From nobody Mon Jan 5 13:12:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B3E1A8A6A for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:12:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p2wlzlzaomBx for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE3C1A8A69 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4B2B0C21E; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 16:12:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 16:12:36 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Lizhenbin Message-ID: <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/-Wyx4GV1CoX2FUOv1Q6PR7D2LbM Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:12:38 -0000 Robin, On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 07:18:14PM +0000, Lizhenbin wrote: > Now multicast is an important service in the network such as IPTV, etc. > But there are complex choice for multicast solutions including L2 > multicast vs. L3 multicast, public multicast vs. multicast VPN, multicast > based on PIM/BGP/mLDP/P2MP TE/IGP/Ingress replication which make the > multicast provision difficult. This may be simplified through the I2RS > intefaces. Could we define the multicast usecase in I2RS WG? And how will > we define the multicast usecase: enhancing the > draft-ietf-i2rs-usecase-reqs-summary-00 to incorporate multicast use cases > or proposing independent multicast use case draft? Multicast is currently not in charter and our AD has given strong guidance that we need to finish existing work before we pick up anything new. That said, nothing stops you or others from creating an individual submission to discuss this work. It may be some time before such a submission could be adopted by the group though. Speaking as an individual contributor, multicast provides a significant number of interesting problems that all must be solved in order to provide an I2RS-like interface. For example, these might include: - Interaction with interface/port yang modules. - Definition of OIF-lists in YANG. - Prefix filters (already a coordination issue IETF-wide) for managing traffic filtering. - Interaction with underlying layer 2 technologies for that layer multicast. (And the requisite yang that would have to describe layer 2.) - Interactions with MPLS technologies, most of which are still very new in YANG or work has yet to even begin. While I believe such work is tractable, it is *quite* a bit of work. It does have the interesting property that such work may drive requirements for several other technologies. If you feel up to that particular challege this early in IETF Yang work, I look forward to seeing your drafts. -- Jeff From nobody Mon Jan 5 19:04:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54BE1A038F for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 19:04:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.654 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.654 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1lQprhDmSv8D for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 19:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51CA21A90E7 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2015 19:04:13 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.112.195.202; From: "Susan Hares" To: References: <1487321587.64919.1420510801984.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc115.webex.com> In-Reply-To: <1487321587.64919.1420510801984.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc115.webex.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 22:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: <007301d0295d$6bc6ea80$4354bf80$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0074_01D02933.82F74B20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHA9KDlphqtNlJWJt9SAxARB57q4pzQxZMg Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/a-esY-Dq6c4l-bxaBWdDsFebSOw Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , i2rs-chairs@tools.ietf.org, 'Alia Atlas' Subject: [i2rs] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: I2RS Interim Jan 8th X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 03:04:17 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01D02933.82F74B20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0075_01D02933.82F74B20" ------=_NextPart_001_0075_01D02933.82F74B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The I2RS WG will hold an Interim on January 8th, 2014 at 10:00am = =E2=80=93 11:30 am.=20 =20 The following is the tentative agenda =20 1) Status and Design team information [5 minutes] =E2=80=93 Sue = Hares=20 2) Security Directorate feedback on I2RS problem statement and = architecture [10 minutes] =E2=80=93 Sue Hares=20 3) Discussion on Security feedback [15 minutes] =20 4) Traceability as an addition to the architecture [15 minutes] = =E2=80=93 Joe Clarke 5) Protocol discussion [30 minutes] =20 6) Status update on RIB Info draft and Yang model [15 minutes] =20 =20 Sue Hares=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I2RS Interim Jan 8th=20 Thursday, January 8, 2015=20 10:00 am -11:00am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) | 2 = hr =20 Webex:=20 https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc8f9e812ff0dad1c580b3ae2d0edab9= 4 =20 =20 =20 = Join WebEx meeting=20 =20 Meeting number:=20 647 163 325=20 Meeting password: jeffprotofun =20 =20 =20 Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 163 325 Toll-free calling = restrictions =20 =20 =20 = Add this meeting to your calendar. =20 =20 =20 Can't join the meeting? Contact = support.=20 =20 =20 =20 IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0075_01D02933.82F74B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

The I2RS WG will hold an Interim on January 8th, 2014 at = 10:00am =E2=80=93 11:30 am.

 

The following is the tentative agenda

 

1)      = Status and Design team information =C2=A0[5 minutes] =E2=80=93 Sue = Hares

2)      = Security Directorate feedback on I2RS problem statement and = architecture [10 minutes] =E2=80=93 Sue Hares

3)      = Discussion on Security feedback =C2=A0[15 minutes] = =C2=A0=C2=A0

4)      = Traceability as an addition to the architecture =C2=A0[15 minutes] = =E2=80=93 Joe Clarke

5)      = Protocol discussion =C2=A0[30 minutes] =C2=A0

6)      = Status update on RIB Info draft and Yang model [15 = minutes]

 

 

Sue Hares

 

 

 

 

I2RS Interim = Jan 8th =

Thursday, January 8, 2015

10:00 am -11:00am |  Eastern Standard Time (New York, = GMT-05:00)  |  2 hr

 

Webex:

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc8f9e812ff0dad1c580b3ae2d0ed= ab94

 

 

 

Join = WebEx meeting =

 

Meeting number:

647 163 325

Meeting password:

jeffprotofun

 

 

 

Join by = phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)

Access code: 647 163 325

Toll-free = calling = restrictions

 

 

 

Add this = meeting to your = calendar.

 

 

 

Can't join the meeting? Contact support. =

 

 

 

= IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session.

 

------=_NextPart_001_0075_01D02933.82F74B20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01D02933.82F74B20 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="WebEx_Meeting.ics" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="WebEx_Meeting.ics" BEGIN:VCALENDAR=0A= PRODID:-//Microsoft Corporation//Outlook 10.0 MIMEDIR//EN=0A= VERSION:2.0=0A= METHOD:REQUEST=0A= BEGIN:VTIMEZONE=0A= TZID:Eastern Time=0A= BEGIN:STANDARD=0A= DTSTART:20131101T020000=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;INTERVAL=3D1;BYDAY=3D1SU;BYMONTH=3D11=0A= TZOFFSETFROM:-0400=0A= TZOFFSETTO:-0500=0A= TZNAME:Standard Time=0A= END:STANDARD=0A= BEGIN:DAYLIGHT=0A= DTSTART:20130301T020000=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;INTERVAL=3D1;BYDAY=3D2SU;BYMONTH=3D3=0A= TZOFFSETFROM:-0500=0A= TZOFFSETTO:-0400=0A= TZNAME:Daylight Savings Time=0A= END:DAYLIGHT=0A= END:VTIMEZONE=0A= BEGIN:VEVENT=0A= ATTENDEE;CN=3D"";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO:shares@ndzh.co= m=0A= ORGANIZER;CN=3D"I2RS Working Group":MAILTO:i2rs-chairs@tools.ietf.org=0A= DTSTART;TZID=3D"Eastern Time":20150108T093000=0A= DTEND;TZID=3D"Eastern Time":20150108T113000=0A= LOCATION:https://ietf.webex.com/ietf=0A= TRANSP:OPAQUE=0A= SEQUENCE:1=0A= UID:WEBEX-MEETING CENTER-6.0456680-317314147-SU=3Dietf=0A= DTSTAMP:20150108T143000Z=0A= DESCRIPTION:\n\n\nJOIN WEBEX = MEETING\nhttps://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc8f9e812ff0dad1c580b3a= e2d0edab94\nMeeting number: 647 163 325\nMeeting password: = jeffprotofun\n\n\nJOIN BY PHONE\n1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada) \n1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)\nAccess = code: 647 163 325\n\nToll-free dialing restrictions: = \nhttp://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf\n\n\n\nCan't join = the meeting? Contact support = here:\nhttps://ietf.webex.com/ietf/mc\n\n\nIMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note = that this WebEx service allows audio and other information sent during = the session to be recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. = By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. = If you do not consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the = host or do not join the session.\n=0A= X-ALT-DESC;FMTTYPE=3Dtext/html:  
Join WebEx = meeting =
Meeting number: 647 163 = 325
Meeting = password:jeffprotofun
 
 
Join by = phone 
1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free = number (US/Canada) 
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada) 
Access code: 647 163 325 
Toll-free calling = restrictions  


 
Can't join the = meeting? Contact support. =  
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service = allows audio and other information sent during the session to be = recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this = session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not = consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not = join the session.=0A= SUMMARY:I2RS Interim Jan 8th=0A= PRIORITY:5=0A= CLASS:PUBLIC=0A= BEGIN:VALARM=0A= TRIGGER:-PT5M=0A= ACTION:DISPLAY=0A= DESCRIPTION:Reminder=0A= END:VALARM=0A= END:VEVENT=0A= END:VCALENDAR=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01D02933.82F74B20-- From nobody Tue Jan 6 09:40:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5636A1A1A5A for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:40:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jT6ubcQ2M-P for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E0A1A1A55 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A9F22C178; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:40:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:40:31 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: i2rs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150106174031.GH7224@pfrc> References: <1487321587.64919.1420510801984.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc115.webex.com> <007301d0295d$6bc6ea80$4354bf80$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007301d0295d$6bc6ea80$4354bf80$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/uM-7QqzcSD4sjXnZ0Wu9HSmWHhc Subject: Re: [i2rs] FW: WebEx meeting invitation: I2RS Interim Jan 8th X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 17:40:33 -0000 On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 10:03:58PM -0500, Susan Hares wrote: > The I2RS WG will hold an Interim on January 8th, 2014 at 10:00am ??? 11:30 am. Just a note on the .ics invite associate with the meeting: It starts at 9:30, but the interim starts at 10. This is to give presenters time to join the meeting and test both their microphone and any remote presentation abilities they may require. -- Jeff From nobody Tue Jan 6 09:49:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897171A1A66 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:49:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vc0ILRe3fokX for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x233.google.com (mail-lb0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F42251A1A31 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id z11so19710211lbi.10 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 09:49:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=VWw2DWDTERN3VlgNxONqtmxG3FJzpVC/+evnRna6qmM=; b=ncLB6pV5aHAIjimlsaJtxvvwhoIq8oFYybXQYlk55+1KjTZPKNbBhOsQLhh7iQWuR9 YAWoHiLZekyjEZbV8NzLse0o0VfaI8LcxA7GM2GEEcvodcY3HDwjVcSb6XLZNq2jOtDS G7TulexLh4pFYMU1LPJBtGAl+DrYuGMFkUddhHosFIwGGPZf/p85gchxG4pBbxnm7M+n 1yllGN1NTDwXI9UCs8vexmij0bFy4wehVCRQXwtUi2a/qRQWYCQAHy0r2likSsoIZERZ nTEWQUH9k+DxjjYqCDS9xl+ogp6ZWCpzKh4IMD0I2CW7laNk26XlfIsEikWgBefGO85T WJ+w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.29.193 with SMTP id m1mr101505197lah.84.1420566558497; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 09:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.63.51 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 09:49:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:49:18 -0600 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Jeffrey Haas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/OCZ-fcDUOaqnBMT92K_LrAV7mlo Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , Lizhenbin Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 17:49:22 -0000 Hi Jeff, On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > Robin, > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 07:18:14PM +0000, Lizhenbin wrote: >> Now multicast is an important service in the network such as IPTV, etc. >> But there are complex choice for multicast solutions including L2 >> multicast vs. L3 multicast, public multicast vs. multicast VPN, multicast >> based on PIM/BGP/mLDP/P2MP TE/IGP/Ingress replication which make the >> multicast provision difficult. This may be simplified through the I2RS >> intefaces. Could we define the multicast usecase in I2RS WG? And how will >> we define the multicast usecase: enhancing the >> draft-ietf-i2rs-usecase-reqs-summary-00 to incorporate multicast use cases >> or proposing independent multicast use case draft? > > Multicast is currently not in charter and our AD has given strong guidance > that we need to finish existing work before we pick up anything new. That > said, nothing stops you or others from creating an individual submission to > discuss this work. It may be some time before such a submission could be > adopted by the group though. > > Speaking as an individual contributor, multicast provides a significant > number of interesting problems that all must be solved in order to provide > an I2RS-like interface. For example, these might include: > - Interaction with interface/port yang modules. > - Definition of OIF-lists in YANG. > - Prefix filters (already a coordination issue IETF-wide) for managing > traffic filtering. > - Interaction with underlying layer 2 technologies for that layer multicast. > (And the requisite yang that would have to describe layer 2.) > - Interactions with MPLS technologies, most of which are still very new in > YANG or work has yet to even begin. > > While I believe such work is tractable, it is *quite* a bit of work. It > does have the interesting property that such work may drive requirements for > several other technologies. > > If you feel up to that particular challege this early in IETF Yang work, I > look forward to seeing your drafts. I have no issue on this decision. You mentioned YANG three times above, that's where I have a question. I checked i2rs charter, it does not even mention YANG. My question is why YANG models became so essential, is it because they will be the way i2rs solution is developed? How could this be a solution by rewriting the protocol, e.g. bgp procedures in YANG format? A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? I'll appreciate if you could shed some light into this. Regards, Behcet > > -- Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs From nobody Tue Jan 6 10:03:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8F81A1ADB for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:03:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K5OT7mokvSwk for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995091A1ABF for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 49E0FC178; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:03:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:03:28 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: sarikaya@ieee.org Message-ID: <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/4Nh83fQWR8QpdTFtNjjUZax91j8 Cc: Jeffrey Haas , "i2rs@ietf.org" , Lizhenbin Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 18:03:30 -0000 Behcet, On Tue, Jan 06, 2015 at 11:49:18AM -0600, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > You mentioned YANG three times above, that's where I have a question. > I checked i2rs charter, it does not even mention YANG. We're remiss in getting our charter updated, and I believe Sue and I will be discussing that this afternoon. There had been a decision middle of last year that we would be pursuing yang as our modeling language and netconf/restconf as our protocol. Recent analysis of the suitability of netconf for our use cases has shown it's not the best fit and we appear to be moving to restconf. > How could this be a solution by rewriting the protocol, e.g. bgp > procedures in YANG format? We wouldn't rewrite BGP into yang. We'd write yang modules for managing I2RS behaviors for BGP. In some cases, these may involve extending the yang modules for BGP that are maintained by other groups such as IDR. > A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) -- Jeff From nobody Tue Jan 6 10:47:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9B01A1B1B for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:47:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PaRrw5gI7Mfv for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0041A1B37 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 10:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t06IlYXd005791 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:47:34 -0500 Message-ID: <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:47:34 -0500 From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: i2rs@ietf.org References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> In-Reply-To: <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2015-01-06 13:47:34 EST Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/AXOFUp4IHGCRp5Xyb37zH4dFhWM Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 18:47:38 -0000 On 06/01/2015 1:03 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? > I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on > ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) I don't think this comment is confused at all. It is clear to me that the present approach to IETF last call at the IESG level (i.e., all the Area Directors reading the document) is not going to be particularly effective when the I-D consists of 1000 lines of Yang code. This is quite independent of the number of RTG area directors... I believe that the WG chairs who are involved in Yang models at any level need to signal this issue to their Area Director(s), if this has not already been done. Bill -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From nobody Tue Jan 6 11:02:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF511A1B1B for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:02:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X-3dbxcpl20x for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x235.google.com (mail-yk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC28C1A01FA for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 142so11482259ykq.40 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:02:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DD86F+D8+7AyUvv88eYoJhHEtorKMapuyAET3vmZ6ho=; b=IgYE8C+w4w3M1YX74ZuqdTioLxzJSv+p2jx9JlzUnLgay0LaT5XjTe+6P15G85uICs 39wP2De9OlvgHnxo2oeujt2iXkixEvbuLNbQq57Led8aF3Gpb5gK9BvFR+Cuwnjaq4GT 32ul8W6s6XA9sDAjBXkr4hKUQk7rlHOj97lAvdCiC7sdvbgczS1++MGgnW/bplx4TaTx sqty0T/m1FDyXGI1Vo8cT7LBw+TwGAOw+zU9g4QCDyVxC/hWC97VW3GfoH17xCCMJ0f/ 5dlf0EdT14/YbttXVnNfJ5GgOXR0QBkQsMJ6KhVAMdMzf0EvOCxeNPd8PQ/wKtg4I54k CSLw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.119.7 with SMTP id l7mr39930795ykb.51.1420570947833; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:02:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:02:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: William Atwood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1137a79eb9568c050c00726a Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/gNm6lp_KN6ggyNM4uuTEGxN0fA4 Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:02:39 -0000 --001a1137a79eb9568c050c00726a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Bill, On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, William Atwood wrote: > > > On 06/01/2015 1:03 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG > program? > > I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on > > ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) > > I don't think this comment is confused at all. It is clear to me that > the present approach to IETF last call at the IESG level (i.e., all the > Area Directors reading the document) is not going to be particularly > effective when the I-D consists of 1000 lines of Yang code. This is > quite independent of the number of RTG area directors... > > I believe that the WG chairs who are involved in Yang models at any > level need to signal this issue to their Area Director(s), if this has > not already been done. > Do you have recommendations on how the reviews should be done? Obviously, verifying that the YANG models compile and having the WG and YANG experts do a review is quite useful and important beforehand. The trick with this is frequently getting the semantics and details right; obviously, we're all used to doing long code reviews too. Regards, Alia > Bill > > -- > Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 > Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 > Department of Computer Science > and Software Engineering > Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill > Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > --001a1137a79eb9568c050c00726a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi B= ill,

O= n Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, William Atwood <william.atwood@co= ncordia.ca> wrote:


On 06/01/2015 1:03 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
>> A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line= YANG program?
> I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion o= n
> ietf@ietf.org regarding a third R= TG area director. :-)

I don't think this comment is confused at all.=C2=A0 It is clear= to me that
the present approach to IETF last call at the IESG level (i.e., all the
Area Directors reading the document) is not going to be particularly
effective when the I-D consists of 1000 lines of Yang code.=C2=A0 This is quite independent of the number of RTG area directors...

I believe that the WG chairs who are involved in Yang models at any
level need to signal this issue to their Area Director(s), if this has
not already been done.

Do you have reco= mmendations on how the reviews should be done?=C2=A0 Obviously,
v= erifying that the YANG models compile and having the WG and YANG experts
do a review is quite useful and important beforehand. =C2=A0 The tr= ick with this is=C2=A0
frequently getting the semantics and detai= ls right; obviously, we're all used to
doing long code review= s too.

