From mailman-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 1 10:11:33 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08195 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZSnq-0004MF-JR for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 06:37:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@ietf.org To: ippm-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Message-ID: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 05:57:21 -0500 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Mailman site list X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-bounces@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- ippm@ietf.org wurudu https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/ippm/ippm-archive%40lists.ietf.org From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 2 06:55:15 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05402 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:55:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZpS3-0005DK-Uo; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:48:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZpBi-0005PJ-HY for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:31:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA02826 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend-1.servers.ua.pt ([193.136.173.2] helo=frontend-1.cgpmail.ua.pt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZpHD-0007jP-V4 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:37:36 -0500 Received: from av.it.pt ([193.136.92.53] verified) by frontend-1.cgpmail.ua.pt (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.6) with ESMTP id 39099538 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:29:04 +0000 Received: from [193.136.93.152] (account hveiga@av.it.pt) by av.it.pt (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.2.5) with HTTP id 2049198; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:29:03 +0000 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E9lder?= Veiga" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E9lder?= Veiga" X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.2.5 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:29:03 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id GAA02826 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] A java implementation of OWAMP X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, =20 =20 This is to announce that we have completed the first phase of development of a Java implementation of OWAMP. You can find more information on this platform in http://www.av.it.pt/jowamp. =20 =20 =20 Any comments are welcome. =20 =20 =20 Best regards. =20 =20 H=E9lder Veiga Rui Valadas Jos=E9 Luis Oliveira Paulo Salvador Ant=F3nio Nogueira _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 06:17:10 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24409 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 06:17:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbGou-0006bm-GX; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:14:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbGlG-0004tZ-AS for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:10:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23885 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 06:10:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbGrb-0007pR-IY for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:17:07 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id A039824008; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:10:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E972429F for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:10:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from x49.ripe.net (x49.ripe.net [193.0.1.49]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iB6BA1LE014923 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:10:01 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by x49.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6BA1Tn001458 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:10:01 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: x49.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:10:01 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -5.9 X-RIPE-Signature: b3acb1e614fb424e716646e87e5e7690 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Subject: [ippm] WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM group, The latest draft of "Packet Reordering Metric for IPPM" has all the fixes and changes suggested on this list and at previous IETF meetings. The chairs propose a Working Group last-call for this document, draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt Please comment on whether or not you feel that this Internet-Draft should be given to the Area Directors and the IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard RFC. Submit your comments to the IPPM mailing list or to the chairs or I-D authors as you feel appropriate (although public comments are preferred). This Working Group last call will end on Thursday, December 23, 2004 at 17:00 GMT. One pointer for the document is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt The chairs, Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 07:32:53 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04005 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:32:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbHcn-00014u-OS; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:05:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbHbh-0000fT-6H; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:04:45 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28911; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:04:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412061204.HAA28911@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:04:42 -0500 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Packet Reordering Metric for IPPM Author(s) : A. Morton, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt Pages : 34 Date : 2004-12-3 This memo defines metrics to evaluate if a network has maintained packet order on a packet-by-packet basis. It provides motivations for the new metrics and discusses the measurement issues. The memo first defines a reordered singleton, and then uses it as the basis for sample metrics to quantify the extent of reordering in several useful dimensions for network characterization or receiver design. Additional metrics quantify the frequency of reordering and the distance between separate occurrences. We then define a metric with purely receiver analysis orientation. Several examples of evaluation using the various sample metrics are included. An Appendix gives extended definitions for evaluating order with packet fragmentation. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-6073314.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-6073314.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:53:25 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11450 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:53:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNol-0006dp-7u; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:42:39 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNmo-00068n-Td; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:40:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09895; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:40:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNt1-0003Yy-Pb; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:47:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904A31CD733; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17044-10; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442771CD730; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:40:24 -0500 (EST) To: Internet-Drafts Administrator From: stanislav shalunov Date: 06 Dec 2004 13:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: <86u0qzp8w9.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 46 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dear Internet-Drafts Administrator, Please publish http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ippm/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt (SHA1 = 54fe8def0f324a988f1b41e5a55f2dd5819018af) as an internet-draft. Thank you. IPPM, This version (12) of the OWAMP specification contains the following changes compared to the version 11: * WIRE FORMAT CHANGE: The key in OWAMP-Test (authenticated and encrypted modes) is changed from the session key k of the OWAMP-Control session that spawned the OWAMP-Test session to AES_k(SID), where SID is the OWAMP-Test session identifier. This prevents an attack identified by Sam Weiler where authenticators from one stream are used with another stream (within the same OWAMP-Control session). * WIRE FORMAT CHANGE: Removed one block of IZP from the Fetch-Ack message. The Test-Request section concludes with a block of IZP and having an extra block of IZP is redundant and potentially confusing. * Change Fetch-Ack field name to be less confusing. Specify values for num skips/next_seqno if session is not terminated. (No wire format change.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBQbSnkJRUn1EgN49xAQHIcgQAvz51bkgxqmqkDvIoRrpCNOYmIAA/auGs IxIBn5gZxX/JGVHyG2FPgAVRluBXLJL34ua6BHYMAguyl1cIVHf8XSuOK21GVjwb qhRTX9TblMisfooefs1R6NH8vXc7ZEYJGGtSDipf+1hQFiAe816vCgqzxY3RCQWN sS/5TwEBZio= =byZJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed at an angle of 45 degrees. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 08:55:37 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA00593 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbfkZ-00086q-Cp; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:51:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbfgI-0007DZ-Sx for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:47:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29520 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from almso2.att.com ([192.128.166.71] helo=almso2.proxy.att.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbfms-0003nI-Ee for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:53:54 -0500 Received: from attrh3i.attrh.att.com ([135.38.62.9]) by almso2.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-5.5) with ESMTP id iB7DkYD2026743 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:46:35 -0500 Received: from custsla.mt.att.com (135.21.14.109) by attrh3i.attrh.att.com (7.1.006) id 41AA056500222C7A for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:46:34 -0500 Received: from acmortonw.att.com (acmortonw.mt.att.com [135.16.251.14]) by custsla.mt.att.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id iB7DkXZ08207 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:46:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20041207084306.026b5eb0@custsla.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm@custsla.mt.att.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 08:46:30 -0500 To: ippm@ietf.org From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt In-Reply-To: <200412061204.HAA28911@ietf.org> References: <200412061204.HAA28911@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 07:04 AM 12/06/2004, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >...A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-08.txt Again, I posted an "htmlwdiff" version here http://home.comcast.net/~acmacm/ The synchronization is a little rough in some places, but it may help folks who just want to see what changed. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 8 16:54:34 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09889 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cc9OY-0003fp-6c; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:30:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cc9D2-0007cs-PY; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:18:52 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04343; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:18:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412082118.QAA04343@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:18:50 -0500 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A One-way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) Author(s) : S. Shalunov, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt Pages : 50 Date : 2004-12-8 With growing availability of good time sources to network nodes, it becomes increasingly possible to measure one-way IP performance metrics with high precision. To do so in an interoperable manner, a common protocol for such measurements is required. The One-Way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) can measure one-way delay, as well as other unidirectional characteristics, such as one-way loss. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-8164756.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-12.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-8164756.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 05:16:56 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29938 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cchnl-0004K6-7F; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:15:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CchlR-0003oJ-BS for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:12:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29629 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:12:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cchsb-0000tb-42 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:20:05 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id C342125199; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BF2262BC; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:12:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from x49.ripe.net (x49.ripe.net [193.0.1.49]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iBAAC1LE000613; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:12:01 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by x49.