From nobody Thu Feb 2 08:24:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A352312973D for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:24:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rsHuO4Rch-49 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68C76129721 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v12GOVra011284 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:24:32 GMT Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v12GOVdK020581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:24:31 GMT Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v12GOTJJ009827; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:24:30 GMT Received: from [10.0.1.30] (/24.86.208.48) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 08:24:29 -0800 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8C962CDC-2B0F-4410-9755-203D03620176" Message-Id: <16D0A0F6-3C18-4042-B9A8-33CF587ED2D5@oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 08:24:28 -0800 References: <4F47E212-0556-428E-9DDD-7B06C9702AB9@lifelock.com> To: Adam Stiles X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] Archived-At: Cc: ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] Minor Nit in draft-ietf-secevent-token-00 X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 16:24:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8C962CDC-2B0F-4410-9755-203D03620176 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Adding SecEvents WG Adam, Thanks reviewing and catching the typo. I will add the typo correction = on draft 01. Let me know if you find any other concerns. Phil Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Adam Stiles > Subject: Minor Nit in draft-ietf-secevent-token-00 > Date: February 1, 2017 at 11:38:48 AM PST > To: Phil Hunt >=20 > Hi Phil, > =20 > I have not submitted feedback on a WG draft before, so forgive me if = this is the wrong medium for doing so. > =20 > I found a minor word use issue on line 232 of = draft-ietf-secevent-token-00. RFC7519 section 4.1.2 uses the word = principal instead of principle. > =20 > --- draft-ietf-secevent-token-00.edits.txt 2017-02-01 = 11:10:55.000000000 -0800 > +++ draft-ietf-secevent-token-00.txt 2017-01-23 = 12:55:11.000000000 -0800 > @@ -232,7 +232,7 @@ > =20 > Security Subject > A Security Subject is the entity to which a SET refers. A > - Security Subject may be a principal (e.g., Section 4.1.2 > + Security Subject may be a principle (e.g., Section 4.1.2 > [RFC7519]), a web resource, or other thing such as an IP = address > that a SET might reference. > =20 > Best, > =20 > Adam > =20 > Adam Stiles > Sr. Director of Engineering | Enterprise Applications > m: 626 298 0100 | e: Adam.Stiles@LifeLock.com = > LifeLock, Inc. | 100 Pine St, Ste 2500, San Francisco, CA 94111 > =20 > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged = and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the = person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are = hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or = duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not = the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and = destroy all copies of the original message. --Apple-Mail=_8C962CDC-2B0F-4410-9755-203D03620176 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Adding SecEvents WG

Adam,

Thanks reviewing and catching the typo. I will add the typo = correction on draft 01.

Let me know if you find any other concerns.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud = Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







Begin forwarded message:

From: = Adam Stiles <Adam.Stiles@lifelock.com>
Subject: = Minor Nit in = draft-ietf-secevent-token-00
Date: = February 1, 2017 at 11:38:48 AM = PST
To: = Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>

Hi Phil,
 
I have not submitted feedback on a = WG draft before, so forgive me if this is the wrong medium for doing = so.
 
I found a minor word use issue on = line 232 of draft-ietf-secevent-token-00. RFC7519 section 4.1.2 uses the = word principal instead of principle.
 
--- = draft-ietf-secevent-token-00.edits.txt      = 2017-02-01 11:10:55.000000000 -0800
+++ = draft-ietf-secevent-token-00.txt      = 2017-01-23 12:55:11.000000000 -0800
@@ -232,7 +232,7 @@
 
    Security Subject
       A Security Subject is = the entity to which a SET refers.  A
-      Security Subject may be a = principal (e.g., Section 4.1.2
+      Security = Subject may be a principle (e.g., Section 4.1.2
       [RFC7519]), a web = resource, or other thing such as an IP address
       that a SET might = reference.
 
Best,
 
Adam
 
Adam Stiles
Sr. Director of = Engineering | Enterprise Applications
m: 626 298 0100 | e: Adam.Stiles@LifeLock.com
LifeLock, Inc. | = 100 Pine St, Ste 2500, San Francisco, CA 94111
 
The information = contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential = information. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named = above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified = that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this = communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all = copies of the original message.

= --Apple-Mail=_8C962CDC-2B0F-4410-9755-203D03620176-- From nobody Fri Feb 3 10:13:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietf.org Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920DC129496; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:13:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148614559658.4075.15372745058091526483.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 10:13:16 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: secevent-chairs@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, yaronf@gmx.com, id-event@ietf.org Subject: [Id-event] secevent - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 98 X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:13:16 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Yaron Sheffer, a Chair of the secevent working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Security Events Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Yaron Sheffer Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: saag jsonbis httpbis dispatch oauth tokbind tls acme Second Priority: ipsecme sacm ace People who must be present: Yaron Sheffer Kathleen Moriarty Dick Hardt Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please avoid cfrg. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Feb 7 09:34:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542A3129DC8 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:34:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.887, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H1xeuWfMZVNt for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0216F129CCC for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v17HYppG019815 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:34:52 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v17HYpGf029859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:34:51 GMT Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v17HYoiS007584 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:34:51 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.16] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 09:34:50 -0800 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C982BDCA-24E2-4D63-8383-3BBD99EC05A2" Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 09:34:57 -0800 References: <148648866320.3286.5030267890749746181.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ID Events Mailing List Message-Id: <416D651F-224D-498C-9445-47995BD4EE80@oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] Archived-At: Subject: [Id-event] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.txt X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 17:34:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C982BDCA-24E2-4D63-8383-3BBD99EC05A2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I noticed that draft-hunt-idevent-distribution-01 was missing from our = WG page. I=E2=80=99m assuming it is because of the name change to = secevents. I have reposted the distribution draft as per below. No = changes were made other than the rename. My plan is still to break the document apart into distribution via HTTP = and control/management following some further discussion on the list = that confirms we have at least a very rough consensus on the model. Phil Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.txt > Date: February 7, 2017 at 9:31:03 AM PST > To: "Phil Hunt" , "Morteza Ansari" = , "Marius Scurtescu" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-hunt-secevent-distribution > Revision: 00 > Title: SET Token Distribution and Subscription = Management Profile > Document date: 2017-02-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 30 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.t= xt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-secevent-distribution/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > The specification defines how a subscriber to a feed of security > events (SETs) may query for, subscribe and receive SETs from a > security event feed. The specification defines a single mandatory- > to-implement method using HTTP Post to deliver events to registered > subscribers and a registry for new methods. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C982BDCA-24E2-4D63-8383-3BBD99EC05A2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I noticed that draft-hunt-idevent-distribution-01 was = missing from our WG page. I=E2=80=99m assuming it is because of the name = change to secevents.  I have reposted the distribution draft as per = below.  No changes were made other than the rename.

My plan is still to = break the document apart into distribution via HTTP and = control/management following some further discussion on the list that = confirms we have at least a very rough consensus on the model.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud = Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







Begin forwarded message:

From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.txt
Date: = February 7, 2017 at 9:31:03 AM = PST
To: = "Phil Hunt" <phil.hunt@yahoo.com>, "Morteza Ansari" <morteza.ansari@cisco.com>, "Marius Scurtescu" <mscurtescu@google.com>


A new version = of I-D, draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Phil Hunt and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Name: = draft-hunt-secevent-distribution
Revision: 00
Title:= = SET Token Distribution and Subscription Management Profile
Document date: 2017-02-07
Group:= = Individual Submission
Pages: 30
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hunt-secevent-distri= bution-00.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hunt-secevent-distributi= on/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-secevent-distribution-00=


Abstract:
=   The specification defines how a subscriber to a feed of = security
  events (SETs) may query for, = subscribe and receive SETs from a
  security = event feed.  The specification defines a single mandatory-
  to-implement method using HTTP Post to deliver = events to registered
  subscribers and a = registry for new methods.




Please note that it may take a couple of = minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized = version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat


= --Apple-Mail=_C982BDCA-24E2-4D63-8383-3BBD99EC05A2-- From nobody Mon Feb 27 12:24:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4FE12A310 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:24:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wA5FkxsDVAGW for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21BCD12A309 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v1RKO6dJ015888 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:24:07 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1RKO6g8031810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:24:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1RKO5X0020326; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:24:06 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.16] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:24:05 -0800 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_14522348-8760-47C3-943F-7860E25828CB" Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:24:04 -0800 Message-Id: To: ID Events Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] Archived-At: Cc: Adam Dawes , openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net Subject: [Id-event] Proposed terminology changes for the drafts X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:24:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_14522348-8760-47C3-943F-7860E25828CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The RISC working group (who is planning to use the SECEVENTS drafts) had = a recent F2F meeting on Feb 16. They would like to propose some new = terminology, some of which changes the current SET draft terms. At their suggestion, I would like to propose the following terms = (slightly revised from the RISC minutes for general use in SECEVENTS): Explicit Relying Party Relying party to an IDP such that the user account security is reliant = on SSO technology like OAuth, OpenID Connect.=20 Implicit Relying Party Relying party to an IDP through a side channel account recovery process = via email for email identifiers and SMS/Call for phone numbers. [Identity] Authority A service provider where the compromise of an account at that service = will directly open up Relying Parties to attack for the same account. = For Explicit Relying Parties, the Identity Provider is the Identity = Authority. For Implicit Relying Parties, the mailbox provider is the = Identity Authority. For Implicit RPs, determining how to become a RISC = Receiver involves looking at DNS to find a record that indicates if a = mail service is used and then the RP would sign up for a stream with = that provider. Event Receiver A service provider that registers to receive SETs from another provider. = The term is agnostic as to whether the Receiver is the Identity = Authority or implicit/explicit RP though the more common case will be = when the Reciever is a Relying Party. Identity Event receivers are = responsible for registering config info to receive events at any given = transmitter. Event Transmitter A service provider that sends SETs to other providers. The term is = agnostic as to whether the Receiver is the RISC Authority or = implicit/explicit RP though the more common case will be when the = Reciever is a Relying Party. The transmitter is responsible for offering = a way for the Receiver to register to receive events. The Transmitter = should also document Stream configuration information. Event Feed (retain from SET?) A logical family of events that flow between to parties. An Event = Stream usually carries a Feed (not sure if we need this) Event Stream An Event Stream establishes the data plane between the two parties and = only flows in one direction. It also represents the bootstrapping = configuration information that enables the Transmitter to send events to = the Receiver. A service provider may choose to establish multiple = Streams with a Transmitter in order to support decentralization or = tenancy.=20 Event family The set of SETs that can flow over the data plane. Transmitters should = document which SET event types it plans to publish and allow Recievers = to specify exactly which events it wants to receive to enable limit = sharing of data.=20 Subject The subject around which the event occurred. E.g. For most RISC cases = this will be the user, as specified with a public identifier like email = address or phone number.=20 Subscribe/Subscription The action of a Receiver requesting to add a Subject to the Stream. This = forms the control plane for the Stream. The subscription action is = intended largely for Implicit Relying Parties because Explicit Relying = Parties are self-documenting. When a Receiver subscribes to receive = events on a subject the Transmitter can provide a response that = indicates it would also like to subscribe to events from Receiver for = the same user. Notice that in particular the term =E2=80=9Cpublisher=E2=80=9D is = dropped in favour of event transmitter. Subscription no longer refers to = the logical http connection because it is seen as confusing. RISC wants = it to refer to subjects who are typically end users who may consent to = be part of an event stream. =20 ACTION REQUESTED: Please let the group know if there are any objections = or if you would like to make alternative proposals. I would like to have = an informal sense that this is the group consensus before amending the = drafts. Phil Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = --Apple-Mail=_14522348-8760-47C3-943F-7860E25828CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The RISC working group (who is planning to use the SECEVENTS = drafts) had a recent F2F meeting on Feb 16. They would like to propose = some new terminology, some of which changes the current SET draft = terms.

At their = suggestion, I would like to propose the following terms (slightly = revised from the RISC minutes for general use in SECEVENTS):
  • Explicit Relying = Party
    Relying party to an IDP such that the user account = security is reliant on SSO technology like OAuth, OpenID = Connect. 
  • Implicit Relying Party
    Relying party to an IDP through a side channel account = recovery process via email for email identifiers and SMS/Call for phone = numbers.
  • [Identity] Authority
    A service = provider where the compromise of an account at that service will = directly open up Relying Parties to attack for the same account. For = Explicit Relying Parties, the Identity Provider is the Identity = Authority. For Implicit Relying Parties, the mailbox provider is the = Identity Authority. For Implicit RPs, determining how to become a RISC = Receiver involves looking at DNS to find a record that indicates if a = mail service is used and then the RP would sign up for a stream with = that provider.
  • Event Receiver
    A service = provider that registers to receive SETs from another provider. The term = is agnostic as to whether the Receiver is the Identity Authority or = implicit/explicit RP though the more common case will be when the = Reciever is a Relying Party. Identity Event receivers are responsible = for registering config info to receive events at any given = transmitter.
  • Event Transmitter
    A = service provider that sends SETs to other providers. The term is = agnostic as to whether the Receiver is the RISC Authority or = implicit/explicit RP though the more common case will be when the = Reciever is a Relying Party. The transmitter is responsible for = offering a way for the Receiver to register to receive events. The = Transmitter should also document Stream configuration = information.
  • Event Feed (retain from SET?)
    A logical family of events that flow between to parties. =  An Event Stream usually carries a Feed (not sure if we need = this)
  • Event Stream
    An Event Stream = establishes the data plane between the two parties and only flows in one = direction. It also represents the bootstrapping configuration = information that enables the Transmitter to send events to the Receiver. = A service provider may choose to establish multiple Streams with a = Transmitter in order to support decentralization or = tenancy. 
  • Event family
    The set of = SETs that can flow over the data plane. Transmitters should document = which SET event types it plans to publish and allow Recievers to specify = exactly which events it wants to receive to enable limit sharing of = data. 
  • Subject
    The subject around = which the event occurred. E.g. For most RISC cases this will be the = user, as specified with a public identifier like email address or phone = number. 
  • Subscribe/Subscription
    The = action of a Receiver requesting to add a Subject to the Stream. This = forms the control plane for the Stream. The subscription action is = intended largely for Implicit Relying Parties because Explicit Relying = Parties are self-documenting. When a Receiver subscribes to receive = events on a subject the Transmitter can provide a response that = indicates it would also like to subscribe to events from Receiver for = the same user.
Notice that in particular = the term =E2=80=9Cpublisher=E2=80=9D is dropped in favour of event = transmitter. Subscription no longer refers to the logical http = connection because it is seen as confusing. RISC wants it to refer to = subjects who are typically end users who may consent to be part of an = event stream.  

ACTION REQUESTED: Please let the group know if there are any = objections or if you would like to make alternative proposals. I would = like to have an informal sense that this is the group consensus before = amending the drafts.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud = Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







= --Apple-Mail=_14522348-8760-47C3-943F-7860E25828CB-- From nobody Mon Feb 27 13:35:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B9512A347 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:35:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0E_eI8hmeFRf for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44F351293E0 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v1RLZWpS010670 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:35:32 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1RLZWDw001676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:35:32 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1RLZVXn031923; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:35:32 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.16] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:35:31 -0800 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1E770986-7394-47C8-9B3B-6AA358C1B37A" Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 13:35:30 -0800 Message-Id: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> To: ID Events Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] Archived-At: Cc: openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net Subject: [Id-event] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 21:35:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1E770986-7394-47C8-9B3B-6AA358C1B37A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Please confirm if you agree with the following: I had previously promised to break up the distribution draft into = components. I ran into some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) = of events find out if the publisher is having problems delivering = events.=20 After some discussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would = like to propose that I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes = the following: 1. Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint. It is up to the = receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its = own delivery assurance requirements. 2. A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption = methods (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc. 3. A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to = perform an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration and = subscription (stream) status. While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT = require SCIM to be implemented.=20 4. Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through = out-of-scope administrative processes offered by event publishers. 5. In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpause= =E2=80=9D streams automatically unless offered through the = administrative interface of the publisher. If people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that = you implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. = We don=E2=80=99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing = special to do once the metadata for streams is defined. Does this work for everyone? Phil Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = --Apple-Mail=_1E770986-7394-47C8-9B3B-6AA358C1B37A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Please confirm if you agree with the = following:

I had previously = promised to break up the distribution draft into components. I ran into = some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) of events find out if = the publisher is having problems delivering events. 

After some discussion = with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like to propose that I = break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the = following:

1. =  Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint.  It is up = to the receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that = meets its own delivery assurance requirements.
2. =  A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption = methods (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc.
3.  A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber = (receiver) to perform an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration = and subscription (stream) status.  While compatible with SCIM, it = will NOT require SCIM to be implemented. 
4. =  Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through = out-of-scope administrative processes offered by event = publishers.
5.  In the initial profile, = subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpause=E2=80=9D streams = automatically unless offered through the administrative interface of the = publisher.

If = people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that you = implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We = don=E2=80=99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing = special to do once the metadata for streams is defined.

Does this work for = everyone?

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud = Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







= --Apple-Mail=_1E770986-7394-47C8-9B3B-6AA358C1B37A-- From nobody Mon Feb 27 15:58:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DBC129459 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:58:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6EDqUi5P-CNY for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 486F5129457 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v1RNwJj1029672 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:58:19 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1RNwIOh006104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:58:19 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v1RNwGLt020480 for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:58:17 GMT Received: from [192.168.1.16] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:58:16 -0800 From: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_34CB78A1-DCCE-4327-9475-1F57749F34AA" Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:58:15 -0800 To: ID Events Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] Archived-At: Subject: [Id-event] Subscription / Stream Verification - Do we need it? X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:58:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_34CB78A1-DCCE-4327-9475-1F57749F34AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In writing the new transmission draft, one of the features in = draft-hunt-idevent-distribution was the ability for the = publisher/transmitter to send test events which confirm the receiver is = parsing the event successfully. This seems particularly useful when = setting up configurations where encrypted SETs will be used and trying = to figure out if they are working. They can also be used as =E2=80=9Cpings= =E2=80=9D to allow operations centers to confirm the delivery system is = working. It occurs to me that we can make it optional for the publisher, but it = will have to be a MUST implement by any party that receives a verify = event. That said, some profiling specs can simply agree it is not a = necessary event (e.g. in a best effort scenario). However, the way = specs are written it would be hard to specify the conditions under which = parties don=E2=80=99t care if it works well. 8-) Is there any objection to keeping the verify event? We can always pull = it if it turns out it really isn=E2=80=99t needed. Phil Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards @independentid www.independentid.com = phil.hunt@oracle.com = --Apple-Mail=_34CB78A1-DCCE-4327-9475-1F57749F34AA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 In writing the new transmission draft, one of the features = in draft-hunt-idevent-distribution was the ability for the = publisher/transmitter to send test events which confirm the receiver is = parsing the event successfully.  This seems particularly useful = when setting up configurations where encrypted SETs will be used and = trying to figure out if they are working. They can also be used as = =E2=80=9Cpings=E2=80=9D to allow operations centers to confirm the = delivery system is working.

It occurs to me that we can make it optional for the = publisher, but it will have to be a MUST implement by any party that = receives a verify event.  That said, some profiling specs can = simply agree it is not a necessary event (e.g. in a best effort = scenario).  However, the way specs are written it would be hard to = specify the conditions under which parties don=E2=80=99t care if it = works well. 8-)

Is there any objection to keeping the verify event?  We = can always pull it if it turns out it really isn=E2=80=99t = needed.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud = Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







= --Apple-Mail=_34CB78A1-DCCE-4327-9475-1F57749F34AA-- From nobody Tue Feb 28 00:53:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E780A120725 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fI8sllkzxNS9 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x235.google.com (mail-ua0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF89D1289B0 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x235.google.com with SMTP id x24so6144392uab.0 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W+TMqmNFeq/AMNQkycs/Nae5ewfKazhw4uQUWaV03Fo=; b=CPDKMfQ4Z4jlo84UvLiuhjkjrSFfZrrFw60KiSY7pkJgdhdhf49Mrii9cocgP/DT0a tRzyt7HHEShVxie8rpvH37GJPZrlTIcaY2Tmd+ddRrP5M1AmMGSQmhPCjUJaIWaAlAPZ N53rz182J4MYCzzhqXyLQUcQo/ZL0lu1S2EiGOvJki9AlrsrmJAfVFqZTsD/IrTGl3ug cwnSS6L7qxtHlcr0Vvo/1XfW/6xZp55ppvnVYuSLoX4UggM94l15Qfraqw7JU/Zeq8Um hUYleg8uwBf6KikKtGNUQGq5/MpHJuELCkoiC3qKuymceLNybVba+SwNhQds2LY8NskU WKDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W+TMqmNFeq/AMNQkycs/Nae5ewfKazhw4uQUWaV03Fo=; b=hJJA9QMbospM3cjYBxloU25tqntRI6ih6Op8iKBlaj6VjzUJW0PA2cPaSG/Iw5YnrC IGw+E6jPlQzDEGZ5bEVYPoKONgwZytccYtOsSXG5Y/CUKiulmY78fqkHb4+/ktuIaa/o SSWtGvOu3s/Qa6OUQcopRsF5X66M7UlSXTwRrJcdIWukjmGEwOAVlnKXAY5jS7KWcIAv CMinArrmZbgM1t6O881uhBYPC3Zaka+rjblaRFegTbD2bTAUwdowCl9sE4yI2ni8Ss+v JbG7PG/yiOb1hiE51/nGOEqJaNzhDSdCB3UzUtMdbv+NsmsH4sBeIEDJ2m4P1F13t3IA GVGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lTYYPBML2NT5M6I1N1r6lEtEhLatK4GzPEeFlw6Qo0ZpipjtdYbWdFaz6pkE0ZkVh8UcOEnkfo0XDGJiX/ X-Received: by 10.176.66.38 with SMTP id i35mr411477uai.90.1488272024605; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.160.23 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> References: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> From: Adam Dawes Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 00:53:44 -0800 Message-ID: To: Phil Hunt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114fa3b65b9a260549935532 Archived-At: Cc: openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net, ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:53:51 -0000 --001a114fa3b65b9a260549935532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think this is great Phil. Thanks again for the detailed conversation where we were able to arrive at this. On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: > Please confirm if you agree with the following: > > I had previously promised to break up the distribution draft into > components. I ran into some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) = of > events find out if the publisher is having problems delivering events. > > After some discussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like > to propose that I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the > following: > > 1. Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint. It is up to the > receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its > own delivery assurance requirements. > 2. A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption method= s > (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc. > 3. A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to > perform an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration and subscription > (stream) status. While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to > be implemented. > 4. Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope > administrative processes offered by event publishers. > 5. In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpaus= e=E2=80=9D > streams automatically unless offered through the administrative interface > of the publisher. > > If people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that yo= u > implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We > don=E2=80=99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing speci= al to do > once the metadata for streams is defined. > > Does this work for everyone? > > Phil > > Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards > @independentid > www.independentid.com > phil.hunt@oracle.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Id-event mailing list > Id-event@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event > > --=20 Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410 --001a114fa3b65b9a260549935532 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think this is great Phil. Thanks again for the detailed = conversation where we were able to arrive at this.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Phi= l Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
Please confirm if yo= u agree with the following:

I had previously promised t= o break up the distribution draft into components. I ran into some difficul= ty as to how subscribers (receivers) of events find out if the publisher is= having problems delivering events.=C2=A0

After some dis= cussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like to propose that= I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the following:

1.=C2=A0 Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint.= =C2=A0 It is up to the receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availab= ility that meets its own delivery assurance requirements.
2.=C2= =A0 A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption methods = (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc.
3.=C2=A0 A simple= control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to perform an HTTPS = GET to obtain the current configuration and subscription (stream) status.= =C2=A0 While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to be implement= ed.=C2=A0
4.=C2=A0 Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is do= ne through out-of-scope administrative processes offered by event publisher= s.
5.=C2=A0 In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able = to =E2=80=9Cpause=E2=80=9D streams automatically unless offered through the= administrative interface of the publisher.

If peo= ple have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that you implem= ent the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We don=E2=80= =99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing special to do on= ce the metadata for streams is defined.

Does this = work for everyone?

=
Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity C= loud Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
<= a href=3D"http://www.independentid.com" target=3D"_blank">www.independentid= .com
phil.hunt@oracle.com







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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event




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--001a114fa3b65b9a260549935532-- From nobody Tue Feb 28 08:33:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1353129628 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:33:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazon.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrEsuYI7A3JZ for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com (smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com [207.171.190.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 669BD129624 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:32:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amazon.com; i=@amazon.com; q=dns/txt; s=amazon201209; t=1488299579; x=1519835579; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=urwH9eUTtiWNLm+wwTAus0Cl/G8lI+g/4hKW/3l1CIU=; b=oxOFkM1hUBxrQNIzf/zO4mj0b53Ia+hX6gvXnA1oha5f2ZUlEg3nOZTr C1fQjm1piJy0NErgRdJNik1nLxrVwEOfL5+wBHXtOWTai19DR1DJOySXe XKuIRH2XSPtSYTs7WF9w/wBcWhUY17T8HRzdcMMrzc0UO6XhGR/XTcWFD k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.35,220,1484006400"; d="scan'208,217";a="657843217" Received: from sea19-co-svc-lb5-vlan3.sea.amazon.com (HELO email-inbound-relay-60015.pdx1.amazon.com) ([10.47.22.166]) by smtp-border-fw-out-33001.sea14.amazon.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 Feb 2017 16:32:19 +0000 Received: from EX13MTAUWA001.ant.amazon.com (pdx1-ws-svc-p6-lb9-vlan3.pdx.amazon.com [10.236.137.198]) by email-inbound-relay-60015.pdx1.amazon.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v1SGW6eM015727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:32:09 GMT Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) by EX13MTAUWA001.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.118) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:32:08 +0000 Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) by EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:32:08 +0000 Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.160.144]) by EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.160.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:32:08 +0000 From: "Hardt, Dick" To: Adam Dawes , Phil Hunt Thread-Topic: [Openid-specs-risc] [Id-event] Breaking out the distribution draft Thread-Index: AQHSkeA0Z6OS1si/8k+Z6WrQifRM3Q== Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:32:07 +0000 Message-ID: <993F747F-A878-4502-BD4B-378968291C6C@amazon.com> References: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.43.160.25] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_993F747FA8784502BD4B378968291C6Camazoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Archived-At: Cc: "openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net" , ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] [Openid-specs-risc] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." 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RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PjAqtfhS4iwn for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1702129642 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id v1SHC6Ag018499 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:12:06 GMT Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v1SHC5c9014295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:12:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v1SHC4Nt014585; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:12:05 GMT Received: from [10.0.8.164] (/216.232.50.24) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:12:04 -0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5258F4E4-CACF-44D5-9936-B1BDD0F8B7BB Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: "Phil Hunt (IDM)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14D27) In-Reply-To: <993F747F-A878-4502-BD4B-378968291C6C@amazon.com> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:12:03 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> <993F747F-A878-4502-BD4B-378968291C6C@amazon.com> To: "Hardt, Dick" X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] Archived-At: Cc: Adam Dawes , "openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net" , ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] [Openid-specs-risc] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:12:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail-5258F4E4-CACF-44D5-9936-B1BDD0F8B7BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RISC use case is typically bi-directional so events can be used. It also wor= ks better because usually a receiver may add only or drop only depending on i= mplicit or explicit federation.=20 Adam argued for all other update items to be done OOB. =20 That just left error signalling for the receiver to find out why events were= not coming.=20 We left it that scim can be quickly added for those that want full automated= CRUD (oracle does). Buy it would not be required in core.=20 Phil > On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Hardt, Dick wrote: >=20 > Perhaps I am missing it, but I don=E2=80=99t see a mechanism for the recei= ver to add / delete which subjects the receiver is interested in. Is this no= t included, or am I misunderstanding what is below? > =20 > Or is that out of scope? If so, that seems odd as there is a control plane= API in (3) > =20 > /Dick > =20 > =20 > On 2/28/17, 12:53 AM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf o= f Adam Dawes" wrote: > =20 > I think this is great Phil. Thanks again for the detailed conversation whe= re we were able to arrive at this. > =20 > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: > Please confirm if you agree with the following: > =20 > I had previously promised to break up the distribution draft into componen= ts. I ran into some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) of events f= ind out if the publisher is having problems delivering events.=20 > =20 > After some discussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like t= o propose that I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the follow= ing: > =20 > 1. Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint. It is up to the rec= eiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its own de= livery assurance requirements. > 2. A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption methods= (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc. > 3. A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to perf= orm an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration and subscription (strea= m) status. While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to be imple= mented.=20 > 4. Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope a= dministrative processes offered by event publishers. > 5. In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpause= =E2=80=9D streams automatically unless offered through the administrative in= terface of the publisher. > =20 > If people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that you= implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We don= =E2=80=99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing special to d= o once the metadata for streams is defined. > =20 > Does this work for everyone? > =20 > Phil > =20 > Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards > @independentid > www.independentid.com > phil.hunt@oracle.com > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Id-event mailing list > Id-event@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > -- > Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410 > =20 --Apple-Mail-5258F4E4-CACF-44D5-9936-B1BDD0F8B7BB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
RISC use case is typically bi-directio= nal so events can be used. It also works better because usually a receiver m= ay add only or drop only depending on implicit or explicit federation. =

Adam argued for all other update items to be done OOB.  

That just l= eft error signalling for the receiver to find out why events were not coming= . 

We left it that scim can be quickly added for those that want full a= utomated CRUD (oracle does). Buy it would not be required in core. 
=
Phil

On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Hardt, Dick <dick@amazon.com> wrote:

= Perhaps I am missing it, but I don=E2=80=99t see a mechanism for the receive= r to add / delete which subjects the receiver is interested in. Is this not i= ncluded, or am I misunderstanding what is below?

=  

= Or is that out of scope? If so, that seems odd as there is a control plane A= PI in (3)

=  

= /Dick

=  

=  

On 2/28/17, 12:53 AM, some= one claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Adam Dawes" <openid-specs-risc-bounce= s@lists.openid.net on behalf of adawes@google.com> wrote:

 

I think this is great Phil= . Thanks again for the detailed conversation where we were able to arrive at= this.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:= 35 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

Please confirm if you agre= e with the following:

 

I had previously promised t= o break up the distribution draft into components. I ran into some difficult= y as to how subscribers (receivers) of events find out if the publisher is h= aving problems delivering events. 

 

After some discussion with= the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like to propose that I break out a= SET Transmission draft that includes the following:

 

1.  Basic HTTPS POST p= rofile to a specified endpoint.  It is up to the receiver to provide fa= ult tolerance and high-availability that meets its own delivery assurance re= quirements.

2.  A set of metadata= that describes the endpoints, the encryption methods (eg. keys for signing a= nd encrypting JWTs) etc.

3.  A simple control p= lane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to perform an HTTPS GET to obta= in the current configuration and subscription (stream) status.  While c= ompatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to be implemented. 

4.  Configuration of s= ubscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope administrative processes= offered by event publishers.

5.  In the initial pr= ofile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpause=E2=80=9D streams autom= atically unless offered through the administrative interface of the publishe= r.

 

If people have a need for a= utomated management, the basic idea is that you implement the POST and PATCH= methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We don=E2=80=99t need to spend a lo= t of time on it as there is nothing special to do once the metadata for streams is defined.

 

Does this work for everyon= e?

