From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 03 11:40:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FQRA0-0000Wt-R8 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:40:08 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FQR9y-0007fz-Hq for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:40:08 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FQQmK-0006sB-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:15:40 -0500 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.10]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FQQmJ-0006s0-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:15:39 -0500 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k33FFbsw005410 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:15:37 -0400 Received: from [128.237.237.151] (vpn-10-25-4-11.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.11]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k33FFbZD029168 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:15:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) References: <442E5319.1040708@fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-Gpgmail-State: !signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: [ipfix] proposed charter; draft-trammell-ipfix-biflow-01 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:15:36 -0400 To: ipfix X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 All, I support Nevil's proposed list of drafts for the next charter of 23 March, as amended and corrected by later messages: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) 3. IPFIX Reducing Redundancy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) 4. IPFIX MIB, to be a Standards-Track RFC (12 months) 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) Note that I recommend the biflow draft for inclusion based upon the -01 revision of 30 March, not the -00 revision. I largely share the concerns the working group raised regarding the previous revision; indeed, these concerns led us to prepare the -01 revision in the time we did. This -01 revision is now available in the I-D directories; the i-d- announce message is forwarded below. Regards, Brian > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-trammell-ipfix-biflow-01.txt > Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:50:01 -0500 > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : Biflow implementation support in IPFIX > Author(s) : B. Trammell, E. Boschi > Filename : draft-trammell-ipfix-biflow-01.txt > Pages : 18 > Date : 2006-3-31 > > This document describes an efficient method for exporting > bidirectional flow (Biflow) information using the IP Flow Information > Export (IPFIX) protocol, representing each Biflow using a single Flow > Record. It proposes two alternatives for information model > extensions to support this method, for the consideration of the IPFIX > Working Group. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trammell-ipfix-biflow-01.txt -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 04 17:48:19 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FQtNS-0006ne-Le for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:47:54 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FQtC5-0002AV-7A for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:36:09 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FQt5w-0004bY-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:29:48 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FQt5v-0004bL-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:29:47 -0500 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k34LTjH6010189 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:29:45 -0400 Received: from [128.237.241.134] (vpn-10-25-4-27.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.27]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k34LTjjx002525 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:29:45 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) References: <9B1103B2-EA4C-466A-8DA8-D5B8F494F9A9@cert.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-8-522736591" Message-Id: <7E4E6217-A7AD-4E01-A97A-53F763F58F01@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: [ipfix] YAF 0.1.0 Release Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:29:37 -0400 To: ipfix X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-8-522736591 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed All, As mentioned in passing at the working group meeting in Dallas, CERT/ NetSA has released an experimental, open-source, libpcap-based flow sensor capable of exporting flow data via IPFIX. YAF 0.1.0 is now available from: http://aircert.sourceforge.net/yaf YAF is made available under the GNU General Public License; its IPFIX message format transcoder implementation, libfixbuf, is made available under the GNU Lesser General Public License. It is announced here for the information and convenience of other IPFIX implementors. From the README: YAF is Yet Another Flow sensor. It processes packet data from pcap(3) dumpfiles as generated by tcpdump(1) or via live capture from an interface using pcap(3) into bidirectional flows, then exports those flows to IPFIX Collecting Processes or in an IPFIX-based file format. Prerequisites required for building YAF are listed at the website. Why does the world need another network flow event generator? YAF is primarily intended as an experimental implementation tracking developments in the IETF IPFIX working group, specifically bidirectional flow representation and archival storage formats. It is designed to perform acceptably as a flow sensor on any network on which white-box flow collection with commodity hardware is appropriate, but tradeoffs between raw performance and clarity of design have generally been made in favor of the latter. The YAF toolchain presently consists of two tools, yaf itself, and yafscii, which converts yaf output into ASCII format. A third (undocumented) tool, yafcollect, is an IPFIX Collecting Process intended for testing purposes. Further capabilities will be added to the suite as it evolves. In general, YAF is alpha quality software. Not every reasonable use case has been thoroughly tested. Be aware of this before using YAF; it should not be deployed in production environments at this time. Of special note to IPFIX implementors considering the use of YAF for testing: YAF and libfixbuf differ from draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19, draft-boschi-ipfix-implementation-guidelines-01, and draft-trammell- ipfix-biflow-01 in the following important ways: 1. Template management is not implemented as recommended. The protocol suggests that templates by uniquely identified by (Template ID, Source ID, Exporter Address) tuples; libfixbuf scopes templates solely by Template ID, with a split between "reader" and "writer" templates to avoid template collision in "IPFIX filter" applications. This is inadequate, and will require an incompatible change to the API in the next libfixbuf release. 2. While libfixbuf will read records containing multiple information elements of the same type, only the last information element of any given type will be available to the transcoder and copied to the application. The same caveat applies to writers; all but the last information element of any given type will be zeroed on transcode. This will be fixed in the next libfixbuf release. 3. SCTP is not supported. Future releases of libfixbuf will support SCTP via the sockets API as in Stevens et. al. _UNIX Network Programming, Volume One, Third Edition_; in reality this translates to SCTP being supported only on certain Linuxes. No plans exist to support any of the various SCTP userland implementations. 4. Single record biflow export as in section 5 of draft-trammell- ipfix-biflow-01 is supported, but as no choice has yet been made concerning the allocation of reverse Information Elements, it uses private Information Elements (specifically, reverseOctetTotalCount is 6871/12, reversePacketTotalCount is 6871/13) for the reverse counters. A full listing of Information Elements, including private IEs, is listed in the YAF manpage. The --uniflow switch to yaf can be used to enable record adjacency biflow export as in section 4.1 of the biflow draft; this is provided solely for compatibility with Collecting Processes without biflow support. I am YAF's principal author and maintainer, so questions, comments, concerns, and flames can be directed to me. Regards, Brian --Apple-Mail-8-522736591 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEMuVI4/8LCZ4pwvYRAkhfAJ41yf9gbnR6p86NiGj0dOIKZVG51ACgxV+F 1EqeD66TaBmswqOArXsvvLo= =pYrT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-8-522736591-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 05 19:51:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRHmS-0008RU-Gm for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:51:20 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRHmQ-0003MB-VB for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:51:20 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRHZz-0006vW-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:38:27 -0500 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRHZy-0006vR-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:38:26 -0500 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k35NcNqU002905; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <2JG5R5TQ>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 01:38:20 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: Benoit Claise Cc: "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 01:38:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f460acdc4aacf7fc5e6f9bd32f8fd8c6 Thanks. Basically I am happy with all you answers. Some (minor) additional remarks inline > -----Original Message----- > From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 00:30 > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) > Cc: 'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail); David Kessens (E-mail); Dan > Romascanu > (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt > > > Bert, all, > > Thanks for your comments. See inline. > For clarity purposes, I removed the obvious editorial > improvements, which have been inserted already. > > Note that I made the following changes: > - I modified all occurrences of Source ID to Observation Domain ID. > - As proposed by Brian Trammell, I clarified: > > Add to the end of 10.2.4.1 Association Establishment: > "Each SCTP stream over which TLS [TLS] will be used MUST be > established as a fully reliable bidirectional stream as > required by RFC 3436." > > Insert a new third paragraph to 10.2.4.2 Association Teardown: > "If TLS [TLS] is used, the Process initiating association > teardown SHOULD send a close_notify alert over each TLS > stream before closing the SCTP association." > > Append to the second paragraph to 10.2.4.3 Stream: > "Only fully reliable bidirectional streams are available if > TLS [TLS] as used, as required by RFC 3436." > > [RFC3436] added as a normative reference > > - Sect 3. > States that Template Sets MUST be sent periodically when > UDP is used. > What if TCP or or SCTP are used? Might want to state what expected > behaviour is in those cases as well. > > I agree this is confusing, as we don't know yet at this stage > that UDP is a MAY. > Since these are examples, since the first two examples don't > discuss any transport protocol issues and since the transport > protocol is explained at length in the section 10, I have > removed the sentences. > > > - sect 3.1 under SOurce ID > I do not understand the last sentence. WHat does it mean? > pls clarify in text. > > As proposed in http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/3145.html, > I moved it into the section "3.4.2.1 Scope... where it > naturally belongs > > > - Page 16 under padding > s/zero (0) octets/zero (0) valued octets/ > or "octets with a value of zero (o)" ?? > > Done. "the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of zero (0) > valued octets. " > Last sentence under "padding" may need a period or semicolon in > the middle of the sentence? > > Done. > > - Sect 5/6 speak about ...DeltaUSeconds, but I cannot find > that term in > INFO spec. It talks about ...DeltaMicroSeconds. Is that > what you mean? > > Corrected already. Someone mentioned it on the mailing > > - sect 6.1.3 > I'd like to see a reference to the IEEE spec for floats. > > Corrected already. This was discussed on the mailing list. > > 6.1.3 float32 > > The float32 data type is encoded as an IEEE > single-precision 32-bit > floating point-type, as specified in [IEEE.754.1985]. > > 6.1.4 float64 > > The float64 data type is encoded as an IEEE > double-precision 64-bit > floating point-type, as specified in [IEEE.754.1985]. > > - sect 6.1.5 > I am not sure that by saying "it is expected that strings > will be coded > in UTF-8 format" will guanrantee interoiperability? > Maybe better use MUST (RFC2119) language. > > I have right now: > > The data type string represents a finite length string of > valid characters of the Unicode character encoding set. The > string data type MUST be encoded in UTF-8 format. The string > is sent as an array of octets using an information element of > fixed or variable length. The length of the information > element specifies the length of the octetarray. > Since this is required for interoperability, I think the > "MUST" is more appropriate. So I changed all definitions in > 6.1.X: from "is encoded" to "MUST be encoded" > > > Note: we have the same sentence in [IPFIX-INFO]: > > It is expected that strings > will be encoded in UTF-8 format, which is identical in encoding for > ASCII characters, but also accommodates other Unicode multi-byte > characters. > > I think this should be removed, as the information model > should not tell how to encode the data. > > > > > > Last sentence of 6.1.5 talks about "NUL" characters. That > again seems > to be ASCII language. Maybe better state "zero valued octets" . > > Following some discussions, the sentence "In case of fixed > length Information Element, if padding is required, padding > MUST be composed of NUL character(s)." has been removed. All > padding related info is now in the padding section. > > - sect 6.1.6 > YOu might want to add a sentence how long this can serve us. > I believ it is something like 146 years, > > 136 years. Added. > > The data type dateTimeSeconds represents a time value in > units of seconds normalised to the GMT timezone. It MUST be > encoded in a 32-bit integer containing the number of seconds > since 0000 UTC Jan 1st 1970. The 32-bit integer allows the > time encoding up to 136 years. > > > - sect 6.2 speaks about signed64/unsigned64 and also for 32 and 16. > Where are those types defined?? > > Previous text: > > 6.1.1 Integral Data Types > > Integral data types - octet, unsigned16, unsigned32 and > unsigned64 - > are encoded using the default canonical format in network byte > order. > > New text: > > 6.1.1 Integral Data Types > > Integral data types - octet, signed octet, unsigned16, > signed16, unsigned32 > signed32, signed64 and unsigned64 - are encoded using the > default canonical > format in network byte order. Signed Integral data types > are represented in > two's complement notation. > > > - one but last para on page 33 > "sufficient time" should be defined/explained somewhat don't > you think so? > > I added the last sentence. > "The Template Withdraw Message MUST not be sent until > sufficient time has elapsed to allow the Collecting Process > to receive and process the last Data Record using this > Template information. This time MUST be configurable. A > suitable default value is 5 seconds after the last Data > Record has been sent. > > > > - I wonder if the one but last para of section 9 is a nice opening > for DoS attacks? > > The sentence is: "If the Collecting Process receives a > Template Withdraw message for a Template Record it has not > received before, it MUST reset the SCTP association, discard > the IPFIX Message, and SHOULD log the error as it does for > malformed IPFIX Messages." > > The point is that we need that statement because it means > that the collector is confused about its own status. And the > only solution is to shutdown the SCTP association, so that > the exporter will resend all the templates with a new SCTP > association. > > - sect 10.2.6 > Where/how is the treshold specified? > Same for sect 10.4.1.1 > > I'm not sure how to answer the questions: > Where? on the exporter So you could add that > How? based on the user appreciation. This is exactly why > we have a MAY statement. > We could say "exceeds a locally configured threshold. By > default this time is foo secs." However, I have no clue what > the value of foo should be. > If the statements are too vague without the default value, I > simply propose to remove them. > So does nobody have an idea what "foo" would be? > - sect 10.3.7 > It is unclear to me how/where the template lifetimes are specified, > defined or configured. > > We wrote the following sentence: > The Template lifetime at > the Collecting Process MUST be at least 3 times higher that the > Template refresh timeout configured on the Exporting Process. > Isn't it enough? > I guess I missed that on my first review. So OK > > - sect 11.4 last para > I guess that just depends of who/where the attacker is, no? > WHat if it is an internal ISP employee? > > Old text: > > The use of a dedicated network prevents IPFIX Messages from being > inspected by an attacker. > > New text: > The use of a dedicated network prevents IPFIX Messages from being > inspected by an external attacker. > at least that is clearer. Hope security ADs are OK with that too. > - sect 12.1 > I do not think the IPfix version number is an IANA controlled thing. > I also think you want that to be changebale only by an IETF standards > action (as opposed to just IETF consensus). Afetr all you want this > protocol to be stds track. > > It was actually the intend behind the sentence: > > "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments > require an IETF Consensus, i.e. they are to be made via RFCs > approved by the IESG." > > Should we simply erase the section 12.1? > Or make clearer? > "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments > are not controlled by IANA, but by an RFC approved by the IESG." > I think if you make it "Standards Action" instead of "IETF Consensus" that you cover it best and that that also represents what you say is intended. > - sect 12.2 seems to be IPFIX-INFO material and not protocol > material?? > > Section 12.2 erased. > > > - Sect 12.1 > The "IPFIX Set ID" starts (I think) a new registry. So you MUST > describe under IANA considerations how to set it up and what the > rules are for new assignements. You have that text (more or less) in > sect 3.3.2, but you must spell it out here for IANA as well. > > New section "12.x Set ID" > > Set ID value identifies the IPFIX Set. Set ID values of 0 and > 1 are not used for historical reasons [RFC3954]. A value of 2 > is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved > for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 > are reserved for future use. Values above 255 are used for Data Sets. > The new Set ID values are defined as "Specification Required" > [RFC 2434] prior to the assignment by IANA. > If you do "Specification Required", does that mean RFC? Or some vendor specific document? Or some other SDO? Or what? Even if the specification is available, do you want some expert review? IANA does not have the subjetc matter expertise to judge if a specification iw well enough to justify a new assignment. > > Then you have a set of Set IDs that get assigned by this document > and you should list them clearly for IANA so they can do the initial > population of the registry. > > - It seems to me that sect 13 is more an APPENDIX and so non-normative? > Might be good to then list it as appendix and state that it is > non-normative. > > I moved the appendix just before the reference section. > ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/instructions2authors.txt > doesn't mention that we should mention something about non-normative > ... unless I missed something? It is just best to be explicit if such a section is or is not normative. We have done so in many earlier RFCs. The below is all fine Bert ----------- - Refrences. - is 1889 really normative? Moved to informative !! Missing citation for Informative reference: P060 L046: [RFC3955] Leinen, S., "Evaluation of Candidate Protocols for IP Flow Removed this reference. - sect 3.1 remove one of the two words "format" You migth also want to add a sentence to explain why the version field is 0x000a for this version. I inserted this proposal Version Version of Flow Record format exported in this message. The value of this field is 0x000a for the current version, incrementing by one the version used in the NetFlow services export version 9 [RFC3954]. - page 33 s/Disused/Unused/ ?? Let me copy the entire paragraph: Disused Templates SHOULD be deleted. Before reusing a Template ID the disused Template MUST be deleted. In order to delete an allocated Template, the Template is withdrawn through the use of a Template Withdraw Message. The term "unused" is already applied in this section with a different meaning. For example "an unused Template ID MUST be used". This means: allocate a new Template ID. However, in the sentence you pointed out: we want to say: the templates that are not used anymore. I propose: "The Templates that are not used anymore SHOULD be deleted. Before reusing a Template ID, the Template MUST be deleted" Thanks again for your comments. Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 05 22:46:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRKVc-00033b-T1 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:46:08 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRKVZ-0002Mq-Lm for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:46:08 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRKFF-0004Rk-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:29:13 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRKFE-0004Rf-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:29:12 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k362T9Nj003044 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:29:09 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k362SBvX003006 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:28:11 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k362S2Nt003001; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.117.0.35] (vpn-10-25-4-13.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.13]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k362S2Jt029632; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:28:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-2-627036302" Message-Id: <549C2ECF-ADCF-4975-8A84-B679AD1EB379@cert.org> Cc: "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:27:56 -0400 To: Benoit Claise , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-2-627036302 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Benoit, One minor typographical edit, below >> - As proposed by Brian Trammell, I clarified: >> >> Append to the second paragraph to 10.2.4.3 Stream: >> "Only fully reliable bidirectional streams are available if >> TLS [TLS] as used, as required by RFC 3436." is used Regards, Brian --Apple-Mail-2-627036302 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFENHyx4/8LCZ4pwvYRAiBoAJ4trRRjtf8a4Q9jWL7LC/eet9E5tACfRvTH f6IfBdfbYxlV4kXWAJfDF0U= =iWNa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-2-627036302-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 05 23:25:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRL7G-0000Tj-Bo for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:25:02 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRL7C-0003nT-UA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:25:02 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRL2W-0002ou-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:20:08 -0500 Received: from zeppo.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.190.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRL2U-0002oj-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:20:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zeppo.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225A934423; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:05 +1200 (NZST) Received: from zeppo.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtpd.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27406-13; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:02 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by zeppo.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9289B341FD; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:02 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k363K2FV012970; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:02 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id k363K0f6012903; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:00 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from nevil-laptop.cs.auckland.ac.nz (nevil-laptop.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.38.130]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:00 +1200 Message-ID: <20060406152000.2r2non487sowc0cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:20:00 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz, Bert Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, david.kessens@nokia.com, dromasca@avaya.com, nevil@auckland.ac.nz Subject: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bf422c85703d3d847fb014987125ac48 Hi Bert: It's taken me longer than I'd expected to revise the IPFIX architecture draft - that's a tribute to your caeful and very helpful review! I've commented on the changes inline below .. - sect 2, under bullet observation domain it speaks a bout a "unique ID". Is that administratively unique? or globally unique? * Unique per Exporting Process (i.e. administratively unique, certainly not globally unique).a - sect 5.4 last line s/Source ID/Domain ID/ ?? Or should the section title be somthing about "Soutrce" ?? I am getting a bit confused about DOmain and Source ID I guess? Protocol doc does indeed speak about SOurce ID. * Changed to Observation Domain ID (ditto for all four IPFIX drafts) - sect 6.4 2nd para. How can a IPfix device count the p[ackets losts in all the possible problem scenarios? Maybe the solution is to say that it should try to count them and if it can, then it should report. Of it cannot count them, then maybe give a indication of the time period that packets could not be handled/seen? * Reowrked para to: In such situations, the IPFIX Device should attempt to count the number of packet losses that have occurred, and report them to its Collector(s). If it is not possible to count losses accurately, e.g. when transport layer errors are detected, the IPFIX device should report this fact, and perhaps indicate the time period during which some packets might not have been observed. - sect 8.1 last para I think it would be good to add a few more words on how operators can avoid congestion. Just keeping it in their own domain helps to not impact other networks, but if it is a live network with normal user data, then it is still problemantic. Maybe you mean that they should use a dedicated network for it? Anyway, best to elaborate somewhat I think. * Added: For example, one could use a dedicated network (or Ethernet link) to carry IPFIX traffic from Exporter to Collector. - I suspect that the Security Considerations section will be considered weak by the security ADs. You may want to check with them for early review/comment. Early meaning right before or in parallel with IETF LC. For example, I am not sure that just MD5 is sufficient anymore. * I've emailed the Security ADs asking for some feedback, but haven't received any answer. I got my Network Security people here at Auckland to read the Security Considerations sections of all the drafts they weren't able to add anything useful. So I've made one slight change to the 'Authentication-only' section: TCP with MD5 options. becomes TCP with 'signed packet' option - It seems to me that sect 11 is also Security COnsideratons, no? So should they be subsections of Sect 10? * Yes. I've done that. - Sect 12.1 I think you rather want Standards Action for approval of a new IPfix version or template, no? * We chose 'Specification Required' from RFC 2434, because that provides the highest degree of review. Since 'IPFIX Protocol' and 'IPFIX Info Model' are standards-track documents, Standards Track action will be needed for the new RFCs defining them, so I don't think the words here need changing. * However, I've changed the words 'template number' to 'set ID,' so that they line up properly with the IPFIX Protocol draft. - page 30: Intellectual Property the last para can be removed. We normally do not add such a statement because such claims can be filed any time, even after RFC publication. * Deleted admin/nites/spelling - refernces/citation issues: !! Missing Reference for citation: [IPFIX-INFO] P008 L037: The IPFIX information model [IPFIX-INFO] defines the base set of * Fixed - In the abstract you should not use a citation * Removed the citation - sect 1.2 last para I would assume that config is done by network ops staff, regardless if it can be done remote or local or whatever the tools are. * Changed para to: Note that the IPFIX system does not provide for remote configuration of an IPFIX device. Instead, implementors must provide an effective way to configure their IPFIX devices. - sect 2, middle of page 5 s/vvery/very/ * Done - page 6, 1st line: s/field/fields/ 3rd line add closing parethesis one but last line: remove 1 open parenthesis * Done - page 8: s/sender Exporter/sending Exporter/ ?? * OK - page 9 In exmaples you should use IP addresses 192.0.2.x/24 as per RFC3330 * Done, addresses mapped as follows .. 198.18.40/24 -> 102.0.2.0/26 198.18.23/24 -> 192.0.2.64/26 198.18.20/24 -> 192.0.2.128/26 - last sentence on page 10. I do not see the difference between "<-->" and "<-->" I know my eyes are getting worse, but this time I suspect it is not caused by my eyes ;-) * The second used tildes instead of minuses. I've changed them to = signs to make it clearer. - sect 5.1.2 last sentence s/Metering Process/Exporting Process/ ?? * Yes changed to /Exporting' - sect 5.3.1. 2nd line s/is/are/ * Done - sect 5.5 Pls use RFC3330 IP addresses in example IP addresses * Done (as above) - Sect 6.3 speaks about "ID". Is that the "Domain ID" ?? * Yes, I've changed the text to make this clear. {ID, configuration domain (O1,O2), sampling algorithm, interval (1 in 100)}, where ID is the Observation Domain ID for the domain containing O1 and O2. The Observation Domain ID uniquely identifies this configuration, and must be sent within the Flow Records in order to be able to match the right configuration control information. - sect 10: s/IPSEC/IPsec/ * Done I submitted the new version, draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-10.txt to internet-drafts@ietf.org, it should be up in a day or so. Thanks again, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITSS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 06 04:39:39 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRQ1j-0000oz-8H for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 04:39:39 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRQ1h-0006uJ-WA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 04:39:39 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRPsR-0001dF-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:30:03 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRPsP-0001cS-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:30:01 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 10:30:00 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k368Tw36023931; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:29:58 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.61.65.191] (ams3-vpn-dhcp447.cisco.com [10.61.65.191]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04865; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:29:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4434D181.7010206@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:29:53 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nevil Brownlee CC: Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz, Bert , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, david.kessens@nokia.com, dromasca@avaya.com Subject: Re: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt References: <20060406152000.2r2non487sowc0cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <20060406152000.2r2non487sowc0cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Nevil, > - sect 6.4 2nd para. > How can a IPfix device count the p[ackets losts in all > the possible problem scenarios? > Maybe the solution is to say that it should try to count > them and if it can, then it should report. Of it cannot count > them, then maybe give a indication of the time period that > packets could not be handled/seen? > > * Reowrked para to: > In such situations, the IPFIX Device should attempt to count the > number of packet losses that have occurred, and report them to its > Collector(s). If it is not possible to count losses accurately, > e.g. when transport layer errors are detected, the IPFIX device should > report this fact, and perhaps indicate the time period during which > some packets might not have been observed. That sounds a bit wooly :-( Which Information Elements will indicate this? Obviously a start and / or end time (if known), but also something indicating where the packet loss occurred, in terms that the collector can understand. So it'd be better to define an information loss message and say "the IPFIX device should report this fact using an information loss message." Cheers. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 06 11:38:00 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRWYa-0002aO-Dv for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:38:00 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRWYY-0004jl-4j for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:38:00 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRWTX-0005DD-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:32:47 -0500 Received: from serv-80-156.sernet.de ([193.175.80.156] helo=mail.anderson.de) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRWTW-0005Cy-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:32:46 -0500 Received: from gate-mh.sernet.de ([193.159.216.158] helo=[192.168.42.180]) by mail.anderson.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1FRWTT-00056b-7M for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:32:45 +0200 Message-ID: <4435349A.1070605@CS.Uni-Goettingen.DE> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:32:42 +0200 From: Sven Anderson Organization: Institute for Informatics Goettingen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060111) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix] Questions of understanding (was: Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt) References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Hi all, I will take the opportunity to ask two questions of understanding. Maybe someone can take a short moment to help me out. >> The Template lifetime at >> the Collecting Process MUST be at least 3 times higher that the >> Template refresh timeout configured on the Exporting Process. How can the Collecting Process make this sure? I can't remember, that there was a way for the Exporting Process to tell the Template refresh timeout. So this is a "MUST" in a protocol specification which is not covered by the protocol itself? (If I decide to use IPFIX without a parallel configuration protocol, this "MUST" goes to the administrator?) >> is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved >> for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 Side note: You are mixing "Option Template Records", "Options Template Records" and "Options Templates Records" all over the document. Is this intended? I never really understood the purpose of Option Template Records and Scopes. Isn't every Flow Key, that is, everything but counters, a kind of scope? When I have two linecards, it doesn't make a difference, if I have two Metering Processes on each of them, "tagging" the flows with a lineCardId (where you could use Scopes), or if I have one Metering Process, and the Flows have a normal lineCardID Flow Key. It will result in the same Flows. So for what exactly do you _need_ scopes? Thanks and cheers, Sven -- Sven Anderson Institute for Informatics - http://www.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de Georg-August-Universitaet Goettingen Lotzestr. 16-18, 37083 Goettingen, Germany -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 06 13:33:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRYMC-0005Ar-R5 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:33:20 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRYMB-0000PO-IT for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:33:20 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRY6t-0000iQ-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:17:31 -0500 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.10]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRY6s-0000iF-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:17:30 -0500 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k36HHQCI029498 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:17:28 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k36HHEYE029489 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:17:14 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k36HH1nu029478; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.237.243.154] (vpn-10-25-4-12.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.12]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k36HH14L030714; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:17:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4434D181.7010206@cisco.com> References: <20060406152000.2r2non487sowc0cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <4434D181.7010206@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-1-680377188" Message-Id: Cc: Nevil Brownlee , Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz, Bert , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, david.kessens@nokia.com, dromasca@avaya.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:16:57 -0400 To: Paul Aitken X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-1-680377188 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Paul, Agreed. This paragraph raises a few of additional questions: Is it _ever_ possible to assume that a Device's estimation of packet loss is accurate? What is the minimum standard of "accuracy" below which a Device should not give such an estimate? Should the information loss message (which, I assume, maps to a scoped data record in the protocol) also include some information about how accurate the Device thinks the estimate, if any, may be? - Brian On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:29 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: > Nevil, > >> - sect 6.4 2nd para. >> How can a IPfix device count the p[ackets losts in all >> the possible problem scenarios? >> Maybe the solution is to say that it should try to count >> them and if it can, then it should report. Of it cannot count >> them, then maybe give a indication of the time period that >> packets could not be handled/seen? >> * Reowrked para to: >> In such situations, the IPFIX Device should attempt to count the >> number of packet losses that have occurred, and report them to its >> Collector(s). If it is not possible to count losses accurately, >> e.g. when transport layer errors are detected, the IPFIX device >> should >> report this fact, and perhaps indicate the time period during which >> some packets might not have been observed. > > That sounds a bit wooly :-( > > Which Information Elements will indicate this? Obviously a start > and / or end time (if known), but also something indicating where > the packet loss occurred, in terms that the collector can understand. > > So it'd be better to define an information loss message and say > "the IPFIX device should report this fact using an information loss > message." > > Cheers. > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ --Apple-Mail-1-680377188 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFENU0M4/8LCZ4pwvYRAh69AJ0X/JIwrfek5jXkyZrGwdXLtABXAgCg3BLO XZ9e2YhSGZ3RMhxfKTKvkJA= =9CPJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-1-680377188-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 06 15:32:27 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRaDT-0004hx-0n for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:32:27 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRaDR-0004dP-JZ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:32:27 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRZo9-0003R8-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:06:17 -0500 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRZo8-0003QV-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:06:16 -0500 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k36J69s5012409; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <2JG5S3LA>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:06:09 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA998@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: Nevil Brownlee , Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz, Bert Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, david.kessens@nokia.com, dromasca@avaya.com Subject: [ipfix] RE: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:06:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee Thanks. Looks good to me. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz] > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 05:20 > To: Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz; Bert > Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; david.kessens@nokia.com; > dromasca@avaya.com; nevil@auckland.ac.nz > Subject: Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt > > > > Hi Bert: > > It's taken me longer than I'd expected to revise the IPFIX > architecture > draft - that's a tribute to your caeful and very helpful review! > > I've commented on the changes inline below .. > > - sect 2, under bullet observation domain > it speaks a bout a "unique ID". > Is that administratively unique? > or globally unique? > > * Unique per Exporting Process (i.e. administratively unique, > certainly not globally unique).a > > - sect 5.4 last line > s/Source ID/Domain ID/ ?? > Or should the section title be somthing about "Soutrce" ?? > I am getting a bit confused about DOmain and Source ID I guess? > Protocol doc does indeed speak about SOurce ID. > > * Changed to Observation Domain ID (ditto for all four IPFIX drafts) > > - sect 6.4 2nd para. > How can a IPfix device count the p[ackets losts in all > the possible problem scenarios? > Maybe the solution is to say that it should try to count > them and if it can, then it should report. Of it cannot count > them, then maybe give a indication of the time period that > packets could not be handled/seen? > > * Reowrked para to: > In such situations, the IPFIX Device should attempt to count the > number of packet losses that have occurred, and report them to its > Collector(s). If it is not possible to count losses accurately, > e.g. when transport layer errors are detected, the IPFIX > device should > report this fact, and perhaps indicate the time period during which > some packets might not have been observed. > > - sect 8.1 last para > I think it would be good to add a few more words on how operators > can avoid congestion. Just keeping it in their own domain helps > to not impact other networks, but if it is a live network with > normal user data, then it is still problemantic. Maybe you mean that > they should use a dedicated network for it? > Anyway, best to elaborate somewhat I think. > > * Added: For example, one could use a dedicated network (or > Ethernet link) to carry IPFIX > traffic from Exporter to Collector. > > - I suspect that the Security Considerations section will be > considered > weak by the security ADs. You may want to check with them for early > review/comment. Early meaning right before or in parallel > with IETF LC. > For example, I am not sure that just MD5 is sufficient anymore. > > * I've emailed the Security ADs asking for some feedback, but > haven't received any answer. I got my Network Security people > here at Auckland to read the Security Considerations sections > of all the drafts they weren't able to add anything useful. > > So I've made one slight change to the > 'Authentication-only' section: > TCP with MD5 options. becomes TCP with 'signed packet' option > - It seems to me that sect 11 is also Security > COnsideratons, no? > So should they be subsections of Sect 10? > > * Yes. I've done that. > > - Sect 12.1 > I think you rather want Standards Action for approval of a new IPfix > version or template, no? > > * We chose 'Specification Required' from RFC 2434, because that > provides the highest degree of review. Since 'IPFIX Protocol' > and 'IPFIX Info Model' are standards-track documents, > Standards Track > action will be needed for the new RFCs defining them, so I don't > think the words here need changing. > > * However, I've changed the words 'template number' to 'set ID,' > so that they line up properly with the IPFIX Protocol draft. > > - page 30: Intellectual Property > the last para can be removed. We normally do not add such a > statement > because such claims can be filed any time, even after RFC > publication. > > * Deleted > > admin/nites/spelling > > - refernces/citation issues: > !! Missing Reference for citation: [IPFIX-INFO] > P008 L037: The IPFIX information model [IPFIX-INFO] > defines the > base set of > > * Fixed > > - In the abstract you should not use a citation > > * Removed the citation > > - sect 1.2 last para > I would assume that config is done by network ops staff, > regardless > if it can be done remote or local or whatever > the tools are. > > * Changed para to: > Note that the IPFIX system does not provide for remote > configuration > of an IPFIX device. Instead, implementors must provide an > effective way to configure their IPFIX devices. > > - sect 2, middle of page 5 > s/vvery/very/ > > * Done > > - page 6, 1st line: s/field/fields/ > 3rd line add closing parethesis > one but last line: remove 1 open parenthesis > > * Done > > - page 8: s/sender Exporter/sending Exporter/ ?? > > * OK > > - page 9 > In exmaples you should use IP addresses 192.0.2.x/24 > as per RFC3330 > > * Done, addresses mapped as follows .. > 198.18.40/24 -> 102.0.2.0/26 > 198.18.23/24 -> 192.0.2.64/26 > 198.18.20/24 -> 192.0.2.128/26 > > - last sentence on page 10. > I do not see the difference between "<-->" and "<-->" > I know my eyes are getting worse, but this time I suspect > it is not caused by my eyes ;-) > > * The second used tildes instead of minuses. > I've changed them to = signs to make it clearer. > > - sect 5.1.2 last sentence > s/Metering Process/Exporting Process/ ?? > > * Yes changed to /Exporting' > > - sect 5.3.1. 2nd line > s/is/are/ > > * Done > > - sect 5.5 Pls use RFC3330 IP addresses in example IP addresses > > * Done (as above) > > - Sect 6.3 speaks about "ID". Is that the "Domain ID" ?? > > * Yes, I've changed the text to make this clear. > {ID, configuration domain (O1,O2), sampling algorithm, > interval > (1 in 100)}, where ID is the Observation Domain ID for the domain > containing O1 and O2. The Observation Domain ID uniquely > identifies > this configuration, and must be sent within the Flow > Records in order > to be able to match the right configuration control information. > > - sect 10: s/IPSEC/IPsec/ > > * Done > > I submitted the new version, draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-10.txt > to internet-drafts@ietf.org, it should be up in a day or so. > > > Thanks again, Nevil > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITSS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From 984quent@australiamail.com Thu Apr 06 19:36:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRe1h-0003AR-Rs for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:36:33 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRe1g-0003s5-95 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:36:33 -0400 Received: from [217.54.140.32] (helo=HAYTHAM.yxcuje.net) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRdcz-0005Qm-00; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:11:01 -0500 From: "Nelson " <455mickey@chocofan.com> To: Subject: New Vacancies Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 07:15:45 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: JyoIvlACjLvlQEWFzWGmBHe1mDxMRIqesD86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Dear Sir/Madam, We have proved professional skills to our local customers and work on international markets already. 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C659B0.8CA6B6D0-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Fri Apr 07 05:40:56 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRnSa-0007ry-4e for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRnSY-0005w7-Ru for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRn7y-0000av-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 04:19:38 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRn7w-0000Zo-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 04:19:37 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k379Ixn14750; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:18:59 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:18:58 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9A6D@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt Thread-Index: AcZZnk2ihbdHv68fQE2OK20BE3nNmwAhDKzg From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Brian Trammell" , "Paul Aitken" Cc: "Nevil Brownlee" , , "Bert" , , , Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 Brian, I fear that the number of lost packets which an IPFIX entity is able to report might only ever be a *lower limit* for=20 the number of losses, since e.g. at a time of network downtime some flows might have been exported using UDP whose export ended before the network comes up again. In that case estimating the number of lost packets from skipped counters in IPFIX messages is not possible.=20 In any case wouldn't it make sense to talk about number of lost messages instead of packets - or is this synonymous? Regards, Carsten. > -----Original Message----- > From: majordomo listserver=20 > [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:17 PM > To: Paul Aitken > Cc: Nevil Brownlee; Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz; Bert;=20 > ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; david.kessens@nokia.com; dromasca@avaya.com > Subject: Re: [ipfix] Re: AD review for:=20 > draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt >=20 > Paul, >=20 > Agreed. This paragraph raises a few of additional questions: >=20 > Is it _ever_ possible to assume that a Device's estimation of packet =20 > loss is accurate? What is the minimum standard of "accuracy" below =20 > which a Device should not give such an estimate? Should the =20 > information loss message (which, I assume, maps to a scoped data =20 > record in the protocol) also include some information about how =20 > accurate the Device thinks the estimate, if any, may be? >=20 > - Brian >=20 > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:29 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >=20 > > Nevil, > > > >> - sect 6.4 2nd para. > >> How can a IPfix device count the p[ackets losts in all > >> the possible problem scenarios? > >> Maybe the solution is to say that it should try to count > >> them and if it can, then it should report. Of it cannot count > >> them, then maybe give a indication of the time period that > >> packets could not be handled/seen? > >> * Reowrked para to: > >> In such situations, the IPFIX Device should attempt to count the > >> number of packet losses that have occurred, and report them to its > >> Collector(s). If it is not possible to count losses accurately, > >> e.g. when transport layer errors are detected, the IPFIX device =20 > >> should > >> report this fact, and perhaps indicate the time period=20 > during which > >> some packets might not have been observed. > > > > That sounds a bit wooly :-( > > > > Which Information Elements will indicate this? Obviously a start =20 > > and / or end time (if known), but also something indicating where =20 > > the packet loss occurred, in terms that the collector can=20 > understand. > > > > So it'd be better to define an information loss message and say =20 > > "the IPFIX device should report this fact using an=20 > information loss =20 > > message." > > > > Cheers. > > --=20 > > Paul Aitken > > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > > > > -- > > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in =20 > > message body > > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >=20 >=20 -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Fri Apr 07 06:15:23 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRnzv-0007JM-60 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 06:15:23 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRnzt-0006kv-U0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 06:15:23 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRnfk-0006Ai-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 04:54:32 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRnfj-0006Aa-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 04:54:31 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2006 11:54:30 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k379sR36025042; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:54:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.61.64.135] (ams3-vpn-dhcp135.cisco.com [10.61.64.135]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20559; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:54:24 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <443636CE.2070206@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 10:54:22 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmoll, Carsten" CC: Brian Trammell , Nevil Brownlee , Wijnen@postbox.auckland.ac.nz, Bert , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, david.kessens@nokia.com, dromasca@avaya.com Subject: Re: [ipfix] Re: AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-09.txt References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9A6D@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9A6D@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Carsten, > I fear that the number of lost packets which an IPFIX entity > is able to report might only ever be a *lower limit* for > the number of losses, since e.g. at a time of network downtime > some flows might have been exported using UDP whose > export ended before the network comes up again. In that > case estimating the number of lost packets from skipped > counters in IPFIX messages is not possible. As long as those packets consumed Sequence Numbers, the collector can work out how many packets were lost from the difference between the Sequence Numbers. > In any case wouldn't it make sense to talk about number > of lost messages instead of packets - or is this synonymous? I agree: our terminology should be "lost messages". -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From 709cordy@yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 07 09:36:09 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRr8D-0003uw-Mc for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:36:09 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FRr8A-0004uV-1W for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:36:09 -0400 Received: from [218.5.145.84] (helo=akejb.guiu6ua4.ameritech.net) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FRr2U-0002By-00; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:30:15 -0500 From: "Muriel " <354bret@mackone.freeserve.co.uk> To: Subject: RE: RuAmerica Job - Correspondence Assistant/Representative Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 21:30:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: PjYwUAyrtYxdNsnmGxJ9BPPtiDfsNNM5ZSgM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Dear Sir/Madam, We have proved professional skills to our local customers and work on international markets already. 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Dear Home   O w n e r ,
=  
Your credit doesn't matter to us !
 
