From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 11 07:10:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D52821F8469 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jNwGgneqU-yw for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70E821F8460 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Se5Dy-000FdL-D9 for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:04:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:10:22 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:10:31 -0000 (Co-chair hat on) Hi. One of the things we didn't get to on the Jabber chat was what to do about the mailing list draft. The current version will expire later this week. In my personal opinion, John has done a good job of creating a starting point, but, if the WG cannot or will not engage on it, I don't see how to give him the input he needs or how to move it forward. I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ interim meeting. If authors or editors think they are waiting for something, they should speak up. Questions: (1) Do we need to schedule another interim meeting to see those drafts and get discussion started on them? (2) Are we abandoning the mailing list spec by default? (3) If the answer to (2) is "no" does anyone have good ideas as to what to tell the community and the IESG. My default if no one has anything useful to suggest is to put a comment into the Shepherd's report indicating that, without deployment experience with EAI, it WG can't specify what to do about mailing lists with destination participants that might or might support EAI capabilities. Feedback (and new POP/IMAP drafts) needed asap. john From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Mon Jun 11 07:26:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A9021F85B1 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:26:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AQiC32qTP-Z8 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D9121F85AE for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 07:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E06F8D382; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:26:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339424797-16486-16485/11/2; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:26:37 +0000 Message-Id: <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:26:36 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:26:41 -0000 On 06/11/2012 04:10 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the > POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that > incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ > interim meeting. If authors or editors think they are waiting > for something, they should speak up. Uh... maybe I've forgotten something? Simpledowngrade has some minor text issues, but I had no substantive issues noted, and a quick scan of http://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/eai/2012-05-14.html doesn't show anything obvious? Arnt From jyee@afilias.info Mon Jun 11 08:03:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9292F21F8623 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TApuD3zQeS8y for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB73B21F8613 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Se69c-000458-6Y for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:03:40 +0000 Received: from mail-vc0-f178.google.com ([209.85.220.178]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Se69b-0002Vz-9F for ima@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:03:39 +0000 Received: by vcdm8 with SMTP id m8so2327118vcd.9 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=xQZGiaOqDSD6ED/WgV0ewqynLkLWZYlO5Y7JjdFJ1tI=; b=ee/avNPJ1h5h/3YzTUzHndRtFW8/u4LkQPbNFGsKvcY8Ti+IiEKWn/gk7yzLe7lYNf 2B387GJvACRPWF8rXKQCYeb/J3IMiFAANys2UAkT51umw9CVDN3lMKFMRb3hYqv6EC23 WHBDjvpFyb45FBqS93nHf1La6d3RbzuEYCTLNfMT5Z68cfeavSddpDSIwvEkUf0MNqDk h7j4onJZEqOA9VqxEbkhAJyr2+qXay0sS23Pw0K7bUDXblvO9m73oiTVO7GPX1Jcbwdp Dzi5c6xscQc5ueKnrM+SOu+v9Xbb/6uZj/gCoc0fBFC+Qo7GEj6S9TL+Fi3xqilu2rGH xjHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.240.147 with SMTP id la19mr1323713vcb.47.1339427019120; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.158.34 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:03:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:03:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: Joseph Yee To: Arnt Gulbrandsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnOLeAKbObYvDPg7JVcy/B3haTbSxJ2eHmD6+7Lw8V6ZiuJAjcPVMhGVHMNqMTca8r5rcOn Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:03:41 -0000 Personal thought on mailing list spec is mix of (1) and (3), where we should review and document the lack of deployment experience into the mailing list spec. That say, a little towards (1). Joseph On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > On 06/11/2012 04:10 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> >> I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the >> POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that >> incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ >> interim meeting. =C2=A0If authors or editors think they are waiting >> for something, they should speak up. > > > Uh... maybe I've forgotten something? Simpledowngrade has some minor text > issues, but I had no substantive issues noted, and a quick scan of > http://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/eai/2012-05-14.html doesn't show anything > obvious? > > Arnt > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From johnl@iecc.com Mon Jun 11 08:55:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC6E21F84BF for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.992 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.992 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J1aICG9sclqU for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E3821F8445 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 85094 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2012 15:55:42 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2012 15:55:42 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fd614fe.xn--btvx9d.k1206; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=9nn+bjS8/BglP073q1as1B+97FAP3f+jWKqQEjnQN+g=; b=upQ4Mk7e3tC0a3wYxddmmSWT1YrtYi9NiWCfqLUSM7kR7pDimjeMxYTc0VLe+Fnlrhiiv20tWODFBHNSZlJ1OI2z1aWBBDdwm9oz/Ey6WV2Lud5H0supeyEl8/5WW0Fpr5cEz1mMnJKlr7dqFd2LoJzffR/P+2MNSaxdqzRsNO0= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fd614fe.xn--btvx9d.k1206; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=9nn+bjS8/BglP073q1as1B+97FAP3f+jWKqQEjnQN+g=; b=AuQWdH7cmRydUM7kmEmB2rJEy0psZJzdQ8jI/kE8c/7Vx8HA0gmHhEvKoDHwZk30+XW48xERBtUdqS9tyjQMXkVgF8liaF0SgOnoqNvGsHhFkUnYq0exZH7Tkaluzc4/7uy4hVceXRT4ExisjT7/6ObZSl744AfV4H4y3pJGxKw= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 11 Jun 2012 15:55:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20120611155520.11080.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: ima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:55:44 -0000 >One of the things we didn't get to on the Jabber chat was what >to do about the mailing list draft. The current version will >expire later this week. In my personal opinion, John has done a >good job of creating a starting point, but, if the WG cannot or >will not engage on it, I don't see how to give him the input he >needs or how to move it forward. The current draft just tries to lay out the ways that mailing lists can screw up in the presence of EAI mail. It suggests some possible ways to deal with it, but carefully does not recommend anything, since we have no experience on which to base advice. Assuming that people generally agree with ths list of problems, I think it's pretty much ready to go as an Informational RFC if people want. I'm happy to keep holding the pen. R's, John From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 11 09:22:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A6021F8573 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:22:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.700, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XD0w0K+XguzL for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C053521F856D for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Se7I3-000Fob-9I; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:16:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:22:43 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: John Levine , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <7EE49C7F49B52B13F810EFE6@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <20120611155520.11080.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <20120611155520.11080.qmail@joyce.lan> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:22:49 -0000 --On Monday, June 11, 2012 15:55 +0000 John Levine wrote: >> One of the things we didn't get to on the Jabber chat was what >> to do about the mailing list draft. The current version will >> expire later this week. In my personal opinion, John has >> done a good job of creating a starting point, but, if the WG >> cannot or will not engage on it, I don't see how to give him >> the input he needs or how to move it forward. > > The current draft just tries to lay out the ways that mailing > lists can screw up in the presence of EAI mail. It suggests > some possible ways to deal with it, but carefully does not > recommend anything, since we have no experience on which to > base advice. > > Assuming that people generally agree with ths list of problems, > I think it's pretty much ready to go as an Informational RFC if > people want. I'm happy to keep holding the pen. I actually agree. But I don't, as co-chair, know how to make a determination about "what people want" --one that Joseph and I can defend to the IESG-- unless some significant number of people (more than the two of us plus Pete) have actually read the draft and are willing to comment. john From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Mon Jun 11 09:56:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B6721F8656 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:56:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PkxPmb+olx8r for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186BC21F862A for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38772F8D446; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:56:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339433772-16486-16485/10/3; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:56:12 +0000 Message-Id: <4FD62330.3050705@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:56:16 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <20120611155520.11080.qmail@joyce.lan> <7EE49C7F49B52B13F810EFE6@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <7EE49C7F49B52B13F810EFE6@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:56:14 -0000 On 06/11/2012 06:22 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > I actually agree. But I don't, as co-chair, know how to make a > determination about "what people want" --one that Joseph and I > can defend to the IESG-- unless some significant number of > people (more than the two of us plus Pete) have actually read > the draft and are willing to comment. I wrote to John privately that I, put a little more nicely, have read the draft and could not find anything to add, and could not summon the energy to look harder. Writing to John I put the emphasis more on my inability than on the fine quality of the draft. I had not seen the i-word yet then. I think the draft is a fine informational summary of all that is known about mailing lists and EAI. Arnt From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 11 10:21:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1158721F85C6 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.074 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.074 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.525, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wer5UEFs3EDC