 

Phil

 

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards<= /o:p>

@independentid

phil.hunt@oracle= .com

 

 

 

 

 

 


_______________________________________________
Id-event mailing list
Id-event@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event



 

--

Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410

 

= --Apple-Mail-5258F4E4-CACF-44D5-9936-B1BDD0F8B7BB-- From nobody Tue Feb 28 11:42:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: id-event@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29F5F1296A3 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:42:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazon.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19Abby716QBq for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com (smtp-fw-33001.amazon.com [207.171.190.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BDA31294FD for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:42:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=amazon.com; i=@amazon.com; q=dns/txt; s=amazon201209; t=1488310930; x=1519846930; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=yqZxa2jQ2LnZqy59xJ6ze0AemLSdWDJlNL/Bdr3P8Pw=; b=M55AMj5Wdxr9VMBBxBfyUz6VsNkEl9TkTqYh+0tzEcg9nO+86OWusHPI Vtz9fdhxEhTTTSPUJFxvBIjMyPGk+TJp+wb4PIoKKmTdXFQseg70AXkiY 0JV7zilZ+kyERCQUU7p0ihjEp7ktNo1sKu+Lc0h7dF4AfwpDsCj9j0SwJ g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.35,221,1484006400"; d="scan'208,217";a="657876353" Received: from sea19-co-svc-lb5-vlan3.sea.amazon.com (HELO email-inbound-relay-64017.pdx4.amazon.com) ([10.47.22.166]) by smtp-border-fw-out-33001.sea14.amazon.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 Feb 2017 19:41:12 +0000 Received: from EX13MTAUWA001.ant.amazon.com (pdx1-ws-svc-p6-lb9-vlan2.pdx.amazon.com [10.236.137.194]) by email-inbound-relay-64017.pdx4.amazon.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v1SJewca013026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:40:58 GMT Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) by EX13MTAUWA001.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:40:57 +0000 Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) by EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com (10.43.160.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:40:57 +0000 Received: from EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.160.144]) by EX13D03UWA002.ant.amazon.com ([10.43.160.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:40:57 +0000 From: "Hardt, Dick" To: "Phil Hunt (IDM)" Thread-Topic: [Openid-specs-risc] [Id-event] Breaking out the distribution draft Thread-Index: AQHSkeA0Z6OS1si/8k+Z6WrQifRM3aF+p86A//+jfoA= Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 19:40:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> <993F747F-A878-4502-BD4B-378968291C6C@amazon.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.43.160.142] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1F1C5D181514392B32417E555C99FB4amazoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Archived-At: Cc: Adam Dawes , "openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net" , ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] [Openid-specs-risc] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." 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hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN6PR03MB2801720A24E424C546E99F9BDC290BN6PR03MB2801namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Mar 2017 00:28:34.3259 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0301MB2017 Archived-At: Cc: Anthony Nadalin , "Phil Hunt \(IDM\)" Subject: Re: [Id-event] [Openid-specs-risc] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rs2ukm93alVd for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x22b.google.com (mail-ua0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54FA8120725 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id q7so4286705uaf.2 for ; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:24:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YR+dsSRLQki3PrybI41scrF2J4rXLdukfogA8J+bZY8=; b=ahfaf2lPFtA7fV113i67ek4RyRETV03UHIZ0RYCrX4+xl8bIrZTTxVX1UhGCloAxWS 8QuPGsGuUGbXzsqba1ZEThWeTfFjKP1SaC/1MPwbwL53mcKWI+eb31yno6CZKBgB/U75 E5j/+5r1tojNQ78yn7AkD27Q8YqUg5SzBIZrkf4+KaKW0SJXuntLKV8T3qOmRYcd6LBS 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HTTP; Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:24:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <295F7157-431C-4AEA-8D49-05BABE116EC8@oracle.com> <993F747F-A878-4502-BD4B-378968291C6C@amazon.com> From: Adam Dawes Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:24:52 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Phil Hunt (IDM)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c1813a4d8bc850549a55e25 Archived-At: Cc: "openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net" , "Hardt, Dick" , ID Events Mailing List Subject: Re: [Id-event] [Openid-specs-risc] Breaking out the distribution draft X-BeenThere: id-event@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "A mailing list to discuss the potential solution for a common identity event messaging format and distribution system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2017 06:24:56 -0000 --94eb2c1813a4d8bc850549a55e25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for bringing this up Dick. I think you're worried about, when alice@gmail.com signs up for an account at Amazon, how would Amazon register to get events from Google. I think we can deal with this if Amazon sends a SET token to google with an "account created" event which would then create a registration at google for Amazon to receive events about alice@. I think it is totally reasonable to think of account creation as a notifiable event. And in typical RISC fashion, it is up to the recipient to do what it will with the events. From Google's perspective, we would white list a set of partners where we have contracts to enable implicit registration. I think we should work out some response codes to make it clear to the sender whether the registration succeeded. We didn't talk a lot about this in the F2F but is an idea that I had in my deck and I think it came up in Phil and my conversation last week. Phil, does the above give you any concerns? On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Phil Hunt (IDM) wrote: > RISC use case is typically bi-directional so events can be used. It also > works better because usually a receiver may add only or drop only dependi= ng > on implicit or explicit federation. > > Adam argued for all other update items to be done OOB. > > That just left error signalling for the receiver to find out why events > were not coming. > > We left it that scim can be quickly added for those that want full > automated CRUD (oracle does). Buy it would not be required in core. > > Phil > > On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Hardt, Dick wrote: > > Perhaps I am missing it, but I don=E2=80=99t see a mechanism for the rece= iver to > add / delete which subjects the receiver is interested in. Is this not > included, or am I misunderstanding what is below? > > > > Or is that out of scope? If so, that seems odd as there is a control plan= e > API in (3) > > > > /Dick > > > > > > On 2/28/17, 12:53 AM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf > of Adam Dawes" adawes@google.com> wrote: > > > > I think this is great Phil. Thanks again for the detailed conversation > where we were able to arrive at this. > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: > > Please confirm if you agree with the following: > > > > I had previously promised to break up the distribution draft into > components. I ran into some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) = of > events find out if the publisher is having problems delivering events. > > > > After some discussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like > to propose that I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the > following: > > > > 1. Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint. It is up to the > receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its > own delivery assurance requirements. > > 2. A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption method= s > (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc. > > 3. A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to > perform an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration and subscription > (stream) status. While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to > be implemented. > > 4. Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope > administrative processes offered by event publishers. > > 5. In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpaus= e=E2=80=9D > streams automatically unless offered through the administrative interface > of the publisher. > > > > If people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that yo= u > implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We > don=E2=80=99t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing speci= al to do > once the metadata for streams is defined. > > > > Does this work for everyone? > > > > Phil > > > > Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards > > @independentid > > www.independentid.com > > phil.hunt@oracle.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Id-event mailing list > Id-event@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event > > > > > > -- > > Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410 > <(650)%20214-2410> > > > > --=20 Adam Dawes | Sr. Product Manager | adawes@google.com | +1 650-214-2410 --94eb2c1813a4d8bc850549a55e25 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for bringing this up Dick. I think you're worri= ed about, when alice@gmail.com signs= up for an account at Amazon, how would Amazon register to get events from = Google. I think we can deal with this if Amazon sends a SET token to google= with an "account created" event which would then create a regist= ration at google for Amazon to receive events about alice@.

