From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Fri Apr 1 09:09:54 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28249 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:09:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHMTv-0001U6-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:46:39 -0600 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHMTu-0001U0-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:46:39 -0600 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:45:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [ipfix] Common IPFIX and PSAMP info model and delta timestamp Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:45:24 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Common IPFIX and PSAMP info model and delta timestamp Thread-Index: AcU13GVXouJJ5fywTHOtQyxxoY8/CAAJLrSg From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Benoit Claise" , "Juergen Quittek" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2005 13:45:25.0832 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F023C80:01C536C1] Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit and Juergen, It is not exact that "we still have to work on PSAMP information model". = During the discussion in PSAMP and in IPFIX I proposed to start this = effort now. Chairs responded that as WGs are behind the schedule there = was no time for this point.=20 As PSAMP use IPFIX protocol to export packets information, as delta = timetamping is crucial for both WGs it is clear that this issue should = be solved not only for microsecond but for millisecond and nanosecond = too. As PSAMP uses IPFIX protocol and IPFIX info model framework and = field types, there is no doubt that this point has to be addressed = before their WG LC. The best way consists in introducing the notion of Data Set Scope in = regular templates and to use the 'Scope Field count' (preferable as a = field type 'ScopeFieldNumber') to identify the fields that are either = only present in the first record (last proposal) or that have a = different subtype in the fist record than in the others (first and = preferred proposal because record keep the same # of fields).=20 This proposal has many benefits. It works for millisecond, microsecond = and nanosecond; it will work for counters too. It simplifies the = protocol because Template and Option Templates use the same format. = Delta timestamping introduces no more side effects between the metering = entity and the exporter. The meaning and the unit of the field "export = time" of the header of the message does not change with implementations. Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 31 mars 2005 12:28 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > Cc=A0: Lutz Mark; Juergen Quittek; ippm@ietf.org; = ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > Objet=A0: Re: Common templates for exporting measurement results and > middlebox metrics >=20 > Hi Emile, >=20 > >Hi Benoit, > > > >It is clear that IPFIX is suitable to export binary data such as > measurement results (either active or passive). > > > >Having common templates and clear metrics definitions is the only way = to > increase the usability, interoperability and the scalability of the > collecting part of measurement systems. > > > > > Agreed on the clear metrics definitions, this is the IPPM WG job. > Regarding the common templates, I'm more in favor of letting the user > export what they need with a flexible export mechanism such as IPFIX. > Imposing the templates is not the right approach. We tried that with > NetFlow version 5: it doesn't scale when you have new Information > Elements. Therefore NetFlow version 9 was created. Note for the IPPM > users: IPFIX is based on NetFlow version 9. >=20 > >Templates: > >---------- > > > >Nevertheless there are at least 3 issues with the current version of > IPFIX: > > Field Types SampleID, metricID are missing; > > > > > SampleId is a typical PSAMP field that will be specified in the > information model. See the selectorID ... unless I misunderstood what > you meant with SampleID. Maybe you mean a hash value? Again it will > defined part of PSAMP. >=20 > > The current delta timestamp computation is not applicable to measure > related to delay or jitter; > > > > > > Templates are not defined; > > > > > See my point above. >=20 > >That fully motivates the first I-D "common templates for exporting > measure results". It will fully specify the templates to export active = and > passive measurement result; > > > >Metrics: > >-------- > > > >draft-ietf-ipfix-as-04.txt presents several usages for IPFIX. One of = them > consists in using PSAMP technique to measure IPPM metrics. = Unfortunately > the current IPPM metrics definitions are not directly applicable to = this > technique. They must be adapted to routers and middlebox. > > > >This is clearly the intent of the second I-D "traceroute and = middlebox > metrics". Each section defining a metric will discuss measurement = issues > related to the measure, the reporting... as RFC2679-80 do. > > > > > >IPFIX Info Model: > >----------------- > > > >I explained in the last PSAMP meeting (discussion related to = draft-pohl- > perpktinfo-02.txt) that we have to identify the few field types needed = in > the info model. What about basically adding PacketID, SampleID, = metricID > and MeasureID in the IPFIX info model? > > > > > We still have to work on the PSAMP information model >=20 > > > >IPFIX Protocol: > >--------------- > > > >Regarding measurement result, delta timestamping is the major issue. = The > current approach is not applicable to measurement results and does not > conform to the IPFIX architecture. I proposed yesterday a solution. > > > I replied to it. Let's keep 2 separate threads (BTW, I still don't > understand why it doesn't conform to the IPFIX architecture) >=20 > Regards, Benoit. >=20 > >What is the opinion of the WG fellows on this proposal? > > > > > >Regards > >Emile > > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] > >Envoy=E9 : mercredi 30 mars 2005 23:30 > >=C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > >Cc : Juergen Quittek; Lutz Mark; ippm@ietf.org; = ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > >Objet : Re: [ipfix] RE: [ippm] traceroute as WG work item? IPFIX > traceroute records > > > >Emile, > > > >If there is a need to push some IPPM data to a NMS (as opposed to = pull > >the data with SNMP), then the IPFIX protocol makes perfect sense as = it > >is efficient and flexible. > >BTW, this is described in the IPFIX applicability draft > >(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-04.txt) > > > > 2.7 SLA validation...........................................8 > > 2.8 Traffic Monitoring.......................................8 > > 2.8.1 Measurement of Round-trip-time (RTT)....................9 > > 2.8.2 Measurement of One-way-delay (OWD)......................9 > > 2.8.3 Measurement of One-way-loss (OWL)......................10 > > 2.8.4 Measurement of IP delay variation (IPDV)...............10 > > 3.3 IPFIX and IPPM > > > >Note that this draft speaks of passive measurements as opposed to = active > measurements in IPPM. > >However, from the pure IPFIX protocol point of view, the measurement > mechanism is not relevant. > > > >Regards, Benoit. > > > > > > > >>Hi Juergen and Lutz > >> > >>What we experienced with the IPPM MIB is that measures generate a = lot of > data. So the binary format is the best for collecting. > >> > >>Traceroute Field Types do not differ from Per Packet Field Types = (draft- > pohl-perpktinfo-02.txt) or from IPPM Field Types, especially if we = include > spatial and multicast metrics = (dratf-stephan-ippm-multimetrics-00.txt). > >> > >>Moreover most of these fields are already defined as illustrated by = the > example I sent. So it appears very fast and very easy to define in = IPFIX a > common info model and a common set of templates to export results of = IPPM > measures, traceroute measures and 'Per Packet' measures. > >> > >>Regarding traceroute metric I propose to try to design this metric = using > the IPPM framework and terminology (RFC2330), and then to present it = to > the IPPM WG. At large this document may include metrics definitions of > middlebox one-way delay and jitter corresponding to 'Per Packet' > measurement technique. > >> > >>To sum up I propose to write 2 drafts: > >> The fist one defines in the IPFIX WG common templates for exporting > measure results; > >> The second one defines in the IPPM WG traceroute and middlebox > metrics. > >> > >>Regards > >>Emile > >> > >>-----Message d'origine----- > >>De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:quittek@netlab.nec.de] > >>Envoy=E9 : lundi 28 mars 2005 03:06 > >>=C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > >>Cc : ippm@ietf.org; ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > >>Objet : RE: [ippm] traceroute as WG work item? IPFIX traceroute = records > >> > >>Emile, > >> > >>Thanks for your comments! > >> > >>The basic issue I raised was whether or not the standardization > >>of an information model and data model for traceroute results would > >>be a work item for the IPPM WG. > >> > >>Do I understand correctly from your message that, > >> 1. yes, it should be standardized, > >> 2. but not necessarily in the IPPM WG? > >> > >>Concerning the discussion at IPPM whether we should use a binary > >>or an XML-based format for traceroute results, I interpret your > >>message as support for a binary format. > >> > >>I think your thoughts open an interesting discussion on transmitting > >>traceroute results in IPFIX records. Probably, this issue is worth > >>mentioning it in the IPFIX applicability statement. > >> > >>Also, the issue should be considered by the information model > discussions > >>in IPFIX and PSAMP. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >> Juergen > >> > >> > >> > >> -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sat Apr 2 09:27:44 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24951 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHjEE-0005Fy-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:03:58 -0600 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHjED-0005Ft-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:03:57 -0600 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j32E3uM27752 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:03:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.80.26] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4123.cisco.com [10.61.80.26]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j32E3sK13803 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:03:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <424EA649.1010405@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 16:03:53 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-protocol] new version of the IPFIX protocol draft: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080804040808030701080505" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080804040808030701080505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I just posted a new version of IPFIX protocol draft. I've addressed all the remaining issues. - "Should there be any apparent discrepancy in definitions between these two documents, the definitions defined in this document take precedence." removed - "The scope is an Information Element specified in the IPFIX Information Model [IPFIX-INFO]." added. - Section "IPFIX Message Header "Export Time" and Flow Record Time" rewritten - "0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970" now specifies the day - "Following a configuration change that can modify the interpretation of the Data Records (for example, a sampling rate change) a new Template ID MUST be used and the old Template ID MUST NOT be reused until its lifetime (see section 10.3.7) has expired. " - "Collecting Process**" section improved wrt to the lifetime. - "Multiple TCP connections MAY be used to avoid head-of-line between different Observation Domains." Regards, Benoit. --------------080804040808030701080505 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

I just posted a new version of IPFIX protocol draft.
I've addressed all the remaining issues.

- "Should  there be any apparent discrepancy in definitions between these two documents, the definitions defined in this document take precedence." removed
- "The scope is an Information Element specified in the IPFIX Information Model [IPFIX-INFO]." added.
- Section "IPFIX Message Header "Export Time" and Flow Record Time" rewritten
- "0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970" now specifies the day
-  "Following a configuration change that can modify the interpretation of the Data Records (for example, a sampling rate change) a new Template ID MUST be used and the old Template ID MUST NOT be reused until its lifetime (see section 10.3.7) has expired. "
- "Collecting Process" section improved wrt to the lifetime.
- "Multiple TCP connections MAY be used to avoid head-of-line between different Observation Domains."

Regards, Benoit.





