From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 17 13:27:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01961 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cqbqi-0003Mk-5M for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:43:37 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HHxjsf016836 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:59:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0HHxiuO016835 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:59:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HHwrHh016792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:58:54 GMT Message-ID: <41EBFCDE.3060802@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:58:54 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Call for inputs for IETF-62 (Minneapolis) 6-11 March 2005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Sixty-second IETF meeting will be held 6-11 March 2005. We don't normally ask so far in advance for Agenda items for the next meeting, but with two documents currently in/completed WGLC, I'd like a sense of the likley inputs for the 62nd IETF in Minneapolis, MN, USA. A number of people promised inputs at the last IETF, and it's a good time to take stock on the current chartered milestones: * Done Draft of a WG Architecture ID describing usage of MPEG-2 transport for IP transmission. * Done Draft of a WG ID on the new Encapsulation. * Done Submit Architecture to IESG * Jan 05 Draft of a WG ID on the AR Framework, specifying mechanisms to perform address resolution. * Jan 05 Submit Encapsulation to IESG * Feb 05 Draft of a WG ID or the AR Protocol, defining a protocol to perform IP address resolution. * Oct 05 Submit AR Framework to IESG * Dec 05 Submit AR Protocol to IESG * Dec 05 Progress the Encapsulation RFC along the IETF standards track Could you please email me directly (or to the ipdvb list) if: * You intend to prepare/revise an Internet Draft for this meeting. * You would like to present/discuss a specific issue at the next IETF. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair). From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 17 13:46:02 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03276 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:46:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cqc8B-0003ot-Ky for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:01:42 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HIXQSb017679 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:33:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0HIXQcX017678 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:33:26 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from smtpout03-03.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout03-03.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.73]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j0HIWtVH017661 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:32:55 GMT Received: (qmail 2164 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 18:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail02.mesa1.secureserver.net) (64.202.166.81) by smtpout03-03.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 18:32:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 31540 invoked by uid 99); 17 Jan 2005 18:32:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20050117183255.31539.qmail@webmail02.mesa1.secureserver.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:32:55 -0700 From: Marie-Jose Montpetit Subject: RE: Call for inputs for IETF-62 (Minneapolis) 6-11 March 2005 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk cc: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 I will do a review of the AR and sbmit to the group to get in as a WG draft. I will also update config but I'm not sure if this one will be ready for becoming a WG draft. Marie-Jose > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Call for inputs for IETF-62 (Minneapolis) 6-11 March 2005 > From: "Gorry Fairhurst" > Date: Mon, January 17, 2005 12:58 pm > To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk > > The Sixty-second IETF meeting will be held 6-11 March 2005. We don't normally > ask so far in advance for Agenda items for the next meeting, but with two > documents currently in/completed WGLC, I'd like a sense of the likley inputs > for the 62nd IETF in Minneapolis, MN, USA. > > A number of people promised inputs at the last IETF, and it's a good time to > take stock on the current chartered milestones: > > > * Done Draft of a WG Architecture ID describing usage of MPEG-2 transport for > IP transmission. > * Done Draft of a WG ID on the new Encapsulation. > * Done Submit Architecture to IESG > > * Jan 05 Draft of a WG ID on the AR Framework, specifying mechanisms to > perform address resolution. > * Jan 05 Submit Encapsulation to IESG > * Feb 05 Draft of a WG ID or the AR Protocol, defining a protocol to perform > IP address resolution. > * Oct 05 Submit AR Framework to IESG > * Dec 05 Submit AR Protocol to IESG > * Dec 05 Progress the Encapsulation RFC along the IETF standards track > > > Could you please email me directly (or to the ipdvb list) if: > > * You intend to prepare/revise an Internet Draft for this meeting. > * You would like to present/discuss a specific issue at the next IETF. > > Best wishes, > > Gorry Fairhurst > (ipdvb WG Chair). From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 17 14:52:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA07492 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CqdA7-0005FA-Ip for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:07:45 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJbsmv019011 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:37:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0HJbsnx019010 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:37:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJaYcq018957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:36:35 GMT Message-ID: <41EC13C3.9000401@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:36:35 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cut-off dates for IETF-62 (Minneapolis) 6-11 March 2005 References: <20050117183255.31539.qmail@webmail02.mesa1.secureserver.net> In-Reply-To: <20050117183255.31539.qmail@webmail02.mesa1.secureserver.