From nobody Sat May 6 11:25:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE71F1293EB; Sat, 6 May 2017 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hehESNNo6YTm; Sat, 6 May 2017 11:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F35E1201F8; Sat, 6 May 2017 11:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DMJ86643; Sat, 06 May 2017 18:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sat, 6 May 2017 19:24:55 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 6 May 2017 11:24:39 -0700 From: Padmadevi Pillay Esnault To: "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "ideas@ietf.org" CC: Padmadevi Pillay Esnault Thread-Topic: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHSw4qu99YNbYnCr0CI5C7iWLlJ9qHhbV0AgADYsLCAAi2hAIAAIpuAgAAxVYCAAR5QAIAAW+iAgAFibmA= Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 18:24:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26DAF12A32C@PALLENE.office.hd> <8f36755fd8c946478d723395754e8746@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> In-Reply-To: <8f36755fd8c946478d723395754e8746@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.138.254] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EC7A99B9A59C1B4695037EEB5036666B025737C4SJCEML702CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090205.590E14F9.009D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.233, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 5a6919ee8cca22f97997f376fc0a24cc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 May 2017 18:25:06 -0000 --_000_EC7A99B9A59C1B4695037EEB5036666B025737C4SJCEML702CHMchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpGWUkgVGhlIHdvcmsgZm9yIGEgY29tbW9uIGNvbnRyb2wgcGxhbmUgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGFj cm9zcyBhbGwgaWRlbnRpZmllci1sb2NhdG9yIHByb3RvY29scyBpcyB1bmRlcndheSBpbiBJREVB Uy4NCkhlcmUgaXMgYSBwb2ludGVyIHRvIHRoZSBQUyBhbmQgaXQgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyB0byBjb21w YW5pb24gZG9jdW1lbnRzIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gMTAgYXMgd2VsbC4NCg0KaWRlYXMtcHJvYmxlbS1z dGF0ZW1lbnQtMDE8aHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXBhZG1hLWlkZWFz LXByb2JsZW0tc3RhdGVtZW50LTAxPg0KDQpJIGFtIGFsc28gY29weWluZyB0aGUgSURFQVMgYWxp YXMuDQoNClRoYW5rcw0KUGFkbWENCg0KRnJvbTogNWdhbmdpcCBbbWFpbHRvOjVnYW5naXAtYm91 bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIERpcmsudm9uLUh1Z29AdGVsZWtvbS5kZQ0KU2Vu dDogRnJpZGF5LCBNYXkgMDUsIDIwMTcgNzoxNCBBTQ0KVG86IE1hcmNvLkxpZWJzY2hAbmVjbGFi 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<340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26DAF12A32C@PALLENE.office.hd> <8f36755fd8c946478d723395754e8746@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <5c50ba3a60224c38ae1db6aab688c7a3@HE101654.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> In-Reply-To: <5c50ba3a60224c38ae1db6aab688c7a3@HE101654.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.139.72] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EC7A99B9A59C1B4695037EEB5036666B0257E30CSJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.591084B6.0063, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.175, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6df381dcfdc2b55d77c7e3a8b7b2e540 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] : [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt 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Wed, 10 May 2017 17:58:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Wed, 10 May 2017 17:58:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:58:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: Behcet Sarikaya , Lorenzo Colitti , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 00:58:09 -0000 On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > + IDEAS > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-padma-ideas-use-cases-00 > > Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be this use case didn't come from you) > > This is being worked out and solution would be put forth soon.. > Okay, I think I see the confusion. In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are associate with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the logical and persistent address of the node ("who")-- this what applications see and what might returned from DNS if an addressed is looked by domain name. The other address is the locator, this expresses where the node is current at ("where"). As a mobile node moves from place to place it's location changes so it's locator changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that uniquely identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send to a node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be sent to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to locator and then packet is forwarded to locator address (by encapsulation, segment routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to virtual to physical address mapping, or home address to mobile address. So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to the application always get the identifier address and that keeps source address persistent. Tom > > -- > Uma C. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM > To: Uma Chunduri > Cc: Behcet Sarikaya ; Lorenzo Colitti ; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de > Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: >> >> >No, the source address does not change, TCP connections don't break. >> >> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area. >> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving area). >> >> >Please see my example I posted previously. Overlay networks (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gateways. >> >A distributed mapping service is run that these nodes share, so the Internet can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts can communicate between themselves. >> >This method is transparent to hosts including UEs and there are no changes need to transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward use of tunneling once an efficient mapping system is in place. >> >> I get that. >> >> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about 5G here and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address change is considered in your solution. >> > In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport layer mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution. > >> -- >> Uma C. >> From nobody Wed May 10 20:07:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFD012EB2E; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IoKp1xeAfRdr; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22e.google.com (mail-pf0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57FA6129C13; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id e193so6857445pfh.0; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:subject:from:to:date:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pr5lO2noj+1M/vTyFRDgZYFlYWrGTPcivOTFiMBB0xs=; b=MvG26I6Ow5Win1FvbMokeqD2VaJwXqlqgWCzxRJ51qlnAvCBAJj2F0/9Ip3WsT/Q4m 607feDTUvbopx9FtxYmCxS69bcPS5LXLKfHD2yEJuPMvFsJpATa8P31l3me9LI4FEK7S L9gygMpHU+cl6HgXlelmme0IGe7loTkIs9Kw65D0m8PqGNDeGfuLFLorUm6Fi+sldw32 kSm+Ekq740aX+MFY7R4eIYwN6Fbnb9coSkpqPd+oZhYrqNXayuZVRpYnjUOuTXpwUX8B qOBO2xJ+iVQeH6mpeiG4ucyiNptrUNiVAyMxDJPLO09xCuxi/yQWV+UW9rb0GbMC9W2g qpnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:to:date:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pr5lO2noj+1M/vTyFRDgZYFlYWrGTPcivOTFiMBB0xs=; b=ctHz4CED1IYNXhWWs4Mk2wBF/q6ASEbA7/XM7yXJgIBJEyZ1mXsLLEHFaA0ea6JaDS C5nTG0BNPitqgVcca08ULSVbEBL6MHOiJCeVKhhkAS2RqOAV2NfhXh4kmEixh9BlsILr W2/oRW3VjGXSpEvRA7j+KRHNqEOvtCXoB8QkFZwq4J2rCodj5CjTiA1se38E+buuKF7U 3d0/DscBqxxkIhgF/kjAznqeVh1m/tiOCfT3npS24do5h6lsGJGPUc6IRVr6sIw2z+fb K8XyCfGYWP5DU1r/CnJO0Kd8VtViirCwBwZjAwm+Hv2zhxfBLPrQocfsKYHI34dDF3It hnhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBEmus6mVPWMO1/6IM4eCR+mCKH1tA6UlGG9b//J5mn6n2ks6zF ld5oVV5ffjSXKg== X-Received: by 10.99.127.26 with SMTP id a26mr9907261pgd.75.1494472039929; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (c-71-198-163-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [71.198.163.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s3sm454952pgn.29.2017.05.10.20.07.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1494472037.2357.312.camel@gmail.com> From: Rex Buddenberg To: Axel.Nennker@telekom.de, padma@huawei.com, 5gangip@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 20:07:17 -0700 In-Reply-To: <5c50ba3a60224c38ae1db6aab688c7a3@HE101654.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <69756203DDDDE64E987BC4F70B71A26DAF12A32C@PALLENE.office.hd> <8f36755fd8c946478d723395754e8746@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <5c50ba3a60224c38ae1db6aab688c7a3@HE101654.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.2 (3.18.5.2-1.fc23) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 03:07:22 -0000 Herewith a suggested substitute for existing section 8.  Rationale below: 8 Security considerations. At the problem statement level of abstraction it's important to identify the issues within scope.  And equally important to identify those outside scope.   5g represents infrastructure at layers 1, 2, and 3 of the ISO model. Each of those layers contains security issues.   But 5G does not include issues at layers 4 and up.  Therefore the security issues here are outside scope:   - authenticity, integrity and confidentiality of content data (aka payload) is outside scope.  These are layer 6 and 7 issues, almost always end-to-end (meaning beyond reach of 5g).     - connection integrity encompasses two issues: identity of the end system that a subscriber is connecting to and reliable delivery of all packets.  The former has been handled, with greater or lesser security with DNS and the connection setup protocols in TCP (as an example of a transport protocol).  Scope (see if I'm reading this right): these requirements and features are not changed and they are outside 5g scope. That said, the volatility of the infrastructure (rapid address changes) makes the problem harder and cascading requirements may emerge.   - layer 3 security concerns include authenticity of infrastructure nodes (is this router bogus or true?).  This is where the VPN language belongs (Tom Herbert's comments from Friday, for example).  These are within scope.   - layer 2 security issues include a host of possibilities.  But frame address integrity is clearly in scope, and suitable for standardization.   - layer 1 security issues are outside scope, largely because they are 1) single vendor issues and 2) volatile technological issues not suitable for standardization. Rationale.  First, security should not be bolted on after we thrash everything else; needs to be built in.  The existing rather boilerplate is not, IMHO, very appropriate to get this started.    Secondly, even before considering requirements, some scoping (or, if it suits you, a sorting model) is necessary to organize things.  In my experience the ISO Reference Model is made to order.    Pick at whether this or that is in scope or out, but we need to thrash that early, like now, before we progress to requirements and from there to proposed solutions. Help? From nobody Wed May 10 20:20:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300CD12950A for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:20:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x7V9uL66P1Y8 for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79F65128BB7 for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 20:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xsmtp12.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.177]) by mx43.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1d8ees-0007iF-8o for ideas@ietf.org; Thu, 11 May 2017 05:20:54 +0200 Received: from internal.xmail04.myhosting.com ([10.5.2.14] helo=xmail04.myhosting.com) by xsmtp12.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1d8eeq-0005SO-Ab for ideas@ietf.org; Wed, 10 May 2017 23:20:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 11615 invoked from network); 11 May 2017 03:20:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.200.68]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[72.235.151.78]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail04.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 11 May 2017 03:20:51 -0000 To: Tom Herbert , Uma Chunduri References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> Cc: "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, Behcet Sarikaya , "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" , Lorenzo Colitti From: Christian Huitema Message-ID: <00dfb61c-c7a8-937c-13c7-49be5eb95016@huitema.net> Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 20:20:49 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.177 X-SpamExperts-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-SpamExperts-Username: 168.144.250.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.23) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIVbU93hg6Kq00BjAzYBqWlVTHAar8Je/lORhy3PZJU8LERWeKKG4PAQY Nyavp7c49L/N1imVzxQGuMdyq1ILpVFTugiLDom8V25hond3K4RsO76XSTAwtV4mg4i2ouCDa4AU hvIWAV5xUW/+gAh4vXqIuuGbTutqzx29YiMrlFybRcOb18WfxGyg6Om6u4YYm0kTIEHsEw9hckUT vZQDFRE5hjoyEb9Oq0NWpyO3vrfYNrJwCbVSZviV1vzVlxiUlT3dKxLhoxcmaInYbR5vlqGudzLe k2TYFBStSOMccbr5Uz0sPgnpAk2KA2vJwMd1uWhCmLzOxTAcQmFWVARhgNqBNFD3an3wiMp49rVr ybSBe34TY+s3lj/RgDQoaICKQ3TFgIfDMShmlQFqCr5hA8xAXSGwpLGc/Znuh3MoIpK0hW7LlxPu vmfFp+vapGvwW7bRF0J+AL6gRRwFcty0/RGJ+cv73CChOPjKA0/DVd83mzKXD5o/Ia+BqyQ7Q0nt IZ2PVtMHd8bHCmdzlxzVIEgwyGTHIAoNFX+jcW7DGmdE6eBVl9/A6GtGi+mfMSANmgQ9/T0zHbtC pLbhgZ6Z/Qhqxiuap5uKiBpffUsHYsfmrbtbs8GJuRKR6hnrta1usy6F/SOWlhnS7qkS/mOkSgD5 8bDUIriOSOQTK7vaz2jBsjp0rjSY76LAIHA6cW4Oa33MXDoedmhl3qqejWLNmYd/R6/ammP7shp5 resthocSxdwDV/LdQk4Dnvnv/o4ZpIN8Tfe43vaXKX/yihCEqxIlRZaHuAWSnHeK3PdSA6Q+2n/k rhIYlNMbfS0wdTtG+y0nBWqy6iuzP6LY3AueKIqKe72V7y3QDXL8JTpxprEN X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine5.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 03:20:58 -0000 On 5/10/2017 5:58 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: > So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the > the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to > the application always get the identifier address and that keeps > source address persistent. And this stable identifier has horrendous privacy issues. Or can have, especially if you were to have a design in which a mobile device has just one such identifier and keeps it all the time. It becomes a beautiful tracking beacon. -- Christian Huitema From nobody Wed May 10 21:17:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4513612EB4B for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kEju8z3zhpso for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C662612EB4A for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id n4so8281879qte.2 for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PDzK5pIshH7sdBRcpnzh1xEOg+9eAbBmvEQ/EJwcY2U=; b=LW/zr+1QczIPlQM3t8tJEUV5PwZxCf5gEcFijhb2464b0zn/m9eMxS31pFwxDomvV0 X/nous9/b4lEXg+RHgFOHc/1tcoo5iuHggwuGkpZ9esmixw2v4x4T50NxRbWjSJMwrZm Bz0uNmsoRXM/6upjY2TPHVUX5NrtEDgGQd2fluJNFhBKubdYk/RCkt32wmSzHgec+siC VbKJ83XifPMB77uADecsXoE9TQrVZgTi4sDJyMUDrHOq1WwFe9MsSki9c3CBwhyF0YZw 6FABu0omD278hCHTbs/QVqyEXKtQDVohY07Tv7WOHoS1G6Q/2YgNijebX1yKUZkvVtSO V0Jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PDzK5pIshH7sdBRcpnzh1xEOg+9eAbBmvEQ/EJwcY2U=; b=WbvU4xdi0bh1c0ZdHgt/kW1IFhoKsMUficA3bAC2vKcgt5nzLTAIMcsqe2v/RTcn8c 2zH6J43Wg9Q4L1DYW8UiCohA3Aox7ERUacQKR3K1XcMzJ5lWu/blpra1io1qmF+lkHBb 1hmST0LqK26ErZXoH18OrLuimG3G9tIC7O7ly4JwjNAwInJr7BHEse4UtzMSmMyB7HLa j2NFps0nqAggJ9GDlBcyiauwWvgaWwg1tdhU0GvxBsVS6gdlGxUfqYZoxtT7iGXq60+2 6SdtLlEkJNGAs1Luwz6c/dljLCMm4w4S3zNQ+HhPikIabMRmIW7YjtbmM4seEaFluITa NpPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCZ6NrvkwG0PZxt//J5hJ986TsWDaMFSskBkMW5Irq7RY/jdeNS oxjbMVTgCkuI6IgHJZ/kvv8n7qU1Hg== X-Received: by 10.200.3.79 with SMTP id w15mr1880599qtg.203.1494476241999; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00dfb61c-c7a8-937c-13c7-49be5eb95016@huitema.net> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <00dfb61c-c7a8-937c-13c7-49be5eb95016@huitema.net> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 21:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christian Huitema Cc: Uma Chunduri , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, Behcet Sarikaya , "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" , Lorenzo Colitti Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 04:17:25 -0000 On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > > > On 5/10/2017 5:58 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: >> So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the >> the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to >> the application always get the identifier address and that keeps >> source address persistent. > And this stable identifier has horrendous privacy issues. Or can have, > especially if you were to have a design in which a mobile device has > just one such identifier and keeps it all the time. It becomes a > beautiful tracking beacon. > Identifiers (anything that is persistent over time that can be tracked) needs to be obfuscated to prevent the tracking. I believe WAVE already has done some good work towards that end. Tom > -- Christian Huitema From nobody Wed May 10 22:36:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09C2129B7D; Wed, 10 May 2017 22:36:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lmVlzQqTOcvN; Wed, 10 May 2017 22:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C552A129A99; Wed, 10 May 2017 22:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DMR77357; Thu, 11 May 2017 05:36:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 11 May 2017 06:36:33 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.175]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 10 May 2017 22:36:27 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Tom Herbert CC: Behcet Sarikaya , Lorenzo Colitti , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHSw4qu99YNbYnCr0CI5C7iWLlJ9qHhbV0AgADYsLCAAi2hAIAHAUMAgAEQjQCAAH8LAIABQSsAgAALrgD//+dr4IAAfJWA//+NVvCAAHkCgP//izdAAA9LpoAADlsYYP//nWYAgAA18vA= Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 05:36:26 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2C81@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.245.186] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2C81SJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.5913F865.0024, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.175, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 5a6919ee8cca22f97997f376fc0a24cc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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([169.254.4.161]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 10 May 2017 22:45:00 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Christian Huitema , Tom Herbert CC: "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, Behcet Sarikaya , "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" , Lorenzo Colitti Thread-Topic: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHSw4qu99YNbYnCr0CI5C7iWLlJ9qHhbV0AgADYsLCAAi2hAIAHAUMAgAEQjQCAAH8LAIABQSsAgAALrgD//+dr4IAAfJWA//+NVvCAAHkCgP//izdAAA9LpoAADlsYYP//nWYAgAAn4oCAAE3YsA== Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 05:45:00 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2CA8@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <00dfb61c-c7a8-937c-13c7-49be5eb95016@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: <00dfb61c-c7a8-937c-13c7-49be5eb95016@huitema.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.245.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.5913FA5F.0075, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.175, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 5a6919ee8cca22f97997f376fc0a24cc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 05:45:07 -0000 >And this stable identifier has horrendous privacy issues. Or can have, es= pecially if you were to have a design in which a mobile=20 >device has just one such identifier and keeps it all the t= ime. It becomes a beautiful tracking beacon. Fully agree and this must be considered as one of the mandatory security as= pect in the solution space (HIP solves this by anonymizing by generating th= e hashes for identifiers) -- Uma C. From nobody Thu May 11 07:38:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50131270AC; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:38:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QvzoUatg630z; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4CBD126579; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id b84so43521425wmh.0; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:31:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=BceeQ77VCylhg+a7uHRg6p/R8ru6n9hDENvD9PY+9QM=; b=bar1Ad7S0kIv5DEJtbsmZn3Iut68rxXDU3JWu8Bbn/oI3RlMyTXfEIM5Lc7+xzthfE bRPPIxRdAOXW9pcgt/oj0PAO6nQHeqhUskR5w00TlepJuDZ6dPZU5kl9oSWDtJmcBNYn 5uO7YJRiYmbsDRg9r40EdxS9Fv4ohCkEz2UVm4HJnAmkortMX2inVx/xGzm23Hs+baMW 9sp1W1JJmcuoAgPL+e0/QJVDpV5+tqLCYGAZLmriL36ZXIoY9orO2lq6/QMVsrjRHVYo uv3ioPgrHQNFEqq+OOMn5FQq4Pe+h4aX/lz1O43RZABHMrwciiTGZmQFUD0+1n4uS9Sk iGnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BceeQ77VCylhg+a7uHRg6p/R8ru6n9hDENvD9PY+9QM=; b=SpwJHME0aFnDXLwjDEsdVADI4or4xWxB9qo+nTeBjBznvUqif0zvWnf5Y9Hv1h/EZU sbkmtcrT78E06TasOUI6k2vz0RBuvEoGbRshlUf8VaZW+++raL+ev2rs6riPbOYZKwFb K/8K74FUoeWJSgyx/gKOcgHgkpL+2NLm4MWZpyirdV2M9MeIXUrAMj6b0DCxsG+2P0WW zHinP/0KO2AXgDk7Ml68LH1eAgI8o16mLQHZyjmU8vR5XaZzJOqaR8ChntL+L0iKxg7Y eaXFDrVr8NkUhpIMWOUdzZAiyZBUIjNCN9+9AhpLMaA1M1BxAY+33KuvfXsZYlt4phGQ +QcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcD68fljRq7g2CF/q+r9kNogKIbKxcy8RnIliRx8vaR+lAA2QpvG avREPZvKTQ7D+X7TdK3d4oSfR2gNaw== X-Received: by 10.28.21.69 with SMTP id 66mr1136388wmv.128.1494513106218; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:31:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.134.125 with HTTP; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 09:31:45 -0500 Message-ID: To: Tom Herbert Cc: Uma Chunduri , Lorenzo Colitti , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11471158cefe2c054f407226" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:38:45 -0000 --001a11471158cefe2c054f407226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri > wrote: > > + IDEAS > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-padma-ideas-use-cases-00 > > > > Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be this > use case didn't come from you) > > > > This is being worked out and solution would be put forth soon.. > > > Okay, I think I see the confusion. > > In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are > associate with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the > logical and persistent address of the node ("who")-- this what > applications see and what might returned from DNS if an addressed is > looked by domain name. The other address is the locator, this > expresses where the node is current at ("where"). As a mobile node > moves from place to place it's location changes so it's locator > changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that uniquely > identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send to a > node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone > needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be > sent to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to > locator and then packet is forwarded to locator address (by > encapsulation, segment routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to > virtual to physical address mapping, or home address to mobile > address. > > So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the > the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to > the application always get the identifier address and that keeps > source address persistent. > > Folks, these are Tom's personal thinking. Those that are not mentioned in the PS draft are not in scope. Behcet > Tom > > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM > > To: Uma Chunduri > > Cc: Behcet Sarikaya ; Lorenzo Colitti < > lorenzo@google.com>; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de > > Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt > > > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri > wrote: > >> > >> >No, the source address does not change, TCP connections don't > break. > >> > >> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area. > >> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving area). > >> > >> >Please see my example I posted previously. Overlay networks > (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gateways. > >> >A distributed mapping service is run that these nodes > share, so the Internet can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts > can communicate between themselves. > >> >This method is transparent to hosts including UEs and > there are no changes need to transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward > use of tunneling once an efficient mapping system is in place. > >> > >> I get that. > >> > >> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about 5G > here and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address change > is considered in your solution. > >> > > In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport layer > mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution. > > > >> -- > >> Uma C. > >> > --001a11471158cefe2c054f407226 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote:
On W= ed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com> wrote:
> + IDEAS
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-padma-ideas-use-cases-00
>
> Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be th= is use case didn't come from you)
>
> This is being worked out=C2=A0 and solution would be put forth soon..<= br> >
Okay, I think I see the confusion.

In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are
associate with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the
logical and persistent address of the node ("who")-- this what applications see and what might returned from DNS if an addressed is
looked by domain name. The other address is the locator, this
expresses where the node is current at ("where"). As a mobile nod= e
moves from place to place it's location changes so it's locator
changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that uniquely identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send to a<= br> node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone
needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be
sent to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to
locator and then packet is forwarded to locator address (by
encapsulation, segment routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to
virtual to physical address mapping, or home address to mobile
address.

So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the
the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to
the application always get the identifier address and that keeps
source address persistent.


Folks, these are Tom's personal thinking. Those = that are not mentioned in the PS draft are not in scope.

Behcet=C2=A0
Tom

>
> --
> Uma C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@h= erbertland.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM
> To: Uma Chunduri <uma.ch= unduri@huawei.com>
> Cc: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@= ieee.org>; Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>; 5gangip@ie= tf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telek= om.de
> Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip= -ps-00.txt
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com> wrote:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>No, the source address does n= ot change, TCP connections don't break.
>>
>> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area.
>> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving = area).
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>Please see my example I poste= d previously. Overlay networks (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gatew= ays.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>A= distributed mapping service is run that these nodes share, so the Internet= can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts can communicate between= themselves.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >This me= thod is transparent to hosts including UEs and there are no changes need to= transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward use of tunneling once a= n efficient mapping system is in place.
>>
>> I get that.
>>
>> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about = 5G here and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address chan= ge is considered in your solution.
>>
> In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport laye= r mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution.
>
>> --
>> Uma C.
>>

--001a11471158cefe2c054f407226-- From nobody Thu May 11 12:12:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C971E12E855; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jdb4j4wO6aR5; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9353129442; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id m123so46939784wma.0; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:04:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=2ExgvpfeFMbdBDmJXX2w4TKH56uZJeR6I8D4sjUw2TE=; b=EL4GYsEanBbda81R+mHYRcuWFrSXYRUu2ygCUCoQR/y+gU4iuBLWxwysPWrbvFjSlE mzzOEZrxpZYzsd1vLrauOOzs2gyhLSIQSpMmVI+P8ghiqGp+S/EGxr54U5vU2Gr/R75c 9bfohNpWRdzmpYRFO8IxS/m9E49MyS0DgvorA0VZuHlypdvQh2GDnvEQ7Qb1lR5ttdVR yxZcEihvClfdh7ImipeMGK+tuyMsDxK5jmUtO91yFqmYIbfBaqk1SfHh0/dBuzcEV63M 4tU3AX9QdGlbgilP5h5GtbtaP3uJF/BQfvpsEIcvLCZi/6gDW0K2/+Zw3wLbdPJYMRPC KEbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2ExgvpfeFMbdBDmJXX2w4TKH56uZJeR6I8D4sjUw2TE=; b=ECErosMWsnmjgq7GV7fVTWhyNOUqGtLmKF5uIkM9TOZfE6XQJlDoFyqir2lQTi/PBt hMDOjiPo91A27rhgKgebIcSZ2iCM3g75c/PElB4rZawrbcgSl/EXkTGyw8OSL0RUCUIm cOFAItYNH3FubhoXoPGJMn7cQxet34sbBsUcw+MhQOzWcY8rCwJd2STa4DQjIHJapIXZ 7DMdCz+dcUgKgn5Lsdz45PeOg6Uo6LcdNys/lFOOrja5JggXWYQ+UekmMMdl4D4v95o/ LTxw5+8PjkOhEbtnjkQvlJ0cmZq6tVANnJQgu9G5kX7kBGr9lr/FMpnbp5VtR0+mWNJA GR5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBcgv9xUUzzQojzLLMRmTB73iyjqjVavq8jhPh7EnSz126x+nAJ 7PoU45J7om8LchtxVd4NTIZcFTguAA== X-Received: by 10.28.141.140 with SMTP id p134mr195728wmd.54.1494529464249; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:04:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.134.125 with HTTP; Thu, 11 May 2017 12:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:04:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: "sarikaya@ieee.org" Cc: Tom Herbert , Uma Chunduri , Lorenzo Colitti , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146a0b0d2b0e2054f444177" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 19:12:39 -0000 --001a1146a0b0d2b0e2054f444177 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Tom Herbert wrote: > >> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri >> wrote: >> > + IDEAS >> > >> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-padma-ideas-use-cases-00 >> > >> > Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be >> this use case didn't come from you) >> > >> > This is being worked out and solution would be put forth soon.. >> > >> Okay, I think I see the confusion. >> >> In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are >> associate with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the >> logical and persistent address of the node ("who")-- this what >> applications see and what might returned from DNS if an addressed is >> looked by domain name. The other address is the locator, this >> expresses where the node is current at ("where"). As a mobile node >> moves from place to place it's location changes so it's locator >> changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that uniquely >> identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send to a >> node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone >> needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be >> sent to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to >> locator and then packet is forwarded to locator address (by >> encapsulation, segment routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to >> virtual to physical address mapping, or home address to mobile >> address. >> >> So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the >> the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to >> the application always get the identifier address and that keeps >> source address persistent. >> >> > Folks, these are Tom's personal thinking. Those that are not mentioned in > the PS draft are not in scope. > > Let me clarify. I apologize if I offended anybody. No offense folks. We are not in the business of policing people. In our list mails are written freely and people write whatever they think, i.e. it is an IETF list. Regards, Behcet > Behcet > >> Tom >> >> > >> > -- >> > Uma C. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM >> > To: Uma Chunduri >> > Cc: Behcet Sarikaya ; Lorenzo Colitti < >> lorenzo@google.com>; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de >> > Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for >> draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt >> > >> > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >No, the source address does not change, TCP connections don't >> break. >> >> >> >> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area. >> >> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving >> area). >> >> >> >> >Please see my example I posted previously. Overlay networks >> (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gateways. >> >> >A distributed mapping service is run that these nodes >> share, so the Internet can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts >> can communicate between themselves. >> >> >This method is transparent to hosts including UEs and >> there are no changes need to transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward >> use of tunneling once an efficient mapping system is in place. >> >> >> >> I get that. >> >> >> >> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about 5G >> here and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address change >> is considered in your solution. >> >> >> > In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport layer >> mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution. >> > >> >> -- >> >> Uma C. >> >> >> > > --001a1146a0b0d2b0e2054f444177 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Behcet Sarikaya <= sarikaya2012@gm= ail.com> wrote:


On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:58 PM, Tom Herbert <tom@herber= tland.com> wrote:
On= Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com> wrote: > + IDEAS
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-padma-ideas-use-cases-00
>
> Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be th= is use case didn't come from you)
>
> This is being worked out=C2=A0 and solution would be put forth soon..<= br> >
Okay, I think I see the confusion.

In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are
associate with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the
logical and persistent address of the node ("who")-- this what applications see and what might returned from DNS if an addressed is
looked by domain name. The other address is the locator, this
expresses where the node is current at ("where"). As a mobile nod= e
moves from place to place it's location changes so it's locator
changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that uniquely identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send to a<= br> node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone
needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be
sent to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to
locator and then packet is forwarded to locator address (by
encapsulation, segment routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to
virtual to physical address mapping, or home address to mobile
address.

So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the
the identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to
the application always get the identifier address and that keeps
source address persistent.


Folks, these are To= m's personal thinking. Those that are not mentioned in the PS draft are= not in scope.

Let me clarify. I apologize if I offended anybody. No offense f= olks.
We are not in the business of policing people.
In= our list mails are written freely and people write whatever they think, i.= e. it is an IETF list.