for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A2A21F85A3 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Se8CM-000Ftu-OZ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:14:38 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:20:54 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Arnt Gulbrandsen , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <24BF9C21F6D2C3908DA208B0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:21:04 -0000 --On Monday, June 11, 2012 16:26 +0200 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > On 06/11/2012 04:10 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the >> POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that >> incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ >> interim meeting. If authors or editors think they are waiting >> for something, they should speak up. > > Uh... maybe I've forgotten something? Simpledowngrade has some > minor text issues, but I had no substantive issues noted, and > a quick scan of > http://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/eai/2012-05-14.html doesn't > show anything obvious? I'd rather get a version up with those minor text issues incorporated so that we can do a final, pre-IESG, WG LC and review. But on a scale of "how much needs to be done before WG LC", simpledowngrade is certainly in the best shape of the four documents. john From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Mon Jun 11 11:09:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518D421F85CC for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vB7Fz3nouJUG for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C91A821F85AE for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1685BF8D475; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:09:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339438147-16486-16485/10/4; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:09:07 +0000 Message-Id: <4FD63448.9030402@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:09:12 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <24BF9C21F6D2C3908DA208B0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <24BF9C21F6D2C3908DA208B0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:09:09 -0000 On 06/11/2012 07:20 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > I'd rather get a version up with those minor text issues > incorporated so that we can do a final, pre-IESG, WG LC and > review. I'll try to get that done tomorrow. > But on a scale of "how much needs to be done before WG > LC", simpledowngrade is certainly in the best shape of the four > documents. An unexpected benefit of its brevity and simplicity. Arnt From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Mon Jun 11 13:11:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6BB21F856C for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QILSL7BMdw6U for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4C821F855E for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07630F8C35F; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339445472-16486-16485/10/8; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:11:12 +0000 Message-Id: <4FD650E5.5090408@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:11:17 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <24BF9C21F6D2C3908DA208B0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD63448.9030402@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <4FD63448.9030402@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:11:14 -0000 I wrote: > An unexpected benefit of its brevity and simplicity. It's best to enjoy one's luck while it lasts. I've put together the -05 draft tonight instead of tomorrow. WGLC time. Arnt From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Jun 11 13:11:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD8B11E8099; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XVHVGoLpnU+Z; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2E621F855E; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.20 Message-ID: <20120611201115.31089.60275.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:11:15 -0700 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade-05.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:11:15 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Workin= g Group of the IETF. Title : EAI: Simplified POP/IMAP downgrading Author(s) : Arnt Gulbrandsen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade-05.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2012-06-11 Abstract: This document specifies a method for IMAP and POP servers to serve internationalized messages to conventional clients. The specification is simple, easy to implement and provides only rudimentary results. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/submission.filename }}-05 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Mon Jun 11 13:59:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C9D21F8570 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5kkvrBz4FLdJ for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22D121F856D for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:59:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1339448385; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=BAq7/rxzkDxLFzlGuntVuPIMCaKwHYbBUuCW06WwZ4k=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=iM7HW6td0ttrc1QCQ3OlprCo2ph/U5WWyAiZQ0j6OfSvEdR/7hmoc4yhx9CrLGhZI9UjpA qU8EBR+H3gzDItT/exba1MsXk7mNuGK38QLhVjyS1sez1AouOkX6gxXgCStI/6Rjobqyjp k13ezUCV4kG0T/5rZ72eZMi0j8g+MLo=; Received: from [188.29.130.129] (188.29.130.129.threembb.co.uk [188.29.130.129]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:59:45 +0100 References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Alexey Melnikov Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:59:37 +0100 To: John C Klensin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:59:52 -0000 On 11 Jun 2012, at 15:10, John C Klensin wrote: > (Co-chair hat on) >=20 > Hi. Hi John, > One of the things we didn't get to on the Jabber chat was what > to do about the mailing list draft. The current version will > expire later this week. In my personal opinion, John has done a > good job of creating a starting point, but, if the WG cannot or > will not engage on it, I don't see how to give him the input he > needs or how to move it forward. It is a good document and I think it would be better to publish it. I will s= end my review in a separate email. >=20 > I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the > POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that > incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ > interim meeting. If authors or editors think they are waiting > for something, they should speak up. >=20 > Questions: >=20 > (1) Do we need to schedule another interim meeting to see those > drafts and get discussion started on them? >=20 > (2) Are we abandoning the mailing list spec by default? >=20 > (3) If the answer to (2) is "no" does anyone have good ideas as > to what to tell the community and the IESG. My default if no > one has anything useful to suggest is to put a comment into the > Shepherd's report indicating that, without deployment experience > with EAI, it WG can't specify what to do about mailing lists > with destination participants that might or might support EAI > capabilities. That would be fine, the mailing list document is already Informational. From klensin@jck.com Mon Jun 11 14:41:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743D921F8523 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:41:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.450, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g-7E80mGRgJk for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E434C21F8471 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SeCFx-000GBF-AI; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:34:37 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:40:53 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Joseph Yee , Arnt Gulbrandsen Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FD6001C.5010801@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:41:00 -0000 --On Monday, June 11, 2012 11:03 -0400 Joseph Yee wrote: > Personal thought on mailing list spec is mix of (1) and (3), > where we should review and document the lack of deployment > experience into the mailing list spec. > > That say, a little towards (1). If you (or anyone else) has specific suggestions, please send text. Warning to the WG: If we get a couple of good reviews and John respins the document if the comments necessitate that, we could start WG Last Call on mailinglist by the end of this week. That Last Call won't be for very long so, it you have any possible interest in the mailinglist document, please read it now and get any comments to the list. john From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Jun 12 00:57:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1E821F863C; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:57:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCmj8+7Jt4Xq; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE60C21F8623; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:57:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.20 Message-ID: <20120612075711.3267.53903.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:57:11 -0700 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis-05.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:57:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Workin= g Group of the IETF. Title : POP3 Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Randall Gellens Chris Newman Jiankang Yao Kazunori Fujiwara Filename : draft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis-05.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2012-06-12 Abstract: This specification extends the Post Office Protocol version 3 (POP3) to support un-encoded international characters in user names, passwords, mail addresses, message headers, and protocol-level textual strings. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/submission.filename }}-05 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-eai-rfc5721bis-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Jun 12 20:05:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58F721F865F; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:05:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KI2W7QOAzECR; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4847621F861F; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:05:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.20 Message-ID: <20120613030546.30216.65143.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:05:46 -0700 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 03:05:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Workin= g Group of the IETF. Title : IMAP Support for UTF-8 Author(s) : Pete Resnick Chris Newman Sean Shen Filename : draft-ietf-eai-5738bis-04.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2012-06-12 Abstract: This specification extends the Internet Message Access Protocol version 4rev1 (IMAP4rev1) to support UTF-8 encoded international characters in user names, mail addresses and message headers. This specification replaces RFC 5738. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-5738bis There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/submission.filename }}-04 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-eai-5738bis-04 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Sun Jun 17 14:39:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974F421F8484 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:39:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQ9vhZUzjQg9 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F49D21F8472 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA120F8EC9B; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:39:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339969148-3607-3606/11/8; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:39:08 +0000 Message-Id: <4FDE4E7B.2090100@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 23:39:07 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <4FDE49B1.4070807@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <4FDE49B1.4070807@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: [EAI] IMAP and POP drafts updated X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 21:39:16 -0000 I've read the recent POP and IMAP diffs. Good. I would wish for a quickish example near the beginning of 5738bis. IMAP is quite complex, and the draft could use an example and about two paragraphs of text showing what this extension does (ie. how simple it is). Arnt From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Tue Jun 19 00:08:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD57C21F863C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ezbfIbLu78ZQ for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C2B11E808F for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id q5J78U0d021227 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:08:30 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 3226_9ed8_93566c52_b9dd_11e1_bd3e_001d096c566a; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:08:30 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:57875) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:08:35 +0900 Message-ID: <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:08:27 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org, SM Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:08:39 -0000 Hello John, I have read the draft, after having had some problems finding it because it is expired. I suggest that it be resubmitted ASAP to make it easier to comment. The draft definitely needs some work because it refers to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-mailto-bis-10 which is now RFC 6068, in ways where that makes quite a bit of a difference. The stuff I have found, not surprisingly, is mostly in the area of URIs/IRIs/mailto:. I'm willing to help but I'm even more willing to have the authors just go ahead and try to fix things. The Introduction is long. I suggest creating some subsections, such as "Mailing Lists in General" and "Mailing Lists with Internationalized Addresses". In the following: "Of course, with mailing lists, the original sender usually does not know if the message was successfully delivered to any list members, or if it was undeliverable to some." I would find it more natural to say "if the message was successfully delivered to all list members", or if the current meaning is to be kept, to reword it as "if the message was undeliverable to some or all of the list members". In 2.1., Fully EAI lists, it says: "but there is no way to tell whether a subscriber with an ASCII address can receive EAI mail short of sending an EAI probe or confirmation message and somehow finding out whether it was delivered." This is true, but could be worded somewhat more positively. These days, the mailing lists I'm used to send subscription confirmation messages to potential subscribers to reduce subscriptions by spammers. Such messages can easily made to be EAI messages, which should solve the EAI probe problem and the spam reduction problem in one go. End of 2.2: "type of of session" -> "type of session". 2.2 in general: It occurred to be that one way of implementing this is to have two mailing list addresses, or in some way almost two mailing list, one old-style and one EAI, where submitted messages are automatically shared. Or is this a bad idea for some reason? If not, a more explicit description might help. 3.1: "The current specification for mailto does not permit unencoded UTF-8 characters": That's wrong. RFC 6068 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6068) allows 'raw' Unicode characters everywhere except the LHS of the address, and even for that part, RFC 6068 already "does the right thing", although with a "reserved" caveat. Of course, 'raw' Unicode can only be used in the IRI form, for URIs, %-encoding based on UTF-8 is needed. "although work has been proposed to extend or more likely replace mailto in order to permit this." At one point, there has indeed been quite some support for a replacement for mailto, but I don't think we should try to predict the future, so please remove "more likely". (My personal prediction would be that we will be just fine with mailto:, but that's not important here.) "Schemes that permit both URI and IRI forms should use the URI-encoded form described in [RFC3987]. Future work may extend these header fields or define replacements to directly support non-encoded UTF-8 in IRIs (for example, [I-D.duerst-mailto-bis]), but in the absence of such extension or replacement, non-ASCII characters can only appear within when encoded as ASCII." This is a bit off. Whether IRIs can be used in List header fields without transforming them to URIs first and foremost depends on the definition of these list header fields (RFC 2369, RFC 2919). Updates to these RFCs are in the works, and I have done an Apps Directorate review for one of them and pointed out that it would be a good idea to address internationalization (which would essentially amount to saying "you can use IRIs in these list headers if it's an EAI message".). I have cc'ed the current lead author of the updating documents. "The traditional encoding technique is to use a pair of hex digits preceded by a percent sign, but percent signs have been used informally in mail addresses to do source routing. Although few mail systems still permit source routing, a lot of mail software still forbids or escapes characters formerly used for source routing, which can lead to unfortunate interactions with percent-encoded URIs or any URI that includes one of those characters." I don't like the "the traditional encoding technique", because it suggests there may be a choice. There is no choice, this is clear both in RFC 3986 and 3987. Also, if correctly implemented, there is no change that '%' characters get into actual email addresses. I suggest that this text be reworded to talk mainly about the caution required by implementations. "Note that discussion on whether internationalized domain names should be percent-encoded or puny-coded, is ongoing; see [I-D.duerst-iri-bis]." This point is no longer under discussion in the IRI WG. There's no essential change from RFC 3986, where these two forms already are allowed. "Such filters and tests may not properly compare a non-ASCII value which has been encoded into ASCII." I think that nobody knows how to compare *a* value, there's always two needed for a comparison. Last line of section 3: "and losing the ability to respond to the submitter." I'd suggest to change this into "and losing the ability to respond directly to the submitter." or "and losing the ability to respond to the submitter only." or "and losing the ability to respond to the submitter if she is not subscribed to the mailing list." Regards, Martin. On 2012/06/11 23:10, John C Klensin wrote: > (Co-chair hat on) > > Hi. > > One of the things we didn't get to on the Jabber chat was what > to do about the mailing list draft. The current version will > expire later this week. In my personal opinion, John has done a > good job of creating a starting point, but, if the WG cannot or > will not engage on it, I don't see how to give him the input he > needs or how to move it forward. > > I also note that we still don't have new drafts of any of the > POP/IMAP documents (including the downgrade ones) that > incorporate the changes agreed to during the Jabber chat/ > interim meeting. If authors or editors think they are waiting > for something, they should speak up. > > Questions: > > (1) Do we need to schedule another interim meeting to see those > drafts and get discussion started on them? > > (2) Are we abandoning the mailing list spec by default? > > (3) If the answer to (2) is "no" does anyone have good ideas as > to what to tell the community and the IESG. My default if no > one has anything useful to suggest is to put a comment into the > Shepherd's report indicating that, without deployment experience > with EAI, it WG can't specify what to do about mailing lists > with destination participants that might or might support EAI > capabilities. > > Feedback (and new POP/IMAP drafts) needed asap. > > john > > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima > From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Tue Jun 19 04:15:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245B221F85E5 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ouzzp5wWvgrQ for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B6B21F85C9 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbgo11 with SMTP id go11so6159048lbb.31 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yIzH//z1EpjQXmgEP7JI2tcq9gBRWqehW4C7KVOauJQ=; b=QRQNPZYqfrrbqgiq/NgidgpKtpfeHEmtnIEQub2SnqzK4NDFU8s6M6cfgXK3SkXLpW gyZcBGqwIuAgvhN3sTYsWvAuzNQunzTimaBsRgU44khuhYZ5Z0Gqx880V3urYdaNkXZo fXjH2Wk57y0X2e9qIC92BKG2pyiMagqfxKl18mwuscrftSlL8FS6lAqDw/H04WSArJEC XZm42f5qmyss7aF2Z1cjXGxv5eLtV54FoszoTWRA3syfTntpEw3n01m8w57FHenwXOrd 2IloqjsDvE1tqrS+1Dv79oIToffytli5fwG6vlwZRN73VkpTbISSMgC7FtEOrddFoHJS z9rg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.111.200 with SMTP id ik8mr2013199lab.15.1340104541917; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.48.104 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:15:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:15:41 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _PonXG6ShJm1409885Thao8krs8 Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: ima@ietf.org, SM Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:15:44 -0000 > I have read the draft, after having had some problems finding it because it > is expired. I suggest that it be resubmitted ASAP to make it easier to > comment. I find this very puzzling to hear, nowadays... from anyone, but especially from a seasoned IETF participant. One can always get the latest version of any draft, even if it's expired, here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis One can get a specific version, by appending the version number: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01 For draft associated with working groups, one can also find this by going to the working group tools page: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/eai Expired drafts are clearly listed separately, and clicking on the version number gets you to the tool HTML page, above. It might or might not be otherwise useful to post a new version so the draft is not listed as "expired". But it is not hard to find, in any case. Barry From klensin@jck.com Tue Jun 19 07:49:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CACD21F8618 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.238 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.238 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jRBRt-MLlPAZ for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C65A21F85F7 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Sgze1-000B9e-Qt; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:43:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:49:29 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: =?UTF-8?Q?=22Martin_J=2E_D=C3=BCrst=22?= Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org, SM Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:49:41 -0000 Martin, A few comments (personal, not a co-chair except as noted). I'll let John L respond to the others and get a new draft posted when he is ready. =20 WG members: some of this is controversial. If you have comments, make them. WG LC on this document will start as soon as John gets a new version posted (even if only to avoid WG LC on an expired draft). --On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 16:08 +0900 "\"Martin J. = D=C3=BCrst\"" wrote: > 2.2 in general: It occurred to be that one way of implementing > this is to have two mailing list addresses, or in some way > almost two mailing list, one old-style and one EAI, where > submitted messages are automatically shared. Or is this a bad > idea for some reason? If not, a more explicit description > might help. I'm not certain I understand this. If I do, it is either equivalent to advise to simply not permit UTF-8 addresses in mailing lists or any EAI-requiring messages to be posted to them) or having the expectation of having lots of messages delivered twice. Another reading would take us back to requiring that every UTF-8 address be accompanied by an alternative, 5821-conforming, address, which takes us right back to all of the issues associated with dual addresses and in-transit downgrading, including the security-threat issues, that we agreed to drop. Or am I misunderstanding the = suggestion? > 3.1: > "The current specification for > mailto does not permit unencoded UTF-8 characters": > That's wrong. RFC 6068 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6068) > allows 'raw' Unicode characters everywhere except the LHS of > the address, > and even for that part, RFC 6068 already "does the right > thing", > although with a "reserved" caveat. Of course, 'raw' Unicode > can only > be used in the IRI form, for URIs, %-encoding based on UTF-8 > is needed. Sadly, "%" has a different historical interpretation for email local-parts than it does in URUs. That isn't a problem as long as all of the decoding and encoding rules are followed carefully. But, having just had another bad experience that appears to be due to moving from email address to MAILTO URI to email address fouling up "+" in a local part, I have no confidence at all about proper handling of "%". You and John note another aspect of this issue in the text and elsewhere in your message. >... > "Note that discussion on > whether internationalized domain names should be > percent-encoded or > puny-coded, is ongoing; see [I-D.duerst-iri-bis]." > This point is no longer under discussion in the IRI WG. > There's no essential change from RFC 3986, where these two > forms already are allowed. I strongly prefer that we not drag the IRI debate into this WG. "No longer under discussion in the WG" is different from "approved in the IETF. If we do have to make an IRI discussion, or anything that is contingent on what that WG is doing, prerequisite to making progress on the EAI mailinglist document, I will propose to abandon that document until and unless the IRI work produces IETF consensus Standards Track documents. >... Thanks for the careful reading. best, john From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jun 19 13:09:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D9A11E814C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:09:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.402, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDwUwFOMlG6T for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9A911E8148 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31310 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2012 20:09:12 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 19 Jun 2012 20:09:12 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe0dc68.xn--i8sz2z.k1206; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=EXl3sy3aMUQ7qk9l1YqSAlG+Yms6jYWlCOYyHp0IvG4=; b=ZelsmxsaWXIRtzoa25JVM5GGFsv9aQFQOtcse7OvqYqzhNsuaqVOxO+jcexs6Vatr/tGzMKYYkH+dScsRNt8mtrrbCAGYXhJfGpSvO7ZD3KNBK1bHaKI60rRGC4NeX1FEcRS/TGmKWq9ciQDxG/XBW1pwY/j2jJFcVXfukhiZuU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe0dc68.xn--i8sz2z.k1206; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=EXl3sy3aMUQ7qk9l1YqSAlG+Yms6jYWlCOYyHp0IvG4=; b=ZoyZpOUhCf1boQR8QC9/usGH1hH+OiRyR00gFuTgFbz+4TAWRWiDoNy1UAPlaHPMBNxoGZBeZeG4N3GeVAIhsoII7dXpo7XrH4i+ecoTB9T0FaQn9poG/rPlKA4vZ1oAWsXGl2+UOoFz1C+LqdDtZxSJ2tXe+fBuegAFHH9Dsok= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 19 Jun 2012 20:08:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20120619200850.43496.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: ima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:09:16 -0000 Thanks for your note. I'll recycle the draft shortly. >2.2 in general: It occurred to be that one way of implementing this is >to have two mailing list addresses, or in some way almost two mailing >list, one old-style and one EAI, where submitted messages are >automatically shared. Or is this a bad idea for some reason? If not, a >more explicit description might help. I don't see what problem that would solve. It's easy enough when a message arrives to look at it and see whether it's an EAI message or not. The hard parts are knowing which subscribers accept EAI and which don't, and for EAI messages to be sent to non-EAI subscribers, how to downgrade them. I suppose you could have two subscription addresses, one for EAI and one for non-EAI, but even a weenie like me knows that's a dreadful user interface that people will get wrong all the time. R's, John From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Tue Jun 19 17:15:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2185F11E80FD for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.199, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6qGVtWQbrs6r for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BE311E80EB for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id q5K0EtNj016941 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:14:55 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 60fb_51bd_f69657e8_ba6c_11e1_8848_001d096c5782; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:14:54 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:54668) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:14:59 +0900 Message-ID: <4FE115FB.4080603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:14:51 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Levine References: <20120619200850.43496.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120619200850.43496.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:15:09 -0000 On 2012/06/20 5:08, John Levine wrote: > Thanks for your note. I'll recycle the draft shortly. > >> 2.2 in general: It occurred to be that one way of implementing this is >> to have two mailing list addresses, or in some way almost two mailing >> list, one old-style and one EAI, where submitted messages are >> automatically shared. Or is this a bad idea for some reason? If not, a >> more explicit description might help. > > I don't see what problem that would solve. It's easy enough when a > message arrives to look at it and see whether it's an EAI message or > not. > > The hard parts are knowing which subscribers accept EAI and which > don't, and for EAI messages to be sent to non-EAI subscribers, how to > downgrade them. I suppose you could have two subscription addresses, one > for EAI and one for non-EAI, but even a weenie like me knows that's a > dreadful user interface that people will get wrong all the time. I guess that addresses the "is this a bad idea for some reason?". Regards, Martin. From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Tue Jun 19 17:43:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354B411E80FB for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.605 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.605 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5-fPGGgd2Rr for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534F911E80D5 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id q5K0hUfN030362 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:30 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 60fb_5927_f4f811d4_ba70_11e1_8848_001d096c5782; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:29 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:36809) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:34 +0900 Message-ID: <4FE11CAE.2020605@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:26 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barry Leiba References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org, SM Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:43:33 -0000 On 2012/06/19 20:15, Barry Leiba wrote: >> I have read the draft, after having had some problems finding it because it >> is expired. I suggest that it be resubmitted ASAP to make it easier to >> comment. > > I find this very puzzling to hear, nowadays... from anyone, but > especially from a seasoned IETF participant. Hello Barry, Thanks for the "seasoned IETF participant"! Of course I knew how to find the expired draft. Otherwise, I wouldn't have commented :-). > One can always get the latest version of any draft, even if it's expired, here: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis > > One can get a specific version, by appending the version number: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-01 > > For draft associated with working groups, one can also find this by > going to the working group tools page: > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/eai > > Expired drafts are clearly listed separately, and clicking on the > version number gets you to the tool HTML page, above. I looked at http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/eai/, where the expired drafts are not listed. I found the draft by checking for drafts with "eai" in them directly from http://tools.ietf.org. I'll try to use tools even more, in particular the WG overview page. Thanks for the tip. > It might or might not be otherwise useful to post a new version so the > draft is not listed as "expired". But it is not hard to find, in any > case. It's relieving to hear something close to "don't bother to resubmit a draft just because it has expired recently" from an AD. Regards, Martin. From barryleiba@gmail.com Tue Jun 19 18:06:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1F011E8121 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OWlZKvEPOn-8 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13E811E8117 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so5770133ghb.31 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bL/mYAb9JiqXvU9dNod7OLMEnt4Oz3DmCT7avocGUs0=; b=HP6ut/JnTMFybW4ZMQxjWT9Prj2O8yJUwXFqpQjlCwZ+7Qo1QlouIlSi+HTIJMUWJl Fp2Mj2wXNQWDi7c3vCp1ae9hdqtjWA07jITtDFaPI7c3Wjm4siZLVuBgvp1hAJS23vf6 Mnk7xluLLyHGBdDcMN1QOrqtxQ4LdrscV8yxHwaI7Z7Q1OZX7EdEWCXTBi4iiu0ROEP/ 731cBvqBk2z6XlUBaFrk8UMETTvKRgyxEFgW+5H9oXoShoti45QM/AB0dw9kSSSeVOcy h3o+h/q7+fojQaJPmyVVaBSvc5YC398UFF3twWvaBMQz16Qz1HaoVfNnkgHntfXCZmMZ 1Wvg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.189.73 with SMTP id dd9mr9349653icb.49.1340154371331; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.7.17 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FE11CAE.2020605@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4FE11CAE.2020605@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:06:11 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8bR0dunLAKXMZ7jgE-kkE4UGlK8 Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=FCrst?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303ea6223f55c004c2dd01f3 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:06:12 -0000 --20cf303ea6223f55c004c2dd01f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > It's relieving to hear something close to "don't bother to resubmit a > draft just because it has expired recently" from an AD. :-) Well, you'll also frequently hear (or see) me say, "Versions are cheap." I generally would rather see another version. But I'd like to see a version that has substantive changes -- and I suspect this doc will, soon enough -- and not see an update pushed out *just* to refresh the expriation. b --20cf303ea6223f55c004c2dd01f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > It's= relieving to hear something close to "don't bother to resubmit a<= /span>
&g= t; draft just because it has expired recently" from an AD.

