From ippm-admin@ietf.org Mon Mar 1 04:56:44 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06130 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axk9Z-0007o0-1l; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:56:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axk9B-0007l7-M6 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:55:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06054 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk98-0006Wq-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:55:34 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk8E-0006RR-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:54:39 -0500 Received: from apollo.cran.uhp-nancy.fr ([193.50.39.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk7a-0006MG-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:53:58 -0500 Received: from laplace.cran.u-nancy.fr (laplace.cran.uhp-nancy.fr [193.50.39.8]) by apollo.cran.uhp-nancy.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/KitJF.server) with ESMTP id KAA22956 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:53:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from cran.uhp-nancy.fr ([193.50.39.64]) by laplace.cran.u-nancy.fr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HTW6AX00.SNR; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:56:57 +0100 Message-ID: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:53:59 +0100 From: Fabien Michaut User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: acmorton@att.com CC: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-05.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Al, I have two comments on the draft related to reordering: 1. On page 13, "Definition 2 : The degree of n-reordering of the sample is m/l" . It seams that m is not previously defined. 2. On page 14, What do you mean by adjacent? "1. n is a count of *adjacent* early packets." Is it always the case? Consider the following example : In the arrival sequence s={1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 4, 5, 6, 8}, packet 4 is n-reorderd with n=2, but packets 7 and 9 are not adjacent. Best regards, Fabien _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Mar 1 04:58:21 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06196 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxkBM-00080i-Is for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:57:52 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i219vlXP030785 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:57:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxkBE-00080S-7Y for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:57:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06192 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:57:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxkBB-0006ki-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:57:41 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxkAI-0006fW-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:56:47 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk9m-0006ZF-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:56:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axk9Z-0007o0-1l; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:56:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axk9B-0007l7-M6 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:55:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA06054 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk98-0006Wq-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:55:34 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk8E-0006RR-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:54:39 -0500 Received: from apollo.cran.uhp-nancy.fr ([193.50.39.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axk7a-0006MG-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 04:53:58 -0500 Received: from laplace.cran.u-nancy.fr (laplace.cran.uhp-nancy.fr [193.50.39.8]) by apollo.cran.uhp-nancy.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/KitJF.server) with ESMTP id KAA22956 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:53:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from cran.uhp-nancy.fr ([193.50.39.64]) by laplace.cran.u-nancy.fr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HTW6AX00.SNR; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:56:57 +0100 Message-ID: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:53:59 +0100 From: Fabien Michaut User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031208 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: acmorton@att.com CC: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-05.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Al, I have two comments on the draft related to reordering: 1. On page 13, "Definition 2 : The degree of n-reordering of the sample is m/l" . It seams that m is not previously defined. 2. On page 14, What do you mean by adjacent? "1. n is a count of *adjacent* early packets." Is it always the case? Consider the following example : In the arrival sequence s={1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 4, 5, 6, 8}, packet 4 is n-reorderd with n=2, but packets 7 and 9 are not adjacent. Best regards, Fabien _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Mon Mar 1 05:56:36 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09426 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:56:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl5e-0005Pk-Mg; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:56:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl4i-0005Jk-Cv for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09305 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl4e-00058v-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:55:00 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl3W-0004uw-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:53:51 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl1s-0004YZ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:52:08 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 6BC1D51ED3; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3009751ED0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i21ApdXf017140 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i21ApdRm004474 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:38 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.082036 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 44551475a2fc95cf30523cf5d247d34b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear all, The IPPM will meet tomorrow afternoon @ 15:45, agenda: 1. Agenda bashing 2. Discussion of milestones and plans for the group 3. draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-mib-05.txt Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Mar 1 05:58:24 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09599 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl7S-0005ko-NY for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:57:57 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i21Avs5f022117 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:57:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl7S-0005ke-Ju for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:57:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09545 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl7P-0005Xc-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:57:51 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl6T-0005Px-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:56:54 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl5h-0005Ic-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:56:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl5e-0005Pk-Mg; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:56:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Axl4i-0005Jk-Cv for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09305 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl4e-00058v-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:55:00 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl3W-0004uw-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:53:51 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Axl1s-0004YZ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:52:08 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 6BC1D51ED3; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3009751ED0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i21ApdXf017140 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i21ApdRm004474 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:39 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:51:38 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.082036 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 44551475a2fc95cf30523cf5d247d34b Subject: [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Dear all, The IPPM will meet tomorrow afternoon @ 15:45, agenda: 1. Agenda bashing 2. Discussion of milestones and plans for the group 3. draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-mib-05.txt Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Mon Mar 1 06:21:36 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10932 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlTq-00009A-2h; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:21:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlTS-00007n-TO for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:20:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10908 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlTO-00007x-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:20:35 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlSe-00002q-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:19:48 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlRx-0007ky-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:19:05 -0500 Received: from lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.21.52]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:19:02 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE : [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:19:01 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Thread-Index: AcP/e9H/jwN5ynyERSiLPgIEm0wD4gARfNQQ From: "STEPHAN Emile FTRD/DAC/LAN" To: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" , "Matt Zekauskas" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2004 11:19:02.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[001B3B60:01C3FF7F] X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Henk and Matt, I proposed to have a discussion with others WG regarding the need of = IPPM metrics definitions for non end-to-end measures.=20 Is this topic cancelled ? Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) [mailto:henk@ripe.net]=20 > Envoy=E9 : lundi 1 mars 2004 11:52 > =C0 : ippm@ietf.org > Objet : [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > The IPPM will meet tomorrow afternoon @ 15:45, agenda: >=20 > 1. Agenda bashing >=20 > 2. Discussion of milestones and plans for the group >=20 > 3. draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-mib-05.txt >=20 >=20 > Henk >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > Henk Uijterwaal Email:=20 > henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre =20 > http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk > P.O.Box 10096 =20 > Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 > 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 > The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- >=20 > Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people=20 > without the wit > and wisdom to do their job properly. =20 > (David Brent). >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Mar 1 06:23:17 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA11029 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:23:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlVa-0000J1-L4 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:22:50 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i21BMoiP001174 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:22:50 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlVa-0000Ir-GN for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:22:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10998 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:22:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlVW-0000MP-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:22:46 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlUa-0000FH-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:21:48 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlTu-00009U-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:21:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlTq-00009A-2h; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:21:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxlTS-00007n-TO for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:20:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10908 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlTO-00007x-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:20:35 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlSe-00002q-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:19:48 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxlRx-0007ky-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:19:05 -0500 Received: from lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.21.52]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:19:02 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE : [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:19:01 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow Thread-Index: AcP/e9H/jwN5ynyERSiLPgIEm0wD4gARfNQQ From: "STEPHAN Emile FTRD/DAC/LAN" To: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" , "Matt Zekauskas" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2004 11:19:02.