Regards,

Behcet=C2=A0
=
Behcet=C2=A0
Tom

>
> --
> Uma C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM
> To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com>
> Cc: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>; Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@teleko= m.de
> Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip= -ps-00.txt
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com> wr= ote:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>No, the source address does n= ot change, TCP connections don't break.
>>
>> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area.
>> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving = area).
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>Please see my example I poste= d previously. Overlay networks (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gatew= ays.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>A= distributed mapping service is run that these nodes share, so the Internet= can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts can communicate between= themselves.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >This me= thod is transparent to hosts including UEs and there are no changes need to= transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward use of tunneling once a= n efficient mapping system is in place.
>>
>> I get that.
>>
>> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about = 5G here and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address chan= ge is considered in your solution.
>>
> In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport laye= r mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution.
>
>> --
>> Uma C.
>>


--001a1146a0b0d2b0e2054f444177-- From nobody Thu May 11 16:17:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62746129C1C for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7L7Ck7F9fcMq for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x229.google.com (mail-qk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB79912EADE for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id a72so35370441qkj.2 for ; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6/vxutteDRGfJUZLBTZsd02SxiI8q4mDk7S4NHGX6/w=; b=1YAM5BoPgNUNEuPhAzlHKBdzWSHgsVtCifyreCOedGfTeL7JNbrX4+Z9ar24XbD3fG 6zX+T/RxPts1cvced0esOAgcrVygxu8KZ7T4j0/Ey577WxdJWh67NOe8BDCXdOb+ret6 rhJQyYEeujWKLPRMwvqCA1WNsnukpuXvuGoanBL77UxuO4ZY0LxGCIy1VgFdE5BNjP2O tXrqtS6e9hT5cnXFs4CVy1AVGFfxfleMW0xbdhCbwNww1jZU0dyc4pb8yiIRAPFH1ksi 3fWFxlT5eWsdnC7zgkIvj8l3pCG125D9BqyCWr4EqjB+Akn75Xcm20L053LZI0QBeySf AUCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6/vxutteDRGfJUZLBTZsd02SxiI8q4mDk7S4NHGX6/w=; b=sU3vCf+0zPIKNuegJawD99xy1xZNCi/fI7MnHHS5ke9+vBDIPo7Zes/Dt/b2SHO2KN UFnIti6FuDrv7LeF1suPY2CDG/oTkpMTYW+FGcdkBJhV0+zkgvqK5Mi95U4iWqqryfg7 aKN5RPl9HUj6u1rHGzIQBsI0Zv5FUnQ2OHYOrntJk0uRciyoTm80AIlGkRX3D3++wcK5 c3YQ//QFUntqaC7V3CWrMwpTg9WN2Cugqz1BKgmlAKHviz3wsS/bhhxTdW8X3YGHh3jl SBKZLqNMnXFPYlEqe6f2KMqHwBIMubB+0eMtVTdFiVu1zFhE0TsRI0Z7LMZNwYCpYVfv wxPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAaGX4gkK07s0RGyg0zwUmqUUBNjz6mqfjS01nU303EguoigCL+ DsgrEFTkbrgbOtF/giyUN5dwbH4ikg== X-Received: by 10.55.154.143 with SMTP id c137mr963390qke.177.1494544362017; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:12:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2C81@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <149376035152.21552.16267155218438524059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <340a9b7fbfe5408bbc2f6d56e839009f@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A27B7@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2ACC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2AF3@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B11@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2B5D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018A2C81@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:12:40 -0700 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: Behcet Sarikaya , Lorenzo Colitti , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 23:17:28 -0000 On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > In-line [Uma]: > > -- > Uma C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:58 PM > To: Uma Chunduri > Cc: Behcet Sarikaya ; Lorenzo Colitti > ; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de; > ideas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Uma Chunduri > wrote: >> + IDEAS >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-padma-ideas-use-cases-00 >> >> Section 7 covers this use case - I saw you are part of this (may be >> this use case didn't come from you) >> >> This is being worked out and solution would be put forth soon.. >> > Okay, I think I see the confusion. > > [Uma]: I don't see any confusion. > I was just saying the solution you described here > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/5gangip/current/msg00488.html > doesn't solve IP address change case (UPF change) but only > addresses (R)AN mobility. > > In an Identifier/Locator split there are two addresses that are associate > with a node. One is the identifier that expresses the logical and persistent > address of the node ("who")-- this what applications see and what might > returned from DNS if an addressed is looked by domain name. The other > address is the locator, this expresses where the node is current at > ("where"). As a mobile node moves from place to place it's location changes > so it's locator changes. But, it's identifier address does not change-- that > uniquely identifies the node regardless of where it's at. In order to send > to a node (by it's identifier address, a some point in the path, someone > needs to know to that to reach the addressed node the packet has to be sent > to its locator address. So there is a mapping from identifier to locator and > then packet is forwarded to locator address (by encapsulation, segment > routing, ILA, etc.). This really equivalent to virtual to physical address > mapping, or home address to mobile address. > So it's really the locator address for a node that changes, not the the > identifier. The system needs to ensure that packets delivered to the > application always get the identifier address and that keeps source address > persistent. > > [Uma]: Precisely and I don't see how you get that stable identifier in ILA > where you split Identity and Locator (ILA) logically in the same UE address > where your host on the other end is communicating to (in your example > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/5gangip/current/msg00488.html ) > The procedures are described in the ILA draft also (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-herbert-nvo3-ila). For instance Scenario 7 shows Internet host to tenant system. > > Tom > >> >> -- >> Uma C. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:00 PM >> To: Uma Chunduri >> Cc: Behcet Sarikaya ; Lorenzo Colitti >> ; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de >> Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for >> draft-xyx-5gip-ps-00.txt >> >> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Uma Chunduri >> wrote: >>> >>> >No, the source address does not change, TCP connections don't >>> break. >>> >>> Source address can change if UE moves from UPF serving area. >>> But, now I see your case is (R)AN mobility case (same UPF serving area). >>> >>> >Please see my example I posted previously. Overlay networks >>> (tunnels) are used between EnodeBs and gateways. >>> >A distributed mapping service is run that these nodes >>> share, so the Internet can communicate with mobile hosts and mobile hosts >>> can communicate between themselves. >>> >This method is transparent to hosts including UEs and >>> there are no changes need to transport layer. It's a fairly straightforward >>> use of tunneling once an efficient mapping system is in place. >>> >>> I get that. >>> >>> Then this is may be good for 4G, but I guess we are talking about 5G here >>> and I assumes PGW/UPF mobility and hence the Source IP address change is >>> considered in your solution. >>> >> In that case the TCP connection would break regardless. Transport layer >> mobility, like QUIC, might then be solution. >> >>> -- >>> Uma C. >>> > From nobody Sat May 13 17:04:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FF9127A91 for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5GAMK519chFc for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F087126CBF for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id b84so48275057wmh.0 for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oH+HqW9eClDY25fhh69cKzERoYHn+g9ewvmIw7O7I5M=; b=KPiaWi49XCAFLh36u0Rx5gxvR+OW9VQFS+1vrP97AqFJSDLAKHMaI1SE6weBWqK6Ur fPFwe/ahhKhdZBBGuG7PMuem5de32yZhVcMEb+FejHruTDq5htb8wIPYw2+02DgLq9Th A1rpZnm8S98DKiRx7/2+DAFI//d+1godwV0kVeO0T3ekG5tpnVSI7g7kocRsxJ6zL/O2 lI7EzPWJyXAtbPQOJpbMdL5FWRfM2LhhNp9JxTm0i6yzfgC6FRghwZ5hslEV+DuqFVUD 4JstFrEXSDwCNlqmCrEUzAK3eVpN1ZHSPpM79nEoGekuKJuh+PGerjNgHRt8xIF46oq4 P1sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oH+HqW9eClDY25fhh69cKzERoYHn+g9ewvmIw7O7I5M=; b=Zn1oP3ARuQngohzS/5q1JdWrzHPv7G/IzGWETdQH559jBev/8xdBV042X63mcLke3P 3Se1gh+i3stlNmJb8YQVwaKsUrKPPUp7o85/C/M0EdIMzgi3WIb6TfkaiwC8zQwlnNvw BC5qTBA0krEj19QA0JcCG7mNKjG+4eVmTHzQNTrJPHFrfg4AJ3GmBXreVqzzarqf/RzB XVCmi/MTV7ziot4R5FwGWiQBBo8gwcduvO17kxUv3iDUKF2igWO0kygl1tAlSQqiCvJr BG5LdrDBsD7UFBaZ8vnnjyWkXhRdfYAAtkXm+VsQcyW1p8DyuEN+tnUnAN6H7wwgmznc 1LHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBG3d6vrN7TsoF8U0T27qaBc97D7i1DBv8TJEuki5bk+t1zZxmT 3AQWlvgT1TgXo/EC1sw0HIjnr3Hr06Co X-Received: by 10.28.175.136 with SMTP id y130mr4977184wme.112.1494720132712; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145de048c9075054f70a649" Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 00:04:29 -0000 --001a1145de048c9075054f70a649 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello IDEAS The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list for organizing the BOF. The problem statement version -001 advocates for a standardized, secured common control plane with data integrity. See below pointer and for companion docs see section 7. IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01 Brief recap of main points 1. Key problems due to lack of a common control plane Infrastructure a. An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it is inefficient to deploy several specialized mapping/resolution network databases within the same administrative domain. b. Difficulty to have an overall view of the network. If multiple ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are deployed, troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may be located in different places. c. Complex Management due to disjoint information spread over several mapping systems. Operations such as merging networks are error prone and more challenging to detect and fix. d. Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be needed to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering structures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc. e. Risk for fragmented connectivity. A high diversity of mapping system variants will create silos of communications. f. Complex cross-MS communications. A common resolution system infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications. Today it is difficult to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping systems with distinct interfaces. 2. Security of the infrastructure Vulnerability and how to address it 3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure Access to the mapping system must be secured in order to address privacy data integrity. Your comments and suggestions welcome --001a1145de048c9075054f70a649 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello IDEAS

The deadline for a request = for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 which is a few weeks away. We wou= ld like to have input from the list for organizing the BOF.

<= /div>
The problem statement version -001 advocates for=C2=A0a standardized, secured common control plane with d= ata integrity. See below=C2=A0pointer and for companion docs see=C2=A0section 7.


Brief re= cap of main points=C2=A0

1. Key problems due to lack of = a=C2=A0common control plane Infrastructure

a.=C2=A0 An impediment fo= r the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it is=C2=A0inefficient to deplo= y several specialized=C2=A0mapping/resolution network databases within the = same=C2=A0administrative domain. =C2=A0

b.=C2=A0 Difficulty to = have an overall view of the network.=C2=A0 If multiple=C2=A0ID-enabled solu= tions with distinct mapping systems are deployed,=C2=A0troubleshooting may = be difficult as the information may be=C2=A0located in different places.
c.=C2=A0 Complex Management due to disjoint information spr= ead over=C2=A0several mapping systems.=C2=A0 Operations such as merging net= works are=C2=A0error prone and more challenging to detect and fix.

d= .=C2=A0 Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For = example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be needed= to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering struct= ures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc.

e.=C2=A0 Risk for fragmented connectivity.=C2=A0 A high diversity = of mapping=C2=A0system variants will create silos of communications.
f.=C2=A0 Complex cross-MS communications.=C2=A0 A common resolu= tion system=C2=A0=C2=A0infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communication= s.=C2=A0 Today it=C2=A0is difficult to communicate with multiple customized= ID mapping=C2=A0systems with distinct interfaces.

2. Security of the infrastructure
Vulnerability and how to a= ddress it=C2=A0

3. Security of the data stored in = infrastructure
Access to the mapping system must be secured in or= der to address privacy data integrity.


<= div>Your comments and suggestions welcome

<= /div> --001a1145de048c9075054f70a649-- From nobody Sat May 13 17:10:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084FE129C5E for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JIb3T0HJaVfq for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E807E129C6A for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id b84so48323491wmh.0 for ; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yHbn0nkUb/O9ADG7E7BlZ2LpbFSKM86jGC6zkBN8upg=; b=kidmcmSNKpK60zCDelPktKJvBxEeRQwM4g29Ranr84mQxG42Kd5WauMnIBRzJ4Mb96 BdKUCdcu+dES2IQC36LSqHSiXvta65M8jnO56ZHc8OgzaIqYwN4MxzTvqMZBxqR0p8Nk PCsIgOabYTk9+5oq+QiOdYR3z0Nnx031Qn//+CQW8bNYXzKXJjH7+aSuKAjRsKZZldcI sKbwNmKz13I2ES+cEkJbckmKQbSq8e06BkL5Py2h9Sqyl4BEi/bkLS6KlZj1M0QnNjC7 lxpN6s6eL3dvRaR0R1edAJ/MOcu8ETyVslWWm9I9GHFd3a6mtpDWqd2GTbNjj9oiUWKM fb/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yHbn0nkUb/O9ADG7E7BlZ2LpbFSKM86jGC6zkBN8upg=; b=YzXxR/ctWiYU8dFS+X08l3MYaH8BbmGYFGtG/UKGGagFHuqZQQwU2UmL/7lEC2mRcX 4iB8GDKBCtlmf0Ed5fjomCsMKaIoFhAaCt6Uy2GmTYo9oeGNdyER1kQqGNtU6cIgHCuX TdrmCbG3Lbm8AZ4xfJkpjBts9nyRiT8Yg73+ZB+U4uE4JSEGZzDCQCJa2jkFR3qe/RTd RE6RSCoJxXTotJZXbFaeUCVRzE9v4mr8jUlzlqzMaElHzYoixWODXOJbH0XF/1X057+F dj1CoUNJN7/wNTIHpkcNl+jSWBGy9B1Ko/+CeU8d2tgqXBr7xqpBUF9C4g5p1zRZaJcd uW/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAs3UJpIunsTvMCfvhMimYKUwBxgNZ1b6J4luG61t5fPTLa0ZyM 6sgk6vTgv1VcfTgcF788QT7Dqei/kZuO X-Received: by 10.28.191.89 with SMTP id p86mr6732789wmf.27.1494720495312; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c074b2c2964ce054f70bcaa" Archived-At: Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 00:10:32 -0000 --94eb2c074b2c2964ce054f70bcaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello IDEAS The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away. Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you regarding the scope of work and your interests. Proposed Charter The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93locat= ion separation protocols. The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically these services will include: =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associa= ted identifiers =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), =C2=B7 support for grouping, =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies =C2=B7 support for metadata. Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, policy control, and security aspects. Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services that they provide. Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. WG deliverables include: Overall architecture WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: -Problem statement -Use cases -Requirements ..... Milestones TBD --94eb2c074b2c2964ce054f70bcaa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello IDEAS

The deadline for a request = for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0<= /div>

Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We = would like to have input from the list regarding the charter. We would like= to hear from you regarding the scope of work and your interests.

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. <= /span>

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M)= , context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of= devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end= . A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications.= =C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated identifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will = be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.=

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the serv= ices that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD

--94eb2c074b2c2964ce054f70bcaa-- From nobody Mon May 15 23:31:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22D512E039 for ; Mon, 15 May 2017 23:31:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CQ5b8JqKeWwi for ; Mon, 15 May 2017 23:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B7CA1293F5 for ; Mon, 15 May 2017 23:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DMZ95979; Tue, 16 May 2017 06:27:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.86.210.35) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 16 May 2017 07:27:57 +0100 Received: from SZXEMI508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.10.154]) by szxemi412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.86.210.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 16 May 2017 14:27:51 +0800 From: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaJe/PNFODRoUWJ3h66M6A23qH2fpyw Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 06:27:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.168.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C1CE72EE84AF224E94DA21AE134209EE01042B51SZXEMI508MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.591A9BEF.00C5, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.10.154, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DEtXZ_3wfLjZ for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 15:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22c.google.com (mail-pf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 592511287A7 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id n23so81974211pfb.2 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DBZ6lI5bV0xul8ki2Sghol2uq42XZYuNm4wJEroaunc=; b=RAel9JBkOuKggd+3itpQcmCda9IYdjTew/qEAvE/kCVpepGnQzsTFwDX6yr1QFCEAC u903VEX2LKq1sz6dRdYbAMfoaeUGre2Q/V+tLXbbRHtPRF3d+OQi/yWyWS4BEA3lIO0j zAe3bzZZhR2pkyfrS1pIWrG/Ze0Bv60WGFB4FOa6yhU7t0EYfHxYIz2X3r4O4o0uNH/d NwoiprKfNobLuylPQh4ZNjg/wbbdhoSXQWvKphFIa7ScEiVBPDw69rsemTS/TE738Thk 6JNwbc9WK60EyAF9iawVe5Re9PPK//OXUvnGf1/mzUUUSLxViDncVCzNVP6GNx9ZY2Pi S0zw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DBZ6lI5bV0xul8ki2Sghol2uq42XZYuNm4wJEroaunc=; b=kHqm6MZVYCSD5K5+IdASB8gTrE2i8vIS2QAlXcXm807bUR3T8qJbGBnmjZIQ82LCKZ 2owZmHlFVEobQrEJ0lei/m0hWYM58nPGW6Uh7N0a9I95YOG1Pbt7SXfVbdH+ERH4P85R ysVjrLRxRCYSULmhYeBHOmgLwNvdq+uchmYtfC+HwLvHBIOEtG+ACrIIGYX72dMtugXD BcFfHk78TgdiBejTP+zp8NXkXyhAinIofcRtR6NalHTZxlTOe01l++4C5IEXUr1UzGUx 3n0jXcX/w9+gu3G1fwwIqN5D25ORm0hCR53V7AOjD5nelbAI9+qbQgNpnc/yQvC+CoGt vLPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBZHjUJZh2UKQvZC7uTTCzN5e3Q5/ixNnGVCfsVhS95qxjW9DzD g2M/6DZeQ2MHH/dBIU7Bc/O0E1ASlflw X-Received: by 10.98.61.207 with SMTP id x76mr219922pfj.170.1494972519154; Tue, 16 May 2017 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.161.74 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2017 15:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Shreyasee Mukherjee Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 18:08:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c11365cf41a7f054fab6926" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 22:12:46 -0000 --94eb2c11365cf41a7f054fab6926 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Should the deliverables also include how a few of the use-cases (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported? @Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol services, I think there should also be a deliverable on a backward compatible interface to the control plane to allow inter-operability to LISP, HIP and other works. --shreyasee On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, wrote: > Send Ideas mailing list submissions to > ideas@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ideas-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ideas-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS > (Padma Pillay-Esnault) > 2. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter > Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Padma Pillay-Esnault > To: ideas@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 > Subject: [Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 whic= h > is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list for > organizing the BOF. > > The problem statement version -001 advocates for a standardized, secured > common control plane with data integrity. See below pointer and for > companion docs see section 7. > > IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01 > > > Brief recap of main points > > 1. Key problems due to lack of a common control plane Infrastructure > > a. An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it > is inefficient to deploy several specialized mapping/resolution network > databases within the same administrative domain. > > b. Difficulty to have an overall view of the network. If > multiple ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are > deployed, troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may > be located in different places. > > c. Complex Management due to disjoint information spread over several > mapping systems. Operations such as merging networks are error prone and > more challenging to detect and fix. > > d. Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For > example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be need= ed > to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering > structures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc. > > e. Risk for fragmented connectivity. A high diversity of mapping system > variants will create silos of communications. > > f. Complex cross-MS communications. A common resolution > system infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications. Today it = is > difficult to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping systems with > distinct interfaces. > > 2. Security of the infrastructure > Vulnerability and how to address it > > 3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure > Access to the mapping system must be secured in order to address privacy > data integrity. > > > Your comments and suggestions welcome > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Padma Pillay-Esnault > To: ideas@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 > Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter > Proposal > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loc= ation > separation protocols. > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to > end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the > technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of > solutions. > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > specifically these services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > --94eb2c11365cf41a7f054fab6926 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Should the deliverables also include how a = few of the use-cases (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported?
@Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol serv= ices, I think there should also be a deliverable on a backward compatible= =C2=A0interface to the control plane to allow inter-operability to LISP, HI= P and other works.

--shreyasee

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, = <ideas-request@ietf.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Padma Pillay-Esnault)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
C= c:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700
Sub= ject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS
Hello IDEAS

The deadline for a request for = a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 which is a few weeks away. We would l= ike to have input from the list for organizing the BOF.

The problem statement version -001 advocates for=C2=A0a standardized, secured common control plane with data = integrity. See below=C2=A0pointer and for companion docs see=C2=A0section 7.


Brief recap = of main points=C2=A0

1. Key problems due to lack of a=C2= =A0common control plane Infrastructure

a.=C2=A0 An impediment for th= e deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it is=C2=A0inefficient to deploy se= veral specialized=C2=A0mapping/resolution network databases within the same= =C2=A0administrative domain. =C2=A0

b.=C2=A0 Difficulty to have= an overall view of the network.=C2=A0 If multiple=C2=A0ID-enabled solution= s with distinct mapping systems are deployed,=C2=A0troubleshooting may be d= ifficult as the information may be=C2=A0located in different places.
c.=C2=A0 Complex Management due to disjoint information spread = over=C2=A0several mapping systems.=C2=A0 Operations such as merging network= s are=C2=A0error prone and more challenging to detect and fix.

d.=C2= =A0 Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For exam= ple, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be needed to = enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering structures= - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc.

=
e.=C2=A0 Risk for fragmented connectivity.=C2=A0 A high diversity of m= apping=C2=A0system variants will create silos of communications.

f.=C2=A0 Complex cross-MS communications.=C2=A0 A common resolution= system=C2=A0=C2=A0infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications.= =C2=A0 Today it=C2=A0is difficult to communicate with multiple customized I= D mapping=C2=A0systems with distinct interfaces.

2= . Security of the infrastructure
Vulnerability and how to add= ress it=C2=A0

3. Security of the data stored in in= frastructure
Access to the mapping system must be secured in orde= r to address privacy data integrity.


Your comments and suggestions welcome



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
C= c:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700
Sub= ject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Pr= oposal
Hello IDEAS

The deadline for = a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks aw= ay.=C2=A0

Please see below a tentative charter pro= posal. We would like to have input from the list regarding the charter. We = would like to hear from you regarding the scope of work and your interests.=

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. <= /span>

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M)= , context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of= devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end= . A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications.= =C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated identifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will = be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.=

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the serv= ices that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD


_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas


--94eb2c11365cf41a7f054fab6926-- From nobody Tue May 16 17:20:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2ED12EB42 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:20:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7N6DlocvqHz for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C68B5126557 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id t26so134389414qtg.0 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:17:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uVTuRdVvkgo+55aNMND4taRGboOa4BAUfgsPu3A7iwY=; b=hsEaREXdh7KvcMShtynf2uwhIeYGv1sAHJVWdTJlqSTGMvGq8fc7Ct0DpGY9GgcLyg 2WYg4Hg0CQU4AT11GICoVkNRIzDUcBPo4XqtorBW6umiP5tk7mqD8AN3IEth1y9kKkPY YV/EjrXqSk240m3aza4ivzMrfMkVCJRUbB+9gHbmQdPGGyVVyRTMG2ws8kwvSPrIQGAR XvWQ57cRHIEIaoSjxFFdHUpspHDdMeCQVec5u0w6xxwSMWrzY7wvzqV9Qn5xlXk1Tb3w eI2KR2Be3LdcZCEAj+EHuyuKirwJY6Jg+LeIC4R/C9wCF+4YC7Vz7BjhjpCbRsb3ljM2 MN5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uVTuRdVvkgo+55aNMND4taRGboOa4BAUfgsPu3A7iwY=; b=oXeUaOsTED37NbiFNzDc2Z0ukqWOglrpXrJPTrVtn81Ej5zro4f5id3T3mwCmemGP2 dqxtyIeera/nZHssAve3KlUCh9OqyjT9PC+cSQO5IsjbxGXYODdW0SiknJpTDQEBcqov ViUwJk/pNd/DHmK2IRI2fWNWMHhqtckrUumchHviYiKzY2OBqgBGJ8YEBk9qgPppj0dR /5GpVfhduywaJdsS9V+zUCcVTllo9ai7hv6okpGSHAS4yVQICspN2wKvYt1cFw+fvzef DKu4E4L4VobHqdzQ3dbwHWncThqV7Q18fiXNq0tzGXkv3iLEvfyAnfsLYGO75eEgNCmz X4ew== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCFyfqUOFT0lvncJagDqZOPQ5j0UjmrnK3t36bJ54MJj5wXQGbB 5pr4lv43T0wjs+w3VoxpVL8w/XnxApaK X-Received: by 10.237.61.28 with SMTP id g28mr549126qtf.279.1494980224024; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:17:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2017 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tom Herbert Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 17:17:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 00:20:56 -0000 Hi Padma, Thanks for leading this effort. A few comments on the charter... On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framew= ork > to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation > protocols. > Identifier-location separation protocols probably should be defined. I think this actually could easily be used as a control network virtualization where identifiers are virtual addresses and locators are physical addresses. I guess it depends on how much scope we're shooting for. > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware Mobility is also a bit of a loaded term. Mobility of devices like UEs from cell to cell, or mobility of task between machines in a datacenter are physically very different but logically could end up using prety much the same mechanisms (for instance ILA is being used in DC as a direct alternative to encapsulation). Again, seems to be a matter of how much scope this entails. > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to e= nd. Isn't that kind of a given? > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. Not sure what these "siloes" are. > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operation= al > hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > That's good. > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common cont= rol > plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese > services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > Maybe something about dynamic updates and minimizing convergence time, > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that al= low > clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. "new level of control" sounds like marketing. Maybe just take this out. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, pol= icy > control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > Should the use case or relevance to 5G/3GPP be mentioned? Tom > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > From nobody Tue May 16 18:10:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378EB12EC8D for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 18:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGIBlw_oiml1 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B0E612EC9F for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 18:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DND42234; Wed, 17 May 2017 01:06:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.86.210.35) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 17 May 2017 02:06:09 +0100 Received: from SZXEMI508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.10.154]) by szxemi412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.86.210.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:06:03 +0800 From: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" To: Tom Herbert , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaJe/PNFODRoUWJ3h66M6A23qH3JyeAgACSalA= Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 01:06:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.168.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.591BA202.0113, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.10.154, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 01:10:31 -0000 QWdyZWUgb24gVG9tJ3Mgb3BpbmlvbiBvbiBJRC9Mb2MgcHJvdG9jb2xzLiBCYXNpY2FsbHkgaXQg aXMgbWFwcGluZyBmcm9tIG9uZSBuYW1lIHNwYWNlIHRvIGFub3RoZXIsIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIHRo ZSBmaXJzdCBvbmUgaXMgdG9wb2xvZ3ktaW5kZXBlbmRlbnQgd2hpbGUgdGhlIHNlY29uZCBvbmUg aXMgbm90LiBGb3IgZW5kIGhvc3QgbW9iaWxpdHkgb3IgdmlydHVhbCBtYWNoaW5lIG1pZ3JhdGlv biwgdGhleSBhcmUgYmFzaWNhbGx5IGNoYW5naW5nIHRvcG9sb2dpY2FsIGxvY2F0aW9ucy4gDQoN Ci0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBJZGVhcyBbbWFpbHRvOmlkZWFzLWJv dW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBUb20gSGVyYmVydA0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5 LCBNYXkgMTcsIDIwMTcgODoxNyBBTQ0KVG86IFBhZG1hIFBpbGxheS1Fc25hdWx0IDxwYWRtYS5p ZXRmQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBpZGVhc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtJZGVhc10g UHJlcCBmb3IgQk9GIGluIEp1bHkgLSBZb3VyIGlucHV0IE5lZWRlZCBvbiBhIENoYXJ0ZXIgUHJv cG9zYWwNCg0KSGkgUGFkbWEsDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgbGVhZGluZyB0aGlzIGVmZm9ydC4NCg0K 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<644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE47B@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE47B@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 22:43:33 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexander Clemm Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" , Padma Pillay-Esnault Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145de04d29b21054fb1c45b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 05:47:01 -0000 --001a1145de04d29b21054fb1c45b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex Thanks for your feedback. Do you want to write some text to cover this? Thanks Padma On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Alexander Clemm < alexander.clemm@huawei.com> wrote: > Overall this looks fine to me. However, the deliverables section should > probably be a bit more specific, in particular given the scope of the > charter. In addition to =E2=80=9Coverall architecture=E2=80=9D, there wi= ll need to be > deliverables for the other points as well, specifically interfaces for ea= ch > of the distinct services that are taken into the charter and the data > exchanged across these interfaces. > > > > --- Alex > > > > *From:* Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Padma > Pillay-Esnault > *Sent:* Saturday, May 13, 2017 5:08 PM > *To:* ideas@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter > Proposal > > > > Hello IDEAS > > > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loc= ation > separation protocols. > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to > end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the > technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of > solutions. > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > specifically these services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > --001a1145de04d29b21054fb1c45b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alex

Thanks for your feedback.
=

Do you want to write some text to cover this?

Thanks
Padma

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 12:50 PM, Alexander Clemm = <alexander.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:

Overall this looks fine to me.=C2=A0 = However, the deliverables section should probably be a bit more specific, i= n particular given the scope of the charter.=C2=A0 In addition to =E2=80=9Coverall architecture=E2=80=9D, there will need to be deliverab= les for the other points as well, specifically interfaces for each of the d= istinct services that are taken into the charter and the data exchanged acr= oss these interfaces.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--- Alex

=C2=A0

From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Padma Pillay-Esnault
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 5:08 PM
To: ideas@ietf.o= rg
Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Chart= er Proposal

=C2=A0

Hello IDEAS

=C2=A0

The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in J= uly is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We wo= uld like to have input from the list regarding the charter. We would like t= o hear from you regarding the scope of work and your interests.

=C2=A0

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for iden= tifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols.

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across hetero= geneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to th= e diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not be possible to dep= loy a single protocol end to end. A common control plane will address siloe= s in discovery and communications.=C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle t= o deployment and interoperability of solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled techn= ology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated i= dentifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure wi= ll be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security a= nd access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy co= nsiderations.

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and th= e services that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover = interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and o= ther relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD


--001a1145de04d29b21054fb1c45b-- From nobody Tue May 16 22:49:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864EE129A90 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:49:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id erlKEIU8c2Ut for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE6C1129C06 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id w50so1163738wrc.0 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LiNxWnE/LJMKRxMfO6GnSAWnwH0+SAxeTZwZBk+So6Y=; b=WJH6UY8pJp077sG9GsOOeS1KI5ff7mK4aGq45ithWNIz4b8HWVCTDUZY5uHoQtXrDQ J811ziSGWV+G9IuEAj2UhdNRNkvpCJ6jMENnszAKuOQWpys6UurvYMtK+XKp6/xY00hE N8Ad1YDhiYVvLDDmNGn3YCs9W8nJcEESsYl7A1CXez9PeOZ7LPeZ75siqtk+U9RStJyG cLIed+ySinNaP933f0JbJ25cLYObZSl2gT+XQk2rDZrC2BLPqvo73LWHDDiZRouZtkYe ZAiEKmtsVymkYl0ug2tziEl24R+Na5tOoNXVHis/fC2gnnT3VrKbA3EDKZK7SR6oNMJs 62PQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LiNxWnE/LJMKRxMfO6GnSAWnwH0+SAxeTZwZBk+So6Y=; b=hM3o1Kg5iJFkms5ab+RDE+ieVFJHBdZF5VfoeRHEkyoZXhTJWeoBaXHt2u3d4WZYn+ 0Uoxore1t5kbYjKeluHL61z9dc4XZN0RsOFZPw+jqFcPlx4rgyxGJH/Lk5cbcoZa1jyq JA1KHQBe84XhvMKoYv70Qf5tc5DSNyO1ytBtHztkNnanW2ZWXkhv7Vs9YbFCw2lahMly BCbpAb98mwvtsnBlN4hJuZiUVLG9BqRDQOuT2yzar1GKKb80x6XuJgtu81bKRi88ammz pbTxGS0uM/UlSvccM3E5uQchV+Lk9na2OYCaomHmphPvalbeFZdW2sTdMwdvOg+PfPPl d8mA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCJAGVKNM+r/mPXx4VgR5DOGCs4lRTViS1U/Qjehl0c/EZSU9lV kiBeMOUiXAIhS1BOyNbQba6c1R8Ilg== X-Received: by 10.223.175.17 with SMTP id z17mr851137wrc.11.1494999934379; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:45:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:45:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 22:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f4e9a072de1054fb1ccb7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 05:49:14 -0000 --f403045f4e9a072de1054fb1ccb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Bingyang Looks like a good suggestion. Will add it. If anyone has concerns please let us know Thanks Padma On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Liubingyang (Bryan) < liubingyang@huawei.com> wrote: > Thanks for the proposal. > > > > I suggest a minor modification in the scope, i.e., changing =E2=80=9Ca co= mmon > control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols=E2=80= =9D into =E2=80=9Ca common > control plane for* identifiers and* identifier-location separation > protocols=E2=80=9D. > > The main reason is that ID by itself has a lot of work to do in the > control plane, including life cycle management, security and metadata as = in > your list. So the scope should be the control plane for identifiers as we= ll > as ID/Loc protocols. > > > > Bingyang (Bryan) > > > > *From:* Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Padma > Pillay-Esnault > *Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2017 8:08 AM > *To:* ideas@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter > Proposal > > > > Hello IDEAS > > > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loc= ation > separation protocols. > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to > end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the > technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of > solutions. > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > specifically these services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > --f403045f4e9a072de1054fb1ccb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Bingyang

Looks like a good sugges= tion.
Will add it. If anyone has concerns please let us know

Thanks
Padma

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Liu= bingyang (Bryan) <liubingyang@huawei.com> wrote:

Thanks for the proposal.

=C2=A0

I suggest a minor modification in th= e scope, i.e., changing =E2=80=9Ca common control plane for identifier=E2= =80=93location separation protocols=E2=80=9D into =E2=80=9Ca common control= plane for identifiers and identifier-location separation protocols=E2=80= =9D.

The main reason is that ID by itself= has a lot of work to do in the control plane, including life cycle managem= ent, security and metadata as in your list. So the scope should be the control plane for identifiers as well as ID/Loc protoc= ols.

=C2=A0

Bingyang (Bryan)

=C2=A0

From: = Ideas [mailto:i= deas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Padma Pillay-Esnault
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 8:08 AM
To: ideas@ietf.o= rg
Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Chart= er Proposal

=C2=A0

Hello IDEAS

=C2=A0

The deadline for a request for = a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Please see below a tentative ch= arter proposal. We would like to have input from the list regarding the cha= rter. We would like to hear from you regarding the scope of work and your i= nterests.

=C2=A0

Proposed Charter<= /span>

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (= IDEAS) working group focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common c= ontrol plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols.

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solution= s and applications are increasingly being considered to support mobility so= lutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware applications and securi= ty.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not= be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end. A common control plane= will address siloes in discovery and communications.=C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the te= chnical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of soluti= ons.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify = an overall architecture for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for i= dentity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registration and lifecycle management of identi= ties and associated identifiers

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane= interface and protocol extensions that allow clients to communicate with t= hat infrastructure will be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a s= ecured identity will give a new level of control for confidentiality, accou= ntability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage= of data and privacy considerations.

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is c= hartered to work on these areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work= covers the control plane, management, policy control, and security aspects= .