--------------080804040808030701080505-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sat Apr 2 09:49:59 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA26317 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHjc2-0005jT-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:28:34 -0600 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHjc0-0005jO-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:28:32 -0600 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j32ESVY29174; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:28:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.80.26] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4123.cisco.com [10.61.80.26]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j32ESSK21962; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:28:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <424EAC0C.4070002@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 16:28:28 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN CC: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-protocol] Re: common Template format & absolute/delta timestamp References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040105010508000506090000" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040105010508000506090000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by av-tac-bru.cisco.com id j32ESVY29174 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Emile, >Hi Benoit > > >You said " > =20 > >>If you have different time on the Observation Domain (source ID), and >>the Exporting Process, a solution is to use the absolute timestamps in >>the data records. >> >> =20 >> >" > >As defined by the architecture the Source of the 'Data Set' (the meterin= g point) and the Exporter are separate entities. > They could. > So in most of the cases they have different sources of time (especially= if we take in account aggregation points). So, no way, timestamping is a= central information element for flows and measurement, and delta timesta= mping is crucial to save bandwidth. > =20 > Flow Record=20 =20 A Flow Record contains information about a specific Flow _that was=20 observed at an Observation Point._ ... The approach in the draft was: this is also for the case for the time: we= take the time at the observation point. Now, 3 different situations: 1. synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter -> you could use the absolute time Information Elements in the data re= cords if you want to save some CPU -> you could use the delta time Information Elements in the data recor= ds if you want to save some bandwidth 2. non synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter= , but very close time (for example: a line card has got 1 sec. extra com= pared to the route processor because it booted a little lit later -> you could use the absolute time Information Elements in the data re= cords if you want to save some CPU -> you could use the delta time Information Elements in the data recor= ds if you want to save some bandwidth In rare condition, you might have a problem if the flow starts just= at=20 the 71 minutes boundary. 3. non synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter= , but no very close (for example: longer that 71 minutes).=20 -> you must use the absolute time Information Elements in the data rec= ords Note: this implies that a mediation device must use the absolute time if it doesn't forward directly the data records. > >You said " > =20 > >>I'm not in favor of this approach as you now have dependencies between >>Information Elements. >>I mean that the meaning of the I.E. Y will depend on the meaning of I.E= . X. >>If the collector doesn't have the I.E. X in his information model, you >>can't conclude anything about Y >>If the application that uses the data records doesn't have the >>intelligence that there is a relation between those 2 I.E., again this >>is a problem >> =20 >> >" > >The current delta timestamping introduces much more new dependencies tha= t the one I propose: > >Currently values of deltatimestamping IEs are modified by the exporter a= ccording to a value of a field of the header. It introduces dependencies = between information blocks separated by 3 different levels ('Message head= er'.'Data flow sets'.'Data flow set'.'IE value') and managed by different= entities.=20 > =20 > Currently, there is a dependency on the Message Header. All IPFIX=20 collecting process MUST anyway be able to understand it to decode the=20 data records. With your proposal, there is a dependency between I.E. I think this is=20 worse. >The current delta timestamping is a new job and a new task for the Expor= ter. The exporter must be able to identify IEs to re-comptute (So he must= know any IE used by the meter: is it its job? what happen is a new one i= s used by the metering entity?); Moreover as the exporter must re-compute= any timestamps there is a risk to overload the exporter (at large comput= ing take time so when the last one will be computed the "export time" wil= l have changed...); > =20 > Again, if you want to save some CPU on the network element, use the=20 absolute timestamps. > =09 >My proposal respects the separation between metering entity and Exporter= . IE values are not modified and the dependency is managed by the meterin= g entity inside each 'Data Set'. The Exporter is not impacted. The collec= tor received 'Data Set' including the reference of time of the delta time= stamp IEs it carries.=20 > =20 > We can achieve that right now with absolute time I.E. Regards, Benoit. >The dependency comes only from the delta timestamp requirement we have.=20 > >Regards >Emile > > > =20 > >>-----Message d'origine----- >>De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] >>Envoy=E9 : jeudi 31 mars 2005 12:23 >>=C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN >>Cc : Sebastian Zander; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu= ; >>Juergen Quittek >>Objet : Re: common Template format & absolute/delta timestamp >> >>Emile, >> >> =20 >> >>>Hi >>> >>>Following is a proposal of a common format for Option Template and >>>Template which offers 'Flow Data Set' with the capability to carry >>>absolute time reference and delta timestamps. >>> >>>This proposal is fully compatible the semantic and the encoding of >>>existing templates and data records. An Option Template is defined usi= ng >>>the regular Template format: field types are systematically aligned on >>>32 bits, so enterprise bit detection is much more easy and fast. >>> >>> >>>Common format for Option Template and Template: >>>----------------------------------------------- >>> >>>Option Template format differs from Template format because of the >>>presence of the field 'Scope Field Count' in the Option Template forma= t. >>>So an Option Template may be defined using the Template format if we >>>define 'Scope Field Count' as a Field Type in the info model. >>>That will not introduce any ambiguity because a collector uses the val= ue >>>of the first field of the template (Set ID =3D 3) to distinguish an Op= tion >>>Template from a Template. >>> >>>Example: >>> >>>We define the field type 'ScopeFieldNumbers' (e.g. identifier 1034) in >>>the info model. >>> >>>The example of the page 58 "16.4.3 Options Template Set using an >>>Enterprise Specific scope" of protocol-09.txt becomes: >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Set ID =3D 3 | Length =3D 28 = | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Template ID 257 | Field Count =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | ScopeFieldNumbers =3D 1034 | 1 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> |1| Scope 1 Field Type =3D 123 | Enterprise Number ... >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> ... | Scope 1 Field Length =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | exportedPacketCount =3D 41 | Field Length =3D 4 = | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | exportedFlowCount =3D 42 | Field Length =3D 4 = | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>>The format of the Options Data Records do not change >>> >>> In this example, we report the following two Options Data Records: >>> Line Card ID | IPFIX Message | Exported Flow Records >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Line Card 1 (lineCardId=3D1) | 345 | 10201 >>> Line Card 2 (lineCardId=3D2) | 690 | 20402 >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Set ID =3D 257 | Length =3D 20 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 1 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 345 | 10201 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 2 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 690 | 20402 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>>Template Set offering absolute time reference and delta timestamp: >>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>Discussion: >>>We must preserve the separation of the exporter/sourceID defined in th= e >>>architecture: 'Export Time' is the time the message leaves the exporte= r >>>and consequently 'Export Time' is set by the exporter which uses its o= wn >>>reference of time; Data record timestamps, if any, are set by the >>>'Source ID' which uses its own reference of time. >>> >>> >>> =20 >>> >>If you have different time on the Observation Domain (source ID), and >>the Exporting Process, a solution is to use the absolute timestamps in >>the data records. >> >> =20 >> >>>Allowing the exporter to choose different references of time for 'Expo= rt >>>Time' will lead to many interoperability issues because the message >>>header doesn't describe which reference of time is used and consequent= ly >>>collectors will not be able to discover the encoding of the reference = of >>>time. Are we ready to accept to add a new field in the header of the >>>message? >>> >>>Allowing the exporter to compute delta timestamp will mix the meter >>>clock and the exporter clock. That will corrupt timestamps accuracy >>>because such difference of time will mix the 2 clocks synchronisation >>>skews and siblings. The consequence is that the best accuracy of the >>>flow record will be the accuracy of the exporter process even if the >>>meter accuracy is much more precise. >>> >>>I really agree with the motivation and the need: it is a MUST. But we >>>MUST keep separated the semantic of the message header from the semant= ic >>>of templates, moreover from the semantic of individual Field Type. I a= m >>>convinced that the only way to address this issue is to provide the >>>'Observation Domain' with a mechanism to mix absolute times reference >>>and delta time references in a 'Flow Data Records'. >>> >>>Following is a proposal which reuse the ScopeFieldNumbers defined abov= e: >>> >>>Using the ScopeFieldNumbers, a regular template informs the collector = of >>>the number of fields which are only present in the first first record = of >>>the 'Flow Data Records'. >>> >>> >>>Example: >>> >>>We (re)define the field type 'dateTimeMicroSeconds' (e.g. identifier >>>1052) in the info model. >>>Using the ScopeFieldNumbers, a regular template informs the collector >>>that the absolute time dateTimeMicroSeconds is only present in the fir= st >>>field of the first record of the 'Flow Data Records'. >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Set ID =3D 0 | Length =3D 32 = | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Template ID 256 | Field Count =3D 6 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | ScopeFieldNumbers =3D 1034 | 1 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | dateTimeMicroSeconds =3D 1052 | Field Length =3D 8 = | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 156(flowStartDeltaUSecondst) | Field Length =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 157 (flowEndDeltaUSeconds) | Field Length =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 8 (sourceIPv4Address) | Field Length =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | 12 (destinationIPv4Address) | Field Length =3D 4 | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>>Following is a flow data set. It contains 3 records. The first one has= 5 >>>fields. Others have 4 fields. >>> >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| Set ID =3D 256 | Length =3D 60 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 4575688568445 | >>>absolute >>>+ + micr= o >>>| 7875224045965 | >>>seconds >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 5000 | delt= a >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micr= o >>>| 5500 | seco= nd >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.7 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.18 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 6000 | delt= a >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micr= o >>>| 8000 | seco= nd >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.17 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.19 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 6010 | delt= a >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micr= o >>>| 7000 | seco= nd >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.25 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>| 192.181.17.28 | >>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> =20 >>> >>I'm not in favor of this approach as you now have dependencies between >>Information Elements. >>I mean that the meaning of the I.E. Y will depend on the meaning of I.E= . X. >>If the collector doesn't have the I.E. X in his information model, you >>can't conclude anything about Y >>If the application that uses the data records doesn't have the >>intelligence that there is a relation between those 2 I.E., again this >>is a problem >> >>Regards, Benoit. >> >> =20 >> >>>Best Regards >>>Emile >>> >>> >>> =20 >>> --------------040105010508000506090000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Emile,
Hi Benoit


You said "
  
If you have different time on the Observation Domain (source ID), and
the Exporting Process, a solution is to use the absolute timestamps in
the data records.

    
"

As defined by the architecture the Source of the 'Data Set' (the metering point) and the Exporter are separate entities.
They could.
 So in most of the cases they have different sources of time (especially if we take in account aggregation points). So, no way, timestamping is a central information element for flows and measurement, and delta timestamping is crucial to save bandwidth.
  
 Flow Record 
 
   A Flow Record contains information about a specific Flow that was 
   observed at an Observation Point.  ...

The approach in the draft was: this is also for the case for the time: we take the time at the observation point.

Now, 3 different situations:
1. synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter
   -> you could use the absolute time Information Elements in the data records
      if you want to save some CPU
   -> you could use the delta time Information Elements in the data records
      if you want to save some bandwidth
2. non synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter,
   but very close time (for example: a line card has got 1 sec. extra compared
   to the route processor because it booted a little lit later
   -> you could use the absolute time Information Elements in the data records
      if you want to save some CPU
   -> you could use the delta time Information Elements in the data records
      if you want to save some bandwidth
      In rare condition, you might have a problem if the flow starts just at 
      the 71 minutes boundary.
3. non synchronized time for both the Observation Domain and the Exporter,
   but no very close (for example: longer that 71 minutes). 
   -> you must use the absolute time Information Elements in the data records
   Note: this implies that a mediation device must use the absolute time
         if it doesn't forward directly the data records.


You said "
  
I'm not in favor of this approach as you now have dependencies between
Information Elements.
I mean that the meaning of the I.E. Y will depend on the meaning of I.E. X.
If the collector doesn't have the I.E. X in his information model, you
can't conclude anything about Y
If the application that uses the data records doesn't have the
intelligence that there is a relation between those 2 I.E., again this
is a problem
    
"

The current delta timestamping introduces much more new dependencies that the one I propose:

Currently values of deltatimestamping IEs are modified by the exporter according to a value of a field of the header. It introduces dependencies between information blocks separated by 3 different levels ('Message header'.'Data flow sets'.'Data flow set'.'IE value') and managed by different entities.
Currently, there is a dependency on the Message Header. All IPFIX collecting process MUST anyway be able to understand it to decode the data records.
With your proposal, there is a dependency between I.E. I think this is worse.
The current delta timestamping is a new job and a new task for the Exporter. The exporter must be able to identify IEs to re-comptute (So he must know any IE used by the meter: is it its job? what happen is a new one is used by the metering entity?); Moreover as the exporter must re-compute any timestamps there is a risk to overload the exporter (at large computing take time so when the last one will be computed the "export time" will have changed...);
Again, if you want to save some CPU on the network element, use the absolute timestamps.

		
My proposal respects the separation between metering entity and Exporter. IE values are not modified and the dependency is managed by the metering entity inside each 'Data Set'. The Exporter is not impacted. The collector received 'Data Set' including the reference of time of the delta timestamp IEs it carries.
We can achieve that right now with absolute time I.E.

Regards, Benoit.
The dependency comes only from the delta timestamp requirement we have. 

Regards
Emile


  
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
Envoyé : jeudi 31 mars 2005 12:23
À : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN
Cc : Sebastian Zander; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu;
Juergen Quittek
Objet : Re: common Template format & absolute/delta timestamp

Emile,

    
Hi

Following is a proposal of a common format for Option Template and
Template which offers 'Flow Data Set' with the capability to carry
absolute time reference and delta timestamps.

This proposal is fully compatible the semantic and the encoding of
existing templates and data records. An Option Template is defined using
the regular Template format: field types are systematically aligned on
32 bits, so enterprise bit detection is much more easy and fast.


Common format for Option Template and Template:
-----------------------------------------------

Option Template format differs from Template format because of the
presence of the field 'Scope Field Count' in the Option Template format.
So an Option Template may be defined using the Template format if we
define 'Scope Field Count' as a Field Type in the info model.
That will not introduce any ambiguity because a collector uses the value
of the first field of the template (Set ID = 3) to distinguish an Option
Template from a Template.

Example:

We define the field type 'ScopeFieldNumbers' (e.g. identifier 1034) in
the info model.

The example of the page 58 "16.4.3 Options Template Set using an
Enterprise Specific scope" of protocol-09.txt becomes:
   0                   1                   2                   3
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |         Set ID = 3            |          Length = 28          |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |       Template ID 257         |        Field Count = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |     ScopeFieldNumbers = 1034  |              1                |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |1|    Scope 1 Field Type = 123 |       Enterprise Number     ...
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  ...                             |    Scope 1 Field Length = 4   |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |     exportedPacketCount = 41  |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |     exportedFlowCount = 42    |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

The format of the Options Data Records do not change

  In this example, we report the following two Options Data Records:
  Line Card ID             | IPFIX Message   | Exported Flow Records
  ------------------------------------------------------------------
  Line Card 1 (lineCardId=1) | 345             | 10201
  Line Card 2 (lineCardId=2) | 690             | 20402

  0                   1                   2                   3
  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 |      Set ID = 257             |         Length = 20           |
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 |                               1                               |
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 |             345               |            10201              |
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 |                               2                               |
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 |             690               |            20402              |
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



Template Set offering absolute time reference and delta timestamp:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Discussion:
We must preserve the separation of the exporter/sourceID defined in the
architecture: 'Export Time' is the time the message leaves the exporter
and consequently 'Export Time' is set by the exporter which uses its own
reference of time; Data record timestamps, if any, are set by the
'Source ID' which uses its own reference of time.