Regards,
Alia=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Bill

--
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tel:= =C2=A0 =C2=A0+1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus=C2=A0 fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West=C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8

_______________________________________________
i2rs mailing list
i2rs@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs

--001a1137a79eb9568c050c00726a-- From nobody Tue Jan 6 11:44:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0FA1A1B57 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:44:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M1bkw6-HN4AP for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78C971A1B34 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CA9753 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:29 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id HvUccakufEQF for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCC72002C for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:29 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id espS7sOZX1c3; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2236520017; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CD42930508ED; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 20:44:29 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "i2rs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20150106194429.GC11335@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "i2rs@ietf.org" References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/hnIcRqh6ziaTErAOk9KFqJcwi2I Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:44:33 -0000 On Tue, Jan 06, 2015 at 01:03:28PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > > > A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? > > I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on > ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) > Big data models have happened in the past: $ wc -l RMON-MIB RMON2-MIB 3952 RMON-MIB 6019 RMON2-MIB Even in routing: $ wc -l BGP4-MIB OSPFV3-MIB 1298 BGP4-MIB 4241 OSPFV3-MIB In addition, things do not have to be monolithic. That said, it is a good idea to try to keep it simple, stupid. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jan 6 11:49:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46D61A1AA8 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:49:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t9JGYdSIUBBJ for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x22b.google.com (mail-lb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF33C1A0171 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id w7so20260345lbi.30 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:49:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=eMCGlixO3qrPmPCZbQyIA4HWsomsTkOGpsw6tgZMTNE=; b=JlJnHpQiIHNpN7F1ufXjXIzH0jp6rBa+/mf2RI1xLpiSXtAclc2yMHLmYxTOPiu7uI iyBzkzWeYUR0/oZaluq67cmW5qpp/LjXzCIp9YwYeX+e5QOe42LyTvf7vcTd9O5pBp5/ 8lQBIo+t7jm4BSUsWRZknrnCQLQ9kX39oXxwQ5SwpjUrdonCJqkD0nMVoWutnH4/ckUK 4IwZZ4CGFdTCyBoUM+G1Bv75aOeSIfloTUCuBg6BCMSztu9PcAmpz4uxtDXaNnzq+6Vs dKiV2BIgKh17twnMCOTenQBOH/myKYhpDrRP1bEJvW3w+qnV1mnyeMJdXMRsF7UcUhNC Nfig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.18.135 with SMTP id w7mr87127306lad.47.1420573777444; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.63.51 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:49:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150106194429.GC11335@elstar.local> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <20150106194429.GC11335@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:49:37 -0600 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "i2rs@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/mCxxfS0JFp7tsZGTrw08TdCUvaQ Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:49:40 -0000 On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2015 at 01:03:28PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: >> >> > A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? >> >> I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on >> ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) >> > > Big data models have happened in the past: > > $ wc -l RMON-MIB RMON2-MIB > 3952 RMON-MIB > 6019 RMON2-MIB > > Even in routing: > > $ wc -l BGP4-MIB OSPFV3-MIB > 1298 BGP4-MIB > 4241 OSPFV3-MIB > So you are saying that these are MIBs in Yang format? I see a bgp info model and a data model. I am confused. > In addition, things do not have to be monolithic. That said, it is a > good idea to try to keep it simple, stupid. +1 Regards, Behcet > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs From nobody Tue Jan 6 11:54:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DC81A00FA for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:54:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_25=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qEOc90fRns7m for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C2C41A033A for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2539; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1420574043; x=1421783643; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ff4G1g5mT/NxMAQ74fp/6W+IvNvIayb8TFq9XN5Yp3U=; b=WUfc//m/4pPqQw1e54RJXQtTt50v2yiu4E1U/Eregp6hSIGO3SxMQiax VzPo0aWFgymevtjnZju9SBuK5mvQomteEfPrMTRgq9DVAN8xKxbZu3BvS 5gWsv5S8tXTtNaCq7mXaVCLuxL7nKhTbhIJci3bTvcoppCKiQYWZ2DklR g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsEFAOk8rFStJA2J/2dsb2JhbABcgwZSWIMFwzUKhXMCgQ4WAQEBAQF9hAwBAQEDAQEBARoGDwEFNgsQCQIRBAEBAQICBQwSAwICDwIWHwkIBgEMAQUCAQEXiAkIDZFinGiTeAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEgSGOVwcKgl6BQQEEiVWNSYENgmqCEyGHeIM5IoIygVogMYJDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,709,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="384783392" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jan 2015 19:54:02 +0000 Received: from [10.150.55.12] (dhcp-10-150-55-12.cisco.com [10.150.55.12]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t06Js2Nv016339; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 19:54:02 GMT Message-ID: <54AC3D5A.60804@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:54:02 -0500 From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kwang-koog Lee , ramki Krishnan References: <003701d0086d$2984f060$7c8ed120$@ndzh.com> <32EC0F7B-4B21-40CC-BE4D-094856893C36@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <32EC0F7B-4B21-40CC-BE4D-094856893C36@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/AVenBNuyIW6hfyCG2MWs2CE8bCc Cc: Jeffrey Haas , "i2rs@ietf.org" , Susan Hares , Alia Atlas Subject: Re: [i2rs] WG Adoption call for draft-clarke-i2rs-traceability-03 from 11/24 to 12/9/14 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:54:06 -0000 On 11/27/14 1:31 AM, Kwang-koog Lee wrote: > Hi. > > I also read this document and the adoption of working group document is > essential. > > Like us, many operators agree that SDN-based approach can reduce > operational costs (the amount is depending on telco's infrastructures) > and provide a base to build new business models on top of the > software-based framework. But, SDN-based control technology is not still > matured solution to control all functions of network elements, so the > framework can be frequently changed for any updated functions and fixing > bugs anytime. In such a case, operators may face with exceptional cases > that they cannot know and recognize. If there’s no support of such > traceability, many operators have difficulties for troubleshoot. So, the > traceability which records logs in terms of SDN-based control > transactions and retrieves some status of I2RS-based service models in > network elements is essential. > > After the adoption of the working group document, I think the service > model for the traceability itself is also needed (it includes some > parameters for logs such as log policy, level, file size, and so on.) > And, as the trace log field, service model name might be added. Kwang-koog Lee, happy new year. Thanks for your support and feedback. Is there a specific Service Model for traceability you had in mind? Are you referring to the syslog YANG module? I'm trying to make sure we account for all the feedback. Thanks. Joe > > Thanks. > Kwang-koog Lee > >> 2014. 11. 27., 오전 7:11, ramki Krishnan > > 작성: >> >> Support. >> Thanks, >> Ramki >> *From:*i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org]*On Behalf Of*Susan Hares >> *Sent:*Monday, November 24, 2014 9:03 PM >> *To:*i2rs@ietf.org >> *Cc:*'Jeffrey Haas'; 'Alia Atlas' >> *Subject:*[i2rs] WG Adoption call for >> draft-clarke-i2rs-traceability-03 from 11/24 to 12/9/14 >> This is to begin a 2 week adoption call for >> draft-clarke-i2rs-traceability-03. Please include in your comments an >> indication of “support” or “no support.” >> Thank you, >> Sue Hares and Jeff Haas >> _______________________________________________ >> i2rs mailing list >> i2rs@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > > > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > From nobody Tue Jan 6 12:54:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A2B51A6FF9 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:54:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 581Pm7jzqJv3 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C1001A1BA3 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ABA753; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:06 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id gFmRo-rzWSFG; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:53:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293B220017; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:05 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vd69i8iBAGz9; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C402002C; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id EC6CD3050A15; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 21:54:05 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: sarikaya@ieee.org Message-ID: <20150106205405.GB11540@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: sarikaya@ieee.org, "i2rs@ietf.org" References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <20150106194429.GC11335@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/vCJvSc_QQGf-QQuyS_gqmUb8ZR8 Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 20:54:09 -0000 On Tue, Jan 06, 2015 at 01:49:37PM -0600, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 06, 2015 at 01:03:28PM -0500, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> > >> > A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program? > >> > >> I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on > >> ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-) > >> > > > > Big data models have happened in the past: > > > > $ wc -l RMON-MIB RMON2-MIB > > 3952 RMON-MIB > > 6019 RMON2-MIB > > > > Even in routing: > > > > $ wc -l BGP4-MIB OSPFV3-MIB > > 1298 BGP4-MIB > > 4241 OSPFV3-MIB > > > > So you are saying that these are MIBs in Yang format? No. But an argument that the IESG is not able to process 'a thousand or more line YANG' seems a bit questionable given that they were able to process data models of thousand of lines in the past. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jan 6 13:17:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44D71A7033; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:17:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GbmzAdaGaIDT; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x22f.google.com (mail-yk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DC241A86E8; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 200so34726ykr.20; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:17:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=EWXaN/QLODnKUB9QsSyHPq7apM/or5qF3ge/liJTtvs=; b=YGtiFtitb/1KtP3TkFjz7GnV6XJlLq4gi6A4PsU2I6xmUcx0c2mc6WpNSMsweTl54K 2Dvx3neVkfHLVh0WyTB9pFt9SOz9JfBsRXbNY1hfX9yyTX3FxBFO+rcrT9VRi7EZaAah TlaA69RkAtlPnu2sUu7K6cns9iEVswnAKUaGlbYJrZuI6i+XIXy5PZorsPjIxhVzWBHv nqQfqiGeD/Zlp6+zUZnvxH4Jyv3KSkIH2Oh0DE638WMeufZKcGEpXHyKYD712x6CLPpC DkHv7wEJEC2UjjLC62LYp1qhEtQi/aIHJeokfrqGma+0SSjM1cHpZi5VG8dEG9hi0mwd mA7A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.23.228 with SMTP id v64mr15860760yhv.25.1420579035501; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:17:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <13F5C878-743C-41F4-AFCE-F3766D7BE0C4@vigilsec.com> References: <13F5C878-743C-41F4-AFCE-F3766D7BE0C4@vigilsec.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:17:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Russ Housley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01229e7ec95a82050c0254ac Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/R-s1yZFD5Yvruu97VdTWLm3wOjQ Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , IETF Gen-ART , draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement.all@ietf.org Subject: Re: [i2rs] Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 21:17:23 -0000 --089e01229e7ec95a82050c0254ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Russ, Thanks for the review. Responses in-line. On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Russ Housley wrote: > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on > Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at > . > > This review is in response to a request for early Gen-ART review. > > Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review Date: 2014-12-11 > IETF LC End Date: unknown > IESG Telechat date: unknown > > Summary: Almost Ready. > > Major Concerns: > > Section 5 says, "Data written can be owned by different I2RS clients." > The intended consequences are unclear. I assume that the data written > by one client cannot be rewritten by another client. However, I can > imagine some situations where the same data object might be written by > more than one client at different times. Please add some language to > say whether this situation is within scope or not. > It is possible for the same data object to be written by more than one client at different times; conflicts are resolved by priority. The details of how this are handled are described in draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture, which, quite reasonably, you many not have read. I have changed the text to read: " Data written can be owned by different I2RS clients at different times; data may even be overwritten by a different I2RS client. The details of how this should be handled are described in [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture]." Section 5 includes a requirement for multi-channel. I would expect > policy to dictate that some requests, especially ones that impact the > whole router, come from a specific source. This might require that > the request arrive on a particular port or that it be authenticated in > a particular manner. Can more be said about the policy controls here? > In the problem statement? We do have "Secure Control: Any ability to manipulate routing state must be subject to authentication and authorization. Such communications must also have its integrity protected" It's important for most writable state. I could add a reference to the architecture again, but I'm not convinced that it is needed. These are different aspects that need to pull together into a single protocol - and the secure control with associated policy is definitely part of that. > Section 8 seems very thin to me. There are some lessons from MIBs > documented here: www.ops.ietf.org/mib-security.html. I think that > some of this extrapolates to this document, but I do not think that > a pointer to those guidelines is the best way forward. > You are right. I will add a reference to draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture, which has an extensive section discussing security. I've pulled a couple key concepts from there as well - since I think they are worth highlighting. "Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state installation and extracting of detailed router state. The security considerations are discussed in [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture]. Briefly, the I2RS Agent is assumed to have a separate authentication and authorization channel by which it can validate both the identity and the permissions associated with an I2RS Client. Mutual authentication between the I2RS Agent and I2RS Client is required. Different levels of integrity, confidentiality, and replay protection are relevant for different aspects of I2RS." Minor Concerns: > > The document talks about the IESG statement issued on 2 March 2014. > Please add a reference, which is probably best done with a URL. > Done > Section 5 says that the ability to manipulate routing controls is > "subject to authentication and authorization." This is highly desirable. > Can we go a little bit further? Is it like root on a Unix box, or is > the authorization more granular? Are there known roles that must be > supported? > It is intended to be more granular and the expectation is that there are multiple roles - but the details of those roles aren't defined in the problem-statement or even the architecture. Given the updated security considerations section, I'd rather not specify too much here. > Other Comments: > > Section 5 says: "Such communications must also have its integrity > protected." I do not know how to do authentication without also > providing integrity, so this is really implied by the previous > sentence. That said, I suggest the following wording: "Such > communications must be integrity protected." > Sure - change made. I'll publish an updated version very soon (today/tomorrow) after I've dealt with outstanding comments. Thanks again for your review! Alia --089e01229e7ec95a82050c0254ac Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Russ,

Thanks for the review.=C2=A0 R= esponses in-line.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com= > wrote:
I am the assigned Gen-ART review= er for this draft. For background on
Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq&= gt;.

This review is in response to a request for early Gen-ART review.

Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04
Reviewer: Russ Housley
Review Date: 2014-12-11
IETF LC End Date: unknown
IESG Telechat date: unknown

Summary: Almost Ready.

Major Concerns:

Section 5 says, "Data written can be owned by different I2RS clients.&= quot;
The intended consequences are unclear.=C2=A0 I assume that the data written=
by one client cannot be rewritten by another client.=C2=A0 However, I can imagine some situations where the same data object might be written by
more than one client at different times.=C2=A0 Please add some language to<= br> say whether this situation is within scope or not.
It is possible for the same data object to be written by more t= han one client
at different times; conflicts are resolved by prio= rity. =C2=A0 The details of how this=C2=A0
are handled are descri= bed in draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture, which, quite reasonably,=C2=A0
you many not have read. =C2=A0=C2=A0

I have cha= nged the text to read:


" = Data written can be owned by different I2RS clients at different times; dat= a=C2=A0
may even be overwritten by a different I2RS client.=C2=A0= The details of how this
should be handled are described in [draf= t-ietf-i2rs-architecture]."


<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa= dding-left:1ex"> Section 5 includes a requirement for multi-channel.=C2=A0 I would expect policy to dictate that some requests, especially ones that impact the
whole router, come from a specific source.=C2=A0 This might require that the request arrive on a particular port or that it be authenticated in
a particular manner.=C2=A0 Can more be said about the policy controls here?=

In the problem statement?=C2=A0 We do = have "Secure Control: Any ability to=C2=A0
manipulate routin= g state must be subject to authentication and authorization. =C2=A0
Such communications must also have its integrity protected"=C2=A0

It's important for most writable state.=C2=A0 I= could add a reference to the architecture
again, but I'm not= convinced that it is needed.=C2=A0 These are different aspects that
<= div>need to pull together into a single protocol - and the secure control w= ith associated
policy is definitely part of that.
=C2= =A0
Section 8 seems very thin to me.=C2=A0 There are some lessons from MIBs
documented here: www.ops.ietf.org/mib-security.html.=C2=A0 I think that some of this extrapolates to this document, but I do not think that
a pointer to those guidelines is the best way forward.

You are right.=C2=A0 I will add a reference to draft-ietf-i= 2rs-architecture, which has an=C2=A0
extensive section discussing= security.=C2=A0 I've pulled a couple key concepts from there
as well - since I think they are worth highlighting.

<= div>"Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 installation and extracting of detailed router sta= te.=C2=A0 The
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 security considerations are di= scussed in [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture]. =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 Briefly, the I2RS Agent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is assumed to= have a separate authentication and authorization
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 channel by which it can validate both the identity and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 permissions associated with an I2RS Client.=C2=A0 Mut= ual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 authentication between the I2RS Agent an= d I2RS Client is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 required.=C2=A0 Different l= evels of integrity, confidentiality, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rep= lay protection are relevant for different aspects of I2RS."
=
Minor Concerns:

The document talks about the IESG statement issued on 2 March 2014.
Please add a reference, which is probably best done with a URL.

Done=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Section 5 says that the ability to manipulate routing controls is
"subject to authentication and authorization."=C2=A0 This is high= ly desirable.
Can we go a little bit further?=C2=A0 Is it like root on a Unix box, or is<= br> the authorization more granular?=C2=A0 Are there known roles that must be supported?

It is intended to be more gr= anular and the expectation is that there are
multiple roles - but= the details of those roles aren't defined in the problem-statement
or even the architecture.=C2=A0 Given the updated security considera= tions section,
I'd rather not specify too much here.
=C2=A0
Other Comments:

Section 5 says: "Such communications must also have its integrity
protected."=C2=A0 I do not know how to do authentication without also<= br> providing integrity, so this is really implied by the previous
sentence.=C2=A0 That said, I suggest the following wording: "Such
communications must be integrity protected."

=
Sure - change made.=C2=A0

I'll publ= ish an updated version very soon (today/tomorrow) after I've dealt with=
outstanding comments.