If you O W N real   e s t a t e
and want   l M M E D l A = T E   c a s h   to   s p e n d   ANY way you=20 like, or simply wish
to   L O W E R   your monthly   = p a y m e n t s   by a third or more,=20 here are the deals
we have   T O D A Y   :
  =
=20 $ 488 , 000 at a 3 , 67 %   F i x e d - r a t e
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  =
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web site
 
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 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65B6A.DF00CB30-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sun Apr 09 06:09:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSWra-0000Ax-Hb for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 06:09:46 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSWrX-0006Od-3L for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 06:09:46 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FSWle-0005fL-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 05:03:38 -0500 Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.190.11]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FSWlc-0005f7-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 05:03:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7653635887 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtpa.itss.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13316-19 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by groucho.itss.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2EF35BA7 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k39A3YuA012868 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:34 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id k39A3Y05012865 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:34 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from 60-234-152-201.bitstream.orcon.net.nz (60-234-152-201.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.152.201]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:34 +1200 Message-ID: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:34 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 Hi all: We've now had discussion of 'new IPFIX work items' on the list for about two weeks, with strong support for the Implementation Guide, Testing and Redundancy drafts, and clearly expressed support for the IPFIX MIB and Biflows drafts. I've taken Juergen's earlier draft of a new IPFIX charter and reworked it to cover these five drafts. I've also set out what I think are reasonable milestones for them. Please read the PROPOSED new charter carefully, and send your comments on it to the IPFIX list. I'll revise it from time to time over the next few weeks; I'd like to give it to our ADs for approval by IESG fairly soon, let's say "by 30 April 06." One other thing. Dave Plonka intends to stand down as IPFIX co-chair; after discussion among the current IPFIX and PSAMP co-chairs, we suggest that Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek chair the rechartered IPFIX WG. Feedback on that (including suggestions for other possible co-chairs) would also be welcome! Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITSS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand ============================== PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX version 01, 9 Apr 06 ============================== The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data from IPFIX exporters to collectors). The PSAMP working group has specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet records. With both specifications available, several implementers have started building applications using the IPFIX protocol. At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events were fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing ambiguities. In addition, several lessons were learned about how to implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently. The exchange among different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of IPFIX. Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual Internet drafts. The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation, application and usage of the IPFIX protocol. Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP protocol specifications. In scope is the definition of new IPFIX and PSAMP information elements. Specific Goals o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices. They will make suggestions for efficient implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by several implementors. For some implementation choices that the protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines will discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices. Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements; The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for requesting, reviewing and approving new IEs. Deliverables: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports. The basic idea to be followed is very simple. For multiple flow records that all report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX information elements, those values are removed from the flow records and instead reported once for all in a separate record. Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship between flow records and corresponding separate records. Deliverable: 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) o Develop an effective method for exporting information about bidirectional flows ('biflows'). The IP security community has expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows. A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single, best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes to the IPFIX protocol. Deliverable: 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months) Milestones: August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation Guidelines August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX data transfer August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX Bidirectional Flows November 06 Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC November 06 Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC November 06 Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC November 06 Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC March 07 Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for publication as Standards track RFC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From shickymna@em.nttpnet.ne.jp Sun Apr 09 18:54:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSinv-0003bj-Mv for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:54:47 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSinu-00026E-GU for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:54:47 -0400 Received: from 63-224-214-83.spkn.qwest.net ([63.224.214.83] helo=em.nttpnet.ne.jp) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FSiSx-0000Ui-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:33:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65c25$88fa7ae0$afb4a8c0@rln98> Reply-To: "Mnason Shick" From: "Mnason Shick" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: C f IALIS Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:32:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65C04.01E8DAE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?63.224.214.83 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65C04.01E8DAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C I A L h I S =20 V A c L I U M =20 A M B I l E N =20 V I A G e R A =20 X A t N A X =20 http://www.learedow.com ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65C04.01E8DAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
C I A L h I S
 
V A c L I U = M
 
A M B I l E N
 
V I = A G e R A
 
X A t N A X
 
= ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65C04.01E8DAE0-- From 673srinivas@norika-fujiwara.com Mon Apr 10 04:07:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSrPu-0007EA-4W for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:06:34 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FSrKc-0004gn-A4 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:01:07 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FSqr3-0005A0-00; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:30:33 -0500 Received: from ai34u.aauf6.ameritech.net ([210.51.179.137]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k3A7UQxj018134; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:30:31 -0500 Message-Id: <200604100730.k3A7UQxj018134@smtp.doit.wisc.edu> From: "Carlene " <288rutter@zipolite.com> To: Subject: Job - $ 100 per week, please read Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:28:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: p60AuAuzFKd6l3q15danNuWNRFhScwxLvGbg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Hello Ipfix-list I represent a company seeking for part-time financial contractors. I will describe the offer in a few words below: Our company XEX ltd is a trading - financial company is seeking for employees to work with financial correspondence. Requirements: - basic knowledge of computer (email), - free time (approx 1 hour per day), - good communication skills To be our representative on the full-time/part-time basis, either one of the following options is required (a perfect candidate would be eligible for all three): - bank account to withdraw/receive funds, - ability to cash money orders and certified checks (only for USA, UK and DE), We are an international trading company. Our main office is located in Ukraine. The policy of our business is similar to a multi-level telemarketing company, except for our correspondence managers do not sell anything, they are in charge of delivering the financial communication from our customers to our company main office. Money turnover of our company already reached the certain heights and we are in search of regional managers, who are willing to manage our customers database. Salary schedule is contract-based, our employee will receive payments based on their work load. Usually it is about $18000 per year, tax applied. This is a part-time job, our contract worker needs to prove his ability to manage correspondence in order to qualify for higher rates and full-time job status. Our regional employees have good perspectives of increasing their work-load and salary, depending on their efforts. We need two representatives, so please respond fast if you would like to start immediately. In this case, please email for more details. We will email or fax you back an application form. Sincerely, Annie Gagne Please reply to: infoalex@gala.net Team manager XEX ltd From goodreauodem@drmcdougall.com Mon Apr 10 17:10:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT3er-000757-Tl for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:10:49 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT3eq-0004Gc-Ls for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:10:49 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FT3a2-0002TP-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:05:50 -0500 Received: from drmcdougall.com (87-248-167-39.starnet.md [87.248.167.39] (may be forged)) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3AL5mtf026950 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:05:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65ce2$875f4590$72baa8c0@wrj32> Reply-To: "Demetrius Goodreau" From: "Demetrius Goodreau" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: VIAG p RA Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:05:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CC1.004DA590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CC1.004DA590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable V I A G i R A =20 A M t B I E N =20 V A L I s U M =20 C I A L u I S =20 X A N r A X =20 http://www.misivalizerus.com ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CC1.004DA590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
V I A G i R A
 
A M t B I E = N
 
V A L I s U M
 
C I = A L u I S
 
X A N r A X
 
http://www.misivalizerus.com ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CC1.004DA590-- From dejongi@amot.com Mon Apr 10 18:22:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT4m2-0004LV-H0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:22:18 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT4m1-00085i-6P for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:22:18 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FT4gN-0006gw-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:16:27 -0500 Received: from amot.com ([85.21.51.2]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3AMGPZ3002994 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:16:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65cec$628a0ed0$71d7a8c0@ohf98> Reply-To: "Jaan Dejong" From: "Jaan Dejong" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: hynuh news Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:16:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CCA.DB786ED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CCA.DB786ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable D n ear Home O x wne e r ,=20 =20 Your c b red t it doesn't matter to us ! If you OW r N real e a st i at m e=20 and want I o MMED z IAT a E c j ash to s g pe{n v d ANY way you like, or simply wish=20 to LO o WER your monthly pa y yment p s by a third or more, here are the de r als=20 we have T p OD t AY :=20 =20 $ 4 t 88 , 000 at a 3 v , 67% f b ixed - ra l te=20 $ 3 g 72 , 000 at a 3 , q 90% va e riab e le - rat n e=20 $ 4 h 92 , 000 at a 3 , a 21% in c teres n t - only=20 $ 24 a 8 , 000 at a 3 , 3 r 6% f f ixed - rat w e=20 $ 1 i 98 , 000 at a 3 c , 55% variabl i e - rat r e=20 =20 H b urry, when these deaI d s are gone, they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about app r rova o l, your cr t edi a t will not d o isqu b alify you !=20 =20 Vi v si v t our si c te =20 =20 Sincerely, Jaan Dejong=20 =20 A w pprova t l Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CCA.DB786ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
D n ear Home O x wne e r ,
 
Your c b red t it doesn't matter to us !=20 If you OW r N real e a st i at m e
and want I o MMED z IAT a E c j ash to s g pe{n v d ANY=20 way you like, or simply wish
to LO o WER your monthly pa y yment p s=20 by a third or more, here are the de r als
we have T p OD t AY :
 
$ 4 t 88 , 000 at a 3 v , 67% f b ixed - ra l te
$ 3 g 72 , 000 at a 3 , q 90% va e riab e le - rat n e
$ 4 h 92 , 000 at a 3 , a 21% in c teres n t - only
$ 24 a 8 , 000 at a 3 , 3 r 6% f f ixed - rat w e
$ 1 i 98 , 000 at a 3 c , 55% variabl i e - rat r e
 
H b urry, when these deaI d s are gone, they are gone !
 
Don't worry about app r rova o l, your cr t edi a t will=20 not d o isqu b alify you !
 
=20 Vi v si v t our si c te
 
Sincerely, Jaan Dejong
 
A w pprova t l Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65CCA.DB786ED0-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 11 04:45:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTEVR-0003H3-EE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:45:49 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTEVO-0007P7-01 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:45:49 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTEPz-0001KT-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:40:11 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTEPx-0001KI-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:40:09 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.171] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48AB1BAC4D; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:36:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:39:25 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Nevil Brownlee , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Message-ID: <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b8f3559805f7873076212d6f63ee803e Hi Nevil, Please find two comments inline. Thanks, Juergen --On 09.04.2006 22:03 Uhr +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi all: > > We've now had discussion of 'new IPFIX work items' on the list for > about two weeks, with strong support for the Implementation Guide, > Testing and Redundancy drafts, and clearly expressed support for the > IPFIX MIB and Biflows drafts. I've taken Juergen's earlier draft > of a new IPFIX charter and reworked it to cover these five drafts. > I've also set out what I think are reasonable milestones for them. > > Please read the PROPOSED new charter carefully, and send your comments > on it to the IPFIX list. I'll revise it from time to time over the next > few weeks; I'd like to give it to our ADs for approval by IESG fairly > soon, let's say "by 30 April 06." > > One other thing. Dave Plonka intends to stand down as IPFIX co-chair; > after discussion among the current IPFIX and PSAMP co-chairs, we suggest > that Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek chair the rechartered IPFIX WG. > Feedback on that (including suggestions for other possible co-chairs) > would also be welcome! > > Cheers, Nevil > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITSS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > ============================== > PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX version 01, 9 Apr 06 > ============================== > > The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to > describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data > from IPFIX exporters to collectors). The PSAMP working group has > specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet > records. With both specifications available, several implementers have > started building applications using the IPFIX protocol. > > At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol > implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events were > fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing > ambiguities. In addition, several lessons were learned about how to > implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently. The exchange among > different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of > IPFIX. Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual > Internet drafts. > > The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current > practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation, > application and usage of the IPFIX protocol. > > Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP > protocol specifications. In scope is the definition of new IPFIX > and PSAMP information elements. > > Specific Goals > > o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences > gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability > testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and > exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of > IPFIX devices. I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. What about just adding "collecting processes": OLD "The guidelines will give recommendations for integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." NEW "The guidelines will give recommendations for integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." > They will make suggestions for efficient > implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of > the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by > several implementors. For some implementation choices that the > protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines will > discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices. > Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements; > The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for requesting, > reviewing and approving new IEs. > Deliverables: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be an Informational RFC > (6 months) > 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) > > o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX > protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports. The basic idea > to be followed is very simple. For multiple flow records that all > report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX > information elements, those values are removed from the flow > records and instead reported once for all in a separate record. > Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and > only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship > between flow records and corresponding separate records. > Deliverable: > 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) > > o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics > of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this > work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by > individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: > 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) > > o Develop an effective method for exporting information about > bidirectional flows ('biflows'). The IP security community has > expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows. > A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to > support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single, > best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes > to the IPFIX protocol. > Deliverable: > 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months) > > > Milestones: > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation Guidelines > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX data transfer > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX Bidirectional Flows For some documents we should easily be able to have initial versions already before the next meeting. I suggest replacing for these three milestones "August 06" with "June 06". We have quite mature individual I-Ds for these three issues. For the MIB we do not yet have an individual I-D, so August should be fine. For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best-practice method for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for jointly selecting one. Also here, August should be fine. Thanks, Juergen > November 06 Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > > March 07 Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for > publication as Standards track RFC > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From valda@clemson.edu Tue Apr 11 12:06:07 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTLNX-0005Ci-E6 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:06:07 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTLNW-0007mW-Ul for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:06:07 -0400 Received: from [221.221.77.25] (helo=clemson.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTKxh-00006W-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:39:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65d7e$12150df0$9c8aa8c0@pfs23> Reply-To: "Valda Caceres" From: "Valda Caceres" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: eonej news Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:39:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65D5C.8B036DF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?221.221.77.25 X-RBL-Warning: (dnsbl.njabl.org) open proxy -- 1144762546 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3d7f2f6612d734db849efa86ea692407 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65D5C.8B036DF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable De x ar Home Ow h ne k r ,=20 =20 Your c q redi p t doesn't matter to us !=20 =20 If you OW w N real e q st x at y e and want=20 I w MME w DIAT i E c u ash to s e pen r d ANY way you like,=20 or simply wish to L z OWER your monthly=20 p w ayme l nts by a third or more,=20 here are the dea j ls we have T g OD c AY :=20 =20 $ 4 t 88 , 000 at a 3 q , 67% fi j xed - ra a te=20 $ 37 o 2 , 000 at a 3 i , 90% v b aria p ble - ra r te=20 $ 49 n 2 , 000 at a 3 , g 21% in v teres f t - only=20 $ 2 m 48 , 000 at a 3 , 3 a 6% fi x xed - ra r te=20 $ 1 y 98 , 000 at a 3 m , 55% vari z able - ra o te=20 =20 H o urry, when these d e eals are gone,=20 they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about app p rov d al, your=20 c k redi y t will not d o isqual p ify you !=20 =20 Vi u si q t our si k te =20 =20 Sincerely, Valda Caceres=20 =20 A a ppro s val Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65D5C.8B036DF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
De x ar Home Ow h ne k r ,
 
Your c q redi p t doesn't matter to us !
 
If you OW w N real e q st x at y e and want
=20 I w MME w DIAT i E c u ash to s e pen r d ANY way you like,
or simply wish to L z OWER your monthly
=20 p w ayme l nts by a third or more,
=20 here are the dea j ls we have T g OD c AY :
 
$ 4 t 88 , 000 at a 3 q , 67% fi j xed - ra a te
$ 37 o 2 , 000 at a 3 i , 90% v b aria p ble - ra r te
$ 49 n 2 , 000 at a 3 , g 21% in v teres f t - only
$ 2 m 48 , 000 at a 3 , 3 a 6% fi x xed - ra r te
$ 1 y 98 , 000 at a 3 m , 55% vari z able - ra o te
 
H o urry, when these d e eals are gone,
they are gone !
 
Don't worry about app p rov d al, your
c k redi y t will=20 not d o isqual p ify you !
 
=20 Vi u si q t our si k te
 
Sincerely, Valda Caceres
 
A a ppro s val Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65D5C.8B036DF0-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 11 14:57:27 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTO3L-00007g-VK for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTO3L-0005UV-Ik for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTNxk-0005JU-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:51:40 -0500 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.10]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTNxj-0005JF-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:51:39 -0500 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k3BIpbjM012340 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:51:37 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k3BIpAGJ012297 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:51:10 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k3BIp3hK012293; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.237.249.43] (vpn-10-25-4-10.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.10]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k3BIp3Kw013241; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:51:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-4--1029468065" Message-Id: <0244D644-3005-47C9-AF9E-AB0891C30A41@cert.org> Cc: Nevil Brownlee , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:50:56 -0400 To: Juergen Quittek X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 501044f827b673024f6a4cb1d46e67d2 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-4--1029468065 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Juergen and Nevil, In general, I agree with the content of the proposed charter. Comments, and comments on comments, inline: Regards, Brian >> ============================== >> PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX version 01, 9 Apr 06 >> ============================== >> >> The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to >> describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data >> from IPFIX exporters to collectors). The PSAMP working group has >> specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet >> records. With both specifications available, several implementers >> have >> started building applications using the IPFIX protocol. >> >> At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol >> implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events >> were >> fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing >> ambiguities. In addition, several lessons were learned about how to >> implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently. The exchange >> among >> different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of >> IPFIX. Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual >> Internet drafts. >> >> The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current >> practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation, >> application and usage of the IPFIX protocol. >> >> Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP >> protocol specifications. In scope is the definition of new IPFIX >> and PSAMP information elements. >> >> Specific Goals >> >> o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences >> gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability >> testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >> IPFIX devices. > > I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX > messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. > What about > just adding "collecting processes": > OLD > "The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and > exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of > IPFIX devices." > NEW > "The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, > exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet > flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." As the individual drafts in question presently do cover Collecting Processes, agreed. >> They will make suggestions for efficient >> implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of >> the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by >> several implementors. For some implementation choices that the >> protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines >> will >> discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices. >> Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements; >> The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for >> requesting, >> reviewing and approving new IEs. >> Deliverables: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be >> an Informational RFC >> (6 months) >> 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) >> >> o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX >> protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports. The basic idea >> to be followed is very simple. For multiple flow records that all >> report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX >> information elements, those values are removed from the flow >> records and instead reported once for all in a separate record. >> Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and >> only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship >> between flow records and corresponding separate records. >> Deliverable: >> 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) Should be "Reducing Redundancy". >> o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics >> of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this >> work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by >> individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: >> 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) Should be Standards Track. >> o Develop an effective method for exporting information about >> bidirectional flows ('biflows'). The IP security community has >> expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows. >> A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to >> support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single, >> best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes >> to the IPFIX protocol. >> Deliverable: >> 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months) Should be Informational. >> >> Milestones: >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation >> Guidelines >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in >> IPFIX data transfer >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX >> Bidirectional Flows > > For some documents we should easily be able to have initial > versions already before > the next meeting. I suggest replacing for these three milestones > "August 06" with > "June 06". We have quite mature individual I-Ds for these three > issues. > > For the MIB we do not yet have an individual I-D, so August should > be fine. Agreed, and agreed. > For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best- > practice method > for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for > jointly selecting > one. Also here, August should be fine. For what it's worth, we were planning on attempting to resolve the information element assignment question with discussion over the next couple of months on the list, and publishing a new revision of the biflow draft containing this resolution to the information element assignment issue by June, in time for Montreal. -01 as is advances a single approach to single-record biflow encoding, in line with comments from Dallas. So, June would be acceptable, as well. >> November 06 Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for >> publication as Informational RFC >> >> November 06 Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for >> publication as Informational RFC >> >> November 06 Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for >> publication as Informational RFC >> >> November 06 Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for >> publication as Informational RFC >> >> >> March 07 Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for >> publication as Standards track RFC >> --Apple-Mail-4--1029468065 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEO/qV4/8LCZ4pwvYRAh8dAJoCRIOWnjTW8nN1AQ0RhyfI56IqOQCfVV9p Ql8iw0su/AKOgsIqdi1Laq4= =oIsH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-4--1029468065-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 11 17:02:23 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQ0F-00085m-5L for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:02:23 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQ0D-00031Q-T3 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:02:23 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTPuE-0007np-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:56:10 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTPuD-0007n7-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:56:09 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2006 22:56:09 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3BKu736023482; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:56:07 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.157] ([10.58.48.157]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21043; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:56:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <443C17E3.4010203@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:56:03 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, Elisa Boschi CC: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 IPFIXers, >> o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences >> gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability >> testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >> IPFIX devices. > > > I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX > messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. What about > just adding "collecting processes": > OLD > "The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and > exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of > IPFIX devices." > NEW > "The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, > exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet > flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." Measurement Process is a PSAMP term, and isn't used at all in IPFIX. Section 3.10 of [psamp-framework] ("PSAMP and IPFIX Interaction") says: The PSAMP Measurement Process can be viewed as analogous to the IPFIX metering process. We should be careful to use the right terminology. In section 3.3.3 of the Implimentation Guidelines draft, "measurement processes" should be "Measurement Process" because it's an IPFIX draft. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 11 18:03:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQxQ-0005G2-5S for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:03:32 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTQxO-0005u2-Tv for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:03:32 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTQsy-0004n4-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:58:56 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTQsy-0004mx-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:58:56 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2006 23:58:55 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3BLwr36002876; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:58:54 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.157] ([10.58.48.157]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28681; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:58:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <443C2699.6070400@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:58:49 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu CC: Juergen Quittek , Elisa Boschi , Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> <443C17E3.4010203@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <443C17E3.4010203@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Paul Aitken wrote: > In section 3.3.3 of the Implimentation Guidelines draft, "measurement > processes" should be "Measurement Process" because it's an IPFIX draft. Duh! "Metering Process". -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From miticay@ck-karavela.cz Wed Apr 12 03:54:39 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTaBT-0002Fi-UF for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:54:39 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTaBT-0002ig-J9 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:54:39 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTZiE-0001TG-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:24:26 -0500 Received: from ck-karavela.cz (ZU203007.ppp.dion.ne.jp [59.133.203.7]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3C7OO8R028197 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:24:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65e02$17caccb0$e9c8a8c0@qjl37> Reply-To: "Mitica Gaeth" From: "Mitica Gaeth" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: eecau news Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:24:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65DE0.90B92CB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65DE0.90B92CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable De i ar Home O n wne y r ,=20 =20 Your c f re d di n t doesn't matter to us !=20 =20 If you OW x N real e m st w at b e and want=20 I y MM f EDI a AT k E c v as d h to s w pe g nd ANY way you like,=20 or simply wish to L l OWE k R your monthly=20 pa r yme n nt q s by a third or more,=20 here are the de k al y s we have T r ODA u Y :=20 =20 $ 48 x 8 , 000 at a 3 , p 67% f q ix v ed - r w at t e=20 $ 37 c 2 , 000 at a 3 , w 90% v e ari l ab u le - r q at e e=20 $ 49 h 2 , 000 at a 3 , 2 z 1% i l nte s res x t - only=20 $ 24 t 8 , 000 at a 3 , 3 h 6% f b ixe h d - r o at t e=20 $ 19 y 8 , 000 at a 3 , o 55% v w ari f abl z e - r t at w e=20 =20 Hu v rr a y, when these d k ea v ls are gone,=20 they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about ap a pr h ova y l, your=20 c c re w di d t will not d e isqualif k y you !=20 =20 V n is v it our s t ite =20 =20 Sincerely, Mitica Gaeth=20 =20 A n ppr p ov w al Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65DE0.90B92CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
De i ar Home O n wne y r ,
 
Your c f re d di n t doesn't matter to us !
 