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marie-Jose and all people wishing to prepare submissions for the meeting, please note that the following cut-off dates apply: February 7, Monday - Cut-off for initial WG document (-00) notify WG Chair by 09:00 ET (14:00 GMT) February 14, Monday - Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) submission by 09:00 ET (14:00 GMT) February 21, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 09:00 ET (14:00 GMT) best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair) From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 17 15:01:50 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08533 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CqdJZ-0005Zx-43 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:17:29 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJh2nY019161 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:43:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0HJh2rV019160 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:43:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJgYVY019143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:42:34 GMT Message-ID: <41EC152B.7090701@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:42:35 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: I-D ACTION: draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For your information, the following draft has been issued. The previous rev. of this ID completed WGLC with several issues raised. New text has been provided to address these issues, a short WGLC will therefore be opened to allow any further comments on the revised document. This will be announced in a following email. Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair) ---- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP over DVB Working Group of the IETF. Title : Ultra Lightweight Encapsulation (ULE) for transmission of IP datagrams over MPEG-2/DVB networks Author(s) : G. Fairhurst, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt The MPEG-2 TS has been widely accepted not only for providing digital TV services, but also as a subnetwork technology for building IP networks. This document describes an Ultra Lightweight Encapsulation (ULE) mechanism for the transport of IPv4 and IPv6 Datagrams and other network protocol packets directly over ISO MPEG- 2 Transport Streams (TS) as TS Private Data. ULE supports an extension format that allows it to carry both optional (with an explicit extension length) and mandatory (with an implicit extension length) header information to assist in network/Receiver processing of a SNDU. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv at ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 17 15:06:06 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09061 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CqdNg-0005gs-IO for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:21:46 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJqZmv019473 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:52:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0HJqZIV019471 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:52:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0HJpVtS019425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:51:32 GMT Message-ID: <41EC1744.4090109@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:51:32 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re-opened WGLC on draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt for 25th January 2005. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I invite you to read and provide any comments/questions that you may have on the document below, to the ipdvb mailing list. This document is a revised version of the rev. -03, incorporating changes suggested during the WGLC of that revision. It also contains a revised Table of Contents and the change notices have been moved to the end of the document. This WG last call period will end on 25th January 2005. The document is at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt A detailed list of issues discussed during the previous WGLC is provided in: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/wglc-iss-ule-03.txt A file showing the differences presented in this rev has been uploaded to: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/rfcdiff-ule-03-04.html Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (IPDVB WG Chair) From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jan 21 08:44:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10095 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:44:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CrzLa-0003SL-Vm for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:01:13 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0LDHRHV028781 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:17:27 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0LDHR7q028780 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:17:27 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.56]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0LDGxAZ028764 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:16:59 GMT Received: by dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix, from userid 102) id 58FBAF9214; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:16:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [141.201.2.194] (wal.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.194]) by dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E88F92DD for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:16:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41F100C2.9090109@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:16:50 +0100 From: Wolfram Stering Organization: Dept. of Scientific Computing, Salzburg University User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (X11/20041127) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Re-opened WGLC on draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt for 25th January 2005. References: <41EC1744.4090109@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <41EC1744.4090109@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on dobermann.cosy.sbg.ac.at X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, having examined the new revision 04 of the ipdvb-ule draft, we found all our issues we reported during the last WGLC (see our email archieved in: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/archive/msg00861.html or Gorry's summary available in: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/wglc-iss-ule-03.txt) to