From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov  1 20:21:38 2000
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From: Hal Sandick <hsandick@nortelnetworks.com>
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To: Isidor Kouvelas <kouvelas@cisco.com>
CC: LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE <pierre.levis@rd.francetelecom.fr>,
        idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: igmpv3
References: <200010311956.LAA05846@kouvelas-u10.cisco.com>
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Isidor,

From my read I think the issue is that the sentence "If a router is not
explicitly configured to use  IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1 Query or IGMPv2 Query,
it SHOULD log a warning." implies that a igmpv2 query would trigger a warning.
Doesn't sound right.

regards,

Hal

Isidor Kouvelas wrote:

> There is no mechanism in IGMP to handle routers on the same LAN
> configured with different versions of IGMP. It is up to the
> administrator to make sure all the routers are configured with
> the same version. This is why the action upon detecting a
> missconfigured router is to log a warning.
>
> thanks
> I
>
> LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE writes:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >In section 7.3.1. of <draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt> one can read: "If a
> >router is not explicitly configured to use IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1 Query
> >or IGMPv2 Query, it SHOULD log a warning." That would suggest that a router
> >explicitly configured to use IGMPv2 should log a warning when it hears an
> >IGMPv2 Query. I wonder if it is really what is intended and if so, why?
> >
> >Pierre



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov  2 06:44:18 2000
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From: LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE <pierre.levis@rd.francetelecom.fr>
To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: RE: igmpv3
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:36:41 +0100
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Yes exactly,

I don't understand why a router which IS explicitly configured to use IGMPv2
should log a warning when it hears an IGMPv2 Query, whereas, it IS precisely
the same version.

Pierre


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Hal Sandick [mailto:hsandick@nortelnetworks.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 1 novembre 2000 20:16
À : Isidor Kouvelas
Cc : LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE; idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Objet : Re: igmpv3


Isidor,

From my read I think the issue is that the sentence "If a router is not
explicitly configured to use  IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1 Query or IGMPv2
Query,
it SHOULD log a warning." implies that a igmpv2 query would trigger a
warning.
Doesn't sound right.

regards,

Hal

Isidor Kouvelas wrote:

> There is no mechanism in IGMP to handle routers on the same LAN
> configured with different versions of IGMP. It is up to the
> administrator to make sure all the routers are configured with
> the same version. This is why the action upon detecting a
> missconfigured router is to log a warning.
>
> thanks
> I
>
> LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE writes:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >In section 7.3.1. of <draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt> one can read: "If a
> >router is not explicitly configured to use IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1
Query
> >or IGMPv2 Query, it SHOULD log a warning." That would suggest that a
router
> >explicitly configured to use IGMPv2 should log a warning when it hears an
> >IGMPv2 Query. I wonder if it is really what is intended and if so, why?
> >
> >Pierre


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov  2 18:12:31 2000
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To: LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE <pierre.levis@rd.francetelecom.fr>
cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: igmpv3
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:36:41 +0100." <91A311FF6A85D3118DDF0060080C3D82095006@lat3721.lannion.cnet.fr>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:11:21 -0800
From: Isidor Kouvelas <kouvelas@cisco.com>
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I am sorry, I completely missed the point on the first email. You are
quite right. A router configured for v2 should not log a warning when
it receives a v2 query.

thanks
I

LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE writes:
>Yes exactly,
>
>I don't understand why a router which IS explicitly configured to use IGMPv2
>should log a warning when it hears an IGMPv2 Query, whereas, it IS precisely
>the same version.
>
>Pierre
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Hal Sandick [mailto:hsandick@nortelnetworks.com]
>Envoyé : mercredi 1 novembre 2000 20:16
>À : Isidor Kouvelas
>Cc : LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE; idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
>Objet : Re: igmpv3
>
>
>Isidor,
>
>From my read I think the issue is that the sentence "If a router is not
>explicitly configured to use  IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1 Query or IGMPv2
>Query,
>it SHOULD log a warning." implies that a igmpv2 query would trigger a
>warning.
>Doesn't sound right.
>
>regards,
>
>Hal
>
>Isidor Kouvelas wrote:
>
>> There is no mechanism in IGMP to handle routers on the same LAN
>> configured with different versions of IGMP. It is up to the
>> administrator to make sure all the routers are configured with
>> the same version. This is why the action upon detecting a
>> missconfigured router is to log a warning.
>>
>> thanks
>> I
>
>> LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE writes:
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >In section 7.3.1. of <draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt> one can read: "If a
>> >router is not explicitly configured to use IGMPv1 and hears an IGMPv1
>Query
>> >or IGMPv2 Query, it SHOULD log a warning." That would suggest that a
>router
>> >explicitly configured to use IGMPv2 should log a warning when it hears an
>> >IGMPv2 Query. I wonder if it is really what is intended and if so, why?
>> >
>> >Pierre