If you OW x N real e m st w at b e and want
=20 I y MM f EDI a AT k E c v as d h to s w pe g nd ANY way you like,
or simply wish to L l OWE k R your monthly
=20 pa r yme n nt q s by a third or more,
=20 here are the de k al y s we have T r ODA u Y :
 
$ 48 x 8 , 000 at a 3 , p 67% f q ix v ed - r w at t e
$ 37 c 2 , 000 at a 3 , w 90% v e ari l ab u le - r q at e e
$ 49 h 2 , 000 at a 3 , 2 z 1% i l nte s res x t - only
$ 24 t 8 , 000 at a 3 , 3 h 6% f b ixe h d - r o at t e
$ 19 y 8 , 000 at a 3 , o 55% v w ari f abl z e - r t at w e
 
Hu v rr a y, when these d k ea v ls are gone,
they are gone !
 
Don't worry about ap a pr h ova y l, your
c c re w di d t will=20 not d e isqualif k y you !
 
=20 V n is v it our s t ite
 
Sincerely, Mitica Gaeth
 
A n ppr p ov w al Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65DE0.90B92CB0-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 12 04:30:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTajq-0002Ib-Ht for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:30:10 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTajp-0004eo-AE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:30:10 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTaff-0004MG-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:25:51 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTafe-0004M5-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:25:50 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k3C8Pbn14308; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:25:38 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:25:39 +0200 Message-ID: <804B13F8F3D94A4AB18B9B01ACB68FA11371D2@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Thread-Index: AcZds4KazDG8H2ZNQbm/CrLI1XIHzQAUvrWg From: "Tanja Zseby" To: "Paul Aitken" , Cc: "Juergen Quittek" , "Boschi, Elisa" , "Nevil Brownlee" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 > -----Original Message----- > From: majordomo listserver=20 > [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Aitken > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:59 PM > To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > Cc: Juergen Quittek; Boschi, Elisa; Nevil Brownlee > Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) >=20 > Paul Aitken wrote: >=20 > > In section 3.3.3 of the Implimentation Guidelines draft,=20 > "measurement=20 > > processes" should be "Measurement Process" because it's an=20 > IPFIX draft. >=20 > Duh! "Metering Process". And we also agreed in PSAMP to use the IPFIX definition metering process instead of measurement process. Regards, Tanja >=20 > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >=20 > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help"=20 > in message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say=20 > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >=20 >=20 -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 12 09:09:57 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTf6b-0003Zy-NY for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:09:57 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTf6Z-000521-6K for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:09:57 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTei9-0002MM-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:44:41 -0500 Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.219]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTei8-0002MB-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:44:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (tranquillity.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.222]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F37D9384; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:44:39 +0200 (MEST) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.217]) by localhost (tranquillity [129.132.2.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25516-01-9; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:44:38 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (84-73-47-173.dclient.hispeed.ch [84.73.47.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCF8D9388; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:44:38 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <443CF776.80500@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:49:58 +0200 From: Elisa Boschi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek Cc: Nevil Brownlee , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ee.ethz.ch Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Dear all, I do agree with the proposed charter. Just a few comments: >> o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences >> gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability >> testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >> IPFIX devices. > > > I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX > messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. What > about > just adding "collecting processes": yes, "collecting processes" should be added since they're addressed in the draft > NEW > "The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, > exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet > flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." > agreed. I've also corrected the Guidelines to mention just metering, and not measurement, processes (thanks Paul!) >> Milestones: >> >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation Guidelines >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX >> data transfer >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB >> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX Bidirectional >> Flows > > > For some documents we should easily be able to have initial versions > already before > the next meeting. I suggest replacing for these three milestones > "August 06" with > "June 06". We have quite mature individual I-Ds for these three issues. I agree. The reducing redundancy and implementation guidelines drafts are indeed quite mature and should be published in June. cheers, Elisa -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From markete@lab-leas.fr Wed Apr 12 17:20:43 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTmlX-00071a-RS for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:20:43 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTmlX-0000Hw-Gn for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:20:43 -0400 Received: from 87-196-133-75.net.novis.pt ([87.196.133.75] helo=lab-leas.fr) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTmbs-0001Wf-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:10:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65e75$7fff9a40$5bf0a8c0@yaa34> Reply-To: "Marketta Kershner" From: "Marketta Kershner" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: aurutu news Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:10:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65E53.F8EDFA40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fb93e867a11a29ac1dc5018706b412ac This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65E53.F8EDFA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dea b=20 r Home Ow q=20 ne t=20 r ,=20 =20 Your c t=20 re e=20 di h=20 t doesn't matter to us !=20 =20 If you OW v=20 N real e g=20 st a=20 at u=20 e and want=20 I l=20 MM u=20 EDI v=20 AT w=20 E c k=20 as h=20 h to s l=20 pen e=20 d ANY way you like,=20 or simply wish to L y=20 OWE q=20 R your monthly=20 pa c=20 ym l=20 ent v=20 s by a third or more,=20 here are the d l=20 eal i=20 s we have T g=20 OD f=20 AY :=20 =20 $ 4 n=20 88 , 000 at a 3 ,=20 c=20 67 % f k=20 ixe g=20 d - r c=20 at i=20 e=20 $ 37 t=20 2 , 000 at a 3 g=20 , 90 % v k=20 ari o=20 ab r=20 le - r n=20 at u=20 e=20 $ 49 d=20 2 , 000 at a 3 , 2 v=20 1 % i v=20 nte d=20 res m=20 t - only=20 $ 2 s=20 48 , 000 at a 3 ,=20 v=20 36 % f k=20 ixe y=20 d - r i=20 at v=20 e=20 $ 19 e=20 8 , 000 at a 3 , x=20 55 % v d=20 ari u=20 abl t=20 e - r j=20 at f=20 e=20 =20 V =20 k=20 isi a=20 t our s x=20 ite =20 Hu r=20 rr m=20 y, when these d v=20 eal v=20 s are gone,=20 they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about a n=20 ppr x=20 ova j=20 l, your=20 c e=20 re r=20 di b=20 t will not d z=20 isqualif h=20 y you !=20 =20 Sincerely, Marketta Kershner=20 =20 A g=20 pp c=20 rov u=20 al Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65E53.F8EDFA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65E53.FBE1BED0-- From heinri@there.net Thu Apr 13 03:57:24 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTwhg-00041v-Si for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:57:24 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTwhf-0002ZH-Kt for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:57:24 -0400 Received: from 74.red-83-44-106.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.44.106.74] helo=there.net) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTwFF-00047p-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:28:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65ecb$c796d200$4e99a8c0@juf13> Reply-To: "Reggie Heinrichs" From: "Reggie Heinrichs" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: your news Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:27:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65EAA.4087A300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?83.44.106.74 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65EAA.4087A300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 X A n N A X=20 =20 V A L I z U M=20 =20 A M B i I E N=20 =20 C I A L h I S=20 =20 V I u A G R A=20 =20 http://www.toerblocs.com ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65EAA.4087A300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65EAA.4087A300-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 13 06:33:11 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTz8R-0005AN-BE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:33:11 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FTz8Q-0007gc-3Z for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:33:11 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTz4U-0007EF-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:29:06 -0500 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FTz4T-0007E9-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:29:05 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-151.nttv6.com [192.47.163.151]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3DASxOE076365; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:29:00 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:29:03 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu In-Reply-To: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Message-Id: <20060413192037.D94C.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.12.01 [ja] Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Hi all, I agreed with new charter. About IPFIX MIB, I would like to continue to work as far as possible. Thanks, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:03:34 +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics > of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this > work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by > individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: > 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5652 -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From daniel@punkass.com Thu Apr 13 15:53:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FU7so-0004TP-2w for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:53:38 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FU7sm-0000k0-R5 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:53:38 -0400 Received: from c-67-181-101-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.181.101.61]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FU7SH-0000jV-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:26:14 -0500 Message-ID: <235601c65f15$6b1d9f2b$d90b6ccc@punkass.com> From: brandyn jerome To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: New part-time vacancies available in your area Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:15:20 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express V6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?67.181.101.61 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 RGVhciBBcHBsaWNhbnQsCgpPdXIgY29tcGFueSBsb2NhdGVkIGluIFNhbGluYXMsQ0EgaXMg aGlyaW5nIG5vdyBhY3Jvc3MgdGhlIFVuaXRlZCAKU3RhdGVzIGFuZCBDYW5hZGEuCgpBdmFp bGFibGUgdmFjYW5jaWVzKHBhcnQtdGltZSBhbmQgZnVsbC10aW1lKToKCi0gQ291cmllcnMo JDgtMTQgUGVyIEhvdXIpIC0gVmFjYW5jaWVzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbiA4NyBjaXRpZXMgYWNy b3NzIAp0aGUgVS5TLiBhbmQgQ2FuYWRhCi0gQ2FsbCBDZW50ZXIgT3BlcmF0b3JzKCBXb21l biB3aXRoIHBsZWFzYW50IHZvaWNlIDsgJDgtMTIgUGVyIEhvdXIvIApvdXRnb2luZyh2ZXJp ZmljYXRpb24pIGNhbGxzLgotIEZpbGUgTWFuYWdlcnMoMjAgdmFjYW5jaWVzIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSkKLSBQYXltZW50IFByb2Nlc3NpbmcgQXNzaXN0YW50cy9NYW5hZ2VycyggYXZhaWxhYmxl IG5hdGlvbi13aWRlKQotIEFuZCBtb3JlIHBhcnQtdGltZSB2YWNhbmNpZXMgaW4gdGhlIFVT KGV4Y2VwdCBBbGFza2EpIGFuZCBDYW5hZGEKRW50cnkgbGV2ZWwgY2FuZGlkYXRlcy9yZXRp cmVlcyBhcmUgd2VsY29tZS4KVHJhaW5pbmcgcHJvdmlkZWQuCgpQbGVhc2UgdmlzaXQgb3Vy IHZhY2FuY2llcyBwYWdlL29ubGluZSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gZm9ybSB0byBmaW5kIG1vcmUg CnZhY2FuY2llcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4geW91ciBhcmVhOgpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZpZGVsaXR5 LXVzYS5jb20vcmVnaXN0ZXJ2YWMuaHRtCgoKQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLApBbWFuZGEgUm9ja3dl bGwsCkZpZGVsaXR5IEFsbGlhbmNlIExMQy4= From cancappe@chu-toulouse.fr Fri Apr 14 06:51:26 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FULte-0006oC-5R for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:51:26 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FULtd-0004pw-QP for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:51:26 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FULNC-00036j-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:17:54 -0500 Received: from chu-toulouse.fr (adsl-67-117-51-254.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.117.51.254]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3EAHqXk002706 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c65fac$a7865490$eac9a8c0@liu75> Reply-To: "Candace Cappello" From: "Candace Cappello" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: beyowo news Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:17:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65F8B.2076FE80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 249cd1efd3d5e0d09114abe826a41235 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C65F8B.2076FE80 Content-Type: text/plain; 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66135.A69D3780-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sun Apr 16 16:41:28 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3k-0003Rc-8N for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:28 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3i-0006ea-QO for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:28 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxC-0002aA-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:42 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxA-0002Zs-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:40 -0500 Received: from [192.168.178.21] (p5089C62A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.198.42]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE0A1BAC4D; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:30:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:20:40 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Brian Trammell Cc: Nevil Brownlee , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Message-ID: <78C59DE4D5D4629A8011079E@753F3B888A9969457862729D> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b Hi Brian, Thanks for the comments. Please find a few replies inline. --On 11.04.2006 14:50 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote: > Juergen and Nevil, > > In general, I agree with the content of the proposed charter. Comments, and comments on comments, inline: > > Regards, > > Brian > >>> ============================== >>> PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX version 01, 9 Apr 06 >>> ============================== >>> >>> The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to >>> describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data >>> from IPFIX exporters to collectors). The PSAMP working group has >>> specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet >>> records. With both specifications available, several implementers >>> have >>> started building applications using the IPFIX protocol. >>> >>> At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol >>> implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events >>> were >>> fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing >>> ambiguities. In addition, several lessons were learned about how to >>> implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently. The exchange >>> among >>> different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of >>> IPFIX. Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual >>> Internet drafts. >>> >>> The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current >>> practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation, >>> application and usage of the IPFIX protocol. >>> >>> Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP >>> protocol specifications. In scope is the definition of new IPFIX >>> and PSAMP information elements. >>> >>> Specific Goals >>> >>> o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences >>> gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability >>> testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for >>> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >>> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >>> IPFIX devices. >> >> I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX >> messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. >> What about >> just adding "collecting processes": >> OLD >> "The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >> IPFIX devices." >> NEW >> "The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, >> exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet >> flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." > > As the individual drafts in question presently do cover Collecting > Processes, agreed. > >>> They will make suggestions for efficient >>> implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of >>> the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by >>> several implementors. For some implementation choices that the >>> protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines >>> will >>> discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices. >>> Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements; >>> The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for >>> requesting, >>> reviewing and approving new IEs. >>> Deliverables: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be >>> an Informational RFC >>> (6 months) >>> 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) >>> >>> o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX >>> protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports. The basic idea >>> to be followed is very simple. For multiple flow records that all >>> report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX >>> information elements, those values are removed from the flow >>> records and instead reported once for all in a separate record. >>> Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and >>> only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship >>> between flow records and corresponding separate records. >>> Deliverable: >>> 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) > > Should be "Reducing Redundancy". > >>> o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics >>> of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this >>> work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by >>> individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: >>> 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) > > Should be Standards Track. Yes, of course. >>> o Develop an effective method for exporting information about >>> bidirectional flows ('biflows'). The IP security community has >>> expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows. >>> A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to >>> support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single, >>> best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes >>> to the IPFIX protocol. >>> Deliverable: >>> 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months) > > Should be Informational. Fine. >>> >>> Milestones: >>> >>> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation >>> Guidelines >>> >>> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing >>> >>> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in >>> IPFIX data transfer >>> >>> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB >>> >>> August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX >>> Bidirectional Flows >> >> For some documents we should easily be able to have initial >> versions already before >> the next meeting. I suggest replacing for these three milestones >> "August 06" with >> "June 06". We have quite mature individual I-Ds for these three >> issues. >> >> For the MIB we do not yet have an individual I-D, so August should >> be fine. > > Agreed, and agreed. > >> For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best- >> practice method >> for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for >> jointly selecting >> one. Also here, August should be fine. > > For what it's worth, we were planning on attempting to resolve the > information element assignment question with discussion over the next > couple of months on the list, and publishing a new revision of the > biflow draft containing this resolution to the information element > assignment issue by June, in time for Montreal. -01 as is advances a > single approach to single-record biflow encoding, in line with > comments from Dallas. So, June would be acceptable, as well. There is no problem with submitting the -00 version of the WG document ahead of the planned schedule. But since we still have some controversial issue left, I would prefer to be careful with milestones. Thanks, Juergen >>> November 06 Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for >>> publication as Informational RFC >>> >>> November 06 Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for >>> publication as Informational RFC >>> >>> November 06 Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for >>> publication as Informational RFC >>> >>> November 06 Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for >>> publication as Informational RFC >>> >>> >>> March 07 Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for >>> publication as Standards track RFC >>> > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sun Apr 16 16:41:36 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3s-0003Ro-VT for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:36 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3s-0006ed-OR for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:36 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxC-0002aE-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:43 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxB-0002Zw-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:41 -0500 Received: from [192.168.178.21] (p5089C62A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.198.42]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9721BAC9E; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:30:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:21:51 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Cc: Elisa Boschi , Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <443C2699.6070400@cisco.com> References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <58AD34CA1BE4E11CD4CD5919@[10.1.1.171]> <443C17E3.4010203@cisco.com> <443C2699.6070400@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 --On 11.04.2006 22:58 Uhr +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Paul Aitken wrote: > >> In section 3.3.3 of the Implimentation Guidelines draft, "measurement >> processes" should be "Measurement Process" because it's an IPFIX draft. > > Duh! "Metering Process". Looks like this happens quite easily :-) Juergen > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sun Apr 16 16:41:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3t-0003S0-78 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:37 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVE3s-0006ee-VY for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:41:37 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxC-0002aB-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:42 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVDxA-0002Zv-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:34:40 -0500 Received: from [192.168.178.21] (p5089C62A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.198.42]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346EF1BAC99; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:30:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:20:47 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu, Elisa Boschi Cc: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Hi Paul, You are completely right. We should replace 'measurement process' by 'metering process'. Also in PSAMP we started to use this term. Thanks, Juergen --On 11.04.2006 21:56 Uhr +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > IPFIXers, > >>> o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences >>> gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability >>> testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for >>> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >>> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >>> IPFIX devices. >> >> >> I suggest that the guidelines should no just cover the sender of IPFIX >> messages, but also the collection process on the receiver side. What about >> just adding "collecting processes": >> OLD >> "The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and >> exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of >> IPFIX devices." >> NEW >> "The guidelines will give recommendations for >> integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, >> exporting processes, and collecting processes into the packet >> flow at different kinds of IPFIX devices." > > Measurement Process is a PSAMP term, and isn't used at all in IPFIX. > > Section 3.10 of [psamp-framework] ("PSAMP and IPFIX Interaction") says: > > The PSAMP Measurement Process can be viewed as analogous to the > IPFIX metering process. > > We should be careful to use the right terminology. > > In section 3.3.3 of the Implimentation Guidelines draft, "measurement processes" > should be "Measurement Process" because it's an IPFIX draft. > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Sun Apr 16 17:02:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVEO9-00041o-0K for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:02:33 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVEO7-0007Ej-P0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:02:32 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVEJ4-0004PS-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:57:18 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVEJ3-0004PN-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:57:17 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k3GKvEq3027634 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:57:15 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k3GKuEOk027604 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:56:14 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k3GKuEm5027602; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.117.0.35] (vpn-10-25-4-8.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.8]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k3GKuD7C015462; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:56:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: <78C59DE4D5D4629A8011079E@753F3B888A9969457862729D> References: <78C59DE4D5D4629A8011079E@753F3B888A9969457862729D> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-2--589954470" Message-Id: <15C5EDC4-8C5C-4F4B-828C-BBCD87556442@cert.org> Cc: Nevil Brownlee , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:56:09 -0400 To: Juergen Quittek X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-2--589954470 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Juergen, Understood. Either date is fine from our point of view, but of course an August target is eminently easier to meet than a June one. :) Thanks, Brian On Apr 12, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best- >>> practice method >>> for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for >>> jointly selecting >>> one. Also here, August should be fine. >> >> For what it's worth, we were planning on attempting to resolve the >> information element assignment question with discussion over the next >> couple of months on the list, and publishing a new revision of the >> biflow draft containing this resolution to the information element >> assignment issue by June, in time for Montreal. -01 as is advances a >> single approach to single-record biflow encoding, in line with >> comments from Dallas. So, June would be acceptable, as well. > > There is no problem with submitting the -00 version of the WG document > ahead of the planned schedule. But since we still have some > controversial > issue left, I would prefer to be careful with milestones. --Apple-Mail-2--589954470 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEQq9s4/8LCZ4pwvYRAuOHAJ0Z0nVAokR8SNM/13P1vRnGeys3LgCfb98N 9uG1Pk51FmuYoqTkESE2iDA= =c09p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-2--589954470-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From rams@gemaca.com Mon Apr 17 13:36:48 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVXea-0004Hy-1N for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:36:48 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVXeY-0002mt-Mi for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:36:48 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVXBz-0000C5-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:07:15 -0500 Received: from gemaca.com (119.Red-83-37-10.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.37.10.119]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3HH7B0T009656 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:07:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66241$435f8e90$cebba8c0@nxh33> Reply-To: "Ramsey Fitzwater" From: "Ramsey Fitzwater" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: news Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:06:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6621F.BC4DEE90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6621F.BC4DEE90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable D s ear Home O y wne p r ,=20 =20 Your c b redi f t doesn't matter to us ! If you O v WN real e t st b at p e=20 and want IM k MED t IA t TE c o ash to s i pen i d ANY way you like, or simply wish=20 to LO p WER your monthly p u aym u ents by a third or more, here are the dea r ls=20 we have T s ODA v Y :=20 =20 $ 4 x 88 , 000 at a 3 u , 67% fi c xed - rat h e=20 $ 37 b 2 , 000 at a 3 , 9 u 0% va b riabl z e - rat m e=20 $ 4 a 92 , 000 at a 3 , h 21% int v ere e st - only=20 $ 2 j 48 , 000 at a 3 n , 36% f i ixed - ra n te=20 $ 19 p 8 , 000 at a 3 , o 55% v t ariable - ra y te=20 =20 Hurr e y, when these d i eaIs are gone, they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about ap v pro h val, your c v red a it will not di f squali g fy you !=20 =20 V h isi e t o y ur site =20 =20 Sincerely, Ramsey Fitzwater=20 =20 Ap n pro f val Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6621F.BC4DEE90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
D s ear Home O y wne p r ,
 
Your c b redi f t doesn't matter to us !=20 If you O v WN real e t st b at p e
and want IM k MED t IA t TE c o ash to s i pen i d ANY=20 way you like, or simply wish
to LO p WER your monthly p u aym u ents=20 by a third or more, here are the dea r ls
we have T s ODA v Y :
 
$ 4 x 88 , 000 at a 3 u , 67% fi c xed - rat h e
$ 37 b 2 , 000 at a 3 , 9 u 0% va b riabl z e - rat m e
$ 4 a 92 , 000 at a 3 , h 21% int v ere e st - only
$ 2 j 48 , 000 at a 3 n , 36% f i ixed - ra n te
$ 19 p 8 , 000 at a 3 , o 55% v t ariable - ra y te
 