be resolved. Many thanks for that work! cheers, - -wolfi Gorry Fairhurst wrote: | | Dear all, | | I invite you to read and provide any comments/questions that you may | have on the document below, to the ipdvb mailing list. This document is | a revised version of the rev. -03, incorporating changes suggested | during the WGLC of that revision. It also contains a revised Table of | Contents and the change notices have been moved to the end of the | document. This WG last call period will end on 25th January 2005. | | The document is at: | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt | | A detailed list of issues discussed during the previous WGLC is provided | in: | http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/wglc-iss-ule-03.txt | | A file showing the differences presented in this rev has been uploaded to: | http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ip-dvb/ids/rfcdiff-ule-03-04.html | | | Best wishes, | | Gorry Fairhurst | (IPDVB WG Chair) - -- Wolfram Stering, Department of Scientific Computing, Salzburg University Tel: +43 (0)662 8044 6334 Fax: +43 (0)662 8044 172 ~ "If we knew what it was we were doing ~ it would not be called research, would it?" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFB8QDBT6QrHIZlQ3kRAmZXAJ955q/9iIHub8ncmhKo1fn74Jq5gACg7eEE 0na3/TMu6kgBGt3ao5A6rh0= =UebZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Jan 27 15:11:16 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19005 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CuGGE-0005RF-VE for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:29:04 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0RJoOXl005235 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:50:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0RJoOfq005234 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:50:24 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0RJntV9005211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:49:56 GMT Message-ID: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:49:56 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: END of WGLC draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This note ends the WG Last-Call for comments for the WG document named below: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt The document will now progress to Area Director review, a copy of the emailin requesting publication will be sent to this mailing list. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair) From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jan 28 10:43:12 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10184 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CuYYX-0007nW-Tl for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:01:11 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0SFPdxR027606 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:25:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0SFPcfE027605 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:25:39 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from hnse2.hns.com (hnse2.hns.com [208.236.67.202]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0SFP6PA027588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:25:07 GMT Received: from excore8.hns.com (excore8.hns.com [139.85.52.126]) by hnse2.hns.com (Switch-3.1.0/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j0SFOxMa007163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlas (atlas.hns.com [139.85.177.110]) by excore8.hns.com (Switch-3.1.0/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j0SFOQfd005974 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:24:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Roderick Ragland/HNS is out of the office. From: Roderick Ragland To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:01:12 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Atlas/HNS(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 01/28/2005 10:22:52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Filtered: Sendmail Attachment Filter v2.7.1 hnse2.hns.com j0SFOxMa007163 X-AntiVirus: Sendmail Anti-Virus Filter hnse2.hns.com 4.3.20 4100 j0SFOxMa007163 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 I will be out of the office starting 01/27/2005 and will not return until 01/31/2005. I will respond to your message when I return. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Sun Jan 30 11:32:57 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13957 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:32:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvIID-0004dt-EX for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:51:21 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0UFRhgD012431 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:27:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0UFRhIU012430 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:27:43 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0UFQgsm012393 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:43 GMT Received: from copernicus ([151.204.252.163]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20050130152642.DHFJ24714.out010.verizon.net@copernicus> for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:26:42 -0600 Message-ID: <01c501c506e0$19133fa0$ad02a8c0@copernicus> From: "Marie-Jose Montpetit" To: Subject: Re: END of WGLC draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:26:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C506B6.2C838B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [151.204.252.163] at Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:26:37 -0600 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C506B6.2C838B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Group: Sorry for being late. I have reviewed the latest ULE draft and find it in agreement with the ARCH= draft and in no way empeding further developments in the WG in terms of ad= dress management or other potential IP over DVB protocols. I believe this R= ev is ready for publication. Marie-Jose= ------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C506B6.2C838B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Group:
 
Sorry for being late.
 
I have reviewed the latest ULE draft and f= ind it=20 in agreement with the ARCH draft and in no way empeding further=20 developments in the WG in terms of address management or other potenti= al IP=20 over DVB protocols. I believe this Rev is ready for=20 publication.