Thanks again for = your review!
Alia
--089e01229e7ec95a82050c0254ac-- From nobody Tue Jan 6 13:53:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D231A8731 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:53:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTSbaJet1bIL for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x22f.google.com (mail-yh0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1206C1A8726 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f47.google.com with SMTP id f73so59545yha.34 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:53:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=3Gu3uGqXB7m/2mb2ktfD72YE2brSnjFaLR+M17UQ+ww=; b=F0XirVDhMpGNg4upFFei87ypeJiNjbL0zzqv8obDpZ5MUZ+WoN5v7Zt9jCnTEqh01s FAre905JJQwxQ5fJyNrYnohzZc1LWgPhrwooxqXcQUSXBHYqQ9Twqc/Wyq7nyoiKy6hU zeAhyAv9qzKXF2+TFgsA+XJWQhrJoYYxjyIYQG9u4N2OJk4iiLdOFimbQYa5gh64B5QR lVW6gNMg6DWYdAGRZyt8beXCfl/HTU24XOnd8GdmQMKRuv7M98Xt4niIuWPVbChztf70 cJaXyyPnzHJK9aiGWaHNc3z7Ptv5+ApAZh0cJY0kVZb5ZP9FCr9znZ4OLtZBv6gOQvjt Pfmw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.7.115 with SMTP id 79mr18144577yho.16.1420581214291; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:53:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 16:53:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Qin Wu Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133e464a70b84050c02d67a Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/ko54NXk4Vnc696TNDeONA37TaJw Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 21:53:43 -0000 --001a1133e464a70b84050c02d67a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin, Thanks for the review and taking on being document shepherd! On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Qin Wu wrote: > Hi, authors > > > > I have been selected as the document shepherd for this draft. > > I think this is an important draft and support publication. > > > > Having reviewed this document (v-04), I have a number of editorial > comments: > > > > 1. Section 2 said: > > > > "The second critical aspect are meaningful data-models for information > > in the routing system and in a topology database . " > > > > There is a typo in it, Suggested editorial change is: > > =E2=80=9CThe second critical aspect of I2RS is a set of meaningful data-m= odels for > > information in the routing system and in a topology database.=E2=80=9D > Agreed and fixed. > 2.Section 2 said: > > " The data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax that is > straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design > paradigm)." > > > > By reading this sentence, it is not clear what is translated? > > data model or information from the routing system? > > > > Suggested change: > > The data models information sent in I2RS protocol should be able to be > translated into a concise transfer syntax that is straightforward for > applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm). > I've changed it slightly to "The data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax, sent via the I2RS protocol, that is straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm)." The data model is in YANG - but the transfer syntax might be xml or google protobufs or... 3. Section 3, first paragraph said: > > "In addition, by having I2RS focus > > initially on interfaces to the RIB layer (e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast > > RIB, policy-based routing), the ability to use routing indirection > > allows flexibility and functionality that can't be as easily obtained > > at the forwarding layer." > > > > I think here we should highlight the downside of using existing mechanism= . > > > > Suggest the following replacement text: > > =E2=80=9C > > With an I2RS interface to the RIB layer (e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast RIB, > policy-based routing), this provides flexibility and functionality for > route indirection of next-hops. > > This flexibility and functionality cannot be easily obtained at the > forwarding layer, or obtain via the relevant MIB modules (for example > RFC4292) which lack the necessary generality and flexibility. > > =E2=80=9C > I'm fine with not highlighting the downsides more clearly. I prefer the existing text. > 4.Section 4, second paragraph said: > > " Detailed topological state that provides more information than the > current > > functional status is needed by applications; only the active paths or > > links are known versus those potentially available (e.g. > > administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers) to the > > routing topology. " > > Two sentences seems disconnected, suggested replacement text as below: > > =E2=80=9C > > Detailed topological state which provides more information than the curre= nt > > functional status is needed by applications. An example of this > > lack of detailed information is that only the active paths or > > links are known versus those potentially available paths (e.g. > > administratively down) or unknown paths (e.g. to peers or customers) to t= he > > routing topology. > > =E2=80=9C > Slightly word-smithed to: " Detailed topological state that provides more information than the current functional status (e.g. active paths and links) is needed by applications. Examples of missing information include paths or link that are potentially available (e.g. administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers) to the routing topology." > 5. Section 8: Security consideration section > > Would it be better to add something to say this document is problem > statement draft > > Security considerations are not addressed in this problem statement only > document. Instead it will be addressed in some protocol documents in the > future. > > > > Suggested Replacement for section 8: > > =E2=80=9C > > Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state installation > and extracting of detailed router state. The I2RS protocol and data model= s > will need to define security requirements such as such as authorization a= nd > authentication levels. > > > > This document as an informational problem statement does not have any > security considerations. > > =E2=80=9C > As you may have seen from my email exchange with Russ Housley, I've updated the Security Considerations section to: "Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state installation and extracting of detailed router state. The security considerations are discussed in [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture]. Briefly, the I2RS Agent is assumed to have a separate authentication and authorization channel by which it can validate both the identity and the permissions associated with an I2RS Client. Mutual authentication between the I2RS Agent and I2RS Client is required. Different levels of integrity, confidentiality, and replay protection are relevant for different aspects of I2RS." > > > 6. Section 9 > > Reference [I-D.gredler-idr-ls-distribution] should be updated to > [I-D.ietf-idr-ls-distribution] > Fixed Thanks again! Alia > > > Regards! > > -Qin > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > > --001a1133e464a70b84050c02d67a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Qin,

Thanks for the review and takin= g on being document shepherd!

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei= .com> wrote:

= Hi, authors

= =C2=A0

= I have been selected as the document shepherd for this draft.

= I think this is an important draft and support publication.

= =C2=A0

= Having reviewed this document (v-04), I have a number of editorial comments= :

= =C2=A0

= 1. Section 2 said:

= =C2=A0

= "The second critical aspect are meaningful data-models for information=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 in the routing system and in a topology database . =C2=A0"= ;

= =C2=A0

= There is a typo in it, Suggested editorial change is:<= /p>

= =E2=80=9CThe second critical aspect of I2RS is a set of meaningful data-mod= els for

= information in the routing system and in a topology database.=E2=80=9D


Agreed and fixed.=C2=A0<= /div>
=C2=A0

= 2.Section 2 said:

= " The data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax that= is straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design pa= radigm)."

= =C2=A0

= By reading this sentence, it is not clear what is translated?=

= data model or information from the routing system?

= =C2=A0

= Suggested change: =C2=A0

= The data models information sent in I2RS protocol should be able to be tran= slated into a concise transfer syntax that is straightforward for applicati= ons to use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm).


I've changed it slightly to
"Th= e data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax, sent via
=C2=A0 the I2RS protocol, that is straightforward for applications t= o
=C2=A0 use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm)."
<= div>=C2=A0=C2=A0
The = data model is in YANG - but the transfer syntax might be xml or google prot= obufs or...

= 3. Section 3, first paragraph said:

= "In addition, by having I2RS focus

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 initially on interfaces to the RIB layer (e.g.=C2=A0 RIB, LIB,= multicast

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 RIB, policy-based routing), the ability to use routing indirec= tion

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 allows flexibility and functionality that can't be as easi= ly obtained

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 at the forwarding layer."

= =C2=A0

= I think here we should highlight the downside of using existing mechanism.

= =C2=A0

= Suggest the following replacement text:

= =E2=80=9C

= With an I2RS interface to the RIB layer =C2=A0(e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast RIB= , policy-based routing), this provides flexibility and functionality for ro= ute indirection of next-hops.

= This flexibility and functionality cannot be easily obtained at the forward= ing layer, or obtain via the relevant MIB modules=C2=A0 (for example RFC429= 2) which lack the necessary generality and flexibility.

= =E2=80=9C


I'm fine wit= h not highlighting the downsides more clearly. =C2=A0 I prefer the existing= text.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

= 4.Section 4, second paragraph said:

= " Detailed topological state that provides more information than the c= urrent

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 functional status is needed by applications; only the active p= aths or

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 links are known versus those potentially available=C2=A0 (e.g.=

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers)= to the

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 routing topology. "

= Two sentences seems disconnected, suggested replacement text as below:

= =E2=80=9C

= Detailed topological state which provides more information than the current=

= functional status is needed by applications. An example of this

= lack of detailed information is that only the active paths or=

= links are known versus those potentially available paths (e.g.

= administratively down) or unknown paths (e.g. to peers or customers) to the=

= routing topology.

= =E2=80=9C


Slightly w= ord-smithed to:

" Detailed topological state = that provides more information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the curr= ent functional status (e.g. active paths and links)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 is needed by applications.=C2=A0 Examples of missing information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 include paths or link that are potentially ava= ilable (e.g.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 administratively down) or unkno= wn (e.g. to peers or customers)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to the routi= ng topology."

=C2=A0
=

= 5. Section 8: Security consideration section

= Would it be better to add something to say this document is problem stateme= nt draft

= Security considerations are not addressed in this problem statement only do= cument. Instead it will be addressed in some protocol documents in the futu= re.

= =C2=A0

= Suggested Replacement for section 8:

= =E2=80=9C

= Security is a key aspect of any=C2=A0 protocol that allows state installati= on and extracting of detailed router state. The I2RS protocol and data mode= ls will need to define security requirements such as such as authorization and authentication levels.

= =C2=A0

= This document as an informational problem statement does not have any secur= ity considerations.

= =E2=80=9C


As you may= have seen from my email exchange with Russ Housley, I've updated the S= ecurity Considerations
section to:

"= ;Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 installation and extracting of detailed router state.=C2= =A0 The
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 security considerations are discusse= d in [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture].=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B= riefly, the I2RS Agent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is assumed to have a = separate authentication and authorization
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ch= annel by which it can validate both the identity and the
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 permissions associated with an I2RS Client.=C2=A0 Mutual
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 authentication between the I2RS Agent and I2RS C= lient is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 required.=C2=A0 Different levels of= integrity, confidentiality, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 replay prot= ection are relevant for different aspects of I2RS."


=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= 6. Section 9

= Reference=C2=A0 [I-D.gredler-idr-ls-distribution] should be updated to=C2= =A0 [I-D.ietf-idr-ls-distribution]


Fixed

Thanks again!
Alia
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa= dding-left:1ex">

=C2=A0


=C2=A0

= Regards!

= -Qin


_______________________________________________
i2rs mailing list
i2rs@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs


--001a1133e464a70b84050c02d67a-- From nobody Tue Jan 6 14:28:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACBC1A0123; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:28:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U52aCmBm4Nj9; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x236.google.com (mail-yh0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9CB01A0103; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f54.google.com with SMTP id c41so93506yho.13; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1Yzen8g9zA0L1TBZY4LWWnqs61rXZ7szqKX00LsFHpY=; b=u2N4DY8gCDF73wMrACP5HCkrq82Fys9VicFgaEa9GrUJh0Xp+gSZq95KA14LWZDD/R i+/MUZCyZNg1cy7i89WBLdk0Yfp1EL2/J7MBdq0j3X8HsIMLW0GwFrApCsOvtKO7A/Jo ZcI/K4HHQkqg9hw54zysiZc571AzCIm0YoXKDAodOX5UbjKH31F7UaEGQa07AjCBlBMm zFqNgRtfME7rvKz1GKb4gCo0htl4D1NicK7K7m9QI8xs3+gbr3UiibOf5y0zSvTvzyrN exp7gs+gd/2luDtT0H1KCp1i4WcYCDhcQ8Qfe+6DGUuI4A/Cwy8ImoH23KjvjJEKperl f2LA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.27.75 with SMTP id d51mr4784761yha.60.1420583323182; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C21B95@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBAFDD37CBB@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C21B95@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 17:28:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Eric Gray Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160be8e5a2f40050c035450 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/_Cq0cYliF4FVl9po0mQO9R5dcLU Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "i2rs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 22:28:47 -0000 --089e0160be8e5a2f40050c035450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, Thanks for your review. I really appreciate it. On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. > > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related > drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes > on special request. > > The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. > > For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see: > > =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF > Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through > discussion or by updating the draft. > > Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement > Reviewer: Eric Gray > Review Date: 12/16/2014 > Intended Status: Informational > > Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think > should be resolved before before publication. The document has nits > that should also be considered prior to publication. > > Minor Issues: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Section 5 title is "Desired Aspects of ..." but the first sentence talks > about > "required aspects ..." I believe that the authors should be consistent. Keeping required > The actual "key aspects needed" are a mixture or required and desired > behaviors. Because the draft does not refer to RFC 2119 terminology, > it is not clear if this is intended or a result of narrative style choice= s. > I'm not sure which ones you are reading as desired vs. required. The inten= t is that all are required; trade-offs do happen. > If the terminology is meant to be interpreted according to RFC 2119, > then this should be added as a reference. Otherwise, perhaps the title > of the section should be changed to: > > "Aspects to be Considered in Designing Protocol for I2RS" > Yes, slightly tweaked to "Aspects to be Considered for an I2RS Protocol" since I2RS is expecting to modify an existing protocol rather than design a new one. > In this section, in addition to "Secure Control" we may want to suggest > similar "Secure Access." Information about routing may be useful to an > attacker for other forms of attack than direct control. > True - just updated the bullet to be "Secure Control and Access". The content now reads: " Any ability to manipulate routing state must be subject to authentication and authorization. Sensitive routing information may also need to be provided via secure access back to the I2RS client. Such communications must be integrity protected. Some communications will also require confidentiality. " > Section 8 ("Security Considerations") - Minimally, this section should > point to security aspects mentioned in the preceding section. > Done and extended > Note that this section mentions "extraction of detailed router state" > which is one form of access that may both require that requests > are authenticated and that information may not be intercepted. > > NITS: > =3D=3D=3D=3D > > In the Introduction, second line of the first paragraph, "With scale ..." > should start a new paragraph to be consistent with the next paragraph. > eh, not worried about the consistency given it would leave the first paragraph with one sentence. In the appendix the first paragraph should probably end in much the > same way as the second paragraph, i.e. - > > "CLI Standardization is not considered as a candidate solution for the > I2RS." > > It is not clear what we are trying to say in saying "I2RS does not involv= e > CLI Standardization." > Sure - changed. Thanks again, Alia --089e0160be8e5a2f40050c035450 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Eric,

Thanks for your review.=C2= =A0 I really appreciate it.

On Tue, Dec 1= 6, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com> = wrote:
Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request.

The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.

For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/are= a/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement
Reviewer: Eric Gray
Review Date: 12/16/2014
Intended Status: Informational

Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think
should be resolved before before publication.=C2=A0 The document has nits that should also be considered prior to publication.

Minor Issues:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Section 5 title is "Desired Aspects of ..." but the first sentenc= e talks about
"required aspects ..."=C2=A0 I believe that the authors should be= consistent.

Keeping required=C2=A0
=C2=A0
The actual "key aspects needed" are a mixture or required and des= ired
behaviors.=C2=A0 Because the draft does not refer to RFC 2119 terminology,<= br> it is not clear if this is intended or a result of narrative style choices.=

I'm not sure which ones you are re= ading as desired vs. required.=C2=A0 The intent
is that all are r= equired; trade-offs do happen. =C2=A0
=C2=A0
If the terminology is meant to be interpreted according to RFC 2119,
then this should be added as a reference.=C2=A0 Otherwise, perhaps the titl= e
of the section should be changed to:

=C2=A0 "Aspects to be Considered in Designing Protocol for I2RS"<= br>

Yes, slightly tweaked to=C2=A0
"Aspects to be Considered for an I2RS Protocol"
since= I2RS is expecting to modify an existing protocol rather than design
<= div>a new one.

=C2=A0
In this section, in addition to "Secure Control" we may want to s= uggest
similar "Secure Access."=C2=A0 Information about routing may be u= seful to an
attacker for other forms of attack than direct control.

=C2=A0True - just updated the bullet to be "Secure Co= ntrol and Access".
The content now reads:
" =C2=A0 Any ability to manipulate routing state must be s= ubject to authentication and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 authorization.= =C2=A0 Sensitive routing information may also need to
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 be provided via secure access back to the I2RS client.=C2=A0 Suc= h
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 communications must be integrity protected= .=C2=A0 Some communications
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 will also requir= e confidentiality.
"
=C2=A0
Section 8 ("Security Considerations") - Minimally, this section s= hould
point to security aspects mentioned in the preceding section.

Done and extended=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Note that this section mentions "extraction of detailed router state&q= uot;
which is one form of access that may both require that requests
are authenticated and that information may not be intercepted.

NITS:
=3D=3D=3D=3D

In the Introduction, second line of the first paragraph, "With scale .= .."
should start a new paragraph to be consistent with the next paragraph.
<= /blockquote>

eh, not worried about the consistency given= it would leave the first paragraph
with one sentence.
=
In the appendix the first paragraph should proba= bly end in much the
same way as the second paragraph, i.e. -

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"CLI Standardization is not considered as a candidate sol= ution for the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I2RS."

It is not clear what we are trying to say in saying "I2RS does not inv= olve
CLI Standardization."

Sure - chang= ed.

Thanks again,
Alia=C2=A0
=
--089e0160be8e5a2f40050c035450-- From nobody Tue Jan 6 14:40:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2421A8743; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:40:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h9WANkmxBfId; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757301A0053; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:40:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.0.p4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150106224000.21623.33232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:40:00 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/TQZDsJfGW5tDWMMbGHpU3adjUoE Cc: i2rs@ietf.org Subject: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-05.txt X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 22:40:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to the Routing System Working Group of the IETF. Title : Interface to the Routing System Problem Statement Authors : Alia Atlas Thomas D. Nadeau Dave Ward Filename : draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-05.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-01-06 Abstract: As modern networks grow in scale and complexity, the need for rapid and dynamic control increases. With scale, the need to automate even the simplest operations is important, but even more critical is the ability to quickly interact with more complex operations such as policy-based controls. In order to enable network applications to have access to and control over information in the Internet's routing system, we need a publicly documented interface specification. The interface needs to support real-time, asynchronous interactions using data models and encodings that are efficient and potentially different from those available today. Furthermore, the interface must be tailored to support a variety of use cases. This document expands upon these statements of requirements to provide a detailed problem statement for an Interface to the Routing System (I2RS). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jan 6 14:41:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCF31A1B43 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:41:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMbMfy38aURe for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x235.google.com (mail-yh0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 492B51A0053 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f53.google.com with SMTP id i57so94445yha.26 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:41:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=pOYwFNwkTKZqFBz/Y/kYPbnikJWZwBO9skn0goJFtu0=; b=q1C78l2+LSAgDv4025qIYqhBIogFpL5WdhXoLDAtj+yopVrZj+zu7Xla67hVaBWpkj xzmctreZTfaCcWy7lqSMZ6wp0UCnCA8/MhsvzHE4VG3e+wSbtdhxefN6HoDVeA2UK/oc shK7n5UfIJLSXrukuiDj86/aKzIK1jVzhrcH1OgRx+k6nlXMlO45rUxVr5EYK5Rkic9h ckhEAbJRVoTpbglk9zYTcJkdVUSMXEhT+EaFOA+KztCp1/niz1j9U7Ig8vNy7o7O4Veb oKUg5pUEX3u9DEh08gi4bEKDW7DeaS7rHKsUpKJI6TWBuvZi67NFhc0GupAUVfyDYoqw FOmQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.39.70 with SMTP id 67mr71507587ykh.36.1420584113555; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:41:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 17:41:53 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "i2rs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11379da2765158050c0383c2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/4hgRkaXjTo83ndGMLrGLKwDADFY Subject: [i2rs] updated draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-05 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 22:41:56 -0000 --001a11379da2765158050c0383c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have posted an updated version that I believe responds to all the various reviews that I saw (GenArt, RtgDir, SecDir, Shepherd). Please send any comments and concerns about the new version to the list as well as me. Regards, Alia --001a11379da2765158050c0383c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have posted an updated version that I believe responds t= o all the
various reviews that I saw (GenArt, RtgDir, SecDir, Shepherd)= .

