From nobody Wed May 2 15:58:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5049112D873; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:58:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Kqu5noQWxva; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 760CA1270AB; Wed, 2 May 2018 15:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.86] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w42Mw53p049726 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 2 May 2018 17:58:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.86] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 17:58:04 -0500 Cc: mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , The IESG , Christer Holmberg Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> To: "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 22:58:13 -0000 Adam, Ekr, and I spoke last week, and came to the conclusion that trying = to untangle all JSEP dependencies on SIP would require more effort than = is justified, and that the most expedient approach would to just fix the = currently orphaned JSEP references to point to = draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp. Adam has removed this point from his discuss, and has entered an RFC = editor note on JSEP to change the relevant references. (If anyone sees = JSEP references that will still be orphaned after applying that note, = please speak up asap.) I further note that Adam had other DISCUSS points and comments in his = review of draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip that I do not think have = been responded to. The discussion regarding Mirja=E2=80=99s discuss also = seems to have been left hanging. Authors, please follow up on those at = your earliest opportunity. Thanks! Ben. > On Apr 15, 2018, at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 >> Yes. The question is whether to just move the references in JSEP to = point to mmusic-trickle-sip, or do something different. >=20 > I think it would be good to have a list of all the reference instances = that need to be modified. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >> On Apr 13, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> In addition, as I mentioned earlier, there are cases where JSEP = references draft-ice-trickle for things and procedures that don=E2=80=99t = exist in draft-ice-trickle. Instead those references should be to = draft-mmusic-trickle. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 17.56, Ben Campbell wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>>>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Peter Saint-Andre=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 4/3/18 2:41 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Ben Campbell >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Peter Saint-Andre=20 >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On 4/3/18 12:27 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: >>>>>>>>> Just to complete, ice-bis doesn=C4=85t normatively reference=20= >>>>>>>>> ice-sip-SDP draft when it moved to using =C5=82usages =C5=82 = indirections=20 >>>>>>>>> for signaling protocols. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Trickle ice can use similar approach and refer to trickle-sip=20= >>>>>>>>> as usage for trickle. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> It already does. That's why we pulled all the SDP/SIP stuff out=20= >>>>>>>> of draft-ietf-ice-trickle. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I assume Suhas meant separating the SDP stuff from the SIP=20 >>>>>>> stuff. (I also assume he will correct me if I am wrong.) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> That's right Ben .. I was just thinking minimal localized = changes=20 >>>>>>> (thus small time to get new draft done) and then asking trickle,=20= >>>>>>> trickle-sip to refer to the new one. (work done to refer is much=20= >>>>>>> smaller for these drafts that are at the very end of approval=20 >>>>>>> journey) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I do agree with Adam, no matter what version of the proposal we=20= >>>>>>> pick, there is some work that needs to be done and we should do=20= >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> These documents are on the telechat tomorrow. Are we proposing to=20= >>>>>> delay consideration by the IESG while we get this mess sorted = out?=20 >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Peter, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I currently plan to leave it on. We may discuss a way forward on=20= >>>>> the telechat. Also, I=C4=85d like to get feedback on the rest of = the=20 >>>>> draft(s) from the other ADs sooner than later. >>>>=20 >>>> Did you discuss this at the telechat? >>>>=20 >>>> Any other discussions on how to move forward with this? >>>=20 >>> Yes, Adam and I have been discussing this with the RTCWEB chairs. = We=E2=80=99ve since discovered that this is not the only JSEP normative = reference chain back to SIP. The RTCWEB chairs are currently discussing = whether they can live with that. They may decide to just reference = things as they stand. If their answer involves a request to restructure = anything, I will pull in the authors and MMUSIC/ICE chairs. >>>=20 >>> Thanks! >>>=20 >>> Ben. >>>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic From nobody Wed May 2 23:59:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AC712E896 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 23:59:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DU9EZxBGGIVA for ; 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Thu, 3 May 2018 08:59:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.34]) by ESESSHC014.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.60]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 3 May 2018 08:57:54 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" CC: mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4A= Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 06:57:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [131.160.50.130] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-ID: <68485975D94E4543A4EFBF0AC1E3BC2F@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7ja715ldRBse7zCzmd55mt/ixdjmz xbcLtRYz/kxktji/cz2TxdTlj1ks1v5rZ3dg91iy5CeTx6ydT1gCmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4 Mib8XMBccF+vYkvnbMYGxilqXYycHBICJhKPJ29k6WLk4hASOMIo8f7RBihnEaPExTsv2boY OTjYBCwkuv9pg8RFBLYxStx495AJpJtZoF7i4fcuNhBbWKBAomfvfhYQW0SgUGLtjkdsEA2b GCVm3NoD1sAioCJx6vpMsCJeAWuJ/0svQ23r5ZL4vW8xWIJTwF5i85KXzCA2o4CYxPdTa6C2 iUvcejKfCeJuAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2MFsUUF9CQ2nLjNDnK1hICSxO0NThCtehLPTs1iAQkz A+3dOSkMIqwtsWzha2aIcwQlTs58wjKBUXwWkmWzkHTPQuiehaR7FpLuBYysqxhFi1OLi3PT jYz0Uosyk4uL8/P08lJLNjEC4/Pglt9WOxgPPnc8xCjAwajEw/tq46soIdbEsuLK3EOMEhzM SiK8U7qBQrwpiZVVqUX58UWlOanFhxilOViUxHmd0iyihATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYy2 S65/3XP0u5nC3kkahZcXWMw57Fdxo1f83jm9tLa7OodExSq/fFP6G7dXsH76CnezYM8TVrv/ 7dITW3b3XfFe1cbLG6f8f1SYpPdptrJRT/zSmB13I6031k6a9TQ84fWM5POSL//43HrN8V9S T/6quqj3lakKk1qXLo0yv2kne5B1arq0+jx9JZbijERDLeai4kQAVnu5sssCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 06:59:20 -0000 Hi, >Adam, Ekr, and I spoke last week, and came to the conclusion that trying >to untangle all JSEP dependencies on SIP would require more effort than >is justified, and that the most expedient approach would to just fix the >currently orphaned JSEP references to point to >draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp. > >Adam has removed this point from his discuss, and has entered an RFC >editor note on JSEP to change the relevant references. (If anyone sees >JSEP references that will still be orphaned after applying that note, >please speak up asap.) FIRST, what do you mean by "relevant references"? Is there a list of the trickle references that is to be changed (draft-ice-trickle -> draft-mmusic-trickle) in JSEP, or do you assume ALL trickle references in JSEP will be changed? After a quick scan of JSEP, it seems like most of the references CAN be changed, but e.g., section 1.1 of JSEP says: "However, [I-D.ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip] allows SIP to be used with trickle ICE [I-D.ietf-ice-trickle], in which the session description can be sent immediately and the transport information can be sent when available." If we are going to keep that sentence I assume the reference do draft-ietf-ice-trickle will stay. --- SECOND, in some cases it is not enough to simply change the reference, because the text in JSEP references specific section numbers, which are not the same in draft-ice-trickle and draft-music-trickle. Those section numbers need to be updated too (or removed completely), and I don't think the RFC editor is expected to figure out what the correct modified section numbers are? --- THIRD, bringing up an old pending issue related to this, I think we should now also change the core ICE reference in JSEP from RFC5245 to draft-5245bis. Draft-5245bis is now in the RFC editor's queue, and I think the MISREFs for 5245bis and JSEP are more or less the same, so I don't think 5245bis is going to delay the publication of JSEP. --- Regards, Christer >> On Apr 15, 2018, at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg >> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >>> Yes. The question is whether to just move the references in JSEP to >>>point to mmusic-trickle-sip, or do something different. >>=20 >> I think it would be good to have a list of all the reference instances >>that need to be modified. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Christer Holmberg >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> In addition, as I mentioned earlier, there are cases where JSEP >>>references draft-ice-trickle for things and procedures that don't exist >>>in draft-ice-trickle. Instead those references should be to >>>draft-mmusic-trickle. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Christer >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>=20 >>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 17.56, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Christer Holmberg >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Peter Saint-Andre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 4/3/18 2:41 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Ben Campbell >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Peter Saint-Andre >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On 4/3/18 12:27 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Just to complete, ice-bis doesn=B1t normatively reference >>>>>>>>>> ice-sip-SDP draft when it moved to using =B3usages =B3 indirecti= ons >>>>>>>>>> for signaling protocols. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Trickle ice can use similar approach and refer to trickle-sip >>>>>>>>>> as usage for trickle. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> It already does. That's why we pulled all the SDP/SIP stuff out >>>>>>>>> of draft-ietf-ice-trickle. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I assume Suhas meant separating the SDP stuff from the SIP >>>>>>>> stuff. (I also assume he will correct me if I am wrong.) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> That's right Ben .. I was just thinking minimal localized changes >>>>>>>> (thus small time to get new draft done) and then asking trickle, >>>>>>>> trickle-sip to refer to the new one. (work done to refer is much >>>>>>>> smaller for these drafts that are at the very end of approval >>>>>>>> journey) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I do agree with Adam, no matter what version of the proposal we >>>>>>>> pick, there is some work that needs to be done and we should do >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> These documents are on the telechat tomorrow. Are we proposing to >>>>>>> delay consideration by the IESG while we get this mess sorted out? >>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Peter, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I currently plan to leave it on. We may discuss a way forward on >>>>>> the telechat. Also, I=B1d like to get feedback on the rest of the >>>>>> draft(s) from the other ADs sooner than later. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Did you discuss this at the telechat? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Any other discussions on how to move forward with this? >>>>=20 >>>> Yes, Adam and I have been discussing this with the RTCWEB chairs. >>>>We've since discovered that this is not the only JSEP normative >>>>reference chain back to SIP. The RTCWEB chairs are currently >>>>discussing whether they can live with that. They may decide to just >>>>reference things as they stand. If their answer involves a request to >>>>restructure anything, I will pull in the authors and MMUSIC/ICE chairs. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks! >>>>=20 >>>> Ben. >>>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> mmusic mailing list >> mmusic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > From nobody Thu May 3 04:39:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0373E124E15 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 04:39:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUYe4ODX1S9W for ; 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boundary="00000000000095aeec056b4ba7aa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 11:39:27 -0000 --00000000000095aeec056b4ba7aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > >Adam, Ekr, and I spoke last week, and came to the conclusion that trying > >to untangle all JSEP dependencies on SIP would require more effort than > >is justified, and that the most expedient approach would to just fix the > >currently orphaned JSEP references to point to > >draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp. > > > >Adam has removed this point from his discuss, and has entered an RFC > >editor note on JSEP to change the relevant references. (If anyone sees > >JSEP references that will still be orphaned after applying that note, > >please speak up asap.) > > FIRST, what do you mean by "relevant references"? Is there a list of the > trickle references that is to be changed (draft-ice-trickle -> > draft-mmusic-trickle) in JSEP, or do you assume ALL trickle references in > JSEP will be changed? > > After a quick scan of JSEP, it seems like most of the references CAN be > changed, but e.g., section 1.1 of JSEP says: > > "However, [I-D.ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip] > allows SIP to be used with trickle ICE [I-D.ietf-ice-trickle], in > which the session description can be sent immediately and the > transport information can be sent when available." > > > If we are going to keep that sentence I assume the reference do > draft-ietf-ice-trickle will stay. > > --- > > SECOND, in some cases it is not enough to simply change the reference, > because the text in JSEP references specific section numbers, which are > not the same in draft-ice-trickle and draft-music-trickle. Those section > numbers need to be updated too (or removed completely), and I don't think > the RFC editor is expected to figure out what the correct modified sectio= n > numbers are? > > --- > > > THIRD, bringing up an old pending issue related to this, I think we shoul= d > now also change the core ICE reference in JSEP from RFC5245 to > draft-5245bis. Draft-5245bis is now in the RFC editor's queue, and I thin= k > the MISREFs for 5245bis and JSEP are more or less the same, so I don't > think 5245bis is going to delay the publication of JSEP. > This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol we expect people to implement, as they are non-identical. -Ekr > --- > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > >> On Apr 15, 2018, at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >>> Yes. The question is whether to just move the references in JSEP to > >>>point to mmusic-trickle-sip, or do something different. > >> > >> I think it would be good to have a list of all the reference instances > >>that need to be modified. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Christer > >> > >>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Christer Holmberg > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> In addition, as I mentioned earlier, there are cases where JSEP > >>>references draft-ice-trickle for things and procedures that don't exis= t > >>>in draft-ice-trickle. Instead those references should be to > >>>draft-mmusic-trickle. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Christer > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 17.56, Ben Campbell wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Christer Holmberg > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>>>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Peter Saint-Andre > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 4/3/18 2:41 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Ben Campbell >>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Peter Saint-Andre > >>>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 4/3/18 12:27 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Just to complete, ice-bis doesn=C4=85t normatively reference > >>>>>>>>>> ice-sip-SDP draft when it moved to using =C5=82usages =C5=82 i= ndirections > >>>>>>>>>> for signaling protocols. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Trickle ice can use similar approach and refer to trickle-sip > >>>>>>>>>> as usage for trickle. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It already does. That's why we pulled all the SDP/SIP stuff out > >>>>>>>>> of draft-ietf-ice-trickle. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I assume Suhas meant separating the SDP stuff from the SIP > >>>>>>>> stuff. (I also assume he will correct me if I am wrong.) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That's right Ben .. I was just thinking minimal localized change= s > >>>>>>>> (thus small time to get new draft done) and then asking trickle, > >>>>>>>> trickle-sip to refer to the new one. (work done to refer is much > >>>>>>>> smaller for these drafts that are at the very end of approval > >>>>>>>> journey) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I do agree with Adam, no matter what version of the proposal we > >>>>>>>> pick, there is some work that needs to be done and we should do > >>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> These documents are on the telechat tomorrow. Are we proposing to > >>>>>>> delay consideration by the IESG while we get this mess sorted out= ? > >>>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Peter, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I currently plan to leave it on. We may discuss a way forward on > >>>>>> the telechat. Also, I=C4=85d like to get feedback on the rest of t= he > >>>>>> draft(s) from the other ADs sooner than later. > >>>>> > >>>>> Did you discuss this at the telechat? > >>>>> > >>>>> Any other discussions on how to move forward with this? > >>>> > >>>> Yes, Adam and I have been discussing this with the RTCWEB chairs. > >>>>We've since discovered that this is not the only JSEP normative > >>>>reference chain back to SIP. The RTCWEB chairs are currently > >>>>discussing whether they can live with that. They may decide to just > >>>>reference things as they stand. If their answer involves a request to > >>>>restructure anything, I will pull in the authors and MMUSIC/ICE chair= s. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks! > >>>> > >>>> Ben. > >>>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> mmusic mailing list > >> mmusic@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > > > > --00000000000095aeec056b4ba7aa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Christer Holmberg &l= t;chris= ter.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

>Adam, Ekr, and I spoke last week, and came to the conclusion that tryin= g
>to untangle all JSEP dependencies on SIP would require more effort than=
>is justified, and that the most expedient approach would to just fix th= e
>currently orphaned JSEP references to point to
>draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp.
>
>Adam has removed this point from his discuss, and has entered an RFC >editor note on JSEP to change the relevant references. (If anyone sees<= br> >JSEP references that will still be orphaned after applying that note, >please speak up asap.)

FIRST, what do you mean by "relevant references"? Is there= a list of the
trickle references that is to be changed (draft-ice-trickle ->
draft-mmusic-trickle) in JSEP, or do you assume ALL trickle references in JSEP will be changed?

After a quick scan of JSEP, it seems like most of the references CAN be
changed, but e.g., section 1.1 of JSEP says:

=C2=A0 "However, [I-D.ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip]
=C2=A0 =C2=A0allows SIP to be used with trickle ICE [I-D.ietf-ice-trickle],= in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0which the session description can be sent immediately and the<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0transport information can be sent when available."


If we are going to keep that sentence I assume the reference do
draft-ietf-ice-trickle will stay.

---

SECOND, in some cases it is not enough to simply change the reference,
because the text in JSEP references specific section numbers, which are
not the same in draft-ice-trickle and draft-music-trickle. Those section numbers need to be updated too (or removed completely), and I don't thi= nk
the RFC editor is expected to figure out what the correct modified section<= br> numbers are?

---


THIRD, bringing up an old pending issue related to this, I think we should<= br> now also change the core ICE reference in JSEP from RFC5245 to
draft-5245bis. Draft-5245bis is now in the RFC editor's queue, and I th= ink
the MISREFs for 5245bis and JSEP are more or less the same, so I don't<= br> think 5245bis is going to delay the publication of JSEP.

This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but w= hich protocol we expect people
to implement, as they are non-iden= tical.

-Ekr


---

Regards,

Christer



>> On Apr 15, 2018, at 2:16 AM, Christer Holmberg
>><christer.holm= berg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> Yes. The question is whether to just move the references in JS= EP to
>>>point to mmusic-trickle-sip, or do something different.
>>
>> I think it would be good to have a list of all the reference insta= nces
>>that need to be modified.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christer
>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 1:29 PM, Christer Holmberg
>>><christer.= holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In addition, as I mentioned earlier, there are cases where JSE= P
>>>references draft-ice-trickle for things and procedures that don= 't exist
>>>in draft-ice-trickle. Instead those references should be to
>>>draft-mmusic-trickle.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Christer
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 17.56, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 13, 2018, at 7:06 AM, Christer Holmberg
>>>>><c= hrister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Peter Saint-Andre=
>>>>>>> <stp= eter@mozilla.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/3/18 2:41 PM, Suhas Nandakumar wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Ben Campb= ell <ben@nostrum.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:ben@nostrum.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Peter Sain= t-Andre
>>>>>>>>> <stpeter@mozilla.com <mailto:stpeter@mozilla.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/18 12:27 PM, Suhas Nandakumar w= rote:
>>>>>>>>>> Just to complete, ice-bis doesn=C4= =85t normatively reference
>>>>>>>>>> ice-sip-SDP draft when it moved to= using =C5=82usages =C5=82 indirections
>>>>>>>>>> for signaling protocols.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Trickle ice can use similar approa= ch and refer to trickle-sip
>>>>>>>>>> as usage for trickle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It already does. That's why we pul= led all the SDP/SIP stuff out
>>>>>>>>> of draft-ietf-ice-trickle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I assume Suhas meant separating the SDP st= uff from the SIP
>>>>>>>> stuff. (I=C2=A0 also assume he will correc= t me if I am wrong.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's right Ben .. I was just thinkin= g minimal localized changes
>>>>>>>> (thus small time to get new draft done) an= d then asking trickle,
>>>>>>>> trickle-sip to refer to the new one. (work= done to refer is much
>>>>>>>> smaller for these drafts that are at the v= ery end of approval
>>>>>>>> journey)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do agree with Adam, no matter what versi= on of the proposal we
>>>>>>>> pick, there is some work that needs to be = done and we should do
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These documents are on the telechat tomorrow. = Are we proposing to
>>>>>>> delay consideration by the IESG while we get t= his mess sorted out?
>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I currently plan to leave it on. We may discuss a = way forward on
>>>>>> the telechat. Also, I=C4=85d like to get feedback = on the rest of the
>>>>>> draft(s) from the other ADs sooner than later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you discuss this at the telechat?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other discussions on how to move forward with this= ?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Adam and I have been discussing this with the RTCWEB = chairs.
>>>>We've since discovered that this is not the only JSEP n= ormative
>>>>reference chain back to SIP. The RTCWEB chairs are currentl= y
>>>>discussing whether they can live with that. They may decide= to just
>>>>reference things as they stand. If their answer involves a = request to
>>>>restructure anything, I will pull in the authors and MMUSIC= /ICE chairs.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Ben.
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mmusic mailing list
>> mmusic@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmus= ic
>


--00000000000095aeec056b4ba7aa-- From nobody Thu May 3 05:01:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477E312D96B for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:01:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HcxpW39KFgNb for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DBCC12D9FE for ; 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Thu, 3 May 2018 14:00:17 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla CC: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYA Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 12:00:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [131.160.50.130] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D710D4872F31Bchristerholmbergericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7hy7Xr1dRBgeeGVrM7zzNbvFj7XJm ixWvz7FbfLtQazHjz0Rmi/M71zNZTF3+mMVi7b92dgcOjyVLfjJ5zNr5hMVj8uM25gDmKC6b lNSczLLUIn27BK6Mea3XWQpO8lZ0TnRrYDzJ3cXIySEhYCJx68R1li5GLg4hgSOMEm/+LWYE SQgJLGKU2HjQvouRg4NNwEKi+582SFhEQEHi158TYPXMApuZJF7e7mMCSQgLFEj07N3PAlFU KLF2xyM2kCIRgX2MEmvefGEDSbAIqEhcPfIdrIFXwFpi8p8brBDL2rglTu43BrE5BQIlNjbt ZwexGQXEJL6fWgNWzywgLnHryXwmiKsFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8D2yOqICexIYTt9lBjpYQUJK4 vcEJojVB4tTDg2wQawUlTs58wjKBUXQWkqmzkJTNQlIGETeQeH9uPjOErS2xbOFrKFtfYuOX s4wQtrXE0/8T2JHVLGDkWMUoWpxaXJybbmSsl1qUmVxcnJ+nl5dasokRGMkHt/zW3cG4+rXj IUYBDkYlHt6aV6+ihFgTy4orcw8xSnAwK4nwTukGCvGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREufV W7UnSkggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCbLxMEp1cCY6645afWmQ1O/CL0NnifQJ7IseH/H/Wo2E0MDvuYj r0U3qAhfCBI16PomNlnwQFb46YbPsucVXvHHnLO0DYwSSPu/xr5p//LZ7nL+T2WKDG8XKS43 lj5mPmPd9zwGztkzXmw76BLar+NfoL347sotNVbGMz8/Wp/Rd5r/13u/loUxsvsYl4YosRRn JBpqMRcVJwIAaVIZOOACAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 12:01:28 -0000 --_000_D710D4872F31Bchristerholmbergericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, > This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol we exp= ect people > to implement, as they are non-identical. Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=92s message that we=92ll ask the RFC edito= r to change the references. Regards, Christer --_000_D710D4872F31Bchristerholmbergericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <23E8A6C7E0BCD9478E0C868DE94AD425@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

> This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protoco= l we expect people
> to implement, as they are non-identical.

Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=92s message that we=92ll ask the RFC = editor to change the references.

Regards,

Christer

 --_000_D710D4872F31Bchristerholmbergericssoncom_-- From nobody Thu May 3 05:03:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EA912DA17 for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:03:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOmI6DF5G08Y for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot0-x229.google.com (mail-ot0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 282A812D9FE for ; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 77-v6so20283320otd.4 for ; Thu, 03 May 2018 05:02:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Q8rodrA0f0iqtigLmXK5+vweUgiYodSReI4LwmpkUaA=; b=uflFAQ/9rnIaq216nTzVVEclDODs9rAbjXISGsvmVDtKn/4jSO+2zqF4UKDr38cEw1 nitrpvIfXqM78Po3h6pPa47GlnDPlxg/I6E+wF4yMCfDunvUIZ7E0cF28jISujRWh6Qn EVbrcYBfJ8QyX9LI6dWpurEDh5MVidQNxWDNDm1fLJE6wcVxtLsnnQ4yr0Rc0Z4XEr5n GKE8kfoR0uZaBVwpr1yvjvs32xQWtWtoNdT6g36KJB+Dl/KQ7txBnBluB6sS/l+l3nhU FrW1DgYNN4C3cGObk7W2DhIDBWOoX8b4oHAO8RLkzc8kDTibZ0+eTUmEYk0kAGRb6fZq WTXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Q8rodrA0f0iqtigLmXK5+vweUgiYodSReI4LwmpkUaA=; b=WgfTmDZS1ksUsbP67U046ZWaYfEb8GSov9309cvEy0h78ZJiYhKFqHRcUpE07TlacI dIyRutrkrVUnIx8dZEGxweG0SsAk0ygKkoD18q2NxVBu5WTY2e7C3N7BsQy/w7pZqCyK BlYArypRexnPJ+SH9gXku1lYngVHoRfiQEkVnCSNFWnr7A3X8LaJniY/3hQyYlA+lQNk kLeDAatDtvekSiWt9AwzVfAFlqZ1DKoE4m/mrVd5/kv1qQJY5K/kEeqYoDyhqFj6VtZl taYPdFeAZ/au1jNPSTb1yTryLaFt8b6saohEEbYkZXhfLBVmcx5cTQVPgO+9DGz3RNuM Z9fw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tDbkNzr08i54agf7ctG/+25tM6OZ3K9HHIrSwY7HmdIhmHvXZZz Dg3BGYV1t3u9gH11FOqtTuRLMCnOOgFiQ5sfYWIBoQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZoSe5jmLsB0exSsBUDBgr2WhhyC7r/ijBe5T1I7wWrnsGEIdsPxLGhskIhzk5tuSJacxD206Ji53u2Vzm2ZTww= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3694:: with SMTP id h20-v6mr1058994otc.176.1525348972412; Thu, 03 May 2018 05:02:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.201.118.130 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2018 05:02:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 05:02:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8d914056b4bfb76" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 12:03:07 -0000 --000000000000a8d914056b4bfb76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 5:00 AM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol we > expect people > > to implement, as they are non-identical. > > Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=E2=80=99s message that we=E2=80=99ll ask= the RFC editor > to change the references. > But changing the ICE reference *also* changes the protocol. -Ekr Regards, > > Christer > > --000000000000a8d914056b4bfb76 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 5:00 AM, Christer Holmberg <= ;christ= er.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

> This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which pro= tocol we expect people
> to implement, as they are non-identical.

Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=E2=80=99s message that we=E2= =80=99ll ask the RFC editor to change the references.

But changing the ICE reference *also= * changes the protocol.

-Ekr

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Regards,

Christer

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Thu, 3 May 2018 14:16:32 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Eric Rescorla CC: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYA///Ne4AABuHFAA== Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 12:16:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [131.160.50.130] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, >> This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol we ex= pect people >> to implement, as they are non-identical. > > Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=92s message that we=92ll ask the RFC edi= tor to change the references. > > But changing the ICE reference *also* changes the protocol. Fair enough. My suggestion is that we do that change. Regards, Christer --_000_D710D7D42F328christerholmbergericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

>> This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which pro= tocol we expect people
>> to implement, as they are non-identical.
>
> Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=92s message that we=92ll ask the= RFC editor to change the references.
>
> But changing the ICE reference *also* changes the protocol.

Fair enough. My suggestion is that we do that change.

Regards,

Christer


--_000_D710D7D42F328christerholmbergericssoncom_-- From nobody Thu May 3 09:32:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5863312E885; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:32:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QAiF4CixcOHS; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E32A3128D2E; Thu, 3 May 2018 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.86] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w43GWDqg025829 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 3 May 2018 11:32:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.86] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4DDBD498-2C88-47F6-85D9-79BEBAF44028"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 11:32:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Eric Rescorla , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" To: Christer Holmberg References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 16:32:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4DDBD498-2C88-47F6-85D9-79BEBAF44028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Christer, Have you looked at the RFC editor note Adam entered for jsep? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep/writeup/ (scoll = down) > On May 3, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > > This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol = we expect people > > to implement, as they are non-identical. >=20 > Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=E2=80=99s message that we=E2=80=99ll = ask the RFC editor to change the references. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 --Apple-Mail=_4DDBD498-2C88-47F6-85D9-79BEBAF44028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlrrOYwACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A02chAAiZ4Xq0Lwjeh5y1pFJ9hZqSXIQqevEsMbKd0GByC3ky4ORqWhXwLvCKjx xAv00KEwEbtM/2qaRGp8WO0/xCt18BGgIUePjYSCvTJV02jVH2/KUFxPxo6vln/G AQLdNPyq9R8yd2CnyPuzObHzbam+BiSHv9LO21caBiC6+4u88+PSgepQdZ+RjAyc bu5ZH4gzdTCQ5ZJ9bS45HSXYrDKfPi0hpsKuoPMCEz3bPQ7ltchafTC/oRYkluWQ GXTWRnRck8fkIZPHismA/bOAeZ8LKQFOcYiZPeViSAO/sob+rx1YIpDKvsYtQuO1 /rJZu50RGCcxpwg82N14O6rXJkFXlXxbtyBsnwbqCVcG0ebL+0Z1m4p1GQTOXpyX NW2WFHGdorEbMndO7rf3UTZXXdubu1isOTxrFtIWWoXaMKtnpQIUAzUmTrRo3KeI 23AuQ2V5VK2nEcghMlH75ds2uTGZDR32KXgwLD2nNI7tGWa6vj1y6Wt9U1ZkT8NS hLe2oKxnKU0kRCZt0l3zs7HqnsPzTXjFmYwAuhF3CUm0nKxHdYX/1ou0NP/hq2HD /+rlpec7Uc5F2w2FJAEzv7kMWakniXlVQj05qAM++05uEsjKRuq8ueBK7oyAA78B sZzAGU5TMmR+a+/paKt0pBr1V6JVQ1KKFClDktrCvhohOxSDamY= =PIJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4DDBD498-2C88-47F6-85D9-79BEBAF44028-- From nobody Thu May 3 10:34:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FC712EAE2 for ; 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Thu, 3 May 2018 19:32:36 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Ben Campbell CC: Eric Rescorla , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYAgAAY7ACAADI8QA== Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 17:32:35 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.162] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7sS6/x+sog2cH2Szmd55mt/ixdjmz xYrX59gtvl2otZjxZyKzxfmd65kspi5/zGKx9l87uwOHx5IlP5k8Zu18wuIx+XEbcwBzFJdN SmpOZllqkb5dAldG874dLAUN7BUzj59na2B8wdbFyMkhIWAisalzKhOILSRwhFHicWNAFyMX kL2IUeLEt5lACQ4ONgELie5/2iA1IgJKEs+bt7KA1DALrGeS6JiwDqxZWKBAYuOcVjaIokKJ tTseQdnnGCW2LrAEsVkEVCRm7DsKFucV8JW4tb6TDWLZW26J1nevWUASnAL2EsfPXgErYhQQ k/h+ag3YAmYBcYlbT+YzQVwtILFkz3lmCFtU4uXjf6wQtpLE0/9LwI5mFtCUWL9LH6JVUWJK 90N2iL2CEidnPmGZwCg6C8nUWQgds5B0zELSsYCRZRWjaHFqcXFuupGRXmpRZnJxcX6eXl5q ySZGYKQd3PLbagfjweeOhxgFOBiVeHhd9F5HCbEmlhVX5h5ilOBgVhLhjVECCvGmJFZWpRbl xxeV5qQWH2KU5mBREud1SrOIEhJITyxJzU5NLUgtgskycXBKNTAK2QStjs0+VVDVmumy6TXr DGvvN+/vcy2U1D8RWb1MJOTZVZn41haB9ML996S/H974wK3iw9rXhx+1f3wsM537tbuV6Ynj R5rnydp27/5xSH/NSQbxSx+9J+g6/zjGp/YigX+XWHFdYszjGZrPFjktLC3NfnsmPud41u5J 0vaty8p/ZJxh0vmixFKckWioxVxUnAgA9yF9TrACAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 17:34:24 -0000 SGksDQoNCj5IYXZlIHlvdSBsb29rZWQgYXQgdGhlIFJGQyBlZGl0b3Igbm90ZSBBZGFtIGVudGVy ZWQgZm9yIGpzZXA/DQo+DQo+aHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQt aWV0Zi1ydGN3ZWItanNlcC93cml0ZXVwLyAgKHNjb2xsIGRvd24pDQoNCk5vLCBJIGhhdmVuJ3Qu IEkgZGlkbid0IGtub3cgaXQgd2FzIHRoZXJlLiBTb3JyeSBmb3IgdGhhdC4NCg0KSSB3aWxsIHRh a2UgYSBsb29rLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQo+IE9uIE1heSAzLCAyMDE4LCBh dCA3OjAwIEFNLCBDaHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZyA8Y2hyaXN0ZXIuaG9sbWJlcmdAZXJpY3Nzb24u Y29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhpLA0KPiANCj4gPiBUaGlzIGlzbid0IHNpbXBseSBhbiBpc3N1 ZSBvZiB3aGF0IHdlIHJlZmVyZW5jZSBidXQgd2hpY2ggcHJvdG9jb2wgDQo+ID4gd2UgZXhwZWN0 IHBlb3BsZSB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQsIGFzIHRoZXkgYXJlIG5vbi1pZGVudGljYWwuDQo+IA0KPiBT dXJlLiBCdXQsIG15IGNvbW1lbnQgd2FzIG9uIEJlbuKAmXMgbWVzc2FnZSB0aGF0IHdl4oCZbGwg YXNrIHRoZSBSRkMgZWRpdG9yIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlcy4NCj4gDQo+IFJlZ2Fy ZHMsDQo+IA0KPiBDaHJpc3Rlcg0KPiANCg0K From nobody Fri May 4 00:08:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FC812785F for ; 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c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1525417684; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=MZhZBlNV6CpwaEeM2R2YIfBGeJNBS4SsoS71meKHKHU=; b=EbAmjuqURQq+ijuvRgpzsb26uSFmhBfg05CCze6kN3su2bHyrXycCr8Si8q1fgeu 9LnOkDoJQOn2vlYFVI5vWILiuvEORmrgRnrAKf7Fjt+Aloy82JN66p28PwCHY50x /KRkB+NDx0gj5u5M5xXRj7fpMCxczEt1JJgKacb2EnY=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-98ba79c0000064d0-f1-5aec06d4f6f4 Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.87]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 49.20.25808.4D60CEA5; Fri, 4 May 2018 09:08:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.34]) by ESESSHC023.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Fri, 4 May 2018 09:07:14 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Ben Campbell CC: Eric Rescorla , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYAgAAY7ACAADI8QIAA9U0A Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 07:07:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [131.160.50.130] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <644A5570A2D3E1499F2D9E083EB2BB18@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrCIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uO4VtjdRBhsumVjM7zzNbvFj7XJm ixWvz7FbfLtQazHjz0Rmi/M71zNZTF3+mMVi7b92dgcOjyVLfjJ5zNr5hMVj8uM25gDmKC6b lNSczLLUIn27BK6MFf+PsBVM5q1YtPI3YwPjHq4uRk4OCQETiTmnt7N3MXJxCAkcYZRoa9rB CuEsYpS48PMUcxcjBwebgIVE9z9tkAYRgQiJb3cWM4HUMAusZ5LomLCOCSQhLFAg0bN3PwtE UaHE2h2P2ECKRAQuMUps613PCpJgEVCReLr8O5jNK2At8fblbiaIbRt5JK7uuAc2iVPAT+L/ vH9gkxgFxCS+n1oDFmcWEJe49WQ+E8TdAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/gc2VFRAT2LDidvsIFdLCChJ 3N7gBNGqJ3Fj6hQ2CNtaYvXMO6wQtrbEsoWvmSHuEZQ4OfMJywRG8VlIts1C0j4LSfssJO2z kLQvYGRdxShanFqclJtuZKyXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiREYtwe3/FbdwXj5jeMhRgEORiUeXqFv r6OEWBPLiitzDzFKcDArifDOOgQU4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+xCjNwaIkzvvQfHOUkEB6Yklq dmpqQWoRTJaJg1OqgTHGZN7cDDbvBfV6Z+r2n3PcNfF2xu+ds3p6j++uLJpy7eGu+v8Lpu95 HCktHyl0577iu6sHLJ0tOFiDYi6vW+zx19anNmgjn9wmC90mW2vJHtVpB1+kWT/uv+hnPtlp XtTMM+LO1/urnllNOPrz4Iyb3GtaTCVZ9N0SdGfKrxY783TR7Ziyuv1KLMUZiYZazEXFiQAi xUdc1wIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 07:08:13 -0000 Hi, I had a look at Adam=B9s note to the RFC editor. As far as fixing the trickle references are concerned, it looks ok. Regarding core ICE, I still think we shall replace the RFC5245 reference with a reference to draft-5245bis, for the following technical reasons: 1) JSEP implicitly references 5245bis, via other references 2) Trickle ICE is based on 5245bis, and I think (please correct me if I=B9m wrong) that one must implement draft-5245bis in order to be able to implement trickle according to the spec. Finally, an editorial nit. Section 13.5.2.1 says: "The candidate details are specified in an IceCandidate field, using the same SDP syntax as the "candidate-attribute" field defined in [RFC5245], Section 15.1." There is no "candidate-attribute" field. I suggest s/"candidate-attribute"/"candidate" attribute Regards, Christer On 03/05/18 20:32, "Christer Holmberg" wrote: >Hi, > >>Have you looked at the RFC editor note Adam entered for jsep? >> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep/writeup/ (scoll >>down) > >No, I haven't. I didn't know it was there. Sorry for that. > >I will take a look. > >Regards, > >Christer > >> On May 3, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Christer Holmberg >> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> > This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol >> > we expect people to implement, as they are non-identical. >>=20 >> Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=B9s message that we=B9ll ask the RFC >>editor to change the references. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 > From nobody Fri May 4 16:32:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A74712DA1D for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 16:32:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hnHruxOV9aLE for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 16:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BC211201FA for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 16:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id a13-v6so16412586pgu.4 for ; Fri, 04 May 2018 16:32:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla.com; s=google; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Gx6X9Uc3XpNMz3iQFn6B8epg67jVsacqHafa9WQ9PX0=; b=gVeOKw6UuPxNRbMjTgtSZTTfyyqYatw/puREKbD8JwOWPP8uq2FCYqLffM8kjX4eM0 Xqg4D4m2mactrYKNteN+lSzcbc38/y8YAoyG4svKUTuLIvuWQQY4WCtlDgJruYal36xE qtwUQSvIg71Gu/j4WrOYKv4FyAQ7Ns0KgK4U4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Gx6X9Uc3XpNMz3iQFn6B8epg67jVsacqHafa9WQ9PX0=; b=V4iqoaFKRcrGUmv1jW84DX6HPAkZj5DcjMBubFXMOAHLnuI2TOldx8Zhie7XJd53Kl ouNyZhvieShYeYhNGVigydwmJIOQi5TRd0OSeC/gfh7/rrnaXUbb/53pSzGYvDmIHtxR l6PEsWEPBO4ZkiMUITIWlvWTm9cFZp+fngh+KdwVX5AD4Earci48NTb/JZSapawNatXp g4GLY6KnqKmguR25ojnacoAxpdyEAmr5ycLRhm1Ri6JNGk3ivdcsBXy/CTI9uWsdYqpz 5PBjSsvpbiksgOwgj75OPDxDM6nUyiD6muummHgiXXDJCV7DzWoVFftU1HKQBbEYLvto Xf0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAdDAOJ4c9ENMe7pw53cKNFzkhuU0jjcPxFikN3+8a7jqtRJX2p Dxfa8iknInA1/eZsTRdMy1m/wQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZqPXAOREFHA4aa77RzrYiz2JWp2KQWjnBHm20nInpLVar5Esm+PjR4GETZVOpEB2pSCxRZ1pw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:52ed:: with SMTP id a100-v6mr29654014pli.131.1525476765592; Fri, 04 May 2018 16:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:bdfe:eedf:56fb:d0e7? ([2620:101:80fc:224:bdfe:eedf:56fb:d0e7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k13sm40503183pfj.186.2018.05.04.16.32.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 May 2018 16:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Nils Ohlmeier Message-Id: <0F8D6F20-D112-4A07-9256-AFF07E470D2A@mozilla.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0F69C971-020F-4071-98AE-5EFEC01281E1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 16:32:42 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ben Campbell , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" To: Christer Holmberg References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [rtcweb] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 23:32:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0F69C971-020F-4071-98AE-5EFEC01281E1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_779E90B1-C496-41C0-BDBA-141BBC48FF45" --Apple-Mail=_779E90B1-C496-41C0-BDBA-141BBC48FF45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Christer, > On May 4, 2018, at 00:07, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > 2) Trickle ICE is based on 5245bis, and I think (please correct me if = I=C2=B9m > wrong) that one must implement draft-5245bis in order to be able to > implement trickle according to the spec. Chrome and Firefox both have implemented trickle without supporting = 5245bis. So it works fine if one just implements 5245. Although I guess by the true definition of the hopefully soon published = trickle RFC neither of these have implemented trickle correct, as they = both don=E2=80=99t support the new 3rd nomination algorithm. Nils Ohlmeier >=20 > Finally, an editorial nit. >=20 > Section 13.5.2.1 says: >=20 > "The candidate details are specified in an IceCandidate field, using > the same SDP syntax as the "candidate-attribute" field defined in > [RFC5245], Section 15.1." >=20 > There is no "candidate-attribute" field. I suggest > s/"candidate-attribute"/"candidate" attribute >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 03/05/18 20:32, "Christer Holmberg" > > wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >>> Have you looked at the RFC editor note Adam entered for jsep? >>>=20 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep/writeup/ = (scoll >>> down) >>=20 >> No, I haven't. I didn't know it was there. Sorry for that. >>=20 >> I will take a look. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >>> On May 3, 2018, at 7:00 AM, Christer Holmberg >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>>> This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which protocol >>>> we expect people to implement, as they are non-identical. >>>=20 >>> Sure. But, my comment was on Ben=C2=B9s message that we=C2=B9ll ask = the RFC >>> editor to change the references. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Christer >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb = --Apple-Mail=_779E90B1-C496-41C0-BDBA-141BBC48FF45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Christer,

On May 4, 2018, at 00:07, Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

2) Trickle = ICE is based on 5245bis, and I think (please correct me if = I=C2=B9m
wrong) that = one must implement draft-5245bis in order to be able to
implement = trickle according to the spec.

Chrome and Firefox both have implemented trickle = without supporting 5245bis.
So it works fine if one just = implements 5245.
Although I guess by the true definition of = the hopefully soon published trickle RFC neither of these have = implemented trickle correct, as they both don=E2=80=99t support the new = 3rd nomination algorithm.

  = Nils Ohlmeier


Finally, an editorial nit.

Section 13.5.2.1 says:

  "The candidate details are specified in an = IceCandidate field, using
   the same SDP syntax as the = "candidate-attribute" field defined in
   [RFC5245], Section 15.1."

There is no = "candidate-attribute" field. I suggest
s/"candidate-attribute"/"candidate" attribute

Regards,

Christer





On 03/05/18 20:32, "Christer Holmberg" <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
wrote:

Hi,

Have you looked at the = RFC editor note Adam entered for jsep?

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep/writeup= /  (scoll
down)

No, I haven't. I didn't know it was there. Sorry for that.

I will take a look.

Regards,

Christer

On May 3, = 2018, at 7:00 AM, Christer Holmberg
<christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

This isn't simply an issue of what we reference but which = protocol
we expect people to implement, as they are = non-identical.

Sure. But, my = comment was on Ben=C2=B9s message that we=C2=B9ll ask the RFC
editor to change the references.

Regards,

Christer



_______________________________________________
rtcweb = mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

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Sat, 5 May 2018 08:46:54 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Nils Ohlmeier CC: Ben Campbell , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYAgAAY7ACAADI8QIAA9U0AgADgSACAAJjFwA== Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 06:46:54 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EB3160@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0F8D6F20-D112-4A07-9256-AFF07E470D2A@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <0F8D6F20-D112-4A07-9256-AFF07E470D2A@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7ou6Z4LdRBq/X6FnM7zzNbvFj7XJm i28Xai1m/JnIbHF+53omi6nLH7NYXJ83mdFi7b92dgcOjyVLfjJ59B3oYvWYtfMJSwBzFJdN SmpOZllqkb5dAlfG41W72Ar2iFZsXfmAsYHxi0gXIyeHhICJxMRDv1i6GLk4hASOMEpsv3Kd EcJZxCjR9eQxUxcjBwebgIVE9z9tEFNEQFPixEY+kBJmgc1MElc3TmQFGSQsUClx6e45RhBb RKBKYs2p38wgRSICjxglfhx7wg7SzCKgInH5TT5IDa+Ar8SNCVOZQGwhgRm8El+3yIPYnAL2 En33N4LNZBQQk/h+ag1YDbOAuMStJ/OZII4WkFiy5zwzhC0q8fLxP1YIW0li1q2NYCczA925 fpc+RKuixJTuh+wQawUlTs58wjKBUXQWkqmzEDpmIemYhaRjASPLKkbR4tTi4tx0I2O91KLM 5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzAODu45bfuDsbVrx0PMQpwMCrx8DoEvo0SYk0sK67MPcQowcGsJMK7/cCb KCHelMTKqtSi/Pii0pzU4kOM0hwsSuK8eqv2RAkJpCeWpGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYF7bLeS+9 2nUh/uwbm/cGIR2/a1Ye6jo62874ycZ5F1dvvt4w6efecJ7pd4MLF9wPsDLNmDBNorjJWH5C V/b+B5+nyS2aVBe1rEY3RUyB/018qV53SFe5rvoziS2fOYveOl/59Cef7eiO/bW9FTPVI5iM DWdLKSxeltH1zi9kbfGONxqcZoo7lFiKMxINtZiLihMB5qGtgK8CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [rtcweb] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2018 06:48:50 -0000 SGkgTmlscywNCg0KPj4gMikgVHJpY2tsZSBJQ0UgaXMgYmFzZWQgb24gNTI0NWJpcywgYW5kIEkg dGhpbmsgKHBsZWFzZSBjb3JyZWN0IG1lIGlmIEnCuW0NCj4+IHdyb25nKSB0aGF0IG9uZSBtdXN0 IGltcGxlbWVudCBkcmFmdC01MjQ1YmlzIGluIG9yZGVyIHRvIGJlIGFibGUgdG8NCj4+IGltcGxl bWVudCB0cmlja2xlIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgc3BlYy4NCj4NCj4gQ2hyb21lIGFuZCBGaXJl Zm94IGJvdGggaGF2ZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZCB0cmlja2xlIHdpdGhvdXQgc3VwcG9ydGluZyA1MjQ1 YmlzLg0KPiBTbyBpdCB3b3JrcyBmaW5lIGlmIG9uZSBqdXN0IGltcGxlbWVudHMgNTI0NS4NCj4g QWx0aG91Z2ggSSBndWVzcyBieSB0aGUgdHJ1ZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBob3BlZnVsbHkg c29vbiBwdWJsaXNoZWQgdHJpY2tsZSBSRkMgbmVpdGhlciBvZiB0aGVzZSANCj4gaGF2ZSBpbXBs ZW1lbnRlZCB0cmlja2xlIGNvcnJlY3QsIGFzIHRoZXkgYm90aCBkb27igJl0IHN1cHBvcnQgdGhl IG5ldyAzcmQgbm9taW5hdGlvbiBhbGdvcml0aG0uDQoNCkNvcnJlY3QuIFJGQyA1MjQ1IGRvZXMg Y29udGFpbiBhbGwgdGhlIHBpZWNlcyBuZWVkZWQgdG8gZGVmaW5lIGEgdHJpY2tsZSBleHRlbnNp b24sIGJ1dCBwZW9wbGUgd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgdGhlIGRldGFpbHMgdGhlbXNl bHZlcy4NCg0KQmVjYXVzZSwgaWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50IHRyaWNrbGUgYWNjb3Jk aW5nIHRvIHRoZSB0cmlja2xlIGRyYWZ0IGl0IGhhcyB0byBiZSBiYXNlZCBvbiA1MjQ1YmlzLCBi ZWNhdXNlIHNvbWUgb2YgdGhlIGFsZ29yaXRobXMvcHJvY2VkdXJlcyBhcmUgNTI0NWJpcy1zcGVj aWZpYy4gDQoNCkZvciBleGFtcGxlLCB0aGUgY2hlY2sgbGlzdCBzdGF0ZSB1cGRhdGUgcHJvY2Vk dXJlcyBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDEyIGFyZSBiYXNlZCBvbiA1MjQ1YmlzLiBUaG9zZSBhcmUgZGlmZmVy ZW50IGZyb20gdGhlIHByb2NlZHVyZXMgaW4gUkZDIDUyNDUsIGFuZCB3ZXJlIGRvbmUgYmFzZWQg b24gIkVtaWwncyB0YWJsZSIuDQoNClNlY3Rpb24gOCBpcyBhbm90aGVyIGV4YW1wbGUgd2hlcmUg dGhlIHByb2NlZHVyZXMgYXJlIDUyNDViaXMtc3BlY2lmaWMuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlz dGVyDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCk9uIDAzLzA1LzE4IDIwOjMyLCAiQ2hyaXN0ZXIgSG9sbWJlcmci IDxjaHJpc3Rlci5ob2xtYmVyZ0Blcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+DQp3cm90ZToNCg0KDQpIaSwNCg0KDQpI YXZlIHlvdSBsb29rZWQgYXQgdGhlIFJGQyBlZGl0b3Igbm90ZSBBZGFtIGVudGVyZWQgZm9yIGpz ZXA/DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtcnRjd2Vi LWpzZXAvd3JpdGV1cC8gwqAoc2NvbGwNCmRvd24pDQoNCk5vLCBJIGhhdmVuJ3QuIEkgZGlkbid0 IGtub3cgaXQgd2FzIHRoZXJlLiBTb3JyeSBmb3IgdGhhdC4NCg0KSSB3aWxsIHRha2UgYSBsb29r Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQoNCk9uIE1heSAzLCAyMDE4LCBhdCA3OjAwIEFN LCBDaHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZw0KPGNocmlzdGVyLmhvbG1iZXJnQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4gd3Jv dGU6DQoNCkhpLA0KDQoNClRoaXMgaXNuJ3Qgc2ltcGx5IGFuIGlzc3VlIG9mIHdoYXQgd2UgcmVm ZXJlbmNlIGJ1dCB3aGljaCBwcm90b2NvbA0Kd2UgZXhwZWN0IHBlb3BsZSB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQs IGFzIHRoZXkgYXJlIG5vbi1pZGVudGljYWwuDQoNClN1cmUuIEJ1dCwgbXkgY29tbWVudCB3YXMg b24gQmVuwrlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgdGhhdCB3ZcK5bGwgYXNrIHRoZSBSRkMNCmVkaXRvciB0byBjaGFu Z2UgdGhlIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnJ0Y3dlYiBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCnJ0Y3dlYkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9ydGN3ZWINCg0K From nobody Wed May 9 08:01:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A9D124D68; 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Wed, 9 May 2018 15:01:25 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com (64.101.220.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 9 May 2018 11:01:24 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) by XCH-RTP-004.cisco.com ([64.101.220.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 9 May 2018 11:01:24 -0400 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: Christer Holmberg CC: Ben Campbell , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , Eric Rescorla , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , RTCWeb IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHT4wUD4dlCjPaQK0KuuVtb52JvA6QfahIAgAhgIoA= Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 15:01:24 +0000 Message-ID: <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.228.210] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8AB447375B8B421C9A3E54A8183BCBBDciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 15:01:31 -0000 --_000_8AB447375B8B421C9A3E54A8183BCBBDciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On May 4, 2018, at 1:07 AM, Christer Holmberg > wrote: Regarding core ICE, I still think we shall replace the RFC5245 reference with a reference to draft-5245bis, for the following technical reasons: I would view this as a huge changes that would need some pretty significant= testing and discussion in the WG. Right now, as far as I can tell the brow= ser have implemented ice not bis. I would like WebRTC 1.0 to be what peopl= e have implemented - the reason it is ice not bis is it is unclear if bis p= erforms as wells as ice. --_000_8AB447375B8B421C9A3E54A8183BCBBDciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On May 4, 2018, at 1:07 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@eri= csson.com> wrote:

Regarding core ICE, I still think we shall replace the RFC5245 reference
with a reference to draft-5245bis, for the following technical reasons:<= /div>

I would view this as a huge changes that would need some pr= etty significant testing and discussion in the WG. Right now, as far as I c= an tell the browser have implemented ice not bis.  I would like WebRTC= 1.0 to be what people have implemented - the reason it is ice not bis is it is unclear if bis performs as wells a= s ice. 


