From nobody Sun Nov 1 01:25:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71483A0969 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 01:25:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CI8oNAEn4GoB for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 01:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.gristmillmedia.com (dret.net [209.188.86.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABCD43A0966 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2020 01:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 7.58.0.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch ([85.0.58.7]:49694 helo=dretpro.home) by postoffice.gristmillmedia.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kZ9cG-0001Iy-Ul; Sun, 01 Nov 2020 04:25:37 -0500 To: Evert Pot , httpapi@ietf.org References: <5a806987-70c7-e7fe-e773-11625d9c51dc@evertpot.com> From: Erik Wilde Message-ID: <3bf0efa9-10f3-30e2-2173-2e7f2140ea89@dret.net> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:25:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - postoffice.gristmillmedia.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dret.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Authenticated-Sender: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] JSON serialization for Web Linking X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 09:25:42 -0000 hello. On 2020-10-31 23:06, Evert Pot wrote: > 1. The focus is in linkset is on the linkset use-case and media-type. I > think useful to splice out specifically a JSON serialization for > weblinks. that's true. we focus on the header field as defined in RFC 8288, not on how to represent web links *anywhere*. > Even if linkset does define /a/ serialization of Web > links, I think its helpful to have something that's more focused > specifically on solving this problem. indeed, our goal is not to define reusable components (something like a microsyntax) to embed in other schemas. our goal is to define representations for sets of links. > Messaging matters, and the > linkset document does not really talk about this. afaict, it doesn't seem like we're ever creating the assumption that we're providing a representation for web links *everywhere*. we're just defining two representations of link header fields, which are sets of links. > The fact that it > does define a Web Linking serialization seems more like a > side-effect that a core goal. it's the only goal of the draft, but not in the context you're looking for. we're really not doing much more than taking the model defined in RFC 8288, and defining a JSON representation for it. > 2. linkset only describes document-wide links, which makes this > incompatible with situations where you'd want to describe links that > are not on the top-level of the document. Links, like in HTML, could > appear deeper inside JSON documents and if we're proposing a > standard way to serialize a link in JSON, it's nice to be able to > support this case as well. i think this really is the main issue here. you're looking for a way to represent links *anywhere* (in JSON). we're just looking at the RFC 8288 model of the link header field, and how to represent that one in JSON. it's not that we're only supporting document-wide links. you can still add fragment identifiers. but yes, our focus is to represent "link documents" (which we call linksets), and not an embeddable schema component. > 3. In linkset, links must always appear in a nested object, because > there is no 'rel' property on a specific link, which makes this at > least more clumsy to use in contexts where you just need to embed a > singular link. true, but that's because we're aligning the JSON model as closely as possible with the RFC 8288 syntax (with a bit of tweaking to make it more JSON-LD friendly). > If linkset is out in the wild, and you don't see a strong enough reason > to make changes, I would still hope this group considers adopting > json-link as well, as I think it's a useful building block for future > standards. There's no reason different serializations can co-exist, and > our goals I think are different. yes, there seems to be a difference in goals. cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | http://dret.net/netdret | | http://twitter.com/dret | From nobody Tue Nov 10 17:03:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443B53A12F0 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:03:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8oZeZijutQ0a for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 423983A12FC for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2020 17:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. 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, X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 16:17:16 -0000 Hi Rich + all, Il giorno gio 12 nov 2020 alle ore 16:56 Salz, Rich ha scritto: > The agenda [...] is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/agenda-109-httpapi-00 Ok! > to what extent (if any) do we want to conduct business on GitHub? > There was a WG that came up with several modes of operation; please see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8874.html > Other valid responses include "all in, like QUIC" or "partial like TLS" All in, like QUIC :) It would be great to prepare a gh-repo like https://github.com/httpwg/wg-materials/ beforehand. I'm willing to help on that if you like! Kind regards, R From nobody Thu Nov 12 09:05:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2BA3A1408 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 09:05:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OLzig3pTyS11 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 09:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11EDB3A1423 for ; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR00MB08453EDCFDFE83B91922A627F0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR00MB0845.namprd00.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6d1c5442-4400-4ba9-33c8-08d889a751c0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Nov 2020 20:44:59.6352 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: x1lKLj9sFviJWV+TqhO5dswakWZg88gMroNzsnZ+25heacyrHHB67xIkTVeVQxnJwCnf28sbQTdNA3CVl8dnSw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR00MB0831 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] draft-wilde-linkset-07 null anchor X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 20:45:04 -0000 --_000_DM6PR00MB08453EDCFDFE83B91922A627F0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In addition to Ian=92s comment, it would be useful to understand why anchor= is a required property. RFC8288 states, =D8 When present, the anchor parameter overrides this with another URI, Why does the JSON serialization make this property required and then have t= o deal with issues around null vs empty string? Darrel From: Ian Griffiths Sent: October 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: httpapi@ietf.org Subject: [httpapi] draft-wilde-linkset-07 null anchor I think I might have found an inconsistency in =93Section 4.2.2. Link Cont= ext Object=94 of draft-wilde-linkset-07. This states that in cases where = =93no value is to be provided for the "anchor" member=94, a link context ob= ject MUST provide an: > "anchor" member with null value ("anchor": ""). The example in parentheses appears to contradict the text that it purports = to illustrate: it shows an empty string, which is not the same thing as a n= ull value in JSON. (This is inside =93Section 4.2 JSON Document=94 so JSON = types and values are relevant here. Moreover, since draft-wilde-linkset-07 = doesn=92t define what it means by null, the obvious interpretation of =93nu= ll=94 in this context is the definition given by the JSON spec.) If a null value is required (as the text states), then the example should b= e "anchor": null, shouldn=92t it? Alternatively, if the example is correct as it stands, then shouldn=92t the= preceding text say =93an empty string value=94 instead of =93null value=94= ? Also, =934.2.3. Link Target Object=94 does the same thing regarding href, = offering ("href": "") as an example of what it calls a =93null value=94. If the intention is that =93null value=94 is just the language being used t= o describe an empty string intended to signify an absent value, it would be= helpful to clarify that, since JSON defines null as a type and also as a d= istinct value. -- Ian Griffiths endjin.com --_000_DM6PR00MB08453EDCFDFE83B91922A627F0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In addition to Ian=92s comment,= it would be useful to understand why anchor is a required property.  = RFC8288 states,

 

<=
span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=D8  When present, the anchor parameter overrides this with another URI,

 

Why does the JSON serialization make this property r= equired and then have to deal with issues around null vs empty string?