Please send any comments and concerns about the = new version to
the list as well as me.

R= egards,
Alia
--001a11379da2765158050c0383c2-- From nobody Wed Jan 7 08:14:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96081A883C; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 08:14:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYs8ZqlM9GjZ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 08:13:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 755DA1A882C; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 08:13:54 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-73-54acfd400ad2 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 10.33.25146.04DFCA45; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 10:32:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 11:13:52 -0500 From: Eric Gray To: Alia Atlas Thread-Topic: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement Thread-Index: AdASzMOVIfiS0moJSJ+SRZnsRCtD9wGqsbPQBCyfx4AAGIF90A== Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 16:13:51 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2EB0B@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBAFDD37CBB@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C21B95@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: 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20:55:06.4167 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR0501MB1581 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/V0wGxMtmgWVVnUSJQtdoWntKCvk Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "i2rs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 20:55:19 -0000 --_000_DM2PR0501MB15816C202CC57CA8C3A9DD81B5460DM2PR0501MB1581_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgRXJpYywNCg0KUmVzcG9uc2VzIGluLWxpbmUgYmVsb3cgKGJ1dCB3aXRoIGFncmVlbWVudHMg 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[198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A06CD1A039D; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:09:57 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79376d000000ceb-5c-54ad4ec62bb2 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CF.F2.03307.6CE4DA45; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 16:20:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 16:09:48 -0500 From: Eric Gray To: Alia Atlas , Alia Atlas Thread-Topic: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement Thread-Index: AdASzMOVIfiS0moJSJ+SRZnsRCtD9wGqsbPQBCyfx4AAGIF90AAWhB4AAApScNA= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 21:09:47 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2F32F@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBAFDD37CBB@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C21B95@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2EB0B@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2F32Feusaamb107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn+4xv7UhBhfmKFt8eniJ2eLrtTSL mQ/fM1qsm/GBxeL5nJksFgvWPGV3YPPYOesuu8eSJT+ZPK43XWX3+HL5M1sASxSXTUpqTmZZ apG+XQJXxs+2XqaCXxOYK17Na2FsYDzQxtzFyMkhIWAi8WluCxuELSZx4d56IJuLQ0jgCKPE pecfmCCcZYwSDWdesoBUsQloSBy7s5YRxBYRcJHYeGYTM0gRs8ArRoneS0+YQBLCAhESB9cd YIEoipRY39PM3sXIAWT7SSzrlgUJswioSFz7tQSshFfAV+LVjeeMEMu+MEm8WdHICpLgFEiU WHJ8FlgRI9B530+tAZvPLCAucevJfCaIswUkluw5D/WOqMTLx/9YIWxFiX3909kh6vMlFk56 wgqxTFDi5MwnLBMYRWchGTULSdksJGWzgM5mFtCUWL9LH6JEUWJK90N2CFtDonXOXHZk8QWM 7KsYOUqLU8ty040MNjECo/KYBJvuDsY9Ly0PMQpwMCrx8H7IWBMixJpYVlyZe4hRmoNFSZx3 Vu28YCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUovii0pzU4kOMTBycUg2M1QF+dyLPB51redMn1RsQbLM+cJbugnmB /R71rzxutj04/Sd3SfmCEwv9Zdea8N+e4GgyNWLGdee5d19b2SQsqjuV6Vaa/crtpP1fqbPJ 33ge28QeXe+ZmPKKRzwit/r9rMaV0zkSn6WaTT2nXXx8Jle6jk3uAVl3wWAdhdy1+4Qm7Ago fKqixFKckWioxVxUnAgA6iLLyasCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/IIYtKOTuKP2qCar_4aJbdrR4ADo Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "i2rs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 21:10:17 -0000 --_000_48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2F32Feusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a_iAf_RG2zvr; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86191A1BEF; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:13:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.0.p4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150107211310.26791.98870.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:13:10 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/VPf5JyuQgOefgQLbAbx2Aa-Txu0 Cc: i2rs@ietf.org Subject: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-06.txt X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 21:13:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to the Routing System Working Group of the IETF. Title : Interface to the Routing System Problem Statement Authors : Alia Atlas Thomas D. Nadeau Dave Ward Filename : draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-06.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2015-01-07 Abstract: As modern networks grow in scale and complexity, the need for rapid and dynamic control increases. With scale, the need to automate even the simplest operations is important, but even more critical is the ability to quickly interact with more complex operations such as policy-based controls. In order to enable network applications to have access to and control over information in the Internet's routing system, we need a publicly documented interface specification. The interface needs to support real-time, asynchronous interactions using data models and encodings that are efficient and potentially different from those available today. Furthermore, the interface must be tailored to support a variety of use cases. This document expands upon these statements of requirements to provide a detailed problem statement for an Interface to the Routing System (I2RS). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 7 13:14:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E811A1BA2; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1vGY0WjBkoH7; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yh0-x232.google.com (mail-yh0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53ECC1A3BA6; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yh0-f50.google.com with SMTP id b6so1018085yha.37; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:13:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8R52WblxWGmZ0EQ7j8y7RfU7QpC5F4/O6CkaNTOWKiQ=; b=Mm/0bNQ9cduBz9mQfLQZYQFgXfrdq98zEwfbKNofR75ehxu1Jf01Z21o9zTSRF7jeo yknFmHEgEflCtSHZ+SDz+gEIx01zyS8UX9cstESuZwlkJJxemCQLJ7vkKB9bvEhaIeVE wLFqsag3H71SGkmIWqegcTSBNgHhP5Oa43PU+JJWv/dwouNUhx3UoqpilJNb85bIA0y8 AUINPtEIZ9kfk9RijyBJDEaKzzi+hpEhbBy18j95jI8/hMZumLF5CX/8LtqswzrhDZYp n73/Gd6dBmDBT1l1aB/v9rFKrYXW4GRASeBaEJ4lvcpNzgQX7D6mlXCbV+B9O6ZdttSQ ixQw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.23.228 with SMTP id v64mr3661371yhv.25.1420665235578; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.133.18 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:13:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2F32F@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <09CE6C3BE5E1EA40B987BF5F25D8DDBAFDD37CBB@ENFICSMBX1.datcon.co.uk> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C21B95@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2EB0B@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF632C2F32F@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 16:13:55 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Eric Gray Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01229e7eb62400050c166623 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/5su-CU-hht1XuQtRt6CTRe5yP8w Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "i2rs@ietf.org" , Alia Atlas , "draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 21:14:08 -0000 --089e01229e7eb62400050c166623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, Ok. Done and posted as version -06. Thanks, Alia On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > Alia, > > > > I=E2=80=99m happy with not changing the text further in s= ection 5 > and I would > > appreciate it if you make the minor change to the introduction. > > > > So it looks like we have converged=E2=80=A6 > > > > -- > > Eric > > > > *From:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@juniper.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 3:55 PM > *To:* Eric Gray; Alia Atlas > *Cc:* rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; i2rs@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement > *Importance:* High > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > Responses in-line below (but with agreements removed). > > I=E2=80=99ll push out the slightly modified version as soon as I hear bac= k from > you. > > > > Thanks again, > > Alia > > > > > > *From:* Eric Gray [mailto:eric.gray@ericsson.com = ] > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 11:14 AM > *To:* Alia Atlas > *Cc:* rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; i2rs@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement > > > > Alia, > > > > Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays. > > > > Responses in-line *below*=E2=80=A6 > > > > *From:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 5:29 PM > *To:* Eric Gray > *Cc:* rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; i2rs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of > draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement > *Importance:* High > > > > Hi Eric, > > > > Thanks for your review. I really appreciate it. > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Eric Gray wrote= : > > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. > > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related > drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes > on special request. > > The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. > > For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see: > > =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF > Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through > discussion or by updating the draft. > > Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement > Reviewer: Eric Gray > Review Date: 12/16/2014 > Intended Status: Informational > > Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think > should be resolved before before publication. The document has nits > that should also be considered prior to publication. > > Minor Issues: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Section 5 title is "Desired Aspects of ..." but the first sentence talks > about > "required aspects ..." I believe that the authors should be consistent. > > > > Keeping required > > > > The actual "key aspects needed" are a mixture or required and desired > behaviors. Because the draft does not refer to RFC 2119 terminology, > it is not clear if this is intended or a result of narrative style choice= s. > > > > I'm not sure which ones you are reading as desired vs. required. The > intent > > is that all are required; trade-offs do happen. > > > > *Changing the section title helps. The issues that remain are less > significant* > > *when considered as =E2=80=9Caspects to be considered.=E2=80=9D* > > > > *I wanted to avoid being pedantic, but one example (now more minor) is as= * > > *follows:* > > - *1st paragraph uses the phrase =E2=80=9Cdescribes required asp= ects=E2=80=9D* > > - *the 1st list item (multiple simultaneous asynchronous > operations),* > > *however, says that a single application should be able to =E2=80=A6* > > > > I am well used to pendatry ;-) > > > > *Without the reference to RFC 2119, =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D may be ambig= uously > interpreted* > > *according to standard English as something likely but not required.* > > > > *I think what was probably meant in this case is that protocol is require= d > to* > > *support applications that perform multiple concurrent operations (which > is* > > *something we believe applications should be able to do).* > > > > *The current text is not explicit about this as a protocol requirement, i= f > that is * > > *what is intended, instead making the protocol requirement implicit based > on * > > *the way that we believe applications would likely use it.* > > > > *There are similar issues with =E2=80=9CHigh Throughput=E2=80=9D, =E2=80= =9CLow Latency=E2=80=9D and > =E2=80=9CMulti-* > > *Channel.=E2=80=9D* > > > > *One advantage of referring to RFC 2119 is it makes =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80= =9D less > ambiguous,* > > *and defines this term (and other terms) as =E2=80=9Crequirement levels.= =E2=80=9D* > > > > *But I am okay with leaving this as is, because of the heading change. > Most* > > *people will be able to figure out what is meant, eventually. **J* > > > > I think so also. This is describing what the solution should look like = =E2=80=93 > not giving the > > detailed protocol requirements. > > > > > > Note that this section mentions "extraction of detailed router state" > which is one form of access that may both require that requests > are authenticated and that information may not be intercepted. > > NITS: > =3D=3D=3D=3D > > In the Introduction, second line of the first paragraph, "With scale ..." > should start a new paragraph to be consistent with the next paragraph. > > > > eh, not worried about the consistency given it would leave the first > paragraph > > with one sentence. > > > > *Single-sentence paragraphs are quite common.* > > > > *See, for instance the earlier paragraph in the latest draft that reads > =E2=80=9CThis draft * > > *will expire on July 10, 2015.=E2=80=9D* > > > > *Again, I was trying to avoid pedanticism. Sigh.* > > > > *More important in either prose or specification is that a paragraph > represents a* > > *single block/concept in whatever it is you are trying to construct.* > > > > *Even in prose, if you have an opening sentence that introduces two thing= s > you* > > *want to talk about, then either both of them or neither of them should b= e > in* > > *the same paragraph. For prose, this is mostly about flow.* > > > > *In specification, it is slightly more important. A reader who is > skimming the * > > *introductory text before plowing into the salient parts of the > specification is* > > *likely to actually miss the point you=E2=80=99re making about scale beca= use it=E2=80=99s > buried* > > *in the paragraph that introduces issues with both scale and complexity.* > > > > *If scale were important, it probably would be in a separate paragraph.* > > > > *Of course, you could (in prose anyway) do this deliberately as a way to > place* > > *greater emphasis on the second point, sort of along the following lines:= * > > > > *=E2=80=9CThere are two major kinds of ideas that we can expect to encoun= ter in > our* > > *discussions: good ideas and bad ideas. Bad ideas are obviously somethin= g* > > *we want to quickly dispense with.* > > > > *=E2=80=9CGood ideas, on the other hand, should be =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D* > > > > *In my opinion, use of this sort of literary device in a specification > would be just* > > *a bit inappropriate. If the text is not worth emphasis, leave it out.* > > > > I do think it is worth the emphasis and agree that there is almost > parallelism in > > the text deliberately. I just didn=E2=80=99t feel it was necessary, bu= t if you > feel strongly > > enough to write many paragraphs about it, I=E2=80=99ll change it. > > > --089e01229e7eb62400050c166623 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric,

Ok.=C2=A0 Done and posted as vers= ion -06.

Thanks,
Alia

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 4= :09 PM, Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com> wrote:

Alia,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80= =99m happy with not changing the text further in section 5 and I would

appreciate it if you make= the minor change to the introduction.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So it lo= oks like we have converged=E2=80=A6

=C2=A0

--

Eric=

=C2=A0

From: Alia Atl= as [mailto:akatlas= @juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 3:55 PM
To: Eric Gray; Alia Atlas
Cc: rtg-= ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools= .ietf.org; i2rs@ietf= .org
Subject: RE: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs= -problem-statement
Importance: High

=C2=A0

Hi Eric,=

=C2=A0

Responses in-line below (but = with agreements removed).

I=E2=80=99ll push out the sli= ghtly modified version as soon as I hear back from you.

=C2=A0

Thanks again,

Alia

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Eric G= ray [mailto:eri= c.gray@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 11:14 AM
To: Alia Atlas
Cc: rtg-= ads@tools.ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; i2rs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs= -problem-statement

=C2=A0

Alia,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hope eve= ryone enjoyed the holidays.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Response= s in-line below=E2=80=A6

=C2=A0

From: Alia Atl= as [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 5:29 PM
To: Eric Gray
Cc: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; rt= g-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.= org; i2rs@= ietf.org
Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing directorate review of draft-ietf-i2rs= -problem-statement
Importance: High

=C2=A0

Hi Eric,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your revie= w.=C2=A0 I really appreciate it.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.c= om> wrote:

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request.

The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.

For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/are= a/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement
Reviewer: Eric Gray
Review Date: 12/16/2014
Intended Status: Informational

Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think
should be resolved before before publication.=C2=A0 The document has nits that should also be considered prior to publication.

Minor Issues:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Section 5 title is "Desired Aspects of ..." but the first sentenc= e talks about
"required aspects ..."=C2=A0 I believe that the authors should be= consistent.

=C2=A0

Keeping required=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The actual "key aspects needed" are a mixt= ure or required and desired
behaviors.=C2=A0 Because the draft does not refer to RFC 2119 terminology,<= br> it is not clear if this is intended or a result of narrative style choices.=

=C2=A0

I'm not sure which ones you are reading as desir= ed vs. required.=C2=A0 The intent

is that all are required; trade-offs do happen. =C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Changing the sectio= n title helps.=C2=A0 The issues that remain are less significant<= /u>

when considered as = =E2=80=9Caspects to be considered.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

I wanted to avoid b= eing pedantic, but one example (now more minor) is as<= /i>

follows:<= /u>

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1st paragraph uses the p= hrase =E2=80=9Cdescribes required aspects=E2=80=9D

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the 1st list item (multi= ple simultaneous asynchronous operations),

however, says that a single application should be able to =E2=80=A6

=C2=A0

I am well used to pendatry ;-= )

=C2=A0

Without the referen= ce to RFC 2119, =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D may be ambiguously interpreted<= /u>

according to standa= rd English as something likely but not required.

=C2=A0

I think what was pr= obably meant in this case is that protocol is required to

support application= s that perform multiple concurrent operations (which is

something we believ= e applications should be able to do).

=C2=A0

The current text is= not explicit about this as a protocol requirement, if that is

what is intended, i= nstead making the protocol requirement implicit based on

the way that we bel= ieve applications would likely use it.

=C2=A0

There are similar i= ssues with =E2=80=9CHigh Throughput=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CLow Latency=E2=80=9D= and =E2=80=9CMulti-

Channel.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

One advantage of re= ferring to RFC 2119 is it makes =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D less ambiguous,=

and defines this te= rm (and other terms) as =E2=80=9Crequirement levels.=E2=80=9D=

=C2=A0

But I am okay with = leaving this as is, because of the heading change.=C2=A0 Most=

people will be able= to figure out what is meant, eventually.=C2=A0 J<= /u>

=C2=A0

I think so also.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = This is describing what the solution should look like =E2=80=93 not giving = the

detailed protocol requirement= s.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Note that this section mentions "extraction of = detailed router state"
which is one form of access that may both require that requests
are authenticated and that information may not be intercepted.

NITS:
=3D=3D=3D=3D

In the Introduction, second line of the first paragraph, "With scale .= .."
should start a new paragraph to be consistent with the next paragraph.

=C2=A0

eh, not worried about the consistency given it would= leave the first paragraph

with one sentence.

=C2=A0

Single-sentence par= agraphs are quite common.

=C2=A0

See, for instance t= he earlier paragraph in the latest draft that reads =E2=80=9CThis draft

will expire on July= 10, 2015.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

Again, I was trying= to avoid pedanticism.=C2=A0 Sigh.

=C2=A0

More important in e= ither prose or specification is that a paragraph represents a=

single block/concep= t in whatever it is you are trying to construct.

=C2=A0

Even in prose, if y= ou have an opening sentence that introduces two things you

want to talk about,= then either both of them or neither of them should be in

the same paragraph.= =C2=A0 For prose, this is mostly about flow.

=C2=A0

In specification, i= t is slightly more important.=C2=A0 A reader who is skimming the

introductory text b= efore plowing into the salient parts of the specification is<= /span>

likely to actually = miss the point you=E2=80=99re making about scale because it=E2=80=99s burie= d

in the paragraph th= at introduces issues with both scale and complexity.

=C2=A0

If scale were =C2= =A0important, it probably would be in a separate paragraph.