 
Marie-Jose
------=_NextPart_000_01C2_01C506B6.2C838B00-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Sun Jan 30 21:00:58 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22174 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:00:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvR9y-0006NH-GL for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:19:27 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0V1icZ9020760 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:44:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0V1ictN020759 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:44:38 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.4]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0V1i6K3020743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:44:07 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (imh [134.102.224.4]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0V1i3oE019008; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 02:44:04 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Carsten Bormann From: Carsten Bormann Subject: Re: END of WGLC draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 02:44:02 +0100 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS/Sophos at informatik.uni-bremen.de X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apologize for being late with reviewing this draft. I have a couple (63, to be precise) editorial comments that I have sent to the authors. No big problems in here, but some language that the authors may or may not want to improve (and some minor contradictions that have an obvious resolution). I'll leave it to the discretion of the authors how to use these comments. One question though: Why is it that ethertype frames can be sent without MAC but length (LLC) frames can't? Is the assumption that all LLC protocols need full MAC addresses? I don't know all existing LLC protocols, but I know at least one proposal for one that probably doesn't. It would be easy to introduce a mandatory extension header 2, which is like 1 (i.e., does not allow chaining) but leaves out the 14 bytes of (DA, SA, Type -- the latter is redundant with the LLC length), leading to: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |1| Length (15b) | Type = 0x0002 | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | | = LLC payload = | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | (CRC-32) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (and the obvious equivalent for D=0). Oh, and I'm a bit confused about the IANA policies (why do the specs only have to define name, value, need, and intent? Wouldn't semantics be nice?). Gruesse, Carsten From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 07:26:38 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA21153 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvavY-0001W8-FY for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:45:13 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VBl9l0001396 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:47:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VBl8uV001395 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:47:08 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VBk2Nx001348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:46:03 GMT Message-ID: <41FE1A7A.4060105@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:46:02 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk CC: Carsten Bormann Subject: Re: END of WGLC draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-04.txt References: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Carsten!!!!! Carsten Bormann wrote: > I apologize for being late with reviewing this draft. That was just in time:-) > I have a couple (63, to be precise) editorial comments that I have sent > to the authors. > No big problems in here, but some language that the authors may or may > not want to improve (and some minor contradictions that have an obvious > resolution). > I'll leave it to the discretion of the authors how to use these comments. > Detailed reviews by others are always most useful. The authors will work through the NiTs and minor issues. I'll make sure any difficult/ambiguos issues are brought back to this list. > One question though: Why is it that ethertype frames can be sent without > MAC but length (LLC) frames can't? Yes we should talk about this on the list. I've made a separate thread on LLC > > Oh, and I'm a bit confused about the IANA policies (why do the specs > only have to define name, value, need, and intent? Wouldn't semantics be > nice?). > Yes, indeed you shouldn't be confused - the Specifications of ExtensionHeaders MUST also DEFINE the symantics/procedures to be used for the extensions. This should be made clear in the next draft! > Gruesse, Carsten > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 08:37:53 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29799 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cvc2U-0003SB-A8 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:56:28 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VDHfT1003744 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:17:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VDHf0U003743 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:17:41 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VDGqrL003709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:16:52 GMT Message-ID: <41FE2FC4.6000805@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:16:52 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk CC: Carsten Bormann Subject: LLC support in DVB , ATSC, MPEG-2? References: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, I'd like to ask the group as a whole, what they see as the usage of LLC within DVB, ATSC, or any MPEG-2 based transmission network? Carsten Bormann wrote: > > One question though: Why is it that ethertype frames can be sent without > MAC but length (LLC) frames can't? So the WG did discuss this, but it seems worthwhile checking again that we have got this correct. The history as I recall is: (i) Do we need LLC? Yes (discussed at both ipdvb BoF as well as at other times), we should supportLLC, because of it use/potential use for OSPF; Bridging; L2 Management/devcice discovery (ii) Non-issues for ULE. LLC is also used: - To raise the ETnerenet frame size above that of traditional Ethernet - To provide a Type field (not present in basic MPE header). Both of these are supported natively within ULE without the need for LLC/SNAP > Is the assumption that all LLC protocols need full MAC addresses? So, yes that was it. - My understanding was that because this was an IEEE protocol, and much of the use of LLC reflected use in a bridged network, then it was best to include both a source and destination MAC address. > I don't know all existing LLC protocols, Nor me --- can anyone else on this list help? > but I know at least one > proposal for one that probably doesn't. Aha - Do tell more... > It would be easy to introduce a mandatory