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architectu= re: The working group will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectu= ral components and the services that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: = This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and ident= ifier-enabled protocol.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG= will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with= LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:=

Overall architecture<= /u>

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational doc= uments may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessa= rily be published, but may be

maintained in a draft form or o= n a collaborative Working Group wiki

to support the efforts of the W= orking Group and help new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases=

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0<= /span>

TBD


--f403045f4e9a072de1054fb1ccb7-- From nobody Tue May 16 22:56:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0C6129B3C for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8PzV2JEplQ8 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22c.google.com (mail-wr0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B296128BC8 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id z52so1208553wrc.2 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0aXn9gRsaBm2+dg8k0Ry5JRKSZja+j6LIZZLQ4Wpfxc=; b=dhLEr/4ReHv2Valb/+qYy14ZPp8IcB6Sm6V/2OKtyQILDhxKL+mxFY/0ovv8nNFMaH pHE9nvcBO42qyLzP97fxsJVesfjJNqMnuYyqSwhmJhCIMGUt00VgQVW21N6RcUFipNc2 y9JmdX+cO9q7B5T/u7pV7YVOy9TZTTlb3RoMaH8gka9AgSZmGt+kq4PRWbnK0dVh/FgX QxfoLhOh6RwRqh58wD6r0WTQp+85M8iylw6uz/NzNe2EnxcBpDSnuc13WnIzup2YYZrE Wg6M472ez77dMxZptAn5hnhyEmtd33ZyaqsfRJUe2EZoa7I1fC9+vaGX6jUBv0hLYN+G mrwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0aXn9gRsaBm2+dg8k0Ry5JRKSZja+j6LIZZLQ4Wpfxc=; b=AcMgyQ0GOc/MxuKB0KU4lSN8uJdsM+8kz0IjNv88s4a+hCtKsQJA+8L16apHdcvWes 6AGmY74xM6GUJxihioqWKTYeOGxbtz9G7Fj9KM+QIjMV4PtOGBypOQFW9G+jXqK4dUTk t++bGPF71DJFDYre9J4FSk7R1vnYjFMe4vy1o5YsfvokIsbUUydpDE6zWg19KYwsvSbS G2q5QuhENfMjEF+GZ4jPxfvRW2AwBojujEY7YRVHOOa8v5qJg8D9tsExyxiTnoINU5fQ Ru1DPfbBiJcmu20uNFK76BNXMU3iFMOVMbSE7sSvxSFap7DWGOWSt/63PxsZGRiRDxsl BoZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcC5Eq00CvSdxdrxG9yMiQah6H4D6YtaRK7BY0rvz+VRZSCN2xKK pQ0Bz0PitnvhZi1KeWEALN5iZSVVpU3L X-Received: by 10.223.136.131 with SMTP id f3mr1021398wrf.70.1495000334952; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:52:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2017 22:52:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 22:52:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: Shreyasee Mukherjee Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11461be2e76f6f054fb1e332" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 05:56:05 -0000 --001a11461be2e76f6f054fb1e332 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Shreyasee On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee < shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> wrote: > > Should the deliverables also include how a few of the use-cases (mobility= , > IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported? > Do you mean how the architecture is used for specific use cases? This could be interesting to show the application. It would be great if you and others could take a lead on this. > > @Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol services= , > I think there should also be a deliverable on a backward > compatible interface to the control plane to allow inter-operability to > LISP, HIP and other works. > > I thought we covered this aspect with this sentence "Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions." I do think that backward compatibility may be too strong a requirement, it might be that we need some tweaks. Hence we will work with the appropriate wg if the need arise. Does that address your point? Thanks Padma > --shreyasee > > On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, wrote: > >> Send Ideas mailing list submissions to >> ideas@ietf.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> ideas-request@ietf.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> ideas-owner@ietf.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..." >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >> (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >> 2. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >> Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >> To: ideas@ietf.org >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 >> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >> Hello IDEAS >> >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >> which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list for >> organizing the BOF. >> >> The problem statement version -001 advocates for a standardized, secured >> common control plane with data integrity. See below pointer and for >> companion docs see section 7. >> >> IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01 >> >> >> Brief recap of main points >> >> 1. Key problems due to lack of a common control plane Infrastructure >> >> a. An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it >> is inefficient to deploy several specialized mapping/resolution network >> databases within the same administrative domain. >> >> b. Difficulty to have an overall view of the network. If >> multiple ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are >> deployed, troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may >> be located in different places. >> >> c. Complex Management due to disjoint information spread over several >> mapping systems. Operations such as merging networks are error prone an= d >> more challenging to detect and fix. >> >> d. Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For >> example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be nee= ded >> to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering >> structures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc. >> >> e. Risk for fragmented connectivity. A high diversity of mapping syste= m >> variants will create silos of communications. >> >> f. Complex cross-MS communications. A common resolution >> system infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications. Today it= is >> difficult to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping systems wit= h >> distinct interfaces. >> >> 2. Security of the infrastructure >> Vulnerability and how to address it >> >> 3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure >> Access to the mapping system must be secured in order to address privacy >> data integrity. >> >> >> Your comments and suggestions welcome >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >> To: ideas@ietf.org >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 >> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >> Proposal >> Hello IDEAS >> >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and >> just a few weeks away. >> >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have >> input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from yo= u >> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >> >> Proposed Charter >> >> >> >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the >> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation >> separation protocols. >> >> >> >> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being >> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access >> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to >> end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and >> communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the >> technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of >> solutions. >> >> >> >> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common >> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More >> specifically these services will include: >> >> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and >> associated identifiers >> >> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >> >> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >> >> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >> >> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >> >> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that >> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >> >> >> >> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of >> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control= . >> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >> >> >> >> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >> >> >> >> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, >> policy control, and security aspects. >> >> >> >> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services th= at >> they provide. >> >> >> >> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface >> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >> >> >> >> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working >> Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant >> work. >> >> >> >> WG deliverables include: >> >> Overall architecture >> >> >> >> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >> >> >> >> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >> >> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >> >> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >> >> -Problem statement >> >> -Use cases >> >> -Requirements >> >> ..... >> >> >> >> >> >> Milestones >> >> TBD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > --001a11461be2e76f6f054fb1e332 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Shreyasee

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee <shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> wrote:
=

Should the deliverables also include how a = few of the use-cases (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported?

Do you mean how the architecture is used for= specific use cases?

This could be interesting to = show the application.
It would be great if you and others could t= ake a lead on this.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

@Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different in= tra-protocol services, I think there should also be a deliverable on a back= ward compatible=C2=A0interface to the control plane to allow inter-operabil= ity to LISP, HIP and other works.


I thought we covered this aspect with this sentence=
"Moreover, a common cont= rol plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment a= nd interoperability of solutions."

I d= o think that backward compatibility may be too strong a requirement, it mig= ht be that we need some tweaks. Hence we will work with the appropriate wg = if the need arise.

Does that address your point?

Thanks
Padma
=C2=A0
--shreyasee

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:0= 0 PM, <ideas-request@ietf.org> wrote:
Send Ideas mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Padma Pillay-Esnault)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault)=


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for a BOF in Ju= ly - Your Input Needed on PS
Hello IDEAS
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02= /2017 which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list = for organizing the BOF.

The problem statement vers= ion -001 advocates for=C2=A0a standardiz= ed, secured common control plane with data integrity. See below=C2=A0pointe= r and for companion docs see=C2=A0section 7.=


Brief recap of main points=C2=A0

1. Key problems due to lack of a=C2=A0common control plane Infrastr= ucture

a.=C2=A0 An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solut= ions as it is=C2=A0inefficient to deploy several specialized=C2=A0mapping/r= esolution network databases within the same=C2=A0administrative domain. =C2= =A0

b.=C2=A0 Difficulty to have an overall view of the network.= =C2=A0 If multiple=C2=A0ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems = are deployed,=C2=A0troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may = be=C2=A0located in different places.

c.=C2=A0 Complex Man= agement due to disjoint information spread over=C2=A0several mapping system= s.=C2=A0 Operations such as merging networks are=C2=A0error prone and more = challenging to detect and fix.

d.=C2=A0 Barriers to the application = of common and consistent policies. For example, in cross-platform IoT netwo= rking, brokering services may be needed to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE = policies on behalf of partnering structures - service provider, energy prov= ider, content provider, etc.

e.=C2=A0 Risk for fragmente= d connectivity.=C2=A0 A high diversity of mapping=C2=A0system variants will= create silos of communications.

f.=C2=A0 Complex cross-M= S communications.=C2=A0 A common resolution system=C2=A0=C2=A0infrastructur= e may facilitate cross-MS communications.=C2=A0 Today it=C2=A0is difficult = to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping=C2=A0systems with distin= ct interfaces.

2. Security of the infrastructure
Vulnerability and how to address it=C2=A0

=
3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure
Access to t= he mapping system must be secured in order to address privacy data integrit= y.


Your comments and suggestions we= lcome



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for BOF in July= - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal
Hello IDEAS<= div>
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July = is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0

Plea= se see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have input from= the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you regarding t= he scope of work and your interests.

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. <= /span>

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M)= , context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of= devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end= . A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications.= =C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated identifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will = be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.=

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the serv= ices that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD


_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas



_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas


--001a11461be2e76f6f054fb1e332-- From nobody Tue May 16 23:27:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8848B120227 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:27:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JM-HlwUwi7kX for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B381200F1 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id z52so1532442wrc.2 for ; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:24:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/LbXQDjjapkzWih+ZEAUKurOAHlYA4z1BiYNJA//LIQ=; b=KDlt4lhZXwLmnRgLMIdSRduIpXpwc8g7wxNpyuYI3Hft0vCQb77BWgIiQO5m12VSU3 rQrvCo3+87X9DGfKwJS3M9Kpar3d9MotL0mpNygqkAjrrbfEzT6DZLqd2G+Zn3ztirm/ NFfUtajQ3exoaTMGumewvKUNN1k6mjRGY4c0SmsobVfwZ0Zpv5/HM1T0UWup5gkIKoBh cScSfPq4Gczgx74FAbFAvSeDDbxyoEYO1yilow/HvIzJxvwVyrajvXbM2EcXeJKFGNnR HhlWOv1QSEjY5fyY1c95awyUln7CEJaM3b98ZMNIsT971iHJk8WjqRZgdUfWFrLLRpK5 x/jQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/LbXQDjjapkzWih+ZEAUKurOAHlYA4z1BiYNJA//LIQ=; b=oVBoPZVeTcIIPADAZmOmAnZ72tOXtHaGIAZY8LpOuv71wzTv+mW1mX373rwAxUAnbR 1pvaJpYEBGFB77S3pviFW6Qs0nJFyUznpQrvnhFty7d64ESFCL9DbG0bJrqj6BxP4YlK 5w7v2Q8OkwiF8ZNxQmSBS+A4zmSgFQuUDgsKEDncdppvGHGtbenFFK8cFUWb1bbcc8g9 qYDAUPt1wPcA//SA/nZn0uAIxIL3aJMC/1LEYByuLmFvr2axTPLD5i6t+OO83Vz0amS2 9HZvIyxmQ8RtKlYM7agk4zgEzZOe2c1v0dDrzW+UkP1wlWs9oIYEFsihC5/n0N4Radc7 vkDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCH9mx9u3spSw0IWlLXbH1HSKXPBogymZXs6BvidaolsASX70+q PYOK2Zge5qUkSNgID4xyndW8JJ/yQQ== X-Received: by 10.223.175.17 with SMTP id z17mr954580wrc.11.1495002242936; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:24:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2017 23:24:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 23:24:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" Cc: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f4e9aa0f7fd054fb255e4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 06:27:34 -0000 --f403045f4e9aa0f7fd054fb255e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Bingyang Thanks for your feedback. See below for comments On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Liubingyang (Bryan) wrote: > Agree on Tom's opinion on ID/Loc protocols. Basically it is mapping from > one name space to another, and perhaps the first one is > topology-independent while the second one is not. For end host mobility o= r > virtual machine migration, they are basically changing topological > locations. > Agree as well. We should add this for clarity. Bingyang I really like the ideas of putting mapping one name space to another. Regarding whether a namespace is topology independent completely may actually depend on how we decide to do the allocation. This is an important discussion and I would suggest we use two names spaces independent of each other. Thoughts? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:17 AM > To: Padma Pillay-Esnault > Cc: ideas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charte= r > Proposal > > Hi Padma, > > Thanks for leading this effort. > > A few comments on the charter... > > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault < > padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello IDEAS > > > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > > and just a few weeks away. > > > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from > > you regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > > > Proposed Charter > > > > > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation > > separation protocols. > > > Identifier-location separation protocols probably should be defined. I > think this actually could easily be used as a control network > virtualization where identifiers are virtual addresses and locators are > physical addresses. I guess it depends on how much scope we're shooting f= or. > > If we say they are independent of each other that should cover the scope issue. > > > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly > > being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous > > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context > > aware > > Mobility is also a bit of a loaded term. Mobility of devices like UEs fro= m > cell to cell, or mobility of task between machines in a datacenter are > physically very different but logically could end up using prety much the > same mechanisms (for instance ILA is being used in DC as a direct > alternative to encapsulation). Again, seems to be a matter of how much > scope this entails. > Yes I see what you mean, by mobility the text is really talking about the case of changing your locator. If you keep the same locator that would be transparent to the network and still be seen as fixed. The interesting application is really the hetnet cases which will most probably cause changes of locator and also have multihoming. We should actually add some text on multihoming handling. > > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to > end. > Isn't that kind of a given? > > After discussion it would seem this is not clear to all. The sentence does no harm here. Thoughts? > > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. > > Not sure what these "siloes" are. > fragmented communication or discovery because of different systems. Will rephrase. > > > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and > > operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > > > That's good. > > > > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > > specifically these services will include: > > > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and ass= ociated > > identifiers > > > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > > Maybe something about dynamic updates and minimizing convergence time, > Ok will add > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and > access-control. > > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > "new level of control" sounds like marketing. Maybe just take this out. > ok will rephrase this > > > > > > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > > that they provide. > > > > > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface > > interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t > work. > > > Should the use case or relevance to 5G/3GPP be mentioned? > Yes we can add something about this. Thanks for your comments Will respin this and resend Padma > > Tom > > > > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > Overall architecture > > > > > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > -Problem statement > > > > -Use cases > > > > -Requirements > > > > ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Milestones > > > > TBD > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ideas mailing list > > Ideas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > --f403045f4e9aa0f7fd054fb255e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tom, Bingyang

Thanks for your feedba= ck.

See below <PPE> for comments

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at= 6:06 PM, Liubingyang (Bryan) <liubingyang@huawei.com> = wrote:
Agree on Tom's opinion on ID/L= oc protocols. Basically it is mapping from one name space to another, and p= erhaps the first one is topology-independent while the second one is not. F= or end host mobility or virtual machine migration, they are basically chang= ing topological locations.

<PPE><= /div>

Agree as well. We should add this for clarity.
=

Bingyang I really like the ideas of putting mappi= ng one name space to another.=C2=A0
Regarding whether a namespace= is topology independent completely may actually depend on how we decide to= do the allocation.=C2=A0

This is an important dis= cussion and I would suggest we use two names spaces independent of each oth= er. Thoughts?

=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:17 AM
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.= ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: ideas@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter = Proposal

Hi Padma,

Thanks for leading this effort.

A few comments on the charter...

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello IDEAS
>
> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away.
>
> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from<= br> > you regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>
> Proposed Charter
>
>
>
> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the
> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93l= ocation
> separation protocols.
>
Identifier-location separation protocols probably should be defined. I thin= k this actually could easily be used as a control network virtualization wh= ere identifiers are virtual addresses and locators are physical addresses. = I guess it depends on how much scope we're shooting for.

<PPE>
If we say they are = independent of each other that should cover the scope issue.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
>
>
> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly
> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context=
> aware

Mobility is also a bit of a loaded term. Mobility of devices like UEs from = cell to cell, or mobility of task between machines in a datacenter are phys= ically very different but logically could end up using prety much the same = mechanisms (for instance ILA is being used in DC as a direct alternative to= encapsulation). Again, seems to be a matter of how much scope this entails= .

<PPE>
Yes= I see what you mean, by mobility the text is really talking about the case= of =C2=A0changing your locator. If you keep the same locator that would be= transparent to the network and still be seen as fixed.

The interesting application is really the hetnet cases which will mos= t probably cause changes of locator and also have multihoming. =C2=A0
=

We should actually add some text on multihoming handlin= g.



> applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of devices = and
> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end t= o end.
Isn't that kind of a given?

<PPE>
After discussion it= would seem this is not clear to all.=C2=A0 The sentence does no harm here.= Thoughts?
=C2=A0
> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicat= ions.

Not sure what these "siloes" are.

<PPE> fragmented communication or discovery because = of different systems.
Will rephrase.=C2=A0

> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and
> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >
That's good.

>
>
> The working group will specify an overall architecture for=C2=A0 a com= mon
> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More=
> specifically these services will include:
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 registration and lifecycle management of id= entities and associated
> identifiers
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for grouping,
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for metadata.
>
Maybe something about dynamic updates and minimizing convergence time,
<= /div>

<PPE> Ok will add

> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that=
> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.=
>
>
>
> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-co= ntrol.
> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.

"new level of control" sounds like marketing. Maybe just take thi= s out.

<PPE>
ok will rephrase this=C2=A0
=C2=A0

>
>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management,<= br> > policy control, and security aspects.
>
>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services<= br> > that they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface
> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other releva= nt work.
>
Should the use case or relevance to 5G/3GPP be mentioned?

<PPE> Yes we can add something about t= his.=C2=A0


Thanks for your comments=
Will respin this and resend

Padma =C2= =A0

Tom

>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas=
>

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

--f403045f4e9aa0f7fd054fb255e4-- From nobody Wed May 17 08:31:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED2E12951E for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id REPGUGzETf95 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D1B012943F for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id f55so12268639qta.3 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:25:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JNz6H/ke8spzlXBYYPmk1DoN8cwFRQlXTadcII/RgTs=; b=WQ5LySpIzIyWPI2IgaA0gx/DGuo80cQ91B6YJI+kWJksE6TDP8KKcfV0GMzi4P0rDI xg6xV3RLGSbKdZR+1yK9bv1IlyhKB+xzIRH7jtEKInEfpZeqYSzGQ54ofnNoMTExiPk/ VslMo4lt/J0nDRCBxjkvwIlX2R+3IjpJOdrxgc9XyqqtYf0DIsG7w6AR58ZrzjSmiybB 0SPgwAB+ZQAXUax3CFW8o8L0F9zoV7LmZYcLIpZ7qeGt87dqxoxC+jSOcSMpNhKbdm7v VtW+93AeCPhjudqNshGpK+Nkw5TFs010LqtdpIuRAJuVpI6FjoaKp2KYIZynvNakbGKS Y35Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JNz6H/ke8spzlXBYYPmk1DoN8cwFRQlXTadcII/RgTs=; b=KJriJVeJl+zM4Mbv8bqKE3Ikq23J1TWTYs7VxVVV3CvR7mX4iLcOPRBGzgbSRQZftA NOLxW9AZzTHoq8jaK267EYPw5OpZphaoFGDGT7T5cgl/SI0QFp0iL5r5FFlEJpzr9sk6 xsZ/94uotzHUMne1Tx7Fqo65+cs2YeZdNn9r4uQbfCUhccYqyQe4/9PJFeo7NaxTwspz boNXpP6YCrIcM1hjZ6BEK1eHJw4fuqSVg0joK5KpITRCX/syXZWGlAKlr2iGDQjbj4d8 o3PyAwpKP0ucXMFEskLu3N8vnd039ssnx0+ABm1KX2qyGBgiOhvz7QvkYo+EqmWvazym eQTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDSqazB9rKkdfyU8P5W0J4ilbKxnicGZU6Z40H39zZCKTxWSn5c rMNcnf+Pvju5rpruldHEqZ59vPtdInCD X-Received: by 10.237.58.103 with SMTP id n94mr3876275qte.42.1495034721225; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:25:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:25:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 08:25:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:31:17 -0000 On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framew= ork > to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation > protocols. > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to e= nd. > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operation= al > hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common cont= rol > plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese > services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that al= low > clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, pol= icy > control, and security aspects. > Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natural two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers that synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2) A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the servers a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is to manage the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache management will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull techniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would be re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant differences in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since requests can be validated using a nonce. Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope is. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create their own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if they want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach). Tom > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > From nobody Wed May 17 09:12:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934F412EA98 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:12:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.103 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.103 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=zdns.cn Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aRzjZRR5TMRA for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.zdns.cn (mail.zdns.cn [202.173.10.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4585E12EBF1 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:05:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zdns.cn; s=dkim; x=1495641906; i=madi@zdns.cn; h=Content-Type: Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; bh=ieKu6YkU8 a5I/P046P9vlMsNHLf83dJz9Sw1Tu2wWGs=; b=jKS+EVNUH5LB8QXY5Vm5Sz2mo qCxh+p70084tuBDXRt5irUd8xvTzt6m7yUEGaq1LyF66epbzW5ZCd7RD2vOw2PaJ 3w2Qok6HCrEseJcroBTvaScUFv2HH4Wovr9qL1EmNegeVFP4U9MnNh2DzxN/FvD+ Vm2ykRNGNGjHogwaFc= X-TM-DID: 59e74db0cf6c1c6134937fee446aa0b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Declan Ma In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 00:04:54 +0800 Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> References: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:12:01 -0000 Padma, This is really a good start.=20 See my comments in lines. > =E5=9C=A8 2017=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C08:08=EF=BC=8CPadma= Pillay-Esnault =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A >=20 > Hello IDEAS >=20 > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 = and just a few weeks away.=20 >=20 > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have = input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from = you regarding the scope of work and your interests. >=20 > Proposed Charter >=20 > =20 > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the = framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loca= tion separation protocols. >=20 > =20 > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly = being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous = access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context = aware applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices = and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end = to end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and = communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the = technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions. >=20 > =20 > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common = control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More = specifically these services will include: >=20 > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and = associated identifiers >=20 > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >=20 > =C2=B7 support for grouping, >=20 > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >=20 > =C2=B7 support for metadata.=20 >=20 >=20 > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that = allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >=20 > =20 > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level = of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and = access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance = them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >=20 > =20 > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >=20 > =20 > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, = policy control, and security aspects. I suggest identity certification, as one of security aspects be = specific. The way to certify the holding or custodianship of an identifier in a = naming space bears significance, which could vary among different = design, self-certified or third-party certified.=20 I believe this issue has something to do with top level design of this = common control plane.=20 Declan (Di) Ma ZDNS From nobody Wed May 17 09:31:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B1E12EC08 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:31:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QJeuUboxg6Pg for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x242.google.com (mail-qk0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CD0E129B14 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x242.google.com with SMTP id o85so2359181qkh.0 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:26:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fvvu/ezPOyjTRF0Jb8VrGeyz6ZFwRy1Rc6UQrVXBuHw=; b=OM/fDr3TcSAc/7YVV62WNfK3D9B+YREOuWBBnRs3OqvX5TGPXAapWoYTewnYXAhKtd DQUGlnMukCRIU+XT4g7VtZuczwTnmFGd8o9b4coiyni5mLKPyzV5qalR7UjhyHfzVg+b vz3vtrw2YXe22J+h1rABB6UR84xLYUd5gn+M+UXkBq1MshKwXKZUiz6pqJbItsjH2SOq 7PU5IX4u+EnyuHAfJifwUy4rDz6NFmPWus7COfOPu6ZZUO405sdBQEH3egdkRFPIMtGM npPZ0zT97q0RnfrwHKmOjklKIy/DFEsdB4Wuh5Eird94BK7ynhFIZeSYCfphagIWCW7T pMuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fvvu/ezPOyjTRF0Jb8VrGeyz6ZFwRy1Rc6UQrVXBuHw=; b=dkAFN7BkR6/hrRR3C4Zu7Fxz5G8d73ZC9WmW/a3fFXOmfxp7VBO4dz8av+IEX0g1za sFEZzC/8T+nr5P7Yli9uGIv6AI2GxsmuHOp5A34V4kzSxlvkQRAWyJ5IdX/JE8yBFmw1 n/8sGSALSjzT3go3Ii5UkrrJJbPEogoK6eee94L6dtPpEEmSmK+lErwonNiVRvbztaL0 SUzKMBoJLq2CCxSDM6WgeYi+FAm+Ht7uoYaVmbId4nftWtShInrrrZs1U+1x2YrIb4mu ii5pkrf2f3s5FmOoF7OAwJaiAaHgQSLute3IQ0kxE2V5pGQ3tX5ssvo3YmZvajGihHp7 czUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDMiFDrrJ0v6ygh72lRsDxmDw3YQPAeakHNQwnDBqq2yrYNgJFP CiqNbVVTSlnR5w== X-Received: by 10.55.130.130 with SMTP id e124mr3656999qkd.27.1495038367462; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.255.251.26] ([63.88.3.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h128sm1725085qke.43.2017.05.17.09.26.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 May 2017 09:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:26:05 -0700 Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault , ideas@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> To: Declan Ma X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:31:47 -0000 > Padma, >=20 > This is really a good start.=20 I agree as well. But have one question on the opening sentence. >=20 >> Hello IDEAS >>=20 >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 = and just a few weeks away.=20 >>=20 >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have = input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from = you regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>=20 >> Proposed Charter >>=20 >>=20 >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the = framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loca= tion separation protocols. So is IDEAs: (1) Creating the framework? (2) Defining protocols to implement? (3) Does implement mean =E2=80=9Cdeploy=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ccreate = mechanisms=E2=80=9D. Shouldn=E2=80=99t you state that the working group will use solutions = from other working groups? Thanks, Dino From nobody Wed May 17 09:44:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFFE129BFF for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y0eKteeGQbuV for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6393129BE0 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n23so10020072pfb.2 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=winlab-rutgers-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dsSBS+47ezIkaRj0PX/a6tSpR5XdczdFig91TLPLtR8=; b=HoSiARSm/P23xx5yvMxmNL0aJxXep+XQdaSmWh0edKFUqavtiINPaKZ9fUUYVRQRgQ eKW663QIEEYOZxaglslEo3dqqMzaDokH9ddWKRU0CXve3xNIojzyIb7F/g0/1n9i0ySx JZmoy6kK3X5pUDAd80p8sEvwNe9XUPX+svtPVQAIKWWvHcghckKjMfuwuMgxon6ZAkYk b+diipEvgiAecR647rrSvvyZIj/CAe+63rlcDb88c3aWZ7qRC+JNvlRCJ6WEForT0xso ekKV0gkm1ityt1rDKP1lfOye8BsrCx8Vfab37azO1nGPDT3S1J4Ayx2gTXbZWr/oJcie fwkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dsSBS+47ezIkaRj0PX/a6tSpR5XdczdFig91TLPLtR8=; b=HclTY8wLnOjYVfqXvZF0fv1iJtyCT6kCpbIxSjKfHHKkohX7ianJFb9DKjRFO1JpkJ 7vfDHS0TGruTIi5dwHWsJGlheHXbl40sy3RrDRsAfkEJaLP6xP+XU1l1Zost/DmUYkmv a9LQFjLHl+qr9kUTA0RruekeK4kBPtAILBx37wbpgDPCDNDxMlej0KuofvVly0plI0tX PERcW1gK0gBT0aV8lEFIllwF7/kKFidInGsdwAI785ggYXpMb1cqltnc3NZb+Bp07pKu Klq2HcA/zSZ4TCEsHMsn78TNhbqZPOw5lsrsTLGBzdxGr48w7b/Q9d/8z6bgrxwM8u7Q wyHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcA239wLsQbCc4m/JVnCzTTTJ22Ax0HUb1kjA4dSSarDfJsZMscB 4ojV3i51mK9L1TRc1A1ASbKMKpCc7Ez2lvY= X-Received: by 10.99.64.1 with SMTP id n1mr4734332pga.197.1495039064252; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.161.74 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Shreyasee Mukherjee Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 12:37:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c08dc1459c21b054fbae841" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:44:22 -0000 --94eb2c08dc1459c21b054fbae841 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Padma, Sure, let me know. Like you mentioned we could add some text on hetnets with mobility and multihoming. --shreyasee On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hello Shreyasee > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee < > shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> wrote: > >> >> Should the deliverables also include how a few of the use-cases >> (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported? >> > > Do you mean how the architecture is used for specific use cases? > > This could be interesting to show the application. > It would be great if you and others could take a lead on this. > > >> @Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol >> services, I think there should also be a deliverable on a backward >> compatible interface to the control plane to allow inter-operability to >> LISP, HIP and other works. >> >> > I thought we covered this aspect with this sentence > "Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and > operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions." > > I do think that backward compatibility may be too strong a requirement, i= t > might be that we need some tweaks. Hence we will work with the appropriat= e > wg if the need arise. > > Does that address your point? > > Thanks > Padma > > >> --shreyasee >> >> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, wrote: >> >>> Send Ideas mailing list submissions to >>> ideas@ietf.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> ideas-request@ietf.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> ideas-owner@ietf.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..." >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >>> (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >>> 2. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >>> Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >>> To: ideas@ietf.org >>> Cc: >>> Bcc: >>> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 >>> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >>> Hello IDEAS >>> >>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >>> which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list fo= r >>> organizing the BOF. >>> >>> The problem statement version -001 advocates for a standardized, >>> secured common control plane with data integrity. See below pointer and= for >>> companion docs see section 7. >>> >>> IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01 >>> >>> >>> Brief recap of main points >>> >>> 1. Key problems due to lack of a common control plane Infrastructure >>> >>> a. An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it >>> is inefficient to deploy several specialized mapping/resolution network >>> databases within the same administrative domain. >>> >>> b. Difficulty to have an overall view of the network. If >>> multiple ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are >>> deployed, troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may >>> be located in different places. >>> >>> c. Complex Management due to disjoint information spread over several >>> mapping systems. Operations such as merging networks are error prone a= nd >>> more challenging to detect and fix. >>> >>> d. Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For >>> example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be ne= eded >>> to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering >>> structures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc. >>> >>> e. Risk for fragmented connectivity. A high diversity of >>> mapping system variants will create silos of communications. >>> >>> f. Complex cross-MS communications. A common resolution >>> system infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications. Today i= t is >>> difficult to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping systems wi= th >>> distinct interfaces. >>> >>> 2. Security of the infrastructure >>> Vulnerability and how to address it >>> >>> 3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure >>> Access to the mapping system must be secured in order to address privac= y >>> data integrity. >>> >>> >>> Your comments and suggestions welcome >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >>> To: ideas@ietf.org >>> Cc: >>> Bcc: >>> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 >>> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >>> Proposal >>> Hello IDEAS >>> >>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 an= d >>> just a few weeks away. >>> >>> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have >>> input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from y= ou >>> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>> >>> Proposed Charter >>> >>> >>> >>> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the >>> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93l= ocation >>> separation protocols. >>> >>> >>> >>> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly bein= g >>> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access >>> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >>> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >>> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to >>> end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and >>> communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the >>> technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of >>> solutions. >>> >>> >>> >>> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common >>> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More >>> specifically these services will include: >>> >>> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and >>> associated identifiers >>> >>> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>> >>> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>> >>> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>> >>> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>> >>> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that >>> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>> >>> >>> >>> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of >>> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-contro= l. >>> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >>> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>> >>> >>> >>> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>> >>> >>> >>> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, >>> policy control, and security aspects. >>> >>> >>> >>> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >>> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services t= hat >>> they provide. >>> >>> >>> >>> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface >>> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>> >>> >>> >>> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working >>> Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t >>> work. >>> >>> >>> >>> WG deliverables include: >>> >>> Overall architecture >>> >>> >>> >>> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>> >>> >>> >>> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>> >>> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>> >>> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>> >>> -Problem statement >>> >>> -Use cases >>> >>> -Requirements >>> >>> ..... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Milestones >>> >>> TBD >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >> >> > --94eb2c08dc1459c21b054fbae841 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Padma,

Sure, let me = know. Like you mentioned we could add some text on hetnets with mobility an= d multihoming.=C2=A0

--shreyasee

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <padm= a.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Shreyasee

On Tue, May 16, 2017= at 3:08 PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee <shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu>= ; wrote:

Should the deliverables also include how a few of= the use-cases (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported?

Do you mean how the architecture is used fo= r specific use cases?

This could be interesting to= show the application.
It would be great if you and others could = take a lead on this.=C2=A0



@Alex: Along with the interfaces to th= e different intra-protocol services, I think there should also be a deliver= able on a backward compatible=C2=A0interface to the control plane to allow = inter-operability to LISP, HIP and other works.

<= /div>

I thought we covered this aspe= ct with this sentence
"Moreover, a common control plane will address the tech= nical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solution= s."

I do think that backward co= mpatibility may be too strong a requirement, it might be that we need some = tweaks. Hence we will work with the appropriate wg if the need arise.
=

Does that address your point?

= Thanks
Padma=
=C2=A0
--shreyasee

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, <ideas-request@ietf.org> wrote:
Send Ideas= mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/ideas
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas-request@ietf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas-owner@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Padma Pillay-Esnault)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for a BOF in Ju= ly - Your Input Needed on PS
Hello IDEAS
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02= /2017 which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list = for organizing the BOF.

The problem statement vers= ion -001 advocates for=C2=A0a standardiz= ed, secured common control plane with data integrity. See below=C2=A0pointe= r and for companion docs see=C2=A0section 7.=
=
IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">
<= br>
Brief recap of main points=C2=A0

1. Key problem= s due to lack of a=C2=A0common control plane Infrastructure

a.=C2=A0= An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it is=C2=A0ine= fficient to deploy several specialized=C2=A0mapping/resolution network data= bases within the same=C2=A0administrative domain. =C2=A0

b.=C2= =A0 Difficulty to have an overall view of the network.=C2=A0 If multiple=C2= =A0ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are deployed,=C2=A0tr= oubleshooting may be difficult as the information may be=C2=A0located in di= fferent places.

c.=C2=A0 Complex Management due to disjoi= nt information spread over=C2=A0several mapping systems.=C2=A0 Operations s= uch as merging networks are=C2=A0error prone and more challenging to detect= and fix.

d.=C2=A0 Barriers to the application of common and consist= ent policies. For example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering serv= ices may be needed to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of= partnering structures - service provider, energy provider, content provide= r, etc.

e.=C2=A0 Risk for fragmented connectivity.=C2=A0= A high diversity of mapping=C2=A0system variants will create silos of comm= unications.

f.=C2=A0 Complex cross-MS communications.=C2= =A0 A common resolution system=C2=A0=C2=A0infrastructure may facilitate cro= ss-MS communications.=C2=A0 Today it=C2=A0is difficult to communicate with = multiple customized ID mapping=C2=A0systems with distinct interfaces.
=

2. Security of the infrastructure
Vulnera= bility and how to address it=C2=A0

3. Security of = the data stored in infrastructure
Access to the mapping system mu= st be secured in order to address privacy data integrity.


Your comments and suggestions welcome

=


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for BOF in July= - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal
Hello IDEAS<= div>
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July = is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0

Plea= se see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have input from= the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you regarding t= he scope of work and your interests.