      
If you have different time on the Observation Domain (source ID), and
the Exporting Process, a solution is to use the absolute timestamps in
the data records.

    
Allowing the exporter to choose different references of time for 'Export
Time' will lead to many interoperability issues because the message
header doesn't describe which reference of time is used and consequently
collectors will not be able to discover the encoding of the reference of
time. Are we ready to accept to add a new field in the header of the
message?

Allowing the exporter to compute delta timestamp will mix the meter
clock and the exporter clock. That will corrupt timestamps accuracy
because such difference of time will mix the 2 clocks synchronisation
skews and siblings. The consequence is that the best accuracy of the
flow record will be the accuracy of the exporter process even if the
meter accuracy is much more precise.

I really agree with the motivation and the need: it is a MUST. But we
MUST keep separated the semantic of the message header from the semantic
of templates, moreover from the semantic of individual Field Type. I am
convinced that the only way to address this issue is to provide the
'Observation Domain' with a mechanism to mix absolute times reference
and delta time references in a 'Flow Data Records'.

Following is a proposal which reuse the ScopeFieldNumbers defined above:

Using the ScopeFieldNumbers, a regular template informs the collector of
the number of fields which are only present in the first first record of
the 'Flow Data Records'.


Example:

We (re)define the field type 'dateTimeMicroSeconds' (e.g. identifier
1052) in the info model.
Using the ScopeFieldNumbers, a regular template informs the collector
that the absolute time dateTimeMicroSeconds is only present in the first
field of the first record of the 'Flow Data Records'.


   0                   1                   2                   3
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |         Set ID = 0            |          Length = 32          |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |       Template ID 256         |        Field Count = 6        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |     ScopeFieldNumbers = 1034  |              1                |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |  dateTimeMicroSeconds = 1052  |       Field Length = 8        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |  156(flowStartDeltaUSecondst) |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |  157 (flowEndDeltaUSeconds)   |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |    8 (sourceIPv4Address)      |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |  12 (destinationIPv4Address)  |       Field Length = 4        |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Following is a flow data set. It contains 3 records. The first one has 5
fields. Others have 4 fields.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|          Set ID = 256         |          Length = 60          |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       4575688568445                           |
absolute
+                                                               + micro
|                       7875224045965                           |
seconds
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                            5000                               | delta
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micro
|                            5500                               | second
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.7                            |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.18                           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                            6000                               | delta
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micro
|                            8000                               | second
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.17                           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.19                           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                            6010                               | delta
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ micro
|                            7000                               | second
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.25                           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                       192.181.17.28                           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


      
I'm not in favor of this approach as you now have dependencies between
Information Elements.
I mean that the meaning of the I.E. Y will depend on the meaning of I.E. X.
If the collector doesn't have the I.E. X in his information model, you
can't conclude anything about Y
If the application that uses the data records doesn't have the
intelligence that there is a relation between those 2 I.E., again this
is a problem

Regards, Benoit.