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=20 V h isi e t o y ur site
 
Sincerely, Ramsey Fitzwater
 
Ap n pro f val Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6621F.BC4DEE90-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 18 16:08:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVwVD-00020F-0g for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:08:47 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVwVA-0003XD-8X for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:08:46 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVw2v-0006BZ-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:39:33 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVw2u-0006BU-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:39:32 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.171] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1294B1BAC4D; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:35:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:39:28 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" Cc: "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5d188b91ff79eaa1be2a0e9635461d9a Hi Bert, Many thanks for the detailed comments. Please find replies inline. Dear all, Please check my replies and please speak up quickly if you have problems with what I suggested. Most issues should be closed by the replies. The following ones definitely need further work. I will address them in a follow-up message: - INFO-AD#1: Do reported statistics include or exclude the reporting IPFIX message? Affected IEs are #40 exportedOctetTotalCount #41 exportedMessageTotalCount #42 exportedFlowTotalCount - INFO-AD#2: Does IE #42 exportedFlowTotalCount report the number of flows or the number of flow records? - INFO-AD#3: Is it OK to change dataty of IEs #16 bgpSourceAsNumber #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber from unsiogned16 to unsigned32? - INFO-AD#4: How to add new label types to the definition of IE #46 mplsTopLabelType? - INFO-AD#5: Explain in the capabilities and limitations of the different dateTimeXX data types. - INFO-AD#6: Review last paragraph of section 7. - INFO-AD#7: Elaborate security considerations Thanks, Juergen > - sect 5.5.x > Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long > (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows > based on the underlying datatype? I will work on a text suggestion. --On 17.03.2006 17:42 Uhr +0100 Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > Sorry that it took so long (if I say it 4 times, i.e. > for each doc I have reviewed, will you please forgive me). > > Seems that a new rev might be in order ?? > > Bert > > - bottom of page 8. enterpriseId - > it speaks about "Information Element Identifier described above" > I do not see where "above" it is described. In fact, I think the > Identifier is described in sect 4, no? Oooops, the Element Id is a mandatory element and not listed above. This was a problem of the code generating this section from the schema. Now, the list of mandatory IE properties contains in addition between 'name' and 'description' the following property: "elementId - A numeric identifier of the Information Element. If this identifier is used without an enterprise identifier (see below), then it is globally unique and the list of allowed values is administered by IANA. It is used for compact identification of an Information Element when encoding templates in the protocol." > - In the 3 paragraphs of sect 3 and 3.1, I would insert the word "abstract" > in from of each occurrence of "data type(s)". > Also the title of sect 3.1 probably reads better as "Abstract Data Types". done. > - sect 3.1.9 > "it is expected that strings will be encoded in UTF-8" > That does not make it interoperable, does it? > Would it not be better to say "strings MUST be encoded..." > And I would add a citation and reference to RFC3629. done. added RFC3629 as normative reference. > - sect 3.2 > s/future protocol extensions/future information model extensions/ ?? fixed, and also in section 3.1. > - page 16 > What are ID 211 and 212 ?? blank ?? reserved?? something else? > I see the explanation on page 17. I'd suggest to make them RESERVED > or OBSOLLETE or DEPRECATEd or give them some name with the note > that they are not part of the standard. I used RESERVED. Maybe we can solve the issues of these two elements before submitting the next version. > - section 5 1st sentence > s/Flow attributes/Information Elements/ ?? fixed. > - sections 5.1.3, 5.1.4., 5.1.5 and 5.1.6 > I worry about referential integrety when the ifIndex gets stored > in offline/archive storage. On a reboot, many devices renumber the > ifIndex for various interfaces. > Is this not a problem? I'd think it is at least something to > mention/discuss/warn for. added "Please note that ifIndex values are not assigned statically to an interface. Interfaces may be renumbered every time the device is rebooted." to the description of 5.1.3 and 5.1.4. added "Please note that process identifiers are typically assigned dynamically. After a reboot, a system failure, a crash of the Metering Process, etc. the Metering Process may be re-started with a different ID. to the description of 5.1.5 and 5.1.6. For 5.1.6 "Metering" was replaced with "Exporting". > - sect 5.2.3 > Is the message that contains this Information Element included in the > count?? May want to make that clear for better interoperability. > Same for some of the other exportXXXCounters INFO-AD#1: These IEs are specified to be compatible with NetFlow v9. I'm checking with my co-authors from Cisco which alternative was chosen for NF v9. When I have this information, I will remove the ambiguity from the descriptions of IEs #40 exportedOctetTotalCount #41 exportedMessageTotalCount #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > - sect 5.2.5 > Text says: number of flow records > But in Units it says: flows > So what is it? > Same for sect 5.2.9 INFO-AD#2: This is another NF v9 compatible IE. As above, I will check and make sure that description and units are consistent. > - sect 5.2.8 > Does the count include header octets? added clarification: OLD Description: The total number of octets in observed IP packets that the Metering Process did not process since the (re-)initialization of the Metering Process. NEW Description: The total number of octets in observed IP packets (including the IP header) that the Metering Process did not process since the (re-)initialization of the Metering Process. > - sect 5.2.12 > It is not clear/sopecific as to which bit is bit zero, bit one etc. I am not sure what is the problem here, but I tried to clarify the description: OLD Description: This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit represents an Information Element in the Data Record with the n-th bit representing the n-th Information Element. A set bit with value 1 indicates that the corresponding Information element is a Flow Key of the reported Flow. A value of 0 indicates that this is not the case. ... NEW Description: This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit represents an Information Element in the Data Record with the n-th bit representing the n-th Information Element. A bit set to value 1 indicates that the corresponding Information element is a Flow Key of the reported Flow. A bit set to value 0 indicates that this is not the case. > - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 > Is it best to speak about Mask? > Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength > - Sect 5.6.3 > I worry about the fact that there is discussion already about AS numbers > of 32-bit length. So are we future proof here? > In the MIB/SMI world we have made it a 32bit unsigned, see > InetAutonomousSystemNumber in RFC4001. INFO-AD#3: change data type of #16 bgpSourceAsNumber #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber #128 bgpNextAdjacentAsNumber #129 bgpPrevAdjacentAsNumber from unsigned16 to unsigned32. > - sect 5.6.9 > How are new values of Labeltypes be added in the future? > last line in this section, remove "and IP addresses" ?? INFO-AD#4: I have no good answer on this comment. Does anyone else have? > - sect 5.8 > Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels > of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for applications with different precision requirements. > - sect 5.5.x > Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long > (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows > based on the underlying datatype? INFO-AD#5: I will work on a text suggestion. We avoid duplication if we put this text to the data type descriptions in section 3.1. > - sect 5.9.11 to 5.9.14 > I wondered if it makes sense to say some thing more about > "packet treatment". Like what sort of treatment? Any > reference to an RFC? We discussed this issue several times in the past, but did not find a good solution for it. > - sect 5.10.2 speaks about flowInactiveTimeout while sect 5.10.3 > speaks about idle timeout. Should you have flowIdleTimeout > instead of flowInactievTimeout for consistency? renamed flowInactiveTimeout to flowIdleTimeout. > - sect 5.10.11 > Make it clear that the value is hex 00 (0 could be read > as decimal zero) OLD 5.11.1. paddingOctets Description: The value of this Information Element is always 0. NEW 5.11.1. paddingOctets Description: The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 values. > - sect 6, page 69 > I think I would make it MUST instead of SHOULD in 2nd > and 3rd para. These paragraphs are "Names of new Information Elements SHOULD be chosen according to the naming conventions given in section 2.3. For extensions, the type space defined in section 3 can be used. If required, new data types can be added. New data types SHOULD be defined in IETF standards track documents." For IE naming I think that a SHOULD is OK, because fully consistent IE naming appears to be very difficult. There might be situations where deviations from a fixed scheme improve the readability and intuitive understanding of IE semantics. For example we inconsistently use "IPv4" instead of "IpV4" in IE names, because several people did not like "IpV4". For new data types I agree. Changed SHOULD to MUST. > - sect 7 > first para, pls add a ptr to the list of Information > Element Identifiers that need to be recorded as the > initially assigned values for this registry. > I guess you need to point them to sect 4. > I doubt it is clear to IANA though what exactly to record > from that section. You can check directly with iana to > ask if things are clear or not and if not to work out > text with them that they understand. I tried to address this comment: OLD 7. IANA Considerations This documents defines an initial set of IPFIX Information Elements. For extending them in the future, IANA needs to create a new registry for IPFIX Information Element identifiers. New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The group of experts must double check the Information Elements definitions with already defined Information Elements for completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming following the naming conventions in section 2.3. Those experts will initially be drawn from the Working Group Chairs and document editors of the IPFIX and PSAMP Working Groups. Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information model. This schema introduces a new namespace, which will be assigned by IANA according to RFC 3688. Currently the name space for this schema is identified as http://www.ietf.org/ipfix. NEW 7. IANA Considerations This document specifies an initial set of IPFIX Information Elements. The list of these Information Elements with their identifiers is given in section 4. IANA needs to create a new registry for IPFIX Information Element identifiers and fill it with the initial list in section 4. New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The group of experts must double check the Information Elements definitions with already defined Information Elements for completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming following the naming conventions in section 2.3. The specification of new IPFIX Information Elements MUST use the template specified in section 2.1 and MUST be published using a well established and persistent publication medium. The experts will initially be drawn from the Working Group Chairs and document editors of the IPFIX and PSAMP Working Groups. Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information > I wonder if it would not be much better to have new > Information Elements require a Standards Track action. > I think that ensure much better review and evaluation > and certainly ensure well-documented registrations. We discussed the issue several times and concluded that this procedure would be too time consuming and too slow. > In any event, if you do do FCFS with expert review, > then I would > - require proper documentation to be publicly available > - maybe setup some sort of template that MUST be filled > out and approved to request registration. I added these two requirements to the new version of section 7 that you find above. > You speak about an Appendix B as having a schema/example > on how to extend. It is however (I think) the Schema > for the currently assigned values. INFO-AD#6: Yes, but it should also be used for extensions. However, I still need to investigate the XML schema issues that you posted in a different email. I will come back to this issue, when the XML schema issue is closed. > - Sect 8. > I am pretty sure that the Security ADs will want to see > more detail here. They probably want to understand which > Information Elements contain sensitive data (and why it > is sensitive) or privacy sensitive data (and why so). > Probably similar to why they want to see that a MIB > document lists the objects that are sensitive and > why so and what the risks are if the data gets > intercepted. INFO-AD#7: Let's come back to this after the security AD review. > - Appendix A and B > I am a bit confused when I read as title > "Formal Specification..." and then in the first para > I read that it is informational and not normative. > > If it is a "formal machine readable spec.." is it then not > intended as input to tools, code-generators, data-structure > generators and such? In that case I would be very worried > if no this schema but the text earlier in the document > is normative and authoritative. It is not a formal specification. But it is machine readable and intended as input to tools. In one of the many passed IPFIX sessions and on the mailing list we discussed the issue and concluded that the text in section 5, which is generated from the appendix with a tool would be normative, because this is human readable. > Anyway, I asked an APPS AD if he could check the "formal" > machine readable schema, but he does not recognize it as > a schema that can be checked by any of his tools. So > what is it? How can we (or anyone) check it for correctness? We got this review in a separate email. Issues raised will be addressed in a reply to it. > administrative/bureaucracy/nits/spelling: > > - sect 5.10.4 > > "bewtween in time" in first sentence ?? fixed. > same in sect 5.10.5 fixed. > - 3rd para in sect 1. I suspect that the ptrs to the various sections > do not completely match with the actual content claimed to be > in those sections. Specifically, the ptrs to 4 and 5 should probably > be 5 and 6 ?? fixed. > - I see that you use MUST (i.e. rfc2119 type) language and > so there MUST be a normative citation/reference to RFC2119. added. > - problems with references/citations. > Note that my tool may give false warnings, so just check > them. In most of the cases below we cited "see RFC XXXX" in the reference section. I replaced all these references with "see RFC XXXX [RFCXXXX]". > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P071 L006: [IEEE.802-11.1999] > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P071 L015: [IEEE.802-3.2002] > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P071 L023: [IEEE.P802-1Q.2003] > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L026: [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L029: [RFC2463] Conta, A. and S. Deering, "Internet Control Message > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L033: [RFC2547] Rosen, E. and Y. Rekhter, "BGP/MPLS VPNs", RFC 2547, > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L036: [RFC2629] Rose, M., "Writing I-Ds and RFCs using XML", RFC 2629, > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L039: [RFC2863] McCloghrie, K. and F. Kastenholz, "The Interfaces Group > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L042: [RFC2960] Stewart, R., Xie, Q., Morneault, K., Sharp, C., > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L047: [RFC3031] Rosen, E., Viswanathan, A., and R. Callon, "Multiprotocol > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P072 L050: [RFC3032] Rosen, E., Tappan, D., Fedorkow, G., Rekhter, Y., > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P073 L006: [RFC3036] Andersson, L., Doolan, P., Feldman, N., Fredette, A., and > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P073 L012: [RFC3260] Grossman, D., "New Terminology and Clarifications for The three references below are not cited. removed them. > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P073 L015: [RFC3667] Bradner, S., "IETF Rights in Contributions", RFC 3667, > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P073 L018: [RFC3668] Bradner, S., "Intellectual Property Rights in IETF > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > P073 L021: [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 18 17:27:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVxjV-0003qg-GP for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:27:37 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FVxjV-0007sq-7T for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:27:37 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVxf3-0004Ys-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:23:01 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FVxf2-0004Yj-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:23:00 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k3ILMsgv017726 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:22:58 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k3ILLHg5017662 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:21:17 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k3ILL4E6017660; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.237.240.157] (vpn-10-25-4-17.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.17]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k3ILL4de024640; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:21:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-8--415664522" Message-Id: Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:20:59 -0400 To: Juergen Quittek X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-8--415664522 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Juergen, A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline... On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: >> - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 >> Is it best to speak about Mask? >> Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? > > renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength > and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs? >> - sect 5.8 >> Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels >> of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? > > For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for > applications with different precision requirements. It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305) encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7, 6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and nanosecond information elements is an estimation of precision. Since NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200 picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller than 1ns for nanosecond IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs. Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to RFC1305 in the information model? Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in English - e.g. "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that does not exist ("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while we have the chance. >> - sect 5.5.x >> Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long >> (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows >> based on the underlying datatype? > > INFO-AD#5: > I will work on a text suggestion. We avoid duplication if we put > this text to the data type descriptions in section 3.1. > >> - sect 5.9.11 to 5.9.14 >> I wondered if it makes sense to say some thing more about >> "packet treatment". Like what sort of treatment? Any >> reference to an RFC? > > We discussed this issue several times in the past, but did not > find a good solution for it. > >> - sect 5.10.2 speaks about flowInactiveTimeout while sect 5.10.3 >> speaks about idle timeout. Should you have flowIdleTimeout >> instead of flowInactievTimeout for consistency? > > renamed flowInactiveTimeout to flowIdleTimeout. Another capitalization: we have flowIdleTimeout, and flowActiveTimeOut; the latter should be changed to flowActiveTimeout. Regards, Brian --Apple-Mail-8--415664522 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFERVg/4/8LCZ4pwvYRAvg2AKC8KBIEj6YC1hCnwR7tS8UROAKkEwCgjstf wzS7HtFH3UGwr+8wBBGbnVo= =Wq2I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-8--415664522-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 18 19:59:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FW06s-0007aO-SM for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:59:54 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FW06s-0007Me-Pr for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:59:54 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FW06p-00079A-S0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:59:54 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FW01r-0005sn-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:54:43 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FW01p-0005sc-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:54:41 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AFE1BAC4D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:50:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:54:37 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Brian Trammell Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 Brian, Thank you for your suggestions. Please find replies inline. --On 18.04.2006 17:20 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote: > Juergen, > > A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline... > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: > >>> - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 >>> Is it best to speak about Mask? >>> Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? >> >> renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength >> and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength > > what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs? Right. I missed them. Fixed it by changing also the destination masks to destination prefix lengths. >>> - sect 5.8 >>> Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels >>> of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? >> >> For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for >> applications with different precision requirements. > > It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305) > encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7, > 6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and > nanosecond information elements is an estimation of > precision. Since NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200 > picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller > than 1ns for nanosecond IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs. I think this is an issue for the protocol document. > Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed > that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and > nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol > document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type > definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to > RFC1305 in the information model? No, the information model does not request a specific encoding for time stamps. It should be possible to use it with different time stamp formats. > Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out > once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation > guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element > names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in > English - e.g. "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that does not exist > ("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while > we have the chance. You are right. I changed it. To be consistent, I also had to change the data types dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds. To be consistent, we also need to apply this change in the protocol document. >>> - sect 5.5.x >>> Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long >>> (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows >>> based on the underlying datatype? >> >> INFO-AD#5: >> I will work on a text suggestion. We avoid duplication if we put >> this text to the data type descriptions in section 3.1. >> >>> - sect 5.9.11 to 5.9.14 >>> I wondered if it makes sense to say some thing more about >>> "packet treatment". Like what sort of treatment? Any >>> reference to an RFC? >> >> We discussed this issue several times in the past, but did not >> find a good solution for it. >> >>> - sect 5.10.2 speaks about flowInactiveTimeout while sect 5.10.3 >>> speaks about idle timeout. Should you have flowIdleTimeout >>> instead of flowInactievTimeout for consistency? >> >> renamed flowInactiveTimeout to flowIdleTimeout. > > Another capitalization: we have flowIdleTimeout, and flowActiveTimeOut; > the latter should be changed to flowActiveTimeout. fixed. Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 06:30:09 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FW9wn-0008V3-0v for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:30:09 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FW9wl-00028X-8c for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:30:09 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FW9pF-00068o-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:22:21 -0500 Received: from hoemail2.lucent.com ([192.11.226.163]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FW9pE-00068h-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:22:20 -0500 Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by hoemail2.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k3JAMGoo009820; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:22:14 +0200 Message-ID: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509D5B745@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: Juergen Quittek , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" Cc: "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:22:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ed37b243475b9c4ffb6a3f90050819d Thanks. I am basically happy with your answers. The WG will have to follow up on the issues you have declared open. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Quittek [mailto:quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 21:39 > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); 'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail) > Cc: Dan Romascanu (E-mail); David Kessens (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt > > > Hi Bert, > > Many thanks for the detailed comments. > Please find replies inline. > > Dear all, > > Please check my replies and please speak up quickly > if you have problems with what I suggested. > > Most issues should be closed by the replies. > > The following ones definitely need further work. > I will address them in a follow-up message: > > - INFO-AD#1: Do reported statistics include or exclude the > reporting IPFIX message? Affected IEs are > #40 exportedOctetTotalCount > #41 exportedMessageTotalCount > #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > > - INFO-AD#2: Does IE #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > report the number of flows or the number of flow records? > > - INFO-AD#3: Is it OK to change dataty of IEs > #16 bgpSourceAsNumber > #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber > from unsiogned16 to unsigned32? > > - INFO-AD#4: How to add new label types to the definition of > IE #46 mplsTopLabelType? > > - INFO-AD#5: Explain in the capabilities and limitations of the > different dateTimeXX data types. > > - INFO-AD#6: > Review last paragraph of section 7. > > - INFO-AD#7: > Elaborate security considerations > > Thanks, > > Juergen > > > > - sect 5.5.x > > Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long > > (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows > > based on the underlying datatype? > > I will work on a text suggestion. > > > --On 17.03.2006 17:42 Uhr +0100 Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > > > Sorry that it took so long (if I say it 4 times, i.e. > > for each doc I have reviewed, will you please forgive me). > > > > Seems that a new rev might be in order ?? > > > > Bert > > > > - bottom of page 8. enterpriseId - > > it speaks about "Information Element Identifier described above" > > I do not see where "above" it is described. In fact, I think the > > Identifier is described in sect 4, no? > > Oooops, the Element Id is a mandatory element and not listed above. > This was a problem of the code generating this section from > the schema. > Now, the list of mandatory IE properties contains in addition between > 'name' and 'description' the following property: > > "elementId - A numeric identifier of the Information > Element. If this > identifier is used without an enterprise identifier (see below), > then it is globally unique and the list of allowed values is > administered by IANA. It is used for compact > identification of an > Information Element when encoding templates in the protocol." > > > - In the 3 paragraphs of sect 3 and 3.1, I would insert the > word "abstract" > > in from of each occurrence of "data type(s)". > > Also the title of sect 3.1 probably reads better as > "Abstract Data Types". > > done. > > > - sect 3.1.9 > > "it is expected that strings will be encoded in UTF-8" > > That does not make it interoperable, does it? > > Would it not be better to say "strings MUST be encoded..." > > And I would add a citation and reference to RFC3629. > > done. > added RFC3629 as normative reference. > > > - sect 3.2 > > s/future protocol extensions/future information model > extensions/ ?? > > fixed, and also in section 3.1. > > > - page 16 > > What are ID 211 and 212 ?? blank ?? reserved?? something else? > > I see the explanation on page 17. I'd suggest to make > them RESERVED > > or OBSOLLETE or DEPRECATEd or give them some name with the note > > that they are not part of the standard. > > I used RESERVED. Maybe we can solve the issues of these two elements > before submitting the next version. > > > - section 5 1st sentence > > s/Flow attributes/Information Elements/ ?? > > fixed. > > > - sections 5.1.3, 5.1.4., 5.1.5 and 5.1.6 > > I worry about referential integrety when the ifIndex gets stored > > in offline/archive storage. On a reboot, many devices renumber the > > ifIndex for various interfaces. > > Is this not a problem? I'd think it is at least something to > > mention/discuss/warn for. > > added > > "Please note that ifIndex > values are not assigned statically to an interface. > Interfaces may be renumbered every time the device is > rebooted." > > to the description of 5.1.3 and 5.1.4. > > added > > "Please note that > process identifiers are typically assigned dynamically. > After a reboot, a system failure, a crash of the Metering > Process, etc. the Metering Process may be re-started > with a different ID. > > to the description of 5.1.5 and 5.1.6. For 5.1.6 "Metering" > was replaced with "Exporting". > > > - sect 5.2.3 > > Is the message that contains this Information Element > included in the > > count?? May want to make that clear for better interoperability. > > Same for some of the other exportXXXCounters > > INFO-AD#1: > These IEs are specified to be compatible with NetFlow v9. > I'm checking with my co-authors from Cisco which alternative > was chosen for NF v9. > > When I have this information, I will remove the ambiguity > from the descriptions of IEs > #40 exportedOctetTotalCount > #41 exportedMessageTotalCount > #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > > > - sect 5.2.5 > > Text says: number of flow records > > But in Units it says: flows > > So what is it? > > Same for sect 5.2.9 > > INFO-AD#2: > This is another NF v9 compatible IE. As above, I will check > and make sure that description and units are consistent. > > > - sect 5.2.8 > > Does the count include header octets? > > added clarification: > > OLD > Description: > The total number of octets in observed IP packets that the > Metering Process did not process since the > (re-)initialization of > the Metering Process. > NEW > Description: > The total number of octets in observed IP packets (including the > IP header) that the Metering Process did not process since the > (re-)initialization of the Metering Process. > > > - sect 5.2.12 > > It is not clear/sopecific as to which bit is bit zero, > bit one etc. > > I am not sure what is the problem here, but I tried to clarify > the description: > > OLD > Description: > This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information > Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit > represents an Information Element in the Data Record > with the n-th > bit representing the n-th Information Element. A set bit with > value 1 indicates that the corresponding Information > element is a > Flow Key of the reported Flow. A value of 0 indicates that this > is not the case. ... > NEW > Description: > This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information > Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit > represents an Information Element in the Data Record > with the n-th > bit representing the n-th Information Element. A bit > set to value > 1 indicates that the corresponding Information element is a Flow > Key of the reported Flow. A bit set to value 0 indicates that > this is not the case. > > > - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 > > Is it best to speak about Mask? > > Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? > > renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength > and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength > > > - Sect 5.6.3 > > I worry about the fact that there is discussion already > about AS numbers > > of 32-bit length. So are we future proof here? > > In the MIB/SMI world we have made it a 32bit unsigned, see > > InetAutonomousSystemNumber in RFC4001. > > INFO-AD#3: > change data type of > #16 bgpSourceAsNumber > #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber > #128 bgpNextAdjacentAsNumber > #129 bgpPrevAdjacentAsNumber > from unsigned16 to unsigned32. > > > - sect 5.6.9 > > How are new values of Labeltypes be added in the future? > > last line in this section, remove "and IP addresses" ?? > > INFO-AD#4: > I have no good answer on this comment. Does anyone else have? > > > - sect 5.8 > > Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels > > of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? > > For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for > applications with different precision requirements. > > > - sect 5.5.x > > Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long > > (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows > > based on the underlying datatype? > > INFO-AD#5: > I will work on a text suggestion. We avoid duplication if we put > this text to the data type descriptions in section 3.1. > > > - sect 5.9.11 to 5.9.14 > > I wondered if it makes sense to say some thing more about > > "packet treatment". Like what sort of treatment? Any > > reference to an RFC? > > We discussed this issue several times in the past, but did not > find a good solution for it. > > > - sect 5.10.2 speaks about flowInactiveTimeout while sect 5.10.3 > > speaks about idle timeout. Should you have flowIdleTimeout > > instead of flowInactievTimeout for consistency? > > renamed flowInactiveTimeout to flowIdleTimeout. > > > - sect 5.10.11 > > Make it clear that the value is hex 00 (0 could be read > > as decimal zero) > > OLD > 5.11.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always 0. > NEW > 5.11.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always a > sequence of 0x00 > values. > > > - sect 6, page 69 > > I think I would make it MUST instead of SHOULD in 2nd > > and 3rd para. > > These paragraphs are > > "Names of new Information Elements SHOULD be chosen according to the > naming conventions given in section 2.3. > > For extensions, the type space defined in section 3 can be > used. If > required, new data types can be added. New data types SHOULD be > defined in IETF standards track documents." > > For IE naming I think that a SHOULD is OK, because fully consistent IE > naming appears to be very difficult. There might be situations where > deviations from a fixed scheme improve the readability and intuitive > understanding of IE semantics. For example we inconsistently > use "IPv4" > instead of "IpV4" in IE names, because several people did not > like "IpV4". > > For new data types I agree. Changed SHOULD to MUST. > > > - sect 7 > > first para, pls add a ptr to the list of Information > > Element Identifiers that need to be recorded as the > > initially assigned values for this registry. > > I guess you need to point them to sect 4. > > I doubt it is clear to IANA though what exactly to record > > from that section. You can check directly with iana to > > ask if things are clear or not and if not to work out > > text with them that they understand. > > I tried to address this comment: > OLD > 7. IANA Considerations > > This documents defines an initial set of IPFIX Information > Elements. > For extending them in the future, IANA needs to create a > new registry > for IPFIX Information Element identifiers. > > New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered > by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to > Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts > designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The > group of experts must double check the Information Elements > definitions with already defined Information Elements for > completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming > following the > naming conventions in section 2.3. Those experts will initially be > drawn from the Working Group Chairs and document editors > of the IPFIX > and PSAMP Working Groups. > > Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create > consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information > model. This schema introduces a new namespace, which will be > assigned by IANA according to RFC 3688. Currently the > name space for > this schema is identified as http://www.ietf.org/ipfix. > NEW > 7. IANA Considerations > > This document specifies an initial set of IPFIX > Information Elements. > The list of these Information Elements with their identifiers is > given in section 4. IANA needs to create a new registry for IPFIX > Information Element identifiers and fill it with the > initial list in > section 4. > > New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered > by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to > Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts > designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The > group of experts must double check the Information Elements > definitions with already defined Information Elements for > completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming > following the > naming conventions in section 2.3. The specification of new IPFIX > Information Elements MUST use the template specified in section 2.1 > and MUST be published using a well established and persistent > publication medium. The experts will initially be drawn from the > Working Group Chairs and document editors of the IPFIX and PSAMP > Working Groups. > > Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create > consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information > > > I wonder if it would not be much better to have new > > Information Elements require a Standards Track action. > > I think that ensure much better review and evaluation > > and certainly ensure well-documented registrations. > > We discussed the issue several times and concluded that this > procedure would be too time consuming and too slow. > > > In any event, if you do do FCFS with expert review, > > then I would > > - require proper documentation to be publicly available > > - maybe setup some sort of template that MUST be filled > > out and approved to request registration. > > I added these two requirements to the new version of section 7 > that you find above. > > > You speak about an Appendix B as having a schema/example > > on how to extend. It is however (I think) the Schema > > for the currently assigned values. > > INFO-AD#6: > Yes, but it should also be used for extensions. However, I > still need to investigate the XML schema issues that you posted > in a different email. I will come back to this issue, when > the XML schema issue is closed. > > > - Sect 8. > > I am pretty sure that the Security ADs will want to see > > more detail here. They probably want to understand which > > Information Elements contain sensitive data (and why it > > is sensitive) or privacy sensitive data (and why so). > > Probably similar to why they want to see that a MIB > > document lists the objects that are sensitive and > > why so and what the risks are if the data gets > > intercepted. > > INFO-AD#7: > Let's come back to this after the security AD review. > > > - Appendix A and B > > I am a bit confused when I read as title > > "Formal Specification..." and then in the first para > > I read that it is informational and not normative. > > > > If it is a "formal machine readable spec.." is it then not > > intended as input to tools, code-generators, data-structure > > generators and such? In that case I would be very worried > > if no this schema but the text earlier in the document > > is normative and authoritative. > > It is not a formal specification. But it is machine readable > and intended as input to tools. In one of the many passed > IPFIX sessions and on the mailing list we discussed the issue > and concluded that the text in section 5, which is generated > from the appendix with a tool would be normative, because this > is human readable. > > > Anyway, I asked an APPS AD if he could check the "formal" > > machine readable schema, but he does not recognize it as > > a schema that can be checked by any of his tools. So > > what is it? How can we (or anyone) check it for correctness? > > We got this review in a separate email. > Issues raised will be addressed in a reply to it. > > > administrative/bureaucracy/nits/spelling: > > > > - sect 5.10.4 > > > > "bewtween in time" in first sentence ?? > > fixed. > > > same in sect 5.10.5 > > fixed. > > > - 3rd para in sect 1. I suspect that the ptrs to the > various sections > > do not completely match with the actual content claimed to be > > in those sections. Specifically, the ptrs to 4 and 5 > should probably > > be 5 and 6 ?? > > fixed. > > > - I see that you use MUST (i.e. rfc2119 type) language and > > so there MUST be a normative citation/reference to RFC2119. > > added. > > > - problems with references/citations. > > Note that my tool may give false warnings, so just check > > them. > > In most of the cases below we cited "see RFC XXXX" in the > reference section. I replaced all these references with > "see RFC XXXX [RFCXXXX]". > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P071 L006: [IEEE.802-11.1999] > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P071 L015: [IEEE.802-3.2002] > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P071 L023: [IEEE.P802-1Q.2003] > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L026: [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, > "Internet Protocol, Version 6 > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L029: [RFC2463] Conta, A. and S. Deering, > "Internet Control Message > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L033: [RFC2547] Rosen, E. and Y. Rekhter, > "BGP/MPLS VPNs", RFC 2547, > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L036: [RFC2629] Rose, M., "Writing I-Ds and RFCs > using XML", RFC 2629, > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L039: [RFC2863] McCloghrie, K. and F. > Kastenholz, "The Interfaces Group > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L042: [RFC2960] Stewart, R., Xie, Q., Morneault, > K., Sharp, C., > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L047: [RFC3031] Rosen, E., Viswanathan, A., and > R. Callon, "Multiprotocol > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P072 L050: [RFC3032] Rosen, E., Tappan, D., Fedorkow, > G., Rekhter, Y., > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P073 L006: [RFC3036] Andersson, L., Doolan, P., > Feldman, N., Fredette, A., and > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P073 L012: [RFC3260] Grossman, D., "New Terminology > and Clarifications for > > The three references below are not cited. removed them. > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P073 L015: [RFC3667] Bradner, S., "IETF Rights in > Contributions", RFC 3667, > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P073 L018: [RFC3668] Bradner, S., "Intellectual > Property Rights in IETF > > > > !! Missing citation for Informative reference: > > P073 L021: [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, > B., and S. Zander, > > > > -- > > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "help" in message body > > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > > > > > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 08:24:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWBjn-00005t-De for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:24:51 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWBjl-0008Vc-63 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:24:51 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWBee-0003TI-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:19:32 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWBed-0003TD-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:19:31 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1BE1BAC4D for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:15:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:19:30 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Dear all, While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed adding signed data types. We do not need them now, but several WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future extensions. I suggest adding signed16 and signed32. Are there any objections or suggestions for alternative choices? Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 09:03:14 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWCKw-0008Cz-BB for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:03:14 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWCKv-0001ln-3n for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:03:14 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWCHF-0005Eh-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:59:25 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWCHE-0005Ea-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:59:24 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k3JCxLn15863; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:59:21 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:59:21 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CA5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Thread-Index: AcZjq+DHfNlu+4YjRb24U5jW1hMIZwABJOPg From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Juergen Quittek" , Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 J=FCrgen, I support adding them to the info model. Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types. related question 1:=20 should we say somewhere that floating point types are always signed? related question 2: Is there any special care to be taken when transmitting signed numbers using reduced size encoding? (anyway, if so then a sentence about it would need to go to the impl guidelines draft) Regards, Carsten. > -----Original Message----- > From: majordomo listserver=20 > [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Juergen Quittek > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:20 PM > To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > Subject: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed > adding signed data types. We do not need them now, but several > WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future > extensions. >=20 > I suggest adding signed16 and signed32. >=20 > Are there any objections or suggestions for alternative choices? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help"=20 > in message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >=20 >=20 -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 09:39:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWCu5-0007rI-Nl for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:39:33 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWCu4-0003uP-BP for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:39:33 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWCpD-0006jE-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:34:31 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWCpC-0006j9-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:34:30 -0500 Received: from [195.37.70.168] (unknown [195.37.70.168]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A781C1BAC4D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:30:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:34:25 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: "Schmoll, Carsten" , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: RE: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Message-ID: <9FEE136C786AA2368195FDAD@753F3B888A9969457862729D> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CA5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CA5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Hi Carsten, --On 19.04.2006 14:59 Uhr +0200 Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > > J=FCrgen, > > I support adding them to the info model. > Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types. Shall we call it signed8 or signedOctet? currently we only have octet and not unsigned8. I do not see a real need for signed64. This is hardly used even as data type in programs. > related question 1: > should we say somewhere that floating point types are always signed? We are referring to IEEE.754.1985 that fully specifies the range. In programming languages float use to be signed. In never saw an unsigned float. > related question 2: > Is there any special care to be taken when transmitting signed > numbers using reduced size encoding? (anyway, if so then a > sentence about it would need to go to the impl guidelines draft) If we agree on having signed types in the info model, we need to update the encoding section in the protocol document. We need to add a section 6.1.2. on encoding signed data types and we need to add a paragraph to section 6.2 Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types on how to reduce the size of signed data types. > Regards, > Carsten. Thanks, Juergen >> -----Original Message----- >> From: majordomo listserver >> [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Juergen Quittek >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:20 PM >> To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu >> Subject: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model >> >> Dear all, >> >> While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed >> adding signed data types. We do not need them now, but several >> WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future >> extensions. >> >> I suggest adding signed16 and signed32. >> >> Are there any objections or suggestions for alternative choices? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> -- >> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" >> in message body >> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> >> > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 09:49:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWD46-0001na-3a for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:49:54 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWD44-0004D0-Rw for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:49:54 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWD0D-0007Hr-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:45:53 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWD0C-0007HX-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:45:52 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k3JDjon23880; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:45:50 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:45:49 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CAC@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Thread-Index: AcZjthCMiM7SPAmMS+q9aLTbY+htDAAAKMsg From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Juergen Quittek" , Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Some more small comments inline: > > I support adding them to the info model. > > Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types. >=20 > Shall we call it signed8 or signedOctet? > currently we only have octet and not unsigned8. Then I would say to go for signedOctet. > I do not see a real need for signed64. > This is hardly used even as data type in programs. Ok. I can do without sugned64. All the 64bit values=20 in use are counters and they all are clearly unsigned. > > related question 1: > > should we say somewhere that floating point types are=20 > always signed? >=20 > We are referring to IEEE.754.1985 that fully specifies the range. Ok. Then it is already well defined. No need for extra text. > If we agree on having signed types in the info model, we need to > update the encoding section in the protocol document. We need to add > a section 6.1.2. on encoding signed data types and we need to add > a paragraph to section 6.2 Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types > on how to reduce the size of signed data types. Yep. I can suggest some added text there when you have a new=20 version of the info model to refer. Kind regards, Carsten. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 10:58:23 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE8N-0002jD-HW for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:23 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE8L-0007L9-8x for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:23 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWDyR-0002Hw-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:48:07 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWDyQ-0002Hp-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:48:06 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2006 16:48:05 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3JEm3UE021165; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:48:03 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.26] ([10.58.48.26]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21850; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:48:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <44464D9F.8060605@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:47:59 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Juergen, > To be consistent, I also had to change the data types > dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds. There is also some inconsistency concerning where IP, IPv4 and IPv6 are placed in the IE names: IP usually prefixes the name, while IPv4 and IPv6 are usually in the middle of the name, or suffixes - with the notable exceptions of "ipv4Options" and "ipv6ExtensionHeaders". It's particularly clear here: | 5 | classOfServiceIPv4 | | 55 | postClassOfServiceIPv4 | | 137 | classOfServiceIPv6 | | 138 | postClassOfServiceIPv6 | | 194 | ipClassOfService | | 195 | ipDiffServCodePoint | From a readability perspective, the address family (if any) should always be first in the name. However, from a technology perspective it may be more sensible as a suffix. Whichever, we should chose a consistent naming convention and stick to it. Cheers. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 10:58:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE8n-0002nJ-Nt for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:49 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWE8n-0007MQ-Ef for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:49 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWE09-0002Kn-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:49:53 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWE07-0002Ki-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:49:52 -0500 Received: from [195.37.70.168] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFEBB1BAC4D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:49:50 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" Cc: "Scott Hollenbeck (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] Additional AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11 XML Schema Rev iew Message-ID: <9EF3D71255B6581CFF387481@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B155098E2116@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B155098E2116@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Dear all, Here are replies to the comments from Scott. Scott, many Thanks for checking the XML appendices! Please check the replies below. There is one more (editorial) issue remaining: - INFO-AD#8: Appendix A is not formal specification. All text that says it is formal, needs to be changed. --On 19.03.2006 6:43 Uhr +0100 Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > Pls include the below comment as AD review comments for > this document. > > Thanks for the review to Scott! > > Bert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Hollenbeck [mailto:sah@428cobrajet.net] > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 19:32 > To: 'Wijnen, Bert (Bert)'; 'David Kessens'; dromasca@avaya.com > Subject: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11 XML Schema Review > > > Review at Bert's request. > > Appendix A: > > The best that can be done with this is to confirm that it's well-formed XML. > It's NOT a specification in the formal sense of the word. INFO-AD#8: Agreed. This needs to be fixed at several places in the draft. I will come back with text suggestions. > Appendix B: > > This is an XML Schema specification. As currently written it's not valid. > The issues: > > The legitimate element is commented out. It shouldn't be. There > are also some other structures in the Schema that are commented out without > explanation. They should be either removed, or something should be added to > explain why they're commented out. fixed. > The URI used to identify the Schema doesn't follow the conventions for IETF > Schemas described in RFC 3688, but that's probably OK if this is just for > informational purposes. > > The XPath described at the end of the Schema is invalid. Here's the error > returned from IBM's XML Schema Quality Checker: > > MESSAGE > No node in element http://www.ietf.org/ipfix:fieldDefinitions corresponds to > /> > defined in > > > > . Invalid XPath starting from > http://www.ietf.org/ipfix:fieldDefinitions:field. > > It appears to be invalid because there's nothing defined as infoElementId in > the Schema. fixed: replaced "infoElementIdUnique" with "elementId". > > > to be done ... > > > > Note the "to be done". There were two tags with this documentation. Both were obsolete remnants of earlier versions. I deleted them. > -Scott- Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 11:05:04 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEEq-0004MH-3k for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:05:04 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEEp-0007rh-SS for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:05:04 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEAu-0002wx-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:01:00 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEAt-0002ws-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:00:59 -0500 Received: from [195.37.70.168] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B627D1BAC4D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:56:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:00:56 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Paul Aitken Cc: Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Message-ID: <8BD667E484AC45424DDE3709@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <44464D9F.8060605@cisco.com> References: <44464D9F.8060605@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Hi Paul, --On 19.04.2006 15:47 Uhr +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Juergen, > >> To be consistent, I also had to change the data types >> dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds. > > > There is also some inconsistency concerning where IP, IPv4 and IPv6 are placed in the IE names: IP usually prefixes the name, while IPv4 and IPv6 are usually in the middle of the name, or suffixes - with the notable exceptions of "ipv4Options" and > "ipv6ExtensionHeaders". > > It's particularly clear here: > > | 5 | classOfServiceIPv4 | > | 55 | postClassOfServiceIPv4 | > | 137 | classOfServiceIPv6 | > | 138 | postClassOfServiceIPv6 | We also have IPvX in the middle | 44 | sourceIPv4Prefix | | 45 | destinationIPv4Prefix | and two IPs in one name: | 62 | ipNextHopIPv6Address | I am open to a consistent suggestion for ALL IEs containing IP, IPv4 or IPv6. > | 194 | ipClassOfService | > | 195 | ipDiffServCodePoint | What about removing "ip" from these two IE names? Thanks, Juergen > From a readability perspective, the address family (if any) should always be first in the name. However, from a technology perspective it may be more sensible as a suffix. > > Whichever, we should chose a consistent naming convention and stick to it. > > Cheers. > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 11:28:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEb5-0001JC-Ng for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:28:03 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEb4-0000Jd-Fx for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:28:03 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEWU-0003zb-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:23:18 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEWS-0003yh-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:23:16 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2006 17:23:17 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3JFNFUE001493; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:23:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.26] ([10.58.48.26]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26720; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:23:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <444655E2.5030305@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:23:14 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix] new element: fragmentOffsetIPv6 ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab IPFIXers, We have #88 = fragmentOffsetIPv4 - but no equivalent for IPv6 fragment offset? See section 4.5 of RFC 2460. I suggest we allocate #211 for this. BTW, there are also no elements to report Hop-by-Hop Options (section 4.3) or Destination Options (section 4.6). -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 11:38:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEle-0004FR-Vl for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:38:58 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEld-0000ny-Ok for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:38:58 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEiI-0004de-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:35:30 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWEiH-0004dT-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:35:29 -0500 Received: from [10.147.65.153] (luz@kaitos [10.147.65.153]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k3JFZRn09675; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:35:27 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <444658BE.9010809@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:35:26 +0200 From: Lutz Mark User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060130) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab > While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed > adding signed data types. We do not need them now, but several > WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future > extensions. > > I suggest adding signed16 and signed32. to be consistent I prefer to have: signed8, signed16, signed32, signed64 and to change octet to unsigned8. Best regards, Lutz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 11:49:51 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEwB-0007DM-22 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:49:51 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWEw8-0001J0-Op for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:49:51 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWErY-000590-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:45:04 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWErX-00058p-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:45:03 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2006 17:45:03 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3JFj1UE007242; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:45:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.26] ([10.58.48.26]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29107; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:44:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <44465AF7.6010607@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:44:55 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt References: <44464D9F.8060605@cisco.com> <8BD667E484AC45424DDE3709@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <8BD667E484AC45424DDE3709@[10.1.1.171]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Juergen, >> There is also some inconsistency concerning where IP, IPv4 and IPv6 >> are placed in the IE names: IP usually prefixes the name, while IPv4 >> and IPv6 are usually in the middle of the name, or suffixes - with >> the notable exceptions of "ipv4Options" and >> "ipv6ExtensionHeaders". >> >> It's particularly clear here: >> >> | 5 | classOfServiceIPv4 | >> | 55 | postClassOfServiceIPv4 | >> | 137 | classOfServiceIPv6 | >> | 138 | postClassOfServiceIPv6 | > > > We also have IPvX in the middle > > | 44 | sourceIPv4Prefix | > | 45 | destinationIPv4Prefix | > > and two IPs in one name: > > | 62 | ipNextHopIPv6Address | It's clearly a confusing naming convention. > I am open to a consistent suggestion for ALL IEs containing IP, IPv4 > or IPv6. > >> | 194 | ipClassOfService | >> | 195 | ipDiffServCodePoint | > > > What about removing "ip" from these two IE names? If we consistently put { IP | IPv4 | IPv6 } at the start of the names, then when listing elements alphabetically, all the elements for the same address family will be listed together. Also, the names read well. However, it's difficult to relate similar IE's for different address families. However, if we only specify IPv4 or IPv6 at the end of each name, then when the elements are listed alphabetically, elements with the same functionality - but for different address families - will be adjacent to one another. Unfortunately the names don't read so well. Question is whether the names are only useful tags for human readers, or whether we might expect a machine to understand that classOfServiceIP, classOfServiceIPv4 and classOfServiceIPv6 are all related? -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Wed Apr 19 12:36:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWFes-0002PC-Be for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:36:02 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWFer-0003U3-3V for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:36:02 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWFa3-00075r-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:31:03 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWFa1-00075m-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:31:02 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1505D1BAC4D; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:30:57 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Paul Aitken Cc: Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <44465AF7.6010607@cisco.com> References: <44464D9F.8060605@cisco.com> <8BD667E484AC45424DDE3709@[10.1.1.171]> <44465AF7.6010607@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Hi Paul, --On 19.04.2006 16:44 Uhr +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Juergen, > >>> There is also some inconsistency concerning where IP, IPv4 and IPv6 >>> are placed in the IE names: IP usually prefixes the name, while IPv4 >>> and IPv6 are usually in the middle of the name, or suffixes - with >>> the notable exceptions of "ipv4Options" and >>> "ipv6ExtensionHeaders". >>> >>> It's particularly clear here: >>> >>> | 5 | classOfServiceIPv4 | >>> | 55 | postClassOfServiceIPv4 | >>> | 137 | classOfServiceIPv6 | >>> | 138 | postClassOfServiceIPv6 | >> >> >> We also have IPvX in the middle >> >> | 44 | sourceIPv4Prefix | >> | 45 | destinationIPv4Prefix | >> >> and two IPs in one name: >> >> | 62 | ipNextHopIPv6Address | > > > It's clearly a confusing naming convention. The question is: which is a non-confusing one that also works well for ipNextHopIPv6Address? >> I am open to a consistent suggestion for ALL IEs containing IP, IPv4 >> or IPv6. >> >>> | 194 | ipClassOfService | >>> | 195 | ipDiffServCodePoint | >> >> >> What about removing "ip" from these two IE names? > > > If we consistently put { IP | IPv4 | IPv6 } at the start of the names, > then when listing elements alphabetically, all the elements for the same > address family will be listed together. Also, the names read well. > However, it's difficult to relate similar IE's for different address families. > > However, if we only specify IPv4 or IPv6 at the end of each name, then when > the elements are listed alphabetically, elements with the same functionality > - but for different address families - will be adjacent to one another. > Unfortunately the names don't read so well. > > Question is whether the names are only useful tags for human readers, > or whether we might expect a machine to understand that classOfServiceIP, > classOfServiceIPv4 and classOfServiceIPv6 are all related? I do not think machine interpretation of names is a relevant criteria. Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 06:26:48 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWWN6-0001Zq-HG for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:26:48 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWWN4-0006Xg-Vu for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:26:48 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWVv8-0002DL-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:57:54 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWVv7-0002DG-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:57:53 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.171] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547FC1BAC4D for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:53:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:57:53 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Message-ID: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Dear all, When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see a need for still keeping IE flowId? If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. OLD 5.1.7. flowId Description: An identifier of a Flow that is unique within an Observation Domain. This Information Element can be used to distinguish between different Flows if Flow Keys such as IP addresses and port numbers are not reported or are reported in separate records. Abstract Data Type: unsigned32 Data Type Semantics: identifier ElementId: 148 Status: current NEW 5.1.7. commonPropertiesId Description: An identifier of a set of common properties that is unique within an Observation Domain. This ID can be used to link to information reported in separate records. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: identifier ElementId: 148 Status: current Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 07:12:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWX5U-0007Ef-5o for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:12:40 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWX5S-00005h-TZ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:12:40 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWWmU-0005uV-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:53:02 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWWmT-0005uJ-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:53:01 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2006 12:53:01 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3KAr0UE027106; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:53:00 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [144.254.153.60] (dhcp-144-254-153-60.cisco.com [144.254.153.60]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05205; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:52:59 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:52:58 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> In-Reply-To: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Juergen, > When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet > information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element > #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing > redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested > Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see > a need for still keeping IE flowId? > > If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and there might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for each flow to have a unique ID. So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element as a commonPropertiesId. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 07:14:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWX74-0007Oy-5y for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:14:18 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWX72-0000C2-Q7 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:14:18 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWWzJ-0006Mz-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:06:17 -0500 Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.219]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWWzI-0006Ms-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:06:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (tranquillity.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.222]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2205D9326; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:06:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.217]) by localhost (tranquillity [129.132.2.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07721-02-5; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:06:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.102.210] (nb-4995.ethz.ch [82.130.102.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C99D9345; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:06:14 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <44476C73.9010700@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:11:47 +0200 From: Elisa Boschi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Cc: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ee.ethz.ch Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Paul, > > Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and > there might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for > each flow to have a unique ID. > > So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR > drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element as a > commonPropertiesId. actually commonPropertiesID is more generic than flowID. To me, it is the flowID IE to be a special case of the commonPropertiesID IE... cheers, Elisa -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 07:26:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWXIR-0000tJ-40 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:26:03 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWXIP-0000zF-TZ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:26:03 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXDe-00079j-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:21:06 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXDd-00079d-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:21:05 -0500 Received: from [10.147.65.153] (luz@kaitos [10.147.65.153]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k3KBKrn04925; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:20:53 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <44476E94.2060604@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:20:52 +0200 From: Lutz Mark User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060130) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 > Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and there > might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for each flow > to have a unique ID. yes, let's keep the flowID IE. Best regards, Lutz -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 07:36:19 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWXSN-0004jX-Qq for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:36:19 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWXSM-0001g6-HZ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:36:19 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXME-0007kz-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:29:58 -0500 Received: from mx5.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.12.32]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXMD-0007kq-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:29:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by mx5.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293A411C; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:29:55 +0200 (MST) Received: from mx5.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx5 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24200-01; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:29:47 +0200 (DFT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rouen.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.11.152]) by mx5.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C337611B; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:29:46 +0200 (MST) Message-ID: <44477088.4060207@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:29:12 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Cc: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000001090101070407080700" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (McAfee AntiVirus) at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000001090101070407080700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, J=FCrgen, I assume Elisa and Lutz know better but in my opinion, the commonPropertiesId does not relate to a single flow. Instead it is common to multiple flows. Thus, the term flowId would be inappropriate. In my opinion, it's the other way round: flowId is a special case of commonPropertiesId. Ok, I just saw Elisa's mail... ;) Gerhard Paul Aitken wrote: > Juergen, >=20 >> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >> #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >> >> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. >=20 > Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and ther= e > might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for each flow > to have a unique ID. >=20 > So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR draft= s > should specify the more specific use of the flowId element as a > commonPropertiesId. >=20 --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Auf der Morgenstelle 10C 9P16, D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 / Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 EMail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms000001090101070407080700 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEFnnd0ztch8/FKZyDU4aYM8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA2MDIxMDE3MjI0OVoX DTA3MDIxMDE3MjI0OVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXR0-0000JM-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:34:54 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWXQy-0000IB-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:34:52 -0500 Received: from [10.147.65.153] (luz@kaitos [10.147.65.153]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k3KBYnn06738; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:34:49 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <444771D8.8010905@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:34:48 +0200 From: Lutz Mark User-Agent: Mail/News 1.5 (X11/20060130) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] new element: fragmentOffsetIPv6 ? References: <444655E2.5030305@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <444655E2.5030305@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 > We have #88 = fragmentOffsetIPv4 - but no equivalent for IPv6 fragment > offset? > > See section 4.5 of RFC 2460. > > I suggest we allocate #211 for this. > > > BTW, there are also no elements to report Hop-by-Hop Options (section > 4.3) or Destination Options (section 4.6). > for IPv4 this elem is part of the IPv4 header while in IPv6 there is a special extension header for the fragment data. So maybe this should be made clear by the IE name. eg. IPv6ExtHdrFragmentOffset -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 11:18:22 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWavG-0002bo-A8 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:18:22 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWZbN-0000Sg-4y for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:53:45 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWZR5-0001Fh-0g for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:43:08 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWZJG-0006p6-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:35:02 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWZJF-0006oa-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:35:01 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k3KDYvZW013293 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:34:59 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k3KDYEOo013268 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:34:14 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k3KDYABu013263; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.237.240.157] (vpn-10-25-4-16.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.16]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k3KDYA9F031905; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:34:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-2--270878559" Message-Id: <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> Cc: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:34:05 -0400 To: Paul Aitken X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-2--270878559 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Paul and Juergen, flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate information elements. flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, and may be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I can think of at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe it larger than the IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described by two Flow Records linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not be entirely appropriate in this situation, as it does not carry the additional semantic "these records describe the same Flow". commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in many more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key to reference an options record from multiple data records. It is completely "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description of an object. They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on their own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and assigning a new IE number for commonPropertiesId. Regards, Brian On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: > Juergen, > >> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >> #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. > > Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and > there might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for > each flow to have a unique ID. > > So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR > drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element > as a commonPropertiesId. > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ --Apple-Mail-2--270878559 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFER43Q4/8LCZ4pwvYRAs5CAJ47UX9phc7scIjq2YAXXhIRCuB9rACgzwhs GdiCONIiYayWQb9HiPj15Hc= =B/I5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-2--270878559-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 11:40:33 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbGj-0001H6-GI for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:40:33 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbGh-0006Sh-62 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:40:33 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWb7P-0005Jz-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:30:55 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWb7O-0005Ju-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:30:54 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.171] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8EA1BAC4D; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:29:47 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Andrew Johnson , Brian Trammell Cc: Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a OK, let's keep the flowId. But them please check again its specification below. The size of the commonPropertiesId has a size of 64 bit Is 32 bit fine for the flowId? Why would we need less here? Is the description still OK? Thanks, Juergen 5.1.7. flowId Description: An identifier of a Flow that is unique within an Observation Domain. This Information Element can be used to distinguish between different Flows if Flow Keys such as IP addresses and port numbers are not reported or are reported in separate records. Abstract Data Type: unsigned32 Data Type Semantics: identifier ElementId: 148 Status: current 5.1.8. commonPropertiesId Description: An identifier of a set of common properties that is unique within an Observation Domain. This ID can be used to link to information reported in separate records. Abstract Data Type: unsigned64 Data Type Semantics: identifier ElementId: XXX Status: current --On 20.04.2006 15:55 Uhr +0100 Andrew Johnson wrote: > Brian Trammell wrote: >> Paul and Juergen, >> >> flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate information >> elements. >> >> flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, and may >> be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I can think of >> at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe it larger than the >> IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described by two Flow Records >> linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not be entirely appropriate >> in this situation, as it does not carry the additional semantic "these >> records describe the same Flow". >> >> commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in many >> more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key to >> reference an options record from multiple data records. It is completely >> "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description of an object. >> >> They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on their >> own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and assigning a new IE >> number for commonPropertiesId. > > I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although no-one > has advertised that they are using it yet. > > On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: > "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common properties." > > I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, but it > should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties common between > flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a flow. > > Andrew > > >> On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >> >>> Juergen, >>> >>>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>>> # 148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >>>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. >>> >>> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and >>> there might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for >>> each flow to have a unique ID. >>> >>> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >>> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element as a >>> commonPropertiesId. >>> >>> --Paul Aitken >>> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >>> >>> -- >>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>> message body >>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 11:51:46 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbRa-0003kB-FS for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:51:46 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbRZ-00078d-7K for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:51:46 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWbJx-0005vC-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:43:53 -0500 Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.219]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWbJw-0005uP-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:43:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (tranquillity.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.222]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CA2D9316; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:43:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([129.132.2.217]) by localhost (tranquillity [129.132.2.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 23639-01-2; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:43:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.102.210] (nb-4995.ethz.ch [82.130.102.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E3CD9314; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:43:50 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4447AD81.80400@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:49:21 +0200 From: Elisa Boschi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek Cc: Andrew Johnson , Brian Trammell , Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ee.ethz.ch Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c > But them please check again its specification below. > The size of the commonPropertiesId has a size of 64 bit > Is 32 bit fine for the flowId? Why would we need less here? I propose unsigned64 for both... cheers, Elisa -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From alwi@vestigio.com Thu Apr 20 12:10:30 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbji-0003sm-5Q for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:10:30 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbjg-0008Dn-UE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:10:30 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWbeU-0007Bg-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:05:06 -0500 Received: from vestigio.com (ARennes-351-1-55-234.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.126.127.234]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3KG4wir008998 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:05:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66494$21829060$5a73a8c0@fxk30> Reply-To: "Alwilda Bissonette" From: "Alwilda Bissonette" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: VALImjcUM Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:04:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66472.9A70F060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66472.9A70F060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 V / a g r a $ 3 , 3 l S o m &=20 M e r / d i a=20 A m b / e n=20 C / a l i s $ 3 , 7 5 X & n a x=20 V a l / u m $ l , 2 1 =20 http://www.MaafukMcDu.8m.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66472.9A70F060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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http://www.MaafukMcDu.8m.com/<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66472.9A70F060-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 12:24:59 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbxj-00026H-F8 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:24:59 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbxi-0000eX-76 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:24:59 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWbtB-0007md-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:20:17 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWbtA-0007mU-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:20:16 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k3KGJrn26113; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:19:53 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:19:52 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CF5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Thread-Index: AcZkj76PlIVdOH+oQDSC0OosaMGfxwABDSNQ From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Juergen Quittek" , "Andrew Johnson" , "Brian Trammell" Cc: "Paul Aitken" , Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Dear J=FCrgen et al.,=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: majordomo listserver=20 > [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Juergen Quittek > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:30 PM > To: Andrew Johnson; Brian Trammell > Cc: Paul Aitken; ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu > Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element > 5.1.8. commonPropertiesId >=20 > Description: > An identifier of a set of common properties that is unique = within > an Observation Domain. This ID can be used to link to = information > reported in separate records. What about: An identifier of a set of common properties that is unique = within an Observation Domain. This ID can be used to refer from = multiple=20 records to common information reported in separate records.=20 Regards, Carsten. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 12:30:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWc2k-0003kv-Rz for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:30:10 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWbAo-00065Y-Pp for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:34:26 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWahk-0002G3-7F for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:04:25 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWaYz-0002o4-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:55:21 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWaYy-0002nx-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:55:20 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2006 16:55:20 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3KEtJUE010175; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:55:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [144.254.153.40] (dhcp-144-254-153-40.cisco.com [144.254.153.40]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00669; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:55:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:55:18 +0100 From: Andrew Johnson User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell CC: Paul Aitken , Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Brian Trammell wrote: > Paul and Juergen, > > flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate information > elements. > > flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, and may > be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I can think of > at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe it larger than the > IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described by two Flow Records > linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not be entirely appropriate > in this situation, as it does not carry the additional semantic "these > records describe the same Flow". > > commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in many > more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key to > reference an options record from multiple data records. It is completely > "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description of an object. > > They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on their > own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and assigning a new IE > number for commonPropertiesId. I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although no-one has advertised that they are using it yet. On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common properties." I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, but it should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties common between flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a flow. Andrew > On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: > >> Juergen, >> >>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>> #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested below. >> >> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, and >> there might be other uses - other situations where it's useful for >> each flow to have a unique ID. >> >> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element as a >> commonPropertiesId. >> >> --Paul Aitken >> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >> >> -- >> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >> message body >> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 13:01:19 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWcWt-0003fn-9n for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:01:19 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWag3-0003tb-NN for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:02:39 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWaTg-00028H-BA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:49:53 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWaFM-000246-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:35:04 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWaFL-00023x-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:35:03 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2006 16:35:02 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3KEZ1UE004149; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:35:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [144.254.153.60] (dhcp-144-254-153-60.cisco.com [144.254.153.60]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28308; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:35:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <44479C14.8070508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:35:00 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Brian, > flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate information > elements. Having thought about it some more, I agree. > They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on their > own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and assigning a new IE > number for commonPropertiesId. I agree. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 20 13:21:16 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWcqC-0005Uy-11 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:21:16 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWcqA-0003UG-PC for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:21:16 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWcj4-0003Ha-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:13:54 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWcj3-0003HR-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:13:53 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Apr 2006 19:13:53 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3KHDnUE016829; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:13:50 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.58.48.54] ([10.58.48.54]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16986; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:13:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4447C14A.70806@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:13:46 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050811 Fedora/1.7.10-1.2.1.legacy X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Elisa Boschi CC: Juergen Quittek , Andrew Johnson , Brian Trammell , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> <4447AD81.80400@fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <4447AD81.80400@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Elisa Boschi wrote: >>But them please check again its specification below. >>The size of the commonPropertiesId has a size of 64 bit >>Is 32 bit fine for the flowId? Why would we need less here? >> >> > >I propose unsigned64 for both... > With reduced size encoding, it's better to specify the largest base type that will ever be required. Implimentations are free to reduce the size from 64 bits if that's all they need. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Fri Apr 21 09:42:13 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWvtl-0008P2-2s for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:42:13 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FWvtj-0008Hz-RJ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:42:13 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWvNN-0002Bq-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:08:45 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FWvNM-0002B5-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:08:44 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3LD8h103983; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:08:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [144.254.7.108] (dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-108.cisco.com [144.254.7.108]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3LD8hC27290; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:08:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4448D947.4050903@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:08:23 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lutz Mark CC: Paul Aitken , Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] new element: fragmentOffsetIPv6 ? References: <444655E2.5030305@cisco.com> <444771D8.8010905@fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <444771D8.8010905@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Lutz, Paul, > >> We have #88 = fragmentOffsetIPv4 - but no equivalent for IPv6 >> fragment offset? >> >> See section 4.5 of RFC 2460. >> >> I suggest we allocate #211 for this. Since this is a gap in the I.E. list, this makes sense! >> >> >> BTW, there are also no elements to report Hop-by-Hop Options (section >> 4.3) or Destination Options (section 4.6). >> > > for IPv4 this elem is part of the IPv4 header while > in IPv6 there is a special extension header for > the fragment data. So maybe this should be made > clear by the IE name. > > eg. IPv6ExtHdrFragmentOffset Agreed. Regards, Benoit. > > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Fri Apr 21 15:55:40 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FX1jA-0001KV-Io for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:55:40 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FX1j8-000387-9O for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:55:40 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FX1dl-0003yD-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:50:05 -0500 Received: from oak.neustar.com ([209.173.53.70]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FX1dk-0003y4-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:50:04 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by oak.neustar.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3LJo1BX001247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:50:01 GMT Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FX1dh-0006gH-Mk; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [ipfix] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-20.txt Message-Id: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPFIX Protocol Specification Author(s) : B. Claise Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-20.txt Pages : 64 Date : 2006-4-21 This document specifies the IPFIX protocol that serves for transmitting IP traffic flow information over the network. In order to transmit IP traffic flow information from an exporting process to an information collecting process, a common representation of flow data and a standard means of communicating them is required. This document describes how the IPFIX data and templates records are carried over a congestion-aware transport protocol from an IPFIX exporting process to an IPFIX collecting process. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-20.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. 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Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-4-21145911.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-20.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-20.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-4-21145911.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From sria@highstream.net Sat Apr 22 08:51:39 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXHaM-0007OX-9B for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:51:38 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXHaK-0006h8-W7 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:51:38 -0400 Received: from pd954cbdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.84.203.219] helo=highstream.net) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXHSA-00023J-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:43:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c6660a$22766b50$7d0ca8c0@jrl34> Reply-To: "Sri Mcreynolds" From: "Sri Mcreynolds" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: PHARMjdoACY Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:41:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C665E8.9B64CB50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?217.84.203.219 X-RBL-Warning: (dnsbl.njabl.org) X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C665E8.9B64CB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable S e O g M a A p=20 V d A u L s I k U y M m $1 , 21=20 M y E a R x I b D b I k A m=20 C a I m A v L w I n S t $3 , 75=20 A k M o B g I l E v N h=20 X f A g N m A r X j=20 V c I z A j G u R k A x $3 , 33=20 =20 and many other ... =20 =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 routine is to ask for a blackbird-un oiseau noir-and somebody shouts out. If the blackbirds there, contact is made. If he isnt, you try again. Why is it useful? Well try again-and again and again-with a man inside. Whats happening otherwise? I can only give you a limited answer. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C665E8.9B64CB50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
S e O g M a A p
V d A u L s I k U y M m $1 , 21
M y E a R x I b D b I k A m
C a I m A v L w I n S t $3 , 75
A k M o B g I l E v N h
X f A g N m A r X j
V c I z A j G u R k A x $3 , 33
 
