From nobody Tue Jul 21 04:55:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D180F1A046D; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:50:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8G5dK8_4C4wO; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB071A0419; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: "IETF Announcement List" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.1.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150721115025.12032.46713.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:50:25 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:55:40 -0700 Cc: petithug@acm.org, palmarti@cisco.com, ice@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] New Non-WG Mailing List: Ice -- Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:50:27 -0000 A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: ice@ietf.org Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=ice To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice Purpose: Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) is at the same time a NAT traversal technique, a multihomed address selection technique, and a dual stack address selection technique that works by including a multiplicity of IP addresses and ports in both the request and response messages of a connectivity establishment transaction. The IP addresses and ports provided by each side are paired and tested by peer-to-peer connectivity checks until one of these pair is selected to transport data. ICE was originally defined for the Offer-Answer (RFC 3264) protocol used by SIP and later XMPP, RTCWeb and other realtime media establishment protocol. But it is also used by HIP and RELOAD. For additional information, please contact the list administrators. From nobody Tue Jul 21 05:07:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E14F1A1A52 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:07:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wM_Kv1XXHUQC for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36BBE1A1A3B for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 05:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:ffff:6:ca0a:a9ff:fe2e:a4f6] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:ffff:6:ca0a:a9ff:fe2e:a4f6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E5F0204FA for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:07:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55AE35E8.2030306@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:07:04 +0200 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ice@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jbu2Ba6TuJhsQ4QG3gXLVniaIAru5HDqO" Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Draft charter X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:07:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --jbu2Ba6TuJhsQ4QG3gXLVniaIAru5HDqO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a draft for the ICE charter. I do not expect any of the text in t= his making it to the final charter, but we have to start somewhere. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------- Charter for Working Group Interactive Connectivity Establishment was published as RFC 5245 in April= 2010. Until recently the protocol had seen rather limited deployment. IC= E was slow to achieve widespread adoption, as other mechanisms were alrea= dy being used by the VoIP industry. This situation has changed drastically a= s ICE is mandatory to implement in WebRTC, a set of technologies developed at the IETF and W3C to standar= dize Real Time Communication on the Web. Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) is at the same time a NAT tr= aversal technique, a multihomed address selection technique, and a dual s= tack address selection technique that works by including a multiplicity o= f IP addresses and ports in both the request and response messages of a c= onnectivity establishment transaction. The IP addresses and ports provid= ed by each side are paired and tested by peer-to-peer connectivity checks= until one of these pair is selected to transport data. ICE was originally defined for the Offer-Answer (RFC 3264) protocol used = by SIP (RFC 3261) and later XMPP (XEP-0176), RTSP (draft-ietf-mmusic-rtsp= -nat), RTCWeb (draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep) and other realtime media establish= ment protocol. But it is also used by non-realtime media protocols, like= HIP (RFC 5770) and RELOAD (RFC 6940). The goal of the ICE Working Group is to consolidate the various initiativ= es to update ICE to make it more suitable for the WebRTC environment but = also to all the current usages of ICE. The Working Group will closely co= ordinate with the appropriate Working Groups, including RTCWEB, MMUSIC, T= RAM, MIF, HIP and P2PSIP. --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --jbu2Ba6TuJhsQ4QG3gXLVniaIAru5HDqO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVrjXoAAoJECnERZXWan7EP4UP/0kxIvXnr8MY0CJYGg9qIC8h rTSD5whE6qEgRRodORhRlxkeyr2uy7m9/Ub635wDzSj8qXnuwEeOUJ9hEnugJKaQ t7AjI+oZoJ/0VyttN+IEa1k8QVo+/Wd8Ja8qiwv0Fr8l/oXG8UC386+FrHSXJSZZ LeMNWENP96WILzcKQkAPkfl6dXym++ZXm9sUBYlrITyXp6anibPCC1OG0Brn2tLi FkLocwIHbEmc69YU73fzYTrt9MUkM8wno1Xq5fGiyudfYaP1iDhpDyCCTaXtDeHx /vlDI/vWv9Sj0q85mMI8qpHTlH3Iei6owXwdSjUjbbOj85dBQG+ehIwD/wsGQ8Tc Fp9Up/M3oYT1ebPgxE9ZkPB0WR5afAYZa7oiL8R1Mu6Rg0tfZWDWlp2irUKswcg7 hWY0KzLAPiMZl2GmwyVluFz1m5rdrwAwadFGxX4z6msgr/Yuc8vCzXNZ7A2tCnhx IJCMb2oefJIUdrNt2hk/kN/bY6sFoVG9JdjRMK1I+4Hro4fwae2x0MmditJpz3wz Z3NrOSGL8DAQB9ZHtRMxQ8VD6uJQ829oOW5OrTpumQY+f0NAAwbLbn8taLj5hK2A BAMJTB3oaz1/vI2KOflL90p/IJbKIVDFoH2S7W9zzJSWbIA6cPNHlEwKi+LkhjHh bC7HWItqQYTHU/7jhxfi =oqs2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jbu2Ba6TuJhsQ4QG3gXLVniaIAru5HDqO-- From nobody Thu Jul 23 02:50:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA0B1A1B77; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id STGu22GAZw1r; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA311A1A94; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:136:c617:feff:feb6:86ed] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:136:c617:feff:feb6:86ed]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F55F20AB7; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:45:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55B0B7C9.3050701@acm.org> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:45:45 +0200 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Westerlund , DISPATCH list , ice@ietf.org References: <55B06C88.7040601@acm.org> <55B09C2F.3070903@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <55B09C2F.3070903@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:50:44 -0700 Subject: Re: [Ice] [dispatch] Draft charter X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:45:50 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 07/23/2015 09:47 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > Hi, > > First of all creating an ICE WG is in my opinion a good idea. > However, I think this charter will need some work. The introduction > appears fine, but the work the group should do is poorly specified. I > think the charter need to be much more specific on what work the > group should do. Please write clearer goals for the work that is to > be done by the group. That was never meant as a complete charter, but as a minimal charter to which people can propose new and/or modified text. I am happy to serve as editor until someone better at it step in, but meanwhile sending text is probably the best way to iterate quickly towards an acceptable charter. Thanks. > > Cheers > > Magnus > > > Den 2015-07-23 kl. 06:24, skrev Marc Petit-Huguenin: >> >> Charter for Working Group >> >> Interactive Connectivity Establishment was published as RFC 5245 >> in April 2010. Until recently the protocol had seen rather limited >> deployment. ICE was slow to achieve widespread adoption, as other >> mechanisms were already being used by the