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[001B3B60:01C3FF7F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Henk and Matt, I proposed to have a discussion with others WG regarding the need of = IPPM metrics definitions for non end-to-end measures.=20 Is this topic cancelled ? Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) [mailto:henk@ripe.net]=20 > Envoy=E9 : lundi 1 mars 2004 11:52 > =C0 : ippm@ietf.org > Objet : [ippm] Agenda for tomorrow >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > The IPPM will meet tomorrow afternoon @ 15:45, agenda: >=20 > 1. Agenda bashing >=20 > 2. Discussion of milestones and plans for the group >=20 > 3. draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-mib-05.txt >=20 >=20 > Henk >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > Henk Uijterwaal Email:=20 > henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre =20 > http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk > P.O.Box 10096 =20 > Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 > 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 > The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- >=20 > Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people=20 > without the wit > and wisdom to do their job properly. =20 > (David Brent). >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From mailman-admin@ietf.org Mon Mar 1 09:22:41 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA22446 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxoJ9-0005Vo-Ul for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:22:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: <20040301142211.27462.18951.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ippm-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ippm@ietf.org wurudu https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ippm/ippm-archive%40lists.ietf.org From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Mar 1 10:23:04 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02900 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxpFc-0008Fc-RE for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:22:36 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i21FMapV031710 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxpFc-0008FE-5r for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:22:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02617 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxpFY-0006J9-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:22:32 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Axogq-00066i-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:46:42 -0500 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AxoWf-0003Nj-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:36:09 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AxoJ3-0002vT-PD for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:22:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AxoJ1-0005Lf-Tr for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:22:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 09:22:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20040301142203.27462.19812.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: ippm-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. 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Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are addressed to * the IETF plenary session, * any IETF working group or portion thereof, * the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG, * the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB, * any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices, * the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions. *************************************************************************** If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org. Thanks! Passwords for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ippm@ietf.org ikrodi https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ippm/ippm-web-archive%40ietf.org From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:15:43 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16307 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:15:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiN7-0004BJ-5G; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiML-00042L-Om for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16148 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMJ-0007OK-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:11 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiLd-0007DY-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:12:30 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiKy-0006wJ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:11:48 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8EB1C6DDD8; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3442B51D82 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242BIht008307 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242BIJi009115 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.499471 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 19ebd4bb88f970f53f005e2e13abdba6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , IPPM group, During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them due to a lack of interest. The full list of milestones is at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of open items with their new, proposed, due date: Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link bandwidth capacity. Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be contacted by the chairs. Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol that satisfies the requirements document. Comment: see next mail. Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP performance metrics. Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has disappeared, it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, for consideration as an Informational RFC. Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft expired. Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 (connectivity, loss, & delay). Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. See next mail for details. Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG for Proposed Standard Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for consideration as an Informational RFC. Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the IESG for consideration as a PS If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan to work on them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:16:08 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16333 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:16:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiO6-0004Fq-4N; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiNC-0004Bi-Is for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16204 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiNA-0007YJ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:04 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMK-0007Ob-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiLg-00079k-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:12:32 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 53F3551D82; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096564EE9D for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242C3ht008458 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242C2uU009120 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:02 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.060645 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 66f99f65b5b9059c10e74ee826b0010b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: [ippm] Call for review of draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-07.txt Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , IPPM group, Now that the requirements document has been finished, we feel that work on the specifications for OWAMP should continue. A fairly mature draft exists: draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-07.txt. However, this draft has been read by only a few people and needs a critical review of the security section. We would like to encourage you to read and comment on the draft, in particular if you have or plan to implement OWAMP as part of a measurement system. The chairs would like to see 1 final iteration of the draft, prior to a WG last call arond the San Diego meeting. Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:16:35 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16429 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiP3-0004aD-ND; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiOE-0004L7-Ig for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16243 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:15:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiOB-0007jd-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:08 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiNC-0007Yn-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:06 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMV-0007I7-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:23 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 540696DDE8; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F326E6DDDF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242Crht008591 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242CrI8009128 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.392855 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 83a7fdf491e99c96251b46f525fd7519 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: [ippm] Call for implementation reports of RFC2678-2681 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , IPPM group, Even though the process to move RFC2678 through 2781 from proposed standard to standard is likely to be changed in the coming year, the chairs would like to start collecting implementation reports for these RFCs. If you have implemented any of RFC2678 Connectivity RFC2679 One way delay RFC2680 Packet Loss RFC2681 Round trip Delay Please provide us with an implementation report. This report should contain (at least): * Name of implementation * Organization that did the implementation * Contact details * Origin of the code * Platform (what it is running on) * Metrics implemented And optionally: * Features implemented * Metrics and features not implemented, and why you did not implement them. * Tests done on the implementation such as: - Comparison of metrics with 2+ implementations - Verification of results with passive methods - Error estimation, clock source Please send reports to the chairs privately, Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:17:45 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16608 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiQH-0004tV-GQ for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i242HHWV018809 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiQH-0004tI-CH for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16510 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiQE-0000Qs-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:14 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiPI-0000Bx-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:16 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiOH-0007kn-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiN7-0004BJ-5G; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiML-00042L-Om for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16148 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMJ-0007OK-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:11 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiLd-0007DY-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:12:30 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiKy-0006wJ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:11:48 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 8EB1C6DDD8; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3442B51D82 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242BIht008307 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242BIJi009115 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:11:18 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.499471 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 19ebd4bb88f970f53f005e2e13abdba6 Subject: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 IPPM group, During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them due to a lack of interest. The full list of milestones is at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of open items with their new, proposed, due date: Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link bandwidth capacity. Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be contacted by the chairs. Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol that satisfies the requirements document. Comment: see next mail. Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP performance metrics. Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has disappeared, it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, for consideration as an Informational RFC. Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft expired. Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 (connectivity, loss, & delay). Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. See next mail for details. Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG for Proposed Standard Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for consideration as an Informational RFC. Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the IESG for consideration as a PS If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan to work on them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:17:59 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16644 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiQV-0004wK-Se for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:31 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i242HVFg018982 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiQV-0004w5-P5 for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16543 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiQT-0000T7-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:29 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiPc-0000Ey-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:37 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiOg-000005-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:38 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiO6-0004Fq-4N; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiNC-0004Bi-Is for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16204 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiNA-0007YJ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:04 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMK-0007Ob-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiLg-00079k-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:12:32 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 53F3551D82; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096564EE9D for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242C3ht008458 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242C2uU009120 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:02 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.060645 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 66f99f65b5b9059c10e74ee826b0010b Subject: [ippm] Call for review of draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-07.txt Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 IPPM group, Now that the requirements document has been finished, we feel that work on the specifications for OWAMP should continue. A fairly mature draft exists: draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-07.txt. However, this draft has been read by only a few people and needs a critical review of the security section. We would like to encourage you to read and comment on the draft, in particular if you have or plan to implement OWAMP as part of a measurement system. The chairs would like to see 1 final iteration of the draft, prior to a WG last call arond the San Diego meeting. Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:18:32 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16716 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiR2-000500-Q0 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i242I4Ka019210 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiR2-0004zl-M6 for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16667 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiR0-0000cr-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:02 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiQ5-0000Pf-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:17:06 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiP7-0000AB-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiP3-0004aD-ND; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:16:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiOE-0004L7-Ig for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16243 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:15:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiOB-0007jd-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:15:08 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiNC-0007Yn-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:14:06 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiMV-0007I7-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:13:23 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id 540696DDE8; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F326E6DDDF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i242Crht008591 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i242CrI8009128 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:12:53 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.392855 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 83a7fdf491e99c96251b46f525fd7519 Subject: [ippm] Call for implementation reports of RFC2678-2681 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 IPPM group, Even though the process to move RFC2678 through 2781 from proposed standard to standard is likely to be changed in the coming year, the chairs would like to start collecting implementation reports for these RFCs. If you have implemented any of RFC2678 Connectivity RFC2679 One way delay RFC2680 Packet Loss RFC2681 Round trip Delay Please provide us with an implementation report. This report should contain (at least): * Name of implementation * Organization that did the implementation * Contact details * Origin of the code * Platform (what it is running on) * Metrics implemented And optionally: * Features implemented * Metrics and features not implemented, and why you did not implement them. * Tests done on the implementation such as: - Comparison of metrics with 2+ implementations - Verification of results with passive methods - Error estimation, clock source Please send reports to the chairs privately, Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:21:53 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16888 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:21:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiTv-0005Am-78; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:21:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiSz-00053q-U1 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:20:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16812 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:20:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiSx-0000yp-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:20:03 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiS7-0000pV-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiRb-0000fQ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350AC2A83; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24665-03; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from BMW (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26EB2A7C; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:36 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: presentations@ietf.org Cc: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <732340309.1078348716@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [ippm] Presentations from the IETF 59 IPPM meeting in Seoul Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The presentations given at the IETF 59 IPPM meeting are available from http://people.internet2.edu/~matt/IPPM/Meetings/ietf59/ We're working on the minutes... --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 3 21:24:16 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17070 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiWQ-0005nf-Um for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:23:48 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i242NcYh022289 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:23:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiWQ-0005nQ-MS for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:23:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17011 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:23:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiWO-0001g9-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:23:36 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiV9-0001Q4-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:22:20 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiUF-0001DS-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:21:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiTv-0005Am-78; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:21:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AyiSz-00053q-U1 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:20:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16812 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:20:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiSx-0000yp-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:20:03 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiS7-0000pV-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AyiRb-0000fQ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350AC2A83; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24665-03; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from BMW (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26EB2A7C; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:18:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:18:36 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: presentations@ietf.org Cc: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <732340309.1078348716@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [ippm] Presentations from the IETF 59 IPPM meeting in Seoul Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The presentations given at the IETF 59 IPPM meeting are available from http://people.internet2.edu/~matt/IPPM/Meetings/ietf59/ We're working on the minutes... --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Thu Mar 4 07:31:40 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15692 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:31:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ays0F-0006xi-E0; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:31:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayrzm-0006vX-SI for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:30:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15616 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrzm-0000D8-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:30:34 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrz8-0007n2-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:29:55 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrxr-0007Oy-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:28:35 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2004 04:32:13 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i24CS2h0007955; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (rtp-vpn1-100.cisco.com [10.82.224.100]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id HAA10995; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Henk Uijterwaal \(RIPE NCC\)" , Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henk, I've been monitoring this wg list some quite some time now. Even periodically submitted a comment or two over the years. One thing I noticed on you proposed agenda that caught my eye. That is the removal of the "Comparision of ITU-T and IETF IP Metrics". Your rational was that the resources were no longer available and that it was argued that is was no longer necessary. Before completely removing this work item, I would like to understand the comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further discussion on this subject. thanks in advance ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm-admin@ietf.org [mailto:ippm-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Henk > Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:11 PM > To: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > IPPM group, > > During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for > the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them > due to a lack of interest. The full list of milestones is at > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of > open items with their new, proposed, due date: > > Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link > bandwidth capacity. > Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be > contacted by the chairs. > > Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay > and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). > Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. > > Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol > that satisfies > the requirements document. > Comment: see next mail. > > Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP > performance metrics. > Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has > disappeared, > it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. > > Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, > for consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk > transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. > Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft > expired. > > Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, > or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 > (connectivity, loss, & > delay). > > Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. > See next mail for details. > > Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG > for Proposed > Standard > Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. > > Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS > > Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for > consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. > Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. > > Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the > IESG for consideration as a PS > > If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan > to work on > them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that > a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. > > Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), > > > Matt & Henk > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Henk Uijterwaal Email: > henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Mar 4 07:33:05 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15751 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ays1l-000771-1y for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:32:37 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i24CWbaU027338 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:32:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ays1k-00076r-P1 for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:32:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15747 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:32:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ays1k-0000c2-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:32:36 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ays0r-0000Qw-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:31:42 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ays0N-0000FT-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:31:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ays0F-0006xi-E0; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:31:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayrzm-0006vX-SI for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:30:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15616 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrzm-0000D8-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:30:34 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrz8-0007n2-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:29:55 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayrxr-0007Oy-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:28:35 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2004 04:32:13 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i24CS2h0007955; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (rtp-vpn1-100.cisco.com [10.82.224.100]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id HAA10995; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Henk Uijterwaal \(RIPE NCC\)" , Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:28:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henk, I've been monitoring this wg list some quite some time now. Even periodically submitted a comment or two over the years. One thing I noticed on you proposed agenda that caught my eye. That is the removal of the "Comparision of ITU-T and IETF IP Metrics". Your rational was that the resources were no longer available and that it was argued that is was no longer necessary. Before completely removing this work item, I would like to understand the comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further discussion on this subject. thanks in advance ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm-admin@ietf.org [mailto:ippm-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Henk > Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:11 PM > To: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > IPPM group, > > During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for > the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them > due to a lack of interest. The full list of milestones is at > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of > open items with their new, proposed, due date: > > Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link > bandwidth capacity. > Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be > contacted by the chairs. > > Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay > and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). > Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. > > Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol > that satisfies > the requirements document. > Comment: see next mail. > > Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP > performance metrics. > Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has > disappeared, > it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. > > Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, > for consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk > transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. > Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft > expired. > > Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, > or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 > (connectivity, loss, & > delay). > > Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. > See next mail for details. > > Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG > for Proposed > Standard > Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. > > Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS > > Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for > consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. > Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. > > Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the > IESG for consideration as a PS > > If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan > to work on > them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that > a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. > > Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), > > > Matt & Henk > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Henk Uijterwaal Email: > henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Thu Mar 4 08:37:38 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18780 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:37:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt25-0005BE-4d; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt1i-0005Ae-B2 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:36:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18717 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt1h-0005P4-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:36:37 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt0k-0005Cy-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:35:38 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayszt-000526-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:34:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FAA2E98; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20472-10; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from BMW (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F792E72; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:34:40 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: Robert Holley Cc: ippm@ietf.org, Al Morton Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Message-ID: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:28 AM -0500 Robert Holley wrote: > Before completely removing this work item, I would like to understand the > comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the > meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further > discussion on this subject. I don't think it's ever been discussed in detail on the list, which is a fault of Chairs past (partially me), and the reason why it's in Henk's list. However, it has been in the meeting minutes posted to the list for the last few physical meetings. [Killing the milestone is not a foregone conclusion -- it could still happen if someone steps up to do the work.] In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm (although there is not much detail there). Al, maybe you could summarize your position? We have had a few people indicate interest in the past, but have never had an internet draft submitted. --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Mar 4 08:39:25 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18964 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:39:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt3x-0005eb-CJ for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:38:57 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i24DcvCw021729 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:38:57 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt3x-0005eO-2y for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:38:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18953 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt3v-0005ub-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:38:55 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt3C-0005hO-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:38:11 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt2D-0005Sl-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:37:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt25-0005BE-4d; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ayt1i-0005Ae-B2 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:36:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18717 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt1h-0005P4-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:36:37 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayt0k-0005Cy-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:35:38 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ayszt-000526-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:34:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FAA2E98; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20472-10; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from BMW (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F792E72; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:34:40 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: Robert Holley Cc: ippm@ietf.org, Al Morton Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Message-ID: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:28 AM -0500 Robert Holley wrote: > Before completely removing this work item, I would like to understand the > comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the > meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further > discussion on this subject. I don't think it's ever been discussed in detail on the list, which is a fault of Chairs past (partially me), and the reason why it's in Henk's list. However, it has been in the meeting minutes posted to the list for the last few physical meetings. [Killing the milestone is not a foregone conclusion -- it could still happen if someone steps up to do the work.] In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm (although there is not much detail there). Al, maybe you could summarize your position? We have had a few people indicate interest in the past, but have never had an internet draft submitted. --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Fri Mar 5 11:46:43 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15689 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:46:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzISb-00022w-0C; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzISS-00022S-Au for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:45:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15650 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzISD-00004B-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:45:41 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIRG-0007gv-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:44:43 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIQW-0007Ll-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:43:56 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2004 08:47:46 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i25GhNBd007481 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id LAA00842 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, thanks for the information. I'll follow up with Al Morton to understand the reasoning. regards ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew J Zekauskas [mailto:matt@internet2.