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Mon Nov  6 14:47:54 2000
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From: Peter Lewis <peter.lewis@upperside.fr>
To: idmr <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: IP.Net
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:14:57 +0100
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=20
IP.Net=20
The IP private networks 2001 Event:
VPNs, security, VoIP, broadband access, SLAs.
A call for proposals is online at:
http://www.upperside.fr/baipnet


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href=3D"http://www.upperside.fr/baipnet">http://www.upperside.fr/baipnet<=
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From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov  9 14:16:45 2000
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From: almeroth@cs.ucsb.edu (Kevin C. Almeroth)
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To: PNatusch@unispherenetworks.com, idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
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>>I have heard that someone is working on some extending mtrace with the
>>functionality found in mrm.  Is there a draft available for this?
>>If not does anyone have any idea of when a draft might be available?

Two things:

   1.  I haven't heard of any such thing.

   2.  I don't know what it means to "extend mtrace with the 
       functionality found in mrm".  Could you please explain what
       you mean.

-Kevin


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov  9 14:17:16 2000
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I have heard that someone is working on some extending mtrace with the
functionality found in mrm.  Is there a draft available for this?
If not does anyone have any idea of when a draft might be available?

thanks
Paul



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 14 15:48:17 2000
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From: jhall@UU.NET (Jeremy Hall)
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Subject: Re: Is IGMP necessary for permanent memberships in administratively 
         scoped multicast region?
In-Reply-To: <3A11732E.A91962F7@ra.comm.mot.com> from Radha Thothadri at "Nov 14, 2000 11:15:26 am"
To: Radha Thothadri <radhat@comm.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:32:05 -0500 (EST)
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The routers will use IGMP to know who the receivers are. Unless you are
building EVERYTHING from scratch, including your forwarding architecture,
IGMP is required.  The kernel of whatever client machine you are using
will want to set the ethernet card up for the appropriate multicast
groups.

_J

In the new year, Radha Thothadri wrote:
> I am doing some research on a prototype based on administratively scoped
> multicast addresses. The hosts in my model are going to be members of a
> few multicast groups permanently; these multicast groups are assigned
> static administratively scoped multicast addresses and multicast packets
> are restricted to the single network. Under these conditions of
> permanent memberships in multicast groups, do the hosts still need to
> send IGMP messages to report their groups? If IGMP reports have to sent,
> can this be restricted to a one-time report or do the hosts have to
> provide unsolicited reports. Please let me know if IGMP has to be 
> implemented at all under these conditions. 
> Thank you very much.
> Regards,
> Radha Thothadri
> 



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To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Is IGMP necessary for permanent memberships in administratively scoped 
         multicast region?
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I am doing some research on a prototype based on administratively scoped
multicast addresses. The hosts in my model are going to be members of a
few multicast groups permanently; these multicast groups are assigned
static administratively scoped multicast addresses and multicast packets
are restricted to the single network. Under these conditions of
permanent memberships in multicast groups, do the hosts still need to
send IGMP messages to report their groups? If IGMP reports have to sent,
can this be restricted to a one-time report or do the hosts have to
provide unsolicited reports. Please let me know if IGMP has to be 
implemented at all under these conditions. 
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Radha Thothadri


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 14 19:25:37 2000
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To: jhall@UU.NET (Jeremy Hall)
cc: Radha Thothadri <radhat@comm.mot.com>, idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Is IGMP necessary for permanent memberships in administratively 
         scoped multicast region?
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:32:05 EST." <QQjphy19411.200011142032@neserve0.corp.us.uu.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:48:14 -0800
From: "John M. Zwiebel" <jzwiebel@cisco.com>
Sender: owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
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Radha:

You _might_ consider using:
    [no] ip igmp static-group <group-address> | "*"

This way you would avoid the IGMP host reports.