extension header 2, which is > like 1 (i.e., does not allow chaining) but leaves out the 14 bytes of > (DA, SA, Type -- the latter is redundant with the LLC length), leading to: > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |1| Length (15b) | Type = 0x0002 | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | | > = LLC payload = > | | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | (CRC-32) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > (and the obvious equivalent for D=0). > I'm keen to understand first the intended usage.... > Gruesse, Carsten > > Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 08:55:02 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA01908 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 08:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvcJ6-0003u4-8a for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:13:37 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VDWKVq004129 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:32:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VDWKp2004128 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:32:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.4]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VDVpHN004105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:31:51 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (imh [134.102.224.4]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VDVjLK011122; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:31:46 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <41FE2FC4.6000805@erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <41FE2FC4.6000805@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <904a5ff0bd74cd8d26b2e76016f88483@tzi.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk, Carsten Bormann From: Carsten Bormann Subject: Re: LLC support in DVB , ATSC, MPEG-2? Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:31:43 +0100 To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS/Sophos at informatik.uni-bremen.de X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (i) Do we need LLC? > Yes (discussed at both ipdvb BoF as well as at other times), we should > supportLLC, because of it use/potential use for OSPF; > Bridging; L2 Management/devcice discovery LLC is also the basis for SNAP. > (ii) Non-issues for ULE. > LLC is also used: > - To raise the ETnerenet frame size above that of traditional Ethernet > - To provide a Type field (not present in basic MPE header). > Both of these are supported natively within ULE without the need for > LLC/SNAP SNAP can be used for protocols other than those that have an ethertype. Again, I don't know all protocols... >> Is the assumption that all LLC protocols need full MAC addresses? > > So, yes that was it. > > - My understanding was that because this was an IEEE protocol, and > much of the use of LLC reflected use in a bridged network, then it was > best to include both a source and destination MAC address. I'd say leave this for the encapsulator to decide. Assuming that ROHC over 802 goes the LLC route, it is not a given to me that we always need MAC addresses. >> It would be easy to introduce a mandatory extension header 2, which >> is like 1 (i.e., does not allow chaining) but leaves out the 14 bytes >> of (DA, SA, Type -- the latter is redundant with the LLC length), >> leading to: >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> |1| Length (15b) | Type = 0x0002 >> | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | >> | >> = LLC payload >> = >> | >> | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | (CRC-32) >> | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> (and the obvious equivalent for D=0). > > I'm keen to understand first the intended usage.... This would be used for compressed voice in a ROHC/RTP scenario. The LLC payload would contain the necessary glue, a ROHC header (which has a context ID useful for demultiplexing), and the voice payload (say, 10 bytes). Adding MAC addresses and another (redundant) type/length field makes this SNDU significantly larger. An NPA may or may not be necessary, depending on the specific use. Gruesse, Carsten From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 10:37:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13075 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cvdu7-0006Kh-14 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:55:55 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VF6q72006261 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:06:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VF6qXe006260 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:06:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VF5mvQ006227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:05:50 GMT Message-ID: <41FE494D.2000607@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:05:49 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carsten Bormann CC: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: LLC support in DVB , ATSC, MPEG-2? References: <41F945E4.1040403@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <41FE2FC4.6000805@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <904a5ff0bd74cd8d26b2e76016f88483@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <904a5ff0bd74cd8d26b2e76016f88483@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right, I (personally) do think it would be good to explore ROHC requirements for ipdvb. Perhaps we should point this list to the ROHC draft? 1) MPE+LLC/SNAP+ROHC To support ROHC over MPE would need LLC/SNAP - which has overhead/processing drawbacks. This mitigates the benefit from performing ROHC in this case. 2) ULE+Bridging+LLC+ROHC I can see why an LLC-based method could serve ROHC well when ROHC may have to cross a L2 Ethernet subnetwork - especially when some of the L2 devices act as bridges (such as Wireless APs). To support ROHC over ULE using LLC would currently also require the Bridging Extension. If the ULE gateway is operating in a Bridging mode, this seems rather like the case for an 802.11 AP. So I'd have expected it to work with LLC bridging - but there is an overhead. 