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:35 AM > To: Robert Holley > Cc: ippm@ietf.org; Al Morton > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > --On Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:28 AM -0500 Robert Holley > wrote: > > > Before completely removing this work item, I would like to > understand the > > comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the > > meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further > > discussion on this subject. > > I don't think it's ever been discussed in detail on the list, > which is a fault of Chairs past (partially me), and the reason > why it's in Henk's list. However, it has been in the meeting > minutes posted to the list for the last few physical meetings. > [Killing the milestone is not a foregone conclusion -- it could > still happen if someone steps up to do the work.] > > In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > (although there is not much detail there). > Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > We have had a few people indicate interest in the past, > but have never had an internet draft submitted. > > --Matt > > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Mar 5 11:49:24 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15876 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:49:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzIVO-0002Ni-IT for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:48:58 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i25GmwYi009148 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:48:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzIVO-0002NT-Cp for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:48:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15819 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:48:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIVL-0000qn-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:48:55 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIU1-0000Oi-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:47:33 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzISk-00006P-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:46:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzISb-00022w-0C; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzISS-00022S-Au for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:45:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15650 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzISD-00004B-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:45:41 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIRG-0007gv-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:44:43 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzIQW-0007Ll-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:43:56 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Mar 2004 08:47:46 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i25GhNBd007481 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id LAA00842 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:43:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, thanks for the information. I'll follow up with Al Morton to understand the reasoning. regards ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew J Zekauskas [mailto:matt@internet2.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:35 AM > To: Robert Holley > Cc: ippm@ietf.org; Al Morton > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > --On Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:28 AM -0500 Robert Holley > wrote: > > > Before completely removing this work item, I would like to > understand the > > comments that it is no longer neccessary. I was not able to attend the > > meeting in person, so perhaps you could provide a pointer for further > > discussion on this subject. > > I don't think it's ever been discussed in detail on the list, > which is a fault of Chairs past (partially me), and the reason > why it's in Henk's list. However, it has been in the meeting > minutes posted to the list for the last few physical meetings. > [Killing the milestone is not a foregone conclusion -- it could > still happen if someone steps up to do the work.] > > In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > (although there is not much detail there). > Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > We have had a few people indicate interest in the past, > but have never had an internet draft submitted. > > --Matt > > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Fri Mar 5 14:01:40 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22799 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:01:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKZB-00022L-S2; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:01:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKYx-00020g-6m for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:00:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22777 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKYs-0004c6-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:00:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKXx-0004RX-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:59:46 -0500 Received: from ckmso1.att.com ([12.20.58.69] helo=ckmso1.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKX3-000497-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:58:49 -0500 Received: from attrh2i.attrh.att.com ([135.37.94.56]) by ckmso1.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.0) with ESMTP id i25ItInx027703 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:58:19 -0500 Received: from custsla.mt.att.com (135.21.14.109) by attrh2i.attrh.att.com (6.5.032) id 403FFD52001E8116; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:54:59 -0500 Received: from acmortonw.att.com (acmortonw.mt.att.com [135.16.251.219]) by custsla.mt.att.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i25JBwL11103; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:11:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm@custsla.mt.att.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:58:15 -0500 To: Matthew J Zekauskas , Robert Holley From: Al Morton Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Cc: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> References: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > >(although there is not much detail there). >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within the options of IPPM's IPDV. So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). hope this helps, Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Mar 5 14:03:33 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22948 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKbC-0002Bq-5X for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:03:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i25J36XH008418 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKbC-0002Bh-0I for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:03:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22887 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKb7-000540-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:03:01 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKaE-0004r7-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:02:07 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKZK-0004eU-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:01:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKZB-00022L-S2; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:01:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzKYx-00020g-6m for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:00:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22777 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKYs-0004c6-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:00:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKXx-0004RX-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:59:46 -0500 Received: from ckmso1.att.com ([12.20.58.69] helo=ckmso1.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AzKX3-000497-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:58:49 -0500 Received: from attrh2i.attrh.att.com ([135.37.94.56]) by ckmso1.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.0) with ESMTP id i25ItInx027703 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:58:19 -0500 Received: from custsla.mt.att.com (135.21.14.109) by attrh2i.attrh.att.com (6.5.032) id 403FFD52001E8116; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:54:59 -0500 Received: from acmortonw.att.com (acmortonw.mt.att.com [135.16.251.219]) by custsla.mt.att.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i25JBwL11103; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:11:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm@custsla.mt.att.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:58:15 -0500 To: Matthew J Zekauskas , Robert Holley From: Al Morton Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Cc: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> References: <772910636.1078389280@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > >(although there is not much detail there). >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within the options of IPPM's IPDV. So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). hope this helps, Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Mon Mar 8 10:04:08 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04724 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MHb-0008PT-Lr; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:03:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MH4-0008BN-Et for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04632 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MH2-0007iF-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:32 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MG2-0007Wz-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:01:31 -0500 Received: from almso2.att.com ([192.128.166.71] helo=almso2.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MF3-0007GU-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:00:29 -0500 Received: from attrh5i.attrh.att.com ([135.38.62.12]) by almso2.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.0) with ESMTP id i28E3auh014073 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:59:55 -0500 Received: from custsla.mt.att.com (135.21.14.109) by attrh5i.attrh.att.com (6.5.032) id 403FFE24003CE651; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:59:23 -0500 Received: from acmortonw.att.com (acmortonw.mt.att.com [135.16.251.219]) by custsla.mt.att.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i28FDbL21633; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:13:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040308095016.0273a840@custsla.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm@custsla.mt.att.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:59:52 -0500 To: Fabien Michaut From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-05.txt Cc: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> References: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Fabien, thanks for your review and comments, see below. Al At 04:53 AM 03/01/2004, Fabien Michaut wrote: >1. On page 13, "Definition 2 : The degree of n-reordering of the sample is >m/l" . It seams that m is not previously defined. You're right. We'll add "where m is the number of n-reordered packets in the sample." >2. On page 14, What do you mean by adjacent? "1. n is a count of >*adjacent* early packets." Is it always the case? Consider the following >example : In the arrival sequence s={1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 4, 5, 6, 8}, packet 4 >is n-reorderd with n=2, but packets 7 and 9 are not adjacent. Here we were referring to adjacent/consecutive positions at the receiver, so we'll clarify that point. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Mar 8 10:06:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04846 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:06:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MK4-0001Cx-TV for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:05:44 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i28F5eWq004641 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MK4-0001Ck-Oh for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:05:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04822 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MK1-0000U7-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:05:38 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MJ7-0000J7-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:04:42 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MI8-00007G-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:03:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MHb-0008PT-Lr; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:03:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B0MH4-0008BN-Et for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04632 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MH2-0007iF-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:32 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MG2-0007Wz-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:01:31 -0500 Received: from almso2.att.com ([192.128.166.71] helo=almso2.