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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Kathleen Moriarty , Alissa Cooper , The IESG , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:02:40 -0000 DQo+IE9uIDAxIE9jdCAyMDE1LCBhdCAwNToyMywgQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIDxiZW5Abm9zdHJ1bS5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gT24gMzAgU2VwIDIwMTUsIGF0IDE4OjU4LCBLYXRobGVlbiBNb3Jp YXJ0eSB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+PiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+PiBDT01NRU5UOg0KPj4gLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaGUgY2hhcnRlciBpcyBmaW5lIGFzLWlzLCBidXQgSSB3b3VsZCBo YXZlIGV4cGVjdGVkIHNvbWUgbWVudGlvbiBvZg0KPj4gc2VjdXJpdHkgYXMgdGhlIHJlZmVyZW5j ZWQgUkZDIGdvZXMgaW50byBkZXRhaWwgYWJvdXQgYSBudW1iZXIgb2YNCj4+IHBvc3NpYmxlIGF0 dGFja3MuICBJIHB1dCB0aGlzIGRvd24gYXMgbm8gb2JqZWN0aW9uIHNpbmNlIG11Y2ggb2YgdGhl DQo+PiBzb2x1dGlvbiB3aWxsIHJlbHkgb24gdGhlIHByb3RvY29sIHRoaXMgaXMgdXNlZCBmb3Ig LSBXZWJSVEMgb3IgU0lQIGluDQo+PiB0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlZCBSRkMuICBB cyBsb25nIGFzIHNlY3VyaXR5IGlzIGFkZHJlc3NlZCBpbg0KPj4gZHJhZnRzIHByb2R1Y2VkLCBt YXliZSBtZW50aW9uIGlzbid0IG5lZWRlZCBpbiB0aGUgY2hhcnRlci4NCj4gDQo+IEhpIEthdGhs ZWVuLA0KPiANCg0KPiBJTU8sIFJGQyA1MjQ1LCBhbmQgcmVsYXRlZCBkcmFmdHMsIGhhdmUgaGlz dG9yaWNhbGx5IGFkZHJlc3NlZCBzZWN1cml0eSBpbiBzb21lIGRlcHRoLiBJIGRvbid0IGV4cGVj dCBhbnl0aGluZyBpbiB0aGlzIGNoYXJ0ZXIgaXMgbGlrZWx5IHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0aGF0LiBXZSBj b3VsZCBhZGQgc29tZSB0ZXh0IGFib3V0IHNlY3VyaXR5LCBidXQgSSB0aGluayBpdCB3b3VsZCBm YWxsIGludG8gdGhlICJhbGwgV0dzIG5lZWQgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBzZWN1cml0eeKAnSBzb3J0IG9m IHRoaW5nLg0KPiANCg0KVGhlIHJlY2VudCDigJxkaXNzaWRlbnQgZXhwb3N1cmXigJ0gZGlzY3Vz c2lvbiB0aGF0IGhhcHBlbmVkIGluIHJ0Y3dlYiByZWdhcmRpbmcgaG93IHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlv biBjb2xsZWN0cyBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgb24gYWxsIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBuZXR3b3JrIGludGVyZmFj ZXMgaXMgY2VydGFpbmx5IHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGUgSUNFIFdHIGNvdWxkIGhlbHAgb3RoZXIgdXNl cnMgb2YgSUNFIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQuIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIG5pY2UgdG8gbm90IG1ha2UgdGhlIHNh bWUg4oCcbWlzdGFrZeKAnSB0d2ljZS4gDQoNCkkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBCZW4gdGhhdCBzZWN1cml0 eSBhbmQgcHJpdmFjeSBpc3N1ZXMgaXMgbWFuZGF0b3J5IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCBpbiBhbnkgZHJh ZnQuDQoNCi4tLg0KUMOlbC1FcmlrDQoNCg0KPiBJcyB0aGVyZSBzb21ldGhpbmcgc3BlY2lmaWMg eW91IGhhZCBpbiBtaW5kPw0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzIQ0KPiANCj4gQmVuLg0KPiANCj4gX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gSWNlIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdA0KPiBJY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9pY2UNCg0K From nobody Thu Oct 1 01:28:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E631B2BCC; 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Thu, 1 Oct 2015 03:27:59 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 03:27:59 -0500 From: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [Ice] Brian Haberman's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQ+/4Xq+McVtnmuUOw63BY9AMhVp5WSFqAgABZowA= Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:27:59 +0000 Message-ID: <272A55DA-E1C9-47D5-9133-D27C6A314682@cisco.com> References: <20150930165745.2016.12866.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <93848DB8-2CDB-4EE0-BCB2-F712868586A1@nostrum.com> <9195C610-4847-4F45-849C-2F7964D260F5@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <9195C610-4847-4F45-849C-2F7964D260F5@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.193.215] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <210E0B10F7C31446BB3C12BFDFAE4F3A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Brian Haberman , "alissa@cooperw.in" , The IESG , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Brian Haberman's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:28:02 -0000 DQo+IE9uIDAxIE9jdCAyMDE1LCBhdCAwNjowNywgQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIDxiZW5Abm9zdHJ1bS5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gT24gMzAgU2VwIDIwMTUsIGF0IDIzOjAzLCBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwg d3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPj4gSSB0aGluayB0aGUga2V5IGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIGFyZSB0aHJlZWZvbGQg KG5vdCBjb3VudGluZyB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IElDRSBwcmVkYXRlcyA2NzI0IGFuZCA2NTU1IDot KSApOg0KPj4gDQo+PiAtLSBJQ0UgaXMgaGlzdG9yaWNhbGx5IGFib3V0IE5BVCB0cmF2ZXJzYWwu IFRoaXMgaGFzIGEgZmV3IGltcGxpY2F0aW9uczogSXQgaXMgY29uY2VybmVkIHdpdGggYWRkcmVz czpwb3J0IHBhaXJzLCBub3QganVzdCBhZGRyZXNzZXMuIENhbmRpZGF0ZXMgb2Z0ZW4gcmVwcmVz ZW50IHRoaW5ncyBsaWtlIGEgZGlyZWN0IHBhdGggdG8gYSBuYXRpdmUgYWRkcmVzcy9wb3J0LCBh IE5BVCBhZGRyZXNzL3BvcnQsIGFuZCBhbiBhZGRyZXNzL3BvcnQgYXQgYSBUVVJOIHJlbGF5LiBU aGVzZSBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIHByaW9yaXRpemVkIGp1c3QgbGlrZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzIHNl bGVjdGlvbiBtZWNoYW5pc21zLS1idXQgd2l0aCBhY3RpdmUgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5IGNoZWNrcyB0 byBzcGVlZCB1cCB0aGUgc2VsZWN0aW9uIHByb2Nlc3MuDQo+PiANCj4+IC0tIElDRSBpcyBkZXNp Z25lZCB0byBiZSB1c2VkIHdpdGggcmVhbC10aW1lIHNpZ25hbGluZyBwcm90b2NvbHMgKGUuZy4g U0lQLCBXZWJSVEMsIHhtcHApLiBUaGVzZSBhbGxvdyBlbmRwb2ludHMgdG8gZXhwcmVzcyBleHBs aWNpdCBwcmVmZXJlbmNlcyBhYm91dCBjYW5kaWRhdGUgcHJpb3JpdHksIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIHN0 YXRpYyBydWxlcy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gLS0gSUNFIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSBjaGVja3MgYXJlIGFsc28g dXNlZCB0byBieSBXZWJSVEMgdG8gbGV0IGVuZHBvaW50cyBleHByZXNzIGNvbnNlbnQgdG8gcmVj ZWl2ZSBtZWRpYS4NCj4+IA0KPj4gRG9lcyBhbnkgb2YgdGhpcyBoZWxwPw0KPiANCj4gT29wcywg bWlzc2VkIG9uZSAoVGhlcmUgYXJlIF9mb3VyXyBrZXkgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMuLi4pDQo+IA0KPiAt LSBJQ0UgaXMgZGVzaWduZWQgZm9yIHJlYWwtdGltZSBtZWRpYSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMsIHdoZXJl IHRoZSB1c2VyIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgaXMgYmFkbHkgaW1wYWN0ZWQgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgbm90aWNl YWJsZSBkZWxheSBiZXR3ZWVuIHNpZ25hbGluZyBhIHNlc3Npb24sIGFuZCBhY3R1YWxseSBnZXR0 aW5nIG1lZGlhIHRvIGZsb3cuDQo+IA0KPiANCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB3YXMgYSBnb29kIHN1bW1h cnkuDQoNCklDRSBkb2VzIG5vdCBjYXJlIGFib3V0IHRoaW5ncyBsaWtlIOKAnGRlZmF1bHQgcm91 dGXigJ0gYW5kIHRoaW5ncyBsaWtlIHRoYXTigKYgSXQgaXMgcHJldHR5IHByYWdtYXRpYyBhbmQg dG9wb2xvZ3kgYWdub3N0aWMuIEdldCBob2xkIG9mIGFsbCBvdXIgbG9jYWwgY2FuZGlkYXRlcyAo IGFueSBpbnRlcmZhY2Ugd2l0aCBhbiBJUHY0IG9yIElQdjYgdGhlIE9TIGxldHMgeW91IG9wZW4g dXAgYSBwb3J0IG9uKS4gSXQgd2lsbCB0aGVuIHBhaXIgdGhvc2Ugd2l0aCB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIGNh bmRpZGF0ZXMgYW5kIGRvIGEgbG90IG9mIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSBjaGVja3MgdG8gc2VlIHdoYXQg YWN0dWFsbHkgd29ya3MuIFRoaXMgYmVoYXZpb3VyIGNhbiBiZSBhIGJpdCB1bmV4cGVjdGVkIGZy b20gYSBuZXR3b3JrIHBvaW50IG9mIHZpZXcsIHdoZXJlIHRoZXkgbWlnaHQgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBh biBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiB3b3VsZCBvbmx5IHVzZSB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgZGVmYXVsdCByb3V0ZSBh bmQgc28gb24uIE9uZSBvZiB0aGUgZ29hbHMgb2YgY3JlYXRpbmcgYSBuZXcgSUNFIFdHIGlzIHRv IGhlbHAgZmFjaWxpdGF0ZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucyBiZXR3ZWVuIGFwcCBhbmQgbmV0d29yayBmb2xr cy4gDQoNCi4tLg0KUMOlbC1FcmlrDQoNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gSWNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBJY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pY2UNCg0K From nobody Thu Oct 1 05:19:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E591E1A92BB for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 05:19:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SbO10TlFugZc for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 05:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com (mail-ob0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55DE41A910B for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 05:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbbh8 with SMTP id bh8so55873618obb.0 for ; Thu, 01 Oct 2015 05:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; 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[96.22.157.164]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id w127sm2571463oiw.29.2015.10.01.05.19.24 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Oct 2015 05:19:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Brian Haberman References: <20150930165745.2016.12866.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <93848DB8-2CDB-4EE0-BCB2-F712868586A1@nostrum.com> From: Simon Perreault Message-ID: <560D24CB.5000208@jive.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:19:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <93848DB8-2CDB-4EE0-BCB2-F712868586A1@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , alissa@cooperw.in, The IESG , ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] Brian Haberman's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:19:28 -0000 > Just a question for my own edification... How does the address selection > mechanism in ICE work/play with the address selection done at the IP > layer? We have address selection mechanisms described in RFCs 6724 and > 6555 (and others) and address selection issues/requirements described in > RFCs 5220 and 5221. Not sure how all those fit with a higher-layer > protocol making similar decisions. In addition to what others have said, ICE *does* refer to RFC 3484 for assigning priorities to candidates, so there's that. And Pĺl-Erik has a draft tweaking some of that behaviour: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-dualstack-fairness-02 I suppose that that draft would move to the new ICE WG, so in a way the answer to your question could be "the new WG will work on that". Simon From nobody Thu Oct 1 06:55:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18571A6F0B; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:55:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CQRZOBaA6wXe; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B655D1A1BF2; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91DtSPK086262 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:55:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Stephen Farrell" Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 08:55:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1050249D-ED27-44AC-86F9-6300F64850B0@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <20151001134637.20690.37616.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20151001134637.20690.37616.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: alissa@cooperw.in, The IESG , ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:55:37 -0000 On 1 Oct 2015, at 8:46, Stephen Farrell wrote: > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-ice-00-03: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ice/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I like the idea of working to ensure we don't have another fuss > about exposing the various IP addresses when that's not wanted. > I'm not sure if that needs to be in the charter or not. Something to the effect of "The core ICE work will consider IP address privacy."? From nobody Thu Oct 1 12:51:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9986B1B2ED0; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:51:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gdFdUzZ7pgOg; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47B1E1B2EB6; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91JpIta019447 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:51:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Stephen Farrell" Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:51:17 -0500 Message-ID: <64DC5916-B882-4893-8CBF-D48A6EC8E0E1@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <560D3B98.8060207@cs.tcd.ie> References: <20151001134637.20690.37616.