=C2=A0

Of course, you coul= d (in prose anyway) do this deliberately as a way to place

greater emphasis on= the second point, sort of along the following lines:<= /i>

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThere are = two major kinds of ideas that we can expect to encounter in our

discussions: good i= deas and bad ideas.=C2=A0 Bad ideas are obviously something

we want to quickly = dispense with.

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CGood ideas= , on the other hand, should be =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D<= /b>

=C2=A0

In my opinion, use = of this sort of literary device in a specification would be just<= /u>

a bit inappropriate= .=C2=A0 If the text is not worth emphasis, leave it out.

=C2=A0

I do think it is worth the em= phasis and agree that there is almost parallelism in

the text deliberately.=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 I just didn=E2=80=99t feel it was necessary, but if you feel s= trongly

enough to write many paragrap= hs about it, I=E2=80=99ll change it.

=C2=A0


--089e01229e7eb62400050c166623-- From nobody Wed Jan 7 13:54:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812851A701A; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YmWmx9X9APS5; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5B91A6FF7; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:54:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.0.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150107215422.2872.42617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:54:22 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/Bb32f8SUdIm-nonFTOqQmr_4eME Cc: i2rs@ietf.org Subject: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture-08.txt X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 21:54:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to the Routing System Working Group of the IETF. Title : An Architecture for the Interface to the Routing System Authors : Alia Atlas Joel Halpern Susan Hares Dave Ward Thomas D. Nadeau Filename : draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture-08.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2015-01-07 Abstract: This document describes an architecture for a standard, programmatic interface for state transfer in and out of the Internet routing system. It describes the basic architecture, the components, and their interfaces with particular focus on those to be standardized as part of the Interface to Routing System (I2RS). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 7 14:27:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43091A1BA9; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:27:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UDxNsWoZIN4f; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFD01A1B84; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:27:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: IETF Announcement List X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.0.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150107222726.19665.3675.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 14:27:26 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2rs/V5EoUr4wBO8TdTmy1cuizE2r_a8 Cc: i2rs@ietf.org Subject: [i2rs] I2RS WG Virtual Interim Meetings, January 22, 2015; February 5, 2015; Februry 22, 2015; and March 5, 2015 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: i2rs@ietf.org List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 22:27:28 -0000 The I2RS WG virtual interim meeting scheduled for January 23 has been moved to January 22, 2015, from 10:00am-11:30am EST (1500 UTC). Additionally, the working group will hold virtual interim meetings on February 5, 2015, February 19, 2015, and March 5, 2015 from 10:00am-11:30am EST (1500 UTC). WebEx information will be posted to the I2RS mailing list. From nobody Wed Jan 7 21:00:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4BB1A8852 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 21:00:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Bst99W0BVti for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 21:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68F391A1A9D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 21:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BQZ73566; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 05:00:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:00:11 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.169]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 13:00:07 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Alia Atlas Thread-Topic: [i2rs] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 Thread-Index: AQHQKfs8QWTUSNGk70mqQBs1Hgz0Cpy1q5Ig Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:00:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8469CA8Fnkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Thu Jan 8 05:35:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F6011A8746 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.053 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.053 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VYlEpVXw9Dd3 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177DE1A8972 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.112.195.202; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:35:17 -0500 Message-ID: <02ca01d02b47$f1ec4510$d5c4cf30$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02CB_01D02B1E.091838E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdArRhNigfavM2jBQlmV/XisKyucgw== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' Subject: [i2rs] I2RS interim meeting X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 13:35:24 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02CB_01D02B1E.091838E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The I2RS WG will hold Interim #3 this morning at January 8th, 2014 at 10:00am - 11:30 am. ET The agenda and the proceedings can be found at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/08/i2rs/proceedings.html This meeting focuses on two architecture issues: a) Concerns security directorate's on the architecture document (5 questions), and b) updates to the traceability WG Document. Completion of the architecture work will help us prepare for our protocol work and a re-chartering effort to include yang modules. ============== webex: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mc8f9e812ff0dad1c580b3ae2d0edab94 Meeting number: 647 163 325 Meeting password: jeffprotofun Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 (toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 163 325 Etherpad for notes: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/i2rs-agenda-2015-Jan-8 ------=_NextPart_000_02CB_01D02B1E.091838E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The I2RS = WG will hold Interim  #3 this morning at  January 8th, 2014 at = 10:00am – 11:30 am. ET

 

The agenda = and the proceedings can be found at:

 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/08/i2rs/proceedi= ngs.html

 

This meeting focuses on two architecture issues: =

 a) Concerns security = directorate’s on the architecture document (5 questions), and =

 b) updates to the traceability = WG Document.   

 

Completion = of the architecture work will help us prepare for our

protocol work and a re-chartering effort to include = yang modules.

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

webex: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmc8f9e812ff0dad1c580b3ae2d0edab9= 4

 

Meeting number:  647 163 325

Meeting password: jeffprotofun

         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp; 

Join by = phone

         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    

1-877-668-4493   (toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number       = (US/Canada)

Access code: 647 163 = 325

 

Etherpad for notes:

http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/i2rs-agenda-2015-= Jan-8

------=_NextPart_000_02CB_01D02B1E.091838E0-- From nobody Thu Jan 8 05:58:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA761A1BEC for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:58:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4wc-AjxKbqI1 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91291A1BF6 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 05:58:50 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.112.195.202; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Qin Wu'" , "'Alia Atlas'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:58:44 -0500 Message-ID: <02ef01d02b4b$38a84dc0$a9f8e940$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02F0_01D02B21.4FD5A120" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEUwHM1aa4bF5+SAz05UVM6U2eBbQH1F6/IAYWXj2+eET/6QA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: i2rs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [i2rs] Shepherd review of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 13:58:54 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02F0_01D02B21.4FD5A120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Qin: =20 Thank you for reviewing the changes to the problem statement.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 12:00 AM To: Alia Atlas Cc: i2rs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [i2rs] Shepherd review of = draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 =20 Thanks for addressing my comments, your proposed changes work for me. =20 Regards! -Qin =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=887=E6=97=A5 = 5:54 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; = i2rs@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [i2rs] Shepherd review of = draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04 =20 Hi Qin, =20 Thanks for the review and taking on being document shepherd! =20 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Qin Wu wrote: Hi, authors =20 I have been selected as the document shepherd for this draft.=20 I think this is an important draft and support publication. =20 Having reviewed this document (v-04), I have a number of editorial = comments: =20 1. Section 2 said: =20 "The second critical aspect are meaningful data-models for information in the routing system and in a topology database . " =20 There is a typo in it, Suggested editorial change is: =E2=80=9CThe second critical aspect of I2RS is a set of meaningful = data-models for information in the routing system and in a topology database.=E2=80=9D =20 Agreed and fixed.=20 =20 2.Section 2 said: " The data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax that = is straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design = paradigm)." =20 By reading this sentence, it is not clear what is translated? data model or information from the routing system? =20 Suggested change: =20 The data models information sent in I2RS protocol should be able to be = translated into a concise transfer syntax that is straightforward for = applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm). =20 I've changed it slightly to "The data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax, sent = via the I2RS protocol, that is straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm)." =20 The data model is in YANG - but the transfer syntax might be xml or = google protobufs or... =20 3. Section 3, first paragraph said: "In addition, by having I2RS focus=20 initially on interfaces to the RIB layer (e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast RIB, policy-based routing), the ability to use routing indirection allows flexibility and functionality that can't be as easily obtained at the forwarding layer." =20 I think here we should highlight the downside of using existing = mechanism.=20 =20 Suggest the following replacement text:=20 =E2=80=9C With an I2RS interface to the RIB layer (e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast RIB, = policy-based routing), this provides flexibility and functionality for = route indirection of next-hops. This flexibility and functionality cannot be easily obtained at the = forwarding layer, or obtain via the relevant MIB modules (for example = RFC4292) which lack the necessary generality and flexibility. =E2=80=9C =20 I'm fine with not highlighting the downsides more clearly. I prefer = the existing text.=20 =20 4.Section 4, second paragraph said: " Detailed topological state that provides more information than the = current functional status is needed by applications; only the active paths or links are known versus those potentially available (e.g. administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers) to the routing topology. " Two sentences seems disconnected, suggested replacement text as below:=20 =E2=80=9C Detailed topological state which provides more information than the = current functional status is needed by applications. An example of this lack of detailed information is that only the active paths or links are known versus those potentially available paths (e.g. administratively down) or unknown paths (e.g. to peers or customers) to = the routing topology.=20 =E2=80=9C =20 Slightly word-smithed to: =20 " Detailed topological state that provides more information than the current functional status (e.g. active paths and links) is needed by applications. Examples of missing information include paths or link that are potentially available (e.g. administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers) to the routing topology." =20 =20 5. Section 8: Security consideration section Would it be better to add something to say this document is problem = statement draft Security considerations are not addressed in this problem statement only = document. Instead it will be addressed in some protocol documents in the = future. =20 Suggested Replacement for section 8: =E2=80=9C Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state installation = and extracting of detailed router state. The I2RS protocol and data = models will need to define security requirements such as such as = authorization and authentication levels. =20 This document as an informational problem statement does not have any = security considerations. =E2=80=9C =20 As you may have seen from my email exchange with Russ Housley, I've = updated the Security Considerations section to: =20 "Security is a key aspect of any protocol that allows state installation and extracting of detailed router state. The security considerations are discussed in = [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture].=20 Briefly, the I2RS Agent is assumed to have a separate authentication and authorization channel by which it can validate both the identity and the permissions associated with an I2RS Client. Mutual authentication between the I2RS Agent and I2RS Client is required. Different levels of integrity, confidentiality, and replay protection are relevant for different aspects of I2RS." =20 =20 =20 =20 6. Section 9 Reference [I-D.gredler-idr-ls-distribution] should be updated to = [I-D.ietf-idr-ls-distribution] =20 Fixed =20 Thanks again! Alia =20 =20 =20 Regards! -Qin _______________________________________________ i2rs mailing list i2rs@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs =20 ------=_NextPart_000_02F0_01D02B21.4FD5A120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Qin:

 

Thank you for reviewing the changes to the problem statement. =

 

Sue

 

From:= = i2rs [mailto:i2rs-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin = Wu
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 12:00 AM
To: = Alia Atlas
Cc: i2rs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [i2rs] Shepherd review of = draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04

 

Thanks for addressing my comments, your = proposed changes work for me.

 

Regards!

-Qin

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4= =BA=BA: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com] =
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2015=E5=B9=B41=E6=9C=887=E6=97=A5 5:54
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ie= tf-i2rs-problem-statement@tools.ietf.org; i2rs@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [i2rs] Shepherd review = of draft-ietf-i2rs-problem-statement-04

 

Hi = Qin,

 

Thanks for the review and taking on = being document shepherd!

 

On Wed, Dec = 17, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> = wrote:

Hi, = authors

 

I have been selected = as the document shepherd for this draft.

I think this is an = important draft and support publication.

 

Having reviewed this = document (v-04), I have a number of editorial comments:

 

1. Section 2 = said:

 

"The second = critical aspect are meaningful data-models for information

   in the = routing system and in a topology database .  "

 

There is a typo in = it, Suggested editorial change is:

=E2=80=9CThe second critical = aspect of I2RS is a set of meaningful data-models for

information in the = routing system and in a topology database.=E2=80=9D

 

Agreed and = fixed. 

 

2.Section 2 = said:

" The data = models should translate into a concise transfer syntax that is = straightforward for applications to use (e.g., a Web Services design = paradigm)."

 

By reading this = sentence, it is not clear what is translated?

data model or = information from the routing system?

 

Suggested change: =  

The data models = information sent in I2RS protocol should be able to be translated into a = concise transfer syntax that is straightforward for applications to use = (e.g., a Web Services design paradigm).

 

I've = changed it slightly to

"The = data models should translate into a concise transfer syntax, sent = via

  the I2RS protocol, that is = straightforward for applications to

  use = (e.g., a Web Services design = paradigm)."

  

The = data model is in YANG - but the transfer syntax might be xml or google = protobufs or...

 

3. Section 3, first = paragraph said:

"In addition, by = having I2RS focus

   = initially on interfaces to the RIB layer (e.g.  RIB, LIB, = multicast

   RIB, = policy-based routing), the ability to use routing = indirection

   allows = flexibility and functionality that can't be as easily = obtained

   at the = forwarding layer."

 

I think here we = should highlight the downside of using existing mechanism.

 

Suggest the following = replacement text:

=E2=80=9C

With an I2RS = interface to the RIB layer  (e.g. RIB, LIB, multicast RIB, = policy-based routing), this provides flexibility and functionality for = route indirection of next-hops.

This flexibility and = functionality cannot be easily obtained at the forwarding layer, or = obtain via the relevant MIB modules  (for example RFC4292) which = lack the necessary generality and flexibility.

=E2=80=9C

 

I'm = fine with not highlighting the downsides more clearly.   I prefer = the existing text. 

 

4.Section 4, second = paragraph said:

" Detailed = topological state that provides more information than the = current

   = functional status is needed by applications; only the active paths = or

   links = are known versus those potentially available  (e.g.

   = administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or customers) to = the

   routing = topology. "

Two sentences seems = disconnected, suggested replacement text as below:

=E2=80=9C

Detailed topological = state which provides more information than the current

functional status is = needed by applications. An example of this

lack of detailed = information is that only the active paths or

links are known = versus those potentially available paths (e.g.

administratively = down) or unknown paths (e.g. to peers or customers) to the

routing topology. =

=E2=80=9C

 

Slightly word-smithed = to:

 

" Detailed topological state = that provides more information

  =     than the current functional status (e.g. active paths and = links)

      is needed by = applications.  Examples of missing = information

      include paths = or link that are potentially available = (e.g.

      = administratively down) or unknown (e.g. to peers or = customers)

      to the routing = topology."

 

 

5. Section 8: = Security consideration section

Would it be better to = add something to say this document is problem statement = draft

Security = considerations are not addressed in this problem statement only = document. Instead it will be addressed in some protocol documents in the = future.

 

Suggested Replacement = for section 8:

=E2=80=9C

Security is a key = aspect of any  protocol that allows state installation and = extracting of detailed router state. The I2RS protocol and data models = will need to define security requirements such as such as authorization = and authentication levels.

 

This document as an = informational problem statement does not have any security = considerations.

=E2=80=9C

 

As = you may have seen from my email exchange with Russ Housley, I've updated = the Security Considerations

section = to:

 

"Security is a key aspect of = any protocol that allows state

  =     installation and extracting of detailed router = state.  The

  =     security considerations are discussed in = [draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture]. 

  =     Briefly, the I2RS Agent

  =     is assumed to have a separate authentication and = authorization

      channel by = which it can validate both the identity and = the

      permissions = associated with an I2RS Client.  = Mutual

      authentication = between the I2RS Agent and I2RS Client = is

      = required.  Different levels of integrity, confidentiality, = and

      replay = protection are relevant for different aspects of = I2RS."

 

 

 

 

6. Section = 9

Reference  = [I-D.gredler-idr-ls-distribution] should be updated to  = [I-D.ietf-idr-ls-distribution]

 

Fixed

 

Thanks = again!

Alia

 

 

 

Regards!

-Qin

=


________________________________= _______________
i2rs mailing list
i2rs@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs

 