However, I don't think you will gain much.  It will eliminate the
IGMP host report requirement, but at the expense of other configuration
problems.

I'm interested in discovering how you plan on setting up the 
administrative scope for your data.  If you are using PIM and
plan on using a bootstrap router, be advised that you can not
set up admin scopes for the RP.  It is possible, but difficult,
using auto-rp.  If you actually deploy the admin scopes, you'd be
the first one that I've heard of actually doing it.  (Don't mean
to suggest that there aren't thousands who have, just that I
don't know about it.)

z

 ^ The routers will use IGMP to know who the receivers are. Unless you are
 ^ building EVERYTHING from scratch, including your forwarding architecture,
 ^ IGMP is required.  The kernel of whatever client machine you are using
 ^ will want to set the ethernet card up for the appropriate multicast
 ^ groups.
 ^ 
 ^ _J
 ^ 
 ^ In the new year, Radha Thothadri wrote:
 ^ > I am doing some research on a prototype based on administratively scoped
 ^ > multicast addresses. The hosts in my model are going to be members of a
 ^ > few multicast groups permanently; these multicast groups are assigned
 ^ > static administratively scoped multicast addresses and multicast packets
 ^ > are restricted to the single network. Under these conditions of
 ^ > permanent memberships in multicast groups, do the hosts still need to
 ^ > send IGMP messages to report their groups? If IGMP reports have to sent,
 ^ > can this be restricted to a one-time report or do the hosts have to
 ^ > provide unsolicited reports. Please let me know if IGMP has to be 
 ^ > implemented at all under these conditions. 
 ^ > Thank you very much.
 ^ > Regards,
 ^ > Radha Thothadri
 ^ > 
 ^ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	John Zwiebel                       Phone: 408-526-5303
	Cisco Systems Inc.                 
	IP Multicast Group                   



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Sun Nov 26 08:27:06 2000
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Message-ID: <3A20F205.D93A59AE@loria.fr>
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:20:37 +0100
From: Ghassan Chaddoud <Ghassan.Chaddoud@loria.fr>
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To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Implementation of IGMPv3
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Hi all,

I'll implement a prototype based on IGMPv3, can any one tell me where
can find an implementation of it.

Regards

 
Ghassan


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Sun Nov 26 15:47:48 2000
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From: Wilbert de Graaf <wilbertdg@hetnet.nl>
To: Ghassan Chaddoud <Ghassan.Chaddoud@loria.fr>, idmr <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
References: <3A20F205.D93A59AE@loria.fr>
Subject: Re: Implementation of IGMPv3
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:31:36 -0800
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Hi Ghassan,

I'm not sure if you want a host implementation or a router implementation.
Most router implementations bring their own version. As far as I know, there
are 3 implementations available: for FreeBSD, Linux and Microsoft Whistler
(successor of W2K).

FreeBSD: http://home.hetnet.nl/~wilbertdg/igmp.html

Linux:
http://www.sprintlabs.com/Department/IP-Interworking/multicast/linux-igmpv3/

- Wilbert


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ghassan Chaddoud" <Ghassan.Chaddoud@loria.fr>
To: <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:20 AM
Subject: Implementation of IGMPv3


> Hi all,
>
> I'll implement a prototype based on IGMPv3, can any one tell me where
> can find an implementation of it.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Ghassan



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Sun Nov 26 15:48:10 2000
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--==i3.9.0oisdboibsd((kncd--



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Sun Nov 26 18:18:13 2000
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Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:50:16 -0800
From: Wilbert de Graaf <wilbertdg@hetnet.nl>
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Really sorry about the virus that came with my previous reply.

(I did get quite some automated virus alerts.)