VoIP industry. This >> situation has changed drastically as ICE is mandatory to implement >> in WebRTC, a set of technologies developed at the IETF and W3C to >> standardize Real Time Communication on the Web. >> >> Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) is at the same time a >> NAT traversal technique, a multihomed address selection technique, >> and a dual stack address selection technique that works by >> including a multiplicity of IP addresses and ports in both the >> request and response messages of a connectivity establishment >> transaction. The IP addresses and ports provided by each side are >> paired and tested by peer-to-peer connectivity checks until one of >> these pair is selected to transport data. >> >> ICE was originally defined for the Offer-Answer (RFC 3264) >> protocol used by SIP (RFC 3261) and later XMPP (XEP-0176), RTSP >> (draft-ietf-mmusic-rtsp-nat), RTCWeb (draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep) and >> other realtime media establishment protocol. But it is also used >> by non-realtime media protocols, like HIP (RFC 5770) and RELOAD >> (RFC 6940). >> >> The goal of the ICE Working Group is to consolidate the various >> initiatives to update ICE to make it more suitable for the WebRTC >> environment but also to all the current usages of ICE. The >> Working Group will closely coordinate with the appropriate Working >> Groups, including RTCWEB, MMUSIC, TRAM, MIF, HIP and P2PSIP. >> > > - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVsLfJAAoJECnERZXWan7EAdEP/A09FITttbku24Reylj2X8Y2 CgB+/5kPCxRIy65neyXTleZIG/gvsRExAVcBHlL86+zX8JJ2rz7MoceRtUVRqnrZ JeQPOUQ1y03WSUDWkvjoMjk7hWYGdnXR5pganHEPP+dPDAWxSEj+s8vaXk2Mau72 AYGeWBeVr99ofRFSlEUB2Sdgpv0xhTJD2tcyb/J9rD4pgxQ6pDgoImvGdH0s/hRQ ex7z/5VWdxNDXHF4ggjaAwXJ/EH21rZDzqv4nYmaH3SQMk0NqWdfH8DR3Pb0SNI+ 3qFAN9BZYe5m9mhaiWbgH8ATjsFEy4FG3KcyMqZZ5942Hf5KUSgSR4brE6w/kWm/ E8cZCuFIYW4tWUQci50EIryIvK/NwNwGo3p6h3GMO442my0k+aQiOjjF7pYb7rLC Hw9OcKRKfrAUu/rHbpKSqmNYJrhSFtOqaoQk8a4U8YPWMdEB/rDRY3nwGD4ppoHM 6JeOLezXmdNFoVcdHEqLiJmCw/Ets696wZCnY1fgw+pLPZM0YMuRo/kEjNAyhjlo sXNTJgOZ11U3Hh5+/on9Pjn3peK2r45ylFA7ncoKy8B01csFqVImxeBRTU9gEoU5 yTYHHnYUhA2OEF8wHbV5FyYFEXC8TcVfMzmchiFTjIYGynvoG23bRkSh4FNP8A9K 9Hl7a6LU4Q13ddYWSqk1 =JSOi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Thu Jul 23 04:46:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17F451A9150 for ; 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Thu, 23 Jul 2015 06:45:14 -0500 From: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" To: "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ice] [dispatch] Draft charter Thread-Index: AQHQxS0OYWaOq3vc5kiwQRhNTTvRQp3pQ4gA Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:45:13 +0000 Message-ID: <7FA251ED-64F4-4A26-B409-691DC80154F3@cisco.com> References: <55B06C88.7040601@acm.org> <55B09C2F.3070903@ericsson.com> <55B0B7C9.3050701@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <55B0B7C9.3050701@acm.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.95.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <29F5024067F9EE4EA4ACA75BC1F38917@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [dispatch] Draft charter X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:46:37 -0000 SGksDQoNClJlbW92ZWQgZGlzcGF0Y2ggdG8gYXZvaWQgY3Jvc3MgcG9zdGluZyB3aGlsZSBkaXNj dXNzaW5nIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyLiBOZWVkIHRvIGxvb3AgdGhlbSBiYWNrIG9uY2UgdGhlIGNoYXJ0 ZXIgaXMgY2xvc2VyIHRvIGNvbXBsZXRpb24uDQoNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDA3LzIzLzIwMTUgMDk6NDcg QU0sIE1hZ251cyBXZXN0ZXJsdW5kIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gSGksDQo+PiANCj4+IEZpcnN0IG9mIGFs bCBjcmVhdGluZyBhbiBJQ0UgV0cgaXMgaW4gbXkgb3BpbmlvbiBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYS4NCg0KQ2Fy ZSB0byBlbGFib3JhdGUgb24gd2h5PyBBbnl0aGluZyB0aGF0IGNhbiBiZSBkb25lIHRvIGhlbHAg ZWFzZSBhbnkgd29ycmllcz8NCg0KRHVyaW5nIGRpc3BhdGNoIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIHdvcnJ5IHJl