------=_NextPart_000_02F0_01D02B21.4FD5A120-- From nobody Thu Jan 8 08:25:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DDA1A875D for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:25:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id joKYZXR_dnVv for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085891A8756 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A9D3EC187; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 11:25:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 11:25:30 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: i2rs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150108162530.GA459@pfrc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: [i2rs] Draft minutes for January 8, 2015 interim X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 16:25:32 -0000 I2RS interim 2014-01-08 Attendees: Alexander Clemm Alia Atlas Amit Dass Chodorek ? Dean Bogdanovic Dhruv Doty Don Fedyk Gonzalo Salgueiro Ignas Bagdonas Jeff Haas Jie Dong Joe Clark Jürgen Schönwälder Sriganesh Kini Susan Hares ----- Document status and design teams Need to review security directorate feedback on architecture. Need to get the documents to the Joe will be giving us an update on the traceability document. Sue will provide rib-info model update. No update ready for today. Problem statement: received directorate feedbacks - that has been integrated and will be sent out shortly. Architecture draft: small comments from various people, integrated, but need to address security directorate comments. Charter needs to be revised after problem statements and architecture drafts. ----- Security issues: Questions [slides] Ignas: On Q1 next steps - are you talking about general protocol requirements or just security review comments? Sue: These are working group decisions. Need to look at netconf or restconf with features added to either. Ignas: The way I read the security directorate comments is that they are concerned about slightly different things. Not netconf, etc. Separate signaling protocol, they're concerned about the transport issues. Sue: You think they may be asking about the content of the protocol? Ignas: Not that missed something. Two orthogonal aspects. Restconf can run over TCP and others. Security directorate is asking about transport security. Jeff: we’re providing requirements for what we need; see restconf/netconf transport requirements. Ignas: They’re asking about authentication requirements. Jeff: Think this is covered still in the protocols in question. Sue: Can ask the security reviewer what they meant. Q2 Validation credential of second ID. Sue: Is everyone comfortable with secondary ID as opaque string? Joe Clark: Updated traceability draft to cover this as "actor ID". Agent may validate that a client can use a given opaque string, but not part of the authentication protocol. Alia: Secondary identifier just for troubleshooting. If agent is acting as broker, there was concern we wouldn't have enough information for that troubleshooting. Sriganesh: Alia, to simplify troubleshooting or enable? Still could do this based on agent IDs. Alia: Simplify it. Sriganesh: Need more explanation of what we mean by opaque? Operating on it at the agent? Treating each client separately. Alia: Opaque in terms of no understanding of what's inside. No decisions. Sriganesh: As long as we clarify that it's no decision making. Q3.1: Security and asynchronous nature of i2rs protocol Alia: Last write wins - based on priorities not tied. Labels for transactions are not the default. Jeff: Feedback from NYC interim was that there isn't a clear mechanism for priorities at this time. Could be done with metadata. However, protocols would not use these for adjudicating whether one bit of config wins or not. Work required in protocols. Alia: This has been in architecture for a long time. Jeff: Just highlighting things that may hinder implementation. Checkpoint or transaction labels. Sue: It is unclear that the security directorate may not have read the priority stuff. Write responses - unclear about what the group thinks about labels? Jeff: NYC netmod interim indicated that transctions and validation may slow us down. We may need to avoid these to be fast? Dean: Restconf transactions are atomic. You can have multiple transactions within same session. Sue: Does that gives us the labeling that Alia wants? Dean: I think it does, but need to check. Alia: It's like a message-id. Need to get into the particular details about how a protocol can do it? Jeff: I don't think that async transactions existing yet. Alia: Alex, does pub-sub cover this? Alex: Don't think it's directly applicable. Configuration vs. subscription. Alia: When you send your write - subscribe to that response? Other clients may want to get those responses. Alex: Be able to refer to a particular subscription? Alia: Client does a write, subscribe to a notification for a particular response. Second client may want to get those responses as well. Alex: Need to discuss this requirement. If we want to apply this to configuration changes, that's another mechanism. We were going after operational data. Jeff: Could you make sure to point out in the mailing list where the requirement is for async writes for config state? I think the subscription requirements are clear. Alia: Ok. Sue: Haven't heard of any restconf/netconf protocol checkpoints Jeff: Don't think it's spelled out. Would slow us down. Alia: No, checkpoints are not in arch. Not even transactions. Just message-ids. Dean: In restconf, uses HTTP methods - states actions we're doing. POST is atomic. Multi-message transaction? Alia: No, only single message in transaction. Dean: In restconf, can only be read or write, not both. Ephemeral Jeff: There is no indication that a discontinuity has happened. We may need this to help with restart of agent. Alia: Just need to get this into the protocol. Collisions From nobody Thu Jan 8 12:12:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D2E1A00DC for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:12:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V6eC2zrk5-fx for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9471ACC86 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:12:22 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.112.195.202; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 15:12:18 -0500 Message-ID: <02bc01d02b7f$67984de0$36c8e9a0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02BD_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdArf0Osastjd2QfSneS3cLLc7ng1Q== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' Subject: [i2rs] Minutes of January 8th interim X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 20:12:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02BE_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0" ------=_NextPart_001_02BE_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 This is a resend of Jeff=92s minutes for today=92s interim.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 2RS interim 2014-01-08 =20 Attendees: Jeff Haas Susan Hares Chodorek ? Dean Bogdanovic Ignas Bagdonas Dhruv Doty Amit Dass Don Fedyk Joe Clark Gonzalo Salgueiro Sriganesh Kini J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder Jie Dong Alexander Clemm Alia Atlas =20 =97=97=97 =20 Document status and design teams =20 Need to review security directorate feedback on architecture. Need to get the documents to the=20 =20 Joe will be giving us an update on the traceability document. Sue will provide rib-info model update. No update ready for today. =20 Problem statement: received directorate feedbacks - that has been = integrated and will be sent out shortly. =20 Architecture draft: small comments from various people, integrated, but = need to address security directorate comments. =20 Charter needs to be revised after problem statements and architecture drafts. =20 =20 Security issues: Questions [slides] =20 Ignas: On Q1 next steps - are you talking about general protocol requirements or just security review comments? Sue: These are working group decisions. Need to look at netconf or = restconf with features added to either. =20 Ignas: The way I read the security directorate comments is that they are concerned about slightly different things. Not netconf, etc. Separate signaling protocol, they are concerned about the transport issues. Sue: You think they may be asking about the content of the protocol? Ignas: Not that missed something. Two orthogonal aspects. Restconf can = run over TCP and others. Security directorate is asking about transport security. Jeff: we are providing requirements for what we need; see = restconf/netconf transport requirements. Ignas: They are asking about authentication requirements. Jeff: Think this is covered still in the protocols in question. Sue: Can ask the security reviewer what they meant. =20 Q2 Validation credential of second ID. Sue: Is everyone comfortable with secondary ID as opaque string? Joe Clark: Updated traceability draft to cover this as =93actor ID=94. = Agent may validate that a client can use a given opaque string, but not part = of the authentication protocol. Alia: Secondary identifier just for troubleshooting. If agent is acting = as broker, there was concern we wouldn=92t have enough information for that troubleshooting. Sriganesh: Alia, to simplify troubleshooting or enable? Still could do = this based on agent IDs. Alia: Simplify it. Sriganesh: Need more explanation of what we mean by opaque? Operating on = it at the agent? Treating each client separately. Alia: Opaque in terms of no understanding of what=92s inside. No = decisions. Sriganesh: As long as we clarify that it=92s no decision making. =20 Q3.1: Security and asynchronous nature of i2rs protocol Alia: Last write wins - based on priorities not tied. Labels for transactions are not the default. Jeff: Feedback from NYC interim was that there is not a clear mechanism = for priorities at this time. Could be done with metadata. However, = protocols would not use these for adjudicating whether one bit of config wins or = not. Work required in protocols. Alia: This has been in architecture for a long time. Jeff: Just highlighting things that may hinder implementation. =20 Checkpoint or transaction labels. Sue: It is unclear that the security directorate may not have read the priority stuff. Write responses - unclear about what the group thinks = about labels? Jeff: NYC netmod interim indicated that transctions and validation may = slow us down. We may need to avoid these to be fast? Dean: Restconf transactions are atomic. You can have multiple = transactions within same session.=20 Sue: Does that gives us the labeling that Alia wants? Dean: I think it does, but need to check. Alia: It is like a message-id. Need to get into the particular details = about how a protocol can do it? Jeff: I don=92t think that async transactions existing yet. Alia: Alex, does pub-sub cover this? Alex: Do not think it is directly applicable. Configuration vs. subscription. Alia: When you send your write - subscribe to that response? Other = clients may want to get those responses. Alex: Be able to refer to a particular subscription? Alia: Client does a write, subscribe to a notification for a particular response. Second client may want to get those responses as well. Alex: Need to discuss this requirement. If we want to apply this to configuration changes, that is another mechanism. We were going after operational data. Jeff: Could you make sure to point out in the mailing list where the requirement is for async writes for config state? I think the = subscription requirements are clear. Alia: Ok. Sue: I have not heard of any restconf/netconf protocol checkpoints Jeff: Do not think it is spelled out. Would slow us down. Alia: No, checkpoints are not in arch. Not even transactions. Just message-ids. Dean: In restconf, uses HTTP methods - states actions we=92re doing. = POST is atomic. Multi-message transaction? Alia: No, only single message in transaction. Dean: In restconf, can only be read or write, not both. =20 =20 Ephemeral=20 Jeff: There is no indication that a discontinuity has happened. We may = need this to help with restart of agent. Alia: Just need to get this into the protocol. =20 Collisions =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_02BE_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

This is a = resend of Jeff’s minutes for today’s interim. =

 

Sue

 

2RS interim = 2014-01-08

 

Attendees:

Jeff = Haas

Susan Hares

Chodorek ?

Dean = Bogdanovic

Ignas = Bagdonas

Dhruv Doty

Amit Dass

Don = Fedyk

Joe Clark

Gonzalo Salgueiro

Sriganesh Kini

J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder

Jie Dong

Alexander = Clemm

Alia Atlas

 

———

 

Document = status and design teams

 

Need to = review security directorate feedback on architecture.

Need to get the documents to the

 

Joe will be = giving us an update on the traceability document.

Sue will provide rib-info model update.=A0 No update = ready for today.

 

Problem = statement: received directorate feedbacks - that has been integrated and = will be sent out shortly.

 

Architecture = draft: small comments from various people, integrated, but need to = address security directorate comments.=A0

Charter needs to be revised after problem statements = and architecture drafts.

 

 

Security = issues:

Questions = [slides]

 

Ignas: On Q1 next steps - are you talking about = general protocol requirements or just security review = comments?

Sue: These are working = group decisions.=A0 Need to look at netconf or restconf with features = added to either.=A0

Ignas: The way I = read the security directorate comments is that they are concerned about = slightly different things. Not netconf, etc. Separate signaling = protocol, they are concerned about the transport = issues.

Sue: You think they may be = asking about the content of the protocol?

Ignas: Not that missed something. Two orthogonal = aspects. Restconf can run over TCP and others. Security directorate is = asking about transport security.

Jeff: we are providing requirements for what we need; = see restconf/netconf transport requirements.

Ignas: They are asking about authentication = requirements.

Jeff: Think this is = covered still in the protocols in question.

Sue: Can ask the security reviewer what they = meant.

 

Q2 Validation credential of second = ID.

Sue: Is everyone comfortable with = secondary ID as opaque string?

Joe = Clark: Updated traceability draft to cover this as “actor = ID”.=A0 Agent may validate that a client can use a given opaque = string, but not part of the authentication protocol.

Alia: Secondary identifier just for = troubleshooting.=A0 If agent is acting as broker, there was concern we = wouldn’t have enough information for that = troubleshooting.

Sriganesh: Alia, to = simplify troubleshooting or enable? Still could do this based on agent = IDs.

Alia: Simplify = it.

Sriganesh: Need more explanation = of what we mean by opaque? Operating on it at the agent? Treating each = client separately.

Alia: Opaque in = terms of no understanding of what’s inside.=A0 No = decisions.

Sriganesh: As long as we = clarify that it’s no decision making.

 

Q3.1: = Security and asynchronous nature of i2rs protocol

Alia: Last write wins - based on priorities not tied. = Labels for transactions are not the default.

Jeff: Feedback from NYC interim was that there is not = a clear mechanism for priorities at this time.=A0 Could be done with = metadata.=A0 However, protocols would not use these for adjudicating = whether one bit of config wins or not.=A0 Work required in = protocols.

Alia: This has been in = architecture for a long time.

Jeff: = Just highlighting things that may hinder = implementation.

 

Checkpoint = or transaction labels.

Sue: It is = unclear that the security directorate may not have read the priority = stuff.=A0 Write responses - unclear about what the group thinks about = labels?

Jeff: NYC netmod interim = indicated that transctions and validation may slow us down. We may need = to avoid these to be fast?

Dean: = Restconf transactions are atomic. You can have multiple transactions = within same session.

Sue: Does that = gives us the labeling that Alia wants?

Dean: I think it does, but need to = check.

Alia: It is like a message-id. = Need to get into the particular details about how a protocol can do = it?

Jeff: I don’t think that = async transactions existing yet.

Alia: Alex, does pub-sub cover this?

Alex: Do not think it is directly applicable. = Configuration vs. subscription.

Alia: = When you send your write - subscribe to that response? Other clients may = want to get those responses.

Alex: Be = able to refer to a particular subscription?

Alia: Client does a write, subscribe to a notification = for a particular response. Second client may want to get those responses = as well.

Alex: Need to discuss this = requirement. If we want to apply this to configuration changes, that is = another mechanism. We were going after operational = data.

Jeff: Could you make sure to = point out in the mailing list where the requirement is for async writes = for config state? I think the subscription requirements are = clear.

Alia: Ok.

Sue: I have not heard of any restconf/netconf protocol = checkpoints

Jeff: Do not think it is = spelled out. Would slow us down.

Alia: No, checkpoints are not in arch. Not even = transactions. Just message-ids.

Dean: = In restconf, uses HTTP methods - states actions we’re doing. POST = is atomic. Multi-message transaction?

Alia: No, only single message in = transaction.

Dean: In restconf, can = only be read or write, not both.

 

 

Ephemeral =

Jeff: There is no indication that a = discontinuity has happened. We may need this to help with restart of = agent.

Alia: Just need to get this = into the protocol.

 

Collisions

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_02BE_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="i2rs-interim-2015-01-08.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="i2rs-interim-2015-01-08.txt" I2RS interim 2014-01-08 Attendees: Jeff Haas Susan Hares Chodorek ? Dean Bogdanovic Ignas Bagdonas Dhruv Doty Amit Dass Don Fedyk Joe Clark Gonzalo Salgueiro Sriganesh Kini J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder Jie Dong Alexander Clemm Alia Atlas =E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Document status and design teams Need to review security directorate feedback on architecture. Need to get the documents to the=20 Joe will be giving us an update on the traceability document. Sue will provide rib-info model update. No update ready for today. Problem statement: received directorate feedbacks - that has been = integrated and will be sent out shortly. Architecture draft: small comments from various people, integrated, but = need to address security directorate comments. =20 Charter needs to be revised after problem statements and architecture = drafts. Security issues: Questions [slides] Ignas: On Q1 next steps - are you talking about general protocol = requirements or just security review comments? Sue: These are working group decisions. Need to look at netconf or = restconf with features added to either. =20 Ignas: The way I read the security directorate comments is that they are = concerned about slightly different things. Not netconf, etc. Separate = signaling protocol, they are concerned about the transport issues. Sue: You think they may be asking about the content of the protocol? Ignas: Not that missed something. Two orthogonal aspects. Restconf can = run over TCP and others. Security directorate is asking about transport = security. Jeff: we are providing requirements for what we need; see = restconf/netconf transport requirements. Ignas: They are asking about authentication requirements. Jeff: Think this is covered still in the protocols in question. Sue: Can ask the security reviewer what they meant. Q2 Validation credential of second ID. Sue: Is everyone comfortable with secondary ID as opaque string? Joe Clark: Updated traceability draft to cover this as =E2=80=9Cactor = ID=E2=80=9D. Agent may validate that a client can use a given opaque = string, but not part of the authentication protocol. Alia: Secondary identifier just for troubleshooting. If agent is acting = as broker, there was concern we wouldn=E2=80=99t have enough information = for that troubleshooting. Sriganesh: Alia, to simplify troubleshooting or enable? Still could do = this based on agent IDs. Alia: Simplify it. Sriganesh: Need more explanation of what we mean by opaque? Operating on = it at the agent? Treating each client separately. Alia: Opaque in terms of no understanding of what=E2=80=99s inside. No = decisions. Sriganesh: As long as we clarify that it=E2=80=99s no decision making. Q3.1: Security and asynchronous nature of i2rs protocol Alia: Last write wins - based on priorities not tied. Labels for = transactions are not the default. Jeff: Feedback from NYC interim was that there is not a clear mechanism = for priorities at this time. Could be done with metadata. However, = protocols would not use these for adjudicating whether one bit of config = wins or not. Work required in protocols. Alia: This has been in architecture for a long time. Jeff: Just highlighting things that may hinder implementation. Checkpoint or transaction labels. Sue: It is unclear that the security directorate may not have read the = priority stuff. Write responses - unclear about what the group thinks = about labels? Jeff: NYC netmod interim indicated that transctions and validation may = slow us down. We may need to avoid these to be fast? Dean: Restconf transactions are atomic. You can have multiple = transactions within same session.=20 Sue: Does that gives us the labeling that Alia wants? Dean: I think it does, but need to check. Alia: It is like a message-id. Need to get into the particular details = about how a protocol can do it? Jeff: I don=E2=80=99t think that async transactions existing yet. Alia: Alex, does pub-sub cover this? Alex: Do not think it is directly applicable. Configuration vs. = subscription. Alia: When you send your write - subscribe to that response? Other = clients may want to get those responses. Alex: Be able to refer to a particular subscription? Alia: Client does a write, subscribe to a notification for a particular = response. Second client may want to get those responses as well. Alex: Need to discuss this requirement. If we want to apply this to = configuration changes, that is another mechanism. We were going after = operational data. Jeff: Could you make sure to point out in the mailing list where the = requirement is for async writes for config state? I think the = subscription requirements are clear. Alia: Ok. Sue: I have not heard of any restconf/netconf protocol checkpoints Jeff: Do not think it is spelled out. Would slow us down. Alia: No, checkpoints are not in arch. Not even transactions. Just = message-ids. Dean: In restconf, uses HTTP methods - states actions we=E2=80=99re = doing. POST is atomic. Multi-message transaction? Alia: No, only single message in transaction. Dean: In restconf, can only be read or write, not both. Ephemeral=20 Jeff: There is no indication that a discontinuity has happened. We may = need this to help with restart of agent. Alia: Just need to get this into the protocol. Collisions ------=_NextPart_000_02BD_01D02B55.7EC6D9C0-- From nobody Thu Jan 8 14:53:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8F01A046D for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 14:53:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lFBtVEXSy7jq for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 14:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD411A00C5 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 14:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t08Mr3Pd030894; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 17:53:03 -0500 Message-ID: <54AF0A54.5050804@concordia.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:53:08 -0500 From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alia Atlas References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040107010908080204010800" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2015-01-08 17:53:04 EST Archived-At: Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:53:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040107010908080204010800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alia, No, I don't have anything specific---my expertise is not in software evaluation. I was just concerned that Jeffrey's comment implied that 3 Routing Area directors could solve this problem. Your response has assured me that some mechanisms are in place, and (given that fact) I assume that these mechanisms will be refined over time if the need arises. :-) Bill On 06/01/2015 2:02 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, William Atwood > > wrote: > > > > On 06/01/2015 1:03 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > >> A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more > line YANG program? > > I think your comment is confused, but please also see the > discussion on > > ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area > director. :-) > > I don't think this comment is confused at all. It is clear to me that > the present approach to IETF last call at the IESG level (i.e., > all the > Area Directors reading the document) is not going to be particularly > effective when the I-D consists of 1000 lines of Yang code. This is > quite independent of the number of RTG area directors... > > I believe that the WG chairs who are involved in Yang models at any > level need to signal this issue to their Area Director(s), if this has > not already been done. > > > Do you have recommendations on how the reviews should be done? Obviously, > verifying that the YANG models compile and having the WG and YANG experts > do a review is quite useful and important beforehand. The trick with > this is > frequently getting the semantics and details right; obviously, we're > all used to > doing long code reviews too. > > Regards, > Alia > > > > Bill > > -- > Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 > > Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 > > Department of Computer Science > and Software Engineering > Concordia University EV 3.185 > email:william.atwood@concordia.ca > > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West > http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill > > Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > > -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 --------------040107010908080204010800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alia,

No, I don't have anything specific---my expertise is not in software evaluation.  I was just concerned that Jeffrey's comment implied that 3 Routing Area directors could solve this problem.

Your response has assured me that some mechanisms are in place, and (given that fact) I assume that these mechanisms will be refined over time if the need arises.  :-)

  Bill


On 06/01/2015 2:02 PM, Alia Atlas wrote:
Hi Bill,

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, William Atwood <william.atwood@concordia.ca> wrote:


On 06/01/2015 1:03 PM, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
>> A followup question: how can IESG evaluate a thousand or more line YANG program?
> I think your comment is confused, but please also see the discussion on
> ietf@ietf.org regarding a third RTG area director. :-)

I don't think this comment is confused at all.  It is clear to me that
the present approach to IETF last call at the IESG level (i.e., all the
Area Directors reading the document) is not going to be particularly
effective when the I-D consists of 1000 lines of Yang code.  This is
quite independent of the number of RTG area directors...

