert these back and forth from JavaScript strings, using IDL's `ByteString` primitive.)

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<p><a class="user-mention" data-hovercard-user-id="332994" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/reschke">@reschke</a> no, byte sequences with restrictions: <a href="https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-header" rel="nofollow">https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-header</a>. (The API does convert these back and forth from JavaScript strings, using IDL's <code>ByteString</code> primitive.)</p>

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OK.

Right now we have only one serialization, so it's hard to discuss future ones.

The one that we have uses US-ASCII, which can be trivially encoded in octet sequences, and shouldn't have any issues with FETCH. So maybe we just need to write down this more clearly?

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<p>OK.</p>
<p>Right now we have only one serialization, so it's hard to discuss futu=
re ones.</p>
<p>The one that we have uses US-ASCII, which can be trivially encoded in =
octet sequences, and shouldn't have any issues with FETCH. So maybe we ju=
st need to write down this more clearly?</p>

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For my own understanding, the problem is that you want to create a structured header using types, but then pass that into Fetch, with Fetch only taking byte sequences, and exact byte sequences being exposed through H/1 and H/2 and probably QUIC.

Ideally you keep the types around until you hit a point where you need to serialize. That would require HTTP offering some abstraction in front of H/1, H/2 and probably QUIC that takes headers where the values can be either byte sequences or types and then serializes them as appropriate for the eventual chosen transport.

Fetch could then change its "header" primitive so values would be either byte sequences or types and pass that on to the new HTTP abstraction. And also use the H/1 / H/2 serialization for its API, which isn't typed.

As an intermediate step, structured headers could define how to obtain a byte sequence from a type. We'd continue passing byte sequences around. Then a future H/N could eagerly parse those bytes to see if it can represent them as a type instead. You'd end up with a redundant serialize/parse, but all the interfaces don't have to be changed. Implementations could optimize the serialize/parse away. And this would also allow representing byte sequences as types that weren't types to begin with, which might be beneficial.

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<p>For my own understanding, the problem is that you want to create a str=
uctured header using types, but then pass that into Fetch, with Fetch onl=
y taking byte sequences, and exact byte sequences being exposed through H=
/1 and H/2 and probably QUIC.</p>
<p>Ideally you keep the types around until you hit a point where you need=
 to serialize. That would require HTTP offering some abstraction in front=
 of H/1, H/2 and probably QUIC that takes headers where the values can be=
 either byte sequences or types and then serializes them as appropriate f=
or the eventual chosen transport.</p>
<p>Fetch could then change its "header" primitive so values would be eith=
er byte sequences or types and pass that on to the new HTTP abstraction. =
And also use the H/1 / H/2 serialization for its API, which isn't typed.<=
/p>
<p>As an intermediate step, structured headers could define how to obtain=
 a byte sequence from a type. We'd continue passing byte sequences around=
. Then a future H/N could eagerly parse those bytes to see if it can repr=
esent them as a type instead. You'd end up with a redundant serialize/par=
se, but all the interfaces don't have to be changed. Implementations coul=
d optimize the serialize/parse away. And this would also allow representi=
ng byte sequences as types that weren't types to begin with, which might =
be beneficial.</p>

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 want to create a structured header using types, but then pass that into =
Fetch, with Fetch only taking byte sequences, and exact byte sequences be=
ing exposed through H/1 and H/2 and probably QUIC.\r\n\r\nIdeally you kee=
p the types around until you hit a point where you need to serialize. Tha=
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could define how to obtain a byte sequence from a type. We'd continue pas=
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MikeBishop commented on this pull request.



>  
-If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST \[see issue #564].
-In this case, or if the server has not advertised support for HTTP-layer
-certificates, the client MUST NOT send any requests for resources in that origin
-on the current connection.
+If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST send an empty
+`USE_CERTIFICATE` frame for stream zero.  In this case, or if the server has not

Actually, "empty" probably needs to be clarified here.  In the previous draft (i.e. where things were on-stream with the request), you could omit the CertID and send a USE_CERTIFICATE with a length of zero, which meant "I don't have / choose not to provide the requested certificate.  Deal."

If ExpAuth gives us an authenticated denial, I'd be fine using it.  But I'm also fine if it doesn't -- the point of ExpAuth is proving possession, and I think declining to provide an authenticator is sufficient for our purposes.  This isn't DNSsec where we want to authoritatively prove non-existence, we're just declining to supply a certificate (or, therefore, proof of possession).