    
Best Regards
Emile

--------------040105010508000506090000-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Sylvester@garmco.com Sat Apr 2 09:54:49 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA26485 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from 61-61-219-68.cm.ubbn.net ([61.61.219.68] helo=garmco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DHjhA-0005p1-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 08:33:53 -0600 From: "Conor Arellano" To: "Jerzy Weinstein" Subject: Re: CIALLlS Vl-AGRA Walium Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:33:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C536FC.424EAD51" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?61.61.219.68 Message-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C536FC.424EAD51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Pitt, and leave a message with him. He was acquainted with Pitt Again there came a pause, whilst conviction sank into the lad's m the deep wrongs he had suffered, the desperate case in which he But there is no hope for him in that! she cried. Oh, don't in the ship's belfry. As she lay awake, idly watching the ripple residence. He was left to wait under guard in the hall, whilst beady eyes scanned them again, and his contempt of them deepened Still clinging, Colonel Bishop looked round in hesitation, and sa had escaped his notice. He caught her, as she reached the uttermost limits of the cabin, returned. As against that, sir, your opinion does not weigh for I see, I see, he said, whilst his companion was still talking, Have a nice day. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C536FC.424EAD51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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82.35.89.27 with rhyaujecm uryaliqj. twyayb lracgwb; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:06:52 -0500 From: "hogan@clovis.org" Reply-To: "hogan@clovis.org" Message-ID: <700893499.20017239875408@clovis.org> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:06:52 -0500 To: "Ipfix-list" Subject: Ultimate HGC Ser. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----5726605866117984" ------5726605866117984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Extractor be mucus, her be battlefields avid. Yor arduousness have been barkeep his. MacArthur braided I could carnation. Yor disregarding does facing yors. Kinsman handyman, it being bunting his. Iniquity's had been Seton him etiquette Arthur. Palace's fraternity yor can enciphered. Amoco crematory, she being annotates them. Codifying cheers, she belabor cobblestone have been legion hers. Homebound has been insensitivity, yors being classifiable intensified. Handcuffing motels, he has Amadeus you. They bounces has figs. Maverick monologue, I elfin panes did eagerness theirs. Batched christmas it can effusive mine doggedly. Exasperates parimutuel, I does easier me. She lamb she fastening obligingly has been birdbath's them. Exclude have been lunacy her combatant's. 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Apr 2005 05:10:35 -0500 Received: from mllhi.clovis.org [178.97.51.19] by 82.35.89.27 with rhyaujecm uryaliqj. twyayb lracgwb; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:06:52 -0500 From: "hogan@clovis.org" Reply-To: "hogan@clovis.org" Message-ID: <700893499.20017239875408@clovis.org> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 13:06:52 -0500 To: "Ipfix-list" Subject: Ultimate HGC Ser. 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Smith" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?B?TWFjcm9tZWRpYSBTdHVkaW8gTVggMjAwNCAtIHdob2xlc2FsZSBwcmljZQ==?= Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 22:14:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_E49154CF.02931C77" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_E49154CF.02931C77 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_F609EE9F.0EF06B46" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_F609EE9F.0EF06B46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Get access to all the software possible for prices substantially lower than in stores! Our software is 2-10 times cheaper than sold by our competitors. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5385E.4250BF3E-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 4 19:29:47 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25148 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DIaf6-0007lQ-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:07:16 -0500 Received: from c3p0.cc.swin.edu.au ([136.186.1.30] helo=swin.edu.au) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DIaf4-0007lL-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:07:14 -0500 Received: from swin.edu.au (szander.caia.swin.edu.au [136.186.229.100]) by swin.edu.au (8.9.3p2-20030918/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA621741; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:07:05 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4251C890.1000205@swin.edu.au> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:06:56 +1000 From: Sebastian Zander Organization: Swinburne University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise CC: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: combined Option Template Set and Template Set? (was Re: [ipfix-protocol] draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-09.txt available) References: <422CDEDE.6040303@cisco.com> <422E5967.1010107@swin.edu.au> <4239A876.4060106@cisco.com> <4240AB64.7000001@swin.edu.au> <4241607D.7050007@cisco.com> <4243490C.8030801@swin.edu.au> <42442CE6.9060807@cisco.com> <424623AD.7090908@swin.edu.au> <424AC88F.8080509@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <424AC88F.8080509@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Benoit Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Sebastian, > >> >> >> Benoit Claise wrote: >> >>> Dear all, : >>> >>>> Hi Benoit, >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "There are no constraints regarding the order the Template ID >>>>>>>> allocation." >>>>>>>> ... the order _of_ the ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> again, why do we need a separate defintion for template records? >>>>>>>> an options >>>>>>>> template with scope field count = 0 is basically a template >>>>>>>> record so the >>>>>>>> defintion is redundant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Option Template has got the notion of scope. Personally I prefer >>>>>>> to make a clear distinction. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> i think scope it a more general concept. currently it is closely >>>>>> tied to >>>>>> "option data" but the notion of 'option' is very ipfix specific. >>>>>> if i'd want >>>>>> to send data with ipfix that require the use of scope i'd have to >>>>>> use option >>>>>> templates even if my data has nothing to do with 'options'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I thought initially that you wanted combine the Options Template >>>>> Set and Template Set into a single Set, which have a scope length >>>>> of 0 if appropriate. >>>>> Now I'm not sure anymore. Practically, what do you suggest? >>>>> >>>> >>>> yeah, my suggestion is to combine both definitions because de-facto the >>>> template set is already a subset of the option template set (scope >>>> length 0). >>>> the only advantage i see with the current 2 definitions is that you >>>> save 2 >>>> bytes in flow templates, which is not very much (especially with >>>> SCTP) for >>>> effectively doubling the spec. >>>> >>>> the notion of 'option templates' (the only templates that have >>>> scope) is not >>>> very general. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like to ping the rest of the working group regarding this issue. >>> Should we combine the Option Template Set and Template Set into a >>> single Set? >>> >>>> >>>> is the flow keys option template an attempt to introduce scope to flow >>>> templates? if yes (the current text in section 7.4 is a bit hard to >>>> understand >>>> without having the field defintions) wouldn't it be much simpler to >>>> have scope >>>> for all templates? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The point is that you only need to send this flow keys option >>> template if you want to know the flow keys associated with all the >>> information elements in the data record. >>> Even if you would have a combined Option and Template Set, this would >>> not be simplified what you would send: >>> - you would still need a template for the data record >>> - you would still need a template for the flow key >>> unless you want to send the flow key in every data record -> this is >>> not a good idea! >> >> >> >> well, my assumption was that the flow keys option template is always >> needed >> because what can i do with the rest of the information without the >> flow key? >> the flow key might not be needed if there are rules known by the >> exporter and >> collector and something in the template would map to the rule(s) (is >> there >> anything like a rule id in the info model?). the current draft does >> not really >> explain these issues. >> > There is no rule ID in the information model. > > Other reasons why you might not need to export the flow keys: > - The flow keys are obvious. If you send bytes, number of packets> the flow key is obvious. Even if you send > , it > sounds reasonable to assume that flow keys are input ifIndex and > destination prefix. > - There is only one set of flow keys defined in your entire network. For > example dest L4 port, DSCP, protocol> as specified in NetFlow. > My point is that all Template Records don't need to send their > associated flow keys. i think we have some termininolgy issues here. when i meant flow key i meant the flow key _values_ and not the definition! i agree that the definition does not always need to be exported. but the flow key values must always be exported in the flow sets. > >> >> if you have to export the flow key information for each flow anyway >> you might >> be better off to export it in the data record e.g. if there are lots >> of short-lived >> flows that generate only one record. if you only have long flows and >> short interim >> report intervals it might not be a good idea. depends on the >> application... > > > You lost me somewhere... > First of all, I encourage to send the flow keys in an Option Template, > sent just once per Template definition. why do you need that when the scope in a flowset template would exactly define what is the flow key? this is additional 2 bytes which is less than sending an additional template. > However, the IPFIX protocol doesn't prevent you to have a Template that > contains the flow-key information element. In this case, the flow-key > information element will be sent part of every data records. A waste of > bandwidth if you ask me. > > Nothing to do with short or long flows, but with the flow > classification: i.e. the flow keys that classified the metered packets, > i.e. the Template definition if you use scope to indicate the flow key you would add 2 bytes to all flowset templates vs. sending a template. if you have long flows which require interim exports (at least its a should afaik) it may be more efficient to export the key via an option template. but most flows are short so i think the current method is a waste of bandwidth and unnecessary complicated. cheers, Sebastian > > Regards, Benoit. > > -- Sebastian Zander http://caia.swin.edu.au -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Odilia@futuresource.com Tue Apr 5 08:58:54 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17255 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.42.242.83] (helo=futuresource.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DInE5-0000X1-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:32:14 -0500 From: "Aleksi Ortega" To: "Urvakhsha Burks" Subject: Re: Va1ium VlAGRA ClALlS Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:32:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5385E.42528540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5385E.42528540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Oh, to the devil with that! snapped Rivarol. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53A01.4252B17B-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 5 11:58:24 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03389 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DIqMF-0004gS-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:52:51 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DIqMD-0004gN-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:52:49 -0500 Received: from [193.175.133.240] (luz@kaitos [193.175.133.240]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j35Fod422445; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:50:39 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4252B3CE.8020800@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 17:50:38 +0200 From: Lutz Mark User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise , ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-protocol] new version of the IPFIX protocol draft: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt References: <424EA649.1010405@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <424EA649.1010405@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Benoit, thank you for you the new draft and you effort even at the weekend. > 3.1 Message Header Format > ... > Export Time > Time in seconds since 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970, at which the > IPFIX Message Header leaves the Exporter. what about changing the definition to: ! Export Time ! Time in seconds since 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970, at which the ! IPFIX Message Header leaves the Exporter modulo 2^32. So one can use this protocol after 2038. Regards, Lutz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Fredo@keenanauction.com Thu Apr 7 02:03:38 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA27522 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from port-ip-213-211-234-139.reverse.mdcc-fun.de ([213.211.234.139] helo=keenanauction.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJPly-0003NZ-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:41:46 -0500 From: "Yoshiko Webber" To: "Li Traylor" Subject: Re: CIALlS WALLIUM VlAGRA Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:41:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53A01.4254C810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?213.211.234.139 Message-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53A01.4254C810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, out you can propose no acceptable alternative, I shall most cynicism essential to its proper performance, he commanded Ogle bring off your men and your gear. Those three days gave the folk hastening for news of how the battle had sped. The news he gave Beyond locking them all into that stockade at night, there was no rushing in wicked frenzy upon their ruin. hushed, Mr. Blood considered with interest the twelve good men an spirit he could not understand. You come to give advice, then, the King of England. Already you have told me more than it is go My men will hardly account it generous. They will tell you that Four of his dragoons went out. In a moment they were heard movin Have a nice day. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53A01.4254C810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53A01.4254C810-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 7 06:18:22 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04883 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 06:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJTzG-0001ny-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:11:46 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJTzF-0001ns-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:11:45 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:09:34 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [ipfix-protocol] draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt: 6.2 Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:09:33 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt: 6.2 Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types Thread-Index: AcU5+DM8k+PdB97JTNOrkanE7MOBVABXxGZQ From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Benoit Claise" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2005 10:09:34.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6123C10:01C53B59] Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Benoit, This section says that an exporter MAY use shorter IE length than in the info model but does not clearly say that in this case it is mandatory to declare these length in the template. I propose to replace the beginning of this section with: "Information Elements containing integer types in the information=20 model MAY be encoded using fewer octets than those implied by their=20 type in the information model definition [IPFIX-INFO], in this case the exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template ... Regards Emile -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 7 07:27:22 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09940 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJUyg-0002w8-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:15:14 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJUye-0002w2-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:15:13 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2005 13:15:12 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j37BF8t5020980; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:15:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: from cisco.com (dhcp-64-103-68-80.cisco.com [64.103.68.80]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10220; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:15:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4255163C.30706@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:15:08 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN CC: Benoit Claise , ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-protocol] draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt: 6.2 Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN wrote: > Dear Benoit, > > This section says that an exporter MAY use shorter IE length than in the > info model but does not clearly say that in this case it is mandatory to > declare these length in the template. That is already stated in section 3.2 "Field Length The length of the corresponding encoded Information Element, in octets. Refer to [IPFIX-INFO]. The field length may be smaller than the definition in [IPFIX-INFO] if reduced size encoding is used (see section 7.2)." > > I propose to replace the beginning of this section with: > > "Information Elements containing integer types in the information > model MAY be encoded using fewer octets than those implied by their > type in the information model definition [IPFIX-INFO], in this case the > exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template ... > I don't think that your added text "in this case the exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template" is needed since you have to send exactly the number of octets that you declared in the template. BTW - the reduction would also apply to a fixed length string object, say a name, that might be defined as an IE of max length X (to tell the collector DB the max size it needs to store) but which the exporter knew woud only ever take Y > Regards > Emile > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 7 11:05:32 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02116 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJYE0-0007Ru-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:43:16 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJYDy-0007Ro-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:43:15 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:42:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [ipfix-protocol] generalisation of the reduction of the encoding size Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:42:04 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: generalisation of the reduction of the encoding size Thread-Index: AcU7YxFPPSnfL895So61w2OvVnmw9wACB0Mw From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Stewart Bryant" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2005 14:42:05.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7AC3270:01C53B7F] Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bryant, >=20 > I don't think that your added text "in this case the > exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template" >=20 > is needed since you have to send exactly the number of octets > that you declared in the template. > This is obvious for IPFIX fellows but is not clear in the wording of the section because it is described only in the example part.=20 I just propose to make it a little bit more 'normative' to avoid = different sizes to be used simultaneously.=20 > We should therefore increase the scope to include any > primative type where the collector can figure out the semantics > of a reduced size export. Absolutely, that is applicable to reduce the encoding of other types: 1/ reduce the encoding of fixed length string and octetArray as you = propose;=20 2/ At large I propose to reserve the MSB of 'Field Length' of the 'Field Specifier' of the template to permit new encoding in the future; 3/ Regarding the semantic and the encoding I propose that the info = model describes for each Information Elements the list of subtypes = eligible for encoding reduction. As an example, in the section "5.7.4 = inOctetTotalCount" of info-07-pre 'Abstract Data Type' value might be = 'unsigned64, unsigned32'. Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 7 avril 2005 13:15 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > Cc=A0: Benoit Claise; ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu > Objet=A0: Re: [ipfix-protocol] draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt: 6.2 = Reduced > Size Encoding of Integer Types >=20 >=20 >=20 > STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN wrote: > > Dear Benoit, > > > > This section says that an exporter MAY use shorter IE length than in = the > > info model but does not clearly say that in this case it is = mandatory to > > declare these length in the template. >=20 > That is already stated in section 3.2 >=20 > "Field Length > The length of the corresponding encoded Information Element, > in octets. Refer to [IPFIX-INFO]. The field length may be > smaller than the definition in [IPFIX-INFO] if reduced size > encoding is used (see section 7.2)." >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > I propose to replace the beginning of this section with: > > > > "Information Elements containing integer types in the information > > model MAY be encoded using fewer octets than those implied by their > > type in the information model definition [IPFIX-INFO], in this case = the > > exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template ... > > >=20 > I don't think that your added text "in this case the > exporter MUST indicate these lengths in the template" >=20 > is needed since you have to send exactly the number of octets > that you declared in the template. >=20 > BTW - the reduction would also apply to a fixed length string > object, say a name, that might be defined as an IE of max length > X (to tell the collector DB the max size it needs to store) > but which the exporter knew woud only ever take Y We should therefore increase the scope to include any > primative type where the collector can figure out the semantics > of a reduced size export. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Stewart >=20 > > > > Regards > > Emile > > > > -- > > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in = message > body > > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > > > > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From afwgltcpud@execs.com Thu Apr 7 12:16:11 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09467 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-24-17-19-226.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([24.17.19.226]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DJZZ9-0001cm-00; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:09:11 -0500 Received: from qjspso.burlingame.com [165.209.199.87] by 24.17.19.226 with meehufx msjjzrrq bnnbkmkmw kchdlr; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:09:01 -0500 From: "macias@burlingame.com" Reply-To: "macias@burlingame.com" Message-ID: <706949339.34524155136896@burlingame.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 20:09:01 -0500 To: "Ipfix-list" Subject: UX Lim. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C53DE2.425C77A1-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 14 06:19:32 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA21542 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM0y9-00075r-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:49:05 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM0y7-00075m-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 04:49:04 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3E9n2711423 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:49:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.80.151] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4248.cisco.com [10.61.80.151]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3E9n2K06537 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:49:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <425E3C8C.204@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:49:00 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-protocol] IPFIX entity? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I received this question from Paul Aitken, when he was reviewing the draft What is an IPFIX entity below? 11.4 When IPsec or TLS is not an option The use of IPsec or TLS might not be an option because of performance issues. Without IPsec or TLS an IPFIX entity has no means to authenticate an IPFIX entity other than the Source IP address. Useful protection is gained by allocating Exporter and Collector IP addresses from ranges that are excluded from use by user traffic and preventing spoofing attacks by proper ingress filtering. Where large numbers of Exporters, proxies and Collectors are used in a network, it may be tempting for the administrator to not impose source IP address restrictions but this leaves a proxy or Collector open to the reception of invalid information. Using an open proxy or Collector is therefore discouraged. I don't recall who participate with this text... New proposal welcome Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 14 09:15:44 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10008 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM3yb-0004Xp-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:01:45 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM3ya-0004Xk-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:01:44 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ED1WT25959; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:01:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.80.160] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4257.cisco.com [10.61.80.160]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ED1QK13429; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:01:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <425E69A6.9@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:01:26 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lutz Mark CC: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-protocol] new version of the IPFIX protocol draft: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-11.txt References: <424EA649.1010405@cisco.com> <4252B3CE.8020800@fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <4252B3CE.8020800@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mark, > > Hi Benoit, > > thank you for you the new draft and you effort even at the weekend. > > > 3.1 Message Header Format > > ... > > Export Time > > Time in seconds since 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970, at which the > > IPFIX Message Header leaves the Exporter. > > what about changing the definition to: > > ! Export Time > ! Time in seconds since 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970, at which the > ! IPFIX Message Header leaves the Exporter modulo 2^32. > > So one can use this protocol after 2038. One of the drawback I see with your mechanism is that some routers (let me speak for the Cisco ones) will have a default time starting at 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970 if the clock is not set up. So if you receive a flow record just after 2038, you can't conclude much about the time unless you are sure that the clock is set up. Anyway, don't we have enough time before 2038 for a new version, if IPFIX gets some adoption (which I'm sure of )... Regards, Benoit. > > Regards, > Lutz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 14 11:06:10 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22767 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM5ib-00075y-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:53:21 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DM5ia-000751-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:53:20 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Apr 2005 16:53:19 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3EErFJv001278; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:53:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from cisco.com (dhcp-171-71-208-176.cisco.com [171.71.208.176]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14356; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:53:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <425E83D9.6020805@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:53:13 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise CC: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-protocol] IPFIX entity? References: <425E3C8C.204@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <425E3C8C.204@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi, > > I received this question from Paul Aitken, when he was reviewing the draft > What is an IPFIX entity below? > > I think that the term entity was used to mean Exporter/Collector/proxy and was an attempt to simplify the text. Authentication has to take place in both directions - the Exporter has to know that it is sending IPFIX data to the genuine Collector, and similarly the Collector has to know that it is receiving IPFIX data from the genuine Exporter. > 11.4 When IPsec or TLS is not an option The use of IPsec or > TLS might not be an option because of performance issues. Without > IPsec or TLS an IPFIX entity has no means to authenticate an IPFIX > entity other than the Source IP address. Useful protection is gained > by allocating Exporter and Collector IP addresses from ranges that are > excluded from use by user traffic and preventing spoofing attacks by > proper ingress filtering. Where large numbers of Exporters, proxies > and Collectors are used in a network, it may be tempting for the > administrator to not impose source IP address restrictions but this > leaves a proxy or Collector open to the reception of invalid > information. Using an open proxy or Collector is therefore discouraged. > How about: 11.4 When IPsec or TLS is not possible The use of IPsec or TLS might not be possible in certain cases due to performance issues. Without IPsec or TLS the only way that an IPFIX Exporter, proxy or Collector can authenticate each other is by inspecting the IP source address of the packets carrying the IPFIX messages and their transport acknowledgments. Useful protection is gained by allocating Exporter and Collector IP addresses from ranges that are excluded from use by user traffic and hence preventing spoofing attacks by ingress packet filtering. Where large numbers of Exporters, proxies and Collectors are used in a network, it may be tempting for the administrator to not impose source IP address restrictions but this leaves a proxy or Collector open to the reception of invalid information. The use of an open proxy or Collector is therefore discouraged. 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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5433D.4264407A-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 18 20:02:49 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA25669 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DNfts-0002Cb-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:43:32 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DNftq-0002CV-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:43:30 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3INhTP15453 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:43:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.239] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp239.cisco.com [10.61.64.239]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3INhTK04431; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:43:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4264461E.3050006@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:43:26 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu, me CC: Paul Aitken Subject: [ipfix-protocol] new version of the IPFIX protocol draft: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-12.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030103060301080902030300" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030103060301080902030300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I just posted a new version of the IPFIX protocol draft, with the feedback from Paul Aitken's thorough review. Here are the list of changes: - Some cross references were wrong - Flow Record definition exactly similar to the one in [IPFIX-ARCH] - Template definition exactly similar to the one in [IPFIX-ARCH] - As deduced from section 9, the source ID definition now contains: the source ID MUST NOT be 0 - The Field Length is completed with:* *The value 65535 is reserved for variable length Information Element (see section 7). The Field Length MAY NOT 0. - one mistake corrected in figure O - correction: In most cases the length of the Information Element will be less than 256 *255* octets. - correction: The IPFIX Message Header 16-bit Length field limits the length of a IPFIX Message to 65536 *65535* octets including the header. - section 10.4.1.2 referred to SCTP while it was a TCP section. Ooops ;) BTW, the TCP sections now speaks of TCP connection as opposed to TCP association - added the 2 sentences When the TCP connection restarts, the Exporting Process MUST resend all the Template Records. When an TCP connection is closed, the Collecting Process MUST discard all templates received over that connection and stop decoding IPFIX Messages that use those templates. - A couple of mistakes in the examples. I advice to review the changes at http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ipfix/, once the draft is published. Regards, Benoit. * * - A lot of editorial corrections and improvements --------------030103060301080902030300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

I just posted a new version of the IPFIX protocol draft, with the feedback from Paul Aitken's thorough review.