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. <= /span>

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M)= , context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of= devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end= . A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications.= =C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated identifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will = be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.=

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the serv= ices that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD


_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas



_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas



--94eb2c08dc1459c21b054fbae841-- From nobody Wed May 17 09:45:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B53CE127342 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:45:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EW0T57Q4pCRF for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22e.google.com (mail-qt0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30266129511 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f55so14113020qta.3 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:39:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RhtscxrvSacOMkRkqdupCdrQOjtR3KTJypugnOai4go=; b=Zlsi9rFC4gtmoPqpop0w5Hb/Crt8VH4cC4c6XTnczuZ7/lfoguD9D5xcP5FnUL2ijt lEW919//V1QXIplz4ZsSZsKTlpzreXTT8RAGEfaF5X1ozSDoIQ1dS1cjPiJVLi4w/qFn dv8YhGdMg4Db3n0eSmF6b63B4Pe1ey5tiEALGHhzR1VRoy2t+lmQLmZ+ETCJrnEKKKk4 kJAkQc8oYWq8pgNd4Hs28msnumYEgJZeGx9DVW2sebfDzjN/DsELAFib1GI4e/rhbZrn 5ZuHWyWMbLpuiPXFqELEP9RzKldZu99LBXfjyNqzAT2NqqqsVQ1u9HVRJxfpieBv8vKL gIpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RhtscxrvSacOMkRkqdupCdrQOjtR3KTJypugnOai4go=; b=VB+j728jwpq6YPQzYpS6MNvlvISk+cxyYg4W3XSUDhoc2XlusbVDWRse0qbHWQoEmx 1GqBJ/1oywcHBBK3ikXKbeTwphJ4MnU5QOkBM9JG0N+kKyvwXQUoZuB/I+rZtGQ0hM0x eP9YH9fNuT7xd25ke0Sx6onAte1QYEtAhVBEMH7/KtbgtJsq6ctiZ0x1Cq9bnAV1azsp h6y9XcCqp8Mft0Z4Ij3VYZ3pVyx7lCp6eC6jjEcTuASkDkiwUNFha5KuXkvvIKiOr7pH 9UJAX9jKApQvHPT/BHprnE/m2eTtY98HD/zEZXd6GulkrHpXZ8uhO1oPP/CEi+UHvtjF 2/1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAddHMQPe3h5Pp7MmH2Vy5kT6oeJwqg7lRjAA9R0Q8pgP7yy+Od reEtm9zEwwbXowsRSdguKMb89XHGI19L X-Received: by 10.200.3.79 with SMTP id w15mr3983309qtg.203.1495039154287; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:39:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 09:39:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:45:56 -0000 On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > What area would IDEAS WG be in? Tom > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framew= ork > to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation > protocols. > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to e= nd. > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operation= al > hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common cont= rol > plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese > services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that al= low > clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, pol= icy > control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > From nobody Wed May 17 10:00:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27DF12DDD2 for ; 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Wed, 17 May 2017 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.255.251.26] ([63.88.3.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r24sm1766887qtc.1.2017.05.17.09.54.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 May 2017 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:54:53 -0700 Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault , ideas@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Tom Herbert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 17:00:06 -0000 On May 17, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: >=20 > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault > wrote: >> Hello IDEAS >>=20 >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 = and >> just a few weeks away. >>=20 > What area would IDEAS WG be in? I believe it is needed in the OPs area but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean it = should go there. Dino >=20 > Tom >=20 >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have = input >> from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you >> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>=20 >> Proposed Charter >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the = framework >> to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location = separation >> protocols. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly = being >> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access >> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end = to end. >> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and = communications. >> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and = operational >> hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common = control >> plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More = specifically these >> services will include: >>=20 >> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and = associated >> identifiers >>=20 >> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>=20 >> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>=20 >> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>=20 >> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>=20 >> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions = that allow >> clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level = of >> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and = access-control. >> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, = policy >> control, and security aspects. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services = that >> they provide. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface = interactions >> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working = Groups >> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant = work. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> WG deliverables include: >>=20 >> Overall architecture >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>=20 >> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>=20 >> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>=20 >> -Problem statement >>=20 >> -Use cases >>=20 >> -Requirements >>=20 >> ..... >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Milestones >>=20 >> TBD >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Wed May 17 14:50:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA5FD126CC7 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xE_FLjxHq6SO for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 14:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18B3A12009C for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNG20304; Wed, 17 May 2017 21:50:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:15 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 17 May 2017 14:50:12 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Dino Farinacci , Tom Herbert CC: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaMMavYZ1dllUWY8vR2r/Nz3aH5NQaAgAAEYYD//9zqYA== Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:50:11 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE8FC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.107] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.591CC598.006C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRlYXMNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCklkZWFzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KSWRlYXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRlYXMNCg== From nobody Wed May 17 15:08:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F735126B6E for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PpIhkG3cTINE for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47318126DD9 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNG21781; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:08:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:25 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:08:20 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Tom Herbert , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaMMavYZ1dllUWY8vR2r/Nz3aH5IGIA///2QzA= Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:08:19 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.107] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.591CC9DB.011A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and 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bGlzdA0KSWRlYXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vaWRlYXMNCg== From nobody Wed May 17 15:42:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226AC1270B4 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nL_rtUvH2k-j for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA951126C2F for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNG24523; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:42:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:42:37 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.229]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:42:32 -0700 From: Hesham ElBakoury To: Dino Farinacci , Tom Herbert CC: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaMo3BBJKtDB0aMijv9o9DYiqH5NQaAgAAEYYD//+tlkA== Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:42:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.201.113.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.591CD1DF.0053, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:42:44 -0000 V2h5IE9QUyBub3QgUnRnIGFyZWEgbGlrZSBMSVNQID8NCg0KSGVzaGFtDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBJZGVhcyBbbWFpbHRvOmlkZWFzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v cmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBEaW5vIEZhcmluYWNjaQ0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBNYXkgMTcs IDIwMTcgOTo1NSBBTQ0KVG86IFRvbSBIZXJiZXJ0DQpDYzogUGFkbWEgUGlsbGF5LUVzbmF1bHQ7 IGlkZWFzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0lkZWFzXSBQcmVwIGZvciBCT0YgaW4gSnVs eSAtIFlvdXIgaW5wdXQgTmVlZGVkIG9uIGEgQ2hhcnRlciBQcm9wb3NhbA0KDQpPbiBNYXkgMTcs IDIwMTcsIGF0IDk6MzkgQU0sIFRvbSBIZXJiZXJ0IDx0b21AaGVyYmVydGxhbmQuY29tPiB3cm90 ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIFNhdCwgTWF5IDEzLCAyMDE3IGF0IDU6MDggUE0sIFBhZG1hIFBpbGxheS1F c25hdWx0DQo+IDxwYWRtYS5pZXRmQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBIZWxsbyBJREVBUw0K Pj4gDQo+PiBUaGUgZGVhZGxpbmUgZm9yIGEgcmVxdWVzdCBmb3IgYSBCT0YgZm9yIElFVEY5OSBp biBKdWx5IGlzIDYvMDIvMjAxNyBhbmQNCj4+IGp1c3QgYSBmZXcgd2Vla3MgYXdheS4NCj4+IA0K 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(mail-qk0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC7CF126C2F for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id a72so22773769qkj.2 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 15:55:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0reo5eKcjjX2jQOKHbqc1P1b+qqbn3Mr+oN3/rSXFT0=; b=DFtYhsJLILkDEh6XkfkDr/48RjdrhZvpwXWFjARs8j9ntE8hHJVyebnpXVxCj7V5iH IDKtj1qRNp/uFnwGR7STRv9z9zfYFs3ubTzzGtIobu0LkRnPqFyc/smHRk9gZt0+fj0k b+zq/4h4cWnWaBdjOmYD3M8oI39pG3U87fSSfDjVCunPnqPwbACUwCsZzK9sxvsE5i7f 9G1/lnfM9KNkDlIAfy+rPpcDBhzbQM8gpDzJLJnqcESR/QbVEDroN2yenrlrHoZdXSRF azwZlqqkzIzIMhmQvJGOBorrWcb8apAf4o56jRzPP1QKCSdwg4E4RLaxDPY1DdY6hZS5 T4HQ== 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-0700 Message-ID: To: Hesham ElBakoury Cc: Dino Farinacci , Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:55:24 -0000 On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Hesham ElBakoury wrote: > Why OPS not Rtg area like LISP ? > I was thinking this should be routing as well. > Hesham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dino Farinacci > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 9:55 AM > To: Tom Herbert > Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault; ideas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charte= r Proposal > > On May 17, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: >> >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault >> wrote: >>> Hello IDEAS >>> >>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 an= d >>> just a few weeks away. >>> >> What area would IDEAS WG be in? > > I believe it is needed in the OPs area but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean it s= hould go there. > > Dino > >> >> Tom >> >>> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have in= put >>> from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you >>> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>> >>> Proposed Charter >>> >>> >>> >>> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the fram= ework >>> to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location sep= aration >>> protocols. >>> >>> >>> >>> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly bein= g >>> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access >>> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >>> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >>> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to= end. >>> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicati= ons. >>> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operati= onal >>> hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >>> >>> >>> >>> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common co= ntrol >>> plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically = these >>> services will include: >>> >>> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and ass= ociated >>> identifiers >>> >>> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>> >>> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>> >>> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>> >>> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>> >>> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that = allow >>> clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>> >>> >>> >>> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of >>> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-contro= l. >>> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >>> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>> >>> >>> >>> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>> >>> >>> >>> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, p= olicy >>> control, and security aspects. >>> >>> >>> >>> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >>> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services t= hat >>> they provide. >>> >>> >>> >>> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interacti= ons >>> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>> >>> >>> >>> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Gro= ups >>> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. >>> >>> >>> >>> WG deliverables include: >>> >>> Overall architecture >>> >>> >>> >>> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>> >>> >>> >>> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>> >>> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>> >>> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>> >>> -Problem statement >>> >>> -Use cases >>> >>> -Requirements >>> >>> ..... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Milestones >>> >>> TBD >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas From nobody Wed May 17 22:52:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B434C12EAFF for ; 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Wed, 17 May 2017 22:47:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:47:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:47:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: Tom Herbert Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f4e9a78ba7a054fc5f08f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 05:52:20 -0000 --f403045f4e9a78ba7a054fc5f08f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Tom Herbert wrote: > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault > wrote: > > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy > > control, and security aspects. > > > Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a > natural two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The > authoritative servers that synchronize the full mapping table for a > domain and possibly shard it 2) A means for hosts to cache a subset of > mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the > servers a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the > distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is to manage > the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache management > will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull > techniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), > push would be re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some > significant differences in security between pull and push, pull being > the easier one to make secure since requests can be validated using a > nonce. > Agree with most of your points. I am not sure that we really want to synchronize the full mapping table but I agree on 2 where ou really want to have efficient cache management. > > Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended > scope is. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like > DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create > their own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables > and if they want to share mapping information with their partners they > can do so by a private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second > approach). > > I am in favor of second as well and think this is more realistic for the use cases. Padma > Tom > > > > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > that > > they provide. > > > > > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface > interactions > > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > Groups > > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > Overall architecture > > > > > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > -Problem statement > > > > -Use cases > > > > -Requirements > > > > ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Milestones > > > > TBD > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ideas mailing list > > Ideas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > > --f403045f4e9a78ba7a054fc5f08f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote:
On S= at, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault
<padma.ietf@gmail.com> wr= ote:
<snip>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, = policy
> control, and security aspects.
>
Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably b= e a
natural two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The
authoritative servers that synchronize the full mapping table for a
domain and possibly shard it 2) A means for hosts to cache a subset of
mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the
servers a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the
distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is to manage
the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache management
will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull
techniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model),
push would be re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some
significant differences in security between pull and push, pull being
the easier one to make secure since requests can be validated using a
nonce.

Agree with most of your points.<= /div>
I am not sure that we really want to synchronize the full mapping= table but I agree on 2 where ou really want to have efficient cache manage= ment.=C2=A0

Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended
scope is. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like
DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create
their own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables
and if they want to share mapping information with their partners they
can do so by a private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second
approach).


I am in favor of second as well and think this is mo= re realistic for the use cases.

Padma
= =C2=A0
Tom

>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services = that
> they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interact= ions
> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol.
>
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Gr= oups
> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work= .
>
>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________= ________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas=
>

--f403045f4e9a78ba7a054fc5f08f-- From nobody Wed May 17 22:53:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF3C12EA94 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:53:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qzRoHqf3FgfZ for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8B781298A1 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id d127so39290781wmf.0 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:48:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z0AMfR+QliDTQ7tWdBxmZl8b6bFteYWAQ7hpAQuto3s=; b=UNCJx8abdpldJ9Ps0TAtRi2sEuswmGZnxyboVb0IPbnqRICUfRkE5BLg/WVgekqO9f bXiJbg6/QLuqTibd0zCajQZ9butFQ+t8Tky+JLG2Kpww5xpJT8xvzn12koauVGdPoRGj mDTrmEXpG23lSARMnu5pgrZQriRDCM4/0cVPPT1F9En43crFsRFDrcRadnH0mUggbSos CfAS02jdpyh20OkSAwUgZQgCmQHA52IeFfm1GEdGc1cIftckmlyS+HI5g5Oc9ce+0aFv E5DtoROcpmZ6OtbprJZoM//QcaU0+eBHyw97cFZEXozFcUdSW/rQ+6cIcZ5GfEp22LPa +xiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z0AMfR+QliDTQ7tWdBxmZl8b6bFteYWAQ7hpAQuto3s=; b=HriL2WjrZl8h8bNAK7uwdgR6tRmaw101J/LvxZGpFbHhvIj/y/xheD+bf8fTnsgdRA pKGMyGsKgE5/rSBTFLVJP722uOl7xIC1odtejLmvp3M4C+E6BAcPuv4Hr4+7IJ+g4S6v bAIygN7+++KIRQjGKm5zZ20xJiG4kR6A9JUR7L/ANb6tteLV5Eby7s9x8bORBb+0uShM +UgBoWFzxURuBW7Bd1fQWd753uPZ2HLoI0wXzjOqTZk1IAxu44wp31JGPjrFaBTrHtMW Yx6OQwz6NWV8CZhvPpNZlZC1r0VwbLI9hGR3KAg09cUjO7QVnb1+x5k/IMkagrKaxvC2 m1oQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAaR5m8OzvUw2ZjyrIPCtcLudBhwB3y2PlSTUZxpixy08XpKyDX aEN8bCO5c20HGi2MGR7Q1oVgoQyW9w== X-Received: by 10.28.91.146 with SMTP id p140mr11790162wmb.120.1495086526416; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:48:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:48:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> References: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:48:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: Declan Ma Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11443bd450ce4c054fc5f5a8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 05:53:49 -0000 --001a11443bd450ce4c054fc5f5a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Declan Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. See my comments below On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Declan Ma wrote: > Padma, > > This is really a good start. > > See my comments in lines. > > > =E5=9C=A8 2017=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C08:08=EF=BC=8CPadm= a Pillay-Esnault =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > I suggest identity certification, as one of security aspects be specific. > > Ok will add that somewhere > The way to certify the holding or custodianship of an identifier in a > naming space bears significance, which could vary among different design, > self-certified or third-party certified. > > I believe this issue has something to do with top level design of this > common control plane. > > Correct. Thanks Padma > > Declan (Di) Ma > > ZDNS > > > > --001a11443bd450ce4c054fc5f5a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Declan

Thank you for your feedback a= nd suggestions.
See my comments below <PPE>

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:0= 4 AM, Declan Ma <madi@zdns.cn> wrote:
Padma,

This is really a good start.

See my comments in lines.

> =E5=9C=A8 2017=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C08:08=EF=BC=8CPad= ma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
<snip&g= t;
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, = policy control, and security aspects.


I suggest identity certification, as one of security aspects be spec= ific.


<PPE> Ok will add that somewhere=
=C2=A0
The way to certify the holding or custodianship of an identifier in a namin= g space bears significance, which could vary among different design, self-c= ertified or third-party certified.

I believe this issue has something to do with top level design of this comm= on control plane.

<PPE> Correct.

Thanks<= /div>
Padma=C2=A0

Declan (Di) Ma

ZDNS




--001a11443bd450ce4c054fc5f5a8-- From nobody Wed May 17 22:55:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4756712E056 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:55:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eVgUNXkiWNBS for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1867312EAB5 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id d127so39331110wmf.0 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cqpRmRRKl6dkXhI0/T6lOg8otxihaYyP2bfzCbFjPwc=; b=IH/RMvZqFAiBZ3mf1IHI1ZQJO2fo9gZqXsK29y9MVJn9GuZnX8M5sTUEAZDhjoBSpn DZrHVsVGH5uoMNrclAvDIdGkkh4xG+pmX7fqw6dM4aOHlOocZV7dqfTd4cLdBND6buY2 gBrKzrZwQA85As/jFZ3mLLtGdWzEcSYn5NLmaCM7PL6o495V2mQlFiAxdplm8Beu3NKl Anlc7Fc3xkNIyMQ3p8tXsC9gPFnxxxj6IM6fXRAERFVuF3ZtikPQN5oG5epb8zOE6rye t3z8BCkhlm12a7drRrZkCwujHevOdEfAmGPsy9/WPNIyNpoCRbbawfsvufVPT6IVxSEX cIng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cqpRmRRKl6dkXhI0/T6lOg8otxihaYyP2bfzCbFjPwc=; b=PKuIovthIU3GdwoGLvoQ/VK8bMLeJBWJ5dIXaaWnMHR1Mitib5YyXhP1xUAWhXLID5 QnJiqbPCf05GC9bDXqJKHElir4M00+/YXh8KMRZk40WX1HlFJzkHPpHoXSjonh4vr6e4 xBiWFzCTJihyy/nxQRQMohznOz0PnLVXYjhRMxV+hgN6pEIgwKbWaWWtR0ZJJgCpQ9lx Fro7PRNHFPqKTyKrVTcnm1ImE88g4knx9DAgEuEEzEpvBDUpD2uuA1HWcVh3jGRYy5Om kFktFnQ26GMNeVwwQ8/euGjBlBp4pjKqZCNh57of7PIaHaK7ejNzVb7RTYQ4nF6T1GOe sn2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBI1W4e2UU30+iAW7DnWheHztgu21noRbKD1wB58wp4+64v4IEX EZSRC6x7/YeQPNRzKfd+LyBjNGQnrQ== X-Received: by 10.28.91.146 with SMTP id p140mr11794844wmb.120.1495086652502; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:50:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Shreyasee Mukherjee Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11443bd4d4bd77054fc5fc03" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 05:55:52 -0000 --001a11443bd4d4bd77054fc5fc03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Shreyasee Can you write a small blurb on this? Thanks Padma On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Shreyasee Mukherjee < shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> wrote: > Hi Padma, > > Sure, let me know. Like you mentioned we could add some text on hetnets > with mobility and multihoming. > > --shreyasee > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault < > padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Shreyasee >> >> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee < >> shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> wrote: >> >>> >>> Should the deliverables also include how a few of the use-cases >>> (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported? >>> >> >> Do you mean how the architecture is used for specific use cases? >> >> This could be interesting to show the application. >> It would be great if you and others could take a lead on this. >> >> > >>> @Alex: Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol >>> services, I think there should also be a deliverable on a backward >>> compatible interface to the control plane to allow inter-operability to >>> LISP, HIP and other works. >>> >>> >> I thought we covered this aspect with this sentence >> "Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and >> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions." >> >> I do think that backward compatibility may be too strong a requirement, >> it might be that we need some tweaks. Hence we will work with the >> appropriate wg if the need arise. >> >> Does that address your point? >> >> Thanks >> Padma >> >> >>> --shreyasee >>> >>> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> Send Ideas mailing list submissions to >>>> ideas@ietf.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> ideas-request@ietf.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> ideas-owner@ietf.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..." >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >>>> (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >>>> 2. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >>>> Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >>>> To: ideas@ietf.org >>>> Cc: >>>> Bcc: >>>> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700 >>>> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS >>>> Hello IDEAS >>>> >>>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >>>> which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list f= or >>>> organizing the BOF. >>>> >>>> The problem statement version -001 advocates for a standardized, >>>> secured common control plane with data integrity. See below pointer an= d for >>>> companion docs see section 7. >>>> >>>> IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01 >>>> >>>> >>>> Brief recap of main points >>>> >>>> 1. Key problems due to lack of a common control plane Infrastructure >>>> >>>> a. An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it >>>> is inefficient to deploy several specialized mapping/resolution networ= k >>>> databases within the same administrative domain. >>>> >>>> b. Difficulty to have an overall view of the network. If >>>> multiple ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are >>>> deployed, troubleshooting may be difficult as the information may >>>> be located in different places. >>>> >>>> c. Complex Management due to disjoint information spread over several >>>> mapping systems. Operations such as merging networks are error prone = and >>>> more challenging to detect and fix. >>>> >>>> d. Barriers to the application of common and consistent policies. For >>>> example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering services may be n= eeded >>>> to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of partnering >>>> structures - service provider, energy provider, content provider, etc. >>>> >>>> e. Risk for fragmented connectivity. A high diversity of >>>> mapping system variants will create silos of communications. >>>> >>>> f. Complex cross-MS communications. A common resolution >>>> system infrastructure may facilitate cross-MS communications. Today = it is >>>> difficult to communicate with multiple customized ID mapping systems w= ith >>>> distinct interfaces. >>>> >>>> 2. Security of the infrastructure >>>> Vulnerability and how to address it >>>> >>>> 3. Security of the data stored in infrastructure >>>> Access to the mapping system must be secured in order to address >>>> privacy data integrity. >>>> >>>> >>>> Your comments and suggestions welcome >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault >>>> To: ideas@ietf.org >>>> Cc: >>>> Bcc: >>>> Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700 >>>> Subject: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter >>>> Proposal >>>> Hello IDEAS >>>> >>>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >>>> and just a few weeks away. >>>> >>>> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have >>>> input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from = you >>>> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>>> >>>> Proposed Charter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the >>>> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93= location >>>> separation protocols. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly >>>> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous ac= cess >>>> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >>>> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >>>> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end t= o >>>> end. A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and >>>> communications. Moreover, a common control plane will address the >>>> technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of >>>> solutions. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common >>>> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More >>>> specifically these services will include: >>>> >>>> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and >>>> associated identifiers >>>> >>>> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>>> >>>> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>>> >>>> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>>> >>>> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>>> >>>> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that >>>> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level o= f >>>> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-contr= ol. >>>> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >>>> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, >>>> policy control, and security aspects. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >>>> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services = that >>>> they provide. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface >>>> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working >>>> Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other releva= nt >>>> work. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> WG deliverables include: >>>> >>>> Overall architecture >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>>> >>>> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>>> >>>> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>>> >>>> -Problem statement >>>> >>>> -Use cases >>>> >>>> -Requirements >>>> >>>> ..... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Milestones >>>> >>>> TBD >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ideas mailing list >>>> Ideas@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> >>> >> > --001a11443bd4d4bd77054fc5fc03 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI Shreyasee

Can you write a small blur= b on this?

Thanks
Padma

On Wed, May 17, 2017 a= t 9:37 AM, Shreyasee Mukherjee <shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu><= /span> wrote:
Hi Padma,<= div>
Sure, let me know. Like you mentioned we= could add some text on hetnets with mobility and multihoming.=C2=A0

--shreyasee
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Wed, May 17, 20= 17 at 1:52 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Shreyasee

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:08 = PM, Shreyasee Mukherjee <shreya@winlab.rutgers.edu> = wrote:

Should the deliverables also include how a few of the use-= cases (mobility, IoT, M2M, etc.) would be supported?

Do you mean how the architecture is used for specifi= c use cases?

This could be interesting to show the= application.
It would be great if you and others could take a le= ad on this.=C2=A0



@Alex= : Along with the interfaces to the different intra-protocol services, I thi= nk there should also be a deliverable on a backward compatible=C2=A0interfa= ce to the control plane to allow inter-operability to LISP, HIP and other w= orks.


I thought we covered this aspect with this sentence
"= Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational= hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions."
=

I do think that backward compatibility may be to= o strong a requirement, it might be that we need some tweaks. Hence we will= work with the appropriate wg if the need arise.

D= oes that address your point?

Thanks
Padma=
= =C2=A0
--shreyasee

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 3:00 PM, &= lt;ideas-reques= t@ietf.org> wrote:
Send Ideas mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/ideas
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas-request@ietf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ideas-owner@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Ideas digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Prep for a BOF in July - Your Input Needed on PS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (Padma Pillay-Esnault)
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proposal (Padma Pillay-Esnault)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:02:12 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for a BOF in Ju= ly - Your Input Needed on PS
Hello IDEAS
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02= /2017 which is a few weeks away. We would like to have input from the list = for organizing the BOF.

The problem statement vers= ion -001 advocates for=C2=A0a standardiz= ed, secured common control plane with data integrity. See below=C2=A0pointe= r and for companion docs see=C2=A0section 7.=
=
IDEAS-Problem-Statement-01<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">
<= br>
Brief recap of main points=C2=A0

1. Key problem= s due to lack of a=C2=A0common control plane Infrastructure

a.=C2=A0= An impediment for the deployment of ID-enabled solutions as it is=C2=A0ine= fficient to deploy several specialized=C2=A0mapping/resolution network data= bases within the same=C2=A0administrative domain. =C2=A0

b.=C2= =A0 Difficulty to have an overall view of the network.=C2=A0 If multiple=C2= =A0ID-enabled solutions with distinct mapping systems are deployed,=C2=A0tr= oubleshooting may be difficult as the information may be=C2=A0located in di= fferent places.

c.=C2=A0 Complex Management due to disjoi= nt information spread over=C2=A0several mapping systems.=C2=A0 Operations s= uch as merging networks are=C2=A0error prone and more challenging to detect= and fix.

d.=C2=A0 Barriers to the application of common and consist= ent policies. For example, in cross-platform IoT networking, brokering serv= ices may be needed to enforce routing/security/QoS/TE policies on behalf of= partnering structures - service provider, energy provider, content provide= r, etc.

e.=C2=A0 Risk for fragmented connectivity.=C2=A0= A high diversity of mapping=C2=A0system variants will create silos of comm= unications.

f.=C2=A0 Complex cross-MS communications.=C2= =A0 A common resolution system=C2=A0=C2=A0infrastructure may facilitate cro= ss-MS communications.=C2=A0 Today it=C2=A0is difficult to communicate with = multiple customized ID mapping=C2=A0systems with distinct interfaces.
=

2. Security of the infrastructure
Vulnera= bility and how to address it=C2=A0

3. Security of = the data stored in infrastructure
Access to the mapping system mu= st be secured in order to address privacy data integrity.


Your comments and suggestions welcome

=


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Padma Pillay-= Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com>
To:=C2=A0ideas@ietf.org
Cc:=C2=A0
Bcc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sa= t, 13 May 2017 17:08:15 -0700
Subject:=C2=A0[Ideas] Prep for BOF in July= - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal
Hello IDEAS<= div>
The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July = is 6/02/2017 and just a few weeks away.=C2=A0

Plea= se see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have input from= the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you regarding t= he scope of work and your interests.

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. <= /span>

=C2=A0

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications ar= e increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M)= , context aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of= devices and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end= . A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications.= =C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of = solutions.

=C2=A0

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated identifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

= =C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will = be covered.

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.=

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the serv= ices that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

.....

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD


_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas



_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
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--001a11443bd4d4bd77054fc5fc03-- From nobody Wed May 17 23:14:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526DF1294C8 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d0VXnih8aJEQ for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 094CE129AEB for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id b84so188884721wmh.0 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W1YEcepISNIwmpGQNXuSTyQIZMltRfW+DKlSKeAuwpw=; b=Uyvr2W/KcmUA/RBDfEvInVrNf/RzWzCxL4QPyyphbciqe1sPP17XCambSYTXoHNaIx fk3DbtTKxNST8nDo/MJFZgxZHVW/qoKW56lhgYPicT4Kh9bocNa4eFHXW4zNMsnjshbi awbeVfTxGK3U30X/OWXUbStK/EZjL2Av42sgNH8AFWhXAXVEECZqe/p3zOR7PNiLQxbt vKEJxOVaxUA2G/qJxmgJ3NuOM0F1zKJw5sHWxI3tPzZqj95IQdc0CfosJxUxoCB54MIq hDx57OBr2fDI3Zu8NrahienOC9NhcEY72ByQFkjm2+phqpYYmsPCnQzCD6cDCZ+TchYG qzSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W1YEcepISNIwmpGQNXuSTyQIZMltRfW+DKlSKeAuwpw=; b=TnxE6cQZg2Zd8USPcLYIZVtK/7DO6NkxFkzk7gpCDzbOIcJ+1lAFNfOnDJnBAicd4k KT76v/8ntuTwLEV59MfMqkzvFg/ChoTdwkZvEtJGqJvGUM/yxtmw+96jwBtTyNC25gXj 0rrYXnAPKystu1crmKPfUvurvVQ7FoeMn+IOyiT4Vgdf/zqU9FJFMFBEXvsjCsN5kpKv vuWdgn6eTtb84+L7iC5FWf0Q4sYGvPpOPIci39MzNNc43BpOSZoHEFBDRoErMt9UYtR7 HN4EX58TmiuItY8eVEHq8OiqRmzP3wSxGOxkEqtwXPql7VW9NgIEKQ3hpfo4ISPkGWMH CAtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAIazKzmSRJF6/sDIIND1juh91OxjlSJAHdwr5Z7Ng+vCvauWKi 0ck2950cnNrhTD0adTSUFyNhA6OjzA== X-Received: by 10.28.57.6 with SMTP id g6mr13564501wma.112.1495087712534; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 23:08:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexander Clemm Cc: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148d978038855054fc63c2a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 06:14:15 -0000 --001a1148d978038855054fc63c2a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex Comments see On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm wrote: > FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by > Bingyang, the other by Tom: > > - On mapping name spaces between each other: At one level this is true, > we could phrase it that way. However, this implies there is no distincti= on > between locators, identifiers, etc. There would be merely "name spaces" > (of possibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names". > If we go this route, we need to be aware of ramifications, e.g. concernin= g > uniqueness requirement. Depending on the coordinate system used for the > locators, uniqueness may not always be a given. Another difference > concerns how names come into being - different for a name (that is > assigned, or that is registered) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of > IDs and locators may have to be managed differently, and I would not expe= ct > this differentiation to be made at the level of the namespace. In other > words, while this path will give us a very general mapping system (a good > thing) that can be used as part of a control plane, I don't think this > would constitute a control plane in itself itself, so this part of the > charter would need to be adjusted. > I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing. @ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the located is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we will rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespace. However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume this is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic. @ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for forwarding on L3 and L2. Is this what you had in mind? > - On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe > more to Tom's point of view. However, we will need to be able distinguis= h > the sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information > (i.e., while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be)= . > > Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mappings need to be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature. > --- Alex > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM > To: Padma Pillay-Esnault > Cc: ideas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charte= r > Proposal > > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault < > padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello IDEAS > > > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > > and just a few weeks away. > > > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from > > you regarding the scope of work and your interests. > > > > Proposed Charter > > > > > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation > > separation protocols. > > > > > > > > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly > > being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous > > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context > > aware applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices > > and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol en= d > to end. > > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. > > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and > > operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > > > > > > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > > specifically these services will include: > > > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and ass= ociated > > identifiers > > > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > > > > > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and > access-control. > > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > > > > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > > policy control, and security aspects. > > > Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natura= l > two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers > that synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard i= t > 2) A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the > master for every use. Between the servers a protocol is needed with goal = of > synchronizing the distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal > is to manage the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache > management will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull > techniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push > would be re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant > differences in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one = to > make secure since requests can be validated using a nonce. > > Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope > is. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like > DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create > their own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and = if > they want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so > by a private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach). > > Tom > > > > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > > that they provide. > > > > > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface > > interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t > work. > > > > > > > > WG deliverables include: > > > > Overall architecture > > > > > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > > > -Problem statement > > > > -Use cases > > > > -Requirements > > > > ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Milestones > > > > TBD > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ideas mailing list > > Ideas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > --001a1148d978038855054fc63c2a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alex=C2=A0

Comments see <PPE><= /div>

On Wed, May = 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com<= /a>> wrote:
FWIW, two comments = on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bingyang, the other by Tom= :

- On mapping name spaces between each other:=C2=A0 At one level this is tru= e, we could phrase it that way.=C2=A0 However, this implies there is no dis= tinction between locators, identifiers, etc.=C2=A0 There would be merely &q= uot;name spaces" (of possibly different type), and locators would be t= reated like "names".=C2=A0 If we go this route, we need to be awa= re of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniqueness requirement.=C2=A0 Dependin= g on the coordinate system used for the locators, uniqueness may not always= be a given.=C2=A0 Another difference concerns how names come into being - = different for a name (that is assigned, or that is registered) from a "= ;coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and locators may have to be manag= ed differently, and I would not expect this differentiation to be made at t= he level of the namespace.=C2=A0 =C2=A0In other words, while this path will= give us a very general mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as p= art of a control plane, I don't think this would constitute a control p= lane in itself itself, so this part of the charter would need to be adjuste= d.

<PPE> I tend to agree that mak= ing it general is a good thing.=C2=A0

@ Alex If I = understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the located is base= d on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we will rely on. = However this may not be the case if we use another namespace.
How= ever, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume this is = broken as forwarding would not be deterministic.

@ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for fo= rwarding on L3 and L2.
- On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe = more to Tom's point of view.=C2=A0 However, we will need to be able dis= tinguish the sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming infor= mation (i.e., while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might no= t be).

--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.= ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: idea= s@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter = Proposal

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08= PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma= .ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello IDEAS
>
> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away.
>
> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from<= br> > you regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>
> Proposed Charter
>
>
>
> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the
> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93l= ocation
> separation protocols.
>
>
>
> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly
> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context=
> aware applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of de= vices
> and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol e= nd to end.
> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicat= ions.
> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and
> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >
>
>
> The working group will specify an overall architecture for=C2=A0 a com= mon
> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More=
> specifically these services will include:
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 registration and lifecycle management of id= entities and associated
> identifiers
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for grouping,
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies
>
> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for metadata.
>
> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that=
> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.=
>
>
>
> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-co= ntrol.
> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.
>
>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management,<= br> > policy control, and security aspects.
>
Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natural = two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers th= at synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2)= A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the mas= ter for every use. Between the servers a protocol is needed with goal of sy= nchronizing the distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is = to manage the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache manage= ment will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull techn= iques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would be= re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant difference= s in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secu= re since requests can be validated using a nonce.

Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope is.= Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like
DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create their= own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if they= want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a = private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach).