I believe that the WG chairs who are involved in Yang models at any
level need to signal this issue to their Area Director(s), if this has
not already been done.

Do you have recommendations on how the reviews should be done?  Obviously,
verifying that the YANG models compile and having the WG and YANG experts
do a review is quite useful and important beforehand.   The trick with this is 
frequently getting the semantics and details right; obviously, we're all used to
doing long code reviews too.

Regards,
Alia 

 
  Bill

--
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8

_______________________________________________
i2rs mailing list
i2rs@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs


-- 
Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8
--------------040107010908080204010800-- From nobody Fri Jan 9 07:06:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A4E1A89B1 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 07:06:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2-iCZjr-OgA4 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 07:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1481A00E7 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 07:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 06D72C209; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 10:05:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 10:05:53 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: William Atwood Message-ID: <20150109150553.GK7224@pfrc> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> <54AF0A54.5050804@concordia.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <54AF0A54.5050804@concordia.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , Alia Atlas Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 15:06:00 -0000 On Thu, Jan 08, 2015 at 05:53:08PM -0500, William Atwood wrote: > No, I don't have anything specific---my expertise is not in software > evaluation. I was just concerned that Jeffrey's comment implied that 3 > Routing Area directors could solve this problem. Note that I didn't say that a third AD will solve this problem. I referred people to the discussion about the motivations for adding one. In general, document review in IETF should follow a well defined process similar to what is seen in many large software organizations: - Reviewed by those working on it. (Authors) - Reviewed by their peers. (Working Group) - Reviewed by targeted experts, especially for cross-area work. (Directorates) - Reviewed for big-picture architecture. (IESG) Where things have the appearance of breaking down is when there has been insufficient review at the lowest layers. WG chairs should not send along documents for directorate or AD review without having some certitude about the document being of high enough quality to do so. In project management parlance, they're the gatekeepers. Yang modules, and MIBs before them, have a few interesting issues that complicate the normal review process: - Modeling as a discipline is something that not everyone is good at. IETF tends to attract people who like working bits-on-the-wire, not management and operations front-ends. - The recognition and inherent rewards for participating in such models in IETF lacks quite the same level of prestige from many people's perspective. Basically, "it's not sexy". - Review of models requires not only the depth of experience in the thing being modeled, operations for that thing (which may not have practices if it is new) but also strong familiarity with the modeling language and its semantics. + Yang is new. That's going to cause some bumps as people learn. + As MIBs have demonstrated, sometimes it's less whether something is syntactically or semantically correct, it's whether it follows a best-practice style. Those styles are still evolving for Yang. If the above hold true, the likely fixes are: - Get many more people familiar with Yang. - Make sure as best practices evolve that they are rapidly and widely disseminated. (See rtg-yang-coord as one example.) - Provide the same level of prestige for doing this hard work as for doing a new protocol. "Egoboo"/"Karma" is a valid currency in volunteer run organizations such as ours, even though most of our membership tends to be sponsored via their jobs. -- Jeff From nobody Fri Jan 9 09:59:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B251A6F21 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 09:59:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eEAg_H4vGIjg for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 09:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CA381A009E for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 09:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id gd6so15845768lab.1 for ; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 09:59:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ci3CnJcgkIv4cwcg2oM56GnSn23SkdUwXwyg8TFiGZI=; b=F6UZmMJo42NcvkyoZ36MMnR6Ppz6gqBD76BpFkzubpcIjXHl1ad6miykTFvG5+sUcQ K49bCschQ1J71SPYHPhrnxagBrPDiDD7h822xjS/KBI8vZIwcLRkxrnYgx2ObjYGUhGl czLVDwTItGHJmBsR0Px53J1vL2sw92ocamK1nkcV3htVTfgvx7rqycTgguhX6sL5HXXd jnGUlMVaoSpezeO56B2jUv+Yur2lLeB6M9OCzfUC0YNNomJ1mAXm6tZ19uwSdNTX9iky BF3JkJTEuRC6VSmJvU2nQAxgWyPD4I0xtGAVq8t2U8TXnSWYQhkbqEOhbxiIdv9Y6iC/ 3a9A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.12.134 with SMTP id y6mr23036007lbb.34.1420826368939; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 09:59:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.63.51 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Jan 2015 09:59:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20150109150553.GK7224@pfrc> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D2C6A3784@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20150105211236.GF7224@pfrc> <20150106180328.GI7224@pfrc> <54AC2DC6.1090001@concordia.ca> <54AF0A54.5050804@concordia.ca> <20150109150553.GK7224@pfrc> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 11:59:28 -0600 Message-ID: From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Jeffrey Haas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , William Atwood , Alia Atlas Subject: Re: [i2rs] Regarding Multicast Use Cases for I2RS X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 17:59:32 -0000 On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 9:05 AM, Jeffrey Haas wrote: > On Thu, Jan 08, 2015 at 05:53:08PM -0500, William Atwood wrote: >> No, I don't have anything specific---my expertise is not in software >> evaluation. I was just concerned that Jeffrey's comment implied that 3 >> Routing Area directors could solve this problem. > > Note that I didn't say that a third AD will solve this problem. I referred > people to the discussion about the motivations for adding one. > > In general, document review in IETF should follow a well defined process > similar to what is seen in many large software organizations: > - Reviewed by those working on it. (Authors) > - Reviewed by their peers. (Working Group) > - Reviewed by targeted experts, especially for cross-area work. > (Directorates) > - Reviewed for big-picture architecture. (IESG) > > Where things have the appearance of breaking down is when there has been > insufficient review at the lowest layers. WG chairs should not send along > documents for directorate or AD review without having some certitude about > the document being of high enough quality to do so. In project management > parlance, they're the gatekeepers. > > Yang modules, and MIBs before them, have a few interesting issues that > complicate the normal review process: > - Modeling as a discipline is something that not everyone is good at. IETF > tends to attract people who like working bits-on-the-wire, not management > and operations front-ends. > - The recognition and inherent rewards for participating in such models in > IETF lacks quite the same level of prestige from many people's > perspective. Basically, "it's not sexy". > - Review of models requires not only the depth of experience in the thing > being modeled, operations for that thing (which may not have practices if > it is new) but also strong familiarity with the modeling language and its > semantics. > + Yang is new. That's going to cause some bumps as people learn. > + As MIBs have demonstrated, sometimes it's less whether something is > syntactically or semantically correct, it's whether it follows a > best-practice style. Those styles are still evolving for Yang. > > If the above hold true, the likely fixes are: > - Get many more people familiar with Yang. > - Make sure as best practices evolve that they are rapidly and widely > disseminated. (See rtg-yang-coord as one example.) > - Provide the same level of prestige for doing this hard work as for doing a > new protocol. "Egoboo"/"Karma" is a valid currency in volunteer run > organizations such as ours, even though most of our membership tends to be > sponsored via their jobs. > I also would like to clarify that my mail was in no way against the Yang work being done in i2rs, I have great respect in the draft authors, they are doing great admirable work. Regards, Behcet > -- Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs From nobody Mon Jan 19 13:39:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967121B2C9C for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:39:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.654 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.654 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tlads12hoTKO for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273961B2C95 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:39:47 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.134.174.69; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:39:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00d601d03430$6f9eb150$4edc13f0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D03406.86C8A950" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA0LuFHOe6yqvmwRaWSkodWhkAhgA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , 'Alia Atlas' Subject: [i2rs] I2RS interim on 1/23/2015 at 10-11:15 ET X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:39:51 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D03406.86C8A950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I2RS will hold an interim on Friday, January 23, 2015 10:00 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) Meeting time 10:00am - 11:30am ET [Please note this is Friday 1/23/2014. All other I2RS meetings will be held on Thursdays from 10:00am - 11:30am] The agenda for the interim is: 1) Status - 5 minutes 2) Traceability (25 minutes) http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability 3) Pub-sub requirements (25 minutes) draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 - Join WebEx meeting https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mad8f08fd6e99add29c20f95eb18e1f0f Meeting number: 644 737 981 Meeting password: wgfunsue Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 644 737 981 ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D03406.86C8A950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

I2RS will = hold an interim on Friday, January 23, 2015  10:00 am  |  = Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)

Meeting time 10:00am – 11:30am ET =

 

[Please note this is Friday 1/23/2014.  All other = I2RS meetings will be held on Thursdays from 10:00am – 11:30am] =

 

The agenda for the interim is:

 

1)      = Status – 5 minutes

2)      = Traceability  (25 minutes) =

htt= p://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability<= /span>

 

3)      = Pub-sub requirements (25 minutes) =

draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 – =

 

 

Join WebEx = meeting

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmad8f08fd6e99a= dd29c20f95eb18e1f0f

 

Meeting = number:            644 = 737 981

Meeting = password:         = wgfunsue

 

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: = 644 737 981

 

------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01D03406.86C8A950-- From nobody Tue Jan 20 15:12:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA831A007A for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:12:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qULTFz9TpSLM for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C5E1A0078 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:12:23 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=166.171.248.181; Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:14:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3ym9ylbxgink6h7lsujgfrk9.1421795693783@email.android.com> Importance: normal From: Sue Hares To: i2rs@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.android.email_409342916024610" X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: Jeffrey Haas , Alia Atlas Subject: [i2rs] I2rs meeting will be held on 1/22 instead of 1/23. X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:12:25 -0000 ----_com.android.email_409342916024610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsOgoKQW5keSdzIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGdvdCBtZSB0byBjaGVjayB3aXRoIGlldGYgcnVsZXMu IMKgVGhlIGludGVyaW0gZGF0ZSBtdXN0IGJlIDEvMjIvMjAxNS4gwqBJdCB3aWxsIGJlIGhlbGQg ZnJvbSAxMC0xMTozMCBhbSBFVC4gwqAKClRoYW5rcyB0byBBbmR5IGZvciBhc2tpbmcgdGhpcyBx dWVzdGlvbi4KClN1ZQoKClNlbnQgdmlhIHRoZSBTYW1zdW5nIEdBTEFYWSBTwq40LCBhbiBBVCZU IDRHIExURSBzbWFydHBob25l ----_com.android.email_409342916024610 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0 L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9VVRGLTgiPjwvaGVhZD48Ym9keSA+PGRpdj5IaSBhbGw6PC9kaXY+PGRp dj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5BbmR5J3MgcXVlc3Rpb24gZ290IG1lIHRvIGNoZWNrIHdpdGggaWV0 ZiBydWxlcy4gJm5ic3A7VGhlIGludGVyaW0gZGF0ZSBtdXN0IGJlIDEvMjIvMjAxNS4gJm5ic3A7 SXQgd2lsbCBiZSBoZWxkIGZyb20gMTAtMTE6MzAgYW0gRVQuICZuYnNwOzwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJy PjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VGhhbmtzIHRvIEFuZHkgZm9yIGFza2luZyB0aGlzIHF1ZXN0aW9uLjwvZGl2 PjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+U3VlPC9kaXY+PGRpdj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj48YnI+PC9k aXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6OXB4O2NvbG9yOiM1NzU3NTciPlNlbnQgdmlh IHRoZSBTYW1zdW5nIEdBTEFYWSBTwq40LCBhbiBBVCZhbXA7VCA0RyBMVEUgc21hcnRwaG9uZTwv ZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYm9keT48L2h0bWw+ ----_com.android.email_409342916024610-- From nobody Wed Jan 21 08:15:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDAE1A1AF1 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:15:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x1AAVyU_YRcZ for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234401A1AE7 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:15:08 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.240.212.81; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 11:15:02 -0500 Message-ID: <019501d03595$69e3a430$3daaec90$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0196_01D0356B.810E3870" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA1lVq06aFVciSvTtKHxk5XC31P2w== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , 'Alia Atlas' Subject: [i2rs] I2RS Interim 1/22/2015 Agenda and Webex X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 16:15:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01D0356B.810E3870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I2RS interim on 1/22 Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:00 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) | 1 hr 30 min Agenda: 1) Status (5 minutes) 2)Traceability (25 minutes) http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability 3) Pub-sub requirements (25 minutes) draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 - [Total time: 55 minutes] Join WebEx meeting https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=ma89cdfb97b73a0c5fcafc18dd9b3ee70 Meeting number: 647 204 811 Meeting password: jefffunlife Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 204 811 Toll-free calling restrictions ------=_NextPart_000_0196_01D0356B.810E3870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I2RS = interim on 1/22

Thursday, January 22, = 2015

10:00 am  |  Eastern = Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)  |  1 hr 30 min =

 

Agenda:

1) = Status (5 minutes)

2)Traceability (25 = minutes)

    http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability

 

3) Pub-sub = requirements (25 minutes)

draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 – =

 

[Total time: 55 minutes]

 

Join WebEx = meeting

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma89cdfb97b73a0c5fcaf= c18dd9b3ee70

 

Meeting = number:            647 = 204 811

Meeting = password:         = jefffunlife

 

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: = 647 204 811

Toll-free calling = restrictions

------=_NextPart_000_0196_01D0356B.810E3870-- From nobody Wed Jan 21 09:19:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFDF1A1B2E for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:19:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9vALTCUSl3L for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21C0C1A1B27 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB0D764; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id hnGeicamRVHb; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:18:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E013220034; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pHRJlkVxPI09; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518BD2002F; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B7DCD30E149B; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:19:07 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Susan Hares Message-ID: <20150121171907.GA33271@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Susan Hares , i2rs@ietf.org, 'Jeffrey Haas' References: <019501d03595$69e3a430$3daaec90$@ndzh.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <019501d03595$69e3a430$3daaec90$@ndzh.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , i2rs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [i2rs] I2RS Interim 1/22/2015 Agenda and Webex X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 17:19:15 -0000 Susan, I recall that at some point in time this interim was scheduled to discuss topology work. Will this topic be on the agenda on some future I2RS virtual interim? I know that some people not regularly following I2RS were interested in this particular topic and I pointed them to tomorrow's meeting (and I guess I have to send an update now, so I am asking whether I can point them already to another virtual interim). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jan 21 10:30:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7E31A1B6A for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:30:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.155 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.155 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmgulURV55Eg for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F971A1BCB for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:30:10 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=70.197.2.194; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:30:05 -0500 Message-ID: <002701d035a8$48050210$d80f0630$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01D0357E.5F314400" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA1qAEhm8glvu1DTMiilxcI41DPvQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' Subject: [i2rs] Design Teams on the I2RS Wiki X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:30:22 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01D0357E.5F314400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The I2RS design teams for the protocol independent RIB and the protocol independent Topology models have been formed. You can view the members of the RIB Model design team at: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/i2rs/trac/wiki/RIBDesignTeam The I2RS topology design team is at: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/i2rs/trac/wiki/TopologyDesignTeams If you would like to join either of these design teams, please send me a note (shares@ndzh.com). Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01D0357E.5F314400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The I2RS = design teams for the protocol independent RIB and the protocol = independent Topology models have been formed. 

 

You can view = the members of the RIB Model design team at:

 

http:= //trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/i2rs/trac/wiki/RIBDesignTeam

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

The I2RS = topology design team is at:

http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/i2rs/trac/wiki/TopologyDesignTeams

 

If you would like to join either of these design = teams, please send me a note (shares@ndzh.com).

 

Sue Hares =

------=_NextPart_000_0028_01D0357E.5F314400-- From nobody Wed Jan 21 18:14:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439081A00EF for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:14:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HOBCYizhnEby for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD181A00DF for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:14:50 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.240.212.81; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:14:40 -0500 Message-ID: <02b001d035e9$2e1c19b0$8a544d10$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02B1_01D035BF.45479850" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA16M97Un1AySSRQP2r6OLcbQZHsQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , Juergen Schoenwaelder Subject: [i2rs] Topic List for I2RS interims Before IETF 92 X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 02:14:52 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02B1_01D035BF.45479850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The topics for the interims prior to IETF are the following: * 1/23 - Traceability and pub/sub Document * 2/05 - RIB Models and Topology Drafts (Part 1) * 2/17 - Topology Drafts (Part 2) and Protocol discussion * 2/26 - I2RS Protocol Discussion * 3/05 - RIB Models and Topology Models The I2RS interims are held on these Thursdays from 10:00 - 11:30am ET. Please send feedback on this list of topics to the mail list or the chairs. Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_02B1_01D035BF.45479850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The topics for the interims prior to IETF = are the following:

  • 1/23 - Traceability and = pub/sub Document
  • 2/05 - RIB Models and = Topology Drafts (Part 1)
  • 2/17 - Topology Drafts = (Part 2) and Protocol discussion
  • 2/26 – I2RS = Protocol Discussion
  • 3/05 – RIB Models = and Topology Models

The I2RS interims are held on these = Thursdays from 10:00 – 11:30am ET.

Please send feedback on this list of topics = to the mail list or the chairs.

Sue Hares

 

------=_NextPart_000_02B1_01D035BF.45479850-- From nobody Thu Jan 22 04:01:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B2E1ACC89 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 04:01:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fGqVZmYBvb4x for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 04:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471471ACC87 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 04:01:53 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.240.212.81; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:01:43 -0500 Message-ID: <063c01d0363b$30a08160$91e18420$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_063D_01D03611.47CC0000" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA2Os7mCgwyIGtwS2q5GG+8zVv+CQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' , Juergen Schoenwaelder Subject: Re: [i2rs] Topic List for I2RS interims Before IETF 92 - date correction X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:01:55 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_063D_01D03611.47CC0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note two of the dates on the earlier messages were in error. The dates below are all Thursdays. Sue From: Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 9:15 PM To: i2rs@ietf.org Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas'; Juergen Schoenwaelder (j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de) Subject: Topic List for I2RS interims Before IETF 92 The topics for the interims prior to IETF are the following: * 1/22 - Traceability and pub/sub Document * 2/05 - RIB Models and Topology Drafts (Part 1) * 2/19 - Topology Drafts (Part 2) and Protocol discussion * 2/26 - I2RS Protocol Discussion * 3/05 - RIB Models and Topology Models The I2RS interims are held on these Thursdays from 10:00 - 11:30am ET. Please send feedback on this list of topics to the mail list or the chairs. Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_063D_01D03611.47CC0000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please note two of the dates on the earlier = messages were in error.   The dates below are all Thursdays. =

 

Sue =

 

From:= = Susan Hares [mailto:shares@ndzh.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January = 21, 2015 9:15 PM
To: i2rs@ietf.org
Cc: 'Jeffrey = Haas'; Juergen Schoenwaelder = (j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de)
Subject: Topic List for = I2RS interims Before IETF 92

 

The topics for the interims prior to IETF = are the following:

  • 1/22 - Traceability and pub/sub = Document
  • 2/05 - RIB Models and = Topology Drafts (Part 1)
  • 2/19 - Topology Drafts (Part 2) and Protocol = discussion
  • 2/26 – I2RS = Protocol Discussion
  • 3/05 – RIB Models = and Topology Models

The I2RS interims are held on these = Thursdays from 10:00 – 11:30am ET.