3) Other Options? If the ULE-capable device is a router, you could have saved bytes by suppressing some fields. If you intend to use a L2 code point (LLC-Type), but at the same time do not need the L2 end point identifier (MAC Addresses), I think I need to understand more. Clearly it would be posisble to define a header of this sort - but then it creates more Receiver de-multiplexing options... One thought: If the WG envisages only one or a small number of uses for an LLC without MAC mode, would it make sense to think of a separate IANA assignment(s) for a Mndatory Type value from the ULE Registry? And what would the protocol dependices be on ROHC --- would the same ROHC methods still work? Gorry Carsten Bormann wrote: >> (i) Do we need LLC? >> Yes (discussed at both ipdvb BoF as well as at other times), we should >> supportLLC, because of it use/potential use for OSPF; >> Bridging; L2 Management/devcice discovery > > > LLC is also the basis for SNAP. > >> (ii) Non-issues for ULE. >> LLC is also used: >> - To raise the ETnerenet frame size above that of traditional Ethernet >> - To provide a Type field (not present in basic MPE header). >> Both of these are supported natively within ULE without the need for >> LLC/SNAP > > > SNAP can be used for protocols other than those that have an ethertype. > Again, I don't know all protocols... > >>> Is the assumption that all LLC protocols need full MAC addresses? >> >> >> So, yes that was it. >> >> - My understanding was that because this was an IEEE protocol, and >> much of the use of LLC reflected use in a bridged network, then it was >> best to include both a source and destination MAC address. > > > I'd say leave this for the encapsulator to decide. > Assuming that ROHC over 802 goes the LLC route, it is not a given to me > that we always need MAC addresses. > >>> It would be easy to introduce a mandatory extension header 2, which >>> is like 1 (i.e., does not allow chaining) but leaves out the 14 bytes >>> of (DA, SA, Type -- the latter is redundant with the LLC length), >>> leading to: >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> |1| Length (15b) | Type = 0x0002 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | | >>> = LLC payload = >>> | | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | (CRC-32) | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> (and the obvious equivalent for D=0). >> >> >> I'm keen to understand first the intended usage.... > > > This would be used for compressed voice in a ROHC/RTP scenario. > The LLC payload would contain the necessary glue, a ROHC header (which > has a context ID useful for demultiplexing), and the voice payload (say, > 10 bytes). > Adding MAC addresses and another (redundant) type/length field makes > this SNDU significantly larger. > An NPA may or may not be necessary, depending on the specific use. > > Gruesse, Carsten > > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 11:02:32 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16064 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:02:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CveIV-0006rP-6C for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:21:08 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VFfYuV007240 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:41:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VFfXVF007231 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:41:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from Saltzman.net (12-217-190-152.client.mchsi.com [12.217.190.152]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j0VFd453007127 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:39:05 GMT Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:39:05 -0600 To: "Ipdvb" From: "Gorry" Subject: {Filename?} Is delivered mail Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--------qgylgqtlfyczatuunvlz" X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be infected, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-SpamScore: ss X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b ----------qgylgqtlfyczatuunvlz Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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----------qgylgqtlfyczatuunvlz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; name="ERG-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ERG-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *** This is an automated warning message *** is on the list of unacceptable attachments for this site and has been replaced by this warning message. Due to limitations placed on us by the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, we were unable to keep a copy of the original attachment. At Mon Jan 31 15:41:27 2005 the virus scanner said: MailScanner: Control panel items are often used to hide viruses (Jol03.c= pl) -- Virus Admin (virus-admin@erg.abdn.ac.uk) Electronics Research Group, Dept of Engineering, University of Aberdeen. ----------qgylgqtlfyczatuunvlz-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jan 31 12:45:02 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28084 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:45:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CvfqW-0001FP-EC for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:03:40 -0500 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VHM3BC009712 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:22:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j0VHM3YI009711 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:22:03 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0VHKQCw009668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:20:27 GMT Message-ID: <41FE68DA.1020507@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:20:26 +0000 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Forward from Art Alison: WGLC ULE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-To: ipdvb-subscribed-users@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WG please read and respond to this message. The following message was received on January 22nd before WGLC, but was dropped because the email source address was not verified by the list server. The exact text of the message follows. best wishes, Gorry (ipdvb WG Chair) ----- Thanks for considering my previous input... I note that the new draft has an editorial oversight in that it contains two definitions of PSI. I suggest the second should be deleted. I previously made a comment about the ancillary requirements when adding a TS logical channel to a TS multiplex and asserted there appeared to be under specification. Perhaps it was viewed as out of scope, or perhaps I simply don't recognize the change that resulted. I can not find what stream_type is required to be used for the ULE stream when a "TS Logical Channel" is added to a multiplex. I suggest at least an informative note be added in Section 6 (after the third line which says: "These are transmitted using a single TS Logical Channel over a TS Multiplex.") The note should say "PSI entries to be consistent with [ISO-MPEG] when constructing a conformant TS Multiplex and means for Receivers to locate each such TS Logical Channel are outside the scope of this recommendation." Reason: Just inserting a "TS Logical Channel" without including a TS_Program_map_section that lists the PID and a stream_type does not appear to me to result in a strictly MPEG-2 conformant bit stream; and practically could result in the PIDs being dropped by a remultiplexer. If the means for binding the inserted element into a multiplex and subsequent discovery is to be covered in another document, a pointer to that document would be more helpful than this warning. It seems at least a warning is needed and preferably a pointer to where this next level of TS construction is defined. Art Allison Director, Advanced Engineering NAB Science & Technology 1771 N St NW, Washington Dc 20036 202 429 5418