<= div>I think it is totally reasonable to think of account creation as a noti= fiable event. And in typical RISC fashion, it is up to the recipient to do = what it will with the events. From Google's perspective, we would white= list a set of partners where we have contracts to enable implicit registra= tion. I think we should work out some response codes to make it clear to th= e sender whether the registration succeeded.

We di= dn't talk a lot about this in the F2F but is an idea that I had in my d= eck and I think it came up in Phil and my conversation last week. Phil, doe= s the above give you any concerns?=C2=A0

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Phil Hu= nt (IDM) <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:
RISC use case is typically bi-direct= ional so events can be used. It also works better because usually a receive= r may add only or drop only depending on implicit or explicit federation.= =C2=A0

<= div id=3D"m_8417452791228652780AppleMailSignature">Adam argued for all othe= r update items to be done OOB. =C2=A0

That just left error signalling for the receiver to find out why eve= nts were not coming.=C2=A0

We l= eft it that scim can be quickly added for those that want full automated CR= UD (oracle does). Buy it would not be required in core.=C2=A0

Phil

On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Hardt, Dick <dick@amazon.com> wrote= :

Perhaps I am missing it, but I don=E2=80=99t see a mechanism for the recei= ver to add / delete which subjects the receiver is interested in. Is this n= ot included, or am I misunderstanding what is below?

=C2=A0

Or is that out of scope? If so, that seems odd as there is a control plane= API in (3)

=C2=A0

/Dick

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 2/28/17, 12:53 AM, som= eone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Adam Dawes" &= lt;openid-specs-risc-bounces@lists.openid.net on behalf of adawes@google.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

I think this is great Phi= l. Thanks again for the detailed conversation where we were able to arrive = at this.

=C2=A0

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1= :35 PM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

Please confirm if you agr= ee with the following:

=C2=A0

I had previously promised= to break up the distribution draft into components. I ran into some diffic= ulty as to how subscribers (receivers) of events find out if the publisher = is having problems delivering events.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

After some discussion wit= h the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like to propose that I break ou= t a SET Transmission draft that includes the following:

=C2=A0

1.=C2=A0 Basic HTTPS POST= profile to a specified endpoint.=C2=A0 It is up to the receiver to provide= fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its own delivery assuranc= e requirements.

2.=C2=A0 A set of metadat= a that describes the endpoints, the encryption methods (eg. keys for signin= g and encrypting JWTs) etc.

3.=C2=A0 A simple control= plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to perform an HTTPS GET to o= btain the current configuration and subscription (stream) status.=C2=A0 Whi= le compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to be implemented.=C2=A0

4.=C2=A0 Configuration of= subscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope administrative proces= ses offered by event publishers.

5.=C2=A0 In the initial p= rofile, subscribers will not be able to =E2=80=9Cpause=E2=80=9D streams aut= omatically unless offered through the administrative interface of the publi= sher.

=C2=A0

If people have a need for= automated management, the basic idea is that you implement the POST and PA= TCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We don=E2=80=99t need to spend = a lot of time on it as there is nothing special to do once the metadata for streams is defined.

=C2=A0

Does this work for everyo= ne?

=C2=A0

Phil

=C2=A0

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards<= /u>

@independentid

phil.hunt@orac= le.com

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Id-event mailing list
Id-event@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event



=C2=A0

--

Adam Dawes=C2=A0|=C2=A0Sr. Product Manager=C2=A0|=C2=A0adawes@google.com=C2=A0|=C2=A0+1 = 650-214-2410=

=C2=A0




--
Adam Dawes=C2=A0|=C2=A0Sr. Product Manager=C2= =A0|=C2=A0adawes@google.com=C2=A0|= =C2=A0+1 650-214-2410
--94eb2c1813a4d8bc850549a55e25--