:-)
Well, you'll also frequently hear (or see) me say, "Versi= ons are cheap." =A0I generally would rather see another version. =A0Bu= t I'd like to see a version that has substantive changes -- and I suspe= ct this doc will, soon enough -- and not see an update pushed out *just* to= refresh the expriation.

b
--20cf303ea6223f55c004c2dd01f3-- From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Tue Jun 19 23:54:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD1021F8709 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:54:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K6kLoy0b5Mqw for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5278021F8707 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B70F8C114; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340175294-6884-6883/10/4; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:54 +0000 Message-Id: <4FE173CB.30408@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:55:07 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <20120619200850.43496.qmail@joyce.lan> <4FE115FB.4080603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <4FE115FB.4080603@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:54:57 -0000 On 06/20/2012 02:14 AM, Martin J. D=FCrst wrote: >> I suppose you could have two subscription addresses, one >> for EAI and one for non-EAI, but even a weenie like me knows that's a >> dreadful user interface that people will get wrong all the time. > > I guess that addresses the "is this a bad idea for some reason?". I quite agree. Also, I think that odd characters aren't worth time and attention,=20 because they don't work reliably in general email addresses. Why bother=20 writing about what won't work anyway? (Anecdote alert: I personally have even given up on + since so many web=20 forms tell me that arnt+thatvendor@gulbrandsen.priv.no is syntactically=20 invalid. + isn't very odd as characters go.) Arnt From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Wed Jun 20 04:55:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3450521F86E0 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:55:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.083 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.083 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.362, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w0X4ha7ELpmE for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D007E21F85DD for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id q5KBsrVr015765 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:53 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 6e84_ddfb_bf8b2596_bace_11e1_8b21_001d096c566a; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:53 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:38567) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:54:57 +0900 Message-ID: <4FE13096.8010008@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:08:22 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John C Klensin References: <93883C5B7775FC79AF3C6FB3@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FE0256B.3010501@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: ima@ietf.org, SM Subject: Re: [EAI] The mailing list draft X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:55:06 -0000 Hello John, Many thanks for your comments. On 2012/06/19 23:49, John C Klensin wrote: > Martin, > > A few comments (personal, not a co-chair except as noted). I'll > let John L respond to the others and get a new draft posted when > he is ready. > > > WG members: some of this is controversial. If you have > comments, make them. WG LC on this document will start as soon > as John gets a new version posted (even if only to avoid WG LC > on an expired draft). > (Given this warning, I was rather afraid there would be a long list of thorny issues, but they all seem rather easy.) > --On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 16:08 +0900 "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" > wrote: > > >> 2.2 in general: It occurred to be that one way of implementing >> this is to have two mailing list addresses, or in some way >> almost two mailing list, one old-style and one EAI, where >> submitted messages are automatically shared. Or is this a bad >> idea for some reason? If not, a more explicit description >> might help. > > I'm not certain I understand this. If I do, it is either > equivalent to advise to simply not permit UTF-8 addresses in > mailing lists or any EAI-requiring messages to be posted to > them) or having the expectation of having lots of messages > delivered twice. Another reading would take us back to > requiring that every UTF-8 address be accompanied by an > alternative, 5821-conforming, address, which takes us right back > to all of the issues associated with dual addresses and > in-transit downgrading, including the security-threat issues, > that we agreed to drop. Or am I misunderstanding the suggestion? John Levine got it right, and showed that it wasn't really such a good idea. >> 3.1: >> "The current specification for >> mailto does not permit unencoded UTF-8 characters": >> That's wrong. RFC 6068 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6068) >> allows 'raw' Unicode characters everywhere except the LHS of >> the address, >> and even for that part, RFC 6068 already "does the right >> thing", >> although with a "reserved" caveat. Of course, 'raw' Unicode >> can only >> be used in the IRI form, for URIs, %-encoding based on UTF-8 >> is needed. > > Sadly, "%" has a different historical interpretation for email > local-parts than it does in URUs. That isn't a problem as long > as all of the decoding and encoding rules are followed > carefully. But, having just had another bad experience that > appears to be due to moving from email address to MAILTO URI to > email address fouling up "+" in a local part, I have no > confidence at all about proper handling of "%". I have absolutely nothing against a very strong warning on this issue, because I agree that it is indeed a problem. > You and John note another aspect of this issue in the text and > elsewhere in your message. > >> ... >> "Note that discussion on >> whether internationalized domain names should be >> percent-encoded or >> puny-coded, is ongoing; see [I-D.duerst-iri-bis]." >> This point is no longer under discussion in the IRI WG. >> There's no essential change from RFC 3986, where these two >> forms already are allowed. > > > I strongly prefer that we not drag the IRI debate into this WG. I very much agree. That's why I don't think any comments about progress (or non-progress) in other WGs should be in our drafts. > "No longer under discussion in the WG" is different from > "approved in the IETF. Of course. I may not have been clear enough, but I didn't want to propose to replace "discussion is ongoing" with "no longer under discussion". None of this should be in the document. > If we do have to make an IRI discussion, > or anything that is contingent on what that WG is doing, > prerequisite to making progress on the EAI mailinglist document, > I will propose to abandon that document until and unless the IRI > work produces IETF consensus Standards Track documents. > I think there is no need to have an "IRI discussion". There is RFC 3987, which is Standards Track. >> ... > > Thanks for the careful reading. > > best, > john Regards, Martin. From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Thu Jun 21 03:44:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C0C21F854A for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:44:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.389, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NpUaJwxMl5D2 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from statler.isode.com (statler.isode.com [62.3.217.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A139621F8528 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:44:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1340275480; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=2XO0QDj9yNJYK4Yfv/WKpfppFVtV677ObOUKdwk0jZY=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=GLcWAJJOoWmWwl+tP3NhFnIh50WcmiJoYVST3mgJDB2nNcnhWoDdxf5E0xrbVqhhDTArO0 zIgNMx8nxclIacFHtGLH33Ota0UmgnsBqG4fHec9NfXRbv8373kiSyim86oOUtuxhMOcQP zirAmcg1rZm3QQf2ynuJsIMaVffmrGU=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:44:40 +0100 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: PIPELINING Message-ID: <4FE2FB1D.3060201@isode.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:44:45 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 To: Arnt Gulbrandsen References: <4FDE49B1.4070807@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <4FDE4E7B.2090100@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <4FDE4E7B.2090100@gulbrandsen.priv.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] IMAP and POP drafts updated X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:44:42 -0000 On 17/06/2012 22:39, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > I've read the recent POP and IMAP diffs. Good. > > I would wish for a quickish example near the beginning of 5738bis. > IMAP is quite complex, and the draft could use an example and about > two paragraphs of text showing what this extension does (ie. how > simple it is). This looks like a good idea. From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sat Jun 23 21:33:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FB621F86DB; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gop3As3784gx; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ABF521F86D9; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:33:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.21 Message-ID: <20120624043323.23441.76216.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:33:23 -0700 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:33:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Workin= g Group of the IETF. Title : Mailing Lists and UTF-8 Addresses Author(s) : John Levine Randall Gellens Filename : draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2012-06-23 Abstract: This document describes considerations for mailing lists with the introduction of internationalized email addresses. It outlines some possible scenarios for handling lists with mixtures of internationalized and traditional addresses, but does not offer implementation or deployment advice. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From johnl@iecc.com Sat Jun 23 21:46:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369B921F8523 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.302, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-H0bTvAU+Zt for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3F821F847E for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 46732 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2012 04:46:39 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 24 Jun 2012 04:46:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe69bae.xn--9vv.k1206; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=77XntrIAsiKVGChC6FJNW2P3ijhFxmvgcDQpsEHmxaU=; b=jrFuqpWMrbrv8hMcq4MOC7ElkquWlK2gytpu3MR25Fmp//RFYdCT5sMbH37I9OBRokEFFeGRRdNjH472kSlEEGIxheUTouUoyE0HoSHdw10TdHSfB5lYmtEP2yV3LMDzylL3xHrd0baJBGE+bcD/NgJrb36JQlOkz7ACRnJM81M= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4fe69bae.xn--9vv.k1206; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=77XntrIAsiKVGChC6FJNW2P3ijhFxmvgcDQpsEHmxaU=; b=a7KPjWkPRCDXLazVielsWZSMo/7tfVskdEA8QgfuxqMlcHqxR6/52fdKNBvFh0Vy5z3d3ped7VyWQrLNVMW6B4PYhgWl//eKspVS0Vv5zKuA1GR380ehFtSiTZqKDJdTnGFee/67S0cZX4MpGCw8Q5g98B/kM07oHkbz+vei0Lg= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 24 Jun 2012 04:46:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20120624044616.83062.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: ima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20120624043323.23441.76216.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: internet-drafts@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:46:41 -0000 You can see a diff from -01 here: http://www.taugh.com/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02-from-1.diff.html I went through all the comments and think I addressed them all (which is not the same as accepting all the suggestions.) Tell me what you hate, preferably with text. R's, John In article <20120624043323.23441.76216.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> you write: > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Mailing Lists and UTF-8 Addresses > Author(s) : John Levine > Randall Gellens > Filename : draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2012-06-23 From klensin@jck.com Sun Jun 24 10:11:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDF221F8595 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:11:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.13 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.13 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.870, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o1HXX0loFiN9 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8E621F8596 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SiqEZ-000MxE-E9 for ima@ietf.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:04:23 -0400 X-Vipre-Scanned: 048D6D3E002C31048D6E8B-TDI Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:11:05 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: ima@ietf.org Message-ID: <004C51C6041A55070F39D80E@[192.168.1.128]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [EAI] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:11:08 -0000 Hi As promised/threatened, this note initiates a one-week WG Last Call on draft-ietf-eai-mailinglistbis-02.txt. Unless substantive comments that cannot be resolved quickly are received by 0000 UT on July 2nd (i.e., the end of Sunday evening UT), we will start the process of handing it off to the IESG for IETF Last Call. john From fujiwara@jprs.co.jp Fri Jun 29 03:46:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1D121F86B9 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:46:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b69GgbuppAUV for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:8:17::10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB22521F86A7 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.8.32]) by off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q5TAk0Bd012685 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:46:00 +0900 X-AuditID: ac120820-b7f426d000006586-59-4fed876869dd Received: from localhost (off-cpu04.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.4.14]) by off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 77.81.25990.8678DEF4; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:46:00 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:46:00 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ima@ietf.org From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3.50 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrIIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWyRoiFTzej/a2/wb0rChbXl65jd2D0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxvT3P5kK7rBU3D73iqWB8QVzFyMnh4SAicS3S0+ZIGwxiQv3 1rN1MXJxCAmcZJRYNHc3C0iCRUBbomHbLiCbg4NXwFpi13IXkLCIgIDEsrcLGEFsYaDw5Qfb wMrZBCQlNn9uhZpvJ3Hi+QpWiFZBib87hEHCzAJaEj0zHrND2PIS29/OYZ7AyDMLoWoWkqpZ SKoWMDKvYpTJT0vTLU7NSynOTTcw1CupzNfLKigq1ksG0ZsYwaHCobCDccYpg0OMAhyMSjy8 i6e88RdiTSwrrsw9xCjJwaQkylvZ9tZfiC8pP6UyI7E4I76oNCe1+BCjBAezkgjvihagHG9K YmVValE+TEqag0VJnPf42R1+QgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkZDg4lCV5vkKGCRanpqRVpmTklCGkm Dk6Q4TxAw4NAaniLCxJzizPTIfKnGFU51r05coNRiCUvPy9VSpw3D6RIAKQoozQPbs4rRnGg d4R500CyPMB0ADfhFdBwJqDhTgGvQYaXJCKkpBoY15kzpJiEvMhvmlA6R1fTc/pTW2WTzTqL 7k07eMTkYri6/2JZYeZTia/NFTN2G62887bFskMzv2aW97vYdbN31BoleM1z7+sI/OVny7ah Xv7D/2uh4ZkeAeLpi+zvvsjmf7/j5l9FZe2/+dvD9Q5dyFh1QpL5gPysPX9V186UX5T6mX3b /ueiSizFGYmGWsxFxYkAVrXXWsQCAAA= Subject: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:46:03 -0000 I'm updating draft-ietf-popimap-downgrade-05. I reflected comments from AppsDir review. >From Preliminary High-level summary of EAI Meeting at May 14, | - If a document is needed to "update" RFC5322 to explicitly allow | empty group syntax in "From:", Barry Leiba will do a first draft of a | "mini-doc" to that effect (rather than trying to do it in one of the | downgrading specs). I want to refer the document. Recent version of popimap-downgrade (06pre) is on my page. http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/diff.html Regards, -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS From fujiwara@jprs.co.jp Fri Jun 29 04:05:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED95E21F86F5 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:05:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1s9wZIdtr4t for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:8:17::10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3762521F865D for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.8.32]) by off-send01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q5TB5fqx013674 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:05:41 +0900 X-AuditID: ac120820-b7f426d000006586-cc-4fed8c05df10 Received: from localhost (off-cpu04.tyo.jprs.co.jp [172.18.4.14]) by off-sendsmg01.tyo.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id C6.91.25990.50C8DEF4; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:05:41 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:05:41 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20120629.200541.22052742.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ima@ietf.org From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3.50 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWyRoiFT5e1562/QeNMFYvrS9exOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr49ptu4IepoonK48yNzA+Z+xi5OSQEDCR2LV3HzuELSZx4d56 ti5GLg4hgZOMEp1XWphBEiwC2hIfZs9iA7F5Bawk/h07CNYsIiAgseztAjBbWEBEon/FIyYQ m01AUmLz51ZmiKF2Eieer2DtYuQA6hWU+LtDGCTMLKAl0TPjMTuELS+x/e0c5gmMPLMQqmYh qZqFpGoBI/MqRpn8tDTd4tS8lOLcdANDvZLKfL2sgqJivWQQvYkRHCocCjsYZ5wyOMQowMGo xMO7eMobfyHWxLLiytxDjJIcTEqivJVtb/2F+JLyUyozEosz4otKc1KLDzFKcDArifCuaAHK 8aYkVlalFuXDpKQ5WJTEeY+f3eEnJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk5Xh4FCS4P3XBdQoWJSanlqRlplT gpBm4uAEGc4DNJypG2R4cUFibnFmOkT+FKOklDjvVpBmAZBERmkeXO8rRnGgF4R5BUDaeIBx D9f1CmggE9BAp4DXIANLEhFSUg2MYsr/kx9uZJe9KbHh8A5FkZst7bJBr0sidd9IFizr0nTs NFtQ/Z95XyL3rx3vFJ+cff2IzVlLarGKoEPUk4c+hXF6PMbz/dmfaIcZce6xEXi/d53Bwiam Z9O/PHJfZHjeq0RBRH3W8ROzPq64XHzcI8r9wm/dq7ZCu4R4JiYU3bmU+CVk6UdOJZbijERD Leai4kQAdg1VSbgCAAA= Subject: [EAI] Test event? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:05:43 -0000 I heard that test event "Global Test of Multilingual IDN Email" was hold last week. http://www.afilias.info/blogs/vhedderel/afilias-participates-global-test-multilingual-idn-email Does someone know details? -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 29 04:28:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C7021F8674 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ykr1wEEqSHfx for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001DC21F86C3 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SkZGo-0008iJ-LN; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:21:50 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:28:37 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, Barry Leiba Message-ID: <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> References: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:28:48 -0000 Barry, Can we at least get a title and proposed name that can be included in a forward-pointing informative reference? Even if the document is delayed, I'd prefer to see a posted version of the popimap-downgrade draft (so we can start WG LC) RSN. thanks john --On Friday, June 29, 2012 19:46 +0900 fujiwara@jprs.co.jp wrote: > I'm updating draft-ietf-popimap-downgrade-05. > > I reflected comments from AppsDir review. > > From Preliminary High-level summary of EAI Meeting at May 14, > > | - If a document is needed to "update" RFC5322 to explicitly > allow | empty group syntax in "From:", Barry Leiba will do a > first draft of a | "mini-doc" to that effect (rather than > trying to do it in one of the | downgrading specs). > > I want to refer the document. > > Recent version of popimap-downgrade (06pre) is on my page. > http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/diff.html > > Regards, > > -- > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Fri Jun 29 04:35:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B48821F86EE for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:35:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e6q2bKv6pVHz for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429CA21F8636 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E04F8DD40; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:35:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340969743-3762-3762/11/12; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:35:43 +0000 Message-Id: <4FED9313.8090803@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:35:47 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ima@ietf.org References: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:35:47 -0000 On 06/29/2012 01:28 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > Even if > the document is delayed, I'd prefer to see a posted version of > the popimap-downgrade draft (so we can start WG LC) RSN. +1. And WGLC simpledowngrade too at the same time. It's so nice to finish things off. Arnt From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 29 04:42:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6E521F8675 