 

Darrel

 

From: Ian Griffiths
Sent: October 28, 2020 7:32 AM
To: httpapi@ietf.org
Subject: [httpapi] draft-wilde-linkset-07 null anchor

 

I think I might have found an i= nconsistency in =93Section 4.2.2.  Link Context Object=94 of draft-wil= de-linkset-07. This states that in cases where =93no value is to be provide= d for the "anchor" member=94, a link context object MUST provide an:

 

> "anchor" member = with null value ("anchor": "").

 

The example in parentheses appe= ars to contradict the text that it purports to illustrate: it shows an empt= y string, which is not the same thing as a null value in JSON. (This is ins= ide =93Section 4.2 JSON Document=94 so JSON types and values are relevant here. Moreover, since draft-wilde-linkset-07= doesn=92t define what it means by null, the obvious interpretation of =93n= ull=94 in this context is the definition given by the JSON spec.)

 

If a null value is required (as= the text states), then the example should be "anchor": null, sho= uldn=92t it?

 

Alternatively, if the example i= s correct as it stands, then shouldn=92t the preceding text say =93an empty= string value=94 instead of =93null value=94?

 

 

Also, =934.2.3.  Link Targ= et Object=94 does the same thing regarding href, offering ("href"= : "") as an example of what it calls a =93null value=94.

 

If the intention is that =93nul= l value=94 is just the language being used to describe an empty string inte= nded to signify an absent value, it would be helpful to clarify that, since= JSON defines null as a type and also as a distinct value.

 

--

Ian Griffiths=

endjin.com

 

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boundary="_000_DM6PR00MB084512239A74950A7B08F26AF0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR00MB0845.namprd00.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7adcc2bf-c3ed-4dac-b760-08d889b58906 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Nov 2020 22:26:45.3402 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 7IWvEqjyLHJfz1QyaicLEcigIROiRZZ4AwE05Bn156ooK429TM0bCaOr4Uw3SiJ4+ZpPHLRNYe6OVCvuiQ+qaA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR00MB0651 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] JSON serialization for Web Linking X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:26:54 -0000 --_000_DM6PR00MB084512239A74950A7B08F26AF0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Evert, While I agree it would be great if there were a common way of serializing l= inks across media types, I=92m concerned we are going to head down a path o= f bikeshedding. I remember a lot of debates when HAL chose to use an objec= t to serialize links instead of an array. There were valid arguments for b= oth the array form and the object form. It is a warning sign for me that t= hese two drafts take the opposite approaches. My other concern is it seems like the intent of the draft is to try and sta= ndardize a concept that will then be used by other media types and framewor= ks. Your draft does declare the application/links+json but that seems like = a secondary goal of the spec. While I understand the desire to create stan= dard building blocks for JSON documents, such a mechanism doesn=92t exists = within HTTP. It seems more closely related to efforts like schema.org. Darrel From: Erik Wilde Sent: November 1, 2020 4:25 AM To: Evert Pot; httpapi@ietf.org Subject: Re: [httpapi] JSON serialization for Web Linking hello. On 2020-10-31 23:06, Evert Pot wrote: > 1. The focus is in linkset is on the linkset use-case and media-type. I > think useful to splice out specifically a JSON serialization for > weblinks. that's true. we focus on the header field as defined in RFC 8288, not on how to represent web links *anywhere*. > Even if linkset does define /a/ serialization of Web > links, I think its helpful to have something that's more focused > specifically on solving this problem. indeed, our goal is not to define reusable components (something like a microsyntax) to embed in other schemas. our goal is to define representations for sets of links. > Messaging matters, and the > linkset document does not really talk about this. afaict, it doesn't seem like we're ever creating the assumption that we're providing a representation for web links *everywhere*. we're just defining two representations of link header fields, which are sets of links= . > The fact that it > does define a Web Linking serialization seems more like a > side-effect that a core goal. it's the only goal of the draft, but not in the context you're looking for. we're really not doing much more than taking the model defined in RFC 8288, and defining a JSON representation for it. > 2. linkset only describes document-wide links, which makes this > incompatible with situations where you'd want to describe links that > are not on the top-level of the document. Links, like in HTML, could > appear deeper inside JSON documents and if we're proposing a > standard way to serialize a link in JSON, it's nice to be able to > support this case as well. i think this really is the main issue here. you're looking for a way to represent links *anywhere* (in JSON). we're just looking at the RFC 8288 model of the link header field, and how to represent that one in JSON. it's not that we're only supporting document-wide links. you can still add fragment identifiers. but yes, our focus is to represent "link documents" (which we call linksets), and not an embeddable schema component= . > 3. In linkset, links must always appear in a nested object, because > there is no 'rel' property on a specific link, which makes this at > least more clumsy to use in contexts where you just need to embed a > singular link. true, but that's because we're aligning the JSON model as closely as possible with the RFC 8288 syntax (with a bit of tweaking to make it more JSON-LD friendly). > If linkset is out in the wild, and you don't see a strong enough reason > to make changes, I would still hope this group considers adopting > json-link as well, as I think it's a useful building block for future > standards. There's no reason different serializations can co-exist, and > our goals I think are different. yes, there seems to be a difference in goals. cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A= %2F%2Fdret.net%2Fnetdret&data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com= %7C2e2dc11771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%= 7C0%7C637398195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj= oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DfeZ6JYqYquPZ1ps= TSmQFVgIjf6xt%2FGfK0pX5FZRF5ws%3D&reserved=3D0 | | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A= %2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdret&data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com= %7C2e2dc11771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%= 7C0%7C637398195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj= oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DHlc9DlHdvdRHmlX= RMb48V76dvWtZDMhdZePL8bwkwWU%3D&reserved=3D0 | -- httpapi mailing list httpapi@ietf.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhttpapi&data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40m= icrosoft.com%7C2e2dc11771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd= 011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637398195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj= AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DP9l= 5F3I%2Bm4sbp83%2FR4VL36DyXw5BJpKAlzjgen0S1zM%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_DM6PR00MB084512239A74950A7B08F26AF0E41DM6PR00MB0845namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Evert,

 

While I agree it would be great= if there were a common way of serializing links across media types, I=92m = concerned we are going to head down a path of bikeshedding.  I remembe= r a lot of debates when HAL chose to use an object to serialize links instead of an array.  There were valid argu= ments for both the array form and the object form.  It is a warning si= gn for me that these two drafts take the opposite approaches.