Z2FyZGluZyBTRFAgcGFydHMgb2YgdGhlIHB1c2xlLCBidXQgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBsaWtlbHkgc3Rh eSBpbiBNTVVTSUMuIEFueSBuZXcgSUNFIHdvcmtncm91cCBhbmQgTU1VU0lDIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUg dmVyeSBzeW5jZWQgaW4gdGhhdCBhcmVhLg0KDQoNCj4+IEhvd2V2ZXIsIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBj aGFydGVyIHdpbGwgbmVlZCBzb21lIHdvcmsuIFRoZSBpbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24NCj4+IGFwcGVhcnMg ZmluZSwgYnV0IHRoZSB3b3JrIHRoZSBncm91cCBzaG91bGQgZG8gaXMgcG9vcmx5IHNwZWNpZmll ZC4gSQ0KPj4gdGhpbmsgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBtdWNoIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lmaWMg b24gd2hhdCB3b3JrIHRoZQ0KPj4gZ3JvdXAgc2hvdWxkIGRvLiBQbGVhc2Ugd3JpdGUgY2xlYXJl ciBnb2FscyBmb3IgdGhlIHdvcmsgdGhhdCBpcyB0bw0KPj4gYmUgZG9uZSBieSB0aGUgZ3JvdXAu DQo+IA0KPiBUaGF0IHdhcyBuZXZlciBtZWFudCBhcyBhIGNvbXBsZXRlIGNoYXJ0ZXIsIGJ1dCBh cyBhIG1pbmltYWwgY2hhcnRlciB0byB3aGljaCBwZW9wbGUgY2FuIHByb3Bvc2UgbmV3IGFuZC9v ciBtb2RpZmllZCB0ZXh0LiAgSSBhbSBoYXBweSB0byBzZXJ2ZSBhcyBlZGl0b3IgdW50aWwgc29t ZW9uZSBiZXR0ZXIgYXQgaXQgc3RlcCBpbiwgYnV0IG1lYW53aGlsZSBzZW5kaW5nIHRleHQgaXMg cHJvYmFibHkgdGhlIGJlc3Qgd2F5IHRvIGl0ZXJhdGUgcXVpY2tseSB0b3dhcmRzIGFuIGFjY2Vw dGFibGUgY2hhcnRlci4NCj4gDQpUaGF0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGV4Y2VsbGVudC4gTW9yZSBjb21tZW50 cyBiZWxvdy4gDQoNCltjdXRdDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gVGhlIGdvYWwgb2YgdGhlIElDRSBXb3JraW5n IEdyb3VwIGlzIHRvIGNvbnNvbGlkYXRlIHRoZSB2YXJpb3VzIA0KPj4+IGluaXRpYXRpdmVzIHRv IHVwZGF0ZSBJQ0UgdG8gbWFrZSBpdCBtb3JlIHN1aXRhYmxlIGZvciB0aGUgV2ViUlRDIA0KPj4+ IGVudmlyb25tZW50IGJ1dCBhbHNvIHRvIGFsbCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCB1c2FnZXMgb2YgSUNFLiAg VGhlDQo+Pj4gV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCB3aWxsIGNsb3NlbHkgY29vcmRpbmF0ZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBh cHByb3ByaWF0ZSBXb3JraW5nDQo+Pj4gR3JvdXBzLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgUlRDV0VCLCBNTVVTSUMs IFRSQU0sIE1JRiwgSElQIGFuZCBQMlBTSVAuDQo+Pj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KSSB0aGluayBsaXN0 aW5nIG90aGVyIFdHIGNhbiBiZSBhIGJpdCBkYW5nZXJvdXMuIFdlIHNob3VsZCBjb21lIHVwIHdp dGggc2VwYXJhdGUgZ29hbHMgaW5zdGVhZC4gRmluZGluZyBhbnkgY29ycmVjdCBXRyB0byBjb29w ZXJhdGUgd2l0aCBpcyBhbiDigJxpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbuKAnSBkZXRhaWwuIA0KDQpBIGZldyBr ZXkgcG9pbnRzIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIHNob3VsZCBjb250YWluOg0KDQotIEZvY3VzIG9uIGNvcmUg SUNFIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkuIChBdCBsZWFzdCBtYWtlIGl0IHBvc3NpYmxlIGZvciBvdGhlcnMg dG8gZGVmaW5lIGhvdyBjYW5kaWRhdGVzIGFyZSBleGNoYW5nZWQgZXRjLikNCi0gSW1wcm92aW5n IElDRS4gKFJldmlzaXRpbmcgb2xkIHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucywgcmVtb3ZpbmcgY29tcGxleGl0 eSwgc3BlZWRpbmcgdXAgdGhlIHByb2Nlc3MpDQotIE5ldyBmZWF0dXJlcy4gTmV3IGZ1bmN0aW9u YWxpdHkgYW5kIGFsbG93aW5nIG90aGVyIHByb3RvY29scyB0byBiZSB1c2VkIGJ5IElDRS4gKE1v YmlsaXR5IGFuZCBEVExTKQ0KLSBIZWxwIG90aGVyIFdHIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgSUNFIGFuZCBub3Qg YnJlYWsgSUNFIGJ5IGRvaW5nIOKAnHN0dXBpZOKAnSB0aGluZ3MuIA0KDQpOb3Qgc3VyZSBob3cg dGhlIGFib3ZlIHNob3VsZCBiZSB3cml0dGVuIGludG8gYSBjaGFydGVyLiAoSG93IHRvIHJlZHVj ZSBzY29wZSBidXQgc3RpbGwgYmVpbmcgZmFpcmx5IHdpZGUpLg0KDQouLS4NClDDpWwtRXJpaw0K DQoNCg== From nobody Thu Jul 23 05:06:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980611A92DC for ; 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h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mcMHo6sUWV/aTktgOAlNuKaPcz2XMBtcVvF5sviVkvc=; b=ws/qs2j7HH0Xo9xsKRsOjNcR3s6mSwSd3HoXfmb63QKYy1mG5E5gvA1/az5mVrZ/e0 iJbYJK2TmEVZkFZtJ6FmccQKyjQ0kUmfrkJ+RLjWqgmwgAkE9Q6g6cJfsVM7j8LFSHlx ll7KJ+HSTpYMRND7jxDjDJNO4mY55s9LukhblmyIvGUCpkHOPj80JVfBLSdaqFruTBgp XOXiZ9cr1PwqEaBhL4gpCazkxAlJQR1PjlhLiNj3D0jm87n5LkPEYOAIBhaImN5dMawa jFgc8C+zKC1chaljKzbYcKj3+feB/5yfuBe4UumYyK7FWX0n6DQqj4ssHlD/ELxSBSva B5yw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.158.42 with SMTP id