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1050249D-ED27-44AC-86F9-6300F64850B0@nostrum.com> <560D3B98.8060207@cs.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: alissa@cooperw.in, The IESG , ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:51:27 -0000 On 1 Oct 2015, at 8:56, Stephen Farrell wrote: > On 01/10/15 14:55, Ben Campbell wrote: >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 8:46, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> >>> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >>> charter-ietf-ice-00-03: No Objection >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to >>> all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut >>> this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ice/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> I like the idea of working to ensure we don't have another fuss >>> about exposing the various IP addresses when that's not wanted. >>> I'm not sure if that needs to be in the charter or not. >> >> Something to the effect of "The core ICE work will consider IP >> address >> privacy."? > > That'd be a fine addition to make, yes. How about "The core ICE work will offer guidance to help minimize the unintentional exposure of IP addresses."? Ben. From nobody Thu Oct 1 12:54:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583AB1B2ED7 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:54:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MoEEbCw-pFUH for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A6311B2ED5 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91JrvMV019788 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:53:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: ice@ietf.org Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:53:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1046EB63-E2DF-4E7F-895B-179EC78783E0@nostrum.com> References: <20151001074508.25019.50542.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Fwd: Martin Stiemerling's Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:54:00 -0000 Does anyone have thoughts on Martin's question below? Forwarded message: > From: Martin Stiemerling > To: The IESG > Cc: ben@nostrum.com, alissa@cooperw.in, ice@ietf.org > Subject: Martin Stiemerling's Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) > Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 00:45:08 -0700 > > - Does the item "congestion control" include the topic of pacing ICE? ICE > pacing has been discussed in the past and I am not sure that this has > been dealt with in the past or if this is being include in the scope of > the ICE WG as a work topic? From nobody Thu Oct 1 13:00:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BA41B2EE2 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r1-xcrQAoFbv for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAB581B2EE0 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91K0K9U020377 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:00:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: ice@ietf.org Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:00:20 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20150929160410.25685.75567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Subject: [Ice] Fwd: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 20:00:24 -0000 Does anyone have thoughts on Spencer's comments about the use of the term "fairness"? I'm hesitant to make the change since the draft question uses that exact term--but I'm sympathetic to his point, and wonder if the itself might should use a different term. Thoughts? Ben. Forwarded message: > From: Spencer Dawkins > To: The IESG > Cc: ben@nostrum.com, alissa@cooperw.in, ice@ietf.org > Subject: Spencer Dawkins' Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with > COMMENT) > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 09:04:10 -0700 > [...] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is the right thing to do, and I'm fine with the application level > work being in ART/ICE while the tooling work remains in TSV/TRAM. > > I do have one minor comment - is "fairness" the best word that can be > used to describe these deliverables? In TSV, it usually means fairness > between competing flows, and seems confusing here, at least to me. > This > seems more like "improved selection" or something. > > From nobody Thu Oct 1 13:00:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C354D1B2EE6 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id whz94Xiw02JU for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f179.google.com (mail-ob0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F57A1B2EE2 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbzf10 with SMTP id zf10so66704412obb.2 for ; Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uJCbvGKpTOHh2aWYCIDhWUAzE7b2lAcQcUsKgjHYdz0=; b=MFlilCsqK1OEBvNfabzXfT6KElZhEJsPJRnkY6/qKis3slQxw8vIfA36rBERg3F+fG kxn8NiLQRmewsJMqDDcgdjlFBFbFdZiL5H6+b7hAjw7LwlnFS+20yI2y8Q12HDgZNLxt tNouIZqG9DLPZhfdl/95z4Yka9nICM1aEEiZiAp9+sZao6ICLr0taLU59x9AAkXx3TaF TQIzb6pCLNRjU4edLX5JG6bsxe0INVyYvqodeQ42DyZXbfQNlaCVX206Korq/eHDZJaq /WjhGzdYMCRTgsz1G6MDfungKoB4CnwhyZHPRdKl5H12yWGi9wjIMRhSEjBNQ9O7JZJg h6yQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnz0xrNyxiim/H7BnD79vyfCwNNh2TqpspCzptaXTTQ+AviMp6f1/+t/+NiQ5KRp2qPHpmQ X-Received: by 10.182.246.71 with SMTP id xu7mr7661071obc.66.1443729643893; Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.44] (modemcable164.157-22-96.mc.videotron.ca. [96.22.157.164]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id i67sm3382664oig.9.2015.10.01.13.00.43 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:00:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Ben Campbell , ice@ietf.org References: <20151001074508.25019.50542.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1046EB63-E2DF-4E7F-895B-179EC78783E0@nostrum.com> From: Simon Perreault Message-ID: <560D90EA.5060408@jive.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:00:42 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1046EB63-E2DF-4E7F-895B-179EC78783E0@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Fwd: Martin Stiemerling's Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 20:00:45 -0000 >> - Does the item "congestion control" include the topic of pacing ICE? ICE >> pacing has been discussed in the past and I am not sure that this has >> been dealt with in the past or if this is being include in the scope of >> the ICE WG as a work topic? Our friends at Google presented some data in Prague that seemed to indicate that pacing could be much faster than what ICE currently recommends. The WG asked for further experiments. In short, I would expect this conversation to continue and reach a conclusion in the new ICE WG. Simon From nobody Thu Oct 1 13:04:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE131B2EF1 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fd1NTlg5B5Xb for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFF321B2EF0 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91K4HQF020724 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:04:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Simon Perreault" , "Martin Stiemerling" Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:04:17 -0500 Message-ID: <76E9E596-BD36-4037-AD7C-ECBD031A4CE4@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <560D90EA.5060408@jive.com> References: <20151001074508.25019.50542.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1046EB63-E2DF-4E7F-895B-179EC78783E0@nostrum.com> <560D90EA.5060408@jive.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] Martin Stiemerling's Yes on charter-ietf-ice-00-03: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 20:04:21 -0000 (Oops, I meant to copy Martin. Added.) Martin, does that answer your question? My inclination is that this is just part of the work already described, and doesn't need to be explicitly mentioned on the charter. Does that work for you? Thanks! Ben. On 1 Oct 2015, at 15:00, Simon Perreault wrote: >>> - Does the item "congestion control" include the topic of pacing >>> ICE? ICE >>> pacing has been discussed in the past and I am not sure that this >>> has >>> been dealt with in the past or if this is being include in the scope >>> of >>> the ICE WG as a work topic? > > Our friends at Google presented some data in Prague that seemed to > indicate that pacing could be much faster than what ICE currently > recommends. The WG asked for further experiments. > > In short, I would expect this conversation to continue and reach a > conclusion in the new ICE WG. > > Simon From nobody Thu Oct 1 13:20:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6807A1A8877; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PEGTVGc5KCyE; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FA11A8941; Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t91KKGs1022087 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:20:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: ice@ietf.org Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:20:15 -0500 Message-ID: <953291BA-2E25-47B4-8D7D-50FB07B0D876@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: art-ads@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] ICE charter updates X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 20:20:18 -0000 Hi Everyone, I made some minor updates to the proposed ice charter, based on the IESG review. Please take a look and indicate any objections. Please pay special attention to the new sentence about unintentional IP address exposure. I expect the charter to be approved any day know, so please send any objections as soon as possible. Thanks! Ben. Latest Version: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ice/ Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=http%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fcharter-ietf-ice%2Fwithmilestones-00-03.txt&url2=http%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fcharter-ietf-ice%2Fwithmilestones-00-04.txt From nobody Tue Oct 6 07:25:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A61E1B4084; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 07:25:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OMKLKXyX3E_p; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 700B01B407E; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.9] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t96EPV10075225 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:25:32 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.9] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 09:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.2r5141) Archived-At: Cc: Flemming Andreasen , mmusic , Ari =?utf-8?q?Ker=C3=A4nen?