- Wilbert


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Sun Nov 26 20:24:30 2000
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To: Ghassan Chaddoud <Ghassan.Chaddoud@loria.fr>
cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Implementation of IGMPv3
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:20:37 +0100." <3A20F205.D93A59AE@loria.fr>
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>I'll implement a prototype based on IGMPv3, can any one tell me where
>can find an implementation of it.

Wilbert de Graaf has done a very complete host implementation for
FreeBSD 4.x. Documentation and code are at:
  http://home.hetnet.nl/~wilbertdg/igmpv3.html

This is probably relatively easily ported to other BSD-based OSes.

The group at Sprint Labs have done a Linux implementation:
  http://www.sprintlabs.com/Department/IP-Interworking/multicast/linux-igmpv3/

Microsoft and Cisco also have code, although not in any currently
shipping OS.

Cheers,
	Mark



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 15:44:55 2000
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Subject: Re: Implementation of IGMPv3
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:33:56 PST." <43657.975260036@hazard.aciri.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:42:21 -0800
From: "John M. Zwiebel" <jzwiebel@cisco.com>
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Cisco's IGMPv3 (and other Source Specific Multicast) is in 12.1(5)T.
If this isn't already available, it will be very soon.


 ^ 
 ^ >I'll implement a prototype based on IGMPv3, can any one tell me where
 ^ >can find an implementation of it.
 ^ 
 ^ Wilbert de Graaf has done a very complete host implementation for
 ^ FreeBSD 4.x. Documentation and code are at:
 ^   http://home.hetnet.nl/~wilbertdg/igmpv3.html
 ^ 
 ^ This is probably relatively easily ported to other BSD-based OSes.
 ^ 
 ^ The group at Sprint Labs have done a Linux implementation:
 ^   http://www.sprintlabs.com/Department/IP-Interworking/multicast/linux-igmpv
    3/
 ^ 
 ^ Microsoft and Cisco also have code, although not in any currently
 ^ shipping OS.
 ^ 
 ^ Cheers,
 ^ 	Mark
 ^ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	John Zwiebel                       Phone: 408-526-5303
	Cisco Systems Inc.                 
	IP Multicast Group                   



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 19:47:57 2000
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Subject: WG Last Call: DVMRP spec, Applicablility Statement and MIB to Proposed 
         Standard
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:36:28 -0800
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:36:28 -0800
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Dear IDMR WG,

  This is a Working Group Last Call for the DVMRP spec,
draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-v3-10.{txt,ps}, the DVMRP Applicability Statement,
draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-v3-as-00.{txt,ps}, and the DVMRP MIB,
draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-mib-12.txt .

  (Note that draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-v3-09 and draft-ietf-idmr-dvmrp-mib-10
passed IDMR WG last call in November 1999.)

  Since the revisions are simply to address problems raised at the
previous Last Call, this WG last call will be a little shorter
than normal.  Please comment by Monday, December 4, 2000, on the IDMR
mailing list <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk> or directly to the authors or WG chair
<fenner@research.att.com>.

Thanks,
  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 19:48:15 2000
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From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
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To: rcoltun@redback.com, oran@cisco.com
Subject: Advancement of IGMP Router Discovery to Proposed Standard
Cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk, ietf-secretariat@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:31:51 -0800
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Dear Rob and Dave,

  The IDMR Working Group would like to advance the IGMP Router Discovery
spec, draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-mrdisc-05.txt to Proposed Standard.  Version
-04 of this document passed an IDMR Working Group Last Call on July 28,
2000; this updated version addresses a couple of minor issues that were
raised during the last call.  A summary of the fixes:

  - Fixed typo on the number of new messages
  - Removed checking of IGMP type as part of verification step
  - Added wording to allow for rate-limite logging of invalid
    messages
  - Corrected the use of the word "router" in sending messages

Thanks,
  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 19:52:16 2000
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Subject: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:36:05 -0800
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Dear IDMR WG,

  IGMP Version 3, draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt, went through a WG last
call with a couple of items raised at the IETF meeting in Pittsburgh.
draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.{txt,ps} includes updates for these items.
I want to give the WG a chance to look at the document again before
submitting it to the IESG.  The changes include:

- Requiring the abstract API to return an error when including too many
  sources, instead of allowing it to switch to EXCLUDE mode.  This
  function interfered with source-specific multicast.