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.409 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.409 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.190, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZyI+HO62CFax for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D18121F8674 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 04:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SkZUX-0008ke-R7; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:36:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:42:48 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Arnt Gulbrandsen , ima@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FED9313.8090803@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FED9313.8090803@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:42:56 -0000 --On Friday, June 29, 2012 13:35 +0200 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > On 06/29/2012 01:28 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >> Even if >> the document is delayed, I'd prefer to see a posted version of >> the popimap-downgrade draft (so we can start WG LC) RSN. > > +1. And WGLC simpledowngrade too at the same time. It's so > nice to finish things off. Arnt (and others), My/our plan is to do one WG LC on all four documents. Assuming that works out, I'm going to ask Pete to issue a single IETF LC on the four documents. That may or may not be possible given existing tools (Pete is checking), but it is something that the IESG used to do quite often. Its advantage in this case is that it would save us a lot of reviews that complain about the absence in one document that appears instead in one or more of the others because the reviewers focused only on a single document. That, in turn, saves both the WG and the IESG time so should be a net win. best, john From barryleiba@gmail.com Fri Jun 29 06:41:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1FC21F86EE for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1vv0glqFZZyf for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4770621F86B1 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcac10 with SMTP id c10so791742qca.31 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=QtsLiEJrEZ2lD1AiblNnSWEu3ZWC5WMVM5KnrUAmdnM=; b=gvaGTISByVtQnbwjZ4LXDXZRpyNEQTpWnokGOVuu6ixmJynN9SRgEiShNbi1mygJpF 7o59328hYFq6ok4DlcixYusee83bQFhDFIv2O1NXlbOqDXb/NJ5ISc71O9OWIOAhEON5 PWdud6vIN1vnSMuwRVQ+X9IBsv9zVxN3Wfje4r/mtR7xYBWOxGydzV/hDOGd3YsPIN6C Gai9ne0b5l2gL2Kedh9oVg1qHZZXusUfo+vwdth/+MpWdiFkMbeIHKl+2SwP75yJHP+L tC2B0FISYvi1qrQxNzwSMh6Vane9/gYVYLJ+TDPHnz6HH3xz0gg39FDKu1rM14xMWfa/ upeg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.73.3 with SMTP id o3mr3916067qaj.58.1340977266590; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.245.85 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:41:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> References: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:41:06 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YToxPJvEZALRz-JGgAk93RDZzwc Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: John C Klensin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:41:08 -0000 > Can we at least get a title and proposed name that can be > included in a forward-pointing informative reference? Even if > the document is delayed, I'd prefer to see a posted version of > the popimap-downgrade draft (so we can start WG LC) RSN. Sorry: I forgot I had this action item. I'll put a first draft out ASAP. I presume it will go as AD sponsored, not as a WG item, right? Barry > --On Friday, June 29, 2012 19:46 +0900 fujiwara@jprs.co.jp wrote: > >> I'm updating draft-ietf-popimap-downgrade-05. >> >> I reflected comments from AppsDir review. >> >> From Preliminary High-level summary of EAI Meeting at May 14, >> >> | - If a document is needed to "update" RFC5322 to explicitly >> allow | empty group syntax in "From:", Barry Leiba will do a >> first draft of a | "mini-doc" to that effect (rather than >> trying to do it in one of the | downgrading specs). >> >> I want to refer the document. >> >> Recent version of popimap-downgrade (06pre) is on my page. >> http://member.wide.ad.jp/~fujiwara/diff.html >> >> Regards, >> >> -- >> Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 29 06:53:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9F321F8724 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:53:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.910, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRQEA7w-UV4T for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0D721F8722 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([::1]) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SkbWZ-00095J-LH; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:46:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:53:07 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20120629.194600.267954516.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <47E23F82DAC4C3759799FC7D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] popimap-downgrade: How to refer Barry's mini doc ? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:53:11 -0000 --On Friday, 29 June, 2012 09:41 -0400 Barry Leiba wrote: >> Can we at least get a title and proposed name that can be >> included in a forward-pointing informative reference? Even if >> the document is delayed, I'd prefer to see a posted version of >> the popimap-downgrade draft (so we can start WG LC) RSN. > > Sorry: I forgot I had this action item. I'll put a first > draft out ASAP. I presume it will go as AD sponsored, not as > a WG item, right? Assuming you can find an AD to sponsor it, yes, please. :-) john From Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com Fri Jun 29 12:33:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6217221F8851 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0owhDLKH6p7J for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe001.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5883E21F8849 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail15-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.250) by CH1EHSOBE002.bigfish.com (10.43.70.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:39 +0000 Received: from mail15-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail15-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8CB260101 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:131.107.125.8; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 1 X-BigFish: VS1(zzzz1202hzz8275eha1495iz2fh2a8h683h839h944hd25hf0ah) Received-SPF: pass (mail15-ch1: domain of microsoft.com designates 131.107.125.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=131.107.125.8; envelope-from=Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com; helo=TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ; icrosoft.com ; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:157.56.236.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:BY2PRD0310HT004.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT Received: from mail15-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail15-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1340998297928742_26889; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS019.bigfish.com (snatpool3.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.227]) by mail15-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA513E0049 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (131.107.125.8) by CH1EHSMHS019.bigfish.com (10.43.70.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:37 +0000 Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (157.54.51.112) by mail.microsoft.com (157.54.79.178) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.298.5; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:33:26 +0000 Received: from mail247-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.236) by TX2EHSOBE006.bigfish.com (10.9.40.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:20 +0000 Received: from mail247-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail247-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E95C10401C3 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail247-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail247-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1340998279193652_21401; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS035.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.245]) by mail247-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CCEA1640045 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:31:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0310HT004.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (157.56.236.5) by TX2EHSMHS035.bigfish.com (10.9.99.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:33:59 +0000 Received: from BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.7.163]) by BY2PRD0310HT004.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.80.39]) with mapi id 14.16.0152.000; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:33:06 +0000 From: Shawn Steele To: "ima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Test event? Thread-Index: Ac1WLeWhLRt0opDVRAq3WPpDYzeq3Q== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: <352CBC94712DF44392EE468860B35D300E794EE1@BY2PRD0310MB388.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [131.107.174.25] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: BY2PRD0310HT004.namprd03.prod.outlook.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%59$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%6$FQDN%131.107.125.5$TlsDn% X-CrossPremisesHeadersPromoted: TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com X-CrossPremisesHeadersFiltered: TK5EX14MLTC101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com Subject: Re: [EAI] Test event? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:33:31 -0000 > I heard that test event "Global Test of Multilingual IDN Email" was hold = last week. > http://www.afilias.info/blogs/vhedderel/afilias-participates-global-test-= multilingual-idn-email > Does someone know details? The link doesn't even mention EAI :( -Shawn From jyee@afilias.info Fri Jun 29 12:52:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B3221F88AE for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wStBGTyJ6kSo for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B2C21F88BA for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.111] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SkhEk-0002TY-4H for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:52:14 +0000 Received: from mail-vb0-f50.google.com ([209.85.212.50]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SkhEk-0001PN-3X for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:52:14 +0000 Received: by vbal1 with SMTP id l1so2744466vba.9 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=bMsFndIkzhUz3C0WNQSsoN985R1lWUXu8/8J92/Oz9I=; b=fgZOdHtc3JASlNPaUbGFDvsv/XaF6BhMm9nvT67TH7La7kLuXCVo8JHZUsZo6z0Qja ej6sPYeAT/+OhWOlAEygYKFpstKVVbzGuEHkdLOYee8YsclyzvkDvzR2zzEBmbnItXJl hGxzo7JToTOLT/nTTF0aupMICqe4ibCbusva/lcl78/X93t6VznkcD3Ed6abhK/sLmsb FwQ4YEsEcWW4r7IIfH8kfhEz5vlh+6W9ggeSyJp4cO2Ir1542Xh31bk6Cyb81LCmoF0k Y/8rP+nzeq9dIDuvZxG0ugM7TKS2jKsKwJ89nP1H8QnfAyCL1U8Yq5XWer1GjY2uwlx2 4urA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.173.39 with SMTP id bh7mr1388791vdc.101.1340999533533; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.158.34 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:52:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120629.200541.22052742.