= , Peter Thatcher , ice@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] Approved: charter-ietf-ice-00-04 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:25:44 -0000 Hi IESG Secretary (bcc), The Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) working group is approved. The charter is charter-ietf-ice-00-04. Thanks for your help on this! Ben. From nobody Wed Oct 14 11:17:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279B81AD34C; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:17:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eCvPE76mzwqR; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DB8B1AD305; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:17:19 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-59-561e9c2dd5e2 Received: from ESESSHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 9F.E2.05274.D2C9E165; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:17:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Aris-MacBook-Pro.local (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:17:16 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= To: ice , mmusic Message-ID: <561E9C2C.4050003@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:17:16 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja7uHLkwgymt4hbfLtRaTF3+mMXi 2vLXrA7MHgs2lXosWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugStje1MrW8FTzooLb6+yNTDeYu9i5OSQ EDCRmDvhNRuELSZx4d56IJuLQ0jgKKPE/jlb2CGcTYwSvVNeMYNUsQnYSvxu38MEYgsL6Ehc /rGaBcRmFtCUuH9yIdhUEQEDic5Jb4BqODh4BbQl5v7QBgmzCKhK7Oh+CzZGVCBN4vC1D6wg Nq+AoMTJmU+gxlhIzJx/nhHClpfY/nYOWL0QUO/Vf68YJzDyz0LSMgtJyywkLQsYmVcxihan FiflphsZ66UWZSYXF+fn6eWllmxiBAbhwS2/VXcwXn7jeIhRgINRiYdXYbtsmBBrYllxZe4h RmkOFiVx3mamB6FCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGHsUc1aF9Jrp/Vtx73DcWxHN Kbz87YwR/JxPVxqc2aHglXJBasrxOJnmvqKbk25sSWgNUu+cm7zf/6+Dy51ZPMZVV2awVi9+ zmH6rqZx25wraQe/OLlsnfIrbjP/u2t2Lx2mHpSeKHzM9c3mxX0/7GMsnxvxrjNap/+m3e/I h45387szHotaCSuxFGckGmoxFxUnAgCCEIrPIwIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: Peter Thatcher Subject: [Ice] ICE WG agenda requests for IETF #94 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 18:17:21 -0000 Hi all, The new ICE WG will have its first meeting at the Yokohama IETF #94. We have a 2,5 hour slot on Thursday November 5th. The WG draft agendas are due on October 19th, so if you would like to have a presentation slot at the ICE WG meeting, please let the chairs know as soon as possible, but latest Sunday October 18th. As you can see from the ICE WG charter (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/), the focus of the WG is on finalizing ICE bis, Trickle ICE, and dual-stack fairness, but also new work that "will make ICE more flexible, robust and more suitable for changing mobile environments without major changes to the original ICE" is in the scope of the WG. We will prioritize work that has been already discussed on the mailing lists (MMUSIC and/or ICE), so please raise open issues on the ICE list already before the meeting. In your agenda request e-mail please specify the following: - name of the draft and the presenter - how much time you would like to have - outline of major open issues; what needs to be discussed at the meeting - dependencies to your draft (if any) Also note that SDP specific ICE documents are discussed at MMUSIC. Thanks, Ari & Peter (ICE WG co-chairs) From nobody Wed Oct 14 14:01:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2A91A890E for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vo0UG4sg9tGz for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com [23.79.238.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACABC1A899A for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D024334DD for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:59:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from prod-mail-relay10.akamai.com (prod-mail-relay10.akamai.com [172.27.118.251]) by prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3C84334DB for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:59:53 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; s=a1; t=1444856393; bh=opSpY0cQv1l6ZvmmfyITNJB6SgL8uAfulJlO9RoiHlU=; l=1895; h=References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=vtzgzM9EX2jS30Oft94GE3g+0knSLeeNGMNMRolVdssrljXxFgwe5yP7+fnf9QgO7 vF2WyvopKX/KVDYFBmEzt3eqJegQS1wzZ+UTaOTEvHXQ0elybGwAV2k+okqNhgQsOB fafyft2l66vDb7JFKP+NJqLqf1InMHFCdk0bq01g= Received: from [172.28.113.72] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.113.72]) by prod-mail-relay10.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A242035 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 20:59:53 +0000 (GMT) References: <20151014204935.16722.52620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ice@ietf.org From: Brandon Williams X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20151014204935.16722.52620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <561EC249.8050008@akamai.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:59:53 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151014204935.16722.52620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission-00.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:01:47 -0000 I just posted the below referenced draft that may be of interest to the ICE WG. Please direct all comments to the TRAM WG list. --Brandon -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission-00.txt Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:49:35 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Brandon Williams , Brandon Williams , Justin Uberti , Justin Uberti A new version of I-D, draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Brandon Williams and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission Revision: 00 Title: Ufrag Permissions for Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN) Document date: 2015-10-14 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 9 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-williams-tram-ufrag-permission-00 Abstract: When using a TURN relay, ICE connectivity checks require an explicit permission or channel binding to be established for each peer address to be checked. This requires the answerer to send its candidate addresses to the offerer via the rendezvous server, which can impose a latency penalty when the rendezvous server is centrally located. This document defines a new type of TURN permission that will allow any ICE connectivity check message that contains the offerer's ufrag value to be accepted on a relay address for delivery over the associated TURN tunnel. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Fri Oct 16 04:17:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47ED21A8F4F; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9c3dC7hJmKhR; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D7F1A8F4A; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79136d0000071e2-94-5620dcdeca17 Received: from ESESSHC014.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C9.53.29154.EDCD0265; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:17:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from o73.nomadiclab.com (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:17:49 +0200 To: mmusic , ice References: <56056142.20608@ericsson.com> <56056E62.3040904@andyet.net> <560E9564.6010801@ericsson.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= Message-ID: <5620DCDD.8050802@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:17:49 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <560E9564.6010801@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje69OwphBjvv61h8u1BrMXX5YxaL 99dXslicenSE2WLxgfusDqwe5+5cY/eY8nsjq8eSJT+ZApijuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDK2TP3N VrCDs+Jw/zn2BsYd7F2MnBwSAiYSS5esYoSwxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJRRouHnJ2YIZx2jxL03 h8A6hAUsJN682Q7WISJgINHVsJUFxBYSyJTYuuEcO0gDs8A0Roldh3pYIRLqEkdWL2cCsdkE bCV+t+8Bsjk4eAW0JU5e8QIJswioSvR8WQA2U1QgTeLwtQ9grbwCghInZz4Bm88poCMx7fws NhCbGeiGmfPPM0LY8hLNW2czQ6xSlbj67xXjBEahWUjaZyFpmYWkZQEj8ypG0eLU4uLcdCMj vdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwHA/uOW31Q7Gg88dDzEKcDAq8fAqRCmECbEmlhVX5h5ilOZgURLn bWZ6ECokkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBsemWraFnvfvLjtjIPxFvziVcVOO7oNhi tmXJMd2F/2W6p/+8v7tuknTd2qK8eY+LtbY+anLe9t32xK/VfjOOsXpeVVJ7IBwp6lF42KmP 4fk8hcLDDgc0Db8Vn41lD+Na4Sg//4l7x8EH95i7/wkV3q9aUiAbof/na9zxXzL3vphpfK5w uMa1UYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRAByhm+FYAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "Pal Martinsen \(palmarti\)" , "Suhas Nandakumar \(snandaku\)" , Peter Saint-Andre - &yet Subject: [Ice] ICE offer/answer/candidate exchange terminology X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ice@ietf.org" List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:17:54 -0000 (cross posting to MMUSIC and ICE to move the thread to the ICE list; please reply to ICE list) On 02/10/15 17:32, Ari Keränen wrote: > On 25/09/15 18:55, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet wrote: >> On 9/25/15 8:59 AM, Ari Keränen wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> For quite some time now we have had discussions on how could we best get >>> rid of the remaining RFC3264 offer/answer language in ICEbis. >>> >>> Together with Suhas and PĂĄl-Erik we discussed this off-line and came to >>> conclusion that we have two reasonable options for the "offer/answer >>> part" of the terminology: "ICE offer & ICE answer" and "ICE candidate >>> exchange". >> >> Given the existence of trickle ICE, I much prefer "candidate exchange". > > Thanks for the feedback Peter! > > At the moment it seems there's more support for the "candidate exchange" > terminology. And no one has said they can't live with that. > > Would be great to have more feedback from folks, and in particular > please, let us know if "candidate exchange" is in your opinion a bad > idea (and why). No one seems to be against this idea, so we will go forward with the terminology change. Cheers, Ari (as ICE bis editor) From nobody Mon Oct 19 00:58:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD19F1A6FCD for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 00:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t5CPlF8EEMK6 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 00:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) 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[73.34.202.214]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d6sm14377140ioe.30.2015.10.19.11.15.56 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:15:57 -0700 (PDT) To: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" , mmusic References: <6A95BC34-591E-4BC0-B861-AF504D47A56D@cisco.com> From: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet Message-ID: <5625335C.3@andyet.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:15:56 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6A95BC34-591E-4BC0-B861-AF504D47A56D@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE review X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:16:03 -0000 Hi Pal, Thanks for the detailed review. I recently volunteered to help Emil, Eric, and Justin finish this spec. Unfortunately your review is large so I won't have time to address all of the issues you've raised today before the submission deadline. However, see some comments inline. On 9/22/15 3:48 AM, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) wrote: > Hi, > > Here is my review of the Trickle ICE draft. > > Some technical issues/questions: > > - Some confusion regarding the checklist state. This is also somewhat > confusing in the vanilla spec. A checklist has three defined states: > Running, Failed and Succeeded. But it can also implicitly be described > as frozen or waiting dependent on the state of the candidate_pairs in > the list. I think Trickle ICE would benefit if we added another state: > Waiting_for_candidates. > Action: Discuss Checklist sates in ICEbis and addition states in Trickle > ICE during next IETF meeting? Yes, this would be a good topic to discuss then. I will also start a separate thread on the ICE WG list on this point. > - I think Trickle ICE would benefit a lot from the outcome of > continious-nomination and the passive-agressive proposals. At least if > we are aiming for Trickle ICE to be used as an address mobility > technique as well. Depends how quick we want trickle ICE out of the > door. This can easily be fixed by another draft describing Trickle ICE > mobility later As I understand it, the trickle ICE spec was originally intended to document existing usage. I would like to hear from the chairs of the ICE WG about what they envision for scope and timeline of this I-D. Again, I can start a thread about that on the ICE WG list. > - Separate SDP from the documents as done with ICEbis? I think that would be helpful - I know I've found it a bit confusing to read because of how SDP seems to be sort-of but not-quite normative. I'll reply to the rest of your message separately because it's quite thorough. :-) Peter From nobody Tue Oct 20 03:39:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E50C1B327F; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 03:38:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5kONgBCqV-e3; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 03:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 159CE1B327E; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-92-562619bb3079 Received: from ESESSHC019.