Please send feedback on this list of topics = to the mail list or the chairs.

Sue Hares

 

------=_NextPart_000_063D_01D03611.47CC0000-- From nobody Thu Jan 22 06:16:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4201F1ACCE6 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 06:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jGuN1AZS1tUr for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 06:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78981A1AB6 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 06:16:30 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.240.212.81; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:16:26 -0500 Message-ID: <076201d0364e$026b4d80$0741e880$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0763_01D03624.19954580" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA2TfW+712i6xs3STWzwaPXk92avQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' Subject: [i2rs] I2RS interim held today at 10:00am ET/ 7:00am PT - Reminder X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 14:16:33 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0763_01D03624.19954580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I2RS interim on 1/22 Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:00 am | Eastern Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00) | 1 hr 30 min Agenda: 1) Status - 5 minutes 2) Traceability (25 minutes) draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability 3) Pub-sub requirements (25 minutes) draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 [Total time: 55 minutes] Join WebEx meeting https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=ma89cdfb97b73a0c5fcafc18dd9b3ee70 Meeting number: 647 204 811 Meeting password: jefffunlife Join by phone 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 204 811 Toll-free calling restrictions ------=_NextPart_000_0763_01D03624.19954580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I2RS = interim on 1/22

Thursday, January 22, = 2015

10:00 am  |  Eastern = Standard Time (New York, GMT-05:00)  |  1 hr 30 min =

 

Agenda:

 

1)         = ;   Status – 5 minutes

2)         = ;   Traceability  (25 minutes)

         &= nbsp;      draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability

3)         = ;   Pub-sub requirements (25 minutes)

         &= nbsp;   draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 =

 

[Total time: 55 minutes]

 

Join WebEx = meeting

https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dma89cdfb97b73a0c5fcaf= c18dd9b3ee70

 

 

Meeting = number:            647 = 204 811

Meeting = password:         = jefffunlife

 

Join by phone

1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number = (US/Canada)

1-650-479-3208 Call-in = toll number (US/Canada)

Access code: = 647 204 811

Toll-free calling = restrictions

------=_NextPart_000_0763_01D03624.19954580-- From nobody Thu Jan 22 07:40:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865B91ACCF2 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:40:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3CJaAxj2QKE for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0785.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:785]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F36A1A1A11 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB460.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.59.20; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:40:18 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.114]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.114]) with mapi id 15.01.0059.007; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:40:18 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "i2rs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) Thread-Index: AQHP/7jgzXhqicIORiS0QZAmPrmG45xf4e6AgAAMQoCAADuBAIBsNnqA Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:40:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141114103615.GA66784@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-dmarcaction-test: None x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(3005004);SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-forefront-prvs: 0464DBBBC4 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(199003)(479174004)(377454003)(51704005)(24454002)(189002)(76176999)(83506001)(97736003)(87936001)(46102003)(19580405001)(19580395003)(2656002)(101416001)(86362001)(93886004)(2501002)(50986999)(54356999)(122556002)(64706001)(66066001)(40100003)(2351001)(107886001)(92566002)(106116001)(110136001)(36756003)(99286002)(106356001)(105586002)(62966003)(450100001)(77156002)(2950100001)(102836002)(15975445007)(2900100001)(68736005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jan 2015 15:40:17.6701 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO1PR05MB460 Archived-At: Subject: [i2rs] FW: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:40:43 -0000 All, Here's the email I mentioned regarding various request/response patterns for NETCONF/RESTCONF. Cheers, Kent On 11/14/14, 5:17 PM, "Kent Watsen" wrote: > > > >Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, >and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following >use-cases: > > >1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively >frequently (ping) > >2) request for a large YANG config=3Dfalse list (retrieving interface >statistics) > >3) request for a large blob (file transfer) > >4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link >performance validation) > >5) subscription request on subtree to receive on-change data notifications >(config false also) > > > > >The solution to these may or may not overlap. For instance, consider the >following: > >Options for #1: >A) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server pushes data as it becomes >available >B) initial response returns handle with which client polls for incremental >results and cancels the request > >Options for #2: >A) pagination, multiple rpcs to return subsets of list >B) break response into blocks returned independently > >Options for #3: >A) use a file-transfer protocol like SCP, SFTP, or FTPS >B) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server stream data as it becomes >available >C) break response into blocks returned independently > >Options for #4: >A) initial response returns handle which the client uses to monitor >progress, receive the final result, and cancel the request > >Options for #5: >A) use netconf notifications as is >B) use a modified version of netconf notifications for higher throughput >C) direct responses into a queue that the client can poll > > > >Thoughts? Any additions? > > >Thanks, >Kent > > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Jan 22 10:26:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8260C1AD0A4 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:26:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nd9oFWvr0RhX for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B381ACEB1 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.240.212.81; From: "Susan Hares" To: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:26:44 -0500 Message-ID: <023401d03670$fa5c3b90$ef14b2b0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0235_01D03647.11863390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdA2cIhtrvcpZ0AFRqq+4zUV1RNT1w== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, i2rs-chairs@tools.ietf.org, Alia Atlas Subject: [i2rs] I2RS Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:26:51 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D03647.11863390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The slides and minutes for the I2RS meeting are at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/22/i2rs/proceedings.html An outgrowth of the meeting is that the working group will consider adoption of draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 next week. The draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability document will be revised, and enter into a WG LC call within 3 weeks. Please read and consider these documents. Sue Hares and Jeff Haas ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D03647.11863390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The slides = and minutes for the I2RS meeting are at:

 

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/22/i2rs/proceedi= ngs.html

 

An outgrowth of the meeting is that the working group = will consider adoption of

draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 next week. =

 

The draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability document will be =
revised, and enter into a WG LC call within 3 weeks.  =

 

Please read and consider these documents. =

 

Sue Hares and Jeff Haas =

------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D03647.11863390-- From nobody Sat Jan 24 11:58:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7AF1A0397 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3ZVOc7JZR5yh for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com (mail-lb0-f180.google.com [209.85.217.180]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37C0B1A19F6 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id b6so2491827lbj.11 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:17 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=T/U+/L5YX7JA348NUt9OAvO/vkDzKKuhqjWy95sDbx4=; b=YMGd5xg0dVsoGMGwEEbFuKH7g0CrKzmepLjjpcDONeoOxfoL6LpnEykjxO2XtsaWvy Q9ny9whyPssfvkY0py17yeKlnhM/B0CkGZzY3QD5bafSTlwdf1wyY105HQI1FB2z06+V j/CwamVJxEFTMx63a65Cs1VnYvEh5RtDi49J2t4WybtnKzmMxD7rCmdLdgMRBst4gH+y 5ADW00AnArZ90pfqrFFS4DIKQqKN7RCNtDTz8NeYr7QytVrwTALHowknbL8FIfIndRO9 uDWCQob/v0I86zbpv86KGtTgcsJhCcNVV6EhUgedxXvby88UZ2aVLMn2Voye6I8HdfCe tD8w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmnvKDeREBxW1OWyBcAZTqSwN2BHUZ6fyRA+QR42hMRCfNZ2f+MXsUGfR7j+Lc2nhur0ubv MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.85.11 with SMTP id d11mr13692967lbz.100.1422129497563; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.160.41 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <023401d03670$fa5c3b90$ef14b2b0$@ndzh.com> References: <023401d03670$fa5c3b90$ef14b2b0$@ndzh.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 11:58:17 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Susan Hares Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , "i2rs-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Alia Atlas , Adrian Farrel Subject: Re: [i2rs] I2RS Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 19:58:21 -0000 On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > The slides and minutes for the I2RS meeting are at: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/01/22/i2rs/proceedings.html > > > > An outgrowth of the meeting is that the working group will consider adoption > of > > draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 next week. > > > > The draft-ietf-i2rs-traceability document will be revised, and enter into a > WG LC call within 3 weeks. > > > > Please read and consider these documents. > > I strongly support adoption of draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 and draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00. However, I do not see anything really I2RS-specific about most of the requirements or any of the solution. This is useful for all types of system data modeled in YANG. We should only need one standard for pub/sub and push of YANG-defined data within NETCONF-style conceptual datastores. > > Sue Hares and Jeff Haas > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > i2rs mailing list > i2rs@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs > From nobody Mon Jan 26 10:15:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4563E1A82E2 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 10:15:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKyLHyamoZsl for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 10:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF5601ACD95 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 10:14:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=890; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1422296069; x=1423505669; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=iMMMe+jc7W+VZxGyRDDBbVy7CD9KIeUDVPwzUu45e68=; b=YpzHhke/TrO9To3s/YA7ykdkrLEjar+bzslpuzwnoB3EPuLpC0qBDuWC 6HTYCuOT/qoZkklDRa68kHbMhdxvt3sr1q/cla1Z2zTgyU/c04LYj3bVd Wvr9DPDh/xWaC9W2FMhxrDbX1Y3QiDknDYyDHOvEWR/AUi2/2Py7aXjxY c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A2BQDTgsZU/4ENJK1agwaBL8wuAoEaQwEBAQEBfYQMAQEBAwE6PwULAgEIIhQQMiUCBAENDROICQjUegEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARePRzEHgxaBEwEEjm6KNo1qgz0ig26CM34BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,470,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="117655790" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2015 18:14:29 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t0QIETX4000935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 26 Jan 2015 18:14:29 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.43]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 26 Jan 2015 12:14:29 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Andy Bierman , Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [i2rs] I2RS Interim Meeting Thread-Index: AQHQOBAYrvcpZ0AFRqq+4zUV1RNT15zSnPQA Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 18:14:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <023401d03670$fa5c3b90$ef14b2b0$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.55.189] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "i2rs@ietf.org" , "i2rs-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Alia Atlas , Adrian Farrel Subject: Re: [i2rs] I2RS Interim Meeting X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 18:15:21 -0000 > I strongly support adoption of draft-voit-i2rs-pub-sub-requirements-00 > and draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00. >=20 > However, I do not see anything really I2RS-specific about most of the > requirements or any of the solution. > This is useful for all types of system data modeled in YANG. >=20 > We should only need one standard for pub/sub and push of YANG-defined dat= a > within NETCONF-style conceptual datastores. Thanks Andy. We authors agree with your assessment. =20 We are hoping that domain requirements can be documented in specific WGs (l= ike the I2RS requirements). Other WGs could also document their requiremen= ts. Driven by these domain requirements, we are hoping to progress a singl= e technology specification in a TBD IETF WG willing to support the aggregat= e set of needs. Eric > > > > Sue Hares and Jeff Haas > > >=20 > Andy From nobody Tue Jan 27 15:44:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFD11A9167 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:44:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ol7i50eCp77I for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CF5A1A88B3 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOM49088; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:44:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.130) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:44:24 +0000 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml703-chm ([10.193.5.130]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:44:13 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: Susan Hares , "jhaas@pfrc.org" , "i2rs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Does I2RS charter include both the interface to Network Controller and the interface to devices (i.e. routers)? Thread-Index: AdA6iyeKSdo2AdXvRzuimrSC+NP/Rg== Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:44:13 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645EB6E7F@dfweml701-chm> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.157] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645EB6E7Fdfweml701chm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [i2rs] Does I2RS charter include both the interface to Network Controller and the interface to devices (i.e. routers)? X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:44:32 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645EB6E7Fdfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I2RS charter states: It is envisioned that users of the I2RS interfaces will be management applications, network controllers, and user applications that make specific demands on the network. This statement makes me believe that I2RS charter includes both the interfa= ce to Network Controller (i.e. North Bound Interface) and the Interface to = devices/routers (i.e. South Bound Interface). The interface to "Network Controller" should be more Service oriented, e.g.= allowing applications to indicate their desired features, enforcing a spe= cific QoS for some applications The interface to "devices (routers)" should be more functional oriented, e.= g. enabling ISIS on a specific port, or, etc. Is it reasonable for I2RS to have two distinct layers of interfaces? Linda Dunbar --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645EB6E7Fdfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I2RS charter states:

 

I= t is envisioned that users of the I2RS interfaces will be management
applications, network controllers, and user applications that make
specific demands on the network.

 

 

This statement makes me believe that I2RS charter in= cludes both the interface to Network Controller (i.e. North Bound Interface= ) and the Interface to devices/routers (i.e. South Bound Interface).

 

The interface to “Network Controller” sh= ould be more Service oriented, e.g. allowing applications to indicate their= desired features,  enforcing a specific QoS for some applications

 

The interface to “devices (routers)” sho= uld be more functional oriented, e.g. enabling ISIS on a specific port, or,= etc.

 

Is it reasonable for I2RS to have two distinct layer= s of interfaces?

 

Linda Dunbar

 

 

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F645EB6E7Fdfweml701chm_-- From nobody Tue Jan 27 17:51:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1141ACC80; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:51:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 46JbH7-z_9DI; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EC21ACC82; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:51:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.10.1.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150128015112.2004.19765.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:51:12 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: i2rs@ietf.org Subject: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05.txt X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 01:51:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to the Routing System Working Group of the IETF. Title : Routing Information Base Info Model Authors : Nitin Bahadur Ron Folkes Sriganesh Kini Jan Medved Filename : draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2015-01-27 Abstract: Routing and routing functions in enterprise and carrier networks are typically performed by network devices (routers and switches) using a routing information base (RIB). Protocols and configuration push data into the RIB and the RIB manager installs state into the hardware; for packet forwarding. This draft specifies an information model for the RIB to enable defining a standardized data model. Such a data model can be used to define an interface to the RIB from an entity that may even be external to the network device. This interface can be used to support new use-cases being defined by the IETF I2RS WG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jan 27 17:56:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2rs@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C101A1AFE for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:56:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id doYBvORwVSTO for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm33-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm33-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.238.198]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4145B1A1AB1 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:56:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1422410187; bh=eZ2abadTHHLaWk/Kwa2H5mDO8QERZqhRCUgUbaUr88A=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=AqH5lhzJ53nUMgZumcTCB56GZfaX21WGH/O/34q0r+YUa7EeoVe0JNjGfHEgrM9edGOKyg0PLvHxs/QhsQjEnKzuml49IfI7smTgdSig6lMQ4aBBEkTQLaWaYAa6w0OCYFHjPGQgB4Ji2hOmfd6+7e6T6BiT85flbi8vnR8xSpYZO5qAfoT8B/HWludWDTLxa2BDoAXY0VAb8xmOFLYRu53Wfvf//wDtZt0uq/T6sBDhHIb1Vg2mfocAMWpiTb+1Ry8AK3bIsBQUVEeXsZf2RRWOA7qT6UWTTlTrCZPzIJccOwYUDb/y46HUI98eI8gmhGFA3rs1W5Y8WcPxjfWY0Q== Received: from [66.196.81.170] by nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2015 01:56:27 -0000 Received: from [68.142.230.75] by tm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2015 01:56:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp232.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2015 01:56:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 440538.18408.bm@smtp232.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: bEcyP1UVM1nmfzna_SWWfxFeEGotHijgvK49nIZBtQ6UPjP bznpM18aw8nW3G8tItjhvvKLzx25gs4Ec5_fI867fPHK5V.n4avklUret8fj ukBPq3il6gdHS3LT96vGBLVo7Mdbe.JTGZspJJ7Py.1D61YChu76Eajr0wJ_ MKQz3Eb30E1U2Dij3N_U82Nu3XYTl1FkT.cclSzsKt7YqBIAIGC7peTDge.c cCapeUqgA7qQhIgAOo5ASuETmlZixJoKQlBt5qm_JbK2I4wn81rD45gHb_KC UViRbNbbw1VJl4d7UmYJ_GH_zCGA5J2ZrFVouUT4TDt9wDn2uuJJ2oCiqevh LCs7lvadBqOC14G__LDguXNyIy43DWunrAc90QfZOibp5hNjER_ofbHD1s0x X1_GQ6piFNLQmoTyQKaQM9CmWf_NaqHeYC6GVoLnuvlDMA9HBPhvaNuMaRfG GdM1cEKyHu7y9o91kZWoeRn_wToOHlsyV.O.3IIC9i5FX16vqhULm7NWtS6S q5Ys81WY9lII3kjRI7b753PesejJ2k8oFyw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: jU6Na92swBBdqSRkLOL9Cp_LhHZgQAQoL10- User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:56:21 -0800 From: Nitin Bahadur To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05.txt References: <20150128015112.2004.19765.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150128015112.2004.19765.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [i2rs] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05.txt X-BeenThere: i2rs@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 01:56:30 -0000 This version of the draft adds some clarification text (Section 6.1) and more usage examples (Section 7.2.6)=8A.based on offline conversations with Lixing. Thanks Nitin On 1/27/15, 5:51 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > This draft is a work item of the Interface to the Routing System Working >Group of the IETF. > > Title : Routing Information Base Info Model > Authors : Nitin Bahadur > Ron Folkes > Sriganesh Kini > Jan Medved > Filename : draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05.txt > Pages : 26 > Date : 2015-01-27 > >Abstract: > Routing and routing functions in enterprise and carrier networks are > typically performed by network devices (routers and switches) using a > routing information base (RIB). Protocols and configuration push > data into the RIB and the RIB manager installs state into the > hardware; for packet forwarding. This draft specifies an information > model for the RIB to enable defining a standardized data model. Such > a data model can be used to define an interface to the RIB from an > entity that may even be external to the network device. This > interface can be used to support new use-cases being defined by the > IETF I2RS WG. > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model/ > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-05 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >_______________________________________________ >i2rs mailing list >i2rs@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs