From nobody Sat Apr 4 16:25:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6050F3A0D40; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 16:25:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ice@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ice@ietf.org Message-ID: <158604273231.27119.12602954304049135843@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2020 16:25:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-pac-04.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2020 23:25:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment WG of the IETF. Title : Interactive Connectivity Establishment Patiently Awaiting Connectivity (ICE PAC) Authors : Christer Holmberg Justin Uberti Filename : draft-ietf-ice-pac-04.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2020-04-04 Abstract: During the process of establishing peer-to-peer connectivity, ICE agents can encounter situations where they have no candidate pairs to check, and, as a result, conclude that ICE processing has failed. However, because additional candidate pairs can be discovered during ICE processing, declaring failure at this point may be premature. This document discusses when these situations can occur and proposes a way to avoid premature failure. This document updates RFC 8445 and RFC XXXX. [RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RFC XXXX with the RFC number of draft-ietf-ice-trickle once it has been published. Please also indicate that this specification updates RFC XXXX.] The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ice-pac-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Apr 11 10:38:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118963A15B4; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:37:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Duke via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Martin Duke Message-ID: <158662667799.28810.14950460192463354540@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:37:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 17:37:58 -0000 Martin Duke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Tue Apr 21 07:29:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8493A0D3C; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:29:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <158747937967.30818.11917169559141666632@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:29:39 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?ice-pac-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:29:41 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for this short and easy to read document. But, I cannot refrain from wondering about this part as the trickle-ice I-D is still in RFC editor queue => easier to fix it in the body of the trickle-ice IMHO (could be wrong): "[RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RFC XXXX with the RFC number of draft-ietf-ice-trickle once it has been published. Please also indicate that this specification updates RFC XXXX.]" I also wonder why section 1 talks about 'race conditions' while the issue is related to a too short default time-out or in the use cases of section 3. (in my mind, 'race conditions' is an unusual sequence of events). Explanations will be welcome (albeit not blocking). -éric From nobody Tue Apr 21 09:40:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58C83A0DEC; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:40:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YNQbM2qUP7cK; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr80088.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E22E03A10AB; 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Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:29:07 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tl?= , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tlJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaWNl?= =?utf-8?Q?-pac-04:_(with_COMMENT)?= Thread-Index: AQHWF+laI4/pE3h93EGf6P2uFHYjPqiD9msA Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:29:07 +0000 Message-ID: <79EF9BAD-FA0C-4019-AF2C-A3A8FFC988A4@ericsson.com> References: <158747937967.30818.11917169559141666632@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158747937967.30818.11917169559141666632@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [188.127.223.154] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 362171c2-4883-4352-9a29-08d7e6111d1c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB4691: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d2V26s2IiXGmC+Iqwv5+/FDvd6lNN944Y5kwHdmRbrA=; b=JFmthxbX70KWvmGa9Cr7N1W1UgInGcoBVQXRlWsPzT/tQAV+CzevNZQjNUU9XDQhzd b7e+C4K5eldCjNQymeBsBesbT+y1FuFVjprYM4/6RchayJ/br4319foUqgK3spxIadHw XfwvXFrv4/uvx25fPKZiY2Q+Dd532tzKE6zYoKxS2XjQGusM4KmPgOYln255zYGiUF5L S8zCvseWIdhp4jZDjpSD96QRH6Y9WnAmU6RlKh0jITwNSSV2rjiD0m1vipkSOljiUd6X O8Lf8DxvvwNHNNsKEVtnlAboRXKf+WOmeCef01XVnLwmy6D2pkaiwP5OcPOa69wXZHVr mVbg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuazUDwaLgvsUmHZG7JAYerxUwUaIQ+loLN5LY8rLGBRvRbQTIs0 aATwcneXmVZQeox1QASfBcWjy1Xz9ooHYyTbM1A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIbL+fP+MEhBXRvxz5rmwHz2GpjlgukJmRYjxhN+Idz0NdhPSuG9g5zKEjpgYUEdZJ9N6SzNThpE19slddBwcE= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ca81:: with SMTP id t1mr3144424ilo.187.1587490513784; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:35:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158747937967.30818.11917169559141666632@ietfa.amsl.com> <79EF9BAD-FA0C-4019-AF2C-A3A8FFC988A4@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <79EF9BAD-FA0C-4019-AF2C-A3A8FFC988A4@ericsson.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:35:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: =?UTF-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tl?= , The IESG , Nils Ohlmeier , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?ice-pac-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:35:32 -0000 > > I also wonder why section 1 talks about 'race conditions' while the issue is > > related to a too short default time-out or in the use cases of section 3. (in > > my mind, 'race conditions' is an unusual sequence of events). For what it's worth, a "race condition" is simply a case where results differ based on the order that things happen (depending upon "who wins the race"). If the results of something are different depending upon factors such as which entity has more latency at the moment, which process got swapped out at the wrong time, or just who happened to get a "better" time-slice just now, we have a race condition. In the case described in the document, if a candidate gets its "name" in while the endpoint is still processing things, that candidate is considered; if it's a little too late, say because of network latency or slower processing somewhere or the like, then it doesn't get considered. That sounds like a race condition to me. 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ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3283A0E2E; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158751017647.30301.357634044784320489@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:02:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:03:02 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I think we may have to be more specific about updates to the RFC 8445 state machine, namely whether we are specifying a new state for a checklist to be in (vs. keeping it somehow in the "Running" state and modifying the procedures for that state) and describing what happens in Section 7.2.5.4 when all candidate pairs in the checklist are Failed or Succeeded but the PAC timer has not expired. In other words, the combination of 8445 and this document need to be consistent about what the ICE state machine is. In contrast, Trickle is pretty clear about which conditions in which sections of [rfc5245bis] are updated and how, but we don't seem to provide the same level of detail. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [I also had Éric's question about the Updates relationship, so thanks for that thread.] Section 4 While the timer is running, the ICE agent MUST NOT set the state of a checklist to Failed, even if the checklist has no pairs left to check. As a result, the ICE agent will not remove any data streams or set the state of the ICE session to Failed as long as the timer is running. This is, IIUC, the crux of the Discuss point -- how does this affect Setion 7.2.5.4 of RFC 8445? When the timer eventually elapses, the ICE agent MUST resume typical ICE processing, including setting any checklists containing only Failed pairs to the Failed state, as usual, and handling any I don't think "containing only Failed pairs" is exactly the criterion used by RFC 8445. One consequence of this behavior is that in cases where ICE should fail, e.g., where both sides provide candidates with unsupported address families, ICE will no longer fail immediately, and only fail when the PAC timer expires. However, because most ICE scenarios require an extended period of time to determine failure, the fact that some specific scenarios no longer fail fast should have minimal application impact, if any. Are there any scenarios that are guaranteed to fail both with and without PAC that could be special-cased to still fail fast? (The example given of "unsupported address families" does not seem like it is one, off the top of my head.) MAY use the PAC timer to do so. As always, the controlling ICE agent retains full discretion, and MAY decide, based on its own criteria, to nominate pairs prior to the timer elapsing. nit(?): I'd consider going with "PAC timer" again here at the end of the sentence. 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\(3445.9.5\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <157929250406.20252.9598473217660353881@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:08:51 -0400 Cc: gen-art@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ice-pac.all@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <157929250406.20252.9598473217660353881@ietfa.amsl.com> To: David Schinazi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ice-pac-03 X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:09:02 -0000 David, thanks for your review. I entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Jan 17, 2020, at 3:21 PM, David Schinazi via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: David Schinazi > Review result: Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-ice-pac-03 > Reviewer: David Schinazi > Review Date: 2020-01-17 > IETF LC End Date: 2020-01-24 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >=20 > Summary: Document is delightfully short and to the point. I found it = clear and well written. >=20 > Major issues: None >=20 > Minor issues: None >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: None >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Apr 22 09:32:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1298B3A0F9F; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <158757315340.16266.10518480272254257387@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:32:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:32:34 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I support Ben Kaduk's position on clarifying the state machine. Thank you for the discussion I saw addressing that issue. Beyond that, editorial nits only: -- Section 3.1. Editorial. Per “It is entirely legal for …”, seems colloquial. Perhaps, “Per RFCXXX, an ICE agent could provide zero candidates of its own” -- Section 5. Typo. s/an backup mechanism/a backup mechanism/ From nobody Wed Apr 22 09:42:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6459B3A1011; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BSqV1RTHKe2z; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD2D33A0F76; 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Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:42:26 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Roman Danyliw , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWGMOkDSg3Yx8+dU6HbDONl0Id06iFisSA Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:42:26 +0000 Message-ID: <906DC21D-1362-4918-9EFD-4C5ABFC802F4@ericsson.com> References: <158757315340.16266.10518480272254257387@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158757315340.16266.10518480272254257387@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [188.127.223.154] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1d11e785-9c44-4f34-b15c-08d7e6dc2399 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB4036: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9B98F7E27C867842AA1EACAB077A5739@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1d11e785-9c44-4f34-b15c-08d7e6dc2399 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2020 16:42:26.0143 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UaMaVZHdf3qa6g0guLzh5KR+1rJ/ANNOC+A5CXG91GRzI97bovUY1ykreRYs0mI7dMW0RxBre3b3NdLx8PZ7UvvSRPDC2BUwGRTMGqJVpEM= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4036 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:42:42 -0000 SGkgUm9tYW4sDQoNClRoYW5rIFlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldyEgUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUu DQoNCiAgICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQogICAgQ09NTUVOVDoNCiAgICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQog ICAgDQogICAgPiBJIHN1cHBvcnQgQmVuIEthZHVrJ3MgcG9zaXRpb24gb24gY2xhcmlmeWluZyB0 aGUgc3RhdGUgbWFjaGluZS4gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3INCiAgICA+IHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIEkg c2F3IGFkZHJlc3NpbmcgdGhhdCBpc3N1ZS4NCiAgICA+ICAgIA0KICAgID4gQmV5b25kIHRoYXQs IGVkaXRvcmlhbCBuaXRzIG9ubHk6DQogICAgPiANCiAgICA+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4xLiBFZGl0 b3JpYWwuICBQZXIg4oCcSXQgaXMgZW50aXJlbHkgbGVnYWwgZm9yIOKApuKAnSwgc2VlbXMgY29s bG9xdWlhbC4NCiAgICA+IFBlcmhhcHMsIOKAnFBlciBSRkNYWFgsIGFuIElDRSBhZ2VudCBjb3Vs ZCBwcm92aWRlIHplcm8gY2FuZGlkYXRlcyBvZiBpdHMgb3du4oCdDQogICAgDQogICAgSSB3aWxs IG1vZGlmeSBhcyBzdWdnZXN0ZWQuDQoNCiAgICA+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24gNS4gIFR5cG8uIHMvYW4g YmFja3VwIG1lY2hhbmlzbS9hIGJhY2t1cCBtZWNoYW5pc20vDQoNCiAgICBXaWxsIGZpeC4NCg0K UmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Wed Apr 22 13:08:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716733A07F4; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:08:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Warren Kumari Message-ID: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:08:39 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:08:40 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Eric (and others) I think making a change to trickle before it becomes an RFC would be as better idea than Update'ing it in this way. I also think it would be really useful for the Abstract to have a sentence saying (in a very high level way *how* this updates RFC8445 e.g: This document updates RFC8445 by requiring that an ICE agent wait a minimum amount of time before declaring ICE failure, even if there are no candidate pairs left". This makes it clear to implementors if/why they need to read this document. 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Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:32:22 +0000 From: Christer Holmberg To: Warren Kumari , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Thread-Topic: Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWGOHVZeRd0CGTxU6RXev1VJn7uqiF24oA Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:32:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9165C0DC-46DB-4A7A-879B-D0D0638E55A3@ericsson.com> References: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [188.127.223.154] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 07575a55-d389-49cd-b761-08d7e704a4f6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB5331: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8DC37650C36DD241B95A40E39CD6539F@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 07575a55-d389-49cd-b761-08d7e704a4f6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2020 21:32:22.8263 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NLOnwxlol0uCYPl1zdxxX6FoAAYjMLvE/aU7hgYP4rLXnib/rXRCCM6WWaP3iCDrFh4t8W2PYP6F803ZbTUTRIUulE00bZAvkI3mn2RFGyQ= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB5331 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:32:30 -0000 SGkgV2FycmVuLA0KDQpUaGFuayBZb3UgZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXchIFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5l Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCiAgICBDT01NRU5UOg0KICAgIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NCiAgICANCiAgICA+IExpa2UgRXJpYyAoYW5kIG90aGVycykgSSB0aGluayBtYWtpbmcgYSBj aGFuZ2UgdG8gdHJpY2tsZSBiZWZvcmUgaXQgYmVjb21lcyBhbg0KICAgID4gUkZDIHdvdWxkIGJl IGFzIGJldHRlciBpZGVhIHRoYW4gVXBkYXRlJ2luZyBpdCBpbiB0aGlzIHdheS4NCiAgICANCiAg ICBJIHByZWZlciB0byBrZWVwIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHdheS4gSW4gYWRkaXRpb24gdG8gdGhlIGZh Y3QgdGhhdCBsb3RzIG9mIHRleHQgd291bGQgYmUgaWRlbnRpY2FsLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIHRv IGRlZmluZSB0aGUgUEFDIHRpbWVyIGluIGJvdGggc3BlY3MsIHdoaWNoIHdvdWxkIGJlIGNvbmZ1 c2luZy4NCg0KICAgID4gSSBhbHNvIHRoaW5rIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHJlYWxseSB1c2VmdWwgZm9y IHRoZSBBYnN0cmFjdCB0byBoYXZlIGEgc2VudGVuY2UNCiAgICA+IHNheWluZyAoaW4gYSB2ZXJ5 IGhpZ2ggbGV2ZWwgd2F5ICpob3cqIHRoaXMgdXBkYXRlcyBSRkM4NDQ1IGUuZzogIFRoaXMgZG9j dW1lbnQNCiAgICA+IHVwZGF0ZXMgUkZDODQ0NSBieSByZXF1aXJpbmcgdGhhdCBhbiBJQ0UgICBh Z2VudCB3YWl0IGEgbWluaW11bSBhbW91bnQgb2YgdGltZQ0KICAgID4gYmVmb3JlIGRlY2xhcmlu ZyBJQ0UgZmFpbHVyZSwgICBldmVuIGlmIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBubyBjYW5kaWRhdGUgcGFpcnMgbGVm dCIuDQogICAgPiBUaGlzIG1ha2VzIGl0IGNsZWFyIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudG9ycyBpZi93aHkgdGhl eSBuZWVkIHRvIHJlYWQgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCg0KICAgIEkgd2lsbCBhZGQgc3VjaCBzdGF0 ZW1lbnQgdG8gdGhlIEFic3RyYWN0Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQogICAgDQog ICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Apr 22 14:44:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837B33A0AE7; 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Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:44:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1587591860; bh=PLrVjVKRQm1lXbzzux7ETYYtf3gy6sgFvSyft1qMs6Q=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=DN2vUdIdrzDRUfI9HAT8LgA0cke9U/UiO4yw+xM/GmwBDPeaLz0P7ijIBL6WJzYNa kHLchJNnCucKZiu68hBCOi+qJNa2IDvkF+DVNBGiT+7bcPKepGms0hEFWCovzgbo8l hz+pc26sBPsUQ6lmzNZ2h59Tzlde3FTeXHywzYic= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 76-218-40-253.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [76.218.40.253] claimed to be [172.17.121.48] To: Warren Kumari , The IESG Cc: nohlmeier@mozilla.com, ice-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org References: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:44:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:44:25 -0000 On 4/22/2020 3:08 PM, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote: > Like Eric (and others) I think making a change to trickle before it becomes an > RFC would be as better idea than Update'ing it in this way. To be clear, trickle has been through AUTH48, and the only reason it isn't RFC 8452 _right now_ is because we decided, back in 2018, to pull it back and make sure it had a number that was consecutive with other, related Cluster 238 documents. If this is causing substantial heartburn, I would propose that the best remedy -- even if only because it highlights how pointlessly bureaucratic this objection is -- would be to ask the RPC to publish the post-AUTH48 trickle document _right now_ with the next available RFC number and then let ice-pac update it. The collateral damage will be that it's not published alongside documents that it really should be; but (IMHO) that's less worrisome than pulling it out of the queue after AUTH48 to do additional surgery on it. /a From nobody Wed Apr 22 15:10:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EE93A0C15 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:10:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGCX3F0FY1vc for ; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 22:10:46 -0000 On 4/22/20 3:44 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > On 4/22/2020 3:08 PM, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote: >> Like Eric (and others) I think making a change to trickle before it >> becomes an >> RFC would be as better idea than Update'ing it in this way. > > > To be clear, trickle has been through AUTH48, and the only reason it > isn't RFC 8452 _right now_ is because we decided, back in 2018, to pull > it back and make sure it had a number that was consecutive with other, > related Cluster 238 documents. > > If this is causing substantial heartburn, I would propose that the best > remedy -- even if only because it highlights how pointlessly > bureaucratic this objection is -- would be to ask the RPC to publish the > post-AUTH48 trickle document _right now_ with the next available RFC > number and then let ice-pac update it. The collateral damage will be > that it's not published alongside documents that it really should be; > but (IMHO) that's less worrisome than pulling it out of the queue after > AUTH48 to do additional surgery on it. With my trickle co-author hat on, I'm +1 on surgery avoidance. :-) Peter From nobody Thu Apr 23 12:38:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285D23A12A7 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id njnPoIqDW87f for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B71F3A129D for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id u10so5724305lfo.8 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xZTFTfOYPlYwr+Ul8pK3ZKbE9WDUIaj/rurITXLskCc=; b=vadJuQxvNpBBMuw46lfnjmQNGEo9iIHeGR7i+AKA4ne5x09urIr18d+7hsOu3gZAMZ t2hQnULotJrXsQhqkCbYVS65MHivL88Sa5VqabLQA3Vgm7BBYMQDVk4mHrqt7+N54cWE s2UrQXUEW5CEcwr62ZKfSI2V+OGN7HsexytQVlLE6Lu3NfNxobDaA/SBgNiNiMWqWY2F Cuv6cTSB0v5hdjchcR+0AUlf91oxbtRkQ46cMLOjbBeHIs8JlmQjw3jNimGYlyrWG7ce SIJ54ZOKubJgg/+hv+nmM2HHl3AqX0ACmH0YmjkWMkGEM8OqN+bDHl53xZQ5B3z+VPm+ dmyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xZTFTfOYPlYwr+Ul8pK3ZKbE9WDUIaj/rurITXLskCc=; b=uU6ZVde2hgSDvJxWAZfGpMZMbZ/bNJgeXRVK721C+CueAf/hipZEXCb8u9TgcEb2XL nmkFXsJV/cuYxSUah6X8emkcB+fiifpdFBiK9GPDK1+cJ6nCSYBsMa3tnJEhLOOFVFmh 3iX2JyYTvo80mJPJBefqQ6LG4v+7C9fEYU3H5y+lWATMqD4GNmgEzQBss/I1fTdYvT6D 9mk9J0BRJlA40RW6sODUsYHGZl/1nDacgoNGUGPDPrjyeQg8+CBQR4nkdq829pFuubHi SnhfwcIkGPe4l/CYzjT8PmVckH8AdtEJYgfkL1RrFMLB/THDvCAU1TpKTU26iTG+myMg k8WA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuajxVaKd7cE7KQ0AbO8UgRQNdGRbTzC29H9NQ3SRIB8kt3pbvAa yJE12fPZP7b17bDuYshH8g1IyQ8+eMLJNEMvdcakQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKDOoVvEPhvUxXWe3rdLIYlROt9vrkUxk0RwhWkD7hJC3lzUvxfpBa7kb4FMLOrfKYRSnTtoWZy2rN5R/Tl8uA= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4426:: with SMTP id w6mr3432671lfl.8.1587670667915; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:37:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158758611860.2438.3742561903738438331@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 15:37:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: Adam Roach Cc: The IESG , nohlmeier@mozilla.com, ice-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:37:53 -0000 On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:44 PM Adam Roach wrote: > > On 4/22/2020 3:08 PM, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote: > > Like Eric (and others) I think making a change to trickle before it becomes an > > RFC would be as better idea than Update'ing it in this way. > > > To be clear, trickle has been through AUTH48, and the only reason it > isn't RFC 8452 _right now_ is because we decided, back in 2018, to pull > it back and make sure it had a number that was consecutive with other, > related Cluster 238 documents. Ooooh ooooh, you mean that if I dig in my heels, we can make C238 take even more time?! "That's a nice cluster of documents you have there... be a shame if anything were to happen to it...." :-P > > If this is causing substantial heartburn, Nah, just seemed a bit silly -- I was unaware of the history; 'm fine leaving it as it is... W > I would propose that the best > remedy -- even if only because it highlights how pointlessly > bureaucratic this objection is -- would be to ask the RPC to publish the > post-AUTH48 trickle document _right now_ with the next available RFC > number and then let ice-pac update it. The collateral damage will be > that it's not published alongside documents that it really should be; > but (IMHO) that's less worrisome than pulling it out of the queue after > AUTH48 to do additional surgery on it. > > /a > -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Thu Apr 23 12:53:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280FF3A12ED; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:53:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.82, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGj6bcEBzQt4; 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Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:20:25 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:20:23 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Message-ID: <20200424022023.GS27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - DISCUSS X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:20:33 -0000 Hi Christer, On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:45:25AM +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi Benjamin, > > > > Thank You for the review! In this reply I will give some initial thoughts on your DISCUSS. I will address your COMMENT issues in another reply. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > I think we may have to be more specific about updates to the RFC 8445 state > > > machine, namely whether we are specifying a new state for a checklist to be > > > in (vs. keeping it somehow in the "Running" state and modifying the > > > procedures for that state) and describing what happens in Section 7.2.5.4 > > > when all candidate pairs in the checklist are Failed or Succeeded but the > > > PAC timer has not expired. In other words, the combination of 8445 and this > > > document need to be consistent about what the ICE state machine is. > > > In contrast, Trickle is pretty clear about which conditions in which > > > sections of [rfc5245bis] are updated and how, but we don't seem to provide > > > the same level of detail. > > > > I don't think we need a new state, but instead stay in the Running state while the PAC timer is still running. > > > > So, I guess we can make it more explicit that we stay in the Running state, as the text currently only say that the state is not set to Failed. > > > > Perhaps something like: > > > > OLD: > > > > "While the timer is running, the ICE agent MUST NOT set the state of a > > checklist to Failed, even if the checklist has no pairs left to > > check. As a result, the ICE agent will not remove any data streams > > or set the state of the ICE session to Failed as long as the timer is > > running." > > > > NEW: > > > > “While the timer is still running, the ICE agent MUST NOT update a checklist state > > from Running to Failed, even if there are no pairs left in the checklist to check. > > As a result, the ICE agent will not remove any data streams or set the state of the > > ICE session to Failed as long as the timer is running. As a result, the ICE agent will > > not remove any data streams or set the state of the ICE session to Failed as long as > > the timer is running." That may well be enough; I don't have the ICE state machine very fresh in my mind right now :) It looks like in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8445#section-6.1.4.2 if we're forced to stay in the Running state by PAC, then we'll hit step 4 and its "abort these steps" behavior ... which would just leave us still Running and waiting for the next timer to expire, right? That seems correct to me. Thanks, Ben From nobody Thu Apr 23 19:26:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4223F3A0DC8; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rbu8gk7sFb-q; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E7343A0DC7; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 03O2PnPh004858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:25:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 19:25:49 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Christer Holmberg Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Message-ID: <20200424022549.GT27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) - COMMENT X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 02:25:58 -0000 On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:16:26PM +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi Benjamin, > > In this reply I will address your COMMENT issues. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > [I also had ric's question about the Updates relationship, so thanks for > > that thread.] > > > > Section 4 > > > > While the timer is running, the ICE agent MUST NOT set the state of a > > checklist to Failed, even if the checklist has no pairs left to > > check. As a result, the ICE agent will not remove any data streams > > or set the state of the ICE session to Failed as long as the timer is > > running. > > > > This is, IIUC, the crux of the Discuss point -- how does this affect Setion > > 7.2.5.4 of RFC 8445? > > Please see my other reply. Section 7.2.5.4 is what the draft modifies. > > --- > > > When the timer eventually elapses, the ICE agent MUST resume typical > > ICE processing, including setting any checklists containing only > > Failed pairs to the Failed state, as usual, and handling any > > > > I don't think "containing only Failed pairs" is exactly the criterion used > > by RFC 8445. > > Correct. > > What about the following suggested text: > > "When the timer eventually elapses, the ICE agent MUST resume typical > ICE processing, including setting the state of a checklist to Failed if there > are no pairs left to check, and handling any consequences as indicated > in [RFC8445], Section 8.1.2. Naturally, if there are no such checklists, > no action is necessary." I don't see any obvious problems with this. (I think when I made this comment I was looking at "For each checklist in the checklist set, if all of the candidate pairs are in either Failed or Succeeded state, and if there is not a valid pair in the valid list for each component of the data stream associated with the checklist, the state of the checklist is set to Failed." from https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8445#section-7.2.5.4 but your new text covers relevant things.) > --- > > > One consequence of this behavior is that in cases where ICE should > > fail, e.g., where both sides provide candidates with unsupported > > address families, ICE will no longer fail immediately, and only fail > > when the PAC timer expires. However, because most ICE scenarios > > require an extended period of time to determine failure, the fact > > that some specific scenarios no longer fail fast should have minimal > > application impact, if any. > > > > Are there any scenarios that are guaranteed to fail both with and without > > PAC that could be special-cased to still fail fast? (The example given of > > "unsupported address families" does not seem like it is one, off the top of > > my head.) > > ICE-PAC does not guarantee success. ICE-PAC only makes an ICE agent wait for additional candidates in cases where it currently would declare Failure, but such additional candidates may of course never come. > > Also, as described in Section 8.1.1 of RFC 8445, and ICE agent can decide to terminate the ICE processing whenever it wants, and it could of course do that before there are valid pairs for all streams - no matter if the PAC timer is used or not. But, ICE-PAC addresses that in the last paragraph of Section 4 (related to your comment below). Thanks for these clarifications. (To be clear, I was just wondering if the "some specific scenarios [that] no longer fail fast" could be optimized by special-casing a specific case that will always fail even with PAC, so as to still fail fast, but I don't think there's anything to do here.) -Ben > --- > > > MAY use the PAC timer to do so. As always, the controlling ICE agent > > retains full discretion, and MAY decide, based on its own criteria, > > to nominate pairs prior to the timer elapsing. > > > > nit(?): I'd consider going with "PAC timer" again here at the end of the > > sentence. > > I can do that. > > --- > > Regards, > > Christer > > From nobody Fri Apr 24 00:17:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D883A0DEC; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:16:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f332a693-1308-4460-ef14-08d7e83e2be9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2020 10:56:41.7552 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: sS3d9gmRLrD9tfZTcea0I65ETyLOZXCh4+c8hsq0FJ1MJ1wqLk4GjvyDCET54Ca1/6b6pq+1sAc4RvaKHQ2Vp8gA+CbrZn2gq9/U6lRL/+U= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4433 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) - the pull request X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:57:07 -0000 SGksDQogICAgDQogICAgVGhlIGNoYW5nZXMgYmFzZWQgb24gV2FycmVuJ3MgSUVTRyByZXZpZXcg Y2FuIGJlIHNlZW4gaW4gdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBwdWxsIHJlcXVlc3QgY29tbWl0Og0KDQpodHRw czovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vaWNlLXdnL2RyYWZ0LWljZS1wYWMvcHVsbC8yMi9jb21taXRzL2FjOWEz ZDUwZDdhNGVmNzk3ZDkyNjU3MzJmNGMyMDA5NWQxM2I5YTgNCg0KKE5vdGU6IFRoZSBjb21taXQg YWxzbyBkb2VzIGEgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGZpeCBiYXNlZCBvbiBSb21hbidzIHJldmlldykNCg0KUmVn YXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiAgICAgICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Apr 24 07:02:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6553A08C9; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:02:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ice@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ice@ietf.org Message-ID: <158773692996.24792.7664368738757658449@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:02:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-pac-05.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:02:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment WG of the IETF. Title : Interactive Connectivity Establishment Patiently Awaiting Connectivity (ICE PAC) Authors : Christer Holmberg Justin Uberti Filename : draft-ietf-ice-pac-05.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2020-04-24 Abstract: During the process of establishing peer-to-peer connectivity, ICE agents can encounter situations where they have no candidate pairs to check, and, as a result, conclude that ICE processing has failed. However, because additional candidate pairs can be discovered during ICE processing, declaring failure at this point may be premature. This document discusses when these situations can occur and updates RFC8445 and RFC XXXX by requiring that an ICE agent wait a minimum amount of time before declaring ICE failure, even if there are no candidate pairs left to check. [RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RFC XXXX with the RFC number of draft-ietf-ice-trickle once it has been published. Please also indicate that this specification updates RFC XXXX.] The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ice-pac-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Apr 24 12:10:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2AC3A0810; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:10:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, ice@ietf.org, Nils Ohlmeier , nohlmeier@mozilla.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158775542190.16628.1177681065283681005@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:10:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:10:22 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ice-pac-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my Discuss point! I trust that the duplicated sentence ("As a result, [...]") can be handled by an RFC Editor Note. 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Kucherawy" CC: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWGmwEEF9mc44o1kaV/deqiDLRcKiI+IEA Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:15:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158775542190.16628.1177681065283681005@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158775542190.16628.1177681065283681005@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=christer.holmberg@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [178.55.150.213] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 69798bb6-adcb-49ae-1bec-08d7e894aaed x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB5650: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-forefront-prvs: 03838E948C x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 69798bb6-adcb-49ae-1bec-08d7e894aaed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2020 21:15:51.5564 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: yID490YWaw7ceC8z7S4N/Dzo8Liyl7bJfdsg3KDASEAQYwrozv0vpAd75L8cnhB8Xj/AR4tEoj67hudiezgi1c//UVUuegmsLwZ9GXQ0X/0= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB5650 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:15:57 -0000 ICAgIA0KICAgIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCiAgICBDT01NRU5UOg0KICAgIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0N CiAgICANCiAgICA+IFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgYWRkcmVzc2luZyBteSBEaXNjdXNzIHBvaW50IQ0KICAg ID4NCiAgICA+IEkgdHJ1c3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgZHVwbGljYXRlZCBzZW50ZW5jZSAoIkFzIGEgcmVz dWx0LCBbLi4uXSIpIGNhbiBiZSBoYW5kbGVkIGJ5IGFuIFJGQyBFZGl0b3IgTm90ZS4NCiAgICAN CiAgICBET0ghDQoNCiAgICBNdXJyYXksIGFyZSB5b3UgYWJsZSB0byBhZGQgYSBub3RlIHRvIHRo ZSBSRkMgRWRpdG9yPyBNb3N0IGxpa2VseSBoZS9zaGUgd2lsbCBkZXRlY3QgdGhlIGR1cGxpY2F0 aW9uLCBidXQganVzdCBpbiBjYXNlIGhlL3NoZSBkb2Vzbid0IGFuZCBJIGZvcmdldCB0byBzYXkg YWJvdXQgaXQuDQoNCiAgICBSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQogICAgQ2hyaXN0ZXINCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAg ICANCg0K From nobody Fri Apr 24 17:52:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B000B3A0BFB for ; 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Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0212FDF4-8C66-48C9-B567-B87F4D34C5DF@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <0212FDF4-8C66-48C9-B567-B87F4D34C5DF@ericsson.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:52:37 -0400 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Adam Roach , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , "nohlmeier@mozilla.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009aaba105a412e62e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT) - the pull request X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 00:52:54 -0000 --0000000000009aaba105a412e62e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Awesome, thank you! W On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:56 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > The changes based on Warren's IESG review can be seen in the following > pull request commit: > > > https://github.com/ice-wg/draft-ice-pac/pull/22/commits/ac9a3d50d7a4ef797d9265732f4c20095d13b9a8 > > (Note: The commit also does a reference fix based on Roman's review) > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf --0000000000009aaba105a412e62e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Awesome, thank you!
W

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 6:56 AM Christer Hol= mberg <christer.holmbe= rg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,<= br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The changes based on Warren's IESG review can be seen in = the following pull request commit:

http= s://github.com/ice-wg/draft-ice-pac/pull/22/commits/ac9a3d50d7a4ef797d92657= 32f4c20095d13b9a8

(Note: The commit also does a reference fix based on Roman's review)
Regards,

Christer




--
I don't think the execution is relev= ant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.
This is like pu= tting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having ch= osen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0---maf
--0000000000009aaba105a412e62e-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 07:16:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F49F3A0B4F; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:15:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ice-chairs@ietf.org, superuser@gmail.com, draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org, nohlmeier@mozilla.com, Nils Ohlmeier , ice@ietf.org, The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <158799694077.26289.3441999750822599604@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:15:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] Protocol Action: 'Interactive Connectivity Establishment Patiently Awaiting Connectivity (ICE PAC)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ice-pac-05.txt) X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:15:41 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Interactive Connectivity Establishment Patiently Awaiting Connectivity (ICE PAC)' (draft-ietf-ice-pac-05.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Murray Kucherawy and Barry Leiba. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ Technical Summary During the process of establishing peer-to-peer connectivity, ICE agents can encounter situations where they have no candidate pairs to check, and, as a result, conclude that ICE processing has failed. However, because additional candidate pairs can be discovered during ICE processing, declaring failure at this point may be premature. This document discusses when these situations can occur and proposes a way to avoid premature failure. This document updates RFC 8445 and [draft-ietf-ice-trickle, which is already in the RFC Editor queue]. Working Group Summary WG consensus appears to be solid. The shepherd writeup also notes: "It appears that there is a general consensus from all participants about the problem and the chosen solution." Document Quality Firefox has already implemented a very similar workaround in its ICE stack. No particular MIB, media type, or other external reviews (other than the already requested directorate ones) appear to be needed. Personnel Nils Ohlmeier is the Document Shepherd. Murray Kucherawy, replacing Adam Roach, is the responsible Area Director. From nobody Mon Apr 27 18:38:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AAD73A08B0; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.217 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.217 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.82, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14_EVJb4UZPM; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-f46.google.com (mail-lf1-f46.google.com [209.85.167.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42C823A0893; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f46.google.com with SMTP id w145so15518314lff.3; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p78TaqaIeFKzuXw5wUVfYsMSHbN5+NyoEoT9nOSECTg=; b=GXXQSlqqfU9JdAxJFgwo8AcOMWPWs6jo22jxRW9iDR7wtEu7PPaH7ohTsBylxTPC7W J5RB8Tq0JlGEnDJbHx/1EJj4i41C5ANV1gQR/gqJDweI0Iome3Gbd8AFxrN28ye5+Lwf V+a5WhFVTjq72BRhHKswM/NXFRVFcsw9Acmp7JzgRXm4BCOlEEmmyfchyjhtSdaSoMlC R0FWIP6YZSEoSe1t4pg39jpX1ZrPf8PW5s7hLCYx450DjYJouttUlZZvVzA2Br7qKAdY HD2O53C9bwUu0DpOfy6emeSEHrCTrPkLmzGOU7HIHAz8WjtIKOmloYhAUNW3CV6POobX k+7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuasSHEgb6imc4cyT5FGjRpDHRh5lfLmMraGsuA/0Ow/N1jwdn8u jqiyPOeKAjpcdxEdAX8aOhxHsz1kKxQ1Tbf7gJ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLS/lkjQlTCA2A0rI3jHVY4NjX5X0w+9NozntTGoKWtiOXMdXbK0o3FgnBd6dnvFa8FbWwPll5O6sMjEO9IKYQ= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4a03:: with SMTP id x3mr17357170lfa.159.1588037907190; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158747937967.30818.11917169559141666632@ietfa.amsl.com> <79EF9BAD-FA0C-4019-AF2C-A3A8FFC988A4@ericsson.com> <1387C0B3-1693-4A8D-83A0-0F93B99A407C@cisco.com> <44A1FCA8-0405-49D2-8589-45D1C9CBFAF4@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <44A1FCA8-0405-49D2-8589-45D1C9CBFAF4@ericsson.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:38:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , "ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , Nils Ohlmeier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000591c2005a44fe398" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ice] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?ice-pac-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:38:32 -0000 --000000000000591c2005a44fe398 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I looked into this a bit more closely and I tend to agree that 'race condition' isn't the ideal term here, because most of the listed situations (3.1, 3.2) are not timing-specific. Here's my simple suggestion: OLD: However, there is an inherent race condition here; if, before learning about any peer-reflexive candidates, an endpoint runs out of candidate pairs to check, either because it ha= s none, or it considers them all to have failed, it will prematurely declare failure and terminate ICE processing. This race condition can occur in many common situations. NEW: However, there is an inherent *problem* here; if, before learning about any peer-reflexive candidates, an endpoint runs out of candidate pairs to check, either because it ha= s none, or it considers them all to have failed, it will prematurely declare failure and terminate ICE processing. This *problem* can occur in many common situations. On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:45 PM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi =C3=89ric, > > Thanks for your comments! Unless Justin says it's not a race condition, > I'll keep it :) > > Regards, > > Christer > > =EF=BB=BFOn 21/04/2020, 22.24, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" wrote: > > Hello Christer, > > Thank you for the explanation about the update of a document still > "blocked" in the RFC editor queue. Up to you and your responsible AD. > > Even after Barry's kind explanations about "race conditions" (in > French "conditions de course" :-) ...), I feel that this does not apply t= o > this document (cfr use case in section 3.1) but I really do not mind. Jus= t > wanted to raise a flag. > > Regards and thank you for your document > > -=C3=A9ric > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christer Holmberg > Date: Tuesday, 21 April 2020 at 18:29 > To: Eric Vyncke , The IESG > Cc: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" , " > ice-chairs@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" = , > Nils Ohlmeier > Subject: Re: =C3=89ric Vyncke's No Objection on draft-ietf-ice-pac-04= : > (with COMMENT) > > Hi =C3=89ric, > > Thank You for the review! Please see inline. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Thank you for this short and easy to read document. > > > > But, I cannot refrain from wondering about this part as the > trickle-ice I-D is > > still in RFC editor queue =3D> easier to fix it in the body= of > the trickle-ice > > IMHO (could be wrong): "[RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RF= C > XXXX with the RFC > > number of draft-ietf-ice-trickle once it has been > published. Please also > > indicate that this specification updates RFC XXXX.]" > > Originally we assumed that trickle-ice was going to be published > before ice-pac. The reason trickle-ice has been on hold in the RFC editor > queue is because it is part of the Cluster 238 collection of drafts, whic= h > all are intended to be published at the same time. > > Having said that, we think it is more clear to fix both RFC 8445 > and trickle-ice in the same place (this draft). Much of the content is > describing the problems, and making the trickle update in trickle-ice wou= ld > mean that we would have to copy/paste most of the text there. > > > I also wonder why section 1 talks about 'race conditions' > while the issue is > > related to a too short default time-out or in the use cases > of section 3. (in > > my mind, 'race conditions' is an unusual sequence of events= ). > > English is not my native language, so I hope Justin can comment o= n > this. > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > --000000000000591c2005a44fe398 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I looked into this a bit more closely and I tend to agree = that 'race condition' isn't the ideal term here, because most o= f the listed situations (3.1, 3.2) are not timing-specific. Here's my s= imple suggestion:

OLD:=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 However, there is an inherent race condition
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 here; if, before learning about any peer-reflexive candidates= , an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 endpoint runs out of candidate pairs to= check, either because it has
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 none, or it co= nsiders them all to have failed, it will prematurely
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 declare failure and terminate ICE processing. This race conditio= n can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 occur in many common situations.
=

NEW:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, the= re is an inherent problem
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 here; if, b= efore learning about any peer-reflexive candidates, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 endpoint runs out of candidate pairs to check, either because it= has
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 none, or it considers them all to have = failed, it will prematurely
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 declare failure = and terminate ICE processing. This problem can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 occur in many common situations.
<= div>


On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:45 PM Ch= rister Holmberg <chris= ter.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi =C3=89ric,

Thanks for your comments! Unless Justin says it's not a race condition,= I'll keep it :)

Regards,

Christer

=EF=BB=BFOn 21/04/2020, 22.24, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com> = wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hello Christer,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you for the explanation about the update of a document = still "blocked" in the RFC editor queue. Up to you and your respo= nsible AD.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Even after Barry's kind explanations about "race con= ditions" (in French "conditions de course" :-) ...), I feel = that this does not apply to this document (cfr use case in section 3.1) but= I really do not mind. Just wanted to raise a flag.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards and thank you for your document

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C3=A9ric

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date: Tuesday, 21 April 2020 at 18:29
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: Eric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cc: "draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ice-pac@ietf.org>, "ice-= chairs@ietf.org" <ice-chairs@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>, Nils Ohlmeier <nohlmeier@mozilla.com&g= t;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: Re: =C3=89ric Vyncke's No Objection on draft-iet= f-ice-pac-04: (with COMMENT)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi =C3=89ric,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank You for the review! Please see inline.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ---------------------------------= -------------------------------------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 COMMENT:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ---------------------------------= -------------------------------------

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thank you for this short and= easy to read document.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > But, I cannot refrain from w= ondering about this part as the trickle-ice I-D is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > still in RFC editor queue = =3D> easier to fix it in the body of the trickle-ice
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > IMHO (could be wrong): "= ;[RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RFC XXXX with the RFC
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > number of draft-ietf-ice-tri= ckle once it has been published.=C2=A0 Please also
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0indicate that th= is specification updates RFC XXXX.]"

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Originally we assumed that trickle-ice was goin= g to be published before ice-pac. The reason trickle-ice has been on hold i= n the RFC editor queue is because it is part of the Cluster 238 collection = of drafts, which all are intended to be published at the same time.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Having said that, we think it is more clear to = fix both RFC 8445 and trickle-ice in the same place (this draft). Much of t= he content is describing the problems, and making the trickle update in tri= ckle-ice would mean that we would have to copy/paste most of the text there= .

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > I also wonder why section 1 = talks about 'race conditions' while the issue is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > related to a too short defau= lt time-out or in the use cases of section 3. (in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > my mind, 'race condition= s' is an unusual sequence of events).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 English is not my native language, so I hope Ju= stin can comment on this.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Christer









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SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fe2yKM05l286 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79D463A1377 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id u12so20850367uau.10 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:20:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/1V6Uu1chYomNb8hS3B4n2QjvxqAsLLnlFzuYsUdl6w=; b=hCeDbVcLSlAvudeFaNgNWSOa0jM+7fJt3cDcIkw0gKuy+ptaY6WMBi/KiWLeuwZRe4 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APiQypKUkV51QpujvuVz/J+mlhLd+xpjcThdU2Th47BrzC4rtNBrhgsSwgsfcIXTk4uN6e0BH+znvWwc3/AurpD0NdQ= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:6893:: with SMTP id t19mr8566020uar.37.1588072850255; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:20:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Sergey Ilinykh Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:20:56 +0300 Message-ID: To: ice@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001df83a05a45806f4" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:03:17 -0700 Subject: [Ice] RFC8445 triggered checks cancelation clarification X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:29:30 -0000 --0000000000001df83a05a45806f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi. There a couple of points to clarify about triggered checks. 1. Since a triggered check can cancel current in-progress transaction it may cause a long loop of cancels and rechecks on both sides. It's a somewhat rare situation but still possible when both sides send triggered checks to each other simulatentously. To avoid this I think triggered checks should not be cancelled by other triggered checks on the same pair. 2. The document states Cancel should wait for a response but avoid handling errors as well as don't do any retransmissions. >From the document it's not clear where a success binding request from a cancelled transaction has to be handled as usually or not. If yes it also remedies 1 quite a bit. Best Regards, Sergey --0000000000001df83a05a45806f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi.

There a couple of points= to clarify about triggered checks.

1. Since a tri= ggered check can cancel current in-progress transaction it may cause a long= loop of cancels and rechecks on both sides.

It= 9;s a somewhat=C2=A0rare situation but still possible when both sides send = triggered checks to each other simulatentously.
To avoid this I t= hink triggered checks should not be cancelled by other triggered=C2=A0check= s on the same pair.

2. The document states Cancel = should wait for a response but avoid handling errors as well as don't d= o any retransmissions.

From the document it's = not clear where a success binding request from a cancelled transaction has = to be handled as usually or not.=C2=A0
If yes it also remedies 1 = quite a bit.


Best Regards,
Sergey
--0000000000001df83a05a45806f4-- From nobody Wed Apr 29 09:19:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ice@ietf.org Delivered-To: ice@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41A73A1399; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:19:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ice@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.128.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ice@ietf.org Message-ID: <158817716844.6830.13436805979940816930@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:19:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Ice] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ice-pac-06.txt X-BeenThere: ice@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Interactive Connectivity Establishment \(ICE\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:19:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interactive Connectivity Establishment WG of the IETF. Title : Interactive Connectivity Establishment Patiently Awaiting Connectivity (ICE PAC) Authors : Christer Holmberg Justin Uberti Filename : draft-ietf-ice-pac-06.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2020-04-29 Abstract: During the process of establishing peer-to-peer connectivity, ICE agents can encounter situations where they have no candidate pairs to check, and, as a result, conclude that ICE processing has failed. However, because additional candidate pairs can be discovered during ICE processing, declaring failure at this point may be premature. This document discusses when these situations can occur and updates RFC8445 and RFC XXXX by requiring that an ICE agent wait a minimum amount of time before declaring ICE failure, even if there are no candidate pairs left to check. [RFC EDITOR NOTE: Please replace RFC XXXX with the RFC number of draft-ietf-ice-trickle once it has been published. Please also indicate that this specification updates RFC XXXX.] The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ice-pac/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ice-pac-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ice-pac-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/