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DF.C5.27359.BB916265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:38:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Aris-MacBook-Pro.local (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:38:51 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= To: Message-ID: <562619B9.3080504@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:38:49 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4eSbUwg66H/BbfLtRaTF3+mMXi 2vLXrBbT5n1ktDj25i6bA6vHgk2lHkuW/GTy+HL5M1sAcxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxqLjR1kK pvBVzH7wl7mBcT93FyMnh4SAicTBmw3MELaYxIV769m6GLk4hASOMkrMvHecEcLZxCix9+N5 dpAqNgFbid/te5hAbGEBQ4kDC2aC2cwCdRJHn98FqxESUJc4sno5UJyDQ0RARKJ7hz5ImFdA W+LPnn9gy1gEVCUu/13FBmKLCqRJHL72gRWiRlDi5MwnLCCtzAL2Eg+2lkFMl5fY/nYOM8R0 VYmr/14xTmAUmIWkYxZCxywkHQsYmVcxihanFiflphsZ6aUWZSYXF+fn6eWllmxiBIbtwS2/ DXYwvnzueIhRgINRiYf3QbpqmBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx3mamB6FCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5 qcWHGJk4OKUaGLfbLPDwtpXqaszWcvmcsZZ79sKUiK8nxTv93z4KTTE4ONXc4uMEpQ63r6f2 zJvwufJl+gf25u7HHZvEtgadKTr1y3vBmbDNZo47hbnsjnIer/bZ0DB7Y1lgxO/mdwdKZnLe 92Df8uf31XM3hGdP/2c0yS2bo9Zjr09zoqfq9tRn+zwueE8zL1ZiKc5INNRiLipOBADCg3Ex PAIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: tsv-ads@tools.ietf.org, mmusic , Peter Thatcher , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: [Ice] Transport expertise needed at the ICE WG X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ice@ietf.org" List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:38:56 -0000 Hi all, The new ICE working group was recently chartered and one reason for splitting this WG from MMUSIC WG was to get more folks with transport expertise involved. One long-standing issue with the new revision of the ICE specification [1] has been finding a proper value for the transaction pacing parameter which governs, e.g., how fast connectivity check packets can be sent. In the original ICE RFC this value was set for RTP traffic minimum 20 ms and for non-RTP traffic minimum 500 ms [2]. The lower the pacing value, potentially faster the ICE process concludes, which is obviously very desirable. However, setting a too low value may result in overloading the NATs (they can create new binding only so fast) and also congesting the links so that connectivity check packets are lost and result in false negatives. However, because such conservative value (500 ms) was selected for non-RTP traffic, in practice most implementations ignore this recommendation. Also the validity of the RTP traffic's 20 ms minimum interval has been questioned for modern networks. Now when we are revising the ICE specification, we'd like to select better values for these. Therefore, we would also like to hear from transport area experts what would you consider a reasonable lower bound for the transaction pacing parameter today. At the Yokohama meeting we are planning to have a slot at the ICE WG session dedicated on this topic and we would welcome your input there. And before the meeting please share your views on the ICE working group mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice Thanks, Ari & Peter (ICE WG co-chairs) [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00 [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-16 From nobody Tue Oct 20 04:04:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F071A88DE; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qK4s_Ac9zQFG; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD4A81A88D2; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:04:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-fc-56261fa07f6c Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 45.0B.27359.0AF16265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:04:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Aris-MacBook-Pro.local (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:03:59 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= To: ICE WG References: <20151019162127.18268.20717.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <56261F9E.9010801@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:03:58 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151019162127.18268.20717.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4CebUwg7OfbSy+Xai1mLr8MYvF 4gP3WR2YPab83sjqsWTJT6YApigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujHPr3rIUdPJX9B24wNjAuJGni5GT Q0LAROLk0d0sELaYxIV769m6GLk4hASOMko0LfzIAuFsYpS4f3ULWBWbgK3E7/Y9TCC2sICX xK3L/ewgtoiApETLn42sILaQgKPEpJ1zmEFsZoEgibXvPjNDxNUljqxeDtbLK6At8fPlezCb RUBV4syxZ2C9ogJpEoevfWCFqBGUODnzCdheTgEniYbOS0BzOIBm2ks82FoGMV5eYvvbOVDj VSWu/nvFOIFRaBaS7lkIHbOQdCxgZF7FKFqcWpyUm25kpJdalJlcXJyfp5eXWrKJERjMB7f8 NtjB+PK54yFGAQ5GJR7eB+mqYUKsiWXFlbmHGKU5WJTEeZuZHoQKCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5Xm pBYfYmTi4JRqYNx2vr00I0iZKy7fyiHzseKdp2YnJWabL5kzL0L6s5PyGU1PxSdpe52bUjQ5 uI+b37XOPuCUrvMt/d3xDayZPxqmPDctva4xob/SQTLx9R9hj5hM2/x1926IL95z7Y/XJK4Y Nm0xuX75cP41udXdHwR+LztVc4iDNfFGn6TultoqPVdf3sbXSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAvXHgiUcC AAA= Archived-At: Cc: mmusic , "Suhas Nandakumar \(snandaku\)" Subject: Re: [Ice] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ice@ietf.org" List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:04:05 -0000 Hi all, This new version updates the ICE bis draft to follow the new terminology for ICE candidate exchange. It also contains set of editorial fixes and some re-structuring. Thanks to Suhas Nandakumar for proposing new text for the majority of the changes. A full diff is available here: http://www6.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc5245bis-05&url2=draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00 Reviews and comments are very welcome. From now on this document is discussed in the ICE WG, so please post your comments to the ICE list -- unless your comment is specific to SDP usage of ICE, and then MMUSIC is the right list. Thanks, Ari On 19/10/15 19:21, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00.txt >has been successfully submitted by Ari Keranen and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis >Revision: 00 >Title: Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE): A Protocol for >Network Address Translator (NAT) Traversal >Document date: 2015-10-19 >Group: ice >Pages: 92 >URL: >https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00.txt >Status: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis/ >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00 > > >Abstract: > This document describes a protocol for Network Address Translator > (NAT) traversal for UDP-based multimedia. This protocol is called > Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE). ICE makes use of the > Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) protocol and its > extension, Traversal Using Relay NAT (TURN). > > This document obsoletes RFC 5245. > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Tue Oct 20 05:19:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31851B33B2 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 05:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDetztFobd8G for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 05:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E205C1B33AC for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 05:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-95-56263155ecc1 Received: from ESESSHC020.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6C.57.05274.55136265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:19:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from m46.nomadiclab.com (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:19:33 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= To: "ice@ietf.org" Message-ID: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:19:32 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGJMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW6YoVqYwdeJ3BbfLtQ6MHosWfKT KYAxissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugStj4qVPLAVnuSo+fG1mbmDs5+hi5OSQEDCRuHxjAiOELSZx4d56 ti5GLg4hgaOMEn8v3GSCcNYxSuzd/Rusik3AVuJ3+x6gBAeHsICxxM7lTiBhEQFFiZktz5hB bF4BbYn9Pd/BbBYBVYl1v5aygNiiAmkSh699YIWoEZQ4OfMJWJxZwEJi5vzzjBC2vMT2t3PA eoWAeq/+e8U4gZFvFpKWWUhaZiFpWcDIvIpRtDi1OCk33chYL7UoM7m4OD9PLy+1ZBMjMKAO bvmtuoPx8hvHQ4wCHIxKPLwP0lXDhFgTy4orcw8xSnOwKInzNjM9CBUSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYov Ks1JLT7EyMTBKdXAOPl+2zah7eYCrlcniNrLGb7Xq7CofqFbd/zc10dsiU7sCQLH8u/6LeAN luw+8j1gYre+3e6cnzLuvne1n3HlZs7I5haOlF53sK54Tf0GzuvnVf/5TT3lH+raF3WRXefJ zSm5oRUOy9633vJQtv4pJ9uvk3TYc+3zUxxzHn8os3FrWS+nu19fiaU4I9FQi7moOBEAomXq IwkCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:19:38 -0000 Hi all, Currently the ICE-bis spec says about RTCP and components following [1]: For RTP-based media streams, the RTP itself has a component ID of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP, it MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an agent is using both RTP and RTCP, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K IP addresses. However, if implementation is multiplexing both RTP and RTCP in the same port -- which seems to be more and more common practice today -- this "MUST" obviously isn't true. And in general we are now recommending to not use multiple candidates. Therefore, I'd suggest clarifying this with something like: For RTP-based media streams, unless both RTP and RTCP are multiplexed in the same UDP port, the RTP itself has a component ID of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP without multiplexing, it MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an agent is using both RTP and RTCP in separate components, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K IP addresses. And also make similar changes to other places where separate component IDs are discussed. Does that sound OK? Cheers, Ari (as ICE-bis editor) [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-4.1.1.1 From nobody Tue Oct 20 06:06:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F6A1A1A90 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:06:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQKVdrYjuBss for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AFA21A1A9D for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:05:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-24-56263c2d01a9 Received: from ESESSHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E2.D0.05274.D2C36265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:05:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from m46.nomadiclab.com (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:05:48 +0200 To: "ice@ietf.org" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= Message-ID: <56263C2C.2000603@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:05:48 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupiluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3RlfXRi3M4EqTqMW3C7UW15a/ZnVg 8liwqdRjyZKfTAFMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZTzbsZi+4zlrx+fR71gbGwyxdjBwcEgImEr/f 6XYxcgKZYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMoosfjDMXYIZx2jxMsTc1lAqkQEFCVmtjxjBrGZBTQl7p9c yA5iswnYSvxu38MEYgsDxZtu72cFsXkFtCWeNh9hBlnGIqAqcWShNEhYVCBN4vC1D1AlghIn Zz5hgRhpITFz/nlGCFteYvvbOWCrhIBar/57xTiBkX8WkpZZSFpmIWlZwMi8ilG0OLU4KTfd yFgvtSgzubg4P08vL7VkEyMw8A5u+a26g/HyG8dDjAIcjEo8vA/SVcOEWBPLiitzDzFKc7Ao ifM2Mz0IFRJITyxJzU5NLUgtii8qzUktPsTIxMEp1cBoV+4UsSRQLtPBMjvpRcUy3fmHYz4s iruYtHGB86lmAZuXkzynFIjk5YVdm3XikKbL5MwjmZcO3rJr2p/T9733t8MHu0u/6k7si7R5 /SshwGli7+Xuc1089hLbdH9rNHna3FuyWDPW1+PiQueXi/cf8N2Ts/9sgMx2n03n4/guvzVy ZTFOcetWYinOSDTUYi4qTgQAgfjWGh0CAAA= Archived-At: Cc: Peter Thatcher Subject: [Ice] ICE WG draft agenda for IETF #94 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:06:53 -0000 Hi all, Draft agenda for the first ICE WG meeting at Yokohama is here: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/agenda/agenda-94-ice Please have a look at the agenda and let us know if you have any questions or comments. Our focus in the meeting will be on clearing the remaining open issues in our WG documents; in particular with ICE-bis STUN message timing and Trickle ICE. In addition, we are planning to discuss ways of working in the new WG as part of the chair update, and also future enhancements to ICE for the time left after the open issues. In particular for the timing and future improvements discussion slots we are still welcoming contributions. Thanks, Ari & Peter (ICE WG co-chairs) From nobody Tue Oct 20 06:55:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD691A8AC0 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:55:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TxJwEqwpySoK for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0B3F1A8FD4 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073110.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t9KDp7IS021128; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:55:33 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1xenmhwkdj-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:55:33 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:55:32 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= Thread-Topic: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis Thread-Index: AQHRCz3KcLJAWBYa1U+3YXgsYQP18550u02A Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8ABF6939927A4B45AD01E3E6325CF497@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-10-20_05:2015-10-20,2015-10-20,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1508030000 definitions=main-1510200230 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:55:39 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE9jdCAyMCwgMjAxNSwgYXQgODoxOSBBTSwgQXJpIEtlcsOkbmVuIDxhcmkua2VyYW5l bkBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gSGkgYWxsLA0KPiANCj4gQ3VycmVudGx5IHRo ZSBJQ0UtYmlzIHNwZWMgc2F5cyBhYm91dCBSVENQIGFuZCBjb21wb25lbnRzIGZvbGxvd2luZyBb MV06DQo+IA0KPiAgIEZvciBSVFAtYmFzZWQgbWVkaWEgc3RyZWFtcywgdGhlIFJUUCBpdHNlbGYg aGFzIGEgY29tcG9uZW50IElEIG9mIDEsDQo+ICAgYW5kIFJUQ1AgYSBjb21wb25lbnQgSUQgb2Yg Mi4gIElmIGFuIGFnZW50IGlzIHVzaW5nIFJUQ1AsIGl0IE1VU1QNCj4gICBvYnRhaW4gYSBjYW5k aWRhdGUgZm9yIGl0LiAgSWYgYW4gYWdlbnQgaXMgdXNpbmcgYm90aCBSVFAgYW5kIFJUQ1AsDQo+ ICAgaXQgd291bGQgZW5kIHVwIHdpdGggMipLIGhvc3QgY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBpZiBhbiBhZ2VudCBo YXMgSyBJUA0KPiAgIGFkZHJlc3Nlcy4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBIb3dldmVyLCBpZiBpbXBsZW1lbnRh dGlvbiBpcyBtdWx0aXBsZXhpbmcgYm90aCBSVFAgYW5kIFJUQ1AgaW4gdGhlIHNhbWUgcG9ydCAt LSB3aGljaCBzZWVtcyB0byBiZSBtb3JlIGFuZCBtb3JlIGNvbW1vbiBwcmFjdGljZSB0b2RheSAt LSB0aGlzICJNVVNUIiBvYnZpb3VzbHkgaXNuJ3QgdHJ1ZS4gQW5kIGluIGdlbmVyYWwgd2UgYXJl IG5vdyByZWNvbW1lbmRpbmcgdG8gbm90IHVzZSBtdWx0aXBsZSBjYW5kaWRhdGVzLiBUaGVyZWZv cmUsIEknZCBzdWdnZXN0IGNsYXJpZnlpbmcgdGhpcyB3aXRoIHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlOg0KPiAN Cj4gICBGb3IgUlRQLWJhc2VkIG1lZGlhIHN0cmVhbXMsIHVubGVzcyBib3RoIFJUUCBhbmQgUlRD UCBhcmUgbXVsdGlwbGV4ZWQNCj4gICBpbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBVRFAgcG9ydCwgdGhlIFJUUCBpdHNl bGYgaGFzIGEgY29tcG9uZW50IElEIG9mIDEsIGFuZA0KPiAgIFJUQ1AgYSBjb21wb25lbnQgSUQg b2YgMi4gIElmIGFuIGFnZW50IGlzIHVzaW5nIFJUQ1Agd2l0aG91dA0KPiAgIG11bHRpcGxleGlu ZywgaXQgTVVTVCBvYnRhaW4gYSBjYW5kaWRhdGUgZm9yIGl0LiAgSWYgYW4gYWdlbnQgaXMNCj4g ICB1c2luZyBib3RoIFJUUCBhbmQgUlRDUCBpbiBzZXBhcmF0ZSBjb21wb25lbnRzLCBpdCB3b3Vs ZCBlbmQgdXAgd2l0aA0KPiAgIDIqSyBob3N0IGNhbmRpZGF0ZXMgaWYgYW4gYWdlbnQgaGFzIEsg SVAgYWRkcmVzc2VzLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IEFuZCBhbHNvIG1ha2Ugc2ltaWxhciBjaGFuZ2VzIHRv IG90aGVyIHBsYWNlcyB3aGVyZSBzZXBhcmF0ZSBjb21wb25lbnQgSURzIGFyZSBkaXNjdXNzZWQu DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsg4oCcdXNpbmfigJ0gbXVsdGlwbGV4aW5nIGlzIHZhZ3VlIOKAlCBpZiB5b3Xi gJlyZSBwcmVwYXJlZCB0byBmYWxsIGJhY2sgdG8gbm9uLW11bHRpcGxleGVkLCB5b3UgbmVlZCB0 byBvYnRhaW4gY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBmb3IgYm90aCBjb21wb25lbnRzLCBldmVuIGlmIHlvdeKAmWQg cHJlZmVyIG11bHRpcGxleGVkLg0KDQpUaHVzLCBmb3IgcHJvcGVyIGZhbGxiYWNrLCBhbiBvZmZl cmVyIG5lZWRzIHRvIG9idGFpbiBjYW5kaWRhdGVzIGZvciBib3RoIGNvbXBvbmVudHMsIGJ1dCBh biBhbnN3ZXJlciBjYW4gb2J0YWluIG9ubHkgY29tcG9uZW50IDEgaWYgdGhlIG9mZmVyZXIgb2Zm ZXJlZCBtdWx0aXBsZXhpbmcgYW5kIGl0IHdhbnRzIHRvIHVzZSBpdC4NCg0KVGh1cywgSSB0aGlu ayBpY2Utc2lwLXNkcCBuZWVkcyB0byBzYXkgdGhhdCBvZmZlcnMgTVVTVCBvYnRhaW4gY2FuZGlk YXRlcyBmb3IgYm90aCBSVFAgYW5kIFJUQ1AsIGZvciBiYWNrd2FyZCBjb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5LiAg SUNFLWJpcyBwcm9wZXIgY2FuIG1ha2UgdGhpcyBjb25kaXRpb25hbCwgdGhvdWdoLg== From nobody Tue Oct 20 07:23:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5091A3B9F for ; 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Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:22:55 +0200 To: Jonathan Lennox References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= Message-ID: <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:22:55 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6Dn1qYQcsGMYtvF2ot9i8+z+zA 5LFkyU8mj7Znd9gDmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mrb2dbEV7BWsWD3lMlsD4zPeLkZODgkBE4lL 25YxQthiEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4yijxcmI/O4SzjlHiZvchVpAqYQFbifuNx8A6RAQ0JC4++8AG YgsJxEl8unKRqYuRg4NZQFHi5V41kDAbUPnv9j1MIDavgLZE6++fzCA2i4CqxIRb38FGigqk SRy+9oEVokZQ4uTMJywgYziBelfsYgEJMwtYSMycf54RwpaXaN46mxliq6rE1X+vGCcwCs5C 0j0LScssJC0LGJlXMYoWpxYX56YbGemlFmUmFxfn5+nlpZZsYgSG6sEtv612MB587niIUYCD UYmH90G6apgQa2JZcWXuIUZpDhYlcd5mpgehQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhg5 DHYvvHQ7w+bUcSmNG4v8xezYI95b2x6Z+UH+24SZazOWBKS7O4tF/DR5tiesP7S7I/8Gc4BL QGC13IfuS5sTJ1Y16C44ffq9h8LtabnPD2VwRzNyuUdcbjB/GDXr8rGbTyf2vQoOl6/vaMo2 NdRNyXGamndUTu79gtU/Sw8sO+22tF06eY4SS3FGoqEWc1FxIgDP08U/NgIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:23:09 -0000 On 20/10/15 16:55, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 8:19 AM, Ari Keränen >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Currently the ICE-bis spec says about RTCP and components following >> [1]: >> >> For RTP-based media streams, the RTP itself has a component ID of >> 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP, it >> MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an agent is using both RTP and >> RTCP, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K >> IP addresses. >> >> >> However, if implementation is multiplexing both RTP and RTCP in the >> same port -- which seems to be more and more common practice today >> -- this "MUST" obviously isn't true. And in general we are now >> recommending to not use multiple candidates. Therefore, I'd suggest >> clarifying this with something like: >> >> For RTP-based media streams, unless both RTP and RTCP are >> multiplexed in the same UDP port, the RTP itself has a component ID >> of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP >> without multiplexing, it MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an >> agent is using both RTP and RTCP in separate components, it would >> end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K IP addresses. >> >> >> And also make similar changes to other places where separate >> component IDs are discussed. > > I think “using” multiplexing is vague — if you’re prepared to fall > back to non-multiplexed, you need to obtain candidates for both > components, even if you’d prefer multiplexed. Thanks Jonathan! What would be a better word(ing) for this in the ICE bis context? The proper fallback text can then be included in the SDP draft. > Thus, for proper fallback, an offerer needs to obtain candidates for > both components, but an answerer can obtain only component 1 if the > offerer offered multiplexing and it wants to use it. > > Thus, I think ice-sip-sdp needs to say that offers MUST obtain > candidates for both RTP and RTCP, for backward compatibility. > ICE-bis proper can make this conditional, though. Makes sense to me. This also relates to the discussion Christer started at the MMUSIC list. Cheers, Ari From nobody Tue Oct 20 07:42:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8AB1A6F6F for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58CoaaYk4UVW for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-f171.google.com (mail-ig0-f171.google.com [209.85.213.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50B0D1A6F41 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbhv6 with SMTP id hv6so15876319igb.0 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:cc:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dKLnJpHk3oRuPxAohoI2O4BaZI1eBW0dxga1jCBrhQo=; b=FsoroH4dT0Dc7/57k56CW35GybF9toCJUupeYI7aMGxDbpunsT/OjpH7Xb5edfyNd8 mHRR/RkYoHOstAGgq8Jj5aZOrxS28OPeQauczS2/CIEEO2FGYrUh8Wek32Y/B2EbN2t8 C+zXNoCSQkuJHFQ42idaWBdIUKGsydKuTm9eYQhHIQtPcgbbjABP0MeeFLdok6M7LYk4 7+lLvphTIZ524liL/YJvFZ7g8dOj+gLsAR+mMt+jzrKD0B7xtkOH+Zr3tdPnYkJ74+Px thIEpmjLQW4RCXH2NtQ7d9L+LYOXfXCGbZAK7AS9AzbkotrD8fxRFMFCdtLqRKRSfQvf jGDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQne8BCIzIDPW+1no4MrsMUxvk4CwcgQL1vACFtj7SJgJM2ZfeuENlxuyKmNKx6GmmKJ1VJI X-Received: by 10.50.20.74 with SMTP id l10mr379605ige.2.1445352133625; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local (c-73-34-202-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net. [73.34.202.214]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c203sm1578620ioe.9.2015.10.20.07.42.11 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:42:11 -0700 (PDT) To: ice@ietf.org From: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet Message-ID: <562652C2.5010807@andyet.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:42:10 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "Pal Martinsen \(palmarti\)" Subject: [Ice] checklist states X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:42:15 -0000 In a review of the trickle-ice spec, Pal Martinsen asked whether we might want to modify the state chart for checklist states. Right now, we have states of Running, Failed, and Succeeded. Pal suggested that it might be reasonable to add states of Frozen and Waiting to ICEbis, and to add a state of Waiting for Candidates to trickle-ice. (Pal, do you make a distinction between "Waiting" and "Waiting for Candidates"?) WG discussion of this topic would be good. :-) Peter From nobody Tue Oct 20 07:43:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EE11A6F71 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CKREaNuZudDt for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1611A1A6F41 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:43:46 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-9e-56265321cdb2 Received: from ESESSHC009.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5E.C5.27359.12356265; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:43:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.167]) by ESESSHC009.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.45]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:43:44 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: ICE WG Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00 Thread-Index: AQHRC0W4bHj55Os+mkWf1KdAT4g4hA== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:43:43 +0000 Message-ID: <9D1ABB44-9DDB-42E3-8383-39EE9077963B@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja5isFqYwcwOYYutP/ewW3y7UGtx bflrVgdmjwWbSj2WLPnJ5PHl8me2AOYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErozTJx4xFqxkqXhyp4WxgXEP cxcjB4eEgInEkxkRXYycQKaYxIV769lAbCGBo4wSH39bdzFyAdlLGCUWL97IDJJgE7CXmLzm IyOILSIgKdHyZyMrSBGzwBRGiUPnX4F1CwuYARW1soEsEBGwllhw2heiXk9i5+1eVhCbRUBV Yv+mP2AzeYFmvrj8CGwmI9AR30+tYQKxmQXEJW49mc8EcZyAxJI955khbFGJl4//sULYShKN S56wQtTrSdyYOoUNwraWuL5qFVRcW2LZwtdQuwQlTs58wjKBUXQWkhWzkLTPQtI+C0n7LCTt CxhZVzGKFqcWJ+WmGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIERtPBLb8NdjC+fO54iFGAg1GJh/dBumqY EGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXHeZqYHoUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmpxYcYmTg4pRoYZyUGql77cs9O 8XTY5Yv2UvKyBZsCRaxmbJgX7sfesXheVuizbPM3JVL/tq9qsF95f6PD95UOHgvX5Ccn36qf dtNdo2ffk9t/XHN0LR4zMdgLPi3/aTp1x1u+J9fPhAUxp5qG/Zl6fEY0n3pB6JNPOgaPjkvy 2XXP2ODPZfBdKrco8OaU+MxLSizFGYmGWsxFxYkADQfTFIcCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: Peter Thatcher , "draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [Ice] WGLC for draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:43:49 -0000 ICE WG, We are starting a two week Working Group Last Call for "ICE Multihomed and = IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Fairness" draft as Informational document: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00 Please review the draft and provide any comments you may have on the docume= nt by Tuesday, November 3, 2015.