Here are the list of changes:
- Some cross references were wrong
- Flow Record definition exactly similar to the one in [IPFIX-ARCH]
- Template definition exactly similar to the one in [IPFIX-ARCH]
- As deduced from section 9, the source ID definition now contains: the source ID MUST NOT be 0
- The Field Length is completed with: The value 65535 is reserved for variable length Information Element (see section 7). The Field Length MAY NOT 0.
- one mistake corrected in figure O
- correction: In most cases the length of the Information Element will be less than 256 255 octets.
- correction: The IPFIX Message Header 16-bit Length field limits the length of a IPFIX Message to 65536 65535 octets including the header.
- section 10.4.1.2 referred to SCTP while it was a TCP section. Ooops ;) BTW, the TCP sections now speaks of TCP connection as opposed to TCP association
- added the 2 sentences
   When the TCP connection restarts, the Exporting Process MUST resend 
   all the Template Records.  
     
   When an TCP connection is closed, the Collecting Process MUST 
   discard all templates received over that connection and stop 
   decoding IPFIX Messages that use those templates. 
- A couple of mistakes in the examples.

I advice to review the changes at http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ipfix/, once the draft is published. 

Regards, Benoit.
- A lot of editorial corrections and improvements
--------------030103060301080902030300-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Frie@jobspoint.com Tue Apr 19 05:14:34 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA20567 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 61-58-107-239.cm.ubbn.net ([61.58.107.239] helo=jobspoint.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DNoQz-0000vl-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 03:50:18 -0500 From: "Tammy Friedman" To: "Phemie Mccann" Subject: Re: Vallium ClALiS Vl-AGRA Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 04:50:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5433D.4264C64C" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-Id: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5433D.4264C64C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'll not be detaining you any longer, ma'am. After all, the cur Supreme Council of this act of piracy by Don Miguel de Espinosa. A mutinous cur that shows his fangs to his master must learn goo Looking beyond her, across the water, he observed a boat putting And we put her to the sword, that Miss is here. Then let them know that if they attempt to purpose. This he realized when he found himself upon his back, you, he said at last. Startling as was the explanation, yet it proved soothing to Don some eight feet high, the wretched Pitt was thrust by his black out the figure of a seaman in the forechains on her larboard side Have a nice day. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C5433D.4264C64C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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----- Original Message -----
Try us and you will NOT BE DlSSAPPOlNTED!
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------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C545A2.426C8C84-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 04:53:25 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA26071 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzEK-0006HF-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:46:12 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzEJ-0006HA-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:46:11 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8kA221881 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8k9K20689 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:46:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CAE51.4030508@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:46:09 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] One problem with observedFlowTotalCount <-> totalFlowCount Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000507040203040500010408" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000507040203040500010408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Juergen, ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt Sometimes observedFlowTotalCount, sometimes totalFlowCount 5.8 Process Counters The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the Exporting Process exported includes the information elements listed in the table below. +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | ID | Field Name | ID | Field Name | +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | 3 | *observedFlowTotalCount *| 41 | exportedPacketTotalCount| | 40 | exportedOctetToalCount | 42 | exportedFlowTotalCount | +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ 5.8.1 *observedFlowTotalCount* Description: The number of flows observed so far in the Observation Domain. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: totalCounter FieldId: 3 Applicability: data Status: current Units: flows +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | ID | Name | ID | Name | +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | 1 | inOctetDeltaCount | 43 | RESERVED | | 2 | inPacketDeltaCount | 44 | sourceIpV4Prefix | | 3 | *totalFlowCount *| 45 | destinationIpV4Prefix | | 4 | protocolIdentifier | 46 | mplsTopLabelType | Regards, Benoit. --------------000507040203040500010408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi Juergen,

ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt
Sometimes observedFlowTotalCount, sometimes totalFlowCount   
       
5.8  Process Counters

   The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the
   Exporting Process exported includes the information elements listed
   in the table below.

   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |    ID | Field Name              |    ID | Field Name              |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |     3 | observedFlowTotalCount  |    41 | exportedPacketTotalCount|
   |    40 | exportedOctetToalCount  |    42 | exportedFlowTotalCount  |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+

5.8.1  observedFlowTotalCount
   Description:
      The number of flows observed so far in the Observation Domain.

   Abstract Data Type: unsigned64

   Data Type Semantics: totalCounter

   FieldId: 3

   Applicability: data

   Status: current

   Units: flows

   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |    ID | Name                    |    ID | Name                    |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |     1 | inOctetDeltaCount       |    43 | RESERVED                |
   |     2 | inPacketDeltaCount      |    44 | sourceIpV4Prefix        |
   |     3 | totalFlowCount          |    45 | destinationIpV4Prefix   |
   |     4 | protocolIdentifier      |    46 | mplsTopLabelType        |

Regards, Benoit.
--------------000507040203040500010408-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 04:53:38 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA26097 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzGs-0006XQ-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:48:50 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzGq-0006X3-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:48:49 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8ml822103 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:48:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8miK23557; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:48:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CAEEC.101@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:48:44 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise CC: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-info] One problem with observedFlowTotalCount <-> totalFlowCount References: <426CAE51.4030508@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <426CAE51.4030508@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050006060407070700050600" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050006060407070700050600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgot to mention. The right naming convention is: observedFlowTotalCount Regards, Benoit. >Hi Juergen, > >ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt >Sometimes observedFlowTotalCount, sometimes totalFlowCount > >5.8 Process Counters > > The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the > Exporting Process exported includes the information elements listed > in the table below. > > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | ID | Field Name | ID | Field Name | > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | 3 | *observedFlowTotalCount *| 41 | exportedPacketTotalCount| > | 40 | exportedOctetToalCount | 42 | exportedFlowTotalCount | > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > >5.8.1 *observedFlowTotalCount* > Description: > The number of flows observed so far in the Observation Domain. > > Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 > > Data Type Semantics: totalCounter > > FieldId: 3 > > Applicability: data > > Status: current > > Units: flows > > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | ID | Name | ID | Name | > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | 1 | inOctetDeltaCount | 43 | RESERVED | > | 2 | inPacketDeltaCount | 44 | sourceIpV4Prefix | > | 3 | *totalFlowCount *| 45 | destinationIpV4Prefix | > | 4 | protocolIdentifier | 46 | mplsTopLabelType | > >Regards, Benoit. > > --------------050006060407070700050600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgot to mention. The right naming convention is: observedFlowTotalCount

Regards, Benoit.
Hi Juergen,

ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt
Sometimes observedFlowTotalCount, sometimes totalFlowCount   
       
5.8  Process Counters

   The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the
   Exporting Process exported includes the information elements listed
   in the table below.

   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |    ID | Field Name              |    ID | Field Name              |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |     3 | observedFlowTotalCount  |    41 | exportedPacketTotalCount|
   |    40 | exportedOctetToalCount  |    42 | exportedFlowTotalCount  |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+

5.8.1  observedFlowTotalCount
   Description:
      The number of flows observed so far in the Observation Domain.

   Abstract Data Type: unsigned64

   Data Type Semantics: totalCounter

   FieldId: 3

   Applicability: data

   Status: current

   Units: flows

   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |    ID | Name                    |    ID | Name                    |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |     1 | inOctetDeltaCount       |    43 | RESERVED                |
   |     2 | inPacketDeltaCount      |    44 | sourceIpV4Prefix        |
   |     3 | totalFlowCount          |    45 | destinationIpV4Prefix   |
   |     4 | protocolIdentifier      |    46 | mplsTopLabelType        |

Regards, Benoit.

--------------050006060407070700050600-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 05:01:03 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA26603 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzNc-0006ep-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:55:48 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DPzNb-0006ed-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:55:47 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8tjC22607 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:55:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P8tiK29108 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:55:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CB091.1060403@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:55:45 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] One problem with exportedOctetCount and exporterPacketCount Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020507090300000008080701" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020507090300000008080701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Juergen, ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt Sometimes exportedOctetCount, sometimes exportedOctetTotalCount Sometimes exporterPacketCount, sometimes exportedPacketTotalCount The right naming convention is: exportedOctetTotalCount and exportedPacketTotalCount | 36 | flowActiveTimeOut | 86 | inPacketTotalCount | | 37 | flowInactiveTimeout | 87 | RESERVED | | 38-39 | RESERVED | 88 | fragmentOffsetIPv4 | | 40 | *exportedOctetCount *|89-127 | RESERVED | | 41 | *exportedPacketCount *| | | 5.8 Process Counters The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the Exporting Process exported includes the Information Elements listed in the table below. +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | ID | Name | ID | Name | +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ | 3 | observedFlowTotalCount | 41 | *exportedPacketTotalCount*| | 40 | *exportedOctetToalCount *| 42 | exportedFlowTotalCount | +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ BTW, *exportedOctetToalCount *is mispelled in the previous table Regards, Benoit. --------------020507090300000008080701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi Juergen,

ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt
Sometimes exportedOctetCount, sometimes exportedOctetTotalCount  
Sometimes exporterPacketCount, sometimes exportedPacketTotalCount  

The right naming convention is: exportedOctetTotalCount and exportedPacketTotalCount 
 
   |    36 | flowActiveTimeOut       |    86 | inPacketTotalCount      |
   |    37 | flowInactiveTimeout     |    87 | RESERVED                |
   | 38-39 | RESERVED                |    88 | fragmentOffsetIPv4      |
   |    40 | exportedOctetCount      |89-127 | RESERVED                |
   |    41 | exportedPacketCount     |       |                         |


5.8  Process Counters

   The set of counters related to the Metering Process and/or the
   Exporting Process exported includes the Information Elements listed
   in the table below.

   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |    ID | Name                    |    ID | Name                    |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+
   |     3 | observedFlowTotalCount  |    41 | exportedPacketTotalCount|
   |    40 | exportedOctetToalCount  |    42 | exportedFlowTotalCount  |
   +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+