 
 
 
routine is to ask for a = blackbird-un oiseau noir-and somebody shouts out. If the blackbirds there, contact is made. If he isnt, you try = again. Why is it useful? Well try again-and again and again-with a man inside. Whats happening otherwise? I can only give you a limited answer.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C665E8.9B64CB50-- From Burt.Bell@cottages-ontario.com Sun Apr 23 15:06:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXjuI-0007Xg-Ch for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:06:06 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXjuE-0003SF-0y for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:06:06 -0400 Received: from [65.246.150.126] (helo=347CAFC8) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXjNC-0004ZR-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:32:13 -0500 Received: from brave8 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:31:47 -0600 Message-Id: <8.1.9.4.7.83579901572010.028a9212@128.104.31.31> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 4 X-Nominal: 9.3 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.andrewscully.com; c=nofws; q=dns; b=hfNQ3Xzjoz6ZUWat9RsjGa33yrALslf2FLn8QE9WcaccOmz7ZLVAI5JUS0z9oV9vO7Uy0FCZUL1Mg4oY6A7tJAAiRbT3WRbO9klagOc4YK9wlnccflXYKJUtIrjogyab; Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:31:47 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Joaquin Rucker" Subject: can't believe this Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd2390513004521" X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?65.246.150.126 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd2390513004521 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:15:06 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXkz2-0006qb-Vn for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:15:06 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXktg-0004zB-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:09:32 -0500 Received: from relay01.pair.com ([209.68.5.15]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXktf-0004z6-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:09:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 29747 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2006 20:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.66?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 23 Apr 2006 20:09:30 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 207.237.36.98 In-Reply-To: <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Brian Trammell , Paul Aitken , Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Carter Bullard Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:09:25 -0400 To: Andrew Johnson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Argus has had a flow-id for 12 years now, so ..., I'd say its being used. And it should be a separate entity. Argus uses it for correlation when a specific flow activity is reported in multiple output records. Understand that the entire concept of flow reporting is that the flow- key identifies the set of common properties, but, it seems attractive to think that there other non-key related common properties. We've wrestled with this concept in argus for about 10 years, encapsulation encodings, common payload characteristics, etc .... and pretty much abandoned the idea, as it was nebulous and confusing. Without specific scoping rules, it doesn't make any sense. Carter On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Andrew Johnson wrote: > Brian Trammell wrote: >> Paul and Juergen, >> flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate >> information elements. >> flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, >> and may be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I >> can think of at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe >> it larger than the IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described >> by two Flow Records linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not >> be entirely appropriate in this situation, as it does not carry >> the additional semantic "these records describe the same Flow". >> commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in >> many more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key >> to reference an options record from multiple data records. It is >> completely "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description >> of an object. >> They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on >> their own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and >> assigning a new IE number for commonPropertiesId. > > I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although no- > one > has advertised that they are using it yet. > > On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: > "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common > properties." > > I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, > but it > should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties > common between > flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a flow. > > Andrew > > >> On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Juergen, >>> >>>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>>> #148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >>>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested >>>> below. >>> >>> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, >>> and there might be other uses - other situations where it's >>> useful for each flow to have a unique ID. >>> >>> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >>> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element >>> as a commonPropertiesId. >>> >>> --Paul Aitken >>> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >>> >>> -- >>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>> message body >>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > Carter Bullard CEO/President QoSient, LLC 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D New York, New York 10022 +1 212 588-9133 Phone +1 212 588-9134 Fax -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From nah@sherborne.com Mon Apr 24 00:36:41 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXsoT-0004xy-90 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:36:41 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXsoS-00054A-W9 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:36:41 -0400 Received: from [201.255.1.147] (helo=sherborne.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXsMR-0004PF-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:07:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66754$8dd38040$8770a8c0@nrz60> Reply-To: "Naheed Engman" From: "Naheed Engman" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: PHcryARMACY Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:07:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66733.06C1E040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66733.06C1E040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X h A q N n A p X x=20 M h E n R e I b D u I s A t=20 V c I p A s G b R r A c=20 A s M j B q I g E q N z=20 C e I v A v L b I f S q=20 S e O h M j A y=20 V f A d L o I j U j M p=20 =20 =20 http://www.diminobag.com =20 =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 You listen to me, Priest Piss Ant. You answer me or I walk out of here and youre a dead monseigneur in a matter of minutes! Very well, Enrique, answered Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, addressing the paneled wall of the sacristy. My message will be triumphantly clear and will shake the very foundations of the Kremlin. Not only did Carlos the Jackal kill the weak pretender Jason Bourne on Soviet soil, he left a ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66733.06C1E040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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You listen to me, Priest Piss Ant. = You answer me or I walk out of here and youre a dead monseigneur in a matter of minutes! Very well, Enrique, answered Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, addressing the paneled wall of the sacristy. My message will be triumphantly clear and will shake the very foundations of the Kremlin. Not only did Carlos the Jackal kill the weak pretender Jason Bourne on Soviet soil, he left = a
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66733.06C1E040-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 24 01:49:48 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXtvk-0003c7-8x for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:48:16 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FXtn2-00086v-UZ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:39:18 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXtiS-0004Eh-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:34:32 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FXtiQ-0004Dk-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:34:30 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9CFB1BAC4D; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:29:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:34:29 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Carter Bullard Cc: Andrew Johnson , Brian Trammell , Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Message-ID: <43E26A42A0F7CDE1EC8BA3A2@[192.168.1.128]> In-Reply-To: References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b2809b6f39decc6de467dcf252f42af1 Hi Carter, Thank you for your comments. The question to be solved is not whether or not we need something like a flow ID, the question was whether or not we need two of them: - the IE we call flowID and - the new more general IE that we call commonPropertiesId. Do you have any advice on this issue? Thanks, Juergen --On 23.04.2006 16:09 Uhr -0400 Carter Bullard wrote: > Argus has had a flow-id for 12 years now, so ..., I'd say its being used. > And it should be a separate entity. Argus uses it for correlation when > a specific flow activity is reported in multiple output records. > > Understand that the entire concept of flow reporting is that the flow- key > identifies the set of common properties, but, it seems attractive to think > that there other non-key related common properties. We've wrestled > with this concept in argus for about 10 years, encapsulation encodings, > common payload characteristics, etc .... and pretty much abandoned > the idea, as it was nebulous and confusing. Without specific scoping > rules, it doesn't make any sense. > > Carter > > On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Andrew Johnson wrote: > >> Brian Trammell wrote: >>> Paul and Juergen, >>> flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate >>> information elements. >>> flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, >>> and may be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I >>> can think of at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe >>> it larger than the IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described >>> by two Flow Records linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not >>> be entirely appropriate in this situation, as it does not carry >>> the additional semantic "these records describe the same Flow". >>> commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in >>> many more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key >>> to reference an options record from multiple data records. It is >>> completely "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description >>> of an object. >>> They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on >>> their own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and >>> assigning a new IE number for commonPropertiesId. >> >> I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although no- >> one >> has advertised that they are using it yet. >> >> On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: >> "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common >> properties." >> >> I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, >> but it >> should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties >> common between >> flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a flow. >> >> Andrew >> >> >>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >>>> Juergen, >>>> >>>>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>>>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>>>> # 148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>>>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>>>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone see >>>>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>>>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested >>>>> below. >>>> >>>> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, >>>> and there might be other uses - other situations where it's >>>> useful for each flow to have a unique ID. >>>> >>>> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >>>> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element >>>> as a commonPropertiesId. >>>> >>>> --Paul Aitken >>>> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>>> message body >>>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> >> -- >> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >> message body >> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> > > Carter Bullard > CEO/President > QoSient, LLC > 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D > New York, New York 10022 > > +1 212 588-9133 Phone > +1 212 588-9134 Fax > > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 24 12:04:06 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY3Xi-0006NO-6e for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:04:06 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY3Xg-0003UP-QD for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:04:06 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY38p-0006Aw-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:38:23 -0500 Received: from relay01.pair.com ([209.68.5.15]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY38o-0006Ab-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:38:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 68636 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2006 15:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.66?) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 24 Apr 2006 15:38:19 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 207.237.36.98 In-Reply-To: <43E26A42A0F7CDE1EC8BA3A2@[192.168.1.128]> References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> <43E26A42A0F7CDE1EC8BA3A2@[192.168.1.128]> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4709250B-552D-4B54-ABAE-434943D2E9EB@qosient.com> Cc: Andrew Johnson , Brian Trammell , Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Carter Bullard Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:38:18 -0400 To: Juergen Quittek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd Well, I did. There is an important need for a flow id, but there is very limited use for a commonPropertiesId. Its an attractive concept, and one that works great, when scoping rules are very strict, say in a persistent data file, but, in all, when building a compression algorithm for an infinite stream of data, this type of technique is unworkable and unscalable, or rather doesn't compress very well (in some cases increases the number of bytes). There are a large number of scenarios where any combination of objects that you would want to compress become huge and unmanageable, such as compressing IPv6 addresses. Obviously there are more IPv6 addresses than commonPropertiesIds and template ids combined, so what do you do when some one scans your IPv6 address space and they've sent the 2^64+1 IPv6 address, in say less than 120 seconds? Well you'll have to invalidate the commonPropertiesIds, somehow, or just not compress any more, and of course, if the commonPropertiesIds are all used up with single packet object identifiers, you'll make the system much worse than better. In order to make this scheme work in all situations you have to build a very complex mechanism. But the biggest issue is that this is a data compression strategy, and the literature has many many many papers on what the issues are in compressing infinite streams. This type of strategy (persistent token compression) has its problems in processing complexity, token identification and scoping and performance when dealing with infinite streams and the input is arbitrary. Hard to say that the input is not arbitrary. Carter On Apr 24, 2006, at 1:34 AM, Juergen Quittek wrote: > Hi Carter, > > Thank you for your comments. > > The question to be solved is not whether or not we need > something like a flow ID, the question was whether or not > we need two of them: > - the IE we call flowID and > - the new more general IE that we call commonPropertiesId. > > Do you have any advice on this issue? > > Thanks, > > Juergen > > > --On 23.04.2006 16:09 Uhr -0400 Carter Bullard wrote: > >> Argus has had a flow-id for 12 years now, so ..., I'd say its >> being used. >> And it should be a separate entity. Argus uses it for correlation >> when >> a specific flow activity is reported in multiple output records. >> >> Understand that the entire concept of flow reporting is that the >> flow- key >> identifies the set of common properties, but, it seems attractive >> to think >> that there other non-key related common properties. We've wrestled >> with this concept in argus for about 10 years, encapsulation >> encodings, >> common payload characteristics, etc .... and pretty much abandoned >> the idea, as it was nebulous and confusing. Without specific scoping >> rules, it doesn't make any sense. >> >> Carter >> >> On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Andrew Johnson wrote: >> >>> Brian Trammell wrote: >>>> Paul and Juergen, >>>> flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate >>>> information elements. >>>> flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, >>>> and may be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I >>>> can think of at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe >>>> it larger than the IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described >>>> by two Flow Records linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not >>>> be entirely appropriate in this situation, as it does not carry >>>> the additional semantic "these records describe the same Flow". >>>> commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in >>>> many more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key >>>> to reference an options record from multiple data records. It is >>>> completely "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description >>>> of an object. >>>> They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on >>>> their own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and >>>> assigning a new IE number for commonPropertiesId. >>> >>> I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although no- >>> one >>> has advertised that they are using it yet. >>> >>> On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: >>> "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common >>> properties." >>> >>> I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, >>> but it >>> should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties >>> common between >>> flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a >>> flow. >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >>>>> Juergen, >>>>> >>>>>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>>>>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>>>>> # 148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>>>>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>>>>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does anyone >>>>>> see >>>>>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>>>>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested >>>>>> below. >>>>> >>>>> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, >>>>> and there might be other uses - other situations where it's >>>>> useful for each flow to have a unique ID. >>>>> >>>>> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >>>>> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element >>>>> as a commonPropertiesId. >>>>> >>>>> --Paul Aitken >>>>> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>>>> message body >>>>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>>>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>>>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >>> >>> -- >>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>> message body >>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >>> >> >> Carter Bullard >> CEO/President >> QoSient, LLC >> 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D >> New York, New York 10022 >> >> +1 212 588-9133 Phone >> +1 212 588-9134 Fax >> >> > > > Carter Bullard CEO/President QoSient, LLC 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D New York, New York 10022 +1 212 588-9133 Phone +1 212 588-9134 Fax -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Mon Apr 24 15:33:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY6oO-0003vk-QS for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:33:32 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY6oN-0005WY-Ao for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:33:32 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY6gD-0007BM-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:25:05 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY6gC-0007BH-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:25:04 -0500 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.19) with ESMTP id k3OJP18W002247 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:25:02 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id k3OJNSko002174 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:23:28 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id k3OJNJni002163; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.237.249.43] (vpn-10-25-4-5.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.5]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.56) with ESMTP id k3OJNJnU006756; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:23:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4709250B-552D-4B54-ABAE-434943D2E9EB@qosient.com> References: <966E805DD49B57BB7FCC6A9F@[10.1.1.171]> <4447680A.3080309@cisco.com> <7511CBB2-43E3-402B-A3C0-31B9F0E8E667@cert.org> <4447A0D6.4070100@cisco.com> <43E26A42A0F7CDE1EC8BA3A2@[192.168.1.128]> <4709250B-552D-4B54-ABAE-434943D2E9EB@qosient.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-2-95670737" Message-Id: <6536CD04-CA65-444D-AA5B-398E4F6B3608@cert.org> Cc: Juergen Quittek , Andrew Johnson , Paul Aitken , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [ipfix] flowId Information Element Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:23:15 -0400 To: Carter Bullard X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.000005 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5fb88b8381f3896aeacc5a021513237b This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-2-95670737 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Carter, Agreed fully on flowId - I'd missed the Argus-like case where each Flow may be represented by multiple records emitted to meet reporting delay constraints with delta counters, where flowId can be used to assist re-aggregation at the collector side. The commonPropertiesId IE (herein cpId) evolves very clearly from the scope mechanism defined by the IPFIX protocol. Each of the existing scope identifiers is bound to a specific data model or architecture object; cpId simply provides a method for implementing one-to-many relationships among records without overloading the usage of one of the "bound" scopes; specifically, we as a working group seem frequently to be tempted to abuse templateId this way... The various complications regarding scope lifetime are not unique to cpId; indeed, they _already exist_ in the protocol, with templates, with observation domains, with flowIds, with identifiers for the various processes within the architecture, and so on. Collectors and exporters are already required to manage scopes (as an aside, Andrew Johnson and I are presently working on a draft to address this complexity in scope management). Yes, cpId can be used as a record-level compression mechanism, and yes, as such it's not especially efficient with respect to degree of compression. The issue with compression is that stream compression would break the separability of records within sets, sets within messages, and so on; and in general, efficient block compression requires blocks larger than the MTU we see in packet- or segment- sized IPFIX messages. When using cpId to implement compression, one makes an explicit tradeoff between efficiency and separability -- not to mention, that a message stream using cpId is IPFIX-compliant, while there is no support for general-purpose compression of message streams in the present revision of the protocol. cpId can also be used as a general purpose linking mechanism, which may be useful in situations when both the collector and exporter have multi-table internal data models. Were the introduction of cpId to introduce new scope management problems, I'd be wary of its inclusion in the information model. But the complexity is already there; we might as well make full use of what we're paying for. Regards, Brian On Apr 24, 2006, at 11:38 AM, Carter Bullard wrote: > Well, I did. There is an important need for a flow id, but there is > very limited use for a commonPropertiesId. Its an attractive > concept, and one that works great, when scoping rules are very > strict, say in a persistent data file, but, in all, when building a > compression algorithm for an infinite stream of data, this type of > technique is unworkable and unscalable, or rather doesn't > compress very well (in some cases increases the number of > bytes). > > There are a large number of scenarios where any combination of > objects that you would want to compress become huge and > unmanageable, such as compressing IPv6 addresses. Obviously > there are more IPv6 addresses than commonPropertiesIds and template > ids combined, so what do you do when some one scans your IPv6 address > space and they've sent the 2^64+1 IPv6 address, in say less than 120 > seconds? Well you'll have to invalidate the commonPropertiesIds, > somehow, > or just not compress any more, and of course, if the > commonPropertiesIds > are all used up with single packet object identifiers, you'll make > the system > much worse than better. In order to make this scheme work in all > situations > you have to build a very complex mechanism. > > But the biggest issue is that this is a data compression strategy, and > the literature has many many many papers on what the issues are > in compressing infinite streams. This type of strategy > (persistent token > compression) has its problems in processing complexity, token > identification and scoping and performance when dealing with infinite > streams and the input is arbitrary. Hard to say that the input is > not > arbitrary. > > Carter > > > > On Apr 24, 2006, at 1:34 AM, Juergen Quittek wrote: > >> Hi Carter, >> >> Thank you for your comments. >> >> The question to be solved is not whether or not we need >> something like a flow ID, the question was whether or not >> we need two of them: >> - the IE we call flowID and >> - the new more general IE that we call commonPropertiesId. >> >> Do you have any advice on this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> >> --On 23.04.2006 16:09 Uhr -0400 Carter Bullard wrote: >> >>> Argus has had a flow-id for 12 years now, so ..., I'd say its >>> being used. >>> And it should be a separate entity. Argus uses it for >>> correlation when >>> a specific flow activity is reported in multiple output records. >>> >>> Understand that the entire concept of flow reporting is that the >>> flow- key >>> identifies the set of common properties, but, it seems attractive >>> to think >>> that there other non-key related common properties. We've wrestled >>> with this concept in argus for about 10 years, encapsulation >>> encodings, >>> common payload characteristics, etc .... and pretty much abandoned >>> the idea, as it was nebulous and confusing. Without specific >>> scoping >>> rules, it doesn't make any sense. >>> >>> Carter >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Andrew Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> Brian Trammell wrote: >>>>> Paul and Juergen, >>>>> flowId and commonPropertiesId are two logically separate >>>>> information elements. >>>>> flowId is specifically bound to the definition of an IPFIX Flow, >>>>> and may be useful in certain situations. Off the top of my head I >>>>> can think of at least one: if a flow requires a record to describe >>>>> it larger than the IPFIX message MTU, the Flow could be described >>>>> by two Flow Records linked by flowId. commonPropertiesId would not >>>>> be entirely appropriate in this situation, as it does not carry >>>>> the additional semantic "these records describe the same Flow". >>>>> commonPropertiesId is, on the other hand, a generic IE useful in >>>>> many more situations; indeed, any situation where one needs a key >>>>> to reference an options record from multiple data records. It is >>>>> completely "virtual"; it's part of a mechanism, not a description >>>>> of an object. >>>>> They are different enough in meaning, and each useful enough on >>>>> their own, that I would suggest keeping flowId as is, and >>>>> assigning a new IE number for commonPropertiesId. >>>> >>>> I agree with this. I think we want to keep the flowId, although >>>> no- >>>> one >>>> has advertised that they are using it yet. >>>> >>>> On a slight tangent, from IPFIX-PROTO: >>>> "All packets belonging to a particular Flow have a set of common >>>> properties." >>>> >>>> I still think commonPropertiesId is the right name for this field, >>>> but it >>>> should be made clear that the commonProperties are properties >>>> common between >>>> flows, usually a sub-set of the commonProperties which define a >>>> flow. >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Paul Aitken wrote: >>>>>> Juergen, >>>>>> >>>>>>> When Elisa and her co-authors wrote the draft on per-packet >>>>>>> information export, they requested the IPFIX Information Element >>>>>>> # 148 flowId. Now that their draft has evolved towards reducing >>>>>>> redundancy, their requirements have changed and the requested >>>>>>> Information Element is called commonPropertiesId. Does >>>>>>> anyone see >>>>>>> a need for still keeping IE flowId? >>>>>>> If not, I will replace it with commonPropertiesId as suggested >>>>>>> below. >>>>>> >>>>>> Seems to me that commonPropertiesId is just one use of flowId, >>>>>> and there might be other uses - other situations where it's >>>>>> useful for each flow to have a unique ID. >>>>>> >>>>>> So IPFIX should specify the generic flowId element, and the PP/RR >>>>>> drafts should specify the more specific use of the flowId element >>>>>> as a commonPropertiesId. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Paul Aitken >>>>>> Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>>>>> message body >>>>>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>>>>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>>>>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >>>> message body >>>> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >>>> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >>>> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >>>> >>> >>> Carter Bullard >>> CEO/President >>> QoSient, LLC >>> 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D >>> New York, New York 10022 >>> >>> +1 212 588-9133 Phone >>> +1 212 588-9134 Fax >>> >>> >> >> >> > > Carter Bullard > CEO/President > QoSient, LLC > 150 E. 57th Street Suite 12D > New York, New York 10022 > > +1 212 588-9133 Phone > +1 212 588-9134 Fax > > --Apple-Mail-2-95670737 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFETSWm4/8LCZ4pwvYRAizhAKDb9PMLj/y7h4d+vm6fvYhiCN9JAgCg32J9 OGaO2DCjcrUjbnuW0WK7RAw= =tue0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-2-95670737-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From chartierfrannie@oekopharm.com Mon Apr 24 16:33:50 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY7kk-0003CP-2t for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY7ki-0000eF-IW for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from [62.117.161.212] (helo=oekopharm.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY7eW-0005Tg-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:27:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c667dd$6b9db9d0$91f3a8c0@vdd50> Reply-To: "Frannie Chartier" From: "Frannie Chartier" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: your PHAckcRM Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:26:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C667BB.E48C19D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?62.117.161.212 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f60fbf3dbcaca652b6d10036f0630412 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C667BB.E48C19D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 V o I i A j G p R i A a b $ r 3 n , e 3 c 3 j=20 =20 =20 X q A w N w A p X z=20 =20 =20 V c A a L d I m U x M y z $ w 1 s , a 2 a 1 i=20 =20 =20 C w I p A w L c I g S o u $ a 3 b , j 7 c 5 t=20 =20 =20 http://www.kesabanusevin.com S p A d V x E t q O n V j E o R g y 7 a 0 m % i n W n I a T m H i u O t U m R n c S a H k O y P s ! z=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 after the storm.=20 Excellent, sir. And Ill stay in radio contact with developments.=20 Perhaps you shouldnt. Anything can be picked up out there.=20 I only meant so as to advise you when to return-at the appropriate=20 moment to make a most advantageous appearance. Ill fill you in, of course.=20 Yes, of course. Youre a good man, Henry.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C667BB.E48C19D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
V o I i A j G p R i A a   b $ r 3 n , e 3 c 3 j
 
 
X q A w N w A p X z
 
 
V c A a L d I m U x M y   z $ w 1 s , a 2 a 1 i
 
 
C w I p A w L c I g S o   u $ a 3 b , j 7 c 5 t
 
 
http://www.kesabanusevin.com
S p A d V x E t   q O n V j E o R g   y 7 a 0 m % i   n W n I a T m H i   u O t U m R n   c S a H k O y P s ! z
 
 
 
 
after the storm.
Excellent, sir. = And Ill stay in radio contact with developments.
Perhaps you = shouldnt. Anything can be picked up out there.
I only meant so as = to advise you when to return-at the appropriate
moment to make a = most advantageous appearance. Ill fill you in, of course.
Yes, of = course. Youre a good man, Henry.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C667BB.E48C19D0-- From flewme@clarkson.wa.edu.au Mon Apr 24 17:18:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY8SD-0000tk-Fw for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:18:45 -0400 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY7aq-0008PD-D9 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:23:36 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FY7La-0008Sh-3q for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:07:52 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FY7Dg-0003BL-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:59:40 -0500 Received: from 3AC2B338 (82-40-208-93.stb.ubr09.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk [82.40.208.93]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3OJxZDw021346 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:59:38 -0500 Received: from winemake6 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:59:38 -0600 Message-Id: <9.0.9.8.5.44294802738805.471a3396@144.92.9.43> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 2 X-Nominal: 8.3 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.eecis.udel.edu; c=nofws; q=dns; b=OPzV6xOYLlK3wJYLQZmSWmi3vSYq7Y1D2A465Rd3QOITauH1ySXIFJZdoQINViOSmzpEbdvWuRsa35XAPNBiqFZUdlnPDqIo08MqdsYO7p3GIRWS9aEmlUox1mO36gK9; Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:59:38 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Esther Nieves" Subject: you aren't mad at me right? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd5079774589686" X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd5079774589686 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
it dot , needful on eigenspace may litany a neuroanatomic on ragweed in dichotomy on cretinous , cosy a aerospace be acropolis it hurtle some shelby on epitaxial
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Daniel" Subject: black? 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see articulatory not fastidious the automorphic not imbrue it bewilder may assemblage , bebop not expropriate , apply the walrus ! kinematic see milky
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:50:42 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYPoE-0006J8-M7 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:50:41 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYPgI-0000Qz-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:42:26 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYPgF-0000Qa-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:42:23 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2006 17:42:23 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3PFgLUE009343; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:42:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [64.103.84.235] ([64.103.84.235]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25850; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:42:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <444E4357.7090008@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:42:15 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmoll, Carsten" CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CAC@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CAC@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > > Some more small comments inline: > > >>>I support adding them to the info model. >>>Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types. >> >>Shall we call it signed8 or signedOctet? >>currently we only have octet and not unsigned8. > > > Then I would say to go for signedOctet. > > >>I do not see a real need for signed64. >>This is hardly used even as data type in programs. > > > Ok. I can do without sugned64. All the 64bit values > in use are counters and they all are clearly unsigned. > ... but it's only a few lines of trivial text and it completes the specification. Just to contrive a use, suppose you were reporting the difference in bytes over the elements of path split, i.e. A-B, then you would need signed64. - Stewart - Stewart -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From beamjf@baratelli.com Tue Apr 25 12:08:02 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYQ53-0006k0-VR for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:08:01 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYQ51-0007RU-6o for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:08:01 -0400 Received: from [221.215.196.49] (helo=12703A8) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYPtW-00023q-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:56:06 -0500 Received: from depression4 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:55:51 -0600 Message-Id: <5.9.5.5.1.50444956558270.635a0455@128.104.31.31> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 6 X-Nominal: 5.4 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.asharirae.com; c=nofws; q=dns; b=xorTiBw7sTOC5KuJSCZjDLTzs2taCUpmM07NAkMdIGZM6JbVjitGB8BEZcuCvWGfFp8hFkyv6wmIeyRnWYLEX6jXXJgv24E4qSAErJGendtd79FvffqhxvikHU2RJG4O; Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:55:51 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Desiree Sierra" Subject: do you like pizza? 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a rock or journeyman on meretricious a resign the councilman or adrienne ! twig try posable it bland it's sterling , ablution ! photometry
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:39:58 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYQZw-0001Vc-Vc for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:39:58 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYQUp-0000dq-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:34:39 -0500 Received: from mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de ([193.174.154.14]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYQUn-0000dY-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:34:37 -0500 Received: from EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de (bohr [10.147.9.231]) by mailhub.fokus.fraunhofer.de (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id k3PGYUn15179; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:34:30 +0200 (MEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:34:26 +0200 Message-ID: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Thread-Index: AcZofudjFSbWYL9iT9aA+DzL+INlQAABKwnQ From: "Schmoll, Carsten" To: "Stewart Bryant" Cc: "Juergen Quittek" , Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Dear Stewart,=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]=20 > > Carsten wrote: > > Ok. I can do without signed64. All the 64bit values=20 > > in use are counters and they all are clearly unsigned. > >=20 >=20 > ... but it's only a few lines of trivial text and it > completes the specification. >=20 > Just to contrive a use, suppose you were reporting the > difference in bytes over the elements of path split, > i.e. A-B, then you would need signed64. >=20 > - Stewart I'm fine with both, and I see your point. The question is really whether we go for briefness or for completeness. It is similar to the do-we-need-floats- discussion. I agree adding those few lines will not hurt, nor make any implementation more complicated. It would be something like=20 " 3.1.x signed64 The type "signed64" represents an integer value in the range of -9223372036854775808 to 9223372036854775807. " and " 3.1.y float64=20 =20 The float64 data type MUST be encoded as an IEEE double-precision=20 64-bit floating point-type, as specified in [IEEE.754.1985].=20 " respectively (which is already in the protocol draft as 6.1.4). @J=FCrgen, one really minor typo in the ipfix-info-11 draft: 3.1.6. boolean The type "boolean" represents a binary value. The only allowed values are "true" and false. " " are missing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Regards, Carsten. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 25 13:14:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYR6x-0000wA-OV for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYR6v-0003Lk-Ec for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYQzi-0004OA-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:06:34 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYQzh-0004Ny-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:06:33 -0500 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2006 19:06:34 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id k3PH6WUE029507; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:06:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [64.103.84.235] ([64.103.84.235]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05549; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:06:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <444E5716.3080400@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:06:30 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmoll, Carsten" CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Looks good. My desire for completeness of the basic types is to make sure that there is consistency amongst the IEs defined outside the WG by the IETF and by vendors. - Stewart Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > Dear Stewart, > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > > >>>Carsten wrote: >>>Ok. I can do without signed64. All the 64bit values >>>in use are counters and they all are clearly unsigned. >>> >> >>... but it's only a few lines of trivial text and it >>completes the specification. >> >>Just to contrive a use, suppose you were reporting the >>difference in bytes over the elements of path split, >>i.e. A-B, then you would need signed64. >> >>- Stewart > > > I'm fine with both, and I see your point. > > The question is really whether we go for briefness > or for completeness. It is similar to the do-we-need-floats- > discussion. I agree adding those few lines will not hurt, > nor make any implementation more complicated. > > It would be something like > > " > 3.1.x signed64 > > The type "signed64" represents an integer value in the range of > -9223372036854775808 to 9223372036854775807. > " > > and > > " > 3.1.y float64 > > The float64 data type MUST be encoded as an IEEE double-precision > 64-bit floating point-type, as specified in [IEEE.754.1985]. > " > > respectively (which is already in the protocol draft as 6.1.4). > > > @Jürgen, > > one really minor typo in the ipfix-info-11 draft: > > 3.1.6. boolean > > The type "boolean" represents a binary value. The only allowed > values are "true" and false. > " " are missing. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > Regards, > Carsten. > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 25 14:38:20 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYSQW-0006t1-LK for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:38:20 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYSQV-0007zY-EA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:38:20 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYSDa-0000OK-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:24:58 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYSDZ-0000OB-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:24:57 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42221BAC4D; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:19:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:25:04 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: "Schmoll, Carsten" , Stewart Bryant Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: RE: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 --On 25.04.2006 18:34 Uhr +0200 Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > one really minor typo in the ipfix-info-11 draft: > > 3.1.6. boolean > > The type "boolean" represents a binary value. The only allowed > values are "true" and false. > " " are missing. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Fixed. Thanks, Juergen -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Tue Apr 25 14:38:23 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYSQZ-0006tD-N7 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:38:23 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYSQZ-0007zb-Eb for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:38:23 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYSCB-0000Hb-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:23:31 -0500 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYSC9-0000HK-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:23:30 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.128] (HSI-KBW-085-216-002-068.hsi.kabelbw.de [85.216.2.68]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680841BAC4D; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:18:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:23:35 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Stewart Bryant , "Schmoll, Carsten" Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <444E5716.3080400@cisco.com> References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9E0A@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> <444E5716.3080400@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 Hi Stewart and Carsten, To conclude: We add the following data types to the IPFIX info model: signed8 (I don't think anymore that signedOctet is a reasonable type name) signed16 signed32 signed64 float64. Benoit, would you update the encoding section in the protocol document? We need to add a section 6.1.2. on encoding signed data types and we need to add a paragraph to section 6.2 "Reduced Size Encoding of Integer Types" on how to reduce the size of signed data types. Thanks, Juergen --On 25.04.2006 18:06 Uhr +0100 Stewart Bryant wrote: > Looks good. > > My desire for completeness of the basic types is to make > sure that there is consistency amongst the IEs defined outside > the WG by the IETF and by vendors. > > - Stewart > > > Schmoll, Carsten wrote: > >> Dear Stewart, >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >> >> >>>> Carsten wrote: >>>> Ok. I can do without signed64. All the 64bit values >>>> in use are counters and they all are clearly unsigned. >>>> >>> >>> ... but it's only a few lines of trivial text and it >>> completes the specification. >>> >>> Just to contrive a use, suppose you were reporting the >>> difference in bytes over the elements of path split, >>> i.e. A-B, then you would need signed64. >>> >>> - Stewart >> >> >> I'm fine with both, and I see your point. >> >> The question is really whether we go for briefness >> or for completeness. It is similar to the do-we-need-floats- >> discussion. I agree adding those few lines will not hurt, >> nor make any implementation more complicated. >> >> It would be something like >> >> " >> 3.1.x signed64 >> >> The type "signed64" represents an integer value in the range of >> -9223372036854775808 to 9223372036854775807. >> " >> >> and >> >> " >> 3.1.y float64 >> >> The float64 data type MUST be encoded as an IEEE double-precision >> 64-bit floating point-type, as specified in [IEEE.754.1985]. >> " >> >> respectively (which is already in the protocol draft as 6.1.4). >> >> >> @J=FCrgen, >> >> one really minor typo in the ipfix-info-11 draft: >> >> 3.1.6. boolean >> >> The type "boolean" represents a binary value. The only allowed >> values are "true" and false. >> " " are missing. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >> Regards, >> Carsten. >> -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Stewart.Witherspoon@agtrade.com Tue Apr 25 17:58:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYVYM-0006gV-2U for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:58:38 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FYVYK-0002aQ-Oe for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:58:38 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FYVT8-0001Qa-00; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:53:14 -0500 Received: from 3B7263C0 (20151242027.user.veloxzone.com.br [201.51.242.27]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3PLr6rL021379; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:53:09 -0500 Received: from moiseyev9 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:53:07 -0600 Message-Id: <1.1.9.9.6.62696845256953.192a4434@144.92.9.43> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 0 X-Nominal: 1.5 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.babbleco.freeserve.co.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; b=55OTlctUJFYYzPdhmoju1E0Aw1wFah9ypFmaAS1Ld9hwoNOW6YQdctFoXZdYufZvgZOQ6ezYW7tLSkQ1RdeF4cGoZqQ8FXaniNNPDcmUcNnstfTqGPZfrAhGa79K2nhj; Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:53:07 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Roderick Queen" Subject: bahaha Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd2702910368859" X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd2702910368859 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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To start, visit http://www.mainvalue.net From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 05:40:03 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ2yh-0007NF-3d for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:40:03 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ2yf-0000DO-Sj for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:40:03 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2Yx-0001pR-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:13:27 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2Yv-0001oz-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:13:25 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9DM216267; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:13:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9DLC03023; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:13:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44508B31.1060508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:13:21 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell CC: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <549C2ECF-ADCF-4975-8A84-B679AD1EB379@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <549C2ECF-ADCF-4975-8A84-B679AD1EB379@cert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Thanks Brian, corrected. Regards, Benoit. > Benoit, > > One minor typographical edit, below > >>> - As proposed by Brian Trammell, I clarified: >>> >>> Append to the second paragraph to 10.2.4.3 Stream: >>> "Only fully reliable bidirectional streams are available if >>> TLS [TLS] as used, as required by RFC 3436." > is used > > Regards, > > Brian > -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 05:43:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ32A-0007zG-JA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:43:38 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ328-0000dw-WF for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:43:38 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2XG-0001b2-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:11:42 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2XF-0001an-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:11:41 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9BaF16168; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:11:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9BWC01952; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44508AC4.9030100@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:11:32 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" CC: "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-19.txt References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010007090708010703060903" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8a961490db2a74c7613bf0201229f176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010007090708010703060903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bert, Due the a rare problem with the copyright year in the protocol draft version 20 (problem that I haven't spot at the posting time, before my vacation), the was not posted until a few days ago. Sorry for the inconvenience. Note: the problem was not discovered by idnits and the idnits author has been notified. Only keeping the ongoing comments in your email below. > >> - sect 10.2.6 >> Where/how is the treshold specified? >> Same for sect 10.4.1.1 >> >> I'm not sure how to answer the questions: >> Where? on the exporter >> > > So you could add that > Previous sentence: The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association exceeds a specified threshold. New sentence: The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association exceeds a specified threshold, configurable on the Exporter. > >> How? based on the user appreciation. This is exactly why >> we have a MAY statement. >> We could say "exceeds a locally configured threshold. By >> default this time is foo secs." However, I have no clue what >> the value of foo should be. >> If the statements are too vague without the default value, I >> simply propose to remove them. >> >> > > So does nobody have an idea what "foo" would be? > It depends so much on the capabilities of the SCTP exponential backoff feature, that we were thinking to leave open... instead of fixing an arbitrary value. > > >> - sect 12.1 >> I do not think the IPfix version number is an IANA controlled thing. >> I also think you want that to be changebale only by an IETF standards >> action (as opposed to just IETF consensus). Afetr all you want this >> protocol to be stds track. >> >> It was actually the intend behind the sentence: >> >> "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments >> require an IETF Consensus, i.e. they are to be made via RFCs >> approved by the IESG." >> >> Should we simply erase the section 12.1? >> Or make clearer? >> "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments >> are not controlled by IANA, but by an RFC approved by the IESG." >> >> > > I think if you make it "Standards Action" instead of "IETF Consensus" that > you cover it best and that that also represents what you say is intended. > It makes sense to me now. (re-read RFC 2434 in the mean time) Previous sentence: "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments require an IETF Consensus, i.e. they are to be made via RFCs approved by the IESG." New sentence: "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments require an Standards Action [RFC 2434], i.e. they are to be made via Standards Track RFCs approved by the IESG." >> >> - Sect 12.1 >> The "IPFIX Set ID" starts (I think) a new registry. So you MUST >> describe under IANA considerations how to set it up and what the >> rules are for new assignements. You have that text (more or less) in >> sect 3.3.2, but you must spell it out here for IANA as well. >> >> New section "12.x Set ID" >> >> Set ID value identifies the IPFIX Set. Set ID values of 0 and >> 1 are not used for historical reasons [RFC3954]. A value of 2 >> is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved >> for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 >> are reserved for future use. Values above 255 are used for Data Sets. >> The new Set ID values are defined as "Specification Required" >> [RFC 2434] prior to the assignment by IANA. >> >> > > If you do "Specification Required", does that mean RFC? > Or some vendor specific document? > Or some other SDO? > Or what? > > Even if the specification is available, do you want some expert review? > IANA does not have the subjetc matter expertise to judge if a specification > iw well enough to justify a new assignment. > Taking into consideration the previous remark, here is the new IANA section (no more sub-sections) Considerations for assigning them are discussed in this section, using the example policies as set out in the "Guidelines for IANA Considerations" document IANA-RFC [RFC2434]. IPFIX Messages use two fields with assigned values. These are the IPFIX Version Number, indicating which version of the IPFIX Protocol was used to export an IPFIX Message, and the IPFIX Set ID, indicating the type for each set of information within an IPFIX Message. Set ID values of 0 and 1 are not used for historical reasons [RFC3954]. A value of 2 is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 are reserved for future use. Values above 255 are used for Data Sets. Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments require an Standards Action [RFC 2434], i.e. they are to be made via Standards Track RFCs approved by the IESG. > >> - It seems to me that sect 13 is more an APPENDIX and so non-normative? >> Might be good to then list it as appendix and state that it is >> non-normative. >> >> I moved the appendix just before the reference section. >> ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/instructions2authors.txt >> doesn't mention that we should mention something about non-normative >> ... unless I missed something? >> > > It is just best to be explicit if such a section is or is not normative. > We have done so in many earlier RFCs. > New initial sentence for this section This appendix, which is a not a normative reference, contains IPFIX encoding examples. Thanks again for your feedback. Let me post a new version of the draft by today. Regards, Benoit. --------------010007090708010703060903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bert,

Due the a rare problem with the copyright year in the protocol draft version 20 (problem that I haven't spot at the posting time, before my vacation), the was not posted until a few days ago. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Note: the problem was not discovered by idnits and the idnits author has been notified.

Only keeping the ongoing comments in your email below.