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> References: <20120629.200541.22052742.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Joseph Yee To: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkJFaE1WthmiD8aJxPwvODCz3grKkp/uXDjFq1MAriVZQvIU72bxmNtR0dJI0XLLUbdRn4Y Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] Test event? X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:52:18 -0000 http://cnnic.cn/dtygg/dtgg/201206/t20120619_29969.html I hope Google Translate helps. As for Afilias' blog, I apologize that the word 'Test' is poor translation from us. Joseph On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 7:05 AM, wrote: > I heard that test event "Global Test of Multilingual IDN Email" was > hold last week. > > http://www.afilias.info/blogs/vhedderel/afilias-participates-global-test-multilingual-idn-email > > Does someone know details? > > -- > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS > _______________________________________________ > IMA mailing list > IMA@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima From jyee@afilias.info Fri Jun 29 13:10:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A393221F85A4 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.343 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.343 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n3heALyjvYqR for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [69.46.124.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0758121F859E for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms6.yyz2.afilias-ops.info ([10.50.129.112] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SkhWh-0005TZ-89 for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:10:47 +0000 Received: from mail-vb0-f50.google.com ([209.85.212.50]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SkhWh-0003SC-7d for ima@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:10:47 +0000 Received: by vbal1 with SMTP id l1so2757313vba.9 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=htfG/p7ql8/nrzzHu6KHs7SDMSD3Rjm9rDqj3IOwFPQ=; b=Xv/l6NpEu5RnRCdEMzNA3kqh21uV5DgsfWj1DX/L+23X277T8e50T7nfsROb1jLqpp IQc/KGEfSiVKrm9kW6m8j/KGKtHEI1NWbTy8fnuZVIOTr6DdenxdRFR7Tad2X069N4Ie gpKn1xDXTb2OxD6plgMcPn8WlQ+LuhWEyIoIxQ+V99HTIrrIgzdj2ecXmxmKZlG5+Hbr fSAXz3s8XoK/Ewkk9XChHZfIU72yeJuRn1SiwEPimOWAS4tYQ2ifCvWNhsaPFTB43VZf G3yiazrkA9z0Xup+e1SACbJrWvUdflNbvlq+8MMFK56RQkWC9YU3Nw8ThNsiAtTB6HvV YQag== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.221.7 with SMTP id ia7mr1753987vcb.31.1341000646794; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.158.34 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:10:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120628201840.5095.29799.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120628201840.5095.29799.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:10:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: Joseph Yee To: "ima@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkjYyA33RbY/QCMTXbx15zBiS7WK9QNnF8nFc7X7Ul/HMKLDJWLa5kIG/ldwuwI660Q9NXq Subject: [EAI] Fwd: eai - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 84 X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:10:48 -0000 All, The tentative schedule for EAI IETF84 is here (Thursday 9am-11am local time at Vancouver). This is not yet final schedule, so please be careful of your travel planning (especially for anyone who is planning for single day only). Other *tentative* concurrent sessions with EAI: Georgia A APP eai Email Address Internationalization WG Regency B INT softwire Softwires WG Regency C OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Regency F RAI rtcweb Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers = WG Regency E RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Regency A SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG Regards, Joseph ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "IETF Secretariat" Date: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:18 PM Subject: eai - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 84 To: jyee@afilias.info Cc: eai-ads@tools.ietf.org, john-ietf@jck.com, jyee@afilias.info, wlo@amsl.= com Dear Joseph Yee, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. eai Session 1 (2:00:00) =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thursday, Morning Session I 0900-1130 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Room Name: Georgia A =C2=A0 =C2=A0--------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Area Name: Session Requester: Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): =C2=A02 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: =C2=A0First Priority: abfab apparea appsawg dnsext httpbis hybi iri kitten marf precis repute sieve urnbis weirds =C2=A0Second Priority: decade dnsop vcarddav Special Requests: =C2=A0additional 2nd priority conflict to avoid: all other APP area WGs and= BOFs --------------------------------------------------------- From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Fri Jun 29 15:13:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A69921F86A5 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z8vX4aIFrXvn for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com (mail-lb0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4744121F84BF for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbgo11 with SMTP id go11so5635468lbb.31 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jqpz8eIFi65vJo9foiEU7tUpBrvVzo16J8kukllfNKY=; b=Iu7oljP7jdbFZ0cUDDQ4RXLuIlW217WtoA1c/SN3QS5GwZjYIa0q8FW23zqD1ZojeS ppV/+LER9sYaLYI10OuDGV1N/DLovt8GVNxT/489550747NH8Q2oFdG2i/TTc9DwnLvz Vqq7FaonRq1UgKFhu/0GUhmZMGZwdhDXAijY1RVmfIHXsbc8XlTNi99BOvbKSCjyxnNR 4ckIfbOpheWL0Bw4ZwfjEL9PmYzLJ4Lj2xU+0FTvJGH/nZX4g5bvtuY83h6fCEdaFudc f9sXEss0brwNy0p9JqPmNnwQ9fianry4vdgHa7HPxnditMRCs3EuzDZpLVZGXAwGknNH DuKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.112.233 with SMTP id it9mr3606711lab.40.1341007983122; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.17.133 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:13:03 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: N-ugfv9q-rkJpTVL55UQId1LOMU Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: John C Klensin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040838d379994e04c3a3c026 Cc: "ima@ietf.org" Subject: [EAI] EAI last calls X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:13:05 -0000 --f46d040838d379994e04c3a3c026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > My/our plan is to do one WG LC on all four documents. Assuming > that works out, I'm going to ask Pete to issue a single IETF LC > on the four documents. That may or may not be possible given > existing tools (Pete is checking) He checked. The answer is that it was problematic when we did it before, for various reasons, and isn't possible with the tools now. What will happen is that all the last calls will go out at the same time, and the last-call messages will list the batch and ask people to review them all together. That is, of course, what we want anyway. So it just means there will be four messages, rather than just one. Barry --f46d040838d379994e04c3a3c026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > My/our plan is to do one WG LC = on all four documents. =A0Assuming
> that works out, I'm going to= ask Pete to issue a single IETF LC
> on the four documents. =A0That = may or may not be possible given
> existing tools (Pete is checking)

= He checked. =A0The answer is that it was problematic when we did it before,= for various reasons, and isn't possible with the tools now. =A0What wi= ll happen is that all the last calls will go out at the same time, and the = last-call messages will list the batch and ask people to review them all to= gether. =A0That is, of course, what we want anyway. =A0So it just means the= re will be four messages, rather than just one.

Barry
--f46d040838d379994e04c3a3c026-- From klensin@jck.com Fri Jun 29 15:20:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8666E11E8085 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.414 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.414 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PljO3psiJCHt for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CAB21F86B9 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 15:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SkjRN-000AFZ-3x; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:13:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:20:11 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: ima@ietf.org Subject: Re: [EAI] EAI last calls X-BeenThere: ima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAI \(Email Address Internationalization\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:20:20 -0000 --On Friday, June 29, 2012 18:13 -0400 Barry Leiba wrote: >> My/our plan is to do one WG LC on all four documents. >> Assuming that works out, I'm going to ask Pete to issue a >> single IETF LC on the four documents. That may or may not be >> possible given existing tools (Pete is checking) > > He checked. The answer is that it was problematic when we did > it before, for various reasons, and isn't possible with the > tools now. What will happen is that all the last calls will > go out at the same time, and the last-call messages will list > the batch and ask people to review them all together. That > is, of course, what we want anyway. So it just means there > will be four messages, rather than just one. It also presumably means four separate shepherd's reports, not one, four IESG votes, not one, and other bits of ways to have things go astray. It also means that a WG decision to break one logical document up into pieces to facilitate sharing the workload has fairly significant negative consequences at review time. I'll assume the two of you can and will manage it effectively, but, absent much more explanation of the reasons why it was problematic before (in the cases that I managed, it saved time and energy), I hate situations in which doing the right thing substantively is blocked by too-narrow tools. john-the-grump