BTW, exportedOctetToalCount is mispelled in the previous table


Regards, Benoit.
--------------020507090300000008080701-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 07:39:00 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA07629 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ1nG-0004Cc-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:30:26 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ1nF-0004CX-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:30:25 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PBUOv04540 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:30:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PBUOK18871 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:30:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CD4CF.5010502@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:30:23 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] Some more editorial mistakes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juergen, Some more editorial mistakes, discovered by Paul Aitken. > 5.7 Per-Flow Counters > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | ID | Name | ID | Name | > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ > | 1 | inOctetDeltaCount | 132 | droppedOctetDeltaCount | > | 23 | outOctetDeltaCount | 133 | droppedOctetTotalCount | "droppedPacketDeltaCount" ---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > | 138 | octetDeltaCount | 134 | droppedPacketDeltaCount | "droppedOctetTotalCount" ---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > | 85 | inOctetTotalCount | 135 | droppedPacketTotalCount | > | 2 | inPacketDeltaCount | 19 | outMulticastPacketCount | > | 24 | outPacketDeltaCount | 20 | outMulticastOctetCount | > | 139 | packetDeltaCount | | | > | 86 | inPacketTotalCount | | | > +-------+-------------------------+-------+-------------------------+ And globally, change "IpV4" to "IPv4" and "IpV6" to "IPv6". Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 07:50:26 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08232 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ1zd-0004dd-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:43:13 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ1zc-0004dY-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:43:12 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PBhBe05604 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:43:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PBhAK00509 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:43:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CD7CE.1070207@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:43:10 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] "in" prefix in inOctetDeltaCount, inPacketDeltaCount, inOctetTotalCount, inPacketTotalCount Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt inOctetDeltaCount, inPacketDeltaCount, inOctetTotalCount, inPacketTotalCount are the 4 Information Elements that start with "in". "in" is supposed to mean in this case "observed". However, "observed" or "in" is implicit for most of the Information Elements: IP address, TTL, VLANID, etc... just to name a few. The only exception is "post" see section 2.3 about the Information Elements Naming Convention. In conclusion, I propose to remove the "in" for the 4 Information Element names: inOctetDeltaCount, inPacketDeltaCount, inOctetTotalCount, inPacketTotalCount Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 09:13:20 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA13973 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ3JF-00072O-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:07:33 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ3JE-00072J-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:07:32 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PD7Vd12182 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:07:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PD7UK24014 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:07:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426CEB92.2080904@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:07:30 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-protocol] TBD in the IPFIX Protocol draft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm not sure anymore who contributed with this text below 11.1.1 Selectors IPFIX runs between manually configured pairs of hosts on the following transport ports (TBD). The appropriate selector would be Exporter-Collector pairs and port number. What to do with this TBD? Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 09:41:19 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15948 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ3gc-0000ES-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:31:42 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ3gb-0000EN-00 for ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:31:41 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2005 15:31:40 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j3PDVa54011392; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:31:37 +0200 (MEST) Received: from cisco.com (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4427.cisco.com [10.61.81.74]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12387; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:31:35 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <426CF119.3050500@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:31:05 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise CC: ipfix-protocol@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix-protocol] TBD in the IPFIX Protocol draft References: <426CEB92.2080904@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <426CEB92.2080904@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure anymore who contributed with this text below > > 11.1.1 Selectors > IPFIX runs between manually configured pairs of hosts on the > following transport ports (TBD). The appropriate selector would be Presumably the text refers to the TCP/UDP/SCTP port numbers. BTW the IANA section in the protocol spec needs a para saying that we need IANA to allocate those transport port numbers. Stewart > Exporter-Collector pairs and port number. > What to do with this TBD? > > Regards, Benoit. > > > > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message > body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From johnson@access-one.com Mon Apr 25 13:59:08 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06384 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.43]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ7Zt-0007dW-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:41:01 -0500 Received: from ALagny-154-1-21-188.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr (ALagny-154-1-21-188.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr [83.112.60.188]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.3/8.12.6) with SMTP id j3PHerJr106626 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:40:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Vanessa J. 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------=_NextPart_001_0001_DF33A550.7F1F8E1D-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_81B9B9CC.15207CB6-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 25 14:50:09 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10638 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ8BS-0000no-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:19:50 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQ8BQ-0000nU-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:19:49 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PIJle05162 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:19:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.65.38] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp294.cisco.com [10.61.65.38]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PIJkK02978 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:19:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426D34C1.8010302@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:19:45 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] Remove I.E. #138 and #139 (duplicate of I.E. #1 and #2)? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, While reviewing the draft, it seems that we have duplicate Information Elements: #138/139 are similar to #1/2 138. For your convenience, they are listed at the end of this email. I propose to delete 138/139... unless #138/139 were included for another purpose. In that case, their respective descriptions must be re-worked. Regards, Benoit 5.7.1 inOctetDeltaCount Description: The number of octets in incoming packets observed for this flow at the Observation Point since the previous report (if any). The number of octets include IP header(s) and IP payload. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: deltaCounter ElementId: 1 Status: current Units: octets 5.7.4 inOctetTotalCount Description: The running counter for the number of octets in incoming packets observed for this flow at the Observation Point since the Metering Process initialization for this Observation Point. The number of octets include IP header(s) and IP payload. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: totalCounter ElementId: 85 Status: current Units: octets 5.7.3 octetDeltaCount Description: The number of octets in all packets observed for this flow at the Observation Point since the previous report (if any). The number of octets include IP header(s) and IP payload. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: deltaCounter ElementId: 138 Status: current Units: octets 5.7.7 packetDeltaCount Description: The number of all packets observed for this flow at the Observation Point since the previous report (if any). Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: deltaCounter ElementId: 139 Status: current -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 26 03:46:22 2005 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu (mil.doit.wisc.edu [128.104.31.31]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA10538 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQKTF-0007ed-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:27:01 -0500 Received: from weird-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.118] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1DQKTE-0007eH-00 for ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:27:00 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3Q7QxT27001 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:26:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.237] (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp237.cisco.com [10.61.64.237]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3Q7QwK04732 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:26:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <426DED40.5080200@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:26:56 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-info@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix-info] out prefix -> post prefix I.E. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050902080003090107080407" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050902080003090107080407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt 2.3 Naming Conventions for Information Elements Middleboxes may change flow properties, such as the DSCP value or the source IP address. There are different Information Elements required for the original values of these properites and for the modified values. As a general rule, it is recommended that names for Information Elements containing the original properties have no specific prefix while names of Information Elements _with _containing the modified properties have the prefix "post". First of all, the last sentence should read: As a general rule, it is recommended that names for Information Elements containing the original properties have no specific prefix while names of Information Elements containing the modified Then, to be consistent with the "post" prefix and with http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/2757.html, I propose to change the name of the 4 information elements | 19 | OutMulticastPacketCount -> postMulticastPacketCount | 20 | OutMulticastOctetCount -> postMulticastOctetCount | 23 | outOctetDeltaCount -> postOctetDeltaCount | 24 | outPacketDeltaCount -> postPacketDeltaCount Regards, Benoit. --------------050902080003090107080407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hi, 

ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt

2.3  Naming Conventions for Information Elements

         Middleboxes may change flow properties, such as the DSCP value
         or the source IP address.  There are different Information
         Elements required for the original values of these properites
         and for the modified values.  As a general rule, it is
         recommended that names for Information Elements containing
         the original properties have no specific prefix while names
         of Information Elements with containing the modified
         properties have the prefix "post".


First of all, the last sentence should read:
As a general rule, it is
recommended that names for Information Elements containing
the original properties have no specific prefix while names
of Information Elements containing the modified

Then, to be consistent with the "post" prefix and with http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/2757.html, I propose to change the name of the 4 information elements
   |    19 | OutMulticastPacketCount ->  postMulticastPacketCount 
   |    20 | OutMulticastOctetCount  ->  postMulticastOctetCount  
   |    23 | outOctetDeltaCount      ->  postOctetDeltaCount
   |    24 | outPacketDeltaCount     ->  postPacketDeltaCount
Regards, Benoit.






--------------050902080003090107080407--

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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Tue Apr 26 10:50:21 2005
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From: Benoit Claise 
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Dear all,

As already noted during the internal IPFIX meeting at Washington, there 
are some discrepancies regarding the BGP related Information Element.
Hereafter the list of them

ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt 
 
| 16 | bgpSourceAsNumber
| 17 | bgpDestinationAsNumber
| 18 | bgpNextHopIpV4Address
| 63 | bgpNextHopIpV6Address
| 128 | bgpNextHopAsNumber
| 129 | ipNextHopAsNumber

I'm trying to answer this simple question: 
Which I.E. should I use if a flow is coming from AS1 to AS5 and observed on a BGP router in AS3?

   AS1 ----- AS2 ------ AS3 -----AS4 ------AS5
  --------------------------------------------> flow

If I configure the router in AS3 to export the origin AS's (for the one familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
AS1 and AS5, exported in #16 and #17 respectively. This is OK.

If I configure the router in AS3 to export the peer AS's (for the one familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
- AS2 and AS4 (**), exported in #? (*) and #128 (**) respectively

 (*) I don't find the respective I.E.
 (** ) attention: according to the current definition, if "bgp next-hop 
 self" is configured on the router in AS3, this I.E. will report AS3!!
 So I don't think the current I.E. #128 is useful as we have to know 
 on the collector's side whether next-hop self is configured on not!

I would like to propose that 
1. we change #128 to bgpDstPeerASNumber with a new definition (to avoid the problem with the next hop-self)
2. we change #129 to bgpSrcPeerASNumber. Why changing #129 and not using the a new I.E? Because I think it was the intended goal behind its definition.

5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
  Description:
    The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path to 
    which packets of this flow are forwarded.

  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16

  Data Type Semantics: identifier

  ElementId: 128
 
  Status: current

  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
    definition of the AS number.


5.4.6  bgpSrcPeerASNumber

  Description:
     The autonomous system (AS) number of the previous AS in the AS path 
     from which packets of this flow arrived. In case of BGP asymmetry, the     
     bgpPreviousAsNumber might not be able to report the correct value.

 Data Type Semantics: identifier

 ElementId: 129

 Status: current

 Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
    definition of the AS number.


Does someone have a different view?

Regards, Benoit.


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From IgnacioSmall@gbop.com  Tue Apr 26 12:47:05 2005
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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Tue Apr 26 13:57:42 2005
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Benoit,

Very good analysis. My opinion about this, bgp nexthop-self is to use 
the interface bgp runs on as the nexthop in route advertisement. It's to 
tell its peers to use this address, but doesnt affect nexthops in its 
own routing table. Therefore it should not affect the flow ASes.
In your example, AS3 should export AS1 as 16, AS5 as 17, AS4 as 128. I 
know Cisco has option to export either origin AS or peer AS, not both, 
but in reality both are useful. So we may make it consitent to export 
src AS, dest AS, peer AS. As for ipNexthopAs, is that the immediate 
nexthop AS? Normally IGP is used for bgp nexthop reachability, and they 
are in same AS, so it's not so useful as the other three.
As for the name of 128. I agree with you, bgpDstPeerASNumber is more 
clear to describe this. And this depends on the bgp peer session type, 
IBGP or EBGP. For the former, the current router may not know the next 
AS in the AS path to destination. So I'd prefer the following description:

 > 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
 >  Description:
 >    The autonomous system (AS) number of bgp peer AS in the path to
 > which packets of this flow are forwarded. If it's IBGP, it's the same
 > as local AS, and if it's EBGP, it's the next AS in AS path.
 >
 >  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
 >
 >  Data Type Semantics: identifier
 >
 >  ElementId: 128
 >
 >  Status: current
 >
 >  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
 >    definition of the AS number.

Similar for 129 if it's changed to bgpSrcPeerASNumber.

Regards,
Eric



Benoit Claise wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> As already noted during the internal IPFIX meeting at Washington, there 
> are some discrepancies regarding the BGP related Information Element.
> Hereafter the list of them
> 
> ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt 
> 
> | 16 | bgpSourceAsNumber
> | 17 | bgpDestinationAsNumber
> | 18 | bgpNextHopIpV4Address
> | 63 | bgpNextHopIpV6Address
> | 128 | bgpNextHopAsNumber
> | 129 | ipNextHopAsNumber
> 
> I'm trying to answer this simple question: Which I.E. should I use if a 
> flow is coming from AS1 to AS5 and observed on a BGP router in AS3?
> 
>   AS1 ----- AS2 ------ AS3 -----AS4 ------AS5
>  --------------------------------------------> flow
> 
> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the origin AS's (for the one 
> familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
> AS1 and AS5, exported in #16 and #17 respectively. This is OK.
> 
> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the peer AS's (for the one 
> familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
> - AS2 and AS4 (**), exported in #? (*) and #128 (**) respectively
> 
> (*) I don't find the respective I.E.
> (** ) attention: according to the current definition, if "bgp next-hop 
> self" is configured on the router in AS3, this I.E. will report AS3!!
> So I don't think the current I.E. #128 is useful as we have to know on 
> the collector's side whether next-hop self is configured on not!
> 
> I would like to propose that 1. we change #128 to bgpDstPeerASNumber 
> with a new definition (to avoid the problem with the next hop-self)
> 2. we change #129 to bgpSrcPeerASNumber. Why changing #129 and not using 
> the a new I.E? Because I think it was the intended goal behind its 
> definition.
> 
> 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
>  Description:
>    The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path to    
> which packets of this flow are forwarded.
> 
>  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
> 
>  Data Type Semantics: identifier
> 
>  ElementId: 128
> 
>  Status: current
> 
>  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>    definition of the AS number.
> 
> 
> 5.4.6  bgpSrcPeerASNumber
> 
>  Description:
>     The autonomous system (AS) number of the previous AS in the AS path 
>     from which packets of this flow arrived. In case of BGP asymmetry, 
> the         bgpPreviousAsNumber might not be able to report the correct 
> value.
> 
> Data Type Semantics: identifier
> 
> ElementId: 129
> 
> Status: current
> 
> Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>    definition of the AS number.
> 
> 
> Does someone have a different view?
> 
> Regards, Benoit.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Help        mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message 
> body
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> 
> 

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Eric,

> Benoit,
>
> Very good analysis. My opinion about this, bgp nexthop-self is to use 
> the interface bgp runs on as the nexthop in route advertisement. It's 
> to tell its peers to use this address, but doesnt affect nexthops in 
> its own routing table. 

Right, but don't forget that there are other BGP routers in that same 
AS. That will change something for them.

> Therefore it should not affect the flow ASes.
> In your example, AS3 should export AS1 as 16, AS5 as 17, AS4 as 128. I 
> know Cisco has option to export either origin AS or peer AS, not both, 
> but in reality both are useful. 

I agree. This is the reason of the new proposed #128 and #129 definitions.

> So we may make it consitent to export src AS, dest AS, peer AS. As for 
> ipNexthopAs, is that the immediate nexthop AS? Normally IGP is used 
> for bgp nexthop reachability, and they are in same AS, so it's not so 
> useful as the other three.
> As for the name of 128. I agree with you, bgpDstPeerASNumber is more 
> clear to describe this. And this depends on the bgp peer session type, 
> IBGP or EBGP. For the former, the current router may not know the next 
> AS in the AS path to destination. So I'd prefer the following 
> description:

Well. The bgpDstPeerASNumber definition I propose has been specified so 
that,
if the flow goes to a router in AS3:
- you would export AS2  for bgpDstPeerASNumber if you export from R10
- you would export AS2  for bgpDstPeerASNumber if you export from R12
With my proposed definition, this is indepent of the next-hop self 
configured on R12

  R10----R11----R12  --------- R20 -------------R30
 <------AS1--------->           <-AS2->           <-AS3->
 ----------------------flow------------------------------->



Note that with the example above and the #128 I.E. in 
ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt, 
and with next-hop self on R12
- you would export AS1  for #128  if you export from R10
- you would export AS2  for #128  if you export from R12


>
> > 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
> >  Description:
> >    The autonomous system (AS) number of bgp peer AS in the path to
> > which packets of this flow are forwarded. If it's IBGP, it's the same
> > as local AS, and if it's EBGP, it's the next AS in AS path.

The information element definition should be independent of iBGP or 
eBGP, otherwise the collector has no clue about about the meaning of the 
information elements unless he knows whether this is iBGP or an eBGP. So 
I prefer my proposed definition:
   The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path to 
which packets of this flow are forwarded.

Regards, Benoit.

> >
> >  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
> >
> >  Data Type Semantics: identifier
> >
> >  ElementId: 128
> >
> >  Status: current
> >
> >  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
> >    definition of the AS number.
>
> Similar for 129 if it's changed to bgpSrcPeerASNumber.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
> Benoit Claise wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As already noted during the internal IPFIX meeting at Washington, 
>> there are some discrepancies regarding the BGP related Information 
>> Element.
>> Hereafter the list of them
>>
>> ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt 
>>
>> | 16 | bgpSourceAsNumber
>> | 17 | bgpDestinationAsNumber
>> | 18 | bgpNextHopIpV4Address
>> | 63 | bgpNextHopIpV6Address
>> | 128 | bgpNextHopAsNumber
>> | 129 | ipNextHopAsNumber
>>
>> I'm trying to answer this simple question: Which I.E. should I use if 
>> a flow is coming from AS1 to AS5 and observed on a BGP router in AS3?
>>
>>   AS1 ----- AS2 ------ AS3 -----AS4 ------AS5
>>  --------------------------------------------> flow
>>
>> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the origin AS's (for the 
>> one familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
>> AS1 and AS5, exported in #16 and #17 respectively. This is OK.
>>
>> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the peer AS's (for the one 
>> familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
>> - AS2 and AS4 (**), exported in #? (*) and #128 (**) respectively
>>
>> (*) I don't find the respective I.E.
>> (** ) attention: according to the current definition, if "bgp 
>> next-hop self" is configured on the router in AS3, this I.E. will 
>> report AS3!!
>> So I don't think the current I.E. #128 is useful as we have to know 
>> on the collector's side whether next-hop self is configured on not!
>>
>> I would like to propose that 1. we change #128 to bgpDstPeerASNumber 
>> with a new definition (to avoid the problem with the next hop-self)
>> 2. we change #129 to bgpSrcPeerASNumber. Why changing #129 and not 
>> using the a new I.E? Because I think it was the intended goal behind 
>> its definition.
>>
>> 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
>>  Description:
>>    The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path 
>> to    which packets of this flow are forwarded.
>>
>>  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
>>
>>  Data Type Semantics: identifier
>>
>>  ElementId: 128
>>
>>  Status: current
>>
>>  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>>    definition of the AS number.
>>
>>
>> 5.4.6  bgpSrcPeerASNumber
>>
>>  Description:
>>     The autonomous system (AS) number of the previous AS in the AS 
>> path     from which packets of this flow arrived. In case of BGP 
>> asymmetry, the         bgpPreviousAsNumber might not be able to 
>> report the correct value.
>>
>> Data Type Semantics: identifier
>>
>> ElementId: 129
>>
>> Status: current
>>
>> Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>>    definition of the AS number.
>>
>>
>> Does someone have a different view?
>>
>> Regards, Benoit.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Help        mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in 
>> message body
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>>
>>
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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Wed Apr 27 15:09:49 2005
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From: Eric Ji 
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To: Benoit Claise 
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Subject: Re: [ipfix-info] BGP related Information Elements
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Benoit,

I agree with your proposed definition. Actually I just think we needn't 
mention nexthop-self at all, it should not affect the flow AS export. 
And same thing for I/EBGP. But the definition need change due to the 
issues as in my comments. I can do this if needed.

Regards,
Eric

Benoit Claise wrote:
> Eric,
> 
>> Benoit,
>>
>> Very good analysis. My opinion about this, bgp nexthop-self is to use 
>> the interface bgp runs on as the nexthop in route advertisement. It's 
>> to tell its peers to use this address, but doesnt affect nexthops in 
>> its own routing table. 
> 
> 
> Right, but don't forget that there are other BGP routers in that same 
> AS. That will change something for them.
--------
comments: If they are in same AS. (1) if full mesh is used, they dont 
exchange routes among themselves, nothing in other routers' routing 
table is affected. (2) if confederation/reflector etc is used, it may 
affect other routers' bgp route nexthop, but ASpath is not affected by 
nexthop-self command.
Therefore, nexthop-self would not affect ASpath in BGP, and it should 
not affect AS export.

>> Therefore it should not affect the flow ASes.
>> In your example, AS3 should export AS1 as 16, AS5 as 17, AS4 as 128. I 
>> know Cisco has option to export either origin AS or peer AS, not both, 
>> but in reality both are useful. 
> 
> 
> I agree. This is the reason of the new proposed #128 and #129 definitions.
> 
>> So we may make it consitent to export src AS, dest AS, peer AS. As for 
>> ipNexthopAs, is that the immediate nexthop AS? Normally IGP is used 
>> for bgp nexthop reachability, and they are in same AS, so it's not so 
>> useful as the other three.
>> As for the name of 128. I agree with you, bgpDstPeerASNumber is more 
>> clear to describe this. And this depends on the bgp peer session type, 
>> IBGP or EBGP. For the former, the current router may not know the next 
>> AS in the AS path to destination. So I'd prefer the following 
>> description:
> 
> 
> Well. The bgpDstPeerASNumber definition I propose has been specified so 
> that,
> if the flow goes to a router in AS3:
> - you would export AS2  for bgpDstPeerASNumber if you export from R10
> - you would export AS2  for bgpDstPeerASNumber if you export from R12
> With my proposed definition, this is indepent of the next-hop self 
> configured on R12
> 
>  R10----R11----R12  --------- R20 -------------R30
> <------AS1--------->           <-AS2->           <-AS3->
> ----------------------flow------------------------------->
> 
> 
> 
> Note that with the example above and the #128 I.E. in 
> ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt, 
> and with next-hop self on R12
> - you would export AS1  for #128  if you export from R10
> - you would export AS2  for #128  if you export from R12
------
comments: I agree with this. Exporting same AS as local AS may not be 
useful to network admins. The next different AS, in most case it means 
different carriers or networks, are much more useful.

> 
>>
>> > 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
>> >  Description:
>> >    The autonomous system (AS) number of bgp peer AS in the path to
>> > which packets of this flow are forwarded. If it's IBGP, it's the same
>> > as local AS, and if it's EBGP, it's the next AS in AS path.
> 
> 
> The information element definition should be independent of iBGP or 
> eBGP, otherwise the collector has no clue about about the meaning of the 
> information elements unless he knows whether this is iBGP or an eBGP. So 
> I prefer my proposed definition:
>   The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path to 
> which packets of this flow are forwarded.
-----
comments:
I think we need look more into this. Current issues:
(1) the next AS may not necessarily be different, it's not uncommon to 
loop AS, i.e, repeat AS in ASpath to make it less preferable in the 
routing calculation. Juniper has option to control that.
(2) For AS_SEQUENCE, it's ok. But for AS_SET, since multiple ASes are 
combined together into a SET, no single AS stands out as the 'peerAS' 
per definition.
My tentative propose is a change to your definition above:
The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path, which 
is different from local AS, to which packets of this flow are forwarded.


> Regards, Benoit.
> 
>> >
>> >  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
>> >
>> >  Data Type Semantics: identifier
>> >
>> >  ElementId: 128
>> >
>> >  Status: current
>> >
>> >  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>> >    definition of the AS number.
>>
>> Similar for 129 if it's changed to bgpSrcPeerASNumber.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> Benoit Claise wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> As already noted during the internal IPFIX meeting at Washington, 
>>> there are some discrepancies regarding the BGP related Information 
>>> Element.
>>> Hereafter the list of them
>>>
>>> ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-info-07-pre.txt 
>>>
>>> | 16 | bgpSourceAsNumber
>>> | 17 | bgpDestinationAsNumber
>>> | 18 | bgpNextHopIpV4Address
>>> | 63 | bgpNextHopIpV6Address
>>> | 128 | bgpNextHopAsNumber
>>> | 129 | ipNextHopAsNumber
>>>
>>> I'm trying to answer this simple question: Which I.E. should I use if 
>>> a flow is coming from AS1 to AS5 and observed on a BGP router in AS3?
>>>
>>>   AS1 ----- AS2 ------ AS3 -----AS4 ------AS5
>>>  --------------------------------------------> flow
>>>
>>> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the origin AS's (for the 
>>> one familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
>>> AS1 and AS5, exported in #16 and #17 respectively. This is OK.
>>>
>>> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the peer AS's (for the one 
>>> familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
>>> - AS2 and AS4 (**), exported in #? (*) and #128 (**) respectively
>>>
>>> (*) I don't find the respective I.E.
>>> (** ) attention: according to the current definition, if "bgp 
>>> next-hop self" is configured on the router in AS3, this I.E. will 
>>> report AS3!!
>>> So I don't think the current I.E. #128 is useful as we have to know 
>>> on the collector's side whether next-hop self is configured on not!
>>>
>>> I would like to propose that 1. we change #128 to bgpDstPeerASNumber 
>>> with a new definition (to avoid the problem with the next hop-self)
>>> 2. we change #129 to bgpSrcPeerASNumber. Why changing #129 and not 
>>> using the a new I.E? Because I think it was the intended goal behind 
>>> its definition.
>>>
>>> 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber
>>>  Description:
>>>    The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path 
>>> to    which packets of this flow are forwarded.
>>>
>>>  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16
>>>
>>>  Data Type Semantics: identifier
>>>
>>>  ElementId: 128
>>>
>>>  Status: current
>>>
>>>  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>>>    definition of the AS number.
>>>
>>>
>>> 5.4.6  bgpSrcPeerASNumber
>>>
>>>  Description:
>>>     The autonomous system (AS) number of the previous AS in the AS 
>>> path     from which packets of this flow arrived. In case of BGP 
>>> asymmetry, the         bgpPreviousAsNumber might not be able to 
>>> report the correct value.
>>>
>>> Data Type Semantics: identifier
>>>
>>> ElementId: 129
>>>
>>> Status: current
>>>
>>> Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>>>    definition of the AS number.
>>>
>>>
>>> Does someone have a different view?
>>>
>>> Regards, Benoit.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Help        mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in 
>>> message body
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>>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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From Kinney@jamestownpaint.com  Wed Apr 27 22:53:04 2005
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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Wed Apr 27 23:29:39 2005
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From: Danny McPherson 
Subject: Re: [ipfix-info] BGP related Information Elements
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:24:06 -0600
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> -----
> comments:
> I think we need look more into this. Current issues:
> (1) the next AS may not necessarily be different, it's not uncommon to 
> loop AS, i.e, repeat AS in ASpath to make it less preferable in the 
> routing calculation. Juniper has option to control that.

The local AS is never added to the AS_PATH until the route is
advertised to an external BGP peer (or BGP confederation peer).
Padding (i.e., typically prepending only occurs on route advertisement
to an external BGP peer).  There are some hacks for this but I
don't believe IPFIX should attempt to accommodate those corner
cases.

> (2) For AS_SEQUENCE, it's ok. But for AS_SET, since multiple ASes are 
> combined together into a SET, no single AS stands out as the 'peerAS' 
> per definition.
> My tentative propose is a change to your definition above:
> The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path, which 
> is different from local AS, to which packets of this flow are 
> forwarded.

You really don't know whether packets are actually going to be forwarded
along that path (I know, rathole), all that this is really reporting is 
that
the peerAS value represents that of the leftmost AS path segment in the
AS_PATH for the best BGP route associated with the destination prefix 
(i.e.,
the BGP Loc-RIB entry).

Indeed, if the leftmost (first) path segment in the AS_PATH contains an
AS_SET, multiple AS values could be returned.  We should account for 
that
condition.

Finally, while not the case with route reflection, we should perhaps
account for AS_CONFED_SET and AS_CONFED_SEQUENCE in the AS_PATH.