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBAAC1uZ005661; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:12:01 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: x49.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:12:01 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: U 0.314415 / -5.9 X-RIPE-Signature: a9f2633554d6135dcb340a1c9fff327c X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 Cc: Matthew J Zekauskas Subject: [ippm] Draft minutes of the Washington IPPM meeting X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Dear All, Apologies for the lateness of these minutes. Below is the first and probably final draft of the minutes of the IPPM meeting in Washington last month. If you have comments, please send them to Matt and myself before 16:00 ET today. Henk - - - - - IP Performance Metrics WG (ippm) Tuesday, November 9 at 0900-1130 ================================= The meeting was chaired by Henk Uijterwaal and Matt Zekauskas. Al Morton acted as scribe with additional notes by Matt; raw notes were edited into these minutes by the chairs. Agenda: 1. Review of Agenda and Status of Milestones 2. One-Way Active Measurements Protocol 3. Reordering drafts 4. Implementation reports for RFC2678-2681. 5. Multiparty Communications Parameters and Metrics. 6. Status of the Link Bandwidth Draft. 7. Discussion on an open network performance testing protocol. 1. Review of Agenda and Status of Drafts and Milestones Henk opened the meeting with a review of the agenda. No one had any suggestions for further changes. He then went on to review working group status. The link bandwidth draft was due in August; although there is no draft to date there has been progress, and Phil Chimento will report on current thinking later. There are four drafts in progress. The MIB draft did not show sufficient interest on the mailing list, so it will be dropped from the charter; it can, however, go on as an individual draft so the work done to date is not lost. Two new work items have been proposed: multi-to-multi measurements and a way to store traceroutes. A personal draft on multiparty communication parameters and metrics has been created and announced to the list; no draft has been created for traceroutes. 2. One-Way Active Measurements Protocol -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-11.txt A summary of all the changes is in the slides. There was a substantial wire-format change to robustly differentiate between packets that were sent and not received and packets that were never sent (if, for example, a measurement host had internal sending delays with a relatively small timeout, such that packets would have been sent too late to be recieved. The ability to start in the past was removed (as the packets are just not sent anyway); there is a new section on timing of packets as sent that clarifies and makes explicit some implications that existed in the old text. The security section has been expanded substantially to clarify requirements and explain design decisions. Return codes in the "ACCEPT field" have been expanded; there was some discussion of what it means to be an internal error versus the catchall failure; internal errors are completely unexpect - something wrong in the underlying implementation. There is now a MUST to remember the list of skipped packets (which can happen for a number of practical reasons). Stanislav ended by noting that we still need a security review; Steve Bellovin asked two people to review; one could not, and the other has not yet completed his review. Jeff Dunn from SI international offered to provide a review, and the chairs will push on the IESG folks again. 3. Reordering drafts -- Al Morton http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-07.txt Al Morton reported on the status of the reordering draft. There were a number of substantive comments from last call on the mailing list. See slides for the proposed changes based on the last call comments. Al will revise the draft, and we will last call the draft again. There were no comments on the proposed changes from the floor. Al asked if he could get an additional person to read and comment on the draft; Phil Chimento offered to do so. 4. Implementation reports for RFC2678-2681. Henk once again called for implementation reports. We've received three so far. Keynam Hedayat from Brix offered an implementation report; Al Morton said he would try to do one as well. Henk asked that any reports be received by mid-December; this would allow the chairs to compile them over the holidays. 5. Multiparty Communications Parameters and Metrics. draft-liang-multiparty-para-00.txt The author has asked us to discuss the draft and see if it should be picked up as a working group item. This is a personal draft that was announced on the mailing list, but there has been no comment so far. Roughly, this draft concerns the QoS requirements of multiparty communication services, and places them in terms of measurement parameters. It tries to derive a set of parameter metrics from the existing one-way metrics in IPPM. Henk asked if anyone in the audience had read the draft, no one had. Therefore the chairs did not ask if it should be a working group item. Matt noted that this draft is reminicent of Emile Stephan's spatial metrics draft. Emile said he would read and comment. 