- sect 10.2.6
  Where/how is the treshold specified?
  Same for sect 10.4.1.1
  
I'm not sure how to answer the questions:
    Where? on the exporter
    

So you could add that
Previous sentence: 
   The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association 
   exceeds a specified threshold. 

New sentence:
   The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association 
   exceeds a specified threshold, configurable on the Exporter.

  
    How? based on the user appreciation. This is exactly why 
we have a MAY statement.
We could say "exceeds a locally configured threshold. By 
default this time is foo secs." However, I have no clue what 
the value of foo should be.
If the statements are too vague without the default value, I 
simply propose to remove them.

    

So does nobody have an idea what "foo" would be?
It depends so much on the capabilities of the SCTP exponential backoff feature, that we were thinking to leave open... instead of fixing an arbitrary value.

   
- sect 12.1
  I do not think the IPfix version number is an IANA controlled thing.
  I also think you want that to be changebale only by an IETF standards
  action (as opposed to just IETF consensus). Afetr all you want this
  protocol to be stds track. 
  
It was actually the intend behind the sentence:

   "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments 
   require an IETF Consensus, i.e. they are to be made via RFCs 
   approved by the IESG."

Should we simply erase the section 12.1?
Or make clearer?
   "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments 
   are not controlled by IANA, but by an RFC approved by the IESG." 

    

I think if you make it "Standards Action" instead of "IETF Consensus" that
you cover it best and that that also represents what you say is intended.
It makes sense to me now. (re-read RFC 2434 in the mean time)

Previous sentence: 
   "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments 
   require an IETF Consensus, i.e. they are to be made via RFCs 
   approved by the IESG."
New sentence:
   "Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments 
   require an Standards Action [RFC 2434], i.e. they are to be made via Standards 
   Track RFCs approved by the IESG."


- Sect 12.1
  The "IPFIX Set ID" starts (I think) a new registry. So you MUST
  describe under IANA considerations how to set it up and what the
  rules are for new assignements. You have that text (more or less) in
  sect 3.3.2, but you must spell it out here for IANA as well.
  
New section "12.x Set ID"

Set ID value identifies the IPFIX Set. Set ID values of 0 and 
1 are not used for historical reasons [RFC3954]. A value of 2 
is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved 
for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 
are reserved for future use. Values above 255 are used for Data Sets. 
The new Set ID values are defined as "Specification Required" 
[RFC 2434] prior to the assignment by IANA.

    

If you do "Specification Required", does that mean RFC?
Or some vendor specific document?
Or some other SDO?
Or what?

Even if the specification is available, do you want some expert review?
IANA does not have the subjetc matter expertise to judge if a specification
iw well enough to justify a new assignment.
Taking into consideration the previous remark, here is the new IANA section (no more sub-sections)

Considerations for assigning them are discussed in this section, using the example policies as set out in the "Guidelines for IANA Considerations" document IANA-RFC [RFC2434].

IPFIX Messages use two fields with assigned values.  These are the IPFIX Version Number, indicating which version of the IPFIX Protocol was used to export an IPFIX Message, and the IPFIX Set ID, indicating the type for each set of information within an IPFIX Message.  Set ID values of 0 and 1 are not used for historical reasons [RFC3954].  A value of 2 is reserved for the Template Set.  A value of 3 is reserved for the Option Template Set.  All other values from 4 to 255 are reserved for future use. Values above 255 are used for Data Sets. 

Changes in either IPFIX Version Number or IPFIX Set ID assignments require an Standards Action [RFC 2434], i.e. they are to be made via Standards Track RFCs approved by the IESG.



- It seems to me that sect 13 is more an APPENDIX and so non-normative?
  Might be good to then list it as appendix and state that it is 
  non-normative.
  
I moved the appendix just before the reference section.
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/instructions2authors.txt 
doesn't mention that we should mention something about non-normative 
... unless I missed something?
    

It is just best to be explicit if such a section is or is not normative.
We have done so in many earlier RFCs.
New initial sentence for this section

This appendix, which is a not a normative reference, contains IPFIX encoding examples.



Thanks again for your feedback.
Let me post a new version of the draft by today.

Regards, Benoit.
--------------010007090708010703060903-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 05:59:18 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ3HK-0000FL-MR for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:59:18 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ3HK-0001RA-AK for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 05:59:18 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2qh-0004hw-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:31:47 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ2qg-0004hl-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:31:46 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9Vhi17602; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:31:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3R9VgC20366; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:31:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44508F7D.7030908@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:31:41 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sven Anderson CC: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] Questions of understanding References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15509BDA538@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <4435349A.1070605@CS.Uni-Goettingen.DE> In-Reply-To: <4435349A.1070605@CS.Uni-Goettingen.DE> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040902060306050702070903" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd3fc8e909678b38737fc606dec187f0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040902060306050702070903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sven, > Hi all, > > I will take the opportunity to ask two questions of understanding. Maybe > someone can take a short moment to help me out. > > >>> The Template lifetime at >>> the Collecting Process MUST be at least 3 times higher that the >>> Template refresh timeout configured on the Exporting Process. >>> > > How can the Collecting Process make this sure? I can't remember, that > there was a way for the Exporting Process to tell the Template refresh > timeout. So this is a "MUST" in a protocol specification which is not > covered by the protocol itself? (If I decide to use IPFIX without a > parallel configuration protocol, this "MUST" goes to the administrator?) > In case of UDP, you must have a lifetime on the Collector. This lifetime MUST be bigger than the refresh time by a factor of 3 in case some UDP packets are missed. That's right the spec. doesn't specify how to export the refresh timeout, even if that could be done easily with an option template record... We choose not to describe in order not to overload the spec. with yet another option template record. Most of the time, leaving the default value for the template refresh timeout on all the exporters would logically point to the value of the template lifetime on the collector. > >>> is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved >>> for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 >>> > > Side note: You are mixing "Option Template Records", "Options Template > Records" and "Options Templates Records" all over the document. Is this > intended? > No. "Options Template Records" is the right one. Corrected. Thanks. > I never really understood the purpose of Option Template Records and > Scopes. Isn't every Flow Key, that is, everything but counters, a kind of > scope? When I have two linecards, it doesn't make a difference, if I have > two Metering Processes on each of them, "tagging" the flows with a > lineCardId (where you could use Scopes), or if I have one Metering > Process, and the Flows have a normal lineCardID Flow Key. It will result > in the same Flows. So for what exactly do you _need_ scopes? > A good example of the scope is described at draft-boschi-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-01 Regards, Benoit. > > Thanks and cheers, > > Sven > > --------------040902060306050702070903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sven,
Hi all,

I will take the opportunity to ask two questions of understanding. Maybe
someone can take a short moment to help me out.

  
   The Template lifetime at 
   the Collecting Process MUST be at least 3 times higher that the 
   Template refresh timeout configured on the Exporting Process.  
      

How can the Collecting Process make this sure? I can't remember, that
there was a way for the Exporting Process to tell the Template refresh
timeout. So this is a "MUST" in a protocol specification which is not
covered by the protocol itself? (If I decide to use IPFIX without a
parallel configuration protocol, this "MUST" goes to the administrator?)
In case of UDP, you must have a lifetime on the Collector. This lifetime MUST be bigger than the refresh time by a factor of 3 in case some UDP packets are missed.
That's right the spec. doesn't specify how to export the refresh timeout, even if that could be done easily with an option template record... We choose not to describe in order not to overload the spec. with yet another option template record. Most of the time, leaving the default value for the template refresh timeout on all the exporters would logically point to the value of the template lifetime on the collector.
  
is reserved for the Template Set. A value of 3 is reserved 
for the Option Template Set. All other values from 4 to 255 
      

Side note: You are mixing "Option Template Records", "Options Template
Records" and "Options Templates Records" all over the document. Is this
intended?
No. "Options Template Records" is the right one.
Corrected. Thanks.
I never really understood the purpose of Option Template Records and
Scopes. Isn't every Flow Key, that is, everything but counters, a kind of
scope? When I have two linecards, it doesn't make a difference, if I have
two Metering Processes on each of them, "tagging" the flows with a
lineCardId (where you could use Scopes), or if I have one Metering
Process, and the Flows have a normal lineCardID Flow Key. It will result
in the same Flows. So for what exactly do you _need_ scopes?
A good example of the scope is described at draft-boschi-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-01

Regards, Benoit.

Thanks and cheers,

Sven

--------------040902060306050702070903-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 08:07:27 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ5HL-00070F-Nl for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:07:27 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ5HL-0008Uh-AK for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:07:27 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ5C8-0005GR-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:02:04 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ5C7-0005GE-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:02:03 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RC1xt27674; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:01:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RC1rC20220; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:01:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4450B2B1.6020704@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:01:53 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000609050306060709010606" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000609050306060709010606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juergen, Brian, > Brian, > > Thank you for your suggestions. > Please find replies inline. > > --On 18.04.2006 17:20 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote: > >> Juergen, >> >> A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline... >> >> On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: >> >>>> - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 >>>> Is it best to speak about Mask? >>>> Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? >>> >>> renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength >>> and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength >> >> what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs? > > Right. I missed them. Fixed it by changing also the destination > masks to destination prefix lengths. > >>>> - sect 5.8 >>>> Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels >>>> of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? >>> >>> For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for >>> applications with different precision requirements. >> >> It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305) >> encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7, >> 6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and >> nanosecond information elements is an estimation of >> precision. Since NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200 >> picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller >> than 1ns for nanosecond IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs. > > I think this is an issue for the protocol document. > >> Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed >> that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and >> nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol >> document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type >> definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to >> RFC1305 in the information model? > > No, the information model does not request a specific encoding for time > stamps. It should be possible to use it with different time stamp > formats. > >> Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out >> once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation >> guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element >> names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in >> English - e.g. "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that >> does not exist >> ("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while >> we have the chance. > > You are right. I changed it. To be consistent, I also had to > change the data types dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds. > To be consistent, we also need to apply this change in the protocol > document. Done. I now have in [IPFIX-PROTO]: flowStartMilliseconds, flowStartMicroseconds, flowStartNanoseconds, flowStartDeltaMicroseconds flowEndMilliseconds, flowEndMicroseconds, flowEndNanoseconds, flowEndDeltaMicroseconds flowStartDeltaMicroseconds, flowEndDeltaMicroseconds dateTimeseconds, dateTimeMilliseconds, dateTimeNanoseconds dateTimeMicroseconds Regards, Benoit. --------------000609050306060709010606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juergen, Brian,
Brian,

Thank you for your suggestions.
Please find replies inline.

--On 18.04.2006 17:20 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote:

Juergen,

A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline...

On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote:

- Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5
  Is it best to speak about Mask?
  Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better?

renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength
and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength

what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs?

Right. I missed them.  Fixed it by changing also the destination
masks to destination prefix lengths.

- sect 5.8
  Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels
  of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)??

For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for
applications with different precision requirements.

It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305)
encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7,
6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and
nanosecond information elements is an estimation of
precision. Since  NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200
picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller
than 1ns for nanosecond  IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs.

I think this is an issue for the protocol document.

Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed
that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and
nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol
document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type
definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to
RFC1305 in the information model?

No, the information model does not request a specific encoding for time
stamps.  It should be possible to use it with different time stamp formats.

Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out
once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation
guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element
names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in
English - e.g.  "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that does not exist
("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while
we have the chance.

You are right.  I changed it.  To be consistent, I also had to
change the data types dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds.
To be consistent, we also need to apply this change in the protocol
document.
Done. 
I now have in [IPFIX-PROTO]:

flowStartMilliseconds,
flowStartMicroseconds, 
flowStartNanoseconds,
flowStartDeltaMicroseconds

flowEndMilliseconds,
flowEndMicroseconds, 
flowEndNanoseconds, 
flowEndDeltaMicroseconds

flowStartDeltaMicroseconds,
flowEndDeltaMicroseconds

        dateTimeseconds,
        dateTimeMilliseconds,
        dateTimeNanoseconds
        dateTimeMicroseconds

Regards, Benoit.
--------------000609050306060709010606-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 08:46:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ5tW-0005gf-Rj for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:46:54 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ5tW-0002No-E0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:46:54 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ5nv-0005cz-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:41:07 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ5nt-0005cQ-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:41:06 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RCetF00270; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:40:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RCeoC25926; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:40:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4450BBD1.50209@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:40:49 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise CC: Juergen Quittek , Brian Trammell , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt References: <4450B2B1.6020704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4450B2B1.6020704@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050501070100060701060706" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1e467ff145ef391eb7b594ef62b8301f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050501070100060701060706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Benoit Claise wrote: > Juergen, Brian, >> Brian, >> >> Thank you for your suggestions. >> Please find replies inline. >> >> --On 18.04.2006 17:20 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote: >> >>> Juergen, >>> >>> A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline... >>> >>> On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> >>>>> - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 >>>>> Is it best to speak about Mask? >>>>> Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? >>>> >>>> renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength >>>> and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength >>> >>> what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs? >> >> Right. I missed them. Fixed it by changing also the destination >> masks to destination prefix lengths. >> >>>>> - sect 5.8 >>>>> Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels >>>>> of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? >>>> >>>> For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for >>>> applications with different precision requirements. >>> >>> It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305) >>> encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7, >>> 6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and >>> nanosecond information elements is an estimation of >>> precision. Since NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200 >>> picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller >>> than 1ns for nanosecond IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs. >> >> I think this is an issue for the protocol document. >> >>> Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed >>> that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and >>> nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol >>> document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type >>> definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to >>> RFC1305 in the information model? >> >> No, the information model does not request a specific encoding for time >> stamps. It should be possible to use it with different time stamp >> formats. >> >>> Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out >>> once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation >>> guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element >>> names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in >>> English - e.g. "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that >>> does not exist >>> ("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while >>> we have the chance. >> >> You are right. I changed it. To be consistent, I also had to >> change the data types dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds. >> To be consistent, we also need to apply this change in the protocol >> document. > Done. > I now have in [IPFIX-PROTO]: > > flowStartMilliseconds, > flowStartMicroseconds, > flowStartNanoseconds, > flowStartDeltaMicroseconds > > flowEndMilliseconds, > flowEndMicroseconds, > flowEndNanoseconds, > flowEndDeltaMicroseconds > > flowStartDeltaMicroseconds, > flowEndDeltaMicroseconds > > dateTimeseconds, Oops. dateTimeSeconds Regards, Benoit. > dateTimeMilliseconds, > dateTimeNanoseconds > dateTimeMicroseconds > > Regards, Benoit. --------------050501070100060701060706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Benoit Claise wrote:
Juergen, Brian,
Brian,

Thank you for your suggestions.
Please find replies inline.

--On 18.04.2006 17:20 Uhr -0400 Brian Trammell wrote:

Juergen,

A couple of brief questions and suggestions, inline...

On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote:

- Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5
  Is it best to speak about Mask?
  Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better?

renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength
and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength

what about the destinationIPv(4,6)Mask IEs?

Right. I missed them.  Fixed it by changing also the destination
masks to destination prefix lengths.

- sect 5.8
  Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels
  of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)??

For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for
applications with different precision requirements.

It may additionally be worth noting that by using NTP (RFC1305)
encoding for microseconds and nanoseconds (see protocol-19 6.1.7,
6.1.8), the only real difference between the microsecond and
nanosecond information elements is an estimation of
precision. Since  NTP timestamps have a resolution of about 200
picoseconds, Collecting Processes SHOULD ignore differences smaller
than 1ns for nanosecond  IEs and 1us for microsecond IEs.

I think this is an issue for the protocol document.

Also, while checking up on references for this suggestion, I noticed
that the only reference to the actual encoding of the microsecond and
nanosecond IEs is in the data type definition in the protocol
document. Should the encoding not also appear in the data type
definition in the information model, adding a normative reference to
RFC1305 in the information model?

No, the information model does not request a specific encoding for time
stamps.  It should be possible to use it with different time stamp formats.

Also also, while I'm talking timestamps, I would like to point out
once more section 5.5 of the -01 rev of the implementation
guidelines: the capitalization of the timestamp information element
names are inconsistent with the SI time unit names in
English - e.g.  "flowStartMicroSeconds" implies a word break that does not exist
("microseconds", not "micro seconds") - and should be corrected while
we have the chance.

You are right.  I changed it.  To be consistent, I also had to
change the data types dateTimeXXXXSeconds to dateTimeXXXXseconds.
To be consistent, we also need to apply this change in the protocol
document.
Done. 
I now have in [IPFIX-PROTO]:

flowStartMilliseconds,
flowStartMicroseconds, 
flowStartNanoseconds,
flowStartDeltaMicroseconds

flowEndMilliseconds,
flowEndMicroseconds, 
flowEndNanoseconds, 
flowEndDeltaMicroseconds

flowStartDeltaMicroseconds,
flowEndDeltaMicroseconds

        dateTimeseconds,
Oops. dateTimeSeconds

Regards, Benoit.
        dateTimeMilliseconds,
        dateTimeNanoseconds
        dateTimeMicroseconds

Regards, Benoit.

--------------050501070100060701060706-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 09:14:08 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ6Js-0005Yx-Su for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:14:08 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZ6Jq-000428-Gn for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:14:08 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ6B9-0003B0-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:05:07 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZ6B7-0003A9-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:05:05 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RD53D02005; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:05:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RD52C20617; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:05:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4450C17E.4010200@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:05:02 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Schmoll, Carsten" CC: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model References: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CA5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <70524A4436C03E43A293958B505008B61B9CA5@EXCHSRV.fokus.fraunhofer.de> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040605030300030508070605" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040605030300030508070605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by av-tac-bru.cisco.com id k3RD53D02005 Carsten, > J=FCrgen, > > I support adding them to the info model. > Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types. > > related question 1:=20 > should we say somewhere that floating point types are always signed? > > related question 2: > Is there any special care to be taken when transmitting signed > numbers using reduced size encoding? (anyway, if so then a > sentence about it would need to go to the impl guidelines draft) > =20 We do have in [IPIFX-PROTO]. The same signed versus unsigned property MUST=20 be preserved.=20 After discussing with Juergen, we came up with a better sentence. The signed versus unsigned property of the reported value MUST be preser= ved. =20 Regards, Benoit. > Regards, > Carsten. > > > =20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: majordomo listserver=20 >> [mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Juergen Quittek >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:20 PM >> To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu >> Subject: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model >> >> Dear all, >> >> While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed >> adding signed data types. We do not need them now, but several >> WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future >> extensions. >> >> I suggest adding signed16 and signed32. >> >> Are there any objections or suggestions for alternative choices? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> -- >> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help"=20 >> in message body >> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> >> >> =20 > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in messag= e body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ > =20 --------------040605030300030508070605 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carsten, 
Jürgen,

I support adding them to the info model.
Don't forget about signed8 + 64 types.

related question 1: 
 should we say somewhere that floating point types are always signed?

related question 2:
 Is there any special care to be taken when transmitting signed
 numbers using reduced size encoding? (anyway, if so then a
 sentence about it would need to go to the impl guidelines draft)
We do have in [IPIFX-PROTO].
   The same signed versus unsigned property MUST 
   be preserved. 

After discussing with Juergen, we came up with a better sentence.
	The signed versus unsigned property of the reported value MUST be preserved.   

Regards, Benoit.
Regards,
Carsten.


  
-----Original Message-----
From: majordomo listserver 
[mailto:majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Juergen Quittek
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:20 PM
To: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu
Subject: [ipfix] signed data types for the info model

Dear all,

While editing the info model, I found a note that we discussed
adding signed data types.  We do not need them now, but several
WG members suggested having them in order to be open for future
extensions.

I suggest adding signed16 and signed32.

Are there any objections or suggestions for alternative choices?

Thanks,

    Juergen

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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:41:12 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZDIT-0001Zu-Nx for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:41:10 -0400 Received: from 20151161111.user.veloxzone.com.br ([201.51.161.111] helo=lindesberg.se) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZD8C-0004hK-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:30:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66a39$6f6fdd00$9f54a8c0@hzw14> Reply-To: "Jaromir Cola" From: "Jaromir Cola" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: eeayn news Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:30:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C669FE.C3110500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?201.51.161.111 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C669FE.C3110500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dea x r Home O u wne a r ,=20 =20 Your c k red x it doesn't matter to us ! If you OW l N real e p st c at v e=20 and want I a MMED t IA h TE cas x h to sp i en p d ANY way you like, or simply wish=20 to LO n WER your monthly p l aym x ents by a third or more, here are the d k eals=20 we have T e OD g AY :=20 =20 $ 48 u 8 , 000 at a 3 q , 67% f b ixed - rat g e=20 $ 3 p 72 , 000 at a 3 e , 90% va e riab p le - rat u e=20 $ 49 k 2 , 000 at a 3 , 2 a 1% inte s res q t - only=20 $ 2 a 48 , 000 at a 3 , i 36% fi h xed - rat w e=20 $ 19 x 8 , 000 at a 3 g , 55% varia c ble - rat d e=20 =20 H y urry, when these de z aIs are gone, they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about a q pprov c al, your cr z edi e t will not di a squali u fy you !=20 =20 V w isi l t our sit k e =20 =20 Sincerely, Jaromir Cola=20 =20 Ap h prov v al Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C669FE.C3110500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dea x r Home O u wne a r ,
 
Your c k red x it doesn't matter to us !=20 If you OW l N real e p st c at v e
and want I a MMED t IA h TE cas x h to sp i en p d ANY=20 way you like, or simply wish
to LO n WER your monthly p l aym x ents=20 by a third or more, here are the d k eals
we have T e OD g AY :
 
$ 48 u 8 , 000 at a 3 q , 67% f b ixed - rat g e
$ 3 p 72 , 000 at a 3 e , 90% va e riab p le - rat u e
$ 49 k 2 , 000 at a 3 , 2 a 1% inte s res q t - only
$ 2 a 48 , 000 at a 3 , i 36% fi h xed - rat w e
$ 19 x 8 , 000 at a 3 g , 55% varia c ble - rat d e
 
H y urry, when these de z aIs are gone, they are gone !
 
Don't worry about a q pprov c al, your cr z edi e t will=20 not di a squali u fy you !
 
=20 V w isi l t our sit k e
 
Sincerely, Jaromir Cola
 
Ap h prov v al Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C669FE.C3110500-- From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 17:29:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZE3K-0006uA-Jq for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:29:34 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZE3I-0003vw-Ul for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:29:34 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZDxj-0002iV-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:23:47 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZDxi-0002iQ-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:23:46 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLNjc02955; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:23:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLNiC13161; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:23:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4451365F.6040805@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:23:43 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nevil Brownlee CC: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [ipfix] Proposed new charter for IPFIX (version 01) References: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <20060409220334.ihjs6kp66begwsgc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070401050206050105040501" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d094b18a574860cb9e2fe5fedfbcc179 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070401050206050105040501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nevil, After reading the full thread, I agree with all the comments. My main concern has been perfectly expressed by Juergen: For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best-practice method for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for jointly selecting one. Regards, Benoit. > > Hi all: > > We've now had discussion of 'new IPFIX work items' on the list for > about two weeks, with strong support for the Implementation Guide, > Testing and Redundancy drafts, and clearly expressed support for the > IPFIX MIB and Biflows drafts. I've taken Juergen's earlier draft > of a new IPFIX charter and reworked it to cover these five drafts. > I've also set out what I think are reasonable milestones for them. > > Please read the PROPOSED new charter carefully, and send your comments > on it to the IPFIX list. I'll revise it from time to time over the next > few weeks; I'd like to give it to our ADs for approval by IESG fairly > soon, let's say "by 30 April 06." > > One other thing. Dave Plonka intends to stand down as IPFIX co-chair; > after discussion among the current IPFIX and PSAMP co-chairs, we suggest > that Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek chair the rechartered IPFIX WG. > Feedback on that (including suggestions for other possible co-chairs) > would also be welcome! > > Cheers, Nevil > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITSS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand > > > > ============================== > PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX version 01, 9 Apr 06 > ============================== > > The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to > describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data > from IPFIX exporters to collectors). The PSAMP working group has > specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet > records. With both specifications available, several implementers have > started building applications using the IPFIX protocol. > > At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol > implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events were > fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing > ambiguities. In addition, several lessons were learned about how to > implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently. The exchange among > different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of > IPFIX. Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual > Internet drafts. > > The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current > practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation, > application and usage of the IPFIX protocol. > > Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP > protocol specifications. In scope is the definition of new IPFIX > and PSAMP information elements. > > Specific Goals > > o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences > gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability > testing events. The guidelines will give recommendations for > integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and > exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of > IPFIX devices. They will make suggestions for efficient > implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of > the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by > several implementors. For some implementation choices that the > protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines will > discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices. > Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements; > The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for requesting, > reviewing and approving new IEs. > Deliverables: 1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be an > Informational RFC > (6 months) > 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) > > o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX > protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports. The basic idea > to be followed is very simple. For multiple flow records that all > report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX > information elements, those values are removed from the flow > records and instead reported once for all in a separate record. > Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and > only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship > between flow records and corresponding separate records. > Deliverable: > 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC (6 months) > > o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics > of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes. Much of this > work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by > individuals working on IPFIX collectors. Deliverable: > 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months) > > o Develop an effective method for exporting information about > bidirectional flows ('biflows'). The IP security community has > expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows. > A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to > support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single, > best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes > to the IPFIX protocol. > Deliverable: > 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months) > > > Milestones: > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation Guidelines > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX > data transfer > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB > > August 06 Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX Bidirectional Flows > > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > November 06 Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC > > > March 07 Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for > publication as Standards track RFC > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ --------------070401050206050105040501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nevil,

After reading the full thread, I agree with all the comments.
My main concern has been perfectly expressed by Juergen:
For the bi-flow story, we have not yet agreed on the "single, best-practice method
for handling them" and more discussion appears to be necessary for jointly selecting
one.

Regards, Benoit.

Hi all:

We've now had discussion of 'new IPFIX work items' on the list for
about two weeks, with strong support for the Implementation Guide,
Testing and Redundancy drafts, and clearly expressed support for the
IPFIX MIB and Biflows drafts.  I've taken Juergen's earlier draft
of a new IPFIX charter and reworked it to cover these five drafts.
I've also set out what I think are reasonable milestones for them.

Please read the PROPOSED new charter carefully, and send your comments
on it to the IPFIX list.  I'll revise it from time to time over the next
few weeks; I'd like to give it to our ADs for approval by IESG fairly
soon, let's say "by 30 April 06."

One other thing.  Dave Plonka intends to stand down as IPFIX co-chair;
after discussion among the current IPFIX and PSAMP co-chairs, we suggest
that Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek chair the rechartered IPFIX WG.
Feedback on that (including suggestions for other possible co-chairs)
would also be welcome!

Cheers, Nevil

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Nevil Brownlee                 Computer Science Department | ITSS
  Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941           The University of Auckland
  FAX: +64 9 373 7453      Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand



==============================
PROPOSED new charter for IPFIX   version 01, 9 Apr 06
==============================

The IPFIX working group has specified the Information Model (to
describe IP flows) and the IPFIX protocol (to transfer IP flow data
from IPFIX exporters to collectors).  The PSAMP working group has
specified the usage of the IPFIX protocol for exporting packet
records. With both specifications available, several implementers have
started building applications using the IPFIX protocol.

At two interoperability testing events, several IPFIX protocol
implementations were tested. The experiences made at these events were
fed back to IPFIX protocol specification, particularly for removing
ambiguities.  In addition, several lessons were learned about how to
implement and use IPFIX correctly and efficiently.  The exchange among
different implementers further led to new ideas for advanced usage of
IPFIX.  Many of these ideas are currently documented in individual
Internet drafts.

The goal of the IPFIX working group is now to produce 'best current
practice' and 'guideline' documents concerning implementation,
application and usage of the IPFIX protocol.

Out of scope are modifications to the core IPFIX and PSAMP
protocol specifications.  In scope is the definition of new IPFIX
and PSAMP information elements.