wr10mr14643331wjb.81.1437653157203; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 05:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.140.71 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 05:05:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7FA251ED-64F4-4A26-B409-691DC80154F3@cisco.com> References: <55B06C88.7040601@acm.org> <55B09C2F.3070903@ericsson.com> <55B0B7C9.3050701@acm.org> <7FA251ED-64F4-4A26-B409-691DC80154F3@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:05:57 +0200 Message-ID: From: Suhas Nandakumar To: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c6478bed6d7051b89b5e7 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] [dispatch] Draft charter X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:06:05 -0000 --089e013c6478bed6d7051b89b5e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agree with Pal on the items and suggest removing the word about consolidation the work from other groups. It would be better to keep the charter focussed to problems to be solved with current ICE and new ICE extensions and just that. On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) < palmarti@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Removed dispatch to avoid cross posting while discussing the charter. Nee= d > to loop them back once the charter is closer to completion. > > > > > On 07/23/2015 09:47 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> First of all creating an ICE WG is in my opinion a good idea. > > Care to elaborate on why? Anything that can be done to help ease any > worries? > > During dispatch there was a worry regarding SDP parts of the pusle, but > that would likely stay in MMUSIC. Any new ICE workgroup and MMUSIC need t= o > be very synced in that area. > > > >> However, I think this charter will need some work. The introduction > >> appears fine, but the work the group should do is poorly specified. I > >> think the charter need to be much more specific on what work the > >> group should do. Please write clearer goals for the work that is to > >> be done by the group. > > > > That was never meant as a complete charter, but as a minimal charter to > which people can propose new and/or modified text. I am happy to serve a= s > editor until someone better at it step in, but meanwhile sending text is > probably the best way to iterate quickly towards an acceptable charter. > > > That would be excellent. More comments below. > > [cut] > >>> > >>> The goal of the ICE Working Group is to consolidate the various > >>> initiatives to update ICE to make it more suitable for the WebRTC > >>> environment but also to all the current usages of ICE. The > >>> Working Group will closely coordinate with the appropriate Working > >>> Groups, including RTCWEB, MMUSIC, TRAM, MIF, HIP and P2PSIP. > >>> > >> > >> > I think listing other WG can be a bit dangerous. We should come up with > separate goals instead. Finding any correct WG to cooperate with is an > =E2=80=9Cimplementation=E2=80=9D detail. > > A few key points the charter should contain: > > - Focus on core ICE functionality. (At least make it possible for others > to define how candidates are exchanged etc.) > - Improving ICE. (Revisiting old recommendations, removing complexity, > speeding up the process) > - New features. New functionality and allowing other protocols to be used > by ICE. (Mobility and DTLS) > - Help other WG understand ICE and not break ICE by doing =E2=80=9Cstupid= =E2=80=9D things. > > Not sure how the above should be written into a charter. (How to reduce > scope but still being fairly wide). > > .-. > P=C3=A5l-Erik > > > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice > --089e013c6478bed6d7051b89b5e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agree with Pal on the items and suggest removing the word = about consolidation the work from other groups. It would be better to keep = the charter focussed to problems to be solved with current ICE and new ICE = extensions and just that.=C2=A0