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<p><b>@MikeBishop</b> commented on this pull request.</p>

<hr>

<p>In <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/586#discussion_r191064735">draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md</a>:</p>
<pre style='color:#555'>&gt;  
-If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST \[see issue #564].
-In this case, or if the server has not advertised support for HTTP-layer
-certificates, the client MUST NOT send any requests for resources in that origin
-on the current connection.
+If the server does not have the desired certificate, it MUST send an empty
+`USE_CERTIFICATE` frame for stream zero.  In this case, or if the server has not
</pre>
<p>Actually, "empty" probably needs to be clarified here.  In the previous draft (i.e. where things were on-stream with the request), you could omit the CertID and send a USE_CERTIFICATE with a length of zero, which meant "I don't have / choose not to provide the requested certificate.  Deal."</p>
<p>If ExpAuth gives us an authenticated denial, I'd be fine using it.  But I'm also fine if it doesn't -- the point of ExpAuth is proving possession, and I think declining to provide an authenticator is sufficient for our purposes.  This isn't DNSsec where we want to authoritatively prove non-existence, we're just declining to supply a certificate (or, therefore, proof of possession).</p>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631

-- Commit Summary --

  * secondary-certs: type artwork consistently

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md (28)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>secondary-certs: type artwork consistently</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md</a>
    (28)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs-01#section-1>:

~~~
   HTTP clients need to know that the content they receive on a
   connection comes from the origin that they intended to retrieve in
   from.  The traditional form of server authentication in HTTP has been
   in the form of a single X.509 certificate provided during the TLS
   RFC5246 [I-D.ietf-tls-tls13] handshake.
~~~

This makes it  look as if RFC5246 *is* [I-D.ietf-tls-tls13].

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<p><a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs-01#section-1" rel="nofollow">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs-01#section-1</a>:</p>
<pre><code>   HTTP clients need to know that the content they receive on a
   connection comes from the origin that they intended to retrieve in
   from.  The traditional form of server authentication in HTTP has been
   in the form of a single X.509 certificate provided during the TLS
   RFC5246 [I-D.ietf-tls-tls13] handshake.
</code></pre>
<p>This makes it  look as if RFC5246 <em>is</em> [I-D.ietf-tls-tls13].</p>

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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633

-- Commit Summary --

  * uppercase "section"

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.diff

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<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>uppercase &quot;section&quot;</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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Merged #631.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327177281" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/631" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/631">#631</a>.</p>

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Merged #633.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327179116" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/633" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/633">#633</a>.</p>

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Thanks.

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<p>Thanks.</p>

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An alternative way of stating OP would be asking why identifiers are as restricted as they are in the proposal?

(I'm not entirely convinced either origin or URL is common enough to warrant its own type, FWIW.)

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<p>An alternative way of stating OP would be asking why identifiers are as restricted as they are in the proposal?</p>
<p>(I'm not entirely convinced either origin or URL is common enough to warrant its own type, FWIW.)</p>

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origin *is* a URI (reference), no?

It's quite common that certain delimiters are not allowed in identifiers. I assume we're discussing characters such as ":" and "/"?


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<p>origin <em>is</em> a URI (reference), no?</p>
<p>It's quite common that certain delimiters are not allowed in identifiers. I assume we're discussing characters such as ":" and "/"?</p>

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If you parse an origin as a URL and then serialize it, it would not be equal to the original input (it would have a trailing slash). And an opaque origin serializes as `null` which can't parse as a URL.

As for what's under discussion: "/" is already allowed. So ":" and ".", mainly, I think, but I'd have to double check if that's all.

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<p>If you parse an origin as a URL and then serialize it, it would not be=
 equal to the original input (it would have a trailing slash). And an opa=
que origin serializes as <code>null</code> which can't parse as a URL.</p=
>
<p>As for what's under discussion: "/" is already allowed. So ":" and "."=
, mainly, I think, but I'd have to double check if that's all.</p>

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> If you parse an origin as a URL and then serialize it

Depends on what you parse and serialize it with. FWIW, how does that matter in this context?

> And an opaque origin serializes as null which can't parse as a URL.

It parses as URI reference.

> As for what's under discussion: "/" is already allowed. So ":" and ".", mainly, I think, but I'd have to double check if that's all.

Hmm. <https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-04.html#identifier>:

~~~
Identifiers are short (up to 256 characters) textual identifiers; their abstract model is identical to their expression in the textual HTTP serialisation.

identifier = lcalpha *255( lcalpha / DIGIT / "_" / "-"/ "*" / "/" )
lcalpha    = %x61-7A ; a-z

Note that identifiers can only contain lowercase letters.
~~~

So I don't see ":" and "." here.