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B0MF3-0007GU-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:00:29 -0500 Received: from attrh5i.attrh.att.com ([135.38.62.12]) by almso2.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.0) with ESMTP id i28E3auh014073 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:59:55 -0500 Received: from custsla.mt.att.com (135.21.14.109) by attrh5i.attrh.att.com (6.5.032) id 403FFE24003CE651; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:59:23 -0500 Received: from acmortonw.att.com (acmortonw.mt.att.com [135.16.251.219]) by custsla.mt.att.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id i28FDbL21633; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:13:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040308095016.0273a840@custsla.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm@custsla.mt.att.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:59:52 -0500 To: Fabien Michaut From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-05.txt Cc: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> References: <40430837.6000308@cran.uhp-nancy.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Fabien, thanks for your review and comments, see below. Al At 04:53 AM 03/01/2004, Fabien Michaut wrote: >1. On page 13, "Definition 2 : The degree of n-reordering of the sample is >m/l" . It seams that m is not previously defined. You're right. We'll add "where m is the number of n-reordered packets in the sample." >2. On page 14, What do you mean by adjacent? "1. n is a count of >*adjacent* early packets." Is it always the case? Consider the following >example : In the arrival sequence s={1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 4, 5, 6, 8}, packet 4 >is n-reorderd with n=2, but packets 7 and 9 are not adjacent. Here we were referring to adjacent/consecutive positions at the receiver, so we'll clarify that point. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 10 08:53:54 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08503 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B148y-0007Eb-O5; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:53:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B148g-00079r-58 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08431 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B148e-0001Lk-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:48 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B147G-0000tk-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:23 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B145k-0000Nv-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:48 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2004 05:47:57 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2ADnFUk015225; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id IAA19746; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" Cc: Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than write about it). I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get things done. One caveat though is for external groups. For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to outage/reliability reporting. Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a comparison. Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they should develop the paper. Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it seems like a comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. regards Bob ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > hope this helps, > Al > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 10 09:01:05 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09196 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14GC-0007xt-GC for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:37 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2AE0aLe030616 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14GC-0007xj-B4 for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09168 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14GB-00038E-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:00:35 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14FL-0002zf-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:59:44 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14Ed-0002qO-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:58:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B148y-0007Eb-O5; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:53:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B148g-00079r-58 for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08431 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B148e-0001Lk-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:52:48 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B147G-0000tk-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:23 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B145k-0000Nv-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:48 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2004 05:47:57 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2ADnFUk015225; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id IAA19746; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" Cc: Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than write about it). I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get things done. One caveat though is for external groups. For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to outage/reliability reporting. Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a comparison. Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they should develop the paper. Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it seems like a comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. regards Bob ============================================ Robert Holley Network Consulting Engineer Global Solutions Engineering Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 Phone: +1 919-392-2359 Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 ============================================ > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > hope this helps, > Al > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 10 09:10:35 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09412 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14PL-0000GY-LL; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14P2-0000Ex-Sh for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09400 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14P1-0004Rc-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14O4-0004IW-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:45 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14Nl-00048e-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:25 -0500 Received: from pdini-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn2-496.cisco.com [10.21.113.240]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2AE7p8Q014376; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:07:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040310060236.02d9a820@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com> X-Sender: pdini@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:07:51 -0800 To: "Robert Holley" From: Petre Dini Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Cc: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" , In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 08:49 AM 3/10/2004 -0500, Robert Holley wrote: >Al, > >Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than write about >it). > >I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get things done. >One caveat though is for external groups. > >For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to outage/reliability >reporting. ATIS and T1A1 has already several documents proposing metrics and methodologies for computing/reporting outages; references to IETF and ITU are made. ATIS: http://www.atis.org/ T1A1.2: http://www.t1.org/t1a1/_a12-hom.htm >Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select >something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a comparison. >Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they >should develop the paper. > >Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it seems like a >comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or >perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. > >In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. > >regards >Bob >============================================ >Robert Holley >Network Consulting Engineer >Global Solutions Engineering > >Cisco Systems >7025 Kit Creek Road. >Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 >Phone: +1 919-392-2359 >Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 >============================================ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > > > hope this helps, > > Al > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >ippm mailing list >ippm@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 10 09:12:18 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09496 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:12:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14R3-0000Wg-Hu for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:49 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2AEBnAP002016 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14R3-0000WR-Cc for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09489 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14R1-0004nD-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:47 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14Q3-0004dC-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:47 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14PO-0004T8-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14PL-0000GY-LL; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:10:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14P2-0000Ex-Sh for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09400 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14P1-0004Rc-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:43 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14O4-0004IW-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:45 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14Nl-00048e-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:25 -0500 Received: from pdini-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn2-496.cisco.com [10.21.113.240]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2AE7p8Q014376; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:07:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040310060236.02d9a820@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com> X-Sender: pdini@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:07:51 -0800 To: "Robert Holley" From: Petre Dini Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Cc: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" , In-Reply-To: References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040305112128.0299d9e0@custsla.mt.