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Wed, 9 May 2018 22:46:25 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" CC: Ben Campbell , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , Eric Rescorla , mmusic WG , "ice@ietf.org" , RTCWeb IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTy2yX73Ehi4UWF02QdXKK9x8zEKPvKNAAgAAAqICAAAKUAIAAAkMAgAAC5ICAAAKPAIAABSyAgAABrACAAA6TAIAAAI6AgAAWLYCAAUXTgIAAFRIAgA3/bYD///x6AIAAXRFN///2vYCAAnGPMIAbnZwAgAC5G4CAABtpgIAAORYAgAAY7ACAADI8QIAA9U0AgAgtFQCAAH+FkA== Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 20:46:25 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.163] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrOIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7tK5S3Ocogyd/OC3md55mt/ixdjmz xYrX59gtOiazWXy7UGsx489EZovzO9czWUxd/pjFYu2/dnYHTo8pvzeyeixZ8pPJY9bOJywe kx+3MQewRHHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBl3L22nbngMEfFn11zmRoY77J1MXJySAiYSHy6dgzMFhI4 wiix/1tBFyMXkL2IUWLVxweMXYwcHGwCFhLd/7RBakQEDCWa9sxjAqlhFjjLJNHTMYkVJCEs UCax4fs1sHoRgXKJl58NQGpEBB4xSnxdspwJpIZFQEViwt077CA2r4CvxIG1TUwQy6bxSsy4 tIoVpJlTwFZi8/cEkBpGATGJ76fWgPUyC4hL3HoynwniaAGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jhbCVJJZP 28IOUa8ncWPqFDYIW1ti2cLXzBB7BSVOznzCMoFRdBaSsbOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjKLFqcVJ uelGRnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5qSWbGIHRd3DLb4MdjC+fOx5iFOBgVOLhdff4HCXEmlhWXJl7iFGC g1lJhPf/g09RQrwpiZVVqUX58UWlOanFhxilOViUxHkt/DZHCQmkJ5akZqemFqQWwWSZODil Ghjd2vtnlXS/4e6ykZj1bsaRBe/fBO1p2Pn7p9m7S8EOa4Kdo6JnTjgiYfJN3d9H331BacP3 TdPXJ/cYaHXnZgs0sHr/6DWYa+qsur2rb47Xw7pLW0MOBBRfv8Op8n7Ggs0Pnts/1w/St8n1 evPu/8LbKx5Inr+s3558PDbm5Bvn9Vl3V738e6FPiaU4I9FQi7moOBEAFM6uproCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 20:46:35 -0000 Hi, >> Regarding core ICE, I still think we shall replace the RFC5245 reference >> with a reference to draft-5245bis, for the following technical reasons: > > I would view this as a huge changes that would need some pretty significa= nt testing and discussion in the=20 > WG. Right now, as far as I can tell the browser have implemented ice not = bis. So, "the browser" supports e.g., both types of nomination? > I would like WebRTC 1.0 to be what people have implemented - the reason i= t is ice not bis is it is unclear if bis performs as wells as ice.=A0 I assume our primary task is not to document what has been implemented, but= to provide procedures on how to implement things. As I said earlier, e.g., many of the trickle ICE procedures are based on th= e 5245bis procedures. If you want to implement trickle based on RFC 5245 th= ere are details and procedures that you will have to figure out yourself, b= ecause they are not documented, which means that different implementations = likely will do things in different ways. Regards, Christer From nobody Wed May 9 13:51:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9698712EA52 for ; Wed, 9 May 2018 13:51:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JD1P64t_a8AD for ; Wed, 9 May 2018 13:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x236.google.com (mail-io0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAB9412DB6E for ; 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Wed, 09 May 2018 13:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([76.25.3.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m16-v6sm13473247iob.69.2018.05.09.13.51.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 May 2018 13:51:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Christer Holmberg , "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" Cc: Ben Campbell , mmusic WG , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , RTCWeb IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> From: Peter Saint-Andre Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@mozilla.com; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="g7gqvuhwetTRoR0RuxTs2sqSe6emN7MJV" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 20:51:44 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --g7gqvuhwetTRoR0RuxTs2sqSe6emN7MJV Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="EKnQO5mXKLsg69JrwE3qgRSepZM8310J4"; protected-headers="v1" From: Peter Saint-Andre To: Christer Holmberg , "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" Cc: Ben Campbell , mmusic WG , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , RTCWeb IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] [Ice] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <6b2e132d-88ee-9274-b19d-c24937e46ad2@nostrum.com> <07de7983-293d-f97e-8ca9-08713ce48e1c@mozilla.com> <3E157C5A-A2CD-4361-9BFE-B87EA71D8FFD@nostrum.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> --EKnQO5mXKLsg69JrwE3qgRSepZM8310J4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/9/18 2:46 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >=20 >>> Regarding core ICE, I still think we shall replace the RFC5245 refere= nce >>> with a reference to draft-5245bis, for the following technical reason= s: >> >> I would view this as a huge changes that would need some pretty signif= icant testing and discussion in the=20 >> WG. Right now, as far as I can tell the browser have implemented ice n= ot bis. >=20 > So, "the browser" supports e.g., both types of nomination? >=20 >> I would like WebRTC 1.0 to be what people have implemented - the reaso= n it is ice not bis is it is unclear if bis performs as wells as ice.=C2=A0= >=20 > I assume our primary task is not to document what has been implemented,= but to provide procedures on how to implement things. >=20 > As I said earlier, e.g., many of the trickle ICE procedures are based o= n the 5245bis procedures. If you want to implement trickle based on RFC 5= 245 there are details and procedures that you will have to figure out you= rself, because they are not documented, which means that different implem= entations likely will do things in different ways. Although the trickle *technique* goes back to 2005 and thus predates the publication of RFC 5245 by ~5 years, formally speaking you are correct about alignment of details between draft-ietf-ice-trickle and 5245bis. Peter --EKnQO5mXKLsg69JrwE3qgRSepZM8310J4-- --g7gqvuhwetTRoR0RuxTs2sqSe6emN7MJV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEENVUj07j078lgnb70ZWGMGH9oFKkFAlrzX0kACgkQZWGMGH9o FKlB1w/+KB65cSvZHlCU8psd3Uxfc3s2Yv/2a/IWDcH0YeTQnzcO27/LwFuZY+4+ vAD/F6yQL7TU5SNGAjrEAUKZLZLm6bfX/sYzNmIrXMNzsKN7Ulz0V7zynAS3LxD7 MkFety9aOtjenvVFqgcKsqPhmzS/9LB7pJWiTHQyHGNLhKBmCM9ccMXxgASMHTz8 f29039t9ZzBQIwrhyRI7uct3QpeD45iLi2a8ADlTk7zEj8Dn8Lsc1qAGgOSwvmtn SWKZIqqyInCaSv4elydHu5mS1J0r22BTVTYSaEuPHj6/Khf5XDlaRCDIE/IcKKU9 Nbh0mbxv+uaP8H0oumjk02u94mcwZygP2Oxxizz8Cf6XytGn/XCTCsmnLK2NR7FJ Mu9fawLIuSAQGiFOHLvgSUWtFUp7RIjGfLV+shCMLgEbd3LE7wd9HMkY2kVDIVQ0 POqaUTWqTSb1xAbPQTWO3QshvLdrZtNne4q6qWKFM92gf7ptNaokjoPpQMx0m7wr jQS4thzz1M6tP3iqTRX/IDBVQUkMuTO/YGJQ6HTRbeMeYjVuAB6gdA1ULcpFCtVh A4xBORghtc+JLvNzyezadH1xf21pHqH4Md4UfSpJKamYXI8hlQ1wqDsaS8CaoGXB CXMZbLD7oKenWYkH4Nx31a3Id5GM5NYYwWW7YRxFv5uV+WXFaX0= =kkLN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --g7gqvuhwetTRoR0RuxTs2sqSe6emN7MJV-- From nobody Wed May 9 14:02:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495F912DB72 for ; 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c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1525899748; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=M5z81jTlMRE2sliTBwpNpdRwG4yagcVuxC/Ma/MRs9o=; b=g+pID1CAZ5NOxPF4imMj3mZ8VQ/JVR6xVpktYUAtz3A9i4YUkjFm3AU3MACUXECE /PAvnf1da7/r2G6+cBdgAGG/VkieX9NLXRGH04BWLsP/5BkkDPG33yl1XiYpC/Q7 NSmDqguOLVVqCNH7DT2goeUbBjOqhBbEZgeCwKBtKIE=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-035ff70000005668-5d-5af361e4b0ad Received: from ESESSHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.27]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1F.E2.22120.4E163FA5; Wed, 9 May 2018 23:02:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.34]) by ESESSHC003.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.27]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Wed, 9 May 2018 23:02:27 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Peter Saint-Andre , "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" CC: Ben Campbell , mmusic WG , "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , RTCWeb IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] [Ice] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHT59d+D5H/R27sPUmpE1r4kpPdwqQn4Y9A Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 21:02:26 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD3B9@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <152274059303.13991.7963954297164952826.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8BBC3434-DEA2-437B-AB32-DA113AE085AA@nostrum.com> <7B683890-F38A-4D78-BEAC-02F6F90025D1@ericsson.com> <14DA7FB6-2F60-4106-BC80-8F43CA621740@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72E72F58@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <0610F9B5-3DE5-4580-B2BB-9F70CDA99B26@nostrum.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EAF553@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <8AB44737-5B8B-421C-9A3E-54A8183BCBBD@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72EBD2A6@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.163] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7tO6TxM9RBu/mKVnM7zzNbvFj7XJm i47JbBbfLtRazPgzkdni/M71TBZTlz9msVj7r53d4tnKU4wOnB5Tfm9k9Viy5CeTR9+BLlaP WTufsASwRHHZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlzLm0iKngE3/FrX8TmRsY9/B3MXJySAiYSLx5sIu5i5GL Q0jgCKPElKs3WCCcRYwSK/ceYe1i5OBgE7CQ6P6nDdIgIhAjsfHEWnaQGmaBtUwS37qPs4Ik hAXKJN78Xc8CUi8iUC4xc74cRL2RxNnVa9lAbBYBFYmlGw4ygdi8Ar4Svxfvh9rVwiHx48c5 RpAEp4C9xNWHb1lAbEYBMYnvp9aANTALiEvcejKfCeJqAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OFsJUklk/b wg5yA7OApsT6XfoQrYoSU7ofskPsFZQ4OfMJywRG0VlIps5C6JiFpGMWko4FjCyrGEWLU4uL c9ONjPRSizKTi4vz8/TyUks2MQJj7+CW31Y7GA8+dzzEKMDBqMTD+9T9c5QQa2JZcWXuIUYJ DmYlEd7H8UAh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjNIcLErivE5pFlFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkG Rvn1bvmyC/L8TaI+BTMaLq5ZNMfF9YFZnUzsnMsvXDcVlK12Ohb8V+CLuIO92Ff5Mynuvf+u X94U9cnMS77x4abOyGVuF3LFz3W62ds5/DW2Ofu3XXGN7hLNyNnv49eJzRZIntYfEvX637r5 /W7X3RRezzPq+LLh8Ncdia94psY1Tgr+xW4frsRSnJFoqMVcVJwIANtkU6G5AgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [MMUSIC] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 21:02:32 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+Pj4gUmVnYXJkaW5nIGNvcmUgSUNFLCBJIHN0aWxsIHRoaW5rIHdlIHNoYWxsIHJl cGxhY2UgdGhlIFJGQzUyNDUgDQo+Pj4+IHJlZmVyZW5jZSB3aXRoIGEgcmVmZXJlbmNlIHRvIGRy YWZ0LTUyNDViaXMsIGZvciB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRlY2huaWNhbCByZWFzb25zOg0KPj4+DQo+ Pj4gSSB3b3VsZCB2aWV3IHRoaXMgYXMgYSBodWdlIGNoYW5nZXMgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBuZWVkIHNv bWUgcHJldHR5IA0KPj4+IHNpZ25pZmljYW50IHRlc3RpbmcgYW5kIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gaW4gdGhl IFdHLiBSaWdodCBub3csIGFzIGZhciBhcyBJIGNhbiB0ZWxsIHRoZSBicm93c2VyIGhhdmUgaW1w bGVtZW50ZWQgaWNlIG5vdCBiaXMuDQo+PiANCj4+IFNvLCAidGhlIGJyb3dzZXIiIHN1cHBvcnRz IGUuZy4sIGJvdGggdHlwZXMgb2Ygbm9taW5hdGlvbj8NCj4+IA0KPj4+IEkgd291bGQgbGlrZSBX ZWJSVEMgMS4wIHRvIGJlIHdoYXQgcGVvcGxlIGhhdmUgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQgLSB0aGUgDQo+Pj4g cmVhc29uIGl0IGlzIGljZSBub3QgYmlzIGlzIGl0IGlzIHVuY2xlYXIgaWYgYmlzIHBlcmZvcm1z IGFzIHdlbGxzIGFzIGljZS4NCj4+IA0KPj4gSSBhc3N1bWUgb3VyIHByaW1hcnkgdGFzayBpcyBu b3QgdG8gZG9jdW1lbnQgd2hhdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZCwgYnV0IHRvIHByb3ZpZGUg cHJvY2VkdXJlcyBvbiBob3cgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50IHRoaW5ncy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gQXMgSSBzYWlk IGVhcmxpZXIsIGUuZy4sIG1hbnkgb2YgdGhlIHRyaWNrbGUgSUNFIHByb2NlZHVyZXMgYXJlIGJh c2VkIG9uIHRoZSA1MjQ1YmlzIHByb2NlZHVyZXMuIElmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCAN Cj4+IHRyaWNrbGUgYmFzZWQgb24gUkZDIDUyNDUgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGRldGFpbHMgYW5kIHByb2Nl ZHVyZXMgdGhhdCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgeW91cnNlbGYsIGJlY2F1c2Ug dGhleSBhcmUgbm90IA0KPj4gZG9jdW1lbnRlZCwgd2hpY2ggbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBkaWZmZXJlbnQg aW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIGxpa2VseSB3aWxsIGRvIHRoaW5ncyBpbiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2F5cy4N Cj4NCj4gQWx0aG91Z2ggdGhlIHRyaWNrbGUgKnRlY2huaXF1ZSogZ29lcyBiYWNrIHRvIDIwMDUg YW5kIHRodXMgcHJlZGF0ZXMgdGhlIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIG9mIFJGQyA1MjQ1IGJ5IH41IHllYXJz LCBmb3JtYWxseSBzcGVha2luZyANCj4geW91IGFyZSBjb3JyZWN0IGFib3V0IGFsaWdubWVudCBv ZiBkZXRhaWxzIGJldHdlZW4gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pY2UtdHJpY2tsZSBhbmQgNTI0NWJpcy4NCg0K Q29ycmVjdC4gVGhlIHRlY2huaXF1ZSBpdHNlbGYgZ29lcyB3YXkgYmFjaywgYnV0IHRoZSBzdGFu ZGFyZGl6ZWQgcHJvY2VkdXJlcyAoZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pY2UtdHJpY2tsZSkgZm9yIGltcGxlbWVu dGluZyBpdCBhcmUgYmFzZWQgb24gNTI0NWJpcy4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiAN Cg0K From nobody Tue May 22 09:27:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6B1127863; Tue, 22 May 2018 09:27:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.80.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: ben@nostrum.com, The IESG , ice-chairs@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , draft-ietf-ice-trickle@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, nohlmeier@mozilla.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <152700643410.31210.4665478319589627565.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 09:27:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Protocol Action: 'Trickle ICE: Incremental Provisioning of Candidates for the Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) Protocol' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ice-trickle-21.txt) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 16:27:15 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Trickle ICE: Incremental Provisioning of Candidates for the Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) Protocol' (draft-ietf-ice-trickle-21.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Ben Campbell. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-trickle/ Technical Summary This document describes "Trickle ICE", an extension to the Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) protocol that enables ICE agents to send and receive candidates incrementally rather than exchanging complete lists. With such incremental provisioning, ICE agents can begin connectivity checks while they are still gathering candidates and considerably shorten the time necessary for ICE processing to complete. Working Group Summary Though the number of reviews during Working Group Last Call was low, the document received quite a few reviews over its lifetime. Document Quality The extension is reasonably easy to add to an existing ICE implementation. Several independent implementations are deployed and are interoperable. No formal reviews are needed. The shepherd has no remaining concerns. Personnel The document shepherd is Nils Ohlmeier. The responsible Area Director is Ben Campbell. 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