Tom

>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services<= br> > that they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface
> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other releva= nt work.
>
>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas=
>

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

--001a1148d978038855054fc63c2a-- From nobody Wed May 17 23:35:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C35E126C25 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:35:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25vZkv_2pqfN for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x232.google.com (mail-wr0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 850C5126CBF for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x232.google.com with SMTP id l50so25755335wrc.3 for ; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:30:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cCKoLHWHlawJT24YOZ4LXyRakJhrSjWCoZ5j//Ewnxk=; b=UoSQoSrjJVCiy0gNpl1QLaf8MuWQSOuvol3udImv4uM0cEEucsKciK79DKJMZFwRPo jWicA5dx/ivlX8OU6ghxx+7ObymeWG86YVeJVp8TBwB6+VQvFDWuHtXLNCsBTeFeyxwV KicXcRX3m/gWnd/t2qnbXKfQiStBHXfm1TYYOUQfeNRVkov4Shi6IJNFnOsXLdM0/H4I CF7cIoV8wmWffB2acNYQkClirTAtTPqNQ5xdoOzqMjXTmbOdTrIA2YzuUiaEviKnPO2n orgZFolO+l6NiiDRJLHHcJ3feOEhg5rOK9afie2pilzHeGKL6YJ+8U0zBIKQGm3cGfNS C2MQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cCKoLHWHlawJT24YOZ4LXyRakJhrSjWCoZ5j//Ewnxk=; b=b9XeTTijp4WnF3gkUQCuAEFW7qyWKIHbvQmHGbnxE/MGdM9cDdc7JQ8R0+d92p9cfQ fahY+G5Gu2BVDUxoZh6WEdcJ3t78Hr/vCYSNc+w//B/fc42XM/1Z69NRe/VGYw44NBay feDrKvfqeL9Fh5k4h04VJFEpe7Sywi8Y7mThepOG7sbgqfD0i7Io5V5f41KWMFb6akuS v5weiNdTY0UArgbk/nDp+kOTFPtHipA0F9k+fK5ttcj71QJw3y2oXfpWieX8ZE3Jxtiq OnTo4yYplm6lVx86N9xgaSX6W2NZZy4xjHlHrZdj/J0+HvqAdJYuvspW0eg9Fea9O+gE v4QA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBFbMRGjuqyqX4654auBsxd4fK61mxvy22zf3JWBJxgpxzHkcV5 q1xdwBy9fggK9qL1q6PwU5X51H83PA== X-Received: by 10.223.174.209 with SMTP id y75mr1462318wrc.82.1495089036139; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:30:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2017 23:30:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 23:30:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dino Farinacci Cc: Declan Ma , ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114767fce822f0054fc68a76" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 06:35:27 -0000 --001a114767fce822f0054fc68a76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dino Thank you for the review and feedback. See my comments below On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Dino Farinacci wrote= : > > Padma, > > > > This is really a good start. > > I agree as well. But have one question on the opening sentence. > > > > >> Hello IDEAS > >> > >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away. > >> > >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > >> > >> Proposed Charter > >> > >> > >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loc= ation > separation protocols. > > So is IDEAs: > > (1) Creating the framework? > Ideas should define an architecture which is then the basis for a framework. Does that make sense? > > (2) Defining protocols to implement? > The control plane itself may be two parts, one interaction between the infrastructure and a data plane protocol. The other between components of the grids itself for example depending on how we do the leaking between the different local grids as discussed in Tom's email. > (3) Does implement mean =E2=80=9Cdeploy=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ccreate mecha= nisms=E2=80=9D. > Actually, the intent was rather to say that the framework with provide open interface for an id-loc to interact with it. These interfaces should be defined and implemented. > > Shouldn=E2=80=99t you state that the working group will use solutions fro= m other > working groups? > IMHO we should reuse what we can but at this point we need to refine the requirements to find out how to use these existing solutions or whether they should be tweaked. This is covered here < *Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work.*> Thanks Padma > Thanks, > Dino > > --001a114767fce822f0054fc68a76 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dino

Thank you for the review and fe= edback.

See my comments below <PPE>

On Wed, May 17, 2017= at 9:26 AM, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> wrote:
> Padma,
>
> This is really a good start.

I agree as well. But have one question on the opening sentence.

>
>> Hello IDEAS
>>
>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/20= 17 and just a few weeks away.
>>
>> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to ha= ve input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from yo= u regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>>
>> Proposed Charter
>>
>>
>> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the= framework=C2=A0 to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80= =93location separation protocols.

So is IDEAs:

(1) Creating the framework?

<PPE>= Ideas should define an architecture which is then the basis for a framewor= k. Does that make sense?

(2) Defining protocols to implement?

&l= t;PPE> The control plane itself may be two parts, one interaction betwee= n the infrastructure and a data plane protocol. The other between component= s of the grids itself for example depending on how we do the leaking betwee= n the different local grids as discussed in Tom's email.

=

(3) Does implement mean =E2=80=9Cdeploy=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ccreate mechani= sms=E2=80=9D.

<PPE> Actually, the= intent was rather to say that the framework with provide open interface fo= r an id-loc to interact with it. These interfaces should be defined and imp= lemented.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

Shouldn=E2=80=99t you state that the working group will use solutions from = other working groups?

<PPE> IMHO = we should reuse what we can but at this point we need to refine the require= ments to find out how to use these existing solutions or whether they shoul= d be tweaked.
This is covered here=C2=A0
<=C2=A0
=

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Work= ing Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other rele= vant work.>




Thanks
Padma

=


Thanks,
Dino


--001a114767fce822f0054fc68a76-- From nobody Thu May 18 00:59:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A194B129C5F for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 00:58:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1IovXvVfXgRf for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 00:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 197FA129C4C for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 00:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DGV67504; Thu, 18 May 2017 07:53:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.86.210.35) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 18 May 2017 08:53:03 +0100 Received: from SZXEMI508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.10.154]) by szxemi412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.86.210.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 18 May 2017 15:52:51 +0800 From: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" To: Alexander Clemm , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaJe/PNFODRoUWJ3h66M6A23qH4JO0AgABwmICAAIYrAIAAo0Kp Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 07:52:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C1CE72EE84AF224E94DA21AE134209EE01048693SZXEMI508MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.591D52E1.0077, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.10.154, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: e9517e5a2b44aa4388ca69a1cf5e0b73 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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I think that mapping from overlay&= nbsp;to underlay is a good use case in&n= bsp;virtualization environment. It can be l2 = to l3, l3 to l3, or anything that i= s valuable in practice.

Btw, topology is a little vague, since i= t can be physical topology as well as&nb= sp;virtual network topology.

Best
Bingyang (Bryan)
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Padma Pillay-Esnault
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Alexander Clemm<alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA Tom Herbert<tom@herbertland.com>;ide= as@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your inpu= t Needed on a Charter Proposal
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2017-05-18 14:14:29

Hi Alex 

Comments see <PPE>

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm= <alexand= er.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:
FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bingyan= g, the other by Tom:

- On mapping name spaces between each other:  At one level this is tru= e, we could phrase it that way.  However, this implies there is no dis= tinction between locators, identifiers, etc.  There would be merely &q= uot;name spaces" (of possibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names".  If we go this route, we nee= d to be aware of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniqueness requirement.&nbs= p; Depending on the coordinate system used for the locators, uniqueness may= not always be a given.  Another difference concerns how names come into being - different for a name (that is assigned, or tha= t is registered) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and = locators may have to be managed differently, and I would not expect this di= fferentiation to be made at the level of the namespace.   In other words, while this path will give us a very= general mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as part of a contro= l plane, I don't think this would constitute a control plane in itself itse= lf, so this part of the charter would need to be adjusted.

<PPE> I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing.&nb= sp;

@ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today th= e located is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which = we will rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespa= ce.
However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume = this is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic.

@ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for = forwarding on L3 and L2.
Is this what you had in mind?
 
- On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe more= to Tom's point of view.  However, we will need to be able distinguish= the sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information (= i.e., while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be).

<PPE> Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mapp= ings need to be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature.
 
--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.= ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: idea= s@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter = Proposal
On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <= ;padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote= :
> Hello IDEAS
>
> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away.
>
> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from<= br> > you regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>
> Proposed Charter
>
>
>
> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the
> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=A8Clocati= on
> separation protocols.
>
>
>
> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly
> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context=
> aware applications and security.  Due to the diverse nature of de= vices
> and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol e= nd to end.
> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicat= ions.
> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and
> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >
>
>
> The working group will specify an overall architecture for  a com= mon
> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.  More=
> specifically these services will include:
>
> =A1=A4      registration and lifecycle management of id= entities and associated
> identifiers
>
> =A1=A4      identifier binding to location(s),
>
> =A1=A4      support for grouping,
>
> =A1=A4      definition and enforcement of policies
>
> =A1=A4      support for metadata.
>
> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that=
> allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.=
>
>
>
> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-co= ntrol.
> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.
>
>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management,<= br> > policy control, and security aspects.
>
Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natural = two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers th= at synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2)= A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the serve= rs a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the distributed table. F= or the host cache protocol the goal is to manage the cache and keep it up t= o date as much a possible. Cache management will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull te= chniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would= be re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant differe= nces in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since requests can be valid= ated using a nonce.

Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope is.= Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like
DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create their= own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if they= want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a = private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach).

Tom

>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services<= br> > that they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface
> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other releva= nt work.
>
>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
>

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

--_000_C1CE72EE84AF224E94DA21AE134209EE01048693SZXEMI508MBSchi_-- From nobody Thu May 18 15:17:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A49B1294E1 for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 15:17:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGlF4R30gVB5 for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59FDF129577 for ; Thu, 18 May 2017 15:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DGW82165; Thu, 18 May 2017 22:11:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 18 May 2017 23:11:38 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.229]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 18 May 2017 15:11:33 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaMMavYZ1dllUWY8vR2r/Nz3aH5IGIA///2QzCAAQCAAIAAlWug Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 22:11:32 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAEF58@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAEF58SJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.591E1C1C.0148, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 370d666a4272636a82bd0ea4cd42a1a8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GbRUy-d8ghk6 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 00:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 890EC12EC3B for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 00:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2E52C206DD; Fri, 19 May 2017 09:09:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.61]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 01D551C0075; Fri, 19 May 2017 09:09:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b91c:ea2c:ac8a:7462%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 19 May 2017 09:09:22 +0200 From: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaDuU9MmPcvyUyxxcNMHLc8KqH7PIDg Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 07:09:21 +0000 Message-ID: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 07:14:18 -0000 --_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNClRoYW5rcyB0byBQYWRtYSBmb3IgdGhpcyBwcm9wb3NhbC4gQSBmZXcgY29t bWVudHMgaW5saW5lIGZyb20gbXkgc2lkZS4NCg0KW3NuaXBdDQpQcm9wb3NlZCBDaGFydGVyDQoN ClRoZSBJZGVudGl0eSBFbmFibGVkIE5ldHdvcmtzIChJREVBUykgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBmb2N1 c2VzIG9uIHRoZSBmcmFtZXdvcmsgIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCBhIGNvbW1vbiBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5l IGZvciBpZGVudGlmaWVy4oCTbG9jYXRpb24gc2VwYXJhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbHMuDQoNClRoZSBp ZGVudGlmaWVyLWVuYWJsZWQgc29sdXRpb25zIGFuZCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgYXJlIGluY3JlYXNp bmdseSBiZWluZyBjb25zaWRlcmVkIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgbW9iaWxpdHkgW0NKXSBzY2VuYXJpb3Mg YWNyb3NzIGhldGVyb2dlbmVvdXMgYWNjZXNzIG5ldHdvcmtzLiBMaWtld2lzZSwgSW50ZXJuZXQg b2YgVGhpbmdzIGFuZCBNYWNoaW5lIHRvIE1hY2hpbmUgKE0yTSlbQ0pdICBzZXJ2aWNlcywgW0NK 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id liXajRIeYXUp for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 02:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D442129BDE for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 01:59:29 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.38,363,1491256800"; d="scan'208,217";a="273813532" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.241.1.255]) ([37.168.112.103]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 May 2017 10:59:27 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-095D3703-AA43-42B8-82C4-EEA28B3A15CA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Damien Saucez Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:22:50 +0200 Message-Id: References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> Cc: Alexander Clemm , Padma Pillay-Esnault , Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: To: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14E304) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 09:06:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail-095D3703-AA43-42B8-82C4-EEA28B3A15CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 18 May 2017, at 09:52, Liubingyang (Bryan) wro= te: >=20 > I think that mapping from overlay to underlay is a good use case in virtua= lization environment. It can be l2 to l3, l3 to l3, or anything that is valu= able in practice. >=20 > Btw, topology is a little vague, since it can be physical topology as well= as virtual network topology. >=20 > Best > Bingyang (Bryan) > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Padma Pillay-Esnault > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Alexander Clemm > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A Tom Herbert;ideas@ietf.or= g > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input N= eeded on a Charter Proposal > =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2017-05-18 14:14:29 >=20 > Hi Alex=20 >=20 > Comments see >=20 >> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm wrote: >> FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bingy= ang, the other by Tom: >>=20 >> - On mapping name spaces between each other: At one level this is true, w= e could phrase it that way. However, this implies there is no distinction b= etween locators, identifiers, etc. There would be merely "name spaces" (of p= ossibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names". If we g= o this route, we need to be aware of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniquene= ss requirement. Depending on the coordinate system used for the locators, u= niqueness may not always be a given. Another difference concerns how names c= ome into being - different for a name (that is assigned, or that is register= ed) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and locators may have to be m= anaged differently, and I would not expect this differentiation to be made a= t the level of the namespace. In other words, while this path will give us= a very general mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as part of a c= ontrol plane, I don't think this would constitute a control plane in itself i= tself, so this part of the charter would need to be adjusted. >=20 > I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing.=20 >=20 > @ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the lo= cated is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we wi= ll rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespace. > However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume this= is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic. >=20 > @ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for forw= arding on L3 and L2. > Is this what you had in mind? > =20 >> - On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe mo= re to Tom's point of view. However, we will need to be able distinguish the= sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information (i.e.,= while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be). >>=20 > Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mappings need t= o be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature. > =20 >> --- Alex >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert >> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM >> To: Padma Pillay-Esnault >> Cc: ideas@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charte= r Proposal >>=20 >> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: >> > Hello IDEAS >> > >> > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >> > and just a few weeks away. >> > >> > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have >> > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from >> > you regarding the scope of work and your interests. >> > >> > Proposed Charter >> > >> > >> > >> > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the >> > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation >> > separation protocols. >> > >> > >> > >> > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly >> > being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous >> > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context >> > aware applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices >> > and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol en= d to end. >> > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicati= ons. >> > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and >> > operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >> > >> > >> > >> > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common >> > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More >> > specifically these services will include: >> > >> > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and ass= ociated >> > identifiers >> > >> > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >> > >> > =C2=B7 support for grouping, >> > >> > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >> > >> > =C2=B7 support for metadata. >> > >> > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that >> > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >> > >> > >> > >> > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level >> > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-con= trol. >> > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >> > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >> > >> > >> > >> > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >> > >> > >> > >> > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, >> > policy control, and security aspects. >> > >> Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natura= l two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers t= hat synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2)= A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the mast= er for every use. Between the servers a protocol is needed with goal of sync= hronizing the distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is to m= anage the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache management w= ill break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull techniques would= be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would be re-directs,= cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant differences in security= between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since reque= sts can be validated using a nonce. >>=20 >> Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope i= s. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like >> DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create the= ir own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if the= y want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a p= rivate agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach). >>=20 Hello, I don't think we should aim at finding only a global mapping table but inste= ad propose a method that allows to be either local (private) or global (publ= ic). Also we should consider the case of migration from a local only to a g= lobal mapping. For example one start it's mapping in a DC then because of ne= w usage of the DC then has to become public and global. The change of scope s= hould be such that it does not require any change from the one changing. May= be we will have to explicitly indicate the scope of the mappings such that i= t allows to provide policy based filtering of them (something as powerful as= BGP extended communities would be great).=20 Also as it is likely that we will not have one solution fits all, therefore w= e have to consider the seamless merging of mapping systems. For example one m= ay use a push approach while another may use a pull one. For that I guess th= at it will be useful to format the mapping information such that it can be c= arried as-is by all the flavors of the solutions we will propose or at least= propose an automatic translation of the information.=20 Thanks=20 Damien Saucez >> Tom >>=20 >> > >> > >> > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >> > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services >> > that they provide. >> > >> > >> > >> > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface >> > interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >> > >> > >> > >> > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working >> > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t work. >> > >> > >> > >> > WG deliverables include: >> > >> > Overall architecture >> > >> > >> > >> > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >> > >> > >> > >> > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >> > >> > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >> > >> > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >> > >> > -Problem statement >> > >> > -Use cases >> > >> > -Requirements >> > >> > ..... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Milestones >> > >> > TBD >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ideas mailing list >> > Ideas@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >> > >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas --Apple-Mail-095D3703-AA43-42B8-82C4-EEA28B3A15CA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 18 Ma= y 2017, at 09:52, Liubingyang (Bryan) <liubingyang@huawei.com> wrote:

I think that mapping from overlay&n= bsp;to underlay is a good use case in&nbs= p;virtualization environment. It can be l2 to&= nbsp;l3, l3 to l3, or anything that is&nb= sp;valuable in practice.

Btw, topology is a little vague, since it=  can be physical topology as well as = ;virtual network topology.

Best
Bingyang (Bryan)
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Padma Pillay-Esnault
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Alexander Clemm<alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
=
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A Tom Herbert<tom@herbertland.com>;ideas@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Y= our input Needed on a Charter Proposal
=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2017-05-18 14:14:29

Hi Alex 

Comments see <PPE>

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <alexande= r.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:
FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bingyang= , the other by Tom:

- On mapping name spaces between each other:  At one level this is true= , we could phrase it that way.  However, this implies there is no disti= nction between locators, identifiers, etc.  There would be merely "name= spaces" (of possibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names".  If we go this route, we need to be awa= re of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniqueness requirement.  Depending= on the coordinate system used for the locators, uniqueness may not always b= e a given.  Another difference concerns how names come into being - different for a name (that is assigned, or that= is registered) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and locators may= have to be managed differently, and I would not expect this differentiation= to be made at the level of the namespace.   In other words, while this path will give us a very g= eneral mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as part of a control p= lane, I don't think this would constitute a control plane in itself itself, s= o this part of the charter would need to be adjusted.

<PPE> I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing.&nbs= p;

@ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the= located is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we= will rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespace.=
However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume t= his is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic.

@ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for f= orwarding on L3 and L2.
Is this what you had in mind?
 
- On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe more t= o Tom's point of view.  However, we will need to be able distinguish th= e sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information (i.e.= , while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be).

<PPE> Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mappi= ngs need to be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature.
=
 
--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.i= etf@gmail.com>
Cc: ideas= @ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter P= roposal
On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <= padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:<= br> > Hello IDEAS
>
> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away.
>
> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from > you regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>
> Proposed Charter
>
>
>
> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the
> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation
> separation protocols.
>
>
>
> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly
> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous
= > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context<= br> > aware applications and security.  Due to the diverse nature of dev= ices
> and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol en= d to end.
> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicati= ons.
> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and
> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions.
= >
>
>
> The working group will specify an overall architecture for  a comm= on
> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.  More<= br> > specifically these services will include:
>
> =C2=B7      registration and lifecycle management of ide= ntities and associated
> identifiers
>
> =C2=B7      identifier binding to location(s),
>
> =C2=B7      support for grouping,
>
> =C2=B7      definition and enforcement of policies
>
> =C2=B7      support for metadata.
>
> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that<= br> > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.<= br> >
>
>
> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-con= trol.
> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.
>
>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects.
>
Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natural t= wo level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers that= synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2) A m= eans for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the server= s a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the distributed table. For= the host cache protocol the goal is to manage the cache and keep it up to d= ate as much a possible. Cache management will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull tec= hniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would b= e re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant difference= s in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since requests can be valida= ted using a nonce.

Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope is. I= s the goal to have one public mapping table system (like
DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create their o= wn mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if they wa= nt to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a priv= ate agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach).

Hello,

I don't think we should aim at finding only= a global mapping table but instead propose a method that allows to be eithe= r local (private) or global (public).  Also we should consider the case= of migration from a local only to a global mapping. For example one start i= t's mapping in a DC then because of new usage of the DC then has to become p= ublic and global. The change of scope should be such that it does not requir= e any change from the one changing. Maybe we will have to explicitly indicat= e the scope of the mappings such that it allows to provide policy based filt= ering of them (something as powerful as  BGP extended communities would= be great). 

Also as it is likely that we will= not have one solution fits all, therefore we have to consider the seamless m= erging of mapping systems. For example one may use a push approach while ano= ther may use a pull one. For that I guess that it will be useful to format t= he mapping information such that it can be carried as-is by all the flavors o= f the solutions we will propose or at least propose an automatic translation= of the information. 

Thanks 
<= br>
Damien Saucez


Tom

>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the
= > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > that they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface
> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol.
= >
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working
= > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t work.
>
>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki
= >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
>

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

____________________= ___________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/ideas
= --Apple-Mail-095D3703-AA43-42B8-82C4-EEA28B3A15CA-- From nobody Fri May 19 03:36:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9569F12947E for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:36:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YH1YS1KKH_fp for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9868412EC47 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id u75so57207390qka.3 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:30:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ESfRJSZ3t6ezv2BsENgoJX9ylyyOfJvVItvi+tmnWKQ=; b=S+zjzUC/5eArpUAuh6zWNY65D0INayylPOF7uJzuwlbzfUiApuDSJizmSLaBEuflqT fgVmJxp3GEFQxZfmvHzkDoIKbPIq5/YioPFYVnVTwksCTlrtO/yjDiz0/ly/VnAw4rL/ j/T9oGczwTOTOZa/wb1my5U8fBZajEl2JgOq0wk9VEs6plLk8btHZiAdQi28hXERaK9h wM45kQXE5Gx4hH0ueBXGamCnJtKLSjiRWKucGYRybbLQYeguBoPBmOPoeY2mR+9hWprv Zt9h3uIB3HVRe3QfzL+F4qkjfHr/d9CNc8dpGQojyCDdR8UkfDDPEOw48jNQ/483N6aU wrkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ESfRJSZ3t6ezv2BsENgoJX9ylyyOfJvVItvi+tmnWKQ=; b=JRNwV38qIXq+GZC2RCDvCfpy5bswSwoGjid332DmINykQa9y15z0tMTjK2xwFbg249 IYnWK92ca6WSbO9WpFSXcBIsDHpfMPm5jkEKUi5VTOiMBjykmrwY8UGFJXDta/KHN8x2 wNnYKznpKwU/G3qW2kitUqmnfkDKW0xdV/bK1VApDRA/05TzQo81QgxJaBuCLzYW8QvD /pbXNJn6y9MFw7pxMeDH3/5ecEadeJ7JdlMSCxW2+KDKZWOFwjkhgoV2rqahRakObbE4 xzcBHjh+VEB0yzWhkmvXGKdbBvtwsg4cWAs0xDO3ZWbaFUzIR5cz70Hu4iEFOcjcON+u js+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBTtWGmDg8bCeQNpbysqV9prS5Qt2lfEggUTwAxiltK6gLRzz9s qNrJJ5Tg+kDcIJyHajH2bWNL30upiosYA7k= X-Received: by 10.55.18.91 with SMTP id c88mr8619813qkh.143.1495189826653; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:30:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.104.42 with HTTP; Fri, 19 May 2017 03:30:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Albert Cabellos Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 12:30:26 +0200 Message-ID: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:36:38 -0000 Hi Please see my comments inline: On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hello IDEAS > > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and > just a few weeks away. > > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t > from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > regarding the scope of work and your interests. > Thanks for putting this together > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framew= ork > to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation > protocols. > > I see some inconsistencies, here it is clear that the WG will work on a 'control plane', while below it states 'the overall architecture'. There are very little mentions to the database storing the information (e.g, Mapping System). > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to e= nd. > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operation= al > hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > >From the text I understand that mobility is central to IDEAS, I think that mobility is a relevant function but ID-enabled solutions have additional functions which are of interest for other use-cases. > > > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common cont= rol > plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese > services will include: > control-plane is part of the overall architecture, we need to specify this. > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that al= low > clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > > Another interesting item is how to deal with the distribution of the ID-sta= te: - Assuming you are (logically) centralizing the ID state you may want/need to push/pull the relevant state to the data-plane elements to improve performance. On top of that and in some cases the state may have relevance regionally (to a few clustered data-plane elements), in this case you may want/need to push/pull this state to a regional server for performance. This results in state consistency issues and a solution needs to be standardized. - The most common case is where the state is 'read' by the data-plane elements from the Mapping System (either push or pull), but we have found that 'writing' state from the data-plane elements to the Mapping System (or whatever you may call it) is a key aspect of ID architectures. A relevant example is the Map-Register message in LISP, which does precisely this: write state. When the data-plane elements are allowed to write state then you have to deal with state consistency, race conditions, etc. A standard solution for this must be produced. > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > Security is a very broad word that pretty much includes confidentiality, accountability, access-control, etc. We need to narrow this or leave it wide open to then analyze which properties we want. In my view privacy is a very relevant one, particularly when you are targeting mobility end-to-end, confidentiality seems harder to achieve as a whole. Albert > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, pol= icy > control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > ..... > > > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > From nobody Fri May 19 13:59:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B45129B4B for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1-3k83JpMgv6 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x231.google.com (mail-pf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEC161296D2 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 9so44977150pfj.1 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vjWO76B96JYT9KO+Mz0ZTa9ob6WSr3Fqjf7jAxVOKDc=; b=KcFsU9Ld0emS906ib9tZXjEWtq8GJG00gg3RekpZtqnIqiPSDQq6kbrm1p8YwEHrKl 3HiRNr68CsgHZIyC57D11F/1COtY/gv6jUfoJFluEvw/20o+21f5o9Dk1Dg5m03TvZXD MNFpsnQngbSlgdqDWvgKu1PXXuyH19JzcB0Pj12bGxgNYeWPocL7yUQKusG0FmQ8UZD+ aDHBLVMU0vh+ax95/nQFpdWcSNdpmnG1vSir7oE3QZ89GkCyEb3t0taM7mq9Qsce+LVr 9Sb9DOzQSNJwFKIRiArYpdn/Q2R5QVU+U9pOo7+Z03VXHh+Mgn1GzBtw9ykicG4Wh5Bk m6WA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vjWO76B96JYT9KO+Mz0ZTa9ob6WSr3Fqjf7jAxVOKDc=; b=h8GJokenqcZpJQ5sD1xBSpIAe3yDgddcAv9xUIC8F7182zjUxjHZTw4hEYsXRuOir5 hDdPam4AQ/pw2z9COA8dfMP8gKPswK9I6uT6Zx/HYD8iB3Gb/22+TGvTC4cdssOTc5Zp h6poIpeF4JymyQuCeyi/xax0bC18PChE5WAoo2Tp69lDeY1C+gdCLCOYdzxw9NSdhSKh WcdKlo0UIG7EfZxzgQZ9objWDuwaOYSACCo/AKJVqpYo3ku8mUa5/uGijxBAV030kFUN AH3M/ErxUEka3Bwga3o1EOApRM6VyyAKxNPv9Gsz79d4bRUjC0ViKjZuG0wNPQsOgGZA x7WA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDoSWKrM1Q0Ng+xp408iM1gsJVkc7ScvmCp8Cdb+nSILqsYGmB0 Fgaia6jf4BcwCYXsvog= X-Received: by 10.98.212.18 with SMTP id a18mr12688824pfh.28.1495227568139; Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.31.241.96] ([216.9.110.7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p13sm17853125pfl.52.2017.05.19.13.59.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:25 -0700 Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Albert Cabellos Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 20:59:31 -0000 Hi Albert and all Thanks for your feedback and comments=20 I will respin a new version with all the comments and feedback Thanks Padma=20 Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 03:30, Albert Cabellos wro= te: >=20 > Hi >=20 > Please see my comments inline: >=20 > On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault > wrote: >> Hello IDEAS >>=20 >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 and >> just a few weeks away. >>=20 >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have inpu= t >> from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you >> regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>=20 >=20 > Thanks for putting this together >=20 >> Proposed Charter >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framew= ork >> to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation >> protocols. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > I see some inconsistencies, here it is clear that the WG will work on > a 'control plane', while below it states 'the overall architecture'. > There are very little mentions to the database storing the information > (e.g, Mapping System). Ok >> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being >> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access >> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware >> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and >> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to e= nd. >> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. >> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and operation= al >> hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >>=20 >=20 > =46rom the text I understand that mobility is central to IDEAS, I think > that mobility is a relevant function but ID-enabled solutions have > additional functions which are of interest for other use-cases. >>=20 Agree=20 >>=20 >> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common cont= rol >> plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese >> services will include: >>=20 >=20 > control-plane is part of the overall architecture, we need to specify this= . >=20 Ok >> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated >> identifiers >>=20 >> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>=20 >> =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>=20 >> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>=20 >> =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>=20 >> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that al= low >> clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Another interesting item is how to deal with the distribution of the ID-st= ate: >=20 > - Assuming you are (logically) centralizing the ID state you may > want/need to push/pull the relevant state to the data-plane elements > to improve performance. On top of that and in some cases the state may > have relevance regionally (to a few clustered data-plane elements), in > this case you may want/need to push/pull this state to a regional > server for performance. This results in state consistency issues and a > solution needs to be standardized. >=20 > - The most common case is where the state is 'read' by the data-plane > elements from the Mapping System (either push or pull), but we have > found that 'writing' state from the data-plane elements to the Mapping > System (or whatever you may call it) is a key aspect of ID > architectures. A relevant example is the Map-Register message in LISP, > which does precisely this: write state. When the data-plane elements > are allowed to write state then you have to deal with state > consistency, race conditions, etc. A standard solution for this must > be produced. >=20 Will come back on this agree mostly=20 >>=20 >> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of >> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control.= >> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Security is a very broad word that pretty much includes > confidentiality, accountability, access-control, etc. We need to > narrow this or leave it wide open to then analyze which properties we > want. >=20 > In my view privacy is a very relevant one, particularly when you are > targeting mobility end-to-end, confidentiality seems harder to achieve > as a whole. >=20 Agree > Albert >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, pol= icy >> control, and security aspects. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t >> they provide. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s >> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s >> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> WG deliverables include: >>=20 >> Overall architecture >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>=20 >> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>=20 >> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>=20 >> -Problem statement >>=20 >> -Use cases >>=20 >> -Requirements >>=20 >> ..... >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Milestones >>=20 >> TBD >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>=20 From nobody Fri May 19 14:12:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9021296B3 for ; 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Fri, 19 May 2017 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.31.241.96] ([216.9.110.15]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p62sm13852376pfp.48.2017.05.19.14.12.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 May 2017 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6C7B289F-8955-406D-998B-0F3F64914C39 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:12:13 -0700 Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: christian.jacquenet@orange.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 21:12:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6C7B289F-8955-406D-998B-0F3F64914C39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian=20 Thanks for your review and feedback Will integrate some of this when I respi= n the new version and will clarify, Thanks Padma=20 Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 00:09, wrote: >=20 > Dear all, > =20 > Thanks to Padma for this proposal. A few comments inline from my side. > =20 > [snip] > Proposed Charter > =20 > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the framewo= rk to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location sepa= ration protocols. > =20 > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being c= onsidered to support mobility [CJ] scenarios across heterogeneous access net= works. Likewise, Internet of Things and Machine to Machine (M2M)[CJ] servic= es, [CJ] as well as context aware applications[CJ] can take advantage of id= entifier-enabled solutions. The enforcement of security[CJ] policies (regar= dless of the nature of the service) can also benefit from IE features. Due t= o the diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not be possible to d= eploy a single protocol end to end. > [CJ] Not sure I get the last part of the above sentence =E2=80=93 did you m= ean a single identifier/location separation protocol? If so, I would elabora= te and also briefly indicate this is because of likely different naming and a= ddressing schemes, such as typical, often technology-specific, IoT services.= > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communications= . > [CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the above sentence. Did you mean: =E2=80=9C= A common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of th= e various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between these hete= rogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I guess I would rephrase. > Also, I think I would add a few words about negotiation capabilities that m= ay take place between mapping systems operated by different entities. > Moreover, a common control plane will [CJ] smooth the technical and oper= ational hurdles to deployment and interoperability of [CJ] heterogeneous sol= utions. > [CJ] Not sure a common control plane is sufficient to address all the tech= nical and operational hurdles hence the proposed rewording. > =20 Will clarify=20 > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common contr= ol plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically th= ese services will include: > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associ= ated identifiers > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > [CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability of facilitating communications wi= thin communities (of users/devices, whether they are in motion or not, and w= hich use different naming schemes)? If so, I would elaborate and I also thin= k this implies some negotiation capabilities (clearance to join a community,= exchanging mapping information between different Mapping Systems). > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > [CJ] I think we should be specific about what such policies look like =E2=80= =93 forwarding/routing, traffic engineering, security, QoS? A combination th= ereof? > =C2=B7 support for metadata.=20 > [CJ] You may want to elaborate on the usage of such metadata. Ok > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that all= ow clients to communicate[CJ] /negotiate with that infrastructure will be co= vered. > =20 > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of co= ntrol for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The w= orking group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized st= orage of data and privacy considerations. > [CJ] Not sure I understand the above two sentences. Did you mean: =E2=80=9C= The common control plane is meant to provide hard guarantees about identity i= nformation, among other features. Such guarantees will facilitate the design= and the operation of secured, trustworthy, and robust communication service= s regardless of the underlying networked technologies and the various addres= sing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into account the need f= or such hard guarantees for the specification of the common control plane, w= hile making sure an appropriate balance can be found between the amount of i= nformation that need to be maintained by the common control plane and the sc= alability/performance of the proposed approach.=E2=80=9D? > =20 will clarify=20 > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > =20 > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, poli= cy control, and security aspects. > =20 > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the manage= ment aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services that they pr= ovide. > =20 > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interactions= between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > =20 > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups= to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > [CJ] I think the WG should also capitalize the effort conducted by the abo= ve WGs, besides interop considerations. > =20 Sure > WG deliverables include: > Overall architecture > =20 > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > =20 > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > -Problem statement > -Use cases > -Requirements > For the record, I won=E2=80=99t be able to attend the next Prague IETF, bu= t I=E2=80=99m willing to contribute. Also, I fully agree with Alex=E2=80=99= s latest comment about the generalization of the mapping problem. The scope n= eeds to be focused. > [CJ] Cheers, > Christian. > =20 Ok > =20 > Milestones=20 > TBD > __________________________________________________________________________= _______________________________________________ >=20 > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confide= ntielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez rec= u ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages e= lectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou= falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged in= formation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and del= ete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been= modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. --Apple-Mail-6C7B289F-8955-406D-998B-0F3F64914C39 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christian 

Thanks for your review and feedback Will integrate some of this when I= respin the new version and will clarify,


Thanks
Padma 


<= br>

Sent from my iPhone

Dear all,

 

Thanks to Padma for this proposal. A few comme= nts inline from my side.