- Change "it may be delivered on.." to "it will be delivered on.." to
  make it clear that kernel filtering based upon socket memberships
  is required.  Added a note that this is a new feature of this API
  and that RFC1112 didn't require it.

- Change "Max Response Time" and "Querier's Query Interval" to
  "Max Response Code" and "Querier's Query Interval Code".  The
  original values are now derived from the codes, allowing values
  greater than 128 to be treated as exponential.  This allows the
  maximum value of Max Response Time to represent 52 minutes instead
  of 25.5 seconds, and the maximum value of Querier's Query Interval
  is somewhere around 8.5 hours.

- Change "forward packets" and "stop forwarding packets" to wording
  about informing the routing protocol of interest and lack of interest.
  IGMP does not make the decision about when to forward packets (e.g.
  when there are multiple upstreams, the routing protocol elects the
  proper forwarder, which then uses IGMP to gauge interest)

- Added section 8.13, giving advice on how to configure IGMP's
  tunable parameters.

- Mentioned IPSEC AH in Security Considerations.  Also point out the
  potential DoS attack in Group-and-Source-specific Queries with long
  Max Resp Time and/or with a large source list.

Since there were so many changes, I thought it best to do another WG
last call.  Please comment by Wednesday, December 13, 2000, on the IDMR
mailing list <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk> or directly to working group chair,
<fenner@research.att.com>.  (Note that this time frame includes the
upcoming IDMR WG meeting in San Diego, so feel free to save your comments
til then.)

Thanks,
  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 28 02:49:45 2000
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To: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Location of IGMPv3 draft -05
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:03:56 -0800
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The -05 draft was submitted before the deadline, but until it makes
its way through the queue it's available here:

http://www.research.att.com/~fenner/mcast/igmpv3/draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.txt
http://www.research.att.com/~fenner/mcast/igmpv3/draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.ps

  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 28 10:11:08 2000
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:31:16 +0530
From: Vijay Anand Chandrasekar <vijay.chand@wipro.com>
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To: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>, idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Fw: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
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During the last call for standardisation of IGMPv3 given about 3 months back
the need for incorporating network masks along with the source-group was
discussed at length in the mailing list.Has that feature been incorporated in
the new revision which is to be standardised.

Regards,
Vijay



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
> To: <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 6:06 AM
> Subject: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
>
> > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:36:05 -0800
> > Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.2g
> >
> >
> > Dear IDMR WG,
> >
> >   IGMP Version 3, draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt, went through a WG last
> > call with a couple of items raised at the IETF meeting in Pittsburgh.
> > draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.{txt,ps} includes updates for these items.
> > I want to give the WG a chance to look at the document again before
> > submitting it to the IESG.  The changes include:
> >
> > - Requiring the abstract API to return an error when including too many
> >   sources, instead of allowing it to switch to EXCLUDE mode.  This
> >   function interfered with source-specific multicast.
> >
> > - Change "it may be delivered on.." to "it will be delivered on.." to
> >   make it clear that kernel filtering based upon socket memberships
> >   is required.  Added a note that this is a new feature of this API
> >   and that RFC1112 didn't require it.
> >
> > - Change "Max Response Time" and "Querier's Query Interval" to
> >   "Max Response Code" and "Querier's Query Interval Code".  The
> >   original values are now derived from the codes, allowing values
> >   greater than 128 to be treated as exponential.  This allows the
> >   maximum value of Max Response Time to represent 52 minutes instead
> >   of 25.5 seconds, and the maximum value of Querier's Query Interval
> >   is somewhere around 8.5 hours.
> >
> > - Change "forward packets" and "stop forwarding packets" to wording
> >   about informing the routing protocol of interest and lack of interest.
> >   IGMP does not make the decision about when to forward packets (e.g.
> >   when there are multiple upstreams, the routing protocol elects the
> >   proper forwarder, which then uses IGMP to gauge interest)
> >
> > - Added section 8.13, giving advice on how to configure IGMP's
> >   tunable parameters.
> >
> > - Mentioned IPSEC AH in Security Considerations.  Also point out the
> >   potential DoS attack in Group-and-Source-specific Queries with long
> >   Max Resp Time and/or with a large source list.
> >
> > Since there were so many changes, I thought it best to do another WG
> > last call.  Please comment by Wednesday, December 13, 2000, on the IDMR
> > mailing list <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk> or directly to working group chair,
> > <fenner@research.att.com>.  (Note that this time frame includes the
> > upcoming IDMR WG meeting in San Diego, so feel free to save your comments
> > til then.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >   Bill