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<blockquote>
<p>If you parse an origin as a URL and then serialize it</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Depends on what you parse and serialize it with. FWIW, how does that m=
atter in this context?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And an opaque origin serializes as null which can't parse as a URL.</p=
>
</blockquote>
<p>It parses as URI reference.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>As for what's under discussion: "/" is already allowed. So ":" and "."=
, mainly, I think, but I'd have to double check if that's all.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hmm. <a href=3D"https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-httpbis-h=
eader-structure-04.html#identifier" rel=3D"nofollow">https://greenbytes.d=
e/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-04.html#identifier</a>:=
</p>
<pre><code>Identifiers are short (up to 256 characters) textual identifie=
rs; their abstract model is identical to their expression in the textual =
HTTP serialisation.

identifier =3D lcalpha *255( lcalpha / DIGIT / "_" / "-"/ "*" / "/" )
lcalpha    =3D %x61-7A ; a-z

Note that identifiers can only contain lowercase letters.
</code></pre>
<p>So I don't see ":" and "." here.</p>

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Right, that's the issue.

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<p>Right, that's the issue.</p>

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Well, you'd need more characters to be allowed so that an origin always is an identifier, no? (for instance: ",")

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<p>Well, you'd need more characters to be allowed so that an origin always is an identifier, no? (for instance: ",")</p>

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Maybe, see https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/390. I agree that if we need to continue to allow "," in hosts we better stick to strings.

Even then I'm still interested in hearing the rationale behind the characters allowed in identifiers.

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<p>Maybe, see <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="326102249" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/390" href="https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/390">whatwg/url#390</a>. I agree that if we need to continue to allow "," in hosts we better stick to strings.</p>
<p>Even then I'm still interested in hearing the rationale behind the characters allowed in identifiers.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Expect-CT: update text about http-equiv (#626)
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Merged #626.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="325529791" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/626" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/626">#626</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] secondary-certs: misleading citation (#632)
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True; I think this was originally intended to cite both, but the first one stopped being special at some point, if it ever was.  Once TLS 1.3 hits RFC, we may want to trim some of the RFC 5246 references unless we're specifically talking about the older version, too.

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<p>True; I think this was originally intended to cite both, but the first=
 one stopped being special at some point, if it ever was.  Once TLS 1.3 h=
its RFC, we may want to trim some of the RFC 5246 references unless we're=
 specifically talking about the older version, too.</p>

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Closed #485.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="294590932" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/485" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/485">#485</a>.</p>

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@martinthomson, I believe this is improved by #566.  If you think this is still an issue, please reopen.

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Subject: [httpwg/http-extensions] Encourage kramdown to use brackets (#634)
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Fixes #632.

They were both special, but for some reason the first reference wasn't getting brackets in the text output.  Putting whitespace between them doesn't affect that, but putting other characters does.
You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:

  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634

-- Commit Summary --

  * Encourage kramdown to use brackets

-- File Changes --

    M draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md (2)

-- Patch Links --

https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.patch
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.diff

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<p><span class="issue-keyword tooltipped tooltipped-se" aria-label="This pull request closes issue #632.">Fixes</span> <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327178708" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/632" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/632">#632</a>.</p>
<p>They were both special, but for some reason the first reference wasn't getting brackets in the text output.  Putting whitespace between them doesn't affect that, but putting other characters does.</p>

<hr>

<h4>You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:</h4>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634</a></p>

<h4>Commit Summary</h4>
<ul>
  <li>Encourage kramdown to use brackets</li>
</ul>

<h4>File Changes</h4>
<ul>
  <li>
    <strong>M</strong>
    <a href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634/files#diff-0">draft-ietf-httpbis-http2-secondary-certs.md</a>
    (2)
  </li>
</ul>

<h4>Patch Links:</h4>
<ul>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.patch'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.patch</a></li>
  <li><a href='https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.diff'>https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634.diff</a></li>
</ul>

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LGTM. (And yes, I tried whitespace as well :-)

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<p>LGTM. (And yes, I tried whitespace as well :-)</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] secondary-certs: misleading citation (#632)
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Closed #632 via #634.

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<p>Closed <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327178708" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/632" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/632">#632</a> via <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327421614" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/634" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634">#634</a>.</p>

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Subject: Re: [httpwg/http-extensions] Encourage kramdown to use brackets (#634)
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Merged #634.

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<p>Merged <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load issue title" data-id="327421614" data-permission-text="Issue title is private" data-url="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/634" href="https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/634">#634</a>.</p>

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