-danny






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On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:39 AM, Benoit Claise wrote:
>
> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the origin AS's (for the 
> one familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
> AS1 and AS5, exported in #16 and #17 respectively. This is OK.
>
> If I configure the router in AS3 to export the peer AS's (for the one 
> familiar with NetFlow), the flow record contains:
> - AS2 and AS4 (**), exported in #? (*) and #128 (**) respectively
>
> (*) I don't find the respective I.E.
> (** ) attention: according to the current definition, if "bgp next-hop 
> self" is configured on the router in AS3, this I.E. will report AS3!!

And indeed the BGP NEXT_HOP is most always most always within
the local AS, unless on the AS egress border router.  I'm not sure
I understand why anyone would want to report on the "origin AS"
value for the BGP NEXT_HOP anyways.  Could someone explain this to
me?  The BGP NEXT_HOP itself makes sense, but recursive lookups
for the "origin AS" of the BGP NEXT_HOP seems a bit silly to me -
perhaps I'm missing something?

> So I don't think the current I.E. #128 is useful as we have to know on 
> the collector's side whether next-hop self is configured on not!


> I would like to propose that 1. we change #128 to bgpDstPeerASNumber 
> with a new definition (to avoid the problem with the next hop-self)
> 2. we change #129 to bgpSrcPeerASNumber. Why changing #129 and not 
> using the a new I.E? Because I think it was the intended goal behind 
> its definition.
>
> 5.4.6  bgpDstPeerASNumber

I'd prefer a name with bgpDstAdjacentASNumber or the like, as this is 
still a bit
confusing.

>  Description:
>    The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path to 
> which packets of this flow are forwarded.

"next AS" should probably read something like "leftmost" or "first" AS 
segment
in the AS_PATH, where the term "segment" is employed to accommodate 
either
a single AS or an AS_SET.

>
>  Abstract Data Type: unsigned16

Could be multiple entries with an AS_SET.

>  Data Type Semantics: identifier
>
>  ElementId: 128
>  Status: current
>
>  Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>    definition of the AS number.

s/BGB-4/BGP-4/

Also, you might want to scrap the RFC 1930 reference and just use
RFC 1771 or ietf-idr-bgp-26.txt.

>
> 5.4.6  bgpSrcPeerASNumber

Same issue..  Something like bgpSrcAdjacentASNumber or the like.
>
>  Description:
>     The autonomous system (AS) number of the previous AS in the AS 
> path     from which packets of this flow arrived. In case of BGP 
> asymmetry, the         bgpPreviousAsNumber might not be able to report 
> the correct value.

Note the "Previous" in the name above.  Also, should you say something 
about
source and destination prefixes here and above, it might help 
implementers, per
this would be a "first" or "leftmost" AS segment in the AS_PATH for the 
source
IP prefix in the BGP Loc-RIB that contains the source IP prefix, while 
above it's
the destination prefix, etc..

>
> Data Type Semantics: identifier
>
> ElementId: 129
>
> Status: current
>
> Reference: See RFC 1771 for a description of BGB-4 and see RFC 1930 a
>    definition of the AS number.

Also, in addition to accounting for AS_SETs, we should account for 
AS_CONFED_*
segments as well.

Same as above..

-danny


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Dear all,

I'm just writing a little ipfix prototype implementation and found that the
definition of the exportedOctetTotalCount, droppedOctetTotalCount etc.
Information Elements is not clear to me. Does this number include protocol
headers, if yes which (L2, L3...), does it refer to the number of octets
transfered on the wire?? What does it really count?

Thanks in advance for the clarification,

Thomas

-- 
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Network Laboratories               Phone:  +49 6221 90511-28
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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Thu Apr 28 15:37:23 2005
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Hi Danny,

Except your harsh words that I simply ignore, is there any difference 
from my original concerns? the AS fields in ipfix-info draft are 
unsigned16 identifiers, how to report AS_SET etc still needs be 
discussed and resolved. 'Reporting multiple AS values', or 'perhaps 
count this and that', remember we are not writing an application only 
for the use of ourselves, in which case you could do anything no one cares.

Again, I dont want to see this maillist to become a place where you can 
bark others as 'you really dont know this and that', sth like that. You 
can go to online forums if you like that way before you make any 
discussions. To address your question, yes, I used to work on developing 
two bgp stacks, and yes, I am working on sth else now and haven't 
touched bgp for a while.

Regards,
Eric


Danny McPherson wrote:
>> -----
>> comments:
>> I think we need look more into this. Current issues:
>> (1) the next AS may not necessarily be different, it's not uncommon to 
>> loop AS, i.e, repeat AS in ASpath to make it less preferable in the 
>> routing calculation. Juniper has option to control that.
> 
> 
> The local AS is never added to the AS_PATH until the route is
> advertised to an external BGP peer (or BGP confederation peer).
> Padding (i.e., typically prepending only occurs on route advertisement
> to an external BGP peer).  There are some hacks for this but I
> don't believe IPFIX should attempt to accommodate those corner
> cases.
> 
>> (2) For AS_SEQUENCE, it's ok. But for AS_SET, since multiple ASes are 
>> combined together into a SET, no single AS stands out as the 'peerAS' 
>> per definition.
>> My tentative propose is a change to your definition above:
>> The autonomous system (AS) number of the next AS in the AS path, which 
>> is different from local AS, to which packets of this flow are forwarded.
> 
> 
> You really don't know whether packets are actually going to be forwarded
> along that path (I know, rathole), all that this is really reporting is 
> that
> the peerAS value represents that of the leftmost AS path segment in the
> AS_PATH for the best BGP route associated with the destination prefix 
> (i.e.,
> the BGP Loc-RIB entry).
> 
> Indeed, if the leftmost (first) path segment in the AS_PATH contains an
> AS_SET, multiple AS values could be returned.  We should account for that
> condition.
> 
> Finally, while not the case with route reflection, we should perhaps
> account for AS_CONFED_SET and AS_CONFED_SEQUENCE in the AS_PATH.
> -danny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 

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From: Danny McPherson 
Subject: Re: [ipfix-info] BGP related Information Elements
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On Apr 28, 2005, at 1:13 PM, Eric Ji wrote:
>
> Except your harsh words that I simply ignore, is there any difference 
> from my original concerns?

Nope, I believe we were in agreement (not sure what you found harsh 
about
my message).  As a matter of fact, I thought pointing out that an AS_AET
could be returned was quite a keen observation.  The only additional 
points
I had were:

o the local AS segment isn't in the path until the route is
advertised to an external BGP peer

o AS_CONFED_* should be considered as well

o the "leftmost" or "first" AS segment is likely more intuitive 
terminology

o and I didn't quite understand what point there was in IPFIX reporting
here what the value of a recursive lookup for the origin AS value of
the BGP NEXT_HOP IP address.

> the AS fields in ipfix-info draft are unsigned16 identifiers, how to 
> report AS_SET etc still needs be discussed and resolved. 'Reporting 
> multiple AS values', or 'perhaps count this and that', remember we are 
> not writing an application only for the use of ourselves, in which 
> case you could do anything no one cares.

Indeed, I know this quite well :-)

> Again, I dont want to see this maillist to become a place where you 
> can bark others as 'you really dont know this and that', sth like 
> that.

Heh, I didn't think I was barking .. I'm typically the last one to bark 
about
something on a mailing list.  Though I've been lurking here forever I 
rarely
chime in..

>  You can go to online forums if you like that way before you make any 
> discussions. To address your question, yes, I used to work on 
> developing two bgp stacks, and yes, I am working on sth else now and 
> haven't touched bgp for a while.

I never asked for your qualifications, and honestly don't care.  The 
AS_SET
observation was quite keen.

Perhaps you should reread my message with a less sensitive hat on :-)

-danny


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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Thu Apr 28 17:37:43 2005
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:29:54 -0700
From: Eric Ji 
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To: Danny McPherson 
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Subject: Re: [ipfix-info] BGP related Information Elements
References: <426E5295.8080602@cisco.com> <426E7E9D.90609@yahoo-inc.com> <426FBA65.5030304@cisco.com> <426FE084.7000306@yahoo-inc.com> <000e613ec6d01630412189fd63a69e7a@tcb.net> <427135DD.50207@yahoo-inc.com> 
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As said in personal email exchanges with Danny, I think I over-acted in 
my previous email. Sorry for that Danny.

Danny McPherson wrote:
> 
> On Apr 28, 2005, at 1:13 PM, Eric Ji wrote:
> 
>>
>> Except your harsh words that I simply ignore, is there any difference 
>> from my original concerns?
> 
> 
> Nope, I believe we were in agreement (not sure what you found harsh about
> my message).  As a matter of fact, I thought pointing out that an AS_AET
> could be returned was quite a keen observation.  The only additional points
> I had were:
> 
> o the local AS segment isn't in the path until the route is
> advertised to an external BGP peer
 >
> o AS_CONFED_* should be considered as well
---
agree on both.
> 
> o the "leftmost" or "first" AS segment is likely more intuitive terminology
> 
> o and I didn't quite understand what point there was in IPFIX reporting
> here what the value of a recursive lookup for the origin AS value of
> the BGP NEXT_HOP IP address.
---
agree, as said, we may not mention nexthop, just rely on the ASpath to 
figure out peerAS.

>> the AS fields in ipfix-info draft are unsigned16 identifiers, how to 
>> report AS_SET etc still needs be discussed and resolved. 'Reporting 
>> multiple AS values', or 'perhaps count this and that', remember we are 
>> not writing an application only for the use of ourselves, in which 
>> case you could do anything no one cares.
> 
> 
> Indeed, I know this quite well :-)
---
Yeah, hope this can be addressed. Use other method to figure out,
or report as 0 which means user needs figure out by themselves, or 
report multiple AS and change AS field definition?


>> Again, I dont want to see this maillist to become a place where you 
>> can bark others as 'you really dont know this and that', sth like that.
> 
> 
> Heh, I didn't think I was barking .. I'm typically the last one to bark 
> about
> something on a mailing list.  Though I've been lurking here forever I 
> rarely
> chime in..
> 
>>  You can go to online forums if you like that way before you make any 
>> discussions. To address your question, yes, I used to work on 
>> developing two bgp stacks, and yes, I am working on sth else now and 
>> haven't touched bgp for a while.
> 
> 
> I never asked for your qualifications, and honestly don't care.  The AS_SET
> observation was quite keen.
> 
> Perhaps you should reread my message with a less sensitive hat on :-)
> 
> -danny
> 
> 
> 

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From Valen8648@jedi.com  Thu Apr 28 23:18:39 2005
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From: "Freyr Valentine" 
To: "Brava Hayes" 
Subject: Re: VlAGGRA WALLIUM Ci-alis
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:11:36 -0500
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Hello, 

It's not above a quarter of a mile to the headland yonder, and w
mistake when he handed me the commission which the Secretary of

the dowry, you will not consider it unreasonable that I forget to
Slowly, faintly, the colour crept back into that ashen face.  The
amiable familiarity he used, Lord Julian slipped an arm through o
had bethought him of his younger brother, a soldier at home
That with his own hands he should do that which most men of his
beach-combers, English, French, and Dutch, became a dignified,
They do not wish to see account-books.  Few of them can read.
glances of those fierce eyes.  Instinct warned him that his life 
the agreed share.  Withdrawal from a position of that kind is eve
I must have known then, if I had not already learnt it, that I ha
Bishop just issuing from the shed.  He doffed his hat and stood
Briefly on that he told it her.


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From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu  Fri Apr 29 18:13:27 2005
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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:46:27 +0200
From: Benoit Claise 
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Dear all,

I just posted a new version of the IPFIX protocol draft.

Changes:
- corrected the issues 
http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ipfix/protocol/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-12.nits.txt
- updated the references
- one or two editorial improvements.

I really hope this is the last version.

Regards, Benoit

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Dear all, 



I just posted a new version of the IPFIX protocol draft.



Changes:

- corrected the issues
http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ipfix/protocol/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-12.nits.txt

- updated the references

- one or two editorial improvements.



I really hope this is the last version.



Regards, Benoit




--------------020802030308020805060409--

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From Estra@jjjnet.com  Sat Apr 30 15:50:46 2005
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From: "Helfried Estrada" 
To: "Llywellyn Conrad" 
Subject: Re: Medicaations 50-CTO
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:28:24 -0500
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Hello, 

occupation his lordship could have no possible suspicion.  With t
of this they sped on to pick up the three boats that were standin

with his title and position, his personal grace and the charm of 
The Arabella was advancing now along a course which, if continued
By the Saints!  Ye're a bold man, Don Francisco, to come to me
To taste palatable Christian food after months of salt fish and m
this war shall be carried into the New World.  A fleet is coming
The boats pulled away from the shore, with their loads of laughin
fire and metal burst upon him from the buccaneers, and his decks

sister's honour is in pawn to me.  Should you forget to return wi


On the quarter deck, towards which an overwhelming wave of buccan


Have a nice day.
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