6. Status of the Link Bandwidth Draft. --Phil Chimento Mark Allman pointed Phil in the direction of a workshop held at CAIDA last December, and he started with that to take a survey of the current tools and techniques. (See the slides.) There were many tools with three different base techniques, and these techniques (and tools) all measure different things. Phil listed a bunch of difficulties in creating a metric. Phil asked what we should focus on in the draft. We could do a critical analysis of current tools; provide definitions; start at first principles and create definitions, required metrics, and statistical analyses. Matt mentioned that the original intent was to simply attack the definitions. Jeff Dunn supported a rigorous approach; note requirments, which techniques were good, which were questionable, and a statistical analysis. He felt that there was questionable reporting and inferences drawn in what he sees; and he would like to see "solid math" and calculus of probability applied to this area to see what is going on. He also noted that MPLS is another thing that should be added to Phil's difficulty list -- it could add overhead. Matt Mathis noted that there was a general problem with this class of metrics, because operational simply measure utilization with SNMP. He asked if any ISPs are doing this... or would it just be used to check an ISP's service. He also noted that SLA generation based on metrics was not an area the IESG deemed the group should pursue. Cynthia Martin said the DoD uses this to assure they get the bandwidth contracted for. Joeseph Issac said the draft should have definitions and overview of tools, but detalied statistics is probably too much given the state of the art. If we want a document describing statistical analysis, it should be separate. Someone that worked for MCI said that this was a good proposal; we should have definitions and not approach the methodology. What matters is the time measurements are taken, and traffic patterns, these considerations should be documented. Roman Krzanowski from Verizon said the definition is an open issue; and thinks this draft represents something that is needed. Phil asked which of the things the different tools measured would be most useful (link capacity, availble capacity, bottleneck/tight link...); Roman said it depends on the part of the network you were interested in, but he would like to have reliable measurements of capacity. He would especially like agreed upon metrics in this area. Henk said that in discussion with ISPS he finds end-to-end parameters are the most important; ISPs know link parameters, but they don't know end-to-end parameters. Roman has attended the IDQ workshop and available BW was of interest there. Summary will be taken to the list. Emile Stephan noted that we have discussed active techniques, but passive techniques are also needed. He said it was important to note what could be measured and with what accuracy. If one operator is sending to another you want to know how the measurement was performed, using what methodology and which accuracy. Roman said he concurred; we have methodology and technology but we do not have agreement. 7. Discussion on an open network performance testing protocol. --Roman Krzanowski Verizon Technologies Roman works on architecture and SLA/monitoring, and he is faced with multiple classes/technologies. Despite all the definitions and dedicated capapbilities, there are no standards for conducting measurements. The cost for maintenance of measurement devices far exceeds the cost of the device. Scaling is huge at the customer edge - 1000's of points. What Roman proposes (desires) is a protocol that is implemented in the deployed hardware for latencey, packet loss and jitter. This protocol must be open, so it can be implemented by multiple manufacturers. He also sees the need the measurement designs to be standardized. Outline for protocol requirements (see slides): accuracy <1ms, support the IPPM RFCs, etc. Al Morton noted the list of metrics focused on round-trip, which is practical. Roman said yes, because it is easy. You can get accurate time everywhere, but it is not free. Jeff Dunn made a number of observations related to timing and what was possible, including that a system must sample appropriately for the accuracy desired, and these conditions should go into the archtecture. Roman said he was interested in the practicality so that we can get something fundimental and basic in everywhere. Jeff also noted you need special treatment of measurement traffic to get accuracy, but that impacts other traffic. Matt Mathis thought we were looking for the holy grail of measurement: you want to measure everything, you want to pay nothing. He said Roman should look at the IPMP draft that has been discussed here previously, and the reprot from the IRTF measurement group on that protocol. ICMP does work well because it does not get preferred access to resources. IPMP has diverged into two camps, and input from ISPs might help. The IRTF review proposed making this simpler. Just find a way to record a timestamp, and a cookie that the ISP can understand. Can infer everything you are looking for except loss rate from this data. The person from MCI felt that it was very expensive to get core line cards to do the time stamps. It was also important to be sure you define where the edges of what you measure are. Roman will follow up. Keynam from Brix said we shouldn't argue, but be open to all solutions in measurement, both hardware and software. He wanted a clarification if we are looking at a protocol for testing, or a protocol for reporting? Roman said that if you are doing testing, must agree on some way of collecting data, but that is secondary to agreeing on testing methodology and protocol. Al Morton said that how the providers make measurements is another point where we need to agree, and we need comparable measurements to do some inter-domain work. We had an AS draft in IPPM that attempted to narrow the field. That might be a good first step toward what you want. Roman was going to follow up after reading the IPMP report posted to the IMRG and IPPM list, as well as the OWAMP drafts. With that the meeting used the alloted time, and the meeting was closed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 16:28:10 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27201 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:28:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ccs5Y-0007i7-Tx; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:14:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcrYb-00011c-4h for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16066 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccrfq-00050N-4K for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:47:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05C41CD6C0; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25689-05; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from BMW (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFE61CD905; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:40:01 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: presentations@ietf.org Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.3 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Henk Uijterwaal , Matt Zekauskas , ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Presentations from IPPM at IETF61 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Presentations from the IPPM session at IETF61 are available off of --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 18:26:15 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09738 for ; 