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 At 08:49 AM 3/10/2004 -0500, Robert Holley wrote: >Al, > >Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than write about >it). > >I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get things done. >One caveat though is for external groups. > >For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to outage/reliability >reporting. ATIS and T1A1 has already several documents proposing metrics and methodologies for computing/reporting outages; references to IETF and ITU are made. ATIS: http://www.atis.org/ T1A1.2: http://www.t1.org/t1a1/_a12-hom.htm >Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select >something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a comparison. >Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they >should develop the paper. > >Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it seems like a >comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or >perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. > >In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. > >regards >Bob >============================================ >Robert Holley >Network Consulting Engineer >Global Solutions Engineering > >Cisco Systems >7025 Kit Creek Road. >Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 >Phone: +1 919-392-2359 >Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 >============================================ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > > > hope this helps, > > Al > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >ippm mailing list >ippm@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 10 09:43:39 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA11036 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14vF-0002zj-20; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14uL-0002zD-Ac for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10826 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14uJ-0002TL-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:03 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14tK-0002H6-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:41:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14sN-00020m-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:40:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2004 06:44:45 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2AEdUUk025253; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id JAA27540; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Petre Dini" Cc: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" , Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040310060236.02d9a820@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Petre, Excellent observation. T1A1 is working in this area as I implied in the previous post (in fact I've worked on one of the papers). However, I don't believe T1A1 has reached a conclusion on this subject. Work is continuing. regards Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Petre Dini [mailto:pdini@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:08 AM > To: Robert Holley > Cc: Al Morton; Matthew J Zekauskas; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > At 08:49 AM 3/10/2004 -0500, Robert Holley wrote: > >Al, > > > >Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than > write about > >it). > > > >I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get > things done. > >One caveat though is for external groups. > > > >For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to > outage/reliability > >reporting. > > ATIS and T1A1 has already several documents proposing metrics and > methodologies for computing/reporting outages; references to IETF and ITU > are made. > ATIS: http://www.atis.org/ > T1A1.2: http://www.t1.org/t1a1/_a12-hom.htm > > >Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select > >something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a > comparison. > >Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they > >should develop the paper. > > > >Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it > seems like a > >comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or > >perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. > > > >In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. > > > >regards > >Bob > >============================================ > >Robert Holley > >Network Consulting Engineer > >Global Solutions Engineering > > > >Cisco Systems > >7025 Kit Creek Road. > >Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 > >Phone: +1 919-392-2359 > >Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 > >============================================ > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > > > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > > > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > > > > > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > > > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > > > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > > > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > > > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > > > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > > > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > > > > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > > > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > > > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > > > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > > > > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > > > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > > > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > > > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > > > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > > > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > > > > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > > > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > > > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > > > > > hope this helps, > > > Al > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ippm mailing list > >ippm@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 10 09:45:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA11155 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14wt-0003Bn-6Z for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:43 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2AEihi6012259 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14wt-0003Be-1Q for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA11132 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14wr-00030x-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:41 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14vx-0002rU-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:43:46 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14vO-0002i2-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:43:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14vF-0002zj-20; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B14uL-0002zD-Ac for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10826 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14uJ-0002TL-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:42:03 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B14tK-0002H6-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:41:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B14sN-00020m-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:40:03 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Mar 2004 06:44:45 -0800 Received: from mcfeely.cisco.com (mcfeely.cisco.com [161.44.11.34]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2AEdUUk025253; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from RHOLLEYW2K1 (dhcp-64-102-43-229.cisco.com [64.102.43.229]) by mcfeely.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with SMTP id JAA27540; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert Holley" To: "Petre Dini" Cc: "Al Morton" , "Matthew J Zekauskas" , Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040310060236.02d9a820@mira-sjc5-c.cisco.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Petre, Excellent observation. T1A1 is working in this area as I implied in the previous post (in fact I've worked on one of the papers). However, I don't believe T1A1 has reached a conclusion on this subject. Work is continuing. regards Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Petre Dini [mailto:pdini@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:08 AM > To: Robert Holley > Cc: Al Morton; Matthew J Zekauskas; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > At 08:49 AM 3/10/2004 -0500, Robert Holley wrote: > >Al, > > > >Seems like a very practical approach (e.g. to do it rather than > write about > >it). > > > >I agree that is an effective method within the workgroup to get > things done. > >One caveat though is for external groups. > > > >For example, I know T1A1 is looking at some approaches to > outage/reliability > >reporting. > > ATIS and T1A1 has already several documents proposing metrics and > methodologies for computing/reporting outages; references to IETF and ITU > are made. > ATIS: http://www.atis.org/ > T1A1.2: http://www.t1.org/t1a1/_a12-hom.htm > > >Rather than develop their own metrics, they will probably select > >something from either the IETF or ITU. A first step would be a > comparison. > >Of course one could argue that if T1A1 needs the information, then they > >should develop the paper. > > > >Rather than have an external group make observations, imho it > seems like a > >comparison authored by the IETF and a comparison authored by the ITU (or > >perhaps jointly developed) would be more effective. > > > >In any case, I would hope that one would be a super-set of the other. > > > >regards > >Bob > >============================================ > >Robert Holley > >Network Consulting Engineer > >Global Solutions Engineering > > > >Cisco Systems > >7025 Kit Creek Road. > >Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 > >Phone: +1 919-392-2359 > >Pager: +1 800-796-7363 pin 100-9187 > >============================================ > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:58 PM > > > To: Matthew J Zekauskas; Robert Holley > > > Cc: ippm@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group > > > > > > > > > At 08:34 AM 03/04/2004, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > > > >In particular, Al Morton, who attended both ITU meetings and IPPM > > > >meetings recommended at IETF56 in San Francisco (and before) > > > >that it be dropped - for example, see item 1 in > > > > > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03mar/226.htm > > > > > > > >(although there is not much detail there). > > > >Al, maybe you could summarize your position? > > > > > > Sure. I think that when Will Leland first analyzed the > > > differences (in a talk at IETF-44?), there were a few > > > dingers, such as attributing infinite delay to lost packets, > > > and the two different approaches to assessing delay variation. > > > > > > When the comparison draft was discussed in Minneapolis a few > > > years later, I said that IPPM should avoid taking up this work > > > while there were moving targets. Delay variation was work in > > > progress in both bodies, and we ended up with pretty-good agreement. > > > For example, it's possible to make an ITU-T PDV measurement within > > > the options of IPPM's IPDV. > > > > > > So, at IETF-55, I recommended that we continue to spend > > > our time minimizing the differences, rather than writing about them > > > (and I repeat this sentence whenever the topic comes-up). > > > > > > hope this helps, > > > Al > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ippm mailing list > >ippm@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Wed Mar 10 16:36:43 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08277 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BMv-00014o-SX; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BMp-00014J-LG for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08259 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BMn-0000D7-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:53 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BLs-00004z-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:34:56 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BLW-0007kQ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:34:34 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id B791D4E7FC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683684E7F9; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ALY3ht010181; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2ALY21K030758; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:02 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:02 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: Robert Holley Cc: Petre Dini , Al Morton , Matthew J Zekauskas , ippm@ietf.org Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.351937 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 36bd6e028e378a289ad8926e16f27e58 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Robert Holley wrote: > T1A1 is working in this area as I implied in the previous post (in fact > I've worked on one of the papers). However, I don't believe T1A1 has > reached a conclusion on this subject. Work is continuing. Just to be 100% clear: The fact that this item is removed from the milestones means that the group doesn't see a need for a document comparing the IPPM metrics with something else TODAY. If this changes anytime in the future, then it can always put back on the list. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Mar 10 16:38:26 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08403 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:38:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BOn-0001QQ-T9 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:58 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2ALbvDH005465 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:57 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BOm-0001Q3-Fo for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08364 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BOk-0000YG-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:54 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BNr-0000NF-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:37:00 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BN8-0000Ed-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BMv-00014o-SX; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1BMp-00014J-LG for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08259 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BMn-0000D7-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:35:53 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BLs-00004z-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:34:56 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1BLW-0007kQ-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:34:34 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id B791D4E7FC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683684E7F9; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from cow.ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ALY3ht010181; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by cow.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2ALY21K030758; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:02 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: cow.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:34:02 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: Robert Holley Cc: Petre Dini , Al Morton , Matthew J Zekauskas , ippm@ietf.org Subject: RE: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.351937 / 0.0 / 0.0 X-RIPE-Signature: 36bd6e028e378a289ad8926e16f27e58 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Robert Holley wrote: > T1A1 is working in this area as I implied in the previous post (in fact > I've worked on one of the papers). However, I don't believe T1A1 has > reached a conclusion on this subject. Work is continuing. Just to be 100% clear: The fact that this item is removed from the milestones means that the group doesn't see a need for a document comparing the IPPM metrics with something else TODAY. If this changes anytime in the future, then it can always put back on the list. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-admin@ietf.org Tue Mar 16 10:58:09 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07640 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:58:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gw8-0001xn-Mk; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:57:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gw0-0001xM-MR for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07592 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Gvy-0007bo-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:50 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Guy-0007Xn-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:55:49 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3GuY-0007T5-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:55:22 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id C146A4FEF0; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5574FEE1 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from x49.ripe.net (x49.ripe.net [193.0.1.49]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2GFsqht007240 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by x49.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2GFsqUO029035 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: x49.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.015028 / 0.0 / 0.0 / disabled X-RIPE-Signature: 04ca3790020779be2b1f63996a1a4ebb X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , IPPM group, On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) wrote: > During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for > the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them > due to a lack of interest. [...] > If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan to work on > them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that > a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. > Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), That's today, if there are no further comments, then we'll declare this list final. Henk > The full list of milestones is at > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of > open items with their new, proposed, due date: > > Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link bandwidth capacity. > Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be > contacted by the chairs. > > Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay > and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). > Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. > > Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol that satisfies > the requirements document. > Comment: see next mail. > > Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP performance metrics. > Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has disappeared, > it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. > > Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, > for consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk > transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. > Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft > expired. > > Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, > or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 (connectivity, loss, & > delay). > > Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. > See next mail for details. > > Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG for Proposed > Standard > Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. > > Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS > > Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for > consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. > Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. > > Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the > IESG for consideration as a PS > > > > > Matt & Henk > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk > P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 > 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 > The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit > and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Mar 16 11:00:10 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07706 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gym-0002Dl-F3 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:59:44 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2GFxiGj008536 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:59:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gym-0002Db-4B for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:59:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07684 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Gyj-00001B-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:59:41 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Gxk-0007k7-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:58:41 -0500 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Gwn-0007fX-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:57:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gw8-0001xn-Mk; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:57:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3Gw0-0001xM-MR for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07592 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Gvy-0007bo-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:56:50 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B3Guy-0007Xn-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:55:49 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B3GuY-0007T5-00 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:55:22 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id C146A4FEF0; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5574FEE1 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from x49.ripe.net (x49.ripe.net [193.0.1.49]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2GFsqht007240 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by x49.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2GFsqUO029035 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: x49.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Revised list of milestones for the group In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.015028 / 0.0 / 0.0 / disabled X-RIPE-Signature: 04ca3790020779be2b1f63996a1a4ebb Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 IPPM group, On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC) wrote: > During Tuesday's meeting, we discussed the list of open milestones for > the group and made suggestions on how to either finish them or drop them > due to a lack of interest. [...] > If you were the author of any of the dropped items and still plan to work on > them, please contact us with a new ETA. Also contact us if you feel that > a work item should not be dropped _and_ you have time to work on it. > Please comment on this proposal by March 16 (2 weeks from today), That's today, if there are no further comments, then we'll declare this list final. Henk > The full list of milestones is at > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ippm-charter.html, here is the list of > open items with their new, proposed, due date: > > Aug 04 Create initial draft on the definitions of link bandwidth capacity. > Comment: a potential author has been identified and will be > contacted by the chairs. > > Remove Create initial draft on a sensitivity analysis of one-way delay > and loss metric parameters (companion to the AS). > Comment: there is no interest in this anymore. > > Aug 04 Create draft on a One-Way Active Measurement Protocol that satisfies > the requirements document. > Comment: see next mail. > > Remove Create initial draft on comparing ITU and IETF IP performance metrics. > Comment: the person who expressed interest in this has disappeared, > it has also been argued hat this document is no longer necessary. > > Dec 04 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, > for consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Remove Submit draft on bulk transfer capacity metric based on the bulk > transfer framework (CAP) to the IESG for Proposed Standard. > Comment: Interest from the authors has disappeared, the draft > expired. > > Dec 04 Submit recommendation to the IESG on whether to advance, recycle, > or deprecate RFCs 2678, 2679, 2680, and 2681 (connectivity, loss, & > delay). > > Replace by: collect implementation reports for RFCs 2678-2681. > See next mail for details. > > Oct 04 Submit draft on a packet reordering metric to the IESG for Proposed > Standard > Comment: This document exists but needs more readers. > > Remove Submit AS for one-way delay and loss to the IESG for PS > > Remove Submit sensitivity analysis of one-way delay and loss, for > consideration as an Informational RFC. > > Dec 04? Submit draft on a MIB for reporting IPPM metrics. > Comment: this is under discussion, a mail will follow later. > > Aug 04 Submit draft on the One-Way Active Measurement Protocol to the > IESG for consideration as a PS > > > > > Matt & Henk > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net > RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk > P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 > 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 > The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit > and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly. (David Brent). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Mar 30 18:27:38 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA00496 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:27:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B8RjD-0006ZK-Hn for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:29:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA79ZgNk011198 for ippm-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:35:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI31p-0002uS-Se for ippm-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:35:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07302 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:35:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI31m-0001uA-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:35:38 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI31m-0001to-00 for ippm-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:35:38 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI31C-0002nD-0r; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:35:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI30W-0002mG-Ef for ippm@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:34:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07218; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:34:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI30R-0001sM-00; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:34:15 -0500 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI30Q-0001sJ-00; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 04:34:15 -0500 Received: from lanmhs50.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.21.52]) by parsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:34:11 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:34:10 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: URGENT: IPPM WG doc Thread-Index: AcOirZpJ7+Z/OG7OTUapqUB4wHfyzwCYSBWw From: "STEPHAN Emile FTRD/DAC/LAN" To: , "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC)" , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2003 09:34:11.0703 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D0A7070:01C3A512] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [ippm] URGENT: IPPM WG doc Sender: ippm-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear, In the IPPM WG I am in charge of the draft-ietf-ippm-metrics-registry-04.txt. The WG document draft-ietf-ippm-metrics-registry-04.txt disappeared from the web page of the IPPM WG and from the internet draft list too. Is it due to some mistake ?=20 Regards Emile _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm