From nobody Tue Jan 5 13:05:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39B91A9125 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:05:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.013 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.013 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id stRtwKgS2YU2 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A407E1A912B for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from aither.local (unknown [73.34.202.214]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 741D541384; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:07:00 -0700 (MST) To: "ice@ietf.org" From: Peter Saint-Andre Message-ID: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:05:31 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 21:05:35 -0000 A few months ago, Emil Ivov and I chatted off-list about how to specify the handling of ICE restarts in the context of Trickle ICE. As I recall the conversation, we thought that one possible approach would be to send a new ufrag and pwd without triggering a full offer/answer exchange. This should be OK because Trickle (and ICE itself) can be used with application protocols that are not tied to O/A. Although there is an SDP dependency because of the syntax of the a= line, we have disengaged Trickle ICE from SDP, so that shouldn't be a deciding factor, either. Also, if the sender doesn't include a media description then a new offer might not be necessary anyway. Do WG participants feel this is something we should cover in one of our documents? If so, does it belong in the Trickle spec or in ICEbis? Related GitHub issue here: https://github.com/ice-wg/trickle/issues/3 Thanks! Peter From nobody Tue Jan 5 13:38:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EE41A92F5 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:38:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RHRkAWgrNESb for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09CF01A92ED for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073109.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u05Lbg1s030882; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:38:12 -0500 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20320wm5wx-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:38:12 -0500 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:38:11 -0600 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Peter Saint-Andre Thread-Topic: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts Thread-Index: AQHRR/5XtFvY4q67VEGuI2lp02Quy57t11YA Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 21:38:10 +0000 Message-ID: <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> References: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.15.21, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2016-01-05_10:2016-01-05,2016-01-05,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1511060000 definitions=main-1601050360 Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 21:38:14 -0000 DQo+IE9uIEphbiA1LCAyMDE2LCBhdCA0OjA1IFBNLCBQZXRlciBTYWludC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRl 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IGZyb20gaXRzIEEyIGNhbmRpZGF0ZXM/ From nobody Tue Jan 5 15:29:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2681AC7E7 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:29:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WHqsjGvl2kiY for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Jan 2016 23:29:23 +0000 Received: from [10.24.93.219] ([10.24.93.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u05NTMs2002440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 5 Jan 2016 23:29:23 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 15:29:22 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> References: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> To: Jonathan Lennox X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: Peter Saint-Andre , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 23:29:26 -0000 On 05-Jan-2016 01:38 pm, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >=20 >> On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre = wrote: >>=20 >> A few months ago, Emil Ivov and I chatted off-list about how to = specify the handling of ICE restarts in the context of Trickle ICE. As I = recall the conversation, we thought that one possible approach would be = to send a new ufrag and pwd without triggering a full offer/answer = exchange. This should be OK because Trickle (and ICE itself) can be used = with application protocols that are not tied to O/A. Although there is = an SDP dependency because of the syntax of the a=3D line, we have = disengaged Trickle ICE from SDP, so that shouldn't be a deciding factor, = either. Also, if the sender doesn't include a media description then a = new offer might not be necessary anyway. >>=20 >> Do WG participants feel this is something we should cover in one of = our documents? If so, does it belong in the Trickle spec or in ICEbis? >=20 > As I mentioned in Yokohama, one issue that'll need to be addressed if = we support this is how the protocol ensures that the two ICE agents = agree on how the agents=E2=80=99 respective ICE restart = =E2=80=9Cgenerations=E2=80=9D (i.e., ufrag / password sets) correspond = to each other. Offer / answer guarantees this, but other protocols = don=E2=80=99t. (This is in fact a problem that we=E2=80=99ve seen in = practice, when torture-testing ICE restarts on Jingle.) >=20 > This is an issue for =E2=80=9Cbase ICE=E2=80=9D, and I think we = vaguely said it was a problem for the Using protocol, but it becomes = much more concrete a problem with Trickle. >=20 > One solution (that Justin proposed, I think) would be to not *require* = that the generations match up =E2=80=94 allow checks to be done against = multiple generations at once. This is a pretty big conceptual change to = ICE=E2=80=99s model, though. >=20 > To recap, the problem we saw was: >=20 > * Agent A sends ICE restart A1, with a new ufrag and password compared = to its previous messaging, and some candidates. > * Agent A sends *another* ICE restart A2, with another new ufrag, = password, and candidates. > * Agent A receives an ICE message B1, with a previously-unseen ufrag = and password, and a set of candidates. >=20 > Should A expect to receive the ufrag it found out about in B1 on the = candidates it put in A1, or on those in A2? Should it send checks to = the B1 candidates from its A1 candidates, or from its A2 candidates? I like Justin's approach, to not require the generations to match up. A = refinement is that when Agent A decided to send its second restart, A2, = it move all of the candidates it had from A1 to a lower priority (below = all of its A2 candidates) in its internal ICE priority list. It does = that de-prioritization whenever it does a restart. That allows B to = respond to previous ICE starts/restarts/re-restarts, so connectivity can = be established. But if connectivity can be established over = higher-priority paths (belonging to more recent restarts), those more = recent paths are preferred. This also provides an answer to your final = question, which is that A should send its checks from its A2 candidates, = as the A1 candidates are very low priority. -d From nobody Tue Jan 5 16:51:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BAEA1A0397 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:51:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.088 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.088 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0195uL4LXAKq for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22b.google.com (mail-oi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88BAB1A0367 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l9so257128594oia.2 for ; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:51:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=jRlXzbBK65FMw1whEOAQbcyw/7z5dgrzRSc1cDK+XXI=; b=Suh2RVVK4iJH/qTU6jUIi0MNt6whsgkLP06ij2426Nh7x8rZgazTP12XRxFGbCy6kk PcQbCM1ibVJ9DI2cy4cgyjy3lPol9mqgGYx6ldshRg8quaEzc/YBkW++ohHNoWAUVZR2 zL+3Buq/kbUzYC8XKeV7BEuYOhQmag+xBLkh3TUFMndfHicHhYRXuUtcMuwQIgRaPlcE aVCngoNOjL3wAsBRZiq24MbtgF1OgaA5ZaxY89WxHaMWhWUDNyifYSVG7TumKujP34ys 9uRlXukbkQ1TG/P/tE/X1XrLT3XdjmaNKi/9tiq+Hcjs0MMae1+6UMnTKp1PS27n+Tsi T+kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=jRlXzbBK65FMw1whEOAQbcyw/7z5dgrzRSc1cDK+XXI=; b=McerwKqqysC9q4FfS2QqZGWcgsKn1RPv7gksTvIe//0tC65X7BlA1jMInHazLyxB5J CEp3G6C6/ih9v4kLcYafNDtTYLt1jfMx0faaFnVuzhKiK48bWf5UPXC20zvA+jgNo98u gMn0hBvqN0mzkeqHGh39dfxrYHu6fhqUkPfYsLqBk5cuPmS1dYaXHTX7DTEXDAddqYGT XmOdoXbEDh4m4FF+DjL9ClsHv1RlQ4lqREdg++HF7QB3M3mA0I8XAyLTLlu5vvDTEKTu FToP5H9LesKQSJDSRGofiCoJ73hUIhiQnM1+keB5W3go1TB/G6hLaJLQVN9Q2M1GDwzV Kn+g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnyWEqfn9eTmaGxCvIQKxr+XvlsLvKcqWSNhazhzwnBQSUKLVV6LvovkNe0qDqTqKR25tpRIYHiqF+DXnP5zNw6IuXd5z0VMQo+Lv7bf4gm7dWT5fo= X-Received: by 10.202.106.212 with SMTP id f203mr34181719oic.106.1452041495883; Tue, 05 Jan 2016 16:51:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.69.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:50:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> References: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> From: Peter Thatcher Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:50:56 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e98d490214905289fc18e Archived-At: Cc: Jonathan Lennox , Peter Saint-Andre , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:51:39 -0000 --001a113e98d490214905289fc18e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable About the idea of how to solve multiple concurrent ICE generations: We have found that having the generations not match up isn't enough (essentially, ping across generations), at least not in our implementation and use cases. Chrome has already been doing that for a long time, but we have still been running into bugs and problems when multiple ICE generations happen at the same time (we ran into this in real world scenarios, not just torture tests). The solution we came up with is to signal the ufrag in the candidate like so: a=3Dcandidate ... ufrag XYZ That way, you know which set of ufrag/pwd it belongs to. In fact, we're also signalling the generation number (we have been doing that for a while)= : a=3Dcandidate ... ufrag XYZ generation 1 That works even better when candidates and ufrag/pwd signalling gets out of order (which also happens in real world scenarios). We've already implemented it and found that it solves the problems, at least so far. If it continues to, we were thinking of proposing it to the standards body. For now it's just an experimental fix to the issues we were running into. About the idea of triggering an ICE restart of sorts by including a ufrag/pwd on the candidate: We have thought about doing this to solve the "walk out the door problem", and presented it briefly in Yokohama, calling it "half ICE restart" or "trickle restart". I think it would be a good approach to triggering ICE restarts in a faster, more robust way that works in a WebRTC context without the application needing to know what the library is doing. However, we have thought of a few scenarios where it is awkward. We're still working through different use cases and experimenting with different things, so we haven't proposed anything concrete yet. But it's our intention to propose something eventually, perhaps ICE half-restart, or perhaps something different. On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:29 PM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing wrot= e: > > On 05-Jan-2016 01:38 pm, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > > > >> On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre > wrote: > >> > >> A few months ago, Emil Ivov and I chatted off-list about how to specif= y > the handling of ICE restarts in the context of Trickle ICE. As I recall t= he > conversation, we thought that one possible approach would be to send a ne= w > ufrag and pwd without triggering a full offer/answer exchange. This shoul= d > be OK because Trickle (and ICE itself) can be used with application > protocols that are not tied to O/A. Although there is an SDP dependency > because of the syntax of the a=3D line, we have disengaged Trickle ICE fr= om > SDP, so that shouldn't be a deciding factor, either. Also, if the sender > doesn't include a media description then a new offer might not be necessa= ry > anyway. > >> > >> Do WG participants feel this is something we should cover in one of ou= r > documents? If so, does it belong in the Trickle spec or in ICEbis? > > > > As I mentioned in Yokohama, one issue that'll need to be addressed if w= e > support this is how the protocol ensures that the two ICE agents agree on > how the agents=E2=80=99 respective ICE restart =E2=80=9Cgenerations=E2=80= =9D (i.e., ufrag / > password sets) correspond to each other. Offer / answer guarantees this, > but other protocols don=E2=80=99t. (This is in fact a problem that we=E2= =80=99ve seen in > practice, when torture-testing ICE restarts on Jingle.) > > > > This is an issue for =E2=80=9Cbase ICE=E2=80=9D, and I think we vaguely= said it was a > problem for the Using protocol, but it becomes much more concrete a probl= em > with Trickle. > > > > One solution (that Justin proposed, I think) would be to not *require* > that the generations match up =E2=80=94 allow checks to be done against m= ultiple > generations at once. This is a pretty big conceptual change to ICE=E2=80= =99s model, > though. > > > > To recap, the problem we saw was: > > > > * Agent A sends ICE restart A1, with a new ufrag and password compared > to its previous messaging, and some candidates. > > * Agent A sends *another* ICE restart A2, with another new ufrag, > password, and candidates. > > * Agent A receives an ICE message B1, with a previously-unseen ufrag an= d > password, and a set of candidates. > > > > Should A expect to receive the ufrag it found out about in B1 on the > candidates it put in A1, or on those in A2? Should it send checks to the > B1 candidates from its A1 candidates, or from its A2 candidates? > > I like Justin's approach, to not require the generations to match up. A > refinement is that when Agent A decided to send its second restart, A2, i= t > move all of the candidates it had from A1 to a lower priority (below all = of > its A2 candidates) in its internal ICE priority list. It does that > de-prioritization whenever it does a restart. That allows B to respond t= o > previous ICE starts/restarts/re-restarts, so connectivity can be > established. But if connectivity can be established over higher-priority > paths (belonging to more recent restarts), those more recent paths are > preferred. This also provides an answer to your final question, which is > that A should send its checks from its A2 candidates, as the A1 candidate= s > are very low priority. > > -d > > > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice > --001a113e98d490214905289fc18e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
About the idea of how to solve multiple concurrent ICE = generations:

We have found that having the generations= not match up isn't enough (essentially, ping across generations), at l= east not in our implementation and use cases.=C2=A0 Chrome has already been= doing that for a long time, but we have still been running into bugs and p= roblems when multiple ICE generations happen at the same time (we ran into = this in real world scenarios, not just torture tests).=C2=A0 The solution w= e came up with is to signal the ufrag in the candidate like so:
a=3Dcandidate ... ufrag XYZ

That way, you kn= ow which set of ufrag/pwd it belongs to.=C2=A0 In fact, we're also sign= alling the generation number (we have been doing that for a while):

a=3Dcandidate ... ufrag XYZ generation 1

That works even better when candidates and ufrag/pwd signalling gets out o= f order (which also happens in real world scenarios).

=
We've already implemented it and found that it solves the = problems, at least so far.=C2=A0 If it continues to, we were thinking of pr= oposing it to the standards body.=C2=A0 For now it's just an experiment= al fix to the issues we were running into. =C2=A0


=

About the idea of triggering an ICE restart of sorts = by including a ufrag/pwd on the candidate:

We have tho= ught about doing this to solve the "walk out the door problem", a= nd presented it briefly in Yokohama, calling it "half ICE restart"= ; or "trickle restart".=C2=A0 I think it would be a good approach= to triggering ICE restarts in a faster, more robust way that works in a We= bRTC context without the application needing to know what the library is do= ing.=C2=A0 However, we have thought of a few scenarios where it is awkward.= =C2=A0 We're still working through different use cases and experimentin= g with different things, so we haven't proposed anything concrete yet.= =C2=A0 But it's our intention to propose something eventually, perhaps = ICE half-restart, or perhaps something different.
=C2=A0

On Tue, Jan 5, 2= 016 at 3:29 PM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote:<= br>

On 05-Jan-2016 01:38 pm, Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote:
>>
>> A few months ago, Emil Ivov and I chatted off-list about how to sp= ecify the handling of ICE restarts in the context of Trickle ICE. As I reca= ll the conversation, we thought that one possible approach would be to send= a new ufrag and pwd without triggering a full offer/answer exchange. This = should be OK because Trickle (and ICE itself) can be used with application = protocols that are not tied to O/A. Although there is an SDP dependency bec= ause of the syntax of the a=3D line, we have disengaged Trickle ICE from SD= P, so that shouldn't be a deciding factor, either. Also, if the sender = doesn't include a media description then a new offer might not be neces= sary anyway.
>>
>> Do WG participants feel this is something we should cover in one o= f our documents? If so, does it belong in the Trickle spec or in ICEbis? >
> As I mentioned in Yokohama, one issue that'll need to be addressed= if we support this is how the protocol ensures that the two ICE agents agr= ee on how the agents=E2=80=99 respective ICE restart =E2=80=9Cgenerations= =E2=80=9D (i.e., ufrag / password sets) correspond to each other.=C2=A0 Off= er / answer guarantees this, but other protocols don=E2=80=99t. (This is in= fact a problem that we=E2=80=99ve seen in practice, when torture-testing I= CE restarts on Jingle.)
>
> This is an issue for =E2=80=9Cbase ICE=E2=80=9D, and I think we vaguel= y said it was a problem for the Using protocol, but it becomes much more co= ncrete a problem with Trickle.
>
> One solution (that Justin proposed, I think) would be to not *require*= that the generations match up =E2=80=94 allow checks to be done against mu= ltiple generations at once. This is a pretty big conceptual change to ICE= =E2=80=99s model, though.
>
> To recap, the problem we saw was:
>
> * Agent A sends ICE restart A1, with a new ufrag and password compared= to its previous messaging, and some candidates.
> * Agent A sends *another* ICE restart A2, with another new ufrag, pass= word, and candidates.
> * Agent A receives an ICE message B1, with a previously-unseen ufrag a= nd password, and a set of candidates.
>
> Should A expect to receive the ufrag it found out about in B1 on the c= andidates it put in A1, or on those in A2?=C2=A0 Should it send checks to t= he B1 candidates from its A1 candidates, or from its A2 candidates?

I like Justin's approach, to not require the generations to matc= h up.=C2=A0 A refinement is that when Agent A decided to send its second re= start, A2, it move all of the candidates it had from A1 to a lower priority= (below all of its A2 candidates) in its internal ICE priority list.=C2=A0 = It does that de-prioritization whenever it does a restart.=C2=A0 That allow= s B to respond to previous ICE starts/restarts/re-restarts, so connectivity= can be established.=C2=A0 But if connectivity can be established over high= er-priority paths (belonging to more recent restarts), those more recent pa= ths are preferred.=C2=A0 This also provides an answer to your final questio= n, which is that A should send its checks from its A2 candidates, as the A1= candidates are very low priority.

-d


_______________________________________________
Ice mailing list
Ice@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice

--001a113e98d490214905289fc18e-- From nobody Wed Jan 6 06:51:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3BF1B2D58 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 06:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XHBkFYYv8Ld8 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 06:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6474B1B2D54 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 06:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073110.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u06EpeOE025939; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 09:51:40 -0500 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20320w4hpr-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Jan 2016 09:51:40 -0500 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:51:39 -0600 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Dan Wing Thread-Topic: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts Thread-Index: AQHRR/5XtFvY4q67VEGuI2lp02Quy57t11YAgAAfEgCAAQGxgA== Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:51:38 +0000 Message-ID: <75DB3094-E077-4B96-9B7E-97EDF28BAA62@vidyo.com> References: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8CEDDEE63C7CC14A8DB2BAEA297612FD@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.15.21, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2016-01-06_09:2016-01-06,2016-01-06,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1511060000 definitions=main-1601060263 Archived-At: Cc: Peter Saint-Andre , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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ZXJlIGFueSB3YXkgd2UgY2FuIGFjaGlldmUgdGhhdCBwcm9wZXJ0eSB3aXRob3V0IGhhdmluZyB0 aGUgb3RoZXIgbGltaXRhdGlvbnMgb2Ygb2ZmZXIvYW5zd2VyPw== From nobody Wed Jan 6 08:21:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0C61A8B84 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:21:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PdY6CT3eUYLU for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:21:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com 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X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,529,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="58957544" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jan 2016 16:21:47 +0000 Received: from [10.24.55.214] ([10.24.55.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u06GLkM2028956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 6 Jan 2016 16:21:47 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <75DB3094-E077-4B96-9B7E-97EDF28BAA62@vidyo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:21:46 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <568C301B.2080102@stpeter.im> <22561E98-0B4E-4447-A1A6-42D281BC22DA@vidyo.com> <3D14A69E-4385-44D4-9AC9-F0293C664EE1@cisco.com> <75DB3094-E077-4B96-9B7E-97EDF28BAA62@vidyo.com> To: Jonathan Lennox X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: Peter Thatcher , Peter Saint-Andre , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 16:21:55 -0000 On 06-Jan-2016 06:51 am, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On Jan 5, 2016, at 6:29 PM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> On 05-Jan-2016 01:38 pm, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> A few months ago, Emil Ivov and I chatted off-list about how to = specify the handling of ICE restarts in the context of Trickle ICE. As I = recall the conversation, we thought that one possible approach would be = to send a new ufrag and pwd without triggering a full offer/answer = exchange. This should be OK because Trickle (and ICE itself) can be used = with application protocols that are not tied to O/A. Although there is = an SDP dependency because of the syntax of the a=3D line, we have = disengaged Trickle ICE from SDP, so that shouldn't be a deciding factor, = either. Also, if the sender doesn't include a media description then a = new offer might not be necessary anyway. >>>>=20 >>>> Do WG participants feel this is something we should cover in one of = our documents? If so, does it belong in the Trickle spec or in ICEbis? >>>=20 >>> As I mentioned in Yokohama, one issue that'll need to be addressed = if we support this is how the protocol ensures that the two ICE agents = agree on how the agents=E2=80=99 respective ICE restart = =E2=80=9Cgenerations=E2=80=9D (i.e., ufrag / password sets) correspond = to each other. Offer / answer guarantees this, but other protocols = don=E2=80=99t. (This is in fact a problem that we=E2=80=99ve seen in = practice, when torture-testing ICE restarts on Jingle.) >>>=20 >>> This is an issue for =E2=80=9Cbase ICE=E2=80=9D, and I think we = vaguely said it was a problem for the Using protocol, but it becomes = much more concrete a problem with Trickle. >>>=20 >>> One solution (that Justin proposed, I think) would be to not = *require* that the generations match up =E2=80=94 allow checks to be = done against multiple generations at once. This is a pretty big = conceptual change to ICE=E2=80=99s model, though. >>>=20 >>> To recap, the problem we saw was: >>>=20 >>> * Agent A sends ICE restart A1, with a new ufrag and password = compared to its previous messaging, and some candidates. >>> * Agent A sends *another* ICE restart A2, with another new ufrag, = password, and candidates. >>> * Agent A receives an ICE message B1, with a previously-unseen ufrag = and password, and a set of candidates. >>>=20 >>> Should A expect to receive the ufrag it found out about in B1 on the = candidates it put in A1, or on those in A2? Should it send checks to = the B1 candidates from its A1 candidates, or from its A2 candidates? >>=20 >> I like Justin's approach, to not require the generations to match up. = A refinement is that when Agent A decided to send its second restart, = A2, it move all of the candidates it had from A1 to a lower priority = (below all of its A2 candidates) in its internal ICE priority list. It = does that de-prioritization whenever it does a restart. That allows B = to respond to previous ICE starts/restarts/re-restarts, so connectivity = can be established. But if connectivity can be established over = higher-priority paths (belonging to more recent restarts), those more = recent paths are preferred. This also provides an answer to your final = question, which is that A should send its checks from its A2 candidates, = as the A1 candidates are very low priority. >=20 > The difficulty with this is that at the time Agent B sent B1, it = presumably hadn=E2=80=99t yet received A2 =E2=80=94 it sent B1 in = response to A1. So it won=E2=80=99t know the B2 ufrag or password, and = won=E2=80=99t start opening pinholes toward the B2 candidates. >=20 > If you knew explicitly that B1 was in response to A1, there wouldn=E2=80= =99t be any ambiguity. This is what offer/answer gives you. Is there = any way we can achieve that property without having the other = limitations of offer/answer? Would introducing a new STUN attribute (and SDP) for Generation Number = (as Peter described in his email), but keeping the ufrag and password = the same for the duration of the session, get us to a happy place? I = mean today we're using a new ufrag (and password) to indicate "ICE = restart", but we're really trying to do something that is not a full ICE = restart (that is, the previous candidates may well still be working fine = and media flowing, but we are trying to see if new candidates work = better). -d From nobody Wed Jan 6 08:38:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C991A8858 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:38:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jOnQgK1OelB for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9185D1A8838 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 08:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073109.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u06GZnSG029692; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:38:32 -0500 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20320wmp5t-2 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Jan 2016 11:38:32 -0500 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 10:38:30 -0600 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Dan Wing Thread-Topic: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts Thread-Index: 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Archived-At: Cc: Google-Peter Thatcher , Peter Saint-Andre , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] Trickle ICE and ICE restarts X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 16:38:35 -0000 DQo+IE9uIEphbiA2LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMToyMSBBTSwg8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5nIDxkd2luZ0BjaXNj by5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIDA2LUphbi0yMDE2IDA2OjUxIGFtLCBKb25hdGhh biBMZW5ub3ggPGpvbmF0aGFuQHZpZHlvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiANCj4+PiANCj4+PiBPbiBK YW4gNSwgMjAxNiwgYXQgNjoyOSBQTSwg8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5nIDxkd2luZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+IHdy b3RlOg0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IE9uIDA1LUphbi0yMDE2IDAxOjM4IHBtLCBKb25hdGhhbiBM ZW5ub3ggPGpvbmF0aGFuQHZpZHlvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4+Pj4gT24gSmFuIDUs IDIwMTYsIGF0IDQ6MDUgUE0sIFBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlIDxzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0+ IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+PiBBIGZldyBtb250aHMgYWdvLCBFbWlsIEl2b3YgYW5kIEkg 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[63.245.221.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm65705103pfa.15.2016.01.06.10.57.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Jan 2016 10:57:31 -0800 (PST) To: ice@ietf.org From: Nicholas Desaulniers Organization: Mozilla Corporation Message-ID: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 10:57:31 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 12:42:45 -0800 Subject: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: nick@mozilla.com List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:11:30 -0000 Hi there, I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection library](https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I will soon pull the ICE parts out into their own lib. This is also my first time posting to any IETF related discussion, so let me know if this is the wrong forum. I was curious, in [section 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the underlying transport socket when ICE processing has finished. For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see the valid list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in the controlling role, I see Firefox start responding with application level data once the first candidate I send the nomination for (aggressive nomination), though it will sometimes switch if I send a binding request for a higher priority candidate. It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the sockets for candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the rest of the connection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has stabilized? What's a safe duration to use? Or is there some other event that occurs during ICE processing that I should wait for, rather than a specific duration? -- Thanks, ~Nick Desaulniers Open Source Zealot Mozilla Corporation From nobody Fri Jan 8 07:09:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2181F1A8A54 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:09:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TLIjhc360w89 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346761A8A52 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79a76d000000a93-89-568fd11a454d Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.87]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FA.C7.02707.A11DF865; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:09:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.147]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:09:13 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: "nick@mozilla.com" Thread-Topic: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets Thread-Index: AQHRSMLOeNYUUjUSh0mzFDHeJ0Vtu57xqseA Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:09:13 +0000 Message-ID: <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> References: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <7D18D0ABA7D1324EA0AAEACD2D2B2700@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uK7Uxf4wgzmrpCy+Xai1OLooyoHJ Y8mSn0wefQe6WAOYorhsUlJzMstSi/TtErgyrrzczVzwQLTi6e83rA2MewS7GDk5JARMJLav OsIGYYtJXLi3Hsjm4hASOMwo8eTUV0YIZzGjxPJdS9lBqtgE7CUmr/nICGKLCGhKfJ52Csjm 4GAWUJR4uVcNJCwskCDx6cUTZpCwiECixNpZNhDVRhLndk1jAbFZBFQkfn7pAtvLCzRxz9dD YHEhAS2J75sfgE3nFNCW+DxlL5jNCHTb91NrmEBsZgFxiVtP5jNB3CwgsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/ rBC2ksSi25+h6vUkbkydwgZhW0u8fNLKCmFrSyxb+JoZ4gZBiZMzn7BMYBSfhWTFLCTts5C0 z0LSPgtJ+wJG1lWMosWpxUm56UZGeqlFmcnFxfl5enmpJZsYgZF2cMtvgx2ML587HmIU4GBU 4uH98LYvTIg1say4MvcQowQHs5IIr8bZ/jAh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjNIcLErivEkyjWFC AumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGRvWgyQ4thxh/ON+yWnvHZc1XtYPbFrwUFOxwzF2l3dP7+f/c c5GXhQr8tm95NXFJuPRkRpM99860cbxW+PVCiFFVd3Xodov43ud7ONivS315LR9XsvDfCgGV f9KbZnwyOra3zt/6eX2uruHnB/u63h6RXl5dNV1k44P5ItXpEvs5/GZIbT/jt1KJpTgj0VCL uag4EQCKshlpsAIAAA== Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 15:09:18 -0000 Hi Nick, > On 06 Jan 2016, at 20:57, Nicholas Desaulniers wrote: >=20 > Hi there, > I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection library](https://git= hub.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I will soon pull the ICE= parts out into their own lib. This is also my first time posting to any I= ETF related discussion, so let me know if this is the wrong forum. For things that are unclear in the ICE specifications, this is indeed the r= ight forum. Welcome! > I was curious, in [section 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-= ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the = underlying transport socket when ICE processing has finished. That section is a bit terse now when the SIP text has been moved away. The = original text in RFC5245 gives guideline of 3 seconds after ICE processing = moving to Completed state to accommodate for aggressive nomination: https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-8.3.1 That sounds like a good guideline to me. I'd propose that we return the second paragraph from 5245 without the first= (SIP forking specific) sentence to ICEbis 7.3.1. That is, add the followin= g: Once ICE processing has reached the Completed state for all peers for media streams using those candidates, the agent SHOULD wait an additional three seconds, and then it MAY cease responding to checks or generating triggered checks on that candidate. It MAY free the candidate at that time. Freeing of server reflexive candidates is never explicit; it happens by lack of a keepalive. The three-second delay handles cases when aggressive nomination is used, and the selected pairs can quickly change after ICE has completed. > For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see the val= id list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in the control= ling role, I see Firefox start responding with application level data once = the first candidate I send the nomination for (aggressive nomination), thou= gh it will sometimes switch if I send a binding request for a higher priori= ty candidate. Switching to validated higher priority candidate is standard aggressive nom= ination behavior. > It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the sockets for = candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the rest of the con= nection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has stabilized? What's a = safe duration to use? Or is there some other event that occurs during ICE = processing that I should wait for, rather than a specific duration? Completed state + 3 seconds is what seems the right thing to do. Any other = opinions? Cheers, Ari= From nobody Fri Jan 8 08:51:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A5A1B2A44 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:51:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VnMveNBnz6Z1 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D5F11B2A48 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:51:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3088; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1452271901; x=1453481501; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wsztQDS//QaW9Ea++n0X5/2sYZQRuueqyYE07Ii7KJs=; b=DSLeSYtsSVL7VVqTV4zqe1rRJ9alNt1laVKI3SnUppzO5YEj1jCdcVqu i0tTDGGRdgxgVDuq/5P1ugw9XI1L7+7617+tKRSRew59TLhMacLx9Zl9J 1JtF16za//Ts7WbZmNZgQ8QJwVN8RnZxl3wEXvdgjAJkGo2xVwPgn++yv w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AMAgBO6I9W/4wNJK1egzpSbYhZs0kBD?= =?us-ascii?q?YFkIoVtAoEeOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqENQEBBCNWEAsYAgImAgJXBhOILw6xLZA4AQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFASBAYVVgg+CcIQ+F4MeLoEbBY4wiF2FQ4gVi?= =?us-ascii?q?SaFVY5OIAEBQoIRHB2BYR00AQGEFiWBJAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,539,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="225644862" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jan 2016 16:51:40 +0000 Received: from [10.24.15.141] ([10.24.15.141]) (authenticated bits=0) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u08Gpdfi005991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:51:40 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:51:38 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <06E89573-DA5D-4D5A-8B28-581DFBC1F6CB@cisco.com> References: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: "nick@mozilla.com" , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:51:43 -0000 On 08-Jan-2016 07:09 am, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = wrote: >=20 > Hi Nick, >=20 >> On 06 Jan 2016, at 20:57, Nicholas Desaulniers = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi there, >> I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection = library](https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I = will soon pull the ICE parts out into their own lib. This is also my = first time posting to any IETF related discussion, so let me know if = this is the wrong forum. >=20 > For things that are unclear in the ICE specifications, this is indeed = the right forum. Welcome! >=20 >> I was curious, in [section = 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.= 3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the underlying transport = socket when ICE processing has finished. >=20 > That section is a bit terse now when the SIP text has been moved away. = The original text in RFC5245 gives guideline of 3 seconds after ICE = processing moving to Completed state to accommodate for aggressive = nomination: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-8.3.1 >=20 > That sounds like a good guideline to me. >=20 > I'd propose that we return the second paragraph from 5245 without the = first (SIP forking specific) sentence to ICEbis 7.3.1. That is, add the = following: >=20 > Once ICE processing > has reached the Completed state for all peers for media streams = using > those candidates, the agent SHOULD wait an additional three seconds, > and then it MAY cease responding to checks or generating triggered > checks on that candidate. It MAY free the candidate at that time. > Freeing of server reflexive candidates is never explicit; it happens > by lack of a keepalive. The three-second delay handles cases when > aggressive nomination is used, and the selected pairs can quickly > change after ICE has completed. >=20 >=20 >> For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see the = valid list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in the = controlling role, I see Firefox start responding with application level = data once the first candidate I send the nomination for (aggressive = nomination), though it will sometimes switch if I send a binding request = for a higher priority candidate. >=20 > Switching to validated higher priority candidate is standard = aggressive nomination behavior. >=20 >> It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the sockets = for candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the rest of = the connection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has stabilized? = What's a safe duration to use? Or is there some other event that occurs = during ICE processing that I should wait for, rather than a specific = duration? >=20 > Completed state + 3 seconds is what seems the right thing to do. Any = other opinions? Aren't all candidates supposed to be using the same socket (same source = UDP port number), to best aid firewall and NAT traversal? -d From nobody Fri Jan 8 08:58:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFBD1B2A58 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mrsffa-y1B70 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x229.google.com (mail-pa0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC3DF1B2A4C for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-x229.google.com with SMTP id ho8so24171395pac.2 for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:58:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Iw+LjCcCL8Rv1XxjnnoeOUPWdDcmAFtVxKTDSGV1WNw=; b=bEBjJ0Kjx2ggrFnUHPQcTor099FI+AzHfq0E2ahdmI+sqCEd/hUHadUIyMocvkWwWW AmZK+Yyvpyy3OoFkLIln8UdZGk9UdcsaYOGaH9UQ0A5reZWdJszWb+8VmiI1gxvUD2gR FD4i7rAM9EBCECK4dRGaQrysnz3VwPt4J+jYUqKLYktg0ZmA4Dg3ejHbw6YXdjyvw4G0 3Iz6uOrxh0RnFPMVOa2FUKm+Sj3NJgbl2uJtvxNKjM/Y/jK9y3pIH0WwyuTdVKhOaJCh aUbdQZ4L34yYysru4q27w1YDq6kKQCdyCrmsptJQt7GDdWI2YRVaX/BxailKy7P9eR2Y H2Uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from :organization:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Iw+LjCcCL8Rv1XxjnnoeOUPWdDcmAFtVxKTDSGV1WNw=; b=mzrObL5dMScSKJUiXjm4uzit6V4tONcfnwnTrHI2nMoG6RRCKbGwnT++kXbzcsDuLg GD4NR6zans6qkyohCicISRh0HMJIJ+Qgy4wtcGeYw3jcimH0vuSzUL7UOkDiofoOFHNX /FVjKlWxH4ei1WIhJxveKszSL5R+MSkBL+/YUHm7RY/7jnJuK/W6P3vjp0uqh/qByKBp cW0ExG9RwLr82nUjumTg87QWD8+wqSdkJN57QzsMlP/Eu2TST7A/0JoqjZeG5gs/bYec rhTb2WkzAKDgVHQD7L4tSUTes7Oj2fdmtYL9nInchwNV46UbCz+KLO4PFkHbL/DzvC70 JfYA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQncJ2I8ya7QoVtCeTqVDraJGxQ73s+HGI/TxVXPnQKes6Fy0C9B7YZhfzjE3PCkqQz799IZjrJhnXntaFKxI10R5r35aQ== X-Received: by 10.66.101.36 with SMTP id fd4mr162662209pab.76.1452272309379; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.8] (108-202-177-59.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.202.177.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 191sm5962422pfa.23.2016.01.08.08.58.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:58:27 -0800 (PST) References: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> <06E89573-DA5D-4D5A-8B28-581DFBC1F6CB@cisco.com> To: =?UTF-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= , =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= From: Nicholas Desaulniers Organization: Mozilla Corporation Message-ID: <568FEAB3.1090107@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:58:27 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06E89573-DA5D-4D5A-8B28-581DFBC1F6CB@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: nick@mozilla.com List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:58:33 -0000 I have a socket allocated per ip address per network interface. Thanks, ~Nick Desaulniers Open Source Zealot Mozilla Corporation On 1/8/16 8:51 AM, 🔓Dan Wing wrote: > On 08-Jan-2016 07:09 am, Ari Keränen wrote: >> Hi Nick, >> >>> On 06 Jan 2016, at 20:57, Nicholas Desaulniers wrote: >>> >>> Hi there, >>> I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection library](https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I will soon pull the ICE parts out into their own lib. This is also my first time posting to any IETF related discussion, so let me know if this is the wrong forum. >> For things that are unclear in the ICE specifications, this is indeed the right forum. Welcome! >> >>> I was curious, in [section 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the underlying transport socket when ICE processing has finished. >> That section is a bit terse now when the SIP text has been moved away. The original text in RFC5245 gives guideline of 3 seconds after ICE processing moving to Completed state to accommodate for aggressive nomination: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-8.3.1 >> >> That sounds like a good guideline to me. >> >> I'd propose that we return the second paragraph from 5245 without the first (SIP forking specific) sentence to ICEbis 7.3.1. That is, add the following: >> >> Once ICE processing >> has reached the Completed state for all peers for media streams using >> those candidates, the agent SHOULD wait an additional three seconds, >> and then it MAY cease responding to checks or generating triggered >> checks on that candidate. It MAY free the candidate at that time. >> Freeing of server reflexive candidates is never explicit; it happens >> by lack of a keepalive. The three-second delay handles cases when >> aggressive nomination is used, and the selected pairs can quickly >> change after ICE has completed. >> >> >>> For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see the valid list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in the controlling role, I see Firefox start responding with application level data once the first candidate I send the nomination for (aggressive nomination), though it will sometimes switch if I send a binding request for a higher priority candidate. >> Switching to validated higher priority candidate is standard aggressive nomination behavior. >> >>> It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the sockets for candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the rest of the connection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has stabilized? What's a safe duration to use? Or is there some other event that occurs during ICE processing that I should wait for, rather than a specific duration? >> Completed state + 3 seconds is what seems the right thing to do. Any other opinions? > Aren't all candidates supposed to be using the same socket (same source UDP port number), to best aid firewall and NAT traversal? > > -d > > From nobody Fri Jan 8 08:59:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C3F1B2A5A for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:59:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-_ZWCIexPVq for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x232.google.com (mail-pf0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 920441B2A58 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 65so12073246pff.2 for ; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HmbgNpTsjGsya9CgqjtL6Cv7HO3HLFgAKbgR3rLG8Dw=; b=fhrQGvDtVpyI8aRNdxqg0EE1jISuSCcOU9d4qc/aO/2YKWUK2RTbwBAIDivo00WukX qBS+vydvxyxsFvfW5yNw/iWnFDEW2G8yKgihRjwNS8V0i4+oDpWlYA5nuY9DDPzaFL79 W5mZqHeJoOnidojAjM9I210Z7bKfx4n9oTR0FMwOiyO+tfpOevzHj+28d1fhpwAwiprv 9xKnK0j+Stc7FmchPfyjrjtZZ8E1OaWC+CirDdgcdh4qC+xOiJj5ZlnnKsGV4fLaQYnd VHycdy9yAZYs5quB71iunKcMa/+EzQcr98ahn7Ifspm08SCgwoJyD4qyfGWpW1kiV4il 6aaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:reply-to:subject:references:to:cc:from :organization:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HmbgNpTsjGsya9CgqjtL6Cv7HO3HLFgAKbgR3rLG8Dw=; b=X8MATe6gCwxzQ5mKCQ66T3b9aDla+2sRRKjV7eXR8BcIZiT1ZYKYSwEYcnS8AdkLon M69Ya1SLj+i1m4RXFa4Y2Fg/COGgdpONG6XzSrqpCt81mSIWmhDy2Zmhlpe4yCZefCQb eRoIHcGVcchqriAAyR6j/ui2XtuLZzZw8NhlonxBH1e2iqStuZjw97wRfup/1gXDP7RY 2ZTz/gXRRrhxnhYBRsY2qmd/5RiNLI/MeotAF2s+bY5bf86PL+roXj1p8d0lG4FwhFgF vkJycl0kyUCI1BBXPz32T5MRp22iXd4NG2RgAiw3kyIOEx4S2pIOuaYOyfFUefv3j80u 1iiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnPouV5u7lImCIYDnhOF6nhEc8mE1u1G4XQsN4xMYbWirJEsk8B80KtykBASUCES9DW1RrDmyQMwx+LLm56usS1clK/Kg== X-Received: by 10.98.86.214 with SMTP id h83mr5778434pfj.112.1452272362089; Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.8] (108-202-177-59.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.202.177.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id sv8sm168440290pab.13.2016.01.08.08.59.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:59:21 -0800 (PST) References: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ari_Ker=c3=a4nen?= From: Nicholas Desaulniers Organization: Mozilla Corporation Message-ID: <568FEAE8.4020103@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:59:20 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: nick@mozilla.com List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:59:24 -0000 Ari, Thanks for that concise response! I think that addition would be a nice re-addition and would clarify my question. Thanks, ~Nick Desaulniers Open Source Zealot Mozilla Corporation On 1/8/16 7:09 AM, Ari Keränen wrote: > Hi Nick, > >> On 06 Jan 2016, at 20:57, Nicholas Desaulniers wrote: >> >> Hi there, >> I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection library](https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I will soon pull the ICE parts out into their own lib. This is also my first time posting to any IETF related discussion, so let me know if this is the wrong forum. > For things that are unclear in the ICE specifications, this is indeed the right forum. Welcome! > >> I was curious, in [section 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the underlying transport socket when ICE processing has finished. > That section is a bit terse now when the SIP text has been moved away. The original text in RFC5245 gives guideline of 3 seconds after ICE processing moving to Completed state to accommodate for aggressive nomination: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-8.3.1 > > That sounds like a good guideline to me. > > I'd propose that we return the second paragraph from 5245 without the first (SIP forking specific) sentence to ICEbis 7.3.1. That is, add the following: > > Once ICE processing > has reached the Completed state for all peers for media streams using > those candidates, the agent SHOULD wait an additional three seconds, > and then it MAY cease responding to checks or generating triggered > checks on that candidate. It MAY free the candidate at that time. > Freeing of server reflexive candidates is never explicit; it happens > by lack of a keepalive. The three-second delay handles cases when > aggressive nomination is used, and the selected pairs can quickly > change after ICE has completed. > > >> For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see the valid list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in the controlling role, I see Firefox start responding with application level data once the first candidate I send the nomination for (aggressive nomination), though it will sometimes switch if I send a binding request for a higher priority candidate. > Switching to validated higher priority candidate is standard aggressive nomination behavior. > >> It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the sockets for candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the rest of the connection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has stabilized? What's a safe duration to use? Or is there some other event that occurs during ICE processing that I should wait for, rather than a specific duration? > Completed state + 3 seconds is what seems the right thing to do. Any other opinions? > > > Cheers, > Ari From nobody Fri Jan 8 09:05:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CF21B2A6F for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:05:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t0b952V8_770 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8122E1B2A6E for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:05:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3492; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1452272700; x=1453482300; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=32+toc1KORR79hkbyk9tuZZgxplC2qXOnYfCWWra7ak=; b=VNUfyuLn2HmAG7kMAENGOwXNJYKOGJaPlpPyCFw3cQ+agKVTnPhSNf+J jv+CDtvflhH9g51SUgEuLM7qVQSzqcXsz4L1Vh+qahUx5ZW62QsB1qaym cmylrP/nYbCwUuVf2e6mCnNIL19HtzEtWYwHYbzrn/vEI4c+HJnL4PU0m 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AMAgCc649W/4UNJK1egzpSbYhZs0gBD?= =?us-ascii?q?YFkIoVtAoEeOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqENAEBAQMBI1YQCQIYAgImAgJXGYgnCA6TcZ0?= =?us-ascii?q?1kDMBAQEBAQEBAwEBAQEBAQEBARYEgQGFVYIPCIFkgQSEPheDHi6BGwWNRGyIX?= =?us-ascii?q?YVDiBWJJoVVjk4gAQFCghEcHYFhHTQBAYQWJYEkAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,539,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="225648834" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jan 2016 17:04:59 +0000 Received: from [10.24.15.141] ([10.24.15.141]) (authenticated bits=0) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u08H4wvd003080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:04:59 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <568FEAB3.1090107@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 09:04:58 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <792F6951-8094-434F-A1AB-368C00FCAEDF@cisco.com> References: <568D639B.9030000@mozilla.com> <2DEEE8F9-377D-4051-9D70-6BE202F9FCBB@ericsson.com> <06E89573-DA5D-4D5A-8B28-581DFBC1F6CB@cisco.com> <568FEAB3.1090107@mozilla.com> To: nick@mozilla.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= , "ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] clarification on when it's acceptable to close underlying transport sockets X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:05:06 -0000 On 08-Jan-2016 08:58 am, Nicholas Desaulniers wrote: >=20 > I have a socket allocated per ip address per network interface. Gotcha. Can't do better than that! -d >=20 > Thanks, > ~Nick Desaulniers > Open Source Zealot > Mozilla Corporation >=20 > On 1/8/16 8:51 AM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing wrote: >> On 08-Jan-2016 07:09 am, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = wrote: >>> Hi Nick, >>>=20 >>>> On 06 Jan 2016, at 20:57, Nicholas Desaulniers = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi there, >>>> I'm implementing ICE as part of my RTCPeerConnection = library](https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/node-rtc-peer-connection). I = will soon pull the ICE parts out into their own lib. This is also my = first time posting to any IETF related discussion, so let me know if = this is the wrong forum. >>> For things that are unclear in the ICE specifications, this is = indeed the right forum. Welcome! >>>=20 >>>> I was curious, in [section = 7.3.1](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-rfc5245bis-00#section-7.= 3.1), it's not clear when it's ok to close the underlying transport = socket when ICE processing has finished. >>> That section is a bit terse now when the SIP text has been moved = away. The original text in RFC5245 gives guideline of 3 seconds after = ICE processing moving to Completed state to accommodate for aggressive = nomination: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5245#section-8.3.1 >>>=20 >>> That sounds like a good guideline to me. >>>=20 >>> I'd propose that we return the second paragraph from 5245 without = the first (SIP forking specific) sentence to ICEbis 7.3.1. That is, add = the following: >>>=20 >>> Once ICE processing >>> has reached the Completed state for all peers for media streams = using >>> those candidates, the agent SHOULD wait an additional three = seconds, >>> and then it MAY cease responding to checks or generating triggered >>> checks on that candidate. It MAY free the candidate at that time. >>> Freeing of server reflexive candidates is never explicit; it = happens >>> by lack of a keepalive. The three-second delay handles cases when >>> aggressive nomination is used, and the selected pairs can quickly >>> change after ICE has completed. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> For example, in my implementation (Full, Full-Trickle), I can see = the valid list being built up. When initiating an offer to Firefox in = the controlling role, I see Firefox start responding with application = level data once the first candidate I send the nomination for = (aggressive nomination), though it will sometimes switch if I send a = binding request for a higher priority candidate. >>> Switching to validated higher priority candidate is standard = aggressive nomination behavior. >>>=20 >>>> It's not clear to me when it's safe to close the rest of the = sockets for candidates I'm not using. Should I leave them open for the = rest of the connection (surely not)? Should I timeout once ICE has = stabilized? What's a safe duration to use? Or is there some other = event that occurs during ICE processing that I should wait for, rather = than a specific duration? >>> Completed state + 3 seconds is what seems the right thing to do. Any = other opinions? >> Aren't all candidates supposed to be using the same socket (same = source UDP port number), to best aid firewall and NAT traversal? >>=20 >> -d >>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Jan 12 05:02:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748611AD0C9 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:02:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RCHEWcKQzu64 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76A4A1AD0C7 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:02:18 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f797e6d000007600-49-5694f9581d3f Received: from ESESSHC020.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.78]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 8E.8E.30208.859F4965; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:02:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.76]) by ESESSHC020.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:02:16 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AdFNOVt7kQ2pmkCTSmeGFH6bEUVINQ== Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:02:15 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACBESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7n27EzylhBn8fKlh8u1DrwOixZMlP pgDGKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6Mx1NPshdM1K54tDGxgfGZahcjB4eEgInEtNfyXYycQKaYxIV7 69m6GLk4hAQOM0ps/dkJ5SxmlPh58CMjSAObgIVE9z9tkAYRAUWJmS3PmEFsYQEdidudE1kg 4oYSbe9fM0LYehJLdrexg9gsAqoSjY+PsILYvAK+Eh1r7jGB2IxAi7+fWgNmMwuIS9x6Mp8J 4iABiSV7zjND2KISLx//Y4WwFSWuTl8OVZ8vcebxXxaImYISJ2c+YZnAKDQLyahZSMpmISmD iOtILNj9iQ3C1pZYtvA1M4x95sBjJmTxBYzsqxhFi1OLk3LTjYz1Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjEC o+Hglt+qOxgvv3E8xCjAwajEw/vBeEqYEGtiWXFl7iFGCQ5mJRFeuy1AId6UxMqq1KL8+KLS nNTiQ4zSHCxK4rxJMo1hQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsb4F5F3lxSnavT/YFrN6+vrm9Ct fmZn14WZtnUfegMX2y0/lM0YvDDjzK1G+a1/z91jTVwY2ZZ9y7lQdWZn66agn9X7ZksVnXWf pXR1gW2qybuMlM8CO59eDpojkBn3ctIZv31R83kn6P/hmHSR/75Ef7B8oK7EfsW17DuYNVef 6OF3mdp4PUSJpTgj0VCLuag4EQBt7WDNggIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:02:21 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACBESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, RFC 5245 says the following: "If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST enc= ode the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribu= te as defined in RFC 3605 [RFC3605]." There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required in ca= se of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate information, the= RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0. Example: a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to "encode", and= it also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive su= pport of RTP/RTCP multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). Regards, Christer --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACBESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

RFC 5245 says the following:

 

      =             &nb= sp;            = “If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode

      =             &nb= sp;           the RT= CP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605=

      =             &nb= sp;            [RFC3605].”

 

There is an ongoing discussion = whether the rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle ICE, when an offe= r is sent without candidate information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP= IP address set to 0.0.0.0.

 

Example:

 

     &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           a=3Drtcp: 9 = IN IP4 0.0.0.0

 

In my opinion this is not neede= d, as there is no candidate to “encode”, and it also conflicts = with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP m= ultiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).

 

Regards,

 

Christer

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACBESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Tue Jan 12 12:48:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817DF1A88C7 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4yHmFmA5o-3T for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com (mail-ig0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6406E1A88C4 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-x236.google.com with SMTP id z14so135534083igp.1 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/RZRu/f0kNvQ3KUpnCgd81o05nNoZ3VFKDwaFIh8gJg=; b=GmY+yXJMapLNrLdwzAFRGRdeaHrxH/jQI4ndvcSwt5yG/3z5qjJtq+UQI9qXjSK2yS gaF0DYSpgjp3viwgDxI7FxoxW/pxfzlS2cjuRcix90UZT3sGwArdkxmDP2HKFeSeElQe KelN/1PBSF2VW3D/M5FUT/YCi+aTpdQBHgI34m2ZNJ7PMd0DzUciE1ZFrulmLgUUq4u4 HDewC1lCWi6qfBQqTaEzLN1toeG8uSaOzweNLVMzEOB/bGlRF27hiPncnBgPKnpgB/hV hODM0NEJz4Z0OzH0uGk1TSBpUTaBcI8NScCKSc2wvHSR7wDDw0xo4dmJGzc+MMqFiion oXoA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/RZRu/f0kNvQ3KUpnCgd81o05nNoZ3VFKDwaFIh8gJg=; b=XKOZaiVGUXjRsv6g+Zzo2eRf/jH/L0TC+O/p4QjpoJwJqVkYtgxiTVk5yF/fI/4x0S sS2C7BEpP92kG8b9LHiOAj9VRZ9nJKgbRDRf1WIdP7a6xNjNnhgcmceGukz7/xbPK+16 CxhroCoiLJSrrRJ6MOaYk09hQQ7xAPPC9KtuuaSNW5xASz+NJu0BE4XyJkpM4eLjnTrc lLN3kyXMJb9Fd4jqayfp7FVMGLccuFyj2GpwLLwcdlQ8F+YHCTNctYmrvrHAUwmlthz0 Ze4y8/bxR7hyOegWySSWyK7D+k2UwCu5YCOFt3tK+ukuKG9bIdImmAkiWVQH6f64KEe/ 0Zmw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlzKthB57awhr2C9+U52sK+4ZkjJpjHMR3VbpORFCtOcbHDSsddtcnQOvvqpZUyc+A2hsmt3LPg6AKXBvIbtMjTBkA/HQ== X-Received: by 10.50.33.20 with SMTP id n20mr19581483igi.17.1452631682739; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com (mail-ig0-f172.google.com. [209.85.213.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h96sm41628758iod.28.2016.01.12.12.48.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f172.google.com with SMTP id z14so135533318igp.1; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.88.7 with SMTP id bc7mr19859507igb.24.1452631680694; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.105.15 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:48:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:48:00 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Roman Shpount To: "ice@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg , marc@petit-huguenin.org, =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , snandaku@cisco.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011841685143ef0529292bbe Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:48:05 -0000 --089e011841685143ef0529292bbe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H All, Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC 5245bis and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp RFC 5245 and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the following: The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m lines, respectively. *If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605 [RFC3605 ].* If RTCP is not in use, the agent MUST signal that using b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556 ]. There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0. Example: a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 According to Christer this is not needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested mechanis= m for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). Furthermore, according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605: The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number following the RTP port described in the media line. RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP rtcp attribute MUST be present even when RTCP default candidate is not present or when RTCP candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently the the most common scenario since sequential port is typically allocated for RTCP by TURN. I suggest changing the language in section 4.2 of draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to: The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m lines, respectively. *If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP * * candidate is present and not equal to the same address and * * the next higher port number of the RTP candidate, the agent MUST encode the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605 [RFC3605 ].* If RTCP is not in use, the agent MUST signal that using b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556 ]. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > RFC 5245 says the following: > > > > =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing RTCP, i= t MUST > encode > > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp > attribute as defined in RFC 3605 > > [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D > > > > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required in > case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate information, > the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0. > > > > Example: > > > > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > > > > In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cen= code=E2=80=9D, > and it also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusi= ve > support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice > > --089e011841685143ef0529292bbe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
H All,

Cross-posting to MMUSIC, s= ince this affects both RFC 5245bis and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp
RFC 5245 and=C2=A0draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sd= p currently=C2=A0say the following:

   The default candidates are added t=
o the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For streams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is not in use, the agent=
 MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].

There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is =
required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate in=
formation, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0.=

=C2=A0
Example:
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a=
=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0
=C2=A0
According to Christer =
this is not needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, a=
nd it also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive =
support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).
=

Furthermore, according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605:

   The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for =
media
   stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number
   following the RTP port described in the media line.

RFC 5245= overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP rtcp attribute = MUST be present even when RTCP default candidate is not present or when RTC= P candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently the the most common sce= nario since sequential port is typically allocated for RTCP by TURN.
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
I suggest ch= anging the language in section 4.2 of=C2=A0draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to= :

The default candidates are added to the SDP a= s the default destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP = 
   candidate is present and not equ=
al to the same address and 
   t=
he next higher port number of the RTP candidate, the agent MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is not in use, the agent=
 MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].

Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer Ho= lmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>

Hi,

=C2=A0

RFC 5245 says the following:=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0the RT= CP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[RFC3605].=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

There is an ongoing discussion = whether the rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle ICE, when an offe= r is sent without candidate information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP= IP address set to 0.0.0.0.

=C2=A0

Example:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a=3Drtcp: 9= IN IP4 0.0.0.0

=C2=A0

In my opinion this is not neede= d, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also confli= cts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RT= CP multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).=

=C2=A0

Regards,

<= font color=3D"#888888">

=C2=A0

Christer


_______________________________________________
Ice mailing list
Ice@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice


--089e011841685143ef0529292bbe-- From nobody Wed Jan 13 07:52:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A191A8AAF; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:52:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A2wOBFHB3kwR; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D44A21A8AA0; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:52:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=19238; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1452700363; x=1453909963; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=efYD3Q22CGSo3nrpfe+hx6F+5AQzc2fqwWd0llimRZs=; b=DbmXgQ0B2KEF/+cwnMPVhcHz3IbQKzNQkxVqhrFpnDLD67wogqeQsBIH WxYAKgnV0gbaSqylvw+NL7iG7l79EdWmX0FGQH1OBvwlzAWCoubb7DXqC FS7XMtflUe6Kdsdrgfjzas3zApl+7QT3upkWd0jBzxBhVwz9yPKWgWZxp 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.22,289,1449532800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="66772137" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Jan 2016 15:52:43 +0000 Received: from [10.131.44.84] ([10.131.44.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u0DFqec9015642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:52:42 GMT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_759A37A7-D786-4242-A840-466764798C3A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:52:38 -0500 Message-Id: <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> To: Roman Shpount X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg , snandaku@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:52:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_759A37A7-D786-4242-A840-466764798C3A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount wrote:=20 > H All, >=20 > Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC 5245bis and = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp >=20 > RFC 5245 and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the = following: >=20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. >=20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. > =20 > Example: > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > =20 > According to Christer this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). >=20 > Furthermore, according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605: >=20 > The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media > stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number > following the RTP port described in the media line. >=20 > RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP = rtcp attribute MUST be present even when RTCP default candidate is not = present or when RTCP candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently = the the most common scenario since sequential port is typically = allocated for RTCP by TURN. >=20 > I suggest changing the language in section 4.2 of = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to: >=20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP=20 > candidate is present and not equal to the same address and=20 > the next higher port number of the RTP candidate,=20 One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require a=3Drtcp, always) is to = destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it simply breaks too many = times with NAT. So, I would go for your proposed text if you removed = "and not equal to the same address and next-higher port number of the = RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using RTCP on any different port, the = port number has to be explicitly signaled with a=3Drtcp. =20 -d > the agent MUST encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. >=20 > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount >=20 > On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > =20 >=20 > RFC 5245 says the following: >=20 > =20 >=20 > =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing = RTCP, it MUST encode >=20 > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp = attribute as defined in RFC 3605 >=20 > [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D >=20 > =20 >=20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Example: >=20 > =20 >=20 > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 >=20 > =20 >=20 > In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic --Apple-Mail=_759A37A7-D786-4242-A840-466764798C3A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> = wrote:
H = All,

Cross-posting to MMUSIC, = since this affects both RFC 5245bis and = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp

RFC 5245 = and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the following:

   The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For streams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP, =
it MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is =
not in use, the agent MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].
There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is =
required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate =
information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to =
0.0.0.0.
 
Example:
                 =
             a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 =
0.0.0.0
 
According to Christer this is =
not needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it =
also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive =
support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing =
(draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).

Furthermore, according to =
section 2.1 of RFC 3605:

   The =
RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media
   stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number
   following the RTP port described in the media =
line.

RFC 5245 overwrites the = guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP rtcp attribute MUST be = present even when RTCP default candidate is not present or when RTCP = candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently the the most common = scenario since sequential port is typically allocated for RTCP by = TURN.

I suggest changing the language in section 4.2 = of draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to:

The default candidates are added to = the SDP as the default destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP = and if RTCP 
=
   candidate is present and not equal to the same address and =

   the =
next higher port number of the RTP candidate, =

One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require = a=3Drtcp, always) is to destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it = simply breaks too many times with NAT.  So, I would go for your = proposed text if you removed "and not equal to the same address and = next-higher port number of the RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using = RTCP on any different port, the port number has to be explicitly = signaled with a=3Drtcp.  

-d



the agent MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is =
not in use, the agent MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].

Regards,
_____________
Roman = Shpount

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 = AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

 

RFC 5245 says the following:

 

   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode

   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined = in RFC 3605

   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D

 

There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is = required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0.

 

Example:

 

          &nb= sp;            = ;      a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0

 

In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).

 

Regards,

 

Christer


_______________________________________________
Ice mailing list
Ice@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice


_______________________________________________
mmusic = mailing list
mmusic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic


= --Apple-Mail=_759A37A7-D786-4242-A840-466764798C3A-- From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:25:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AA11B2ED7; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:22:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160113162249.6032.67211.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:22:49 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:25:23 -0800 Cc: ben@nostrum.com, ari.keranen@ericsson.com, ice@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] ice - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:22:49 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Ari Keranen, a Chair of the ice working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Interactive Connectivity Establishment Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Ari Keranen Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mmusic tram tsvwg tsvarea tls t2trg avtcore avtext rtcweb core payload Second Priority: netvc rmcat httpbis perc Third Priority: xrblock clue lwig 6lo ace Special Requests: Not on Monday. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:32:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689A51B2C85; Wed, 13 Jan 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"ice@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:32:11 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgRGFuLA0KDQpUaGUgY2FzZSB0aGF0IHJhaXNlZCB0aGUgaXNzdWUgaXMgd2hlbiB0cmlja2xl IElDRSBpcyB1c2VkIOKAkyBhbmQgbm8gcG9ydHMgYXJlIHNpZ25hbGxlZCB0byBiZWdpbiB3aXRo LCBhbmQgdGhlIGM9IGxpbmUgY29udGFpbnMgcG9ydCA5IGFuZCBhIDAuMC4wLjAgYWRkcmVzcy4g SW4gbXkgb3BpbmlvbiB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBuZWVkIGZvciB0aGUgUlRDUCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgaW4g dGhhdCBjYXNlLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQpGcm9tOiDwn5STRGFuIFdpbmcg W21haWx0bzpkd2luZ0BjaXNjby5jb21dDQpTZW50OiAxMyBKYW51YXJ5IDIwMTYgMTc6NTMNClRv 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From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:39:32 -0500 Message-Id: <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Roman Shpount , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:39:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A48FC36A-885E-470C-83B5-384DFD38B63B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 13-Jan-2016 11:32 am, Christer Holmberg = wrote:=20 > Hi Dan, > =20 > The case that raised the issue is when trickle ICE is used =E2=80=93 = and no ports are signalled to begin with, and the c=3D line contains = port 9 and a 0.0.0.0 address. In my opinion there is no need for the = RTCP attribute in that case. Then you'll need a MUST to indicate "MUST signal using Trickle", right? -d > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer > =C2=A0 <> > From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com = ]=20 > Sent: 13 January 2016 17:53 > To: Roman Shpount > > Cc: ice@ietf.org ; mmusic@ietf.org = ; Christer Holmberg = >; Marc Petit-Huguenin = >; Ari Ker=C3=A4n= en >; = snandaku@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE > =20 >=20 > On 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount > wrote: > H All, > =20 > Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC 5245bis and = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp > =20 > RFC 5245 and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the = following: > =20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. > =20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. > =20 > Example: > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > =20 > According to Christer this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). > =20 > Furthermore, according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605: > =20 > The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media > stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number > following the RTP port described in the media line. > =20 > RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP = rtcp attribute MUST be present even when RTCP default candidate is not = present or when RTCP candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently = the the most common scenario since sequential port is typically = allocated for RTCP by TURN. > =20 > I suggest changing the language in section 4.2 of = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to: > =20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP=20 > candidate is present and not equal to the same address and=20 > the next higher port number of the RTP candidate,=20 > =20 > One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require a=3Drtcp, always) is to = destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it simply breaks too many = times with NAT. So, I would go for your proposed text if you removed = "and not equal to the same address and next-higher port number of the = RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using RTCP on any different port, the = port number has to be explicitly signaled with a=3Drtcp. =20 > =20 > -d > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > the agent MUST encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. > =20 > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > =20 > On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > Hi, > =20 > RFC 5245 says the following: > =20 > =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing = RTCP, it MUST encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp = attribute as defined in RFC 3605 > [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D > =20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. > =20 > Example: > =20 > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > =20 > In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic = --Apple-Mail=_A48FC36A-885E-470C-83B5-384DFD38B63B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 13-Jan-2016 11:32 am, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Dan,
 
The case that raised = the issue is when trickle ICE is used =E2=80=93 and no ports are = signalled to begin with, and the c=3D line contains port 9 and a 0.0.0.0 = address. In my opinion there is no need for the RTCP attribute in that = case.

Then you'll need a MUST to indicate "MUST signal = using Trickle", right?

-d


 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com] 
Sent: 13 = January 2016 17:53
To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: ice@ietf.org; mmusic@ietf.org; Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; Marc Petit-Huguenin = <marc@petit-huguenin.org>; = Ari Ker=C3=A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com>; snandaku@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp = attribute with trickle ICE
 

On = 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> = wrote:
H All,
 
Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC = 5245bis and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp
 
RFC 5245 = and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the following:
 
   The default candidates =
are added to the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For =
streams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port =
of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute =
as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP =
is not in use, the agent MUST signal that using
   =
b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC =
3556 [RFC3556].
 
There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp =
attribute is required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent =
without candidate information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP =
address set to 0.0.0.0.
 
Example:
       =
                    =
   a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0
 
According to Christer this is not =
needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it =
also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive =
support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing =
(draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).
 
Furthermore, =
according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605:
 
   The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP =
port used for media
   stream, when that port is not the next higher =
(odd) port number
   following the RTP port described in the media =
line.
 
RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and = states that SDP rtcp attribute MUST be present even when RTCP default = candidate is not present or when RTCP candidate is using port rtp+1, = which is currently the the most common scenario since sequential port is = typically allocated for RTCP by TURN.
 
I suggest changing the language in = section 4.2 of draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to:
 
   The =
default candidates are added to the SDP as the default
   =
destination for media.  For streams based on RTP, this is done =
by
   =
placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and =
m
   =
lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP =
and if RTCP 
   candidate is =
present and not equal to the same address and 
   the next higher port number =
of the RTP candidate,
 
One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require = a=3Drtcp, always) is to destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it = simply breaks too many times with NAT.  So, I would go for your = proposed text if you removed "and not equal to the same address and = next-higher port number of the RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using = RTCP on any different port, the port number has to be explicitly = signaled with a=3Drtcp.  
 
-d
 
 


the agent MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate =
using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC =
3605
   [RFC3605].  =
If RTCP is not in use, the agent MUST signal that using
   =
b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC =
3556 [RFC3556].
 
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer = Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,
 
RFC 5245 = says the following:
 
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined = in RFC 3605
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D=
 
There is an ongoing discussion whether the = rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent = without candidate information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP = address set to 0.0.0.0.
 
Example:
 
          &nb= sp;            = ;      a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0
 
In my opinion this is not needed, as there is = no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the = suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP = multiplexing (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).
 
Regards,
 
Christer


_______________________________________________
Ice mailing list
Ice@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice

 
_______________________________________________
mmusic mailing list
mmusic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic


= --Apple-Mail=_A48FC36A-885E-470C-83B5-384DFD38B63B-- From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:42:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3971B2AE7; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:42:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PBKF5nVOcH9A; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS 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<49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3FESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7sW5M3bQwg62mFhevPWSy+Hah1mLt 8ZuMFlOXP2axmHFhKrPF4gP3WR3YPKb83sjqsWTJTyaP46evs3rcmlIQwBLFZZOSmpNZllqk b5fAlbH1zDT2gimLmSr2H9jB2MB4ZDZTFyMnh4SAicSp01eYIWwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcZpSY NG06I4SzmFHi6refrF2MHBxsAhYS3f+0QUwRASOJRX/jQEqYBZqYJB7fmcEOMkhYwF7i0ak+ FhBbRMBB4nz/TGYI20/i3I8vTCC9LAKqEku/6oCEeQV8JY7vmwW1ah+TxKqWj2wgNZwCthKb btiB1DAC3fb91Bqwm5kFxCVuPZkPdb+AxJI956HuF5V4+fgfK4StJNG45AkrRH2+xLv+tWwQ uwQlTs58wjKBUXQWklGzkJTNQlI2C+gKZgFNifW79CFKFCWmdD9kh7A1JFrnzGVHFl/AyL6K UbQ4tbg4N93IWC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzBKD275rbuDcfVrx0OMAhyMSjy8G/ZODRNiTSwr rsw9xCjBwawkwitUOy1MiDclsbIqtSg/vqg0J7X4EKM0B4uSOG+yTGOYkEB6YklqdmpqQWoR TJaJg1OqgXH56QedjdG3N+0LnOmw0Mpq2cOkkw6rjyp1rVu9t3oPJ1vOu2j/UlU1k7WHY7xl Pc94Ly3vdpDr/dFbXbldrubw9m4RmwvJ066nfThytnyalOLW198Dw+OSn+sfPX2A+2myalJa 6Cnfde1bdljwXb0t3NnyPW2FbGbX39gLef0H5m01tuUv3qfEUpyRaKjFXFScCAD7Ht7ozgIA AA== Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Roman Shpount , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:42:10 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3FESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBJIHVuZGVyc3Rvb2QgeW91IGxhc3QgaW5wdXQgOikNCg0KRnJvbTog8J+U 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160113164859.23130.22583.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:48:59 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: ben@nostrum.com, ari.keranen@ericsson.com, ice@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Ice] ice - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:48:59 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Ari Keranen, a Chair of the ice working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Interactive Connectivity Establishment Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Ari Keranen Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mmusic tram tsvwg tsvarea tls t2trg avtcore avtext rtcweb core payload dispatch Second Priority: netvc rmcat httpbis perc Third Priority: xrblock clue lwig 6lo ace Special Requests: Not on Monday. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:51:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13D91B2F32; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:50:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_17=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BqN5IsiSt13O; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39F641B2B04; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=44884; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1452703849; x=1453913449; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=gwyUyIgghiC1mFyefx2LnaUjOnLHmd2ezfbR3h3Ls+4=; b=EkBiwxc9vKHsLKxpourZcs1XD7CvvGbv2Ti+UMlyk2RRGEc1wRC1Seh5 JVrzPr5r4xV74TH3noY/sQlKyOfwmfsvM1nkzww5b0q8kp53Jt3u49XJh 52Ts5cWZeCqI+EuG92zwF0UbSgtijbT6OTrv+YsEy+nfgwh8CG1ZkejJo 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.22,290,1449532800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="61133406" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 13 Jan 2016 16:50:48 +0000 Received: from [10.131.44.84] ([10.131.44.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u0DGoW76029323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:50:46 GMT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_667C609A-E41D-4218-BF20-6F6015464AA9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:50:30 -0500 Message-Id: <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Authenticated-User: dwing Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Roman Shpount , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:50:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_667C609A-E41D-4218-BF20-6F6015464AA9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 13-Jan-2016 11:42 am, Christer Holmberg = wrote:=20 > I am not sure I understood you last input :) With existing proposed new text, lack of a=3Drtcp could be interpreted = to mean: * RTCP on port+1 * no RTCP at all need to differentiate between those. I like a=3Drtcp to differentiate = between those, I think you're saying existence of a=3Dtrickle = differentiates (or whatever the trickle SDP, I forget what it's supposed = to be right now, sorry). -d > =C2=A0 <> > From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com = ]=20 > Sent: 13 January 2016 18:40 > To: Christer Holmberg > > Cc: Roman Shpount >; = ice@ietf.org ; mmusic@ietf.org = ; Marc Petit-Huguenin >; Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = >; = snandaku@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE > =20 >=20 > On 13-Jan-2016 11:32 am, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > Hi Dan, > =20 > The case that raised the issue is when trickle ICE is used =E2=80=93 = and no ports are signalled to begin with, and the c=3D line contains = port 9 and a 0.0.0.0 address. In my opinion there is no need for the = RTCP attribute in that case. > =20 > Then you'll need a MUST to indicate "MUST signal using Trickle", = right? > =20 > -d > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer > =20 > From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com = ]=20 > Sent: 13 January 2016 17:53 > To: Roman Shpount > > Cc: ice@ietf.org ; mmusic@ietf.org = ; Christer Holmberg = >; Marc Petit-Huguenin = >; Ari Ker=C3=A4n= en >; = snandaku@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE > =20 >=20 > On 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount > wrote: > H All, > =20 > Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC 5245bis and = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp > =20 > RFC 5245 and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the = following: > =20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. > =20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. > =20 > Example: > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > =20 > According to Christer this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). > =20 > Furthermore, according to section 2.1 of RFC 3605: > =20 > The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media > stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number > following the RTP port described in the media line. > =20 > RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from RFC 3605 and states that SDP = rtcp attribute MUST be present even when RTCP default candidate is not = present or when RTCP candidate is using port rtp+1, which is currently = the the most common scenario since sequential port is typically = allocated for RTCP by TURN. > =20 > I suggest changing the language in section 4.2 of = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to: > =20 > The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default > destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by > placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and = m > lines, respectively. If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP=20 > candidate is present and not equal to the same address and=20 > the next higher port number of the RTP candidate,=20 > =20 > One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require a=3Drtcp, always) is to = destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it simply breaks too many = times with NAT. So, I would go for your proposed text if you removed = "and not equal to the same address and next-higher port number of the = RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using RTCP on any different port, the = port number has to be explicitly signaled with a=3Drtcp. =20 > =20 > -d > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > the agent MUST encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC = 3605 > [RFC3605 ]. If RTCP is not in = use, the agent MUST signal that using > b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 = [RFC3556 = ]. > =20 > Regards, > _____________ > Roman Shpount > =20 > On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > Hi, > =20 > RFC 5245 says the following: > =20 > =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing = RTCP, it MUST encode > the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp = attribute as defined in RFC 3605 > [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D > =20 > There is an ongoing discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required = in case of trickle ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate = information, the RTP port set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to = 0.0.0.0. > =20 > Example: > =20 > a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0 > =20 > In my opinion this is not needed, as there is no candidate to = =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it also conflicts with the suggested = mechanism for indicating exclusive support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive). > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Christer >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ice mailing list > Ice@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ice = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic = --Apple-Mail=_667C609A-E41D-4218-BF20-6F6015464AA9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 13-Jan-2016 11:42 am, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
I am not sure I understood you last input = :)

With existing proposed new text, lack of a=3Drtcp = could be interpreted to mean:

  = * RTCP on port+1
  * no RTCP at all

need to differentiate between those.  I like = a=3Drtcp to differentiate between those, I think you're saying existence = of a=3Dtrickle differentiates (or whatever the trickle SDP, I forget = what it's supposed to be right now, sorry).

-d


 
From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com] 
Sent: 13 = January 2016 18:40
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: Roman= Shpount <roman@telurix.com>; ice@ietf.org; mmusic@ietf.org; Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org>; = Ari Ker=C3=A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com>; snandaku@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp = attribute with trickle ICE
 

On = 13-Jan-2016 11:32 am, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi = Dan,
 
The case that raised the issue is when = trickle ICE is used =E2=80=93 and no ports are signalled to begin with, = and the c=3D line contains port 9 and a 0.0.0.0 address. In my opinion = there is no need for the RTCP attribute in that case.
 
Then you'll need a MUST to indicate "MUST signal = using Trickle", right?
 
-d
 


 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com] 
Sent: 13 = January 2016 17:53
To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: ice@ietf.org; mmusic@ietf.org; Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; Marc = Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org>; Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = <ari.keranen@ericsson.com>; snandaku@cisco.com
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp = attribute with trickle ICE
 

On = 12-Jan-2016 03:48 pm, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:
H = All,
 
Cross-posting to MMUSIC, since this affects both RFC = 5245bis and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp
 
RFC 5245 = and draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp currently say the following:
 
   The default candidates =
are added to the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For =
streams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port =
of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute =
as defined in RFC =
3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is not in =
use, the agent MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined =
in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].
 
There is an ongoing =
discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle =
ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate information, the RTP port =
set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0.
 
Example:
       =
                    =
   a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0
 
According to Christer this is not =
needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it =
also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive =
support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing =
(draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).
 
Furthermore, according to section 2.1 =
of RFC 3605:
 
   =
The RTCP attribute is used to document the RTCP port used for media
   =
stream, when that port is not the next higher (odd) port number
   =
following the RTP port described in the media line.
 
RFC 5245 overwrites the guideline from = RFC 3605 and states that SDP rtcp attribute MUST be present even when = RTCP default candidate is not present or when RTCP candidate is using = port rtp+1, which is currently the the most common scenario since = sequential port is typically allocated for RTCP by TURN.
 
I suggest changing the language in = section 4.2 of draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp to:
 
   The default candidates =
are added to the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For =
streams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port =
of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP 
   candidate is present and not =
equal to the same address and 
   the next higher port number of the RTP =
candidate,
 
One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to = require a=3Drtcp, always) is to destroy the "port + 1" assumption of = RTCP; it simply breaks too many times with NAT.  So, I would go for = your proposed text if you removed "and not equal to the same address and = next-higher port number of the RTP candidate"; that is, if you're using = RTCP on any different port, the port number has to be explicitly = signaled with a=3Drtcp.  
 
-d
 
 



the agent MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate =
using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is not in =
use, the agent MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined =
in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].
 
Regards,
_____________
Roman Shpount
 
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Christer = Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,
 
RFC 5245 says the = following:
 
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   =E2=80=9CIf the agent is utilizing RTCP, it MUST = encode
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;  the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined = in RFC 3605
   =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;   [RFC3605].=E2=80=9D
 
There is an ongoing = discussion whether the rtcp attribute is required in case of trickle = ICE, when an offer is sent without candidate information, the RTP port = set to 9, and the RTP IP address set to 0.0.0.0.
 
Example:
 
          &nb= sp;            = ;      a=3Drtcp: 9 IN IP4 0.0.0.0
 
In my opinion this is not = needed, as there is no candidate to =E2=80=9Cencode=E2=80=9D, and it = also conflicts with the suggested mechanism for indicating exclusive = support of RTP/RTCP multiplexing = (draft-holmberg-mmusic-mux-exclusive).
 
Regards,
 
Christer


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= --Apple-Mail=_667C609A-E41D-4218-BF20-6F6015464AA9-- From nobody Wed Jan 13 09:01:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883B91A6FA3 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k8udQdzI5MTe for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E3B01B2AF6 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id q21so424646156iod.0 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telurix-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NShNmIqh0pHiNmcJL6uTvz4JwFP3CPQQxtI6gZgauHU=; b=PFHGXfeRP9TojIKW04dB0wl44eGhf557LYAtSUQlTOL1zqEho1VY69Eai53TFHQwhE 6BElRP8CRrrrvN0j/3XrOSkNLAlhovtROdFs1J5RG0LWBVEzfYmMih+1aML8Tbg4HNjz cMepVL9uS97s3FN+uPifoeDnIk+o5SBGaYdnIVArULD+7fK6Idex86xAKptHwUrCAm6k Kh1coCrpMVYHp+dH6NOm5aeoZHYAVifrCQA/uZS25TMjZTNCV8Vo0wpypDyKwgyILPvv G7gY5eRw7Fb9QLz8aJEqknfXeRviD03V4WiNF675t17m9PIDG+pEpssnyTbBBgNe6aHY zZ9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NShNmIqh0pHiNmcJL6uTvz4JwFP3CPQQxtI6gZgauHU=; b=ULm8nPOsY+N2RGSO2w8uSuCR3HvLkG/7IC6+zn+5RXHlslqh+0zLDPg3APplBcLaSd h5zw+6qxjKIeNJOXkaj9hrXw+UG6mni197JfEQh2JWpRv0250hBP/tjRAarhklzP7zmm 6iukUavXyTSYjJM/8MTtHsPOmcizndvvzvFplkvhgZeG62sGIZrgzMrnemZfsiwtB2/6 owFkwic1rCkJzadsJd7/wFuKp57ZBILKZdtOyvdKl+UrH4bVeCQ8xm7A5Ep70Hmxv4iF 5UTM80ht9qnk6omyEHrrFnGKx12C+M+CPACPgRqCOFSaoNTeZjDsFL1SQg9Mwde8u78v /D8w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmUZSuUnXEWJa08SVjm6WoiJ1kXeHlbUvXj2gA6VDGlNpIMMlyVudKymVPeQBpILvYyoZP20ZBim6WCxBJi1JiAvwKZFw== X-Received: by 10.107.46.11 with SMTP id i11mr128923717ioo.67.1452704454694; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com (mail-io0-f174.google.com. [209.85.223.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 124sm1191034ioz.10.2016.01.13.09.00.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 1so377684958ion.1; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.41.142 with SMTP id p136mr112061980iop.70.1452704452435; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.105.77 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:00:52 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Roman Shpount To: =?UTF-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1141f3e2d9e6d705293a1c9c Archived-At: Cc: =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , Christer Holmberg , snandaku@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:00:57 -0000 --001a1141f3e2d9e6d705293a1c9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:52 AM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing wr= ote: > > One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require a=3Drtcp, always) is to > destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP; it simply breaks too many time= s > with NAT. So, I would go for your proposed text if you removed "and not > equal to the same address and next-higher port number of the RTP > candidate"; that is, if you're using RTCP on any different port, the port > number has to be explicitly signaled with a=3Drtcp. > > I wanted to clarify one thing: if TURN is used in conjunction with ICE then relay candidate is used as default. This, I believe is recommended and the most common ICE use case scenario. TURN server allocates RTCP on the RTP port + 1. How would this break in case of NAT? On my service, for instance, since TURN is used all SDP comes with a=3Drtcp pointing to rtp port+1. The only time a=3Drtcp attribute is useful is when reflexive candidates are use= d as default which is just the fraction of all the use cases. Furthermore, presence or absence of a=3Drtcp attribute cannot be used to determine if RTCP is present. b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 are supposed to be used= for this. _____________ Roman Shpount --001a1141f3e2d9e6d705293a1c9c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:52 AM, =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com= > wrote:

One reason for the text in RFC5245 (to require = a=3Drtcp, always) is to destroy the "port + 1" assumption of RTCP= ; it simply breaks too many times with NAT.=C2=A0 So, I would go for your p= roposed text if you removed "and not equal to the same address and nex= t-higher port number of the RTP candidate"; that is, if you're usi= ng RTCP on any different port, the port number has to be explicitly signale= d with a=3Drtcp. =C2=A0

<= br>
I wanted to clarify one thing: if TURN is used in conjunction= with ICE then relay candidate is used as default.=C2=A0 This, I believe is= recommended and the most common ICE use case scenario. TURN server allocat= es RTCP on the RTP port + 1. How would this break in case of NAT? On my ser= vice, for instance, since TURN is used all SDP comes with a=3Drtcp pointing= to rtp port+1. The only time a=3Drtcp attribute is useful is when reflexiv= e candidates are used as default which is just the fraction of all the use = cases.

Furthermore, presence or absence of a=3Drtc= p attribute cannot be used to determine if RTCP is present.=C2=A0b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 are su= pposed to be used for this.
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0
 --001a1141f3e2d9e6d705293a1c9c-- From nobody Wed Jan 13 09:01:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B111A1B1E; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:01:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_17=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PsUunZPR5IE3; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 998A71B2B08; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:01:15 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f797e6d000007600-8d-569682d97380 Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.21]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C8.BA.30208.9D286965; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:01:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.76]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:01:13 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: =?utf-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AdFNOVt7kQ2pmkCTSmeGFH6bEUVINQAOMjAAACf50gAAA2qfQP//8cUA///uguCAABSOAP//7SWg Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:01:12 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7qO7NpmlhBm0PzSwuXnvIZPHtQq3F 2uM3GS2mLn/MYjHjwlRmi8UH7rM6sHlM+b2R1WPJkp9MHsdPX2f1uDWlIIAlissmJTUnsyy1 SN8ugSuj+WYje8G6ecwVH/t2sTUwnpjM3MXIySEhYCLRf/MNG4QtJnHh3nogm4tDSOAwo8SR jrvMEM5iRolTb68wdjFycLAJWEh0/9MGMUUEjCQW/Y0DKWEWaGKSeHxnBjvIIGEBe4lHp/pY QGwRAQeJ8/0zmSHsKImOrW/AbBYBVYmTy96B2bwCvhKdt5pYIXZtZZaYPGUNWDOngK3EgSd3 wa5jBLru+6k1TCA2s4C4xK0n85kgrhaQWLLnPNQ3ohIvH/9jhbCVJBqXPGGFqM+XWNL7B2qZ oMTJmU9YJjCKzkIyahaSsllIymYB/cksoCmxfpc+RImixJTuh+wQtoZE65y57MjiCxjZVzGK FqcWJ+WmGxnrpRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIExurBLb9VdzBefuN4iFGAg1GJh3fD3qlhQqyJZcWV uYcYJTiYlUR4hWqnhQnxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLnTZJpDBMSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJ MnFwSjUwBvhb81lkLcpMFrjgbXhp2tbW649SzZ3V6uu4jm/qvne5Oa5g9tNJsdsXnbhpsfWj k25Iwd+j+1smrtt62nZTX+lyY4Ur5vqxLkGTDe4o/9KNnDJBRFo9e+vVPla1n4s2TygPl3+v 7Pb5wS2pV40HTlnpKsqIrDquKxf0Sun3jI8anhHLp+1fpsRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAPX4MO/RAgAA Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Roman Shpount , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:01:21 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3ESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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[193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEE331B2F17; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 06:08:24 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79456d000001332-34-569e43568edc Received: from ESESSHC014.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.60]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 38.C7.04914.6534E965; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 15:08:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB205.ericsson.se ([169.254.5.247]) by ESESSHC014.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.60]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 15:08:22 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= To: Christer Holmberg , "mmusic@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AdFNOVt7kQ2pmkCTSmeGFH6bEUVINQAOMjAAACf50gAAA2qfQP//8cUA///uguCAABSOAP//7SWggAlTi4A= Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:08:21 +0000 Message-ID: <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <61EFC10A5CBE3049AB140A2E06F3092E@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7jW6Y87wwg4Z7JhYXrz1ksvh2odZi 7fGbjBZTlz9msZhxYSqzxeID91kd2Dym/N7I6rFkyU8mj+Onr7N63JpSEMASxWWTkpqTWZZa 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Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:08:26 -0000 SGksDQoNClRoaXMgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIGdvb2Qgd2F5IGZvcndhcmQuDQoNCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0K QXJpIChhcyBpbmRpdmlkdWFsKQ0KDQo+IE9uIDEzIEphbiAyMDE2LCBhdCAxOTowMSwgQ2hyaXN0 ZXIgSG9sbWJlcmcgPGNocmlzdGVyLmhvbG1iZXJnQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0K PiBIaSwNCj4gIA0KPiBNeSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIG9mIGxhY2sgb2YgYT1ydGNwIGlzOg0KPiAgDQo+ IC0gICAgICAgICAgSWYgYW4gUlRQIG5vbi05IHBvcnQgaXMgcHJvdmlkZWQsIHRoZSBSVENQIHBv cnQgaXMgUlRQKzENCj4gLSAgICAgICAgICBJZiBhbiBSVFAgOSAoZGlzYWJsZWQpIHBvcnQgaXMg cHJvdmlkZWQsIHRoZSBSVENQIHBvcnQgaXMgaW1wbGljaXRseSBhbHNvIGRpc2FibGVkDQo+ICAN Cj4gVGhlcmUgYXJlIG90aGVyIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgdG8gaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhhdCBSVENQIHdvbuKA mXQgYmUgdXNlZCB0byBiZWdpbiB3aXRoLg0KPiAgDQo+IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ICANCj4gQ2hyaXN0 ZXINCj4gIA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Jan 19 08:02:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: 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[209.85.223.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h19sm7441859igq.6.2016.01.19.08.02.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 1so538341496ion.1; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:02:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.41.142 with SMTP id p136mr28771879iop.70.1453219352270; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.105.77 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:02:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:02:32 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Roman Shpount To: =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1141f3e245e39b0529b1ff82 Archived-At: Cc: "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , =?UTF-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= , Christer Holmberg , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:02:39 -0000 --001a1141f3e245e39b0529b1ff82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Do you think the text that I have suggested for section 4.2 of draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp is enough: The default candidates are added to the SDP as the default destination for media. For streams based on RTP, this is done by placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m lines, respectively. *If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP * * candidate is present and not equal to the same address and * * the next higher port number of the RTP candidate, the agent MUST encode the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605 [RFC3605 ].* If RTCP is not in use, the agent MUST signal that using b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556 ]. Or do you think it need to have the language regarding RTP port 9 added as well? Based on the language that I am proposing if RTCP ICE candidate is not present, SDP rtcp attribute should not be present as well. This, of cause would be further updated by the Christer's draft for RTCP MUX required, which will state that SDP rtcp attribute can also be present when RTCP ICE candidate is not present but RTCP MUX is required. Regards, _____________ Roman Shpount On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen wrote: > Hi, > > This seems like a good way forward. > > > Cheers, > Ari (as individual) > > > On 13 Jan 2016, at 19:01, Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > My suggestion of lack of a=3Drtcp is: > > > > - If an RTP non-9 port is provided, the RTCP port is RTP+1 > > - If an RTP 9 (disabled) port is provided, the RTCP port is > implicitly also disabled > > > > There are other mechanisms to indicate that RTCP won=E2=80=99t be used = to begin > with. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > --001a1141f3e245e39b0529b1ff82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Do you think the text that I have s= uggested for section 4.2 =C2=A0of=C2=A0draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp is eno= ugh:

The default cand= idates are added to the SDP as the default
   destination for media.  For st=
reams based on RTP, this is done by
   placing the IP address and port of the RTP candidate into the c and m
   lines, respectively.  If the agent is utilizing RTCP and if RTCP =

   candidate is present and not equ=
al to the same address and 
   t=
he next higher port number of the RTP candidate, the agent MUST encode
   the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute as defined in RFC 3605
   [RFC3605].  If RTCP is not in use, the agent=
 MUST signal that using
   b=3DRS:0 and b=3DRR:0 as defined in RFC 3556 [RFC3556].

Or do you think it need to have = the language regarding RTP port 9 added as well? Based on the language that= I am proposing if RTCP ICE candidate is not present, SDP rtcp attribute sh= ould not be present as well. This, of cause would be further updated by the= Christer's draft for RTCP MUX required, which will state that SDP rtcp= attribute can also be present when RTCP ICE candidate is not present but R= TCP MUX is required.

Regards,

_____________
Roman Shpount

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Ari Ker=C3= =A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

This seems like a good way forward.


Cheers,
Ari (as individual)

> On 13 Jan 2016, at 19:01, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: >
> Hi,
>
> My suggestion of lack o= f a=3Drtcp is:
>
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If an RTP non-9 port is provided, = the RTCP port is RTP+1
> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If an RTP 9 (disabled) port is pro= vided, the RTCP port is implicitly also disabled
>
> There are other mechanisms to indicate that RTCP won=E2=80=99t be used= to begin with.
>
> Regards,
>
> Christer
>


--001a1141f3e245e39b0529b1ff82-- From nobody Wed Jan 20 00:13:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38CC1B3290; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 00:13:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k1Ev1zoji8gu; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 00:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FA581B31EF; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 00:13:26 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f797e6d000007600-05-569f41a52e91 Received: from ESESSHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.42]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D7.C6.30208.5A14F965; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:13:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.166]) by ESESSHC008.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:13:24 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount , =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AQHRUsLbYoIO9Cdwkkm8RdxkvF2BKJ8C71IAgAEWIQA= Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 08:13:24 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4C4FD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> 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[209.85.213.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r80sm12933563ioi.26.2016.01.20.11.56.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Jan 2016 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f181.google.com with SMTP id h5so19121241igh.0; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.155.65 with SMTP id vu1mr1806862igb.2.1453319777956; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 11:56:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.105.77 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 11:56:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4C4FD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4C4FD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:56:17 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: From: Roman Shpount To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113464101c41ac0529c96161 Archived-At: Cc: =?UTF-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , =?UTF-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:56:26 -0000 --001a113464101c41ac0529c96161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Your suggested text looks ok, but it does not solve my issue :) I think it > should be clear that, if there is no RTCP candidate, the spec does not > define usage of the SDP rtcp attribute. > > > Well, in my proposed text "*if RTCP candidate is present* and not equal to the same address and the next higher port number of the RTP candidate, the agent MUST encode the RTCP candidate using the a=rtcp attribute". Do you also want text saying that a=rtcp attribute MUST not be present of no RTCP candidates are present and rtcp-mux is not used? _____________ Roman Shpount --001a113464101c41ac0529c96161 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Christer Holmberg &= lt;chri= ster.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Your suggested text looks ok, but it does no= t solve my issue :) I think it should be clear that, if there is no RTCP ca= ndidate, the spec does not define usage of the SDP rtcp attribute.



Well= , in my proposed text "if RTCP candidate is present and not equ= al to the same address and the next higher port number of the RTP candidate= , the agent MUST encode the RTCP candidate using the a=3Drtcp attribute&quo= t;. Do you also want text saying that a=3Drtcp attribute MUST not be presen= t of no RTCP candidates are present and rtcp-mux is not used?
_____________
Roman Shpount
=C2=A0=
--001a113464101c41ac0529c96161-- From nobody Wed Jan 20 12:09:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746301A8920; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:09:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id us36P2EWYcZo; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD5651A8792; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:09:39 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79a76d000000a93-75-569fe981b892 Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.63]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 72.B2.02707.189EF965; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:09:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.166]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:09:37 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [Ice] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AQHRUsLbYoIO9Cdwkkm8RdxkvF2BKJ8C71IAgAEWIQCAAL2DgIAAEsgQ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:09:36 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4FC90@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4C4FD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrMIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7vW7jy/lhBl+/WFlcvPaQyeLbhVqL tcdvMlpMXf6YxWLGhanMFosP3Gd1YPOY8nsjq8eSJT+ZPI6fvs7qcWtKQQBLFJdNSmpOZllq kb5dAlfGnnPHmAvOcFZ0TXrF0sC4hrOLkZNDQsBEYuHyi4wQtpjEhXvr2boYuTiEBA4zSux4 NZMdJCEksIRR4tsy/S5GDg42AQuJ7n/aIGERAVWJv98nM4HUMwv0M0lMW3eNBSQhLGAv8ehU HwtEkYPE+f6ZzBC2m8TOTe/BbBag5mn7NrGC2LwCvhL3bk5nhljcyCZx+NRVNpAEp0CgREPz abDrGIGu+35qDROIzSwgLnHryXwmiKsFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpJYsf0SI8jRzAKaEut3 6UO0KkpM6X7IDrFXUOLkzCcsExjFZiGZOguhYxaSjllIOhYwsqxiFC1OLU7KTTcy0kstykwu Ls7P08tLLdnECIy6g1t+G+xgfPnc8RCjAAejEg+vwc35YUKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEePUeAYV4 UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNSiw8xSnOwKInzJsk0hgkJpCeWpGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYE6xLNObJSIeu Xj3JfWq2ys9Phl4BwiHLz7rKP9f7HuujkelYJTur1lL1w/ejeqJzMz3Dhbrn712R6HfVpf72 I93sLXe1k982Wm5UUjk1uXD+rmURsZJ8ExZvcdeoEP39dktq0jl9m5iupyyTNcuLxSc/j8n5 P+myJpOQ00WjU+8/TLmyY5uQEktxRqKhFnNRcSIAnFrHM7YCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:09:41 -0000 SGkgUm9tYW4sDQoNCj4+IFlvdXIgc3VnZ2VzdGVkIHRleHQgbG9va3Mgb2ssIGJ1dCBpdCBkb2Vz IG5vdCBzb2x2ZSBteSBpc3N1ZSA6KSBJIHRoaW5rIGl0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBjbGVhciANCj4+IHRo YXQsIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIFJUQ1AgY2FuZGlkYXRlLCB0aGUgc3BlYyBkb2VzIG5vdCBkZWZp bmUgdXNhZ2Ugb2YgdGhlIFNEUCBydGNwIGF0dHJpYnV0ZS4NCj4NCj4gV2VsbCwgaW4gbXkgcHJv cG9zZWQgdGV4dCAiaWYgUlRDUCBjYW5kaWRhdGUgaXMgcHJlc2VudCBhbmQgbm90IGVxdWFsIHRv IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFkZHJlc3MgYW5kIA0KPiB0aGUgbmV4dCBoaWdoZXIgcG9ydCBudW1iZXIgb2Yg dGhlIFJUUCBjYW5kaWRhdGUsIHRoZSBhZ2VudCBNVVNUIGVuY29kZSB0aGUgUlRDUCBjYW5kaWRh dGUgdXNpbmcgdGhlIGE9cnRjcCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUiLiANCj4gRG8geW91IGFsc28gd2FudCB0ZXh0 IHNheWluZyB0aGF0IGE9cnRjcCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgTVVTVCBub3QgYmUgcHJlc2VudCBvZiBubyBS VENQIGNhbmRpZGF0ZXMgYXJlIHByZXNlbnQgYW5kIHJ0Y3AtbXV4IGlzIG5vdCB1c2VkPw0KDQpJ IGFtIG5vdCBzdXJlIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gc2F5IGFueXRoaW5nIGFib3V0IG11eC4NCg0KV2hlbiBy ZWFkaW5nIHlvdXIgdGV4dCBhZ2FpbiwgSSBub3cgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCBpdCBjb3ZlcnMgbXkgY2Fz ZS4gSSBqdXN0IGhvcGUgaXQgaXMgY2xlYXIgZW5vdWdoIDopDQoNClBlcmhhcHMsIGluIHRoZSB0 cmlja2xlIElDRSBkb2N1bWVudCwgd2UgY291bGQgaGF2ZSBhIG5vdGUgc29tZXdoZXJlIGNsYXJp ZnlpbmcgdGhhdCB0aGUgUlRDUCBjYW5kaWRhdGUgaXMgbm90IHVzZWQgd2hlbiB0aGUgUlRQIHBv cnQgaXMgOS4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KwqANCg== From nobody Wed Jan 20 12:12:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5F61A87F0; 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Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:12:03 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Roman Shpount Thread-Topic: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE Thread-Index: AQHRU76CIV1s/SPb/ESV0rR4QgcG/58E1fjw Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4FCFD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D14ACB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5415326E-30B8-4BE3-8B1B-CB03C569DFA3@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D169C5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <49B611F7-18D1-479F-AC80-B893A8ED4823@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16A3F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <62BD13CF-1D03-46B0-A7C9-F794792D58DA@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D16AE3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <6F63B37E-6746-48FD-AF45-CEE8D58FF994@ericsson.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4C4FD@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4FC90@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D4FC90@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrMIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iK7Iq/lhBhfyLS5ee8hk8e1CrcXa 4zcZLaYuf8xiMePCVGaLxQfuszqweUz5vZHVY8mSn0wex09fZ/W4NaUggCWKyyYlNSezLLVI 3y6BK+PF/0eMBccEK7pn3WdvYOwR7GLk5JAQMJGYdfYwO4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBw4wSR24d Y4VwljBKHH++FyjDwcEmYCHR/U8bpEFEIFriw4cFTCA1zAL9TBLdU98zgiSEBRwkpjyYzwhR 5Cgxe+dzNgjbSGLdi6OsIDaLgKrEofW3weK8Ar4SX3/tgFp2lE1iy553YEWcAn4SM/c2M4PY jEDnfT+1hgnEZhYQl7j1ZD4TxNkCEkv2nGeGsEUlXj7+xwphK0ms2H6JEeRoZgFNifW79CFa FSWmdD9kh9grKHFy5hOWCYxis5BMnYXQMQtJxywkHQsYWVYxihanFhfnphsZ6aUWZSYXF+fn 6eWllmxiBEbdwS2/rXYwHnzueIhRgINRiYfX4Ob8MCHWxLLiytxDjBIczEoivHqPgEK8KYmV ValF+fFFpTmpxYcYpTlYlMR5k2Qaw4QE0hNLUrNTUwtSi2CyTBycUg2Mgis4+E6LTQ58dOea 3LaEgvUChlYeDfLcPu22L/2cs27NPDwzvqP2ItOds9taN0xbft7t3M006TL5xrDvXocKBP/K ck68esj5yD+NKRHnL27PXZE4LSw3b84t50Xb9CPT0yX6HC68W5JRpyFgK23+OqvzG5Ne+L3U JQHTX57mEQ+ZtFfAcWK6EktxRqKhFnNRcSIAZlHvZbYCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= , "mmusic@ietf.org" , Marc Petit-Huguenin , "ice@ietf.org" , =?utf-8?B?8J+Uk0RhbiBXaW5n?= , "snandaku@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] SDP rtcp attribute with trickle ICE X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:12:08 -0000 QW5vdGhlciwgbW9yZSBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdGl2ZSBpc3N1ZSwgaXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBhbHNvIHdvdWxk IG5lZWQgdG8gZ2V0IHRoaXMgY2hhbmdlIGludG8gSlNFUCBhbmQgdHJpY2tsZSBJQ0UuIFVubGVz cyBJIHJlbWVtYmVyIHdyb25nLCBib3RoIG9mIHRob3NlIHNwZWNzIGN1cnJlbnRseSByZWZlcmVu Y2VzIFJGQyA1MjQ1Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogSWNlIFttYWlsdG86aWNlLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJl aGFsZiBPZiBDaHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZw0KU2VudDogMjAgSmFudWFyeSAyMDE2IDIyOjEwDQpU bzogUm9tYW4gU2hwb3VudCA8cm9tYW5AdGVsdXJpeC5jb20+DQpDYzogQXJpIEtlcsOkbmVuIDxh cmkua2VyYW5lbkBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+OyBtbXVzaWNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IE1hcmMgUGV0aXQtSHVn dWVuaW4gPG1hcmNAcGV0aXQtaHVndWVuaW4ub3JnPjsgaWNlQGlldGYub3JnOyDwn5STRGFuIFdp bmcgPGR3aW5nQGNpc2NvLmNvbT47IHNuYW5kYWt1QGNpc2NvLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtJ Y2VdIFtNTVVTSUNdIFNEUCBydGNwIGF0dHJpYnV0ZSB3aXRoIHRyaWNrbGUgSUNFDQoNCkhpIFJv bWFuLA0KDQo+PiBZb3VyIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCB0ZXh0IGxvb2tzIG9rLCBidXQgaXQgZG9lcyBub3Qg c29sdmUgbXkgaXNzdWUgOikgSSANCj4+IHRoaW5rIGl0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBjbGVhciB0aGF0LCBp ZiB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBSVENQIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSwgdGhlIHNwZWMgZG9lcyBub3QgZGVmaW5lIHVz YWdlIG9mIHRoZSBTRFAgcnRjcCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUuDQo+DQo+IFdlbGwsIGluIG15IHByb3Bvc2Vk IHRleHQgImlmIFJUQ1AgY2FuZGlkYXRlIGlzIHByZXNlbnQgYW5kIG5vdCBlcXVhbCANCj4gdG8g dGhlIHNhbWUgYWRkcmVzcyBhbmQgdGhlIG5leHQgaGlnaGVyIHBvcnQgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHRoZSBS VFAgY2FuZGlkYXRlLCB0aGUgYWdlbnQgTVVTVCBlbmNvZGUgdGhlIFJUQ1AgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHVz aW5nIHRoZSBhPXJ0Y3AgYXR0cmlidXRlIi4NCj4gRG8geW91IGFsc28gd2FudCB0ZXh0IHNheWlu ZyB0aGF0IGE9cnRjcCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgTVVTVCBub3QgYmUgcHJlc2VudCBvZiBubyBSVENQIGNh bmRpZGF0ZXMgYXJlIHByZXNlbnQgYW5kIHJ0Y3AtbXV4IGlzIG5vdCB1c2VkPw0KDQpJIGFtIG5v dCBzdXJlIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gc2F5IGFueXRoaW5nIGFib3V0IG11eC4NCg0KV2hlbiByZWFkaW5n IHlvdXIgdGV4dCBhZ2FpbiwgSSBub3cgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCBpdCBjb3ZlcnMgbXkgY2FzZS4gSSBq dXN0IGhvcGUgaXQgaXMgY2xlYXIgZW5vdWdoIDopDQoNClBlcmhhcHMsIGluIHRoZSB0cmlja2xl IElDRSBkb2N1bWVudCwgd2UgY291bGQgaGF2ZSBhIG5vdGUgc29tZXdoZXJlIGNsYXJpZnlpbmcg dGhhdCB0aGUgUlRDUCBjYW5kaWRhdGUgaXMgbm90IHVzZWQgd2hlbiB0aGUgUlRQIHBvcnQgaXMg OS4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KwqANCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpJY2UgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpJY2VAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWNlDQo= From nobody Mon Jan 25 00:20:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AE71B29CB for ; 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Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.38.168 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:20:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:20:35 -0800 Message-ID: From: Suhas Nandakumar To: ice@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134fdb0402438052a243e71 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] ice-bis-01 - clarification on rtcp candidates X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:20:41 -0000 --001a1134fdb0402438052a243e71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Latest ice-bis says "When candidates are obtained, unless the agent knows for sure that RTP/RTCP multiplexing will be used (i.e. the agent knows that the other agent also supports, and is willing to use, RTP/RTCP multiplexing), or unless the agent only supports RTP/RTCP multiplexing, the agent MUST obtain a separate candidate for RTCP. If an agent has obtained a candidate for RTCP, and ends up using RTP/RTCP multiplexing, the agent does not need to perform connectivity checks on the RTCP candidate I am unsure of mechanisms to verify "the agent knows that the other agent also supports, and is willing to use, RTP/RTCP multiplexing" I am unsure of mechanisms to verify How would an initiating agent know before hand that the responding agent is willing to use RTCP Mux for a given session. Thanks Suhas --001a1134fdb0402438052a243e71 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Latest ice-bis says

"When candidate= s are obtained, unless the agent knows for sure that=C2=A0RTP/RTCP mult= iplexing will be used (i.e. the agent knows that the=C2=A0other agent a= lso supports, and is willing to use, RTP/RTCP=C2=A0multiplexing), or un= less the agent only supports RTP/RTCP=C2=A0multiplexing, the agent MUST= obtain a separate candidate for RTCP.=C2=A0If an agent has obtained a = candidate for RTCP, and ends up using RTP/RTCP multiplexing, the agent = does not need to perform connectivity=C2=A0checks on the RTCP candidate=

I am unsure of mechanisms to verify=C2=A0<= br>

"the agent knows that the=C2=A0other age= nt also supports, and is willing to use, RTP/RTCP=C2=A0multiplexing&q= uot;


I am unsure of= mechanisms to verify=C2=A0
How would an initiating age= nt know before hand that the responding agent is willing to use RTCP Mux fo= r a given session.=C2=A0

Thanks
Suhas

--001a1134fdb0402438052a243e71-- From nobody Mon Jan 25 00:29:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2CD1B29DA for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:29:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FReyM8SS0UOR for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A52A21B29E0 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:29:12 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79df6d0000013b1-6e-56a5dcd60cff Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.84]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 92.DB.05041.6DCD5A65; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:29:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.166]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:28:14 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Suhas Nandakumar , "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ice] ice-bis-01 - clarification on rtcp candidates Thread-Index: AQHRV0lP6yNhwML+70Gc/IJiG3Z/gZ8L5bDA Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:28:13 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D596C2@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.18] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37D596C2ESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: 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