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Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:24:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:24:14 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas To: proceedings@ietf.org Message-ID: <4FD4C637427174F869FF50E4@DCFF15AFC1F6764BA3927E50> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.3 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:21:09 -0500 Cc: Allison Mankin , Henk Uijterwaal , Matt Zekauskas , Jon Peterson , ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Minutes for IPPM from IETF61 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These will also be available from ================================================================= IP Performance Metrics WG (ippm) Tuesday, November 9 at 0900-1130 ================================= The meeting was chaired by Henk Uijterwaal and Matt Zekauskas. Al Morton acted as scribe with additional notes by Matt; raw notes were edited into these minutes by the chairs. Agenda: 1. Review of Agenda and Status of Milestones 2. One-Way Active Measurements Protocol 3. Reordering drafts 4. Implementation reports for RFC2678-2681. 5. Multiparty Communications Parameters and Metrics. 6. Status of the Link Bandwidth Draft. 7. Discussion on an open network performance testing protocol. 1. Review of Agenda and Status of Drafts and Milestones Henk opened the meeting with a review of the agenda. No one had any suggestions for further changes. He then went on to review working group status. The link bandwidth draft was due in August; although there is no draft to date there has been progress, and Phil Chimento will report on current thinking later. There are four drafts in progress. The MIB draft did not show sufficient interest on the mailing list, so it will be dropped from the charter; it can, however, go on as an individual draft so the work done to date is not lost. Two new work items have been proposed: multi-to-multi measurements and a way to store traceroutes. A personal draft on multiparty communication parameters and metrics has been created and announced to the list; no draft has been created for traceroutes. 2. One-Way Active Measurements Protocol -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-11.txt A summary of all the changes is in the slides. There was a substantial wire-format change to robustly differentiate between packets that were sent and not received and packets that were never sent (if, for example, a measurement host had internal sending delays with a relatively small timeout, such that packets would have been sent too late to be received. The ability to start in the past was removed (as the packets are just not sent anyway); there is a new section on timing of packets as sent that clarifies and makes explicit some implications that existed in the old text. The security section has been expanded substantially to clarify requirements and explain design decisions. Return codes in the "ACCEPT field" have been expanded; there was some discussion of what it means to be an internal error versus the catchall failure; internal errors are completely unexpected - something wrong in the underlying implementation. There is now a MUST to remember the list of skipped packets (which can happen for a number of practical reasons). Stanislav ended by noting that we still need a security review; Steve Bellovin asked two people to review; one could not, and the other has not yet completed his review. Jeff Dunn from SI international offered to provide a review, and the chairs will push on the IESG folks again. 3. Reordering drafts -- Al Morton http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-07.txt Al Morton reported on the status of the reordering draft. There were a number of substantive comments from last call on the mailing list. See slides for the proposed changes based on the last call comments. One issue that Al brought up that requires closure is that of duplicate packets. Handling duplicate packets has memory implications that vary by implementation. Al did not feel that we could just ignore duplicate packets. The current draft has suggestions on dealing with the memory implications - moreso than in previous IPPM metrics (or in BMWG). These other drafts have been accepted, why is the memory implication now a large issue? Al proposes that if no further comments are received, the extra documentation closes this issue. Randy Presuhn noted (prior to meeting) that we should document the closure of this issue explicitly. There were no objections during the meeting. Al will revise the draft, and we will last call the draft again. There were no comments on the proposed changes from the floor. Al asked if he could get an additional person to read and comment on the draft; Phil Chimento offered to do so. 4. Implementation reports for RFC2678-2681. Henk once again called for implementation reports. We've received three so far. Keynam Hedayat from Brix offered an implementation report; Al Morton said he would try to do one as well. Henk asked that any reports be received by mid-December; this would allow the chairs to compile them over the holidays. 5. Multiparty Communications Parameters and Metrics. draft-liang-multiparty-para-00.txt The author has asked us to discuss the draft and see if it should be picked up as a working group item. This is a personal draft that was announced on the mailing list, but there has been no comment so far. Roughly, this draft concerns the QoS requirements of multiparty communication services, and places them in terms of measurement parameters. It tries to derive a set of parameter metrics from the existing one-way metrics in IPPM. Henk asked if anyone in the audience had read the draft, no one had. Therefore the chairs did not ask if it should be a working group item. Matt noted that this draft is reminiscent of Emile Stephan's spatial metrics draft. Emile said he would read and comment. 