=20 Comments should be sent to the document authors and to the ICE WG list. If = you review the document but do not have any comments, please send a note to= that effect as well.=20 Thanks,=20 Ari & Peter= From nobody Tue Oct 20 13:46:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067081B2C8B for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tegj4hcDia9Z for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 356011B2BF7 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073110.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t9KKZAXL006403; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:38:49 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1xenmhwufd-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:38:49 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:38:48 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= Thread-Topic: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis Thread-Index: AQHRCz3KcLJAWBYa1U+3YXgsYQP18550u02AgAAHqICAAGkEgA== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:38:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <374060F6DF130646907833499295A1DC@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-10-20_13:2015-10-20,2015-10-20,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1508030000 definitions=main-1510200330 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:46:43 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE9jdCAyMCwgMjAxNSwgYXQgMTA6MjIgQU0sIEFyaSBLZXLDpG5lbiA8YXJpLmtlcmFu ZW5AZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDIwLzEwLzE1IDE2OjU1LCBKb25hdGhh biBMZW5ub3ggd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4gT24gT2N0IDIwLCAyMDE1LCBhdCA4OjE5IEFNLCBBcmkgS2Vy w6RuZW4gPGFyaS5rZXJhbmVuQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4NCj4+PiB3cm90ZToNCj4+PiANCj4+PiBI aSBhbGwsDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gQ3VycmVudGx5IHRoZSBJQ0UtYmlzIHNwZWMgc2F5cyBhYm91dCBS VENQIGFuZCBjb21wb25lbnRzIGZvbGxvd2luZw0KPj4+IFsxXToNCj4+PiANCj4+PiBGb3IgUlRQ LWJhc2VkIG1lZGlhIHN0cmVhbXMsIHRoZSBSVFAgaXRzZWxmIGhhcyBhIGNvbXBvbmVudCBJRCBv Zg0KPj4+IDEsIGFuZCBSVENQIGEgY29tcG9uZW50IElEIG9mIDIuICBJZiBhbiBhZ2VudCBpcyB1 c2luZyBSVENQLCBpdA0KPj4+IE1VU1Qgb2J0YWluIGEgY2FuZGlkYXRlIGZvciBpdC4gIElmIGFu IGFnZW50IGlzIHVzaW5nIGJvdGggUlRQIGFuZA0KPj4+IFJUQ1AsIGl0IHdvdWxkIGVuZCB1cCB3 aXRoIDIqSyBob3N0IGNhbmRpZGF0ZXMgaWYgYW4gYWdlbnQgaGFzIEsNCj4+PiBJUCBhZGRyZXNz ZXMuDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gSG93ZXZlciwgaWYgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gaXMgbXVsdGlw bGV4aW5nIGJvdGggUlRQIGFuZCBSVENQIGluIHRoZQ0KPj4+IHNhbWUgcG9ydCAtLSB3aGljaCBz ZWVtcyB0byBiZSBtb3JlIGFuZCBtb3JlIGNvbW1vbiBwcmFjdGljZSB0b2RheQ0KPj4+IC0tIHRo aXMgIk1VU1QiIG9idmlvdXNseSBpc24ndCB0cnVlLiBBbmQgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCB3ZSBhcmUgbm93 DQo+Pj4gcmVjb21tZW5kaW5nIHRvIG5vdCB1c2UgbXVsdGlwbGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlcy4gVGhlcmVm b3JlLCBJJ2Qgc3VnZ2VzdA0KPj4+IGNsYXJpZnlpbmcgdGhpcyB3aXRoIHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtl Og0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IEZvciBSVFAtYmFzZWQgbWVkaWEgc3RyZWFtcywgdW5sZXNzIGJvdGggUlRQ IGFuZCBSVENQIGFyZQ0KPj4+IG11bHRpcGxleGVkIGluIHRoZSBzYW1lIFVEUCBwb3J0LCB0aGUg UlRQIGl0c2VsZiBoYXMgYSBjb21wb25lbnQgSUQNCj4+PiBvZiAxLCBhbmQgUlRDUCBhIGNvbXBv bmVudCBJRCBvZiAyLiAgSWYgYW4gYWdlbnQgaXMgdXNpbmcgUlRDUA0KPj4+IHdpdGhvdXQgbXVs dGlwbGV4aW5nLCBpdCBNVVNUIG9idGFpbiBhIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBmb3IgaXQuICBJZiBhbg0KPj4+ IGFnZW50IGlzIHVzaW5nIGJvdGggUlRQIGFuZCBSVENQIGluIHNlcGFyYXRlIGNvbXBvbmVudHMs IGl0IHdvdWxkDQo+Pj4gZW5kIHVwIHdpdGggMipLIGhvc3QgY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBpZiBhbiBhZ2Vu dCBoYXMgSyBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMuDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gQW5kIGFsc28gbWFrZSBzaW1p bGFyIGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gb3RoZXIgcGxhY2VzIHdoZXJlIHNlcGFyYXRlDQo+Pj4gY29tcG9uZW50 IElEcyBhcmUgZGlzY3Vzc2VkLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBJIHRoaW5rIOKAnHVzaW5n4oCdIG11bHRpcGxl eGluZyBpcyB2YWd1ZSDigJQgaWYgeW914oCZcmUgcHJlcGFyZWQgdG8gZmFsbA0KPj4gYmFjayB0 byBub24tbXVsdGlwbGV4ZWQsIHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIG9idGFpbiBjYW5kaWRhdGVzIGZvciBib3Ro DQo+PiBjb21wb25lbnRzLCBldmVuIGlmIHlvdeKAmWQgcHJlZmVyIG11bHRpcGxleGVkLg0KPiAN Cj4gVGhhbmtzIEpvbmF0aGFuIQ0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIGJldHRlciB3b3JkKGlu ZykgZm9yIHRoaXMgaW4gdGhlIElDRSBiaXMgY29udGV4dD8gVGhlIHByb3BlciBmYWxsYmFjayB0 ZXh0IGNhbiB0aGVuIGJlIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBTRFAgZHJhZnQuDQoNCk1heWJlIHNvbWV0 aGluZyBsaWtlLCDigJxmb3IgUlRQLWJhc2VkIG1lZGlhIHN0cmVhbXMsIHVubGVzcyBib3RoIFJU UCBhbmQgUlRDUCB3aWxsIGRlZmluaXRlbHkgYmUgbXVsdGlwbGV4ZWQgb24gdGhlIHNhbWUgVURQ IHBvcnTigJ0sIHdpdGggYSBub3RlIHRvIHRoZSBlZmZlY3Qgb2Yg4oCcTm90ZSB0aGF0IGlmIFJU Q1AgbXVsdGlwbGV4aW5nIGlzIGJlaW5nIG9mZmVyZWQgaW4gYSB3YXkgdGhhdCBhbGxvd3MgZmFs bGJhY2sgdG8gYSBub24tbXVsdGlwbGV4aW5nIG1vZGUsIHRoZSBvZmZlcmVyIE1VU1QgZ2F0aGVy IGNhbmRpZGF0ZXMgd2l0aCBhIGNvbXBvbmVudCBJRCBvZiAyLCBidXQgdGhlIGFuc3dlcmVyIG5l ZWQgbm90LCBpZiBpdCB3aXNoZXMgdG8gdXNlIG11bHRpcGxleGluZzsgaW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlLCBj b25uZWN0aXZpdHkgY2hlY2tzIHdpbGwgbm90IGJlIGRvbmUgb24gdGhlIGNvbXBvbmVudCAyIGNh bmRpZGF0ZXMuIg0KDQo+PiBUaHVzLCBmb3IgcHJvcGVyIGZhbGxiYWNrLCBhbiBvZmZlcmVyIG5l ZWRzIHRvIG9idGFpbiBjYW5kaWRhdGVzIGZvcg0KPj4gYm90aCBjb21wb25lbnRzLCBidXQgYW4g YW5zd2VyZXIgY2FuIG9idGFpbiBvbmx5IGNvbXBvbmVudCAxIGlmIHRoZQ0KPj4gb2ZmZXJlciBv ZmZlcmVkIG11bHRpcGxleGluZyBhbmQgaXQgd2FudHMgdG8gdXNlIGl0Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaHVz LCBJIHRoaW5rIGljZS1zaXAtc2RwIG5lZWRzIHRvIHNheSB0aGF0IG9mZmVycyBNVVNUIG9idGFp bg0KPj4gY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBmb3IgYm90aCBSVFAgYW5kIFJUQ1AsIGZvciBiYWNrd2FyZCBjb21w YXRpYmlsaXR5Lg0KPj4gSUNFLWJpcyBwcm9wZXIgY2FuIG1ha2UgdGhpcyBjb25kaXRpb25hbCwg dGhvdWdoLg0KPiANCj4gTWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UgdG8gbWUuIFRoaXMgYWxzbyByZWxhdGVzIHRvIHRo ZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIENocmlzdGVyIHN0YXJ0ZWQgYXQgdGhlIE1NVVNJQyBsaXN0Lg0KPiANCj4g DQo+IENoZWVycywNCj4gQXJpDQo+IA0KPiANCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 21 02:24:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C295D1A0382 for ; 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Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:24:34 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:24:34 -0500 From: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" To: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet Thread-Topic: checklist states Thread-Index: AQHRC0V5Hd6x5VJWe02IAO3A3ewOAZ52AfOA Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:24:34 +0000 Message-ID: <8C9F86E3-4005-4B25-B84D-C59859C203E6@cisco.com> References: <562652C2.5010807@andyet.net> In-Reply-To: <562652C2.5010807@andyet.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.74.36] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] checklist states X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:24:55 -0000 DQo+IE9uIDIwIE9jdCAyMDE1LCBhdCAxNjo0MiwgUGV0ZXIgU2FpbnQtQW5kcmUgLSAmeWV0IDxw ZXRlckBhbmR5ZXQubmV0PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEluIGEgcmV2aWV3IG9mIHRoZSB0cmlja2xl LWljZSBzcGVjLCBQYWwgTWFydGluc2VuIGFza2VkIHdoZXRoZXIgd2UgbWlnaHQgd2FudCB0byBt b2RpZnkgdGhlIHN0YXRlIGNoYXJ0IGZvciBjaGVja2xpc3Qgc3RhdGVzLiBSaWdodCBub3csIHdl IGhhdmUgc3RhdGVzIG9mIFJ1bm5pbmcsIEZhaWxlZCwgYW5kIFN1Y2NlZWRlZC4gUGFsIHN1Z2dl c3RlZCB0aGF0IGl0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgdG8gYWRkIHN0YXRlcyBvZiBGcm96ZW4g YW5kIFdhaXRpbmcgdG8gSUNFYmlzLA0KVGhlIHJlYXNvbiBmb3IgdGhpcyBpcyBpbiBzZWN0aW9u IDUuNi40IGp1c3QgYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBzdGF0ZXMgYXJlIGRlZmluZWQuDQoNCk9uZSBvZiB0aGUg Y2hlY2sgbGlzdHMgd2lsbCBoYXZlIHNvbWUgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHBhaXJzIGluIHRoZSBXYWl0aW5n DQpzdGF0ZSwgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciBjaGVjayBsaXN0cyB3aWxsIGhhdmUgYWxsIG9mIHRoZWly IHBhaXJzIGluIHRoZQ0KRnJvemVuIHN0YXRlLiAgQSBjaGVjayBsaXN0IHdpdGggYXQgbGVhc3Qg b25lIHBhaXIgdGhhdCBpcyBXYWl0aW5nIGlzDQpjYWxsZWQgYW4gYWN0aXZlIGNoZWNrIGxpc3Qs IGFuZCBhIGNoZWNrIGxpc3Qgd2l0aCBhbGwgcGFpcnMgRnJvemVuDQppcyBjYWxsZWQgYSBmcm96 ZW4gY2hlY2sgbGlzdC4NCg0KRnJvbSBhIGRldmVsb3BtZW50IHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlIGl0IG1ha2Ug c2Vuc2UgKHRvIG1lIGF0IGxlYXN0KSB0byBoYXZlIHRoZSBjaGVja2xpc3Qgc3RhdGUgYmUgc2V0 IHRvIGZyb3plbi4NCg0KTWF5YmUgdGhlIG1haW4gcXVlc3Rpb24gdG8gZGlzY3VzcyBmaXJzdCBp cywgZG8gd2Ugc3RpbGwgbmVlZCB0aGUgZnJvemVuIGFsZ29yaXRobT8gSG93IG11Y2ggZG9lcyBp dCByZWFsbHkgc3BlZWQgdXAgSUNFPyBJcyBpdCB3b3J0aCB0aGUgY29tcGxleGl0eT8NCg0KPiBh bmQgdG8gYWRkIGEgc3RhdGUgb2YgV2FpdGluZyBmb3IgQ2FuZGlkYXRlcyB0byB0cmlja2xlLWlj ZS4gKFBhbCwgZG8geW91IG1ha2UgYSBkaXN0aW5jdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIOKAnFdhaXRpbmciIGFu ZCAiV2FpdGluZyBmb3IgQ2FuZGlkYXRlcyI/KQ0KPiANCg0KWWVzLCDigJxXYWl0aW5n4oCdIGlz IGEgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHBhaXIgc3RhdGUuIOKAnFdhaXRpbmcgZm9yIGNhbmRpZGF0ZXPigJ0gc2hv dWxkIGJlIGEgY2hlY2tsaXN0IHN0YXRlIGluZGljYXRpb24gdGhhdCBpdCBoYXMgbm8gYWN0aXZl IGNoZWNrcywgYnV0IGhhdmUgbm90IHlldCByZWNlaXZlIGFuZCBlbmQgb2YgY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBz aWduYWwuIA0KDQo+IFdHIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyB3b3VsZCBiZSBnb29kLiA6 LSkNCj4gDQpZdXANCg0KDQouLS4NClDDpWwtRXJpaw0KPiBQZXRlcg0KPiANCg0K From nobody Wed Oct 28 06:23:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3111A8852 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:23:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kdt0AOK3-U-r for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A2831A8851 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:23:19 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79626d000004282-3e-5630cc44c7a1 Received: from ESESSHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.33]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5F.75.17026.44CC0365; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:23:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.248.2; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:22:30 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828044E9B6; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:22:33 +0200 (EET) Received: from As-MacBook-Air.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2894E97E; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:21:57 +0200 (EET) To: Jonathan Lennox References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= Message-ID: <5630CBF0.6030604@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 22:21:52 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7oq7LGYMwg/YPFhbfLtRa7F98ntmB yWPJkp9MHm3P7rAHMEVx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZXy4cJutoFuhYtPOFrYGxhWSXYycHBICJhIX ut6zQ9hiEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4zCjxsGMlK4SzjVHiwvweRghnLZDz/hdU2XJGiW2HvzCD9AsL 2ErcbzzGCGKLCGhIXHz2AapoM6PE1r23gRwODmYBRYmXe9VAatiA6n+372ECsXkFtCW2/brF BFLCIqAqcXoVP0hYVCBN4vC1D6wQJYISJ2c+YQGxOYFaj7//B3Y2s4CFxMz55xkhbHmJ5q2z mSHeUZO4em4TmC0ENPLqv1eMExhFZiEZNQtJ+ywk7QsYmVcxihanFhfnphsZ66UWZSYXF+fn 6eWllmxiBAb+wS2/dXcwrn7teIhRgINRiYfXoEIvTIg1say4MvcQowQHs5II74dVBmFCvCmJ lVWpRfnxRaU5qcWHGKU5WJTEeVuYHoQKCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbBZJk4OKUaGA0rJ05caPOfa88O cW//R0yXW5/zu53iu/L21K63OXHZZU45f7nvbntvJ3PmRYlPiVNP4qUrV94UPHm/JS96UWro nmVywm258SsXfy67/E64/9POqIUvFqXIFX5jmG3bfYP/03feCzUpDqv+zNtaJWIR57LBdKKP UnHWgjD5HJtNP7+nql+5pKDEUpyRaKjFXFScCACEbHmaeAIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:23:21 -0000 On 21/10/15 05:38, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Ari Keränen >> wrote: >> >> On 20/10/15 16:55, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >>>> On Oct 20, 2015, at 8:19 AM, Ari Keränen >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Currently the ICE-bis spec says about RTCP and components >>>> following [1]: >>>> >>>> For RTP-based media streams, the RTP itself has a component ID >>>> of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP, >>>> it MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an agent is using both >>>> RTP and RTCP, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an >>>> agent has K IP addresses. >>>> >>>> >>>> However, if implementation is multiplexing both RTP and RTCP in >>>> the same port -- which seems to be more and more common >>>> practice today -- this "MUST" obviously isn't true. And in >>>> general we are now recommending to not use multiple candidates. >>>> Therefore, I'd suggest clarifying this with something like: >>>> >>>> For RTP-based media streams, unless both RTP and RTCP are >>>> multiplexed in the same UDP port, the RTP itself has a >>>> component ID of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent >>>> is using RTCP without multiplexing, it MUST obtain a candidate >>>> for it. If an agent is using both RTP and RTCP in separate >>>> components, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an >>>> agent has K IP addresses. >>>> >>>> >>>> And also make similar changes to other places where separate >>>> component IDs are discussed. >>> >>> I think “using” multiplexing is vague — if you’re prepared to >>> fall back to non-multiplexed, you need to obtain candidates for >>> both components, even if you’d prefer multiplexed. >> >> Thanks Jonathan! >> >> What would be a better word(ing) for this in the ICE bis context? >> The proper fallback text can then be included in the SDP draft. > > Maybe something like, “for RTP-based media streams, unless both RTP > and RTCP will definitely be multiplexed on the same UDP port”, with a > note to the effect of “Note that if RTCP multiplexing is being > offered in a way that allows fallback to a non-multiplexing mode, the > offerer MUST gather candidates with a component ID of 2, but the > answerer need not, if it wishes to use multiplexing; in this case, > connectivity checks will not be done on the component 2 candidates." Here's a new paragraph based on your proposal, using the new terminology: Each component has an ID assigned to it, called the component ID. For RTP-based media streams, unless it is known for sure that RTP and RTCP will be multiplexed on the same UDP port, the RTP itself has a component ID of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is using RTCP without multiplexing, it MUST obtain a candidate for it. If an agent is using separate candidate IDs for RTP and RTCP, it would end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K IP addresses. Note that if RTCP multiplexing is being used in a way that allows the Initiating Agent to fall back to a non-multiplexing mode, the Initiating Agent MUST gather candidates also for RTCP, but the Responding Agent need not to, if it wishes to use multiplexing; in this case, connectivity checks will not be done on the component ID 2 candidates. Is that OK? >>> Thus, for proper fallback, an offerer needs to obtain candidates >>> for both components, but an answerer can obtain only component 1 >>> if the offerer offered multiplexing and it wants to use it. >>> >>> Thus, I think ice-sip-sdp needs to say that offers MUST obtain >>> candidates for both RTP and RTCP, for backward compatibility. >>> ICE-bis proper can make this conditional, though. >> >> Makes sense to me. This also relates to the discussion Christer >> started at the MMUSIC list. If the proposed text works for everyone, we'll make the change across the document and update sip-sdp draft too according to the proposal above. Cheers, Ari From nobody Wed Oct 28 06:29:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE71A1A8872 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:29:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CkpKfkpfDAA2 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C16C1A8874 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 06:29:45 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-09-5630cdc7ffac Received: from ESESSHC019.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 02.05.05274.7CDC0365; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:29:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.61]) by ESESSHC019.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:29:43 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , Jonathan Lennox Thread-Topic: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis Thread-Index: AQHRCzGZJhk9k00PcUy8ZD5OF5QLWJ50Rg2AgAAHqICAAGkEgIAMKVcAgAASeFA= Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:29:42 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B96AD4@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> <5630CBF0.6030604@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <5630CBF0.6030604@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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"ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 13:29:48 -0000 SGksDQoNCi4uLg0KDQo+SGVyZSdzIGEgbmV3IHBhcmFncmFwaCBiYXNlZCBvbiB5b3VyIHByb3Bv c2FsLCB1c2luZyB0aGUgbmV3IHRlcm1pbm9sb2d5Og0KPg0KPiAgICBFYWNoIGNvbXBvbmVudCBo YXMgYW4gSUQgYXNzaWduZWQgdG8gaXQsIGNhbGxlZCB0aGUgY29tcG9uZW50IElELg0KPiAgICBG b3IgUlRQLWJhc2VkIG1lZGlhIHN0cmVhbXMsIHVubGVzcyBpdCBpcyBrbm93biBmb3Igc3VyZSB0 aGF0IFJUUCBhbmQNCj4gICAgUlRDUCB3aWxsIGJlIG11bHRpcGxleGVkIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIFVE UCBwb3J0LCB0aGUgUlRQIGl0c2VsZiBoYXMgYQ0KPiAgICBjb21wb25lbnQgSUQgb2YgMSwgYW5k IFJUQ1AgYSBjb21wb25lbnQgSUQgb2YgMi4gIElmIGFuIGFnZW50IGlzDQo+ICAgIHVzaW5nIFJU Q1Agd2l0aG91dCBtdWx0aXBsZXhpbmcsIGl0IE1VU1Qgb2J0YWluIGEgY2FuZGlkYXRlIGZvciBp 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aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pY2UNCg== From nobody Thu Oct 29 23:54:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4751B37E9 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Lnix5sS0BAh for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 193F41B37E8 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79136d0000071e2-8c-5633140c3b89 Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.84]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 88.F7.29154.C0413365; Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:54:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.61]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:53:36 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= , Jonathan Lennox Thread-Topic: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis Thread-Index: AQHRCzGZJhk9k00PcUy8ZD5OF5QLWJ50Rg2AgAAHqICAAGkEgIAMKVcAgAASeFCAAbrbEA== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:53:35 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B9951F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <56263154.9080204@ericsson.com> <34B14ADE-78FA-4A21-8202-F5D65D5AEFD9@vidyo.com> <56264E3F.8050807@ericsson.com> <5630CBF0.6030604@ericsson.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B96AD4@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B96AD4@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbE9RJdHxDjM4PNXG4tvF2ot9i8+z+zA 5LFkyU8mj7Znd9gDmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4MjZfW8NSsFCmYuqk18wNjCfFuhg5OSQETCRu fTvBBGGLSVy4t56ti5GLQ0jgMKNEy+eZ7BDOYkaJ5pXXWLsYOTjYBCwkuv9pg8RFBGYzSkxu u8kMEmcWUJR4uVcNZJCwgK3E3OfzWUFsEQE7ieXzPjJC2GESk2c8A1vGIqAqcedODzOIzSvg K9F14CIzxK6ZTBILdlwCa+YU8JOY8vQFG4jNCHTd91NrwJqZBcQlbj2ZD3W1gMSSPeeZIWxR iZeP/7FC2EoSjUuesELU60ncmDqFDcLWlli28DXUYkGJkzOfsExgFJuFZOwsJC2zkLTMQtKy gJFlFaNocWpxcW66kZFealFmcnFxfp5eXmrJJkZg/Bzc8ttqB+PB546HGAU4GJV4eDfkGIUJ sSaWFVfmHmKU4GBWEuH9fQkoxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnLeZ6UGokEB6Yklqdmpq QWoRTJaJg1OqgZFN49PHvEdXTnto1pr+TgzfK1W3sFEn2/zH4amMfh83lUiJrxHOvHrERXVv fa7xlsDaaGdbaUuZN98mbOdm0ZUxKzeau2v+XWW1d//bZ8oy1Vl4bz+Z/2TzXrHvmndLu4Q2 1WpUp6ixcIq833d+pcy9L3Ou3BQM0v320s9f86lfY3GopK9XghJLcUaioRZzUXEiAEa3T7Wb AgAA Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:54:09 -0000 Hi, Here is some suggested text from myself: "Each component has an ID assigned to it, called the component ID. For RTP-based media streams, unless RTP and RTCP are multiplexed on the same port (RTP/RTCP multiplexing), the RTP has a component ID=20 of 1 and RTCP a component ID of 2. In case of RTP/RTCP multiplexing, a=20 component ID of 1 is used for both RTP and RTCP. When candidates are obtained, unless the agent knows for sure that=20 RTP/RTCP multiplexing will be used (i.e. the agent knows that the other agent also supports, and is willing to use, RTP/RTCP multiplexing),=20 the agent MUST obtain a separate candidate for RTCP. If an agent has obtain= ed a candidate for RTCP, and end up using RTP/RTCP multiplexing, the agent=20 does not need to perform connectivity checks on the RTCP candidate. If an agent is using separate candidates for RTP and RTCP, it will end up with 2*K host candidates if the agent has K IP addresses. NOTE: The responding agent, when obtaining its candidates, will typically=20 know whether the other agent supports RTP/RTCP multiplexing, in which=20 case it will not need to obtain a separate candidate for RTCP." Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: Ice [mailto:ice-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg Sent: 28 October 2015 15:30 To: Ari Ker=E4nen ; Jonathan Lennox Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ice] RTCP multiplexing clarification to ICE bis Hi, ... >Here's a new paragraph based on your proposal, using the new terminology: > > Each component has an ID assigned to it, called the component ID. > For RTP-based media streams, unless it is known for sure that RTP and > RTCP will be multiplexed on the same UDP port, the RTP itself has a > component ID of 1, and RTCP a component ID of 2. If an agent is > using RTCP without multiplexing, it MUST obtain a candidate for it. > If an agent is using separate candidate IDs for RTP and RTCP, it > would end up with 2*K host candidates if an agent has K IP addresses. > Note that if RTCP multiplexing is being used in a way that allows the > Initiating Agent to fall back to a non-multiplexing mode, the > Initiating Agent MUST gather candidates also for RTCP, but the > Responding Agent need not to, if it wishes to use multiplexing; in > this case, connectivity checks will not be done on the component ID 2 > candidates. > > Is that OK? I think the text is a little confusing. I'll try to come up with a suggesti= on in order to (hopefully) make it a little more clear. Regards, Christer >>> Thus, for proper fallback, an offerer needs to obtain candidates for=20 >>> both components, but an answerer can obtain only component 1 if the=20 >>> offerer offered multiplexing and it wants to use it. >>> >>> Thus, I think ice-sip-sdp needs to say that offers MUST obtain=20 >>> candidates for both RTP and RTCP, for backward compatibility. >>> ICE-bis proper can make this conditional, though. >> >> Makes sense to me. This also relates to the discussion Christer=20 >> started at the MMUSIC list. If the proposed text works for everyone, we'll make the change across the d= ocument and update sip-sdp draft too according to the proposal above. Cheers, Ari _______________________________________________ Ice mailing list Ice@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice _______________________________________________ Ice mailing list Ice@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D9F1A8773; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:09:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019090932.15622.9190.