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Nov 28 15:15:57 2000
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To: vijay.chand@wipro.com
Subject: Re: Fw: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
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We determined on the mailing list and in the working group that
a) there was a rough consensus against netmasks (obviously with some
   dissent)
b) IGMPv3 has extension fields that can be used to carry netmasks if
   it becomes important.

  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 05:06:30 2000
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From: LEVIS Pierre FTRD/DMI/CAE <pierre.levis@rd.francetelecom.fr>
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Subject: RE: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
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I have a question about section 6.3 "IGMPv3 Source-Specific Forwarding
Rules" whose wording has changed in draft 5. I wonder to what extent the
filtering capabilities of IGMPv3 depend on the current routing protocol
implemented in the routers. I wonder whether the role of IGMPv3 is only to
convey membership information, the handling of this information being
entirely up to the routing protocol, or if IGMPv3 can force in certain
circumstances, a router to filter traffic whatever the routing protocol is.
In the former alternative IGMPv3 has no filtering capability per se.

Let's have an example:

Assume a host is requesting one source for a given group, e.g. a Group
Record "IS_IN(s1) for G" is sent to its router. Assume the routing protocol
implemented in the router can only do (*,G) joins, assume there's no other
request for this group and there's no more router downstream. Consider the
following scenarios: 

a) A (*,G) is processed, the whole traffic from the group is retrieved up to
the router, the router delivers all sources onto the host network

b) A (*,G) is processed, the whole traffic from the group is retrieved up to
the router, the router filters, and forwards only source s1 onto the host
network

c) The report is not taken into account at all

What is (are) the correct behavior(s) for the router? 

According to the previous wording of section 6.3 "IGMPv3 Source-Specific
Forwarding Rules" in <draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt> I would say a) is NOT
a correct behavior, according to the new wording in
<draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.txt> I'm not so sure.

What do you think?

Pierre

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bill Fenner [mailto:fenner@research.att.com]
Envoyé : mardi 28 novembre 2000 01:36
À : idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Objet : WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard


Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:36:05 -0800
Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.2g


Dear IDMR WG,

  IGMP Version 3, draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-04.txt, went through a WG last
call with a couple of items raised at the IETF meeting in Pittsburgh.
draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.{txt,ps} includes updates for these items.
I want to give the WG a chance to look at the document again before
submitting it to the IESG.  The changes include:

- Requiring the abstract API to return an error when including too many
  sources, instead of allowing it to switch to EXCLUDE mode.  This
  function interfered with source-specific multicast.

- Change "it may be delivered on.." to "it will be delivered on.." to
  make it clear that kernel filtering based upon socket memberships
  is required.  Added a note that this is a new feature of this API
  and that RFC1112 didn't require it.

- Change "Max Response Time" and "Querier's Query Interval" to
  "Max Response Code" and "Querier's Query Interval Code".  The
  original values are now derived from the codes, allowing values
  greater than 128 to be treated as exponential.  This allows the
  maximum value of Max Response Time to represent 52 minutes instead
  of 25.5 seconds, and the maximum value of Querier's Query Interval
  is somewhere around 8.5 hours.

- Change "forward packets" and "stop forwarding packets" to wording
  about informing the routing protocol of interest and lack of interest.
  IGMP does not make the decision about when to forward packets (e.g.
  when there are multiple upstreams, the routing protocol elects the
  proper forwarder, which then uses IGMP to gauge interest)

- Added section 8.13, giving advice on how to configure IGMP's
  tunable parameters.

- Mentioned IPSEC AH in Security Considerations.  Also point out the
  potential DoS attack in Group-and-Source-specific Queries with long
  Max Resp Time and/or with a large source list.