6. Status of the Link Bandwidth Draft. --Phil Chimento Mark Allman pointed Phil in the direction of a workshop held at CAIDA last December, and he started with that to take a survey of the current tools and techniques. (See the slides.) There were many tools with three different base techniques, and these techniques (and tools) all measure different things. Phil listed a bunch of difficulties in creating a metric. Phil asked what we should focus on in the draft. We could do a critical analysis of current tools; provide definitions; start at first principles and create definitions, required metrics, and statistical analyses. Matt mentioned that the original intent was to simply attack the definitions. Jeff Dunn supported a rigorous approach; note requirements, which techniques were good, which were questionable, and a statistical analysis. He felt that there was questionable reporting and inferences drawn in what he sees; and he would like to see "solid math" and calculus of probability applied to this area to see what is going on. He also noted that MPLS is another thing that should be added to Phil's difficulty list -- it could add overhead. Matt Mathis noted that there was a general problem with this class of metrics, because operators simply measure utilization with SNMP. He asked if any ISPs are doing this... or would it just be used to check an ISP's service. He also noted that SLA generation based on metrics was not an area the IESG deemed the group should pursue. Cynthia Martin said the DoD uses this to assure they get the bandwidth contracted for. Joeseph Issac said the draft should have definitions and overview of tools, but detailed statistics is probably too much given the state of the art. If we want a document describing statistical analysis, it should be separate. Someone that worked for MCI said that this was a good proposal; we should have definitions and not approach the methodology. What matters is the time measurements are taken, and traffic patterns, these considerations should be documented. Roman Krzanowski from Verizon said the definition is an open issue; and thinks this draft represents something that is needed. Phil asked which of the things the different tools measured would be most useful (link capacity, available capacity, bottleneck/tight link...); Roman said it depends on the part of the network you were interested in, but he would like to have reliable measurements of capacity. He would especially like agreed upon metrics in this area. Henk said that in discussion with ISPS he finds end-to-end parameters are the most important; ISPs know link parameters, but they don't know end-to-end parameters. Roman has attended the IDQ workshop and available BW was of interest there. Summary will be taken to the list. Emile Stephan noted that we have discussed active techniques, but passive techniques are also needed. He said it was important to note what could be measured and with what accuracy. If one operator is sending to another you want to know how the measurement was performed, using what methodology and which accuracy. Roman said he concurred; we have methodology and technology but we do not have agreement. 7. Discussion on an open network performance testing protocol. --Roman Krzanowski Verizon Technologies Roman works on architecture and SLA/monitoring, and he is faced with multiple classes/technologies. Despite all the definitions and dedicated capabilities, there are no standards for conducting measurements. The cost for maintenance of measurement devices far exceeds the cost of the device. Scaling is huge at the customer edge - 1000's of points. What Roman proposes (desires) is a protocol that is implemented in the deployed hardware for latency, packet loss and jitter. This protocol must be open, so it can be implemented by multiple manufacturers. He also sees the need the measurement designs to be standardized. Outline for protocol requirements (see slides): accuracy <1ms, support the IPPM RFCs, etc. Al Morton noted the list of metrics focused on round-trip, which is practical. Roman said yes, because it is easy. You can get accurate time everywhere, but it is not free. Jeff Dunn made a number of observations related to timing and what was possible, including that a system must sample appropriately for the accuracy desired, and these conditions should go into the architecture. Roman said he was interested in the practicality so that we can get something fundamental and basic in everywhere. Jeff also noted you need special treatment of measurement traffic to get accuracy, but that impacts other traffic. Matt Mathis thought we were looking for the holy grail of measurement: you want to measure everything, you want to pay nothing. He said Roman should look at the IPMP draft that has been discussed here previously, and the report from the IRTF measurement group on that protocol. ICMP does work well because it does not get preferred access to resources. IPMP has diverged into two camps, and input from ISPs might help. The IRTF review proposed making this simpler. Just find a way to record a timestamp, and a cookie that the ISP can understand. Can infer everything you are looking for except loss rate from this data. The person from MCI felt that it was very expensive to get core line cards to do the time stamps. It was also important to be sure you define where the edges of what you measure are. Roman will follow up. Keynam from Brix said we shouldn't argue, but be open to all solutions in measurement, both hardware and software. He wanted a clarification if we are looking at a protocol for testing, or a protocol for reporting? Roman said that if you are doing testing, must agree on some way of collecting data, but that is secondary to agreeing on testing methodology and protocol. Al Morton said that how the providers make measurements is another point where we need to agree, and we need comparable measurements to do some inter-domain work. We had an AS draft in IPPM that attempted to narrow the field. That might be a good first step toward what you want. Roman was going to follow up after reading the IPMP report posted to the IMRG and IPPM list, as well as the OWAMP drafts. With that the meeting used the allotted time, and the meeting was closed. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 17:43:24 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21985 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4Iz-0004eg-HO; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:41:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4G2-0003Qy-R7; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:38:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21383; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4OX-0004AP-OO; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:46:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E621CD9FF; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07758-07; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7B11CD708; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:57 -0500 (EST) To: Internet-Drafts Administrator From: stanislav shalunov Date: 16 Dec 2004 17:37:56 -0500 Message-ID: <86wtvhoomz.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 28 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dear Internet-Drafts Administrator, Please publish http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ippm/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt (SHA1 = 57ee95d3c8c34fe168c657ce414ecbd98fd6de37) as an internet-draft. IPPM, I believe this draft to be ready for working group last call. - -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ This message is designed to be viewed in boustrophedon. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBQcIONZRUn1EgN49xAQErjgP+PSHFhRdD5mu+jqtaRbqnqSJIjzLDU/xx C9oJk/aguaxsJd2c1mtiGelCkmOvite4EmV7nqkHgmB18DbFCOGFbA3p+YVqjS8a Gyv9ucOl41CBto+Oq4LpLhlWRYF1smQNXiYeO1pYLeR7vYI6A04BXNAI3kvwAjkZ iC3P6Ko9P3s= =uHaf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 17 16:11:46 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07900 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfOqX-0008OC-0C; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:37:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfOkt-00053C-Lh; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:31:15 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00660; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:31:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412172031.PAA00660@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:31:13 -0500 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A One-way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) Author(s) : S. Shalunov, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2004-12-17 With growing availability of good time sources to network nodes, it becomes increasingly possible to measure one-way IP performance metrics with high precision. To do so in an interoperable manner, a common protocol for such measurements is required. The One-Way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) can measure one-way delay, as well as other unidirectional characteristics, such as one-way loss. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-17153801.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-13.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-17153801.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 20 08:26:50 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27179 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgNS4-000284-RO; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:19:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgNR0-0001so-Ad for ippm@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:18:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA26775 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgNaF-0008Qj-MB for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:28:21 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 8) id CDCAE24A7A; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:18:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C050324314 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:18:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from x49.ripe.net (x49.ripe.net [193.0.1.49]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iBKDIB8Q031394 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:18:11 +0100 Received: from localhost (henk@localhost) by x49.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBKDIBqp006615 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:18:11 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: x49.ripe.net: henk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:18:11 +0100 (CET) From: "Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE NCC)" To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -5.9 X-RIPE-Signature: 4f780d2f443fb6741726d6739d412803 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Subject: [ippm] DRAFT WGLC on draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM group, The latest draft of "A One-way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP)" (draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt) has all the fixes and changes suggested on this list and at previous IETF meetings. The document will appear on the IETF site shortly. The chairs propose a Working Group last-call for this document. Please comment on whether or not you feel that this Internet-Draft should be given to the Area Directors and the IESG for consideration as a Proposed Standard RFC. Submit your comments to the IPPM mailing list or to the chairs or I-D authors as you feel appropriate (although public comments are preferred). This Working Group last call will end on Friday, January 14, 2005 at 17:00 GMT. The comment period has been extended due to the various holidays coming up. One pointer for the document is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt. The chairs, Matt & Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 20 16:31:29 2004 Received: from megatron.ietf.org (megatron.ietf.org [132.151.6.71]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10590 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgUsO-0006mU-M9; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:15:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgUWw-0002yA-Tr; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:53:23 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA03489; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:53:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412202053.PAA03489@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:53:20 -0500 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A One-way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) Author(s) : S. Shalunov, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2004-12-20 With growing availability of good time sources to network nodes, it becomes increasingly possible to measure one-way IP performance metrics with high precision. To do so in an interoperable manner, a common protocol for such measurements is required. The One-Way Active Measurement Protocol (OWAMP) can measure one-way delay, as well as other unidirectional characteristics, such as one-way loss. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-20154853.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-owdp-14.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-20154853.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart-- From adqtev@siderel.com Tue Dec 28 13:04:57 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14165; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:04:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CjLtA-0000i5-7q; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:16:21 -0500 Received: from 223211.rjo.virtua.com.br ([200.179.223.211]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CjLi4-0007Yy-G7; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:04:41 -0500 Received: from cairo.anu.cameron.au ([203.24.124.128] helo=anu.demo.au) by smtp7.recherche.co with esmtp id 1A5Ys6-547155-24 Message-ID: Sender: freeradius-devel-adqtev@siderel.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:59:41 -0100 From: "Lena Wesley" To: ippm-archive@ietf.org Subject: New Year in good health Arthur X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Offshore pharm wish you all best in New Year! 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