On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1= :45 PM, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) <palmarti@cisco.com> wrote= :
Hi,

Removed dispatch to avoid cross posting while discussing the charter. Need = to loop them back once the charter is closer to completion.

>
> On 07/23/2015 09:47 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> First of all creating an ICE WG is in my opinion a good idea.

Care to elaborate on why? Anything that can be done to help ease any= worries?

During dispatch there was a worry regarding SDP parts of the pusle, but tha= t would likely stay in MMUSIC. Any new ICE workgroup and MMUSIC need to be = very synced in that area.


>> However, I think this charter will need some work. The introductio= n
>> appears fine, but the work the group should do is poorly specified= . I
>> think the charter need to be much more specific on what work the >> group should do. Please write clearer goals for the work that is t= o
>> be done by the group.
>
> That was never meant as a complete charter, but as a minimal charter t= o which people can propose new and/or modified text.=C2=A0 I am happy to se= rve as editor until someone better at it step in, but meanwhile sending tex= t is probably the best way to iterate quickly towards an acceptable charter= .
>
That would be excellent. More comments below.

[cut]
>>>
>>> The goal of the ICE Working Group is to consolidate the variou= s
>>> initiatives to update ICE to make it more suitable for the Web= RTC
>>> environment but also to all the current usages of ICE.=C2=A0 T= he
>>> Working Group will closely coordinate with the appropriate Wor= king
>>> Groups, including RTCWEB, MMUSIC, TRAM, MIF, HIP and P2PSIP. >>>
>>
>>
I think listing other WG can be a bit dangerous. We should come up w= ith separate goals instead. Finding any correct WG to cooperate with is an = =E2=80=9Cimplementation=E2=80=9D detail.

A few key points the charter should contain:

- Focus on core ICE functionality. (At least make it possible for others to= define how candidates are exchanged etc.)
- Improving ICE. (Revisiting old recommendations, removing complexity, spee= ding up the process)
- New features. New functionality and allowing other protocols to be used b= y ICE. (Mobility and DTLS)
- Help other WG understand ICE and not break ICE by doing =E2=80=9Cstupid= =E2=80=9D things.

Not sure how the above should be written into a charter. (How to reduce sco= pe but still being fairly wide).

.-.
P=C3=A5l-Erik


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