 

My other concern is it seems li= ke the intent of the draft is to try and standardize a concept that will th= en be used by other media types and frameworks. Your draft does declare the= application/links+json but that seems like a secondary goal of the spec.  While I understand the desire to = create standard building blocks for JSON documents, such a mechanism doesn= =92t exists within HTTP.  It seems more closely related to efforts lik= e schema.org. 

 

Darrel

 

From: Erik Wilde
Sent: November 1, 2020 4:25 AM
To: Evert Pot; httpapi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [httpapi] JSON serialization for Web Linking

 

hello.

On 2020-10-31 23:06, Evert Pot wrote:
>  1. The focus is in linkset is on the linkset use-case and media-= type. I
>     think useful to splice out specifically a JSON= serialization for
>     weblinks.

that's true. we focus on the header field as defined in RFC 8288, not on how to represent web links *anywhere*.

>     Even if linkset does define /a/ serialization = of Web
>     links, I think its helpful to have something t= hat's more focused
>     specifically on solving this problem.

indeed, our goal is not to define reusable components (something like a microsyntax) to embed in other schemas. our goal is to define
representations for sets of links.

>     Messaging matters, and the
>     linkset document does not really talk about th= is.

afaict, it doesn't seem like we're ever creating the assumption that
we're providing a representation for web links *everywhere*. we're just defining two representations of link header fields, which are sets of links= .

>     The fact that it
>     does define a Web Linking serialization seems = more like a
>     side-effect that a core goal.

it's the only goal of the draft, but not in the context you're looking
for. we're really not doing much more than taking the model defined in
RFC 8288, and defining a JSON representation for it.

>  2. linkset only describes document-wide links, which makes this<= br> >     incompatible with situations where you'd want = to describe links that
>     are not on the top-level of the document. Link= s, like in HTML, could
>     appear deeper inside JSON documents and if we'= re proposing a
>     standard way to serialize a link in JSON, it's= nice to be able to
>     support this case as well.

i think this really is the main issue here. you're looking for a way to represent links *anywhere* (in JSON). we're just looking at the RFC 8288 model of the link header field, and how to represent that one in JSON.

it's not that we're only supporting document-wide links. you can still
add fragment identifiers. but yes, our focus is to represent "link documents" (which we call linksets), and not an embeddable schema comp= onent.

>  3. In linkset, links must always appear in a nested object, beca= use
>     there is no 'rel' property on a specific link,= which makes this at
>     least more clumsy to use in contexts where you= just need to embed a
>     singular link.

true, but that's because we're aligning the JSON model as closely as
possible with the RFC 8288 syntax (with a bit of tweaking to make it
more JSON-LD friendly).

> If linkset is out in the wild, and you don't see a strong enough reaso= n
> to make changes, I would still hope this group considers adopting
> json-link as well, as I think it's a useful building block for future =
> standards. There's no reason different serializations can co-exist, an= d
> our goals I think are different.

yes, there seems to be a difference in goals.

cheers,

dret.

--
erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.= net |
            | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fdret.net= %2Fnetdret&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com%7C2e2dc11= 771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6373= 98195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi= LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DfeZ6JYqYquPZ1psTSmQFV= gIjf6xt%2FGfK0pX5FZRF5ws%3D&amp;reserved=3D0    |
            | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.= com%2Fdret&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com%7C2e2dc11= 771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6373= 98195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi= LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DHlc9DlHdvdRHmlXRMb48V= 76dvWtZDMhdZePL8bwkwWU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0    |

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https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3= A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhttpapi&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7= CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com%7C2e2dc11771b44d20ac4508d87e481d24%7C72f988b= f86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637398195489389983%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs= b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C10= 00&amp;sdata=3DP9l5F3I%2Bm4sbp83%2FR4VL36DyXw5BJpKAlzjgen0S1zM%3D&a= mp;reserved=3D0

 

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Sun, 15 Nov 2020 17:57:03 -0500 (EST) To: httpapi@ietf.org References: <5a806987-70c7-e7fe-e773-11625d9c51dc@evertpot.com> <3bf0efa9-10f3-30e2-2173-2e7f2140ea89@dret.net> From: Evert Pot Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 17:57:00 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EE7BE01DEF18EC18E54529F0" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] JSON serialization for Web Linking X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:57:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EE7BE01DEF18EC18E54529F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Darrel, On 2020-11-15 5:26 p.m., Darrel Miller wrote: > > Hey Evert, > > While I agree it would be great if there were a common way of > serializing links across media types, I’m concerned we are going to > head down a path of bikeshedding.  I remember a lot of debates when > HAL chose to use an object to serialize links instead of an array.  > There were valid arguments for both the array form and the object > form.  It is a warning sign for me that these two drafts take the > opposite approaches. > I 100% agree, it would be better if the two drafts used the same format. > My other concern is it seems like the intent of the draft is to try > and standardize a concept that will then be used by other media types > and frameworks. Your draft does declare the application/links+json but > that seems like a secondary goal of the spec.  While I understand the > desire to create standard building blocks for JSON documents, such a > mechanism doesn’t exists within HTTP.  It seems more closely related > to efforts like schema.org. > > I think it's definitely fair to say that this draft does not directly tie to HTTP, and more to JSON in a more general way. I thought this could be a good place to submit it here nonetheless. The group is described as "Building Blocks for HTTP APIs", and given that many HTTP APIs are ultimately going to be using JSON, and there's a good chance they would want to encode a link, it feels like the perfect building block. My hope is that afterwards, json-links may be extended to get other formats to rfc status, such as: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-json-home-06 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-link-hint-02 There's so many efforts in this space that will have a need for this. I hope we can look past things like the array/object bike-shedding and get behind something that is generally good enough. If taking out the bits around "application/links+json" and document-level links gives this a higher chance of success, I think this is worth it. Evert --------------EE7BE01DEF18EC18E54529F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Darrel,

On 2020-11-15 5:26 p.m., Darrel Miller wrote:

Hey Evert,

 

While I agree it would be great if there were a common way of serializing links across media types, I’m concerned we are going to head down a path of bikeshedding.  I remember a lot of debates when HAL chose to use an object to serialize links instead of an array.  There were valid arguments for both the array form and the object form.  It is a warning sign for me that these two drafts take the opposite approaches.

I 100% agree, it would be better if the two drafts used the same format.

 

My other concern is it seems like the intent of the draft is to try and standardize a concept that will then be used by other media types and frameworks. Your draft does declare the application/links+json but that seems like a secondary goal of the spec.  While I understand the desire to create standard building blocks for JSON documents, such a mechanism doesn’t exists within HTTP.  It seems more closely related to efforts like schema.org. 


I think it's definitely fair to say that this draft does not directly tie to HTTP, and more to JSON in a more general way. I thought this could be a good place to submit it here nonetheless. The group is described as "Building Blocks for HTTP APIs", and given that many HTTP APIs are ultimately going to be using JSON, and there's a good chance they would want to encode a link, it feels like the perfect building block.

My hope is that afterwards, json-links may be extended to get other formats to rfc status, such as:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-json-home-06
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-link-hint-02

There's so many efforts in this space that will have a need for this. I hope we can look past things like the array/object bike-shedding and get behind something that is generally good enough.

If taking out the bits around "application/links+json" and document-level links gives this a higher chance of success, I think this is worth it.

Evert

--------------EE7BE01DEF18EC18E54529F0-- From nobody Sun Nov 15 15:47:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C503A10FF for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:47:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0aC0WApk6Kg5 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:47:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.gristmillmedia.com (dret.net [209.188.86.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C9B43A10FA for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [108.205.51.24] (port=57798 helo=dretpro.attlocal.net) by postoffice.gristmillmedia.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1keRkC-0003u9-G7; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:47:40 -0500 To: Darrel Miller , Ian Griffiths , "httpapi@ietf.org" , "ewilde@axway.com" References: From: Erik Wilde Message-ID: <40383a01-22a0-2e44-297b-74d6f9c52bf7@dret.net> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:47:37 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - postoffice.gristmillmedia.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dret.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Authenticated-Sender: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] draft-wilde-linkset-07 null anchor X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:47:45 -0000 hello darrel. On 2020-11-15 21:44, Darrel Miller wrote: > In addition to Ian’s comment, it would be useful to understand why > anchor is a required property.  RFC8288 states, > > ØWhen present, the anchor parameter overrides this with another URI, > > Why does the JSON serialization make this property required and then > have to deal with issues around null vs empty string? thanks for this additional comment regarding how anchors are defined in the JSON representation. i added it to https://github.com/dret/I-D/issues/146 linking to you and the archived email. thanks and cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | http://dret.net/netdret | | http://twitter.com/dret | From nobody Tue Nov 17 06:51:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7B03A13CF for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:51:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id amV2nYcYeA2I for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-il1-x12e.google.com (mail-il1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7B73A13BC for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-il1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id z14so3974058ilp.11 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:51:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c2pci0jQnFEliFMsDKRL0SqFvIYzZRVKmnNYzoLJ/tU=; b=jXG8ZlR5brqV7G6/XBbx2RmxMARqb176jrR6ipGHWqkx1zZsn8xjumimhsZpRdqFow Irkd1ghDh0Vpcdzi/Lubai4Kq666rHLkUUHEWUfEflLHrjc2HEXJhl3kHCvubSk1T392 xFE+MDLPyiE/vKY/CnBoW7+10uuxjmT63SFYrdaTKIynvRobRzFGKnpldtLNSuMO8O+n h6tbVosgrF4wsU7AEeZos7M6A5PpdZFtoty1RU+trLov3Y0QwJkTQlIhHTWbXAZQmfKZ c6/vL5rcWoQx12Q1lJS5Hb888hE0Gf+KLp7vB1iQo0Zuu/fs3YAD8FnBhAzMY434yDmJ Nopg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c2pci0jQnFEliFMsDKRL0SqFvIYzZRVKmnNYzoLJ/tU=; b=pElBacjC38gqrq4KGtHrhzUjzH/3rjCiF8HNskwxVcOxXA6wUihJRXjbKrY1NS9eOT hAQKL7volM2KcNTUJSM7uflfdrSEPVNhxTdq0HAbg3YWnIrATsnwtJBBU1QpPlMoQhWh 4YuWJUoGfNC5TP5NB0HFd+d1vMN6uw8Gca+ffjmDm1JzXCf+Uj9xFQkr9oIrxYg9Hhxb IYVxk5VU08S6tualawxmiH2lJ76zLOb/tH3INCWXqn7L2QE44EQUHkH+Jl0XOm4/1FS6 5uiXQApFO9lLGwKIhqdRhlKuJVHU0xuLzMyt3BobwJboRwPcq82M5MB9p9yjwi/VocuS f1Ug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L5gULaHLRKLOa61XZpWGURR4XYyeth2vcej9qdjyTiwylS0xG nQPmUp8vXMhYAfldiBo+8yCsr35xUXDxujI172w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwN94p2pTYNKLsk4mYOXio8rV3U6WfNTawrMCF2yyBB+JHT9s80XtX6/XNQvAtE7X2EbYja7mEJEqq2l4CcLeM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:850f:: with SMTP id f15mr13273245ilh.286.1605624661304; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 06:51:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D1EBA31-B456-429E-BFD9-3D5549B467C8@akamai.com> <17283940-5391-405E-BDEE-E4109E0AA172@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <17283940-5391-405E-BDEE-E4109E0AA172@akamai.com> From: Roberto Polli Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:50:50 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Salz, Rich" Cc: "httpapi@ietf.org" , Erik Wilde Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 14:51:04 -0000 Hi Rich + all, Il giorno gio 12 nov 2020 alle ore 18:04 Salz, Rich ha scritto: > We have ietf-wg-httpapi organization and . it's great to have https://github.com/ietf-wg-httpapi ! > we can create repo's like wg-materials, one per draft, etc., if that's the way the WG wants to go I'd like to ask the other folks if they agree on the use of github: in that case we could create a wg-material repo to store the presentations other than link the I-Ds (today, I struggled during some IETF sessions and having the slides beforehand could have helped). Here's a **mock** agenda file adapted from the httpwg one: slides & co could be uploaded to the repo beforehand so that interested folks can get ready for the meeting. Kind Regards, R From nobody Tue Nov 17 07:30:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F683A1418 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:30:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0PW94-NDIX9m for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd29.google.com (mail-io1-xd29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 103BD3A1415 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd29.google.com with SMTP id s24so21498200ioj.13 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:30:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RNA0moLituZskMGLHc+hE15qgdA3XTiJGQattgtrvjk=; b=d5q61sTuTaMKXoPXntcGrwTBg02CGy9eb4D23oOj8pRDAruce36oxEbFKAARgDhcvm nFjpqnEUpsmuiDsw1N3eTXv9VAjS0CDH6WUKmFzi1S0EhnNPfxkLXvZxojG/JE0Ghjnw GZZ4YfLfdqR62WRHc73Cx5uJxuyvIY0jORqSIG+6LYcndE83d6gxu8b7wz1EXcc62Bm7 sDpdqsBNkRkr3Bfzz2pSkslnUK2/uY2yb9CXeIi6WFCTnA0wZKbakalajGTbOKEYDCEE Mc7m77zhCJBatL37keZWb57Wvk7uk2KKtUy3Yzkx79G+uxdOV4XO5HmmYky6y2VeW7cs ZjoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=RNA0moLituZskMGLHc+hE15qgdA3XTiJGQattgtrvjk=; b=fzXznnm0WikEBSLz37kZZiK8jGJuNReUARVsSBkS8yniXGYFlhSvJOiQBmpeZC6bxy JNrROjLlBeXGvEqobFChm438cH4De1jSvHOsHea60zPJiD/v/ZJTMis2ChNgQzUqpHWs EDQdXz0ClcddSw6wcL8hGIJUcHlPeFokqh1Vvl4tI8gY791eGj8BILp4hsP7fDbJt8kO q6BsGP3/SrcTpNMiYNCE//RBKDBMf7OwshDh2vTfb2ahCHnzGTQkl51B1QFsdUbAE6w5 DZFwPRjWWYzjna88e9/X7s6x02beyGdHvR1vE4K974YeanCY4185zg1Q3P0jVYYkV6rI JxNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uj/6eH/Wr3x1ZGIB9rE74wb+GdcvHU2kqykCquAE7Lr1TsFjW hjoHX1g/W11VtP06gZfu1C1hxIllogLxMY/uqhCacweAYwd/WQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy3MLm7gxRP47PueU1Ha13cTwAuzfBdD+OIjwmfAdzj404eQt6Mc5GItdfxvKcy/+NRb1zSv9xuoxb6Z5MQ8Jc= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7a02:: with SMTP id h2mr11987431iom.171.1605627022507; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D1EBA31-B456-429E-BFD9-3D5549B467C8@akamai.com> <17283940-5391-405E-BDEE-E4109E0AA172@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roberto Polli Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 16:30:11 +0100 Message-ID: To: "httpapi@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:30:25 -0000 I forgot the link :) Il giorno mar 17 nov 2020 alle ore 15:50 Roberto Polli ha scritto: > Here's a **mock** agenda file adapted from the httpwg one: slides & co > could be uploaded > to the repo beforehand so that interested folks can get ready for the meeting. 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boundary="_000_BY5PR00MB0840AA9059B8788406AD58A7F0E29BY5PR00MB0840namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR00MB0840.namprd00.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e4e8f923-f5bc-4744-6fce-08d88b1407cc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2020 16:15:41.8663 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: hF983MnBhyBCEWrluC4W5y1VOUf5Emf+C30WGEAuOKWLQ7Rq7VKx40gPQgMGzNQRuc00l/GsJppYN2gJsaKtHA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR00MB0824 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 16:16:07 -0000 --_000_BY5PR00MB0840AA9059B8788406AD58A7F0E29BY5PR00MB0840namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roberto, I am in favour of using GitHub for working group materials, but discussing= that is one of the first items on the agenda. Does anyone have any object= ions or concerns about pre-emptively putting content on GitHub in advance o= f the meeting with the caveat that the plan may change? Darrel From: Roberto Polli Sent: November 17, 2020 10:31 AM To: httpapi@ietf.org Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 I forgot the link :) Il giorno mar 17 nov 2020 alle ore 15:50 Roberto Polli ha scritto: > Here's a **mock** agenda file adapted from the httpwg one: slides & co > could be uploaded > to the repo beforehand so that interested folks can get ready for the mee= ting. (the mock agenda) https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgist.gi= thub.com%2Fioggstream%2F0bba431c4966f9bada70143675a80475&data=3D04%7C01= %7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com%7Cd4ebeea6a16e4ef550d808d88b0db745%7C72f98= 8bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C637412238771268628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbG= Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C= 3000&sdata=3DIQM8SM6d9L1TBSOZqwFNBQBfbqMzt9XqLRwT7gkoDto%3D&reserve= d=3D0 -- httpapi mailing list httpapi@ietf.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhttpapi&data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40m= icrosoft.com%7Cd4ebeea6a16e4ef550d808d88b0db745%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd= 011db47%7C1%7C1%7C637412238771268628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj= AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DAz0= UEe6tJwrHvnajqr%2BHex7FCDWWHf8fd6qsB830n1k%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_BY5PR00MB0840AA9059B8788406AD58A7F0E29BY5PR00MB0840namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Roberto,

 

I am in favour of using GitHub = for working group materials,  but discussing that is one of the first = items on the agenda.  Does anyone have any objections or concerns abou= t pre-emptively putting content on GitHub in advance of the meeting with the caveat that the plan may change?=

 

Darrel

 

 

From: Roberto Polli
Sent: November 17, 2020 10:31 AM
To: httpapi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 1= 09

 

I forgot the link :)

Il giorno mar 17 nov 2020 alle ore 15:50 Roberto Polli
<robipolli@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> Here's a **mock** agenda file adapted from the httpwg one: slides &= ; co
> could be uploaded
> to the repo beforehand so that interested folks can get ready for the = meeting.

(the mock agenda)

https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.co= m/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgist.github.com%2Fioggstream%2F0bba431c4966f9bada701= 43675a80475&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7CDarrel.Miller%40microsoft.com%7Cd4ebee= a6a16e4ef550d808d88b0db745%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C637= 412238771268628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI= iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DIQM8SM6d9L1TBSOZqwFN= BQBfbqMzt9XqLRwT7gkoDto%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

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httpapi@ietf.org
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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.33) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 17:21:49 -0000 VGhhbmtzIGZvciBzaG93aW5nIGV4YW1wbGVzLg0KDQpXZSdyZSBnb2luZyB0byBmb2xsb3cgSUVU RiBwcmFjdGljZSwgY2hhdCBmb3IgYSBmZXcgbWludXRlcyBpbiBwZXJzb24gYW5kIHRoZW4gY29u ZmlybSBjb25zZW5zdXMgb24gdGhlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdC4gIEJ1dCB0aGVyZSdzIG5vIG5lZWQg dG8gc3RvcCBkaXNjdXNzaW5nIG5vdy4NCg0KDQo= From nobody Tue Nov 17 09:22:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0FEE3A15BA for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 09:21:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.31) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Getting ready for our first meeting at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 17:22:01 -0000 --_000_AB25966579284875A26DDAA90D8F1FB3akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PiBEb2VzIGFueW9uZSBoYXZlIGFueSBvYmplY3Rpb25zIG9yIGNvbmNlcm5zIGFib3V0IHByZS1l bXB0aXZlbHkgcHV0dGluZyBjb250ZW50IG9uIEdpdEh1YiBpbiBhZHZhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSBtZWV0 aW5nIHdpdGggdGhlIGNhdmVhdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBwbGFuIG1heSBjaGFuZ2U/DQoNCg0KSSBkby4N Cg== --_000_AB25966579284875A26DDAA90D8F1FB3akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7AC5F95ABCC2474DAC6FDCFBF973CFB7@akamai.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQovKiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KcC5Nc29Ob3Jt YWwsIGxpLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgZGl2Lk1zb05vcm1hbA0KCXttYXJnaW46MGluOw0KCWZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMS4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFp bFN0eWxlMTgNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtcmVwbHk7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6 IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7DQoJY29sb3I6d2luZG93dGV4dDt9DQouTXNvQ2hwRGVmYXVs dA0KCXttc28tc3R5bGUtdHlwZTpleHBvcnQtb25seTsNCglmb250LXNpemU6MTAuMHB0O30NCkBw YWdlIFdvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtzaXplOjguNWluIDExLjBpbjsNCgltYXJnaW46MS4waW4gMS4w aW4gMS4waW4gMS4waW47fQ0KZGl2LldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMQ0KCXtwYWdlOldvcmRTZWN0aW9uMTt9 DQotLT48L3N0eWxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJvZHkgbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIGxpbms9ImJsdWUiIHZs aW5rPSJwdXJwbGUiIHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJX b3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PGI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQt c2l6ZToxMi4wcHQiPiZndDs8L3NwYW4+PC9iPiBEb2VzIGFueW9uZSBoYXZlIGFueSBvYmplY3Rp b25zIG9yIGNvbmNlcm5zIGFib3V0IHByZS1lbXB0aXZlbHkgcHV0dGluZyBjb250ZW50IG9uIEdp dEh1YiBpbiBhZHZhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSBtZWV0aW5nIHdpdGggdGhlIGNhdmVhdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBw bGFuIG1heSBjaGFuZ2U/PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj4mbmJz cDs8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+ PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+SSBkby48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K PC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_AB25966579284875A26DDAA90D8F1FB3akamaicom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 18 09:02:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197E13A0CBC for ; 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Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:02:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Roberto Polli Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:02:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: "httpapi@ietf.org" Cc: Alex Martinez Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [httpapi] IETF-109. RateLimit headers slides X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:02:44 -0000 Dear all, interested people can have a look at the preliminary slides for the presentation that me and Alex have prepared: - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18RWq_XYfKHf2E5TTCAc5xx9rgdIZgrN0tfB0jmVlnSM/ See this issue for the current implementation landscape, you are welcome to comment: - https://github.com/ioggstream/draft-polli-ratelimit-headers/issues/1 See you soon and have a nice day, Roberto & Alex From nobody Thu Nov 19 20:43:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BFE3A1850 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 20:43:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L7hFf7lQi2Rr for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 20:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 196263A184D for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 20:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0050093.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050093.ppops.net-00190b01. 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Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:43:21 -0500 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.116]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 34tbf3fwy4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:43:21 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:43:20 -0600 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.008; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:43:19 -0600 From: "Salz, Rich" To: "httpapi@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: minute-takers needed Thread-Index: AQHWvveqwqe2rZv7xU6uk8rPCPVgdw== Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:43:18 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.43.20110804 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4 Archived-At: Subject: [httpapi] minute-takers needed X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:43:24 -0000 --_000_A114A2EA522E4AFFA754D9AC496FFFE6akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2UgbmVlZCAoaWRlYWxseSkgdHdvIHBlb3BsZSB0byB0YWtlIG1pbnV0ZXMsIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBj b2RpbWQgd2ViYXBwIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vY29kaW1kLmlldGYub3JnL25vdGVzLWlldGYtMTA5LWh0 dHBhcGk/Ym90aA0KWW91IHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0byBoYXZlIGFuIGFjY291bnQgYXQgZGF0YXRyYWNr ZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcgIChhbnlvbmUgdXNpbmcgbWVldGVjaG8gdG8gcGFydGljaXBhdGUgc2hvdWxk IGhhdmUgb25lLCBhcyBzaG91bGQgYW55b25lIHdobyByZWdpc3RlcmVkIGZvciB0aGUgSUVURiAx MDkgbWVldGluZykuDQoNCkl04oCZcyBub3QgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIHJlY29yZCBhIHRyYW5zY3Jp cHQg4oCTIHRoZSBtZWV0aW5nIGlzIGJlaW5nIHJlY29yZGVkIGFuZCB3aWxsIGJlIHBvc3RlZCB0 byB5b3V0dWJlIGEgZmV3IGhvdXJzIGFmdGVyIGl0IGVuZHMg4oCTIGJ1dCBzaG91bGQgY2FwdHVy ZSBhY3Rpb25zIGFuZCBkZWNpc2lvbiBhdCBhIG1pbmltdW0uICBQbGVhc2UgcmVwbHkgaGVyZS4N Cg== --_000_A114A2EA522E4AFFA754D9AC496FFFE6akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/html; 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X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 06:07:06 -0000 --_000_1AD44AAE21BA4B7A81FC9E885E28A4D8akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 dG54DQo= --_000_1AD44AAE21BA4B7A81FC9E885E28A4D8akamaicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWwgeG1sbnM6bz0idXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4 bWxuczp3PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOm9mZmljZTp3b3JkIiB4bWxuczptPSJo dHRwOi8vc2NoZW1hcy5taWNyb3NvZnQuY29tL29mZmljZS8yMDA0LzEyL29tbWwiIHhtbG5zPSJo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnczLm9yZy9UUi9SRUMtaHRtbDQwIj4NCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVp dj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPg0KPG1l dGEgbmFtZT0iR2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxNSAoZmlsdGVyZWQg bWVkaXVtKSI+DQo8c3R5bGU+PCEtLQ0KLyogRm9udCBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KQGZvbnQtZmFj ZQ0KCXtmb250LWZhbWlseToiQ2FtYnJpYSBNYXRoIjsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToyIDQgNSAzIDUgNCA2 IDMgMiA0O30NCkBmb250LWZhY2UNCgl7Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6Q2FsaWJyaTsNCglwYW5vc2UtMToy IDE1IDUgMiAyIDIgNCAzIDIgNDt9DQovKiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KcC5Nc29Ob3Jt YWwsIGxpLk1zb05vcm1hbCwgZGl2Lk1zb05vcm1hbA0KCXttYXJnaW46MGluOw0KCWZvbnQtc2l6 ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0Kc3Bhbi5FbWFp bFN0eWxlMTcNCgl7bXNvLXN0eWxlLXR5cGU6cGVyc29uYWwtY29tcG9zZTsNCglmb250LWZhbWls eToiQ2FsaWJyaSIsc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsNCgljb2xvcjp3aW5kb3d0ZXh0O30NCi5Nc29DaHBEZWZh dWx0DQoJe21zby1zdHlsZS10eXBlOmV4cG9ydC1vbmx5Ow0KCWZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMi4wcHQ7DQoJ Zm9udC1mYW1pbHk6IkNhbGlicmkiLHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7fQ0KQHBhZ2UgV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJ e3NpemU6OC41aW4gMTEuMGluOw0KCW1hcmdpbjoxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbiAxLjBpbjt9DQpk aXYuV29yZFNlY3Rpb24xDQoJe3BhZ2U6V29yZFNlY3Rpb24xO30NCi0tPjwvc3R5bGU+DQo8L2hl YWQ+DQo8Ym9keSBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyIgbGluaz0iIzA1NjNDMSIgdmxpbms9IiM5NTRGNzIiIHN0 eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6YnJlYWstd29yZCI+DQo8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJXb3JkU2VjdGlvbjEiPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMS4wcHQiPnRueDxv OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_1AD44AAE21BA4B7A81FC9E885E28A4D8akamaicom_-- From nobody Fri Nov 20 01:50:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFDC3A0C1E for ; 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Fri, 20 Nov 2020 01:50:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Roberto Polli Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 10:49:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: "httpapi@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [httpapi] RateLimit Fields: Q&A after IETF109 X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 09:50:03 -0000 Hi @all, I summarized here today's QA after the meeting. - https://github.com/ioggstream/draft-polli-ratelimit-headers/issues/88 HTH, R. 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From nobody Wed Nov 25 16:27:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71CA63A0B37 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:27:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=kCRqXsQq; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=YJhysdLO Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dgLxbiZa_6tN for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:27:19 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uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephfgtgfgguffkfffvofesthhqmhdthhdtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhkucfp ohhtthhinhhghhgrmhcuoehmnhhothesmhhnohhtrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpeejheegfedvfeeifeegffekiefhkeduvdegudevuefgjeehffejvedvffekvdekveen ucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpdhmnhhothdrnhgvthenucfkphepuddule drudejrdduheekrddvhedunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehm rghilhhfrhhomhepmhhnohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.7.30] (119-17-158-251.77119e.mel.static.aussiebb.net [119.17.158.251]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4C07D3064AAA; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 19:27:14 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Nottingham Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.20.0.2.21\)) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 11:27:10 +1100 Cc: Darrel Miller , "Salz, Rich" To: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.20.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: [httpapi] Meeting minutes X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 00:27:20 -0000 I've put the cleaned-up minutes at: = https://github.com/ietf-wg-httpapi/wg-materials/blob/main/ietf109/minutes.= md If you have any corrections or additions, please send them (e-mail or = pull request) soon. Cheers, -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:30:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B543A11FA for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v093Qnfeqd5B for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22D063A11F5 for ; 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Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:30:29 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0AQER4HN002609; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 09:30:28 -0500 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.115]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 34xy4338fg-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 26 Nov 2020 09:30:28 -0500 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:30:27 -0600 Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.008; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:30:27 -0600 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Mark Nottingham , "httpapi@ietf.org" CC: Darrel Miller Thread-Topic: Meeting minutes Thread-Index: AQHWw4rmvyPZs9Hfb0GQTTBBCE6WTqnaisaA Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:30:27 +0000 Message-ID: <69B0D865-BE76-4244-887C-E3B539CB8B96@akamai.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.43.20110804 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Meeting minutes X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 14:30:31 -0000 VXBsb2FkZWQgdG8gZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuICBUaGFua3MgQnJvbiwgYW5kIE1hcmsuDQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Nov 30 17:27:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020573A12CD for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GgTrgeJXm7qz for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.gristmillmedia.com (dret.net [209.188.86.