Since there were so many changes, I thought it best to do another WG
last call.  Please comment by Wednesday, December 13, 2000, on the IDMR
mailing list <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk> or directly to working group chair,
<fenner@research.att.com>.  (Note that this time frame includes the
upcoming IDMR WG meeting in San Diego, so feel free to save your comments
til then.)

Thanks,
  Bill


From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 09:00:36 2000
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Inter-Domain Multicast Routing Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Internet Group Management Protocol, Version 3
	Author(s)	: B. Cain, S. Deering, I. Kouvelas, A. Thyagarajan
	Filename	: draft-ietf-idmr-igmp-v3-05.txt,.ps
	Pages		: 50
	Date		: 28-Nov-00
	
This document specifies Version 3 of the Internet Group Management
Protocol, IGMPv3.  IGMP is the protocol used by IPv4 systems to report
their IP multicast group memberships to neighboring multicast routers.
Version 3 of IGMP adds support for 'source filtering', that is, the
ability for a system to report interest in receiving packets *only* from
specific source addresses, or from *all but* specific source addresses,
sent to a particular multicast address.  That information may be used by
multicast routing protocols to avoid delivering multicast packets from
specific sources to networks where there are no interested receivers.

This document is a product of the Inter-Domain Multicast Routing working
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From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 13:17:39 2000
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Subject: Java and IGMP
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Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so that it can see 
IGMP packets?

Tom



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Tom LODGE wrote:

> Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so that it can see
> IGMP packets?
>
> Tom

We did a test player using the Java Media Framework -

http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jmf/

which worked, so it must have sent IGMP - and thus, had to listen to IGMP as well.
I don't know about the details, as I was not directly involved.

--
                                 Regards
                                 Marshall Eubanks



T.M. Eubanks
Multicast Technologies, Inc
10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 410
Fairfax, Virginia 22030
Phone : 703-293-9624
Fax     : 703-293-9609
e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     tme@multicasttech.com

http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com




From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 15:46:29 2000
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:00:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Alberto Cerpa <cerpa@ISI.EDU>
To: Tom LODGE <T.Lodge@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Java and IGMP
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A rather indirect way to do achieve this, it's by using the Java Native
Interface.  This is how the ISI's Java RSVP implementation works in native
mode.

Regards,
-Alberto.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Tom LODGE wrote:

> Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so that it can see 
> IGMP packets?
> 
> Tom
> 
> 



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 15:46:36 2000
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To: pierre.levis@rd.francetelecom.fr
Subject: RE: WG Last Call: IGMP Version 3 to Proposed Standard
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>Assume a host is requesting one source for a given group, e.g. a Group
>Record "IS_IN(s1) for G" is sent to its router. Assume the routing protocol
>implemented in the router can only do (*,G) joins, assume there's no other
>request for this group and there's no more router downstream. Consider the
>following scenarios: 
>
>a) A (*,G) is processed, the whole traffic from the group is retrieved up to
>the router, the router delivers all sources onto the host network
>
>b) A (*,G) is processed, the whole traffic from the group is retrieved up to
>the router, the router filters, and forwards only source s1 onto the host
>network
>
>c) The report is not taken into account at all
>
>What is (are) the correct behavior(s) for the router? 

b) is the correct behavior.  The wording was changed because there might
be multiple upstream routers, and the routing protocol has to be allowed
to choose the correct one; the previous wording implied that all routers
would forward and the routing protocol didn't have any choice in the
matter.

The need for a document describing exactly how routing protocols react
to IGMPv3 information has been identified; however a new author for this
document needs to be identified since the person who volunteered seems
to have disappeared.

  Bill


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To: Tom LODGE <T.Lodge@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Java and IGMP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:20:56 GMT." <1453.975514856@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:36:02 -0800
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 ^ Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so that it can se
    e 
 ^ IGMP packets?
 ^ 

Tom:

FWIW, I'm "assuming" that you want to do this so you can get your
browser to start up a multicast application.  If not, well, here's 
some information you might use anyway.

The university of Oregon is doing SSM (Source Specific Multicast) testing:
  http://videolab.uoregon.edu/

And they have pointers to the IGMPv3 stacks for FreeBSD and Linux.