 

[snip]

Proposed Charter

 

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the f= ramework  to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation separation protocols.

 

The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly b= eing considered to support mobility [CJ] scenarios across heterogeneous access networks. L= ikewise, Internet of Things and M= achine to Machine (M2M)[CJ]  services, [CJ] as well as context aware= applications[CJ]  can take advantage of ide= ntifier-enabled solutions. The enforcement of security[CJ]  policies (regardless of t= he nature of the service) can also benefit from IE features.  Du= e to the diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not be possible t= o deploy a single protocol end to end.

[CJ] Not sure I get the last part of the above sentence =E2=80= =93 did you mean a single identifier/location separation protocol? If so, I would elaborate and also briefly indicate this is becaus= e of likely different naming and addressing schemes, such as typical, often t= echnology-specific, IoT services.

A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communic= ations.

[CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the above sentence. Did you m= ean: =E2=80=9CA common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the various naming/addressing schemes and the comm= unication between these heterogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I guess I= would rephrase.

Also, I think I would add a few words about negotiation capab= ilities that may take place between mapping systems operated by different entities.

  Moreover, a common control plane will [CJ] smooth the technical and operational hurdles to deployment and interoperability of [CJ] heterogeneous solutions.

[CJ] Not sure a common control plane is sufficient to address= all the technical and operational hurdles hence the proposed rewording.

 

Will clarify 
<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt= :auto">

The working group will specify an overall architecture for  a c= ommon control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.  More= specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7      registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated id= entifiers

=C2=B7      identifier binding to location(s),

=C2=B7      support for grouping,

[CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability of facilitating comm= unications within communities (of users/devices, whether they are in motion or not, and which use different naming schemes)?= If so, I would elaborate and I also think this implies some negotiation cap= abilities (clearance to join a community, exchanging mapping information bet= ween different Mapping Systems).

=C2=B7      definition and enforcement of policies

[CJ] I think we should be specific about what such policies l= ook like =E2=80=93 forwarding/routing, traffic engineering, security, QoS? A combination thereof?

=C2=B7      support for metadata. 

[CJ] You may want to elaborate on the usage of such metadata.=

Ok

Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions th= at allow clients to communicate[CJ] /negotiate with that inf= rastructure will be covered.

 

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level= of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control= . The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy con= siderations.

[CJ] Not sure I understand the above two sentences. Did you m= ean: =E2=80=9CThe common control plane is meant to provide hard guarantees about identity information, among other features. Such guar= antees will facilitate the design and the operation of secured, trustworthy,= and robust communication services regardless of the underlying networked te= chnologies and the various addressing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into account the need for such har= d guarantees for the specification of the common control plane, while making= sure an appropriate balance can be found between the amount of information t= hat need to be maintained by the common control plane and the scalability/performance of the proposed ap= proach.=E2=80=9D?

 

 will clarify&nb= sp;
=

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:=

 

Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management= , policy control, and security aspects.

 

Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the m= anagement aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services that th= ey provide.

 

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface intera= ctions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol.

 

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working G= roups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work= .

[CJ] I think the WG should also capitalize the effort conduct= ed by the above WGs, besides interop considerations.

 

Sure

<= /p>

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

 

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

 

These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki<= o:p>

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

For the record, I won=E2=80=99t be able to attend the next Pr= ague IETF, but I=E2=80=99m willing to contribute. Also, I fully agree with Alex=E2=80=99s latest comment about the generalization of the ma= pping problem. The scope needs to be focused.

[CJ] Cheers,

Christian.

 

Ok

 

Milestones 

TBD

_______________________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confident=
ielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu c=
e message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages ele=
ctroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou f=
alsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged info=
rmation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delet=
e this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been m=
odified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
= --Apple-Mail-6C7B289F-8955-406D-998B-0F3F64914C39-- From nobody Fri May 19 14:15:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B135E129AC9 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiSu4lS9THcI for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84AC21296B3 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id e193so45155339pfh.0 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=zTMWCbH4B0MUk58NPlHIayq1Ij+FiMnsm30hDzviqgY=; b=UxIFsCOua4qOOxk5yLLPILEQWjbGW9FCp6UZsEU7Ytg9MOzNUb9AxY+2NjwnJ8eQTl xXERGQ2OG6+7uHHOi3Y+W2BDEGfGhJB9RINCSlZH7tlb3byJQPv7DFJ2aSaMKAagMyTU HJaKYkC5tk22GRtKIm41VNpO9ZDxEI3wuCIjvyXWtS9kruwvjJEtCjQTtAYSjLD8fHa6 P/TJqrSJTEcEUepIR9zgrnh+vSEXumwyf5LgyaD6eIKpH1a3a1p7EsqhjLqpLxKF6BRV 0SGxW7mVKKGOJY0dzLXBj2BHA+n0fYal/gLS7Xa0Cji0AXDUHVpyJvoPfkif6lkAuFam B4KQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=zTMWCbH4B0MUk58NPlHIayq1Ij+FiMnsm30hDzviqgY=; b=mzYMFu0D7XjJGTyNSKI+tePP6ZLNlnBfQMoQojrFfk7I8EEaznz5aiwp/4mHpRrA+5 dsijq7hWkGYee4qp/GzW+obXKOZUvH/ElUu/jug+EUVqQG3fLwhrdL1DV3kuaSop0+Vm Fk5FDVNUehuCMMxTYHn4awvMfYiR53cGyNozAqY7rhZ7EwI29VnnEo4J9/AezW6/S4xF KgOwSSEN80M1Y06xHDOJDGPgdDxjPh1QgAcdpNb6Q6evLcr0g29uj6xS3kC72VGQYGxu dj56SobKZbh2UgoILRL5ZfuGdJuhr2+J3Fqp65TcHowZpaTSKBZNe34XSmisVK9v4ERM kiaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDbf5bOrKMeeJ+xI9wVythRy9Ob86JKakL3RPA0m5BWudM2Y7w1 jv77adMiyo87pg== X-Received: by 10.99.114.72 with SMTP id c8mr12126786pgn.81.1495228550104; Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.31.241.96] ([216.9.110.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p62sm13858479pfp.48.2017.05.19.14.15.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-F95E2BCE-667E-410B-9EB1-E21F590E5E15 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:15:46 -0700 Cc: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" , Alexander Clemm , Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4F74E68D-3BE8-4E38-9FD6-4822B20177F0@gmail.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> To: Damien Saucez Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 21:15:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail-F95E2BCE-667E-410B-9EB1-E21F590E5E15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Damien=20 Thanks for your comments and feedback. Will integrate some and clarify. Thanks=20 Padma=20 Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 01:22, Damien Saucez wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 18 May 2017, at 09:52, Liubingyang (Bryan) wr= ote: >>=20 >> I think that mapping from overlay to underlay is a good use case in virtu= alization environment. It can be l2 to l3, l3 to l3, or anything that is val= uable in practice. >>=20 >> Btw, topology is a little vague, since it can be physical topology as wel= l as virtual network topology. >>=20 >> Best >> Bingyang (Bryan) >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Padma Pillay-Esnault >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Alexander Clemm >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A Tom Herbert;ideas@ietf.o= rg >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input= Needed on a Charter Proposal >> =E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2017-05-18 14:14:29 >>=20 >> Hi Alex=20 >>=20 >> Comments see >>=20 >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm wrote: >>> FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bing= yang, the other by Tom: >>>=20 >>> - On mapping name spaces between each other: At one level this is true,= we could phrase it that way. However, this implies there is no distinction= between locators, identifiers, etc. There would be merely "name spaces" (o= f possibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names". If w= e go this route, we need to be aware of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniqu= eness requirement. Depending on the coordinate system used for the locators= , uniqueness may not always be a given. Another difference concerns how nam= es come into being - different for a name (that is assigned, or that is regi= stered) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and locators may have to= be managed differently, and I would not expect this differentiation to be m= ade at the level of the namespace. In other words, while this path will gi= ve us a very general mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as part o= f a control plane, I don't think this would constitute a control plane in it= self itself, so this part of the charter would need to be adjusted. >>=20 >> I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing.=20 >>=20 >> @ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the l= ocated is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we w= ill rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespace. >> However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume thi= s is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic. >>=20 >> @ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for for= warding on L3 and L2. >> Is this what you had in mind? >> =20 >>> - On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe m= ore to Tom's point of view. However, we will need to be able distinguish th= e sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information (i.e.= , while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be). >>>=20 >> Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mappings need= to be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature. >> =20 >>> --- Alex >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM >>> To: Padma Pillay-Esnault >>> Cc: ideas@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Chart= er Proposal >>>=20 >>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: >>> > Hello IDEAS >>> > >>> > The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 >>> > and just a few weeks away. >>> > >>> > Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have >>> > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from >>> > you regarding the scope of work and your interests. >>> > >>> > Proposed Charter >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the >>> > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93l= ocation >>> > separation protocols. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly >>> > being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous >>> > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context= >>> > aware applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices= >>> > and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol e= nd to end. >>> > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicat= ions. >>> > Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and >>> > operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common >>> > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More >>> > specifically these services will include: >>> > >>> > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and as= sociated >>> > identifiers >>> > >>> > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), >>> > >>> > =C2=B7 support for grouping, >>> > >>> > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies >>> > >>> > =C2=B7 support for metadata. >>> > >>> > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that= >>> > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.= >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level >>> > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-co= ntrol. >>> > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the >>> > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, >>> > policy control, and security aspects. >>> > >>> Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natur= al two level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers t= hat synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2)= A means for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the mast= er for every use. Between the servers a protocol is needed with goal of sync= hronizing the distributed table. For the host cache protocol the goal is to m= anage the cache and keep it up to date as much a possible. Cache management w= ill break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull techniques would= be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would be re-directs,= cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant differences in security= between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since reque= sts can be validated using a nonce. >>>=20 >>> Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope i= s. Is the goal to have one public mapping table system (like >>> DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create th= eir own mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if th= ey want to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a= private agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach). >>>=20 > Hello, >=20 > I don't think we should aim at finding only a global mapping table but ins= tead propose a method that allows to be either local (private) or global (pu= blic). Yes we do have the local /private.. in mind > Also we should consider the case of migration from a local only to a glob= al mapping. For example one start it's mapping in a DC then because of new u= sage of the DC then has to become public and global. The change of scope sho= uld be such that it does not require any change from the one changing. Maybe= we will have to explicitly indicate the scope of the mappings such that it a= llows to provide policy based filtering of them (something as powerful as B= GP extended communities would be great).=20 >=20 Ok will try to integrate this > Also as it is likely that we will not have one solution fits all, therefor= e we have to consider the seamless merging of mapping systems. Agree > For example one may use a push approach while another may use a pull one. = For that I guess that it will be useful to format the mapping information su= ch that it can be carried as-is by all the flavors of the solutions we will p= ropose or at least propose an automatic translation of the information.=20 >=20 > Thanks=20 >=20 > Damien Saucez >=20 >=20 >>> Tom >>>=20 >>> > >>> > >>> > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the >>> > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services >>> > that they provide. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface >>> > interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working >>> > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other releva= nt work. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > WG deliverables include: >>> > >>> > Overall architecture >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be >>> > >>> > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki >>> > >>> > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>> > >>> > -Problem statement >>> > >>> > -Use cases >>> > >>> > -Requirements >>> > >>> > ..... >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Milestones >>> > >>> > TBD >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Ideas mailing list >>> > Ideas@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> > >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Ideas mailing list >> Ideas@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas --Apple-Mail-F95E2BCE-667E-410B-9EB1-E21F590E5E15 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Damien 

Thanks for your comme= nts and feedback.  Will integrate some and clarify.

Thanks 
=
Padma 

Sent from my iPhone
<= div>
On May 19, 2017, at 01:22, Damien Saucez <damien.saucez@inria.fr> wrote:



On 18 May 2017, at 0= 9:52, Liubingyang (Bryan) <liub= ingyang@huawei.com> wrote:

I think that mapping from overlay&n= bsp;to underlay is a good use case in&nbs= p;virtualization environment. It can be l2 to&= nbsp;l3, l3 to l3, or anything that is&nb= sp;valuable in practice.

Btw, topology is a little vague, since it=  can be physical topology as well as = ;virtual network topology.

Best
Bingyang (Bryan)
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Padma Pillay-Esnault
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A Alexander Clemm<alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
=
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=EF=BC=9A Tom Herbert<tom@herbertland.com>;ideas@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Y= our input Needed on a Charter Proposal
=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A 2017-05-18 14:14:29

Hi Alex 

Comments see <PPE>

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Alexander Clemm <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <alexande= r.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:
FWIW, two comments on various aspects raised in this thread, one by Bingyang= , the other by Tom:

- On mapping name spaces between each other:  At one level this is true= , we could phrase it that way.  However, this implies there is no disti= nction between locators, identifiers, etc.  There would be merely "name= spaces" (of possibly different type), and locators would be treated like "names".  If we go this route, we need to be awa= re of ramifications, e.g. concerning uniqueness requirement.  Depending= on the coordinate system used for the locators, uniqueness may not always b= e a given.  Another difference concerns how names come into being - different for a name (that is assigned, or that= is registered) from a "coordinate" - the life cycle of IDs and locators may= have to be managed differently, and I would not expect this differentiation= to be made at the level of the namespace.   In other words, while this path will give us a very g= eneral mapping system (a good thing) that can be used as part of a control p= lane, I don't think this would constitute a control plane in itself itself, s= o this part of the charter would need to be adjusted.

<PPE> I tend to agree that making it general is a good thing.&nbs= p;

@ Alex If I understand you correctly ... Your concern is that today the= located is based on IP and that guarantees some kind of uniqueness which we= will rely on. However this may not be the case if we use another namespace.=
However, if there is no uniqueness in the locator then I would assume t= his is broken as forwarding would not be deterministic.

@ Bingyang My understanding is that you wanted to generalize this for f= orwarding on L3 and L2.
Is this what you had in mind?
 
- On the issue of hierarchies: I'm not a big fan of that and subscribe more t= o Tom's point of view.  However, we will need to be able distinguish th= e sharing of mapping information and the sharing of naming information (i.e.= , while a name might be shared, its associated mapping might not be).

<PPE> Agree with Alex and Tom here. I do not think that all mappi= ngs need to be shared. I would even say that this should be a feature.
=
 
--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:25 AM
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.i= etf@gmail.com>
Cc: ideas= @ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter P= roposal
On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault <= padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:<= br> > Hello IDEAS
>
> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 > and just a few weeks away.
>
> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from > you regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>
> Proposed Charter
>
>
>
> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the
> framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93lo= cation
> separation protocols.
>
>
>
> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly
> being considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous
= > access networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context<= br> > aware applications and security.  Due to the diverse nature of dev= ices
> and applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol en= d to end.
> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communicati= ons.
> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and
> operational hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions.
= >
>
>
> The working group will specify an overall architecture for  a comm= on
> control plane and services for identity-enabled technology.  More<= br> > specifically these services will include:
>
> =C2=B7      registration and lifecycle management of ide= ntities and associated
> identifiers
>
> =C2=B7      identifier binding to location(s),
>
> =C2=B7      support for grouping,
>
> =C2=B7      definition and enforcement of policies
>
> =C2=B7      support for metadata.
>
> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that<= br> > allow clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered.<= br> >
>
>
> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level > of control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-con= trol.
> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.
>
>
>
> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:
>
>
>
> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects.
>
Like other mapping systems (routing, DNS) there will probably be a natural t= wo level protocol hierarchy in the system. 1) The authoritative servers that= synchronize the full mapping table for a domain and possibly shard it 2) A m= eans for hosts to cache a subset of mappings without consulting the master for every use. Between the server= s a protocol is needed with goal of synchronizing the distributed table. For= the host cache protocol the goal is to manage the cache and keep it up to d= ate as much a possible. Cache management will break down to whether it's a pull or a push model. Pull tec= hniques would be like address resolution (like ARP as a model), push would b= e re-directs, cache invalidation, etc. There are some significant difference= s in security between pull and push, pull being the easier one to make secure since requests can be valida= ted using a nonce.

Another thing that might be mentioned in charter is what intended scope is. I= s the goal to have one public mapping table system (like
DNS) for the Internet with hierarchy that would allow sites to create their o= wn mapping tables? Or would each site create there own tables and if they wa= nt to share mapping information with their partners they can do so by a priv= ate agreement? (personally I'd favor the second approach).

Hello,

I don't think we should aim at finding only= a global mapping table but instead propose a method that allows to be eithe= r local (private) or global (public).

Yes we do have the local /private.. in mind
<= div>
 Also we should consider the case of migration from a local on= ly to a global mapping. For example one start it's mapping in a DC then beca= use of new usage of the DC then has to become public and global. The change o= f scope should be such that it does not require any change from the one chan= ging. Maybe we will have to explicitly indicate the scope of the mappings su= ch that it allows to provide policy based filtering of them (something as po= werful as  BGP extended communities would be great). 
Ok will try to integrate this

Also as it is likely that we will not have one solu= tion fits all, therefore we have to consider the seamless merging of mapping= systems.

Agree
For example one may use a push approach while another may u= se a pull one. For that I guess that it will be useful to format the mapping= information such that it can be carried as-is by all the flavors of the sol= utions we will propose or at least propose an automatic translation of the i= nformation. 

Thanks 

=
Damien Saucez


Tom

>
>
> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the
= > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > that they provide.
>
>
>
> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface
> interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol.
= >
>
>
> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working
= > Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevan= t work.
>
>
>
> WG deliverables include:
>
> Overall architecture
>
>
>
> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>
>
>
> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>
> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki
= >
> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers:
>
> -Problem statement
>
> -Use cases
>
> -Requirements
>
> .....
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones
>
> TBD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
>

_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
_______________________________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

____________________= ___________________________
Ideas mailing list
Ideas@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/ideas
= --Apple-Mail-F95E2BCE-667E-410B-9EB1-E21F590E5E15-- From nobody Fri May 19 15:25:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26BF129AE7 for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 15:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id agUgIzyRAxYH for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 15:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 407D512945F for ; Fri, 19 May 2017 15:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNJ96388; Fri, 19 May 2017 22:25:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 19 May 2017 23:25:45 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 19 May 2017 15:25:34 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Damien Saucez , "Liubingyang (Bryan)" CC: Padma Pillay-Esnault , Tom Herbert , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaMMavYZ1dllUWY8vR2r/Nz3aH5IGIA///2QzCAAQCAAIAAHSQAgAGatwCAAHRScA== Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 22:25:33 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAF273@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAE92D@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.108] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFAF273SJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.591F70EB.001D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAgOQfO6dbOQ; Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x234.google.com (mail-yb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E0971201F8; Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 130so21242950ybl.3; Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GzRALMD0paMTDPvahOJGUKbOqGG9PLwriUqU5HxHzpM=; b=L/mJk9fPDKodjQ0lDckqeu2K+O/9AC9lzuJp8RS7lQoUP/DE54/pqD8nLwyA+Pz1MP 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10.37.184.10 with SMTP id v10mr19064633ybj.82.1495558250409; Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.153.208 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149547735610.22634.10661693302211465600.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1765af8f1375483dba56391633ebb4d5@HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> From: Ca By Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:50:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: d.lake@surrey.ac.uk Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de, 5gangip@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0822e59c41bccf055033ca89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:50:54 -0000 --089e0822e59c41bccf055033ca89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the feedback, inline. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:19 AM, wrote: > Various comments, agreements, disagreements
in-line
. Plus I= =E2=80=99m > cc-ing the IDEAS BoF list as I think we have a degree of cross-over here. > > > > D > > > > *From:* 5gangip [mailto:5gangip-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ca By > *Sent:* 23 May 2017 16:52 > *To:* Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de > *Cc:* 5gangip@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > > > > Folks, > > > > I remain very skeptical about the value of this group's collected > protocols. The scope overlaps with work in the 3GPP, contradicts work in > the 3GPP, and the proposed ideas here are not obviously high value or fit > for the internet or mobile networks. > > > > Don't get me wrong, i am not in love with the 3GPP and i think there is a > lot to improve on many fronts. But, MAMS and LISP and ILA are not on th= e > short list of approaches i would hold up the 3GPP and say this is a bette= r > way. In fact, MAMS as a proxy and ILA as a NAT are exactly the legacy > telco stuff i would expect the IETF to work against in favor of a more > secure, more salable, and more end-to-end internet. > > > > AFAIK, FMC is already solved today. My very own iPhone can make calls on > WiFi, LTE, and switch between the 2 -- this is all standard 3GPP work fro= m > IMS. When i sit outside my house with bad wifi, the UE bounces between Wi= Fi > and LTE endlessly, but this unstable network does not interrupt me > streaming Youtube. So, i just don't see a problem to be solved here, > especially if it incurs a great deal of complexity and state and > signalling. That said, MIF and Happy Eyeballs both address this issue of > performance and network selection -- and i would strongly suggest the UE = is > in the best position to determine network quality and user experience. > > > >
Not sure I agree with this statement. In LTE, you can determine an > exactl quality (QCI) and setup up both a radio bearer and an IP level > transport profile to guarantee a defined throughput. Today, this only go= es > as far as the IMS core, but that is because we have no mechanism to exten= d > QoS policy and admission beyond the bounds of a single operator. The UE > works with the network, both IP and RAN, to maintain the QoE against the > required level. This then becomes a pure matter of coverage at sufficie= nt > density to ensure quality. > You cannot define throughput in the real world. You can ask for 100mb/s, but if there is only 5mb/s available (for whatever reason), you get 5mb/s. 3GPP is only capable of setting a ceiling QoS, it can never set a floor, because RF is hard. Very hard, so hard that is not reasonable to ever state you can set a quality / speed floor in a terms of service. > > > When you attach to WiFi, all bets are off. The UE is unable to make any > judgement as to the quality of ANY part of the transport, whether RAN or = IP > network and service degradation is not graceful. More and more I am > finding LTE much more reliable than local WiFi + wired Internet for voice > calls (plus cheaper =E2=80=93 LTE service plans are tending towards free = in many > geographies whereas hotels still seem to want to charge HUGE amounts for > bad WiFi).
> This is not correct, the UE absolutely makes actionable quality judgement on network paths today See Apple Wi-Fi assist https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205296 Or selecting based on destination address performance available in DNS with Happy Eyeballs https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-rfc6555bis-00 MP-TCP https://www.ietfjournal.org/multipath-tcp-deployments/ > > >
Separate item. On the YouTube/CDN side, many operators would like > the ability to be able to offer defined service levels based on content = =E2=80=93 > we have 9 QCIs in LTE (and more in 5GNR) but we currently only use 2. I= f > we had the ability to expose the mechanism by which content providers cou= ld > offer a better service level across the air-interface, then you could see > the way to a revenue-sharing model between OTTs and MNOs through a > settlement system (much as happens in many other shared networks such as > rail, electricity, gas, water).
> This functionality is already treated by 3GPP PCC functions and deployed broadly. > > I can't get over it this reduction: MAMs adds a proxy and ILA adds a NAT. > I just don't think that is architecturally wise in 4G or 5G. They just > can't scale in a gigabit broadband 5G usecase [which is the usecase that > pays the bills, not the pie in the sky stuff], and don't add meaningful > value, and simply detract value at scale. Also, ILA and MAMs takes a lot > of work on the UE. Getting changes into the UE is very hard, it took 10 > years from the standardization of IMS to get functional IMS client (VoLTE= ) > deployed at scale. > > > Finally, the 5G ship has already sailed. Many network are "launching 5G" > this year, and more networks (including the one i work at ) are committed > to launching "real 5G" in the next 2 to 3 years. None of the work in thi= s > group is within that 5G scope AFAIK. So, it may be most appropriate to > carry on the effort at 6G to avoid folks getting confused. > > > >
The 5G NR ship may have sailed, but 23.501 is FULL of holes when it > comes to the core network. In fact, 23.501 is proposing using the SAME > protocols and the SAME anchor as in current LTE EPC. My guess is that > we=E2=80=99ll see a 2-step approach to 5G =E2=80=93 5GNR introduced for 2= 018/2020 > time-frame; 5G New Core in the 2020/2025 time-frame. PLENTY of time for > IETF and 3GPP to fix some of the anchor/latency issues.
> > > >
We should also not lose sight that the things which current EPC does > well (streaming with large packets from centralised CDNs) are in violent > opposition to a number of 5G use-cases such as the transport of very > infrequent, small-sized data such as in IoT. When you have a video segme= nt > comprising many ~1500 Byte payloads, addressing overhead length is > negligible. When you are sending a 2 Byte temperature reading once every= 2 > hours and there are 9 or 10 layers of addressing, this becomes very > inefficient.
> > > I do not believe this use case is new or under-served. It would be more helpful to specifically quantify a problem. The description you gave needs a tighter and more specific problem to solve, and it would be helpful to understand how existing approachs (NB-IOT) are insufficient > I still hold out hope for ILNP to replace the mobility core at some futur= e > date, the radio network just does a simple authentication and that is all= . > But, that is my own dream of a simpler world :) I would suggest the > standard we look for in this group is: what can we remove from 3GPP 5G / > 6G, not what we can add. How does the work in this group reduce NET > signalling and user-plane modification from the 3GPP steady state? How i= s > that quantified? > > > > CB > > > >
Side Comment. There is much work here in IDEAS, 5gangip and > netslices which seems to be inter-related and VERY relevant. Somehow, we > need to ensure that the groups work together. I actually think this > problem space is broader than the thee BoFs currently being planned=E2=80= =A6
> > > > > > > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:53 AM, wrote: > > Dear all, > > We have updated the PS draft on 5G IP issues regarding the planned BoF in > Prague. > > Please check whether we have addressed the comments correctly and continu= e > to discuss this towards further improvement. > > Thanks a lot =E2=80=93 also on behalf of Roland, SungHoon, and Behcet > > > > Best Regards > Dirk > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > To: Behcet Sarikaya , Tom Herbert , > Roland Schott , SungHoon Seo , > Roland Schott , Dirk von Hugo < > dirk.von-hugo@telekom.de>, Satish Kanugovi > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-xyx-5gip-ps > Revision: 01 > Title: 5G IP Access and Session Management Protocols > Document date: 2017-05-22 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 14 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01= . > txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xyx-5gip-ps/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-0= 1 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-xyx-5gip-ps-01 > > Abstract: > This document builds upon 5G IP issues work and - based on a > simplified 5G system architecture - attempts to make the case for a > possible set of new protocols that need to be developed to be used > among various virtualized functions in a 5G network. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > _______________________________________________ > 5gangip mailing list > 5gangip@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip > > > --089e0822e59c41bccf055033ca89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the feedback, inline.

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:19 AM, <d.lak= e@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:

Various comments, agreements, disagreements <dl> in-line &l= t;/dl>.=C2=A0 Plus I=E2=80=99m cc-ing the IDEAS BoF list as I think we h= ave a degree of cross-over here.

=C2=A0

D

<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0<= u>

From: 5gangip [mailto:5gangip-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ca By
Sent: 23 May 2017 16:52
To: Di= rk.von-Hugo@telekom.de
Cc: 5gangip@ie= tf.org
Subject: Re: [5gangip] FW: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5g= ip-ps-01.txt

=C2=A0

Folks,

=C2=A0

I remain very skeptical about the value of this grou= p's collected protocols.=C2=A0 The scope overlaps with work in the 3GPP= , contradicts work in the 3GPP, and the proposed ideas here are not obvious= ly high value or fit for the internet or mobile networks.

=C2=A0

Don't get me wrong, i am not in love with the 3G= PP and i think there is a lot to improve on many fronts.=C2=A0 But, =C2=A0M= AMS and LISP and ILA are not on the short list of approaches i would hold u= p the 3GPP and say this is a better way.=C2=A0 In fact, MAMS as a proxy and ILA as a NAT are exactly the legacy telco stuff i woul= d expect the IETF to work against in favor of a more secure, more salable, = and more end-to-end internet.

=C2=A0

AFAIK, FMC is already solved today.=C2=A0 My very ow= n iPhone can make calls on WiFi, LTE, and switch between the 2 -- this is a= ll standard 3GPP work from IMS. When i sit outside my house with bad wifi, = the UE bounces between WiFi and LTE endlessly, but this unstable network does not interrupt me streaming Youtube.=C2=A0 S= o, i just don't see a problem to be solved here, especially if it incur= s a great deal of complexity and state and signalling.=C2=A0 That said, MIF= and Happy Eyeballs both address this issue of performance and network selection -- and i would strongly suggest the UE i= s in the best position to determine network quality and user experience. = =C2=A0

=C2=A0

<dl> Not sure I agree with this statement.=C2=A0 In = LTE, you can determine an exactl quality (QCI) and setup up both a radio be= arer and an IP level transport profile to guarantee a defined throughput.=C2=A0 Today, this only goes as far as the IMS core, = but that is because we have no mechanism to extend QoS policy and admission= beyond the bounds of a single operator.=C2=A0 The UE works with the networ= k, both IP and RAN, to maintain the QoE against the required level.=C2=A0=C2=A0 This then becomes a pure matter of coverag= e at sufficient density to ensure quality.


You cannot define throughput in the real= world.=C2=A0 You can ask for 100mb/s, but if there is only 5mb/s available= (for whatever reason), you get 5mb/s. =C2=A03GPP is only capable of settin= g a ceiling QoS, it can never set a floor, because RF is hard.=C2=A0 Very h= ard, so hard that is not reasonable to ever state you can set a quality / s= peed floor in a terms of service.
=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

When you attach to WiFi, all bets are off.=C2=A0 The UE is unable= to make any judgement as to the quality of ANY part of the transport, whet= her RAN or IP network and service degradation is not graceful. =C2=A0=C2=A0More and more I am finding LTE much more reli= able than local WiFi + wired Internet for voice calls (plus cheaper =E2=80= =93 LTE service plans are tending towards free in many geographies whereas = hotels still seem to want to charge HUGE amounts for bad WiFi). </dl>


This is not correct, the UE absolutely makes actionable qua= lity judgement on network paths today

See Apple Wi= -Fi assist=C2=A0https:= //support.apple.com/en-us/HT205296

Or selectin= g based on destination address performance available in DNS with Happy Eyeb= alls=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-rfc6555bis-00
<= div>
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<dl> Separate item.=C2=A0 On the YouTube/CDN side, many ope= rators would like the ability to be able to offer defined service levels ba= sed on content =E2=80=93 we have 9 QCIs in LTE (and more in 5GNR) but we currently only use 2.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If we had the abili= ty to expose the mechanism by which content providers could offer a better = service level across the air-interface, then you could see the way to a rev= enue-sharing model between OTTs and MNOs through a settlement system (much as happens in many other shared networks such as= rail, electricity, gas, water). </dl>


This functionality is already treated = by 3GPP PCC functions and deployed broadly.

<= /span>

=C2=A0

I can't get over it this reduction: MAMs adds a = proxy and ILA adds a NAT.=C2=A0 I just don't think that is architectura= lly wise in 4G or 5G. =C2=A0 They just can't =C2=A0scale in a gigabit b= roadband 5G usecase [which is the usecase that pays the bills, not the pie in the sky stuff], and don't add meaningful value, and sim= ply detract value at scale.=C2=A0 Also, ILA and MAMs takes a lot of work on= the UE.=C2=A0 Getting changes into the UE is very hard, it took 10 years f= rom the standardization of IMS to get functional IMS client (VoLTE) deployed at scale.


Finally, the 5G ship has already sailed.=C2=A0 Many network are "launc= hing 5G" this year, and more networks (including the one i work at ) a= re committed to launching "real 5G" in the next 2 to 3 years.=C2= =A0 None of the work in this group is within that 5G scope AFAIK. So, it may be most appropriate to carry on the effort at 6G to avoid folks= getting confused.