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:09:32 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:44 -0700 Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:09:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment Working Group of the IETF. Title : ICE Multihomed and IPv4/IPv6 Dual Stack Fairness Authors : Paal-Erik Martinsen Tirumaleswar Reddy Prashanth Patil Filename : draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This document provides guidelines on how to make Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) conclude faster in multihomed and IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack scenarios where broken paths exist. The provided guidelines are backwards compatible with the original ICE specification. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9071A8787 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:13:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019091322.20833.73932.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:13:22 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:43 -0700 Subject: [Ice] Milestones changed for ice WG X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:13:22 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit Dual-stack Fairness with ICE as Proposed Standard ", added draft-ietf-ice-dualstack-fairness to milestone, removed draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-dualstack-fairness from milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683231A88ED; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:21:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019162127.18268.67432.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:21:27 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:44 -0700 Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:21:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment Working Group of the IETF. Title : Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE): A Protocol for Network Address Translator (NAT) Traversal Authors : Ari Keranen Jonathan Rosenberg Filename : draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00.txt Pages : 92 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This document describes a protocol for Network Address Translator (NAT) traversal for UDP-based multimedia. This protocol is called Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE). ICE makes use of the Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) protocol and its extension, Traversal Using Relay NAT (TURN). This document obsoletes RFC 5245. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1503E1A89AA for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:23:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019162306.16336.51939.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:23:06 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:44 -0700 Subject: [Ice] Milestones changed for ice WG X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:23:06 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit a revision of ICE (RFC 5245) as Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp remains in MMUSIC) ", added draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis to milestone, removed draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc5245bis from milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E011B2D54; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:59:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019215913.23532.40223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:59:13 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:44 -0700 Cc: ice@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-trickle-00.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:59:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment Working Group of the IETF. Title : Trickle ICE: Incremental Provisioning of Candidates for the Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) Protocol Authors : Emil Ivov Eric Rescorla Justin Uberti Peter Saint-Andre Filename : draft-ietf-ice-trickle-00.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This document describes an extension to the Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) protocol that allows ICE agents to send and receive candidates incrementally rather than exchanging complete lists. With such incremental provisioning, ICE agents can begin connectivity checks while they are still gathering candidates and considerably shorten the time necessary for ICE processing to complete. This mechanism is called "trickle ICE". The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-trickle/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-trickle-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:30:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B5A1B2D5C for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:01:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019220159.31953.4141.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:01:59 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:30:44 -0700 Subject: [Ice] Milestones changed for ice WG X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:01:59 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit Trickle ICE as Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip remains in MMUSIC)", added draft-ietf-ice-trickle to milestone, removed draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice from milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ice/charter/ From nobody Sat Oct 31 07:42:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA2C1B3939 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ALPyQiEHS81y for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CC411B3937 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 07:42:57 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79626d000006adf-a1-5634d36f27f9 Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.21]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F6.49.27359.F63D4365; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:42:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB202.ericsson.se ([169.254.2.85]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:42:51 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Mails stuck in the moderator queue (fixed) Thread-Index: AQHRE+pqzxiLWJ1SXEG9VKpv2gdXjg== Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:42:50 +0000 Message-ID: <0EB93005-E93E-4B30-BA6F-7750C2C815F8@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7qG7+ZZMwg10TVCy+Xah1YPRYsuQn UwBjFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAlfGiWUyBeeZKjrbLjA1MLYxdTFycEgImEhMOszWxcgJZIpJXLi3 Hsjm4hASOMwoMav3LyOEs5hR4uuGdUwgVWwC9hKT13xkBLFFBBQlZrY8YwYZJCxgLHH0TBFE 2ELixIbfUCV6Eh9+vwdrZRFQleg+sJUFxOYFGnN47kIwmxFo8fdTa8BqmAXEJW49mc8EcZCA xJI955khbFGJl4//sULYShJrD29ngajXk7gxdQobhG0t0du2nRHC1pZYtvA1M8QuQYmTM5+w TGAUmYVkxSwk7bOQtM9C0j4LSfsCRtZVjKLFqcVJuelGRnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5qSWbGIHRcHDL b4MdjC+fOx5iFOBgVOLhNZhvEibEmlhWXJl7iFGCg1lJhNfyCFCINyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQ ozQHi5I4bzPTg1AhgfTEktTs1NSC1CKYLBMHp1QDY4Ugc3juxCyfIo+P5SmWWv0PN7860TyZ r9vN52er6Ybbrwq6DD4GPFS0ComRtYqJ6lrSHKB19/57NmETb8uPR8+IMn9fvf2Gh1/tn8v9 L0SYnc7Ibv/Esm95YLu2XPOPeYG7VvC8lF1puOL3XMfZRgf33dd7ofz2+vsHp9i+rprKeflS 5mH9t0osxRmJhlrMRcWJAJTGU9iCAgAA Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Mails stuck in the moderator queue (fixed) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:42:58 -0000 FYI; the e-mails from the secretariat and id-announce that were just sent t= o the e-mail list were actually stuck in the mailman moderator queue and th= ere was no announcement to the owners of the list due to a bug in the syste= m. 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Cheers, Ari= From nobody Sat Oct 31 15:40:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE831B3F2D for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:40:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.267 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.267 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yrocu1mfhgU1 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6B4D1B3F2B for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073110.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t9VMdwJD026088 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:39:58 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1xr479uthu-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:39:58 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:39:57 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Trickle ICE comments Thread-Index: AQHRFC0R0K94KR2ApUqXORc1G+6/Pw== Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:39:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [133.93.82.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4EC99B853B7DA74CA4F16003E525E8AF@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.15.21, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-10-31_15:2015-10-29,2015-10-31,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1508030000 definitions=main-1510310423 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Trickle ICE comments X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:40:01 -0000 SGV5IGFsbCwgc29tZSBjb21tZW50cyBvbiBUcmlja2xlIElDRS4NCg0KU3Vic3RhbnRpdmUgLyBw cm90b2NvbDoNCg0KSeKAmW0gY29uY2VybmVkIHRoYXQgdHJpY2tsZSdzIHVuZnJlZXppbmcgYWxn b3JpdGhtIGRvZXNu4oCZdCB3b3JrIGNvcnJlY3RseSBpZiBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgY29tcG9uZW50 IGRvZXNu4oCZdCBoYXZlIGEgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHdpdGggYSBnaXZlbiBmb3VuZGF0aW9uLiAgKFRo ZSBwcmltYXJ5IHVzZSBjYXNlIEkgaGF2ZSBpbiBtaW5kIGlzIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIG1lZGlhLCB3 aGVyZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgY29ubmVjdGlvbnMgaGF2ZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaG9zdCBhZGRyZXNzZXM7 IGJ1dCB0aGlzIGNhbiBhbHNvIG9jY3VyIGlmLCBlLmcuLCBvbmUgY29tcG9uZW504oCZcyBUVVJO IGFsbG9jYXRpb24gZmFpbHMuKQ0KDQpWYW5pbGxhIElDRSBzYXlzIHRoYXQgYSBjYW5kaWRhdGUg cGFpciBpcyB1bmZyb3plbiBpZiBpdCBpcyB0aGUgZmlyc3QgaW5zdGFuY2Ugb2YgdGhhdCBwYWly LCB3aGljaCBpc27igJl0IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IHRoZSBmaXJzdCBjb21wb25lbnQgb2YgdGhlIGZp cnN0IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24uDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgaW4gb3JkZXIgdG8gaGFuZGxlIHRoaXMgY2FzZSwg dGhlcmUgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgYSB3YXkgZm9yIHRyaWNrbGUgdG8gaW5kaWNhdGUg4oCcbm8gY2Fu ZGlkYXRlIHdpdGggdGhpcyBmb3VuZGF0aW9uIHdpbGwgYmUgZm9ydGhjb21pbmcgb24gdGhpcyBj b21wb25lbnQu4oCdICBUaGlzIHdvdWxkIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgc2VudCBmb3IgZXZlcnkgY29tcG9u ZW50IHByaW9yIHRvIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBvbmUgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGZvdW5kYXRpb24gd2lsbCBhcHBl YXIuICBJdCBjYW4gZWl0aGVyIGJlIHNlbnQgdXAgZnJvbnQgKGlmIHRoZSBhZ2VudCBrbm93cyBh IHByaW9yaSB0aGUgZm91bmRhdGlvbnMgd29u4oCZdCBiZSB1c2VkLCBhcyBpbiB0aGUgZGlzdHJp YnV0ZWQgbWVkaWEgY2FzZSksIG9yIHRyaWNrbGVkIGxhdGVyIChmb3IgdGhlIGNhc2Ugd2hlcmUg Z2F0aGVyaW5nIGZhaWxzKS4gIEVuZC1vZi1jYW5kaWRhdGVzIHdvdWxkIGFsc28gaW1wbGljaXRs eSBpbmRpY2F0ZSDigJxubyBjYW5kaWRhdGUgZm9ydGhjb21pbmcs4oCdIG9mIGNvdXJzZSwgYnV0 IEkgdGhpbmsgaXTigJlzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSB0byBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGlzIHNvb25lci4NCg0KSSB0 aGluayBpbnRyb2R1Y2luZyB0aGlzIHdvdWxkIGFsc28gZWxpbWluYXRlIHRoZSBuZWVkIGZvciB0 aGUgY29uc3RyYWludCBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDggYWJvdXQgd2hhdCBvcmRlciBjYW5kaWRhdGVzIGFy ZSB0cmlja2xlZCBpbjsgaW5zdGVhZCwgaXQgY2FuIGJlIHRoZSByZWNlaXZlcuKAmXMgcmVzcG9u c2liaWxpdHkgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCB3aGVuIHRoaW5ncyBjYW4gYmUgdW5mcm96ZW4uDQoNCg0K RWRpdG9yaWFsOg0KDQpTZWN0aW9uIDUgbm93IHVzZXMgMC4wLjAuMCBmb3IgdGhlIOKAnG5vIGNh bmRpZGF0ZXMgeWV04oCdIGM9IGxpbmUsIGJ1dCBub25ldGhlbGVzcyBzdGlsbCBnaXZlcyBhIGp1 c3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIHVzaW5nIDo6Lg0KDQoNCg==