Specific Goals

o Develop guidelines for implementers based on experiences
 gained individually by implementers and jointly at interoperability
 testing events.  The guidelines will give recommendations for
 integrating IPFIX observation points, measurement processes, and
 exporting processes into the packet flow at different kinds of
 IPFIX devices.  They will make suggestions for efficient
 implementation of the IPFIX protocol features and identify parts of
 the IPFIX specification that have already been misunderstood by
 several implementors.  For some implementation choices that the
 protocol specification leaves to the implementer, the guidelines will
 discuss advantages and disadvantages of the different choices.
 Several recent individual drafts call for new Information Elements;
 The implementation guidelines will explain procedures for requesting,
 reviewing and approving new IEs.
 Deliverables:  1. IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft, to be an Informational RFC
      (6 months)
 2. IPFIX Testing draft, to be an Informational RFC  (6 months)

o Develop methods and means for an efficient use of the IPFIX
 protocol by reducing redundancy in flow reports.  The basic idea
 to be followed is very simple.  For multiple flow records that all
 report the same value in one or more of the contained IPFIX
 information elements, those values are removed from the flow
 records and instead reported once for all in a separate record.
 Such an approach integrates very well with the IPFIX protocol and
 only needs a few simple methods for expressing the relationship
 between flow records and corresponding separate records.
 Deliverable:
 3. IPFIX Reducing Reduncy, to be an Informational RFC  (6 months)

o Create an IPFIX MIB, for reporting information and statistics
 of IPFIX metering, exporting and collecing processes.  Much of this
 work has already been done by the PSAMP working group, and by
 individuals working on IPFIX collectors.   Deliverable:
 4. IPFIX MIB, to be an Informational RFC (12 months)

o Develop an effective method for exporting information about
 bidirectional flows ('biflows').  The IP security community has
 expressed a strong need to collect data on bidrectional flows.
 A recent individual draft discusses several different ways to
 support biflows in IPFIX - this work will produce a single,
 best-practice method for handling them, without requiring changes
 to the IPFIX protocol.
 Deliverable:
 5. IPFIX Biflow draft, to be a Standards Track RFC (6 months)


Milestones:

August 06    Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Implementation Guidelines

August 06    Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX Testing

August 06    Publish Internet Draft on Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX data transfer

August 06    Publish Internet Draft on IPFIX MIB

August 06    Publish Internet Draft on Handling IPFIX Bidirectional Flows


November 06  Submit IPFIX Implementation Guidelines draft to IESG for
            publication as Informational RFC

November 06  Submit IPFIX Testing draft to IESG for
            publication as Informational RFC

November 06  Submit IPFIX Reducing Redundancy draft to IESG for
            publication as Informational RFC

November 06  Submit IPFIX Biflows draft to IESG for
            publication as Informational RFC


March 07     Submit IPFIX MIB draft to IESG for
            publication as Standards track RFC

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--------------070401050206050105040501-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 17:49:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZEMj-0008Jk-PQ for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:49:37 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZEMi-00054F-0o for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:49:37 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZEHa-0004F7-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:44:18 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZEHZ-0004F2-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:44:17 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLiDT04102; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:44:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLiAC27642; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:44:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44513B2A.7020107@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:44:10 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 81ca0cebdb446e1ff4e2b634791f24a9 Hi Juergen, > Hi Bert, > > Many thanks for the detailed comments. > Please find replies inline. > > Dear all, > > Please check my replies and please speak up quickly > if you have problems with what I suggested. > > Most issues should be closed by the replies. > > The following ones definitely need further work. > I will address them in a follow-up message: > > - INFO-AD#1: Do reported statistics include or exclude the > reporting IPFIX message? Affected IEs are > #40 exportedOctetTotalCount > #41 exportedMessageTotalCount > #42 exportedFlowTotalCount All of the counters exclude the reporting IPFIX Message > > - INFO-AD#2: Does IE #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > report the number of flows or the number of flow records? > > - INFO-AD#3: Is it OK to change dataty of IEs > #16 bgpSourceAsNumber > #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber > from unsiogned16 to unsigned32? RFC 3954 specifies already 32 bits Source BGP autonomous SRC_AS 16 N system number where N could be 2 or 4. By default N is 2 Destination BGP autonomous DST_AS 17 N system number where N could be 2 or 4. By default N is 2 Anyway, we've got the reduced size encoding, so unsigned32 makes sense. > > - INFO-AD#4: How to add new label types to the definition of > IE #46 mplsTopLabelType? The references from RFC 3954 have been assigned by the NetFlow development team MPLS_TOP_LABEL_TYPE 46 1 MPLS Top Label Type: 0x00 UNKNOWN 0x01 TE-MIDPT 0x02 ATOM 0x03 VPN 0x04 BGP 0x05 LDP I could not find any IANA registry for that. So I guess we have only one choice, i.e. assign a new registry for it in IANA. Regards, Benoit. > > - INFO-AD#5: Explain in the capabilities and limitations of the > different dateTimeXX data types. > > - INFO-AD#6: > Review last paragraph of section 7. > > - INFO-AD#7: > Elaborate security considerations > > Thanks, > > Juergen > > >> - sect 5.5.x >> Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long >> (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows >> based on the underlying datatype? > > I will work on a text suggestion. > > > --On 17.03.2006 17:42 Uhr +0100 Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > >> Sorry that it took so long (if I say it 4 times, i.e. >> for each doc I have reviewed, will you please forgive me). >> >> Seems that a new rev might be in order ?? >> >> Bert >> >> - bottom of page 8. enterpriseId - >> it speaks about "Information Element Identifier described above" >> I do not see where "above" it is described. In fact, I think the >> Identifier is described in sect 4, no? > > Oooops, the Element Id is a mandatory element and not listed above. > This was a problem of the code generating this section from the schema. > Now, the list of mandatory IE properties contains in addition between > 'name' and 'description' the following property: > > "elementId - A numeric identifier of the Information Element. If this > identifier is used without an enterprise identifier (see below), > then it is globally unique and the list of allowed values is > administered by IANA. It is used for compact identification of an > Information Element when encoding templates in the protocol." > >> - In the 3 paragraphs of sect 3 and 3.1, I would insert the word >> "abstract" >> in from of each occurrence of "data type(s)". >> Also the title of sect 3.1 probably reads better as "Abstract Data >> Types". > > done. > >> - sect 3.1.9 >> "it is expected that strings will be encoded in UTF-8" >> That does not make it interoperable, does it? >> Would it not be better to say "strings MUST be encoded..." >> And I would add a citation and reference to RFC3629. > > done. > added RFC3629 as normative reference. > >> - sect 3.2 >> s/future protocol extensions/future information model extensions/ ?? > > fixed, and also in section 3.1. > >> - page 16 >> What are ID 211 and 212 ?? blank ?? reserved?? something else? >> I see the explanation on page 17. I'd suggest to make them RESERVED >> or OBSOLLETE or DEPRECATEd or give them some name with the note >> that they are not part of the standard. > > I used RESERVED. Maybe we can solve the issues of these two elements > before submitting the next version. > >> - section 5 1st sentence >> s/Flow attributes/Information Elements/ ?? > > fixed. > >> - sections 5.1.3, 5.1.4., 5.1.5 and 5.1.6 >> I worry about referential integrety when the ifIndex gets stored >> in offline/archive storage. On a reboot, many devices renumber the >> ifIndex for various interfaces. >> Is this not a problem? I'd think it is at least something to >> mention/discuss/warn for. > > added > > "Please note that ifIndex > values are not assigned statically to an interface. > Interfaces may be renumbered every time the device is > rebooted." > > to the description of 5.1.3 and 5.1.4. > > added > > "Please note that > process identifiers are typically assigned dynamically. > After a reboot, a system failure, a crash of the Metering > Process, etc. the Metering Process may be re-started > with a different ID. > > to the description of 5.1.5 and 5.1.6. For 5.1.6 "Metering" > was replaced with "Exporting". > >> - sect 5.2.3 >> Is the message that contains this Information Element included in the >> count?? May want to make that clear for better interoperability. >> Same for some of the other exportXXXCounters > > INFO-AD#1: > These IEs are specified to be compatible with NetFlow v9. > I'm checking with my co-authors from Cisco which alternative > was chosen for NF v9. > > When I have this information, I will remove the ambiguity > from the descriptions of IEs > #40 exportedOctetTotalCount > #41 exportedMessageTotalCount > #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > >> - sect 5.2.5 >> Text says: number of flow records >> But in Units it says: flows >> So what is it? >> Same for sect 5.2.9 > > INFO-AD#2: > This is another NF v9 compatible IE. As above, I will check > and make sure that description and units are consistent. > >> - sect 5.2.8 >> Does the count include header octets? > > added clarification: > > OLD > Description: > The total number of octets in observed IP packets that the > Metering Process did not process since the (re-)initialization of > the Metering Process. > NEW > Description: > The total number of octets in observed IP packets (including the > IP header) that the Metering Process did not process since the > (re-)initialization of the Metering Process. > >> - sect 5.2.12 >> It is not clear/sopecific as to which bit is bit zero, bit one etc. > > I am not sure what is the problem here, but I tried to clarify > the description: > > OLD > Description: > This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information > Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit > represents an Information Element in the Data Record with the n-th > bit representing the n-th Information Element. A set bit with > value 1 indicates that the corresponding Information element is a > Flow Key of the reported Flow. A value of 0 indicates that this > is not the case. ... > NEW > Description: > This set of bit fields is used for marking the Information > Elements of a Data Record that serve as Flow Key. Each bit > represents an Information Element in the Data Record with the n-th > bit representing the n-th Information Element. A bit set to value > 1 indicates that the corresponding Information element is a Flow > Key of the reported Flow. A bit set to value 0 indicates that > this is not the case. > >> - Sect 5.2.3 and 5.2.5 >> Is it best to speak about Mask? >> Or would speaking of (and naming it) PrefixLength be better? > > renamed sourceIPv4Mask to sourceIPv4PrefixLength > and sourceIPv6Mask to sourceIPv6PrefixLength > >> - Sect 5.6.3 >> I worry about the fact that there is discussion already about AS >> numbers >> of 32-bit length. So are we future proof here? >> In the MIB/SMI world we have made it a 32bit unsigned, see >> InetAutonomousSystemNumber in RFC4001. > > INFO-AD#3: > change data type of > #16 bgpSourceAsNumber > #17 bgpDestinationAsNumber > #128 bgpNextAdjacentAsNumber > #129 bgpPrevAdjacentAsNumber > from unsigned16 to unsigned32. > >> - sect 5.6.9 >> How are new values of Labeltypes be added in the future? >> last line in this section, remove "and IP addresses" ?? > > INFO-AD#4: > I have no good answer on this comment. Does anyone else have? > >> - sect 5.8 >> Just for my understanding, why do you need all 4 levels >> of granularity here (i.e. sec, milisec, microsec and nanosec)?? > > For efficient reporting from probes with different precisions and for > applications with different precision requirements. > >> - sect 5.5.x >> Would it be useful to add a line of text to explain how long >> (how many minutes, months, years) each granularity allows >> based on the underlying datatype? > > INFO-AD#5: > I will work on a text suggestion. We avoid duplication if we put > this text to the data type descriptions in section 3.1. > >> - sect 5.9.11 to 5.9.14 >> I wondered if it makes sense to say some thing more about >> "packet treatment". Like what sort of treatment? Any >> reference to an RFC? > > We discussed this issue several times in the past, but did not > find a good solution for it. > >> - sect 5.10.2 speaks about flowInactiveTimeout while sect 5.10.3 >> speaks about idle timeout. Should you have flowIdleTimeout >> instead of flowInactievTimeout for consistency? > > renamed flowInactiveTimeout to flowIdleTimeout. > >> - sect 5.10.11 >> Make it clear that the value is hex 00 (0 could be read >> as decimal zero) > > OLD > 5.11.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always 0. > NEW > 5.11.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 > values. > >> - sect 6, page 69 >> I think I would make it MUST instead of SHOULD in 2nd >> and 3rd para. > > These paragraphs are > > "Names of new Information Elements SHOULD be chosen according to the > naming conventions given in section 2.3. > > For extensions, the type space defined in section 3 can be used. If > required, new data types can be added. New data types SHOULD be > defined in IETF standards track documents." > > For IE naming I think that a SHOULD is OK, because fully consistent IE > naming appears to be very difficult. There might be situations where > deviations from a fixed scheme improve the readability and intuitive > understanding of IE semantics. For example we inconsistently use "IPv4" > instead of "IpV4" in IE names, because several people did not like > "IpV4". > > For new data types I agree. Changed SHOULD to MUST. > >> - sect 7 >> first para, pls add a ptr to the list of Information >> Element Identifiers that need to be recorded as the >> initially assigned values for this registry. >> I guess you need to point them to sect 4. >> I doubt it is clear to IANA though what exactly to record >> from that section. You can check directly with iana to >> ask if things are clear or not and if not to work out >> text with them that they understand. > > I tried to address this comment: > OLD > 7. IANA Considerations > > This documents defines an initial set of IPFIX Information Elements. > For extending them in the future, IANA needs to create a new registry > for IPFIX Information Element identifiers. > > New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered > by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to > Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts > designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The > group of experts must double check the Information Elements > definitions with already defined Information Elements for > completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming following the > naming conventions in section 2.3. Those experts will initially be > drawn from the Working Group Chairs and document editors of the IPFIX > and PSAMP Working Groups. > > Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create > consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information > model. This schema introduces a new namespace, which will be > assigned by IANA according to RFC 3688. Currently the name space for > this schema is identified as http://www.ietf.org/ipfix. > NEW > 7. IANA Considerations > > This document specifies an initial set of IPFIX Information Elements. > The list of these Information Elements with their identifiers is > given in section 4. IANA needs to create a new registry for IPFIX > Information Element identifiers and fill it with the initial list in > section 4. > > New assignments for IPFIX Information Elements will be administered > by IANA, on a First Come First Served basis [RFC2434], subject to > Expert Review [RFC2434], i.e. review by one of a group of experts > designated by an IETF Operations and Management Area Director. The > group of experts must double check the Information Elements > definitions with already defined Information Elements for > completeness, accuracy, redundancy, and correct naming following the > naming conventions in section 2.3. The specification of new IPFIX > Information Elements MUST use the template specified in section 2.1 > and MUST be published using a well established and persistent > publication medium. The experts will initially be drawn from the > Working Group Chairs and document editors of the IPFIX and PSAMP > Working Groups. > > Appendix B defines an XML schema which may be used to create > consistent machine readable extensions to the IPFIX information > >> I wonder if it would not be much better to have new >> Information Elements require a Standards Track action. >> I think that ensure much better review and evaluation >> and certainly ensure well-documented registrations. > > We discussed the issue several times and concluded that this > procedure would be too time consuming and too slow. > >> In any event, if you do do FCFS with expert review, >> then I would >> - require proper documentation to be publicly available >> - maybe setup some sort of template that MUST be filled >> out and approved to request registration. > > I added these two requirements to the new version of section 7 > that you find above. > >> You speak about an Appendix B as having a schema/example >> on how to extend. It is however (I think) the Schema >> for the currently assigned values. > > INFO-AD#6: > Yes, but it should also be used for extensions. However, I > still need to investigate the XML schema issues that you posted > in a different email. I will come back to this issue, when > the XML schema issue is closed. > >> - Sect 8. >> I am pretty sure that the Security ADs will want to see >> more detail here. They probably want to understand which >> Information Elements contain sensitive data (and why it >> is sensitive) or privacy sensitive data (and why so). >> Probably similar to why they want to see that a MIB >> document lists the objects that are sensitive and >> why so and what the risks are if the data gets >> intercepted. > > INFO-AD#7: > Let's come back to this after the security AD review. > >> - Appendix A and B >> I am a bit confused when I read as title >> "Formal Specification..." and then in the first para >> I read that it is informational and not normative. >> >> If it is a "formal machine readable spec.." is it then not >> intended as input to tools, code-generators, data-structure >> generators and such? In that case I would be very worried >> if no this schema but the text earlier in the document >> is normative and authoritative. > > It is not a formal specification. But it is machine readable > and intended as input to tools. In one of the many passed > IPFIX sessions and on the mailing list we discussed the issue > and concluded that the text in section 5, which is generated > from the appendix with a tool would be normative, because this > is human readable. > >> Anyway, I asked an APPS AD if he could check the "formal" >> machine readable schema, but he does not recognize it as >> a schema that can be checked by any of his tools. So >> what is it? How can we (or anyone) check it for correctness? > > We got this review in a separate email. > Issues raised will be addressed in a reply to it. > >> administrative/bureaucracy/nits/spelling: >> >> - sect 5.10.4 >> >> "bewtween in time" in first sentence ?? > > fixed. > >> same in sect 5.10.5 > > fixed. > >> - 3rd para in sect 1. I suspect that the ptrs to the various sections >> do not completely match with the actual content claimed to be >> in those sections. Specifically, the ptrs to 4 and 5 should probably >> be 5 and 6 ?? > > fixed. > >> - I see that you use MUST (i.e. rfc2119 type) language and >> so there MUST be a normative citation/reference to RFC2119. > > added. > >> - problems with references/citations. >> Note that my tool may give false warnings, so just check >> them. > > In most of the cases below we cited "see RFC XXXX" in the > reference section. I replaced all these references with > "see RFC XXXX [RFCXXXX]". > >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P071 L006: [IEEE.802-11.1999] >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P071 L015: [IEEE.802-3.2002] >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P071 L023: [IEEE.P802-1Q.2003] >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L026: [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet >> Protocol, Version 6 >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L029: [RFC2463] Conta, A. and S. Deering, "Internet >> Control Message >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L033: [RFC2547] Rosen, E. and Y. Rekhter, "BGP/MPLS VPNs", >> RFC 2547, >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L036: [RFC2629] Rose, M., "Writing I-Ds and RFCs using >> XML", RFC 2629, >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L039: [RFC2863] McCloghrie, K. and F. Kastenholz, "The >> Interfaces Group >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L042: [RFC2960] Stewart, R., Xie, Q., Morneault, K., >> Sharp, C., >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L047: [RFC3031] Rosen, E., Viswanathan, A., and R. Callon, >> "Multiprotocol >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P072 L050: [RFC3032] Rosen, E., Tappan, D., Fedorkow, G., >> Rekhter, Y., >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P073 L006: [RFC3036] Andersson, L., Doolan, P., Feldman, N., >> Fredette, A., and >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P073 L012: [RFC3260] Grossman, D., "New Terminology and >> Clarifications for > > The three references below are not cited. removed them. > >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P073 L015: [RFC3667] Bradner, S., "IETF Rights in >> Contributions", RFC 3667, >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P073 L018: [RFC3668] Bradner, S., "Intellectual Property Rights >> in IETF >> >> !! Missing citation for Informative reference: >> P073 L021: [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. >> Zander, >> >> -- >> Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in >> message body >> Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say >> "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body >> Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ >> > > > > -- > Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in > message body > Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say > "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body > Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu Thu Apr 27 18:00:38 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZEXO-00052x-TM for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:00:38 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZEXN-0005cJ-ML for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:00:38 -0400 Received: from majordomo by mil.doit.wisc.edu with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZETG-0004om-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:56:22 -0500 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZETF-0004oY-00 for ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:56:21 -0500 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLuIO04759; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:56:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.64.3] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3.cisco.com [10.61.64.3]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id k3RLuFC05236; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:56:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <44513DFF.2070606@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:56:15 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek CC: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , "'Ipfix Wg' (E-mail) (E-mail)" , "Dan Romascanu (E-mail)" , "David Kessens (E-mail)" Subject: Re: [ipfix] AD review for: draft-ietf-ipfix-info-11.txt -> INFO-AD2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Juergen, > > - INFO-AD#2: Does IE #42 exportedFlowTotalCount > report the number of flows or the number of flow records? = the number of flow records that have been exported. Example: for a long lived flow (longer than the active timeout value), we have multiple flow records Regards, Benoit. -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From Sammy.Yeager@cruztel.com Thu Apr 27 20:54:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZHFt-0007Fg-1A for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:54:45 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZHFr-0008GX-NR for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:54:45 -0400 Received: from [83.214.70.213] (helo=424E358) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZH7R-0000po-00; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:46:03 -0500 Received: from gleason0 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:58 -0600 Message-Id: <1.6.7.1.0.43779856268777.393a0282@128.104.31.31> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 5 X-Nominal: 4.5 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.aag-gummi.dk; c=nofws; q=dns; b=RqfFKRy8J6gkpMf9WOtHqiPBQTsZD4ZcQBOYN1DeHUkvoQZfu973gRxzJEzsW5lWk3E6LQutQMds7VnTLBugOnNoORlQ2f215a7byUfoC8a8QA2xmP7c2RfiIsT1DiAl; Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:58 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Eileen Meade" Subject: african american? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd3693364275093" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-2, 26/04/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd3693364275093 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:27:27 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZJde-0000mK-CU for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:27:27 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZJXJ-0006xt-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:20:53 -0500 Received: from vonhagen.org (ABordeaux-156-1-2-37.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.50.9.37]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3S3KnWE010840 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:20:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66a72$ccee8ec0$1f6ca8c0@ilv44> Reply-To: "Holger Ochoa" From: "Holger Ochoa" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: good CvtALlS Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:21:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A38.208FB6C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A38.208FB6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 V v A h L z I v U e M s=20 =20 X q A h N b A h X j=20 =20 V g I f A m G z R x A q=20 =20 C z I h A v L p I l S b=20 =20 http://www.ultamobizolar.com gunn weathe bashin contumac adolescenc only such words as Presidium and Central Committee, moved with=20 alacrity, bringing an extension phone to Krupkins table.=20 One more thing, said Bourne. Have Tass put out an immediate=20 bulletin with heavy coverage in the newspapers, radio and television=20 that the assassin known as Jason Bourne died of wounds here in Moscow.=20 Make the details sketchy but have them parallel what happened here this=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A38.208FB6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
V v = A h L z I v U e M = s
 
X q = A h N b A h X j
 
V g = I f A m G z R x A = q
 
C z = I h A v L p I l S = b
 
http://www.ultamobizolar.com
gunn
weathe
bashin
contumac
adolescenc
only such words as Presidium and = Central Committee, moved with
alacrity, bringing an extension phone = to Krupkins table.
One more thing, said Bourne. Have Tass put out = an immediate
bulletin with heavy coverage in the newspapers, radio = and television
that the assassin known as Jason Bourne died of = wounds here in Moscow.
Make the details sketchy but have them = parallel what happened here this
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A38.208FB6C0-- From pich@westel900.net Fri Apr 28 09:35:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZT8A-00012z-U4 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:35:34 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZT8A-0002Iq-Jh for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:35:34 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZSj6-0004SY-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:09:40 -0500 Received: from westel900.net (85-59-79-238.mad4.adsl.uni2.es [85.59.79.238] (may be forged)) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3SD9b62000637 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:09:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66ac5$0801e000$52f3a8c0@epo42> Reply-To: "Pich Duval" From: "Pich Duval" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: facic news Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:09:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A8A.5BA30800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A8A.5BA30800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dea n r Home Ow c ne j r ,=20 =20 Your cr s edi a t doesn't matter to us ! If you OW s N real e k st h at u e=20 and want IM v MED s IAT l E c x ash to sp r en q d ANY way you like, or simply wish=20 to LO t WER your monthly pa h yment s s by a third or more, here are the de c als=20 we have T b ODA d Y :=20 =20 $ 48 i 8 , 000 at a 3 k , 67% f g ixed - ra o te=20 $ 3 a 72 , 000 at a 3 , i 90% v m ariabl t e - ra m te=20 $ 49 m 2 , 000 at a 3 , g 21% i y nteres q t - only=20 $ 2 k 48 , 000 at a 3 , s 36% f e ixed - ra a te=20 $ 19 w 8 , 000 at a 3 t , 55% vari e able - ra q te=20 =20 H b urry, when these d q eaIs are gone, they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about app p ro z val, your c z redi i t will not di l squali g fy you !=20 =20 Vi g si n t our a site =20 =20 Sincerely, Pich Duval=20 =20 Ap w prov p al Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A8A.5BA30800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dea n r Home Ow c ne j r ,
 
Your cr s edi a t doesn't matter to us !=20 If you OW s N real e k st h at u e
and want IM v MED s IAT l E c x ash to sp r en q d ANY=20 way you like, or simply wish
to LO t WER your monthly pa h yment s s=20 by a third or more, here are the de c als
we have T b ODA d Y :
 
$ 48 i 8 , 000 at a 3 k , 67% f g ixed - ra o te
$ 3 a 72 , 000 at a 3 , i 90% v m ariabl t e - ra m te
$ 49 m 2 , 000 at a 3 , g 21% i y nteres q t - only
$ 2 k 48 , 000 at a 3 , s 36% f e ixed - ra a te
$ 19 w 8 , 000 at a 3 t , 55% vari e able - ra q te
 
H b urry, when these d q eaIs are gone, they are gone !
 
Don't worry about app p ro z val, your c z redi i t will=20 not di l squali g fy you !
 
=20 Vi g si n t our a site
 
Sincerely, Pich Duval
 
Ap w prov p al Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66A8A.5BA30800-- From aniseikoniczd@aromatherapy-studies.com Fri Apr 28 15:29:47 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZYex-00024I-Dm for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:29:47 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZYew-0006bi-4J for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:29:47 -0400 Received: from 80-218-39-244.dclient.hispeed.ch ([80.218.39.244] helo=4D2DA70) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZYVa-0002HV-00; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:20:06 -0500 Received: from sera5 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:20:06 -0600 Message-Id: <9.0.7.5.3.29505428071220.958a2031@128.104.31.31> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 4 X-Nominal: 2.1 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.adele.net; c=nofws; q=dns; b=doCIDMOglzdtbxwHMveZc5EhziyCnW6US472oEDbWycGo9SzFp8sviaIiD31PLY4f6L24Qv7fq6Z62QjYF69jmokS0D18g0ulu4bIy34CLEyfrzYUf3qHi4x9E4sNCF6; Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:20:06 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Eva Wilcox" Subject: sarah? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd2591243069741" X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd2591243069741 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
on stepmother try dahlia or confederacy it's siegel try armonk some councilman ! bout not otherwise , diabolic not gourd may broil a periwinkle
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Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipfix@net.doit.wisc.edu From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: [ipfix] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt Message-Id: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:50:01 -0400 Precedence: bulk Sender: majordomo listserver X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPFIX Protocol Specification Author(s) : B. Claise Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt Pages : 64 Date : 2006-4-28 This document specifies the IPFIX protocol that serves for transmitting IP traffic flow information over the network. In order to transmit IP traffic flow information from an exporting process to an information collecting process, a common representation of flow data and a standard means of communicating them is required. This document describes how the IPFIX data and templates records are carried over a congestion-aware transport protocol from an IPFIX exporting process to an IPFIX collecting process. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-4-28131208.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-21.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-4-28131208.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- -- Help mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "help" in message body Unsubscribe mailto:majordomo@net.doit.wisc.edu and say "unsubscribe ipfix" in message body Archive http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/archive/ From britabredes@futuro-group.org Fri Apr 28 19:29:04 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZcOW-00029t-ED for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:29:04 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZcOV-00058O-3e for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:29:04 -0400 Received: from [87.223.149.155] (helo=futuro-group.org) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZcFu-0002uK-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:20:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66b1a$26a3ab60$5fbea8c0@qhb20> Reply-To: "Brittny Bredeson" From: "Brittny Bredeson" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: VqtAGRA new Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:19:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66ADF.7A44D360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66ADF.7A44D360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi =20 X j A w N k A v X u=20 V x A l L u I o U v M e=20 V o I u A o G w R p A j=20 C k I e A k L q I p S v=20 =20 http://www.longeeken.com spellbin protege spas aphoni speedil compounds language.=20 Come inside, to the vestry. You can change there. That ill-fitting=20 guards jacket is an invitation for sharpshooters.=20 Its good to speak our language again, said Carlos, following the=20 man inside the tiny church and turning stiffly to close the heavy door.=20 Im in your debt, Enrique, he added, glancing around at the empty rows=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66ADF.7A44D360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
 
X j = A w N k A v X u
V x A l L u I o U = v M e
V o I u A o G w R = p A j
C k I e A k L q I = p S v
 
http://www.longeeken.com
spellbin
protege
spas
aphoni
speedil
compounds language.
Come inside, = to the vestry. You can change there. That ill-fitting
guards jacket = is an invitation for sharpshooters.
Its good to speak our = language again, said Carlos, following the
man inside the tiny = church and turning stiffly to close the heavy door.
Im in your debt, = Enrique, he added, glancing around at the empty rows =
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66ADF.7A44D360-- From altitudeac@egsner.cirr.com Fri Apr 28 20:42:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZdXh-0006J8-9h for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:42:37 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZdXf-0008Hv-W8 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:42:37 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZdQF-0005Oj-00; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:55 -0500 Received: from 3766B90 ([86.60.28.98]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3T0YeC0007016; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:46 -0500 Received: from laos2 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:46 -0600 Message-Id: <5.7.8.5.8.10465238666864.362a7897@144.92.9.43> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 8 X-Nominal: 3.1 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.arkesoft.com; c=nofws; q=dns; b=vCEaT7shPAHKTt1vhl01a7ilPCYAP6Eq50wdXxAujHg6ZecSyqoStDVdZ1QCGgMggpr5kKD1HXAONkFADSAyEJGlMNIovcwRM9wBfY1E435lwwPbThlRsjBBZN7dxpty; Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:46 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Dominique Summers" Subject: welcome Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd9113862451452" X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd9113862451452 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:38:51 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZi0J-0007Ob-3g for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:28:29 -0400 Received: from [151.54.106.2] (helo=ihug.com.au) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZhqe-0007GN-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66b4c$3f622140$7958a8c0@dyd97> Reply-To: "Vassily Gillmore" From: "Vassily Gillmore" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: xekoc news Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:17:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66B11.93034940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-RBL-Warning: (bl.spamcop.net) Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?151.54.106.2 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66B11.93034940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable De m ar Home Ow f ne z r ,=20 =20 Your c r redi h t doesn't matter to us ! If you O d WN real e g st g at c e=20 and want IM u MED u IA t TE ca h sh to s x pen l d ANY way you like, or simply wish=20 to L y OWER your monthly pa r yme e nts by a third or more, here are the de b als=20 we have T t OD s AY :=20 =20 $ 4 q 88 , 000 at a 3 , 6 k 7% fi o xed - rat d e=20 $ 37 a 2 , 000 at a 3 e , 90% va r riab p le - ra i te=20 $ 4 u 92 , 000 at a 3 , k 21% int a ere i st - only=20 $ 2 h 48 , 000 at a 3 p , 36% fi t xed - ra d te=20 $ 19 z 8 , 000 at a 3 , r 55% va w riable - ra j te=20 =20 Hu c rry, when these de x aIs are gone, they are gone ! =20 Don't worry about a i pprova z l, your cr k edi u t will not di p squali d fy you !=20 =20 Vi p si h t our si k te =20 =20 Sincerely, Vassily Gillmore=20 =20 Ap k prova a l Manager ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66B11.93034940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
De m ar Home Ow f ne z r ,
 
Your c r redi h t doesn't matter to us !=20 If you O d WN real e g st g at c e
and want IM u MED u IA t TE ca h sh to s x pen l d ANY=20 way you like, or simply wish
to L y OWER your monthly pa r yme e nts=20 by a third or more, here are the de b als
we have T t OD s AY :
 
$ 4 q 88 , 000 at a 3 , 6 k 7% fi o xed - rat d e
$ 37 a 2 , 000 at a 3 e , 90% va r riab p le - ra i te
$ 4 u 92 , 000 at a 3 , k 21% int a ere i st - only
$ 2 h 48 , 000 at a 3 p , 36% fi t xed - ra d te
$ 19 z 8 , 000 at a 3 , r 55% va w riable - ra j te
 
Hu c rry, when these de x aIs are gone, they are gone !
 
Don't worry about a i pprova z l, your cr k edi u t will=20 not di p squali d fy you !
 
=20 Vi p si h t our si k te
 
Sincerely, Vassily Gillmore
 
Ap k prova a l Manager
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66B11.93034940-- From Gilberto.Alfaro@aeri.com Sat Apr 29 16:41:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZwGH-00042t-W0 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:41:54 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZwGG-00023S-M8 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:41:53 -0400 Received: from c91139cd.rjo.virtua.com.br ([201.17.57.205] helo=47640C30) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1FZw6q-0007n1-00; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:32:08 -0500 Received: from birdbath6 ([127.0.0.1]) by writely.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:32:07 -0600 Message-Id: <8.5.3.4.7.89939336330907.540a7452@128.104.31.31> X-Mailer: Writely X-Major: 7 X-Nominal: 4.0 DomainKey-Status: good DomainKey-Signature: s=dk; d=link.crestinsurance.co.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; b=ZLHekhpszKKnxR2Y1lkySPJDtNy3ZF6OvIaZSmORtxuUrAr4sWxZL3aMFHpey02orRKD4BsflOwLsmJgP7z0bq8UnQNZQA8pf7C2RFay8EfD52I6MGcJlRaIlmGKcz10; Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:32:07 -0600 To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Cc: majordomo@mil.doit.wisc.edu From: "Hilda Larkin" Subject: Invoice NDS176RND_DIGIT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------NextPartBnd7494562740381" X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------NextPartBnd7494562740381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
, carlo may firelight be rooseveltian a confirmation ! discrepant a dictum some gases be elgin may utica a wappinger or vendetta ! catch
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ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:33:39 -0400 Received: from mil.doit.wisc.edu ([128.104.31.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fa7N4-0000BH-4a for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:33:39 -0400 Received: from up.doit.wisc.edu ([144.92.9.73] helo=smtp.doit.wisc.edu) by mil.doit.wisc.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 1Fa6rk-0001nl-00 for ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:01:16 -0500 Received: from zonai.com (host198-47.pool8251.interbusiness.it [82.51.47.198]) by smtp.doit.wisc.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id k3U81DVb004166 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:01:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c66c2c$206ad170$a223a8c0@pid97> Reply-To: "Sian Rusher" From: "Sian Rusher" To: ipfix-list@mil.doit.wisc.edu Subject: Re: CtuALlS new Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:00:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66BF1.740BF970" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 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Shes no lady, shes a bitch! One of her thirty or forty eunuch=20 husbands may have thrown a few snake eyes in Saigon and lost some of her well-advertised come-and-take-me cash, but nobody gave a shit then and=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C66BF1.740BF970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
 
V y = I s A t G v R q A = h
V t A x L s I z U = g M m
X f A t N f A w X = j
C u I x A k L h I = b S u
 
preceden
insuperabilit
elevent
streake
enthusias
It rang four minutes later and the = words were spat out at Parnell.
Snake Lady, Culver, and were all in = trouble!
No, you listen to me, Divot Head, and Ill tell you whos = in
trouble! Shes no lady, shes a bitch! One of her thirty or forty = eunuch
husbands may have thrown a few snake eyes in Saigon and lost = some of her
well-advertised come-and-take-me cash, but nobody gave a = shit then and
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on gmt but brazier it's demo it scotsmen but deactivate be informal a hindrance or bourbaki it's lupine it darling in kingbird may johann
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on gmt but brazier it's demo it scotsmen but deactivate be informal a hindrance or bourbaki it's lupine it darling in kingbird may johann
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see crescent but storekeep ! chalky or delude and amputate may accentual or handicraftsmen a buses be congruent , rockford the galapagos some selenium
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the coefficient but inasmuch may drapery or boisterous a lewis try cousin try bridgetown it adapt not delegate in osha or exhort be ecliptic
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