They also have a project that supports URD (Universal Resource Directory)
that uses a cgi script and IOS 12.1(5)T (available since 28 Nov) to
support SSM.  URD does not require any update on the application or
the host stack to make it work.  URD uses a HTML redirect that is 
intercepted by the last hop router to give the last hop both the
Source and Group address.  The last-hop then triggers a PIM (S,G) join
toward the source without building a shared-tree.   (Like all SSM)

I can provide you with a kludge cgi script if you are interested, but
the UofO has a much better one.

12.1(5)T supports URD, v3-lite and IGMPv3  (IGMPv3 is not supported
on the router as a host)

More information is available at:
  ftp://ftp-eng/ipmulticast/ssm/index.html


I hope this information helps you follow a different path to your goal.

z


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	John Zwiebel                       Phone: 408-526-5303
	Cisco Systems Inc.                 
	IP Multicast Group                   



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov 30 05:25:18 2000
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Subject: Re: Java and IGMP
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In message <Pine.GSO.4.21.0011291056240.22837-100000@boreas.isi.edu>, Alberto C
erpa typed:

 >>A rather indirect way to do achieve this, it's by using the Java Native
 >>Interface.  This is how the ISI's Java RSVP implementation works in native
 >>mode.
 
 Alberto,


yes - i think our problem is that we don't want to do too much
violvence to the java secuity model (not that anyone thinks much of it
w.r.t multicast yet..though there are some reasonable initial stabs at
it) - reason is tha tthe context of the work is for a proxylet (or
servlet or maybe applet)


actually, in general, a secure api/class library (with access control
integrated with sudo and/or other
things) for 
java to packet filters would be the general solution....

 >>
 >>On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Tom LODGE wrote:
 >>
 >>> Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so that it can see 
 >>> IGMP packets?
 >>> 
 >>> Tom
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>

 cheers

   jon



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov 30 07:56:18 2000
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From: Vinodkumar Parasmal <vinodkumar.paras@wipro.com>
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Subject: Assert messages in PIM-SM
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Hi all,
I have a doubt regarding PIM-SM Assert and DR Mechanisms in  multi-access
LANs.I could not justify why we need Assert when we have a DR Election
mechanism and a DR Elected thro' that mechanism.According to my
understanding the DR will be responsible for sending all PIM control packets
and forwarding Multicast Data .
Could somebody point out the different scenarios which explain the need for
both the mechanisms .

Thanks in Advance
Vinod






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To: Tom LODGE <T.Lodge@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
cc: idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Java and IGMP
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:20:56 -0000." <1453.975514856@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
From: Atanu Ghosh <atanu@it.uts.edu.au>
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    Tom> Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a Java socket so
    Tom> that it can see IGMP packets?

When I attempted to do this the only solution that I could come up
with was to tell the Kernel that I was an mrouted. This requires the code
to run as root and for native C code.

I can send you my test code if you like.

  Atanu.



From owner-idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk  Thu Nov 30 12:00:42 2000
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From: Billy Ng <bng@riverdelta.com>
To: "'Vinodkumar Parasmal'" <vinodkumar.paras@wipro.com>,
        IDMR <idmr@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Cc: pim@catarina.usc.edu
Subject: RE: Assert messages in PIM-SM
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:54:51 -0500
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Hi Vinodkumar,

first of all, this question belongs to the pim mailing list,
so I am forwarding to it also.

Basically your question on the role of the DR is valid if
you don't have any downstream router.  If there is a downstream
router, that router can send a join/prune toward its RPF neighbor
which could be different from that of the DR, so assert could happen
when data comes down both the RPF router and the DR router.

--Billy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vinodkumar Parasmal [mailto:vinodkumar.paras@wipro.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:33 AM
> To: IDMR
> Subject: Assert messages in PIM-SM
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> I have a doubt regarding PIM-SM Assert and DR Mechanisms in  
> multi-access
> LANs.I could not justify why we need Assert when we have a DR Election
> mechanism and a DR Elected thro' that mechanism.According to my
> understanding the DR will be responsible for sending all PIM 
> control packets
> and forwarding Multicast Data .
> Could somebody point out the different scenarios which 
> explain the need for
> both the mechanisms .
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> Vinod
> 
> 
> 
>