=C2=A0

<dl> The 5G NR ship may have sailed, but 23.501 is F= ULL of holes when it comes to the core network.=C2=A0 In fact, 23.501 is pr= oposing using the SAME protocols and the SAME anchor as in current LTE EPC.=C2=A0 My guess is that we=E2=80=99ll see a 2-step a= pproach to 5G =E2=80=93 5GNR introduced for 2018/2020 time-frame; 5G New Co= re in the 2020/2025 time-frame.=C2=A0 PLENTY of time for IETF and 3GPP to f= ix some of the anchor/latency issues.=C2=A0 </dl>

=C2=A0

<dl> We should also not lose sight that the things which cu= rrent EPC does well (streaming with large packets from centralised CDNs) ar= e in violent opposition to a number of 5G use-cases such as the transport of very infrequent, small-sized data su= ch as in IoT.=C2=A0 When you have a video segment comprising many ~1500 Byt= e payloads, addressing overhead length is negligible.=C2=A0 When you are se= nding a 2 Byte temperature reading once every 2 hours and there are 9 or 10 layers of addressing, this becomes very inef= ficient. </dl>

=C2=A0


I do not believe this use case is new or under= -served. =C2=A0 It would be more helpful to specifically quantify a problem= . The description you gave needs a tighter and more specific problem to sol= ve, and it would be helpful to understand how existing approachs (NB-IOT) a= re insufficient=C2=A0
=C2=A0

I still hold out hope for ILNP to replace the mobili= ty core at some future date, the radio network just does a simple authentic= ation and that is all. But, that is my own dream of a simpler world :) =C2= =A0I would suggest the standard we look for in this group is: =C2=A0what can we remove from 3GPP 5G / 6G, not what= we can add.=C2=A0 How does the work in this group reduce NET signalling an= d user-plane modification from the 3GPP steady state?=C2=A0 How is that qua= ntified?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

CB

=C2=A0

<dl> Side Comment.=C2=A0=C2=A0 There is much work here in I= DEAS, 5gangip and netslices which seems to be inter-related and VERY releva= nt.=C2=A0 Somehow, we need to ensure that the groups work together.=C2=A0 I actually think this problem space is broader than t= he thee BoFs currently being planned=E2=80=A6 </dl>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:53 AM, <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de= > wrote:

Dear all,

We have updated the PS draft = on 5G IP issues regarding the planned BoF in Prague.

Please check whether we have = addressed the comments correctly and continue to discuss this towards further improvement.

Thanks a lot =E2=80=93 also o= n behalf of Roland, SungHoon, and Behcet

=C2=A0

Best Regards
Dirk

=C2=A0

--= -------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:22 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Roland Schott <= ;roland.schot= t@telekom.de>, SungHoon Seo <sh.seo= @kt.com>, Roland Schott <Roland.Schott@telekom.de>, Dirk von Hugo <<= a href=3D"mailto:dirk.von-hugo@telekom.de" target=3D"_blank">dirk.von-hugo@= telekom.de>, Satish Kanugovi <satish.k@nokia.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-xyx-5gip-ps
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A001
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5G IP Access and Session Managemen= t Protocols
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-22
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 14
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01.txt=
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/draft-xyx-5gip-ps/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-xyx-5gip-ps-01
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-xyx-5gip-ps-01
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.= org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-xyx-5gip-ps-01

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document builds upon 5G IP issues work and - based on a =C2=A0 =C2=A0simplified 5G system architecture - attempts to make the case = for a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0possible set of new protocols that need to be developed to be = used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0among various virtualized functions in a 5G network.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
5gangip mailing list
5gangip@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/5gangip

=C2=A0


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11:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DD29129C5D for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DHE25161; Tue, 23 May 2017 18:14:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 23 May 2017 19:14:46 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:14:39 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Tom Herbert , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaM+aBB3O6SVE2+YSwACppLSaH4IpyAgAojUNA= Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BA649@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.15] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.59247C16.0272, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 370d666a4272636a82bd0ea4cd42a1a8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:14:50 -0000 CT4+IFdoZXJlIGFwcHJvcHJpYXRlLCB0aGUgSURFQVMgV0cgd2lsbCBjb2xsYWJvcmF0ZSB3aXRo IG90aGVyIFdvcmtpbmcgDQoJPj4gR3JvdXBzIHRvIGVuc3VyZSBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IHdp dGggTElTUCwgSElQLCBJTEEgYW5kIG90aGVyIHJlbGV2YW50IHdvcmsuDQoJPg0KCT5TaG91bGQg dGhlIHVzZSBjYXNlIG9yIHJlbGV2YW5jZSB0byA1Ry8zR1BQIGJlIG1lbnRpb25lZD8NCg0KNUcg c3BlYyBieSAzRyBkb2VzIG5lZWQgYSBjb21tb24gbWFwcGluZyBzeXN0ZW0gIHdoZXJlICBwYXJ0 IG9mIHRoZSBkYXRhIChvdGhlciB0aGFuIG1hcHBpbmcgaW5mbykgIGNvbnRyb2xsZWQgYnkgb3Bl cmF0b3IgYW5kIG1hcHBpbmcgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW4gZ2xvYmFsIGRhdGFiYXNlLiANClRoaXMg d2lsbCBub3Qgb25seSBwcm92aWRlIG1vYmlsaXR5IGJleW9uZCA0RywgYnV0IGNhbiBwb3RlbnRp YWxseSByZW1vdmUgYW5jaG9yIGJhc2VkIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBhbmQgaGVscCBlYXNlIGRlcGxveW1l bnQgZm9yIG5vbi0zR1BQL0hldG5ldCBhY2Nlc3MuDQpBcyB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gb2ZmaWNpYWwg bGlhaXNvbiBmb3IgYWxsIHRoZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgKGRvIHdlIGhhdmUgYW55Pz8pLCBlbHNl IC0gSU1PIHdlIHNob3VsZCBub3QgcHV0IGFueSBzcGVjaWZpYyBsYW5ndWFnZSBiZXlvbmQgZ2Vu ZXJpYyB1c2UgY2FzZXMgb3Igc3BlY2lmaWVkIG1vcmUgZ2VuZXJhbGx5Lg0KDQotLQ0KVW1hIEMu DQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Tue May 23 11:17:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D2E129C5D for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:17:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JYmfDB3q71BL for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2B9812AF84 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNQ37058; Tue, 23 May 2017 18:17:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 23 May 2017 19:17:43 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:17:38 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Tom Herbert , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaM+aBB3O6SVE2+YSwACppLSaH5IGIAgAkoBZA= Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:17:37 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BA65E@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.15] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.59247CC8.01EE, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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dGluZm8vaWRlYXMNCj4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCklkZWFzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KSWRlYXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRlYXMNCg== From nobody Tue May 23 11:28:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0280E12AF77 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EsMi98GXYBoC for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0E7712E03E for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNQ38072; Tue, 23 May 2017 18:27:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 23 May 2017 19:27:37 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 23 May 2017 11:27:31 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Declan Ma , Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaM+aBB3O6SVE2+YSwACppLSaH5K3AAgAkeS+A= Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:27:30 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BA671@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> In-Reply-To: <4889E9F8-66C1-453E-A98C-47CFAF87C313@zdns.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.15] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.59247F2C.005E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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13:26:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:26:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 22:26:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: "JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN" Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114450da1d5081055036cf07" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 20:27:01 -0000 --001a114450da1d5081055036cf07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian I have some comments see below while respiring the newer version Thanks Padma On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hi Christian > > Thanks for your review and feedback Will integrate some of this when I > respin the new version and will clarify, > > > Thanks > Padma > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 19, 2017, at 00:09, < > christian.jacquenet@orange.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > Thanks to Padma for this proposal. A few comments inline from my side. > > > > [snip] > > Proposed Charter > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93loc= ation > separation protocols. The identifier-enabled solutions and applications > are increasingly being considered to support mobility *[CJ] *scenarios ac= ross > heterogeneous access networks. > > Likewise, Internet of Things and Machine to Machine (M2M)*[CJ] * services= , > *[CJ] *as well as context aware applications*[CJ] * can take advantage of > identifier-enabled solutions. The enforcement of security*[CJ] * policies > (regardless of the nature of the service) can also benefit from IE featur= es. > > > I do not think that we should be discussing enforcement of security policies here. The definition and enforcement of policies is actually mention in the bulleted list below. > Due to the diverse nature of devices and applications, it may not be > possible to deploy a single protocol end to end. > > [CJ] Not sure I get the last part of the above sentence =E2=80=93 did you= mean a > single identifier/location separation protocol? If so, I would elaborate > and also briefly indicate this is because of likely different naming and > addressing schemes, such as typical, often technology-specific, IoT > services. > > Ok I make some clarifications on this in the newer version > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. > > [CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the above sentence. Did you mean: =E2=80= =9CA common > control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the > various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between these > heterogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I guess I would rephrase. > > Also, I think I would add a few words about negotiation capabilities that > may take place between mapping systems operated by different entities. > > I do not think we should add about negotiation capabilities specifically , this is covered as part of the control plane > Moreover, a common control plane will *[CJ] *smooth the technical and > operational hurdles to deployment and interoperability of *[CJ] *heteroge= neous > solutions. > > [CJ] Not sure a common control plane is sufficient to address all the > technical and operational hurdles hence the proposed rewording. > > > > Agree. The original text intent was not to say that it was addressing "all". > The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > control plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More > specifically these services will include: > > =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and assoc= iated > identifiers > > =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > [CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability of facilitating communications > within communities (of users/devices, whether they are in motion or not, > and which use different naming schemes)? If so, I would elaborate and I > also think this implies some negotiation capabilities (clearance to join = a > community, exchanging mapping information between different Mapping > Systems). > > This was already discussed in the requirements document section 5.8.1 Would like to keep the charter as bulleted list here. > =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > [CJ] I think we should be specific about what such policies look like =E2= =80=93 > forwarding/routing, traffic engineering, security, QoS? A combination > thereof? > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > [CJ] You may want to elaborate on the usage of such metadata. > > Both of these are discussed in the requirement draft section 5.8.2, 5.8.3 If we have to add details would be best to do it there > Ok > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow clients to communicate*[CJ] */negotiate with that infrastructure > will be covered. > > Why negotiate specifically? I think communicate covers negotiation and exchange of information > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > [CJ] Not sure I understand the above two sentences. Did you mean: =E2=80= =9CThe > common control plane is meant to provide hard guarantees about identity > information, among other features. Such guarantees will facilitate the > design and the operation of secured, trustworthy, and robust communicatio= n > services regardless of the underlying networked technologies and the > various addressing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into > account the need for such hard guarantees for the specification of the > common control plane, while making sure an appropriate balance can be fou= nd > between the amount of information that need to be maintained by the commo= n > control plane and the scalability/performance of the proposed approach.= =E2=80=9D? > > > > > What do you mean by hard guarantees? Here is the newer version whic= h also takes into account Tom's Comment "The implementation of secured identities can address some concerns regarding privacy, confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations." > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > [CJ] I think the WG should also capitalize the effort conducted by the > above WGs, besides interop considerations. > > Is that a given? The "relevant work" covers this aspect. > > > Sure > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall architecture > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > For the record, I won=E2=80=99t be able to attend the next Prague IETF, b= ut I=E2=80=99m > willing to contribute. Also, I fully agree with Alex=E2=80=99s latest com= ment about > the generalization of the mapping problem. The scope needs to be focused. > > [CJ] Cheers, > > Christian. > > > > Ok > > > > Milestones > > TBD > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --001a114450da1d5081055036cf07 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christian=C2=A0

I have some comments= see below <PPE> while respiring the newer version=C2=A0
Thanks
Padma

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Padma Pillay-Esna= ult <padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Christian=C2=A0

Thanks for = your review and feedback Will integrate some of this when I respin the new = version and will clarify,

<= br>
Thanks
Padma=C2=A0




Sent from my iPhone

Dear all,

=C2=A0

Thanks to Padma for this proposal. A few= comments inline from my side.

=C2=A0

[snip]

Proposed Charter

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = focuses on the framework =C2=A0to implement a common control plane for iden= tifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. The identifier-enabled= solutions and applications are increasingly being considered to support mo= bility [CJ] scenarios across heterogeneous access networks.=C2=A0

Li= kewise, Internet of Things and= Machine to Machine (M2M)[CJ] =C2=A0services,= [CJ] as well as cont= ext aware applications[CJ] =C2=A0can take advanta= ge of identifier-enabled solutions. The enforcement of security= [CJ] =C2=A0policies (regard= less of the nature of the service) can also benefit from IE features= .=C2=A0

=
<PPE> I do not think that we should be discussing enforcement of= security policies here.
The definition and enforcement of polici= es is actually mention in the bulleted list below.
=C2=A0

Due to the diverse nature of devices and applicat= ions, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end to end.

[CJ] Not sure I get the last part of the= above sentence =E2=80=93 did you mean a single identifier/location separat= ion protocol? If so, I would elaborate and also briefly indicate this is becau= se of likely different naming and addressing schemes, such as typical, ofte= n technology-specific, IoT services.

<PPE> Ok I make some clarific= ations on this in the newer version =C2=A0

A common control plane will address siloes in discov= ery and communications.=

[CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the abov= e sentence. Did you mean: =E2=80=9CA common control plane is required to fa= cilitate the dynamic discovery of the various naming/addressing schemes and the com= munication between these heterogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I gues= s I would rephrase.

Also, I think I would add a few words ab= out negotiation capabilities that may take place between mapping systems operated by different entities.

<PPE> I do not think we should ad= d about negotiation capabilities specifically , this is covered as part of = the control plane

<= /u>

=C2=A0 Moreover, a common control plane will [CJ] smooth the technical and operational hurd= les to deployment and interope= rability of [CJ] heterogeneous solutions.

[CJ] Not sure a common control plane is = sufficient to address all the technical and operational hurdles hence the proposed rewording.

=C2=A0

<PPE> Agree. The original text intent was n= ot to say that it was addressing "all".


<= div>

The working group will specify an overall architectu= re for=C2=A0 a common control plane and services for identity-enabled techn= ology.=C2=A0 More specifically these services will include:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 registration and lifecycle management of identities and associated i= dentifiers

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for grouping,

[CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability= of facilitating communications within communities (of users/devices, whether they are in motion or not, and which use different naming schemes)= ? If so, I would elaborate and I also think this implies some negotiation c= apabilities (clearance to join a community, exchanging mapping information = between different Mapping Systems).

<PPE> This was already d= iscussed in the requirements document section 5.8.1=C2=A0
Would l= ike to keep the charter as bulleted list here.

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies

[CJ] I think we should be specific about= what such policies look like =E2=80=93 forwarding/routing, traffic enginee= ring, security, QoS? A combination thereof?

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 support for metadata.=C2=A0

[CJ] You may want to elaborate on the us= age of such metadata.

<PPE> Both of these are discussed in t= he requirement draft section 5.8.2, 5.8.3
If we have to add detai= ls would be best to do it there
=C2=A0
=
Ok
<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">

Additionally, the control plane interface and protoc= ol extensions that allow clients to communicate[CJ] /negotiate with= that infrastructure will be covered.

<PPE> Why negotiate specifica= lly? I think communicate covers negotiation =C2=A0and exchange of informati= on=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The abstraction provided by a secured identity will = give a new level of control for confidentiality, accountability, security a= nd access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy co= nsiderations.

[CJ] Not sure I understand the above two= sentences. Did you mean: =E2=80=9CThe common control plane is meant to pro= vide hard guarantees about identity information, among other features. Such gua= rantees will facilitate the design and the operation of secured, trustworth= y, and robust communication services regardless of the underlying networked= technologies and the various addressing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into account the need for such ha= rd guarantees for the specification of the common control plane, while maki= ng sure an appropriate balance can be found between the amount of informati= on that need to be maintained by the common control plane and the scalability/performance of the proposed a= pproach.=E2=80=9D?

=C2=A0


<PPE&g= t; What do you mean by hard guarantees? Here is the newer version which als= o takes into account Tom's Comment

"The i= mplementation of secured identities can address some concerns regarding privacy, confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations."=C2=A0<= /div>

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architecture: This work covers the control p= lane, management, policy control, and security aspects.

=C2=A0

Manageability of the architecture: The working group= will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and th= e services that they provide.

=C2=A0

Interface to the architecture: This work will cover = interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protoco= l.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate wit= h other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and o= ther relevant work.

[CJ] I think the WG should also capitali= ze the effort conducted by the above WGs, besides interop considerations.

<PPE> Is that a given? The "relevant work" covers t= his aspect.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Sure

WG deliverables include:

Overall architecture

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

For the record, I won=E2=80=99t be able = to attend the next Prague IETF, but I=E2=80=99m willing to contribute. Also= , I fully agree with Alex=E2=80=99s latest comment about the generalization of the m= apping problem. The scope needs to be focused.

[CJ] Cheers,

Christian.

=C2=A0

Ok

=C2=A0

Milestones=C2=A0

TBD

____________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

--001a114450da1d5081055036cf07-- From nobody Tue May 23 13:37:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A3112EA8C for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chmztl6dbBiI for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F307120227 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id 123so21691473wmg.1 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lqfCeoQEJU6ektA5S+dD/Wl0g9+HFACCUfR2cb63BJc=; b=cJbuwG01dKVInrVUf51GfjxCymQA5+1SRACEKdVwtyGYlsVqKKmiDJYIGPXmiT3x+Q gvWmc0PlL2BD1dfSxgBSMG00LCv6U50So3eRnjIKvkRSjlmSV6dUd7rX0r6sYuz17AbR 9IXdcHGHcGPxPnuLfaYbaFJr/vf8TelG+W3KJlZF17mIBmgZiLhnW22TwhYZfwwI3OBP dq1MiORacJd541Z0ltj6ZTiC6Ncx/M9uoIPWYBC79G49n4ap0dBH9W6kj7JGR8RWekK7 Rwvhm8KobXTVy1xhKcXyB/rlSzAuIxRkIS+RdlF3rlKcSLPEaCayDN48eJCSulqCLsgg jVfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lqfCeoQEJU6ektA5S+dD/Wl0g9+HFACCUfR2cb63BJc=; b=Z65pVuLFSPdTU7eo/zgULaBb8Jcqv/il51dPqGlnjyucu59sw/uQ6BPkZcnskzCvqA GiB9x7AlGLgVu/k8803oSYLnEZWe8FE3YopGXuJ3N3tainkKyMEChxYASU8KthukQixf l0wE8K3PbY+n0hVDJmK+xPdW54wrDiJWkKtiE3WfNIWhtLKiQ0KRw3X51ixDoT2YCHB1 PUPKMkcdVJZS62szmtFfijucFHAVh6LAcBv7+Jwa9Va18Yvv9SOijmkfrju8uMU0QomH 9Yaa/3YCpzXTj6Z7PjwsuXCrscUS9eO+4MjxnpSojWLm5TM4a0h2pogKnCKK9aKnuvV6 aaBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcB6gJVQyTh3nFH8rcWda4vMOvBKP2rYcims/qCqanWqLfbh2wJz WFBJyFH5RACyNCitFyZ13OVoeigHR3W1 X-Received: by 10.28.178.207 with SMTP id b198mr3752143wmf.0.1495571844191; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2017 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 22:37:23 +0200 Message-ID: To: Albert Cabellos Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114428f4825f20055036f43c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 20:37:28 -0000 --001a114428f4825f20055036f43c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Albert See below for some of my comments in the process of spinning the newer version Thanks Padma On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:59 PM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote: > Hi Albert and all > > Thanks for your feedback and comments > > I will respin a new version with all the comments and feedback > > Thanks > Padma > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 19, 2017, at 03:30, Albert Cabellos > wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > Please see my comments inline: > > > > On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault > > wrote: > >> Hello IDEAS > >> > >> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/2017 a= nd > >> just a few weeks away. > >> > >> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to have > input > >> from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from you > >> regarding the scope of work and your interests. > >> > > > > Thanks for putting this together > > > >> Proposed Charter > >> > >> > >> > >> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the > framework > >> to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93location se= paration > >> protocols. > >> > >> > > > > I see some inconsistencies, here it is clear that the WG will work on > > a 'control plane', while below it states 'the overall architecture'. > > There are very little mentions to the database storing the information > > (e.g, Mapping System). > > Ok > >> The identifier-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly bei= ng > >> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous access > >> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aware > >> applications and security. Due to the diverse nature of devices and > >> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol end t= o > end. > >> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and > communications. > >> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and > operational > >> hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions. > >> > > > > From the text I understand that mobility is central to IDEAS, I think > > that mobility is a relevant function but ID-enabled solutions have > > additional functions which are of interest for other use-cases. > >> > Agree > >> > >> The working group will specify an overall architecture for a common > control > >> plane and services for identity-enabled technology. More specifically > these > >> services will include: > >> > > > > control-plane is part of the overall architecture, we need to specify > this. > > > Ok > >> =C2=B7 registration and lifecycle management of identities and > associated > >> identifiers > >> > >> =C2=B7 identifier binding to location(s), > >> > >> =C2=B7 support for grouping, > >> > >> =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > >> > >> =C2=B7 support for metadata. > >> > >> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow > >> clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. > >> > >> > > > > Another interesting item is how to deal with the distribution of the > ID-state: > > > > - Assuming you are (logically) centralizing the ID state you may > > want/need to push/pull the relevant state to the data-plane elements > > to improve performance. On top of that and in some cases the state may > > have relevance regionally (to a few clustered data-plane elements), in > > this case you may want/need to push/pull this state to a regional > > server for performance. This results in state consistency issues and a > > solution needs to be standardized. > > > > - The most common case is where the state is 'read' by the data-plane > > elements from the Mapping System (either push or pull), but we have > > found that 'writing' state from the data-plane elements to the Mapping > > System (or whatever you may call it) is a key aspect of ID > > architectures. A relevant example is the Map-Register message in LISP, > > which does precisely this: write state. When the data-plane elements > > are allowed to write state then you have to deal with state > > consistency, race conditions, etc. A standard solution for this must > > be produced. > > > Will come back on this agree mostly > We have proposed in the requirements document a Pub/Sub model. Agree with you that the race conditions and propagation delay depends on the model. Propose to add a bullet after " identifier binding to location" ID leaking and distribution. BTW, this is covered in the section 5.4 of the req document. >> > >> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level o= f > >> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and > access-control. > >> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > >> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > >> > >> > > > > Security is a very broad word that pretty much includes > > confidentiality, accountability, access-control, etc. We need to > > narrow this or leave it wide open to then analyze which properties we > > want. > > > > In my view privacy is a very relevant one, particularly when you are > > targeting mobility end-to-end, confidentiality seems harder to achieve > > as a whole. > > > Agree > > > Albert > > > > > >> > >> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > >> > >> > >> > >> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy > >> control, and security aspects. > >> > >> > >> > >> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > >> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services > that > >> they provide. > >> > >> > >> > >> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface > interactions > >> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > >> > >> > >> > >> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working > Groups > >> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work= . > >> > >> > >> > >> WG deliverables include: > >> > >> Overall architecture > >> > >> > >> > >> WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > >> > >> > >> > >> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > >> > >> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > >> > >> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > >> > >> -Problem statement > >> > >> -Use cases > >> > >> -Requirements > >> > >> ..... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Milestones > >> > >> TBD > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ideas mailing list > >> Ideas@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > >> > --001a114428f4825f20055036f43c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Albert=C2=A0

See below <PPE> f= or some of my comments in the process of spinning the newer version=C2=A0

Thanks
Padma

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:59 PM, Padma = Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi=C2=A0 Albert and all

Thanks for your feedback and comments

I will respin a new version with all the comments and feedback

Thanks
Padma

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2017, at 03:30, Albert Cabellos <albert.cabellos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Please see my comments inline:
>
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault
> <padma.ietf@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
>> Hello IDEAS
>>
>> The deadline for a request for a BOF for IETF99 in July is 6/02/20= 17 and
>> just a few weeks away.
>>
>> Please see below a tentative charter proposal. We would like to ha= ve input
>> from the list regarding the charter. We would like to hear from yo= u
>> regarding the scope of work and your interests.
>>
>
> Thanks for putting this together
>
>> Proposed Charter
>>
>>
>>
>> The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group focuses on the= framework
>> to implement a common control plane for identifier=E2=80=93locatio= n separation
>> protocols.
>>
>>
>
> I see some inconsistencies, here it is clear that the WG will work on<= br> > a 'control plane', while below it states 'the overall arch= itecture'.
> There are very little mentions to the database storing the information=
> (e.g, Mapping System).

Ok
>> The identifier-enabled solutions and applic= ations are increasingly being
>> considered to support mobility solutions across heterogeneous acce= ss
>> networks, Internet of Things, Machine to Machine (M2M), context aw= are
>> applications and security.=C2=A0 Due to the diverse nature of devi= ces and
>> applications, it may not be possible to deploy a single protocol e= nd to end.
>> A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and commun= ications.
>> Moreover, a common control plane will address the technical and op= erational
>> hurdle to deployment and interoperability of solutions.
>>
>
> From the text I understand that mobility is central to IDEAS, I think<= br> > that mobility is a relevant function but ID-enabled solutions have
> additional functions which are of interest for other use-cases.
>>
Agree
>>
>> The working group will specify an overall architecture for=C2=A0 a= common control
>> plane and services for identity-enabled technology.=C2=A0 More spe= cifically these
>> services will include:
>>
>
> control-plane is part of the overall architecture, we need to specify = this.
>
Ok
>> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 registrati= on and lifecycle management of identities and associated
>> identifiers
>>
>> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier binding to location(s),
>>
>> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for grouping,
>>
>> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition and enforcement of policies<= br> >>
>> =C2=B7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support for metadata.
>>
>> Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions = that allow
>> clients to communicate with that infrastructure will be covered. >>
>>
>
> Another interesting item is how to deal with the distribution of the I= D-state:
>
> - Assuming you are (logically) centralizing the ID state you may
> want/need to push/pull the relevant state to the data-plane elements > to improve performance. On top of that and in some cases the state may=
> have relevance regionally (to a few clustered data-plane elements), in=
> this case you may want/need to push/pull this state to a regional
> server for performance. This results in state consistency issues and a=
> solution needs to be standardized.
>
> - The most common case is where the state is 'read' by the dat= a-plane
> elements from the Mapping System (either push or pull), but we have > found that 'writing' state from the data-plane elements to the= Mapping
> System (or whatever you may call it) is a key aspect of ID
> architectures. A relevant example is the Map-Register message in LISP,=
> which does precisely this: write state. When the data-plane elements > are allowed to write state then you have to deal with state
> consistency, race conditions, etc. A standard solution for this must > be produced.
>
Will come back on this agree mostly

<PPE> We have proposed in the requirements document a Pub/Su= b model.
Agree with you that the race conditions and propagation = delay depends on the model.

Propose to add a bulle= t after "=C2=A0identifier binding t= o location"
=C2=A0ID leaking = and=C2=A0distribution. BT= W, this is =C2=A0covered in the section 5.4 of the req document.


>>
>> The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new lev= el of
>> control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-c= ontrol.
>> The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with t= he
>> minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.
>>
>>
>
> Security is a very broad word that pretty much includes
> confidentiality, accountability, access-control, etc. We need to
> narrow this or leave it wide open to then analyze which properties we<= br> > want.
>
> In my view privacy is a very relevant one, particularly when you are > targeting mobility end-to-end, confidentiality seems harder to achieve=
> as a whole.
>
Agree

> Albert
>
>
>>
>> Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: >>
>>
>>
>> Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, manageme= nt, policy
>> control, and security aspects.
>>
>>
>>
>> Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover th= e
>> management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the servi= ces that
>> they provide.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface inte= ractions
>> between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Workin= g Groups
>> to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant = work.
>>
>>
>>
>> WG deliverables include:
>>
>> Overall architecture
>>
>>
>>
>> WG sustaining/informational documents may include:
>>
>>
>>
>> These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be
>>
>> maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wik= i
>>
>> to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: >>
>> -Problem statement
>>
>> -Use cases
>>
>> -Requirements
>>
>> .....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Milestones
>>
>> TBD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ideas mailing list
>> Ideas@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas=
>>

--001a114428f4825f20055036f43c-- From nobody Tue May 23 15:07:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330D612EAB5 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 15:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id azdjNmd2GuU8 for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 15:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2ED6128CDB for ; Tue, 23 May 2017 15:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNQ57641; Tue, 23 May 2017 22:07:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 23 May 2017 23:07:42 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 23 May 2017 15:07:38 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaM+aBB3O6SVE2+YSwACppLSaH7uniAgADrf4CABjysAP//o0Iw Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 22:07:37 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BA72F@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.42] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BA72FSJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.5924B2B0.0073, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a6fbd72d02e494ea9ae11e0923f0e55c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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24 May 2017 02:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDhppyV5zvS8 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 02:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC87B129437 for ; Wed, 24 May 2017 02:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 02C912061B; Wed, 24 May 2017 11:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.75]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C4C4020086; Wed, 24 May 2017 11:56:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Wed, 24 May 2017 11:56:05 +0200 From: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaDuU9MmPcvyUyxxcNMHLc8KqH7PIDggADSl4CABjysAIAA/iTA Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 09:56:05 +0000 Message-ID: <16456_1495619765_592558B5_16456_382_5_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14381BB3@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> <16456_1495619765_592558B5_16456_382_5_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14381BB3@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 07:59:29 +0200 Message-ID: To: "JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN" Cc: ideas@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114428f46f8ea70550670a52" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 05:59:35 -0000 --001a114428f46f8ea70550670a52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christian Thanks for your response. See for my responses. In order to converge faster, I suggest that you send some proposals to the text marked with *** and we discuss it on the list. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:56 AM, wrote: > Hello Padma, all, > > > > Thanks for your feedback =E2=80=93 more inline. > > [snip]. > > Likewise, Internet of Things and Machine to Machine (M2M)*[CJ] * services > , *[CJ] *as well as context aware applications*[CJ] * can take advantage > of identifier-enabled solutions. The enforcement of security*[CJ]* polici= es > (regardless of the nature of the service) can also benefit from IE featur= es > . > > I do not think that we should be discussing enforcement of security > policies here. > > The definition and enforcement of policies is actually mention in the > bulleted list below. > > [CJ] Maybe I was confused by the initial wording, but the original > sentence mixes very different notions: IoT/M2M/context-aware (application= s) > on one side and then the word security pops up. And the bullet list only > mentions policies with no further elaboration (enforcement is not mention= ed > for one). So, I would either suggest an elaboration or a rewording of the > initial sentence, or the deletion of security, or the introduction of the > set of policies that may be supported by the ideas architecture and which > may serve the requirements of the aforementioned services/applications. > Clarified some of these aspects in newer version of charter which incorporates the comments and feedback. Let's defer to then. > > > *[CJ] *[snip] > > A common control plane will address siloes in discovery and communication= s. > > [CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the above sentence. Did you mean: =E2=80= =9CA common > control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the > various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between these > heterogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I guess I would rephrase. > > Also, I think I would add a few words about negotiation capabilities that > may take place between mapping systems operated by different entities. > > I do not think we should add about negotiation capabilities > specifically , this is covered as part of the control plane > > [CJ] Well, the word =E2=80=9Cnegotiation=E2=80=9D is not mentioned anywhe= re so far and I=E2=80=99m > not convinced tat mentioning a control plane necessarily implies > negotiation capabilities. > May be I should ask the question differently ... FWIW, I am not convinced that the specific word negotiate need to be added in the charter. To participate in a control plane you may or may not need to negotiate. See more below As I=E2=80=99m not convinced there will be a single, global, pan-service, m= apping > system either, then the question of inter-MS negotiation capabilities > (besides MS service discovery) comes naturally to mind. And I think this > should be explicitly stated in the charter. > Yes but as Tom had alluded this can also be done by agreement not necessarily in the control plane either. I am not opposed to having negotiation however it should not be mandatory. Can you propose some text here so that we can discuss it on the alias ?*** Moreover, a common control plane will *[CJ] *smooth the technical and > operational hurdles to deployment and interoperability of *[CJ] * > heterogeneous solutions. > > [CJ] Not sure a common control plane is sufficient to address all the > technical and operational hurdles hence the proposed rewording. > > > > Agree. The original text intent was not to say that it was > addressing "all". > > [CJ] Right, but then again, the initial wording may suggest such claimed > comprehensiveness. > ok sure. > > > > > =C2=B7 support for grouping, > > [CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability of facilitating communications > within communities (of users/devices, whether they are in motion or not, > and which use different naming schemes)? If so, I would elaborate and I > also think this implies some negotiation capabilities (clearance to join = a > community, exchanging mapping information between different Mapping > Systems). > > This was already discussed in the requirements document section > 5.8.1 > > Would like to keep the charter as bulleted list here. > > [CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the argument that seems to suggest the re= ading of > the requirements document is a must to understand the charter. > My argument is rather that the charter should not go into such detail that it ends up excluding what is not written. The bulleted list is just listing the work on a high level and is not excluding these aspects. Understand your POV. =C2=B7 definition and enforcement of policies > > [CJ] I think we should be specific about what such policies look like =E2= =80=93 > forwarding/routing, traffic engineering, security, QoS? A combination > thereof? > > =C2=B7 support for metadata. > > [CJ] You may want to elaborate on the usage of such metadata. > > Both of these are discussed in the requirement draft section 5.8.2, > 5.8.3 > > If we have to add details would be best to do it there > > [CJ] I understand a WG charter has to be concise, but I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk this > should be at the cost of jeopardizing the understanding of what the WG is > trying to address/achieve. > > > Yes this is where we are at odds. :-) If we define here what the metadata will cover - won't that be an issue of putting everything else out of scope? Specifically,if we define opaque data then this should not necessarily defined in the charter. Same for the policies, are you advocating to put restrictions on the metadata and policy usage and scope? May be you should propose some wording here and then everyone can converge on the list. *** Ok > > Additionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that > allow clients to communicate*[CJ] */negotiate with that infrastructure > will be covered. > > Why negotiate specifically? I think communicate covers negotiation > and exchange of information > > [CJ] I don=E2=80=99t think communication implies negotiation =E2=80=93 se= e also one of my > previous comments. Exchanging information is certainly not negotiation. > Do you intend to introduce the notion of rejection of a communication by negotiation? To be able to negotiate that implies you have communication exchange and it is a processing of that communication exchange. For backward interoperability, it would be best to not narrow this. Will defer to opinion of the community. > > > The abstraction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of > control for confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. > The working group will cover these aspects and balance them with the > minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > [CJ] Not sure I understand the above two sentences. Did you mean: =E2=80= =9CThe > common control plane is meant to provide hard guarantees about identity > information, among other features. Such guarantees will facilitate the > design and the operation of secured, trustworthy, and robust communicatio= n > services regardless of the underlying networked technologies and the > various addressing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into > account the need for such hard guarantees for the specification of the > common control plane, while making sure an appropriate balance can be fou= nd > between the amount of information that need to be maintained by the commo= n > control plane and the scalability/performance of the proposed approach.= =E2=80=9D? > > > > > > What do you mean by hard guarantees? > > [CJ] By hard guarantees, I meant trustworthy identity information. > "secured" identity implies that correct? IMHO, hard guarantees is too vague a term. Here is the newer version which also takes into account Tom's Comment > > > > "The implementation of secured identities can address some concerns > regarding privacy, confidentiality, accountability, security and > access-control. The working group will cover these aspects and balance th= em > with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations." > > [CJ] What aspects? The concerns mentioned in the first sentence? If so, > mentioning =E2=80=9Csome concerns=E2=80=9D reads a bit fuzzy to me. Again= , I think the > charter needs to be specific and in particular indicate clearly what will > be covered and what will not. > IMHO, we cannot imply that by having secured identities all concerns are covered hence the "some". Perhaps best you make a proposal for this as well so everyone can converge.**** Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas: > > > > Overall architecture: This work covers the control plane, management, > policy control, and security aspects. > > > > Manageability of the architecture: The working group will cover the > management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services tha= t > they provide. > > > > Interface to the architecture: This work will cover interface interaction= s > between the framework and identifier-enabled protocol. > > > > Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Group= s > to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. > > [CJ] I think the WG should also capitalize the effort conducted by the > above WGs, besides interop considerations. > > Is that a given? The "relevant work" covers this aspect. > > [CJ] The sentence says collaborate, which does not imply capitalize afaic= . > What I meant is that ideas should not reinvent the wheel wherever there a= re > already mechanisms/protocols/tools that can serve its purpose. > I see what you mean and this is not the intent. Would this work better? Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work. The WG will try to reuse technologies already developed when appropriate. --001a114428f46f8ea70550670a52 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Christia= n=C2=A0

Thanks for your response.
See <PPE1> for my responses.
<= /div>
In order to converge faster, I suggest that you send some proposals to the= text marked with *** and we discuss it on the list.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:56 AM,=C2=A0=C2= =A0<christian.jacquenet@orange.com>=C2=A0w= rote:

Hello Padma, all,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your feedback =E2=80=93 more inline.=

[snip].<= span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">=C2=A0

Likewise,=C2=A0Internet of Things=C2=A0and=C2=A0Machine to Machine (M2M)[CJ]=C2=A0=C2=A0services,=C2=A0[CJ]=C2=A0as wel= l as=C2=A0context aware applications[CJ]=C2=A0= =C2=A0can take advantage of identifier-enabled solutions.=C2=A0The enforcement of security[CJ]=C2=A0policies (regardless of the nature of the service) = can also benefit from IE features.=C2=A0

<PPE> I do not think that= we should be discussing enforcement of security policies here.

=

The definition and enforcement of policies is actual= ly mention in the bulleted list below.

[CJ] Maybe I was confused by the initial wording, bu= t the original sentence mixes very different notions: IoT/M2M/context-aware= (applications) on one side and then the word security pops up. And the bul= let list only mentions policies with no further elaboration (enforcement is= not mentioned for one). So, I would either suggest an elaboration or a rew= ording of the initial sentence, or the deletion of security, or the introdu= ction of the set of policies that may be supported by the ideas architectur= e and which may serve the requirements of the aforementioned services/appli= cations.


<PPE1> Clarified some of these aspects in newer version of ch= arter which incorporates the comments and feedback. Let's defer to then= .

=C2=A0

[CJ]=C2=A0<= /b>[snip]=C2=A0=C2=A0

A common control plane will address siloes in d= iscovery and communications.

[CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the above sentence. Did you mean: =E2= =80=9CA common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discover= y of the various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between th= ese heterogeneous environments=E2=80=9D? If so, I guess I would rephrase.

Also, I think I w= ould add a few words about negotiation capabilities that may take place bet= ween mapping systems operated by different entities.

<PPE> I do not think we should= add about negotiation capabilities specifically , this is covered as part = of the control plane

[CJ] Well, the word =E2=80=9Cnegotiation=E2=80=9D is not mentioned any= where so far and I=E2=80=99m not convinced tat mentioning a control plane n= ecessarily implies negotiation capabilities.


<PPE1> May be I should ask the = question differently ... FWIW, I am not convinced that the specific word ne= gotiate need to be added in the charter. To participate in a control plane = you may or may not need to negotiate. See more below

As I=E2=80=99m not convinced there will be a si= ngle, global, pan-service, mapping system either, then the question of inte= r-MS negotiation capabilities (besides MS service discovery) comes naturall= y to mind. And I think this should be explicitly stated in the charter.


<PPE1> Yes= but as Tom had alluded this can also be done by agreement not necessarily = in the control plane either. I am not opposed to having negotiation however= =C2=A0it should not be mandatory. Can you propose some text here so that w= e can discuss it on the alias ?***

=C2=A0 Moreover, a common co= ntrol plane will=C2=A0[CJ]=C2= =A0smooth=C2=A0= the technical and operational hurdles= =C2=A0to deployment and interoperability of=C2=A0[CJ]=C2=A0heterogeneous=C2=A0solutions.

[CJ] Not sure a common control plane is suffic= ient to address all the technical and operational hurdles hence the propose= d rewording.

=C2=A0

<PPE> Agree. The origin= al text intent was not to say that it was addressing "all".

[CJ] Right, but then = again, the initial wording may suggest such claimed comprehensiveness.


<PPE1>= ; ok sure.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0support for grouping,

[CJ] Does grouping relate to the ability of f= acilitating communications within communities (of users/devices, whether th= ey are in motion or not, and which use different naming schemes)? If so, I = would elaborate and I also think this implies some negotiation capabilities= (clearance to join a community, exchanging mapping information between dif= ferent Mapping Systems).

<PPE> This was already discussed in the requirements d= ocument section 5.8.1=C2=A0

Would like t= o keep the charter as bulleted list here.

[CJ] I don=E2=80=99t understand the argument tha= t seems to suggest the reading of the requirements document is a must to un= derstand the charter.

=C2=A0<= /div>
<PPE1> =C2=A0My argument is rather that the charter = should not go into such detail that it ends up excluding what is not writte= n. The bulleted list is just listing the work on a high level and is not ex= cluding these aspects. Understand your POV.
<= div>

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0definition and enforcement of policies

[CJ] I think we should be speci= fic about what such policies look like =E2=80=93 forwarding/routing, traffi= c engineering, security, QoS? A combination thereof?

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0supp= ort for metadata.=C2=A0

[CJ] You may want to elaborate on the usage of such metadata.

<PPE&g= t; Both of these are discussed in the requirement draft section 5.8.2, 5.8.= 3

If we have to add details would be best= to do it there

[CJ] I understand a WG charter has to be concise, but I don=E2=80=99t thin= k this should be at the cost of jeopardizing the understanding of what the = WG is trying to address/achieve.

=C2=A0


<PPE1> Yes t= his is where we are at odds. :-)

If we define here= what the metadata will cover - =C2=A0won't that be an issue of putting= everything else out of scope? Specifically,if we define opaque data then t= his should not necessarily defined in the charter. Same for the policies, a= re you advocating to put restrictions on the metadata and policy usage and = scope?

May be you should propose some wording here= and then everyone can converge on the list. ***


Ok

Addit= ionally, the control plane interface and protocol extensions that allow cli= ents to communicate[CJ]=C2=A0/negotiate=C2=A0w= ith that infrastructure will be covered.

<PPE> Why negotiate specifically? I think communicate = covers negotiation =C2=A0and exchange of information=C2=A0

[CJ] I don=E2=80=99t think commu= nication implies negotiation =E2=80=93 see also one of my previous comments= . Exchanging information is certainly not negotiation.


<PPE1> Do you intend = to introduce the notion of rejection of a communication by negotiation? To = be able to negotiate that implies you have communication exchange and it is= a processing of that communication exchange. For backward interoperability= , it would be best to not narrow this. Will defer to opinion of the communi= ty.
=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

The abstra= ction provided by a secured identity will give a new level of control for c= onfidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The working gr= oup will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized storage of= data and privacy considerations.

<= span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';color:rgb(11= 2,48,160)">[CJ] Not sure I understand the above two sentences. Did you mean= : =E2=80=9CThe common control plane is meant to provide hard guarantees abo= ut identity information, among other features. Such guarantees will facilit= ate the design and the operation of secured, trustworthy, and robust commun= ication services regardless of the underlying networked technologies and th= e various addressing/naming schemes they rely upon. The WG will take into a= ccount the need for such hard guarantees for the specification of the commo= n control plane, while making sure an appropriate balance can be found betw= een the amount of information that need to be maintained by the common cont= rol plane and the scalability/performance of the proposed approach.=E2=80= =9D?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= /span>

<PPE> What do you mean by hard guarantees?=C2=A0

[CJ] By hard guarantees, I meant trustworthy identity in= formation.


<= div><PPE1> =C2=A0"secured" identity implies that correct? I= MHO, hard guarantees is too vague a term.

Here is the newer version whi= ch also takes into account Tom's Comment

=

=C2=A0

"The im= plementation of secured identities can address some concerns regarding priv= acy, confidentiality, accountability, security and access-control. The work= ing group will cover these aspects and balance them with the minimized stor= age of data and privacy considerations."=C2=A0

[CJ] What aspects? The concerns mention= ed in the first sentence? If so, mentioning =E2=80=9Csome concerns=E2=80=9D= reads a bit fuzzy to me. Again, I think the charter needs to be specific a= nd in particular indicate clearly what will be covered and what will not.


<PPE1= > IMHO, we cannot imply that by having secured identities all concerns a= re covered hence the "some". Perhaps best you make a proposal for= this as well so everyone can converge.****
<= div>

Specifically, the I= DEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas:

=C2=A0

Overall architectu= re: This work covers the control plane, management, policy control, and sec= urity aspects.

=C2=A0=

Manageability of the architecture: The working g= roup will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components an= d the services that they provide.

= =C2=A0

Interface to the architectur= e: This work will cover interface interactions between the framework and id= entifier-enabled protocol.

=C2=A0

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will= collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP= , HIP, ILA and other relevant work.

[CJ] I think the WG should also capitalize the effort conducte= d by the above WGs, besides interop considerations.

<PPE> Is that a given? The &quo= t;relevant work" covers this aspect.=C2=A0

[CJ] The sentence says collaborate, which d= oes not imply capitalize afaic. What I meant is that ideas should not reinv= ent the wheel wherever there are already mechanisms/protocols/tools that ca= n serve its purpose.

&= lt;PPE1> I see what you mean and this is not the intent. Would this work= better?

Where appropriate, the IDEAS WG will coll= aborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP= , ILA and other relevant work. The WG will try to reuse technologies alread= y developed when appropriate.



--001a114428f46f8ea70550670a52-- From nobody Mon May 29 07:33:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486E51294EC for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:33:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UtwpbfqCSbft for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 211BB129401 for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C614E1204E2; Mon, 29 May 2017 16:33:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.69]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id AD345180063; Mon, 29 May 2017 16:33:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bc1c:ad2f:eda3:8c3d%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Mon, 29 May 2017 16:33:33 +0200 From: To: Padma Pillay-Esnault CC: "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHSzEaDuU9MmPcvyUyxxcNMHLc8KqH7PIDggADSl4CABjysAIAA/iTAgALGfoCABV/KIA== Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 14:33:33 +0000 Message-ID: <14672_1496068413_592C313D_14672_6969_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE143C6051@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <11988_1495177763_591E9A23_11988_203_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE1435D704@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6EE375D4-680D-41B9-A869-6C3D98865CEC@gmail.com> <16456_1495619765_592558B5_16456_382_5_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE14381BB3@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE143C6051OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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z11mr15102514wrc.11.1496253061039; Wed, 31 May 2017 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 31 May 2017 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:51:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: ideas@ietf.org Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f562e328dd90550d59002" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 17:51:06 -0000 --f403045f562e328dd90550d59002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello IDEAS Thank you for the feedback and comments on the first Charter Proposal. This version aims to capture your suggestions and comments. Please note that the document went through editorial changes for consistency, clarity and balance. I have also posted a version of it on GITHUB https://github.com/IETF-IDEAS/Charter-Proposal/blob/master/IDEAS%20Charter%= 20Proposal Your comments and feedback welcome. Thanks Padma Proposed Charter Identity-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being considered to support mobility solutions and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Likewise, Internet of Things (IOT), Machine-to-Machine (M2M) and 5G services, as well as context aware applications all can take advantage of discovery, stricter privacy and security functions. Identifier-locator separation protocols are examples of technology that require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. However, additional infrastructure is needed to address new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery. Examples of such requirements are: - Privacy: The use of long-lived and public identifiers may be desirable for looking up a peer, however it causes privacy issues as well. Indeed, the identifier-location pairs can be looked up without restriction and flows can be pinned by anybody to specific end systems. - Security: An identifier may reveal information to which the end-users may not want to be associated with. Therefore, users and network elements may wish to have a certain degree of control over this information to define who can read, write and delete it. The endpoint communications should be able to change their identifier while retaining their identity and associated policies. This indirection should help discourage unsolicited traffic or conceal their sensitive information to eavesdroppers. - Interoperability across id-locator infrastructures: In IoT, often technology specific solutions drive different naming and addressing scheme leading to deploying disjoint systems. However, several IoT and 5G scenarios require that identifier-locator infrastructures are able to interoperate and exchange information when deployed over different administrative domains. - Low Latency: The infrastructures must strive to minimize the latency for mission critical applications as well as quality user experience The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group is chartered to develop a framework that provides services that can be used to address those requirements and that can be used with any identity-based protocol. The framework includes the identifier-locator infrastructure and a common control plane for identifier related services and identifier=E2=80=93locati= on separation protocols. A common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between these heterogeneous environments Such communication may also imply some negotiation capabilities, e.g., when several Mapping Systems are managed by different entities. Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas for the framework: Features and properties: - Registration and lifecycle management of identities associated identifiers. - Definition of policies related to identities (e.g. access control to discovery) - Anonymization support (e.g. identifier anonymity to eavesdroppers) - Authenticated identity (access to framework, update of information for identifiers) - Definition and enforcement of policies (e.g. ability to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic, =E2=80=A6) - Identifier/locator mapping and resolution (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, multihoming..) - Metadata support (e.g. entity or endpoint attributes and properties). - Endpoint grouping support (e.g. negotiation to join, leave and communicate) - Robustness of the system against DDoS attacks (e.g. policies for access, rate limiting) The scope of system should be flexible and allow for different scopes such as local(private) or global(public). The scope of the mappings and their relevance within the scope will be taken into consideration for leaking of information. The negotiation of leaking of information from the private to global systems will be covered with the aim of minimal disruption and minimizing latency. The working group will balance the requirements for performance of the framework to provide secured, trustworthy, and robust communication services with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. The method for updating, caching and dissemination or leaking of information will be covered to ensure that state consistency and efficiency. The working group will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectural components and the services that they provide. The working group will identify gaps and make recommendations on changes needed for interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocols The IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work . Furthermore, it will try to reuse technologies already developed when appropriate. WG deliverables include: Overall Identity Services Framework WG sustaining/informational documents may include: These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: -Problem statement -Use cases -Requirements - Applications of the architecture for use cases Milestones Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for the Identity Services framework May 2018 WGLC for the Identity Services framework Aug 2018 Send Identity Services framework draft to the IESG --f403045f562e328dd90550d59002 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello IDEAS=

Thank you for the feedback and comments= on the first Charter Proposal.
This version aims to capture your suggestions and comments.
Please note that the docume= nt went through editorial changes for consistency, clarity and balance.

I have also posted a version of it on GITHUB = =C2=A0

Your comments and = feedback welcome.

Thanks
Padma


=

Proposed Charter=C2=A0

Identity-enabled solutions and applications are incr= easingly being considered to support mobility solutions and multi-homing across heterogeneous access networks. Likewise, Internet of Things (IOT), Machine-to-Machine (M2M) and 5G services, as well as context aware applicat= ions all can take advantage of discovery, stricter privacy and security function= s.

=C2=A0

Identifier-locator separation protocols are examples= of technology that require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery.=C2=A0 H= owever, additional infrastructure is needed to address new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Examples of such requirements are:

-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Privacy: =C2=A0The use of long-lived a= nd public identifiers may be desirable for looking up a peer, however it causes privacy issues as well. Indeed, the identifier-location pairs can be looked up without restriction and flows can be pinned by anybody to specific end systems.

-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Security: An identifier may reveal information to which the end-users may not want to be associated with. Therefore, users and network elements may wish to have a certain degr= ee of control over this information to define who can read, write and delete i= t. The endpoint communications should be able to change their identifier while retaining their identity and associated policies. This indirection should h= elp discourage unsolicited traffic or conceal their sensitive information to eavesdroppers.

-=C2=A0 Interoperability across id-locator infrastructures: In IoT, often technology specific soluti= ons drive different naming and addressing scheme leading to deploying disjoint systems. However, several IoT and 5G scenarios require that identifier-loca= tor infrastructures are able to interoperate and exchange information when depl= oyed over different administrative domains.=C2=A0

=C2=A0-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Low Latency: The infrastructures= must strive to minimize the latency for mission critical applications as well as qualit= y user experience

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = is chartered to develop a framework that provides services that can be used to= address those requirements and that can be used with any identity-based protocol. T= he framework includes the identifier-locator infrastructure and a common contr= ol plane for identifier related services and identifier=E2=80=93location separ= ation protocols. A common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the various naming/addressing schemes and the communication between these heterogeneous environments

Such communication may also imply some negotiation capabilities, e.g., when several Mapping Systems are managed by different entities.

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas for the framework:

=C2=A0

Features and properties:

- Registration and lifecycle management of identitie= s associated identifiers.

- Definition of policies related to identities (e.g.= access control to discovery)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

- Anonymization support (e.g. identifier anonymity t= o eavesdroppers)

- Authenticated identity (access to framework, updat= e of information for identifiers)

- Definition and enforcement of policies (e.g. abili= ty to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic, =E2=80=A6)

- Identifier/locator mapping and resolution (e.g. di= scovery, pub/sub, multihoming..)

- Metadata support (e.g. entity or endpoint attribut= es and properties).

- Endpoint grouping support (e.g. negotiation to joi= n, leave and communicate)

- Robustness of the system against DDoS attacks (e.g= . policies for access, rate limiting)

=C2=A0

The scope of system should be flexible and allow for different scopes such as local(private) or global(public). The scope of the mappings and their relevance within the scope will be taken into considerat= ion for leaking of information. The negotiation of leaking of information from = the private to global systems will be covered with the aim of minimal disruptio= n and minimizing latency.

=C2=A0

The working group will balance the requirements for performance of the framework to provide secured, trustworthy, and robust communication services with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. The method for updating, caching and dissemination or leaki= ng of information will be covered to ensure that state consistency and efficie= ncy.

=C2=A0

The working group will cover the management aspects = of IDEAS architectural components and the services that they provide. The working gr= oup will identify gaps and make recommendations on changes needed for interface interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocols

=C2=A0

The IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Gro= ups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work . Furth= ermore, it will try to reuse technologies already developed when appropriate.=

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall Identity Services Framework

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

- Applications of the architecture for use cases

=C2=A0

Milestones

Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for the Identity Services fr= amework

May 2018 WGLC for the Identity Services framework

Aug 2018 Send Identity Services framework draft to t= he IESG

=C2=A0
<= div>
--f403045f562e328dd90550d59002-- From nobody Wed May 31 11:39:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA25129A97 for ; Wed, 31 May 2017 11:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nOJbZYx7h41k for ; Wed, 31 May 2017 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F0C012945D for ; Wed, 31 May 2017 11:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DHR03332; Wed, 31 May 2017 18:38:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 31 May 2017 19:38:51 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.56]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.229]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 31 May 2017 11:38:48 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Padma Pillay-Esnault , "ideas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal Thread-Index: AQHS2jZ2+aBB3O6SVE2+YSwACppLSaIOvkyw Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 18:38:47 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BC2AF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.49.108] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BC2AFSJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A010203.592F0DBD.002F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.56, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 370d666a4272636a82bd0ea4cd42a1a8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." 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Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4014D12943C for ; Wed, 31 May 2017 12:46:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OnvlTToVljK for ; Wed, 31 May 2017 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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bh=7P91zRrhADbTmii0/kRsiDUJc5tGrW5KLetosxBL480=; b=YZ5GwSC2wVHMjkBpxNKlS689z9lLV5sHgaEc3i1I0VdnBrf0VDAPB1o/X9tHb7haCx abQP+YYmI3fOCg8NpsPS2HRsdXWYMzJAW9oQHfOJUe/rszIwXCGQ6wib5B1TErohV3wh M01s9a3j/lEaxsgZDVOXreBEMUzB7IwjMZMdQnumwt9v+MTl3/Rc/u9VKcj5GncE8dAK pio/BLkuKo2ziZz6BYfEZZt4rBwO6oHIDJolme69bdfHN+pJi6tE9TJmloKZFidxWqIN rflp7s5ymFnMoBc4azQcek+0ufTgc83WK3NSpSG9j3KF3vd4wnb05MlW40rTUOxI+8KI M6Xw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCxL5o4HlpDVk319cSs56M5Qolu9shPQ/hWz4K4W4syIHVPIkxK dtskK30cQ69qzDd2M6r/gcryxZiVbg== X-Received: by 10.28.129.139 with SMTP id c133mr6117528wmd.14.1496259959924; Wed, 31 May 2017 12:45:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.170.73 with HTTP; Wed, 31 May 2017 12:45:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BC2AF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854018BC2AF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Padma Pillay-Esnault Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 12:45:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Uma Chunduri Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" , Padma Pillay-Esnault Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11420926672d050550d72b11" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a Charter Proposal X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 19:46:05 -0000 --001a11420926672d050550d72b11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Uma Thanks for your review! Agree with your comments - will update Thanks Padma On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > Thanks for more refined version, which does reflect lot of discussion in > the mailing-list on the charter. > > Have few comments in-line below [Uma]: > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > *From:* Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Padma > Pillay-Esnault > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2017 10:51 AM > *To:* ideas@ietf.org > *Cc:* Padma Pillay-Esnault > *Subject:* Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a > Charter Proposal > > > > Hello IDEAS > > > > Thank you for the feedback and comments on the first Charter Proposal. > > This version aims to capture your suggestions and comments. > > Please note that the document went through editorial changes for > consistency, clarity and balance. > > > > I have also posted a version of it on GITHUB > > https://github.com/IETF-IDEAS/Charter-Proposal/blob/master/I > DEAS%20Charter%20Proposal > > > > Your comments and feedback welcome. > > > > Thanks > > Padma > > > > > > > > Proposed Charter > > > > Identity-enabled solutions and applications are increasingly being > considered to support mobility solutions and multi-homing across > heterogeneous access networks. Likewise, Internet of Things (IOT), > Machine-to-Machine (M2M) and 5G services, as well as context aware > applications all can take advantage of discovery, stricter privacy and > security functions. > > > > Identifier-locator separation protocols are examples of technology that > require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover the network > topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery. However, > additional infrastructure is needed to address new requirements that go > well beyond the traditional discovery service and mapping of > identifier-to-location for packet delivery. > > > > Examples of such requirements are: > > - Privacy: The use of long-lived and public identifiers may be > desirable for looking up a peer, however it causes privacy issues as well= . > Indeed, the identifier-location pairs can be looked up without restrictio= n > and flows can be pinned by anybody to specific end systems. > > [Uma]: The above depicts the gap in current identifier-location protocols > rather than requirement. May be you might want to add something similar > to=E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CPrivacy aspect is needed for looking up public ident= ifiers and also > for anonymizing the communication without being pinned by > man-in-the-middle=E2=80=9D. > - Security: An identifier may reveal information to which the end-users > may not want to be associated with. Therefore, users and network elements > may wish to have a certain degree of control over this information to > define who can read, write and delete it. The endpoint communications > should be able to change their identifier while retaining their identity > and associated policies. This indirection should help discourage > unsolicited traffic or conceal their sensitive information to > eavesdroppers. > > - Interoperability across id-locator infrastructures: > > [Uma]: id-locator =C3=A8 identifier-locator (as =E2=80=99id=E2=80=99 can = be used for both > Identity and Identifier at this point) > In IoT, often technology specific solutions drive different naming and > addressing scheme leading to deploying disjoint systems. However, several > IoT and 5G scenarios require that identifier-locator infrastructures are > able to interoperate and exchange information when deployed over differen= t > administrative domains. > > - Low Latency: The infrastructures must strive to minimize the latency > for mission critical applications as well as quality user experience > > > > The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group is chartered to > develop a framework that provides services that can be used to address > those requirements and that can be used with any identity-based protocol. > > [Uma]: identity-based protocol =C3=A8 Identifier-based protocol?? > > The framework includes the identifier-locator infrastructure and a common > control plane for identifier related services and identifier=E2=80=93loca= tion > separation protocols. A common control plane is required to facilitate th= e > dynamic discovery of the various naming/addressing schemes and the > communication between these heterogeneous environments > > Such communication may also imply some negotiation capabilities, e.g., > when several Mapping Systems are managed by different entities. > > > > Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on these areas for the > framework: > > > > Features and properties: > > - Registration and lifecycle management of identities associated > identifiers. > > - Definition of policies related to identities (e.g. access control to > discovery) > > - Anonymization support (e.g. identifier anonymity to eavesdroppers) > > - Authenticated identity (access to framework, update of information for > identifiers) > > - Definition and enforcement of policies (e.g. ability to look up an > identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic, =E2=80=A6) > > - Identifier/locator mapping and resolution (e.g. discovery, pub/sub, > multihoming..) > > - Metadata support (e.g. entity or endpoint attributes and properties). > > - Endpoint grouping support (e.g. negotiation to join, leave and > communicate) > > - Robustness of the system against DDoS attacks (e.g. policies for access= , > rate limiting) > > > > The scope of system should be flexible and allow for different scopes suc= h > as local(private) or global(public). The scope of the mappings and their > relevance within the scope will be taken into consideration for leaking o= f > information. The negotiation of leaking of information from the private t= o > global systems will be covered with the aim of minimal disruption and > minimizing latency. > > > > The working group will balance the requirements for performance of the > framework to provide secured, trustworthy, and robust communication > services with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations. > > The method for updating, caching and dissemination or leaking of > information will be covered to ensure that state consistency and efficien= cy. > > [Uma]: =E2=80=9CThe method for ..=E2=80=9D =C3=A8 =E2=80=9CA new Protocol= or an existing > Protocol extensions for =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > > The working group will cover the management aspects of IDEAS architectura= l > components and the services that they provide. The working group will > identify gaps and make recommendations on changes needed for interface > interactions between the framework and identifier-enabled protocols > > > > The IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Groups to ensure > interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work . Furthermor= e, > it will try to reuse technologies already developed when appropriate. > > > > WG deliverables include: > > Overall Identity Services Framework > > > > WG sustaining/informational documents may include: > > > > These documents may not necessarily be published, but may be > > maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Working Group wiki > > to support the efforts of the Working Group and help new comers: > > -Problem statement > > -Use cases > > -Requirements > > - Applications of the architecture for use cases > > > > Milestones > > Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for the Identity Services framework > > May 2018 WGLC for the Identity Services framework > > Aug 2018 Send Identity Services framework draft to the IESG > > > > > --001a11420926672d050550d72b11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Uma

Thanks for your review!

Agree with your comments - will update

Thanks
Padma

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Uma Chunduri <u= ma.chunduri@huawei.com> wrote:

Thanks for more refined version, which = does reflect lot of discussion in the mailing-list on the charter.

Have few comments in-line below [Uma]:

=C2=A0

--<= /span>

Uma C.

=C2=A0

From: Ideas [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Padma Pillay-Esnault
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 10:51 AM
To: ideas@ietf.o= rg
Cc: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Prep for BOF in July - Your input Needed on a C= harter Proposal

=C2=A0

Hello IDEAS

=C2=A0=

Thank you for the fe= edback and comments on the first Charter Proposal.

This version aims to= capture your suggestions and comments.

Please note that the= document went through editorial changes for consistency, clarity and balan= ce.

=C2=A0=

I have also posted a= version of it on GITHUB =C2=A0

=C2=A0=

Your comments and fe= edback welcome.

=C2=A0=

Thanks=

Padma<= /span>

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Proposed Charter=C2= =A0

=C2=A0=

Identity-enabled solutions and applications are incr= easingly being considered to support mobility solutions and multi-homing ac= ross heterogeneous access networks. Likewise, Internet of Things (IOT), Machine-to-Machine (M2M) and 5G services, as well as cont= ext aware applications all can take advantage of discovery, stricter privac= y and security functions.

=C2=A0

Identifier-locator separation protocols are examples= of technology that require infrastructure that allows nodes to discover th= e network topological location(s) of its peer(s) for packet delivery.=C2=A0 However, additional infrastructure is needed to add= ress new requirements that go well beyond the traditional discovery service= and mapping of identifier-to-location for packet delivery.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Examples of such requirements are:

-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Privacy: =C2=A0The use of long-lived a= nd public identifiers may be desirable for looking up a peer, however it ca= uses privacy issues as well. Indeed, the identifier-location pairs can be looked up without restriction and flows can be pinned by anybody to= specific end systems.

[Uma]: The above depicts the g= ap in current identifier-location protocols rather than requirement. May be you might want to add =C2=A0something similar to=E2=80=93 =E2=80=9C= Privacy aspect is needed for looking up public identifiers and also for ano= nymizing the communication without being pinned by man-in-the-middle=E2=80= =9D.=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Security: An ide= ntifier may reveal information to which the end-users may not want to be associated with. Therefore, users and network elements may wish to have a = certain degree of control over this information to define who can read, wri= te and delete it. The endpoint communications should be able to change thei= r identifier while retaining their identity and associated policies. This indirection should help discourage = unsolicited traffic or conceal their sensitive information to eavesdroppers= .

-=C2=A0 Interoperability across id-locator infrastru= ctures:

[Uma]: id-locator =C3=A8 identifier-locator (as =E2=80=99id=E2=80=99 c= an be used for both Identity and Identifier at this point)

=

In IoT, often technology specific solutions drive di= fferent naming and addressing scheme leading to deploying disjoint systems.= However, several IoT and 5G scenarios require that identifier-locator infrastructures are able to interoperate and exchange i= nformation when deployed over different administrative domains.=C2=A0

=C2=A0-=C2=A0=C2=A0 Low Latency: The infrastructures= must strive to minimize the latency for mission critical applications as w= ell as quality user experience

=C2=A0

The Identity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) working group = is chartered to develop a framework that provides services that can be used= to address those requirements and that can be used with any identity-based protocol.

[Uma]: identity-based protocol =C3=A8 Identifier-based protocol??

The framework includes the identifier-locator infras= tructure and a common control plane for identifier related services and ide= ntifier=E2=80=93location separation protocols. A common control plane is required to facilitate the dynamic discovery of the various namin= g/addressing schemes and the communication between these heterogeneous envi= ronments

Such communication may also imply some negotiation c= apabilities, e.g., when several Mapping Systems are managed by different en= tities.

=C2=A0

Specifically, the IDEAS WG is chartered to work on t= hese areas for the framework:

=C2=A0

Features and properties:

- Registration and lifecycle management of identitie= s associated identifiers.

- Definition of policies related to identities (e.g.= access control to discovery)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

- Anonymization support (e.g. identifier anonymity t= o eavesdroppers)

- Authenticated identity (access to framework, updat= e of information for identifiers)

- Definition and enforcement of policies (e.g. abili= ty to look up an identifier-locator pair, permit forwarding traffic, =E2=80= =A6)

- Identifier/locator mapping and resolution (e.g. di= scovery, pub/sub, multihoming..)

- Metadata support (e.g. entity or endpoint attribut= es and properties).

- Endpoint grouping support (e.g. negotiation to joi= n, leave and communicate)

- Robustness of the system against DDoS attacks (e.g= . policies for access, rate limiting)

=C2=A0

The scope of system should be flexible and allow for= different scopes such as local(private) or global(public). The scope of th= e mappings and their relevance within the scope will be taken into consideration for leaking of information. The negotiation of= leaking of information from the private to global systems will be covered = with the aim of minimal disruption and minimizing latency.

=C2=A0

The working group will balance the requirements for = performance of the framework to provide secured, trustworthy, and robust co= mmunication services with the minimized storage of data and privacy considerations.

The method for updating, caching and dissemination o= r leaking of information will be covered to ensure that state consistency a= nd efficiency.

[Uma]: =E2=80=9CThe method for= ..=E2=80=9D =C3=A8 =E2=80=9CA new Protocol or an existing Protoc= ol=C2=A0extensions for =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

The working group will cover the management aspects = of IDEAS architectural components and the services that they provide. The w= orking group will identify gaps and make recommendations on changes needed for interface interactions between the framework and ide= ntifier-enabled protocols

=C2=A0

The IDEAS WG will collaborate with other Working Gro= ups to ensure interoperability with LISP, HIP, ILA and other relevant work = . Furthermore, it will try to reuse technologies already developed when appropriate.

=C2=A0

WG deliverables include:

Overall Identity Services Framework

=C2=A0

WG sustaining/informational documents may include:

=C2=A0

These documents may not necessarily be published, bu= t may be

maintained in a draft form or on a collaborative Wor= king Group wiki

to support the efforts of the Working Group and help= new comers:

-Problem statement

-Use cases

-Requirements

- Applications of the architecture for use cases<= /u>

=C2=A0

Milestones

Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for the Identity Services fr= amework

May 2018 WGLC for the Identity Services framework=

Aug 2018 Send Identity Services framework draft to t= he IESG

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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