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C0F33A1067 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [108.205.51.24] (port=59867 helo=dretpro.attlocal.net) by postoffice.gristmillmedia.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kjuRo-0004PB-L9; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 20:27:16 -0500 To: httpapi@ietf.org, Darrel Miller , "Salz, Rich" Cc: Sanjay Dalal , =?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Cedik?= , Herbert Van de Sompel , Mark Nottingham References: From: Erik Wilde Message-ID: <381976c6-7dd2-f8ea-bf24-f6e61eb5b774@dret.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:27:13 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - postoffice.gristmillmedia.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dret.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Authenticated-Sender: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Meeting minutes X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 01:27:21 -0000 hello. On 2020-11-25 16:27, Mark Nottingham wrote: > I've put the cleaned-up minutes at: > https://github.com/ietf-wg-httpapi/wg-materials/blob/main/ietf109/minutes.md > If you have any corrections or additions, please send them (e-mail or pull request) soon. thanks for taking the notes, mark. i have a question about the process. from the notes (and the discussion) it seems that "a call for adoption" is going to be issued for all presented drafts. i would be interested to move forward with this process, but i am not sure how it works. should i write emails to the list (ideally separately for the separate drafts i presented, i assume), or is somebody else going to do that? if the latter, can i help with anything so that these calls get sent better sooner than later? thanks a lot and cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | http://dret.net/netdret | | http://twitter.com/dret | From nobody Mon Nov 30 17:37:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E0D3A12FA for ; 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spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.34) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [httpapi] Meeting minutes X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 01:37:52 -0000 VGhlIGZvcm1hbCBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgd29ya2Zsb3cgaXMgYXQgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu cmZjLWVkaXRvci5vcmcvaW5mby9yZmMyMDI2DQoNCkEgY2FsbCBmb3IgYWRvcHRpb24gbWVhbnMg dGhhdCB0aGUgV0cgbWVtYmVycyB3YW50IHRvIHdvcmsgb24gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50LiBOZXcgZHJh ZnRzIGFyZSBvZnRlbiBwcmVzZW50ZWQgYXQgdGhlIElFVEYgbWVldGluZ3MgKGxpa2Ugd2UganVz dCBoYWQpLCBhbmQgdGhlbiB3ZSBwb2xsIHRoZSByb29tIHRvIHNlZSBpZiB0aGVyZSdzIGludGVy ZXN0LiBUaGUgb2ZmaWNpYWwgcHJvY2VzcyBpcyB0aGF0IGV2ZXJ5b25lIGRvbmUgdmlydHVhbCBv ciBhdCBGMkYgbWVldGluZ3MgbXVzdCBiZSBjb25maXJtZWQgb24gdGhlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdC4g IFBlciB0aGUgbWludXRlczoNCglSYXRlIExpbWl0IEhlYWRlcnMgd2lsbCBiZSBjb25maXJtZWQg b24gdGhlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KCURlcHJlY2F0aW9uIGhlYWRlciB3aWxsIGJlIGNvbmZpcm1l ZCBvbiB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQoJTGlua3NldCBoYXMgY29uY2VybnMgYWJvdXQgZHVwbGlj YXRpb24gb2YgZWZmb3J0cywgYnV0IHdlJ2xsIGRpc2N1c3MgYWRvcHRpb24gb24gdGhlIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdA0KCUNvbnRlbnQtV2FybmluZyBkb2Vzbid0IHNlZW0gcmVhZHkgZm9yIGFkb3B0aW9u IHF1aXRlIHlldA0KDQoqQW55IGRyYWZ0IGNhbiBiZSBkaXNjdXNzZWQgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QsIGVz cGVjaWFsbHkgZm9yIHB1cnBvc2VzIG9mIGdldHRpbmcgZW50aHVzaWFzbSwgY29tbWVudHMsIGV0 Yy4qDQoNCk9uY2UgYSBkcmFmdCBpcyBhZG9wdGVkLCBjb3B5cmlnaHQgaXMgbm93IG93bmVkIGJ5 IHRoZSBJRVRGIHRydXN0LiBXRyBjaGFpcnMgaGF2ZSB0aGUgcG93ZXIgdG8gYXBwb2ludCBkb2N1 bWVudCBhdXRob3JzLiAgT3JpZ2luYWwgYXV0aG9ycyBhcmUgdXN1YWxseSBjaG9zZW4sIGFsdGhv dWdoIG90aGVycyBtYXkgYmUgYWRkZWQgb3Igc2hpZnQgYXMgdGltZSBwYXNzZXMuDQoNCldlJ3Jl IHdhaXRpbmcgYSBiaXQgZm9yIHRoZSBHaXRIdWIgY29uZmlnIHRvIGJlICdkb25lJyAoaXQncyBj bG9zZSwgaWYgbm90IGFscmVhZHkgdGhlcmUpLiBPdXIgcGxhbiB3aWxsIGJlIHRvIGNyZWF0ZSBh IHJlcG9zaXRvcnkgaW4gaHR0cHM6Ly9naXRodWIuY29tL2lldGYtd2ctaHR0cGFwaSwgb25lIHJl cG8gcGVyIGRvY3VtZW50LiAgVGhlIHJlcG8gYW5kIGRvY3VtZW50IG5hbWVzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBs aWtlIGlldGYtaHR0cGFwaS1YWFhYLCBsaWtlIGlldGYtaHR0cGFwaS1yYXRlbGltaXQtaGVhZGVy cywgZXRjLg0KDQpIb3BlIHRoaXMgaGVscHMuDQoJL3IkDQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Nov 30 18:21:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: httpapi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B72F3A05AA for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:21:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PZulTdB_Y3hK for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from postoffice.gristmillmedia.com (dret.net [209.188.86.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A464D3A0596 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [108.205.51.24] (port=64325 helo=dretpro.attlocal.net) by postoffice.gristmillmedia.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kjvIP-0008Hb-Pb; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 21:21:38 -0500 To: "httpapi@ietf.org" Cc: Herbert Van de Sompel References: <381976c6-7dd2-f8ea-bf24-f6e61eb5b774@dret.net> <0B773221-0D95-4BA9-8200-B46FB73DA31A@akamai.com> From: Erik Wilde Message-ID: <98b1fcf6-afa6-8640-c0ce-95d4370323a0@dret.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:21:35 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0B773221-0D95-4BA9-8200-B46FB73DA31A@akamai.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - postoffice.gristmillmedia.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dret.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: authenticated_id: birdhouse@dret.net X-Authenticated-Sender: postoffice.gristmillmedia.com: birdhouse@dret.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [httpapi] linkset draft and CoRE X-BeenThere: httpapi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Building Blocks for HTTP APIs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 02:21:41 -0000 hello all. looking at @mnot's notes i realize that i still owe a response to alexey melnikov, who was asking about the CoRE link format as defined by https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690#section-2 we did look into it when this was brought up a while ago, and here's a comment by my co-author made when this issue was brought up: https://github.com/dret/I-D/issues/120#issuecomment-516785695 the short version is: CoRE links have a different serialization than the header field, and CoRE adds additional parameters into the mix. i hope this explains the differences that i did not recall when this was brought up during my presentation at the IETF 109 meeting. thanks a lot and cheers, dret. -- erik wilde | mailto:erik.wilde@dret.net | | http://dret.net/netdret | | http://twitter.com/dret |